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6 Town & County Homes PUD CITYOF 7700 Market Boub,,ard PO Bs:,: i47 · ,~ ........... 55317 Administration Pr-,o'-~: 952227.1 iO0 Fa',:: 952.227.11!0 Building Inspections Pn;:-,~: 952.227.1 IS0 :a',:: ~52.227 !1gO Engineering F~-cr:~: 952.227.i!60 Fa;: 952.227.ii70 Finance ?.?¢: 952.227.1140 9,~2.227.1i10 Park & Recreation P': :"~: 952.2!7.i i20 Fax: 952.227.1110 ~:?s:-, Center ecu ter Bsule.,,ara x'~-s",e: 952.227.1400 952.227.1404 Planning & Natural Resources ?:::.':e: 952.227.1 !30 Fa:,:: ~,~,,.-.,.,..,'. ii0 c.~"~ qq- 1 Public Works ?hoze: 952.227.i300 Fa>:: 952.227.1310 Senior Center v~,~n~. 952.227.1125 Fa:,:: 952.227.11i0 Web Site ',' ',.,; chanhassen mn.us MEMORANDUM TO: Todd Gerhardt, City Manager FROM: DATE: Kate Aanenson, AICP Community Development Director October 28, 2002 SUB J: Concept PUD of 88.5 acres of property for 540 residential units Executive Summary Town and Country Homes is requesting a conceptual PUD rezoning to allow for a mix of residential development. The Planning Commission discussed this item on two occasions; the first on August 6th and the second time on October 15th. The Commission tabled any action on this item for additional information. The staff held two work sessions between the meetings to inform the commission and the council as to how the land uses in the 2005 MUSA area were selected and then the commission took a field trip to visit to other large mixed use projects. The majority of the discussion revolved around the issue of whether or not this propmxy should be developed as industrial or residential. It is guided for either one. At their October 15th meeting the commission recommended the approval of the concept PUD for medium density residential development. Some of the planning commissioners felt that the concept PUD was not a complete application and furthermore there was not enough information to give conceptual PUD. It is staff's opinion that the requests that the planning commission had made (see attachment) will be addressed in conditions of approval in either the AUAR (environmental assessment document) or the development of the PUD standards. The planning commission issues are relevant and will be addressed before the next level of review. The Planning Commission asked for a Fiscal Impact Study. This item was addressed through a tax comparison of 10 acres of development developed as single family, medium density residential or industrial. The medium density residential and industrial taxes generated were comparable. Additionally, the commission wanted a cost analysis. The City Manager and the Finance Director have addressed this issue. There is not a model available to track this broad of a question. Staff is seeking clarity of this request and possibly removing it as a condition of approval. The conditions have been modified to reflect the recommendations of the Planning Commission. The ~ity o! Chanhassen ·/:. ¢rov, i~ community w¢th clean lakes. ¢qualfty schoo!s, a charmino., downtown, thrivine~ bu*~, nesses, v,'indine, trails, and beautiful parks. A c,~at~ .place :~,,,~ . i~.:~, u'~lrk,,~.~. ~;.u2-rifl Dlay. Todd Gerhardt October 28, 2002 Page 2 Recommendation Staff recommends that the City Council approve the concept PUD with the following conditions' o The applicant shall contribute to the preparation of an Alternative Urban Area Wide Review (AUAR) in lieu of an EAW for the 2005 MUSA area. The AUAR shall study the following issues: a. Public facilities-school, park, utilities, fire station b. Environmental features-Bluff Creek Overlay District, Wetlands/bluffs, open space and trees. c. Transportation system-traffic/road plan and the ongoing considerations of the existing studies and reports, the design and the construction of Hwy. 312 and Powers Boulevard. d. Utilities-Sewer, Water, Storm Sewer e. In addition, the AUAR shall address the following issues: i. Potential school sites, fire station, water tower, and creek crossing. Collector road systems as well as traffic, infrastructure requirements: sewer, water, storm sewer and natural resources including wetlands, trees and slopes. f. Fiscal tax study . A Medium Density PUD shall be created with the following items addressed: landscaping (entrance, streetscape and buffering transitions, uses and density), possible support commercial, neighborhood connections (trails and sidewalks), design standards (materials, architectural details and variety), transit (slip off lanes), public access to park areas, preservation of natural features (bluffs, wetland, trees), housing plan (range of product and price). 3. The applicant shall petition the City for city services (sewer, water, etc.). 4. The applicant shall develop a housing diversity plan. . All wetlands on-site shall be delineated by a qualified wetland delineator, checked by City staff and surveyed by a registered land surveyor prior to the development of more detailed plans for this site. . The applicant shall keep the goals for the Lowlands Region of the Bluff Creek Overlay District in mind as a plan is developed for the site and work with staff to achieve these goals for this property. a. Preserve and manage the high-quality wetland complexes, riparian areas and oak woodlands to extend the high-quality system of the Gorge Region; b. Restore impaired ecosystems to their natural condition; and c. Re-create natural links between major natural features within the Bluff Creek Todd Gerhardt October 28, 2002 Page 3 con-idor. 7. The applicant shall an'ange for the Bluff Creek primary and secondary zone boundaries to be field-verified by staff prior to the development of a more detailed plan for this site. 8. The Building and Fire Marshal comments shall be incorporated into the next level of review. CITY OF PC DATE: 10/15/02 CC DATE: 10/28/02 REVIEW DEADLINE: STAFF REPORT PROPOSAL: Conceptual PUD of 88.5 acres of property for 540 residential units. Z LOCATION: APPLICANT: East side of Audubon Road, south of Lyman Boulevard and north of Pioneer Trail (E 1/2 of the NE lA of Section 27, Twp 116, Rng 23 West) Town & Country Homes 7615 Smetana Lane, Suite 180 Eden Prairie, MN 55344 952-253-0474 b.l PRESENT ZONING: 2020 LANI) USE PLAN: ACREAGE: DENSITY: SUMMARY OF REQUEST: A2, Agricultural Estate Office/Industrial, Residential Medium Density, and Parks and Open Space 87.4 acres =m'oss 71.0 net acres 6.2 units/acre - gross; 7.6 units/acre - net Requesting Concept Planned Unit Development Approval for a multi-family housing project. Notice of this public hearing has been mailed to all property owners within 500 feet. Bernardi Concept PUD October 15, 2002 Page 2 EXECUTIVE SUMMARY Town and Country Homes is requesting a rezoning to allow for a mix residential development. This item was first at the August 6th Planning Commission meeting. The subject site is 88.5 acres (gross) and is currently zoned A-2 (Agricultural Estates). The subject site, the "Bernardi" parcel, is located in the 2005 MUSA area. The applicant is seeking conceptual PUD rezoning approval. Staff recommended the PUD because this site is guided for medium density residential zoning as well as being in the Bluff Creek Overlay district. The tool that the city has to cluster density out of the primary district is the PUD. As per the PUD ordinance "approval of the concept statement shall not obligate the city to approve the final plan or any part thereof or to rezone the property to a planned unit development district." The purpose of the concept plan is to outline the issues that the applicant will have to further develop in order to proceed with preliminary subdivision and rezoning to PUD. The overall review process is anticipated to take a couple of years. Staff is not proposing to advance the MUSA any sooner than 2005. Staff is recommending that as a part of the PUD a variety of housing types (products not currently in the city) and different price points. The city does participate in the Livable Communities Act and has goals for housing diversity and affordability. As a part of this project staff is anticipating that the developer works towards achieving these goals. Since the last Planning Commission meeting staff has worked to inform the Planning Commission on how the land use recommendations were selected in the 2005 MUSA area. In addition the staff has been working to educate the commission on how a substantial PUD can be developed and the importance of the Town and Country project to the greater 2005 MUSA area. Concept PUD - What is required? The intent of the concept plan is to get direction from the commission and council without incurring a lot of expensive. There will be a greater level of detail required through the city code and the conditions of approval in this report. Following are the requirements for conceptual PUD approval. Sec. 20-517 General concept plan. Chanhassen City Code (a) The general concept plan for a PUD provides an opportunity for the applicant to submit a plan to the city showing the basic intent and the general nature of the entire development without incurring substantial cost. The plan shall include the following: (1) Overall gross and net density. (2) Identification of each lot size and lot width. (3) General location of major streets and pedestrian ways. (4) General location and extent of public and common open space. (5) General location and type of land uses and intensities of development. (6) Staging and time schedule for development. (b) The tentative written consent of all property owners within the proposed PUD shall be filed with the city before the staff commences review. Approval of the concept statement shall not Bernardi Concept PUD October 15, 2002 Page 3 obligate the city to approve the final plan or any part thereof or to rezone the property to a planned unit development district. (c) The final acceptance of land uses is subject to the following procedures: (1) The developer meets with the city staff to discuss the proposed developments. (2) The applicant shall file the concept stage application and concept plan, together with all supporting data. (3) The planning commission shall conduct a hearing and report its findings and make recommendations to the city council. Notice of the hearing shall consist of a legal property description, description of request, and be published in the official newspaper at least ten (10) days prior to the hearing, written notification of the hearing shall be mailed at least ten (10) days prior thereto to owners of land within five hundred (500) feet of the boundary of the property and an on-site notification sign erected. (4) Following the receipt of the report and recommendations fi'om the planning commission, the city council shall consider the proposal. If the planning commission fails to make a report within sixty (60) days after receipt of the application, then the city council may proceed without the report. The council may approve the concept plan and attach such conditions, as it deems reasonable. Approval shall require a four-fifths vote of the entire council. Actio~s reqt~ired E~,i;'o~7~e~tal Assess~e~t This project will require an Environmental Assessment Worksheet "EAW" because it will have more that 375 attached dwelling units. Another and more comprehensive alternative to the EAW would be an Alternative Urban Area Wide Review Process (AUAR). The review would include the entire the 2005 study area. The review would include: A. A land use plan designating the existing and proposed location, intensity, and extent of use of land and water for residential, commercial, industrial, agricultural and other public and private purposes. B. A public facilities plan describing the character, location, timing, sequence, function, use, and capacity of existing and future public facilities of the local governmental unit. The public facilities plan must include at least the following parts: 1. A transportation plan describing, designating, and scheduling the location, extent, function, and capacity of existing and proposed location of public and private transportation facilities and services; and 2. A sewage collection system policy plan describing, designating and scheduling the areas to be served by the public system, the existing and planned capacities of the public system, and the standards and conditions under which the installation of private sewage treatment system will be permitted. C. An implementation program describing public programs, fiscal devices, and other actions to be undertaken to implement the comprehensive plan. The implementation plan must include a description of official controls addressing the matters of zoning, subdivision and private sewage systems, a schedule for the implementation of those controls, and a capital improvements program for public facilities. Bernardi Concept PUD October 15, 2002 Page 4 Even though not all of the property is ready to develop at this time, staff is proposing to work with this applicant and other property owners to pursue the AUAR environmental review process. 