1990 10 22C~$SEN CZTY COUNCZL
REGULI~R NEETIJ~G
OCTOBER 22, 19"90
Hayor Chm[e! called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. The meetLng was opened
with the Pledge to the Flag.
COUMCZL)IEHBERS P~SENT: Hayor ChmieL, Councilwoman Dimler and Councilman
Johnson
¢~XLHE~ ABSENT: Councilman Workman
STPJrF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knutson~ Paul Krauss, Gary Warren, Todd
Gerhardt, Todd Hoffman and Scott Hart
Councilwoman Oimler: Hr. Mayor? For the record, Tom Workman Is slck this
evening and he asked that we all say a prayer for his recovery. He told me he'd
be watching on television to see If I brought it up so I want to tell him that
[ d£d.
Hayor ChmieL: Excuse me, Tom who?
Councilwoman O£mler: Workman.
Councilman Johnson= If he's got the same flu my wife has, I feel sorry for him.
There's a lot of that going around.
~PI~ROU~I. OF i~GENDA: Counc/1woman Dimler moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to
approve the agenda with the following changes: Mayor Chmtel wanted to pull Item
l(f) from the Consent Agenda because it requires a four-fifths vote and withdraw
item number &, John Kl[ngelhutz' PreLiminary Plat. Ail voted in favor of the
agenda as amended and the mot[on carried unanimously.
pUBLIC PJ(N(NJ)M:E~NT: RESOLUTIGN PROCL~IH~ OCTOOER 22-28 ~ ~ R/I)I~
C~lt~I) #EEK ~ ECL~RIN6 CH/~~ ~ DI~-FREE ZONE.
Mayor Chmlel: The proposed resolution that we're adopting will read, a
z'
Resolution establishing the City of Chanhassen as a drug free zone. In
recognizing the Red Ribbon Campaign Week of October 22-28, 1990. Whereas, the
city of Chanhassen is responsible for maintaining the public safety of our
community, and Whereas the City of Chanhassen is committed to fighting back
against the perils of illegal and harmful drug use and abuse, Now Therefore, Be
Zt Resolved by the City Council of the City of Chanhassen as follows:
1. That the City of Chanhassen shall continue to be drug free zone where
illegal and harmful drug use and abuse Is not accepted.
2. That the Week of October 22-28, 1990 will be proclaimed as Red Ribbon
Campaign week during which the City of Chanhassen will recognize It's
national comm[tment to reduce and prevent the abuse of alcohol and other
drugs.
Passed and adopted by the City Council this 22nd day of October, 1990.
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
Resolution ~90-135; Councilman 3ohnson moved, Counciluoman Dimler seconded to
approve the Resolution Proclaiming October 22-28, 1990 as Red Ribbon Campaign
Meek and Declaring Chanhassen as a Drug Free Zone. All voted in favor and the
motion carried unanimously.
Mayor Chmiel: I just wanted to mention one thing. ! did take the opportunity
this week to go through the complete business area and provide these red ribbons
to all the owners of stores, business offices and so on and ask that they would
participate in wearing these red ribbons so if you see people within the
community wearing them, that's support of this particular proposal. We also had
the grade school wear their ribbons as well within town and all the children
within both school systems are wearing them and including Minnetonka School
District. So we feel that we want to keep at least by wearing these, I should
say by wearing these red ribbons and hopefully divert any child from even
thinking about using drugs. If we can just save even one child, it's more than
well worth it.
CO. NSENT AGENDA: Councilwoman Dialer moved, Councilman 3ohnson seconded to
approve the following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Hanager's
recommendat ions:
a. Site Plan Amendment for a 4,260 square foot addition to the existing
building, 7870 Park Drive, Industrial Information Controls.
b. Preliminary Plat to replat a portion of an outlot in Chanhassen Mall
Addition and placement of Market Boulevard, Located south and west of
Chanhassen Bowl, Easy Rider Addition.
c. Approval of 1991 Police Contract.
e. Re~ol~tion ~0-136: Resolution establishing a Seven Member Senior Needs
Commission.
g. Resolutip~ 4190-137: Accept Roadway and Drainage Improvements in Eight Acre
Woods Project 87-29.
h. Resolution ~90-138: Approve Plans and Specifications for TH 5 Expansion
from 2000 feet west of CR 17 to Eastern Carver County line; authorize
Cooperative Agreement, Project 88-28B.
j. Approval of Accounts.
k. City Council Minutes dated October 8, 1990
Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated September 25, 1990
Board of Adjustments and Appeals Minutes dated October 8, 1990
1. Approve Landscaping Contract for Country Hospitality Suites.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
City Council Heeting - October 22, 1990
D. C;[TY CODE ~PIENDI'IENT RE:GARDZNG EXPANDING THE RECYCLZNG PRO6RAN TO ZNCLUDE
COLLECTT. ON OF PLASTICS. FINN. REittOZNG.
Councilwoman Dimler: Item (d) has to do with the amendment regarding the
expanding of our Recycling program to include collection of plastics and I agree
with this 100~. The only question I had and I wonder if someone is here that
could answer it for me. It says here that it costs the hauler $90.00 per hour
to operate that truck and ! wondered if any of them have given us an idea of how
they plan to pass those costs onto the households and how much that will cost
per household.
Victor Hallberg: I'm Victor Hallberg from the Recycling Commission. ! don't
know if Jo Ann has given you some background on that.
Councilwoman Dimler: 3ust a little bit.
