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1985 11 04 I I I REGULAR CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL MEETING November 4, 1985 Mayor Hamilton called the meeting to order. to the Flag. The meeting was opened with the Pledge Members Present Councilman Horn, Councilwoman Watson, Councilwoman Swenson and Councilman Geving Members Absent None Staff Present Don Ashworth, Barbara Dacy, and Bill Monk APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Mayor Hamilton moved to approve the agenda as presented. Motion was seconded by Councilman Geving. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilwoman Watson moved to approve the following consent agenda item pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations: 1. a. RESOLUTION #85-62: Approve Resolution Revoking Conditional Use Permit for Tri-Properties, Northwest Corner of Highway 5 and County Road 117. Motion was seconded by Mayor Hamilton. Councilman Geving: Prior to the time that the attorney's final report is finalized and ready to be turned over the Carver County District Court, I would like to reguest that the item be placed before the City Council so that we can see the results of his review. The following voted in favor: Councilmen Horn and Geving. Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, No negative votes. Motion carried. MINUTES: Amend City Council minutes dated October 7, 1985 under Consider Adoption ~ the 1986 Budget, page 8, paragraph 2, Councilwoman Swenson: Two part-time employees would be less effective than one permanent employee. Amend City Council minutes dated October 7, 1985, under Consider Adoption ~ the 1986 Budget, page 7, paragraph 7, first sentence, Don Ashworth: On the park and recreation improvements, it was brought up by Councilman Geving that we needed to look to a shelter building at Lake Ann Park. Councilman Horn moved to approve the City Council minutes dated October 7, 1985 as amended. Motion was seconded by Mayor Hamilton. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. Council Meeting, November 4, 1985 -2- EVALUATION OF BOWLING CENTER CONSTRUCTION, 581 WEST 78TH STREET: Mayor Hamilton: This is a HRA item and was put on the agenda so we were informed as to what is happening. I think you have all gone through the comments that Fred Hoisington has made and they have been discussed with Bill Baden, John Dorek and Jack Henning. I went over this afternoon and talked with Bill, John and Jack and we went through each one of these one by one just to see what our recollection was of them and if there were any problems as what Mr. Hoisington perceived there to be. We will go through these one by one. HI) While the site is basically graded in accordance with the master site plan, the unpaved parking areas should be treated to minimize erosion. I believe that Jack or Bill could tell us that the material that was put down on the unpaved area is a treated material. Jack Henning: It is recycled asphalt and concrete. Fred Hoisington: We were thinking, in that case, not so much of a surface. When we first looked at the surface we weren't real sure just what was there. We were thinking more of the edges. You will see some erosion at the edges. Usually, in this community they put down a barrier or a dike of some sort. That is more of what we were thinking of in that case rather than the surface itself. Mayor Hamilton: I wasn't aware that any runoff was going to be going into a wetlands immediately. Fred Hoisington: The runoff is going to be a problem there. Mayor Hamilton: Be a problem for what? Fred Hoisington: There is no storm sewer system. That is, of course, one of the things that we recommended to use as a part of the downtown study. More on the east side you tend to have it covered better than you do on the west side. In this case what you are doing, is you sheet drained everything to ponds that already exist there. What you are doing, you had some erosion on the edges of this parking lot and they will push that material into the drainage system that exists there today. Jack Henning: That area is graded so that all of the water goes to the southern part of the parking lot. That was the natural drain before. That has to go through a bunch of tall grass and things that we didn't disturb. To put hay bales or plastic there would be very unsightly. I would think that a little bit of seed or grass on the edges next spring would be sufficient. The water is not going to run west or north, it is going to run in a southeasterly direction. I don't think that there is going to be an erosion problem through there. It is really a flat area. It just has a little slope to it. Councilman Horn: I would like to hear Bill's comments. Bill Monk: I believe the south side of the lot where the water drains to that Mr. -- Henning is alluding to, should be seeded and mulched yet this fall if at all possible so that it would come up next spring. I have been out there during a heavy rain and watched it and nothing is occurring with the surface that has been put down. There is guite a bit of water that goes off to the south. It is quite muddy and messy down there and I think that it could be cleaned up. The grass is acting as a good filter right at the moment, but I think that we