1991 02 11CZT¥ COUNCZL HEETZNG
REGULAR flEETING
FEBRUARY 11, 1991
Mayor Chmlel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. The meeting was opened
with the Pledge to the Flag.
COUNC~LHEHBER$ PRESENT: Hayor Chmiel, Councilman Workman, Councilman Wing,
Councilwoman Oimler and Councilman Hason
STAFF PRESENT: Paul Krauss, 3o Ann 01sen, Todd Hoffman, Todd Gerhardt, Roger
Knutson and Charles Folch
APPROVAl. OF /tGENI:Lq: Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Hason seconded to
approve the agenda with the following addition under Council Presentation:
Councilwoman Dimler wanted to discuss the Southwest Hetro Transit Board's budget
reduction. All voted in favor of the agenda as amended and the motion carried.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEtflENT: PROCLPJIRTZON ESTAI)LISHI)~) Fb~RCH 3-10 ~S '90LUNTEER
RE¢OGNZTION gEEK',
Mayor Chmiel: The resolution reads as such. Whereas the Uolunteers of America,
a Christian Social Service organization, is celebrating its 9Sth year of service
to the people of Minnesota and the nation; tt is therefore certainly
approrpriate for us to join in the observance of this milestone with the
commemoration of March 3-10, 1991 as Volunteers of America Week; and Whereas,
the Uolunteers of America is making a valuable contribution to the people of
Minnesota by providing services for children and youth, adults and the elderly,
and offenders and ex-offenders. Whereas, the ¥olunteers of America through it's
compassionate yet practical crusade, is extending spiritual fellowship as it
provides relief where it ts most urgently needed; and Whereas, the Uolunteers of
America is commemorating its founding in 1896 and urges others to uphold the
American philanthropic spirit through their commitment to help those tn need.
Now Therefore, Be It Resolved, that I, Donald 3. Chmiel, Mayor of the City of
Chanhassen do hereby proclaim the week of March 3-10, 1991 as ¥olunteers of
America Week in Chanhassen. Further, that a copy of this proclamation be
transmitted to the ¥olunteers of America office as evidence of our esteem.
Passed and adopted by this Counctl on the 11th day of February, 1991.
Res¢lutLon Jt91-12: CouncLlman #orkman moved, Councilwoman Otmler seconded to
adopt the resolution proclaiming the ~eek of Harch 3-10, 1991 as 9oluntsers of
America Week. A11 voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman #orkman moved, Councilman Itason seconded to approve
the following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City tlanager's
recommendat ions:
a. Approve Development Contract, Chart Haven Plaza.
f. Approve Access and Initial Development Plan, Herman Field Park.
g. Accept Donation from the Chaska Lions Club for the Park and Recreation
Department.
city council Meeting - February ll, i99i
h. Request to Extend Approval of Front, Rear and both Side Yard Variances, 9247
Lake Riley Blvd., James Jessup
i. Ordinance Amendlng Chapter 9, Article $ of the City Code Regarding the Fire
Code, Second Reading.
j. Zoning Ordinance Amendment to Allow Emission Control Testing Stations as
Conditional Use Permits in the BH and IOP Districts, Second Reading.
k. Approval of Accounts.
1. City Council Minutes dated January 28, 1991 as amended by Councilman Workman
on pages 18 and 19.
Park and Recreation Commission Mlnutes dated January 22, 1991
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
E. APPROVE SOUTH LOT.&~S LAKE BOAT ACCESS SITE AND DRAINAGE STUDY.
Mayor Chmiel: I pulled this off because I thought that there were some specific
thlngs of concern to me. One of those belng the estlmate of a probable cost
that we're looking totally at this, the total estimated project cost ts golng to
run roughly about $40,587.00 and I thlnk there are some thlngs in here that
could be shaved a little. I'm looking at some specifics regarding fieldstone
boulder wall that we're looking at as a little rlp rapplng down at the park. In
additton to that, I know that they've had some problems wlthin a specific area
whereby there was a problem with that 100 year storm caused some eroslon wlthln
a particular part. Quite ironic we had two of those in one year. Supposedly
not to happen wlthln 100 years but we did have two wlthin one speolflc year.
I've had some discussions with Todd on this and I had one other question in the
VanOoren Report. Page 1. They lndicate thls additional area, in the last
paragraph the fourth line from the bottom. The additional area has caused
retention ponds to frequently overflow causlng eroslon, sedimentation deposits
throughout the project area. Do you know how many times that did happen by
chance?
Todd Hoffman: To quantify the word frequently?
Mayor Chmiel: Yes.
Todd Hoffman: Over the past, it would just be an estimated over the past 3
years. Specifically I think what they were reporting on is the area of those
two tlmes. Other than that, unless we're into a 2 1nob raln, I wouldn't thlnk
that we're not going to overflow that upper area...corrections they are
proposing will handle. We are restrloted by the physical area whlch ls
available there. Corrections to that upper area which they had outltned there
wlll help that so the frequency of that wlll go down. There st111 is the chance
that we may have that overflow in that upper parking but that's not where the...
Getting the water down to that low area and then...lower holding pond on out.
That's where the major concern is.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, okay. I see that financing the project can be funded from
the following sources. We have the Soil Conservation, Environmental Trust Fund
City Council Meeting - February 11, 1991
and Park Acquisition and Development fund. Z think what Z'd really like to see
done with this is for you to re-review this and see what we can do am far as the
total dollar expenditure is concerned. [ know that we're getting these dollars
but we have to watch everybody's dollars all the way around. I'd looked at a
couple of the other things too Todd on that landscaping plan with the trees of
what's existing to what's being proposed. I know we're going to take some of
these from our own tree farm and I see that we're going to have 5 spring snow
crabs, 6 seedless ash, 1 norway maple and 10 cut leaf sumac. The purpose for
that sumac in the location that they're talking, is that an erosion area
problem?
Todd Hoffman: ! don't believe that's going to address an erosion problem as
more of an aesthetic factor as you drive down that area. Typically sumac isn't
planted as an erosion control measure.
Mayor Chmiel: It keeps a certain amount of ground from eroding and gives us
ability to base with the roots. Root system. That's why Z was wondering. I
guess basically those were some of my, some of the questions that I had. As I
mentioned and would like to see staff take this back. Look at it and hopefully
come in with a little better aspect. Probable cause for this. Hopefully you
can bring this back to Council within a couple of weeks.
Todd Hoffman: We can bring it on the next time. In talking to Scott Harri of
Van Doren, Hazard today, we did go over those alternatives. The stone boulder
wall was one of the most aesthetically pleasing as well the most sturdy to keep
that wall up. There are other alternatives being rip rap or...and we'll take a
look at those and decide which one of those will be the nicest option both in
the terms of the dollar cost as well as serving the purpose which we're trying
to obtain in retaining the integrity of that... It is real tight to the
driveway and we do not want it to be eroding underneath the driveway and causing
some structural problems there so we have to go in and do a major repair
project.
Mayor Chmiel= One of the other things I'd like to look at as well as plans and
specifications, bidding, staking and inspection as well. I think that's a
little bit high as far as I'm concerned. So with that one I would suggest that
that remain for the next Council agenda. I don't think there's any action
that's required.
V)$ITOR PRESENTATION: None.
