1990 06 25CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR HEETING
JUNE 25, 1990
dayoF ch)~J.e~ cailed the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. The meeting was opened
b).i. th the Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCIL HEHBERS PRESENT: Hayer Chmiel, Counciiman Workman and Councilman
COUNCIL HEHBERS ABSENT: Counciiman Boyt and Counciluoman DimIer
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knutson, Paul Krauss, Gary Warren, Jim
Chaff(,e, Jean Heuu[ssen and Tom Chaffee
APPROVAl. OF AGENDA: Councilman Johnson moved, Counciiman Workman seconded to
appFou~ the agenda as presented. Al1 voted in favor and the motion carried.
~oger Kn~tson' To po~.nt out something to you. Several zoning ordinance on your
agenda tonight and you need a four-fifths vote and I don't see fOUr council
members. It wouId have to be tabled.
CONSENT AGENDA: Counciiman Johnson moved, Counciiman Workman seconded to
Approve the foilouing Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Hanager's
recommendations:
Approva~ of Fi)-euorks Display Permit, Hinneuashta Homeouners Association,
R~lph Flagman.
d. Approval of One Day Beer License for Chanhassen Rotary, July 4, 1~90.
Resolution ~l~0-~6: Approve Supplemental Agreement No. 3 for Trunk Highuay
212 FZ~ .]o).nt Powers Agreement, HnDot.
j. Approve Water Service to 23115 Summit AvenQe in City of Shoreuood Larry
SchmJdt.
k. Approve Plans and Specifications for 19~0 Sealcoating Project No. 90-11;
Authorize Advertising for Bids.
1. AppFove NSP Haintenance Contract for City Ouned Street Lights.
m. Approve Revj. sed Plans and Specifications for Utility Telemtry System,
Authorize Advertising for Bids~ Project No. 90-2.
n. Appl-oval of Accounts.
o. Cj. ty Council Hinutes dated June 4, 1990
City Council HJnutes dated June 11, 1990
Planning Commission Hinutes dated June 6, 1990
m. ,qppFoval of Development Corltract for Burdick Second Addition.
?i;.v Ca~l~c';Z I-i.~:nting - Jt~l~e 25, .1.990
;', f~l~'pi'nv,~' Ptan.?. ~tr, d Specifications and authorization to advertise for Bids for
l.'..c:rt~¢'r' P, lvd. str~.~.t I.~9ht.i.r,9 Extensio~l from 500 feet $ou[h of Saddlebrook
E.~.;r'v::. t.o 200 fae'~, k'orth o'[ R~9 Itorn Brive.
Al! voted in favor and the motion carried.
f:onsn'n~. ,qgen,'la itr.:ms (a), Zon.ing Ordinance amendment to Amend article IT.,
$¢-:¢:fions 20-56 thro~tgli ?0-.-70, Pertaining to Procedures for the Zssuance of
ga'~':;ar~ces, F.[na]. Reading and (b), Zoning Ordi}lance amendment to Amend Section
20--92 Rogii-di. ng cert.i_fZcates of Occupancy by addlng Provisions for Landscaping
2¢.'.qu','.remen'~.s, Fihal Reading were tabled until there is a four-fifths majority
[,~'~:~;.'.-;r~t on tl~e Counc:Zt.
PARK FEES, COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAl..
May,:,i Chmi::.lt t'p,.'.:n r-euJei,.~ing what has been proposed, Z see some problems in
t lli:': arid ]"d like to "' , .
.... e¢ this sent back to the Park Commission Don, would you
]..~. k,': (o?
.non ~,r~i,worth: Yes. The City Council did act to amend the fee schedule for
COmll]~l'c~.-~/f. fldlt~;fr.f,-q.], property, actuaJ, ly the act. ion being considered was for
;-e:~.ideniial propert~.es and the fee schedule that was established I think
,-:.ddi'e.'-.~sed conce'cn.~ c.f where you had escalating uaZues in the residential areas.
',louevei-, that same. schedtt].¢ was then applied to commercial/industrial. ~n
[o,.~ktng ~I. some. rer.:ent applications, that fee schedule produces a fee which
~Oi,;tl].y r, xorbinaLe. ~t's '[he position of the City Attorney and myself that that
.roe. :.~c-'hredLt.i~. vas adopted, or let's say the application of that over to
co¢,tm.ni-c~a.~ and .{.ndttstrial WaS an erroneous type of an app].ication and should not
h,xvr.: o(:c..'tlTrcd. Tn other words, .[t was more of an adminstrative error, staff is
,':.~'.':ommending that the City Council re-establish the previous $1,200.00 per acre
,:':i~.~,--,~e and shnLt.td t l~e Counc.f.]. wish to further study the charg.[ng system for
,"..':)mmerr;Jal/J. ndustria] to potential.ly send that back to the Park and Recreation
C~mmJ. ssJ. on fo'~ F~,-thor review. Given the number of applications we do have
~hOLtgh, '[ would a:-'.k 'thdt '[he Council re-establish that $1,200.00 charge at this
po;n~, in time.
r:o~nr.~.].m,~n .Sohnson: We would be going back to what we had before we made the
of her' amen~Iment r [9ht~
non ~:-:hworti~; That'.~ correct.
¢::;u~,'_:;].man 3ohnson: ~nd then we can have Park and Rec review it in the interim
,tnd .<-;ce .i.f :;.( nc, ods to be .(ncreased, decreased or anything else. ~hat were your
~;()fiCeT¥1:.] OOfl?
Mayor Chmiel: WeJi basica].ly there's a wide variation in some of the things
th~..'t T had seen in here, the fee for PHT pr.~or to the amendment vas
appi'o'..<Jmat~,ly $3,600.00. ~:Lth the fee after amendment being $16,200.00. If
thc:t '~..~: would i'~,'..'.k.'e stayed f.n effect, the park charge for that new retail center
w.o~.l.~J I.-,.n roughly $235,000.00.
c:~u.,',c:.l, lm,~l~ ..lohnson'. R.[sht, and we're backing J.t off to what it was.
City Council Meet£ng - June 25, 1990
~l,..-,yor Chmie].: Yeah but I think that what's here might be just a little heavy in
comp,~rison u~th other cit£es in and adjacent to Chanhassen. I think we should
just. 'Lake a look at this to make sure this is exactly the way we want to go.
Counc'l]man .lohnson: I mean we've been doing this for years though as far as...
M.~yo'r Chmiel: Right.
Councilman 3ohnson: You're saying that even if ue back off to the ~0~ or
~I,200.oo per acre, that you th£nk that's too high? The old one's too h~gh.
Mayor Chm~el: No. Well the $~,200.00 is right in the ballpark as far as I'm
concerned.
Counc~lmar, Johnson: That's what this does.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, right. But some of these fees as we're going into the
comme~c£al and industrial areas, as Don had mentioned.
Cour, ci]man 3ohnson: But this fixes that doesn't it?
Don ~:.~hwo'rth- ~lel~, what it does it re-establishes the $1,200.00 charge and
then if you would l~ke to have ~t sent back to the Park Commission, you should
make that as a part of your motion.
Councf]m,.~n Johnson: ~n which case PMT will now be at $3,~00.00 r~ght?
Mayor ChmJ. el: Yeah.
r. ounc~]man Johnson: So we're taking PMT back to $3,600.00 instead of
$16,000.00.
Don Ashworth: And McDonald's would move to about $1,500.00.
Council. man 3ohnson: Versus?
Don Ashuort h: $21,000.00.
Councilman 3ohnson: Versus $21,000.00 and that's what we want to do.
M,zyor Chmiel: Yes.
C.o~mncllman Johnson: So I think we have to pass thls now and if we want Park and
Rec to review it nlOre, let's ask them to.
Mayor Chmlel: Okay, so moue that motion. Is there a second?
Co~ncilman Workman: Can you repeat the motion?
Councilman Johnson: Move approval wlth referral to the Park and Recreation
~o,.~:'d for further review.
Councilman Workman: Second.
~esolut~on ~90-67: Councilman 5ohnson moved, Counciiman Workman seconded to
approve re-establishing the $1,200.00 per acre park charge for commerciaI/
~T,dnstria! properties and to refer the matter to the Park and Recreation
Commission for further revieu. Ail voted in favor and the motion carried.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
H,:tyoi .r. hmi. a].; Eric. T. don't know if this is going to be on what wa had
~l.i.3otl.~a~ed in oui-' telephone conversation. I don't know if you 9or my call or
,rl;'iu aJ. vkin: I 9or it. I couldn't...
Chihi.=_l.' T th~l',k what we've do~e i~ we have gotten some comments back by
Tt'.~ been in our hdmin packet. I think what Councii may ~ant 'to do i8
~'c. view their-' packet fro,, what staff has [ndicated and come Up with our own
,':o~c. lusi. o,~s< an,i the'refore I ~t,ink that if you have anything in addition to add
you'va had before, I'd appreciate hearing that no~.
,~ ;".'. ..-: Ri,.,l..i,,' Oka>'~ yeah. This is in add.i, lion to ].t. I want to say that I
app~-~c.i.~.t,~ the r~t. arf for spending that kind of time on this. It's just that I
.~t:';i. ~-ea].]>, fer~. pa~aionate about saving our wetlands and I really appreciate
t,~l',¢.i t;.me has been devoted to this. ~ want to separate in studying ~hat the
:,~l~.~.~,,,;:c ar,~ ].J. ke or, the lots that border Lake Lucy. It may be aware of
pos~i, ble i. mplovc~ment:, that might be done to the wetland ordinance and that's
ul'~a1 ~ ual~t 'lo pi"opo:xe here. It doesn't have anything to do with any individual
I~,~::: ~..i. all. Tt',.~ J. ntent of tt,e ordinance is to protect wetlands reliably
,{a';;-'~'m;f,cd by tef'hnica], information, soil data, topographical surveys and
~,c(;~.,.~',~le uetl_,'tn(I m,~p~ and definition of wetlands. The ordinance cr~rrent].y uses
,~,'rJi~ai'y I~J. gh (,~,.tteY a.lek, atio~ to determine setbacks from those wetland,; but also
'i:i~.0 c:;ty a:;: ti~eF s~id .in their response, that these wetlands, the City couJ.d go
,¢'-oyo:~d,.. ti~e oi-dinary high water ~n cases to determine the edge of a wetland. Can
ibc; ord.[hunch 'ce J. mpr'oued? Well, maybe it doesn't bu.t maybe ~e have enotigh
~',~-'of,:,::t.io~,, but T'd ].l.k~ to voice some concerns about it. It's common].y known
amol,.:~ ~ql:~,c:.falj~sl.¢: ~r~ hyclrolosy and boilogy that ordinary high ~atel- or 100 year
'f]o~d elevat.ion:~; don't always define the physical edge of a wetland. Not even
ihe <~Jvision bett.~aen ,~ class & or a Class B wetland since fringe wetlands
fr~¢q~ta]l't].y exist above these elevations. For example, if you study the 1989
ae, i,~]. topo c,f Lake I. ucy aro~ind much of the shoreline, you'll see a large
,-',ifferenca o~ the north, around the island and the west and part of the
so~Ll~wa,t shore:~. The ,:tifferance between the or'dinarF high water elevation, 956
,.~J i. he edge of the wetland vegetation and wet soil areas is approximately ~ to
;> f~:at higher on the c:ontottr b~it those contours, some of those go up into what
f.!~ey ,.;l,'~::e.tfy a:: C.],:.tss ~ wetland which is reed canary grass. Even if margin of
,',i'Y,,; <,~ (l:(?~c:oLtl~l: ct f. ha ti'ua contours, if you study the soil vegetation and
~izt~.,.~'..t]. di'd~.n~19a .~¢1 tl~ese areas j.t ~ould sho~ their vi. tel and integral part. of
flirt ...:qti.l-r ',4et.].,t~id acc, system. They could have, since wetlands exist above the
c:f :.~.:';ar7 hi. oi~ '' ';'
~ .... ~r and the ~00 year flood, an alteration can be permitted to
:~r.;.. ,:CF t i~es;4¢ wet]ands areas. They cott].d be anywhere in any one of our lakes.
'[he c, rcl.i~a~c=~ a>; it stands now, it's tough. I admit that but it is somewhat
f!r::<i',',l,.-: ,]nd ,'.~.L [he (J:fsc:FctJon oF the Council who happens to be here. Pi. arming
Oapai"tmeni i~appens to be here and surveyors who happen to I}ave different
,/;,,)inJo~:'::; .~[,ottl. ~l'~ero tl~e mall. and is or isn't. If alteration is to be permitted,
~.i~-: ~rdJnance could possibly allo~ a major negative impact which would set a bad
c. fty Co]~nc.[1 Meeting - June 25, 1990
prec..edent. Setbacks may be too close leavlng portlons unprotected by the intent
of ~.he ordinance. I guess there needs to be, in my view, I guess a more
sen:sitlve, ,~ore clear definition. A definition of a wetland first of all should
be in tile ordinance and I suggested the cowarden system. It's very simple. At
ln~t~t periodically the land supports predominantly hydrophites. Substrates
predo,linately...hydric so~l and the substrate is non-soil and saturated with
~atnr.. covered wlth shallow water sometlme during the growlng season. The City
ha~ classified varying degrees of those 3 things between a Class A and a Class B
and ~'m ~ust asking for maybe 1t needs to be looked at as further clarification.
The reason for that is that these fringe wetlands I feel deserve the same
p,'otectlon as a Class A in some cases. The DNR and the U.S. Fish and Wildllfe
Service told me, who both have vislted the site. Have vislted both Lake Lucy
and looked at the wetlands. That the extension of the same Class A wetland is
ti~: same wetla~d basln and above the 100 year elevation. If it enha6ces the
wetland's value as determined by your ordinance, I feel that they should be
l.,rotected. Deserve the same kind of protection. So what posslbly could we do
about it? Well, have the definition of a wetlands. Maybe have a 11mit set for
s~ze. I don't know how tough it is right now as far as size but I'm suggesting
that as iow as I acre on rural residential and other klnd of properties and as
l~l ms ? ]?? acres on farms qualify for full protection under the ordinance.
also submit that the setbacks be further I guess clarified and I'm just
S~.lgg~>;tir, g this. This idea Js off the top of my head here because of the data
that I found. That let's say for lnstance for septic setbacks. It says 150
feet fro,i the ordinary high water elevation or if we expanded that to include
not only the ordlnary hlgh water elevation but 100 year flood or the physical
~et]and boundary, whichever ls higher in elevation. Taking into consideration
your classifications and setbacks for structures and ground floor elevations,
y,',~.~ c:ould add the same kind of wording. I feel it still would be the
i-esponslb~].lty of the developer to provlde a reliable survey and technical
i~formation to help the City determine the exact wetland boundary. So what kind
of beneflSs do you recelve from thls? Well, my feellng is that it wlll protect
a].]. lr~e wetlands. What ls deemed a wetland up to their physical boundaries and
protect the watersheds the wetlands feed into wlth more sensitive clarification.
Tt ,~].1 provlde a clear defintlon of wetlands in Section 20-405 and help
in,~olved regardless of who it ls and when it ls, make a reliable determination
of wetland boundaries. It will provide a basls for accurate mapping of physical
w~$land bo~ndarles which you're doing now, or want to do. I really support that
and ~t wo~ld match closer to existing public maps. Verifiable features such as
.~oil ~nd vegetation would lead to accurate records wlth that regard. I thlnk it
~,o~ld be more commonly acceptable to related agenc£es. I think it would be also
readil.y understood and used by those lnvolved in wetland protection situations.
Thank you very much.
.Mayor Chmiel: Thank you Eric. Do you have anything to say Paul?
P,~u! Kr~.~s: Not a whole lot Mr. Mayor. I guess some of the things that Eric
is p~int.~r,g out are true. Our wetlands ordinance Z thlnk I discussed with you
on n~merous occasions is in need of updating. It was a very creative effort but
t i',~. ~;chno]ogy has somew-hat passed it by and adminstratlvely ours ls tough to
n~hnin.[ster. Er$c pointed out the OHW symbolism and I think you're aware that we
protect now above the OH~ and that's the issue that we had on Pfankuch and Frost
'..,~!,er~. the DNR stops at that line and we went uphill from there and wanted to
p;-esnrvn that. There's a lot of new techniques that we'd like to use. We do
,~n~ to establish an officlal map of wetlands so that developers and homeowners,
,¢'-' I.y., .... <:r,,~l;c',.'] ',1~.'¢_'.i iT',g "Jttna 2.5, 1990
af,y 'i,l't.,.:rc.::~le.d p,-~f[y can como i.n and responsibly take a ].ook and know what
"I::".,..'~;.:..:!'..~].'i,;o ~.~.*.1-,. we've outlined a lot of ideas fei' valuing wetlands as to
:!',.~ ,Ja].~: ~'[ hai~.ttat so that you don't basically have a knee jerk response a
w*t]~n~: ~:', ~u~o,r, atJ. c:,]ly good. There's different kinds of wetlands that have
,'~rf¢,'¢~,l u,~].ae. ~r. Borg is here tonight. Z think the HcBonald's case is one
:~:;-.! -,.:.~r,i'..-.. ~,,,t ~h,',t no~ ~]3. wet].ai~ds are all that great. That maybe that
wot.].~,~l ti,at we pi"aserved on h.is property could have bet[er been preserved ~ome
::.jr..:'-~.: si.:::: .in :.;..~iTm~; ,more important area. In any case, it's difficult to make
',.],es~ ch,¢rmOes ~, ,t ~;i.c.c:t~mc, a] fashion. We think that a coordinated approach
:l"*'~ly,...., · ,..~.[~h.. Lh,e storm w~tr:r program and %he ~&ter qt~ality effort is going to
y~ild tkmr; besl ;'er:~tt]ts roi' the City in protecting the environment and that's
L'.¢.m'. o',(r ,-~c:ommcr, dation for' quite some time.
?i;.,yo;' Chmi,'-'.l~ Th,:.~nk yOIl.
J:,'~,t~C't.l,n~n gorkman: Paul, ~f I could turn this around a minute and look at
!,ayb~: th~. specific sil:uation Eric is looking at I think. Whether it's a
~,~t ~,',,~l~**., lo or no'l. ,.~ I~ui].dable lot and the planning department has said that
t',"~:~.t 7 acre, approximately 7 acre parcel is a bu~ldable lot. I don't know of
~?'b,...(ty l h,','t'~; tough;::~ u'n wetlands than 5o ~nn and she wouldn't say that unless
·:'hara ~.~c,.~(¢ good [~tent b~,.( T'm trying to figure out ~f you were here when we
(:~.iVf: ~]'~¢: V/tf'~,If~C~ Ofl Kings Road near St. ~oe. Do you remember that? It sloped
.', ~,~,c, th:',y ~er;-, ~otn3 t.o I',ave a deck and that, remember that? It appeared
'tl-,¢:y :.~,~r¢: doi.~,g to be getting real near a ~etland but ~e sa~d, but the argument
,::,,i,r; ~tp tl',at w(~.ll :;t's a lot of record and they have to have, remember th.f.s?
~,'~!'.] :.,/.';',~Lt:-2:-;- iq,..~ t,ut )l know where tho house i~ and I know the argument.
,.q~,.,.r,,:.'::lm,'.,r. ~-~orki, an' And ti,ay had to have the opportunity because wa initially
.::.,.'.:;,". i',o. Yo~t cal'i:t bui].d. But they had eveyy right [o do so and so real.ly it
wa.'-; ~ va., J,.'~r~c:c~. '.'.:J. tu. at.'[on where then wa just went back ar, d said, okay. ~e kept
en ay,- and kc. ap .i.t as far back as you can. Is this lot even more buildable? I
:~:-:,.'~r, co,,].,.fi we ev~, by ta~ t.e]], the owners of this property ti'let hey, you can't
',-.,,..,'l:.l c.,1 ,ti,i'- thing. It's now ~ swamp and yot.t might a::: well take down the for
:-~;:.] r~ ::~l-,$rlgJ. e.?
:',.t~.l Kr;-.~t::::-:: No. T.'ve walked around on this parcel and depending on where you
~.-.~'.,.~.-.-'.urc 'Ti., you'r:~ ].ooking a~ a lot that's 150 to 200 feet of high ground. In
~:o,~,~ place:.'-: e,;6.1~ wider than tibet. There's no setback problem for a house there.
T",.:'-.' orl]y :-.:::::!.hack c:ol,sj~.Icr,tion is wi,ere yeti put yo~ir drainfields so that it
'..c.r....:,1'..~.,s wil. h tile J50 foot setback and you can't .ius~ plop down a standard
(',:a'infie]d col~r.f, guratiorl and have it work on that lot. You do have to i.tse some
"..':¢: l..':..i. 5o;'~,':r_-. and design it. specifi, cally for .it but I've walked the property, l
w,kl. ked ii. with two ,~embar:.~ of our engineering staff. With ~o Ann and .1o Ann
.....".: back ,:,u~. th~.~r¢ with Fish and Wildlife folks. It's a real pretty lot.
T!,,r:re'::~ pie:tit>, of high ground. ~t's not one oF the, there is really no question
,-,f iL'~; utility.
Co:iJ~ui],]al~ ~Jo'rkman: But isn't that sort of, that would be the bare bones and
',,,,;..:;c l~,'unt of wh;.,t aric':s getting at. That he's basically ,slaiming that that
.'.:',':' thee 7 acres shouldn't and couldn't sustaln a home. Then I ask tile Clty
:",.~.t,-.:'rr..,"'.';.', can w-'.: ]eOaJ. ly telt those people that they can't bulld on that lot.?
.,,=.,-,i~ i.f we can't, tl~en thr~ ai-gumen'L is 'r'eally a variance situation anyway.
{:("~'..'-al'i1.5,'.-l]~'~'. DO yOLt know which lot we're talking about?
"{tx Count]! !",c~eting - June 25, 1990
Ceuncilm,-~n Johnsonz Ts it a lot of record before the wetland?
:~.,.')~.~ncil. lr,~n ~oi-kman: You maybe don't know which lot we're talking about.
Roe,?',' Kn:itson.'. I can talk about it in general. If you look at the criteria for
v~,;"l, ar:oc, someone has a lot of record, it's not a self created hardship, if
can't do anythlng else with it, that's one of the grounds for grantlng a
v,~r.i~nce. It'd be a very good piece for a variance.