2. Rezoning Rezoning of this property to medium density or industrial would be consistent with the comprehensive plan. If the commission were to recommend the industrial land use rather than the medium density findings would have to be prepared. BACKGROUND With the development of the comprehensive plan in 1999, this property was given the two land use alternatives: residential or industrial, as well as parks and open space within the Bluff Creek Corridor. The reason it was given both potential land uses was that the site has been and is farmed and is relatively fiat. In calculating the city's 2020 land use designations this 80-acre site was calculated at 50 percent industrial and 50 percent medium density residential. (The city's 2020 land use for industrial zoning was estimated at 1,269 acres or 8.6 percent of ultimate commercial. If this site were to be developed as all residential, there would be 40 acres less of industrial land or a reduction from 1,229 or a percentage reduction of .03 percent to 8.3 percent.) Based on the developer's calculations of net developable (71 acres) with a maximum of 8 units an acre, the maximum number of units could be 568. However all of the standards of the PUD (impervious surface, parking, etc.) must be met before it can be certain how many units can fit on the site. Again design of the housing units will be evaluated as a part of this project. Architectural design standards will be developed as part of the PUD. Staff's direction to the applicant is to provide a variety of housing types and prices within the development. The subject site is anticipated to be in the Metropolitan Service Area in 2005. This does not mean that the area is ready to develop. A plan must be developed as to how the urban services will be installed. There is an existing lift station at Lyman Boulevard that will service this area. A feasibility study will be required to determine where the sewer and water will be placed to serve this area and the cost of assessments. In addition, a road system will have to be developed to serve the rest of the parcels in this area. The AUAR environmental assessment will also help to deten-nine development of the area to be studied and evaluated. Once the AUAR has been developed and the issued scoped it will the input of the cit to work to develop the PUD some guiding principles should be generated. These principles may include key words such as: Sense of Place, Diversity and Balance, Sustainability/Conservation/Preservation, Live work etc. Staff has recommended some specifics issues as a part of the conditions of approval. Bluff Creek Overlay District A part of this site is in the Bluff Creek Overlay District. The tool used to preserve areas within the primary district is density transfers. Again this is why the staff is recommending the PUD zoning. Bernardi Concept PUD October 15, 2002 Page 5 ANALYSIS Following are conceptual comments that the various city divisions have offered as further refines that need to be made for the next level of review. The Alternative Urban Area wide Review Process will address these issues in greater detail. Engineering An east/west collector street will be required to connect the developing area with Audubon Road. The location of the collector will be determined in the future during the preliminary plat design phase. The developer of this parcel will be responsible for building the street; however, the City will pay for the additional expense of constructing the road from a standard street to a collector. This collector street may require crossing Bluff Creek. A trunk sanitary sewer main will be needed to service the development and sun'ounding area. This main will be a gravity flow sewer that drains north to Lift Station #24 at the corner of Audubon & Lyman Blvd. The City has planned for the construction of this trunk sewer main in 2005 within the 5-year CIP (Capital Improvement Program). Likewise, a trunk watermain will also be required to serve the development and surrounding areas. The City has listed this trunk wate~Tnain as a 2005 project in the 5-year CIP. Building Comments a. Accessibility will have to be provided to all portions of the development and a percentage of the units may also be required to be accessible or adaptable in accordance with Minnesota State Building Code Chapter 1341. Further information is needed to determine these requirements. b. The State of Minnesota is in the process of adopting the International Building Code and revising Chapter 1306 of the Minnesota State Building Code regarding fire protection systems. It is not yet entirely clear how these changes will affect residential construction. It is important that the developer meet with the Inspections Division prior to platting the property to determine what ramifications the new codes will have on the project. c. The buildings will be required to be designed by an architect and engineer as determined by the Building Official. d. The developer and or their agent shall meet with the Inspections Division as early as possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures. Fire Marshal Comments The Fire Marshal has reviewed the above rezoning plan. In order to comply with the Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Division, he has the following fire code or city ordinance/policy requirements. The plan review is based on the available information submitted at this time. If additional plans or changes are submitted, the appropriate code or policy items will be addressed. Bernardi Concept PUD October 15, 2002 Page 6 A I O-foot clear space must be maintained around fire hydrants, i.e., street lamps, trees, bushes, shrubs, Qwest, Xcel Energy, cable TV and transformer boxes. This is to ensure that fire hydrants can be quickly located and safely operated by firefighters. Pursuant to Chanhassen City Ordinance #9-1. o When fire protection, including fire apparatus access roads and water supplies for fire protection, is required to be installed such protection shall be installed and made serviceable prior to and during the time of construction. Pursuant to 1997 Minnesota Uniforrn Fire Code Section 901-3. 3. In the cul-de-sacs with the center island "no parking" signs will be required. Contact Chanhassen City Fire Marshal for additional information. 4. No burning permits will be issued for trees to be removed. Trees or shrubs must be either removed from site or chipped. 5. Submit street names to Chanhassen Building Official and Chanhassen Fire Marshal for review and approval. 6. Submit cul-de-sac to Chanhassen City Engineer and Chanhassen Fire Marshal for review and approval. Parks The Park Commission has identified the 2005 MUSA area as "park deficient." A community park may or may not end up in the Town and County site. As a part of the AUAR environmental study the park location and size for this area will be evaluated. Potential school site Staff has discussed with the applicant the possibility of a school site in this area. If the school district, as a part of their study, considers a school in this area it should be considered as a part of the AUAR. Environmental Issues Existing Wetlands There are several existing wetland basins on-site, including both ag/urban wetlands and natural wetlands. All wetlands on-site should be delineated by a qualified wetland delineator, checked by City staff and surveyed by a registered land surveyor prior to the development of more detailed plans for this site. Wetland hnpact Avoidance, Minimization and Replacement Wetland impact avoidance, minimization and replacement must occur in a manner consistent with the Minnesota Wetland Conservation Act (MR 8420). The applicant should submit a wetland alteration permit application. Prior to wetland impacts occurring, the applicant shall obtain City approval of a wetland replacement plan. Bernardi Concept PUD October 15, 2002 Page 7 Bluff Creek Overlay__District The site is partially within the Lowlands Region of the Bluff Creek Overlay District. This region of the overlay district is characterized by significant tracts of forest land, the highest quality wetlands in the Bluff Creek co;widor and diverse wildlife habitat. The goals set forth in the Bluff Creek Watershed Natural Resources Management Plan (BCWNRMP) for the Lowlands Region are to: 1. Preserve and manage the high-quality wetland complexes, riparian areas and oak woodlands to extend the high-quality system of the Gorge Region; 2. Restore impaired ecosystems to their natural condition; and 3. Re-create natural links between major natural features within the Bluff Creek comdor. The applicant should keep these goals in mind as a plan is developed for the site and should work with staff to achieve these goals for this property. The mapped boundaries of the primary and secondary comdors of the Bluff Creek Overlay District vary between those shown in the Plan and those included on City maps. The applicant should arrange for the boundaries to be field-verified by staff prior to the development of a more detailed plan for this site. Storm Water Management, Easements, Bluffs and Erosion Control will all have to be reviewed as a part of the AUAR. Surface Water Management fees will also be required as a part of any development. Other Agencies The applicant shall apply for and obtain pe~Tnits fi'om the appropriate regulatory agencies (e.g., Riley-Pm'gatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District, Minnesota Pollution Control Agency, Army Corps of Engineers) and comply with their conditions of approval. Forest~3~ The proposed natural resources preservation shown in the concept development plan is excellent because it protects all of the environmentally important areas. There are two sites protected within the overlay district, one northern and one southern. The wooded areas in the northern overlay district area are in good to excellent condition. Large, mature oaks, maples, lindens, and hickories fill the overstory of the forest with a healthy mix of species in the understory. There is a small amount of buckthorn in the southeast corner of the district, but it could be easily managed and eradicated. The southern district is a mix of lindens, boxelders, maples, ash and elm also with a variety of species in the understory. This area could be left as is or actively managed to increase the number of long-lived species, such as maples and oaks. Both districts should be permanently protected by conservation easements. The development summary states that there are eight acres within the districts that are developable. These acres should be used as a density transfer. No development is recommended for the northern district. The southern district could support hiking trails or other low impact amenities, especially if it is to be actively managed as a forest in transition. Bernardi Concept PUD October 15, 2002 Page 8 Landscaping for the townhome and condominium area should include native species for overstory and foundation plantings as well as non-native, ornamental selections. Large groupings of materials will help extend the natural areas into the developed sites and create privacy for residents. A strong, boulevard tree planting element would also be an attractive element. Hotlsing A part of the city comprehensive plan deals with housing goals and policies. The city does participate in the Livable Communities Act and has goals for housing diversity and affordability. As a part of this project, staff is anticipating that the developer work towards achieving these housing goals specifically by preparing a housing plan. The city held a Housing Summit in May of this year. The outcome of the Summit was the development of some common themes (see attachment). One common theme was that the community have "lifestyle housing where one could live, work and play." Housing should be provided with the community so that the city can be a place to live work and play. In order to have the commercial development the city also needs to develop a population base. This can be accomplished through housing diversity. Following are the city housing goals' Table 2-3 CITY INDEX BENCHMARK GOAL Affordability Ownership 37% 60-69% 30% Rental 44% 35-37% 35% Life-Cycle Type (non-single 34% family detached) 19% 35-37% 1991 Comp Plan Owner/Renter Mix 85/15% 67-75 / 25-33% 80-90 / 20-10 Density Single Family Detached 1.5/acre 1.8-1.9/acre 1.8 Multi-family 11/acre 10-14/acre 9-10 Overall Average 3.3 Zoning Options One of the major issues for the Planning Commission is the appropriate land use. Attached is the comprehensive plan land use percentages, a land use comparison of other communities and a tax capacity analysis. If this area were to be industrial, the surrounding land use also needs to be considered. A school in conjunction with housing as a possible density transfer ne~ds to be considered in the overall mix. Density cannot be transferred with an industrial land use. Bernardi Concept PUD October 15, 2002 Pag~ 9 The advantage of industrial uses may appear to create more taxes with less service demands. Industrial would reduce the number of children but with the multi-family maximum of 568 units, the project number of school children is 1 t4 (a single family development projection would be 100). The advantage of multi-family is that it creates a market for additional commercial uses and housing for workers. It appears based on current tax policy "2002", multi-family would pay more taxes (see tax comparison and additional new comparisons). RECOMMENDATION Staff recommends that the City Council approve the concept PUD with the following conditions: . The applicant shall contribute to the preparation of an Alternative Urban Area Wide Review (AUAR) in lieu of an EAW for the 2005 MUSA area. The AUAR shall study the following issues: a. Public facilities-school, park, utilities, fire station b. Environmental features-Bluff Creek Overlay District, Wetlands/bluffs, open space and trees. c. Transportation system-traffic/road plan and the ongoing considerations of the existing studies and reports, the design and the construction of Hwy. 3111 and Powers Boulevard. d. Utilities-Sewer, Water, Sto~Tn Sewer e. In addition, the AUAR shall address the following issues: i. Potential school sites, fire station, water tower, and creek crossing. Collector road systems as well as traffic, infrastructure requirements: sewer, water, storm sewer and natural resources including wetlands, trees and slopes. f. Fiscal tax study . A Medium Density PUD shall be created with the following items addressed: landscaping (entrance, streetscape and buffering transitions, uses and density), possible support commercial, neighborhood connections (trials, sidewalks) design standards (materials architectural details and variety) transit (slip off lanes) public access to park areas, preservation of natural features (bluffs, wetland, trees) housing plan (range of product and price). 3. The applicant shall petition the City for city services (sewer, water, etc) 4. The applicant shall develop a housing diversity plan. 5. All wetlands on-site shall be delineated by a qualified wetland delineator, checked by City staff and surveyed by a registered land surveyor prior to the development of more detailed plans for this site. 6. The applicant shall keep the goals for the Lowlands Region of the Bluff Creek Overlay District in mind as a plan is developed for the site and work with staff to achieve these goals for this property. Bernardi Concept PUD October 15, 2002 Page 10 a. Preserve and manage the high-quality wetland complexes, riparian areas and oak woodlands to extend the high-quality system of the Gorge Region; b. Restore impaired ecosystems to their natural condition; and c. Re-create natural links between major natural features within the Bluff Creek corridor. , The applicant shall arrange for the Bluff Creek primary and secondary zone boundaries to be field-verified by staff prior to the development of a more detailed plan for this site. 8. The Building and Fire Marshal comments shall be incorporated into the next level of review. ATTACHMENTS 1. Submittal letter and application. 2. Public hearing notice and property owners list. 3. Summary of Housing Summit. 4. Land use comparisons. 5. Five tax comparisons. 6. Minutes for August 6, 2002 Planning Commission meeting. TOWN Minnesota DMsion HOMES August 30, 2002 Ms. Kate Aanenson 7700 Market Blvd PO Box 147 Chanhassen, MN 55317 Re: Bernardi Property Dear Ms. Aanenson: Thank you for meeting with us to review the Bernardi property issues. This letter represents a'written request to extend the city review period of the Concept Plan to the October 30, 2002. Please contact me at 952-253-0448 if you have any questions. Sincerely, · ,. 2. ,' / ~ (' '- "',, :- :~'-'(~"':-'""-'- (-'"' -i ( r.!~ ,:-,..