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1992 03 23CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING MARCH 23, 1992 Mayor Chmiel called the meeting to order at 7:80 p.m.. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilman Mason, Councilman Workman, and Councilwoman 0imler. Councilman Wing arrived during Consent Agenda item l(b) discussion. STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knutson, Todd Gerhardt, Charles Folch, Todd Hoffman, Scott HaFF, Paul Krauss, Jo Ann 01sen, Sharmin Al-Jaff, and Harold BFose APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the agenda as presented. All voted in favor and the motlon carried. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilwoman Dlmler moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations: e. Resolution ~2-38: Approve Contract Amendment Nos. i and 2 for TH 5 Turn Lane Improvements at Lone Cedar Lane, Project No. 90-g. f. Approve Underground Service Contract, Lake Ann Park, NSP. g. Resolution ~92-39: Approval of Year End Closings and Transfers. h. Approval of Bills. 1. City Council Minutes dated March 9, 1992 · :.~,,,~.~),j £ommni.:s.~ion Minutes dated March 4, 1992 j. ~( ..~,,:io~, 892-40: Approval of Electlon Judges and Establish Rate of Pay. All voted in favor and the motion carried. A. PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT APPROVAL TO SUBDIVIDE 9.99 ACRES INTO I LOT AND 2 OUTLOTS, LOCATED NORTHEAST OF THE INTERSECTION OF LYMAN BOULEVARD AND GREAT PLAINS BLVD., EUGENE OUINN/VANDOREN-HAZARD-STALLINGS. Public Present: Name Address Gene & Therese Quinn Scott Harri Gary Skalberg Russ & Orletta Frederick 532 Lyman Blvd. Van Doren-Hazard-Stallings 510 Lyman Blvd. 540 Lyman Blvd. City Council HeeLing .- Match 23~ .t99~ Name Address Bailey & Mary I_ou Jensel) Diane RJegert Leslie O'Halloran 500 tyman Blvd. 520 tyman Blvd. 550 tyman Blvd. i'layur Chmiel: I'(I like to have Mr. Quinn or his representative come forward. They have a little of co[icerns for clarification and they'd like to bring those up at this particmtlar time. Scott Har'ri." Your Honor, members of the Council. My name is Scott Harri and we ~ppreciaf. e the opportunity and your indulgence for perhaps getting things a 1.i. tt]e bit out of order here. At the Planning Commission meeting 3 weeks ago it was the applicant.'s intention to request a variance on Outlot A and it didn'~ get. included in tile discussion at the 'Lime. Outlot 4 is the southern most piece oF the proposed subdivision of the 8uinn property adjoining the proposed ~uinn Road. 4nd throuuh the conversations that the applicant and myself had with :staff ~1~ putti~g together t.his subdivision that you .see before you this evening, :-tr"rived at a number' of considerations and one of the things is there's an existing 50 foot wide driveway easement that is under the proposed 60 foot ~uinn Road right-.of-way that is proposed to be platted. Outlot A was configured with Lhe City's subdivision ordin~rlce in mind as far as a single family lot ;t'rrangement. When we.- looked at lot arrangement in and around the storm water pond on this sitre, it. bec,~me kind o~ ~.~ 'restriction as far as the depth of the ].ot from ~hat would be a proposed 30 foot setback line. The request that we ~]ould like to ~nake is for a 10 foot variance to the 30 foot setback along ~uinn Road on Outlot 4. The impact to [he City in this case is that visually the Iiouses th~L would be built_ along Ouinn RoCtd would have the same depth or dictai~ce fron~ the edge of the street to the front of the house. There wouldn't be ~ny lessenii~g of the length of the driveway oF the visual distance that the house would be from the edge of the traveled street and what that will a11o~ tl~en i~ for an adequate depth of the backyard for those, if any future housing unJ.[s built between the pond and Ouinn Road. What we're doing right now and in fact the v~riance could not necessarily be shown on the plat. It ~ould run ~ith the Minutes of your act/on this evening and at such time that the 8uinn's came in to develop Outlot 4, that variance, if it ~as deemed reasonable and feasible due to the nature of the housing and other final design criteria on the site could be afforded ~o the Applicant at that time. Mayor Chin)el: Okay, Paul. When you had this before the Commission, as they've indicated, that ~asn't shown a~ that you have that as an Outlot A. Do you have ally concerns with what Mr. Hart) has indicated? Paul Krauss: Well, we have some problem with the idea of pre-granting variances without having lots preBent~ Tt seem8 to bind the actions of a future Council which goes against some basic tenants of how we operate. On the other hand, I understand Gene's concern. They are taking the full. hit if you will for that future road simply because they're the first one in. The driveway'8 on their property right now. We're ¥1o[ sure what the houses are going to look like along that road in [he fu[ure because we're frankly not sure where the road's going to uo. It's 9oing [o have ~o be rebuilt. There is no road there now. It's a dirt driveway, We understand the concern. ~e're not sure excactly how we can deal City Council Meeting - March 23, 1992 with that. That's true, as 3o Ann points out. A variance is only good for a year in any case and it's got to be used by that time and there's no way that this would be used by then. There's no utilities in this area. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I guess that's a good point. Charles, do you have any concerns wlth thls at a117 Charles Folch: I think the only thing, just to point out and you may be aware of this already is the option of reducing the required right-of-way down to 50 feet. At some point in the future that additional 10 feet would have to be acquired and if the road was being constructed before the properties to the east would be subdividing or they may not even subdivide, it would be up to the City to acquire the additional 10 feet from the properties on the east and there would 11kely be a cost associated wlth that. Just as long as you're aware that if we grant the 50 foot right-of-way dedication at some point in time we'll 11kely pay for the rest. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I see this now as a problem basically with it only being good for one year as a variance. It would not be of any value for you to go through that process because there's no servlces available at that slte, nor will be, for some time, and that means sewer and water. And I think too that that probably should be something that would be done at the tlme we go through with that platting of that particular Outlot A. At least that's the way I see it and I'll throw it open to Council as well. Mike. Councilman Mason: Yeah, t, ith knowing that the variance is only going to last a year, it would almost be pointless for us to take action on it. I would hate to have a Council 6-7 years from now look at something we've done and be bound by that anyway. Unfortunately this almost seems fruitless 3ust because anythlng we do now is going to be somewhat irrelevant by the time you get around to developing it. Do you understand what's going on here? $o I guess I'm not quite sure what to do. Councilman Workman: I concur. I don't know that we'd be doing anybody any good really anyway other than to pass on our strong concerns about it. Approving a variance, do we even have the ability to approve a variance? I don't know that we even have a solution. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, I don't see one right now. I really don't. Okay. Councilwoman Bimler: I concur. I don't see that it would do anything... Maybe Roger would have, do you have anything to say? Roger Knutson: Maybe one more complicating factor. Obviously if you were even to conslder lt, it would have to go back through pub11¢ hearing and back through the process and then it would be gone in one year. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, it wouldn't make any sense. Roger Knutson: You'd be doing a lot of work for nothing. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. They would be doing as well. So with that, we can accept the preliminary plat as you provided us and final plat approval to subdivide City Cou~ci.l i4eeti~,g - H,.~.rcl'~ ~3, ~9~~. that with what wa:..~ carried 'through at the P].arlnirlg Commission without that 10 foot varJ. al'~Ce orl outlet A. If you're in agreement with that, I would so move that we accept 1reel l(a). Councilwoman Oimler.~ Second. 14ayor Chmiel moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to approve preliminary and final plat to subdivide g.9g acres into one lot and two outlets located northeast of the intersection of Lyman Blvd. and Great Plains Blvd. without the 10 foot variance on Outlet A. All voted in favor and the motion carried. B. FINAL PLAT APPROVAL., WILLOW RIDGE ADDITION (LUNDGREN/ORTENBLAT/ERSBO). (Councilman Wing arrived to the meeting at this point.) Mayor Chmlel: Charles, could you give a little clarificaLion this please? Char.l. er.s Fei. ch: Thank you Mr. Mayor. If yol.l turn to page 14 in your staff report, I have just two items of clarification with the staff report. On page Id, co,dition mzmber 10. The first sentence relating to the existing hydrants being relocated. That firs't sentence should be eliminated. It was originally pi. aced as a condition with the thought that the entire plat would be constructed ztt one tlme but with the two phased approach thls hydrant won't be needed untll Phase 2. Hayer Chmiel-' I'lrm glad you brought that up because I didn't have page 14 or 15 in my r'eport. Cl'larles Folch-' Oh. Well maybe I'll just read it off. Basically condition 10 shou].d read, the Flre Oepartment must approve street names and a 10 foot clear space ,,ust be provided around hydrants. Additional hydrants ar~ needed at the intersection eL Lake Lucy Road and the proposed publJ, c road. That should be the ,"emaining condit ion. Mayor' Chmiel: ~lright. Charle.~ Folch: The, el', the following p~ge, item lB. Or on page 15, item 20 there w~:s a question by the developer rela~ed to the need for the 30 x 30 utillty easement over the 11ft statlon that ls being located in that area. Unfortunztely the lift s~ation's going to be about 3.5 feet deep and if ue ever h~d to go Jn and repair or reconstruct that lift statlon, even with 1:1 side slopes, you're going to be ~t least 30 feet out in every direction from that lift station so staff feels that that condition ~hould female. Those are the o~]y two points ~ had to make on item l(b). Mayor Chmiel: Very good. With those two items so noted, any discussion? Mike Pflaum: My name is Mike Pflaum. I'm with Lundgren Bros. Construction and I had ~o wait until Charles make his comments before determining whether or not I was going to have to comment on something. I would like to comment on the condi[lon that requires the construction of a small portlon of the future street that wouJ. d be the eastern portion of the site. Citx Council Meeting -- March 23, 1992 Mayor Chmiel: Is it a specific item on here? Charles Folch: If that's referred to the street on the Summit Addition? Mike Pflaum: No. This is the extension of Willow Ridge Drive. Paul Krauss: It's condition 19. Mike Pflaum: Essentially my concern is this. I know such things are given little weight sometimes but this is an extremely expensive project and what we are being asked to do is to construct some street and over 300 feet of storm sewer, four storm sewer structures, to take drainage off of approximately one half of the roadway width of Lake Lucy Drive for a distance of a couple hundred feet to the north. Until such time as we complete the construction of the street, our street internally. And my comment was this. We can accomplish I believe what the city wants to with respect to treating the storm water without constructing all that much storm sewer or street. We can radius the street. We can put in the signage that the Planning Oepartment would like to see indicating that this is going to be a future street. And we can take drainage overland into the NURP pond that is to treat the water before it goes into the wetland at a significant savings. I didn't do, or I didn't have our engineers do a complete take off but they indicated it's going to cost us at least $20,000.00 to put in the watermain stub, storm sewer and the other improvements that are being requested would not accomplish any better what we can do on a temporary basis as I have described. And with that I'd hope that the City Council would, or the engineering department and the planning department and the City Council would modify the particular condition. Mayor Chmiel: Charles. Charles Folch: I guess before staff could give their blessings on an overland drainage, temporary drainage type situation as Mike had mentioned, it is quite distance that the flow would be carrled and if lndeed it ls carried overflow, guess I have some concern about erosion and trying to maintaln a channel such as that and what additional potential erosion and sedlment problems we might have impacting that NURP pond from an overland condition. I would be certainly w1111ng to slt down and hear what thelr thoughts and ideas are but I guess I'm real concerned about approving something like that without taking a closer look at lt. Mayor Chmlel: Z would think that that should probably be between Lundgren and our staff to come up with a conclusion and reach a solution one way or the other as to what the city deems which would be the best way to go. Mike Pflaum: That certainly would be acceptable. I'm sure that we could work something out between us. I do have one other 1rem relatlng to thls. It has, this may seem absurd to the Council but maybe a little 11ght relief is what you need. Mayor Chmiel: We need it. Mike Pflaum: The Fire Marshall has objected to the names of the streets. The name of the subdivision is Willow Ridge. It's not Ortenblat/Ersbo anymore. CJ.