1992 04 13CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL ,
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 13, 1992
Mayor Chmiel tailed the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. The meeting was opened
with the Pledge to Lhe Flag.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Hayor Chmlel, Councilman Mason, Councilman Workman, and
Councilman Wlng
MEMBERS ABSENT: Councilwoman Dimler
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knutson, Charles Folch, Todd Gerhardt, and
Scott Hart
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Mason seconded to
approve the agenda as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEHENTS:
A. PRESENTATION OF "CERTIFICATE OF APPRECIATION' TO ANNETTE ELLSON FOR 4 YEARS
OF SERVICE ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
Mayor Chmlel: I'd like to thank you personally from myself and all the Council
fo) you cont)'ibuLirlg the amount of time that you have to the Planning
Commission. And wlth this I'd 11ks to give you a Certificate of Appreciation.
Whereby the CiLy of Chanhassen as...that's Chanhassen City Council has
officially acted to recognize Annette E11son, Planning Commissioners, from the
Planning Commission. Further that the City Councll has hereby placed into the
offlclal Minutes thls recognition of lastlng expression of it's gratitude of
thi~ c~ty for the ~ervlces that you have provided. Thank you very much.
Annette Ellson: Thank you very much... I think it's a surprise. I didn't join
the Planning Commission for any recognition whatsoever but I'm really glad I
dld. I would urge anybody else who's interested, it's a way of feellng you can
do something for the Clty. You're looking at someone who didn't have a
developer's background, engineering background or anything 11ke that but Z was
able to do, pu~ my two cents worth in there...so I appreciate the recognition.
B. PROCLAMATION DECLARING APRIL 25, 1992 AS KATIE WALKER, CHANHASSEN HOMETOWN
DAY.
Mayor Chmiel: Item B is the proclamation declaring Apr11 25, 1992 as Katie
Walker Day, Chanhassen Hometown Day. What this is basically is Katie is playlng
ulth the University of Minnesota's Women's Intercollegiate, wlth their Athletlc
Oepartment playing ball. In conjunction with WCCO radlo, Hometown Day Salute,
we are golng to be recognizing Katie on April 25th at 1:00 p.m. during the
softball game and I am going to read basically the proclamation that we are
golng to have for her on thls day and then I wlll be presenting to her at
Bierman Field. IL reads, City of Chanhassen, Carver and Hennepin Counties,
Minnesota. Proclamation declaring Apr11 25, 1992 as Katie Walker Hometown Day.
Whereas the Clty of Chanhassen, Hinnesota is actively concerned and involved in
nuturlng and supporting the educational and physlcal development, achievements
Cjt. y Coull:'ii i'i~-.~el.J, il,i~ flf>~"k'l .I.:~, ]?92
o'[ it'::: ~,ai. iu~.~:; a~,d ~'e~:ideni. s~ ;~]~d Hht~rea':o, the acl~J, eve,nents, academically ~r,d
,.;Ll~lctically of ~,u., ~:.tktve ~:ikizt~n.t:. ,.akJ~ Walke~, aye a source of greak
commurl~y pride o~l i,~i. erest a::;' ohe t'epremenls our hometown. In the nation arid
:.;~ kl,e ll¥~J, vcrsi~y of Hinne:sota as an accomplished aht.l, ete and scholar_ Whe~eas,
the t,~Jll ospec:ially be I,o~orcd during cei'~mo~,iec at ~he University of Minnesota
and WCCO Radio :iomekow~ Oays, celebr,.ttion of her acltieveme~lts is ~ep~osentative
,.~f ~.he r,~c:ogr, itJ. o',, OLtF (:iiy sttppo;"l.~;,. No~ l'her'efore~ as Mayor of tl',e City of
Ch,tnl,assen, i'linneso~a, ~ i'~t'eby obtain a,,d declare the date of april ZSti', as
,~Ffit.:;.;.t3 Ka'ki~ Wa].k~ai'~ Ci',ar, ha~';sen Hometown Day in tho city. proclaia,ed by the
c;.iy. COLtllCi] o[ i.h~E. CiLy oi' (.h,'~nh,a:'sson khi:s 13ki~ day of Apr'il, .t99'~,~. ~nd it's
~ ' ' I · · . i i I i
Ll~a~ ¥'epre~eni. our c~ty. The H~n~e~onka i..l~gh School ~s ~e).~ ~ ~ndependen~
Sci~oo~ I)i~"ict ~t~;'. So ~i:]~ 'LI~. I~d ju~ ~.~ ~o gi~e K~e a ~t~e round
Oep;~ri. mF:ni, o[ Ndl.[~r'.~l. ~" ~'.
proclamati, on ~jil.]. bc adopted by the COLtl'I~J]. as ~ell as the Hayor and keeping
A~oor Bay withi~'~ the City
~.hi~; pi"ot':lamat.i.o~ of " .
Reaolution ~92--45.' Hayor Chmiel moved, Councilman Workman seconded to approve
the resolution p~oclalming the month of April as Arbor Honth for the City of
Chanhassen. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
CONSENT AGENDA= Councilman Hason moved, Councilman Workman, seconded to approve
the foIioming consent agenda ~tems pursuant to the C~ty Hanager's
recommendations:
Attthorize Extensio;~ o[ Construction Work Hours for Market Square Shopping
Center Prc)jec;: No. 9?--2.
I). App'rove Ptir-::ha:;;e of New Pump,~; rot 1.2[[ stai. jon No, 2 and 6uthorize Repair
Co i'll. fact
Approval o[ 'ren,pora~y On--O,,ic.-'. Beer L.[c'.en.c;e, Chanhas:.;en Lions Club, May 2 and
'" 1992
[. OrdiT,ance Amending Chap'Lc'r 7. Building Code a~d Chapter 19, Water
B[t;ir'.i. butiol~ and Sewage Disposal, First Readirlg.
9. Resollttion .$92-4~; ArbJtragc ReimbL:rsement Financing, Designate Project
Coordinal. or.
Cor~'fLr,,at.tul, oi I)~.,'-;i91'J,.tl. ion o'[ Ur~u].a l]imler Io the Hazeltine-Bavaria
W,'~ ~ ~-~ ,'--I1 [.~ d iq .'- ,j,'-' m ~'. I]t 0 r ~,.t n .i. z a ,~. i o n,
City Council Meeting -- April 13, 1992
i. Ordinance Amending Chapter 2, Section 2-68(a), Public Safety Commission,
Changing 5 Members to ? Members for Three Years, First Reading.
j. Approval of Accounts.
k. city Council Minutes dated March 23, 1992
Planning Commission Minutes dated April 1, 1992
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
C. WILLOW RIDGE, PROJECT 91-14: APPROVE PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS AND APPROVE
DEUELOPHENT CONTRACT.
Charles Folch: I have handed out to you tonight two pages from the development
contract for the Wlllow Ridge project which contained the appropriate
corrections uhlch are highlighted as such. Basically in reviewing under Sectlon
6 for the securlty amount, inadvertan~ly the cost associated with the [elementry
system set up for the lift station, that cost was omitted in the development
contract submitted in your packet. It should read, the last line item, that
11ft statlon and telemetry system cost of $46,000.00 which revlses the total
cost of the public improvements to $417,660.00 which affects the letter of
credlt securlty amount to now be revlsed to $459,426.00 and on the following
page, which is SP--G, under Section X, the wording basically outlining the cost
sharlng of the telemetry system associated with the lift station has been
modified as such.
Mayor Chmiel: Very good. Thank you. Are there any questions?
Councilman Workman: Is this, everyone in agreement?
Charles Folch: As far as I understand, we're all in agreement with this.
Mayor- Chmiel: If not, I'll make a motion to approve item l(c).
Councilman Wing: Second.
Mayor Chmiel moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve the plans and
specifications and development contract for Willow Ridge, Project No. 91-14.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: ROB CAHO, FORHATION OF A CHANHASSEN JAYCEES.
Mayor Chmiel: Rob and I had some discussions an early morning last week on this
and I thought it would be good if he were to come in and give a short
presentation to the Council making them aware as to what the JayCees can do for
a city. Rob.
Rob Caho: First of ail I'd like to thank the Mayor and also Todd Hoffman for
invit/ng us here to speak a little bit about the JayCees. Okay, the JayCees
flrst of all too also we have one of the flrst members of the Chanhassen
JayCees, Roberta Johnson and a resident. Berta. Okay, the Minnesota JayCees
are a young person's organization from the age of 21 to 39. We have per~onal
growth through community service. We feel the need in Chanhassen area for the
C{.i"' Cotn~'['l i'ir;.r~i [ncj ?:pi ii J3, 1.99;.'
.'lay£ee~ ;:l~rl u~e:;r'e uJ.i. iling i.a ~;ome eel. hei'e and try Lo help tt~e J;:~yCees to ge'i;
:::i.;.~r'lu~i l~ ;.I~i.~ ,'i~'r!a llO(.:~Ll:.~e Wy: think tl~;tt. [l~e young peopl, e l~eed something to do
i.~ th:~ xr-~-~a ,;~(i ':'he Cii. y ,salt '-~i.1 b~of.i.t 'from the ac:tiorms that the Oaycees can
clo. .'lur~i: ~m same o1' ti',~ c~m'~:~'.; ~ha'l the JayEoes I~ave do~e J.t~ ju~ ].ike a BJ. ayole
'.;df cry Rodeo. ci~i.ld Abduction Prevention progi-am~. %potlsorJ. n9 Little League
i.r~,:..ms. Tie,key Lr-~ms~ A].i i. he diffoi-ent spoFts. SCllolal',.~h.ip fundo. We I'mavr~..~
We do a ].et of park improvements and I think that's one thing that the City
cr~tsl, d m'r-~a]..1..y I~e~r.~i'.i.L fm'Omn ti'~a'L ,',l'ea beaa~se wa do a lot of park imptove~ellt~ and
,~ .lei o J vr,] ~t~,~eer war k ,~nd ;~.l.~o '~.l~e mon~e,~ dm~d stuff .is ¥"aised thi-ougl'm
Ll~e .]ayOe¢::s OI'D;.IIIJ. Z;ti.J. OII. Tile Hayo,' '!' lhink I'~xs been a JayCe3 a( one t.[me too
i~.tm:';etf z~ntl hs coklJ, d probably i. eJ~ 7au a fe~ ti~ngs ll~oi-e 8boLt'( the 5ayCeeu.
H,.=,XOF {;1~mi~;!" I'lt~(Ii (<,:] ?.'.:,'J ,' :; ago.
Rob (;aho: Yeah.. But w,'; also do ,.~ lot. of family, J.t is men ai~cl women ai~d ~e do
;z lot of :~;o~;i,~].r~ ta 9of. l.u~eLhel s and :¢t~zff fo~' the family [o go camping, t.ike
4th of JuJ. y picll.[ou, rl.tfferent errants /.ike that. Be a~so do incl~v~dLtal
r',ev~Lopmel~t. ~l~:Lcl, .i.l~dj.u~d~.t,tt] devr:J, opmr;r~f, ~JO bT:i. ng .~n speakers as far as
t~l. fur:::..; m~r~¢tge~ir~ellf, ti. me ,~ah,~g~,~el~1. ;-~(l :3o oil to bu.~J.d ].oaclet's J. il the coamun2tF.
And Z th'[nk ~.t wi1.] i~e].~ LI~o t,~l,oJs ~:~.[y and tile .'J,~yCoo organization, fit th~s
t.i.m~ ~o ;-tee uJor'k~.rlO o~ I~uJLdii~g :, c:llap'ter_ ~;'re go.tn9 flea door 'Lo door and
u~:'l'(-: d].:-:o ,~3ki~g for I'l::)l; i ll~'ougi~ i.i~(; community to find young people that wot.t~d
be Jrlt::'.r~e:ted J~ the JayC,3(~s. (It t.h~s [~ae i'd jLtS~ ~kke to 'te~t anybody that
.;~ '1. i~:;, WoLtJ.('J ].~k~, OF (h(~}' knou~ ~l~Fbody .Jr~ tho ;90~ t.o pi. case g~ve us a ca~l.
'~']~ ].cave i:l~e.~ I~umb~.;r with ill(: Hayer al~d sLuff to get a ho~d of us and stuff and
'llF;bJ,;j)~lpf-~f' ~o 9E"~ ~l. :-;'i.~ Led, go ~:'d t~k:~ 'Lo thank you for hav&n9 us here.
i'i,-~yoi' Clem'Er,;1.; 'lhdr~k you. flpproc:L~l:e, you cem.i.~g (iow,,,.
PUBLIC HEARING- FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR TRUNK UTILITY IHPROVEHENT TO THE UPPER
BLUFF CREEK ~REA~ AUTHORIZE PREPARATION OF PLANS AND S__PECIFICATIONS-PRO2ECT NO.
91-17 ~CONTINUED FROH
public Present:
Name Address
,16'1' o111 ¢. (],t'm" J
Bol'~ Wot l hi'ngioll
rom itici~e].
E~,7:;;,1 Audubon Road
69s0 Galpin Dlvd.
O,~'.i]. ALtduboli Road
Opu~ corpoxa~ion
8941 Audubon Ro,-td
El~,-.~r].e?; Foluh: Al. the l~t'eViOLtS public heu'rin9, thc Cour, cil directed staff to
r'ev.lew the iiin~tt¢:u af the f,l.tblLc: I'lear~.n9 ,xnd pf'ovJ, de wrilten rind verbal.
'r'nspor~s~:.: 'it) the r'e].eval~t ClUOStJ. o~13 [hat were raised. 'mZ'll start off by
;.t(Idrr;ssJ_ng the, t,~obabJ, y ii4e most common ooi~(;of-ll and questJ, orl that was raised at
'i.l~H;. pub].ic: i'lea'r'i~9 ,.ts it relates to the large lot, small acreage homesteaded
Iiol,by f,'.t'r'm type stLu4tLions el: ,:.~ppr'oxJ. mat. eJ.y 1.0 acc'es or less. In response to
.~h~: ~'r'opo-rl.y ~¢W'llem-s w~'ti~ i'l'lOS¢.: L'.t')ll~J~'f'l/[3 ~1ll¢l bas;ed on p~-evJ, om~s aotJ. or~ takeil by
'1,,_: [:Ottll~.;.~.l. oil s:~ll.¢.l_a'r' I.,i oje(;t.:'; i i1 t h.~.s :;itLtatiorl, J.t is proposed that tl~ese
paT'ce_ts with on~.~ unit o~ one dwelling orl them be i'l~it:~H.lly ,.~sc:es:¢¢~,d one unit
Council Hoe~.i~lg-- ~pril 13, 1992
associated with the project. If at some time in the future further development
would occur within any of these properlies, they would be charged a trunk
hook-up charge for the remaining units based on the current trunk hook-up rate
at that particular point in time. And again this policy is consistent with what
the action Council is committed to on recent projects that have come before you.
3ust to go through some of the numbers. I'll just basically reference the 10
parcels that are affected by this decision. They would be the Stockdale
property, the Raser, the $chmidt's, the Wanninger, Johnson, Wrase, excuse me if
I'm pronouncing any of these incorrectly. Paulson. Gateway Partners. Bongard,
Michel, Entinger and Molnau properties. There's 10 properties that would flt
within that category. Going down through the Mlnutes, the first speaker, Marion
Michel, 8941 Audubon Road. Raised concerns about the high cost of'the proposed
assessment that would potentially force her off her property. Agaln, she has a
net assessable acreage of 10 acres or less and therefore would fall under the
category of belng assessed one unlt at thls point in time. She also mentioned
that her property is currently under green acre status and as such, any
assessments levled agalnst the property would be deferred. And it has been the
Council's verbal statement at the prevlous hearing that any assessments levled
against the green acre properties, the assessment would go deferred wlthout'
interest accrual. Basically the future trunk hook-up charges would be charged
at the current rate at that point in time. So that basically addresses those
two concerns raised.
Mayor Chmiel: Point of clarification maybe with that. Untll such time that
individual were to either subdivide or change from that category, green acres,
Then they would be responsible for those costs at that time.
Charles Folch: That's correct. That's correct. Wayne Bongard of 8831 Audubon
Road basically expressed concern over the large assessments against his 10 acre
parcel. Again he would fall within that category of the ~ unit assessment as
would Doug 8arinsky at 8731 Audubon Road. Ron Entinger of 8851 Audubon Road
also lives on a parcel of less than 10 acres in size. He also questioned as to
whether his property should be assessed at this time since no trunk sewer will
actually abut his property. It is staff's contention that he may be and should
be assessed at thls polnt in time since the trunk infrastructure, including the
lift station, is being constructed at this point in time and at such time
there's a future lateral that would servlce property, he would be assessed for
the lateral at that point in time. Don Patton of the Lake Susan Hills
Partnership submitted a letter to the Councll questioning whether or not the
sewer that [heir development had stubbed underneath ~udubon Road to the west
slde would be used. In answer to thls question, it's our understanding that the
proposed Chanhassen Business Center, a portion of that development is planning
on making use of that sewer link that was provided. Mr. Patton also had some
other questions related to the definition of a trunk hook-up charge and the
lateral connection charge whlch I explained that night at the meetlng. Mr. A1
Klingellmtz spoke on behalf of Mr. Earl Holasek who owns property west of Galpin
81vd. and south of County Road 18. Wanted to know why the property is proposed
to be assessed associated with this project and including that he felt that the
topography of hls land would be better suited to be served via a system from
Chaska. At this point in time, staff is requesting authorization to order' ~he
project for, order the phase i portlon of the project uhlch Mr. Holasek is not
included in and would not be assessed accordingly. In the next coming years
when phase 2 would be proposed, we can again look at and evaluate the situation
~.~.:::~,c:i;tt~.¢J witJ, ;'1~. Jlo].~.t~-:ek'~: p'rop~rty, Jr~c:~Lud.il~g i.>r(~b~tl)ly knowing mo~'e about
r, os~bil.~'J:>' o~' noJ.. BLt'L ~t. t.l'~].u po.iht ~n 'L~me the~'e'~ ~s~ooia'Led ~.ith phase
tJ~r~e i~ no I~rOpo~s~d a:~se..~sm~:~ll~ to be levied agaJ. nsL the I~o].c~sek property.
