1985 09 23
I
I
I
REGULAR CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
September 23, 1985
Mayor Hamilton called the meeting to order. The meeting was opened with the Pledge
to the Flag.
Members Present
Councilman Horn, Councilwoman Watson,
Councilwoman Swenson and Councilman
Geving
Members Absent
None
Staff Present
Don Ashworth, Barbara Dacy,
Bill Monk and Lori Sietsema
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilman Geving moved to approve the agen a as presented with
the addition of discussion on the Bavaria Watershed, discussion rif the Bluff Creek
Railroad and discussion regarding the AMM Meeting. Motion was sJconded by
Councilwoman Watson. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen
Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votJs. Motion carried.
I
I
I
consent agenda pursuant to
I
I
Valley,
I
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilwoman Watson moved to approve the
the City Manager's recommendation:
a .
Approve Construction Plans and Specifications for Hidden
United Mortgage.
i
b. Conditional Use Permit for a 10 Foot High Tennis Court Fence, Lot
4, Block 1, Christmas Acres, Todd Novaczyk. I
c. Approval of Conditional Use Permit for Chanhassen Mall, G~ry Kirt.
d. Approval of Engineering Service Agreement.
e.
Approval of Conditional Use Permit for Gardeneer, Inc., 6421
Hazeltine Boulevard. I
Horn. The following voted in favor:
Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving.
I
Mayor
No negative
Motion was seconded by Councilman
Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and
votes. Motion carried.
PUBLl C HEAR ING
CERTIFICATION OF DELINQUENT UTILITY ACCOUNTS:
Mayor Hamilton called the public hearing to order.
public, Councilman Geving moved to close the public
Councilwoman Watson. The following voted in favor:
Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No
Mayor Hamilton: It
consistently having
kind of thing.
kind of disturbs me to see
delinquent utility bills.
There being ro comment from the
hearing. Motion was seconded by
Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen
negative votes. Motion carried.
I
people who are active in the community
I
I think they should be above that
I
Council Meeting, September 23, 1985
-2-
Councilwoman Swenson moved to table this item until the October 7, 1985 meeting.
Motion was seconded by Councilwoman Watson. The following voted in favor: Mayor
Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative
votes. Motion carried.
MINUTES:
Mayor Hamilton moved to note the Planning Commission minutes dated August 28, 1985.
Motion was seconded by Councilwoman Swenson. The following voted in favor: Mayor
Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative
votes. Motion carried.
Councilwoman Watson moved to note the Park and Recreation minutes dated August 6,
1985. Motion was seconded by Councilwoman Swenson. The following voted in favor:
Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No
negative votes. Motion carried.
APPROVAL OF ACCOUNTS PAYABLE:
Councilman Horn: I have a question regarding the purchase of the video equipment. I
thought that was a part of the cable deal.
Don Ashworth: The Fire Department has requested this for the past two years. It has
been stricken out of previous budgets. It was included in this years. The video
store sold it to them at their cost. The terms of the agreement with Dow-Sat is you
can come in and use this equipment any time that you would like to. The rule that
you have to obey, however, is that whatever you film has to be turned over to them
for public airing. So, legally, the Fire Department cannnot use that equipment.
Councilman Horn: Can't they turn the tape over to the public?
Don Ashworth: They could show it for airing and they would probably attract some
interest the first time around, but I don't that there would be a continuous
interest.
Councilman Horn: I don't understand why we need a camera?
Don Ashworth: They will take that camera out and set a car on fire, they will have
people going in and putting out that fire and cutting people out, or whatever it hap-
pens to be. They will then bring that tape back in and as a part of the next week's
program, they will show that and analyze it in terms of who should have been where,
etc. If a new guy comes on, they will have the tape there show the different types
of evolutions that they have gone through.
Councilman Horn: And that is all it will be used for.
Don Ashworth: I will put out a memorandum directly telling them that they shall not
use that for any type of personal use.
Councilwoman Swenson moved to approve the bills as presented: check #022840 through
check #022934 in the amount of $624,212.05 and check U025499 through check #025619 in
the amount of $213,756.63. Motion was seconded by Councilwoman Watson. The
following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson,
Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried.
FRONT AND SIDE YARD SETBACK VARIANCE REQUEST, 6290 AUDUBON CIRCLE, CRAIG GREENWALD:
The above item was passed unanimously at a previous Board of Adjustments and Appeals
meeting. Therefore, no action was required by the Council.