~,y Cou~lci]. fleeting -, Hal-ch 23, 1992 It's Willow RJ. dge and the're are two streets within '[he plat. Willow Ridge Drive and Willow Ridge Court. The Fire Marshall is concern~d that Willow Ridge Drive aT~cl Wtllo'r Ridge Court sound too much like WJ. llow Cove and Willow Creek. And w~'d like to have Willow Ridge for stree~ names and feel that it would probably serve benef~,ci~l purposes to t~ave the name of the subdivision and the name of tl~e stt-eet[~ i~ it be snynomous, People would know where they're going. Both from a standpoint of homeow~ers and hopefully realtors but also for public safuky and so forth. With that I'll drop that issue but it is kind of important to us, ~ wou].d~'t be here talking about it if I didn't think that street names are important. Hayer Chmiel: Okay. Thank you. In your packet that would be from Mark Littfin to .'Jo Ann which is a communication dated March i3th. Scott. S~:~tt Ha;-r: Scott Fl~rr, the Public Safety Director. We've discussed the issue of ~ames. We t~ke street names very seriously. There's a number of street names that sound alike in town and I could give a number of examples that ~erious situat.tor, s I~ave arisen because of confusion. We're striving to have names as separate, defineable and different as possible. Certainly be willing to me~;t with Hr. Pflaum and review other possibilities but based on the one set of n,'.~mes proposed, we feel it's important to seek other alternatives. If he'd like to give Mark a (::all or myself a call tomorrow, we'll work on that with him. Player Chmiel: Thank you. Maybe that's something there to that you can have discussion with staff on. How many streets in your development are going to be there? Flow many different names of streets? Nike Pflaul0: Just the two. Mayor Chm.[e].: Just the two. One or tl~e other. All in the same location. Cour, cilman Workman: Mr. Hayer, [his has kind of been an issue for me too. We've used tl,e word Audubon Jn a lot of different areas of town. One on the ~,orth end and the~, tho south and that concerned me. I think Lake Lucy Hills has kited of used that word an awful lot and then Char, hassen Hills Drive North. Chanhassen Hills Drive North. Yeah, that's there. And South and I live in what would amount to be a two street neighborhood and I live on the Court and then t l,ere's a Df.ire. I don't know that ~ have a real serious problem, or somebody would have a problem with that. Usually the Court is the circle inside the loop. But I'm no[ goj. i]g to underestimate Mr. Li[tfin or Hr. Harr's advice. I do have a question as to why this is called Willow Ridge when it's actually in a low area, It's ~ot really ~ ridge. But we do have a problem with fire, safety, uP.'-; and everybody else in [own trying to find roads. Everybody knows where Flam.ingo Orive i.s, But we st.~rt getting them to all sound the same. Counc:ilwoman Oimler: I guess I'd add to that. I live on Kioua Circle and there's a Kiowa Trail. There's a Kiowa Street. There's a Kiowa Court and quite frequently, and they're all in different areas of the city and qulte frequently people that look up our address our down in southern Chanhassen on Kiowa Trall so it does present a problem and I think the safety aspect is much more .important but I mean just for clarity too of where things are in the city. City Council Meeting - March 23, 1992 Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Anyone else have any other comments? I'd like you also to have some additional discussions with staff and to reach some kind of a conclusion for that as well and I appreciate your comments this evening. I'd like to move item l(b). Is there a second? Councilman Workman: Second. Mayor Chmiel: It's been moved and seconded that to have discussions with staff in regard to discussions this evenlng. Mayor Chmiel moved, Councilman Workman seconded to approve the final plat for Willow Ridge Addition as amended on page 14, condition 10 deleting the first sentence and directing staff to meet with the applicant in regard to discussions this evening. All voted in favor and the action carried. C. FINAL PLAT APPROVAL~ SUMMIT AT NEAR MOUNTAIN. Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. Just one quick clarification on page 12 of your staff report. Condition 8 as it relates to the construction of an emergency access. The paragraph should read, it should be changed to read. Instead of the publlc, it should be changed to read, a Class V street shall be extended from the permanent Phase I construction of Ox Bow Bend to the emergency access and then it continues on as stated. Basically what's happening here is, the emergency access from Iroquois to the future Ox Bow Bend uill be paved. The developer has agreed to pave that entrance and the remaining portion, which would be about 250 feet between where Phase I of Iroquois ends, permanent construction to this emergency access, would be constructed ulth Class V to our standards. Basically because the utilities improvements will not be installed at thls point in tlme. Mayor Chmiel: Alright. Thank you. With that clarification is there any other discussion? I would make that motlon for 1rem 1(c). Councilwoman Oimler: Second. Mayor Chmiel moved, Councilwoman Oimler seconded to approve the final plat of Summit at Near Hountain as amended on page 12: 8. A Class V street shall be extended from the permanent Phase I construction of Ox Bow Bend to the emergency access. The emergency access shall be constructed as part of the first phase. All voted in favor and the motion carried. D. APPROVAL OF 1992/93 LIOUOR LICENSE APPLICATIONS. Councilman Workman: Mr. Mayor, I don't have a problem wlth approval of the 1992/93 liquor licenses, although it has brought to my attention the last time we discussed approving a l£quor license, the one at Z and 41, and a comment was ralsed by a Councllmember that we have too many liquor stores and I had noted at the time that well ue only have one liquor store in town but when I kind of assumed that when we say we have too many 11quor stores, it means society and that was a whoZe different other argument. But it did raise the question to me City Council Neeti~,g --I'i,~rch ?_3, J, 99~ as to what perhaps would be too m,~ny or too much liquor stores and in relationship 1. o [h~tt, I guess when we have somebody who is in vJ. olatio~ at a ]icm,~or s[ore ct' serves a mlnor, we do rmot have a violation procedure in place. Al. though we do have one For our cigarette, people who sell cigarettes, we don't have one For liquor. I think cfm that point it would probably be more fair to the people who do hold ]..iquof- 1.i. cense if we dld already have a process. If you recall when the Holiddy and the NGH came in and we really dldn't have a process. We ~ol't oF slapped their hands and said, do,'[ do it again but we really don't have, a p'r'ocedure For how to h~dle it the next tlme it happens. Flrst offense, seceded, third and down the linc. After looking into the qurerstion of what or how man>' liquor stor~s is too many, I found out that titles do it one or two ways. One they restrict a ].Lquor store by you can only have one liquor store within :'~u~:h and such a distance of each other. Llke a tulle and I understand Burnsv].11e cloe~ ]~ that way. ~ don't thlnk that would be real fair in Chanhassen because we're concentrating o~r business community down here but they do, armd I belleve Bloomington does it, most conmmunities do it. They restrict it by population. As .in 1 per 5,000 or 6,000 or 2,000 or whatever. And so I don't mean to hold thins mzp tonight. It was just oomething that I thought I'd bring up at this time tha~ p~rhaps Clty Council shou]d be looklng at before we experience more fetal1 and residential growth. We should maybe we asking ourselves these questions. W.i. th Ihs ~sterisk attached tha~ I'm not in the habit of 11klng to restrlct businesses but I think if you look ~.~t the O~{ or so cities in the State, we've got.to be of ~ very small ,minority that does not have some sort of a control at a].l. Does that make sense? Mayor Chmlel: Yes. No, and I think we do need to look at that. I think competition ls good. You just can't have one liquor store within a community and not have a competition. Maybe ~lo~e or whatever. And we do have thls basically concentrated within the downtown area as what we call downtown Chanhassen. And even though we do have one out on ~1 and 7, but nonetheless I think we have to b~.,. caref~l on I'1o~ w~.; restrict it and not having that klnd of competition within. And I f. hink ~t:s good From that standpoint because I've had some things commended f.o me already about that issue and saying that maybe I can go somewhere else and buy it a lot less. So those are the t hlngs I t hlnk we have to really look at. Commnci3.ma, Workman: I think if we can handle this issue, then we can get to tl~o.~;e corn, people who sell ~;orn. Because I think that's where a lot of the alc. ohol starts. But I brlng it up only because il astonishes me that, pattie, varig whol~ ~n on o1' off sale does serve a mlnor, we don't really have a pro<:edure and it's a 11ttle late once they do have a violation for us to klnd of c:reate that proc~,s~. Likewise if, and I'm going to hopefully get some c:O,llnentary from Roger on how other clties are doing lt. ~iaybe I mlsspoke but on~:e we have three moro applications for liquor licenses, where's our- ceiling o;- should we. not have a c:elllng? When ? and 4t came lr, and 1[ was a gentleman who was a.l. 1 prepared to be in business and if we dldn't really approve it that night he w~s going to maybe have some difficulty starting up his business, I was very sympathetic to him. The Council said we maybe have too many liquor stores. Th~t.':-:~ a philosophic, al questlon but I'd just as soon take care of that questlon wh~:n the heat's off. Not when somebody's comlng in to take care of or wants to do I~]slness and then we direc, t him somewhere else. cottnc.[lman Wing: I'm glad to hear Tom bring that up. I'm not concerned about City Council Meeting - March 23, 1992 we have too many or too few or where they are. I just have not felt that we have in our own mlnd determined what we want. Where we mant them. If me want them and wlth some of the ramifications, lt's just 1tonic that I have on the city Manager's desk a white paper I wrote which defines liquor licenses. State law. What we have. What we're allowed to do. What our options are. What other citles are doing. I kind of held it because I didn't know what the right tlme was but wlth your permission Tom or your cooperation I'd just 11ke to submit that to the next packet just for discussion. Because it is a philosophical questlon and I agree wlth you Tom. Z don't know where we want to go with it but I'd 11ke to sit here while the heat's off and Z'd support your questions and if it wouldn't be inappropriate, I'd 11ke to present that paper at the next meeting. Councilman Workman: Can I have Roger maybe input on where other cities sit? Do other cities have, how many liquor licenses does Chanhassen have? Should we have? Roger Knutson: Z've never done a survey...not aware of anyone havlng limitation on the number other than the fact that you have... Councilman Workman: What the State Statutes are you mean? Roger Knutson: Yeah. Councilman Wing: State Statutue only regulates taverns. On sale. That's the only restriction. Roger Knutson: Unless you're a city of the first class. Different rules. Ha/or Chmiel: Right. And also they dictate as to the amounts that you can charge for those licenses as well. Councilwoman Dimler: I guess I had, the on sale I don't have a problem with restricting but the off sale ls what I'm questioning whether we should. And also I do agree that we need to put a procedure into place for violations. That should have been done. Councilman Wlng: I thlnk it's interesting that we restrict the age for cigarettes but under State law you can bartend and sell liquor at 18 and that doesn't conducive with the attltude of thls Councll in the past. I thlnk that needs to be looked at and addressed. Councilman Workman: Anyway, I'd move approval of the 1992/93 11quor license as recommended by staff. Councilwoman Dlmler: Second. Councilman Workman moved, Councilwoman Oimler seconded to approve the 1992/~3 liquor l~cense renewals contingent upon receipt of all bonds and 11quor liability insurance certificates. All voted in favor and the motion carried. VISITOR PRESENTATION) None. [.'..iLl' CoiLllcll Ifie:.'.-Li~19 l'l~rc.:h 2.3, 1992 E~GLE SCOUT PROJECT. COMPOST DEMONSTRATZON SZT~.__ERIC PODEVELS. :'[]-J..c Po~level.~;: I did a quick drawing...of a possible site and possible d.i. nlei]sio~s, The ~ite J.s bM the clock and the big pine tree ~n downtown, rlght ,'~cros~ from the C:l'~anh~sse~ Dinne~' Theatre. This was our second priority choice. Yhe r:ir~.~t u~s so~,euhere i~'~ tt~e Cl~anhasse~] Elementary site. Flrst Jet's just t;~lk about you'd have ~ path from each side of the sideua].k and inside the site wi.l] be two different types of bins. The first bin shows the different steps ;~nd s~ges J.~ compost~i~9 ~nd Ll']e ~second o~e is just a small backyard one tha~ ~.h~ pub.]~c cai~ use and maJl]~y this is to teach the public on how composting is ;~ff~::'t. ed by the environment ~d how it can save the envi~'onment. H~inly just ]",~vc 9;[t-cler,~: ;~roLtnd it ,~nd a trail to make a good image. Here's an example of ui'~.