CC 2009 06 22
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 22, 2009
Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:10 p.m. The meeting was opened with the
Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mayor Furlong, Councilman Litsey, Councilwoman
Ernst, Councilwoman Tjornhom, and Councilman McDonald
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Gerhardt, Roger Knutson, Laurie Hokkanen, Kate Aanenson, Paul
Oehme, and Todd Hoffman
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Mayor Furlong: Thank you and welcome everybody. Those here in the council chambers and
those watching at home. We're glad that you joined us and we appreciate your patience for a
little bit late start this evening. We had an item in our work session go a little bit longer, a few
minutes longer so thank you for waiting for us. At this time I'd like to make one amendment to
the agenda and that would be under a new business item which would have council considering
appointment to the Planning Commission. We'll put that as item 4. Without objection. Are
there any other modifications or adjustments to the agenda? If not then let's proceed with the
agenda without objection.
PRESENTATION OF AWARDS:
Mayor Furlong: I'd like to make an announcement. At our work session this evening we had the
privilege of presenting a Maple Leaf Award to Kurt Papke. Kurt is the current Chair of our
Planning Commission. He served in that position for 2 years. He's actually served on the
Planning Commission since 2002. Fortunately for him and unfortunately for us he has accepted
a great opportunity that will require him to move out of town. Actually down south and we tried
to encourage him that we do get hot weather here but that wasn't enough to keep him. But he,
Kurt was involved, as I said, 7 years on the Planning Commission, 2 as Chair. He was involved
with a number of major projects that we've worked on over that time. Design standards for
multi-family homes. Looking at the southern part of our city, our 2005 MUSA area where we
also looked at what was called at the time an AUAR but basically a small plan on that area.
We've seen the benefits now that homes are starting to be built in that area of the work that the
Planning Commission, Council, staff all worked on and Kurt was an integral part of that. He was
also involved in many new, many development reviews as well as part of the PC. Arboretum
Business Park, Chanhassen High School, many subdivisions, Settlers West, Bluff Creek, Liberty
on Bluff Creek. A lot of these projects had some very unique and challenging aspects to them
and with Kurt and the other members of the commission they really did a great job and really
helped the council out so we're very grateful for Kurt and his years of service. He's been a
resident for 30 years in Chanhassen. I know that he and his family have a lot of friends here that
they will miss, but we are excited for him in his new opportunity and it was a pleasure to present
him with the Maple Leaf Award earlier this evening.
Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
INVITATION TO CHANHASSEN FOURTH OF JULY CELEBRATION.
Mayor Furlong: I'd also like to at this time extend an invitation to all to participate in our Fourth
of July festivities and celebration. This is a 2 day celebration and it is held on July 3rd and 4th
each year. It becomes a bigger and bigger event every year. Festivities are sponsored by the
City of Chanhassen, Southwest Metro Chamber of Commerce and Chanhassen Rotary Club.
Events kick off on Friday afternoon, July 3rd at 3:30 at City Center Park with the Business Expo.
Taste of Chanhassen food vendors will be there. Carnival rides. Kiddie parades. The street
dance begins at 7:00 p.m. with the ever popular Casablanca Orchestra performing. I know too
warming up for Casablanca Orchestra this year is our winners of our Chanhassen Chan Fest. a
high school band from Minnetonka I believe, is that right Mr. Hoffman?
Todd Hoffman: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: And they did a great job and they're going to be playing in the big tent literally
at 6:00 on Friday so come out and enjoy the local talent as well. Saturday, July 4th adult fishing
contest at Lake Ann beginning at 7:00. Mr. Gerhardt that means you can only put your line in at
7:00, not 6:30 as in years past. Live music, carnival rides will be at City Center Park again.
Chanhassen Classic Car Show. Parade sponsored by the Rotary Club begins at 2:30. It's a great
event. Fireworks will finish off the two day celebration and cap it in style at 10:00 p.m. at Lake
Ann Park. There's clearly a reason to stay in town this year. We've had, last year I think we had
estimates of close to 10,000 people participating both days. I see Lt. Olson nodding so from, but
yet it was a very safe event and fun was had by all. I expect that there'll be as many or more this
year so come down. Enjoy some of the best that Chanhassen has to offer during July 3rd and
4th. Move now with the next items on our agenda.
CONSENT AGENDA:
Mayor Furlong: I would like to take item 1(d), sub-item (1) and (2) both and move then to new
business, and what I may do is put them right ahead of our Planning Commission appointments.
So we’ll take those first as new business. Make that item 4. Or keep those the same item but
take them ahead of item 4 if that’s okay with everybody.We have some people interested in
those. So items 1(d)(1) and (d)(2) will be pulled off for separate discussion. If anyone else on
the council or others present would like any other items pulled for separate discussion, be happy
to listen to them now. Seeing none, is there a motion to adopt items 1(a) through (f) excluding
items (d)(1) and (2).
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded to approve the following
consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations:
a. Approval of Minutes:
-City Council Work Session Minutes dated June 8, 2009
-City Council Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated June 8, 2009
Receive Commission Minutes:
-Park and Recreation Commission Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated May 27, 2009
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
b. Approve Request for a Temporary On-Sale Liquor License, St. Hubert Catholic
Community, September 26, 2009
c. Approval of Submission of a Firefighters Fire Station Construction Grant Application
under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act.
d. Approve Amendments to City Code; Chapter 1, Definitions and Chapter 20, Zoning
Regulations: LED Lights.
Resolution 2009-51:
e. Barto Purchase Agreement, Lakota Lane Right-of-Way, Project
09-01: Dispense Planning Commission Review of Acquisition; Approve Purchase
Agreement.
Resolution 2009-52:
f. Approve Transfers Resulting from 2009 Audit.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
Jennifer Nuesse: Good evening.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
Jennifer Nuesse: Nice to see you. My name is Jennifer Nuesse. I’m a resident of Chanhassen.
We’ve lived in the city for almost 20 years this fall and the reason I’m here this evening is to
speak about raising chickens in our back yard.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Ms. Nuesse if I could. Since we’ll be, that was one of the items that
we’ll bring up in new business.
Jennifer Nuesse: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: So if you don’t mind why don’t we, if you’re willing to wait until we address
that. Let’s bring it up in context so we get a staff report and then we can hear you’ll comments
and I’ll be sure to do that.
Jennifer Nuesse: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: At that time. Okay, thank you.
Jennifer Nuesse: Thank you. Alright.
Mayor Furlong: Anyone else who would like to address the council this evening under visitor
presentations? Okay. We will take public comments there so be happy to listen to people.
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIRE DEPARTMENT UPDATE.
Mayor Furlong: We receive our monthly updates from our law enforcement and fire department
this evening. Lieutenant Olson is here with the Carver County Sheriff’s Department. Good
evening Lieutenant.
Lt. Jim Olson: Thank you. And if you’d like Mr. Mayor we could certainly have somebody
keep an eye on Mr. Gerhardt for that fishing contest.
Mayor Furlong: I would appreciate it, yes. If we could have somebody at Lake Ann by 6:15
because he is 6:30 when he shows up.
Todd Gerhardt: It’s called pre-fishing.
Lt. Jim Olson: I think we can quit complaining about the weather also. It certainly is a nice day
out there today, but it’s a dry heat so that’s good. For the council I have presented the sheriff’s
office area report for the month of May along with the citation list, the CSO or Community
Service Officer report and a crime prevention alert Chanhassen Crime Prevention Specialist Beth
Hoiseth put out. Are there any questions in reference to the packet this month?
Mayor Furlong: Any questions for the Lieutenant?
Lt. Jim Olson: Okay, a couple of things that I would like to highlight. As the mayor pointed out,
the 4th of July is right around the corner and we normally start getting calls for firework
complaints around the city at this time of year. A good rule of thumb for everybody is if it goes
boom or if it flies in the air it’s probably illegal. There are some legal fireworks that you can
purchase at retail establishments in Minnesota. The legal ones include sparklers, ground
spinners, snakes, glow worms, as well as party poppers. However fireworks of any type are
illegal. Or both legal or illegal, cannot be used at any Chanhassen park at all, and this of course
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includes Lake Ann Park during the 4 of July fireworks itself. Please be respectful of your
neighbors in the area and if you have more specific questions we’ll be putting copies of the
statute as well as information on what’s legal and illegal on the city’s web page, or you can give
me a call at 952-361-1601. Or excuse me, 952-227-1601. I’m sorry. And to go along with this
I’ve recently had a lot of questions regarding the legality of air soft guns within the city of
Chanhassen. Air soft, BB guns as well as paint ball guns are all illegal to be used here in the
city, within the limits. Just the other day one of our Chanhassen employees was riding their bike
on one of the trails in the city and actually had somebody shoot one of those at them while they
were riding down the trail. I would ask that parents be aware of not only the laws but also what
their kids are doing regarding those items so. Those can be dangerous and we need to be careful
with that. One of the other things that has been of interest lately for us is we received some
phone calls regarding passing on the right and where this is a real big issue is on Lake, or excuse
me. On Powers Boulevard by Lake Lucy Road as well as by Kerber Boulevard. It’s dangerous
to do this as well as illegal. We do frequent traffic details in those locations and you know
people need to be very careful. We’ve had a number of accidents that have happened at both of
those locations because of passing on the right, as well as people that are trying to cross those
road who are on bikes and it’s very dangerous. Please don’t pass on the right in either one of
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those locations. We’ve had all sorts of calls regarding some emails that went out to some
Chanhassen residents recently. One of those emails involved some threats that were made to one
of the residents and both of the emails wanted money sent. The one email actually threatened
that if they did not send them $800 that they would harm this person’s family as well as the
person that called me. Doing some checking, this email went out to thousands of people around
the country and was not actually directed at this individual, however from reading the email it
certainly did seem like it was. The second complaint I received was from a person that was
trying to find a job and had put out a bunch of resumes and they received something back that
indicated that what seemed to be a legitimate company was looking to hire them and all they
needed to do was send a certain amount of money and they would have their job and be all set
and ready to go. I did some checking on that and did some back tracking and that email came
out from the Netherlands actually and again had been received by thousands of people around
the country. You know if you have concerns about an email or if you have, or you have an offer
that you received that seems to be too good to be true or that you have some concerns with,
please give us a call. If you have suspicions there could very well be issues with it. Trust your
gut instinct and don’t be afraid to call us or just completely disregard whatever the email was.
