4 Roundhouse Renovation Project CTrYOF
PO Box 147
Chanha.~n, MN 55311
Administration
Pflo~e: 952.227.1100
Fax: 952227.1110
Building Inspections
Ptlmle: 952.227.1180
Fax: 952.227.1190
Engineering
Phone: 952.227.1160
Fax:. 952.227.117'0
Finance
Ptme: 952.221.1140
Fa~ 952.227.1110
Park & Recreation
Phone: 952.227.1120
Fax: 952227.1110
RecreatJo~ Center
2310 Cou~ Boulevard
Phone:. 952227.1400
Fax: 952.227.1404
Plennlng &
Natural Resources
Phone: 952.227.1130
Fax: 952.227.1110
Public Wodm
1591 Park Road
Phone: 952.227.1300
Fax: 952.227.1310
Senior Center
Phone: 952.227.1125
Fa~ 952.227.1110
MRMORANDUM
TO:
FROM:
DATE:
Todd Gerhardt, City Manager
Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
May 7, 2003
SUBJ:
Roundhouse Renovation Project, Budget Amendment,
Award of Bid
Last fall the City Council directed staff to solicit proposals to construct a new roof
for thc roundhouse and refinish the exterior. I spent a good deal of time over the
winter months communicating with a variety of general contractors and painting
contractors. Truth be told the '~Roundhouse" project is not very at~vc to
contractors. The project is small, unique and does not provide the kind of profit
margins available in other work. However, I was successful in securing one
proposal each for the roofing and re-finishing components. Both of these
proposals are from reputable contractors with local representation and proven
track records in these areas of work.
Thc first task to be completed is the stripping of thc exterior lead based paint and
application of a semi-transparent stain/se~er. The firm of Swanson and
Youngdale represented by Chanhassen resident Doug Rynda will complete this
work for the sum of $16,755. Their proposal includes cleaning and repainting all
tension rods, all necessary lead testing required by thc State of Minnesota and
proper disposal of all contaminmed materials.
Thc second task to be completed is thc removal of the existing roof ~,
construction of a new roof structure, sheeting and wood shingles. Tom Diethclm,
Builders of Carver, proposes to complete this work for the sum of $20,000 plus
materials. Mr. Diethclm's material estimate is $6,300. A pic0.n'e of thc Carver
water tower restored by Mr. Diethelm's company is attached to this ~
These individual quotes total:
Lead base paint stripping, disposal and refinishing $16,755.00
Web Site Roof demolition and m-construction $20,000.00
www~.c~lms~n.mn.us
Roofing materials $6,300.00
Total $43,055.00
The Clly of Chanhassen · A growing community with clean lakes, quality schools, a channing do~mtown, thriving business, winding trails, and b~u. dJful parks. A O~ea place to live, work, and play.
Todd Gerhardt
May 7, 2003
Page 2
The original budget approved as a part of the 1997 Park Referendum was
Approximately $15,000 was expended on the preparation of plato, specifications, materials
testing and engineering associated with a 2000/2001 bidding of a project to completely refurbish
the building. At the time, competitive bids were solicited and a low bid of $119,372.00 from M-
Con Construction was rejected by the City Council. Now, coming up on seven years past the
referendum, it is staff's recommendation that we move forward with these i .mprovements. The
alternative of demolishing the roundhouse and replacing it with a concrete slab and post and roof
type park shelter does not have nearly the appeal of preserving a historic landmartc
Costs to demolish and replace the structure total approximately:
Olson Construction Quote to demolish and backfill
Construction of new concrete slab and post and roof park shelter
$17,920
$30,000
'Total $47,920
RF~OIVIIVffiNDATION
It is reco~n~ that the City Council amend the City's 2003 Park acquisition and
development budget to include $43,055.00 to acxx~mmodate the exterior refinishing and
roofing of the roundhouse in Roundhouse Park and accept the quotes from Swanson and
Youngdale and Tom Diethelm Builders to complete this work.
ATrACHMF~NTS
.
2.
3.
4.
,
,
Swanson and Youngdale Quote
Tom Diethelm Quotes
Demolition Quote from Olson Consmwtion
Nov. 25, 1951 Minneapolis Sunday Tribune Article featuring Ben Lane and The
Roundhouse
City Council Minutes dated October 28, 2002.
Report from Todd Hoffmau to Todd Gerhardt dated October 17, 2002 including
attachments
Photo of restored City of Carver Water tower
C:
Deanna Bunkleman
Ed Kling
Janet Carlson
FRO]d 1/1
(~D) 05. 07' 03 09'26/8T. 09'26~0, :3561275152 P
Commercial & It~dustn'al Peirrdng Contractors
& Youngdale
· wmmen & 'V'omn~lale, Im~,
6565 Were: 23rd Street
P.O. B~ 2~)70
Mlnneepolla, Mlnnm=ta 5542E, iX]70
Phone: ~9_lM~
Fa: 95Z545,4435
Sales Fac 952 52~1{~!5
May 7, 2003
Mr. Todd Hoffman
City of Chanhessen
P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 56317
Re'.
Roundhouse Pavilion Exterior Renovation
Chanhassen, Minnesota
Dear Todd:
In accordance with our walk-through, we propose to furnish labor, materials end equipment
to strip the exterior lead based paint and apply a stain sash/sealer, for the sum of
$16,755.00.
This proposal includes:
· Cleaning and repalnting all tension rods.
· All nece6sary lead testing required by The State of Minnesota.
· Proper disposal of all contaminated materials.
· Performing all work during normal business hours, Monday through Friday.
If you have any questions regarding this matter, please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely,
~SWANSON ~E, INC.
Doug Rynda
lib
i
,. ?../t.'"'"l
TOM DIET~LM
BUH~DERS
GENERAL CONTRACTORS
448-3589
14355 Cty Rd. 45 · Carver, Minnesota 55315
..t
..
discove~d. Naturally, this estima~ cannot cover such contingm~cim. Malza'ial
This work authorized by
TOTAL
' S.TAX
GRD.TOTAL
~ TO 'M '"
· DIETI-! ELM
BUILDERS
GENERAL CONTRACTORS
448-3589
14355 Cty'Rd. 45 · Carver, Minnesota 55315
This work authorized by
S .TAX
GRD.TOTAL
Olson Construction Co., Inc.
6970 Inwood Road
Cologne, MN 55322
(952)448-6674/1.#(9~2)448-5289
June 18, 200 l
City of Chanhassen
% Dale
474-4128/Ftt474-1687
Re: Quote
Demolition and removal of round building structure at park on
Minnewashta Parkway. Fill basement ama to match existing grade.
$17,920.00
. ,'~',.. ~'-: · .
.
m~e~
[l~r~, ~ by no m~ ~ne
. d~ the weU. ~thev, Irs ~U~.
~ up f~ t~ ~r.
~ho pu~ it ~e~ ~
[~ F. ~~ Columbus a~
~ h~d ~f ih~l~
~w~ter
.
He 'has 'qet
most.al )tls
;
the i~cl oi n llender thred ed
rbpe or perched~.mtop redwood
i atnves or steel plite.
~. He k, he thkkst one of thodm
j lndlvldunls kin Without the ~
I o/ heigh~ 'which afflicts mJr~
: pe~q~e, som~ af whom quake ]llrn
-w or.kinE ~ou~a at Wahmo, Mi,m_;_ ~
up eh whet. hey~ · coultl~, of
stt~s up 'on · .kdder:. lane Is
· .calm man.' · thtlbe~t~ ~
.=
cn be t sUshU~ dizvt~ ~
eace. He does restively Uttle
other buatneu .in Florla-- ·
neither of his sons would work
alolt, ttoth, however, tlso luked
that Imu' ol height, ud u kids
~ running errands ~or a~rltl
Be/ore he lmew it,
i~i. ~ GI~ O[ 'A~ AliD .:.-
'Act Promptly...} '.'
.. .
M,;.cMilperrw,,y the b --d/- . '
__ threir it. out the hole.
· ' '~: . . . ~d up ~ tm~
zee ~. ~ ~ ~.'~-~ ~~': - '1 ~' ~ a.~ ~ ~ h~[-
. - -. ..... ..- ' . .:: ' ' Im~~~. - l
........
~.~, .. .
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
UPDATE ON ROUNDHOUSE RENOVATION PROJECT~ DEANNA BUNKELMAN.
Public Preaent:
Name Address
Deanna Bunkelman 4191 Red Oak Lane
Ed Kling 4169 Red Oak Lane
Linda Scott 4031 Kings Road
Amy O' Shea 7475 Crocus Court
Mayor Jansen: I don't know if we have a staff report or we just go straight to Deanna.
Todd Hoffman: Unless there's any questions on the staff report, I simply prepared a time line of
the city's involvement in Roundhouse Park since it's acquisition- If you want to ask any
questions. Beyond that I think we should go directly to the report.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. We did have several documents that were here at our places when we
came down this evening so we have not had an opportunity to read through these, but why don't
I, if council's comfortable, I'll go ahead and open this up and have Deanna come up and address
this, unless you have any questions for staff at this poinL
Councilman Ayotte: Just the one. How much have we expended of the amount that we, I think it
Was.
Councilman Peterson: 40.
Councilman Ayotte: So we have, there's been no other expenditure beyond that 40K?
Councilman Peterson: No, we haven't spent 40.
Councilman Ayotte: The alloc, ation was 40K. Has there been any expenditure?
Todd Hoffman: It's right around the $15,000 mark for the professional services that the city has
paid for to date.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay. There's nothing been going
Todd Hoffman: For 12 to 18 months.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Anything else?
Councilman Ayotte: No ma'am.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Is Deanna here this evening? Hi.
Deanna Bunkelman: Yeah, I apologize for not getting those documents to you sooner. But what
I plan to do is.
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
Mayor Jansen: Oh Deanna, just for the record, if you could state your name and address.
Deanna Bunkelman: Oh sorry. Deanna Bunkelman, 4191 Red Oak Lane.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you.
Deanna Bunkelman: What I plan to do, I left everyone with two documents. The round house
renovation planning document, which you first saw in November of 2001, and throughout it
you'll see ail of the underlines are updates to thai, And then you'll have another document called
round house expenses and donations, and what I plan to do is just give you higiflights of what all
of those underscores are throughout the document
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: So we're here to give you an update on what we've been up to this past year
in regards to the round house. It's been quite a roller coaster of a year. We've had upswings and
down swings and at times we were to the point of almost giving up. In December we received the
contract from the city which had several variations from the conversations that I had with the City
Attorney and Todd Hoffman. Those being the completion dam of October, 2002, because our
originai plan says dated October, 2003. So I pretty much assumed that was a typo and I made
Todd aware of that. Also there was a new clause that we needed to raise $25,000 of funds or in
kind matefiais to be raised prior to any work commencing on the site, and those funds needed to
be raised by March, which to us was not really feasible given the turn in the economy. Other
members of the task force were also very concerned about the clause of being held harmless.
That's where we were actually going to be the contractors if we had started a non-pmfit~ At this
point we were still in the process of filing to be a non-profit, but it had not yet been finalized. So
then over the next several months we contacted insurance agents, lawyers, stale agencies, and
other non-profit groups to get advice on how to proceed because of thai harmless clause, and the
message was pretty unanimous from all of them that it did not make sense for us to set up a non-
profit for a short term project such as this, and that we should pursue other sponsorship. So then
we contacted the Minnesota and Carver County Historical Societies to see if we could gain
sponsorship there. We worked with them for several months in the spring and early summer with
the conclusion that the structure is not historical since it had been moved from it's original place.
We continued looking for ideas for sponsorship and did very limited fund raising at that point.
We were pursuing several large donors, one being a large corporation with history with the
railroads, but once we learned the true history of the macram, we no longer went, pursued that
company any longer, because we were trying to tie the history that we believed about the
structure to the company because the company had a long history with the railroads. But then
Mr. Chuck Lane, who is the son of Ben Lane. He's the one that actually helped put the structure
in place in 1947. He called me over the summer because he was up visiting for, he comes up
every summer and he saw our flyer on the ~ and he was actually, he gave me an update
that the structure was actually a suspended water tower for the town of Woodlake, Minnesota
which is west of here. It was never a water tower aiong the railroad. So we're finally truly
learning the tree history of what the structure is about Chuck plans to send pictures and more
information and he also has an article from the Minneapolis paper which feahlres the buildings,
so we're waiting to receive that information from him, We also started to rethink how the
building should be renovated to lower the cost of the renovation and some of the main decisions
around that are, not to do any plumbing at this point or put a restroom in. That's aiways
something that can be done at a future state if need be. Not to install the upper row of windows
under the roof line, which I know Todd had brought up a while ago that there's a lot of cost with
that, and there is, and we, to keep this more economical don't feel like that's needed. We also
13
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
would like to keep the second floor to lower the cost of renovating and also make the buildi~
more usable. At this point community education art classes are being planned and we already
have an instructor who's interested. He was reviewing the building. He was inside and when we
went up to the second level he was quite mazed when he looked out at Lake Minnewashta from
the second floor and he just found how inspiring it could be for art classes. The second floor
would be locked at the bottom of the staircase except for c~rnrnll/lity ed type classes or other pre-
determined needs for safety and supervision reasons because I know there are concerns with a
two story building and having a staircase. Another decision was not to build a basemenL It was
re-checked and it's in good, sound condition so would remain and we thought it could be used for
storage such as picnic tables, but it would not be heated. A few other key decisions. The building
would remain locked except when in use as a warming house under supervision or being used for
community ed classes or rented for personal use, and the upper level would be locked as I said,
except for specified classes. We also had some thoughts about starting a tradition called
Roundhouse Days, and would plan that around when Chuck Lane would be in town, just so that
he could be there to talk about the history. And it would also be considered a fund miser event
with pony rides and games and prizes, food, potentially a silent auction- Our recommendation on
a liability safety plan would be that the city would contract for all the larger, higher risk items
such as the asbestos lead paint removal, which was part of the contract. Roofing, electrical, the
removal and disposal of the roof; the leveling of the first floor and any other items deemed to be
too high risk for volunteers. All volunteers that would be on site we would need to sign a liability
waiver similar to many other volunteer activities such as Habitat for Humanity. At that time the
volunteers, or at the time the volunteers are in place, we would assume a city employee may need
to be present, which could either be volunteer or pay time. And we already have some of that
cost in our expenses if you look at our expenses and donations to date. The expenses and
donations is a document that I gave you, and we'd have to discuss. You can see there's some
pretty wide ranges on some of those costs, so it'd have to be determined how to move forward.
For example the asbestos and lead paint removal. They can actually stabilize the outside of the
building at the lower cost, and what that means is they have special paint that they paint over, and
then you would just paint it the nicer looking color than what they would put on. The higher cost
would be, they would actually remove everything and have the natural wood show. So that's just
an example of what some of the differences and the high end, low end costs are. So depending on
the decisions on some of those ranges. If you look at the donations that we've raised to date,
we've almost raised half the funds for the restoration- And there's also many malapped
opportunities for us to receive more in kind material contributions. We have a lot of those listed
as potential on our expense donations documenL And then I just had, if the decision is to
continue our efforts I'd like to suggest th~ we schedule ongoing upda~ to the city via bi-
monthly meetings with the city manager and Todd so more timely upda~ are given. I know
Todd and I have been trying to get an update scheduled and to you guys since July, so it took us
almost 3 months to get on the seheduie and give you guys an UlXtate. You'll find other
miscellaneous updates like I said through the documents and they're highlighted with underscore
text. And again I apologize for not getting that to you sooner so I have my e-mail address and my
phone number on the document so you can feel f~ee to read that, and update me or ask me any
questions that you need after, you know if you have further questions. And then I also, Ed Kling
and Jan Carlson are here so I don't know ff there's an opportunity to, I don't know if they have
any additional things to say but, otherwise I'm open to questions.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Council, any questions for Deanna?
Councilman Ayotte: After you, and you went a little fast for me. I'm hearing impaired so you
may have said this and I may not have heard you. With some of the changes that you're talking
towards, does that reduce the usable square footage7
14
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
Deanna Bunkelman: No. It would actually give us more usable square footage.
Councilman Ayotte: So it would be more usable. So what's.
Deanna Bunkelman: Yeah. Excuse me, the original plans were to remove the second floor and
it's not because it's not structurally sound. What they were planning to do is remove the second
floor and then put the big row of windows around the top to make it more aesthetically pleasing.
So our suggestion is to keep the second floor and you're going to have more usable, yeah.
Councilman Ayotte: So what would be about the cost per square foot then? What's your square
footage going to be based on your plan now? Usable square footage.
Deanna Bunkelman: I guess I didn't calculate it down to thc square footage. I was concentrating
more on the different expenses.
Councilman Ayotte: Could you take a guess at that at some point Todd and maybe give us a
heads up down the road. I don't want to fie up people's time but we ought to equate cost per
square foot based on what you're projecting. The other question is, when you say a donation
between $2,500 and $5,000, is that because you've got building material you're not sure' of what
the value is but you're putting it between $2,500 and $5,000? Is tha~
Deanna Bunkelman: That's because some of the building ~ will be donation and others
will be at cost, and depending on what building materiah we're requesting, they'll either go all
the way up to $5,000 and cap it.
Councilman Ayotte: But you do have the donation in hand?
Deanna Bunkelman: Exactly.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay. Is there, and I don't remember because it's been a while, do we have
an environmental base line for this building in place?
Councilman Peterson: What's that mean?
Councilman Ayotte: Well when you have a building, you've got to do an EBS, Environmental
Baseline Survey, so you benchmark where the environmental concerns are. Do we have an EBS
in place and with the time that's gone on, has that been altered and do we have to re-issue another
one?