~( onr> look:; 1.'ikon. Here':¢ the inform~Lion stand that teJ. J.s abo~t tempesting ..~,r~cl tl]el~ t. hey have tempered borders that ~Je want to do. And the~ ue have a u~odch¢.p I.~atl] .~r~d Lherl severa] compos[ir~9 bins he~'e, here ma~.]~].y what ~ need to li, ake this site on this sheeL but mainly ue have to come up u.f.~h the ]ocLtLi,)rl of the site. First tile elementary school si. to .tss consldered because of the loc:at,of, for students to, knowledge of the site there. So they c.:~n observe du~'inu their science classes. But the bad part is that there wasn't an actual spot il, the e].el, entary school property that was the right size or i1~ a p~'oper position, that would be ~z~]y va].ue. So Lhe second ide;~ was by the big pine tr,~e a]'~d clock ac~'oss from the Din]~ef' Theatre and if that didn't work, the third ~J. Le would be somet,]ll:~re on the City rial1 property o~' somewhere in this area. So ,];-t~.nly Z j~sf r~eed t.o 9et a fi. ua,. decJsj, on on the actual site and then ~ can start working o~ more details... H~;',~'r' Chrome1' ~cry 9ood F~'ic. COUT~cil? I'll start on this end. Colznc~.lwom~l, Di,~ler-: l'h,.~l~k you. I r_llillk it's ,.~ great idea. I think you've dol,e. ~ ~erri F';.c job w~'r.h ii,is. (~.'-~ fa'r as si. les go, it sounds to me like the e.t~.mentar'y schoo] site J.~-~ not: go.Lng Lo work. Z'm wonrlef'i~]g about, has City Hall p'r'operty got any J. deas where this might go? 2o ~nn, do you want to answer that? 3o it~r,n O]..';en: The a~'e,~ that we were hooking at was to the west of the CJ. ty Hall building ar, d ae.;.Lj.,, you 9et into some slopes there. ~nd then also we discussed f,trtl',~;r bel,.f.r,d CiLy I-I~,J. 1, kind or back behind some of the ba].l¢ields. But we d¢.rJn't knok, if that was ]'eal acceptable for people who were just walking by to 9o I:o it. So u~; didn-'L pLtI-SUO .it ally furLher than that. Co~tncilwoman Dimler: ~'m assumi~9 that this is for educational purposes and people are supposed to come and browse ,.~round and so Z'ln thinking by a clock is prob~tbly better tha]~ t.h~tL site by the ti'ee there. Z'm wondering how many people wou].d wa.].k J.n Ll'lr~.re arid acLttAlly go see the site. ..~o Ann 0].~.'-I~: ~c .we're, also going to make it not just a con, posting area. But we ,'~.1:'-;o couJ. d dc) some 1,~n(Jsc~tping w.[th the benches ~tnd S~[Ltff ,~d then ~].so h~e it ,;~; ,t n:~cc ].~.tt],: ~r'(,a, s~tt~ng area 1n the downtown area, if ue do use 1t at I. lli::; ~:i'Le ~ ;[1: ~oLt]~l ~,ake it aesthetically pleasing and use a lo( of ]andscapJ. ng. So w~, (tJ.d consider park areas. Haybe Todd car, even get into this sorer; more bu.[ ue were uori'1ed more about vandalism and the (bought that aight r~ol. be used as much. ~nd just to fJnd a si. to in one of the parks, ue didn't i-3,!].Jy COlOe Ltp with 811y good ideas. But J.L was d~fflcu~t finding a site. 10 City Council Meeting - March 23, 1992 Council. woman Dimler: Okay, and heavy useage this would not get? 3o Ann Olsen: In a park? Councilwoman Dimler: Yeah. I mean do you anticipate a lot of heavy useage of this? It's just a project. The public is going to come and use it? Jo Ann Olsen: Yeah. It's been, that...has been very successful. There has been high useage of it. I can't tell you how much useage you will get. It would get more in the park area versus this location. Mayor Chmiel: I look at the park area and I think because of the useage that is there, it mlght have more exposure in that particular locatlon than it would down by the clock tower. Jo Ann Olsen: Which park location are you? Mayor Chmiel: Just in back of City Hall as you're talking or to the side. Because of the ballflelds that we have and the klds playlng ball. I thlnk if there could be some kind of an educational portion, at the time maybe one of the games are done or prlor to the games, it might promote more of this withln each of the residential homes as well. Jo Ann Olsen: We can look at that closer. Don or Todd might have some questions. CounciJ. man Mason: The thing, I mean I know with bringing my daughter up for t-ball last year, boy there's a lot of traffic up around there. Certainly a lot more than there are by the pine tree. Councilwoman Oimler: No, I'm in favor of the City Hall site if that's feasible. We can look at something like that. Councilman Mason: So what we need to do tonight essentially is, I don't know. Do we need to plck a slte tonight or do we need to glve the project go ahead here? Mayor Chmiel: I think he's looking for a project site as well aren't you Erlc? Eric Podevels: Yes... Councilwoman Dimler: You've got approval. I think it's a great idea. Councilman Mason: Yeah, yeah. Councilman Workman: Is this intended to be a permanent site? Eric Podevels: Yes...permanent and after I... Councilman Workman: Is Jo Ann committed to doing that? Councilman Mason: I believe Mr. Gerhardt and his flower association probably. 11 Ci. ty Cour,cil Meet i. ng .-M,'trcl; 23, .1.~)92 Comtncilman Workman: I too think it's a good idea and thank you for offering to do [hat. My concerll is, if this .i.s going to be permanent and it's going to go oil [hat site, uha[ might we have in several years and would the Medical ~rts buil.¢lir, g maybe have a col~cern of- have [hey been contacted? But other thai] t l~at:, ~'m sure people would driving by there every day are saying what is that and they migl~t go find ont. But that's my only concern about this site. There i.s ]e.o,s foot traffic here. ~ lot of motor vehicles bu[ very few people who 1"8,:t]ly ~tf;':, leSS people than would be up right behind City Hall. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, because that's recreational time and you're not in as much oF a I',~.~rry 90J. l~g to of fro, whatever. And this way, up at the site by City Hal. l, I think you'd have a little better exposure. Councilman Hason: ~nd we might have a little more control just in proximity [hat way too. In terms of vandalism. .7o Ar, i, Olsen: And it's still close to the school which was one of the things that the Recycling Committee was really pushing for. CounciJman Workman: We would probably have to make a firm commitment to move it wl,en and if the park around the City Hall is expanded. H~.tyor ChlnieZ: Right. That's quite a few years down the road. [:ounci]marl Workman: Invite Eric and his dad back and his grandkids. But no, hat's ail 7. have. Mayor ¢.:hmiel: Richard. £ouncilman Wing: T'm not real concerned about the permanence. I think the p]'oje~:t for now is good. I'm interested in the educational and the Jl~formatlona]. aspects of it and clearly T thlnk it should be as closely related to the sCl'lOC1 a~ possZble, and also to City Hall. Hike brought up the issue of control., supervision. I think we sort of need it close to Scott Herr. So I f. hink thJs is ~ good project and anything the Eagle Scout, anybody that reaches the stage of Eagle Scout ~ support automatically. Z don't care what the project .is. And Eric IjLts[ want to say that as a 47 veal' old that has to publicly speak, ~ wish z had your poise. That was a very nice presentation. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Very good. I think that this speaks well for your presentation and we thank you For coming in and can I have a motlon to accept Erlc's project. Councilman Workman: So moved. Council man Mason: Second. Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the Eagle Scout Pro3oct presented by Eric Pode~els for a Compost Demonstration Site. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Councilman Wot'keen: Mr. Hayer, I might add that. Councilman Ma,:on'. Is this going to be a Boy Scout story? 12 City Council Meeting - March 23, 1992 Councilman Workman: Yes. I might add that I've been beating our Park Director, Todd to get a botchy ball court built and I think I've found the location and I think I've found the Troop that will help me with some supervision from them for me, put this together. I have contacted the City of Roseville who has constructed some and they're going to send me some plans and specifications and it might be another project that ue can get together on and then I'll get a badge too which I never got. I'm going to have to do this on my DUn with the Boy Scouts, I can tell so. I'll be in touch with you. UPDATE ON SOUTHWEST METRO TRANSIT, DIANE HARBERTS. Diane Harberts: I'm just passing out some charts that we'll make reference to. I want to first apologize for not being able to attend the meeting last time. There was a decision made on Friday, the Friday before the Chanhassen City- Council meeting to send a representative out to Washington D.C. to talk about transit and I was appointed so I appreciate the opportunity to come back tonight. Basically the purpose tonight is just to give you a brief overview of the activities of Southwest Metro. Kind of the perspective of where we've been. Where we're going. Maybe just to give you a little bit of background. In 1982 the legislature through a vision created-special legislation that enabled suburban communities to manage their Dun transit system. So the tax dollars that are generated in the suburban areas will be managed both in funding and in planning to support their Dun services. In 1986 Southwest Metro Joint Powers Agreement between Eden Prairie, Chaska and Chanhassen took on that endeavor. In December of 1991 with some of the information you've seen through your packets through your local newspapers that we celebrated our 5 years of service. I think just making reference to the chart that we passed out. With Southwest Metro you can see the, where our ridership has gone. One of my objectives for 1992 isn't so much of putting marketing dollars out there to buiid awareness but more so along the lir~es of creating efficiency. That's one of our overall goals for 1992 is to, we're undertaking a comprehensive transit study. Reviewing our services during the past $ years and hopefully formulating long term strategies. Where our services. How they should be developed. What the needs are given the funding level that ue have and project to have in the future. I think some of the major accomplishments that we've seen, especially in 1991 as well as 1992 is some changes in policies, in regional policy that have really made the difference for the future of Southwest Metro. I think with the representation by Councilwoman Dimler on the local officials committee as well as Councilman Workman on the Regional Transit Board, and I know with some good words from the Mayor and City Manager, Don Ashuorth, I think it's those efforts that in a sense have come to the success of Southwest Metro. I think the chart speaks for itself in terms of ridership. Some of the other projects that we're undertaking for i992, we're really focusing more on what's going on at home. What we should be doing at home. Working with, I've been in contact briefly with Ms. Colby, the Chanhassen Senior Coordinator. Some of the concerns about evening service. I can't promise yet but I think there's a good opportunity for some evening service towards the end of May. In working with community organizations from the Chaska Community Center, we've had some success based on an idea that City Manager Ashworth had suggested last summer and with the success we had on that, on the small test basis, we're going to expand that even more so. I think what that's going to do is enabIe more kids this summer to access the service in going to the swimming pool at the Chaska Community Center. I think on a more regional basis, we've had some very, very tremendous success in being recognized 13 city ¢~ounc.i. 1 M.~cl, jl'~9 --I'laf-cl~ ?3, 1992 a.~; a co,,por, el~t. of [ransit ii, [he region. I think with, as I mentioned earlier, with the representatiol~ w~; I~ave fr'om o,zt- elected offic.[als, it's really been s{gnJficant in the future for Southwest Metro. You're probably aware of some of ~l~n consl, r[tction I,rojects in the Chanhasser, area. Be're looking to purchase a piece of property on the corner of Dell Poad and Tt-I 5. Very instrumental in t~rms of the efficiency as well as the amo~znt of service that we will be able to put through Chanhassen as well as for the entire system as well. I guess based or, that, the purpose was jus~ to really give you a, overview of the success. I thJ. i~k success can be measured in different ways. If you're a rider, Jt c4':¢taJ.~J.y the inc:f'ease in the availability of service. I think from a~, elected official's pos~tJ, on, you know success is measured by the ability to serve the needs of yOUF community and I think Southwest Metro has been able to help you mee[ that. goal. I'd like to just open it up for comments or questions at this point. Mayor Chmiel: Does anyone have any questions? Councilwoman Oimler: Yes. Mr. Mayor I just wanted to say that I was part of f.l,~.~ g'r'ottp that hir'ed Oiane and we ar'e certainly proud of the job that she has dc, ne and I can assu'ro all Chanhassen residents lhat they're getting the most s~;'r'vic:c ou[ o'[ t;very dollar that we spend on transit. Thank you Diane. Oi;tne I-larb~;i-ts: Tl~ank you. £oul~cilman Mason: I'd just like to make a quick comment as being a new member of Sottthwest Metro T'~'ansit. I've been nothing but impressed with what I've seen so far and Z hope that our 6ity and Southwest Metro can continue to work togeth~;r to make transportation more of a~l J. ssue at that level. C..o~ncilman Workman: Well I could go on and on and on here like I have with just about ~¢verything else tonight bt~t I wouldn't want to miss the opportunity to say pub.licly that Southwest Metro under Diane Harberts and Mayor Roepke and Ursula and Mike and everybody has done things that I don't think anybody really in the 1-ool, ,'eal].y understands. The transit, and I said it before, is a rather mundane (opi. c. It's rather boring and can be rather tedious but it's highly political, be.lie~,e it or not and it can be very, very complex and to have somebody like Diane who can b'ril~g me, a rather new Regional Yransit Board member and with my thick headedness and she can bring me up to suoh a level of proficiency on tran'~4it, speaks veery l,~el.1, of her abilities but it's been, there have been what ~c would probably cor, sidc,.r major changes in relation. The region in relatiol~sl~ip t.o how OPT OUT communities operating hundreds of thousands of dollars of potential dollars coming back to us that should have been there all along. It's really b~;en an .