CC Minutes 2001 10 08CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 8, 2001
Mayor Jansen called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the
Flag.
COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Jansen, Councilman Ayotte, and Councilman Peterson
COUNCILMEMBERS ABSENT: Councilman Labatt and Councilman Boyle
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Roger Knutson, Todd Hoffman, Sharmin A1-Jaff, Bruce DeJong,
and Teresa Burgess
PUBLIC PRESENT FOR ALL ITEMS:
Debbie Lloyd
Janet & Jerry Paulsen
David Happe
Paul Sjogren
Duane Paul
David Sebold
Blake Gottschalk
Roger Hamm
7302 Laredo Drive
7305 Laredo Drive
604 Summerfield Drive
7490 Tulip Court
7508 Tulip Court
7470 Tulip Court
2197 Majestic Way
2180 Brinker Street
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded to approve the
following consent agenda items pursuant to the city manager's recommendations:
Resolution #2001-63: Approve Amendment No. 2 to Cooperative Construction Agreement No.
80068 for West 78th Street/TH 5 Improvement Project 97-6.
b. Approve Street lighting Contract for Century Boulevard, Project 97-1C.
c. Approve Certificate of Compliance for Highlands on Lake St. Joe, Project 93-31.
Call for Assessment Hearings for Crestview Circle, Century Boulevard, BC-7 & BC-8 Trunk
Sanitary Sewer Improvements, TH 5 Improvements and Quinn Road.
Approve Amendment to City Code Clarifying that a Two-Thirds Majority Vote of the City Council
is Required to Rezone Parcels.
h. Approval of Bills.
Approval of Minutes:
- City Council Work Session Minutes dated September 24, 2001
- City Council Minutes dated September 24, 2001
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Receive Commission Minutes:
- Planning Commission Minutes dated September 18, 2001
j. Approval of Designating Southern LRT Trail as a Snowmobile Trail.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously 3 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: UPDATE ON ROUNDHOUSE RENOVATION PROJECT,
DEANNA BUNKLEMAN.
Public Present:
Name Address
Michael Howe
Ed Kling
Deanna Bunkelman
2169 Stone Creek Trail
4169 Red Oak Lane
4191 Red Oak Lane
Deanna Bunkelman: Hi. Deanna Bunkelman, 4191 Red Oak Lane.
Mayor Jansen: Thanks for joining us.
Deanna Bunkelman: Thank you. Here to give an update on the round house restoration project. And I
have too prepared comments because I have a lot to say so I just want to make sure I say it all. Although
I'd rather not talk about this, I feel I need to state it for the record. When I was here in late April my
mother-in-law was on the upswing once again with her ongoing 7 year battle with cancer. She had just
been released from the hospital after a one month stay, and this time was worst than others. They actually
had read her her last words and had started to prepare her for her last days but once again she pulled
through. She's been battling it for 7 years so. However, in early May she went downhill again and was
put in hospice care until her death in July.
Mayor Jansen: We're sorry to hear that.
Deanna Bunkelman: Thank you. And then closer to home my 4 year old son was battling an illness that
started with whooping cough symptoms to double ear infections, a sinus infection and an awful cough that
made us afraid to go to bed at night not knowing if we'd make it through the night. And this lasted for the
month of July and August until he was actually diagnosed with serious allergies and asthma that we now
have under control. So as you can see I did not have the opportunity to devote a lot of time to the round
house this past summer as I had hoped, although it was on my mind a lot.
Mayor Jansen: You've had a rough summer.
Deanna Bunkelman: Yes. So I just want it for the record to let you guys know.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you.
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Deanna Bunkelman: I had definitely intended when I left the meeting in April to devote time to it but
unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity. But I do want to let you know what we have done, because we
have done some stuff. We've had a rendering drawing done according to the original restoration plans from
the architect. And I don't know if other than putting it right here for you to see. This is actually what the
round house currently looks like.
Mayor Jansen: We actually have our monitors so you would be able to set it down, although the big screen
isn't working.
Deanna Bunkelman: Can you get it in? Oh, in your monitors.
Mayor Jansen: Yes, and it would be broadcast also, though the audience can't see it.
Deanna Bunkelman: Okay. This is what the round house looks like today, as I'm sure you're well aware.
And everybody can see that?
Mayor Jansen: Yes.
Deanna Bunkelman: Okay.
Mayor Jansen: And you're certainly welcome to pass those around if you'd like for the audience.
Deanna Bunkelman: I apologize for getting them more smaller. I thought it would be.
Mayor Jansen: No, no, that's okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: And can you guys see this one okay?
Mayor Jansen: Certainly, yep.
Deanna Bunkelman: This is actually according to the plans that were drawn by the architect. This is a
rendering drawing that is showing what the round house would look like according to those plans and what
we would like to carry forward and have the opportunity to restore it to. If you have any questions about
that, by all means you can let me know.
