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1j Approval of MinutesCHANH.4,~ CITY COUNCIL WORK SKSSION JANUARY 13, 2003 STAFF PRK,qENT: Todd Oca'hnx~ Jn~.ia Milkx, Todd Hoff. ta~ Tca'eaa Burgeas, Kate Aanenson, Bruce DeJong and Mark Litt~ DISCUSSION OF ~XX)~ED 2003 BUDGET Mayor Purloag q ,u~ '.oned the revenues being suggested from Park and Recz~on, i.e.. char~' ~ fo~ parking at the 4 ofJuly~. CouncilmanA~~d~~~~ sponsorslfip for tho fireworks. Todd HotYmnn explained how the corpcm~ spomc~'ship program cummtly works, but stat~ I~ could aak for ~p strictly for the firewoflrs. It was There wns lengthy di~c~ regnrding shutting off street lights ns a way to save up to $100,000 in the budget. Termn Burgess had a handout showing numn'rms cost saving options. Councilman AyotIe wanted to receive input from the Carv~ County SheaSff's office regnnflng street lights off. Todd Gerhardt su~ that the cooncil membe~ drive down West 78a Street between Powet~ Boulevard and I-~way 41 to see the ~ between having a~et ti~ohtn on maximize a eo~t ~avings f~r the ~ lights. $10,000 each. Todd (3eduudt asked that this item be placed on the Consent ~ for approval. The work semion meeting was recemed at 6'..q5 p.m. for th~ r~nlatty sahadul~ CRy Coundi ~ The work session was rmmvet~ at 8-.35 p.m. to conttnne ~ on the 2003 budget. Tea~sa Bm'gegs and Justin l~r-__fller ~ their proposed cuts. Commilman Ayotte ~ concern over cutting back ou employees and the i?act that would have on staff. ~ Petea'son statrd it was noble of Fire Chief Wolff to offea' to cut his $2~500 salary but said he did · ~ew[m~ el~e in the ~ I)epmuae, at badg~ Mayor Furlong wam~ to make a~ m~ny cuts as pogsible now, but to delay ~tMitional cuts until mid-year when the City would know e, xactly the Fire Depatmm~t charging for house and car fires that a~ mi~ from inmmm~ comtnmiea, company basis v~sus I~r vehicle basis, and charging fer vehicle lock-om'~ There was considerable discussion over whe~er to provide cr no~ provid~ th~ lock-em service for vehicle, and ii'so, what should be the fee charged for such a servic~ Mayor Furlong adjourned the work session meeting at 9'.40 pan. Subl~tt~] by Todd ~ ~ COLq~CIL RF, G~ MEETINC:, JANUARY 13, Aanenson, Tel~a Burgess, and Bruce DeJong PUBLIC PRESENT FOR ALL ITEMS: Janet & Jerry Paul~n Debbie Lloyd O&T S oF Julianm Omm.n Jill M_~kn'e Prank Mendez Nancy & Sam Mancino Deb Kind Susan McAlli~r Anne Furlong ired Family Minne~a ~ Sem~ 381 Deerfoot Tmil 7361Kla've~ Poim Road 8600 Gmat Pla/ns B~ C-alpin Boulevard 2930 West 78a Street - 935 Wesum Ridg~ Parkway. C~ska Mayor Purlong: We've called the meeting to c~lez. I gue~ I'd just like to ~ Commitman Lundquist if he wants to say a couple wcrds. A few comments. CouncilmanLundquist: Sum. Thanks Mayor. What I re~lly wanted to say' most to everyc~ is thanks. Have a lo~ of thanks to say to my family and ~ the c~ volun~ws. Todd, you and your staff for taking a lot of tinz out the last couple of weeks and nxmtha W try to g~t me up to _spe~__ fa~ The 2,866 vo~ who c~t a vo~ fur me W pm me here on Novemb~ ~', thank you very much. And wnight I gt~ss the work ~y begins m~d we have a lot of w~k to do so look forward to a fun and exciting upcomln~ few years with a new coun~ and new mayor. And just one other Wpic I wanted to talk about, really is _comm~mlty participation in government. Remember that theae five people up here, includ/ng myself, w~e elected to represe~ you and it's vitally important that you let your council members know whe~ you stand on issuea and I council I had nev~ nm for any public office, I never serv~ oa any commissions, I don't belong to any civic or community organizations. I waa just Joe Citizen. And one thing I did a lot of was council and change ~l~t- My first msIxmse was I wouldn't standachaxs:e. Well look at what a little hard work and a good me~age can do. So my message to you is you can maim a ~ but only if you choose to participate. And h%n~ again to all of you and I look forward to C. ouneilman Labatt: Well I didn't hav~ aaythin~ ~ ~o I'll ahoot off from my hip. I just would also lilmm thank all th~ reaideata of~ that looimd atrm owr the lair4 ye. am and decided to cazt one of their voms for me for anotim' 4 yealx, to show their support and the loadezt~p Fv~ displays! in the last 4 ye.a~ and th~ m~amtg~ Fv~ I:ztmght m them fo~ my next comin_.-up4ygars. IthoughtI'dbet~r, it'salsomywife'shirthdaytonight. Slm's25st~lsoI want to wish her happy birthday. She's at a hoclmy arena right now, but I'm lookinE forward to the next 4 yea~. I think last Monday where we met with the two ~ council member, we really looking forward to the next 2 years ami 4 years with some of you so I'll eat it with that. Mayor Furlong: Alright,~you. I guess Fd like to say wh~t an honor it is to greet you as your new mayor. I amvery grateful for thi, ~ to serve andIlookfc~ntrd to ~ with other members of the council, the many _commlasimea~, and the city staff aa we seek to facing some challenging fuumcial ~. As part of ti~ 2003 budg~ process, this couacil's first Furth~, givea the projected state budget ~ it's l~ely that we will lose some stare funds that minimizing the i .re!mcr of the state's budg~ crisis on our city's budget. Clearly none of these inifi"~ves in the area~ of plamfing and development, public safety, public works, parks and accomplislumnts. Your ongoin8 feedback's going to be crifi~ for us to be able to ~___ccompliah PUBI,,IC ANNOUNCEMENTS: form~ Mayor Don ChmieL And I'd ~ to read a procls~tlon now and ask f~r a motion from council to adopt it. ~ Dan Chmiel honorably ~ ti~ city of ~ aa mayor f-ca- 8 ye. ars from 1988 to 1996, being elected in 4 eon~eutive elections; and ~ Mayor Chmlel presided as mayor during a time of considerable growth in the _ccanrmmlty and manag~ the 2 Chmiel was beloved by the council with which he saved, the city staff and o ....... i~aiions and the busine~ comnmnity; and ~, everyone who ever had the oppcrtunity to meet Mayor Chmiel knew him as a mayor who 8uppm'ted their effort~ ~ made evm'y snmupt to not only be Mayor Chmicl's death on _Dece__-mber 18, 200~ b~ will always re~ember him as a ~mazl and family. Is the~ a mo~ion to adogt t~e procl~fim? Councilman Labatt: I'd move ttmt we approve and adopt Mayor l:{Urlong:. Is there a second? Coum:iln~a Ayoti~: I Mayor Furlong: We have a plaque here thnt we ~ forwn~ onto the family. Thank you. Fd lik~ to, p~r reque~ mow the item, tl~ orgnniznti~ meeting matte~ until afar the visits' ~tions to accc.,.v.r.'l,~ ,omc requc~. W~th tl~ we'll ~x~ve onto the consent ~ CQ~ AGENDA: approve the following n_ go n. eonsent a~da lt~m~ Immumt to the CRy ~s Reaoluflon g~03-01: Aplxove Plans & Specifica~ons; Auth~ize Adveatiseme~t for Bids for Utilities in A~hl~n~ Meadows 2~ Addition. Project 02-07a. Approve P'mdinga of Fact, Axe. l's Liquc~ Violation. Res0/ution #~03-iB: Appwve C2umge Order No. 1 f~ ITlghway 101 Trail Consuu~oo, Project 97-12-3. Approve Amendment to Development Cmlract f~ Hiddea Creek of Chnnhn _~"~. Approval of Minul~: -City Council bfmutes a,~.,t December 2. 2002 -City Council Work Session Minut~ al.mt I)cccmtxa' 9, 2002 3 City Council Meeting- January 13, 2503 Ali vottd in hvor and tht moron tarrh~ unantmmu~ w'd:h a v~ d $ to O. VISITOR PRIgS~A~O~ ChrisTurnholm: Thank you Mayor and Council mcmbcrs. My nan~ is Chris ~ Ilive at 6321 Trapline Ci~le in Chanhasscn, and I just cazne W ask you to consider when you rruah, ~ choice f~r official newst)ap~ fc~ the city to maybe th~k of makin~ a chan~ I watch, I'm a seemed to be quite politicaL It took sidm. Som~whntdevisiveamlljustthinkmaybeit'satime, and I know it's on tl~ agemla tonight but maybe you could delay it and couxid~ maybe taking a friendly community paper. Idoa't~th~owncrofthepap~. Idon'tknowtheeditarbutI know that you have a chance tonight to vote with yom- d~llars on your advertinin~ dolla~. I think it's a budget item and maybe it's time to have some colnpet~on and look at another newspap~ and maybe send a message that we want a kimtcr and friendlier local newspat~z, politically. Thank you very much. Councilman AyoRe: That's not appropriate. C. onrad Fiskness: Thank you. Fm Conrad Fhknms. I reside at 8033 C3aeycnne Avenue here in Chanhassen. Howeve~ I'm not here ~ just myself. But first I would h]m to ou your recent scl__,~i_'on to the e. le~ion, and wish you a great 2 yea~ hem nn we move dong. I'm here on behalf of the Riley-Pm*gato~-Bluff Creek Watershed District. I zeprese~ I'm the only Carv~ C. ounty mpmsculativ~ on that boa~ rv~ berm ~ a number of ytars ~nd Fv~ tri~l m ma~ituphe~e, ath.~v~'y2yearsatthiR~me~fing. Todd nods his hta~ I-~'ss~mrm ~ I~fom, aml just warn to maim s~am that tho~ of yo~. tad the~'s at l~ast on~ of the ~ you to imow who you m'~ being rel:n'e~eated by on that ~ And want to let y~ lmow that I'm always available.. If there's any issue that you would like to have son~ discu~ion regarding, o~ staff is available., rm going to leave some cards here thnt hng th~ ~ ~ ~ th~ two imm that I would ~ to just me~tioa. W~'w be~a working with tl~ City of Chaaha~,~ for a numb~ of y~Lr~ nOW on a Blllf~ ~ ~ wnt~- mall~t projocL for~, and tl~ gore back what, 6-7 y~ars may~ Todd huh. TI~ ~ of ~ubmitt~d n l~titio~ for o~r involv~m~ and thc~'~ ~ siL2niFu:a~t mmlcCa~ inydvemeat, would mX he.. ~ can b~ 100 pc~c~t participatioa oa aaythiag relating to w~t~ maaa~me, at. 50 percent o~ ot.h~ programs and ovtm 25 ~ cm land a~laigitio~ so City Council Meeting - January 13, 2003 actually eagexly awaiting that. We could go ahead acO. rally on our own but we really want to have the city in sync with us and so we've bee~ hying back and working with the staff and hopefully we're not too far away on that sco~.. ~y, or finally the last thing that I want to nr~ion is th~ om'district has prepax~ a power ~ ~on and oar board wo~ld come tofie~ with some of our staff and we would be very ~ in presen~g that tothe council and any other staff membe~-s tl~ you would choose to have come along. We've done it fca' a number of the oth~ cities in our district. We have 7 different cities and I don't know that that we would be deligh~ to be able to come and present that. Hspeci~y for the new nxm2x~ of the council, it would give you a good idea of how a walrrshed opera~. A little bit of our histm'y. We have been aroand since 1969, and az aboard so thafs really all I have m ~ W you tonigh~ and thank you for your time. Conrad--: No. No, that'sanoth~one. Thee~etl~yoaapprm~tonightisfo~l~l~. Riley, correct? Mayor Furlong: Right. ConradPhkness: And that' s a joint one with Eden Prairie. Thison~I'mtalkktgaboutisBluff Creek, trot it will f-un~ in the same mannm' exce~ that Bluff Creek you won't be sharing with Eden Prairie. Mayor Nurloug:. Okay, thank you. Any other visitor lXeSeaimJons7 Shexiff. Sheriff Bud Olsou: That's a big mic. Mayur and council. I'm Sheriff Bud Olsc~. I'm also a resident of _C~,nhs~u and I'm he~ tonight jus~ on invimtim, just to br~g you up to speed as yo~ probably are well aware the Carver County Sheriff's Office has ~ conffacting with the City of Ctmnhas~n for mauy years. And I've been working on a plau for about 2 years W look ~ mmounced it in the office on Priday, ~ is an ~ty for supervisc~ to move through sonm ca_rt~ developm~t assigmmx~ Some new ~ts. We gave that option m all the division. Actually h~ was looking ax a time line of next year. As you know we do have a contract it's a big ~bility and Dave's done it vexy well. As w~'v~ moved into this ~, we identifi~ that Dave did want to look at the patrol division agaim He hn~m't serv~ much in that capacity since he's been a supervisor, taxi so we were given tl~ ~ to look at that move now in tiffs next year. So I'm just here today just to let you know that thexe is a clumge comin5 within the conmu:t for the city and I will bring thst plan further to you as w~ move forward but I just wanted to let you know that even ttmugh uxlay's your ~ crganizati~ day, ~ a~ things moving around t~.t affect you and your counc~ and I thought ~ would !~ an appmpfia~ Mayor Fudong: Great, thank you. City Council Meeting- 1anuary 13, 2003 Toddcotha~ Onequesfion. Sh~iff Ols~ will the~ be an ~ty for the coun~ to meet the new chief law enf~ offleer~ We do have our next meeting is N~ 27~. Coonc~ Labatt: Janum'y 27~. Todd CoeHucrdt: January, sorry. Way ahead of myself he~ Sheriff Bud Olsou: This year just took offoa you. Todd ~t: I just want to g~-t into that budget section ag~.in. Sheriff Bud Oison: I'msureyon~re. Abs~. Asyouknow, the last time we assigned the I think that's a really i?ortant fit to rrm~- sur~ that we haw the right p~rson doin~ the job Sheriff Bud Oison: Y~p, thanks council. Good Mayor Purlong: Thank you. Any oth~ visitor preseutati~? If not we'll close the ~ons and bring it b~k to council. ~ ar~ no Imbli~ hearln~ scheduled for this eyeing and no which we delayed. Mayor Furlong: Okay. We'll take that up und~ council ~ Councilman Ayotte: And I wouki also like to sddr~ss the issue of uewspgp~- fi~:gn a council position, if I may. Mayor Purlong: We'll ~ that up undo. Councilman Ayotte: It doesn't have to do with the c~anizafional aspect. I'm just ~ about the issue of newspap~. Not the Villager. Not any particul~ uewspap~r, but newspa~. Okay~ Todd ~ Mayor, that could go ~ council im~ntations as it~n number 7. Councilman Ayotte: The Public Safety Commission discussion I would also Hi~ und~ council 6 City Council Meeting - J~musry 13, 2003 Councilman Ayotte: Bless you. ORGANIZATIONAL MEEI'ING. Mayor Furlong: Item number 1. This inforr,~,tion was dizuibuIed in the council's packet for this cveaing. The first item (a) relate~ to the naming of official newspaper for legal notices. The City Manager h~ reco~ the ~ of the C]~nhass~ V'dlag~. I will opea it up for Councilman I.sh~ I would move thai we appolul the Villager as the only official desi_'? newspaper that mee~ the state guidelines as published in our state ~r~rm--s. Mayor Furlong.. Well, a motion's bee~ rr~ae ~o I l~w to at 1~/ask for a secand. Is the~e a ~:c~i to the motion? Couucilman AyotI~: Fll second it_ Mayor Furlong: Them is a motion and been seconded. So now we will discuss the motion. Is the~ any discussion? several references in the statutes to what it takes to meet these guidelim~ Yon have to have an office. You don't have to have an office. You have to have circulation or can you just go over RogerKnutson: Cemtainly. Actually there aru two parts to it. Ffrst, yon have to be a legal newspaper and that's pr~ly easy for almost any newsimlxm' to accompligh_ II m~ans it ge. ts circulated in ~gli~h and you have a certain nnmher of people you digtribum it to. TI~ harder part, the part you _need__ to ze~o in on is the stav.~e that ~ays, among Iegal newspaper~, bore is the priority of making the appointment, and what the stature says, if a newspaper, ti~re is one more than one, thauyoucanchoosean~~ Betweeu~~on. Aimownoffice you go down to the nexi criteria. Asecoudary ofH ce in the cily. IfanewsPatx~hasasecc~dary office, or more than one of thoze, then you have to choose from a:,~ th~m. Known offx:e, now excuse me. A secondary office nzaus an office that's mlp,lndy open. that has a mpaRer thu~ at least on a part tim~ b~i~ and accepts advertising from thst office. That's a secondary office. If there are no newspatx~ in tl~ ~ that have a secondary office, then yon go down to any follow this order. Councilman Lundquist: So the two ~om that we have are one fi'om tl~ Vill%o~r and om from the Lakeshom, and being that the V'dlager me~s the secopdm'y office and ]_akedio~ does not have an office within the city of Chanhligsell th~ would qunlify as a secondary office, then that, we're more or leas bomb! by sl~aRe to choose the Villagt~'? City Council Meetin~ - ~anuary 13. 