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1990 07 09CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR HEETING 3ULY 9, 1990 Hayor Chmiei caJ. ied the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Fiag. COUNCILHEHBERS PRESENT: Hayor Chmiel, Councilman Workman, Counciiwoman Dimier and Counciiman Johnson COUNCILHEHBERS ABSENT: Councilman Boyt STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knutson, Gary Warren, Todd Gerhardt and Jo Ann Olsen APPROYAL OF AGENDA: Counciiman Johnson moved, Councilwoman Dimier seconded to approve the agenda amended to incIude the foIiowing under CounciI Presentations: Hayor Chmiei wanted to discuss 78th Street and Councilman Workman wanted to discuss a water probiem on Cheyenne. Ali voted in favor and the motion carried. CONSENT AGENDA: Counciiman Johnson moved, CounciIwoman Dimier ~econded to approve the following con~ent agenda items pursuant to the City Hanager's ~ecommendations: a. Zoning Ordinance Amendment to Amend Articie II, Sections 20-56 through 20-70 Pertaining lo Procedures for the Issuance of Uariances, Finai Reading. d. Resoiution ~90-72: Accept Utility Improvements in Country Oaks, Project No. 89-1. e. Resolution ~0-?~: Accept Street Improvement~ in Deerbrook, Project 88-7. f. Resolution ~0-74: Accept Utlllty Improvements in Vlneland Forest, Project 89--27. h. Resolution ~0-75: Building Inspection Vehicle, Award of Bid. i. Approv~l of Bills. Clty Counc11Mlnutes dated June 25, 1990 as amended by Councilman Workman correcting the motion on page 13 to read the second by Councilman 3ohnson not Councilman Workman. Planning Commission Minutes dated June 20, 1990. k. Authorization to Send Letter to Lake Mlnnetonka Conservation Oistrlct Regarding Proposed Taxing Authority. 1. Resolution ~90-?~: Approve Resolution for Recertlflcatlon of Jolnt Cooperation Agreement with Hennepin County. m. Approval of PMT Development Contract/Grading Permit. All voted in favor and the motion carrled unanimously. ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO AMENO SECTION 20-92 REGARDING CERTIFICATES OF OCCUPANCY BY ADDING PROUISION$ FOR LANDSCAPING REQUIREHENTS, FINAL REAOIN6. Counci]maf~ [4orl~i,L~n: Thru is regardil'~g thc '.Zoning Ordinance 4mendment regarding Ce~'tiFLcales of Occupa~cy by a~ldin9 provicio~,~ for landscape requirements. ~o~tld be the ,-asponslbilily of home builders to install a t.r~e and seed or sod p~'.;.o~ to the lssuar~cc of a certificate of occ~pal~cy a.d I g~es~ I Wallt to leave on~ idea in youF mirid~.; and tn...l~ ~,a>'be we ca~ dxscusm it ar, d ~e can get to what T',~ maybe, get~j.~g at.. When I moved to the co~lU1~.t~ty and I ~as looking ~t homes a,~d nc~,~ t~omes or rather ~nbu.ilt homes, ~hich I think thi~ is going to~ this is ~l~al this is directed at. 0~ ~ay' to move in and save a buck and to do, I don'l know i'[ ther~'~ ,.~ growing trend but an a~ful lot of people like lo do a lot of the little small thing~ in their home to save a buck~ Try lo get into maybe a bigger ho~se than they can handle but i'f lhey 'take care of it themselves, they can save money rather ~han have the build~-~r do J.t. the siding, trim, all of things. ~nd I know 'that one of the big thing~ was the landscaping. To leave the la~,dscapi~g s~ tl~at a person co~].d save quite a bit of money if they planted their o~n tr~es, bought their o~n sod and I guess just kind of an .i~il. ial s~eat equity tl~ing that peop].e kind of usc to save a little bit of money rag. her than movJ.~g ir:to a home that's all complete. Yard done and everything ~r~d ~c~ i:h~.;~ o~"dina~ce l<~nd of co~cerns me in that regard in that a pe,~on car, maybe (~ave, I do~'L know, up i.o $1,000.00 bucks or something by ~aiting or cloj_r~g J.t the~se]ve~., find so a~; Say ~sl~akes I'~s he~d, I'd like to hava some input onto ~.Jhelhe~' or not ~e'i'e taking thai. one thing a~)ay from people. Councilman 3ohl~son: fill. we'r.'-; requiring is two tl'ees J., the front boulevard and tl',e. C.tLy o~ned ~i-ea fi'om the s[;'set to the person's property. Councilman Workmate; Ti:at's al! ~e're askinw? Nothi~g olse? Councilman Johnson: i believe that's all.. Unless ~e add additional thing~ as [~,'~'~, O[ L~ ~UO SUch a~ Lake Susan Hills Wes~ ha~ addit.i, ona]. landscaping requirements i]', their PUg because they got the smaller lots so ~e required the (I;~v~:..]oper lo put i, the trees, l'hi~.: isn't the builder pLtt,~ing in the trees. IL",~; the developer, Councilman Work,~,an: Then lhis is unclear becanse this isn't saying anything about just ~l',t~ bouleva~'d or property on an easement of the other olde of the :3ide~alk. This J.:; saying a Certificale of Occupar, cy shall not be issued unless ].and:~c~ping has bee~ completed or unles~ *" ,.F¢O.O0 or ~¢uci~ other amount as shall be det~rmined by I:l,a 6i[y's Planning Birecto'r_ Ct'edJ.[ ~s furnished the Ci[y 9u,~rar, t,~ein9 co,,plstion ~ithin 60 days. 14ayor C. hmiel~ Tom, I guess I have one thing to add lo that Tom. What happens :if riley have that i,ouse built. They're 'ready to move i~ in February. There's no way f. hey could possibly put sod o'r pul trees in basically so that migh[ be a hat, 9 uF, and I don't kl]ow what we have to really cover that and Z didn't see that in h,~r~. Roger'? Roger Knu[sor~: Fi~'st, t~hat this does is it says, i'[ yoLt have a development contract, yo~ I~ave to haYe that $750.00 posted to gua¥'anl, ee completion of what's r'e. qui'~'ed in the developl, ent oo',,'tret~t. The developm~:nt contract, the general conditions ~hicl, you have approved spell oul what has to be done. The 2 trees and tl~¢. sodd.l~. Second, this does not p~-ohibit ~ i~omeo~l~er, the home buyer. City Council Meetin9 - Jul>' 9, 1990 himself or herself from doing the work. All this says is before the Certificate of Occupancy is issued, that $750.00 has got to be put up to make sure the work gets done. It doesn't specify who has to do it. Third, it says you have to do it within 60 days weather permitting. So in February I would suggest you probably couldn't get it done. Unless it was a really great February. Councilman Workman: Well, I don't know. Bo people get it done, and maybe this is why we're drumming up this ordinance but a lot of people don't get to it for a year. I mean they've strapped themselves pretty tight and I know that we have. some neighborhoods around here and they just don't get to it. They want to get some shades on the windows and they want eat and they want to do some other basic necessities and then maybe wait a season before they come back around and try to get that done. Councilman Johnson: It's the developer's responsibility, not the homeowner's to do this. We have a contract with the developer. Not the homeowner. We're 9oin9 after the guy that's making the bucks. Not the guy spending the bucks. Councilman Workman: But where's this going to get turned around to Jay? Isn't a developer going to pass that on to the home buyer? Oon Ashworth: That's what we're finding. Mayor Chmiel: Sure it does. Councilman Workman: Well of course and so now what we're effectively doing is saying to tho developer have the lawn, have a tree and have it all said and ready to go. And I'm saying, that a new home buyer's comlng in and would 11ke that as one nlOre option to do himself. Save some money when he can reasonably get to it. If you hire a sod company to come out and do it, I think you'd rather say to your neighbors or your relatives and your counsins, come on down I'm having a sod party or whatever and help me get this done. Councilmon Johnson: This doesn't have to be the whole yard doesn't have to be sod. Just the city owned portion of your yard. From the boulevard sectlon. That's what's within the development contract. Councilman Workman: Okay, well that's unclear to me. Councilman Johnson: It's stated, set forth in the development contract. Councilman Workman: You're saying that that little strip of boulevard on these little lots need $750.00 escrow? Mayor Chmiel: And the two trees. Councilman Workman: Geez, you can get a couple of trees for a lot less. Councilman Johnson: That's why the developer would rather put it in than pay the $750.00 i;~to the escrow. Roger Knutson: The trees are specified they have to be 2 inch caliper. You can't 9o and get those 100 for a buck from the DNR. Cit,v C(,unc:L]. Mc.;~:~til~,j Ju~!? 9, 1.o90 Mayor C[~m]e.l.: .S:~edlingt;. Col..m.n(;Lllnan b!orkmal~' .T. ~lon't see wl~;re it ua?::; 2 inclle:~ eitller. Roger l<t~LsOl'.,: That's it: ~.lle development cont~'ac~.. This dovetails with tho d,:;ve/opmor~ COl'~%~c.t i,~ov]oions.. Z c~r, ex~lain th~A ge;~Zs of thi~. It's com,plaini.~.,.. Sonmeon~.~ come::_; in. 8ui].d~: a i~ouse and you'fo right. They'~'e of mane>, a~d they c~n't c~r, pl~,~'e the t~-ees. They can't complete the sodding ~nd not 60 clays 9o by but perhaps ~ year. Perhaps 2. Perhaps 3 years go by and I'mn rm~ext deal' and ]"vt, done by ~ork and Zt's a mess up in you~' ~ar'd and you know what ha:,pens t~men. You call City Hall, You call Paul. You call Jo Anrm. Or c:on,~of'mo and the~' ::~ay we ~,eed a h,~rmd]e on solving this pt'oblenm. c. cu'¢~c.;.1,,,~ 3o','~nson: This docsn"t ha~,e a~ly affect on ~hat tllough. This is only the bou.l_avard. What's in tl~e deve].opmer~t contract. I did my entire y~t'~'d, it took me 3 yeat-~..: befo'~-~.: my entl~'e yard. T had o~e .s. lde ya~'d because Z was p].antirlg ~nd then 'r-eplant~n~ evei'~'tilne it got washe~ out. Mayor Chmie].: Yeah. Z Lhink r'eally the soddirl9 withln boulevard section is ~.h,!.'.i':;-..~o tl~.'-;ro::: ~,o o~'osion goil~9 orr sLroet and c~using soma problems. Cloggil~g i.il:' Se~eT'S. -~hateve]'. Coummcil,i, an John:-~Ofl: But tl~ere's SOl,~place ~her.'..,. tl~¢¢y po'.,; in 'lwees the year ~fLer.~' 'v~i'>'body':~. plan,t:~d and the'n ,~11 of n sudden ~mere comes: the developer Cou ,';c: il ,,a l: Moi-k,,an: It's 3mist another one of Lbose tl]irlg.s, if you're building il, a devulopmelll. :~l'~er~) you're caFvin9 it into a wooded at'e4~, you don't have this pi'oblem potential but when you're building on a corn'[leld, you have this problem and ~hen ~ come ii,to (hat home, I'd just ~¢~ soon h:ve the decision to say where I want Lhat tree ra'bhe~' Lharm a developer telllng me ~here I want ~:hat ~.ree. But .~.t :3 ~ttsl. Oll:S IlmOt'e Littl(~ thii,9. I dol'm'[ &;er: f.l~is aoulevar'd thing that you re mentiol~¢ng. 1t*:s in tl~e dev~lopaen'~ col~tt'acL.. Z don't kl~o~, 1t ~ust f'ub me Der, A..;hwortl~: I'd also like 'Lo bring out that I think it was this past fall. The foquiremor~t'.'.~ b:-;e;~ in the development contf'~ct For' several yea~s. You'f'e t'lgl,t. ~d~ hnv~,~ let the dev~lopei" pass it to the builder and tho builder' pass it back to l.h::, hom¢:~owl'~' ar, d we're find:Lng that so~mo of tim~s~ al'e sl.i. pf~il~9 tl]r-ough :';o we adv.L~.:od i. he CourlcJ. 1 Ll',i~: parsL Fall admins(r'~ti~e pollc>' to insuf-¢¢ that the development cont~-~ct language So tho $Z50.00 f'equlremer~t, the ~uo t-r'ee,s and the landscape, tl~e sod in the f~-on~, ~r~ ~omei:hin9 that i~ hal. new.. We've been doling that fo~- this past yeaw. We t~ave 'rece.i~.,ed some c~mpla.i, nts in terms~ of 11ke the 60 days and Z would say [l',,tt Z'v~ i'e,:~ived mn~yl)e 5 [o 10 phom~o c~l].s in th.ts 8rea. [n each one of those .;.,~:.:%¢t]~L:~3, we wei-e ;;t:,le to g~]e the ir, dlvidual an additional 30 or 60 days. t,ll'~t Z sl.,~ted [o each one, we't'~-: not t-o811y Lnteres[ed yot~'F $750.00. Z mean i.r it's too hot to (eke and put dot~n your sod, ~e wlll give you unl. i! i.i~e '[~.;11 to do it. Zf you'f'e tl-yir~g ~o get tt'ees in ~l~d you have~'t been ~b].o to fJ.