CC 2009 04 27
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 27, 2009
Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was opened with the
Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mayor Furlong, Councilman Litsey, Councilwoman
Ernst, Councilwoman Tjornhom, and Councilman McDonald
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Gerhardt, Roger Knutson, Laurie Hokkanen, Paul Oehme, Todd
Hoffman, and Jill Sinclair
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Mayor Furlong: Thank you and welcome to everybody. We’ve got some people standing at the
doors, if you can work your way in on the aisles we’d appreciate it. There’s some more room if
you go to the next door over. To come in as well or just come across the front. I’d like to
welcome everybody here this evening as well as those watching at home. We’re glad that you
joined us. The first item today I’d like to ask if members of the council if there are any changes
or amendments to the agenda. If not then without objection we’ll proceed with the agenda as
distributed.
ARBOR DAY PROCLAMATION AND INVITATION TO ARBOR DAY.
Mayor Furlong: I’d like to start with a public announcement regarding this year’s Arbor Day
celebration. City of Chanhassen will be celebrating our Arbor Day this coming Saturday, May
nd
2. In the morning community groups will be cleaning neighborhood parks. At noon all the
volunteers will be gathering at the senior center for a thank you luncheon with myself. Also in
the morning Bruce the Bug Guy will be giving a presentation at the Chanhassen Library. That’s
a great event. He’s done it before. The children really love that. Master gardeners will be
available at the library as well to help residents diagnose plant problems. Children’s activities
will be happening in the library lobby area as well as including planting seeds to take home and
some other craft projects. There will be a tree sale again this year as well. If you’re interested in
obtaining trees please contact City Hall. The events begin at 10:00 a.m. and noon and continue
til early afternoon so I would encourage people to come down to the library, city hall and
participate. And I would like to add there’s a proclamation that’s been put together. I’d like to
add that as item 1(h) on our consent agenda which we will ask the council to approve here in just
a moment.
PRESENTATION OF ARBOR DAY POSTER CONTEST WINNERS.
Mayor Furlong: At this time as well I would, we have a number of students that have
participated in our annual Arbor Day Poster Contest. A number of them are here and we want to
recognize them so I’m going to come down to the front and we’ll invite some students up and
congratulate them on their work. I do have a couple members of our Environmental Commission
City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
here. Rose Kircher is with me up here. I see J.R. Relick too. If you’d like to come up and join
us, you’re more than welcome to.
J.R. Relick: Great, delighted to. Sure.
Mayor Furlong: On behalf of the Chanhassen City Council and the Environmental Commission
I’d like to congratulate all the winners in this year’s Arbor Day Poster Contest. The City has
been sponsoring this contest for 10 years as a way to express our commitment to trees and their
benefit in our city. Every year the local fifth graders are invited to submit their drawings on an
annual theme. This year’s theme for 2009 was Trees are Terrific in Cities and Towns. The City
would like to thank all the fifth graders from St. Hubert’s School and Bluff Creek Elementary for
their wonderful drawings. We’d also like to thank Lotus Lawn and Garden for their generous
donation of the grand prize this evening which is a potted tree of the winner’s choice. Please
visit the Chanhassen Library’s Wilder Room over the next week to see all the posters submitted.
The framed winning poster will hang in City Hall along with the other winners from past years.
At this time I’d like to invite some of the runners-up to come up and join us up here. They will
be able to join us at Arbor Day this coming Saturday, as I mentioned before, to pick up potted
trees, is that correct? Excellent. So when I read your name if you’d like to come up and join us
up here. First one is Lynsey Zemanick. Max Scharfenberg. Daniel Scharfenberg. Sydney
VanBergen. Amasia Gordon. Piper Melbye. Chloe Kucera. Clairisa Wagner. Annie Rothstein.
Tess Ryan. Abbey Nichols. Anna Zumwinkle. Allie Bodin. And Maddy Schmall. Why don’t
you guys come around this way. Somebody can hide my arm. Move in. Move in and around
here. Turn so you can look out that way towards all the moms and dads with cameras. At this
time I’d like to introduce the grand prize winner of the contest, and this year was very special.
Hugh Truempi. Is Hugh here?
Mr. Truempi: Hugh could not make it but I’m his dad and his younger brother Nathanial.
Mayor Furlong: Hugh, as I said, is the grand prize winner for the city. His poster also competed
at the State level and he was chosen as grand prize winner for the Minnesota State competition as
well. His poster was sent onto the national competition for the National Arbor Day Foundation.
If you can extend to Hugh our congratulations and appreciation for his participation. This
picture will be displayed up in City Hall with the other ones for years to come so.
Mr. Truempi: Great, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Very good.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman McDonald seconded
that the City Council approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City
Manager’s recommendations:
a. Approval of Minutes:
-City Council Work Session Minutes dated April 13, 2009.
-City Council Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated April 13, 2009.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Receive Commission Minutes:
-Park and Recreation Commission Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated March 24,
2009
Resolution #2009-34:
b. Approval of Vehicle and Equipment Purchases, 2009 CIP.
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Resolution #2009-35:
c. Burlwood & Burlwood 2 Addition, Project 03-10: Accept
Street and Utility Improvements.
Resolution #2009-36:
d. Public Works Facility: Approve Quotes for Floor Finishing.
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e. Cheers Wine & Spirits, 530 West 79 Street:
1) Approval of Stipulation of Facts and Civil Sanction.
2) Renewal of Off-Sale Intoxicating Liquor License.
f. Approval of Temporary On-Sale Liquor Licenses for Softball Tournaments at Lake Ann
Park, May 16, June 27 & 28, Chanhassen Lions Club.
g. Approve Purchase Agreement for Remnant Right-of-Way Parcel along TH 212 from
MnDot.
Resolution #2009-37:
h. Proclamation Declaring Saturday, May 2, 2009 as Arbor Day in
the City of Chanhassen.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
Mike Schwartz: Good evening.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
Mike Schwartz: Mayor, good to see you.
Mayor Furlong: Good to see you.
Mike Schwartz: My name’s Mike Schwartz. We live at 469 Pleasant View and I would like to
address the council about the fence ordinance that you have. We have a dispute with our
neighbor over the fence ordinance and I’m not here to talk about that. That’s our issue and we
will address that but the city has passed an ordinance with respect to fences. You’re required to
get a permit to build a fence. You pay a fee for the permit. After the fence is built the City
comes out to inspect the fence. Make sure it is built in accordance with the permit. And there’s
a 1 inch setback requirement so that the fence is at least 1 inch off your property line. And what
we have learned is that, that ordinance may or may not be enforced. And what we would like the
Council to consider is that the ordinances should be enforced and if a fence has been built and it
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
violates the ordinance, at a minimum the City should send a letter to the property owner that is
violating the ordinance requesting that the property owner bring their fence in compliance.
When you have to get your permit you submit a survey and the surveyor is the one that
determines the property line. And while there might be disputes over the survey, when the party
that submits the application for the permit does the survey and their fence violates their own
survey, I think it’s not something that the City should ignore. And if they are going to ignore it,
then change the ordinance or abolish the ordinance. Whatever. It just doesn’t make sense to
have an ordinance and then not enforce it. The other thing that I would suggest that the City look
into, and I suggest this not because of our situation. We’ll take care of that ourselves but for
other citizens that may not be able to take care of a situation. The ordinance talks about the good
side of the fence and it’s supposed to be facing the neighbors. It’s not supposed to be, you’re not
supposed to put the bad side of the fence so that other people have to look at it. And it doesn’t
require apparently that the fence owner has any obligation to maintain the fence so that if they
decide to stain the owner’s side, let the paint or stain drip over to the neighboring side, not stain
it. Not maintain it. That is what the neighbor has to look at, and in our case it got to be
troublesome enough that we have not erected our own fence, which is an expense that as an
almost 20 year property owner here in this city, I don’t think it’s an expense that we should have
had to incur but we have. So from an overall standpoint I would ask that you meet with your
building people and discuss with them that when they do inspections that they inspect footings
and if the footings encroach, that the fence not be improved. And while I understand the City
has limited resources with respect to what enforcement action it may take, at a minimum sending
a letter asking the violating homeowner to be in compliance is something that I think this city
should do. So appreciate your time.
Mayor Furlong: Very good.
Mike Schwartz: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Appreciate your thoughts. Anyone else for visitor presentations
this evening? Okay. As always under visitor presentations we take the thoughts under advisory.
We don’t act or respond to the issues directly. We will ask city staff, and I will do that at this
time to consider the comments made and let’s take a look at it and see if it warrants some
changes and actions in terms of what we’re doing. We’ll take a look at it. Very good. We do
have visitor presentations at all of our meetings so we always welcome comments and ideas and
suggestions such as those for us to consider. At this time we’ll move on.
LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIRE DEPARTMENT UPDATE.
Lt. Jim Olson: Thank you Mr. Mayor and the City Council, good evening.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
Lt. Jim Olson: This month I have included in my packet the sheriff’s office area report for the
month of March, the area citation list, a crime alert that was issued by Crime Prevention
Specialist Beth Hoiseth, and the Community Service Officer report. Are there any questions
about the items that are in the packet at all this evening?
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Questions for Lieutenant Olson on any of the items in the packet?
Lt. Jim Olson: I have a few other items of interest that I would like to mention as well this
evening. The sheriff’s office last week had their awards banquet in the city of Chanhassen and
this awards banquet involves both citizens and employees alike with this. There was a few
deputies that either worked in Chanhassen this year or work in Chanhassen, or excuse me,
worked in Chanhassen last year or work in Chanhassen this year that received awards last week.
Corporal Tim Gerber, who is actually currently working received the Sheriff’s office highest
award which is the Medal of Valor which involved a, him going out on Lake Waconia, paddling
out with his legs on a small raft to rescue a 16 year old that was out close to the middle of the
lake. Him and another, Sergeant Dave McDonald so he received that. We also had Deputy Ben
Grommetz, Jamie Horvath and Mike McCurahan who received life savings awards for their
actions involved with saving somebody’s life last year which is very important. We also had the
two folks present that, whose life they saved and it was a pretty touching, very emotional
moment for everybody involved. Sergeant Pete Anderley, who you of course know, also
received an award last week and that was the Medal of Distinction for a negotiation that he did
with a party that was suicidal with a gun in his residence so those were awards that were received
by folks that either worked in Chanhassen or work in Chanhassen. And there was also a number
of citizens that received awards also but it was a good banquet that we had last week. I wanted
to bring that up to the council. We also recovered property from a theft from vehicle in the city
of Oakdale last week and Deputy, or excuse me, Detective Bob Zydowsky is working, currently
working on that. There was also, Deputy Zydowsky has been busy with presentations for both
the Chanhassen Public Safety Recognition Banquet that was last week, and a seminar that’s
going on at the Arboretum, and thanks to an investigation by again by Detective Zydowsky, he,
there are 4 juveniles that are currently going through restore to justice, or restore to conferencing
through Maureen Farrell. That’s occurring, actually it might even be going on tonight with that.
