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1985 03 11 I I I REGULAR CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL MEETING MARCH 11, 1985 Mayor Hamilton called the meeting to order. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. Members Present Councilman Horn, Councilwoman Watson Councilman Geving Member Absent Councilwoman Swenson Staff Present Don Ashworth, Barbara Dacy, Bill Monk, Roger Knutson, APPROVAL ~ AGENDA: Mayor Hamilton moved to approve the agenda as presented with the addition of Signage and Resignation discussions. Motion was seconded by Councilman Horn. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Geving moved to approve the following Consent Agenda items: l.b. Purchase of CPT Equipment l.c. Proclamations, Mayor 1. National Volunteers of America Week 2. American Association of University Women's Week Motion was seconded by Councilwoman Watson. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. AWARD ~ BIDS: A brief discussion was held on the purchase of the 1985 Truck and Vac-All Unit, for the Utility Department. The overall feeling of the Council was that the purchase was needed to handle emergencies and for future expansion of city facilities. RESOLUTION #85-09: Mayor Hamilton moved the adoption of a resolution accepting the bid for a Utility Pump Truck from Flexible Pipe Tool Company in the amount of $41,986.00. Motion was seconded by Councilwoman Watson. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. 1985 Administrative Vehicle: This item was tabled at the February 25, 1985, meeting seeking clarification of the station wagon bids. The main question was whether it would be better to have a V-6 engine versus a 4 cylinder engine. Don Ashworth stated that the dealerships that were contacted did not show an interest for bidding on the 7-passenger van type vehicle. Roger Knutson reviewed the specifications on the bids received. His findings were that the Council would have to accept the low bid given by Thurk Brothers on the 4-cylinder station wagon - $9,225.00 or reject all the bids and advertise specifi- cally for a V-6 engine automobile. Don Ashworth stated that this process would take around 6 to 8 weeks time. Council Meeting, March 11, 1985 -2- Councilwoman Watson brought the question up as to whether our maintenance department would be able to maintain and fix a fuel-injected engine. Bill Monk replied that with some schooling there would be no problem in maintaining the vehicle after the warranty. Councilman Horn felt that a V-6 engine would be a much better vehicle and last longer. Councilman Geving moved to accept the bid from Thurk Brothers for the 1985 Celebrity Station Wagon in the amount of $9,225.00. Motion was seconded by Mayor Hamilton. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilman Geving and Councilwoman Watson. Councilman Horn opposed. Motion carried. Councilman Horn requested that the Council review specifications prior to adver- tising. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Mayor Hamilton moved to note the Planning Commission minutes of February 13, 1985. Motion was seconded by Councilman Geving. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT FOR GROUP HOMES FOR SEVEN lQ SIXTEEN PERSONS ~ ~ R-IA DISTRICT, FIRST READING: Barb Dacy: State Regulations: The statutes require that a state licensed residen- tial facility for group homes is a single family permitted use for six (6) or less persons. A residential facitlity is a facility, public or private, which for gain or otherwise regularly provides one or more persons with a 24-hour per-day substitute for care, food, lodging, training, education, supervision, habilitation, rehabilita- tion, and treatment they need for which for any reason cannot be furnished on the person's own. Residential Facilities include: state institutions under the control of the Commissioner of Public Welfare, foster homes, residential treatment centers, maternity shelters, group homes, residential programs or schools for handicapped children. Group homes, which is the subject for request tonight, are intended for residents who are generally 12 to 18 years of age with behavioral, emotional, and/or family problems that require treatment, but are not so severe as to prohibit living in an open community setting. The number of persons that reside in a group home should trigger the differentiation between a permitted use and a conditional use. Staff is recommending approval of the request, feeling that this type of a use is essentially a single family use. Although defined as a group home, the proposed use is essen- tially a single family use; in that the persons will be utilizing a single dwelling with single kitchen facilities. In the past, it has been the intent of state legislation to locate these types of facilities in a single family neighborhood. Because of community apprehension, many programs are siting these facilities in sparsely populated areas. In the R-IA district, the minimum lot size is 2; acres. Most of these parcels substantially exceed the minimum lot area. These type of facilities have to be licensed by the Minnesota Department of Human Services, The Minnesota Department of Health and local Fire, Safety and Housing codes. The maxi- mum number of persons of a group home should be specifically regulated. To mirror state statute, it is recommended that the conditional use allow up to 16 persons. At the Planning Commission Meeting, the Planning Commission recommended approval of the Ordinance Amendment subject to the following conditions: 1. Compliance with state licensing requirements. 