~d 'the specLes you want or ~h~tever, yowl-seLF arm,:] j;~:sL h¢~vem~'t I~d time to do i~., we'll bc ].el~ient wltl~ you. We ~ust ~,¢,~n't. sar, me mechanJ.::.;n'~ in pl:ce to lnsuf'e that it does get completed. So [ mean ths of'din,'tnc¢} ~:, :;¢olel. y b¢~in9 pu% ~n i)loce to cover aim adminsi:t'~tive policy (l~,:t'~ kLnd or b~en L'n place for ~ >'~;'~r'.. City Council Meeting - July 9, 1990 Councilman Workman: So the developer will put this $750.00 up and so then he will be sodding the front boulevard and putting in 1 tree and then he will have this $750.00 released? Don Ashworth: In some instances it uorks that way but in more instances than not, Tom Klingelhutz may sell 4 or 5 lots to another builder. Okay, Tom was the original developer of Pheasant Hills but he's passing on the responsibility to that next builder to put those trees out in the front. The builder builds a house for you. Now in that process you want to close on it and he's saying well part of my contract with you requires you to pay all costs associated with the permits and other types of activity. We're finding that each one has it pushed down to the next lower level which ends up as the property owner himself and at that point in time that's where they come back in and say, we would like additional time. We will plant the trees or we can find them at K-Hart or whatever else and still get a 2 inch caliper tree and be far less than $750.00. We say fine. Go ahead and do it. They plant the trees. The money is released. Councilman Workman: To who? Don Ashworth: Back to that owner. The person who actually came up with the dollars. Councilman Johnson: See now that doesn't settle with me real well. That the homeowner ends up putting up the $750.00 because ue've got a development contract with the developer that he puts up that money. Gary Warren: It's something that's negotiated between the buyers and the sellers as it's carried through the conditions because the CO won't be issued until such time as we've got obviously this taken care of so the development contract, this condition is something that was mentioned, I think in the staff report. The condition is made aware to any of the people as far as the transfer of the property is concerned. So they may choose to pass that on to subsequent people and take $750.00 off the cost of the lot when they sell it oF work that out between themselves. We don't care how they do it but the condition starts from the beginning and gets carried on. It's really, as Roger said too, with the demands that ue've had to release lots, the CO's and such during the uinter conditions, it's really been something that we've been asked to try to address so that we don't hold up the CO until we can plant some sod or plant in the late fall when the conditions aren't right or any of these kinds of things so. Mayor Chmiel: Any other discussion? Councilman Workman: So it really strictly means the boulevard. Gary Warren: Boulevard. We also on a specific lot basis if there's a drainage suale that has required through the site plan to be sodded. Some of those specific things would also be covered by that but on the average lot, it's the boulev~Lrd area and you're two trees. The two trees could run you $400.00 the way that we get them. Councilman Workman: I guess I'm not sure. I think Bill brought this up initiall)' but I guess I'm unaware of an area or a lot that's been left open for Ci,ty Cow,mt:ii i'i~cLi~w - July 9, 1990 too long and whet8 i[;u been a serious problem to put this bu,'den on everybody Councilman 5oh~son' Well the burden's there. Ail ge're doing is making the 'f'ttlS:; catch u~, to wh~'.t t,¢e't,~: b.';er, signing contracts ~ith. It 9ives us more, little more ~:nfo'rceability of tl~e contracts that we have with our developers. Cour,¢:iJ,l, an Workman' It jus:[ appear.s that tile new homeowners, I firmly believe tha'?, developer's: pa>, nothing. I mean they are merely a conduit for ~hatever OOBes dou~ ~.Fm(~ yoL~ and I aR~(I everybody else in the room is the one that's going to pay For ;.t ;~nd it's going to modify and change the way they get into a house or oLhe~', and so we can talk about the hi9 bad developers but the big bad de~,oloper's not goirm9 Lo ~o¢'ry [oo much about it I don't think. And it could impact the btzyer' of tl'~ lot and ti'me property and .ft's one mof'e ~hing. I don't k~ot,¢. I guess not everybody's 11ko us in that t kmey want thelr yard to look real nioc as soon ,~s I>ossible. There are some customers out there, we need to cover that by doing this, I guess we do. 6aly ~i;'~-,'.'n: I ii,ink that it's conr¢istent with other conditions in the deve].Opnlr:nt contract. We see all the time where they"re asking for lot i-eleases from [h~-~ developei's ~o thaL they c~n close on ~ lot so typically their attorneys gill sci ut i~ize a development contr'ac( and ~ny other obligations that they can identify so that they can m4.tkc the perspective buyera a~¢af'e of what the commitments ar~ af~d [('s at that point J.n 'time, ~ust like pull,no and pay2ng for tr~nk cha~'o_. =~.¢ .... roi' connoctJ, or~s and tl~e sewer' ~.tnd water and these other things, that tl~e buyer gould be negotiating with (he builder or the developer, ~h&chever phase he is in the proc~:s to 8,Sy I~ey. Z rloklce here that there's a $750.00 3sc:You [~lat l'la~S: ~:0 be posted if ue ~ant ~o close on th&s lot. That's the fesponsJb~lZty of the devaloprei' and from that poilu( on it's negoti~zted on who's $750,00 it is. ~$ yot~ say, a].l 'the costs are typically handed down to the ultimate buyer's cost anyway because d¢;velopors aren't absorbing it so it s just a matter of 'Li'acki~mg as to say. did the developer post the $750.00 on his own and therefore m~ybe the cosL of the lot is $750.00 more. Just I~ou they track it, ~hat's another' adminstrative obligation of the individual buyer and the doue]opei' ,z~d builders as they go through their transactions. We certainly are ma~zng it public knowledge and on record with development contracts and with the s,~par,ste notice,s on the buildil~g permits lhat th~re is this obligation so that hopeFt.tlly they don't miss it and (hen .... Council,,~n Workmal:: So a buyer' would know th~L if he wasn't real, he would know Lhat if he waSll'[ looklng ~eal c4trefully, that if I~e went ahead and put all thls i'i-~ ~rlyw¢.'.y and ua~ probably charged by tl~e developer and the builder $750.00 in the cost of the lot ,.~nd i~e ended up putting it in anyway thinklng that was what his responsibility was, th~_~t he would get the mono;: back o~' tile developer wou'ld get the money l;~ck? 6a;'y Warren: If ii'lo de,,elope'r, lo["3 say that the buyer didn't realize that it was a developer' obligation &nd th~;y w&nted to pull a CO ~nd we had issued the CO because the develope'r h&d posted ¢.750.00, and then the 'resident still, presuming he ~loesn't know .ali. this, 9oes in ill the sprJ. llg and plal'lt:s the trees and the sod ~nd we rel. oa:=.:c the :~.750.00 to the rick, eloper ~nd he doesn't reimburse the prop¢:f'ty ot~ner for the work th,~t I~e did to meet tho condLtiol~, Z guess thst's i.,i-obabJy (l'~.r: dour, sJd,} of 'Lh~ 3.(tLtg4tJ. on but that would take Z thlnk qulte .'.~ lot o~. you know there's enougll :~l:eps ill the pl'ocess where we're doing what we call City Council Hee%ing - July 9, 1990 to make [he public aware that that condition is on there and I think... Councilman Workman' Well I would say that the developer would win in that situation all the way around. Mayor Chmiel: Oh sure, he would. There's no question. Gary Warren: The developers are trying to get out of it though as soon as possible. The developer's interest is to get the CO and move onto the next lot. And to do that, I think hls interest ls to extract his money, anythlng that's being held in escrow and actually leave that obligation wlth the homeowner. The homeowner's the person who's usually beating on our door to close because he wants to move in so he's a very willing participant and say yeah, okay. If we've got to glve $750.00 so I can meet this condition for now to close, it's not that, it's worth something to him. Don Ashworth: I think there's an equity position here as well in that you look at Western Hills area. Tom Klingelhutz. As a part of every lot in that area, planted boulevard trees and the effects of that plantlng today can very easlly be seen. That area has mature boulevard trees throughout the Western Hllls area. Turn around and look at some of the more recent subdivisions, even in the Chan Vist~ area, and you'll find a very spotting number of trees in that area and I think that future generstlons are going to be the poorer for that. Councilman Johnson: I know over on Kurver's Point, whatever it is there, a friend of mine 1lyes over there. I worked wlth him on soccer. One of our coaches and he's got no boulevard sod. No trees in hls front yard as of the last tlme I was there and wherl it rains, hls front yard goes in the street. Councilman Workman: I didn't mean to drag this on all night but I just wanted to false those polnts and I guess I'd move approval. Councilman Johnson: Second. Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to approve the final reading of Zoning Ordinance Amendment to Amend Section 20-g2 regarding Certificate of Occupancy by adding provisions for landscaping requirements. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. G. APPROVE COOPERATIVE AGREEMENT WITH MNDOT AND EDEN PRAIRIE FOR SIGNALIZATION OF TRUNK HIGHWAY 5 AT DELL ROAD. Councilwoman 9imler: When I was reading through this, it has to do with the cooperative agreement with MnDot and Eden Prairie for a signal on TH 5 at Dell Road. I wanted to know the hlstory of thls slnce I haven't heard about thls. Who determined that there should be a light there or who wants it there? Gary, do you know? Gary Warren: The MnDot plan and the Environmental Impact work, actually some of it with the TH 212 work, we've looked at the interchanges and the intersections and the a)'terial connections with Dell Road through Eden Pralrle and traffic studies were done by MnOot to arrive at the signalization. City Council i'leeLil~g -- July 9, 1990 Cottnc:iluomar~ n.i,,ler' The~',~"s ~t ~'~,'.~.cassity fei" it there? 6at'y Wa;-'rer~: It's ,'in if, poFI. al~i. one L¢~ Cl~anhusscn as well because of thc connt~c'L~on ~o TII ;:'~.2 on (he e.~;~. ~;&de and the co~nec~$c~ Ln(o our business park:; kl~er'r~. T ,thi~,k (he plan frorn Edr.:n Pr';~if'i.t"r; pc~'spectiv,:' ir~ i.u pusl, Da!l Ro,~d do~,¢,': to 'tH ~z2 on '~.~..,3 couLh .~;nd to get [t over 'the tracks to connect ~ith their i'oad t:o th,~ ~o,"1. Coui~cJ'..'.uoman DJ,,]cf': .T.. guess I won't ar~jue with that but I just, I guess the point is thzt a .tot of people C,f'8 Say'.ilO yOU kno~, they':','-; exp~ndin9 TH 5 so ~e ~.'.~-;:'~ ,,ow,'; 'f.i~c LFaf'[ic ~aste'r then ~e put ~lp ,'~].1 these lights. Mayor Ch,,]el: YoL( know, believe this or not, since just the finishing of Eden - · r ....... [~ o ~'.:,~rza~ I ,].~d t l~e of t,- good : ~,a~ .. ~ affic right r,o~ is Councilwoman Oi,,.1. o'F: It i:-'. b¢'tte. F. Hayer C'.q,~ie].: It'c ra~Lastic _,.'.n comparison to Wllat it wac. even ,~hen they W(~.i',.QII'~. l~i'.q:pdf'[ng or' ,putting some Counci].womar~ Olmler: But MOLl call get too many lights. H~7o¢'. r:l~,~.'.:el'. AII.~ .. ~ ~,,.~ .... ..'~, but t h.'_'.7 ~yncl~f oniz.,.¢' those lig~t:~' · ;:cco'r dingly so if Felt keep a '..;~.'..'.ci'?ic :.F, ee.d >'wu car, i, ake each one o'[ those. Unless you go on the Audul.~or,. Cour, ci.l.~om~,n DiF,,1. e,"- And ' ¢ '" -'-, FOg .'-lOB' make one, yOU don't make any of them. Th,il. ':i: +,. i',,; i:.~'ol;lem ~. Itdyof' Ct,mie. l: That's right. I'm absolutely amazed the ~ay the flow goes rigl~t ;~.z,~..' but .{.t l)o(j:: do~Jl: wheI~ ?oc['l'e coming home a .tittle bit. Cool,ct]man Johnson: if you're late Molt don't make any or them. If you're in a ht~rl-:,,~ you make them all. Hay:)i' ¢:hm.ie].' What >'oft have ":.o cio iu heave betweel~ 6:30 and qLtarte'r 'to 7:00 in t he ,,ornil",9. Co;t~,cJlwoman Bit, let: I just wanted to know wl~o initiated it. So I :hove appt'oval. I don't I',av~; any prol'~lems wi. ti, the contract itself. Councilman Workman: Seco,d. Resolution ~90-77: Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Workman seconded to approve the Cooperative Agreement with HnDot and Eden Prairie for signalization of Trunk Highway 5 at Dell Road. Ail voted in favor and the ~otion carried unanimously. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. AWARD OF BIOS: 1990 SEALCOATING PROJECT NO. 90-11. G..t':'7 Warren: Thc, bids For tl~is p~'oject were opened today at 10:00. We had two I ' I J I ,. o~.ou,'_:r.