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1993 04 26CH~NHASSEN CZTY COUNCZL REGULAR ~EETZNG RPRZL 26, 1993 Mayor Cheiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. The meeting was opened w£th the Pledge to the Flag. HEHBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilwoman Oockendorf, Councilman ging, Councilman Mason, and CouncLlman Senn STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knutson, Todd Gerhardt, Charles Fo[ch, 3o Ann Olsen, SharmLn A1-3aff, and Todd Hoffman APPROVAL OF ~dENDA: Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Oockendorf seconded to approve the agenda amended by Mayor Chmiel changing the Closed Session to read, OataServ vs. City of Chanhassen litigation, and pulling item l(b) from the Consent for staff clarification. All voted tn favor and the motion carried unanimously. pUBLZC ~B~)UNCE~IENTS: None. CONSENT ~ENDR: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the fo[lowing Consent Agenda Items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendatlons: a. Authorize Preparatlon of Plans and Specifications for 1993 Sanitary Sewer Rehab£litatLon Program, Project 93-7. d.' Reso)JAtion ~3-2~: Resolution authorlzing Participation in the Urban Hennepln County Community Oevelopment Block Grant Program. e. Zoning Ordinance amendment to the City Code to Define Dock Setback Zones, Final Reading. f. Approve Carver County Prosecution Contract. h. Approval of Accounts. i. PZanning Commission Minutes dated Apri[ 7, 1993 Public Safety Commission Minutes dated April 15, 1993 voted in favor and the motion carried unaniaoasly. B. N~['OVE N'ENEN'IENT TO ERSEtlENT RGRE~T NOS. 8 P, ND 9 FOR UPPER BLUFF CREEK UTTLXTY ~HPROUEI'IENT PRO3ECT Charles Fo[ch: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. The highlighted area that's attached to your packet on this item for this easement agreement basically.adds some language guaranteeing crop replacement should the City need to access the easement to repair the facility. These guarantees are exclusive to the property owner and will not carry forward upon sale of the property or if the [and Is leased for crop. The change that's noted on Easement No. 9 ts that GayZe and City Council Meeting - april 26, 1993 Lois Degler, who Gayle being the son of Dean and Lois, wish to have rights to be able to plant their crop on their parents property and still have the guarantee effective. So I've discussed this this morning with the attorney and we've made the adjustment accordingly. Mayor Chmiel: Good, thank you. I will move item l(b). Councilman Mason: Second. Hayor Chmiel moved, Councilman Nason seconded to approve Amendment to Easement Agreements Nos. 8 and 9 for Upper Bluff Creek Utility Improvement Project 91-11A as amended by staff. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. C. CHAN HAVEN PLAZA 4TH ADDITION, SOUTH OF HIGH~AY 5 AND EAST OF THE EHISSION CONTROL STATION. Councilman Senn: (c) I just wanted to remove because, I'd say just go ahead and hold the vote. I just want the option to vote no on that, that's a11. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Would someone care to move? Councilman Hason moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve the Final Plat, Oevelopment Contract, and Constructions Plans and Specifications for Chart Haven Plaza 4th Addition, South of Highuay 5 and East of the Emission Control Station. All voted in favor, except Councilman Senn Mbo opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1. Mayor Chmiel: And would you like to provide your comments on that as to your? Councilman Senn: Oh I think I have enough. I just am opposed to the continued addltlon of more automobile related uses. Mayor Chmiel: Alright, good. Thank you. That was four ayes and one no. G. APPROVE PURCHASE AGREEHENT FOR LOT 9. CRANE'S .VTNEYAmRD PARK. Councilman Senn: (g) I just wanted to ask if we could stick a condition in the approval for that that the County has already capped and filled the well, or will do so at their expense. That was unclear at least in the documentation I had and I've talked to staff and since it's unclear, everybody klnd of decided it'd be best just to stick the condition in to make sure. So I would move it ulth that condition. Mayor Chmiel: Can I just, I was going to pull it. I was going to pull this one too. Charles, I'd like to see proper certification by an engineer on the plans when they're submitted. Thls one did not have it. Charles Folch: That was l(c)? Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Councilman Wing: l(g). City Council Meeting - April 26, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: Excuse me, l(g). Yes. l(g). Okay, I'll call the question. We moved around that one too quickly. Councilman Senn: ! moved approval I think is where we were at. Mayor Chmiel: Yes. And ue had a second? Councilman Wing: Second. Councilman Senn moved, Councilman #tng ~econded to approve the Purchase Agreement for Lot 9, Crane's Ulneyard Park amended to include a condition that the County has already capped and filled the ~ell, or w/Il de ~o at their expense, all voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. : : I. CITY COUNCIL H~NUTE$ D~TED /~RIL 12. 1993. .. Councilman Mason: Council Minutes, page 28. Third line from the bottom of my quote. I'm quoted as saying, "I'm not here to do what I think is best for the City of Chanhassen." I don't think I said that. I think what I said is, "I'm here to do what I think is best for the City of Chanhassen-." Councilman Wing: No, it's on tape. Councilman Senn: That's what the'tape said Mike. Councilman Mason: So I guess I'd like that changed. With that I'll move the Minutes. Mayor Chmiel: Alright. Is there a second? Councilman Wing: I'll second it. Councilman Naaon moved, Councilman Wtn~ seconded to approve the Ninute~ of the City Council meeting dated ~pril 12. 1993 as amended on pa~e 28 by Councilman Nason. ~11 voted in favor and the aotton carried-unanimously. VISITOR PRESENTRTIONS: : Public Pre~ent: Chris Polster Scott & Kirsten Molencamp Jeff Lynne Barry Abblett Jane & Larry Stafford James Murphy Darrell W. Swamson Carla Hoffer Terry Waagmeester James A. Russ Jadzva Stokke 8020 Hidden Court 8137 Dakota Lane 8615 Chanhassen Hills Dr. 8644 Chanhassen Hills Br. 8593 Chanhassen Hills Or. 8020 Hidden Court 6985 Chaparral Lane 8698 Mary Jane. Circle 7461 Canyon Curve 7521 Canyon Curve 7221 Sierra Court City Council Heeting - April 26, 1993 Name Address Rhonda Faidley Bruce Engel Jack 3ensen 3ay Johnson 8117 Erie Circle 8699 Chanhassen Hills Dr. No. 8480 Pelican Court 7496 Saratoga Jack Jensen: I'm Jack Jensen, President of the CAA. Here in Chanhassen. At our April 21st Board of Directors meeting, the Chanhassen Athletic Association identified indoor and outdoor facility needs for the coming year. In concluding the two Little League fields and one 12-13 year old AAU field would satisfy summer baseball and softball needs and two full sized gyms would satisfy indoor youth recreation needs for 1994. The CAA has therefore resolved to gain support of the elected officials for construction or conversion of a ballfields to be operational by the spring of 1994 and the construction of indoor facilities to the operation of the fall of 1994. The CAA is a non-profit parent run volunteer organization and plans and executes youth sports programming in Chanhassen. City involvement is limited to field provisions and maintenance and some administrative support. Some other expenses absorbed by CAA members who pay registration fees and the annual family dues. CAA volunteers save the taxpayers of Chanhassen more than $50,000.00 a year in average inverted salaries, benefits and represents nearly 600 Chanhassen families. The CAA accepted 730 registrations for the spring sports of 1993 requiring 60 outdoor field times. The City of Chanhassen is able to supply 56 field times. Consequently 10 and under girls softball was required to compress their time schedule to accommodate the need. In 1994 the CAA expects to register 850 to 900 registrations because of the population increases and exclusion of the Chanhassen residents from other area opportunities. Nearly 80 field times will be required. If the fleld requirements are not met, the CAA w111 have to eliminate programs. The CAA accepted more than 300 registrations for winter basketball last year in the grades 1 thru 4 and eliminated programming for 5th graders in '92-'93 because of the facllity problem. Demand for the 5th grade and up program ls becoming more excessive because other communities can no longer provide facilities for Chanhassen due to their own growth. The estimated need for the fall of lg94 will be 83 hours of gym tlme. Current available tlme in Chanhassen is 43 hours. The CAA has no choice but to spend or considerably alter programming for the Doming '93-'94 season. The support of our elected officials is necessary if the Chanhassen children are to be given a youth sports opportunity. It is no longer acceptable that the Clty of Chanhassen rely on other communities to support our needs. The CAA wtll actively pursue the construction or conversion of 3 youth ballfields and 2 full sized gyms wlthln the city boundaries to be operational by the '94 season. Really we know that there's been a plan in front of you and lt's gone back and forth for that recreation facility. We're trying to show you that we desparately need more facilities. As the kids get older, the space requirements get smaller because of what's available to us. The smaller children, you know the T-bailers and Pee Wests and the