really should put seed and mulch down on that southern portion of the lot to try and stabilize and do what we can to that a rea. I I I I I I Council Meeting, November 4, 1985 -3- Bill Baden: Is this on our property? Bill Monk: I am really not sure, but it was disturbed as a part of the bowling center. Councilman Geving: I think that is something that is just going to happen over time. I think it is all right. I haven't seen any big problem in there. Councilman Horn: I would go along with Bill's recommendation. Councilwoman Swenson: I would agree with that. Councilwoman Watson: I will too. Bill Baden: I guess my question is what are the plans past there. My understanding was that you didn't know what was going to happen until that road comes through. If you want us to put seed there and then tear it up next summer, I don't understand that. This is something that I didn't know about. Mayor Hamilton: I guess I fail to see what good the seed is going to do at this time or that the mulch is going to stop anything right now. But I hear we have three people who would prefer to see you put some seed and mulch on there. Bill Baden: Would somebody tell us where and how much. Mayor Hamilton: I am sure Bill would be glad to do that. The next item, H2) Improperly spaced from north and west walls; parking island was not constructed near west entrance. I don't know what improperly spaced from north and west walls is sup- pose to mean. Fred Hoisington: That refers to note number two, curbing. If you look at the building plans and the master plans that we had originally for this property, the proposal was in this "l" that there be ten feet of green space or paving or something in between the curbing and the wall and 20 feet here. The dimensions all worked out correctly to accommodate that. So the curbing in this case is all in a different location than proposed and the island in the center was never constructed. Mayor Hamilton: What island are you discussing? As I recall when we met quite some time ago, we discussed the islands and decided that none of the islands would be put in at this time for the sake of plowing. That is certainly my recollection. Fred Hoisington: That wasn't my understanding, but somebody else might have had a different understanding. Mayor Hamilton: I don't see an advantage of putting an island there at this time. We had talked about the problem with plowing in the first place and that would cer- tainly be the most difficult spot to plow. That was my recollection. You asked for the 10 foot wide space. I think you are about 10 feet from the building, right? Jack Henninq: Yes. Mayor Hamilton: With the green space and your trees on both the west wall and the north wall of Filley's, I think that was cut down some just to make that whole entrance work out better. Council Meeting, November 4, 1985 -4- Bill Baden: I don't want this to sound like this is something that we just did, as Fred has stated. This was all cleared in meetings. If you would refer to the notes of the meeting of April 15th, it was Fred who agreed that there would be no islands. We met upstairs in the conference room and went over this. We changed the grade of that area. It was way low, we were going to have steps and curbing as per this plan. We raised that elevation and it is all one level now. The area where it is 3! feet, our entry way is right there and we would have an impossible entry if it was 10 feet. It would come right out into the middle of our entry to where you couldn't enter the building there. This was all cleared with you gentlemen. I Fred Hoisington: The building plans for the design in accordance are based on the master site plans. These are their plans, not ours, they all met after we agreed to that very thing. We agreed to take all of the islands out except two. One was in front of the building and the second one was on the Kirk property. You can take all of them out, obviously. I am not going to suggest that you shouldn't, but what I am suggesting is the building plans follow the master plans - we show the islands and they left the islands out. That is the history and that is the record of that. It is up to you to do something different if you so choose. Bill Baden: You knew about the change of elevation and you knew about this, but yet you didn't know about the removal of the island. My main point is that we did not do this without talking to people from the City. This is not something that we randomly did. Councilman Horn: If I am clear on this, I believe a master plan amendment would require another review and it wouldn't be between a meeting with the City Manager. Councilwoman Swenson: I think if this Council approves the site plans, I don't I believe there is any reasonable right for anybody to change them until they come through for amendment or at least an approval. We didn't even see them on the con- sent agenda. Private meetings disturb me. Don Ashworth: I know of no meetings that occurred after the City Council reviewed this plan that included the grade change and included the statements made by Fred Hoisington. No member of City staff made any changes to this plan. Councilman Horn: Do you agree, then, that these are not in conformance with the master plan? Don Ashworth: Yes. John