2003 Roger Knutson: Tt~'s correct to C~nnhn~b'~l? ~ ~ other ~~ know ~ if t~ ~ 1:0 bl~ ~ ~ pa~r, ~ would have to in fact establish an office and has the ~ stated an inu~t to that point beyond ~rr?ly submitting a, I mean they've got to know that it's the rules. Todd. Oethardt: I haven't had any discussi~ wiIh ~ Ro~ KnuIsou: I can't answe~ that b~t only can say tim tbe statue's ~ ~ ~ a 1~ ~ Ii's nothing new. ~ Ayotte: But it may, I don't think w~ ds:mid posqxme ~ decision b~ for futm~ discussion points, it may behoove us that when we put a request for, out to newspape~ ~ ~ staur~ t~'s another issue. Pemmally I f~vor ~ V'~r, primarily becaus~ tb~ bav~m't had my name in it f~ tbe last 3 issues. But n~ it may be a point ttmt ~ don't know. I don't know if that's a fitir ~ or not. In ~u~ of be/ug fair. Councilman--: Todd, did you mn tbe numbe~ as to the rates? I know thm it wasn't in tbe packet ~s f~r ~s ram compafis~ _be~_ n,e you didn't feel ss though the Lakeshore met the prm~uisite. I mean it'd be in~ to see what tbe numbe~ really am as far as what kind of Todd Gedmrdt: Just some pre~ numl:m's, tlmy'm slightly lower. ~x)un~ilman l~m~m: Slightly rr,~anlng a thousand or two or 5,000 or? Todd Oedmm~ I just did the apples to apples ami ju~ using a 10 iaeh columu, they were a couple of dollam less. Thentbe~. And l didn't go back to r~matr~ how much we spm~ in a year. Councilman ~: I think it'd be in~ to find out whether or not th~ are substantially lessor. What does a couple dollars mean I guess is what I'm trying to ask. Todd Oedmrd~: We can do that. Councilnmn Landquist: Yeah just from the fim,~. Todd I'm looking, it looks li~ my conve~sfions with the ~ and ~ pricing you put in the pack~ tlmy're abo~ they're 960 Ira' col.,~,, inch and the Villager's 1060 per col, ...... inch so I'd be intere~ed in what fl~at n~aus to us over the course of tbe year and what th~ total dolhr amoum h. I mean I guess at this point it's inoot because we can't, we don't have a choice but if I understand cc~mdy we can at any time... that paper. Is that fight Roger? Roger Knutson: That's correct. Mayor Furlong: Is there auy o(ber discussiou? Seeing ~ we'll call tim City Council Meeting- January 13, 2003 M. ayor Furlong: Ia the~ a s~7 I'il second that. Is thum any discu~ or any ot~ nominations? Councilman Ayotm: I r~ally will not supimrt if h~ ttases me cxmfimmlly aa l~'s done in the past Councilman Peteraon: Iwon't screw withyour chair anymore Bob. Coancitman Ayotm Alrisl - two ~er te~n ~nning December of 2001. I--It hes e sec~d ~er, one ~,er ~. a motion to that effect. Councilman Ayotte: I would like w ask, what'a the duration for the. Councilman Ayotte: Okay. And you said the Mayor Furlong: The city and council does this annually, is tl~ fair? Todd Oedmrdt: Yea. Mayor Furlong: But the Fn~ Depamnem has a two y~r mrm Todd Gedmrdt: CarmcL Mayor Furlong: Is time a second? Mayor Purlon~.. Hearing a second, any disctmi~? infer'marion? Mayo~ Furlong: Okay. Is there any questions or disc~szions ~ regard to the bidding for profe~ional ~wices? Seeing no~ we'll mow on. Official ~. We're ~ to authodze the Finance Direct~ to designate an official depo~tcry. Whil~ thia is an orglmizatkmal Fd lik~ to enumain a motion to, is that our nex~ it=m on bt~[~s? Mayor Furlong: Okay. Do we have to officially delay this? Should we lay this over fc~ 30 seconds so we can pick it up or can we just move cra7 Todd O~hzrd~ You could combine those motions. Bruce DeJong: Well let me state fc~ the record Mayor Nudcmg ami co~meil memb~ that authorize deposi~ are separate fi'om those who are azt.,,qy handling your checking acco~ This is just merely allowing the city t~ deposit money into banks within the city. So it's a~ of I can do something you know, cea~gnm~ of deposit at banks tlmt do not have our banking wc~k with those local financial insli'"'"'"'""~fions. Mayor Nudong: So what Fm bearing tbe~ is this is segerate from imm 3 undea- o~ agemia? l0 City Cotli~il ~dee~n~ - Janua~ 13, 2003 Mayor Furlong: So is the~ a preference at this point for the council to srlaress this separamly from nnrnher 3? Is that what Fm headng? Councilman LabalI: If I'm bea_dng Bruce right, it's two separa~ things. This is ~ Bruce to take som~ money and go to this bank, take SOlm money and go to that bsnk ~ 1Tmire Bruce De. long:. Yeah. In fl~e absence of any council action, I'm auIhodzed by stsc. law to desig~s~ up to four autbadzed deposit~'ies. There's ~ than four banks in town so it just Mayor Furlong: Okay. as previously ~tntexi? Councilman ~ So moved. Mayor Purlong~. Any discu~ion? I)ireetor to desi~nntt authorized ~ nnd ~ invelrnnenis at tn~dmtlons thnt Mayor Furlong. We'll nx)ve on. Councilman Petenozc I didn't think he r~lJ]y kl~w that ~o thnt'~...plit th~ in thea~ Rog~ Kn~: This time of year bu~ine~ is kind of ~low. 11 City Cotmcil Meeting- January 13, 2003 CONSIDER PROPO~T,_~ FOR BANIONG $ERVICE& National Bank. one from the Chanhass~ Bank and one from M&I Bank. And afar ~nzlnating those proposals I am recoau~s~ding that we go with M&I Bank~ They have come in very aggressively and hav~ waived all of their fees in exchan~ for us keeping a ec~tmnsafi~g balance in the~ of $1.5 million, which th~ will pay us intexest on at a rat~ of 1.75% on all collect~ funds. SoIguessthatiss~flyabo~theothezpropesals. Thepropasalfi'~m~ Chanhassen Bank was r~y 1.. excuse me. $1.700 in es~rr~ money ~ni,~. The roughly $1.S00 per month so on an interest earr~g basis and with the lack of fees. I think that's in the city's beast inter, st Councilman Lundquisu I have a question of Bruce. As rm looking through the proposals, you mentioned the $1.5 million balance required by M&L Is that gum:rally an issue with our cash flow? Doyou se~that asapmblem? Ar~ we going to rr, ske. tl~sr~unt? A_mwenot, orwhat's the probabiUty if we don't? BruceDeJong: No. I don't see that as being a problem to keep a ~lsm,-e of $1.S million in ttme. Councilman Lundquist: Okay. Councilman Petersou: ~ thai question. What was our avenge balame the past couple years? Has it been over a million or is it $200,000 c~'7 BruceDeJong:. No, it has been over a million. The past couple of years as the inlrreat ra~s have gone down steadily, quite honestly have been earn~n~ better intm~st at the bnnio~ than thn:mgh Councilrnan Pearson: So we're essentially not doing anything ~ by changing banks? We're not increasing our balance pez se, at least substantially. Brace De.long: No, not substantially. Mayor Furlong: A couple questions. Again, continuing along tt~ line of ~ bahmce nuq~. Undur M&I proposal they had a mquimmunt for a ~nimum balanc~ calculation, whereas I believe Chanhassen Bank was an average daily balang~. ~y the rrdnimnm balance I think would be a ax)re restrictive coveuant requi~ versus a9 average daily balance. How is our volatility in our checking balance and did you re-look at the nnmhexs in terms of the ~ on monthly ~? Applying th~ sau~ standard to Ctumtuuss~'s proposal. 12 City Council ~ - Sanuary 13, 2003 Bruce DeJong: I did have a discussion today with Touy Stockard from M&I who is here in the audience. Along with lames Haugen, who's tl~ President here and Kevin Pleasant who is wha~ a m/ninmm balance. I think thst we can certa/nly ~ w keep a ~m~m ~ in there. That's really not ~y ~t w/th the way we tr~k o~r daily c~sh balance lin1 there, if we do go below that rr~imum $1.5 milllca, at that point we would drop down to a money market rate which would 1~ in th~ ne~,hl~'hood of I ~ so we would be los/ng some money but interest will be calc~ln~/m a daily b~a so it's ~ot a hu~ issue if we do ~m you know a one or two day b~g drop below. Bruce Delong: 'rhe~ will be some loss becauie we'll have some exlra checks that will be destroyed that we will not use if we change bsnlo~ but that's tidily minimal. We are to the point where we really only have a 2 to 3 month supply of checks on hsmt at this point, so we need to other significant costs that would be incurred/n switching l~n~. Ttz~'s cemfinly not E~/ng to be m~ch chan~ in uavel dis/m~ce to the bank. We're kind of ~ by the two b~h tl~ we're talking, throe bsnk~ actnslly with TCF too. 'I'aey'm all within walking ~ T'~y'vo ~ to print up the deposit ticket~ for us and everything so I don't see thru as being an off- setting cost that's significant en~gh to chan~ the d__~cision. Mayor Nm-long: Okay. Are the~ any otl~r questions? Councilman Lmutquist: Yeah, one mor~ tn the proposal Brace for the Chan Bank, they talk about perks for our employees. Special accom~ and otl~r vehicles that sr~ av~ilsble to the city debt now at the Chanhassen Bank? Bruce DeJong:. Yes it is. I'm not sure how many employees tak~ advantage of that, and I'm not sure that you know these s_re si~mificantly diffemmt than accom~ that are g~m-ally available. CoundlmanLundqui~ Andth~soauyi,~'~wh~,Ididn'tseeti~intheM&INwposaL So auy idea what happens to o~r employees if, do they get ~ in because they kave tbo~e the~ nnymom o~, I didn't see any d~iLi]s aborn nnythin~ llke thnt_ Bruce DeJong:. If you look back on pa~ 14 of their proposal, tlzre is the MI F~r~.loye~ Advanlage, which Fm not sure. I did not quite honestly compare that dh-ecfly to the C~snhassen Bank account, but I would assum~ thst it's sinfilar. eou~cilmim Lundquii: Ohy. But you have no idea, we don't have any ide~__ what's gc~ng m happen if we deckle to change banks with our employees that have those accounts at C'hnn Bank now, it's impossible to say? Bruce DeJong: Yeah, I don't have any idea what would haNpeu to those. Mayor Furlong: Any other questiom for smf~ lfthere'snonewe'llbringitl~lcktocomx:iL Is the~ any discussion? 13 City Council M_~,'oe~g- January 13, 2003 the opportunity to highlight the/r suppart of the ~ty in the evems, o-_,,::,,:..i5, evers that they support and sponsor. I know there's no dollar amount really thru we can associate with those things but I think that's an i .n'~m-t~m point to coasidm' is ~ support throughou~ the cmnmunity accounts that our residents and bu~__~sses have. Now I know M&I's a new bsnk in town, relatively new, so that's no~hing tht~ bur just something thnt stood ou~ to me in the proposals. MJy~r Fudou~. Okay, thank you. Any otl~r discussion? Councilman Laba~ Any time we have a chance to save $12,000 minimmn, I think we have a Bank. Councilman Ayotte: I'll second that Coumilman Lalmtt moved, Councilman Ayotte seeomied that the City CimmSl ~prove switrbing Imnking serviees to M&I Ba~k for thr~ years ~ simwn in the propamd. All voted in f~vor ~ml the motion em-rled ~y with a vote of 5 to 0. APPOINTE~._NT OF COUNCII. REPRI~gl/~qTATIVE TO ~ HIGHWAY 41 ~ CR~ 8COPING. Mayor Furlong:. We've beeu mquesmd to mime a member to the I-~ghway 41 fiver c~dng scopi~ study ~lvisory p~nel, h the~ a staff report? Teresa Burgess: Thank you Maym and Council. TI~~ of'l'mnSlX:Stafioa is Setling up a study, in fact they have already initi.t,-d that study, to look at an allm-nafive croesing son~wlmre bctwe~ the exis~/g Highway 41 and existing Highway 101 crc~n~ of the ~ River. rrzmbe~ of the policy advis~ comm~tme and _to~i~o~t I'm asking that the count/! choose one of e~neering department will remain ~s the point of contact. We will keep a ~e on your behalf f~ e~e of if thai l~'SOn h~s to switch, and also frown the stm~lpo~ of ~msur~ng tha~ w~ sre not ~___u:er~ding exce~ive m~.~%os tirol do not apply to ~ W'r~h that I would s~k that the Mayor Fudong: Okay, thank you. Are there shy questi~ for staf~ Commilman Ayo~: Do you have an ia~.-~ Teresa what the skill set would be? Is there a pm- Teresa Burger: MnDot has specifically request_,~4_ an elected official That is the cmly qualification they have asked for. 14 City Council Meeting- January 13, 2003 Mayor Furlong: So they want no skills. Councilman ~: You're fully qualified. Mayor Furlong:. Okay, any other questions? Councilman Ayotte,: Yeah, a coupl~ mom. What ~ cc, mmitmeat, activity, invo~ what, can yo~ mil us a littl~ bit alx~ the scope? ate typically elected officisg tl~ don't have a lot of time and they really don't want to meet mm'e oft~ than tl~y have to. The selection of time period would be by the ~. Tl~y would decide what fits the most members of the committee. So far they have had one mer. i~.g, Councilman Lal~-' Well where are ~ ~y meeting at Teresa? Way ov~r in St. Pa~l? Teresa Burgm~: The last meeting was held locally, and I have not receiv~l an ~ ~ the next meeting ye.t. Comgilman Ayotte: Well you know I feel this is pretty loomy goosey. I mean what, ~ me what good this is going to bring to C~lanhal~m~? ~ rrm som~ ~ on h~w a ~ ideas of what v~ can do on this pa~l s~ what wiIl the city pmfiI by onr involvem~mt. councils for adoption. The City Council will be asked to adopt the final study ~ of location d__~eision, b~t also would be asked them to advccam back to this group as the, council as they prepare to adopt, is that in the City of Chanhasscn's bes~ interest or not. And so they act as a link b~weeAl MnDo~ arid t]~ COUllCi]. Th~ act as a link ~ IVI'nF)o( and tb~ public, and tlxm the policy decision of Mnr)ot as it relates to this study. Mayor Furlong: Is th~m ~on or is there intm~ by anybody to s~we in tl~ capacity? 15 City Cotll~'~ ]V~eet'in~ - Jsntlary 13, 2003 MayorFudong: Thatwundsguod. Let'smalmitinamatio~ ThatCouno'lm~~ represent the City of C'hanha~em Councilman Labatt: I would move that we appoint Mr. I.undqu~ to the PW067AW c~nmitt~.~ Mayor Purlong: Is there a second7 Mayor Pta'long: Would thi~ be ~m approprlat~. ~ to b0'ing Up t]~ tWO ihm'r~ Otlt Of tl~ ~ before we move onto council l~.~enmficms7 Tc~d Gerhal~ Sur~ CO~ AOlt~NI)&; APPROVAL OF BH,I,S ANI) APPROV~ I~OR TI~ ~ ~D~RPAR'rMENT TO PURGHAS~ TWO ~ IMAG~G CAM!ZRAS. they're kind of one and the same but. Myco ..... ~-ots or the reas~ I asked for that removal was to have a discussion by the council on om' thoughts and philosophy on capital projects and other huge purchases going forward. We know what occun~ was the fire ~ had, w~ willinE the capital plan. They we~ able to locat~ or ~ had the ability to purchase two cameras for $10,000 a piece, total amom~ being $20,000. I just wanted to get the other ~ ~ comparable piece of equipment for a lessm' amount if posm~ ar a~ we talking about apprcrvlnE up to that $20,000 amount? Mayor Furlong: Okay. Is there any other, so with regard to the item tm (o), was it just the item relating to the thermal ~ pmvJ~se? Councilman Lundquist: Yes. Yes. 16 Mayor Furlong: Bo from that regard, rrmybe we'll bypass (o) and go to (q), if that's xeally the iss~ and the~ maybe we can solv~ (o) with (q). I sound like a matht~afician. So let's move Councilman I_atba~ I guess, you know rm going to talw a look at it from a ~ conte, xt of when wc approved the budget last year, thc capital ' ~rmpro~ plan, sec said $'20,000 for one carn~ Now F'n~'s gone out and found anoih~ piece of equiprmnI thai costs half as less and are now of ouffitfing what trucks and I think the question befo~ us now is do we autta:rize the $10,000. Tl~'stt~equestioutous. And t~ me it seems like a no lm~er, leCsjustdoit. C-eti~ Councilman Lundquist: St~vc, train-, sure I understand you correctly. T"ncn your philosophy is, you'l~ looking at it as $'20,000 no rrm-~- how many ittm~ they could pray. haze of comparable ~ Labatt: Well rm looking at it az a budget and a capital plan that we approved last year, the previous council and it said $20,000 for one camera. And now they've come and said we've found a different camern, model whatever, Immd wbstewer, ~ $10,000. And so now it's up to us to say well okay, their ~ wish was two ~ last year for 40, and we said n~ One camera for 20. Now they've come back and done a little mom research s,vt said okay, we plan to reflect $10,000 next year. CouucilmanPuim'son: AndIdon'tthinktl~t'stheis~- rminconcutxcncewithgoingu - and moving ahead with the ihea',,'~{ iomooers but I think Brian's question is more ph~osophicaL Am we approving an item or are we approving a dollar amo~t; and I mi-~ rd be more motivauxi it And by example of thermal imag~, we aren't golng to be buying one in 2003, comxx? CouncilmanAyotte: Was~ andldou'tremember. W~stheretuothercaum~forlxtrchsze fuxtber out? Councilman !