~nteresting learning process for me and it's e;<c:.{'l, in9 to be. a part of some of those changes which, call Diane tomorrow and a:---k her what those are but it just shows you that by staying tough and working hard, which Diane has done to get this accomplished. She truly is a transit nerd as I hav~;... Mayor' Chmiel: lhank you. Richard, do you have anything to say? Councilman Wing: No. 14 City Council Meeting - March 23, 1992 Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I'd like to thank you for coming in and updating us. As I have heard before and I intend to hear for a long time, you're doing a great job. Continue it and let us provide the transportation needs of our community and our citizens to a very, what can I say, anything more than what you've done. Diane Harberts: Well I think I've got the easy part of it. I can stand up here and in a sense take all the positive remarks and I certainly appreciate it but I think a lot of it too, some of the other unsung heros. Working with Todd. Working with Paul and Sharmin. It's real easy for me to work with them as resource and I think it's that partnership between all of the three cities that has really led to the success so I'd also like to just offer my comments of appreciation too for the continuing work that I get from all of your staff. And I know Todd is busily putting together an assessment figure for me. So it is very exciting to see the changes and I think bottom line here is that our purpose is to provide that transit service, that access and I know with the seniors in Chanhassen, they've expressed many remarks and we do have plans and I do expect to see some of those additional needs met so I appreciate the opportunity to come before you this evening and I'm off to another meeting. Thank you, Mayor Chmiel: Good. Keep rolling along. Councilwoman Oimler: Thank you. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDER ALLOCATION OF YEAR XVIII FUNDS FOR THE URBAN HENNEPIN COUNTY COHHUNITY DEUELOPHENT BLOCK GRANT PROGRAH. Public Present: Name Address 8eh Withhart Esther Sletter Senior Community Services South Shore Senior Center Mayor Chmiel: This is a public hearing and I'd like to open the public hearing at this tlme. Is there anyone wlshing? Paul, why don't you give us a little brlef synopsis? We've gone through this year after year after year and take it from there. Paul Krauss: From what we've been hearing, I hope we can continue to do this year after year. We go through this process every year on an annual basis to distribute the funds that are allocated to us. This was brought before the Senior Commission for their recommendation since a lot of what we do is senior related these days. Basically we're proposing that $4,000.00 be allocated to South Shore Senior Center. That's funding at about 50A of the level that we had in the past. Recognizing the fact that hopefully in the next item we'll have a senlor center under construction shortly and that we need to focus some of that towards home but we didn't want to leave them in the lurch. A lot of our residents continue to use South Shore. We do use some of those funds for the Chanhassen Senior Coordinator, Judy Colby who has worked superbly for us. Got generating a lot of interest. We hired her through Senior Community Services and Ben Withhart, the Director of Senior Community Servlces ls here today. Basically we get Judy for 12 hours a week. We're proposing to continue that 15 City Col.ti-tcil. H~ee~..Lr~g -. Har'ch 23, .l~g;:' leYe] of fu],cling. B~.'~m~cally Jt jus~ inc]ude.'~ a 4~ escalator for i~]flation. The J{.O H [;. program Js ;.t real excit.Ln9 pr-ograln for us. If helps Sol/lots to stay tl~,;Jr ot,~r~ I~omes. Z't's a cf'more service. Zt's managed through Senior Community S,ervLcc~s. bJe'v~e only had this up For 6 to 8 months and to date it really hasn't b¢;en Ltsed ex(ensJ, vely and basically what we'd like to do is give thls a 6 month [m'.[a]. because k,e ttndersta~ld sprir, g .(s the intensikPe season for this. We ¢.d,)cr[]~,¢r~d ]t ~s ~el]. as ~e're going [o be so I'd like to give it that run and s~-~e I'~o~ ~e're doing. If ttseago doesn't expand ~hat I'd like to do is contract ~iLh thei, for ct 6 mon[h basis. If useage doesn't expar~d by that time, I'd like ((, uJork ~ith tt,=e senior commission to look at possiblF reallocating those funds t.o ,~l~othef' pf'ogra~ ~here theF ~,~ght be used more extensively but ~e do think .[t's ~Jorth tl-Jr:~ fry. It's ~n excel].en[ program. Sojourn ~dult Baycare program, .]as'[ year ~e started fuhdi~g them. It ~as a real nominal amount. Something like $3,000.00 Lo make physical changes to the building that theF ~ere 2n and h¢¢].p out the.ir program. TheF asked for a fairly nominal amount, $2,200.00 this y~¢.tr fei' some prog~',~m relaLed activities ~hich seems perfectlF fine ~ith us. Thc ].~st thing is, ~ell L~o things. Senior housing feasibilitF studF. This :;um,¢thin9 thaL ~¢ pLL[ off las'[ Fear because ~e '[ook the moneF and ~e spent it on a s~lJ]o~-' center ~Lself. ~; real~F ,ced to have ~ ].~:~gitimate document that tells ,(~ exactly, first of all [s it feasible. Is there 8 ~eed [of' fl? If there is, ~ha[ should the units renL for? Ho~ bi9 should theF be? ~here should this be ].r,(,'~i. ed? ~hat J;.Lnd of facl].ity? ~ll [hose k~nds o'¢ things Fou need to get handle on befor~ Fou spewed a~or~ey o, doing anything. The last thing is...makii'~g [ac.i].LLjcs :~L Lake ~lnll more handicapped accessible. Th,~t's a cost that cities are going to have to t~ke out of ouT' pockets if ~e don't use block grant because ~l'~cler [J~(~ ~m~r[cans Oisabi.l. iLy ~ct, upu have to make all of our facilities ad,~ptab.le. ~e've been doif~g Lhis over' the years and it's reallF bee~ a good pl-ogr~.m for us. ~J~¢ ~ere able to build the totter ~t the grad~ school att hand.[capped acn~¢ssible. Really beautiful facilitF, in large part ~ith block qr'ant ,~i'ld some donat. Lons that Todd 14offman ~8s ~,bl~.; to secure. So ~ith ~¢'re recommending that yot~ approve this package of improvements tonight. ~ant [o thro~ ~ note of (;aution in here. ~e received some notice from J.leT~ep[~, County, of [rom the Feds via tle~nepin CountF that the ~ashi~gton office of tltlD ~a~'~[s to boullce 6hanhassen ottt of the entitlement progf'am. The f-e~;on j~e'f'e able to be .i.n this program is through some real innovative ;[r~t¢:rpr~tat~.on or rules I. hat ~e o~ Lo o~r City Ha~ager and LarrF Blacksted of ~cn]~;:,pin ¢:o~nty. ~pparentlF the federal regulations saF specifically that a comm~nitF h~s to have af'ea~ il~ the er, tltlement countF, ~hich ~e do. But from [i~e to lime '[heF also interpret [t to mean Fou have to have bodies in the CounT. F, ~hicl, ~o don't b~caus~¢ the three ho~ses that eere there ~e tore do~n. ~.]8]I ~e'ue gotten notice from the Feds that they ~ant us oLtt of the program this Fear and rlennr~pin Cou~JtF believes Lh~t they don't. I mean ~e're entitled to be ~.n the program for another 2 years at a~F rate. ~e'd like to keep a perBanen'( Fool ir, tl~ door a~d ~e're goi~g Lo be meetii]g ~l[h Larry Blacksted and h2s :PLaT'f, Don and I next ~eek. I think ~hat's go].l~g to have to co~e out of this is t~e're going to have to contact ouT- congressional delegation and the State oer~aters ~nLJ ]f an~bodF ~orked on 5ack Kemp's campaign it ~ould be useful b~.:cau~e he'n the head of Lllat organization. BLt[ ~e're going to kno~ more ~Jl:,[ ,,ext ~eek of 'L~o but for tl~e interim ~e're [n [he program and these fur,ds ~;hou.tc~ I]ecome auaJ. table in 3un~-: and ~e are recommending that Fou approve the 16 City Council Heating - March 23, 1992 Mayor ChmieI: Is there anyone wishing to address this issue at this time? This is a pubIic hearing. This is a chance to state your opinion. Councilman Workman: I move to close the public hearing. Councilwoman Dimler: Second. Councilman Workman moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed. Mayor Chmiel: Discussion. I'll start on your end Michael. Councilman Mason: My only concern, and I did read through the Minutes too. The Senlor Commission, ls the 50~ reduction for South Shore. Now you talked wlth them before about it right, so this isn't catching them off guard? Paul Krauss: No it isn't. In fact Ben Withhart is here tonight and can touch on that. We started talking to South Shore about this when doing a senior center here was a kernel of an ldea. And what we've laid on the table all along is that we will not abandon South Shore. We will do what we can to continue to support them but recognizing that our support has to be diminished by some amount and we worked, I worked with Ron Block, their financial manager. I don't know hls exactly tltle, 6 to 8 months ago, whenever it was, when he was dolng his budget so we kind of agreed on a figure that was equitable. So yeah. Councilman Workman: Very well said by Mr. Mason. Councilman Wing: I think Paul Krauss did an equally good job. I'm ready to ~econd whoever wants to make a motion. Councilwoman Oimler: Well let me just say, I agree with what you proposed here. I just always get distressed when I see so much going for a housing feasibility study rather than going to the programs. I understand why we have to do that but agaln that ls an area of concern to me. And when we were at the ceremonies for the opening of Market Square, in the evening I saw that there's already a senlor housing project proposed for the Schlenk site so I was wondering what feasibility study they used to put it on that site. Paul Krauss: I think they used a pen. Councilwoman Oimler: Okay. So we still need a study is what you're saying? Paul Krauss: Yeah, I mean that's a site that sort of fell out that it lends itself to it but we don't really know if that's the appropriate place. Or if lt's appropriate to even do the project in the flrst place. Councilwoman Oimler: Okay, thanks. Mayor Chmiel: I assume, even with Judy doing her, very ably f1111ng this role in assisting the seniors, I hope that they still are having their input into anythlng that they'd 11ke to do as well and to keep themselves golng. Keep 17 Council He~;t.f_n9 Ha~'c:h 23, 1992_ themselves busy and I'd like to see [hat col~tinued in that particular fashion as P~ul Krauss: Mr. Idayor, along those lines. We have advertisements out for the :;eniof center advJ. sory group. Hopefully we'l~ get enough names to bring back to yOU. Mayor Chmiol: Okay~ good. Can I havre a motion? (:ot~,~c:.i.].man Workman~ So moved. Councilwoman Dimler: ReeoIut~o. ~92--41: Councilman ~orkman moved, Cou.c~I~oman D~mier eeconded to approve the Year XVIII Community DeveIopment Block Grant f~nd~.g as follo~e: South Shore Seniow Center $ 4,000 chanhaesen Senior Coordinator thru Senior Community Service8 $ 8,736 I.IOI'IE PFogral, thru Sen.tot Community Services $ 5,830 Sojourn Rdul~ ~ayca~'e Program $ ~,700 Lake ~nn Park Fac~l~t~ee ~ 8,000 Senior Houeing Feasibility .Study TOTAL $40,~44 6~1 voted in favor and the motion carried. Counc~iman Maeon: ca~ ~ just make a comment here? ~th Councilman ~orkman and COUllOii~o~all D.tm]er coon to be leaving us, I think they need to ~1o~ the seconding pace down a I.tt~ie bit to give counciiman ~ng and myself a chance to ge'I the feei fo~' Councilwoman []imler: We want to get out of here. AWARD OF BIDS: SENIOR CENTER REMODELING PRO3ECT. Public Present: Name Address Def'L I'iagtund Bern,ice Bil,1 ison .'lane Kubitz Betty Bragg Bar'ba'r'a Montgomery Judy Colby EOS Architectul'e Chanhassen Senior Commission Chanhassen Senior Commission Chanhassen Senlor Commission Chanhassen Senior Commission SenJ. or Center Program Coordinator Paul Krauss" Mr. Mayo~', I know you and Tom heard t hls spiel last week so. IJayor Chmiel: I just like :seeing all the money we saved Paul. That's great. 18 City Council Meeting - March 23, 1992 Paul Krauss: We promised you we would use a sharp pencil on this one and hopefully we fulfilled the goal. The orlginal cost estimates for this center, when we flrst had an architect work with us on this, were something on the order of $175,000.00. When we brought in EOS, who's the second architectural firm to work on it, they initially estimated about $170,000.00. Now that included some money set aside for furnishings but a big chunk of that, most of that was construction. They estimated that the construction part of it itself was going to be around $150,000.00 and that's what we came to you with when we went out for the bld approval. We indicated though that we hoped that the bid climate would be a pretty good one and it turned out it was a real good one. We got the low bldder lsa group called United Contracting and we have some information that 8eft Haglund, our architect got from them. They're a new firm but the princples lnvolved in the firm have a lot of experience and they can obtain bonding and we feel pretty comfortable with them. Their bid was for $134,000.00 and we were able to knock out one of the alternatives for shelving which basically lowered it down to $132,200.00 which seemed to be a pretty dandy bld and we're recommending that you go with that. Mayor Chmiel: Sounds good to me. I think totally as I looked at that, roughly from where we originally started to where we're at rlght now, st111 getting everything that we wanted, we're saving roughly about $42,800.00. I love it. Any other discussion? If not, I'd 11kw a motlon. Councilman Mason: So moved. Councilwoman Dimler: Second. Mayor Chmiel: So moved that the City Council select United Contracting to construct the senlor center contract amount of $132,200.00. Resolution ~92-42: Councilman Hason moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to approve United Contracting to construct the Chanhassen Senior Center for a total contract amount of $132,200.