1989 04 10CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 10, 1989
Mayor Chmiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. The meeting was opened
with the Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Y~yor Chmiel, Councilman Boyt, Councilman Workman,
Councilwoman Dimler, and Councilman Johnson
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knutson, Gary Warren, Steve Hanson, Jo Ann
Olsen, Todd Gerhardt, Lori Sietsema and Jim Chaffee
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilman Johnson moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to
approve the agenda with the following additions to Council Presentations:
Councilman Johnson wanted to discuss the TH 212 EIS update and Mayor Chmie!
wanted to discuss curbside pick-up and recycleables. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Workman moved, Councilwoman D~mler seconded to
approve the following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's
r ecorNnendat i OhS:
e. Resolution #89-47: Accept Utile. ties for Lake Susan Hills West, Phase I
(Project 87-32) and Phase II (Project 88-8).
f. Authorize Execution of Railroad Crossing Permit for Audubon Road Waterma~n.
g. Authorize Execution of Utility Easement, County Road 17/County Road 18, City
of Chaska.
h. Resolution #89-48: Authorize Readvertising for Bids, MJnnewashta Meadows
Project 88-2.
i. Accept Storm Sewer Management Proposal from Enviroscience, Inc.
1. Resolution #89-49: Approve Resolution Calling for Public Hearing on the
Modification of Development District #2 and Tax Increment Financing District
No. 2-1.
m. Approval of Ordinance Amendment Authorizing Certain Public Safety Personnel
to Issue Burning Permits, First Reading.
n. Resolution #89-50: Correction to Year End Closings and Transfers.
o. Resolution #89-51: Resolution Proclaiming National Consumers Week.
p. Approval of Accounts.
q. City Council Minutes dated March 27, 1989
Planning Conxniss~.on Minutes dated March 15, 1989
Ail voted in favor and the motion carried.
A
City Council Meet.ing - April lg, 1989
CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS:
A. APPROVAL OF EAGLE SCOUT PROJECT, SCOTT DUMMER.
Councilman Johnson: This is a Boy Scout Eagle Project. I just had one
question. In the area they're putt.ing the footings down, I'm very familiar with
the area. There's a lot of peat in that area. I don't know if Lori's here but
I don't think that 42 inch footings are going to hack _it there when you're going
to be putting it on peat. I think we need the City EngJ_neer to take a look at
the situation out there before they start construct_ion. Otherwise I think it's
a great project for the Boy Scouts to do, to add a foot bridge across a creek in
one of our City parks here. But I have a little problem with the soil
engineering going into the project so if our city engineering staff can look at
that, I have no problem otherwise with it. It's an old lake bed so I assume
we've got peat to sttbstantial depth. When they dug out the settling pond near
there, they never got through the peat and they went 4 foot deep on the pond.
So I'm assuming there's at least 4 foot of peat or at least highly organic soil.
If there's nothing else I'll move approval of item l(a).
Councilman Johnson moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to approve the Eagle
Scout Project of Scott Dummer. Ail voted in favor and the motion carried.
B. APPROVAL OF 1989 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECT BUDGET ADJUSTMENT.
Councilman Workman: I just have a question for Lor]. once again. On the
basketball equi[~nent for North Lotus Lake Park and I was unable to get up there
today. I guess I'd like a little more c!arif]catJ.on on how those hoops are
going to work with that court. If those hoops are set there, how is the tennis
court going to be used?
Lori Sietsema: What would likely happen is we will mount them on a pole on the
side of the tennis court that comes over and will be hanging over the fence...
Councilman Workman: So don't go by this diagram?
Lori Sietsema: No. We'll probably do it different...
Councilman Workman: You made it look like J.t was on the edge of the court.
Lori Sietsema: That was the drawing that the request was sent in and we
probably will revise that...but we don't want to have poles on the .inside that
the tennis players might run into so they wii1 be mounted on the outside. Put
on the outside of the court and hah9 over the fence.
Councilman Boyt: I have another question as long as you pulled this. Lori, I
think there should be a sign there stating that tennis has preference on at
least one of those courts.
Lori Sietsema: Again, .we probably will do ]'t so that it only affects one court
and one tennis court will always be available and they can still play
baske tba 11.
City Council Meeting - April 1~, 1989
][43
Counc~.lman Workman moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to approve the 1989
Capital Improvement Project Budget Adjustment. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
C. COUNTRY OAKS ADDITION.
Councilman Boyt: If you'll look at the new conditions for approval, item 5. I
think we have seen recently that, and I'm thinking of the tree cutting situation
we were looking at a couple of weeks ago. The develot~nent contracts do a very
poor job of controlling builders. They control the developer but once the
developer's finished, they have no impact really and so I would take our
experience to mean that item 5 has no ability to accomplish what it set out to
do and that's protect that ponding corridor contour. So I'd like to see us come
up with a stronger way of wording that and suggest that we have the developer
enter into the deed for the property, the ponding contour, and indicate that ~_t
will not be altered by the homeowners.
Councilman Workman: I have also one thing to bring up and I'll ask for Jim
Chaffee's concerns quickly. Last council meeting I brought up the continued
developers bringing in plats with roads all having the s~me name but different
endings. Now this one has Country Oaks Drive and Country Oaks Road but they're
relatively ~.n the same place. It could be, probably isn't a problem for fire
safety, etc. in this situation but at this point, is it something that perhaps
we should ask for a differentiation?
Jim Chaffee: We could take a look at it but typically you'll find a plat coming
in with one main road with off shoots with similar names. That isn't a problem
to us. It's when they get into different areas, extreme opposite areas of the
city where it tends to be a problem.
Councilman Johnson: I was going to pull this one also but mine was more of a
nit picking detail. According to our platting regulations, plats are supposed
to have the legal description and the key map on them and this plat is missing
those two items. I'd like to have staff double check to make sure if I'm right
in my reading of the ordinance and if so, have the legal description and the key
map added to the plat. That was condition 9 I guess.
Jo Ann Olsen: Prel~.minary plat has to have that. The final plat I don't
believe so.
CouncJ. lman Johnson: Okay, could you check on it because I thought the final
plat was supposed to have everything the preliminary plat was supposed to have.
Councilman Boyt: I would move acceptance of the 8 conditions noted by staff.
Changing 5 to read, the deed for each lot adjoining the ponding site will note
the ponding site contour and that that contour shall not be altered in any way
by the homeowners period.
Councilman Workman: Second.
Councilman Boyt moved, Councilman Workman seconded to approve the Final Plat as
amended for Country Oaks Addition. Ail voted in favor and the motion carried.
D. ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT REZONING AUDUBON COURT, FINAL READING.
Councilman Workman: Again, same issue with the name change on Audubon Court.
Has that been done? We're st~.ll on track for that?
Jo Ann Olsen: Yes. They're working on a new name.
Councilman Worth, an: Okay, that's all I wanted to do was make sure.
Councilman Workman moved, Councilwoman DJmler seconded to approve the final
reading of Zoning Ordinance Amendment Rezoning Audubon Court. Ail voted in
favor and the motion carried.
J. AUTHORIZE FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR UTILITY AND ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS TO FRONTIER
TRAIL FROM HIGHLAND DRIVE TO KIOWA.
Councilwoman DJ.ruler: Item J has to do with authorizing a feasibility study for
the utility and roadway improvements to Frontier Trail from Highland Drive
to Kiowa Circle. I think this is a most needed project and I'd encourage it to
be done ASAP. But my concern with it is that this project be done in
conjunction with the sanitary sewer restoration.
Councilman Boyt: That was mentioned in here wasn't it?
Councilwoman Dimler: No J.t wasn't. I don't want to see the new road go in and
be constructed and the citizens get assessed for it only to be torn up later for
sewer restoration. Gary, can you ccmeent on that?
Gary Warren: Yes, Councilwoman Dimler. The intent is that, as with all
feasibility studies, we would look at the existfng utJ. lities and the repairs
would be done at that time. The sewer rehabilitation report which is later
the agenda, we televised those sewers already and those repairs would be
incorporated into this project, yes.
Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. That was my concern. So if that is taken into
consideration, then I would move item (j).
CounciLman Johnson: Second.
Councilman Boyt: You mentJ.oned, or your report mentions Gary that the condition
of this road was contributed to by having axles in excess of 7 tons run across
the roadway. Do you recall that?
Gary Warren: In our road rater report, their evaluation.
CouncJ. lman Boyt: How can we prevent that from happening J.n the future since
apparently the road was broken up by trucks that were too heavy for the road
surface?
C].ty Council MeetJ. ng- April 10, 1989
Gary Warren: Like you see at this time of the year~ we have our road
restrictions that are posted sJ.milar to the County and the State and it becomes
one of an enforcement issue I guess to monitor trucks. To weigh trucks. To see
that they are not exceeding the limits of the roadways.
Councilman Boyt: Is there a load restriction on that road this time of year?
I've never seen one.
Gary Warren: We don't sign all the roads. Only those roads that are typ.].cal
roads as far as truck traffic and through truck routes. Normal residential
traffic doesn't bother us.
Councilman Boyt: It strikes me as interesting that the road surface here seemed
to be a half inch or more thicker than what we're going to replace it with.
Gary Warren: That was an overlay recommendation in certain areas. The sub-base
is the real problem. It doesn't matter within limits how much bituminous you
put on top of the sub-base is not corrected which is the case with Frontier
Trail, then you're going to have a failure eventually and that's the real cure
that's needed for Frontier Trail is to correct the sub-base problems and the
drainage problems.
Councilman Boyt: Well I don't doubt that the work needs to be done. I just
think the road's been abused and I'd like to see something done to prevent this
and other roads from being abused in the future. That's all I've got.
Resolution %89-52: Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to
authorize Feasib].lity Study for Utility and Roadway Improvements to Frontier
Trail from Highland Drive to Kiowa. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
K. APPROVE RESOLUTION ELDSTING TO DESIGNATE CERTAIN BONDS ISSUED IN 1986 AS
QUALIFIED TAX-EXEMPT OBLIGATIONS.
Mayor Chmiel: Maybe I'll ask Don to address this. I had some concerns with it
and I just want to make sure that everyone else understands it.
Don Ashworth: The issue before you is primarily a housekeeping item. The
Federal 1986 Tax Reform Act required that the bonds be designated as tax exempt
as a part of the resolution itself. The change that was made occurred after the
time that the City had sold those bonds. They are tax exempt bonds. We're
simply clarifying and insuring that the bond holders do in fact have tax exempt
bonds.
Mayor Chmiel: Clear with everyone else?
Mayor Chmiel moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to approve Resolution electing
to designate certain bonds issued in 1986 as qualified tax-exempt obligations:
City Council Meeting - April lg, 1989
1. $195,ggg.gg G.O. Equipment Certificates
2. $4,615,~g~.g~ G.O. Bonds of 1986.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: There were no visitor Presentations at finis meeting.
PUBLIC HF~ARING: EMPAK, INC., LOTS 1 AND 2, BLOCK 2, CHANHASSEN LAKES BUSINESS
PARK SECOND ADDITION:
A. VACATION OF UTILITY EASEMENT.
Jo Ann Olsen: The first proposal is a vacation of the utility easements. The
applicants are proposing to replat t~ industrial lots into one lot. Therefore
the interior utility easements are no longer needed. We are recommending
approval of the vacation with the condition that the Council approve the final
plat for Lot 1, Block 1, Empak Addition and the recording of the plat with
Carver County.
Mayor Chniel called the public hearing to order.
Councilman Johnson moved, Councilman Workman seconded to close the public
hearing for the vacation of the utility easements. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
Resolution %89-55: Counc]lman Johnson moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to
approve Vacation Request #89-4 to vacate the interior utility easements between
Lots 1 and 2, Block 2, Chanhassen Lakes Business Park 2nd AddJ. tion with the
following condition:
1. The City Council approve the final plat for Lot 1, Block 2, tlnpka Addition
and the recording of the plat with Carver County.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
B. PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL.
Jo Ann Olsen: Again, the applicant is proposing to combine two of the
industrial lots into one. The Planning Commission reviewed this and
recor~nended approval with the condition that the applicant receive vacation of
the interior drainage and utility easement between Lots 1 and 2, Block 2
Chanhassen Lakes Business Park 2nd Addition.
Mayor Ckmiel called the public hearing to order.
Mayor Chmiel moved, CounciLman Johnson seconded to close the public hearing for
the preliminary plat approval. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
CouncJ. lman Workman: I have just one quick question in regards to the current
Lake Susan Park road and the status of that. During construction, is it going
City Counc~.l Meeting - AprJ. 1 10j 1989
to be there? During the construction w~'re going to take it into account with
Lake Drive and you can give us an idea of what...
Gary Warren: Yes, w~'re currently working on an access plan that addresses not
only the park access but also the Church of the Living Christ access and the
rest of the property out there. As you are aware, we have to get to the park
for maintenance of our Well ~4 also so we are looking at, BRW is looking at the
access road and we're probably going to have some t~nporary road condition
available for that access separate from the actual Lake Drive construction.
Councilman Workman: So at that stage we'll lose the chain gate? Will there be
a chain gate there?
Gary Warren: We would probably lose ~_t because that road would also be access
then, public access for the church.
Councilman Boyt: I foresee a parking problem here. I think we've indicated ~n
our requirements are that you have 1 parking spot for each person working on a
shift. They've got how many thousand square feet, 79,000 square feet? Is that
right?
Councilman Johnson: That's the next item. That's the site plan review.
Councilman Boyt: I'll wait.
Councilman Johnson moved, Mayor Chmiel seconded to approve Subdivision Request
#89-3 to create Lot 1, Block 1, tRnpak Addition as shown on the plat stamped
"Received March 1, 1989" with the following condition:
1. The applicant receive vacation of the interior drainage and utility
easements between Lots 1 and 2, Block 2, Chanhassen Lakes Business Park
2nd Addition.
Ail voted in favor and the motion carried.
C. SITE PLAN APPROVAL.
Mayor Chmiel called the public hearing to order.
Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Workman seconded to close the public
hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing for the
site plan approval was closed.
Jo Ann Olsen: Again, the Planning Conmission reviewed this and they did
recon~nend approval. At that time there were 27 conditions. Since then, the
applicant has provided amended plans that satisfy 17 of those conditions. There
are still 10 conditions that are typical conditions that are required with
almost all site plans that have to be met along with the development contract
and with plans and specs. We are recommending approval with the 10 conditions
listed in the report.
City Council Meeting - April lq, 1989
Councilman Johnson: Jo Ann, in the packet here, there was a statement made that
they're not going to have any hazardous materials at this industrial site.
Jo Ann Olsen: That's what they stated.
Councilman Johnson: Yeah. What are the storage tanks on the outside of the
bui id lng?
Jo Ann Olsen: I th].nk they explained that.
Counci]~nan Johnson: I'd some more information. I'd like Empak to come forward.
Todd CrJ_stopherson: I'm Todd ChrJ. stopherson. I'm the project manager for
AMCON. We are the designer and also the builder of the project. I have with me
Jeff Anderson. He's the project architect and also Larry Welter. He represents
the flnpak Corporation so any questions regarding the actual production inside
the facility, Larry can answer those.
Councilman Johnson: Larry, brJefiy review what you're making. What type of
materials you use making it and are any of these hazardous. Are there SARA 313,
11 or 12 materials on there that you're going to be reporting and what are thos
storage tanks outside.
Larry Welter: The storage tanks are going to line used for storing the raw
plastic. The product being made will be plastic bottles which will be lg0%
recycleable. What was the other question?
Councilman Johnson: Are there any hazardous materials used? Epochtorile
Hydrant or any other good stuff?
Larry Welter: No there isn't.
Councilman Johnson: What type of plastic?
Larry Welter: Polyethelene.
Counc~iman Johnson: When you clean, you don't use any solvents to clean up
after, to clean your machines? There's no solvent carriers in your process?
Larry Welter: No there isn't.
CounciLman Johnson: It's amazing. You make a petro chemJ.cal product without
hazardous material. I don't see those tanks on any of our drawings. We've got
elevations. Maybe your engineers. On the plan view they show 4 tanks but on
the elevations they don't show any tanks. What happened to them when we show
the side vJ_ew of the building, the tanks disappeared?
Larry Welter: I don't know why they didn't show up there. They are shown on
the plan and called out as material storage tanks.
Councilman Johnson: I know. That's why I saw them.
Larry Welter: The tanks haven't actually been ordered and we're not sure
exactly how high they are but I believe that 'they will be 6D feet plus or minus.
City Counc~.l Meet~.ng - April 10~ 1989
Councilman Johnson: It shows there's some kind of wall around them. Is that
wall going to blend in so well that we won't be able to see the tanks
whatsoever?
Larry Welter: No, that's not a wall. That's the foundation down on the ground
that supports the tanks.
Councilman Johnson: And what size of dike are you going to have around these
tanks?
Larry Welter: No diking. The raw material is solid. It's like plastic
pellets.
Councilman Johnson: Okay. So these aren't liquid tanks? They're plastic bulk
tanks.
Councilman Boyt: I have one about your operation. It's my understanding that
you have 50 people on a shift?
Larry Welter: That would be the maximum when Phase 2 is built.
Councilman Boyt: During Phase 2?
Larry Welter: After Phase 2 is built which is not part of this.
Councilman Boyt: How much of the parking is going in on Phase 17
Larry Welter: Everything that is shown on the plan in solid is planned to be
built now. The dashed lines indicate parking that would be added with Phase 2.
Councilman Boyt: Is this a one shift or two shift operation? Or three?
Larry Welter: Basically a three shift operation that goes around the clock.
Councilman Boyt: Are you going to have parking that will take care of your
shift change t~me?
Todd Cristopherson: That's the reason for the extra parking with Phase 1. It
shows 109 parking spaces I believe on Phase 1 which will accommodate the shift
change as well as the office parking.
Councilman Boyt: Okay, good. I have another question then. Until you build
Phase 2, how many square feet is going to be vacant out there?
Todd Cristopherson: I guess first we should clarify on the packet that I got,
it listed the building as being 77,000 feet and actually what we're showing on
the plan there is 95,000 to be built now and approximately 78,000 to be added
with Phase 2.
Councilman Boyt: Okay, that's the area you're showing as seed and mulch for
now?
Todd Cristopherson: Correct.
150
City Council Meeting - Apr~.l lg, 1989
Councilman Boyt: Would you be interested, since you're going to grade all that
now I would imagine, right?
Todd Cristopherson: Correct.
Councilman Boyt: Would you be interested in putting up a backstop for a
ballfield there? With almost 2 acres of ground, you have something that we need
and it would be n~.ce if you would go to a bit of additional expense and put a
backstop. We'd have a ballfield. If you allowed your employees or the City to
use it and it might be a way to help us out.
