1c Plans & Bids Lift Station 1C1TYOF
CHANIIA
A/iaklmUoa
~ 95~Z27.1100
Fax: 952.227.1110
Ban# Impm~m
P'I~m: ~.1180
Eqilml
Phom~ 952.22Ll160
Fs~ 952227.1170
Rm= ~..22Ll140
Fmc 952.227.1110
PI~I
Ilatm~ Rgam'~e
Rlooe: 952.227.1130
F,m:: ¢L~7.1110
Paldie WeCm
1501 Pad Rind
Rme: ~:~ ~.131X)
F~ 952_,.227.1310
MEMORAHDU~
TO:
]:~OM:
DATE:
SUB~:
Teresa Burguss, th:d:~llc Wc~ks D/rect~;~2ity Eng~ue~
J~nu,~'~ 21, 2003
Approve Plato and Specificaficm fur ~ Stafian 1 T .nEwo~; Authadze
Adve~isemmt for Bids - Project No. 01-11
REO~ ACTION
]BACKGROUND
On September 24, 2001, the C//y Coundl auflxaized the ~cm of a fe~ibility stmiy
to look a~ i ,-~ovemeats to LLff ~m~ 1, 2 azu:l 10.
~mpmw, meats to Lift Stafio~ I and 10.
Lift: Stafio~ 1. O~ of thc cas~t com:litioas was fo~ the City to i~tall a lm'ick pav~
driveway fo~ access to thc lift statio~
During t~ fcasibifi~ sm~ ph~e of thi~ l:a'oject, it was demrmiocd t. hat ~ Statio~ I had
tmable p~iz~o thc ahaz~~ withIA_ff Smfio~ 10. To alleviamthi~
lm~lcm, tl~ feasibiU~ study rec,~nm~_~ th~ a new 10-iz~,h forccmain be iz~tallcd
from I.,i_ff Stafio~ 1 to l~mficr Trail. Thi~ will eaablc Lift: Stations 1 ~ 10 m each kave
~ pin.ns nnd ~cations h,nv~ ~ o',,,,t,le, tcd and ~ on ~ in thc :Ens;inccring
]::~q3anmcnt. ~ project i~cludcs thc foUowin~
· Anew lO-inchfo~:~a]~ntoseparntc~flowson:lfftstaficmn 1 nnd 10.
· A brick pav~ access driveway to thc ~
The current ccmstmction cost estlrmu-, for the project is $115,000. This is heady 9% le~
than the fes~'hility estimate of $131,0(10. This project is proposed to b~ fizumc~l fzom
the City's Utility Num:L
RF, C~~ATION
c: Mark StaIz, Boneatroo
Phil Grave. l, Bonestroo
Kelley Jane~, Utility
Tk. CR~ mi Cknnk#aan · A ipzm~ng c0nmmlty vdlh clean iakas, quallly scheels, a o'mnn~ doguk~n, ~ Ixmkmssen, akxlno hals, axl beautiful ladn. A flm~ plato In ~ ~ ~ ~
MayorJ~ Iathn"~anyon~c,l~? Seeing no one, I will close the public hear~ a~ bring this
back ~o council. Any commenm or a minion pleaso.
Councilman Boyle: I'd r~l~_, a motion for ~.
Councilman Boyle moved, Conncilman Peierson second~! to approve the off-sale 3~ beer
license request from Kwik Trip, In~ for their n~w store at 2101 West ?8' Street__~ Ail voted
in favor and the molion carried unanimously with a vot~ of ~ to 0.
pI. IBLIC HKARING: APPROVE FKASIB~ $TIJDY AND ORDRR PR~ FOR
Lllrr S~I'ATION No. 10 SYSTEM UTILITY IMPRO~ PRO,IF. CT 01-11.
Public Pre~ent:
Name ~d_ _dress
Jamt & Jorry Pauls~
TermaBursms: ThankyouM, dnmMaym',s~Idohavoahazutoutf~ttmcouneil Thisiaju~
acopyofth~emailthatwasm:eiv~ltoday. MadamMa~aad~~. TheC~of
inflow and in'little'on pr~le~:ta which w~ havo ~ thoao ~ back and at~ currently doin8
i~cnts to corn~ thoec problen~. Wc'rc doing no dig ~pai:r~ to several scctione at'linc
stations I and 2, as v,~ll as wilh lifl,,iaiionm~mhez 10. Mainly li~ stafim~ 1 and2 can'tpn~p
,~i~,t the force of lift shtilon 10. ~ it's r,mnlnE tho~ two st~dlom sW,_ _~_le, and so they put
CAty Council M~n~ - July 8, 2002
Mayor Jansen: Okay, th.ak you. Council, any questions fur sta:ffat mi,, time?
Col~_~lmnn Ayott~: I hav~ a couple. First off~ Fm ~ comerntnt becauso I fiollow~! nlmt~tt
evea'y poim you ~,'~. nad so I'm either ~ bettnr or you're l~n8 bett~r at explainia8 ~tings
some of tl~ cemcerns we have ham? Would PM hav~ ckmo any good do you think?
T~sa~: Ithi.kthntw~'montopofiL Wo'v~hadatd~-visingprogramforson~tim~.