I can tell that the weather is starting to warm up a little bit again. Even though it didn’t seem like
it this weekend, but we’re starting to see an increase in vandalism around the city. There was a
few vehicles that had a fire extinguisher that was discharged within cars and there were some
other acts of vandalism around town, but I want to remind parents of the curfew ordinance in the
city. For juveniles under the age of 12 it’s 9:00 Sunday through Thursday, and it’s 10:00 Friday
and Saturday. And then for juveniles 12 to 14 years old it’s 10:00 Sunday through Thursday and
11:00 Friday and Saturday. Then for juveniles 15 to 17, or 15 through 17 it’s 11:00 Sunday
through Thursday and then 12:01 Friday and Saturday, and if you do see kids that are out and
about after curfew, make sure you give us a call. We certainly want to follow up on that and at
the very least get them home to their families so. And the last thing I wanted to talk about this
evening, I’ve had some questions about the legality of air soft BB and paintball guns within the
city of Chanhassen. These are illegal. They cannot be shot off in the city of Chanhassen on
public or private property, and that’s true not only in Chanhassen but also most cities in Carver
County. It is legal within the townships but within city limits they cannot be used. Any other
items for the sheriff’s office at all this evening?
Mayor Furlong: Any questions? I’m wondering Lieutenant there was also a safety seminar that
the city sponsored and I don’t know if this is a good time to bring that up or another time maybe
you could just update people on the topic and attendance as well.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Lt. Jim Olson: Absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: I know that’s, I think this is the second year that we’ve done this annual
program.
Lt. Jim Olson: It was a second year and I was, of course I was at that seminar on Thursday night.
The Minnesota Attorney, or a representative from the Minnesota Attorney General’s office was
there, one of their mediators and he talked an awful lot about internet scams. Identity fraud.
Those kind of things that he brought up and talked about what, how good of a resource the
attorney general’s office is with those, as well as of course the sheriff’s office too but there’s a
number of different programs and different things that they can offer for the citizens. And if
folks do have some questions about that, they can certainly give me a call or can also call the
attorney general’s office.
Mayor Furlong: Very good, thank you.
Lt. Jim Olson: Absolutely, thank you. Have a nice evening.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. I’d like to invite Chief Geske up from the Chanhassen Fire
Department. Good evening Chief.
Chief Gregg Geske: Good evening. Did get a little bit of rain the last few days which helps us
out of course. If you saw on the news we had a large fire up in the northern suburbs. We had a
fire down in Shakopee that 9 fire departments responded to. There is currently a fire ban on still
for scheduled fires that we had for burning permits, which are on hold. You can still have
recreational fires. We do advise, the fire I believe in Shakopee was started by somebody burning
brush so we do have an ordinance in Chanhassen that we can have recreational fires. That ban
does not apply to recreational fires but if you do them, you should abide by the rules that we
have and those are on the city web site, and you can check that out so. I do want to remind
people too that burning leaves is not something we can do in Chanhassen. We do give response
called in as a fire and we had to respond to a couple burning leave calls. You know being Earth
Week or Earth Day last week, it’s best to compost those and we don’t get paged out for compost
calls so it’s best that they do compost those. And you know if we are sent out the deputies can
issue a citation for that and so better off composting your leaves rather than starting them on fire
so… Rain will help a little bit. The burning ban will come off and people do want to have a
recreational fire, be safe at that so that’s really all I have to report.
Mayor Furlong: Very good.
Chief Gregg Geske: Somewhat slow. We’re not up to, we’re still back from last year’s numbers
so I’m sure that’s chalked up to the fire prevention that we do.
Councilman Litsey: Absolutely.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Any questions for the Chief? We had a nice gathering at the fire department
last week I think it was Mr. Gerhardt?
Todd Gerhardt: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: Allianz which was, provided a grant to the fire department of just over $9,000.
The council approved that, as you know Chief, at our last meeting and had a very nice turnout
from the department members out there to thank the company as well as a number of residents
that work for the company were there as well so. So please extend our thanks to your members
that took time out to come out for that. I know they appreciate the donation but it was nice to see
the good turnout as well.
Chief Gregg Geske: And I was in a conference in Indianapolis so that was the reason I wasn’t
there so.
Mayor Furlong: I wasn’t saying who was there. I didn’t take attendance.
Chief Gregg Geske: We do appreciate that. We have the big check up at the fire station. We
tried to cash it today but apparently there’s another small check that’s coming.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, the big foam ones don’t go through the drive thru window.
Chief Gregg Geske: And we definitely appreciate the possibility of getting the grant and it sure
offsets the tax dollars and supplies us with some needed equipment here in the city so.
Mayor Furlong: Absolutely and while recognition is due, it’s a great way for that company,
which I know employs a number of people in our area. It’s a good company. It’s a great way for
them to give it back to the community and we really appreciate that so thank you.
Chief Gregg Geske: Thank you.
PUBLIC HEARING: 2009 STREET IMPROVEMENT PROJECT 09-01: ASSESSMENT
HEARING AND AWARD CONTRACT.
Public Present:
Name Address
Richard B. Brown 7114 Pontiac Circle
Alex Avedikian 10220 Mandan Circle
Marvin Oman 6951 Redwing Lane
Marge Johnson 1031 Pontiac Lane
Jim Pedersen 10300 Mandan Circle
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Mayor Furlong: We’ll start out with a staff report please. There will be a public hearing and we
will invite interested parties to come up and address the council on this matter so Mr. Oehme,
why don’t we start with a staff report.
Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor, City Council members. Tonight staff would like to hold an
assessment hearing for the 2009 street improvement project and have the council consider award
of contract for the project. I’d like to provide a brief review of the work for the project along
with the proposed assessment amounts. Public testimony should be received for the project and
the property owners should be reminded that if they wish they must file a written objection with
the city either prior to or during the public hearing. Or the assessment hearing. Objections after
the public hearing are invalid. At this time the city has not received any objections to the
assessments for this project but I did hand out one comment via email that we received recently
to the council so. So basically the project, the 2009 street improvement project is a mill and
overlay. It’s a rehabilitation of the existing streets. It’s not a reconstruction where we’re
removing all the curb and gutter and the pavement. We’re just milling off a portion of the, or
generally we’re removing a portion of the pavement surface and overlaying the street with a new
bituminous surface. A new wear course basically so, also included in the project is
miscellaneous storm sewer improvements in this area. The project areas and then miscellaneous
curb and gutter and sidewalk replacement in portions of the city as well. And also staff is
proposing to, or has included a pedestrian trail improvement in conjunction with this project.
We included a pedestrian trail in the project. These smaller projects typically we get better bids
when we include them in larger street improvement projects so. Getting into the project itself,
there are 3 main project areas. Project area 1 shown in the drawing here is the low density to
medium density residential areas. Urban area. The second project area is the rural residential
areas off of 101 shown here, and then third project area is more the commercial/industrial area
thth
off of 77 Street in general so. Just a little background. The, on January 12 of this year the
council accepted the feasibility study for this project and called the public hearing and the public
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hearing was called on January 26. For this project staff has held 3 neighborhood meetings, one
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in November, one in January and the last recent one was April 15. And then for this meeting
tonight 351 notices were mailed out. So project area #1 is again the urban residential areas. This
project, this area includes Chaparral Lane, shown on the drawing here. Chaparral Court,
Redwing Lane, Redwing Court, Buckingham, or Buckingwood Court, Pontiac Lane and Circle,
and Pima Lane shown here so. The project again is mainly just a mill and overlay. Removing a
portion of the bituminous surface. We’re planning to replace severely damaged curb in this area.
We’re planning to cut out the distressed pavement areas and re-patching. Those are the
alligatored areas. The severe potholed areas. Patching them with bituminous for structural
strength and then fill the wider cracks. And then some minor storm sewer improvements are also
included in this area. Some catch basin reconstructions and some draintile as well. And then
paving all the streets in the project with 2 inches of asphalt again. And no trails or sidewalk are
planned to be added to this project area so. The proposed assessment methodology is our
standard practice of assessing 40% of the project or the street cost back to the benefiting property
owners in the project area and staff did come up with a preliminary assessment amount and have
adjusted those numbers based upon the bids that we have received so for the low density
residential areas, that’s the area shown here in lighter green, 51 units are included in this project
area. The proposed assessment amount is $1,156.81 per unit. The medium density area shown
here in the darker green area, there’s 261 units in this area and a proposed assessment amount
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
here is $512.17, and again these assessment amounts are based upon the bids that we have
received. The terms of the assessment are 8 years at 6% interest. This is the proposed amount.
The assessments in this area are under what the preliminary assessment amount is, or preliminary
assessment was so that’s good news. The project area #2, again that’s the rural residential areas.
These streets include Lakota Lane here off of 101, Mandan Circle shown here and then
Vogelsburg Court. Again these streets have reached their, basically their pavement life and can
no longer be maintained with normal preventive maintenance such as sealcoats or just regular
patching, so for these streets staff is proposing to mill the pavement full depth which means
milling and leaving in place the existing bituminous surface, which adds structural strength.
We’re adding actually, that material is being used for the base material then, and digging out any
of the soft areas that we observe in the project areas on the streets. Re-grading and then paving
the streets again. The City’s not planning to extend utilities to this area. That includes sewer and
water in conjunction with this project. Proposed improvements to Lakota Lake do include an
improvement to the cul-de-sac there. Currently the cul-de-sac is under designed. We’ve been
working with property owners in this area to gain additional right-of-way and make those
improvements at this time so. And that’s included in the construction cost as well. Proposed
assessments to Vogelsburg Court and Mandan Circle, based upon the construction, or the bids
that we received, the assessment amount here is $1,984.91 and that again was under the original
estimate. The proposed assessment for Lakota Lane is $2,699.10 and that’s a little bit above the,
above the original estimate but there’s additional costs that we incurred for this area. Serving
costs and other legal fees so. In terms of, the proposed terms of the assessment for this area
again is 8 years at a 6% interest rate. And property owners have the ability to pay the
assessments off early if they would like and not incur any interest costs. Project area #3. This is
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the commercial/industrial area. This project area includes Quattro Drive shown here, 77 Street,
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187 Street and 78 Street. Again the project includes a milling portion of the bituminous
surface. Replacing severe damaged curb and gutter in this area. Cutting out the distressed
pavement areas. Fixing and filling in the wider cracks in this area on the pavement. Minor
storm sewer improvements which includes re-building a couple catch basins and installation of
draintile. And then overlaying the streets with a 2 inch bituminous mat or new driving surface.