Todd Cristopherson: I guess I'm not prepared to answer that at this time. I'd
like to take that back to the owners of the company. Larry might have some
thoughts on that but I'm relunctant to agree to something like that at this time
because we haven't had a chance to evaluate it.
Councilman Boyt: Okay. Larry, what's your feeling about this as long as you're
right there?
Larry Welter: I'm not at liberty to give you an answer either. There's some
issues that have to be looked at. Liability and so on so I guess we can't give
you an answer right now.
Councihnan Johnson: Would you be willing to discuss it?
Larry Welter: Yes.
Councilman Johnson: Are you part of Flourware?
Larry Welter: No we're not.
Councilman Boyt: That's all I have [ir_. Mayor.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, any other discussions?
Councilman Johnson: I've got one added here. A little birdy added something to
my ear here just a minute ago. We have a few, you're going to be vaccum moving
your solids from your storage tank to your press process I assume. A lot of
these have a high pitch whine to the fan system. You want to make sure that we
are in compliance with the MPCA, especially the nighttime noise regulat].ons
because you're fairly close to some residential areas. You're just sittin9
right across a valley to a new residential area. Your current facility does
have a whine to i.t but there's very few residents nearby so we don't have much
of a complaint.
Larry Welter: I wasn't aware of a problem there but if there J.s too much noise,
it can be muffled with insulation.
CounciLman Johnson: What we want to do is make sure you take a close look at
that in your design phase.
Larry Welter: Okay.
City Council Meeting - Apr~_l 10~ 1989
1_51
Councilman Johnson: I'll move approval of Site Plan, item 2(c) for t2npak with
the 10 conditions of staff and two additional conditions. One is that they
review their design to insure that they meet the MPCA noise requir~nents. Sound
emission requirements from their facility to the residential areas and park
areas. 12 is that they look into the possibility of working with our Park and
Rec people for interim utilization for needed more ballfields in this area.
Both for the industrial ball leagues we have that play softball and whatever.
That would be item 12. I'm not saying do it. Look into and negotiate and
discuss J.t with your manag~nent.
Councilwoman Dimler: I second that.
CouncJ. lman Johnson moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to approve Site Plan
Request #89-1 as shown on the amended site plan stamped "Received March 28,
1989" with the following conditions:
1. Erosion control shown on plans shall be Type III.
2. All site slopes greater than 3:1 will need erosion protection.
3. All driveways shall be consistent with city standards.
4. A typical section of roadway is to be shown on the plan.
5. Access must be maintained for city forces to monitor and maintain Well No.
4 at all times during construction and should be addressed in the
Development Contract with the city.
6. The development contract will need to be signed prior to construction on
the site.
7. Approval of the site plan is not an approval, nor does it imply approval of
any notations of plant expansion set forth in the site plan. Any
additional phases or expansion of the site will require a site plan review.
8. The applicant shall receive an access permit from Carver County for access
at County Road 17.
9. The applicant shall provide screening for roof top equipment if the same is
visible from a public right-of-way.
10. The applicant shall be required to pay park dedication fees and construct
an 8 foot wide bituminous trail on the east side of Powers Boulevard to
receive 100% trail dedication credit.
11. The applicant review their design to insure that they meet the MPCA noise
requirements, sound emission requirements from their facility to the
residential areas and park areas.
12. Look into the possibility of working with the Park and Recreation staff for
interim utilization for needed ballfields in this area.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
11
Council Meeting - April lq, 1989
AWARD OF BIDS: CITY HALL SECURITY SYSTEM[
Todd Gerhardt: Attached to your packet you will find a bid from Alpha Video and
Audio for a bid of $12,761.g5. The second bid was from Southwest Audio Visual
for a bid of $13,389.45. A difference of approximately $628.gg. Staff's
recommendations that award of bid go to Alpha Video Audio for $12,761.~5. Also
included in your packet are the s~uecifications for the installation and the
equipment to be used on the project.
Councilman Johnson: t'1t move approval of the award of contract to the low
bidder Alpha Video and Audio in the amount of $12,761.g5. And I'd like to thank
Southwest also for their bid and also for setting up the audio for tonight's
presentation.
Councilman Workman: I do have one quick comment. Todd graciously called me
today before he got busy setting up here tonight. My biggest concern when items
like this, $13,g00.g0 here and $2g,g0g.00 there and $5,~g0.gg here is that
staff, and this certainly isn't only Todd but that staff place in there maybe a
trail of where this money c~ne from. Where it's coming from and where it was
designated fre~. I did find out that the money, the $13,ggg.gg is from a cable
TV fund. We all pay everytime we pay our cable TV bill and that puts the
expenditure of $13,ggg.0g into a different light. But if in the future it will
probably save us all time a little bit if we could maybe find out where that
money is supposed to be coming from. A couple meetings ago the Lions in the
consent agenda, the Chaska Lions donated $1g,2gg.0g to the City of Chanhassen
park and Rec department. Nobody on the Council brought it up. I happened to
office with the past president of Chaska Lions and said, where's this money
coming from and why are we getting it? I found out that was fr~m the pulltabs
here in to~n but it wasn't in the report so I'd like to know not only how we're
spending it but how we're getting it a little bit. Maybe we can get a trail and
save some time.
Resolution %89-56: Councilman Johnson moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to
award the contract to the low bidder, Alpha Video and Audio for the City Hall
Security System ].n the amount of $12,761.g5. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR ~HE CONSTRUCTION OF A CHURCH, 1/4 MILE NORTH OF
HIGHWAY 5 AND WEST OF POWERS BOULEVARD, ECKANKAR CHURCH, PETER BECK.
Pub!lc Present:
Name Address
Mi tch and Janet Weaver
Dan Mahady
Tom Hickey
Ginger Gross
Cindy Jones
Bill and Helen Loebl
Jane K1 inkenberg
4399 W. ll3th Street, Blo~nington
l~2g Butte Court, Chanhassen
699g Utica Lane, Chanhassen
2793 Ches Mar Farm Road, Chanhassen
2739 Ches Mar Farm Road, Chanhassen
7197 Frontier Trail, Chanhassen
18g Cascade Court, Chanhassen
12
City Counc~.l Meeting - April 10~ 1989
153
Name
Edward A. and Marion Ziegler
Matt and Laurie Hoffman
Chuck and Peggy Becket
Douglas and Jane Cook
Eric Rivkin
Bill and Karen Gleason
Chr is Burns
Mr.. and Mrs. Kubitz
Ike &nd Helen Pesonen
Curt and R.L. Hausen
Herbert J. Kask
Albert and Karen Dorweiler
Sandy Eastling
Esther Steller
Earl and ~na St. John
Lydia E. Porter
Mary Johnson
Patsy Ward
Susan Johnsrud
Sharon Koenen
Georgia Cox
Jack Atkins
Joanne Nelson
Robin K. Norby
Dawne Erhart
Bob and Mary Rezac
Rosi Schlenk
Gen Kohman
LueAnn Wallentine
Shirley Kreger
Tom and Carol Barrett
Thomas Lehmann
Timothy and Carol Vadnais
Jim and Britta Pasek
Doug Arnold
Susan Bode
Sheryl Mickelson
Dale and Gloria Carlson
Ross and Deidre McEllhiney
Richard Potz
Bud Andrus
Mat and Sue Strand
M.H. Wittrsas
Mark Pahl
Eleanor Widey
M. McNutt
Ivan and Mildred Underdahl
Steve and Dianne Clabots
Kathy Doeper
Trent and Nancy Manaren
Chuck Hirt
Ken Earhart
Address
920 Butte Court, Chanhassen
931 Saddlebrook Trail, Chanhassen
7211 Pontiac Circle, Chanhassen
290 Trappers Pass, Chanhassen
1695 Steller Court, Chanhassen
1031 Saddlebrook Trail, Chanhassen
Sailor Newspaper
7492 Saratoga, Chanhassen
7257 Pontiac Circle
6220 Horseshoe Curve, Chanhassen
115 Pleasant View Road, Chanhassen
1565 Bluff Creek Drive, Chanhassen
7285 Pontiac Circle, Chanhassen
6311 Steller Circle, Chanhassen
1621 West 63rd Street, Excelsior
7217 Pontiac Circle, Chanhassen
1044 Pontiac Lane, Chanhassen
6960 Utica Lane, Chanhassen
7061 Shawnee Lane, Chanhassen
6960 Shawnee Lane, Chanhassen
6990 Shawnee Lane, Chanhassen
220 West 78th Street, Chanhassen
7290 Cactus Curve, Chanhassen
6801 Redwing Lane, Chanhassen
775 West 96th Street, Chanhassen
6970 Shawnee Lane, Chanhassen
501 Chan view, Chanhassen
7615 Kiowa, Chanhassen
507 Chan view, Chanhassen
7606 Kiowa, Chanhassen
7051 Redman Lane, Chanhassen
330 Sinnen Circle, Chanhassen
8110 81st Street, victoria
141 Oak Glen Drive, Hopkins
400 Deerfoot Trail, Chanhassen
7105 Pontiac Circle, Chanhassen
981 Pontiac Lane, Chanhassen
6900 utica Lane, Chanhassen
733 Preakness Lane, Chanhassen
6991 Tecumseh Lane, Chanhassen
7078 Red Cedar Cove, Chanhassen
7410 Chippewa Trail, Chanhassen
6022 Dakota Avenue, Chanhassen
8056 Erie Avenue, Chanhassen
7610 Great Plains Blvd., Chanhassen
410 Chan View, Chanhassen
7502 West 77th Street, Chanhassen
1021 Pontiac Lane, Chanhassen
8026 Cheyenne Lane, Chanhassen
7552 Great Plains Blvd., Chanhassen
7007 Cheyenne Trail, Chanhassen
6880 Utica Lane, Chanhassen
13
City Council Meeting - AprJ. 1 lg, 1989
Name
Barbara Fransdal
Lois Fiskness
Joe Kasid
Mrs. L.J. DeMarais
Stephen Cobb
Don and Solveig Huseth
Judy Colby
Janet Paulsen
Karl Hinkle
Alan Le~rness
George Benick
Jerry Paulsen
Jan Rome
L.J. Anderson
J.H. Kasper
R.W. Robinett
K.W. Wenaland
V. Punnicutt
Wayne and Sharon Skoblik
Michael Wangen
Dan Barnett
Lisa Weik
Rob Reynolds
Merlyn Wanous
William A. Claas
Mark Schblock
Karen Anderson
Bill and Kathy Engebretson
Kurt J. Weimer
Scott Torrey
Monte EAstvold
Doug Hansen
Mike Gorra
Terry Forbord
Bill Egger t
Dave Sime
Jul ie Farmakes
Leneda Rahe
A1 K1 ingelhutz
Cindy Schallock
Dianne Priedote
Pat Leiter
Daniel Remoz
Jim Eastt lng
Mike Farkas
Dean Brown
Alan Putn~
Mr. and Mrs. Walter Whitehill
Address
62gg Murray Hill Road, Chanhassen
8033 Cheyenne Avenue, Chanhassen
7g13 Sandy Hook Circle, Chanhassen
6979 Pima Lane, Chanhassen
88g Nez Perce Court, Chanhassen
7332 Frontier Trail, Chanhassen
7397 Laredo Drive, Chanhassen
7395 Laredo Drive, Chanhassen
1693 West 161st, Westfield, IN 46974
698 2nd Avenue So, Minneapolis
412 West 76th Street, Chanhassen
7395 Laredo Drive, Chanhassen
4~5 Del Rio Drive, Chanhassen
4gg C~marron Circle, Chanhassen
411 Cimarron Circle, Chanhassen
4gl Cinarron Circle, Chanhassen
894g Dakota Lane, Chanhassen
8951 Cheyenne, Chanhassen
701 Bighorn, Chanhassen
42g Chan View, Cnanhassen
777 Carver Beach Road, C~anhassen
720 Preakness Lane, Chanhassen
76g Santa Vera, Chanhassen
6231 Church Road, Excelsior
791 Belmont, Chanhassen
71gg Pontiac Circle, Chanhassen
6881 utica Lane, Chanhassen
712g Utica Lane, Chanhassen
6211 Dogwood Avenue, Chanhassen
731 Bighorn Drive, Chanhassen
7051 Pima Lane, Chanhassen
lg8 Pioneer Trail, Chanhassen
168g Arboretmm, Chanhassen
935 E. Wayzata Blvd.
8gg Preakness Lane, Chanhassen
79g Preakness Lane, Chanhassen
710g Utica Lane, Chanhassen
lg21 Carver Beach Road, Chanhassen
86~g Great Plains Blvd., Chanhassen
7190 Pontiac Circle, Chanhassen
74gl Frontier Trail, Chanhassen
7613 Kiowa Avenue, Chanhassen
7560 Chippewa Trail, Chanhassen
7285 Pontiac Circle, Chanhassen
75gl Chippewa, Chanhassen
18737 Clear Drive, Minnetonka
14
C]_ty Council Meet].ng - April 10j 1989
Steve Hanson: The Planning Con~nission at it's regular meeting on March 1, 1989
reviewed this particular request and held a public hearing pursuant to your
regulations. At that time they did reconxnend approval of Case 89-1, Conditional
Use Permit for Eckankar Church. That vote was a 4 to 1 vote by the Con~nission
with two of those members absent. The approval w-as subject to several
conditions. Principly as contained within the staff report delivered to the
Planning Comnissi. on. At that time the applicant had agreed to the conditions
that were placed on the application and subsequently have revised their plans in
conformance with the conditions as placed on the application by the Planning
Con~nission. The Planning Commission also at the t~me when they did recon~nend
approval also had a couple ~tems that they wanted the City Council to consider
in your deliberations. There were four of those. The first of those was hiring
an J. ndependent consultant to review the proposal as far as the ~npact on
property values and I believe you have in the packet a copy of that document.
The second ~.tem was that additional services that the facility may need should
be re-evaluated by staff. We have done that and I'll go over that in a minute.
The third was the status of Eckankar as a church. We have gone back through and
looked through the definitions that we have and have found that the facility
does qualify as a church under the City Codes. The fourth item was a further
evaluation of conditions 1, 4, 6 and 11 of the general issuance standards for
conditional use permits. Also I would note, I tried to put out copies of the
general issuance conditions for the public. I didn't make 200 copies but I had
before the meeting started, set some of those out on some of the chairs and I
believe some of the folks have them. Also we have a set of those up at the
podium if people want to reference those specific conditions that you have for
evaluating this particular request. Also in the report that you have before
you, I've done a further evaluation of conditions 1, 4, 6 and 11. Briefly I'd
like to go over those. The first of those states that the application will not
be detrimental to or endanger the public health, safety, comfort, convenience or
general welfare of the neighborhood or the City. Previously staff and the
Planning Con~nission's report had recon~nended that the application dJ_d comply
with this criteria and that when we apply the standard we take into
consJ.deration a variety of uses, operations and safety issues. The application
does comply with the zoning requirements and greatly exceeds the setback
requirements. The appl~cation also complies width fire and safety
recommendations for the facility. From a land use standpoint, the isolation of
the facility from neighboring uses provides an excessive separation and there
are no identified nuisances that would be detrimental to the public comfort.
The church use presents no endangerment to the general welfare nor has an
investigation conducted by the Public Safety Department noted any problems in
other communities where they have had facilities. The fourth criter~a that was
brought up as a concern at the Planning Commission states that the application
will not be hazardous or disturbing to existing or planned neighboring uses. We
have been unable to identify any hazardous materials or hazardous operations
that would be conducted on the property. And further, again, the Jnvest~.gation
done by the Public Safety Department has identified no disturbing uses for the
property or from the Eckankar Church itself. The sixth criteria states the
applicant will not create excessive requirements for public facilities and
services and will not be detrimental to the economic welfare of the community.
As stated in the staff report to the Planning Commission, this use will have
less need for public facilities and services than if the property were developed
residentially pursuant to the existing zoning on the property. Also the
investigation has not turned up any additional requirements for facJ~lities that
the City would have to provide for this particular use. The last item was item
15
11 in that the applJ.cant will not depreciate surrounding property values.
Again, I'd refer you to the appraisal information that is included in your
packet regarding that item. The staff J.s recommendJ, ng approval of the
conditional use permit for Case 89-1, for Eckankar Church with several
conditions which are really a modificatJ, on of the conditions that were approved
by the Planning Commission and recommends that City Council take the following
action. That the City Council finds that the Conditional Use Permit Case ~89-1
for Eckankar Church J.s consistent with the zoning standards of the City of
Chanhassen and approves the request subject to the plan stamped "ReceJ.ved March
22, 1989" and the matters of record in the official City PlannJ.ng File %89-1,
Conditional Use PermJ. t, Eckankar Church with the following condf, tions:
1. Detailed lighting of the exterior of the building be submitted for rev].ew by
the City. At staff's discretion the lighting may be presented to the
Planning Co~nission for review to determine if the lighting is consistent
with the character of the neighborhood.
2. All detailed construction plans and specifications are to meet city
standards.
3. The Watershed DJ. strict permits required prior to construction.
4. There shall be no outside speaker system on the site.
5. The facility is for the express use as a church and limited to normal
operations and activities associated with the church. In no case shall
rallies, conferences, meetings or gatherings in excess of the seating
capacity of the proposed facility be allowed.
6. No tents, mobile homes, trailers or similar temporary structures shall be
allowed on the property.
7. Parking shall only be allowed on the improved parking areas as designated on
the site plan.
8. No overnight stay shall be permitted including camping or lodging with the
exception of the caretaker.
9. No use other than that specified J.n the conditional use permit shall be
permitted unless the applicant applies for and receives approval of a new
cond~.tional use permit pursuant to the City Code requirements in effect at
that time.
That concludes my co~nents at this time Mr. Mayor unless you have any questions.
Mayor Chm].el: Are there any questions from Council?
Councilman Johnson: I'd like to bounce two things off of you. I think one of
them I talked to you on the phone about, l'm hopin9 you came up with some
alternate wording for number 5 which is the facility is for the express use as a
church limited to normal operat].ons, act].vites associated with the church, t
have no problem with that sentence. In no case shall rallies, conferences,
meetings or gatherings in excess of the seating capacity of the proposed
facility be_ allowed. That we have to put on every church in town. If we're
16
City Council Meeting - April 10j 1989
going to put it on one church, they all get it which means that we can't put out
folding chairs for Easter services. I've never been to an Easter service, even
in our new fac~.lity at Mount Calvary that we just built the new auditorium. At
Easter we had to put out folding chairs already so we exceeded the seating
capacity. That design seating capacity so somehow we have to treat everybody
equal. Now as far as the rallies, conferences, meetings go, I think we should
specJ, fy there, something of a national or international type t~hing. This is for
a local church and churches have local rallies and stuff like that but we're not
looking for th~s to be an international headquarters of any sort and we don't
want any national or international rallies. I think we need to do that. I'm
not exactly sure how to handle the seating capacity. Is the seating capacity
and the occupancy capacity the same as far as fire limits for occupancy
capacity? No, it's two different things. We can't exceed the fire occupancy
capacity which we're probably closing in on on this room today. I hope our Fire
Marshall's not here. The other thing is we talk about tents, mobile homes,
trailers, can we add except during construction because all the construction
companies want to put ~.n their little mobile home construction office. Say
something like except construction offices.