Todd Hoffman: Someone in your group prepared these for you?
Deanna Bunkelman: Actually someone in our neighborhood does this for a living and so he has done this
for us free of charge.
Councilman Ayotte: And did it free?
Deanna Bunkelman: And did it free of charge. Yes. And actually I have two copies of this, just to kind
of give you a feel. There's actually going to be cedar shakes on the roof and so this would show what the
cedar shakes would look like at probably after a year or two because as you know cedar shakes, they do
change color. This is more what the roof would look like. It has the cedar shakes on and what the original
plan was to actually restore the siding to just do a natural finish. It is I think Douglas Fir or Norway Fir so
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
we weren't sure exactly what it would look like. So this is just showing you again exact same building
structure, just different color.
Mayor Jansen: Well it's wonderful someone was able to prepare those for you. Thank you for sharing
those.
Deanna Bunkelman: Yep. We've started to also make contact with the local universities, technical
colleges, contractors, architects and carpenters to check into their volunteer programs and at this point
there have been no cost to the city. Everything we've done has been free of charge. I feel that I left the
City Council meeting a bit naive last time, but optimistic and I'm hoping to leave this meeting still
optimistic but not quite so naive. I feel that Chanhassen should feel blessed that Ben Lane brought this
wonderful and interesting piece of... The City has sat on this for the past 6 years but now expects a group
of volunteers to mm it around within less than a year. If given ample time and the opportunity we're
looking for minimal money from the city in hopes for donations from local businesses and people, but this
takes time. Over the summer I had 3 colleagues visit me from the Maple Grove, Plymouth and Buffalo
area. They're all similar in age to myself. Without any prompting or discussion about the round house,
they all wanted to know the history and background of the building. They were very enthusiastic and
curious about the structure, only for me to tell them the little that I know so that's just showing you how
people, they come to the area and they're just curious about what the building is all about. Everyone looks
at the round house through different eyes. Some see the dollars signs and what it's going to cost to make it
presentable. Others just see what they call an eyesore, and others like myself see an opportunity to restore
history. I'm very curious about it's origin. What railroad did it serve because it actually was a water
tower on a railroad? Was it here in Minnesota, the Midwest? Where actually was it? This thing was put
up in the late 1940's here in Chanhassen. At this point we don't know where it originally came from and I
think given the opportunity it would be fascinating to find that out. I personally really have no ties to the
round house. I've only lived in the Chanhassen area for the last 3 ½ years so I'm not doing this because
I've lived in the area and grew up. I'm just doing it because I just find it fascinating and just the history
behind it and I think it would just be a big asset for Chanhassen to have. To recap, all we would like is
ample time and the opportunity to restore the round house. We see it as an opportunity to not only make
the building functional for our city but also as a way to restore history. We would also like an explanation
of the perceived urgency we feel in doing so since we do not see any financial burden to the city in it's
current state. Thanks for the opportunity to once again address you with this effort.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you. Appreciate that. Any questions for Deanna while we have her at the podium
council?
Councilman Ayotte: With respect to, the only thing that I think is of immediate concern. We had lead
based paint. It's chipping. I understand that the internal degradation has been stopped. We got a cover on
the roof and so forth so is it true that the only thing that we have a concern about is the continued chipping
of lead based paint on the exterior?
Mayor Jansen: I think that's probably more a staff question versus.
Councilman Ayotte: Whoever.
Deanna Bunkelman: I believe so but...
Mayor Jansen: Well, you're looking for a technical versus the volunteer aspect.
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Todd Hoffman: The report we had talked about the lead in paint on the exterior of the building... I believe
we talked about the possibility of putting a fence around it to guard against any ingestion. It's a long shot
to think that we would have that occurring, but it is a park and a playground so you know in the short term
here to put a fence up around it I think would be something that the council should consider. The inside has
been dried out. We put a tarp on the top of it and it's really not hurting anything.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Answer to your question councilman?
Councilman Ayotte: Not really but I'll deal with staff after the fact. With respect to actually starting to
get some activities going, our manager has made some comments. Work plan. Project Schedule. So on
and so forth. Can you talk towards that on what's going to happen when and obviously with the winter
coming upon us, I suspect you won't see any actual activity on the round house until the spring?
Deanna Bunkelman: Yeah, our number one goal at this point, especially over the winter months would be
contacting the businesses to get donations. What our goal is to try to do this with minimal dollars from the
city. You know whatever donations we can get, we're going to try to get. I know in April I had talked
about the park that was built in Excelsior. In the Excelsior Commons area. We do have the contact of the
person that actually led that effort. That was completely by donations and volunteer so we're going to try
to get that individual on board. We also have names of other individuals that they go out and get a lot of
donations so we're hoping that that's what we're going to do over the summer months. So as far as a
budget, I don't know if we'd be able to come with a budget by November 12th. We can definitely come
with a project plan with deadlines and things that we're going to try to hit as far as the different contacts
we're going to make and have a target date for all the different contacts and donations. But again budget
wise I'm not sure if we'll have that by November 12th.