PUBLIC HE(RIM6: ~ONSIOER APPROUAL OF A BLANKET V~RIANCE TO THE 75 FOOT WETLAND
SETBACK REQUIREMENT FOR LOTS LOCATED AO3ACENT TO THE CLASS B WETLAND IN
CHANHASSEN U~$T~ ~RD ANQ 4TH PJ)DITIONS.
Public Present:
Name Addres~
Oiana Maas 641 Conestoga Tra£1
City Council Meeting -- February 11, 1991
Councilman Workman: So moved.
Mayor Chmiel: We'll get just a short presentation. Thank you Tom. I appreciate
moving that quickly but maybe if you would give us.
Councilman Workman: You mean there's not a second for discussion?
Councilwoman Oimler: Should we close the public hearing first?
Councilman Workman: I thought we dld.
Mayor Chmiel: No. I'd like staff review first and then we'll open it for
discussion and then close lt.
Jo Ann Olsen: Brlefly, you've seen thls before where we thought that there was
an incorrect survey. The red shows what was shown on the site plans and the
preliminary plat and flnal plat and the green shows the correct wetland
boundary. Staff has gone through all the existing situations out there and has
also shown proposed decks and has come up wlth a 25 foot setback whlch would be
adequate to allow future additions to the 12 homes out there and to accommodate
the exlstlng structures. We do not feel that the 25 foot setback ls golng to be
a detriment to the wetland Just being with decks and the wetland is still in
good condition and would resolve the problems of the non-conforming structures
at this time. So we are recommending approval of the conditions in the report,
and I'll answer any questions.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you Jo Ann. Is there anyone wishing to address this
particular item at thls time? Come forward and please state your name and
address please.
Diana Maas: Hi. My name is Diana Maas, 641 Conestoga Trail. I just wanted
clarification on recommendation number 2. The term structure. There's a
standard deflntlon for that?
Jo Ann Olsen: Yes, there is a standard definition of a structure.
Mayor Chmlel: Anything permanently flxed to the ground.
Jo Ann Olsen: Anything permanently fixed to the ground. It could be a large
playground equipment. It could be a storage building. It's real broad.
Diana Maas: Okay. What if there's already something there? We put a fort and
a swlngset between our house and that area.
Jo Ann Olsen: That gets into, we are going to, reviewing the definition of
structure because there's certaln things that our zoning ordinance defines as a
structure but actually building code doesn't. Technically we have no control
over where you do put your swlngset or wood plles and thlngs 11ke that so unless
there were complaints, we really wouldn't be going for the swingset. It depends
on how large the structure ls.
Mayor Chmiel: I think interpretation by our ordinance, it indicates anything
that's permanently afflxed to the ground ls considered as a structure.
City Council Meeting - February
30 Ann Olsen: Well, the big play gyms could be considered structures then.
Diana Maas: What about fence?
30 Ann Olsen: Permanently affixed to the ground?
Diana Maas: Right.
30 Ann Olsen: Fences that go straight into the edge of the wetland we do permit
that. That they don't go into the wetland but up to the edge. THat's like a
dock setback too. It has to be within the water, within that 75 foot setback.
The fence you're got to look at.
Mayor Chmiel: Thanks. Anyone else? Seeing none I'll make a motion to close
the public hearing.
Councilman Workman: So moved.
Councilwoman Dimler: Second.
Mayor Chmiel: Any discussion? Dick?
Councilman Wing: I just wanted to ask about the non-conforming decks. There
were two decks involved in this. The discussion at the last council meeting
where those decks, one was going to be a double fine and the other one was
non-conforming to meet Code.
30 Ann Olsen: Both of them were built without permits. Both have now received
the building permits and they have paid the double fee.
Councilman Wing: No, but the one that didn't meet Code.
Jo Ann Olsen: That's being brought up to Code as part of their building permit
requirement.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay? We have a motion on the floor with a second. With the
City Council approving the blanket variance request ~91-1 to permit structures
within 35 feet of a Class B wetland edge on Lots 1-5, Block 4 Chanhassen Vista
3rd Addition.
Councilman Workman: Are we closing the hearing first?
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah.
Councilman Workman: Got you back.
Mayor Chmiel: And Lots 5-7, Block 3 Chanhassen Vista 4th Addition with the
following conditions. 1, variance is recorded aginst each separate lot. 2, the
wetland boundary is established at the 950 foot contour. 3, no alteration
beyond the 950 foot contour shall be permitted. This includes any removal of
vegetation or filling. Any structure closer than 35 feet from the wetland edge
shall not be permitted. There's a motion on the floor with a second to close
the public hearing.
City Council Meeting - February 11, 1991
Councilman Workman moved, Councilwoman Oimler seconded to close the public
hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was
closed.
Councilman Workman: I'll move your motion Don.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
Councilman Wing: Second.
Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve Blanket Variance
Request ~91-1 to permit structures within 35 feet of the Class B wetland edge on
Lots 1-5, Block 4, Chanhassen Vista 3rd Addition and Lots 5-7, Block 3,
Chanhassen Vista 4th Addition with the following conditions:
1. The variance is recorded against each separate lot.
2. The wetland boundary is established at the 950' contour.
3. No alteration beyond the 950' contour shall be permitted. This includes any
removal of vegetation or filling. Any structure closer than 35 feet from
the wetland edge shall not be permitted.
Ail voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
AWARD OF BIDS: PUBLZC WORKS EOUZPHENT.
Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor, the acquisition of these vehicles and equipment was a
part of the approved 1991 budget. A lot of effort was expensed on the part of
Harold Brose, the shop foreman to put together the very detailed specifications.
I think thls was very beneficial in the bids came in exceptionally oompetltive.
The total of the low bids for these vehicles and equipment is $163,443.00. The
budgeted amount for these 1rems, including the rear flall mower and the packer
trailer was estimated at $199,000.00. Thus the low bids are approximately 18~
less than that was estimated so I recommend approval of the purchase of the
listed vehtcles and equipment.
Mayor Chmlel: Thank you. Any discussions or questions? I liked the way Harold
pulled together information indicating how old the equipment is and so on. I
thought he dld a good job with that. It at least gives us a better ldea sltting
here and looklng at figures and knowing exactly what we're replacing. If no
discussions?
Councilwoman Dimler: I guess I'd like, I know there's an equipment replacement
fund but I'm just wondering and I'm not going to say anythlng about it this
year, but I'm wondering for the 1992 budget since everyone is having to cut, if
we couldn't look at that. I guess I'm a little concerned when we just keep, you
know even though I know they're 12 years old but there's many businesses out
there that are having to do ulth equipment that's older and I think as a clty we
ought to be setting klnd of an example.
Councilman Workman: Freeze?
City Council Meeting - February 11, 1991
Councilwoman Dimler: Yeah, right. That's what I'm saying.
Mayor Chmiel: You're right. We're gotng to have a lot.
Councilwoman Dlmler: So I thlnk in 1992 I'd 11ke to take a close look at that
because that's an awful lot of money to spend on vehicles.
Mayor Chmlel: When we revlew budgets, that's the time for us to indicate our
concern.
Councilman Wing: During budget time ! wasn't here. $50,000.00 for a lawn
mower. You obviously have seen Justifications for that and are comfortable with
that?
Mayor Chmiel: You're talking about the Toro 580 B? Well it's really not
$$0,000.00. It's $49,980.00.
Councilman Workman: Well we've trlpled our park stze and stuff.