Dorek: From my recollection we discussed those islands that would decrease our parking by so much and would make snow plowing very difficult, and we eliminated doing it now and decided when the road came in we would then install islands in the proper places aesthetically. That is my memory of it. We wouldn't have done anything if we thought it was contrary to what we agreed upon. Don Ashworth: We did meet and we did discuss the islands and we did discuss the limited parking, but that was all in advance of presentation of that plan to the Council and to the HRA. There were two plans presented to the HRA and to the Council. One was the long-range plan that showed the islands out in the perimeter section. The other plan was exactly the one that you have in front of you here. I Whether someone walked away from that meeting ~hat occurred in advance of the Council meeting)with a different impression, I don't know. I left that meeting knowing that the island would be there and as Fred noted, the building plans, when they did come in, did show that island there. I I I Council Meeting, November 4, 1985 -5- Councilwoman Swenson: Fred, according to your investigation of this, and obviously you have done quite an extensive study of it, you have records here or in your possession or that you have seen which substantiate that these things are all in violation of the development contract that was established with the site plan that was approved by this Council, is that correct? Fred Hoisinqton: These are all things that are departures from what we looked at in the first case when we drew the plans initially and now we are evaluating what was done in light of both the building plans and the master site plan. We are just telling you, plain and simply, that there are discrepancies in there. Councilwoman Swenson: The purpose of this, as I understand it, is a result of the request from Dorek/Baden for the $200,000 loan. I guess that the recommendations the staff has given, and I would intend to agree with, is that whether this is the long range or short range, these are things that have to be done in order to comply with the directions of this Council and with what was approved by this Council. Therefore, I guess that I would say that I would be in favor of withholding the sums of money to accomplish these things (as outlined in Fred Hoisington's report of 11-1-85), be they short or long range, until such time that they are completed. I would make a motion to that affect. Mayor Hamilton: You have summarized everything pretty well I guess. So instead of going through the rest of the items, I would just say that I don't see a lot of significant items in here and I don't disagree with what you are saying that if a sum has to be withheld, I don't know how you would determine what that amount is, but something should, perhaps, be withheld to make sure that things are done that haven't been completed. Councilwoman Watson: I second Pat's motion. Councilman Gevinq: I think based on what I see here, I, too, think that the curbing could have been placed a little bit further away from the buildings as it was intended to be. The fact is that it is there. I am more concerned about filling in that space with some greenery around those trees and finishing it off if we leave it the way it is now. As far as that parking island is concerned, I do believe that the only parking that I was ever concerned about was that which is shown out in the outer parking area and the parking island is not in place near the west entrance, I think it should have been deleted from the plan to begin with because if you go down there now, now that they are in operation, I would say that would be a real problem if that parking island were there. You would find a lot of people running over the darn thing. I don't know how wide it would be and how it would be lighted. I do believe that it is not significant that it is not there. Councilwoman Swenson: We have 12 recommendations here. Maybe you have a suggestion, Don, as to how things like the lighting, which were not submitted with the plans as required and a lot of other things that are written up here that I don't think that we have to go into. But, perhaps, staff should get together and determine, as close as possible, what the cost of these installations would be. If there are to be any changes that it should come in a form of an amendment to the Council. But at the present time, my motion still stands without change. Mayor Hamilton: It is actually in a form to the HRA. It seems that the HRA is the one that says what portion of that $200,000 will be withheld. This, as I said earlier, is an informational item so that everybody would be informed as to what was happening with the total development down there and there isn't anything that the Council Meeting, November 4, 1985 -6- Council can do, other than to pass our recommendation on to the HRA that the sum of money should be paid with something withheld, pending completion of the items that staff determines their significant nature. Councilman Gevinq: I think it is important too, we made a promise to the Dorek/Baden people regarding the loan and this is strictly HRA, not the City Council. If we were to hold them up with a significant deduction