Some of the utilities in this area are currently being replaced at this time and are separate from
the project that’s before you tonight. So for this area staff has proposed an area benefit charge
and based upon this methodology, there’s 14 benefiting properties. Approximately 67 benefiting
acres to be assessed. The assessment amounts are shown here and also included in your packet,
and they are consistent, really close to what the preliminary assessment was that staff had
originally calculated. The terms of the assessments again are 8 years at 6% interest so. Again
there’s a trail that’s proposed to be included in the project. This is a trail off of Trunk Highway 5
from Dell Road to 101. The trail is, has structural issues and cannot, no longer be maintained
effectively so staff is recommending for this trail section to be replaced. There are no
assessments associated with this trail for any of the property owners in this area or any property
owners in the project itself so this is 100% paid for by city costs. City funds. So funding for the
project is shown here. The total street project cost currently is just a little over a million dollars.
The amount being assessed is $379,522.52. That’s for the three project areas. There’s an
overlay for Dell Road that’s also planned that we’re working with the City of Eden Prairie on
that project. They’re still out for bid on that project so hopefully we will receive favorable bids
and we will have council consider awarding our, approving the agreement with Eden Prairie for
those costs and cost sharing for that section of roadway. Eden Prairie is planning to overlay all
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
of Dell Road from 62 down to Trunk Highway 5 this summer so the City of Chanhassen owns
and maintains a portion of that road within our city limits so we’re obligated for some of those
costs. In conjunction with Project Area #1 and #3, the commercial area, there is some city
owned property adjacent to the street being reconstructed. Consistent with other past assessment
projects we are, staff is proposing to assess back a portion of the assessments adjacent for those
properties so basically at Meadow Green Park there’s 7 units equivalent in that park so based
upon those assessments and the assessment amount we’re proposing to assess ourselves back for
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those costs and then there’s two parcels that the City owns along 78 Street that staff is
proposing to assess back to the City so for a total of a little over $9,700 out of the $355,000
that’s being assessed to the total for the project so. Also there’s some storm sewer improvements
that are associated with the project. They’re identified as shown here. These costs again are not
proposed to be assessed back to the benefiting property owners but are proposed to be paid out of
the storm sewer utility fund. The rural residential section of roadway, there’s proposed to be
additional storm sewer improvements to the end of Lakota Lane. They’re outside of the cul-de-
sac area. We’re still working with some of the property owners in this area to make those
improvements so we should hopefully have a design and improvements here shortly to make
those improvements and we tend to take those improvements back to council for approval in the
near future. So if the project would move forward tonight, the schedule would be for the project
to start sometime in May. Staff has not visited with the contractor yet on a schedule, or hasn’t
received a schedule from the contractor for this project. It is our intent to let the property owners
know in the project areas when construction potentially would start so given as much advance
notice as possible before the work actually starts. And then the contract would, in the
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specifications has potential completion for the project is scheduled for August 14 so with that I
would stand for questions if you have any questions. I would recommend that the assessment
hearing be opened.
Mayor Furlong: Just a minute sir. Oh, before you get up. Sir. I’m going to make sure, see if the
council, I’ll bring you up when the public hearing starts if that’s alright. I want to ask council if
they have any questions of staff at this time before we start with the public hearing.
Councilwoman Ernst: I just have one question.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Paul can you tell me, the $75,000 that was budgeted in the CIP for the
Dell Road work, Eden Prairie’s coordinating that but who, so is the City of Chanhassen paying
the $75,000 or who’s paying the $75,000?
Paul Oehme: Well yeah they, the total project cost for Dell will be substantially more than
$75,000. The City, the actual city limits of Chanhassen encroach into Dell Road basically from,
south of the railroad tracks down to Trunk Highway 5 so basically the south leg of Dell Road.
That section is the City’s responsibility to own and maintain so Eden Prairie would be paying for
the rest, the northbound lane of all the northbound lane of Dell Road plus everything north of the
railroad tracks there so, we’re just.
Councilwoman Ernst: Paying for our part.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Paul Oehme: Paying for our portion and that’s it.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. Thanks.
Mayor Furlong: And that’s on, not on tonight for approval?
Paul Oehme: That’s not on tonight for approval. We want to give the council an idea of what
the total estimated expenditures for the street project will be for this.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright, very good. Thank you. Any other questions for staff at this
time? If not what I will do is open up the public hearing and what I think might be helpful is if
we bring up residents that are interested in talking by project area so we can deal with any
specific issues by the project area individually. Sir, what street do you live on?
Richard B. Brown Sr: 7114 Pontiac Circle.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Why don’t we start with project area #1 then. Sir, if you’d like to come
up and get us started, that’d be great.
Richard B. Brown Sr: Alright.
Mayor Furlong: If you could state your name and address again.
Richard B. Brown Sr: My name is Richard B. Brown Senior, 7114 Pontiac Circle. I’ve lived
there since 1996. I have occasion to walk the whole area of the Pontiac Lane, Pontiac Circle,
that area and I also have occasion to frequently travel in the city of Minneapolis and I must say
the road where I live is about 150% better than any of the streets I drive on in the city of
Minneapolis and I wonder why the City of Chanhassen is talking about spending this kind of
money in this kind of economy and assessing people who probably are having a little tough time
paying the bills. And it just seems like it’s untimely and in my opinion unnecessary. One of the
things that really bothers me is the talk about doing something with the curb and gutter. Well we
don’t have any curb. We have a concrete gutter in our area and it’s in super condition. I walk it.
I just walked it this week. I see no cause for any repairs that have to be made there. Now in
spite of what I feel and a lot of other people feel about spending this kind of money in these
times, I hope if the work goes ahead that it’s done properly and one of the things, I used to be a
consultant to the construction industry, including road builders, and it seems when we do roads
in Chanhassen we don’t worry about the construction around manholes and there is something
provided in the industry to raise the manholes to be at a level with the street rather having it be a
big sink hole, the manhole, and you know sometimes maybe it knocks the cars out of alignment
and in our area, all the streets that have been repaired and added to, they have neglected to put
the ring to raise the manhole so I hope this is done. And but overall I don’t think it’s really
necessary to do the area where I live. Thank you.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you Mr. Brown. Mr. Oehme, maybe you want to comment on
some of the questions that Mr. Brown raised. The timing. Why now? Curb and gutter. The
manhole rings.
Paul Oehme: Sure. I’ll try to address some of those. Basically the city evaluates our city streets
and tries to, on a yearly basis, and tries to make improvements to a certain level. We try to
maintain a level of quality for the driving public. You know every city holds their streets to
different criteria and pavement conditions so maybe we’re at a little bit higher. We hold our
streets a little bit higher than Minneapolis or some others, some other communities but this is the
practice that we’ve followed up to this point so just being consistent with past projects and just
moving the, our pavement replacement and rehabilitation projects forward. In terms of the curb
and.
Mayor Furlong: Before we go on there, if we could Mr. Oehme. You’ve expressed to us before
the pavement management system that we, that the city uses to evaluate which streets, the
condition of the pavement and which ones from a priority standpoint. Did you have that slide
with the numbers there for this area?
Paul Oehme: Let me see if, some of them I included. Let me back up here. Yeah I did include
them so.
Mayor Furlong: So maybe you can explain this a little because I think this Mr. Brown might get
to the question of why now we’re looking at these streets.
Paul Oehme: Sure. Yeah so basically our pavement condition or program that evaluates our
streets, we regularly evaluate about a third of our streets every year. We actually go out and
have someone determine what the pavement condition is. We basically assigning a number to,
by a block of street or segment of street and telling us what condition it is based upon and how
far is it from basically a new street and shown on the drawing here, basically our pavement
condition, for a new street it’s 100 units. For the streets currently proposed for rehabilitation
they’re down at the 29’s and the 50’s. Basically half the pavement life is gone from the streets in
this area. If we let the streets go any longer than this, basically you fall into a category that you
cannot do a mill and overlay or a rehabilitation project in this area anymore. For example like
Minneapolis they do a lot more reconstruction of their streets than we do, which incurs
significantly more cost than the projects or the improvements that we’re proposing here tonight.
You know we’re trying to get 15-20 years more life out of these streets than we can right now.
Granted you know if you delay these streets anymore, you can but in the long run you’re going
to be paying more down the road to improve the streets and bring them up to a better paving
condition than you are now and sticking a little bit more, some money into it now and try to get
more life out of the existing curb and gutter and the streets.
Mayor Furlong: And just for comparison I think the Laredo neighborhood, Laredo Drive was
reconstructed last year and if memory serves those assessments were closer to $6,800?
Paul Oehme: Yep, $6,800. Yeah, they’ve ranged between you know $5,800 all the way up to
$7,000 depending upon the area and the improvements necessary.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Mayor Furlong: And that’s a full reconstruction.
Paul Oehme: And that’s a full reconstruction, right. And again the assessments that we’re
proposing here, you know a little over $500 bucks for the medium density and was it $1,400 for,
$1,100 for the single family. Low residential areas in this area so substantially less than a full
reconstruction.
Mayor Furlong: What about the issue of the curb or the gutters?
Paul Oehme: Yeah I mean it’s, I think it behooves us to, if there’s some damaged curb out here
we replace it at this time instead of coming in years down the road when the pavement is newer
and the damaging the pavement.
Richard B. Brown: There’s no curb.
Paul Oehme: There’s curb. I mean it’s surmountable curb and gutter. I should maybe make
myself a little.
Mayor Furlong: So it’s a single.
Paul Oehme: It’s a single, yep. You can drive over the curb so there’s some settlement that are
out there. We’re not proposing to replace all the curb and the gutter. Typically I think it’s like
6% of this area that we plan to make improvements upon. Plows hit it. There’s settlements that
are out there. Some areas don’t drain properly. Those are the areas that we’d like to make
improvements.