Mayor Jansen: So as far as the different items that the city manager listed, do you feel that you could sit
down with staff and work through this as far as giving them a better idea, realizing that you lost your
summer as far as doing some of this preparation. It's really just the minimal planning, I would say that
they're looking for to see what kind of an effort you can actually bring together. Obviously you're going to
need a tremendous amount of labor and whether or not you'll be able to mount that effort from out of the
neighborhood. Do you feel that at this point you would have the time to be able to dedicate to that to
provide that information by the 12th?
Deanna Bunkelman: So just come up with a work plan or what are you referring to?
Mayor Jansen: Do you have the staff report by any chance? Okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: I forgot to bring it up.
Mayor Jansen: That's okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: Yeah, the work plan with the details of the scope from the start to completion. Part of
the work plan I believe we can do. As far as the budget, I'm not sure, or the subcontractor list because
again we're trying to contact people to find out how many people we can get as a volunteer.
Mayor Jansen: Sure. Do you have a...of the materials that, do you have a feel for the materials that you
need yet?
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Deanna Bunkelman: As far as the materials we need, yes. But as far as whether they're going to be
completely donated, no.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: We do have contacts at some of the window manufacturers and we do plan to try to
get donations for the windows. And we do have contacts with some of the local lumber companies.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: So if anything we could probably contact them and maybe get a rough estimate.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: The project schedule, we could probably do something with that. The commitment,
we can definitely list out a bunch of project team volunteers because we do have quite a few volunteers
already. And then the deadline, we can work towards some of this but I can't promise that we'd have it all
done because again I don't feel like I could give you a good budget at this point without knowing how many
donations we're going to raise and who's going to do what.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Because I think largely the concern is that as you stated in your opening, the project
has really been under consideration by the city back and forth for 6 years. And our wanting to just at least
bring it to some sort of, if not conclusion, more definite planning so that as you've got your schedule put
together and people, and we can see the commitment coming together, then at least we can see that there's
some progress that's being made. We hear looking for another year extension and is it feasible? I don't
think we're convinced yet that it's feasible and that's what you'll initially be getting your arms around and
we had hoped to maybe be able to take a look at by now is whether or not it is. And I'm sure we all
understand the difficulties that you had as far as this obviously not being a priority. It couldn't be but we
certainly recognize that you care about it enough and you're coming back to it and wanting to put that
commitment in. I'm curious, when you were here previously you had a co-coordinator. Do you still have
the co-coordinator?
Deanna Bunkelman: Yes. He's here tonight.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Okay, great. That's Ed Kling correct?
Ed Kling: Yes.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, great. So just looking to see that you can actually maybe pull some of this
information together I think would be a positive to all of us. At this point we don't have anything to take a
look at as far as whether or not the project is feasible to continue to move it forward, let alone give it a year
extension.
Deanna Bunkelman: Okay. Now what is the, do you have budget planning in November and December
that is that why the November 12th date is there? I guess I'm not sure the November 12th date.
Mayor Jansen: Mr. Gerhardt.
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Todd Gerhardt: Picked out of the air.
Deanna Bunkelman: Oh, I don't like those air things.
Todd Gerhardt: I just wanted to try to get some closure on it before winter came is why I picked the
November first.
Deanna Bunkelman: And why?
Todd Gerhardt: Why? I just wanted to make sure that we had some direction on this before winter came.
Deanna Bunkelman: But I guess I'm trying to understand why before winter. What's magical about
winter?
Mayor Jansen: I would venture to say that if anything it's more in response to the council wanting to have
a better feel for whether or not this is feasible. I'm hearing that there's flexibility in that date, but we
would like to put some sort of an end date or an expectation date on there for you.
Deanna Bunkelman: And exactly, I'm fine with the target date. I just wondered, you know it's a month
out and you know depending on what your expectations are, I can give you something by November 12th
but I'm not sure it's going to be to the extent of what you want. So we can leave that November 12th there
and I can give you what I have by that point. It's just that, it might not be quite as extensive as you might
be looking for. Especially around the budget. That's the bigger piece.
Councilman Ayotte: Well what would be an appropriate date where you would have a rougher manager
budget?
Deanna Bunkelman: ... going to be interesting because the budget to me, I said the budget is going to be
interesting because the whole budget, I suppose we can scope it out and figure out how much it's going to
cost but for how much we are expecting the city to pay it really going to be based on the donations that we
receive so.