Counc. ilman Workman: So really in this specific situation, we might have a
s..:t:.;.l:a.:.ion th,~t we, in a general citywide sense, everything that Eric says, you
knr..-~' :.-.',-lc has a lot of good ideas about protecting the wetlands. There's no
,.~,.',~h[ ;:theist it. ~ just know that he's really concerned about a specific lot and
if he may noi be. in here if he knows that we don't have, you know those people
?,~',.v~ tt~,~ ability to bulld on it anyway. I mean we're all concerned with what's
· .-:l. oses't to o~)' homes and Eric's no different but you know, ! guess I'm trying to
'..::k..q the s, hortcut around thi~ maybe. I just made it long.
Mayor ¢.hmiel'. You certainly did but that's alright. Okay, appreciate it.
Com~ncilman Johnson: The only thing I see is, I have the minimum setback of 75
f..:,.'.i, from the ordinary high water. I didn't even realize, I always thought that
-'t wzs 7.5 feet from the edge of the wetland. It definitely is the ordlnary hlgh
m.~rk and so that sounds like you can build a house in a Class B wetland because
?ou don't have an ordinary hlgh water mark ina Class B wetland. But you can't
~'.~ all the digging and filling required.
PJul Kra~:ss: Well I think that sort of points out, I mean there are many
i.',~<:l.~.~of~ fn this ordinance in terms of how you administer it. I mean you
r=an't build in the wetland proper so there are other language in the ordinance
th~ s~ys you can't do the thing that you just posed.
~o~ncilman Johnson: But you could build half a foot from the edge of the
~,~!]~nd a~ long as you're 75 feet from the ordinary high water mark.
~,ilil ;(taus:s: Beyond the OHW. That's true but that's really not, I mean most of
!he wet]~nd~ in town are fairly well deflned. The problem is we don't have any
· ~ch.~n~sm right now telling a property owner where exactly that is. Our
.u~di~lanCe basically says we know a wetland when we see lt. Which means that Jo
Ann ~gho's very good at it, goes down with somebody from the DNR, from Fish and
~ild]ife and they pop some stakes in. That's not as scientific as I would like
it and lt's not as well documented as we should have.
:l~3);,Fl~'.!]ffla[I Johnson: But we may never document every wetland in the city because
it wol~ld be almost impossible to do out on some of these large acreages so we
h,~',,:~ to k~ep a little flexibility in the ordinance but I think we're going to be
looklng a~ thls in the very near future anyway.
i.i-:y:~,- £hl~:iel: Right, we are. Okay, if nothing else on that particular subject,
's t~,ere army other visitor presentations?
name is Rick Yeager I live at 1830 Pheasant Drive in Pheasant
have an observation, a question and then a request. First the
"' Cc~n(;'~~ M ':~Jr, g
C.i. ~ ,. .. o .
I &l'le 25, .1.990
..-::.:..':'v.',i [,)il ;~1'1~'1 T didn't prnpai"e, a. tlythirlg feI'molly .so if I stumble through this,
· :tn/ ,.,~t',-, m;~: oi: it',is one, TI,o abservatlorm ;.s ~ vas absol, utely stunned at how
· ::;'; ''":'.~,~':' C.i{.
.... · ,; y o¢ Chnnha~sen responded to a small child gettirmg hit by a car
I .
' ' ' ;.sl~o~-'~,')o~.~ The next day stop skgi~s were up at thak intersection and
i. i , L .
· ;~.': ~.~-: .',.,~:sol~;1e~y te'ri"~.f~c ~nd ~ comi, end anyone thst u~s ~nuo~ued ~n that
:'.-:r:':.;;n:. ~,~.-,1::i~:9 ~bn,.'.~ ~ mon[hf~ ago, ~'ue Z~ved ~l'l Pheasant IIJ.].~ nov for 3
>'.-'z,'" ~, ~:n":'.,.,~ Fhe,. Oep,':Y~l~ent of Pub~.~c 5afut. y and nov 7'n' g.~tt~ng~ ~nto my
,.:-.~e.-' :;~.Y: ~:~ ...:~.r,d j,oZr, ted out that ua do have tr'~¢[~c issues Jn that
:; j ~ ~. .. ~'~ ,
' .,',,-:~,: ,.i',,Zc, J:; o~u~:~se~y why u~'re there ~nd ~t'a not so much a questZon aC
,;~..].; .... :'¢ L',~'i j.l.~.. ~ ~l~te~',~Joll o'[ ~p~d al~¢l contro~ for the c~Y~ com.ing through~
-::. L' ~ ~..: } I ,.
..... ,:~l, ',.:' ~[.:.j. llg "he neighborhood ~:; a tl~roughu~y over to Pavers
,:~:.~:" .-'-;','.~ ,':;~Id ,~nytl~Jng ba done ~nd the ~ty vas very responsive J.n tarns of
zn9.~ out on the road fo measure how many care come
. . I --
· ,,.....~_ -.,~ .; '.':,~.;d pYJ~nari~y uhat ~ would like ~s stop s~gns t.o slow the traffic
~.,: ,.- ~ ¢ ,. ~. z
....... ...:.' ,I';~ , r::peed bumps. Something as people enter the neigl~borhood.
',' ~ 1 -_.
,.~no'? h..~i.. ;~. ~.~ast oiou Do~n, Children Playing signs. Something ~ke that
..::.~".,:'.'...~.: ,"u.r~,;,~', on ,.ti]. 3 counts. Stop signs because they're used for traffic
;'~ .~.,. ;,;.,' [or ,-~::,e:.:-d c:or, t'roI~ ~ uae told that the bumps are J. neffect.i, ve and I
t.,a~', t~,] ', I.!~,~' '(l',~.,. :~-:j. gne .~,~ying cf, ildren Play.lng on~y encourage k~de to pJ_,~y ~n
',hr~ stY~.~et, f,o basJ. ca.l.l.y nothing uae done. My question is this, J.f stop signs
..~ : ....'~;~'-,..,~:e..: fo~' tr,~ffJc control, why did we have to have an accident happen
,, ,-",' C:i;q,.'-- l'h,.-.?..,.~ a q!te~.st, io~ that n, aybe I can pose to our' Public Safety
..., ;,' ..'.
"~,.':, ('h;:'..'r'r,::'.:.. 'i .Tn Lu',~ will pass J.t to our Popartnent of Public Horks D.trector.
'% -i. · . . '~ ',t .-~
,.,.~ ~."h'~.¢~rtl','t~e:] I~¢b,:. J.f Z can ju,~p in. Z vas a pa~'t of the dec~sior~. One
..¢~.~.' '::::-~tc:s, and Cc, uno1.] ~ay recall th~s. He pYev~olJo~y had the ~tems as
.,I
:,(,:':_'..: .~,.,J.l',:j h:tck to ~taff ~nd then those recommendations b~ck to CLt. y Cour, c~.
..,:." ..':,L~-~.:cd,~d ;~'~ th,;t pYoce~:- b,~.~.ca~y- eL~J. nat.~ng what h~d been a pubJ~c
.:. "';.,' oi' t i" ,;,. '[ f ; (..: ':,'~[ety commZttee ~rld r'eplocod that wj.t.h putt~llg ~tems such as
'";,i .-: '~'.,.:..~."' oMei' to Ottl' P~lslj. c Safety Committee. I think what you saw here vas a
-.:.'.-;~:" ~,:,,....,~- -- '~.,,~" ). t.:¢.u,', .... n,,t h~d a meetLng. ~o had th~s set up for next agenda and
:...;:.~..,, ; ',~,'.a~,n .... aware of the fact that ue d~d have, Z th~nk ~t'd be better to say
"'.,.... ..... i~.:: .-,,: ],.,. ,l~'ova Zf~t:~ tl'~¢~, vei',.t(.:le VOf-St;S tt~e vehicle, dYJ. v.tng into, but Ln
-.,,.., ,:,t:~;..-:. 't w;~:-: ~:,u~' decistor, to move ahead u~th those stop s2gn3 and as a part
' ',';,,n'l~ you c~n ,znt~cj.p~te ~ Yequest Crom sLaff (o have the
· :., .di, '..',),.(~mk~g , '...
;'::::.r,::;? t'~:look ,it ~hat process; because we are very concerned that ~e have
_ . ,,; r,,~-u , .
-. :.' -... ... ~ . .~ ,; ~:: .... ~:.~]~:,l'~ed :i~,':t can bi~i'~G gue~ions like Lh~ b~ak ~o iha City
.' - ' I,~ , '1 !
. .~ .-~ ., ,'::n:'~ii,"r. In~t th~. c: :i~zet,s h~d ~ccess but ua set ~ coup].e af
~;~'/:'r-.,: :nhr. Lu~n ~ha citY,eno and the Council. ~ don't think that, that. can
· '.-~..;'.' ," d,-.c:';.~xJon ,-~.lld ,,T dec.[si, on ].Jka this one should be m~de quicker thor, Jt
I , I . ~ ·
.-;..'~:':,~L::.: b~h~;¢" .~L'"
R~-r.-L '/,';,.',g:~;'-: 1' ~¢i].]. &d,,it to seine emotional involvement. My 6 year old was
:-..'.l..';-:.~ ~'.i.','.',- t i-.,.,..5 ;.'s,.-',i' :;t,.f that day. They were r2dJr, 9 together when the 5 year
.:'' ;,.:-:-~ ;~d,~.nd ,'~'n '.'.r~1. o the car hut one of the tl~ngs T think He cdn assume Zn
,',-'.'i_,.l:l.~,~'hoo-'-r;:.]~ or cli."u~di-~l~, wl~ethe'r Jt vas the chZld's fautt or' tho
.!r :..,;;..,": f,~,.i]t., ~'.~:;-tn(n system:_~ h~ue. to be put Znto place, because we can't
· · . · · ' ~ , ~ ~j t..:. ' ,
::..-.~., 4 ..:.;'J : ;.;~,~'1 ~ ,...a,- olds ,~n hikes ~]u~ys to obey stop signs. Zt's just
°' ' ~ M~eting - June 25, 19~0
"/ ....
::,-,,'. ih;. way j.t is so there has to be a better means of control in the
-.-.:,.z. hh.:,-h,.:o.J because Jf something isn't done, it will happen again. Z know. T
'.nc.t~ l~u f,tst cars t'rave~ through there. Z s2t up on a h~ on Pheasant Dr~ve
:;n:'. u,~.tch them, ~nd ag~n, because Z have the emotional attachment. Because Z
h,~vo ~ 3 year old and a G year old and I live on a hill with the driveway
':~-a¢ ;mg .... un, I'm very concerned about it And that abuts into, I forget the
· ~,~e of the street but I would like a 3 way stop sign there because that's the
!ong~,st unimpeded stretch and cars speed along there and i'm concerned for my
own r. hildren's safe.tx. Firma].ly, this last question and recommendation I guess,
i'~ T can make such a thing is that as one travels south on Galpin Lake Road off
:-r T':', 7, the speed limit is 25 mph and I fully agree with that. It's a windy
rC,.~md NOt very populated once you get down the hill there. You've got woods on
.'::',?~ s~de and a pond on the other but 25 is adequate. You turn onto Pheasant
n:'~,.Js i),to thF.~ neighborhood and you can accelerate to 30. ~s there a reason for
to- ~.~i,worth' I'll let Gary go at this one.
r-'.l'>' [./aFF.~l.r(~ Ga].pin is a County road and the speed on that road is governed by
';lh~ Count? so I don't know if they did a speed study themselves. MnDot has
j,zrisdiction ~ctually on the road.
agree with 25 for Galpin.
G,~?,->.' bJarre, rl- Ysah, I'm not necessarily going to argue with that. I'm just
t'ryJng to say how they may have arrived at their 25. All other streets are by
..~i?.td';.¢ 3,0 mph unless the Commissioner of Transportation has done a speed study
:,,,. ha..; given authorization for a modified speed based on sight distance,
c.,~omefr.i¢: ¢:o~.-s~de.r~tions and ~ctual traveled speeds that the road is being used
~t. oftentimes MnDot will do a speed study and if there are no other
',-.-..-.trictive criteria, they will assign a road for the speed at 85 percentile of
th~. traveling public is using it. Sometimes we see the speeds get bumped up
ju~;':, because of useage.
~!ck Yeager: So speeds are dictated by the public rather than by safety issues?
..... ~ .... '''~1, it's a definitive input
~o~tnci!man Johnson' That's the way MnDot does it. The 25 mph you're talking
.... t.(...,,.;t ~-. on tho Hennepin County side as you come up from, as you're going from
T'.-I 7 sottt h?
Rick Yeager' Right.
Co)~nr:ilman Johnson: What's the speed limit as you're coming from the north?
Councilman Johnson: Where does it change to 25?
'~,",.'.t):c.:ilp,~ar, Workman: I think at the top of the hill. And they have patrols out
because I, 9 months of the year drive that way regularly on Lake Lucy,
),bo.::',>.' knows that. And then north on Galpin and they're sitting right over
hill waiting for people to do 55 over that hill.
..... t,. "'.,.',,~.~'~c:[] ~icet[l'lg June 25, ;[990
.: .... ~..,:.,..],'~:,' ;~,h~ ~O,.',zn~ no question about the speed on Ga].pJ.n Lake Road. I
'".'~:" -~:' ' r i~:~ ;.,'i':c:;'c 50 i:':: ~nd :;o is 45 and so is 25. I understand the logic
'..:,',.h'n I ct Th.'.: lo-.]j.c T don't undersL,~nd i.s leavin9 a county 'road coming into a
· .', i . .,~_ I i. · I .i.
:.--"L' :--' :' ,"."-.: .;;'~:1 ~eii,g .].Itowco to c~cceler,~,_e into the neighborhood.
": :.v,:-..'. "':.r.,',-:,-']- ¢,11 i'eside~,tjal areas wJthJ, n the City of Chanhassen are at 30
!:'i ": y.....¢, 7 i'~.si,'J~f~t J.a.] :.:;1. f'eet.
'-':,;,i'.c:;.l.,i;,-/r; L~'o'.,'km~,h: J~lfl? We've talked about this before, about a possible city
,.~" :- '.'" :-, ;t ,'. ' i '~ Otl f 0 "~' T
.... :.,. .,s that 1,e,zr to impossibility?
,]".~ [:' ' ffec'~,.: I. Uottl(I sa>' yes.
· -::'," ..... '].~;.'...,~ k;or :(m,:',i~- WCL~I.,:t you have to do that city wide?
,.~., m,~l].,v it :.', don., a piecemeal basis If we have a par'tic:u].a'¢
'." -: '-'. (.f i-'c,.',.dway that ~e think ~s a real concern, then the Department of
,, ..., ..,.: ~j,)'r-t- ·
· . ..,"; :~ttn ~n a i'~qUe.~t to the 6omm.issJ. oner of Transportation ask.~ng that
, I. ..I r
:: 4 ,.,...',>' ~.'..~.3~,~... T~,~il they do the study but it's based solely on traffic
:..")li.t;,le.:-_'. and .,...?, ,_~d_. and not r, ec;essarily safety. They k, il.l take into consideration
": ,-~ ,-.
~ . -'- ,I,,'l ~1,=,. would be and I m asking Gary I guess too, what
~)"1',~ ~;;I,:~i, I'~01 xiil,.~',,. ~.,_~'. ~
. ~ I I
· . ..... :: '-..: the Cji:~', how c;o;~]d the City accomplJ.~:h getting 25 city wide therm?
n,~'..-.,, ~.~!.:,i",'eil: Tt';; really a m,.ttter for the Salutes because State Statute
;~...':~'..:::'. t:-:...: ,~].I ~:treet.'; except fo~' !J_ke Tntarstates and there are some
--.x.'.-',p';..~ons ].J_~-:e ,a].leys and school zones, are 30 ~n the state. W1sconsJ. n is 25.
· ':., .-..' r :,...:,:,(';.:: l. oc, L~;~g ~t ~c~'oss the board type reduction of that, that's
· ,:..',~;-'i~"-,'n¢ ;':',,.,~ ,'~alI/ the state ].eg2slature would have to deal with. i'm sure.
'1;.':'..t ¢(-u!cl :,o? ,ti'blti',~r.i..1..y (:omc ~n a~(l do a speed study of ~ll our streets to
:.',',"::..',.: ,~:. ,~ 75. F:Lt't they will address geometric constraints and other things of
".'.';'. '.'..t:~: '-..:.~,,.I ',he ,-~¢:tu.,~l speeds L,'-aveled but that's the limit of the
".:.:,:.,:'.' .: .-.: ~ :': n.','r ' g poi'ogal..~.ve.
..... ; ..... r, ut:::c,.,"~ The ~.Jty of Chanhassen can't do it. On].y the legislature can do
R:t.:-.'.' Y.)ag¢;': So what I'm hearing is you have no local jurJ. sdiction over traff/c
¢'. ~.,! .... , .... .~
U'.'. ::.'~ 7 ..... ;- -~ .-
:':. /,:., ¢i~..¢.1' ovc.'.," l'.l~e, speed aspect.
:::'- .-".-:h~,oi't:-' t. Jit'l~ .-.':omc exceptions. Again tl~e Council remember we did set
~' ...... ' ,:.t~.l. in va'rious spots.
, ' :~'..; ;~i' 'i I'-
2,'.':,.' '-...'.:.:':-~.:~' '~' tl,.i;;i, wc have a statute, and Roger can correct me if I'm wrong,
f.:: :; 3',,-3,},:. that. we can set local jurisd$ct, ion. One of them ~ know is alleys.
; .., .,~ ;: c' .s,r:l~.::ols zone~ and there-s a third one that escapes me.
· ' II
L',:,:l;'i('.:]l~l,--~i', .,,~)'¢,l<fll,.~l't: I]OW crossings?
, '.;',,~, .. A:', l':~,St.,.iv,'~tlor,, T. lived in Golden Va].lr;y befo/'e moving here
.'~,:! *I),?;-,-' :,,-:;-,~ :;1.enty of streets in Golden Valley, residential streets that were
10
· '?..t?' ~oun.::'T[ Hesting .- 3Llne 25, 1990
;:,o~t~.:d well below 30. And maybe it is done on an exceptional basis and that's
· ~',':-."t. T-'II. c~o the exceptional route tf that's what it takes.
l~ chaf'r,:~: Excuse me Mr. Yeager, you can post them any speed you want. It's
'~o ~.,q~](ty of issuing citatiorls if they are exceeding that particular speed
'",;:*t th,~1, ue run into problems with.
::~:.s.:~In,.~ .~ohnson: They get thrown out of court if anybody protested basically
~::~ s;e cauld post it at 12 mph if we wanted to.
h'a?.::,' 2hm';~¢=].~ Yeah, I understand some of your concerns with speeds because I
..:-:..r: the :-;anle thing. Many thlngs that I've been watching rather extensively
"'.....,,i,: '.t,,. ~',..z'y. Even stop signs. Nobody stops for stop signs anymore.
T?:s:.-'.-;.: j~:;:t rolling stops, if that. That's become a real safety problem but we
,".,zr,~* dr. ,'.;n/thing really as a City other than post some of these things and
-'::s~.., r:it,-~.~inrlS, z think l+,'s the State's responsibility to start teaching
· ". fu..'r.-~ wt:,:,t they must do. ~'d love to stand back and do some preaching but I
c.~:,': ...';ave the. world as much as I'd 11ks to. ~'d just like to see all drivers
:'~'. F.;'r-:cautf..qnar/ things and that should be just an automatic going through a
· -.:-. j d..... .- 't. '; ,:l a~-~.a at 25 mph. I watch myself rather closely, even in a 40 on
"':",.::. R'.vd. w~th chlldren on bicycles. Rather than being on the paths they're
',;:, L?:,, :::treets. Unfortunately there's, you know you slow down and Z do and Z
::,.~? ~'.'lou down to 30. I've had cars even pass me on Kerber Blvd..
C:.~t:nc:ilmar, 3ohnson: And say a few words?
Yes I have. But there are a lot of problems. I agree with you.
oTr:k Y.eager: And I'm not going to approach the State and try to have them make
.-.~,':.r:$..-': T'n~ not looking that long range. I'm looking at something short term
t'.':~':, ue c~n put into place that makes the neighborhood a little bit safer.
L::-..',,e .h,-~d an issue now and you've responded we11. I'd hate to think that ~t
t...-,l',-...-..: something like that again and then okay, now we'll put stop signs over
he.r.:.' or it"s goir, g to take something else to happen and now we'll fix that.
,~t.....-.. very reactive. I'd rather see us be proactive in a manner that spares the
',,ids.
'"--'.yr.'.,'r ~.h,~li,']: ..Sure, I agree. So if there's something I can do in terms of
-..'~. '~ ~" ';' :',-) ;_ 0 :.' ' ~ .
;,t ...ommittee, I would certainly like to do it
~::;hworth: Again, we can request the State look at the speed limits on your
~'reet. There is a possibility in that process that the State could order back
the stop sign that we just put up and I don't know if that's but we can
:"~quas:L a speed study.
2._.z',-y ',;arren.'. :de can certainly request a speed study with Council resolution. I
:':i0:," point omit too, and I was informed by Dave Hemps1 of my staff that as it
, .-.-~.-.,~:.'~ [o th,: intersection wlth stop signs, it may appear reactive and I guess
~...:: ;.:.;'-. t,--.in]>' ~;ar, ted to respond because of what ue saw happening here but the
,-.,..?..','r, ach that ~as taker,, there was correspondence back to the neighborhood
.'-'.q:.,.eut.!n,.~ a petltion to be submitted which is our formal process for evaluating
,.'~n ir, torsectlor, and we were basically, that was the Clty's last communication on
'-'.,'..t..'.'.nt¢r.:..'_'.(:tion for us then to complete the study and do our thing on lt. To
· ' ....... +ho.~c stop signs so we pre-empted that process because of the obvious
; ',-' .... ..,. ,. I:. ..
11
, ! I..I. .
.'-'.:., .:":. :.. '; .... '-'-.-',.."!.~,,:,,3', hood and w~::"r,.¢-., I think 91ad we could respond as qnick].y
'.".;:.:' :...' ..- n:-.:-.~, to ,~.',llct,.~ ~.hat
· h~,: "' :4~>'I~.'. '.~h~t ue c:~n do R~ck ~u to ].at yOL~ know when Pub.l~c Safety'-.