~:. A.1].J. ed glacktop ~ho was the leu bioder !,as done ~he City'~ last. th;-ee City Council Meeting --.Jul? 9, 1990 projects. They're real familiar with our standards and requirements. They were very close to the engineer's estimate. About $9,000.00 below it in fact so we are recommending award of blds for the 1990 sealcoat, thls ls for a street repair° p~'ogram to Allied Blacktop in the amount of $110,209.00. Ha/or Chmiel: Gary, I just wanted to bring out one thing. I know we've been getting these ninth hour situations. Twelfth hour. Thirteenth hour. And I think that if we don't have the blds in our packets, I think it should be laid over to the next particular meeting because sometimes these bids take a little longer consideration. Thls one doesn't but I'd like to see that done. If we can get those bids in in our packet at that specific time rather than getting it at the Councll meetlng. Gary Warren: I appreciate the concern there and we try to avoid this as well. On the sealcoating project we've got a tough weather constraint by trying to get this done by mid-August and you'll see in the Harvey-O'Brien one I guess the resider, t~ were trying to keep that project roiling but we certainly understand and we'll comply as best w~ can. Ha/or Chmiel' Good. Any discussion? Hearing none, I'll make a motion that we accept the 1990 street repair program ulth blacktopping. Low bldder of $110,209.00. Councilman Johnson.' Second. Resolution #g0-78: Mayor Chmiel moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to award the bid for the 1990 Sealcoating Project No. 90-11 to Allied Blacktop in the amount of $110,209.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. AWARD OF ~IOS: HARVEY/O'BRIEN SANITARY SEWER EXTENSION IMPROVEMENT PROJECT ~0-5. Gary Warren: The bids were recelved July 6th on this project. We had good bids. The low bidder was F.F. 3edlicki. Frank Jedlickl. Local contractor who's very experienced in this type of proSect and I think is a real good selection for deallng with the project ina sensitive area like thls. The bld was ~ little bit over the engineer's estimate by about $~,000.00. However, they're very competitive bids and it seemed a price contract so we hope to work with the contractor to keep close within the range of our original estimates on !he project h~re. Again, F.F. Jedlickl lsa low bidder at $3~,~S7.80 and we're recommending award of bid to hlm Ln that amount. Resolution ~g0-7~: Councilwoman Oimler moved, Councilman Workman seconded to award the bid for the Harvey/O'Brien Sanitary Sewer Extension Improvement Project No. 90-5 to F.F. Jedlicki in the amount of $34,637.80. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. RECOMMENDATION FROM THE COMMUNITY CENTER TASK FORCE. Jeff ~ros: Good evening again. I think you all have the feasibility study that was done by the Springsted group. At our last task force meetlng we were fortunate enough to have them come and explain it all to us. The task force C~Ly Col.~llc:i]. H~.;.-'t.[I~9 .- JL~ly 9, 1990 then met again after con~J, dering ~lll of this and 're..-reading .ti and going through a .tot of ti,,; information that ~e had already gathered on the community center and out of t],e ,~hole ?~,-ingsted '.~iudy ue dec'.id~d that a covered ice surface probably ~ot ..t ~ood :ids,,; at this time_ ~o know the~'e's ~t need for ice surface .;.~ town but [o ~p~-~nd tJ,c~ money to c:over it and have ~'~n i~mdoor [aci].ity, we just cou.ldn't justify ~'L ,::t tl~is time. The~'efor~-:, our recommendation has been ~odJ. f.tcd slightly. IL is to build the base complex ag He have recommended pi-cvJously but at this timr, omi'l:tif~g tho covered ica and putting in just a good outdooi' ice facility ~ith refrigeration in it. Dy adding the refrigeration to it Hc can hopefully, of col, Faa depending on ~eather', extend the ice surface soa:~on up to about 2 months on either side. It :~ould control the surface of the icc ::o that hc~;kuv g~ma~ o~' figul'~-; skating or uhatever ~ould have a much cleal~er, much safer, faster ice st~i"face for' '~.hos:~ uses. 4nd then in the event thai .il~ (h,:¢ fu'i.~i'c tl':~,t cuvuri~9 ii is deemed Feasible, il':.; easily dona and the equipment: is aJ. ready in place to do it. I don't kr,oH if you need to see, ~e brough( down onr:~ of the drawings, the f'elldJ, tions from before. ifiayoi' Ch,i~]el' !,Jlly don't you do ~.liat 5elf. Jeff Bi-os: Of c:o,~rsc Lhi:~ ir; one of thc older drawings sc it's not absolutely ~c:c:ur~t¢ but ac. yOU O,lP see here, again 'tile school is here and the proposed building her's. ~9,~.(;, l',e~'¢-;'s the ice arena as it was cat'.Iisi- proposed. The ice surface ~,¢ou.ld be agaJ. n in thc cabs position. It connects to the building there but i( ~ould not br~ enclosed. ~gain it allo~s us that in the future it could be cleemctd reasJb].e and necessary~ J.'t would be either- bubbled or an actual structure put greet it. W~'re open to ti]aL and ~t ti]is time i%'s not even ~orih talking about. Part of the recon,~mendation also is 'Lo purchase, it's approximately 3 1/2 acres of the Hanson property on the nortl~ side; of the scfmeol property line ~hich is cur~'ef~tly rigfmt about here. Thls ~ay any additional space that ls taken up by the f,-~c.tlity, this wfmo.l.c green space could be sh.Lfted to the north a little bit. Zt would actually add a considerable amount of land to the park surface. A~':;' fie.id placsments LI',a'L you see hei'6 al'e just sl',own to just show size. Not neu;::~:'.:a:'ily f.l~:~l placemerm( but ;~o had Mike Lel~meyer ~a just want '~o get a rougf: .~"1-:.-~ ,~[ ~.~Im,tt. k',: could do t,~ith that green space g~nd llow u~:cab].~-; ~.I: l eally would bc~. The 't,:~:njs courts ai'~ irm the same location. Things could be worked around that wftho,t~ an>' ,;tdded expellee there. We feel that tim.is !s a vef'y workable, vei-y LtS~:'f~z] c:enter for time City. We think that it will become the focal point for the City. Festivities like the 4~.h of July party ut, here over thls pas[ wr;~kermd just soft of point out how ~,uch the city needs to be brought together. You know we'v6 talked so many times about how diversified our city is with tho school dist~'J, cts and Excelsior and Minneto'nka and all that go on and we're drawn apa~-t, bJc feel that this center can also help bring 6har, hassen back together and ti'eats a :'eel positive thing in this to~n. Again, going through the Springs:ed llui, bef-s orm Appendix B, abouL 10 si' 12 Page~ ilm, you'1~ sec that their' nul,bcf's are bossed o~, Li',u cchool situ and a base type facility with or t~ithout 1ce or a preln.[u.m facility_ We rmeve~' at any time im~tended to b~ild a prel, ium facility but tn,..y did wan~ to ,?ut those numbers in just to give LiS something to go by_ Our idc¢~ of ;; bast: typ:~ f~:c.tlf.';.>, would be similar to constf'uction close to what the ~den Prairie Ce~'m~e~' is now. So it's a good Ltseab.lc Family oriented center. Ws'ru not bui.lding a Flagsl~.lp Athletic Club here. We have imo intention of doing that. Wc :~aT~t it family oriented. The number's ther~ ~ith ice at $4,105,000.00 rough.ly and ~.[thou'L ,~'t. ~3,105,000.00. Some good estimates on doing the ;r:,f': .[9,~rated ice would be somewhere halfway ir, between. It'd be where we'd be an>'ho~. So Lh~1.'s kind of what we'~'e looking at. We feel that this is a useful 10 City COLtr:c~l H~cting - JLtly 9, 1990 project. Again we think it will help to unite the city. We think it will give our children a good safe alternative place to go. We think that the school will benefit from it. The school system is excited about it. Our children are excited about it. Our' parents are excited about it. Agaln, we just hope that the CZty Council w111 allow it to go on to the November ballot and let the taxpayers in this town decide if they want to absorb this or not. Appendix O also shows rough estimated yearly tax increases that would be needed for thls f:~cility. We think it's an item that the taxpayers in this town need to make a decision on whether they want it or not. Do you have any questions? We have other people from the task for-ce here who'd be more than happy to ~nsuer them if I can't. Cour, cilman Johnson: Jeff? Jeff Bros: Yes. Councilman Johnson: This does include a senior's facility in here? Jeff Ores: Th~: center includes several, in this area next to the gym. They've got it marked a soclal area that was more than 11kely upstalrs from the locker ~'ooms will: l~'ge meeting rooms you know ideally with moveable walls. Partitions. Things like that so we could have a designated area that they could use. Mayor Chmiel: That would be upstairs? Jeff Bros: Upstairs. COUrlcilman Johnson: We're just completing a senior's task force needs assessment. Should be done here in the next month. Preliminary thing ls that a permanent senior center is something that looks 11ks it mlght be needed here in thls town. Jeff Dros: And that was one of the groups that we were keylng in on... Councilwoma;~ Dimler: Jeff, I was not real sure what the final plan was. Bo we have a room in there that's large enough for let's say for large gatherings? For rental for weddings or whatever. Jeff Bros: This whole social area, depending on how you could make walls move, partitions and such, would be entirely feasible. Again, as to actual size hasn't been determined yet. It's going to be sitting on top of 4 racquetball courts, it ought to be a pretty good sized room. Resident: Jeff...senior site is 4,500 square feet. I think the State Building Code addresses the occupancy of about 15 square feet per person for receptions so we'd be looking at approximately 300 people could...use that space. Councilwoman Dimler: Okay, thank you. Hayer Ch;..',ig.l: Do you have someone else who would like to say something? Jeff 8ros: Okay, thank you. 11 City Couf:uil ,~!e:~tlng July Cl,/-J.c Po].~:t~;i-: I'm, Chi-i:.-.: Po}.stor. I live at 0020 Hidden Court and I would just ].ike Lo e~lco~f'age the Cily to very serlousiy consider' ti,~s ~s well. Speaking ~s ~ p~ront who's boon deep;y involved in recreatZon programs, I see the situation ,~.:~ being very despere.t:e. Z[ I-e~lly is. The kids community population is gi-o~.Jla9 so much :}F, eAk~n9 '~oY b~ske(bal1 alone, we ~ust dldn't have enough room f(,] a.ll f'-.,,n kids Speaking a:~ a business person, we need,olace..~ to meet in this cJt>, ,~s well. Ws really only have one place to meet right now. We'll have another' as (he o(he~' hotel coos is coming in but ue r, eed more places. And speak.~g a,.:< a pci':30R who also participates in adult recreations, I need a place to play too. ok,~y. I'd 3[.t;t 'cOoOt.tY'ag~ yOLt [0 really give us a chance to do wha~ :~e Lhll,k '~¢: no,:d to do. Thanks. W,:,nda ~.._'.i].er~ I'm Wands 8eilr.:i-. I li'..'a at 910 Pen,--,mil~t Court in Chanhassen and I wo~ld a].s:u encoul-aga yc~t to col]older tho c:ommunif, y cel]ter mainly f'eaooR,.;. I guess it boils down to or, e as a parent ~ith two children. ~o need facilities to have: th¢¢ :¢po,-ts ~ctivities availabl;.;. He're very sports minded people. We like to see thai and it's kind of sad to go to another community on a Sunday .~ftarnoon to e~:joy a swimming pool oF to enjoy something else ol,ly to fjnd ~ oi' 3 of oui' :~eigh[~ol'~ down the street doing tho :~ame thing. And the other reason t ouess as a member of the Chal,l,assen 3aycees, my husband mem',~e~' and President o'f the Snowmobile Club in town. We need meeting rooms. We ( I.., are v:~Fy limited. Ri~,::. now the Jaycecs meet in the Fire Hall iii the basement. It gets a little hectic %~hen some of the sirens, not sirens but the ar~our~c:emento a~]d tl~in9~ corns on durin9 our meetings and my husband also would !1kc to :,ave meeting rooms available. That's what we would like to see. . ~notkr-, .... ~'~.:o:.:o~: ~: .... ~hc.~ht :)f ho,~ toilighf. L~o ,~nd that :s' *hat,. the classrooms in the school are ve~'>, crowded a;',d I thi~k this would really help to ~!imina[e t h,;.i. Th.~n[; you. Hayoi" C,hm~.el: Thank :.'crt Wands. Oarb Rose: Barb Rose, 6771 Chaparral Lane. I guess I'd just like 1. o add a 1.!ttlo bit to what's already been said. I I-sally see a strong need ir, the com,:,unity. As a paf'ent with a son ~ho's ver-y active in sports, I meeLa lot of ol.i~e~-' p,sf-ents in this town and I feel there's a large, large group of people who ara in .;Ul:.po,'t of ,'z c:OilllmlUility Celltef'. ~e despsrately need sports facilities for- our- chi].d]-er,. I like to think of this ~ot -only in termc: of no~ but down r'oad. Z feel very, very sL~o]~gly 'that our childcell need places to go ~hen they 90~ to be 13, 14, 15 ;'eai'o old otl',ei' than Fillv's playing pinball or anything Ilk...' ,' i.I],,f ..... ~'d mucl] rat h¢~]- have a facility [o send them to and say hey don't you oet a f~'iend and go down and play racquetball this afternoor,. Z think tt'o veYy imporiarll: tinct ~e have a f'asponsibJ, lity aa pat-::nts to provide a facility, a pl.