I
I
I
I
I
I
Council Meeting, September 23, 1985
-3-
SUBDIVISION QI 1.93 ACRES INTO TWO LOTS QI .80 AND 1.13 ACRES, NORTHWEST CORNER OF
MINNEWASHTA PARKWAY AND RED CEDAR POINT, ROY LEACH:
Barb Dacy: The subject parcel is located on the north side of Reid Cedar Point Road,
approximately one-half mile east of Minnewashta Parkway. The subject parcel totals
approximately 2 acres in size. Parcel A is the site that was recently approved for
an 18 unit townhome project. They reserved 42 feet for an outlot. What is being
proposed is a combination of this 42 foot strip with the northerly parts of this 3
acre parcel. Both lots exceed the zoning ordinance requirement and the Shore-land
Management requirement for the lot area. Parcel B is 34,800 square feet. Parcel C,
with the existing home is 49,261 square feet. Each meets the frontage requirement.
Parcel B would be accessed by what was shown as Wilson Drive, but it is Hickory Road.
Kirkham Road is a bigger street, but technically a pubic right-of-way and the pro-
posed driveway will be accessing for lots across the Kirkham right-of-way. There is
a 22 foot wide easement along the easterly portion of Parcel B. This easement provi-
des lake access for Parcel C only. Staff has recommended that a right-of-way be
platted in Parcel B for a turn around for the city maintenance vehicles if needed.
The Planning Commission was concerned about this, asking staff to research if that
much right-of-way is needed, etc. We worked on it a little bit more. The Kirkham
Road right-of-way is only 30 feet wide and what we are proposing is to reserve this
area on the plat for a turn around, if needed. It would be constructed by the City
maintenance crews and there would be no charge or assessment back to the property
owners. The Commission was also concerned about the reservation of the easement
along the east side. There is an existing dock on the lake now that serves the owner
of Parcel C. With the subdivision of the Parcel, Parcel B has riparian rights and
has rights to have a dock. In our staff report we stated the requirement in the
water surface usage ordinance regarding the ability for a guest boat to be stored
overnight. The Planning Commission felt that this was a private. matter to be deter-
mined between the two homeowners and that there be one dock ther~ with the maximum
number of five slips per dock, as any other dock. The Planning Commission action,
therefore, was to approve the preliminary plat with the condition that the engineer
and the applicant work out an effective solution for the cul-de-sac, which we have
done and which is the right-of-way as you see here.
Councilwoman Swenson: Is the applicant aware that there will bej a sewer and water
assessment? I remember that particular lot was included in that north service area
and then we chopped it off because it wasn't serviced by a public street. Now we
are being told that it has a public street. As long as he has been totally aware of
the fact that this is the case. It is understood, is it not, that you will not be
able to put a dock on the 20 foot easement?
Barb Dacy: Correct.
Councilwoman Swenson: Will
his lot that the people who
having problems with this?
this run with the land so that if Mr. Comer ever sells
buy it, we aren't going to run into future Councils
I
Barb Dacy: I did insure the description for Parcel B as far as the plat is con-
cerned, we will have an easement that will run with the land to provide lake access.
So your concern is then if the ownership changes, then they are going to affirm that
they have the ability to construct a dock?
Councilwoman Swenson: Yes. Do they have?
Councilman Horn: No.
Councilwoman Swenson: This would not be a debatable subject then?
Council Meeting, September 23, 1985
-4-
Bill Monk: No.
Councilman Horn:
-
to having a slip
correct?
I assume that the ordinance is written that the access of Parcel C
on the dock is purely at the pleasure of the new lot, is that
I
Barb Dacy: Yes.
Councilman Horn: There needs to be nothing else written into convenants that he has
more than that use, and he is aware of that?
Barb Dacy: Yes. Supposidly, they have agreed to share the dock together. Mr. leach
has stated that to me.
Councilman Horn: And he will only have one boat on it?
Barb Dacy: Mr. Comer will.
that recommendation not be
ability to contain five is
But what the Planning Commission recommended is that
imposed. It is a private agreement on the dock and the
up to the property owners to decide that.
Councilman Horn: But that is contrary to the beachlot ordinance.
Barb Dacy: The Commissioners felt that what is written in the surface usage ordi-
nance, they felt that staff is taking the wrong interpretation of that. They felt
that the guest boat provision did not apply in this case.
Councilman Horn: I think that they are correct. They are not talking about an adja-
cent owner and they are talking about a guest who would come and stay overnight and I
use their boat. That is not the case here. That is basically what is happening on
lake Minnetonka. They are cracking down very strictly on this type of thing where
you sublet a portion of your dock out to someone else. I tend to agree with the
Planning Commission. We are not talking about guests here.
Barb Dacy: The Planning Commission's recommendation was that it is a private
agreement and Parcel B will have the right to have a dock and the ability to dock
five boats as any other riparian owner. However, whether Mr. Comer will have a dock
is purely up to them.
Councilwoman Swenson: That is not the intent of the ordinance. The intent of the
ordinance was to prevent people from renting a space on the dock. The problem I have
with this is I can see that this is precisely what we were trying to have happen.