We're now working to g~t that to be a mo~ ~ ptogtmn. To bo mm'~ sy~emsfic in how
Co~n~l~n Ayot~: Titanic yolL
Mayorlan~a: Anyotl~quo~c~lbr~'atthi~fime? 01~.
Counc~mn Boyle: Whnr~'s lift stnfim number 2
TermaBurgess: Idon'thtv~mylittlemn~.. S~nnmher2isri~ohthem. Andllpht2~whic. h
isjustoffthonorthsidoofLotusl~ke. H~slnticnmrmher2isjustoffFrc~tti~Trafl. tm
horn. Kolley'smotinnin~tmoflt,ttFmwrmmg. Sothom'slitislatlon 10. You can see this is the
~dstin~mnin. It will probably h~ if l just look in tho one that I'm smmfl~ msxt to. I-ln'~'slffi
that same main tl~tt's now a 6 indt fiaxammin and it shares Rmt wlth lift station number 10.
lOin~ Tl~10incltwouldcanyliftstafianrmml~ur 10. ltw~tldgopandl~ltothis, l.iPc~d.ian
I will _r~in in tho ~istin~ 6 irm. h, and up hg~ a~ Fmuilgx thoro i~ a grmri~ ~jn~n ~ ~ ~
will flow down m lffi aasfion 2 and I~t pic. ked up in lffi ~ 2. H{~ slulim 2 tl~m trim m pmk.
I-l~m's that pamll~ 10 iuclh a~thm~ntpic&s up. You c~u s~that~'s abroak~
m:luiri~ less head to push. ttgo~sthr~th~ 10inc. E Andtl~nasv~8~upimo~h~t-tah'm2
yen soo tl~t v~'~ Oisconn~ F_ffi st,afitm 2 frc~n tho ~ n~d it will go into a pmpos~
f, arca:main, 8 in~ foco'~,,i- Como down to an cristin~ gtavi~ ~-~r ,-,a then slopc from tho
Councilman Boyle: Thank you.
Cool~lnmn~ Ta~,~lnn.u. asyonhsv~tt'mt~~. C~youjust~mrwhe~all
the 8~-~nd dismptio~willbe7 Whe~ you'll bo mquimd to di~. F, muahzii~ 1 upthehfll?
7
· city ~ ~.~- July 8, 2002
ofthene~bol~nood. Th~e~bli.hedtr~s. Wo haw homes that a~ doso to iL We don't want
Councih:tmn Lnba~ So thes~ l~n~nE down to [i~ ~:a~:m 2, nt 2 t~ro'll be nn d~n~on?
Mn/k? Mal~ittohe~. And keep in mind, v~hav~notdan~thep~umandspecifimtionsy~
can pmpar~ those pluns. I know thn~'s son~ fix~xafim in tl~ n~igMx~hood, why can't you roll
DebbioLloyd: D~bi=Lloyd, 7302~Drivo. Iliv~intl~g~t~xlaff~t~lbyth~,I
guc~ I live in li/t m~m 1. Near lit,,l~on 1 in Sullrise l-lills andthl~'s an easemml in the
back oi'myproportythnt w~tld bewh~ ~ 10 inch pit~ would bo laid. Andljustha~a
couple cotmneats, and that is, I know that this was a court~ t~ advise us flutt this was going t~
happen, but not ~ along that eas~mn~ was ~ For _,~mn. le Joel Jenid~ who liv~
plca~c ~. No aascssmcm am ~ fnr ~,, project, so I trunk fi:~r a lot ofpeoplc ~ccch4ng
~mncnm am propo~t at thi~ time. Iw~ttoknowwhi~iti~. Ifthe lO inch pipe taid in my
rne and my mei~ohhors, direct neighbo~ ~ fftl~'s an aaa~ssmgnI in t[~ firtm'~ ff'tl~ would bo
Mayor Jansen: O]my. Tezcsa, if you could go ahead aad addmss flmt ~
Toresa Burscss: Okay, I was tak~g notes. War~ those tho only two questions?
D~bbi~ Lloyd: Nov I dmink I have sou~ mo~ but I'm not rualby sure.
T~'~saBurlg~: Okay, I'll un.~t th~e two while you think about lt I did speak with Mr.
leakins .,-4 the reason he was not notilled is oorr~t, ~ was not with~ 500 fx~t cfftl~ li~ ~
City Council l~_n,~n_.= - .luly 8, 2002
wtmn w~ _mm,,,lly hav~ plans to say olmy now this is ~ it goos ~m y0m. ~, ant! aclually
lay out a plan f~r her to see where exactly it's going to go m~ to dmc~oe what's the im?,-i m
s~amlly sit down with them. W~mmallydoitinanop~nhotmes~in~ We sand out notic~ and
=~ouragg to come in and aak quastiona. WoaakthemWtak~alookallhoplsns. lstlmr~
mxyt~in~ t~t w~ ~ I~ ..wan: ~tl~t w~ mime:l? I-lay= ~ou in~all~l a aprinkl~ sysU~n or
just to l~t peoplo know that WO'l~ goin~ ~ ~ a ~m ~ wo'r~ on tho cmx~hud sta~.
Once we hav~ pla~ wo will start W talk wifl~ people thai am directly ad~scant, not that 500 fi~t
broad bam~ Wo'll be lalking with tho peopl~ the proimn'y own~s m ~har ~ of that pipelin~
the~ ~ no ~. Now w~ can't assess, a~ loially thai does not bind us but I &m't
f~ttu~.