Todd Gerhardt: Todd, do we have a professional document from Braun or any professional
assessment firm7
Todd Hoffman: We have an assessment of the asbestos and the lead base paint.
Councilman Ayotte: I understand that, and over time if; sometimes they have to be re-certified.
Do we have a concern for that?
Todd Hoffrnan: I'll checlc I don't believe so.
Councilman Ayotte: That's something we should check.
15
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
Deanna Bunkelman: Okay. Because I do have that document and I don't know fiit's...
Councilman Ayotte: I understand but over time an EBS can go kitty whompus, as a technical
term. Kitty whompus. I don't know how to speU it. And I didn't catch it, is this a historical site
or no? You said something about historical and I didn't.
Deanna Bunkelman: The Minnesota Historical Society does not consider it a historieai site as far
as, because it's been moved fxom it's original smlcture. As we're learning more about the current
history, I don't know what, our History Chair isn't here tonight so I'm not sure. As we learn
more if it will.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay. So my only concern is that we're around the same cost per square
foot discussions we were earlier. It sounds like you're to the better probably now since you've
got more square footage, and whether or not we have an EBS issue and that the donations are
solid. It's just that they're dependent on which direction we go.
Deanna Bunkelman: Right.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Jansen: Any other questions for Deanna? No? Okay. Thank you. Do you want to hear
from the other project volunteers? Do you have anything you'd like to share, you're welcome to
come forward to the podium.
Ed Kling: Thank you.
Mayor Jansen: Good evening.
Ed Kling: Good evening Mayor Jansen and Council members. My name's Ed Kling. I live at
4169 Red Oak Lane. I guess Deanna did a really good job of explaining where we've been with
the project over the last year and probably the biggest thing that I eau see as just looking at the
project and what has transpired over the last year. We've had probably the most eventful year
that any of us have experienced in our lives, at least for myself. Undoubtedly. You know and
with the economic changes, we've had to re-evaluate the program or project and adapt to that so
that's why we've eliminated some of the different dements to the project. The windows on the
top and over the year we've noticed that through these economic downmms and hard times, there
have been, there is still quite a bit of positive afl~xtde towards the round house and through the
year we were looking at, you know adapting to the different changes that we had to, with some of
the considerations for building and some of the considerations for the city. And one of the things
that we were looking at was raising money, and so we focused on getting like kind materials
raised, but we didn't really focus a lot of cash beco_--~e the economic, you know when we're going
to go out and look for cash, we're going to look for cash. We're going to ask for donations, and
that's the type of thing, I've been in sales all my life. It's the kind of deal where it's a one call
close. You go and you ask for cash and you get the cash. If you ask 2-3 times, you know it's not
going to work. So that's one thing we haven't really focused on is that is getting money raised.
We will look at like kind materials and we've been able to aecomm~ the $25,000 minimum
that the city is looking for. Since this time over the last year we've had probably 5 or 6 families
move in to this White Oak, I think it's an extension of White Oak Lane which is just adjacent to
the park. It's on the other side of the park. Actually it's fight on the north side of the park, and a
lot of these families that have moved in have asked about the, you know they've seen the building
and they've wondered what is happening with the building and we've told them and these are
16
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
through neighborhood block parties and these types of functions. And these people have said thru
they're very interested in the project and that they would, you know we kind of joke about iL
Would you like to donate some cash towards it and they said that they have. So that's one more
option that we have, and starting from the baseline of the like kind of $25,000 contributions in
materials and labor, we still have a very optimistic outlook towards the projecrt and that would be
to get cash to help drive the project forward so looking at it from that aspect, we're very
optimistic as to the completion of the project, and I guess that's all I had to add.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Any quesfiom for Ed? Okay.
Councilman Peterson: I think this may be the only question that we've talked about at the last
council meeting is, is this has extended longer than any of us, yourselves and ourselves included,
than we would have wanted it to. I mean would you guys feel comfortable with us setting a
deadline that if it's, if you don't have substantial completion done by X date that we all walk
away friends? I mean there's a point where we're going to have to say we have to do something
and make a decision. I don't know whether that's tonight or not but.
Ed Kling: Right. Well we want to see the project move forward. Obviously if we're going to be
involved in it we don't want to, you know we've got our lives to live too and we want to see this
thing be completed. I think the thing that we're looking at is, is it a doable projecO What do we
need to do the project? The city has been really good as far as helping us outline and helping us
with being motivated to have a plan and getting a plan in place and we've done that and we've
done a very good job I feel as far as where we're ~ The last year has thrown us a tremendous
curve ball, and we're still coming Out with a lot of interest and wha~ we want to do is we want to
see the project get completed. I think what we need to do is continue on with what we're doing
as far as getting the steps that we need to get in place and we've got a lot of things in place right
now. I don't think there's anything stopping us with getting this project completecL Giving us a
deadline, can we get it done? Anybody that's been involved with construction knows that
deadlines are very tough to meet. When I had my house built in Chanhassen they said they'd
have it done in 3 months. We had it done in 6 months and we spent 6 months with my wife's
parents. It was a long 6 months. But we got it done and we're in and we're glad that we're here.
And so that's what I'm saying. We can get the project done and we're much more optimistic now
than we were because we scaled the project back. It's going to take less time because we have
less construction to do on the projec'c We're basically going to just renovate wha~ we have and
we're not going into any elaborate renovation so that's going to help us get the project done
sooner so as far as getting the project done by a specific date, I don't know if that's going to
really accomplish anything other than allowing us to be, allowing that to be a pr~-cursor to even
going ahead with the project. I know we can get the project done because it's been pared back
and it's much more manageable at this point. And we can do the project so without any other
encumbrances, you know I say that we go ahead with the project and that we will get it done.
Mayor Jansen: Anything else?
Councilman Ayotte: Just something that you said that triggered another thought and going back
to something, De, anna's comments. No plumbing is what's been decided.
Ed Kling: Right.
Councilman Ayotte: Will the change in the team, the committee view of things require us to do
something in addition at that site? Additional latrines, reslxooms, whatever, on site. Does that
cause us to go by the change then? Okay, I just wanted to ask.
17
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
Ed Kling: That doesn't mean that we wouldn't want to at some point try to raise funds for that,
and that's I think something that ! think we would like to see. But we're doing what we can to
make the project work fight now so we're being realistic. At this point. Thank you very much.
Mayor Jansen: Thank yom Is there anyone else that would like to comment on this issue?
Mayor Jansen: I actually was out in this neighborhood this weekend and the solid me~sag~ flint is
being communicated by everyone who has to look at this, every time they drive in and out of the
neighborhood is do somethin~ They've been waiting for, you know I'm being quoted 6 years.
We've certainly been evaluating it this time through what has become almost 2 years. So I guess
what I am looking for throughout, through this process here tonight is a drop dead date where
something has to occur at least to the exterior of this building so that it's not sitting there as an
eyesore for all of these residents to have to have the reminder that we've yet to do anything and if
anything it's representing to them a lack of concern and appreciation for their quality of life in
the, you know they're seeing it as de-valuing their homes, having this sitting there untouched. So
as we go through our discussions, wherever we're going to end up here tonight, I am assuming
we are way too late to try to address the exterior of this building this year, but we need a definite
date early spring I would say that the exterior of the building would need to have something done
for the sake of the residents. I think we are being remiss to let it sit there any longer the way that
it looks and compromising their appreciation of the city and what we can do for them. But with
that I'll look to council then for comments on where we are currently. We obviously have a
change in the scope of the project Oh, let me as~ Todd, did you have an opportunity to take a
look at the planning document and the changes then?
Todd Gerhardt: This is the first chance I've had to look at the document. Roger hasn't seen it. I
think she just handed this out tonight so we've not seen it.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. So you would need an opportunity to then go through this as well as our
conversations around the contract signing, correct? Were we waiting for something back?
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, I think Deanna has outlined in her planning document here some of the
modifications she'd want to see in the renovation contracts, and Todd, Roger and myself need to
go through that and make a recommendation to the council for modifying it.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. So keep that in mind as we're having our conversations. Council,
comments.
Councilman Ayotte: The exterior.
Mayor Jansen: If you wouldn't mind for the sake of the audience.
Councilman Ayotte: I'm sorry. I apologize. I'm tired. The exterior does have a potential safety
issue because of the asbestos so the capsulation is something not only from the aesthetic
standpoint but also I would suspect safety wise, but since we don't have the EBS close in and
we're not tracking it, which concerns me, we should be aware of whether or not there'd further
degradation. I'd agree with the Mayor that we probably need to put a suspense date on the
exterior just from a standpoint of not only the aestheti~ but also the safety so I'd go with that, I
don't, I would look for staff recommendation and input ~ I've had a chance to take a look see
as to whether or not them is in fact a safety issue, and if there is in fact a safety issue that would
accelerate the need to address the exterior in due course. The good news is is that if we make it
18
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
aesthetically pleasing and curb any health and welfare issue, and it does buy time to deal with the
balance of what has to happen so maybe it could be looked at as a two phase program, but again I
think the thing that drives it is whether or not we do have a further degrad~on of the paint chips
and you know if they're airborne, it's a bigger concern so we have to do something about it.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council members. Just one point of clarification on that. If we do go
ahead and try to shore up the painting of thin facility, we're basically going to end up spending
approximately $25,000 and I think if you make that kind of investment, you're going to have to
remove the lead paint and capture it and then paint the facility. Secure some kind of roof on the
structure so you don't see the rain or anything impede the paint. We're going to spend that
money and the question would be demolition would probably be out of the question then atter
making that kind of investment in it.
Councilman Ayotte: That's why we need the staff to take a look see at it. What's in that
expense? You've got 6 to 10K then on the asbestos lead paint removal. Oh that's not paint,
that's just removing it. Right'?
Mayor Jansen: Correct, and didn't I understand that you can in fact paint over it to seal it? Is that
what you're quoting?
Todd Gerhardt: That is one option that is availaNe. Not reading the report to see in detail what
their recommendation was, but that worked on another project that we had.
Councilman Boyle: And is that where you're getting a figure of $25,000 Todd?
Todd Gerhardt: I'm going off the contract, which is the balance of the $25,000 ~ payment of
asbestos and lead paint removal will be paid to the contractor so I was assuming painting, lead
removal, asbestos removal was in the figure of about $25,000.
Councilman Ayotte: There's a Chanhassen salute you know. We've got to find out what the
facts are before we can even go forward on iL
Mayor Jansen: Okay, Councilman Peterson.
Councilman Peterson: Yeah this is tough. I mean we've sat here, like you said, almost for 2
years. We set deadlines for ourselves to tear it down or build it up and I think we've been
creative and we've asked the citizens for help and they've done a diligent job but yet nothing is
still been done. And it doesn't look like it will be done until at the earliest spring, probable
summer-fall of next year so you've got another year of potential waiting and without any ability
to get a guarantee out of it. So as much as I hate to say it, I think 1&st time I sat here I said let's, I
need to see progress and I've seen progress on paper, but that's it and I guess my intent was to see
physical building progress by now so I'll throw out the first tough point of saying I think it's time
we put it to bed and use the funds for other areas of the park. Whether it's a shelter or whatever,
but let's get the park and the whole neighborhood a park that they can use you know in the spring
and I'd recommend we demolish it now.
Councilman Ayotte: I disagree with Craig on thin point. I think we need to get more deliberate
information on whether or not we have a contamination issue. The asbestos. It's been so long.
You know we have a time line that we don't reco~maiTe it. I see this as a potential for building
19
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
community, because as the gentleman pointed out. I forgot your name, I'm sorry. In light of a
very bad year for a number of folks you guys have still come up with some donations in kind, and
have made an effort. ! would prefer to go with the mayor's approach of putting a mark in the
sand saying if we don't have something progressive and substantive by a certain date, that then
we go ahead with it, but put the date in mind. Say by this date if we don't see something, given
the good faith effort that everyone's done, then we make the hard decision. But I still would like
to see from staff some detail on where we stand with the asbestos and some actual costs. I've
heard a couple different cost points. We're still not certain what those are fight now because it's
been so long, but put a date dowm Put a date down.
Councilman Peterson: With that comment, are you stating that, or at least inferring that the city
should expel any money to see progress or not?
Councilman Ayotte: No. No, what I'm saying is, we put a date down as to when we see progress
with respect to the project and have enough information to be able to decide whether or not we
can encapsulate the exterior of the building which would give the stability of the exterior for
safety purposes so that the balance of the project could continue and that there would be dates
established for the continuation and completion of those projects. So what I'm envisioning is a
drop dead date for encapsulation, should encapsulation be a position and reasonable approach, to
curb any concern for, to the environment. Number two, a follow-up date for the completion of
Phase II. And that would be based on staff recommendation that's a reasouable approach, flit is
not a reasonable approach, then we've got to revisit iL
Councilman Peterson: So just to clarify then. You're saying that you would like to see tangible
change in that building smaemre without expending any additional city ftmds.
Councilman Ayotte: Correct. And the tangible change would be the aesthetics, as the Mayor has
pointed out, and also an assurance from the staff that whatever action is taken would encapsulate
any environmental concer~-
Councilman Boyle: I don't think that's possible Bob. We'd have to invest that $25,000, if I'm
not mistaken.
Councilman Ayotte: I don't know that because he wasn't sure what that 25K was.
Councilman Boyle: Well, excuse me. Are you done? I also agree on a date. I don't know if we
need to bite the bullet and make the decision for demolishing tonight. However, I think that
decision should be made within the next 60 days and once we get the report back from you Todd,
we have enough information I t~ink to make the decision. And I do not agree to investing a
penny on it until we get to that poinL
Mayor Jansen: So just so I'm clear, the information that we're looking for from Mr. Gerhardt is
the cost of doing the encapsulatiort, is that what you're looking for? I jusL
Todd Gerhardt: Well encapsulation is only if needed in the environmental assessment.
Todd Hoffman: It's needed. It's either remove it or encapsulate it, one of the two. If you paint
on the exterior. And then remove the, there's minor areas of asbestos in the tile in the interior.
It's not a major deal. It's the exterior paint, which is a lead based product, which to date has not
degraded to a point there's environmental concern, but it still needs to be encapsulat~l or
removed.
2O
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
Councilman Ayotte: Make it pretty and safe.
Todd Hoffman: Correct.
Councilman Peterson: So we're going to spend money to get that pretty and safe again though.
Councilman Ayotte: No. They're going to spend it.
Councilman Peterson: No. If.
Todd Gerhardt: It's on our side of the ledger in the agreement.
Councilman Ayotte: It is?
Todd Gerhardt: That was my point is that you may spend up to $25,000 with the potential of this
building coming down if improvements aren't made. Or it would just stay, you know painted
with the roof structure.
Councilman Ayotte: So the question still remains, what's a fair and reasonable price to make it
pretty and safe.
Councilman Peterson: And we have that.
Mayor Jansen: It's potentially.
Todd Gerhardt: Somewhere under $25,000.
Mayor Jansen: Right, and we've already spent 15 so we'd be butting up against the $40,000 that
was budgeted for the project, and I guess what I'm going to throw out one more alt~u'nafive for
council. If we were to use the city funds to enstu~ that exledor is no longer an eyesore, which is
what I'm hearing from the neighbors. They just don't want to have to look al this any longer, but
if we, so if we take care of that And the roof would need to be addressed to make sure thai it's
no longer leaking into the building. If our funds go to that, we set the dale. We've got control
over what actually happens to the exterior of the building. Then it's turned over to the volunteers
for everything.
Councilman Ayotte: The balance.
Mayor Jansen: Yeah, the balance of it. Interior. Upgrades. Any of the, I think I saw steps and
landscaping and benches and all of those things, but we're addressing the exterior of the building
and at least saying to the neighborhood, that part we're addressing. We're guarantee~. We're
going to get it done and we've then got contwl over the date. I'm just thro~ that out as
another option.
Councilman Ayotte: At what value now, because I'm confused. How much.
Mayor Jansen: That's what we have to find out
Councilman Peterson: I don't think you can do the roof and the exlc~or for the mount we're
talking about.
21
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
Mayor Jansen: Well that's where it was here, estimates have ranged from a low of 10 or 20,000
to paint and roof the exterior. But those were just estimates.
Todd Hoffman: Board up the windows. Obviously there are variances in what people will
accept. A painted building with boarded up windows and a roof, new roof, may not be pleasing
to ail residents. They may say you've invested your city's money and we still don't like what
we're looking at. Therein lies, there's something I've said all the way along is this is one of those
projects that is either all or nothing, and the all has come down. The committee has said we're
not going to do the windows at the roof line. We're not going to do some of those other things,
but it still takes windows and a usable product I think you have to have a sense of pride that the
community is going to enjoy.
Mayor Jansen: Well I'm looking at the donation list and windows were one of the issues that
they do have addressed under donations, correct Deanna?
Councilman Ayotte: Except for the top.
Deanna Bunkelman: For the stainglass. I know that the other windows are...do have a cost of
those from 2 to 7,000...
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Todd Hoffman: And there's a time line in the larger packet on pages 7 and 8 that has been
proposed.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Take a crack at it Steve.
Councilman Labatt: Well, I'm just going to ask a few questions. Todd, shoot me a ballpark price
on a park shelter which is open sided on posts with a roof. Approximately 30 by 60 feet. On a
concrete slab.
Todd Hoffman: The last 3 we've built were at Power Hill, Meadow Green and North Lotus.
They range from 25 to 45,000 each.
Councilman Labatt: So if we took the money we have on hand right now, demolish the building
and put one of those up, would we be better serving the patrons of that park?
Todd Hoffman: Not for me to say.
Mayor Jansen: That was one of the conversations that we had.
Councilman Peterson: Yeah, we've been down that path before.