L arJ'y g~nDege.~re) 4980 CR LO East ~n Chaska o~ne p'roperty north of TH 5 and ~est
of lake ~ P,~r[(. He exp~'er~sed GOrlce~rll~ aboltt tJ~e ZOllJ. l'lg cl~seJ, ficaf. J. on of hie
prope~'L7 in co~jttnctio~ ~i'Lh the prOgl-esS o'[ Lhe corridor ~¢tudy fro" TH 5. It
t,;,:~:~¢ exp].a, Ln~-~d L~)Hr'. gLtl'~Oeg~.~it'~:~ [Jla[ nLgJl~ t. haL J~e i;oo i~: ol~J.y ~ssociated ~ith
y[~,.t]'~ wl'~en 'l:l'~,,~ i,~'o~ec:~ u(~uJ.d be b~.t~;J, caJ. ly un the tab].e fo~' revlew, we should
kT~OW ,mo~'e al)out s()me (~f the i-e~ults coming from the TH 5 corr,.der ~tudy a~
womt]d ,~ffec;; pot~-~l,I..t,~ ZOll~llg state,ts for tJ~a'L propei-t~ tidal he owrm~;. Hr. Henry
~i-st;;e of 8~Z5 Fl,~z(t!ttne 8ou].eva'~d a].L~o stetted 'Lliat he has a parce.t of less than
.1.,:) .~ur~s amid Iioweve~r he I'~ Lwo (Iwel].ings Oil J.L. tte was Lo].d Lhat mlight of the
,~nei. im'~u th;t h~ would be a~tsessed one uni~ for each of Lhe dwellings that exlst
on tl~e pioj~e~';:,/, t,Ji.].mr,m' hlo.].~,am~ of 8541 Am.tduborm Road (l~es~.J. oned whethel' his
assessments ~JJ..t.t be d~fe~'~:~d un'ti.~ he hooks up of l~ot. kle also owns one of the
p,-~rcn].~ fi. ti. Lng uitl'm.i.h tJl~;' .t,:l ~.:re of ].et~:s c,~tegory~ Therefore, (ane u~m.tt
J)e ;.~soecL~ed ,~gaJ. rmst 't he pr'opcrty unt L1 ,;~lch 't:[~i~e Lhat devolopn, e~t woulcl occur
th~, fkttl}rr~. It~l~t; liLtg~)rl o~ I-J,~ll~ Hagr~n Home~ te..~tlf.t~(J oi- I',e b~sLca].1y has
I.,U~'ch~t:ed d~-~vclop,~ellt l"ights to the property no~-th of the Twin C.tties Western
R;:~iJ.i'o~d, i,~,~,ediat~].y w~s~ of r. he B1uff Creek col'r.Ldor and lie basica1.ty
'Lc~f~tJfiect Lhat. j,(~ i~'; il~ favor of the project arid wishes to be included as a part
()'i: thr~ pl~;~se i deveJ.op,~e,~t proposa1.. H~'. Bob Wu~'tl'lJ. ngk()rl of Opus Corporation,
~.~ho J:~ a partner' .tn LJ~ development of some office indus'Lrial pa'rk located south
()f TH 5 ~nd ~.~;~ot of TH ,ii. expr~ssed concerr~ ~J~aL the apparent rates for
~[:j~.';i~h[;r~:s;{el',':' ::c=~.j~:~i' ,~.::~z~;~;ir~:~]~Ls t.(') commercial a]~d Lnd~JstYial properties were
I~LgJ~er than (~'i.l~,~r' commul,LtJ, os thaL I~io corpor~t~.Lon has worked in. In trying to
r,;se~rc:J'~ LhJ. s ,~,d dJscus~irlg, contacting other communJ.'Lies, what we found is
ti,aL th~rc'r~ ,'~ v,zrLety ()f dj.'fferen~ meLhodr~ with wi~ich com~,u,-,if.J~)s L~se to assess
t j'~:~se r,~L~:.. Tl'~e~'e'~: d.tffe'rer~t.ta1~: in i~ou they determine the tale. Deteri~ined
I~:J.c,zlJ. y tl,~ r~u~ahe~ ~f pote~lLLL~J. LLnitS to gener;~te fi om a p~'opel-ty. So it was
v~ry diffJcL~1t io Lak~ the numbe~-s that they give yo~ and ].ook ,~t j.l. and be able
J.o c:(~mp/.~i'~ &ppJ~.~:: 1. o Lzpp.t~s ;:~l'~d oraliges to (~ranges with I~ow Ch,~nhassen's rates.
But flo~, whaL we can deteT~J~le, we would estimaLe that Bob is probably correct.
Chanh[sscen's comm~cL~tl raLe:s now, are pl-obably about ~. ~/2 Lo possibly 2 times
~o're titan som~.~ of ethel' communiti~s that we've talked to. However, staff's
b~;11ef theft ~l,c~'e'~; .,~ I~umbei' of factor's th~:tL affect why tllis is happening.
I,l,.~,ber one beJr',u ti~at Ch~nl'~a;;s~n's 'Lopography ls ~'eally ur~ique. One of the
'th~_~,g:¢ theft w~e do ';.n (J~.~tr~rm.Ll~.tng or unit g~)ncrations f~'om a prope~"l.y ~:~ to
:~;~bt~'act out unbuJJ, dabJ. e topographic areas that ate too steep for slopes. We
&Is,:) sLLbtract o~t wet,ands. Other commkLr,~ties may liave rates that basically ~ou
ju,:'[, app!y to ~';~w ac:~eage wlthoul: c:onsJde~-~.n9 those factors. We also have ir~
OLtr, tlc J.L ~tfF~;t:-~ thJ. s genera]. 8].uff Ct'~ek ut~.tity region, ,& icl of area and
],}~d tl,at's .tos'J. to the [11 2J.2 corridor. Basically tl~ose are again lands that
wj.1], not 9e~,er&te al,y ~znJts fi'om them for a~ses~mel~t purposes. What we've ti'Led
to do with C:har~hassen's ~ystem is design ~ sy~tem Lhat meets the capabilities of
1:1-,~ ne~;rl~ of Lhe se~'vic':~ ,'~re,~. Oetetmir~e a faJ. r e~tLmate as to what units could
?,o::s.tb].y I~e generated ~nd frei, that detcr~,ine what cost is needed to ~'ecover
tho'.,;~-: exj)r:n(J.tLl.~i':~'.~. T~kJ. n9 &ii those factors into con:;ider~tion h~s produced
'the $970. pei' u'~iL for sew~.l' ~d ~.~ ,275. ~)er' L~n.tt For water' which we have
propel;ed ~l-~('l (}1~;() t,~.kJ, ll9 ~.1'~1:o c()~sJderatlon the .4 L~nJ. ts per acre fei' commei-cia~
;nclk~str'Jal dens.'~ty. Mr.. I],~vJ. cl Stockda].e of 830~ Audubon [~o,~d questioned whether
City Col~llCi]. Meeting -- April 13, 1992
his properly was being assessed twice since he was assessed as a part of the
Audubon Road project. In reviewing the files, it was apparent that Mr.
Stockda]e was assessed for lateral sewer charge as associated wlth Audubon Road
project and hls property has not been assessed for the trunk improvement. So
therefore there's not a double assessment against the property. Councilman Wing
raised the question of why the Timberwood Addition was not included as a part of
the proposed assessments. Paul Krauss, the Clty Planner addressed those lssues
verbally that night. Basically eluding to the fact that commitments and
considerations were glven to these development areas at the time that the
Comprehensive Plar, was going through the amendment process. That's I believe
addresses the relevant questions that were raised the night of the meeting. At
this point in time it's staff's recommendation that the Co~ncil authorize
preparation of plans and specifications and the EAW for Phase I of the project.
Phase i would incorporate that area wlthin the Bluff Creek region which would be
south, between Twln City Western Railroad wlth the exception of the Hans Hagen
property who has asked to be included as a part of Phase 1.
Mayor Chmiel: Good. Thank you. As I mentioned before, this is a public
I~earing. I [hink everyone had an opportunity the last time to address the
lssues. I'd 11ks for anyone who would 11ks to provide us wlth some additional
testimony at this meeting, to come forward now at this time and address the
lssue. Hopefully if there's something new than what was previously discussed at
the last meeting, we do have the Council meeting Hinutes of that and have had
the opportunity to review those as well. So at thls tlme I'd like to open the
public hearlng for anyone to come forward and bring up their thoughts or
concerns. Please state your name and your address.
Doug Barinsky: Sure, Doug Barinsky, 8731 Audubon. Just a point of
clarification Charles. You read a 11st of 10 names that were in the small
acreage. You didn't call my name then but you did later. Was that an
oversight? I want to make sure Z'm on the right list.
Charles Folch: Yes, that appears to have been missed from the first list that
I have but it ls, you are listed on the.
Ooug Barinsky: For one hook-up?
Charles Fo].ch: That's correct. We'll make note of the correction.
Doug Barinsky: Okay. Second question or point of clarification. When you're
assessed for the trunk hook-up, what happens when you adjoln the trunk as far as
lateral charges? Is that a separate assessment?
Charles Folch: That's a separate assessment, that's correct.
Doug Barinsky: And that's assessed for each housing unit that gets hooked up to
the trunk?
Charles Folch: That's correct. As a connection charge.
Doug Barinsky: When, if this project is approved, are you planning to do this
work? Is there a tlme table that's?
Ellar.l. aL-; ['olc;Jl: ',.~i,..;J.c.-~.~Jy 'Ljl~-; Lut,'.?r'a/L illfr;'~:-;~r'LLC:'~UrC '[ac.Ll.[ti,~c would be
COn:sl. rLLcLc¢I OJ'l ,'111 ,'.Lf~ 11(3L!(J~d b,~:s[:'-; '[o'r' p~'ot,ert./o.~ tile1: t,Jou].d w,:tnt or desi'r'a to
Lip Li'I thir: F, oint in I.j. me.
LloLt,..~ Bai'[ll::~k?; B~tt the t,'~tnk lil~:, uillen .i.s thaL pr'opos~.~.d?
Ci~ar].~'..o Folci~.' Phase i J.:; proposed Lo be construcLed ;.h'i.s yea'r. During the
.'l'~..f~)mu (tar]..':;u'n: 3'~'fumr: C:a'~'3oii, 5950 6a_qLpJn BoLtle. v~¥d, et Roacl de. pend~llg on
t.!hc:l'l~ni' it's Ex(;~..1.:~ioi oi Chani~,.t:~:-~-;r,. Which is alriother £ssu~. Posta~ issue.
~¢,-t.'-.; ~',r,'l he. re tl~e !a:-::'t. ti.m,::, i'm sorry. Hy u.ife ,-:nd ):. ~er'e gone. We have
p~of,,,-.~'t>, ur 26 act-:.;~ ;.,,t 8280
~l~:~.3:...,. ~ of-l~t-,;.t:::,,., '._,? l' thouglit T heard yo~ say thfst ev~.rythin9 was south of the
r,.',i].fo,:,d r..'.x(:e, pC fei' '.~;om,'_'.
L~ol;, $ct~LtnJchL: Y~)u'r property is in r, hase 2 L~nd i.t;s also in green acres.
.]ur'omc C.,:trJLson; I.~.i_ghl.. So u;?. ,}re not ~ffe. ci:ed at this point'?
t', .I i ~ .
,s(.,t.', '.'~OJll.tl-l.i Cfi'. '[, ha'L 'r; uor', e(.:'L.
.'f.':rome £:;&1']so~- YJial]k yo~t gr.'ry milch.
i.~o~, En1:j.l~ge'r :['"I, Roi-, Cntir,::jer at ,~85t Audubon Road. :['m wondering, dicl .~
Itll,:.'JOl'::;1. d. li,:J f'~.ghl thai: .if yOLt'r' ].and is il'l g'r,?.efl ,".(;,'.'-;.'-; tho a~;sr.;.~;:3mellt is deferred
t:;:t;,. [~-,.::r.? ~hc', ir ;.,(,u're. not u~de.'.i- grec'.n ecl'es: it's a payable assessment nail?
.-.r_:-~ t h,.~t, correct?
(':liar Jr,.(-: FoJcJ~: '[i~a( "u ,::o'~'rr.:c:t..
Roi, Er, lillgeF: 'Cf' tile, woLt].d it cl~ange il you wer'~; I,o[ green ac'res now but you
we:re uefy ~;ho~'tly, ,~ould it be d.¢..fe,'red o,' i',o~ ~ould yott handle that?
l;:or:,.-.:r l(nutsofl' 'ri,,.-. as:sessment hearing t~llic;h will adopt the assessment roll
t, Jon't takr; placu Ltl~f.i.]. ~h~.u rall itt tl~: earliest. I'm iiot ~;t.ti-e what the
.":nh~.rJLtl.p. iS .. Wi].]. i IL be '~. his fall?
(;llar].=s Folcl~: P,-ubalJ.l.y i';t].], of 1993.
Roger i<nutson: So yoLt:Ue got at least Ltnt~l 'lhen, ll,e 'tall or 1993 to got in.
Be green acred...
Ro~l Entinge'r': Ok~.~y, Ll'larlk you.
13nb H~),'tllillglon' H,'. i'l¢.~yor, membe, r~: of the Council. T.'m Bob Wor"~hir~gton. We
d,:)n'L I'~av{~ ~llylhJ. ng lle~ to add. We're kind of ¢l.isappointecl ~.tth the conclusion
th.t'l: ~,',.'..: ~.,.:,.~.cl,ad u¢ll.i, oh .ill effect says, yes we are lflOl'e eXpel~sive but we've got
::::imp.. !1hi,fLit: ,'ca:_';oi-,:L: '[o~- b~'.'i.f~g that way. ft's in tr:.'.i'as el: oo~li, e'roia], industrial.
City Council Meeting --April 13, 199Z
property. We think that retards and is going to be have a detrimental affect
upon trying to locate businesses within the city of Chanhassen at the outskirts
of the town as it now exists. Especially when you look at some of those other
communities who are going to be competing for those businesses and who probably
will be the first choice. I'm hopeful that between now and the time that you
adopt that assessment roll, that ue have more opportunity to explore and
investigate ways to reduce those costs and Rerhaps even in some way or another
try to defer some of those costs until development indeed does begin occurring
on the property.
Hayor Chf, iel: Good. Thank you. Anyone else?
Tom Michel: I'm Tom Michel. I live at 8941 Audubon. And I have a couple of
thlngs that I don't think were answered, at least not to my satisfaction so far.
I'm on, I have to check here. I'm on Parcel 32. And as I understand lt, the
sewer' projec~ that's gding in ls going to have a, whatever you call it, a force
flow golng from the pump statiorl down on Lyman whlch would go up just past the,
oh not that far. Rlght at the edge of the lined out thing. Beyond that that's
an e].evation is qulte a bit more. I don't know how many of you are famlllar
with that. I think Tom's probably been out in that area and has some idea.
Anyway, those parcels whlch would lnclude the 6ram's property, Barlnsky and
Willy Molnau, would drain into the sewer because of the elevation. Now down
below that, the 3 parcels down below, as I understand from the englneer would be
served by a, I have a problem because our house is probably 30 feet below the
h111. In additlon to that, you lnclude the basement another 10 feet, now I'm
down 40 feet below that road. Now I did mention it to the engineer. I don't
know if he looked at it or not. When I had a chat wlth hlm earller but lt's
difficult for me to belleve that I could hook up to that. His response is
they're golng to put a return on the other side of the road there from up on top
down to the lift station to draln the stuff off of the hill down to the pump
station and then pump it back up on top of the hill so it would flow, I assume
gravity from there to wherever it's going. I still don't see any reason for the
people that have, I don't know, 6 to 10 acres in that one area has been excluded
from this regardless of what they're built from. It's not the same thing as a
Timberwoods although I don'[ really agree wlth that elther. That regardless of
what they were built under. If you're assessing that area, it should include
everybody in there in my personal opinion. But what I'm saying is they're going
to put this in now. In the event that at some future date which I wouldn't even
probably be here, that I wanted to hook lnto that, I'm not too posltlve I could
even hook lnto it if it was there. I think that water, I mean water will go
uphill under pressure but sewer will not go up there unless you have some way of
making it r-un uph111 and I'm not convinced in my own mind that it will end up
golng that way. Plus the fact that everybody else down there below that,
according to the city's own recommendations, everybody on the west side of
Audubon, would not be involved in there so they're runnlng a return from 3
pieces of property on the east side of Audubon for the purpose of taking sewage
down. Now Wayne Bongards whlch ls just above me, is a brand new home. Ron
Entinger who is just to the .east of me, that's also a brand new. I admit we've
got an old house. Pret'near 100 years old. But I guess my question ls, exactly
what is it going to serve? Becau. se it's not going to serve anybody over there.
It's going to be let's say 20-30 years before it affects anybody on the east
side except for perhaps me. I'm just wondering is it worth the cost to do that
or put it in. How are you going to get a return from putting an extra drain
,'.:.1' ';'.i~L~I. ]~'~.].! clf..Jt,Jl~ i.o L, yflla, l'~? NOW J_'~' ~. ~,,J,-'~.'.'.; I~Lt'r-'i.J.l~ rOI'
i.l.'~?~.,, cI,,,Ec.].' ',-",.:.,,',,.;: ;~,::.~;.L¢:olly on green ~¢;~'e~; 'r'igh'l i~ou~ J.s ~hat correct?
(]~.',,'~y~ goo(J. ~.;i~,'.~'~-.].;':'~ :;,'t~, yOU
~.'.ll:trl. c'~; ;-'o.l. ci~' Y.~.,~t b,'.:~. Fir-. HJchc! ls correct. Fie uould r~ot be able to
(:Onlle.(;t Lo LI,~tl. For(.'emLt.~r~ uii.Lcll L:{: pl'opo:sed to be constr'ucted a].ong Au(t~zbon Road
~d I~;.r~ p~'op~"r't.~' .[:.; :'~:;g~J. fJ.c:ant.]y ].ouer [ha~ the existing elevation of Auclubon
Road ~hat ~-uns ,~].ot,~ [~.Lf~. ~lis pi-upe~ty. }-Iouevei', to serve hi:} property, ~['le
[rl~i. Jl~ge~ pr'ol:,e~ty, died thn Bo~g~'d property, if ['t ever J.s needed in the future,
.t ]oc,~l latter,ti, lJl~ uo~zJ.d be c.:OllSt~'u(;tecl p~obabJ, y Alon,g L. yfn~n ~].vd. ,~nd then up
9r,zv.[l.y d~t,Jn l~, ~:l~r.~ J.LF'L :st rtl. :Lon al~d Ll~an ['~,~tvn to be p~tlnped izp through the
r~rce~,,aJ~,_ T :ne~:t~: topography, ther'e'o no othe~ a].ternatj, ve~ for to serve those
:,rof,~.:~'L:Le~, [~(L ,<t :come point ir, [.[.mr:> ,~ fuLul'r~ ~,~ter.:t]. gr~v~ty ].Lne would need
· t() I:,e c'f)l~:':fT'~tC:'i:e¢l t,Ji'~ :;[~rv~r:e .tO; neecle(I t.() those properties.
i'i;~y~),- cl,lni,'-:].- Okay. 'i_l~,~lik yo., [$ th,'.;r'e ;:,nyun~ o'.la.'::? Seein9 1]orle, (.'.an I I-~.~ve
.-~ I[Io~i. oi~ ~, c]ou.e. 'i~c'., ,,L[I~].~C: hea'r~ng?