Councilman Ayotte: That's fine. If based on your, I personally would like to see, based on the approach
that you would like to see, what you believe it would cost and what are the assumptions that you go into the
project with.
Deanna Bunkelman: Okay, that's fair.
Councilman Ayotte: If we can see numbers and then from that standpoint if you could put some reference
as to what you think is realistically attainable by the community, at least it gives us an idea of what we
have to go towards for at least a budgetary. I mean we've got to have something. What would be a date
then?
Deanna Bunkelman: Okay. If we work this, and I do this at work all the time so I'm assuming that I'm
just coming up with a high level estimate. It's somewhat, some of it's going to be pulling out of the air
because that's what we do. Then that's fair.
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Mayor Jansen: But as far as the budget goes, and as far as the city's concerned, we've already designated
the dollar amount that the city will contribute to and that total was $40,000 and we've spent 15 so we're at
the 25. As far as the budget number, I think more the concern is that you have a handle on exactly what
this project is really going to amount to and again coming back to you really need to see if it's feasible.
Deanna Bunkelman: Oh exactly.
Mayor Jansen: And if anything, what Mr. Gerhardt has outlined here is the same information that we
would move forward with on any project and it would help you then in analyzing whether this is the type of
project that can actually be achieved in a volunteer effort.
Deanna Bunkelman: Right, that's fair.
Todd Gerhardt: I guess I was using that this work was supposed to be done this summer so I would have
assumed that you had estimates and everything else completed. I mean you should be able to compile this
information fairly quickly. And if you haven't, that would give you a good indication if this is a project
that you still want to try to tackle. With the constraints that the council's put on your financially, have you
looked at seeing can you raise that money in the neighborhood or through donations or through brick sales
or whatever or however you're trying to decide how you're going to fund this thing. I mean to think that
you're just going to start thinking about that now is really kind of late in the game I would say.
Deanna Bunkelman: And we've been thinking about it all along.
Todd Gerhardt: Okay.
Deanna Bunkelman: That's why we've been contacting the universities and the colleges and just all the
resources that are out there as far as the different programs that they have.
Mayor Jansen: I think maybe summarizing some of that effort would be helpful for staff to be able to see
exactly the progress that you are making. And maybe be able to give some input to that but then as you're
pulling together your materials and being able to see if you can get some of that donated, I think is also an
important step. Councilman Peterson, did you have any questions or comments for Deanna?
Councilman Peterson: No. I think the real issue is already summarized. You have to really look inside
yourself and your group, can you raise enough money because we're already formally said we're only
going to spend this much money so if you can tell us that chances are we can't raise that money, then it's
better for the community to take it down. So I mean that's why part of the reason why we're pushing you a
little bit harder because it is better that if there's a 2% chance that you can get the money then we should
take it down and move ahead with other alternatives for that site. So again we're optimistic we want to
make it happen, but within those parameters.
Deanna Bunkelman: Yep.
Mayor Jansen: And we don't want to send you away discouraged. We certainly understand that you need
time to pull these things together and it will take you time, but I think just maybe being able to come in and
share with the city manager, Mr. Gerhardt what progress you have made and what the plans are and again
it can be more of a joint effort to see if everybody is on track as to where we're going and what we can
accomplish.
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Deanna Bunkelman: Okay.
Mayor Jansen: Any other questions for us?
Deanna Bunkelman: I don't think so. Do you have Ed? No.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Councilman Ayotte: Thanks a lot.
Councilman Peterson: Thank you.
Mayor Jansen: Appreciate that. Is there anyone else, while we're talking about this that would like to
make any comments? I would just ask that we maybe hold those to 5 minutes or less. I would certainly be
willing to open up the microphone. Okay. Otherwise I'll bring this back to council. Comments and
direction on this project.
Councilman Peterson: I think the city manager's recommendation is succinct.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Councilman Ayotte?
Councilman Ayotte: No other comments Mayor.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. I too would support the manager's recommendation on this and just ask that the
community volunteers pull together that information. Again Deanna we certainly appreciate the effort that
you're putting in and thank you for bringing in those renditions. It's encouraging to see what that building
could potentially look like were the project to be able to go ahead as you would like to see this happen, so
thank you. With that, Mr. Gerhardt do you need a motion on this or do you have clear direction?
Todd Gerhardt: No.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Thank you. So moving on on the agenda. Under public hearings we have vacation
of a driveway easement.
Conrad Fiskness: Could I make visitor presentation?
Mayor Jansen: Oh, I'm sorry. Certainly.
Conrad Fiskness: Mayor Jansen, Council members. I'm Conrad Fiskness representing the Riley-
Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District here tonight of which I'm president and also the representative
for Carver County.
Mayor Jansen: Welcome.
Conrad Fiskness: Thank you.
Mayor Jansen: Sorry I moved ahead so quickly.