here for taking care of these matters, I am afraid that they also have made some commitments that we are not aware of. Sure, there are 12 items here. I have no idea what the extent of the dollar value is. I would say that we have a commitment to Dorek/Baden to provide them with the comple- tion of our promise and that is to fulfill our promise with the loan. I am sure they are sitting there right now knowing that this loan has been pending, knowing that there are some things that have to be taken care of, and I think these are like every other major project that we have attempted in the city. There is always some hit list items, and we go through this with every construction project. I don't feel that what I see here--lighting, and some parking spaces, some islands, a sidewalk, these are not major things. Jack Henning with his crew down there could take care of most of these rather quickly. My only comment is I don't want to see the HRA and the Council hold up the loan process because these people have commitments and I know we have made a promise to them to follow through on this commitment. Councilwoman Watson: I agree with you that we made a promise. They also made promi- ses and it was what they agreed to when they signed. I guess I don't feel the same way you do either, Dale, about the fact that the parking is now 10 feet closer to the building than originally planned and that now that it is there, we should suddenly be happy with 10 feet of green space. I am not going to be happy with 10 feet of green space. The plan showed 20. You can practically park inside that building. I don't think it looks good. I will never be happy with 10 feet. They made promises to us too, and I think it was a mutual agreement. We don't have a low interest loan with every major development that comes through the City. This is a very unique situation. We will fulfill our promise, certainly, as soon as they have fulfilled theirs. That was the agreement in the first place. Mayor Hamilton: There is also such a thing as using common sense when you are doing some building. If the plan that you originally started with doesn't exactly meet or work out to be the best plan as you are going along and you need to make adjustments, I see no reason why those minor adjustments can't be made to make the whole plan more workable and work out just as well. Apparently that's what has been done here and I think it certainly looks nice down there. They haven't got the outside quite finished yet, they have worked like crazy to get the inside going and they have got that running, now they are starting to complete the outside and I think that is going to be beautiful facility outside, 10 feet or 20 feet of grass and trees, it is going to look very nice. Councilman Horn: What I would like to do, since we are making recommendations to the HRA, is I would like have the staff come back with what they feel would be reasonable compromises and what they think would be a reasonable assurance to withhold from this for the HRA meeting on Thursday night, to come up with a compromise situation. I don't think we have to withhold everything 100 percent, on the other hand, I think we need some type of reasonable recommendation. I would like staff to come back with that and what they feel would be a fair amount to cover any outstanding things that need to be done for Thursday evening. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. I I I I I I Council Meeting, November 4, 1985 -7- CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A CONTRACTOR'S YARD, CARLSON EXCAVATING, 4141 KINGS ROAD: Barb Dacy: The site is located south of and adjacent to King's Road, west of Minnewashta Parkway in the western part of the City. As you recall, in August of 1984, a zoning ordinance amendment was passed to allow a contractor's yard as a con- ditional use in the R-IA District. Also, part of the Council action was to direct staff to have all existing contractor's yards come through the conditional use permit process and that was completed last fall. The Carlson's applied last fall and the matter was tabled at the Planning Commission level so that additional site plans and information as to screening could be developed between staff and the applicant. A year has transpired and we have met with the applicant on a couple of occasions. We provided the applicant with information as to the cost of a pole barn, the cost of fencing and the applicant has now reapplied. The Planning Commission's recommen- dation at the last meeting was to recommend approval of the conditional use permit to continue contractor's yard activities subject to 1) that a structure be erected on site in conformance with the setbacks of the R-IA District by June 30, 1986; 2) all vehicles must be stored inside the structure; 3) all unlicensed vehicles, litter, and debris must be removed from the site by December 1, 1985; and 4) expansion of the contractor's yard activity beyond what has been represented in the application must be approved by a conditional use permit. Councilman Geving: I remember the applicant coming before us in the past and we had anyone who had a contractor's yard come before us and we could get a handle on planning for the community. This is the last one that came