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried. AWARD OF BIDS: PUBLIC WORKS AND PUBLIC SAFETY EOUIPHENT AND VEHICLES. Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. Harold Brose, the Public Works Shop Foreman has spent a lot of time and effort puttlng these bids and going through the opening process and Harold is here tonight to give you a brief synopsls of the blddlng results. Mayor Chmiel: Good. One of the things that I think that we will be going through is a readvertlslng on the sweeper? Charles Folch: That's correct. Yeah, Harold will explain that a little bit. Mayor Chmlel: Very good. Harold. Harold Brose: Okay, as indicated on my report here, everything came in under budget except the street sweeper .... call for 2 year warranty. The low bidder, which did not have it, would take like I was indicating, about $3,500.00 off of it. The high bid would take up to $7,000.00 off so we really had to throw it out, rebid it and hopefully come in maybe within $2,000.00 of budget. All this 19 C.[~.>, Col~nC;l iter~t£~g M,.~rch 23, 1992 othr;r equip,l~:nt 1o maybe $4,000.00 under .-;o we should be able to get all of it un(ler I'~ltdge. t J f .I rebid the sweeper. Does a,yone have ally questions? Ursula. Counci].WOl, an Bilrllef': Yes, I jus( want to say I think you did a wonderful job on · ;.he ones that Z cl~r;c:ked out. They came in really low. But I dLd have a question on the [wo way radios. .ts that pt'ice installed and include the ~ni. enna? Harold 8rose: It includes the antenna but Ne install them at the shop. Councilwoma~ Oimler= You do install them in the shop? That was the only one I t. ho~tght might be a little bit high. Itai-old BFose: It's like a state bid type price. That's why two Motorola, we keep [he radios the same and they discount like 25~ to 30~ just automatic on govei-llmei~t bid price. Coltr,ciJ. wom,'-tn Dimler: Okay, [hey're kind of the state-of-the-art radio system ~. hough r~ght? Harold FCrose: Oasically right. I'iayor Chmiel: Any o[he'r questions? COLtl~oj. llfl,'.~l~ Mason= What's the [fade off 'for knocking off a year on the warranty there? T. mean there's $3,.500.00 but ~re we going to end up regretting that in f. he 13th month? Harold Brose: Okay, like my experience of 18 years of being around, we've never had anything like that come up. Like a $3,000.00 figure. So it could happen right. Another thln9 that they both offered and I'm going to write a new spec, which )' did. They will star~, the warranty when we deliver. Like say it's July and then I notify the factory and dealer like October we stop sweeping so 'then they'll s[op the warranty then. We start say in March-~pril of ~93. They'll con[J, nue J.t. We'll 9et like a season and a half, almost 2 seasons warranty so that also is going to help. Mayor Chmiel: Good. Co~l~cilman Workman: I would move approval. Councilwomar, Dimler= Second. Resolution ~92-43: Councilman Workman moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to award the bids for the Public Works and Public Safety Equipment and Vehicles as follows, except for the Street Sweeper which will be re-bid: LOW BIDDER VEHICLE/EQUIPMENT BID AMOUNT l..~ng Lake Ford Tractor, CTI Model 80, Front End I.oader Forks $1,590. 2O City Council Meeting - March 23, 1992 LOW BIDDER Carlson Tractor and Equip. Boyer Ford Trucks (State Bid) Midland Equipment Co. Crysteel Truck Equipment LanD Equipment Inc. Motorola C & E Grossman Chevrolet Cushman Motor Co., Inc. MTI Distributing MTI Distributing Victoria Repair & Mfg. VEHICLE/EQUIPHENT Molt Flail Mower 1992 Ford L-8000 cab and chassis Custom dump body with Swenson URC800 sander Monroe 48PRllt5 Snowplow Falls TAH-9 Wing Felling FTZT Packer Trailer Two (2) Motorola Maxtrac Two Way Radios Ford Ranger Supercab 4X4 Pickup Turf Sprayer Slit Seeder Lawn Sweeper Mower Trailer All voted in favor and the motion carried. BID AHOUNT $ 2,700. $38,300. $10,467. $10,585. 2,495. $ 1,408. $13,298. $ 4,012. $ 3,762. $ 8,932. $ 2,200. CONSIDER SIZE OF BUILDING, 4141 KINGS ROAD, LOWELL CARLSON. Jo Ann Olsen: The Council reviewed this in December and tabled actlon untll they could actually go out to the site to see the existing situation. What's in front of the Council is they have to come to an agreement on the size of the building and outside storage area for Lowell Carlson on his site. This is part of a settlement agreement between the clty and Lowell Carlson. Lowell has submitted a site plan with a 12,000 square foot building which staff had stated that was in excess of what could be permitted on that site. We recommended originally a 3,000 square foot building and a 2,000 square foot screened outdoor storage area. The settlement agreement states that Lowell has to have everything within a building or within a screened storage area. Whatever is not in those areas has to be removed from the site. I thlnk as you've seen on the siLe visit, there's a lot of stuff that could be removed from the site but Lowell's concerned that what he does keep on the slte, he wants to be able to contain in a building so the elements, the weather, doesn't contlnue to ruin bls equipment and allow him to contlnue to work on his equipment. Staff i$ still recommending that the 12,000 square foot is too large and not be accepted and that if the Counc11 still consider a 3,000 square foot buildlng and the 2,000 square foot outdoor storage area. 21 C.{t.y Counci.l. Meeting - Hatch 23, 1992 Hayer Chmir.,.l: Okay. Thank you. Mr'. Carlson. Do you have something to say to us title u.s thi.$ evening? It's nice to see that your arm's o~t of a sling. Lo~e]l Ca'rl:-~o'n: Well., they're talking about a 3 and a 2 and that's 5 and I don't know what ~'m going [o do with the rest if that's the case but anyway. m~.an that's kind of sma].], or whatever. I guess everybody'~ looked at it and we went through it and we've back here again but I kind of, we kind of get it out of ~he way or done or whatever but I don't know. As far as the size and stuff, well for in.stance let's say the buildings around that they have built, they're even ju.~..t riding a horse inside of it Nobody really you kew size didn't make no d~Fference there. And I don't know. I guess I don't qulte understand what you're really getting at as far as down on size. Some of them buildings are x lo0 something you know and you know this is just a riding stable or whatever or whatever storage now I guess some are. But I guess I kind of want to get it cleaned up just as bad as you but I'd llke to have a big enough building to put it in and get neighbors or whoever off my back and whatever. I'd kind of like to go on with my life you know. But I kind of don't want to be in here again and again and again. I'd like to get it kind of settled maybe just as bad as you do but .T. still, dol~'L want my stuff all outside and whatever because there's t. oo much upkeeI., in ~he whole thing and too expensive too. All my stuff like I told you before was part of deisels. I mean the biggest share of it is deisels and wo'rkJ, ng outside and that is just a little too tough 'For us I guess. But let's see wha~ you come up with or whatever and get out of here or whatever. Thank you. Mayor chmiel: Thank.s Lowell. Discussion. Councilwoman OimJ. er: Mr. Mason, Councilman Mason: I would like to hear what other members of the Council have to say. Mayor Chmiel: Ursula. f.'.ouncilwoman Oimler: Can we start in the middle? No, I really struggled with this. .~ did go out to the slte. I don't want to put anybody out of business or ,:ause any kind of financial hardshlp on anyone that's in business. I know how tough it ls. The ol~ly thing that I could finally compare it to, being that we a~'e in an area here that ls 11kely to be developed soon· There wlll be neighbors and I thirmk we would be real generous if we allowed it to be as blg as some of the sheds that I see out in the country· In our own case we have one a~d I had ~o use that because I could visualize how big it is. It's 44 x 110 com5.~'19 out to just under 5,000 square feet. From what I saw on that slte, and I don't know what you want to keep and what you want to, what you aren't going to be using anymore. I wouldn't favor anything too much larger than that· think that would be adequate fo~' what I saw the equipment that would go in there. And if he wants it inslde then I would go along with 5,000 lnside if that's what I'lc, wants. The other consideration I had was that I remember :'-~peakl~lg to, who was out there Mr. Klrchman? Yeah· He sald something about the building that you waist to use i~ ~ certaln dimension already and that maybe ~,000 would be, without havlng to cut the steel, beams or whatever, that that ~,~ottl. d be a reasonable ..qize. But I wouldn't want to go any higher than that and I'd be willing 'to go with 5,000. 22 City Council Meeting - March 23, 1992 Councilman Workman: What are you saying Ursula? Are you saying 8,000 but 5,0007 Councilwoman Dimler: Well, the lowest 5,000. Highest 8,000. I'm giving you a parameter'. And ..e'll take other comments into consideration. Councilman Mason: That's a good way to get things started. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Richard. Councilman Wing: It's hard to picture these buildings. I'm a customer of Mr. Carlson's so I'm sensitive to bls situation out there and I moved out there decades ago 11ke he dld and nelther one of us ever dreamed that you guys were on your- way out you know. We sort of figured we were there forever and it was ours and never golng to change but I'm givlng up to the fact that there's golng to be stop signs in front of my house in the next couple years. So I guess I have to say in, I'd 11ke to be able to protect Mr. Carlson but I really have to say in defense of the city and Mr. Carlson that it's frankly time to start cleaning up, sizing down because you're golng to have to start sometime. So to approve a large building that's going to cost you a lot of money, that's going to butt head on into the developers coming, I think ls just as unfair to you as to cut the size down and make it difficult today so. What we grant you that's large today ls going to penallze you tomorrow even worst so I get tossed inbetween here. But I think it's time to start removing and sizing down and perhaps the staff recommendation of 3,000 is a little small for what you need. That's a total of 5,000 square feet. Now considering what,s comlng out there, I guess l klnd of hate to see a work area any larger than that because I thlnk you're going to be penalized and hurt even harder in the future so I'm comfortable with the staff recommendation but I'm certainly comfortable with Council's decision to expand that somehow but I guess the 12,000 I don't hear getting a lot of support if that's what the need ls so. I don't thlnk there's anybody more empathetic than I am. Hayor Chmlel: Okay, thank you Richard. I guess I have a question before I go to you Tom. Lowell, how long are you still considering staying in business? Lowell Carlson: How long what? Mayor Chmiel: How long are you considering staying in business? How long do you want to continue wlth what you're dolng at your location? Lowell Carlson: As long as I'm able to work... Mayor Chmiel: I mean age wise. I'm looking at retirement myself. Lowell Carlson: I suppose it will be another 10-15 years...uhen you're looking at the size of the shop or...on the plan you'll see a workshop space...and I guess they were talking about a sprinkling system and stuff in there and that's a cold storage and in the wintertime I don't know .what will happen to those sprinklers unless they antifreeze or whatever...but I just thought I'd bring that up. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thanks. Tom. 23 City COlJ. l~e;i]. HeeLing ~ Harcll 22, 1992 Cottnci]man Ho'rkman: Z know tile day we were out the're it was darn cold and Jt only l-l~.ight...,.n lily feelZng that Mr. Cat-lso[l'S ~n a Vef-y hard busLness. I know I~e's actually on~y 32. ~nd Don ~shuorth ~s ~8. But Z ~2ke Ursula's, the method ~o her m~dncrcs ther~-~ because Lt's a compromise. 22,000 seems aufutty b~g. 3,000 seems aufuJ].y sma~. Rea~y not worth h~s wh&~e to do so. ~nd so Z would throw out ~t number. Z don't know .LC UrsuLa though[ of what other outside storage uouJd be J. nvo~ved either but Z guess Z would tend to settJe for maximum, somewhere betueel~ 6,500 and 7,000. CoLtnciJwoman DJ. ruler: Could I have just one. I thought Mr. Kirchman said something about the fact, if he's concerned about a sprinkler system, that there's d certain size of building if he would stay under, that he wouldn't need a sprinkle'r' system and did I hear that to be around? 30 Ann olsen' I don't know if it's, ]: think it's the type of building. The fact that he has an office .f.~ here also kicks into the fact. I can't answer ['.hat fo'r sure. Maybe Scott knows but. Mayor chmiel: I-to~ many people are contained within the facility. 