Mayor Hamilton:
saying, I don't
problem you get
lake to use the
It is simply a matter of enforcement. I agree with what you are
think that was the intent of the ordinance. That is the same type
into with any other beachlot where you are allowing people off the
lake that weren't really intended to in the first place.
of
Councilman Horn: I think my concern is, if I interpret with what the Planning
Commission said, is that it is a private matter. I disagree with that. It is a
matter of ordinance. By saying that I think they are condoning this activity, and
that is not the intent.
I
Councilwoman Swenson: How do we control something like that?
Mayor Hamilton: I think all we need to do is say that the owner of Parcel B has the
right to put in a dock and use it. The person of Parcel B can give the person of
Parcel C an easement to cross his property to get to the lake.
I
I
I
Council Meeting, September 23, 1985
-5-
Councilman Horn: I think it should be pointed out exactly what the intent is of the
ordinance. It is not intended for two households to use the same dock. This provi-
sion is only an over night guest type of thing.
Barb Dacy: The Planning Commission did not have a problem with the two lots sharing
the dock in that it was a private agreement, and they have some problems with the
easement.
Councilman Horn: That is not what the ordinance says.
Councilman Geving moved to approve the subdivision #85-15 (1.93 acres into two lots
of .80 and 1.13 acres, Northwest corner of Minnewashta Parkway and Red Cedar Point)
as depicted on the Preliminary Plat dated August 30, 1985 with the following
conditions:
1. That Parcel B be allowed 1 dock;
2. That a 40 foot diameter cul-de-sac be platted on the eastern border
of Parcel B and will be shown on the Final Plat;
3. That a sewer and water assessment for lateral trunk benefits be placed
at the time and date of issuance of the permit.
Motion was seconded by Councilwoman Watson. The following voted in favor: Mayor
Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative
votes. Motion carried.
SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR ~ MANUFACTURING/WAREHOUSE BUILDING FOR VICTORY ENVELOPE, 14.5
ACRES ~ THE SOUTHWEST CORNER Q[ ~ II AND HIGHWAY 1L FORTIER ASSOCIATES:
Barb Dacy: The parcel is located on the southwest corner of the Hwy 5 and County
Road 17 intersection. A couple of weeks ago a replat and a series of vacations were
processed to eliminate the proposed Park Circle and eliminate the previous lots to
create one lot. The applicant is requesting site plan approval for a 147,593 square
foot warehouse/manufacturing facility for Victory Envelope. The only recommendation
that we do have on the plan that is the parking area along the front that the two
driveways be connected. Our other recommendations are as follows: We requested
additional landscaping during the initial landscaping plan review and the applicant
has revised that landscaping plan and submitted that to my office this morning. Our
proposed condition of approval is that maintaining that of the Planning Commissions.
Thirdly, approval and compliance with all Watershed District and DNR conditions.
Fourth, at the Planning Commission meeting, staff recommended that restabilization of
all disturbed areas outside the construction limits be restabilized within two weeks
of grading completion and no later than November 15, 1985. However, the Planning
Commission did not institute that recommendation in their approval. Fifth, recom-
mending that the developer be responsible for removing the existing curb in the dri-
veway entrances and construction of new concrete aprons; and finally, all bituminous
areas shall be lined with concrete curb. The Planning Commission action was to recom-
mend approval, but with the amendment to condition number two regarding the
landscaping plan to be worked out to the applicants and staffs satisfaction.
Councilman Geving: I have been down Park Road the last few days looking at United
Mailings area and what they have done with their parking. When you look at it, you
can't really see the parking at United Mailing. I like that berming affect. I would
like to see the same thing to the north for Victory Envelope. I don't know if the
height of that is going to make a difference.
Council Meeting, September 23, 1985
-6-
Barb Dacy: The applicant has submitted a revised landscaping plan this morning. I
have not had an opportunity to review it, but there is a slight berm there and addi-
tional vegetation. That is one of our objectives to screen the parking area and the
loading area as well.
Darryl Fortier: We are going to have some difficulty trying to screen these lots.
The site is sloped. There is a fall from a 950 elevation up here down to a 920 down
here. The building is going to sit at a 944 entrance elevation. The street is going
to come in at a 934 elevation. We are going to have a 10 foot difference. That slo-
pes up and away and because we have no parking for the first 100 feet, it is really
difficult to create a berm that is going to obstruct the view of the parking. We
have generated a small berm in the front for the future parking. We have a berm the
height of the head lights so you can see the top of the cars, but you cannot see
the base of them. We have also created some additional landscaping including
evergreens that will add some winter interest. We have tried to respond that way.
The creation of a berm for this particular application will be very difficult.