-~{-mI: Yeah. Councilman Ayotte: Okay. So if we zeroed out, it'd be like an economy of scale purclm~. If you zero out the camera Into- on so that ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ now, nnd what we may wnnt to be talking towards is an amemtsmmt stayed so w~ have it as a matter of public mccrd, that the motion for the out year purchase, fct the following year pmchase. Does that make s~nse? 17 City Council M~ing - January 13, 2003 Councilman Labam It do~ to th~ point w~ if w~ ixn~ tl~ 2007 ~ tt~ last y~tr of tt~ capital plan. We. llthm'e's~in2004,5,6and7. Okay. Th~te's~~a~wl~'sto~ay that tl~ council in 2006 do~a't chang~ th~ capital plan. That's not my whole., I mmm it can clumge every year. What w~ approw t~day c. anc. han~ ~ 2 ~ ~ 4 ~ ~ ~ ~ ff ~ thea. Ifyou wantmdoaze, ma~tl~ottm'ead. I_~t'sd~wl~awehavec~mtml overthene, xttwo Coum:ilman Lundqui~ And I agr~ Stm, e ~nd Bob with your points ~ bu~ I wa~ just looking number of imms be~tu~ that will affect bow w~ maim ~ going f~ward on om'capital Cxamcilman Ayotte: Well I'm not a philo~pher but I do think you h-lng ap a good point and ff we're going to be taking a look at how we review budge, we ahouldn't be do/rig, we aho~ ~ gm-~ lalJmd~ to tl~ a~ff W work within tl~ eongrainta of a budg~ but that budg~ is ba~d ~ tl~ baai~ ofea~imat~ Andth~l:maiaof~rrm~haaamtional~. Soonthispa~eulm:i~I~'t hawahardtirr~ayiagy~toth~ 20IC Ir~lly don't. Bmi~youwanta~oahoww~ ahould go foomud, what I I~li~v~ w~ ahould do with ~ to going fca~,,md...on ~aeh ba~ of e~n~t~.. Ireally think that that haa to happea. Sold~n'tthiakwealKmldapgm~$"20,000or Councilman Lmvtqui~ F_.stima~ of number of items purcba _~ Councilman Ayott~: Probably. I mmm I think the~ i~ aome., in ~ cas~ it may not b~ th~ ca~ but in this inatan~ it mah~ sease to buy both b~c. au~ it's an econo.my of scale. T~chnology's ~rr~J~dy just give me the gong? Councilman ~: No. Councilman Labatt: No. It'sthetZlreDepartmeatg~fing~ Tl~y~~,,,alimaga~. Councilman Ayotte: ff you want an answ~, the answers is yos. We should go by itmm but I think we've go~ to g~t this imm approved b~ause it makes mase~ Todd Geflmrdt: Maym' I'd just lfim to ~a tl~ point that it ahould be bas~l on th~ imma and stuff wo~ld lilm th~ flexibility of bringing the~ ~ back when we have oppc~unities like th/~_ To bring it back in front of you for f-u.qher direction. I think we did thi,~ hhi~ ~ summer with the 800rmgabertz~o~ And we try to uack tbew~ We give you our be~ estimam when we put the capital plan togetb~, but opportunities coxm available every once in a while and we'd ~ Mayor Furlong:. Okay. Any ot.h~ diaem~ion? Thm'e was suggestion with regard to d,,allng with the 21X)4 capital plan. Probably not th~ _oecd__ ~io~ W talin ea~ of that. 18 approve ~ two caracas fc~ $20,000. Is them a mo~iou7 Counciltnan Peterson: I make a motion actually to approve both (o) and (q). o. Approval of Bills. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS. Mayo~ I~H~ Is the~ any ~ or update repc~a~ fi'om any council m=mb~'s? No~h~ng from Southwest? Okay. Alright, any~ing from the 41 riv~' cr~sing at th~ point? Councilman I.amdquist: No~ing to report fight now Mr. Mayor. sessions, both old and new council members I th~k agree that public safety is ~ly important And I'v~ g~me back to all of my no~ and some of the vaciHati~ that are going on, That I believe we ~ w~thin the ci~ of Chanh~sen som~ n~easure of stability in tenns of a conne~on. In terms of liaison. We have a lot of things going o~ We have a certain nnmhez of ordinanc~ that may ~ may not be getting enforced, local cgdinances that may notbe apart oftl~ policing activity. We certainly have witnes~xl public safety ismms outside of the ~ of policing. Stechaboch~ spore, black mold, the West N-fie virus, to name a couple. We've hsd some old standby crime still alive and well DUI's ate still something very prevalent in Carver, City Council to sense the view of public safety in _C~nhs,.sea. I don't want it to be politicized as it has in the pasc I want to deterrnlne fl~e public safety needs as further la~ develolrmmt ~. I want to see a coaduit to continue especially with ndghbcrhcxxi watch, especially in light of want to see a m~surement of our reutal lxxudng inspection Frogmm which is brand new. On whether or not that really is son~hlng that we ought to be putting our hat on as much as we have. I want to continue to monitor the Project Leadfoot. I want to see a link ~ tl~ residents and 19 City Coa~cfl ~- January 13, 2003 the ~ office of Homeland D~fe~e to determine ffw~ underaand the rnsnrl,~: Now, I've got an e-mail from my wife, and Fd better rr~ comrneat on this because I think she's absolumty fight. Public safety, with respea to homelami defen~ is no longer ~imply a local ~ nor au option. Federal government will be giving us direction. Unfunded direction. Aha so therefore I seethatis yet another need for public ~uff~y. And I think we m~__ that conduit. Ithinkwe ~__ And I want to move to establish immediately a 7 person public safety co,,,,,,i~ie~ Thai tl~ 7 person body is charl~ k's first year to de/m-mine which aniinanc.~ are and are not being annivemu'y of it's inception, recomnzmd to council a banafide chax'mr so that we get off of this vacillation. And so at the end of that one year wetake alooksee, but I think we have to establish that co_ mmisaion with a motion. MayarPurton~. Tl~re's bee~ang~on. Istherea__sec_~ggt? Mayor P~-lous: Okay, ttmi's ~ Is themu discussion on the motion? Councilmsn Labatt: I think tha~ this would be a golden oplxmmfity in liEht of the Stzriff Olson's earlier co.~nts on changing the guard up here. The law emfc~x:emem liaisan between the Carver County $1miff's of Y-s:e and the City of Ctumhassen. To ~ that person into ttri~ 7 person body. Is that what your plan was Bob? CouncilmanAyotte~ I said with staff ~ Ididn'tdefinethst_ If you want to dea'me it, to have it as this new pergm, ~t w~ be fine. My concern is that I don't want this 7 person body to establish a mind set from the get go that it is dedicated to the police comract, or thst it's focus of par~rr~-ter~ are constrained to that functio~ I want to see a connection with tMs 7 persan body with other entities. OSHA, as an example. We have a state level lmmeland defeme office that I'd like to see a further connection. We have a volunteer organization st~t~-wide with homeland defimse. So if it would still allow for that activity, because wt~'s happened in the trust with the prior commission, ~s I saw it, is it was too myopic and it became a head butting to some degee with ~ to police activitie~ snd I don't want to see that ~ So it's got to be a macro view of public safety, not within the dermltloa of policing. Mayor Pm'loug:. Any odmer discusaiou? Councilman Peterson: Yeah. I tbinir that certainly it's a point worthy of discussion snd Fve been participating in that discussion over the last 6 months and I cmainly haven't been opposed to it, and I think we've had some very good dialogue about how we should proceed and some of the merits, both pros and cous of having a co ..... ;ssion, cr whamver you warn to call it. I'm certainly not prepared tonight tn make my dechion ~ I wasn't prepared to mak~ a vote yes or not o~ this tonight, and I don't think it's nece~sanqy fair th~ we put ourselve~ into that position, particular for you two guys that have only participated in discussions over the last 6 months. So my assu .m!gion was we'd have anothex work session at least to ta-ing you guys up to speed to the merits of it and I think staff, I don't think staff is tin.red to ~y ma~ a reco~o~ City Council M~Jng- Ianuary 13, 2003 either tonight so I would certainly not support votin~ a motion toniL~ht but I would, and I'm desiring to hav~ further discussions on it and not to leo~hem the ~. Fm sure Bob wants to move it along, and I appreciate that but it's i .n'!xmant enough where I want to maim a good, CouncilmanAyotte: Iappreciamyourcomments. ldo. And I don't want to usc the lmtaphor I want to use, you know thc one about thc pony and tl~ pile. Or thc horse in thc hay. It's som~ting about, or getting offthc poc Ican't say that on public TVbutImally~wc haveto move it along. And if, for example Brian's comments in our work session when we were talking about let's not miss the opportunity. We are right now, I'm not stating it's polmlar or unpopnlnr, but at war. And our clean, crystal clean antiseptic view of the world sometimes in Clmntmssen, strucaue is down thc road because it ought to be 9 guys instmd of 7. It should be, h'lm we've got on this council now, 3 tall people and 2 short. We could dccid~ that down th~ fond. To rm we've got to get the bell rolling. We've got to get thc bah roiling, and I wouldn't have rn~d~ ~ comments if I didn't think Brian l~trd a lot about it befcn'c or if Tom hasn't hc~mt a l~t before. And I don't ~inic that's going to change because we have re-stored for 6 months son~ things that To what degree I don't know but the~ is with home. land d~-f~nsc issues, and son~ of the othn' is n reason why we have to nlmr what w~'ve done, then we're nil big boys. We can comidcr change. I~t this is too i .mpommt, and I don't want it to be politic~ We have got to get it off thc Mayor Furlong: Alrj~ht; any other discussion? Cotmci~ Lundquist: Councilman AyoRe.. I also am in strceg support of public safety. My concern right now though is, ff we estnbli~h a _commission without a c. hm~, that it becomes difficult f~ that group to function withom, direction. I would be in favor of p_nttlng together a, whatever. A focus group or wtuRever you want to call it to try to establish a charter u quickly u possible ami then address that. I understa~ your concerns with it and all that's going on a~l the unfounded mandates which are concerns of mine as well But to e, stablish a body tonight without a charter that gives them a mission, a responsibilitT, and to allow staff to give thc proper floundering and trying to focus on the importa~ issues at hand, I think it's a little premnmre to, established and that let's m-visit thnt issue but right now to establish that cnmmisgion without any direction I think doesn't do that commission justice. Councilman Ayotm: I would accept a friendly ameadmem to diminish the role of the 7 person body to de-~Ung with homeland defense, and determining whetter or not the local ordimmces that a.r=in~withoutsk~agcadc~,ou~icl=~f~ Thatcouldl~achgrt~. Andit would not necesskam significant staff involvemeat. Then it gives us a benchlTutrk by which we experience rather than waifin~ a loeger p~ic~ of time, we can do so. But to sh(xlrn the time line because we cannot crystallize the definiiion in ~y's mind with a 5 pulai, cons~ns~ I think is a mistake. Somy motion stands. Iwouldacc~afriendlyameadm~to' .mExoveymtr conffort level, because I think it's i .mpm~R to pass. I have a motion on the table.. I nm willlnE to 21 City Council Meeting- hnuary 13. 20O3 a~pt a friendly sm~drmnt, but I really believe we have to ~ this off the dime, And I wished it would not take a political slmw. Mayor Fudong: I guess son~ thoughts I have. It was m~atiaaed earli~' tonight about the mmsitiomtl meethag that we had la,st Tuesday. The 5 of us along with the 2 ~ cottncil possible ~c initiative. The plan was. and I believe is it an our work sessiaa far the ~ of this month, to m-visit those and begin the pric~izing lX-~cess? Todd Geritol: Yep. Mayor Furlong:. Which would be al the next fime thal we r~mlarly meet. I think ffmn taking it in stride, I don't think you'll find ~mybody up he~ that's snti-public safety ~r doesn't see that as impartant_ I think the~... Councilman Ayotie: Although I ~ a ~ th~.. Mayor Furlong: Excuse me one moment please. Councilman Ayotte: You might g~t an anti motio~ thongh_ I thi~k t~t's what's com~g but that's alright. Mayor Furlong: Well to my, as Fw looked at it berm'e, I th~k them are going to be some ~ties w~ the shedff's departm~t and t~ ~ amlysis thai ~'m ~n~ ~ I gr~ w 1~ al w~ ~'m ~ ~ ~ we'~ ~ it- And so Fd li~ to see us deal with Councilrm~ Ayotl~: I-Im~'s my, Mr. Mayor whal I'd h'ke to c~ ~ ~, if we do not have a bom~fide commission. Not a task fume. Not a halfway r~m:~mmion offs city. A safety t. be same lewl of i .mlx~mnce as we do phuming and environmental and pafl~ and think a task force or a series of task forces is the a~sw~r. So when we have those discusai~, ~ if my nx~tio~ Ls not approved t~night, axu:l when the fedm~ ageacies do come to us aud wh~ we have to deal with the namdated legislation that comes down and whea we dan't have a bonafide public saf~ commlasion, I want to nm~a this point now that I think it's going to be a mista~ The good news about 5 councils is we can argue t~ points out aud if we go to a 4 to l nnd no ~ approves the ? person commission, if I don't get the other 2 votes, that's what thia is all about We all were voted in so l'm no~ ~iU8 to have hearflxun from thai standpoi~ but Ido want to make it public that I believe, this councilman bel/eves thai we'l~ going to put the city al risk if we don't have a bonafide commission because we won't {~t the sane ,,th, ration as other cities will. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Is timre any other discus~on? Councilman karma: I don't disagr~ with Mr. Ayotm's points but I also think myl~ if we wait until next, the 27~, and mamgically look al thln~ we want to gather. Public safety will be on the top, number one priority and maybe the 2 weeks will give us tim~- to, far all 5 of us m 1~ al it ~ the big 30,000 foot view, and to come l~ck at the 27~ meeting and put this thing in place. ' Councilman Ayotie: I have a motion on time table. City Council Meeting - January 13, 2003 Mayor Purlong: Moving on to itmn 7. Newspapers. Councilman Ayotte. Councilman Ayotte: The oaly point I wanmd to rr~k,-- bern is that, and the ga~zman tl~ spoke up, the only thing that I took exception to, not nec~sarJly with respect to the Villager but thc~'s somethingcalledtbeFust~ Tbe~'s5...thel~rst~ This is not a civics class. This is in fact the way it is. Two of them ~re f~edom of speech and freed~m of the pr~s. And for a council, this cou~ilman does no~ ~ with the hiea that we slxmld ~ a puni~ve tlmlt~yd~ And ljust want to make tl~ poi~. Id~n'tfl~it's~foracouncilto h~e Oes~alx~ So I just wanted to make my l~scaal poim ~ o~ that and I thigh it was v~ry no~ favor what's prlm~_ And again, thank you for no~ prir~ my name the la~ 3 ~r 4 times Councilman ~: Not to be ~ve Bob, but d__ne~n't that directly talk to your freedom of speech issue. Thai I:~ had lile fi-~xiom to do thst, CouncilumnAyott~: Ohno, that' s fine.. Andlbavemyfmedomof _spee~__k I'm just rea~3~ to it. Mayor Furlong:. Any other comn'~vrs or discussions on this issue? Seeing none, and since there's no motion we'll move on. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS, week, is the way I understand it. And it was cut shc~t so you could lmep cutting it and it's not going to help us. Todd C_~rlmrd~ Still too short but, they're awar~ of that and it's beta well documented so we did not delay that section of the construction. That's it on the h*brary. City ~ ~ - ~anu~'y 13. 2003 Mayor Furlong:. Okay. Todd Gedmrdt: That's all I have. Mayor Furlong: Any questions at thi~ time for administmfi~? CORRESI~NDENCE DISCUSSION. Coun~ilm~ Pe~etm~ The ouly point that I tlx~!ht was ~ng ~ ~ ~H~ You l~k ~ w~~m~~~~~m~ f~ ~ f~y w~ch ~ ~ 1~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~, ~ ~'s c~y a~ ~ ~ ~'s ~ ~~~ W ~y ~ ~ Todd ~ Yeah, the ~ switched ~ And also available imxtua that we have in town too. Not processing a lot of ~in~le f~mily subdivisions in the last couple years also could play a f-ac~ in that. Kale~ I differ a little bit on that. Ithinkit'sapfi~point --f-a~but. Eve~rthing~'ve got in the single family, put that average price point in ther~ 344 without a lot Tbe~'sabig price point spread between a townhouse m~d a single family home. I think that's some of the Mayor Purlong: Any other discussio~ or comments here on the c~mmrpot~iaace? If there's none, is them a motion to adjourn? Submitted by Todd Gerhardt Prepared by Nsnn Opl~rn CHANHA,~EN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REG~ ~G DECEMBER I0, 2002 bfl~'MBERS PRE,SENT: Rod Franks, Amy O'Shea, Paula Atidm, Glenn Stolar, Tom Kelly, and Jack Spizal¢ Kara Wici~nhauser, Senior Ceater Ccord~. PUBLIC ANNOYS: None. VISITOR ~ATIONS: None. TOBACCO FI~EE POLICY FOR OUTDOOR SETTINGS. Ruegemer:. Many of the cities and school districts around the shoe have talo~ a look at d~wloping such a polio, ~ fir~ poli~ies. We r~:~v~ X~lUeStS periodically ~ ~ internally w~'ve bc~n discussing this policy or ~ a policy for qui~ some time now. use~. We did, I did incl,_ ~le some other policies imm ~ citie~ to kind of give som~ knowledg~ formul~, and maybe have an ala cm'te, kind of a system for us to take a look ai in developing this mainly. Beaches, a Io~ of those types of areas wher~ we're going to have kind of a mixed use of include a sample policy ~ I kind of pul together and it kind of ~ some key poin~ to distress tonighI or sdd or dele~ Staff is certainly open to flint _tonight and that's why we our park sysmm, and I think the time is now to take a look at that seriously and o~b,. some Franks: Thanks Jerry. Well let's open it up fro' queslic~s then. Ami since the~'s just us today, le~'s we can maybe just shoot our queslicm out u they come and r~x~ct each othea"s chance to field some questions. Jerry to field some question so, any cu ...... i~sioners have que~ons? Jezry, ar~ you ready? I promised Jerry we'd be nice to Mm to~ They never ~ to me anyway but I thought I would throw that om. Afldn~: lerry, oh I'm sony. Would it be public safety e~forclnE it? ~ Weft it's, there's a couple ways that you can go about ~ issue. So~e of the citie~ as you see., it really ~ on how far we want to g~ with enforcemem. Some haw adopt~ or passed, kind of the bite of it is, if you get caught vi~ it could be a misdemeanor ~ $2~ fine. I guess my sn~le on it was mo~ education ~t this poht versus having a set fine. Youknow I really fotmd that hard to enfowe. Axe we going to send out ~ C,?d) or are Todd and I goi_ 'n~ to be dqmtiz~ to wrim out not, they don't rise m the level of our contract with Carver County so you need m recognize when they put these, ff you lint these into fore., it's goin~ to be up to us to do self enforcemem. where we have a lot of youth a~ivities _goin~ om Skat~ pm~ We certainly couki, the playgrounds am certainly part of that. So wheth~ we, maybe it's as ~imple as positing a sign of Kelly:. Iwasjmtcurious. I didn't know. Stohm With regards to siLgrug given tl~ question about how many do you think we're going to have to pat out the~? Ruegemer: I figur~l rough numbers around 30. 30-35 I'm gue~ng. Hoffman: If you inclu~ pla~ it would go higher, h'd be another 20. If you included every playgroond set of apparatus. Ruegem~. Whea figudng thi~ number I ~ ~ of ~ ax~ towards the active comamaity locations. Kind of th~ infatuation that, that waa kind of barfing tt~ $15 gri~ ~ w~ if yon look in your packet, back at the sign for UFA. I did contact the UPA and those were appro~rrmt~Jy 14 and some chang~ with ah'.mping axu:! f~ and so~ of tho~ ~ with tax so, tho~e wm'e irlnd of the signs that I kind of based my numbea's Pranks: I have a few. You meutioned that. J~rry that staff feels the time is now. What n~k,.-s the time now to do this? 2 Pranks: Like what is a few? Ruege~ A few? Probably less than $. l~rsnks: In the past. Ruegemec. Oh couple yea~ probably for tha~. Fmjust thinking now is a, as kids a~e kind of put in situations where they're you know, left m~ _tw~,~ so to speak, I think there's a lot of situations ouI there they can get at., basically whaI Fm try~ to do is provide ~ podtive environments and really kind of look at the whole positive role model angle on rl~s. There's a 1o~ of, if you look at youth sports, there's a lot of positive mst can come out of tim and this is.just an smoking. Ruegeme~. Well not necessarily at the ska~ park alane, but there certainly is that activity at a Pranks: That's already ags~ in~t the law. Hoffman: No. Not if yo~'re 18 or older. Franks: Well okay, ri~oht_ But th~'s what I nmm, adults. Hoffman: Primarily it would be young adul~ snd flza the~ are a number of under aged kids that like that? Ruegem~. We had discussed ti~ a little bi~ on the staff level and you know, enfcrceme~ Hoffman: I~'s not going to be very popular. Ruegemer:. Yeah. Park and Rec Commission - Deceanber 10, 2002 Hoffman: No smoking at the 4~ of July ututer the beer teal Ruegeme~, I guesa tlmt wasn't, that was kind of mar~ going more towards the park angle on this. Atkins: Well if the signs are post~l more near the parks and not whe~ the activity is taking place on the 4" of July, people will assume that's an open zone probably. Not that it's good. I'm sure it ~ pretty smoky in there. In the Umt but. Stolar: Well this r~xmm~e~Atlon, it is specific though it's whea youth activities ax~ going on. lxogre~? Franks: With the exceptic~ of the s~ park being in all the time? R~ Yeah, I think that was -rl~esimd in that, in the policy. Certainly you'd want to Stolar:. The way it's writt~, it might need some clarificati~m f-ct playground to the sk~;~- park f-ct that's your int~ation, that's son~ of the question. ban when the~'s an c~ganized a~ivity at the beach? Rue~m~. You know again this is kind of a policy that was put ~ f-c~ your r~iew. We Franks: Well wha~ do you think? Ruegemec Well enforcement may be an issue down at the beach- Franks: No, but do you think that that' s a good, I'm inlerested in what you th~k- Doyou~hink it's a good ia~e~_ to have the ban extm~ to th~ beach c~ Ruegemec. Me personally, ye~. I'm not a big persco in fsvor of smokin& I wish it would be banned ~11 across the nation but, I won't let my perscm~ biases to g~ in the way. Frank~: Olmy. Any oth~rq~? Stolac. In summarizing this cownm~on, I don't know if now's the splm~'iate time but my playgrounds, and at the skate park we would just want to ban smoking, and afl~letic fields, and I whe~l yolRh 8~'tiviti~ are occ~lg. That wo~lld be ~e~hln~ thst I WOR~ ~e in favor of. b~ I don't know if I'd pose it as a frim~y amemtment. Franks: Well let's just move tl~ right into the comments phase and you just ~ right off. 4 adopted by the City Council, but it's not something that v~'re going to expend a whole lot of effort to enforce, so I think going that way to make the beach clcengr is a good thing. To make the phyground areas better so I'd like to propose that u a friendly ameadmen~ to this approach, and I gue~ we have to hrlni t~x to the table ~ So I can't-put-a friendly amendment to my own motio~ Franks: We don't have a motion. Let's just Fmlsh the comu~nts. /3o around ami then maybe that will help us defi~ it up. Sto . ohy. woods if they have t~ I think you'll have a problem with young adults on the beach in the eve~in~, because they hang out the~ ^drlnn: Right I think it's a ~ idea. Franks: Right. Tom. Kelly: Ithinkit'sagreatidea. The only question I have is going to the next item ageada which is the fee. s for renting the parks. Wouki that mean, would yon be in favor rhea of smoke-free picnic areas? I'm just trying to, if we're going, what C:genn had said in t~zms of, stat yon said Stolac. I said playgrotmds. Kelly: Phygromxis. Stolar. Yea. Kelly: Then ~ ~ l-~ire Ann and La~ Susan both qualify as a beach and a ne/~ as a playground. I wonder would you want to apply the ban to the pk'nk a~eas so gwut~s that signed up to have ii picnic Wo~lld know thst the~'s no ~ at that ~ a~d is thai a ~,~on thst you'd want the policy to go or not. Ruegeme~': I would not want that policy to go thai ~ Stolan. And I think we would IX, ohably ~ to specifically excbut~- thai. If we don't want it Kelly: Alfight. Ijustwaniedtobl'ingthatup. I don't want to make it too general and thea have something like that all of a sudden fall under tbe guidelin~ That's iL certain things and leaving c~rmln areas out, it gets even nx~re confusing I think to mmitor, so if w~ could, would it be too vague to just go, you know wbnmver youth a~tivity is going on or youth involvem~t, and that way liim for ~m~. le the 4'~ of ~uly whm it's d~k'~ it's ~ those are rr~inly 18 and older. Somallyatthe4~'ofSutyitwoaldn'ta/i~e~tth~yonth- But in the day when they'r~ doing more youth activit~ with the gamin. We, il then it should apply that the~ ~mlda't say, you know ~ there's youth acdvities involved, taxi thru I d~ think t~o w~ shoukt e. xcludetl~privat~~inthisaawell. So that would be my commmt. Torr~b~-ita~ simple as w~ could instead of naming specifi~ you know and then in the, ~ you write ut~ you could give e. xample, s of ligts that R be soeo~ games, slr~te pm'k, but I'd say th~ aimpl~ you can write it, the ea~ie~ it would be to ~ whm you have t~ Bm it's ~ l~inciple/value ~t I think. Franks: Well I'm going t~ ~ a Jay ami, which thla is not going t~ seem film me., th~ I' m going to mak~ b~ I do not think thin is a good ide. a. I d~n't th~ it's a necessary ~ f~ o~ thing. I think we~ I'm no~ personally a smoker eith~ ~d it kind of tings me a little bit mo, trot you know my kids am out at spo~ng events and we're down at tl~ bew. h and although maybe I've be~ nuisanced very, very ~n~qmmfly, I haven't z~mlly seen it as t~o much of a lm~blem and so wl~n I'm applying kind of my own cost be~efiI analysis and although I would certainly talk to anyone about how it's no~ a healthy habit to ~ in, you know I'm ~mdering is cos~hes who aren't going to coach and gramlparents who aren't going to show up and pamnm who aren't going to t~l~ their kids to the beach or people who. I mmn ~ of ~hst- And people who smok~ a~ paying taxes too and I know we have Hrrdtalion~ on lots of behaviors that w~ have. We could limit behavior, th~'s l~'fectly Fmc, but ~ that we've gotten 5 calls, and I expected it. That's what I ~ I jus~ s~i~! the question to con,u,,, what I had e. xpected. That you've and ret'marion and tlmmgh that we pmmo~ health, but I don't know if as a governme~ ag~cy using their park and recreation. About ss fl~r as I could g~ in attempting to rationalize it and justify a position here was a safe~ issue in ~ a des~?~t~ play ~ a~a wlm~ tbs last thing I'd warn while kids s_m rmming around is someone's big, long cigam~ s~h hanging out that they'll mn into and get burned on or somed~ like that so that might be something tlmt I could see, b~ if that v~re ~.ally lmppe~d~ and a problem Jerry, I'd bet you'd be g~g csll~. And 6 me thinks the tick off factor to a lot of people is going to be greaI~r ~ tl~ bezefit we're going to get from son~hing we can't exfforce and thai maybe people azen't really idmfifTing aa a big we'll have to deal with this, tmI I'd ~ see a thing where we e~oura~ tie spo~ to begin ~o monitor their n~x~rs uses on our ~ ins~ad of us dictath~ in a s~nse that ki~l of soc~ behavior. So I'm sounding h'~ a libertarian ~ I guess, b~ le~s g~vernm~nt Stolar: Can I ask a question? Beside fram the complaints, ale the:re a lot of cigarette ~ clean- up issue, s? Omgoty: Down at ti~e beach them' s a lot. Thcrc'salotofthcmdown~ The ballfields up tm the softball fields and that, there's ~ a ~ ~ ~ ~h ~ really.the worst that I see~ Fraaks: But with that occu~ it's also when there's adutts. Stolar:. Right, which we wouldn't ~ ~ What about in the ska~ park~ Weretheae5 c.,,~ all reht~ to the slme pm'k oF were ~ slxead actor? Ruegeme~. Not oecessarily the skate park. Imeanit'sjustnmreoveralltypeofthin~. W¢'vegot things at the, some of the special events, some of those type of things so, it's not ~ly Franks: The thing that also, I agree with it and I bristle that I agr~ with it, but it's the whole thing aborn the role model issue. Where I'm trying to separate my feelings ~ my ~cms. My emotions from my cognitions. And part of you know, one of my kid's best soccer coaches lit up. And so you think, you know that always kind of bugged rte- a little bit but yet when I talk with me personally thinking how it adversely affected me to see or that I had negative imagoes of som~ of the_-se people in my life as adult sports figures who smoked as having a real negative Ho~: That's why it hasn't bugg~ you today. Franks: It doesn't bug me today. Hoff. man: That's why. Nranks: But I'm one of the first people that's ~ when we went on a cruise, I picked thc no smoking ship so that's why, I know you're laughing and I was happy, happy, h~.npy. 7 Park and Rec Co ..... ~inu- December 10, 2002 skal~ park's a real ism~e because we have tons of kids/n close proximity ~nd I would just s~ soon be able to walk over the~ stat ~ll shy pemm ncr w stop in the ska~ park. going all over the place, you imow people are mm'e compact~ in, I thinir we can d~ that. Ifwe want to say tim amoking at the be~.h i, creating a cost bec__~-*e of ~ ~ma a hassle, *nd a nuisance to people ~empting to use the beach which is a defined, confined space, I think w~ could justify timI as well. I could ev~ go so far as saying in ~ play stmCtUl~, i~slde ~ play me. But l nm in~o the same ~ We' m gdug to let sdul~s smoke at adult scfivitie~ and like yo~ bring up, but is that our ~ Hoffman: Tl~'s for you to decide. Franks: Yes, and I woald say that it is hoc Kelly: How we~ these L,~e__-ived at Roseville and Ruege~ You know I didn't ask that specific