Councilman Labatt: Well I know and I was just relaying the concerns from the comments I've
heard from some neighbors over there that why don't you just build a shelter. I mean you know.
Maybe we don't need to go that big buC
Mayor Jansen: And that's do you re-name the park once you no longer have a round house?
Councilman Labatt: No, you just make it round.
22
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
Councilman Peterson: Yeah, you make the shelter round.
Mayor Jansen: You make the pavilion round.
Councilman Peterson: And again I've seen those. I mean those are.
Councilman Labatt: They have one over at Lone Lake Park I think in Minnetonka. They have a
round one. I'm hearing you Bob and Gary on your points but I'm also hearing Craig, believe it or
not. I just wonder if the family wants to go to the park on a Sunday aftemoo~ you know put
together a quick spare of the moment 3 or 4 family oufi~ they wouldn't be able to get into that
building to use it. But if you had an open sided one with some grills they would so.
Councilman Ayotte: But even with the issue of cost, I'm still not certain that we have, I'm
always leery of a demolition cost when you have any sort of asbestos inside. So you know.
Mayor Jansen: There will be costs involved with the demolition definitely. Yeah.
Councilman Ayotte: And painting it, and what you're suggesting with, maybe we can talk them
into building one of those things...with the round house, but this is building community a little
bit. You know we've got folks that are getting together, and I understand it's an eyesore. I
understand there's people that want it down, but you do have members in that community that are
pushing forward. Taking too damn long, but they've got donation.q. They've in good faith have
done it as volunteers.
Councilman Labatt: Well I'm just throwing it out.
Councilman Boyle: Well it would definitely cost us more I think to demolish than build a shelter.
It'd be more than $40,000 I'm sure.
Todd Hoffman: Demolition costs are, the demolition cost of the, taking it to the landfill becaurse
it is a baTardous product so costs there.
Councilman Boyle: It'd be expensive right?
Mayor Jansen: This is again, it's been one of our more difficult issues to actually kick around,
and I agree that had we managed to get something accomplished by now. Had we been able to
get the exterior taken care of, I don't think I would feel the sense of urgency that I am on behalf
of the neighbors in the area. They need to see something happen and they need something
definite committed to. I think tonight if we just say we're going to do some more review and in
60 days come back and talk about this again; it's what they've continuously heard all along, I
guess I don't have a pwblem with trying to at least main~n the exterior to have it stand there as,
I don't know if it's necessarily historic. You can't really call it historic but I think it does have
some value. Some value in the community. I don't want to make the significant investment that
we need to make to really bring it up to what these neighbors would like to have it function as,
but I'm feeling willing to give them that opportunity if at the same time we can address the
exterior and make sure that we at least get that taken care of. I'm hearing they're being
committed. That the windows would in fact be addressed. If we're painting the outside at the
same time they're moving forward with the windows and all of their work and I'd like to see
some heads nodding if you think that would work. To be able to coordinate the two efforts. If
what we're trying to do is accomplish making it less of an eyesore, and you're with us on that, it
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
seems like we can come up with a win/wire If we're painting as you're doing windows as an
example.
Councilman Peterson: You know I don't disagree with that thought process but if you recall one
of the last times we had a conversation about it, those, the windows at the top of the building
were a pretty substantial part of the design to make that building more inviting to go into.
Because without that you've got a small building that is going to be very dark inside. It's not
going to be very inviting so what we've got presented tonight, that was one of the reasons that
I've kind of changed my mind saying let's act on this is because they've taken out those windows
for cost reasons. They haven't been able to fund them. Now you take those windows out of
there, that's not a very inviting building. It's not going to be because there's not going to be a lot
of windows and a lot of brightness in there. In the summer time, to Steve's point, nobody's going
to want to go in there. And if we use it as a warming house, the cost of heai~ a two story
warming house is going to be large. Very large. So the utility value in the winter time is
mitigated and now you're mitigating the utility value in the summer time. So now you've got a
building that looks good from the outside without any practi~ value inside. My other two cents
worth.
Councilman Ayotte: I know how I'm going to vote. I want to paint it and roof iL And then I
want to put a date on you guys.
Mayor Jansen: If you want to take a crack at a motion we can see if we have any kind of a
Councilman Ayotte: Contingent upon sta~s input and a dete~on on the environmental
condition of the building I move that we authorize staff to paint the exterior of the building and
roof that building and integrate into that project the proper inte~on of windows as donated by
the committee.
Councilman Boyle: Do you want to put a time line on that?
Councilman Ayotte: With initiation of the work beginning, based on seasonal opportunity, as
early as we can in the springtime, with the completion date for the exterior of the building and the
windows, mid-summer. September.
Councilman Peterson: The other way.
Councilman Ayotte: Well then go this way for crying out loud.
Mayor Jansen: If you can paint it by May.
Councilman Ayotte: Fine, May.
Councilman Boyle: June
Mayor Jansen: So then June 1't as a deadline on it.
Councilman Boyle: Is that okay?
Councilman Ayotte: Alright, alright. Yeah, fine.
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
Councilman Boyle: Good.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, do I have a second. Then we can discuss the motion.
Councilman Boyle: I'll second that.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Discussion of the motion-
Councilman Peterson: I don't understand the window concept. I mean they've said that they've
taken out the upper windows because they couldn't fund · So you're saying as a requirement, or
not relevant7
Councilman Ayotte: No, no. I'm saying that the windows that they want to introduce, what has
to be integrated with the paint project because you've got to address the windows.
Mayor Jansen: The regular windows that are there now versus boarding them up.
Councilman Ayotte: Yeah. Yeah.
Mayor Jansen: So they would be replacing those.
Councilman Ayotte: Replacing those windows.
Councilman Peterson: And how do you react to my comment that the utih'ty value of the building
is being mitigated.
Councilman Ayotte: I think it is. I agree with that. I think.
Councilman Peterson: Then why would we want to spend money on it if we know that the utility
value is being marginal on it?
Councilman Ayotte: Because I think there's also additional gain in terms of building community
and I think it's a start point and I think it's a good thing for people to give to the commullity. I
think there's intrinsic value of what's going on and I'm hoping to see other projects like this
percolate up from this activity. This is a learning experience and maybe some other things can
emanate from this thing so I'm not looking at just the tower. I'm looking at opportunities beyond
just the tower, and this is a start point. So I see intrinsic value in this beyond simply the tower.
I'm not downplaying your tower, but this is building community as far as I'm concerned because
eventually I'm going to be talking about auxi~ police departments and volunteer police and
other things too, so this is just the start point for other bigger and better things to emanate from
such a project.
Mayor Jansen: I don't remember exactly how you worded it, but you made this contingent upon
an environmental review by staff of some sort. Are they coming back to us then with some costs
involved in actually.
Councilman Ayotte: No, no. Just make sure that what we're doing is environmentally correct.
That there is an encapsulation gain as a result of what we're doing. To make sure that whatever
we are doing is within the constraints and parameters established by the environmelllal baseline
survey. Make sure.we're not doing something inappropriate, that's all.
25
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
Mayor Jansen: And would you be willing to maybe m that if it does go considerably beyond,
if it goes beyond our budget, that that comes back to us, for us to take a look at. Just, and I'm
thinking over the next short period.
Councilman Ayotte: Yeah.
Mayor Jansen: Not next spring.
Councilman Ayotte: Yeah, so if we see an unforeseen cost, we'd better visit it, yes.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Just so we're re-revisiting it.
Councilman Labatt: What in your motion takes care oftbe inside tile that contains asbestos? Or
are we just dealing with the outside for now? We're not going to worry about the inside?
Councilman Ayotte: I'm not worrying about the inside at this point. We're buying time to deal
with the exterior and to stop the finther degradation, take care Of the roof and so forth, and let
Phase II deal with the interior which is I would suspect the committee's actions to take ca~ of'.
Councilman Boyle: Todd, do you think it would be wise to take care of' the asbestos al the same
time we're doing the paint? The lead paint or getting rid of the lead paint.
Mayor Jansen: The interior.
Councilman Boyle: The interior portion of the asbestos.
Todd Hoffman: It's removal of some tile and two different conlxacts.
Councilman Boyle: Okay. So it could be a Phase H si~_a__fi_on?
Todd Hoffman: Yeah, and it's a minor, minor issue on the interior. I could take them up
tomorrow without license and, but it's simply a.
Councilman Ayotte: Don't say that in front of everybody.
Todd Hoffman: I won't, but you could.
Councilman Labatt: So we have 40 budgeted. We're already spent 15, right? We have 25 lefL
Mayor Jansen: Correct.
Councilman Labatt: And what ifBob's motion exceeds 25?
Mayor Jansen: That's what we just added.
Councilman Ayotte: They bring back to council and we have to re-visit it.
Mayor Jansen: That's what we were just talk abouL That they need to bring it back. flit ends up
being more than that.
Councilman Ayotte: You're still update over the police report, aren't you?
26
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
Councilman Labatt: Steamed, yeah. Boy you know, I just, I go back to Craig's comments. The
utility of this and okay.
Mayor Jansen: And I don't know that I'm n~essarily focused on toqng to get the maximum
utility that we had originally talked about That's where I'm at the point of~ if we're leaving this
standing in the neighborhood, and the exterior is appealhag, and we've got the vol~ working
on the interior, they're going to get that to the level that they can. I don't know th~ I necessaxfly
think that this is ever going to be a warming house. I see it more maybe for these art classes and
not a functional building in the winter. If only because of the cost of the utilities th~ would be
involved but I mean they're not doing the plumbing any longer. Base board heating was on here.
Councilman Labatt: I just look at.
Councilman Peterson: They won't have any classes in there in July or August on the second
floor, I'll tell you that too.
Councilman Labatt: I just look at the recurring expense. You know we're, Bob?
Councilman Ayotte: Don't start with me Labatt.
Councilman Labatt: You're always worrying about
Councilman Ayotte: You got your damn Christmas tree lights, now let's deal with this thing
okay.
Councilman Labatt: Oh okay.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Councilman Boyle: You just made another good point. You're right, they wouldn't be on the
second floor because there's not going to be any windows on the second floor. Correct?
Todd Hoffman: There's windows on the second floor. The existing windows are boarded up,
that would be replaced.
Councilman Boyle: Oh, it will be replaced. So okay.
Mayor Jansen: Yeah, it's the regular windows. It just won't have the sky light windows. I don't
remember where that picture was.
Councilman Ayotte: This is going to be a challenge for the community to take what we've done
and bring it to a standard that will make it functional. Give them a chance. What we're doing is
we're curbing the issues on the outside and making it pretty and safe. And there's going to be
other gains that we're going to have after this is done. This is the fu'st of many windows.
Mayor Jansen: Okay Deanna and Ed, you've heard how we've ~ the motion. Are you
feeling comfortable that you're volunteer group would be able to eoordinme...prepared to come
in and start addressing the windows and moving your project forward. Because I would say
that's part of it.
27
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
Deanna Bunkelman: Yeah, can I just add some clarification?
Mayor Jansen: Certainly, please. Come on up to the microphone. Thanks.
Deanna Bunkelman: Man it's hard to sit back there when there's so much information flying
around, I just want to make sure it's all factual. The reason nothing has been done to the building
is because the contract had stated that we cannot do anything, no work should commence on the
site until we've raised $25,000. And you can see that we haven't raised quite $25,000 so nothing
can start on the site. Also, it had stated until we raise the $25,000, again nothing can start, but
once that's done the city would contract to have the lead in the asbestos paint removed. And the
reason that there's that $25,000 cap for the city is like Todd said. There's $40,000. $15,000 was
spent on Locus Architecture firm for coming up with the plan so there's $25,000 left. That
$25,000 was not just earmarked for the lead and the asbestos. That was just earmarked as that's
what's left from the city tO contribute towards the project, and that's how you can see that with
our budget there, we're saying that with us raising 25 and you contributing 25, we could still
potentially be, we'd still be under $50,000. So I just want to be sure people are clear that that's
why you haven't seen anything physically happen is because we're not allowed to physically do
anything yet, and with the lead and asbestos paint there, it wouldn't make sense for us to. Until
that's been removed. Does that make sense?
Councilman Peterson: Yeah, but to your point though, there would have been stuff done if you
would have raised $25,000 so I don't want to.
Deanna Bunkelman: Oh exactly, right Yeah, I don't want to dwell on that but I just wanted to
make sure you're clear that we haven't, yeal~
Councilman Peterson: Oh absolutely.
Deanna Bunkelman: And then as far as the utility of the building. I think you're going to get
more utility out of the building as it stands instead of grazing it and putting a, just shelter there. A
shelter's not going to be really, you know an open shelter. That's not really used during the
winter months. It's pretty much just the summer months and our park akeady has a bunch of
picnic tables that are utilized now and then. But I think we're just going to get more use out of
the building standing as is. Heating costs, I don't think they're going to be as bad as what you
thinlc If you look at base board heaters, which is what we're planning. We're not planning to put
a furnace in, because keeping the second level, you can put the, I don't know if you know much
about base board heaters but if you've looked at any base board heaters lately, at a very cost
effective manner, they put out a lot of heat and they don't cost that much to run so that's what our
plan was to go down those lines.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: Any other clarification tl~ you need?
Mayor Jansen: Anything else from Deanna. Alright, thank you. Appreciate it Okay, so I'm
heating that our volunteer group is with us on this. And we just need to get something
communicated then into the neighborhood as we're addressing this. So we've got a motion and a
second.
Councilman Boyle: And an amendment
28
City Council Meeting - October 28, 2002
Mayor Jansen: And an amendment. Did we approve and formalize your friendly amendment that
it get back to us if it in fact goes over our $25,000 budget?
Councilman Ayotte: I'm okay with it.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. So you've accepted that as a friendly amendment to your motion. Okay.
And did the second also accept the friendly amendment?
Councilman Boyle: Oh sure did.
Councilman Ayotte moved, Councilman Boyle seconded that the City Council approve
contingent upon staff's input and a determination on the environmental condition of the
building, to authorize staff to paint and roof the exterior of the building, integrating into
that project the proper integration of windows as donated by the committee with
completion by June 1, 2003. Also, ff the cost to paint and roof exc__eeds the $25,000, that the
item be brought back to the City Council for consideration. Coun_eilman Peterson,
Councilman Boyle and Mayor Jansen voted in favor of the motion- Councilman Peterson
and Councilman Labatt voted in opposition to the motion- The motion carried with a vote
of 3 to 2.
Mayor Jansen: And the motion carries 3-2. And let's, staff if you could look into what those
costs are involved and get back to us expeditiously so it just, if anything to confirm that we're
within the budget so we can make sure this is finalized. And let's do what we can to get thi~
communicated to the neighbors so that they know we're at least proceeding with these
discussions and that the volunteers have in fact made some progress because what I was finding is
that the concerned neighbors, and of course as you know, your neighborhood was split 50/50 for
and against. Those that would have preferred to have seen it get bulldozed, need to hear that the
volunteers have moved forward with a project and that your plans are progressing because that's
really what they're saying to us is you know, we haven't heard anything in over a year and it's
still sitting there in the shape that it's in so we do somehow need to communicate to everyone that
there is a plan in place and there are people who have made a concerted effort because I don't
think they would appreciate the city pulling the plug on a group of residents that's put at least
some effort into trying to pull the project together. I think there'd be a level of appreciation, at
least around that to the time that they've committed to this, and that's whir we're trying to be
sensitive to in moving the project forward. So thank you and we appreciate your coming in with
the update Deanna and Ed and thanks for sticking with your project and hopefully we'll see this
progress next spring and we'll all feel more positive about what we've just done. So thanks.
CONCEPTUAL PUD CONSIDERATION FOR 540 RESIDENTIAL DWEIJ,1NG UNITS
ON PROPERTY CURRENTLY ZONED A-2~ AGRICULTURAL ESTATE; LOCATED
ON THE EAST SIDE OF AUDUBON ROAD~ SOIYFH OF LYMAN BOUI,KVARD AND
NORTH OF PIONEER TRAIL.
Public Present:
Name Addrezs
Richard Palmiter
Mitch & Jill Anderson
Town & Counlxy Homes
2853 Timberview Trail, Chaska
29
CT OF
7700 Marka Boulevard
PO Box 147
Chanhassan, MN 55317
Administration
Phone: 952.227.1100
Fax: 952.227.1110
Building Inspections
Phone: 952.227.1180
Fax: 652.227.1190
Englneedng
Phone: 952227.1160
Fax: 952.227.1170
Finance
Phone: 952.227.1140
Fax:. 952.227.1110
Park & RecreatJon
Phone: 952227.1120
Fax: 952227.1110
Recreaio~ Center
2310 C~lter Boulevard
Phone: 952.227.1400
Fax: 952227.1404
Planning &
Natural Resoarces
P'nmle: 952227.1130
Fax: 952227.1110
Pabllc Wodm
1591 Park Road
Phone: 952227.1300
Fax: 952227.1310
Senior Center
Phone: 952.227.1125
Fax:. 9,.52227.1110
Web Site
www. d.c~anhass~n.mn.us
TO: Todd Gerhardt, City Manager
FROM Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director
DATE: October 17, 2002
SUBJ:
The Roundhouse, Roundhouse Park
The City acquired Roundhouse Park in 1995. Initial development of the park
including site grading, construction of the parking lot, playground, trails, beach
and skating area was completed in 1997 and 1998. Multiple stmctuma were raz~
on the property to aceomm~ development of the parle.. By recommendation of
the Park and Recreation Commission the Roundhouse was spared from this fate
due to its unique character and relative si~ificance as a local landmark. The park
was later named "Roundhouse Park" in recognition of this landmark.