Councilman Geving: You mentioned that the berming on the west side or the placing of
the willows would hide the building. It has been my experience with willows that
they grow fast and don't last very long. They are not very perminent. Is that a
true statement?
I
Darryl Fortier: I believe that is a true statement. A willow is a very soft tree
and it grows very rapidly and provides a very dense cover. The branches are so thick
that they are difficult to see through. The reason the landscape architect has cho-
sen willows is because we have a very substantial modification to the drainage way.
We have a creek which comes through here and we have approximately a 100 foot set-
back. We have to create two ponds per the DNR's request and the Watershed's request I
at this location. We, therefore, just aligned that area with willows to create an
almost continuous barrier.
Councilman Gevinq: At what point do we get into the grading standards for the
parking lot, etc. The only comment that I want them to be, and I know the Council
wants them to fit whatever else we have done to United Mailing and Instant Web.
Councilwoman Swenson: In referring to the creek, what provisions are you making to
take care of that?
Darryl Fortier: As I mentioned, there is a fair amount of work that this going to be
going on in the property. The first requirement we have for the contractor is he
must immediately install erosion control measurements in terms of continuous snow
fence and hay bales immediately adjacent to the creek before he is allowed to proceed
with excavation. This should catch the run-off and silt.
Mayor Hamilton: On the parking lots on the northwest side and the south side, where
is the run-off on those parking lots going to go? Is that going to go directly into
the creek or what is going to happen?
Darryl Fortier: We have two large retaining ponds. One will take water from the
rear of the building and off the building and the other pond will take water from the
front.
Councilwoman Swenson moved to approve Site Plan #85-5 for a manufacturing/warehouse I
building for Victory Envelope, 14.5 acres on the southwest corner of CR 17 and
Highway 5 as depicted on the site plan stamped "Received September 5, 1985" with the
following conditions:
I
I
I
Council Meeting, September 23, 1985
-7-
1. That the front parking area be connected to the west access drive
at the initial construction phase.
2. The landscaping plan will be worked out to the staff's and the applicant's
satisfaction.
3. Approval by and compliance with all Watershed and DNR conditions.
4. Restabilization of all disturbed areas outside the constr~ction limits
within two weeks of grading completetion, but no later than November 15,
1985.
5. The developer is responsible for removal of existing curb in the
driveway entrances and construction of new concrete aprons that will
facilitate continuous gutter flow along Park Road.
6. All bituminous areas shall be lined with concrete curb.
7. Reinforse the buffering of the creek area prior to const~uction.
Motion was seconded by Mayor Hamilton.
Bill Monk: The Council should be aware that condition number four was adopted by the
Watershed District and will be required by the Watershed District. If it cannot be
met, their permit will be void. Whether the Council adopts that or not, I want to
make that known to both the applicant and the Council.
Mayor Hamilton: Is that going to cause a problem for you, Mr. Fortier?
Darryl Fortier: As I presented to the Planning Commission, yes it is. We will have
to prehaps, go back to the Watershed District and ask them for permission to violate
that. It simply means that construction cannot start this year and will be delayed
until next spring.
Mayor Hamilton: I would rather leave it out of our conditions for approval and have
you go to the Watershed District and have them work it out for you. And if you go
back to the Watershed, please let our staff know what the decision is.
Councilwoman Watson:
Watershed District.
We would then leave item 04 out in lieu of the decision by the
The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson,
Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried.
I
CONSIDERATION Q[ MORTGAGE REVENUE BONDS FOR APARTMENT CONSTRUCTION, GENE REZAC:
Don Ashworth stated that Mr. Rezac will make a presentation. He1stated that Mr.
Rezac is asking for the Council's consideration for mortgage revenue bonds to allow
for the construction of apartment complexes south of lake Susan and he cannot proceed
at the present time because the ordinance prohibits mortgage revenue bonds for resi-
dential construction.
Gene Rezac stated that they would like to develop 120 rental townhouse units. He
stated that with all the new businesses, this is something that Chanhassen needs and
that the purpose is to provide homes for those who cannot afford to buy homes. He
continued to say that before they can go ahead and spend a lot of money, they need an
inducement resolution allowing them to use housing revenue bonds. He stated that
they would be willing to allow the City to put qualifications on the bonds. He
stated that due to conventional interest rates, it is almost impossible to complete a
project like this without having a lower fixed-rate interest and that no financial
institution is willing to put a cap on an interest rate for a project of this nature.
He added that the property taxes that are going to be generated from this project
will be at least $120,000 a year.
Mayor Hamilton stated that he thought the discussion was going to be more on revenue
bonds and for the applicant to try and convince the Council to change the ordinance
to allow for residential revenue bond funding.
Council Meeting, September 23, 1985
-8-
The Council discussed this matter and felt that before they can proceed with any type
of an answer, they will need to be supplied with more information on revenue bond
financing.