Mayor Chmiel: That' s normally accepted.
Councilman Johnson: But we're giving them a condition that says you can't put a
construction trailer on there basically. It says no trailers and we didn't say
except during construct,.on.
Mayor Chmiel: I think the intent behind that is that no trailers will be on
site once the site has been brought up to standards.
Councilman Johnson: Good. That's what I'm saying. Let's say it. Do you have
any problem with that?
Steve Hanson: No. I think that would be beneficial to put that clause in there
so it is clear that they can't have the construction trailers durin9
construction. I th_~.nk right now the way it's stated, you could make the
interpretation that it does not allow anything at all, even during construction.
Councilman Johnson: That's all my questions of staff. I do have some general
con~nents later I guess.
Mayor Chmiel: I'd like to just establish a few parameters for this evenings
meeting. I would like to have each individual from the group have a spokes
person for it to get up and address the issue. Any other members or any other
people that are here this evening who would like to address this issue, we'd
like to limit that between 5 to 10 minutes at the very most. So with that, I'd
like you to take that into consideration when it's your time to come up to the
podium. When it's that time, also indicate your name and your address. Thank
you. Are you presenting it this evening Peter?
Peter Beck: Yes. Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council, Peter Beck, 7900
Xerxes Avenue South representing Eckankar. I intended to present the project to
the City Council. Of course it would take longer than 5 or 10 minutes. Was
your intent that we proceed to take the time necessary to present the project
and then the further discussion would be...
17
Council Meeting - Apr.] 1 1.g, 1989
Mayor Ckmiel: I think you can give your full presentations basically and any of
the people who are going to submit their discussions are limited to that.
Peter Beck: Okay. I'd like to introduce first quickly, the folks that are here
tonight to answer questions frc~n the Council or from the public. They include
my partners Jim Larkin, who is here now and Bob Hoffman who is at another
meeting and w].ll be here as soon as he possibly can. Also, the architects for
the project, Ron Krank and Peter Sussman with Korsunsky, Krank and Erickson
Architects. Mr. Krank is the lead architect. His qualifications are set forth
in a statement that he submitted to the City. Essentially he has 26 years of
experience as an architect with particular experience in Chanhassen including
buildings for the Press, Instant ~ebb and Redman Products and with cons.].derable
experience in the des]~gn of churches including Mount Olivet Lutheran Church and
being a lay leader in charge of the Temple of Isarel's recent 4 million dollar
addition and r~nodeling program. Again, Mr. Krank's wr.].tten statement setting
forth his qualifications and his analys].s of the project and it's compliance
with the ordinance of Chanhassen in the record. Also tonight are several
representatives from Barton Asc~mann and Associates Inc. who are also
consultants to Eckankar for civil engineering and environmental issues. We have
subm]~tted statements from four representatives of Barton Aschmann being Dan
Lutenegger, Chuck Rickart, Scott Minnous and Ken Horns addressing separate
issues of traffic, air quality, dust, wetlands, erosion and sedimentation
control, utilities and landscaping. Barton Aschmann has also prepared a
voluntary Environmental Assessment Worksheet which is a part of the record that
was before the Planning Commission as before the Council tonight. The
conclusion of the statements submitted by Barton Aschmann and the Environmental
Assessment Worksheet is that the church complies with the City's ordinances and
has no potent]~al for any significant environmental effects. In addition to
those development team members, we have also had Eckankar retain two independent
consultants to review the church and the Chanhassen ordinances and to render
their opinions on the compliance of the church with the City's ordinances.
Mr. John Shardlow ~s a partner .]n the firm of Dahlgren, Shardlow and Uban. His
professional qualifications are also set forth in a statement submitted to the
City and in the record. Essentially he has considerable experience assisting
communities in the preparation of Comprehensive Plans, zoning ordinances and the
analysis of development projects. We asked Mr. Shardlow to rev.]ew all of the
plans for the church and the City's ordinances, Comprehensive Plan and render
his opinion on compliance. His written statement summarizes his conclusions
which are consistent with staff's conclusions that the church as proposed does
comply with the City's ordinances and other requirements. We have also had Mr.
Shardlow conduct a separate investigation of Eckankar's current locations in New
Hope and M]~nneapol].s to determine whether or not those cities have any negative
experiences with the Eckankar locations in their cities including increased
calls for services or complaints and the result of that investigation is
summarized in a brief letter that we sukmitted this evening which is that
neither con~nunity had had any complaints or other call for special services due
to Eckankar facil].ties in their city. Mr. Shardlow along with the development
team members is here tonight to present this statement .]n greater detail if the
Council would like or to answer any questions. F]_nally with us tonight is A1
Leirness, real estate appraiser with the firm of Robert Boblett Associates Inc..
Mr. Leirness is an MAI designated appraiser with over 12 years of experience
appraising real estate including specific experience in Chanhassen with the CPT
building, Lyman Lumber Plant and other properties. He was specifically retained
to address the zoning ordinance standard with respect to the impacts on
18
City Council Mee~.ng - April 1~ 1989
surrounding property values. His first written statement was submitted to the
City at the time of the Planning Commission hearing concluded that the church
will not depreciate surrounding property values. Since the Planning Con~nission
hearing, we have requested that he look into that issue in greater detail and he
has done so and will submit a report tonight which sunm~arizes his detailed look
at specific property sales. The approach he took was to do a detailed analysis
of actual property sales in the areas surrounding Eckankar's properties in New
Hope and Minneapolis. Also in the areas surrounding a church in Southwest
Minneapolis called the Church Universal and Triumphant which was a very
controversial church at the time it wasn't approved. They had to go to the
Supreme Court to establish their right to locate but subsequent to their
location in Minnapolis, Mr. Leirness' findings is that there has been no adverse
impact on any property in proximity, in any kind of reasonably close proximity
to that church. That is also the conclusion that he arrived at after studying
property records and records of property sales in New Hope and Minneapolis. Mr.
Leirness also analyzed the specific residential properties surrounding
Eckankar's property ~.n Chanhassen. The purpose of that was to identify the
types of residential property surrounding the Eckankar property and to get a
better idea of whether any impacts could be reasonably anticipated. His
conclusion was that the types of residential property surrounding Eckankar in
Chanhassen are of the affordable type housing which are in very high demand and
short supply, particularly in this part of the metropolitan area. It is his
opinion that due to that fact, coupled with the actual experience in New Hope
and Minneapolis, that there is no reasonable basis to conclude that there would
be any impact on surrounding property values as a result of the Eckankar church
as proposed in Chanhassen. I'd like to emphasize again that that report which
we will submit this evening is based on his analysis of actual facts from the
property records. The rest of our presentation tonight will be basically a
sun, nary of materials which we have previously submitted to the City. Review of
some graphics showing the project. All of the materials that we' 11 be
referencing are in the record with the City and we'd like to summarize our
understanding. The record does include our application including cover letter,
plans, Enviror~ental Assessment Worksheet and all the other attachments and
materials we submitted with our application as well as the staff report of March
1, 1989 including all of the attachments to that staff report which did include
some follow-up letters from us related to the project. And the record should
also include the staff report of April 4, 1989 also including all attachments.
Specifically our letters to the City Council members with follow up information
with respect to the proposal. Additional materials which we've submitted this
evening I've mentioned. The statement from Scott Minnous with Barton Aschmann
is basically identical to a statement filed earlier from Barry Warner with
respect to landscaping as Scott and Barry worked together on the landscaping
plan. Barry had a conflict tonight so Scott is here and therefore we submit his
written statement. This additional letter from John Shardlow on his
investigation in New Hope and Minneapolis. The statement from Mr. Leirness
which I just mentioned as well as a copy of an April 7, 1989 letter which we
addressed to the City Council is not in the packet but I've submitted a separate
copy for the record. We've also sukn~itted a copy of a portion of the April 6,
1989 Chanhassen Villager which we request be made a part of the record.
Eckankar is, those of you who were present at the Planning Commission meeting or
have taken opportunity to review those Minutes are aware, is a tax exempt
religious organization under the Federal Internal Revenue Code and has been
designated as a church under the Internal Revenue Code since 1975. We've
provided the City with a copy of the current Internal Revenue Service
19
City Council Meeting - April lg, 1989
determination letter with respect to Eckankar's status as a church w~nJ. ch is
dated 1975 and remains in effect...under the laws of the State of Minnesota to
solemnize marriages and we have also submitted confirmation of this with our
application. Eckankar has over 190 Eck centers in 92 countries around the world
and has had a local Eck center in the Twin Cities since 1971. This Eck center
was located in St. Paul at 1879 University Avenue from 1973 until 1975 and then
in Minneapolis at 807 SE 4th Street from 1975 to 1986 and at 2526 South 25th
Street from 1986 to the present. Eckankar purchased the property at the
intersectJ, on of TH 5 and CR 17 in 1986 for the purpose of relocatJ, ng it's
international headquarters from Menlo Park, California and establishing an
international adminstrative headquarters or campus in Chanhassen. The property
was purchased from the First National Bank of St. Paul which had acquired it in
a foreclosure proceeding following a failed proposal for a planned residential
development. The entire property was then and remains today a single parcel of
property legally described as Tract B, Registered Land Survey 88. Eckankar
purchased the entire 174 acres because the bank was selling it as a parcel.
There ~asn't an option to purchase a port].on of it. It was purchased for a
number of reasons including the fact that the central portion was at that time
and remains to date, designated by the City's Comprehensive Plan for campus
business purposes. This was consistent with Eckankar's proposal and their
thought of building an international aclminstrative campus in Chanhassen. The
concept plan for the first phase of that campus included an adninstrative office
building and a design graphic, audio visual and publishing fac].lity. Eckankar
has since discontinued publishing in house and contracts for most of that work
but at the time they were performing those sorts of functions themselves and
were proposing separate buildings for that. This concept plan was approved by
the Planning Co~.~nission and the City Council in 1985. Eckankar subsequently
withdrew the request before public hearing before the Planning Con~nission and
located it's international headquarters in New Hope, Minnesota. This is where
the international headquarters is presently and this is where it will continue
to be located. The Chanhassen property is proposed only for a church. The City
subsequently rezoned Eckankar's property from planned residential to single
family, medium and high density residential. Specifically the RSF, R-4 and R-12
zoning districts. Since churches are allowed as a conditional use in all three
of those zoning districts, Eckankar has decided to use it's property for a
church. The church, as we've stated in our application materials, will be a
building consecrated to religious worship where people will join together in
public worship under the direction of a person authorized under the laws of the
State of Minnesota to solemnize marriages. The church will include an 8g~ seat
sanctuary, a care takers residence, classroom facility and other areas as
detailed on the plans submitted which I'll review in a minute and all is
permitted by the Zoning Ordinance. The church will not include any uses not
allowed by the zoning ordinance definition of a church. Office space wii1 be
provided to serve administrative staff of the church only. As I mentioned,
international headquarters is and will remain in New Hope. I'd like Bob, maybe
we' 11 go through the slides fairly quickly. Hopefully everybody can see them.
This is a computer generated graphic of the Eckankar property and it also shows
Lake Ann Park there to the west or left of the graphic. North would be up on
this graphic. The church is shown in yellow about in the middle. Parking area
is the darker area right below or to the south of the church. To the west you
see the access road to Lake Ann Park. The church as you can see is located
virtually in the center of the property. I think Bob, let's try the next slide.
I believe it's the site plan. This is, it's not as pretty but I think it will
give you a little better idea of the relationships here. This is the Eckankar
2~
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1989
property. Again, you see the church in the center. The parking area
in~nediately to the south. The gross floor area of the building will be 48,000
square feet. The percent of entire property covered by the building is .4% or
.7 acres. The percent of the site, entire property covered by ~npervious
surface is 3.3% or 5.7 acres and the percent of site covered by parking area is
1.3% or 2.3 acres. The church is designed to accon]nodate approximately 20
employees. The sanctuary as I mentioned will have 800 seats. The number of
parking spaces required is 276 and the plan provides 290 including handicap
spaces. The building is 36 feet in height as measured under the zoning
ordinance due to the hipped roof. Probably a more accurate way to think of it
though is that it's height from the ground level in front of the building to the
highest point would be approximately 50 feet and from the ground level at the
rear or walkout level of the building will be approximately 65 feet. This
height compares to an allowable height under the zoning ordinance, given the
setbacks proposed of something in the neighborhood of 2,000 feet. Setbacks are
820 feet from the east, 930 feet from the w~st, 1,960 feet from the south and
1,980 from the north. Those are setbacks from property lines. Access will be
off of CR 17 via a driveway aligned with existing Saddlebrook Curve to the east.
You can see for reference later, in addition to the setback lines which you see
on this slide, there are also four lines designating sight sections or sight
line studies that we'll look at in a second. The sight line studies are taken
from the north, where it's approximately 2,000 feet the nearest residence and
coupled to the northeast there, and then we're taking one directly to the east.
Then there's one, as you can see it goes off to the north, kind of west,
northwest. Take a look at what would be visible from Lake Ann. Here are the
sight line studies. At the top we see sight line study of the 2,000 foot
distance from the closest home to the north. Across, there's so~e existing
vegetation that will be between most of those homes and the church and then the
church building would be down to the south. The second study is from
approx~.mately 1,000 feet away from a residential area to the northeast. Again
shows with the home to the northeast on the right there and the church on the
left. The third one down is directly from the east and shows some of the
landscaping that will be installed as part of the project and the relationship
of that landscaping to sight lines directly from the east. Then the fourth at
the bottom is the sight line study from Lake Ann and the church will not be
visible from Lake Ann given the intervening grades and the vegetation along that
eastern shore of Lake Ann. In addition to this sight line study, we've done
again some computer assisted diagrams that give views from different locations.
This is a view from the south and west at the entrance to Lake Ann Park. That's
the entrance road to the Park. Highway 5 going across the front and the church
is about in the center of the slide. It's difficult to see from this distance
but it appears as a slight structure to the left of the second tree. This slide
is from the intersection of TH 5 and CR 17. Again you see the intervening
grades screen all of the parking areas for the church and you can just see a
portion of the church about in the center of the slide. This slide is from the
southeast at the top of the TH 5 overpass. Over the railroad tracks. From the
top of that overpass, you will be able to see the church although it will be
several thousand feet away and there's a considerable amount of green area, of
course about 2,000 feet between the highway and the church. This is a view
looking from the east directly at the entrance of the church showing what will
be visible. The entrance road does curve around to the south and of course
there's landscaping which will be installed _~nbetween. This is a view from the
north over to the east side of north where the existing vegetation for the one
or two houses where existing trees will not intervene between the houses and the
21
City Council Meeting - April lq, 1989
church showing what those, we think it's 2 or 3 houses to the east and Greenwood
Shores would see the church. This is detailed site plan. Again, we probably
should have shown it a little earlier of the central portion of the Eckankar
property. The site for the church, showing the entrance road off of CR 17. The
parking area. The two service drives on the northeast and southwest. These
are some additional sight sections prepared to comply with city ordinances which
give essentially landscaping and berming details to demonstrate the techniques
that will be used to screen the parking areas from public roadways and from
other surrounding areas. This is another CAD slide. This slide is from the I
believe it's the south. It's from on the Eckankar property about 1,ggg feet
away. We picked a few slides that are actually from the property itself just to
give an idea of what the computer says anyhow the church will look like from
closer up. This is from about halfway up the entrance drive before the drive
curves to the south. This is a little bit closer down the entrance drive
showing the proposed landscaping as well as the church. This is the artist
rendering of the proposal which is to scale and does show proposed landscaping.
tn other words, those trees aren't just put there for show. They are consistent
with the landscaping plan. You can see the church is built of attractive
materials, high quality materials. The lighting has been designed to comply
with City Code and the recommendations of staff. As staff report indicates,
final lighting of the building itself will be reviewed with city staff and fine
tuned as the building goes into final design. The landscaping is in excess of
city requirements. Will include a variety of shrubery and different tree
varieties. The objective of both the landscaping and grading plan has been to
compliment the existing natural site conditions while meeting and in fact
exceeding the code requirements. Landscape will include a variety of deciduous
and coniferous trees as well as shrubery and flowers. The parking lots, as I
mentioned, will be bermed from all directions with landscaping on top of the
berms so 'the parking area and cars will not be visible from public rights-of-
way. Service areas are, you can see the one service road curving off to the
right in this slide. Go down to the lower walkout level of the church and will
also be screened with berms and landscaping. The balance of the site will be, a
portion of it closest to the building will be sodded. The balance will be seeded
in prairie grasses and maintained in that state. This is a floor plan of the
main floor which has been submitted to illustrate the relationships. As I
mentioned, it's a 48,0gg square foot building. The main worship area is on the
right in this slide. As I said, it has 80g seats surrounded by some classrooms,
chapels, pre-function areas and other small meetings rooms. To the left is the
adminstrative wing which will include offices for it's church staff, reading
room, Coats, storage, that sort of thing. The church as I mentioned w~.ll not
house any publishing facilities. Any theological seminary. Daycare center nor
any other use not allowed by the City Code. Public access to the main floor
will be through the front entrance which you can see between the two wings
there. From there into the sanctuary or the aclministrative offices or down the
steps or the elevator to the fellowship hall. This is the lower level floor
plan which will include a fellowship hall which is on the right underneath the
sanctuary area. Kitchen. Caretakers apartment as well as some additional
classrooms and storage. I think that's it for the slides. We can go back to
them if there are any questions specifically about the slides. In our
application materials and the subsequent letters and other materials ~nich we've
suhnitted, we've set forth in considerable detail the compliance of the church
with all of the standards and requirements of the zoning and other ordinances of
the city. Your planning staff has also reviewed the plans and prepared two
reports analyzing the project in detail against the standards of the zoning
22
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1989
ordinance. We've also submitted the statements of our development team and the
two independent experts that I mentioned earlier addressing specifically
compliance with the standards of the zoning ordinance. All of these materials
are in the record. We didn't plan to present them in detail tonight but we can
do that of course at the request of the Council. The planning staff and
Planning Con~nission have recommended approval subject to a number of conditions.