2. Compliance with local building and fire codes. 3. Annual review local building and fire codes. 4. Compliance with Ordinance lOA, Individual Sewage Treatment Systems. 5. One and one-half mile spacing requirement. I I I I I I Council Meeting, March 11, 1985 -3- However, some of the commissioners were concerned that the Council should be aware of possible conditions that you could apply to a group home in the R-lA area. So, in response to their request, staff contacted Eden Prairie, Minneapolis, Minnetonka and St. Louis Park as they have experience in issuing group home facilities. Our research has indicated that the facility meets the zoning requirements in the district. Councilman Geving: Why does it have to be at least a number of seven (7) to qualify? Wouldn't it be possible that over a period of time with transfers in and out that the home would have less than seven (7) at some particular point? Barb Dacy: That mayor may not be possible, but because by state statute, six (6) or less is a permitted use. Roger Knutson: If they have one (1) to six (6) they can go in if you like it or not, so to speak. Councilman Horn: I do not have a problem with the concept of group homes, but I feel that it should be limited to ten individuals and not sixteen. Mayor Hamilton: however, I would conducted by the I believe 16 is acceptable if reviewed on an individual basis, like the annual review process to be more specific in that it be City Council as a Public Hearing Process. Mayor Hamilton moved the passage of the Zoning Ordinance Amendment for Group Homes for seven to sixteen persons in the R-lA District complying with the recommendations of the Planning Commission, Amendment Request 85-1: 1. Section 6.04 (Uses by Conditional Use Permit in the R-la, Agricultural Residence District) for group homes for 7-16 persons; and 2. Section 4 (Rules and Definations) to add the following: Group Home: A state licensed residential facility where persons reside for purposes of rehabilitation, treatment or special care. Such persons may be orphaned, suffer chemical or emotional impairment, or suffer social maladjustment or dependency, and the Staff's suggestions, items 1-5: 1. Compliance with state licensing requirements. 2. Compliance with local building and fire codes. 3. Annual review process, being a public hearing process. 4. Compliance with Ordinance lOA, Individual Sewage Treatment Systems. 5. One and one-half mile spacing requirement. Motion was seconded by Councilman Geving. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR ~ GROUP HOME FOR TEN PERSONS, 1350 FLYING CLOUD DRIVE, MID-AMERICA BAPTIST SOCIAL SERVICES CORPORATION: Barbara Dacy: The site is on the north side of Flying Cloud Drive, or US HWY 212 and the parcel totals approximately 30 acres. The Assumption Seminary is located on the north side of Highway 212. The proposal is for a group home for 10 boys. The sub- ject property now contains five (5) existing structures: Bldg #1: a three-story structure containing 8 bedrooms, 2 full bathrooms, 2 half-baths, and a basement. On February 8, 1985, The Public Safety Director and Building Inspector inspected the building and determined that the house was structurally safe; however, some smoke detectors, railings, and other minor items would need to be installed. Bldg: #2: this is a garage, which the roof is falling in. It is the applicant's intent to repair the building. Bldg 13: this is non-usable, as it was found that it may be structurally unsafe. Bldg #4: an old grainery, and may be used to house animals Council Meeting, March 11, 1985 -4- that the applicant intends to have on the site. Bldg 85: this building is intended for the group home staff. As you note, with the topographic conditions there is extensive vegetation along the rear of these buildings and the property slopes severely down to the ravine and approximately 1000 feet to the north there is a railroad. Traffic generated from the group home would consist of vehicles for the staff and two vehicles which are used for group home activities. The parking area is located in or on the existing buildings and the parking is well away from the highway and is well screened. The Planning Staff recommends approval of the group home application. The Planning Commission recommended approval as well, complying with the building and fire codes as regulated by Ordinance D23A. The Commission was also concerned about the safety of building 83 and they wanted make the Council aware that something should be done with it either in the long term of having it removed or that it be boarded up to prevent access from