Mayor J'ansea: So sposflcallythere ar~ no a.ssmsmm~ on yourrectmu,~a~on whichis tho
priafifies 1 and 3, and you've le~ yo~meAfolmn ~ th~ pot~ ~m 2 ~ 4?
Tm~saB~: C, ormct. Ifw~wsnt~tndoasaesm~onlm'ut3,/fthecouncil~~
this :n,~_ in~ w~ haw to go back and hold a publi~ hearing wire offioial legal noli~. This publi~
Mayor Jansan: Okay. Any oth~?
Debbie Lloyd: Well Fm still ~ ccmfuaed abcut tho study ~ ~ 1 ~ 3 ~
iml'?lemenI~ be.,f,.u~; 2.
Bonestmo rerAse ~ ~. The nmomm,',n,t,,tlnn is ct, ming fr~n staffto do prim-it-y number 3
be~f:~ priority ~ 2. It is ~ot _coming fixun Bc~x~a'oo.
9
Debbie Lloyd: Oimy, thank you.
10
lmppam We hnd gone ahead and givm all these ~ pric~ to p~r~5 Itwasn'tafm~gd
htma issue Imcause w~ had the pla~ Wo mid c~y, we'mwc~kin8 withth~ c/~y. We were aslr~l
w~ s~rimt ou~ with Tm-~sa raying why don't y~u takg a look at th~ li:ff s~firm on T.nke ~
control. Wcwc~tnt~_a t~l Iook~ at that. Durins~timcth~fliatth~wmldgoahcad
tohav~toprmantS0pe~of~ Wchadalzau~wldallofoarlol~. Wo no lca:~r:r had the
oflookin~ at a very expemiv~ sy~__em, looking ~ a v~ry rain, rrm! systgxm Wo'm willi%o ami
undarstand thai a charcml ~ ~ can be vury dr~ti~ We ~ tl~ it doesn't
ickn tint flm~ odors ar~ causing a nuisanco.
Coun_~l-mn Ayotte: Say tbnI again, I didn't beer you.
that, ~t this limo you implm~u~t th~ odor control and th~ ~. F~~ ~ ~~
~l]y ~ ~ ~ mi,. T~ ~~i. ~ ~ ~ ~~ w~ ~
11
Potc~l Is~l: Yep.
nnd sho do~ have a good poin~ in tl~ Mr. Svvauson did not lh~ ~y adjac~t to the li~
~ly expensive. Tot]tabuildin8 over this liRsf-f;tm w~ would requi~puxchaninsthe
additional lot thnt is directly ~ to th~ li~ statlcm ~ w~ ~a't a~kr li~ stalkm 10 ou~ of
~t'sasign~canti~ Andthntdoesnoti~udoaay~.~fora~ That'sjus~lmxl
v~re done under tgu'r~ily legal t,~,~n~ lX~CeSS. We would hav~ r~quested tham ii'the lgul's ~d
down on li~ ai~on 24. ThetypoofodorccaIrolv~hav~c~1i~staIkm24. Firstct'alli~y~u'v~
n,~l it does v~-y little to ccah-ol od~ so I wanted them to unggrslax~ You can put a lot ofuumey
only thing tha~ is r~ally available to us fix cd~r ~lnow is carbon filtm~ and tha~ is why li~'s
the only thi~_.o that's proposed ~ ~ ~. Finally I'd liI~ to poi~ out to the coun~ tha~ v~
have 29 lift stafio~ in the city o£ Chanhassun. Wo ar~ in tho procms of comtru~ rnrml~r 30.
We have a couple mor~ thnt will be _ _exi~ming on in ~r~u~ ~em~. and so wilh 30 li~
it, noproblem. We'lljusttakocar~cffthat. Woneodtobeabl~ojustiTywhythislitaiufic~and
12
City Council Meeting - July 8, 2002
too and see if our view on this odor control was wrong, and I specifically said to them, my view
on odor control on a lift station is that it's an aesthetic issue. Their opinion.
Councilman Ayotte: Say that last part again Teresa.
Teresa Burgess: It's an aesthetic issue. And therefore since it's not a health issue, it's an
aesthetic issue, it is appropriate for me to ask people to pay for part of the cost. And as such, in
asking them to pay for it, if they feel that an assessment is not appropriate for odor control, then it
doesn't smell that bad. And his statement back to me was, you're probably right. Ifk's not
worth putting some of the money towards, it's not smelling that bad. Now in this case it seemed
appropriate. We ~vere trying to work with the property owners. I'm sorry, I can hear somebody
whispering. I didn't want to interrupt. We were trying to work with the property owners. The
reason for doing this project and proposing to do it all at once was first of all we were not aware
of the problems at lift stations 1 and 2 at the time that we did this study. The study pointed it out
to us. That did change our priorities. The Igel's have received several copies of the draft so as
come to the city we have shared them. We have contacted them repeatedly. We have email back
and forth. We did sit down with them and discuss specifically odor control and what it can do.
What it can't do. And up until we had the valve break at lift station 2, our intention was to do,
I'm sorry lift station 1. Our intention was to do the improvements to lift station 10 with screening
and doing the generator and working with them on, is odor control something we want to pursue.