in. Had this original application come in after or before we had gone through this whole process, I think it would have been a different story. I would like to see a building out there. It is difficult for us as a Council to force an applicant to actually build a building. When throughout the discussion and the history of this application, and all we are really asking them to do is to screen the area, fence or berm the area so that it isn't unsightly. That is really what we are looking for. Whether the applicant wants to build a building or not, that is entirely a different matter. His financial position might be extremely different than it was when he made his original applica- tion. That time he wanted to build and the City wouldn't let him build. Whatever happens to this site, I would like to see it be cleaned up, I would like to see that there be an annual inspection of any contractor's yard whether it is approved as a conditional use or not. I don't get the impression right now whether or not this applicant really wants to build this facility, do you know, Barb? Barb Dacy: The applicants are here tonight. Councilman Geving: Is it your intention, Mr. Carlson, that if you were to get appro- val for a conditional use permit for this site that you would actually build a pole barn? Is that your present plan? Mr. Carlson: Yes. I live on the south side of the road. A fence or a berm would just cause a drifting problem. Councilman Geving: So your present plan is to build. I kept reading in here that you prefer to find a building and move it in there and reconstruct it. That might be hard to do. Mr. Carlson: I have been working with a fellow and he has come up with some nice buildings. Councilman Geving: If you do that, it has to come before the Council because you are going to move a building. I don't know if you would move it intact. Mr. Carlson: It would be erected. Council Meeting, November 4, 1985 -8- Councilman Geving: that you have ten. I noticed a year ago you listed five vehicles. Now you indicate Is that correct? Mr. Carlson: Yes. purposes right now. I have some that are not licensed and I am using them as storage We don't always use them. Councilman Geving: Let me ask the staff, Barb, can the City force a person who has a vehicle on their lot to have it licensed if they don't use it? Barb Dacy: Yes. An unlicensed vehicle is also in violation of the nuisance ordi- nance. If it is not being used and it is not licensed it can be considered as a junk vehicle. I believe the Commission's intent was that whenever vehicles or whatever machines, etc. are used in conjunction with the applicant's business that the ulti- mate objective is to have the building on site and to put that material inside so it cannot be seen. Sometimes people restore old vehicles without a license. Councilman Geving: My feeling, Mr. and Mrs. Carlson, is I would like to see you stay in business in Chanhassen and hopefully we can work this thing out. Councilwoman Watson: How big of a building did you hope to erect to cover these materials. Mr. Carlson: We are looking at about SO' to 60' wide and 100' - ISO' long. Mayor Hamilton: What do you do with these old cars? Mr. Carlson: The old cars do not have to be there. put on the other cars if something happens to them. We use parts off the old cars to They can go, that is no problem. Mayor Hamilton: What business are you in? Mr. Carlson: Excavating. Mayor Hamilton: So the junk cars could go, they are not part of a contractor's yard anyway. Anything that doesn't pertain to a contractor's yard should not be there. Councilwoman Swenson: I just think we have to do something because this has been delayed much too long. The other people have been told to conform and they have con- formed. I am pleased to hear that the Carlson's are ready to do something about it. I don't find the Planning Commission's recommendations at all restrictive. I just want to emphasize the intensification situation, Barbara. We want to be very sure that this does not grow. The applicant does know that any building that is moved onto the premises must be conforming to our ordinance, does he not? Barb Dacy: Yes, he does. Councilman Geving: I want to make sure that we have recent photos of this facility and this site. A part of our condition is that it will not be an expanded area. I would like to have a vehicle list, and in addition to that, pictures of the area. We have had instances in the past where this has been very helpful to us. I would also like to see another condition placed on the Planning Commission's recommendations that we do an annual review. Councilman Geving moved to approve the Conditional Use Permit #84-19 for a Contractor's Yard at 4141 Kings Road, Carlson Excavating with the following con- ditions: I I I I I I Council Meeting, November 4, 1985 -9- 1. That a structure be erected on site in conformance with the setbacks of the R-IA District and in conformance with all building code require- ments by June 30, 1986. 2. All vehicles shall be stored inside the structure. 3. All unlicensed vehicles, litter, and debris shall be removed from the site by December 1, 1985. 4. Expansion of the contractor's yard activity beyond what has been represented in this application must be approved by a conditional use permit. 