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1992 03 09CHANHASSEN CZTY COUNCZL REGULAR MEETZNG MARCH 9, 1992 Mayor Chmiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag led by the Brownie Troop. MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilman Mason, Councilman Workman, Councilman Wing and Counci. lwoman O[mIer STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Elliott Knetsch, Charles Folch, Todd Gerhardt, Todd Hoffman, Paul Krauss, and Sharmin Al-Jaff APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Workman seconded to approve the agenda as amended by Mayor Chmiel to add under Council presentations Youth Art Month, District 112. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: PROCLAMATION O~C~d~IXG MAJ~CH 0-~4, 1992 09 GIRL SCOUT WEEK. Mayor Chmlel: The next item is something that's really sort of neat for us to see today. On March 12th of this year it's going to be the Girl Scouts of the Unlted States of America's celebrating thelr 80th years of preparing girls to meet the challenges in our every changing society. That's the reason we have all these smlllng faces rlght here in front of us. They all look so happy. And with that I would also like to read a proclamation, or I should say a resolution declaring March 8th thru the 14th, 1992 as Girl Scout Week. Whereas on March 12, 1992 Girl Scouts of the United States of America celebrates 80 years of helping glrls grow into confident and resoureful adults; and Whereas, GiK1 Scouts of the USA, 3 million strong is the largest non-profit organization for girls in the world; and Whereas, the Greater Minneapolis Girl Scout Counc11 coordinates activities for more than 23,000 girls in an 8 county area, and Whereas, Girl Scoutlng reaches out to glrls of dlverse culture, herltage including Asian, Hispanic, African American and Natlve American; and Whereas, Girl Scoutlng provldes an environment where glrls can enjoy nature, learn to work together and galn leadership skills; and Whereas, Girl Scouts helping girls agaln gain self esteem to make the right cholces in their personal lives and their careers; and Whereas, Girl Scouting helps girls become outstanding cltizens of our community; Now Therefore, I, Donald J. Chmlel, the Mayor of the city of Chanhassen do hereby proclaim the week of March 8-14, 1992 to be Girl Scout Week. Passed and adopted by the Chanhassen Clty Council thls 9th day of March, 1992. Congratulations. Glrl Scout Leader: We colored in a special banner for you to see because this is the 80th anniversary of Girl Scouting. And we thank you for letting us come tonight... Mayor Chmiel: I just want to say that it's really a pleasure to see these girls as they're standing here and they've got those smiles on their faces. They look as though they're golng to be our leaders in the upcomlng years. Thank you again for coming. City Council Hooting ,-Ha;'ch 9, 1992 Resolution ~92-31: Mayor Chmiel moved, Councilman Mason seconded a proclamation declaring March 8-14, 1992 as Girl Scout Week. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. CONSENT AGENDA; Councilman Workman moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations: a. Approval of Accounts. b. Approval of Minutes. d. Resolution ~92-3Z: Resolution Approving Historic Preservation Trust Agreement. Subdivision of 2.107 Acres into Two Lots, 915 Pleasant View Road, Edwards/ Vogel Subdivision, Scott Edwards and Davld Vogel. f. Resolution ~92-33: Authorize Readvertisement for Bids for Market Square S~orm Sewer Project No. 90-13. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: UPDATE ON SOUTHWEST METRO TRANSIT, DIANE HARBERTS. Hayer Chmiel: Out' next item on the Southwesl Hetro Transi~ is not going to be here and thls is golng to be tabled unt11 March 23rd. Our next meeting. Councilman Workman moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to table this item until the March 23, 1992 City Council meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Conrad Fiskness: Is this...Vlsitor Presentation? Mayer Chmiel: Yes. If you'd like to do something, I'd be more than happy to have you to do that Conrad. Conrad Fiskness: 30 seconds, if I may impose on your time. Conrad Fiskness from the Riley-Purgatory.-Bluff Creek Watershed District. I just wanted to come by and explaln an 1rem to you folks. As you're probably aware, we've been working with your staff with regard [o an LCMR proposal for Bluff Creek. I just wanted to explaln to you why this happened to come about with such what seemingly incredible shor[ amoun[ or ti. ll,,~ .'~nd [h,x['s exactly the way it came to us. At our February meeting a gentleman appeared before us and sald that he had been made aware just withln about a week before that of an opportunity to apply for LCMR funds 'for that area. He happens to be, a gentleman by the name of Eric Roth. He has a long time interest in that area. He had done some preliminary work. He brought it lnto us and he says you have, this ls on Wednesday nlght at about 9:00. He says you have until 4:00 Friday afternoon to have this proposal in and he says you look like you'd be the kind of an organization that might be able to be the sponsor. ~e discussed it and we decided that there was enough City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 money involved, even though it was a long shot. We understand there are 900 applicants, that it was still worth getting Chanhassen, if we could help them, on the record anyway as being an applicant. The proposal that was whipped together, and we made it within the 44 hours that we had at our disposal, ls for a, and maybe you have seen copies of that proposal. I'm not sure but there was included $5.3 million for land acquisition, $200,000.00 for planning and $100,000.00 for a demonstration area. I don't know what our chances are. They're probably too sllm and none but we didn't want to be the ones that would stand, someone would be able to say that well if they had done something we mlght have had a chance at it. So we plowed ahead. We've done some work with your staff. With Paul Krauss. Some discussions. We can't tell you a whole lot about what this is about. There are some other people that have done some of the early preliminary work and they are continuing to do some. We don't have a whole lot of money to spend on a lot of preliminary work either at this juncture not having had any opportunity to plan our budget for it. My understanding at this point is, that there will be a first cut made as to who survives. If this proposal makes that first cut, then we would propose that we would work it out so that we could spend considerable time working with Paul and anybody else from the City that would be appropriate and probably any work done prior to that time could wind up being an exercise in futility and spending of taxpayers money. But we did want to let you know that we weren't trying to go around you. We weren't trying to do anything of the sort. We just wanted to, as long as someone had come to us with this idea and it might have even a slim chance, we'd pick up the ball and carry it to the next step and so there'd be at least available an opportunity for you. That's all. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Appreciate it. PUBLIC HEARZNG: SUPPLEtlENT REPORT TO FE~SIBIE~TY STUO¥ FOR WEST 78TH STREET DETACHHENT ZHPROVEHENT PROJECT 9g-3 (FORtIERLY PROJECT 87-2). Public Present: Name Address Jim Ovorak Dennis Eyler Wilmer Molnau Charlie James Brian Burdick Richard Brose Doug Kunin Strgar-Roscoe-Fausch Strgar-Roscoe-Fausch 8541 Audubon Road 6640 Shady Oak Road, Eden Pralrle 426 Lake Street, Excelsior 8575 Kandla Road, Waconla £ckankar Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. Our project consultant engineer, Mr. Jim Dvorak is here tonight to provide a presentation to initiate the public hearing. We also have his associate Dennis Eyler of SRF to provide answers to any more detailed questions on the traffic analysis. The study that was recently completed. Jim Dvorak: Like Charles and the Mayor have indicated, this is a public hearing for Project 92-3 which is this long awaited detachment of West 78th Street just east of downtown. West of the central business district. The project as we have approached this considers West 78th between Kerber and Powers Blvd. and City Council Meeting - Marcl, 9, 1992 also Powers Blvd. frof, that point where MnDot...construction in the spring, north approximately 1,500 feet. Sections that we envision for ?8th and Powers are basically a four lane divided roadway. Four lanes providing two lanes in each direction witl, a median in the middle. The median would then be narrowed at points where a left turn needs to be developed for access into the individual p,~rc~ls along the road. These two sections show this. The upper one showing the full 18 foot median. The lower one as can see shows a smaller median with a loft turn lane where the 18 foot median... This figure shows the actual improvements that are proposed starting with the sanitary sewer, uatermain. The water,,,zin and sanitary sewer will be extended along ~est ?8th where needed to provide service to the adjoining parcels, mainly in the westerly end in this ~trea ar, d then some service in here and most of the other parcels are previously served by utilities that are in existing West ?8th. Storm sewer, the area is b,zsically drains from east/west and ue are perpetuating that drainage pattern bringing the water down ~est ?8th into a treatment pond in this area and then draining into a protected wetland north of the future frontage road extension to the west. In addition to street improvements, we've also proposed sidewalks on bo(h sides of ~est ?8th. North and south as well as a trail extension on Powers to the next intersection. ~lso, examined was the possibility of installing signals into this project. The signals will be required when a certain amount of development takes place in the city .... the cost of the signals in but until that development takes place, the signals will not be necessary or warranted. ht the very least we will be installing conduit and...to facilitate the future signal construction. In addition to the street and utility improvements, we're also proposing some landscaping. ~s graphically illustrated here. I say graphically because ~ know that this shows a large number of trees abutting the roadway. This is a schematic or graphic. It is not intended to show the number ~f trees. ~e also indicated that [here will be some type of street lighting system along here. Here again this is a graphic. ~t is not intended to show the number of street lights but only that there is the intent here to light the roadway. In the median themselves, in the areas where there are turn lanes, because of the rJght-of~-way that's previously been dedicated, the median adjacent to the turn lanes is only 6 feet. In that area is not a wide enough or practical to plant so we would propose that that be some type of a hard surface. Either a concrete or some type of a decorative paver. That type of thing. ~n the uiden areas which would be in this area here and here, there is the opportunity to do some type of landscaping treatment. Small trees. Shurbs. That type of thing. The other thing we want to avoid is any sight distance problems that would be associated with planting and landscaping in areas where you need to see to enter on and off ~est ?8th. The estimated cost of the project, we estimate that the ~est ?Sth portion will cost approximately $1.3 million. Of that about $970,000.00 is actual construc[ion cost. Of the attitives, the engineering, legal and administrative that type of thing being about $240,000.00. Powers Blvd. about $451,000.00 construction costs with the attitive being $1~0,000.00 for a total cost $~12,000.00. Total cost for both segments abou[ $1.9 million dollars. Funding for this, the abutting properties that benefit from the improvement proposed to be assessed. The first column here shows an estimate of what ue have come up with for assessment. It should be noted that these are only estimates and that the final assessment amount will be determined when the project is constructed and final construction costs and engineering costs are known. Grading the paving signals and lighting, assessments of about $270,000.00. Storm sewer and drainage, $109,000.00. Sanitary and sewer, watermain together about $75,000.00 for a total proposed City Council Meeting - March assessment of about $450,000.00. The balance, we have under the general obligation column will be funded by the city in whatever funding mechanism they have available. We also have an individual breakdown by parcel of what we estimate or what the estimated assessment would be. I have additional copies... if anybody's interested in having a copy for their use. I'll be happy to answer any questions or address any concerns that people may have. Mayor Chmiel: Very good. This is again, I'd like to mention a public hearing. What I'd like to do is, if you have a question, come forward to the podium. State your name and your address. Then if you have a question, we can have those questions answered. Wilmer, did you want to ask a question? Wilmer Molnau: Well it was just a little bit. Do I have to get up there? I'm kind of shy. Mayor Chmiel: Would you please. Wilmer Nolnau: I'm a little bashful. Mayor Chmiel: I know you are. But you're such a good looking guy. Wilmer Molnau: I'm Willy Molnau. I live on Audubon Road. This landscaping, will that lnclude the car wash system too like we have for half of it now? Every time we come to town we got to go home and wash our car because a little breeze, we've got a 3 block car wash in town now and if we contlnue thls, well maybe we'll get the car wash from the other side on the way home. Mayor Chmiel: Figure if ue go up one side and come back the other way we might get it accomplished. You're right. Tom, did you want to say something? Councilman Workman: Well that's a good question. And if few of you know, Wllly has been voted Citizen of the Year. I wanted to bring that up, by the Chamber. But we were talking about that because Todd, isn't the HRA picklng up or subsidizing the landscaping portion of this to an extent. Aren't the decisions as to how much shrubbery, etc. are being left to the HRA uhlch ls at least myself and the Mayor and we're keeping an eye and that kind of comment in mind when ue make practical decisions in that corner about where to put shrubbery and sprinkler systems. Wilmer Molnau: What I really wanted to know was in the middle, the way it looks here, there's nothing unless I can't see well but up here there's shrubbery in the middle of the street. Is that golng to continue all the way is is what I'm really trying to say? Councilman Workman: Well, and what I'm trying to say is I think we're learning from our mistakes. And that being a curve, we learn that down on the other end around the Dinner Theatre that it makes for a little more dlffloult visibility with the brush. The shrubbery that we had there. Wilmer Molnau: Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Maybe you can answer that question fully. cit. y Coun¢;Jl l'l~..,.eting --I'larch 9, .t99~. 3ira l)vorak: I guess first of all I'd like to poiT'lt out [hat there are three areas that are wide enough in this plan that would enable some type of landscapirlg to be done in the aP. dian... We will be very sensitive to the issue of sigh[ distance and that type of thing ~hen ~e actually get into the final design of landscaping the roadway. liayo;- Chmiei: Is there anyone else? This is a public hearing. If anyone has a))y specirJ, c concerns, now's your time to come up. Charlie .]ames: The 6itl Scouts are a h,'~'r-d ac[ to follow. ~y name is Chat'lie 3a,l,CS. I'm with the T.F. James Company. I'd like to thank you all for this opportunity to speak. I promise to be as brief as .T. cai]. I believe it's an unfortunate fact that [he proposed street was redesigned without consultation or input from, I ~ant to say the adjoining property ouners .... with Brian but at ].east it was designed without any ]',otice or consultation to me. I'm not cel'[ainly suggesting any m, alioiousm]ess here or army conspiracy theory o]' anything. I',m just sayi],9 tlmat's the way it is. That's the way it ~as. Z ~as noL asked to con[ribttte any ideas and concerns and I am not privy to what criteria and wha[ assumptions ~er'e utilized in developing this plan. I do know That this pla~t does r,o( take into consideratior, the pre~ious actions of the City Council nor is il consistent with [he development agreement [hat ~as executed between tl~e City and ~,y firm. Some of this is ancient history so for the benefit of you who were not here in 1988, Z would like to take just a fe~ mi[~utes to bring you up to speed. I do see some new faces here tonight. ~hen ~e initially bought what I guess everybody refers to as the Brose property, the coml,rehensive plan for Chanhassen at that time showed the property pretty much divided in half on an east/west line with multi.-family to the north and commercial, do~¢ntow~] commercial, or Z should say genera] business to the south. ~r,d ever, at that time the 78th Street detachment was contemplated. I don't kno~ hell long sobs o¢ you have lived in Chanhassen but where the intersection is now, there used to be kind of a pond Ptnd marsh and cat[ail area. So I think there was the foresight that that intersection ~ould have to be moved in the future and also to swing it around what was in a pond. So when we came in 3 or 4 years ago with our plans, everything that we came in with arid suggested and proposed was in exact conformity with your comprehensive plan. ~nd ~e worked ~ith your s[aff at that time and your consultants at that time and for a continuing period of 3 years. ~nd at that time Nr. Burdick was platting or maybe it ~as replatting his ].and to the south. Zn designing the new street we tried (o match our driveways ~ith ~r. Burdick's lot lines. I'd like to just show an ;.].[ustratio~ here if Z may. The parcel of land that Z o~n is this, everything south of this green line here. This is ~est 78th Street do~n here as it currently travels and here's Kerber. fhi~ is Po~ers Blvd.. This drawing was do~e on Hatch 27, 1987. ~lmost 4 years ago. ~]d ~e met ~ith ~nDot and the staff ~t that tif, e and Z see my consultant who's here on another matter this eve~,ing, 3ira Hill. ~nd ~e ~orked with BR~ and lots of thought went into the radius of the tuPns and of [he curves give~] the speeds and this sort of thing. ~t that time it ~as contemplated there would be an 80 foot right--off,ay ~hich ~e do,,a(ed or dedicated. Rnd it was proposed that [hef'e woutd be no medians in this area. There were provisiol]s for sidewalks and landscaping and that sort of thing but they ~eren'[ going [o con[in,to some of the stuff that was done down'towel because already at that time I guess there was some problems developing wi[h the street being narro~ in the wintertime or ~hatever. But in any e~ent, i.n ~)orking ~ith your staff and ~ith BRa, the previous consultants on this City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 detachment, we were looklng at the lssue of access and I see Brian Burdlck ls here tonight. Maybe he can help me on this but about the tlme that me mere planning the dlvision of thls property, the Burdlcks were either dlviding or redividing thelr property and that's why there's these sets of lines. So what we tried to accomplish, the flrst crlteria we were told ls that an access back to be back 300 feet from Powers and that's what was provided here. And we agreed that wherever posslble we would put a drlveway on a lot 11ne so that two parcels would share a driveway. And in the development agreement and what was passed by the City Councll was that there would be 4 driveway entrances along West 78th Street. 