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1989 08 09CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING AUGUST 9, 1989 Mayor Chmiel called the meeting to order. COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Councilman Workman, Councilwoman Dimler, and Mayor Chmiel STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, City Manager Mayor Chmiel: First of all, I'd like to apologize for the mix up. We're having baseball meetings down here-and they put us upstairs until the total number who came for baseball was much less than the total numbers that are' here so consequently the room upstairs just wouldn't accommodate everybody and it'd be a little hard to sit on 6 chairs and 2 davenports. So as I say, I apologize to you because of the inconvenience that it took for a little bit of time in setting this up. As you are well aware, at the last Council meeting, Ursula has brought up the point of the site. Of the concerns that you basically have regarding what is taking, let me clarify that, what has not taken place and you justifiably have the right position to take on that. What we have done is to have staff pull through and gather data, information so we know what's really happening. Unfortunately when this all went in, it was the previous Council that really dealt with it so we're resolved that we're going to correct it. That's the one thing we plan on seeing. The intent basically of this meeting that we're today is to assure you that the improvements to the site will be completed and specifically the berming and the landscaping of which .they indicated they would do. What we have gone through is that the developer has provided the City with a letter of credit in the amount of $297,000.00. This letter of credit is ~n effect until December 31 of this year. What has happened is what we see, that if the developer does not install all those required improvements by November 30th of this year, the City may, not the City may, the City will draw down from that security agreement with on notice to the developer and complete what was said would be done will be done. They, and I don't suppose that HSZ is here ~tonight. Oh they are. Good. I didn't see you there. These are some of the things that we see must be done and will be done. With that I think I'll just turn this basically over to Ursula a little bit and let her discuss it a little more fully. Councilwoman Dimler: I'd just like to give a brief history. I know you've been through all this and you've probably read the Minutes and you know all about what was said and what hasn't been done. I guess my basic concern is that after having read through the Minutes of the October 10, 1988 meeting which dealt with the conditional use permit for the SuperAmerica. At that point there are several instances in here, and I did have a copy for each of you. I feel it should have been included in the packet and when I found that it wasn't, I had them draw them up this morning so I know you haven't had a chance to go through them. So I'd just like to highlight a few things that were in the Minutes. I guess I'll start on page 37 where it talks abo,lt access and acceleration and decleration lane that's supposed to go all the way back to Oriole Lane. I guess that's kind of~th~ first thing that I saw that wasn't done. Also then on page 42, it talks about the d~ainage ditches that had to be completed and the whole system has to be in place before we can move forward. Those are Roger Zahn's comments. On City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 2 page 41 Roger Zahn said here that they talked about the conceiveability of the shopping center, that it would not get approval from MnDot but that SuperAmerica would and Roger said that that thought hadn't entered his mind. A gas station doesn't go without the shopping center and vice versa. They're really intertwined and then a line later it says, I shouldn't say vice versa. The shopping center will go without the gas station but the gas station won't go without the shopping center. Why don't we just go line for line and I talked to Roger and when I told him that we would be meeting and that we would be using these Minutes as the basis. I can just go on and on unless, I can or if you think that's... Mayor Chmiel: No. Just go on. Councilwoman Dimler: The drainage ditch is another issue again we're not taking care of and I'm sure these neighbors will address some of these concerns again too. The berming, the landscaping, and the big thing was that condition 12, if you turn to page 92. Condition 12 states that no building permit shall be issued to SuperAmerica until all the building permits have been provided to HSZ and development starts on the shopping center. Unfortunately putting the sewer and water in, which was needed for the SuperAmerica, was then interpretted to be development on the shopping center which I'm not sure was quite the interpretation that the previous Council or that I would like to see. But anyway, the permit was issued and the rest is history. But my major concern is that if you look at the site, you can see that after having gone through that, that none of the concerns of the neighborhood were really taken into account. I would say in effect their worst nightmare has come true and that's just a horrible situation I think for any neighborhood to be in. They come to all these meetings. They voice their concerns and in the end nothing is listened to and I know that's frustrating. That's not the kind of City that I want Chanhassen to be viewed as. I would like for developers to see us as a City that does consider the concerns of the previous residents. That's the type of reputation that I would like to establish and I want the citizens to know that we do listen and we do do something about it. So that's why we called this meeting this evening. Mayor Chmiel: Don, is Jo Ann going to be here this evening? Don Ashworth: No she's not. I will be here in her capacity. Mayor Chmiel: I guess maybe what I'd like to do right now is just sort of throw it open and have anyone indicate some of their concerns and if you would, just state your name and your address so we can keep this on tape here. Fay Dudycha: I'm Fay Dudycha. 