Since that time there has been multiple proposals to renovate the structure. Sewer
and water service was disconnected from the structure. (It had served as a
residence up to the City's acquisition.) A new electrical service was installed as a
means of powering a skating rink light and a winter warming house. The light is
mounted to the outside of the structure and a portable trailer is parked next to the
roundhouse in the winter serving as a warming house. The interior of the building
has more or less been gutted. A temporary waterproof membrane has been
installed on the roof to halt water infiltration.
The cost of renovating the structure has been the lximary deterrent to seeing a
project approved. Estimates have ranged from a low of $10,000 or $20,000 to
paint and roof the exterior, board up the windows and "mothball" the interior to
$120,000 for a complete restoration. The City advertised for bids on a complete
restoration in the summer of 2000. The low bid of $119,372 by M-CON, Inc. was
rejected by the City Council. The Council then directed staff to meet with the
Park and Recreation Commission and the neighborhood to investigate alternatives
to the publicly bid project.
This meeting was held in February of 2001 with the idea of utilizing a
neighborhood work force and budgeted City dollars being the most popular
alternative to the bid project. Deanna Bunkelman, 4191 Red Oak Lane, stepped
forward at the April 23, 2001 City Council meeting as a volunteer willing to
coordinate this effort. That evening Councilman Ayotte moved with a second
from Councilman Labatt to approve option 4 for renovation of the Roundhouse
building at Roundhouse Park with the following conditions:
The City of Chanha#en · A growing community with clean lakes, quality schools, a charming downtown, thriving businesses, winding hails, and beautiful parks. A grot placo to live, work, and play.
Todd Gerhardt, City Manager
October 17, 2002
Page 2
.
The total amount of the money allocated for the project shall not exceed $40,000,
including monies already spent to date.
.
A safety plan, a QA plan and a plan to meet all the constraints normally associated with a
building project such as this shall be submiRed prior to consmaction.
3. Professional trade supervision shall be provided on the site.
On September 25, 2001 the Park and Recreation Commission was inf~ that the
neighborhood initiative to renovate the Roundhouse had not resulted in significant progress.
Deanna Bunkelman presented a follow up report to the City Council on October 8, 2001. That
evening the neighborhood project coordinators were granted an extension with the following
conditions:
Work P/an: A work plan should be provided that details the scope of the project from
start to completion. The plan should include budget, materials, subconwaztor list,
building permits, etc.
o
Project Schedule: The project schedule should include a month-to-month account of the
work to be completed.
1
Commitment:. Each project team volunteer should state their commitment to the project
and its completion.
.
Dead//ne: All of the information must be submitted to the City Council by November 12.
If not, staff should be directed to prepare the site for demolition by the end of November
2001.
On November 13, 2001, Ms. Janet Carlson, 4141 Kings Road, and Mr. Ed K-ling, 4169 Red Oak
Lane, presented the neighborhood's Roundhouse Renovation Planning Document to the City
Council. The City Council reviewed these documents and directed staff to prepare a contract for
the renovation of the Roundhouse with Roundhouse Renovation, Inc. Staff and the City
Attorney' s office met with the neighborhood representatives on November 30, 2001 to forge the
contents of this contract. A contract was subsequently drafted and delivered to Ms. Bunkelman.
The contract specifies that work would commence on or about March 1, 2002 and be completed
by October 31, 2002. Roundhouse Renovation, Inc. never executed this contract. To my
knowledge this non-profit corporation was never formed.
Staff anticipates that Ms. Bunkelman and other members of the Roundhouse Park neighborhood
will be present at the October 28t~ City Council meeting to update the Council on their efforts.
C:
Deanna Bunkelman, 4191 Red Oak Lane
Janet Carlson, 4141 Kings Road
Ed Kling, 4169 Red Oak Lane
City Council Meeting - April 23, 2001
Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you. Any other questions from council? Comments?
much. Keep us posted.
Beth Hoiseth: You're welcome.
Councilman Labatt: Tbank.q Beth.
RQUNDHOUSE PAVHJON lt~NQVATIQN. ROUNDHOUSE PARK.
Public Present:
Name Address___
Okay. Thank you very
San Lash 7001 Tecnm~eh Lane
Fred Berg 6910 Chaparral Lane
Rod Franks 8694 Mary Jane Circle
David Moes 6241 Near Mountain Blvd.
Linda Scott 4031 Kings Road
Michael & Connor Howe 2169 Stone Creek Drive
Deanna Bunkelman 4191 Red Oak Lane
Ed Kling 4169 Red Oak Lane
Jody & Greta Carlson 4041 Leslee Curve
Janet Carlson 4141 Kings Road
Jim Manders 6791 Chaparral Lane
Todd Hoffman: Madam Mayor, members of the City Council. It's my pleasure to be here this evening
again to talk about the round house with the City Council. This past February you directed staff to
coordinate a neighborhood meeting between the Park and Recreation Commission and the neighborhood
to discuss alternative methods of renovating the round house. And if you recall at that time we were
talking about a public bid project of approximately $125,000 to complete thia work. On Tuesday, April
10~ the commission conducted this neighborhood meeting. Approximately 20 to 25 residents attended
representing both sides of the issue. Tho~ side~ being tear it down, and either just leave the hole or fill
it and plant grass or put an alternative shelter up, and those residents supp~g the renovation or saving
the round house. The rne2JSng lasted approximately 2 houm. Upon conclusion of the di~ussion that
evening Commissioner Frank.q r~ommendext the City Council move forward with Option ~4. And that
option in brief is, have the City inve~st approximately $50,000, or up to $50,000 in the project Then have
a neighborhood group or neighborhood committee with a chairpe~on work with local conl/actom and
local building suppliers to complete the project as a neighborhood initiative. And that would lead to an
adaptive re-use of the round house as a park shelter and that the commission would review the progress
to that end at their September meeting. And if a comensus of the commi.qsion at that time i~ that progr~s
is not satisfactory, that the commission would then en~ demolition of the round house at that time.
The motion was clarified to specify that a neighborhood coordinator and committee would form to retain
and work directly with a local contractor to complete the renovation. Commi.qsioner Berg seconded the
motion which passed in a vote of 5 to 1. In the audience thi.q evening we have Deanna Bunkelman who
ha~ volunteered to serve as the neighborhood coordinator, or at least play out that role if another member
were identified. And then there's members of the neighborhood here as well thi.q evening. In addition
we have all members of the Park and Recreation Commission in the audience thi.~ evening here to answer
questions, or offer assistance to the City Council.
City Council Me~ting - April 23, 2001
Councilman Ayotte: None of them have an opinion though, do they?
Todd Hoffman: I believe they may have an opinion, sure. If you'd like to hear those. With that, I'm
excited about the process. I think this is what, sometimes we're criticized for...that certainly takes some
element of risk on the part of the City and the City Council, but I think it's a project that is worthwhile.
One thing that I noted at the meeting was that it took some bravery m stand up in front of those neighbors
that opposed the project and say that we support it and we're willing to take it on if the City gives us a
chance. I think there' s a good deal of neighborhood peer pressure in the area that will push these people
to make the project a reality. That's the end of my report.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you. Any questions for staff at this point?
Councilman Peterson: Todd, is the design that was presented in February and the design that is
essentially is there today, is it substantially different? It was a htmdrod and some thousand by having an
architect drawing and an outside contractor doing it. Is the building still essentially the same or has it
changed substantially?
Todd Hoffman: The project I would think would be relatively the same with the exception of probably
the clear story or the glass glazing would go away from the top. It' s an expensive element. Some of the
structural steel that was identified in the project may go away as a part of a neighborhood project. But
the neat thing about it is that plans that were developed and the city paid for would be utiliT~xl by the
contractor and the committee to make use of in their project so we are getting some value out of those
plans.
Councilman Peterson: We also authorized a certain amount of money to be spent in February to stop the
deterioration. Was there any money spent at all or?
Todd Hoffman: Not to date, no. The roof membrane which has been placed over it is still in good
condition and holding water out of the structure so it has dried ouc We have not placed a temporaxy
fence around it at this time.
Councilman Peterson: Lastly, we talk about a $50,000 investment from the City. How confident are we,
and I don't know whether or not it's appropriate for you to answer this. I'll leave it up to you. If we get
down the road and realize it's still going to cost more, there's a, are we going to be caught between a
rock and a hard place if we end up spending 45. Get down to September and we need another 25 to
finish it, I mean what are the odds that that might happen you think?
Todd Hoffman: There's some risks listed under here and one of those, as is stated directly in the staff
report, is that the possibility that the money may run out prior to the completion of the project. But I
think if we're clear to this committee that the reason that $50,000 has been identified is that's the limit
for, that a city can invest in a project such as this without going out to public bidding and so that's a
pretty clear message to that organization that you'd better budget wisely. Get an upfront plan. Make
sure you know who you're getting donations from and where your labor's coming from and plan
accordingly because nobody wants, is interested in getting ~A of the road down the project or halfway
down and running out of money.
Councilman Peterson: Okay, thank you.
City Council Meeting - April 23, 2001
Councilman Ayotte: First off, I did some checking last week and I got the an.qwers today. A number of
residents e-mailed me inquiring about safety issues. Safety issues in terms of i ,reproving the facility and
people using it inappropriately. That sort of thing. I got a hold of Bud Olson. He had some people
check it out and they do not see that as a viable safety issue, which surprised me. So he changed my
mind. Not just because he's the sheriff, but because he had some good, credible information associated
with this so just as a matter of public record, I want that to be known~ With respect to liability for folks
working on the project. How do you couch liability for the volunteers?
Todd Hoffman: There are certain segments of the project which will have to be subcontracted and the
one that I know of today is the removal, if the paint is removed on the outside, of that lead-in paint. And
so the group would need to work with a licensed contractor in that area, if they want to strip it. If they
want to paint over or encapsulate that paint, they would be perf~y fine doing that work.
Councilman Ayotte: Does the commission or anyone else view any potential liability areas outside of the
Hazmat? Crawling up on the second floor scaffolding. Things along that, and how do we protect the
City?
Todd Hoffman: There's risks in that area. I'm not sure if Roger would like to comment on that but
anytime you have people working with a project such as this, it's a two story project. There's demolition
involved.
Councilman Ayotte: How are we protected?
Roger Knutson: Liability normally attaches based on negligence and a lot of other theories. It depends
on what we have these people doing, and whether the conditions are safe and if we have them doing
things that only skilled people should be doing and we allow them to do it, we could have some liability.
Of course we are insured. So it'd be whatever deductibles we'd have. That's little comfort if a person is
injured.
Scott Botcher: Without the city exercising direct supexvision of the activities and the volunteers, we
have liability.
Roger Knutson: Again, depending on what you're doing.
Scott Botcher: Absolutely.
Roger Knutson: If you're up on a scaffold and you have a 16 year old child working on a scaffold,
there's a problem.
Councilman Ayotte: I'm just voicing a concern. I'm hoping that it's addressed properly and that the
supervisory issues are there. That the QA issues are there and that possibly we inform folks of the risk
and liability associated with the project before we do a go forward. That is a concern of mine.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Councilman Labatt: I had the same concerns with liability so Bob. once again answered them for me. As
I look at this building, every time I drive by it, it's a building that definitely is an eyesore but I think with
what.
10
City Council Meeting - April 23, 2001
Mayor Jansen: I think that was agreement.
Councilman Labatt: And I look back to what the folks in Excelsior did with the Minehaha steamer and
how they used a group of volunteers over a long period of time to restore that. And I think that this
option 4 gives us that option so I'll leave it at that.
Mayor Sansen: Okay. This is in fact not a public hearing and we certainly have extensive minutes from
the Park and Recreation Commission meeting. I'm sure everyone did read through those and we
appreciate every one who did come in and speak at that hearing. The individual that, if council wouldn't
mind my asking her to approach the microphone and speak .to her supervising the project, would be
Deanna Bunkelman. If she, did I understand she's here this evening? If you wouldn't mind coming
forward to the microphone and if you wouldn't mind stating your name and address for the record.
Deanna Bunkelman: Deanna Bunkelman, 4191 Red 0ak Lane.
Mayor Jansen: Thanks for joining us tonight. We appreciate it and for stepp~ up and volunteering to
organize this effort. We appreciate it.
Deanna Bunkelman: I'm not sure, I had sent you a separate e-mail. Were you able to read that?
Mayor Jansen: Yes. Appreciate that.
Deanna Bunkelman: Okay. One thing I did want to let you know is I did find a co-coordinator so that
we can definitely have the time and resources available to do this because I think it would be a lot for one
person, since I do have a full time job. And he's here tonight as well and I don't know if you want him to
spealc He wasn't able to come to the commission meeting but he would be willing to say a few words.
Mayor Jansen: I'm sure we wouldn't mind meeting him as well.
I~nna Bunkelman: Ed Kling. And I pretty much, if you've read my e-mail, I pretty much said
everything I needed to say so I don't know ff you have any specific questions for me.
Mayor Jansen: Well, some of the issues that I'm hearing, and maybe if you wouldn't mind potentially
addressing, the one that came up as far as the city's contribution and we haven't established yet as a
council what that contribution amount will be. But it inevitably will take more financial wherewithal to
get this accomplished.
~ Bunkelman: We are hoping to get as many donations as possible from local businesses. I just
found out tonight, we were hoping to hit some major window manufacturers because we really liked the
design of the building with the windows up above. You know right under the cone of the roof, and I just
found out tonight we have a great connection with Marvin Windows so we're hoping to get all the
windows donated. We'll be going to other local building manufacturers to see what type of building
material we can get donated, such as all the roofing materials, the cedar shakes. We also have
connections with some local builders so we're hoping that they can donate whatever they can donate, so
at least the materials. Labor, we have many neighbors in the neighborhood that are willing to offer their
time and labor so again we're hoping to do as much as we earn Ed has connections with, he has with
painting you know so hopefully the varnish and all of the painting type materials we can also have
donated. So we're just going to go out and try to solicit more volunteers and try to solicit as many
donations as we can. And what we're hoping to do with that is actually similar to Excelsior. They have
li
. City Council Meeting - April 23, 2001
that playground next to the lake down, right on the main lake them in Excelsior. And you can see
everybody that donated like Norwest Bank and stuff. They actually have plaques there to show that they
donated so we're kind of thinking maybe we would do something similar. Just to recogniz~ them for
their donations. You might be aware that on Lake Minnewashta, I don't know how many years they've
been doing it because I've only been in the neighborhood for a couple years, but they actually go around
to get donations for fireworks, to do their own fireworks on Latke Minnewashta so we're thinking that if
they can do that, that we should be able to get donations even from people that live on the lake and from
the neighborhood as well so.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you for addressing that. Do you know in reference to some of the volunteers
in the neighborhood, what kind of a skill level you're going to be able to bring in? -I'm heating our
liability issue as far as our ending up with some of, you know if you were to put me up on a roof we
would definitely have a liability issue.
Deanna Bunke~: I don't know if they're professionally licensed. You know I'm sure the builder
would be, and his contractors would be if we can get any time from them. My husband built on a third
car garage on our previous home. Put on cedar shakes, did things like that. He's not a licensed
contractor but he's done a lot of work like that. I know Ed, in his previous home built a gazebo and did
all the construction on that so, I don't know as far as licensed but I do know we have a lot of people in
the neighborhood. They build their own decks. They do a lot of things around the home. You know
they're handyman type people so as far as truly skilled and that's their profession, I'm not sure.
Councilman Ayotte: One of the things I would request is if we could, and when a motion is made I might
throw in the thought of having a QA plan and a safety plan integrated into Option 4. That it may not be a
bad idea that when the plan is put together that there'd he reaflly heavy staff review by our city engineer
to ensure that if there is potential issue or potential concern with some of the things that are going on,
that they can introduce some of the safety parameters so we're not causing ourselves a problem I'll
probably throw that out when we're ask to vote on this so, but would you be receptive to working in that
kind of constraint to have the plan reviewed by city engineers to make sure you haven't had any hiccups.
Deanna Bunkelman: ff they're not going to charge us.
Councilman Ayotte: She set me up.
Mayor Jansen: Any other questions?
Councilman Ayotte: I-Ieck no, geez.
Deanna Bunkelman: And I definitely wanted to give Ed an opportunity...
Mayor Jansen: Sure, thank you.
Ed Kling: Hello, I'm glad to be here tonight. Thank you for inviting me up.
Mayor Jansen: If you could state your name and address just for the record please.
Ed Kling: Okay my name's Edward Kling, 4169 Red Oak Lame.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you.
12
City Council Meeting - April ~3, 2001
Ed Kling: I think you know when we look at the building and what it has to offer and also the support
that we're getting from our people in the neighborhood, and then also the opporumity to have businesses
contribute to this building, I think what we have, or what we really need to look at is, when we see
communities, some of the small towns that surround the Twin Cities are surviving on the fact that they
have an appeal, an aesthetic that you can't get by building a new building. And some of these small
towns are surviving only on the fact that they have bed and breakfast to bring people in and now they're
starting to thrive on that. And by looking at this building we can rebuild this building and have
something that we couldn't get by building a new building. And I see as we go forward we have more
and more support and there is a lot of excitement and there are a lot of options that we have to cut costs
and to get this building built. I don't think that's a problem. Concerning the liability, I don't know if
there' s any way that we can maybe draw up a liability waiver for those that are going to be involved, and
then whenever we do go forward to do any construction on the building, make sure that there is someone
from our local neighborhood committee on site to wake sure that if there is anybody there, that we have
the liabilities signed and we have everybody accounted for. If that is an option.
Mayor Jansen: That's an interesting question. If we could maybe have Roger speak to that.