We have submitted letters to the City setting forth our agreement which each of
these conditions that were in the original staff report and in addition we'd
like to put into the record tonight, we haven't had the opportunity to put this
in writing but will if requested, that we are in agreement with the 9 new
conditions recommended by staff and listed during staff's presentat~_on this
evening. We also had some questions about a few details in those conditions
including the ones that Councilman Johnson mentioned but it was our feeling that
the conditions were close enough, that we understood the intent and we can work
with the City and with those conditions. I'd like to continue for a few moments
and address some additional issues that we didn't talk about at the Planning
Commission which we did touch on in our April 7th letter to the Council members
but which I'd like to dwell on a little bit further this evening. They go to
the inaccurate statements that have come to our attention about the Eckankar
church. Also to specifically address in a little more detail the issue of
surrounding property values. Finally to address the suggestion that the City
acquire the entire Eckankar property. A number of statements about Eckankar
have come to our attention. Have been made in various public forums and
publications over the past month. We'd like to address those which we feel are
relevent to the issues, land use issues before the Council tonight. First I'd
like to advise the Council that Prince is not a member of Eckankar. Has no ties
to Eckankar and is not related in any way to Eckankar's purchase of it's
property or to the proposed church. Second, Eckankar as I said, is a tax exempt
religious organization. Has been since 1971 and has been a tax exempt church
under the Internal Revenue Code since 1975. Eckankar's former international
headquarters building in Menlo Park was owned by Eckankar and was tax exempt as
is it's current international headquarters building in New Hope, Minnesota.
Eckankar has been paying property taxes on it's land in Chanhassen t~ date
because the land has not yet been put to use for church purposes. It was our
advice to Eckankar that, in that circumstances, there was enough authority for
the proposition that they owed the taxes, we felt they should go ahead and pay
them until they put the property to active use. Third, and I've mentioned this
a number of times already in the presentation but I do want it to be very clear~
that their world headquarters are presently located in New Hope and that's where~
they will remain. The proposal is for an Eckankar church. Not to relocate ~
their headquarters onto this property. Onto the Chanhassen property. And aS
I've stated a couple times tonight and we've set forth in our submission
materials as well, Eckankar will only use it's property in Chanhassen for
purposes allowed by the lawfully adopted zoning and other ordinances of the
City. Fourth, Eckankar will not host any large scale national or international
conventions, seminars or camp outs on it's Chanhassen property. Eckankar does
sponsor several seminars annually. These ssminars do involve several thousand
participants but they are all held at large convention centers throughout the
world which offer adequate facilities to accommodate participants. In fact we
have submitted for the record letters which Eckankar has received from locations
where these seminars have been held. Including Connecticut and Idaho to name
the ones I can think right off the top of my head. It has never been the intent
of Eckankar to have such a gathering at the Eckankar church and as I just said,
we agreed to the 9 new conditions set forth by staff tonight which would
23
Council Meeting - April lg, 1989
prohibit any such use of the property as we understand the conditions. Fifth is
that the plans which I just showed do provide for a caretakers residence in the
walkout level of the church as allowed by the zoning ordinance but there would
not be any other residency within the church or on the property by any member of
Eckankar. Eckankar is not a communal religion. Encourages it's member to live
throughout and within the con~aunity and there are no communal residences for
Eckankar 'members anywhere J.n the world and no intention on the part of Eckankar
or any of it's members to do so in Chanhassen. I'd like to spend now a few
minutes on the issue of surrounding property values. There are a couple issues
tied up in this general discussion and I'll try to call those out as I go. As I
mentioned a little bit earlier, we have c~rmissioned Robert Boblett and
Associates, including A1 Leirness to conduct two studies addressed to the issue
of whether the Eckankar church will adversely affect surrounding property
values. Both of these studies concluded that it would not based on facts which
he gleaned from property records, property sales surrounding other Eckankar
properties as well as frcra his research regardi.ng the surrounding residential
area to the Eckankar property in Chanhassen aund the supply and demand for that
type of residential property. The City has also addressed this issue. Staff
has concluded on a couple of occasions that they saw no facts that would
adversely impact surrounding property values. That the City also con~nissioned a
study by Andrus Agency Inc. on this issue. This study is quite long but if you
bear with it you will glean from it that Mr. Andrus also found no evidence
following his extensive investigation that Eckankar or any Eckankar facility
anlrwhere in the country has ever caused or been in any way related with a single
penny's worth of devaluation in surrounding property values. In fact Mr.. Andrus
found just what city staff has found. What Councilmember Johnson has found and
which everybody to our knowledge u/no has looked into Eckankar's properties in
other parts of the country and other parts of the world, have found that their
neighbors in all locations support th~n and find them to be a good neighbor.
_Mr_. Andrus goes on however from that poJ. nt to say that there may be a slight and
in all probability short lived dimunition in property values as a result of
doubts and perceptions in the minds of the con~aunity. This statement is
supported in his report exclusively by opinion. His opinion and the opinJ, on of
some of a number of anonl~nous real estate brokers that he apparently canvased.
We urge the Council to contrast those conclusions and the basis for them to Mr.
Leirness' study which looked at the facts. Looked at property values in areas
surrounding existing Eckankar facilities. Looked at the nature of the property
surrounding Eckankar in Chanhassen. The supply and demand for that type of
property and concluded that all things considered, there will be no adverse
impacts on surrounding property values. That's looking at it, comparing apples
to apples J.f you will but we thJ.nk there's a more important issue here which is
the fact that Mr. Andrus' conclusion that any dimunition in value at all,
however slight or temporary, would be the result of doubts and perceptions about
Eckankar as a religion rather than the use of Eckankar's property for a church.
The issue before the City Council is whether the use of the Eckankar property
for a church meets the standards of the zoning ordinance without reference to
the religion which will occupy the church. The issue is land use, not religion.
The Council's obligation is to weigh the facts before it and I emphasize facts
rather than opinions from anonymous realtors and the others, people canvased in
Mr. Andrus' report. The facts as compiled by City staff and by it's own
consultant, Mr. Andrus, Councilmember Johnson and others is that Eckankar is a
good neighbor everywhere in the country and has never had a negative impact on
surrounding property values at any location. We're unaware of any fact contrary
to that. Finally, I'd like to spend a few minutes on the suggestion that the
24
City Council Meeting - April 10~ 1989
City acquire Eckankar's entire property. It's our understanding that this
suggestion has been made to the Council. That the Council is sponsoring a
survey to determine whether there's public support for purchasing Eckankar's
property for school, con~nunity center and park uses. We want to state most
emphatically at the outset of this discussion, as we did in our March 10th
letter to the City Manager, that the property is not for sale. Eckankar has
invested substantial amounts of time and money in preparing and planning for
it's church. Has paid property taxes for several years and has paid substantial
amounts in special assessments and will not abandon it's effort to build it's
church on this property under any circ~mstances. We also see no circumstances
under which the City could justify an attempt to condemn the property. The City
has evaluated it's park needs on a number of occasions over the years and no
plan that we're aware of, including the City's duly adopted Comprehensive Plan,
park plan, has ever identified a need for parkland in addition to the 40 acres
which were obtained by the City. Were originally part of the parcel that is now
the Eckankar property several years ago let alone the need for 174 additional
acres. The suggestion that Eckankar's property could be condemned and rezoned
for a higher use and then resold or developed by the City at a profit is far
beyond the limitations of the City's eminent domain authority. Furthermore,
it's our understanding that even if the City did have the right, the ability to
condemn the property, it does not have the funds to do so. The cost of such an
acquisition would be substantially in excess of 5 million dollars. Again, it's
our understanding, the City currently doesn't have the debt capacity to bond for
this amount even if the citizens of Chanhassen would authorize it .... increases
in residential property values which were included in the survey questionaire
that went to, as I understand it, to all Eckankar residences but we urge you
also to consider the increase which such a proposal or bonding to fund the debt
to acquire the property would have on con~nercial and industrial taxes. It's our
analysis from information that we have available, that virtually every
con~nercial and industrial property would incur several thousand dollars a year
in increased taxes to fund such a bond issue and many would incur many thousands
of dollars in increased property taxes. Of course, if the debt capacity were
filled up to acquire the property, it would leave the City without the ability
to generate any additional funds to improve it. To build a con~nunity center.
To build a trail system or for that matter to do anything else. So we see, we
think it is very difficult to see how a scenario like this which would raise
residential as well as con~nercial and industrial taxes, and limit the City's
ability to provide additional services as opposed to land for it's residence,
would be in the best interest of the cc~munity. As I mentioned, Eckankar has
been paying property taxes a~d has paid and is continuing to pay special
assessments for trunk water and sanitary sewer projects. The City has received
and will continue to receive over roughly a 15 year period beginning with
Eckankar's acquisition of the property, something in excess of $500,000.00 in
taxes and special assessment payments from Eckankar. Acquisition of the
property on the other hand will cost the City over a 15 year period well in
excess of 9 million dollars. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 9 to 15
million dollars in acquisition costs, principle and interest payments,
management and maintenance expenses, etc. to say nothing of loss economic
benefit to the con~nunity as a whole as a result of the construction of the
church and the fact that that property will, with the church constructed, be
generating activity and spending in the city. We have prepared a diagram that
illustrates that. Perhaps we can get it out in a minute if there are questions.
I'll conclude now just by saying that the Chanhassen zoning ordinance does
define church. Makes churches as conditional use in residential zoning
25
Council Meeting April lg, 1989
districts and set forth standards for the issuance of conditional use permits.
The Eckankar church falls within the definition of church. Meets all the
standards for the issuance of a conditional use permit. These facts are
conclusively shown in the materials which we've submitted as well as the staff
reports and other analyses that have been performed and submitted for the
record. The church will be a_n attractive, high quality addition to it's
neighbor and to the City. We request that the City Council approve the
Conditional Use Permit without any further delay. We believe the City Council
has all the information needed to make a land use decision which is the issue
before the Council. Further delays will cause Eckankar damages, particularly if
the 1989 construction season is lost. The proposal has been presented and
process by Eckankar with the intent of being under construction and completed in
1989 in order to ,serve their members. So we urge you to consider the issue and
to decide it and to approve the conditional use permit this evening. With that,
I'll conclude. I'm available of course to answer questions as are all members
of the development team and the two consultants that we have retained. All of
whom are here to answer ~natever questions the Council or the public may have.
We appreciate your time.
Mayor Chmiel: Is there anyone else wishing to address thi. s proposal? If not,
those who wish to present their sides of their proposals would please come up
and indicate their names and addresses and who they also represent.
Councilman Johnson: Mr. Mayor, I think with the visiting...to hear a short few
words from each m~aber of the Council as to where they sit on it at this point
so they know where we're c~ning from. So they can be more precise in their
presentation.
Mayor Chmiel: I would just as soon proceed with the position that I had
indicated and we'll indicate that afterwards.
Tom Hickey: Honorable Mayor, members of the Council and fellow citizens. My
name is Tom Hickey and I reside at 699g Utica Lane. I've been a member of this
co~rmunity for 17 years. For the past 3g years I have been i.n the commercial
real estate business and I've seen this conmunity grow from a sleepy hollow to
it's present status. As a m~mber of the Concerned Citizens for Chanhassen and
also one of their workers, they've asked me to be their spokesman this evening.
The Concerned Citizens for the Future of Chanhassen was formed as a result of
the March 1st Planning Commission recommendation for the citizens of Chanhassen
to improve co~nunications between the citizens and the City. Our only concern
].s the gross misuse of the 174 acres of prime lakeside land in the heart of our
con~nunity. We also need to dete~nine if this concern was shared by other
members of our community. In order to determine if there was support for our
views of this issue, we held informal meetings with neighbors. Met with the
local city officials. Performed phone surveys. Mailed out petitions.
Conducted door to door petitioning and ran ads in the local paper. As a result
of these efforts, 2,576 citizens of Chanhassen signed our pet]ti, on in favor of
supporting the City acquiring the 174 acres of tax exempt Eckankar property for
public use. At this time Mr. Mayor we would like to present to you and your
Council 2,576 signatures. At this time I would like you to bring the petition
forward. I would like to invite all of those in attendance here tonight who
support this pet].tion to stand at this time. As concerned citizens for the
future of Chanhassen, we would like to lend our support and direction to the
City Council and to help you in making the tough decisions that lie ahead for
26
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1989
the future betterment of this con~nunity. Thank you~
Dean Brown: My name is Dean Brown. I'm building chairman of the Family of
Christ Lutheran Church which was the last religious organization that built a
church in this town. What I'm here to do is two things. First of all, as a
member of the building con~nittee, that I would like to make sure that the
Council and the Planning Co~nission do the same thing to Eckankar as they did to
us and that is make sure they comply with every ordinance that we had to comply
with. To give yOu a background, we sat with the city in January of 1988 to
begin the process of a building permit and we actually received that building
permit in June of 1988 so consequently it took us 6 months to get a building
permit and I hope that that same consideration is given to Eckankar. Second of
all, we would like to note that due to all of the ordinances for our church, we
had an additional $150,000.00 added to our program which originally only
$400,000.00 so the percentage is quite substantial. So I want to make sure that
as a council, that you consider the same thing for this religious organization
as you did for us. As I looked at his slides, I did not see a secondary access
for fire which for us was an additional $8,000.00. We had originally asked that
the City Council and City Planning Con~nission for a balcony and we were required
to put in an elevator due to the State requir~nents for handicap access to all
areas. I did not see that in this particular church. Currently our lot is
about 4 acres. We are developing on 2 acres of that lot right now and to meet
the minimum requirements of the landscaping requirements for the City of
Chanhassen, we're spending $56,000.00 and we hope that that same consideration
and requirements are also given to Eckankar for their 174 acres. We had to
provide one parking space for every 2 to 2 1/2 people in our congregation.
I hope that those same requirements are imposed upon Eckankar. We had to pave
and also curb our entire parking lot and have been warned we will never be able
to park on the street so we hope those same considerations are also given to
Eckankar. For your information, paving and curbing our parking lot for 93
spaces was an additional cost of almost $66,000.00. We had to sprinkle our
building. We hope that same consideration is also done for Eckankar. Last, I
would like to appeal to Eckankar in terms of as a resident of the nearby area. I
think it's important to realize that you're a neighbor here and that the
neighbors behind you are giving you a statement in terms of what they think of
your organization. When we built our religious organization, our concern was
that we were expecting to get from the in~nediate neighborhood and I hope that as
a Council, that you also consider that. What is good for the City of
Chanhassen? Is Eckankar going to provide for the city residents or is it going
to provide for someone else?
Mayor Chmiel: Dean, for the record, could we have your address please?
Dean Brown: 18737 Clearview Drive, Minnetonka.
Alan Putnam: My name is Alan Putnam. I live at 6285 Chaska Road. I have two
things. One is since the church will require very little, a small percentage of
the land that is there, one alternative might be to allow the church to be built
and use approximately 20 acres and perhaps the city buy the rest of the land
from them. Another thought that I wanted to give is that most of the churches
that have been built in the con~nunity have been churches that have been built to
meet the needs of the residents of Chanhassen and I guess I'd like to know, how
many members of the Eckankar organization live in Chanhassen now?
27
~C[t~ Council Meeting - April lq, 1989
David Schupe: My name is David Schupe. I'm a fellow Minnesotan. I live at
1853 Stowe Avenue in Arden Hills. Next month on this day I will be flying to
Warsaw, Poland and I'll be a participant in the Second International Conference
on ways to promote the 1981 United Nations Declaration on the el]mination of all
forms of intolerance and discrimination based on religion or belief and it is in
that capacity that I'm here to observe these proceedings and your decision.
Walter Whitehill: Good evening. I'm Walter Whitehill. I reside at 725g
Hazeltine Blvd.. I noticed how artfully the representative speaking for
Eckankar told the Council how it must conduct it's business. They told the
Council what it could and what it could not consider. As a member of this
con~nunity ! object to that quite strongly and I would think that the Council
would too. They told us that the religious belief and teaching were of no
importance. That they could not be considered and to the Council and to my
friends here, 1 believe that this is wrong. Now I want to ask whichever
representative for Eckankar would choose to answer, who is the head of the
Eckankar church? Is it a mortal or is it the sane god that's recognized and
worshipped by the Christian Judeo con~nunity of the world? Is there an answer?
Come gentlemen, let's not be so bashful. I did address it to you. You did say
you were here to answer questions did you not? From the con~nunity, that was
part of your opening statement.
Peter Beck could not be heard on the audio tape.
Walter Whitehill: No way. He said that he was here to answer questions from
the con~nunity. I am representing at least two from the con~nuni-ty and I'm asking
that question now.
Peter Beck: A~ I to understand that the Council is directing that question?
Walter [Jnitehill: No sir, I am directing it to you. You requested questions
from the comnunJ, ty. Do you not have the answer?
Mayor Chmiel: So we don't basically get into a debate. If you could just
proceed with the balance of what you have to say, I'd appreciate it.
Walter Wnitehitl: Mr. Mayor, I am complying with the opening statement of this
representatJ.ve and I'm asking for an answer to my question. I don't want to
take up any more time. Time is being taken up here.
Mayor Chmiel: We could address that question as we proceed and maybe Mr. Beck
could...
Walter Whitehill: Then the Council is changing the rules of the deck by saying
that you will not allow this question to be answered at this time?
Mayor Ck~iel: I guess that' s basically what I'm saying, yes.
Walter W]~itehill: Does the entire Council side with the Mayor on this?
Councilman Johnson: Mr. Mayor, I do not believe the lawyers for Eckankar can
speak on the religious beliefs of Eckankar. I don't know if the religious
leaders of Eckankar are here due to ~ne treatment they were given 5 years ago
when they were here and did try to answer these questions.
28
City Council Meeting - April 10~ 1989
171
Walter Whitehill: That's a sad state of affairs~
Councilman Johnson: Now I can tell you what my research has shown. I'm not a
member of Eckankar but I can tell you what all reading various books and talking
to various people that the answer to your question, if you'd like it from
somebody who's not a member of Eckankar Church. They believe in one god. They
believe there is only one god.
Walter Whitehill: That god being whom?
Councilman Johnson: If there's only one, it's the same one that you and
I believe in.
Walter Whitehill: No way. That's not what I understand and that's why I
addressed the question. I'm going to close in this way. I believe that the
religious aspect of this is the most important issue before the Council and
before the con~nunity.
Councilman Johnson: Can you give me the basis that you do not believe that the
god that Eckankar believes in is the same god you believe in?
Walter Whitehill: Well I didn't ask the Council you see. I asked
representatives of Eckankar.