Ragballers, there's a lot of neighborhood parks that also aren't available to us yet because they're just not totally completed yet and so right now we don't see a major, I guess a major lssue on those klds. But beoause the population has grown such, the kids are at an age level of the Little League age and that's where the blg number of chlldren are expanding and we just need to be able to accommodate space for them as they get older. Rlght now we have one Llttle League fleld and thls year we have 8 baseball teams. Next year we plan City Council Heeting - April 2&, 1993 on, I mean with the population we look at around 12 baseball teams and we're not going to be able to accommodate all those kids and as we get older too, the 13 and 14 and 15 and l& year old children too, for ballfields aren't going to be, with what we have in place right now isn't going to be, we're not going to be able to accommodate all the children. As for the basketball and the facilities, the indoor recreation, right now the use that we have that other communities, the other part of the District 112, we get to utilize the Chanhassen Elementary School. A year ago basketball we had Tuesdays and Thursdays and we were able to play our games on Friday. Last year we played Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday to accommodate all those kids and we.cut out the older kids program. The 5th grades and we moved those down to Chaska to play. Tuesday wasn't used because the school also has things that they'need the school for and they have first priority over what they did. They try to do it all.on one date so it wouldn't really conflict with anything that we had going. So I'd just like to see what your opinions are on that recreation center and outdoor fields too that we're going to need. I'd like.you all to express where you sit with that recreation indoor facility that we understand would not, at the present time would not cost taxpayers anything to build. And we might as well start with you Oon. To get it on the record here what. Mayor Chm£el: I like your direction but I normally give it to Council first. Even though glven my. Jack Jensen: Ithtnk y'our voice can go down and work the other way. Mayor Chmiel: Let me clarify that- I think as you have seen in my letter that I sent out in the newsletter, in that I was supporting it but we don't have all the statistics as yet. I was saying that we do need one. Now whether'it goes there or goes somewhere else, that's something that we have-to look at. But presently that is going to serve..two functions-that.we're looking at. One, cleaning up what's existing behind Filly's and once removing.Filly's from that particular location and then going through some of the considerations that we're looking at as to the different options of the way it can be set up. But and that almost sounded like a political kind of statement but it isn't. I do support one and I said this, I think the first year that I took office, which is 5 years ago and I said that I saw and envisioned something for the city of Chanhassen anywhere from 5 to 7 years down the line. Because the population, we have to really look at that. We just can't put something;in right now to service the needs for us presently. We have to look to the future and what growth can happen with the city and how we may have to expand on what we would put in as well. So there's a lot of thought that has to be given to it. Jack Jensen: Well I know it's been before you for a long .time.and the first time it went through it was a 4 to 1 for this particular slte. We're not opposed to any other site, it's just that we're just telling you that we need the facility. We don't care where it goes. I mean we have an opportunity to put it in a spot where it'-s going to be-the less burden on the majority of the people for tax purposes you know where it wouldn't increase because of the way that the thing has been set up and we'd Just like to get your approval with it. Or if you have, if you want to table it or things like that, we're going to I guess see to that as a, at this time as a no type of vote for it. And then we'll just, I mean we. Mayor Chmiel: I don't think you can assume that's a no vote. City Council Meeting - April 26, 1993 3ack Jensen: No, I mean I think you're behind it Don but I also think that, I mean for the most part and I think some of the Council is too, and I know that some are dead against having the thing built. But I mean it's to a point where we're already busting at our seams over at the school and it's not really the best of floors to have the kids running up and down on for, I mean it's not a wood floor. It's a tile floor with concrete underneath it. I mean it's an inadequate facility but it's something that we have to utilize because it's the only facility that we've got available to us. As where the place is, we know that some people consider it an eyesore. Some from Highway 5 and some of this would develop that into a nice looking facility over there but we also have the children as they get older, it's more pertinent that we look for constructive things for them to do versus destructive things for them to do. And if ue don't find something for them to utilize their time in a positive manner, they're going to find other ways if they're not being supervised to go up. Councilman Wing: Let's get to the rest of the Council because I'm dying for this one. Can I go next? Hayor Chmiel: Sure. Councilman Wing: Or would you like to start with Mark? Jack, I've made it clear to a friend of yours that I don't know why you're here because there's two elements in the city. One is called the Council and they deal with tax dollars. Tax revenue and politics. So if we want to build a community center, we could vote on it tonight. It's going to have to go to a referendum because there's a lot of money involved, etc, etc, etc. Another night on Thursday nights a group called the Housing and Redevelopment Authority sits and the reason they're talking about a community center in this city is because the HRA, not the Council, Housing and Redevelopment Authority, is talking about building it with tax increment money, which isn't tax money. Jack 3ensen: I'm aware of that. Councilman Wing: So to be here is sort of humorous because I control, what's the budget I control. It's thls much and here's HRA with this enormous checkbook and they're the ones that put it together. So my suggestion to everybody interested ina community center, don't waste your time here, Jack 3ensen: Well we're looking for your support. We're not telling you right now. Councilman Wing: ~all, start out with storming the HRA which is on Thursday nights. Jack 3ensen: Well the HRA, from my understanding has already approved some of the things to go through and it's been before you and it was a 4 to 1 vote and it was tabled because it wasn't a unanimous declslon because Don wanted a unanimous decision with all of you. Councilman Wing: Okay, here's what I'm telling you. HRA has to feel supported. Feel that the community is behind them. The money's there. That they're bulldlng what's rlght and doing what's right downtown. It's what you want and that's indecisive right now and they need to hear the very comments you're City Council Meeting - April 26, 1993 making tonight because then when they make these decisions, and this package is together, then maybe it will get back to Council and we can stamp it yes or no. But get to the HRA. Jack Jensen: But you also have the ability to let the HRA know where you stand on the issue. Councilman Wing: I've been there and made it clear where I stand. Let's get going is my position. Jack Jensen: Okay. Colleen? Councilwoman Oockendorf: Well, I hate to disagree with the elder statesman Wing but it's not up to the HRA. It's up to the City Council as well and we've wrestled with the idea of what to do wlth that eyesore in the middle of town and I hate to call it a community center now. I hate to call it a recreation center because we just haven't decided what's best for that area. iZn talking with Todd, it's going to be too small for our future needs. $o there's the benefit of yes, let's build it and we can get some facilities in there off the tax rolls but there's the other side of the coin where it's probably not enough to serve our needs in the future and right now tt's so much in the planning stage. I mean the preliminary stage. For instance this Wednesday we're going over to Shorev£ew to take a look at their community center and see what they've done. So it's not like we've pooh poohed-the idea completely. We just don't know yet what we want there and I guess my question is, you're aware of the facilities that we'll probably be building at CR 117 and TH 5, which will alleviate some of that need you know to begin with because that's probably going to be done before anything happens downtown here. So to give you the support for a recreation center there, ! just can't do that right now because Z don't know... Jack Jensen: Well not that in that specific spot. It could be anywhere within the city limits. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Anywhere, absolutely. We need more facilities definitely. Jack Jensen: So you'd support a factlity being built, tf not there, someplace else? Councilwoman Dockendorf: I think it's going to happen. It's going to need to happen. Jack Jensen: Soon. Timeframe. I mean I don't know what I can do here but. Mayor Chmiel: I think what you're trying to do is tie us down to an exact timeframe. We can't give you that because we have not gone fully through that. And I'm speaking on behalf of HRA because I serve on HRA as well. So with what we've gotten, the information we have, the movement is where are we going to locate that facility. If that location is going to suffice our needs, fine. If not, then we have to look somewhere else. Jack Jensen: And what I'm saying is, but we're in dire need of it now and within the coming next year, year and a half so Z mean the longer than you table City Council Meeting - April .it or put it up for discussion and things like that, it's just going to put it longer on out. Mayor Chmiel: It could take a while. Jack Jensen: I mean the high school's going to be built before you end up making a declslon so. Mayor Chmiel: I doubt that. Jack Jensen: But I mean we don't want that to be. Well, hopefully not too but we don't want that because we also see the needs when the elementary school, we're going to need that facility too because of our growth and we're going to need the middle school when it gets hopefully built here in the future, 10-15 years, whatever it will be. We'll need that facility too and we're going to need the high school. So I mean it's not that we're not looking at being able to use everything that's available to us. We have and we're at the seams here already. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Mike. Councilman Mason: I get to go next? You know I think it's probably going to be a combination of what both Colleen and Rlchard said because with the way I see it happening rlght now, there's not enough money in the HRA funds to build a facillty that ls golng to be needed in Chanhassen in the year 25. Aren't we talklng 35,000 people by 2030, or something like that? Mayor Chmiel: 32 to 35. Councilman Mason: So it's not, you know it isn't just a matter of HRA going let's build it and it's not just a matter of City Council saying let's do it. I mean there has to be, there were two referendums, two bond issues and they were voted down. Now my personal feeling is if the third one was voted next month, it would pass but I don't know that. I mean I haven't done any studles. That's just my gut level. Yeah, we need more. There's no question of that Jack and we're going to get it. Unfortunately the wheels of government move far too slowly for everybody, including the people involved in the government sometimes. 8ut we've got to get on it and we've got to start pushing for it and I think Richard's comment about, you know letting people on HRA know. That's where the prlority needs to be rlght now. Letting Council know, 11kw you're letting Council know right now that's a priority. It is a priority. We don't have the facilities in thls clty and we got to get them. Jack Jensen: Mark. Councilman Senn: Really what you're asklng I think deals ulth two separate issues, or I guess at least the way you've brought it up to us. If you're asking about a community center, I'm going to agree wlth you 100~. I mean I'd like to see a community center. I'd like to see a community center built that meets all the needs of the community at thls point in time, or at least some projected needs. I think that would a15o accommodate some of the things you're mentioning as well as a lot of other thlngs, or other groups let's say. I oan't say that I even are close to agreeing that the Iocation for that is behind City Council Meeting - April 26, 1993 Filly's and the Dinner Theatre. In fact I have a lot of real reservations about that as a site for a community center. I have a lot of reservations about the need for acquisition of Filly's and a whole bunch of things but those are all separate issues that as far as I'm concerned have nothing to do with a community center. As far as, ! mean I hate to disagree with my learned colleagues here but use of tax increment money is not free. And tax increment money is tax money. And if you don't. Jack Jensen: Well tax money that we've put in there over the years. Councilman Senn: No, it's money. Jack Jensen: And it's money that. Councilman Senn: No, let me finish okay. It's not money you put in over the years. Tax increment money is money that businesses have put in over the years rather than pay it into the normal tax rolls. Okay? If that money were going lnto the normal tax rolls, all of our taxes would be less. That money ls not going into the normal tax rolls. It's going into a fund called tax increment. Now that's a good deal in a lot of ways, but I get real irritated when everybody stands up and says, this is free and there's no tax dollars in here. That's not true. And again, that's a separate issue from the community center so I mean if you're asking if there should be a community center, I'm going to give you the 100~ yes there should. And it should be a broad base one that meets all the needs of the community. How it's financed and where the location is are issues that this body as well as other bodies need to deal with and get to a point that there's agreement on or whatever. I mean I don't know. I mean that's up to them. You don't have to have 100~ agreement on anything around here. Mayor Chmiel: Michael. Councilman Mason: I'd just like to make a comment on where the tax increment money goes and whether it would lower our taxes or not. I have yet to see any statistics that say that the rest of the city's tax base would be lowered appreciatibly if there was or wasn't tax increment financing. I'd just a little counter point to Councilman Senn there Z guess. Councilman Senn: I'll bring them in and show them to you Mike. Councilman Mason: Well I think we'd ali like to see it. I think our City Manager and some other people disagree with you Mark so. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Is there anythtng else? I appreciate bringing in our future leaguers here. It's sort of neat to see these kids here this evening. My suggestion is though, bring this up before HRA. That meeting is going to take place next month at, Todd what day is it?. May 20th, yeah. 7:30. And there's a presentation portion within there that you can also do. Jack Jensen: I'll be there. Mayor Chmiel: But there are three other people that sit on the HRA that need to hear what you're saying as well. City Council Meeting - April 26, 1~3 Terry Waagmeester: Can I ask a question? Mayor Chmiel: Certainly. If you want to come to the microphone. Councilman Senn: Oon, while he's comlng up, just a question. I have all these other letters that somebody handed us out tonight. Where's the original letter that all these talk about? I mean I haven't even seen the orlginal letter yet I've got all these follow-up letters to the orlginal letter. Mayor Chmlel: Yeah, I've not seen that either. Councilman Wing: Well Todd also, just could you real briefly address, you seem to have some disagreement between CAA members and what's been sald tonlght. Are we in dire straits or are we just strapped? Is the community dytng because we're not providing services? There seems to be a disagreement. Councilman Mason: Why don't we let this gentleman deal with it. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, let's. Terry Waagmeester: My name's Terry Waagmeester. I live at 74~1 Canyon Curve. My questlon ls, if there is an advantage or if there's an opportunity to take advantage of TIF money now and lnvest it in something that ! think is real positlve for the community in a lot of different aspects, do ue have to look at it as it has to be a one site facility? And could it be a multlple slte facility and since we're looking down the road and saylng gee, all these projections but projections sometimes have a mysterious way of maybe not comlng true. So maybe you do it in a couple incremental steps. In other words, take advantage now. Build a faclllty here. Chanhassen is pretty spread out and maybe ue need one out on the western end for the future. So I'd just like to offer that up for consideration and maybe you seize the opportunity that you have now and wait to see the actual projections become reality. Mayor Chmiel: From an economic aspect, it probably is not the way to go. But I think what you're saying is that we should find a location that we can butld in phases. As the community grows, so does the center. I think that's what we're really looking at. Councilman Mason: Yeah, ~ thlnk it's important to note, if tax increment financing money is used for it, it has to be built within the area that was created for the tax increment district. Terry Waagmeester: Right, so you focus in on that for this time. But what I'm saying is, as you grow you may put another facility. I know it may be somewhat more costly but it may actually service the community better by having multiple facilities instead of trylng to cram it all into one area. You may run into a problem even finding the spacing for that as it grows and getting approval on all of them Mayor Chmlel: Good. Thank you. So with that, thank you for coming. Councilman Wing: Could I just ask Todd. 10 City Council Heeting - April 26, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: Okay, you want to address that? Councilman Wing: Just for the crisis comments. I haven't heard this from you before. Todd Hoffman: Heard it from me? Councilman Wing: I haven't heard that we had a crisis here until. Todd Hoffman: Councilman Wing and Council this, the letters you have were presented to you this evening. It came about as a letter which Hr. Jensen as President of the Athletic Association attached a note onto some of their registration and scheduling information. I was under the assumption that Mr. Jensen was going to address that with the City Council this evening. Thus I passed out this information. I think it would be appropriate to ask Jack if he wishes to carry forward with that presentation or if he's satisfied with the arrangement which Chanhassen, the Park and Recreation Oepartment has approached him with. Councilman Senn: Hike, just all my point was is I'd like to see it because Z mean. Todd Hoffman: The other letter? Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Councilman Senn: I mean these seem to be responses to it. It's kind of hard to gauge it without. Todd Hoffman: Sure. Jack, do you have anything to say? Jack Jensen: I have a letter here that I gave out to our Little League aged program children and it pertains to the South Tonka Baseball League and the use of Chanhassen fields. In the past our kids have gone to South Tonka to play Little League or they've gone to Chaska to play Little 'League. It came about in the beginning of February that Little League was going to change their boundaries to accommodate, to stay within their guidelines of the franchise. The franchise states that they need to be within 20,000 that they're drawing from for population wise. So when they found that out, it ended up being the World Series last year. They took the crown away from the Phillipines and that type of thing because they had Illegible players. Well, so they went through Z think country wide and was trying to keep everybody within their guidelines. the guidelines says 20,000 so they were going to cut out Chanhassen kids from playing up there that were south of District 276. So the kids south of 276 would have to find another place to go. So that opt, our group here, the CAA to start a baseball program and we ended up having enough sign-ups for 8 teams to play on one field. That's the Little League field over at Lake Ann No. 2. South Tonka also made a request to utilize that field 2 nights out of the 5 nights so they could accommodate the Chanhassen kids that still played up within their city. Mayor Chmiel: How many kids would that be about Jack? 11 City Council Meeting -- April 26, 1993 Jack Jensen: The kids that are going to utilize the field, it ends up being 12 kids. The kids that we have is 99 kids in our group. And so I mean the percentage, and we did offer, I mean through the CAA we offered the program to go citywide so those children that were up in the 276 district also had the opportunity to play within our group here and make this an even stronger league than it started out to be here. So I mean it came down to where the city staff here agreed to letting South Tonka have 2 nlghts a week and that we would get 3 nights a week. They got to pick the nights that they wanted. They wanted Tuesdays and Thursdays. They were still going to get Tuesdays and Thursdays which meant that we'd have to play on some subpar fields that could accommodate baseball wlthln Chanhassen. Those ended up being Meadow Green, because those are the only ones large enough to accommodate baseball. We also have to move the soccer flelds, redraw those a little blt to accommodate soccer and baseball to happen at the same time. There's no fences out there so the ball lsn't going to be stopped. It's a hardball so you try to do it so where nobody gets hurt by this whole operation so, I brought it before Jerry and Jerry I believe felt handcuffed. I don't know, he gave me a letter and after Todd got more information and went back to Jerry and Jerry reconsidered on his structure so it was a 4 to 1. They would get it i nlght, we would get it 4 nlghts and we would play on Meadow Green 4 nights and they would play there I night. 8eing that of the Chanhassen kids that, there were only 5 teams up there wlth 11 kids on a team. One team has 7 games scheduled down here on that field. Two teams have 3 games scheduled on lt. One team has i game scheduled on it and the other team has no game scheduled on lt. So I mean it was trying to be a fair assessment to let equal access to all the kids up there to play on the nlce fleld down here. 8ut where we stood and how I felt and the CAA, it was that they had the best of thelr fleld up there. Up at Freeman and the other fields that they had use of and it forced us to play, you know not play on our best field. It made us go to a subpar fleld. One wlthout the fences and the Llttle League size status to lt. So that's when, I mean I wrote a letter to all the members within this 100 kid group to let them know that the Clty hadn't made a declsion yet on what they were golng to do so I had to make a decislon to send this letter out so they could get the information so we could pursue the means of rectifying the difference. And from our standpoint we don't have any objection to let the kids from South Tonka play on the flelds as long as we get first rlght to the flelds and if there's anything left over, then they're more than welcome to use the fields. The percentages, I mean they have approximately 80% of thelr chidlren that are on those teams playing down here are from the Minnetonka School District whlch our tax money are paylng to upkeep the Lake Ann fleld and we felt that we should be able to have first chance of belng a Chanhassen organization and thelr's belng an outslde organization, to have first chance at the fields. And I was going to bring it up at the Park and Rec Commission. I was just going to do the general thing here for the need for the facilities and I wasn't golng to get into this program until, I mean this problem until tomorrow with the Park and Rec Commission to address that. 8ut seelng how it was brought up, that's where we stand. As the taxpayers here, our program is for all of Chanhassen. Again, we opened the programming up to them and they chose to go to an outside organization to participate so I guess our feeling is that they should then fall wlthln the ranklng of just waltlng in 11ne to see if we have anythlng left over for them to utilize. And so I mean we would like to have full use of Lake Ann but the recommendation from the clty staff ls to go 4 and i rlght now. 4 nights for us and 1 nlght for them, although they still got to pick what nlghts that they declded to play on. And you know left us wlth some, a 11ttle bit 12 City Council Meeting - April 26, 1993 infavorable nights. Friday night. If we didn't have to play Friday night, most people wouldn't want to play Friday night. But having Tuesdays and Thursdays going to South Tonka, it forces us to have to play those times. Mayor Chmiel: Todd, I'm reading some of these other letters that had concerns ar so on, and ! think this is sort of an in-house kind of thing that probably should get cleaned up within the CAA rather than Council making decisions on it. I think the Board, and I'm not sure as to some of these statements in here. That this was not before the Board and I think probably some of those concerns probably should be addressed with them directly. Jack Jensen: Well it really wasn't a, to those two specific people that that involves, I mean of the replies that you have there, their both on the Board but they also have conflicting interest in because they're children are in that program. So of course they want to play on these fields here but again, they had the opportunity to play within this organization and make this a stronger organization. Mayor Chmiel: I think I read something somewhere, correct me if I'm wrong. But my understanding is that this was the last year Chanhassen was going to have this. Minnetonka was going to have that next year all by themselves. Or something to that effect. Jack Jensen: Well this, it ended up being the last year that they weren't going to allow our children up there. But it's still, the way they drew the guidelines and the guidelines that they drew for their boundaries were the 276 School District. So we're still going to have children that are going to participate up in their programs, unless their boundary actually just went by city and then cut that, you know more or less forced our children to play within this organization. Or if they chose to go outside, then they're just on their own. Mayor Chmiel: How many kids from Chanhassen play in the Tonka portion? I thought it was more like 70 kids or 60-70. Todd Hoffman: The numbers I came up with is that the South Tonka Little League program, ages 11 and 12 have approximately IlO kids. Hr. Jensen states that probably 80~ of those are non-residents. The information I received is about more equal of half. About 50~. Somewhere in that nature. Mayor Chmiel again, I agree with your position that this is a situation that should have been resolved at the Athletic Association and Park Department level. I attempted to do that. It was my understanding through conversations with Mr. Jensen that he would be bringing this issue to the City Council this evening and the Park and Recreation Commission tomorrow night so I just wanted to alert you of that situation. That was my reasoning for handing out those letters. Councilman Mason: Can I just, I'm going to stir the pot a little bit here. Ironically with all this difficult, well seemingly difficulty that's going on here. I got a call yesterday from the President of Tonka-Lh~tted Soccer Association of which many children in Chanhassen are a part-of saying he was told by someone in CAA that they couldn't use the fields at MIS because CAA needed them. Now I just in talking with Todd Hoffman, that stuff is all arranged beforehand and if people in CAA are starting to change the rules, I 13 City Council Meeting - April 26, 1993 think there's a problem and I think it needs to be dealt