The last thing I want to talk about is a service that’s office with Chanhassen, the Senior
Commission. Not Senior Commission but the Senior Center with Sue Bill and that’s Donuts
with the Deputies and we had that actually this morning and what normally happens is I bring in
a guest speaker and have an informal discussion with the seniors and whoever the guest speaker
is. Today it was Jim Keeler, Carver County Attorney and long time Chanhassen resident. I’d
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like to invite everybody to our next one which is August 10. It’s a great program. It’s a chance
for us to sit down and get to know these folks and it’s, and get to know us so it’s a great program.
I’d also like to congratulate Todd Hoffman and his Concerts in the Park that he does on, I think
it’s once a month Todd?
Todd Hoffman: Once a week.
Lt. Jim Olson: Once a week, I’m sorry, on Thursday nights. I was at the last one last Thursday
and it was a great time. A lot of people and it’s a lot of fun so that’s, just wanted to, it’s a great
program. Anything else for the sheriff’s office at all?
Mayor Furlong: Any questions for Lieutenant Olson?
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Councilman Litsey: I was just curious on the 4 of July coming up and we have you know
obviously a large influx of people coming into the community. Also community members.
Does the sheriff’s department coordinate any kind of special event plans? Having contingencies
and so forth when things come up so you have contact information, things like that.
Lt. Jim Olson: Absolutely. We’ve been working with the Rotary for a couple of months with
meetings now. We have, it’s been about every other week that we’ve been having them so we
certainly have a set of contingency plans, phone numbers that we pass around with contact
people and so on and so we will be ready.
Councilman Litsey: Good. Thanks.
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Lt. Jim Olson: Absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you.
Lt. Jim Olson: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Appreciate your service. Chief Geske is here this evening with the Chanhassen
Fire Department. Good evening Chief.
Chief Gregg Geske: Good evening. I want to apologize for my absence last month. I’m sure
you missed me but we did have a structure fire as it was noted in the thing about 15 minutes
before the council meeting so.
Mayor Furlong: You don’t plan those do you?
Chief Gregg Geske: I don’t. I was voted by myself as the best dressed fire fighter at the call.
But so we did have that right before so that’s where I was last month at this time. We are well
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involved in the 4 of July celebration. July 3 we’ll be blocking off roads and doing, leading the
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Kiddie Parade. We start that and then on the 4 of July we usually have a couple fire trucks in it
and your’s truly does a picnic lunch for the fire fighters and city workers and the deputies that
work that day so we’re looking forward and we try to involve the families and stuff in that day
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and we’re looking forward to the 4 of July celebration ourselves. We did add the last couple
weeks we added 3 additional probationary fire fighters and we got a couple of them that are
actually putting in their year here and we’ll have a graduation so to speak for them in July. In
addition to the fires that we had last month, they were somewhat busy. We did send a couple
trucks over the other night to St. Louis Park and Hopkins to cover for them while they were at
the big apartment fire which did turn out to be somebody that I believe that was grilling on a
deck and started a fire. In Chanhassen we do have rules against that, like they did in St. Louis
Park also but a lot of our apartments, some of our apartment buildings actually have sprinklers
where they can grill out on the deck. We do have sprinkler systems that would put out a fire like
that so just wanted to report that we are prepared in the city here but hopefully people do follow
the rules because there were 80 residents I think or 80 units that they’re out for quite some time
so that’s all I have to report tonight.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for the Chief? No?
Todd Gerhardt: Chief Geske, there was a fire out at Lifetime. Just want to clarify to everybody
it wasn’t in the buildings. It was a car fire. Do you want to give a little more information?
Chief Gregg Geske: Correct. There was a car fire out there. The deputies actually showed up
on scene first and our Assistant Chief showed up shortly after. It was a fully engulfed car fire.
There were cars around it that did not start on fire. I think they did get some heat damage to the
paint and so forth but there was a car fire in the parking lot that was going pretty good by the
time we got there so.
Todd Gerhardt: That’s all I had.
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Very good. Thank you.
Chief Gregg Geske: Thanks. Have a nice night.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
PUBLIC HEARING: VACATION OF DRAINAGE AND UTILITY EASEMENTS,
HIGHCREST MEADOWS.
Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor, City Council members. This item is requested by the
developer, Pulte Homes of the Highcrest Meadows. Highcrest Meadows development is located
here on the map, which is just north of Longacres and east of Trunk Highway 41. The easement
vacations are shown here on the plat. Two locations that have been requested for vacation at this
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time. Just a little background. On May 13 of this year an administrative subdivision request
was approved which changed the orientation of the lot lines between Lot 6 and 8 shown here,
and Lots 12 and 13. The lot line adjustments were necessary so that the new style of homes that
Pulte’s proposing will comply with the impervious surface coverage requirements. As a result of
the lot line adjustments, Pulte Homes was or has requested a portion of these plotted drainage
utility easements to be vacated and new easements being dedicated along the adjacent property
lines. This drawing shows the area in yellow here that the area that, where the old property line
was and the drainage and utility easement is requested to be vacated and the darker lines showing
the new property line and then drainage and utility easement on each side of the property line.
That’s for Lot 6. Lot 6 and 8 and then on Lot 12 and 13 likewise. The old property line shown
here which has been moved to the, moved to the west and new property line and new drainage
and utility easements shown. Gopher State One has been called and no private or public utilities
are in these drainage utility easements to be vacated so at this time I would recommend that the
utility easements be vacated and I stand for questions. I would request that a public hearing be
opened at this time.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for staff before we open the public hearing?
Councilman Litsey: Maybe just to reaffirm that it doesn’t have any material affect on any of the
city interest then?
Paul Oehme: Correct. Yeah, there are no, no city utilities at these locations and drainage
patterns are consistent with what the original platted development had anticipated so there’s
really no change from a city standpoint or impacts to the city.
Councilman Litsey: Great, thanks.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Oehme based upon the proposed change, and I’m not at this point I think it
makes sense to go forward but based upon those proposed change, the size of the home that
they’re planning to build and the structure, what amount of impervious surface coverage are they
looking at with this change and with what they’re proposing to do?
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Kate Aanenson: I can answer that. The home sizes, some of these are ramblers which wasn’t
anticipated with the underlying development going to larger two stories so the impervious
surface requirement is still consistent with the residential single family.
Mayor Furlong: Which is 25 percent?
Kate Aanenson: Yep, so that’s still staying the same. What this allows it, some creativity into
the style homes which the new builder has in place. So in order to accommodate that. Moving
the lot line is administrative. Moving the easement takes council action.
Mayor Furlong: Right.
Kate Aanenson: It just allows for the rambler as opposed to the kind of two story. Gives them
more flexibility but it does not increase the impervious surface.
Mayor Furlong: And I guess my question is with the housing style, the rambler that, once that is
completely, once that’s constructed and with the driveway and everything, are they going to be
right at the 25%? Are we looking at potential problems with the homeowner coming back in? I
know we have the 10 by 10 for patio but somebody coming in and immediately needing a
variance to impervious surface?
Kate Aanenson: I think to Pulte’s credit they spent some time meeting with the planning staff
and the engineering staff. Originally they were looking at horseshoe driveways and elongated,
not horseshoe driveway, excuse me. Side loaded garages which would have made a longer
driveway which didn’t work so through meeting with them and to their credit, worked through
all those issues to get what would match because the lots were already established but there was
some flexibility moving the lot lines so we worked through all those issues and they are in
compliance. We always want to have some flexibility for a homeowner to do additional work on
the site, and they understand that because…
Mayor Furlong: Right, and will that be?
Kate Aanenson: …we’re the customer.
Mayor Furlong: Right. Will that be the case here then?
Kate Aanenson: Yes, there is flexibility on those lots.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: Because these lots are not at the minimum. 15,000.
Mayor Furlong: Right, but even with the rambler on there, which obviously is the larger
footprint, they’re still going to have space for the homeowner to.
Kate Aanenson: Put in an additional patio. A yard barn, something like that, yes.
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Thank you. Any other questions at this point? If not I’ll go
ahead and open up the public hearing on this matter and invite any interested party to come
forward and address the council. No? Okay. Seeing nobody then without objection we’ll close
the public hearing on this item and bring it back to council for discussion. Or a motion. Is there
any discussion or would somebody like to make a motion?
Councilwoman Ernst: I’ll make the motion.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Make a motion that we support the proposed vacate the drainage and
utility easements on Lots 6, 8, 12, and 13, Block 1, Highcrest Meadows as shown on the surveys
prepared by Westwood Professional Services dated January 13, 2009.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion?