Councilman Johnson: Ah, but you won't answer the question either.
Walter Whitehill: Certainly I will. The books that I have read and the people
that I have talked to are contrary to what you state.
Mayor Chmiel: Let me redirect something here if I can. I would like to ask Mr.
Beck if he would like to address that. If he does not, he does not have to
answer.
Peter Beck: Mr. Mayor, we are here as representatives of Eckankar to answer any
questions that the Council might have with respect to the issues before it. The
land use issues. We are not here to debate or defend Eckankar as a religion.
Walter Whitehill: I'll have to let that answer suffice for now. So I leave
appealing to the Council that by god it's time to stand up on your own hind legs
and declare where you stand from a religious standpoint. No way should this
country, down to the individual communities, be so weaken that we are afraid to
stand up and say no to anyone who will propose an organization that h~s a belief
that is counter to the religious background that this country was founded upon
and that which we believe in. Thank you.
Matthew Hoffman: My name is Matthew Hoffman. I reside at 931 Saddlebrook Trail
in Chanhassen. I've been a resident here for approximately a month and a half.
I have a direct view out my patio door looking right up the driveway of the
proposed Eckankar site. I do know a little bit about plant material. I have a
couple of questions regarding the site plan. Would you be willing to answer
those?
Mayor Chmiel: Would you address that particular issue?
29
City Council Meeting - April lq, 1989
Matthew Hoffman: Yes I would. I guess first off, I would like to know on your
CAD drawings. Are they projected, your plant material size to me looks like it
is mature height.
Peter Beck: Mr. Chairman, the architects advise me that the landscaping as
shown on the CAD drawings was at time of planting but they also showed existing
vegetation which will not be disturbed.
Matthew Hoffman: I thought he said 5 years.
Peter Beck: I said 5 years. I was wrong. 5 years is kind of an industry
standard. In this case, they wanted to show time of planting.
Matthew Hoffman: And I'm to understand that most of the views are an average of
50 to 6g feet tall on the building from the east?
Peter Beck: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, the height from the front door
to the top is 5~ feet. Okay, that's not the way they define it in the zoning
ordinance but that's the p~y you and I call 5~ feet. Then from the back, it
would be roughly 65 feet. Actually it's closer to 6g feet. But views depend on
where you are in relationship to grades. In many instances, intervening grades
will screen a portion or substantial portions of the church.
Matthew Hoffman: I guess with your site plan there must be a planting list of
some kind. I'd like to make the Council aware I guess to take a close look at
that from planting size. It takes a long time to get trees to mature size and
just want the Council to be aware of this. I know from a fact that I have a
view that is not going to shield, no matter how many trees they plant, it's not
going to shield a 60 foot tall copper or whatever plated roof from my view and
my neighborhood's view no matter what kind of trees you plant. A_nd if you're
planning on moving large caliper trees into that area, I hope you have a big
budget and coincidentally, what would be the landscape budget for a job of this
magn i tude?
Peter Beck: There is a detailed landscape plan that has been submitted and
reviewed by the City and it's consistency with City requirements has been
documented. You're quite right, portions of the church will be visible from
surroundirg properties and I have no reason to believe yours wouldn't be one.
The plantings will be at an average of 2 1/2 caliper inches and I do not know
whether or not a budget for the landscaping has been arrived at. If it has, I
don't know w~at it is.
Matthew Hoffman: For the Council's infommation, a 2 1/2 inch caliper ash tree,
which is a standard shade tree planted in a lot of plantings these days,
approximately 2g to 25 feet tall maximum at 2 1/2 inches. I guess that's all.
If they don't have a landscape budget, I wish them luck. It's going to cost
them a pile of money.
Janet Weaver: My name is Janet Weaver. I'm a future homeowner in Chanhassen.
My current address is 4399 West ll3th Street in Bloomington, Minnesota. Since
Councilman Jay Johnson made statements as to the one true god, I felt it was my
obligation to address his statement for the record. And to address that
comnent, on tine one same god, I'm compelled to note for the record that after an
30
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1989
Y 73
extensive doctrinal dJ. scussion with an Eckankar member this past week, our
doctrinal differences are vastly different and Eckankar doctrinally stands,
their doctrinal stands do not align with or stand in harmony with the god I
serve, namely the god of the Bible. Jehovah God and his expression of himself
in Jesus Christ.
Susan Johnsrud: My name is Susan Johnsrud. I live at 7061 Shawnee Lane in
Greenwood Shores. I'd like to add to the previous speaker's statement on a book
entitled Eckankar from the Spiritual Conterfeits Project in Berkley, California.
It states the Bible, the entire structure of it's moral teaching and Jesus
Christ himself are identified with the evil power of the cosmos. In a word,
with the devil. If this is not a put down of another religion, then it is hard
to imagine what is or could be. In actual fact, Eckankar's conm~only made claim
that we do not put down any other religion. It is not so much false as it is
incomplete. It should really read, we do not put down any other religion to
it's face. I would also like to read from this book, something written by Paul
Twitchell himself in 1967. There is too much dishonesty among those who try to
get tax shelters because they claim to be religious groups. God didn't
establish non-taxable foundations so why should I try to get under such claims.
If Eck can not take care of itself, then it can be of little value to anyone
else. It also states that Eckankar has been given tax exemption from Federal
Income Tax. It states the identification number and the Chairman of the Board
of Directors, W. Elmo DeWitt and this is dated 1973. So it is definitely a
conflict of interest here between Paul Twitchell's teachings. My husband and I
and our 3 boys moved here last August and little did we know what we were
getting into. We purchased the original Kerber farm in Greenwood Shores. I
would like to know if Eckankar would eventually have a negative impact on
property values, who would be responsible for the purchase of our home if we
decide to sell it? We had planned on spending the rest of our lives in
Chanhassen and at this point, we do not feel that we know if we are going to
stay. Thank you.
Doug Cook: My name is Doug Cook and I live at 290 Trappers Pass. I don't have
a prepared statement but I'm absolutely amazed at what I'm hearing here.
There's a litness test on moving into Chanhassen I understand. You must be
Christian. That's a sad status of affairs. Back in the 30's in Germany, they
had a crew they got together and if you were Jewish, you didn't have a long life
span. There were 6 million people that were killed because of religious
intolerance. ~nat's what I've been hearing here. Think about the discussions
that have been going on. I'm here because I'm upset about the increased taxes.
I'm here because I can not see the value of buying property for 5 million, if
we're lucky and then we have to develop that property which will cost additional
money. We have to pay the note. I don't know where the money's going to come
from but the religious intolerance thing, that's a sad state of affairs for
everybody here in Chanhassen. Listen to what has been said. You've had an
individual stand up here and demand of another individual in this room what his
religious beliefs are. That is nobody's business but the individual person. We
took a pledge of allegiance when this thing started. One nation under God. It
didn't say your god or your god. Didn't it say one nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty. Liberty means the freedom to practice religion. And
justice for all. If these people after complying with all of the requirements
of staff, are not awarded or given the ability to build their church, there is
something inherently wrong with Chanhassen and some 170 acres of land if they
get it, will not solve that problem.
31
City Council Meeting - April 10; 1989
Leneda Rahe: Hello. My name is Leneda Rahe and I reside at 1021 Carver Beach
Road in Chanhassen. I was wondering with the results of the petitions, would it
be possible for a referendum to be taken to see how many people are in support
of the City acquiring the property for public use? I'd like to know, just
because I don't understand what would prompt a referendttm and how you go about
that. Could someone from the Council or the Mayor?
Don Ashworth: The City Council has the ability to establish a referendum. It's
my understanding that the City Council, we have again sent out the survey and
it's my understanding that the Council wants to look at the results of that
survey before making any determination as to whether or not to conduct a
referendum.
Leneda Rahe: Okay, thank you.
Mary Lang: Good evening. My name is Mary Lang and I live at 1000 Butte Court
right across the street from the proposed building site. Up until a few minutes
ago, until that last gentleman spoke, I was very much ashamed that we had chosen
to live in Chanhassen. I cane because I had one of my distant cousins had a
very poor experience with the Eckankar religion so I was very skeptical when I
read in the paper of their proposed building of a church. I have a 5 year old
daughter who's going to be waiting out for the bus right out on CR 17 and I can
honestly say I'm going to go home tonight a lot more worried about the prejudice
of the general public than I am what I have heard about the Eckankar church. So
I hope all those people with young children who spoke up tonight and applauded
the prejudice can go home and take a close, hard look at themselves. Thank you.
Sandy Eastling: My name is Sandy Eastling. I reside at 7285 Pontiac Circle.
When I came it was not my intention to speak whatsoever. However, I feel that
it is important that I state that even though some of us may have our own
personal beliefs regarding the religious stature of Eckankar, I personally do
believe in personal religious freedom. However, I feel that i't is important for
us 'to look at some of the elements that have been listed and even though one
person may get up and speak, it does not necessarily mean that while some of us
are opposed to the use of the land as outlined by Eckankar, we may not
necessarily advocate religious intolerance. I personally don't feel that that
is the general consensus of the people who at one time did stand up in support
of other use of the land. I would encourage the City Council to take into
perspective that when one person gets up here and speaks, they do speak for one.
They may speak for more than one. I also agree that we should not be intolerant
of religion. However, we must look at what is the best use of the land for
Chanhassen. Will Eckankar serve the people of Chanhassen? Are there members
within Chanhassen who have requested that this church be located here? Or is
this the will of a church who does not necessarily have a con~nunity interest
coming in. Thank you.
Ken Walter: My name is Ken Walter. I reside at 341 Deerfoot Trail. I do not
know a lot about the Eckankar religion. My question primarily is the tax
concerns and I guess basically my question would be, if we do do this purchase
option, what solution can be presented in the future to prevent the same thing
from happening again? Chanhassen only has so much money to spend and the card
that came out and the information that I read about at the time was mentioning 3
1/2 to 5 million dollars. You're looking at a 9 million to 15 million dollar
investment, if those nt~nbers are right. I don't know what the exact dollars
32
City Council Meeting - April 10~ 1989
t75
are. My concern is where is this money going to come from? What other uses or
bettermen for the next 14 to 15 years could this money be put forward to? It's
my money. It's all of our taxpayer's money and that's my concern. Thank you.
Doris Hanson: My name is Doris Hanson. I live at 6210 Cypress Drive. My main
concern is, what about all that lakeshore property? I understand from the
slides the church was not going to have a view of the lake so what's going to
happen to all this lakeshore? I feel that our lakes are so precious to us and
should be protected. I live around Lake Minnewashta and I moved there primarily
for the use of the lake and I really w~rry about protecting our lakeshores.
Also, what about the use of the highways? Right now TH 5 is so underdeveloped
and there's no money appropriated at this time so what about all the heavy
traffic that's going to be coming in? Thank you.
Councilman Johnson: I think because of what she asked there, there's a little
misconception there. The City owns parkland all the way around the lakeshore so
between the Eckankar property and the lake is parkland owned by the City. So
they do not have any lakeshore property whatsoever. I 'm not sure about the
highway question.
Mayor Chmiel: Highway 5 is in the process of hopefully getting started sometime
this year and will be completed by 1991. That will be a four lane highway.
Mary Johnson: I'm Mary Johnson. I reside at 1044 Pontiac Lane in Chanhassen
and I was interested in the slides that you show but I'd like to know what it
would look like in the wintertime since we in Minnesota have winter most of the
year. Also, I am a Christian but even if my church wanted 174 acres of tax
exempt land, I would be against that and I don't know why you need 174 acres of
tax exempt land and what the future is for that land. Your church site takes a
small portion of that land. What is the future?
Robin Nordby: My name is Robin Nordby and I live at 6801 Redwing Lane in
Chanhassen. I would like to address the mailing that the Council sent out last
week, the little green card with the estimation of what you pay for taxes now
and what the proposed increase w~uld be if referendum. The estimated increases
in taxes to acquire the land, do they contemplate new homes? Chanhassen is
growing enormously and do they contemplate the increase in revenue that this
city is going to have for 1989 and forward? The increase that was shown, was
that annual? That was an annual increase and I think at the $100,000.00 level,
it was about $103.00 annually which you split that in 12 months and that's a 12
month figure. Because of the overcrowding of this school, I was in the spring
program and it was ridiculous. All the parents could not get into the building.
What are the proposed or the plans of the City Council for the proposed
facilities for the school, for the con~nunity center and what other sites have
you thought of for these facilities and what is going to be the actual
difference in tax dollars, is my question? How much will the other sites
increase our taxes? We know this is going to increase. We know that taxes are
going to be increased no matter where the facility is. The appraisals of the
properties, I just have one comment on that. About the poll given in the St.
Paul Pioneer Press. There was an overwhelming response that people would not
purchase land next to an organization such as this and that's I think a big
concern. Thank you.
33
City Council Meeting - April lg, 1989
Mark Job_nson: My name is Mark Johnson. I live at lgl~ Butte Court, Chanhassen.
I guess I'm here as a real confused citizen to begin with. There's been a lot
of misinformation that's been thrown around this thing it seems for the last
month, two months. I guess I'm confused at sc~ne of the things I've heard fram
the people of our con~nunity. Some of the religious beliefs and the things that
go on there. But I'm really confused at, if we have a church that's moving into
our con]nunity, why do we have 14 blue suits sitting here instead of 1 individual
from their congregation that can give us some information just basically on who
they are. I would feel a lot better as a citizen if, I don't care if it's a
Lutheran church. If it's a Jewish church. Whoever, if they're open enough to
come and sit and talk to me and say well this is what our plans are instead of
bringing the 5th Fleet in here and trying to get everything done that way.
Dawn Opitz: My name is Dawn Opitz and I live at 87g Nez Perce Court. I guess
just to be really honest, I wasn't really involved in what was going on in the
community before this and this, if anything else, it's just helped me to be
aware of what goes on and it has caused me to be concerned and take part. But
as the woman who spoke before said, when I really started being interested in
this was when I went to the first and second grade spring concert here at
Chanhassen and she's absolutely right. That was for first and second graders
and not even all the parents could fit into the auditorium to watch your
children. I also have a fourth grader who's in a class that has welt over 3g
children and this is the main concern to me. My concern is school and I'd love
for my kids to be in school around here, to stay around here. I'm with the
other woman I guess. I'd like to know what are my other options then as far as
my children's schooling goes because I just don't think that it's fair to the
kids or the children. What we have right now. It may be selfish on my part to
obtain Eckankar's land, but this is for best interest of the most people in
Chanhassen and that's when I started being concerned.
Bobble Kussard: My name is Bobble Kussard. I live at 7694 South Shore Drive.
Eckankar isn't in the conraunity yet. Their church isn't here. It will seat
people so I would assu~me, I would like to be near my church so they will start
moving into our cor~nunity. I don't have a problem with that but back to the
school issue, I was at the program. There wasn't room for the parents we have.
We are growing leaps and bounds. Let them go someplace else. Let's take care
of us for now.
CounciLman Boyt: I'd like to respond to that situation. Before you speak,
those of you who are interested in the school issue, I hope you recognize the
City Council doesn't have impact on the school district. If you would take your
concerns to the school district, you'd find that they t~ave a methcd of funding
their schools that says let's wait until the doors break out and then we'll put
a referendt~n in front of the people and see if they pass it. I suggest that if
you think these schools are crowded, you let the school district know that and
maybe you'll get some action. They plan to build another elementary school but
they're still busing kids from Chaska into this elementary school. I think you
should let them know if you're concerned about that.
Jo Ann Nelson: My name is Jo Ann Nelson and I reside at 729g Catcus Curve. My
view is facing right that line. I supposed you couldn't get any closer as a
hc~neowner. I don't know much about the religious organization so I can't judge
them in any way and I have no problem with that. I'm concerned about the land
use. I'm concerned about the 8g(~ people or however many and how many days out
34
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1989
of the week do they worship. I'd like to find that out. Is there anybody who
could answer that? Are you going to coming every day out of the week or on
Sunday?
Peter Beck: The church will of course be open every day of the week and there
will be 20 employees working there during the day and there will be small
meetings in the evenings to accon~nodate up to 30 or 40 participants and then the
main meetings would be on Sundays. That is the scenario that was analyzed in
the Environment Impact Statement in terms of impacts on traffic and that sort of
thing.
Joan Spalding: My name is Joan Spalding and I live at 7520 Chippewa Trail, just
right behind here in Chanhassen. I would just like to pose the same question to
them as you did to the tlnpak people and since they've got all that extra land,
if they'd want to build some softball fields and stuff like that and take that
into consideration.
Councilman Johnson: I actually drew some in on my diagrams.
Peter Beck: We have advised the Council on a couple of occasions when inquiries
have been made about the availability of land for a co_~nunity center and then
for a possible con~nunity center and middle school that Eckankar would make land
available, reasonable amounts of land available for those types of uses at a
fair and reasonable cost and I assume, however we did suggest that all those
discussions cease until the issue of the church was resolved and I suggest that
we treat this suggestion in the same manner. I'm sure that Eckankar would be
open to looking at the site plan but perhaps it's something that should await
resolution of the fundamental issues.
Linda Kullman: My name is Linda Kullman and I live at 1015 Pontiac Court. I've
been sitting around just like everybody else here listening to what's been said
on both sides. I have a real concern. My property is very close to the
property that I' 11 be looking at the church. Obviously I have some concerns
about that but the biggest concern that I have is that I don't understand why we
have to wait to talk about future. What I'm concerned about is not the church.
How it's going to affect our property taxes. How it's going to affect the whole
environment and for someone to say, well we'll talk about that later, I really
think it's much better for you and for the conm~unity to sit down and really talk
this out first rather than hold back. I just have a personal thing where I'm
afraid that you're holding something back and once you have control over that
land, I'm not going to have anything to say about it.
Councilman Johnson: Could we get Peter to address his reasoning for not
discussing the future?
Peter Beck: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, the intent of the application
and all the materials that have been suhnitted in support of it is to set forth
a very narrow issue for the City Council to consider and to decide. As the
Council may know, in 1985 with the concept plan for the adminstrative campus
showed in concept potential residential development to the north of the campus
and roughly the northern 1/3 of the Eckankar property and potential future
con~nercial development on roughly the southern 1/3 of the property because at
that time portions of the southern 1/3 were already designated, if not zoned for
con~nercial use and the City requested in connection with that rezoning and
35
City Council Meeting - April 1~, 1989
platting proceeding, that concept plans for the north and south be provided. It
was our opinion that in connection with this conditional use permit procedure,
getting into those issues would unnecessarily and unduly complicate the single
issue before the Council which is a conditional use permit for the church. So
what you have be_fore you is an application for a conditional use permit on what
is now one single parcel of property and that's what you should be evaluating.