Councilwoman Swenson moved to table this item until the Council has been supplied
with a sufficient amount of information on residential revenue bond financing to make
an intelligent decision. Motion was seconded by Councilman Geving. The following
voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and
Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried.
A P PRO V A L ..QI FI N ALP ARK PL AN FOR SOU T H LOT U S L A K E BOA T A C C E S S :
Mark Koeqler: I would like to highlight the changes that have been made since the
previous items that you have seen. With the upper area, there have not been too many
significant changes. We have pulled some of the plantings out of the island areas,
which has been an economy move. Focusing on the lower portion, first of all the
access was shifted a little bit. We shifted it back to the northwest a little more
as far as we could. There is now approximately 45 - 50 feet in there, which is 15
feet more than we had in the previous layout that you had seen. The landscaping
plan, much the same as up above, has been changed to reflect the shifting of the
access and a couple other factors. We have changed a few things along this portion
of the project. We have come in with a very dense planting. You will note that
there is a fence that runs about 250'-290' along this property line. That has pre-
sently been put in as a 4 foot high chain-link fence. It is intended to serve as an
additional barrier without looking too institutionalized. We think that with the
dense plantings that are going in, that really won't be seen too much from the park
side and will be more visible from the residential side of the project. Again, we
have pulled some plantings from the island areas. The improvements that we are pro-
posing in here, depending upon what the market is going to be at the time of bidding,
may run that portion of the project over by 4 or 5 percent. We may save that amount
of money on some other item when we get into the final plans and specs and the
bidding on these things. The theme down below is essentially remaining unchanged
despite using a few less plant materials. We are still emphasizing all the activi-
ties being on the opposite side of the residential area.
Councilman Horn: How much more would a cedar fence be along there, rather than a
chain link?
Mark Koeqler: The chain link fence in that portion, the estimate was somewhere
within $1,500. I would estimate that it would be 25 to 30 percent more for an
equivalent fence of wood.
Councilman Horn: I think that would be much more aesthetic and pleasing and you
wouldn't have to worry about the institutionalized look.
Mark Koegler: The other approach that we could take there, if it was desirous to
have a chain link fence, some of the fabric coated fences in the dark colors. That
cost, again, is quite a bit higher than the standard fence.
Councilman Geving: Why did you go with the 4-foot fence.
Mark Koeqler: That was a starting point. I believe the position that we have recom-
mended all along was to keep the park as aesthetically pleasing as possible.
Councilman Geving:
and apparently the
any place where we
In our earlier discussions we were talking about berming the area
reason that you got away from berming is that there is just isn't
can get enough dirt to make the berms.
I
I
I
I
I
I
Council Meeting, September 23, 1985
-9-
Mark Koegler: It isn't that simple. The problem there is that we need a drainage
swale down in that lower portion.
Councilman Geving: If we did go to some kind of a six foot fence, I think our inten-
tion here was to keep people out of this side of the area. That is really what we
intended to do. I would like it to extend all the way to the end of that lot. I
would also like to see something else in the middle of your picture there. I see
that to be something to mow and maintain. Is there a better aggregate of something
with a low maintenance?
Mark Koegler: The reason that is and you will note that the one on this side is
seeded and the other one is sod. This is going to be another depressed drainage
swale.
Councilman Geving: How wide is that walkway?
Mark Koegler: That hasn't been defined yet. We are using a 6 foot walkway in the
lake Ann area and I think this one would be more narrow than that. I would suggest a
4 foot walkway.
Councilman Geving: What are the plans for the gateway in the upper area?
Mark Koegler: To date, there hasn't been a decision if there will be a gate house
or if there will not be a gate house. When and if that decision is made, we will
accommodate that along the right-of-way section down in here. We have adequate area
to bring in a gate house to control that entrance.
Don Ashworth: We do have the pump house below. It is proposed as a part of the ini-
tial construction to put in posts with chain that would be unlocked in the morning by
our water people as they are going to this facility and it would be locked in the
evening as a part of the police activities. I am convinced that this will provide
security and safety for this facility. If that is wrong and we do have a problem,
Mr. Koegler has designed it in such a way that we can put a gate house at that faci-
lity.
Councilwoman Watson: Are we going to wait for the problem to exist before we put the
gate house in? I would rather not wait until we have a disaster on our hands before
someone says, lets' put up the gate.
Don Ashworth: We are putting in the gate initially. Based on the record at lake
Minnewashta and the boat launching there, the gate house was not really necessary as
part of just the boat activity associated with that park. They did put in a gate
house, but that includes the entire park area. We will be opening and locking that
facility every day. let's wait and see if we have some type of a problem or not. We
should be able to react to any type of a problem within a very quick period of time.