~::e For o:.t;' chi!d~-on to be uafe:. I think too the ineeting rooms afc: veFy ossential ir, this to~l~. I've been up at the school and I've seen the sef~Jor citizens ir, th~ lunchroom at the eleneRtai'y school for a place to meet al~d ~ think that's a :sl~amc. Z tl,ir,k thiu community needs to offer them aon~cthing betl. e~f-il,an a luilchi'ooB. SO Z'd liko ~o ~'eally encourage you to allow tl'~a people of tl~[:~ community to decide. Z think it's their ,'iglit. Thank you. Hayo'r' Cl~miol: Anyon,:. else? City Council Meeting -- Ju].¥ 9, 1990 Bill toebl: Bill Losbl. 7197 Frontier Trail. I do not belong to the Community Cst, tot Ta~k Force so I don't have access to the latest up to date information bui my informatioT] comes primarily from the local newspapers. Articles which ~..,..'~-r'.'~ i.~ublJ, sl:sd about 3 o~' 4 weeks ago. Mr. Mayor and members of the City Council.. The idea of a community center is a good one but I feel and so does c.~,e:-yol'~C sls,~3 I've talked with, that the idea is premature and that it is better to wait until ,~e car, afford to build a decent full scale facility and not go into debt running it. There's discussion regarding the possibility of the HR~ putti'~',g in a library where the Pony Express is located with meeting rooms which could be used by the va;-ious community groups which some of my previous speakers have mentioned. The independent consultant advised you that the operation of the community center would result in an annual deficit of $34,000.00 or more indefinitely for a bare bones facility which we the taxpayers would have to subsidize. This money sY;ould and could be bette~' used for contingencies of g~-eater p~'iorities. We are not anti-children or anti-activities but priorities ~.ust be kept iii their- p~'oi:er o~-der'. Citizens are not interested in having their' taxes go up as evidenced by the large number of people who came to the Board of EquallzaLion to have the valuation of their' homes lowered. Chanhassen students ,~ill want to be with their Chaska friends possibl/ in the new Chaska community ce:,~.e:-:scheduled to Opel; this fall. Looking to the future and a proposed middle school on Route 5 between Audubon Avenue and Route 41, a community center in that a;-sa would be a bett~3~', much better location. 6 swimming pool and other facilities would be more compatible with a junior high school. Downtown is very crowded now. If a COlnmUl]ity center is put neal- the elementary school, the area would be eve]] more crowded. Parking is a problem. It is practically impossible to drive on Laredo when there is any school activity going on. With a community center there, it would be totally impossible. There are about 11 acres ~,vailab]~; I believe and locating it in that area would eliminate any future expansion for the elementary school and a community centeri I am sure that you're also a~are of the fact that Eden Prairie and Plymouth both with much larger populations than Chanhassen are operating community centers with ongoing deficits arid it should be interesting for you to watch how the Chaska facilities will do financially when it opens this fall. So far you have shown great fiscal · ..'ss:ponsibility in keeping expenses fo;- the City to the essentials and as a '~.-es:tlt ou~' taxes did not have to be raised. I do hope you will continue in this vein. II~ view of all the above, it would seem more logical to wait until we as a City are in a better financial position to build and maintain a structure we could all be proud of and which would be self supporting without becoming a burden to us taxpayers. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you Bill. Is there anyone else? Hearing none, we'll bring it back here. Any discussion? Councilmar, 3ohnson: Well, I'll start it off. I think that placing this for a ~-~f~'endum tram fo~- th~ full citizens to speak out and tell us what they want is a good idea. Especially if ~e do it in November where the costs are very mir, i~,al. ~e've all'eady got the election judges and everything else. It's just a matter of adding. What is the cost Don for adding an item to the November election? Don ~shuorth: As long as the item is a part of the election itself, it's solely the cost of publishing. You still have the ballot. Very minimal. $100.00- $~00.00. 13 CoL:.noJ.~:~,a','~ Johnuol, ~ mouplo hundred non dshuo'.'tl - "', ~ ........ .... u .... ~... ,:~,:-'.y hu. Yc the ballots. I,. :: at~ add!tionc, 1 line p;'i~t.,',.d o.'~ tl'~el-e. Yo~ !~ave the judge~. ,S'.ount.ilman ,]oh~'..:::on'dnd tho::;a are fixed cost'.; that ~ol~'t vary ~hethe:- you add ~"-.', ~tc~:J ' . ..,,,. mo;'2 ,.o ~!. o'r nc-t? C.o:~nc:t~i,~l, .:o~...c:l, Okay.. T think ,~not,her cost will be the cost of summarizing th.'.: IlmilLe'F[L~] a~d I)uttii,g out information ~ ti'mat th~ citizenc have Znformation tn bas~ [hoJi' ~udgme:'~ on. ~hatever st:fl costs there i~ for attending public ,,~t.,nti,-,.as. a~d ~,~ho.t,'~v,:~'. Similar t~) ~l,~,t we did in ~ hu~',-y a few years back but ~c,~d tq~:'l! have :,o~[hs to pr'cf, are versus ~,~hat toas actually only ;t couple, it ~ * .. ~': ...... ii,e. Yeal~. that't~ months 8 ~cu~.::.:: ~''.,'.m t [;;., ~ '[~c, ~ [ ~ r e~el, b~r' right ' I;c ,_ ,~ ~ ,. '. · not ~' ,,.. ],, [.- - ' .... ~,o 6 ,,~n~::t:: .,::. :~e ',,c :'~c~> ~:.l ::: mort{ho I think that in the n~xt 15 months ~;~: c,';r, do a lot of education: here to 9s".: +f.c ,)ro~ and co~,,:s and hav~: a lot ,'~f l)ub].ic meotJ.,.'~9{; and ~ !or of dJ. sc:us;iorl ~ith this and ~e't~ have a ve:'y ~Zse *,:xpaycy ~o ::~,~}.:~ - ,,ot~ o]',, ~.t ti': Novemb'~,- l. . , ~1 ~ :,~,yo: ~n,]~l.:.eJ. Is t[l~t it° Counciluoman DJlmle;'- I ,~..~ve ,x row questions o',r Don too. Don, there ~as a ' ~ b:-: pushing our bonding l/.m~t to the hilt and I was gu~t ~¢onderlng if in >'oui' opiniom, thel'e are o [ ~1~ e ~' pressing conce~'ns f.l'mat should have ~oal,'~ b:~" ' ' " ~,,Ud Ll~a'i. 'Ll'l~y' d ].ike to tyai.ls :'e--prlU..._.~ted but ~'.: ~ y:o.~ ~,uarc-' of ~ny oihei- type of ~eecJs. I ~ou!d ,.~n!J(':il-,,~[:} ,.tt sol;lo point in time ~Ju ~i]..l look to an additional addition a:[;soc.izt::d ~ith City Hall.. But ~ u:-:..~ tl'~t Au being> I don't ~nt to s~y ~ .:x~ ,~rl oL.t proL)ably in'to a $~00,000.00--,500,000.00 b~'~k.c,.. Hayor CI,mio].' Fo[I ,'.tn emcrgsr~cy o' :.;omething? I:; ti~at ~hat yog['Yl? saying? Counc'].lwoman O~mlei- I esl :)o~ A:'.:l~',~o: L','~: '4eli., with tl:e growth that the City i;a:: .se. un I talked with CouncLLm~n ~orkman earl.i~.~ in the day ~nd Z used thee example that Z bel.teve y~.,.~'s ~9o ~e 'n~d Looked to a d~bt 1Zmit of ~bout 3 ~illion dollars and ~t that I)O.{nl: J.l: tJi:m~ !.ha voter~ ha~l ~}pproved thc additiorm on the Fire Station :':ou[l':ern Cl'm~inh,'i:~:~;en, atn. for 2 Jt~il].io~, dollai-s. ~y righL~; that should have taken LL3 LIOWfl t(J ~{ debt li:nitatton of i ,:i].lioi, doJ. lars ,~r:d hypothetically co~:id have s,tid th~ $.}l,:e type of thil:9. ~u'i-e taking it do~n to the very :)o~.tom. ',,:ha~ ha:.: ~.o I)o 'rcmemb::red i::: that, ii: t.i':at calculatioll deter'mining your e,-c'~` t of "~';~ .'.v:~sal~ V;~llL~e Of +ho O01ll~,LtYli!.)' 80 each /ear that xol':,' oYei".~].~ ~, - ' :, ~ :mit : ' ' ' ~ ~ " .. .o~.~.,,~ :. :.; illCi'e~ui,9 ~l~d a:. 1:1-~ :same Foin~ ~n time p...ky~.T,g :: ~: ;:,.:3':'".. o:': c: ;'ou:' Jobt so $400 ~ 000 . 00-$500 , 000 ~ 00 io dropping off tr:e' sched~1:~ ~:,').'T.n:~:,.ead" o~, havi~g a net 11mit':~oi.~,. ~;:' ~: ,;L!l~on dol].~ro, Ue'lrn ].oOkiT~O CL{i't"~Yl~].y ~0 ~ R,7:[ limitation of 5 lnillion. Zt'z reasonable, assuming 14 City Council Meeting -- July 9, 1990 that this would be approved by the voters and it would be roughly 4 million, you might take tho position that well we only have a million dollars left in our authority. We].]., that would be true if we were immediately going back and looking to build something. But again, if you went over an additional 2-3 year period of time as has transpired since 1988, you probably would be back to that 4 or 5 million dollar figure again. Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. Well, that leads me to my second question. If you were given a worse case scenario and that would mean that the future does not pay out what we're forecasting as far as membership and revenues comlng in, and let's say that our operatinc losses exceed $100,000.00 per year which could happen and itl fact it happened in Eden Prairie. Do you see that the City of Chanhassen could shoulder such a burden? Don Ashworth~ We're looking to approximate 3 1/2 million dollar operating budget. 5100,000.00 deficit is not something that you take lightly but in co,~parison to your overall expenditures, I mean lt's not something that would devastate the City. Other areas would naturally have to give to cover that or more logically, you would try to minimlze those loslng type of programs or activities. Councilwomar, Dimler: ~Jould you be increasing the taxes to cover that? Don AshwoFth: That would be an option that the City Council at that point in time might have to grapple wlth. T would anticipate that Councllmembers would rel:~ind mc of this discussion and say. Councilwoman Dimler: It'd be in the Minutes. Dot: AshwoFth: That they would not want to see a property tax increases as a rosult of ~:ome type of staff el'For in projections. ~ believe that Fi)-. MacGillvarey has done a very good job in terms of estimating the overa!l revenues, expenditures for thls type of a faclllty and I guess I feel comfortable with it. Councilwoman Dimler: Okay, good. That's what I wanted to know. Okay. So with those commentc I guess my comments are that I really do think that a community center lsa good idea for Chanha~sen. T do see the need for meetlng rooms and facilities for large events. Gymnasium space, swimming and other )'ecreational facilities. I'd also 11ks to see something that brlngs our community together ~.s Jeff indlcJted but I ~t111 am of the conviction that in order to do that, that we should not put the faclllty in the downtown area. I can see us gettlng · some acreage whe're we can expand beyond the bare bone~ facility and al~o eliminate the lack of parking space at the facllity by the elementary school ls pl~guL, d w~tt,.. Tt's my opinlon that ~ mlddle school 13 more compatible with the community cen~oer and that we st111 wlll have the advantage of worklng wlth the ~¢hool district and that to me means that this facility is really several years do~n the road. I do want to see that it is a community center and not a ~pecial interest cents)' feI' a few. And I think that the indifference that was shown by the lick of attendance at our public information meetlngs last spring st111 makes me doubt that there really is a hlgh demand for the facility. I think that the large attendance of taxpayer~ at the Board of Equalization just 2 nlonth~ ago 41so reinforce~ the idea that people think their taxes are too high. ~,lnk lt's reasonable to see how Chaska's faclllty goes flrst. Do they get Tt~, 15 -. ' - ' I i _ i '~ ~ "~ei:,' .'_~.nticzp,:~tc,,J r,c~l~bersh',.ps? ~,Jnc, i. ,:~¥'~ 'near_ ope~'at¢'n~., dafzcz~s and :.::..:c.:-r.: frorr: ~'.::,.~_r-' :c~ tuaf:$o::. ~ a!cc ki~o~ t. h,z~. I.h..,, auppo~-t of ~l':e. ,.ao,-,"~" force ...L'h'll]l.'~:~::~Oi ,. LJ': ..~lli:.; (.[0 i'G':. ::;Lt~j:'~,:'" i.I' x . ' , ,,~ [~.'~: ~..LI.~.'. ~. ~ ~. · I.;i~-¥';: .¢,~ ~ 2'~j~&F~g :'iD;. bl,.t:Z¢ i.L~ ~L .... lilt ,'i L e La~k forae hanna and Z Has ,-~w,.~i-n I:1'~,:~¢~'t H6:; ~l'u}y ¥'r)p'r'a ;c~,:..~.l~g' ' "l~c;. i:aax' F-",r, ........ .... Z have beel'~ out hu:. a;.' :Eu:sband d~.dr:'t get not~fied eJ. thei' and he ~ao on th:~ ~-~,~ force so agaLn and ~f t~,~.:s a vafx sn1.ac~.ve rna.~zz,~g. T don t kno~ ~Jho wa8 or what ~he crLter~a ~a:':: for you ~o [;e on Z[-:at ,¥~ai!ing but I know that the :,ajorlt. y of the cilizene ........... ~-u,.~ing iL on ,.he November ballot ~,ake~ i¢ agai, ~ po].iLical '[oo~.ba.ll ~ncl ~hal's a ~:ituatio~ ii,at even ,',ozL of '~[~e ~a~k force I _~ ~u avoid_ 8u~ ~itn Ool~':~ a::;sui'ahc~ ,.ll~t~ ~r~'~ not coli~Bittil~ ~"'" ~ ~'"~ z .... ee ' "i%:n~L 9oing to c:o~t, much extra My (,I:]>' ,:':Oi';C:'~i':'j .[:J t l],.t~ th(: (" '...[ /Cl'l& o'? Cl',ai;ha:~sr-;n car; I'.,a~e +hei'~'. d~'cisior,~.