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1991 03 25CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR HEETING HARCH 25, 1991 Mayor Chmlel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCILHEHBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilman Workman, Councilman Wing, Councilwoman 0imler and Councilman Mason STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knutson, 3o Ann 01sen, Charles Folch, Todd Gerhardt and Todd Hoffman APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Workman seconded to approve the agenda as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEHENTS: None. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Workman moved, Councilwoman Oimler seconded to approve the following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendation: e. Approval of Bills. f. City Council Minutes dated March 11, 1991 Planning Commission Minutes dated March 6, 1991 Park and Recreation Commission Mlnutes dated March 12, 1991 g. South Lotus Lake Boat Access Site and Drainage Study, Accept Plans and Authorize Advertising for Blds. voted in favor and the motion carrted unan[mously. A. ACCEPT DONATXONS FROH THE CHRNHASSEN ~HERTCAN LE6;[ON ~UB FOR THE PUBLIC SAFETy DEPARTHENT AND F]::R[ DEPRRT~I[NT. Mayor Chmiel: I'll take item l(a) real quickly. This is accepting donations from Chanhassen American Legion Club for the Public Safety Department and Fire Department. There's only one other thing that I asked staff thls afternoon is regarding the smoke alarms to be distributed to needy residents. I've got some real concerns over people in our community who are deaf and asked if they oould check into that to see what's available for those people. Either a flasher or what else. Whatever klnds of implements we can use. But other than that, that's the only thing I wanted to bring up. So I will move item l(a). Is there a second? Councilwoman Olmler: Since you pulled it I just wanted to make a comment and that was to congratulate the Legion and also thank them for their generosity to our Public Safety Department and to the Flre Department over the years. I second it. City Council Meeting - March 25, 1991 Mayor ChmJel moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to accept donations from the Chanhassen American Legion Club for the Public Safety Department and Fire Department. Al! voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. C. APPROVE CONTRACT ~MENDMENT NO. 1 FOR HNTB, AUDUBON ROAD SOUTH PROJECT 89-[8, Councilwoman Oimler: Item (c) is to approve a contract amendment for HNTB, Audubon Road South Project 89-18. I pulled this one because several weeks ago I also pulled the approval of the accounts for BRW because I didn't have a detailed explanation as to what we were approving but I do want to thank BRW that they dld send that information ln. I guess this is a slmllar case to me that this engineering firm ls increasing it's fees by more than $22,000.00 slmply because of a late construction start. That's the only reason that I could find and I would really like to know what we're getting for those $22,000.00. I guess if it were the developer asklng for it I could understand maybe an increase in material and labors but a consultant inspection fee, I think that's a 11ttle blt hlgh and I'd 11ke to see a detalled accounting. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, I agree. I also wanted to pull this one. Same questions that you're asklng as well. One of the things I had an opportunity to talk to Charles thls afternoon regarding this. It looks like it's about 30~ over the estlmate and I'd 11ke to make a motlon that ue table thls and get some information back regarding thls speclfic ltem. Councilwoman Oimler: Second. Don Ashuorth: Clarification. Mayor Chmiel: Any discussion? Don Ashuorth: I'm sorry. Is that, what you're saying is you're approving the Accounts Payable but deleting that one item for further information? Mayor Chmiel: That's correct. Oon Ashuorth: Okay. Councilman Workman: And I guess I always get a little nervous too when, back up and see. One of the last sentences on the second page. As will be recalled, thls project Js primarily funded out of Tax Increment Financing, Dlstrict No 2-1 proceeds and we anticipate no increase in the assessment portion of this project. It would appear as though it kind of qualified the increases that way as it's kind of funny money or magic money or whatever and that because lt's comlng out of tax increment. Blg deal because lt's a blg pool. Maybe that's not the way. It just seems to me that if there were increased in assessments, we'd all be really nervous about the whole thing and because lt's tax increment, I don't want us to think that it's not. Mayor Chmiel: Very good. We have a motion on the floor with a second. Mayor Chmiel moved, Councilwoman Oimler seconded to table approval of Contract Amendment No. 1 for HNTB, Audubon Road South Project 89-18. All voted in favor and the morton carried unanimously. City Council Meeting - March 25, 1991 D. APPROVE 1991 LIGUOR LICENSES. Councilwoman Oimler: I pulled item (d) which is the 1991 Liquor License approval. I met with Scott today and we had a discussion about, and I thought that it would be good to suggest that a small percentage of these liquor license fees go to the Public Safety Bepartment for enforcement of Hinnesota Statutes that prohibit illegal sales of liquor to minors and I think that percentage can be determined in our budget process. I don't know what it should be but you know just enough to enforce it. We have something similar that we passed here with the tobacco license people that the fee would be applied to enforcement. Again, that our department can go in and do inspections or remind them that they need to check lO's and this kind of thing. And in view of the recent violations also I felt that MGM, Holiday and Brooke's, I would like to move the approval of all the other licenses except for them. And for them, ! don't think that just giving them a warning is enough and I would like to have a meeting with them, similar to what Bon suggested, so that we can impress upon them that this is important. We do have a Drug Task Force in this city that is seeking to make enforcement more stringent and I think we as a City Council need to back that up. I'm not sure what our action will be and I don't want to in any way interrupt their business but it's my understanding that this current license is in force until May 1st anyway so this would not be interrupting their business. And that we should set the hearing date before the Hay 1st so their business will not be interrupted. Don Ashworth: So you would like to have a formal hearing then or you'd like to have an informal meeting with the businesses? Councilwoman Dimler: Roger, what do you suggest? Roger Knutson: For discussion? Councilwoman Dimler: ghat do you mean by formal hearing? A public hearing? Mayor Chmiel: Here at City Council on one of the next agendas. Is that what you're eluding to? Councilwoman Oimler: What does anyone else think? Hayor Chmiel: I think that that could be a meeting that could be established here in City Hall. Councilwoman Dimler: On a regular agenda? Mayor Chmiel: No. No. I don't see the need