Victor Hallberg: Okay. Me certainly analyzed that and we had the haulers
invited to a number of meetings. Forgive my appearance. I'm on my way to play
basketball at the gym next door. Me certainly asked that quest[on of the
haulers, [f they felt there was going to be an expected increase in the rates
and of course that's a private quest[on in the sense that pricing is always very
competitive in the hauling industry and they were unwilling to give us any fix
on that. Mhat they could tell us ks that they were either [n the process or
would soon be [n the process of gearing up to handle plastics and the 3 haulers
who attended our hearings were figuring out ways to most efficiently use their
trucks and modify them for the use of taking in of plastics. So to answer you
question a simple way, no we can't predict that but yes, they are already
working with plastics [n many cases. Some of the haulers didn't show up. Me
don't know what their reaction's going to be but they're modifying their trucks
and they're already doing th~s in test programs tn a variety of different
c~ties.
Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. And they don't know what their increased costs are
yet to the individual?
Victor Hallberg: They're working on efficiency factors and a lot of stuff about
how to handle the plastics part of thetr bus[ness. They probably don't know
right now.
Counc[lwoman Otmler: I just want to make sure [t doesn't get too expensive for
our clttzens.
Victor Hallberg: We were concerned about that as well because we knew if there
was a large rate increase, we're going to see a lot of flack coming up from
there and they did request that the beginning of the ordinance, and I believe
this is in the wording as it will be in the change in the ordinance would not
kick into until April 1. They asked for more time to get their own productivity
and all that kind of stuff in place. That's about it. Jay, do you remember
anything more from that discussion that would be relevant here? You were there.
Councilman 3ohnson: Me also discussed [t a couple nights later at the Carver
County solid waste group and it's looking 11ks the plastics are going to be
going pretty much statew[de pretty quJck. There's a couple companies. They're
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
going to be accepted more. So the market's starting to come around.
Councilwoman Oimler: Okay, so it's going to bring the cost down eventually?
Councilman Johnson: Yeah.
Councilwoman Otmler: Okay. Thank you very much.
Victor Hallberg: Yeah. Uli Sacchet is here also. Uli, did you want to add
anything to that discussion? Okay.
Councilwoman Dimler: Okay, with that information I move approval of item l(d).
Councilman 3ohnson: Second.
Councilwoman D£mler moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to approve the ftnal
reading of a City Code Amendment regarding expanding the Recycling Program to
include Collection of Plastics. All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously.
VISITOR~ PRESENTATION: None.
PVBLIC HE~RING: PROPOSED CITY CODE AMENDHENT AMENDING SECTION 14-61 CONCERNING
THE DEFINITION OF HALT L~QUOR.
Mayor Chmiel: Todd, would you llke to address thls?
Todd Hoffman: Basically what this modification does is correct the defintton of
malt 11quor as it pertalns in our clty code. Malt 11quor ls spoke of in there
and then it's called non-intoxicating as well. Basically what the State Statute
says ls malt 11quor ls non-intoxicating, 3.2 or strong beer. A sign whlch ls
posted or was posted at Lake Ann Park stated you could have only 3.2 beer within
the park. The Sheriff's deputles were taklng that 1nrc consideration when they
did the patrols at Lake Ann and citing people for having strong beer. Giving
them a citation. How this came about ls that then went to court. It came back
to us in a letter from one of the County Attorneys and we just went about
clarifying that through Roger Knutson so it's just a clarification in signage at
the park and as well a clarification of our City Code.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Thank you. Maybe just for your information if anyone
would 11ke to address this. The ordinance basically reads that the definition
in Minnesota Statute Section 340A.101 apply to thls sectlon. (b), no person
shall consume or have in his or her possession while within a city park any
bottle or receptacle whlch contalns intoxicating 11quor except malt beverages
which has been opened, the seal broken or the contents of which has been
partially removed. Is there anyone wishlng to address thls speclflc 1rem? Thls
is a public hearing.
Councilman Johnson: I move we close the public hearlng.
Councilwoman 0imler: Second.
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
Councilman 3ohnson moved, Counct1~oaan O~ler seconded to close the pub]lc
hearing. AL! voted in favor and the aotion carried. The public hearing ~,~ae
c~osed.
Councilman 3ohnson: Does this basically mean that we can now have strong beer
in city parks?
Todd Hoffman: Which ue could previously but it was...
Mayor Chmiel: This basically clarifies that. Okay, any other discussion?
Councilwoman Dimler: Yeah. ! have a question on the way item (b) is stated.
When [ first read it [ thought it sounded a little obscure in the fact that
you're saying here that no person shall consume or have in his or her possession
while within any city park any bottle or receptacle which contains intoxicating
liquor. That [ agree with. Then it says, except malt beverages which have been
opened or the seal has been broken or the contents have been partially removed.
It sounds like that's legal. Could we restate it to say, you know put a period.
Take out except malt beverages in the first sentence. Put a period after
removed. Have a second sentence that says, the only exception is malt beverages.
Did anybody else think it was?
Councilman 3ohnson: Because the except malt beverages.
Councilwoman Oialer: Which have been opened and have been partially consumed.
Councilman 3ohnson: ! think which have been opened isn't, ! agree with you.
Councilwoman Dialer: Yeah. It sounds like you can have that. To me it did
anyway.
Roger Knutson: Maybe ! could suggest that if you put.
Councilman 3ohnson: You can't have closed malt liquor. See that's the way it
reads.
Mayor Chmiel: Go ahead Roger.
Roger Knutson: If you took out where it says except malt beverages and started
that sentence to read, Except for malt beverages, no person shall consume or
have in his or her possession.
Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. 3ust the way it's placed there, it sounds like you
can have malt beverages which have been opened or the seal is broken or the
contents have been partially removed.