611 those would be full turn movements. There were no medians contemplated plus what we dld ls I offered to donate this area in here and we replatted a little outlot because we didn't know what the exact geometrlcs were going to be and thls was a little Outlot A down here and the idea was to get the Burdick's access coming back th£s way essentially at the same polnt back as we were. Plus then what we did is we sald okay, we'll try to 11ne our driveway entrances up wherever the Burdick's have a lot line. So these points here, here's the lot 11ne of the Burdick's and here's the lot 11ne so in the plan that was developed there was to be a full turn movement here, here and I should say that thls plan does not show how land was ultimately plotted. There was 4 lots and the first 2 lots shared this driveway. The next 2 lots shared a common driveway. Then essentially there was a drlveway for this tract here. And as I say, the intent of all of that was that they not only lined up wlth the way that the Burdick's at that time were plattlng thelr property...but they ended up being precisely the area in which we platted...So we got a plat now and developed agreement that was dependent on shared driveway locations at these points and we felt that was a signif£cant concession at that polnt to have these large tracts of land share a slngle full turn movement. And ultimately the development agreements said that there'd be 4 driveways. There'd be 300 feet from Hwy 17. There'd be no access for this lot right here from Hwy 17 and the street plans did not contemplate a dividied or raised median. Also at that time we recelved approval from the Clty Councll and the Planning Commission for a project that was dependent on the constructure of th£s detached road and fortunately I think primarily due to scheduling delays at MnDot, that detachment didn't get built when it should and I guess we all missed our estimates on that. The 1dew was that the detachment would be done in conjunction with TH $ and I'm sure you all now TH 5 was just pushed back and pushed back and pushed back. Maybe I'll just hold these up. Thls was the plans that were previously done by BRa and this is CR 17 here. I highlighted in yellow where the driveway entrances were that were approved at that tlme. I've also shown on here in purple where the lot lines are of the platted land. So here you see that we have a drlveway here 300 feet back from the intersection and the property 11ne of the platted lot goes right down the center of that driveway. There's no driveway at thls point and then these two lots'share this drlveway whlch is also serves Mr. Burdick's parcel here across the street and ours as well. And that property 11ne is in the center of that driveway and when we come down here agaln, this driveway entrance was determined by Mr. Burdick's property line on this slde of the street so we agreed to put our drlveway across from that. And if we go a little bit further east towards downtown, again Mr. Burdick had a property 11ne here and so we agreed to place our driveway entrance across from that anticipating that that would be the logical place in the future for a business drlveway entrance. Z guess the problem that I have wlth the plan as it's been submitted tonight is that leaves us with 3 lots, I guess you'll have to refer to your small drawlng there. I don't know if the lots. It leaves us City Council ~ee~i~9 -- March 9, 199Z wJt[, 3 lots esse~tially that just become orphans... Originally we had a full turf, ~o~,ement I~er'e that was 300 feet back from the intersection, which was the reqLtired desicjn standard we were told and that was shared on this side of the street and thi.'; side of the street. We all said there was no entrance at [his point. There was an entrance at this point. And that was supposed to be shared by ~hese two lots with the services into tl~is lot would come in and touch. It was to the exact location, J f yoml draw this line down was to hit right there on these two lot lines on Hr. Burdick's property. The other entrances that we had wa:re on this lot line here and this lot line here. $o a lot of thought vent into this and now all of a sudden you end up with a situation here that I just found out about where I've got 3 lots up here that are orphan lots that you can't get [o from I~ere. You can come from the north. You can come from the south. You can come from the west. You can't get into these lots and that, in my opinion, 'm-eal].y changes the use of these lots. ~nd I guess we worked with sLaff here 'For 3 years or, this and I met with staff this morning and expressed by concerns ,and of course it was too late to come up with anything, for us to work anythJ.~g out for this evening. But I have indicated to staff that would holI.~ solve this problem and I'd be willing to even increase the amount of dedication of the 'right-of-way here if that would help us get ~ore tur~ lanes jr, here. I want to explain that out here there's kind of a hole in this ,~r'e,~ and we had everythi~ all set up to go here. Well this is going to be a temporary i-etaining area and Jim had designed everything so that we could build and then '[he City could figure out this storm sewer later and it is our intent, based on ~1~.'. c,:z]_culations thai were done by 3ames R. Hill, they said don't grade this yet because this will balance out and you'll fill this hole when it's no longer needed in here. When the storm sewer system gets developed. $o I just wanted to ~.e].l you all that the property out there's going to look a lot better in the future when the storm sewer goes in than it does right now. We've had to do some temporary measures out there. I guess there's a lot of other points I could go into but I'll try to wind this up for you. When you leave tonight, I'd encourage all of you to drive downtowr~ on your street going down towards Pauly's and ~hat way and you'll see that every business dou~town is literally located on ~ corner with full access. T.f you'll l~otice the length of the buildings from thai little strip center where Brooks is, they're oi~ a corner so they have a f~.~ll turn movement. Medica] Clinic. You go on the other side of the street, tl~e motel. Every business downtown. The lots are wide enough or whatever. The street was designed with those businesses in mind. They all have full access and we're being denied that out here. $o I'm being asked from this feasibility report to pay $372,837.00 J.r, assessments in addition to the $129,885.00 in assessments that are already incurred on the property. $228,000.00 of this half a million dollars is for the street. I don't feel that the way the street is designed that it's in our best interest to spend that kind of money. So I guess for all the reasons that I've tried to ennumerate here this evening, ~ guess I would ask that [his feasibilty study be tabled until such time as the access [sSLies can be resolved with the staff and your consulting engineers. We have labored in good faith for 3 years on this assuming that things were going to be one way and this is sort of a bottom of the 9th inning change for us so thank you very much. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. 2 outs and 2 strikes and 3 balls. [~on Ashworth: Do you wish to have me respond? City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Maybe I'd like, I asked Don if he would proably respond to some of this as well because he's aware as to most of the things that have transpired in that particular area. Don. Don Ashworth: Tabling action is probably a good idea. But to go back a little bit in hlstory, after the completion of the downtown and the amount of trafflc we were looklng at with the presentation of what became known as Market Square Development, a number of good questions were put out on the table in terms of will this roadway handle the volume of traffic that's anticipated for the downtown, and wlll the existlng street function? In that process we employed Strgar and asked them those questions. It was their position that the street as it had been lald out by BRW using the then current traffic projections would not function. And in fact that the divided condition should be strongly considered and that a portion of the existlng roadway, at least as it would go by the Market Square development, should be widened in that area as well. After completion of the Strgar analysis, which has been wlthin let's say the last 6 months, we have attempted a number of sessions to get public input. We went back to the Chamber. We dld Alive at 5. Each one of those sessions we brought Strgar in attempting to present their findings and why it would appears as though that a change in the plans would be necessary. I again apologize if Mr. James was not a part of those but there wasn't any conscience decision not to lnclude them. In fact just the opposlte by going back to businesses we were trying to take and get their input. If we could take but just a moment to review why Strgar had come back with the recommendations that they had in regards to the roadway, I think that that would be helpful. Before I ask Denny Eyler to do that, we should note that not all of the businesses wlthin the downtown have the turning points that Charlie had referred to. I think the Medical Cllnic ls an example where you go down to the Kenny's area and come in or adjacent to the Riveria but in either case there's cross or reoiprocal easements that exlst allowlng them to gain that access. In that particular area we're talking about a right-in?right-out for their facility. Very much as the Rlveria has. If you want to approach the Riveria from the westerly slde, you're actually going through a reciprocal easement across the Brooks property. And so I don't thlnk that right out driveways have been ruled out of thls project whlch may help the very end lot. And I don't think that we have ruled out, and in fact I think we would strongly encourage again reciprocal easements that Mr. James would literally put against himself or against his own property to gain access. Wlth that Dennis, could you go through your recommendation to the HRA from 2 or 3 months ago? Dennis Eyler: Yes Don. When we looked at the traffic numbers that were forecasted with the proposed development along West 78th Street, and some of the problems that existed along the pre-construction courses in...we came to the conclusion, and this is also based on experience with similar roadways in other areas. Not just ours but experience gained by trafflc engineers throughout the country, that when you get volumes of this nature with the large number of turns, that a 5 lane roadway of some sort would be much better than a 4 lane undivided roadway. And we looked at a couple of options with the $ lane roadway and I'll have to dig through my transparencies here and see if I can. This ls kind of a typical section that shows what's out there today on the eastern end of the 48 foot roadway and in some areas are a left turn lane leavlng you wlth a narrow median similiar to what Jlm was talking about earlier and we proposed a widenlng that would be in a range of 72 to 78 feet, depending on what the median City cour, c~t Ne.~til'~g - Harcll 9~ 1992 treatment would be and the existing right-of-way that's been platted is 80 feet. .so thai just barely fits within the existing right-of--way that's been platted. I've got another slide here that shows more of a top down view of the different...we looked at. Perhaps I didn't bring that along with me. We did look at the 5 lane undiv.ided roadway and the center left turn... Starting with the 2 lane roadway ~nd then going to the 3 lane roadway. Essentially what you have in the easter, end of ?Sth Street today...just being painted and this is actually a raised median... Alternative to that would have been a 3 lane undivided roadway wlth two way left turn lanes. What was originally proposed were the 4 lane roadway and the problem with the 4 lane roadway is that when you have a lot of left turns, whlch you wlll have with a lot of driveways and a lot of access points, you virtually lose the use of the inside lane, plus you have the problem that if you do have 11ned up driveways, and 11nlng up the driveways irs a good overall feature, you would have left turns being made simultaneously in the two driveways a,d the vlew of oncomlng trafflc from one left turn would block off the other left turn. So the obvious solutlon to that is to go to a 5 lane roadway so you can get 'the left turns facing each other and they can see by and find gaps in ongoing traffic. The alternative we looked at there were 5 lanes urldlvided or 5 la,es dlvided with the ralsed medlan. And natlonal accident statistics prove ~hat this design is saf~.;r than this and the 5 lane with a ralsed median is much safer than that. So staff's recommendation was that we look at a 5 lane option. At that time we were given some direction as far as the ~ccess locatlon but it was our understanding that that wouldn't be decided. Alld we did take a look at what it would take to provlde additional ~tr;c~ss pelt, ts, at least on kind of a, lnformal basls. Including the ldea of providing an access point here and we had some problems with the center lane. We said we were golng to try to provlde a full access at thls location, keeplng the same section wllhin f. he 80 feet right-of-way. We would be forced to try to .qet .nnd to e,d ].eft turn lanes in 300 feet. Well allowlng for even a 5 to 1 taper in the middle, that would mean that you'd have only about 100 foot turn lanes length on each end available for separate turn lanes in that scenario. The 100 foot [urn lar, e would not be adequate to handle the left turn out onto Powers wlth the full development. The only alternative would be to look at essentially a & lane sectiorl in here where you'd have a left turn lane for ~.at~tbound and left turn lane for westbound side by slde. Now that had some ramifications for rlght--of.-way because now you're talking about a roadway that's over 80 feet wlde and exceeds the exlsting right-of-way and then there's a question of how you tr'ansitlon that back into this area. That we were not directed to develop that any further a[ that time. As far as making U turns and getting lnto properties that would not have median openings, by having the 2 lanes in each direction plus the turn slots, the roadway would be wlde enough for automobiles to make U turns. Unlike the existing roadway that's on the east end of 78th Street. There ls only one lane to turn 1rite. There's not qulte e~lough width there to make U turns. U turns at intersections are legal in Minnesota unless signed otherwise. Wlth that I thlnk I'll answer any quest ions. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Dennis Eyler: ...but they're not free. I mean there's golng to have to be some trade offs for those... There's also issues about developing the landscaping. 10 City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 Hayor Chmiel: One of the questions that I have immediately is, when we looked at this, did.we review any of the commitments that we had done previously such as Hr. James has brought out back in '87 and '887 Dennis Eyler: The direction ue were given by staff was not that specific. I guess that's the way I look at it. I wasn't part of the meeting that was held this morning so, I've been under the weather and kind of in and out of the office. I wouldn't say I drug myself out of bed to come here tonight but I've felt better, let's put it that way. $o I wasn't at this morning's meeting so I can't speak to what was discussed there. Mayor Chmiel: With the 5 lanes, would that be sufficient as far as the road right-of-way with the 80 feet? Would that be workable within that 80 feet? The 5 lanes. Dennis Eyler: It is with the stipulation that the sidewalks and the landscaping items are put on some sort of easement rather than in...right-of-uay. The roadway ltself takes up virtually all of the 80 feet... Mayor Chmiel: I think Mr. James indicated too that he'd be willing to provide some additional right-of-way. I guess my own feellng ls rlght now ls I'd like to have us, at least my opinion is to sit down with staff and Nr. James and reach a conclusion as to what can be done and what can't be done. My only concerns are is to keep it within the cost frames that we're already looking and as we're looking rlght now at approximately $1,920,000.00 totally for the general obligation amount as well as the assessable amounts. And with that I'l throw it open. Ursula. Councilwoman Dimler: I guess my question was too that I would like to see the Burdick's involved in that in the fact that maybe their, I wondered if their property lines on those lots are st111 valld or if they have been final plotted. Brian Burdick: Our property lines there are as they're shown on the drawing in flnal plat. Councilwoman Dimler: Those are final? Brian Burdick: Yes. Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. And how about Mr. James, are your's final too? Charlie James: They're in final plat...as far as the developer... Councilwoman Dimler: Okay, so there's not much room for movement there? Charlie James: I could give you a little insight on that if you'd like. I don't want to belabor this but one of the things that we were suggesting is that originally this driveway that we had here was going to be in this point. Under thls plan lt's moved it down and so one of the thlngs ue could do is we could probably live with this and I'm sure, well I can't speak for Brian and his father but my thought was that when I saw a ruler today, if we just extended this lot line down to here instead of breaking it like that, it would come to the center 11ke of the driveway. And Don, I have to take a 11ttle bit at lssue ll CiLy COLtnCiJ. Meetirlg ..-March 9, 1992 with you Z',~ afraid. The f.~r'st .l: ever heard about this was I 9ct this faxed to m'.; and wh{:r, I saw [hat thi:s w~s in the works and so I wrote correspondence to t. he city here an(] there was no come to a meeting of- no do anything. There was ~lc, ar~nouncement about anything. I wrote a letter Lo the city and attached all these exhib.i, ts dnd explained what had happened in the past and on and on and on al~d so what I got back was a drawing. Anyway Z got back a drawing that basJ. ually f'einstated what we have before and showed the double turn lanes. Dow,low~, if you look a[ tho Riveriu, we did try to share these driveways so whe~] you 9ct, you've got like the Medical Clinic here and here's a parking lot .'.t,d then here.'s uha[ is it, Kollny'r-; over' here and then... The point is that these people call make full [urn movements into, at these points and I guess that'~ what we we'r-c trying to accomplish down here too by sharing the driveways. I guess the only thin9 that might come up in the future that I'd like to just make the Con,oil aware oF at tl~is point .is I'm perfectly willing to increase the w.[dth of the 'right-of-way but I want to explain one other constraint that we've got. The s~nd kind of shifted under us again here. Whe, we did our grading pla'n there, there vas a 50 foot setback between commercial and residential and mgm.tlr [here was I think a 50 foot setback between the multi-family and com~ercial. $o what we did was when we developed our grading plan, we put the property line in tl~e middle of the slope figuring we could utilize that green area. So when you were looking at [he property from the front you'd see the front of the:~e buildings and behind it you'd see a 100 foot wide swath of green ~nd then up above that would be the multi--family. So I guess when the Super America store wellt in on TH 7 and TH 41, tm]ere was some objection or something .~:o they changed the setback rilles Row. Yeah. So if we increase '[he r&ght-of~ t~,'ty here, 'i:h;.. only prol)J, em that T. might have is meeting some of these setback i~O,lLtir'ements from '[he street because these lots could get too narrow. That's why ~'1]. dedicate, eitl~er dedica~.e tho righr..-of-way znd we have some kind of an ~greement about ].ooking at these setback things when we come in with a specific propos~l, or else we could do it in the form of an easement so that I get credi( out to the property line. Do you follow me? That's the only Z guess drawback of cre~t~l~g additional r~ght-of-.-way. But Z guess Z'd just tike (he opportunity to work w~th staff on th~s. Z don't want [o see anybody get hurt out here. Z don't w~n[ to se~¢ 8ny acc.