{.... Krista R. FJemming Project Manager- Land Development 07/02/02 14:16 FAX 612 937 5739 CITY OF CHANHASSEN 002 CITY OF CHANHASSEN 7700 MARKET BOULEVARD CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 (952) 227-1100 DEVELOPMENT REVIEW APPLICATION APPLICAN'r:i~ ',V,,,'"~'~ t~.. ("~-'[,c-V(---t1'-i. ~-'' ' ~.~-~ ADDRESS: TELEPHONE (Day time) C'~'''? '";' : ..... .. '..-~ Comprehensive Plan Amendment Conditional Use Permit Interim Use Permit Non-conforming Use Permit Planned..., Unit De, velop..,rnent*. . (..' ,, "~ . r f'--.--t, i "- ~" ' Rezoning Sign Permits Sign Plan Review Site Plan Review* Subdivision* Temporary Sales Permit Vacation of ROW/Easements Variance Wetland Alteration Permit Zoning Appeal Zoning Ordinance Amendment '",._._~_ Notification Sign X Escrow for Filing Fees/Attorney Cost** ($50 CUPISPRIVACtVARIVVAP/Metes and Bounds, $400 Minor SUB) TOTAL FEE $ ~' t(.,',~ A list of ali property owners within 500 feet of the boundaries of the property must be included with the application. Building material samples must be submitted with site plan reviews. *Twenty-six full size folded copies of the plans must be submitted, including an 8%" X 11" reduced copy of transparency for each plan sheet. ** Escrow will be required for other applications through the development contract NOTE - When multiple applications are processed, the appropriate fee shall be charged for each application. CITY OF CHANHASSEN ~003 07/02/02 14:17 FAX 612 937 5739 LOCATION LEGAL DESCRIPTION TOTAL ACREAGE YES ~ NO WETLANDS PRESENT --------- PRESENT ZONING ~ REQUESTED 'q' ~ ; ZONING~ PRESENT LAND USE DESIGNATION IGNATiON REQUESTED LAND USE DES , REASON FOR THiS REQUEST / This application must be completed in full and be typewritten or clearly printed and must be accompanied by all information and plans required by applicable City Ordinance provisions. Before filing this application, you should confer with the Ptannin! Department to determine the specific ordinance and procedural requirements applicable to your application. A determination of completeness of the application shall be made within ten business days of application submittal. A written notice of application deficiencies Shall be mailed to the applicant within ten business days of application. This is to certify that I am making application for the described action by the City and that I am responsible for complying with all City requirements with regard to this request. This application should be processed in my name and I am the party whom the City should contact regarding any matter pertaining to this apptication. I have attached a copy of proof of ownership (.either copy of Owner's Duplicate Certificate of Title, Abstract of Title or purchase agreement), or I am the authorized person to make this application and the fee owner has also signed this application. I will keep myself informed of the deaalines for submission of material and the progress of this application, t further understand that additional fees may be charged for consulting fees, feasibility studies, etc. with an estimate prior to any authorization to proceed with the study. The documents and information I have submitted are true and correct to the best of my knowledge. The city hereby notifies the applicant that development review cannot be completed within 60 days due to public hearing requirements and agency review. Therefore, the city is notifying the applicant that the city requires an automatic 60 day extension for development review. Development review shall be completed within 120 days unless additional review extensions are approved by the appticant. ..... Date ----- Signature of Fee Owner Fee Paid Receipt No. Application Received on The applicant should contact staff for a copy of the staff report which will be available on Friday prior to the meeting. If not contacted, a copy of the report will be mailed to the applicant's address, NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING TUESDAY, OCTOBER 15, 2002 AT 7:00 P.M. CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBERS 7700 MARKET BLVD. ROPOSAL: Conceptual Planned Unit Development APPLICANT: Town & Country Homes LOCATION- Lyman Boulevard OTICE: You are invited to attend a public hearing about a proposal in your area. The applicant, Town & :ountry Homes, is requesting a conceptual PUD of 88.5 acres of property for 540 residential units on property zoned A2, Agricultural Estate and located on the east side of Audubon Road, south of Lyman oulevard and north of Pioneer Trail. The concept review purpose is to give clear direction for the next vel of review. Happens at the Meeting: The purpose of this public hearing is to inform you about the applicant's ,~quest and to obtain input from the neighborhood about this project. During the meeting, the Chair will lead ~e public hearing through the following steps: Staff will give an overview of the proposed project. The applicant will present plans on the project. Comments are received from the public. Public hearing is closed and the Commission discusses the project. and Comments: If you want to see the plans before the meeting, please stop by City Hall during hours, 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m., Monday through Friday. If you wish to talk to someone about this project, ease contact Kate at 227-1139. If you choose to submit written comments, it is helpful to have one to the department in advance of the meeting. Staff will provide copies to the Commission. otice of this public hearing has been published in the Chanhassen Villager on October 2, 2002. 2005 MUSA Smooth Feed SheetsTM Use template for 5160® Mr. Dean Degler Trustee of Trust 9111 Audubon Road Chanhassen, MN 55317 Mr. Gayle Degler 1630 Lyman Blvd. Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dorsey & Dorsey 1551 Lyman Blvd. Chanhassen, MN 55317 Mr. Jeffrey A. Fox Trustees of Trust Fund 5270 Howards Point Road Excelsior, MN 55331 Mr. George St. Martin 9231 Audubon Road Chanhassen, MN 5531'7 Aurora Investments, LLC 5215 Edina Industrial Blvd., Suite 100 Minneapolis, N,~N 55439 Mr. Sex'erin Peterson 15900 Flying Cloud Drive Eden Prairie, MN 55347 Fox Properties, LP 27990 Smithtown Road Excelsior, ~ 55331 Mr. Bruce Jeufissen 1500 Pioneer Trail Chaska, MN 55318 Mr. Gilbert Laurent Trustees of Trust 24760 Cedar Point Road New Prague, MN 55347 Ms. Char Jeurissen *lark & Jennifer Johnson 9715 Audubon Road Ct~.:Lnhasscn, MN 55317 Ms. Kara Stn~zanti 2901 Forest Ridge Chaska. MN 55318 Mt'. John Klingelhutz c/o Klingelhutz Construction Co. 350 Hwy. 212 E. Chaska, MN 55318 Mr. Tim Keane Lakin, Hoffman, Daly & Lindgren 1500 NW Financial Center 7900 Xerxes Ave. Minneapolis, MN 55431 .",,'Is. Mary Jo Hansen 2890 Forest Ridge Chaska. MN 5531 Mr. Charles \Vagner 94-01 Audubon Road Chanhassen, MN 55317 Mr. Mitch Anderson 1853 Timberview Trail Chaska, MN 55318 Ms. Aline Stcwmt 2848 Timberview Trail Chaska, MN 55318 Ms. Susan Lundgren 2855 Timbervicw Trail Chaska, MN 55318 Mr. Jeff Kerfeld 2702 Shadow Wood Coull Chaska, MN 55318 Town & Country Concept Plan Information requested of Staff by Planning Commission: · Park and recreation input/sidewalks · School district input ° Notification of Chaska residents · Land use designation of Wagner property · Chaska land uses and zoning of nearby parcels · Product types/general layout of streets ° Intensity compared to other developments · Nature of amenities · Tax implications · Delineation of transition areas · ,---Additional-options:for.mixed. residential/industrial · Impact on Degler property ° Reduction in density Affordability of residential units Location of conservation easements .'~ ,:.,..' '> HOUSING SUMMIT CiO' of Cha~.hasse~ May 23, 2002 Common Tl~emes To have life style housing available to live, work and play. What do you want your community to be? If you want/provide housing within the community so it can be a place to live, work and play. viable community where all people are invested. Philosophy on-going and updating. · Definition Education/constant to new people moving in Engaging larger community- faith/business/government/education/in housing planning implementation. Affirmation Policies/zoning new Long-term planning to make the best use of the land Group 1 Re-evaluate the cun'ent land use and zoning. - rezone to medium and high density Review park dedication in cash fees versus land taking - evaluate need in every neighborhood - work with the park commission - meet neighborhood life style needs Property tax - concern with increase for seniors Fewer land use restrictions Engage key local businesses in affordable housing issues Local official housing (champions) and support of government - Work with community leaders and business organizations - Inform and educate Citizens/public of vision Staff Council Group 2 Affi~Tn support - constituent a dialogue - contributions Educate Define life styles affordable Define Chanhassen's needs - who and phce tellers college graduates pastors age groups one size does not fit all Define options / product Means to affordable - recognize that $'s are needed Dollar sources - Faith-community - Government - Private Other - Density/zoning - Fees/but for/zero loss big help to builder Streets - Allow for nmrower Retention - How long to we need it? - Which parts -continue surveying - How do we keep it? Rental/long term assistance For sale/land trust, corporate inc., 2nd mortgage Property tax Group 3 Ensure a range of housing types, ages, price ranges throughout the community - Take the focus off of only new construction as only affordable - Support first time owners in existing/older stock -- Partner to provide classes to build renovation skills - (Hardware stores, Community Ed, etc.) City has an on-going educational process on housing - Community conversations What makes our community whole? Who needs to live here? - List of resources, options for seniors to stay in homes (e.g. reverse mortgage), option for first time buyers - What can community agencies, businesses, individuals contribute? Habitat Banks Christmas in May - Is HRA the vehicle? Shift to active outreach/education City policies, practices, schedules, facilitate, ability of developers to produce affordable housing. Also, think housing in price range to allow lateral move within community (single family- townhome) Explore/identify/implement methods to hold housing stock (by city and business) and keep affordable for the next owner. Promote long-term planning to repurpose buildings no longer needed as schools and businesses. Locate schools in residential areas and build with the flexibility to convert. g:\ptan\ka\housing\goals City of Chanhassen Land Use Amendment Arboretum Village Figure 4 Land Use Commercial Office/Industrial Office Parks & Open Space Public/Semi-Public Residential Large Lot Residential Low Density Residential Medium Density Residential High Density Mixed Use Undevelopable TOTALS 2020 Land Use Plan Existing .Proposed Change 212 212 0 1,291 1,269 -22 117 117 0 1,466 1,466 0 1,242 1,242 0 2,247 2,247 0 5,549 5,473 -76 531 629 98 398 398 0 134 134 0 1,573 1,573 0 14,760 14,760 g:\plan",bg\ land use amendment Arboretum Village.xls City of Chanhassen Land Use Amendment Town Country Home Figure 4 Land Use Commercial Office/I ndustrial Office Parks & Open Space Public/Semi-Public Residential Large Lot Residential Low Density Residential Medium Density Residential High Density Mixed Use Undevelopable TOTALS 2020 Land Use Plan Existing 212 1,269 117 1,466 1,242 2,247 5,473 629 398 134 1,573 Pr__~posed ChanLqe 212 0 1,229 -40 117 0 1,466 0 1,242 0 2,247 0 5,473 0 669 40 398 0 134 0 1,573 0 14,760 14,760 g:\plan\bg\ land use amendment Town Country Home.xls Town and Country Spreadsheet Assumptions: Tax Capacity HOUSING VALUATION Single family detached (low density) Townhomes (medium density) $340,857 $179,550 average valuation June 2002 average valuation 1998 building permits COMMERCIAL/INDUSTRIAL VALUATION Commercial Office Industrial / Warehouse Office $100 per square foot $ 50 per square foot $120 per square foot TAX CAPACITY Ownership Housing C o mmerci al/In du stri al/O ffi ce 1% of first $500,000 - 1.25% of balance 1.5% of first $150,000 - 2% of balance Taxes - Taxes are calculated at 119.761% of tax capacity. City's Share - 19% of taxes Fiscal Disparities - 40% of commercial/industrial/office Students (Estimate based on 2001 District 112 Analysis) Single family detached Townhomes 0.70 students per dwelling unit 0.20 students per dwelling unit Hig n Hill F iiilii 7 BLUEBONNE 8 CHICORY W 9 POPPY DR 10 BLUE SAGE 11 WATERLEAF 12 LADY SLIPP 13 BUTTER CU 14 BLUESAGE 15 WATERLEAF 16 SNAPD arvest W utumn Ri ay :lge Avenue ~Coult~r Blvd mn Ridge Ct mn Ridge Ln mn Ridge Way Harvest W Autumn Ri e Coult~ r BI be Sum: 80029.60 Count: 15 Mean: 5335.31 Maximum: 6805.00 Minimum: 4031.00 Range: 2774.00 Variance: 602913.83 Standard Deviation: 776.48 Sum: 150958.10 Count: 30 Mean: 5031.94 Maximum: 6153.00 Minimum: 3813.00 Range: 2340.00 Variance: 437990.58 Standard Deviation: 661.81 Walnut Grove-- Sum: 227108.47 Count: 149 Mean: 1524.22 Maximum: 2159.00 Minimum: 0.00 Range: 2159.00 Variance: 170266.52 Standard Deviation: 412.63 Autumn Ridge-- Sum: 107194.00 Count: 66 Mean: 1624.15 Maximum: 3157.00 Minimum: 0.00 Range: 3157.00 Variance: 337734.47 Standard Deviation: 581.15 Reference #1 Sum: 561816 sq. ft. Sum: 80029.60 Count: 15 Mean: 5335.31 Maximum: 6805.00 Minimum: 4031.00 Range: 2774.00 Variance: 602913.83 Standard Deviation: 776.48 Reference #2 Sum: 595518 sq. ft. Sum: 150958.10 Count: 30 Mean: 5031.94 Maximum: 6153.00 Minimum: 3813.00 Range: 2340.00 Variance: 437990.58 Standard Deviation: 661.81 Reference #3 Walnut Grove-- Sum: 563455 sq. ft. Sum: 227108.47 Count: 149 Mean: 1524.22 Maximum: 2159.00 Minimum: 0.00 Range: 2159.00 Variance: 170266.52 Standm'd Deviation: 412.63 Reference #4 Autumn Ridge-- Sum: 419137 sq. ft. Sum: 107194.00 Count: 66 Mean: 1624.15 Maximum: 3157.00 Minimum: 0.00 Range: 3157.00 Variance: 337734.47 Standard Deviation: 581.15 Park Coulter · ew Court 1 Es Lak~ October 8, 2002 SQ_FT 103,392.00 116,478.00 121,103.00 78,611.00 67,355.00 TAX_NET. 33,422.00 44,472.00 79,963.30 30,680.00 32,704.61 Administration '-~ j" ': 23/ L-~ Y~.',:: 952.227.1ii0 Building Inspections :: :'-4: 752.227.iiSi :~, ~E2 227.1i~0 Engineering F~, ~52.227.1i70 Finance Park & Recreation ::: :' .-: g52.227.t400 F~.,:' {..~2 227.141:4 Planning & Natural Resources ':z, [.52.227.i110 Public Works F;.,. 