6451 Oriole and they're right behind me. Now, number 1, I don't like the berm hasn't been done. It's wrecked the trees along the border down in our area. The weeds are taking over in the back. The turn lane is terrible. You can't even walk across the street in the morning because that turn lane is turned right into, 5 fee~. Right past Oriole and that's a turn lane so you can't even walk on that side of the street anymore. There's nothing. City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 3 Mayor Chmiel: Going into the station. Fay Dudycha: Going into the station because it's this turn lane. I mean here these people are coming like you know what down TH 7. It's not 50 or 55 even. It's like 60 so I don't like that either. I don't know what they can do about it but they've got to fix something because you can't even turn into TH 7 without somebody else wanting to turn into the filling station. ~ .... - Mayor Chmiel: I think that's something that we can discuss a little bit on that. Some of the things of course that I had seen in here too regarding the' requirements that they have to have here and I do believe there's landscaping in here Don. Resident: Mr. Mayor, who are you talking to over~ here? ~ Mayor Chmiel: That's Don Ashworth. -Our City Manager. MaYbe Don if you have a little more of a handle just getting these Minutes today from the previous, I've not .really-had a chance to'review them. I have reviewed the letter which is written f~om Jo Ann to you in regards to the site which I basically covered on some of the letter of credit and some of-~the other factors that were part of the issuance of.that permit. With.the finalization as well as to the final approved plan that was given. Do we, I"ve not seen it, do we have, other thgn we have this small one and it shows some of the landscaping that's~ to ~be done and covered.- Do we have- anything that we could put up on the board? ~- Don Ashworth: I~can- go ~upstairs and try-~to find it, ~yes. Mayor Chmiel: I think it might be just a good idea because it will be a little easier to point to and direct... Don Ashworth: Do you want ~me to cover anything before ~I start looking? Mayor Chmiel: Yes, it might be a good idea. Just to sort of highlight some of this from where I have already indicated. You were sitting there when. I indicated the.concerns that we~_have~and also what some of the people have. Also, the calls that's Ursula's gotten and the calls that I've gotten. So with that, why don't you just give an overall summary. Don Ashworth: There are a.number of areas that they are~not in compliance on. One of the purposes of this meeting is to try to document as many of those as possible. Staff has a list. The primary issue is the one dealing with the ponding and they' have been notified that that is incorrect. A redrafted plan was submitted that has been submitted over to the Watershed District as well as to our City Engineer. They have now approved that additional plan. The grading should be commencing very shortly on that revised ponding plan. In regards to the building issue, they did take out a building permit but as we are all aware, they have not started that construction. I think that rightly so everyone here is disappginted that they have not complied with what it is that they had told the City Council and yourself from a year ago that that construction would parallel the construction for the gas station. City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 4 Ben Gowen: Supercede. Don Ashworth: Yes. They would be starting that in advance of the gas station, yes. I'll see if I can find that plan. Mayor Chmiel: Alright. We have had of course the execution as you're all well aware of the fact that the development contract has been pulled together. I don't know whether anyone has had the opportunity to see what that is and what it consists of but it really covers all the different things such as the sanitary sewer, watermain and storm sewer, street lighting, sign, erosion control, engineering and surveying and inspection. The turn lane on TH 7. The landscaping and the Reed Addition. I guess with that I'd just sort of like to throw this back open to you people to see what your opinions are and get some more of your concerns. Of course the reason for this meeting this evening is so we can get documentation and get your concerns. Address those concerns and make sure that everything is going to be complied with as it basically should have been from what was intended when the issuance of that permit was granted with everybody's knowledge. Ben Gowen: Ben Gowen, 6440 Hazeltine Blvd.. I think it's indicative of this gentleman who just spoke to us of what the whole problem is. He says parallel and he means supercede. They are all on the same package. They're not complying and nobody cares. This gentleman stood right here and said, parallel and he doesn't mean parallel does he? Does he mean parallel? I'm asking you a question. Mayo~ Chmiel: To be very honest, when he was talking I was doing a little reading here so I wasn't... Ben Gowen: Ursula, do you think he means parallel or does he mean supercede? Mayor Chmiel: No. I think he knows it was supposed to supercede. Ben Gowen: Why does he say parallel? If he's not in HSZ's pocket and playing the same game. We're getting all messed up out there and they don't care and the City doesn't seem to care either. Councilwoman Dimler: The other thing that I caught is that he said the building permit was issued and he's the one that did the issuing. Ben Gowen: Well, what side is he on? Councilwoman Dimler: It's like he didn't have control. Mayor Chmiel: Supposedly he's to enforce the requirements that were so stipulated in the agreement and what the conditional use was covered. Ben Gowen: By what degree does he have ability to enforce it? City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 5 Mayor Chmiel: Through the building department is the place where he does have that ability to. enforce it. Ben Gowen: It's been 18 months and no enforcement. Mayor Chmiel: Yes, I agree. I realize that. And that's the reason why we're having the meeting this evening. Ben Gowen: Okay. When I first heard about this, it's a psychological approach. They showed me a picture in my front room. The road is coming through my living room. That,s a psychological approach because anything other than this is going .to be better. So now we've got a mess out there that's better than going through my living room. Let's get into the SuperAmerica lighting. On the stipulations, there's no lighting that goes 10 feet beyond the building and yet they've got horizontal lighting all the way a~ound the canopy. I don't think it's fair and if this gentleman is the City Engineer, he didn't observe-that omission of intent. Councilwoman Dimler: If-I might-make-a comment at this point Mr. Mayor. I did stop and speak with Jeff Steel who is the manager of the SuperAmerica there and I just talked to him yesterday as a matter of fact. I walked over .the site to see what has< been ~ done and if anything~has ~changed. He indicated to me that he too is very unhappy with the lack of development there because he too was under- the understanding that 'if that shopping center was in there, it's onty going to increase his business so he too would like to see this go in and I did mention the lighting at that point and yes it is a definite violation. Ben Gowen: Are they going to be tricked? Councilwoman Dimler: Don, is that going to be corrected? Don Ashworth: Is what? Councilwoman Dimler: The-lighting on the SuperAmerica. Mayor Chmiel: Canopy. -~ Don Ashwo~th: I know that the issue was b~ought out and that Jo Ann