Councilman 3ohnson: But you can't have any closed cans of beer. You have to
open them at the gate.
Councilwoman Oimler: Yes. Thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. If no other discussions, can I have a motion?
City Council Meeting - October 22, lggO
Counciluoman Dimler moved, Councilman 3ohnson seconded to approve the City Code
Amendment amending Section 14-61 concerning the definition of maIt liquor as
presented with item (b) amended as
(b) Except malt beverages, no person shall consume or have in hls or her
possession while within any city park any bottle or receptacle which
contalns intoxicating 11quor whlch has been opened, or the seal broken, or
the contents of which have been partially removed.
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDER HODIFIED PLAN FOR TAX INCREHENT D)STRICT NO. 2-)-,
_HCGCYNN.
Todd Gerhardt: Thls lsa publlc hearlng.
Mayor Chmlel: Yes.
Todd Gerhardt: Included in your packet was a modlfied plan for tax increment
district No. 2. Included in that plan are the changes on page 6 and 7
highlighting the expenses. I've also lncluded in my report construction costs
and administrative expenses that w111 occur on this project. Planning
Commission at their October 17th meettng reviewed the proposed changes and found
them consistent with their overall development plans and comprehensive plan.
Just to remlnd the Clty Counc11, at our last meetlng of October 8th,
Councilwoman Oimler requested the deta£1ed outline of those costs and I've
lncluded those.
Mayor Chmtel: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone wishing to
address this at thls particular time?
Councilman 3ohnson moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to close the public
hearing. Al! voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Resolutioe ~90-139: Councilman 3ohnson moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to
adopt the Resolution modifying the Tax Increment Financing Plan for
Development District No. 2 and Tax Increment District No. 2-1. Al! voted in
favor and the motion carried unanimously.
PUBLIC H~AR~NG: pROPOSED VAC~T. ION OF A PORTION OF STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY OF FOREST
AVENUE AND ORIOLE LANE, APPLICANTS: .ZIEGLER. REED, SCHIFERL~ AND GOWEN.
Public Present:
Name Address
Gary and Jan Reed
Ben Gowen
Marcia & Bob Schiferli
Delores Zlegler
Sandy Lehmer
2461 West 64th Street
6440 Hazeltine
325 George Street, Excelsior
6441 Oriole Lane
6461 Oriole Lane
Paul Krauss: Mr. Mayor, very briefly we received the request from 5 property
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
owners to vacate portions of Oriole and Forest Avenue. The portion requested
for vacation is undeveloped and in staff's opinion is unneeded for any public
purpose. It doesn't contain any public utilities either. In response to their
vacation request we saw no reason not to support that and we are recommending
that the vacation be approved and processed accordingly.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Is there anyone wishing to address that?
Please come forward up to the microphone and please state your name and your
address please.
Bob Schiferli: ! am Bob Schlferli and my wtfe owns the property where most is
being vacated. A question I have in regards to a 20 foot easement. Can I show
you on this map?
Mayor Chmiel: Sure. Go ahead.
Bob Schiferli: Now the present blacktop road, the property line runs through
here. The present blacktop road stops right here. Now they stated in a letter
they want a 20 foot easement to the park right? Do they want it 20 feet down
the side of this road and in regards to the 20 foot easement here, does he want
half on each side of these two pieces of property or just on one side of the
property? Oo they plan to keep the road in up to this point and then get an
easement from here down? See we own this piece here and also this one. The
reason we're requesting it is so it can be sold as one piece of property. This
actually all the land down below here is such that it cannot be built on.
...and this would make a nice lot in that respect. That one piece and we
requested this, oh it's been about 5 years now and we'd like to get it done.
They haven't moved on it yet but we're sure appreciating moving on it.
! understand our taxes now, last year they were 13 70. This coming year they're
going up to 21 50. We have to get rid of it. Can you clarify, does the 20 foot
easement over here all the way down or does the road come to here and the
easement... I'd like to have that clarified.
Paul Krauss: I believe Todd Hoffman can respond.
Councilman Johnson: I don't think we're vacating the western portion. Just
from the park back.
Todd Hoffman: To address that question, yeah. This would be the portion which
is to be vacated. An easement to the park along your property and then the Lang
property is in the process of being acquired. You'll be contacted at a date in
the near future to do that. The easement which we'd like to be retained would
be along this portion to gain access to the east for these persons in this area
to access the park down along that trail system to get into the future Herman
Field Park area.
Bob Schtferli: I believe there ts proposed from this blacktop here and come
down here with the road... Is that what you're proposing your easement to come
down through here?
Todd Hoffman: No. This would be the access which will be developed.
Bob Schiferli: Then you're not vacating across our property at all?
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
Paul Krauss: No, we would be vacating ownership. We'd be retaining the right
to have an easement for a trail.
Todd Hoffman: A trail easement.
Paul Krauss: But it would show up as one tax parcel.
Bob Schiferli: Then why can't they bring their easement down through here into
the park then? The park runs from here to there. I'm not objecting to the way
they want to do it. I just want to get it clarified. Either you come down
through here or if you have to go that way, go this route. The road stops here.
Todd Hoffman: But then the development of the road, the gravel access road with
the parking lot will eventually happen. Then you want the easement here.
Bob Schiferli: Not all the way across here.
Todd Hoffman: Then this would be a trail easement for pedestrian access from
the east.
Councilman Johnson: Not cars.
Harcia Schiferli: Then it goes right through our property.
Bob Schiferli: You're going through our property. You're going through this
property too. That doesn't sound very logical to me. I want this clarified
when you plan to put that easement.