.. ~ ~ t . ~,!
..... ,,,.. ,',;,:;.'-,. ~'.','c. be.b~y ~;~:]comc I',,~vln9 you come to them and just lndicate
, '.:, .'Ii:! 'a :.:.-i',',ic
¢. .. _ ,.......
". :..'' "'.:! l;I,<,': ~,.o do th,'.~t ,znd again, I applaud the City for responding
. ... I. ..I ' ~.I, _ .I ~ J. . ..
. '.: ,~:.'..' ~ ........ on.'_~ ,.~.,,m ~e just wanted to button do~n tbs ne~ghbo'rhood so
" '"~.: s. af'-',- Tl,ank you.
-'.., ,..'..."' - ¢ [;':,,', ', ~.!'. H,~y;,'r and hit'. Yeager,. the next meetJ, ng of the PublJ. c Safety
".-:;':. ;:,Y,. ':. - ~ :; ;~,, .~,i~~ ~' 1~I. ~'i
· _ ." ,, ~,. 7:00 here at City Hall so you're IllOre than welcome
..-;;:;" ".-' ';c r,c, :;;;':~'j,,,~o,s ~f you ~ouLd ].~ke to to address th~s ~ssue,
'''"' -' ~ ...... ,s. nd t
· · .... :.- ....... he'r'e"~:; one other th~r:g to note .(.s that ~n Carver
........-. "-' "- ",",,,.,.. .... ~",1;': ]'~;9J,e:::t yev~.nue f'r'o,, traffic citations of al.1. the cJ. ties in
, ,. ,.._..:.....;, , .o~:: th.,:: !.as'i reports T. :.~:aw so OLt¢ Public Safety Department or- out'
..:..:::": .'...:' -.-'.-'.'," ~:e f.:!-J¢.-Jff ~.:s uorkinV, b~e are getting out there and doing a
-' '. "f.F,'-,;:t:.v~: j .... J if yolt look ,st ju:;t the revenue bl~S~° as an indication
'm' m m m m; i -- : m { I : ] m [~; I '' )' (;ltl,f::;' vi:sitor presentation?
oU3L~f; flEeRiNG: REQUEST TO VACATE A DRAINAGE AND UTILITY EASEMENT ON AN INTERNAL
'~,, .~¢~HCAoT CORNER OF DAKOTA AVENUE ANO HIGHWAY 5, MCDONALD'S CORPORATION.
'-'..~' :':.'.'....:...?.; F,. t";'.,.7oi , Y )e~].].? ¢lon't have ,~ whole lot to say on this one.
'?' "- 7- ?l
· ' :~ .'; ,] ;'; ," III t.~ '1" 'it ~ ~ * '
- ::~ 5; beJ. m'mg T'splaced on the new plat
tile audience wishing to address th.i.s?
· - ,.::-,_,:: York:nan moved Councilman 3ohnson seconded to close the public
i,,:z.;-.:.;'lCj. A]J :~oted in f~vor and the motlon carried. The public hearing was
-:.:.,:-~' :J_
~,:,.s-.cl,~tion P90-~8' Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to
..ppT.-,u,: t!;8 Vacation Request ¢~0-3 for vacation of utility and drainage
--.--~$ents ~:--. shown in the descrip[ion in Attachment ¢1. All voted ~n favor and
'"i;,:~ ~:-':,..tlor. carrie;cl.
.,,,:,,',.nn....:.~,,..~ ~F ~;[.BS; COMMUNITY SERVICE OFFICER VEHICLE.
":o'.: f'.:-:'.'l,..'.',: .... i ~- tl'li.:l[( Ll'lJ.'l'; iS Ol]i'l second or third time back with the CSO
'.,-'."'..:' "'r: ,?~cl', of the ~rlstances trying to flnd a u~y to h. rlng the 1tern closer
t...-.. 'i~:-'_. ,:u.'.~-~:.t -- ,'~mo~;~t. I tl~ir.k ~hen ~e h~d first looked at th~.s we were
.- ...... ' coo oD to ¢18,000 O0 Then ~e came back with b~ds ~n the
' ' I[. III ......: .... : I' ' "''':~'''1--':' Fi"'';~]Iv.. , ' ~;~ck u;th 1-ecommer, dation that we be looking to the
~ l'' ~ : (.: biddlin,:j p'rc, cess through the Counties. That has produced a very
·'~. ,~1
· I," r ~ t ° .I Iff: .
.... · '--'c ::. ., · _,-~-:~,. lar~;._'6, n Chevrolet J.n the ~mount of $13,517.00. The b.[ds:
'. : ,:-. :' -- -.::~'.,'y aor, p,el. iti. ve. wi'th other' bids bein9 $13,600.00, ~16,?00.00 and
· "' '.?r.,c..'..'.~ ';~ '-fl fr.'c:1'-; ~h,';;: l:l:e bid 'r-eceived ~s within the budvet for
~°..3 '...,.:- .h i. :-. l ...... -,::: ~,¢e.].1 ,--~:~ within the Amounts anticipated in th:; cont'r-act
' ' ' '- . ¢'~
,: _..', .-'.:-.. : ---".'.[e.-~, .~,.~..,, , ~ou.]d ',-ecommond approval of tl'~a low bid of
City Council Meeting - June Z.5, 19°/0
Mayor Chmiel: any discussion? I ~ould so move that recommendation for
$13,517.00.
ounci.,.,an 3ohnson~ I 1! second that and glad it s coming out of Carver County.
CcunciJman gorkman' Bi.-ocus~iol]?
nounc~].man Morkman: I don't really have any discussion. I just war, ted to let
the Council kno~ that you've got a majority and I'd like to be a part of it too.
Resolution ~90-69: Mayor Chmiel moved, Councilman Johnson seconded' to approve
the a~arding of the low bid to Lenzen Chevrolet in the amount of $13,517.00 for
the Community Service Officer vehicle. All voted in favor and the.motion
carried.
A~ARD OF BIDS: MURRAY HILL WATER TOWER REHABILITATION PROJECT NO. 89-24.
Caf'/ ~arren: Hr'. Mayor, this is a rebid basically of the Hurray Hill water
to,:er as noted based on our lead content issue with the PC~. ~e received four
bids as summarized. The lo~ bidder is Od!und Protective Coatings in the amount
of ¢64,2~0.00. Considerably lower than the other bidders but we feel
::c.l:;fortabl~ based or: their ~ork on the downtown tower. They did an excellent
3ob and we think it reflects the fact that they want the job. ~e have every
':si',' i_o believe that tl~.'
. . .~y b;ill dc a good job for us as they did on the other
tower.
Mayor Chmiel: Good. I think that's an excellent bid for us. Any discussion?
If ~,..~ d.'.'..-.:cussion~ cai~ I ha'.,:~ a motion?
Resolution ~0-70: Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to
accept the lo~ bid of Odlund Protective Coatings, Inc. in the amount of
$~4,26e.00 end award the contract for reconditioning of the 200,000 ga]ion
M,Jrray Hill water tower to Odlund in that amount. All voted in favor and the
zotion carried.
PRESENTATION OF 1989 AUDIT REPORT, DELOITTE AND TOUCHE.
Don .,?:oh~.~orth We have. Cliff Hoffman and Dan Meyleben here with us this evening.
They'll be introducing John Schaffer who dld the in-house work. Also present of
course ar.'; Tom Chaffe. e and Jean Meuwissen from our staff. I've asked that the
presentation bo kept to a reasonable length. Hopefully 15 minutes. There's a
¢e,.m.p!e of other items or: t~ms cganda and at the end of the presentation-by
De!sifts, thC Council may ~ish tc brlng up questions regarding either the
~,r=.tragc repor'~ and necessi+y o¢ that under Federal legislation. That's a
sepa;-~to ite~ ~ut one you ~a>' want to speak under. And the other one was the
~t ~ {*'' ~' '+'' :[li~ C:,~:~ " ' ' + '
..... ,.~,a ~gaLn hat za anathar ~tem later ~n the agenda but
~g~n Lhn ~.t~'].tc.~: ~re fL~ZL)' aua~-e of that ~tem as '~e~Z. ~th that Z ~ouZd
Mayor Chmiel: '.¢i.'.h that then as Don had said, 15 minutes. As they said in the
~ ~" i0 but ke 5
ArF..F, )'",' ,'¢0~ 15, ....pec~ ta
~3
.., ...... . ,.'. ~a]'< a:._': f.-.~st as '- car: Hayor'. First of all I'd like
';' ':' '. :-~'~ u.4 "' tl~,:-~ h,:~l'~d,aut,; that you should I,ave received earlier that kind
· '-' ':.:-,:' ,'"' '.':]l :.-L,'t','i:-;L~,'::~: on the 6lt. y a~id 9ire you a fee]. for how things
.. ' . ' , . .~ ~ ~: I I .' ~.
.... * Okay, ue'll share.
: , t., '.;, }, ,..
....... ' ,-.-. '". ,.: i,j.flh or~;.'-, of ,.he thirlgs that :!;ome peop].e
'"'~" ', : ,'.,:-.,.;,,'~r~-.~,*. w'itlj t::;, what 3s the ratlo o'f number of
· . · .. -/ ii
· - ........ . ....~-";~:.',.. ,'.~.,,d to houo'.'hn]d, Uo.,,_. have the_ a:r. ati~tlc:s here
.J ,.
;.'::.~ ;' :",' ,.,..'~,~ '-."vr.'-'.'r the ],:si. 2 years. Fir:';t of a].] .let me say'
'~''. "' .... ~::'/,'-:r secl'~ :::omebodx in t!~e Tw~n C~tic;s metropolitan
':."'- -.v: .... s;";:r.,..: a:~ s. ,'a,.'.io as high as 232. That shows a very h~gh
,-.' ;.~'".:.:-. : -~ z'o,; .'.-.:)c,k, .... .... I ,?~. ).,_',. *,.hal. way.
..... !.J .....:¢.,~ ,;] .
.... : _ -..'. ,?XC: leflf employee:;.
.... 4 ,.! ¢¢ . ":':.'t& i:,i":.' a1.'J.O may ,zrgt[e 1" h t h~:f '
-.'.' ,.,... '' . P, OLt9 . . yOU re not prov2din9 enough
· :.-.v',',;'! t.'-,;-...I '::'. 'he.. othe'r' u.,'.da of jr. "t
· . . ~ ,-.~u..iT~ looking at the numbers
.i i i i' ! L.m.. i
... -.. .- .... ;.,~;:,; bl~a,, sof(]e people ].lke to compare that ~ to number o,r'
.... ..
,,c. F, UIii~e'F ~ti'6 airlofig [he be. st I've ever seen in ~he T~in
:- .. ..... -,~,, ~-aa. To give you :some CO~f~p,~ri:!;,2nS for J. nstagce, the City
' ' ' ' ,, "'; '1 ~; ' '
· " '-,;~:, ~ , '. . :a::;.r, c~ 2upzt].a'lion to employee:': ].s J68 versus your 932
' :;,~:,' t::7 ' ,.' ~'; r ~-. k 1
, , , . ~.,oo .,-X:~ C:enLei', ~t's 213, C~ty of Robb~nsdaLe ~t-s L to 200.
· . ..... -'.'s--',.:';,9 '."~';' u,;Z].. Ti~o other th~ng ~ookJng at the f~rst p.~ge, ene of
'' "' .... · '',,:' ~-~." ~',.:t'~: ,~;':¢ tlio Jo:~ge:.; ZI'~ 'i:I~e watoY ctheJ* ' the 3ew~-i- ¢uf~cJ tiler
', ' .. '::.-:-~. n, ..'; ~,::;.i].7 uha';', people ~ook for tiler are ~ook~n9 at your
'-' -.-... f-.: ..:.r .'.~,;(:r,'.. '.. fhat yo~ti- ontef'pv~se funds ;~t Least bre~k ~:uen.
'-. t--:' t ',. L~J.-, t:i, .... ,tc,~--. O~ [he pLu:3 s~de though you r~,v,.. 5o unfunded
:. '"'. "...-: '"* ....,fY'.: ',,.', :-;k61etons Jn the closet at the C(ty of Chanh~ssn
' * ' ~ '"~ 'h6!. '~ '
.. .- .,:.' ~ . ,':u,::, : ~;;t~¢...~i r4 t,zLk about J:; the b~g bang t"~at's coming
· '" .", ...... '7;.-'.,. L~,:-ir,(., to 9ct ,'~ lot ~ore conscrv~tZve ai~d you've already
i. r ~ ..... i ~ E
.. .~-,,.,.;,,.,~,~ ;' :~,:.~t~ ~
.'. ' ~c., to that. You are on almost a fLt~ accYual bas2s of
- , .... *',. <..~ "1-,:; :'~'.~;bai3 are ~eaL, ~f~d t. hey're not 9o~ng to get VOl-Se uhere for
' · ~ ~ntJ. t[~s as Lhey 9et touai-ds ~994 ~t s going to get
' ;' -:. ,;"; gOV;~ ;~;i.'~i'~t~.~ ¢
, .......
' '. v,,-. '.:C-_ 'flJ.] riJ nV !.o f he ' '
..... lu~,,:.. [,age, to shoe what the r'at~o of your net debt
-' - ' ~ ' . .~ -U ,~
· ,::..': ...... ., .,.',:~]tte and al.so o~ ~. per capita bas~s. One of the things
'~ ~.';-.; ,,=;: '.L :.,:,¢ 6'~t>.' o~ Ciiaf, ha:~:su.n ,~¢ this zs a young city that's,
..'.. 7~,._: ..,,:-'cyq~:~¢.,.¢,~y.' -" Th~ ~at~.ona] average debt peY capita ~s $572.00. However)
r.: . ...... ,-- . ", "~, - '~i.,;':' ...., .s~uar'ti].e t~ough, ',.heFo ara so[nc that are on the
· ~ .... ~ , ~ , . .
.:~.. GO ,:-s; -.~;.'; ..... ~,,9c. ~ part of this reflects your age. One other city
.' - . .... t~ ' ~ & (-
~ :-..':.; ~;.,' a: o~,:. , ~e .13 ysar~; older as f8r' as development than you ara
~ .._ .'t.,.. ...... ... :: ,. '.> -,oc.~..... 00... ,,>OF C:,/?{ ~..i. :::o yo]t. can ..,Cee if you've young ,tied you're
':'.. ".- ~:c,.':.;:" J.'~ :.,,t(ch higher. Part of J,t reflects also that you're
· "' "' "-~- ' ~l~rs versus what they were 20 years ago
.... :, ,~g.-. ~.i, ...... ~y v: do .... So I
, , , .~ , , , %
.'.. r'.:....t~-~>-,.l',Ll,~ 1. o [;,? ovorly alarmed about. Nov df'opping down to
, i. ,. ~ , I
.:, .'.';:'~ .': .~(;;-J. c, ok~n9 ~t u~,~['s called the operat, jng ratio and your
... , , . ,- i
..r. :' ':,;~'- ':,;,~ .. ~hi:, ~;'; operatil,g expenses uitho~Jt depreciation
:-........~ .::. '.:' .I :- ..-,.; ~ ~ ;:, ~ ~ -,~,, ~.~({ 4 '
/~.., .,,e lover the nLtmbeY the ~oYe profit that
..... ~ ~ I ,.. ~ ~ ~
- , " ~ ~'.:~'.'. ...... :,~...of,,-..[ average of 64A. A city like ~agan zs 69~4 and
· ... ~ .... - ......; ..... :..;, ~;~e .... a] fo >"OLt auoltt a ]'~ttle bit ~oi'e i.s that you
. . ...... .. .,.. .it: .... : ~ ~ +hJn',. ,., ~mp~ov'%Y,~ tho~;e mai-gins. Tur'ning ~o the handout
· ¢ .. % . -. jj i ~
.'. '., :..3:.-..'., ,,,.. , ;,.:::~:: ,: .... y'..)~t,' o~):¢Y,;tJ'~9 f~tnds:. The 9eneY;-~] fur, d, your
- . ' II ~ -
" - - ~ ' , -- ,~r,~.~ ~hcl[ we back out property, one
.. _ · ' , ' .., .. ,~ I11 mci :3,
14
*"'",.,, Co~Lr:~'.~.l. Maet~r,,.] - June 25, 1990
,: ~ ~':~ m,~..~:~.;-es is how liquid are you and you have had an increase in fund
~ OOO.O0 That's positive and it's good that that's no dropping
.~ .... ':.~... ~ha~ s ,.,ind of lookin9 a% wha~ are ~our fund b~lances if you
..-'. ~r,~pr'r~.., ',~cause you e~n'% ~a~ bills ~ith ~ro~ert~. That's a 9ood
.......~. -... ~: %h~ next page, we'~e had a 9ood increase and ~our unreserved fund
..,-... -. . ....... f from over the ~e~rs but as ~ou can see from the next ~age
....... h %h.~ you've ~e~ded ~ha% because ~s ~he ci%~ budge% 9ro~s and as %he Ci%~
~ ~h,'~r, hass~r, kee~s going from a ~o~ulation standpoint, a~tuall~ ~ou haue less
'-~.'.~.:',~3~ ~:~ ,~ p~rs~n~ag~ of ~our %o%al expenditures %hah ~ou did back in 1985.
~:~.~ ~::.k~ %,~ ~,:'. ~n 2 more ~a~es ~o the revenue ~ie chart 3ohn. Lookin~ at
,.~",~:~ ~9~, ~oin9 back 5 ~ea'rs, ~ou'll s~e ~ sz~ll ~h~nge in us~r fees. The~
~::.-~: ~.;,~ ~..~ ~.S~. There's a very healthy in~rease in the license, ~ermi%s and
......,,.~' th:ng ~ha%'s,. ir, t~r~s~in~ is ~ro~ert~ ~axes are a lower ~ercen%a~e of the
~'.,..~ b,.~d~% %h~n they ~ere back i~ 198~. That's fan%as%it. I don'% h~ue an~
-~:~-- ~:I~-'.~%~: ~h~ are like %ha~. The other ~hin~ ~h~% ~ou've done from a
· .,~.~".,~s.,'~,t standpoint ~nd i% 9ets baok %o %his efficient7 index is as ~ou've had
.:.' ::::~:~-e..::.c in revenues related to buildin9 ~ermi~, ~ha% ~7~e of thin~, m~n7 of
· '~'..~. ~xpens~'~ rela~ed %o %hose revenues ~ou'ue con%rat%ed ~i%h outsiders for and
~:~ '~,ou h~v,?n'% ~dd~d ei~ staff. So ~s all ci~ies 9o throu~h-a boom and bust
-:'-~:~.~,.~ .~ou ~or,'+, per~anen~l~ put %hose ~eopl~ on ~he ~a~roll. To 9iue ~ou an
~::-:~.;.]~ ~ ~',~ ~h~% ratio I talked about ~here ~ou'u~ got ~ to ~3Z ~eo~le.
~":,'..ci[y c.f Z~r, neapo3, is, %ha% number is 1%o 70. ~s ~ou kno~, ~inneapolis has a
.:.-~ :. ].,~r,~.. ~u',~lie ~orks development. I% do~s ~11%he streets and ~1~ th~
~.-_:..~ ..... th.~re. You can see %he difference %hough. Turnin9 %o %h~ next
~-~',h17 t~-..~ ~,,os~ dram~.~ic shan~e since 1984 is %he chan~e in ~he ~ercentage of
-~'~' '.o~al ~,~,eral fund budge~ %ha% ~ou s~end on ~ublic safety. I% ~as ~4.7~ in
-. ,~ ... ~', ,: %'.'~ ,:~'..~,~s ~n th~ s~eond class so I ~ould s~ %ha% ~ou'r~ more ~ormal
".'.~'. ~,~.~ :~r~.: b,~c:k in ~98~ and ~ou shouldn'~ be real ~roud about a bi~ number.
..... c~f th,: ~l~r,~.s ~ha~ I do a ooncurren% revie~ on is ~he ci~ of ~iami and
'~"~ .... n~"',,,.~, ~:~ 60~ so 7ou s~end th~ monet in the other ~reas so ~ou don'~ hau~
'~, :':~.~nd the ~,oney here. Turnin9 %o the next p~e, another measure of
~"'-,' · ~r, 9ouernmen~ is 9eneral fund r~uenues and expenditures on a
~ .... ~ .~.;~.', r
.... '~ ~ I, . .
..... , ..... ~ ,~...is. This is a very level chart It has gone up but very little from
':s._~.'~ ,~:~p~'~c~.a!ly when you factor out inflation. Part of thi~ is the growth that
:~.':','~ r~-.%~j.r~d ~o provide as the City becomes a larger city. Now if you take
'~.~':'..~;'~ a par capita basis add in the City of Chanhassen, if ~ou multiply the
. i... ~ ~
-~-." c:a~.,t~a T[me:~ roughly ~.97 or 3, that gives you roughly what it is co a per
'..~-::~.~ho].d b~.s and a !ct of other cities publish per household information,
~?.7.::,min~tor, which is a very efficient city, is $830.00. Brooklyn Cmn%er is
~ cO an(~ ~:a~ versus, your's would be about $708.00 so your numbers are
..... It,:,,;. on a per capita basis oocm again, comparing you %o Eagan, Four
';??,~..~0 co~;~pared to $~5.00 so once again ~ou're less. The next page gives a
".~.~%'-~::c-n te kow your public utilities are working here. Your water and sewer.
· ~','r ,3. or:¢..~.rn berm is that the revenues need to be a greater percentage of the
.~,v.~:r,~ll ,~perating mxpensms plus depreciation. You need %o be putting more cash
'~' ~,,..: .... · A~,d I ;~ave taken a look at the Cit~ Manager's proposal from a rate
-'..~ndpo~nL and I found %hat i%'s verF innovative. It's kind of like a public
.... ~!~i~. ~ .~..n~.; ~ have experience in the electrical/utilities industry and t~e use
~ ,~, e' :~ct almost a demand charge in the water utility area does seem to make
..~ :"' '~..,. ..... .... ~[~: ~h,~.t you'ro faced with is as ~ou have to add new water plants,
.... ,,.'.-"~ ,:~r.?. s.~5:~tantially oore expensive than what the base is. As you add
· ....j..~:.~2y~ j~:&: as you ~oul~ add a new electrical power plant, they cost
15
" ".". "~ >ir. f" ' .'furi~ 2.5, 1990
.... '-- ~ .. 1,. doe~ ...... to be a very
--' "'...' '-',,.,...,-,"".,.. ,,'I~.;,3,. 11~,.,.r'~_,.. i~ rate. relief ~n there for the se~ior citizens
--' .... · ,..:.-..m,~,,' cm,,~c ~o ~'ve taken a look at it ~nd it does s~em to
.......... . -...:;. so~.~,u. Ar,,othcr t~mJng Z'd 11ke to emphasZze ls that you
m . m ~ .. . I .... I J
- .- .~... '.~.:. ..... :.. ::u,. ~,s~.~lher ~ plan of c~refu].ly ~tudying the rates every year.