the outside. Mayor Hamilton: Is the barn on the south side of Highway 169 a part of the property. Barbara Dacy: It is, but it is not a part of the purchase. Councilwoman Watson: I feel that building 83 should either be boarded up very securely or torn down. Councilman Geving: I am interested in hearing from the surrounding neighbors. Also, are there any mentally handicapped people in the facility and what do the daily activity consist of. I Chuck Gabrielson, Administrator ~ the Carver Group Home: There are no mentally handicapped children at the home. The daily acitivities consist of going to school, coming home and participating in activities, just like any other family's activi- I ties. We do have a membership at the Eden Prairie Community Center where we try to go once a week to use the facilities. Also, at different times, the boys have jobs. Councilman Geving: How is a boy brought to the home and what is the procedure in releasing the boy from the group home? Chuck Gabrielson: We have a very individualized program. Upon their entrance, we start out with a review process to determine whether the young man is a viable can- dida~e for placement in our program. If he is determined to be a good candidate for placement, at that point we accept him in. Each of the boys have written goals in six specific areas. We talk about educational goals, vocational goals, personal indivi- dual goals, health and hygiene, and social goals. We address each of these with their placing agents. We have at least weekly contact with their placing agency. By law, we have a maximum time we can go, three months, between complete reporting process on each of these and it very seldom goes that far. We believe in over communicating rather than under communicating. Seventy-five percent of the boys end up being court orders to the group home. That is often times a method that we have of taking tighter control over them from a Probation Officer, Parole Officer or a Social Worker standpoint. It gives us extra leverage if there is a discipline problem involved. Twenty-five percent are voluntary placements, where the family has decided that they cannot control the situation, often times coming from a broken home where the mother is working two jobs and is not able to handle the child and give him the care that he needs and the child has gotten out of hand. Councilman Geving: needs to be done. This particular residency and area has a whole lot of work that Are the boys going to be helping you with these projects? Chuck Gabrielson: Yes they will be working, although it is sometimes hard to motivate boys at this age. I I I I Council Meeting, March 11, 1985 -5- The main building we wish to use for a group home. Right now most of the work that we will need is cosmetic. There are still some walls that have water damage, there is a new roof that was put on two years ago. We had a question of the septic system in which we contacted on of the original owners and he replied that each facility had it's own septic system. He said they were very good systems and that we wouldn't suffer any problems with them. The second building is the service garage and we intend to put a roof on that. We are currently looking at putting a tin roof on similar to the roof that is on the barn across the road. It has sound structure, in accordance with the Building Inspector. The third building is a big question. I do not know what the costs of demolition are. The fourth building is an old grainery and we have applied for a stable permit. We currently have two horses that were donated to the group home that are being housed at Pat Benson's Stables. We believe in animal therapy, and we currently have a kennel permit for the dogs we have. The fifth building is a three bedroom bungalow. This is for the staff to escape from the group home or for the staff to do some private counseling where the hustle and bustle of the group may not be such a good idea. We may take a resident down there for time away from the rest of the residents and talk privately. We have a very strenuous job and it's good for the staff to get away for some time also. Councilman Horn: Is building #3 totally unsalvageable? Chuck Gabrielson: The building is pretty much gutted out. The radiators, plumbing, pipe, electrical wires, woodwork, and doors were all stripped from the building from a previous caretaker. The building looks good from the outside. However, I do not know that much about buildings and I would not know how much it would take to replenish the building. For the time being I agree that the building should be securely boarded up. At this time we do not know what weare going to do with the building. Mayor Hamilton: Please tell us who Mid-America Baptist Social Service Corporation is. Chuck Gabrielson: It is a Corporation that was founded roughly 15 years ago by the Mid-America Baptist Churches. It is the American Churches of Iowa and Minnesota put together in regions. It has an outreach and ways of administering to needs that com- munities have. They started in Iowa originally with old peoples homes and homes for the