Roger Knutson: Mayor, I think what I'm hearing tonight is kind of a concept for a project. You'll need
to have professional supervision of anyone working in that building, whether that's staff or a hired
consultant, contractor, whoever, you'll need someone who's responsible to the city to do that and you'll
need a project budget and you'll need to know exactly how much money you're spending and all that
before you actually go over there and start working, I would assume. So yeah, all these things you'll
need and waivers aren't that effective.
Scott Botcher: They're not worth the paper they're written on.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Roger Knutson: I wouldn't go quite that...
Scott Botcher: Save the trees, don't even write them.
Ed Kling: Okay, that's all I have.
Mayor Jansen: Appreciate it. And appreciate your stepping up to co-chair.
Ed Kling: Thank you and I have, you know this if my first time tonight but I have committed to seeing to
it that if there is something that needs to be taken care of to spearhead any issues that would become our
responsibility, and give as much time as I possibly can to make sure that things get done. Okay?
Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you very much. Bringing this back to council, I'm watching our city
manager agitatedly fidgeting over here as he's going to explain to us all of the i ~mpracficalifies of what
we're trying to accomplish, which is why we have hired professional staff. And I guess before he takes a
crack at it, I know all of us are sitting up here looking at the practicalities of the project and trying to
weigh that with the emotional side of it and I'm intrigued that apparently every time this project has been
debated, it's been the same thing. You've got 50/50 and the e-mails that we have gotten in opposition to
our renovating this have been just as a_damant and practical as the ones who want to save it and renovate
it. It's good arguments on both sides. And I think what you're going to be hearing our city manager
13
City Council Meeting - April 23, 2001
explaining to us that in order to do a project like this, there are going to be some significant issues that as
a city we may have to come up with some answers for them. As Councilman Ayotte was pointing out,
the whole liability issue on the city's parc I think everyone here as residents can certainly appreciate that
you don't want to see the city put in a worse financial position than we are currently because we got all
warm and fuzzy about the round house and put our necks on the line and everyone's tax dollars on the
line in order to do something with it. So there may be some issues that you're going to hear us having to
address in order to actually put this together. And I'm hearing from our city attorney that we may have to
have a more concrete plan in place if in fact we do choose to go forward with this project, So with that
I'm going to turn the practical aspects over to.
Scott Botcher: Dr. No.
Mayor Jansen: Dr. No.
Scott Botcher: That was a great movie. He had those gloves, remember that? I thought you were Dr. No
Bob? Sorry to take your thunder. I'm just, I'm perplexed by this. Not being the emotional guy, although
I told Todd Gerhardt I'm going to be Alan Alda the last month just to see how it feels. Todd, how much
have we spent on design so far of this, I mean the drawing of the specs for this thing?
Todd Hoffman: Approximately $15,000 with the testing. Materials testing.
Scott Botcher: So we ultimately could have 65 grand sunk into this thing and not know if we're going to
have anything when we're done. Is that correct? Yes, it is correct So my question is, is there anything
else in the entire city that you would spend $65,000 on and now know that you're going to get anything
for it? I mean I think that's just a fundamental issue. I mean we've worked so hard to deal with financial
issues and it' s a passion of mine, I admit. And Bruce is gone. And ceminly the volunteerism aspect that
Todd has mentioned is good, but you can have that same level of volunteefism on other thinG absent the
exposure that the city could potentially undertake if Option 4 were to be followed. The numbers that axe
in this recommendation are significantly different, and I'm not sure where they came from. I know Todd
got them from the $50,000 or less but you all were pretty clear I thought in your last motion what you
wanted to do. And I'm admittedly a little confused as to how we got from where that motion was back
in, was it March, February, to where we are now. Just reading you all.
Mayor Jansen: Well and we haven't discussed the dollars yec
Scott Botcher: Understood.
Mayor Jansen: So, you're correct.
Scott Botcher: And you're right~ The e-malls that I got, and I've got copied on I think almost every e-
mail you all got, Linda's right. There's a si~tmificant number of people in that neighbor also who have
said geez, you know we'd really like to have the money invested into something perhaps with more
utility. More functionality. Something we can use. I still question, even at $65,000 the cost per square
foot of this thing and the functional utility of what you're going to have when you're done if it gets
pulled off.
Councilman Ayotte: What would be the cost per square foot at $50,000?
14
City Council Meeting - April 23, 2001
Scott Botcher: Well it's at 65. At 100, well I'm just roughing it out. At a hundred and a quarter, it was
about 275, ifI remember from last time. So cut it in half roughly. That's a si~ificant amount. I mean
again, the library's out there at a hundred and a half.
Mayor Jansen: And just let me add, council's original motion at the February 12~ meeting was that the
project cost had begun and had been budgeted at $40,000, because the referendum money went over and
above. So we were at 40 and the motion was to then take out of the 40, the 15,000 that's already been
spent. So then it would be in fact 25,000 so the city had a cap originally of 40. Now as it's come back
up through the public hearing process, if council wants to consider the cap 50, it's whether you consider
it 50 or 40 but.
Scott Botcher: Well, that's what came out of the Park and Rec Commission.
Mayor Jansen: Correct.
Scott Botcher: I mean it's up to the council.
Mayor Jansen: Yeah, but the original motion was 40 less the 15.
Councilman Ayotte: And it's 600 square feet. 600 square feet?
Todd Hoffrmm: I don't recall what the total square footage was?
Councilman Ayotte: 600 square feet?
Todd Hoffman: I don't recall.
Mayor Jansen: He doesn't remember.
Councilman Ayotte: Does anybody?
Mayor Jansen: But I wasn't meaning to cut you off, but I'm agreeing on the dollars. That we had a
discrepancy on the dollars.
Scott Botcher: I mean I just again, trying to watch what we do with our budget. And looking at the
expenditures and tax dollars as an investment for the fmure of our community, this is one that quite
frankly from the beginning, I've been very open about it I simply don't get and I think we're simply
straggling with the emotions of it and that's why we can't just say you know, because I think co~itively
each one of you looking at this on a sheet of paper, if you didn't know what it was for, would say there's
no way in god's green earth we'll spend the taxpayers money on this type of project. But it's up to you.
That's why you get the big bucks.
Mayor Jansen: Yep. And you're right.
Councilman Peterson: One more question. Todd, do you recall what the demolition cost is going to be?
Todd Hoffman: Again the demolition costs were just an estimate but.
Councilman Ayotte: Just under 20,000 1 thought.
15 -
City Council Meeting - April 23, 2001
Todd Hoffman: Yeah. 15 to 20,000, depending on the landfill costs. Those are the biggest costs. The
landfill. The lead in paint material and the exterior.
Councilman Peterson: Okay, good.
Councilman Ayotte: You bring up a good point. If we have $20,000 on the table and if we have the
opportunity of mining into a functional facility for a little bit more, that's a reasonable consideration.
But I'm not about to feel good about spending 100 plus dollars per square foot. That's my hard point, but
I think there is a, if we can figure out a way to get the material, and it sounds like you've got a handle on,
which is your biggest cost. And if you get free labor, and if there was a set aside to offset the cost of
demo, given a timeline, that might be doable. The 50K, Mr. Botcher's got a very, very good point, even
though he doesn't have a tie on tonight.
Scott Botcher: Steve took it.
Councilman Ayotte: Well you trade off. Last time you didn't have a tie on. Playing the Steve McQueen
look, but I'd be receptive to looking hard at Option 4 if we could lower the threshold a bit.
Mayor Jansen: If we lowered the threshold a bit?
Councilman Peterson: Cost expenditure?
Councilman Ayotte: Yeah.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Scott Botcher: You know maybe the way to do it, if you want to do this, since I'm the only one who's
Dr. No. I think Bob's point of having a budget plan is excellent. And safety plan, absolutely. Because
we have, our butt's in the sling out there. But I think: you know if a budget could be put together, we
need to confirm the demolition cost because frankly we haven't done that. It's a wag. We don't know
what it is. We need to confirm that amount and maybe the way to do it is to have, you know a dollar for
dollar match with the volunteer contribution or in kind sort of stuff so we're not just handing a check
over for 50 grand and we say okay, folks go do your thing and they come back and they say we've got the
windows. We've got whatever and we've got in kind labor in the amount of, estimated amount, fill in the
blank. We then can budget from that. Measure against that then a more firm demolition cost because
again we still have some internal debates as to is lead really in that paint to the extent that it's preported
to be by a single individual, which we then need to confirm. We need to confirm the handling of that
stuff. But if you really wanted to do it, you really want to spend the taxpayers money, that's what I
would do.
Councilman Peterson: I'd spin that a different way. I'd say let's find out what demolition cost is and I'd
be willing to spend that towards the project, nothing more.
Scott Botcher: And you could do that as well.
Councilman Ayotte: That would be a reasonable thing to do. Do you follow that? Ms. I_,aah is looking.
16
City Council Meeting - April 23, 2001
Mayor Jansen: Well I guess what I'm looking at is what we said on February 12t~ we would approve, and
this went back to the Park and Rex: Commission with the understanding that thi~ was our motion. You
know 40,000 was the budget. We'll deduct whatever's been spent from that. The 15,000. It did go back
for the public input and they stepped forward. You know 50% againat, 50% for, but we have a couple of
individuals who are willing to organi?e thia and maybe go out for the contributions and part of our
motion or part of the direction and summary that we gave was that there would be additional funding and
volunteer work coming from the community. So I do appreciate the city manager's suggestion that we do
roll up a budget and see what in fact those numbers could conceivably come to, and the residents then
will see what we need in kind and conceivably then also in a financial contribution, and we know before
we get started, that we can accomplish the project. Because the other concern I'm hearing is we don't
want to get partially into renovation and be coming back for more dollars or having this delayed for a
year or two as we try to come up with more contributions to get it accomplishecL I think we need to get it
accomplished in a timely manner.
Scott Botcher: And I think to roll up the budget though, you're going to need to have the input from the
neighborhood as to what volunteer contribution, in kind contribution they can come up with. I don't
think it can go the other way. You have to identify what is really out them non-cash and then roll it back.
That's going to take time. Yeah, materials and in kind labor and that's going to take some time and that
probably means, unless they really move fast, and they might be able to, you know it may mean this thing
doesn't get started right away this spring because I practically don't see it happening. It's going to take
time to do that networking to see what you can dig up. But if ultimately the goal is, on the part of the
supporters to save the building, then it would seem to me that that commitment of time is a good
investment if ultimately they can save the building that they want to save.
Councilman Ayotte: Is there a horizon date though that we have to put on it where we have to face the
reality of dealing, take the building down? Can we wait until your roll up budget showing the material
in kind and so forth, to what point? How far out before the building starts to degrsrlate? We have more
lead base paint flaking and is there a problem in waiting too long?
Todd Hoffman: I don't think so. Not in the time frame people were talking about.
Mayor Jansen: I don't think a few months, correct?
Scott Botcher: It's fully depreciated Bob.
Councilman Labatt: So let's try to recap what's here. So you're going to deduct the $15,000-already
spend off the 40 that we've set the budget for back in January? Whenever the last meeting was.
Mayor Jansen: Yep, that's what we said on February 12~h.
Councilman Labatt: Is that almost water over the bridge or under the bridge that's akeady been spent a
year ago before?
Mayor Jansen: It was just spent. It was just now spent on the engineering, in order to get to the
documents for the $125,000 bill.
Scott Botcher: Second haft of last year probably.
Councilman Labatt: Second haft of last year, 2000.
17
City Council Meeting - April 23, 2001
Mayor Jansen: As a part of this whole planning process and budget process on the building.
Scott Botcher: Part of the capital budget.
Councilman Labatt: Okay. So then, if I'm hearing it right, we may be willing to match in kind
contributions, right? Up to and exceed not a certain amount or is it the up to the demolition cost?
Mayor Jansen: Councilman Peterson had mentioned the demolition cost. Are you comfortable with...
Councilman Peterson: I suspect it's pretty close so I don't think we have an issue. I think the answer
would be yes.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. So it'd be that 40,000 that we'd be looking at as the match.
Councilman Peterson: Minus the 15.
Councilman Labatt: Minus the 15.
Councilman Peterson: So you've got 35 you're dealing with.
Councilman Labatt: 25.
Mayor Jansen: 25. We will totally have 40,000 .into the project.
Councilman Peterson: Exactly.
Mayor Jansen: In taxpayer dollars.
Councilman Labatt: Okay. So this group of residents is going to be empowered here. They're going to
go out there and work their behinds off and come up with in kind of contributions along with maybe
some monetary contributions from certain corporation. What are we going to do about that? Are we
willing to match that? If they come up with 15, 18, $20,000 in in-kind contributions and they go out and
get monetary contributions of 10, 12,000, 15,000, whatever they can come up with, are we going to put
our mouth behind those contributions too?
Councilman Peterson: No we can't. We can't go up over $50,000 so.
Mayor Jansen: The city contribution cannot be above 50.
Scott Botcher: Without applying for bidding.
Mayor Jansen: Would be the maximum. I'm saying I'm comfortable having the city's contribution of
taxpayer dollars into this project being the original 40,000. They will then yep, they will roll up the plans
as to what this is going to take now to put this together and the residents will know what they need to
come up with in either in-kind or the balance of the financial in order to get it done.
Councilman Labatt: So the balance this group only has to work with is 25,000?
18
City Council Meeting - April 2.3, 2001
Mayor Jansen: Correct, because we've already spent 15.
Councilman Labatt: Okay. I just want to make sure that that's clear to them.
Councilman Peterson: And we also have to consider, I think a lot of that 25 that' s left is going to be
spent on supervising.
Mayor Jansen: That's what I'm hearing.
Councilman Peterson: ...requirement of the project fi-om the city perspective.
Scott Botcher: Well and if that' s an option the city wants us to pursue, we can poke around and try to
come up with some other options but there cem6nly will be some expense to that. How usable are the
existing plans going to be if, and I think you mentioned Todd, maybe the windows on the top come out.
Are the plans still functional if you start deviating fi'om them with any siLmificamce?
Councilman Peterson: You don't have construction plans yet, do you? All you have is design plans.
Todd Hoffman: Design and bidding plans. What Deanna said is they're hoping to keep that clear story
glass. I would think that the plans would be very functional for use as a part of the project. If I could, I
know you're talking about a $40,000 budget. The original allocation from the CIP was $40,000. Then
the study was undertaken by Locus about what it would take and that's when the cost went up to around
80. Previous councils did allocate an additional $40,000 out of the CIP for an expenditure approved at
that time of up to $80,000 for the project. And then that's where the recommendation to increase it to
120 came to the City Council so to date on the books we have an $80,000 allocation for the projecc
Mayor Jansen: As I understood it, $40,000 was from the original park and trail referendum; which was
over spent and that's where we lost then the 40,000. It would have been council's prerogative to decide
to pull that 40,000 then additionally out of CIP, but what I'm hearing this cotmcil say again, and they said
on February 12~', the $40,000 was the project budget that this council was comfortable working from.
And that was pan of our s~ statement that we had made as this was going back.
Councilman Ayotte: And the large pan of that is, going back to the cost per square foot. I keep going
back to that.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you.
Councilman Ayotte: You know it would be inappropriate for us to set a cost per square foot at the levels
we had originally. Just not acceptable.
Mayor Jansen: The other pan of what I want to make sure everyone understands is this goes back into
the planning process. Is as I read through the r~inutes, there still seems to be some confusion over what
the final building is going to provide for the neighborhood. I'm still seeing some people even in the e-
mails thinking that there are going to be restrooms and not port-a-potties. That this building's going to
amount to more than we're actually accomplishing so if we can make sure that pan of the communication
as this goes forward includes the fact that this is not going to be a functioning facilities building. So
everyone' s clear. Does anyone want to take a crack at a motion? I can call off a couple of the points that
I heard mentioned. The supervisory responsibility. Making sure that the city has a qualified supervisor
19
City Council Meeting - April 23, 2001
on site during the project. Quality assurance plan that Councilman Ayotte brought up. The safety
considerations with the liability aspect and getting that addressM.
Councilman Ayotte: Let me give it a shot. I make a motion to approve Option 4 with the following
caveats. That the total value of the project from a bottom's up budget would not exceed $40,000 and
would include as a minimum a safety plan, a QA plan and meet all the constraints normally exposed, that
a building' s normally exposed to for a project under the supervision of the city engineer and planner.
Did I miss anything?
Scott Botcher: How do we account for the salaries of those 2 individuals? Are they part of the budget?
Mayor Jansen: It all has to come out of the budget.
Scott Botcher: Are they part of this budget? It' s a question, so we know because those two costs.
Councilman Labatt: How are we applying it to like the library or another similar building?
Mayor Jansen: Is it a staff person that's on site that you're thinking can supea'vise? I mean you're
talking.
Scott Botcher: I'm just responding to his motion. Whatever those costs would be a staff pemon, how do
we account those against that budget?
Mayor Jansen: Okay, we've got a motion on the table. We need a second so that we can go to
discussion, if we want to discuss the motion.
Councilman Labatt: Second.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, I have a second. Not to interrupt the discussion but now if we can discuss the
motion.
Councilman Peterson: I don't see it as a city person. Staff person as much as you know a licensed
contractor is frae, and they may get that volunteered. They may not. But we have to be, the project plan
has to have the appropriate, the supervision, the city or otherwise in there. So I don't think It has to be a
city person.
Councilman Ayotte: Doesn't the staff however have to review that project? As any other project, and
won't that consume x number of man hours? I think Scott brings up a point there.
Mayor Jansen: Yeah, I think the review of the project, I would be okay with that. Just coming on.
Councilman Peterson: Yeah, I don't see it as an issue. We're talking about a building project's
provision that I'm concerned about.