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Conrad Fiskness: You've got work to do. Following up with the discussion I had with Mr. Gerhardt and
Ms. Haak at the tour last month I promised him that I would do what it took to start getting the petition that
the city submitted to us for the basic water management project that came out of the Bluff Creek Task
Force. And just to recap for I think some of the people here, or probably any of you weren't even around
when that all transpired. That corridor study took place in the mid 90's and there was a petition received
from the city on June 4th of '97, which at that time the city signed it, requesting us to go ahead and prepare
the feasibility study for this project. Turned out to be a fair amount of work. The work that was done for
the city in preparation for that task force covered a lot of land use and that type of decision but there was a
lot of hydrology work that had to be done for us to be able to address the water resource related issues, and
that took some time. So we did not get that submitted until January of 2000 for comment by the city. Now
to date there have been no comments received. At the time, and I have to apologize here. I was under the
erroneous perception that we couldn't do anything further until the city's comments had been received. I
have been since informed that that is not the case. We can move onto the next step which is submitting the
feasibility study to the Board of Water and Soil Resources and the Minnesota Department of Natural
Resources for review and comment. We can begin that process then without receiving comments from the
city. Now the comments that were received from BWSR as it's called, and MDNR within 30 days after
receiving the report, we would then schedule a public hearing for the project and we can do that no sooner
than 35 days after the comment period of expired. Then we would give notice of the hearing in official
publication district and each property owner that could be affected. At that public hearing a description of
the project would be presented. Comments would be received from BWSR and MDNR, or they're made
part of the record. The city would make a presentation of their support or non-support of the project and
then comments from the public also would be received. At any time the city can withdraw the petition
request and withdraw their support of the project. However that's a very big if that comes along with that.
If the city should do that, then by virtue of how these basic water management projects work, and the
contract that was signed by the city, the city becomes responsible for all costs incurred to date. That cost
at this point in time is $194,000. But assuming that the city would continue to support the project, the
hearing would be closed and different comments would be allowed for an additional 10 or 15 days. Then
typically at a regular meeting with the board would discuss the, consider the information. Discuss the
comments submitted and determine if the project is of district wide significance. If so, then the board
would authorize the preparation of whatever construction documents that are necessary to get started and
we would start moving, obviously we'd do this all in concert with the city. And any costs that have been
incurred to date would become part of that basic water management project. The amount of money and the
little bit of time had transpired but I'm checking today with our staff. The project in total would be about
$2.8 million of which the district's funding capability would cover 1.7. And then the city portion, and this
can be spread out over a long period of time. The guidelines for the funding capabilities are anything that's
water resource related, 100% of it will be paid out of the levy that we can put through. Anything that's an
amenity, for example trails, that type of thing, 50% of it is covered by our capability and then land
purchased is 25% is covered. Now the district in the early 90's purchased the piece of land down at the
mouth of the Bluff Creek. Right where it comes under that big railroad crossing there, and we're holding
that with the idea that that's going to be transferred to the city. That probably should be done soon
because, before something, the right person gets the clever idea that they should build a home for wayward
and worn out watershed managers on the site. So we want to get that transferred to the city. I think that
that's really probably all that you need to know tonight other than we'd like to get the process going. If the
city wishes to make comments, we'd encourage you to do that. If you'd like to have us come in and do a
work session with the staff, with the council, we have done that once but I think the council is just about
100% new since we did that. So we'd be more than happy to do that to bring everybody up to speed and
it's, the opportunity because it is really a pretty good time. We've had 3 or 4 of these basic water
10
City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
management projects thus far. Minnetonka. Eden Prairie's had two. The last one at Eden Prairie was the
Purgatory Creek Recreation Area. That's behind the Flagstaff. There's a lot of work to be done but that
project has been ordered for a long time. The money has been accumulating and that is basically funded
and so we could slide into the next basic water management project and there would be absolutely no
impact visible really to the voters at all. And you need to be aware that the levy that we can put on is not
just for Chanhassen .... entire watershed district and that's about a 9 billion dollar tax base. So it becomes
rather minimal for an individual parcel.
Mayor Jansen: Sure.
Conrad Fiskness: So if you've got any questions, I'd be happy to answer them but we are putting this on
the front burner now to move ahead.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Thank you for bringing it to our attention this evening. Mr. Gerhardt, should we be
scheduling maybe a conversation between yourself and the watershed district as far as getting on the same
page with the project and comments?
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. I would schedule a meeting with Lori Haak, myself, and our Community
Development Director and get this as a part of our capital improvement plan so we can include funding for
this year.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, and then bring it back to council for a presentation when you feel appropriate.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, as part of the capital improvement plan you'll see it this year and it's a project that
has been on our books for a while and we want to get going on it. I know the council's talked about it in
the past so, and when Conrad mentioned it to me that he thought that he could get it going for this coming
year I was really excited to see what we could work together.