.... : "..:." ~;.-.~-:' ::) ~.:~: >,(~m've ~one aimost 5 years without a change in the rates
· :':n~.; .-.'Lrp ,~,,""~"'-'~.,,~... c~very year would be auch ~ore p'referable than to a
· .:. ,.-.:':.:.;- t':,::' you n,J,21'~:. ~','~ faced u2th Sn the future. Turnlng to the next
. ~.- ' ~ I .' I..~.
· ......'_ .,:-:5 S, Lillimim,}f'y of your ~nv,;stm~ermt F, erfof'K,,s¢~c~? ~md that goes fromm
-:,'' '.T"" T~':¢~ I-:~;' t~mJno Js that [he investment earnings keep going up and
': '~:. .~._,; - ;,( -J t-~
· -- ' .... ~,~..:~ from a Fo.iIcI standpoZnt. Ha)nta~njng fa~'r~y h~gh yeZ~ds
~:'.' ..'"l...r,:..'::..,-,...s~,-~ the ,udf¢~t.>., the funds that you have Lnvested. Turn~ng to
' .... ' '' ,. ".' '.;:]<,~d ;s,;u..;.' ~ t~e" debt Per cap&la, From ~997 you't~ see
.' .' c~ , ' ~
...... ~-' ','.-'"~'~,'~ ~.;~--~ ;ver~ga debt serv~co ~ymenls ~n the c~ty ~nd
· ~'. ~ '.": ;..~ .... pa/off y~ar~. The Cit7 ~oo~n'~ have that ~ong befoYe ~t's
, ~. , ...-.:~... '..,-;.i~..j,~ .... ~ ¢~, ..
'"' '~ .-'.'s~; ,~' '
......,..';- ~,'~ ,.[~e d~l~[ ~e'r,,,ic~.. ,,'~'., ~hese t~x ~ncrement dis~r~cts exp~r~ j.n
......... ' . A~ '
;' ~ ....-~ ~,,,~'. ~'Jr~ l~.s a vecy strong Cuture se you 1~ notice the top
''~ r .... ~' ' '
· . · . ,.,:~, L ~:'~ ~..:~ .~cr'em~nt distr~cts that ~re not suppo'rt~d by the
" "' .-~ ~ s - c ~ . '~ I
-'. ......... ~',:~ ~-,,~rt. ~.,,~ ul~.~ ~t the bottom ls tn~ gonera~ obJ.~gat~on debt.
- -. ~ · - c, . ~
.,::.;:' ,.-.,,~:.ol :arlier yOLt had soma figures related to debt. Let's see,
.. . .
.... ,,,. sc.c.:.,nd page'? The :J~bt...
' , - ,,..;u,~ . Tha'...:ti.dh ~. include ([,e tax incre~ent or did that
, :,:]-i -" .'; '..-.'
· ''~ ..........: ;...'- ,n~.-,....,... ,~c,*::.. not include the tax increment. It includes ail
:..~ ..... ,~.:,~I:.:';. II [:~c:ludes ~].I the CO bonds, gecause the tax
.
....· .:.:'." ~:.'. ]:,.¢'.r:~ ,,gain:st specific busL~e.:,.,e.;.' ~.- -~ who have that va~ue, that's not
. - t
.... ~.:t - _
.-.,.-":"' · .... ,.,-:' ¢,~:.,: l~ave one specific question. That enterprise fund on lhe
· ':i--", :",.:, ;'z"'.'~,~ ,,., ,:. t .:--'. r arid sewer. You said that we havo to i,~prove that
· · J · ·,,~ -
''; ' '; ";:'.''FI', ).,1..' "'; ' Y.'..s. ~L,.: '. d "We I~ice to see that margin improved through the,
':~ x..:". '-: .:~;'i'" i: ,;~,.) ,': ].' ' '" ~
...... ,p~..r~ttng expenses, that means somehow to
· I + I. I.. . ,
· : :.. .... .'-,~.',,~'-' -. ,.,..; c.f t,~e eq;t,,[',on. The only way ~ know of doing that quite
~ . I ~. .~ .~ . .L I
· -' .' .': .~"~ "....:::--... Tn,>.'. l~ard th~ng i.s you can't rea~Jy c:ompar~ your rates to
i'.'.:.)'..-?- .... ,, . .... T4 ' .. L , ~
...,...,- .,. ~.:.~ ~::; ~,n,'.~,~u~-'-' ..... you. v~ 9or th~ newest p~ant. That ~akes ~t
, ..,.I ~ .
'"""' ::.~!,'~,,-:.::- ?' ! ;~.-~;i !:t.k:'_-.. to., I have a handout c,n the International City
""'-':'.,:' ! ¢.--:'.:,;".;:~:~; u,-~r:~i, ng trend::-., 2nd the'r'e'~., oo,., factor~ that are in this
r. .i . , ' '.',:,l'~.','~;' ; ,~Z';'. .... ;.h:; City C;F Chanhas;sen .i.-s doin9 ~tn outstand.tng '' '
, joo i1'~
'...':-'.:' -".'-'.,'/ ':.a,. ,.-. o .,- ;v . ~,~ c, nly th.~rlg that ~ ~ust want to b'r'ing to your
.. ~. :.y:.'. ~.,;.. -'...:. , ~ . ,
· ,, .... ~'.-'i,Loip~'~.sre fun~ lo,scs which you 1~ see J.n the operatLn9
16
"'.', :.-.,'l~(':i', Ne~:t J r,g -- June 25, 1990
l= i-* . .~.l. t :.
.... : m ' '; m~ Cm .ion. DLt~ other than that, another way to grade the City Council and
,..',.'..~:;,'.'~..,~i,L~ °r y~lj tLL;'n tO the second page on management practices to avoid.
' 'm m m m mml ~ I m m~1 ~ ~' ~m 0 f ~ h ~ ~ ~ ~~ that you shouldn't when it comes to budget tlme and I
· -' "r.l.' ¢~', :-'.Vl:;:'F c~se he. re you're not doing any of the thlngs that you shouldn't
I i · -,-I.. i q _
· i .. ~s ·
~.".:..:?....~:.-,:.? l,,-tter, the one thing to work for in the future in the annual report,
· ".;.:' ..:.?i,-,f.:)',-. :...~ ,;u,:-11;--',ed as far as flxed assets are concerned. Tn the front
:-"...'.,'- ;,o~.:'].l see that the opinion has a long paragraph that describes the fact
:'.," .,,','.-'.: ,!.s,:'..'t r,,~irltain ds. tailed records of the general flxed assets in the
¢"."..,d ,'~:,:,,:.t:., :-glared to the enterprise fund and Dan will talk about that. We
..... J -I Jr
' ': ' ' ': ~ ~ ' !m ~': tl''st sometime over the next 3 years to get those records in place or
.-,":: '.~,;.. "':.-t qu;~].~fication because I thlnk removing that qualification combined
...'. . ,' ;,.-~ ~'.::)'*.ificate could significantly improve your bond ratings.
..,F. .... Tha''s great,
., ,-.~ fF.,~,,, wi+h that I'll turn it over to Dan, unless you have any
:.:.. ,i._ ..,,:~... ions on the large uhite document
'.-,:. :".a:.yl'.-';ben: Mr. Mayor, members of Council, I'd like to talk about the small
· ".-,':. Thc.;-o's :, letter ~ith our letterhead on the top. The first couple
.-..,:'s :.--. s~-~ int'.,'oducl, ory letter and in our letter we set our observations are
~.:.', '.:~ "~...-..,o!v~: the .'.~p~clal audit procedures. It's just part of the audit. If
.... .:. t~'..--r, '~,-, th:~ second page, the report is broken lnto five sections. The flrst
.,..,: ~':::'.,::.~:ar,.'~ prir,,,:~Fil>: deal with internal control matters. The third section is
'..:-:'.:....:',;;>~.ping type items. The fourth section is future or forward looking items.
'~' ¢"",'-: .-~,:,', fin,-.,! section is the report on compliance for certain laws and
· . ,"l · ·
i:.i.i _.; znn:s promagaded by the U.S. Accounting Office. If you turn to the third
"' ~;-~.ct.io- ! ~,.'-~ t~lk about segregation of duties. If you read through that,
· ...-: ,-','i', ,:, .... ~.,.,:>r it's our responsibility to brlng to your attention this matter.
~¢- ~,' ,.,~j ~ m ,
...... : -...:',rough there, in the comment we indlcate that even though this
i..!,;.,¢.:....~:..4o,.*.s exist, there are other controls to offset the weakness identified.
-'.,- .-,:;~;c. nd ,';.s,-,r:,ent ~,s talk about fixed asset. As discussed here and as Cliff
l-l--F';"..-'l.-~d to, thr-; Clty doesn't have detailed records for thelr flxed assets. So
"~-.-~ '-:~..~ z~ ..-~l.,.~.,stfor:~ ~hy should we have detalled records. Having detailed
!
.....i....,..~ ~:l
TM..I . ;:: n z, .. .~.l. o, *he,. City to better control their flxed assets to guard
; .i.,....~....,~ :~,,~;,'.,:-:".'~nt.c.d use ;4nd?or disposal. Fixed asset listings could be provided
'-",-. ".ml:,h ;.-"o:.~r ins..'trance carrler to make sure that all these fixed assets are
.... ,,i .... r!l>, covered by ir, surance. And havlng the detail will allow us to audit it.
'.".-i- :..~.×~ f~l~ pagns are just primarily housekeeping 1toms. The only item I'd
', ' I ~ , .,
..., .i.: ~-~.1~ ,~,~out is the comment about bond arbitrage. Bond arbitrage as
· ."..-.~:.-s::.:d .Ln the comment, the Tax Reform Act in 1~86 as you're probably well
.... ~, . ..J ~. .I.-
.... . .... .... .,,amati¢; change:~ in the rules governing the issuance of city bonds.
'1?~ t. , .... , .~..
.... ¢ .... .~ ¢.xnept~ons, any interest earned on bond proceeds that exceed the
............ , ITl sorry, that exceed the amount of interest paid
~ L I, ~ ..%L... .I
.. ~.....;; ~-~.¢~1.~.~. back to the :[RS. So the difference between your interest
~-~;,:' 'r~:~ };,.sur int'.~.Fest ~ncome 2s termed arbitrage and must be paid back to
"- ~-~c .sc. :,,,au 2ssued bonds '86-'88-'89 and some of the bonds, the interest
'.'" -.'~ !-:.--:.~ [';;: ..be r'r;bated f.a the IRS. Now what's the risk if you don't have some
"-.'. ;.:.:,;,F:~+.~:'.Jon ~nd uh.~t's the risk if you don't pay in money you owe to the
17
,.-. '.; ', i'no:-:: r..ou]d happen. There can b~.-. penalties and ~ntei-'eat as
' '' J~; '"- I..0.~-:.". i..'r.',.yll, F.*l;t:; tO ~'~le _~;'.,) Or ~.1'1 t , extr meaelJre., ~l'ie
-- ~ ~ .t · 1
..... -:~ .. · :,.;...:. ~, ,~,~", ::'ay' ~.:.~I~ you;-l:ond issue J~ no longer ~a:,: ax~.-~mpl. So I
· i , .. , I
. . .-'. ~,:::''~ ac.':.~[,'.~rio bu. 1 who knows ~l',at's going to happen.
'~.:,..r ;..:-:;, L,.,:~n' They could put Tom Chaffee J.a jail.
.. ~.- T~,,~r, ~ kno~-; ~f they could put Tom Chaffee in jail
· i I ~
.......:.-:.-,:, --.r:'..::..~,.' T. 'Ln.i. nk St':; inLe'resting the IRS I)olie';r':,.c [t~at they shottI-:'l
· _ .%1 · j. I, _
· ' ~" "~!,¢.f:!; ].ct of ti cam~: about [)ecausr-: of thc, percaJ, ved or
i ..... j..I. *
-.' . .... -' ...-.,,.,' ,. ";gove. rnments where they would go out and they would .tssue a
· ' .... ~k, Pay
..' ::-.':;:-'. '_.;, ;!.th', :.., C ..... '. 6.'~,¢ ~..:.};-n ~.2~ and ~Ltst.
"' '" ......... . *tt'' ¢~r~ance, their city tl~,.,-",, way
;: : - ..- 'ii,, ,;..i. ~; ¢ ,. ·
· '.' .: . :' . : -. 7'.,. ':-:-:.." l'h:'~rr city ,:l',a( ~ay. Not spend the mon:::y for 3 years.
"'..:.'./::. '~.,..?n:..:.:l the ~-J.r,dou ~ .1...itt].~ bit and moved .it from 6 months no~ to ~
-'" -... .,-;: i::ov,'_n~ ~'.,~ thc right direction now with a little more ~,~nz.y. 6
' ;.'.'.-," .;iL'L;ii'~J,g :~.J'io f.i~.'O yOl& [1eVe tO spef~d the money. P'r'oceeda of the
-- .r . h~
; .... ;.,'.'~ d t~'''''
....... ~ ,,of~r;y u.'LthJ, n t first year issuance, you avoLd the
. ~ _ . .
.
.... :;.._ .:;'...'.-.- '-_':- .::'.,:: i 'T on ,.~ w~ 9et J.~]tt) futu~'e o'r for~ard ].ookif~g
" .~;': %:~:'- ~"", '.,,. coff, mef'i~ .is about financial poi. icy The City's
'" -. .,~ I.:.'. ,~;n,:..t qu,'=t~,~.y job conduct.lng f[nancia~ al'fairs of the. c~ty. To
.... ' '.:--. :::: ;-'tnt ,.r,,-;:.,'_:tj.c'.3s ~ro carr'£ed forward, we recommend that thc
"' ~.'"".....:' .'.,:' .[!,i'.~..nme'r,[ ¢ 'f~nan(':&a~ man~gemel~t ¢.o~&cy. sach a policy ~ou].d
....... -*'~no the. fin;tncia.[ alfa;rs of the city ~ financial.
.. : C';.].'.;.:.'.. .' ,, ;~:,'.-,",' .......
· ~-:':'". ~'.'.,: .: :.:..' '>'pi,;~;),y ~nr.'.ludes s~ch t. hi. nes ;.~s target of fund balances.
,:.- .. .,° .i.,.~ t. 1 ....~¢,
.... · .... ,c.,:.o ~ho[t]..d be. k~ha.t aT'e the ~nvestment policy of the
· '. ' · '~ I Iljl... f ? I. ,I' ..L .
· .,.: ,,,,.,.'. ..~.nd .;.~we'r 'revenues should be as ,.~ percentage of the
....:" .: ..~,....-..'-~; ~1:;('.. ;ncluded could be a cap£t,~l purchase plan for the next
. ...,":-;. ~hc .~dv,~n~.,~g~....-. of having such a policy, it serves as an indicator that
..... ..... ....... ..:,-. ,::,'. ;;f. ~.l,'-.:v f.Lnanc[~l destiny. ~n established procedure uJoLt]d
'. -~;:.;-.:r,:;'-.;,':'. r~;~;,i-c, c',~.?c~.~,.i.o]~a or} tl',e same issues in the futLtre. So once a
""" ' ~ " :f" " ' t
,.., . . ,)r:~:nme:=; difficult, to char, ge It protects c, gall]S, radical
..''. - ,:...'v,'..,',... ~),~ .-, DoaJ-d tLtrnove;'. So once a po]ic?-¢ ir, pi. ace wtth a
" . .... .:'.' -"'' a!.',:..~ aoi-~ .J~.[fic:l[1 f. to lead a city doun a bad path. Th~
·" . .,..i'.-'..!:. +":; Oll'f' .'~','Of' ~.
~ , ,.i/ ~
'...'~: ,,'.,-.. ,:,nc otl,~r thing. One o'f the things that is very effective
· _ ._ I ~ . ..I ...~ ·
,.- ...-::~, :., ...... ;,,,:~1-,~, [:~ Lhal. :f you, let's say you g(.'-t this
'' '~', .',":r-ov:.'.d c~ yoL, r ~pJ.l~J. on and 7:;u got the 6FOfi certificate a~d you
j .i. ~1 ;,1, .
.:-~'.. ..:, ,'u:-.~?k uit' yo~ f.tnan¢~al management po~Jc:y. That te~,.~
? ~. . I .~ L
.....-..:~... :::. ~nd s,.a~dard,..~haL they oan expeot ~ou to cio ~n the future
.... · ',~'??: ~n ,.h~.~ aoonom~. Tt~ose e~ements pu].~ together and make
... -.-'~< .... · ~S~,c::-..,-,,.;: ,~.. ,~;~. raLings. ~hat ~e're telling ~ou to do here
"' .. :,,.-.v- "']:,:;~ ;:h~.~t ~oLt'V~ a~read~ been doing. 3ust p~tt~ng ~t ~n
~ . . . I.I..-4 ·
;..,,, ,.s '~:..-. what ;~. stand for. The elements that. I talked about before,
'. .- - ,', ¢~ .:. ,.'. ,". i : ..': i:.-'ac~c.e~ to avoid. It's basically putting some sentences around
-· '.~..-~,...'...:,~:--'~:, · r' j~.r~ .... =ludes to the next comment about certificate of achievement
· . -11~
.... · ...: ..... .~n:::,~ ~ financZal reporting. What the certificate really
' I mm ...., .,:.C.':: i'",,,(.,.:.~':m;eep,ng' ' ' ; Seal of Approval . The award signifiee that the City
' '. .-.-:;~' '~"?~:_ . v.,ith a].l reporting requirements of generally accepted accounting
: · -~;~. ;:'~. :~)tpp~em.~nt Fequirement~ of government accounting. So ae Cliff
., . , .' L~. CG
.-. c .: ... r,:~, j, yo~ do 3 things. Your f~xed ~ssets, Xour f~nanc~aL m~n~gement
· ...'~''-'? .:.7, d ;..:.~' c~rf.~fj, cate of excellence, the ~nsuer Ls rea~X ~oneX because
"'-:... :,:,:,n;/ a-~,,~,~,.,,.,, CYom the ~ouer ~nterest r~tes on Xour bonds.
-'" :'".-,,', .7,'i,nson' Who J. ssues this certificate and what does it cost to get
· 'Z' ': ' . I ,~
"'" ~' "'.::.~"',~a: The government Finance Officer's Association issues the
· "~'":.~'.:-. ~r~¢j ),on turn j.t Jn ~ th~nk ~eu pay about $400 O0
...- .',:7,: :.~,rl what h~ppens ~s 3 ~ndependent reviewers ~eek zt yeur report and
"- .:.--;;:.¢,-:~ ~.T to ~ chock~t. Those 3 have
....... ].:--~.'~ -lc. ' ~
... just what the mlnlmum required is but it truly is excellent.
· ':,.'" - :.::,si~,~ above and beyond what just what you have to do. There lsa lot of
: ~'~.. :i:.:s! information that has to be put Jn there and that requlres ~ome work.
... : .... ::-:': ,0. ,.~.,_~L~d trar, sm~tt~L Letter that has te be ~n there. That's
' .:r :.[,:~, ~,t~t~ of NatJ. on speech from your finance officer and your City
=.-..:..~er. The]. becomes ~ uery good PR and marketing piece that's in the annual
· .-t. ~ch tike a management's discussion and analysis that's ina corporate
',:,-'.:'.~,I r-p. ort. So it is effective and it just add~ a lot of polish to the
:'".t,:',',',:t. ion. p~rtlcularly when you're preparing jt and giving it to ~omebody
: .:',..~ide o. this area 11ke zn outside bond agency and that type of thlng.
-~ .. Zi-m J- , ~... ~ t~t-h~ ,~
..... ' ..... ~,,~., ~0~
· : :., .. ~t .'.~zgh+ help us by the way in our application, Deloitte has how
,., ..... .,: r..,-, '~,s,... ~-ev~e~:ing staff?
"i:"' ;'-:.: ." ~::'~a~,' We. have 2 in our office and our certificate clients of
"':,',"., .... '-~.:.c..''-~-;~ "h~r_:. o are 12 other clients all do have the certificate so I know
.".:; '..',;, -set it. Tl,at',.-~ not a factor. Now don't think though that you get the
..-. '":F',:.-'..:._~ ..~;~d ti'~e.r~ .if the Council doesn't balance the budget and the other
.- .'....-' ~' .~., .~
, ..,::~.-.. ;':h,~t you've been doing, that's not going to help your bond rating.
"'.: -''77 he, vt tc stay the co~rse that you're on right now. We've had excellent
...::-..:'.-.~ti..);',, .'-f *~-~.,.,-.. st~,ff ~nd one other thing that audltors have to communicate
""',: "it" '
,.. ~. Caur, a~.l,:~ now because we have to treat you like the audit committee, is
~I:.'..'.L,d'.'.!:.:;;-':': h~v.?, s schedule that we call a past adjustment schedule where we
' s:'.': cr:'-or.--~ :h~ ,}re ir, m~terial or judgment differences or things that the
... -.:~ t..-,..d mt::. they ars Jnmaterlal so we don't want to record them. We had none
· ..'.f ".'~os~..tFi, e~ of things here. We had no significant differences. That's a
.1~ ~¢
.... ·-.'."~.'nt ,.':oi;,.~nic~tion ~h~n maybe you've had in the past but all auditors are
''':..-"-'.....:; ",~._ ':-,;/ t':-,e.~, no~. gere there any judgment differences? Do we th~nk a
,.:.'.,!."..' si',(:, Icl haue b~en ~ higher number or a lower. Even if it wasn't material,
........ ,..',. yo:.t ~s the audit committee because our report is to the City CounciZ.