Mayor Jansen: Which is more intense as far as the amount of time. Legally, do we need to have this
supervisor be a staff representative or a city representative versus just a licensed contractor?
Roger Knutson: No, but what I was, what Scott and I were talking about. When you're actually, during
construction, if you have volunteers there, you're going to want to have a professional. A real, honest to
City Council Meeting - April 23, 2001
goodness contractor, someone to supervise the volunteers on staff any time a vohmteer is there maless
they're, as I said, cutting the grass or planting flowers. You don't need that, but if they're in the building,
if they're up on a ladder, I Wink you're going to want someone knowledgeable in the trades. Someone
there to supervise it to make sure it's the proper safety precautions are taken and kids aren't up on the
ladders with their parents and things are being handled properly. So I think that, I don't.know. I'll
venture a guess, I bet you don't have anyone on the staff that has that time available to do that so I'd
assun~ you're going to have to hire someone.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. So staff will need to take that into consideration when they're putting the budget
plan together on the building.
Councilman Ayotte: So amend the motion to include professional tra_d_e supervision on job site.
Mayor Jansen: Do I have a second of the amendment?
Councilman Labatt: Second.
Mayor Jansen: Are there any other issues with.
Scott Botcher: And that service could be donated as well Bob. Imean unders~ if there's a
professional trades person who has the abilities to provide supervisory services and they wish to donate
the services, that would be great. That we can do that.
Mayor Jansen: As part of your motion when you noted the 40,000 as the not to exceed, is that less the
already spent 15,000.
Councilman Ayotte: Spent 15,000.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Just as clarification. Any other questions or comts on the motion?
Councilman Ayotte: I hope not.
Councilman Ayotte moved, Councilman Labatt to approve Option 4 for renovation of the round
house building at Roundhouse Park with the following conditions:
lo
The total amount of money allocated for the project ahall not exceed $40,000, including
monies already spent to date.
g
A safety plan, a QA plan and a plan to meet all the constraints normally associated with a
building project such as this shall be submitted prior to constructiom
3. Professional trade supervision shall be provided on the site.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously 4 to 0.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you neighborhood and we're going to wish you luck and obviously to move this
project forward, parks and rex: commission, as well as park and rec staff, coordinating with the
21
City Council Meeting- April 23, 2001
neighborhood in order to pull the plan together and get all the specifications and good luck to all of you
working on the project. It should be a wonderful endeavor. Thank you.
REQUF~T FOR PRELIMINARY PL&T TO SUBDIVIDE LOT 2~ BLOCK 2~ CtIANItASSEN
ESTATES 2~ Ar)DmON INTO TWO LOTS ~ VARIAN~ FOR AN Ex~.qTING
DUPLEX~ 8004 AND 8006 DAKOTA AVENUE~ RQBERT PA~.
/ulie Hoium: Thank you Mad.m Mayor, councilrne~. Fm just going to give a brief backgrotmd of
how we got to this point in the subdivision request. Staff met with the applicants who owned the duplex.
They are requesting to split their property.
Mayor Jansen: Julie, not to interrupt. Could you pull the microphone a titeh closer?
Julie Hoium: Sure. Is that better?
Scott Botcher: Yeah.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you.
Sulie Hoiurm They currently occupy the duplex. They live in one haft and rent the other half. They wish
to split the duplex down the center so they can sell one unit with the property. One-half of the property.
This property is zoned residential single family. This requires a ~ lot area of 15,000 square feet,
with a minimum frontage of 90 feet. This district also permits a single family detached homes with 2
enclosed parking structures. What we have in this case is a duplex that is a non-conforming use, and a
subdivision of this duplex would create two lots with non-conforming lot areas, non-conforming
frontages, non-conforming parking requirements and possibly some non-conforming setbacks. Initially,
when this application came through, staff considered several different options to subdivide this property.
Any option would require variances of the previous stated requirements. On March 20~ the Planning
Commission reviewed the, and tabled thi~ request so that the additional inf~on could be provided.
Staff went back and looked at the entire subdivision where thi~ duplex is located, Chanhassen Estates. It
appears that this subdivision was initially created as a planned unit development. Staff believes that this
subdivision was referenced as a P-l, planned residential development in the 1972 zoning ordinance.
However there is no record. Staff has not been able to find any record of a rezoning to residential single
family. From everything we've found it's always been R-1 on the records. When looking at the
characteristics of Chanhassen Estates staff also discovered that a majority of the lots within the
subdivision are non-conforming with the residential single family district require~. Several of the
single family lots are, have small lot sizes. Approximately 95 of the 130 lots within this subdivision do
not meet the 15,000 square feet requirement. Approximately 62 do not meet the frontage requirements.
This is just some examples that show this subdivision does have legal non-conforming lots within it.
And what this means is that any exterior expansion, modification or addition to these, any stmctm'es on
these lots would require a variance and for this, one remedy that we suggested was to consider rezoning
Chanhassen Estates to a planned unit development and in addition the 5 duplexes that are located near
the applicant's to planned unit development. The ordinance does state that no variances are required for
non-conforming lots if they me~ a 75% of the minimum requirements. Within Chanhassen Estates 16 of
the 130 lots would not meet the 75% for the lot area, and approximately 20 for the frontage would not
meet the frontage 75% rule. In some cases the same lot does not meet both of them. If Chaahas~
Estates was rezoned to a planned unit development, some of the advantages would be that a majority of
the lots would then be conforming lots and would not require variances for any additions.
Approximately 7 would remain legal non-conforming lots. However they would meet the 75% rule. It
CrYYOF
CHi EN
690 G~y Center Drive
PO Box147
Cha~, Minnesota 55317
Phone
952.93Z1900
General Fax
952.93Z5739
fi~g/neerh~g iq~rtme, t Fax
952.93Z9152
Bu&h'ng Department Fax
952.934.2524
Web Site
wwu~ c i.&a~dsusot, mn. ~
TO:
FROM:
DATE:
Todd Gerhardt, City Manager
September 26, 2001
SUB J:
Park and Recreation Commission Recommendation; Roundhouse
Neighborhood Restoration Project
The Commission was informed on September 25t~ that the neighborhood
initiative to restore the roundhouse did not get off the g~ound this past summer.
~a Bunkleman, the project leader, experienced an extended family health
issue over the summer and was unable to put everything together. Anticipating
that Ms. Bunldeman will be asking the City Council for a time extension to
complete the work, the Commission made the following recommendation:
Park and Recreation Commissioner Karlovich moved that the Park
and Recreation Commissian recommend that the Ci~ Counc~ consi&rr
granting a one-year exte~n on the Roundhouse renovation project,
affording Deanna Bunkleman the necessary time to mobilize her group
and neighborhood in order to complete the work. Commissioner Howe
seconded the motion and it passed 6 to 1, with Commissioner Moes
voting against.
Manager's Comments:
If the City Council is considering granting Ms. Bunkelman an extension, I
would recommend that you request the following information prior to granting
the extension:
Work Plan: A work plan should be provided that details the scope of the
project from start to completion. The plan should include budget,
materials, subcontractor list, building permits, etc.
2. Project Schedule: The project schedule should include a month-to-
month account of the work to be completed.
3. Commitment: Each project team volunteer should state their
commitment to the project and its completion.
Deadline: All of the information must be submitted to the City Council
by November 12. If not, staff should be directed to prepare the site for
demolition by the end of November 2001.
c: Park and Recreation Commission
City Council Meeting -October 8, 2001
Receive Commission Minutes:
- Planning Commission Minutes dated September 18, 2001
j. Approval of Designating Southern LRT Trail as a Snowmobile Trail.
All voted in favor and' the motion carried unanimously 3 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIQNS: UPDATE ON RQUNDHOU~E RENQyATION PROJECT.
DEANNA BUNKLEMAN.
Public Present:
Name Address
Michael Howe
Ed Kling
Deanna Bunkelman
2169 Stone Creek Trail
4169 Red Oak Lane
4191 Red Oak Lane
Deanna Bunkelman: Hi. Deanna Bunkelman, 4191 Red OakLane.
Mayor Jansen: Thanks for joining us.
Deanna Bunkelman: Thank you. Here to give an update on the round house restoration project. And I
have too prepared comments because I have a lot to say so I just want to make sure I say it all. Although
I'd rather not talk about this, I feel I need to state it for the record. When I was here in late April my
mother-in-law was on the upswing once again with her ongoing 7 year battle with cancer. She had just
been released from the hospital after a one month stay, and thi.~ time was worst than others. They
actually had read her her last words and had started to prepare her for hex last days but once again she
pulled through. She's been battling it for 7 years so. However, in early May she went downhill again
and was put in hospice care until her death in July.
Mayor Jansen: We're sorry to hear that.
Deanna Bunkelman: Thank you. And then closer to home my 4 year old son was battling an illness that
started with whooping cough symptoms to double ear infections, a sinus infection and an awfial cough
that made us afraid to go to bed at night not knowing if we'd make it through the night. And this lasted
for the month of July and August until he was actually diagnosed with serious allergies 'and asthma that
we now have under control. So as you can see I did not have the opporttmity to devote a lot of time to
the round house this past summer as I had hoped, although it was on my mind a lot.
Mayor Jansen: You've had a rough summer.
Deanna Bunkelman: Yes. So I just want it for the record to let you guys know.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you.
Deanna Bunkelman: I had definitely intended when I left the me6ting in April to devote time to it but
unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity. But I do want to let you know what we have done, because
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
we have done some stuff. We've had a rendering drawing done according to the original restoration
plans from the architect. And I don't know ff other than putting it right here for you to see. This is
actually what the round house currently looks like.
Mayor Jansen: We actually have our monitors so you would be able to set it down, although the big
screen isn't working.
Deanna Bunkelman: Can you get it in? Oh, in your monitors.
Mayor Jansen: Yes, and it would be broadcast also, though the audience can't see it.
Dean/aa Bunkelman: Okay. This is what the round house looks like today, as I'm sure you're well
aware. And everybody can see that?
Mayor Jansen: Yes.
Deanna Bunkelman: Okay. ·
Mayor Jansen: And you're certainly welcome to pass those around if you'd like for the audience.
Deanna Bunkelman: I apologize for getting them more smaller. I thought it would be.
Mayor Jansen: No, no, that's okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: And can you guys see this one okay?
Mayor Jansen: Certainly, yep.
Deanna Bunkelman: This is actually according to the plans that were drawn by the architect. This is a
rendering drawing that is showing what the round house would look like according to those plans and
what we would like to carry forward and have the opportunity to restore it to. If you have any questions
about that, by all means you can let me know.
Todd Hoffman: Someone in your group prepared these for you?
Deanna Bunkelman: Actually someone in our neighborhood does this for a living and so he has done
this for us free of charge'.
Councilman Ayotte: And did it free?
Deanna Bunkelman: And did it free of charge. Yes. And actually I have two copies of this, just to kind
of give you a feel. There's actually going to be cedar shakes on the roof and so this would show what the
cedar shakes would look like at probably after a year or two because as you know ceziar shakes, they do
change color. This is more what the roof would look like. It has the cedar shakes on and what the
original plan was to actually restore the siding to just do a natural finish. It is ! think Douglas Fir or
Norway Fir so we weren't sure exactly what it would look like. So this is just showing you again exact
same building structure, just different color.
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Mayor Jansen: Well it' s wonderful someone was able to prepare those for you. Thank you for sharing
those.
Deanna Bunkelman: Yep. We've started to also make contact with the local universities, technical
colleges, contractors, architects and carpenters to check into their volunteer programs and at this point
there have been no cost to the city. Everything we've done has been free of charge. I feel that I left the
City Council meeting a bit naive last time, but optimistic and I'm hoping to leave this meeting still
optimistic but not quite so n~ve. I feel that Chanhassen should feel blessed that Ben Lane brought this
wonderful and interesting piece of... The City has sat on this for the past 6 years but now expects a group
of volunteers to turn it around within less than a year. If given ample time and the opportunity we're
looking for minimal money from the city in hopes for donafigus from local businesses and people, but
this takes time. Over the summer I had 3 colleagues visit me from the Maple Grove, Plymouth and
Buffalo area. They're all similar in age to myseff. Without any prompting or discussion about the round
house, they all wanted to know the history and bac~und of the building. They were very enthusiastic
and curious about the structure, only for me to tell them the little that I know so that's just showing you
how people, they come to the area and they're just curious about what the building is all about Everyone
looks at the round house through different eyes. Some see the dollars signs and what it's going to cost to
make it presentable. Others just see what they call an eyesore, and others like myseff see an oppommity
to restore history. I'm very curious about it's origin. What railroad did it serve because it actually was a
water tower on a railroad? Was it here in Minnesota, the Midwest? Where actually was it? This thing
was put up in the late 1940's here in Chanhassen. At this point we don't know where it originally came
from and I think given the opportunity it would be fascinating to find that out. I personally really have no
ties to the round house. I've only lived in the Chanhassen area for the last 3 ½ years so I'm not doing this
because I've lived in the area and grew up. I'm just doing it because I just find it fascinating and just the
history behind it and I think it would just be a big asset for Chanhassen to have. To recap, all we would
like is ample time and the opportunity to restore the round house. We see it as an opportunity to not only
make the building functional for our city but also as a way to restore his~. We would also like an
explanation of the perceived urgency we feel in doing so since we do not see any financial burden to the
city in it's current state. Thanks for the oppommity to once again od_dress you with this effort.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you. Appreciate that. Any questions for Deanna while we have her at the podium
council?
Councilman Ayotte: With respect to, the only thing that I think is of i~ concern. We had lead
based paint. It's chipping. I understand that the internal degradation has been stopped. We got a cover
on the roof and so forth so is it true that the only thing that we have a concern about is the continued
chipping of lead based paint on the exterior?
Mayor Jansen: I think that's probably more a staff question versus.
Councilman Ayotte: Whoever.
Deanna Bunkelman: I believe so but...
Mayor Jansen: Well, you're looking for a technical versus the volunteer aspect
Todd Hoffman: The report we had talked about the lead in paint on the exterior of the building...I
believe we talked about the possibility of putting a fence around it to guard against any ingestion. It's a
long shot to think that we would have that occurring, but it is a park and a playground so you know in the
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
short term here to put a fence up around it I think would be something that the council should consider.
The inside has been dried ouc We put a tarp on the top of it and it's really not hurting anything.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Answer to your question councilman?
Councilman Ayotte: Not really but I'll deal with staff after the fact. With respect to actually starting to
get some activities going, our manager has made some cormneuts. Work plan. Project Schedule. So on
and so forth. Can you talk towards that on what's going to ha~ when and obviously with the winter
coming upon us, I suspect you won't see any actual activity on the round house until the spring?
Deanna Bunkelman: Yeah, our number one goal at this point, especially over the winter months would
be contacting the businesses to get donations. What our goal is to try to do this with ~ dollars
from the city. You know whatever donations we can get, we're going to try to gels I know in April I had
talked about the park that was built in Excelsior. In the Excelsior Commnns area. We do have the
contact of the person that actually led that effort. That was completely by donations and volunteer so
we're going to try to get that individual on board. We also have names of other individuals that they go
out and get a lot of donations so we're hoping that that's what we're going to do over the summer
months. So as far as a budget, I don't know if we'd be able to come with a budget by November 12e".
We can definitely come with a project plan with ~es and things that we're going to try to hit as far
as the different contacts we're going to make and have a target dote for all the different contacts and
donations. But again budget wise I'm not sure if we'll have that by November 12~h.
Mayor Jansen: So as far as the different items that the city manager listed, do you feel that you could sit
down with staff and work through this as far as giving them a better ide~ realizing that you lost your
summer as far as doing some of this preparation- It's really just the minimal planning, I would say that
they're looking for to see what kind of an effort you can actually bring together. Obviously you're going
to need a tremendous amount of labor and whether or not you'll be able to motmt that effort from out of
the neighborhood. Do you feel that at this point you would have the time to be able to dedicate to that to
provide that information by the 12t~?
Deanna Bunkelman: So just come up with a work plan or what are you referring to?
Mayor Jansen: Do you have the staff report by any chance? Okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: I forgot to bring it up.
Mayor Jansen: That's okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: Yeah, the work plan with the details of the scope from the start to completiom Part
of the work plan I believe we can do. As far as the budget, I'm not sum, or the subcontractor list because
again we're trying to contact people to find out how many people we can get as a volunteer.
Mayor Jansen: Sure. Do you have a...of the materials that, do you have a feel for the matefiah that you
need yet?
Deanna Bunkelman: As far as the materials we need, yes. But as far as whether they're going to be
completely donated, no.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Deanna Bunkelman: We do have contacts at some of the window manufacturers and we do plan to try to
get donations for the windows. And we do have contacts with some of the local lumber companies.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: So if anything we could probably contact them and maybe get a rough estimate.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: The project schedule, we could probably do something with that. The
commitment, we can definitely list out a bunch of project team volunteers because we do have quite a
few volunteers already. And then the deadline, we can work towards some of this but I can't promise
that we'd have it all done because again I don't feel like I could give you a good budget at this point
without knowing how many donations we're going to raise and who's going to do what.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Because I think largely the concern is that as you stated in your opening, the
project has really been under consideration by the city back and forth for 6 years. And our wanting to
just at least bring it to some sort of, if not conclusion, more definite planning so that as you've got your
schedule put together and people, and we can see the commitment coming together, then at least we can
see that there' s some progress that' s being made. We hear looking for another year extension and is it
feasible? I don't think we're convinced yet that it's feasible and that's what you'll initially be getting
your arms around and we had hoped to maybe be able to take a look at by now is whether or not it is.
And I'm sure we all understand the difficulties that you had as far as this obviously not being a priority.
