Loading...
1993 05 10CHANHASSEN BOARD OF EQUALIZATION AND REVIEW SPECIAL MEETING MAY 10, 1993 Mayor Chmiel called the continuation of the Board of Equalization and Revlew meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.. MEHBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilman Mason and Councilwoman Dockendorf HEHBERS ABSENT: Councilman W~ng and Councilman Senn STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt and Roger Knutson COUNTY ASSESSORS PRESENT: Orlln sharer, Ann Wise and Steve Just Mayor Chmiel: Orlin, do you have any opening statements that you'd iike to make? Orlln Shafer: You ulll notice on your handout that the lavender colored sheet, or purple has, most of those or all of them have been contacted and they've agreed to whatever those numbers are. The white sheet wlth...ls yet to be acted on. Those people could not be reached... Mayor Chmiel: They have the opportunity, and of course we have the opportunity to review it as well...to make any adjustments as we see. And that's if those people st111 are not content or happy wlth the decision that's made, they still- have an opportunity to go before the County Board. And that County Board meeting is when? Orlln sharer: June 17th and if you call ina couple days ahead and get on the agenda. Councilman Mason: I noticed the hand written corrections. The homeowners are in agreement wlth the hand written corrections? Orlln Shafer: Yes. Councilman Mason: Okay. Steve Just: There's just the one on that one page. Councilman Mason: Well there's a couple on the second. I wanted to yeah, that's flne. (A comment was made from the audlence that was not heard on the tape.) Mayor Chmiel: It's all public information. I don't see why not. Is your name 11sted on here? Resident: I don't know yet... Board of Equalization and Review - May 10, 1993 Mayor Chlniel: Yeah, the ones that weren't are the ones that are on this other page. Orlin, on the second page, on the white one that we have. They show Richard Ersbo which was $6,200.00 and that was $100.00. Is that correct? Ann Wise: That's Wallace Otto I believe. Steve Just: Both of those are Wallace properties. Ann Wise: Both Otto properties. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Those are Timberwood properties I believe? Steve Just: Right. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. And those are true clarifications or true numbers now? The hand written? Okay. Is there anyone at this tlme that wishes to come before the Board wlth anythlng they may want to say at thls tlme? Randy Koski: We're under the non-agreement list. Todd Gerhardt: This is your opportunity. Councilman Mason: Come on down. Randy Koski: The Reference Number is 48-93. Mayor Chmiel: Randy and Jennifer Koski. Randy Koski: Our assessment had gone up to $149,200.00. After talking to Ann Wise at the offlce that they dropped it to $147,200.00 and after dolng as many studles as we could flnd all around our neighborhood, we can't flnd anythlng comparable that's even close to that value. We found our neighbors at $127,600.00. All the others are around $130,000.00-$135,000.00. For more land. More bedrooms. !~'~ space. I had talked to Ann and I believe she told me they originally came up wlth $134,900.00 for our's but back in the office, after discussing it, they declded on adding $14,300.00 to the value to make it $149,200.00. We st111 feel it should be somewhere in the Orlin Shafer: Is it correct Randy that you paid $155,500.00 for that? Randy Koski: That's correct. Orlln Shafer: Okay. Why d.o you feel... Randy Koskl: Are you golng by market value or what someone paid for their home? When we bought our home we declded we wanted the house and we reallzed that we were probably paying $15,000.00 and maybe $20,000.00 too much but we don't plan to move. We thought over 30 years that's not a big deal if it's the house you wanted. What we dldn't reallze is that the tax would be, we thought lt'd be on the market value of the home, not on what you paid for the house. It's still a 2 bedroom house. Board of Equalization and ReviewTM May 10, 1993 Orlin Shafer: Yeah, I realize that. The reason I'm asking is this then. Your purchase helped set the market. We used your house, when you bought your house, your sale price, your purchase price, helped us define what the houses were selllng for. Not just your house but other houses. Randy Koski: Okay. Orlln sharer: So your house has dlrect influence on why we came to the $149,200.00. Prlor to your remodeling and all those kind of things because you dld all that after you bought the house. So in theory you should be at the $155,000.00 even if you paid too much...makes sense to you or not. Randy Koski: No, it doesn't. I mean, it's still these other houses are larger houses. Hore land and they're in the $130's. Orlln sharer: Are you comparing numbers prior to our review, appraisal of that area this year? Randy Koski: Well it's hard to come up with what you came up with for appraisals. I believe we are. I believe our neighbor that has more land and more square footage is at $127,600.00. There's a few houses on Melody Hlll that are, and Hummingbird that are $131,900.00 for 1.6 acres. We have about .8 acres. Orlln sharer: A half a tenth of an acre more or less isn't going to change it a whole lot. Randy Koskl: Well that's not a tenth. That's double the acreage. Orlin Shafer: I think as my question to Ann and to Steve then would be, how the comparison was wlth the rest of the neighborhood. Ann Wise: It's based on, you know it's a 5 year home. The quality of the construction and what you have in lt. It's just to look at your neighbors and say they're assessed less, there are differences and when I went through the neighborhood, Z went through all the houses and assessed them based on what I found in the homes. Based on their square footage... So really. Randy Koski: Didn't you also tell me that you came up with $134,600.00 but somebody sitting down back in the office came up and added $14,300.00 to the value I mean7 Ann Wise: No. No. For last year's assessment, for '92 I told you we went through and we trended the values in that whole area before, for the '92 assessment before we went through the area for reappraisal. So your value increased from '92 and then for the '93 assessment, that was based on my flndings when I went through the neighborhood for the reappraisal area. So the values changed again. Part of it was based on your new construction and part of it was just based on the market assessment of the neighborhood. Randy Koski: I guess I st111 don't understand what criteria you use when you trend it wlth other homes in the area. Board of Equalization and Review - Hay 10, 1993 Orlln Shafer: We trend, that ls in the off years. We are requlred by law to view a property once every 4 years and I don't know whether this is true for your's but there are properties in the area that haven't been vlewed in 4 or 5 years and in order to play a little catch up bz~:.k on those, we trended. We knew what the market was dolng...so we trended a few percentage polnts of value for those houses that we had not actually looked at in '92. Now in '93 we made it a polnt to look at those in those neighborhoods and those in turn then responded directly to the measurements and the vlewing that Ann and Steve did and adjusted to the current value as established by all sales that took place withln the past 24 months. Randy Koskl: All that's well and good but Z st111 don't understand how our's can be 15, $18,000.00 higher than anything that's close to comparison in the neighborhood. What criteria are you using? Orlin Shafer: Apparently we're not... Randy Koski: It can't be better construction. It's the same construction as the rest of the houses. 2 x 4's and slding and. Orlin Shafer: There must be something that stands out in Ann's mlnd. She does an excellent job and she's not going to single you out. Whether lt's the slze or whatever it mlght be. There's something that's different between your home and another home that's valued $20,000.00 less than your's. Randy Koskl: That's what I've been asklng. What ls the difference? Orlin Shafer: Yeah. There is something. I think that, to resolve that issue ue would have to go back to the records in the offlce and look and see what those differences are. Put some prices...Haybe Lt's the quality. I don't know. Ann Wlse: Your numbers, you know when you have the sheet that you had here. Your numbers were, these weren't the updated values over here. Randy Koski: How does a person find out the updated values? They're not in the record books. Ann Wlse: Yes they are. These are the '93 values. You probably were looklng at the '92... Randy Koskl: But I understand the '92's are ina different offlce. They're in your offlce and '"~' ..-~. s are in the. Ann Wise: Well I look them up in the computer and these are the ones...these are the numbers that I came up with. Randy Koski: St111, I challenge you to show you anything comparable in my neighborhood that's not, they're all $15,000.00 less. Ann Wise: No they aren't. Well here's. Randy Koski: Take 6200 Hurry Hill Road that's next door to me. Board of Equalization and Review - May 10, 1993 Ann Wlse: That's $139,600.00. That's the assessed value of that one. Randy Koski: And how much land is there? Ann Wise: I don't have the records in front of me. Randy Koskt: Oh, okay. How about 6271 Hummingbird? Ann Wlse: I don't have that one here. Randy Koski: See I show that at $131,900.00 and the house is only about 4 years old. 1.6 acres. Ann Wise: ...because I dld do an adjustment there too. I raised thelr value. Steve Just: These are all pay '94 values that we're discussing. Some of them you may think was a '93 assessment but you may have been thlnking that it was pay '93 and that was the '93 assessment. That's what a lot of the numbers that you have on here are. Randy Koskl: Well let's slt down and why don't we sit down and go over the numbers. I mean instead of keep telling me... Orlln Sharer: ...before this meeting. Randy Koski: I've been trying to do that for a long time. That's what I'd like to do. Mayor Chmlel: If I could just interject. I don't know if thls is the forum that I'd like to see take place and I know it's a very testy thing with a lot of people. But I'm looklng at, you said that you bought this for $155,500.00. Dld you put an addition on or do some remodeling? Randy Koski: We put a 3 season porch on that cost a little over $4,000.00, which I did myself. Mayor Chmlel: So that would brlng it up to about $159,000.00. Randy Koski: But by that token, if I would have paid a million dollars for lt, you'd be taxing it at a million dollars saying that's what lt's worth. I mean that's ridiculous. It's still got to be worth comparable to what you could sell it for. Mayor Chmiel: It's normally 90~ of what. Randy Koski: The market value correct. Orlin Shafer: But if you recently purchased the prlce, that is what it's worth. Randy Koskl: No. Orlin Sharer: If you recently purchased the property, you paid market. You set the market.. You paid it. In theory that's what we should have then. Board of Equalization and Review - May 10, 1993 Randy Koski: Then why would you do a comparison with other homes in the area? Or why would you trend it with the other homes in the area? What is the definition of market value? ...Why do they use the word market value? Why don't they just say purchase price then? Orlin Shafer: Because not everyone buys and sells property on the assessment date which ls January 2, so we have. to work both directions from that date on any given year. Right now we're worklng towards the purchase of property up to January 2, 1994. Randy Koski: By the same token, what you're saying what you're saying then, from what I understand is, if I sold that house for $50,000.00 just to get out of this County, that person would be appraised at 90~ of $50,000.00. Orlin Shafer: No. That person would be appraised at market value and that's really what thls reflects. Randy Koski: Well what is market value then? It's not purchase price. Orlin Shafer: It's the price someone would be willing to pay for if it was offered at an arm's length transaction for a reasonable time on the market with undue stimulus, elther negative or pro. You entered that purchase with an open mlnd and knowlng what you want to know. You sald that. You wanted the house. And you agreed that... Randy Koskl: Rlght. That doesn't make the market value of that. Orlin sharer: That is the market value. Randy Koski: So market value is purchase price is what you're saying? Orlin Shafer: For your instance, yes it is. However, when we work it in with all the other sales to establish what we then term market value, whlch we can use against all homes that haven't sold, it takes on a different computation. Randy Koski: Well is market value is purchase price, then I'm talking for nothing here. Orlin sharer: Put it this way. We think you paid too much at $155,000.00 because we have it at $149,200.00. Randy Koski: I have nothing further. That's crazy. Or'lin Shafer: I guess I'm disappointed that this discussion is taking place here. This discussion should have taken place elther in your home or in our office. Randy Koski: I agree. Orlin Shafer: Okay. And I'm not blaming you. I'm questioning my staff why it's taklng place here. Ann Wise: Well I did discuss this... Board of Equalization and Review - Hay 10, 1993 Randy Koskl: And I disagreed. Ann Wlse: And he dlsagreed...but I discussed lt. The porch he put on, you know you have to lnclude your labor and you did add a f£replace and it's large. It's a 3 to 4 season, well 4 season porch right? Randy Koskl: No, 3. Ann Wise: Well, it's got a fireplace in it so I mean it's not a $4,000.00 porch. But we did discuss this before. I went to the house as part of the reappraisal and Z mean I just feel like lt's a falr market value and you don't agree. Randy Koskl: Correct. Ann Wise: We couldn't come to terms. We talked about it a lot on the phone. Randy Koski: So what's the next step in resolving it? Orlin Shafer: I can see where Ann's coming from. I think I understand what she's saytng. She tried to do and explain to you what, how we do our work. You're not understanding it. Randy Koskl: Evidentally not. I'm disagreeing with it. Orlln Shafer: Yeah, you're disagreeing wlth the way we do it or you're disagreeing with the end value? Randy Koskl: The end value. I don't care how. Hayor Chmiel: Still, you have additional recourse to go back to the County Board. Orlln Shafer: You can carry it on to the County Board. Hayor Chmiel: Which is going to be June the-17th. And appeal it at that particular time. But from what Z'm hearlng here now, from what the additional, what your price was for the purchase of the house, plus the additions that you put on, and they come up with that $149,200.00 and they put it at $147,200.00. It seems fairly decent inbetween there. At least that's what I feel, and I'm not sure what the balance of the Board feels at this particular time. Randy Koskl: So it really has nothing to do with the other-houses in the neighborhood? Hayor Chmiel: Okay. We'll discuss that right now and see if there's any conclusion come up with. Michael. Councilman Hason: Well, clearly there is some disagreement and I guess I'd suggest Koskl's, depending on what we do here, go to the County Board with it. From what I'm understanding here, there's a disagreement with how thls ls flgured out. After being on this Board for, I guess this is my third time, I'm startlng to understand it a 11ttle blt better. And it does appear that Board of Equalization and Review - May 10, 1993 $155,000.00 was high but compared to what's been going on, I guess I see that the $147,200.00. No, it'd be $147,000.00 even then? Mayor Chmiel: No, it'd be $147,200.00. Councilman Mason: With the information I've heard tonight and with what I have here, that seems reasonable to me. Mayor Chmiel: I agree. Z think maybe what should take place yet is maybe Koskl should slt down wlth Orlln and see if he understands what the entlrety of this is to be explained and if there's still not satisfaction or justification, then you have that rlght yet to appeal before the County Board. Colleen. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well again, not seeing the property and seeing the assessed values of the neighborhood, it would seem that if the purchase prlce was $155,000.00 plus you're putting on a 3 season porch brings it up closer to $1¢0,000.00 and it's only assessed at $147,200.00. On the face of it, it seems more than falr but then again I'd 11ke to see. Not for me to see it. For the Koski's to see the comparable values in their neighborhood... Hayor Chmiel: Okay. Is that satisfactory with the Koski's? ...yeah, Just sit down and dlscuss that further before the 17th meetlng wlth the County Board. Okay? Orlin. Orlin Sharer: Mr. Mayor, I would like to say this in defense of Ann and Steve. Hayor Chmiel: I'm not questioning that. Orlin sharer: No. No. I had the feeling that we, that that conversation had not been carrled to it's end and I think I understand now that it has. And I want to apologize for puttlng Ann in a bad situation here. I have some concerns for the individual taxpayers as well as my staff. That's where that was... Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Is there anyone else at this time? If seeing none, I'd llke to have approval of the Mlnutes of the Board of Review and Equalization dated A?ri! 19, 1993. Can I have a motlon on that? Councilman Hason: So moved. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Second. Councilman Hason moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to approve the Minutes of the Chanhassen Board of Equalization and Review dated April 19, 1993 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Mayor Chmiel: Being there is no one else who would like to come before the Board regarding the Assessor's recommendation. Keep it open one more time. l~earlng none, I'll call for a motlon to close. Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded to close the Board of Equalization and Review. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The Board of Equalization and Review was closed. Board of Equalization and Review - May 10, 1993 Councilman Hason moved, Councilwoman Oockendorf seconded to approve the following Property Owners who have come to agreement with the Assessor's Recommendat ions: Reference gaIue Number Name PIN Agreed To 1-93 2-93 3-93 4-93 6-93 8-93 9-93 10-93 12-93 13-93 14-93 15-93 16-93 17-93 19-93 20-83 21-93 22-93 23-93 24-93 25-93 26-93 27-93 28-93 29-93 31-93 32-93 33-93 34-93 35-93 37-93 40-93 41-93 42-93 43-93 44-93 46-93 42-93 49-93 50-93 51-93 52-93 53-93 54-93 A1 & 3anine Afflitto Charles & Vicki Anding Melvin & Janet Babatz Wayne & Beth Beckman Donald Beadles Martin & Jan Beukhof James Bennyhoff Bradford Bloomquist John Braden, Jr. Peter Brandt Gary Carlson Gary & Maureen Carlson Joseph & Adrienne Carrica Dennis Clark Herbert Clausen Charles & Tracy Cool Diane Corey Scott Deadrick Robert & Celtne OePauw Robert & Cellne DePauw Dan Ooenges Armin & Nancy Oreissiger Pat & Lila Oriscoll Donald & Rosemarie Oudycha William Engebretson Daniel Fundingsland Ray & L. Hackenmiller Keith Hamberg Thomas Harings Paul & Sharri Harmel Martha Heiberg Char Jeurissen Ruth Kalanquln Herbert Kask Lawrence & Kathleen Kerber James & Jeffrey Kertson J. Donald Knight Gregory & Dawn Kortuem Thomas Lauby Donald Leivermann Ralph Livingston Gary McCauley 3.B. McKellip Tony Misslin 25.5500270 25.4800020 25.0033800 25.6710060 25.8590240 25.4950550 25.6150070 25.8590290 25.3900020 25.8940020 25.7700070 25.5080130 25.6100010 25.0034830/ 25.0041211 25.0023700 25.8500071 25.4200110 25.2730650 25.6710050 25.6710020 25.2730360 25.7930050 25.1990100 25.264OO1O/ 25.2640020 25.3000780 25.2000850 25.5500190 25.3100091 25.4950410 25.33OO11O 25.4810160 25.4020010 25.3930120 25.0011200 25.0021000 25.0051500 25.6600280 25.1860030 25.4200250 25.2300300 25.5150100 25.6300020 25.4950750 25.4060720 $112,400.00 $210,500.00 $ 62,900.00 $ 76,000.00 $108,200.00 $108,200.00 $102,900.00 $102,400.00 $ 96,900.00 $343,300.00 $175w500.00 $128,000.00 $190,800.00 $203,800.00 $ 24,100.00 $127,000.00 $ 90,900.00 $161,600.00 $115,700.00 $ 99,400.00 $ 98,000.00 $128,400.00 $252,600.00 $ 90,000.00 $ 25,000.00 $ 5,000.00 $104,700.00 $ 89,500.00 $128,000.00 $111,600.00 $ 88,800.00 $267,000.00 $ 96,200.00 $109,400.00 $ 46,000.00 $ 83,900.00 $ 63,900.00 $ 77,900.00 $184,200.00 $1i9,800.00 $110,000.00 $224,000.00 $ 91,800.00 $121,500.00 $190,000.00 $170,000.00 Board of Equalization and Review - May 10, 1993 Number Name PIN Value ~_greed To 55-93 56-93 S7--93 S9-'93 ~1-93 62-93 04-93 ~o-.93 69-93 70-93 71-93 72--93 73--93 74-93 75~-93 77-.93 78-93 79--93 Dana Nicholson Donald M. Oelke Douglas & Darlene Olsen Mark & Kathy Paulsen Ward Allen & Sandra Putnam Quad Star Prop/T. Rashberger Irving Raymond Robert Reutiman Robert & Linda Sathre John Schevenius Michael & Joan Skallman Merrill Steller Richard Steller Klm & Michelle Stern Douglas & Sherry Swanson John & Jane Thielen Charles Velure Bean & Margaret Wieber 25.6150200 25.0022700 25.8710150 25.2620100 25.8450030 25.1920020 25.8400030 25.1100130 25.7660030 25.6880010/ 25.6880040/ 25.8070270 25.4810070 25.7500030 25.6030020 25.6040230 25.3100030 25.6800010 25.604O18O 25.8650190 $ 85,200.00 $105,900.00 $199,000.00 $150,500.00 $130,600.00 $710,000.00 $113,800.00 $126,800.00 $204,500.00 $ 84,900.00 $ 90,900.00 $101,500.00 $180,000.00 $132,600.00 $ 97,800.00 $139,000.00 $169,700.00 $243,800.00 The following are Property Owners who have not come to agreement with the Assessor's Recommendations: Reference Assessor's Number Name PIN Recommendation "93 7-93 11-93 Mlchael Bomstad 25.6030110 13-93 Michael & Kathryn Clark 25.6790010 30-93 Rlchard Ersbo 25.8830010 36-93 Wallace Otto 25.8520390/ 25.8520400 30-93 Gary Hiltbrand 25.2730600 39-93 Per Jacobson 25.5050340 45-93 Arthus Klmber 25.5050060 48-93 Randy & Jennlfer Koskl 25.5450140 58--93 Arthur & Jane Partridge 25.5450050 60-93 Herbert Pfeffer 25.5050350 63-93 Timothy & Julie Rainey 25.2850020 65-93 Stewart & Karen Reamer 25.6810020 67-93 Thomas Rode 25.1100030 60-93 Mark & Mary Rogers 25.6150140 76-93 Bruce Swanson & Tauna Holasek 25.2550040 Robert & June Bauer 25.5050150 Beddor Properties - 18 Properties Listed on Letter $103,600.00 No Change $124,900.00 $157,300.00 $147,000.00 $ 100.00 $ 5,000.00 $119,800.00 $144,100.00 $ 89,200.00 $147,200.00 $139,800.00 $163,700.00 $141,200.00 $ 99,800.00 $141,700.00 $117,800.00 $122,400.00 All voted in favor and the motion carried. The Board of Equalization and Review meeting was closed at 7:20 p.m. 10 CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING MAY 10, 1993 Mayor Chmiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilman Mason, and Councilwoman Oockendorf. Councilman Wing arrived at the meeting to vote on item 4, Vacation of Drainage and Utillty Easements for Kyle Tidstrom. COUNCIL MEMBERS ABSENT: Councilman Senn STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Todd Gerhardt, Roger Knutson, Paul Krauss, Sharmin Al-Jarl, Charles Folch, Dave Hempel, Scott Hart, and Todd Hoffman APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the agenda utth the following changes: Oeleting item 9 from the agenda, and addlng under New Business, 6.5-Variance request for a 2 car garage on property zoned RSF, located at 3841 Red Cedar Potnt Drive, Kevin Clark. voted in favor of the agenda as amended and the motlon carried. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEHENTS: PROCLAHATION DECLARING NATIOI~L PU~IC ~ORK$ WEEK, HAY 16-22. 1993. Mayor Chmiel: I'll move on to ltem 2. This is a proclamation declaring Natlonal Public Works Week, May 16th thru the 22nd, 1993. Whereas, the public work servlces provided in our community are an lntegral part of our citizen's everyday lives; and Whereas~ the support of an understanding and informed citizenry is vital to the efficient operation of public works systems and programs such as water, sewers, streets and highways, public buildings, solid waste collection and snow removal; and Whereas, the health and safety and comfort of this community greatly depends on those facilities and service; and Whereas, the quality and effectiveness of these facilities as well as thelr planning, design and construction is vitally dependent upon efforts and skill of publlc work officials; and Whereas, the efficiency of the qualified and dedicated personnel who staff public works departments influenced by the people's attitude and understanding of the importance of the work they perform. Now Therefore, I, Donald J. Chmiel, by virtue of. the authority vested in me as Mayor of the Clty of Chanhassen, do hereby proclaim the week of May 16th through May 22, 1993 as National Public Works Week in the City of Chanhassen and Z call upon all citizens, clvlc organizations, to acqualnt themselves with the problems involved in provfding our public works and to recognize the. contributions whlch public works officials make every day to our health, safety and comfort. Can I have a motion to accept the proclamatlon? Councilman-Mason: So moved. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Second. Mayor Chmlel: It's been moved and seconded. I'd just like to say that, one thing that I'd 11ke to just add to thls, and it does cover it but I always think City Council Meeting ~- May 10, 1993 about wintertime and right now ue can't visualize all that good snow out there. But our streets department really do a fantastic job in clearing, and I mean cleaning the streets. My hats are off to those people. They do a terrific job. What I like about it as well is that ue don't pay them for that overtime. And they know it. They're compensated with tk:' time off. And that's sort of neat because that to them is something important. They can take that during the summertime rather than the wintertime to get their fishing in, unless they're an ardent ice fisher person. So with that I'd like to conclude and say thanks to them from the Council and I'm sure from the citizens of the City of Chanhassen. Councilman Mason: I'd just like to quickly comment. Living in Carver Beach on an extremeiy steep hii1, peopIe marvel that I can get in and out of that, out of my drive and it's due in no small part to the fact that those streets are well taken care of in the winter. It is appreciated. Mayor Chmiel: I drive in other cities and I look at those streets and the conditions they're in and belleve me, we do a great job. We really do. Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to approve the proclamation declaring the week of May 16-22, 1993 as National Public Works Week. All voted in favor and the motion carried. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations: b. Approve Water Obstacle Permit, Minneuashta Ski Club. c. Approve Contribution from Redmond Products. d. Resolution ~3-31: Approve Construction Plans and Specifications and Cooperative Agreement; Authorize Advertising for Bids for TH 101 Turn Lanes at Pleasasnt View Road and Cheyenne Trail, Project 91-6. e. West 78th Street/County Road 17 (Powers Boulevard), Project 92-3: 1) Resolution ~3-32: Approve Traffic Control Signal Agreement with Carver County. 2) Resolution ~93-33: Approve No Parking Restriction on County Road 17 from TH 5 North to Proposed Saddlebrook Curve. g. Approval of Account. h. City Council Minutes dated April 26, 1993 Planning Commission Minutes dated April 21, 1993 Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated March 23, 1993 i. Ordinance Amendment to Winter Street Parking Regulations, First Reading. j. Approve Contract with Resource Strategy Corporation to Prepare an Organized Solid Waste Collection Study. City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 k. Approve Cost Estimate from NSP to Provide Looped (Secondary) Underground Service to the Well Houses Located off West 77th Street and Trunk Highway lol, Project $8-22B. All voted in favor and the motion carried. A. APPROVE GANBLING PERHIT APPLICATI(~15. Councilwoman Dockendorf: I wanted to pull it, and now that Z think of it, I'm not sure we can approve it with 2 people and one nay. Mayor Chmiel: It's majority. Councilwoman Oockendorf: Simple majority on issues such as this? Mayor Chmiel: I believe it is. Roger Knutson: On the gambling permit? Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yes. Roger Knutson: Yes. Councilwoman Oockendorf: Oh, okay. I just want the option to vote no on it. I've stated my opinion in the past about gambling. Councilman Mason: With that I'Ii move approval of item 3(a). Mayor Chmiel: I'll second it. Councilman Hason moved, Ha¥or Chmiel seconded to approve the following gambling permit applications= 1) Resolution ~3-34: St. Hubert's Church, 7707 Great Plains Boulevard. 2) Resolution ~3-35: Chanhassen American Legion, 7995 Great Plains Boulevard. 3) Resolution ~93-36: Chanhassen Fire Department, 7610 Laredo Drive. Nayor Chmiel and Councilman Nason voted in favor, Councilwoman Oockendorf voted in opposition. The motion carried with a vote of 2 to 1. F. APPROVE CHANGE ORDER NO. 3, L~KE ANN PARK RECREATION SHELTER. Councilman Mason: The only reason I'm pulling it is, Todd. Do I assume we're having nothing but problems with ALM BOilders or is this not true? Todd Hoffman: It is true that we had a series of setbacks with ALM on the construction of the shelter building. Most of those have been resolved and we are about 7 days away from completion of the project. So if we get some good weather, we get the sod put in and the bituminous asphalt material put back in there, we should be in fairly good shape. But all and a11, they drug thelr feet for the winter. I never did find out the exact reasons why. They were somewhat disinterested in gettlng up here prior to the beginning of good weather but after that we got things straighten out. City Council Meeting -- May 10, 1993 Councilman Mason: Okay. So I guess I'm kind of assuming ALM might not be working in this city again. Todd Hoffman: That might be a correct assumption. Councilman Mason: Depending, okay. Because it's just, I've seen a lot of stuff about them and I'm just curious but you see everything going along okay nov? Todd Hoffman: At this point, yes. They may receive their invitation to the open house. I'm not sure yet. Councilman Mason: Okay, thanks Todd. I don't have anything more on that. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I did look at that and I did have some of the same concerns that you basically had and Z know it's been a long, tough battle with that. The only thing that I had a question too on that Todd was the fact that you indicated in your first paragraph that ALM and their subcontractor were concerned that in using the same block, the outcome of the second installation would be the same. Was it? Todd Hoffman: They pa) tiJl].y dismantled the wall and they put it up again and they weren't improving their product so that's when we made the switch. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Did we pick the wrong block to begin with? I mean did we pick ugly block to begin with? Todd Hoffman: No. No, we did not. Their original sub took a different job. He was, that particular contractor was much more experienced at installing this wall. Then they picked up a second subcontractor who was more of a landscape person. They admitted their first day on the job that they were kind of learning as they go along, so up went the red flag and so we watched them throughout that process and eventually resolved the situation. Councilman Mason: With that, I'll move approval of 3(f). Councilwoman Oockendorf: I will second it. Resolution ¢93-37: Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Oockendorf seconded to approve Change Order No. 3, Lake Ann Park Recreation She[ret. Ali voted in favor and the motion carried. VISITOR PRESENTATION: None. PUBLIC HEARING: VACATION OF DRAINAGE AND UTILITY EASEMENTS, LOT 9, BLOCK CHANHASSEN HILLS 1ST ADDITION, 8679 CHANHASSEN HILLS DRIVE, KYLE T~D~TROM. Roger Knutson: Unfortunately we don't have a. Mayor Chmiel: We don't have a majority. We have to have 4/5. Roger Knutson: We need 4/5 vote to have a majority sign the petition and we don't have that so you can have the hearing. Close the hearing but you can't decide it. City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: Do you want to see if Councilman Wing is back from his fire call7 Yeah, would you do that. I would like to leave this. I see someone who would like to come forward and offer an opinion. Maybe by that time Mr. Wing will be here. Kyle Tidstrom: My name is Kyle Tidstrom. I requested the release of the easement and in discussing this with Steve Slack, who [ recently purchased this lot from. Lot 15, which was immediately to the west was apparently at one time going to be a park. That got approved to become a housing site. Steve built his house and prior to building the house he granted a new easement to the city. I have copies of that here if you'd like to look at it. And essentially that gave the city all access into that land there that the easement that I'm asking be vacated was utilized for. So. it seems that the easement is no longer of particular use to the city and it would be right near or in where I'd like to place a house. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Our staff does not disapprove of this? They have made their recommendation on it but we still need a 4/5 majority to vote on this in order to pass it. Maybe what I'll do is carry this over. I don't want to close this Roger. I can carry this if I go to the next item? Roger Knutson: Sure... Mayor Chmiel: Okay, good. We'll move on then to item number 5. If you'd like to sit around and see if we have a 4/5 majority. PUBLIC HEARING: VACATION OF DRAINAGE AND UTILITY EA$[HENTS IN OUTLOTS B, C, D & E= WILLOW RIDGE, PRO3ECT Public Present: Name Address Brian Olson Lundgren Bros. Mayor Chmiel: I would like to open this public hearing, and Dave. Dave Hempel: Thank you Mr. Mayor. City staff has received an application and petition from Lundgren Bros to vacate drainage easements and drainage utility easements in Outlots B, C, 0 and E, Willow Ridge Addition. This vacation request is a result of an existing U.S. West Telephone easement that intersects the outlots in Willow Ridge Addition. Lundgren Bros recently replatted these outlots into Willow Ridge 2nd Addition and therefore in order to keep the priority of U.S. West easement rights intact, the underlying easements with the 1st Addition will have to be vacated and will be replatted with the 2nd · . Addition. Another reason for the vacation request is the underlying U.S. West easement intersects some buildable lot areas and also the city's proposed drainage pond. So with that, staff recommends the City Council approve Vacation Request ~93-3 to vacate the drainage easements and drainage utility easements on Outlots B, C, O and E in Willow Ridge. Roger Knutson: Maybe if I could just ask. Does Lundgren Bros own Outlots B, C, B, and E actually? City Council Heeting - Hay 10, 1993 Dave Hempel: They do and there also may be another owner. Underlying owner. Roger Knutson: Is there a Contract Purchaser? Dave Hempel: I believe so, yes. Roger Knutson: Is someone here? We're just trying to establish whether we need a 4/5 vote. You're the fee owner? Then you can act. Hayor Chmiel: Good. Is there anyone else wishing to provide information? If seeing none, I would ask for a motion to close the public hearing? Councilman Mason moved, Counciluoian Dockendorf seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed. Councilwoman Dockendorf: I move approval of vacation of 93-3 to vacate drainage easements and drainage and utility easements in Outlots B, C, O and E, Willow Ridge. Hayor Chmiel: Is there a second? Councilman Hason: There is a second but I just noticed here. Hayor Chmiel: Discussion. Councilman Hason: Second. Discussion. Here it says 91-14 and. Councilwoman Dockendorf: What's 93-3? Councilman Hason: Up on the top it says 91-14. Hayor Ch~)i~!~ It says 91-14 on the Council agenda and 93-3. Dave Hempel: Hr. Hayor. That number at the top is an engineering project number 91-14. The actual vacation request is 93-3. Hayor Chmiel: Okay. So it's one in the same but two different? Dave Hempel: That's correct. Resolution ~3-38: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve Vacation Requestion ~3-3 to vacate drainage easements and drainage and utility easements in Outlots B, C, D and E, WillouRidge. All voted in favor and the motion carried. VACATION OF DRAINAGE AND UTILITY EASEMENTS, LOT 9, BLOCK 1, CHANHASSEN HILLS ADDITION, 86?9 CHANHASSEN HILLS DRIVE, KYLE TIDSTROM (Co~'t). Mayor Chmiel: I still don't see my 4/5 yet. Councilman Hason: You know could, I'm planning on voting for approval on that and I wonder if we could just discuss that and assume we can strongarm the 4th City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 person to show up. Mayor Chmiel: As soon as he gets here. We have a Councilman who serves on the Fire Department and I think he was called out on an emergency and hopefully we thought he was going to be back by 7:30 but due to circumstances beyond his control, he's probably somewhere inbetween. Yes, let's go back to item number 4. Is there anyone else wishing to discuss this? Seeing none, then I would. Robert's Rules is that if I close this, then the discussion by Council, is that acceptable then if he were to come in late? Roger Knutson: Oh sure... Mayor Chmiel: Very good. Councilwoman Oockendorf moved, Councilman Nason seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the ~otion carried. The public hearing was closed. Mayor Chmiel: Discussion. If you'd like to go through the process. We can talk for a few minutes. I don't like to stumble around here but unless someone has heard some good jokes we can tell over the air. Councilman Mason: Oh well, if it's over the air. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well, if we're off the topic. There was a very interesting artlcles in the paper today about citizen's participation in the governmental process from both points of vlew. I found it very interesting and I was surprised at a lot of our neighboring communities that cut short cltizen participation by 11miring the amount of time that they could speak at the microphone and I'm happy to say that that is not the case in Chanhassen. Mayor Chmlel: Thank you. I believe if someone has something to say, you say it and listen, which is even better. Councilman Mason: I was going to ask for a couple minutes of the Council Presentation but as long as we're here. In the Administrative Section there's a memo from Scott Hart to Don Ashworth talking about Adam Stepney who is one of our CSO's who received a very ntce note from a very concerned owner of a dog who apparently had been lost for a while. And the dog was found and our CSO was, according to the note, very pleasant. I'll continue anyway. It's nice to know that clty employees treat people the way they should be treated and I will blow the horn for the city of Chan. I'm glad we have people like that working for us. Pass that along w111 you Scott. That's real nice. That is an important part of the process I think. Well, Councilman W!ng. Mayor Chmlel: Okay. I have just explained to Richard where we're at with this particular point. We're ready to take a vote. I know you've already read your Mlnutes as well as all the other 1rems in here. Councilman Wing: Was there any discussion on this item? Mayor Chmiel: Ah no. There's not been any discussion. It's pretty much a cut and dry situation of providing the easement back to the existing property owner. City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 So if you have any other questions on that. Councilman Wing: No. This one was pretty straight forward with me. I didn't think it'd be a discussion item. Mayor Chmiel: Very good. With that, I will then call a question. Resolution ~93-39: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Hason seconded to approve Vacation Request #93-2 to vacate drainage and utiiit¥ easements as shown on the attached resoiution with the foIIowing condition: 1. The applicant shall be responsible for any Attorney and recording fees associated with the vacation. All voted in favor and the motion carried. AWARO OF BIOS: WEST 78TH STREET DETACHHENT ANO OOWNTOWN IHPROVE.ENT PROJECT 92-3. Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. Thls past Frlday blds were received and opened for the West ?8th Street Detachment and Downtown Improvement Project 92-3. A total of four blds were recelved wlth the low bid being submitted by C.S. McCrossan Construction Inc. at an amount of $2,623,148.48. The engineer's estlmate for this project was approximately $2,591,000.00. The bidding for this project was very competitive. As you'll note that there was only $60,000.00 difference between the low and the high bid. That's approximately 2/10 of 1~ of the contract amount so that's a very tight bidding group there. All the bids were revlewed for accuracy and the references were checked on C.S. McCrossan. It should also be noted that C.S. McCrossan was the low bldder and awarded the contract for thls summer's Trunk Hlghway 101 North Leg Improvement Project. This project involves signals. It involves improvements to a State Ald route and also a connection to a trunk highway so we've had to submit these plans and work with a number of different lnter departments within MnOot to get approval. More so than your normal standard State Aid project. But we flnally recelved review comments back from all those different departments within MnDot. The revisions they're requiring are, technically speaking, minor revisions which we wlll make and resubmlt the plans for their flnal revlew and approval whlch we expect will occur in the next, probably the next 2 weeks. So therefore an effort to keep the project moving wlthln the time constraints that we have, for gettlng it done thls summer, we would, staff would recommend that the Council award the West ?8th Street Detachment and Downtown Improvement Project 92-3 to C.S. McCrossan Construction Inc. at a contract amount of $2,623,148.48 contingent upon receiving MnDot's State Aid approval. Mayor Chmlel: Okay. Thank you Charles. Along wlth that, I'm sure you're golng to do that. We will as well inform all the adjacent businesses to West ?8th Street as to the construction schedule. Our timeframe. The accessibility to thelr businesses. Making sure that we're not going to deter any of their clientele or customers away from them and I'm sure we can, hopefully do that and have an informational meetlng with those people. city council Meeting - May lO, 1993 Charles Folch: Yeah, we're going to try and schedule a meeting either next week or the following week with those businesses so, that's a very good idea. Mayor Chmiel: Any discussion? It sounds like a lot of money, but it's got to be done if we're going to survive in the downtown in our driving habits. And some of the additional widening of the 78th Street as well. And that's a requirement because of many of the discussions that we've had entailing the emergency vehicles, the accessibility and making those turns and some of the other vicom. Excuse, is that the right term? Councilman Wing: Opticom? Mayor Chmiel: Opticom. I was close. So that they're able to automatically able to change those lights as they're coming to the intersections so they can have clear sailing through rather than dodging traffic and darn near getting hit in many instances. So with that I would, any discussion? Hearing none I'll call the question. Resolution ~1~3-40: Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to award the West 78th Street Detachment and Downto#n Improvement project 92-3 to c.s. NcCrossan Construction Inc. at a contract amount of $2,&23,148.48 contingent upon receiving NnDot's State Aid approval. Al! voted in favor and the motion carried. VARIANCE REQUEST FOR A 2 CAR GARAGE ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF AND LOCATED AT 3841 RED CEDAR POINT DRIVE, KEVIN CLARK. Mayor Chmiel: Kevin Clark was here. We did not have a full Board of Adjustments and Appeals and therefore refer to Council. The 2 people who sat on approved it but we do need finalization by City Council on this. Are there any discussions? If hearing none, I wtll cai1 a question. Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Oockendorf seconded to approve the Variance Request for a 2 car garage on property zoned RSF and located at 3841 Red Cedar Point Drive. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PRELIMINARY PLAT OF A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT FOR 93 ~IN6LE FAMILY LOTS; AND A WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT TO CREATE HOLOING PONDS, LOCATED EAST OF POWERS BOULEVARD AND SOUTHWEST OF LAKE SUSAN; LAKE SUSAN HILLS 9TH ADDITION, AROUS DEVELOPMENT. Public Present: Name Address Peder Olson Jim Pehringer Dale Lewis Lisa Thompson Robert Smlthburg Ron Isaak Phil Jungbluth Wayne Tauer 8635 Chan Hills Drive No. 1010 Lake Susan Hills Drive 1020 Lake Susan Hills Drive 8665 Chan Hills Drive No. 8657 Chan Hills Drive No. 3459 Washington Drive 3459 Washington Drive Pioneer Engineering City Council Heeting -- Hay 10, 1993 To;~, ~renner Joe Hiller Homes Dick Anderson 1030 Lake Susan Hills Drive PeLe Kurth 1040 Lake Susan Hills Drive David 9uinzon 1071 Lake Susan Hills Drive Paul Krauss: Jo Ann Olsen is sick tonight so in her absence I'll try to wing this one. The current proposal represents the last phase of the Lake Susan Hills PUD that was initiated in 1987. The original proposal for the 9th Addition that was brought before the Planning Commission in Hatch called for creating 91 single family lots on a 7&.? acre site with plans that generally followed the 1987 concept. Now that concept in large part dictated the street ]ayouts, the use of the property in terms of single family homes, lot sizes, and park dedication requirements. A lot of this project is guided by previously agreed upon dedications of public open space. From the outset, preservation of trees was an extremely important factor with this proposal. There's a very significant stand of mature trees found on the site and it's been a major concern of staff's, the Planning Commission, and area residents since the start. The Planning Commission reviewed the item in March and tabled it to allow time for further research and modification to include tree preservation. There was some peripheral issues related to the validity of the underlying PUD contract but the primary emphasis was on tree preservation issues. When the plans were brought back before the Planning Commission in April, they incorporated some really significant modifications designed specifically to improve upon tree preservation. These included the unusual measure of requiring homes to use sanitary sewer ejector pumps. In the case where grading to the rear of the homes where the gravlty line would have otherwise been located would have resulted in additional tree loss, they were required to install ejector pumps to eject the sewage back out to the street and eliminate the need for grading. In addltlon there are a number of lots where mass grading, as has been the norm elsewhere in thZs development is prohibited. That the lots have to be graded on a custom grading basis. That one of the streets, and I looked for qulte a while to try to find the most accurate, up to date transparencies and I'm not sure I succeeded but one of the streets to Crane Circle which lntruded into the tree 11ne has been eliminated and the lots reconflgured to save the significant stand of trees in that area. The developer, and this lsa first for us, is also belng required to develop a woodland management plan by a Certified Forester. And that will help to, and they'll work on a lot by lot basis to assure that tree preservation ls maximized. In addition, we've got so much information on thls one, and such a detailed effort has gone into it, we've actually been able to specifically state which trees on whlch lots are permitted under the PUD to come down and which aren't. While it's clear that the development process results in some tree loss, staff ls comfortable that all reasonable means are belng employed to protect our community's resources. The Planning Commission strongly supported these initiatives and most of the residents who spoke at earlier meetings seem to agree and be comfortable with the current proposal. Other issues pertaining to the plat have been explored and have either been resolved or will be dealt with by appropriate conditions. There is one exception however. The Publlc Safety Department has, in the course of reviewing thls project recommended, reviewed the street names and recommended that the Lake Susan Hllls Drlve be renamed due to some confusion wlth the street as it extends east and west across Powers Boulevard. The Plannlng Commission agreed ulth the Public Safety Department's orlglnal recommendations in this area. However, I was talklng to Scott Hart this afternoon. There's been some meetings wlth the residents and Scott, maybe I can let you f111 in the detall on that. 10 City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 Scott Hart: Originally the Building Official, the Fire Marshal and myself took a hardline stance that that street should be renamed. We sent out a notice to the residents that are living there now that would have to change the name of the street. I think there was 9 homes that uould have to change their addresses and we had a very good response. We set up a meeting here in the Council