was to research that issue. I'm not sure that I know what the answer to that is. In other words... ~ ~ Ben Gowen: Your opinion is it's not right. Is it going to be corrected? Don Ashwo~th: If it is wrong, it will be corrected. Ben Gowen: It is wrong. Here's the paper. Mayor Chmiel: Ben, what do you have there and on what page are you making reference to? , Ben Gowen: I'm on page 26 of May 17, 1989, Case No. 88-17 Sub. In the middle of the page. City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 6 Councilwoman Dimler: Those are not the same Minutes that we have. It says in here as well I believe. It's condition 6 on page 87. Condition 6 on page 87, the lights on the gas canopy shall be receeded into the canopy to eliminate dispersion of light into the surrounding neighborhood area. Ben Gowen: Say that again. Councilwoman Dimler: The lights on the gas canopy shall be receeded into the canopy to eliminate dispersion of light into the surrounding neighborhood area. Ben Gowen: The canopy's got neon signs on the horizontal surface. Councilwoman Dimler: We are not talking about a violation of the conditional use permit for SuperAmerica which I don't believe... Ben Gowen: Another subject. Councilwoman Dimler: Yes. They are. You're right but I'm wondering if that isn't slightly a different issue. Is Roger still responsible for that? Roger Zahn. I don't know. Mayor Chmiel: I would say that that would probably be the responsibility of SuperAmerica. Roger sold them the property. SuperAmerica is the recepient of that permit so I would think it would be their responsibility. I'm not sure but that's... Ben Gowen: It's really this gentleman's responsibility. The City Engineer's responsibility. Councilman Workman: He's the City Manager. Mayor Chmiel: No, the City Manager. Right. Ben Gowen:' I think it goes back to his pocket real quick. Mayor Chmiel: I think that's something that we will have to probably have addressed with SuperAmerica on the canopy lighting which is a little more removed from this right now but we will check that out. Gary Reed: My name is Gary Reed. I called Jo Ann Olsen when they were constructing the canopy and I've been to meetings with SuperAmerica and we talked about how the signage would be down low and the lighting would all be directed down. Then when I saw them constructing the canopy and putting ,lp fluorescent lights around the base of it, I knew what it was going to do. It was just going to shine out into the neighborhood and so she said, well I was just over there and looked at the canopy lighting which was below the canopy and how they weren't directed down, they were kind of below the canopy. And I said, well didn't you look at the sid~ of the canopy and she said she didn't but she said she would check right into it. Then the next time I saw the canopy was lit and one night they were checking it all out and they had the lights on all night.. Jan and I came City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 7 home and our house, it was like moonlight you know. The whole surrounding area was lit up by that perimeter around which was directed out so. It really wouldn't be that hard to correct. All they'd have to do is switch them off. Mayor Chmiel: Yes, that's right unless it cont~ols some of the other lighting. The down lighting that they have over the pumps. That would be the only thing and I have no idea. Councilman Workman: Are we talking about, is that lighting or is that signage? Is that addressing? Resident: Lighting all around the outside facia. Councilman Workman: It's colored? Gary Reed: It's as bright. There's no, is a logo on it? I think the logo is on the front of the station above the door. I don't think there's any logo on the canopy. Councilman Workman-: So it's meant to illuminate the area and not for' signage? Gary Reed: No. It's something that stands out that you see driving by to see it. I,~ve looked, at some of the other stations and not many of them have lights a~ound the edge of the canopy. MQst of them don't have it. Mayor Chmiel: Ben, I was just looking at that with the lights on the gas Canopy which is number 6 here as part of the conditional use. It says the lights on the gas canopy shall be receeded into the canopy to eliminate dispersion of light into the surrounding neighborhood area. Ben Gowen: If you put a light on a sign this way, which way is it going to go?' Down or out? ~ Mayor Chmiel: That's co~rect. That light will go out. Resident: But that's the· gas whe~-e the meters are. That isn't the' station. The station, is what has the lights. Mayor Chmiel: No. Resident: The outside of the station with the canopy. Resident: The outside of the station lights shine down. Mayor Chmiel: No, they're talking specifically on the gas canopy here. Resident: They're supposed to go down though right? Mayor Chmiel: Yes. They have down lighting underneath the gas p~mps They have those specific spot lights. · City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 8 Resident: Then what is it around there? Mayor Chmiel: That would be the facia on the outer portion all the way up to the top part. Resident: But that doesn't say that that is what is supposed to happen. They are supposed to have the lights going down to the... Mayor Chmiel: Yes. They're supposed to be down lighting rather than projecting out. Right. Councilwoman Dimler: Next time we'll say no lighting of the facia and that will... Gary Reed: They didn't indicate anything about the edge of the canopy. The subject wasn't brought up but the edge of it, they didn't talk about the edge of it. They talked about the street lights, down lighting and down lighting throughout the station and down lighting under the canopy but they didn't mention the edge of the canopy. Mayor Chmiel: Let me just reieterate some of the conditional use requirements and there were 15 of those. It said 1, no unlicensed or inoperable vehicles shall be stored on the premises. 2, no repairs, assembly or disassembly of vehicles is permitted on the premises. 3, no public address system shall be audible from a residential parcel at any time and all other noise sources, operational in nature, shall not be audible from the site between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m.. Has that been pretty good? Okay. You're not hearing, Pump 32 is clear? Resident: No. So far. Mayor Chmiel: I was sitting out there and I was listening one night too. Resident: I think that if they would be open past 10:00 or 12:00, now you might hear them because everything is quiet. Mayor Chmiel: Unless you're a light sleeper, you may hear it but if you're as sound as I am, I don't hear anything. Resident: They do have an advertisement that plays over I believe it's as early as 7:00. It's not actually an intercom system but it is an advertisement that plays inside as well as outside. Mayor Chmiel: On the specific special items that they have or whatever? Resident: Yes. I've heard it actually several times. I too think that lighting outside is pretty bad. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, let me just keep going with this. Number 4, was gas pump stacking area deemed to be appropriate by the City shall r;ot intr,]de into any required setback area. That I think is done. 5, no sales, storage or display of used automobiles or other vehicles s,~ch as motorcycles, snowmobiles or all terrain vehicles is permitted. 6, was one City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 9 that we talked about, the canopy. Lights on the gas canopy shall be receeded into the canopy to eliminate dispersion of light into the surrounding neighborhood area. 7, there shall be no outside display, storage for sales of merchandise. The day that I was there and looked, they didn't have anything outside. Everything was contained in. Tank deliveries will be limited to 10:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. Monday thru Saturday. 9, the applicant shall meet all conditions of the Assistant City Engineer as stated in the memo dated September 14, 1988. Do we have that by chance any of you? Don Ashworth: I brought down the HSZ file. You're going through the SA file. Mayor Chmiel: Yes, that's what we're just touching on right now. 10, the applicant shall comply with all conditions of the site plan approval. 11, the applicant shall accept used motor oil and provide for it's safe storage. 12, there shall be no sale of 3.2 beer or intoxicating liquor. 13, there shall be 2 clerks employed at all times while the station is in operation. 14, approval be conditioned upon satisfactory review by staff of the traffic studies and the skimmer operation. 15, the hours of operation shall be between 5:00 a.m. and Midnight. Those were the specific conditions that SuperAmerica had to comply with in order to. be in conformance with the conditional use permit. The only one that I see right now would be the lighting within the canopy. Ben Gowen: Didn't they also submit after that revision procedure? I think that's part of what I handed you... I don't know what happened. They were asking for revising this map. ~ Mayor Chmiel: Well this was the one that the Council moved, Councilman Johnson moved and Horn seconded to app~ove the conditional use permit request ~88-10 as shown on the Site Plan stamped "Received August 15, 1988" with the following conditions. Ben Gowen: Shortly after that they asked for revisions of this. It's in another file. Mayor Chmiel: That's-something we can check on. Ben Gowen: They requested some changes but I don't know what happened to them. Mayor Chmiel: Well is that's the only thing, then we can really check that out. Was there any chang'es in addition to what was existing? (The~e was a tape change at this point.) Roger Zahn: J,~st take the last thing first. The holding pond should be corrected beginning tomorrow. The holding pond was built according to the plan of the engineer but it was defectively designed and I'm n~ happier, I'm less happy about that of just about anyone because I paid for the thing to be b,]ilt the wrong way and now I have to go back and fix it. We had to before we could fix it, approval of the City. We had to get approval of City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 10 the Watershed District and I had to hire a new engineer. The old engineer said he didn't know how to fix it. So we hired a new engineer. He came up with an excellent plan. We talked to the City about it. The Watershed District has approved the new plan and beginning tomorrow that will be corrected. Bob Wagner: Roger, when you get that plan done, is there any fencing around that for children? Roger Zahn: There isn't currently a plan for any fencing Bob but the slopes are going to be more gentle. The City asked us to reflect even though it had been approved as a 3:1 slope, they asked for a 4:1 slope could we get it from the Watershed? Could we get a 4:1 slope. Bob Wagner: It's going to get bigger not smaller? Roger Zahn: It's going to get more gentle so... Ben Gowen: It's probably going to get bigger now. Roger Zahn: Not by much. Ben Gowen: It's going to get bigger. Roger Zahn: Yes, it's going to get a little bit bigger. Ben Gowen: It's already 27,000 gallons and it's supposed to be 10,000 gallons. Roger Zahn: There's a lot of water that has to go into it. Ben Gowen: It was originally planned at 10,000 gallons, am I right? Roger Zahn: I don't think gallons. Resident: -10,000 square feet. Ben Gowen: Well I understand it's 27,000 now and now you're going to go up 4% instead of 3% and it's going to get bigger. Roger Zahn: A little bit but I think you'll see that as an improvement because in the event, I know the City had made a request on us that they want to be able to get equipment in there and they need a little bit gentler slope to do that. You'll have people get down there, it's easier to walk out then on gentler slopes. In any event, that will be corrected beginning tomorrow. My engineer tells me, and I'm very leery of saying this is the way it's going to happen...so I'm hoping that by the end of the week that pond is in place. But then I've been disappointed so many times, I have been told it will happen by engineers and things, I hope I'm not disappointed on that. We're very close to it and I don't see ~ny reason why it wouldn't happen that way and maybe...get done until the first part of next week b,]t anyway they were out surveying and staking the new contours and so forth over the last couple of days so it's now staked. City Council Meeting - Superkmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 11 Bob Wagner: When you get it all done, are you still going to have room for your bike path? Roger Zahn: Yes. The bike path goes in. I guess what I would say to the neighbors and to the City and so forth is, we have never abandoned this project. The project is going forward. It's going to be completed. It's going to be completed by us on your time schedule of November 30th or before and we'll have a shopping center up. We have a terrific group of tenaats that are committed to the project at this point and I think it's a group of tenants that everybody will like. It has been a very hard summer for me, believe me. It's been harder for me not to go forward. I live not too far from the neighborhood. I drive by it. It just about makes me sick that we have not gotten going as fast as what we had intended or let me say it this way. That we have not picked up the construction as quickly this summer. The construction that we started last fall. It's cost me unbelieveable money. Everyday that we delay it costs me money. I am trying to get this thing going as fast and as efficiently as we can. I am now confident that we will finish it on time and will have, like I said. We have a group of tenants committed for about 54% of the space which is excellent considering that we don't have a building to show to the tenants. This