Councilman Workman moved, CouncJ_lman Mason seconded to close the public hearing.
~11 voted J]~ favor and the motion carried. The public hearing uas closed.
Cou,',r:ilmar, Wo'r',.,~an: I',~ :~a;.'be not sur'c uhat. Hr: Hicl]e]. ~:'_-~ g~.~.tting at. Haybe
1.1~c. :::.imp]'.; po.il~; .;:.-: t.h,'.~t, ul]y i'un it doul, thele .if ~e're not. going to use it?
~i~>, run J.t do~ll there ,.~t this poJ. nt? ~a..~.: a ..~1mple :_-'.~mmary of uhat he'S'?
CIi6'~.l_;.'::.; [-'oJ_cl~ W(,ll., .if [~',.; ,, Iil~ttLer' of t)e.r~e f:[ l: at tl~is poLnt 1tm tLme, thei-e
i:: be~efJ, t because the 1i[t :~tatJ. on armcl the '[orcemaj. n is Ltltimately going to
r;(:Fv~; tJlo~';e [)i'o[)r-~l'L~r):~ ~JlreFleV~l' I:hey ~:onlieg'L_ He's I/Or be~l~(j .:~:;:;~ssed, proposed
'Lo t.)e a~:~,:~,:;e~l fo~' ]ate~t]. L,~p~'ovemen'Lr; ~::~;ociated ut'th thi~ ~roSr~ct. That
~tL,:] l~¢: ~', :-;e[,;:[',}[{_ imp; OV~lll[)lll: r,~ojr~ct al ,'~ la,ur' date ir~ time which would be
ba~fca]ly ~:se~:::::td For ~c:cord.~ngly. T[mttr[t 10 ~o probleln assessirmg those
p~-ol)ertJc:; o~- there':-; I~o problem ~sei'VJll9 those properties vi~ sewe~' ~i'th the
the system hA~-.: t,;:n]~ cm.~rr~nt'ly desigrmed. The ulmole topography in fact, if you
l(~ok ~t thee m~',jom [)(~['~(J)l nf i.h~t ~hoJ..e ~;ervJ. ce ~t'~,~ fur I)llase 1 ,'~nd please 2,
,:~11 fl. ouf; by gravj, ty doun to t. he ].J Fi station located just soutl~ of Lyman there
,'~;d [~lel'm {t'u I)m[lllpe('i bA(;k up ;.ll[O i. ll[' I..,~ke Am'ih ~mltel'oupl. oi'.. Z'~'8 just a natural
],'~y oF thc. l[~r~d. Zt's ~-;11 flo~Jm~9 tl~at [~y and ~e t~ave to get 1~ back Ltp to the
no,~r~:::~ tr~k L~Ler~;eptor t',.~cJ.l.'T.[y ulrich :ts the L.,:~ke h~n
i0
City Council Heeting -- April 13, 1992
Councilman Workman: The Barinsky property is going to be included the same as
everybody else in green acres?
Charles Folch: If his property's in green acres, that's correct. But I think
the poil~t that Doug brought up was that he should be included in the 1 unit
assessment at thls point in tlme, uhlch he's correct. We've noted the
corr'ectJon.
Mayor Chmiel: That 1 unit assessment cost, that's $2,245.007
Charles Folch: That's correct.
Councilman Workman: I guess then my only or my final point is that I was sort
of, I guess the summary or the comment on the Opus question. I guess I would
lJke to know or better understand how or why we are a little blt hlgher. It
does have some serious, well that should matter to the individuals that are
paylng two. Not just the people that are paylng for larger but this memo dldn't
summarize that very well and I hate to think we're going to go ahead and approve
~11 thls klnd of ulthout really understanding what that ls. But maybe lt's
something we can't do anything about anyway.
Charles Folch: Unfortunately it does appear that it's that way. We're
basically taking pure costs that are associated wlth doing the needed
improvements and basically saying that the properties that need these
improvements a~d benefit from these improvements should pay their way and that
basically the rest of the community, from a general tax base should not be
funding these improvements. The costs associated with the improvements should
go to the benefitting properties generating the need.
Councilman Workman: So why then would we be 2 1/2 or 3 times more7 What would
we be dolng different?
Charles Folch: Well basically, like I said, it's difficult to determine. Some
communities basically have a unit rate based on raw acreage. We subtract out
wetland. We subtract out steep slopes so our rate is based on net developable
land so if we're saying that based on net developable acreage, a commercial
property could develop 4 unlts and us're charging $970.00 for sewer unlt,
another community may say well, we don't take into consideration wetlands and
topography but we charge ~ units per raw acreage and then based on our lower
rate, maybe it's somewhat close. Maybe it's not. It's tough to compare apples
to apples in this because there's different methodologies used in approaching
this. Also a lot of it too is constructing costs. It depends on the tlming.
Sonle of the communities had a lot of development occur over the last, majorlty
of Ihs developmerl[ occur over the last 5 years and have developed rates based on
those costs and maybe those costs are st111 carrying over at this polnt in time.
Whereas we're dealing wlth real tlme costs associated with major development at
this polnt in time. And again, property lost to, we are losing a significant
amoul~t of property to the TH 212 corridor. If you took the entire area that is
mapped, officially mapped, that probably equals the area of a whole full
section. ~00 to ?00 acres. That basically the only units uill be generated
from. And in terms of construction cost, you st111 have to carry pipe a
certain distance. You still have to put it in the ground a certain depth. All
11
!.he:-';:.': inl':::,'¢~:lll, uo:::t.$ .:~'e'..,'t r'f:duco(J from the fact of ].o:;Jng 600 to 700 acres of
].,'-lrl({ [11 a s~:r'v[ce ,:ti ea.
F,'c~;'i l(l~ui::~.~'-' 3u':--;t 't(~ make a (lUiC:k comment on that as well. Working in
sevct',~], col,lm,.ti,il..Les. One of tl,e Lhil,gs it's l]aid to compare what one c~ty does
wJtl', ammo'tiaa.ti'. Some thim'JUS gat paJ.{l oitL of spec:iai assessments irm some
~'omm,tniti. a::'; whe~'e i.l~ al~othet c:omm~lni'ky it's Loaded lip or, cormllrecLiorm charge or it
c:an be loaded df:', on ~';e~ ll~t~i' 'fee:;. Cetrtain things oan be :~pun off from one of
Li'~of;a t:l~J.~,gs to tile, ol.h,'er. J' kl,o~ some c:ommu~Sl, ie:~ tl~at do not assess a nickel
f,)r tFuilk t~p~oi. '[t~ey'r~.t not 9ettin9 a frae lunch. They're payil~9 for ~t out
of hi91~ connection cl~arg~s o~ I'~igheJ' user t-alack. So it's really I,a~'d to
t:o,,i,,~r'a. You cdi~ do jr. b~t't it take~; really, you jit::¢t can't cai] up a city and
z;;~y wl~at [:'; yo~lF typical ra~.a fo~' a trLt~,k ci,a~'gc bacaase depe~ding on who you
a:-~k a]~d t~hat kind of a,,aly~.ts i~7 u::;ed, you won't 9et an set,irate ansaer.
aayol' f;l~mie]' R[gh't. ';' ,~gr.'_-'.a A~,d th,.~.t'a :~o tr'ue brecausc 3' k~ow of ;.t couple
(;i'l. ic..::~ 'ihc,~:-:;elv::z !.t~at 90 t. hr-ou91~ Ithat same 'tf, i~9 and do not charge for running.
Roge.'c Kl~l.ttso~: I sat el, the H~.;l:ropol.[~.an £ouncil ttousin9 Con, mittet~, as we just
[.;.~ished, ancl they t~nrc t'r'yin9 i.o compare different rates i.n ciiffere~,t cities
a~ld I~ow tl,i~yo wore dOl',C ,il]d ti]ex, Imavim~g little staff and they didn't waist to
put that much effo~'t into Jr, they basically thre~ up their hands and said ~e
c:,]~'~: c:omp,'lrc i{. You h,ive t~ go :sit dowll wil. h ever'y city with their flnal~ce
~,fFt,:~,-. M&'th :h~,ir engineer and aec ho~ their tit>' i:; financed. You can't get
{:oun,:i1,',a~ Workman: I don't want to Lhillk that wa're making up OUl' own as we
90. ~ [fle;tll W[~'Vr~ go'i: LO bo go~119 bx somethin9 that's si,,ilar to :;omebody. It'd
b~: k.5.~d t,f rs]ce Lo kr',(',~ 1[ t~e aye o~ We aren't. Maybe that's a very complicated
~:l[aS;.io:l but ]f a m.:tjo~ developer tc]..l.: LIs we're 2 1/2 to 3 tim~.~o, maybe he can
h:::lp LiS find o~L %,~l,>'. Tlmey're d:~ve].opJ, ng in clif[ere~mt comnmunitiea and the~ know
u~l~y o~' how they do i~ fn cJJ. Ffer~ com,mu~itie~, a,.~t th~n that ~,robab].y affect~
thc p~.~op]e who i~ava [~le~' .10 acres as well or the 1 unit people too. Al]d ~o
~l~,.tf.':s wha[, I mean I :.tgr~e witlm you~' t[~au~y II,at there'~ no f~'ee lunch.
Semi, body's 9oi~,9 Lo pay for it someho[.J but I'c] kind of like to get a better
Imarmdle o~ that bec,ii,se as thpse thirmg~ conme up, they're highly stressful and
fxank].y I'd lika to: have a better answer.
~oger Kn~ttson: O~e sJmpJ.e ].i'ttl,'-'. factor .ts der~.'.-.:ity. If yc)u allow more use,
m,.lke it not commercJ.~tl bmtL ,~:.siclen~ial. l'f you allow eve'r'yo~,e erin an 8,000
Co~:truction c:o:t:l~ per unit ~ould be dramatic:aJly different than if you required
ZO,O00 squaf-p f~,()t
i'i,~yo'r L'hmiel.: Al]yt~l.i,'19 e].:-~e? Richa;'d.
f:¢:L,;',cilma;l t~i~lg: i.4o, tibet was my questiol,. I'm some~l'mat sat[:.i'~r~,'I If, at we'r'e
not La]king apples dncl oral]ges hero. It's sort of, you're comfortable we're not
9 I./2-3 tim~¢$ rno~'~: t l~am~ a compa['able city?
cl',arles Fo].cl~; bJha~ I'm comfortable with is our estimated cor'~ts for what the
r,r:~d.'.s ,'t~'e io pr,,v.;.d.s .'.~et',~i.c:,:; to the ar(-;d Mild tile ;'ea~OllabJ. e. IlUmbel' of ul~its that
12
CJ. ty Cnunc:f_l Meat_j.r~9 - AprJ_] 13, 1~92
would be generated. I feel we're dealing with real numbers here and fair
estimates as to wh~l costs should be to have servlce in Chanhassen.
Councilman Wing: One question that I'm asked, we're assessing these people now
for running these lines down and Mr. Michel's comment is if-he chose to hook up
we have to do, I thlnk you used the word run a lateral.
Charles Folch: That's correct.
Councilman Wing: Where does that assessment go? Who pays for that now?
Char].es Folch: Again that uouZd be assessed to the benefitting properties.
Councilman Wing: So they're really not being set up to be hooked up? They're
being set up to be set up to be hooked up? It's another assessment for these
folks ls what it sounds 11ks.
Charles Folcl~: That's correct.
Mayor Chmlel: One additional.
Councilman Wing: I don't think that happened to me. What might that be or what
might happen?
Char].es Folch: Well, we'd have to take a look at it again as to what. It would
depend on how many of [hose properties, which properties ad3acent to him, if any
of the others would want to also hook up at that polnt in tlme. We'd have to
look for what would be the best, most efficient alignment to get service to
those properties. Dollars wlse, at thls polnt in tlme I couldn't glve you a
rough guess but ue would try to stay consistent with what our connection charges
are or our lateral connection charges.
Councilman Wing: If that's part of the integral system of hooking up in the
future and we're not hooking up now, why not do it all at one project now? One
construction project now at today's prices and assess one assessment? In other
words, it's sort of available but it's sort of not. Unt11 we assess a second
time to make it sort of, this doesn't make sense.
Charles Folch: The lntent with a trunk assessment ls not lntended that you have
service to your property line. Zt's basically the major arterial facility if
you will for sewer and water in the area. That's what they're belng assessed
for. It is a good point. You could certainly take the viewpoint that we should
put both lateral and trunk in at the same tlme. However, Z thlnk we'd probably
run into a greater wall for people who aren't interested in getting service at
thls point itl time. Then you're adding probably another $2,000.00 onto their
assessment at this time.
A1K11ngelhutz: Could I ask a question?
Mayor Chmiel: Sure
Al Klingelhutz: Prior to this time, the trunks were paid by a sewer
availability charge at the tlme of a building permit or otherwise. Now wlth
13
' " .1- ~'~ '-~ r~ -~
:.!:;' ~,~.I 'i .-'.;-':',~: ,'..i ~h:.: :-,i .... :,~'i. !.L:~,, .",r ,,..,,., Or) and $L,20¢) O0 and some dolJ.,-.~F~:
,.¢[1! i.l,:~i'r:, :;t.t!.l bc ,;t :'¢¢".t,ar-:i av,..'..il,'tbii.~t.y CII;iI(.IC b. Jl!;;:il they c:omc'., ill [0 (.~P.t a%
b:lJ ]::lill(J F,r:¥'r~ !?
Ch:,i'.[e:': l'ol. ch: '-'_.'? L!,,-' ~b(livJ.:sion d±cl not cons'ti'tLcL 'Lhe ir, teFal latnra!
i",,cil.[ti.~::'.: Lhom:::::J. ve::-.~, ,,~,,! ti-,,..: I,'r':;pe;'1:y has l)'~'ev'i, ous ].ai.e'raL impl'oveme, nt ~h.[cl~
!.i~,,..:.. ui~.>, _~n~,-~!l.r;:~l al,d h.4'-.' l~.:vied an a.s.qes:.~lnen't agai. ll:--.t tile properties.'., then
l!l,"r':::' t~.lOIt.l.r_, ~,,'; ,';. (;()lllle;,:;'i:~_Oli c.:h;,'.'l-9O ¥(),' ti-,,': unpaid .1.,'.~teral benefit to the
p r',',~ ,fei'
,"il. ;(i.i.~lge].l~ut.." L,;.'.'::_-'; I. heir lateral
[;~,..r'Jr:';.; !".:,!c:i~' ,~':~.~, thF::r'.'.-~ would bc ,:.t ]Laf. ur','.t] as:~¢¢.'.csmel~t. I_;tte'ral connoction
C!~..~, 9," .-'tbor.::-';:3i, e.F~t t)~tt n~)i a trunk hook up charge J.f the trunk hook up cha'Fge J.s
~'. r' ,".';.i. c~uc ! >' r;,..'..[ d.
i'!,'~>'o',' '.:;hmie] · "¢OLt',l :'-.;t.j.]l have you~' 'i;¢16 (.:llarge; ~l,icl'~ you wei'e 90~n9 Lo :2;ay I
I l,.f nl.'._ %~:w,'.r ,~,,'L ;.lab.i.l.il ,/ c:ha'r ~je Ll~at. ' s j. mpo:?r..,d upon LtS by t lie H:¢t ropo]LJ, tan
('.OltllC:]. ]
Al Kl.il~gelhttl x: 'Fi~e. ,..~l~e Lh,-'tt Mei:ro Council.. t)(.:(:,.tml.'-~c Ne have one: in the city
¢(:.u. f,)l-:si.tie
."5;';(: .-.harger-'.¢ :.;~.'t,~pi' ,~v~,i.l.:~bJl'[[y ct,ar'ge- ;;1] ttIC 3.P..¥-VJOF.;S i.l~a','. ~,d~.:f'3 l)t-tt ill the
i~¢.,',.th :¢~:i'V.[CF: ,.ii" :_'.,.i 'in 1.1',:-: ~,l.,:l F,'.~'rt ~f i. owl~ !~8i-e, that's how '[lie [r~tnk ].ilie,$ wt.:Fo
l',i~,.', Fo'F. Now I. hey:'r;.~ goJ. ll~.~ i.o be as:.;o$:.~e¢l ct!Iai'mi:st "~he prc, pe'F(y p'Fio'F (o the
L.i.,,;.: ,.:,l'~y ]_,~t.'.;r,~.):~ ,.ti':-;. ,,>u[ iii.
Hayo',' Cnm-,.c;.1.' Ok,:tv Any other '; ~'? "~'
' ' . . (,,.~.~;tt:-;:',.~ol ,-,.al'irl9 J',one I'll cai), for a
IllO [. J.(.,ll ~
r.:,.,.~t~,uil,,~.~; L,Jor'.'<,ll.'Irl- l' 1. l move. app'~'oua.1 of ?ea:~i[).tli t>' .~l Ltdy 'roi '[rLtnk utility
.i, ilil,i'OV~mrcllt:~ i.,.)tJl)pC.i Bli Ff Cr'e.e~k arua, authorize pi'opaFation of f~J. al'iS al~d
31)r~c:~ficatJ. ons [,)i-Pi'o jeer No. 9J.-17.
.
and 3r:r:on~Jed ,~11]>' oLhc,'r d:~sCLtSSioll?
Resolutiomm ~92-47t Councilman Workman moved, Counci].lnan Hason seconded approval
of the Feasib1]1[y S[ud7 for Trunk Utility Improvements to the Upper Creek Area
and to authorize preparation of plans and specifications for Project No. 91-17.