~... ? ~ .
, ..7 '..e..i ..:~ ~.~an,~gement ·
City Co~nci]. lieeting · J~l~e 25, 1990
Councilman Workman: Well I guess I'd like to applaud our crack management staff
for a job well done. We car~ sleep comfortably tonight.
Mayor Chmiel: Any other- questions? I guess I would second what you said Tom. I
think staff has done a groat job on all aspects of running this city. The only
thing I can see as you've indicated is just a little polish in what we've got.
Formulate it just a little bit better.
Councilman Johnson: Fixed assets.
Mayor Chmiel: That's right. Yes. The only othe'r' one thing I saw.
Councilman Joi',l~son: That takes manpower. Both of those are a question of
manpower' and pt'iorities. Establish your priorities that we want these two
things done and approk, e the manpower to do it. Or' womanpower.
Hayo'r Chmiel: That's rigl~t. If there are no othel' questions. Anyone else?
Don ~shwo'rth; I would like just to thank Jean and Tom for the work they've done
this past year. I think you look back at some of ~he statistics of the number
of people in typical departments, I do not think that you'll find any city of
o~r size having the numbe'~- of employees that we have. In other words, ue are
far below any type of other cities in the number of employees and yet year in,
year out we have virtually no errors coming out of the finance department which
inc].udes a large task for special assessments and utility.
Cliff Hoffmar,: ~ lot of people don't realize even for your size you do have a
lot of activity going on here because you're growing. It's a lot easier to run
a city that's Z4,000 but it has been ~4,000 for lO years. It's also a lot
easiew to be on the board.
Mayor Chmiel= Very good. No other discussion. Is there a motion? 0~" is there
one required?
Don ~shworth: None is 'required. We will be coming back with trying to put into
place some of the recommendations that have been made by the auditor's officer.
~t least where we stand on each of the items so Council can expect that in the
future.
Councilman Johnson' There's a thing about arbitrage in here. Approve f. he
Deloitte proposal to complete arbitrage is recommended.
Don hshuorth: Right. Did I include that as a part of that item or is it a
separate item on the agenda?
Councilman Johnson: On item 5, the last sentence.
Don Ashworth: You're right. So staff is making a recommendation that we do
employ Deloitte to carry out the arbitrage calculations as requlred by the
Federal Government in accof'da~ce with their proposal whlch has been att~clled.
Mayor Chmiel: Motion?
Councilman Workman: So moved..
2O
City Council Meeting - June 25, 1990
Mayor Chmiel: Second.
Councilman 3ohnson: At that little cost, it's not worth going out to try to
find a better bid that's for sure.
Councilman Workman moved, Mayor Chmiel seconded to approve the Deloitte proposal
to complete arbitrage. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE 63.7 ACRES INTO 159 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS LOCATED ON
THE WEST SIDE OF COUNTY ROAD 17, 3UST SOUTH OF LAKE SUSAN HILLS 2ND AND 3R0
ADDITION, ARGUS DEVELOPMENT.
Paul Krauss: The applicants are requesting approval to subdivide out 159 single
family lots without outlots to be dedicated for park. This is the fourth phase
of the Lake Susan Hllls PUD. The plat's average lot size is 14,700 square feet
with over 50~ having 15,000 square feet or larger as required by ordinance. The
plat's generally consistent with the approved concept, PUD concept plan with
changes stemming mostly from issues connected to topographic concerns and poor
solls that were uncovered. Also thls phase has 4 more lots than was originally
proposed but conditions have been required to insure that when you take the
whole PUD cumulatively, that the gross allowable number of homes, whlch I
believe is 411 for the entire PUD won't be exceeded. The street layout is
generally acceptable. Streets w111 be constructed in a phased program. To
insure that everybody's aware that streets will be extended as they move into
neighborhoods and buy lots, we u111 have streets paved up to thelr end. There
will be barricades. There will be signs on those barricades that say the
street's to be extended. In the short term though, the street layout, the
phasing layout makes pretty good sense and doesn't leave us with extraordinarily
long cul-de-sacs. At least we can 1lye with that situation. There are some
road grades in excess of ?~ which is the Clty standard. We're recommending that
the plans be revlsed to eliminate those. Grading wlll be significant. We
belleve lt's generally reasonable. Although we note that some additional
gradlng detailing is required on both the gradlng plan itself and related
drainage issues. Lots 11 and I3, Block 4 contain a steep wooded ravine that is
generally found in this area over here. Slnce it is a wooded ravlne and slnce
there are soils issues associated with it, we're recommending that the plat be
revlsed to pull the homesltes back from there. That can be done. You've got to
massage the plat around somewhat. It will look a little different in that area
but we think that lt's worthwhile to preserve that feature. We're also
requesting a tree removal plan so that we can attempt to save trees that are
widely scattered around this site. Host of the site's been actively farmed and
doesn't have a whole lot of vegetation on it. The applicant presented the plan
to the Park Board wherein they were offering basically a larger amount of
acreage than had been originally proposed in the concept. In exchange they were
looking for some concessions on the park dedication fees that would have been
assessed. The Park Commission determined that the additional open space was not
suitable for park due to soils, grades and drainage lssues. They were wllllng
to accept it as park however since it was adjacent to other land that they were
going to accept but they recommended that no reduction in park fees result from
that. Details regarding drainage and the park continue to be worked on between
staff and the applicant. We've got a goal of insuring that there's good access
into the park and that the land is as useable as possible. The Planning
Commission recommended that the preliminary plat be approved. Staff also
21
City Council Meeting -. Jun,,.-.~ 25, 1990
recommends approval with the conditions as modified by the Planning Commission
,'~ncJ Ol.ttl[n~.d ~n tl',~ st~ff report.
Mayor Chmiel'. Okay. Patti, is there any reason why, even though preliminary
coming in is riot signed by a PE?
Paul Krauss: None that I'm aware of. Maybe the applicant can explain 'that.
We'v:; be~:;n workil,g witl~ a registered engineer on the plat.
Mayor Chmiel: I often times think that that's a requirement even in a plat. To
know ~.h,.~t there is, that being done with tl'l~t PE's number attached to it as
indicated. 6entlemen, do you have any discussions as to what Paul has indicated
thus far? Arlyolle wishing to ~ddress it? Just state your nanle please and where
you're located.
briar, Olson: Thank you Mi-. Mayor. Mayor, members of the Council, my name is
Brian 01son. .T work with Argus Oevelopment. Joe Miller Homes is the home
buJ.]der and he'll be the home bt.tllder throughout this whole 159 lots and will be
phased at app'~'oximatoly maybe 3 or 4 different phases over the next 3 and 4
years. I've got a few points to klnd of go over on a couple of the staff
recommendations and maybe we can have a little more discussion on the full
meanlng of them. Paul, is this the same staff report the~ as the Planning
Commissio~? So it's al! the same recommendations?
Paul Krauss' Well there's one modification Brian. Condition 9 was modified by
I:l-,e Plailning Commission sucl~ that the applicant shall provide calculations for
City Englr, eering Oepar[ment to demonstrate that the ponding area on Blocks 5 and
~ with%n thc parkland meets the 100 year storm.
brian Olson: Okay, as long as we're talking about that point there. It notes
here in the st~ff report thaL they would 11ke to see the holding pond located in
tho north part of the proposed park area. Where itls rlght now as far as on
the plan, it's in the lowest portion of tier; site and I belleve when the original
PUB was approved, it dld go through the watershed dlstrict and they concurred
with [hat loc~tion. We would prefer ~.o keep it iii that location. We in fact
did meet wlth the. engineering staff !a:3t week about that and they seemed to
concu:- also thaf. that's the best loca[iol~ for the pond. So I'd like to
recommend that that condition be changed to allow the park [o be located as ls.
COUrlcilman Joh~uon: Thi~ doesn't say it I, oves anymore. The new condition 9
doesn't say what the old condition 9 dld.
Brian Olson: Okay.
Gary Warren: Mi'. Mayor, the engineering position on the matter as conveyed by
Char-le~ Folch, our assistant who was at the location o'F the pond, he
a,:knowledged 'that the location of the pond for the north area but it was
conditioned that there's ~ few concer-ns that we had that had to be addressed by
the develope'~'. First of all was the 100 year ponding limits. That was the
conditJo~ you mentioned coming out of the Planning Coiomission as far as
calculations for (hat. Tha( needed to be deflned so we could determi]~e the
propo:.~ed of' (he impact on the proposed trail system for the park and second was
an erosion control plan to dea_l with the overland drainage from the storm sewer
outlets at the nortl~ end. Finally was a culv~..,rt would need to be designed and
22
City Council Meeting - June 25, 1990
constructed under the proposed trall to connect overland drainage so they're all
kind of interrelated but I don't want the £mpression to be that there's a blank
check that engineering has wrltten off on the locatlon for the north slde. There
are some things that have to be dealt w£th here first.
Brian Olson: That's correct.
Paul Krauss: If I could expand on that too. There's a very real concern with
the park and how it functions and that's why this issue's been raised. The pond
that's being proposed by the applicant is down in there and most of the park
property, active park area is down in here. What's happening though is that the
pond in thls location, if lt's not designed appropriately, makes thls area
dedicated park property inaccessible. If the flood balance on this thing is too
hlgh, the trails that are going to run around there connecting the two parts of
the parks and different parts of the subdivision, they're going to be
impassable. That's why we have a real concern wlth how that drainage ls
handled. We had originally proposed it being up north there because that
lsolates that pondlng area and allows for a continuous park. The dralnage ls
the key relative to the recreational use.
Brian Olson: And I agree with that. We worked it out at the Planning
Commission and Park so that we are going to have those trails out of the water.
Mayor Chmiel: One of the problems I have with that, these last rainfalls that
we've had I've had too many calls at my home at different hours of the night and
day coming out to say, come and see the amount of water that we have and where
we have it. I think that's something that really has to be addressed.
Brian 01son: We'd really like to have a useable park next to our homes also.
Councilman Workman: So you're agreeable for it to be located on the north side
then?
Brian Olson: We can't. If we have to move it to the north site, then we still
have to build a pond in that location because that's the lowest part of the site
and the watershed district is going to require lt. As a matter of fact, I can't
even get all the storm water drainage off of this property up to the north part
of the site.
Mayor Chmiel: How's that golng to be addressed then?
Gary Warren: Well the calculations and such that need to be provided for us to
evaluate it is the crux of that.
Brian Olson: See what we talked about at the Planning Commission and then also
last week was the fact that the bounce area, the 100 year flood area can be a
rather unusual shape. It doesn't have to be rounded like a park and ue can keep
it away, or a pond, and we can keep it away from the edges where the trails are
planning on going. The very center there of that proposed pond area, it's
somewhat shaded there I guess. That's about all the bigger that pond ls going
to be. It does not go way out into the area but the 100 year flood would. But
we're going to work on that with the staff to make sure that the trails will be
dry.
23
City Council M,.' -
e..i. ing June 25, 1990
CouT~cilman Workman.' ttou about the issue of making that north part, is that pond
goillg to out o'[[ ,them aRd BLlko two sections of the park? Zs tl~at what yell're
getting at?
Paul Krauss: Councilman Workman, that is the concern. Now it's really a design
problem at thio point and it's up to the applicant to demonstrate to us that
that's not 9oing to happen. If ~hey can do that, I guess we're comfortable with
it. If they can't, we're 90iflg to have to find another answer.
Councilman Workman: And until we get the proper data we can't even consider it.
Hayo'r Chmiel: Right. Okay.
Briar, Olson: Also, on condition number 1. It talks about all street stubs to
have d tempot'afy cul-de-sac. Some of our street stubs that we're proposing ar~.;
re.lat.ively short in length. Through the future phasing perhaps some of these
won't eve~ be 100 feet 1ong without even any driveway access out onto it. And
if that's the case, Z would hope that perhaps we cou!d just work with
engineer[ng department oi~ that portion of t~me recommendation here on the report.
Haybe leave it in his best judgment then as far as do ~e need a temporary
cul-de-sac or not on that.
Paul Krauss: We've discussed ti,at in house and if there are ir, fact no homes on
this stub :street, we'd want it paved up to the pf'operty line but you put the
ba~"~'lcade out at the street intersection to stop anybody from golng down there.
That would be ~tcceptab].e to us.
Gary Warren: As long as there's not a driveway access onto the street so they
ha,~'r~ not ,'~ flz!l street, we. would go aZong with that.
ftayo',- Chmiel: Staff is comfortable with that I guess. I don't have any real
problem.
Councilman Workman: You're saying, I'm not sure I'm clear what you're saying.
You aren't talking about on the cul-de-sac situation. You're talking about on
the potential connection.
Gary Warren: This is where the future road would be coming with a subsequent
additiorl as Brian has indicated. So long as we don'L have a driveway...
Hayor Chmiel: Would you want to continue this out Paul.
Cottr, cilnlan 'Jorkm~n: On the no:-th side.
Brian Olson: On the very south there Paul, by the very southern cul-de-sac.
Paul Krauss: For example Lhere's a stub street and this one is here. The
street wou].d be extended up to thls polnt. All the homes are on this portion of
the st *"
rec.,, and ti,ere is ~ cul-de--sac there. We would want th£s paved which
would put ~ barricade out here.
Councilman Johnson: It's got to be obvious that the street is going to continue
there so people don't think they're on the end of the road and that they'll
never have a street Orl that slde of t helr house.
24
City Council Meeting -- June 25, 1990
Mayor Chmiel: Right. It eliminates a lot of problems as they come back.
Brian Olson: The other thing would be point number 8. There was a lot of
discussion about bulldlng tralls at the Plannlng Commission. Z think the
Planning Commission crossed out the paved portion of that recommendation. See I
don't know if you're looklng at the same recommendation that I am though.
Nayor Chmiel: I don't think I am.
Councilman Johnson: This still says paved and signed.
Mayor Chmiel: It does say paved and signed, yeah.
Paul Krauss: To the best of my recollection, that wasn't changed. There's a
reason for that and the reason is similar to the issues with road extensions.
Cltles have a dev11 of a time paving those trail connections at some point in
the future when the park is developed. What we'd like to achleve is that we
believe there's a connection right in here. That there be some paved access
with a sign that says trail for park access so that as homes are developed
around there, that those people are aware that that's the condition that's going
to be in there and that might have to suffice for several years until the park
itself ls developed by the Clty.
Councilman Johnson: Yeah, I discussed the park access on Chan Pond with one of
the neighbors that bought the house next to the park access and both neighbors
had sodded right up together. I said are you aware that you just sodded 5 feet
of city property. He said no. He had no idea. I don't which neighbor sodded
the park access but it'd be a few years probably before we can pave that access.
There's some more work to be done on the park before it's reasonable but those
two neighbors would probably have something to say about it when we go to do
that.
Brian Olson: Okay, as part of this recommendation in here it says paved and/or
signed so it would be okay if we just went ahead and signed those access points?
Paul Krauss: My conditions just says and.
Gary Warren: On page 10.
Paul Krauss: On page 10 which is the most recent one.
Councilman Johnson: A slab of asphalt going nowhere doesn't make a lot of
sense. If you had the sign at least there, the property owner can't say that he
didn't know that there was going to be a park access there. Even if the sign
said future park access. Or just said park access. As long as lt's a straight
shot. Now the one on Chippewa happen to goes so far and then turn and you
really have to know, when you're walklng on sodded grass, you don't know where
that turn is or you're off the city property onto somebody's private property.
Unless you bring a map.
Brian Olson: One of the recommendations here was to plat all the park area and
dedicate it over to the City. That is fine. We would prefer just to put up the
sign that would say that thls ls going to be a park area and it's in all our
promotional brochures and everything. And we are the only bullder in there so
25
City Coun¢i]. Meeting --June 25, 1990
we have. tighter control on what we say to people.
Mayor- Chmiol' ;l~ one section of this I read two different things which is one
page ?. It says paved and/or signed and on page !O it just says paved and
Gary Warren: Page 10 is the cor, solidation.
Nayol' Chmiel: That's correct. Right. I think what thc;y're looking at is
batsical].y having it as such. ~s being paved and signed. Unless Paul, do you
have any other?
Counc:i].ma[~ Workman: !,Jell if it's paved, why does it need to be signed?
Paul K','auss: I gttess we've fought enough of these battles over the years to
possib].y indulge in a little bit of overkill. But clearly the intent is that
people kr, o~: about what they're buying and .if you feel the sign alone does it, we
could live wi. Ih that. We want something there on the ground. That's our
pro [et'el'ice.
Councilma~m Johnson: It certainly does a lot more then we're got now at some of
t hess ] ocat: J. on~,
gary Ha[-;'-eil: I would concur Hr. Mayor that the battles that we fight, even
tllough ua have sign:s and easements when we go to pave something, usually it's
overwhelming sometimes. The surprises and the position that staff gets put into
to ti'y to g~l. these in. I would also opt for paving.
Brian Olson; Mr. Hayer? Hay I ask Ol'l some of these other parkland connections
that are to tho north. How far as we talking about pavement because once it
does 9et paved a l~ttle bit, you're citizens are going to want to see the 'rest
of tl,e ira:il !;wilt. So I guess I would just likr.; to know how faf' we're talking
~l)out.
Paui K~"attss: Well we're talking about stubs. Getting past the homes from the
public right-of-way. It':s the City's obligation to develop the park in whatever
timeframe the Clty can do that. Yeah, there may be a 11tLle bit of
disappointment that ~hat park is not built this summer or next fall or something
but I stl.]l think that's preferable to not doing it at all and [hen having to
f~ght f.h¢: Zr¢SuOG 2 of' 3 7e,~f'S from now when we're prepared to develop the
facility.
Gary Warren' Once you get past the lot depth, I think that's what we're talking
.',bout.
Mayor Chmiel: I think I agree with that.
Briar, OlSorl: As long as we're talking about some park issues. Before we can
F. rice out lots out here we really need ~o get what the proposed uses are going
to be in ti'mis pat'k and what the park plan is going to be. This is something
',hat we've requested for almost 6 mon[hs now and Z realize you want to see some
kin,.t or approval before you get int~¢ the real nuts ,and bolts Orl the park design.
Th~: one thing though as part of our grading contract we've got to rough grade
th.': whole p~rk. ~nd rJ. ght now perhaps we are going-to site grade that whole
26
City Council Meeting - June 25, 1990
park, or the whole property this fall and if we have to come back next year to
do some grading on the park. We've got to go through mobilization again on all
the equipment, we really need to get this whole project out there to kind of
balance out by ltself so we don't have to haul any dirt around. I'd really like
to I guess urge the City to get us a park plan as soon as possible. Also, what
kind of grading that we're going to be kind of talking about. That's a11.
Mayor Chmiel: Have we done that in the past?
Gary Warren: Park plans?
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah.
Gary Warren: Chan Hills 3rd Addition. Curry Farms. We have generated park
plans and I agree with Brian as far as the need to accurately define what we
mean by our grade because we've had some parks that have been left in a very
rough graded state.
Mayor Chmiel: And we should get back to'them with that.
Gary Warren: While we're getting credits, .we need to make sure what we're
getting.
Brian Olson: See we will have our final grading plan into the City I think
within 4 weeks. I guess just the last comment would be on condition number 17.
This has to do with street grades at intersections and this ls something that
Charles in Engineering and myself and our engineer and Dave Hempel talked about
last week. I guess Charles was wllllng to make some concessions to thls just
based on, we have a number of intersections that are so close together towards
the south part of our property there where it accesses out onto the county road.
If you've driven by the slte, you can notice that it reatly does kind of climb
up rather significantly. What Charles ls mentioning ls not any accesses to the
County that would perhaps be shortened from this condition but some of the other
ones. The T intersections. And I don't know if he's had a chance to talk to
Gary about this or not but what I'd like to be able to do ls at least this
condition is just be able to work with the engineering staff on
Mayor Chmiel: Gary, do you have any problems with that?
Gary Warren: I don't know if I understood all of the specifics but Charles has
left me documentation on the street grade issue that we were hold to the 7~
maxlmum that the City has. As far as the intersection and stuff, he didn't
elaborate although on a note here he said, all streets with a reduced 3~ maximum
and 200 foot landing area at street intersections.
Paul Krauss: I think I can add a little bit to that. I spoke to Charles about
that late thls afternoon. What he indicated to me ls, when you have a short
stub street over he)'e. What we're likely to do is put a stop sign over here so
that trafflc coming down to the County Road and then stop, thls being the thru
movement. This thru movement didn't need to maintain the 3~ grade but where
traffic ls comlng to a stop it dld so there ls some flexibility in the standard.
Wherever there's a stop sign, it's on that stop traffic flow that has the
flexibility.
27
Gary Wa'rrr. n: We need the landing zones where ~.ihe stop signs ar~; obviously.
£ouncil,~ar; Johnson: ! .se:.; the hardest o.a there is obviously the one coming off
of Power:; Blvd.. What's the grad~ on that one 'right now?
Gary Warren: 'J-~!: we';e ~>'ing w~; would allow a ?~ max. Ha will have to get a
permit from the County whJ. ch they will enforce their landing zone requirements.
Co[[ncJ]mar, Johnsom~: So we don't show, there's no street grades shown on these
maps we've got here.. Drawings we've got here.
Paul l<r.z~,s: Thane should be. Ther,'-; is a set..
Bi"iall Olson: There's only about 2 places in the plat where it was 8~ and there
war"c'- no grades over BY,. .So really the differerlCe be[ween a ?~ and 8~ is 1 foot
}:~:~i' I00.
E;ai'y Wafters: Me'ye gone along where we've got i;"ee issues and some other
envi'~'O~l~,(:l'~t~l concerns where we've gone to 10~. ~ sure you 'remember like Near
Nountaln. Some of those. 'Ce didn't have those i"eal lmpacts here that we felt
th:!: it uo~,.ld ba ~a'r'r',~nted ~.o g.'~ beyond tho ?k but ~ think the intersections
*.ha~ Orion is a..;!-:ing for us to conslde'r, we cer'talnly can work with him and work
our. tho:s~-', detail'.s.
Bf'i~'tn Ol:-,on: TI,e 'm-eason I'm asking ~l,ls is that we are 'rather long on dirt on
.~,. al! work. Tho l~s~ 9~'adi~]g that we have i~ the streets and then
also in the !nts'rsectiorms, that means we have to take down that hill even more.