It couldn't be but we certainly reco~iTe that you care about it enough and you're coming back to it and
wanting to put that commitment in. I'm curious, when you were here previously you had a co-
coordinator. Do you still have the co-coordinator?
Deanna Bunkelman: Yes. He's here tonight.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Okay, great. That's Ed Kling correct?
Ed Kling: Yes.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, great. So just looking to see that you can actually maybe pull some of this
information together I think would be a positive to all of us. At this point we don't have anything to take
a look at as far as whether or not the project is feasible to continue to move it forward, let alone give it a
year extension.
Deanna Bunkelman: Okay. Now what is the, do you have budget planning in November and Decemlxx
that is that why the November 12t~ date is there'/ I guess I'm not sure the November 12~h date.
Mayor Jansen: Mr. Gerhardt.
Todd Gerhardt: Picked out of the air.
Deanna Bunkelman: Oh, I don't like those air things.
City Council Meeting- October 8, 2001
Todd Gerhardt: I just wanted to try to get some closure on it before winter came is why I picked the
November first.
Deanna Bunkelman: And why?
Todd Gerhardt: Why? I just wanted to make sure that we had some direction on this before winter mme.
Deanna Bunkelman: But I guess I'm trying to understand why before winter. What's magical about
winter?
Mayor Jansen: I would venture to say that if anything it's mm'e in response to the council wanting to
have a better feel for whether or not this is feasible. I'm hearing that there's flexibility in that date, but
we would like to put some sort of an end date or an expectation date on thexe for you.
Deanna Bunkelman: And exactly, I'm fine with the target date. I just wondered, you know it's a month
out and you know depending on what your expectations are, I can give you something by November 12~h
but I'm not sure it' s going to be to the extent of what you want. So we can leave that November 12~h
there and I can give you what I have by that point It's just that, it might not be quite as extensive as you
might be looking for. Especially around the budget. That's the bigger piece.
Councilman Ayotte: Well what would be an appropriate date where you would have a roughex manager
budget?
Deanna Bunkelman: ...going to be interesting because the budget to me, I said the budget is going to be
interesting because the whole budget, I suppose we can scope it out and figure out how much it's going
to cost but for how much we are expecting the city to pay it really going to be based on the donations that
we receive so.
Councilman Ayotte: That' s fine. If based on your, I personally would like to see, based on the approach
that you would like to see, what you believe it would cost and what are the assumptions that you go into
the project with.
Deanna Bunkelman: Okay, that's fair.
Councilman Ayotte: If we can see numbers and then from that standpoint if you could put some
reference as to what you think is realistically attainable by the community, at least it gives us an idea of
what we have to go towards for at least a budgetary. I mean we've got to have something. What would
be a date then?
Deanna Bunkelman: Okay. If we work this, and I do this at work all the time so Fm assuming that Fm
just coming up with a high level estimate. It's somewhat, some of it's going to be pulling out of the air
because that's what we do. Then that's fair.
Mayor Jansen: But as far as the budget goes, and as far as the city's concerned, we've already designated
the dollar amount that the city will contribute to and that total was $40,000 and we've spent 15 so we're
at the 25. As far as the budget number, I think more the concern is that you have a handle on exactly
what this project is really going to amount to and again corning back to you really need to see if it's
feasible.
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Deanna Bunkelman: Oh exactly. '
Mayor Jansen: And if anything, what Mr. Gerhardt has outlined here is the same information that we
would move forward with on any project and it would help you then in analyzing whether this is the type
of project that can actually be achieved in a volunteer efforL
Deanna Bunkelman: Right, that's fair.
Todd Gerhardt: I guess I was using that this work was supposed to be done thi.q summer so I would have
assumed that you had estimates and everything else completed. I mean you should be able to compile
this information fairly quickly. And if you haven't, that would give you a good indication if this is a
project that you still want to try to tackle. With the constraints that the council's put on your financially,
have you looked at seeing can you raise that money in the neighborhood or through donations or through
brick sales or whatever or however you're trying to decide how you're going to fund this thing. I mean to
think that you're just going to start thinking about that now is really kind of late in the game I would say.
Deanna Bunkelman: And we've been thinking about it all along.
Todd Gerhardt: Okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: That's why we've been contacting the universities and the colleges and just all the
resources that are out them as far as the different programs that they have.
Mayor Jansen: I think maybe summarizing some of that effort would be helpful for staff to be able to see
exactly the progress that you are making. And maybe be able to give some input to that but then as
you're pulling together your materials and being able to see if you can get some of that donated, I think is
also an important step. Councilman Peterson, did you have any questions or commeuts for Deanna7
Councilman Peterson: No. I think the real issue is already summarized. You have to really look inside
yourself and your group, can you raise enough money because we're already formally said we're only
going to spend this much money so if you can tell us that chances are we can't raise that money, then it's
better for the community to take it down. So I mean that's why part of the reason why we're pushing you
a little bit harder because it is better that if there's a 2% chance that you can get the money then we
should take it down and move ahead with other alternatives for that site. So again we're optimistic we
want to make it happen, but within those parameters.
Deanna Bunkelman: Yep.
Mayor Jansen: And we don't want to send you away discouraged. We certainly understand that you
need time to pull these things together and it will take you time, but I think just maybe being able to come
in and share with the city m~nag~r, ~. C, erha~t what progress you have made and what the plans are
and again it can be more of a joint effort to see if everybody is on track as to where we're going and what
we can accomplish.
Deanna Bunkelman: Okay.
Mayor Jansen: Any other questions for us?
Deanna Bunkelman: I don't think so. Do you have Ed? No.
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Councilman Ayotte: Thanks a lot.
Councilman Peterson: Thank you.
Mayor Jansen: Appreciate that. Is there anyone else, while we're talking about thi.~ that would like to
make any comments? I would just ask that we maybe hold those to 5 minutes or less. I would certainly
be willing to open up the microphone. Okay. Otherwise I'll bring this back to council. Comments and
direction on this project.
Councilman Peterson: I think the city manager's recommendation is succinct.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Councilman Ayotte?
Councilman Ayotte: No other commellts Mayor.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. I too would support the manager's recommendation on this and just ask that the
community volunteers pull tog r that informatio~ Again ~ we certainly appreciate the effort
that you're putting in and thank you for bringing in those renditions. It's encoura~ng to see what that
building could potentially look like were the project to be able to go ahead as you would like to see this
happen, so thank you. With that, Mr. Gerhardt do you need a motion on this or do you have clear
direction?
Todd Gerhardt: No.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Thank you. So moving on on the agenda. Under public hearings we have
vacation of a driveway easement.
Conrad Fislmess: Could I make visitor presentation?
Mayor Jansen: Oh, I'm sorry. Certainly.
Conrad Fiskness: Mayor Jansen, Council membem. I'm Conrad Fiskness representing the Riley-
Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District here tonight of which Fm presi~t and also the representative
for Carver County.
Mayor Jansen: Welcome.
Conrad Fiskness: Thank you.
Mayor Jansen: Sorry I moved ahead so quickly.
Conrad Fiskness: You've got work to do. Following up with the discussion I had with Mr. Ger~t and
Ms. Haak at the tour last month I promised him that I would do what it took to start getting the petition
that the city submitted to us for the basic water management project that came out of the Bluff Creek
Task Force. And just to recap for I think some of the people here, or probably any of you weren't even
around when that all transpired. That corridor study took place in the mid 90's and there was a petition
City Council Meeting - November 13, 2001
our downtown and our core and this proposal is certainly one that I think our conwnunity would be able
to embrace and I certainly hope that everything will come to fxuition as you've projected or that at least
one of your options will come through. You've certainly done some nice things in the community. The
Lake Susan Apartments being Kraus-Anderson and we cemdnly appreciate your corning into Chanhassen
and proposing another project. With that if I could have a motion please.
Councilman Boyle: I'd like to make a motion that we approve the purchase agreement with Krans-
Anderson for the sale of Lots 2 and 3, Block 1, Crossroa~ Plaza 34 Addition.
Mayor Jansen: And a second?
Councilman Peterson: Second.
Councilman Boyle moved, Councilman Peterson seconded to approve the purchase agreement with
Kraus-Anderson for the sale of Lots 2 and 3, Block 1, ~ Pla-a 3~ Addition- Ail voted in
favor and the motion carried unanimously $ to 0.
UPDATE ON RQIJNDHOI, ISE RKNQVATIQN PROJ-ECT.
Public Present:
Name Addre~___
Janet Carlson
Ed Kling
4141 Kings Road
4169 Red. Oak Lane
Mayor Jansen: Staff report please, and then I'm sure we have Deanna Bunkelman with us here this
evening, correct? Or no.
Ed Kling: She actually couldn't make it tonight...
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Thank you.
Todd Gerhardt: Council members, I received Deana's renovation working plan today and I want to
compliment Deana on her efforts here the past month. It's a very detailed project. I am a little curious
on how the bids came in from the 2 different conlxactom. I think you were going to get some quotes on
the lumber and some of the other materials on the project. What I would ask the City Council to do is to
direct staff to sit down with Deana and Todd Hoffxnan when he comes back to go through the work plan
and delineate out what's staff role in this project would be. What Deana'8 role would be in there. And
put together kind of a joint powers agreement. This is an unusual project where you have a group of
residents that are actively out soliciting money for a capital i ~mpmve~t project and then taking the lead
on this. My concerns are our liability from the city's standpoint and also that we have somebody
coordinating the project from a city level too. And so from that staff would like direction from the
council to work with Deana and the city attorney in dm_f~g a joint powers agreement.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions for staff at this point?
Councilman Peterson: How much time do you think you'll need?
City Council Meeting - November 13, 2001
Todd Gerhardt: I would hope that Deans or the group is available, that we should be able to get this back
on our next council meeting.
Councilman Peterson: Do you still want to demolish if you don't. If you don't end that meeting with a
confidence level that it can be executed, do we still want to demolish this year?
Todd Gerhardt: Well again I think the big thing in that is how some of these costs come in and the
group's effort to raise money. It was my belief that the neighborhood was the fund raising group for thi.~
project. That they would go out and solicit funds and have a say in how the building was going to be
designed and used, and that the city would then ultimately maintain it. My only concerns in that is a
liability that we have a group of residents working on a city project and they're kind of taking the lead on
it so I want to make sure that it's clear and that we have the liability side of this project covered.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, so in that joint powers agreean~ it would be more sitting down with the residents
and making sure that everyone' s roles are well defined and we know exactly how the project would
proce~ if it does proceed under their ability to finance and fund raise to finance the project. Correct?
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, I wanted to make it just clear that, you know what everybody's roles are as a part
of this project and that the city' s general liability insuran~ would cover the construction if anybody got
injured or hurt out on the project. Even the fund raising effort of this. Who takes the responsibility for
that and if there's money short or missing or whatever there might be, ! mean there could be a lot of
issues involved in this so. This is a unique project. I don't think the city'S ever beell involved in one
where a neighborhood has come in and built us a building before. The closest project I can come in with
is when the Lion's I think came in and built the pavilion out at Lake/knn. I believe it was the Lion's,
correct Jerry?
That built the pavilion.
Jerry Ruegemer: Who built it or paid for it?
Todd Gerhardt: Built it.
Jerry Ruegemer: I think that was.
Councilman Boyle: American Legion.
Todd Gerhardt: Legion? Okay.
Jerry Ruegemer: That was quite a while ago. Before my time.
Todd Gerhardt: Okay.
Mayor Jansen: So it's just hammering out the specifics at this point so that all parties axe clear as to
where we're going, because actually and again to piggy back what Mr. Gerhardt said, I was very
impressed with the document that Deans pulled together for us. Raised numerous issues as far as some
assumptions, as well as just some questions in general as to what the scope of the project would actually
be, and so then allowing staff and the residents to sit down and maybe really be able to discuss all of
these issues and questions and make sure that the project is moving forward with everyone on the same
page I think is an excellent opporttmity to make sure we've got everything c. oordinat~ properly. Any
other questions for Mr. Gerhardt?
21
City Council Meeting - November 13, 2001
Councilman Ayotte: Yeah Todd, if you could also, one of the concerns I have, and she brought it up.
Deana brought it up under questions and issues but maybe it should be an assumption. The laterals,
water and sewer and all that business. Now if we go ahead and do a good job and the residents take, do a
good job of taking care of the round house, and then we incur a si~ificant expense because of utility
that, that's an known at this point and that really has to be addressed. The other places too with respect
to tax deduction. That's a pretty big assumption there. Can you shed any light on that particular point?
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, that one's, that's the easiest one out of all this. I've talked with Deana twice
about it. She can either establish her 5013C and that's the IRS regulation for.
Councilman Ayotte: The residents would be involved with the establishment of the.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, they would establish their own 5013C for tax deductions, and that's an
administrative responsibility that would fall back on the neighborhood. Or the other option is Brace has
agreed to establish a round house fund here at the city, and it would be a tax deduction if somebody
wanted to donate money towards the project to the city of Chanhassen and they would get that benefit of
the write-off. So, and I've talked with Deana. Have not heakrd back from her on which of those two
options she was going to go through. I think she told me that she had an acago~t that lived in the
neighborhood that might be able to put the paperwork together and so those are some of the things that I
think we need to tie up and get a better handle on and who's just coordinating what.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, great. I tlaink we do have a couple of the coordinators hem this evening and I want
to afford you the opportunity to make any comment that you would like to. Though you may be ~g
what you needed to hear this evening as far as our moving this to staff and asking you to come in and
work with them on really hammering out the specifics at thia point. But if them are any comments you'd
like to share with us, certainly step forward and approach the podium.
Ed Kling: Good evening. My name is Ed Kling. I live at 4169 Red OakLane.
Mayor Jansen: Welcome.
Ed Kling: Thank you. Some of the, obviously Deana has done quite a bit of work on this and I've been
trying to keep up with her on thi~. She's been moving pretty quickly. Really what we wanted to do
tonight was to come to you with a plan that we feel is a workable plan with the amount of time we've
spent on it. We've seen quite a bit of response from our community. People who are willing to donate
time and money. We do have individuals who have already suggested avenues to gaining act, ess to funds
through individuals that live in the comnamity if they can see a workable plan and I think we have that
here. What we really want to do today is show you that we've got a workable plan and move this project
forward. We did have a couple of questions that we did want to have answere~ One is, at some point
we'd like to find out is the electricity still connected to the building7 And is the sewer still connected?
Those would be two things that if they are, then that would be items that we would not have to fund. But
our main goal is, in this project is to secure the asbestos paint on the outside. Do that as soon as possible.
We are getting, in the process right now of getting bids back. One was due today. As well as Mr.
Gerhardt's awareness of the lumber bids and window bids. Those are items that are on our way right
now. We're expecting those either yesterday or today. So the first thing we want to do is secure the
building of any hazardous materials, and then to correct the outward appearance of the buildi~ and that
seems to be the biggest thorn in anybody' s side as far as the neighborhood goes. I don't think anybody's
really too disappointed in the fact that if the building looked good, I think we wouldn't have any
City Council Meeting - November 13, 2001
complaints right now and if it was a functional building I think people would be, you know we have to
look into the future a little bit to see what this building can be. So what we really want to do is secure the
outside of the building and then we can have time to work on the inside. We feel we have a workable
plan. Our goal we feel is measurable, attainable and, measurable, achievable and realistic and that's the
3 elements of a working goal. So at this point if we can get an opporttmity to meet again and really
hammer out some of those details I think we'll have some progress. I know we'll have some progress as
far as getting this project off the ground but the idea of liability is one that we need to discuss. And then
coordinating at a city level, that's what we also want to discuss as well So at this point we'd just like to
request to move the project forward and have another opportunity to take the project forward. I guess at
this point, is there anybody who is, is there any reason that we can't go forward with the project?
Mayor Jansen: Well at this point I guess what staff is suggesting is that now that we have all of this
detail in hand, and there are numerous questions and issues that we need to resolve and make sure that
everyone's on the same page with the, as you mentioned, the liability and the legal issues so I'm hearing
that we will probably move this to staff and your group to meet and really hammer out those issues so
that we can be sure that we do have a project that is going to move forward and everyone's coordinated
in that effort and knows exactly what needs to be done and achieved and a joint powers agreemem
certainly would make sure that we've got a clear definition of everyone' s roles and the liabilities and
expectations. So certainly appreciate all of your efforts on this. I know you mentioned that Deana has
certainly been out on a lead on this but I think you've attended every meeting here at the council and we
certainly appreciate that. Knowing that there is a co-coordinator working on this. It's a big project.
Ed Kling: Well I have a feeling that seeing the work that she's done so far, I have a feeling I'm going to
have a little bit more involvement in the, she's more the brains. I'm more of the brawn. I might be able
to come I'm sure.
Mayor Jansen: This will take some brawn.
Ed Kling: I've been involved in different projects and I've worked on projects like this doing renovating.
I worked with a friend who's a remodeler and so I've been involved in a lot of, get your fingers in the dirt
and do the job. I've done work on my own and remodeled my home. Built a deck on the back so it's the
type of thing that, it doesn't scare me so I don't see this being a very, a project that we can't handle. I've
been involved with a friend of mine who's a painter for about 20 years so I've been involved in a lot of
these projects so I'm very confident we can do this.
Mayor Jansen: Very good. Excellent. Any questions or comments for Mr. Kling council. Okay. Thank
you again for coming this evening.
Ed Kling: Thank you.
Councilman Ayotte: Thanks a lot.
Mayor Jansen: Mr. Gerhardt, do you need a motion to have this directed back to you or just a consensus?
Todd Gerhardt: No.
Mayor Jansen: Everyone comfortable having staff meet with the residents at this point to hammer out the
specifics? Okay. Great. Thank you. If you'll coordinate that with Deana and her group for as soon as
you can possibly arrange to get that accomplished.