Councilman Johnson: Todd, do you have the drawings for the park and could
access come from the east just on this back corner or could we move that trail
access along the back lot lines versus going through the center of their lot?
Instead of putting it where the street's platted now, put it at the back lot
line and give them the vacation.
Todd Hoffman: Yeah, there's the possibility that a trail, internal trail could
be connected wlthln the park. It ls separated by a wetland area in here but
that certainly is a possibility.
Bob Schiferli: ...go through here rather than cut off two pieces of property. I
wouldn't want to buy a piece of property and have an easement going right
through the mlddle of lt. On the side ls flne. No difference. Same with hlm.
I'm sure they wouldn't want...
Councilman Johnson: Do we know what's the territory's like? Swamps or what?
Gary Warren: It gets pretty wet so.
Todd Hoffman: Again, that would just be a possibility. Without taking a look
at the overall park plan and again taking a look at changing the recommendation,
it would be premature at thls tlme.
Mayor Chmiel: Todd, what would happen if we vacated that end piece all the way
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
down? Got an easement through there. Vacated the other piece that goes over to
that trail or where the road would be with the easement extending down also to
20 feet. Wouldn't that work out? You understand what I'm saying?
Todd Hoffman: Along this side?
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Get a trail easement there. Vacate the other piece that
extends from there to there.
Todd Hoffman: Yeah.
Mayor Chmiel: And then get a 20 foot easement in that location where you show
it presently to enter into the park.
Gary Warren: Mr. Mayor I think the, I didn't mean to interrupt. The concept
plan for the parks there relate to this and I think they ought to be looked at
because I think the access for the land where the squiggle kind of goes off
meandering is a litt[e bit questionable as far as wetlands and such.
Councilwoman Dimler: The topography there?
Paul Krauss: If you'd like us to look into that, I'd recoimend that you
continue action on this and let us bring it back to you at an upcoming ieeting.
We'll have looked at that.
Todd Hoffman: That could be a possibility to make a compromise situation. If
this is not navagiable down here, to bring that easement along the bottom or the
southerly half.
Mayor Chmiel: Rather than cutting through the entirety of the property.
Gary Reed: My name is Gary Reed and I don't know when this all started but my
son now owns part of that property that's adjacent to that and ! don't think
he's been notified but.
Mayor Chmiel: Adjacent to?
Gary Reed: To that extension of Oriole Avenue.
Mayor Chmlel: Oh, okay.
Gary Reed: And also you said there were no utilities in there? There's
sanitary sewer and then storm sewer now right?
Gary Warren: On Oriole, yeah.
Gary Reed: Doesn't the sanitary sewer cut right through there? Or does it dead
end down there?
Gary Warren: It goes to the south.
Gary Reed: There's a manhold I know right down in that 20 foot Oriole and I
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
thought it uent uest from there.
Gary Warren: Right, it goes uest to a pump station. That uhole thing should be
revieued Mr. Mayor.
Gary Reed: Yeah, because that goes right through the middle of that property so
you can't build on that part.
Mayor Chmiel: 8god, thank you. Anyone else?
Ben Gouen: My name is Ben Gowen. I'm adjacent... I'm curious to know why
they've got an 8 foot easement on 64th after you abandoned 64th? You've got an
8 foot path. Why do you nou need a 20 foot path for the last 600 feet? 8 foot
is good enough. From here up to TH 41 is 8 foot nou as they abandon this
street. Why do you need 20 feet here? I should think 8 feet uould be adequate
if you have to have it at all. There's no people up in this side of town. All
the people that are going to use the park live over here in the Minneuashta
Heights, Lous and Manner. I don't think you have to consider this site at all
really.
Gary Warren: The path itself is 8 foot but it's within the City's existing
right-of-uay. The right-of-uay is uider than the 8 feet, The path itself is 8
feet uide.
Councilman 5ohnson: That's been partially vacated uhen Mr. Reed subdivided.
Mayor Chmiel: Alright, anyone else? Let's go the direction we had mentioned.
Councilwoman Dimler: I move we close the public hearing.
Councilman 3ohnson: Second. Or move to continue it?
Mayor Chmiel: I uould say we probably move to continue it.
Councilman 5ohnson: I'll withdraw my second then.
Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. Then you're not going to table this for tonight?
Move to continue. Alright.
Mayor Chmiel: No. Move for a continuance so we don't have to take any action
on it.
Councilwoman Dimler: Alright, move to continue the public hearing.
Councilman 3ohnson: Second.
Mayor Chmiel: And staff come back with those recommendations or suggestions and
take all these things into consideration.
Paul Krauss: I'll assume that it's going to be on the next meeting but ue'll
renotify.
Mayor Chmiel: Right. More than likely it will be on next Council agenda so
10
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
then once we check out the different things that we discussed, we'll have a
better ~dea. Then we'll see.
Ben Gowen: The people that are on the petition, 2 of the 5 didn't get notified.
[ don't know why they don't.
Mayor ChmieI: Do you know who those were?
8eh Gowen: Myself and the SchIferlI's.
Marcia Schiferli: No, we got one.
Ben Gowen: Oh you did? It wasn't on the agenda upstairs when I tried to find
out.
Marcia Schiferli: No, we got a letter.
Gary Reed: My son didn't either.
Gary Warren: Does it show as an ownership?
Gary Reed: Yeah. And also, you know the p[at...propos[ng along 64th Street...
Councilman Johnson: Right. This is an old street map. It shows 64th going up
to the highway. Yeah.
Don Ashworth: Mr. Reed? Your son's name ts?