Councilwoman Swenson: I disagree with you.
this seven days a week. But I think that on
imperative. It won't cost that much to have
holidays.
I would not propose that they have
weekends and holidays it is positively
someone in there on weekends and on
Don Ashworth: On Dale's response regarding the fencing. I talked to Mark on this
issue and we designed it to the lower standards trying to consider what it was that
Mr. Melby would like to see. The farther that fence goes back, you have got some
severe grades in there and it is very unlikely that anyone would walk back that addi-
Council Meeting, September 23, 19B5
-10-
tional length that the fencing is being proposed. It would be almost impossible to
get there. The six foot fence is going to have more of a visual impact. From the
staffs standpoint, we don't really care. We designed the smaller standard to be less
obtrusive to the property owners.
I
Jack Melby: My comment
people out of there. I
line as you can manage.
of water influenced the
is the ability to catch
there would be that I am really more concerned about keeping
would rather see a six foot fence as far along the property
Also, Mark had stated earlier that the storage and retention
need for a berm. That has been one of our primary concerns
high velocity of water running off that hill.
Mark Koegler: We had looked at that when we were going through the preliminary sta-
ges of engineering. We feel that we can control the velocity of water coming down
which eventually discharges in the swale area to prevent the erosion problems that, I
believe, you probably fear. What we will be coming back with on the 7th of October
is the detailed engineering plans for this Council and any other residents to review
and that will actually have the calculations to the numbers. But the work we are
doing now on that does detect that we will be able to accomplish that objective, that
we will be able control the run off with the upper pond, with the lower pond with
catch basin and storm sewer system that we are designing. We will certainly be pre-
pared to present that in its fullest form on the 7th. I know that has been a very
legitimate concern all along. It is not one that we have been trying to get around
in any way.
Jack Melby: A couple of items that I referred to in my letter of July 24, 19B5. I
am speaking for my neighbors who are not here tonight. We requested that alcohol not
be allowed in the park to help prevent needless vandalism and noise. We would like I
you to consider that.
Mayor Hamilton: It is already in our ordinance.
Jack Melby: Also, we would like to see one or the other down there, the park or the
access, but not both. We don't want to absorb too much in that small neighborhood.
The last thing we are requesting is a balance sheet that would show us, in terms of
what is transpired with the park and everything associated with that. I think we
have a general curiosity there. I don't know if that is a legitimate thing to ask or
not.
Mayor Hamilton: That is a moot question because it has already been approved and the
funds have been cleared and the park is going to be there, but you certainly can see
them.
Area Resident: Is the road paved?
Mayor Hamilton: Yes.
Area Resident: Is it not possible for that to be a gravel road?
Mayor Hamilton: It is probably because we have a lift station down there and we need
to get our vehicles down there. It is going to have to be plowed in the winter and
it is going to be a whole lot easier if it is a paved surface.
Area Resident: Why does the path have to be paved? That just gives us another coin
to run on.
I
I
I
I
Council Meeting, September 23, 1985 -11-
Mark Koeqler: You are right, anytime you put in a hard surface !YOU get an increased
run off. The effect of a 4 foot path through here is virtually negligible compared
to the surface that is in there. There'have been certain considJrations from the
. I
beginning of this project in terms of access to the general public. I think that is
reflected by the states requirement to p~t two parking spots dOW~ here for the
elderly and the handicapped individuals. In previous conversations with the state,
they are also concerned about how easy it would be for somebody to get to the parking lot
down below. It is consistent with the DNR's thinking that that Jould be paved
because it is easier walking up a grade on a paved surface rathe~ than an aggregate
surface or a chipped surface. The other problem we have is due to the steep grade.
If we use chips, which would probably be the easiest walking, th~y will, again, wash
out constantly. We will then have more maintenance problems bec~use those will get
into the storm drainage system which will cause problems there ad well. Reviewing
those circumstances, we really felt that the more narrow bitumi]lous walkway would be
the best way to go.
Mayor Hamilton moved to approve the final park plan for South Lo~us Lake boat access
as presented with the following changes: 1) The fencing be changed from four feet
to six feet high, and 2) to include a gate house to control the number of boats using
the lake. Motion was seconded by Councilwoman Swenson. The foliow{ng voted in
favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Council~en Horn and Geving.
No negative votes. Motion carried. ~
CODE ENFORCEMENT ~ DOWNTOWN AREA:
Mayor Hamilton: This is a review item so we would be aware of w at is happening and
who those are who are in violation. I would like to make a comment on the letter
from Tonka Insulation & Kurimchak Builders. The letter stated t11at it was
appropriate to have their semi trucks parked near a lumber yard. There is not a
lumber yard there anymore. I am not sure why they feel that they need to have their
trucks there. They are no less an eye sore than any other truckj
Don Ashworth: I believe her point was that she didn't feel that it hurt to have them
parked in that lower section and that nobody could really see it
Mayor Hamilton: There are certain places to put these type of tjings and this is
not the appropriate place.