chambers some time ago and explained our position and we had an officer here as well. We explained our concerns and the potential safety concerns and we really had a good exchange of information that night and perspectives and worked on trying to meet somewhere in the middle. Our concern obviously is we don't like having a street run that long where there's two different ways to get to it because it doesn't meet the grid system of addresses. The concern of the residents was that it would be an expense and an inconvenience and even a possible safety concern to change the street name after they've already had all of their subscriptions, newspapers, investments, bank accounts, with one address and even taught their children that street name for a 911 emergency. We basically invited them to help us come up with some alternate ideas and they did. Basically by putting signing monuments or some kind of directional signing out front that would be large enough to let emergency responsers know that you'd have to go one way or the other. I'm not concerned about our fire department finding the right location. I'm not concerned about the deputies and officers that generally work Chanhassen but we do have deputies that are assigned to Chanhassen to fill shifts that aren't familiar with town and could possibly get confused. We do have ambulance personnel that are not in town a lot and in the case of a mutual aid call, it is a possibility that we'd be bringing in fire equipment from other jurisdictions that would be relying on the grid system of the map that this particular roadway doesn't correspond to like the rest of the areas in Chun. With that all said, we asked for some ideas. They came up with them. In a perfect world this wouldn't have slipped through. I will say that I think that none of us on the current staff are responsible for the fact that this street configuration and naming came'in. This was okayed by people long before us. Now we have checks and balances to prevent this from happening. Well we intended, as I began this commentary on by saying that we intended to take a very hard line stance. After we listened to what the residents wanted, we took the position that while we, our first recommendation would be to change the street name. If the residents that are there are willing to accept and understand what little risk may be there, and I'm not sure there's much of any, and they were able to very positively come forth with some alternatives that would work, that we would withdraw our strict position that that street name be changed and go along with the alternatives they came up with, which we're comfortable with. Paul Krauss: So with that Mr. Mayor, there still is a condition carried forward from the Planning Commission that that street name change occur so we'll leave that up to you to do with it as you see fit. As I say, we do believe that we have a pretty well designed project here that was extremely responsive to the major issues that were raised and we are recommending that it be approved with appropriate conditions. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you Paul. Is the applicant here? 'Is there anything that you'd like to say anything more than what Paul has said? Phil Jungbluth: Just a couple of things possibly, yeah. 11 City Council Meeting -- May 10, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: Okay. If you'd like to come up to the microphone please. Phil Jungbluth: Mr. Mayor, Council. My name's Phil Jungbluth with Argus Development. 3459 Eagan. Washington Orive in Eagan and I just wanted to say just a few things and I think they're positive things about the PUD that we've been developing over the past several years. Number one, it was a good plan to begin with and it still is. We have made modifications all along the way over the years and everytime they've been for the better and they followed all the pertaining and current city ordinances over that period of time. In this particular 9th Addition of Lake Susan Hills, I just want to point out that we are providing over 35 1/2 acres of parkland with this PUO and with this 9th Addition that wouldn't exist without it. Along with many trails that the city I know has been planning on and desiring and waiting for' fo;' several years. When we have talked about custom grading lots, we do mean to the nth degree. Only the streets will be graded and then on a lot by lot basis wherever there are trees, we w111 be worklng diligently wlth a forester to save the trees that are there. We will be working with the city staff to make sure that we are preserving every tree that can be preserved above and beyond what may even have been required. Additionally I'd like to state that we take it very seriously and have hlred an award winnlng architect from the Twln Clties to work wlth us with the individual landowners on those particular lots. So we take it seriously. We know lt's an important lssue and we want you to know that we're doing our best and have done and have worked very closely with the city and they've been very helpful wlth us to make all thl$ come about. I'd 11ke to point out that there are some very wonderful trees out there. I don't deny that. We are removing a very mlnor amount of those trees and we will be replacing trees. Along with any development, we also go along and plant trees. If we have 90 lots in the development, whlch ls what we have, that's 90 new trees. Along wlth that we'll be planting trees along Powers Boulevard according to the clty plan. I hope you have a coyp of lt, or landscaping plan but there's many more trees. We're also agreeing to provide a $?$0.00 landscape allowance per lot. We've done that more in the past in the other additions. Up to $1,000.00 per lot in fact. I think that just as an overview, I know that hopefully everybody's had a chance to look at it but slnce the time we started, we have removed ocn~e lots and we've done some major' adjustments to the lots that are present so I hope you realize our commitment to this particular project and our willingness to cooperate and hope that you'll pass this project this evening. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to address this proposal? If you would please, state your name and your address. Robert Smithburg: Mr. Mayor and Council members. My name is Robert Smithburg and I live at 8~57 Chanhassen Hills Orive North. ~ have traveled to many places around the world, developed and undeveloped. What I have found ls that a community's prlde lies in what has been preserved for' the future. Parks, historical landmarks, etc. And on the other hand, how the community is best served by these enhancements. Laws and regulations that enhance the environment in whlch we 1lye are legislated for a better quality of life. Slnce we are delaing ulth potential rlsks and dangers to this fraglle environment, safe guardlng must be undertaken. We are, as a community are lnvolved ina project that encompasses these frailities. The development of Lake Susan Hills gth 12 City Council Heetin9 - May 10, 1993 Addition must be a project that must be frequently and consistently monitored so that the final outcome is something that Chanhassen and it's residents can be proud of. Thls monitoring must be coordinated closely with staff. Failure to consistently and frequently monitor this project will result in irrepairable damage to our ecosystem and the corresponding loss of prlde in the community. We need strlct compliance by contractors involved in this development to insure the best possible outcome. They need to be held. accountable. We would expect that penallties will be assessed for failure to comply with the standards, codes and regulations that are now a part of thls PUD. This lsa must for survlval of a valuable resource and asset to Chanhassen. If complied with and careful consideration ls glven to thls fragile environment, this will be a moo~l development for the future. If not, all the effort, time and work will be for naught. Our concerns must be satisfactorily met. In conclusion, I'm asking you, the City Council to insure that this development meets and will meet the current standards incorporated 1nfo thls PUD to protect this valuable asset to our community, old growth trees; Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you Robert. Is there anyone else? Dale Lewis: My name is Dale Lewis. I live at i020 Lake Susan Hills Drive and I guess I'm asking for clarification regarding thls name change of the street which all of us that I'm aware of that live down there are opposed to. We received a letter a few weeks ago telling us that you were not going to change the name. That you had decided on the alternate of identifying the number span I guess of what's down there. Has that changedlnOW? Scott Hart: No. The letter said that you swayed the Public Safety 01rector, the Fire Marshal and the Buildlng Offlcial to remove our demand. That it would be forwarded to the Planning Commission. Dale Lewis: But isn't that the staff that makes this recommendation? Scott Hart: It's one department. Dale Lewis: Well where do we stand? This is still an open issue then, is that right? Mayor Chmiel: This I think we'll address as we further the discussions here and that is an item number 12 of the recommendations of the conditions. And at least as I look at lt, right now my own opinlon, I've gone through the process of just changing a street number in itself. That is very cumbersome, time consuming, and also costly. They changed everything around and I think some of the things that have been said by Scott, are things that I support. A lot of the concerns of chlldren knowing where they live and what street they live on ls very important. And at least in my own opinion, I aould lobby to leave that street name as basically it ls. I thlnk that's at least where I'm coming from. Dale Lewis: Okay. We have 9 residents down there that will agree with you Mayor. Mayor Chmlel: Is there any other discussion? Lisa Thompson: Is it appropriate to ask questions now? 13 City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: Certainly. l. isa Thompson: ...because I don't have any background information on this. came for another issue but I was wondering what the requirements are. If a certain percentage of trees are removed, is there a formula for the number of acres? How many trees can be removed or how is it that you figure what the right of the developer is? To go in and deal with the landscape. Paul Krauss: Well, if only it was as black and white as a formula. Mayor Chmiel: It isn't, that's right. Paul Krauss: It's really a process wherein, clearly the developer has some right to develop the property. In this case that right was established in 1987 by an earlier plan. We worked with the developer to insure that the tree toss was minimized to the greatest extent possible and there were very significant changes to the plan that resulted. Loss of lots. Rearrangement. 6ondition of streets. There is still tree loss that occurs. Our ordinances do provide on some sort of a caliper inch replacement of what's lost. There are new tree being planted. I mean clearly you cannot replace old growth trees with anything in anybody's lifetime. So the ordinances that we have in place right now very much try '[o just minimize the problem. And in that case Z think they did a very good job in this particular instance. There is a, the City does have a Tree Board that's been meeting over the last month or two in an attempt to develop a new tree protection ordinance. This is a problem that most communities, a lot of communities have grappled with and nobody's come up with a real good response yet. We also work closely with the DNR Forester to develop our tree protection strategies and he's been involved in this extensively. Lisa Thompson: So are there limitations? So if you come in and if you develop the 90 lots and then a year or 2 later shock sets in and then the trees are wiped out and succumb to disease after the development is done, does the law still apply at that point? Paul Krauss: Well it gets very tough. I mean what we do is we try to ascertain the best way of developing something knowing how fragile these trees are. Establishing protective measures under the dripline. Keeping equipment out of there. That sort of thing. If a tree dies 2 years from nov, 4 years from now, it's very difficult to know why it died. So we do everything within, that's humanly possible to keep these trees from being damaged in the first place. At that point, this is long after the homes have often been established that something may happen, or may not happen, and it's very dif¢icult to assign blame and we really don't try at that point. Lisa Thompson: Well that's my concern. That it takes a long time for these trees to die when you start digging up around them so it's possible that the developer can step away. If these trees that are remaining do start to die 4 and 5 years later, he doesn't have any responsibility then to come in and replace them under this, whatever agreement that there is to replace them based on caliper size? Mayor Chmiel: We do take some additional precautions over the long run. We 14 City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 just don't go by what the dripline of the tree is to preserve the roots within the ground. There's additional, is it 15 feet am I correct in saying, of the other portlon of that circumference of that dripline. That we feel gives ita better protection for that tree to survive. And it's hard to say whether the digglng really kllled the tree or if there's an infestation within that tree in itself. By whatever means may attack those trees. Many years ago we, in this clty, we dld not have the protection as we do now. We have taken this upon ourselves to tighten it up as tightly as we possibly can in making sure that when developments occur, those trees belng replaced or taken out, are those trees that are within the roadways or in placement of where that home is going to be. Other than that most, in fact all the other trees do remain. So I might say that Chanhassen ls really taking a stride forward to do the best protection that we possibly can. We have many environmentally concerned people sitting here that do watch that, and not only that but other items within the city including the lakes, the streams, everything else. And we do have one speclflc person sitting on our Council who really watches our trees in itself. Mr. Wing ls well known ulth hls outcries for those kinds of thlngs. Lisa Thompson: Can I ask if the City's doing anything to encourage developers to buy vacant cornfields and it seems like there are so many of them for sale, and promote development of those areas? And if developers say they love to plant trees, why can't development take place in some land that's available that wouldn't cause so much destruction as opposed to taking the last remaining stand of the oldest trees in the city. Does the City do anything to encourage developers to look at other areas? Mayor Chmiel: I think all land within the city of Chanhassen is spoken for. Every speck of it. And everyone has a certain right to develop their property, which they do purchase. Lisa Thompson: Right but, so the City is not taking any stance to encourage development in areas that could use a few trees as opposed to going into areas that are already heavily wooded? Mayor Chmiel: Oh sure. Sure, and it depends upon developments in themselves. Where they're at and where they're located and what they plan on doing. There are a lot of cornfields that will be filled. Councilman Mason: Yeah, and I think in all fairness, there's some of us that don't want to live in cornfields. Some of us are lucky enough to... Lisa Thompson: That's right. Absolutely. Councilman Mason: So I think there is a trade-off there. I know I had a very pleasant conversation with Bob about this whole issue and unfortunately, if a developer owns some land, it's their right to develop it. And I have been at odds with that many times. I think almost all of us have been here. And I think, after going through this and after talking wtth Bob, I'm inclined to agree that the Clty ls doing I thlnk the best we can be doing right now in trying to save old growth trees. We'have some pretty stringent requirements and we may even have some more stringent requirements on those old growth trees before thls sesslon is done tonlght. I mean if somebody owns the land you can't really say, oh sorry. You own the land but you can't do anything with it 15 City Council Meetir, o -- May 10, 1993 