5. Annual review by the City. Motion was seconded by Councilwoman Swenson. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT ~ ALLOW DENSIFIED REFUSE DERIVED FUEL FACILITIES AS A CONDITIONAL USE ~ THE P-4 DISTRICT: Mayor Hamilton: The Planning Commission reviewed this and passed it on to the City Council without comment other than to say that they thought that the subject should be studied further. I certainly agree with that. What I would like to do is appoint a committee of four people to do a rather quick but thorough study of the densified refuse derived fuel facilities. I would like to appoint a committee of Dale Geving, Pat Swenson, Bill Ryan and myself to do a study on this issue. Councilwoman Swenson moved to table this item for a period of two months so that the committee that was appointed by Mayor Hamilton (Councilwoman Swenson, Councilman Geving, Bill Ryan and Mayor Hamilton) can research this matter further. Motion was seconded by Councilman Horn. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. Councilwoman Watson: As consider such a thing in Carver County's refuge. from Hennepin County to a member of the Solid Waste Advisory Committee, Carver County that if this is going to be done, Let's solve our own problems and not be hauling be used here. if we do that it be garbage in APPROVE FINAL PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS FOR SOUTH LOTUS LAKE (PHASE II AND BOAT ACCESS: Mark Koegler: The utility improvements that are going to be involved, starting with sanitary sewer, there were two elements from the extension of the santary sewer in this project all of which were attributable to Mr. Bloomberg's development. There is an extension from this point to this point of the existing gravity line, which provi- des service to Lots 1 and 2 of Block 1. There was the additional improvement which occurred down below which would come up through the park property and then go off this direction which provides sanitary sewer service to the balance of the Bloomberg property as well as this Lot 1 and Block 3, which was added to the final plat. So the sanitary sewer is put in entirely for the benefit of the residential development itself. None of the the costs, therefore, are attributable to the park. Looking at the streets, the streets break down into a couple of major segments. There are two different street patterns. With the park, the paving that is there will be part of the grant. South Shore Drive coming in is a 31 foot, back to back street. The Hill Council Meeting, November 4, 1985 -10- Street improvement coming on with the curve that is put on is a 18 foot wide bitu- minous street, which will tie into the existing street segments. The storm sewer that comeS down through the project, that system is identically the same thing that you have seen previous meetings. There is a collection system that starts on Hill Street and brings the water down, we pick it up coming off the parking lot into a detention pond in this area, the water is eventually transmitted through the storm sewer pipe which does contain the sump catch basins down to another pond, which even- tually veers to an outlet and discharge into Lotus Lake. The only other major improvement that is involved is the project of the watermain portion. The watermain is being done soley for the benefit of the residential development. We are tying to the existing watermain at this portion. There is no park need for the water itself. RESOLUTION #85-63: Mayor Hamilton moved the adoption of a resolution approving the plans and specifications for Phase I of South Lotus Lake and the Boat Access as pre- pared by Van Doren, Hazard, Stallings and authorizing the solicitation of bids. Motion was seconded by Councilman Horn. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. HIGHWAY 7 CORRIDOR STUDY FUNDING REQUEST: Barb Dacy: I continue to believe there is a purpose for the study. I name the three major purposes that I see as being important to Chanhassen. The breakdown between the cities is fairly equitable. You may have noticed in the paper with Shorewood, because of some of their industry they want to look a little bit further into how much they should pay based on some of the studies that they have already conducted in their community. So their amount is not final yet. But I believe the proposed por- tion for Chanhassen is reasonable. Mayor Hamilton: I have one question about this whole thing, in your second paragraph it says the RFP to be distributed to prospective consultants to prepare a corridor study for Highway 7 link between Trunk Highway 101 and the Chanhassen western border. I would like to find out from the state just what the plans are for Trunk Highway 101 for the future. They have done some surfacing on it this year, I am sure, because of the pressure from the track, but are they going to fix the road up or are they con- tinue to tell us that it is a temporary state aid highway and want to turn it into a local street or what. I have a hard time spending $5,000 to have a study done on an intersection with the major highway when we don't know what is going to happen to TH 101. We have been asking them that for years, and I am not sure they will give us an answer now, but