Should we talk about it as an assessment project to all of the properties? And then we had the
valve break at lift station number 1. That changed our priorities and we did contact them when
our priorities changed and we told them what was going on. It's unfortunate, but it's a fact of the
matter that the utility budget does not have the money to do all 4 priorities this year. We have to
pick and choose and staffhas decided that our recommendation to council is priority 1 and 3 as
the 1hOSt appropriate for the year 2002. And it's unfortunate we don't have an unlimited budget,
but we do.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. And just so I'm clear, the aesthetic issue dealing with the fence, and I
heard Ms. Igel say that they're fine with the fence. Under option number 1 it's an estimated cost,
correct? Is this the station we're talking about?
Teresa Burgess: Lift station 10, option number 1.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. With fence and without fence.
Teresa Burgess: We would be required by our planning, our zoning requirements to screen the
permanent generator and so the fence that's included is to screen the permanent generator. The
boxes that are down there, the control boxes are painted green to fade into the greenery.
Unfortunately they do stick out in the snow, but they have been there for quite some time. By
zoning code and by our planning codes we're required to fence, and we do try to meet our own
codes and that is why fencing is included. It was put in here as with and without just to point out
that there is some cost involved in that.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. So it will be screened with the fence so that's already been addressed.
Teresa Burgess: Only the generator will be screened. The intention was to screen the generator.
Now we could certainly, if the council's directs, add on screening for the control boxes. That is
not something we generally do, and so we would need to have direction if that's what you would
like to see us do.
13
City Council Meeting - July 8, 2002
Mayor Jansen: Okay. In comparison to screening the generator I don't have a clue as to the size
comparison.
Teresa Burgess: The generator, we would be screening just like you would see around the large
sized air conditioning units. We ;vould be putting in some form of fencing ;vith some
architectural interest. We would work with our planning department to make sure it meets all of
their requirements. They have concerns about the viewscape from the lake as well as from the
neighborhood. They're much more concerned actually about the viewscape from the lake with
that being probably the area that will get the most traffic and visibility of this area.
Mayor Jansen: But if we added screening of the control boxes, what would we be adding
potentially? Half again? Is it the same cost as screening the generator as far as the size and
amount?
Teresa Burgess: Part of the problem is ~ve need to have access to those, and so we would have to
look at what's involved in getting that screened. We couldn't answer that tonight. We'd have to
relook at it. Most of the screening issues are probably, if we were to screen the box probably
what we're going to do is plant some trees, which are already around it. There's several trees
around it. We cannot screen the actual wet well itself, except to put fence around it. We can do a
lot of things with a fence but the house that's proposed next door to this lot, or to this parcel is a
two story home. There's not going to be much we can do. You're talking about some pretty high
fence to be able to screen from that. And I have talked with that person. He's called me
periodically for updates and I know that he's called the Igel's also several times for updates.
Where are we in the process? What's going on? And he actually lives on Highway 101 and so
I've had a lot of contact with him on Highway 101 as well.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Otherwise the only other aesthetic part of the project that moved into 4 that
we wouldn't be doing right away is recommended to change the light pole, and I take that as a
minor compared to if we in fact can screen the rest of the project.
Teresa Burgess: And we can certainly take that minor piece and move it up.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Teresa Burgess: You do it as part of the major project and make it look nice.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, if it isn't a big deal. And then I noted within your notes that any of the
odor issues can in fact be addressed if it does become a situation as far as being able to add the
odor control after the project is completed, if there does seem to be a great deal of issue around
that.
Teresa Burgess: Right. That is something that ~ve would offer to any neighborhood that
surrounds a lift station. If they feel that it's appropriate to do odor control, ~ve would go through
the process of a petitioned project, just like we do any other public improvement project, and my
recommendation to council would be that it at least a portion assessed and we would evaluate
each lift station as it would come to us. In fact I had a discussion ~vith the property owner near
lift station number 1 asking why is lift station 10 being proposed for odor control and we're not?
Well, because they asked for it. If you ~vant it, hey. Come in and ask for it and I'll be happy to
work with you and we'll do a cost estimate and we'll tell you what it's going to cost and decide.
And then you can tell me if this lift station still smells, or if it's not that bad. And with this many
lift stations, it's the only way I can see doing it and being fair to everyone in the city. Certainly
14
City Council Meeting - July 8, 2002
we can talk about them as they come in about what's appropriate for city share, and if we get a lot
of these we may have to talk about that. But at this point in time, if we've never had somebody
ask for it, and talking with the consultants that do this type of work, we couldn't find any place
that did it consistently. Put in odor control. You do it here and there where you have to but
nobody that does it across the board.
Mayor Jansen: So of the 29 current lift stations, we don't get a lot of nuisance complaints around
the odor, or have we gotten any?
Teresa Burgess: We get an occasional once in a while. Not anywhere near where we get for
instance smelly ponds. We get an occasional complaint about a lift station. We try_ to take care
of them in a timely manner, as quickly as possible and do what we can with them. Some of them
there's not anything we can do. But we don't get a lot of complaints about our lift stations.
Mayor Jansen: Alright, thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to address the council on
this issue?