Gary Reed: Gary also. Gary S. Reed. That's Excelsior mailing.
Mayor Chmiel: Very good. So we'll have it continued until the next Council
meeting.
Counciluoman Oimler moved, Councilman 3ohneon seconded to continue the public
hearing on the proposed vacation of a portion of street right-of-~ay of Forest
Avenue and Oriole Lane until the next City Counctl meeting. All voted in favor
and the motion carried.
PJ'S BAR AND REST~dJRANT LOCATED ZH SE~EN FORTY-ONE CROSSZN6 SHOPP/NG CENTER.
INT[RSECTZON OF TH 41 AND TH 7. JEFFREY ~RRTH[M:
A, CONDITIONAL USE PER~ZT REGUEST.
B. ON-S~L; ~NTOXICATING LIGUOR LICENSE REGUEST.
Public Present:
Name Address ,
Gary and Jan Reed
Ben Gowen
Marcia & Bob Schiferli
Delores Ziegler
Sandy Lehmer
2461 West &4th Street
6440 Hazeltine
325 George Street, Excelsior
6441 Oriole Lane
6461 Oriole Lane
11
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
Jeffrey Irrthum
Tim Whitten
3667 Falcon Way, Eagan
15352 Village Woods Drive, Eden Prairie
Paul Krauss: Mr. Mayor, the applicants are requesting approval of a conditional
use permit to locate a 5,800 square foot restaurant with approximately 192 seats
in the Seven Forty-One Shopping Center. The restaurant's being referred to as
Pi's. It's been, I believe you had a sample menu in the packet. It's been
described as sort of family oriented sports bar I guess type of concept. Hours
of operation are projected to be 11:00 a.m. to 12:30 p.m.. It's location in the
shopping center is the far eastern corner of the shopping closest to TH 41.
When the applicants first approached staff with this proposal we were somewhat
concerned with the long lengthy history of neighborhood interaction and project
development that occurred on this site. Since it occurred before my time with
the City, I attempted to others who were involved at the time and read the
Minutes as to what was committed to and basically what we have there is a
neighborhood retail center. There was nothing specific that we found as to
restaurants of this nature which is consistent with the neighborhood business
district designation. The only liquor licensing issue that have cropped up
before with the SuperAmerica station which was an off-sale permit. This of
course is an on-sale request. Moving on from there we realized that the
shopping center was designed for retail use. Restaurants with liquor licenses
generate significantly greater parking demand and we spent quite a lot of time
with the applicant working out parking issues. Along those lines and also to
satisfy our concerns with, or some of our concerns with placing them in this
shopping center. The original restaurant proposal envisioned a 50-50 split
between full dining tables and tables located in the bar area. Upon calling
other communities that had similar types of restaurants, we concluded that that
was unacceptable for two reasons. It didn't create the image that we thought
was consistent with an operation in this shopping center. We felt that a more
dining room approach was more appropriate...significant impact for parking.
Consequently the applicant who was attempting to work with us, did redesign the
restaurant so it had a 60-40 split. 60~ of the tables being full dining tables.
The parking plans have been resolved through the use of proof of parking concept
which we've used on several sites to date. As the Council's aware, in the past
I've said that parking analysis is somewhat more of an art than a science and
we're never quite perfectly sure how these things are going to function. We
believe that when the restaurant is up and running, assuming it's doing well and
the rest of the shopping center is full, that there's going to be, you know
parking will be tight. To meet ordinance requirements, the proof of parking
plan was developed such that if a parking problem does make itself apparent, we
can require that the parking lot be rebuilt basically. Reoriented to
accommodate sufficient numbers of cars. One of the things that the applicant is
giving up to make this proof of parking work is that there is an undeveloped
4,000 square foot retail building. Free standing retail building that will not
work if the proof of parking plan is in place. What we have told the applicant
is that right now we're assuming that that thing is out of the picture. However,
after the shopping center is completely leased and PJ's is operating, if they
wanted us to go back in and re-open the issue, we would through the use of some
consultant time paid for by the applicant reassess the parking and if there was
sufficient parking at that point, ue may consider the reinstatement or
recommending the reinstatement of that building. But for the time being, that
is not included in the proof of parking concept. One of the other issues we
dealt u£th with this project was compliance with previous conditions of
12
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
approval. As the Council is aware, staff has been attempting to work with the
original developer to gain satisfaction of conditions pertaining to landscap£ng.
There was a pFobZem with weed control. There's another problem with completion
of drainage improvements. There's been a lot of difficulty with the retention
pond located to the west of the shopping center. There was another Issue with
the inclusion of a street light at the entrance because there was a visibility
problem.
Mayor Chmiel: That's tn place now.
Paul Krauss: That's in place now, yes. We've been working with the applicants
to resolve a lot of these things and there's been something of a change In, I
don't know if It's change in ownership but a change [n the parties that we're
dealing with. We've met with them quite frequently of late. They have cut the
weeds. They are working with us to replace the dead plant material and complete
their landscaping plan. The PJ's restaurant, should it be approved, also
require Improved screening around the south side of the building which is now
very visible from Mr. Reed's lots or will be visible as those lots develop tn
the future. We'd like to offer them some more screening. A November 1Sth
deadline was establ[shed by staff tn working with the applicants to resolve
these issues. We do have a significant letter of credit outstanding and so we
do have the financial wherewithal to guarantee that these things are going to
occur. In addition the Planning Commission seeking to increase it's comfort
level in working with this situation put a condition of approval on such that if
the restaurant [s approved, it will not be given a certificate of occupancy
until all these matters are resolved. Since winter ts rapidly approach/rig, that
basically gives the developer a window of probably 2 to 4 weeks to jump through
to fix everything over there. Otherwise the restaurant won't be allowed to open
until next spring when these things can be done so they're really under the gun
tn that regard. We did ask the developer to hold a neighborhood meeting.