I would like to ask them again. Barb Dacy: Obviously, that intersection is going to be a part of the study. The major focus will be the Highway 7 intersections and travel shed characteristics. Are you saying that you would prefer to hold the funding until you have a better idea of what is going to happen to TH 10l? Mayor Hamilton: I would sure like to know what is going to happen to TH 101. If they want us to pay $5,000 for a study that includes a road in our community that the state very seldom looks at or will spend a dime on, are they going to fix it up now or do they still want to make it a local street like they have been saying for the last several years? I I Don Ashworth: We might have a chicken and egg situation in that they will come back I saying "We would like to do the study to get an estimate as to the number of cars that will be going on TH 101." The study could provide us with the statistics that we need to have them either repair TH 101 or to make sure that they in fact upgrade TH 101. I I I Council Meeting, November 4, 1985 -11- Councilman Gevinq: Don't you think it is kind of funny, we are going to go through and upgrade TH 101, we already have down on the south. In a year or so we are going to be upgrading and extending Highway 5 to four lanes and now we are talking about the other end of it, which is on the Highway 7 end of it. You have upgraded both ends of it and done nothing about anything in the middle. I think the Mayor is right on with his comment because there must be some major interchanges that are going to happen to TH 101 and they are going to be spending some money on both Highway 7 and Highway 5. They don't seem to be doing anything in between. What bugs me about these types of proposals is that they are tending to push these costs back on the cities. We never saw this several years ago. When they did a study we never knew about it. This is really turning around, and it's like if we don't agree to pay for it the study doesn't get done. Councilwoman Swenson: In any discussions, Barbara, has there been any conversation about the extension of Town Line Road? Because that has come up frequently. That would have a tremendous bearing on that. Mayor Hamilton: That has been approved. Barb Dacy: We have accomplished a goal in that we have developed a draft RFP and the details as far as what's going to happen to Town Line Road or its impact onto Highway 7 or the future of TH 101. That is one of the objectives that the consultants will come back with. The committee is trying to establish whether or not we want to study this particular road or not. Councilwoman Swenson: So you need a study in order to determine whether you want to make a study? Barb Dacy: If the members of the communities do not want to participate, then we won't have a corridor study. Councilwoman Swenson: I have a problem with this because I see so many variables coming in here with the Town Line Road. When Town Line Road comes in, that will actually exclude us from the study all together because we really cut off at Town Line Road. Mayor Hamilton: It is my understanding that the Town Line Project has been approved. Councilwoman Swenson: The purpose of this study then is to find out what ought to be done between Highway 7 around the "S" curve and down Town Line Road to Chanhassen. My problem is we stop right at Town Line Road. Mayor Hamilton: The study is Highway 7 and 101. Barb Dacy: And Highway 7 west from Highway 41 west of the Chanhassen border is within the limits. I understand your frustration with perpetual bureaucracy, but I am afraid that if we do not participate then they will just say Chanhassen doesn't care. Mayor Hamilton: I don't think that is what we are saying. We are merely saying that we would like some answers to what's the future of Town Line Road, where does 62 come into the picture and where does that hook up going west, and what is going to happen with TH 101. We are just asking some questions. It's not that we don't want to par- ticipate and be a part of any transportation problems that are occurring in our area, but we would like some answers. Council Meeting, November 4, 1985 -12- Councilman Gevinq: I think we need to add to B.-(Scope of Services) to include several things that we are talking about. Get your scope of services in line with the several comments that were made here in terms of traffic coming off of TH 101. Can you work that into item #4 or create a new item. You can change this, right? This isn't the scope of services. Barb Dacy: Yes, I can relay your concerns to the Met Council, but as well, the con- sultant will have to meet with each individual municipality, and for us that will include myself and most likely the engineer and we can verbally translate your con- cerns as well as the impacts onto Chanhassen. Councilman Gevinq: 10 or modify one of traffic counts. The only thing I want to add is that you either add it as number the others, identify the traffic impact needs based on the TH 101 BUDGET AMENDMENT-RESOLUTION #85-64: Councilman Geving moved the adoption of a reso- lution approving a budget amendment for 1986 to include payment of $5,000 for the Highway 7 Corridor Study. Motion was seconded by Councilwoman Watson. Councilman Horn: I, too, am