questiou of the individual dtie~. So I couldn't comment on that Imeanmmtarerehfivelynew, pwbably within the hzt couple years. Just kind of the momearum of this hsue cer~i~ly has gained in the Izzt couple years. Hoffmam It was obvio~ly a hot topic in Hd~n Prdde that mint of you Fm su~ followed. of~:tfingthee~smple. Youknowlwo~d~ygothe~~d~ofRed. I'd just ban it from the parks ~y. Tt~'s bow I would do it became I tl~nk it is a nuisance to t~ people who don't smoke ami they dan't Eet a choice, fight if someone lights up. And R's also a safety ami clean-up issue, bu~ I would understsnd with Rod's stamm~ that maybe we focus in/fi'"'"'"'"'"~ly on expand. Again we aren't ~li~ng a lot of money so we pay $15 a sign now, we pay $16 in two years if we expand it. It'snotgoingtolnn'tus. Bu~Idothln~thosemms, my key focus is what Rod said. The playgrmmds, the sio~. park and the beach. Those are the key me. as I'm most but we go with our policy. I don't know if thst wives part of your dileuaua Rod about the Park and Rec Commission - December 10, 2002 Franks: No. Pmsaying, Iwishlcouldrr~im-thatadilemmab~Ican't _beo__use we're not talking about that much money. I mean $750 t~ go full bom with it is, thafsnot~nism~e. It'd be nice to Holl'man: There's also a choice in the fact that if you make it policy or in Bloomington it's enacted as an ordinance by the City Council So you can include that in your ~on. At what level do you want this in your policy. Franks: Well I'd like to even see things hqm L a tobacco use policy for outdocr ~ ~ tobacco free just strL~-s_ me as being so subjectively value laden that I dea't know if that's our business. Because we're talking about mstd~i.g the use of tobacco for jusiifiable re. asom. Protecting the safety of children, just like we ~ playgrounds to be safe and you know in lin'ks, if you doomed it, you'd have the no smoking policy. So to me just because you remove a roof shouldn't elirninnt~, what we feel the value or princ/ple s~'~r~t fc~ the city. So thst's why. Franks: But where I would go with that is, I'm agreeing to do it in closed, ouIdoor st~,~nt~ Skate park, playgrmmd, a beach Those are defmabl~ and you could say enclozed area. A beach is as big as it is, you know, and playgrotmd is defined and enclosed. The s~ park is fenced in. Just like a ~ has four wslls on it. O~hea: Okay. Oh, so you' re for all those areas. Franks: I' m saying l could go aloug with that. I would tmff-er not to have thls. My~ would be this is not, i~' s not necessary at all atthistxfmt. SoOlenn, malmastabatamotion. Oh, the other thing that Fm thinking too is, I would like to see this, if we do agree to do a lxflicy ~ m should be direc~ to r~im clmages and forward to the CRy Council. rd like us as a come--ion forwmding ~ ~ of c~ing this policy and here's the guidelizea. R's that we actually, am you following me on that? Absolutely. We'll make, we'll adapt it up fer your January mee~ng. Pranks: Yeah, great. Aldght Gleam. Stolar:. I make a motion that the Parks and Recreation Crmm~ssion direct staff to draft a tnbacco policy outlining the proh~ of tobacco ullage at the beaah~, playground areas and skate park Nranks: Alright. Anything ehe? Is there a secand? Ranks: Okay, is the~ a ~ to the motion? O'Shea: I seco~L Park and Rec Commi~on- Deee~ I0, 2002 Franks: Okay, it's been moved and seconded. Is the~ any discussion on the motion? TI~ Hoffman: And no reference to aflxletic 'field~7 Stolax: At this point no. I i~erve the right /n l~nuary to change my ~. Pranka: Well I think where we're going to be hea&~ Todd iz that we'll enact a polio, hopefully the City Cotm~ ~ ~ ~~t ~ ~e ~U~. And then at any point in the f-urine we can amend the policy to fit the changing needs of the _corm~mity or culture. 2003 PICNIC RESERVATION close som~ gaps on sorr~ things and research past picnic users, which was all done. Basically what I did is kind of take a look at the., I think Commissioner O'Shea had tslk,-a abouI the, thai the ~ w~mn't proportional in looking aL We did tnire a look at all those rates from location and classification of that and tak~ a look at those and adjust those so they are pmpcrti~, with each other across the board. Hopefully that looks dray t~ the commission. I also had comacted and obtained infci'malion from, I just used three, kind of our neighbodng areas thst provide picnk talk to people, really my findings were that people that have paid kind of th~ obviously the lower fees could absorb a little bit higber percentage of a ra/e incma~ if needed, ffneedbe,. Andalso 250-280 range people, things I think will be a Htfle bit tougher for them to absorb. I think a little bit would be alright but oue eveu said that Lake Arm's a good value ~ we dou't have a parking fee of course so. Ruegemer: Right. Tbat'sccrmct. And ~, in talking W ti~ people who have beea out here fcr a number of years, I think a gmnll ratr incma~ probably would be fine. I mean they certainly were nice arreaities with, I think we can get, we certainly have a lot to offer at om'picnic locations. So what I also did is, you know taking a loak at, and lalking to people, I think a 10 percent ~ certainly could be ab~rbcd, be, okay with any of ~ organizations in ~ that I did ~ to. We did, I did take a look at creating kind of a tier system and basically I defined ti~ w~_.krlsy lO rates as Monday thn~ Thursday, starling with ~ rai~s on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, as consistent with Three Rivers and other m~as as well Taking a look at the tables listed below is the current kind of adj~.~ rates proporti~y. The Monday through Thursday. That was the Friday and Saturday on the ri~oht hand side of the co1~ was the mflecti~ of the 10 percent and the Lakeside and Parkview areas at Lake Ann Park. Now with that I will certainly field questions if the council has que~iom o~ commeats. Pranks: Any quick que~ for Jerry? Jemry, good job. · Pranka: I don't have any questiom but l think thlg now like to me mala~ seme. Itlooksgood. You know when you actually see 10 peacent from a dollar amoum on ~ of this stuff, it deean't look like a whole lot but the philosophy i~ there and it gives us something that i~ much nx~m logical to work with in the future, ami it se~ the stag~ for how we're going to appruach this now and I think that works really good. It was great ~hst you acm,Oly, and I'm su~ those werun't easy phone calls to make, butm call up some of the pazt uzers and kind of feel out where they're at and that's just great to also give us that idnd of ~on and it reads to ~ whe~ we we~ O'Shea: I think it's good. R does help t~ make sense of it, solthinlritlooksgtxxL Kelly: I think it loob greBt. Atkin~: Iwas~ifyouthinkth~'salargrenonghincrease. Or ff if s golng to have to be raised again next ~. The year afu~ Ruegerner: Kind of what my philosophy on raising fees has been, in the past, is that we look at, if we do recommend a rate increase, to hold that fee ~ a couple-three years and then re~adress it at that point. I personally have not been in fi~vor of 10 percenting it every year with that, so knowing that in mind I'd like to kind of establish that fee and maintain it, whether it's softb~ fees or basketball fees. Picnicfee~. I like to kind of maintain that so people don' t feel like they're getting nickel and dime every time they sign up for something~ But if you re~mnbcr, I didn't recommend an increase in November so I think 10 pe~x:em is plenty, bat that certainly i, a~ Franks: Were you thinking going, when you look si those dollsr amounts, it doesn't ~ like a whole loc Atldr~: No. It looks affordable for me, and it very well could affect me and l would be perfectly happy with the~ ~. I just know that for instance ~ ~ ~ we rahe fic~ l~'ic~ every couple of years and we'd rafl~ do it in, not do it Frm~s: I'm sorry, rather. 11 Piu*k al~ R~c C(.,l,,-duion - ])~:gmb~ 10, 2002 Atkins: Raise it and leave it for a few years before w~ raise them again ~ than do it every year because people nolice that so, thi, looks great. Stola~. I apologiz~ fur not being in the discussion last meeting. This looks gmat. 1ust a couple ~. One would be, I noticed Three Rivers l~rk ~ they have a 20 percent differential thi~ new requgs~ rhst w~ seal this as a2003 ~ but Fm ~ if this {U'uup, again not being a couple years obvioualy. Oty Council can ah,rays over nde us but we can reconnneud this f-or Franks: Personally I don't know ff I w~mt to box myself in on that, conddefi~ that we're smrt/ng the tiered approach for our very fn'st ye, re'. Fd really liim m see how it goes and what the respom~ is, and if that's something we want to look at for in the futm~ Fm sure that, cr Jori'y, if tlmt's we're getting o~ residents, that s~t of thin_.=. Prmdcs: It might be helpful The oth~ thinE that i'd ~ to amir to do is ff there's some way m track thc volume of requc~s, and if we can dctermin~ wheth~ we have hi~ volume weekends. How many people wc might I~ l~TtinE away, or who's l~lUeSt you c~n't fulfill that would be willing to sign up. If there's just some way when the calls come in th~ you could log thos~ ,ma Weknow whartl~supplyis. Or as closc as wc can. I mean it will be m~Jdmal... Ruegerm~r: We can do antidotal Kelly: I'll make a motion W recommcmt to the City Coun~ to accept the 2003 group picnk: reservation fccs proposed by staff. Pranks: Okay, is the~ a stroll? Pranks: It's been moved and seccmded. Any disc~_~ioa? Seeing non~. 12 Park and Rec Commission - December 10, 2002 LIGHTING CEREMONY I~ORT. Ruegem~. Okay. Thanks~. The verbal w~mt to wrfa~ today so l passed om that inform~ou to you as well tonigh~ We had 'a ~ nice night on Sa0.uday night for the tree lighting ceremony. Wedid, did you tl~n~ it was cold? The fire w~s nice. I was warm but l was running around too muck But we had, I~ ~ ~ ~ ~ w~h h ~ ~ ~ in popularly] and numbers wise sinc~ certainly r ye done iL 12-13 years ago when I fi~ s~ru:d tt but it was a nice eveat. Wehsd Ctmpel~~~cawhandSanta~,ivedontheae~Jal building certainly leads itself to a nice location for that event so they c~n pramote the that ws~ abo~t it_ I think O~ ho~ olx:e the ]i[~ry is comp~ is to kixld of I'E1OCalE th~n~ completed, that will have a permanent tree in ~ location. Nranks: Good. Anycomu~nts? No? Justone~ Iamjustwcud~Jngifthere'sanywaytostsr~ taking a look at the. se types of even~ as finding a way for them to be self~nE. And that may r~n some creativity and I don't know exac~ what you would do but things, this cost us $230 to put this one, and is there a way, same way for these types of events tobe self-suptx~n~. Whether that's through some kind of concession or whether, I mean I don't know exa~y what it would be, or some Santa raffle ahemi of time or whatever. But I'd like you for next year, and generally ~ng for some of these Nwgrmm to see what you can come up with. Hoffman: You could call it self ~ tmight l~l~ed off of om' ~ ~ l~ank~: Okay. Hoffman: We raised $10,000 in ca~ specifically fcr our special events Ixo~ma, Nranks: For this. Okay. Afldn~: What was the nxmey used for specific~y at the ~? Atkin~: Oh, I didn't see the bsck, sorry. 13 Park and Rec Co~ .... :ssion - December 10, 2.002 Franks: Ami some, I know that some of ttm~ programs there's like no way they can be self supporting. I me. an just absoln~Jy not but som~ of them maybe, and thea we'd have mc~e Hoffman: Brought to you by. Franks: Brought to you by. I was ju~ going back to my Y experience and if you didn't'break even on a program, you probably didn't mn yonr progv~ the ae. xt year. At least that was my Atkius: Well I can't believe Santa charg~ 70. Franks: Bah, humbug. Atkins: He's a good Santa tho~ Stolar'. Quickly, do you have these laid out for 2003, nil the dh~Forent evemls. What rl~t~s going to occu~ Yeah. Stolar. Co~ld you next meeting. Rtmgenm':. I can run upstairs and ge~ it for yon now. Stolar: Well in January imybe just Ixing it as a report item showing the evems for 2003. Not that I would have attemied, because I hsd the flu Saturday but my wife had made plans f~ the same day bofom we got the date, or at least l~fm'e I knew about it. $o I mean get it on the Atkins: I do have oae more comment. Iwasthemamllthini~thathavingChnl~-lIT_Rlinvolved brought in I'd say mom than half of the people. I did not know anybody there e.xcept Todd smi the fimmen and you. And my fathor. And my family but otherwise I imew no one ami that's really unusual for me to go to a community ev~t ami not know anybody. So I think that that's whe~ all the people came from. And thafs a good thing. That' s a good thing, but and also, I wo~ld love to see it remain at that spot forever because that's the heart of old downtown and I think it's a great spot for it It was faro RE(RIEATION CENTER RRPORT. M_amk: Well l've come to report on the pe~nnial topic on the rec c~.aim so why don't we start ~ with tile child ~ pgo~Fnmming. ~ of yo~ who have served on the commi~fion for a and extxmses of $900. We're just not g~ting participation in that prognun with ~mongh childrm. It's always a balancing act for us to come out in the black. I dou't eapect thnt this will turn around. I think it will inc~ase January-February. Start falling off in March and be very low n?in in April and May. Right now because of the cycle that w~ print the newsle~rs at, they g~t March. Generally the school y~ar is a good tamlking point for this program because v~ do close 14 it down over the ~ummer l~cmth, nnyway, 80 nt this poilR I lun ~oi.~ fc~rwnrd with the thought that we will cancel entirely the child ca~ program in June of 20D3, with no ~tart-u~ ~heduled nt dl. And Fmjmt looking f~' your thought~ on that to~c. Franks: But how many people are going to be affecl~ by that? Marek: My guess is probably 20 to 25 faro/ties. That would choose to use the facility ~ tl~n no~ have it available. SWim': Do you see any, did you say it's closed down in the sumner. Do w~ have any unmet demand in the summ~ If idds are ou~ of school thea, or is it f-m lowe~ aged kids? Mamk: Our child care runs for childrea 6 weeks to 6 yeats in age~ ~ in the summer the demaml goes down because people are do~g otlmr s~civ~ies not interior to the mc cemea' and secondly ~ ~ o~ ~ ~ ~ m m ~lp ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ O~3he~ You know it concerns nz because I'm thinking bow can you grow the usage at the rec cen~r, in all areas. In classes and the fitness room and then actually the daycar~ or not the daycar~ the b~bydttln~ are~ or child care.. So I'm just thinking, it se~ms ~ it's m a, you know I'm l~.led why it hasn't you know, it's a tough one because I think ff you, how can you grow if you can't ~ that because that's a real good incemive for people to come and use the mc center. Thisis nothing new, but why artm't they? SoI'mthinidngifyoupromom, youknow Fm fo~ spending mom mo~ey to promote t~ mc cez~ use. But if you don't have babysitting. that really cuts down your tarl~ martmt that you'r~ going to be going af~. If you dou't have, you know frtym September ~ boy. _bec~ ~e thea you'l~ going to really nam~ it down to Hoffraan: Well currently we only have 20 cr 25 families that are using it so tl~t's a...market O'Shem But them I'm thinking, but you're not really want to be evtm in all the areas, fight? Wouldn't you want to haw more people in the fitness? Franks: Well it's about maxefl ouI. We're al a maximnm. Mare, k: The participation in the fitness room itself is amlf, it's self limiting. That is, you know we can sell as many punch cards as we waut but as the cwwds get bigg~ in them, then it ~ as it's own de/emmL ff people can't g~ on thdr ~ ~'re not golng W come ba~k so it, angry because they're not able to access the equipn~t that they want. Franks: Amy question is gt~d. Is it posmTble to gww in the current physical set--up? Thecardio vascular workout l~grammi~ at the mc center. 