952.227.:,3i0 Senior Center ~:;"5 952.227 112.5 ~i,: 952.227/1!0 Web Site MEMORANDUM TO: FROM' DATE' SUBJECT: Todd Gerhardt, City Manager Bruce DeJong, Finance Director/(~/~) September 18, 2002 Cost of Service by Property Type In discussions with you and Kate Aanenson, the subject of tracking expenses by property type has surfaced. Our city accounting system has been designed for purposes of tracking revenue and expenditures by city program. To that end we have a coding system that uses a three digit fund number, a four digit combination department and/or program number, and a four digit revenue and expense number that we use to code expenses. We do not folloxv the State of Minnesota recommended chart of accounts exactly, but come fairly close. This system can easily track revenues against expenditures for a variety of programs. We do not have any method of tracking expenditures by property type. We don't currently have the capability to designate which portion of our services are provided to business versus residential properties. As a Finance Director, I have been exposed to a number of accounting systems and have not seen any other city accounting system designed to track expenses in this manner. I can't foresee how we would do that without making some arbitrary allocation that would be no more or less valid than someone else's estimate. If we were to somehow track this information on a rigorous basis, I believe that it would have an effect that lowers worker productivity in the field and would require additional data entry personnel in the office. Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDER THE REQUEST OF TOWN AND COUNTRY HOMES FOR A CONCEPTUAL PUD OF 88.5 ACRES OF PROPERTY FOR 540 RESIDENTIAL UNITS ON PROPERTY CURRENTLY ZONED A2~ AGRICULTURAL ESTATE AND LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE OF AUDUBON ROAD~ SOUTH OF LYMAN BOULEVARD~ AND NORTH OF PIONEER TRAIL. THE CONCEPT REVIEW PURPOSE IS TO GIVE CLEAR DIRECTION FOR THE NEXT LEVEL OF REVIEW. Public Present: Name Name Connie & George St. Martin Barbara & Richard Palmiter Krista Flemming Mark & Jen Johnson Char Jeurissen Jeffrey Fox Jeff & Susan Lundgren Jill & Mitch Anderson Mark Johnson 9231 Audubon Road 4916 Kingsdale Drive, Bloomington Town & Country Homes 9715 Audubon Road 9715 Audubon Road 5270 Howards Point Road, Excelsior 2855 Timberview Trail, Chaska 2853 Timberview Trail, Chaska 2905 Butternut Drive, Chaska Kate Aanenson presented the staff report on this item. Blackowiak: Any questions of staff? Slagle: I can start. Let's see here. A couple of things Kate. Going back to your comment of the time line. Now the last time we saw this, I'm going to say was in August? Aanenson: August 6th. Slagle: Okay. And at that point there was a tabling. Aanenson: Correct. Slagle: And we then had how many days? Aanenson: They gave us a letter for like an extra 30 days, and they gave us another letter. Slagle: Okay. So we've had a total of 60 of an extension in essence? Aanenson: Con'ect, yes. Slagle: Okay. And the applicant was deemed complete by you, or your Staff on what date? I'm just trying to understand where we are. Aanenson: Well the application date that was signed was July. So the 120 days would have been up closer to that first part, in August. So we're way past that. Again, they need to make some decision. We need to make some decision if we're going to go down that path so. Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 Slagle: Now, just help me out here. The one thing that, in some sense it's almost if we had a work session it's easier to ask these questions but we've done the tour. We've discussed amongst ourselves the just education behind the PUD' s. Now on page 2 we talk about in Section 20-517 in the Code, what needs to be provided in order to approve the conceptual PUD. Am I correct? Aanenson: Yes. Slagle: Okay. And so when I look at A and I go 1 tt'n'ough 6, I sort of have some and I don't have some. Aanenson: That's correct. Slagle: Okay. And all I'm wondering as a commissioner who's really approaching their first one, from your perspective is it okay to in essence approve a conceptual PUD when in essence the things that we state, we don't have all of it? Aanenson: ColTeCt. Now. Slagle: And the answer might be yes, and I'd like to know why. Aanenson: That' s a good question, and part of the, it' s onerous on part of the city's obligation to provide some of the answers to the questions. We need to decide where we want the collector street to go. And when you're looking at that, we need to step back and look at all the properties and say where's the appropriate location to give them direction. Certainly when 2005 becomes available, they'd like to be able to develop. We need to make some decisions to help them. They' ve indicated they would like to be working with us so when 2005 comes and not magically is going to happen at that time. We have to also put some other things in place. Right. So part of it is back to us. What they need to show us is that really do you feel comfortable moving forward with the medium density, and again it is consistent with the comprehensive plan. If you feel strongly about the industrial when it goes to the City Council, and we'd have to put some findings together at the City Council if they also chose to go with the industrial. Slagle: Okay, and let me ask you this. This document that xve have here, and I apologize for not keeping everything I had fi'om the first meeting in August. How much different is this than w'hat W a s. Aanenson: It's the exact same. Slagle: That's what I thought. So what has the applicant done since we last got together? I mean have they brought anything other? Aanenson: No. Slagle: Okay. Aanenson: No. They're waiting for direction from you, and from us and from the staff to tell them, that's what the purpose of this is. As we move through this process, and we tell them, one of the things that we need to brainstorm about, is talked about is you -know respecting the natural features. Some of those transitions. Some of those trails. Again, we put those in the staff report under the PUD. What our expectations were. Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 Slagle: Where I'm coming from on this question is, is on our tour in the Shakopee I believe it was, there was discussion with one of the representatives about, at least I had a discussion just about common areas and my beliefs and what not on that, and I guess I was just thinking that them would be some movement, if you will, towards perhaps, maybe I wasn't clear enough that I didn't think there was enough. Again you know. Aanenson: It's a good question, and I guess what I'm saying is, it's very fluid. They can show you a buffer but until we say definitively this is where, what we're trying to reconcile right now is where this collector road should be. Until we know that, that's kind of the framework issue that they go back and then respond to that design. So we need to give them criteria on what's to come back with their design. If that makes sense. Kind of a chicken and an egg. Slagle: Sure. Aanenson: So, the guiding principle we stated already is that these two are certainly issues that we've already stated that are very significant, and that's the slopes, the trees, the wetlands. We've already said we want to transfer the density. At least that's what the staff's indicated. We want to cluster the density based on using a PUD. That's a given. Some of the other things yet we still have to flush out, is working with the park department. They may not want the regional park here. They may want some access. We've agreed and we've talked about that, that we want access to these features. That there's a community park, maybe it belongs not necessarily on this piece, somewhere else. Maybe it ties into this piece, but there's some other decisions we need to make so we can give them better specific direction. So kind of marching down this path, coming back between the applicant, the bigger picture and working back with you over the next couple years. Slagle: Sure. One last question. There were, there had been some comments, or there was some comments about the style of the product that we viewed. Has that been conveyed to the applicant? Aanenson: Yes. And also the condition was in here that they come back with, develop a specific plan that meets your expectations and I think if you want to add some specific things that you want to look at, that would be appropriate but that's one of the things that they need to come back with. Slagle: Sure. And is your view that the applicant tonight is at least prepared to talk about those concerns? Aanenson: Yes. Slagle: Okay, great. Okay. That's all. Blackowiak: Okay, thanks. Steve, any questions? Of staff. Lillehaug: Sure. What happened to all the conditions from the previous report? Aanenson: Well I think they were way too specific for this level of detail, and I think that confused everybody. Lillehaug: Yep. Can you briefly explain and summarize the comparable text summary that you provided in that? Not in depth. Maybe just the generalization of the outcome. Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 Aanenson: Yeah, and this was done by the City Manager actually, looking at kind of comparing it. If you had approximate acreage size and there's a summary sheet on the last page of that attachment. That looked at approximate acreage. I believe it was 10 acres. If you took 10 acres of multi-family, 10 acres of industrial, 10 acres of single family, what would produce the most tax. And the multi-family came out pretty equal to the industrial. Or slightly ahead. That was the purpose of that, because that came out in the exercise. And the other thing we said we couldn't equate back out was some of the service costs, and we had that discussion too, so. Just to clarify, because you brought up that point Rich. I want to make sure you understand in condition number 2, when we talked about, and this is on page 9. The medium density shall be created with the following items being addressed, and this was kind of some of our brainstorming that we talked about. That they include landscaping entrances, streetscape and buffering. They would look at possible support commercial. These are your things from last time. Including trails and sidewalks. They come up with design standards, specific material, architecture, details and variety. That they include transit through there. Working with Southwest Metro. That they provide public access to the parks, preservation of natural features and a housing plan. Again those were the comrnents that kind of, I think kind of were the salient points that we wanted. Again generic, but to give them some marching orders on what our expectations, what the next level of review. Slagle: And I think, if I may. I think the key is just the understanding of expectations. Aanenson: Absolutely. Slagle: Because we don't want the applicant to go further down the path if our expectations are going to be such that, or your's as staff, that they can't meet it. Aanenson: Can't meet it, agreed. Slagle: Okay. Aanenson: Agreed. And that's the purpose of this concept level, absolutely. Slagle: That's it, Blackoxviak: No other questions? Okay. LuAnn? Sidney: I guess question about rezoning to start. I guess on the staff report you discuss that in the comprehensive plan this property was given two land use alternatives. Residential or industrial. Now we're going to be losing a certain amount of industrial and I'm wondering how that may or may not impact the city in the future in other parcels. Aanenson: Right. Well that was the purpose of putting in that, the one we just talked about. That exercise has come up, kind of give a tax comparison based on ~nd of equal acreage, so. Whether multi-family would be producing the same amount of industrial. Tax base of say industrial. And again that's based on today's dollars, today's tax rates. Sidney: Okay. And let's see. I guess I'll wait with my other comments. Blackowiak: Okay. Uli, any questions? Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 Sacchet: Yeah, I have a bunch of questions. Rich, you had a good question about this list of what is the 6 elements on the bottom of page 2. I actually was under the impression that those 6 things would be things that still would be worked on. But the way it reads indeed it seems like it says these are the things that should be in place to give a general concept plan. So we have little bit of a disconnect here, because we have a list of things that should be in place for the general concept plan, but it would appear that a fair amount of these things can't really be put in place til the AUAR is done. Aanenson: That's correct. Sacchet: So but for the AUAR, say that real fast 5 times. For that to be done we need to give the concept plan, yes or no? Aanenson: I guess I would compare it somewhat like we did with Lake Susan. Again, we had someone that came forward that wants to do development, because if no one's going to do any development, the city is going to. Slagle: What's the cost of one of those? Aanenson: There's a traffic component, sewer and water. Slagle: I mean total. Ballpark. Sacchet: How many hundred? Aanenson: 250, half a million, depending on the amount of acres. Slagle: Okay. Aanenson: But this is similar to what we did with Lake Susan. Again, because of the scale of this, and they're not going to lock into the design, we said we want to see something different. I think we've all agreed, and we've conununicated that. That our expectation is something a little bit different than what's shown on there. As we move to defining those framework issues, we're going to come back and articulate more about the design, and that's one of the conditions. And I think that goes back to Rich's point. That they understand what, that we've got higher expectations, and that they understand or are willing to go down that path. Sacchet: Thank you Kate. Then to follow-up on LuAnn's comment about the industrial versus the medium density. It says or. So either or is fine as far as that's concerned. However, in the city plan we had it 50/50. So if we made this all residential, do we basically have that much less industrial? I believe that's actually in the land use amendment as attached. Aanenson: No. Let me just clarify that. Sacchet: Please. Aanenson: The 50/50 was just for calculating certain expectations for housing. So when we did a population projection we made a certain assumption. It doesn't say anything to do with the... We had to make certain assumptions to put together a capital improvement plan, which is part of the comprehensive plan. So certain assumptions were made. So it could go either way, so we took a 50/50 on all of them, and it kind of all came out in the wash. Planning Commission Meeting- October 15, 2002 Sacchet: Just hypothetical... Aanenson: Correct. Sacchet: So we're not really losing in terms of our goal for the city? It doesn't really impact that because that was a general estimate and if it tilts a little bit here, it tilts the other way and then other place, and in the end it comes out, it's a wash. Is that what you're saying? Aanenson: It could be, sure. Sacchet: Ideally. Aanenson: Right. Sacchet: Ideally. But now, the land use amendment is not related to that you just said. Aanenson: Well again you had to make, we had