Greg Lindsley: Sure I would. Greg Lindsley. Mayor and council. I'm the gentleman Teresa
was talking about. I live on 101 plus I also own, now own the Lot 8 of Big Woods, which is one
of the easements for the lift station. My intent here is to really obviously would be to support the
Igel's since I bought this property with the intent of some improvements being made, and I can
understand ~vhat...and some of those things. And as we talked in some of these meetings we
were at, there's no guarantees on odors. Charcoal can help. I got the impression maybe the
larger wet well might help with some additional cleaning. So as I sit here and take notes on
what's going on, I would like to make a few points. We bought this property based on many
things. A lot of positives. It's on Lotus Lake. Very nice. It's wooded. But one of them was
some improvements by the city to this lift station, and until tonight I wasn't sure exactly what was
going on. We had some conversation and I wasn't a part of this letter but, I'd like to at least
recommend that you seriously consider the control boxes be fenced in, or screened or ~vhatever
the tem~ is that we're using tonight. And the other question I'd have is, if it's put off for future,
when might that be? Would the larger question might be... 10 foot wet well, would that maybe
possibly help odors? You know we've already discussed that charcoal might help the odors.
When might that happen? Next year? 10 years? Or is that just something that can't be
answered? I'm not sure how the city works...
Mayor Jansen: The comment from staff was, as part of our CIP projects Teresa would be looking
at the next 1 to 3 years, correct?
Teresa Burgess: We'd be looking for the next 1 to 3 on lift station 2. We probably would look at
how quickly this neighborhood develops and work with the neighborhood, but I would see it
being at least 3 years out, just for budgetary purposes. We try to do projects as soon as possible
but we have to look at our budget and see when do we have money. We'd like to get it done
before we have the big bill for the water treatment.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. So take that as an estimate and not a promise.
Greg Lindsley: Right. So... but in the meantime we also have the issue of screening and you're
considering screening the boxes.
Mayor Jansen: That will be part of our conversation tonight, yes.
15
City Council Meeting - July 8, 2002
Greg Lindsley: Thank you.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you. Anyone else?
Kari Romportl: I'm Kari Romportl and I live at 7417 Frontier Trail and I developed the property
on Big Woods on Lotus Lake with Dave and Rachel and we originally did it with the intent we
were going to be living there and we did live there before that and have had the opportunity to
smell lift station 10 numerous times and our house was quite a bit a ways from the lake and I
know the people that bought our lot are going to be quite a bit closer. But also my big concern is
all 3 of these lift stations have very close access to Lotus Lake, and I'm sure there's quite a few
homeowners on Lotus Lake that get kind of concerned ~vhen sewage can overflow into a lake and
that'd be my recommendation is, I live, currently live very close to lift station number 2. My next
door neighbor is here and she lives right next door to lift station 2 and wasn't aware that she
could complain about the smell. So that's my recommendation is to, that we can do whatever we
can, especially to protect the lake from, I know there was discussions throughout this whole
development about expanding the wet well at number 10. That there was issues when the power
would go that it would overflow into Lotus Lake so that would be my recommendation is we can
do whatever we can to protect this nice city and the lake that is in it, so thank you.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you. That is why we have been having these conversations and had
attached the temporary generator.
Teresa Burgess: And just for council's information. We have not overflowed lift station number
10 since I've been here, and I've been here for 2 years. I asked Kelley this morning what his
recollections were and we couldn't really nail down a timeframe but we have not overflowed 10
recently. We have had some issues with 2 and we have had some issues in 1. The most recent
overflow in 1 was when we had the valve break, and that was directly related to the valve, not to
flow size. Lift station 2, we've had some issues with inflow which is why we're doing those
inflow infiltration improvements to the existing sanitary sewer, and also why we are stepping up
our sump pump inspection. A lot of that is coming from people's sump pumps, and we know it
and we're out there looking for it.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. So the issue is known and you're working on it. Okay, great. Anyone else
who would like to address the council on this issue?
David Igel: My nmne's David Igel. I live at 6195 Strawberry Lane. Madam Mayor, council
members. I'd like to take just a brief moment and thank you for taking the time to address this
issue and also I wanted to commend, I heard nice talk earlier but commend the city staff in this
process that ~ve've been through for a year and a half. We dealt on an earlier project. To name
them individually would take too long but everything from planning to engineering, it's been a
tremendous, it's a big project for us and probably for the city. Excuse me, they've done a great
job.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you for sharing that. Appreciate it.
David Igel: Yes. Now I don't know that they get enough accommodation. I hear them getting
kind of hit here and there but, there's a few issues and I won't take up much more of your time.
There's definitely a smell coming from the lift station. I'm not sure why some people can smell it
and some people can't. As it relates to what smells bad and what doesn't, you know there are
objective standards on feedlots and different farms and it seems odd to me that if there could be
feedlot standards for farmers essentially miles away, why wouldn't there be for someone who's
16
City Council Meeting - July 8, 2002
house is 30 feet. I really, I don't think it's in the best interest for anyone to spend a great deal of
time arguing about what those counts per billion are, or having different professional sniffers out
there ped~aps. I think that time would be better spent and the money would be better spent just
doing what we felt, what we felt we were bargaining for when we made the voluntary easements,
which we didn't charge anything for. I think we calculated if they were to be purchased, you
know upwards of $80,000. I think we've done our part. I understand you're in a tough situation
with all of the other lift stations. I think we've heard from a couple people tonight and if
someone were to go and ask everyone around all of the 29 lift stations, I think you'd probably get
a few more complaints about the smell than you've gotten so far so. I would just ask that you
would consider addressing that. I think it's the right thing for the city to do. My one other point
is regarding the screening. I'm looking at Option A on the site plan that was produced by
Bonestroo, but it appears, at least in this, that the intent has always been to screen the entire thing
including the control boxes and the wet well. If I'm reading that incorrectly, perhaps someone
could correct.