for it on the agenda but I think to have a meeting wlth them to lmpress upon them just exactly what you said. Councilwoman Oimler: And I would also like to hear their ideas on how they plan to improve thelr own procedures. That's the direction I would like to see it go. Anybody else have comments? Mayor Chmiel: Roger? City Council Meeting - March 25, lggl Roger Knutson: After discussing this a bit with Don, ! would recommend based on the circumstances, that you handle it fairly formally £n the Council chambers as part of an agenda 1rem. Don Ashworth: If the Council, if there's a possibility that anyone of the licenses would not be renewed for 1991, then you should use a formal hearing process. I just confirmed that wlth Roger. If, on the other slde you felt that you would like to meet with owners and make sure that they know the importance of the subject to the Counc11, you could do that as an informal meeting and that could be wtth two members of the Council or it could be with all members. Councilwoman Dlmler: Well I think it should be with all members. Mayor Chmlel: Oh it should. Roger Knutson: Obviously with all members it has to be ina publlc meeting. Councilwoman Oimler: Yes. Okay, so I would go for a formal hearing then. So that answers that question. Mayor Chmiel: Zt does. There's a motion on the floor. Is there a second? Councilman Wing: Second. Mayor Chmiel: Any discussion? Councilman Mason: When this came up, it was kind of interesting. We were at that meeting that Sergeant Hudson had with the Metro Drug Task Force and his clalm, and I agree, is that alcohol is the biggest problem. I'm a little concerned that we're letting people sell 11quor to under aged chlldren but yet they don't get arrested, two 30 year olds get arrested for buying or selling marijuana. I'm not saying the 11cerise should be revoked but I hope we don't have a double standard here because I think what happened to those, well I think lt's very 11legal and I think it's very wrong. What ls it, 10~ ! belleve of the population of the United States has some alcohol problem. I think those owners need to hear that. I'm not advocating revocation of licenses or anything 11ks that but I think the City needs to tell anyone that deals with alcohol that they need to be careful. Mayor Chmlel: Polnt well put. Any other discussion? We have a motlon on the floor for a formal hearing at a Council meeting and we have a second. Councilwoman Oieler moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve the 1991 Liquor Licenses with the exception of HGH, Holiday and Brooke's uho will have a formal hearing w/th the City Council. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanlmously. Councilwoman Dimler: Okay, and wlth the understanding that all the other licenses have been moved and approved. Mayor Chmiel: Right. Correct. VISITOR PRESENTATION: None City Council Meeting - Narch 25, 1991 PUBLIC HEARING= ALLOCATION OF YEAR XUII COHHUNITY DEV~COPHENT BLOCK 6RANT FUNDS. Mayor Chmiel: I'd like to open this public hearing at this particular time. This is for allocation of Year XVII Community Oevelopment Block Grant Funds. Jo Ann are you going to handle that. Jo Ann Olsen: I guess I can pretty much just answer questions if you have any. Paul has put together a budget for the allocation of the funds. To go through those. He's recommended that $7,573.00 go the South Shore Senior Center. $20,000.00 go to complete the development of the handicapped accessible totlot in City Center Park. $5,000.00 is recommended to the Old Village Hall for it to be handicapped accessible. $3,000.00 to the Sojourn Senior Daycare Center for acquisition of tao wheelchairs, a dish~asher and to allow them to construct a partition to separate the center from the main church building to reduce conflicts between the different uses in the building. And finally, $1,970.00 for staff tlme associated with the development of the Senlor Servlces brochure for Chanhassen residents. The total allocation is $37,543.00. Mayor Chmlel: Thank you. Any discussion? Councilwoman Olmler: Public hearing. Is there anyone out there? Jo Ann Kvern: I'm Jo Ann Kvern from the South Shore Senior Center. Mayor Chmiel: Would you like to come up to the microphone please. Jo Ann Kvern: Jo Ann Kvern and I'm the coordinator for the South Shore Senlor Center. I brought along a brochure this evening that ktnd of tells you about the Senior Center. A month or so ago you all received a directory of servlces for seniors that the agency did develop. Not just for this South Shore Senior Center but for the other three senior centers that the agency operates and I hope the Councll wlll agree with your staff's recommendation. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Is there anyone else? Seeing none, I'd like to close the public hearing. Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Workman seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the ~otion carried. The public hearing was closed. Mayor Chmiel: Discussion? Go ahead Tom. Councilman Workman: I'll skip through the five here quickly. Or quickly go to the top part. In the paragraph in the mlddle of page 2, we're talking about the Senior Commission has requested that the City use the funds to undertake speclflc and well detalled studles of the feasibility of senlor houslng and a senior center. It is estimated that these studies will cost between $7,500.00 and $10,000.00 each. They wlll be used to start the long range process of undertaking these projects if there is support and they prove to be feasible. thlnk haven't ~e come to a conclusion that those do have support and don't we have the desire that we ail1 make them feasible? City Council Meeting -- March 25, 1991 3o Ann Olsen: I believe so with the Senior Commission. Councilman Workman: Alright. It was the if that I had a problem with and I think we ought to be doing as much as we can in that direction. I was talking to Mike earlier tonight. It just seems like we could use a better focus. I know I said this last year. It seems like we could use some better focus on these funds. If not, ma/be we can give more to South Shore. It seems like that's something that is very much a focus. Number 4. $3,000.00 to the Sojourn Senior Da/care Center. I'm not sure exactly what that is and I'm wondering about the separation of church and state and how that works. Where is this? Mayor Chmiel: 3o Ann, would you like to. Jo Ann Olsen: Well actually I don't, I think you went to visit didn't you? Councilman Workman: Was that in Buffalo? Councilwoman Dimler: Actually they only use the church. They are not church related. They use the church as, there she is. She can address it. Mayor Chmiel: Please come up. Please state your name. Sally Hebson: I'm Sally Hebson and I'm the founder and director of the Sojourn Adult Daycare program. We have been located in the townshlp of Chanhassen slnce last June when we moved to the Holy Cross Lutheran Church and began leasing space from them. We're beginning our ?th year of programming in the Excelslor- Chanhassen area. We leased space from the Mlnnetonka School Oistrlct for the flrst 6 years and as you're probably well aware, the School Dlstrlct has needed their spaces for student programming and