is almost in effect a 54% pre-leasing of the shopping center which is great. After struggling through defectively designed...a couple other people that let me down as far as what they were supposed to do. I'm having a very, very tough summer. I'm finally~in the position where I'm optimistic about it and I think everybody will be happy about it but I don't think we should be talking about it in terms of it's all over and it's your worse fears have been realized. We're 3 months behind schedule. We're 3 months behind when we wanted to resume construction which was somewhere around May 1st. Now it's a little past August, 3 months and 2 weeks. While I've hated probably every day of that, not being able to resume Construction, we are resuming. Like I say, we were out surveying and staking so that we can begin cutting and coming in with the dirt and that begins tomorrow. We're going forward so we'll have it done on schedule and we'll have I think a shopping center that's going to be a real asset· to the community there. An excellent group of tenants. It looks grim. I know there's no physical evidence and you don't see the building going up and you've heard me say, I think it's going to happen next week. I've talked to a number of you and I probably said that 6 weeks ago. I meant it when I said it. I thought it was right. I just have to keep up my optimism and keep pushing. That's what I'm doing and there's good~ reason for it now. We j~]st had a terrific meeting with an anchor tenant today and that negotiation is nearly wrapped-up. We have about half a dozen other spaces that a're leased or leases off of signatures or letters of intent and so forth. The outlook is better now than what it's looked all summer. Believe we've worked awfully hard at that. There hasn't been a minute... Even tho~]gh you weren't able to see it, it wasn't visible to you but if you could see me slugging away behind the scenes making phone calls and p,]shing the people and working, you'd know how hard we've worked so it's starting to pay off and it will pay off. So that's wh@re the project is. That's all I can say. I think we've got good reason to... positive outlook. City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 12 Tom Rode: Can I ask you a question? Tom Rode. I live on 6275 Chaska Road. I'm just curious, what happened to your project? What delayed it? Roger Zahn: I'd say there's 3 factors. Number 1 is the bad engineering. The pond is one example and we had a couple of other problems with things that weren't done right. And they had to be fixed before we could go. Ben Gowen: What were they? Roger Zahn: We had a couple of problems with the sewer line going out into Lake Minnewashta. We had some...that had to be made to the grading plan. Tom Rode: But's it's sat for 3 months. There hasn't been a thing done. Also I'm curious, secondly... Roger Zahn: ...there's been a lease that we've been negotiating for probably 3 months. Those things don't happen fast. It's a terrific lease and you'll all be happy with it. I'll be happy with it. Tom Rode: That path we all thought would be happening and I'm just saying by Decembe~ 1st, you're going to have this shopping center complete, the blacktop in, all the screening, the trees planted, and it's going to look complete? If I were a betting man, I'd say you'll never make it. Roger Zahn: I'd say by about the 15th of November we will, let me put it to you this way. We have to have the blacktop in by the 15th of November at the latest. We have to have the landscaping. We have to have the berming. All of that has to be done. The building will be, I don't know exactly the date the building will be finished. It will be up. It will be closed in so it looks presentable. When I last talked to my contractor, we'll have the building up and there's a stage in the building where if you don't have it walled in and you're heating and air conditioning and all of that business, then we have to put plastic sheets down and bring in heaters and he says. we should be far enough on that building before the cold season hits that we won't have to do that. So I'm saying, to my way of thinking that the building will be complete for occupancy sometime in December. Maybe we p,~sh the landscaping ahead a little bit and the building falls behind a little bit but we're going to finish it. We'll be done with the things that I know you all want to see done by the 30th of November. It has to be otherwise the City will build it. I don't want that. Ben Gowen: You realize that what's happened with the gas station is not indicative to what we think's going to happen now. Roger Zahn: I know. Ben Gowen: You've done it to us once. Roger Zahn: All I can say is that anything I've done I've tried as hard as I can do and do the best job I can do. I started that construc, tion. When I started construction on that site last fall, it was my intention to go full blast as far and as fast as I could go until the cold season and we had to quit which is exactly what we did. We worked right up until, City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 13 I don't know, I couldn't tell you... Ben Gowen: But then you forgot to start this spring. Roger Zahn: That's right. We didn't forget. If you had asked me, and you did and I'm sure I said many times, I don't see any reason why we wouldn't start right up May 1st. Ben Gowen: It cost of whole year of growing on that berm around there. Roger Zahn: I feel awful. Resident: Are you going to get that berm in there then so we don't have to look at that mess back there? It looks like heck. We've got to look out our window upstairs and look right at it. There are weeds 15 feet high and those dead trees. Before it looked 100% better than it does right now. You should have left the trees there until you can put the station in... Roger Zahn: In hindsight I would have done about 100 things different. Resident: Tear it all up and making it look like hell you know. Roger Zahn: I know. I hate the way it is. Unfortunately the thing has turned around and we're going forward. Starting tomorrow we'll fix the pond. Then we go... ~ Resident: We've been told that about 3 months ago. You said in one week something's going to be done. That's 2 1/2 months ago and nothing's beend one. Nothing. Roger Zahn: You're absolutely right. When I- said that, I believed it. Resident: It's a r~eal mess. If somebody else did that, God they'd send the cops after them. Ben Gowen: · Last spring when Gary Reed had his meeting here, you told me in the hall you had everything leased but one point and that.was going to be finished and we're going to start and that was in May. I don't believe what you're saying anymore. Roger Zahn: Well you know, there isn't anything I can say. I know that I have said on a number of occasions based upon what I believed at the time, that we we~e in good shape and I was wrong. The only thing however, I will tell you, that I was wrong about and