Resolution #2009-53: Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded
that the City Council approves the vacation of the drainage and utility easements on Lots 6,
8, 12 and 13, Block 1, Highcrest Meadows as shown on the surveys prepared by Westwood
Professional Services dated January 13, 2009. All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
CONSENT AGENDA: APPROVE AMENDMENTS TO CITY CODE; CHAPTER 1,
DEFINITIONS AND CHAPTER 20, ZONING REGULATIONS: FARM ANIMALS.
Public Present:
Name Address
Jennifer Nuesse 6251 Cardinal Avenue
Dewey & Marietta Hassig 5342 Mayview Road, Minnetonka
Ellen Wolaner 330 Pleasant View Road
Stephanie Hodel 330 Pleasant View Road
Kelsey Frenzel 5818 Sailsbury Avenue
Devin & Tara Abbott 6420 Pleasant Park Drive
Chris Arnoldy 350 Pleasant View Road
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. This item actually was put on
the work session agenda by the Planning Commission and the staff prepared, the planning staff
prepared an issue paper which was presented to them back in April and the outcome of that was
they wanted some specific additional research on targeting ducks, chickens, and bees and
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
agricultural zones. Some things that they’d been reading and hearing about so we provided some
additional information from that work session and came out with the following clear consensus
of direction that was limiting farm animals to agricultural districts. Clarifying our definitions
and prohibiting wild animals and birds of prey, which we’ve been getting some questions on
lately. While the DNR regulates some of that, just to put some of that also in the ordinance and
reference places where to go for additional information. That would be someone that would
want to have a falcon or a hawk or something like that. And then delete any reference to the A1
district which we no longer have. And again just to kind of review for council, we have
agricultural districts which does allow those sort of things. Farm animals so if you go to the city
code the RSF, Residential Single Family District allows household pets so some people are
considering some of these species maybe as household pets but our definition, the way we
looked at agricultural and that’s why we would embellish that definition, was to say that that’s
where that belongs. So the intent of this district, or these amendments was to clarify, in an
elongated format, those terms. Household pets. Farm animals and wild animals. Then also as I
mentioned, provide references for where you define birds of prey and eliminating the reference
to the A1 zoning district. The Planning Commission at their hearing recommended 3 to 2 to
approve the amendments, and they spent a lot of time discussing really kind of what they
believed was the core issue and what kind of community do we want to be. There was some
discussion brought out regarding the Department of Agriculture has a point system which is a
little bit complex but I think really what they came back to was again the core issue is what kind
of community do we want to, what we want to be. A suburban community and kind of
introducing some of these species. Again while there are large lots in the city, the whole
southern portion of the city where it can be accomplished, there was the concern of putting that
into the more urbanized or suburban type development. So ultimately voted 3 to 2 to approve the
amendments as recommended. So with that I’d be happy to answer your questions that you
have.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff. Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah, this is kind of I guess one of those interesting issues, to say the
least. The Planning Commission discussed different ways, different communities around our
area handled the ordinance and do you want to educate us maybe a little bit if you can.
Kate Aanenson: Sure. That was part of the issue paper. We surveyed some other communities
and obviously Minneapolis also uses a point system and you can notify people within your area
so a pig would equal so many. Chickens and we spent a lot of time talking about enforcement
and that sort of thing but looking at some of the surrounding communities, there was a lot, if you
look at Plymouth would be similar to the way we enforce it. That they be in an agricultural area.
I think the interesting thing though here that differentiates us, Chanhassen, would be that we do
have agricultural zoning. Not all cities have that in place so we have that opportunity to provide
that. I also just wanted to point out too that one of the kind of the contradictions in this
ordinance that was brought out was that we do allow horses on an acre and a half, and I think
that is a contradiction because we only have 3 in that and most of those are non-conforming.
The rest of them all are in agricultural zone, larger lots. We only have one that’s on a less than
an acre and a half and that’s legal non-conforming. The rest of them are all over and I think that
might be something that we might want to look at because there seems to be a contradiction that
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
you could have a horse on an acre and a half, and that was raised at the Planning Commission.
But for the most part we have 21. Those are annually inspected so there’s time that would be
required in reviewing this, to inspect some of those if we were to provide that opportunity and I
think that was some of the, some other nuisances that might be attracted to that. To that use if
you’re raising chickens or if you had pigs so for example the stabling permits, there are regular
inspections that’s made annually and if there are some complaints on occasion on those too so
those are handled so it’s what level does the city want to go to manage that part of it.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And I guess I’m just wondering what has brought us to this point. I
know that I was reading the Chaska Community Education catalog last year and they actually
had a class on raising chickens in your back yard, so it seems to be a new trend or something.
People are taking interest in obviously for a more sustainable, healthy living. Are we seeing that
this is like an increasing issue in town where people are taking part in doing this?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I think there is more calls on that. I’m not sure there’s a lot of people
doing it but there is more interest and people calling about that sort of thing.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Complaining or wanting to know if they can do it?
Kate Aanenson: Wanting to know if they can do it. And like you say, I think there’s a
heightened interest and people are getting educated in that. I think you’ll hear that from some of
the comments tonight. There are classes being taught on that. Again we have, as do other
communities, have those areas for those to go in under a conditional use. Again when you do a
conditional use you’re setting yourself to manage that just like you do the horse stables. They’re
compliance commander or someone has that responsible party for that, as we are with dogs.
There’s a responsibility that goes with that, not only for the resident but for the city if there’s
complaints, and that’s kind of what we looked at, and the Planning Commission again, in their
kind of conclusion of that was, you know is that an issue that, a suburban issue that reflect kind
of where we’re going with the suburbanization.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: I’ve got a question. How does this interact with the City’s nuisance
laws? If you had some of these animals on a piece of property, at what point do they become a
nuisance and how do we deal with that?
Kate Aanenson: Maybe the city attorney wants to, it’s very difficult to enforce those things. As
we do with noise ordinances, any other sort of things to try to track those. Send a letter, as we do
with any other nuisance. It’s try to get compliance and that’s where we start measuring city
commitment to solve these problems. All we’re trying to say is that the right way to go. Not
everybody that’s going to have them is going to be a problem but they can be. Do you have
anything else to add Roger?
Mayor Furlong: Additional thoughts.
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Roger Knutson: What is and what is not a nuisance is all subject to debate and argument.
Sometimes it’s clear. Sometimes it’s less clear and the advantage if you want to go in this
direction is, this is a sharper line. It’s easier to enforce. If you have an ordinance that says no
chickens, well if you have chickens you’re in violation. Are the chickens unreasonably annoying
someone? Well, how sensitive is your neighbor? What issues, is the rooster crowing at 6:00 in
the morning? That’s a nuisance. If it crows at 8:00 it’s not. If you want to draw lines then a
nuisance can work but it’s not, it doesn’t work as easily.
Councilman McDonald: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: So in reality a chicken really wouldn’t be any more of a nuisance than a
dog barking, right? Potentially if there was a rooster even crowing at 6:00 in the morning, it
really is no more of a nuisance than a dog. Correct?
Roger Knutson: We have a barking dog ordinance.
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah I know but that’s why I’m asking the question.
Kate Aanenson: I think the, let me answer that question…
Roger Knutson: I don’t believe we have a rooster crowing ordinance.
Kate Aanenson: The way the Planning Commission addressed it is, sometimes if you have a few
chickens, and I’m not saying everybody’s doing this. This is the Planning Commission for kind
of a baseline intent pet to manage it, when they grow bigger. Whether you’re tracking other
species that may want to be in that area because they’re, you know. They talked about
household pet you tend to think as it’s inside. Outside pet may be attracting, or outside farm
animal, also a pet could be attracting some other types of things, and as the city attorney stated,
you know a barking dog’s a little bit more clear. Whether it’s bees, I don’t want to just pick on
that it’s chickens. Bees or something else could be offensive to somebody else and how do you
manage that? What’s a reasonable level of tolerance for people who are moving in and out of
our neighborhoods? What’s their expectation moving into the neighborhood, and I think that’s
where the Planning Commission again philosophically said you know what type of community
are we? What’s our vision? Are we kind of a traditional suburban or are we kind of a farming
community and I think they hung their hat on to say that we’re more traditional. We’ve got
places for that agricultural. And then they also talked about, when people start slaughtering,
which we’ve had that question come up before. Whether it’s a pig or chickens or those sort of
things so just some of those kind of health issues. Nuisance issues which are difficult to enforce
and prosecute.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council members. Just some other things to take into account. You
know people’s tolerance levels are different. Some people can take a lot and some people just a
little thing can set them off. The second thing is that where some people may maintain their
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
property as neat as a pin, other people may not and unfortunately you know those are the ones
that kind of challenge us to the letter of the law. So those are things you have to take into
account. It takes one bad egg to ruin it for everybody. Pun intended.
Mayor Furlong: I’ll actually call that out of order.
Todd Gerhardt: That was a good one.
Mayor Furlong: It was a good one.
Todd Gerhardt: Been waiting all night to use it.
Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson, the way that this, the Planning Commission recommended, it
was 3-2 but nonetheless they recommended the writing would be to restrict farm animals to
agriculture?
Kate Aanenson: Right, and that’s how we interpreted it.
Mayor Furlong: Zoning property, correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct and that’s how we’ve interpreted it in the past. This just further
clarifies.
Mayor Furlong: So this is consistent with how city staff has been operating?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And single family residential, or residential single family, RSF is the
zoning code that we use all the time. Is that all residential or is that your single family home?
Your 1 to 4 per acre.
Kate Aanenson: That’s our largest land use in the city and it’s our largest residential land use.