Al]. voted ~n favor and the motion carried.
PUBt.IC tlEARING' VACATION OF RIGHT.-OF-NAY L_...OCATEB IN OUTLOT B. TRAPPERS PASS AT
NEAR ltOUNTAIN 3RD ADDITION, AS PAR!.OF. THE PLATTING PROCESS FOR SUHHIT AT NEAR
HOUNTA~N, LUNDGREN RROS. CONoTRUCTION._
Public Present-
]4
City Council Meeting -- April 13, 1992
Public Present:
Name Address
Kevin Pieper
Bruce Nord
541 Indian Hill Road
551 Indian Hill Road
Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. This item is more of a house
keeping formality if you will. The new plat for the Summit Addition is
designating the appropriate right'of-way needed for the plat. There is an
underlying 15 foot right-of-way which was acquired previously which needs to be
released in order to clean up the area for the new plat. Therefore staff is
recommending the vacation.
Mayor Chmiel: Before I see if there's anyone wishing to provide any testimony
on this. We no way the city is going to need this GOO feet by lS feet wide for
any reason at all?
Charles Folch: No. Actually we're acquiring additional right-of-way to city
standards. Now it's 60 feet for the new road access.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. As I mentioned before, this is a public hearing. Anyone
wishing to come up at this time to provide any testimony to this,.this is your
opportunity to do so now.
Kevin Pieper: My name is Kevin Pieper. I live on 541 Indian Hill Road. I
guess this ls first we've heard of it slnce maybe a couple of years ago and
I guess if someone could explaln exactly what kind of easement or right-of-way
is there now and which portlon you're vacating, if all or just where you're at?
Charles Folch: Well the existing easement which is 15 feet wide by GOO feet
long basically covers that entire stretch as shown on, there's an attached
dlagram.
Mayor Chmiel: Why don't you just take a look at that diagram that he has there.
Charles Folch: It basically follows, this is that Indian Hill Road coming
through here and as a part of the, actually Indian Hill actually comes up to
here. This is on the Lundgren property here. Basically with the new internal
road system whlch wlll probably be 11ke thls, you'll have a connection coming
like this so what we're vacating is all within Lundgren plat. That will be a GO
foot right-of-way which is a current clty standards in order to provide a 31
foot residential street.
Kevin Pieper: Is that the intention to make it a full city, residential street?
Charles Folch: I believe that's correct.
Kevin Pieper: It was our understanding last time we were here in discussions of
this that Council came to the decislon that it was only going to be for
emergency access only. And that's our concern. I'm two parcels away. One of
the neighbors who's wlth me here tonight lives right there and we're concerned
for a couple different factors. One of whlch ls safety aspect. Anybody that's
15
i',~l~']J].[a'r' wi'il, ]',Jd~Ln Hill Road knows that j.i.'s o ve'r"y :~teep grade. We have, you
det,endJn~o ol~ [;l~nwfaJ.]., w~ h,.zvr-: ,.t J. ot of trottb.te everl getting home. We don't
[eo~ ~'L'E: l)r'Opet' [o i)~aOn aliyl,Of'8 traffic on that street. The second factor
Hnu].d be th~zt ii,ere are sover~], yo~.tn9 ch~Zdf-en ~ the ~l'e~. The ~ots are ~ery
~.:teep. There's not ;.t tot of p~a(;e for t. hem to p~ay arid we're al. so concerned of
,'~l]y C~i'R ~e;tUZIl(~ tile proposr]fl development af-ea theFe ai~d coning do~l~ that road
at a hJ91~ r'ai:e of :)peed. Haybe the third poS. hr ~o~t].d be because of the angle
~:~mJ. n9 out¢ ll.(gl'~t L~me ~l'~J once ag,.t.~] coupled ~ith the grade d.(fferences there,
Ll-~e angle et anyone ].~:av~ng tl~at area, I. heJ. r headlights Hound definitely shine
· righL on our hr, uses ~hJ. cll we fee]. wou].d bo a deFZml.i, te dJ. strac(ion. And Z guess
that's, m[.~ybe [ha't.'s not tl~e poin'L being discussed now. Z do~'t th~nk ~e, or at
J.east Z perGon~Zy do~]'~ l~ave anything to say ageJ. f~st vacating the street but Z
g~.te:~s tde would clef;,~j, te~y }Zke [o have soBe &nput on the he~ st~'eet and what
f.L:s IBr'oposed Lo be u~ed for.
[thai-les Fetch:' ii-is inl. ended, at. J. eas'l, f~'om a'n J. nit:id] standpoint, that the
t'oad wou.l.~i serve ,ts an ~.~mei'gency ~tccess oo ?.here wf..[]. [)~ bart'icades up at the
property ].the w.~.[h the I.undgren pt'ope.'¢ty..
',(cvil~ Pi~¢p,'-.,.~': So woktJ, d it l~0 locked then or how wou].d you access or how would
you use J~?
gl,aries Folch; Basically we woul(l [,ave some sort of, probably a chain type
::y~;l:em, .5ometl~ing J, tke [i~f. or some sol-t: of tempo'¢ary o~' break through [ype
l,,.}f-f-ief' ~ysi. em which al .Zeas* emergency and fi're protection vehicles could break
tl~rougl~ .[l~ i:he event that th~.y needed secondary :access ii,to that subd~.vision,
Kevi~, Pieper: t~[:lJ, i.'L soul,ds like it'd be acueptab].e Lo us. Our big concern's
.ii. do~;.';I,'~ ~.lev.'.~].~p i~,[o a 'roadway tl,at's used ~J. 1 the t.tme. Thank yol~.
Mayor' Ehmie.1.; Zs t l~ei'e anyone else?
P.,rt.tnr: Nord: Ye,':,h. I~,y ,~a,lC; j.s f~z-uoe Nord. I lJ. ve oil 551 Indian Hi].l Road.
,-~gain Kev.i.n::;; ileXt door neighbor and Z guess I'd want to look at this too.
Haven'[ t l~ese peep.re received public not.ice?
lJ'Fu¢-.e Nord: ','.'-.:,'th, tl'~.~..-; Js our 'first notice we've had was ].a.~:,t week and as of 2
ye,it'S ago ~4(.'. W,e'~'~.~ in talking ~bout this b~.fore and ue ,ti]. said we wanted an
emergency access only. The City :-equJ. red tl~at...but yeah, this is the first
we've heard of ~t and now we hear it's a final de,~l so. How wide is this
$~tpposed to b¢~.?
£harJ. es f'olch: Tl~e exisling is 15 feet wide by 600 [eet long that's going to be
vacated.
Bruce Nord: okay, and where'3 the new road going to be?
CllaYl,es Fetch: hctL~aL.l.y the ,'.~ccess, or the emei'gency access will take off the
exisi, in9 alJ. gnme. nl. he're anti connect to a new loop system Lhat's being
(.:ol~t'~t.r~cte. d J.l~ t. Lt~'l~
Nord: Okay, and how wide wou].d it be'?
16
City Council Meet in9 - April 13, 1992
Charles Folch: I believe at this time it would be probably 30 feet wide. There
wlll be a 20 foot road surface on it and it'd be 30 feet wide.
Bruce Nord: Okay. Well that's wlder than Indlan Hill Road ls rlght now and if
it's golng to be used for strictly emergency access, I don't feel you need a
road that's wider than the road that is currently there.
Charles Folch: That's governed by city ordinance basically. Has to have a
mlnimum of 20 foot wide paved surface.
Bruce Nord: Is it going to be paved or crushed rock?
Charles Folch: I believe what the last Council, with the approval it's going to
be a rock surface. Class V rock surface.
Mayor Chmiel: Right, I think that's correct.
Bruce Nord: Yeah, I guess that's our biggest concern. Like Kevin said, we
don't have a lot of traffic down that hill because people could really get going
down that hi11.
Mayor Chmiel: Yes, it's quite steep.
Bruce Nord: And with 50 houses there, they're planning on building up there,
that's potentially 100 cars that could be using that h111.
Mayor Chmiel: Or better.
Bruce Nord: Yeah. Okay, yeah. As long as it's just emergency access that's
barricaded, I guess we don't have a lot of problems wlth that. But in the
future lt'd be nlce to know about it more than 7 days before it's.
Councilman Workman: How'd you find out?
Bruce Nord: We got something in the mail a week ago.
Mayo~' Chmiel: You normally have to send that 10 days prior to the hearing.
Bruce Nord: It's just thls was the flrst we've heard about it slnce 2 years so
okay. Thank you.
Mayor Chmlel: Alright, ls there anyone else? This lsa publlc hearlng. If
seelng none.-
Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Mason seconded to close the public hearing.
All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed.
Mayor Chmiel: Discussion. I think it's quite there fully in detail.
Councilman Workman: It will be a temporary or an emergency access?
Charles Folch: It wlll be emergency access.
17
CotLl'lci].m,'tn Wuf km~)~' il. wL:LL i~e LIbeL ~.~ay iT)to perpetuity'?
H,:~yo'c Chmie.I. ' ,4m~-:n.
¢.o~l~ci].man Workman: We've got other barricades in LI~; city. T. uould ask the
),.;:;J.~lr~[s I:o he very ].ee. i y oF barricades because they are, perpetu±ty is not
p~:;pe'tuity. ¥1~y a~e .-.;omcthlng i. hat kind of b].ou vi. th the uind somet, imes so you
mJgi'~t uan~ I.o, T ~lo~'t mean to mL~ck rake o'r' anythj, ng, but those thii~gs are, you
m.Lgi~t ~ant l:o .tr, v~;~i.:;.uate other areas of the c~ty uhere ue have barricades.
H~.~yo~ Chi, icj.: Ok,'~y, c~n .[ h,:.tv~' a motion?
(:¢)Ltl]~;'~LfALtl) ii,.~sof~; 1: (~ou.td move appfovaI of vacation 'request 92--~ to vacate the
~zppFox~mate].y 600 feet by 1.5 foot port,on of ]:roqtto~s located vi. thin Ou~Zot B of
T'r-al~prz'F'.'3 [~d.t;.':; ~R Near i'lOLtll'[~J_ll. 3f'd Add~tJon a.s descrZbed by the J. egal
de:'cc'r~i~t.;.u~ ,'~t lached ~o t l~is 'Fepori..
C:oui~uilma]~ Wor'klndn' Second.
Resolution ~92-48: Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Workman seconded to
approve Vacation Request ~92-1 to vacate the approximately 600 feet by 15 feet
portion of Iroquois located eithin Outlot B of Trappers Pass at Near Mountain
3rd Add£t[on as described by the lega[ descr£pt[on attached to the staff report.
All voted £n favor and the motion carried.
~UBLIC HEARING: VACATION OF UTILITY EASEHENT LOCATED AT 7600 ERIE AVENUE,..
ROBERT AMORUSO.
Public P)'esehl.:
Name Address
7602 Ei'.i_~-~ Avenue
Cha.rles Fei. ch: Hr. ttayor, member.'.~ of the Council. It's come to staff's
,'}tt,'..*.ntJ. on that. the utt].J, ty e;tsement uhJch vas acqt.tJ. Feda fee years ago over the
G~f~()f'u$o pro[)e.'f'i:y ~as evidentally acqui)'ed in error. The City upon 'revieu of
rr~.c:or'ds, we fli~d thaL Lhere's no ~(;tlt~]. c~ty uf..~lity ~J. thin the described
3asement. The existing easement that vas acquired encompasses the entire
i~o'r'th(;rJ.y 25 feel of the p'Fopef'f.y. BeJ. ng th,:~i there's no m~tJ. lj. ty uithin the
e,~sement, J.t .is r'~commended Li~at ~lJ. buL the nof'therly 5 feel of this easement
bo vacaled., The norl. her].y S feet Uolll,J se'trice a side l~t ]_J. ne easemef]t as
consistent t~J. th rpsJ. dv)~tia], lots ~n the city.
itayo)' Chmiel" Okay, very good. As Ime. nf. ioned before, this is a public
I~earlng. Anyone wlshtng 'i.o address Lfli8 a( this time. Please state your name
Wayne Hagnlan'- iffy name is Wayne I~agman. I live at ?602 Erie Avenue. I'm not
here l~) cor, tes~ tl~i=s eaSelne~t .Ltl ,'~ny way. tsut my property abuts the pt'Opel'If.y
~t~(iei' quest i. on here o¥1 l:~o ..:;~de.$ al~d .T. ileard about thls easelne~t approximately 3
~eek:: ,.~go. ~ (;,~r,r'. t.o c;:;.i.y I~,~.1..]. mild they f.o].d me the easelnenL a~so Fan througl)
18
City Council Meeting - April 13, 1992
my property and that's not mentioned here. I'd like to know what's being done
with that.
Charles Folch: Which property is yours? Are you immediately uest or north of
tile property?
Wayne Hagman: Z'm south and west.
Charles Folch: South and west. Zf you're south and west. If you're south of
this property.
Wayne Hagman= That would not bear on it. The west part would though because it
hooks around to the north and then it runs through the easement there where you
put the sewer 11ne ln. The city sewer 11ne. My property runs all the way down.
Charles Folch: In contacting Carver County, in fact why don't you come here and
take a look at thls document here. I belleve, if you're describing correctly,
this is your property here?
Wayne Hagman: Yeah. They've got the wrong name on it.
Charles Folch: Well this is pointing to this Amoruso property.
Wayne Flagman: Okay, that was my second question. Then that's the name of lt.
Charles Folch: Yes, we confirmed with Carver County that the easement as
described for along the northerly portion of the Amoruso property does not
extend further to the west along the northerly portion of Mr. Hagman's property.
Wayne Hagman: Zt does not?
Charles Folch: Calling the County, there's no recorded easement against your
property.
Wayne Hagman: Okay, I was told I did when I came to City Hall. They told me
I did.
Charles Folch: According to Carver County records, lt's not listed.
Wayne Hagman: Because if I did, I wanted to vacate it also.
Charles Folch: Certainly. That's what we lntended to look at. That's why we
contacted Carver County because we thought we'd clear them all up at the same
time.
Wayne Hagman: Plus the easement thlng is how do I get my name on the piece of
property? We've been paying taxes 26 years to the Clty and my name isn't on
there. Everybody else's name is on there.
Charles Folch: We can certainly call the County and have them adjust the half
sections and put your name on there.
Mayor Chmiel: See to that, that's done Charles? Thank you. Anyone else?
19
~:ol~nc_~.]man Workman moved, Cuunci:lman Hason sccm~ded to close the pub~Lic hearing.
voted in fawr and ~he mo~ion carried~ The public i~earing ~as closed.
C.o~tnc_~.j.m,.~ Woe'kmart: '[ would move
(:oLtncilmon Wi~9' T'd .i~t.'~l. ].1ko to m,~ke a I'equest ti18t Councj. iman hla:-~on I~andle
i
~.]l~L; onF.~- [):'_',t-Jail:sr.~. '[ iiE:.",-.'::'S !lO pi'.[r'mt, ed 'roc:omn,e~ld~k2or,. c, XC:tlSe me bit. Idayor.
(;oLtllcJ. lm,.~ h,'.~:.~o~ /.'].] move~- ,,l~f:,i'ov,.-:l. of vacaL.~.on of uLi.1..f, ty ease. merit at 7600
f-:r :;.~. ~v~_,.nl~¢_.. ?.tai~;~ n.~ F i.] r: No. 92.-2.
14eso~u[ion .~92--4~ Councilman Hasoi~ moved, Councilman ~J_ng seconded to approve
~acat~on Request ~92-2 for vacat&o~ of an ut~tity easement at ?600 Erie Avenue.
voted ~n favor and the. motJon carried.
AWARD OF BIDS."__. HINNEWASHTA PhP, KW__A.y. UPGRADE IHPROVEHENT PROJECT NO. 90-15.
[:'n,~,'!.eb Fei. ch: 01, T~t,';~;day, ;tarci', 31st, bids were 're~¢eived and opened for the
i'i[~l~,;w,'.t:-;i~t.,. P,..,.-r kwh>, :;mp'~ov,?.me~t Project No. 90.-.1...5. Nine bi. ds were received in
al.1. ancl thc- b.i(l:.~ w,?re very, very favo'm"ab]e as i.i~c: act~tal spr~:ad I)etween the high
and .1.ow bi.d w~':i'~'. ~..~n]>' t.ik_ Thc: pf'ojec;t I~ad ,an 61].l. ei'llaf, e opt.Lon bid as a pa~'t of
LtlO J)['O.¢eC'~.. 1l'~¢ a.t[e'~,at.o basical].y was rof poLel~tially u~in9 an 8,
J. mpleme, rl~.~.r,g ,'~n G foot i'.r,'~iJLway r~yot~.;m ve'r'slt.'-; the 6 foot trail on the pT'eject.
~f[,'_:i- 'fui'thcr coJ,si, de'r'a'Lion o~ iii.t:-'.; m~tte'r and evaluat~.ng SOllte of the ~lllpac[s
tll,z.;, t JiJ.o wJ.(lr-.'.r i:,'sj_j, weLt.rtl h,.tV(': f.O the p'r'oj~.:c(.~ .[nell.id.trig ~:ubstan~J. al ;~llcf'ease
.[.n t,'."~~ Lo.'.:~,, ~ome dii'fJ, clt£ttc..s in match'Ln9 si. opes on adjacent propert:ies which
WoLtl(] f'e(It.tJ.f'~.; ::;OMO IllOf'e r'otaJ, ll~_ll9 ~a]~ Wofk ~.trld o~.tch, we fei( thai. staff's
i"~;r;oml, er~claL'~or~ i.t'; ir, go b~ck to the o'r'.'i§';ll,~J p~'oject e~ements as were approved
and I.l',,'.~t I~::.¢1~9 £:Ol-I[~i;ft.tof_.~.Ol~ of L~ 4 ¢00[ trailway sysi:~;m. Given that being the
Kc~';omm~;nrJ,'.tl..~)'~l~ 'ii~¢: 1. ow [()t~J I)~so b~d J. mp~Lemef~t;~ng tl~e 6 foot lra~l fei' th£s
pi'ojscL w,.~s suhm;'i:~ud icy Impe~'~aJ Ue~elop¢-;rs at $1,338...5:~4.40. This Zs
Oppl'c.X~II~alc]y .19~ ]l.~:'.;'-:s; l.h,'~ the 8nginec. r:~; esi';~.~l~at,~ ~;o the bid was very, very
favor',.tbl,'.:. ]:mperJ. a! Dov~-;].~pol'?~ have p(;i'fo-~l, ed sati~.;f,icl, or'j. iy on previous
::r~jccl. s ~tl',.~.n th(:,, city ~';~tc:h as A,t.tdttbOrl Road recer,'~ly. Therefore it ls
'r'm¢.rCmlfl~¢l~ci4...(] tll;.~i: Lbo Hinnewash'ta Parkway street and stol'hi drainage improvement
Project No.. 90.-J.S ba~e bid imp.'ic.l,r..:rlttn9 '(ho 6 foot trailway system be awarded to
'l.l~lpf;'r'.[,-~J O~;volop~:Fs [11 i:l'~r~ c<mol.~nts of $1,338,534_4o contlngent upon a(;qLtJ, r~rmg a
:;igm'~ed uO:~l>er~ti. Lue ,'tgreemm~em~t for the project w~th the C~'Ly of Victoria.