There's been a lot of neighborhood Interaction on this In the past. They did,
[n fact, we pulled them from one agenda from the Planning Commission because
they couldn't coordinate to hold their neighborhood meeting initially. They did
hold one prior to the Planning Comm[sston. We understand it was fairly sparsely
attended but there was some good dialogue. Planning Coma£ss£on acted on this
earlier tn the month and they did recommend it's approval adding that
condition [ spoke of earlier about the satisfaction of conditions prior to
certificate of occupancy. There were some Issues that cropped up though at the
Planning Commission public hearing. Some of them weren't necessarily
specif[cally related to the restaurant or even to the shopping center but issues
that are occurring in the area and they had to do with traff[c. One of the
concerns was the Oriole/Orchard [ntersect[on. It's a bad intersection now.
There's a concern that traffic seeking to turn on TH 7, from TH 7 Into the
shopping center may miss TH 41. Go past and turn Into Orchard and make, you
know go into the neighborhood. Of course there's no connection from that
neighborhood to the shopp[ng center so anybody that does that once won't do it
again but it is a bad intersection and we have a recommendation from the
Assistant City Engineer on some re-stgnage for that that will help alleviate
that problem. We also sought to Investigate the potent/al of posting a highway
sign on TH ? such that westbound traffio ts notified ahead of time that if they
wish to go onto the shopping center site, that they need to turn to TH 4I.
MnOot has told us that they are generally unreoe1>ttve to posting those green
signs on anything but a limited access free which TH 7 Is not. There is an
13
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
exception formula that they use where you basically have to prove to them that
this is a highly unusual situation. We're willing to make the attempt. I'm not
sure that we can do that. If we do that however, they charge us for the sign.
Now if you want us to pursue that, I would ask you to add a condition that the
developer or the applicants be liable for the cost of that sign should our
application be looked on favorably. But again, we are willing to look into
that. And with that, with the conditions recommended by the Planning
Commission, we are recommending that this application be approved. Mr. Mayor,
as you noted, there is a corresponding request for a liquor license that's being
acted on after this issue.
Hayor Chmiel: Thank you Paul. Is the applicant here? Is there anything you'd
like to say?
Tim Whitten: On which issue? On both?
Mayor Chmiel: On any of the things that Paul has just gone over.
Tim Whitten: My name is Tim Whitten. I'm with Heise, Ryan, McRae and we are
representing the landlords and also the Jeff Irrthum with PJ's. Jeff's
available to answer any questions as we go along. We did have the meetlng wlth
the neighbors and we discussed a few things and feel that we've come a long way.
We have changed the guards if you will with Roger Zahn who was runnlng the
project up until recently and I have now taken over Roger's responsibility and
have dealt wlth the Clty staff. Have met with the planners on slte in regards
to the landscaping. Talked to the engineers. We taIked to all the consuItant$
lnvolved wlth the project. Our schedule ls such that we plan on maklng all
these improvements by the 15th. We have everything in place as far as the road
construction. We're dealing wlth the engineers as far as the retention pond.
My understanding is that as of yesterday that the dead planting material has
been replaced. We're dealing wlth the landscape flrm to come up wlth a plan to
present to the City adding somewhere in the range of 8 to 12 more evergreens to
the slte to satisfy that concern. Our only, we agree wlth the staff. Have been
working with the staff on all the issues. The only question I have is the
request for the additional 9 parklng spaces that's listed on there. That was an
item, I believe that was put in place to satisfy the empIoyee parking for the
restaurant when in fact we did not have 14 spaces in the back of the bulldlng
itself. I think Paul can probably identify that. The 9 was to be placed in
that location. Can you show where the 14 parking spaces were previously?
Paul Krauss: Yeah. If I could expand on that7 When we originally were looking
at thls, there was a proposal to locate a daycare center in this shopping
center. The daycare center would have had a rear recreation area that would have
lntruded 1nrc this space requiring the elimination of 14 stalls. On a slte that
has tight parking anyway, you don't want to lose any of it to employees. You
want to make the employees park behlnd the building. We were concerned that
without these 14 stalls, that the g stalls on the proof of parking plan over
here should be installed. We've slnce been informed that the daycare center
will not be locating in the shopping center so we still have those 14 stalls and
we can eliminate that part of the condition dealing wlth those g stalls. It's
number 2(c).
14
City Council Meeting - October 22, [990
Tim Whitten: Otherwise we're in support of the report and would be happy to
answer any questions.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
Jeff Zrrthum: My name is Jeff Irrthum. I'm from Eagan, Minnesota. I'm the
proposed owner of PJ's restaurant. I guess I just wanted to touch on the fact
that there's been some, Paul mentioned that the 60-40 split in the dining/lounge
area. The reason we put the lounge area in was for the convenience of overall
of the people. Buring the lunch period when ue expect to the majority of our
business, we will be serving meals in that area. In that lounge area so I
guess, ! know there's been some fear of being like a bar or even like a sports
bar like a Champp's type situation. Even though obviously I would lo~e that to
happen, I don't believe my facility is nearly as big as theirs. Obviously
I know it's not as big as their's nor do I attempt or want to attempt to try and
achieve that type of a situation. I'm trying to be a dining establishment
serving alcohol as a compliment to the food. I just wanted to bring that up.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to address any of this?