Anything that would be in that zoning district.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: Most apartment buildings aren’t going to allow, that would be a multi-family
townhouse.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, multi-family would be another residential zoning district.
Kate Aanenson: Yes, correct.
Mayor Furlong: And then we’ve got large lot residential.
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I think where the, where some of the ambiguity may come in is, if you
had a larger single family lot or an older lot that might be bigger than an acre. A standard
residential lot is 15,000 so the things that come into play for this is you know sometimes you
may need an accessory structure or those sort of things and so it wouldn’t fit on a standard lot
and I think that’s where some people think I’m in an area that seems to be maybe a little bit more
rural in character and what would it hurt kind of that sort of atmosphere.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Very good. Any other questions for staff at this time? Okay. I
know we have some residents that are interested in speaking on this so I’d certainly invite you up
at this time and provide public comment. I know there were a number of people that spoke at the
Planning Commission as well and we appreciate that so we’ve had a chance to review that but
good evening. Thank you for waiting.
Jennifer Nuesse: Thank you. Apologize for my error before.
Mayor Furlong: That is no error at all. I’m glad you spoke up so that we can be sure to listen
now.
Jennifer Nuesse: I want to thank the council also for having this agenda item open. It’s very
important to us. As I stated before we are residents of Chanhassen. We live in the Lake Lucy
neighborhood, in the Koehnen section of town. Very, very close to Excelsior. We can see the
county line from our yard. The reason we became interested in raising chickens in our back yard
is we are looking for a more sustainable lifestyle where we grow our own food. Buy food locally
and show greater care for our living creatures by way of purchasing meat that’s raised in a
humane fashion and things of that nature. We attended a class raising chickens in your back yard
in Minnetrista at the Gale Woods Farm and this is at least the second year they’ve run this class
and it’s been very popular. We were in the second class that was held and it was sold out. It was
24 people that attended and they realized that they’d probably have to add another class because
there’s a lot of interest in the area. Of the people that were at that class, we were the only town
that restricts raising chickens in your back yard. For the purpose of having a companion.
Reaping the benefits of having fresh eggs. Not for slaughter. Not for profit. Not for resale. No
roosters. In my belief that means no nuisance because roosters can be a nuisance, and I raised
chickens in 4H so I know exactly what that can mean. I think it’s important to allow this
ordinance to be changed because there are, there is greater interest in our community. There is
greater interest nationwide through TV, newspaper, internet media, classes that are offered. You
go to local feed stores and you’re finding chicken feed being offered as a form of pet food where
it didn’t used to be offered, and we’ve discovered there are a lot of places in the Twin Cities
metro area that offer products to raise chickens in your back yard. We would like to have this
ordinance changed so that people can be allowed to do this and there are many cities that allow
this through permit. Some cities charge an annual rate. They restrict how many animals you can
have per acre or per lot size, and most of them that I’ve read say no roosters so I believe that a
few chickens, 3 or 4 in our back yard is far less nuisance than a beagle that yips at me every time
I go in my garden next door, so I would like to see this reconsidered for change and to make us a
progressive community like many other urban and suburban communities in Minnesota. Are
there any questions?
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Any questions?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I have a couple. Well maybe just one or two. Do you have, these
chickens that you have, are they year round?
Jennifer Nuesse: We don’t have them yet.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: But I mean if you did.
Jennifer Nuesse: Oh if we did they would be year round and we would build a coop of some sort
that would have insulation so they could be outdoors. Chickens need to be in about 20 degrees
or warmer so if you have a insulated structure or a place where they can go to stay warm with a
lamp source or a heat source of some kind, they can be kept outdoors in the winter.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: So then if you’re, you do have to have an outside structure.
Jennifer Nuesse: You do not have to have an outside structure, but you need a place where they
can roam freely in a penned, it’s usually a penned area. Most city ordinances do not prevent, or
do not allow them to roam freely in the street or in the neighbor’s yard. And then some kind of a
contained structure where they can stay warm and be sheltered from other predators. Chickens
want to roost at night. They want to be quiet in a dark, warm place. From dusk to dawn.
Mayor Furlong: Have a question?
Councilman Litsey: Yeah, if I could. Having raised chickens as a youth, I don’t know how
successfully but they can get pretty messy and smelly in terms of chicken coops and so forth.
What would be different, you talk about there’s suppliers that sell things specific to like raising
them in more of a residential. How would you deal with that?
Jennifer Nuesse: Well you can compost chicken manure like any other yard waste. It actually
makes a very good compost. Good fertilizer. We have a large garden and I would add it to my
composter.
Councilman Litsey: I’m just wondering what, and you maybe can’t answer this question but you
know like when you buy animal manure it’s usually, the smell’s been taken out.
Jennifer Nuesse: It’s composted, right.
Councilman Litsey: Right. And if you’re doing it on site I would think that could be somewhat
offensive to neighbors.
Jennifer Nuesse: Well I’m not sure about that but I know we have another chicken owner here in
the audience tonight that could probably speak to that. When I raised chickens it was on a hobby
farm of 5 acres in Carver County.
Councilman Litsey: Yeah, we had about 10 acres.
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Jennifer Nuesse: Yeah, we had I think 50 to 75 at any given time.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright, thank you.
Jennifer Nuesse: Thank you.
Councilman McDonald: I have a couple questions.
Mayor Furlong: Oh, I’m sorry.
Councilman McDonald: Excuse me ma’am, before you leave.
Mayor Furlong: I’m sorry, could you re-state your name.
Jennifer Nuesse: Jennifer Nuesse. I wrote a short email to each of you in preparation for this.
Mayor Furlong: Yes.
Councilman McDonald: How much land do you need per chicken as far as just to graze or to
work on? What’s the recommended amount of space per chicken?
th
Jennifer Nuesse: Well I do know that the animal unit of a chicken is 1/100. And generally you
want a good enough square footage that they’re not going to be a hindrance to each other. In
commercial raising of chickens they’re raised in deplorable conditions. They don’t have the
freedom to roam. To dust themselves. They’re in very close quarters and there’s feces and other
very unpleasant things that go on. If you’re raising them in your yard and you care for them as
companions, if you allow enough space for them to roam freely within that containment and I
don’t know exactly what the unit you know per square foot is per chicken.
Councilman McDonald: Well and the other thing, how do you address the issue of the chickens
attracting predators. There’s a lot of coyotes in the area. Bobcats. There’s all of those things
and if we now go into a residential area, doesn’t this become a magnet for those types of
animals?
Jennifer Nuesse: I assume it may, but we had a raccoon in our yard 2 weeks ago, or 3 weeks ago
and it was there all under it’s own accord during the daytime. I don’t know that we’re zoned
th
rural residential. We have just about 8/10 of an acre where we are right now and we have deer
roaming freely through our yard. We have turkeys not more than a half a block away. One of
the stables that you mentioned is a block and a half away from us also. So our neighbors can
raise horses but we can’t have a few chickens.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Anyone else?
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Ellen Wolaner: Stephanie and I are going to avoid the podium because of height issues. Is that
okay?
Mayor Furlong: I think that’s fine. Hopefully we can get the camera turned over so that they
can see you at home. No, it’s the one up here but go ahead. If you can state your name.
Ellen Wolaner: Okay. You can tell we’ve never been up here before.
Mayor Furlong: That’s fine. You’re welcome.
Ellen Wolaner: I’m Ellen Wolaner. You all received an email from me late last week. This is
my daughter Stephanie Hodel and I’m going to talk very, very briefly. She’s my star today.
We’re here because as you know from my email we have an interest in hen chickens as I would
call them as pets. We don’t have any right now. As pets and as 4H animals. David, our son
refused to miss soccer practice tonight so he’s not here so Stephanie will be speaking on behalf
of both of them in just a minute but two comments I wanted to make on my own behalf. I come
from, I’m a city girl who had a beckoning to agriculture some 30 years ago and so I have both
the background, a degree in agriculture as well as a real affection for it. I also have, much like
Jenni was just saying, I have a serious commitment to local food and sustainability. Todd is
wondering where he recognizes me from and it’s from back in 2002-2003 I was the master
gardener that partnered with Jill Sinclair to start the Chanhassen Community Gardens which got
the City of Chanhassen a Green Award. This is my thing since way back before it got popular. I
feel very much that way about this topic for my children, as a way of having them know where
their food is coming from. We garden at home. Both kids have vegetable gardens. I have a
vegetable garden. I’m committed very much to the concept of local food. I’ve been active at
Lakewinds for that purpose as well. And so that is, so you know as Stephanie’s mother, that’s
where I am coming from. And I’m going to turn it over now to my daughter. Thank you.
Stephanie Hodel: My brother couldn’t be here so he wrote a little thing. He says if you have
chickens you can get eggs without going to the supermarket. If you have chickens you can learn
about farming and watching chickens lay eggs is cool to see, and that’s David Hodel who’s 9.
And I’m Stephanie Hodel. I’m 11 years old and I live in the city of Chanhassen and I’m here to
ask you if I can have chickens at my home. I want chickens because they’re a great pet. Lots of
chickens, or lots of kids have chickens and love having them around. Chickens love to be held.
They produce fresh eggs and I would take good care of my chickens just like I do with my dog
Uber. If I am allowed to have chickens I hope you will come to see them at the Carver County
Fair. I hope to bring them there as a part of 4H. Thank you for your time and I hope you say
yes.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions? No? Very good, thank you. If you can stand at
the podium I’m appreciate it. It’s just a little easier for the people at home. Thank you. Please
state your name and address please.
Devin Abbott: I am Devin Abbott. I am 10.