Councilman Geving: I like the way we are handling this whole pr cess and I think we
are really making progress.
Councilwoman Swenson:
tion of our ordinance.
Brown's Standard. They
,:,
There are a couple of free~standing signs that are'in viola-
They are underneath the ptice signs of b th Holiday and
are illegal.
Don Ashworth: I will pass these things along.
Councilman Horn: What about when it comes to storing trucks. T e hardware store has
this big van type vehcile that they need for their business.
adverti1ement sign. There
:0:::'01ion be'o"oe it io
tley ho"' things io
I
Don Ashworth: That is Hardware Hank. They use it as an
is really no question about that. I don't know if it is
moved every day.
Councilman Horn: I think it is part of their business.
it?
Council Meeting, September 23, 1985
-12-
Don Ashworth: It is apparently driven to and from work because it is moved every
da y .
Councilman Horn: So that is the criteria, if something is moved every day, it is not
in violation.
Don Ashworth: The practical effect is that they are using it as an advertisement
vehicle.
Councilman Horn:
removed at night.
There is a difference if it is used every day or whether it is
Is there a difference?
Don Ashworth: It makes a difference as far as prosecuting on the basis of storing or
as it being a sign. I will pass the question along to the attorney's office. In my
mind it is a sign even though it is a mobile sign. Would the Council like to see
that truck out of there?
Mayor Hamilton: No.
Councilwoman Swenson: I think that it is part of his business. It is not a free
standing sign. You have got to give these people a chance to make a living.
BAVARIA WATERSHED:
Councilwoman Swenson: On the Bavaria Watershed there are three sections. The rest
of it is Chanhassen. There is one little piece that is part of Victoria. There were
some other sections. Chaska petitioned to have that withdrawn from that watershed
because it really didn't flow into it. Two of the parcels that were involved do not
flow into it either. The charges for the studies and the eventual recommendations
are going to be paid for per acreage involvement. We have very little. I won't have
the actual costs until tomorrow night. I doubt if it will run more than $500. I did
talk to Bill about this and we should write and see if those can be removed. One
should belong to the Minnehaha Creek and the other to Bluff Creek. AMENDED 10-21-85,
PAGE 3.
REVIEW MSA ALIGNMENT Qf. lAKE lUCY ROAD BETWEEN f.!!.12. AND f.!!. 117:
The City Engineer reviewed a sketch plan of a rural plat on the Steller property
south of the existing lake lucy Road and east of Galpin Boulevard. The Engineer
pointed out that this plat was not consistent with the existing MSA alignment
designation for future lake lucy Road. At this time it is necessary to make a deter-
mination of the future alignment for lake lucy Road in this area so that the
Steller's can plat their property. The Engineer recommended that a corridor be
platted through the Steller's property to accommodate for the City's future need for
an east/west connector between TH 41 and CR 17.
Mayor Hamilton: When did that all come about, the realignment?
Bill Monk: lake lucy Road has always had that state aid designation every since I
have been here. That gives it no real official bearing as far as the road goes,
except that years ago when the state aid system was designated, about five years ago,
that it was seen that lake lucy between CR 17 and TH 41 would be a major street and
take a fair amount of traffic between TH 41 and CR 17 as it represents the only place
that you can get through.
Councilwoman Swenson: Is there a road there now?
Bill Monk: No. It is a future designation for a possible road. The intent of the
alignment is to get some straight through road that will hook up TH 41 and CR 17
I
I
I
I
I
I
Council Meeting, September 23, 1985
-13-
somewhere between TH 7 and TH 5. Whether that road takes the existing alignment and
then comes down of CR 117 and over to TH 41, that is something that I wanted to
discuss at this point and see how the Council would want to go.
Mayor Hamilton: What is the reality of that ever happening?
Bill Monk: Merrill Steller has come in with a sketch plan. He is aware that lake
lucy Road has been designated across his site, but the City has never really
discussed the realignment in this area. Mr. Steller would like to see the state aid
designation changed to move along the existing lake lucy Road alignment and swing
down CR 117 and then west over on some future alignment back over to TH 41. I am
concerned if we do that we will be increasing the congestion on CR 117 with the
intersections for Crestview Drive, Crestview Circle, West 63rd Street and lake lucy
Road coming in right at the crest of the hill. At this point I am asking whether the
Council wishes to consider acquiring the right-of-way for the lake lucy Road rede-
signation before it is lost through platting.
Councilman Geving: I guess this is the first time all of us have seen this align-
ment. What is wrong with carrying that lake lucy Road from the east all the way to
the west and using t~e present alignment to the north and following the section line
directly west to CR 17.