Mayor Chmiel: That's part of the problem. With total numbers of people that we
have, it's a larger klnd of mower and one thing that I'd really like to see done
is when we hire these part timers, and I watched them down at our park, they be
given speclflc instructions on how to operate those vehicles. Or those mowers
as well because there's a large dollar investment. Naybe If we said that if
they broke something they had to pay it they mtght drive them a little more
cautiously than what they have been doing. Any other discussion? If hearing
none, I'll entertain a motion.
Councilman Workman: I'd move the award of bids for public works vehicles and
equipment -
Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second?
Councilman Mason: Second.
Resolution ~191-13: Councilman Rorkman moved, Councilman Ma~on ~econclecl to a~ard
the btds for the Public Works Vehicles and Equipment as folloas:
Low Bidder
Lakeland Ford Truck
Waconia Ford Mercury
Veh;L~le/Eq~ipment
1991 Ford F-800 Cab & Chassis
Bid .
$30,562.00
One 1991 Ford F-250 4x4 and
one 1991 Ford F-250 2-wheel drive $29,990.00
Midland Equipment
Crysteel Equipment
Vermeer Sales and Service
Lano Equipment
Dumpbody and Sander
Henke Reversible Snowplow
Vermeer Chipper
Ford 4630 Tractor
$ 9,980.00
$ 7,474.00
$11,400.00
$10,000.00
City Council Meeting - February ii, 1991
Land Equipment
MTI Distributing Company
Motorola Communications
Edwards HM 7472 Flail Mower
Toro 580 0 Mower
Three (3) 2-Way Radios
Ail voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
7,575.00
$49,980.00
2,250.00
_~UTHORIZE UPDATE OF FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR TET.QN LANE AND LILAC LA.NE. PROJECT
91-4.
Charles Folch: Teton Lane from Lilac Avenue south to Ashton Court is currently
a substandard street section by the Clty's current standard and it is barricaded
at the intersection with Ashton Court.
Mayor Chmiel: Charles, are you aware, and I'm sorry for interrupting, that that
is really not a clty street?
Charles Folch: I guess I was, I'm not aware of that condition.
Mayor Chmiel: We've had discussions on this for quite some time. Quite a few
different situations and we really have had a lot of people in here to dlscuss
thls speclflc happening that we've got here. I would thlnk that ue should
probably look at thts a little closer than what's indicated in the information
that's provided.
Paul Krauss: Mr. Mayor, the street that exists now is barricaded, it built in a
public right-of-way.
Jo Ann Olsen: It 18 a public street.
Paul Krauss: It's not being used as such right now but it's my understanding
that back when the adjacent plat was developed, that it was set aside in that
condition unttl properties in the area were developed. As I recall, there were
a number of individuals who maintained that their property wouldn't develop.
Mayor Chmiel: That's correct.
Paul Krauss: Under this proposal that we're seeing now, one of the major
property owners, Mr. Oonovan who was one of the people who indicated he wouldn't
develop hls property ls now se111ng his property for development...
Mayor Chmiel: Never going to happen.
Jo Ann Olsen: But the City does own that right-of-way now as part of the Curry
Farms subdivision. That was turned over to the Clty.
Charles Folch: I believe it's like 33 feet wide.
3o Ann Olsen: So technically.
City Council Meeting - February 11, 1991
Mayor Chmiel: I guess ! still, in remembering ail the discussions that we had
with that, some of this just doesn't hit me the way that it probably should.
But maybe why don't you go ahead and ! see some people that just came in who may
discuss this as well. So why don't you go ahead.
Charles Folch: Okay. The current situation was a result and deemed an
appropriate solution at the time of Curry Farms development given all the issues
as you're sort of relating to, that were involved and were raised at that time
and given the fact that Mr. Natoli would be the only property making use of that
portion of Teton Lane. And at that time none of the adjacent property owners to
that segment of Teton Lane had given any intent of wanting to subdivide their
property which would change the use of that street segment. Rs Paul had
mentioned, we now have a perspective developer for that 10 acre parcel to the
west of Teton Lane owned by Mr. Oonovan. This potential development in all
likelihood will impact the needs and change the use of Teton Lane and a portion
of Lilac Lane. also a feasibility study really needs to be performed or updated
to address the needed improvements that this potential subdivision would incur.
And of course also recommend some assessment strategies to recover the cost of
improvements. It may also involve, this project may also involve a cooperative
agreement with the City of mhorewood since the City of Shorewood owns Lilac
Lane. As you're aware, £ngelhardt and Associates prepared the previous
feasibility study of Teton Lane and they are very informed and versed as to the
previous issues that were raised with the street improvement. Therefore [ would
recommend that a feasibility study for Teton Lane and Lilac Lane be approved and
that £ngelhardt and Associates be designated as the appropriate engineer on the
project and ! would condition that upon receiving an acceptable letter of credit
or cash escrow from the developer to secure the cost of this feasibility study.
Councilman Workman: Charles? Is Donovan doing this or somebody else?
Jo Ann Olsen: Somebody else.
Councilman Workman: Somebody else is, wants to do a feasibility study in
relationship to Donovan's property when he doesn't know about it?
3o Ann Olsen: They're purchasing the property.
Councilman Workman: From Oonovan?
Paul Krauss: Yes.
Councilman Workman: Is Oonovan selling his property?
Marc Simcox: No. He says he's not. I talked to him Saturday. He says he
doesn't know anything about this. Now unless he's giving me a story and ! don't
know why he would. He says he's completely unaware of it.
Charles Folch: Well we have the developer who has hired an engineer and has
spent a considerably amount of time already preparing.
Mayor Chmiel: Who's the developer Charles?
City Council Meeting - February 11, 1991
Charles Folch: James Development Company I believe is the name of the
applicant.
Councilman Workman: Charlie James?
Paul Krauss: No. No, this is an individual that used to work with Trammel
Crow's residential group...but it's his firm that's behind the large development
that Eden Prairie approved southeast of Dell Road.
Councilman Workman: I guess until we're ready to undertake and we can apologize
to the Natolt's and Mr. Simcox. This has been the weirdest lssue I've had to
deal wlth.
Florence Natoll: Can I talk a mlnute?
Mayor Chmiel: You certainIy may. Just state your name and address.
FLorence Natoli: You know. I'm Florence Natoli. Okay. A couple of days ago
some fellow came to the door and first he called and then he came to see Frank
and Z knew it was going to be something stupid again so I went out and did my
chores. When I came in my poor husband was all excited. This fellow, whoever
he ls, bought the 11ttle house in the back. That monstrouslty that w111
probably never be anything because he was told that he could not make a road out
to number 17 so he wanted to go through our land and make a road alongside us. I
don't know what, 60 feet wide or something and he was going to develop the back
and he said, at the time that Donovan was developing. Oonovan was going to sell
so that land would be developed. There would be houses all around us so in
other words we'd better just pack our sultcase and get out of there. And so we
talked to Marc and he said well I'll talk to James Oonovan and Oonovan knows
nothlng about thls at a11. So I don't know what the name of the fellow was that
came to see Frank about buying our land or subdividing it or building and then
paylng us. Zt was qulte a process. So I don't know the information, where thls
information is coming from that thls is being developed. He wanted to buy our
land and then that would glve hlm a chance to have a road so he could put houses
out in our back acre and his land is right next to ours. He was gotng to really
develop thls back there but it was also golng to lnclude Oonovan. That's the
story in back of it. Thank you.