Kelsey Frenzel: I’m Kelsey Frenzel and I’m 11.
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Great. And where do you live? What’s your address?
Devin Abbott: My address is 6420 Pleasant Park Drive, right down the road from Stephanie.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you.
Kelsey Frenzel: I live in Minnetonka.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, what’s your address?
Kelsey Frenzel: My address is 5818 Sailsbury Avenue.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you.
Kelsey Frenzel: I’m here because I’m supporting my friend and her family for getting chickens
because my grampa lives in Bemidji and that’s the only time I ever get to see chickens.
Sometimes I don’t even get to because I’m not there long enough and if I was able to like just
know that either like my friend had them, I’d be able to just go to her house and look at them
and…to Bemidji which is a 5 hour drive.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Devin Abbott: Where I used to keep my horses, I have 3 of them but we do not have them in our
back yard. We board them at a facility and where we used to have them they used to have
chickens and I would help out and they were great to be around. I’d collect the eggs. It was very
fun. Me and my brother and sister would go in and pet them and grab eggs and we had a great
time and I think it would be great for Stephanie and David to have some of their own.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Very good, thank you. Anyone else? Good evening.
Chris Arnoldy: Hi. My name’s Chris Arnoldy. I am the next door neighbor for Ellen and
Stephanie. I’m very appreciative that they phoned this afternoon to tell me about this hearing
this evening. I can honestly tell you that when I got up this morning I didn’t know I’d be coming
down here talking about chickens and chicken coops. And I have the inevitable task of being the
only person here with a different opinion about this. I guess you know the thing for me is that
the idea of getting up in the morning, just as a neighbor and Todd you mentioned it. There’s a
number of things they sort of can qualify as nuisances. It can be a person’s yard. It can be a
barking dog. Those are things that you think that you might need to deal with when you move
into a community and into a neighborhood. Those are expectations that you have. Honestly
until this morning it never would have crossed my mind that I might get up in the morning and
look 60 feet out my window to a chicken coop, and I can honestly tell you that I’m really not
interested in seeing that. Everything else aside I think that it’s just not the kind of thing that’s
appropriate for a residential neighborhood. It’s not a domesticated pet. It’s not a dog. It’s not a
cat. It’s not something your kids really play with. It’s a different kind of animal. And so I
would just encourage you to look closely at the research that’s been done. I think it sounded like
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
good, sound research. I think that the definitions that you’ve put in place to cauterize what’s
been a long standing community policy makes sense and I think it’s a good decision to make to
clarify those rules and make sure that we all understand what they are, but I think that if you
lined up 10 people in a neighborhood with home values of the like that we have on Pleasant
View, you’d find 10 people that said they didn’t want to get up in the morning and look 60 feet
out at a chicken coop. I have no doubt about that. Everything else aside so I just wanted to stand
up and say that you know I would be opposed very much so to making any kind of decision
allowing livestock or farm animals into a residential area. And of course I’m open to any
questions you might have.
Mayor Furlong: Any questions?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Did you state your address?
Chris Arnoldy: I’m at 350 Pleasant View Road.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Very good. Thank you.
Chris Arnoldy: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Appreciate it. Anyone else? Please sir.
Dewey Hassig: I’m Dewey Hassig. I live at 5342 Mayview Road in Minnetonka and I keep 5
chickens and 3 bee hives there in a half acre yard. I guess most, some of the other people have
addressed some of the issues I wanted to talk about but I would like to offer to the staff this, a
copy of the Minnetonka Farm Animal Ordinance and then also their definitions where, with a
half acre yard you’re allowed 5 chickens or 5 small farm animals and a small farm animal being
defined as under 100 pounds, which is pretty liberal by my terms but, and then if you had to have
an animal over 100 pounds you need 1 acre, and it mentions chickens, or fowl specifically being
allowed 5 per half acre and then scaled proportionately depending on the size of the property.
And one comment I wanted to make was just the fact that chickens are probably better suited to
the city than dogs are because they are not predators and they’re, well you know sometimes
they’ll get in the mood where they’re clucking loud but they’re not as loud as a dog barking so
other than that if any of you had any questions on keeping chickens or bees, I’d be happy to
answer them.
Mayor Furlong: Any questions?
Councilwoman Ernst: I’m just curious. How many bees do you have?
Dewey Hassig: Three hives.
Councilwoman Ernst: Three hives. So what do you do with it? Do you make honey? I mean do
you produce anything from it or do you?
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Dewey Hassig: Right. The bee, each bee hive.
Councilwoman Ernst: I guess my question is do you get an income from it?
Dewey Hassig: Income but not profit.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay.
Dewey Hassig: Because I sell it at Fresh Seasons Market in Glen Lake.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Speak this evening. Okay. Very good. We
appreciate everybody’s comments and interest on this. Let’s bring it back to council for thoughts
and discussion. Anyone like to start?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Alright. I’m always the one… I’ll start the firing line here. You
know I’ve been thinking a lot about this and for some reason I just can’t, as a council I think
we’re pretty progressive people. We’ve allowed hunting still in our town and we’ve allowed
snowmobiling still in parts of town and I think we try to be a council that doesn’t necessarily say
no to what people, what they find enjoyable in our town. And for this and I’m hesitant because I
know it’s a way, way slippery slope when it comes to chickens which leads to a whole other
cluster of animals and all of a sudden we have people setting up mini-hobby farms in their back
yard and that certainly is not what I see as a vision for our town or anybody else does and that
certainly is not what I am promoting. But I guess in, when you think about the other creatures
we have living in our homes, it really is up to us to clean up after them and to make sure they’re
not being a nuisance to our neighbors and I don’t see how chickens are any different. I think that
it is, we’re in a time and an era where people are interested in growing their own food and eating
healthier and I think that if they can do that and if they can do it by simply having 2 or 3
chickens in their back yard, if they’re well taken care of, I am not seeing a huge problem with it.
But like I said, I understand people’s concerns and I’m certainly not promoting people setting up
mini agricultural hobby farms in their back yard for sustainability. You know I think we are a
community that tries to be respectful of our property and of other people’s property and of course
the livability, quality of life for our residents and neighbors around us is something we all take
into consideration in our every day lives and so I guess I would be one that would be supporting
allowing, with parameters, people allowing, having chickens in their back yard.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Other thoughts and comments.
Councilman Litsey: I’d be happy to comment.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Litsey.
Councilman Litsey: I’m looking at it from two aspects. One is from a nuisance side I think it’s
important to better define it because one that gets to enforce nuisance ordinances, it is
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
problematic and it can be hard to define and it’s judgments and other things so I thin we need to
define it better and I think we’ve done that in this ordinance so I think that’s a good thing. Or the
proposed changes here. The other thing though is, having raised chickens and been around them
and so forth as a youth, I understand their value is, it was great. Growing up on a hobby farm
and having horses and chickens and large gardens and so forth and I think that’s very appropriate
and a real learning tool for kids and all that. However in an urban, residential environment I just
have a hard time knowing a little bit about it, I just don’t think that’s an appropriate place to have
them so I’m inclined to actually support what’s here. I think that’s the most prudent approach
so.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other thoughts? Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah. Go ahead if you want to go ahead.
Councilwoman Ernst: Kate maybe this, I don’t know if this is a question for you or Todd or
Laurie but can you give me an idea, I know we have chickens in the city today. How many
complaints do we get on that? Do you have any idea? Do we get any complaints? I should ask
that question.
Todd Gerhardt: I think we received one phone call in the last 5 years.
Kate Aanenson: But I’d also like to add we do get requests and we tell people they can’t have
them. Are there some people that have them? Potentially. I just want to give historically, we
did have a subdivision, the Springfield neighborhood went into an area where there was an active
chicken property. That was a constant nuisance problem because the chickens were in the
swimming pool and on people’s front porches visiting and that was a constant nuisance for the
city. We learned a lot about chickens through those years, and eventually it became such a
nuisance that the property owner did decided to sell because he wanted to keep the chickens so
that was when it was actually the change in use becomes, so you have an urban setting.
Traditional higher end homes next to a rural and the contradiction doesn’t always work as we’ve
heard here tonight. Sometimes the site change.
Councilwoman Ernst: How long ago was that?
Kate Aanenson: Oh when Springfield went in. The mid 90’s. Late 90’s.
Councilwoman Ernst: Well I really, you know I’ve had some experience with this actually. This
ordinance and chickens and I’ve had the opportunity to talk to some of those people that had
chickens and I like the ordinance that the gentleman had from Minnetonka putting a limitation on
how many chickens you can have, but I agree with Councilwoman Tjornhom. I really, I have to
tell you that I think cats are more of a nuisance than what I’ve heard about chickens. They come
into the yard. They sit on my lawn furniture. They do that sort of thing and really I don’t see
chickens doing that and because they’re, cats in my opinion are more of a nuisance than I know
about chickens. So, but you know I’d really like to take this to another level and I should have
caught this before when we were reviewing it but I’m also seeing hamsters and gerbils and
rabbits as being a part of this, right?
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Kate Aanenson: That’s the definition of household pets. We’re adding, clarifying that so again
clarifying what’s a household pet.
Councilwoman Ernst: So they can have those?
Kate Aanenson: They can.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. I just wanted to be clear.
Kate Aanenson: We’re expanding that just to be clear, yes.