to make certain assumptions on the land use recommendations in order to accomplish the comprehensive plan. For example the, like I explained before, up on 5 and 41, it was guided low industrial. Westwood Church took all 60 acres out and made it institutional. A school could go in here. A community park, so while we make certain expectations, all kinds of things that could affect the density but we have to make certain assumptions and we will, even with the area wide, you always want to shoot for the outside, worst case scenario in looking at population numbers and densities so you can manage your traffic and that sort of thing. Sacchet: Okay, thank you Kate. Then there is the aspect, the possibility of a school site, that we're kind of referring to the school board. How do they get tied into this? I mean how do they know about it? Is there somebody who actually. Aanenson: Yes, there's a dialogue. Sacchet: ...there's a liaison? Aanenson: Yes. There's developers willing to work with that, and there's a couple of different approaches. In the comprehensive plan that was done in 1991, a site was identified as a potential school site and that was the Bluff Creek Elementary site. As it turned out, the city bought that through their TIF district. Now, other examples of worMng together is you could do density transfer, other acquisitions. There's other things that are out there trying to land on some of this property so, whether it's on this particular site that's coming in now, or we look at the whole 100 acres. That's again the reason why we want to look at the area wide. Where's the collector streets? Where's the appropriate place to land it based on transportation. Based on the creek. Some of the outdoor needs that the school would require, so another reason to look at that in a holistic sort of thing, so I think this applicant or any other site, we have to kind of work as a team to make that happen. And the school's aware of that. Sacchet: They are aware of it? Okay. That answers the question. In terms of the density transfer. One of the driving forces behind this PUD idea is that it allows us to have the density transfer and therefore preserve the sensitive natural areas. Now according to the staff report there are 64 units or 8.8 acres that could be developable in the area that is considered Bluff Creek, primary or secondary. Now, do we have any idea at this point where that density will be Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 transferred to or be shifting? If we make the whole thing medium density, effectively it would make certain parts of it possibly high density. Aanenson: Correct, and that's the same situation... Sacchet: Do we know anything yet more that would be done or is that premature? Aanenson: Yeah, and that comes back to when they put together that specific plan. You know where do you want to see those transitions? Do you want more density close to a collector road? Further from a collector road? Adjacent to transit. How do you want to make those transitions and that was some of the discussion that you all voiced before, and I think that's something that we need to communicate. Where's the appropriate place to land those back on the site? And that's a discussion we need to direct. First of all it all needs to be delineated. They haven't done that yet, so we get a better idea where those features are. Is this an opportunity to, where we'll put low density and maximize that or is it something that will give more people an opportunity to put higher density? That's an exercise we're going to work on with the applicant, giving them direction. Sacchet: So basically that's not really a discussion point at this stage quite yet. Aanenson: Right. And that's why I'm saying if you tell them this is exactly where it's going to be, they haven't delineated the wetlands. We haven't decided where all that's going to land. Sacchet: So that's something we'll address later when we have more information? Aanenson: Right. We need to know exactly where the wetlands are and the steep slopes and how they're going to accomplish that, correct. Sacchet: Alright. Two more real quick questions. On page 8 of the staff report, you have that table and I tried to get an answer to that last time, and I realized that afterwards that I really didn't get the answer I wanted. You have two columns. One is city index. Actually three columns. One is city index, one is benchmark and one is goal. I understand what the goal is, but I'm a little unsure what index and benchmark stands for. Could you just clarify for me what are we saying in the city index and what we're saying with benchmark. Not the numbers, what the term means. Slagle: Everybody understand that? Aanenson: We're talking about these three definitions. The benchmark is the goal that the Met Council wanted us to achieve. The city index is where we were to date when they inventoried this data. Sacchet: So benchmark is where we are? Aanenson: Benchmark is where they want to see us, somewhere in that. And the index is where we are to date. . Sacchet: The index is where we are, and Met Council goals is benchmark. Alright. Thank you. Now I got it. And finally real quick question. This is going onto City Council? Aanenson: Correct. Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 Sacchet: Okay, that's my questions. Thank you. Blackowiak: Thank you. LuAnn, question? Sidney: Well, I'm wondering. Kate, once we get over the hurdle of saying okay we agree with rezoning, and then we are looking at the concept plan. We're still really 2 years out or more. Aanenson: Absolutely, yeah. The next step that we'll take as a staff, we'll meet with all the property owners to talk about the area wide assessment. Then we'll come back and show you the scoping document and see if you want to add anything else or less. We'll come back specifically what we intend to inventory,. We've kind of laid some of that out to give us a little bit more time to look at that. Sidney: What mechanism would that be, a work session? Aanenson: Probably. Sidney: Okay, so when would the next check point be in terms of actually coming back to Planning Commission? Would that be the. Aanenson: Well you're going to have to approve the area wide review, but we're going to give it to you in bite size pieces. So you can look at the wetlands. You can look at the transportation system. You're going to look at that in chunks. Kind of the environmental features. You'll look at that in pieces so, and then ultimately you will make a recommendation and then it goes onto to City Council, the area wide. Sidney: So you're saying a lot of ineetings? Aanenson: Yes. Sidney: Okay. Aanenson: You'll 'know this project very well. All these people. Sidney: This will all be noticed? Aanenson: Yes. Yes, and this item was re-noticed again too for some of the Chaska folks and all the property owners and I know some had a conflict tonight to get here. Sidney: Did you get any written comments? Aanenson: I just spoke to the Degler's, and I left a message with Mr. Degler. Sidney: Okay. Blackowiak: Rich. Slagle: I just have two quick questions. Kate, I want to understand exactly what you said earlier. That with this PUD, again conceptual at this point, that there is either the possibility or the likelihood that there could be high density within this development. Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 Aanenson: Well not really. If you only talk, there could be. It could go over the 8 units an acre but the thing. Slagle: I mean I'm with you. What I guess I'm sort of thinking though is, if you have an applicant who is okaying a PUD, and we're approving a medium density PUD within a medium density area, changing to a medium density area, that there could be the potential for high density because they could say well you're asking us to really make this area low density, and where are we going to transfer? Well maybe the answer is you don't have that many units. Aanenson: Right, right. Well, that's a good question, and again this is the project area. The approximate 80 acres. Slagle: Okay. Aanenson: So what you take out of that, how we figure out density. There's gross and there's net. You don't count your roads or your wetlands towards your 8, towards your net. So those are taken out. So whatever's left, so while the density is compressed, you still get to count what's upland towards that density. So it's compressed, so there will be areas that exceed that but the PUD allows you to average it. Slagle: I'm with you. I'm just trying to say that as we tour and visit some sites, you know in my mind I'm thinking with the PUD that we're not going to see apartment buildings perhaps. Okay? At least in my mind. Now I could be, you know I was going down a different path which sometimes I' ve been known to do. Aanenson: Well the ordinance, what the ordinance says is you get this many units an acre. How it gets placed oil there is between you and the developer how it gets placed on there. They've shown you some ideas that they have, based on some current products that they have, that we've talked to them about. What are our expectations and they've agreed that their product may be changing over the next couple years and they are changing today, and that's why I think we're saying that we want to put our expectations for our community and what we see our needs, our housing plan, some of the products that we don't have in this community, that we want to communicate to them. But as a general rule, whatever those units are is what they get. Our goal is to try and get a product that meets our needs. Slagle: I guess I'm just trying to say at the onset, in the beginning stages of this, that I am hoping that we are not seeing high density, even if we are asking the applicant for some real unique and creative ways to address certain environmental areas and what not. I'm just throwing that out. And then the last question I have, and then I'll be quiet for a while is, on this AUAR, can I ask what is the anticipated contribution from this applicant to that? Aanenson: That's a very good question. That's something that we're working out with the attorney's office. They've obligated to give us an environmental assessment document, so at a minimum they have to pay for that cost. Slagle: Can I ask ballpark? Aanenson: We don't have that estimate yet. They'll have to give us that. And then whatever that is attributed to, will pay for this. And we're working with the rest of the property owners to Planning Commission Meeting- October 15, 2002 do that. There's a couple different ways to accomplish that. And then we'll be having that meeting with the property owners. Slagle: I would be interested, just as an individual, I don't know about the rest of the commission, understanding more about those assessments. Aanenson: When we get that estimate we'll be coming back to you with that. Blackowiak: Alright, thank you. Would the applicant or their designee like to make a presentation? If so, please come to the microphone and state your name and address for the record. Krista Ftemming: Good evening. I'm back tonight. My name is Krista Flenm-fing. I'm with Town and Country Homes. Tonight also with me is Richard Palmiter, Vice President of our Land Development, and I guess in the last, since August, we' ve had the opportunity to work with staff and I know that you' ve had the opportunity to have more discussions with staff on this entire area. And we greatly appreciated that opportunity and all the efforts that have been put forth to come out to some of our communities and meet with us and take a look at other areas that might interest you and might influence you for this, for direction to this development in the future. I guess what it comes down to is 6 months ago we began gathering all our resources for a great voyage if you will. And that started out with an idea that had an ultimate destination. In other words, we had a piece of land on a map that ultimately is going to become a part of your overall community. And with all great voyages, there are many n~lestones that you have to work towards, and some of these lead to some great advances. Some are checkdng points, and sometimes they're setbacks. And tonight I feel that we're at a point where we've reached the first milestone. We've got a lot of input from the staff, from your land use plan, from some of the site itself, and we're at a point where we need to get some more direction to see if we're, if we can con2nit to going fo~'ward and investing a lot of time and commitment into this project overall, and to fids entire area. And' we feel that your guidance will advance us in that direction. And as we advance on the ideas for this area, you're going to see us a lot. We're going to be here many times with many different pieces of the puzzle looking at all the details that you see in the staff report right now. At this point it's very broad. As we keep working with your guidance we'll come back with more details and more details and get your opinions and your advice on what you'd like to see or what you wouldn't like to see. And that's going to happen in the next 3 to 4 years. So I guess the bottom line is that we believe in the guidance that your staff has given us, and your land use plan, and community and the guidance that you're going to provide us tonight and along the way is going to help us be confident in committing our time and resources to this co~rn*nunity and ma~ng the best neighborhood in this area that we can. So I guess therefore tonight we concur with the staff report and the staff conditions and we'd like to get your approval to continue working on this property for an overall medium density development. And if there's any other questions I'd be happy to answer them. Blackowiak: Okay commissioners, any questions of the applicant? Lillehaug: I have one quick one. What is Town and Country's attitude and willingness to work with staff, to work with the Planning Commission and loo~ng at all the hopefully mostly gains with small concessions with all the conditions that we have, that staff has set forth in the recolnmendation tonight. Krista Flemming: Well hopefully you can see that we' ve already kind of taken some of those steps in working with the meetings that we've had with the staff, and with yourself in meeting 10 Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 you on the sites and doing some things that we don't typically do with every development. This development is more complicated than some that we have been involved with, and it takes a lot of finessing to get an ultimate goal that you're satisfied with and that we can invest in and market and have people want to live in. So we're very committed to doing that and this is the very first step of that is coming forward with a concept plan and working with it both ways. We want to be committed to you, but we also need to know if you're