[del~ts. Z want this to be a nice entrance to 6hanhasse,, just l.ike %'m sure you do. ~'d just like the chance to work with you on J.t. Councilwoman Dimler: Thank you. Also I wanted to ask Paul, that lowland there, is that going to be considered a ~etland and do we need to app].y all that stuff ~e've been ta].kif~g about to that particular area? It's a utility so it would not be? So t l~ere won't be any problems for Mr. James as far as development · t here? Paul Krauss: I'm not aware of how that was raised when Charlie came in 3-4 years ago but. we'd have to look into that. There's no new ones. There's no new issues being generated. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, is there any other discussion? CounciJ. woma~] Dimler: My last question was, when we redo this here, there's 9sing to be an old segment of ~est ?Sth Street that's going to be left. Zs there any plans to upgrade that or beautify that or do anything wlth that at al.l? This plan doesn't seem to address ~hat. 12 City Council Meeting - March 9, 199~ Charles Folch: The...has been discussed previously amongst the property owners that it was their desire to see or to have that existing right-of-way vacated such that part of it wlll be constructed...that's there now. Given that the access off of CR 17 will likely be the right-in/right-out movement. Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. So that's no longer a city street then or that segment will be? Charles Folch: At such time that the vacation takes place. Councilwoman Oimler: Okay. And I guess then my comment would be that I think that Mr. James' appears to have worked really hard wlth the former city staff and present staff as well and also with the neighboring property in trying to come up wlth what's falr to all and I thlnk I would favor tabling thls. But I also would like to see that the Burdlck's are included in the negotiations if it affects them in any way. Mayor Chmiel: Richard, do you have any comments? Councilman Wing: I think the entlre detachment proposal really isn't ready for Council and I don't have anything to discuss. I'd like to see it redefined and reflned and then re-represented at a later date so I favor table also. Councilman Workman: No, I think we only have one option and that's to, I remember, the one thlng I remember is Charlie James belng very cooperative and this is kind of a shock to me that you don't know more about it and so if nobody apologizes to you tonight for anything else, I'll do so. This detachment has been a lot of fun and 4 years I'll be on the Council, it will probably be around 4 more. Councilman Mason: It sounds like it needs to be tabled. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Can I have a motion to have this tabled and brought back to Councll at the next meeting? Is there an urgency with this because of TH $ construction Charles? Charles Folch: No. The time line we're working with right now is basically... Mayor Chmiel: Okay. So we have the time. Councilwoman Dimler: I move tabling. Councilman Workman: Second. Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Workman seconded to table the pi~blic hearing on the supplemental report to the feasibility study for West 78th Street Detachment Improvement Project 92-3. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. 13 Cj.t'/ Count:J[ Mee. tJ.~g - Har(;h ~, 1992 PUBLIC HEARING: FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR TRUNK UTILITY IHPROVEHENTS TO THE UPPER BLUFF CREEK AREA; AUTHORIZE PREPARATION OF PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS, ~ROJECT NO, 91-17. Public Present: Name Address Rorlald & Carol Entinger l.lenry Wrase Conrad Fisknoss A1 Klingelhu[z Earl Halasek Wilmer Molnau Jam~s R. Hii1 ~elty & Larry VanOeVeire Michael Klingelhutz Gary Harkey Hans Hagen Doug Barinsky Oon Patton Tom & Marion Michel Dave Stockdale 8851 Audubon Road 8175 Hazeltine Blvd. 8033 Cheyenne Avenue 8600 Great PlaJns Blvd. 8GLO Galpin Blvd. 854I Audubon Road 2400 CR 42, Burnsville 4980 CR iOE, Chaska 8601 Great Plains Blvd. 3471 W. 173rd, Jordan 941 Hillwind Road, Minneapolis 8731 Audubon Lako Susan Hills West Partnership 8~41 Audubon Road 7210 Galpin Road Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor, members of the Councll. The project consultant engineer Mr. Bob Schunicht ~s here tonight to give a p~'esentation on the feasibility study. If there are those of you tonight that are here on this particulaT' item, we do have handouts that follow some of the information that ui. 1]. be prouj¢led on the o~erheads. If you raise you hands I can have Phil pass those out for you. Bob Schunicht; In 1991 the city of Chanhassen...2,800 acres of land to it's urban service area and much of this land is in the western part of the city between ~.yman Blvd. on the south, Audubon on the east and TH 41 on the west going Ul~ to this dovelopment... So at the time this was added, the city also authorized the study to take a look at the sanltary sewer and watermaln that were necessary to serve both ~hls area and the whole rest of the city. So the studies that were just recently completed dealt with 3 thlngs. Flrst of a11, was what ls the sanltary sewer and uatermain system... How much does it cost and how should we pay. And the answer to how should we pay...unlform assessment ci[ywide or...based on a ul~lform cltywide cos[. So those are the results of that overall study. Now at the same time the studies were done, the clty rec~:ived petitions for improvements for the southern portion of this new urban ~rea and basically that's what we're here to talk about tonight .... trunk sanitary sewer and watermain for the southern portion of that new urbanized area. So basJ. cally what we're looklng at is the area between Lyman Blvd. on the .~outh, TH 5 on the north, approxilnately Audubon Road' here and then going over to the western clty limits a].l the way over to the Arboretum. And the study area was initialed by a petition. And thi:s lightly shaded area in orange represents th~. property...55~ of the ].and mass in the project area that petitioned for improvenlents that we're going to be discussing tonight. Now taking a look at the sanitary sewer system, again we're looking at Lyman Blvd. on the south, TIt S, Audubon Road here and TH 41 over here. Tile main feature of the sanitary 14 City Council Heeting - Hatch 9, 1992 sewer system is their lift station located in the vicinity of Lyman Blvd. and Audubon Road. Basically that lift station will take the waste water from most of the western portion of the city of Chanhassen and pump it in a designated gravity sewer along Audubon. Gravity sewer along future Best Lake Drive into something called the existing Lake Ann sewer. SO the lift station is taking all the flow from the system that it brings to it, pumping it over to an existing system and flows down through Eden Prairie over across the river...treatment plant. So that's the sanitary sewer system. The watermain system again looking at this map which is a little bit different scale than...has to go a little bit further to the north, but here this to get you oriented. This is Lyman Blvd. on the south, TH 5 here, Galpin and TH 41. Existing well up here by Lake Ann. For the first phase of the watermain improvements, which is a watermain down in this area. I did neglect to mention, we were talking about sanitary sewers, this is...so for discussion purposes we divided it into two phases. Phase 1 being basically south of the rallroad and Phase 2 belng north of the railroad. I'd like to polnt out that that's an arbitrary phase line for discussion purposes. We can change that...but for discussion purposes tonlght, Phase i and Phase 2 are the railroad. Phase 1 of the watermain...to serve that Phase 1 area south of the railroad. As we get into Phase 2, then we have to brlng a 11ne from the existing...down Galpin and along the roadway system that you see in the area so Phase 2 watermain gets a 11ttle blt more expensive... Also I'd like to polnt out that the future reservoir shown at TH 41...development of the area. We looked at the cost of the improvements and if you see on your handout, and we have also a part of this...but basically we're looking at dividing into two phases the total sanltary sewer cost of $2.86 mi111on dollars. Watermaln about $2.37 million dollars of the total cost to about $5.2 million dollars. As I mentioned earller, the proposal, the census...citywlde assessment pollcy based on for trunk sanitary sewer, $g70.00 per residential equivalent unit and for the L~atermain... Looklng at how those assessments affect the property out there, agaln the brown or orange area is the project area. The sanitary sewer base map whlch is shown here. The proposal is to assess everybody in the pocket area with the exception of the recently platted large lot single family...shown on the prevlous sllde. And we've shown, as I mentioned, Phase 1. The Phase 1 and Phase 2 construction at it's present time is right now but Phase 1 improvements are very expensive. They got to put a 11ft station in to get the sanltary sewer all the way over to the Lake Ann trunk. The Phase 1 assessment boundary is including two pleces of property north of the railroad. One is being proposed by Hans Hagen on this property over here just east of the HcGlynn's property. $o thls ls the assessment boundary... One of the thlngs we took a look at ls green acres. Green acres being when a property's on green acres it means that it cannot be actively assessed for utillty improvements. If you take a look at green acres, you'll see some of the parcels have green acres on it. There's two of the parcels that petitioned for the improvements that have green acres on them. The Rod Grams property and the Hans Hagen property. If we take a look at the green acres and take a look at the revenue versus the cost withln thls area for Phase 1. If we assume that the properties that have petitioned for improvements come off of green acres, then we've got enough revenue wlthln 2~ of our projections to pay for the Phase 1 improvements. And then it would be similar things on Phase 2 because there's...green acres in Phase 2 so from looking at it and looking at the assessments and revenues based on these two properties comlng off wlth the development, that green acres should not have a significant affect on the city's ability to finance it. $o with that I'd like 15 City Counci.1 H.e;!til~g -. Ha'rch 9, 1992 Lo turn the hearing back to Mayor Chmiel 'for any questions from the Council or from ~he audience. Mayor' Chlniel: Very good. Anyone from the audience that would like to come forward and ind£cate your concerns. Please state your name and your address and what your question is. Marion Michel: I'm Marion Michel and I'm on 8941 Audubon Road. I didn't understand what he said about green acres exactly so I'm just going to go ahead with what I have planned to say. Okay? Alright, I come to appeal to some people that have roots and know what the feeling of roots are. Hy grandparents c.leared the property that I'm on and I was born there. After a time I came back and bought the place ~nd I also hope to appeal to people that have historic feelings to save some of the old beautiful homes around here which one I have. I hope to keep .i.( historical. I haven't done much inside. It still has the old sink, the old claw bathtub and windmill water. I know I'm supposed to role with the flow but I just don't want to. I hope someday, there will be no way I can come up with $22,000.00. I thought I was ready for this but I guess I'm not. Mayor Chmie].: That's alright. Just take your time. Marion Michel: If there's a deferment somehow where it only costs very little money, maybe I can do it. But I'm on a fixed income and I cannot. I hope that I can keep t hJ..~ place and possibly my grandson can come after me. They love it. They love tho fishing. They love Minnesota, even though they're from California. If you've driven by the place, it's on the end of Audubon and Lyman. If you're familiar with it. Tile shed is going to fall any time. But the house is still charming. I do not plan on making a bed and breakfast. I just wznt to keep it like it is. I couldn't possibly do it anyway, it's too costly. I hope, I do not want a new house. Somebody says that's simple, just go b~ild a new house. I don't want ,':~ new house. My only reason to be here in Minnesota is to live in this place and I hope I can stay there. As long as I can get out there and mow the lawn and plant my flowers and watch the trees grnu, ~t ~..-'.: 10'..-:-:,-:, T h,,I.r.,l to ~jiv;:' .it. up l'~i. I couldn't possibly hold 105 acres. I have lovey neighbors and I'm happy for that but for' me to put 10 houses on that property would positively it's historic charm and you would devour the house, which you are going to do with the other beautiful houses up on that road. What the others do is their business but I hate to even see them go. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Councilman Wing: Could I just clarify that? In every situation like this that I've been on this Council in the last yea;', these really haven't been an issue. We haven't forced development. We haven't forced sale. Residents such as thls we've, at least in my year on the Council we've given them a single assessment unt11 development. Is that what we're looking at here? Are we in that condiblon now, that situation now? In fact ~re her' concerns not? Oon Ashworth: I have to believe that there are a number of solutions available so we don't have to drive a lady like this off of her property. You're exactly right. We've not done that in the past and I know of no reason that we're going ~o start dolng it currently. Old you wish to? 16 City Council Meeting - March Mayor Chmiel: No, I think you probably explained it. Councilman Wing: So it might preclude some others that are concerned if we have these type of individual homeowners who are looklng at slngle assessments unt11 development time. Is that what your intent is Don Ashworth: Bob, would you go through the response to that question? Bob Schunicht: I'd just like, a couple things I'd like to mention about Mrs. Mltchell ls lt? Mayor Chmiel: Michel. Bob Schunicht: Is talking about as far as the...green acres so that's one thing. There are, the parcels that you mentioned...as far as single assessments. There are 11 of those that we can count on here. We can look at that fit in that category .... again we're talking about major property owners are asking for the improvements. They're not going to affect those other parcels, the small parcels... Again you're talking about, I mentioned that ue were within 2~. If you assess all those parcels, assessed all those parcels the uay...talked about, you'd be 2~ above the revenues...so the estimates are even that close so it doesn't have a major effect on the city... Boes that answer your question? Mayor Chmlel: Right. Being that it is green acres. Untll she develops her property, that's when that assessment becomes due. Councilwoman Oimler: Bob, just for clarification. The $22,450.00 is for all 5.1 acres right? 5.01. Bob 5chunicht: The way...take a look at each individual parcel. Determine what was wetland and what was buildable area and then assign that area to that and then Z thlnk...units per acres and that's the unlts that we talk about. Councilman Wing: But she's really looking at about $2,245.00 then? Bob $chunicht: That will be the full assessment, expected assessment for that property. Councilman Wing: $2,200.007 Bob $chunicht: Yeah. Councilwoman Dimler: So if we go with the one unit now, what would that be about? Bob Schunicht: That would be the $970.00 for sewer and $1,275.00 for water so about $2,200.00. Councilwoman Dimler: Oh okay. So it doesn't change. Mayor Chmlel: Yeah. That's right. 17 City Coulee:ii. Me~i:~.l~j ,.. i'iarc',h 9~ 1992 Wayne Bul~ga~'d: I'm I~ay~e Bongard a,d I'm neighbors 'to this ,ice lady. I have a couple collceFns. One is I live as uel.l along ~udubor, Road. I think it's a ~ of a plaoe to live. Why do ue have all these exemptions in that particular area? They're landouners. ~e've got 5 or 6, 5-10 acre parcels so on and so fol'th and tl,ey're going to assess all these landouners, myself included. ~e happen to I~a. ve 5 ac~'es or 8 acres or 10 acres and ue're going to get assessed. Gosh, somebocty's go.L~]g to pul ~0 homes on this or ~5 homes and you're 9o~n9 to be assessed 20--25-30-35-40,000 dollars. In my particular case, i['s going to be kind of an expe,sive developmer, t because they're going to have to push a house do~n. l'l~ey're goi.g to have to push a barn do~n. The barn building and wl~atever. That's okay. I'd be more than happy to let somebody do that. 6ome on up. Bri~g your dozers in but just ~rite the check in advance. I don't think that's going to happen. $ don't think any of these people bought that real e=~[~Le and that acreage with that in mind. However, if ~e've got a hungry developer, boy send bi,em up here. ~e'll negotiate that and we'll make it hal~pe~. ~nd then you guys can get 10 times $2,200.00-$2,300.00 in assessment for your sewer anti ~ater. But until that happens, you're going to have a tough time getti~g it up on that end of town. ~hat I'm concerned about as cell, why cio we have this exempt, this large exempt area over here? I think ~e've got 20--30-40 homes over' there. ~e've got a bunch of homes over here. They don't need sewer and ~ater because they've got a well? They've got a drainage system. They got ~hat. ~l',y is that exempt I would like to know? The other thing I ~ould like to tell. you is 'that I also understand ~hy the se~er system is coming .i~. Because ~e need industry and we need development and ~e need to cooperate t~ith that to enhance our community and that's the industrial property to the ~,est of ~udubon. I happen to be involved in a little bit of it. Have a little privy information to ~hat may happen and if you really need to do this, and I understand we need to do it, then let's charge it to the z, industrial park. If they can't afford, if we can't. If I can't afford to pay another $200,000.00 [o get sewer and water into that area, or Ryan Develop,~ent or ~hoever the , it is, if we can't afford another couple hundred thousand dollars ~ithout getting on somebody's landowners, homeowners and we've got to tax them $20,000.00, or assess [hem 20-30-40,000 dollars, we're not doing our jobs guys. You k~o~, come or,. Hit me one more time. Hit industry one more time. ~e're good at that. ~e 'bake it but leave the poor SOB that's living there, leave them alone. put it ~here iL belongs. Rod 6rams. I know well. I know what he intends to do~ Hey, .if some poor bugger has to pay, if he's going to raise his lot price by 3--4-500 bucks [o cover 30 lots, raise it .... ~hich I'm part of, and Ryan Development, if we've got to raise it, the lot price $10,000.00, so be it. That's not goi~]g to chase the industrialist a~ay. That's not going to chase the persor, that really ~ants to be out here. But ~hat you're going to do is you're go.[,g ~o hurt a whole bunch of people ~nd you're going to get a black eye as a result of it so I really think we should look at that. Run the sewer by. Tap me. Tap all these other people for one hook~up. ~nd ~e've got somebody, if any of you people want '[o come up and develop that property, belly up to the bar. Bt~y the land, the sewer's running by, run the 1' off and then you pay it. That's really ho~ it should work guys, in my estimation. So if ~e go do~n this road, t~: exempt all these various different people and you keep after these 5 people along ~udubon Road I can assure you, ~e're going to have a * of a fight. I'm done. Thank you very much for your time. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. 4nyo,e else? 18 City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 Doug Barinsky: Good evening. I'm Doug Barinsky at 8731 Audubon. I have the other green acres parcel there on the east side. It just amazes me to, it seems like every time there's something going on in our direction we end up having to appear in front of the City Council. I guess it's been fun a little bit but this is about the third time for me in 3 years and this one really disappoints me when we see the kind of stress that we have to put somebody like Mrs. Michel through. 