Councilwoman Ernst: Alright. So I would, I would also support the opinion of having chickens
but putting a limit as to how many they can have and I think that that’s something that we could
take a look at.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Councilman McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Well, the bottom line is I’m going to agree with Councilman Litsey on
this. I too had experience with chickens and chickens are high maintenance. I tend to agree that
there is a proper setting for chickens and a residential neighborhood is not that setting. Chickens
create problems. You’ve got to watch them constantly. They’re not like dogs and cats. They
are different. Yes, it’s great to go out and get the eggs. I did all that and you know you feed
them. You’ve got to feed them so many times a day. You’ve got to take care of them. I worry
about the mess that they create. We’re just I think setting ourselves up because again without
limitations everybody is not going to be as good a steward of raising their own food as what you
are, and those are the people I think we have to deal with and you deal with chickens for a while
and pretty soon it’s just turn them loose. That’s what happens. I see them as being more of a
nuisance than dogs or cats. Especially cats because cats don’t make a lot of noise. I mean
granted they come in your yard and those kind of things.
Councilwoman Ernst: They do sleep on my furniture that I don’t like.
Councilman McDonald: Well then don’t invite them into the house, but yeah I just, I remember
what it was like when I was a kid with those chickens and it was just a constant thing and if you
don’t watch them, they get out of control so I don’t think that chickens belong in a residential
neighborhood. I don’t think that’s what people move here for when they invest in some of this
property. The prices that people are paying for their property. They’re not looking to be in a
farm setting. They complain now because they move in next to what is a working farm and the
first thing you hear about is the smell so I don’t think that’s what, I think that’s part of the clash
that happens between city and farm dwellers and in every case the farm usually loses and they
end up moving further out so, no I would support the ordinance as it is. No chickens.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. And people ask why we run for these. Wow. It is
important and clearly this issue is very important to the people that came here this evening. To
the children as well as the parents and what they’re looking to do and so I don’t want to make
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
light of the seriousness of this because it is serious and I can tell that it’s important to you. The
Planning Commission moved this forward to us with a recommendation to approve on a 3-2
vote. It’s very rare that we see that type of mixed view from the Planning Commission. Usually
it’s pretty clean. Sometimes it might be 1 or 2 dissenting but rarely do we see an even split. I
think we’re going to see that again this evening clearly given the comments that have already
been made. But what that tells me is that there are differences of opinions here and there are a
variety of issues, a variety of things that we can look at. I think what I’ve heard this evening is
that nuisances like beauty are in the eye of the beholder and whenever we’re dealing with that
with our reason it is a challenge to try to define what’s a nuisance. You know we heard what
Minnetonka’s done. We have in our staff report what other cities have done. All cities try to
find that balance and this is one where that balance may be difficult to find. Ultimately as I try
to look at this, and I agree with Councilwoman Tjornhom to the extent that this is a city that I’ve
always enjoyed that generally tries to allow people to do what they want to do. We have, you
know you can have an open recreational fire here. Some cities prevent that. Or say you can’t do
that. We’ve had snowmobile allowed for a long time. We continue to have hunting in this area.
In fact we sought to expand that to eliminate some nuisances associated with some of the wildlife
that we have in the area. But the challenge with this one is, is what are, from a reasonable
expectation standpoint, what do people reasonably expect and while there are some people who
find it very reasonable to have chickens or other farm animals in their yard of a single family
home, I think the vast majority of people do not believe that that’s a reasonable expectation. I
think Mr. Arnoldy mentioned that you know that’s not something that a lot of people think about.
And I asked a few people when this was coming up just friends and neighbors what do you
think? They said never even thought about that but, and as I talked it through they said well I
can see why people want to do that but I’m not sure that that’s reasonable for them to do it so I
think we could spend a lot of time and effort running down the road and looking for the size of
the lot. To me single family residential lot just not appropriate. I know we heard what’s
happening in half acre in Minnetonka. I don’t see that as something that would fit. You know
do we spend a lot of time looking at sizes of lots and this, that and the other thing and distances
and setbacks and stuff. Knowing that in some situation we’re going to get it wrong and it’s
going to be a nuisance for someone else and so unfortunately from a clean standpoint I would
support the ordinance as it’s written. I think just when people think of farm animals, they think
of farms and agriculture and that’s where they’re being allowed. They don’t think of that in a
single family residential area and I know by doing that we’re telling some people that what they
want to do in their homes they can’t do but I think our role as elected leaders or representative
leaders is to try to do the most good for the most people and try to, try to represent what the
majority of people would think would be a reasonable application of law to the extent that we
have to limit so I am going to go forward and support this this evening and you know to the
extent that we get some individual cases that come up that we can deal with on a variance basis,
so be it but I think from a cleanliness standpoint going forward with what we have tonight I
believe meets that reasonable expectation in an urban setting of what people are looking for.
That balance between public and private and so that’s my thoughts as well is to go forward with
what’s been presented before us this evening. Any other discussion or thoughts?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I just want to make a comment that I noticed that those who have
dealt with chickens are the ones that don’t want them.
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Councilman Litsey: There is a common theme.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’m a country girl that’s…with chickens.
Jennifer Nuesse: Can I speak up? I’ve dealt with chickens and I do want them so I think we do
differ on that as well.
Mayor Furlong: I understand. Thank you.
Jennifer Nuesse: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: And again as I mentioned to everybody, obviously this is, there are differences
of opinions on this clearly and you know people that are here this evening, even this evening that
have differences of opinions and I think we’d find that throughout the city so what our goal is to
try to make the best decision based on the information we have and do what we think does again
the most good for the most people and try to find that reasonable balance between public policy
and private property rights and where area the reasonable expectations in an urban setting so.
With that is there any other discussion? If not, would somebody like to make a motion?
Councilman Litsey: I’ll make the motion that the City Council adopt the proposed amendments
to Chapters 1 and 20 of the City, or Chanhassen City Code as outlined in the staff report.
Mayor Furlong: For item 1(d).
Councilman Litsey: For 1(d), that’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Is that specific to this one? Okay. Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilman McDonald: I’ll second it.
Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any additional discussion?
Councilman Litsey moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the City Council adopt
the proposed amendments to Chapters 1 and 20 of the Chanhassen City Code as outlined in
the staff report regulating animals. All voted in favor except Councilwoman Ernst and
Councilwoman Tjornhom who opposed and the motion carried with a vote of 3 to 2.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you everyone. We appreciate your participation.
CONSENT AGENDA: APPROVE AMENDMENTS TO CITY CODE; CHAPTER 1,
DEFINITIONS AND CHAPTER 20, ZONING REGULATIONS: YARD
REGULATIONS.
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. This item is allow, will allow
for further encroachment, more flexibility into the area that we say or define in the city code that
you can have an encroachment specifically in the code those are identified and we do want to
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
allow for some additional encroachment depending on the type of easement, whether it’s active
or not so we make that determination on a case by case basis. We do process a lot of
encroachment agreements in the city, whether it’s for a sprinkling system or fence, retaining
wall. Those are specifically called out but there’s some other structures that aren’t and so by
allowing this amendment it does provide greater flexibility for the encroachment. Again the
staff report you know fire pits, sidewalks, pathways which we do want to have allow those sort
of things to encroach in, but again that would provide a greater flexibility, especially on large
lots, or lots that have, are encumbered by a larger encroachment agreement. Typically
everybody has a utility easement around which is 10 on the front, 5 on the sides which is pretty
standard but on some lots, if they have a large drainage swale or the like, depending upon how
active it is or how it’s functioning, we would look at that on a case by case basis. So we do want
to provide that flexibility again for our homeowners who have an expectation. I’ve got this large
yard. Why can’t I put something back there so we’ll look at that. How it affects the drainage
area. The grading and those sort of things on those specific lots. So with that we are
recommending amendment to the ordinance specifically the language that calls out some of those
things and if it’s not spelled out specifically we put in the language that the Community
Development Director, obviously with consulting with the engineering department would make
that determination if it seemed to fit the encroachment.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Questions for staff.
Kate Aanenson: Can I just add one thing?
Mayor Furlong: Yes.
Kate Aanenson: Again this is one of those things, I just want to make sure I cleared the process
on this. I don’t think we always have this opportunity, this opportunity to educate residents too.
On this we do just ask some things don’t require a building permit but we always ask that our
residents call us and ask whether or not they need a building permit and we just check on these
sort of things. Some of these structures. Fire pits. Retaining walls, those things so it’s an
opportunity for us to work with our residents and educate them and then if they do need the
encroachment agreement we’ll work with them through the engineering department but this is
one of those things that sometimes people don’t understand how that process works. While they
may not need a building permit, they still may need to get an encroachment agreement or just
review with staff to make sure they’re not over the hard cover. Those sort of things so it’s
educational opportunity.
Mayor Furlong: And I think that’s important and I appreciate that and one of the reasons why I
wanted to see this discussed a little bit more publicly. The question I have and that’s one of
perhaps semantics within the ordinance here and I’ll refer to Mr. Knutson on this. Under
paragraph 6 which is proposing to be amended. As I read through that I read that the items
listed, fences, retaining walls, non-structural and such may be allowed if they don’t alter the
agreement and if the Community Development Director agrees, that they can be allowed. I
didn’t read that, that other items would be allowed at the discretion of the Community
Development Director and so was that the intent Kate that if something that’s not listed here,
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
fence, retaining wall, non-structural fire pits and such, that other items could be, were you
intending to allow other items besides what’s specifically listed at your discretion?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Could it be a swing set if just has 4 posts? What it’s not intended to
be is a yard barn that has footings or something that would be difficult to move that, you know so
you’re putting these at your risk. If we have to take a section of fence out, you know they’re
advised when they sign the encroachment agreement but if it’s a permanent structure that we
can’t remove, then we wouldn’t.