with. Now maybe this all a misunderstanding. I hope it is but dog gone it, this thing about 276 versus 112 is popping up again and I won't have it. I mean this really peeves me. So I'm just. Jay Johnson: Wrong organization. It's not the CAA. It's the Chan-Chaska Soccer Club that Tonka United was fighting with. We asked for 10 nlghts on the fleld that we've used for the last 15 years. We asked for 10 nlghts out of the year and Tonka Unlted came around today and said, fine. We offered them ? nlghts on another fleld that one of the flelds ue used. That's all cool. That's no problem. That was the opposite situation you see here. Okay. Where people were saylng 112 is Chanhassen and 276 isn't, which is wrong. A lot of 276 kids in South Tonka play. Tonka United was saying Chanhassen, you're not 276 and I was argulng the other way wlth them. Councilman Mason: You know I bet if we had more athletic faci'lities none of thls would be a problem. Mayor Chmiel: You're right. You're right. What I'd 11ke to see done with thls Jack is take it back to the Board and let them come up with, maybe come up with the same conclusion that you have. But I would appreciate that you do that and I'll make a point of trying to hit tomorrow evening's meeting as well with the Park and Rec. But some of the thlngs that I see here, I think the City trles to run facilities and however this comes out or shakes out we'll go from there. So I appreciate your explanation this evening and I guess what we should do is get it addressed back to the Board and hopefully get this resolved. Okay? Jack Jensen: Alright, thanks. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you for coming down. It's always nice to see a full Council room again rather than an empty one. You can stay longer if you'd 11ke. PUBLIC HEARING: PROPOSED VACATION OF A DRAINAGE AND UTILITY EASEHENT LOCATED ALONG THE EAST LOT LINE OF OUTLOT A, SUN RIDGE ADDITION, CHAN DEVELOPMENT. Mayor Chmiel: I'd like to open this meeting at this time. As I mentioned, this lsa publlc hearlng. Is there anyone wlshlng to address thls at thts tlme rlght now? Councilman Wing moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The publlc hearing was closed. Councilman Wing: Mr. Mayor, I'd like to move approval of this item. Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second? Councilwoman Dockendorf: Second. Resolution ~93-30: Councilman Wing moved, Councilwoman Oockendorf seconded to approve the resolution vacating the easement as shown on the plans dated March 29, 1993 for a drainage and utility easement located in the Bluff Creek Estates Subdivision. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. 14 City Council Meeting - April 26, 1993 Councilman Wing: That is clearly a record for this Council. Just on the record. CONSIDER PRELIHINARY PLAT APPROYAC QF A PLANNED UNIT DEVEI.0P~ AND SITE PLAN APPROVAL TO CREATE 21 TOWNHOHE LOTS, ~OCATED DIRECTLY EAST (hr POW~R~ B1)ULEVARD AND ADJACENT TO LAKE SUSAN HILLS PUD, PRAIRIE CREEK TO~NHOHES, ~ASPER DEUELOPHENT. Public Present: Name Address James Oomholt Andrew K. Olson Tom Nilsson Kirby Paulson 825i West Lake Court 8290 West Lake Court 1060 Lake Susan Hills Orive 8410 West Lake Drive Jo Ann Olsen: I'll just give you a brief summary on this one. It's actually down to 24 units now. This was reviewed two times by the Planning Commission. The main issues that the Planning Commission had with this was the density. That the PUD contract stated that it could only be 31~ impervious coverage and what they are proposing was closer to 45~. There's also discussions on whether or not we should be applying the new PUD regulations. If that would be changing or giving the city more than what they were getting currently with the proposal. And then also there was some issues with the architecture of the buildings that some of the residents had some concerns with. They wanted it to be added to a little bit to, the rear of the buildings they thought were kind of plain. So the Planning Commission did review it a second time. The applicants had removed 3 of the units. They've even added more to the landscaping plan. The impervious coverage is now down to 40~, which is what staff had recommended approval of originally. As far as the impervious coverage, the reason that it's higher is the type of units that they're proposing. It's not the stacked units. It's more kind of a single family type of unit and that's what they're going for is the, for the people who want those type of units. The impervious coverage is not that much in excess that we feel it's that much of a problem. They're really adding a lot of landscaping. It's going to actually be a very nice looking project. One of the reasons that there is more impervious coverage is because of the looped street that we are requiring for safety. Also staff has recommended that there be visitor parking on this, so that added to some of the impervious coverage. So as just a real short synopsis, the Planning Commission did recommend approval of the revised plan. The applicant is here if you have any question. I see that some of the residents are also here too. We are still recommending approval with a couple of changes made to the conditions that the Planning Commission added. Other than that, I'll answer any questions that you have. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Is the applicant here at this time? Wish to make a proposal? Larry Harris: Thank you Mr. Mayor. My name is Larry Harris. I'm the attorney- representing the applicant, Jasper Oeve!opment. The applicant is pleased with the action taken by the Planning Commission and would like to see the Council act and follow the recommendations of it's Planning Commission with one 15 City Council Meeting - April 26, 1993 exception. The staff memorandum prepared by Ms. Olsen dated March 30th of 1993 also asked the Planning Commission to consider increasing the impervious lot denslty to the 40~ figure on Outlot O. The PUC agreement for Outlot O sets the impervious surface density at 27~ for that particular outlot. For Outlot C, ~hlch ls the subject of the preliminary plat in front of you, lt's 31~. That's i~ortant for a very significant reason to my client. Jasper Oevelopment holds tn option on Outlot O and anticipates ¢omlng back to the Clty ina relatively near future, perhaps within the next 12 to 18 months with a preliminary plat for that slte for townhouses that wlll be configured in the same manner as the townhouses which you have before you now. The reason that issue is important is the PUS aqreement sets an even lower impervious density, that ls 27X as opposed to the 31~ which is in the agreement for Outlot C. Jasper Oevelopment needs to kn.aw what the positlon of the Council ls golng to be in relation to Outlot D because it has a significant impact, to be very blunt, in terms of whether or not to exercise thelr option on the other outlot. If the impervious density is not set at the same 40~ figure that the Planning Commission recommends on Outlot C~ this type of a townhouse project, that is detached, high quality units, 1,400 plus square feet cannot be built. The only thing that you can build and meet the 27% density that is set forth in your planned unlt development agreement is essentially stacked, very high density unlts. I realize that's somewhat of an anomaly but the only way to keep the impervious surface requirement and meet it at 27x is to put in high density stacked units which Jasper Oevelopment, and I don't belleve the Clty's plannlng staff feel ls the best use for thls property. city staff had recommended to the Planning Commission that they also go with the dO~ on Outlot D. Plannlng Commission was relunctant to do so and I think thelr rationale was that they wanted to look at it again at a later date. The problem is that leaves the developer in qulte a quandry. The developer ls very certain that it wants to come back with a proposal that is, I don't want to say it's coin9 to be identical to the proposal they're making on Outlot C but it will certainly be units that are essentially the same. If the City Council is not !~i111rlq to do lt, lt's golng to have some lmpact on whether the developer's qoing to be willing to proceed. Not with the portion of the project that's in front of you but wlth the additional portlon. And accordingly we would ask that the Council act in accordance with staff's recommendation to the Planning Commission on the Outlot O issue. Other than that, representatives of Jasper OeYelopment are present. Z'm present. We could answer any questions that the Coun~il might have about the proposal. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Jo Ann. 3o Ann Olsen: Staff's original condition was realizing that the impervious coverages were low and that to take away any feelings that they might be setting ~recedent was just to establish for all the medlum and hlgh denslty outlots left wlthin the PUC just to make it a uniform 40~. Planning Commission was not comfortable wlth that. They want to see the plan first and that, I agree you know wlth what they're doing. And that's not to say that they won't get the 40X but I don't know that that's something you just want to flat out give them rlght Mayor Chmiel: I think at this particular time it gets a little difficult for us to give a decision on what's going to be coming in at a later time. 16 City Council Meeting - April 2&, 1993 3o Ann Olsen: The Planning Commission was very strong on that and I think that they would. Councilman Senn: Could you do one thing for us because at least nothing I had in the packet gives me the reference points that he was Just talking about. Outlot D and. Ann Olsen: Oh, Outlot O is way in the back. Councilwoman Oockendorf: It's on the other side of Lake Susan Hills Drive. Councilman Senn: No, but ! meant I was just looking for where the outlets were. 30 Ann Olsen: It's on the end of your PUD contract. Mayor Chmiel: I thlnk the last two or three sheets. Councilman Senn: Okay, and that's C and O then. Mayor Chmiel: Well, before we go any further. I'd like to see if there's anyone who would like to address this as well at this particular time. Okay. If not, then I'd like to go to Council. Mark, do you have anything more in addition to what you indicated? Councilman Senn= ! guess I would have a difficult time I guess at this point acting on something that's not before us. As far as the outlots go. I guess I don't really see the need to do that at this point in time. But as far as what is before us in staff's recommendations, [ see no problem with that. Mayor Chmiei: Okay. Michael. Councilman Mason: Reading through the both sets of Minutes on the Planning Commission, there's some pretty interesting discussions going on about 35~ to 40~ and I do agree with the thought that Just because something was passed 5 years ago, it doesn't mean it works now. I'm uncomfortable with the 40~ impervious coverage but given this circumstance, and that's what I like about the PUB, clearly if we had a smaller percentage, we'd have a higher units and I know for a fact nobody that lives in the residential area wants that and I certainly wouldn't if I want to. I'm under the impression that by and large the residents in the area are okay with what's going on here? I mean obviously you don't want anything there. I mean ! don't fault you for that but you-know, but things seem like, yeah. It looks like a pretty good development. I agree with Councilman Senn. I don't think we're in a position to be saying what will be happening on Outlot O right now. I'd certainly not to say that it won't happen but until we see a plan. No, I'm going to get my kick in here for affordable housing also. This is alternative housing. It's not affordable, as you stated Jo Ann. And that is something that I want to keep hammering away at but this is an alternative that apparently people are looking for. Rnd it does, you know the landscaping looks good. Z'ii pass my landscaping comments onto the tree man here, and I'm sure he'll be getting his crack at it pretty soon. But it looks like things are pretty weii thought out. Mayor Chmiel: Good. Okay, Colleen. City Council Meeting - April Councilwoman Oockendorf: Well, Mike touched on pretty much everything I wanted to say. There was lots of good discussion generated in most of the Minutes and I thlnk everything was pretty much covered there. There wasn't what I could see any resolution to the drainage lssue. Is that an issue or was it just? Jo Ann Olsen: That was never really an issue. There was the discussion a lot about the ponding. The temporary ponding. Some of the residents were concerned where exactly it was going to be. What's the depth. What's the slze and they're still, when the plans and specs come through then we'll have those details. We don't have them yet but. Councilwoman Dockendorf: So it's not really? Jo Ann 01sen: Yeah, it shouldn't be a concern. We won't be taking down trees for it. Councilwoman Dockendorf: And as far as the impervious coverage, as stated in the Minutes, if it's 10,000 square feet, which isn't a lot, but it makes we wonder why we're requiring visltor parklng. Jo Ann Olsen: Well we still feel that's a concern. There's no really areas for street parklng along there so if people go beyond thelr driveway area, there is a need. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Alright, so there is a need there. And my other question, and I don't know if we're at it yet but we're golng to be putttng a tra11 there. There's currently a sldewalk at least rlght there. Jo Ann Olsen: It's going to be replaced. It's actually going through their lot right now so it has to be adjusted and flxed. It's not very good now. Councilwoman Oockendorf: And as far as the other outlots in the area, I'd certainly 11ke to leave that optlon open because I am looklng, I thlnk that's, whether it be on the east or west side of Powers, I think there's good opportunity there for affordable houslng. I don't want to scare everyone in the neighborhood about that but I'd like to leave that option open. Otherwise I'm flne. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Richard. Councilman Wing: Planning Commission said it all. I support where they're at. That's all I have to say. Mayor Chmiel: I guess I don't have anything more to add to it either. I would request an approval for the proposal. Councilman Senn: I move approval. Councilman Mason: With conditions as stated? Councilman Senn: Yeah, as per staff's recommendation. Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second? 18 City Council Meeting - April 26, 1993 Councilman Hason: Second. Mayor Chmiel: It's been moved and seconded. Any other discussion? Councilman Senn moved, Counc/lman Nason seconded to approve Prairie Creek Townhomes as shown on the revised plans dated Narch 25, 1993, with the following condit/ons: 1. Change Lot 25, Block 1 to Outlot A and Homeowners Association By-laws shall be submitted to staff for approval and filing against the subject site. 2. Amend the PUD Contract to state the impervious surface coverage of this site cannot exceed 40~. 3. The city shall petition Carver County to vacate any necessary right-of-way along Powers Boulevard (CR 17). 4. The townhome units shall conform to the design and architecture as proposed by the applicant in their attached narrative dated Hatch 24, 1993. 5. The applicant shall enter into a development contract with the City and provide a financial security to guarantee installation of the public improvements and compliance with the conditions of approval. The proposed walkway along Powers Boulevard shall be constructed within the development in accordance to the City's typical 8 foot wide bituminous trail standards, unless it is to be relocated within the County right-of- way by Carver County and City. 7. The applicant shall supply detailed store sewer calculations for a lO year storm event for the City Engineer to review and approve. The applicant shall construct an interim sedimentation basin at the store sewer discharge point (Outlot C). The basin shall be sized based on contributing area and land use, approximately 0.30 to 0.50 acre/feet.in size. [n addition, the applicant shall pay a cash contribution into the City's storm water management program in lieu of constructing a retention pond on site for water quality purposes. The City's surface water management consultant, Bonestroo & Associates will determine the cash contribution amount. 8. The applicant shall supply detailed construction plans for sanitary sewer, watermain, street access points and store sewer improvements for the City to review and approve. All utility improvements shall be constructed in accordance with the City's 1993 Standard Specifications and Detail Plates. 9. The applicant shall be responsible for obtaining and complying with all necessary permits such as MWCC, Health Department, Watershed District, PCA and Carver County Highway Department. lO. Parking shall be prohibited along Lake Susan Hills Drive adjacent to this development. The City will proceed in preparing a resolution restricting parking along Lake Susan Hills Drive. 19 City Council Meeting -- April 26, 1993 11. The applicant shall incorporate the City's Best Management Practice Handbook for site restoration and additional erosion control measures durlng the construction process. 12. A cross-access easement should be conveyed to ail the lots for use of the private street. 13. Fire Marshal conditions: a. The marking of fire lane on private and publlc property shall be designated and approved by the Ftre Chief [pursuant to lg88 UFC Sec. 10.207(u)]. See site plan submitted by Flre Marshal for exact location. b~ "No Parking Fire Lane" signs shall be installed as per indicated on submitted site plan [pursuant to Chanhassen City Policy ~06-1991 (copy enclosed)]. c. A 10 foot clear space shall be maintained around fire hydrants, t.e. NSP transformers, telephone, cable boxes, all landscape trees and shrubs. Pursuant to Chanhassen Clty Ordinance. d. Submit a Fire Harshal approved "Pre-Fire Plan", pursuant to Chanhassen City Pollcy ~07-1991 (copy enclosed). e. Add and/or relocate fire hydrants as indicated on submitted site, pursuant to 1988 UFC Division 3. f. Fire apparatus access road shall be designed, built and maintained before and durlng construction of the townhouse unlts. The drlving surface must meet Chanhassen Engineering specifications, pursuant to 1988 UFC 10.207(f). g. Premise identification Policy ~29-1992 (copy enclosed). 14. Building Offlclal conditions: a. Indicate lowest floor elevations and garage floor elevations for each house pad on the grading plan prlor to flnal plat approval. b. Submit details on corrected pads including compaction tests, limits of the pads and elevations of excavations to the Inspections Division. A general soils report for the development should also be submitted to the Inspections Division. Thls must be done prlor to lssuance of building permits. c. Adjust property lines, building sizes, wall openings or a combination of all three to comply with the building code prlor to final plat approval. d. Provide easements for driveways and private roads to a public way prior to final plat approval. 