Mayor Furlong: And the manhole rings.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, yep. For these type of projects we typically do not like to remove the whole
casting. Basically the manhole lid there. There’s specific rings that you can purchase and I think
put into the project. Inch and a half ring. 2 inch ring. They can just set inside the manhole and
put the casting on top of there so that’s how we typically handle the adjustments.
Mayor Furlong: And will we be doing that here?
Paul Oehme: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, so we will. Okay. And I think there’s been some issues with that even
on the reconstructions about going back the following year and adjusting them.
Paul Oehme: Yeah sometimes.
Mayor Furlong: That’s something that I have supported for a long time so I agree
wholeheartedly with Mr. Brown on the manhole rings. Okay. But the plan is to include that in
this project?
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Paul Oehme: Right. Yeah. Some of these areas there are some settlements around the manholes
that we actually have to remove the concrete rings for I and I purposes. There’s some water we
think are getting into the sanitary system through the grout around some of those rings has
dislodged and has fallen in so we won’t actually adjust or replace those rings. Some of the
castings we’re going to have to rip out but a majority of them I think we’re going to be able to
leave in there and just use those adjustment rings.
Mayor Furlong: And those castings or the ones that require repair, those are being paid for out
of the storm water fund and not assessments?
Paul Oehme: Storm water funds, yep. Storm water fund or actually I think in your background
I’ve identified some costs for sanitary sewer.
Mayor Furlong: Sanitary sewer as well, okay. Alright. Thank you. Let’s go ahead then and
what we’ll try to do, as we’ve just done here, try to respond to questions as they come up so
people get their answers rather than trying to wait til the end, if that’s okay with everyone. But
let’s continue to invite up residents in the project 1 area. This would be residents on Chaparral
Court and Lane, Redwing Court and Lane, Pima Lane, Pontiac Lane, Court and Curve and
Buckingwood Court so if you’re in that project area, if you’d like to come up at this time. Again
please state your name and address for the record please.
Marvin Oman: My name’s Marvin Oman and I reside at 6951 Redwing Lane. I think previous
meeting, and you can remind me but I think in the January meeting they said that possibly the
monies were going to get deferred to 2010. January. And if I understand the statement that if
it’s adopted tonight it’s 90 days and you pay it off and when we were discussing what would be
beneficial to the residents because of economic times, you know payments are the full amount
wasn’t going to be due until 2010. I’m just wondering if that’s a possibility still to be able to
defer a little bit to give the residents an opportunity to come up with some extra cash so that they
don’t incur the extra interest. I know that you’ve done your due diligence to save some money
on the overall project, which is fabulous because of the type of bidding that you got. The other
thing I’d like to understand is that if you cannot pay the full amount off and the next year of
2010, let’s say you came up with the money in June, July or whatever, are you assessed the full
year of interest for that, and I don’t understand why it’d be just assessed the whole year if you’re
paying it off early. And it said in the, in this that the right to partially pre-pay the assessment is
not available and I’m, people come up with money at all different times. I mean why do you
have to pay you know in March and then pay a full year of interest. If that’s how it’s assessed,
I’m not sure. And then my last question is, what type of follow-up after this project is complete
for maintenance of the roads? What is going to be the proper maintenance that’s going to come
up because I think 15 to 20 years after this is done is how long the road is supposed to last
probably before a brand new road is put in.
Mayor Furlong: Very good. Thank you Mr. Oman. Mr. Oehme, do you want to start with any
three of those? Payment schedule maybe.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Paul Oehme: Sure. In terms of the deferral, I mean that’s up to the council how they want, how
you want to handle that. What we had talked about was, there’s a 90 day window that the
property owners can pay off the assessment without incurring any interest, and that’s, I think that
was included in the notice that went out. That’s typically what we do. The assessments are not
due until the first tax statement of 2010 so basically if the assessment is not paid off basically by
the end of this year, the city takes the assessment roll. Takes it over to the county and files it at
the courthouse and it goes on the property owner’s tax statement so, and kind of gets out of the
hands of the city. That’s why partial payment down the road is kind of out of our hands.
Typically the county does not like paying off a portion of the assessments, or half the
assessments. Whatever the case may be. So that’s something that, but that’s kind of out of our
hands.
Mayor Furlong: Do we know what is the timing of when the city submits the assessments for the
following year because we have it for street assessments. We have it for utility funds.
Paul Oehme: Sure.
Mayor Furlong: Do you recall the date of that?
Paul Oehme: It’s typically Novemberish. I can’t recall the exact date but I think it’s the
beginning of November. The finance department has those dates.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. If there’s some way maybe we can confirm that. And I guess
the question gets back to, while there’s an assessment, it is collected through the county property
taxes and so for the city to collect that, we have to submit it to the county and say these are
amounts that need to be assessed to individual homeowners in the coming year. Whether it’s for
street projects such as this. Whether it’s for an unpaid utility bill, or for some other reason and
so once the property tax statement is issued for the coming year, that includes that year’s
principle payment as well as one year of interest and so I think that gets back to your second
question about at any point in time during the year if it’s paid off, why isn’t the interest pro-rated
and the reason is it comes out through the property tax statement which is a fixed amount. Now
the interest on any given year is only for the interest in that year so if a resident did pay off the
entire amount say in 2010, then there would be no assessment and no interest charged for
subsequent years. I believe that, is that your understanding as well?
Todd Gerhardt: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: So I think that gets to the question of the why no, it’s not like a mortgage or a
bank where you get a payoff amount on a particular day. These go through the property tax
statements and so the amounts are fixed each year, but there is a date where we have to affirm
the assessments to, and I don’t know if affirm’s the right word but we have to tell the county
what the assessments will be for the coming year so.
Todd Gerhardt: That’s the date that Paul mentioned in November.
Mayor Furlong: Early November?
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Okay.
Marvin Oman: So and stalling that, it’s the 90 days and there can’t be a 6 month deferral or to
the end of the year deferral to pay it all off?
Todd Gerhardt: That’s up to the City Council. It hasn’t been our past practice to do that. We’ve
used the 90 day but it’s up to the City Council if they’d like to deviate from that. We just try to
stay consistent in how we treat all the residents in the community, but it is up to the City Council
to decide that.
Marvin Oman: Well it’s, I don’t think we’ve had an economy like this before either so I’d like to
just add that particular point that maybe an extra 3 months might not seem a lot to you, but it
might to a lot of the residents to come up with that extra money. Any extra money that a
homeowner can save at this particular time is going to be advantageous not only to them but to
the community I’m sure is, you know for extra money to spend in the community and
whatsoever so I mean, if it’s that big of a deal to add an extra 3 months on it, well then so be it. I
mean that’s what you’ve got to do but I’m sure the residents would appreciate an extra 3 months
to come up with the extra funding.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. We’ll give it consideration. Did you get your answer on the
maintenance schedule?
Marvin Oman: Yeah.
Paul Oehme: And then, I’m sorry. Just his question regarding future maintenance. The city
you know would go through this neighborhood on a future schedule for sealcoating and crack
sealing improvements and pothole patching if necessary as well too so typically 5 to 8 years
we’d like to see a sealcoat just to try to run it with maintenance and try to extend the life of the
overlay as long as we can.
Mayor Furlong: So it will follow the regular city maintenance schedule and that’s where we
expect to achieve the life expectancy?
Paul Oehme: Exactly, right. Yeah, so maybe 2 sealcoats before we need to do another overlay.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. One thing that I would like to make a comment before I know there are
other people who want to speak but I do want to reiterate a comment that Mr. Oehme mentioned
earlier and that is according to our policy practice, any property owners that wish to object to
their assessment here needs to do it in writing prior to us closing the public hearing so I did want
to make that mention and a reminder. But at this point I would invite anyone else. Again let’s
stay with project area #1, which are the names of the streets that I had mentioned before.
Madam, if you’d like to come up at this time.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Marge Johnson: My name is Marge Johnson. I live at 1031 Pontiac Lane and I just did want to
voice my opinion this evening that I do object to the assessment. I just, I think it’s disappointing
to have us being assessed at this time. It’s a burden for quite a few people I’m sure so, and a lot
of the questions I did have, have already been answered so I just wanted to voice my objection to
it.
Mayor Furlong: Again, have you submitted anything in writing at this point?
Marge Johnson: No.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. You want to do that before we close the public hearing if you’re going to
object.
Marge Johnson: Okay. Is there a form I need or anything?
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Knutson?
Roger Knutson: You just need to.
Marge Johnson: Or do you need an email or?
Roger Knutson: No, you have to submit something in writing before, if you want to object and
the purpose of objecting is to take, is to have, challenge the assessment in District Court, you
would have to state your name, property address and the basis for your objection.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Anyone else within the project area #1? This is the Chaparral Court and
Lane, Redwing Court and Lane, Pima Lane, Pontiac Lane, Pontiac Court, Pontiac Curve and
Buckingham Court. Anyone else in those?
Richard B. Brown Sr.: Pontiac Circle.
Mayor Furlong: Pontiac Circle. Thank you. Anyone else on those streets that would like to talk
about this area? If not then let’s move on to project area #2. This is a rural residential area that
includes Lakota Lane, Mandan Circle and Vogelsburg Trail. Anyone that would like to
comment to the council as part of the public hearing under that section? I’d invite you up at this
time please sir.
Jim Pedersen: Jim Pedersen, 10300 Mandan Circle. I was just wondering in project area #2 if
there’s some kind of a future time table for receiving some city utilities in this area?
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Oehme?
Paul Oehme: Sure. Well, the city does have a scheduled extension of our sewer and water plan
and the comp plan that it follows anticipates or projects that by 2015 sewer and water could
potentially be available out here. There’s certain things that have to take place like properties
north of you hooking up and extending their services down farther to this area, but potentially
17
City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
service, the lift stations and the trunk storm sewer, or trunk watermain potentially could be
extended out to this area by 2015 so.
Jim Pedersen: Is it up to Pioneer Trail at this point?
Paul Oehme: It’s not quite on Powers Boulevard. It’s, well no I shouldn’t, water is available at,
on Pioneer Trail by Powers Boulevard. The sewer has not been extended that far south yet so
there has to be a lift station that’d be improved and sanitary sewer would have to be brought up
along Pioneer Trail to this area and down 101.
Jim Pedersen: I guess part of my question is, you know 2009 and now you said something like
2015. If you have a septic system and it’s functioning. It’s not you know in violation or
anything, is there like a time schedule when you wouldn’t have to put a new system in if sewer
and water is coming in the near future?