because then we have to buy it. If we do that and then your taxes go like that. So ue are kind of caught between a rock and a hard place and I think what we need to do is reach a compromise that will benefit most the trees in that case, in this issue. Because this is a very delicate area here and I think that the terms is a compromise that will best help the environment. Lisa Thompson.' Thank you. Hayor Chmiel: Thank you. Is there anyone else? 3im Pehringer: Mayor. Members of the Council. Hy name is Jim Pehringer. I ]lye at 1010 Lake Susan Hllls Drive and I guess you can predlct the subject I'm goir, 9 to talk about but I wanted to point out that the tone of tonight's meeting as well as the meetlng on Hatch 28th was really emotionally charged. I'm pleased to hear that the residents are very concerned about the aesthetics of Chanhassen and of some of the qualities that have drawn us to thls area. I don't want to underscore %!':e issue of trees. I happen to live right and adjacent to thls new development and have some strong feelings. I wanted to get back to another issue which is probably as emotionally charged to me, having made a purchase declslon to live on Lake Susan Hills Drive and wanted to further I:hat issue, if that wouldn't be too belaboring. And that is about the name change. And I wanted to say that a lot of decisions went lnto the 9 homes that purcl~ased this initial development of Lake Susan Hills Drive and those decisions ~ere based on the location of the road next to the lake and the fact that some of the natural beauty was preserved in the initial aspects of the development. Now the development 5 years later has gone to it's 9th phase or 9th Addition and there seems to be some concerns about the initial layout which I find to be rather dubious. I wonder if there is something else behind the concerns about the safety issues. This layout as I understand has been on the books for a uhi!e and people were aware of it. Z wanted to say that I am not aware of any emergency problem that has taken place and I'm not aware of any documented difficulties. I understand that there are some concerns about it not meeting some grid or some pre-arranged format but the way this city is growing and the development that's taking place, I can appreciate that any new emergency operator or public service employee may not be familiar with the city just on the basis of it's growth. The other thing I wanted to point out and that is that the Lake Susan Hills Drive, which is on both sides of Highway 17, is from my estimation about a 5 to 6 block range and if there is an issue of emergency vehicles attempting to find a particular address, Z think that within a 6 block range in a circular drive, is not a major emergency issue and I will agree that any minute loss to confusion or misdirection is a vltal mlnute but I think we need to put this ina perspective with regard to the 9 residents concerns as voiced by Mayor Chmlel and that is, it can be qulte devastating I think to people who put their homestead down here and made some decisions based on that. Have children. Have businesses in their home to be concerned about as well as the emotional declsion of purchasing a property on a particular street and a particular location. So I underscore your comments and want to relay my concerns about this. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thanks Jiln. Is there anyone else? Dick Anderson: I'm the owner of the property on 1030 Lake Susan Hills Drive 16 City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 and I along with Jim have a lot of concerns about changing the name of the streets. We met with the Planning Commission back in the first part of March, which I don't know if you got a copy of the letter that was sent after that. We voiced all of our concerns at that time. One of the major ones that I think should be considered here is there's a lot of young children that live on that street and to get them to repFogram themselves to a new street address and that could be more of a safety hazard than not changing the name. Like I said, there's a lot of young ones and they've memorized that address so when there's a call coming in, they know the address to give the police or the 911, whatever it is. I also understand that by changing the street name, that could cause some problems wlth the 911 system. We talked with the Post Office and the Post Office was not aware of this whatsoever. They indicated that there could be a delay in the dellvery of the mail by changing the street address also. And I, like Jim there, take great prlde in the name Lake Susan Hills Orive. A very attractive name and that was one of the thlngs that drew us to the area too. So there was other concerns that we brought to the Planning Commission. We thought that his had been resolved and we got a letter to that effect so I'm against changing the name and I think I represent at least 90~ of the 10 households that 1lye there because they've all expressed a deslre not to change the name. And also the two streets that connect with Lake Susan Hills, those people are agalnst changing the name of Lake Susan Hills Drive also. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Could I have your name again please? Dick Anderson: Dick Anderson. Mayor Chmiel: Thanks Dick. Is there anyone else? Pete Kurth: My name is Pete Kurth and we live at 1040 Lake Susan Hills Drive and we too are opposed to this. Initially we had received quite a bit of correspondence from the Clty Planning Commission indicating that this was proposed to change the name of our street and in meeting with the people who had originally proposed this, the safety committee, in talklng through a lot of their concerns, and received a letter from them, had assumed that this matter ~as no longer an lssue. There have been several proposals that we had made as a neighborhood group addressing all of their concerns and again as part of the first subdivision and belng dlrectly sltuated on the lake, it was our feeling that if any group should have a name change that it certainly shouldn't be the flrst addition. Also there was some concern about the financial aspect that we would have to encounter in changing all of our legal documents. Wills. Savings accounts. Checklng accounts. Drlver licenses. None of which had been addressed and again, it was our feeling that after our meeting with the safety committee, that thls was no longer an lssue, only to find out that it had been added to the Planning Commission at the last meeting. I'm sure that there would have been more people who would be here at thls meeting were they aware of the fact that it was an agenda item or that it was being considered again. There are many people in the area and many people in the neighborhood who feel very strongly about keeping the name Lake Susan Hills Drive who do not live on Lake Susan Hills. It's a reference point. Lake Susan Hllls Drive. West Lake Court and because this was not published, they were not aware of the fact that it was an lssue. So I'm sure that many of those people would be here this evening if they knew that it was an agenda item. So I would like to go on record as strongly opposing this. We had made several recommendations to the safety City Council Meet. ing -. Hay 10, 1993 committee in lieu of changing the name and if this is an open item again, to be considered by this and the Planning Commission, Z would like to resubmit those as ~lternatives to changing the name of the street. Mayor Chmie].: I've already made a statement previously before you came in. Pete Ku'r't h: Okay. NaFor Chmiel: I concur with the positions that they have taken on this and I think the Public Safety Department has also reviewed that and is in that same recomn, el~datiol). ~s to leaving it as Lake Susan Hills Drive. Pete Kurth: Okay. Well we were under the understanding that it would be a little bit later on the agenda this evening so we did come a little bit late. Councilman Mason: We're so efficient tonight. Pete Kurth: Okay. Councilman Hason: Something tells me the name won't be changing. Mayor Chmiel: Is there anyone else? Os. vid 8uinzon: My name is David Ouinzon. I live at 1071 Lake Susan Hills Drive and I would just like to go on record as stating that I also oppose the proposed n~me change Lo my street for many of the same reasons that my neighbors have cast forth. Thanks. Mayor Chmiel: Good. Thank you David. Anyone else? I[ seeing none, I'll come hack to the Counc11. RLchard. Councilman Wing: ...digress from trees to street names. Scott, are we talking about 10 homes that are involved here? Scott Hart: That are there right now. Councilman Wing: To say that this isn't a problem, and it isn't going to be a problem is absurb. Thls is openlng a bag of worms for the future and decades to .':.r, me. Anybody that's ever heard of Hurry Hill Road and understands if the Fire Department goes to 2190, it's on one side and if they go to 2202, it's ~ miles away. And a house fire on Dogwood. Separate roads. Fox Hollow. Fox Trail. We respond to Fox and lt's down on the south end. Thls lsa bad precedent to set. I agree with Scott. This klnd of snuck through and maybe we're stuck with it but there's no questlon that the Flre Department is golng to be confused. The police is going to be confused. The ambulances are going to be confused and ~hen you're slttlng on the corner of one Lake Susan and you see them turn ~.astbound wlth your kid choking, it gets pretty frustrating and those seconds turn lnto hours. The fact that some child can't remember his address doesn't justify making an error here. So I agree, it's a real inconvenience and I think it':s unfortunate thls has happened. Thls ls wrong to commlt the clty to decades of address confusion and not fix it right now. What you're suggesting that toe're golng to, the addresses won't be, are you golng to tack on an, if you tack on an east or west, which would solve the problem, they st111 have to change 18 City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 their addresses and all their legal documents. We've still got troubles. How are you going to differentiate whether ue go left or right? Because it's nice, ue can look at a map and maybe if we pull out in an organized manner, spot where we're going but I see a lot of trucks and equipment making wrong turns here and clrcllng around and comlng back on and you won't see it right away. How are you going to differentiate east from west Scott? What's your plan? Scott Hart: What the neighbors or the residents suggested Councilman Wing was to put up larger than normal street signs going into there to indicate which way to where. And agaln, lt's not the best and it wouldn't happen now. We would have intervened long before people were on that road and you've seen us on plenty of prevlous memos in new developments, not additions but new developments where we've gotten into some hot water for taking a firm stance on street names. This one we're just trylng to meet the residents desires ina way that wlll maintain a safety tssue. And I agree with you Councilman Wing. You and I know from our business that you can I could come up wlth plenty of situations where rigs have gone to the wrong spot and they are documented. Here, we're just trying to show good faith in worklng with the neighbors maklng it very clear that this is an issue, but trying to work with them. Councilman Wing: This isn't Lake Susan Hills Drive? There's a clear cut east and west. Thls is like havlng Lake Street in Minneapolis and not differentiating where your at. Are you going to go down bY the river? Are you going to out by Lake Calhoun? Is there a way that the sign can actually have a number so that you know 1100's start thls way and the lO00's go thls way? I mean that really does help a lot. Scott Hart: Yeah. They're presently there but what the residents suggested is large enough signs so that they would maybe even be different than what people are normally used to looklng at, which I thlnk we could work wlth engineering on to come up with something. Councilman Wing: This is the wrong decision but Scott, I'm going to take your word for it. Being it slipped through, I don't wish to penalize the neighborhood. It lsa nuisance and I don't want to change my drivers 11cense much less the other stuff. Alright. Can I go on? Mayor Chmlel: You bet. Councilman Wing: Paul, how many? What would you say the percent of this total tree did we lose? Of this entire forested area, what percent do you think we lost? Paul Krauss: Councilman Wing, I don't have a good answer for that on my finger tips. Maybe if I could ask Wayne Tauer. Councilman Wing: Okay. And we, did we even have the option to throw a tree easement in here? I mentioned this before and I didn't clarify it tn my mind. Paul Krauss: Well actually there is a tree easement in the conditions. I did check after we spoke and there is one outlined on a number of lots. Councilman Wing: Yeah, but we couldn't put the whole thing into that easement. City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 Paul Krauss: Ail the trees? Councilman Wing: Yeah. Was that taking more than we could legally justify? Paul Krauss: Yeah. If you rolled back the clock 6 or 7 years and start with a whole fresh sheet of paper for the entlre PUD, you could conceivably have done things differently. However, our abillty, you know ldeally we know more now than we dld then and we're more sensitive to a lot of thlngs. But a valld polnt was ralsed before that we have as a goverT)mental unlt we have a limited ability to put land off 11mits for development. State statute only allows us to do that for recreational purposes. Everything else we do is kind of nipping at the fringes here and there and sometimes Roger klnd of glves me a wlnk and a nod saying we've gone too far. And so this was clearly established as an area that was going to be developed. Roads were lald out in a manner that wasn't terribly sensitive to the trees being there so yeah. Z mean maybe we could have done a little blt better job had we done that, had the foresight to do lt. However, deallng, using the cards that were dealt rlght now, I think an excellent job is belng done and you really couldn't do it any better glven those limitations. Coul,cilman Wing: So we're sort of in a catch up mode here. We're in the 1990's standards thlnklng deallng wlth 19~0's and ?O's lssues that haven't caught up wit h us? Paul Krauss: In a way. But still you know, we shouldn't mislead ourselves. There were no tools around for us to say, that's a darn nice stand of trees. Let's just forever put a 11n~ ar~:~nd it and never let anybody develop lt. The only way to do that is to buy lt. Councilman Wing: One member of the Tree Board points out adamantly that these are renewable. Not in my lifetime but they are renewable. So let me get down to qulckly move ahead on what I'm having trouble with here. I thlnk you've done the best you could. I think Planning's done the best they could and I guess I don't have a lot of complaints here wlth one exception. Nothlng's been glven back. A $750.00 escrow for sod and trees. That's required on everybody that comes lnto the clty and that's not giving us anything. That's 3est slmply required. And their planning that 90 homes with I tree. As they said at the Arboretum at a seminar several years back, that's the housing and redevelopment's token tree that you have to give. Before you can get a loan from some government agency, you've got to have at least i tree on the lot. He sald if it was~]'t for that, we wouldn't put any in so I don't see this developer glvlng anythlng back. He's taken 25% of the trees whlch is just right. I'm going to argue that. I thlnk he's worked with the city to give as many as we can but what's belng glven back. There was a group came through south off of Lyman Boulevard that automatically came in and put 3 trees on every lot. It was an open area and they 3est felt that was something they wanted to contribute and glve and I think a condition of this pUO, considering the number of mature oaks we're loslng, that the subsequent open lots that are in the cornfields, soybean fields, should have the same 3 trees put in there. Now there you start to glve something back that's not in the ordinance. All you're doing ls meetlng the baslcs and the very minlmum but if thelr case is really working with the city and improving ~his neighborhood, then I'd like to see 3 trees per lot go lnto this being a PUD and we've lost so much. And I guess I have to rely on the rest of the Council's oplnion on that. So my only change I would make here would be 2o City Council Heeting - Hsy 10, 1993 that there be an additional item requiring 2 additional trees over the required 1. That's all. A total of 3 trees from the species list. Placement of the developer. I don't even care where they go but let's start renewing this neighborhood now and let's put it on the developer to do some of that renewal. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Colleen. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well I have a couple questions of staff and they're all over the place. On condition 12. We've got a Mallard Court and... Paul Krauss: ...it had been shown on a preliminary basis and the database just could stand improvement, as I recall. I wasn't directly involved with it but that's my recollection. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Who pays for the woodland management plan? Paul Krauss: The developer. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay. And most importantly in this whole issue is, what are we going to do to insure that the subcontractors. Not the main contractor. We know the contractor is concerned and the developer is concerned about tree preservation, but subs. Subs go in there with a backhoe and we can requlre them to replace it tree for tree but it seems better to prevent any unnecessary tree loss up front. So what can we do to insure that that doesn't happen? paul Krauss: Well that's a very good point because you go to great lengths to do things and somebody goes beserk on a backhoe and destroys it in one afternoon. There's a lot of thlngs we can do and are dolng. I mean flrst of a11, all the trees are going to be clearly identified. There's going to be snow fenclng around it. You really are golng to have to crunch something to be in an area that you're not supposed to be in. There's financial liabilities for the developer should they fail to perform. I'll grant you we can't be out there dogging every subcontractor. We don't have any idea who they are. But we hold the developer liable. We also .have a contractual agreement wlth the developer and we also have something of an element of faith that they will perform as they've sald. We wlll be out there from time to time surveying, or inspecting. Councilwoman Oockendorf: How frequently is that checked? Paul Krauss: Well, with the utility project, our engineering department has somebody out there virtually every day. Councilwoman Oockendorf: And excuse me, there are snow fences put up around to show... Paul Krauss: There will be, yeah. So that's the public improvement project and I think that's the biggest time for things to happen is when the grading is golng in for the streets. That's when we'd have somebody out there most of the time. on an individual lot basis, that's something that will be coordinated with my staff, or our tree person which we'll have an lntern here over the summer, to go out there on a lot by lot basis. We've also got a very excellent report with the Building Inspectors today who have become pretty sophisticated 21 City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 on making sure grading is going in the way it's supposed to. So there is a net that we throw over these things and we've been pretty good at catching the abusers. Councilwoman Oockendorf: That's all. Mayor Chmiel: Michael. Councilman Mason: Before I talk about the trees. Item number 10. If feasible, the applicant shall work with city and county in oversizing storm drainage improvements. What does if feasible mean, because I think it should be done. I think that's pretty important. Dave Hempel: Councilmember, Mr. Mason. We have been in close contact, conversations with the developer on this and also the County and City and County w111 proceed here in the near future in mapplng strategies as far as the storm sewer layout in the area. So thls condition is pretty much a done deal here. Councilman Mason: Okay. Yeah, because it'd be too bad to have to rip all that up again. So good. Mayor Chmiel: I think if we just strike, if feasible. Councilman Mason: I would like to see, in the motion, I would like to see if feasible. Yeah, thank you Don. Okay. The conservation easement. We've done that before. I thlnk it's worked successfully. I thlnk that's really good. With the trees, that fence is 15 feet beyond the drip 11ne? Is that what I understand? Paul Krauss: Councilman Mason, I honestly don't recall what Jo Ann was going to be worklng with but we had the recent recommendation from Alan 01sen, ONR Forester. It is a distance beyond the drip line. Councilman Mason: Okay. I've worked with him on my property and I'm comfortable wlth that. A little counter polnt to Councilman Wing. First of a11, I don't have any trouble at all with 3 trees on lots that don't have any trees. I thlnk that's a good ldea. I guess here again I kind of feel 11ke I'm sticklng up for the developer and whoa, I've got be careful of that. But I thlnk wlth the fact that they are custom grading some lots, obviously showing some concern. I think of some developments not too far from my home where, and thls was 10 years ago. A number of oak trees were just bulldozed over and they said, what the hell. That's the way it is. So I guess maybe they're not giving us anythlng but I do thlnk they're worklng wlth us and I guess I just wanted to stick that in there. I thlnk the custom grading is really good. These ejector pumps w111 be mandatory, is that rlght? On those? I mean thls w111 be a done deal? It's not well, I don't want to put one Dave Hempel: That's correct. On those homes that cannot be serviced via gravity, they will be necessary, that's correct. Councilman Mason: Okay. Also, I had heard some talk about we might be hiring an intern that would be golng to work on this project. 22 City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 Paul Krauss: Well, us're hiring an intern, forestry intern, yes. And this is one of the things. Councilman Mason: That they would be pretty directly involved in and could report back to us? Okay. The last item. Item number 21 in bold face type. Any trees damaged during construction shall be replaced on a caliper inch basis per the ordinance. I think that came back to what was said before. How does the city ascertain whether a tree has been, I mean obviously there's some visible scars. But is there anything that we can do about that? Paul Krauss: Well again it's more, it's almost more voodoo than science. I mean yes. I've seen a number of instances where the bark is ripped off a tree because somebody slammed it with a backhoe. [ mean then it's pretty obvious. it's also obvious when you go out there and you find 6 row of cinderblock piled on the roots. You can pretty well tell that tree's going to have it and you put that on the list as one that's going to go. When an area's been violated, when an area that's supposed to have equipment kept out of it is violated, and then again you have a red flag. Beyond that, it gets real hard to tell. Councilman Mason: I would hope that when the city goes out to inspect that, they really do look. We really do look for more than the obvious damage. I thlnk you're thlnking about well, where the dirt's been piled on there but then moved or the cinderblocks, that kind of thing. This lsa big deal and I think we really need to be really careful wlth it. By reading through this, a lot of work has gone into this and I think once again Chanhassen is doing, ce'rtainly as much if not more than any other community in seeing what we can do to save trees. And to preserve the environment tn conjunction wtth development. I'll just again add, I don't have any trouble at all with 3 trees on the untreed lots. Councilman Wing: Just on that. I guess I would, if I was going to jump the gun after the Mayor has spoken, move the addition of i additional tree to be Iocated in the front yard and cut it down to-2 at this point because of the discussion of what's right and wrong and what should we impose. And I agree with you Mike. It's something I feel strongly about. I would not hesitate to ask for 1 additional tree. That's a token deal for the city. Councilwoman Oockendorf: Well and I thlnk just to tack onto that. Again, like Mike not wanting to stand up for the developer but they are... Councilman Wing: But that's pretty standard. That's not a gift. They're expected to do that. Mayor Chmlel: Any more? Thank you. Thank you. Well, as I've gone through this whole process and as most of you know, I've met with the developer months ago indicating some of the concerns that the city had regarding the first proposal that they had looked at in taking out that amount of trees. Thankfully I mlght add they listened, uhlch is sort of neat. I appreciate that. Knowing that this still is the preliminary plat and planned unit development for these 93 lots, the plans themselves I would 11ke to see signed by a P£. None of these are signed right now. So what's here can be thrown into the little round file but I do want some, well lt's not slgned by a professional engineer accepting that this was all done through his specific work and entailed all those details. 23 City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 And that should be signed. Some of the other things that I had seen. I guess I don't have any problem with one additional tree. The developer might have something that he would discuss. And not indicating as to what that tree would be, nor- in size of what you're talking about with the first tree that is normally put in. Councilman Wing: Well match the first tree. It has to come off our tree list. It has to be what, 2 1/2 inches. Mayor Chmiel: That's correct. I too would still stick by the discussion as I had previously that I brought up regarding that Lake Susan Hills Brive. Rather than renaming it, leaving it at as it is with the support by the Public Safety Department. Some of that can be done with signage on the outside of that with the street signs and I feel fairly comfortable with that. If I didn't, I wouldn't move that particular portion of it. I think rather than to be redundant in saying some of the other things, I too feel comfortable with what's done. A lot of protection has been taken for'. The only other concern that I have is somehow indicating to whoever the prime contractor is who would probably be Miller. To somehow make all subcontractors fully aware as to what conditions are contained within the recommendations for the approval of this preliminary plat and carry ali. the way straight through and I'd like to see that somehow done with a meeting of those subcontractors. 3ust to sit down and come up with that conclusion. I know that in industry we do it all the time and it doesn't take very much. At least everybody knows what ballgame they're playing in. Other than that I guess I don't have any other real concerns with this. I guess I would call for a motion. I'd like to make sure that discussions that we have had during this time should also be incorporated into the recommendation for the Lake Susan Hills 9th Addition. Can I have a motion? Councilman Wing: All I want to ask is that item 22 be 1 additional overstory tree. Councilman Mason: Overstory? Okay. Yeah, I'll have a go at this. I'll move approval to approve Preliminary Plat for Lake Susan Hills 9th Addition as shown on plans dated April 12, 1~93 with the following conditions, i thru ~ as stated in the staff report. 10, delete if feasible. Number 12, delete Lake Susan Hills Drive shall also be renamed as supported by Public Safety Department. Items 13 thru 21 as is. I'd like to add item 22. There shall be an additional tree added to untreed lots and, what did you want to say on that Dick? Councilman WJr::~: It has to be a city. Councilman Mason: With [he city approved. Councilman Wing: Ci[y approved overstory shade tree. Councilman Mason: Okay. Item 22 will be, one additional tree on untreed lots with a city approved overstory tree. Shade tree, excuse me. And item 23, notification to all subcontractors about concern of tree preservation and the consequences thereof. Councilman Wing: I'll second that. 24 City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 Hayor Chmiel: Any other discussion? Councilman Hason moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve Preliminary Plat for Lake Susan HiIIs 9th Addition as shown on the pIans dated ApriI 12, 1993, with the foIIowing conditions: 1. The front yard setback can be reduced to 25' where it will preserve natural features if approved by city staff. 2. The applicant shall enter into a development contract with the City and provide a financial security to guarantee installation of the public improvements and compliance with the conditions of approval. The applicant shall supply detailed storm sewer calculations for a 10 year storm event and pondlng calculations for the retention ponds (NURP Standards) for the City Engineer to review and approve. 4. The applicant shall supply detalled construction plans for utility and street improvements for the City to review and formally approve. All utility and street improvements shall1 be constructed in accordance wlth the City's latest edition of Standard Specifications and Beta11 Plates. 5. The applicant shall be responsible for obtaining and complying with ail necessary permtts such as MWCC, Health Department, Watershed 01strict, PCA and Carver County Highway Department. 7. Ail retention ponds shall include an outlet control structure to control discharge rate pursuant to NURP standards. 8. The applicant shall provide maintenance access routes to the retention pond areas and dedicate the appropriate easements on the flnal plat. In addition, all utility lines outside the street right-of-way shall be dedicated wlth a mlnimum of a 20 foot wlde dralnage and utility easement. Erosion control and turf restoration shall be in accordance with the City's Best Management Practice Handbook. 10. The applicant shall work with the City and County in oversizing the storm drainage improvements to include the future runoff from the upgrade of powers Boulevard. The applicant would be compensated for the associated overslzing costs. 11. The location of ail fire hydrants shall be approved by the City's Fire Marshal. 12. Hallard Court should be renamed to either Drake Court or some other acceptable street name. 13. Five foot concrete sidewalks should also be extended from Lake Susan Hills Drive west to Dove Court. 14. The vegetated areas which will not be affected by the development will be protected by a conservation easement. The conservation easement shall 2S City Council Heeting- Hay 10, 1993 permit pruning, removal of dead or diseased vegetation and underbrush. 411 healthy trees over 6" caliper at 4' height shall not be permitted to be removed. Staff shall provide a plan which shows the location of the conservation easement and the applicant shall provide the legal description. 6enerally the conservation easement shall be on the following lots: Lots 1-6, Block 2. 15. Lots 6-16, Block 3, Lots 1-10, Block 4 and Lots 20-28, Block 5 shall be custom graded lots and the following conditions apply: a. Each of these lots shall conform to the approved custom graded plans. Deviation from these plans which wit]. rssult in more removal of vegetation will not be permitted. b. Each of these lots shall have a woodland management plan developed by the developer pFiOF to issuance of certificate of occupancy. The woodland management plan shall be developed by a licensed forester approved by the city. A copy of the woodland management plan shall be kept in the building permit file and a copy will also be given to the homeowner. c. Each of these lots shall only be permitted to have the following trees removed (these numbers correspond to the tree survey numbers as shown on Sheets 8 and 9 of Plans dated April 12, 1993): Block 3 Lot 6 - 64 Lot 7 - 84, 85, 896, 87, 88, 90, 91 Lot 8 -- 100, 502, 503, 504, 507, 510, 511, 512 Lot 9 - 567, 575 Lot 10 - 582, 602 Lot 11 - 592, 593, 594, 559 Lot 12 -. 