so all non-school programs were asked to move elsewhere. We have been worklng with Carver County ever slnce we began operations in August of 1984 with alternative care grant monies t'hrough the pre-admission screening program in both Carver and Hennepln County. Sojourn ls an adult day program and it's deslgned to have people, older people who need assistance in 11vlng independently to have some place to spend thelr tlme. It really has a dual purpose. It's not just for the older person's welfare but it offers a rest blt for famlly members and careglvers who have the unremitting care of an older person's wellbeing, either famlly or neighbor or friend. I'm not sure I'nl answering your questions. Councilman Workman: I think you are. In talking to Richard he kind of enlightened me a little blt better as a detail I didn't get to. It mlght be, I'd appreciate it if you could maybe lnvite me out there sometime. Sally Hebson: I'd be delighted to invite all of you to come. We can either do it formally or informally. We have good meals and we bake lots of good treats in the kltchen. Councilman Workman: Lord knows I don't need... Sally Hebson: None of us do but it's always fun so I'd be happy to invlte all of you either formally or informally. I did make a presentation at the Senior Commission a week ago Frlday and Mr. Krauss asked me to send a letter to hlm outlining some of the ways that we could use some monles and that's why we're on City Council Meeting - March 25, 1991 the agenda and I'm here tonight. I would be very pleased if you would follow that recommendation. Thanks. Councilman Workman: That makes me feel good then on that part and none of these are really minor but they just seem fragmented and if we've got a major focus like a senior center that's going to take care of a lot of these things. Obviously handicapped access to building and to the totlots and things shouldn't be overshadowed but if we've got a focus like the community center, could we use larger amounts of money for the design of these things in the feasibility study and anything we want related to that? And if we can, Z'd like to see us, we've got to be running out of buildings to make handicap accessible. Hayor Chmiel: I think that's probably true. Don, do you have anything to add to that? Don Ashworth: I'm not sure if I understand the question. Would you like to see more monies put in reserve for the potential construction of a. Councilman Workman: It wasn't a question. It was a puntification. I don't know that we can put them in reserve. Can you put them in reserve for one year or something? Don Ashworth: Yes. Councilman Workman: I'm just saying, if the Senior Commission is working on this focus of a Senior Center building, it would seem to me that we could use triple this amount for something like that and should be reserving some. Don Ashworth: The only reservation I would note is that we have done that in the past. We have not had a good track record. In other words, we've asked for a year and then we've extended it for a year and then we still didn't have a project. Then it went to the side for a 3-4 year period of time and we again reserved dollars. We can do it but I'm sure we'll be getting questions as to. Councilman Workman: Well then I think we just need to get that focus as soon a we can and then we won't have to reserve anything. Hayor Chmiel: Sort of have direction as to going that way? Councilman Workman: Because I don't mean to take and pile money up and keep it away from other areas unnecessariiy. I'm just saying, if that's on the horizon, we shouId be pIanning for that. Mayor Chmiel: Sure. Ursula? Councilwoman Dimler: I would move approval of item 1, 2, 4 and 5 and I'd like to discuss 3. Although I agree with the intention of making the Old Uillage Hall handicapped accessible, I do question how often that is used for meetings and when it is used for meetings, how many people come that would need that access. I could see that money being spent somehow better if it is possible to make one of the Dial-a-Ride vans handicapped accessible so that people can get around to shopping and you know, have that service available to them. Would that be a possibility? City Council Meeting - March 25, 1991 Mayor Chmiel: I suppose anything is a possibility with that. Although I think too, the question has to be answered as to how much the Old Village Hall is really used. Don Ashworth: I can't answer either of those two questions. Mayor Chmiel: Maybe Todd can. Todd Gerhardt: We did get one complaint. Mayor Chmiel: Right behind you too. Councilwoman Dimler: One complaint in how many years Todd7 Todd Gerhardt: We got one complaint, what. The Old Village Hall's been there 3 years now so we did receive one complaint that it wasn't handicapped accessible. Councilwoman Oimler: But how many meetings do we have there? Todd Gerhardt: Well, I'd say there's at least one a week in there. Councilwoman Oimler: Really? Todd Hoffman: We also sponsored the Carver County Historical Society's sponsored a program that had a handicapped instructor. We had to go ahead and build a wooden ramp structure. A temporary structure for that person, instructor to enter the building. Roger could probably address that as well. That being a public building... Mayor Chmiel: It's a requirement by State Code. Roger Knutson: If you're going to have official public meetings such as one time we had an HRA meeting over there. You really shouldn't have meetings in places that aren't handicapped accessible. Councilwoman Oimler: I understand that but my question is, those meetings that are being held once a week, are they public meetings? Todd Gerhardt: No. It's the Cub Scouts. It's the local church, St. Hubert's Historical Soceity. Todd runs city programs through there. I think he has dance classes in there and craft things and the library also goes over there and uses it and then any special interest projects or programs where people need space. Councilwoman Dimler: Well I'm not opposed to it. My question was, could we put that money to better use by making it more available to more people that would need wheelchair access to a van you know. And I know that Southwest Metro is talking about making their vans handicapped accessible and I was just wondering if we couldn't give them the money instead. Todd Gerhardt: I would leave it up to Paul to look into that one. I'd rather see the van have it than the Old Village Hall. We were just brainstorming areas whore we could spend the money and I know we did receive that one complaint. City Council Meeting - March 25, 1991 Councilwoman Dimler: I kind of felt that's what you. Mayor Chmiel: As Z look at $5,000.00, that'd make a fine ramp but I think maybe what we could find out is what it would really cost to put a handicapped accessibility to the Old Uillage Hall and the balance of that could be given to the Southwest Metro as well. Councilwoman Oimler: Yeah, that would be fine. Councilman Workman: So then we would what? Then maybe we could direct the rest to the number 4? Mayor Chmiel: No. We were talking to put that to the Southwest Metro. Councilwoman Oimler: To Southwest Metro to make their vans handicapped. Mayor Chmiel: Handicapped accessible. Councilman