Paul Oehme: Sure. If trunk sewer system is available to your property, I think it was in 150 feet
our ordinance states that you know you should be required to hook up to that sewer, if it is
available. Now if it’s not available within a reasonable limit or distance from your property, we
would not make you hook up at that time if your septic system is failing. So you always have the
opportunity to improve. If there’s no site for your septic system to replace that septic system in
the future.
Jim Pedersen: Yes I can understand if it’s failing then it would be replaced immediately but if
it’s okay then, I’m kind of thinking in terms of you know if you were to sell your place in the
near future, it always seems like you have to replace your system and if the sewer and water is
coming within a short, relatively short period of time, is that a waiver thing that could be
considered or?
Paul Oehme: Well you’d have to talk to your realtor about that and the building officials to see
what condition your septic system is in but with, you know there’s a lot of things that have to
take place before actually sewer and water would be extended to that area so I mean it potentially
could be available as soon as 2015 but realistically it could be longer than that too.
Jim Pedersen: Okay. Thanks.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else on Lakota Lane, Mandan Circle, or Vogelsburg Trail.
Alex Avedikian: Good evening. My name is Alex Avedikian. I live on 10220 Mandan Circle.
I’d like to just start with a question. Mandan Circle, it says in the paperwork that we got that the
properties either abutting or accessing. Does abutting mean that the property is adjacent to the
street being repaired as opposed to accessing via having a driveway on the street being repaired?
Paul Oehme: It means being basically having a driveway accessing the property.
Alex Avedikian: Okay, so accessing.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Paul Oehme: Right.
Alex Avedikian: Alright so it seems that at least half of the properties that are on Mandan Circle
are not accessed by Mandan Circle. They’re either accessed by Creekwood or they’re accessed
by 101 so my question is, are the remaining homes, the homes that are actually accessed on
Mandan, even though the other homes are benefiting, are we the ones who are only being
assessed?
Paul Oehme: Under this project, yes. Basically as you can see here, these 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
properties on Mandan Circle are proposed to be assessed. There’s 3 properties that are not being
proposed to be assessed because they have access off of a different street. Now when
Creekwood is proposed to be improved, overlaid or reconstructed, these properties up here
would be proposed to be assessed and properties on Mandan Circle would not be proposed to be
assessed. So even though you drive on you know Creekwood to access your property through
that street, you would not be assessed for those improvements so that’s the methodology behind
it.
Alex Avedikian: How is the number for the individual house reached? I mean is it based on the
street? Is it divided by the number of houses?
Paul Oehme: It’s divided by the number of houses and based upon the cost associated with the
improvements.
Alex Avedikian: So if you’re in a sparsely populated area you’re kind of SOL. Yeah, okay. I’m
just, I’d like to register my objection also on the grounds that Mr. Peterson made, he is my
neighbor. He mentioned we are, we’re getting assessed and then in 2015 we’re going to get
assessed again and my septic system is 3 years old because, well actually 4 years old. When I
moved in it was a requirement of the previous owner to bring it up to code and it was working
fine so I got a new septic system so then I’m going to get hit again in 2015?
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, let’s clarify that.
Paul Oehme: Again in 2015 is potentially the date that sewer and water could be extended to this
area. Now will it be extended? I don’t know. It depends upon the market and who wants sewer
and water. The sewer and water really has to be petitioned by the property owners to be
extended down to this area. So the cost for that is born upon by the property owners. Now if
you don’t want it, it’s not going to be extended down so obviously then there’s no assessment.
Alex Avedikian: Theoretically this new street would be torn up for the water?
Paul Oehme: Well yeah, theoretically but again if the property owners out here, it’s more of a
petition for extension of sewer and water. The city does not require or will extend sewer and
water to this area unless the property owners could like to receive it so.
Alex Avedikian: Okay. I have my written objections. Can I just make a brief statement about
my objection?
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Please.
Alex Avedikian: Okay. I’d like to register my objection with the special assessment based on
the legal interpretation of the statutes. According to state statutes the assessment cannot exceed
the amount by which the property benefits from the improvement. I submit that the current
properties receive zero property value benefit from the improvements for the following reasons.
The current conditions of these roads, as you mentioned, Mandan Circle. I don’t know what it
scored but it probably got a 10 because it has, virtually had nothing done since it was built in I
think 1967. The repairs that have been done on them maybe semi, couple times, maybe once
every couple of years. New windows on a burning building. The road has been falling apart.
My children can’t ride their bikes on the street because it’s in such disrepair. The current
condition of these roads has deteriorated to a level of unserviceability that driving on them is
hazardous to a vehicle. This condition currently creates a negative impact to property values.
However getting these roads to acceptable condition is not an improvement. It is an expectation.
According to statues the land must receive special benefit from the improvement being
constructed and restoring functional use is not a special benefit. Therefore this assessment does
not meet our requirements and is an unconstitutional taking. I find it disconcerting that the city
would continue to waste money in my opinion by making incremental repairs every year on
these streets that were effectively falling apart around those repairs. These streets should have
been properly repaired. Properly resurfaced when it was clear that small measures were
insufficient but instead the city did the bare minimum they needed to keep these rural, sparsely
populated areas maintained. We pay as much property taxes as people who live closer to the
city, yet I don’t see other roads in Chanhassen with denser homes that have streets so completely
neglected and I’m guessing that my property taxes help keep their roads in better repair while the
rural roads crumble with neglect. And when it finally comes time to repair the streets the City
comes to us with a tin cup. I find this assessment to not meet the statutes on requirements and if
you pass the assessment I personally intend to appeal it in District Court on the grounds that I’ve
outlined here.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Anyone else in the project 2 area? Lakota Lane, Mandan Circle or Vogelsburg
Trail. Not this evening? Okay. Then we’ll move on to project area #3 which is a commercial
ththth
industrial area. West 78 Street, 77 Street, West 187 Avenue and Quattro Drive. Anyone
here for those streets this evening? No? Okay. Very good. At this time then I’ll make a last
call for anyone that wants to speak at this public hearing on any of these matters or projects. No
one? Last chance. Okay. Is there a motion to close the public hearing.
Councilman Litsey: So moved.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made to close the public hearing. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion?
Councilman Litsey moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded to close the public hearing.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The public
hearing was closed.
Mayor Furlong: Let’s bring it back to council then with questions. Follow-up questions for
staff. Anyone have other questions? Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: I have a question for staff. In fact one gentleman kind of brought it up.
I’m not sure we answered it. It comes down to the scoring that we do for streets and one of his
complaints is that, or one of his suggestions rather was that we ought to let the streets kind of
deteriorate a little bit more. How does the scoring work? I mean right now on most of the ones
in project area #1 they were 50 and below and one of which was a 29. What’s our criteria for,
what score do we get to when we say that’s it? It’s a brand new street.
Paul Oehme: Well a brand new street, Councilman McDonald would be 100 points basically.
So anywhere’s between say 60 and above it’s considered preventive maintenance improvement
where you typically go in and sealcoat the streets and fix the cracks and patch any potholes that
are out there. So anything below say a 60 down to say a 40 or something, that’s more or less a
mill and overlay type of scenario. Basically it’s kind of, you’re throwing your money away if
you want to sealcoat those type of streets because it really doesn’t do any good. Patching the
potholes basically is just, make sure that the driving public can get through but it really does
nothing for structural strength or longevity of the streets. Those potholes typically are going to
reoccur again on this next frost/thaw cycle so, or subsequently down the road and weaker even
more the sub-grade of the street so anything below say a 30 or, 35 or so, I mean that’s, you’re
going to need a total reconstruction area because there’s just so much degradation to the street
surface that you know it doesn’t make sense to go in there and just surface, re-surface the streets.
You really have to get in there and remove most of the, if not all the asphalt and typically some
of the sub-grade is contaminated then. The fines have lost, have gone away in the base material
and the sub-grade has weaken so you basically have to get in there and reconstruct the whole
street then to that level so.
Councilman McDonald: Okay so then in project area #1, we probably don’t have a leeway as far
as putting this off.
Paul Oehme: You know it’s, we’ve pretty much postponed the rehabilitation of this area as long
as we can, in my opinion. There are some areas out here that already, 29 on Chaparral Lane, that
must be an area that’s, has seen significant degradation of the pavement surface. That’s an area I
know that’s been identified for substantial removal and replacement of some of the Class V and
pavement, the full, the pavement in that area so. So those, but that’s area’s got to be dug out but
the rest of the streets are pretty much at the limit of where we’d like to see an overlay done and
more or less if you need to go any farther it kind of transitions into a reconstruction at that point.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Councilman McDonald: Okay so if we were to put this off for a while, I mean right now what
we’re looking at is a 8 year payback I believe on a loan. Within the next 8 years the streets
would need to be probably totally re-done at a cost at least of $6,000 if we go by prior things
with what happened on Laredo because that was a complete dig out and a redo.
Paul Oehme: Right. In my opinion you know that’s what you’re potentially would be looking at
in 8 years and there’s other projects we have in the queue already that we’d like to do in
2010/2011. We probably, this project would be postponed. We probably wouldn’t get to it for at
least another 10 years.
Councilman McDonald: Okay so at least right now if we do it now will we end up saving people
significant funds and money within the next couple of years?
Paul Oehme: It’d be a lot cheaper to do it now than postpone it and incur interest costs on the
construction costs of the road plus the cost for replacement of the road itself.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other questions for staff at this time?
Councilman Litsey: I just had one. On Mandan Circle, tell us the story behind that. Why it got
to be such poor quality, and I know you weren’t here the whole time so I’m just curious. Is it,
you know why has it deteriorated so much?
Mayor Furlong: Well I don’t have the history of that street in front of me right now. I don’t
know if it’s been sealcoated or what the story is there. I know it’s been patched several times
and obviously the patches, pothole patches haven’t held. I know the street is significantly
alligatored and it is popping and I agree with the gentleman that stood up, that it’d be hard to
drive a bicycle on it at this point in time so. I mean in the time that I’ve been here, it has not
been improved upon because we wanted to get the project along with other streets in this area,
basically get done at the same time so tried to save some costs in doing a larger project. There’s
several streets within the city that are near or at that level of condition as well that we’re going to
be hitting. We can’t do all those projects you know, streets in that condition all at one time. It’s
just too expensive so we try to pick them off as best as we can and try and group them up into
specific areas for better project cost and for just scheduling purposes.