Mayor Chmlel: Thank you.
Florence Natoli: I promised I'd never come back here once you got that road
closed and here I am again. By the way, the people in the neighborhood love it
closed. We have people walking their dogs and thelr klds and skateboarding and
bicycling. I mean it's great. No problem at a11. Everyone seems to be real
happy wlth it belng closed. It's 11ke a second park. They don't have to go in
that other park. So we now know it Isn't the Curry Farms people that are asking
for this.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Paul.
Paul Krauss: Mr. Mayor if I could clarlfy that. I think we have two separate
issues here that just happen to be occurring at the same time. We have a
developer who made representations for Mr. Donovan's property who's asking for
10
City Council Meeting - February
the feasibility study tonight. If the Council so desires, you may wish to table
action on that and we could see if there's actually a purchase agreement of some
sort that's been worked out and bring that back to you. Then we have a
property, [ believe next to near Mrs. Natoli's on the east side that's an old
home that's gone back to HUD [ believe and Housing and Urban Development was
selling that and we've been contacted by any number of individuals who see a
bargain there and wanted to get access out across another city owned parcel out
to CE 17 which we had indicated that we're not real receptive to. ~nd some
individuals have thought about subdividing it, possibly working out an
arrangement with one of the adjoining property owners to get access out to
Teton. $o far people have just talked to us about that and ! don't know who is
going around the neighborhood and talking about that but there is no firs
application or request at all on that particular property. But to the best of
my knowledge, that issue or the Oonovan parcel issue are completely unrelated.
They just happen to be occurring about the same time.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I think as far as I'm concerned, this probably should be
tabled until we know that there actually is something happening. ! had some
discussions with some people and that's why I brought up the fact as to what I
did. I would like us to then take a look at it because we went through a lot of
painstaking concerns and eliminated a lot of given problems at that particular
time. And until you see a purchase price for that property or a contract for
deed or whatever, I think we should do that.
Councilwoman Dimler= ! just have a question of Chuck. I guess I'm not real
clear onto who's going to pay for this study. Why is the City getting involved
at this point?
Charles Folch: Well typically what happens is when you have a developer who's
petitioning the City or wants to develop and there's some needed public
improvements to be associated wlth the project, if they're not wlthin their
property or rights to do the improvements, they can petition the City to do the
improvements and then we require that a feasibility study be done and that they
pay for the cost of the feasibility study.
Counciluoman Dimler: Okay but this without a purchase agreement and everything
that he's coming in here?
Charles Folch: I guess I was unaware, I didn't really go that far into finding
out the exact financial situation. The perspective developer met with the City
staff here and thelr englneer and presented a number of drawings because there
was extensive work on development proposals for the property and it seemed like
in all likelihood that they were probably had good tntents of buytng the
property or had some sort of tentative purchase agreement because money and
effort was spent on doing design for the project.
Councilwoman 0imler: Okay, thank you.
Councilman Workman: A feasibility study doesn't hurt us or help us I guess.
Maybe it helps us in the long run to figure out what's going to happen. I've
been told so many different thlngs about this property. 99 year trust that it
never would be developed and can't be developed and here it is being developed.
I don't know that a feasibility study w111 hurt us. If a person wants to spend
11
City Council Meeting - February 11, 1991
their money, they can spend their money any way they want. Obviously I think
the Council's only real concern is what's going to happen to the barricade and
isn't that what we're all worrying about? I mean this doesn't take down the
barricade but it does put pressure on.
Councilwoman Dimler: Well it interferes with previous agreements perhaps.
Councilman Workman: I would agree. And that's why I think, unless if Oonovan
isn't, I guess we don't need the anxiety, both from the neighborhood and not on
ourselves, considering what we've gone through until we've got a solid idea
about what somebody really wants to do here and then I don't know that we'd
want to approve it then but I just, I don't understand the nature of this whole
thing. After all these deals went through and the barricade went up and what it
took to get that done and now in light of that, somebody coming in and wanting
to klnd of poke at that. I don't know.
Councilwoman Oimler: My other concern is that if we approve a feasibility study
now before I can see why we need to get involved, ls that klnd of 11kw saylng
okay we're going to approve your project? You know it's kind of a lead in and I
don't necessarily agree with that.
Councilman Mason: I'm kind of curious as to why they would want a feasibility
study even before there was a purchase agreement in the flrst place. I mean is
this kind of, I don't know. It kind of seems like the backwards way for any
developer to do thls.
Councilman Workman: Well why buy the property before you know something can be
done is the object. Let's spend $5,000.00 rather than $100,000.00 to buy the
property.
Mayor Chmiel: It just works vice versa too. Same thing.
Councilman Workman: But I'd rather spend $5,000.00 than $200,000.00 before I
found out lf.
Mayor Chmiel: Would you like to come forth?
Narc Simcox: Narc Simcox. I live on Lilac Lane. I'm not a resident of
Chanhassen but maybe I should be. I don't know. The only thing that I'm
curious about, everyone's confused about what's going on and I did speak to Jim
Oonovan Saturday and I don't know. Maybe he has been talklng wlth a developer.
He said I think last year when he sold the small house off, that he went through
some, he had some problems wlth some other thlngs that he had to take care of
and that he was then not going to sell the other property. There's a couple
thlngs about that property. It's not 10 acres. It's 9 and I think part of it
is wetland but I'm not sure about that. I'm not positive about that. Number 3,
I always understood that when there was a feasibility study, it generally
focused on something and it focused on the feasibility of something. Not just
to develop the property. Usually there was a fixed plan of some type or another
or an array of plans and it doesn't seem like any of that's been proposed at all
to base a feasibility study on. Maybe I don't understand it but it seems to me
that there should be, everyone would like to find out, I think it sounds like,
something a 11ttle more concrete but it would seem to me that there should be a
12
City Council Meeting - February
process, or at least there was the last time on the Teton Lane project that
there was a plan and a definite course of action be taken in one or the other.
Several course of action based on the outcome of the feasibility study. $o I'm
just curious as to how that works and if there's some clarification on that.
Whether or not it should go through the Planning Commission first or something.
I'm not sure.
Charles Folch: Well basically the main issue revolves in developing this
property, the developer needs access to the site. Whether that comes off
of Lilac, whether that comes off of Teton and he needs to know what the cost of
those improvements are going to be because he is certainly one of the larger
shareholders benefitting from any street improvements or utility improvements to
the site. And I guess that was the intent of the feasibility study is to
address the needs of the site as far as access and what sort of upgrades, both
utility and streets would be needed to Teton Lane and a portion of Lilac.
Mayor Chmiel: Right. Paul.
Paul Krauss: Mr. Mayor, ! don't know if I can clarify things very much with
this because quite honestly I don't know if there's an existing purchase
agreement. I do know that this is not the first developer to come talk to us
about this property so clearly the property is in play as they say with or
without the owner's knowledge because a lot of people have been calling on it.
Mr. $imcox is correct. It's e acres now because Mr. Oonovan sold off and
platted off an acre on the corner last fall. There is a small wetland area near
Curry Farms that we've made Mr. Oonovan aware of that would be protected. The
plans that we've seen I think had something on the order of 20 lots laid out
depending on with different configurations. I guess one of the fundamental
questions here is the developer, as is staff, is somewhat at a loss to figure
out the best way to proceed with laying out a development for this property.