Hayer ¢;hmie].. Ok,.~>., thank yOU Cha'~ l¢;s. I would l.[ke to table this particular
propo[sal at this m'>a'r(icu]ar time for' lwo reasons. Orme, as I've had a request to
].~ok al. some o[ thes¢~ ll~i~gs tllat we've ~t.tst golle tl~rough. ~nd second~y, I
w~:,utd lJ.k~: (.:ott~lC~.~ 'i.c uo OLt[ ,~1](I ~oOk ~'[ ~ '[00'~ sideualks and 8 foot sideuaiks
,].ll({ sics whorl] y()l[i- [oo.lJ_llgO ,tf~ om'm ~l'mose roi' i:l,.is specj, f~.c loc4tt.ion. Once we get
~]one~ t~m"1,1~¢ thit: back i.n Y; ~eks and move ii: fof-wdf-d then.
iiayo'r' Chr, iol- You h~'[.
2O
City Council Meeting -- April 13, 1992
Councilman Wing: Now coming in i9~ below our estimate, I'm assuming that that's
good. I'm ~ssuming that that is in the benefit of the assessee's. That their
assessment would tend to be lower at this point.
Charles Folch: Generally we still haven't gone through the project yet, given
the size of the project, unforeseen thlngs could you know.
Councilman Wing: Here, let me get to the point then. Hinnewashta Parkway,
whether lt's scrub or whether lt's quallty hardwoods, it lsa relatively heavlly
wooded green area wlth a lot of vegetation. And having gone through it with a
lot of the neighbors, I mlght say Blll has overcome some severe anomoslty out
there and I'm really surprised at the success he's had. I think it speaks
hlghly for Blll at havlng overcome some of the problems. Unfortunately, I
haven't but the concerns all center around the loss of our parkway. The loss of
our greenway. The loss of what we had. Even though, as I look at lt, there's a
lot of scrub. If you sit down with the overlays or if you were to go down the
road with Bl11, whlch I would urge all of you to do, foot by foot, you're going
to find out that we're clearing a lot and it's going to be a war zone and lt's
golng to be an open area when we're done. I think we were lax, not
intentionally but just not really being able to look at it in a realistic
plcture of what we're loslng in terms of vegetation and trees. I don't think
we're putting, 8111 has been very generous with them but I don't think we're
putting enough ln. I don't think we're puttlng enough back. I don't think we
have enough of a landscape budget. And considering the amenities for the area,
I think that if thls ls coming in low, perhaps we can afford to up the landscape
budget a little bit to the point of going to the neighborhood and saying, do you
want to foot the b111 to put thls thlng back for the future a little faster?
Your point of i for I on trees and we're losing some massive, massive greenway
out there. And we're not puttlng back what we're taking and I think the money
is there to do it. Especially if it's coming under like this so I think it's, I
would just ask the Council to conslder that. I don't even have any necessarily
any ideas on what to do other than are we putting back what we're taking? Is
the money there to put it back and couldn't we lmprove this environmentally
better than we are?
Hayor Chmlel: I guess I wouldn't want to go back and have this discussion with
the r-esidents again and ask them if they'd like to provlde some more dollars.
Councilman Wing: Well not more. They're klnd of set on $800.00-$g00.00 but if
we're golng to be down to $~00.00-$700.00, whatever the assessment winds up to
be. Whatever it wlnds up, it's just irrelevant numbers rlght now.
Mayor Chmiel: Right. I think I stuck my neck out quite a bit on this one as
well as Counc11 dld as well in trylng to get everyone satisfied. We can't
satisfy everyone as we all know. We try to do our best and that's what we do
but at this particular one, I don't know if I'd go back and dlscus thls wlth
those people.
Councilman Wing: And I don't suggest that Don. My point was, I believe they
would support it. I believe they would say yes, we do want this landscaped.
Yes we do want thls parkway. Yes we do want to spend the money on it. That's
my opinion and Z'm not suggesting we go back. But I would ask Bill to look at
21
CLty /':~url,;;i.J H~:::kJ.~l~j -~ hl~i'J..1 i3, 1992
t.h].¢; S;eFJ. OLI:S[y and J.f u¢','n hurling, .[[ we:re ]ackJ119~ I think landscaping
;tayoi' g.h,~J_el.-'. Okay_ To,'~.
Coui~;tlman 14c~Ykman: I'll leave that task to you.. Being that it's, we're going
l'r;l~mr.'. 1.11.'-'. road Uich,'~f'd H~ng ~oaduay. BLt[ that ]: ca~'t phal~tom that concept.
guess Z want to locus so,~e of my comments on, ue have something of a ra're
h.Ldding :F;(3[;ll,'tf ~r.).[11 tllat the b,~se bid we~,t to one deveJ.opef' with the alternate
b~d ~t 9oes to anoti~er. ~e're '[aJkLn9 about an appYoxJmatoly $1.4
do]t,~f' project. Th~-;re's ;-t lot of dollars at slake. So ue'J.Z have ~o focus
i~eavi].y on uhc[l~nr it':-; ,-t G or an 8 Foot and why ue have Jt there and certainly
1.~nducapJ. n9 and ~l]~'i. an S i'ooL (Joes and ul~,zt a 6 foot does. ]:'~ g~ad we're
t,tbJZng 2t. Z tl~nk Ur~uJ~t si~ou]d be heYe [o help us do thZs. But ~ don't
i. hZnk .i.~ th~ ye~l'u Z'vc bee~, o~, tl~e Eouno&]. we've had a sJ. tuatZon qu~te L~ke
t.h.[~;. ~l~ere one b~(t uen[ to the other ,-~nd 'the other b~d vent to another.
t.l,.[l~k J.( c:~'eat~¢:~ even ,~oYe dra~,a. Z ]_~ke tl~e fact that ~t ~s ~9~ or so under
rind Z'd be happy to go to the people and teZZ them that. Then probab}y open
,~n,)Lher' P,.tiid.:¢i',.~'~; ~ox on ~l~ei.i~ei' oY ~o~ 1.~dsc&p~ng. Rut Z tllJnk ~e h~ve a very
bi9 task ujth trying to decide 6 or 8 because ue'Y8 tZteraJ.~y pLck~ng between
(~ne developer of conLr'actnv.
liayor (:hmtel: ): 9~ess that.'s b~tsically the reaso~in9 that I had 'for this and in
~,,-~k~n~] ti~ ,,~t.i~l fo'~ ta!~li~9. Iticl~e]., do you have anything?
Councilman Mason: I wasn't awa'r'e of .'~o,,e of tl~e comp].ications in this bidding
Ltnti]. jUSt this r~.vening. Yeah, I think tabling is a 9cod .idea.
i'i;.tyc, r Chmie].' ~. have a inotJ, o~ on the floor. Is there a second?
[:ounoil,lan H.[.llg: Second.
Hayor Chmiel moved, Councilman ~ing seconded to table the award of bids for the
Zinneuashta Parkway Upgrade improvement Project No. 90-3.5 until the next City
Council meeting, hll voted in favor and the motion carried.
AWARD OF BIDS: STREET SWEEPER.
M~tyor Chmiel: T..'~ Harold here to~,igl~t charles or are yot! going to?
ch,~r.l.::s Folch: No. You will f'ec,'~].], f~'om the previous meeting that we
requested that authorization to rebid the street swenper piece of equipment due
io ,} couple of faclor's ~hat Harol~l mentiol'led f. ha~ night. One being that the way
ihs ua'rranty ~as stipulated also. TI~a'i: ~e m~ght, be abZe to save so~e additional
dolJ_a~s in modil:y.[ng thai. hnd as a result, basic~lly vi. th I, odifying the
warranty schedule [rom ~ 2 y~,aY to a 1 year ~orking t~.me ~arranty application
uhJ.cl'~ basical. J.y mea]ls ll',ab ue ~oLtJ. d, (he uai-rarlty would apply only during the
seaso[, in ul',ich ue are using the equipment so that we're technically in effect
g~tt(ng a 2 ye,il' wr.tl r'allty, ~e basically I~ave saved $6,000.00 over the previous
bid YeceJued. ~s a resu.lt., uJtl~ the new specification to the bidding, Schuster
F,luip,~enL Incol'povaLion ]s again the lo~ bidder. Tl~is tJ.~e at .$77,388.00 which
au~:[l~ is $6~000.00 ]ess f.l~an tile bid ue received a few weeks ago.
22
City Council. Meeting -- April 13, 1992
Mayor Chmiel: Good. Thank you. Any discussion? Can I have a motion?
Councilman Wing; Hotion to buy it. Is that what you'd like?
Mayor Chmiel: The award of bid for the street sweeper be provided to Schuster
Equipment.
Councilman Wing: So moved.
Councilman Mason: Second.
Resolution ~92-50: Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Hason seconded to award
the bid for the street sweeper to Schuster Equipment, Inc. in the amount of
$77,388.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Wing: Did I miss the time line on this?
Mayor Chmiel: No.
Councilman Wing: When will we be coming on line with this? It's not going to
help us with this spring.
Charles Folch: No, it won't help us with this spring. We expect to receive it
some time early to mid-summer.
Mayor Chmiel: I think that too will help the streets and the problems that we
have with our study we've got going right now. Okay, we'll move right on to new
business.
AUTHORIZE PREPARATION OF FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR STREET AND UTILITY IHP~OVEHENTS
TO THE NWl/4 OF SECTION 10 AND NE1/4 OF SECTION 9 (LUNDGREN BROS.) - PROJECT NO.
92-5.
Charles Folch: As my staff report indicates, Lundgren Bros. has contacted the
City to inform us that they have secured purchase options for a large
encompassing portions of 3 parcels known as Johnson, Turner and the northern
portion of the Oolejsi property located in the northern sections of 9 and 10.
Before a subdivision can Lake place though, utility improvements and roadway
access are needed for the property. Therefore Lundgren Bros. has formally
petitioned the City for these trunk utilities and an east/west roadway connector
between TH 41 and CR 117, Galpin Blvd.. This east/west road connection element
was previously defined as a needed transportation aspect of the Comprehensive
Plan. You will see on the succeeding pages of the staff report, the manager's
comments that elude to the fact that there are a number of competing capital
improvement projects for the city's annual bonding program and that the City
staff is currently looking at determining our overall bonding ability and
prioritizing the projects that are basically on the table at this point in time.
I have asked, contacted Bob Schunicht of Bonestroo to acqulre an estlmate as to
what it would cost to prepare the needed feasibility study which he has
submitted a proposal and lncluded in your packet. Estimated at $11,200.00. At
this point in time, it's staff's recommendation that there's a number of ways
that we could approach thls. One would be to acquire a contingent authorization
to prepare the feasibility study contingent upon the results of our analysis for
23
E';.L;, (:oLti~;.{]. i'lc:cLir~!j hp]';], i3, 19°~:-?.
the I-.,(~n(.li]~u al;.i.J.i[y f~¥ ti'mi.'.:; ye-ai"s cap.[t,",l improvement procji'ams so that if this
l~'(')9['~}il~ w~uJd fit j.~,, th,',L .'staff could administ~',~tively initJ.,ate the Feasibility
:.':loci>,. or w{: could cerLaJ_n]_y approach .it from any other suggested options ~hat
you m~.:3ht have.
Hayer ghmi;:.l.' I just had one quick ,lues'/.ion., I.~; this o~[side our HUSh line?
Chai'les Folcl~': No~ tl~J.s .i.s witl~in the HUSA. Tl~e hi[JSA exteIMs no]'tl~ of TH 5.
The i'iU3~ ext~.i~ds out Io TH 4.l except for a i~or'Lion at the corner, at the
r~c~t-tl'leasL co¥'~e.'c' of TH 5 and 'tH 41. ~Jhicl] J.~ b;.~;ic;.~].ly ~l'~e Fleet Fai-ln p¥operty.
H,.~>'or Chmlel: Okc,>'. hlr~ghf., do you want to h~vr; Bob, did he come up with any
L~,';:;.tl co:.','L~ ;'ts t.o ~l,at t:i~i~; mighL be?
Ct,a'rJ.e.-.--.: Fei. ch: Yeah, h.i.s estimate is $].1~ 200 . 00 to prepare the feasibility
s~,td? whicl', ~ouJd, ~.~ a pro.ioof i:s autl~orized, be credited against the overall
~,~'ojec [ cc)si_
14a>'o,- Chmi~.l.: Okay. _11 missed that. ()kay> any discussion?
Col~ncJ. lman Na:son: Whe~l do you, wJl~r, does Lhe City anticipate knowing about the
bond c]t~t,:tt.i.o'n'/ Any idea ,'tt all?
H;tyof Rlll'lli~].' Thc:. bommdillg .~.'.~ p,..arL of the prob].em, Don?
[~on Ashuorth: I ant.i, cipate having sOiTlethii~g available: fo'r our nex~ Council
m:~'r-'.'i'J.r~o. I t-ld.d il(~-:cl to i'laVC i~. 'for Llli:s one but just couldn't get all the.
If,'~yo'r' c.:hmj.e.l.; 3' think t.l,at's some of the concerns that we have with bonding.
How f~i- ~'~l, ~,':: ~o? t,~l',,::~ c~n we do and Z don't ~¢,'~n( to ,.~ffect our- f'.a[J_lig within
eLtO [)ending by moving al'lead too ¢luJ. ck]y with a ].et of the:se projects. There's
jlZSL ~(.~ m~ml? t[i.i~lg3 wr_. c'.,.tll move ¢~nd proceed with in an of'derly fashion.
Richard.
flOl.~l,cLlma~, WJ.r, 9" Don, I agree with you. l'nl .just sit. tin9 here feeling the
c~.~]'t's ahead of fhe hor's~ a litt].e bi(. It's no( .~.t~t this particmtlaf' project.
l('~ maybe city ,~{I~: 'ri. gl~t ]~ow. One issue we~ve discussed that there's been no
rcsolutiom's on ~s loL size. So every development that comes in, the one south
t,~Jth 141 hc)me~: Lhat Z ~atkec. I today t.~'ytng to picture 141 homes and upteem car's
,ti'id T ~jdr; left kil,d of :¢[ullrled that. I.l'mef"e'c~ even be c~ proposal fei' that density.
~;o lot :;.i~.¢ we',,,~: diSCLtssecl. Z think the~'e was disagreement ~ith some of us on
the Council, olt~ pf'esel~t lot size ,~m'md the density has been br'oughb up. Planning
commission has been a~ gAting thi~ and has gone noehert;. Conme up wlth no
(:om]clusions, ~ just. sdeems ou~' attitude towards future development in this ci[y
I~asTm'( be¢~rm ctarlfJod a~cl Z think Lhose combined, i'd like to see this tabled
~lnti]. tl~ese claf'ifications af-e made.
Hayo'r Chmiel: okay. Tom, do you have any?
Co~tncil. mah I:J,~r k,,.tl'l. ;!,,, l,,~i- ii: I.Ul'sdgf'Oll, ~S [_l.tl'ld~.~f';.~l] ,"t I)ltblically held
compa~ly? ~ want to buy ptock in [hem. They're quite bus>' in our' town. I guess
'l;-"m i~(;,t ag;~il]st ;~tthoi-iz.[ng pl-eparatJ, ofl with noted st.,afl comment.
24
City Council Meeting - ~pril 13, 1992
Mayor Chmiel: I wouldn't want lo proceed with this to go ahead with preparing
this at this time because I just don't want to see anybody waste any dollars
either. I'd like to get some more clarification as to the discussions that
we've had righ~ now before we were to proceed with it.
Councilman Workman: This is not zoned PUD is it? Nor is Hans Hagen.
Mayor Chmiel: No.
Councilman Wing: It could become a requirement.
gon Ashworth: That's a choice of the developer. You can either go through a
stralght subdivision process with your property or you can apply for PUD if you
have more than 15 lots.
Councilman Workman: But if we're concerned about the size of the lots, we don't
have to have a PUD.
Councilman Mason: It seems to me the bigger concern right now is our bonding
capabilities.
Mayor Chmiel: That's my major concern.
Councilman Mason: And maybe with that in mind, it sounds like we'll have a
better handle on that 2 weeks from tonight.
Mayor Chmiel: Maybe 2 weeks or maybe a little more than that.
Councilman Mason: Whatever. I certainly can see some value in tabling it until
we find out about it.
Mayor Chmie. l: Okay. I guess I don't, would you like to say something?
Terry Forbord: Yes sir. Your honor, members of the Council. My name is Terry
Forbord, 935 East Wayzata Blvd.. I'm with Lundgren Bros.. I believe the City's
policy is that if for any reason that thls project does not proceed that
Lundgren Bros. pays the cost of the study, is that correct?
Charles Folch: That's correct. As a part, typically it's been the city's
practice that as a part of authorization of any developer petitioned feasibility
study that the developer provide necessary securities to cover the cost should
the project not proceed ~o that the clty's not basically left holdlng the bag.
Mayor Chmiel: I realize that.
Terry Forbord: As you know, Lundgren Bros. has been working on this site before
you for more than 2 years and assisted the City in working with the
Comprehensive Plan and the extension of the Urban Servlce Area 1nrc this area.