We just don't believe that clouding the issue with discussions about prices for
land for schools or co~_Tmunity centers or whatever ].s going to the issues before
you. That's why we've suggested that those discussions await resolution of the
issue on the conditional use permit. That's why we haven't shown any conceptual
plans or other thoughts for other parts of the property. And also, quite
frankly, Eckankar has not devoted any internal time towards a lot of thought
about the rest of the property. They are focuse~d on this church project. They
put a lot of energy, a lot of time, a lot of money into it and that's where
they're focusing their efforts and I guess that's where we ask the Council to
direct their attention.
Dan Mahady: My n~ne is Dan Mahady. I live at 1020 Butte Court. I'd just like
to say that J.f there's going to be 174 acres of tax exempt land, I think it best
be_ served by the whole cor~nunity and not a private tax-exem, pt organization
which, from what I'm hearing so far, is offering nothing back to the corcraunity.
Councilman Johnson: Mr. Mayor, can I ask Peter a question on that? Peter, as
you understand the zoning, assessment tax rules, it can only be tax exempt if
it's used for church purposes. Are you aware of any other places where a large,
only a small portion of this property is actually going to be used for church
purposes. Are you aware whether the remainder of the property, whether our tax
assessor can determine if the remainder of the property is or is not tax exempt?
I would believe from my layman understanding of tax law, %fnich I don't think
anybody really understands tax laws, that you're not going to utilize the whole
174 acres so the ~note 174 should not be tax exempt. Only that portion utilized
for actual active church purposes.
Peter Beck: Mr. Mayor, Councilmember Johnson, I think I would ask that the bulk
of that question be directed to the City Attorney for a number of reasons but it
is, if the church is constructed on this property, Eckankar will apply to Carver
County for tax exemption. It's a single tax parcel so that will be the way the
application will go in. It will be the Carver County Assessor's responsibility
to determine whether all or a portion of it will be tax exempt. Quite frankly,
I don't know, I have not researched that issue for Eckankar. If I had of
course, it probably wouldn't be something that I would, the results of the
research probably woulnd't _be something that I would set forth in a public
meeting. I am aware though, from representing some other clients, that there is
some case law where a church owned separate parcels of property, separate tax
parcels, separate legally described parcels, that tax exemption on parcels that
were adjacent to the, I can't remember right now whether they're adjacent or in
close proximity to their parcel they were using, was denied on the grounds that
it wasn't used for church purposes. Whether that rule of law would apply in
this situation with a single tax parcel, I do not know. I think again, those
are issues that will be resolved by the Carver County Assessor and also perhaps
maybe the City Attorney is more up to date on that issue and could give you a
more definitive answer.
36
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1989
Councilman Johnson: Actually he gave me about the same answer. I was hoping
you had more information.
Gloria Cox: Mayor, councilpeople, my name is Gloria Cox. I reside at 6990
Shawnee Lane in Chanhassen. I've been here since 1977 with my husband and my
family. First of all, I'd like to coherent on the fact that here in Chanhassen
everyone who turned out for the meeting tonight should be complimented for the
time and the effort that they have put into this very important meeting. After
all, we're not getting paid but they are. It sounds like they've done a very,
very good job. You should be conxnended but on the other hand, our dream is
alive and well. Most of the people that I have talked to here in Chanhassen are
very involved in their con~nunity and yes, number 1 priority to the people I've
talked to is religious rights. So it's not the religious right issue as much as
it is that this 174 acres of land was supposed to be develo~ment of housings for
family, for young children to grow up in a good, healthy environment. Also, it
would mean tax paying. Educational opportunities for our young people and if
we, right now, and I don't know...the heavens and earth of this world. Thank
you.
William Olson: My name is William Olson and I reside at 1060 view Court. My
question to the Council is, due to the given traffic that will be added to
CR 17, will the speed laws be the same or will that be changed or is that taken
under advisement?
Jim Chaffee: As far as I know the speed laws will stay the same. Enforcement,
as you all know, is attempting to be picked up right now by the Carver County
Sheriff's Department. I think they're doing a pretty good job of it. The speed
limit will, to my knowledge, stay the same.
William Olson: Given to the amount of traffic that is-going to be taken along
that road, being at 1060 view Court, my driveway is no more than 200 feet off of
CR 17. I do have an 8 year old son. I do worry very much about the added
traffic that will be along that road and along for our corm~unity. I hope it's
taken into advisement more than it is.
Councilman Johnson: J~m, that also is a county road, the County has
jurisdiction on the speed l~mits? We're only advisory towards them?
J~m Chaffee: That is correct.
Bill Eggert: My name is Bill Eggert and I reside at 800 Preakness Lane. I'm
somewhat confused and I just have one question to direct towards the Eckankar
representatives. Earlier it was stated that if the construction of the church
was not approved, that the acquisition of this land would be very costly.
Somewhere in the area of 9 to perhaps 15 million dollars. Then later I heard
that if it was approved, that there would be a fair and reasonable cost for
acquiring some of the remaining property. My question probably leans towards,
is the fair and equitable purchase for the remaining property contingent upon
the approval of construction of the church?
Peter Beck: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, what we have said is that we
suggest that entire issue be deferred until the issue before the Council is
resolved. We haven't said anything about contingencies. We just think that is
an issue in terms of acquisition and costs that should be considered after the
37
City Council Meeting - April lq, 1989
current issue J.s resolved.
Bill Eggert: My statement would be 'that if 9 to 15 million dollars represents a
fair and equitable purchase, if the church is not approved, if the church were
approved and we were to acquire say half of the remaining property, would we be
looking at a cost of anywhere from 4 1/2 million to 7 1/2 million and would the
residents in Chanhassen be willing to pay that price to acquire that land? I
think that the citizens might want to be heard on that.
Linda Kullman: I have one question, and maybe you can kind of clarify something
for me. Do I understand this correctly? Right now that lar~, the City of
C~anhassen now that it's owned by this company or this church, we will not as a
city ever get any kind of tax from that land period fr~m now until doomsday?
I understanding this correctly?
Mayor Chmiel: As you just mentioned, that's a portion of it but it's not been
decided until the Carver County reviews that status of that land and determines
whether or not all of that 174 acres will be tax free or will not be tax free.
Linda KulLman: Do ~e have to make a decision or does the decision have to be_
made before that decision by Carver County is made?
Councilman Johnson: I would say that if for some reason we turned down the
church, then the land would stay on the tax rolls as it is now and has been ever
since they owned it. If the church is approved, then it goes to Carver County
to determine the change of it's status. Is that a more clear answer?
Linda Kullman: Yes it is. I just want to make sure that I understand exactly
what our options are as a community and if we do have any options.
CounciLman Johnson: I think we will be making some suggestions to Carver County
Assessor's Office on u/nat we would like to see him do with it.
Linda Kullman: Is there a way that as a co~Tmunity we can find out whether or
not we have to make a decision or if the decision has to be made before the
Carver County Assessment? To me that's real important because if we just turn
over that whole entire parcel of land now, we are never going to get any kind of
tax revenue off of that ever.
Don Ashworth: I did talk to Jean Shivley. She's the Assistant County Attorney.
It's their office's responsibility to settle any type of tax related issues so
if there's any court proceedings, it will go back through their office. After
the number of articles that had appeared in the newspaper, Jean had called me to
try to correct those statements and to tell me that in her opinion that she
would do everything within her power to insure that that full 174 acres did not
go tax exempt and that only the acreage associated with the church would receive
that tax exempt status. Again, that is Jean's position. The only cautionary
that t would make is that issues like that are resolved in tax court so even
though Jean can present that position, we are not assured until the issue goes
through a tax court whether her position would be sustained or not. I would
also make the position that Eckankar would fight that position. I'm not sure
that that's the case either.
Linda KulLman: I'm sure it would be. Right? I mean let's just say how it is.
38
City Council Meeting - April l~j 1989
Councilman Johnson: The option of purchasing this land by the City would also
make it tax exempt forever.
Linda Kullman: Right. However, there would be facilities on that land that
would benefit the con~nunity and I think that's what we're basically talking
about.
Councilman Johnson: 9 to 15 million dollars worth of benefit? We have to
decide that too.
Linda Kullman: Right, but I think as a member of this con~nunity I would ask you
to allow us to have as many options available as possible. Not only right now
but down the road.
Wayne Skoblik: My name is Wayne Skoblik from 701 Bighorn Drive. Now I've
watched all you guys up here and Bill's come to my house when he was looking for
a vote and said vote for me. Mr. Johnson, I read some of your editorials you
know and even on the building issues, when people come up here, do you always
give your permits and then find out your facts after that on what they're going
to do? I mean a hazardous waste issue, why don't you get a list of hazardous
materials that they'll be using on site instead of asking them now so he can
present it?
Councilman Johnson: The hazardous waste issue was brought up at Planning
Con~nission and they said there were no hazardous wastes but I never believe that
so I always ask the question again. But staff has looked into it.
Wayne Skoblik: Did they give you documentation to that? Do you see something
on it?
Councilman Johnson: Now that they've told me what their process is, I know the
process and there is very little need for hazardous waste in that process.
Wayne Skoblik: Everybody's an expert.
Councilman Johnson: I'm an environmental engineer. I work with this everyday.
Yes, I am an expert in that field.
Wayne Skoblik: Well good. I'm glad we have somebody who knows what's going on
then right? Is there a law against how much tax exempt land can be acquired in
Chanhassen?
Councilman Johnson: Not yet.
Councilman Workman: In talking to the Assistant Assessor, basically the process
is, they're not going to get tax exempt until the church is built at which time
they file this application and it's look at. It's very liberal and very much in
the favor of a church to get the tax exempt status in that just about any use...
Wayne Skoblik: And you knew that before? You knew all this was going to be
tax exempt when you okayed the site plan and all that stuff?
Councilman Workman: No site plan has been...
39
Council Meeting - April 10, 1989
Wayne Skoblik: Well whatever you okayed.
Councilman Workman: We haven't okayed anything yet.
Wayne Skoblik: So it's still up for grabs then? You're going to let these guys
intimidate you. Good luck.
Bob Hanson: Good evening. My n~ne is Bob Hanson. I live at 6620 Horseshoe
Curve. It wasn't my intention to say anything and in fact most of the things
that I've been interested in, somebody else has mentioned. Aside from one fact
and that is, I have never seen anybody come before a City Council before so
prepared to be turned down and that brings question to me. Why would you be so
prepared to be_ turned down if there wasn't something wrong with what you're
trying to do? The other observation, one last observation and that is, I have
never seen such a turnout for a Council meeting before. Apparently we've got a
lot of people here that are fairly concerned about this issue. I think it would
behoove all you people on the Council to take heed to that and try and put this
through as a referendum so that the people can be heard. Thank you.
Patsy Ward: Honorable Mayor, members of the Council and citizens of
Chanhassen. We had a chance to have a co~nunity center a little while ago. We
had a referendum. It was defeated because we didn't like the location. ~ love
this location. Let's go for it.
Jan Lash: My n~ne is Jan Lash. I live at 685g Utica Lane. I guess my main
concern with this property is the land use. People have talked about the
concerns for the school and I know that the school district has talked of a
middle school as near as 1995 which is 5 1/2 years away. ~ge have a task force
that's been looking at this site as a possible site for a community center and
so, I think with these a~ount of people looking at this property, to benefit the
City, that it's time for the City to look to the future to address these needs
and I'm afraid if we wait until 1995 to start looking for a site for a school,
we aren't going to find a prime location that would be adjacent to town.
Adjacent to the elementary school. If we're looking at a middle school by 1995,
you're looking at a high school probably 3 years after that. As much as people
hate the thought of raising their taxes and they hate the thought of having to
pay for schools, the thing is we're all going to have to bite the bullet and do
it anyway so why not get the best piece of property we can if the City is
capable of doing it. This would then serve the needs of all the community.
Thank you.
CounciLman Johnson: Mr. Mayor, before we have too many more people leave, I'd
like to ask for some hand votes here. Or not votes but show of hands of how
many people here would support buying the southerly third of this property for a
middle school and con~nunity center? Southerly third.
Public: How about the ~/nole thing?
Councilman Johnson: The whole thing's not for sale.
Public: Either is the southerly third.
Councilman Johnson: Not many people want to pay their taxes to buy a school
site.
40
City Council Meeting - April 1~ 1989
William Olson: How many people know exactly what land is available until
they've got their hand in your heart until they get the decision of yes, they
get the church. Then they'll start divying up. I might give you this property
and I might give you this. I haven't heard any type of working relationship at
all...
Leneda Rahe: My name is Leneda Rahe again. I live at 1021 Carver Beach Road
and I know that we need also to have a housing for senior citizens. A senior
citizen center would also, we need to have housing for the senior citizens in
this con~nunity which we don't have. That would also be another prime site
becaues of the adjacent to the lakeshore and close proximity to the shopping
malls and to the medical centers.
Monty Eastvold: My name is Monty Eastvold and I reside at 7051 Pinacle Lane.
I just had a question regarding the actual conditional use permit and maybe a
clarification on that. Is that an annual permit and if so, it's not? Okay.
So is there any tJ~ne when if some of the conditions are not adhered to that it's
reviewed and amended or whatever?
Mayor Chmiel: At sometime when the conditional use has been provided to that
respected individual, they have to comply with all the requirements that you
have contained within that conditional use. If they so desire to expand beyond
that conditional use, a hearing is held again to review that particular
proposal.
Councilman Johnson: To further address and I think you missed part of the
point. We do not have a set schedule at this time, even though I've proposed
one, for conditional use permits for an inspector to go out and look at those
conditional uses. We have literally hundreds of conditional use permits in our
city right now. Last year I proposed and hopefully staff is still working on my
proposal, of making a schedule by which we will review conditional uses. If
somebody is not in compliance with the conditional use permit, we can go and
pull the conditional use permit. Right now that's at any time. We have
challenged some users of conditional use permits to come in to us and prove that
they are still in compliance with it. Unfortunately my position is, our
enforcement of that is not stringent enough as of yet.
Mayor Chmiel: Any further comments? If not, I would suggest that we close this
portion of it and very possibly to continue this hearing, probably to our next
council meeting. The reason I say that is that there are many facts that have
come before us. A lot of the proposals as we had sent out to the residents are
still not in so therefore I would move to table this discussion to our date of
April the 24th. I would like to make that into a moth_on at this particular
time.
Councilman Boyt: I object. I think you've got 500 people here, 200 people who
want to know how you stand and I think it's a big mistake to table this before
the Council has responded to what they've heard tonight.
Councilman Johnson: I agree.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. With that position Bill, why don't you go ahead and start.
41
City Council Meeting - April lg, 1989
Councilman Boyt: I guess I deserve that. First, it is impressive to see the
number of people that have turned up and I'm glad that that many people are
interested in an issue in front of the City. I'd like to say to the concerned
citizens that you've certainly put in a lot of time and energy arr]a great deal
of money I would guess. There have been other issues when we've had quite a few
citizens in recently. The rerouting of TH lgl would be one of them. The Lake
Lucy trail issue is another one but this certainly is the biggest turnout I've
seen in 2 1/2 years. I guess I have a question and a concern. Do we have any
of the, I guess you don't have to show your hands but f.t's sort of a rhetorical
question. Where is the clergy of the community? I hope that they've discussed
this issue where it really needs to be discussed which is in their churches and
I've only in the course of the month and a half or so that this issue has been
sort of a hot one in the co.~.~nunity, I've only had one member of the local clergy
talk to me about it or write to me about it. I've got to tell you that I'm
disappointed about that. I think it's awfully important for them, since this
impacts on them, to take a stand. Then I guess I have a note for the attorneys
representing Eckankar. You've certainly presented the facts well. I think
you've addressed the concerns of the staff and Planning Commission and you've
made it real clear through your mailings to us and to staff that you consider
that there's very few options here for the City. But I think you've missed the
point in that you may well win the legal battle to build while losing the war
for acceptance. I guess I respect a lot of the people out here tonight who've
challenged your proposal. I think both you and the City have attempted to
gather the facts to answer many of the concerns, if not all of the concerns.
The staff report pointed out any hum%bet of things that have been cleared up
I think or at least addressed since the Planning Commission meeting. The
newspaper has made, both newspapers that cover this city rather extensively have
interviewed Eckankar people. Have interviewed many of the people in the
concerned citizens. Have interviewed those of us on the Council. I think
they've made every effort to get the issue out to you. I think Jay's letter to
the Editor that appeared in the Villager this last week demonstrated that he and
staff have certainly done a great deal of research. 7~wo weeks ago the Council
moved to put out a piece of information to you and ask for your response about a
referendum. I see several of you that have yes signs. I'm not exactly sure
what that means but I'll take it to mean that maybe you' re in support of that
effort. But we all need to know that the referendu%~ to buy this property does
not remove Eckankar from our community and it shouldn't be seen that way. It
simply gives them 5 million or 7 million or ~natever to go across the road and
buy more property and do it again. What I would say to the attorneys and
concerned citizens is that the process %~e go through takes some time. I got
your lightly veiled threat that you better not miss any of the building season
but I would suggest to you that there's more to this than simply getting your
building in the ground. I believe that as the facts come to light, the decision
about your proposal will become much easier to make. We've already received a
lot of facts. I'm more concerned about the climate of fear that's been
generated in our co~nunity. Over the last month I've received several letters,
most of them against the proposal. Sa~e for the proposal. And I will admit to
having wondered myself how this was going to resolve itself. But I received a
letter this last week that for me identified what's become the important issue.