There's a lot of different options for runnlng roads tnto there and we're hoping
that some of those issues could be clarified by this study. The study is a no
risk option for the City. You have no commitment to build anything. You're not
going to have to pay for it out of City funds. The developer would fund it and
you're not committed to doing a project that might be suggested from it. Now
we'll try to get to the bottom of this and see what, if any contractual
arrangements the developer has with Mr. Donovan and ~e'll try to clear that up
for you but Mr. Oonovan's property is a developable site and on the assumption
that somebody someday can come up with something that meets the ordinance, we
can expect that it could accommodate single family homes.
Mayor Chmiel: Well I'd like to see some of those things cleared up. I'd just
as soon table it at this particular time until we get that information that
we're looking for as well.
Councilwoman Dimler: See this is again, why does the City have to approve a
feasibility study?
Mayor Chmiel: We don't.
Councilwoman Oimler: He can go ahead and do it. Why are we getting involved?
13
City CounciI Meeting - February
Paul Krauss: This would ultimately be used for public improvements if you would
authorize it. We could have, I mean their engineer has already done some of the
work but as a public project, normally we would want our engineer or somebody
working for us doing the design works so that they're responsible to us and not
to the developer.
Mayor Chmiel: Alright.
Councilwoman Dimler: I move to table.
Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second7
Councilman Mason: Second.
Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Mason seconded to table authorizing an
update of a feasibility study for Teton Lane and Lilac Lane for further
clarification. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
ADOPT RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING CHANHASSEN To JOIN AN ENVIRONMENTAL CITZE~
COALITION.
Jo Ann Olsen: This is the Environmental Cities Coalition and there was an
article in the newspaper recently on that and it sparked interest with the
Recycling Commission so we contacted them to get more information and we
attended one of their meetings in January. It's a group of cities that joined
together for a common cause and each city ls golng to be pursulng environmental
ordinances that we should work together to have to be consistent and to pull
more power so we are recommending that we adopt a resolution to joln the
Environmental Cities Coalition. It's real easy going. It's a really nice group
and they have a lot of good stuff going but if we're not interested in one of
the ordinances they're working on, there's no requirement for us to be involved
in that if lt's something that we don't agree with.
Mayor Chmiel: Well I, some time ago, Bob Long contacted me and asked me to join
that association and the particular night they had that, I had a confllct and of
course I wasn't able to make it. I think some of the ldeas that they have are
flne. Some of them I think they're also out in left fteld because they've got a
lot of work that has to be done. Not only with the cities themselves but
they're golng to have to get back out to the manufacturers who are doing the
packaging to change the whole concept and the whole 1dca as to the environmental
concerns that we basically have. I didn't agree with some of the positions of
that particular group as I sald and I feel that you know, I don't know what the
costs are per se. Are there costs involved in this?
Jo Ann Olsen: No costs.
Mayor Chmiel: That's uhat I understood, there weren't any.
Councilwoman Oimler: Will there ever be?
Jo Ann Olsen: At this time no. That was even a discussion at the last meeting
and they want to keep tt where we just meet. What we might do is each city
14
City Council Meeting - February 11, 1991
might send out the packet. You know make the copies. That's really all the
costs that there are at this time. They are doing extensive research with the
manufacturers. They really are dolng a lot of digglng. They're not just coming
up with ordinances though.
Councilwoman Dimler: Who's paying for the research?
Jo Ann 01sen: So far it's Bob Long is doing a lot of that. It became apparent
that.
Mayor Chmiel: The City of St. Paul.
Councilwoman Oimler: So at some point I can see that they'd be asking for
money.
Jo Ann 01sen: Yeah, at some polnt they mtght be asking. But we can.
Councilman Mason: ...say no.
Jo Ann Olsen: Just say no, yeah.
Councilwoman Oimler: Sure.
Councilman Mason: Well Z thlnk this lsa real neat idea. Ithtnk it's a real
good way for the City to get access to some of that research and certainly save
staff some tlme and maybe save some money in the process too. I see thts as a
real easy way to show the State or the Metro area or whatever, that Chanhassen
ls just as involved in taklng care of the environment as anyone else ts and !
think it sounds like, I've been at those Recycling Commission meetings and it
sounds 11ks the work that Jo Ann has done, tt makes it pretty clear that we're
not tied 1nrc anything that we don't want to be tied 1nrc by joining this.
Mayor Chmiel: Any other discussion?
Councilwoman Oimler: I guess I have a small concern about the wording of the
last resolve. Be It Flnally Resolved and where It says that although the City
understands that although the decisions of the group are not binding to the
Clty, the Clty has a commitment to participate actively In the activities of the
group to the fullest extent possible. I find that's kind of ambiguous. What is
possible? Also to actively participate. You know at some point then if we say
thls in the resolution, are we then being forced to make a financial commitment?
Things like that. I would 11ke to have that restated if we do pass this. I'm
open to ideas from our legal counsel here.
Jo Ann Olsen: We can just take out the whole thing.
Councilwoman Oimler: Leave that final resolve out? Good.
Roger Knutson: Why not just say, Be It Finally Resolved that the City Council
joins this coalition.
3o Ann 01sen: The respective paragraph that's in there. The second to the last
one.
15
City Council Meeting - February il, i991
Roger Knutson: Yeah, just drop off that last paragraph.
Councilwoman Oimler: Okay. Is that acceptable to everyone?
Councilman Workman: I would say be it resolved that you don't join anything
that doesn't cost you something. This will cost us something.
Councilwoman Dimler: Well that's what I'm saying. Eventually it will cost us.
It's nice to get the information but it's going to cost us.
Jo Ann Olsen: We do have a recycling budget too and agaln that was a concern of
everyone.
Mayor Chmiel: I see it as a whole host of different people that are attending
from all the different cities and a good number of them are mayors and council
members.
Jo Ann Olsen: Almost all of them are.
Mayor Chmiel: And also those that are, I mean they're just from all over the
metro area and there can be more than one representing a city as well.
30 Ann Olsen: Hike has shown lnterest or stated that he'd be if you wanted to
have a Counc11 rep.
Councilwoman Dlmler: Yeah, because someone should definitely attend the
meetings.
Jo Ann Olsen: I'll be going just as representative of the Recycling Commission
but if a Councilmember wants to come in.
Mayor Chmlel: When are the meetings? When are they held 3o Ann?
30 Ann Olsen: It sounds like it's once a month but when, if it's a set day.
thlnk lt's.
Mayor Chmlel: He's never gotten back to me to let me know when the second was
going to be.
Jo Ann Olsen: I belleve lt's next Wednesday or lt's next Thursday. The day
after the State of Regional.
Hayor Chmlel: Met Counc11. Okay. Maybe we can discuss thls amongst Councll
members at some time to see tf there's any others that may be interested in
attending those meetings.
Jo Ann Olsen: If you have any question about coming and see what it's like.
Councilman Mason: Yeah, I would certainly be interested.
Mayor Chmlel: Well it's strictly, that's open for discussion.
16
City Council Meeting - February 11, 199l
Councilwoman Dimler:
budgeted for it.
I think it's going to cost us money and we haven't
Mayor Chmiel: Well, if it costs us money then we don't join but the
environmental concerns...and I think some of those are good. Although with the
budgets that we are havlng problems with and more cutbacks as see comlng, there
may be a limitation to the amount of dollars that we're able to spend. I think
I'll leave it open here for any additional discussion.