If not, any discussion from Council?
Councilwoman Dimler: I do have a question of Mr. Irrthum. You know I read the
concept of your restaurant. I find it quite interesting the name PJ's and
I guess I was reading that It's a family restaurant but your waiters and
waitresses will be wearing pajamas.
Jeff Irrthum: I'm going to try to be a family restaurant. Yeah. Exactly. The
decor was going to be, I want it to be a very fun, l£ght atmosphere where
someone can come in with a famtly as well as an Individual or a date in a
variety of clothes. You don't have to feel like It's, we want ot make it as
upscale as possible without eliminating a family or vice versa so yeah, the
decor will be such that it will be a real light pastelly colors and yes, our
employees will be clad In men's pajamas as a uniform.
Councilwoman Oimler: Alright. Is there another PJ's in the Tw£n Cities?
Jeff Irrthum: No, there's not.
Councilwoman Dialer: Anywhere in the world?
Jeff Irrthum: No. I think I'm on the only one.
Councilman Johnson: If I could expand on that. What sport's played in Pi's?
Jeff Irrthum: The whole idea was to make it as fun and llght and casual as
possible and it's kind of a play on words actually.
Councilwoman Dimler: I agree we need a restaurant in town. I thought that was
quite interesting.
Mayor Chmtel: Okay. Any other discussions?
Councilman Johnson: When does our letter of credit expire?
15
City Council Meeting - October 22, 19gO
Gary Warren: December 31st.
Councilman Johnson: What does it take to extend that if things aren't done by
November 15th?
Gary Warren: We either request it and they comply or we go and we draw.
Councilman Johnson: Okay. On the signage. How many staff hours do ue think it
would take to convince the DOT that we're special? We know we are am~ who pays
for those staff hours?
Gary Warren: We talked to Joel Katz from the Department of Transportation as
Charles referenced in his staff report and to be frank, we think it would take
quite an extreme situation beyond what this is to really allow or to have MnDot
buy into it. I guess I question personally whether is it really going to be
that much of a problem, I can see a few people may be initially making a wrong
turn but we really haven't had any complaints that I know of of people making
the wrong turns trying to get into SuperAmerica for example or any of that type
of problem. So I think MnDot may be indirectly saying the same thing that they
really wonder if it really warrants a sign with all the sign clutter that we
have going around.
Councilman Johnson: I'm not sure how effective the sign's going to be anyway.
Everybody's looking the other way for the place anyway because they're trying to
find it. What I'm getting at is, all the work we've done with MnBot, this
sounds like one of those lost causes that we're out, what did it do to the
windmills? Well anyway, he's taking our lances and attacking the windmills here
and I don't want to spend any city money trying to do this.
Councilwoman Dimler: I agree.
Mayor Chmiel: Maybe we can have a couple members of Council. We are very
inexpensive.
Councilman Johnson: I feel like we've tilted windmills anyway.
Gary Warren: The one who isn't here tonight would be happy to do this.
Councilman Johnson: That's right. We'll nominate Tom to do the work. And have
Bill come back from New York,
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, is there any other discussion?
Councilwoman Oimler: I guess on the parking I had one question too. I know
that's precious but we are including the proper number of handicap spaces aren't
we?
Paul Krauss: Yes ma'am. That's a building code requirement.
Councilwoman Oimler: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: And as I noted here, that there has been discussions taking place
with neighbors even though it was sparse. It appears as though there weren't
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
any that are really objecting to what's being proposed. There was also one
other location on s~te that I talked to one of the residents there, that needs
some cleaning up and I can specifically get that location and Z'd like to see
that taken care of. I guess I'd just like to get, give me a clarification of a
standard restaurant. What does that really mean?
paul Krauss: We asked the City Attorney that very question.
Roger Knutson: and I have a definition. Restaurant standard. It means an
estabslihment's princIpie business is the sale of food and/or beverages to
customers in a ready to consume state and it's principle method of operation
includes one or both of the following, and i'll summarize this. Sitting at a
table or cafeteria style. Page 1151 of your City Code. That's a standard
restaurant.
Mayor Chmlel: Yes, I read it. Thank you. Okay. Any other discussions?
Councilman 3ohnson: Gary Reed has something to say.
Gary Reed: My name is Gary Reed. I just wanted to reiterate that they
shouldn't get an occupancy perm£t and I know that's part of th£s whole package,
until West &4th Street is completely done and the people are satisfied back
there. I guess that last statement needs to be looked at. You know that we are
satisfied when they do complete the work. That it's not just a glazed over job.
That south facing bank that faces our property...weeds because they did put some
seed down but there was no topsoil on there. It was just sour dirt that they
bilged out of the draining pond. It was black but that's about it and so
nothing grew on it and it's going to be a problem in the future if they don't
treat it properly or landscape Lt smooth enough to be mowed. It's ~lng to be
tough to deal with. We just don't want to sit and look at a lot of weeds every
summer growing up on that bank and in the pond too. A ground cover would
probably be acceptable as something that you wouldn't have to mow if it was
something we could, you know just some foliage.
Mayor Chmiel: Zf you have problems with weeds, we do have a weed inspector.
I'm the one you call.
Gary Reed: So anyway, I just would like to reiterate that the pond be taken
care of. The street be completed. The catch basins be put in and that's kLnd
of a big order by November 15th I think. Thank you.
Mayor ChmIel: Gary, can you just touch on that? What modifications have to be
done with &4th Street?