Councilman Litsey: I mean that makes sense. I just, to reassure the gentleman that once, if this
project moves forward that you know we’ll stay on top of it and make sure that doesn’t get to
that level again.
Paul Oehme: Yeah. As long as we keep up with you know our sealcoats and crack filling and
crack sealing and preventative maintenance work, we’re going to definitely going to try to stay
up on top of that so.
Councilman Litsey: Okay.
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Todd Gerhardt: Paul when was that street originally put in? In Mandan.
Paul Oehme: I think it was late 60’s, probably early 70’s timeframe.
Audience: About ’67 or ’68.
Paul Oehme: ’68, okay.
Audience: It’s been sealcoated twice.
Paul Oehme: It’s been sealcoated twice so.
Todd Gerhardt: And what’s the life expectancy typically of a street before you go in and?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, and it all depends upon what the sub-base is and everything else but I mean
for this type of, for those type of streets and when those streets were built you know we try to get
20, about 20 years in length so.
Todd Gerhardt: You got 40 years almost out of the street so that’s pretty good. And then to get
a mill and overlay now and get another 20 years. If we can get 60 years of life out of our roads
we’re doing good in this community so.
Audience: Yeah it just seems that we’re forgotten over there. We have yet to get our bike path
in…and we can’t even get our kids to the park up there…because we have to ride along the
highway so you know we’ve got 24 or 30 homes there and we can’t do anything for us.
Paul Oehme: Right, well and I mean 101, that’s not a city street. I just want to make that clear.
We’re working with MnDot and we’re working with the county to try to get that road improved
upon.
Audience: You got a path on Pioneer to get there so I can’t go 4 blocks to get to Pioneer.
Paul Oehme: But again it’s a MnDot street and it’s not our jurisdiction. We’re continually
meeting with them and we’re trying to encourage them to look at us and try to get that road
improved upon as soon as we can so we’re working on that.
Todd Gerhardt: And that’s a key thing when we talk about bringing sewer and water down there
and to have 101 stay in it’s current condition and bring sewer and water and intensify the
development, it just can’t occur in that situation. It needs to be upgraded and at this time MnDot
doesn’t have the funds to turn it back to the county like they’ve done with the segment of 101
north of Lyman up to Highway 5 and we’ve started the preliminary process of going through the
environmental review. First phase would be that segment of, between Lyman and Pioneer and
then the last segment, which is probably going to be the most difficult, is to straighten that road
out as you go down to the Minnesota River valley, and we’re working with Shakopee, Scott
County, Carver County, Eden Prairie, City of Shakopee and Chaska and we’re all trying to say
that this should be a top priority to the State.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Paul Oehme: There’s a lot of work going on behind the scenes in trying to get that section of
road improved.
Alex Avedikian: Can I ask a question regarding the 101?
Mayor Furlong: If you could come back up to the microphone.
Alex Avedikian: Yeah, on 101, at one point in time they talked about turning like Mandan into a
frontage road so.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, I mean you’re talking about the scoping study. That was one of the options
that we looked at. There’s several scenarios that, or alignments that the State, the County looked
at for improvements out there so.
Mayor Furlong: Was that the recommended?
Paul Oehme: No, I don’t think it was. Basically the recommended alignment is to follow the
current alignment as best as you can but improving the alignment and the condition and the sight
distances.
Mayor Furlong: Taking curves out.
Paul Oehme: Taking the curves out as best as you can. Trying to improve it to some level of
standard so. But again you know it’s something that we’re striving for. We’re working on and
you know we hope to have something. We’re encouraging MnDot as best as we can in our
elected officials to get that rolling as soon as we can.
Mayor Furlong: If I can just share something. Upgrading Highway 101 from Lyman Boulevard
down across the river is the council’s number one priority in terms of transportation in this city.
That is something that we have talked to our legislators about. Our county commissioners. They
are 100% behind us. They understand the need. It’s get in the queue is part of it at MnDot and,
but we continue to work with them and remind them every time we see them that this is our
number one priority.
Alex Avedikian: Is there different funding for that? Does that come into some federal funding
or?
Mayor Furlong: You know there are all sorts of different buckets that we’re trying to pursue and
we applied for some grants to get something done and you know committed to making whatever
local matches would be necessary to get it done and you know it’s part of the challenge is, is that
MnDot has an objective priority system where they look at things such as traffic counts,
accidents and a number of other criteria and we’re not, this area isn’t pointing out well in part
because people don’t drive it because it’s not safe to drive. It’s kind of a catch 22 but
nonetheless it’s a challenge. With that being said we’re continuing to work as Paul said, I mean
it’s our number one priority.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Alex Avedikian: Well like you said it’s a catch 22. I mean you’ve got the corner of Halla
Nursery, that has become unserviceable. If any of you have been, we’ve all been on it.
Councilman Litsey: Right.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah.
Alex Avedikian: So you can’t patch it. And by the way the road may have been around for 40
years but it died like 20 ago.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. We’re still at questions. I want council to have an opportunity to ask
staff questions before we start discussing this. Councilwoman Ernst, did you have another
question?
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah. Paul can you expound a little bit on the houses, the surrounding
houses and how they don’t have access to the benefits of the project but yet they’re being
assessed. That, if you could clarify that for me.
Paul Oehme: Well, I’d like to clarify that. Our assessment practices do only assess properties
that have access to the road in question for improvements so if you don’t have a driveway on the
street that’s being improved, you know our practice states that you won’t be proposed to be
assessed for that roadway section. You’ll be posed you know down the road for the street that
they maybe have access to so.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay, so it isn’t that they don’t have access to the roads. It’s just that
they don’t have the drive.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, if they’re not being assessed, but they have frontage on that road you know
they’d be assessed for the street that they have their driveway on.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay.
Paul Oehme: Their main access point.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council members. Those individuals accessing on Creekwood, if we
were going to mill and overlay Creekwood, that’s when they would be assessed for those
improvements. Those people accessing directly out onto State Highway 101 would be assessed
when 101 is upgraded. You would hold a special hearing for that. Very similar to Lake Lucy
Road when we did the mill and overlay there for those individuals that had direct access onto
Lake Lucy got assessed for Lake Lucy Road, which is a collector road but they didn’t pay the
entire cost. They paid what was an equivalent residential mill and overlay cost.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. I guess the only other comment that I had was you know we’ve
heard this time and time again in the last few months and while we’re talking about the state of
the economy and the financial situation that people are in, and first off I want to, I think Paul
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
when you’re bids came, or when you, the cost that you gave us that’s 20% below right? What
the cost came in originally.
Paul Oehme: No. That was our original estimate so they did come in favorably…
Councilwoman Ernst: Below the estimate, I’m sorry. Right.
Paul Oehme: Right so. So yeah I think we did receive favorable bids for a majority of the
projects that were out there.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. And even with that, and I think that that’s great that you were able
to do that. I do think however that if, if council could compromise and really defer for another 3
months for the citizens I think would help them a great deal in the situation that we’re in.
Obviously it’s an extenuating circumstance and it’s not one that you know we talk about this is
typically what we’ve done but we’re not in a typical economy and so I would really like to see
council compromise somewhat on that and defer at least another 3 months if we could. Not to
say that they would have to but give them the option to do that.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Other questions at this point for staff. Mr. Oehme or Mr.
Gerhardt, one of the things that we look at each time is the terms. The 8 years and the interest
rate and in years past we’ve been at 6% but I know rates have come down over the last year and
Mr. Gerhardt we talked about this. With the current rates, if we had to go out and bond for this
project, what do we expect with the city’s classification? Approximately in terms of the
financing costs for this project.
Todd Gerhardt: We would probably sell bonds today, it’d be in the 4% range.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: And then we’d have some additional costs administering the assessments from
an annual basis. For every audit and review which we mark up an additional 1 to 1 ½ percent.
Mayor Furlong: And that’s my recollection. I think last year when we were talking about this
rates were higher than the 4% where they are now.
Todd Gerhardt: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: I can, I’ll bring that into my comments then I guess but I just wanted to clarify
the current rates that we’re looking at. And let me just make sure I got all of the questions that
we have here. As far as new construction. If we have a new development. Those streets, the
property owners through buying their house they don’t pay 40% of the cost of the street but
100% generally, correct?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Does the City pay anything towards a new development of a street
construction?
Paul Oehme: No they don’t. No.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So that’s born by the developer.
Paul Oehme: Yep. And the property owners that purchase those parcels.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Good, thank you. If there are no other questions let’s go ahead
and understand comments. Councilwoman Ernst you made a couple comments there. Anything
else you’d like to add at this time?
Councilwoman Ernst: No. No, not really.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thanks. Other thoughts Councilwoman Tjornhom?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Well once again we’re back at I guess the worst season that as a
council member can be on and that’s road assessments because no one, everyone agrees that the
project needs to be done. It’s just no one knows or wants to agree on how we’re going to pay for
it unfortunately. I guess everyone on the council at some point will be assessed if you live in
Chanhassen. I will be assessed. Councilman Litsey was assessed his first year on the council.
Mayor Furlong: Welcome to the council.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And so it’s a practice that we’ve done in the city now for a while and
I think that’s why our roads are in the condition that they are in. You do drive a lot of
communities and the roads are in pretty bad shape and you wonder you know why isn’t someone
here repairing this and looking out for these roads. I don’t know if you’ve ever driven Vine Hill
to the high school but that is one bumpy road and you wonder where is the county or where is the
City of Shorewood or whoever, you know why aren’t they fixing it and so I think you know we
should be proud of I think our city engineers and I guess our policy in general on how we do
maintain our roads and streets and this is one of the policies. Unfortunately Mandan Circle
obviously got lost in time somewhere and I think we learned a lot with Laredo last year where
that was another street that was damaged way before any of us were on the council and so these
things aren’t always easy but we agree they need to be done and so I think the bids have come in
low again. I think it’s a good time to be doing these projects because of the economy and the
fact that we can probably get a little better pricing on the bids that we let out so I, I certainly
empathize and sympathize with everybody, in every aspect of their lives right now. Nothing
seems very easy but I am in favor of moving ahead with this project and I have to say I’m
probably not in favor of deferring the payments or the billing so be it. Just because it’s been our
practice for years. This is how we do it and I think that the people on Laredo Drive might look
me up and beat me up if I actually said these, you know go ahead. Take an extra 3 months
because it just seems that it’s important to me that we have some consistency, whether it’s a
good economy or a bad economy when it comes to these practices so it’s fair for everybody.