That important issue came from a person who has appeared in front of the Council
over the last year I'd say 4 or 5 times maybe_ representing his neighbors on
issues in front of the Council. I think that if you knew who he was, many of
you would say that that's a person you hold in fairly high respect. I've not
always agreed with this individual and he wrote to tell me that he feared for
42
City Council Meeting - April 10~ 1989
his children and his wife and you know he wasn't afraid of Eckankar. He was
afraid of us. He thought that if people in this con~nunity knew that he was a
member of Eckankar, that his family wouldn't be safe. I would say that that's a
desparate situation whichever side of the coin you're on. For me, it's that
climate that needs to be diffused or our loss will be much greater than whether
or not this church comes into our town. I've always assumed that Eckankar could
make a strong legal case for building this church. Part of being on the Council
I guess is being willing to take a clear position on the issues and I may not be
here when the vote takes place so from what I know right now, I'd like to tell
you what my position is. First thing. I think that all citizens concerned
should be researched. I've sometimes fought the City spending the money to
research some of th~n that I thought would come to naught but I nevertheless
agree that the City is right in answering your questions and those should be
answered. The secor~ thing is that I believe the City is responsible to protect
our safety and the well being to it's best ability. The third thing is I
believe that we should treat this church like we treat any other church, as the
gentleman earlier today said and I guess the thing that I've learned out of the
last 6 weeks J.s I'm amazed at how fragile our basic rights are. Your rights to
know. To pursue. To debate. Someone elses rights for religious freedom
possibly. I think we have to answer the question would we be here if this was a
Catholic, Lutheran, a Mormon, a Muslim and so on down through the list? I don't
know. I can't answer that question for anybody but I can say that religious
freedom has never been the issue for me. The key issue has been can we find the
best use for the land. I think we're going to find out what people think about
that when they return the survey that the City has sent out. That survey by the
way means that you'd be spending $8,000.00 of our tax money to conduct a
referendum so don't take it lightly when you respond to it. But maybe that's
what we should do with the issue. I think that the second key issue is how do
we eliminate the climate of fear that I certainly heard when I attended the
Planning Con~nission meeting. I didn't hear quite so much of it tonight. Maybe
as this evolves, if the City is given some time, we can resolve that particular
issue. I think that we need to take that time and we need to have patience on
all sides and we need to work to get this resolved the best way we can. That's
all I've got. I've got some conxnents I'd like to make about conditions. I
would suggest that the conditions recon~uended by staff and Planning Con~nission
be amended and I have 3 additional conditions. The first one, I think that
traffic control should be in place for any meetings of more than 200 people or
at least that Eckankar should agree to install traffic control if and when
public safety would determine it necessary. Second, you're going to have a
great deal of land that you're going to be grading and then replanting as I
understand it. If I have that correct. I would encourage you to replant with
native prairie flowers and grasses. It's about time we had some native prairie
around here. The next condition I would add is, if you'll note, one of your
consultants John Shardlow, are you here? Okay John, on page 5 of your report
and item 9, you state an interesting situation that I think the City should
pursue and maybe you're indicating by your report being part of Eckankar's
package, that the church generally agrees with this. It says through the
conditional use permit process provides the City with a mechanism to require the
full payment of any costs reasonably associated with providing services to the
proposed church facility. I'm not exactly sure what that means but it may mean
that you're willing to pay the tax burden that you incur to the City.
Interesting proposal. I'd certainly like to see that discussed further before
this is resolved. Thank you Mr.. Mayor for the opportunity to speak to this
issue.
43
C~.ty Council Meeting - April 10, 1989
Councilwoman Dimler: Thank you Mayor Cb~niel: I want to thank the lawyers of
Eckankar for their well thought out a~d complete presentation. I want to thank
the citizens of Chanhassen for taking time out of their busy schedules to show
their concerns here tonight. And th~nk you for all the hard work that went into
your information for the Council that you did prior to tonight's meeting. I
guess my first concern was that the use of this worship center be only for the
larger metropolitan area and that no rallies, international or national
confernces be conducted here. But in Peter Beck's presentation, that was well
addressed and he indicated that this condit~.on in writing would not be a problem
for Eckankar. Since he reiterated it several times, I ter~] to believe him so
that is no longer a concern for me. Secondly, t see a real need to work on an
ordinance restricting the numbers of acres that any tax exempt entity may
occupy. I think 174 acres of tax exempt land is way too excessive. Just to
compare the other churches in the area. In Chanhassen they l%ave between 3 to lg
acres of tax exempt land. Now we've talked about purchasing some of this
property from Eckankar for a con~nunity center, for schools and other public
purposes. Well I'd like to note that I'm on the cormauni'ty center task force and
that our request to purchase some land from Eckankar was made prior to this
application for this conditional use permit. I don't know what happened in the
negotiations but we repeatedly asked city staff to get us a price after we were
bold that Eckankar would be willing to sell us some acres. We were never given
a price per acre to my knowledge. But now we are told that further discussions
can not be held until the conditional use pem~it has been granted. My question
is why. AgaJ. n, Peter Beck stated that he wanted to narrow our considerations.
I feel a little like I'm between a rock and a hard place. I'd like to have more
options. I don't believe it would cloud the issue. I think it would clarify
ih. And what to do with the balance of the land is a concern for many of us
here and I think in fairness, maybe Eckankar should focus on their future
desires for the land in the spirit of open communication and putting citizen's
concerns at rest. It would seem to me that the fair and good faith negotiations
at this time might be beneficial to all concerned parties. I've received
letters from residents who feel deeply about the excessive tax exempt land issue
and encourage the Council to consider how to limit the tax exempt land now
before the permit is issued. That's what I heard Linda Kullman to say. I don't
want to treat Eckankar's conditional use permit any worse than other churches
and neither do I want to treat it any better and I think that's only fair. As
Dean Brown mentioned, just recently the Family of Christ Lutheran Church built a
worship center on 3.5 acres on Lake Drive East. In talking to some of their
other members, they went through a long process of jumping through hoops and
members of the church made up the building committee and appeared two times
before the Planning Con~nission and at least once before the Council. Pastor
Nate Castens also appeared and it was my hope that Peter Skelsky would be here
this evening. Is Peter here? W~nen Tom and I met with Peter Skelsky and Peter
Beck last week, we expressed our concern that the fear of the unknown breeds
suspicion and that his presence might help to disspell some fears. I think the
fear of the unknown is a human condition that we all understand and I'm not sure
that we can blame anybody for it. In my opinion, all sides have reacted in
fear. Comments made at the Planning Corgnission meeting on March 1st may have
stenmed out of fear of the unknown and fear of public reaction may have kept
Peter Skelsky away from public meetings and this meeting here tonight. But it's
my belief that any change usually requires the involvement of all parties
affected by that change. It is easier to introduce the change if those
conditions are met. Surprise is usually reacted to in the negative and I hope
44
City Council Meeting - April 10~ 1989
187
that there are no surprises but if there are, I hope that they will be pleasant
ones. Lastly, I believe that the City is here to serve the best interest of the
citizens and since we just recently sent out a survey giving the citizens of
Chanhassen some input on how they would like us to proceed for the best use of
the land, and unfortunately the results of the survey are not in and have not
been tabulated. I think in the interest of fairness, we should wait for the
results and take them into consideration. Therefore, I recon~nend tabling this
request for tonight. That's all.
Councilman Johnson: I too would like to thank everybody for coming tonight. I
think most people, a lot of people have read my letter to the editor and
probably think where I'm coming from. When you get sworn into this office, I
believe you're sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States. When I
was sworn in as an officer in the United States Army, I'm sworn to uphold the
Constitution of the United States and any threats from within or without. I
believe that unfortunately this issue of land use permit, conditional use permit
has gotten messed up in our First Amendment. I never had any ideas I'd ever get
up in a Constitutional issue. Now I wish in high school I'd studied the
Constitution a little better. But just to make it easier for me to kind of go
over for those of you that didn't read my letter to the editor, go over it and
actually add a little bit to it because I cut a lot because I wanted it to get
brief, even though it was fairly long. Over the past several months some
citizens of Chanhassen have been consumed with the fear of the unknown. Rumors
and opinions have been spreading but I have yet to see any evidence of a threat
or a basis for fear. However the fear is there in the minds of our citizens and
I have reacted to this fear by performing an independent investigation of
Eckankar. Over the past two months I have researched the Eckankar religion
trying to find any evidence of deceptive recruiting, recruiting of children,
soliciting for money or any other activity which would lead me to believe that
the Eckists are a threat. I have not been able to find any. I add here that
there's been a lot of talk about children and a threat to children. Everybody
I've talked to, I've asked them about children. I have found nothing to
indicate that the Eckists are out trying to recruit our children into their
religion. As a matter of fact, most of their recruiting is very, very low key.
Some of the things I've done. I've gone to the Minneapolis and Southdale
libraries and our own library here and researched all the books I could find
which referenced Eckankar and there have been some of these that have been very
right wing or very fundamentalists point of view in which Judo and Karate were
considered cults. In which Jehovah Witness and Mormons and everybody considered
cults. I look at the entire book, not just one section of it. I contacted a
company here in Minnesota which J.s called Free Minds Incorporate. They are a
cult watch group. They are formed by parents of children that have been
involved in cults and they have been deprogrammed. Free Minds had some
information on Eckankar. However, they had only had inquiries. They had never
had anybody come in and say they had a problem with Eckankar. So they were able
to pull some information. They gave me some quotes out of Larson's Book on
Cults. Larson's is one of the group that considers Judo a cult. They also gave
me the article from, parts of the article that somebody read up here from the
Religious Conterfeits Group published in the early 80's I believe. After that I
also went and asked my pastors at Mount Calvary Lutheran Church if they would
look into this for me and they did some inquiries and they have found nothing.
Now it's a standing joke with them. They ask me when I'm joining Eck every time
I see them. I invited them to go with me to an Eck meeting and they couldn't
go. I talked to some of our local clergy here and asked them what they thought
45
Council Meeting - April lg, 1989
of Eckankar. Really I primarily went with the Lutheran because Ruthenbeck's
across the street and I know Nate and then my Lutheran pastors. I tried to get
a hold of the pastors at the Catholic Church here, St. Hubert's and couldn't get
a hold of anybody. But to amend, the Lutheran preachers here were standing up
for the Constitution and religious freedom and they did not fear. That was one
that they said to me. I have no fear of F~kankar themselves, even though they
have children. Some of them very young. New borns and the like. I went and
talked with our Public Safety Department extensively and they contacted the
Minneapolis Police Cult Unit and the local Federal Burearu of Investigation. I
contacted the New Hope police. They contacted the Villa Park, Illinois police
for me ~nd the Clayton, Missouri police. Clayton, Missouri is a suburb of
St. Louis and Villa Park is a suburb of Chicago. West and south of O'Hara.
None of these public safety units could give us any information that would
indicate that there's a threat. The Villa Park Chief of Police didn't even know
they existed. When I went to Villa Park to look at the center there I found the
police department was only a few blocks away fr~m the Eck center. The Eck
center is on their main street with a sign out in front saying Eckankar. The
Villa Park Chief of Police didn't even know they existed. ~fnen I went to Villa
Park, I stopped in at their next door neighbors. They're in a cor~nercial
building. Their next door neighbor is a financial planner. When I went in
there they were doing IRS lg4g forms right and left and they were kind enough to
give me about lg minutes of their time to discuss what they knew about Eckankar
who was next door, there's just a plaster wall inbetween them. They had two
ladies there I would say in their mid 4g's to early 5g's that had gone and
attended one of the Eckankar meetings. They said, that's strange. They said
they have some odd beliefs. I says, well did they try to recruit you? They
say, no. They just gave us information. I said, did they try to solicit funds
from you? They said no, they didn't try to get any funds from me. I said, have
they ever come over later and tried to get funds from you? They said no. They
said they've been a very good neighbor. We rarely ever see them. The people we
met at the center were very pleasant and seemed well educated. That's the
basic comnent they had. By the Villa Park facility there's a Lutheran church a
block to the east and a Free Evangelical Bible Church, the Harbor Avenue Bible
Church a block to the west. The Lutheran church was having what appeared to be
an AA meeting at it but no church functions the night I was there so I didn't go
in and talk to anybody there. I went into the Bible Church and as they were
having their Wednesday night Bible meeting. I went up to the pastor of the
church and ask~ him what do you know about Eckankar. He said who? I says well
there a religious organization a block away from you. He said I've never heard
of ti]em. So then I talked to some of their parishioners and I found, I guess
I don't know if a free bible church has parishioners but anyway, some of their
members and I found one menfoer ~no knew of Eckankar. He had met some Eckists at
a County Fair. He ar~ his wife said, yes, they've got some strange beliefs. In
their opinion their beliefs were strange. So I went through the same questions.
Were there children involved? Did they try to recruit you? Did they try to
solicit funds from you? All the questions and it was all no. No, they're nice.
The people they met seemed very well educated. Public Safety got a hold of the
Clayton, Missouri ~nich is a suburb of St. Louis police. The Chief of Police
there said that they've operated a center there since 1975 and they have had no
reason to investigate them. The final actual thing that I did was attend one of
their services. It's nothing I'd be interested, I'd guarantee you that. But
there were about 4~ people there. A nice friendly group of people. It was a
little different than a Lutheran or a Church of God or a Baptist or whatever
cerc%mony. They started with a reading from their Bible. The reading that day
46
City Council Meeting - AprJ_l 1~ 1989
was about ego and the evils of ego. You're having too much ego, put your ego
behind you. Listen to that lawyers. Every meeting I've got to give a threat to
the lawyers. ~nen they went in and they sang the hue song which is a form of a
chant where they meditate. Then after that they read some more from their
Bible. Again, some additional verses on the ego. 5hat seemed to be the thing
of the day was ego. Then they opened it up for discussion amongst the people.
They held a discussion about what their spiritual feelings where for that week.
I don't see a threat from that. I didn't see anything there. Then afterwards
everybody got up and left and somebody asked me what my little lapel pin was and
I said it's for Chanhassen and then I introduced myself at that point. Talked
to a doctor who was there and there were some other professional folks there. I
didn't get what their professions were and talked to some of the members of the
church that actually work up in New Hope. I found them to be friendly people.
They didn't know who I was c~ming in. It wasn't planned. I didn't tell anybody
I was coming. I brought a neighbor with me. I guess there's always, I didn't
want to be alone actually. There's always fear. Fear of the unknown you know
and I admit it too. What did I find out about them? I found out they are
considered a new age religion. They're fairly new. About 25 years old.
They're based on a lot of different tradition including Hindu. There seems to
be a lot of various sects of Hindu. I've learned more about religion and the
non-Christian religions in the last two months than I ever did. It was really
interesting on a lot of them. They believe everybody has a soul and that soul
is a part of god. Now here's where they get a little beyond me but they believe
the soul can travel outside the body into a spiritual realm and they believe in
reincarnation so the soul is always there. I don't see how that's a threat to
me. That sc~ebody believes that their soul, it's not my soul they're talking
about. It's theirs. That doesn't seem to be a threat to me. Eckankar teaches
that you have to overc~me the 5 passions. Lust, anger, greed, attachment and
vanity and then you can experience wisdom, charity and spiritual freedom.
Overcoming lust, anger, greed, attachment and vanity. We should be scared of
that. And they want to have charity and spiritual freedom. I really can't find
anything. They're non-evangelical. While there has been some early references
from another Hindu type religion that blamed plagerism against Paul Twitchell
and they took Paul Twitchell's teachings and one of the main references used by
everybody against Eckankar is a paper written by another Hindu group, another
new age religion who was fighting for membership from the same prospects.
I think that's kind of funny at times that you get two non-Christian groups
fighting and then the groups that want to fight them grab their literature and
use that as their evidence. If the other group were coming in here, we'd have
the same people in here so I don't know. Do they go door to door and airports?
No. I have no evidence of them going door to door or running around airports or
shopping malls or schools. They advertise in publications. They make their
literature available. If you want to find them, you can find them. I have now
met Eckists who live in this town. I don't know a lot of them by n~me. At the
service I went to I did recognize two people that have participated in youth
sports here in the City of Chanhassen. I've seen them. I participate a lot. A
lot of you all know me from youth sports more than City Council because I worked
in T-ball, baseball, soccer. Mostly soccer now and I recognized some of the
faces. I didn't know the name. I go through hundreds and hundreds of names
every year organizing sports. So I do know there are Eckists living in our
town. They have the same rights as anybody else. Should we buy the Eckankar
property? This little green thing that we sent out I fought against. It is a
very unscientific survey. We may want to use it but I'm not sure if it's going
to tell us much. The referendum would tell us that this type of survey, it's
47
City Council Meeting - April lq, 1989
not as bad as the other survey that went out that only gave you the choice of
yes. At least we give you two choices. Yes or no. But we don't give you
adequate information to make up your mind on this and full mailing is not a
scientific survey. I'm an engineer. I believe in doing things scientifically
with when the results come back, we can defend them. A lot of people will see
this and not bother. Another thing from the City and throw it away. Another
group of people are going to be looking for it. I don't know what's going to
happen. But I don't put a lot of faith in this survey. I asked if people would
be willing to buy one-third of it and only a few people wanted to buy one-third
of it. They want it buy it all or nothing. All or nothing. Why? If we need a
school site, we don't need 174 acres. The area up by Greenwood Shores is not a
good school site. That's a good residential site. The area down by TH 5 is a
fairly good school site. I don't think we need 174 acres. I'm going to get off
onto should we limit tax exempt land? If the University of Minnesota c~e in
here wanted to have 20g acres for a research facility that's going to being
1,~0 jobs to town, we're going to say no? Because tax exempt facilities can
only have 5 acres in this town. Are we going to tell the Landscape Arboretum,
one of the most beautiful things we have in this city, that they have too much
land. No. I think before we start saying no tax ex~pt land or limit tax
exempt land, we'd better find out what the full impact on all the different
possible tax exempt lands are because another tax ex~npt land is city parks.
We're trying to buy 35 or 50 or lgg acres down south right now of tax exempt
land that we want to take off of the tax rolls and make it into a park so the
people in southern Chanhassen. There's a purpose for tax exempt land. Do I
think, t've said I will bet the Mayor's next month salary that eventually some
of this land will go back to tax status. Or Don's salary maybe. The City
Manager's. It's a better bet I guess. My wife won't let me bet my own. But I
truly believe that we should not take this land and convert it. I think that
the courts won't uphold it. I think we' re going to be ridiculed in the press.
We're goirk~ to be ridiculed by other parts of the town and maybe the country and
maybe in Poland. My time's up. I think all the yes people would like me to get
out of here. Okay. Basically I'd like on condition 1 to get specific. Can
your computers generate a computer image at night to show the lights? Mr.
Computers? I challenge your computer programmers to give us those slides
showing how it's going to be, when you decide gnat the lighting's going to be,
how it's going to be lit up. Are we going to have a shining edifice on the
hillside, ~Pnich is ~nat we don't want to have.
Peter Beck's answer could not be heard on the tape.
CounciLe. an Johnson: I see all the engineers over here going like this with
their eyes as the lawyer talks again. Because I think that's part of, yes,
winter view also. The person ~no mentioned winter view.
Mayor Ckmiel: Is that it Jay?
CounciLman Johnson: That's about where I stand. I have not seen anything yet
to tell me that they don't meet the conditions of the conditional use permit or
that the results of this survey are going to change ~nether we're going to issue
the permit or not. I don't see a whole lot of reason for tabling.
Councilman Word-nan: I am a quicker speaker. I have a few questions and Jay hJ.t
on the concerns of the unknown. The unknown is a frightening thing. I reached
into my refrigerator hhe other day. But seriously, ~ny do we fear Eckankar?