Gary Warren: 64th Street basically has to be completed to transition into the
existing pavement section. We have a retaining or guardrail that has to be
installed where the pond is very close to the road right on the bend and then
that pond area on that site needs to be re-established. Those are the thLngs
that we were provided a letter on from HRMA stating that they were getting bids
on It and that's what I presume they mentioned earlier here that they're ready
to proceed rapidly with. Bituminous plants close typically at Thanksgiving so
that work really needs to move along. Concerning vegetation and vegetative
cover, we have in the past, when we have dormant seeding and other things where
17
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
you don't know until the springtime if it's going to germinate, we have retained
some security to verify that so it may be appropriate in this case to retain a
certain amount of letter of credit after the planting through the wintertime
here to be assured of germination and proper vegetative restoration.
Mayor Chmiel: Any other discussions? If not, can I have a motion on the
conditional use?
Councilwoman Dimler: Let's see how we want to state it.
Mayor Chmiel: It's located on page 14.
Councilman Johnson: 2(c)'s gone.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. 2(c)'s eliminated. Is that right Paul?
Paul Krauss: Yes sir.
Mayor Chmiel: Now what happens, let me ask a question. What happens if they
get something back in there, then what happens with those 9 stalls that are no
longer golng to go in?
Paul Kraus$: Anything that they would do that would alter the parking situation
would throw the whole parking situation up for review so we'd have to take it on
a case by case basis.
Councilwoman Oimler: Okay. Then I move approval of Conditional Use Permit
~90-4 for PJ's Restaurant with conditions 1, 2 minus (¢), 3 and 4.
Councilman Johnson: Second.
Hayor Chmiel: And what about going to drop that as far as the sign cost
developer? If we were to pursue lt.
Gary Warren: £xcuse me?
Councilwoman Oimler: That's not part of this.
Hayor Chmiel: On the sign? We're not going to have that in there then?
Paul Krauss: If you want to pursue the HnOot sign, there should probably be a
condition added that the applicant will be responsible for charges associated
wlth the slgn.
Gary Warren: Hy recommendation would be that I don't think that's it's... I
think it'd be a waste of effort and time.
Hayor Chmiel: Okay. I'll go along with that.
Councilwoman Otmler moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to approve Conditional
Use Permit 4190-4 for PJ's Restaurant with the following conditions:
18
City Council Meeting - October 22, 1990
1. A revised landscaping plan shall be submitted providing additional
coniferous trees and other vegetation south of the shopping center and a
letter of credit covering the cost and installation of the trees will be
required and held for one year after planting, it is understood that the
object here is to provide a visual buffer to the south.
2. The proof of parking plan is accepted with the following conditions:
a. Calculations shall be provided verifying internal parking lot
landscaping meets the parking ordinance requirements.
b. a revised landscaping plan shall be submitted providing description of
internal parking lot landscaping.
c. Deleted.
d. No additional restaurants will be permitted in the Seven Forty-One
Crossing Shopping Center.
e. The additional parking shown on the pr~f of parking plan will be
constructed within & months of being required by Planning staff.
3. all trash shall be stored internally.
4. Prior to the issuance of a Certificate of Occupancy, there shall be
compliance with all conditions previously attached to other approvals on
this site.
all voted in favor and the motion carried.
Mayor Chmiel: Second item on the agenda Is item 5(b) which is the on-sale
intoxicating liquor license request.
Don ashworth: again, this is the application for the same restaurant facility.
We did have the City attorney review the financial statements of the applicant.
We also had the Public Safety Department review the history of the applicant to
determine if there were any liquor violations in the past or any other type of
problems that should be noted. We did not find any and accordingly, we're
recommending approval.
Mayor Chmiel: The only thing ! see here Jeff, is maybe you'd like to move from
Eagan to Chanhassen.
Jeff Irrthum: Gary already brought that up. as another neighbor did. He
offered his property for sale so I don't think that's a problem. No, we have
considered that once we get under construction and get the restaurant up and
moving. Of moving Into this area because obviously It's quite a distance to
travel and since I will be running the restaurant and spending a maJorlty of my
ttme there, it would be very much a good idea to move Into the area so that will
be taken seriously.
Mayor Chmiel: Good.
19
City Council Meeting - October 22, ~990
Councilman Johnson: About 6 months of doing that drive, you'll be real serious.
Mayor Chmlel: Any other discussion?
Councilwoman Dlmler: Seelng that he meets all the criteria, Z move approval of
item $(b).
Mayor Chmiel: As recommended ulth 1rems i and 2?
Councilwoman O£mler: Right.
Councilman Johnson: Second.
Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to approve the on-sale
intoxicating liquor license and Sunday sales request for P.J.'s Restaurant
contingent upon the following:
1. Receipt of the pro-rated liquor license fee, a $5,000.00 surety bond and
the liquor liability insurance certificate.
2. That the City Council waive the requirement that the manager of the
restaurant 1lye in Chanhassen.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
PRELIHINARY PLAT REVIEW TO 5UB~IVI§E 78.37 ACRES INTO 76 SINGLE FAH[LYLOTS
LOCATED JUST SOUTH OF TIGUR LANE, LAKE RILEY HILLS, 30HN KLINGELHUTZ.
Mayor Chmiel: Item 6, Preliminary Plat revlew to subdivide 78 acres has been
withdrawn. There are no Council Presentations. Any Adminstrattve
Presentations?
Councilman Johnson: Can we add something? Thls ls ridiculous. I mean lt's
only 8:30.
Mayor Chmiel: We are ready for an adjounment.
Councilwoman 01mler moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to adjourn the meeting.
All voted tn favor and the motion carried. The meeting Nas adjourned at 8:30
Submitted by Don Ashuorth
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Ophelm
2O