I told you in May or March or someplace like that that we had a group of tenants that we needed one more lease to sign in order to begin construction. I'm talking about a lease that has taken me 3 months. We are that close. We were that close 3 months ago. It's a big company. It's a big beauracy and things take forever. I had another meeting today, now maybe we're this close and it's going to happen. When we sign that lease, then we can announc~ it and I think you'll all be happy and you'll say, well Roger doesn't know anything abo,~t timing but at least in the long run it paid off. City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 Aug,~st 9, 1989 - Page 14 Resident: Is that the reason why it's been kind of delayed for 3 months? Roger Zahn: That's a big part of it, yes. Finishing off that lease. The fact of the matter is, it's the kind of tenant that I know will be perfect for the neighborhood and the truth is, we pulled a big portion of our shopping center off the market to lease to this tenant. Ben Gowen: What's going to happen if he doesn't sign? Roger Zahn: I'll probably jump off the nearest bridge. Ben Gowen: I mean seriously. What's going to happen to the corner? Roger Zahn: I don't think that's going to happen. We had a meeting today and we're almost there. Outside of that, leaving that one aside, we still are at negotiations with enough tenants to meet our, we have minimums that we have to meet for our financing. We're in negotiations with enough tenants even outside of that one so maybe I'll wait... Ben Gowen: Mr. Mayor, do you believe all this? Mayor Chmiel: Ben, as I sit here there's two things that I really see. One, what Roger is indicating and I guess maybe he's told you that before and I know that sometimes trying to get someone to lease a piece of property is a problem. When yo,] think you have it pretty well tied down, there's something that drops and causes a problem but that's Roger's problem. The other thing that I see is that we do have the right to draw on that letter of credit to correct the existing problems that are there now. Ben Gowen: Starting December 30th? Mayor Chmiel: By November 30th. Ben Gowen: November 30th. No extensions. Mayor Chmiel: No. We can draw on that letter of credit. That letter of credit is good through December of that year. Ben Gowen: You a~en't going to be planting trees in December. Mayor Chmiel: No, but it ca~] be done. Roger Zahn: Time will tell Ben. So far I can see what you can see and I know how hard I've worked at it and I know where I am with these people. I think time will tell. I'm 3 months behind. I'm Rot the first developer in this town to be 3 months behind. It happens in this b~]siness. It's a very, very tough business but if all that happens to this project is that we got 3 months behind this summer, in the long run. It's a bad summer and if we have to write it off, and I feel terrible about that, bu~ in the long run 3 months isn't, like I say, it isn't something that's so unusual in a development of this nature. City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 15 Resident: Why couldn't that have been up to grade and that berm put into... You would have been done with that now and we'd, the people would be happy. Roger Zahn: Honestly you know Bill, I thought, if anybody would have asked me about any week during this summer, I would have said, well next week this thing, the log jam has got to break and then we'll be ready to go. So maybe I'm just ridiculously optimistic but that's the way I've been. Resident: Why can' t that berm go in, I mean get it leveled off... Roger Zahn: It is going to be one of the first things. Resident: Close that off. Then you don't have to sit there and watch everything going on. I think it'd be better. Roger Zahn: We need black dirt for that berm and we know where it's coming from. I think we're taking some from several different areas and I think one of them is some...and some with Gary. Ben Gowen: You've got a big pile out there by the highway. Roger Zahn: Yes, we'll take all of that and we'll push it. Like I say, we're starting tomorrow. Ben Gowen: You're starting tomorrow on the pond. I want the berm tomorrow. I'm pushing. Roger Zahn: The pond is the most important thing and I think the City is... Resident: Both of them. Both of them are important. Roger Zahn: Both are important. Gary tells me his road is the most important. It's all important. Resident: The whole works should be done. It was said it was .going to be done. It should all be done. Resident: We couid care less about the shopping center. for another month. That can wait Roger Zahn: Well that's important to me. Resident: I ag~ee but it was impo~tant to us to begin with. Roger Zahn: I'm just saying you do have to start someplace... Resident: I was looking in this plan here and that turn lane is further on past Or~.ole Avenue than what it is now. Resident: It's right at Oriole Avenue it turns in. The road cuts off and goes ~ight in there. According to that it's way up. City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 16 Ben Gowen: A lot of people think you're going down TH 41. Resident: I've seen 3 people back out of there and go around to TH 41. Resident: That turn lane is too e'~rly there ~nd the other one is dumb too. The one they've got on TH 7. That should be, they should have a curb there because in the wintertime that's going to all be gone. You ain't going to see no line there soon as the snow comes and the snowplow start plowing. There should be a cement curb there like there is down by 7 Hi Shopping Center. You get down there and then you're standing there. Ben Gowen: It is dangerous. Resident: It is. It looks like you're going to get hit head on. Roger Zahn: Well we'll have to take a look at that. I think it's a legitimate concern. (Everyone is talking at the same time.) Mayor Chmiel: Is there anyone else who may have any comments? Anyone else who has not really... Bob Wagner: I have something. I'm not here to pick on Roger particularly. I think Roger has constraints he's working with. What gripes me is when we set conditional use permits and we set conditions, we don't enforce them. And I'm not just talking about this development. I can take you back to the one in front of my house 5 years ago I suppose. There's nothing around... The yard's not mowed. The right trees weren't put in. There was a letter of credit. It disappeared. Two tenants have come and gone. I just don't want it to continue. We've got stuff here that's in violation with SuperAmerica and I think that's the point that we have to start to address. Roger's within his rights yet to a certain degree. SuperAmerica is not. Resident: -Can I ask a question? Mayor Chmiel: Yes. Resident: Who issued that permit to SuperAmerica when the pond wasn't even legal? Didn't they check that? Mayor Chmiel: SuperAmerica was not part of the conditional portion of the ponding at that time. Resident: No, but