retarted. They moved into this area as a combined effort to take over the old Cooper Group Home, which was in Jonathan, which became an achievement place under the American Baptist. Phillip Frasier started the group home at Hwy 5 and 41. We have been at that current location for 9 years this May. We see ourselves as a cor- poration that has a ministery in it to meet needs. Mayor Hamilton: organization that you go about it? Is the Mid-America Baptist Social Services Corporation a religious the property that will be purchased will be non-taxable or how do Chuck Gabrielson: It could be. We use city fire protection and city police protec- tion. I believe that a non-profit organization should hold up their end in paying taxes. We would not be required by law to pay taxes. We do, although, intend to pay taxes. We use the services, so I believe we should pay taxes. Barb Dacy: In speaking with Jim Castleberry, the Public Safety Director, when we originally notified him as part of our normal referral process I asked him about his experience with the present group home, and he told me that he has no problems with the existing and feels that the present staff is really above board in their opera- tion. If he had a negative comment, I surely would put it in the report. Council Meeting, March 11, 1985 -6- Mayor Hamilton: Under specific goals for group meetings, there doesn't seem to be any in depth religious training. Chuck Gabrielson: One thing that we do not wish to be inhibited as in the past is an institution or a program that is going to ram religion down the kids throats. One thing that I am afforded by being a non-profit organization and a religiously based corporation and I will hire only Christians to work in my group home. We are a Christian corporation. Thus, I believe that we need to be able to only answer to the physical and emotional needs that our kids have, but most of them have spiritual questions also. If you were to read a job description I have for the staff, the first and primary personal requirements for a group home parents is that I will hire is to demonstrate in living a Christian role model, not by preaching or verbal per- suasion. If the guys come home with me, they follow my rules. If the guys come home with me on a weekend they go to church with me at my home. At Christmas time, Easter time and Thanksgiving time, I often take the kids to church. I Mayor Hamilton: Who is appropriate? It says males, age 15 and over. Is there a maximum age limit? Chuck Gabrielson: We are licensed in such a fashion that we cannot accept into our program a child who is over the age of 18. After they have reached their 18th birth- day we are not able to accept them. We have had kids who have been placed at the group home before they have had their 18th birthday, but because they are either doing very well and don't have a home or because they are still in a need of that care. Mayor Hamilton: When the kids reach the age of 18, are they obligated to leave or I are you expected to find somewhere to place for them or can they stay another year? Chuck Gabrielson: Some have. In fact we have a kid who the social workers consider one of our miracle stories. Everyone was certain, whoever dealt with him, he would never graduate. At almost age 20, he graduated from high school and he finished with the reserves last September. He will now be going full time into the Army. We consider him a real trophy. Had he not had that help beyond his 18th birthday, and the willingness of the Carver County, as they foot the bill, he may have been out on the streets, or he may have been in Stillwater or St. Cloud by now. A couple of concerns that nearby residents had is the annual review and also, if things change with the group home and it gets to be a problem, would the Council be able to refuse the permit at any time? Councilman Geving: It is the residents duty to bring any complaints to the Council and at that time the permit would be reviewed. Other than the above concerns, the residents support the program and believe that it is a good location. Councilman Geving: I would like to have placed with the city, a charter or some official document of the Mid-America Baptist Social Service Corporation, because that is the group the Council will contact if we have problems with this Conditional Use Permit. I Mayor Hamilton: As a part of the Conditional Use Permit, I would like it sti- pultated and approved by the Mid-America Baptist Social Service Corporation that taxes will be paid. I I I Council Meeting, March 11, 1985 -7- Councilman Geving commented that he would like to see Building 03 preserved and some day rebuilt. He would rather not destroy the building, but it should be boarded up and watched closely. Mayor Hamilton moved to approve the Conditional Use Permit for a Group Home for Ten to Sixteen Males, at 1350 Flying Cloud Drive, Mid-America Baptist Social Services in accordance with the following conditions: 1. File an agreement between the City and Mid-American Baptist Social Service Corporation agreeing to pay property taxes. 