Uu have even more dirt left over. Then ,~l:~o the County, we got an agreement
with ~.h~m for 110,000 yards to remove f~'om the site and the grading plan was
ba..;nd o~'~ tl:;:t ,.tied now th,-~y'r~; rcriigging. They would only like to do about
~0,000 ya'r'ds.
Have you talked to Hngot about dirt?
.P,l'iall O].$on: No i
Councilman Johnson: Talk to Eden Prairie landfill. I hear they're still buying
dirt.
Brian Olson: They tested us. It didn't quite have the fight amount of clay
center,t. A.tmost worked out.
Cu~tnc$.lman Johnson: ...buying at $4.00 cubic yard or something. Ludicrous
Orl~,n Olson: Now that was pretty much the only comments I had to make about it.
TI,e 1.,'~.st th.tl',d J.;-~ iv.st abouf, the park. We've heaf'd that the parks commission:
didn't fee]. that it was suitable for any kind of park use and that was a part of
thc s(,sff l epol,. ,.ll,'zt went to parks but there was quite a blt of discussion arm
Z think tho parks commission turned around and felt there was a lot of use for
thrzt ~r6a. The soils that are in there are not ~'eal bad so11. They're bad for
build.irlg construction but not for parks. As a matter of fact, there's quite a
fc~; of th,-.~ same soil.s '~.i~at u~; have irl owl-very western pa'ct of the plat that
~e've got to correct fei' home construction. If in fact we are allowed to have
28
City Council Meeting -- June 25, 1990
more than 159 lots here, we would have utilitized that central area more
thoroughly for single family residential but since we are limited at 159 lots,
we chose to well let's take a look at all the best soils and then work around
all that. We've had some trouble in our first addition out there. Gary's
probably aware of a couple of the instances where there was some construction
put through some bad soils and we got a couple problems with a couple houses.
But that's all I've got.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. The other question that I asked Paul, is there any reason
why the PE has not signed this preliminary?
Brian Olson: He signed the cover sheet though.
Mayor Chmiel: None of mine are signed. Not the ones at. least I have.
Brian Olson: Okay. Maybe in the rush of getting it in in a hurry.
Mayor Chmiel: I prefer seeing that signature on there when they take their
reviews of this.
Brian Olson: I'm sorry for that. I didn't realize that happened.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, the other thing that I see in staff recommendations was
changing the date as you had May lOth of 1990. It should be so noted that the
plans are 4-16-90. Thank you. Any discussion.
Councilman Johnson: Well I'm going to hit this one with something I've hit I
don't know how many preliminary plats with over the last 4 years. 3 1/2 years.
Right here in Section 18 of our Code it requires that flood plain areas,
location of wooded areas...and all that other good stuff be shown and once again
we got another preliminary plat in here that doesn't show the wooded areas.
You're talking about these wooded areas along these ravines and I don't see it
shown on the plat. I was fairly familiar with the area. Not even the cornfield
part of the area. I didn't realize it went into any wooded areas and reviewing
this without the staff getting out there, I never would have seen it. It
continues to upset me that plat after plat comes in where they conveniently
forget and thls may be, slnce it.'s such a small area, maybe a little oversight
but in other places it's been real convenient that the other plats from other
developers, that they dldn't show the woods that they're golng to clear cut.
Here again they've got these ravines that we're talking about trees. I'd like
to see the requirements very plalnly here in the book. I don't even 11ke to
look at them when they don't have the minimum requirements.
Mayor Chmiel: Can you see that that's also part of it? Anything else?
Councilman Workman: Are these streets yet unnamed or are they going to be
Street A, B and C?
Brian Olson: They're unnamed as of yet.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, and that at some time should be on the plat as well.
Councilman Johnson: Are you looking for Workman Drive now? Clark got his
Horn Drive in before he left. Chmiel Way?
29
City Council !'1eeLir, 9 --June 25, 1990
Mayor Cilmie].: No. No thanks. An;' other discussion? Z guess Z see all those
:.'.'p~ci.rju condJtion~.-a::J such with ! thru 23 with other, the specific ones of...
¢oun~..,.~,,l~,. ~ - We'd'kmax,' I 3Lts~, have one quick question. Number 13. Ail building
pef'f!lif$ wi!l, ~ tl~ink it's with patio doors ~s part of the building plan shall
provide ~', survey showing that a deck can be installed without a variance to the
:sr;[b,~ck. Doesn't .[t ~ound kind o~ vague? People are creative with decks.
P&U, 1 K'r'auss; Yeah, f. hey can be and I guess we're not trying to inhibit design
f'r'eedo~:~.
CouncJ.].mal; '.¢oi'kr, an' Are ue giving them a free permit ~.o build whatever they
uallt with thzu;
Paul K'rauss: No. No. We've had a number of problems in PUB's with decks.
Pn..a:--:,.tr~t tlJJ. ls being a 9Bed example. Since last fal1 ~ ve ch,znged tho
p',"ocs, dur'r~.s ,'~dminstrativcly where when patio doors are on a house plan, we look
at f.h,=. lot survey to make sur'e a deck can 9o in thez'e and if it can't, we tell
them ~o '.aka. out the patio door. ~ut this is just to clarify that issue and to
pu',.: tho d~volopcl' on notice that you have responsibility to give us this survey
i~for~:~atJoii uhensver you request a building permit. A standard deck is like 10
x ~..?. If somebody wdlli, ed to get moro exotic and do something larger, that might
not fit but as lo~9 as there was a legitimate use for that patio door, I guess
wn ~ould be satisfied.
Count:il. mar, Johnson: I mean if you only had 3 or 4 foot to the building setback
arid yOlt wanted to ,out in a door on there, it doesn't make sense. Zn fact I know
one that's that way. Pu[ in patio doors and then only had 5 feet. ~ctually put
,.x deck to the property lJ. ne boh.i, nd¢, privacy fence.
Councilman Uorkman.' Me. 11 I'd move approval with.
liayor ch,iisi.' Okay, with tl~.s, r evi.'_',ionc as we said on there.
Councilman Workman: With staff working with them on number 1, 4, 8, 17 in
add.[f, ior, f.o tl,e Mayor's comment on the dat~.,.
Mayor Chmiel' As a p'relimina'ry plat.
Councilman Workm-~n.~ Yes.
Councilr,,,an Johnson; I'I1 second [hat. I'd also like to ask one additional
que::;tiol,. Th~; :storm sewer designs, there seems to be a long ways down some of
these streets before they hit an lntersector 11ks between ~].ock 6 and ~ on
S(reet n. Water .'.joss ~ long ways. I see the engineer's left I~ere. It goos
the way, about 10 to !2 houses before it hlts a storm sewer.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, that's maybe something Don that you could write to have
Gary check.
Councilr:lan 3chl)sol): I nlean Lhat could be adequate.
Paul K'r'auss: In G&i'I?'S absence, it's something that we did note as well but we
wi].l get final design specs and ~)le7 wi].l have to justify that or put in
3O
Cit), Council Heeting -- ~une 25,
additional catch basins.
Brian Olson: Just to kind of follow-up on that too. You know the engineering
department did put me on notice as far as a real complete review on this whole
plat. They are really klnd of rushed on tlme and thlngs so they dld state that
just because of the approval as is and things, things are probably going to pop
up through the flnal plans and specs and thlngs and we're aware of that.
Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to approve Preliminary
Plat on Lake Susan Hills West PUD 4th Addition for 159 single family lots as
shown on the plans dated 4-16-90 with direction to staff to work with the
applicant on conditions 1, 4, 8 and 17 and subject to the following conditions:
1. Al. 1 streets that are proposed for future connection shall be provided with
a turnaround which meets city standards with a barricade and signage
stating that it is a temporary cul-de-sac and wlll be a future road
connection.
2. The applicant shall provide one tree per lot and additional landscaping
along the entrances and boulevards as part of the PUD approval and the
developer shall provide $150.00 per lot for landscaping.
The applicant shall provide a plan illustrating large areas of mature
vegetation located on the site. Areas of mature vegetation not impacted by
streets or building pads shall be preserved with tree removal plans
required as part of the buildlng permlts.
The applicant shall pull back the cul-de-sac servicing Lots 11-13, Block 4
to remove the bulldlng pads from the ravlne areas.
5. The applicant shall provide a registered engineer's report on soils,
footings and structural deslgn and a registered engineer's grading and
drainage plan for the City Engineer and Building Department approval prior
to lssuance of a buildlng permit on Lots 11 and 13, Block 4.
6. An amended preliminary plat maintaining with at least 50~ of the lots with
15,000 square feet or more shall be provided.
7. Designate the parkland as an outlot which will be platted as part of the
flrst phase.
8. All of the access points to the parkland between single family lots shall
be paved and signed that they are public access points.
The applicant shall provlde calculations for City Engineering Department
approval to demonstrate that the ponding area proposed between Block $ and
6 wlthin the parkland meets 100 year storm requirements and that there is
adequate room for access between the north and south park areas.
10. Park Access: The approved PUD plan provided access off of both looped
streets. Such continues to be required and should be shown as parkland
dedication, not slmply easements.
31
C;~,.? Cou. r~(:?.' [ Me:-.'.t ~ ~,'.2 .tune 25, 1.990
!1, T'r~i!s/Sidewalks: The development sha].l be 're:luired to provide trails/
side,.,Jalks ,?,s follows:
Fi. ye foot w.tde concrete sidewalks shall be constructed along thru
· '..;t'r~et.~ ,ts show~, o~ the attached plan. Sidewalks shall, be completed at
th~. time street impr,ovements are constructed.
:fi 20 foot t.~idc tt'af], easement along the west side of Powers BouJ. evar'd
sba~ ~ bo ,
:.,. ~led].cated fo'r fit(ute trail purposes
c. The above trails/sidewalks satisfy the City's trail dedication
requi',"eI, cnts and t!,erefove, no trail fee shall be chad-ged.
12. The applical,t will bc required to pay 50'4 of park dedication fees. There
~.i!! [)e ',',o t;'ail f~:e ','squired.
13. .~1]. buildir, d permits with patio doors as part of the building plans shall
Frovidc a survey showing that a deck can be installed without a variance [o
the setback.
14. The app!ican~ shall enter into a developme,t contract with the City and
provid:.: the. I'iCu~'..'5oaFy"¢''" finarlcial securities t.o gu'-arante,,; completion of tha
The applicant shall obtain and comply with all permits required by the DNR,
~ate'r'shed Bi:strict and Office of the Carvei' County Engineer.
16. The appl.i, cant's engJ. l~eer shall provide the Sit;' Engineer' with calcul&tions
verifying th,'.'. ::;~.or~ .-.:e~or, watermain and sa~itat-y sewer pipe sizing.
1.7
,~t Jn~.eFsect!ons ~here. the street grades exceed 3~, a landing zone with a
StFeCt grade of 3~. or !ess fo-r' a minimum distance of 200 feet shall be
!8. ~fter grading, all disturbed areas shall immediately be seeded and mulched
f.o prevent ero¢;J, on. ~J.l stopes greater titan 3 to ]. will need to be
stabilized :,¢tth ~ood fiber blankets or equivalent.
Type T.I c. rosion control shall be added along the proposed silt fence
adjacent to sediment basin and ;'avine areas.
20. ,t';l/ street a~,d utility improvements shall conform to the City's standards
for u'r'ban construction. Const~-uction plans and specifications shall be
submitted to the City El~gineeF for revie~ and approval.
The applicanf, shall reduce street grades to comply with City Ordinance
througl~cL.'.( [he development (,.:aximum ?~).
22. Prior' to .'t:::signing street names, the applicant shall consult with Public
23. Pal'k grading: The developer, at it's sole cost, shall grade the park areas
in ,"...¢:c.~r(J~-:;~,cc ~,ith a timetable and plans to be furnished by the City. The
32
City Council Heeting - June 25, 1990
City will develop park plans when the final park boundaries have been
determined.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
RECONSIDERATION OF A FINAL PLAT CONDITION FOR GREAT PLAINS GOLF ESTATES, DON
HALLA.
Paul Krauss: On July 10, 1989 the City Council approved the final plat for
Great Plains Golf Estates which basically was designed to create three 2 1/2
acre lots which are shown down there in the extreme southern end of this plat
and several large outlots. The plat was given preliminary plat approval in i987
under the old ordinance which allowed 2 1/2 acre lots. The applicant was
allowed basically to get hls foot in the door and reserve the right to plat
those lots. As you wlll recall, we've done this for a few other individuals as
well and I b~lieve he's been given a 5 year deadline to complete plattlng the
property. The 3 lot dlvlsion which was flnal platted ls the flrst phase of the
ultimate plan whlch was to plat 38 lots on 105 acres. I couldn't find a reduced
transparency of that plat but we do have a full slzed one over here that we
could pass around. This represents the ultimate subdivision t'hat was given
preliminary plat approval. Stemnling from the preliminary plat review, the flnal
plat requirement was to dedicate 27 foot of right-of-way on both sides of TH 101
which was deslgned to allow for future road upgrading. The applicant did not
want to convey that easement and staff wouldn't release the plat so the plat's
basically sat around for some tlme. At this polnt the applicant wants to
proceed with final platting or recording the final plat and is requesting that
that condition pertaining to the right-of-way dedication be removed. Staff ls
recommending that the requirement be upheld. Although no plans are in the works
to currently upgrade TH 101, both MnOot and city staff believe it's prudent to
reserve the right-of-way since road improvements are going to be necessary.
That's true basically wlth everybody concerned. I would polnt out that the
Eastern Carver County traffic study and the draft comprehensive plan
transportation element have both identified TH 101 as a problem area. The 38
lot subdivision that has been approved will increase local traffic. It wii1
create three new street intersections on TH 101 and also has many lots that have
direct frontage onto the highway itself. Thus, there's apparently to staff,
there's a significant benefit to be gained from the ultlmate improvement of that
highway for this subdivision. The applicant has indicated that he currently has
tree stock located in the proposed right-of-way area. There's a hlgh volume
well in the future right-of-way and there's also a portion of a building. Staff
does not object and I spoke to the City Engineer about thls. We don't object to
allowing these items to remain undisturbed within that easement area until some
polnt in the future that the road ls upgraded and then we'd 11ke them removed at
the owner's expense. But I'd have to point out that in all likelihood the
property is golng to be subdivided prlor to the hlghway being upgraded so most
of these things would be removed anyway. The well possibly not but again we
don't object to leavlng it in the right-of-way as long as it's clear that the
responsibility for their ultimate removal lies with the property owner. Again,
staff ls recommending that the right-of-way condition be upheld. We are w1111ng
to consider or have it approved with a condition that would allow them to keep
those facilities located in the Fight-of-way.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you Paul. Any discussion?
33
City COUfi(';.{.]. lq a ~ t .t r, .3 ~ ..l!~ne 2.5, 1990
Don t1~,].1~' Thank you itt. Mayo'r, members of the council, i'm Ben }.lalla. Owner
of l-tr, ll..~ Nui-.~;ef-y and tho propo~-~y owner which ar~.~ separate entities. Address,
6601 Mohawk Trail, Edina. As you kno~ ~e've been out here in the city slnce
1962. Bo~,:n op¢~;';~t.[~;o the n~rsery b~sirmess_ We are actually at this point onl>'
proposJ, ng tO begin the subdivision ~hich is three lots. I do not have any
problem dedicating the d~velopment for tha highway, the easement and so forth
adjacent to these lots that are involved in the final plotting. I do have a
pf'oblem ~ith giving the land on both sides of TH lot for plotting which may
may never b3 done. I don't know depending upon conditions ~hethe'r will in fact
do th~ comp!ot~ plotting. It is our intention to maintain lO acres in the
center for the nurse~y opeaation ~r,d not move out of this site completely. That
has al~y,~ been our intention. So to give up our ~el). ~hich is the same size,
~rt'J. gation ~el~ that you use. i0 inch. 400 'foot into the 2ordan. Very
expensive. Yo,z knobi the cost of replacin~ it. You install that type of
l-'OLt;'se!f. To give that Ltp in a pi. ese of 2roperty ~hich ~ill be used for the
n[trscl'y seems v¢~f'y difficutL for r,o to do. If ~e never subdivide anymore or
Flor al~y,~of-e i~ final plot program, it seems like it is asking a lot to be
subdividing and plot[lng 7 1/2 acres ar, d being asked to donate over 5 acres of
].and ~h.tch r,,~y ox may not ever be involved ~ith any additional subdivision. ~t
thc tii~o that that subd.tvision is done affecting those lots, [ can understand
aol';in9 for that property. Z have c, ha~'d time understanding it ~her, ~e aren't
~vnn do.i. ns th,~. al-e;,. T g~t~ss that's ~here ~'a coming from. Certainly it does
af'fect O~tf' tYarj:x. Zt takes one complete building out plus our puBp. Zt ~i~ go
right up ¢~djac:r~nL, eliminate a lo( of our parking at the nursery corner there.
~ny expansion to the high,ay I'm sure would not go to the ~est. Zt ~ould go to
the east. There ~ould be no reason to make that corner any ~orse than it
no~. So it seems at least on that corner ~here ~e ~ant to maintain our
ac:,'cs, 1:l',zt 'l:l~;~f.':; asking ar', awful lot. That's ~hef'e i'm coming from and asking
;t ]e~s't ;t this pein[ ~he~'e we are doing the final plot on the 3 acres, I can
understar, d that. 8ut or, thr; add:[tional, ~e should take it as each area is asked
for.
M,;.y~.r Chl:,.'c1: Th~rlk you.
Councilman Johnson: Where is your weil?
Don Halla: it. is right on the corner. Right about here.
COLt~,cilman Johnson: On the west side.
Don Hall~: It should be sl~own on the buildings and so forth should be should.
Mayor Chr,~1el' You're saying it's right about in here somewhere?
Don Halla: That's our pump building here. This is anothef' building right I',ere.
And of ~ouFse ~'f anything was to be done, the 'road would go this way. Now we
have reserved this outlet right here to straighten out the road in the future.
These ~re the 4 lots that malntaln the...
CoullciJman Johnson: You don't owr, thls side? Only up to here?
Mayor £hmiel: Right.
Co~znoill;~an .Johnson: So who OWllS the gully?
34
City Council Meeting - June 25, 1~90
Don Halla' It's actually owned by this house right here.
Councilman Johnson: Significant obstacle.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Paul, on all these accesses, has the State had a chance to
review this?
Paul Krauss: Mr. Mayor, that predates me but I've got to believe that they were
circulated a copy of that when the preliminary plat came through. They were
familiar with this when we raised the issue with them.
Gary Warren: The State responded with a letter.
Mayor Chmiel: They did? Okay. Is there anyway that we c~? accommodate that
well?
Councilman Johnson: This is just going to be an easement. We're not saying you
have to take the well down unless there actually is use of that property that
the State requlres it. You won't have to remove any trees. You can still have
access to the property. Use of the property until such time as the State comes
in and says we need to put a road through that area. And as you say, the
chances of the State expanding TH 101 to the west there is.
Mayor Chmiel' Very minute.
Councilman Johnson: Yeah. Ludicrous unless they move the entire thing over
which would destroy your entire nursery and there's no way that would happen.
Mayor Chmiel: No, don't ever say...
Councilman Johnson: Yeah, it's the State too. There's no logical way it should
happen.
Don Halla: The original reason for giving the property...State requires it.
The State has changed their attitude since then about doing it.
Mayor Chmiel: The State has been trying to push this off on the County or the
City. Neither one is accepting it.
Gary Warren: Mr. Mayor, if I could interject. There's no questlon I think in
staff's mind, and this is coming out of the Eastern Carver County Transportation
Study that unfortunately we're still walting for the consultant to wrap up here
but, and the State did address in their letter about the importance of TH 101 as
far as one of our few north/south continuous roadways. Albelt with all the
deficiencies that it has so I think that there's no question, at least in
staff's mlnd as far as the need to have the right-of-way out there. That that
road sometime in the future the City's going to have to be upgraded. Who does
lt. How long it takes, those are definite questions that we all are guessing
at. I think Mr. Halla does have a valid point as far as to extend the road to
the west would just accentuate the curvature problem in that area and to get the
54 feet for the added right-of-way and maybe take it all on the east side I
guess ls something that I would want to take a look at to see geometrically if
we couldn't survive and hold the west right-of-way line and get the additional
54 feet all on the east slde.
35
C.'.; ty Col{n,:-.'.' ]. H.:'_'¢.~ .'.l~,j J~,r~.: ;?5, ~ 790
~our, r.:.ilmar, ~of, nso~; Yeah, but 'that's not part o'f this plat. Right-or-way on
the eas~. s[,:!,';'s mot ir'~vc~tved in tl~iu ~.;,'C~F't for or, the r, orthet'i~.
Gary ga,-'rerl' 14e]t ue've got ,~ no~'the'~-,,'~ V there.
Hayer Chmiel'- Y,s~ah, o1'1 the upper portion.
Cc.!tncJl~ar, Johnson: ~lave we ~.alked to the State as to what they would prefer?
Paul Krauss: The Stat;; doesn't know. Yott know, clearly everybody...
CoLti~c. ilmml'l .lohm~:¢on: Or caf-e?
r:au]. :<;-~u:-::.:: '~.Jell I think they c~'~'e quite a bit. Staff does anyway. Everybody
a:; Oary ::;azo, acknowledges that TH 101 s extremely deficient and ulisam~-, arm that
;~or~;ebody s[,,ou].d do s:ome[hing. That somebody':: up in the al'r. The State didn't
:;~>, th,.t( they didn't want th:.: rLght--of-u~y and they thought, in f~ct they
it uo~.t.].d be a good icle~ to preserve the right-of-way for future improvements.
tdc'i'.:~ ~ot s~tte who'r; 9oj. 1'~9 to t~ke the bull by the horns on thLs one but clearly
~so~T~,~body hao f.o do ~t at some 2oint.