15 I)~ ~ R~ C~_ 'llllliR~iOl] -- ~ 10, 2002 Marek: Are you ref-ea'riag to the l-daess room? Franks: Yes, the fimess mo~ Mmre. k: Wc ~ sptl~ limitg~i. Franks: Spa~ limit~l and yo~'re pretty muc. h max~ out. Mamk: We're maxed, l~i~ht now the only program thoughia that we have with mgaxd to any ~¥[8.rP.3c ~ now otff l~orning Merck'- Yes. O'Shea: So going to the titans ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~y 9:30 ~ ~ ~? How many people would be in them? O'Shea: Yeah, in the cardio vascular. Mamlc Oh 10 to, 6omewhere ~ 10 ~m~! 20 in that room. O'Shea: So you could have up to 20 people~ ~ It's tight. O"8be4c And you feel you're ~t 20 people? O'Shea: Okay but you're not, I'm jugt thinking when T c. oo]e theze to work out there'6 room for lo~ of people to fit in them bec, au~ wh~t I've ~ee~ in two ye4~, to me, let me ~Rlr ~. Three yea~ ago,' four, you had me~ uAage, c~ect? Mareic In the child care room? 16 O'Shea: Well we'll start with the, well child ~ but I was thinking right now specific~y the cardio vucular room. Or fituess room. O'Shea: Okay, and is thsr a decrease fi'om inifi~? Ma~k: liisnc~adecrcase, hisflat. Sowe'vcbe~nincrcasi~~sinceweopened, and leveled off the last two years at about $78,000 Todd? O'She~ And that's not due to price increase ~ ~ ~ ~n~? O'Shea: Okay, because l thought the la~t time, I~ Iflxmght~~~~ growth st the mc cem~, brU now I'm hearing tt~m isn't room fcr grow~ Isamtcarm~ Ncr Marek: I think that your ~ is a litfle generaL We havc to taIk about in whai, whatareyou referring to when you saygrowth. In what arca? Do wc have growth in tmms ofln'ogrmnmingin gymnasium? Yes. Do we have growth in packing more people into the fimess room? You know only between thc hours of h00 and 3:00 pan. The datum and aerobics studio is booked generally all day except between noon and 3:00. So it depends on where you're Moki~ at in O'Shea: I guess I wa~ l~lafing ~ w~ ~ ~ ~w ~ ~ m ~ m I don't know if you have to use the fitness room as well ~s where you hold the class~ so I w~s looking at those two. See how it can bc m~rc self sufficieaI, thst's paying for itself is whaL And if you're saying that, then it gets back to, if those rooms s~e at max. thru you'd be bet~' off to turn the babysiulng room into another cardio vasculsr ama. The last time I heard that wasn't the ca~e because. Hoffman: We want to keep it for a meeti~ room O'Shea: Okay. Bu~ see L okay. I tho%~t yom' numbers were dropping sc~rmwhst with the participstion in those two rooms. Mamk: In our aerobic class Imrticit~on in thc evenings Imrticulzrly has doclimd. Usc in thc aerobic~ studio overall has been inc~ing. was a ~ape change at this point in tl~ discussion.) 17 lVlamlc Thst's quit~ possible. We have a lot of the same people that are still using the facility. Their children have just gutUm older. O'Sbea: But tl~ chang~ your target mm'kec Okay. ~lar:. Pulteastlthiaktha'sthebigone, right? That we vi si~t bfarek: ltb{nk~hutpoteutial{~alwaysthere. Keep in mind that our ~ifis~ murket for th4u program is a sumll slice of the whole potmlati~ to begln~' with because wu're looking at the stay at home parumt v/no chooses to come to the r~c ceuIm' and do one of two thin~. Go to a clm~ that ll:OOa.m.. That's atnuttynarrow~dudowwheuyoulookatthe~popul~tiou. Itrually you know takes our ma~ and makes it a very ,muff{ market Franks: Five years ago l said we'd be meefing oue day to emmd the daycam progrsm For four years you lmve proved me terribly wrong, and I got to the point when I read this repo~ I was truly sorry because I wanted to keep ,~,ting that crow fo~ as long as I could. Mamk: I did too and Todd knows that I've worked and worked at this for a few years. Pranks: I have to say, for the benefit of the rest of the commi~ioners up here that, I don't ~ well there's no one I know that could haw ketX this program framing fur as long as you did and to have tried to evemything ttmt could possibly tried from pronx~ou and ~,,ing within tl~ means that we can work, to creative sufflSng and every~i-~ so I mally want to at. laud Susan your effort in doiug that. And to stari with the ~egafive, when you have a whole pa~ here of it's usually best to start with the positl've~ and ~ roll into ~ less than positives bm I apprcc~... Franks: You know I know that the newsletm' sugge~ thai R is a service thaI's going to be available til March but I'm wond~hig if tim~ just isn't some way to end it shortly after the first using the service some reasom~ble notice tha~ ifs going to be eroding but. Kaflly: Ii's about $300 a month. Marek: Well certainly the people in lids room have the ability to lmll the plug on it whemever we decide to do that. My thoughI is ttmt, I would at least like us to cuaiiaue thxo%,h to the end of 18 Pm'kaud R~c Gc,--~siou-~ 10, 2002 March, fu~t of all m co~ .... tit to th~ staff p~r~oa in ther~ aud giv~ th~m ~on~ plnnnio~ time~ tho I~ thinE: w~h ~ a ~ i~ ~o ~c ~ w~'s ~ ~ ~ c~. ~: ~~h~~how~h ~ I thin~ ~'m ~ly 1~ ~ 5~. ~m~, We~~~~ly~~~le~~ ~ We~ Fm~m~ ~: ~ ~y~~~~lyn~ ~ ~s ~ ~ l~ 4,~ ~ S,~. ~~ ~ S~ ~ ~ ~ ~'s ~~ a~j~ ~ ~ng~ ~ F~: Re~ l~ ~a~w ~ ~~~~~ ~. ~: ~ I'm~m~f~ ~ I ~'t ~nk ~. Fm~ ~ng ~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~g ~ ~ of ~: O~y. I~ink~~m~. ~: S~R~~y~ ~ ~ ph~p~ ~ ~ 8 ~ ~m~~~ M~~~~m- ~3~. We'm~~of 19 Park and Rec ~mi~.~ion- I)ecemb~ 10, 2002 rental on that facility is abouI $2,400 to rent that for one ni~oht of ~earsal and one day of pedorlmnc~. So thaffs a huge expense for us but of course we do rrmka- that up in our ticket Mam~ And then going outo punch card sales, lust kind of a heads up hcr~ Decembczhour biggest month for punch card sales. We do nm a sale for the ~ month d December. People during this time of the year, and we have a because of iL Our customers really seem to think thst th~'s a mally big cleaL It'saguod, itgives Kelly: Can I ask a totally unreh,u~4 quesfiau? Kelly: Given that a mom might be opening up with child car~ hss the rec cent~ ever considm~ spinning as an o~tion? Is it too ~v~? Do you think it's on the way down in tm'ms of ql.lalified ~lzHnnin_q ~ Yes to all tho~e? Mamk: Of course. Definitely n~ decreasing in popularity. Still I thi, k increasing ami leveling off. I~'s always going to be a popular oi~ou out them because of the nou-{ .ml'act nature of it Certainly there's capital ex~ required. R is about :$750 per bicycle for sp{,ming and we simply haven't had that kind of capi{al available for those expendiIure~ Also there is a spsce constraint because we may m~! I0 to 12 bikes to hold a clss~, tm1 then we have to have somewhere to put them when the class isn't in session, so that's an issue. V~qth regani to the room being available, child cam only occupied it fcr 2 ½to 3 houl~ in the mcmuming and then tim room w~ used, is used for mee~%o~ the r~t of the day. Kelly: Okay. I was just curious because I know it's, I know it's polmlsr. I know they bad it st Bokoo Bikes. I don't know how popular it is at Bokoo Bik~ but I know you could dufiuilely charge a ~um over and above 2 punches to go to a spinning chss. Mamlc It's very popular at Bokoo Bikes, aud I've been to those classes sevcmal time~ myself. And I've tried a number of times to have them set flueJr bikes up out at the ~ ~ ~ a ~ or two and mn ~ classes out there but: havea't beea success~ in firm~g up thst ~ Franks: And I agree with Commiv, dom~ Kelly on this, and maybe anything else that you wa~ to con~ up wiflt That although there's no~hlng n__,~_-~arily wrong with capital expenditures. If we ~___-nt the plan that show that those expenditures sn~ going to provide a return on our investment, you know we will certainly tak~ a look si that and find smn~ ways to deal with HoH'man: No, that's fine but them again we could msim a reco~on ami just fill the eatire nx~ting mom with capital equipment ami r~ money. But is that our philosophy? Those four Pranks: But like a, you know some~hh~g like the ~ and you're taIking about a ~ to do them but Fw se~ it wlx~m ~ ~ moved in and li~y g~t moved out and they 8ut moved in for the classes and tht~ Hoffma~ No pl~ce m pu~ them... Franks: But as an example of some mom creative thiakin~ about a way to m~ximi~,e the multi- being creative in finding a way t~ eacignga in the program that you have, and it just shows again Ithink some mom lead~, pmgr~rmmtic leadm'ship that we am appr~ting~ Hoffu~an: Alright_ ~ R's a pretty big show. Franks: Alright, thsmkyou. Kara, amyo~mady7 SENIOR CENTI~ REPORT. Franks:TmH~? Wickenhn,.,,e~': Yes, so everyone really loved it. We could ~,,i~. up to 25 and we had 20 seaiors onit They toured the city, the ~ Chaska and F. Aen Prairie and hit a little bit of NAina so they just loved it, and for 2 bucks. What do you get for $2 for a 3 hour buz ride, so I think they extended the tour for an hour so, tl~ wer~ loving it. Our senior ceamr continues to offer exte~v{ tours. This summe~ we did a tour to Quebec amt MonuuaL We had 22 people for that cveot. We had 8 people who traveled to Lmlaud. Utx:omlng we have a tour to Hawaii in 21 February of ~, a~ to Italy November, 2003 so it will be exciting to see how those turn out. If anyone wants to go, g~aheadandrcgist~r. Tl~y all sotmdgmat. Wc also held our anmml holiday social this past Friday at the Recreation Cema. We had 72 seniors in atmstance. Entetminmmt was provided by the M'maetonka Go 4's, which is a ~ quartet. Ho~ d'oe. uvr~ ~ calm'ed by Miilie's Deli. Evm'ything was excellm~ The food and enmmimnent was probably one of our best. Some of the new progrsm* at the senior cemer is in the process of. orga.Riz~g or have or~ ni~ is our seaior safely ~ progra~ We hav~ a wood car~ please talin a chance to read titan. Our maim safeXy seainar...ba=k in tl~ e~l of October. We had47 seniors fxomthe~comnmaitythstattemted. Verywellleceiv~. ttwasajoint effort between the City of V'mu:ria ami the City of Clmnhasse~ Ttm~ was a lot of involveamxt with the Carver Cotmty law enforcement and both fire depaxtmeats from Victm'ia and Chanhassem Jusiawonderfulprogrsm. They want us all again to hogt it next year so w~ plan to host it with the City of Victmia again. The wood carving club, ~ have met with the library 16 blocks. Th~y'r~going to do 12x 12blocks ofbuttexnut and they'm going to, each ofthemam each block and then a little bit about the carvex thelmelves. Who caxv~ the hick. ks so that will be new. We hav~ 3 saxopho~.s, a ~,,,,:,et, a keyboard ami a clarinet playex but limy're still looking for a percussioaist, a ~ and a, what else is the other one? Pmx:ussion, tnmixme, ami what is the other o~? Icau'tevtmmmemlm'. Ifyo~ know ofany of those two iastruments, plm~let me know. And let's see, I do have a mee, aa~ s~t for next mm~th with Sn~n lespea's~ from we're hoping to, well I hope to have all the details set for this next comaecgon. The wimer Franks: Any questimm? Comu.~nts? Spizale: Looks like you're doing a gt~job. Franks: Looks really good. Ttmy don't need a tour dil~-t~ for that Hawaii Cmise do they? Just joking. Great. Well, seeing that the~'s nothin~ else, you're offthe hook now so, and we see that Mr. Orcgt~'s taking the hot seat. pARK AND Tt~IL MAINTENANC~ RiP. RT. Gregory: C-oodeveninE. Since l wrote my report ~nd that we' ve had a lilfle bit of a change in that We started out with a great whdr. r and that, it was one of the e~rlicr years for flooding and that We got started a week ago. We got 3 days in, ev~i_ 'nS flooding and that and since thcn iffs flooding again s~ We are back st getting a la~ stsr~ Gregt~: Wegotfros~im We g~t a gmat base and everything ,md tl~_ I mcan if we could have kept going like that we would have very ~mqy hsd rinks open by this weekemL h wouldn't have them ni~ ~ ~ ~ fl~ w ~'H ~ ~ it This year and that the guys, we weut out, we did an e.a~m~ve Rimming job on all of our trails. We found a lot of them that eeeded whl~m w~'vo got ~ anything. We ~ throl~ g~a'yOl~ Ired did all ~ tr~ ...... lng. We trimmed ~m~ m ~ ~ ~ ~ ~'t ~ m ~ k ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I mean ~ took them back to wlz~ we won't have to worry about m~ks and safety and eveqatfiag else and thai anymore so w~ can get ~ and plow them so we're in good shape for that. This fall we also, every fall we do an extra,ye fertilizing program on all of our sixes fields to try to seed. This year we took a real hit at Lake Aaa oa Fields 4 mxi $. That's whe~theybavetbe football fortbo, I believe tl~ youth is it Jerry? Outtbe~ Aad we took the real hit. ltwasawet tim~ of the year. They played and soit, we'vedoae alot ofexte~ve repairs out there m~l we're hoping that everything will come throt~gh okay in the spring. We haven't had them this bad coadition, b~ all we c~m do is see when it struts in the spri~ ami if we can maybe ~k ~ k ~ keep the softball players off unffi rlght up to ~ times on those two it would hetp ~y, so Jill Sinclair over at the city and that, w~ did an ~ve tr~ planting ami that. We had 5 city lin'ks that we planted 125 trees in, and it's going m be a big asset in that they're really some nice trees. We got a good variety of tme, s and so we're trying to break up just the maple snd ~h and everything in the ire'ks ~ we're trying to get a little bit of evea'ything and that so. That was a Franks: I noticed the a'imming right away on the trail around ~ Sns~ and it looks tho best I've ever seen it look. ~ They all look really good going ttnxmgh the woods and that now I mean, like I say we don't have the safety ~ anymore ~nd they needed it- They really needed it latmly bad. Franl~: And my kids wea'e mai di~ppoint~L ~ we~ mIking abo.ut getting out on the ice became it looimd to them ~ the ice wss _go?rig to be ready and I had to e.~plain to thea~ Ws going to be 45 detgre~ ~. They weren't too h~py. Oregory: Over the weeima~ it wa~~. North Loms and several of the par~ we had a lot of people shtin/o~ tlz w~rng and that, lint it. Park and Rec Commission - December 10, 2002 Ruegeme~. Was it li~t, medium or l~eavy? Franks: Wait, I didn't see anybody cu the schedule fur that weekem~ Oregu~: Wehaven'tstart~dth~tyets~ Butlii~Isay, w~... Fr~lk~: I h~ink that w~ Amy'8 weekend. Hoffman: They were skating ~ when I came... increasingly more to work on. Airight, thsn~you. Thatlook~li~that~minhesalltherepc~ts. ~)~ON MEMBER COMMYITEE REPO~ Franks: A~ the~ any o.,-,,;nnion member co ...... ;__,~-_ - ~*pom? ~ only comrrdt~ee we hav~ kn~in8 ri{{ht now is the ruveuue l~nern~in~ _c. omrrd,~_. Anytl~n~ to x~ the~? No? Okay. COI~__.~_ ON IVI~KR PIH~ATION8. None.. ADMINISTRATIV~ p&CKIUr. Franks: Any comments on the nd~v~ packet? No? Is thin, Todd is thin the first yem'. Hoffmau: Yes. Rue~m~. And they have intezust in x~uting agaiu iu 2003. I believe for spring for their, Ithink Ruegemec No, that was privy that, ri_~ht ~ school. 