5 years ago when I moved out there it was for the intention of living there. To have a house and a barn and a couple acres and horses for my kids. About 1 1/2 years ago we sat through the meetings in this very room on the MUSA line and the land use plan and on more than one occasion during those meetings the question of assessments and taxes were brought up by many of us concerned property owners that lived out in that area. Several times also during that it was responded by both Clty and County officials that the change of status out there would not impact us unless we decided to develop. If we want to replay the tapes that we make, I thlnk you can go back and flnd out who made those statements. I am one of the 5 property owners on that east side and we thlnk that lt's a form of economic greenmail to see what's belng proposed and the lack of sensitivity with the city planners in this regard. Somebody declded that unless these 5 people on thls slde of the road out there were golng to make an issue out of it, they could just ante up for 25-30-40,000 dollars. My own share ls to be $38,000.00 if this ls approved and I just have to accept it and plan to move and develop which obviously hasn't been my plan in the nearby or I'm going to pay a $38,000.00 premium for the right to continue to live there. It's my understanding just because I have green acres that yes, that qualifies me for a deferment but that klnd of assessment still rides over my title and if I declded to sell that to a similiar owner who wanted to use it the way I have, that'd have to be pald up. So it's a blt misleading to tell Mrs. Michels that yeah, just defer it and everything will be fine. I propose that the 5 properties on the east side of Audubon be allowed to participate in thls projeot on an individual basis. If they do want to develop, now or later, they can be assessed along these plans. If at thls time they don't want to develop but they feel they have a need for city sewer and water service, allow them to take the one tle in. I may elect to do that. I think that might be my best option. But if they also have satisfactory water and sewer and have a new system that's been put ln, I don't even understand why they should get the one assessment at thls point in time. I guess as a close, I don't think we should be forced to subsidize the actual development costs as Wayne was indicating on the west side. I can appreciate their petition. If I was in the development business, this is exactly what I would want to do if I was one of the owners but as a homeowner wanting to live there, I don't think that this is right. What you're planning to do and I hope we can get consideration out of the Counc11. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thanks. Anyone else7 Ron Entinger: Good evening. My name is Ron Entinger. I live at 8851 Audubon Road. I'm just to the east of the Michel's area. I have 10 acres and I'm not under the green acres deal. I had that removed approximately 2 years ago and I guess I didn't fight it. I didn't think it was that big of a deal, but apparently lt's looklng 11kw I should have at the time now. I know there was a meeting earlier and I was, I got the mailing out and on it it said it included the area west of Audubon Road so I flled it away thlnklng that dldn't include me but I guess it does now when the second paper comes out and it says the area adjacent to and west of Audubon Road. And it was Michel's that found out that 19 City Coupcil He.e.[i~g ~ Haroh 9, 1992 I)~,y, we're all i,cluded al~d that's how we 'round out about it. I guess my thing too is that .if in the maJ. n reason for the sewer' and water needed out there is 'for the industrial a,d say commercial development and the development west of Audubon Road, I believe it's just fair that they should pay for it. What you're doi,9 is taki,g my 10 acres, where I built a home 3 years ago. I have no choice at $3].,000.00 is my assessment, I'd have to bulldoze the house. Oivide it up and get rid of it and I'm not prepared to do that. I built the house with the intentions of having some type of green area around it. I planted probably 750 trees i, the last 3 years a,d that ~ould be just 25 left if it gets divided into ~4 lots like is planned. And I guess I'm in the same position where if it has to be an assessment of one, I can see that. I ha~e no need for it. I'd be buying something I don't even need. I have my own well. I have my own sewer j~st as the exempt areas do to the west of us. My other questlon I have ls concerning my property abuts to the bottom of Lyman Blvd. where there's a future uatermain and a Future sewer golng in down there. ~hat you're doing is if I were to develop my property is you have to take the sewer and water across a driveway easement about tulce as far to go to the sewer and water where it is now. Whereas south of my property it runs right up to it a,d I'd find in the .future if that would come up, I'd like to be considered in the future but not now. Thank you. Councilman Workman: Didn't the staff report state that there would be just one trunk for those east? In the middle paragraph doesn't it say specifically, and again a lot of other questions but isn't that what it's saying? But it is saying deferring lhe rest. Is that what it's saying? Don Ashworth: Charles, I guess I would look to you. It would be my understanding that yes. We would only be assessing one but that if development would occur in the future, here ls the maxlmum number of units that could go against the p~'operty. (;ouncilman Workman: Is it considered a deferment 'though? Don Ashuorth: As far as the assessment clock going, no. I mean as far as the .zccumlatlve lnterest golng on top of lt, no. Ro, Entinger: Your option is ~o defer it with or without... Don Ashuorth'- I believe the concept was one in which we were trying to establish kind of .~ constant unit charge basis for really all of the properties within that whole area, including north of TH 5 as well. That based on those number of units that would be the charge back to those properties at this point in time. We would not automatically escalate that but as time went on, if the unit charge for the rest of the city rose from $1,200.00 to $1,400.00, it potentially could affect those owners if they developed 5 or 10 years from now. Correct? charles Folch: That's correct... Wayne Bongard: 8uestion. If the sewer comes by and if we agree, and I'm saying Jf we agree, everybody accepts one hook-up, that means we have for all practical purposes, city water and sewer to the ? acres. Now Carver County, State of Ninn~sotn ls not a friendly tax environment. I can see the County saylng well, 20 City Council Meeting - March geez are you lucky Mr. Bongard. You're only paying 13 grand now but you've got city water and sewer and you've got a hook up here. God, that property must be worth xxx and then the property goes or the taxes go up to 15, 17, 18, who the ~ knows where it stops. But in reality isn't that kind of how it works? You know you raise the value because you've got sewer and water running by and for sure if you pay for an access, then boy you've really... There's a T here and by gosh whether you plan on developing or don't developing lt, I guess I really don't care. This is not an argumentive thing. This is from a sensible standpoint. What do you thlnk would happen? ...would say by golly, are you lucky and are we lucky. Don Ashworth: Not immediately. Wayne Bongard: No, not immediately, right. Give them a year or two. Ursula you know and I thlnk you also know there's a hlgh probability that that could happen but I think our position is, run it down Audubon Road. We don't give a darn but if you start naillng us for 13 spots, 15 spots, all spots, 5 years from now, 10 years from now, which I think I heard, depending on language...ain't going to put up with lt. Unless you get all these exempt people in here that have sewer and water and well and all those other things. Don Ashworth: At one point in time all of the properties that are here were valued at $2,000.00, $2,500.00 per acre. At the time that you purchased. Wayne Bongard: A1 liked to sell them for $8,000.00 to $10,000.00. I think most of us paid that much... Don Ashworth: You recognize that the value of the property was increasing. In the years that you purchased, you recognize that the value of the property was increasing. You probably paid 8, 10 or $12,000.00 an acre. At some point in time you know that property will be valued potentially. Wayne Bongard: ...now for 100 grand. Don Ashworth: But the sewer and water I don't see where that's going to have any. Wayne Bongard: We're messing with insignificants here. What's important is what's going to happen now in the lifetlme of the people living there and leave them be comfortable. Let's let well enough alone. Let these people be comfortable. Charge us on one hand $2,500.00 and call it done. Mayor Chmlel: We have a few other people who would llke to make some comments. Councilman Wing: Mr. Mayor, could I just briefly? Every comment so far has been based on concern for my 5, 10, 15 acres. The staff report we have recommends single unit charges of $2,245.00. This Council has never forced development. We have never forced the loss or sale of lane. They don't encourage development if it means those occurrences. As a matter of fact, I thlnk the lmpact on my neighbors at the west end has been negative. And lt's my understanding and I will just speak for the Council, I believe it's our lntent to probably favor one unit charge per resldent untll such time that it would develop and that's included in these costs so rather than keep listening to 21 City Coun~:i.1. He,)t'J.~g -Harr. h 9, 1992 these same comments, I 'think these people can feel somewhat comfortable and you'].l have to support this position. Hayer Chmiel: RJ. ght. ¢,ouncilman Wing: We're not coming after you for $22,000.00. At the very most it's going to be a single unit charge and that has been debated here for hours that that does add value to the property. You do have access and you're going to pay the $2,245.00 but you're not going to pay $22,000.00 until such time as you decide to plat that, develop it and hook up the additional lots. So the arguments are getting kind of, or the property .is lost through debt. So the comments tonight are kind of getting a little repetitious and either move on, if there's any other problems. Doug Barinsky: Car, we ask one more question for clarification and then we'll get off of that issue? I just don't want any confusion. There seems to be some about what the word deferred assessment means because this plan as written and as fully explained to me by city staff, is not single at this point. The ua/ it's written it is for multi based on 13 to 17 lots and that's the way it's being presented right now and it's going to have to changed before it fits what Mr. Wing is stating. We don't want to learn later that oh by the way, yeah we only charged you for one unit. We deferred the other because it will hang over- our' titles and us're also concerned about that. Thank you. Don Patton: Hr. Hayor, Council. My name is Don Patton. You should have received a letter from the Lake Susan Hills Partnership. 3ust to get the Lopics. One of the other gentleman made the point that, didn't you get the letter in your packet? Mayor Chmiel.~ Yes. Don Patton: In the original advertising it did state west of ~udubon, north of Lyman, south of l'H .5 and Z think east of 4 and for that reason we didn't pay attention to probably as early as ue should. One of the reasons that ue didn't pay attention, as a part of developing the Third ~ddition for Lake Susan Hills, the Third ~ddition for Lake Susan, we actually had to provide service west of Audubon at the city's request thinking that that would take care of that cost and access, hnd yomt see our request built into that. The other thing, in working with staff over the years, Z wanted to just clarify one thing. Zn the trunk sanitary and trunk water cost. Those are shown as $970.00 and $1,275.00. Z think wi(h£n the last three years those have been down around the 5 to 6 to ?00. Have '[hey been increased from this 6 to $1,200.00 level in the last year or so? Bob Schunicht: They were raised...overall cityuide system... Previously the city did not have cltywlde... Don Patton: So this is a different fee then? There was a trunk fee, a lateral fee but there uill not be the access fee that have been charged in the past? Is that correct? Charles Folch: If a property pays a trunk assessment, let me go with the other reversal. 'rf a property is nov assessed for a trunk benefit and some future 22 City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 point in time they subdivide the property and they come in for a hook-up, at that time prior to the cLty's hook-up charge policy, we recover those charges for a trunk assessment that was not paid previously. Similar analogous is on connect/on charge wh£ch Lfa lateral assessment has not been paLd on a property that develops...in the future when they come in for building permits, then you collect the collection charge. Recover the cost for a lateral assessment that you did not previously pay for. Don Patton: So it's not a double cost? Charles Folch: No. Don Patton: Mr. Mayor knows that I'm always looking for. Mayor ChmieZ: No, it shouldn't be a double cost. Charles Folch: There is a trunk charge and a lateral charge but... Don Patton: The other thing, the property, the Outlot A that I'm speaking of whlch ls designated by 2, as a part of the plannlng that we dld with the city back in 1987, the city required us to have that as a multi-family property. It ~s not accessible and we would expect that to remain under green acres because it can't be developed at this point. The partnership has paid dearly for a lot of assessment to try to hang onto thls land through the years. Thls includes, for some of the new staff or for some of the new Council and new staff, the partnership dedicated all of the right-of-way for CR 17 at no cost to anyone. Obviously it did help the development but it was also a real charge that was a cost on that. But that wlll be green acres? Is that correct? And it will stay because it is not accessible. Right? Mayor Chmlel: Yes. Right. Don Patton: Thank you. Conrad Flskness: Conrad Flskness from Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed 01strict. A quick question with regard to the storm water planning for this area. Would it be done under the umbrella of the storm water management plan that you're working on? Would it be done prior to that? Subsequent? Charles Folch: It's being done as part of the storm water management... Conrad Fiskness: As you may know I've been kind of on a one man crusade to look at the handllng of storm water along Bluff Creek. Bluff Creek ls unique in that it has no bodies of water along it's course which means that as development occurs, there's golng to be a considerable amount of water that will be coming into this stream bed and I've been encouraging that this be looked at in terms of upland storage, water retention facilities along lt's course before land gets developed and opportunities to do some of these things are forever gone. I just wlsh to make that polnt. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Good. Thank you. Anyone else? Al. 23 Ci. ty C:ou~cj_l. Her~l..i. ng -. I'larci~ 9, 199~ A]. K)ingelhutz: Hr. l]olasek, Earl Holasek who owns the portion just north of the railroad tracks and west of GalpLn Blvd. has asked me to speak for him. Is that actually in the assessment area at the present time? We know lt's under. Dob Schunlcht: This parcel rlght here? A1 Klingelhutz: Right. Bob Schunicht: It's in the sanitary sewer assessment boundary. It's not in the water assessment boundary, so your sewer assessment. Klingelhutz: Is that actually part of the Bluff Creek Watershed District or that the Hazeltine Watershed 01strict? Bob Schunicht: It's actually in, most of it drains toward Hazeltlne...part of the. Hazeltine w~torshed. There; arC; b~sically two options for that property depending on the availablJi[y of capacity and access to sewer. It's posslble that [hat could go to Ch,'~sk~ but the cost of the system...shows the lift station fo'r that property taklng it into Charlhassen. A1 Klingelhutz: I know it's in, the Zand is in Chanhassen. Now Earl has been there for many years and you probably all know he's in the greenhouse business. Wha( would be the total assessment against that property? What's the figure on that? ~ob Schunicht: $140,000.00 sanitary sewer based on a total of 145 units. And there's actually, the watermain would be about... hi. K11ngelhutz' Earl's blggest concern ls he has a farm down in Golden Valley and that's before the green acres thing was put in and he actually, him and his folks were actually forced to sell out because of these tremendous assessments o~ [he property. Now you're saying there's about $180,000.00 on the sewer on l. hat property? Bob Schurlicht-' $140,000.00 on the sewer and... Al. I<Zingeihutz: On the water. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. A total of $325,000,00. A1Klirmgelhutz: A total of $325,000.00. What have you got there Earl? 45-50 acres? Earl Holasek: We have 44 acres. Mayor ChmJ. el: 44.06. Earl Holasek: That's ridiculous because the water's going to the Hazeltine Lake. Why would they want to pump it uphill the wrong way? That's stupid. Bob Schunicht: The sanitary sewer that's going to be pumped. The city of Chanhassen has a ~anitary sewer and so does the city of Chaska. If you were in the city of Chaska for example, you'd probably go into their system. If you're 24 City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 in Chanhassen, then there's a likelihood that you would go lnto Chanhassen system although wlth Chanhassen and Chaska would be able to work out a deal where you can go into Chaska's system, that might happen. The charge with you being the city of Chanhassen will still be the same though. $970.00 for sanitary sewer and $1,275.00 for water because that's probably in the city of Chanhassen. Earl Holasek: You know thls ls farmland yet. There's no way in % a guy could farm that kind of land. Councilman Wing: Is this one of the parcels, the 11 parcels that's? Bob Schunicht: No. It's a parcel that's on green acres but it is a large parcel. The 11 parcels that we're talking about ls the parcels that's shown in orange on this map... Some of the parcels are double because they're under 10 acres but they're... Councilman Workman: You're talklng about a sanltary sewer charge. He mlght be thinking of a storm sewer, correct? Bob Schunlcht: Yeah, there's no storm sewer charge as a part of this but ! think what he's saying is the natural drainage for the property goes into Chaska. When Chaska gets thelr treatment plant problems worked out...and sewer capacity, it's likely that Chanhassen's staff and Chaska's staff will be talking about a project where that may go lnto Chaska. But whether it goes lnto Chaska or Chanhassen...the ultimate charge that they see are the... Councilman Workman: There's nothing that's related to a sanitary sewer that's going into Lake Hazeltine I hope. Bob Schunicht: No .... says the water runs. Councilwoman Oimler: I think we're past that stage. A1 K11ngelhutz: Well a gravlty flow sewer line would run towards Hazeltine and into Chaska. A lift station could take care of the property in Chanhassen. I guess Earl's biggest concern, and probably the same concern I had 2 weeks ago, is $140,000.00 assessment agalnst 44 acres of land, what will be done on that assessment because lt'$ in green acres? Wlll the charge per unlt on that be, what is the sewer assessment? Bob Schunicht: $970.00. A1 Kllngelhutz: $975.00 per unit. Stay without interest and only be increased by inflation? Mayor Chmiel: I was talklng and I wasn't listening Al. What was that you sald regarding inflation? A1Klingelhutz: Well he's got $140,000.00 worth of assessments on the property now and if that property because it's in green acres, stayed in the same service and use lt's in at the present tlme, that $140,000.00 would not be added to with interest. But the possibility of the charge on that could increase if the 25 City Count[.1 Nee. ti,'~9 -. Ha'r'ch 9, t992 overall tit>' sewer plan would increase from $925.00 to $1,200.00. Is that the way it's going to be fi. guyed on that? Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. A1 Klingelhutz: Ear]., if you ever want to sell that property, I'm talking to Earl now to satisfy ul',at he... Hayor Chmiel: No sales here. A} Klingelhutz: The assessment would be against your property of $140,000.00. Earl Holasek: For farmland. Wino the · wants sewer out there in the first place? Z don't need no sewer [here. I got my own sewer system. A1 Klingelhutz: I know that. And he don't plan on changing it. He's got a te. rrific investment in his greenhouses and stuff there at the present tlme. And we ~'eallze ~hat. I hope it's somethLng you w111 tako into consideration because I'd sure hate to set: hls greenhouses be moved out of Chanhassen because I thlnk they provide a tremendous service to the city. Mayor Chmiel: Thanks Al. Anyone else? L. ar~'y VanOeVeire: Yes, I'm Larry VanOeVeire. I own parcel 37. This came as a 11ttle b~t of a surprise to ine because Z thought everything was golng to be .so~th of TH S and T just found out that our property jumps up into the Bluff Creek district. Anyway I guess my concern was that there was going to be a TII 5 coridoi- study done. I guess right now the land ls zoned residential. I guess I don't feel the land ls really sulted for that. I guess my major concern .rs that again on assessments and slze of the sewer, if the slze of tile sewer at this time would change if there was a possibility of rezonlng it in the future. If it would be adequate at this time if it's put through and also this isn't green acre property and I guess I'm wondering how that ls handled as far as assessments go. At this time I guess it's zoned residential. ~ don't feel the property ls sellable. And especially wlth water and sewer Jn there. I guess Z .iust don't feel that it's adequate as far as residential property being on the corner. ~ was wondering how the assessments would be handled on a property that J. sn't green acres. Bob schunlcht: ...were changed to a higher denslty...the answer is yes. The sewer's big enough to handle those kinds of changes in the property... Second thlng ls that the proposed resldential...based on residential. If you were to develop the land use. Larry VanDeVeire: Even though it isn't green acres? Even though I don't live Lhere? Bob Schunlcht: I can't...exactly but they're shown at a certain klnd of density ~'esidential. i.arry VanDeVelre: Yeah, medium density residential I think it was. I guess like ~ say, Z think I'm coming in here kind of bllnd. City Council Meeting - Harcb 9, 1992 Bob Schur, icht: That happens to be the same charge for medium density residential... If you happened to change the land use and got more use out of it, you'd pay more... Larry VanOeVeire: Same type of thing applies though as far as unit acres. 1 unlt acres applled right now until it is developed? Bob Schunicht: If your property is on green acres. Larry YanDeUeire: It's not green acres. Councilman Workman: How come I was thinking about you Larry, believe it or not. I didn't recognize you with that full beard there. How come this did get pulled ln? I don't understand. Bob Schunicht: The assessment column. Councilman Workman: And maybe you want it in and maybe you're ready to get going. I know from the comp plan debate who was a little unsure about where we'd zone it but. Bob Schunicht: Okay what happened, this area is a MUSA area that you have in the orange except the 1995 study area. And for the Lake Ann...the boundary for that came down something 11kw this. So everything here, in that area has already been assessed for trunk sanitary sewer...so the only thing left in the MUSA that hasn't been a part of a project or served wlth anything, is thls property right there. Councilman Workman: And then all of this. Bob Schunicht: So what this does, when this pro3ect gets done, this completes the assessments for everything in the HUSA that... Larry VanOeVeire: Then do I understand that it would be assessed at 1 unit per acre even though? Bob Schunicht: ...16 units. Larry VanOeVelre: l& units? Okay, I guess then I would like to see something happen as far as the corridor study because I'm looklng at, I don't know, I never took out the wetlands or something 11kw that but I'm looking at $90,000.00 and a piece of property that there isn't a residential developer in the area here I'm sure that want lt. I guess I'm klnd of between a rock and a hard place as far as which gets done first. I'd like to see something happen as far as the TH 5 corrldor study happen before the dollars have to start flowlng. They sure aren't in my pocket. Bob Schunicht: The other thing...Phase 2 so...corridor study may happen. You may have more information by the time... Larry VanDeVelre: What type of timeframe is there as far as assessments go? When do they start? 27 City Council Heeti. n9 .-Mar'ch 9, 1997. Bob Schunicht.' The ,~ssessment for the improvements 'that are being discussed tonight would be November of next year, so November of 1993. They would determine taxes in May of 1994 for Phase 1...So Phase 2, the earliest would be...T imagine May of 1995... You've got a ways yet. Lots of things could happen bet ueen then. Mayor Chmiel-' You may win the lottery. Coltncilman Workman: Could T ask a real quick question? Why, and Wayne raised the question. Why have we left Tiloberwood out of thls? Bob Schunicht: In looking at the overall...sanltary sewer and watermaln system, ...won't do anything with them. ~t's been our experience in other communities where we have homes that have been bullt on individual 5 acre parcels around town and .~tuff like that...so when ue did that we m~de the decision to leave out the large lot, slngle famlly developments that were part of the major development bu[ to include the individual parcels... Now like].y you might get some large lot development... Henry Wrase: Henry Wrase, 8175 Hazeltine Blvd.. Just a question on 41, this residential. What's the property along TH 41, is that residential? Golng to be residential or commercial? Mayor Chmiel: Paul, ca;] you answer that? Paul Krauss: I believe that entire area is guided for office/industrial use ultimately. Henry Wrase: And I have two residences on there, I will be charged as a resident or will I be charged commercial? Paul I<rauss: That I don't know. Bob Schunicht: The Council said that anybody...pzrcel would be charged one I~nit... Henry Wra~e: Thank you. Milmer Holnau: I didn't get too excited about this because I was at one of with you at the last meeting. At the last meetlng I was told all the assessments would be deferred until we use them. Now I hear we're going to posslbly be assessed for one hook-up or more. I'd like to ask where is the sewer going to run on Audubon Road? Bob Schunicht: West side. Wilmer Molnau: On the west side of what? Of the road? Bob Schunicht: Off on the shoulder. Or not off Oil the shoulder but off on the boulevard. Wilmer Molnau: Is that why they didn't tar the second lane? 28 City Counci]. Heeting - Harch 9, 1992 Mayor Chmiel: It might be. Bob Schunicht: It's not the intention to tear up the road. It's the intention to put it in the city's right-of-way for an easement...so the roadway will stay intact. Wilmer Holnau: Well that will interfere with the high lines. You'll have to move the high lines again I suppose. Bob Schunicht: We'll have to work around the high lines. Wilmer Holnau: Good, because they took it away from my side and I don't want it back. Hayor Chmiel: Anyone else? Hans Hagen: Hy name is Hans Hagen. We have a purchase agreement on parcel number II. We have submitted a pian to the city for development of 141 single family lots. We note that the proposed first phase stops at the railroad and we would Iike to have the Mayor and Council and staff consider extending that so we could develop, if you go ahead with the sanitary sewer, we would like to develop this year. Assuming if the project does go ahead, there was a question with regard to the finances and would this property be pulled out of green acres and it would. It wouId be our intention to, if it's approved, to develop it as early as possible and therefore we would pull that parcel out of green acres so that those funds could be used in your calculation for hook-ups. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Resident: There was a question back here on timing. Would this be a project this summer? Mayor Chmiel: We haven't determined that as of yet, no. Bob Worthington: Hr. Hayor, members of Councti I'm Bob Worthington with Opus Corporation, 9900 Bren Road East, Hinnetonka. And for those of you who do not know, we are very close to entering into an agreement with the Chaska Gateway Partners for purposes of becoming the exciusive deveiopment agent and the marketing agent for that property. Once that agreement is entered into, then we wiiI be in a position to deveIop a concept pian and come before the City. Hake them aware of what that concept pIan wouId be and hopefulIy whiIe that process is taking pIace, a user wiii come aiong who has some interest in constructing a building on a portion of that property. And depending upon where the sewer and the water and the improvements to the streets are at that time, wiii determine the timing of that deveIopment. So we're here basicaiIy to support what the city is doing reiative to extending sewer and water. We think it's consistent with your comprehensive pIanning. We think it's consistent with the MUSA iine debate and discussion that you had. Whether it shouId be extended or not extended and we hope that we can become a productive agent in assisting not oniy the partnership but the city in impiementing it's pians. So I thought that I wouId get that commerciaI out of the way first. And then we have severaI questions that I don't think we're in a position to ask the Councii to answer this evening but we at Ieast want to raise and kind of get them out on the tabIe 29 CJ. ty Coulee.ii. HaelJ. n~j -.-Itaf'ch 9, J. 99;Z :so j.t can be. uol~s.tdered, clepending upon what your going to do this evening in tarm.~ ~f thJ.~ f,'.-;asJ, biJ. J. ty report. The f.irst questiol/ I think has been answered and that is yes, assessments will be deferred and await ul~til development occurs on property uJ. tl~ the exception of some ,linimum unit costs which will be assessed against the property depending upon what the use of that property might be. Is tha.[ a corr'act .i. nterpref, ation? Rob Schunicht: That's cori'ect for' small parcels...the parce].s that we're talk.tng about, the green acres shown on here, the orange parce~s...assessmen~s u.tl], be ].ev~ed at ol,e un.'tt for people who have property but don't want... Bob Hortll~ngton.' Okay [hen in Phase 2, Phase 1, I,y interpretation is incor'¢ect? Okay. That means that even if He phased the property, as soon as the sewer arid water' becomes available to that property it becomes due on the assessl, ent rolls right after that? Bab .'.;chul~cht: Z think for your purposes ~hat you should assume that...eastern edge of your property... Bob ~orthlngton: Okay. ~e11, that's a concern and it's a policy d~scussion that we hope that we can have b~;fore you proceed with final implementation of .nng~neer~ng d'rauings and specifications because we're very concerned over the fact l:ha[ .tn readJ, ng the report ue have noted that there are costs fo~' sever and u,-~er which, if ~mple,~ented as they now stand, would have us having assessment or~ this property which would be 2. ~-/2 to sometimes 3 ~mes above what ue are paylng 'Tn other communities and while that may.not be a concern of the c~ty's, Jt Js a concel'n of ours because we wa~lt to I]ave this property competitive with other co~nunities so that iL doesn't s~t there while everybody else kind of has the.ir property absorbed and then it's time for' Chanhassen to get it's fair share~ Because the way the market goes, ~t doesn't work that way. ~nd we'd ~J. ke to have Chanhassen fJ. rst [l~ and fulJ. y franchised with the benefits that coloe from the J.r~vestment that it's makJ. ng in these improuenents. Could you expZa~n for us this sub.-~'runk hook--up which would take place within the Phase 2 portJ, on of the exter, s~on? There's a $520.00 sub--trunk hook--up for Z believe .it's sewer ~hat's going to be charged ~o these properties in addition to the base un.it cost. Or am ~ reading that ~rong? Bo[> Schu[~icht: There's a...property north of TH 5 that is going into one sub dj. strict. The other sub district... [~ob Wortl'lington: On page 20, bottom of the page, the second ~o the last sentence. Bob SchunJ. cht: ~hat's tile tit~e of the ~ssue? [~ob ~orthjngton.~ Zt's hook-up charge summary. Tt says property served by the :..~l,b--trunk sewer and 11ft station should be assessed a sub-.trunk hook-up charge of $520.00 per urlit. Dob SchunJcht: That's the one...property up here north of TH 5 and west of GaZp~n. Th,'~('s dZscusslng, what's happen~ng...so it's a different piece of property .... >'out' property Js $970.00 per unit for sewer... There are two 3O City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 Bob Worthington: So there's not a double assessment? Bob Schunicht: No. Just one... Bob Worthington: Very good. I have a couple of more questions Mr. Mayor but I think beyond this our interest would be, if you decide to adopt the feasibility report this evening with some of these questions unanswered, we would like to have the opportunity of sitting down with the staff and the consulting engineer to have some of these concerns kind of worked out so that when it comes back for action for engineering drawings and specifications, these concerns have been covered. If you would like to defer a decision this evening on this so ue can work out these concerns along with some of the other neighbors who are here who also have concerns, then that would be fine with us as well. Mayor Chmiel: I'm already thinking in that line. Bob Worthington: Alright. So with that in mind I just wanted again to let you know that Opus is going to be active again within the community and we're hoping that we can produce some tax base and some new jobs and some new opportunities that your planning is calling for. Mayor Chmiel: Good. Thank you. Anyone else? Yes sir. Tom Michel: I'm Tom Michel. I live on 8941 Audubon and I guess I didn't get my two cents worth in and everybody said they were tired of hearing all this stuff about the small homeowners and something but I have a question that kind of weighs on my mind because in the initial papers that were handed out by the city it said they had petitions from 55% of the property owners requesting this whole project. Now I could see after looking over the list that that couldn't possibly be true and then tonight they said no, that's not what they meant or not what, it's what they printed. It's who owns 55~ of the land. Now I don't know where that's coming from but it would seem to me a guy could go out here and buy 555 acres of land and rope in another 450 people because they're the majority and I don't see how that works in this place. I got an awful lot of other questions about those that are exempted. Those parcels that are listed and aren't paying anything, including the City of Chanhassen who got a piece of property from one of those Lake Susan Hills things or something. Possibly the substation down there. I'm sure those people are not necessarily in agreement with the rest Of it but I don't know how a few major property holders can control the entire project and as you've already heard, including people that aren't even involved in it and I'd kind of like to have some kind of an answer to that. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Very good. We'll get back to you on that as well. Anyone else? Dave Stockdale: My name is Dave Stockdale. I own the property at 8301 Audubon. I apologize, I just got back in town so I dldn't have a lot of time to prepare. I had a question on number 4. That's basically a single family unit in an area that's industrial. I just wanted to clarify how you were assessing that. Bob Schunicht: As the Council indicated to people who own parcels, small parcels with slngle family residence on lt, would be one unit for right now but eventually that would be commercial... 31 City Co~lncil Meeting -. I'ia~-c:h 9, 1992 C~ave SLockdale: Okay. A year and a half ago when they upgraded Audubon Road and I was assessed for sewer and water at that point, is that something dj fferent than t his? charles Folch: Z think you were assessed for lateral sewer and water which is service right to your property and this is for the overall system. The trunk and lateral, ].ike the discussion we had with Don Patton before, we charged for both trunk and lateral... When we looked at the assessment8 for this whole project, we'll be very careful... Oave Stockdale: Okay. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Anyone else? Seeing none, Z'd like to just make a (lu£ck comment on this. What I would like to see us do again is table this item and I'd like to have each of the questions that were asked this evening by staff to review and answer all those questions and bring this back to Council. Again ~ would say the total numbers of questions that have been asked, there's quite a few. I think it's going to take a little time for staff to pull it together and bring this back to Council by April 13th, which would be the first Council meeting J.n April. The second Honday of the month. And ~ think it's many questions that were asked that should be answered and they were good questions and ~ think the only way we can really do this justifiably is to understand the entirety of what the full package is. So with that I'd like to just move on down through. ~ think we can sort of reserve most of our comments for that particular time as well rather than this evening to continue and go on. Councilwoman Dimler: I'll second your motion to table. Councilman Workman~. Do we need to table or don't we need to keep the public I'learJ. ng open? Mayor Chmiel: Well it would still be open with the tabling. Right counsel? Ye~. Councilman Mason: I'll wait until next round. Councilman Workman: Well I guess I want to at least get the point out that we went through the MUSA expansion and we had a lot of fun dolng that and Chanhassen's in a sltuatlon where we are growing. There's some people in the room that are real happy that ue are and there are some obviously that are not. And we've been wrestling with that and trying as best as we can. I guess I don't want to not be quiet tonight without anybody in the room feeling that Z don't care (hat they are paying or have to pay 10 cents when they don't feel ].ike they should. And that's the biggest frustration that we have in this growing, should we grow or shouldn't we grow climate. Our first speaker tonight, very emotiorlal and ~. don't have any doubts that it is very emotional. I would probably only hope to be that emotional if Z were in her situation. Z used to be able to ride my bike when I was 8 years old by her house up to that tittle old wooden bridge and we used to sit on that bridge and feel it wiggle. The bridge ~sn't there anymore and I don't think anybody from Chaska's letting their 8 year old ride their bike up that road anymore so things have changed quite a bit. Z just don't want anybody to leave tonight, Z know Doug and the Barinsky's, we taJ. ked about, Z don't know how you ended up with the MUSA 32 City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 discussion but when we upgraded the road we had a lot of these same neighbors and we dldn't put a trail in there which would have ruined trees and all sorts of other things and I thlnk we're as sensitive as we could to this neighborhood. I think we're going to continue to be that way but it is touchy and it's tough to make these decisions and I thlnk again we're golng to be able to make good decisions but give it more time. I took more time than I wanted to. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Richard. Councilman Wing: I uill assume the risk of this comment but it's one of the questions. I want to know more about Tlmberwood. Here we have this large mass of homes right in the very middle of this thing. Right in the center of it and I'm not plcklng on Tlmberwood at all but I'd 11ke to know a little blt about their development potential and some of the hazards and the options that they have as a neighborhood and landowners and glven the slze of their lot, being in the mlddle of this entire project, I guess I'm a little curious why they're not at least getting a unit charge per house as they're going to be lncluded in this project. And maybe these are real simple explanations. Mayor Chmiel: Maybe Paul could just touch on that. Paul Krauss: Well, as Doug 8arinsky indicated, there was a tremendous amount of discussion about the potential of assessments and what the clty pollcies were and the comprehensive plan. One of the phenomena that happened in this city was prlor to the 1987 ordinance or because of that 1987 change that it decreased the density to I per 10 units per acre. Prior to that coming into play we had a flurry of 2 1/2 acre lot subdivisions. Some of them might have 5 acre lots or whatever but they came in under that Statute. Timberwood was a result of that. There's another one north on Galpin. Sunridge Court technically wasn't exactly that but was sort of the same thing. Anyway during the comprehensive plan there was a lot of discussion as to what sort of pollcy should be put in the comprehensive plan to recognize that as utilities are extended, it can cause hardship. And one of the things that we concluded at that time was that those modern '87 era subdivisions were compact, fairly dense, conglomerations of new homes wlth new on site sewer and new water. It's hlghly unlikely that they, I mean you might have a 5 acre lot in the middle of Timberwood but it's highly unllkely that somebody's golng to be able to rezone that from rural residential to RSF and then run utilities past 18 angry neighbors who don't want it to get any klnd of additional denslty in there. So it was concluded that they were pretty much as developed as they reasonably are going to be into the foreseeable future. As a consequence there was some policies written lnto the comprehensive plan that said that, I'm going to paraphrase it kind of but that wherever posslble we would make accommodations for those Tlmberwood, Sunridge Court areas recognizing the history. Recognizing the lack of development potential. 8ut we always trled to be studlous to make sure that it was clear that the only reason we were able to do that is because these are very compact areas relatively and we can sklrt them. And that you wlll have individual lots that may or may not have new homes or older homes on them up and down streets and utilities will run past them and that's where you get into the situations that you heard tonight. Councilman Workman: But couldn't I make that same argument for Wayne Bongard's property or the Barinsky place? C. Jty Council Heetir~g - Harcl~ '), 1992 Counc:ilman kl.i119'. Lake Lucy Road. Paul Krauss: Well actually Lake Lucy Highlands is one of those subdivisions. Yeah you can but the problem we had is there's no way to identify this property over here has a brand new sewer system. Let's skip that. Next one has an old one so we should assess that. The utilities are run on a linear fashion and the oi,].y reason why these subdivisions could be given any kind of special consideration is because they are relatively compact and can avoid them to the best of your ability. There's an additional cost frankly to avoiding Ttmberuood. You deadhead the line around the thing so the properties north of there are going Lo probably I,ave to pay, cover that cost. But that's the derivation of it. That's where that consideration first developed. It was dui'lng Lhe hearings of the comprehensive plan. Councilman Wing'. Wouldn't Timberwood possibly benefit costwise by paying unit charge ,',ow projected to the future? ~re they going to be hit a lot harder if they ever decide to run lines or hook up 10-15 years from now? P,'~ul Krauss: If they ever want to have utilities in Timberwood, I hope I'm not yoLtr planner. Nayor Chmiel: Okay. ~e have a motion on the floor with a second. Any other discussion? Mayor Chmiel moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to table the public hearing on the feasibility study for trunk utility improvements to the Upper Bluff Creek area until the first City Council meeting in April. All voted in favor and the ,notion carried unanimously. Nayor chmiel: This will be back on our agenda by April 13th and ail the questions that were asked this evening will be answered. 61 Klinge]hutz: One question. I think Earl would like to be involved if there's going to be any discussion about the land... Hayor Chmiel: Sure. Thank you. PUBLIC HEARING: AMERICANA BANK, LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF MARKET BOULEVARD AND WEST 79TH STREET: A. SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A 11,468 SQ. FT. TWO STORY BANK AND OFFICE BUILDING. B. PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT APPROVAL. C. PUBLIC HEARING VACATING THE UNDERLYING PLAT AND EASEMENTS OF CROSSROADS PLAZA ADDITION. Sharmin A1-Jaff: The application is for a preliminary and final plat rather tha~ a preliminary plat only. Hayor Chmiel: Final plat. Did everyone hear that for item (b)? Final rather than preliminary. We already went through that. SharmJn Al-Jaff: There are three simple applications attached to this proposal. Tl~e ,~i[e plall is for a bank office building. The design of the building 34 City Council Meeting - March reflects the future Harket Square shopping center and the roofline of Country suites Hotel. One attractive feature is a plaza at the intersection of West 79th and Market Blvd.. There are two access points to this site. One via West ?Vth Street and the second from Market Blvd.. Staff had some concerns regarding the Market Blvd. curb cut allowing left turns but a traffic study performed by Strgar-Roscoe-Fausch concluded that a fuli access could be accommodated. The second application is for a subdivision. All we're doing is moving the former property line to the west to achieve an area of 70,000 square feet on Lot 1 which will be the future site for the Americana Bank. Lot 2 will be reserved for future development. The third application is vacation of underlying easements. They have a utility and drainage easement 5 feet on each side of the previous property tine. Oividing property line. This would need to be vacated. The second vacation is for a cross access easement located along the common lot line of Lots 1 and 2, Block ~. We're also recommending withdrawal of an originally approved site plan for Crossroads National Bank building as a condition of approval of the site plan for the Americana Bank. We are recommending approval with conditions outllned in the report. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Does the applicant wish to say something at this particular time? Randy Schultz: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, good evening. I'm here again to talk to you about our desire to bring a new banking facility into the city of Chanhassen. In front of you ls an artist drawlng of what we belleve thls building will look like. We think it will be a very good addltion to the city comlng into one of your principle entrance spots into the city. We would expect to, with your approval tonight, to be working diligently to be erecting this bulldlng just as soon as we posslbly can and we're looking very anxiously lnto coming into the City of Chanhassen. As some of you, as I'm sure all of you know at one polnt we were looking to construct a similar facllity over on the corner of 78th and Market. In the Market Square development. Unfortunately that did not, the delays in that caused us to declde that this would be a better property for us and in working with Paul and Sharmin and the clty staff we think we've developed a very excellent commercial development and banklng facility for the city. If there's any questions, particular questions regarding the facility, I'd like to have our architect Klm Jacobsen address those. And I'll stay here for any questions also. Mayor Chmiel: Very good. Thank you. Is there anyone else at thls time that would 11ke to address this issue? Okay. I'll bring it back to Council. I was just noticing that to make a few of the Council people happy, I was counting the total number of trees that are going to be planted on the site. There's going to be 38 total trees. Just a little beyond what we normally have been thinking about. Councilman Workman: Rapid 0il has that on their plan too and they don't have them all there. Mayor Chmiel: If they don't, they should and we can make sure that they do. Councilman Workman: I'd like it. 35 City Council HeeLing - March 9, 1992_ Mayor chmJ. el'- -Spring is coming. They can be planted. The other question that Z do have. Having tenants within the building, will we have slgns on the bank for [enants? Has that been considered? Randy Schultz: We have a monument sign and then we would have a, Klm do we have a sign by the front door or inside the lobby? Kim Jacobsen: Inside the lobby. Randy Schultz: Just on the monument sign there by the plaza. Mayor Chmiel: I guess I want it to look like a bank and. Randy Schultz: We envlsion no signs up on [he face of the building. CouncJ. luoman Dimler: No outward signage then? Hayor Chmiel: Right. Ursula? Councilwoman Dimler: Are we just discussing the site plan revleu rlght now or l guess my other, one of my concerns is that I had was on the Market Bird. access. We're not discussing that rlght now? Mayor Chmiel: No. Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. Otherwise Z 11ke the plan. Mayor Chmiel: Well I shouldn't say no. The accesses are there. There is an access on Harket Blvd. and there's also one on West 79th Street ~o there are two. Councilwoman Dimler: Right. I guess the one on Market Blvd., my comment on that is that I read the staff report that said something about we could try it this way for 2 years and if there aren't too many accidents we'll revlew it. ~ don't like to plan for- accidents. I think we should do it rlght the flrst time and whatever way that ls. Just that 11ttle optlon there dldn't set right wlth Charles Folch: When Strgar took a look at, after staff had requested Strgar to evaluate the possibility of constructing a left turn Zand there, basically to take a look at the undeveloped parcels. What they're zoned for. What the potential retail development is and they try and make projections as to what the trafflc volunleS are golng to be and such. There's always a chance that their estimation of traffic votumes may be hlgh. They could be lo~. Z mean we're worklng wlth a lot of unknowns based on what happens with development. It was staff's thought in considering this and in considering the formulas that are used to predlct traffic generations that maybe it would be an acceptable compromise to, simlce we dldn't have concrete evidence that no, this should not be allowed, that maybe it would be prudent to at least allow the situation to occur on a basis whlch we would evaluate the situation and if we determined or if it's found [hat it is a problem, it could be typically depicted by having 2 or more accidents there J.n a given timespan of ~ year. That maybe we should 36 City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 close off that access. But at this point in time we don't have any traffic numbers or criteria that say no, that that shouldn't be there. Councilwoman Oimler: Okay, well I guess my comment to that would be that we know the bank will stay there. At least hopefully. We know that there's going to be more development and we should plan right now for optimum traffic. Paul Krauss: One question. When we asked Strgar to take a look at this, they dld it on full development of the downtown. But full development can change. Z mean if ue have several funiture stores downtown it generates x level of trafflc. Zf ue have a Target and a K-Mart downtown, it's something else again. So they tried to give us the worst case scenario and under the worse case scenario, this appeared to be safe and there appeared to be sufficient opportunity to make that turn. But as Charles said, I mean we initially had some concerns about the thing. That's why we asked Strgar to look at it in the first place and we're comfortable with what they're telling us is the best information we have and that this is a reasonable thing to do but again there's a lot of, dountoun's changing and we're working with the best information we can but it's always tough to know within perfect certainty that it's going to work ail along so we wanted to throw that in there just in case a problem did develop. We don't expect it to happen but just in case. Councilwoman Dimler: Now if changes needed to be made in the future, who would pay for that? Has that been stipulated? Paul Krauss: No it hasn't. It would, if a change was to be made in the future, what would have to happen ls I suppose the nose of that curb, of the lsland would have to be extended out past there. It's not a tremendous expense but we could probably clarify that. Councilwoman Dimler: Okay, thank you. I guess at this point that's all I have. Mayor Chmiel: The item that caught my eye Paul was on the roofing materials. Certainly the type quallty shake would certainly enhance the buildlng as I look at it. Is this Timberline or simllar quality shingle, I've seen some of these asphalt fake shlngles and that's what they look like. Is there a reason ue don't want to go with a higher quality roofing, more natural rooflng? Or can I just assume that thls Timberline, you're happy with that it's golng to give some appearance? Paul Krauss: I thlnk if we had our druthers you might get shake but ue went through this when the hotel came through. They had originally proposed shake and then realized that (a), they couldn't afford it. (b), they couldn't meet fire regulations with it because I don't think they were able to get a treated roof system. $o we went then ulth the Timberline stuff which we've seen elsewhere and it's certainly not a shake shingle but it looks a lot better than the other one. Mayor Chmiel: I have to agree with that. That was something that we discussed fairly extensively. Councilman Wing: The only other comment was on landscaping. We're now the tree city and we're coming up with all this information on how important trees are 37 City Council Needing -- Hatch 9, 1992 and how they shake and they cool anct parking lot standards and one we're looklng ,zt a seminar coming up requires 50~ shading on all parklng lots just for heat reduction. I guess T'd 11ke to encourage and I wish you could do more so here. I.ess of the small juleps and junifer and the ornamental trees. We're kind of comlng out of what T call the drab pralrie appearance of Chanhassen. Everytlme tile. University conies out and shoots the city for a picture that's attractive, they shoot into the trees. If plck up the church, they shoot into the trees and they keep picking up our treellne as our natural amenities. Thls bank is kind of comlng in one of the maybe we call it the pralrie settlngs that don't have al,y trees and I guess I'd like to see us encourage less or,amentals and higher shade, trees to meet some of the aesthetics that I'd 11ke to see the clty start adopting and also get into the cooling and reduction of these heat islands that we've got so I thlnk that taller shade trees, I'd 11kc to see encouraged. And the smaJl ornamental shade trees discouraged a 11ttle bit more. So I don't tend to change or make a comment here other than to say I would have liked to have seen more helght to the trees. Paul Krauss: He and I ~ere just noddlng to each other. I thlnk we can work with the architect and developer to add those or subsitute. Councilman Wing: I think it would really enhance the property now and in the future and also it doesn't hlde the buildlng as much as these smaller trees. It starts to grow. It seems [o leave the buildlng a 11ttle more open. Thank you. Hayor Chmiel: Toni. Cou,cilma~ Workman: Good point. The number of employees, 6. Is that intended for long range? Randy Schultz: Oh ,o. That's just a day one. Councilman Workmal~: Pardon me. Randy $chultz: That's just a day one. Councilman Workman: Day one? Randy Schultz: I would hope that that would be much higher very soon. Mayor Chmiel: They have a lot of customers that's going to necessitate addJ. tional help and I'm sure that's what Randy's probably looking at. Randy Schultz: We're just talking about what might be the actual permanence, the hlred staff here perhaps or, the very flrst day and that may change. That may be a l~ttle higher. I'll probably have some people up from our other offices here the first several weeks also. Councilman Workman: I don't have a whole lot of concerns or questions. Ursula the comment you brought up, I think we'd better fix that now. I don't know that t~e have a problem there but I'm trying to imagine the letter that we'd write. Dear Americana Bank. We're going to close your westerly entrance... Love, Ursula. Or something of that in there. $o I think it'd better get fixed rlght here and now or else, I don't think there's going to be a whole lot north of the 38 City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 track there for action and you're going to be able to see it coming from wherever so I don't have a problem wlth it. Mayor Chmlel: Mlchael. Councilman Mason: My only comment's more of a general one. It looks really nice. I was reading through the Plannlng Commission notes and Commissioner Farmakes was talklng about the whole flavor of the clty and how maybe we need to look at how much our building's are starting to look alike. I have no quibble at all wlth thls. It's far too late in the game even if I did but Z thlnk maybe in the future that is something we should be looking at. And then we start getting 1nrc some other things 11ke Tom and I were just talking about. Well then you get the real drastic differences 8o just ~omething to think about but no, I thlnk thls looks great. Mayor Chmiel: Any other discussion? If hearing none. Councilwoman Dlmler: Just a minute. On the page 12 of the staff report. Z just had a question under the subdivision dealing with the second, 2(b). Are we st111 ca111ng thls Crossroads Plaza? Because when I read that Z thought you were talking about the old. Sharmln Al-Jarl: Thls one ls Crossroads Plaza 2nd Addition. The first one. Councilwoman Oimler: Okay, so the name remains the same. You're not talking about Crossroads Bank here? Okay. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, I'd 1Lke to get a motion to cover the three items. That being the slte plan revlew for 11,468 square feet, two story bank and offlce building. Councilman Workman: So moved. Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second? Councilwoman Dlmler: Second wlth a clarification of the point that I brought up and Tom agreed that we should settle that here. Anybody else want to discuss that? Do you have any concerns Richard or? Mayor Chmlel: Regarding Market. Councilwoman Dimler: The access proposal. Councilman Wing: I have to trust staff on that I guess but to have it worded after so many accidents. Zt's sort of maklng an assumption here and I guess that's really. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Normally most banks would have two ways of in and out. guess I don't object to the access out on Market Blvd.. The only thing that would try to see ls if that's golng to be a left hand turn, that they have arrows marking or signs marking indicating where they should be to either make a rlght turn or a left turn. That should be the... City Council M~;et..i. ng-- March 9, ].992 Randy Schuitz: If I could make one comment about that. Let me assure the Council that the iast thing the Americana Bank wants to have is a situation where ue have a bunch of customers that are driving out of our iot and getting in accidents. I can assure you th.ts is very important for us to be abIe to have o~mr customers be able to turn and go down Harket Street. We think it's vitai for us from a standpoint of havil~g lhe fac~lity that's accessible to cut potentiai customers as their other choice. But the iast thing we're going to be willing to tolerate or be willing to put up with is a situation where customers are in any danger whatsoever with our facility. $o I can assure you that if any problem like that deveIops, we wiIi be taking action Iong before the city uouid have taiked to us about taking action. Councilwoman Dimler: Yeah, and it's not my intention to limit your accesses so I would propose [hat ue remove condition 14 on page 12 there entirely and if and when a situation does develop that is hazardous, handle it through the public safely department. Councilman Workmal~: I amend my motion to remove 14. Hayor Chmiel." And will you accept that as your friendly amendment. Councilwoman I]imier: Thank you. Councilman Workman: Are we approving a, b and c here Don? Mayor chmiel: No, we're just [aking item a. Counc/lman Workman moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to approve Site Plan ~g2-1 as shoan on the site plan dated February 27, 1~g2, subject to the following conditions: The applicant must obtain a sign permlt prior to erectlng any signage on site. .Stop signs shall be installed at both exit points located on Market Boulevard and West 7gth Street. Landscaping along the north edge of the site must be modified to meet all requirements of the railroad. The applicant shall provide staff with a detalled cost estimate of landscaping to be used in calculating the requlred financial guarantees. These guarantees must be posted prlor to buildirlg permit issuance. Provide a plant schedule indicating the size and type of all plant nlaterlals for staff approval. 3. The applicant shall provide the city with the necessary financial securities to guarantee installation of the required publlc improvements and costs associated with the traffic study. 4. Revise at'chitectural plans as follows: Incorporate the use of Timberline o~' similar quality shingles that provide an image of a cedar shake roof. b. Provide details of building exterior treatment for staff approval. 40 City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 5. A grading and drainage plan, including storm seuer calculations for a 10 year storm event prepared by a professional engineer be submitted to the Clty Englneer for revleu and approval. 6. The applicant shall indicate on the site plan utilities coming into the buildlng and addltion and fire hydrants in the vicinity. ?. The applicant shall include construction of the driveway aprons, any median improvements, sldewalk and boulevard restoration in the site improvements. All boulevard restoration, sidewalk, driveways, and median improvements shall be constructed in accordance wlth the latest edltion of the Clty's Standard Specifications and Detail Plates (1992). Oetailed plans and specifications shall be prepared by a professional engineer and submitted for approval by the City Engineer. 8. The appplicant shall be responsible for all damage to the City's existing public improvements (i.e. streets, sidewalks, utilities). The applicant shall provide a turnaround area at the east side of the proposed building. 10. The northerly l& parking stalls shall be labeled "Employee and Tenant Parking Only". 11. The width of the easterly curb cut off of Market Boulevard shall not exceed 26 feet. 12. Plans for the plaza shall be submitted to city staff for approval. 13. Type I erosion control fence shall be installed along West 79th Street and Market Boulevard. 14. Deleted. 15. The applicant shall utilize the existing Market Bouelvard access and provide a striping and signing plan for a left turn lane on southbound Market Boulevard. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Mayor Chmiel: The next item is the final plat approval. Item b. Can I have a motion? Councilman Workman: So moved. Councilwoman Oimler: Second. Mayor Chmiel: It's been moved and seconded. Any discussion? 41 City Coul~c:.il I~eetil~cj -- Harch 9, 1992 Councilman Workman moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to approve the subdivision proposal with the following conditions: .%. Park and trail dedication fees shall be paid at time of building permits are requested. 2. Provide the follouing easements~ a. Standard drainage and m,tility easements atom,nd the perimeter of all lots. b. The fi'l'lal plat for Crossroads Plaza 2nd Addltion must be submitted to st~ff For approval and filed with Carver County. Ali. voted in favor and the motion carried unanimommsly. Mayor Chmiel: Ttem C. Public Hearing vacating the underlying plat and ea..-'.enl~:nts of Crossroads Plaza Addition. Councilwoma~ 01ruler: Z move approval oF 1(em (c). 6(c). Councilman Itason~- Second. Nayo~' Chmiol: Tt's been moved and seconded. Any discussion? Resolmmtion ¢g2-~4: Com,ncilwoman Oimler moved, Councilman ~ason seconded to approve the vacation of the following easements.' 1. The easterly 5 feet of Lot 1, and the westerly 5 feet of Lot 2, Block 1, Crossrosds Plaz~ Addition. 2. The cross access easement located along the common lot line of Lots i and 2, 81ock .%, Cross'roads Plaza Addition. ~11 voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. hl~>'or Chm.iel: That completes that. Co~.tncllman Morkman' bid we ever close the public hearlng? Councilwoman Dimler: No. Mayor Chmie.l.: No .T. didn't. Would someone make a mnotion to close the publlc hearlng. Councilwoman DJ. ruler: Z move we close the public hearing. Idayor ChmieZ: )'s there a second? Councilman Mason". Second. 42 City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Mason seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed. Paul Krauss: Could we get you to act on one more thing? Could you withdraw the original site plan approval for Crossroads Bank just so we can clear the file. Councilman Mason: I'll move it. Councilwoman Oimler: Second. Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Oimler seconded to withdraw approval of Site Plan ~89-6 for the Crossroads National Bank building concurrently with the approval of Site Plan ~92-! for Americana Bank. The applicant should file the notice of withdrawal against the property at Carver County. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. PUBLIC HEARING: MODIFICATION OF PROGRAM FOR O~¥ELOPMENT O~STR~CT NO. 2; MODIFICATION OF THE PLAN FOR TAX )NCR~MENT FINANCING DISTRICT NO, 2-1; AND ADOPTING A NEW PLAN FOR TAX INCREMENT FINANCING DISTRICT NO. 2-2. Councilman Workman: I'd move approval unless there are. Mayor Chmiel: There might be some. Councilman Workman: Okay. So I'll still move approval if somebody wants to second it for discussion. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Is there a second? Councilman Mason: Second. Mayor Chmiel: It's been moved and seconded. Discussion. Anyone with discussion? Hearlng none I'll call a question. Oh, call that back. We're going to close the public hearing. Councilman Mason: Oh, I'll make a motion to close the public hearing. Councilwoman Dimler: Second. Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed. Mayor Chmiel: Now, I have a motion to adopt the new plan for tax increment financing District No. 2-2. With the modifications to the plan. Can I have a motion? Councilwoman Dimler: Could I ask a question? Mayor Chmiel: Certainly. 43 Ci[y COLtI'~CJ..~ MeeL.i. ng --March 9, 1992 Councilwoman Dimler: 41right. This is already within a district and now we're Inodifyir, g certain parcels within that district. What are the exact implications here ti]at we're [alking about? How does this change the circumstances of this si[e that isn't alre,~dy in there because they're par[ of a district already? Todd Gerhardt: Z have a map that better describes lt. What you're dolng tonlght is, you already have an existing distrlct called 2-1 and what you're doing ls you're modifying that dj. strict to say that you're golng to use tax inc'rement dollars to potentially a buy a middle school somewhere down the line. You'll make another nlodiflcatlon when you designate a site for that and you'll krlo~ exactly the dollars that you'll be spending on that site. So that will be a future modification. So right now you're saying that you're going to spend tax ~ncrement dollars in the future to buy a middle school and also you can use '~ax .i'~crement dollars to pay for upgrading of Audubon Road and the cost dssocZate, d with Lhat. Some of those costs, they're talking abou~ a traffic s.i. gl~al sometime down the line on TH 5. You've already done some work on Audubon [h,{t wasl~'t included in your past economic development district plan. The second thlng that you're doing tonight is that you are expanding or creating a new ali.strict caiJ. ed 2-2 highlLghted in the red. You are expanding your special assessment reduction program to provlde incentives to what ls the Chanhassen B~tsiness Center ~hat Ryan brought through here approximately 2 months ago so lt's the same program, the 3 years worth of taxes to help wrlte down speclals in ].and. Councilwoman Dlmler: And we're saylllg then that we're 11mitlng the school slte to 2~.1.? l'odd Gerhardt: Those monies from 2.-1 would be used to acqulre the school slte. Councilwoman Oimler: Okay, and it has to be in that district then? Todd Gerhardt: Zt's the increment dollars created from the blue, the taxes crea~ed From the blue dlstrict would be solely used to buy a middle school property. Councilman Wing: Even if it was to the west? Todd Gerhardt: Anywhere within that dark black line. Councilman Wing: Okay. Todd Gerhardt: Tl,at's where you'd have to buy a school. Councilwoman Dimler: Oh, okay. It doesn't have to be in the blue area? Todd Gerhardt: No, Mayor Chmiel: Todd, I just have one question. I guess I don't have it, maybe you have it, modified development program for development district no 2. In here it indicates that attached to this modification ls exhlblt A. A map. dJdn't have it in my packet. Todd Gerhardt: You didn't have a map like this? 44 City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 Mayor Chmiel: No. Todd Gerhardt: Okay. What this map does is highlights. Mayor Chmiel: You're right. I've got it here. It's way in the front. Here it is. As Attachment i and it isn't entltled as £xhibit A. Todd Gerhardt: Hy mistake. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. And that should be Exhibit A? Todd Gerhardt: Correct. Also you'i1 notice that you got a park acquisition in there. Chanhassen Business Park and you're going to have to acquire some land to put that 11ft station on so you could use tax increment dollars to provide that money. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, good. Thank you. call a question. Any other discussion? Hearing none, Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve Resolution ~92-35(A) adopting the modification of the program for Development District No. 2, Modification of Plan for Tax Increment Financing District No. 2-2; and approve ResoIution ~92-35(B) for the creation of a new plan for Tax Increment Financing District No. 2-2. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. PUBLIC HEARING: MODIFICATION NO. 11 OF THE REDEVELOPMENT TAX INCREHENT FINANCING PLAN. Public Present: Name Addreas Fritz Coulter 7616 Frontier Trail Todd Gerhardt: What you have in front of you tonight is a modification to the redevelopment district in the downtown. Both the Planning Commission and the HRA have approved thls plan with the 9 1rems 11sted here as the modification to that plan. You should also note on the map, this map here, that we're expanding the project area boundaries to use increment dollars to buy right-of-way and pay for public improvements to the new access to Lake Ann. The road that would go along the southerly part of the Eckankar property. Mayo[- Chmiel: On the north side of TH 57 Todd Gerhardt: Correct. Can you see that on the map? Also included in that modification is that the HRA is looking at and is still taking citizen comments on the central park acquisition and sometlme in the future they uant to build a senior houslng project and construction of a public library on the Pony/Pauly/ Pryzmus slte. And wlth that you would expand the Heritage Park design. Acquisition of the Hanus building along TH 5. HRA has authorized staff to enter lnto a purchase agreement with that development. Construction of a senior center that I think it's your next meeting you will be awarding bids on. 45 City Council Mee. ti~g -- March 9, 1992 liayor Chmiel: When did we acquire some of those properties that you just got throttgh mentionJ~g? And how does this affect the tax increment financing di.'.-;trict? We're not extending that period of time. Zt's still all still cont,.~.tned within the time that oas allocated, whether it be a 5 or 8 or 10 year period. Todd Gerhardt: This is a redevelopment district. Zt goes out to the Year 2003. So you've got potentially that time period unless, you know we've been talking about maybe closing the district out early and it's continually brought up during our goals sessions and it will be of no effect. Construction on West ?Sth Street detachment. That project had not been included as a part of a special assessment reduction program. You also include project numbers that qualify for that program. That hasn't been included. TH 5 entry monument improvements. Those are your signs in front of the Holiday and at the, just to the south of the bank that you saw tonight that the HR~ has reviewed and will present to City CounciJ. when you have further drawings or plans and specs for those ~mprovements. ~nd someday the depot relocation and restoration, as soon as we find a home for it. Mayor Chmiel: Very good. Todd Gerhardt: If there's any other questions regarding any of these. I think there ~nay be some people from the audience that may want to comment on this if you will answer any of their questions. lt,'.~yor Chmiel: Good. ~e'll do that. As I mentioned, this is a public hearing. anyone has any concerns or questions regarding the particular project, come Forward and please indicate your name and your address. Fritz Coulter: Good evening. My name is Fritz Coulter and my address is 7616 Frontier Trail..i.n Chanhassen. I just want to go on record as being one individual amongst many iii my particular neighborhood who are against the central park and spending about a million and a half dollars on a piece of proper'fy to plant trees on. I'm not against trees and if any of you walk past by I~ouse yOU can verify that. I have more trees per square foot than any other ].ot ir, this town. I just feel that that property over there can be better used for something than to put a park there. Chanhassen is blessed with an abundance of parkland and I'm including things such as the ~rboretum, Hinnewashta Park, as well as t.ake ~nn, Bandimere Heights, all the residential parks. Put this in over here serves absolutely no purpose. ~bsolutely none. I can see no reason at all why we need to spend a million and a half dollars, that's the quote that I vas seeing in the paper anyway. Up to a million and a half and that's what it would end up to be, for something like that. Take that million and a half, go down and develop Bandimere Heights Park. ~dd things to Lake Ann that you want [o add. Bo those things. The things that are going to help the people immediately. People are not going to drive up from Lake Riley to sit out here. They want ~o have a park in their back yard. The property's there. Develop it for them. The same thing with Lake ~nn. That's where people go to enjoy themselves. You're not going to find an overwhelming number of people coming to sit up here and do this. If they're going to go someplace, they want to see something of that nature, they're going to go out to the ~rboretum. Two miles west of here, that's it. They're going to hit that place. I guess I'm a little confused on the reasoning as to why the park wa~ts to be there and or why 46 City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 there's a need for the park there. I also realize that the HRA is making their recommendation on this and I'm probably too late to do anything agalnst it because once thlngs progress to a point 11ke thls, lt's usually a done deal and ue have to live with it. But I do want to express my concern that this kind of money ls being spent for something 11ke that when it can be spent a whole heck of a lot better on other park property within the community. I guess that's all I have to say. Mayor Chmiel: I guess maybe one of the points that need clarification. Because it's contained within the TIF district, we can't go outside that TIF district and take that money and put it into other parks. Number one. That park that's existing right nov or would be as a park. ~ould be taken out of the TIF money. See everything contained wlthln a TIF district you cannot go outslde of those boundaries with those dollars to do that. Am I correct? Todd Gerhardt: That's correct. Mayor Chmiel: So consequently it could be done. The only other thlng that we talked about at the HRA is that we thought it would add a 11ttle blt more something to the downtown by having the park in and adjacent, a place for community gathering for the different functions that we have going on during the year. Coulter Orive that's existing right now would be relocated from where it ls to the back side and that would st111 be carried through wlth that same name. $o the street won't be completely eliminated. Just for your. Fritz Coulter: That's of no concern to me. I know you've got letters from my mother and other members of my family. That's no concern to me about Coulter Drive. Mayor Chmiel: No, but it is to me and I wanted you to know that that's still going to be the road be it in front or in the back. But the public hearing is st11], open on thls particular property that we're looklng at. We don't have any idea as yet what the total dollars are even though an estimate was there. So that's really hard to say and we don't know that until we get a prlce quote and that quote has not been given. Fritz Coulter: Okay. Like I say, basically I'm just going based on what I saw in the paper and also having worked for the government and doing bids for the government, I know lt's golng to be that much. That's a fact of 11re. No bld comes in on schedule or priced. It's always over so I mean if you're guessing it's golng to be $900,000.00 to $1.4 million, it's golng to be more. Oon Ashworth: A couple of points. Number one, the approval of a concept plan for this area to be a park 11ke setting ls just that. In other words you cannot move the library onto what is the Pauly/Pony/Pryzmus slte until at least mld-1994 wlth the earlier construction belng lgg4-g5. You cannot enhance thls area then, lower area as for senior citizens until that point in time. The road really can't come out untll that polnt in tlme. So a number of these 1rems, cost elements will be 3-4 years from today. Maybe 5. The other part that was discussed by the HRA was, in drlving through Chaska a lot of times that park area downtown isn't just always being used but it's part of the downtown. It's just part of the imagery and lt's part of what makes Chaska what it is. And the ability to do something like that with this piece of property, recognizing that CiI. X count.il MeeJ::[n<.i --M,.:rch ?, 1992 Market Square is: Uoing in across thc; street. Tile remainder of the development is going to go to the west s,:~ys lllat the center of this town is right here. And lo thlnk about it a~gal]l like a 3 story Days Znn as it might be plunked onto this vacant parcel over here, basically elinlinates where is downtown. On the o~her ¢id~.