~ ~aCl. S arid ;icl c,r, m$' ~ ...... ' u.,.i~ur'~,aLion that :~o alien :,.appens Ln referencluas t~;': c:~'i.~'.,{ c¢ "h:~ ~l:att.e;,' .fO thi:¢. 13o the rcs!dcl~tc of Chanhasser: u~ant to pay ~or · S O"~,¢iLtr;¢'[)' C:OIIt'' .... " u~: Tc ,~,_~1~d.. :~.and. :'o upr~'~L~. Lt...aL _~e~--*o.. 4.5 ai.lllon i..,....,: ..: ~}Oi'"~".- - ¢, ,,." '" '..' ~ )':. ,,AR,d ;~Ltlf]~)A". .., LHO , LI;a' .~.!. '::' gOiri9 ]:0 'nave ~ yeL~fly Op'-','a+ ..... ~.,~:~" ~.:~: :.~[ an, . p~per :::L~Le'~,~ of uemu .,.o,~..,,,000..00 and pe¥'[~ps K~ore. ~hoge~ ~'e -. ' · ~ '*'" 000 O0 was with covered ice. $27,000.00 C.~L~',C. ~,],,~r, 3ohn~:on tJf :]~la, ,.h~ .~..',4~ . ' ..) S-.,, '~':,i-, ', ~'1(: O0'Jd: ~ '3~~. ......... $2 · "-.x'~: r'h~,¢ o] '-. . That's right. ,~,SO0.O0 as opposed to the balance. · CoE~.i'~,::..L l',,~c,,:..'~:: ,~.. ' Bt, lc,'. t.,'~,.. ~. .,.-. ,; :..: ~, . . ..r ~" ,.,' ¢' +. wa r, t. ,:ha public to be a~,,af',"., t lla¢. ,. there "":" :'::.:: 4 yearly ope"atJny de" ¢~ Cut.tn,st!man Jol',Jl,.~on',,,*,',~I ...." '~ i~or'~.': lik~-; 3 !/2 million, not .,~' !;ayu," ...:,,[:~c- 3 J_ ;ts oppoue6 l.o 4.105_ Cc.;.:.'-'¢'¢1,,;-:.1,,.... Johf~son' ,,.~;~ht= but there uil! be extra because of +he, ref'r'ig,s'r-ated ' ' yb .~r::': ";'ir;)'' ~ '; :.;':.2'.~ i~9 '.:.J 111,3. '~ ..... / ¢., Roultc:iln:ar: Johl:$~i[' I',,~ ji~:z::. ".~r..cc'r'r:ed .':!:,out getting th,'; fa.crt; straight. ~Oi,ijL~.. ? '1 WOIiI~.TI m ' ~ - rN i ,, ~ L,~ill.,.er ,,..~ht Cet >'our' nulnb~'r::; ':'ight Jay. Hayo'r Chl~iel · Tlio,ia:::? C OLl;'i(.:.~. ~ .... ,',, :.:l,an W:) ,-,,,an 'Jr:";.tl..}, y.,.t ~¢t :~3 ~a>.' over or, one side arid then yOLt'f'e OV,'?i- Oil ~I':C otho;' :--:i¢1,3. '/ou ,~ltllil) far-. City Council Meeting -- July 9, 1990 Councilwoman Oimler: I didn't jump. Council~:,a~, Workman' I think your comments were very appropriate. Kind of a buyer beware situation as we head 1rite thls. I am delighted that we got the Spri~lgsted report. I think it showed some things. Had we gone to a referendum in t',le ~prl~g we might have gotten a different b111 of goods. I thlnk the Council showed a lot of wisdom in choosing to not take the easy route, although I'm not sure whlch ls the easy 'route here. I thlnk it made some mis-truths out of :~omc t!:ings that we've been hearing in regards to ice being a profit maker, etc. and :,hc kno;.~s. '~hen you get this all in the ground you're ~oin9 to learn all sorts of other things. But I think we've got a lot of facts from a reputable firm that has told us the bare facts about what we can expect. Th:~>"ve got more options ir. here than a new Cadillac. I too have concerns about our bondlng capacity. It's real difficult in a situation like this to explaln the positlon you're in when you're an elected official and you're being asked lc;' a very large item that we all want. I think everybody wants but you're tugged by all the volumes and facts and information that make you either fiscally conservative or 11beta1 or somewhere lnbetween. I conslder myself something of .z conservative and so it's very easy to say no. No, don't spend the morley. Keep it in the piggy bank and out of the banker's bank or wherever .-~nd ~t's ,.'ery tough to stick your neck out and so waiting is very safe for us to do. Financlslly. I don't think by any stretch of the imagination this ls the perfect facility but I think it outweighs, currently we do need facilities. We do need gym:s, etc. so whlle lt's not the perfect facillty I'm not sure what that is either. And I think things are going to ~onstantly get more and more exper, sire. Land acquisition wherever that ls. We don't have any real good ideas about where it should be but we know, I think that we potentially need some of these facilities. It's going to be very difficult for us once thls pa:;ses, iF ~hi~ passess, to continue on the string of what do we have 8 years of reducing taxes in relationship to our growth, etc.. We're not going to be able to say th,~t and so that's, we've kind of had a lot of pride in belng able to say that but maybe 'the other taxing entities out [o get into that string and allow ~s to have a little flexibility of spending some of this money, i'm nervous in approving somethlr, g 11ks this tonlght slmply because there's $o many questions ].eft to be answered. The financing. How much TIF can we use. If it were up to .m,e, ! would use all TIF and reward the cltizens of the community for what we did to then: with the downtown street. I'm nervous about the city school connection and where one ends and where another begins. The perfect marrlage says that ~e']l all give and take and we'll have a good tlme and everything else. I don't .know where all that ~i11, where doe*- our authority come in? I'm assuming we have .~ better than even share of the authority. Will the referendum and the cost, the bondlrlg take into account the purchase of the property to the north? Is ti,a!, i~cluded in this? I'm getting a nod yes. 8111 Loeb1, I think your comm, ents sum up just like Ursula's, very well the concerns of many of us in regards to our financial stability. I know our bonding and our accountants and audltors have glven us an outstanding bill of health. We are in good shape. And that's been the questions I've been asking Don ~shworth in regards to what, how far should we stlck out necks out here and I do feel confident that we can ~eather somethir, g like that. Is this the proper facility. As yea say again, I don't know. What I would llke to see ls an officlal City Councll information s.hee, t on the facts and figures of what the consequences of this are. How much !s the total bonding? Where's the money coming from? What's the total cost? What the school site impacts will be as indicated by my comments? ~ho's got the authority? What the actual make-up of the faclllty wlll be. I thlnk we could 17 9¢t volumes of informatJ, on from Cha'--Jka on, ! t'ni~k they had an 80 member task FO,'¢:r: ,ri-C. lf: ..,t.'Z:'.,'y .]'f'()Hj; i1~ thc. C~.t)-" to '~ifld that OUt alld they ~ent all th'cough it and :..~'e', t ~,1]. th'r'ougi~ it. Th~y ;',aY not be interested in giving us that c. on.-~.::fl~r, cc:..:~ ,,~.~].l be ~" rega'¢ds t.c tax~s. Increase. ir, taxes and/or TTF. I g're~ u~, in Cl';;,;:~ka ,~r;..'.! ~ d ',,- .L v ,'e bv tl~t~i'~- faci].Lty ave'tM da>'. It is unbelieveablo but .T.. t~l. , ~¢ouJ. d .... r,i';.:fe'r- no* to 9o dc, b~n ~o ~aska and Z ~oui. d ,,~o,',,fe'r not ~o send my kids · ,_,~,~,, ,e ~l~a::;k,'~ ..':.T.,~hei' for sc~ool of recr.'_:atiol~ if I had a choice. That ~ay:~ :,,..'.~ ~:J R'J ';!':0 "~ - ' ~" " .... _ Cf .... ~,,.... '.': co:':venien¢~ of shoppJ, n9 for 9'r'oco~t ..... -.~oLi'~9 to ~:chool etnd p.-'.t;-t,Zc&pat~n9 &n atl~!~'..-.*J.c.z here &~, th~, ! ti~l.'. 1.1,,:'. com~nuni(y center Zs so~e..thir, g that we cal~ use. l',~, not so sure as ' ' ' * ~; ur, it that ~; have or, tl~e C~ty council to :~ay let's ,Toff ,:.nc! Z t,-..1.,¢c6 auou,, bl~ y . 9C fO," '~. {:~l'.L r.3f' OldE', one for all anti make this a ~'cal ~pecial place. I don't ,kno~; that we.'l-~,; doJ. ng t.h,.,i:. I'm ~lot in tl-,~; f,ab:i.t of pf'~edictir, g elect, ions 'h" ~. I... k.I. but ,. a,n ~.~.~ling ~o allo~ t~:~ voters Lo decide at ~:,z~ ~i,z,e ~hat they ~ant to ,.tu_ If ,..'.e cai, laF :;t nut will, enough detaLl3 fo~' this Council to be happy ti,at t.h~ ~:.;'o~,.'.:,' t,,fo'r',,~..~ti'.or, is o~,e p~.ece of paper at least so that the voters are makin,~ u.ts.~; det:ts~ons and tax pay.{~:~g reuc'itc'.'-'~; versus tl~e commu~,ity center ~:,~-'o~:.o,'~,..'-.nt-., a¥~d a:¢ ~?oon-as the ,neeting's over 9et to their perspectige corners ~l',d t;omc o~.ti: and pJ. tch thc tl-,ir, w. I don't like to vote for things with a neg~';~ve cor,~,o~:~t:cr, sa>':~g yeah, okay. The voters should decide because dui': t ].u~' ~i'~e;',~ -' ''" .... ~ thinJ~ I:h~y harm tho+ right ~1',~*' ~ '. ,...~L~.u~ ~.'lfl d COl~ffil.lll~S~ .............. ' ' .... ~,i'g ,o~-,f~e ~nc ~ like ~u 9o .i~lo things ~;~'th a positiue 4,.,.:iii ', ' " c~c.. Sa}-'.~.~g /~::, ~. n:: for i+. and that.'s why .. · *hink,. a rsf~r'c:~du,,., is a good ,,o.. ~.~.~;, _,~. ,., ,,aw,? a referendum so that I can pFove the voters wTong. ii,ink ~,~; (;a~ d,, it. I tl~Lnk there'~ stLll .xn a~ful lot of questions that need 'Lo be pair:ted in this pcoces~ for it tu be fair and honest. ~nd ~ith one final note si~ould this refere~du~n not fail I b~ou~d" ' . , ... ,~o,. be Lnterested in another r¢:t,.:.r'endu~]~ ',n the sp~-zng. ¢~(I probably not ','~e;.:t fall. ~m I still going to be on 'the Council? ,~z~, £hi~,~s]. ¥c.s. You ye go( anotn~.r ;'eat- *o go besides that · - . "1 · .i. I i · ! CO',i~t:.~.lil~,7, i~ .'roi';r~-.-:,;n: YOU'Ve 90t ~ ;'eai"~-; Yet. Counc'"li;~,.~n blorkJ:~ar:' ~J. gl',,t. Bt.ct uhat I'll, saying i:;, should this thing fail, I don'" r~e~n to ~::.ut all the ecg::.: ~ one basket but I think the b~ggest fear that '.;ot.c~.--and taxpayar$ have is ~h-' ' '* .... ~ >'ou mzgn~ as well vote for the darn thing k... '4~ T .~.cau;.c: .. -' uo ns to keep com.~n9 back a~d cem)ng back and they're go&n9 to punch u~ ~.n thC: te~;tl: unt~~ .... ~e 9ct ~t back. tand n ..... <,. sPf'&n~ u~outl'~ be too ...-,e .... lure. ~o anyu~ay, &t s some(h~t'~9 that ~ understand, recogn~z~n9 taxpayers concet't,:~ and Cour~ci].~,~orr,~an _qi;r~]..._-.r" ',.i.~i:t the.,, torch? liayc'~- ¢''' ' '._'.., ,. Lbo tOf'¢:h a,ld r'tti'~ .......... Yeah. 18 Ci~.->, Council Meeting --Jul? 9, 1990 ~o.~ncil~an 3ohnson: Then ~ move approval Councilwo~,~an Oimler: Do you want to speak? ~'lzyor Chmiel: I didn't ask for it yet. No I guess with what Tom said and some cf thc things that Ursula said, I basically fully agree with it. I even looked at it [,-o,~, another aspect with the potential of maybe not going fully with what tl~:~ hockey issue-;. I wa.~; looking at. the two different things. One, the swiml~inG ;~.;~1 po~.Jbly to have at this particular facility plus meeting rooms and gym. From looking at it from that aspect and checking with two other cities who have pool.o, it's very equitable. Very profitable for them. Not enclosing it at this particular time. Something like you're talking with the hockey. That was anol. h9r thing that I thought about. Bonding capacity is one of my real concerns and 5 asked a question of Don. What in the event of an emergency that we would have to have or if ~omething were to happen, what could we do and we couldn't do ,;.~ck. I too rs. el that th~ voters should have their say whether it's needed or ~,5t. Cut I a~..~o fee]. that at one given time, was it 3 years ago we had the last rcfer~ndum for it and it was voted down. I felt the voters had something to sa~ ~nd just as Tom has said, it comes back again and again and again and that has b~on done within the City so much, I don't like that aspect of it. Once an .%s:~ue comes to [~ass and it's voted upon, those people should be the people that ~av3 their opir;io]; as to whether they wanted it or not. I don't like playing games. I never have and I think as I look at this, I'm not too much'in favor of it being located where the proposal is within City Park. I'm not in full agreement there at all. ~ think it should be somewhere but possibly not there. I look at [t from the aspect of total number of vehicles. T;'affic flow. We've got enou9;', traffic flow the way it is. So to eliminate some of that of course w.~ have to move it to another ar6a. One of the other things too that I had thought about if we put this on the referendum, I'd like it stated in a way that psople exactly k]]ow what it is. Not do you want a community center or don't you want a community c~ot¢.r. I'd like it to be indicated do you want a community c~nter and will you [)ay additional taxes for this center because as I mentioned b.t[ore in al! the door knocking that I've done and people who have called me and I ha,.'~ had more than 5, maybe more than 20 to ! calling and saying they don't think a community ccnt~.r sh.