5o Arvn Otsen' ~here's other factors. I:ounc.tlwoman Dimler: Okay, sc) if he didn't have an office but it was merely ~:torage. Then ,'t certain size of building, I thought he said it was under 8,000, Lh,.zt .it wouldn't need sprinkler system but Z'm wonderJ, ng if we can. ..~o ¢,nn Ol. sen: There's a building code that he 'Lakes that. I don't know what it Co,.tncilwol,ar, Oim].er': Okay. But he does want to have an office in it. You want to have all office there? People will be in there? Lowell Carlson: Thought about it and whenever, yeah... Councilman Masol~: How about 5 and 27 Mayor Chmie].: ~ell, yeah. I looked at the same thing and I was thinking that it's ~ ~2,000 square foot and .l was thinking half of that which would be 6. ~;hat Z have down here. ~ thought about potentially what about two 6,000 square foot. He's got 6 acres there but [hen I thought well that's not going to be too good so Z just took out one of them. The other reason why ~ asked the question ~s how long ~s I've consLdering staying in business. I thought if it were a period of 5 years or 8 years, he is in there now on a ~on-conforming use and we could keep it as that. Once those years are done ,and a certain time would have to be established, we would then automatically then, he would be c~osed down when he retired. ~nd that was the reason why Z asked that part~cu2ar question. C. ouncilman Wo'r'k,~an.' Knowing that when we were out there we met his son and he's {I~ ;'J,e :' ' ' ' :i. · ' · · . . ."'11 Ill)bi. C(,IIII(:iiU~O;!,;:.I, Lljm.ler: Non-conforming use goes with the property doesn't it? Hayer ChmJ. el: No, I don't believe it does. Roger? 24 City Council HeeLing - March Counciluoman Dimler: Doesn't it? It does doesn't it? Yeah. Mayor Chmiel: Non-conforming use goes with the property? Roger Knutson: Yes. Mayor Chmiel: It does, okay. Councilwoman Dimler: So even if someone bought it they could. Mayor Chmiel: Right. Councilman Wing: Don, my concern remains the same and this is in protection of Lowell. Oevelopment pressures are going to run him out of business. Mayor Chmlel: Yeah, his land ls going to be valuable enough to. Councilman Wing: Extremely and it's such a choice piece of land and surrounded by such choice land, again Lowell I want to emphasize my concern that to allow you to put up an expensive large building and then bump head on into development it just seems to be a really difficult situation for you in the future. And then you'd really lose your shirt. I mean you just get done with this project and then these developers come in and everybody's screaming and yelling about Lowell's business right in the middle of their backyard and it's inevitable. I mean you know, I'd like to stop it but I can't and you can't so you mlght as well face reality here and recognize that progress is going to push you out the door. At least force you to relocate or slze down and clean up. I think we've kind of talked about it in the past that when do you start the process. Lowell Carlson: Well does Chanhassen has a cheap piece of property that I can build that building on? Councilman Wing: Of course not. I know it. I know what you're saying. Mayor Chmiel: I guess I understand what you're saying. Let me ask another question. According to some of the Judge's requirements here to remove some vehicles off the slte and have you done that to date yet? Lowell Carlson: Well not to the day you've been there. Mayor Chmiel: No. Lowell Carlson: ...I've got all the equipment... When the building's up, yes..ri just kind of what to make sure that I... Mayor Chmiel: I think we're probably at the moment of decision and I've heard several different numbers proposed. Anywhere from 6,500 to 7,000. If that building basically ls 12,000 square feet, half of that could be put up and I'm not sure what those beam portions were. I'm thinking that if they are in those intervals, 6,000 would probably be falrly close to it and could utlllze some of that existing building that's there. 25 r:o,~r,c:il.m;-~n Ming' ~r, lieLJ of cu(t.ll~g the building down, UOLi]d we [)e ir, terested · ?xI),:tl~(JLn9 tJ~e fa,.r~(;,'::cJ (.~t.tl.$.L('J~'~. s'[.ot';zg8 Lt'f'~.*-a a little bit to accommodate? Hay'or C:hmic].' We"re talking ;:,000 square 'Feet on that. COl.tllOJ.].man W.illg' I can't i-~?..1.(it¢?, to that size. ¢.:o~t,'.,~:.i.l. uomaf, Dimt~.;i": Could ~ just make a comment? One of the concerns that I l.;~,,:c .i.,: t.h,--tf. NL.'"ie lookil',~J at dr~.[nage .Lnt. o I.,'.~kr~. St. Joe he'~'e aren't we and the I;.5,:,:)0r 1. he I'~lt~J:tJl~.; al~d I.i~¢; more impervious surface we have, the ].ess problems u.:~.'.l.1 I-i~ve u.[ii~ ¢~tLer quality. Correct? 3o A~r, Ol. sen-'- When he submitted his site plan we did require a drainage plan ,.,t," ,,.l t h,',. 'L shownd... [t J)e.tllg C. ottr~ciluoman DJ. ruler' So you h;~ve a loc:atio~ for the building regardless of what t: Fps? Hayer Chmiel" N,; he'd l~ave Lo have a collection point as well for any drainage I.h,tL ~ou.]d c:(~me from th,'.~t pai-ticul,.tr building. .T.t probably has to be a hard C'oLtn¢:~Ju~omar~ Dimle'r: Okay, $:o 'that's taken care of. Co,tn(.:ilmar~ Wo,"kmL~ll; Hr. M,'tyor, I'd make a r0otion to approve for Hr. Carlson ~:~000 square Foot building u[th 2,000 square: foot outdoor storage, screened. (:o~tn¢':.[.1. wom¢zl~ ri.i.m].:.,i .... ThL~.t sot.Libels 9oo(J. r_'.ou~cilma~ H,'~son.' I'll secol~d that. M,'-tyor Chmie. 1; II:'s b~.;:-;~l ii, ov~'.d ~t'~,'J secorldr;d. O[scussioll. We're looking at a 6,0.'.30 ::qlt,.tr'e '[oo( built.ting. That would be acceptable to the City and ineet all ~o(.:~ss,'iry codas ~itll ~ 2,000 sqLLore foot totu], sLor,'~ge 8rea. Outside storage d'r'o,'~. That ~.].1 g.ive you approx.i.m~l.o]y the 8,000 square feet af~d you're st111 t ,)t~e.11. Carlson: And t fiat's wit h t he shop in t hat 2,0007 Hayo,- Chmiel: l'haf, wou].d probab].y be w.[tll the shop inside that 6,000 from what .T:m h¢;,'~r'~.ng C:ounc. J. lman Workmate; .Ts 8,000 total square feet enough to store everything he h,-ts (Jut 1. heFt'? .T.:; ,.q,O00 Sql.t4;~-;g fe~'.'.t enougll for him to store every[hJ_ng out 110¢87 Jo hnll O.l. scl~' Everything he's got? Prohably not but you k~ow it's our ~':~l~len[j.O~l 1. h,'~t :some of that s(t.tff could be removed. ,~i,~>'or' r;hmie].: Ye,}h, there's several thlngs that he's pi. arming on renloving. [h[.nk if ?ott check that list tl~,}b has storage plumbing 11kc in the step van, arid Z don't knot,~ lr '(hat's still a workable vehlcle or not. Then all those v~::l~icJ, ec Lh;~t ,'zi'c o1~ site ,~l'e required to have licenses from my understanding. 26 City Councit Meeting - March 23, 1992 Lowell Carlson: Inside? Mayor Chmiel: Pardon me? Lowell Carlsorl: The ones inside would have to be too? Roger Knutson: If you keep them inside they don't have to be licensed. Mayor Chmiel: Right. If they're withln the building, they don't have to be licensed. Those on the outslde have to. Lowell Carlson: ...12,000 and so now we're talking about 8,000... Mayor Chmiel: Rlght. Yeah and that's one of the things that we're looking at and we realize that lt's cutting you a 11ttle blt short. But maybe with some of the existing vehicles that you have there or some of the things that you are no longer golng to be using, you'll eventually be disposing of I would assume. Lowell Carlson: On that list Don... Mayor Chmlel: There's also the other items that are to be removed from the slte. Now is that one blue and white van, shingles, large rusty gas barrel container, fiberglass bathtub unlts, batteries, materials to assemble bullding to be used when the building goes up and of course that's portions of that. Blue cab with a semi trailer with GWl17. Small yellow garage. Green building full of pZumbing supplies be removed when the new storage building ls built and the supplles of course golng to be moved from there. And the flshlng houses and the garbage pile. Lowell Carlson: Okay, but fish houses aren't allowed to be stored on private property... Mayor Chmlel: Who can answer that better? Fish houses allowable on site? Roger Knutson: The 3udge's order, they have to go. Mayor Chmiel: Those are the 1rems that I was jusl reading. But I remember when ~, I don't have it anymore but I dld have a fish house on the side of my garage. I dld eventually put it lnside when I took the boat out but. Roger Knutson: There are fish houses and there are fish houses...and that's the Court Order. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Well that's the Judge's order. We haven't got anything to do on that. Okay. Any other discussion? Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Mason seconded to allow Mr. Lowell Carlson a 6,000 square foot building and 2,000 square feet of outside screened storage for a total of 8,000 square feet of storage area. A11 voted in favor and the motion carried. Mayor Chmlel: We don't 11ke il any more than you do. 27 Cily Cou~il. Heet. in9 - March 23, ].992 l.ouell Carlson: I don't know wl~ere we're going... lJa>,or C. hmiel: Hope[[tl.J.y we're 9J. vJn9 you a little bit more. Thank you. DISCUSSION OF WATER SURFACE USEAGE ORDINANCE. Councilman Wing; I said that Z would represent the Lotus Lake Homeowners Associ. ation this evening and Susan Conrad. Jo Ann Olsen; Slle was going to come back at 10:00. 6ounci].ma~l Wing: Yeah, T. thought this was going to be later. It's irrelevant. Z so'rt of sided w.ttl~ yolz and the decision you made Z was comfortable with that and frankly if it stayed. Steve Emmings sald he wlsh he would have caught that l)eca~se he doesn't like th,'tt option be given lo his neighbors and I was one of tl~c,m. L. otu~ I. ake feJ. t that we had cu'[ back on the number of boats and were ~..:oTiCerlled about Lhe number of boats and then we gave homeowners all option of i;,e. rhnp-~: ,tddin9 a boat ~ 11ttle more easily than we could have in the past. The problem is there's i~ever bee~ a problem. Probably never wil]. be a problem. As ].'ye gone around Hinneuashta, everybody has one boat. Consistently down the line. And Z had a friend's boat there last year. Nobody knew Lt. Nobody sa.rd anything. They certainly will thls next year. Because of the difficulty of tak.i.l~O someLhil~g aw,'.~y in th,'; future, they would like us to go back to the old definitJ, on of owner, fanllly member specific. Hayo'r Chm.i. el' l'l~at was really my intent at the time. Courmcilnlan Wing: RJ. ght, in which case then I would I think reconsideration would be Ldeal to do that. To leave a~ is, I can live with it but I thlnk we're encouraging an lncrease of boats and then there would not be, as long as the homeouner'~ came Jn a~md tried to get the recreational beachlots to hold the line, I c~rtalnly think they should do equally. Back in 1982 the homeowners did cut back from '.; to 3 boats in 9oDd faith lo try and encourage that and I think we r~hould hold the ]lne on that in this case so. I guess I'm very comfortable ulth going to the old definition of owner, fatally members speciflc and Don Z don't k~om.~ what the protoco].s are here. Zt'~ in your ballpark now. Z only brought it up For that reason. Mayor Chmiel: This is fi. ne and I think what we should probably do is to have Roger redraft that and come back to Councll with the concerns that have been so indicated thls evenlng. And I thlnk my intent was at that time that we did that, that that be a blood reiatlve to be able to use it. In thls particular instance, thi:.: lndivJ, dual dldn't even have a boat at hls dock, even though he had a dock. But ,~t tl~e s,~me token, he couldn't allow hls klds to utilize that who live right next door but are not directly on the lake. And so consequently my concern was that that .[ndividual should be allowed to have a blood relative util.i, ze that dockage. So if you can draft something to come back to us with, wLth some of th~; thi~gs that Dick has indicated in here and Dick and I have had ,'l';..-:,¢:.ussions, T'd appreciate that. (:ourloiJm~n Wir~g: Roger, tile only (hing we changed on that ordinance was just must be moo'red .in front of the home. And so I guess the Drily suggestion here ls 28 City Council Meeting - March 22, 1992 strictly to go back to the original first sentence. The owner, does that meet the needs that you felt is happening? Mayor Chmiel: Yeah I think owner or family member. Councilman Wing: And it doesn't go back to Planning Commission, it just comes straight to us for a public hearing? 3o Ann Olsen: Public hearing, yeah. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. It would have to come back to us for a public hearing. Or should that 9o through Planning? Roger Knutson: Jo Ann's indicating not. Jo Ann Olsen: Well it's not a planning, it's not a zoning. It's under water surface useage. Mayor Chmiel: You're right it is, so it should come back through Council. Right. Okay. Very good. Item number 10. DISCUSSION ON WHETHER THE CONPOST SITE IN BANDINERE PARK SHOUkD BE REOPENED IN SPRING. Mayor Chmiel: I guess 3o Ann and I have had discussions on this and I guess I've been under the concern because of all the brush that we have had basically and leaves in the spring and fall and sometimes inbetueen when we've had storms, all this brush has been sitting out on the front curbs waiting to be picked up. No way of disposing it. And consequently I think that we should have a location at least within the community for our citizens to get rid of their given problems. So with that I'll give it back to you. Jo Ann Olsen: Okay. This has been discussed pretty extensively by the Recycling Committee and they have recommended to the Council that the site be re-opened. On page 2 of the staff report they go through the conditions that they felt should be applied to the re-opening of the compost site and that is that it should only be open in the spring and the fall. Not through the summer. Thai. it only be open on Saturdays from 9:00 to 4:00 and we would only have 1 employee instead of the 2 that we had. We found that we did not need 2 employees. And that we also, they recommended that the fees be increased to 50 cents per bag for grass clippings and a $1.50 for a bundle of brush. And that the site would be open to all people, not just limited to Chanhassen residents. Hayor Chmiel: I have a quick question on that bundle of brush. What does a bundle of brush, the size of it? Jo Ann Olsen: What ue had decided was 4 inch, I think it was like a 4 inch. had it described. It's got to be tied and it can't be more than, I can't remember what the dimensions were. Mayor Chmiel: A nice bundle size. Jo Ann Olsen: It's a nice bundle size. 29 City Co~tlici] i'l~..