in order to open their station, didn't the pond have to be legal? Roger Zahn: Actually the pond was built according the plans that were approved by the City and the Watershed District. Resident: But when they opened it wasn't even working. City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 17 Roger Zahn: It was, the soil conditions were not properly investigated. That was the problem. Now that's all, we had...and rip rap... Resident: What's going to hold the banks up? Mayor Chmiel: The City basically issued the permit previous... Resident: And they didn't check anything out I mean as far as the pond? Mayor Chmiel: I honestly don't... Resident: They knew that it wasn't w°rking. Mayor Chmiel: Yes, there has been some problem there. What that problem is, I don't know. Roger Zahn: I think the pond actually worked at first. Until we got the rain in the spring and then it... Resident: That pipe's got to be all full of dirt now. It's got to be because this spring when the snow was thawing you'd have thought that the Mississippi River was there. It made so much noise, I was wondering...and you could see the water just pouring in it. Little kids sitting down there playing with the water running down on top. They could have got washed right down that crazy pipe. Yes they could have. There's a lot of water that comes off from the school and back in there. That ditch sounded just like the Mississippi River coming through there. Like a falls. Like Niagara Falls... Resident: And that's what happened to the trees. Resident: Washing the trees in and everything else. Ben Gowen: We're j,]st lucky we've got dry weather the last couple weeks. Resident: -That's right. If we had had a lot of rains like they got around US . Mayor Chmiel: Well hopefully with Roger going to make that'correction, starting tomorrow that should take care of the problem. Roger Zahn: It's a difficult engineering problem. The soils are, there's a lot of ground water in there...and I don't necessarily fault our engineer for our first... This is tough ground. You've got get somebody who's... Mayor Chmiel: Ursula, do you have something? Councilwoman Dimler: Yes. I guess I have to compliment Roger on his optimism. I think that's great. · Ben Gowen: You can also criticize him. City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 18 Councilwoman Dimler: No, everybody has to be optimistic. That's true but I think your beliefs have to be based on some concrete evidence. Roger Zahn: Oh they are. Councilwoman Dimler: But I ask you to bring some signed leases. Do you have any signed leases. Roger Zahn: Yes. We have two signed leases. Councilwoman Dimler: Did you bring them? Can we see them please? Roger Zahn: No, but I'll show them to you if you want me to. It's our private dealings between tenant and we don't want to, you know, Councilwoman Dimler: That's fine. As long as I can see them. Roger Zahn: I'll be happy to show them to you. Councilwoman Dimler: And then when I spoke to you last week, was it not last week? Roger Zahn: Yes. Councilwoman Dimler: You told me that the_holding pond woul. d be completed before this meeting today' What evidence did you base that on? ~ Roger Zahn:. The evidence I based it on was my contractor told me he could start work on it on Monday which was two days ago and that it was about a two day project. The problem is we had some topographical information that was missing so they had to come out and resurvey. They didn't know that at the time and I didn't know that at the time but it wasn't pure speculation on my part. It's professional people telling me that. I listen to those professional people. I pass it along and' then I look like I don't know what I'm talking about. . Gary Reed: I can comment on that too. I've been working with his new engineer on the site. He's been concerned. A lot of the elevations that were taken from old topographies that were done...I suspect that~were old and ~e felt that he needed more-elevations for the street. He did need some information for platting the r~sidential lots around the cul-de-sac to make sure the street would work.and so I've been trying to coordinate his efforts with my surveyors and they were out and shot some elevations and~ they have been shooting a few more So to do the job right, it's taken a few extra days but... Roger Zahn: I think Gary too, part of it was our engineer trying to get together with your surveyor and your guy's been... Councilwoman Dimler: But Roger wouldn't you agree that it's s~ill basically it's ~your ~esponsibility? _.You hired the engineer. You hire all your consultants. City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 19 Roger Zahn: Absolutely. Councilwoman Dimler: I would recommend to you that you get some better engineers and consultants. Roger Zahn: The guy we have now is very good. I've really happy with him and I wish, I can tell you that I will never use the guys that I used. Councilwoman Dimler: But it's up to you to screen them though. Roger Zahn: I'm responsible for that but... Councilwoman Dimler: But basically, after having been through this experience with you, I now understand why these people have a hard time believing you. Roger Zahn: Well so do I. Councilwoman Dimler: And I hope you don't have a hardship in seeing that. There's a total lack of credibility here. Roger Zahn: The only way, I can talk until I'm blue in the face but we have to get the job done. That's all there is to it. Councilwoman Dimler: So I'm just asking you, you have some concrete things now that you're building your plans on? Roger Zahn: You've got it. Councilwoman Dimler: And then I would like to see them please. Roger Zahn: Yes, if you want to come... (A tape change occurred at this point.) Resident: ...expect some response on this? Don Ashworth: I will have a response to the City Council by August 28th. Resident: Can we have them shut it off until then? Resident: It is very bright. My whole room is lit up at night. It's impossible to sleep. It's a night light and I'm a little old for one. Don Ashworth: I'll have to take a look at the lighting issue. Again, I believe... Ben Gowen: Can't you believe us? Why do you have to look at it again? We are the citizens. We see it. You change it. Don Ashworth: You're making an interpretation and I'm not sure if that's correct. City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 Aug~lst 9, 1989 - Page 20 Ben Gowen: We need you around here. Mayor Chmiel: Ben, I think what we need to do is just check it out and see. I think we can get back with a response probably before the 28th. Ben Gowen: Shut it off until the 28th and then turn it on if it's okay. Don Ashworth: What would you propose? Would you like me to get back to the citizens or directly to City Council? Resident: How about both? Dick Brown: Mr. Mayor I have a question. Dick Brown, 2630 Orchard Lane. Are you now saying that they may~be in compliance with what they're supposed to do. Is that