Conrad Fiskness: We're ready to go.
Mayor Jansen: Very good. Thank you. We appreciate that.
Conrad Fiskness: Thank you.
Mayor Jansen: Thank you.
David Sebold: Is this also for citizen input?
Mayor Jansen: Yes. Anyone else who would like to address the council on city business is welcome to
approach the podium and state your name and address for the record. If we could maybe just keep it to 5
minutes we would appreciate it. Thank you.
David Sebold: Sure. My name's Dave Sebold. I live at 7470 Tulip Court and I have 4 other neighbors
here with me. We're from the Windmill Run neighborhood which is across from the Sugarbush Park and a
little over a week ago we had a traffic accident that involved a fatality at the crosswalk at Sugarbush and
right across from our development.
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City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Mayor Jansen: I know you've had numerous communications with the city on this and we certainly
appreciate your involvement with us on this.
David Sebold: Yeah, Paul actually, we're communicating with him through e-mail and through staff and
yourself have been very responsive but we felt it would be good to come here in person and just state that
we are a little, we are concerned about that accident. It was right at the crosswalk. It did involve excessive
speed probably by the driver. At least we, what it says in the paper about it. And we'd appreciate the
city's help in looking at maybe providing some sort of flashing light on the pedestrian walkway. Consider
reducing the, having the County reduce the speed on Galpin. It's 50 miles an hour through there. This
particular accident was a car coming southbound over some hills and there is kind of a blind spot going that
fast at a pedestrian area, where a lot of people don't, I think by state law they're supposed to stop. Very
few people do other than neighborhood people stop at that crosswalk. A lot of kids go back and forth to
that park and then I'm sure that Galpin probably had some sort of improvement plan over the next few
years and would ask that the city look at that improvement as to how it could, we get a lot of through
traffic there that maybe shouldn't be there right now and again maybe make it not so attractive for that
through traffic to come through Galpin. Reduce speed. Maybe a few curves in it. In addition there is a
trail that goes along Galpin that is really, I mean it's a great trail. It's used by a lot of people in the area.
That speed, with the shoulders on that road, if a car would get onto that shoulder they would go off into
that trail. A lot of potential problems there and again we'd appreciate the city's help in looking at those
issues. Thank you.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you. Actually we had scheduled to get an administrative update under
Administrative Presentations but maybe since we do have residents here and it's been brought up as an
issue, if you wouldn't mind maybe going ahead and giving us that update as to the progress that has been
made on this.
Teresa Burgess: Certainly. I've had conversations with Carver County Deputies and also with Carver
County, the County Engineer's office. We have received a copy of the report from the deputies from the
accident. We have not received all of the information as it is still partially under investigation. However
the estimates of speed are 90 miles or greater. Obviously since the driver did not survive there is no one to
confirm that, but judging from the skid marks and information from the neighborhood they are estimating
approximately 90 miles per hour. It is a 50 miles per hour speed limit. We put out traffic counters last
week after the accident to evaluate what would happen if we were to go to MnDot and request a speed
study. Speed limits are set by MnDot. They are not set by the County or the City and what they do is they
do a speed study to determine how to set that limit and council members, if you've picked up your mail
you'll find in there a brochure. We have those available for the public as well. We are out of the brochure
that the council members received but we have another one that has the same information. It's available in
the engineering department. It's also available on the internet and if someone is interested, I don't have the
web site in front of me but I would be happy to supply that to anyone. You can e-mail me directly or you
can call me and I'd be happy to supply that if you'd like to look at it on the internet. We also have them in
the office. You can stop in and pick up a paper copy. My e-mail is on the city web page. If you want to
go to the city web page, you can click directly to it and I will send you back that link. The way that MnDot
sets those speed limits is they go out and check to see how fast people are actually driving. The philosophy
that MnDot uses is that 85% of drivers are driving at a reasonable speed. They know how fast they should
go based on not the speed limit but based on the geometrics of the road, what's on the side of the road. So
they go out and they do a traffic count and a speed study and look to see how fast 85% of the drivers are
going and based on that, that's the speed limit. Now there's a lot of discussion in engineering circles on
whether that's a good idea or not, but that is the way MnDot does it right now. We did that traffic study
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City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
and what we found is that we're having approximately 12% of the drivers above 50 miles per hour so we're
right in that 85% percentile are driving 50 miles per hour or less. So that's about what MnDot would set
that speed limit at if they were to follow that normal operating procedure. The Carver County Engineer has
already requested prior to this accident a speed study of Galpin and several other streets within the county
that are controlled by them and the two that are in Chanhassen, Audubon and Galpin, are still waiting to be
studied. Obviously with the state workers strike, that has been delayed. However they will be looking at
those two streets and evaluating speed limits. Carver County Engineer and I discussed at length how he
believes that speed limit should be set and it is not in keeping with the MnDot standard. He would like to
also see it lowered. However he cannot force that issue. It is a MnDot determination. He is continuing in
discussions and pressuring for a lower speed limit. He will continue with that. Trying to get that speed
limit down to what he feels is reasonable. Chanhassen, I have expressed to him Chanhassen support for his
efforts and we have already, at this point, done a resolution when he initiating that study stating that
support. It was a previous council. However, this council has stood behind those discussions and I've
informed him that this council would continue to support the resolution and I would be happy to bring
another resolution forward if he wants one. He feels comfortable with the original one. At this point we've
also talked about the possibility, what happens if MnDot continues with the 50 miles per hour zone? We
have some options. The first one is obviously enforcement. The sheriff's department would continue to
ticket speeders and would try to get additional enforcement effort out in that area. We are limited on the
amount of enforcement that we have in town so we would have to work with them and make prioritization.