And I just want to put my plug in too that 101, as the mayor said, has been a priority every time
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
we have a strategic initiative session each year, 101 is right there looking at us and we’ve all
driven it and we’ve all heard about it and it is one of those roads that we will continue to be
vigilant on to make sure that it is safe and it is drivable for everyone who lives in the community.
You know another one of those projects is Highway 5 and getting a stop light there. At Lake
Minnewashta Parkway so it’s safe for people to turn, they can make left and right turns and not
have to worry that they’re not going to you know get in an accident and so unfortunately I totally
disagree with MnDot’s practice that you know they rate the project on fatalities. I think that’s
ridiculous that you have to wait for a loved one to die before it becomes a priority to them and I
certainly believe that should be changed, but until that happens I know as I myself, but I could
probably speak for everyone on the council and the city that we will remain vigilant in trying to
get funding for this, for 101.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: I guess I’ve got a couple of questions. Mr. Oehme brought up
something that I think Mr. Gerhardt kind of answered it but whenever we do the assessments,
and I know the question came down to is it in 2010 or when does it happen. If we did a 3 month
extension, does that take us past the point of where we can then put it into the property taxes for
2010? So if we gave a 3 month extension it doesn’t affect our ability to put it on the taxes for
next year?
Todd Gerhardt: No.
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
th
Roger Knutson: You lose control around November 15.
th
Councilman McDonald: On November 15. Okay. And I guess I understand you know why it
was brought up and I can probably be persuaded either way on this. I’m still kind of thinking
about it. I agree with the thing that we should be consistent. If you remember last year it was
also not that great as far as economics and Laredo Drive. Again you know we were consistent
there with what we did. The other question I had was, there was some discussion about the
interest rate. Are we looking at maybe doing something with the 6% or by the time it all gets
added up it’s still at 6% or, I’m a little unclear there.
Mayor Furlong: Well that was one of the things I was going to save for my comments is some
thoughts on that.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, then I’ll wait for that. That’s kind of the only two things I guess.
I mean I’m in favor of going forward with the project because unfortunately if we don’t do it, it’s
going to cost you know 4-5 times more within the next few years to redo the roads and no one
wants to do that either and at that point interest rates will definitely be higher and construction
costs are going to be higher so it’s one of these things that it’s tough to put these things off. I
mean what are we supposed to do? You know come to you in another 2 years and say we can’t
even patch the road anymore. It’s going to be a brand new road and then on top of that now you
do have the problems of looking at sewer and water coming through. What do we end up doing?
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
I mean we’re going to end up assessing you, you know as I say, 4 times that amount. If you’re
unhappy now, you’ll really be unhappy then so I think this from an economic standpoint, this is
probably the best solution that we can do for you. Otherwise yeah, we just don’t do anything and
you can’t get home so we’re all kind of between a rock and a hard place and I think that this is,
you know it’s unfortunately, as Mr. Gerhardt said, we’ve found you. We’ve got to fix the streets.
I don’t see where we have a lot of choice there but I’d like to discuss a little bit more. If there
would be anything else. As I say, I’m open to what the rest of the council has to say on these
other issues.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Sure, Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: In reference to Councilwoman Tjornhom’s comment about Laredo Drive.
Definitely you know that was an expensive project for those people and even since that time I
mean the economy has deteriorated much, much since then and far more people have lost their
jobs, and I mean I can’t think of a better time for us to say you know and I agree, and I think
everybody will probably agree with this is that we do need to move forward with the project but I
just think that if there’s any way that we can help these people in this time would definitely be, I
think not only a benefit to the citizens but saying from the city to the citizens you know, we need
to do this but we’re willing to work with you on it, and it’s not much but it’s a little something.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Mr. Litsey. Thoughts or comments.
Councilman Litsey: Just a couple of thoughts. I guess probably one of the best illustrations of
why we need to move forward with this is the example the gentleman gave about the condition
of the streets in Minneapolis. I think the reason the way they are is because they didn’t have a
good pavement management program to keep up with it so now they’re paying a lot more on the
back end trying to reconstruct those roads when perhaps if they, well if they had moved ahead
with a similar plan that we have, they wouldn’t be in that situation right now. I think we’re
really fortunate to have a city engineer, Paul Oehme who has helped guide us through this
process at the council work sessions where we spend a lot of time talking about our pavement
management program. How to manage that. How to pay for it. How to, what time tables to use
and all that, and I’m really happy with the way that’s all come out and the time that we’ve put
into it is well worth it so that these questions can be answered when they come up in a forum like
this. Hopefully to most people’s at least satisfaction as to why we’re moving forward with this.
I think we need to stay on top of it and if we don’t, the residents are going to really be paying
more later on and so it’s kind of pay some now or pay a whole lot more later. So I think
definitely we need to stay on task here. I think we need to move forward with the plan we have
in place. It’s been well thought out. We’ve had excellent guidance from staff. No one likes to
pay assessments, as we kidded about my gift for being elected to the council is my road being
assessed the first year but I’m glad you know that the city went ahead with it because it definitely
improved it and if they stay on top of it, it’s going to last for many more years and put off my
having to pay more down the road so. I think probably, I don’t know personally if putting off for
an additional 3 months is going to be that much of a help to people in terms of their ability to
pay. Perhaps looking at the interest rate, because I think if people are going to have trouble
paying, again I don’t know that 3 months is really going to help. It’s probably more, they’re
probably more apt to actually have the city carry the financing of it and maybe looking at how
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
we derive the interest rate would actually potentially be more beneficial to people than deferring
it just for 3 months so. Because I’d like to stay too consistent with our past practices but I think
interest rates certainly can be taken a look at because those do fluctuate and when it went
through on my road, 6% but back then that’s what the prevailing rate was and I have to live with
that. I’m not asking that that be taken a second look at but now we have an opportunity to do
this so that would be my, I’d be in favor of taking a look at it.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. I agree with a number of the comments that were made up
here with regard to these types of projects. The criteria that I look at when we’re looking at
street improvements, the first criteria is does it need to be done. I mean are we doing something
that’s needed or are we doing something because have money in a budget and we’ve arbitrarily
picked some streets and now we’re going to do it because that’s what we do. The answer since
I’ve been up here, we haven’t taken that later course. We have looked at streets in our city that
need to be done and we assess it multiple ways. The first is with the pavement management
system, as we talked about. It’s an objective measure. We look at one-third of our streets every
year so over a 3 year period every street is assessed and that’s a rolling analysis to determine
quality because the streets deteriorate at different rates, especially based upon the age. Earlier
this year when we were looking at these, all these different neighborhoods and the, we had a
number of residents that are here this evening as well as others coming in and talking to us. One
question that we heard over and over again is that these need to be done. If you’ve driven on
these roads, which I have, you can visually confirm the objective assessment that we saw earlier.
Some council members I think appropriate made the comment that if we don’t do it now, it’s
going to cost a lot more for everybody later. Both the residents in terms of their 40% share of
the cost, as well as the city. All the city taxpayers in terms of their 60% share of the cost. So
it’s, it’s never a good time to have to pay for a project but for something like this, this is the right
time to do it. It’s the right time because at this point in time for a lower percentage of what the
cost would be to fully reconstruct these streets at some point in the not too distant future when
they’d be ready, it is the most economical time to do it, and that’s where that balance is. Is it,
does it need to be done and can we do it in a fair manner for all costs. Are the allocations being
considered fairly? I think here they are. We’re being consistent with our past practices of which
properties are included and which are excluded and how that assessment is being applied to the
different properties. We have looked at each and every year I think we’ve looked at different
methods. We always seem to come back to the same method which is a per property type of
allocation for the total cost. And then the other thing I look at is, are we doing what’s necessary
and not more and here again I think the answer is yes. We’re doing mills and overlays as
opposed to total reconstructions. Some of the streets, especially in the project 1 area, I think if
we waited for a little bit, we’d see a lot of those streets in the not too distant future fall into a full
construction area and then we would need to do a full construction, but we’re not doing a full
construction early. Before it’s needed to be done. We’re doing what’s necessary, not more so I
think in terms of the projects it makes sense to go forward now. I’m glad to hear the rest of the
council agree with that and while there’s some disagreements among the residents, I fully
appreciate that. As we look at not only these streets but the other streets that we already have
planned for to be reconstructed or mills and overlays, the ongoing assessment that we’re doing,
we’re picking these off one by one. Moving forward. Catching up but more importantly getting
done what needs to be done based upon what we see out there, so I think it makes sense to go
forward with all three of these projects. With regard to the financing of it, I raised the question
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
about the interest rate. At 4%, which would be the city’s borrowing cost now, that is below what
it was a year ago and even 2 years ago. Our costs that we’ve done in the past is applied to 1% or
1 ½% on top of that. It’s been right around 6%. I think last year it was in the high 5’s and so we
just stayed at 6 but I think it’s getting far enough away where it does make sense for us to look at
it and I would support going to a 5 or 5 ½ percent interest rate. In large part, and I think if
anybody comes back and says well I paid 6%. You know why are they getting 5 and 5 ½? Well
the answer is if interest rates come back and our borrowing costs turn out to be 6%, trust me as a
council we’re not going to be extending that at the same time because there is added cost.
Likewise the purpose here is not to be the banker of choice. This is a, an available financing
option to our residents but if they can find a better alternative, whether through a home equity
line or other sources of financial sources, feel free to do that. The purpose here is to provide an
alternative rather than paying in full so it’s not our goal, and it would never be my, I would never
advocate that we try to be you know as low as possible and encourage people to do this. This is
an option that’s available so I would propose to the council that we look at you know 5-5 ½
percent and if we wanted to go 5 ½, I think that’s certainly fine. If we want to go down to 5 or 5
¼, if you want to split the difference, it more 1 ¼ above but I think we can certainly do
something there, and that’s probably over the long run going to help as much. If the council, if
the majority of council wanted to extend that, I would hesitate going out a full 3 months because
that is going to put pressure on city staff. We’re getting closer to that deadline. You know a
month or two, I could live with that but again what, I don’t know what we’re buying there.
Maybe for a couple property owners it might, that 1 or 2 months might help but I think the
majority of property owners, taking a look at the interest rate is probably a better way to do it.
It’s something that I believe is fair and can be followed consistently going forward as well,
which is to follow our rates at 1 or 1 ½ percent above the prevailing market rate so that would be
my thought as a way to seek a balance between the funding and the cost of the funding as well.