Councilman Mason: Jo Ann you've mentioned there's still money in the Recycling
Commission budget. Is that right?
Jo Ann Olsen: Right but again there was no talk of any money going into this.
That was one of thelr, all thelr maln concerns. They're all in the same
position that we are tn. It's Just to meet and to network.
Jay Johnson: Except there was one problem...I went to the meeting.
Mayor Chmiel: Jay? You're out of order.
Jo Ann 01sen: There's a concern about lt, yeah. And I explained that what we
were going to do is to pass off to each city to make copies and postage so that
lt's not all coming out of Bob Long's pocket.
Mayor Chmiel: Jay would you like to be recognized? Come up to the podium.
Jay Johnson: ! was just at another meeting and I wanted to come for this issue
but yeah. Basically, any City's going to be asked at sometime to send out the
agenda and do the copying for that month's meeting and spread it out between all
the cities. I volunteered at this point to matntatn the mailing list for them
on my computer and I bought 15,000 or something address labels at a sale the
other day so I have all the labels I need. There's only about 40 members so you
know, 40 letters once a year ls not going to be a significant cost factor. It
seems to be a pretty active group. I was kind of impressed with their
objectives. From the Recycling Committee's point of view, we'd like to join it.
Councilman Wing: I'm going to support any environmental issues we can and I'd
11ke to move that we joln. ....say no.
Councilwoman Oimler: Is that a possibility? Once you joint to then, if you
flnd the costs are too high...
Jo Ann Olsen: Sure. Hake a resolution or...yeah.
Councilwoman Dimler: We'll send a nlce letter of resignation.
Mayor Chmiel: It's only $12.95 a year. Okay. There's a motion on the floor.
Is there a second?
Councilman Mason: I'll second that.
Councilwoman Oimler: Can I just clarify? Is that with the understanding that
the final paragraph is not in there?
17
City Council Meeting - February 11, 1991
Mayor Chmiel: Yes.
Resolution ~-14: Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Mason seconded to adopt
the Resolution authorizing Chanhassen to join an Environmental Cities Coalition
with the amendment that the last paragraph be deleted. All voted tn favor and
the motion carried unanimously.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS:
Mayor Chmiel: Ursula, Southwest Metro.
Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. We had a meeting on the 7th. You probably read the
nice article in the Uillager about this. The RTB has informed the Southwest
Metro Transit that there have been significant budget reductions proposed for
1991 and they have chosen to make the opt out transit services included in these
cuts. We feel it is somewhat unwarranted in that since the services we have
been provided since it's inception in the early 80's, we have been cost
effective. Also, we are entitled to have 90~ of the dollars collected for
transit come back to us and we've only been using about 70~. And they
automatically keep the other 10~ to be used in adminstration and other services
of the RTB. On top of that, in our budget negotiations with them this year, we
agreed to reduce our budget by $310,000.00 at their request and so we feel we've
already done our part and we are now working on a resolution that will state
these things and that all the three cities, that'd be Chaska, Chanhassen and
Eden Prairie to adopt and so I'm going to bring it up at the next meeting
possibly to adopt this resolution and then take it onto the RTB.
Councilman Workman: Here, here.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
Jay Johnson: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Chmiel: Jay.
Jay Johnson: Shall I update you on the meeting we had today on the same subject
which Ursula wasn't able to make and I was at.
Councilwoman Dimler: Did you go to the RTB meeting?
Jay Johnson: Yes. I went to the RTB meeting.
Mayor Chmiel: Good. Why don't you just update us rather quickly.
Jay Johnson: Real quickly...handout that I gave you as you came in the
building.
Mayor Chmiel: That's what I was looking at when Ursula was talking.
Jay Johnson: Quickly, we had the administration and finance committee meeting
today. Roger probably submitted a letter to the Attorney for the RTB. Roger
probably be the Attorney for the Southwest Metro Transit Commission. The
18
City Council Heeting - February 11, 1991
attorney's then for the RTB reviewed their earlter...and came out with a
slightly different opinion than they've had before saying that they cannot
arbitrarily or capriciously reduse our funds because they have a budget problem.
They can only tell us if we don't have, if our services are not meeting the
minimal requirements or if we are over the 90~ whtch 2 of the opt out, of the 5
opt out programs or very near the 90~. What I gave you there was a history of
what we've done. To make you real quickly famtliar with, on each of your tax
forms there's a transit tax that you get. It's just a couple mils or whatever.
I thlnk it was 11ke $4.00 or $5.00 on mine this year and that goes to thelr RTB.
A11 the money from a11 of our, plus they also get the homestead credits and
physlcal disparities go to the RTB from our cities that don't otherwise get
collected. We're able to capture up to 90~ of that money and use it to provide
translt withln the Southwest Metro Area. The flrst chart there shows the amount
of taxes that have been collected each year since we started in 1987 in the
southwest metro area. The three cities. The $2.1 million that's estimated for
1991 is well under what I believe will be there. The second page is what RTB's
done. Their share of the taxes that we've been getting. As you can see, lt's
increased every year from $343,000.00 the first year to what they're asking us
ls $1,185,000.00. The next chart is what we've done wtth the tax monies every
year. What we've done is almost kept It level so as our tax revenue grows,
RTB's been capturing that money. The next one Just combines those three. The
next chart shows what we proposed as our budget. What we negotiated and was
approved by the RTB in December and then what they came back In January and says
we, you know we don't want to use what we told you in Oecember. We're not going
to approve that anymore. The next one's just a lot of things together that, the
chart that looks like this is kind of an interesting one that I Just came up
wlth. It's like two later. This takes 1987 as the flrst year that we were an
organization and shows what the percent increase tn taxes and rtdershlp and our
budget use of taxes and RTB's use of our taxes. As you can see there...use of
tax dollars, while the total taxes have gone up and the ridershtp has gone up
even faster than the total taxes and of course conversely RTB's use of the money
has gone up 240~. So beyond this initial argument that we are having with them
rlght now over their authority to increase it, which right now they're kind of
backing off, in the future we need to look at them and either recapture these
taxes within our area and somehow get it back to our citizens or provide them
more transit. Another thing I was thtnking ts the amount of time that our staff
spends on translt issues should come out of Southwest Hetro's budget. Same
thing for Chaska and Eden Prairie staff. Rather than the Ctty's budget.
Sharmin spends a lot of time working with it. But anyway, I just wanted to give
you a real quick history of what the Southwest Hetro Transit is because I was on
the Board for 2 years before I flgured it out. Ursula's been on the board about
2 years now so she's probably.
Councilwoman Dimler: One year.
Jay Johnson: One year. She's probably getting up to speed.
Councilwoman Dimler: Z know what's going on.
Jay Johnson: Yeah. I thought we were close to the 90X level that we're, which
is the maximum. We're really right at the 50~ level which is real interesting.
City Council Meeting - February 11, 1991
Councilwoman Dimier: That's great. Did you say that the RTB now has backed off
and the resolution is no longer necessary? Is Roger Pauly working on a
resolution?