committed to where we need to head, and if you are, then we have the same goal in mind. If not, then we have to make a decision as to if we need to keep pursuing this or not. Lillehaug: Okay. And one other one. It is in your mind and plan that you will absolutely not include any industrial, or any industrial or commercial or office in this development? Krista Flemming: That is our intention. As you can see with our concept plan, we want to provide owner occupied housing for this entire area and that's what we plan to go forward with. As Ms. Aanenson has stated with the AUAR, the overall area and our piece of the puzzle being the initial portion, for this area we can take a look at the other parts to he 2005 MUSA expansion area that might have, be more conducive to industrial and commercial uses to compliment the residential area. Lillehaug: Thank you. Blackowiak: Okay. LuAnn, go ahead. Sidney: I guess I can kind of see where some of the issues might lie. And I'm thinking density is going to be an issue down the line. Is Town and Country willing to reduce the density? Because right now we're, what I would consider it the maybe upper reaches of where we may even consider wanting to be. Would you remove units and reduce the density if we feel that it might be necessary? Krista Flemming: At this point, the way our concept plan is shown, it is based on what's guided out there and it does present a more of a maximum within the zoning district. And as you can see, we don't have all the details that go into the, that come from the zoning ordinance and issues with wetlands and setbacks and lot sizes and different aspects that the park may want and those types of things, and so we anticipate that this number, it's very possible that this density will reduce based on putting those specifics into the plan. And we are committed to working with... If we were to just take a look at what your general guide plan says, this is what it would allow. That doesn't take into consideration all the details. That's what we'll come back with and get more of a definite answer on, as far as densities are concerned. Sidney: And I think that will be our major discussion down the line many, many times and then also the type of products, aesthetics and I can think of a whole bunch of things. Alignment of the buildings. Maybe as a heads-up, I think that's going to be another point of discussion. Krista Flemming: That's exactly what we feel also, and that's why we want to get started earlier than later so that we have this time to work towards that goal. Sidney: How often do you anticipate meeting with the neighbors? Krista Flemming: I guess at this point we need to continue to work with staff to get the direction and they' re the liaison between yourselves and us as far as giving us the guidance on what issues come up and how often we need to discuss that with the neighborhood or if they need to have 11 Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 separate meetings. You know what the situation may be, but we'll continue to work with staff on that. Sidney: Okay. Blackowiak: Thanks. Uli, any questions of the applicant? Sacchet: ... Blackowiak: Okay, thank you. This item is open for a public hearing. So anyone wishing to speak on this issue, please come to the microphone and state your name and address for the record. Mark Johnson: I generally don't try to speak at these kinds of meetings but I'm going to try today so bear with me. I live right across the street in the development in Chaska. Realize that I' m not a Chanhassen resident but I want to put input in because I'm one of the guys that's going to be looking across the street at what's put in there. Blackowiak: Excuse me, could I just, could we get your name and address. Mark Johnson: 2905 Butternut Drive, which is the first entrance. Blackowiak: Okay, and your name, just for the record. Mark Johnson: Mark Johnson. Blackowiak: Thank you. Mark Johnson: I have concern with density. You know I don't know what medium density is, but it seems like 7.6 net seems like a lot of stuff on a fairly small area. And I've got to look at it so I guess it's kind of personal fi'om that point of view. I have concerns about traffic. I have to exit probably the same place where the residents in that section will exit. And I guess one of the things that I was at the August 6th meeting, one of the things that came up there was that there was going to be discussion between Chaska and Chanhassen because it's really a bordering area, and I know there might have been some phone calls. I was curious on you know what the discussions were. And also there's a whole sub-section that's just north of where I am that I'm sure that Chaska has plans for that area as well, so I'm curious on how all that is going. And quite frankly I guess I don't get all the details but it seems like there's not much different today in the discussion than there was on August 6th and maybe I'm missing something because I don't get the details but it just seems tike we haven't moved anywhere and a lot of the questions haven't been answered so. Thanks. Blackowiak: Kate, can you update us on any discussions that you've had with Chaska or anything at alt. Aanenson: Sure. You asked what was guided. We provided to you what was guided in the Chaska area. Commercial, excuse me, industrial on the most northerly portion. This is guided industrial. Where this gentleman just spoke, low density residential. To the north of that is also low density residential. I'm running out of room on the map. There is some multi-family, and then it goes into the industrial. There's a little bit of park and open space. The city's guided this medium density or industrial. Those are the two zoning options. 12 Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 Blackowiak: You mean Chanhassen. Aanenson: Excuse me, Chanhassen. Those are the two zoning options that we're here to talk about tonight. It does allow up to 8 units an acre. What we're trying to decide here tonight is how we make that work and with the transitions and the buffering and that' s part of the conditions that we had talked about, and while there hasn't been a lot of changing tonight, the Planning Commission has spent probably 4 to 6 hours in work sessions kind of going back over the comprehensive plan and how do you work through the complexities of doing a large scale project. And just again tie into what Ms. Flemming was talking about. This project is different than the ones that we toured. If you look at the one that we visited in Chaska Heights, the framework was put in place. The City of Chaska worked through a lot of that. The project that Town and Country was doing there. The larger framework issues were put in place. Also Shakopee had guided that piece so they came in with the zoning in place and just worked through the site plan, which is typically what you've seen. For a lot of you this is the first time you've seen this scale project where you're actually designing the framework. I think that's where your apprehension is, and that's where the staffs saying we've done this several times. Lake Susan, when we started back in the 80's, we just did the last apartments. We're saying we can do this. It' s an interesting challenge but we can work together and give them the direction of working with the neighbors. Town and Country's been great. We had, Steve was at that meeting, the 2005 kick-off meeting where we had the neighbors there. The property owners are, they're involved in the 2005. We kept that communication going with them and we continue to play on doing that, and whether it's a meeting just between staff or the applicant or the Planning Commission, we'll decide as a group who needs to be at those meetings. We certainly want to keep informed, and we did notify over here of the process. Blackowiak: Right, and have you checked with the City of Chaska at all about what their feelings are or thoughts or do we just not. Aanenson: They commented on our comprehensive plan so. Blackowiak: Okay, but not this project in particular. Aanenson: No, because it's already guided. Right. When the site plan comes in, if they have specific comments but. Blackowiak: Okay, thank you. Mitch Anderson: Good evening. My name is Mitch Anderson, 2853 Timberview Trail. I spoke at the last meeting. I'd just like to reiterate some of the same concerns that I spoke about the last time. One, starting to sound pretty similar. The concerns about the density. I'm afraid that as we start taking into account the density transfer, common areas, bike trails, that kind of things, we're going to end up with something very, very close to maybe having high density. It will be right up against 8 units per acre, and I've had plenty, that just feels high. When you take into account the other neighbors surrounding that, which are mostly single family homes. Our's as well as the... farm acre which is guided single family for Chaska Farms so that's I guess our primary concern. Second thing is keep on including the neighbors in this process. I hope we can find a way to include the Chaska neighbors as well as the Chanhassen neighbors. That's a bit maybe beyond the scope of what you can do, but I hope the developer can continue to include us in the neighborhood in terms of meetings... Thank you. Blackowiak: Okay, thank you. 13 Planning Comn-fission Meeting - October 15, 2002 Mark Johnson: Hello, I'm Mark Johnson. I live at 9715 Audubon Road. I guess the scenery isn't as much of an issue to me. I worked on a townhome complex a couple years ago and I think they can make them look pretty beautiful, but one of my main concerns is Audubon can be atrocious at times. I mean you can sit and, well I can sit and try to get out of my driveway for half hour sometimes you know. Cars packed in front of there, and I'm wondering if it's going to come in conjunction with the Highway 312 thing where they could kind of vent it off that way or. Aanenson: That's part of what the area wide assessment's going to look at. Area wide review's going to look at the traffic. And not just this parcel, but while we can look at the bigger parcel. Where those traffic control needs to be placed. Where's the best place for the collector street to go out again looking at how's Audubon going to function. That's all part of the thing. That's why it's going to take a 2 year process to get a lot of those questions, so it's an important issue, absolutely. Mark Johnson: Thank you. Blackowiak: Thank you. Come on up Debbie. Debbie Lloyd: Hello. Debbie Lloyd, 7302 Laredo Drive. Kate, do we have a copy of the land use plan? Aanenson: This one that's on the. Debbie Lloyd: Well that one's already ~nd of... Still kind of disjointed tonight. I've got a lot of little things I wanted to point out, but. Aanenson: You're upside down. Debbie Lloyd: You've probably all looked at the comp plan, the land use plan. This upper part here, this whole piece is designated office industrial. And there's a nice chunk here that was designated parkland, and the rest is designated either, I'm sorry, medium density or office industrial. I just wanted to point that out because I'm going to bring up a couple others here. h~ the comp plan we' ye, it says that 9 percent of our land should be used for office and industrial, and 4 percent for medium density housing. Also in the comp plan it reads, the city will ultimately have 1,291 acres or 9 percent of it's 2020 land use industrial office guided property. The proposed area for office industrial expansion includes the areas south of Lyman Boulevard, adjacent to the city of Chaska, and north of 169/212 in the southern portion of the city. Anyway it identifies that specific piece of land. In the staff report, on page 4, under background it clearly identifies 40 acres of this land after calculating, how they came up with the numbers for the 2020 land use. Anyway we're transferring 40 acres out of the industrial. However, that number in the back under, well it's this chart. Figure 4. It's-showing a net change of 22 acres rather than the 40 acres. And I just think that should be rectified. I'm bringing this up because of the tax element of changing zoning. I guess I'm a proponent of industrial developments in that area. Although the staff report does talk about the tax benefits of the two different types of development, it doesn't address the cost and I think that perhaps we need to do a fiscal impact analysis of the difference between the tax income and the cost of a high density, which I'm afraid it will become a rather high density development. I like the concept, PUD concept in preserving that area, but again I see that as a highly sensitive area was designated as par'kland. Thank you. Blackowiak: Thank you. Anyone else like to address this issue? Okay, seeing no one I will close the public hearing. Con-nnissioners, we need our comnnents. 