So Mr. Litsey you talked about interest rates. Any thoughts on that or?
Councilman Litsey: I think you’re right on. I think that’s, you know we’ll take a look at what
our costs are and it’s a percent, percent and a half more and yeah, I’m comfortable with
anywhere in that range. I think that’s going to provide people better relief than 2 or 3 months. I
just don’t see where that’s going to make a whole lot of difference. This really will if they
choose to finance it through us over the long term.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And I agree with that. I think it’s a fair way to look at it at this point,
giving them a little, taking a little pressure off because I think a lot of people will be going to
payments and not lump sum so this is benefiting a lot more people by doing that. I think it’s a
good idea.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Any other thoughts or comments? Is there a preference at 5 or 5 ½? Mr.
McDonald?
Councilman McDonald: Do we know enough at this point what our costs are as far as the city? I
would say it’s based upon that. I’m not sure if I know what that number is. If it’s a full point or
a point and a half but whatever that add on administrative point would be.
Mayor Furlong: What did you say, and you checked with Ehlers and Associates?
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, and you know it’s based on this size I would think the 5% would be fine
and we’ll cover our costs on that. I don’t see a problem.
Mayor Furlong: I think that makes sense.
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Anything else? If not we have a motion by resolution, and does this
resolution adopt the assessment roll as well as approve the project?
Roger Knutson: You’ve already previously approved the project but this adopts the assessment
roll.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Does this also, what about accepting bids? Does this resolution accept
the bids as well? Or is that a separate?
Paul Oehme: …that’s a second resolution.
Mayor Furlong: A second resolution.
Todd Gerhardt: So we’re going to need two motions?
Mayor Furlong: Well the proposed motion at the beginning of the packet which would have
accepting the bids and awarding the contract. Adopt the assessment roll.
Roger Knutson: You can move both resolutions together if you choose to.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. And I think the only proposed change would be to modify, as we’ve
discussed here, modify the percentage rate in item 2 on the resolution to 5%. Would somebody
like to make a motion?
Councilman McDonald: Where are you reading?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: It’s right here.
Councilwoman Ernst: I can make it. Is it like part of the second one?
Mayor Furlong: It would be, if you want to make a proposed motion in the staff packet, just
reference the second item on the resolution that we’re adopting to read 5%.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay so.
Mayor Furlong: This is adopting the assessment roll.
Councilwoman Ernst: So we have to accept the bids too though right?
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Yep. I would just start reading.
Councilwoman Ernst: So I make a motion that we accept the bids and awards of contract, award
the contract for the 2009 Street Improvement Project, City Project 09-01 to Chard Tiling and
Excavating, Incorporated for $943,124.90. Are they all in one?
Mayor Furlong: Keep going. Yep, keep going.
Councilwoman Ernst: I also make a motion that we adopt the assessment roll for the 2009 Street
Improvement Project, City Project 09-01 at 5% interest.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, and adopt the resolution.
Councilwoman Ernst: And adopt the resolution at 5% interest. And amending the.
Mayor Furlong: Yep. Paragraph 2 to 5%.
Councilwoman Ernst: Interest rate at 5% interest.
Mayor Furlong: Great, thank you. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any discussion or request for clarification? Okay, very
good. Seeing no discussion, no further discussion we’ll proceed with the vote.
Resolution #2009-38: Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded to
adopt the assessment roll for the 2009 Street Improvement Project, City Project 09-01
amending paragraph 2 to read 5% interest. All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Resolution #2009-39: Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded
that the City Council accept the bids and award the contract for the 2009 Street
Improvement Project, City Project 09-01 to Chard Tiling and Excavating, Inc. for
$943,124.90. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you everyone and thank you for your comments and participating in this.
Timeline, Mr. Oehme, when can people expect construction, to see construction begin?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, we’re going to visit with the contractor here in the next week or two and
we’ll begin the schedule. I’m anticipating starting in the Pontiac Circle area but I don’t know
that for sure. We will definitely get notices out to the property owners as soon as we have a
preliminary schedule from the contractor so.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Mayor Furlong: And with that information such as calling hot lines and maybe just two minutes
on what residents can expect during the construction…notification.
Paul Oehme: Right, I mean we’ll give them the contact means and number for city staff. The
cell numbers, those type of things. Last year we had a hot line they could call in and there’d be a
recorded message on what’s going on that day and that week in your particular neighborhood so
we’re anticipating starting that up again this year so there’ll be several resources for information.
There might, there might be some door hangings that we go out on specific locations if the curb
is being ripped out in your driveway. You know in front of your driveway for a short period of
time just to let you know about those interruptions as well too so.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Very good.
Paul Oehme: And then with those notices we’ll definitely get out the revised information as well
to the property owners so they can make their plans as needed.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Very good. Again thank you everyone. We appreciate your
participation in the process. Let’s move on now to the next item in our agenda.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDER APPLICATION FOR A JUSTICE ASSISTANCE
GRANT (JAG) PROGRAM FOR POLICE SERVICES AND EQUIPMENT.
Mayor Furlong: There will be a public hearing associated with this item as well so let’s go to
staff report please.
Laurie Hokkanen: Mayor, council. This item is to consider an application for dollars that were
made available through the federal stimulus program. Chanhassen has been…eligible to apply
for the $11,996 amount. Staff is proposing that we would apply for those funds for use in
augmenting our overtime program. The program provides the funding up front. We then have 4
years to use the funding as you see fit over those 4 years and then provide…documentation to
the…agency. And we would like to hold a public hearing to consider the public input on the
proposed use of these funds.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Is there any questions for staff before we open up the public
hearing?
Councilman Litsey: The one stipulation is we can’t supplant what’s existing one, right? So this
would be addition. From my perspective one of the good things that would actually provide
additional overtime over and above what we’ve already planned.
Laurie Hokkanen: And the nice thing is that you do not have to specify up front what that use
will be so the things that will come up over the next 4 years that are unforeseen, we’ll be able to
use the funds for.
Councilman Litsey: Right, if there’s a specific problem you want to target or something.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. We will open up the public
hearing and invite any interested party to come forward and address the council on this matter.
No one this evening? Okay, without objection then we’ll close the public hearing and bring it
back to council for discussion. So I guess the question I have from a budgetary standpoint, does
this obligate us to spend additional funds or to maintain spending that we otherwise might want
flexibility with?
Laurie Hokkanen: No. One of the goals with this grant and why we did this specific category, it
doesn’t require any local match…funding level.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. So it’s available for extra needs if they occur.
Laurie Hokkanen: Right.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilwoman Ernst: And I’m sorry, Laurie did you say we need to use that over a period of 4
years?
Laurie Hokkanen: Yes. And we can choose to use it all in one year or over the 4 and we can
determine that as time goes on.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Any other discussion? If not is there a motion to approve?
Councilman Litsey: Make a motion. Oh, we have to close the public hearing right.
Todd Gerhardt: We’ve got to open the public hearing. Take comments.
Mayor Furlong: I did.
Councilman McDonald: We did.
Mayor Furlong: I think I opened it.
Councilman Litsey: Didn’t you hear all the people?
Todd Gerhardt: No I didn’t. Sorry.
Mayor Furlong: The big question is, Nann did you hear the proposed hearing. Our recorder
back there. I believe the public hearing has been opened and without objection was closed.
Todd Gerhardt: Sorry.
Mayor Furlong: Nope that’s fine. So Councilman Litsey, would you like to make a motion?
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Councilman Litsey: Sure I’ll make a motion that the City Council approve the application for
the Justice Assistance Grant Program in the amount of $11,966.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilman McDonald: I’ll second.
Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any discussion?
Councilman Litsey moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the City Council approve
the application for the Justice Assistance Grant Program in the amount of $11,966. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Councilman Litsey: Just wanted to thank Laurie for all your work on these grants.
Laurie Hokkanen: I’m not done yet. I still need a CCR number or CCA.
Councilman Litsey: I can help you with that.
Laurie Hokkanen: Okay.
Councilman Litsey: I’ve got mine. For South Lake anyway so, it’s kind of like running the
gauntlet isn’t it?
Laurie Hokkanen: It is.
Councilman Litsey: Trying to get all this stuff together.
Mayor Furlong: That completes our items of business this evening under public hearings and
unfinished and new business.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS:
Mayor Furlong: Thoughts or comments? Just a couple quick things. Some of the council may
have heard these, others not but I want to make sure. Tomorrow I’ll be giving a presentation to
the Southwest Chamber of Commerce. Tomorrow morning at breakfast. The public is invited. I
believe they still, if they don’t have tickets yet they can buy them at the door, is that correct?
Laurie Hokkanen: $15 at the door.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, and that will be held at the American Legion?
Laurie Hokkanen: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, good thing I know where I’m going.
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City Council Meeting - April 27, 2009
Laurie Hokkanen: 7:30 a.m.
Mayor Furlong: 7:30 a.m. tomorrow morning. And then prior to the morning actually of I think
th
our next council meeting on May 11 I’ll be having my annual breakfast with, at the senior
center discussing some of the same points I’ll be discussing tomorrow but to our senior group so
that’s always a well attended event and people can still get tickets for that I assume as well.
Laurie Hokkanen: They can.
Mayor Furlong: And would they contact?
Laurie Hokkanen: Sue Bill. 227-1134.
Mayor Furlong: Great. Thank you very much. Anything else? Any other council
presentations?
Councilwoman Ernst: I guess the only comments I have is that it’s good to see that you had such
a quick recovery. Very fast so I was really impressed. You must be really healthy.
Mayor Furlong: Well you’re on the safe side of the swinging arm here so.
Councilman Litsey: Notice I kept my distance.
Mayor Furlong: I will take one more personal privilege and the late hour of 9:00 wish my
th
youngest daughter Mary a happy 5 birthday this evening. We got to open presents today and I
stopped by home this afternoon and she was dressed up in her princess outfit, complete with
crown and shoes. She is ready for her party this weekend, but if she’s listening she better get to
bed so, it’s 9:00. Mr. Gerhardt, any discussion items?
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
Todd Gerhardt: The only item I have is that we’re probably going to start breaking ground for
the public works building this week, weather permitting so pretty excited about that. Getting that
project off the ground and start seeing some activity behind the recording studio there so, that’s
all I have.
Mayor Furlong: Any questions for Mr. Gerhardt or his staff? No? Very good.
CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION:
None.
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman McDonald seconded to adjourn the meeting. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City Council
meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim
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