~ei.~T~9 --H,'tl'ch 23~ 1992 H~yor ChmJnl.' Okay, Thc~ other thing I think we discussed too, or' was in here th~,L w~: should ope~ it to other people within Carver County and I really qLte:~tJOll that. I thJ. nk that's our responsibility and we have to pay for those c:osL.q; of whatever it's going to go out should hope. fully pay for itself. But I'm not so cure that that'~ really our responsibility to go outside of oLtr realms of tl',~¢ city to help everybody else within Carver County. I guess I sort of lesn ~.hat we should be t l~e responsible person. Co~znc£Lma~ Mason: '£ think Z might have missed what you said at the beginning. T[ (;~'rver County is kicking some money into this too. Mayor Chmiel' They gao,.; us SS,O00.O0 last year for it, right. But I don't t.h[nk we should be J~, a position to accept things from outside of the corporate 1. imit.s. Even though they provided that, the County made that contribution to us witho,.tt this going [ul.! scale, wi. se as far as the County is concerned. 4nd I think it was ju:~t that dedication, dollar dedication if I'm not mistaken is tho wz~>, it came ,'.~c~'oss. But I think that having that site available and if we plan on using it, .it is strictly city people should have that option. Tom. Councilman Workman: I thought of that too and now I'm a part of a regional board '.;o ;[ have this regional flavo~' about me but Z wondered about that. Who would dr{.v¢: from, I doi~'t know how far really with a bag of, pardon me? Mayor Chmiel: New Germany. Coltncilman Workman.' From New Germany or Young America with a bag of clippings you know. Those people out there, they'd lose tha~ bag off the tailgate of their car before 'tl~ey'd, T think I just pigeonholed a whole bunch of communities I',ere.. But you know I don't know that that, do we really have that big of a problem? Jo Ann Olsen: Well. the only city that would be of concern would is Victoria. Almu::sr. all tho otl',el' cJ.~.tes iii C,i'rver County, to my understanding, have their own colllpost s~.te. Co,,'nci. lman kl~rkma)~: hnd Chaska, don't they have a big one by Jonathan there? And £f Z were ].iving in Victoria, that's where I'd go. C.o~ncilman Mason: find that's what came up at the last solid waste advisory meeting. Ti]at every city, and a number of townships, do have their own compo~.ing f,'~ci]J, ty. Correct me if I'm wrong Jo Ann but I think one of the reasons, another reason we came up with this is for one person to be monitoring, l mean wi. th all the dJ. ffefent addresses. ~ mean some of us live in Excelsior that are Cha~ resJdent..a of' this that and the other thin9 and that can end up being a faJ r'].y cumbersome process. We just kind of felt let's just open it up. Co~ncJ. lmnn ~J. llg: This is too far away for me to drive. Counc.t].man Workman: Where do you go with your goose droppings? Councilman Wing: sl~oreuood. What happened to the good old days? No, no, no. Cot~nci.lman If, son: The good o].d days don't get any better, they just get older. 30 City Council Meeting -March 23, 1992 Councilman Wing: It seems, I wish the County was able to hang onto this and it's unfortunate. Or the Arboretum. What an ideal situation. They have enormous composting area that has machinery and was handled by the County or the Arboretum. What a luxury that was and now we're facing reality and it really is a difficult situation. But Z have to rely on staff's position Don. Let's say we have a problem from the outside and I think if that problem exists and it becomes, it manifests itself, then I would say we'd cut it back. I'm not sure thef'e's a problem right now. A friend of mine called from Minnetonka and wanted to dump a truckload and when he found out it was down there, he went to an alternate source or had someone pick it up because he thought he could just drive out to the Regiofial Park and dump them. The question I had is what about my pick-up oT' trailer where I just put ali my leaves in, put a tarp on. How are you charging me to come in with a pick-up truck load or a trailer? Jo Ann Olsen: We had that last year. I believe it was like $2.00. We had a base fee for truck loads. Mayor Chmiel: Most.of them leave it uncovered and drive very fast. Councilman Workman: Doesn't Chaska accept large limbs and things? Jo Ann Olsen: They've been having nothing but problems with that site and they're following what we're dolng now. Councilman Workman: Oh, they don't accept the large limbs anymore? I mean that wi].1 pile up fast. I guess I would move re-opening of the compost site as recommended by staff unless the Mayor feels stronger about it. Mayor Chmiel: No. I'm just stating my opinion. Councilman Wing: I'll second that and then we'll go to discussion. Mayor Chmlel: Any other discussion? Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve the reopening of the compost site at Bandimere Park with the following conditions: l. The site will be reopened only for the spring and fall of 1992, and any future openlngs of the slte shall be reviewed after these two tlme perlods. The site will be opened this spring in mid-April through the first of June (Apr11 18 thru June 6). 2. The slte wi11 only be open on Saturdays from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.. One employee will be hlred to attend the site. There will be a fee of 50 cents per bag for grass clippings and leaves and $1.50 per burldle of brush. 5. The site would be open to all and not just limited to Chanhassen residents. All voted in favor and the motion carried. 31 C~.i~y C. ounc:il. H~,ot.ir~g ~- H~rcll ?3, R[C[IVE FEASIR.T. LITY SI'UOY FOR COUNTY ROAD i? IMPROVEMENT (FROM TH 5 TO 400 FEET SOUTH OF LAKE DRIVE); CALL FOR PUBLIC HEARING, PRO2ECT 90-4. Cl',,.~r].es F'olch; Hr. itayor, member~; of the Council. As I have described in my st,~ff report., I:h.L:~ projec:~ was previously author/zed by Council back in July of 1990 and ~t that LJ. mo plans and specifications were authorized For preparation. S.il,co that lime there's been a number of factors that have affected the time ~:~c:;'~cd~le of thi~; project. One I)articular being the interfacing with the ~.mprovemeilts of TH 5 at CR 17 and the desire to only have olle ro~d closure at · Lh,~ rotation. And since this p~oject h~s not initiated construction uithin one ye,'~r uF it's ord~r.[ng, we're required by State statute to rehold the public hea,"jng on the p'rojecl.. So bssically I've asked our project consultant eng/neeY I.o i~i"epaFe ;zn ~pd~le to that feasibilJ, ty study uhich is included i1~ the packet. ~e are askin9 that you accept the update this evenJ, n9 and call for a publ/c heaFing on ~pri~ 13th. Mayor ChmJ. e].: Thank you. Charles, ]' look at that total amount of dollars. What tota] d~s~nco ~.s I.J'~t from TH 5 ~1] tho u~y 400 fee~ beyond Lake Orive? T. cc,~ldn't find Jt in here. Charl::s F(~lch: .T. may I~ave that. !'i;~,,.'of r. hmJ.,.-l: The r,3ason I'm asking t. hat question J.s that jt appears to me that 300,790.00 seems rath~.-.~ exorbitant. Co[tr, ci]man Mason.' It does seems lJ. ke a ].et for not a very long stretch of road. ,H,'.~yor Chmiel: Yeah. [:harlo:s FoJch: P'rol~ably esLimate that Jt'.s a little bit better than half a mile etch of roadway. l'l~yo'r £hmie]" Is that an overlay that we plan on doing? Ch;.~rles Folcl'l: No, th,'.~t's a total reconstruction. Mayor Chmiel: A].] ne.w? Cl~arlns F(~.lch: ,,11.1 new. Mayor Chmiel: How long has that existJ, ng road been C:l',arles Folch: I don't haw; [hat information off ~he top of my head but it is an exi~tJ, ng rural, seclion there and .~o i[ is proposed to b~ totally r~c:onstructed to 4 lanes wiLh turn lal~es al~d curb and gutter. Mayor Chmiel'. Presently it runs 4 lanes Ltp to. Charles Foloh: Just south of Lake Orive, that's correct. O.:)r, A:shworth: Oetween 1';-77 a]ld ~978 J.s when thai: was built. 32 City Council Meeting - March 23, 1992 Mayor Chmiel: That long ago? It doesn't seem like that long. Okay. But yet as I look at that, the condition of that road is really not that bad. What is existing now with Lhe 4 lanes that go under the viaduct. Or under the underpass of the railroad. Could that not have an overlay? It seems iike the road itself has stood up quite well. There's not been any real potholes on that at this time. Or does the configuration of the road, is it going to be different than what it Js presently? Charles Folch: The base alignment will follow the same alignment that's currently there now. With the addition of, you're going to have the addition of the turn lanes. You're going to have some extension of the road base section itself. Mayor ChmieI: Is there some way that we can check that out just to make sure? know I've iooked at the figures that you've got in here, or some of them. And this sort of makes me sit back and just ask those specific questions as I have. Even on the adminstrative costs. 30~ of that for $318,000.00. Charles Folch: Yeah, that 30~ is a typical. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, and I understand that. And that went up from the 244 to the 318 because of the additional cost. Just because the increment cost changes that have taken place in the past year. Could you take a look at that and get back to me on that? Charles Folch: Sure. Councilman Hason: I thought Hr. Horn was going to be here tonight. Do you know what happened with him Charles? Charles Folch: Actually, slnce this ended up towards the end of the meeting and not knowing how late Lt would go, I basically gave him the night off until the public hearings. Councilman Mason: Okay, and maybe you can answer this. Do you know why thls increase? Charles Fo]ch: Yeah, it was adjusted from two factors. One belng the increase in cost from about a year, year and a half. Actually 2 construction years difference from 1990 to 1992. But also as we went lnto the deslgn phase last year, soil borings were taken out there and a soil exploration was conducted which that information that was generated was not available at the time the orlginal feasibility was done. We found that there's some very, very poor soils out there. In fact because of the poor solls, the project ls golng to have to be constructed in two stages where the northern half basically from Lake Drive to TH 5 will be constructed as permanent thls year and the southern portion would go under a surcharge for 9 to 12 months and that be constructed unt£1 next year. So that has added a substantial amount of that increase to the project. Councilman Workman: Quickly, I remember when we went over this the first time and we gO[ a prominent buslness person in the community was rather nervous about all this and so was his attorney and everything else. Has there been further d~scussions with those people? And ! recall some of the discusslons being, we 33 aJ.,"eady pai. d ur Lhcy thought they paid For a 4 l~,ne hZgl~ay. Nov we're doing it ,:;'.]:,";[fi ,'.il'ir! rl()t:J t,jr; Jl,'tV.::'. pOOl' [;OL)_t~ alld Row T. mF],?tll. ]] tended I.o kind of empathize ;~.ith t. hem al. I. hal. po~nt.. T stil~ am and Z haven't been kind of, 0[ still haven't J:,or;T~ [~olcJ over l.j~ai, f.l',osu bus.i, ness~;s and those parcels maybe aren'L being Jrc..al. ed Ltl~[a~_r"[y. Does that make sense? (:harZes Folch: Yooh. ~: r;~n'L sp~.ak rot what was sa~d before but being that l.h,qf, i.e. ,'.~ ~:ottnty 'r'~)ad, .I.'m assuming the f~rst tZme ~t was constructed was under count>, contracL and if that's Lhe c~se, Z woutd~'l, have assumed tl~at any po;-'Llons of tl~ose road &mp'r'ovements wouZd have been assessed back to the ,'.tbl;ttil~:j prol)r.'rL? owner's. Typical. iF ¢::ounl. y i-oad improvements aren't. But as l'o,l(] ¢~cl T. have. di...~CtlSSed today, w~. had pi. armed on getting together with these :...:.l~[r.,cont pr(,pefLy owners between ~;ow ~nd the public hearing, at least informing !.l'-,.._-..r~! ~:,'r tl]r.,. ~;cu¢ ,_:o:':t. and t,~hat's J.l-lVolved and such before the hearing. Counc.[lman Wol-kmal~: Whether they're.: assessed o~' not, to know that there's a 4 l,.,'.n.~-: l;/91~wa>' o~tl. Lhn;-',': i~ow and then to come back and redo l't and get assemsed f(.~r it nov, they're probab.l.y f.[gLtririg it does them just fine and t. lley nlight have .'~r',, ,~f'91.tm,~Pt. Oft[ I'd b,.'. intere.~ted iT1 knowing what they say about that or where th,.'":t,.'"'re at becausr.-~ Todd (-;,::that(It: A lot of people still qualify for special assessment reduction 7, r'oqrams '.-';om,'-: of t l~em only took advantage of a year' and a half or two years so t.h:'.y st. ill. h~ue abort't, I'm go.i. ng to say about another year's worth of, in the 3 '; ' -": ,':'. i- [:rogralh. Coltr,,':il, mal~ L,~o'rkl'n,.tn' H,~.ai~5.110 what? Meaning HRA would. Tocld Gerh,'tr,:lt- hssislanc:e, yes. oo~, ,q..:.:l'~uo'r-tJ-i.. T'm not SL[rf~. the ow~ors you're referring to but it was actually }.,:~-~">.' C':ar'/s()l~ ai~d I'rarlk 3eddor wlmo were the early ones in actual].y stJ. mulating !l~t.~x i>roj,.'.