14 Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 Slagle: I have a couple more questions if it's okay with you Madam Chair, for staff. Blackowiak: Sure. Slagle: Is that alright Kate? The, simply put. If we did not do a PUD on this, and I'm not switching gears but I just, hypothetical. I'm not doing that. Could they build, in your opinion, those units in this land with it's contours and unique features? Aanenson: Are you talking about the kind of the property to the north and to the south? Slagle: Let's just call it the development. The parcel we're looking at. Everything. Could they put in, and I'm not sure if it's 545 units or 568. Aanenson: It depends on what we calculate as the net so, and that's depending on assuming that we've taken out the roads and the wetlands and unbuildable slopes. Could there be some upland? Yes. Okay. The other thing you have to remember with the PUD, it allows you to put together the specific design standards. S lagle: I'm with you, and I'm a proponent of the PUD. What I'm afraid of though is that the PUD, while we're going to gain the green space and what not, and have some hopefully constructive partnering leverage, I'm afraid that what we' re going to see is high density. Aanenson: It's guided medium density, 8 units an acre. That's what they have a right to. As Mrs. Flemming stated, they have to come in and show us that they can meet all that. They have to meet all the impervious surface requirements. They have to meet parking standards, so all those things come into play, and the design that's driving it is going to tell you how many units they can get depending on the type of product. But they're allowed up to 8 units an acre, pending they can meet all those other requirements. I think again, not just the transfer the density with the PUD but the ability to put together specific uses on design features is also another advantage of the PUD whereas if they come in with a straight subdivision. If they came in and did under the, an R-8 zoning, we would lose that ability to kind of call out some specific and unique architectural orientation or different colors and things that we've done on some of the other projects. Slagle: And then one more question, if I may Madam Chair. Is I noticed in here some wording that density transfer was not allowed within an industrial area. Aanenson: It' s just more difficult to do. Because if you transfer density, sometimes you can go vertical. Sometimes you can compress it. But an industrial building it tends to be more horizontal, it's harder to compress the density. Slagle: And I guess my reason for stating that and asking the question is that one of the reasons that industrial is not a component of this applicant's proposal? Aanenson: They're housing builders. That's why they came forward. That's their nitch. They don't do industrial. But let me just say something else about the industrial. In some circumstances similar to what we did with the industrial park where the National Weather Service is. That's a PUD for the entire industrial park. What it allows is where the Weather Service sits it actually has a greater green space area that they need for their operations. It allows greater impervious surface on some of the other ones, which means they can have more parking and less 15 Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 green space because we average it over the entire industrial park. Having said that, what you can again compress that, you'd have maybe if this one came in and it was 2 or 3 large office warehouse types, then maybe the green space that they would need the impervious surface would actually be those areas, so it could happen. It just gets a little bit more complex. Slagle: Okay. Lillehaug: Can I add onto Rich's question? Blackowiak: Sure. Lillehaug: in your opinion, I just, I'm trying to get my head straight here too. With density transfers, if you're driving by this development, will it have the flavor, although it's guided as medium density, will it have the flavor of a high density development2 Aanenson: I can't speak for what your idea of high density is. I mean that's going to be, that's you know. Slagle: Well let me ask this if I can. You go further north on Audubon, just before Maximum Graphic. You see those multi-family. Do you know what that is? Is that medium density? Aanenson: Yes. Yes. Slagle: I would think so. Aanenson: Yes, in Chaska, correct. Slagle: Okay. So that would be the, that would be, well actually we don't know. Is that 8? Aanenson: I guess, the staff's goal is to get at high quality produce that meets the community's desires. That's our goal. Slagle: And I don't think any conm-fissioner here would doubt that. Our concern, I'll speak for myself. Our concern is, is that you've, we vote on this, send it to the council. 'The applicant does their thing by finalizing the acquisition of the land or whatever. I don't M~ow if you've done that yet or not. but you probably will. And it just starts the process where. Aanenson: We have to have faith in each other. I think you' ve heard from them they're willing to work. They've heard our comments. When we went out and looked at some of their products, I think they' ve said a willingness. I think we've communicated the expectations. They've looked at our other products in town. We've given them some other products to look at that we're interested in. And from what I heard from them is they're willing to introduce some other products and look at some of the things that we're interested in, and they can CO~TeCt me if I'm wrong. But that's my understanding and that we want to get to that point. And we're going to develop the PUD to get what we believe is our needs. Blackowiak: Do you have any questions? Any more questions? Sacchet: Yes. Blackowiak: Well hang on. Let's just finish up on this side. Wait your turn. 16 Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 Lillehaug: I'm done. Blackowiak: Rich, you're? Slagle: All done. Blackowiak: Okay. Uli, go ahead then. Sacchet: Yeah, I'd just like to briefly. Blackowiak: Oh I'm sorry, you're right. We're at comments. Sacchet: No, I'm still questions. Blackowiak: Oh you still have a question? Okay. Sacchet: And my question is the comment of Debbie Lloyd. About these percentages. If I remember correctly she said that industrial, we're targeted something like 8 percent medium density, 4 percent or something, or even 9. Slagle: 9. Sacchet: The park designation on the south versus the north, which is actually in the Bluff Creek district as office industrial, could you just briefly put some context around those comments from Debbie Lloyd please. Aanenson: The 22 doesn't reflect the 40 acres. Page 4 is correct. If we change this, based on the assumption we use the half 40 acres of the 80, it'd be less than a .03 percent reduction in the industrial. There is a piece right adjacent to this that's also guided industrial which we need to give some thought to. Sacchet: So we are potentially reducing it by .3 percent industrial, which could be made up in another place. Do we have other places that are guided or, we put something or industrial? Aanenson: Correct. The comprehensive plan does show green space through that. In order to get that green space we either have to buy it or acquire it through the density transfer, and that was our goal and that's the other tools through the Bluff Creek. The other goal that we're trying to achieve through this is to preserve this feature right here. All this open space right through here. That's the objective. Sacchet: And really the part that is not...according to Debbie Lloyd that is industrial is in the Bluff Creek area, isn't it? Aanenson: Part of this does show up as green, but we'd have to acquire it. Either pay for it or give a density transfer so we can acquire it through some compensation. We can't just take it. So that's the tool that we, remember we talked about this last on the tour that we have is to do the density transfer to acquire, or we could take park and trail fees or pay for it and let them not do the density transfer. That's another option. Blackowiak: Okay so Kate then, I guess the question is what is the actual zoning of that portion? 17 Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 Aanenson: It's guided. Blackowiak: Okay it's guided. What is the actual, what is it guided? I mean is it? Aanenson: The piece that we're talking about tonight, Town and Country's piece? Blackowiak: Yes. Aanenson: Industrial or medium density. Blackowiak: So that entire piece has both those designations? .A_anei1son: Correct. Blackowiak: There's no delineation between. Aanenson: It shows some green, if you took on the map that's fight behind Uli, it shows some green but this underlying underneath it, either one of those districts. We can't use, unless we own it. That's representing what we want to preserve, correct. Sacchet: ...and then the finger reaching up here into the industrial, that's the Bluff Creek piece. That's pretty much it right? Aanenson: Correct. Sacchet: Ah'ight so. Aanenson: But we don't own that yet. We have to compensate in order to get it. Sacchet: Okay, thank you. Blackowiak: So I guess we're still on with questions, LuAnn do you have questions at all, or would you like to start comments or should I start elsewhere? Sidney: I guess maybe I'll pass right now oil, and no questions so let's hear some cormnents. Blackowiak: Okay. Steve, why don't you start. Lillehaug: I strongly support a PUD for this area. I'm comfortable moving forward in support of the concept PUD as medium density. With the understanding that an AUAR has to be done. We will need a traffic study. We need to analyze the utilities for that area, and I'm sure you guys are certainly aware of that. This area, it does fall with the present guided land use so it's hard for us to say no to go ahead with the concept PUD. I think a PUD is one of the best tools for this area, to preserve the existing wetlands, the wooded areas, and I think it will opportune the city to get a high degree of a good development in that area. And I guess I would also like to extend, when we go to moving a motion forward here, I would like to make it clear that part of that AUAR that we have to ensure that we're taking into account any design or concept changes with 312 or 212 and tile design of that. To end my conmaents, I look forward to working with the applicant to get the best development possible for the city, as well as for Town and Country. Thank you. 18 Planning Commission Meeting- October 15, 2002 Blackowiak: Okay, thank you. Rich, are you ready to make comments? Slagle: I am, sure. I'm not going to add a lot new other than to reiterate that I do think that the conceptual PUD is the way to go, so I'm okay with that. I think it's been clear by my comments that we have to really be on the same page because as the representative of the applicant stated, that there are milestone. There are points in the road that move forward, stay the same, move back. I hope we don't run into the ones that move back. But that is there as a safeguard for the city at those points. I've seen some of the development by the applicant, and I appreciate you guys taking the time to let us see those. We've also just for the benefit of the audience, we have also forwarded to staff things that we have seen in the area that we believe to be attractive and so forth, so that is in their hands if you haven't seen it in the report. I guess in the end, I'm willing to approve this, but I guess I just wanted this to be on the record that in case we 2 years from now come back and go, you know what were they thinking, which I don't think is going to be the case. If we can see that they were thinking so. Blackowiak: Okay, thank you. Uli. Sacchet: Yeah, I have a couple of comments. First of all, this is the first project this size that I'm dealing with on the Planning Commission side so I have some, what do you call it, trepidation based on the fact that we have this list of 6 items. We're asking that the following should be in place. Overall gross and net density. I think that's somewhat in place. The identification of each lot size is not really there, or lot width. Location of major streets and pedestrian ways. There's only very high level concept in place. Location and extent of public and common open spaces. That's even more high level. Location and type of land use and intensity of development is totally open still at this point. Staging time and schedule. Well, we know it's going to be in 2 to 3 years. Having those lined up here and they're not really all that much in place, I feel some trepidation but I hear you say Kate that we have to base this on trust and I think you from having experience with these larger projects than some of us here of sitting, a couple I think have been here long enough to have dealt with some of those. I'm willing to go the trust route, and I don't have any reason to distrust. On the other hand in terms of the commitment level, there is also a statement in here in the report that says approval of the concept statement will not obligate the city to really go that route. I mean it's a trust both ways. I mean it's based on trust. We're not really making any firm commitments. We're expressing intent. We're expressing direction. We're expressing the willingness and the commitment to want to work together, but that's basically where it's at. We're not committing to do anything specific at this point. I think it's important to be very clear about this. And through the process that's going to happen over the next year or two, the details will start being worked out. That's my understanding. Now having said that, I very strongly feel that this needs to be a PUD for the reason that we can preserve the natural features. I do think medium density is acceptable. It's what it's guided for, and so that decision has been made quite a while back. I do believe that the AUAR is extremely important, and I like to emphasize some additional points in the AUAR in the context of the environmental features we specify Bluff Creek Overlay District, wetlands and bluffs. I would like to add in them open space and trees. And then also as part of the AUAR, I wanted to ask whether it would make sense to have a fiscal tax element in there? Does that fit in there Kate? Aanenson: Yes because there will be some infrastructure improvements and some obligation on the city for over sizing roads and the like so I think that would certainly be a component. Sacchet: So that would be okay to put in, okay. Because I think that's an important component to look at in this context. Then I, like everybody, I have a concern about the density, but I think it's too early to really address that. I mean it's guided as medium density, that allows up to 8 19 Planning Commission Meeting- October 15, 2002 units per acre. And yes, with the PUD there is that aspect that we talked about, there is a density transfer for a certain amount of units that could potentially be considered. Would have to be negotiated, discussed. I mean there has to be a balance found but we're way premature to really be specific about that at this point. Of course I want high quality and low price. I mean who doesn't. But I would say the balance is, in terms of the units we've seen in Shakopee, I really wasn't that overwhehned with the apartment size types. The real iow ends. However on the other hand I would like to see some affordable components in there so we'll have to find a balance with that. I think the conservation easement aspect of this project is exceptional in that basically all sensitive areas with the concept that's in front of us will be preserved, so I think that's an extremely good thing. The aspect of transitions. Is that mentioned as part of the AUAR? Aanenson: Which? Sacchet: Transitions. Aanenson: I made that condition number 2. That's part of the PUD. Try to separate AUAR and then the PUD. Sacchet: So transition, oh yeah. Specifically say transitions. I don't see the word in there. If you could add transitions, because I think that's a very valid concern from the neighbors across the street. The aspect of traffic I think is included in the AUAR, and I just want to emphasize that again that this is definitely very important. On the other hand, personally I believe that with the 312 coming in, and Powers going to go through, and Powers actually being the access point onto 312, that Powers will off load a lot of the traffic, through traffic that's currently on Audubon so that there should be a considerable improvement when that happens. And then finally, when we discussed the Bluff Creek Overlay District aspect in condition number 6. I would like to specifically add the 3 aspects that are listed on the page 7 of the staff report that preserve and manage the high quality wetland complexes, riparian areas and oak woodlands to extend the high quality systems of the Gorge Region. 