2. Submission of a charter or articles of incorporation of Mid-American Baptist Social Service Corporation. 3. Prior to razing of any building, said action is to be con- sidered by the City Council prior to the destruction of the building. Motion was seconded by Councilman Horn. The following voted in favor: Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. votes. Motion carried. Mayor No negative Comments to the above motion include the concern for the buildings on the lot. Should the applicant decide to do anything with the buildings, he should notify the City Council for approval. It is in the City Council's best interest to save any buildings on the property unless there is no way of replenishing it/them. SKETCH PLAN REVIEW, HIDDEN VALLEY PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, SOUTHEAST OF THE INTERSECTION QI HIGHWAYS 2 AND ~ NEW AMERICAN HOMES: Barbara Dacy: The site is located in the southeast corner of Highway 101 and Highway 5, immediately west of Chanhassen Estates. There are single family homes on the west side of the property, just east of Highway 101. The proposal consists of 132 single family detached units between the American Legion property and the edge of the wetland. Also being proposed is an area for 90 single attached units and/or townhomes. Unique to this property is the exsistence of the classic wetland and Rice Marsh Lake. Because this is a planned unit developement or is intended to be one, the DNR has regulations concerning the tier of development density. The appli- cant and staff have been working with the DNR to work out the exact details of this formula and in this plan the applicant is showing their attempt to use that formula. In general, the concept for the overall layout is intending to match the lot size that is along the Chanhassen Estates border, although they are about 1,200 square feet short. Also, to meet the DNR regulations along the wetland area the overall density of the project for the detached areas is 2.8 units per acre and for the high density area it is 8.1 units per acre, which is considered within the development standards for the Comprehensive Plan. The average lot size is 12,550 square feet, the smallest being 5,300 square feet, the larger lots being 20,000 to 30,000 square feet and are located along the Class A Wetland. The proposed street pattern provi- des for access to Chanhassen Estates, really more for secondary access and provides for the inclusion of what has been known as Lake Drive East in the past studies, which is a Municipal State Aid Highway that will connect Audobon Road all the way east to l84th Street. The frontage road and to the access to 101 that much of the traffic to the development will be exits between those points. For landscaping the applicant is proposing a landscape plan with mature planting of at least one tree Council Meeting, March 11, 1985 -8- per every block. As far as housing styles, the housing styles will range from 950 to 1800 square feet. They will range in styles from two-story loft to a ranch style. The Park and Recreation Commission reviewed the plan at the beginning of the month and they had tabled the matter until April to do a little more research about the possibility of a trail easement along the existing utility easement on the south part of the property to provide connection from Chanhassen Estates Park to a future trailway through Chanhassen lakes Business Park and up to lake Ann. I note under the factors for consideration of the staff report that in the past, Planned Unit Developments as far as lot size is concerned, the smallest lot that has been approved is 7,600 square feet and that is in Near Mountain. lot widths in these developments usually measure at least 60 feet of width, however, in cul-de-sacs they go down to 45 feet. As lot sizes increase there has to be alot more attention made to the details of the development. The five details include: 1. Variation of housing styles, including a variety of housing floor plans designed to maximize privacy and usable open space. 2. Street and individual lot landscaping. 3. Availability of garages and unenclosed parking areas to adequately accommodate parking. 4. Setbacks and the relationship of one home to another especially in the fifty foot wide lots. The applicant is intending setbacks of 25 feet in the front and alternating 5 feet on the garage side and 10 on the remaining. 