Teresa Burgess: You're looking at the Option A with the expanded wet well and ~vhen we do the
expanded wet well the intention was to screen the entire area. However, when we do just the
generator we were not proposing to do the entire screening at that time. It's certainly something
if the council feels that's appropriate, that we would revise our numbers and look into, and we
can certainly bid it both ways if the council directs plans and specifications be prepared this
evening and see what the price comes to.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
David Igel: Okay, thank you for that clarification. Thank you for your time.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you. Anyone else to comment on this project? Seeing no one, I will close
the public hearing and bring this back to council. Council, any questions for staff?.
Councilman Ayotte: A couple. And first off...what she has to deal with so Teresa thanks for
putting up with all the concerns and pushing forward. Nuisance law, Rog. Do you know
anything about nuisance laws associated with odor?
Roger IG~utson: Yes.
Councilman Ayotte: Could you tell me more?
Roger Knutson: First, it's my understanding unless something has changed in the last 6 months,
just as an example for feedlots, there is no odor regulation for feedlots. I was involved in a
feedlot issue, representing townships and the PCA does not want to go there. Some other states I
believe have, but Mhmesota does not have anything on the books on, per se on parts per billion of
this or that for odor. It's a difficult issue. How many people is disturbed? How strong is it?
How many complaints do you get?
Councihnan Ayotte: So are you stating.
Roger Knutson: We really can't quantify it.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay, there's no mode of measurement. No vehicle for threshold.
Roger Kalutson: There's no objective measurement for it.
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City Council Meeting - July 8, 2002
Councilman Ayotte: Okay. Another question ifI may Mayor. The Igel's stated that, first Mrs.
Igel stated that there was no legal easement and then she stated that there were easements that
they provided to the city and then she stated that they can be pulled. Is that true?
Roger IG~utson: I believe we have all the easements we need and no, they cannot be pulled.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay.
Teresa Burgess: Her statement Bob, ifI can just clarify. Prior to the Igel's purchasing the
property we were in negotiations with the previous property owner. He did not want to give
easements to the city or to have us purchase easements. He preferred to operate under a
handshake agreement with the city. We periodically stopped in and said you know Mr. Swanson,
is it okay if we continue to use this? And he would say yes, go ahead and we would plow his
driveway in return. That was how he preferred to have it. We, approximately 3 to 4 months
before the property was purchased started talking with him about we'd really like to purchase that
easement and he sold the property before we were able to negotiate that. But we had not, ~ve had
access through an alternative location, it just was not convenient access. We would have had to
put in a new road. This access was the most convenient to this parcel and Mr. Swanson was very.
acconnnodating and willing to work with us but he did not want a legal piece of paper on his
property, and we respected that request on his part.
Councilman Ayotte: One last question. Is there a correlation between odor, whether or not it's
measurable and the capacity of the system's that we're addressing? So the greater the capacity
the less the odor. Can we make that statement, yes or no?
Teresa Burgess: The greater impact on odor is really the demographics of the waste. This is
mainly residential which means it's mainly water. It's gray water. It's what comes out of your
sink. It's ~vhat comes out of your sink. It's what comes out of your shower. That's the majority
of the flow. If it was industrial, like lift station 24 was prior to Chaska shutting off, those have a
much stronger scent because we're talking about more volatiles. As long as the lift station
doesn't sit there and just sit there and decay in the lift station, it really doesn't have much of a
difference how long. How much is coming through the system. It's what's coming through the
system that's more important.
Councilman Ayotte: Thank you.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Any other questions for stafD.
Councihnan Peterson: Teresa, as a matter of course in the Igel's memorandum they cite that the
easements would have had a value of 27 and 76,000 respectively and various other numbers.
Again as a matter of course, would we have normally in a subdivision like this reimbursed the
property owners or developers for that?
Teresa Burgess: No. If they had not willingly donated those easements we would have required
them as a condition of the plat approval.
Councilman Peterson: Okay, thank you.
Teresa Burgess: The only way we would have purchased the easement is if they had not platted.
If they had purchased the property and lived in the house, we would have purchased the easement
and we would have paid probably about what they've estimated.
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City Council Meeting - July 8, 2002
Councilman Peterson: Yep. The second question. On priority number 1 where we talk about the
cost with the fence and without the fence. I look at $20,000 for a fence over a small area seems
exorbitantly high, and I don't know whether I'm not seeing something.
Teresa Burgess: The fence includes some architectural interest and some screening elements like
trees. We have to meet, we don't have to. It seems fight that we meet our own planning
ordinances and our own zoning ordinances and planning requirements and so what we did was we
directed Bonestroo to estimate, assuming that we would meet all standards as they would apply to
any private developer. And so the fencing includes some extras that are above and beyond just
putting up a standard split face fence.
Councilman Peterson: So it'd be reasonable to assume, but it wouldn't be substantially higher if
you had to make a guesstimate, it wouldn't be all that substantially higher if we did the control
boxes along with the generator? I got one head shaking no in the back of you so.