Jim St-'.!e',-'ud' My l:,Xl~e i:3 .Jim Stilerud and I live on Vogelsbur9 Trail which is
....... · ,. ft.t~-ther south on TH 101. I ye watched ~H i01 for many yea'r's
hei-(~. ~r~d T_'v:~. ::pok,,.*.n brLefLy ulth you about some of the problems. Z thlnk this
~s & c!as:~[r; s~t.,ta'[iof~ where you've got a problem that confronts you with no
f~nds rcal_ly earn,,;tFked for' ~ 10~ solutLon because there isn't
con:';t.~t[t~ncy down there, :~ith ~ problem and because there's no cormstltuency,
yOll'l:3 llOf lllOVe~] tO Cie) anything. Of nobody's mowed to do a~ything. In 1996
you"~-n 9clnO ~.;; h.~v'c [raffic dumping off at the and of Ly~an with 2~2
c:on~;(ructing ending there and as you pointed out, there is no other north/south
;,nd this :,~i.].] be a aa jot hassle for the C.i. ty at that time. I think the
opporLu~ity is now to deal with tl'~.~ issue ahead of time ~hen you have just a
ver'y 'row nLtmbo~- of property o~nef-s between Lyman and the bottom of the rivet'
b.].~.tfft-;. You maybe have ~0 property o~ner:; that control most el the ~and.
Thr:;'e'::: ]and av~ilal~J..e for sale do~n on ~9 ~'i91'~t no~ adjacent 'to 212/169 and
t.l~o Teich property ~s still ~tl~ .intact. Yo[~ have r~ot an approved overall plan
for 'thi.=: ~¢holo area ~:ld ;'ot.~'f'8 confronted with I th~nk good opportunity to do an
offic:ic~ mapp~9 process fei' the City to [~k= tho bull by the horns and do an
official r:~appJn9 pi'ocess for Lyman to the south ~ith just a fe~ property o~ners.
I acknowledge that you don't have a lot of people sc:f-eamil~9 J.n here today for
you to do that so it'u easy to put ~t off but ~[ you do put J.t off, then you
will hav¢-) all ~hosc people sci'earning. You viii. have 20 more acoesooo onto TH
10~ thai. FeLt I~av¢ to deal ~i[h and I think this is the [~me to take that action.
I guess I uo~ild ::;~lggas:t 12,?,ybo the ~ignment sho~ildn't b~ that at ali. ~ind~ng
througi~ th;:'¢¢: and that that easement amy be sort of besides the point or
superfluous, That it realty ought to t)a ar~other' ~ignaent. l'w; t~ked to the
SI.a(e. People ,~t the 9t~te and it's just as everybody kno~s. They don't want
to tak:~ the acLi~,n and they'll keep granting accesses. I don't tl~ink they'll
deny an ,~ct:a~cs on~o TF! 101 if there's a platted lot so the problem ~il]. continue
to .~:O~pO~ll~(.] tlR~;~S3 somebody does soaethino and ~ th~nk ~t's harder for you to do
:;omothir~9 i'[ you've got ~00 people hef-e screaming for a solution... This area
3~
City Council Meeting - June ZS, 1990
Mayor Chmiel: Jim, where are you located?
Jim Sulerud: I'm in south of, just up from the railroad bridge. There's a
cul-de-sac...and so we've seen trafflc lncrease over the years and I don't mlnd
that. It whizzes by me and it's going to continue to lncrease but I think
overall, that's another gateway to the Clty. TH 5 slts there, the gateway to
the City from the west. Right now the gateway from the south is miscellaneous
land uses down there that I don't know what the scheme is but I think a whole
new approach to TH 101 would be beneficial. I think the problem is there's no
money for acquisition but if the prlorlty were changed and their official
mapping, I think that would help the developers. Maybe the alignment is
entlrely outslde of thls right-of-way. The preferred alignment. I know it's
hard for you to respond. To me to say well yeah, it should be this way or that
but I thlnk the priorlty ls going to be immediately before the Councll and I
think it's important that you be looking ahead as well as just reacting to
thlngs that come in the door. $o I'll ¢ontlnue to be in touch and I guess on
this one, I don't think the right-of-way is that critical because I think the
alignment should be considerably different. I don't thlnk any improvement to TH
101 will be accomplished along that route.
Mayor Chmiel: Good. Thank you Jim. Do you have any comment?
Councilman Workman: Can we officially map something like that?
Councilman Johnson: We'd have to do some kind of study.
Gary Warren: We have to do a geometric study. That's the tough part of it.
There's an investment there to get the alignment worked out and the center 11ne
staked.
Councilman Workman: Well you and I have kind of talked about this and how TH
101 has kind of taken care of dangerous corner at a time. And that there's
$100,000.00 or so. There was $100,000.00 designated by MnDot at 14 and 101 where
ue were going to, where it's dangerous. I thlnk I even had the discussion that
someday thls would go over this ravlne somehow. Everytlme I drlve by there I
think of that and I think about that house that it would probably end up golng
through uhlch lsn't frlendly either. Then I thlnk we even talked about the fact
that that trestle, that brldge down there is going to come out. I don't know if
lt's golng to be replaced, uldened because lsn't that Hennepln County Llght
Rail?
Gary Warren: That's been, basically there's a tract useage agreement but the
right-of-way, the railroad basically is abandoning and it may at some future
tlme be a 11ght tall corrldor but wlth the flexibility of 11ght rail, as far as
grades and such, they can get by without having to have that particular
structure there so it would come down.
Councilman Workman: Is there a date set when that thing might come out of
there? It probably does a good job of slowlng people down the highway but
anyway, we've talked about every little segment of that thing and I don't know,
maybe we can flnd out, you can glve us a ballpark idea of what it might cost to
do so.
Mayor Chmiel: What is a geometric for that Gary?
37
~a'l'~ ~J(~'~",'°,'.'"!l] iL'::.': ;Ici¥-(.J ~o gU~S:].~ bLJL tO L~O a geomet¥'~c evaluation jus~ in this
corridor, we'd have to make :some ~ssumptions obviously ~t the J. nte'rsection of
Pione~¥ i~; a 'i:ouc:hdo;~l~ ,ooJ. r~'L arid maybe someplace Lo the .3oijtJ~ here, Dakota is
tl,e oL!,:::r to,_tchdo~r, i>oin! We're probably ].ooking ~lL .something, I would say
be~eerm maybe $I0,000.00 ~.n f'OLLnd numbers. You could get some geometric numbe~-s
put .tn thrcre al~d ther~ yoL~"r'e go~.ll9 to have to st~ke (he L~lignmel]t J. fm time field.
Somewhere's in that 'fLange Z suppose. ~ith the prellmlna'ry plat and Hr. Halla
pr'obabJ.y i"ememnbef'~s (bLs ~lso when we were showing lots up thel'e, we were
il~dicating th,,t where t~me Outlet B, where it's klnd of cross hatched there in
tJlat J. ns/de of thst turn ti'mere, we were lookLng for an area in there to put a
restriction on that !st ~s far ~s the potent.iai future right-of--way.
Gary Warren: To leave that option open so we definitely all along have been
t.h:inking, ].ike everybody you've got to get the kink out. and it's going to go to
the ~;ast. So in that regard I guess I'm not 'that.
CoLtlicilmsI; ~orkman: So we don'~, need the 27 feet SCl both sides?
Gary Warren: Well, we need to know where we would transition. You would need
sorer,, rlO,~i Pi,~neer T'r~ti].. You would s[,~rt with 27 but the geometric study would
'tel! re.ts ~her~ ~ou].d yot.t start transitlormlng to the right-of-way on the east
noL~(:~lman ~ohnso~ Dut Hr. :,a~la has to move forward ¢~nd we need to move
fof-war'(.I. We're (,~lking the easements and easements c~n move.
H,.~yo'r' Chmiel: Easements, can al. ways move.
Councilm~n Johnson; Especially wl~er, we'f'e talking easements along two outlets.
A,ld t. hese outlets are pdrt of the platting process. EveT~ though they're not
beirmg divided lnto single family lots at this point, you're platting this who].e
,~f-~¢t. These happen to be platted lnto huge lots. A Lot A and a Lot B. Or
outlets. Non.-bu~].dable o~ttlots So they ar~; p,~f-t of thls action and should be
considered. To get tl'mlngs golf, 9, Z would th.ink that ~e could 'Lake from some
poin~ ol~ t" .
,~e sou~.l] side here as the curvature sfar~., J. ll (I've 'road and eliminate
the 27 Foot on the west side up to a point ,~here acrose from out from the cross
h~,l:c[med 2if'ca there. I've kind of sketched a future road in (l'me~'e as just kind
of a se¢:t, of the pam~ts enginenrJ, r,~ type deal· Taken whef'e the curvature
currently turns f.o the west ~tnd make that a curvature s~art~ng ~o the east and
t!'~e~ ]..[ne it tzp ~ith maki~g an intersection north of (hat cross hatched area.
Th,'~t preservr.~s, take:s aw~,y ~ !o,t of that outlet or a lot of (he right-of--may on
the west and right through the area that you're most concerned about and still
preserves i~ on the nortl, comJ.~9 dowll the road quite a ways on the north. If we
could. ,~o¥'k ~,ut :¢o,,e kind of arrangement like that and still preserve adequate
f-J. ght-oF-way. I'd lJ. ke t~ look ~lt pLtr3Lti]lg that officia.l inappin9 proc:es3. This
J.s sometlmi]~g I've liked [o have .looked aL ,~ long (ime. We looked at it a little
bit (J{ll-~.~lg [I,e preJ_im~.naf'y pla~f, ing.
Councilman Workman: Well, so what can we do tonight I guess?
Hayer Chfl~iel: I tl~ink wh~t we've got Lo do is to just move...
38
City Council Meeting - June 25, 1990
Councilman Workman: The Attorney has a solution?
Paul Krauss: No, the Attorney has a problem.
Mayor Chmiel: I don't know how we go about both at the same time. It's almost
next to impossible.
Roger Knutson: I was just going to point out in terms of procedure. This is a
request to reconsider so your normal procedure is to vote on whether you should
reconsider it flrst. And if that motlon to reconsider passes, take action at
your next meeting. You can take action at this meeting if you determine your
procedure that your actlon ls not 11kely to affect anyone else. If you
determine it's not likely to affect anyone else, you can take action at thls
meeting. Otherwise you're supposed to...
Mayor Chnliel: I don't thlnk we know that.
Councilman Workman: It could affect somebody on the east .... plans to move the.
road.
Councilman 3ohnson: It's taking the assumption that we're going to put a road
through somebody else's property. That's what this would be doing. We'd be
making that assumption that we're going to go through that property to the south
of the cross hatched area.
Councilman Workman: With the amount of questions, shouldn't we vote to
reconsider but pick it up at the next meetlng?
Mayor Chmiel: I thlnk that's something we should have to make a polnt of order
right now as to whether or not we should have any reconsideration of the flnaZ
plat condition.
Councilman Johnson: I thlnk we definitely should. Mr. Halla has some valld
points that need to be considered.
Councilman Workman: I would move lt. To reconsider lt.
Councilman Johnson: I'll second.
Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to reconsider a Final Plat
condition for Great Plains Golf Estates at the next City Council meeting.
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Councilman Johnson: Should we have some klnd of proposal for our next as to
what should or shouldn't be?
Mayor Chmlel: I thlnk we have to revlew it to see whether or not there's any
impact on anyone else adjacent to there and what that impact is and that can be
a point of discussion. Once we know that, then we can move from there.
Councilman Johnson: Because we had to notify these people before the
preliminary plat, should we do a notification of the landowners within the area
that the plat's being reconsidered?
City Cour, c.f.] Heeling June ?.5, 1.990
I'ia>'o)' .C hill {e.]. ',
COLtnCi.lman Jol~n::o~: I dor,'t know if 'there's Et legal 'r'equirement.
Paul Krauss: h:¢ Counoilmaf, Johnson points out, no. I dorl't think there's a
lega], reql~irenlent unless _'ti raises the issue tibet Roger' cited but if you're
lookirl9 aL :-;hilling the road i.o th.'~ east, that represents a departure from the
::,i-slim.;.n~¢y plat and I guess this property...
Mayor Chlaiel' Y.?.~;h, I think the adjacent property owner should be ~otified.
Councilman 5ohr,son: During the preliminary plat, that cross hatched area was
talked about as an area where we planned on putting the road eventually. That's
why it's cross hatched on there.
Gary bJarrel~' That was a very crude e;stimai:e without the benefit of any
geometric designs. I guess __,'d SLtgge:~t that we consider, because that is a
question hrzrn ti,ak, wa'r;-?, all kind of sketcl',in~j ar, d guessing, that we talk to
Mt~Oot to see if they'd be willing to give us some geometric thoughts on it. I
don't know if they would or wouldn't. If not, that we are ourselves I guess do
some crude eva].ua'tion of that ai-¢a ~o see really what we might have to do.
Iqayor Cl',laiel: You could even check with HnOot to see if they would of' they
wouldn't as you indicated.
Counc:i!m,~n Johnson.' Could w(:, just another thought to toss out to tl~ink about
over- tl~e next couple oF weeks, look at approving the plat without the easement
but with the condition that no buildlng pei'mlts would be authorized untll we've
had a chance to look ,.~t tl~e e~sement and decide which easements would be
l'~ecessary [of- TH 101 lmprovemer, ts. ¢o that he could get into marketing these
lots or yeti'ye already got a bLtyeF.
Don Halle: Actually we can do it one of two ways. We're going on the second
way wo~ld be kind of ari. dicu!ous way to do it. Hy sol~ is moving a house onto
this lot. Okay, in so doing we are forced ~o take Lot 1 there and plot it as
enveloping the whole 50 acres.
Councilman Johr, son: Oh, so he's moving a house on now?
Don Halle: Riol,t.
Councilman Johnson: Not 'ti~at blue one From TH 5 is it?
Don llalla: Ale. It's Kirby Puckett's house that he didn't want. It's coming
out of Edir, a. It's ,:~ real nice house. .~o that's going to be moved on Lot J. but
~t i. his po~n( for tho bullding permit for that, i. hey're having to because of
delays, look at it as a 50 aci-e lot.
Councilman Johnsoll: Put itl a metes and bounds and subdivide it later?
Don hshworth: Exicting parcel.
Cour, c(lman Johnson'- 01~, existing parcel.
4O
City Counc[l Meeting - June 25, ~990
Mayor Chmiel: I think we've probably moved on that portion of it.
Councilman Johnson: Yeah. I was just glving an idea to how we could move it
along in a week.
Don Halla: Is there anythlng we could do along that line?
Mayor Chmiel: I don't know if there is anything right now at this particular
time other than the fact of the adjacent property owners notifying them before
we do anything and I think they're entitled to that review and I can't see how
we could really.
Gary Warren: As long as Mr. Halla has an alternate plan that seems to work wlth
his schedule.
Don Ashworth: July 9th? Can we meet that timeframe as far as notifying the
neighbors?
Gary Warren: I'd say that would be our lntent. That wlll depend on MnOot.
Councilman Johnson: And the notification to the neighbors, basically could very
easily descrlbe that we're trylng to change one condition of the flnal plat as
it refers to TH 101 easements.
Mayor Chmlel: Okay. So you'll do that and take care of that notification.
ACCEPT FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR UPGRADE OF COUNTY ROAD 17 FROM TRUNK HIGHWAY 5
SOUTH TO LAKE DRIUE WEST, CALL FOR PUBLIC HEARING.
Gary Warren: Mr. Mayor, Don Ringrose is here from BRW who will give us a brief
presentation here. Overview of the project at your discretion.
Oon Ringrose: I can be brief. I can be long. Whatever you want.
Mayor Chmlel: Thank you. Let's, I think we've all probably looked at this
rather extensively and maybe you can just briefly.
Don Ringrose: Okay, I think first for a couple of questions I think we need to
answer collectively to move on. One is you recall there's two alternatives
presented, A and B. We've recommended A. The shorter one pendlng some declslon
on the extension of Lake Orive to the west. So with your concurrence, I would
think we would at thls polnt move ahead only with Alternative A. There's no
purpose really served in presenting Alternative B at a public hearlng and when
Alternative B becomes reallty, if it does, that we'd have to go through
appropriate hearings on newly affected properties at that time.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, Alternate B is the one that's about $600,000.00 more.
Don Ringrose: Right. The other question before you tonight, as you indicated,
ls the establishment of a public hearlng which ls recommended for July gth.
guess with that I would be glad to do an overview for you if you'd like.
Mayor Chmiel: Please.
41
Ci~.? Cour, cf.! Me.'sf. in9 ~ June 25, 1990
Do]~ RJ. ngrose: Fir~:t ! think you"re familiar witl, the pi'eject area of CR 17
south of TH 5. It'c basically... It's proposed to upgrade the existing roadway
to 4 lane divided with urban eec[ion curb and gutter. ~hat you have out there
now basically iea fou~' lane rural section. The existing ~oad ie deficient in a
number o[ areas. First the lanes are not adequate to...standards for turn
lanes. Therr~'::~ .~ super elevated section I~O~ as you drive there based on
reduced design speedo and desire to have an urban section...without a super
elevations which simplifies the maintenance and drainage... So that's the basic
de, sign. ¢~].tr¢rnative ~ roadway improvements are illustrated on this diagram for
vi-ban sec[ion Lran3[Lioning to the existing 2 lane south of new Lake Drive East.
Turn lar, es...~urn lanes would be at all major intersections. It is not
suggested at t. hi:s time %hd% any oF the:se intersections will be signalized. That
a "r.s.[,3..c s;ignals ~r, cl %~ide streets will come f.o a :stop. Those arc, as shaded
along the edgc~ of tl'~:t st.l-[ping...pr-operty that are proposed to be assessed for
,"cad,ay improvemontr3. ~gain, ~lternative ~. This relates to Lhe utility
improvements that would be required. They're rather minimal. No sanitary sewer
is required. The number of properties that have water services stubbed into
tl/c~m and storm sewo~' ~ould generally be constructed along the length of the road
%o serve the ne~ i-cad,ay generally replacing existi]~g ditches. Z will not with
yOLtr concurrence pro'.sen% this same information on hi%el'native B... Cost summary
arm lundin9 summaYy. The feasibility suggests that. assessments ~ould be levied
on benefitting properties consitent with existing policies and to tl~e extent
that assessments ~ithin those existing policies ar~n'L sufficient to cover
(:gets, %he duficie~cy would be made up with tax i~icrement funds... ~nd on the
basis of the assumed assessments, we had calculated a preliminary or estimate of
tho assessable pai'1., in this case Qltef-native 8 illustrating the rates...
Finally, schedule as indicated %his eveniny [or the presentation of the
feasibility study suggests July 9th public heai'ing. Tho balance of this yeai'
~oulcl bo...basically to the design being earl>, in 'the year ~ith the majority of
Lhe construction bein9 roughly a year from now. 1991 ~.ime. This ~orks into the
proposed sche(ILtlct for T',-.I S improvements.
Mayor C. hmicl: Thank you. ~re there any queetions?
Councilman 3oi~nsor,: So we're talking about not presenting ~lternative B
whatsoever at. th.~ Public Heat'ings?
Gary ~arren: ~e"re saying that Alternate B.~ it could be presented. I think
what we're say.~.hg is that A.tternate B at this point in time does not really come
Jn[o p1ay until such time as we have Lake Drive ~est underway and the traffic
movements even with ~he fuf'ther additions of Lake Susan Hills ~est underway and
at that time we would bring this back as a sepa'r','~te element and have the
hearings and s~tch i:o ~.]e~l w$.t!~ those affected pr-operty owners.
Mayor' '~f~.mi~l- Yeah, I don't :~e,:; the basic need to go with D at this particular
~i,,e.
Gary Wa-r?'eT,-'. Right.
Councilm,-~n Johnson: Unless of course Lot 1, Block 1 gets resold to somebody
else and they decide to build. Is Redmond completely out of there now of' is he
just on hold?
Mayor Cl',mic, l: It's still on hold.
42
City Council Meeting - June 25, 1990
Gary Warren: They show as the owner of record.
Councilman Johnson: 01',, they do own it? Okay.
Mayor Chmiel: Tom, do you have any questions?
Councilman Workman: No, but I would move approval.
Don Patton: I have a question.
Mayor Chmiel: Yes, be my guest.
Don Patton: I thought you were still questioning the engineer.
Mayor Chmiel: No, we'll open it for any discussion right now.
Don Patton: My name is Don Patton with the Lake Susan Partners. I did get a
chance to Zook at Exhibit B and the thing Z guess Z'm concerned about is thls Is
a County road. It serves more than the City of Chanhassen. I'm not golng to
argue that it needs to be upgraded. The thlng that I am arguing is that the
cost of the road needs to be born by the people that are right off of the road.
It to me serves the County. I think that the City should be asking the County
for money to bulld lt. The thing that ua're seeing as a part of the Lake Drlve
assessment that we were here about a month ago as Z recall. We're getting to
the polnt where you've bled people to pay assessments for projects for a long
time and they keep coming and they keep coming. I'm not trying to plead that
we're talking about trying to slnk a mlni Donald Trump here but there's only so
much blood in the turnip. If you were the peopZe that were having to have
$150,000.00 assessment put at your and then Z can't recall some of those other
numbers, Z don't think it's reasonable and Z th£nk that you should go to the
State. Z thlnk you should go to the County and get them to pay some of these as
an area charge. I'm not disagreeing that there should be some front footage
cost but I thlnk that there should be some cost from a greater area that's
benefitting this.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
Don Ringrose: In the report there's language to the effect that suggests that
assessments as presented are in a sense a first cut and we would fully expect
that the Counc11 through thls process may well modlfy lt. In fact, the real
answer to that is something that's probably in 1992 at the assessment hearlng.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. I have one specific question that I have here too relating
to the County. What response does the County have for that particular road and
are there any dollars that the County can plck up for thls speclflc project even
though it's within the confines of the City but it is yet still County road.
Gary Warren: The response from the Carver County englneer has been basically
that he does not have the money to spend on this roadway. Was a similar
response that the Clty received for CR 17 north of TH 5 wlth our detachment
project there where that is also local funds. I received recently from the
County a list of capltal improvements for the next 5 years that I intend to get
to the Council at the next meeting to give you an idea of the needs that they're
trylng to address throughout the County area here. I thlnk certainly that the
43
City Council lteeting --June 25, 1990
question: shou].d be called more specifically ti',an just to have them casually say
th;it they haut: no mono.;, for you he're. .~ a part of this, as ~ indicated ir, the
:-;taft ,"ep.o'.,'t, ~e h.~ve been working with Roge~ Gustafoon, County Engineer.