~uld bm built yet. I fee! that if we were to prog[-ess with this and knowing that wa do need thes~ kinds of things, I'm not opposed to i%. I como up with plenty ideas from time to time and I talk with Eon and I say, what about Pony Express for the elderly. Having them utilize that .particular facility. Or if Pauly's not using their on-sale liquor, use that area. Or 8andimer¢ Park that we have with the house that's there, the farm house and also a barn. Renovating that. Looking at that. Seeing if it could be dor, c. Of course as we look at it, it can't. You come up with some silly ideas and some thoughts of how can we do the best 3ob we can for the City but yo~. keep tl',o taxo:; at a level that everyone feels comfortable with. As most of you know, within the last 2 year's taxes have gone down-and everyone likes that cxcept for som~ that we had at this last meeting. The last Board of Ad3ustments and hi~pea].. W~ had approximately 140 some people pounding that right up there a;]d wore ~'~ot very happy. Things we should do as Tom indicated, summarize this :~.ntJrely. Put all the facts there. Let the people become aware of it and I don't fee! comfortable in saying we should go to referendum this evening. I t. Jant to s~e all those things put together. We look at it and then move from thoro. Some of tl~c othe~' thi]]gs too. With numbers of children and I know that we've become a v~;'>' prolific community which is neat because kids is what makes 19 thi:'-'. ~lo'r].cJ g'.'; 'r'o!Irl:! *,i ...... ~* ' ' ..... · 4,~.z>-' Jo.3[;. I kllo~,.J I '.?c: 08011 ir, ua!rod ir, youth in i:',y yeLLl'lg;:.'r d,1}':fi f(s'~' .lO )';:-ar'::; .[.E i~.,-Igdg[I]g kitt. lc Leagues and Legion ball ~'vc had h:y parts ir, voJv,':cl in 'i:l~t. Air'sa ~:~ ~ Sub Scout master aa Z know ...... "' _ .. ' '' nd finding someplace rot ::' {~: ~o kac:,., "'h~sL, J:/cl:_-, goJ..s ,&r:d keep *hem ac:.lue a I hem to get ~hj.:; ' ~. , . ,. (~c.,f,,... ¢Ltt I gL~O:-~S yight now a:_~ t just mentioned, I would like .i. I { . ~o.~,. : ~-~.,_.~ * I':,:,o.'-.... _ ~. thir!g$ pu' !.ogu~ h.';';. .~; r.;~_o wJ'.,L;,l'.. t~'~' re,, ~ilK~llg . The CiLy park :~:c * '.-;,'~y s ::o!' '_',ne of 'th- ' , Jio' f3.;; auld "'. "~" it should be ~ : ...... aaa. :~s Z 1 if. sh ,. k .... Z t,,...~ ...... . ....... ' ~ ........ ^CqL[iF :':OF4CW:'::".;.; u!~C. !l£t~~I .... ' ',:i~.'.: i:,,.)i¢Ot;¢~- ~Ltll.~O J',~CjJl L, JJ'I:~i] t;!;,';'~ COifl,')$ ~11 .... · J~ ..... ;,'FOi~Sr'Ly ;':0~4 ~i'~,4- ,~,,V.O .ii 'O'i' ':.hat &3 ;g ..... ~. au CO;~,~';~LtnJL;' center, ~t's going ~¢.'¢. bt:: ..t fab; ,llO','r; dO~.~.,'~:':;.~ bi.ti. `"~. 'lJligk w.': I:~va 'to thir, k ahead wi'th c',. lot of those " ":'l 't I1 :~ould sort of make that h&ngu :.oo. Sc u~,., hat, . COLLgC'LJWO~iL~iI D.LI,]_eF Lli,'-.:.t ~,'~tio is t~,i~_. i"layor '::.,~,,,_~..]':-'.' To review, to 'nave Don ?ull together all the stats tha[ Tom ¢,.n~ Ui':~,ttJ.~t end ever; Jay h¢~s :said. h · _ 't A I'I CJ I l~ . CourJC:l[iWOlfl,:',rl ~,'._mPJJ .., :41,al'c; i¥~ this f'8. i~ort. id,:-:>,oi .r:.hml,_?. Plus wl~at'u .~n SpFil~gs...ed'c. ,~]:(, uhoc,~ -;~veJ; l;n~ estirr, ated market v,ilue of ~ -' ' .' ' ::OhiC::: p].UU f.:'ie _:stimated i~x increases. We have to b~- vei'y t.~T. LI: '~l,,r:: '..;ci,,o,~,.' ~l;.:_:"i ..... ~u,. J.~l wor-k~rlg t(j. tl-: Tzr' !)~:u,zt.~:.;o ,.n,:,:. col.tJ.d Hof'k Ag~l'lut the ::':chool .:l} '.t }-:ct Lc,:. 'f Ho-. :r~(:,ve too f~i" to th~ other s&de, it ~ould sffect ¢~ ....... : S"'o NC : ' .. 1: ' ' ..... ct ..... I:G.23 ~:)WLttCl~ d]iL~fr: C~i' do._~.:'~: ~l'c 9o.[n9 and hah riley're Spt?Trot 6.6coi-' d.f rm~'' m ~ . u--/ . ,;[l.~ '12f ~[iE; Ol::~l'el' [h~llg5; ~h,At ~ ~OOl(O~ ~t O~ {ho r: J' ., .. 'h'", '- C~'~'~ ~9 tFi ;18~'g ~O0 HhZ~:g COUld CAUSe s,i>', t. hese a~',.~ tho 'hings that I'd lika ~o see ~ulled 'together pi-lair Lo putting ,~,~, ,;,,,~ uaz~, z~ ,. 9oe,~ it .2~3~. :f i( doesn-t, Z don't think ~t should come b~cL to tf~e Court, ell r~:-,i ton9 ~hi~-;_ 2 th~nk popu~t~on ~-; ~h~t ~a need ~r] ~hZs; Co'.~',~:]ti'nity 'o ,~a~',~2 ,.~8 ho k~'r,.d of ~ oentBr ~hat ~e ~"e~F need p~tLs not C. OUllC.LIUOIT~(F~ Di;r:le'.,'-? I tliink you h,.',v~ a good idea but I'd 1.ike to know how are ua oo.l::,] i.o ge*; i:h.;.~ out to ~he,. i;ut;l_,-'.~::. Are you proposing ,.~... mailing or in the F,~per or? ?layo'r Ch":~ ~. ~'h do one thing is tv -2[.ti ';~ in the ' l' :' I j . ~ ~ ] I'4ou].d SLLggo":tatwe _. ~',~!~f. ng. >¢~ ~'.a~,'~ ex~o~17 ho~ :~any homos? 34 ~ hundred~ ~n~ s f'~gi'~t ~ 500 .... -'~ .... ,~ . C(.,t: '" ' T' * $600 o:' . ':: ,t. i!.' :,.;.:..:.m~ti': ,]ohr, sor: .,. co'-3:.s .00 $Olficthillg fo] :i ii;z.liirig .T. tJiJ.~l., u L :! D(JJJ tJ.'::lLl~oJ't!'' 7 L,hi'~:,k J.t would run 6}out ,,_,00. 00- $900 , 00 . Mayo; Cl-lmie]' H.'.;II !.l',.'tt might he SOl, ct hillg maybe we :~hould do as well. .,~ Cz'~y OOL(:'~¢';~ A lot of cltles, have a quarterly or h.t-i~onl'hl?-si-i;~olltl~!? city neus:lc:ttel' tl~e? aend out. You know Chask& does i~ ~. ....t ~.¢1y, ' jLI~C~ I 2O Ci:.? Cour;o"]. Mcctir, g -- July 9, 1990 Mayor Ch,,iel: Yeah, we've talked about that too. ~o,~r, cilmar, Johnson: Yeah I mean that would be a great first issue Councilman '¢o'rkman' 3ira Mady already started it. Counc"].~,an Johnson' Don, before I second Four motion I need some clarification. I've. h~ard [wo different things from you when you're talking about your motion· On~- is not to approve putting it to the voters but waiting until you get the inforr~atior, together. ~.:>'o'.- Ch~~1' Today *'m not saying that .:~. ~ J- · Cr~ur~c.",!~an ~chnson' Okay, you're saying approve a November referendum and get this inforlnation together. Mayor Chmiel' No, I'm not saying approve the November referendum until we get al! the d&ta pulled together first. This can come back to the Council again. Come. [o a vote for that. Councilman 3ohr, son: ~e can approve that we have... Mayor ChmJ. el: I would move it that way though 3ay. Co,~ncilmar, Johnson' Okay. $o then I'm not going to second it because what I would like to see is that we say okay, folks· In November we're going to have th.~ rcferendu,n and we want to put all this information you want and I want and everybody here wants· We're golng to put that together and we're golng to get it out to you. If thai information doesn't come together, we have the optlon of pulling it off the referendum too. If for some season we don't get the information w6 want but I see no reason delaying the decision to let the people exp,'ess their opinions :r, November to walt for this information. That seems !ik3 just a delaying tactic. My experience is completely the opposite of yours. I almost have 100X of the people that have called me on thls lssue who have sald they want ~ community center. A lot of them voted against it previously for the slmple reason of it's locatlon and that they are now in support and they want the opportunity to cast a vote on this and I want to give them that opportunity. So slnce you haven't had a second, I wlll move approval of a November ?jf~'endun. Mayor Chmicl' We didn't, you were the one that was going to second it. I'm ~itir,g ~o s~¢ if uu have another second. Cc,.tnr:i].uoman bJ. nl].er: I gt~ess at this point I have a question too because I'm a 11tt3~ bit confused. I have said that I really want the public to know the f~cts end 5 can see the Council puttlng out something and somebody challenging that. Tho% that's not factual. Okay, that's probably more than 11kely to ~p?e~; so at that polnt if we haven't approved the referendum, we still have that option to do that. Is that what you're saylng Don? That's why you don't Mayor Chmiel' That's part of it. Because I don't know what those stats are going to be and I want to make sure what I see is going to be good for the City and good for everybody that lives here· 21 Counr:iluon,ar,, 0i,~,].:..:"- Okay. I [i~inl; wc",'.3 dot like f,'ort, ~h~ S~,¥'!ngst,xd repo[t, .... , ,',,~" ~ ,e d e f i c ~ . ' :tl~o know ,hat i'". ::; ~t)~n~ ',:o o,.~r~t at a _t Whateve~ ~hat number is 901n9 to [',¢:, ue dop.'t kno~ f~.-::=~-~-:~ ~ tl~Jnk if (hr.) F-eopl¢: just know those two .. · ..... , ..:1,1~ :i'. .~ ......~ solh:: of LI~o rao~s o~'[ ,... . C,:)un,:;ll~,an_ Jol',r~.s~n'. ul,..~'+ uc dol:." hav~,. ",;,. de. la? ti]is decisioi~ to, I mean we've .... ~ .e.~.,... d 'n ~e ' - ' ,~. o'r [)LI~ f' it' -'- ~ u,.'. ..........t ~ : ,.~ ;[: fei" ,.~.:~g 'u u~,.a .ogetheT. I don't think -~'" ~,~c~....~[t ,, ft.t~-t de~ .... t,.:~ ~i~r: dc,::isi,:)~ are w~; of a['o ~e not ~'. ~m.~ :'.. ,),1;;' : y .[~. l'ici .~,~z .~, ~ "-' " ' . ...... " "~* ~'¢' ~ ......... going to September w-::'~-': 5~+~'[',~,2... ~:',',; thc ,..'r'~,'¢~',~,,.,~.. o¢ c]_cction l~clitlc:::;. '.. ~:ee u:: ~c:[l~g to ~l,e,, ~c-";-'e ~:.-'*:-'-,,u tnt;: *:~e ,r,.idd.lc. of election politics 'f.o 2~ke th&o~ decisioa bc:ua~t .... *"':-: go'no to take ,, !~t[]_c ~hi!e to get th~:; ~nfoYmation together. I'd ¥';th~¥' have thJ.;: d.'.:cloion madu well before ~e sta¥'t election politics in :~.lcction ¢,.;.~ ~;1~i1'- '"'3 st a~y'thin~. This is thc Mayor ChmJ.'-,~-~.~ :. ¢or~"i: think this zu'- a c:ampaig;, kind o'~, a~ item anyway. You may t;ak.'e .~ lo!. ,:'..: peeps:'.: ~',1o ai-3 fo~' .i'.... ~ -~c}' ~ 9~!e:-'.:-: c].a if:ca !ch ~::: +nat ~:in ;~o~ ' '~ because of t' ~.i).'of' .... ,il, .: ;lly ;' ~ .......... ',:01.';.L ice. ..,,a,, ..'oI',[,:."oi, Oh no, no. I'm not ::'.aying you a,~'3. .'. . ° '~ .. r% .. ~1 -. I-~' ~' .... ::..~:~ .... ~c,}'~ ~oi~r,:-:oi~.: c,,'.tt '~ ; ,,,~ . :,~.: d:~l~¢, ~hi:¢ d.~c:!:s~on too Zen9 that it's ,¢o~1~.:~ ." be:,.':.31,,".-in:;s..:e~] L'.p .f.~; po].~ticc Vo'r'.sUS dsc:."s2or: rna~z~:.tJ. Z think that F-eoF. lc !,c',,-e d'csuTve. Everybocly:~; been ~allinu me and been sayirlg, hey I want Lo i,~ ~.-.. .I . ~ .,. ,~,,'~a'.'~ tl~..~,t ~,c.c;~si~ ~:~w and we ye ~ot plel~t.y o'f time ;o pu~. that infoi'mation togot,ha~' and app,~'c:.'.~..: Lh,-;t information~ t~hy hav~ ~taff ';'LtBrl;[FIg a~'o~ld putting "l',.lc; =:~f,)'rma::lor, t · -,, t~ .... , st . .... ~,_.,., c:, ~,1~,. ~a.'_'-;tin9 afl time Counc:{l~a~... Jollnsol: t,!e'r,~ goir~,.j to :-:~a>' wc'f.'; 9ting !.o pu,.' * it ol; the referendum. Hayo'r Chmiel' ,No, Z '~" "~ ,:::e "' "hat C...:;~c-.,~l;i~arl .... ¢:.,, !-; ,1j ,t ,. , I t,,;.;~k ',~ 9(;L . "two -2CF¢'''+,..~.. 9iOUpS here. ,he people ,lt:d Il,<::':':':3 a .:.fi;ait~:i';if:9 d.]'. ,. j.i'i~aI:WcOl;. ":ho;'c's a ,:~'-Otln~, ,- 0'r, people wi'Jo a~'a vai'y, City Council Meeting --July 9, 1990 and so it doesn't moan whether or not we have a need for a facilities because if you just lock at the f.~cil!ty side of it, we should already have them up. And sc. that's I think the gamble. Although believe me I've had people say to me, I b,'..~on.a to F!agship, uhy should ~ :sut)sidlze health club of those poor saps. think hr;'s r~:fom-ring to ayself too uhlch is ~ far re~ching, m far ended comment ~nd th~n kh;;re's comment~ =t the other end like I don't even have to make this decls.i, on ~bout a community center if I present as I sald, I'd 11ko the :,-,,,~r'~tion that , st~te,'J on ~ fact sheet that's approved by us And I would ., 'he fact sheet cannot be approved unless it's even say if ~hJ.~ !~.~ legal, . unanimous. Maybe Oon you'd hold it up but a fact sheet that we can all agree this is it and let them declde because I don't really have to make the declslon on a community center am,d i fee! comfortable enough about the City's financial sltuatlon. I have a couple reservations, '~hat I thlnk Don you're right. It co~:.l-d bo too early but Z'm ready to let the voters gamble on that and make that decision. I think there's suffic:!ent hot polnts in thls whole concept from what it's going to be. We might b.e a very large vocal hockey organization saying they're not gettlng enoug[m. We mlght get the ,Near Mountain people saying lt's nowher,'~ ne~r me, I don't want it. Lake Minnewashta people saying the same thing. I think the slte ls far from perfect. But agaln we don't have an alternativ.c. I think if ~o build a n, iddle school out near Timberwood and we get everybody from Near Mcuntaln on do~n 9olng out to Timberwood, we mlght as well ~.f'- . . ~ ~,..I ~ ~ ' "h~.m go to ~.,~=~,.