Jay Johnson: Well, we're going to have, they're going to have another meeting
of the administration and finance committee later this week. They're going
back. Staff is going back and they're going to redo with the new attorney's
position that they can't just, because I have a problem with my other revenues,
I can take revenues from this pile. They said they can't do it just
arbitrarily. They have to have some reason to do it. So they're going to go
back and look and what I suspect is going to come out of this is that they're
going to say ue can't do our Saturday diaI-a-ride anymore because they're going
to say it's not meeting the standards. Weii, in truth it is. They onIy have
the first 2 months data. But when you get Oecember's and January's data in, it
uiii meet their minimum subsidy standards and they're going to try to iimit our
in commute. I suspect those two, they're going to try to a line item. So I
think there's a iot of things to do. Minnesota VaIiey Transit Authority's the
one that has the most problems. I say that for Roger's benefit since he's their
attorney. They were announced to be the one that may be over their 90~ Iimit
SO.
Roger Knutson: What?
Jay Johnson: Well they said attorney fees, they were going to cut back on that
one and that should bring it down to about 50~ limit you know.
Councilwoman Dimler: One of the other things we called for at the meeting on
the 7th was to have an audit of the RT8 administration which has, they indicated
hadn't been done in 12 years and I thought maybe an audit there wouid help them
find some areas to cut.
Mayor Chmiel: Good.
Jay Johnson: Yeah, they froze their budgets and cut ours.
Mayor Chmiel: That always happens,
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
SET WORKSHOP DATE, 1991 GOALS, CITY HANAGER.
Mayor Chmiel: Todd, I understand we are setting our date for March the 9th?
Todd Gerhardt: Well we've given two dates. You have February 23rd or March
Std.
Mayor Chmiel: Neither of those. Yeah, it's scheduled for March 9th because
there were a couple that couldn't make either or so we moved it to the 9th of
March.
Councilman Mason: When I talked with Don, he told me the 23rd or the 2nd.
2O
City Council Heeting - February 11, 1~91
Mayor Chmtel: Yeah. And there are going to be 2 people gone and I understood
that everybody could be there for the 9th.
Councilman Mason: Nobody asked me about the 9th Don.
Mayor Chmie1: Well then you're going to have to talk with Rshworth. How does
the 9th look?
Councilman Mason: Real questionable.
Mayor Chmiel: I'm available for any of those dates so it doesn't matter.
Councilman Mason: Yeah, that's too bad because I had mentioned to him that at
flrst I thought it was the 9th he was talklng about and I said I couldn't do it
on the 9th.
Councilman Workman: 23rd's out for me.
Mayor Chm£el: And there was someone else too.
Councilman Wing: 23rd's out for me.
Councilman Workman: I think me should plan our goals in 1991 sometime in 199L.
Councilwoman Oimler: That would be good.
Mayor Chmiel: We're getting to the third month.
Todd Gerhardt: March 3rd didn't work?
Councilman Mason: I think it was the 2nd If I'm not mistaken.
Mayor Chmlel: Yeah, it ls the 2nd.
Councilman Workman: I can make the 2nd.
Councilwoman Olmler: March 2nd looks okay.
Mayor Chmiel: Are you alrtght for the 2nd?
Councilman Mason: The 2nd's fine wtth me.
Mayor Chmiel: Maybe it was Don. He said there were two for both. Okay, let's
tentatively set it for the 2nd.
Todd Gerhardt: We'll go with the 2nd and if there's a problem with Oon, I'LL
talk to him about lt...put It back on the next agenda.
Mayor Chmiel: Alright.
Todd Gerhardt: Z dldn't talk to Don about the confirmation of the fire station.
They usually don't have anything planned at the fire station on the weekends.
I'll double check wlth Dale.
21
City Council Meeting - February 11, 1991
Councilman Wing: I'm not aware of anything scheduled.
Todd Gerhardt: You're not aware of anything Oick? Okay.
Mayor Chmlel: Okay, startlng at what tlme? 8:00 a.m.?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes. 8:00 a.m.. What staff usually does at some of these
things. We'd have an assortment of rolls, muffins, orange juloe and soda and
coffee and then we would call out for pizza during the lunch hour and then
people could go down and play racquetball or go for a walk or do something.
Socialize and then start up again at 1:30.
Mayor Chmiel: Hopefully everyone got a copy of the agenda that's betng
proposed.
Councilman Workman: Racquetball Todd?
Jay Johnson: Wallyba11. Staff versus Council.
Councilwoman Dlmler: Great.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, March 2.
Todd Gerhardt: If you did take a look at that agenda, if there's something
there that you wanted to change or to add.
Councilman Wlng: What's the estimate on thls Mayor's pep talk? Approximately
how long would you say that would last?
Mayor Chmlel: Just the mornlng.
Councilman Wing: Could we possibly start at 8:107
Mayor Chmlel: We could.
Councilman Wing: Don, I'd 11ke to talk to you about thls ina 11ttle more
depth. One of the neighboring cities just did their goals and they had a
facilitator come in from GTS and they sald it was phenomenal. It just
completely changed the whole complexity of this thing and he was able to get
things going at an aggressive pace and they sald it was one of the, the quote
was a wonderful experience. It was Lucille Crow. I don't know if you'd want to
talk to her but I had some comments from her to using thls facilitator from GTS.
Mayor Chmiel: I already set it up as to what we're going to do for this one at
least but I thlnk that's something to.
Councilman Workman: When he used the word facilitator, I think in the past we
maybe needed a facilitator. I don't know that we need a facilitator this time.
I don't feel some of the hostilities that a certain Council member who left the
State. I thlnk we're a peace lovlng Counc11. I thlnk we're going to have more
people talking than we can get a word in edgewise quite frankly but I don't
know. I think lt's a good ldea and we talked about doing that at one polnt.
7_2
City Council Meeting - February
UPDATE REGARDING HOON VALLEY LITIGATION. CITY ATTORNEY.
Roger Knutson: I'll be very brief. Just a Little background for the new
Councll members. Last spring the Clty passed a comprehensive ordinance
regulating mining activities in the city. That's principly gravel min[ng,
mlnlng of top so11, clay and things 11ke this. We required, or the ordinance
requires all existing uses to come In and obtain a permit within 6 months after
the adoptlon of the ordinance. That's to give people tlme to come lnto
compliance. Moon Valley rather than apply for a permit chose to sue the City
clalming our ordinance was unconstitutional. That lawsuit was filed last fall.
I don't remember when. Late last fall. They had until the end of November
roughly to come in and apply. Subsequent to the filing of the lawsuit there's
been a bit of discovery. Some interrogatories have been answered. Some
documents have been produced. We're not filing a counter clalm or requesting
information from the Court to file a counter clatm that basically says if you
don't get the permit, if you don't come into compliance with the ordinance,
you've got to close down. It's not been the express Intent of the City to close
them down but to get compliance but this ts a procedural aspect we have to go
through. We anticipate filing a mot[on for summary judgment which [s basically
we don't thlnk a trlal is necessary. We don't believe there are any material
factual disputes. We anticipate filing that within about the next 45 days.
Hopefully we'll get this matter resolved fa[fly quickly.
EASTERN CARVER COUNTY TRANSPORTATION STUDY. PLANNING DIRECTOR.
Paul Krauss: I think you're all aware that we've been talking about thls
Eastern Carver County Transportation Study for quite a while. In fact, you sort
of approved it wlth your comprehensive plan because it's in there. But we never
had an opportunity to go into it in depth. What we had intended to do was to
have Roger Gustafson, the Carver County Engineer come and speak to you wtth
Larry Dahlem who was the consultant from HNTB who did this study. Basically
glve you an overview of what's in there tailoring it to Chanhassen In particular
and what the implications are and where thlnk you should go from there. There
was a mass meeting that was scheduled in December. Unfortunately tt occurred on
a night that we had a Council meeting and we couldn't go. What I'd like to do
ls have those individuals come in and give about a half hour presentation to you
individually so that you can hear it directly and have any questions answered.