what you're telling us? Don Ashworth: I'm not saying they're in copliance and I'm not saying that they're not. Dick Brown: What I've heard'up to this point is that they're not in compliance with what they're supposed to do. Now from what you tell me, you're saying just the opposite. What's right and what's wrong? Don Ashworth: I cannot promise you that I will go out and turn somebody's light off. - -~"- Dick Brown: I didn't ask that. I asked are they in compliance or are they not? That's what I'm asking. Don Ashworth: I'm not sure. One of the purposes of this meeting is to try to gain input f~om the neighborhood as to concerns that you have and areas that we need to make sure that if .Mr. Zahn does not complete his development, that we're in a position to step in with a plan to complete... Dick Brown: Let's break it down and make it really simple. Do you feel they're in 'compliance or not? I'm talking about SuperAmerica and only the lights. Let's take a simple subject. Don Ashworth: I did not review the lights when they were presented. I did not review the lights during the development. I .do not know the answer to that question. Dick Brown: What is your position in the City?~ Ben Gowen: You can go over there at 9:30 tonight and check it out. Don Ashworth: My position is City Manager. Dick Brown: Which means what now? Don Ashworth: That I am responsible as the chief ~adminstrator officer of this city and it's my job to insure that we employ individuals at eaCh of the operating areas to carry out the functions of this government as City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 21 reasonably well as we can. Dick Brown: Okay, with all due respect Mr. Mayor, if he can't answer the question, who can? And I'm not trying to be smart. I'd just like the answer to that question. I think'~%he rest of the people here would too. Don Ashworth: Those people who are responsible for looking at each of the plans as they go through the City, the building officials and the planning department, are the ones that can answer that question. Ben Gowen: That question was directed at the Mayor. Gary Reed: When I called Jo Ann about the lighting, she said that she would send an inspector out that afternoon. Mayor chmiel: When was that? Gary Reed: This was before they opened because I didn't anticipate them getting their occupancy permit with the lighting in violation. Mayor Chmiel: The problem is with going out in the afternoon, there's no way they can really tell.what the illumination is going to be. Gary Reed: No, but you can see the lights that are directed out and there's 2 lights continuous all the way around and the facia board wasn't on yet so you have a wonderful opportunity to inspect what's there. Dick Brown: I submit that August 28th is too far away. Mayor Chmiel: I think we can possibly have an answer by next week. Don Ashworth: The reason I pick out the 28th is that is the next regular City Council agenda and I wanted to insure that if there were any type of questions, we would have a public forum under which you could consider that type of response. Dick Brown: That may be well but in the meantime these people have to live with something that they shouldn't have to live with. Mayor Chmiel: Could we have a spokesperson from the group here who we could get back to and then that individual could get back to the balance of the neighbors. Dick, would you like to be that spokesperson? Dick Brown: Either me or Mr. Wagner. He's probably better than me. He's a good spokesperson. Bob Wagner: I'm out of town next week. Dick Brown: If he's not available, yes I will be. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, good. We will make a point of getting th~s checked out by next week. The early part of the week and getting back directly to you so you can get back to the balance of the neighbors._ City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 22 Bob Wagner: Another thing if that's acceptable is we can sign a list of who we are and Jo Ann can mail a letter to each of us. Why put the burden on us ? Mayor Chmiel: This way we can get the response going quicker. But we will pass around the sheet so everyone will sign up and those who don't get an answer, will get an answer from a lette~ from the City~ind~icating what ~ we're doing. Is there any other discussions that you'd like to continue or try to pursue? As you're aware, we as Council are trying to address your concerns. Resident: ...because they can even make a U turn which they have. We've seen a truck, a semi. ~ Resident: Make a U turn. But they do that down by Christmas Lake too where it says not to but they don't care. Resident: If that cement is there, up to Oriole... Ben Gowen: Mr. Mayor, have you actually looked at TH 7 approaching the gas station? It looks like it's TH 41. You.come over a little hill and you see an arrow only to the right. You don't really know that there's a gas station there but if you pull in there and then you pull back out into the lane again to make you~ turn to TH 41.. I think it's a real hazard because you've got to get back into the traffic. Either make it all the way to TH 41 or something. Mayor Chmiel: The thing that I'm looking at Ben is that if MnDot has reviewed that, it's conformance with their guidelines. Ben Gowen: Then maybe they made a mistake. ~ Mayor Chmiel: Maybe we-can address that and haue our'engineer talk with MnDot to see. Resident: There's a lot of people that co(]~e ~from the upper part that come down to our road to go out. Mayor Chmiel: Now this is TH 7 east to the approach into the station? Ben Gowen: There's a big arrow and it says only. You think I'm going up TH 41 so I pull over there and you can't do it because you're right in the turn lane stops. Then you go out and then you make a right t,]rn. Mayor Chmiel: I think that's probably a legitimate concern. Resident: And I think they sho,]ld slow it down. That's 55 there. Mayor Chmiel: We wouldn't be able to slow that down. That's established by the Highway Department. Okay, those will be the things that we'll ~ address. If there are any other concerns, we'll address those now. If there isn't any, we do appreciate your coming in to disc.uss this with us City Council Meeting - SuperAmerica TH 7/TH 41 August 9, 1989 - Page 23 and as we've said, we're trying to correct the given problems that are there. If the problems are not corrected, they will be corrected by November 30th with what we've indicated at the preceeding part of the meeting. Resident: And we may call you? Mayor Chmiel: Yes. Anytime. Resident: Okay. You'll get it. Bob Wagner: On behalf of the neighborhood, I would like to thank the City Council for taking the time to come and listen to the concerns of the neighborhood. We appreciate it. Ben Gowen: We'd like to get behind Roger and help him too if we can. He hasn't done us right but we'll help him if we can. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Appreciate it.