Workman: I mean what if that's more money? Mayor Chmiel: Well any dollars allocated to them they can use towards whatever. Councilwoman Oimler: It would help them out no matter what they needed. Councilman Wing: $25,000.00 is going to handicapped improvements. $20,000.00 for a totlot. I guess I don't have a lot of information on these specifics other than I've seen Sojourn. If there's any money to be spent, the job they do with the elderly out there is really commendable so I guess if there was any left over dollars that we're going to argue about, and this was the allotment program, I'd like to see it go that direction. Or the South Shore Senior Center. Those two are actually hands on. We were just talking about senlors earlier and those are physical hands on allocation of dollars for seniors. So if that's an interest, I fully support dollars to elther one of those two versus the others. Mayor Chmlel: Don? Don Ashworth: I had some concern on the Southwest only from the standpoint, Community Development Block Grant programs, they require so much paperwork associated with that and you have to show that you spent exactly this dollar and you have to show each check. They would not accept where we simply wrote a check to Southwest. We would physically have to insure that we were paying a bill to some type of firm that was putting something into one of those buses. That's where it could get a little stickier. Councilwoman Dimler: Yeah. I understand that there are certain stipulations and I'm sure that that was Paul's lntent was also to stay in 11ne with the stipulations plus distribute the money to different areas for different purposes that are legal for thls money. So like I said, I don't have a problem wlth either one of them but I did want to see it go to Southwest. Councilman Workman: Ursula, doesn't Southwest Metro get funding for that kind of stuff from the State specifically for that? City Council Meeting - March 25, 1991 Councilwoman Dimler: I don't know where their funding's going to come from but they are looking at. Mayor Chmiel: I would imagine they do get it from the State. Councilwoman Dialer: From the RTD. Councilman Workman: I'm surprised that those vehicles aren't mandated to be handicapped accessible. That they come that way. Councilwoman Dimler: Well yes, eventually it will be from the Regional Transit Board but right now with the budget crunches and everything, the Opt'Out programs are not being funded as we would like. As a matter of fact, they're cutting our budgets back so I'm just really questioning if this is possible and if it is, I would like to see some of it go there anyway. I think more people would benefit from it than the handicapped ;'amp at the Old Village Hall. Councilman Workman: Can we have staff look into what that would cost to outfit one van and then split the rest? Mayor Chmiel: Well I don't think... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Councilman Mason: ...I think that would kind of erase all of that whole issue. Councilwoman Oimler: I don't know if there'd be any leftover money. Councilman Mason: But certainly it leaves the money in the area too. Don Ashuorth: Could I suggest that you consider approving all of the other items. Leave the one $5,000.00 allocation. Councilwoman Oimler: Yeah, that was my motion. Don Ashworth: On hold and then have staff bring back some alternatives. Councilwoman Oimler: Right. Mayor Chmiel: I think that'd be fine. Would there be a second to that motion? Councilman Wing: Second. Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve the following Year XVII Community Block Grant Funds allocations: 1. $7,573.00 to the South Shore Senior Center. 2. $20,000.00 to complete the development of the handicapped accessible totlot in City Center Park. 3. $5,000.00 to the Old Village Hall for handicapped accessibility shall be tabled for further staff review. 10 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1991 4. $3,000.00 to the Sojourn Senior Daycare Center for acquisition of two wheelchairs, a dishwasher and to allow them to construct a partition to separate the center from the main church building to reduce conflicts between the different uses in the building. 5. $1,970.00 for staff time associated with the development of the Senior Services brochure for Chanhassen residents. Total allocation is $32,543.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. ZONING ORDINANCE AHENDHENTS, FIRST AND SECOND REAPING. REGARDING: A. DEFINITION OF STRUCTURES, B. DEFINITION OF ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, Mayor Chmiel: Let me ask a quick question. Why are we having first and second readlngs all at one tlme or shouldn't we have just the flrst readlng and second reading at another time? Is there a real rush with it? Don Ashworth: Well normally you would have a split. If you're going to have both readings this evening, you're going to have to make a motion to amend your Rules of Procedure. Jo Ann, did you want to speak to why this was felt to be necessary? Jo Ann Olsen: Well we weren't doing that specifically for the structure. That can wait but the accessory structure, we'd really like to get that going because we're startlng to get inquiries on accessory structures because it's the season and people are going to start construction. The ordinance that we have right now, they can be very large. They can be very large and right up to your rear lot line. We've had a lot of problems so we'd like to get this in the books. That's why we were asking for that. To allow that to happen tonight just for the accessory structure. Mayor Chmiel: Alright. Is there any discussion? Anyone wishing to address it? Councilwoman Dimler: I guess I just had one question and that was on the advertising slgns belng deflned as a structure and then havlng to meet. What kind of advertising signs are you talking here on private property? Jo Ann Olsen: Are you looking on the definition of structure? Councilwoman Oimler: Yes. I mean what did you have in mind when we put that in there? Jo Ann Olsen: Well we're just saying that signs are also considered a structure. You know they're a permanent structure in the ground and that you would technically have to get a permlt for that also. And just so we can have setbacks from that. What types are you talking about? 11 City Council Meetin~ -- Ma~'ch 2.5, 1991 Councilwoman Dimler: Are you talking al)out like political signs that go LIp dttring the political season? Jo 4nn Olsen: No, we're talking more the more permanent signs where you do have to meet a setback. Councilwoman Dimler: Oh, permanent advertising signs? It uouldn't be seasonal signs or anything like that? Mayor Chmiel: Hr, Emmings, do you have anything you'd like to shed on that? Steve Emmings: No... Jo Ann Olsen: We've got other' sign regulations that cover that. Councilwoman Oimler: We're not talking about the sign that's in the, advertising the Assembly of 6od Church there that's in our median then? Jo ~nn Olsen: I took that out today. With the help of Dave Hempel. We pulled that out. Yeah. Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. Would that be an illegal sign? Jo Ann Olsen: That's definitely an illegal sign. That's not a permanent sign either. Councilwoman Oimler: Alright. That's all I had. Mayor Chmiel: Anyone else? ~ny additional discussion? If hearing none, I'll entertain a motion for' items (a) and (b). Councilwoman Oimler: Just (a) and just (b)? .]o AT~n Olsen: Right. I thought we were just acting on (a). As far as (b). Mayor Chmiel: Okay, you can go each sepaf-ately? Each individual? Jo Ann Olsen: Yeah, why don't you just go separately. Mayor Chmiel: What were you going to say? Don Ashworth: I was just talking with Roger. I realize the desire to take and see this put into effect as soon as possible but recognizing the number of people we I, ay be affecting, I really thlnk that we should look to a flrst and seco,d readlng. I would feel more comfortable if we would do that with both (a) and (b). There may be some permits that we hit in thls two week perlod of tlme but I think insurlng that the general public is fully knowledgeable as to what we're dolng probably would outweigh those one or two permlts. If we did have a legal problem down the line, you'd be far more defendable. Or it would be far more defel~dable. Mayor Chmiel: Right. Okay, can I have a motion? 12 City Council Meeting - March 25, Councilman Workman: You know we discussed this at great length and I saw in the Minutes Mr. Emmings and Conrad talking about why it got delayed or something. I remember discussing this at pretty great length. Maybe you can refresh my memory and why it ended up back at the Planning Commission. Jo Ann Olsen: Well it's just been such a long period of time. I thought I'd bring it back to them too just for discussion. To see, did they want to make any other changes? Is it okay to go ahead and take it back in front of the council? Councilman Workman: Freshen it up a 11ttle? 30 Ann Olsen: Well yeah. It had been a long time. Councilman Workman: Because if you remember it was with 8i11, it was kind of ugly. 8ut yeah I guess, because it seemed to me we had it kind of straighten out and so that's why I really don't have a whole lot of comments on lt. Mayor Chmiel: If we can get a motion then for zoning ordinance amendments for the first readlng regarding definition of structures and also definition of accessory structures. Councilwoman Olmler: For item (a) only? Mayor Chmiel: For item (a) and then we'll act on item (b). Councilwoman Oimler: I so move. Councilman Workman: Second. Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Workman seconded to approve the first reading of Zoning Ordinance Amendment to Section 20-1 to amend the definition of structure as follows: Section 20.I Definitions. Structure means anythlng manufactured, constructed or erected which is normally attached to or positioned on land, whether temporary or permanent in character, including but not limited to: buildings, fences, sheds, advertising signs, dog kennels, hard surface parking areas, boardwalks, playground equipment, concrete slabs. Section 20-908(5) is amended by adding subparagraph (e) to read as follows: (e) Into any required front, rear or side yard: driveways, sidewalks, strand wire agricultural fence. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Mayor Chmiel: Now for the zoning ordinance amendment, first reading for the definition of accessory structures. Any discussion? If no discussion, entertain a motion. 13 City Council Heeti~g --March 25, 1991 Councilman Workman: I'll move zoning ordinance amendment, first reading. Item (b), definition of accessory structures. Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second? Councilwoman Dimler: Second. Councilman Workman moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to approve the first reading of zoning ordinance amendment to amend Chapter 20, Section 20-1, 20-615 and Section 20-904 regarding Accessory Structures as shown in the attached ordinance amendment. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDHENT TO SECTION 20-263 REGARDING PORTABLE CHEMICAL TOILETS ON RECREATIONAL BEflCHLOTS. 3o Ann Olsen: We were going to pull this from the agenda tonight because there was some issues that need to be resolved with it and maybe Roger call get into those. But Ursula also let us know that there's some people uho wish to speak on this so we thought ue could still let them speak, since they're coming tonight and maybe Roger can also explain. Do you want to get into that now? Mayor Chmiel: Roger, why don't you just give a quick, brief explanation and we'll have the people address the issue. Roger Knutson: I received a copy of this on the first time on Friday and Z discussed it wlth Paul. We just weren't able to get a redraft for you in that short a period. Z had some concerns with it. Among other things, a basls for denlal of chemlcal toilet ls neighborhood complaints and that under the law ls really not per se a basis for turning anyone down for anything. I mean people can complain about chemical toilets as a gulde because they don't 11ke their neighbor for example and if you don't 11ke your nelghbor you can just call up and say, Z hereby complain and the permlt won't lssue. There's some technical issues wlth the ordinance which have to be dressed up. When staff issues a permit, or renewal permlt in thls case for chemical tollets or anythlng else, they have to have some non-subjective objective criteria upon which to act. Zt's confusing tl~e more Z thlnk about it but the rule ls, staff can't exerclse discretion. It does but it really can't in a sense. Staff carries out the ordinances which you publlcate. They can't exerclse discretion on subjective matters when it comes to issuing permits. That's the Council's perogative so a few things ].ike that have to be spruced up. Hayor Chmiel: Okay. Very good. Is there anyo~e wishing to address this speclflc lssue? If you would please come forward to the podium and state your name and your address. Lee: Could you read the ordinance as it's currently proposed? 3o Ann Olsen: Why don't I just give him mine. Mayor Chmiel: I don't think we have it in here. 14 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1791 Roger Knutson: It's stuck in there someuhere. I know I found mine. It's really lengthy. It's like two pages long. Mayor Chmiel: Maybe it'd be best if you just read that. We're basically not going to. Councilman Workman: The last page? Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Adopt this this evening as was indicated. Councilwoman Dimler: Do you have the very last page? Jo Ann Olsen: It's not the very last page. Mayor Chmiel: No, it's the one prior to. Right here. Councilwoman Oimler: This is what you're proposing? Jo Ann Olsen: Yeah. That's what the Plannlng Commission... Mayor Chmiel: You've had an opportunity to look at it? Lee: Yeah, I just wanted to find out for sure what was in front of the Council. I'm with one of the residents with the Sunrise Hills Civic Association. We've got the private beachlot on Frontier Trail and I guess I was the one who actually got this all started when I gave Ursula a call to find out what could be done just to address some speciflc problems that we were having. ! don't think they're at all unique and that is, with that large a number of people, and I believe there are 57 members that span out over 3 or 4 blocks, having access to a temporary use toilet facility, I think is a very practical request. I'm glad to see the City Councll taking thls up. Just in looking through what was proposed. What we would like to see is have it essentially from Memorian Day weekend thru a perlod just after the Labor Bay weekend and I see that June 15th ls proposed. But the other conditions that are being set forth, actually look very feasible. The alterantlve that ls not havlng access to a facility I thlnk is not very workable. We have kids going behind the trees to use the trees as roller facilities and that's certainly not what the Council would like to see. I suppose the worse condition is kids just going right into the lake whlch lsa real possibility. But really prompted thls was that the chemical toilets are used by the City on some of the other public beaches such as Carver Beach and we note that there are usually two chemical tollets set up right on Carver Beach Road. They're right on the road itself, maybe 5 feet back from the curb and so yeah. If they're well maintained, whlch ls what I think should, that may not be something that's addressed, and I would not mind actually seelng in the ordinances that they're maintained by a professional third party. I believe Ursula you had mentioned there was some discussion about having permanently constructed. I don't know. As just now a resident of the City, I don't know if I could like to have something that's not professionally maintained. What we had proposed was that it would be servlced under contract at least once a week so that we know that it's taken care of. That the disposal of the chemicals are not an lssue wlth the environment. None of the residents want to see that stuff go into the lake and I think that's something that should 15 City Council Meeting - Hatch 25, 1991 be in the ordinance to prevent any kind of abuse. That way you know it's being externally maintained and monitored. Mayor Chmiel: Yes, that's part of the Planning Commission's recommendation. That it be commercial taken care of. Lee: Yeah. Ursula had mentioned that there was some discussion about a permanently built one. I don't know that that makes sense because that will fall into disarray very quickly I would guess in all likelihood. As far as the setback if it were, I don't know that, I see you're proposing ?$ feet here. If it were professionally maintained and properly anchored, would it matter 50 feet back? I'm just thinking now of our specific layout. It might be close. We're probably at what I would call a normal water line. Where we would propose to have it, it's very close to the 75 foot mark and if it were professionally maintained once a week, would it matter if it was 50 feet back but st111 supported so that it was tip resistent? Ooes that really matter? Mayor Chmiel: Jo Ann, do you have any? Jo Ann: One of the reasons we used ?5 feet was the shoreland setback and then .just to remove it as far as possible if there's a tip over. There are going to be circumstances where there are recreational beachlots that don't have that depth. I don't have any in front of me so I can't but it seems like where there were those situations where you don't have that depth. It can be all contained so it wouldn't get in over land. Mayor Chmiel: It also indicates in here...setback from ordinary high water mark shall be ?5 feet. Side and front yard setbacks shall be maximized to achleve maximum screening from adjacent lots and the lake. Some of those are the considerations that are taken lnto lt. Lee: I actually think that's a pretty good recommendation. The only other thlng that I guess I would polnt out is if we have to apply for annual permlts. Are you going to have a list of authorized vendors to make it real simple or authorize third party servlce? Jo Ann Olsen: I'm sure that wouldn't be, that would be real easy for us to provide that to you. Lee: Yeah, that might be something to consider. If you've got a recommended or approved list that you, that the clty knows will provide professional services. Z'm not too concerned about our group because we'll probably go with one of the major suppliers but I'm thinking now of other people around the lake who start using them, will that be subject to abuse. And the last questlon Z have is, once it's approved do we have to come back for an annual permit? Is there going to be an annual fee? Councilman Wing: You bet. Lee: How much? Jo Ann Olsen: For the cost of the review? 16 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1991 Lee: Yeah. What's the permit going to be set at? Mayor Chmiel: I think it will be very minimal like maybe $500.00 a year. No, I'm klddlng. I would imaglne that's something. Councilwoman Oimler: A conditional use permit is $150.00. The original. And then every year just to review without a fee is the way I understood it. Lee: Okay, so you would expect it would be a one time but every year we should flle a plan? Councilwoman Oimler: Yes. To make sure you're still in compliance with the ordinance. Lee: And after that, and you sald you expect there would be no fee after that? Councilwoman Oimler: That's my understanding was. That once you pay for the conditional use permit, then you just have an annual review but no fee. Lee: Okay. No, I think that would be fine and part of the renewal.I think should lnclude a copy of the contract and so on so that you know lt's going to be properly maintained. But I'm real pleased to see this change. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. I don't see there being any further discussion. We'll pull this from the agenda and I don't thtnk we even have to have a motion on that proposal do we? Okay. Councilwoman Dimler: Can we make a few comments? Mayor Chmiel: Certainly. Councilwoman Dimler: I guess I agree with Lee's comment about, I thlnk June 15th is kind of an arbitrary date. I think I mould like to see it go in at Labor Day. That's when most plcnlcs start. And maybe let it go, I mean Memorial Day. Did I say Labor Oay? Mayor Chmiel: Yes you did. Councilwoman Dimler: I'm sorry. Memorial Day. And then have it go a little bit beyond Labor Day so they have time to get it off. Maybe September 5th. Sometimes Labor Day is a little bit later than September Sth. It's been as late as September 9th so maybe we want to move it until the 11th or something like that. Mayor Chmiel: We can probably determine that. Jo Ann Olsen: Or we can just keep the holidays. You can just, it doesn't have to be a speclfic date. Councilwoman Oimler: Yeah, just keep it to the holidays. Memorial Day to Labor Day. Mayor Chmiel: Any other discussion? 