I think it would also be useful too if we extended the invitation to the HRA and
the Planning Commission because they've both been working with transportation
issues. I guess all I'm looktng for is some guidance from you as to when you'd
like me to set that up. I think it's something that ue can put on a Council
agenda, assuming it's not a real heavy agenda.
Mayor Chmiel: Rlght. Let's do that.
Councilwoman Oimler: Tonlght would be fine.
Paul Krauss: Yes it would have been a good one.
Mayor Chmiel: Can you get Roger here.
Paul Krauss: Well I think if we, I spoke to Larry Oahlem and I told him about
elther in the next two Council dates and he seemed to be available for either
23
City Council Meeting - February 11, 1991
one. I've got to speak to Roger but I'm sure he would be as well. Would you
just want to leave it up to me then? I can see which agenda.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, why don't you set that up.
Paul Krauss: I'll do that.
UPDATE OF BUSINESS FRINGE ZONING DISTRICT, PLANNING ~IRECTOR.
Paul Krauss: First thing is there's a typo. We actually mean the Business
Fringe District. The Business Fringe area ~s a portion of the City that's been
given a lot of consideration by the Planning Commission and I believe we've
discussed it with you on occasion. It's the area along 169/212 and the issue is
focused primarily on environmental aspects. Trying to preserve the bluff line.
The commercial area there is viewed as generally being of somewhat low quality
and not representative of what we've grown to expect ~n Chanhassen. Of course
H~ghway 212 is go~ng to be relocated out of there so there will be a change in
traff&c pattern. There's a lot of issues associated with that area that we'll
be getting into. The Planning Commission's going to have that on their goals of
Looking at ways to clean up that area and will of course be working with the
property owners down there when that happens. We wouldn't do anything w~thout
invoLv£ng them. The reason th~s £s on the agenda though £s, the Comprehensive
Plan shows all the land located south of the h£ghway as ultimately being
incorporated in the National W£1dlife Refuge. Now that &ncludes the junkyard
that's down there. Zt would include the Super America station and I forget the
name of the motel.
Councilman Workman: Motel.
Paul Krauss: And most of those uses are non-conforming. Some of those uses
aren't even in the BF distr£ct. They're just there and have been there for a
long t~me. Anyway, I finally got an opportunity to contact Tom Larson who was
the dlrector of the Wildlife Refuge and he told me that those properties were
initially excluded from thelr property boundary for the ultlmate boundary of the
park. The reason is they saw that it had existing uses in it and didn't feel it
was worthwhile to expend funds to acquire the property and clean it up. I told
them though that the City has expressed some £nterest tn seeing that, and £n
cleaning up the area and that we have some lnterest in seeing the refuge
developed so that It's also an asset for our c£t£zens with trall corridors and
whatever else and he seemed qulte receptive to the ldea. In fact he was I thlnk
somewhat excited to the fact that we were the first community that actually ever
came to hlm and talked about actlvely working wlth hlm to get the park to expand
in the community. He was very willing to, he asked to get a request that goes
through U.S. Congress ultimately to amend park boundaries and he was golng to be
filing a request in March. March 1st, early March and he was willing to
incorporate those properties south of the hlghway in bls proposal. Now what
that would mean, this is a long term goal. It doesn't mean they're going to
have the dollars tomorrow to aoquire lt. They would have some more
environmentally sensitive areas that they'd want to acquire f£rst but we set
thls out as a long term strategy and I think it would be consistent wlth the
Comprehensive Plan and although we haven't had a chance to refine the pollcles
down there yet, I think lt's consistent wlth the intent of what the Plannlng
Commission's laid out to pursue having that Incorporated tnto the boundary.
24
City Council Meeting - February 11, 1991
That doesn't take anybody's property. The Fed's would have to buy it the same
as we would and negotiate a deal. 8ut as I said, Tom is will£ng to do that. In
fact Tom, Mr. Mayor, Tom Larson I believe is going to speak to the Rotary either
this Wednesday or next. In any case, I brought this up at the Planning
Commission. The Planning Commission indicated that they were very receptive to
amending those boundaries to incorporate those properties. I wanted to run that
idea past you and if you agree, I'll send a letter to Tom Larson indicating that
there is a desire to see that incorporated. He said he would do it without an
officlal letter, but it would help to make hls case a little bit.
Hayor ChmIel: I think that ~ould be a good Idea for us to do that. That would
be an excellent area to preserve for years to come and really environmentally
would be the way to go.
Councilman Workman: In addition to that, did we ever protect that spring fed
trout stream down there?
Paul Krauss: Well, it's protected by the DNR. It's ktnd of a curious thlng
about that Councilman Workman. The river, the wLldlife refuge goes all the way
to LeSeuer I think but they have different management districts and actually the
Minnesota BNE is responsible for the area located upstream of the Shakopee
Brldge. So I've also been in contact with the ONE on this as well. All that
property is owned by a consortion of attorneys that own the seminary. They own
the creek. There's also a rare fen whlch lsa type of a wetland located north
of the creek on that property and we've talked to them about protecting that as
well. To the best of my knowledge, the building itself and 20 some odd acres
around it have been purchased by Lee Golickey who we've been talking to about
rennovatlng the seminary. The rest of that property has not. We don't have the
ability right now to require that we get protective easements over that but
everybody understands that lt's the goal to protect it and it ls, and the ONR
does protect it and we're going to be workLng with them as the propert£es
develop to make sure that that happens.
Councilman Workman: You know there used to be a golf course back there. At
least 9 holes.
Paul Krauss: Up in the cornfield area?
Councilman Workman: Back behind the seminary somewhere. That's where our golf
course will go.
Councilman Mason: Is that a plug Tom?
Councilman Wing: Who's in charge of that building security down there?
Paul Krauss: That's been a long standing issue Councilman Wing. The City
initially some 3 years ago tried to have the building condemned and since then
the property owners have boarded it up with varying degrees of success. Mr.
Gollckey has boarded up the property. Been working with our public safety
department. He's also gone in and actually spent some money in terms of
reroofing some of the buildings to make sure they don't deteriorate any further.
I'm trying to get tn contact with hlm directly. I had hoped he'd have a PUO
application in to the City by now for the property and he hasn't so I want to
25
City Council Meeting - February il, 1991
find out if he's still intending to pursue the project. But last I heard and
last I was down there, there were security measures up and he did have somebody
I believe living in one of the houses there as a watchman.
Councilman Wing: I guess in my last visit by there, there had been an issue
that there were kids in there and a transient in there and there was a concern
of a major fire starting sometime but as I went by I noticed the security's back
down. The boards are off the windows and there's ground level access to the
building again.
Paul Krauss: I'll check on that.
Mayor Chmiel: You're right. I went past it last Tuesday and same thing.
Councilman Wing: Scott's been real good about that and if he's made aware of
it, I'm sure he'll react.
Mayor Chmlel: Okay, any further discussion?
Councilman Workman moved, Councilwoman Olmler seconded to adjourn the meeting.
All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 8:48
p.m..
Submitted by Don Ashworth
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
26