~. And again, nothing against Chaska. I think we have learned an awful lot from Chaska but we're not Chaska and ~e're not Eden Pralrle and I think we need our own. I think it's high time we get something of our own Councilwoman Dimler; Well look who's jumping now. Councilman Workman: I used to high jump. As I told Jeff, i grew up without a sldewalk and without a community center and I turned out okay a little bit, sort of and so I didn't need it but I thlnk the City's kind of drumming for an opportun~.ty to say we need to start gettlng a few things in town for ourselves ~r,] maybe they're rewards. Maybe they're not deserved. If we find out the Clty's gol~g to i,ave financial problems. Our bondlng consultant says we're not and Don Ashuorth says he's riot. He's guaranteed me his job on it. Mayor Chmiol~ That isn't what he told me. Council,,an Workman' Then I feel comfortable with it and so there's, I don't think ~e're ev:~r golng to plug ever)' little loophole for elther myself or the ,,~yor or tho hish tax paying people in Near Mountain or on Lotus or wherever but I think we'rs glving these people then the opportunity to stand up and say not y~. ~,~it un. we h~ve ~O,OOO people in town and then we'll build a $ million dollar fertility. So I don't know. There's so many things out there that we can't, I've been ~king ~nybody that I've run into over the ~th of July and the bu~y weekend and I've been amazed at some of the responses that have leaned in favor of le.~ting the voters decide so that's, I think that takes the monkey off our back and I think if we pitt the statistics out there properly, it doesn't hav~ to ,mean th;~t we are promoting it or that we're against it. It's an idea that has consequences fiscally and community wide that they're going to have to take into ncccunt. We're going to get those facts that we feel are pertinent to the~., ~itho~t hopefully s.~aying them one way or the other and they can make the d~cision. It would again, !t would be hies for the community to get behind a p-;-oj;.'ct ].~ke this torch r',n that came through. We all get excited abcut a comii~on 'LhZil-~I gOnlC' Cf U-.'.. zn.d ...ay yep, '..Ye :~ant this arid we deserve it and let:~ far Zt ,-~'.ld b~.ild :zo!~.': visit? ir: tt~c p/'o,o.e~s ,';:thei' than getting the ¢o~nmunity s~nte? .'.~,a.i. tlng for 2 >'ear~ or 5 yea~'c doHn ~he i"oad for the unity to begin becal.t.-o:'_; wc:'v.'; bsP. l~ ,~'L~llllirl~j illtO people... Counclla.~n ~ohn,.::on' Can I ~¢k ~ question Tom? CouncZlman Mork;[,~n' Y.ep. Co;;.n¢ill,lan Johnco~,: 'Jl~erc do you ctand o~ tonight, ~l'.ich i~ what Don and I weTe ~,,"....,~' [[:g ,~l;o~', ~.," ~i:.[nL:t ..... o~- · - -u ~inutc:;~,~n~. Hhoti~ei' we should approve placing ~:~_:~ o~ }',4:. ~.,,~3 .... ,~ For No ....... ¥' toni ,- gn',. ho{id ~e Ha~t unti3, we put together ~h=, f,'~s:~ .... l... .... ~ .... ' ' · ...... ~ ,...m~,:.-:,~.heF .~.II~OYI[ic~LJLGI:? . ,, ~',:,F.~-ove j.!. Counc:il::,zi, ~c:-k,s~an: Tl,at's the original di. lemma that I mentione.d. That ~e have '..h.':. f,~::!.c'.. .":~,.-.] mzn!Lk'::, f%'~ just like wl~;~t Z .~xroued about the $750.00 for the tho cit>'~ Poop!e m.'.~vi.n.y Jn do]:'i. Okay, J f you're moving from California, you've Oot a ~holo sot of, different set of yules: so let's: make !t a llt'[lo ~0,.$ ~[~d : th~nk Zt~: our duty to I[l~ke that , ~ ~,:~,.::. er o~' not Nm fo'al comfoi'[a~, e~ouul~ N~[h [he f~c:t !.h;:~ Ne I~ave mF:d thel: ~ get tho facts~ out, thooe facto out to the public. don'L thJ. nk ~'n: jL~mpJ, ng. C c, ,.t ;', .:-; J. lWoiT~an ~imler; ?le tellc me I'm jumping and then he ;ay:; ]~e':~ not. o,~,~c.=~lnal~ hn$ol: I!e's danczng ~ ii+tie but not jumping. Cch u~e see if we " ' ~' ' '~ ',~,J .io,~ tho floor -and l'm uaz~in.; to see i~ · ,, ;.','.':' I:t,q ~ c'.l "'s ..... '.. . .... i L :' ~ il ~ mol · ,k ...... , .... . _. .l~.re O IlOt. .... · ,-.: .., -': ~:C:(:O;;d ~ ~"~' COgll~i]lwOli:a,: C~_I::z.., . ~oLt~.~, '"" TOpe,:. :.l~:'J ll:o+~ion l~,l:3a.sa N:~?oi' Cl'~n~iel: H>' ,',ot!on i~ that uc .~aL:~e~' all the data aTmd information I:o.gel'hc:i-_ N-" have am'mot ~,4~ mce:.~.n,$ ,;, ~e~'N;~[-d:s o:,.u~ ua see Nl'~at all that i~, even [houuh ~e have it here but there's some o~heT d~ta thmt's ~n our f&nancZal stmtamellt ~.h~sL i'~::~ ~ be pu.!lsd f~'om 1:here to be entered Znto Zt a~ ~e11. The thJ. n9~ that ~:hou].d be conjoined in it i8 kI~oNin9 exactly NheFe thJ.~ ~ at. Zt i,.~ ~ 1oain9 pFo;'ou~,~:on righL now. Zndic,~ting whit thr~ e~tim~ted tax increases ~ou!d be ar, d co,~pi].ing the c, theF data arid luokii~g ~t ~no[hei' ~it~ noL including th:_., c.~t>, site~ N],e?'e ~hat to- be. I haven't the fo~glest idea other th~n ao Tom .... · '' ~i[lm ~i . ;::cnt[on~d, ": .... ,jb'm'~c:Lio~, "',e~ ~u;'~ioF high To get that property even a~ I ;;,Oi;!.iC, l:o:.;. To bLt?' [:h,[l: i)l oHoi'l.~' ~]. tilmt pdr'l.}oE[3/' til[ie Co p~t. ,.lie both ra,-:i.!JtJlc.::~ on thel:'~:. Somepl~c:e !:o have 1t. r~nd then )'evieN the, also h~ve ..I .I. i · - O1 ,. ~l .... I[; ~ IflO O[ .. -..0 MO ' .. ~ · ,l~ ~ -' ~ .I [ I undoF:~tand zL but ther,z mfs. many ~h,]L Ni].~ To have thcs :n th.:,'n ,,,~u ,nan just ~J.c' ~:- .f.~;L.: :.: :::::.'t L,:for,~eL!olt,41 l,i~,d :;f i~c:k,.tgc and thel~ send Lt out to the I_ ,. · ~. .,;fol-a t.~:s ~'om..} ::F' wt:.ll the al'au.[sion. Z want to ::l~kc sure eveFythin9 !~ there. 24 ~ ..... ~'{~ Meeting -. Jul>' n 1990 City ..... : ..... , I:,.q not saying I'm not going to put it to the referendum or to the voters for a re.f:~:'sndum ir. Nove.e. be;-. I'm, saying I want to see the stats first before I make t.h~t, fin;~] commitment. '.Jo have thrown them, pushed them, moved them from one point to thc other and I want to see it all in one package. Councilman 3ohnson' ! do too but I think we still have enough information at ti~is point tc make that final decision. So if you get a second, I'm going to vote against you. Mayor Chmiel~ Okay, I have that motion on the floor. Councf!t4[:;:;,~n Dim].~r." S.,) you are then saying that to put the referendum decision sf.r ,.,..r;l.i~ ~¢e ?,ave this compiled? ,q~yo,' Ci',mlel' Just until it's compiled. Whether that be the next meeting of' -'. ¢-'. ~--+hat ho , ,~..] OL'Jif,9 aftu . Councilwoman Dimler: Do you want to put a time limit on it? Hayer Chr,',isl: I would like to have it done within no more than a month. don't know what staff's requirements are but that still would give them enough ti,~e. Counci!mc, n 3ohnson: If you're talking a complete analysis of a yet unnamed site, that's impossible. ~,.~yo'¢ Chmiel: True. True, but we have to do-something. Counc[lma~, Johnson: I mean you're delaying it indefinitely is what's going to li,'lppC f,. ;layof' ChmJel: No, I'm not trying to do that. Councilwoman Dimler: I don't want to delay it anymore. I think the task force has done that. Looked at all the options. It's time to make a decision either ~ 01:~~ ' .. ....,:. or ~,_~h~n the next mes[ing ~ think. CoLtnc. i:.;f,a:'~ 3ol':nson: i think we can make it tonight. Mayo;'- Cl',m~c~l: k'ell m? motion's on the floor. If I don't have a second, it dies for lack of a second. Can I have a motion from the floor? Cour, cilm.~n 3ohnson: Uell I'll move that we move this to a referendum then and that exactly what you're asking for is prepared by staff'in the month's time frame. I think that's legitimate by the first meeting of ~ugust. And that the City Council wants to approve any information that's going to be given out to the public on tho aspects of the community center. Cour, ci!woman Dimler: Are you going to make that a unanimous decision? Councilman Johnson;: No. Because I feel if we say that ~e want it to be a ..t]]animoLts decision of the City Council, that that allows one person to blackball the er, tlr'e, ~'d never get any information out so therefore there's no information out so therefore there's no referendum and that would. 25 e.".','.nc.:~;~ '"- '* :actual To m'-' :t sould ~.... ......,l~.:.r, · s~!c.i' _... uou].d assure that it's ali ~ . ,~ ~ .~sc~Lr;-: tJ':c_+ .l+".'; a].l fac. tua~ g;:.~'~:!lF,~,,:', .;:.-,J,l,son' LO..}!}. '"t :::hol.tld b:?.. If it's factual it uill be '~tnanimous. .~' do,'t ........ "hink ct':-~ r, ece~sary f.o say ~+'u unar~.[mou:: Th...~c'',~"-' ~ ~)een' too many . , , , , ..... ;'~ uc,~. :~:u~'e i..~._.ue., that didn't come OLtt dead ~ure iSSL~e8 Ir, can >'o,~ kl';o~, I don't fce! confident enough at th.t..t point, 'aspeci~!!y since ~e -- " ' .... h3 ,.ftC, ~'~-- '" 'hat ~ill be voting on .',t_ ' ~', ..... ; ~.];~" ".: ,} b ; questio,; I:;a;'k F~g'~ ' " ' :;. i~u~ ~1'~o'~ going t(~ be vol. il'~g oR · . ii.L .: · ... ', 'I ."'' ~ , ~-. · ,'"- T 4 i'l':.) .I- ' .. I .r. ,"-, ¢'uLi,l .... l:l~,fJ .~'..,~,'l,C;Or; ..0 .; iii [ ~3k[t,. ;qg k,lu LLTi~I'iJ. lflOLI.~ pai't t~ f. iiaL. I ~ould .,..~-.:: :.:. .L.. .. ..... ; ,~z'i -. ~ i;. '~ not, I would, pgLt il right on there '.-:c - ' ,...,¢,~ , .' ~-,~ e,, · CO .,., ..: ~,.~..,k ~::E~;£.L:,':U ,,; u, -, ..-_.' ~ .. . ! · · ! _ . .. ~-,~ ._: : .'. :.. .L ~'. .t c ;; .. *'" [.:;'.'~-.'.'::: ,2 c',:.'.~-::u~ .... i¥~g opin}or:, .T_ +l:inl., l'[;at can ~..'.' ~: ..i'.r ~*':. ::.: f,',ctLta] "- ' ,r~'r'm&" '~C:'~,;~ _, ~ ~.'-~n:t :~3e ¢OLt)~(.'.Jlr,~ar, 3ohr~:;on: Or somebody doesn'L like tn_: ,~a>' it s ;..reo~.at f::;'.;;,c~l.t:oiI~,-:.-.n nlr, j.e," T;. '.;ol.t.ld !)e ,,aiZ.tl)u!ative, yeah. · ?.OLt]-iC:ll:;,~rl :ohnson: Th::;y uant to manipulate tile slant of iL to uhere it looks. ru.:..f..: L;r:., o:..-.~. Lh.~l,..;. '~tz. tZ:~L:.'cs ~..-. one th.lng but bo>' you sure can play a lot '' ..... ~ ~hink Ccti;':c'.'!l:,a;. ,.]u:kl,,;:r: F.igLt'.,'::.'~ li.o and liars .rigu;,.~., right Don? Jay,., . . .*_ . '1 -1-1 1 . .% L , i :..;.:_. ..... ; .. :.. ::..JO .;:ides, basic :;ides. The "ax imf)acts, finalzc.ial b~vrden *" ',""'r,.5 ....: "-': ~l',,~t t]'l:~ need fei' tf, i~ ~ype of facility ii: tow,';_ '.¢'-~ "11'" . ,,~..' O; ~,:2" ~l,J L~J_I; .... '/a:i .~.'.~hzar, ,:he f.t;.:t~a. rou~d those uith uhst ~he exact ~ake~up of the fac~l~t>, ... ' .... ~c~,oc ...... I',o,; ~[~ucl'~ the tot~,]. I}on~ is ~nd ul~t tl,o~:.~ a~.: shd ;,~c-';"c ~o~; to ::e~ uo~e action. Z th~nk and so Z don't knou. Zf ue ug,, .... t 13"h,. i[~.~ .... '~ng Lh~t ~.;:: t.;il], h~ve, or ar, Prove thio fac~. ~heet, *.n~.~ u~.' S:2~,t:,~b~-~',''-' _.., ?,.:".~,~a'c... ".n~ ~'' ,..~ve~~ " us i0 aee,.-"s ~ybe. ~_~. that enough time? ,~o;: :. _ ., uoul~ ~ay the .~oone; u~ get this dL:;cou;"u~: 9sin9 a~ ~ubL~c, ' '~' ' .... h ' '' b.'_.t..c-r it u: ........ :: u:_~:~u:~c t ~ ~'9ur, ent ]~as been Lt ua~ ~ L,~'i.c bi'e~kin9 t~zng the ,'I;": + k: '' ~' F z~ 17 ~ ~. ~ ~.' ..... ..... . ........ ~:i':~:~t,:.:.u up and ..... Fybody ,,.,...'. :;u:';.'.i":.::.d afl~ ~;o ~hy oi~r;;.~ ice peoplc, giv~ the people *-.hat are i~rumotir, g .~., (~ .... :.u ~.;j.l.~]. '.. i.::"' p~:,c,p~c ,-k;~,,. ,, ..,. do}'l''~.. ~;aflt .~.t ~l}OL%gi]' time to o~ganizc and figu['c. 26 C:c:.l:':ci*.;:~a:~ 2o[.;:.~on .,,.,, ~ ~,h>'' want to approve the referendum tonight so +he people have thc, t extra .~:onth to start getting themsetues organized. Rather than ~.-r ~--'-end +..he *_,.,e. .tying +o. ... ~,ayor Ch~.z~l','~ Well ~,; doesn'+, stop them from getting organized right now si+her ..lay. Counci].~an 3ohnson: Well it gets them organized trying to prevent it from even 9.'-.'..t t ing... C..',LtnC:iluom,}n Blm].~:r' ~' do have a concern about voting for a referendum and then ..-~a'/Ln.; ~o never get that fact sheet agreed upon and it never gets out and then " , "\.' :2 O~ +. . ,.corn ;.~e 1 the objective Scuncilman Johnson: Well see, if it comes down to that, then anybody voting for "'. car: a:;k fc:.r reconsiderat.Son and ~¢ can pul! it off the referendum. Nothing's . . -~. re not c,,.,.,-,,n9 hlg thing into a slab of granite Even a sl~b of g~e, nJ. te can be erased with a jack h~lomer, n~n ~shworth' If 5. t helps any, the Counci'l will have to approve the specific language. That's a resolution. It's prepared by the approvin~ attorney. It c~nnot be prlnted until such tlme as the Count11 acts to act on that resolution ~nd that generally is 4 to ~ weeks in advance of the referendum itself. Councilwoman Dlmler; ~tt[ if ue don't agree on the uordlng and we've voted for a referendum, do we have to put something on? Don A:-;huorth: No. That's what I'm ~ay!ng. If the fact sheet does not come 5~ck or you do not agree with Lt and you change your mind, you would then not Fa:':,~: that ~esolutlon as it would be put onto the agenda in October. ¢ , ns. we re saying tonight, if we say we want a ~,ol, l'~c~lg;ar~ Joh~soT~: So w~ + ' rsferendu~ issue, we're saying ~repare the fact sheets. We're saying prepare the statement th:t's going to go on the ballot question and get, we're starting the ~heels turning. ~ut you c~n al~ys stop the wheels turning at some time. :~a>,..c. Ct,,:~!r~l' Okay, we have a motion on the floor. SOUrlc!lln~l~ Workman: I'll second it. ,,~yo Chmiel: s been seconded. Would you go through it one more time for clarification? Sounciln~an Johnson: Well basically it's approving that we want a referendum on the ballot on the community center issue at the November election. That we'd !1ks a short, conclse fact sheet prepared that has the information that Tom and Pon and Ursula and I have all been talking about this evening. Having it summa~'Jzed, approved by the Slty Courlcil. We want that fact sheet avallab!e to tis by the August 13th meeting. So.:t~.;silman ;~orkman' .A. LtgL~Ot !3th ls the first and then 27th. 27 ~o4;;~J: ].J7,;~l~ .... ..: ,',,ud;~ ''t~ ."C&-_-:Oii ~ ...... l~g '~"" ~' ~ ' ~" "dry:' ~' ~';';O,>/*' Hi~F tax c0!']cci'l'[:; wil~ ~l'~el~ no~ br~ ,able . is ,.lc]'.;,'t:.