Roger':'., aw,if,'.: of tlllc.'. ~ th'~r,k in all hones~y~ somewhat embarrassed by this.
The fact that the City's building more county roads than he is able to these
day:.,, although I',.'.'. d~'. have ~ i,ice improvement on CR 14~ $o ~ think it would be
very app'rop;'-iate for the City to petition or s~;,l, ehow communicate with tl~e
Comm~ssioneFs, County Comll:issioners as far as participation on the project.
Mayoi' Chmie].: The othe;' thing I had was, what's the time frame? Is it critical
that ~e move ahead wit;~ it as it is ~'ight now?
Gary W,~'~'~,'en: The TH S relationship and the fact that Lake Drive is constructed,
we did do some inter'ira median work with the intersection of Powers Blvd. and
Lake Drive to temporarily address the traffic movements at that intersection but
the TH .5 improvements 'really ar'e tl',e driving force for- the need for' this element
of the project and I 9ue:-;s I would say that from acor, structability standpoint,
that this would be ~ timely point to do this.
Mayor Chmiel: The other thing I had here too is, I was looking at it probably
sugge.vtir, 9 that we have some additiol~al informatiol~a], kind of meetings on this.
~ think it's co~ing up Cl[~ick with public hearings for 5uly 9th. Z thought that
e;~cl~, of tho:-:e people in and adjacent to the aYeas were all properly notified and
that they're 'fully cognizant of the fact that this was going to take place.
Coul~ci].man Johnson; For' both alter'nates.
Don Ashworth: I think that's true and I think that when we ge[ into those
hea;'ings, you'll bo aware that the owners do know what's occuring. I would like
to bring out [t~at when CR 17 was initially constructed as a county project, that
was the County's responsibility to pay for ti;at and so the bridge that is there
was paid For' by the Count)'. That's a very expensive bridge. The basic lanes,
etc.. A:;; you move from a standard county road ditch section into urban section,
yew'Ye getting into an area that typically the County doesn't fund and yet from
a property owner's standpoi~;l:, the useability of their property becomes enhanced
if they cai', not [,ave that ditch sect. ion. Basically reuse some of those lanes.
That is the position thar. Jerry Ca~'lson has used. We have met with him and
talked with him about this. He has strongly supported the project. Empak,
Frank 8eddor. The o~her Jesu.'-.'. is, I think it'.~, good to go back to 'tire 6ounty
a~d again restate our desire to see them participate ~n what is a county road.
I think what they're going to come back saying is, the City is the one who
really has more dollars available. This is within a tax increment district area
and there's been a number of complaints from the 6ounty as to tax increment and
it'~.; useage and ail the rest. I think if nothing else, we have to get down to a
position to sho~ the County that they are benefitting very extensively by our
steppi;'~g ~'~ and carrying out the construction that might typically have gone
back over to themself. They are the real winner out of this particular project.
Mayor Chmiel' Okay. Don, you wanted to say something?
Don Pattol~: Yes sir-. I guess the other thing that I'm saying, T wasn't aware
that this was hor~ ua[il we saw it on the agenda tonight. It is a short fuse
tl:ir, 9 and I guess the thing I'm proposing, if there are needs like that, the
County was able to come up and fund the grading. You know there's a part of CR
44
City Council Meeting - June 25, 1990
17 that's belng reconstructed as a part of the Lake Susan. As a part of the
good faith of the Lake Susan partners, they did dedicate the lane that CR i7 was
built on. Okay? Way back when. The County built it but the partnership
dedicated that land for that and it's, what 120 foot, 125 foot right-of-way.
Considerably plece of land for half a mile. I'm suggesting that rather than all
of a sudden we need to assess not just the Lake Susan Partners but all those
owners in there a lot of dollars, that some type of a capltal improvement
timing, phasing go forward and say, County. This is when we need it. We're
expecting you to do it. That was able to happen on this grading project. They
have appropriated, I think it's $250,000.00 to do that grading part. I mean
we've been worklng ulth Argue to do the deslgn plan and create the surplus but
they've come up with money to do that project and I think that's fair in dealing
with the adjacent landowners.
Mayor Chmlel: Of course in the same token, Z think too Don we won't dlspute
that the accessibility that they put in for that is a direct enhancement for
your development...of the roads coming into that particular area.
Don Patton: We had to build the turn lanes to get into there any way... We
built those. The County dldn't bulld those. It was the City.
Mayor Chmiel: Did you want to say something Gary?
Gary Warren: From the tlming standpoint, if Council's more comfortable with
calling a hearing for the 23rd is it, instead of the 9th, I guess we...
Mayor Chmlel: I guess I'd 11ke to see that done. Any other discussion?
Hearing none, I have a motion on the floor.
Councilman Johnson: Do you want to modlfy the motlon to move the publlc hearlng
to the 23rd then?
Mayor Chmiel: Right. Tom, you made the motion.
Councilman Johnson: It never got seconded did it.
Mayor Chmiel: No, we had a motion the floor and it died so you do you want to.
Councilman Workman: I'll modify it so that we move the date so we can what,
find other fundlng sources?
Mayor Chmlel: Elther look at other funding sources and checking with the County
to make sure that all the people are fully aware.
Councilmarl Johnson: Earlier notice. Public notice.
Councilman Workman: I would move that.
Gary Warren: And accept the feasibility study?
Mayor Chmiel: Right.
Councilman Johnson: I'll second it.
Resolution ~90--71: Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to
accept the feasibility study for the upgrading of County Road 17 from Trunk
Hlghway 5 south to Lake Orive West and to call the public hearing For July 23,
1990. A!1 voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
CONSIDER ACCELERATED WATER RATE SCHEDULE FOR WATER UTILITY.
Don Ashwo'.'-tlm: Jean Heuwi.~n:~l~ ,~rld Toln el;altec arc: both het'e. I thought that
th.,.:y did an excellent ~ob ~1 putt'".ng toge'theF the report you have in front of
yOU l. het'~:. It'.~] mc~'e information regarding our utility system than you probably
¢;ver W~lted to kno,,.~ but .i.'[ does show a number of interesting items and Z thlnk
thai: tho pr(mary one is tl~a,t the City CouncJ.]. started talking about oh, 3-4
montl~s ago and maybe everm 9oii';9 into this past year' 'trying to find some
moch,ili~$1[i i.o o~stli'o i:~l~?~t a3 ¢I (;ol~mlm~Ltl'm¢t? we b~ef-e I~tkin9 a stateif~ent that
wanted (o se:; ctti- rmatura], resouYces, more epecifZcally our water, preserved and
that any of tt~¢ e;<f.:sLZng water schedules where you would see a /'eduction
war. er 'r'ates ~i'ti'~ i.[~,, more water you consu~mmed is actually counter productive to
~l'~y env:~r'onm[.:m'~l.c~], type oF eFfor'i.s. Z tl~Znk ~e'11 probably [)~ tr~ckZng Ln some
new a~'e~:~: he:e. Z do not. know of army c:i't.y in ti~e State of fiinnesota and this
v~ao again p~'i. cf thc (l~.Ln9 tl',a~. DeZo.Ltf. e had b~-o:~gh( up, i.l:a1: Imas taken tl~is
type of a step 'to put ~nto place a vdte s't~'uctu~'e that will in fact establish
penalty f(>,' exces:s wa(si' mzse~ge du~':Ln9 LI:c: summe~' monLl'ms. As a part of that,
you've got ~ greaL dear of Flexibility. What do you pick out as the quantiflers
ti'mat you.'r~: 9,~ino to u:Bc~. ~h,.t,~ we used was ~-;stablZshing, and it's a good thLng
we have uO~f~pLttCrS today, but the ~;omputer wil1 9o in and analyze each individual
accottrmt. Detorm.[~e your...water' co]~sulnption whlcl~ Zs basLcally your wi]~tor
c:onsm.tm[,tlon and will Lbeam establish ~ i'ate that produces a quantity. We ~111
provide 30~ abort; that dLtrJn~ the summe]' months but anything 1n excess of that
30~ useage over your' ]morinal wlnter quat'teT would go .~t this hlgher accelei-'ated
,¢(:i~,¢dmzlc:. Mhai. h~s bcs. en u:sed for'. ~.m~--l'~ouse I~Urposes i:0 a 50 cem~ts sttf'charg~
that additional useage. Zn that pf'oce:;s Ne a!so r'edLtCO ~.he minimums to i~sure
th,.~t ::~cnLu;' cit. izens, l:ho¢e pr~opJ.e who wef'6 ave the very low end of tile schedule
uz~:~dvantages Di..;incen ~. ives.
for examptc Jf you'f'c ~:J.t ii1'!.~ tl~:- r~ld(:f'[>' L',i'ea and you Call USe ].0 Of' 20,000
g~l].ons at a mZnimum ohaYOe, ~[mct ~dv~nt~ge is {hef'e for you to use less water.
So o[~r f'atSonaZc was Zet's cut theft dow~ to a~ ml~imaZ ~ mi~imum as we can and
.~ fact pf'ovlde some ty~,e of an ~ncermtlve again for those seniors who do not use
that much xater. Tl'~el'o .[3 ~ 9ermeFa[ rate il]ol'e~se, TI~o geller'a], rate
ls, ¢.f you ~ake lnto account ~[ma't t~mere has not been a rate increase during the
past .5 Fea'r':~, 1'.¢: ~ctu~l[>' 11'[ef'a].]_y nothing [n ~erms of the cveraZ1 affects,
With the :-~'r'charg~.,., wi'th thc :'¢;te :[nc:¥'¢.~ase, Z think we"re st111 looking and we
could go :~inc~; T wrote I:l~e cover l'r:)pof'~ and as min~;'~ stiZ], on here, you're
lool~im]g aL a 5~; to 10% i~i'ease 1]i timely' total b1].1. This would be [or general
r'~tes. A~d ~] aver'age '[am1Zy Zooking a( potentiaZZy $10.00 to ~20,00 increaae
if tl~ey m~in[ain the s~me '~ater useage rates that they did tl'mls past summer. So
fei' Tom's ar~a].>'~':.[s, hr; l'mad the computer go i1~, CaZculate ~hat the low quarter
woul. rl have been 'from a year ago. Then pYo'~id~-: the 30%. Then analyze what you
ac:tuaZ]y used i:his past sunmmel' and what your actual, su~'cha~'ge would have been.
Those statisf, ics &re whal. ts urn:ed to produce thr; averages on page 8.
Courlci].m~n irOllnOOn' We should have don~: Tom and Don'~ houses and seen what our
aCtLtO. IS WOU!(~ h-ave
46
City Council Meeting - June 25, 1990
Mayor Chmiel: I said look at my bill for an example.
Oon Ashworth: One is?
Jean Meuuissen: One is your house.
Don Ashworth: My house or Don's house?
Jean Meuuissen: You. Ashworth.
Tom Chaffee: We were going to use the term normal too...but normalcy.
Councilman Johnson: Not if you had Don's included on there. How much was Don's
increase then?
Tom Chaffee: In order to compensate for the variances in the schedule we put in
the fact that the City Manager's bill would increase by 230~.
Councilman Johnson: Well one of his daughters is in college now so the water
useage and phone useage i~ way down.
Jean Meuwissen: Except for the summer when they're home.
Don Ashworth: Z'm a 3 person household?
3ear~ Meuuissen: Yes.
Mayor Chmiel: Your's looks pretty much like mine. I think mine comes to about
90 something per month. Or per 3 months. Excuse me.
Tom Chaffee: These are annual figures here.
Don Ashworth: Recognize that when Z give my $~ to 10~, Z am using the total
billing that goes out from the City. So we're not proposing any increases in
the sewer rates and so when I'm making those types of comparisons, I'm saying
that the average is $200.00 per year for sewer and water and so the increase in
water rate in comparison to your total bill is the $~ to 10~.
Councilman Workman: Are you saying that no other community in the State has
done this?
Don Ashuorth: ~'m not aware of any that has an incentive or disincentive
program or penalty to,
Councilman Johnson: It's an incentive to conserve.
Mayor Chmiel: Basically to save water.
Don Ashworth: Most rate schedules still go on the older philosophy that the
more you use, the less you'd get some type of a cost breakdown.
Councilman Workman: NSP works like that. I think it's a good idea. I'd be
waiting to hear some of the flack on it but it certainly is a good idea. I just
have one question and that is how it relates to water consumption by industry
47
CC:*.? C(:~lr~c'~] Hr.-:a:l:..i.r~9 --.'fUll:~ ?$-~ ~990
l':.ke Ro:-';amount u~es I think ag ~wful lot of water down there for cooling,
How i.s tI'l;.~.t go:[llg to impact them? RFc, tl~e? goil]g to go througl~ 'the Fool?
Hayo'F Chf.',ie].' Are many of these ~r~eople aware as Lo ho~ it's g~ing to affecf.
~ h~ ~,'.' p,~'F t .~.cl~la';"
¢..,¥'>' Wa;i'.--_'.:~: We're taking their wintei' quarter use and giving them that plus
30~ so t~n.tcss they ot~!:f'ageously change ~,ome p'f-ocess of' something.
Councilman Johnson: I think that they chose to...
Councilman Workman: But 30~, of $100,000.00 water' bill o~ whatever is a lot of
bi].]..
Council. man Johnson: Rosemount uses a lot of water but in thelr final
development tl'lP..y ,::hos.'.-~ '.,.o 9o witl'l ,'.~ recircuiai:ing system versus ~ once through
non-contact for' their' cootirmg whlch .[.~ what would have 'really 1nc'teased J.n the
;-.'ttmmer_ ~. ,.'lon',t know if tl~ey'vc '.?,witched back on that.
Gary Wa~'ren: We haven't seen that. The Rosemount useage was pretty up [here
Jear, Heuwissen: 16 million.
6a'~y Wa;-'re.n: So maybe they haven't go[ that system going yet but there's a lot
af ~;c..t e,-.
Cott~lc:~l. man Wol"kmar,: We"re talking about a large 'Financial 1repast.
30!, A:-;I'iwoFi;~;: BILL Councilman Wof'kmarl, just so you understand. See you
c:alculate the L~inte'r quarter. S~>' during the summer months, the first 130~ of
~hat toould b:_~ .:';~lcN1,'~ted ~t the lower 'Fate. So you would not pay &t the higher
;-rote until you get to that.
CoLtf,oi]nla¥1 Workman: But it's going to impact them proportionally like
individual.
Don ,Ashuo'rth'. Until you brought out the question I really hadn't thought about
it t~ut T. tl',ink you mJgl~t flare just tl'~,~ opposJ, te ~ituation. Zf you had ~ l~rge
indust'm'l~l type of user ~nd you gJ. ve them 30Y, for their winte',' quarter, you can
~lmout assure:ally, they would not pay ~l~y additional for wstering during the
· ':'.Ll,~mer just because of ~.he clze of that accoun[. Probably the waterlng would be
very minor in compat'Lson.
They have such a !arge base t'naL they're working from.
Don Acshwortl'l: Tom, did Z rnak,'.; a mis~.st~ttemr.~n~.?
Tom Chaffee'- I w,.~rmted to point OL~t that in the process of our study, and I did
point out th,~t tl'lera were 92 unique conI~ections here .if you will here in the
cl[y that sp'rlnkler mere'rs, homeowner,.-~ associations, etc. and we dldn't
spucifJ, calJ. y address to ~he 130~ item because the example of a sprinkler meter,
you .,.tOll't rUl'l in it in the wlnte~'. $o typically then, depending upon the
posJtioll Lhat 'r.h~: Col.trlcil wanted to t~ke, ~!3. oF their use.=.,ge for ~l'le second and
4~
City Council Meeting - June 25, 1990
fourth quarter could be considered excessive useage. You look at it purely from
a conservationist standpoint. Or again going back to using our sophisticated
computers for analyzlrlg, we can come up with a medlan or a means from whlch to
derive their 1302 basis to uoT-k from for the excess useage.
Councilman Workman: Well we've got that same bridge to cross for the storm
water utility somewhat don't we? Who to assess, the individual or the
homeowner's association.
Councilman Johnson: We have homeowner's associations that have water meters?
Hayor Chmiel: Sure.
Councilman 3ohnson: So for their sprinkling it's all...
Councilman Workman: All the outdoor spigots are homeowner association
controlled and so I would then therefore have no storm water utllity problem
would I?
Councilman Johnson: No.
Councilman Workman: But that's the thing.
Councilman Johnson: Yeah, because there there would be. Now Rosemount would
have an average winter useage and if they've got also a watering system that's
on a separate meter, whlch if they don't they should have, I would say that
their watering would be part of the 302 above thelr normal flow. The homeowners
association, I have no ldea how to handle that because there won't be any flow
in the winter.
Jean Heuuissen: Rosemount would not be...
Councilman Johnson: Yeah, but you would take their industrial use and allow
thenl 30~ for thelr sprinklers. So you add them to because they're both at
physically the same location. You could add them together.
Tom Chaffee: You add the consumption together in order to arrive at your 130~
though.
Councilman Johnson: Right. You could do tha~ with the homeowner's association
except you have to add everybody's water use together throughout the
neighborhood or somehow or another.
Gary Warren: Well even like in the storm water utility district we're saying
that there's an opportunity For somebody to appeal on a rate. There are some
exceptions that maybe need to be specifically looked at and calculated but the
1dca ls to get at glving some credlt for the fact that you've got a base useage
which everybody needs and then you've got people who can get excessive and I
think that's the policy that we're looklng at.
Councilman Johnson: There are a lot of people out there, I don't know how many
in thls town, but in varlous other suburbs that use drlnklng water to cool their
buildings with. They run it through a chilling system. One time through and
then dump it down the storm sewer. It's something that is wasting our ground
49'
City Council Meeting --J~ne 25, 1990
water coT~siderabl>.'. ! think the;-e's a shopping cente'r- right over there that
do~:~ ,~ coup]_.'-~ n,.illi, ol~ gallons a day for just cooling the shopping center.
~/~ ~ :, / ~, .I .
~,,~..~.,e grou~,.: ua'L~r ~s ~o c:hsap, it encourages that and this is the proper step
and is al~ example fei' the ul':olc .Stai:e to ~ko. Tl~e legislature ought to be
looki~,g ~;t something like this in requiring this so that they discourage that
Councilman ;~orkm~n: Moll I would ;~ove ~o ~utho~'izr; the City Attorney to draft a
resol.~ztion which incorpo~-~tos tl'~¢~ propossd rate changes.
Councilaan Johnson: Mhat kind of public notice should we do on this?
Id~yor Ch$~o].' That';; one of tho things my co~cerl~ ~s. Making sure that
everybody is aware as to what we're proposing and having some kind of a public
not,ce for this.
Councilman Workman' We're 9oing to need to have something drafted.
Hayo~' Chat. p-:!.' And I'd 1.ik~; to sst: some comp&~'isons rathel' than just one or two
or three to look at it ~;-om ~-'esidential as well ~s commercial and ~ndLtotrial.
Tom ...n~rfe,:, Would you like to s~oe those now?
Mayor Chmie].: No. I'd ~J. ke~o have them ready at that time.
Oon Ashworth' So you rc s~y~ng probably the second m~,o ' '
' ..~ttng in July and we have
a larger notice in the newspaper.
Councllmsl~ Johl';;~Oli' Did Z '.;econd that yet?
M.lyoY' Chmio.l- Y~s.
C,;~'y Wai'ron'
Councilman Workman: Did you?
Councilman Johnson' No I c~zd" l~' +..
31m Chaffee' Ga~"y (lid.
Hayor Chmiel: Okay, there's a motlon on the floor with a second.
Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to authorize the City
Attorney to draft a resolution uhich incorporates the proposed rate changes.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
CONSIDER PURCHASE OF BUILDING INSPECTION VEHICLE.
OOrl Aohuorth: We did get a very excellent bid from earlier this evening. That
process did save us, I would say $4,000.00 tc $5,000.00 over what we originally
look~d to. I ~[ncere].y bel.ieur~ that we could look to again that same type of
doll. a~' savings if we lite~'ally ~ent back out again. That coupled ~ith the fact
that we have both the Ester( and the Lynx that are really on their last logo.
5O
City Coup,ell Meeti;,g -- June 25, 1990
Jim has gone through kind of an analysis where they're sitting. We've put 2
engines in the or, c vehicle. Harold says that it's looking bad again. Those
vehicles simply weren't designed for that type of useage. The Council in an
earlier work session had stated that staff should not look to replacing or
purchasing a new adminstrative vehicle that's actually included in the 1990
budget so we've withheld that type of bringing that item back. At the same time
we're looking to this next year, we will be coming back at least with the
request with both the Lynx and the Escort and it's my belief that we have the
dollars available. If you take advantage of those now, potentially using one of
those 2 vehicles to help in terms of the Sharmin, Jerry, Todd type of vehicle.
Put an inspection vehicle in there that properly belongs in there and not have
to look to that financial load for 199i. We probably have hit 3 or 4 different
bases including a good cost savings in that process. So the short and the long
of it is, staff is recommending that the dollars that were originally allocated
for the adminstrative sedan vehicle be reallocated to replace an inspection
vehicle and that staff be authorized to take quotations for that replacement.
You could reject those in 2 weeks or 4 weeks.
Councilman Workman: Could I make a quick perhaps pertinent comment? Knowing
how adamant Councilwoman Dimler is in regards to vehicles, etc., should we maybe
delay this until the next meeting? Can ue wait that long?
Mayor Chmiel: I think what we can do is go out for the bids as Don has
indicated and if there's any strong desires at that time, then it can be
addressed. She should be back by then.
Don hshuorth: We will not put it on the agenda unless Councilwoman Dimler is
present.
Councilman Workman: For approval of bids?
Don Ashworth; For approval of bids.
Councilman Workman: I'd just like her to have a shot at this.
Mayor Chmiel: She has a thing with vehicles. Can I get a...
Councilman Johnson: I move approval.
Councilman Workman: Second.
Councilman 3ohnson moved, Councilman Workman seconded that the dollars that were
originally allocated for the adminstrat~ve sedan vehicle be reallocated to
replace an inspection vehicle and that staff be authorized to take quotations
for that replacement. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to adjourn the meeting.
Ail voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 10:27
Submitted by Don Ashworth
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
51