The next issue would be if we have enough support to look at it as a potential traffic calming issue. If we
want to pursue those type of things. And then finally, Carver County has brought up the issue, this road is
designated for future turnback to the city from the county. Then become a city road. We still can't change
the speed limit but we can do some different things that make that road calmer for driving. There's some
traffic calming measures that Carver County cannot do that we can. We can make it an urban section with
curb and gutter that causes people to slow down. We can do some landscaping issues that calm it down.
At this time what I've informed Carver County is that until we get Highway 101 addressed we really don't
have staff time to be addressing a turnback on Galpin so we might as well let the MnDot speed study run
it's course. See what they come back with. Continue to pressure MnDot to lower that speed limit. I do
want to caution both council and the public, studies have shown and that MnDot brochure reiterates it,
adjusting speed limits does not adjust driver behavior. Drivers, they've taken and increased speed limits as
much as 20 miles per hour and lowered them as much as 20 miles per hour, and the maximum they saw for
average drivers was a 1.5 mile per hour adjustment in speed. So drivers drive what is comfortable and in
their perception appropriate for a roadway. They don't drive necessarily the speed limit. You do have a
few people that do just drive because that's what it says. But most of us drive what's appropriate. We
drive what feels comfortable and what feels appropriate. So I want to caution people. Just changing the
speed limit does not change driver behavior. There's a major re-education process trying to get people to
slow down to those proper speeds. Using enforcement. Using information out to the public. But Carver
County has already initiated that and we have expressed our support.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. I'm going to run into a little bit of a time crunch this evening. We are going to
unfortunately lose Councilman Peterson at 8:00, at which point we will have to close the meeting because
we will not have a quorum at that time. So I would like for everyone who is here on this issue to be able to
maybe get some more information from staff. The meeting one way or the other is going to close at 8:00
and I'm sure if you've got questions for Teresa, those can certainly be posed and I'll make myself available
once we close the meeting, and I won't volunteer Councilman Ayotte but I'm sure he would stick around
too to have those conversations. So if you don't mind, we do have one public hearing that was actually
published. Is there anyone here who is actually here for agenda item number 4 specifically? Which is that
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City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
vacation of the driveway easement. Okay. Is staffgoing to be okay if that ends up pushed offor do you
need that accomplished this evening?
Teresa Burgess: I would like to get that accomplished. Even though no one's here to speak on it, we still
need to hold the public hearing or else we'll have to re-notice. That's expensive for us to do that.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Roger Knutson: Mayor? What you can do, if you choose to, is open the public hearing and then continue
it to your next meeting. That satisfies the requirement. If you open it and then continue it.
Todd Gerhardt: We need 4/5 on this?
Roger Knutson: Yeah.
Mayor Jansen: Oh, you do need a 4/5 anyway. Okay.
Roger Knutson: You can just take your 30 seconds to open it, continue it.
Mayor Jansen: Okay.
Teresa Burgess: I'm sorry Madam Mayor, I didn't see. Was there anyone here to speak?
Mayor Jansen: No. On the vacation of the driveway easement?
Audience: No but...
Mayor Jansen: If you'll let us take care of this one I would appreciate it. Thank you.
Teresa Burgess: If we could hold the public hearing and then table the council motion, then our public
hearing is taken care of and we don't have to re-notice the public hearing.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Is that acceptable?
Roger Knutson: Sure. You can even hold the public hearing or open it and continue it. Both of them,
either way you don't have to re-advertise it.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. If everyone will just bear with us so we can take care of this one technicality, I
would appreciate it.
PUBLIC HEARING: VACATION OF A DRIVEWAY EASEMENT; 8175 HAZELTINE
BOULEVARD, CITY OF CHANHASSEN.
Mayor Jansen: If I could, I'm going to open the public hearing on agenda item number 4. Vacation of the
driveway easement, 8175 Hazeltine Boulevard. If there's anyone here to address that issue, if you would
step forward to the podium, now would be the time. Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing. As far
as the council motion on this item, we need a 4/5 vote so if I could have a motion to table please.