23
' City Council Meeting - November 13, 2001
Todd Gerhardt: And we'll get you a tentative budget too on this with their n~ that come in.
Mayor Jansen: Excellent, thank you. Thanks for being bere this evening.
CONSIDER AMENDMENT TQ CITY CQDE TQ PERMIT ONE DRIyEWAY ACCESS PER
LOT.
Public Present:
Name Address
Therese Berquist
7107 Frontier Trail
Sharmin Al-Jaff: Madam Mayor, memlx~ of the City Council. On October 22~d the City Council tabled
item on this action and directed staff to prepare language dealing with the location of the driveway on the
property as it relates to side property lines. The main change in this ordinance in summary is, the first 20
feet of the driveway will have to maintain a 5 foot setback unless the ~ owner enters into an
encroachment agreement. The rest of the ordinance rem the same as before. F. arli~r the~ were some
questions raised regarding the driveways, and at this point I would like to turn it over to Teresa to answer
those questions.
Mayor Jansen: Alright, thank you. Thank you for staying Teresa.
Teresa Burgess: The issues, and I tried to take notes. I apologize if I missed them but the issues that
were raised were specific to the beat:Mot in Sm Hills. Just to give the council a little bit of
baclq~und. In the spring of this year we had an incident on that beachlot where we needed access to a
lift station that was malftlnctioning. Our equipment is relatively large. We made. very deep ruts and so
following that, and since NSP had done it the previous year, we thought that it would be reasonable to
acquire easement and try to do something to avoid that continuous maintenance cost of repairing 3 foot
deep rots. Our proposal to that neighborhood was to go in and do what's called grass pave, and you
heard Therese Berquist mention that product. That's a very expensive product but we felt it was
reasonable if we could get the easement donated. We are still in negotiations with that neighborhood.
We have not made any progress so we have gone back to a standard easement acquisition. We had tried
to do it a little bit out of the norm. We are going to a standard easement acq~ition. We have had a
surveyor draft up the easement that we would like to acquire. We will make an offer. However, we're
still open to the idea of grass pave if we can work with the neighborhood and I know that Councilmember
Boyle had called earlier today. He' s been getting some information from the neighborhood as well, so if
the council members have more interest in that, I'd certainly be happy to share it with you, but we are
just trying to acquire an easement for aox, ess to a lLf-t station so that we don't have this continuous
maintenance cost of repairing the rots in the beachlot itself. As for the issues that were raised on the
actual amendn~nts, this amendn~nt was not intended to be directed towards the beachlot. The separate
driveways serving utility facilities, the intent of that section is to eliminate or reduce any hardships to the
property owners. We do not want to end up with a situation where a pr~ owner cannot have an
addition, cannot have a driveway because we already have a utility easement access, or that we have to
use their driveway and so we're driving up close to their home when they prefer us to be further away on
a large lot. It's really intended for the property owners. We acquire those easements. We can't be in an
area without that easement, and so we need to have the flexibility if the driveway doesn't work, we need
to be able to move to where we can get into a utility access without telling the property owner you have
Roundhouse Renovation Planning Document
PREPARED BY: Deanna Bunkelman
DATE CREATED: November 2001
PROJECT SCOPE: Renovate the Roundhouse, located at the intersection of
Minnewashta Parkway and Kings Road overlooking Lake Minnewashta, into a usable
building.
COMMUNITY IMPACT:
· Upgrade a stan~ unique landmark well known throu~om the community
making it presentable in appearance and usable beyond its current state.
· Maintain the building that originally gave the Roundhouse Park its name.
· Display the historical information about the building for educational purposes
and continued pride in our heritage.
· Create a usable building which would be utilized as a warming house and/or
gathering spot for family (reunions, picnics, ete) and community events. The
building may include a restroom, if funding is sufficient.
· Give long-term reeo~ifion by creating a memorial for those who donated their
time, money, and/or material to the project creating lasting community ownership
and pride in our results.
· Foster community involvement and cooperation by creating the opportunity for
individuals to be involved and contribute to this project.
· Allow the Scouting troops in the area to fulfill their community service needs
by getting involved by doing either a ftmdraiser or contributing their time.
· Eliminate the occasional current complaints the City is receiving about the
appearance of the structure to allow them to concentrate on other matters
benefiting our community.
· Improve the lighting around the stmcmm and park to create a safer
neighborhood environment.
· Create a handicap accessible building and restroom.
PROPOSED COMPLETION DATE:
· Exterior - Spring 2002 (weather permitting, this would also include the
removal of the lead/asbestos containing material both inside and outside of the
building).
· Interior - Spring 2003 (fully functional, inctading restroom, if funding
available).
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS TO COMPLETE PROJECT:
· Buy-in and support from the City Council; continued support from the Park and
Recreation Commission.
· Funding from the City of $25,000 (initial proposed funding has decr~
considerably; current amount stands at $40,000; $15,000 of which has beg. n spent
on the building plans and Specs/Detail book produced created by Locus
Architecture)
· Specs developed by Locus Architecture are found to be sound and usable.
· Specs for the lead/asbestos testing are found to be reliable and usable.
· Ability to raise donations to help fund a complete renovation beyond
appearance (which at this point, without our bids being in, we feel is not a
concern).
· Community and neighborhood continued support and involvement (we're
continually finding many people interested in helping with the project even prior
to our mass distribution of flyers announcing it).
· Consulting with other accomplished project volunteers for ideas and planning.
OUT OF SCOPE: None identified at this time.
RISK FACTORS:
· Unable to raise sufficient funds to completely renovate the structure (perceived
risk is low).
· City revokes ~d/or decreases current funding.
· Neighborhood and/or community lose interest in the project (perceived risk is
low).
ASSUMPTIONS:
· Neighborhood task/orce is able to move forward with quarterly updates to the
City on progress.
· Taskforce is fully accountable and empowered to make decisions on the
structure and the firms we'll utili?e to help renovate it.
· Taskforce is able to manage the funding and contributions made to the project.
· City contact will continue to be Todd Hoffman.
· City will reduce costs or contribute to the project wherever possible and
feasible (permits, inspections, etc).
· City will not reconsider the destruction of the Roundhouse unless no progress is
made by Fall 2002.
· Current electrical wiring can be utilize~ but may need to be moved.
· We're able to link our website to the City's site.
· Ongoing maintenance of the stmcture will be done by the City in the same
manner as other park buildings throughout the City.
· Eliminate the need to bring in the trailer used for a warming house during the
winter months.
· All donations for this project are tax deductible.
OPEN
ISSUES/QUESTIONS:
· Should the basement of the structta-~ be filled in? This will impact the decision
on the flooring, heating and plumbing for the ~ which could impact cost
and time of completion.
· Can the current plumbing leading up to the structure be u61iTed or does it need
to be redone? Has the plumbing been 'capped'?
· What are the handicap accessible standards/guidelines for this type of building?
· Should the building be locked once completely renovated? What should the
hours of the building be? Should it always have a caretaker when unlocked?
What are the operating procedures/guidelines for other park buildings in our
community?
· Is the structure considered an historical building and if so, would funding be
available from the State?
· What is the complete history of the stm~?
· Will the exterior of the building be painted or stained? This will depend on the
estimates we receive back from the certified lead abatement firms.
· Should a security system be installed or at least 'appear' to be installed to help
protect the building from vandals?
PROJECT TEAM MEMBERS:
Coordinators - Deanna Bunkelman, Ed Kling, and Jan Carlson
Accountant/Bookkeeper - Dan Wattenhofer, Lori Kling
Excavator (if needed) - Lowell Carlson
Rendering- Nate Josephs
Webmaster - Deanna Bunkelman, Steve Maas
Fundraiser Committee Chair - TBD
Histozy Committee Chair - TBD
Interior Committee Chair (plumbing, electrical, heating, etc) - TBD
Exterior Committee Chair (roofing, windows, landscaping, etc) - TBD
CONTACT LIST: (Due to personal information noted below (ernails/phone numbers),
the following shouM not be republished in a public manner unless the emails/phone
numbers of individuals are removed).
Reconstruction/Renovationfirm- firm that comes in and 'deconstructs' for free and then
splits the profit of items that are recoverable and sold.
Boy Scout Troops - for fundraising events or community service. Will be contacting
local troops: Pack 301 (Chanhassen), 330 (Chanhassen), 589 (Chaska), 327 (Jordan), 337
(Waconia), 429 (Excelsior), 428 (Excelsior), 409 (Excelsior), 424 (Excelsior), 330
(Chanhassen), 589 (Victoria/Jonathan), 409 (Excelsior), 337 (ChanhasserffChaska). Main
contact - Julie Terpstra- Assistant District Commissioner for Lake Minnetonka District.
South Hennepin Technical College (carpentry) - Bill Joos, 952-944-2222, M- Th after
2:00 PM
University of Minnesota- Environmental Health & Safety, Mike Buckner, 612-626-6002
Sustainable Resource Center- volunteer organization that performs a variety of lead
paint removal related activities. Dan (out of office until November 12), 612-8704255
Minnesota Department of Health- Bruce Lange, 651-215-0904 (lead/asbestos contact)
Asbestos/LeadAbatement Firms - (only listed those that already contacted) Kellington
Environmental, Scott, 763-416-3375 or Chris, 612-282-7831; Veit Environmental, A1
Pikarski, apikarski~veitcompanies.com, fax 763428-3574
Andersen Windows- Libby Johnston, Public Relations Director, oversees
contributions/donations made to community projects, 651-264-2000,
libby.Johnston~tndersencorp.com
This Old House/HomeTime - interest in project, although will not hold up
schedule/progress'waiting for response. (http://www.hometime.com/)
Minnesota Historical Society- Preservation of structure from historical perspective
Chaska Courthouse - Potentially additional history of property/structure.
Lyman Lumber- Sales manager, Matt Lennartson, 9524704803 (or Tim Leister)
Marvin Windows - Greta Carlson, 952474-7140, gretacarl9~aol.com
A-to-Z Rental, Eden Prairie - Jim and Jean Way
Paint Supplies- at cost, Saturn Painting
Plumbing Supplies- at cost, Gary Carlson
Excavation - Lowell Carlson
BFI-disposal of unwanted material, Rich Hirstein, 952470-6393
Dm,e Headla- limited history of Roundhouse from 1950's on, 952474-7269
Neighborhood/Community Contacts- Ann Osborne, Red Cedar Point (952-474-4463);
Emily Blovdek (952-445-0168) or merytamun@~hotmail.com; JoAnn Hallgren
joannh~visi.com; Linda Scott Linda Scott~entegris.com
BUDGET:
Expenses - A more detailed budget will be submitted once additional information is
provided. The building plans were submitted to both Home Depot and the Victoria
Lumberyard the week of November 4th and are expected back on Tuesday, November 13.
This will give us an itemized list of all of the building materials needed for the project.
We're still getting bids from the Lead/Asbestos Abatement firms. Veit Environmental,
Inc. will be assessing the structure and providing an estimate the week of November 11.
Additional bids will be done with at least two other firms. The esti_'mates will be broken
down by what 'by law' needs to be done by an abatement firm vs volunteers and the
abatement firm completing all of the lead/asbestos removal.
Funding - $40,000 from the City, $15,000 of which has already been spent on the initial
plans and specs for renovation.
Donations - Rendering drawing, donated by Nate Josephs ($200 value)
HIGH LEVEL WORK PLAN: (The following are estimated dates to complete items
and are contingent on firms and resources used to complete each one)..
November 2001 - Distribution of flyers to Minnewashta Elementary and surrounding
neighborhood. Estimates provided by Home Depot, Victoria Lumberyard, and Veit
Environmental. Account set-up at bank for tax-deductible contributions. PO Box number
setup at Post Office for receipt of contributions. Final decision from City Council on
whether to proceed with project. Proposed budget 75% complete from expense side.
December 2001 - Website (xvwxv.roundhousepark.com) launched. Contact local
newspapers for highlight story about the renovation (Villager (Melissa Cfilman), Sun
Sailor, Excelsior Times, etc). Start forming committees- fundraiser, history, interior and
exterior.
January 2002 - Lead/asbestos removal done (weather permitting) at least from h~te~ior of
building. Finalize committees and assign activities with completion dates. Make
decision on basement (fill or no-fill), heating, plumbing and electrical.
February 2002 - Give progress update to the City Council. Fix or remove first floor
boards depending on decision made on basement. Work on basement, either filling or
renovating.
March 2002 - Start removal of second floor and other material not needed from interior
(assuming asbestos/lead paint has been removed from inside).
April 2002 - Continue work on removal of unneeded material from interior. Complete
asbestos/lead paint removal (from exterior of building). Excavate for plumbing leading
up to building.
May 2002 - Give progress update to the City Council. Start work on interior walls -
stripping, staining, painting, etc. Paint or stain exterior of building.
June 2002 - Continue effort on interior walls. Work on plumbing within building.
duly 2002 - Build bathroom and finish up plumbing. Work on electrical both within and
outside building.
August 2002 - Give progress update to the City Council. Start work on windows, door
and roof.
September 2002 - Continue windows and roofing. Finalize electrical.
October 2002 - Continue working on interior- light fixtures, plumbing fixtures, etc
November 2002 - Give progress update to the City Council. Leave open contingent on
any delays of items above.
December 2002- Leave open contingent on any delays of items above.
January 2003 - Leave open contingent on any delays of items above.
February 2003 - Give progress update to the City Council. Install fan and heating.
March 2003- Decorate interior, including many historical pictures of the building.
April 2003 - Install proper outside lighting and security system (if sufficient funding).
May 2003 - Give progress update to the City Council. Pour cement steps, walkway, and
ramp. Landscape around building including recognition of contributors.
Summer 2003- Grand opening celebration.
Winter 2003 - First use of Roundhouse as a warming house.
i)l l oundhouse Renovation
A neighborhood taskforce has been put together to restore the Roundhouse
on the shores of Lake Minnewashta and we need your help!!!! We have
limited funds from the city so we're trying to aecomp~h this with
donations. Please contact us ff you are able to contribute any of the
following:
· History of the Roundhouse - we do know it was reconstructed at it's
current location in the late 1940's, but would like to get more
information about its' history as a water tower along the railroads.
· Time - any time that you could donate to this project, whether it be
labor, delivering flyers, or making phone calls.
· Money - tax deductible contributions can be made to the 'City of
Chanhassen - Roundhouse Renovation' and sent directly to the City
of Chanhassen, P.O. Box 147, Chanhassen, MN 55317.
· Materials - connections to obtain them inexpensively or as a
donation- we'll need items such as windows, stain, indoor/outdoor
lighting, a door, fan, lumber, plumbing fixtures (yes, we do plan to
have an indoor restroom), ~ shakes, cement, etc.
For those that contribute a 'yet to be determined' amount of 6me, money, or
materials, we do plan to have an 'onsite' reco~tion (some ideas we have
are plaques, pictures, or tiles in the walkway).
Current view of the Roundhouse
Future view of the Roundhouse
Contacts: Deanna Bunkelman (952-401-8083) or via email bunk4~tt.net
Ed Kgm8 (952-380-1550) or via email edwardkling~01.com
Watch for our upcoming website,,,,www, roundhou~epark, com for more details
City Council Meeting- November 26, 2001
Resolution g2001-84: Councilman Boyle moved, Councilman Peterson seconded to adopt the
resolution for the final assessment roll dated November 19, 2001 for the Dogwood Sanitary Sewer
Improvement Project Number 00-01-1 be adopted at a term of 8 years and an interest rate of
6.5%. All voted in favor, except Councilman Ayotte who opposed, and the motion carried with a
vote of 3 to 1.
Mayor Jansen: Moving on, we have deleted agenda item number 4. The public hearing for the Kings
Road street and utility improvements so we will move on.
UPDATE ON ROUNDHOUSE RENOVATION PROJECT.
Todd Hoffman: Mayor and City Council members. Per the direction of the City Manager I'm working
on, currently working on the establishment of a joint powers agreement between the Roundhouse
Renovation Committee and the City. Tom Scott from the attorney's office and Deanna Bunkelman
representing the committee and I will meet this Friday.
Councilman Ayotte: Will or will not?
Todd Hoffman: Will, meet this Friday to discuss those particulars about who will be responsible for
what in that project and then we'll bring that back to the council for your approval.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, great. At this point, you're still in the process of really accomplishing what we
had talked about in the last meeting so we appreciate the update. And what, anticipate hearing back from
you then at the next meeting in December or?
Todd Gerhardt: First meeting in December and included in that will be some budget estimates. How
money will be spent and who's going to be in charge of what as the project moves ahead.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Any.questions for staff at this point? Okay. Appreciate it. Thank you. We'll get
more information at the next meeting.
UPDATE ON RENTAL PROPERTY LICENSING TASK PLAN.
Public Present:
Name Address
Cec Meistel
174 Lakeview Road East
Beth Hoiseth: Good evening Mayor and council members. Actually I'm here to give you an update on
the conduct on premise status. The research I've been doing. I've reviewed ordinances and spoken with
city representatives from 8 communities, and the cities...they're in various stages... For instance 3 of the
communities are very new with the program They've just adopted the ordinance this year, and what I
found by reviewing these ordinances are, they're very similar. In fact most of the communities have
modeled their ordinance after Minneapolis in the ones that I've talked to. And the Minneapolis
ordinance pretty much states that a licensee or the property owner is legally responsible for criminal
behavior, nuisance issues on rental property. And if there have been more than 3 police responses within
a year's time, that license could be revoked or suspended. And as I stated in my report, there are some
distinctions from the numerous cities. One of the communities doesn't license their rental properties but