So it's not a new idea and it certainly isn't a new proposal to the City. I'm
sure you're all aware of that Lundgren Bros. has been good cltizens and buslness
people in your community for more than 10 years and we are now at the end of a
project that has been an extremely successful neighborhood community called Near
Mountain. And it has always been our plan, we have always told that to the
25
,:ity_ Tl~c'.. cJt;' ha:-: ,.~.l.u~'tys: ,~ppeared to welcome: Lh,~t. fha[ we wou.l.d be merino to
yr~arr~ of th~ JnJ. t~a). woi-k and the front end work and getting the property
iri:;1Ltued i.l~ tl~e Urb~ ~..~vJ. ce hiea, we ~re now belt]re yOLt to gO the next step of
[lin way. 8i~d c~:F'L,iin].y we don'[ Jr, tnnd :Ln tieing tha'~ in a mal,r, er any
~ii. frorontty than wu ll~e .i.n the p;,st and cef'taJnly ~e'l'e tf-yil~g to a~ways
~ml~f'ova ~nd (;reai. e better neighborhoods HJ. thin the communJ, ty
we Wc)lZ]d (:r)l'L;t.;l'~].)' ,'ti~Pf'r¢c~;&[r; I:he ~::LLy's vole 1. o al. l~;¢~st amzthorJ, ze the stLtdy so
we can coamer~ce w[I.i~ the p.tanr,~ng for th~s area.
Hayer Chmi,':].: .T have ;t mc)rise erin the floo~ at this time.
there .'.~ inst.'Ton?
i'i,'.ty,~i' ('.l,m:Lel: Y;.,.:~ l: di.d m,.tkc, a meLLon th~'L we tahJ. e th/s uni:/], we do f~nd ouL
~411aJ. w~.'.-",-e ,l~:~r~cj ;,~.i.~i; ()Ltl' bol~rjtng. ~I le~L tha't'~: st~11 my posltJo~. .T.r.; there
(-:Ol.t1~(.:';.].~l~al~ H.i. 119: "[']] second that..
C:our,('.ilman Wo'Fkma~: If we wo'ren't able to 9et t. he bond].r,g capability, they
s'Li]_l, llavc-: ~'c~ pay 'f(.~i' 1. j,e fe,.~'.~il~ili'i:y st[zc]y'? I ,fl[:,'tr~ ~f we ,':tpprov[~.(J j.t:.
Mayor Cllmie]' i-.'itheF or, yes. i wa,'~L t.o pu'L ourselves in a position to know
exact]_>, where ~e'l'e going. Whe. tller ~ approve that feasibj, lity stud>, oF not. .'[
th~hk, .T kno~,~, Z W6tl~'~ (o kllO~ where we're at financial:Ly.
C;ouncilm,~n Itar~:.)ll" ]' dell'i: :;et'. /hL~l. t,.~b.t.L~9 th.i~-~ i:~ J~',;.' mc:gs4tge tO t.tindgre, r~
Bros. ~hat we'..'-e, not h~j.)py with whaL 'Lhey~re duino.
J-i.-~y(~l' Ehmjr~.l;- No. Nc',. Tllctt':~, ['J. gl~[.
{:(~Lll'~,';i].m&l, H;L:sOmm: Fol' the :~ake of c].ty fiscal 'r'esponsibiliLy, this: heeds to be
d o ~lr.'. _
Cc, tti~c:i].man Workman: T just thought we could approve it as lo]'~g as they know ti'me
How .t:~il(j is ~ feas.i, bLliLy study good for?
Char]e::; Fo].ch: 'ryr:.ic,:~lly it would have to be renewed on .'..tn arlnLtal basis to
I,.p,'.ldLo c;()l~:]ti'ttc;'L:i. Oll c.:o:~t, factors and Sl.~cJ~ or' J.f there's a~y IleW ~nfor~a'LiOl~ that
may (;Ollle Oll L Oi'l [-~ project.
c<,ur~ciJ, mar, W~rkm,,rl; sn T ju:st tl~Lnk, I c,'.tn live with either.
Hayer Chl, je.l.: Ok,~y. Motion'$ on the floor with a second to table until we know
t~,l~,~L si.ti bor, dJ.n.g :;_s ,.'.~l,d that could come b4, ck to us w.[[hin 2. weeks or no more
I.f,:a'n 4, i:: that r..':c, ri'er'z, L7
[lOll r'~:~J'iwOl' lilt. y¢...,.:$.
26
City Cou.ci]. Meeting --ApT'il 13, 1992
Mayor Chmiel moved, Councilman Wing seconded to table action on authorizing the
preparation of a feasibility study for Street and Utility Improvements for
Lundgren Bros., Project No. 92-5 until the City's bonding capabilities are
known. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Wing: With some of the comments on the news tonight with the State
and the new budget shortfalls, what is the outcome of this as far as the city
goes? Or what's the prognosis for this? Just off the cuff here, I'm curious.
Don Ashuorth: I don't see where some of the State budgetary problems as they
relate to potential cuts that we will face, will not affect our capital
construction projects. Those have continued at a higher level and are not again
affected by some of the State problems which again would be problems for us but
not in that particular area. Of more concern to me is the fact that ue have
been busy in terms of housing and redevelopment activities. We've got a number
of projects that we're looking at as a city. A city type of thing at this
point. Project literally from a year ago which Z think will still get on the
table is that West ?Sth Street detachment. Earlier this evening we approved,
finished the public hearing process for that larger trunk sewer and water
project that will serve literally that whole lower trunk service area.
Klingelhutz has been in before us and I would anticipate that we're going to
look at that as a potential project. So you've got a lot of governing projects
out there and to try and keep it under the $5 million dollar mark, which is
really desireable. Otherwise you move into another whole step of accounting
type of problems. I th~nk the one year, 89, we went over that mark. We were
lookL,g aC rebates back to treasury of about $220,000.00 so staying under that
mark is hiohly des[reable. In defense of the motion made by the Mayor, I think
that the Council would be under a lot of pressure if you accepted money, had
work completed and then said well, your project's not going to be in our
listing. I th~,k that it would put a lot of undue pressure on the Council.
Councilman Wing: That's why Don I'm glad this came up because I wondered, we
moved the HUSA line and I questioned why. And to me that didn't say well, here
we go. Development is wide open. I don't see this as necessarily a priority
project, along with the bonding. I'm also really curious what our priorities
maybe are and what areas of the city and this just may not be one of them. I
think that is a real valid point that concerns me as to give this the go ahead
and then decide this isn't one of our projects. So I'm glad we tabled it.
Thank you.
Don Ashworth: I have no pre-conceived idea as to what areas of the city we'll
pick out but I do see that you're, any area of the city you look at, you're
getting tremendous pressure from people saying, do me and I don't think that we
can do everybody. It's just, we're really stretching ourselves thin to think
that we can do Klingelhutz and the whole lower trunk and then move up to TH 41
and then move over to...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, we'll move onto item
27
i~UTHORIZE PREPARAllON DF I-EASIBII.ITY STiJDY FOR EXTENSION OF NEZ PFRCE DRIVE
._~
THROUGH OWENS PROPERTY TO Pt. EASANF VIEW ROAD, PROJECT NO. 92-6.
[;har'J.n~:; r:o]r:h: ,,s,?, P,'tul has explained bi-iefly .Lt~ his staff 'report, a 'few years
ago the Co~tnci].= C:itF Cornel.!. ba:s.Luall, y appl'oved a concept ].ayo~tt for the
c'x'leTis¢Jon of [',[e:,, l'(-3t¢;:., [1-o111 [.,'i~.~.S j..L[(:~ LIp Lim~OLtg[~ i.O Ple~a~'mt Vio~ Road. Th/s
aJ'Lg~lmen'i; [~a::¢JcaJ.~X war:. u.l:he~d ~'Lh 'i:he plattings of Vir~lar, d For'esL and the
].a:st xear's Troend]e fldcl~t.~o~ pLattLn9. The final segment though through the
Owellr:: ,,,l'om)ei'l. 7 (;oet].(J Ilot l)e made il~ r'c(.:~:l]~ l:j. mc due
b~nk'rm~l>Lu/. At Ll~e 'i. ime 'l.i~at [he Troendle plat was up for co~ideratlon, a
number of rmt~9~m~or~mood ~'e:s.l. denLs o~ Lake l.uc~ Road expr~[~sed concern oveF the
~nFf.ic .impact ti~at would be burdened onto l.ake i..uc¥ bp riel having thl~
:~:e~:on~l,'~i'y co~ct.l.n to Li~e subdivZs.[o~ v;.a Plea.sa~t View Road. At that time the
S~om.~ n~:i 1 bas i.c:a ]. l.x 'r equ~., ~ e . .
~ .... ~1 that LI~ls 1'Leto be broughL back before you at an
,~pp~upr.i,=~e Li,m~.~ u~ii.l~i.~ an 10 monklm pei'iod ~l~en we knew moro abouL wh~t was
I~appen.i.~ ~ith the Owens p~'opertp~ Z[ now appears that the Owenm property may
b~e~:omim'~u o~ls ui" bankr~l.,tc~ a~d tlmat a porLion of the property could potentialZx
be soi~l off. Sinn~: condemYm~t]on of tl~i~ riyh'[-oi-~way i~ 11kelp, the Cltx need~
Lo more 'Lhoro~gh]y defin~, tl~ alignment ~nd '~he as~<ociated constructio~ costs of
Lhis: [inn] ~'o2d ~eg~m~en~ exto~'~:~ion v'[~ feasib.ilitx studp. $10,000.00 as you're
z~wa~'n o[ ~,'~[~ 1'me~-~m p~-evZou~l.x uonLi'ibuted by [l~e
Arldi. t~.omm Lc, wa~d~.: i l~-~ d~:ig~ and con~t~'uctlon of thi~: F1~al road leg and it would
ba F~a:sib]e '[~ applx Lim,.~t, i.h~:]~e do.l. Za~ towed'ds doing a sLudx. Now it ~l'mould
be ~m~dp¥'s'~ood th,~l. Li~.i.~: :>ro.;ecL ~mmay o¥ m~p ~ot o~u~' a~ ~fiy tlme in the near
fut~'i'u. Agai.~m dev~:lol~mme~,L wouZd ge~'me~at.e ~d drive [he m~oed for doimmg this
~mpr~vement but ]~ i.:;~ as Paul i~ mentioned, importani for the clty to better
deli. ha v~hal tl~c ~Ipp~'opl ii, Lo a].ignment should I)o through thai area
p~oi.e~:t that som'r.[dor dmmd uff]~iallp map
H;ty(~',,- CJ'llUl[:',).' ¥;.'.,tll. I (;uc.:s:': Fll dOl'~'l, di.:!;.ag:'ee w~LIi tll,'.~t. Tl~c:r,'_:'a (;n~ thin.~ here
.'~'n tbs.. :.-';e:;ond pa;'auraph ;..~rld third ~ine from the boLtom i:s, we ma), have to go in
and (:o~ldem~l th:: '.r'Jif':,]. I'[~".~.:~.'-of rigl~L.-of-.wax. ]-f ~e go 11~ Lo condemn that final
pioc;i.' O[ ~J. gJlL 'of..wa?, ti:c: City i~ 90illg 'tO have to pax ToY that. Right?
CJl,-.t'~'].e.:-~ F(~l. cj'i. TJ'lo'f 'F~: (:¢)1
Hayer C:hlniel-" i don"t thi. nk that the City .~l~ould have 'Lo pay for any of that.
.r tl~tnk if J.t'~ goJ. im9 '[o be an advantage for tho~e developers, those propertie~
~f,o~t.ld ~om~Jm~ be p~ovided to the city without a cost going through the
COlldOlllll,.{ J..:~(JIl I)~'O(~P:~:'; -
Char].es Ko!ch; !t:s a complicated issue but it boils down to is a matter' of
: ~r~ing. ':o,.:"re c:~t'r'ect_ I mean if the City proueed:s with c;ond:'.lnr~ation, we're
9oln9 to have to buy I.h:., l~roper'ty. Mhethe'r tt'l,'-tt eo:~t could actually be added
would have to auk Roge'r ~i'~at 'Lhe JmpJ. icatZone; m&ght bo on that, ~hether ~e
co~].(.I ac:LILa]~7 ~,'~ku pi'r~vJous cost from r[(jl~t-of~wa~ aoqLt~s~tJon and ~noorporate
Jt Lnto an actual i'oad r:ol~L;truot~ui'~ pru,jeet mapbe a peat o¥' ttqc) later do~n the
r'(),'td. 01' belle'['[ t as¢;es:~;flml]l. I. ype purpo:~r-.:8.
Ro,~e.r I<~ut~(~r,' _...cost or fight of. t~ay,.,dYaft 'fea~ibili'~.p report, You c;an
r.'V[~l~ I-"T'.'.-"l.:',J.l'e I')].al'l~ ,tfl(J :sp[.~C;.':.;.. ,
2_8
City Council Meeting - April 13, 1992
Mayor Chmiel: So there would be nothing wrong for us to proceed with this but
my concerns are the .... of the condemnation. Just to make sure that somehow we're
not going [o be paying that to that developer or property owner.
Roger Knutson: Ordef'ing a feasibility report does not commit you to do the
project. It doesn't determine how you're going to pay for lt.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Richard.
Councilman Wing: I think we talked about this for a long time. Time to start
mo,~ing.
Mayor Chmiel: Yep. Tom. Mike. Can I have a motion?
Councilman Wing: So moved, preparation of feasibility study for Nez Perce Orive
through the Owens property.
Councilman Workman: Second.
Resolution $92-51: Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Workman seconded
authorization to prepare a feasibility study for the extension of Nez Perce
Drive through the Owens property to Pleasant View Road at a cost not to exceed
$10,000.00 and that Engelhardt and Associates be assigned as the project
engineer. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Mayor Chm[el: Somehow Charles I'd like us to stay on top of that portlon of it
making sure that we don't get the specs somehow.
Charles Folch: You bet.
REOUESTS FOR USE OF FUNDS FROM SURFACE WATER MANAGEHENT PROGRAM.
A. APPROVAL OF PURCHASE OF CONTAINMENT AND SORBENT PRODUCTS FOR THE CHANHASSEN
FIRE DEPARTMENT.
B. APPROVAL OF A TEMPORARY SUMMER INTERN TO CLASSIFY WETLANDS.
Don Ashworth: In the absence of Paul, Paul dld take both of these ltems back to
the Water Surface group and they dld recommend approval. I thlnk that they're
fairly self descriptive. However, if Council members have questions, I'll try
to answer them.
CoLLncilman Mason: Being a part of thls group that's working on thls, they seem
to be more than appropriate requests.
Mayor Chmlel: Okay, Tom.
Councilman Workman~ I agree.
Mayor Chmlel: Rlchard.
Councilman Wlng: I was quoted in the paper of saylng that this Water
Managerment program is the way I think spending our tax dollars. I've been
29
those ~lmcetJ.:-~S,.: .~nd you F'nopl~.: ought i.o bs co~ilptJ, il~er~ted. Z think
i~,'~k'~l'ly UOfll? ;~e;}dw~y :.~.l'ld Z'lll glad t~e rl/~(Jed th;~t. I ;zgf'eo with these
Hayer 6h,~je]: Ok,ry. ~ gue..:;s 1; .just have a c:ouple things on th.ts. 1' don't
dJ.$agree t~.[tl, uh,.t['{: b~;J. n9 saJ_d.. Tak.[[~9 ti'lis out of tllJ~s partJ, cular fund. Haybe
yell ca1-1 answer' th~.s I]J.c:hard. Should the
r. heir b{.tclg~.l: for 'i:l~,'.se k.inds
£:our, ci].man Wi'~g: No.. It's not (:u'r" baJ. lga,~e. It just, ~e t;ave enough training.
~c cctn call ill P].y~,ou~.ll. Tl~e), tlave I:rttnkloads of this but tllat's a half hour,
,~r, I~ottr ;~r~d ~:- .ju~;!. h,t~; ~ ...;:ttLtatio~ OCC'u~' where had we had this, ~e could have
imrl~r~dJ, aLely moved f~r (;OliL~tl-ilflUil~ ~zlld then LI]at's the ~ncl of J.t. Ho're not tn
i. he haz~ac busJ,~ess. [,J¢~'f'¢ only ask&ng for the bare mZn&aLtm that should we fa.ti
requeut. ~,le don"f. ~,J,Zn:. (o be in the busJ~,ess and frankly ~e don't have the
mc)ne? ]~ol dJ.d ~' ~ar,'l. '(o ,'.t:;l< fei J. L.
Ben flsl',~or't.h.~ Tf .1; .~ay add. ¢~s I understand it, these are bill back type of
expell'.¢8s :;o ~i'loevef- caused the spZJ. 1, ~h~ever is J_nvolved ~nd ~hat not and Z
th.i. nk generally ~Je do 9et c:):-::ts back I~u'[ s,,n~e of '~l]e,;e, ~f.'~ ti~e ~nJ. tial cost,
t. 1~:~ .tniti,~l purcl~,~se so yn~z'~e got iL ,,nd I:hen you c~ replace it after 'that.
f~t Lh~L point .tn time but .~.~*~: k.ind of the que~:tlon of ~he~-e cio you come up ~ith
14a>'of ChmJol' hl]('l tl~e other was, I k~ow that staff was contemplating on 'trying
to ge.t this pu].]_ed togethei' bec,tus~ .3o ~lil~'s ll~,~ef'llif, y leave is col, ing up vef'y
q[t;ckly and ~t ~;carcs me just [~ :¢e~ her around yet because I keep looking and
r;,~y Jo A~, why dor,'t you ~i.ts~ 9o hullo, r;l',e's so close a~d Fei. she's here but
holy ].o'~'~l j:.: thJ. s, T k~'~o~ ue'r'e ~naki~e al',p¢opria[ion of $5,000.00 for this.
l.J~-;'f'e looking ~tt ~lO I~ours. 2 weeks and we're look~,g at. 60 d~tys. Approximately
about $4,800.00 J.s ghat tqo'1-e going to exped&te. ~s: ;~ real}y going to take
tl~[ ].o1~ t~ d~ thd.[ ~nvellt~)r-y, ~ guess
L'~on ~:~huo'r'Lh.'. ;r kind of f. ook tile opposZte appl'oach. I questioned whether or
n~:i: tl~;y'r..'¢ ~jo.[~g i.:) be able to get tl~em all done in that per~od of ~ime. They
do I~eed [o ~o out .tn a~IdJtJ, on[o typ$n9 it, physical1/ locate it ~h~ch ~eans the
c~our ,~p ~.~: 9~in9 to b~: new, dod to be Lake~ J.n some otl~:~ gay to physically
say here is thJ. r; edge and nog ue want to transpose tha~ back onto a topography
~,,;p ti~,~t.'..:~ bacl:. ;,~ the office ,and .it's nc)t easy to do. I ,~ear~ when you're
stal]din9 o~tt Jn ~ rt td y,')Lt krlow and al~ Z at a 988 or 8229
l'layol- Cl~l,i,';1.: But ~io U.S. Geologicals show much of our wetlands on them?