Mayor Furlong: Right, and so I guess I’m, is some structure correct there? Is that doing what is
intended because I agree with what she’s saying that other items, I mean basically without
limitation.
Roger Knutson: I think it should be, could be made clearer.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilwoman Ernst: I do too.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Because I do want that to make sure that if it’s, I don’t want us to be
prescriptive of only allowing these if other things work.
Roger Knutson: So we’ll just clarify that. It says, and other encroachments.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Okay, that’s fine. Good. Other questions? Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah I have a question. Kate, let me ask you with this I can remember
a couple times when things would come up where structures had been built in easements that
were basically water. How would this have affected something such as that? Would we have
been able to look at things a little bit differently or?
Kate Aanenson: No again it depends on the structure. If it’s a permanent structure such as like a
gazebo or something like that that’s affecting the drainage of an area and in some circumstances
we’ve created swales to remove water from properties, so if it’s a structure like that, that’s, if it’s
a fire pit that’s a temporary thing that is not.
Councilman McDonald: It doesn’t block and it doesn’t create.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, so you have to kind of look at that and that’s something we looked on a
case by case basis. How much grading is involved? Is it something that can be easily removed?
If it’s just a fire ring, that sort of thing. If it ends up being a massive structure that ultimately
would affect the drainage so that’s why I say we look at it on a case by case basis. I mean that’s
why we always approve those, even though they might not need a building permit, we would still
…they go through planning and engineering and building to make sure structurally. What’s en
vogue right now is some of those, they’re actually cooking fireplaces that are outside.
Sometimes those end up in areas that we want to make sure that, they’re a pretty sizeable
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
investment. Maybe has a cupola or something on it and nice covered portico so they end up
being pretty elaborate so we’re again, while they may think it’s in a, just in part of the back yard.
If it’s in a drainage, those are the ones we want to make sure we’re addressing.
Roger Knutson: Mayor, members of the council. In our encroachment agreements we provide
generally that if your encroachment interferes with our easement needs, because we need to put
in a new pipe or something else, you’ve got to get it out of there at your expense. And because
of that, I mean you wouldn’t want someone to build an addition to their house over that
easement. I mean that would be, because then you would, because you don’t want to knock on
the door and someday say I’m sorry, you’ve got to take down your bedroom. That doesn’t work.
Councilman McDonald: Okay but in that particular case that would require a building permit
which would give us an inside on whether…
Kate Aanenson: Right, there’s a couple issues on some of those. If it’s over 120 square feet it
requires a building permit. If it needs footings. All those things that, you know if it’s a small
stretch of retaining wall, and that’s where, the homeowner, once we advise them and have that
educational part and they realize they have to sign an encroachment agreement, realize what their
obligation is, typically people move from that and try to find other ways. And that gives that
opportunity for us to help them, what do they want to accomplish. How can we make that work.
Councilman McDonald: I guess what I was asking was, because you’ve got patios and those
things in there and in a particular case I’m thinking of, while it started out with that and then
grew to something else and that’s what I was just wondering, does this help us in any of that and
it sounds as though it’s still up to the individual homeowner and there’s still some educational
component.
Kate Aanenson: Exactly. The biggest part is to educate with our homeowners. Why the
easement’s there. Always to remind them of that and whether it’s a drainage swale or utility
easement, if their causing water by the neighbor’s property and we’ve had that experience where
we’ve had super rain events where we don’t think something’s going to happen but it does and
that’s why we always advise people that it’s there for their neighbor’s protection too. So it’s an
educational opportunity so again.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, and what this does before you didn’t have a lot of latitude with
some of this stuff so now what happens is, at least from an educational standpoint you may be
able to do something and these are the types of things that we would be willing to look at. It
doesn’t guarantee we’re going to agree to anything but again now you have some flexibility by
this changes.
Kate Aanenson: Right, well the literal interpretation only allows you a few things to encroach.
In the interest of fairness and making sure that there’s clarity on these issues we expanded that to
say we want, and other things to encroach because really there was really only 2 or 3 things that
could encroach into. If you look at the original one that were allowed to go in there, it was very
narrow.
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Fences.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, fences. And we have other requests and then how come they got it?
How come I didn’t get it so we just want to be clear that we’ll make that decision based on how
the utility easement’s being used. If a swing set versus a very large expanse of cooking over
that’s going to be very costly to do at $10,000, $15,000. That’s a big difference and working
through that education process.
Mayor Furlong: And to be clear, the City has been entering into a number of these encroachment
agreements. They’re handled administratively. The City Manager and I sign them on a very
routine basis and you know the issues that I’m hearing here are issues that I think about when I
look at those. If it’s a drainage and utility easement, is what they’re proposing going to affect
drainage, especially onto their neighbor’s property. I’m not that worried if something backs up
into their own property. I’m worried if it goes to someone else. They can handle their own
property, and I think to Mr. Knutson’s point, all these have that 30 day language that you have to
remove it, which I’m sure from a legal standpoint it feels good. I’m always a little concerned
when somebody’s looking at putting in something structural and we have in those agreements
that 30 day and I, you know while it might be in there you know, that’s always a little concerning
when I sign those and I think we need to.
Roger Knutson: That’s why we want Mayor, it’s also concerning I think from our perspective.
We want to be concerned about how much money are you investing.
Mayor Furlong: Right.
Roger Knutson: If it’s a large investment, I unfortunately have had to litigate situations where
people have put, without permission, things of high value in those easements and they didn’t like
it when we said they had to come out.
Mayor Furlong: And I, so I think that the City has been accommodating in the past. I think what
this is doing is codifying that accommodation that’s been provided. I absolutely support this and
I’m glad that we clarified that language to make sure that this is not an exclusive list but one that
is a partial list and if there’s something else, whether it’s a swing set or whether it’s other things,
come and look at it. We have some properties that have, and I think the picture in the staff
report, unfortunately we have a number of properties that have their much, if not all of their back
yard is an easement and when somebody buys the house, even if that’s on the survey, they’re
looking at having their family live there and this is going to be their home and they expect to use
that and reasonable use and so I think I’m glad that the staff is taking a position. One of the
things that I would suggest, and if the rest of the council is interested in doing this, is we have a
number of developments that have gone in over the years that have these types of situations
where a substantial portion of the yard is covered by an easement. Whether it’s drainage and
utility easement. Whether it’s a conservation easement. Tree preservation. Those types of
things. And now that the development’s are in, I’m not questioning whether or not it was right to
do at the time. The council’s did what they thought was right, but I’m wondering if there’s an
opportunity for us maybe to go back and look and have staff look at some of the neighborhoods
where we have substantial types of easements on some of the subdivisions and re-evaluate the
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
need there. Maybe have a work session we can talk about that. I’m not looking for direction or
any response even from the council tonight other than to say that you know this is an example
that we see quite often and maybe I’m seeing it a little bit more because I’m signing these
encroachment agreements, but this is not, I would say this is not unique. There are a number of
properties that are like that and it may be the type of thing that we can do some clean-up now
that we have the benefit of hindsight which we never have at the time we’re approving a plat.
We’re doing the best we can with the information we have but now that we have that, you know
we know where the utilities are. We know where the conservation, and there may be some
opportunities there. So that may be something we can bring to a work session. Talk a little bit
more about it. Get staff’s opinion on it as well as thoughts from the council, but in terms of this
proposal here this evening, certainly if there are any other comments. I don’t know that there’s
any public comments here on this. It seems to make sense and I think with the clarification of
the language, did you come up with some language then or just some additional language that we
can amend the proposal here? And other encroachments?
Roger Knutson: Sidewalks, pathways and patios not integral to the principle structure.
Kate Aanenson: Can I get some clarity on that? We require 10 foot of, when you have an
opening door because we have.
Mayor Furlong: Right, right.
Kate Aanenson: We didn’t put a patio wall there and then there’s an expectation.
Mayor Furlong: No. Right.
Kate Aanenson: So they have to provide at least a 10 foot pad. The reason we thought about
this is that, going back to what the city attorney said. If you put a patio adjacent to the house, it’s
already into the drainage area.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: That might be expressed in order to get that structure you’re also affecting the
integrity of the house so it’s not intended to be in that close proximity.
Mayor Furlong: But when we provide, when we do site plans now, our current ordinance
requires a 10 by 10 patio area or deck area.
Kate Aanenson: Correct, to be calculated…
Mayor Furlong: To be calculated that was outside of an easement situation.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Right.
Mayor Furlong: We ought to approve it so.
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Kate Aanenson: That’s just clarifying that.
Mayor Furlong: Right.
Kate Aanenson: That thought right in the parenthesis. That’s what that’s clarifying then.
Mayor Furlong: I just wanted to make sure, is there some language that we can clarify that other
items are available. Other encroachments are available at the direction, discretion. Excuse me.
Roger Knutson: Mayor, might I suggest it could be placed is after the parenthetical considered
integral parenthesis comma. Add and other encroachments may be allowed.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. And then the rest of it would read as presented?
Roger Knutson: That’d be fine.
Mayor Furlong: Consistent with what we talked about? Very good. Thank you. Any other
discussion? If not is there a motion?
Councilwoman Ernst: I’ll make it.
Mayor Furlong: Please.
Councilwoman Ernst: I make a motion that we adopt the proposed amendments to Chapter 20 of
the Chanhassen City Code with the following amendment. Inserting in paragraph 6, after the
sentence the first 10 feet adjacent to the principle structure shall be considered integral, and other
encroachments be inserted.