17 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1991 Councilman Mason: Steve, real quickly. What was their rationale for having... Steve Emmings: ...Z think that in our experience.., Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any other discussion? If not, we'll move on to the next item. Councilman Workman: Do you need a motlon on that? Mayor Chmiel: No. Councilwoman Dimler: Do you need a motion to table it? Mayor Chmiel: No. No, we just pulled it. Councilman Wing: With the neighbor's consent, just to clarify, is only if it's not going to be screened. It doesn't require neighbor's consent unless lt's not going to be screened. Is 'that correct? Roger Knutson: Well you really can't delegate that to the neighbors. That's one of the thlngs we have to. Mayor Chmlel: No, you'd have to do that. Making sure it's screened properly. Councilman Workman: My only comment on this whole thing is this lies in the face of everything that we're trylng to do in thls city with lakes. Cleanliness and I can't understand. I can understand why we want to do this. I can't, I mean I'm not that lgnorant but I ,just, everything surrounding these portable toilets, visually, sensory, and other. I understand the relief that they bring to people who are golng to stay at the beachlots all day but boy, for what they do, the potential risk, I can't understand how we're. It just seems 11ke we're klnd of letting this thing go a little easy. I guess I'd be curlous to flnd out, as we got a little more tlme to find out what Eden Pralrie, Bloomington, Burnsvllle, Eagan, EdJ. na, Hlnnetonka and Whlte Bear Lake know about these thlngs that we don't because they all said no. Don't do it. Mayor Chmiel: Well, maybe lt's something that we can find out. Councilwoman Oimler: I was just going to say that in this comments that we've got from Mr. Hasek. He says that the yearly phospherous loading come~ from ducks and geese about 11% and I was thinking that maybe we could teach them to use the chemical rollers lnstead. Councilman Workman: Diaper service. Mayor Chmiel: Anybody else? If not, we'll move on. Councilman Wing: I might just comment that they are in existence and the beaches have them at thls time and all thls ls trylng to do is control an already existing situation. councilwoman Dimler: Yes. And you have the ducks and geese on your lot rlght? 18 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1991 COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: DISCUSSION OF CITY GOLF COURSE, COUNCILMAN WORKHAN. Councilman Workman: This is brought up, it sort of sprouted from the Planning Commission and Joan Ahrens, Planning Commissioner took it to the Park and Rec Commission to which I got involved a little bit. I've been involved ever since we were down in Atlanta and I was wondering why all these golf organizations are always hanging out at these National Cities Conferences. The reason they're doing that is because cities are getting more and more involved into golf courses. Owning municipal golf courses for the preservation of open space and recreation and everything else. And so anyway, Joan Ahrens and I did a little speaking in front of the Park and Rec Commission and we'd like to keep this alive so my reason for putting it on here is two fold. One, I would like to get your ali's input as to what you think of that idea on the surface and then secondly, I would like, we would like to get together a group of 5 people. Two of them being Joan Ahrens and one Mr. Batzii from the Planning Commission, the other myself and then probably one other Council member and at least a Park and Rec Commissioner and leave staff out until we get our wits about us and then get staff's involved with it and then go from there. See if we can make this a reality. If that's a possibility. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, any other discussion? Councilman Wlng: I'll support Mr. Workman's attempt to get thls off of dead center and cooperate any way that I can, including serving on that committee. And I also state publlcally, I am not a golfer and I w111 certainly defend the rights of the non-golfers but this seems like an excellent way to enhance our city. Mayor Chmiei: I sort of agree to a certain point except knowing what costs are as far as the acquisition of property for the land. Totai numbers of acres. Aiso, once getting that goif course into shape, and I did ask Don to find out from the City of Becket which recently put in a goIf course, an 18 hole, I think it's probabIy about 2 years ago. Beautifui course. Haven't had an opportunity to play it yet but I will. But to find out what the total costs are before we initially move off into anything and I think we should know that particular part of it. I think it's probably not a bad idea. We have one course here. Of course we have courses all around us as well. Whether it would be supportive for the City. That's another question. Some cities are making money on their's, some are not and so those are some of the considerations I think we're going to have to look at as well. Councilman Workman: Don, as you've known over the last couple of years. I'm not interested in the City making money off of people. I think they have an unfair advantage. Between Joan Ahrens and myself, and I gave some information to Todd and that's just the tip of the iceberg. It's a corporation called Golf One. They finance golf courses for cities based on the receipts. We have a golf COUrSe in the city right now. It's a golf course that, if you're a golfer, you're not that excited about playing on and you'll play somewhere else. Possibilities with that golf course. I talked with Lundgren Brothers about the potential possibility of them doing it. They thought of developing a golf course housing project on the north side with the project they're going to be City Council Heeling - March 25, 1991 bringing to us probably this summer. The land costs there were too high for them to do it. I would say there's no less than... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Councilman Wing; ...I think this is very preliminary and just a very brief information group. Councilwoman Oimler: That's fine with me. Councilman Workman: In talking to Hike, open space, like the comment on the Park and Rec, 300 acres of wooded, nice land is not going to sit open. Not if own it and I'm not making any money. It's either golng to be farmland or it's going to be swamp because open land, quality open land is not going to be found tn this town in the next 15 to 20 years, if that unless something ls done to preserve open space. I don't know of any other way you can preserve large tracts of open space. Granted lt's going to be contoured into a golf course but it [s going to be open and it's not going to be tract housing. And we probably aren't golng to have much ag here. So I don't know, what I'm saying is 300 acres of open space idea does not pay for ltself and if anybody in this room owns that land, it's going to be developed very qulckly, if it lsn't already intended for that purpose. So in order to get open land, you have to compromise. Councilman Wing: Or bond for i~. Councilman Workman: So who wants to get on board? Mayor Chmiel: I think you have Dick indicated he would. Councilman Wing: Do I need the Mayor's permission? Mayor Chmiel: No, you don't need my permission. But who else wants to sit on that? Councilman Wing: I'll certainly work with Tom and is this a committee that's being approved by the Council just for preliminary information? Mayor Chmiel: It's not officially we're golng to take any stance on it right now because we don't have enough information in total dollars as to what it might be. Councilwoman Dim].er: Your meetings might even be open. Mayor Chmiel: Informally. Councilman Wing: Certainly, they should be. Councilman Workman: I think it's a good idea. It's definitely a long way off but it's golng to go nowhere if we do nothing. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, any other discussion? If not. 2O City Council Meeting - March 25, 1991 Councilman Wing: On that subject? I wanted to comment Don that on this approval of agenda, that was a new term to me and I wasn't quick enough. I was waiting for approval of the agenda and then I realized I was supposed to speak. I would just request, if I'm not out of order, a quick comment under item 7. Council Presentations. On the next Council agenda I'd just like to have the issue of the, I'd like to hear the report from the University of Minnesota Goose Removal program and how it affects the City and the possibility of continuation for 1991 and subsequent years. I would just like to, for your sake Mr. Mayor, just put on the record these pictures of my dock. July, 1990 after the goose removal last year. Councilwoman Dimler: Ah, that's phospherous loading for sure. Councilman Wing: My request is that it simply be placed on the agenda next meeting. Mayor Chmiel: In other words, where Bambi goes nothing grows. Okay, we'll move on to our administrative presentation. UPDATE ON SWINGS CONDITIONAL USE PERHIT, SENIOR PLANNER. Jo Ann Olsen: Last fall the owner of Swings started to do some grading on his slte wlthout a permit. We went out to put a stop work order on the site and he did pursue with a grading permit but what he was doing actually ended up being an expansion of the conditional use permlt above what was approved. 5o as part of that grading permit he had to make an application to come in for an amended conditional use permlt so that he could brlng bls slte lnto compliance. He has not done this after contacts by staff. So originally we were going to bring it on the agenda for conslder of revocation of the CUP or the conditional use permit. Instead what we're going to do ls just have the attorney's office pursue John wlth a letter statlng that he ls in violation of the conditional use permit and pursue it that way and hopefully get him to make an application. If not, we will go after hlm agalnst the violation of the conditional use permlt. We felt this was a better way. If we revoke the permit, then actually those conditions are no longer there for us to enforce and we might as well get to the legal process now. I know that John was in today and was aware of this and said he was golng to be here but I don't see hlm. Just wanted to make you aware that we're doing this internally and that's it. We'll let you know what happens. Mayor Chmiel: Is there anyone else that would like to address the issue? Don Ashuorth: If I may. I did see John in this afternoon. He did seem happy ...so I'm assumlng that he read the report and he's accepting that. Mayor Chmiel: There's only one thing on item number 3 that I looked at. It says prlor to November 15, 1990 or should that be 19917 Jo Ann Olsen: No. That was part of the original grading permit so that was 1990 that he had to do that. Mayor Chmiel: Any discussion? John, would you like to come up? Just state your name and address please? 21 City Council Meeting - Hatch 25, 1991 3ohn Hennessy: 3ohn Hennessy, 7305 Galpin Blvd.. Mr. Pryzmus is doing I'd say a respectable job out there as faf' as appearance of the project and everything. The only thing that concerns me is something a little more generic. It's the precedence that the city is setting. There's no bite to the ordinance. I mean he was out there for a month and a half without a permit. I mean how does this go on that long? I see the City cars going up and down Galpin 81vd. so I know they're doing inspections out there in Pheasant Hills and other places along our road. So why do things just keep going on and on without any enforcement? And this isn't the first time. John's been battling with the City for as long as us'ye lived there, 8-9 years. It's well meaning and everything. Hayor Chmiel: Haybe somebody would like to address that specific question. 3o Ann Olsen: As soon as ue were alerted to that he was grading illegally out there we did put a stop order immediately. That doesn't necessarily stop him. so what we did try to do is try to work with him to get the site, because when ue were made aware that it was already, there were piles of dirt. There were piles of dirt up against the creek also so what ue tried to do is to get the site restored as best possible. That's where we went through the grading permit with him to hopefully get him to comply with that and he did pull the dirt back. But I know that it looks like we're not doing anything but actually we are working on it. John Hennessy: Well I know it's not like you have nothing to do up here. 3o Ann Olsen: But it takes a while you know as far as going through that grading permit and then also to get him to comply. John Hennessy: Has the area to the creek been restored as faf' as drainage? Jo Ann Olsen: Yes. They pulled the dirt back from the creek. From the edge of the creek. He didn't really get into the creek to impact it. Yes, we pulled the dirt back and got that out of there. That was our main concern. John Hennessy: Okay. Thank you. Don Ashworth: If I could partially respond as well. And again, I haven't talked to Joh recently on thls item but we had come to agreement with him as to things that he was to do out at that site. Then he ran lnto some difficult financial times and literally it was not until the City had actually consummated the acquisition of the property downtown that a number of financial conditions that were following John around were actually cleared up. I know during those negotiations he had continued to state to me, Don I'd like to get this thing wrapped up and get some money available because I really want to take and clean up the golf course project but I just haven't been able to do a thing out there bocause of some of these other problems. He should have gotten a hold of us and verlfled what he was dolng but I guess that's just not John. Mayor Chmiel: Mr. Emmings. Steve Emmlngs: Hr. Pryzmus has been in front of the Planning Commission several times and Z know tllis is one of those cases where the City keeps bending over backwards and is not met halfway and I know there are some new Counc11 members City Council Meeting - March 25, 1991 who may not be aware of the whole history but I know ~e've chased him out of the ~etland in the past and told him he can't fill in there. He filled in there once before without permission and we chased hlm out of there and now it sounds like he's working down by the creek. There's no question in my mind he knows full well that he's dolng thlngs that the City would not permlt and he seems to just do what he wants to. I think it's important to put that into perspective with it. Mayor Chmiel: Good. Thank you Steve. Any other discussion? Hearing none, I will make a motion to adjourn the meeting. Councilman Workman: So moved. Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second? Councilwoman Dimler: Second. Hayor Chmiel moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to adjourn t~e meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 8:45 p.m.. Submitted by Don Ashworth City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 23