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City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded to table the vacation of a driveway
easement at 8175 Hazeltine Boulevard. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously 3 to 0.
Mayor Jansen: The others I think can probably wait. So I apologize for jumping off of the visitor
presentations. I believe there was someone else who had something they wanted to discuss under visitor
presentations and we're certainly still open for that. But we will be closing the meeting at 8:00. And I
apologize for that.
Deb Lloyd: I'll be quick. Deb Lloyd, 7302 Laredo Drive. I just had a question and that was if we went to
new business, would the public be able to speak?
Mayor Jansen: If we get to that item, yes.
Deb Lloyd: Thank you.
Mayor Jansen: Sure. Is there anyone else who would like to address the council on any city business
issues? Please step to the podium and state your name and address for the record. Okay. Otherwise I am
now closing visitor presentations.
HIGHWAY 101 TURNBACK PROJECT UPDATE, PROJECT 97-12.
Mayor Jansen: Teresa, if you don't mind, which would we like to do first? The Highway 101 turnback
update. I don't know that we can go through the amendment in 5 minutes council. Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: You could amend you agenda to move it up if you wanted to.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. I don't know that we will get through the new business items so shall we go ahead
with, I'm throwing it out for what you would like to hear this evening in 5 minutes. Okay, Teresa why
don't you go ahead with the unfinished business, the Highway 101 turnback project update. Thank you.
Teresa Burgess: Unfortunately the Highway 101 project has been impacted by the state strike. The staff
has completed the traffic counts that were requested by MnDot. We have supplied that information to
MnDot and also to the council. That information is in it's raw format. It has not been digested so that
means that it's just a computer printout. If someone has interest in the public, we'd be happy to sit down
and discuss it with them, but to just mail it out, we're not comfortable with that because it is undigested.
It's just a computer printout. And we want to be able to explain what it says to someone before we send it
out and they try to read it themselves. At this point the traffic counts do look promising, however MnDot
will be doing that review and will be making the final determination if the road meets the level of service D.
That probably will not take place until a couple of weeks after the state strike ends. Right now MnDot is
using their high level managerial staff to fill in for those people that are out of the office and so they are
stretched pretty thin over there and this is one of the projects that is not high priority at the moment.
Mayor Jansen: Any guesses on the length of the strike? Is anyone speculating at this point?
Teresa Burgess: I have not heard any speculation on length of the strike. We are feeling it here in
Chanhassen. I know Councilman Labatt had asked me earlier. It is impacting Highway 5. It is also
impacting Highway 41 and 7, that intersection. A number of other unions are refusing to make deliveries
of materials to those sites in respect of the MnDot strike. We do have inspectors from MnDot out there.
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City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
We have city inspectors on both projects protecting city interests, but there are some impacts to those
projects. We're also having some communication issues as we try to discuss project issues with MnDot.
It's difficult to get a hold of someone. They're doing their best and supervisors are very understanding
what's going on and we've also had conversations unofficially with a number of the people that are on
strike and they understand these projects have to move forward. And they support that but they need to
address their issues. Right now we have chosen not to state a position and we have chosen to stay out of
the discussions so we're not getting some of that information how long.
Mayor Jansen: Okay. Alright. Any questions for staff on this project? Alright. Thank you for the
update. As far as moving on to new business, I don't see us getting that accomplished in 5 minutes so why
don't we table. Is that appropriate for us to table agenda item 5.5?
CONSIDER AMENDMENT TO CITY CODE TO PERMIT ONLY ONE DRIVEWAY ACCESS
PER LOT.
Mayor Jansen: If I could have a motion to table please.
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded to table this item. All voted in favor and
the motion carried unanimously 3 to 0.
Mayor Jansen: With that, this will be a very short meeting. Thank you for coming this evening and can I
have a motion to adjourn?
Councilman Peterson: So moved.
Councilman Ayotte: Second.
Mayor Jansen: I'm sorry.
Todd Gerhardt: Before the 3 of you leave. The library committee had asked me to ask you if you have a
problem with them soliciting teenager input on how the teen portion of the library would be laid out,
designed, and what other elements they would like to see incorporated into the library. And the design team
wanted me to get your input on that. If you had a problem if they solicited the input of several teenagers
for that.
Mayor Jansen: It's been a conversation that we've had even since the needs assessment as far as getting
their feedback on that area but we certainly didn't want to cause any surprises for council as that moves
forward.
Councilman Peterson: Seems totally logical to me.
Mayor Jansen: Okay, great.
Councilman Ayotte: Thanks.
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded to adjourn the City Council meeting. All
voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 8:00 p.m.
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City Council Meeting - October 8, 2001
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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