Mayor Furlong: I think that’s consistent. Okay, thank you. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion?
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded that the City Council
adopts the proposed amendments to Chapter 20 of the Chanhassen City Code regarding
yard regulations, and amending Section 20-908(6) to insert the phrase “and other
encroachments may be allowed.” All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously
with a vote of 5 to 0.
CONSIDERATION OF APPOINTMENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
Mayor Furlong: As I mentioned at the beginning of the meeting, Kurt Papke who was a planning
commissioner has resigned his seat and at this time we did have a number of, or we do have a
current vacancy. Immediate vacancy on the Planning Commission. Earlier this year the council
interviewed a number of candidates for the Planning Commission and I guess at this time I
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
would ask council if there’s a desire to appoint someone to that vacancy. Councilwoman
Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yes, I would like to make the motion to appoint someone to the, I’m
sorry I’ve got to find it. You were talking too fast. Here it is. I would like to make a motion
that we appoint Tom Doll to the Chanhassen Planning Commission replacing or filling in for
Kurt Papke’s position.
Mayor Furlong: Term.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Term, sorry.
Mayor Furlong: His remaining term which is approximately 2 1/2 years. Thank you. Is there a
second?
Councilman Litsey: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any discussion?
Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman Litsey seconded to appoint Tom Doll to fill
the remaining term of Kurt Papke on the Planning Commission. All voted in favor and
the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS:
Mayor Furlong: A couple things I’d like to mention. We have the benefit in this city of some
great civic organizations. The Lion’s Club is one of them. They just had a picnic for the seniors
out at Lake Ann picnic shelter. This is an event that they’ve been doing for a number of years, is
that correct Mr. Hoffman?
Todd Hoffman: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: And I didn’t hear specific turnouts. I don’t know if you have that information.
Todd Hoffman: 120.
Mayor Furlong: 120 people, and this is a, they do as part of their community service and just
inviting members of our city, citizens, senior citizens out to have a picnic at Lake Ann so want to
recognize them and thank them for their service. The other thing, the other club that does a lot to
the city, and I will do this as more of a community announcement, and that’s for the Rotary
Club. One of the functions that the Chanhassen Rotary Club provides is hosting a foreign
exchange student and this year they have a student coming in, a young woman coming in from,
is it Finland? Does that sound right?
Councilman McDonald: Yes.
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Mayor Furlong: From Finland for the 2009-2010 school year. She will be a junior at
Chanhassen High School during the year, so if there are any families out there who will have
students at Chanhassen High School that might be interested in hosting a foreign exchange
student for part of the year. The way the Rotary Club works is there are actually three-4 month
periods so it’s not a full year commitment but they can certainly get in touch. Check out the
Chanhassen Rotary site or Rotary web site would be the best way. I don’t have a contact number
but you can contact me or, and I’d be happy to get you in touch with someone as well but if
somebody’s interested in doing that I know it would be a great experience as well. If there are
no other council presentations, administrative presentations. Mr. Gerhardt.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
Todd Gerhardt: I want to thank both Councilmember Tjornhom and Commissioner Workman
for assisting us with the scope change on the downtown park and ride parking ramp. We had a
request in to change the scope of the project to free up additional money for the additional cost in
building the road and the infrastructure to the new ramp that would be located behind the Dinner
Theater. There is one condition that was placed on there that we have to enter into a joint use
agreement with Southwest Transit to use additional parking out at Lake Ann up to 100 stalls so
staff will be preparing a joint use agreement with the assistance of our city attorney and bring
that back before the council for your consideration. This basically this addition would free up
about $1.2 million dollars and make that project a go so thank you Bethany for all your work.
Tom also knew a couple of the board members and talked to them so it was a successful process
and Southwest Metro Transit also entered into an agreement for engineers and architectural
services last Thursday so they’re committed to move ahead on the project and probably see site
plan approval sometime August-September would be my guess so. I also want to recognize Sue
Bill, our Senior Coordinator. Sue did a fantastic job this last Friday out at Lake Ann, our new
park pavilion. We hosted 145 seniors for a picnic out there and Sue did a great job. I got a lot of
positive feedback from some of the participants out there and they had a great time and the
weather was great so I just wanted to recognize Sue and her efforts. And that’s all I have.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions? I’m wondering can we get a quick update Mr.
Oehme on the status of the street projects.
Paul Oehme: Sure.
Mayor Furlong: We’ve got 3 different neighborhoods that are involved.
Paul Oehme: Yep. This year’s project is going along probably about half way done now with
the projects. A little slower than we anticipated. Some scheduling glitches but working through
those right now. Just a real quick update. The rural residential streets that we ground up and re-
paved this year, that area is completely done. The Pontiac Lane, Pontiac Circle area. That is all
the curb and sidewalk areas have been replaced with new concrete in efficient areas. We’re
working on the streets now, replacing some of the settled and alligatored pavement areas. And
then we hope to have those streets paved here within the next 2 to 3 weeks so that. And then the
thth
industrial areas off of 78 Street, 77. Quattro area. That’s being worked on as we speak with
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
some curb and gutter work and milling out there probably next week already so coming along.
End of the month. End of July we should have the project more or less wrapped up.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And throughout the city, all them?
Paul Oehme: Throughout, yeah. Throughout the city.
Mayor Furlong: Sounds great. Very good. Any issues or complaints or concerns from residents
that we need to be aware?
Paul Oehme: Well we’ve worked through several of them. We’ve had some defective driveway.
We had to cut out a couple driveway aprons at the front. To match in the new curb and gutter.
There was some defective workmanship there. We worked through the, with the contractor so
we had, and then there were some scheduling glitches like I had mentioned that we worked
through with the contractor too so. All in all it’s going okay but we’re working through the
issues right now. Trying to address residents concerns on a daily basis. One other note too,
starting tomorrow Laredo Drive we’ll have the wear course paved so that project will completely
be wrapped hopefully by then so I’m sure the residents in that area will be happy to have that
project completed.
Mayor Furlong: I’m sure they will. Very good. Thank you.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. I think you may have received some complaints where some of
our contractors had been working outside of our regular work hours. Been talking with our city
engineer and we’re going to probably introduce some language into our contracts with sub-
contractors and contractors that work for us that there are penalties if you work outside those
hours and make something a little stronger in our agreements with them. They continue to not
listen as we talk about those in our pre-construction meetings and weekly construction meetings
so you know I think we might have to hit them in the pocket book as we try to get their attention.
Councilman Litsey: Specific to that is the Lotus Lake…drainage project or is there others too?
Todd Gerhardt: There are others too so. Some of our mill and overlay projects where they
worked late into the evening.
Councilman Litsey: No, I think that’d be appropriate just seeing some of the complaints
generated in the neighborhood where I am from that project and then put a little teeth into the
agreements so that they have incentive to comply.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah, can I ask a question about that because of some of the things that
were going on, it looks as though some of it may have been a little egregious. Do we have
anything in there now where we can do anything or is that why we need to look in the future of
making sure those clauses are there?
Todd Gerhardt: Well it gets back to our earlier discussion regarding nuisance. We can go ahead
and cite individuals if they’re working outside our ordinance hours. We wanted to get something
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
into the agreement that might be a little stiffer and to get their attention but I believe we did cite
one of them working outside our regular work hours.
Councilman McDonald: Okay because one of the things a resident brought up was the fact that
if they’re doing this in order to gain an advantage of being able to finish early you know to get a
monetary reward, what do we have to be able to say no. You’re not going to get that because of
the.
Todd Gerhardt: We don’t have an incentive like that in any of our contracts. You would see that
with your larger projects. Bridge projects. 212 project had that. I don’t know of any that we
have.
Councilman Litsey: Do they seem to be listening now?
Paul Oehme: They seem to be, yeah. We’ve sat down with them and explained our issues pretty
forcefully I think so yeah. I think so and it’s to their benefit to listen to us I mean I think. The
council would have heartburn if we continue to have for future contracts, and those type of
contractors that egregiously break our ordinances so.
Councilman Litsey: And I was just, oh I’m.
Mayor Furlong: No.
Councilman Litsey: I was just going to say that I do want to commend staff and those involved
in those projects for when there’s been complaints that you’ve been right on them and have been
responsive and you know there’s only so much you can do after the fact but I think it speaks well
of the city how they’ve responded so thank you.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah, and I did want to add that I thought Terry did an excellent job of
trying to again bridge that gap between residents complaints and dealing with the contractors.
My hat’s off to the way that he handled that whole thing.
Mayor Furlong: And these work rules are the same as we require of any contractor working in
the city, whether or not it’s a contractor working for the city or a private individual or others.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, that’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: I mean we’re not extending them for our contractors and keeping…for others.
Paul Oehme: No, absolutely not. Right.
Mayor Furlong: Right. Same for everybody.
Kate Aanenson: It’s even building construction. Same thing.
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Chanhassen City Council Meeting - June 22, 2009
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, so. Very good. Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Gerhardt or any
other comments for staff? No?
CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION.
None.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, there was one item on our agenda tonight, or work session agenda that
we didn’t get to. Do you want to try to do that in 15-20 minutes or?
Todd Gerhardt: If we could hold off until our next meeting and we’ll bring, just call the next
meeting all financial. Bringing everything up to date at that time.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: And due to the hour, I think that’s probably best for everybody.
Mayor Furlong: That’s fine. Very good. With that then is there anything else to come before
the council this evening? If not is there a motion to adjourn?
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded to adjourn the meeting.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City
Council meeting was adjourned at 8:50 p.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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