5. Restrictive covenants for architectural control, storage of recreational vehicles, and other miscellaneous items. That being a special plan to review at the Planning Commission Meeting. The Planning Commissioners will recognize the applicant's intent to work with the situation down by the wetland, however, they did not agree on the size of the lots, especially 5,000 square foot lot. The Commission felt that the overall density was too high. We recommended that the developer provide for more open space on site clustering the housing units as such to create that open space. Councilwoman Watson: I feel that the lots are way too dense. I would like to see 55 ft. cul-de-sacs, and average lot size of 15,000 sq.ft., 10 ft. side yards, both sides, 90 ft. back yards and I would like to see a net density figure. Councilman Geving: This area of development is a very unique area. It is the beginning point of Chanhassen. I would like to see 12 lots omitted from the plan, lots should have a 75-80 ft. frontage, larger cul-de-sacs - 55-60 ft., I would also like to see 80th Street vacated from the plan. Also, the city extended water and sewage to the south at a great expense to the American legion. It was my intention that the Am~rican legion be reimbursed for part of the costs at some future date. I believe this will happen when this development is put in. I am also concerned with the high density of the area. This will bring in 220 amily units to an area that already has 100 homes. This will intensely clutter the area. Councilman Horn: I am concerned with the high density in the outlot immediately adjacent to the single family homes of the Chanhassen Estates. I also feel that the lots are too dense. I I I I I I Council Meeting, March 11, 1985 -9- Jerry Martin, New American Homes: I will try to answer your questions and make a few comments. In regards to the affordability of the homes; last year in the Minneapolis-Metropolitan area, the Board of Realtors tell you that 50% of all the people in this area can afford to pay $55,000 to $85,000 for a home. I feel that if you want to get into that affordable range for housing in Chanhassen, you need a lot that costs around $15,000, and that is a lot that is 55 ft. wide. So the real question is, do you want to have affordable housing in Chanhassen? You can't put a $55,000 house on a $35,000 lot. Councilman Geving: What we want is houses that we are going to be proud of and home areas that are going to be very attractive. I do not want to look at 55 ft. lots that are so densely packed into a very beautiful area that it is going to destroy the entrance into Chanhassen. If it is not developed the way we want it done, it won't be done. Councilwoman Watson: I am concerned how it is going to look 20 years from now. I do not want people to look back at this development and have bad things to say about it. Jerry Martin: With the front outlot for the townhouses, we tried to develop this plan to accommodate the frontage road, which is going to be, undoubtedly, a busy street. I do not feel that many people would be willing to buy a single family home by a busy street. For the reason being, most of them will probably have children. In order to accommodate this busy street, we do not have any houses in front of it and the multi-family units would be above or from both the highway and the busy street. Mr. Martin showed three house plans to the Council. The smallest being a house of 1,000 square feet, it's a ranch house, it has a good size living room, dining area, comes standard with one bath, a master bedroom. The house is 40 feet wide and would sell in the low 60's. That is the price as it stands right now with the number of lots they have right now. The midline house will be a loft that ranges in size up to 1,440 square feet. The first floor is basically a ranch house with one bedroom, 2-car garage being standard, a living room, an eat-in kitchen and family room. The second floor is unfinished (standard) or you can buy in finished which includes a large master bedroom suite or it could be finished into two separate bedrooms with another full bath. The largest house is a two-story house which has three bedrooms upstairs, living room, dining room, eat-in kitchen, one-car garage (standard) or you could buy it with a two-car garage and a large family room. This house is priced at around $77,000. There would be three different ways to sod. They would control the way the houses were installed so they didn't have the same houses together, they would have 20 color packages to choose from and they would also somewhat control the colors of each house. The landscaping would consist of sod in the front yard and would like to know from the Council what kind of parkway tree to have. You could spend money on 1 two-inch parkway tree and a few house plantings or you could plant one large parkway tree and let the people live in the house do their own foundation plantings. Martin suggested to plant the one large parkway tree and let the resident do his own plantings. Mayor Hamilton: I believe the ordinence calls for at least 2 two-inch trees. The Council further discussed the high density of the lots. They felt the builder could sell the houses, with a little more time, if he were to make the lots larger. Jerry Hartin did not feel that way. As he stated before, according to the Board of Realtors, the affordable home in the Minneapolis-Metropolitan area is between the figures of $55,000 and $85,000. Council Meeting, March 11, 1985 -10- Councilman Horn: I would like to see the statistics for this tri-city area. I Roger Knutson: This can be obtained from the Metropolitan Council. Councilman Geving: Will the American Legion be partially reimbursed for the sewer and water hook-up expenses. Bill Monk: The present proposal is that the development would be hooked