48
City Council Meeting - April 10~ 1989
19I
Because we are not sure quite frankly what they are. Citizens of this con~nunity
have I believe reasons to be concerned. Eckankar is sun unknown religion let
alone a cult which evokes strong emotion. Eckankar is aware of that. A couple
years back I read the book Miracle at Philadelphia on the day to day process at
the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia over 200 years ago. I knew there
was a reason why I did that. Bigger minds and bigger people dealt with this
issue better than I will and I have 200 years of history to fall back on. The
power of the mind is a very strong force. Eckankar's very existence gives proof
that they understand this. Likewise m~ny in the room this evening have
dedicated their lives to their own beliefs. Eckankar is not surprised.
Currently wars are being fought around the world over religious reasons.
Eckankar and their legal counsel are not surprised by Chanhassen's citizens
tonight. While everyone here tonight understands the First Amendment, I doubt
anyone here is exercising the Second Amenclment. Are there any guns in the room?
Eckankar has amassed large sums of money in what I would term a relatively short
period of time. To pay for expensive representation, an incredible church
facility, multi-million dollar land acquisition. It's come to my attention that
as a tax exempt organization we have the right to request financial State
records of the church. It is my understanding that they've denied twice. A
rather unassuming site was not selected in our city but rather a monument which
represents everything that is good in our con~nunity. Rolling hills, trees and
lakes. Both here tonight and at the Planning Conmission has strong
representation including principles of a large law firm and experts too numerous
to count but no representation from their church. I'm disappointed. While
local churches operate on tight budgets in an effort to fund soup kitchens and
programs for Minnesota's needy, no one from Eckankar is here tonight to tell us
how they will help our con~nunity. Rather than simply take up space and attempt
to fade away in our minds, while enjoying tax exempt status on this prime piece
of property, I would have preferred their conlnents. We are not like
Californians from where this church came or people from India from where this
religion began. This is Lake Wobegon and we have a pretty good idea what a
horse looks like. It doesn't look like a zebra. Likewise we know what a church
looks like. We're not sure that's what this church is going to do for our
con~nunity. Eckankar is not surprised. Eckankar is asking an awful lot of this
comnunity tonight. Eckankar knows this and this is a tense situation for all
concerned. I am concerned nonetheless about the unknown future use of this site
considering it's large size and choice location. As I've said to both Peter
Skelsky, the Priest and Peter Beck, his legal counsel, they have the property.
Lucky for them. They're very lucky. It's a beautiful site. I would prefer not
to see any denomination church in this location using such a large parcel. On
the other hand, I do not feel members of Eckankar will harm us and I pray we do
not harm them. This is a special site in our coranunity, made even more special
by this issue. I knew very little about Eckankar when I ran for office last
fall but win, lose or draw I accept the challenge as does the entire Council I'm
sure. I do need further information regarding the benefits of this project to
our con~nunity so that I may make a sound and wise judgment on this subject. I
would approve tabling this item until the next council meeting.
Mayor Chmiel: I guess that leaves me and I don't know if there's too much that
I can say that's already been said basically by the Council. I'd just like to
reiterate some of the things that did get touched on. The ones that Tom just
mentioned. I think we have to be concerned as a city and we have to look at
that aspect of the City. Not against the religion part of it but the land
development that we see. Taking that amount of land out of the tax base or if
49
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1989
we decide to go to the other options of the schools, community center and the
addition to the ballfields. I guess I've looked at different things as to
seeing what we would derive from taxes off that existing property and it's
really sort of astronomical. Somewhere up in the neighborhood of probably about
$779,000.g0 per year and that's quite a bit to take out of the community. I
also feel that s~ne of the issues that we've discussed have not really been
addressed and most of those were already mentioned. I happened to go through
some of the past information when Eckankar had requested to come in as a campus.
At that time I was just wondering, the position has taken a much different turn
from what it was before a~d it was indicated at that time by one of the Eckankar
members and stated that Eckankar would be willing to pay local property taxes.
Now that has changed. I did some research on this as well. I've talked to
several churches within the area. Specifically to the 2g people who will be
working at this church. In congregations of 1,5gg, they don't have much more
than 13 people. Congregations of 800 have 8 people. I guess I don't understand
the need for 20 people for 800 people or the 40g as what was indicated. There
are some concerns there. So rather than to continue and keep reiteratin9 some
of the things that has been said, as I made the motion previously, I would like
to see this tabled for the next two weeks and I'll call a question on that.
Councilwoman Dimler: Second.
Mayor Chmiel moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to table action on the
Conditional Use Permit for the construction of a church, Eckankar Church, until
the next regular City Council meeting. All voted in favor except Councilman
Johnson who opposed and the motion carried.
REBATE OF INTEREST PAYMENT REQUEST, 1811 LAKE LUCY LANE, MARK RIDDERSON.
Don Ashworth: May I ask, is Mr. Ridderson present?
Councilman Boyt: I would move denial.
Councilman Johnson: I'll second that.
Don Ashworth: May I make a point and that is, I did make sure that a copy of
this was sent to him. Since we did not get our Thursday usual, it did not get
mailed until Friday. _And I also talked to him on the phone to explain that it
would be this evening that it would be heard. But if for whatever reason he
feels that he would like to be in front of you, I could bring the item back in
two weeks?
Mayor Chmiel: Alright. Do you want to clarify that motion Bill or rescind it
to incorporate the_ fact that if he does want to have it within 2 weeks we can do
i t?
CounciLman Boyt moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to deny the request for
rebate of interest payment in the ~nount of $402.95. If the applicant wishes to
appear before the City Counc_~.l, he may do so at the next regular meeting. All
voted in favor and the motion carried.
50
C~.ty Council Meeting - April 10, 1989
APPROVE PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS AND AUTHORIZE ADVERTISING FOR BIDS FOR TH 101
REALIGNMENT/LAKE DRIVE IMPROVEMENT PROJECT NO. 88-22.
Resolution #89-57: Councilman Boyt moved, Councilman Workman seconded to
approve plans and specifications and authorize advertising for bids for TH 101
realignment/Lake Drive Improvement Project No. 88-22. All voted in favor and
the motion carried.
WEST 78TH STREET DETACHMENT PROJECT NO. 87-2:
A. APPROVE PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS AND AUTHORIZE ADVERTISING FOR BIDS.
B. APPROVE JOINT POWERS AGREEMENT WITH CARVER COUNTY FOR CR 17 IMPROVEMENTS.
Gary Warren: One clarification Mr. Mayor. The actual item is recon~nending that
Council table any action until the 24th meeting. It was just to convey the
information from the property owners.
Councilman Boyt moved, Councilwoman Dimler seconded to table action on the West
78th Street Detachment Project No. 87-2 until the April 24, 1989 City Council
meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
ACCEPT SEWER REHABILITATION REPORT.
Councilman Boyt moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to accept the Sewer
Rehabilitation Report. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS:
SOUTHERN MINNESOTA VETERANS HOME COALITION, MAYOR CHMIEL.
Mayor Chmiel: Basically we received a letter from the Southern Minnesota
Veterans Home Coalition basically requesting that this be located within the
city of St. Peter. The purpose for this is to cover respectively those who need
medical attention. The close proximity of this is within that area. This ~s
going to have a 60 bed facility and the important issue is the service to
southern Minnesota veterans of four recon~nended sites with St. Peter as best
able to do this. One in 50,000 veterans in our 27 county area which is 50%,
live within a 50 mile radius of St. Peter. The facility would be h~ghly
accessible to veterans and their families from within that area. They're asking
us therefore to provide a resolution supporting the efforts of southern
Minnesota Veterans Home Coalition to establish a Minnesota Veterans Home in
St. Peter. We have the resolution here. Rather than reading ].t, I hope everyone
has had the opportunity to read it. Do I have a motion on it?
Councilman Johnson: Yes, I'll have a motion as soon as I make a quick comment.
We've got the story on 1 out of 4 cities that's looking for this. I don't want
to start voting on a resolution to support St. Peter until Worthington and the
other 3 conxnunities that are competing for this have provided us information to
find out whether St. Peter is the best choice. Obviously if they wrote to us
and gave us all this information, they believe they're the best choice but I'd
51
Council Meeting - April lg, 1989
like to not perform a resolution on the opinion of one. I'd like to table this
and have staff write a letter to the other. 3 cities asking for their, literature
and their reasons that they think they are the best site. At that point we can
make a decision as to which site we need to support for our veterans.
Councilman Boyt: I'd move denial. A~.e you going to second that?
Councilman Johnson: I was just going to move to table.
CounciLman Boyt: No, I don't think we can even do this. I don't think ]~t's our
purview to do this.
CounciLman Johnson: Yesf I'm not even sure why we're ].nvolved other than
voicing for our veterans here in the City of Chanhassen.
Mayor Chmiel: We're talking about the southern portion of the state which is in
close proximity to the city too that 'they have in here.
Councilman Johnson: I think this one is supposed to cover all Carver County?
Mayor Ct~niel: Yes.
Counc].lman Johnson: So I think we should review it.
Mayor. Cbmeil: I think we should review it too and I agree with your position
Jay. I would suggest that we do ask staff to address the other areas to see
their basics of concern and take it fram there before we move on the issue.
Councilman Johnson: I personally think that it will probably end up. St. Peter
is as close to us as anything and for our_ seniors that are veterans, it would be
the best thing probably.
Councilman Johnson move], Councilman Boyt seconded to table act]on on the
Southern Minnesota Veterans Hame Coalition until staff can check out the other
three cities concerned. Ail voted in favor and the motion carr].ed.
Councilman Johnson: This is the draft of the Environmental Impact Statement.
These are some of the attachments to ].t. We're finally to this stage after a
year and a half of work on this puppy. I just got this in the mail. I'm
supposed to have it reviewed by Thursday for our meeting Thursday but I'm sure
Steve's got it totally reviewed for us. But anyway, we're going along on the TH
212. A lot of .]nfor_mat].on. A lot of research. It's looking pretty good.
Councilman Boyt: Have we decided on which route? Weren't we doing that on both
routes? North and south?
Councilman Johnson: Yes. The environmental impact statement will be covering
both routes. I haven't read this one yet. I've read the supporting documents
some of which we've had since December I read on the way to Boston. It's a lot
of work that this $3g0,ggg.g0 is going towards.
Councilman Boyt: You'll see a couple hundred people in here for that one too.
52
City Council Meeting - April 10~ 1989
195
Counc~.lman Johnson: Yes. The official mapping. Do we have the official map
now?
Gary Warren: We have been given layout for TH 212 which is waiting completion
of our preliminary TH 101 realignment study so I would envision that MnDot will
be regenerating a final version of that map for us after we get back to them on
our TH 101.
Councilman Johnson: The next big issue for us on TH 212 will be the map. The
official map that show~ the construction limits and where it will be. Right now
the offJ. cial map only shows the northern alignment. It does not show the
southern alignment because that is considered the preferred aligr~ment. That's a
separate issue slightly from the Environmental Impact Statement. The
Environmental Impact Statement does the entire both alignments and all
corridors. I just wanted to show you the weight of it, bulk of it. It's about
$100,000.00 per inch.
Mayor Chmiel: The other item I wanted to discuss is the curbside pick-up.
Recycleables. As part of the curbside pick up of recycleables, the City of
Chanhassen is sponsoring a $50.00 prize drawing. The City Council will randomly
pick an address within the City and if that person participates in the curbside
recycling, they will win $50.00. The drawing will occur prior to each pick up
day. Tonight City Council will draw an address for the April 15th special
curbside pick up. This pick up will occur beginning at 7:00 a.m. and will
collect glass bottles and jars, newspapers and aluminum cans'. A biweekly
curbside pick up will begin in May. See the Chanhassen Villager and also the
Sailor for announcements of any winners. We're going to have to choose a page
number between 1 and 69 and choose a line number between 1 and 50. Ursula, give
me a page number.
Councilman Boyt: Before you do that, you better pass the motion?
Councilman Johnson: I'd like to say that I'd like to make about 6 people
ineligJ, ble for the $50.00 and those are the 6 people sitting right here.
Mayor ChmJ. el: Yes, I agree.
Councilman Boyt: How about anyone within the City?
Councilman Johnson: Should City employees be...
Don Ashworth: ThJ. s is the only time you're going to have worry about this. The
next time you're going to have cards. We'll do a drum roll. Dave will come up
and actually pull the card out so no one here will know and Dave does not l~.ve
in the City so that takes care of all of our problems.
Councilman Boyt: I think we'll get the same benefit for $25.00. Why spend
$50.00? Maybe I'm underestimating our folks.
Councilman Johnson: How about two $25.00's? Double your chances.
Councilman Boyt: How about two 25's. That might in fact increase the
possibJ, lity.
53
Council MeetJ. ng - Apr_il lg, 1989
Councilwoman Dimler: Do you know why they picked $5g.0g for one time every
month.
Steve Hanson: I believe that's what used in another community and that's where
it came from.
Mayor Chmiel: If it's in other comaunities, I think we should continue with it.
Councilwoman moved, Counci]~nan Workman seconded to approve having a $5g.g(~ prize
drawing for the curbsJ, de recycling, the address to be randomly determined by the
City Council prior to each pick up date. Ail voted in favor except Councilman
Boyt ~/no opposed and the mot]on carried.
The City Council picked page 57, line 27.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
ESTABLISH NO SMOKING POLICY, CITY HALL - CITY MAblAGER.
Don Ashworth: I'm making recommendation that we tJ.ghten up the policies
basically to have the entire lower area as no smoking. The way the report is
written is to have CounciLman Workman be the one ~Jno would be responsible if
there's any type of a problem with the two remaining smoke areas. I guess what
I'd like to do is change that slightly in that I think it should still be myself
who would actually consummate any final action but in terms of sending this out
to employees, having them feel that they can contact Tom or really any council
member for that matter, and that the item then would be acted on. In other
words, ].f you would not release to me WhO ].t is that feels aggrieved. We would
just be forced to correct the situation if we can't correct it through
negotiations, then we close down tine no smoking. But I would propose to send
this as a policy out to all employees telling them what it is we're going to do
and if in any ~ay they feel aggrieved by the smoking that would occur in the two
private office areas, that they would be encouraged to contact any council
members to basically get rid of the problem.
Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Johnson to establish the No Smoking Policy
as recommended by the City Manager. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
PROPOSAL FORMAT, CITY ATTORNEY - CITY PtAbIAGER.
Don Ashworth: I have just given this to the City Council to be aware of the
fact that the advertisement will be going into the League of Cities for the
proposals for City Attorney. You have a copy of the proposal format. The
individual firms would not be receiving the legal service questionaire. That
was something that we're doing in house just to gl, ye us an idea as to whether or
not the services are being adequately performed or not. The bidders would be
getting everything except for the very back pages. I was just making the City
Council aware of the fact that that process is starting and is going into this
next edit.ion of t/ne League of Cities.
Mayor Chmiel: We_ don't need a motion on that?
54
City Counc_il Meeting - April 10~ 1989
Don Ashworth: You've already instructed staff to do this[
Councilman Boyt: I'd like to corm~ent on this. I think noting in here that we
have a financial advisor, I would encourage the City to consider also seeking an
insurance advisor. I think we have any number of insurance policies including
the personal health insurance and we should have sc~e third party reviewing
that.
Don Ashworth: It's a good suggestion. We do have an insurance con~nittee that
is established for our liability, automotive and workmen's comp lines. We do
not have a consultant established or citizens group per se on our health
insurance areas. This is an area that I'd really like to do something on.
There's cafeteria plans out there that would really benefit our ~mployees. We
have people who are working mothers and they could make those deductions, etc..
We just simply haven't found the time to be able to go out and get somebody to
help us.
Mayor Chmiel: How about a citizens group?
DOn Ashworth: That's what we have in the other insurance lines and Don Stafford
and Jim Kellian. They, in consultation with myself, work to select an agent of
record. Then once you have your agent of record on, then he can go out and
bring in the specific proposals. That con~nittee can look at the proposals.
Decide which one best meets the need of the City and they, as a group, then make
the recommendation. It's a great process. The health side, I haven't been able
to put together a similiar type of package but I surely would like to do that.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, let' s do that.
Councilman Boyt: How much is this search for a City Attorney costing the City?
Don Ashworth: I'm not sure Bill. I do not believe that there's been
significant expense to date with this process. Once the proposals come in and
we start going through interviews, we may run up more hourly bills. I would
like to have the LaFever firm help me in that review process to narrow them down
to bring them down to you. $1,000.007
Councilman Boyt: Alright, you're saying $1,000.00 would probably be the maximum
you'd have to spend in this search?
Don Ashworth: I'm guessing, yes.
Councilman Boyt: I wonder, when the in house review service comes back and I
think out of this whole list there might have been one person that went down and
checked goods, maybe two people, out of all the staff that reviewed it.
Everyone else said excellent. I'm not sure that it's worth $1,000.00 to go out
and advertise for an attorney when apparently our current services are
excellent, judged by staff. So I think this has been a good exercise but I
would suggest that we stop here and save the money.
Mayor Chmiel: The balance of the Council's feelings on it.
55
CounciLman Johnson: A lot of our staff's fairly new. They've worked under one
City Attorney. Steve's worked under several. I guess you've worked under a
couple. Gary's I think pretty much the first city job he's had other than
consulting. I think our CJ. ty Attorney is excellent too but then this is the
only City Attorney I've ever been involved with. I don't think it's completely
an exercise in futility at this time. I don't think we should stop.
Councilwoman Dimler: I guess I'd like to see us go back to our original reason
for doing it. Can you refresh my memory Don?
Don Ashworth: The City Council had felt that we had not gone through a review
process for the City Attorney, in fact all of the consultant areas so you had
made a decision that you would like to take them during the course of 1989 and
hopefully as early as possible, go through a process of reviewing the various
consultant service areas. One was City Attorney, Bond Consultant and our
Auditors. And in that process to bring back proposals and this was not going to
be where we ~ould, that we were saying that we were getting rid of any of those
firms. Maybe it would be_ a good idea since it's been at least 4 to 5 years on
any of them, to go through that process again.
Councilweman Dimler: Thank you Don. I guess I would stick with that. I think
it's stJ, il a good idea to go ahead because I think it keeps them on their toes.
Mayor Chin]el: I guess I'm inclined to agree with that part of it too because I
think I was the one who sort of instigated this at the start. I would say that
my position would be to continue.
Councilman Workman: I concur.
Mayor ChmJ.el: So then I would say that we should move ahead as ~,ve have.
Councilwoman Dimler moved, CounciLman Workman seconded to adjourn the meeting.
All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 11:45
p.m..
Sub~dtted by DOn Ashworth
City Manager
Preparsd by Nann OpheJ.m
56