Bill Monk: The big problem with that is you do traverse a large .wetlands to
the west near TH 41. Also the road has to back up to all the existing housea along
I
Crestview and along Crestview Drive in this location and some of those houses are
very close to the back lot line. It has never been seen fit to go down there with
the existing houses. When the designation was made, I can only assume that it was
made to try and get more of a pass to the south that would expose this large parcel
to development in the future. After looking at the contours, this is basically the
alignment that we would have to follow to meet the area designations if we wanted a
straight through intersection at CR 117.
Mayor Hamilton: Well, I will ask you again, what is the reality of that ever hap-
pening? I~ that going to be a county road?
Bill Monk: Possibly. It is a municipal state aid road. It is our road. I think
that it is a very real possibility to think that we could construct the road as a
part of this plat within the near future. In trying to look at the long term and how
we will get traffic between TH 41 and CR 17, I thought it should at least be brought
back to the Council. I am a little bit hesitant to write it off from the long term
City development. It is very unlikely that we would allow a plat and then look to
buying it at some future date. So if we don't move now to try and get the road
incorporated into plats as they go in and then purchase the right-of-way as those
plats are being put in we are basically just saying that the existing alignment is
the way it will be.
Mayor Hamilton: If we go ahead with that, what happens to the existing alignment?
That remains there also?
Bill Monk: If the City would not want to plat the realignment, the state aid layout
would be modified to follow the existing system.
Mayor Hamilton: Go the other way, if the decision is to plat that what happens to
the existing road alignment?
Council Meeting, September 23, 1985
-14-
Bill Monk: The western portion of lake lucy Road as it currently exists would become I
a cul-de-sac and the current intersection would be closed. Traffic from this new
deadend would be routed to the new alignment which would work quite nicely.
Councilwoman Swenson: It looks like to me if we go through with it like that, we are
really going to make a major impact on this development.
Councilman Geving: He is going to have to have some City streets in there anyway.
This is just another street.
Mayor Hamilton: I certainly like that alignment a little better than what is there
now. You would have a much better access onto CR 117.
Councilwoman Watson: It depends on how much traffic you are going to put on there.
Mayor Hamilton: If it continues to grow there is certainly going to be more traffic.
Councilwoman Watson: When you open up roads like that, those type of streets do not
limit themselves to residential type traffic. You end up with trucks and that kind
of traffic.
Bill Monk: I believe as the downtown develops and we continue to have more develop-
ments in this area, we are going to need some cross streets to get the residential
traffic through to the downtown area. There is not a lot of truck traffic or busi-
nesses up and around these areas that would traverse this area. They will continue I
down CR 117, TH 5, etc.
Councilwoman Swenson:
assurance do we have
balance of that road
If we were to acquire that road site through Stellers, what
that when the time comes we are going to be able to acquire the
there?
Bill Monk: The City has no assurances, but as the property to the west develops the
western extension of lake lucy Road would be platted.
Councilwoman Swenson: What is your recommendation, Bill?
Bill Monk: We plat the right-of-way.
Councilman Geving: I think we need a show of Council hands on this because Bill
needs some direction.
Mayor Hamilton: I agree.
Councilman Geving: I agree.
Councilwoman Swenson: I agree.
Councilman Horn: I agree.
I
Councilwoman Watson: I agree.
Mayor Hamilton left at this point in the meeting.
I
I
I
Council Meeting, September 23, 1985
-15-
~ ~ PROGRAMMING UPDATE:
The City Engineer reviewed the four stages of improvements scheduled for the widening
of TH 5 including the anticipated timing for each. The improvements included a full
widening to four lanes on TH 5 between West 78th Street in Eden Prairie and CR 17 in
Chanhassen. All improvements are presently slated to be completed by 1990.
SET SPECIAL MEETING DATE:
-lake Ann/Virginia Forcemain Alternatives
-Development Framework Process
The Council discussed certain dates for a special meeting for the above two matters.
It was decided to hold the meeting on October 16, 1985 at 7:00 p.m.
BLUFF CREEK RAILROAD:
The City Engineer reported that the railroad would now be starting at an earlier
time. They will begin construction in October instead of February.
AMM (ASSOCIATION ~ METROPOLITAN MUNICIPALITIES) MEETING:
Don Ashworth reported that the AMM has extended an invitation for a meeting to be
held tomorrow, September 24th, at 7:30.
Councilman Geving moved to adjourn the meeting. Motion was seconded by Councilwoman
Watson. The following voted in favor: Acting Mayor Geving, Councilwomen Watson and
Swenson, and Councilman Horn. No negative votes. Motion carried.
Don Ashworth
City Manager
Prepared by Kathy Sundquist