(:'.t arid ye.s, T did meet wlth Jerry. I-lc carl see a real beneflt in being r..bJ.~ to, wi[il an urban uection, they would literally be recapturing a portion of i.h,:tt p','operty in '[l~e storm sewer and lighting, etc.. And Todd is correct. 'l'l:o.c¢:. are 3 'our~L~esses [hat r~all7 d[d not use dollars that were kind of auai.l, able to them. It's kLnd of ironic, }n fact I ~as just mentioning to the ;'tLt:~rncy because om~¢~ of the I.l'mJ. ng~ that Jot'r7 sa.Ld ~as, ~ell then if thls goes flmrough 1' r:ou]d i. rmtl7 lac treated as the rest of the businesses. And Z said, yes and he was happy a.[ time[ polnt. The only one who r think mLght be hurt by the project or could make the kind of comments you're referring to is. Workman' Del) Pattoll. [']o~, ¢,shuo','tl~: ~J¢~11 I ,Jon't know. fJ~) w,: go dou~, and touch Patron's property? H,'t>'or Chmi~].' I (Ion'!,: think so. Don t~shworth." T. don't think so. I was thinking of Bongard and the Empak [',i o?~',, t'7. ~l,-.tyor Ohmic1: Yeail, he would be. 34 City Council Meeting - March 23, 1992 Todd Gerhardt: ...check his numbers but I think...dollars available with some oF the increases we've seen this year. I don't know if we're going to be able to pick all of it up but a pretty good chuck of it. Hayer Chmiel: Because of all the work that ue did on iTH 5, that's the reason we're retaining 8RW for this, is that correct? Charles Folch: Excuse me? Mayor Chmiel: Because of all the work that they have done previously on this is the reason why we retained BRW? Charles Folch: That's correct. They had prepared the original feasibility study and plans and specs for the project and are familiar with the history. Todd Gerhardt: This project was submitted about 2 years ago. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, I remember that. About a year. No, I thought it was, well 2 years ago and it was brought in last year I thought. Charles Folch: Yeah, the date that we have for authorizing preparation of plans and specs was July of 1990, Councilman Wing: Charles, how are these properties going to benefit from this improvement? They've already got, as was mentioned, they've already got this ],arge road. For this amount of money, how are they going to benefit? What are we going to do for them that justifies? Charles Fei. ch: As it relates to the roadway itself, with the introduction of channelization turn lanes. It makes access in and out of their properties more amenable. As Don had mentioned, instead of having ditches running alongside their properties, there will be storm sewer installed and with the urban section now they have more basically land on the property for landscaping and such. Todd Gerhardt: I think people that have buildings out there will probably benflt from it but the people that will contend that they won't beneflt wlll be like tl~e Paul's who own that large tract of land on the south side of the railroad tracks that haven't developed yet and are holdlng the land you know for future developments. I'm sure that a representative of their's will be in at the public hearlng contesting it. But there's just nothlng I can do unt11 they build something out there. Councilman Wing: Just one more question. As it ties into TH 5 and you mentioned earlier about the rise of the road, how this has to be done is this percipltating. Is this independent from that or does it tie lnto that? Compliment that? Charles Folch: I'm sorry, I didn't follow that. Councilman Wing: TH 5 is coming in at a higher level. Charles Folch: That does have a minor impact on CR 17. In fact the touch down point for the TH 5 project is about halfway between TH 5 and Park Road. 35 hic, yof' ¢.:i~mJe. l:' Ok,-.~F. Any ol.h,;r dJ. scuss_[on? )'f ~ot., T'd like to get some of Lliz:L ,'.';i,'~ri[i~;ati¢~n back on it. But do we have a motion to call for a public h...-....~,-i~q, proj~..ct 90-4? COLtncilman Wing: So mov~.:d. Mayor F;hlniel: Is lhere a second? Cc:,u~lci.tma~l Hdsol~: Sr:cond. Rt;solution ~92-44: Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Mason seconded to accept the feasibi].it~ study update for Count~ Road 17 Upgrade south of Trunk High,ay 5 toJth clarifications by staff; and to call for the public hearing for Monday, April 13, 1992. All voted in favor and the motion carried. COUNCIl. PRESENTATIONS: CottilC'.J.l.m;tr~ Wing: Hr. Hayor? t'l.-,',,o." Chmi,?.].': Yes. Wing: This J.s my weakest point. Council Presentations. Mayor chmieJ; You di. dn't put it on tile agenda. [:c,~tncilma~l Wilde: And we had a rather serious house fire on Saturday and the f.i. rc,. clepar'tment ~;,:,s re. viewing t llat and T. was hard pressed to walk out. But I d~d have an i'le..'n I ~,;anted to just hit on brlefly. 9e'r'y briefly. Would the ti~.y~.,l' a.t].ow me: jktst one quick Council pres,enlation? Hayor ChmJe. l: S~tre. Go ahead. Councilman Wing: The water ,.luaIity task force has been very effective and it's a sea.~oned grottp that I~as 9oi. i. en together and kept thls thlng on line and dZl'¢-~ctcd. Z beJ..ievc that we could emulate that group very effectively with a s.i.m~.laf' task force or, this TH 5 project, whlch T thlnk ls probably even more co:;Ll.:/. T~ neecl~ even more directlom~ and Z think we've talked abou( task force hm.t~ T ~,¢ou1(I 1.;kc Lo request Cot.t~mcil'-; permission to instruct staff or however Z sl~ould say I'hi:~, ask th~ Mayor t.o instrlzc:t Council, if so des.trod, to advertise For .l.n'lere~t¢~d par'lies I.o formally establish a TH 5 corridor study task force so tl,nt w~ can meet on a ~'eg~tlar bas.is a;ld got this d.i. rected and keep tabs on ~¢hat's going on. Z certainly am interested in serving on it and I know there's a ]..ot of other coli~mUllity citizens. Co~tr;c~lman Workman: ...we~ve clone that tholtgh[? Cou. nciJ.mar, bJJng' No, that was only to look iilto the possibility of a fe,~;.i.t.',~11t, y study. So I wou].d like to ask Councll to formally establish a TH 5 col'ridor study task force. H.'ty~)f- Chn, iel: I think that's a good idea but I'd like to see incorporated into i1':,-~t ~:omc of th~; business peoplt; in and adjacent to TH 5. 3.6 City Council Meeting -. March 23, 1992 Councilman Wing~ Absolutely. Mayor Chmiel: As well. I'd like to see some of those business people incorporated in there. Cotincilman Wing: The, oh it's only 9:30. You know when you put all the pieces together to combine the make-up of the group, certainly has to have land owners. Certainly has to have planners. Certainly has to have business people involved and I don't know how you want to establish that. Mayor Chmiel: Well I think we can take a look at that when we get the people in to, those wanting to serve on that particular. Councilman Wing: Right. I think it needs to be formally advertised and that would be my request this evening, if Council chooses to form that task force. CouncJluoman Dimler: We can't act on that today. Mayor Chmiel: No, ue can't act on it today but ue can have this go on at the next meetlng and have it go through. Councilman Mason: Do we need to say anything about this? Mayor Chmiel: No, I don't thlnk so. That's just an administrative presentation indicating as to some of the things that they're proposing to do. Even though 9~00 p.m.. Councilman Workman: That's an ordinance though isn't it? Mayor Chnliel: We can't act on it this evening either only because it's not been pill on ol.tr agenda. But if we would 11ke, we should brlng it up at our next meeting as part of it. They're requesting to extend the hours to 9:00 p.m.. Charles Folch: I think they were hoping for some sort of action tonight. They're currently in the process of doing their soil correction work at this point. I thlnk 2 weeks, wlthln 2 weeks they'll probably have most of their soll correction work completed. Mayor Chmiel: Well I don't really find that as a problem because there aren't any residential homes in and adjacent to it. Councilman Workman: I agree. Mayor Chmiel: It's all within the downtown area and it shouldn't really disturb anybody wlthin that particular location. The only thing we might get is on a very still nlgh[ and maklng sure that they are done off at 9:00 because I hate getting calls at 10:00 and ll:O0 and 12:00 and I have to go talk to the people. I guess I don't see, this isn't really affected us by any ordinance is it? Councilman Mason: Noise ordinance. Mayor Chmiel: 9:007 37 C.ii? Coul~cJ. 1 H~.c'tjl~g .- I'larc:h 23, 1992 6h;~;-.les Folch: The primary reason it's being brought before you is this is a .'..:hange ,.~l~d one oF tile stil)uJ.ations of tile develop~r~ent contract which bnsicalty .1. J,nJLs them ~o a 6:00 p.m.. Hayor Ohmic1: Okay. That is contained in the contract? r. ouncilwoman DJ. roi. er: PI. us 1[ was consistent with our nolse ordinance. Cha~'l¢~.s Folch: The only property ow~er, I mean there is potential for problems '[ uoulcl see maybe with the Country Suites Hotel. Hayor Chmie]: Yeah. I was thinking residential, Councilwoman DJ. ruler: I'd hate to be a guest there. Hayor Chmielr How doe3 this jeopardize the project from going from 7:00 a.m. to g~O0 p.m. and extending it the additional 3 hours? Charles Folch: Well, all I can go on is basically the information you have on 1.1'~, copy of 1. hi~ ~etter' J.s that it impacts their proposed time schedule in doing the. if sol.1, correction, '~ think ~he? initially got a little bit later start in doJ. n¢ [.he. ir gradJ, ng work than they had p)anned af~d thus they're a little bit bchir, d r.~chedule.. Oon A~:hwor[h: The suggestion that is, staff will basically not enforce [hat '.~eot. j. orl basically allowJ_ng them to go until 9:00. That would allow tls a t. illleframe j.~ here to monltor it to see if J.t is a problem. ;If it is a problem, well in eitl~er c,~se ~e'11 put it onto your next agenda but at least by that point i.n 'time ue will know if there's a problem. :If a problem does occur, then we wi. Il shut them doun and not allow them. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I would like us to contact Country Suites and make them ~war~ of that f~ct ~s well. As to what we are going to do then. CouncJlmarl Mason: Does this f].y in front of the noise ordinance though? I mean iF ~t (t(1)8S, ar.r.~n:t we kind of saying well because it's a city project it's okay? r.~o,~ hshworth: I believe we did this for Rosemount when they were looking at building that facility. We also did it for McGlynn. .r. ouncilman Hason; I mean I personally T. understand the point. Mayor Chmiel'. Well it isn't f'eally a city project per se. It's a developer's project. (;o~tnc:ilman Mason: Well, would we allow any developer to go until 9:00? I mean wasn't Market .Square? I'm just throwing that out I guess. Todd Gerhardt: ...get a complaint, wham they're out of there. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, they're back to the normal time. 38 C{ty Council Meeting - March 23, 1992 Councilman Mason: Well that's true but that's kind of putting the cart before the horse. I mean we have an ordinance that says you can't do it and so now we're saying well, go ahead. If nobody calls, what the hock. Councilman Wing: The ordinance was kind of intended to go towards residential and not commercial. Councilman Mason: No, I understand that but ! mean I kind of wonder if we're. Councilwoman Dimler: I agree with you Mike. Councilman Mason: In the same ballpark here. Councilman Work,n,~n: IF I can interject. Councilwoman Dimler: We can't do it tonight anyway unless we have a 4/5 vote to reconsider our rules. Councilman Workman: I don't mind standing on principle if it were going to harm something. I don't think thls is going to harm anything. I think the biggest danger might be somebody leaving Fllly's and having too many and maybe getting struck by a large vehicle. But I don't think this is going to, I think it will come and go and nobody will know. Mayor Chmiel: All they're doing yeah, basically is just moving some of those soils off there. And whether they're golng to be haullng all of that, dlrectly or indirectly, that's another question. That may be done the next morning too. Councilman Workman: I'm encoraged that they want to keep a schedule. DOll Ashuorth: And again, you did do this for McGlynn. For Rosemount where we allowed longer hours. In fact McGlynn went way into the evening ls my recollection. They moved that whole. Councilman Mason: What year was that? I believe that was last year. Councilman Workman: No it wasn't... Councilman Mason: Mr. Public Safety. Scott Hart: You have a section in the noise ordinance which provides for a permit to be pulled for certaln nolse producing activities and although I don't have that in front of me, I think this might be an appropriate use of that to allow us to work ulth them directly and advlse them that if we get too many complaints, ue have to deal with that. If they wanted t-o work with Todd or Char]es, I think that would be an approprlate...does not vlolate the noise ordinance and yet they go out... Co~:ncilman Mason: I'd be a lot happier with that. Mayor Chmiel: Well maybe we should refine the ordinance. Councilwoman Dimler: No, I don't think so. 39 (':.i I,,., (:oun~.:J]. Iqer,.L.~r.?j ..- Harcl~ ;~!3, C()~ncil. ma~ Masoi~: Not tonight. Cr.)l.tllc:ilt~oman BLmle~': We reall~ work~d hard on ti,at one. I do,,'t think so. r:,.~u~,~:.S]ma], Woi"kman: Hove [o adjourn. i'i;..yor chmio]: t4re cn~'t take any act.[o~ on this anyway other than the discussion ,.~.:'v¢ l~ac{ and I.o ~,;ork ~ith that accordinglF. C~n~:.L].¢,om~n O'L~;~.tcr~ ~ second the adjournment motion. Councilman Workman ,moved, Councilwoman Oimler seconded to adjourn the meeting. voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at g:45 . Sul~mi.~t.e(I I')y DOll Ashworth EJfy Han,.~ger Prepared by Nan. Opheim 4O