~;.iy.': ~. g,;,.-,.,' :: ... . , -" , ........ :. . , . .%.l~4D.j . '' . ~ , % · i~-.;'c., ...... ~,.:~,.~.-. · .',c:l: ',:a~',. .. ',.l,a--L, . ,,o uay, That':s i'ight. Could you have it 'r:,ac~,'.. .,,.- '.4.? ':' he '?.3,' u: ~;~,so(~ T o bo 3 weeks we would have ".-~ ,'~ ' u,:.t~con August ~ath and '..,,..'-' < .... toff Z,..n.'- ~, I::; ........ ~ ..'* time,_ bF t I'i~: Lime Hc actu,,~./' ' '" I',ad ~:, ,gL:rr:: t o,ge'thci' ..,~,.~ :;~.s'; ~. ..... .:..,~ ;,.. .... ~ ~:,~.l .[: ;~: ha m].ddl~: o'~ ~ho; ' ' ~ ,, ~ ~ I. :;~a,:i,.~ ~. ;..:'. :.,;:-.' f ..... 5.:~{.llg tn I:ava b~ts:"::'~l. Augu:'31; ]3!:h and ~e nice:tier, wh~cl~ .':c~ ..... ,,..~).!.y + hs '~'l.:"-z.t. T:.t3sd.;,>' '[.ul~o~,.~'~y '.. ho ~ec:)~d Monday .......... ~.;' * hat '~ou "h~y st~t.~ 1' ~'...~ ~ 'l' ~-.' . "['. ........ ~ .... ~ , Se r~mb , Octoba~, ~ .,. k .,.x:.' :...~.,,~',.... ~., ~, '~. c:n bn_ 2r::~:rad b>' the ~u].y ~.,,'~o"d, our .... .... ''" ' ' " - bu' Y~r: ,:o~ sa>-':n.~ .[t au' ';c~L~ "--:~.~"7 I~as Lc bu. b~causa ~ ~ knob; iz: ~; ~ , ' . ;~-. ' ~ J" ' , . ..... ,.. . .. , ,. "'- '- ~'* '~ "u*~ ' · , year end * don~* .... '.. :.- ...... ;:, .;, -,..;, ~ ·"~}- lj 31'i ~...11{~ .~!~1~ .... ~)~ ~ -':'-~,-r- -.~-.- ~z ,~ ~ ' ' i)O~ ~ . ~t I- · , .,. ................. ; ..... :.~,:a ~ ... E~ .. uvz Ji'd b::. Coar, cS].i,~;~l, 'J,,i-" ' '-Jo Id ' ;,,~:,ii, colt hli"a E'ric ~' ,,kiu ........ : .:i[.!,~f ..., :.[".'iii, August 3th ' "'- 'k,,, Wit l: thc. hopes '" '..'] ... '': , '..{)I.i ;'1'.', .,.n .... :I ~]C,'I all1: . , ... o, a ;ougi'; 'raF~ o and a{ July, D,2.',i i,.;-. ,O'f'.. , r'~.. F'ar:-. ::,. Ocioc:-'i", ,'::n_ o[ $oplumbet. ........ ,.., ...... ohnson moved, Council.man Workman seconded to approve ~. referendum vz-t~ -'or th:'; :.'.:,m~.ur.;".ty center on the November ~!ection ballot with direction for ,..c- pi'epa:-e a fact sheet [ct Council apprcvzl by the fiTst meeting in ......... ~' vet. s-' ir: fays:- except Nayor Chmie! who was silent ~nd the motion :arried unanimously. 28 City Counc~l Meeting -- July 9, 1990 COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: Mayor Chmie!: ?Sth Street. Weeds. Brand new flowers going in. Looking deader ~ounci!w~ omar, Oim].e~.: Whato. New flowers? "'yoi- ~hmi~l' ,Ne~ flo~ers $OL[ncilman 3ohnson: New dead flowers? Mayor Chmiel: Tho flo',,;e:' club has put in flowers and nobody's watering them. !Io~ a,-c w.-'.: going to do that? Mother Nature is doing a little bit but. Mayor Chmiel: But Mother Nature hasn't hit them and last Friday they were put !ntke early part, right by the clock tower. Almost dying. Todd S~rha:-dt: Those are ;'ight in the sprinklers. Gary Warren: Yeah, we've had some problems with the sprinkler system with the alt check valves burstlng this week so both systems went down again and we've c:ontactsd the co~tractor ~o come in to repair it so hopefully he will be in soon. I did talk to Shuck Eller our downtown specialist just today and we're, I authorized a ~eek picking crew. We did this last year when things were out of control because of our problems wlth Nobel Nursery and we're going to use our summer gate keepers and he!pets to work some overtime here this week I hope to do a downtown sweep of the weeds and get caught up with thlngs. Ma.y,sr Chmiel: Yeah, that would help. Todd Gerhardt: They don't have anythlng to do with the flowers. The flowers ~:f'e maintained by the club and there are 3 groups withLn the club and that 2~-ouF.'s responsible for maintenance and they dlvled up a tlme table for each individual, Ma>'¢'.- ChaJ. c.]..' -~ut they're not doing the watering. T ,~ ~3:; .... ' n-'" Cerhard+- Th" wa+e~ is behind old Village Hal! We put a sp':got on the .~..~d Vi!lage Hall so you can go over there and use thelr water Councilman Johnson: So they'd have to fill a bucket and carry it eve;- and dump Mayor Chmiel~ Are there any sprinklers there? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Councilman Johnson: Yeah, they're just broken. Don Ashworth: On the Pauly building. 29 ~'lr.~>'~';'C~l;~i.c~' I j!'.:'."~ ~:~inl' '.¢c'".'.-:: t,~lkc-.d'~"' ,. ......... .~,;c,,liifica'io!'~ and .'_:verytl~ir:9 looks ..... l": .... ~'h'"'"'"'' ' ~'' " ' y' ...... ,:" :'" " "'" .... ,.., ....., ..... :3LIT :'.': 'J .". : ;. ,T ;' :3 ~'FOIT; I'he ,..,.~ ~ .... ,., ,..,.nCr::. "' ':;~:';~ ;] :~ ]ia:-: ' :-.. b--. ;.{:',i~:'. -' ' ' : · ~' '" " ~ y ' '~' '" .... . ......... :l~ ;i ; ..... ;Io' ;3il, ;:a."..: ..-L:, bo dora."h~.:.;.: o.'go ~..i.,ia.. '"'1-" !_h;':')U ...... " ..si,.. " ' '~ .... ~1..!~ ,..... . ~,,...., ......... sU, m" ...... p'i"'uri9 L':,.~.; ~',:c. I',':'..':: "h .., ....I II . .. 'r ~ .. . , ge;'>' '.'"rF~',~· A;'c: >'OL~ 'iai' ..... ~ ..... +he:~¢ new flower beda ...... ~,.~.r, 9 about ',~c Ne,..d... i,~ .. I..,b' ..~ .;,.,' iC:, .... ,.2 - M,'xyc:,'F Chi;~::',l Tiaa~ :3 Jl;OF~:. oF 'dJia!. v m +a].',:!.r~9, 2::C::LtSC'. N~ien , pe,.~, the g y i , I - , J j. .I I J ':-.:5. :":i',;,:/ t,.. "..~: k,,~,-i...:,,llfiag:'":: {.,;;-: I',:.~d, i~ aI~, ui,.h tl~e :~.+.Ol'lila~ ti'lOre NOT',9 a ~Ot · I ~ ....... ' I "" . O,; "' >'ou have any :;',for:rlatiorl on 'l',at little · :..,_, ic:~.la,,.,;, ',.Jcr ,,,~.;i'..i :.:::_: ,;"y (;o .. , ,,'.-'.*~,.,....... ~r~,~ t~.u' I-.,:::-'... ~',.i'.' '~. :, ..... ..-.-". :'.~('..... ,h.: dt~,,.,...:_':i, ': . '~.'.'. ,.' ,",'.' .... exr. lain ~,. :+ arid f. h',-'-l' yOLL CC, I~ · "' ' .... ;'JO~L' "' '~ .%flu * don't knoN J r c.h :.:..:-.:'~ '~ '"-'-L ..'-."-' c-~mF')..:.to.r~{$ ave: *ho h-,,. ,. a,;oi .~,1 :. ,- J ~. I. ~ yoL; knot,J t-; h :..: i" ,': r ~ taCk;rag ab-:.'.u:.. Th-': Ch.':yenr;c dp. Joy LOtL.::-.:. Thc; :.'-. ' c: rue. .lus[ ,'i:.'~'~l'~ ~,r , ;" ~'.-' ii. '" 'hey',-,-~ , . .. ,,u..-v~-.' ;'.: ,.~,.~: a:,u ~ ,,. got .-3oa, o va-':'>' dif~J. CLt].t di"aine, go ,,)robie,ns b'Fougf~t to my a';.t.'_'.l~i.',"ol: b7 St.':v:; Bal;loo: and r~::ighbo;-s of his. r'^,'r,.c:!.'~m..:.,s' ~ohn'.,ors' ' ¢ot','~].., ';unnin9 across *!']e. st:'eet '~hef'e like it ~as last y ,5 ,'.t i" ? C. OL,.r,ci]ma';'~ tlo'r-kman: It':.3 ¢'un,-,ing ncroc, c the st.','cct at'~d then N~.'ve 9et th'l.s ::~',1'.,'~"' ' hat .it'~:, "Ioi. ~f thc' Nato? from the Nest i$ directed into this "~' ~ *h.~. ' hat h ,he ',"o;,d bltt ....... '"', ........ o go und~ t ,ho~.,~T-,g ,.-..er,;.; ,. . ag ,.~' :~ c,tl~.,~;-t drain or, it * t,~l'~::',t ;.t co,":: ur, de:" '...ha.'. r.::,'-t.,a. '.'.l,or,~'~' ,t plus .'.'.it it_Okciy, irl f.".'.ga'ccJc to Kilt"Vat"s, -4 , tl i . j. ..- ......... c .'~..-...ua-t.~.'''.., thc'l, ..{u'"'...~ fills ttp ~..;] zhe{,'_ fr'ont }..'ear, 9oe:.~ acyo-oa~ ~he street .:.r:d o:..'r-., t~'",,, v~a',.! al,..~ ';l;t-.., ;'l,::.;.. , ya',,'d and .i.~,. fil!a-: up tl'f'.: yard and 'J'ic-'~ , .. _ {''.. an ,'_'.. ~i :'; ,2 .':lr-; g !. !.,kt~ .'.[':~ [~c}. !c. 5k;';~ '-;,:::';' i'..oSitZvc. 3O C~ty Council Mectln~ -- Jul>' 9 1,9~ Colinc£!man ~orkman: Uith a clean out and. ..ot,,,~.il;~:ar: 3c, hnson: A cl~.n on the plug? Oary Yarrcn' T,hs're's a plug there. Cour~c:ilm,.~n Workman' But it's creating some problems and then the water all from TU " ,,, ~01 ditch iD coming down ~nd over and everything else and there's another c:ulvort problem up on top. I met out there with Dave Hempel and Jerry Schlenk at 7~0o a.m. !asr Tuesday morning and it seems like the whole neighborhood came fro;~ out of no~l'~oro and ~o were talking about some things and I'd like to commend Dave and Jerry for coming out a little early and the gnats were bad and Ioc. kin.~ at what looked like a situation that really needs to be corrected. We had anticipated ta!king 1ast Thursday. ! don't know if Dave has got some more .;.n.~xc.~ ..': z, bcL;t whets wc'rs going tc go or if you do. I got a call tonight from one of thom asking if we had those answers. I did indicate ~o them that I would mention it to tho Council sc that they're ali aware of it. In addition to accidents when they're going north on TH 101, turning into Cheyenne. Nowhere ~: .~af;~c to go arounc. They think they can get around the right side but they end up bumping from the rear. Okay. Councilwoman Dimler: That was a problem over a year ago already. Sar/ Warren' It's been aggrevated partly by the fact that those homes were bu~.It o~' th~ north side of Cheyenne. Prior to this point the water had drained ~crc'-s.s thz. 'road into the wetland area there and basically wasn't a blg problem. It ~,*.s still something we wanted to resolve. I was out looking at it with Dave be~use I was on vacation last week and basically what part of the solution that ~¢'re trying to iniplement right now, and this would be a perfect example of :~n.-s.r.. a storm water utility district could come ;n handy, is to construct a c'.:'vr.r.' '' f.l';~t would t,.,t,.",.' ca,'~,~ o~, the ~H,, lOl drainage and pipe it to +he, north to g~t ":. !nrc the wetland without letting it fall down into this lowland area. W,2'ra appl,,~¢., ~,,~ for a permi'. ,. right now to get that done and we'll have to work out whore we're going to get the cost covered for that element. The other part 0~r "* ' ~';C. · : .,..,..ts t culvert as Tom mentioned that has a plug in it The drainage basin, the pending network that was part of the Kurver's Point design, we're at t~,'= point try:r..; to confirm that it did include the drainageway from the Cheyenne Road area and if lndeed it does, then the plug in the culvert that's pl.::gged and everything else, that's on city right-of-way and would be our jLtdgmc-nt that that should be opened up and let the drainage from the road go to the south there and basically alleviate the big part of the problem. So we're · sorklng on it right now. It's been a long standlng issue and we're trying to ra.~;olve !t ,ss soon as we can but some of these things may take some time too. ¢n-'.tncl].man Johnson.' Did the drainage go to the south prior to Kurver's S.'cild!ng? Did it drain to there prior? Gary t~arrcn' Z don't !:no~ how far back that plug goes 3ay. I mesn as far as t im,x~,..~,~ . $ounci].mar, Johnson: So that could have been. C;~ry Wnrron' I don't want to even, between 81oomberg and Kurver's there's an issue, property ownership lssue there and dralnage issue that led to the 31 ~..-: :.';..-..~ ~ ","~,'.~, ' "~" >'.-.-~ ,..:,.,.¢,. call me tomo=;-o,,,. . . , and +l}e,',.. .. I can got back + o ..'. hos~..~,,-,cF:~. ~ ,..~! * ~ '~ { + h~-: J.. ,ails a':: .. ;,i'r ~ . .. : .... ; :;0~,- ,'). , , ~4 + hey arlXl'.OLt::;!y 2, Wfl.~ t ~ .'lC c.,..:~ y ',---',n .nav.,_- ,.I, .... l~:; a~ I we:--.~: o~ us ou tod~y rooking ~f it ..,c ,'%..,,. , --- ; · ~ ...,. .. .. . n.~v~ u:~, giv.'_-you a 31,,0~, and ~il]. you i'.,', _ .i. ~. . -r :!:,:.). ^ qLt:¢:!.: Fub].2¢: -~h~ouhr;.-':IP, ellt it¢,:l and tkC .;.~-.fo~n,-,{t~c.,. fo:-,.:it ,..~ ....... , , .... ["].~'.,~iY~¢2, ::.:; a. ;':.c(r t ;;f ~hi:; storm. 9Ltt them in you;- Front yard. Thc u jiF ,.. .:: [.: ,. ,,.. . . from c].tizens or potentlaZly is Dave, !'[ it could g,:~t Zflto, Chris ~. .t;ltC ill~3 ilOW:Sp')~I .-, · Councilman Johnson' .Wher, are ~,~ going 'to p,,'.ck 'it up? Why don't we put it on ~ ~ . I_ ~ I, h , , ~ ~ ~ ~ { .' ~ . aLit Thu~-:~day, ~,,:, ,*.. h'4.:-r!.h' !..Jc-'r.:_' :.'~'y'[ng to get it done this week but I don'~ T would gu,...,... :4:.' t',;'Dt.tl.;,'! .gO il'it(." th.i..) I'ie'.'.:~': ~'.-.'.c,k if th,~.t':~ nac:;ssary. TI,,,,.: m~il: Lhing ia pul. it :'-.nt b~.i,;d],~:::~' hat '.,.he s;-e~:-~ c:an piti-- up ...,'ri:.. ,.. ' ,~$:':- '~ ~'.,': ,* L, '"'. .. .. a~.. 1.1~..'-'.~ point . ) Don ¢,;l'~wo?'th :sLated that Hayu]' Chmiel and ! ~ -. I. , , ¢. I ., ~J_:.;'::';;:* ~ ;~.~d br:u:[~ '..,or'king :d!th hb[:.y gor[garcl a.lCJ would] be get'~ng information to -. ~;c; ~' .. ,. '.-~c..~!.'.:.an move-J, Ccu:-..c'.'lman 3ohnson seconded to adjourn the meeting. favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 9:35