3:00 to ;5:00 timefraur~ which f~ the Franks: That's exceJleut. I'm woudering if the~'s, well tho~e types of, could be promoted somehow. I mean if, that rrdght not be the only org~ that rrmybe doesn't know thai thuy of time council and the city manager. I'll talk about that briefly wheu we go to the ~ And oue of the items thnt ~len'y and I talk~ about is com{ng up with a c-n~]og of the public facilities that w~ have available that could be x~uted. on the voltmteer rink at~ schedule. Rue~. I'm trying to keep it as even as lx~le. Franks: Aud my question is, uow I thought where T was first _r~ain~ it that v~ ar~ supposed to drive around and ~,,ke.. a look at all the rink,. Ruegem~. That's~ Dm-ingttmttin~ FYanka: Oh it is? Hoffumn: Six of them. Franks: Okay. But you want us m, when it's ~ our day I~ look at. Ruege~ To look at all six during tho~ times. course. Pranics: And do them all. Raceme. Right_ I was going to incl,,~, ba~ maps for you guys as well if you d~'t know Franks: And th~ am you going to copy om a whole ligt of these for us tc~o? R~ Yep. That waa just kind ofjust a copy of it ~o you could kind of t~. a look at it. Ruege~ That's coa'm~ O'Shea: Not low, medium. HolTman: People with skams or people with boots? Franks: ! think we should count bodies. doe. sn't matmr. 8o you'll send out enou~ forms so that will be 6 times the 3 that w~'re out so. Stolar:. I only have one and I need m trade that soifanyo~waats mtrade 2for 1, I'clbehappy to. Fll take 2 on the weei0~:ls trot I'v~ got I~ work that Monday, I)eceznb~ 30~ so I won't be able to do it. Stola~. I ouly have on~ day, Monday, ~ 30~ l:~t I work that day. p{~k~dP~k~C~ ...... ;,siou-D~.mtm'10,2002 Franks: WellFlltakcit. Fmoff~'yMomtay. Stolar:....e-mail to address this but I'll scad ouI an e-mail saying if someone wanIs to swsp out. The only weekeud I cau't do it is the 18a'and 19'~. Fm out oftown. Ruegen-~':. Would it be helpful for the commi~on to have base m~ps? Would you h]~ me W Rue~ Do you want me W rank flx~m {,, order fwm esst to west. n~ W ~? I can do that. l~ani~: You how v~'re jus~ volunIeers. We wouldn't figure that typically out ce our own. Thanks for including the cc, mm, miry center foctts group. Any cther ~ on the were two thai they did not like parlicul~ly were the idea of putting a $5 c~r charEe at ii~ Lake Ann fireworks so as you drive in you would pay $5 a car to park ,, ~ ~,~- A,m Park during the fireworks. Second ~ w~ a $10 per year n~"mbex~-p or geue~ fee for the senior ceuier. So that. The oues thai tb~ felt ~le with I beJieve are punch card increa~ which we feel will g~ne~a~ about $15,000 in additional mwmue~ A guue:ml across th~ board fee increa~ on all of o~ recre~ation program%, which when we FdnIed out the last was somewher~ in the 3 to 400's other areas, smallc~ items included in tho~. We had a list and I'll include that in your J'auu~-y l~Cket, a list of...appru,xh~u--ly year is $360,~ cummtly so that's going to push it up to a half a miUion dollars in ~ where you comu right down to it. So the~ is incruased recreation facilities, we're actually doing pretty ~ If you tak~ out park ~ if you want to start making money on park mainteuauce snd taking cam of the trails and ~ th~ we're going to have a ranch longur conversation.. ~ Ann Pa~k and char~ fur trail use and, priority making money or providi~ service? The ruoms n~,~- $16,000 or $18,000 a year and so w~ giw those rooms away all the time. You'v~ heard me say it before, and that's vitally full, like has ~ tslh~ about making one a dance studio. M,,king one an s~obics room, that takes it out of time guneral use areas of the public so. We also enHsmed an ~dditional $60,000 in that waz in the area of temporm'y wagea, mainIeaan~ ms ~u.~ials, and maintenance equipmeat. So that was $100,000 in total that we offered to the City Core.il. They felt fairly comfortable with speaxling Fund 410, the l:mrk and trail dedication fund fight now into the hundreds 'of dedication. The~ playground rep~ that we tslk,.a about with the playgroumts, that's Pranks: h it po~ible on the h'htmy ca) ..... ='ms, I xman (Yxty ~ Commons, or is it Liimu'y Commons? Hoffman: Time's a percentage dedicated, about $175,000. Anywhe~ fi'urn 125 to 175 of tbat money dedicated. Franks: And if they don't build the coif-ce shop, is there any way. Nranks: Prie~lss'ps~ Theffienflsspm:e. Is ttmre ways for those f~ to be wmsl.t~A in~o the City Center Commons project c~ are those h~ dedicaU~ to specific funds? Fnmks: There is. Hoffumn: There h more change mders on fi~-e... We don't know where that wfll. .. Pranks: But it is possible f~r some of these funds to be, they're not comply ~ledicated to building or to l~rk? Hoffmsn: No. Franks: Okay. Stola~. But then we could potentially, st least rrna- a proposal to Civff ~ to. I"Io~wsn: That's already in the plan. There's dollars coming over fram the hqmu'y refenmdmn to help fund this park. but they're limited fight now to about 125 to 175. Frunks: Okay. Park and Rec Co ..... :x~ioa - Decemlm- 10, 2002 F~ly: I just warn to say ti~ 101 North trail, evea ~ from tl~ 101 South trail. I like the way it kimt of winds up by the park ami thea it has a kiad of outlook area whe~ you get past Cho~w. I thought it vats really, really nice.. Hoffman: Take a nm? Kelly: A coup]e, yes. 5'pizalc: ...this one spot's not col:lncclva~ light? Hoffman: The~ was a prope~ owner dislm~ that they did aot wa~t m ~ aloag with how the project was being proposed to them. The ~on so that property w~ put under a quick X~lly: Andthat'sju~tatth~v~a'yc~ci, ri~ht? That's o~fl~waytoP~e~m~mtVicw. Th~l~thalfa block or wtm~.~. Pranks: Alright. SecingthattSwc'snootl~rcom~*~rcgazdingthe~vcpack~is there a motion to adjourn? ~ PLANNING REG~ MI~'HNG JANUARY 7, ~ Clmirmm~n B~ called rise ~ to order at 7.~ p.m. Ml~t~l~q8 ~: ~ Bl~kow~ak. LuAnn $ida~. Bru~e Fe~ Craig C~ay~-~; Uli Sa~che~ tach s~l~ ..a ~ ~ Plann~, and ~ ~~ Ja~t & Jerry Paulsea ~.i~e Lloyd PUBLIC HEARING: FOR PRgIA[MINARY PI. AT APPROVAL WITH VARIANCE8 CREATING 2 AIqD AN OUTLOT ON PROPERTY ZONED CENTRAL BUtHNES8 DL.qTRIC~ Jeff King Jack & Paula Atkins Bob Generous immmted the staff repm~ on this ttmn. Blaekowiak: Thank you. Bob, I have one quick question. Blaekowiak: So it's HDA drive~. Generous: Yes~ 767 Carv~~ ~ 220 West 78"' Street You said that they want to ~ it. Blackowiak: And is the~ a specific buy~ in mind fur this parcel right now7 (~aeaxms: Not right now. They'm discus~g it with lots of people but no one's come fca'ward. Blaekowiak: Okay. Questious of staff, anyone7 Feik: Ijusthaveone~ The old town hall, what's it's curmnt use? Generous: Jure, you know it's whatever, wheae~ the ~ would leaee it but we vnmt to maintain it as a histc~ buildin~ ia my undmnt~tmding so w~'rc not going to expa~ it. to be removed fi'am that. Blsckowiak: Okay, thanks. LuArm_ Sidney: M~,~m C~air. Wcodering why the City ~ t~is app~ a~d no~ t~ EDA. Sidney: Same proce~? Aanenson: Yep. ofope~ spac~ _b~_ -~eitisasmallcx~merlot. I~messmyque~onwouldbe, de6r~!smsll. I mean to me it's so~-whai of a fairly lal~ spot s~d the f-a~ tha~ iI's tied di~ctly to the west of t]~ numbe~ part of it because ii mi~M be the I~DA ueeds to sell this. T~ City m~ds mo~ey ~ all that stuff lik~ tirol, bu~ 18uess I was silfin~ ~ ~ boy, if you could fred mm~ of a bet~ spot to bare a l~lmin~ area. You lmow wtmtm- it'd be an ~, you Imow I don't know wkat, b~ it seemed like itwas a ~ spot for it sol was just curious as to your thou~J~s. utility as a ~ site to the community, a~l yes, the CiIy is looki~ at a ~ for Sla~e: Okay. Soo~lastque~on. Sot~econcernthaIapiec~of~,~~~ parcel to tl~ ~ the ceamery, t~ old church, I mean I'm ~st tryi~ to picture whal, a Planning Commission ~ - January 7, 2003 Walgreen's or something, who knows. You know I'm just throwing thia out but what that would look like so close to this part of history. off the bus on that. Staff is ~ w~ go~ on that pmpew] is, whea I say stuff., the planning staff, that is srchil~-~mlly compatible and cc~pli~ what's down th~t~ _beca_ ~t~. if you go back wh~ we did the Vision 2002,, or ~v~ tl~ Highway 5 co. ldor standnxda, The view of that simple, the old St. ~'s steeple, can be se~n. It's a nice slght line frmn a lot of diff~r~t directions. So as you're cnmlag down that street, we wam to ~ that. Again, the int~ation to redevelop the prope~ so it is a valid concera. What you're saying is architecua'ally what's going to fit them~ Slagle: Can I ask what the EDA paid for tl~t7 su,s e Ocherous: No. Lot l'sthebigom. Sacche~ Oh, theother~ia7,0O0,~y. I have to look at these ~om ~y, alright. My r~ question, can you lglp me talking a hardship, what exactly is the hanislnip he:re? Sacchec Yeah, I undersmmt that but titan you could say well tt~'s f~ ti~e purpose of im~msing tl~ value of t~e mst, isn't it? C~merous: Unless ~ sold t[~ whole thing. C~m'ous: This one lot they could go like that and th~ we wouldn't pa'es~we the histmic. Sscchec So h the lm, dship that we could not Nre~w~e fl~e histc~ part if we would red~e ~ variance7 Istha~thehsrdship? Inmnmwet~lz~lprmedhm? CSty would maim. We just have, the improvemm~ ate there that the City wants ~ Sacchec Right, right WhatI'mtryingtoumtemand, ifsomebodyelse~~~. We look hardship and increase value, I would say no way. Now it happens to be the city. That makes really not that big of a diffexence. But to at least mitigate it, I mean I can see that the Woald the~ be a po~bility to maim the lot that goea with the him~c pan a little bigger W ~ ~outh? I mean it's kind of a furmy ~h ,m~e the~ with all _the~o__ ~ Yeah, what it is, it's following ~ parking loc Sacchet: Is there a reason why not part of this lmrkinE lot could go with th/~ prope~? Annenson: The City owns the lot. C~erous: We own ~ whole thin~_ Saetia: So it's already going a little bit into the parking lot. Geaerous: Yes. Blackowiak: But, excuse me Uli. Aanenson: The paddng lot will be ta'a up as part of thi~ developm~ Not necessarily. Not all ofic Just where the building pad would go in. Blackowiaic At lea~ the ncrttm-a hatf nnd- Aamm~ No. We've been working on desi~s, I d~n't thlnir so. Oeaeroua: The majority of it will remain bec__-,-,e it's pretty tight in the~ how you configure it. Blackowiak: Right, okay. I'm sorry. ~ Uli, one more thing. If we had exlxtmt~ this so thst the Lot 2 wns mnrketable as a redevelopment site, then yes. it would not make sense. Sacchet: Yeah, Itmdemaad. The inIent was not to remarket that Lot 2. The inteat is to presexve the historic and you did give me a framework in terms of what the pressures are on this so I 4 Bl~kowialc Qu~i~7 Lillehaug: I think some might have already been ~ her~ but I do have a q~e~__-stion. Ifiti~ developed, it would gmlmbly be typical that a building would g~ on the nca'th end of that lot. if there's a buil~ that would n~r~ than lilly be plm:ed on the north r~! of that lot, wouldn't Aanenson: I'll go back to whea'e the fooq:a'int was befo~ and I think wheal this ~ in going to show that where the foognint was befi:a~ the original Pauly's building and consism~ with that. Sa~chet: ...it was pretty low the Pauly's building Slagle: So when you say, when it comes up, I mean is there a lmmy a~tive effm't right now on this site? ~.in,-haug: Then my other questiou would be,, is Outlo~ A, do~s th~ City ~ on ~ ownership of ~ lot7 Lillehaug: Okay, thank you, Blackowiak: Okay. Ltl~nn, go abe. Ad. Sidney: One mor~ question. What a~ the drawtn~:ks to ~ a 10,000 squa~ foot lot and 100 foot frmmq~ for the old V'dlag~ Hall'/ Why can't we maintain m'dinance on that lot? Ammenson: Well I think we could ~ that i~ we own tl~ property aad ~y else owns it, t[gliW~'l~goiagtOlrlOw Klldrnsintsin ollrpl'oIg~. Alldc~lllditbl~lllI'llfi'tl{l~ IfflOth~wlly, sur~ Would ii affect the purchase price? Posm'bly. That's a cleeisi~m, you't~ going to mak~ a differently7 Yes. Slagie: The side setback cm the larg~rparcel, did I see somewhere whemilwas 10 feel? Oen~xms: The~'s no ~ setlmclc Slagie: Okay, ~o .... the building could be I0 feet from. Generous: It's a building code mquiremem that you ~ a 10 foot ~ from the property line m-you have togo toa different fire rating fur the wall and you can't have opea~ings and things lilm that but ammcatmlly tl~-'y could build out to tl~ prolm~ ~ ,,, long as they can ~ it_ Fo~ tl~ fir~ cod~ tl~t ~ go clout. Plannin~ Commissioa ]V[___~ng - Jalmary ?, 2003 Slagle: Can I ju~ ask your thoaghts on tha~ For thi~ _upcom~ I mean are you in support of thnt Or al~ yOU goillg to tl~ ~ bring it you know as f~r away from the ~ri~'ing structure as you can? Generous: No stmcan~. Just... Saccl~:. Nosmgtums, oimy. So that is a good answer, thsn~. Blsckowiak: Okay. Any other quesfi~? Sum, go ahead. Sidney: Anotherquesticm. Why isn't thi~ coming in with a prapmal and why is this not in dimct c.o~junction with a propoeal, because I'm having a hard time thinking about a building on that doing it now and notlalm'? Tl~twouldmak~mamsemetome. To be ple___t~d_ at that time. As.neason: Well there's no ~ ~ thsL And the purchaser wnn~x, the pm'chasee would want to know whaI tidy're Imying. Blsckowiak: Olmy. Blackowiak: Oksy. Feik: This isn't specifically mlamd to the appticaticm, or the issue in front of us, but what you snticipate ~rnin~ in ulli,,,~te, ly being ~ on thl, pazce, l, do yoa amicipam a mla~iveJy va_rianc~ fr~ con~'u~ion ~ m~ w~ looking at thlnkin~ you're dowl~ tl~ ~ path a ~ bit with yollr o(.ber thin? thst would cxIHpo~ what w~'re doiag he~ t_cmi~h~ Feik: Okay. Aammson: That' s the only ama we' ve go~ a grouping of histcs~ buildings. No maRer if it's this 6 when you have two buildings ou one lot. That's also a building code aad a site plan issue too so whoev~' purcha~s thi, property c~ what they're needing f-or square foot, what's on the property alld ¢li,,l;UStln~ t~ colIlple~ti~8. Wh~ it coH~ lilrollgh W~'I'~ ~ tD do ~ ~ m g~t a good site plan, which we're doing now and again you'll any site plan that comes on the proixaly Rio. Claybaugh: I've got a question Alison. Blm:kowhik: Oh sure. Claybau_oh: la it possible to flip thia owr and sirucu~ Lot 2 as the 10,000 square feet, 100 foot fronIagu and if~ cc~es in and the use that's proposed ~ mm~ square fcota~ they come in and obtain a variance. Essentially, I dmm't know what the ~ prcc~ for ~ the lots if that just doesn't work buI, I undetmand why the City wants to do it. Claybaugh: But I mean if you did it, how c~.a~lex would it be fc~ someone to c~m~e tmck in? Aanenson: A~in I'll go bazk to what the criginal footprint is. That's what we're tryin~ to stay within kind of some of those pairna__~ I think tha's on one of your ahee~ C,~aemus: We have the secoud sheet shows a parking loC Itd__cesn'thavethe... Claybaugh: What l'm driving at Kate ia, the thrust behind the variance for the frontage and the square foota~ is to maximin, tile marketabl~ lot, ~? Claybaugh: Right, but I mean you would Ir pgsm, iag it if you had 100 feet of ~ aad 10,000 square feet It'd still be [a'userv~ Aaneuson: Right. We'm seiling it all as one lot with th~ conditiou they have to preserve a ~ of~. Claybaugh: Right. But then Lot 1 would not be a~ ~lmle c~ d~firable is th~'com:~m'n, ,md it would be a limiting factor in term~ of marke~g iI. But is the~ a way to do it h'ke that ,md then possibly have the petitioner com~ in and obtain a variance if it's deeu~ n____,'cesgary so we've got 7 Aanenson: Well let's be clear oa this. We d~'t have a purchase agreement. Claybaugh: Iundexsmndthat. Is it a po~'bility or is itjust too cumbersome a ~? Aanenson: I think that's a cumbersome process bat you're certainly weleon~ to mak~ any recornrmmdation different fxmxt what we have.. Blackowiaic Okay. This item is open for a public hinting. Anyon~ wishing to speak, please come to the microphone and ~ yom-name and Mdress for the reco~ lack Atidns: My name is Jack Atidns. I live at 220 West 78"' Street, about 2 blocka east of this propenty. My wife's lived in Chanhass~n, her family has f~r over 100 yeats. This is tmditicaally the old downtown of Ctmnhazzen and I gue~ my ~ ccac~-n ia not letting the site...like that fluorescent lighta going at lEO0 at niEht; ~ld tho~ ~ ~ to ~ in thgx~ So I d~'t know how, if we clear the slate and ma~ it as ea~ as pos~'ble m g~t any variances, we don't hav~ any subdivide it and tl~ eam~ in, they could mqa~t ~ vaxiam~. I'm not aayin~ anybody has at this point but w~ am eoneeax~l about th~ tyl~ of archimca~ the lighling This is a di~azat f-~l in thc ncighbca'lmod. Jack Atldns: I've heard mme~ that a Dai~ Queen or a Grill and Chill is going in the~ and they have light, flumv..