2O City Council Heeting - April 26, 1993 e. Submit proposed street name(s) for review prior to final plat approval. 15. The applicant shall submit sight line details for the northern portion of the development and work with staff to agree on species of trees along Powers Boulevard and internally to the project. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. RECEIVE DRAFT COmpREHENSIVE SANZT~I~Y SE~R ANO I, IRTER P~LI~ PLAN. Charles Folch: Hr. Hayor, members of the Council. These draft documents represent nearly a year's worth of effort by both staff and our consultants on this study. These plan will involve some policy issues on how we plan to provide for future utility infrastructure to serve the community. The intent for tonight's meeting is to provide sort of an executive summary of these draft documents and to basically get. them into your hands for your review. Hore in depth discussion will likely need to occur between the Council, staff and the project consultant prior to finalizing and approving these documents. Staff has recommended and established this as an agenda item for further discussion at an upcoming work session scheduled for Wednesday, Hay 5th. Our projection consultant engineers, Hr. Bob Schunicht and Hr. Phil Gravel of Bonestroo are here tonight to provide you with a brief presentation of these draft documents. Hayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Just one question Charles. For the amount of paper that we have here, are we being compensated accordingly for. what we're paying them in salary? Bob Schunicht: You want Charles to answer that or do you want me to answerI that? We have that discussion a lot when we're preparing our-reports and we say the thinner the report, the more time we have to put into it to give you the information that you need. Not everything that we know. So we"could come with something like that, it'd be cheaper to do it than the short ones. At any rate, we're here tonight just to give you a brief.overview of the comprehensive plans that we did and as Charles said, these plans are-your roadmaps or plans for the ultimate finishing or completion of the city of Chanhassen in accordance withI your comprehensive plan, your land use plan, And really the goals of these plans is to do two things. First of a11, when the city of Chanhassen is finished in whatever ultimate state it becomes, the systems work- Your sanitary sewer system works. Your water system works. You can deliver the product to provide the service that you intended to do when you started this. And the second, and more critical thing is that. the system is paid for. That the systems are paid for as development.occurs and when you getl'donelyou have a little bit of money in the bank to deal with minor.changes and additions that require as you get out 30 or 40 years. So tonight Phil's just gotng to hit-some of the highlights of the plan and then we'll be back here in a couple weeks land talk about them in some detail. Thank you. Phil Gravel: Thank you Bob. What you got in your packet were two reports. You have to look close to realize that they're two separate reports. There's a comprehensive sewer policy plan.with.the sanitary sewer and there's a water supply distribution plan which looks at the water distribution. The two reports look a lot alike because in fact the methodology for preparing them is a lot alike. The first thing we did was look at the land use plan for the city and 21 City Council Meeting - April 26, 1993 projected future development, future population growth, future development trends based on the land use plans and with those we were able to establish our predicted flows for the different areas. Like Bob mentioned, the goals for the reports were to develop trunk sewer and water systems and secondly, to establish funding methods for those two systems. With the sanitary sewer, our first problem was the existing area of Chanhassen is serviced through the Lake Ann Interceptor, which is that orange dash line on there and from the Lake Ann Interceptor the sewage flows into another MWCC sewer which is the Red Rock Interceptor and from there it goes down to Blue Lake Sewage Treatment Plant on the other side of the river. What ue did was ue requested additional capacity in the Red Rock Interceptor from the Metropolitan Waste Control Commission and sometime last year that additional capacity was granted. With that additional capacity, ue are able now to service the remaining area of the city that is presently unserviced via some more trunk sewer and lift stations. There's some question as to whether or not the lower bluff area down here will eventually be served to the north to this MWCC Interceptor that I discussed, or whether it will go west into the Chaska MWCC...The MWCC is doing a facility plan...right now and this area might need to be re-examined in the future as it gets into the MUSA line. The major service area of the sanitary sewer will be in the Bluff Creek area and that will be facilitated by a large lift station that you can see being constructed right now near Lyman and Audubon, at that intersection. You probably all noticed a big crater out there. So that will service. Councilman Senn: What's it been there 2 years now? Phil Gravel: That will service the majority of the remaining area in the city that doesn't have sanitary sewer at this time. Again, with the sanitary sewer and with the water cost mechanism was also established. With the water system, as with the sanitary, ue looked at the future development and established future projected flows. The key thing that we came up with here are two distinct well field locations that I've shown with the orange circles. The two uellfields allow us a little bit of reliability as two separate sources in cases of contamination or a wellfield breakdown. In addition, in each wellfield we're proposing to have two separate depth wells. One going deeper down to what's called the Jordan Aquafir and the other one being shallower wells which you have some out near South Lotus Lake now which are drift aquafir wells. They're not as deep as the Jordan ones. With the water system ue looked at phasing of installation of the new utilities. A result of that will be 3 new water towers which you car barely see by these green x's on here. One water tower in what's called a high pressure zone on Highway 41. Another water tower which will be near the Gateway West Business Park, in the high area along Highway 41 there. And in the future, the water tower will be necessary dow on Lyman to service the southern area of the city once it gets into the MUSA system. As I mentioned, and Bob mentioned also, it was one of the goals of the report to come up with a funding mechanism. To do that we took both plans and ue estimated the total cost to install all the future piping, wells, lift stations, towers, and divided those costs up among the remaining areas to be developed on an acreage basis based on a land use study and with that we've established an area charge for both sewer and water that the report's recommending be charged to all future development. In fact we've used that funding mechanism or that area charge mechanism on Bluff Creek Phase I project that's under construction and constructing that...lift station. We'll have a number of people at the workshop 22 City Council Meeting - April 26, 1993 session on May 5th. The report was prepared by quite a few, helped with quite a few people. We'll bring a few people and be able to go into these in a lot of detall and... Any questions now? Councilwoman Dockendorf: That charge for, that you determined, that will be assessed Z assume on residences that do take use of city water and sewer? Phil Gravel: It's mainly established for new development as they come in. So it's assessment at the time of the well...Okay,'thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Any questions? In talking, I'd just like to throw something out here. I was checklng with Don. For the workshop on Wednesday, 5:00 or 5:30? What's your preference? Councilwoman Dockendorf: 5:30. Mayor Chmiel: 5:30? Councilman Senn: I had Monday down as 5:00 and Wednesday as 5:30. Mayor Chmiel: That's what I had down was 5:30. Don Ashworth: 5:00 Monday and 5:30. Councilman Mason: I would prefer 5:30. Mayor Chmiel: May 3rd. May 3rd I'm not going to be here. Don Ashworth: That was 5:00 on May 3rd and 5:30. Councilwoman Oockendorf: I think Rlchard had a question. Councilman Wing: No, that's. I wanted to clarify something here. As far as the workshop went. Councilman Senn: So 5:30 on Wednesday? Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, 5:30 on Wednesday. Any other questions? Councilman Wing: Yes. I went through the water one and I'm wondering what happened to the presentation that we had here 2-2 1/2 years ago where somebody from the State came in and painted a pretty glum picture and everytime we move this MUSA line we trade off open land for impervious surface. We trade off our ability to collect water and reduce tr. I mean Target 100~ impervious and this new development came ln. Everytime we move the MUSA we get high density housing, subdivision or PUO, they want to maximize the use of the land. That's fine and there's no large lots anymore. Bustness comes ln. Paves everything over. And the fella that was here, and I don't remember when this was done or sald and maybe it was your group that dld it but somebody-came in here and said, you people have got trouble coming up because the water table's not going up. It's going down and if it continues to go down at the peroentage it has over the last decade, you're going to be mining water one of these days. So we keep putting in all these subdivisions and bringing all these people in and paving 23 City Council Meeting - April 26, 1993 over this town but I don't see anything here that says there's even water to provide the system you're talking about and I guess are ue going to be looking at, have ue reached the point where we simply can't provide water anymore and maybe we don't develop anymore? I see all this excitement to open up land for development but I don't see anybody looking to the future to see if ue can provide services to that land and again, ~ heard that the water quality is going down. The water table is dropping. That our well placement wasn't proper. That we're clustering wells. We ought to be spreading them out. Drawing down evenly which you're addressing here obviously. Bob Schunicht: We're also proposing an additional study...kind of a ground water resources audit be conducted. Councilman Wing: That's what I'm asking for. Rather than a recommendation, I guess I'd hate to go any further on thls unless we get thls flrst and assured that there is water and water that's of a quality to drink and that in fact we're golng to be able to supply what we're even talking about here and then let's look at this plan. Phil Gravel: We're very confident that the water's there Dick. Even today we were looklng at some of the bedrock geologic maps and...looking where the drift aquafir sources are. The water from the Pralrle DuChene aquaflr ls there. Councilman Wing: Even with 32,000 people. Population of 32,000 and... Phil Gravel: Yeah, but what we'd like to do with the ground water inventory is to establish more the location of future wells and reserve those spots and look at things... We'd 11ke to flnd more areas of the drift aquaflr wells because those are less expensive to put in. We'd like to have a combination. We fully agree with what Councilman Wing says. The town is growlng so fast that at this time it's really necessary to establish where the future water sources are going to be and acquire that land or reserve those areas and get that all in place. Councilman Wing: I'd like to make sure that gets priorlty because I don't want to be approving poking wells down into nothing or in so deep they become unfeasible and maybe we ought to relook at our development plan. If you're saying there's water there, I'd 11ke to know that. Phil Gravel: Chanhassen's in kind of a unique area because of that 3ordan aquafir that ue mentioned with the deeper wells actually cuts off klnd of at the intersection of where TH 41 and TH 5 is. It slices across at an angle there so Chaska's not ln, it doesn't have the luxury that you do of being able to tap into that and you don't even... It is something that we'd 11ke to study further. Mayor Chmiel: In conjunction with what Mr. Wing is saying, I attended a seminar with the ONR who's had some real concerns as to the numbers of wells that will be golng lnto the ground. And at that tlme I thlnk there was some problems as far as any bulld-up of additional aquafirs. More specifically the Jordan because once you get past the Jordan then you have to hlt lnto the next one which is a considerable distance. Bob $chunicht: That's the Hinkley. 24 City Council Meeting - April 26, 1~93 Mayor Chmiel: Right. The Hinkley would be the next. And they had some real concerns with that. Whether or not there would be enough to be provided for the growth as it continues as such. And they didn't want to go lnto the Hinkley at a11. Bob Schunicht: That's correct. They're most concerned about the Hinkley because that's the deepest aquafir available to the metropolitan area so they do have special permitting required to go down to the Hinkley. It doesn't mean you can't go down there, but you have to have looked for other sources. Now for example as Phil said, Chaska only has the Hinkley available to it so that's where their water supply has to come from. Chanhassen has the drift aquafir whlch ls very good over by Lotus Lake. The Jordan which underlies most the city and the Hinkley also, as a method of last resort so the problem is not the amount of water that's available to Chanhassen. The problem is to get it in the best, most efficient and most economical way and at the same time provide a protected water source for the oity of Chanhassen. Another thing that we'll talk about next, or in a couple weeks is that we're talking about a connection, an lnner connection with Chanhassen and Chaska so the two communities in emergency conditions would have three aquafIrs available to them. Three separate sources of water. The drlft. The Jordan from Chanhassen. The Hlnkley from the city of Chaska too. $o there are concerns about the aquafir but it's more, in our mind lt's more protection, not necessarily that there will be enough water available. Councilman Wing: Can either you Mike or Don help me remember where this came from. I remember there was a chart out and thts fella had said that. Bob Schunicht: It was probably Ron Nargang. Councilman Wing: And he said x feet in the year. Bob Schunicht: Yeah, Ron Nargang. His presentation is factual but kind of slanted toward the side of panic. But not, tt's not. It's a good presentation to get people's attention but I've sat where Kent Lochesmo, who is the Bivlsion of Water's Chief in the metropolitan area and he are at odds about what they say is happening in the aquaflrs. So lt's something to pay attention to and llsten to but it's not something that, and something that we're aware of and know where his data comes from and lt's good data but it really lsn't something I would worry about for the city of Chanhassen. And we could get you some information on that too and tell you where it comes from but. Mayor Chmlel: Gene...I think has some of that information. The hydrologist for the DNR. Bob Schunicht: Yes. Mayor Chmiel: Any other questions: If not, good. We'll look, I don't know if we'll look forward to seeing you but we'll see in the workshop meeting. Yes sir. Audience: How old is the data that you people are using? I remember 5 years ago listening...the data was so old the guy that came in had the gall to come in and say there were 3 wells in Chanhassen... 25 City Counci]. Meeting - April 26, 1993 Bob Schunicht: The data is getting much better as time goes on. The Minnesota Geological Survey has a lot of information available. So it's reported that anybody that drills a well anywhere gcts that data to them and it's all computerized so you can say right nov I want the wells in this section of land and you'll probably get it within the last year or so. So it's like everything else. As you get more information, as you can record it and retrieve it better, you just have to go over there and get paper files and dig through them and try and find stuff and I spent days doing that. Nov you can go over and press a button and it spits it out for you too so things are changing. Data's better available and there's a lot more realization of the importance of data as we see things like wells becoming contaminated and abandoning wells is very important. There's lots of things [hat are changing in the field. The data's pretty good actually. We're got a lot of water here and a lot of data on that water. Councilman Mason: Just a real quick comment. I share some of Dick's concern and Phil I was glad to hear you talking about a ground ware audit. Although that sounds kind of silly. But yeah, I think that's a real good idea and it's nice to see people that the clty works wlth looklng ahead. I appreciate that. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Appreciate it. Councilman Mason: I suppose we should keep these huh? Mayor Chmiel: I think we'd better. They look very expensive. ADHINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: AHH ANNUAL HEETING, CITY MANAGER. Don Ashworth: The Council, oh approximately half of our Council in the past has attended thls. It's a soclal event as well as talklng about activities of the AMM. Their basic program and I guess I was just wondering how many of the council members may wlsh to attend this year. Mayor Chmiel: I'm going to. Councilman Hason: I believe we have a task force meeting that night. May 2&th for our Hlghuay 5. I believe there is. If that's changed, I would kind of like to go to this. But I'll check wlth Paul. Councilwoman Oockendorf: I'd be interested in going as well. Councilman Senn: Don I think I will too but I'll have to let you know. Councilman Mason: One for sure and 3 maybe's. Don Ashuorth: But I understood your's, that if the task force meetlng is that night you would not attend? Councilwoman Dockendorf: Right. Don Ashuorth: No action is required on that item. City Council Meeting - April 26, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: No, right. Just as an informational item. Okay. I'd like to move adjournment and then after that we will go to our closed session. Discussion of the City of Chanhassen vs. DataServ on litigation from our City Attorney. Roger Knutson: Just so the record's clear. It's actually the other way around. It's OataServ vs. Mayor Chmiel: Oh, are they suing us? Thank you. How did we become so vulnerable? Councilman Hason moved, Counciluoman Dockendorf seconded to adjourn the re;ular portion of the City Council meeting. All voted tn favor and the motion carried. The meeting Has adjourned at 8:50 p.m. Submitted by Don Ashworth City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 27