concerned about the fact that cities have to be kicking in for all these studies. I am also concerned about the formula that was used to calculate the $5,000. It seems strange to me that if you look at the 1980 trips generated, Excelsior contributed 29 percent. If you look at the year 2000 they contributed 18 percent and these figures were based on the year 2000 data. They say in here that there is anomaly and there will be a calculation as to why that hap- pened. I would like to know what that is. I Barb Dacy: He explained that to me at the meeting and at this point I cannot recall I what he said. Councilman Horn: It really doesn't seem reasonable. If you looked at todays, we contribute 17 percent and Excelsior contributes 29 percent that they would pay $4,500 to the study and we would pay $5,000. According to this, they were the highest con- tributor today of any of the municipalities involved. Councilman Gevinq: Don't you think that this is because the City of Excelsior is really only one square mile. I don't see where they are going to generate many more trips than what they already have. I would say, based on the expansion in Shorewood and Chanhassen and not a great deal of expansion expected in Excelsior, there could be some reason for that. Councilman Horn: But it says they increase only marginally. If you look at the number of trips, it decreases by about 20 percent. Mayor Hamilton: Perhaps, Barb should clarify that question, too. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. Councilman Geving: I think this is one of the things that people in the northern part of our community should know about that there is this kind of planning taking place. I would like to see some news coverage somehow get up to the northern end of Chanhassen either through the South Shore News or the Sailor or something. Barb Dacy: Michael Krause has been attending each meeting and there has been articles. I I I I Council Meeting, November 4, 1985 -13- DOWNTOWN CLEAN-UP ACTIVITIES: Councilman Geving stated that he would like to have the Council receive a list of people that have received summons to District Court because of failure to respond to the letters that were sent out by the attorney's office. This way when a Council member receives a call from one of them they know who they are talking to and why that person is upset. Councilman Geving also stated that he would like to see the content of the letter that was sent out to these individuals, and also try to work out, with these people, something so that they can clean up their act and get what- ever their problem is cleaned up so that they don't have to face District Court and have a fine imposed on them. He stated that before final action takes place he would like to see something coming back to the City Council. Councilman Geving questioned if something would be available this evening. Don Ashworth stated that he would follow up on this issue and get information from the attorney's office. UPDATE Q!:!. DOCK ISSUE Q!:!. SOUTH LOTUS LAKE PROPERTY: Mayor Hamilton: This is just clarification that has been received from the DNR. Barb Dacy: If the Council wants the owner of the blue house to rights make sure that is enforced in the development contract. owner reserved a slip on one of the two docks. retain riparian I believe that the Mayor Hamilton: I believe that is a similar type thing that we just did at Leach's Addition. If we did it once we should be able to do it again. Councilman Horn: It isn't quite the same, is it? This is not a lot that is off the lake that's retaining rights, these are lots that go down to the lake. Barb Dacy: The blue house is a non-riparian lot. Councilman Horn: It has lakeshore though, doesn't it? Barb Dacy: No, it won't after the boat access. Councilman Horn: So he is losing his lakeshore? Barb Dacy: That is correct. Councilman Gevinq: Does the person that lives in the blue house own that house? Barb Oacy: No, he is a renter from Mr. Bloomberg. Councilman Geving: There is a difference then, I think. Councilman Horn: Except that as a ow"ner of the property, the owner of the property loses the riparian rights. Councilman Geving: Except that Mr. Bloomberg really owns all of the property and he is developing the entire area. When I first read this I took the side of the person who might own that blue house thinking that person is losing a right that they have had for a long time until I realized, maybe not. If he just a renter, Mr. Bloomberg has redeveloped his whole property, but he should be given a slip on one of the docks. Council Meeting, November 4, 1985 -14- SIGN APPLICATIONS: Councilwoman Swenson stated that she would like to see the sign applications on the consent agenda. Don Ashworth stated that staff is trying to provide information to the Council. He stated that the ordinance doesn't call for it to go to the the Council at all and that staff decided that each application would be submitted to the Council. Councilwoman Swenson stated that if it was placed on the consent agenda it might eli- minate a few problems. Councilman Geving moved to adjourn the meeting. Motion was seconded by Mayor Hamilton. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. Don Ashworth City Manager Prepared by Kathy Sundquist I I I