Char].~.s Fo]ch.'. Typ.~calJ. y they sllow :some. of time la'rger obvious ones but they
ce'rt,'~.irlly are.~'~, soin9 ~o.
ldayor Chmlel: The :;m~ller they don't touch.
.r.h,',i'le.'.'; F~;}.cl,; fl,e J.evo] of de'la.(1 jLtSt isr,'t tllef-e.
?~'.:".~ A',:li~,Jnr~.im: ,~;i'E'l~'~t 'tho'.-.~e likt~. any 10 foot i],tervals or do they go lower?
3C
City Council Meeting -- April 13, 1992
Charles Folch: Well they can vary.
Hayor Chmiel: Okay, any other discussions? Can I have a motion?
Councilman Mason: I move to approve the requests for funds.
Councilman Wing:
Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve the expenditure of
the following funds from the Surface Water Management Program:
1. $1,000. for the F/.re Department's acquisition of containment and sorbent
products.
2. $5,000. for a contract with Ellen Klanderman to undertake wetland
identification classification for development of the Official Wetland
City Map.
Ail voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Mason: Mr. Mayor7 I'd just like to make a quick comment on what the
management program has been doing. Particularly with the street sweeping. I
know Charies and pubiic works saved a considerable amount of money in how they
figured out how to do tile street sweeping and I wouid iike it to be on the
record that that whoie group of peopIe be commended for their efforts.
Hayor Chmiel: You're right, I agree.
Councilman Mason: And if I could just make one more comment. I live on, as you
know, on Woodhill and Carver Beach and the second time the roads were swept, I
was bringing my kids home from daycare and my daughter noticed that daddy, these
roads are rea].ly clean. I think who's ever doing that ought to be tipped. I
said they will be honey. But it is noticed and I have had some people in the
Carver Beach comment.
Mayor Chmiel: I've driven through a lot of towns recently and I have to admit
that I think we're know as Mr. Ciean. It reaily Iooks great.
Councilman Mason: And I think what we're doing is serving more than one
purpose. Certainly the water's getting cleaner but it's also making the city a
oicer place to live. People are noticing it.
Councilman Workma.: What's the rule on sweeping a street? Somebody on my
street doesn't have a driveway or a yard and has a lot of sand around and
they've come around t~ice, They've come around twice but there's more out there
now. What are we doing? I mean is two it or are we going to do it as needed?
Mayor Chmiel: Do you have a great big broom and a dust pan?
Cour~cilman Workman: I've been out there helping my neighbors, I have. I've
been in the street cleaning it up and I know where the water rolls downhill.
31
F]'i. i. ~.' J"oJJ~JJ(i:' ],. H~-'.;.'. L ~ I)g ~J? f' ~..L ]~"(. , 1.?¢)S'
C!~,ti'l~.'.'.: /o!.::h. ;'..'l, lc.',t] .! }' _;[ ii' '..=; ;,1,~Lori~ll LJlat"s or soil Lhat's w~t.t;hil]g out
(:Ill:.,.] f.J'l;. :..ti:..;:I. i" '., ' (.~ fl, (Jr~,)~:.~,~pm,,.-.ll[: J'lolO~: L)lL~.J(Jjl'lg ,~ll(:l '.:~u,::!i, .ii.':.: ~:;,.~J.~' i.~, Lo the
· r'~:,~?on?~ih.;..!.i i.?,:f th,'. bk~i].clo'r arid/or developer depending on hou Lbo situation
,:,'-~..,[~-,.~ R hill ;[ o ~'. ,'"., ~'J h:.:: ::..'. ~ r~'ing to say thaL wi~h a ~-'.t'~'a~.ght' 'race .
.':,';Ll~',,::1l,,a:~ t~ii'~9- Jl ~l.'-;o Wa~; '..~cr;' apprec.~at]ve uf the Villager pick;i, ng LIp on
LJ'~'L mae'Li~g ,.~l,cl khc ,'~rtLcle J.~l l:l'~rx p~pe~. I 'i:l~ol.Lgl'~t ii. w;~s ill[~-~]_actu,'~lly done
~L~'~', ]~ ~as ~l~i.:'i'~:~;!..iT',9 Lo ',:,"'.~, ] I~,J.s~:~d Ll~at p~rt of the m~eLing :so I'm glad the
I,,:~v.ing. ~'oi' FLtt~t:'.~ ),~i'c] ~,Jnr'k for the montJ'~ of Hay, do ~e have anything that
'F[tgI. I.J.,~L~'L; p~?(~[)]_b~ SkJi:~tp[llg 1. j,r~j_i' ya~(J uJork .Lnf. o Lhe sti erst? No~ ~e've $~ept them
l)~.~J. 'Lh~J.r' yn~'(i ~.:~arl-~iip ~.}.ii,~ ]~ core,rig, Z'm seeing a ~ot of stuff go J. nto the
i'i,.~yo'~' C:1~,~i~.'.1: Y~:.'..; w~~. do. ;]i~'~ ~.-~(:'L on;z ,J,~l>, l~ ~,~a~; al'riving Ltp Kerber Lind someone
W,{:.: uJ.O~&ll[il~j Softie oJ' tJl~ .;tt'~at~ ()fi' O'j: J{~Y[J~t al'~cl they were blowing things
ovr:r tj~' ?;fr~;~t ,-~',,d ~:~'~>' ?,.~d just finished ~weepirlg 'ti]em. ] just happened Lo
c~)mo b.~c:k ihl'ough cit/ l-la].]. ,~tnd Z :-;tOpl.,ed in gcul.'L'~ office aild they s~ei'lt
:~om,z,)n~ ,'J. ght out. L~lei"? ,~qc.I wl'lul': ~ L~i'lt home .~.k w~s just as c].ean as it was
.,r..oJi ll,-~r'r: '.,"t ~.~ ,':nf('.,ruod a:s a Sf.,-~te I_itte'~'iTig law. Just like throwing any
* . .
f::):i~;('i].m,:L:l ,~. U, r:oLtld ] jLl:-;t :'.;I.~gge:-:'L b~:c,'.~us¢ ~')f Lh:a amount o'f molie>' J)~ing
.':j.,;.,.~f orlr. J i Jl~-; ;,aOUl-l[ ()J' j.~i~I).';..!.I.L::.; ~111_(., J:li].._'., tllcLt tho Coul~.y Sheriff's
J~ ~ ~nomr) to w,-~tnh for that and speo.i.[J, ca]]>, the CSO'c al;d p~'LiolE:,. WaLcll 'fo'r
t. Jlo."?..;': V.~.()] '[Lj. rjIl!-: .
DISCUSSION OF LIQUOR LICENSING ORDINANCES.
[1(~1', Ash~.,u~'tll: .T.'v~.~ h,~d dl~SCLt.S'.-.;.LoilS, I thil~k u~Jtl', most of the COLtilcJ. 1. l'hi:~
i'~a].'LX s'LellmS back to the ~sucoes~; that h~ts occur'red in the~ ~rea of eigaYottes a]~cl
o¥',I.]n,~m'mc~:, cou~t:i]m,:~l~ ~Jing did ~ uor, siderable amount of ~ork in terms of kind
of ,~ ',~,.t(':k,d~'(~m.m.~,~.: f~,'Ll~;l', ~il :'~'.~-;:z.'.~CJl.[.l/,g the OX~]l'lg ].~W. Some uf the affects of
,';1. c:,;,h()] ,.~rm~J ~:~Jrm~; oF the tlmirmg~; L~c= mnLgl~t cor,~;ide~ "'' .
UO.tl~g Ive ;~[~mmai'~zo(J those
Ti;~(~ look.ti'm,:.]-ti .'L ~noc:.[f].[:,'~tt.~on o~ the I, imm.tlnm~m ~z~j~ Fei tho soles. Right
~J,,~t'c: J,$ anti 1L~. Pot~:nI.L~117 ].imJL'J.~mg Lhe rm~mber of on r~ale .licenses to like 1
j_):'r 2,5o() f~Ol~U..l_,:l..~.()rm :::o ill,Lt, t,J()[~ld progi&~ i.~s w.LtJ'm 6. Ai,d the limitation of 1
par 5,000 fei' off ~-:a].~: o,' a f:,a~'t i.l',~aof whiuh ~ou.]d provide 3 and currently
h,'~w Lhe Cour~c.'i.] feo].,,~ oh tl,.~'t, i,Jc~ j~w Z~ce'r,:;e:'; ~;Ltt,J.n 300 f~',.t of a school o'r
('l],.~rc:l, alld anc~tli(.~i' olle Lll~t (':oLLrlcJ].ll,~!n bJ.t~lg Ltl'id ]] d~sc,.~ssud. ]l'm i~ot q~Lte sure
(.,il th~?: os~ J)lJl. C".'JJ~,~I~L'[OII Of off '.~;d].e LiS a coh('litional. ~se ~n the bus,ness
Ciky Council Meeting - April 13, 1992
fringe. What this would do would mean that the existing off sale store at TH 41
and TH 7 would become a non-conforming use. As long as he continued to sell or
if he sold the establishment to someone else who continued the liquor store, it
would remain as a valid grandfathered type of use. However, if it ceased for
more than 1 year, nobody could make a new application for that particular area
because that is business fringe. You've got a lot of powers in terms of off
sale. A good example is the SuperAmerica up in that area had a strong desire to
bo able to sell beer and the Council made the determination that they would not
allow sale of beer in that particular corner. That decision was absolute. They
did not try [o fight it because they knew they'd lose. If you were to have said
that you did not want the liquor store up there, your decision would be
absoluLe. There is a potential you may get an application like that from the
area around Brooks which would be adjacent to the residential neighborhood just
to the south. Ny guess is this Council would say no. But to eliminate the
potential from them even coming in and applying, if you remove them, if you
removed it as a conditional use ill the BF zone, you wouldn't even have to worry
about looking at the application. The final, I guess that was the final. If
the Council would like to pursue these any further, we really should go through
a public hearing process. We should notify each of the owners. We should
invit~ them to that public hearing. I would suggest that the public hearing be
held at the Public Safety Commission level and at the conclusion of that Public
Safety meeting, or hearing, that they, meaning Public Safety, make their
recommendation back to you including all hearing comments.
Mayor Chmiel: I think that's a good idea. One of the things as I sat back with
thls and when I was readlng lt, resale of an off sale establishment. Normally
when they sell them, and of course it's free enterprise system. They get an
exorblnant amount of dollars for the clientele they're supposedly golng to get
plus also the liquor license with that purchase that they're going to buy. For
an off sale, what's our fee cost, $200.007
Don Ashworth: I believe that's set by Statute.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah it is set by Statute and I realize that. Do we, in that
particular process, is there any charges that are made for the transferring of
that liquor license from one to the other? And I don't know what the Statute
covers on that. I know it's not a considerable amount of dolllars. I guess I'm
trylng to tie it in so we know exactly who has that liquor license and who has,
or if we have so many, we don't want more than one person having two
establishments or 3 establishments in town. I thlnk licensing each individual
is what it should be.
Don Ashworth: Well that is in the ordinance right now. You can't own more than
one on-sale in town. I don't know if we can regular no more than one owner for
off sale.
Roger Knutson~ You could.
Don Ash~,orth: Okay. In regards to the fee portion, if an on sale goes out of
business, like Pony at one time had transferred. I can't remember which of the
two ways 1t was but we maintained the entlre fee from the new applicant and we
kept the prorated fee from the other. So on the one, ~e received like 6 months.
One half of thelr fee was charged to them, one half rebated and the new owner
{?.it? r.:oun,..:i.!_ Hc..'~,f.[l',(.~ :%p~ £J. J:-*,,
pay thE: ;.'.nl. ii'u re.;.... ".::~ ~.f~e~;: w,.;.:.-.: ;.~ ]ittlo .,_.xtra kicker on there.
i'i,:..ui-r.'.i',rf~j;~,l.; (;nd Z 'i.l~k Ll'~,'.~'L Lt~o t.;'..O0 ~:-...,'e For of .~a reason,~bJs.
~.i.-'r. ~bsol~tte].y un[)e]Jevcablr.:, hs 3[ see ~n so~,~ other c~t~es as to what they
P.,)'..},'.:.r K],LtL:':orl: Eve. r';' unr': o'[ I.i)e. 3La;¢~..-..; (.'.t~a,'ge~: 'th~.'. same. I misc~poke just a
r.,ucond ago wh,'~.~] Z ::;aid you could l~.,~it the IlUmbr:f' or O~f Sa].e to one. Yell 1'~2r~
I.~.~ ~z~d¢;'~' St.¢,t~: ],'~u. On sale ;.:_-': whe're you .have; the discretion. So,~e cities say
you c:;:.~ have ~,or'~ ti~all one. Oi. lle.~' cJ.t.;.os y()u C;tl'l 011.~? h,~vc, Olle_ BU[ evm. ryone
~:]'~,',rO,.:u $.'?00. O0.
Don fl:si'~uo'rth: :r don't Lh.tr~k al. i.l,e p're~:en~ 'ti,,e th,~'L ,.tn?c,r,e has paid a premium
'[~r ,~ ~uj LJ.(.:el'~;rt ,'t~d '~;.'~; I)cuause u;¢ h,~v~: uo r~any. Zf you ~ent i. llto ,]
1.f.~,.~t~tl.~on typ~ of thJ. n9 ,:,s Js being ~.;ttgge'.~;ted here, th~t~ ~ouid sho~ that
[I,~'c':¢ onn ,~dd.iLio~J. o~,~: ~', e;~cl, of ~wo c~ttegorL~s J.f you use the ratios that.
] 'k,~: pf';~r~:r31~tec] he, re. But once thz~( one be~.:oaes consumed, ti~en if you wanted to
~)ci. ii,lo li',e off sale bLtS.ll,t~:¢s, yOU'd I'lavc to buy out one of the existing owner=~
¢i~].(;h ,,~,',s ti~;-~( ),oft 1.1~en f:,rol')~bJ.y wott~l pdy 3 p~'elnJltl~ tO get that l~cense.
r.o~tncJ, lm~tn H.-',:-:~n' [ .like., tl,e idea of ~.he Public Safety havf. ng a hearil~g on .Lt.
C,.~.~c:J. lman ~o'~-kii~a~,- ~-~'e you awar,'_: who t. he new ChaJr~an :t~'.. thoLtgh?
cc,~tnc1L,i..~.l~ H~,:~o~: Th,:tL .'i.,'s pretty
Cott]~cil,~an ~.~or'kl,,4tn: T. was kind o[ confused Don by what you were tryin9 to say
I~::1;;: ;{S f;li' ~ 2,:~00 ~tl]d 5,000 ~tnd then ~ [ that would ;zJ.].ou one addJ. t.f. onal.
mcari wu could get 5 al L5,O()O. ]: was kited ~,[ ,.:o~fus~¢d by how you weF~¢ kind of
putt.$n9 Lhnt out. Z don'L know what uou}d be good. Z thJnk the L~quor
k i~om i'~.ght t~ot,¢ u.i. th ,~hat ~,~t~ h/tv¢. ~ know t. llere ~er'e some concerns about whether
ue shotttd f'~;~f-.~.(;'[ I)~tsLn(~r;r~e3 o~' nol.. Z don't know th~tt Zf ue a~oued
Ll~t was a~reddy Jn town to be here, then they of course uou}dn't be angry. It
toou].(I I~e the l,e~,p[¢~ u~l~u'cl ca,mt 'Lo oome in that'd be angt'y. Dui Z heard when we
~,.~e,r;. d.i.'.;CLt~:oin9 c:i.¢~"~tL~,. ;'omt k~,o~,¢ ::',~'op].u uou].d always drlve the al. coho1
th.i. nk t~c sl~o,tld [~e t,~k.tn9 a h~rd Look ~t Lt. Z. t.h.i, nk P,.tbLLc Safety slmou~d
~¢.'a]t;' be ]~',okJ~O h;.~',"d at .Jr. T [i~.tnk 'they c;o~tld cio inJ. tially at least a better
jo!~ tl~;t~ re.ts but T Ll~ink we need ~o addYer;s it bnfo~'c [.( get~': to be something
;.h;~t wn wislm ~e had t,tken cai"~¢
f]OI1 ,q.,~huo'~'th: ]~ ~.all ]~l:Spolid l:O that. I ,~aybe sl~outd have repeated the o)'
p¢~f'[ thr.,.reof tt:'~dr.:~ r~!,ll)e~ 2. ][.t ,~a:: Lhe ~I~'~e.r~t that 2n e~theY of those sectiohs
[i~,.'.tt: ~.'.~. ~ould be. tatki~l~..~ i. tboltt, the ~u,r~be'r of ]..tccnse so in th,'._', fZr'.st c~s(;, the
~if~lj. tal.'ion ~:; i.l,e l~umber' 0'¢ o1'~ s,'t].e 11ceh:aes to one per 2,500 or' part thereof.
so w~t'i~ ¢~ popLtJ, at.ton o¢ rougll].y 12,()00 p,'.,.op~e: t~c'r.~.: 'r'ight ,:',t boi'(Je'rJ..tlle right
n,',u b~z'i', ti~.'l:'; wo~tld ~,rovJde fo'r .$ because you;d have, whether it's 12,000. Let's
.-'~:]uttfll.': .ii.'[3 abo~tl. 1.2,¢)00 J.s tl~e popLtJ.~l, ion. W.(th wof'dagc, of' p,z]'t theYeof, you
34
City Council. Meeting - April 13, 1992
would therefore have the allowance for 5. Once you went over 12,500, it would
actually kick Lip to 6. The next one, the limitation of 1 pek 5,000, I didn't
put this in but ~t was intended, or part thereof, would mean that you'd have the
allowance for 3 off sale stores and you currently have 2.
Councilman Workman: I mean I don't even know and hopefully Public Safety would
find out. I don't even know for 2,500 or 5,000 or 10,000 or part thereof is
realistic or not. These people have got to pay $10.00 for a bottle of Boones
Farm and w(~'ve only got i store in town, they might think we don't have enough.