up to the Chanhassen Estates and it would be hard to get reimbursement from them because they will not be hooked up to the American Legion line. Jerry Martin: I assure you that we are very concerned about Chanhassen and we want to do something that will make everyone proud of. We would like to build in Chanhassen but we need your help. We need some relief on the lot sizes and there are so many lots that we can cut out of the plan, because every time we cut lots out we raise the lot cost. The development cost is going to be whatever the development cost is. No matter how many lots there are, there are so many lots that can swallow that development cost. Whether they are there for one year or five years, the initial advertising is going to spread over on how many lots that we have. What it boils down to is how much you can spread the cost overall on however many lots you have. If we reduce the lots too much, there is just no way to spread the cost. As far as the frontage road, we would be more than happy to put that in, but I do not feel that is a good area to put in big single family houses as it will most likely be a busy street. When our plan comes back, there will most likely be multi- family houses along that busy road. I do not feel that I can sell a single family house along that frontage road. Councilman Horn: That is not what we are asking for. All we are concerned about is that the single family homes be put up adjacent to the the single family lots in the Chanhassen Estates Development. Also, do these homes have basements? I Jerry Martin: They do do not come standard. $5,000. Approximately have basements if the people so desire The approximate cost for a basement to 25% of the people request a basement. them, but they be put in is $4,000 - AUDIO/VISUAL PROBLEMS, COUNCIL CHAMBERS: Jim Beletti from Dow-Sat appreared before the Council to make a few comments on the audio/visual problems. He stated that the equipment that was used tonight is not 100% represented as to what they could do with it. It is not the exact equipment that they would propose to put in. He believes that they could get better results. Another concern was the audio. When there is not many people in the room it really doesn't matter, but if there were to be a lot of people in the room, there would be a problem. Another thing is the way the Council Meetings are recorded. This does not look like the best setup that you could have been sold. He would propose to use a machine similar to that for something that the City could afford, not like what you have been demonstrating. It would be a jack into the existing system so that you could pick up all the sounds, not what one microphone can pick up. He feels that a studio in Chanhassen would not get the use it deserves considering there is a quite large studio in Excelsior. They would like to come up with some sort of package that would be best for the city as well as Dow-Sat. Mayor Hamilton commented that he liked the screen idea, as he could see things much better. I I I I Council Meeting, March 11, 1985 -11- Jim Beletti stated that if the city were to purchase screens, they were proposing to put in 10-inch screens; in between the two that were displayed tonight. They would also be located underneath the shelf of the Council table, not on the top, as they were tonight. Mayor Hamilton asked if they were to buy what Dow-Sat is proposing, will they be able to film the Council Meetings and then later play it on cable television? Jim Beletti replied that yes, it could, or anything that would go on. Councilman Horn asked if we could tie the present recorder into the proposed system. Jim Beletti stated that they could not, due to that fact that it doesn't have an external microphone or an auxilIary input on it. He said he did a lot of searching to find one that did and found the Panasonic. Don Ashworth stated that Dow-Sat has been very helpful in trying to help them. He said that people who make the dictating/transcribing equipment want to sell them and are not overly interested in trying to be innovative in terms of how to use existing amplifier systems and how to hook those in. Councilman Horn moved that the staff proceed with negotiations with Dow-Sat to see what they can come up with for a proposal for the Audio/Visual System. Motion was seconded by Mayor Hamilton. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilman Horn, Councilman Geving and Councilwoman Watson. No negative votes. Motion carried. SITE PLAN REVIEW, OLD INSTANT WEB BUILDING: Don Ashworth presented an inital plan of the Old Instant Web Building. He commented that it would probably be changed signi- ficantly as it goes through the Planning Commission. The existing parking will hold around 200 cars. There will be an addition to the parking lot of around 200 more cars. This hits the standard under the Ordinance. He stated that Barb Dacy and himself were asking Fred Hoisington from Brauer & Associates to review the plan and to make comments to the Planning Commission in terms of how the site plan conforms to the Ordinance and the proposed downtown plan. Don points out that site can be attractively done, there would be sufficient parking on the site to accomodate the uses that are being proposed. Don feels confident that the building configuration will also change. The bowling center section is pretty solid. They know exactly what they want. The retail spaces will be changed. It shows different retail uses that could be in there and shows different office space. Gary Kirk feels pretty confident that a private developer will come in for a health club facility. Don stated that we do have the agreements and that the proposals are done, they have gone to Dorek/Baden, they have gone to Gary Kirk, there is three agreements in total. We are behind on the subdivision process. Councilman Geving asked when the sale would take place? Don Ashworth replied that if we can get an agreement by the developers, we can bring it back to the City Council for next Monday and HRA for next Thursday. If we can get approval from those two at that point in time, the subdivision will be in front of you Monday night. The property cannot change hands without a physical sub- division of the property. That should put us in a position of say, by March 22 - 27. There was no action required on this item. It was brought to the Council's attention for their knowledge as to what the status is of the building. Council Meeting, March 11, 1985 -12- SIGNAGE: Councilman Geving stated that Ted Korzenowski contacted him again. Ted is somewhat disappointed that the Chamber is not moving as fast on removing the city sign and coming up with some alternatives for the city sign. Ted's concern is that he is losing a lot of business. What he is looking for is the reconsideration of the Council to have an off-site sign for a temporary one-year period. They are allowed for Chaparral. Geving feels that they have to do whatever is necessary from time to time to attract business people to Chanhassen, and then make sure that we keep them. We are able to keep them by giving them the kind of clientele that keeps them healthy. Ted indicated that he is having a hard time making it. He feels that he is losing business because it is skipping by him on the highway. It is Geving's request to provide an off-site sign for businesses on a one-to-one basis as they come in for a temporary period of time so they get the business built up to the point where it is recognized as a local business. Mayor Hamilton commented that additional signage on a property will not typically prove beneficial if other problems exist. He suggested that Mr. Korzenowski continue working with the Chamber for a new community business sign. The remainder of the Council agreed with Mayor Hamilton's comment. Don Ashworth stated that next week there will be a proposal before the Council to try to help Ted Korzenowski's financial problem, and feels that the city continues to try and help him. RESIGNATION: In December, Mayor Hamilton received a Letter of Resignation from Court MacFarlane. Mayor Hamilton suggested that they write him a letter of thanks for all the service that he has given us. Mayor Hamilton also suggested that he be be presented with a Maple Leaf Award, as he has given us many years of good service. The Council agreed with the recommendation. It was agreed that it be put on the agenda to present Court MacFarlane with this award. AWARD Qf MTC OPT-OUT FEASABILITY STUDY CONTRACT: Barbara Dacy: We had a very interesting process. The whole transit situation is changing because of the Federal cutbacks. When BRW made their presentation, the principal plannner just came back from Phoenix, Arizona where they have completely deregulated the transit system. There were a bunch a small systems sprouting up. Out of the five applicants that we have, BRW really impressed us as far as the personnel involved and their experience in how they were going to approach the city. One unique thing that they came up with for pinpointing major traffic generators was a license plate survey. Writing down license plates numbers and putting that through the state computer system to deter- mine where people are coming from. The rest of the applicants just send out a mail- out surveyor interviewing employers and so on. We appreciated BRW's attention to detail on this particular project. I assume that they were approved by Chaska's City Council last Monday. At the end of the six month period in June you will be seeing the result of their study and with their recommendation either to keep the existing system or to scrap it and to start allover. They have started the study and it should be finished by June 30. REVISED SEWER AND WATER ORDINANCES, FINAL READING: Councilman Geving moved to approve the Revised Versions of Sewer Ordinance No.5 and Water Ordinance No.6, Final Reading. Motion was seconded by Councilwoman Watson. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilman Geving, and Councilwoman Watson. Councilman Horn opposed. Motion carried. Councilwoman Watson moved to adjourn the meeting. Motion was seconded by Councilman Horn. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. I I I