598, 626, 633, 634, 635, 647, 648, 649 Lot 13 - 605, 624, 625, 652, 715 Lot 14 - 615 Lot 15 - 606 ~Lot 11ne must be adjusted to save stand of trees Lot 16 - 573 Block 4 Lot 1 - 870 871, 872, 875, 878 ~House pad cannot exceed 50 x 50, must save 863 Lot 2 - 817, 857, 861 Lot 3 - 828, 829, 84O, 841, 519 Lot 4 - 985 Lot 5 - 532, 533, 535, 536, 537, 550, 990, 991, 994 Lot 6 - 587 Lot 7 - 563 Lot 8 - 528, 568, 569 Lot 9 - 616, 626, 627, 630, 637 Lot 10 - 619, 620, 621 26 City Council Heeting - Hay 10, 1993 Block Lot 20 - none Lot 21 - none Lot 22 - none Lot 23 - 911, 914, 917 Lot 24 - 880, 881, 882, 883, 884, 878, 879 Lot 25 - 996, 997 Lot 26 - 570, $71, 573, 578, 579, 580, 581 Lot 27 - 604 %House pad cannot exceed 50 x 50 Lot 28 - 612 16. The landscaping plan shall be amended to provide the following: a. Increased landscaping along Powers Boulevard (CR 17) and internal boulevard and entrance landscaping. b. Improved landscaping materials, with at least 50~ of the hardwoods from the primary specles 11st. c. A plan providing $750.00 worth of landscaping/single family unit. 17. Park and Recreation Commission conditions: a. Dedication of Outlot E to the city; b. Construction of the following trails: 1. An 8 foot wide bituminous trail aoong the west side of Lake Susan as indicated on Attachment B, Segments D and £; 2. An 8 foot wide bituminous trail along the east side of Powers Boulevard (CR 17) as indicated on Attachment B, Segment B; 3. Trail segments A, C and F; 4. Park fees are assessed at one-half the rate in force upon building permit application. All trail fees have been waived as a part of the development of Lake Susan Hills West. 5. The two trall easements identified allowing access to the shoreland tra11 be consolidated lnto one 40 foot easement at the locatlon of the northerly easement. 18. Building Official conditions: a. Indicate lowest floor elevations and garage floor elevations for each house pad on the gradlng plan. b. Submit details on corrected pads including compaction tests, limits the pad and elevations of excavations to the Inspections Division. A general soils report for the development should also be submitted to the Inspections Division. 27 City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 c. OVel'si-..'-! street signs shall be placed at each of the four outlets of Lake Susan Hills Drive on Powers Boulevard. The signs shall indicate the range of addresses on the street. 19. The applicant's engineer shall, provide a final grading plan with detailed house types, elevation and grading limits on all lots. The final grading plan shall also take into consideration existing stockpiled material along County road 17. 20. A condition shall be placed in the development contract regarding maintenance responsibilities for homes with ejector pumps. 21. Any trees damaged during construction shall be replaced on a caliper inch basis pet- the ordinance, Section 20-1178(c)(?). 22. One additional overstory shade tree on untreed lots from the City's approved list. 23. Notification to all subcontractors about concern of tree preservation and the consequences thereof. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE 68.53 ACRES INTO 2 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS OF 2.25 ACRES AND &4.98 ACRES, LOCATED NORTH OF PIONEER TRAIL JUST WEST OF PIONEER HILLS SUBDIVISION, LAUREN[ ADDITION, PAUL LAURENT. Paul Krauss: Thank you Mr. Mayor. This is a somewhat simpler and smaller request. Gl1Laurent is a longtlme resident of this clty. He has a farm in the southern part of the community outside the MUSA line. He's proposing to subdivide his property to create one additional lot that I believe is for his son. It's consistent wlth our rural area standards and Metro Councll guidelines for density. Including some minor changes into the plat in terms of definition of Outlots, it's generally acceptable to us and we are recommending that it be approved. A couple things you should know about the lot is, this parcel is severely lmpacted by future 212. Wlth 212 coming through in thls direction, wlth the realigned I think Bluff Creek Road over there, and a ponding area to be acqulred for the highway. MnDot's aware of this plat. The proposal really does not interfere with anything. Mr. Laurent's been sort of hamstrung for a number of years glven the fact that this is loomlng over his head. The proposed subdivision occurs in an area where it really does no harm to the future road in that regard. The second thing, and I'm not sure that this shows up real well, has to do with the Bluff Creek corridor that traverses the area. Staff and the Plannlng Commission have looked at this and recommended that, the Bluff Creek corridor is identified as a major recreational resource in the city and that creek flows generally through here. Here it gets a 11ttle foggy because lt's in a ~Jetland and it comes up something like that. To protect that creek corridor for future recreational use, we are recommending that a 50 foot easement on either side of that creek for recreational purposes be provided under the plat. And I belleve that that ls one of the conditions that was in the Planning Commission recommendation but the size of the easement was not defined at that time. I had some discussions with Todd Hoffman today and we thought that that 28 City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 would generally do it to the best of our ability right now. One of the concerns we have is a...one when MnOot comes in and acquires the property, MnOot will deal directly wlth'Mr. Laurent. We are not in the loop at that point. We need to have some interest in the property to protect that recreational corridor that we'd 11ke to see come down there. And in fact, given the way hlghway fundlng is these days with hlghways slipping further and further over the year 2000 horizon it seems 11ke, we may well need to bulld this tra11 before the hlghway comes through if the community so demands. I mean lt's becoming very clear that the Bluff Creek corrldor north of Lyman, as it passes behlnd Tlmberwood and up lnto the new school site is very likely to be built within the next few years. So wlth that we are recommending approval of the plat with the conditions as outlined with condition 4 modtfied to indicate that the trail easement is 50 foot on either slde of the creek. Thank you. Mayor Chmlel: Thanks Paul. Councilman Wing: ...easement, is that adequate for what we're trying to accomplish? I mean that's a real narrow strip. Paul Krauss: We're honestly not sure Councilman Wing. In some areas where the creek is very defined, yes. Where it goes through the wetland, it's more open to questlon but at least it establishes the rlght. I should also point out, MnDot thus far has been very cooperative. We've got a pretty good working relationship with them. It's basically to allow us to pre-emptively do something if we need to but the environmental impact study for 212, at our insistence, lncludes bridglng over Bluff Creek so that ue can put a trail underneath it so that's already in the process. Mayor Chmlel: Is there anyone wishing to address this at this time? If not, we'll bring it back to Counc£1. Oo you have any other specifics that you have on that Richard? Anythlng else? Councilman Wing: No. Mayor Chmlel: Colleen. Councilwoman Oockendorf: Nothing. Mayor Chmlel: Michael. Councilman Mason: No. Councilman Wing: Move approval. Councilman Mason: Second. With the addition of the 50 foot easement. Councilman Wing: Oh excuse me. I missed that Mike. I failed to catch that. Mayor Chmiel: On item number 4. 29 City Council Meeting -- May 10, 1993 Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the Laurent Addition Preliminary Plat #93-7 to create two single family lots as shown on the plans dated Hatch 22, 1993, and subject to the following conditions: 1. The applicant shall dedicate on the final plat a 50 foot wide corridor for County Road 14 (Pioneer Trail). 2. Proposed locations for the on-site sewage treatment sites should be submitted to the Inspections Division for review and approval prior to final plat approval. 3, The applicant shall receive access, approval from Carver County for a driveway to t. ot 1, Block 1. Park and trail fees will be required at the time the building permit is issued. An 8 foot trail easement along Pioneer Trail shall be dedicated and a 50 foot easement on either side of Bluff Creek for recreational purposes. The applicant shall dedicate on the final plat drainage and utility easements over all ponding and wetland areas, including Bluff Creek. ¢. The proposed MnOot highway taking should be dedicated or, at a minimum, platted into an outlot. The appropriate side, front and rear drainage and uti],ity easements should also be dedicated with the final plat. All voted in favor and the motion carried. ACCEPT FEASIBILITY REPORT FOR STORH WATER IHPROUEHENT ON FRONTIER TRAIL (FORCIER PROPERTY), CALL FOR PUBLIC HEARING, PROJECT 93-6-3. Public Present: Name Address Lee Forcier Robert Davis 9597 Creek Knoll Road, Eden Prairie 4010 West 65th Street, Edina Dave 14empel: Thank you Mayor, members of the Council. In conjunction with the city's surface water management program, this is one area that's been spelled out as a very important area to provide storm water quality and quantity treatment when we have an opportunity to. We've been working with the applicant on the Forcier property on developing cooperate or joint ponding facilities with the proposed ? lot subdivision proposed here in the near future. Back in February 22nd, 1993, the City Council authorized preparation of a feasibility study for the storm v~ater improvements on the Forcler property. The feasibility study proposes both water quality and quantity improvements within the subdivision to serve both the individual subdivision and also upstream contributing areas. The City has a unique opportunity here to work with the developer on these proposed water quallty improvements and participate in the cost sharlng for these improvements. The Counc11 item referred to accepting the feasibility report a'nd calllng for a public hearlng whlch ls not totally accurate at this stage. The improvements will be put in by the developer in 3O City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 conjunction with his overall subdivision improvements. The City, the recommendation here is for the City to enter into a joint cooperative construction agreement with the applicant to share the pro-rated costs for the storm water improvements. The feasibility report spells out a cost estimate for these improvements as well as estimated cost sharlng proposals based on the amount of water contributed to the subdivision. $o these numbers in the feasibility report are only estimates at thls stage and wlll be finalized wlth the final construction documents to be prepared with the subdivision comlng forth. With that, we recommend acceptance of the feasibility report and recommend that the City Council authorize preparation of a joint cooperative agreement between the City and the developer of the Forcier property for construction, maintenance and funding of storm water improvements as detailed in the feasibility study. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thanks Dave. In sharing the cost for that 32.8 as you've indicated in here, there's a $15,027.00 of city's cost. Developer's cost, $17,773.00. Now, is there anything that we've left out from that cost estimate, rather than seeing somebody come in and say, well we've got a couple thousand dollars that we're going to have to pay. Dave Hempel: The last minute, the added improvement out there, there.is a ditch sectlon between the culvert crossing underneath Frontter Trail and the proposed pond improvement. We're studying the cost analysis for extending this culvert to the pond to eliminate this ditch section that would be in the front yard of the proposed lot as well as a ditch section along Frontlet Trail. That may be an added cost to this. Mayor Chmiel: At our cost? City cost? Dave Hempel: It would be most likely a 50/50 cost share for that extension. paul Krauss: If I could add something on this. I think this is an excellent example of the dividends that the SWMP program is paying. This is a project that was identified last year by Bonestroo worklng for us as a high priorlty project. They had estimated that the cost for this were gotng to be in excess of, I thlnk it was $100,000.00, because it lnvolved land acquisition. Well, when this just happened to come across Dave's and my desk, we took a look at that. Having already gone through the analysis portion of it wlth Bonestroo and sald, we just fell into a gold mine because now we can get the land for free and the developer to cooperate on the improvements. And I hope it really comes to pass because I think it's going to be a great project that remedies a very substantial problem that currently exlsts for Lotus Lake. We also have the funding available in the SWMP budget. We've allocated funds to undertake this project so there is no need to come up with additional dollars. Unless of course you want to. Mayor Chmiel: No, I don't think so. Thanks Paul. Councilman Mason: Nice try though. Dave Hempel: Mr. Mayor, if I could add one further point for clarification. As Paul mentioned, thls is a great opportunity for the city. It will not satisfy all the water quallty improvements that we need in this corridor. There wlll be 31 City Council Heetin9 - Hay 10, 1993 some additional ones at a future date across [he street. 14myer Chmie].: Okay. Is there anyone here from the Forcier property who would like to address the City? Robert Davis: Hr. Mayor and Council. Robert Davis. I'm representing the Forcier's on this property. There's one comment I'd like to make and I'd like to compliment the staff in working with the developer in studying the report and we've, with our engineer, Sunday Engineering, taken a look at the report and tried to come up with thoughts of how we go to a construction document. 4nd the one item I u]otlld like to leave with you is, the developer's proposing 4 1/2 acres subdivided to ? lots. The developer has a requirement to provide pending for their- own development. There is additional acreage that contributes to the runoff and this pending area. It's our intent to provide the pending for the development and to comply with the spirit of this report but it looks like, in our engineering a[ this point, it's impossible to comply with the exact numbers. I just wanted ~o make sure you didn't have a misunderstanding when you read this and when we come back in a month or two with final documents, that ~e're not me,:ting these requirements. It's not that we haven't taken a good look at it, tried to meet i[ and we've worked with the developer and the consultant. Had some meetings with them. In terms of can we go larger of- smaller and the developer is flexible but the complication we have is that if you comply with the sideyar'd requirement for slope, and the footprint, we don't get enough water volume. If you comply with the water volume and the side slope, we get a bigger footprint. ~nd as has been pointed out, we'd like to keep within the available space between housepads and provide pending for the city's request as well as the developer but I jus[ want to make sure that there wasn't any misunderstanding on the Council's part that we have taken this another step to documents for construction and found that ue cannel meet these numbers specifically. Hayor Chmiel: Have you had discuss:.'.ons regarding that? Dave Hempel: Yes we have Mr. Mayor. Last, late last week we did sit down with the developer and his engineer and did go through the report and we did have some shortfall on (he on site ponding but we believe we've been able to make up nearly all of it with some slight modifications to the pond layout in addition to increasi~g the depth of the pond. So that combination, ue feel confident Lhat we're able to achieve very close to the numbers that ue have reported in this feasibility study. Hayor Chmiel: Okay. 4ny other discussions? Councilman Hason." Just real quick comment. I concur with what Paul said about the SWMP committee and the work that they've done. We've done. Whatever. I thi,',k this is a.n example of more than one group working together. Cutting down costs and accomp].ishing the goal that will benefit LIS all and I say, good deal. Hayor Chmiel: Colleen. Councilwoman Doc:kef,doff: No comment. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Richard. 32 City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 Councilman Wing: Nothing. Mayor Chmiel: I'm going to ask for a motion. Councilman Wing: I'll move to accept the feasibility report for the water improvement on the Forcier property and that's Project 93-6-3. Councilman Mason: Second. Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Mason seconded to accept the feasibility report prepared by Bonestroo dated April, 1993 for storm water quality and quantity improvements on Frontier Trail (Forcier property), Project 93-6-3, and authorize the preparation of a joint cooperative agreement between the City and developer for the construction, maintemance and funding of the storm water improvements as detailed in the feasibility study. All voted in favor and the motion carried. AUTHORIZE PREPARATION OF FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR CHANHASSEN ESTATES STREET RECONSTRUCTION AND DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS. PROJECT 93-10. Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. Some of you may recall that in early 1992 the City completed a pavement management study. That was basically about a 2 year process to evaluate the condition of all the city streets. From that study a draft 5 year CIP was developed. Unfortunately, it wasn't included in your staff reports but I did pass out a copy of that tonlght so that you do have that for some additional background information. The area of hlghest prlorlty from that study, as far as area streets in need of reconstruction was the Chan Estates, 1st and 2nd Addition. In March of this year staff sent a letter and questionnaire to all the restidents in the Chanhassen Estates area. The purpose of this letter was to inform the residents of the results of the pavement management study and to also acquire their input on the next course of action that they would like the city to take. Staff received 53 responses of 128 surveys sent so that was almost nearly 50~ response from the surveys which we were very happy with. The majority, 32 responses, or 60~ of those received back supported that the city move ahead with conducting a feasibility study on this reconstruction project. Another 12 said that they wish for the clty to sklp wastlng money on studies and just go ahead and do the project. Mayor Chmiel: Give me clarification on that part of it, because that's where I'm leaning right now. Charles Folch: And another 4 responses also indicated that with the recent financial situations, they could not, they did not believe they could afford a project wlth any speclal assessments. But in 11ght of this and the majority response, I've asked OSM to prepare a proposal to conduct a feasibility study whlch ls included in the packets. They've estimated the feasibility study to be around $14,000.00 to complete. Mayor Chmiel: Do we have to do the feasibility study, number one? Number two, for those people who have concerns regarding having additional assessments and 33 City Council Meeting -- May lO, 1993 feel they can't handle it, how many years can they put this cost on their tax roil? Charle:s Folch: Basically this project being, likely being a 429 project, we have to follow Statute guidelines whlch of course ls, first step we'd have to conduct a feasibility study and then hold the publlc hearlng accordingly. Ha>'or ChmJ. el: Why do we have. to do a feasibility study? Charles Folch: Well, I guess there's going to be a lot involved with this study basically. Not only just in general terms of determining what we're golng to do as far as the project ltself and wi'mat the cost mlght be, but I thlnk one of the thlngs that we do need to iron out durlng that feasibility study is the methodology of assessment and what klnd of share we're looklng at and what the c:lty carl, would I-easonably be able to take on as a local share. What the share would be to assess. So that that could be presented to the residents before, we.l. 1 at the public hearing or before a neighborhood meeting setting to allow their lnput as to whether they feel from this polnt on that they're wllllng to, or would like the city to move ahead with ordering the project. At this point you really can't move ahead confldentally wlthout going through that process. Roger Knutson: Special assessments are like a cookbook. You have to put every ingredient in or you can't do it and one of the ingredients lsa feasibility report. You've got to have something with that name on it. You've got to have it or you can't go through the process... Councilwoman Oockendorf: Zs there anyway [o do it Charles that we don't spend $14,000.007 It's a foregone conclusion, and those people... Councilman Masoi~: Yeah, and if I could just piggyback on. I mean there are some, I mes,', ,,.3'- !<now, there are some things that we know are going to be done ti'mere. Now, I just got some grief from my fellow Councilman Mr. Wing about ~:ounding llke Ursula Dlmler and to some extent you know, why do we need a feasibility sLudy for on this one? We know we're going to do it. Councilman Wing: No, you used the word 70/30 and I. CounciZman Mason: Oh well, okay. Okay. We have SOnle ideas of how things will wash out here. Z mean is there anyway that you can tell OSM or whoever, look. We need the feaslbllity study. We know for a fact this is golng to happen. So let's just cut through some of the garbage and be feaslble about what needs to be feasible. Co~.tncilwoman Dockendor'r: Or give them a budget. Mayor Chmiel: Let's be feasible. In other words, let's save a buck. Charles Folch~ Well, given the size of the project. The type of preliminary information, studies, surveys that they're going to have to do, this is another p~'oject where we're golng to have to do a lot of hand holdlng wlth the residents to even go through this feasibility process. You can figure at least 2, possibly 3 informational meetings. You can flgure probably 2 publlc hearings. Feasibility hearlngs before we make it through the process. And OSM's been City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 through this before. They've seen some of the other projects we've gone through and so certainly they want to give you an honest estimate as far as what's going to be involved to do this. They'd rather not tell you it's going to cost $8,000.00 and then ue go through the process and here ue are at $14,000.00 and we kind of go, well why did it cost so much. To be able to do this right and to be able to really satisfy the property owners and make them feel confident when we get through this feasibility process, it's going to take a lot of individual effort. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I'd like to make sure that we convey that kind of information back to the residents within that particular area so they know why we're going through the process as we are. And I would like to second pretty much what Mike had said. If OSM can in any way cut back on the cost for that feasibility study, and I could see where they could, I'd like to see that done as well. Charles Folch: Well the billing will be hourly so certainly if all that time is used up, if we don't use the full amount, we certainly won't pay for it. Councilman Wing: I think it's interesting Mr. Mayor. I think that's true. I think most the neighbors are agreeing that their roads are messed up and our project study shows that this has to be done so we have to thlnk visionary long term in saying, that neighborhood has to be fixed. And what it bolls down'to, what we all want to know, how much. So the feasibility study ls only just really trying to come up with how much. Mayor Chmlel: Okay. Any other discussion? Can I have a motion? Councilwoman Oockendorf: I authorize the feasibility study for street reconstruction and dralnage improvements in Chart Estates Subdivision, Project 93-10. Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second? Councilman Wing: Yeah, I'm comfortable with the second. Resolution ~93-41: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Wing seconded to authorize the preparation of a feasibility study for street reconstruction and drainage improvements in Chanhassen Estates subdivisions, Project 93-10, and that OSH be designated as the project consultant engineer. All voted in favor and the motion carried. RECEIVE FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR PHASE II OF UPPER BLUFF CREEK TRUNK UTILITY IMPROVEMENTS, CALL FOR PUBLIC HEARING. PROJECT 9i-I7B. Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. I'll give a brief version of this. Basically this is the second part of this overall Upper Bluff Creek Trunk Utility Improvement Project. This project here wlll extend and contlnue on to provide utilities to development to properties along Galpin Boulevard and west of Galpin and east of Trunk Highway 41. The project was basically petitioned by 3 property owners, Carlson, O'Shaughnessy and the Gateway West/Opus properties. You have the completed feasibility before you tonight. The estimated project 35 City Council Meeting - Hay 10, 1993 cost is a million and a half. The study also includes preliminary assessment tables which predict trunk and lateral assessments to benefitting properties. At this time the projected ultlmate assessment condition yields a posltive revenue schedule for the project to allow the clty to also provide additional service to the area with future wells and water storage facilities accordingly. At this time, i~ ls staff's recommendation that the City Council formally receive thls feasibility report for Phase II of the Upper Bluff Creek Trunk Utility Improvement Project 91-128 and call for a public hearing at your regular meeting on Honday, June 14, 1993 at whlch time the project consultant engineer, Bonestroo-Anderlik--Rosene and Associates w111 provide a detailed presentation of thls feasibility study. Durlng the lnterlm, a neighborhood meetlng wlll be scheduled with property owners who are potentially affected by this improvement project. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Are there any discussions? I might suggest that ue save the report from that. I went through it but I'm just wondering if we should somehow restrlct glvlng a rate reduction from Bonestroo-Anderllk and Associates. Charles Folch: A volume discount? Councilman Mason: And furthermore, they continue to print things on one side of the paper. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, you're right. And I did see that as well. Let's conserve energy. They don't have to make it lo~:k that thick... Councilman Mason: Do we even vote on this one for receiving a feasibility study? Mayor Chmiel: Well I think so. Charles Folch: Formally call a public hearing. Hayor Chmiel: Can I get a motion to receive this feasibility report for Phase II of the Upper Bluff Creek Trunk Utility Improvement and call for a public hearing 1993, Project 91--17B9 Councilman Mason: So moved. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Second. Mayor Chmiel: It's been moved and seconded. Discussion. Councilwoman Dockendorf: I think these projects we make money on. That's all I want to say~ Resolution ~93-42: Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to receive the feasibility study for Phase II of the Upper Bluff Creek Trunk Utility Improvement Project 91-178 and call for a public hearing on Monday, June 1~, lgg3. All voted in favor and the motion carried. City Council Meeting - May 10, 1993 COUNCIL PRESENTATION: Councilman Wing: I only want to make a very quick, off the cuff comment. And that has to do with our city inspections department. Our city's fire marshal, fire codes and building code construction. If it hadn't of been for those individuals and hard nosing some of these positions in the city, we'd be missing a building on main street. And the fire Sunday morning at the professional building, the buildings are sprinkled but what most people don't recognize is that not only does the city require sprinkling but then if there's a false ceiling, Mark and the inspections department requires the sprinkler to be up in the false ceiling. This fire, wherever it started, moved above the sprinkler systems, like the Target store, or the LaBelle's store over on Highway 12 and right along the joist and it burned until it hit the first required sprinkler. The sprinkler popped and the fire, that was the end of it. That building would have been in bad shape if it hadn't have been for our fire code, our inspection system, etc, etc. I just want to really enforce our supporting those people. Mayor Chmiel: I fully agree with you Richard because if those are not carried through, I know of a couple cities who did not carry through with those requirements before and have had lawsults initiated agalnst them and I agree. I think it's. Councilman Wing: Thank you. I'm a believer in sprinklers, if I wasn't. Councilman Mason: Well said. Good, glad you said that. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: LEAGUE OF MINNESOTA CITIES ANNUAL CONFERENCE, CITY HANAGER. Mayor Chmiel: No, nobody's going. Don Ashworth: Going along with Councilman Wing's point. I sat in a number of meetings where the developer protested the installation and because it was a very nebulous section of the code. Along with some parapet walls items that came along. Councilman Wing: I can't tell you how wrong he was. Mayor Chmiel: I think he believes that himself now. Don Ashworth: Because he is still around. The reason I was late this evenlng is I attended the Shorewood City Council tonight. They have agreed to allow the go, approve the annexation/deannexation process. You will have the complete packet in yOUr adminstrative section the next time but we found a home that's. Councilman Mason: They went along with it? Don Ashworth: He's written me a letter. I was gone this past week so I couldn't respond to lt... Our League of Minnesota Cities Annual Conference. Councilman Wing: Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Are there any nice hardwoods on this lot? Did we galn any trees? 37 City Council Heeting- Hay 10, 1993 Councilman Mason: Lots of trees. We're going to gain lots of 'trees. Don Ashuorth: League of Cities Conference. This is a good event if you're able to attend it. And you can go up to various options. I know the Mayor and I have typically gone the first evening, the City Night ill the Park thing is nice. So if you could just drive up for that. There's some late afternoon sessions. Part of Thursday. If you were able to stay roi' all of Thursday, that's a good event then again Thursday evening. So if you just take a look at that. I think what I'll do is have Karen maybe give each of you a call and see where you might be with it. Councilman Wing: And then your recommendation is to, if there was a specific dzte, just say with Thursday. Don Ashworth: If you're really limited in time I would take and drive up Wednesday evening. If you could stay Thursday, potentially driving back Friday mornlng or if you wanLed to drlve back Thursday evenlng. Councilman .~ing: Is this because you don't want to eat dinner alone? Don Ashworth: What really is nice is you will have a very high participation of local government. There are other councilmembers. Other mayors. It's a good chance just to intermingle and talk about stuff. Hayor Chmiel: Yeah, you're right. And you do find out different things in discussions. Some good. Some you question but there's always something good you can pull out of [hese. Councilman Mason: If I can ever work out a deal with the city to pay for a substitute at my school, I'd be happy to go for those. Councilman Wing: You're going to be up there for the whole thing? .3on Ashuorth: I will probably stay Wednesday night, Thursday night and return Friday. H~yor Chmiel: If I go, I may just go Wednesday nlght. Oon Ashworth; Was there a deadline date on that? I'll have Karen find out and make sure that people know. Registration no later than May 28th. Mayor Chmiel: If you cou.'.d .l~:t it before May 14th, it's a little less money. Councilman Mason: I did see that Chet Nu was going to be speaking there...He did some leadership stuff at the National League of Cities in Las Vegas. 3ust really good. He's top notch. Co~tncilwoman Oockendorf: Carl or Chet? Councilman Mason: Carl I guess. Don ~shworth: Shorewood wanted some form of binding agreement that we would contlnue to fund South Shore into the future. Z stated that those type of 38 City Council Meetin~ - May 10, 1993 agreements were not legal. You cannot bind a future City Council. However, I would be willing to talk with the Mayor and potentially draft some form of letter that states that we have always supported the South Shore Center and I would anticipate dolng such in the future. Mayor Chmiel: As long as it does not entail a dollar figure. I would not object to that. And I think the intent behind that, because we do have enough residents within the city of Chanhassen utilizing that. I don't see any problem. So with that, I would call for a motion for adjournment. Councilman Nason moved, Councilman Wing seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 9:32 p.m. Submitted by Don Ashworth City Manager Prepared by Nann Ophelm