Teresa Burgess: In the scheme of things it's not, no.
Todd Gerhardt: We can do that as a bid alternative. Just the addition, you can break it into two
phases.
Councihnan Peterson: I just want to get a sense and the sense is it's not exorbitant.
Todd Gerhardt: Right. I mean you can even, I don't want to play with the architectural style of
the fence but you can look at other varieties of fencing too as alternatives.
Councihnan Boyle: Is the current lift station partially protected by landscaping now, or by trees
or bushes or anything?
Teresa Burgess: Prior to the Igel development to Big Woods on Lotus development, I'm sorry. I
don't mean to refer to it as Igel. I know it's two property owners. The Big Woods on Lotus
development, that area was wooded. A lot of that was saved under a conservation easement but it
is much more exposed now than it was prior to the clearing for that grading. And so it is more
visible. Another issue is that it is right at the curve of the cul-de-sac as they come in. It's very
visible and there's not much we can do about that except to put up some sort of screening fence
with landscaping. And unfortunately the gate will have to be on the side of the street. There's
not a way around it.
Mark Rolfs: Probably you won't downsize the fencing. The whole thing now is that we have to
rip part of it back down when we add the wet well in the future. So that would be, in 3 years
you'd be tearing part of it down. But keep in mind the whole cost is so small in relation to the
whole thing that I think you can pretty much do what you want to.
Councilman Boyle: I think you've answered this question before but is it feasible that one lift
station would have more odor?
Teresa Burgess: Certainly.
Councilman Boyle: Consistently?
Teresa Burgess: Certainly.
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City Council Meeting - July 8, 2002
Councilman Boyle: Than another lift station. I'm not talking industrial. We're talking
residential.
Teresa Burgess: The bigger thing is going to be how much wind do you have in the area to
dissipate odors. What do you have to contain odors? How sensitive is the person living next
door to it? Those are going to be bigger factors than almost anything else. There are certain
smells that I can tell you if you're wearing certain colognes from here. I can tell you if you've
got it on. And there are other smells that I can't smell at all, and other people have that same
thing. Some people are very sensitive to these odors. Some people are not. And that's why it's
one of those things where we really can't quantif,v it because what doesn't bother one person,
may drive another up the wall.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Councihnan Ayotte: Could I ask one more question?
Mayor Jansen: Certainly, Councilman Ayotte.
Councihnan Ayotte: With respect to the lift stations and we may not be able to address for some
period of time. Is there anything that we can do, a more aggressive PM program? A more
aggressive service program that would mitigate risk to those lift stations.
Teresa Burgess: I think our I&I program, our Infiltration and Inflow program is doing a lot of
that and we need to keep on top of that program. We need to keep the funding in those program
that's already there and to use it. And that is probably the biggest thing. We haven't, you know
when we've gone to budget cut, that's always been where we kind of go well, we don't really
need to do that. We need to keep on top of that. We need to keep the televising program going.
We need to keep on top of our sump pump program. And then as far as odor control, there are
some things we can do operationally, and we try them. We don't usually make it real known that
we're playing over here trying to make it better because then what we do is we just wait to see if
the public, you know if we've received some complaints we try to address them. If we quit
receiving complaints, it worked. If we don't, it didn't and that way ~ve're not getting a false
response that we did something and people perceive that it is better because we did something.
We don't want to lead anybody down the garden path. We ~vant to be truthful about it and so
there's some things we do and we do try, but there's not, without expanding the size of our staff
and really going into intensive work on these things, there's not a lot we can do maintenance
wise.
Councilman Ayotte: But what you said was very key and that's in our surveillance program we
should make sure that we keep it alive. That's.
Teresa Burgess: We need to keep on top of that program, and as there come better ways to do it
we need to look for those so that we can save the funds without, we don't want to just throw
money down the hole. We want to be looking for the cheapest way to do the same program, and
we're always looking for that. Looking for cheaper ways for us to do the televising. This year
one of the cost savings we were able to use that is highly effective is, we're having our intern in-
house do our sump pump program and he's going and doing that much cheaper than having a
consultant do it. And all those things, we need to look for cost effective ways to do it and still
keep those programs functional. And so far we've been able to do that. We've been able to trim
from the budget the last couple years. Save some money back and still do the same projects.
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City Council Meeting - July 8, 2002
This year we're doing a very intensive program on our infiltration and inflow, specifically
because of the outcomes of this stud5,. It identified some things that we were not aware of. We
are also at this point doing a sewer metering program that will identify other areas that we need to
do work on.
Mayor Jansen: Okay council, if we could see if we can move this to comments or a motion. I
think we've covered the issues pretty extensively around this particular one and it sounds as
though we can address the screening issue through the bid alternatives as was suggested by Mr.
Gerhardt. But if there are any other comments, otherwise I'll call for a motion.
Councilman Ayotte: I would like to consider, to see whether or not staff can see if they could
formalize a surveillance program a little bit more. Those lift stations that could potentially be an
issue, so not to do it all across the board, but to see if we can increase the surveillance.
Mayor Jansen: I think that might be something to address at another time in that that's covering
more the general system. If we could do that, okay. Appreciate it.
Councilman Labatt: The only conunents I'll make, Teresa, how far is the lift station from the
proposed house on Lot 8? Do you know?