~t lights all the way around their buil~ and it sounds compl~ly incompatible with the property. I don't know how that could be addresz~d but if w~'m just tryin~ the city's just trying to i .ml,mVe the ~ or the markgt value of the I know that they have budget re. stnfints right now and they'd like to get a lot of money for the propexty but I'd liim thc Cfty t~ be able m hav~ aome levera~ oyez th~ buyez so we &m't get something tasteless... Aanenam: Well the best leverage ~at we have ia that we own it, and we can decide who m sell it Jack Atkins: So if somebody is the high bia,t,% we'll mfus~ becatm~ we don't want that tha~? Aanenson: Sure, weownit We can decide who to sell it to, sum. Blackowiak Kate, can you talk a little bit about the zoning and whst ifs zoned. ~ we Aanenson: It'szonedcentmltmsitmsawhichis~lyth~mostpm-mi~ive. Hastl~gmat~t amount of uses that would be permitt~ right. G~aeto~s: And the least restrictions. The~'sno~~~ i .mpervious surfac~ limitations. Planning Commission ]V[_l~(~_ 'n~ - ,J~nl.i~n] ?. 2003 Blackowhlc Okay we're looking si platting, well I guess it's my quesiio~. I'm sorry Jack, I didn't mean to cut yo~ off. Are you? JackAtkinz: No, Iwasdone. Thankyou. Bl~kowisk: You're done, okay. Should we be lookin~ into mzouing tl~s too? Blackowiak: It was just ~ng becall~ he said it was the least reslrictive and ff that's a food. Itcouldbeadmg___s~o~_ It could be a lot of those thin~. Blackowiak: Okay, thank you. Debbie. Debbie Lloyd: Debbie Lloyd, 7302 l. zredo Dfiv~ Sony I mlgsed tt~ early discus~i~ on iL Thi~ tt~ subdivision findings in the report really bother ~ I mean I d~n't ~ why the City should get a variance on this parcel. I think we should stick with the cod~ Withthe 100 feot mininmm width, trmding number one, it says the variance for Lot 2 is needed to maintain the minimum lot area for the old V'flhge Hall and pl~_ That doesn't logically ma~ sense to me. Village Hall Rnd for a new lot. I think we're giving up some valuable open space. That's a kind of old feeling, but the new buildings ~ the Medical Ce~er and the ~m corner, the clock towe~, and to imagine a building be/ng built in that corner using, when I hear Bob say no the building. I like the idea Alison of po~'hly reerm~E. I just think that land is val,,shle in the center of the city. Keeping some green space for a o .......... Ry is ~ i .mpormnt. Well itdoes. It defi~itely increases the value of the cther loC I don't have it msrh~_ Igue~... Sacchec It's on page 6, poim C. think in this case. The iment does seem to increase the value of the hnd fix the CRy, and I undersmmi we need money, and I'm not for incrmsed taxes, buI. And the~ I don't undemand code requirements. So wouldn't have thru, I mean wouldn't, at what value does that give? So it Serry Paulsen: SerryPauisen, 7305LaredoDrive~ I' d like to think in terms of why we ripped down Pauly's and the old b~k building in the tim: place. I think it was considered kind of a blight cm the nei~ and we wanlrd to get fid of that to have a little aestheiic Ol~ning W 9 down those buildings. And you talk about a gathering p~ The h'bnu~ is not agathetingplace. The building is not a ~g place. Openspaceisa~spacc Ifth~couldaffcaditI gue~, I'd lik~ to see it remain as open space. Thank yom Blackowiak: Thank you. Anyon~ else wishing to comment7 Okay, seeing no one I w~ cleie the public hearing. Comments from commiqiomrs. We'H ~ down. Lillehaug: I'd ~ to ~ one nx~ quesli~ if I ceald and that kind of follows up to the last Aanenson: We beught it to redevelop the propetty. We had aa~rthez gmject that came in and that's what kind of spun'ed, acm_ally it waa a two story building and that a~n_ ally spun~ the plan that the planning staff took on to call the old Villag~ area, which we kind of cam~ up wi~ deai~m standards that were kind of the old town that were mm~ oompalible with the historic development. A~ I say, that phm moved along it fei1 apart and since that time it ham't beea was the height and compatibility, which we'r~ all, ns a planning staff are mare seasitive to... Lillel~ug: Okay, thsnkyou. And theo my comments, and lt would be ~n one variance ~. And it would be on G Igue~Idimgr~withthefiudingouC. Ireally~~~of this is to ~ the value of Lot 1, but in the second hrva~th I would say that I think this is probably th~ perfect si_h,niion of why we would want to use a variance in this case, becau~ we are, I m~an it's a special Sih,n~iOn. A devel~s not co,,,;,,~ in her~ to develop both parcels and I feel that this is an intent of a varian~ and I do support the variance and I do supp~ staff's Sacchec Well I guess my position I made son]~what clear with my questions. I however think we need to find a balance him ~th what's doable. I mean my p~y is to see how it can b~ approve it a little bit aad that's a giw and ta~ I don't ~ any t~son why this lot cannot I~ can be built upon. And I m~an it's, I don't st~ th~ hardship ~ except it's a hanlahip frontag~ ~ ~ I ~h~ at a rnlnlrm:m I would lilm to see that remain maintain th~ siz~ of the lot became there's no reason why it can't be expanded to tl~ south and that lot line is very awkward. If that paddng lot does get t~n up...landacape it ~ w~r so it fits into the conlv, xt. Blackowiak: Okay, thank you. Rich. Slagle: I just have two quick qur~ons, and ti]tn I'H make commtz]~ TI~ church that we, Colonial. Whe~ do they park? 10 Planning Commission Meetln~ - January 7, 2003 Aanenson: Yea. They also use that loL That will be ~ as a nami~ipal lot ~:ause the Clmm~ uses it for the old Village Ha~ and thea the oki chinch building is also used by that 1~ Slag]e: Any sense, second question. Any sense that the~ will be issues of parkin~ with a pcnential? Aanenson: No. It'soffsetuses. $1agle: Occasional type~ ?umenson: Yeah. I'mnot sure how much ac~dvity they have on Wednesday ni~oht or otl~r night time ~fi~ ~ ~ ~'s ~y ~ ~~ ~ And the~'s also a s~mred with Slagie: Reamx, okay. My c~ly cetmuent is thst you know in my beart l want to vote ag~m it not because I think it's such a hsd thing_ I think staff is doing whst they should do given the times, but I just in some restmc~, you know 10 years from now to think thst thst site could tmv~ we should deny it and n~ir~ a reeomm~datlon thst v~ rezone it. But I also know that givea the situation in today's world, the City needs the mm~-y so, which I th~k g~es against tl~ va~nee l(c) so I'mconfused. That's whtm~ I'mat. Blaekowia~ Okay, thank you. Lu~- Slaty: I'd agree with Uli in runny of his points thnt I just don't see a hardship with this application for a variance. I think the ~ity should be held to the sa.u~ standards ns ~ applicants that come before the Phuming Co ...... ;~iO~ and I d~'t see any ~ason why the lot size can'tbe~at 10,000squa~fee~. 100 foot ~u~ag~ ttseemsl~whatwe'~.~wtmtwe have before us right now, the lot size for the old Village Hall is much too stingy and I just don't cammenting earlier that I think, you know I hav~ tl~ ~ ~ I'd like to see the request fcr a variance in the same application as the si~ plan_ WeAl for the pmthuiaary plat si~ plan because in that way we might produce a sea, es of l:ntildings ~ ~y ~ ~ ~. Ijust on this in this area. I just think we need more space amumi the old V'dlage Hall otha'wise we'~ creating a non-conforming lot which would in my mind maybe f-or~ the issue of moving the tnfilding somewhere else and I don't th~nk that's really where I want to go with thi~. So anyway, I really can't suplx~t this varianc~ Bla~kowia~ Oi~y, tl~mk y~. Brm~ They ~ to buy this, these parcels to devalop th~m on a futu~ basis. I think if w~ vnm: to approve this tonight we would be setting a standazd that I think sittin~ up ha'~ I would be hard pressed to deay or to make a recomu~mdation I shoald say to dray other develop~s in a like situation, ti~ sam~ deny the., I'm tripping ovea' my own words lm'e but I don't think we would be treating the average citizen equitably unless we also approve this. Aptm~ved the avera~ citizca tn-inging a like proposal, and I clea't think this body would do that. I really don't think if this w~s 11 Planning Commission Mec~i,g - January 7, 2003 ofChanhass~n. And l can't suptx~rt it as laid out. Ifitwas aprivatedevelopcr, Iwouldccrtainly no~ support it and I woald hope that the (TRy woaldn't have bro%-,ht this before us. Blackowiak: Craig any c~m~ments? Claybauglg Comrr~nts ~ along tl~ sa.n~ ~ Typically tl~'s ~ wh~ oth~ vn_rinnc~ con~ in front of this panel nmi it's equated by a pen:e~n~. This r~hly 35 pe~'c~t variance on two different ~gori~s. My concern is that w~ t~ variance is approved or not, that's my commeals. Blackowiak: Okay, thank you. I think that's kist of the infa'matio~ thit will be ~ to Cit~ Co~ becat~e Fw i~ comu~.~ia I ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I just think of people coming b~ us with their ~ a~ they say you imow Fd lilm 2 fe~ on this sid~ amt v~ say you know, you could actually build it back heze and ~ot need any variances and so we deny it and I iceep looking for a reason to go ahead stat approve this, and I haven't found it y~t. We can do thix lot split without ~. tt is posm'ble. Okay, and that's so ~ the mason we give to applicams. You do have a way to do this without vatiJuges so thei'efom we're not granting you a va_flatus_ _~ Variances am special ch-camstances, sad I ~ that there is a de. sire m ~~ income for the City, but that d_n~_ fly in the face of faxling namh~r 3. C acm_ ,lly sayia~ that it's not based on a ~ to ~ value or income potmtia[, which I think we're trying to do in thiscase.. So I look at that a~ n~ one, the~'snohardship. Numbertwo, we can do the split it is a self created hardship bx-__~_use you can do it without variaxges. Two mm~ comments. I'm glad that the Atkins cam~ this evening. I was commenling ~ today when I spoke with list ami l'm s~ I would thlnic thai, I don't lmow how the 500 feet was drawn for this but to include more of the nei~bc~s that are going to be directly affecl~ by this because it just seems rather limited of the let's say, 27 names. I see 2 that I think arc, maybe ~ am x~d~tj.~. Tbe residents n__~t_ to be notified so I would hope that we would notice at eitb~ 1,000 feet or l.~)0orwhateverit'sgoin~tota~. Weneed to gt-.t mot~ people to find out about thi~ Having said that I don't feel it meets any of the luudship x~luhmnen~ the only way, and I'm not say~n~ that I would do this, but the only way that I would even ~ C~y COLmCH goh~ ~ wRh ~ VlffisllCe8 wollld bo t]~ ~ be a gliplllnfiOIl that the 7J~in~ be l~ And also that Lot number 1 would stay with old Village Hall Tn other wonts, the~ would never be any other use than old Villag~ Hall on that lot because w~'re Cl~;:-~ a non~g lot and if old Vfllag~ Hall goes away for some ma~on, I don't want somelifiag sandwich~ in them in the ftmJ~ and that's really I think what my bigge~ worry is. Is that we're making a decisio~ based on right hay., fight now, but as a Planning Co .... ission I think o~r job is to look out :5, 10, 15, 20 years and say okay, maybe right today we v__,x,4_ that dollar but in 10or 15, 20 yeari, is that, is it wcr~h it? AndI don't know that it would be. So I would hope that if the City Council would choose to grant these variances, that the~ would be some sort of a stipulatim that nothing other than old V'fllag~ Hall or historic building or some. thing that would limit any futura poieatial on that other lot, so those am my commems. I would like a m0tioa please. 12 Planning Commi~ioa M~n~ - Jaaugry 7, 2003 Lillchaug: Could I mak~ one more quick questica? The ~ lot for thc old town hall. doe8 that 66 foot follow thc existing lot line fc~ that town hall? Generous: Yes. That's our aaa~n!~i. 'on that it follows, except fi:~ it's technically on the whole Blackowiak: Isn't it technically one lot right now? C~aexous.' Yes. Blackowiak: RighL So the~ is no lot line interior right now. t.mehaug: Okay, thanks. Blackowiak: So would anyone like to r~ir~, a motion? Feik~ I'll try iC Blackow~alc Okay. words. I recommend we deny. 2.59 acres of land zoned CBD locat~ st the southeast ~ ogWest 78a Street ~ ~ ~ Boulevard, period. Feilc Yes. Blackowialc Okay. And anybody else. Feik: And anybody else. Blackowiak: Okay, is ther~ a second please? Sidney: Second. 78a Street sad Great Plains Boulevard. All voted in favor, exeept ~ who opposed, ami tim motloa carried with a vote at 6 to 1. 13 Planning Commlaaion Me.rig - January 7. 2003 APPROVAL OF MINUTK~: Commisaiener Fcik noted the Minutca of the Planning Commission meeting tia~t November 19, 2002 amended to incln&'- Stcvc~ TJll¢l~ng as Slaglc: Ijust have a question regarding the last City Cotmcil meefing. I don't know whoev~r was doing the Slagle: Okay. Can l ask what happened with th~ ~idewalk aleag the west ~de of the hotal. The little walkway in the pm-king lot and I'm toting to think what else. Did it have any other concerns? Slaglez Yeah any, what ~? Slagle: Was staff ia agnmmm with that? Folk: No. Slagle: You didn't agree with that? Feik: Fll give you. Aanenson: We g~ve the c~tio~ and ~ your Feik: Staff did not rec~mmm~ what we had ~ er spem siLZ-ific~nt am~mt of time em Aanensen: We f-erwatded your recommm~n~io-,, but we did not suppc~ ~ of the laad~a~ fro' additional ~ We felt the landacapi-E wa~ mm~ i ~m!m~tam...at~licafion $1agle: Can Ijuat see aeogy of yo~, of the documm~ given to tl~ Slag, lc: I m~an I jtmt. what I'm ~ ia it a lmmy fair aha~ tlmt you aay ht~ ~'~ beth or ia it? Aanenaon: Wetryto. Wctryto, right. Imm~nitwaag~ingtogofm'wa~lwithtwo~ Slagle: I gueaa I'm. Atmenson: I ~hl,k I try to, you can aak Brac~ try to...the cem6~'na that tl~ Plaaning Commim, ion 14 Planning C. ommi~ion M~,~g - January 7, 2003 Slagle: Okay. Of all az~as that we're talking about pedeatri~ friendly. Blaekowiak: Ye, ah. Slagle: Well if you could get the mlnutm. Slagle: I know if you've got. Ithink~ Right now I don' t have Acmbat. Blackowiak: Okay, open discugsion. Aanenson: Technically we adjourm That open clip--ion i~ m:tually... Blackowiak: Well yeah, I know I was looking becauae it ~ adjounmm~ at~'wazda. Okay, any ottm' itmm anybody would I~ to address be. fore w~ adjourn? Thca we'll diacma th~ C~y Cod Upd Ah gh 15