I don't know. So I don't know, it's real fuzzy for me.
Don Ashworth: If I could, to think that we would have 12 bars in the downtown
&rea scares m~.
Councilman Workman: You're talking about a country boy who grew up near Carver.
Councilman Mason: Is this one of those Boy Scout stories?
Councilman Workman: Let me tell you about my country boy days. And I can tell
you this, that the competition for customers gets very fierce. And I can tell
you that I purchased, as an under aged adult, alcohol in that town it was so
fierce. So I don't know. I don't know what it's going to be. But that's what
we need to flnd out. There's a lot of questions. I trled lt, I dldn't 11ks lt.
Councilman Wing: But the point on the public record is you were under aged.
Councilman Mason: I wonder if the newspaper section...
Mayor Chmiel: Do you want to keep talking?
Councilman Workman: The only other thing is, Mike Hason is no Bill Clinton.
Councilnlan Mason: I'm grateful for that.
Councilman Wing: Paul Krauss has comments regarding plannlng issues and there's
philosophical issues that I thlnk go along with the Council. I thlnk the
University of Minnesota has a wealth of information. If we had a publlc
hearing, they wouldn't miss the public hearing. There's a lot of lssues here
and I don't know if we have a problem or not. My little memo here was the rough
draft. I don't know what Karen dld with the final draft but my last comment is
that wlth proper state laws and city ordinances, perhaps we don't need anything.
But on number 5 on the second page here, it says discussion of alcohol to be
pulled out of any discussion of buslness and discussed only as a health problem,
so on and so forth. There's two separate worlds and I don't think there's any
discussion tled this discussion in wlth business. I thlnk buslness lsa result
of our decisions here. And if us're using the excuse of controlling or messing
wlth businesses, we're talklng about a controlled drug and substance, the very
reason the laws exist. So we have every right to and we have every reason to
and we, it's our responsibility to do that so I'd like to stay away from the
discussion of adulbs and business. Let's just deal with the issues of the
alcohol and licensing so on and so forth and then get them lnto buslness as they
might grow. I see them as very separate issues.
35
t!.,),c',':' Chmi::;L: Pi",.,i~]l)i.t~cn c:omil~g back.
CoLtri(;.~J. lll,'~i', M[J,.9.'. Y~-:,'tll, and Li~at's ti~e other th.i. ng. r~oy~ ~ don't ~;.,nt to get
[!'l',.'r)]ve.d ~rl [h~i. i.~oc:att~:e .T-'r~'l not ~;utggez~.til~g that at all. Not at. all.
fl,'.~yoi' chmLe].: Ye~l'~, Z tll.tl,k 'Lt'~ pi'obably ot,'r' i~ltent Lo make sure LI~aL ~e don't
J,~.tv:-.~ a~ urea' abttnd~nce, of them and I t.h~nk that ~e prefer that the numbers that
r:o~tl~c';.lma,-~ Wfn,.; .t' !.,hink '~ 'r'a~tl.]y lfke you sending it to Public Safety but if
PIt[;Z.[C S~fety L:S gOillO tO t,:~ke .[.t a~ ~:t colmmmi~iorm, 't:her~ I'd like ti]em to take it
:-:n¢'.i.~tt:;:].)' a~d mOVe: or: t.[,iO and assist the council and rmot ].ally dolly armd lag
bel~ind like amlo'(Imei' Collmlmmir;~J. ol'm Z aa s~¢e~llg dO.illg o11 some iosu(;8;. L. et':; eithei
~j-~ ','he .tr;s:uu:': ;nd get the facts and make some decisions and he}p ~s or dl'op ~L
,.~ltogelLhol'. ~l.t( )'O[.l (itty3 Cal'm f'ea].ly I~ve ~m~ ZI/pLIL J. ll this one, and f'eaJ.ly $f
;',.,u [mare an ,~L..¢..siuLam-~ce and Z Lhink i'L needs some dec:lslons al'Id some information
t,i c:r';e m',t r.ed.
H.i)'o,' C!'lmJ~]' f.'.ott].d Z I'~,tve a motion? bJitfl those; I-ecommendations that were
pr'r.'.ViOlj.:a.ty d.tsCLt:-:s~:d ,.tnd app.l.y this to Pt~t)J.J.c Safety roY' 'Lheir review and
c',i.:'-:~'assio'r~ bar:k ;.o £Ol.tnc11. And ,hat limitation of time woLtlcJ yOI.t like this to
back to Council.? .? months?
t?o~l,cil, mall Wing'. Yeal~, it:s: going to take some time.
ilayoi' Ctlmi'~:l- '¢'~z,~ll, .[.t;s not going to be sometl'13, l,g you turn over real quick. 2
mo~,ths :~,.~ t,~l~a'l, my sltgge:~tjOl] wot.tld be. Or is that sf. ill sho'm't?
'.-;,:oft. l{,sr;' Tier; onl. y factor th,tr...Fi'm-. Hayo'r' w111. Ilave Ol.t'm- anl~lZai open hoarse
dur.i.n~ Lhe, :in plane of the June £Omlf~is.'.:.::~Oll meeting as we always have. It may
nol. bo done o]1 .'i spec.ific nigl,t as 'fa'r a.s a pLtb].ic hearing or meet.i, ng so I think
J. rl 3 months w;: ~holtld be in a good po:~.~.t.ion o'r' I'll ;-'eport back to you ....
ii,'.~yof Ci,miel: Oi I w;::s going to s~.tgge:.'~t ii,at we come back to Comml',CL1 witl~ tills
at the ~¢.rst meeti~9 J.n ¢/[tgLtSt.
Cottncilman Wi ng; Ia that talki~g ,,t)c~t 'Lira.'-:?
F:Ol.tllc.[lman Workmate. That's a long I. ime.
H..*..yol' Cl~mie].'. Mr:it, I'd .1. Lk:; tl'lem to bake enough time Lo discl.tSs this to come
up ~¢]th conclt, s]o;,s 'r'atho'r tharl t.o use a hip draw.
Councilman Wo~'km,'tl~" I j~.tsf, thii~k, wl'~t is tl~at? Flay, Ju~e, July, ¢tugust. 4
months. Th,i:[ seo. m~; ,q. J..oil9 time. l; don't thlnk Me"re emphasizin9 maybe the
I LT-gOIICy.
.H~yor ('h:niet: It's yo~tr p]easu,'e.
Counci.l. man WJ.l~9: Wl~al..io tho Commission, Scott wi~at'$ your po.sitiol~? You'Fe
doi. n§ t.o have to c:a'r'~'7 '~i~:.. bali oll a lot of this. 14ow much time do you ~ant?
City Cou~cil Mee~ing -- April 13, 1992
Scott Harr: I think the most appropriate thing to do, would be to discuss it at
this Thursday's Commission meeting and see what kind of a time line they feel
would be appropriate. The first meeting in August would really give us 3
working montl~s. May, 5uly with one commission meeting off. I think we can do
it either way.
Councilman Wing: Let's have a report by July. I'd like to get a public hearing
in fairly soon and that information ought to be available.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, how about our second meeting in July then? Is that what
you're saying?
Councilman Wing: Whatever you're comfortable on.
Mayor Chmiel: I guess I just don't want to push them. I'd like them to really
take this and look at it in depth. Come back with a good, strong
recommendation.
Scott Harr: Could I suggest that I present it to the Commission Thursday night
at o~Lr Public Safety Commission meeting. That we have the public hearing as
soon as posslble and we'll return with a report in July. If there's any
problems, we'll report back to you at the next council meeting. I don't see a
problem wlth JLtly.
Councilman Wing: Well, we seem to have a consensus. I would make a motion then
directing thls issue to the Public Safety Commission. Z think the guidelines
are set forth in thls document for thelr beneflt. Questions. The tlme frame
being a public hearing as soon as possible but to report to the Council the
first meeting in July.
Councilman Workman: Second.
Mayor Chmiel: There's a motion on the floor with a second to have this back to
CounciZ by the first meeting in July.
Don Ashworth: Point of clarification. I think he started saying the second
meeting in July. It might be better. That gives them the opportunity to, if
they've got any flnish up work and then lt'd be back to you.
Mayor Chmiel: I would make that friendly amendment, if the first and second
would accept that? Okay.
Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Workman seconded to send the item of Liquor
Licensing Ordinances to the Public Safety Commission to hold a public hearing
and report their findings back to the City Council at their second meeting in
July. A11 voted in favor and the motion carried.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS:
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, item number 11.
Councilma, Wing: Mr. Mayor, would you allow one comment. This is not
necessary.
37
i"~,-xyoi-' C;hm:ial "- J t,'.;I.
":'-bll~'l('.i.].lTi,"].ll ['J~I1SJ: I~,ll[ (::;tr~ .'E .jl~;f. make nile po.i.l~t.. :3
:"l:.t:,'~:,i' C:l~r,',iel' Y~.-'.'.:: al~d r,o.
E:,)lil,c'..L].,~d~ H';n~j: Hayt')~: ,i_ Lot s.t:/.e. PZ~,qnJ. ng Cumm~ss~or,. Get their butts
cj.~:,.~.~-. ~]~:L mov.~.ng oil Ll'lJ.~. .T.'(J ][.~.J(,'-: I:() soo l'Jioll~ dJ.'Fo(.:Led to ill,..~k;3 ~ d:.;c.'[sLo[~ el~.
I. JlJ."; ]~,l... ::',iT.,:': o;r ~' ] [~j~j,; thc: CUUIlt.:J l. :-_;''!'IOLJ~CI take..iL L(l')Ol[ tll~Jlll:.¢e..LVe?,' ' i.o :start
~.'~L.;~le ::o~r:~; de(:.f:-~L~.;~:':: t)~;CaLt:S,'-: i-he.~e deve].Ol>m.'?.llt$ ;.~'e co~,J.~g .in and
,.),., T i~:.. '., ,-tul..
H:-~yo~' r;hm.tel.. J.$.,OOI) squar'e feel Lr..; ~here ~e',"e at rLght nou.
r':~',~i,r:i.i.m;~n H(~,.q- Yr.,..~ u';;', L,J.JLh Pllr]:':~ :Jot~ i:u ]0. ); ju.'-;~, went ~.hrOL~gl~ Neal'
!-I,~u~-~l.,t",~, !~hJ.c:h L:-; ,-~ F,'r';;r,~.iete project ~,(I Z t~as am~/_ed ~tt I~ow 'r'ea].]y
,.'.,:, wi. th no L.~.'.:.c. ky~r,l:'~ ]' ~l()~"t 1Lke J_L ,'~ld t don'L Hant any more (Jeve].opment
,:o,~J~:; ~ ?run ,,y po~:~t, ion I~r,L~J we've address;ed Lhat £srxue.. So Z th~nk it:.~;
::i. mc.].y .[:.~:x~L~'~. Lo mr: TJ~xl'~k you i'or .teL'tLilg me. r.l.tt ~n.
Ha),of Ohmic.): ~[,e.r~ ILei, r, umbe~' il. I-Iighway 5 Update, _Do'l~.
I],.')rj ;'::];hHt,i I.]',. b];.-'.'t t 'j'r.).l ].()t:$~lig oil COI.LIIC.~.].III,'.~F~ H.Lng. [)J.d yOU. H;~,J'IJ; J~J,~
r)-,,~t.(:, i. he T~e.×'f.
I'!;.', yo~' Chm.{.::] ~
!'io!': /'}:::}~[~c, rt.h': }~(~.C:~,LLk]L: if Lb&' COLJTIC.~_]. WJ. Sha¢l tO r-:ee ~he Planr~ir~g Comfl~sr. cj. on J/~d
,t i~,',I'~..J.C!L!,'.tT c!Ll';?.c[[o[~ ,iLl:;'l: d.s; We (JLcl wJLh 1.:i. quoI', yeLL ~hould d.is(;Lt~a¢
LI~,) w.Li.h a illOL:J. Oll arid ~Jl~ iJ~o'LJ, oll sJ'lol.J].cJ be sent to Lhe Commir.:sion.
i!ay(.::' .r:h~,i.:.,.]_: Yt....,~Ji, Hr::'v.'.: .'_qol'f. of breell kl'!c'cJ:..[llg t.h.Ls cI()HII l:j~.: [tLJ)e. ,~11(t ] think
t,::"'re at that i,a'r"LJc:Lt".a¥ l')onjt[on Fight no~.~ where they know Hhere ~OL[i'IOC~.~S ,l'L
~"-J', :.J,.'tJ.. ¥ !:!~.i. ilk 1!;,~O(),2 :-~qlt,:.~':.: [er:i: .L:s where wr::~l'~ ,~t r.~gJlt l~ow. T. (Ioll't t;Jl]'.llk
!:J,-': plar~ on ~n(~vJ~:g {:,uln ,'.hal p,]'r't. 5. c~].ar position,
f':ol.[liCi.llilall H,'~:~oll: Th~.;l'r.'. mJ. gJ~L be a ~j_tf.l.e d;[$;:[gr'celflerll.
kl,~).'r,',' C:!li,rlj_e].: ~dr':]], :Jte, te yol.~r posJt.i. Oll,
.;:..fr Far,'[~,':,k:~,.-~- ,'.:,'..n ]: uLel) .~rl fo'r' a :~c~C:ol/d?
City Coltr, cil Iteeting - April 13, 1992
Hayer Chmiel: Sure. Being Richard opened this up for just a second.
Councilman Wing: Well maybe it really is appropriate to put that on an agenda
for general discussion.
Mayor Chmiel: Jeff, go ahead.
Jeff Farmakes: My name is Jeff Farmakes and I'm on the Planning Commission.
There's some miscommunication going on here. This first came up on the issue
over revising PUD. The minimum lot sizes and we're trying to come up with a
formu].a that was acceptable. And also an incentive to developers to use the
PUD. And of course the minimum lot size is certainly the major area where
that's cen[ered around. That incentive. It was then brought up as a discussion
as to what do we consider a proper minimum lot size to be and then we sort of,
in the discussion, grouped it as to a regular, normal development in discussion
of what a minimum, proper minimum lot size would be and we were discussing both
at the same time. Then there was a response from the Commission here that ue
should look at just regular minimum lot size for a normal development on a
si)~gle family house. Bring it back as a subject. Now I only have a year on the
Plaything COnlmission but as I understand it from Ladd that this was, Ladd Conrad,
that this was a rather lengthy bit of discussion some time back. If that's the
directive, I think it was getting confused on the issue between the PUD
revisions and a regular single family development. So that issue should be
addressed. Because I think it's being confused perhaps on both by the City
Council and by the Planning Commission.
Mayor Chmiel: 'I think you're probably right but then at least I know where I'm
coming from and I'm no[ speaking completely for the rest of the Council with the
statement that I made. But with that, can we get the update now.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: HIGHWAY 5 UPDATE, CITY MANAGER.
Don Ashworth: Okay. Do you want me to put this on the next agenda?
Councilman Wing: I would request that, thank you.
Don Ashuorth: Highway 5 update. I had hoped that for this meeting we would
have a, couple of months ago this item was brought back to the City Council.
Paul was concerned as to budget and cost associated with bringing in a
consultant. I think the Council was quite concerned in that area. There were
questions as to where we were standing with the project. I think Paul's done a
good job here kind of updating as with some of the meetings we've had with
Crawford, which was an excellent, excellent meeting and ~ think that he accepted
that the University's plan, the corridor study, very openly. We turned around
and then met with some of the District people. They were not as optimistic and
d[rect. We wore kind of pessimistic after that meeting. The short and the long
of it is, and then we had a separate meeting with Barton Aschmann and a firm
called Cam~Fos. By your next meeting we will have back a proposal to take us
through the next step which is the local planning effort to convert what's been
done by the Planning Commission or by the University and to identify differences
between that report and our existing Comprehensive Plan. I think that the costs
will be within the guidelil~es that you've basically stated which I think were
more general. Meaning that's too high. So I'm not quite sure where lower is
39
!':,tii 7 l.i,.[.lik ;,~u. (:.~I~ come [)2.~:!.:: Jr~ ].1, L!!at ,JJ.~.-,2LJ. o[i. :'~I'~c! ~c will outline
i:,roposed ~pr:c.[.-f.[.(: 'i:~¢,sk~; ,.tnd wJ~'..r~ tl~y'Fa proposed 1. o bc cofap].at~t_ Who w~~ WOLt.ld
~e au mer,~ba~rrs or thc t.a~.:k roi-ce and what pub].lc: hearings would probably be
F~:.kt C:our~c~.l. :,¢,::~';' i)~g. i w;~s.: ~'edJ. ly sJmooLJl~g for' th~s one but w~ just got bogged
H,::yo'r Ch~ie]: Ok,?,y. 1'hank yoLt.
/]OLIR¢.i]i.q,'.~.ll ~.'JLIl~}; ~]ue..st.Lon. You're 1. ookj. ng a~ me 1.i. ke I maybe sl~ou].d not.
Cou:~c:il.ma:~ WtJ~g; For a yca~ wa'ge ~.a].kcd aboL',t a La'.'-;k foFcc and l~oth.Lng's
r'.uc,]v::.d :~('i i.n Lj~.is ].a~;~ l[IOOJ~J, ll9 W~..:~utllorizecl a task force sea'rch. I heard
/(;iL; c o ill Hi L: I I'~ :.-i ;~1),'.'~ U L
wondt~rfu]. Lime wo'rk].l~g o1~ Lhe watel' dist. riut. It seem.~ 'to be productive arid
:.~.i_;-:,,?.ri.l'lg wel.l. L, lhel, i, igl'l~, we have a L,.~k fo~'c:e to i. ake o[~ 'i:h.i_s p~ojeot to help
~'J. eer .-~rl drive
,,",,hworLl~: ,';.,_~,'tin 'Lh~; work e]emeuts o'f the task force together with staff
;-',::om,jr.'.~l~!,tL~ol~r.~ ,ia to Ll,e poLe~tLa], m,'~k~~. up of that wi].], bo in Lhis report in 2
rom t od,'~y,
[::~.)ul~cilma,~ Win~.]' okay, tl~ar, k yoL[.
Councilman t4ason moved, Councilman Workman seconded to adjourn the meeting. 611
vo~ed in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 9:55 p.m..
r'rel:,a'r-cd L:,y i'!al~n OI;,l'~e.ii,
4O