Teresa Burgess: I don't have the dimensions in front of me. I know that there were discussions,
and I haven't seen building permits yet on that house, but there were discussions on could the
deck encroach on the easement or not so we're very close to the home.
Councilman Labatt: So when you say very close, are you saying within 40 feet?
Teresa Burgess: Yes. I would say we're within 40 feet. I can't guarantee that because I haven't
seen building permits.
Councilman Labatt: Now lift station 26, which is the end of Moccasin Trail, is that right? Is that
the one? Which is right at the end of my back yard. There's no screening there.
Teresa Burgess: No.
Councilman Labatt: The screening that was put there was done by the homeowners.
Teresa Burgess: Correct.
Councilman Labatt: Okay. So I'm just wondering, are we opening up a can of worms here by
potentially having to screen 30. The lift station was there. They subdivided. Created the lot.
They created the problem. In our development we have a house right next door to our's that is
about 22 feet from the lift station and those homeowners screened it themselves with pine trees
and lilacs.
Mayor Jansen: Of the existing lift stations, and this situation I ~vasn't aware of. How many of
them are screened? Is that a question you can answer tonight?
Kelley Janes: ... screening, most of them sit out in the open. The only one I could say that is
screened, and it isn't directly screened, is just that there is a fence marking the easement area next
to Miles Lord's place on the Excelsior/Chan border. There's a fence and gate there but that is
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City Council Meeting - July 8, 2002
just, that's on the border and that's the access for our machines to get through his fence to get to
the lift station which does sit out in the open...
Mayor Jm~sen: Okay. Interesting point.
Teresa Burgess: And as was pointed out earlier though, the generator would, by our own codes,
be required to be screened.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Councilman Labatt: That's what I'll comment. I mean you know, it seems like a self created
problem here.
Councilman Peterson: I think as we move ahead, I think we'll, are we not aptto screen them as
we move ahead and build more of them, just to follow our code?
Teresa Burgess: As we've built new ones, the lift stations are really pretty much non-obtrusive
from a visual standpoint. The boxes are a green. They're not, they look like an electrical box.
The wet well is under ground. We don't put buildings over most of them so they aren't that
obtrusive. Wells, we have been screening our wells and we don't do a full screening. We just put
in some landscaping so it looks a little bit nicer. It ~vould be on a basis by basis. Typically
they're being built by developers now and so we typically see them being a little bit more
screened, just because they're going to try and sell that house that's adjacent to it. But it's not
required.
Councilman Labatt: All the lift stations have that same antenna, correct?
Teresa Burgess: Correct.
Councihnan Labatt: So I think that's the most obtrusive thing personally as you look out and see
this 25 foot antenna, but you know. I'd rather look at a green metal box than the 25 foot antenna
if I had a choice.
Todd Gerhardt: That's a very important antenna.
Councilman Labatt: Yeah I know it is.
Todd Gerhardt: That's the most important part because you don't want, if that's not working, we
have trouble.
Councilman Labatt: I know.
Mayor Jansen: Well I appreciate your bringing it to our attention. Thank you.
Todd Gerhardt: The council should also know that each lift station doesn't have a generator with
it. We have only a couple that I'm aware of.
Teresa Burgess: This is the only one.
Todd Gerhardt: The only one, okay. And because of the environmental sensitive area that we're
working in is why we added the generator to this one. And what we're doing is installing a
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City Council Meeting - July 8, 2002
permanent one and taking our temporary away so we can use it at our other lift stations. So that's
why we're screening is because of that generator.
Councilman Boyle: Well I think as long as we're screening the generator I would like to see what
the cost would be to screen the boxes. And precedent setting, possibly but case by case. That's
my thought.
Mayor Jansen: If you want to do, I guess I'm leaning towards the consistency and not wanting to
really stray from that, but if you wanted to include it as a bid alternative certainly you could
include that as part of a motion to take a look at, but I do think we need to look at the long range
implications of what ~ve do. But certainly you can include it as a bid alternative. If we could
maybe go to a motion at this point, if someone could make the motion.
Councilman Ayotte: Well I'll go with the move to approve the feasibility study and authorize
preparation of plans and specs for improvements to lift station 2 and 10 as recommended,
Teresa Burgess: If I could clarify, that's a t'y~po. It should be lift stations 1 and 10.
Councilman Ayotte: So amended. With the caveat that I would like to see screen options in...
Mayor Jansen: Looking for bid alternatives. And ifI could have a second please.
Councilman Boyle: Second.
Resolution #2002-62: Councilman Ayotte moved, Councilman Boyle seconded to approve
the feasibility study and authorize preparation of plans and specifications for improvements
to Lift Station No. 1 and No. 10 as recommended, including screening options as a bid
alternative. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Jansen: And Teresa, you mentioned that the next step in the process, just so everyone's
aware that is here. There will be your open houses then.
Teresa Burgess: The next step in the process, we'll be coming back to council with a cost
proposal for the design of specifications and plans for these two pieces and we'll be scheduling
the remainder of the project in the CIP. Once we're approximately 60 to 70 percent plans, when
we actually have something to share with people but we're not too far to make some major
changes, we'll send out a notice for an open house and meet with the neighborhood to make sure
that we're on the right track. That we're not missing something important and so they have a
chance for input in the design process.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, great. Thank you.
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