-. ~f the cola, you've got institutional uses here rlght now. City Hall, the Bank, the Post OfFlce, ~he Fire Station, tile school. Why not enhance the ;.mayer>, of 'that. Zf you ~urn this green from here to ?8th Street, it looks as though it's O~le piece of ground. .T.t looks like many of the small town ~merlca's Lh~}t have a courtyard. A park. Or a courthouse in the center of their downtown kind of anchoring it a~rld 1' ~hink those were some of the things that the HRA was tr>,ing to get at. Nom. necessarily, j.t will be a focal polar for activities as businesses get goil~g and T honestly think ~h,'~t the businesses will come across the street and wl].1 sell. their hot dogs and you'll have the band there and pc. ople wlll el~joy and ~ ~.l~lnk ~hey will drlve from the Bandimere area and they wil. 1 come up hPre and they will have a tier dog and a piece of plzza. But you kno~ .T. think it w,'~s the sum total1 of all of those things, not just a park. Fritz Coulter: To me the sum total still doesn't add up to what you want to do. ]'t':< just, ~.rying to draw comparlson~ between Chaska's park which started out as ~ park and the. c::ity was basically bullt around lt, and now Chanhassen having a city and tryirlg to a park in the middle of J.L are two differerlt things. Cha~ka'~ Js right there on TH 41. You go past it because you're on TH 41. Here Lile only way you'r'~; going to get to it is coming down ?Bth Street. I d~re ,-.x'm~ybod>' to try to get on 78th Street thls summer. Ursula was concerned about ,tccidents. .~ have ~ feellng there's going to bo ~ lot of them dOWrl at the ~ntr.-'.rsp..ctJon of l'~l 101 where the Blnner Theatre ls because of all the dumping of [raffic onto tidal because of all the construction going on in town. It's not a focal point. They're not going to d'rive past it. They're going to drive past on TI4 5 ~nd never see i[. ~. r'eaJ, ize what yOU're trying to do but Chanhassen .[s not ,t small town. .T.t was when ~' u~s growing up. 4 years ago it was a small town but it's rolo[ ;.tnymore -~nd trying to keep that atmosphere ~ust isn't going to work. Zt's ]lke trying to ~;ay ~'den PraJ. rJ.e [las a downtown. Tt doesn't. And >,ow'ye got t.h~¢ s,~me tl~i~g. You can draw comparisons between what is downtown Chanh~ssen and CR 4 and TH 5 J.~l Eden Pralrie. Zt's almost exactly the same. You've got ;~ SuperAmerica, w:~.'ve got ¢~ Holid,~y. They've got ~ bank, we've got a bank. They've gel ~ Burger King, we've got a Mc:Donald's. That's downtown. Th~tt's wheat it is. It's strLp malls. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah but hopefully that's not what we're trylng to strive to Fritz Coulter: Z know it's not what you're trying to strive for but that's what Idayor Chmiel: You may see the difference and that's the differences of opinion from wl'~,~[ you have a~d we respect that but we may have another thought behind it. To see something else within the community as to what we're really looking Foe to achleve for the downtown and ~ think we're going in the right direction as far as the Cl[y Councll is concerned. We're looklng to get that kind of a~'s~thetlcs withi~ theft downtown to make it a little bit different than Eden Prairie. 48 City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 Fritz Coulter: I wish you luck. I just wish you wouldn't spend the tax money on it. And that's what it is. I know it's tax increment financing but it doesn't make any difference whlch pocket you take it out of for me. It's still tax money and I can think of better ways to spend it than on that. Don Ashworth: I would disagree with that as well from the standpoint. You may be taking it out of different pockets but I sincerely believe that it would never go lnto your other pocket. It would go to Minneapolis. It would go to St. Paul. It would go to the State Capitol but it would not go directly to your pocket. Fritz Coulter: Oh I realize it's not going to go back into my pocket. Once you take it out of my pocket, it never goes back in. I'm not that naive. Mayor Chmiel: Unless there's a hole in it right? Thank you. Anyone else? Okay, we'll close the public hearing. Can I have a motion? Councilman Hason moved, Councilwoman Oimler seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed. Mayor Chmiel: Discussion. Councilwoman Oimler: Do you want me to start? Mayor Chmiel: Go ahead. Councilwoman Dimler: When I looked at this and I looked at the proposals here and most of them I have a feeling for that I want. Some I question but I guess just in comment to Mr. Coulter's concerns I too, I have a problem with HRA money in particular because ue kind of think of it as funny money. I know that there's a thousand other projects that we would rather see done but they just don't happen to be within the districts and ue can't create new districts. And so it leaves me frustrated as ue11 to know that this money ls there and lt's going to be spent and it may be something that we thlnk is a frivolous project uhen we could be dolng other thlngs with it but the fact ls that lt's here and we do have to make these tough decisions on what to do with that type of money. I guess I wlll go ahead and approve of all thls even though some of the projects I do question, especially the depot since ue don't have a location for it yet. And you know, some of those things and I understand the citizens' concerns on this and they're saying why are ue spending so much money on these seemingly frivolous projects. But just also, when he brought up the Eden Pralrle. I guess I have a feeling for then that now Eden Prairie does wish that they did have a downtown area. They are so sorry that they dldn't plan for it so in that respect I hope that we don't make that same mistake and I would approve of the modification. Mayor Chmiel: I guess I'd just like to interject just a little bit more to that. I've had a lot of people who have come to Chanhassen and see what we have now in comparison to what we had before and have made a lot of very posltive comments to me. My recently from one of my bosses who's sister just so happens, not to live in Chanhassen but does live in Minnetonka. She does work for cltles not developing either. And she made a comment to him that she was really sort 49 C.Lty CouncJ.]. lteot.i, ng -- Ha'rc:h 9~ of taken aback by the lhougl','t '.and the consiclerations that have been given to th.is communj, ty. And she tl~ought and she goes to o'.tries m~ybe 2 or 3 a week to do th.i.s. She indicated there that it's really sort et nice and he said Z ~ust i~appe~ to the guy that's the Hayer of that city. He works for me. And I thought that was a good comment and I get those comments all the time. From 9oJ. ng OLtl and t,~lkin9 to other people in other cities as I do J.n my normal job. Everyone says you're r~.'..ally doing it right and Z feel real comfortable with it. r<icl~ard. Cour~ci]man Wing: I guess ~'11 just throw a comment out because i~'s my own opinion. Late at night behind locked doors in the privacy of my home I uear a t-shJ, rt and on the t-shirt it says, I love Bill Horrish. 3ust so that the recof'd pJ, cks t l~J.s up, Bill Morrish .i,s head of Landscape 0esign and whatever at the Univ~.rsity of Minnesota and Bill took me up on the top of that hill one Satt.tr¢lay morning and ~ooked at (he city and he said, whatever you do don't bury city Hall. Protect sight lines. Keep as a center and a focal point and that's wh,-.~t kicked the city evil,er park off and BJ. ll had some very valid points that r,i'o,ier;t decades J. nto the future. $o when this was proposed, I said good for ~ill and good for' Chanhassen for I~ickJ. ng up on it. I see it much more th~n a pa'r'k, ]3 see J.t as an open space in front of City Hall protecting it as a focal pn.~nt, Z think th~tt's impel'rant uhen cities build. non A...,;hworth'. Hr. Hayer? Ita)'or Chmiel: Yes, Don Ashuorth: Z[ I may bring up, Councilman Wing brought up Bill Morrish. This mornlng he dropped off ~o me, I~ui.tdln9 a Community Across the Corridor. A case :sturly integra[i~g urban design, ecotogy. A new parkway model for Chanhassen, NJ. nlleOota. Zf Z could disl:ribute those. Z (hink we got z lot of good brlef r,'r'¢.;.'.~s out of that. counci.[man WJ. n9: Was tha[ your only comme~t? r~on Ashworth: Well Z support your position that Bill should remain as a viable factor in our nexL group of planning processes. Cot~ncilman Wlng: Back before this all started, if I could just interject a commen~ Mr'. Mayor having to do with this? Hayer Chmiel: No. Okay. Councilman Wing: When I inet with Bill but his people, they handed me a book From someplace in New England ul~ere an entire river valley, and the communities that sald we're not going to do it the way it used to be. We're going to have a Fridley sy~drome and they cre,'-.tted an entire new way of developing their land and cluctering and so on and so forth. I uas so exclted about that and I've brought J( back and we passed out papers to the Council ,~ year and a half ago or what. ever'. This is the same thln9 that excited me out in New England except it's ol.t~' cJ. ty this time. Now those people i~ New England are looking at this saying, boy ls that something. That's really wonderful. This ls really exciting to see ou~' city in a creatlve posture like this. The other cities around us ought to he drooling as far as I'm concerned. Th~s J.s really significant. 5O City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 Mayor Chmiel: It's neat. It really is. Councilman Wing: Have you seen this Mr. Lappic? The newspaper should see this. Councilman Workman: Again Richard's comments and he talked a lot about this at the work session that we had and there's an awful lot of hours spent on HRA meetlngs and Council meetings and work sessions and planning commissions and the clty is really left with very little or very few tools to do what they want to do wlth their clty. The one tool we have of course ls to leave things go and we have plenty of photographs of how the city used to look and maybe it doesn't matter how the city used to look. At least people 11red and maybe they dldn't care but we do have a downtown and a viable downtown but it was because of some long range planning that used the tool, or one of the very few tools, tax increment, that a city has to do these things. And this list of 9 things, none of them can be done wlthout tax increment financing. I guess the tiger chasing the tail scenario would be without tax increment financing we may not have some of the developments in town that are drivlng the fundlng for these thlngs. So if you don't have, if you can't lure the development into the town to get the, encapture the tax increment, you can't do these things. When our fore fathers purchased the land for Lake Ann, they were spending our tax dollars. I'm assuming there's a referendum and the people voted and said yeah, let's buy all the property around Lake Ann. If they hadn't done that, it would be a completely different place. I may not, and some people may have hoped that I didn't live here but it's a nice place to live. It's getting to be an even nlcer place despite the growth that we have and so these things, the public library, a central park are places where people can go to get away from it and- not have to go too darn far. I don't thlnk we have enough. And I guess I'll respond to Fritz. He mentioned in a letter that Mr. Workman's children want this park. Well that's something of a stretch there meaning the Mayor's grandkids, Ursula's children, everybody's children, a place for them to go for these things. The 4th of 3uly Celebration ls huge in this town. I guess we're going to maybe get some bad weather some time and maybe it won't be but we have all sorts of thlngs golng on. We have people wlth the Chamber and with the businesses in town that are organizing and planning art fairs and musicals and things that Chaska does have that we don't. Or are unable to organize so those are some of the things that I think an awful lot of people who moved out here anyway are interested in and are wllling to have us put up. And so I don't 11ke to defend all of them. The acquisition of the Hanus building, I can't think of anythlng more excltlng than that. But it is part of a long range plan for the clty that if we didn't have the tool, we would be unable to take care of some problems. We took care of how many leaking gas stations in this town and replaced them with video stores and places where people can shop you know. And so I don't know Todd, you're going to have to once ina while get the slide projector out and show us what it all looked like. I don't know, I guess you can take one thing like the park and pull it out and say not a good idea but it's a part of a whole plan I think that commissions and councils and housing and redevelopment authorities have looked at and have all looked at and I thlnk pretty much agree. Mayor Chmiel: Michael. Councilman Mason: I think it's all been pretty much said. 51 C~i.y CouF~cJ.i Mc'c['~r:9 M~ti'c[i ~}, 1.992 M,~yor Chmie]: Okay. £ounci].man Workman." I approve ltodification No. 11 of the redevelopment tax .[nc'r omelet financing. Mason: I'].l second Resolution ¢92-36: Councitman Workman moved, Councilman Mason seconded to adopt Modification No. [! of the Redevelopment P[an and TZF Ptan for the Chanhassen Redevelopment Project. Att voted in favor and the motion carried unanimoust¥. AWARD OF BIDS: LAKE ANN PARK RECREATZON SHELTER. Todd Hoffmar~: Hayor Chmiel and City Cou,cil member's. ~s you are aware, the C¢.ty Council rejected all bids for the project received in the first b&d openings on 3anuary 13th of ~his year'. You then approved minor modification~ ,~nd authorized re~,.tdvertisement for bids for the project. On the morning of Thursday, February 27, ~2 ~2 b~ds that were received were opened. The low bid was from A.L.M. Bmlilders of Waseca, Minnesota itm the amount of $255,963.00. As expressed i~'m the report, this price is an extremely competitive price and could nol be lowered un.less major structural changes were made to the shelter. The cos:t is higl~er than the original target amount, however I do not believe it is in our interest to fLtrther alter the design or function of this shelter in the inter'esl of shaving costs. The shelter will provide valuable service to thousands of paf'k Ltsers each year for many years to come. Funds are currently ;zvaJ. l. able to complete this project and this investment will quietly improve the quality of life of a.ll residents for many years into the future. Whether it be ~.~ birthday paf'ty, a company picnic, a cold drink, the rental of a canoe, bet[er lJ.F;;guard capa[).[litJes, the availability of a public phone or last but not least Fegm.t[ar indoor bathrooms, this shelter will meal~ something to everyone. It is ~herefore recomme~ded that the City Council award the Lake Ann Park picnic/ recreation shelter construction contract to A.L.H. Builders in the amount of $255,963.00 with no alternatives being accepted. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you, Todcl Hoffma]~: I should ;~ote this evening that we have Plax Daubenberger with Van Oo~'~.*.r~.-14az,~r¢l-.GtalJ. ings hel-:~.. He is our project representative. Scott Harri who you all know is also in the audience. He has recently, in good standings, left tl'~r~, employ of ~an Dore, but did work with this pro~ect throughout it's cof~ceptua] phase. Mayor' Cl'lmiel: Any discussion? Councilman Mason: I'd like to move. approval. Oouncilmar, Workman; I'].l second it. Mayor Chmiel: .I['s bee~ moved and seconded with discussion. Co~tnc.Llman Wing: I uoul. d really like, for myself, my own opinion to have expenditures this big go to a referendum. I think we've decided it's best for [he cfty, as ~;e discu.'¢sed these other items. The only thing that tempered that 52 City Council Meeting - March 9, 1992 is I've been stunned by these numbers until I saw the numbers for redecorating the room downstairs. Suddenly these are awful small numbers. Now I'm worried about the numbers for the room downstairs. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, you're right. Bny other discussion? Councilman Mason: Just to comment on that. This is money that's already dedicated to the park fund so. Council. man Workman: It has to go to the park. Councilman Mason: Right. It has to go to the park. Councilwoman Dimler: We're really late in the game here to make any changes. Councilman Mason: And I can't wait to use the facility. Or the bathrooms for my kids. Mayor Chmiel: He can use the ones at home. Councilman Mason: Not the little one. He can't wait that long. Resolution ~92-37: Councilman Hason moved, Councilman Workman seconded to award the Lake Ann Park picnic/ recreation shelter construction contract to A.L.N. Builders in the amount of $255,963.00 with no alternatives being accepted. voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: Mayor Chmiel: One more thing under Council Presentations. I received a letter with a bunch of renderings that were done by the Chaska Middle School. It comes from two of the Mlddle School Art Department teachers, R. Gabrlel and M.J. Moses. It's basically in celebration of the Youth Art Month of March and they are presenting to the Councll orlginal 11noleum prlnts. These prlnts were made by the Middle School students from our community. 4nd they're really proud of the work that these students have done and take pride in sharing thetr work with us. So with that we have each received one and I took the one that I liked the most and I'd 11ke to pass, 11sten they're all great. They're all beautiful, believe me and I'd 11ke to give one to each of the Council. You only get one. And there's only one name that I can't read on it but the one I have is from Lindsey Johnesh. Councilwoman Dimler: And I've got one from Joshua Poison. Mayor Chmiel: Which one do you have Richard? Councilman Wing: Let's see, Sheila Ytzen. Councilman Mason: I have the one from Jill Schwartz. Councilwoman Dimler: Mr. Mayor, before we adjourn. Could I draw attention to this announcement that was on our desk? 53 C.ity Cottr~cJ_JL He~t.[l~g -. MaF,.i~ 9, t992 MCtyoi' ChmJ. el: Yes. Councilwoman bimler-' Okay. Carver County Prevention Netuork has put together a film cai. led tile Shame of it All. It's a 35-40 minute presentation. It's not a film, I'm sorry. It's a play, dea].ing with struggles J.n our lives from dysfunctional families. ~e all consider ourselves qulte normal but the ~ruth of the matter .is tha( we all come from a 11ttle bit of dysfunction. And thls play .[,¢ deslgned to help you get in touch with your own dysfunctions and to know that that's not a bad social stigma. And also it would help us to prevent dysfur~ctions in our presen~ families and hopefully future generations won't have t.o, ~o i.~'~ on Thursday, March 12th at the Waconia Hlgh School, Z:30 p.m.. This ~ a special preview presentation and any community can then later have them come and put it on for a fee. But thls lsa free presentation. Mayor Chmie. l: l'l,ank you. Available for $2.50.00. Councilman Wing: Mr. Mayor, due to the hour, I wanted to brlng up the Section 827(b) City Count. il. through possible reconsideration. Would you like to just carry that over to the next meeting? Mayor Chmielr Let's put i[ on for the next meeting. Co~trlcilman Wing.' On Council Presentations? Idayor Chm.(el: Right. Councilwoman Dimler: What is that dealing with Richard? Mayor Chmiel: March 23rd. Councilman Wing: Okay. And one comment I wou].d just like to make before we .leave and perhaps thls would go on ti'me next agenda also. We opened up the MUSA ].Jne and ~'m wondering why and when we opened it were we prepared for lt? People have tonight addressed the TH 5 corridor. There's a lot going on and I guess I'm leering relatively strong that the rumors of this study should be no longer rumors. I think we have to formally get going on it. I think we're hehlnd. I think we need a task force and I think we need to be up front, follow through and ~ think we need some momentum and I would like to ask that we make a formal task force to help monltor, keep the momentum up on thls issue. Don Ashworth: How about putting that i[em for the 23rd as well. We're also tal. klng about that on the 19th. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, we can discuss that for the next one. Councilman Hason moved, Councilwoman Oimler seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 11:07 S~tbmitted by Ben Ashworth CiLy Manager Prepared by Nann opheim 54