2. Restore impaired ecosystems and their natural conditions. And 3. Re-create natural links between major natural features within the Bluff Creek con-idor. I think those should be specified because they're important goals and they should be guiding elements in terms of the environmental preservation that we' re striving for there. That's my con-unents, thank you. Blackowiak: Okay, LuAnn. Go ahead. Sidney: I guess it's my turn. I guess I've been on the Planning Commission, what is it close to 6 years. Is it coming up on 6 years2 Blackowiak: I think so. Sidney: It's been a long time, and I guess in this case, well I've seen a few concept plans and in this case I guess I feel the least comfortable of the various, with this concept plan compared to the other ones that I' ve seen in my tenure. I guess it barely, in my book, meets requirements and Uli touched on some of the things that are really things that should be included in the concept plan that may be included in the next stage of discussions. I think the developer is aware that we have many, many, many questions, and I hope that they understand that we have certain expectations for this potential development. And obviously we have expectations that are quite high. I hope we have given you some guidance in that respect, and again I think density is going to be a major issue and the developer, potential developer may wish to evaluate what is the least dense that 20 Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 would be financially acceptable to them and decide if that is doable or not because that issue will come up. We had a number of questions from our last meeting, and I chaired that meeting and I wish to kind of just touch on these briefly and then have that included in the next staff report or actually it should be included in what's going to City Council. The reason being is that again we had lots of questions, which may not be appropriaie for a concept plan but things that I'd like on the record to be addressed at some point. First off, really the Park a,nd Rec input from Todd Hoffman and his group, to be included and a discussion about sidewalks. School district input from the School District directly. Notification of Chaska residents. Kate did a good job on that, and certainly we need to continue that in the future. Discussion about land use designation of the Wagner property. I believe we addressed that, and the adjacent Chaska land uses so we're aware of that. Product types and general layouts of streets. If we can catch that one early, that would be good in discussions. And really I think again the density is going to be a big issue and how that compares to other areas within Chanhassen. Nature of amenities, tax implications, delineation of transition areas, additional options for a mixed residential industrial I guess is off the table actually and not being considered. Impact on Degler property, and that may be addressed in the area wide review. Again, reduction in density, affordability of residential units, location of conservation easements and cost of services, and I have this in a list Kate I can give you so. I'm willing to go forward with this. Certainly you know it's going to take a lot of work and probably many, many meetings with Planning Commission, but I can see that you know if Town and Country's willing to work with us, we could really do a good job on this PUD so I'm willing to move this forward. Blackowiak: Okay, thank you. I just have a few comments. I too have struggled, and I know Kate and I said this last meeting, with the idea of what constitutes a complete application. And we've got the 6 points. This is what you have to include and I remember when we had our meeting and City Attorney Mr. Knutson was there, and I asked him specifically if an, what constitutes a complete application. In other words, did we have to have all components. He said yes. I don't think we have it. And I just, I just want to state that for the record. I am willing to go forward tonight on this concept but I'm not comfortable and I think the City Council should really look closely because we do not have a lot of the requirements that are set forth in the Chanhassen City Code, and nowhere in the City Code can we as a commission, or planning staff, no one can waive any of these requirements according to my reading and according to what the city attorney said the night we met with him. So I'd just like to state that one for the record. I think an AUAR should be done first. I think that we're putting the cart before the horse in this case, and we're talking about major roads, common, public and common open space. Things like that that really I think should be put in place before we start looking at specific developments, even in the concept. I mean is the idea good? Yes. I think a PUD is definitely what we need for this property. Should we be starting to make promises that before we even do an AUAR? I don't think so. I think we need to make sure that we get, that's the building block and that's the main tool that we have to look at this entire area. Over 800 acres. This is 1/10 of that area. So we've got a very small piece of the pie here before us this evening, and I think we need to look at the big picture before we start getting too specific on any little picture. I' m kind of disappointed in the lack of additional information. I was glad that LuAnn had her list again tonight. We had asked for a lot more information. We didn't see. Aanenson: I'm confident all those are either in the area wide review, or the PUD standards so I' ve addressed every one of them except for the mixed use development and I think they were all addressed. Either as a condition of the area wide review or the two work sessions. I believe they were all addressed. 21 Planning Co~mnission Meeting- October 15, 2002 Blackowiak: Well there were certain information that we requested, specifically input from Park and Rec department, which we did not get tonight. Aanenson: Park and Rec report was in there. They've identified a regional park in the area that is not in this application and it's part of the area wide review and Todd's commented on it in a staff report. Blackowiak: That's fine, thank you Kate. District 112. We asked for input from them. We did not get that. Information on 312 connection. How can we possibly fit this in? And again, this may all need to be addressed in the AUAR. I agree with that, but I'd like to see that first. Tonight I wanted to hear more from Town and Country. I wanted to be sold a little bit more. You know what have you changed? What is going to make this application more complete because last time we tabled it because we felt that it wasn't complete. We have the same maps. I really didn't hear much more new and that' s kind of disappointing to me. That being said, that' s kind of my frustration with this. But my feeling is that we work in effect, Rich do you want to say something? Slagle: I do want to say something, if I may ask. Kate can you address the Chair's comment regarding the City Attorney and the 6. I don't remember that but. Blackowiak: That was at our meeting with City Council. Aanenson: I have a different opinion but I'm not going to. Stagle: Okay, but I mean are you, was his comment that yes you needed to have these 6? Aanenson: I didn't hear that. I asked Roger about this so. Stagle: Okay. Because I mean it's an important question that if the City Attorney has told us that we need 6. Blackowiak: Well I asked him specifically that night what constituted a complete application, and he said you had to have all components. And it's unfortunate we didn't have that recorded that night but I wanted to make sure that I understood that correctly because this such an important piece. And such an irnportant project. Aanenson: I believe the question was asked, when is the 60 day comment started, when you have a completed application. The staff did, who determines a completed application? The staff determines it's a completed application. Again, some of the things on here are not, we can put a sidewalk on there. The staff told them that it didn't make sense to draw a sidewalk on there when we kmow that it's going to change. Until we know exactly where the road's going to go, what's the point of drawing sidewalks? It's kind of esoteric and again the point is here, at what level we're going to have the discussion? This is the first scale project we've done where we don't have the roads in place. When we looked at 7 and 41, the city, with the State of Minnesota up- fronted that money. The other large PUD we did, which was Villages on the Ponds, the road system was in place. This is the first project of this scale that we're doing in this, and the developer is up-fronting some of that money to start the process so just again, the two need to work together, but we need a project to go forward to start the study so, if you're not ready to go forward and think it's premature, then we stay until someone else comes forward and is ready to say, I'm ready to go forward. Let's start the process because that's how it works. A project comes forward, then we start the process. Unless the council authorizes to expend those kind of 22 Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 dollars or if you have them allocated so. School District 112 is aware. They're looking at this site. We've talked to them. They have not made a decision. Council is aware of the discussions between the two parties. Blackowiak: And I understand Kate. What I'm trying to say though is we had asked for a lot of information and I don't feel that we got anything, or very little new tonight. So that's kind of my real frustration is that we asked. We didn't get it, so you know what are we here for? I mean what are we looking at? I get the feeling that we need to move this forward tonight and I will certainly, I will actually vote to move this forward, but with very serious reservations and, especially what Uli and LuAnn stated. I think some of those concerns are extremely valid and need to be flushed out before we even see it again. So with that I'd like a motion please. Sacchet: Madam Chair, I'd like to make a motion that the Planning Commission recommends approval of the concept PUD for the Town and Country on the Bernardi property as outlined in the staff report of October 15~, '02 with the following conditions 1 through 8 with the following changes, l(b) will include also open space and trees. Adding a l(f). Talking about the fiscal tax study. Number 2. I guess it falls under, where does the transition fit? Neighborhood connections maybe or where would you put that Kate? Aanenson: I had buffering but if you want to add buffering and backslash transitions. Sacchet: Okay, buffering and transitions. Now, the understanding is transitions is not necessarily just in the sense of landscaping. I mean it can also be transitions of densities for instance. Aanenson: Different uses. Different. Sacchet: Uses, yes. I mean it's transitions also in that context, just be clear about it. And I would put in a bunch more commas actually in that condition number 2. I think it's 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 comma deficient. Then condition number 6. I'd like to specifically spell out the 3 Bluff Creek Watershed natural resource management plan goals. I won't repeat them. I think I've stated them before. And that's my motion. Blackowiak: Okay, there's been a motion. Is there a second? Lillehaug: I second with a friendly amendment. Sacchet: Please. Lillehaug: To l(c). I would like to add onto that to include the ongoing considerations of the existing studies and reports, the design and the construction of 312 and Powers Boulevard. Sacchet: That's acceptable. Blackowiak: Okay, there's been a motion and a second. Sacchet moved, Lillehaug seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval of the Conceptual PUD for Town and Country Homes on 88.5 acres of property located on the east side of Audubon Road, south of Lyman Boulevard and north of Pioneer Trail, subject to the following conditions: 23 Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 . , o The applicant st'tall contribute to the preparation of an Alternative Urban Area Wide Review (AUAR) in lieu of an EAW for the 2005 MUSA area. The AUAR shall study the following issues: a. d. Public facilities-schools, parks, utilities, fire station. Environmental features-Bluff Creek Overlay District, wetlands/bluff, open spaces and trees. Transportation system-traffic/road plan and the ongoing considerations of the existing studies and reports, the design and the construction of 312 and Powers Boulevard. Utilities-sewer, water, storin sewer. In addition, the AUAR shall address the following issues: i. Potential school sites, fire station, water tower, and creek crossing. Collector road systems as well as traffic, infrastructure requirements: sewer, water, storm sewer and natural resources, including wetlands, trees and slopes. Fiscal tax study. A medium density PUD shall be created with the following items addressed: landscaping, (entrance, streetscape, buffering and transitions), possible support commercial, neighborhood connections, (trails, sidewalks), design standards, ( materials, architectural details and variety), transit (slip off lanes), public access to park areas, preservation of natural features, (bluffs, wetland, trees), housing plans (range of product and price). The applicant shall petition the City for city smwices (sewer, water, etc.). The applicant shall develop a housing diversity plan. All wetlands on site shall be delineated by a qualified wetland delineator, checked by city staff and surveyed by a registered land surveyor prior to the development of more detailed plans for this site. The applicant shall keep the following goals for the Lowlands Region of the Bluff Creek Overlay District in mind as a plan is developed for the site and work with staff to achieve these goals for this property: a, Preserve and manage the high quality wetland complexes, riparian areas and oak woodlands to extend the high quality system of the Gorge Region; Restore ilnpaired ecosystems to their natural condition; and Re-create natural links between major natural features within the Bluff Creek corridor. . The applicant shall arrange for the Bluff Creek primary and secondary zone boundaries to be field verified by staff prior to the development of a more detailed plan for this site. The Building and Fire Marshal comments shall be incorporated into the next level of review. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. 24 Planning Commission Meeting - October 15, 2002 Krista Flemming: I just want to thank you for your time and consideration and we hear all your comments and your concerns and we are definitely going to come back the next time with more information in the AUAR study, so I believe more of these questions will be... 25