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CC 2010 10 11 CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING OCTOBER 11, 2010 Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Furlong, Councilman Litsey, Councilwoman Ernst, and Councilman McDonald COUNCIL MEMBERS ABSENT: Councilwoman Tjornhom STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Laurie Hokkanen, Kate Aanenson, Paul Oehme, and Roger Knutson PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Mayor Furlong: Thank you and welcome to those here in the council chambers as well as those watching at home. We’re glad that you took time today to join us and especially we have some scouts here this evening working on some merit badges so welcome to the two of you and others. At this time I’d like to ask members of the council if there are any changes or modifications to the agenda. If not, without objection we’ll proceed with the agenda as published. CONSENT AGENDA:Councilman Litsey moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s recommendations: a. Approval of Minutes: -City Council Work Session Minutes dated September 27, 2010 -City Council Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated September 27, 2010 Receive Commission Minutes: -Planning Commission Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated September 21, 2010 b. Approve Amendment to Chapter 20 of the City Code Concerning Temporary Outdoor Sales. c. Approval of 2011/2012 Service Agreement for Joint Assessment with Carver County Assessor. d. Approval of Temporary On-Sale Liquor License, St. Hubert Catholic Community, 8201 Main Street, November 6, 2010, German Dinner. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 PUBLIC HEARING: RED CEDAR POINT RECONSTRUCTION PROJECT 10-01(B): ASSESSMENT HEARING; AWARD CONTRACT. Public Present: Name Address Gary Peterson 3710 Red Cedar Point Road Susan Proshek 3613 Red Cedar Point Road Jeff Shiva 3617 Red Cedar Point Road Steve Keuseman 3622 Red Cedar Point Road Dorothy Downing 7200 Juniper Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor, City Council members. As you may recall we had a public hearing on this project back in January and since then staff has been working with the property owners on some details with the project. The project had originally anticipated to start this summer but due to some delays in design and other considerations associated with the project we decided to delay the project to this fall. Proposed to start this fall just for the watermain improvements for the project. Some of the changes since the feasibility study was brought before you in January. We’ve eliminated a storm sewer. Storm water pond in the area based upon residential feedback and we’ve modified some of the street design in the area as well. We also are considering directional boring the watermain this fall which will reduce impacts during construction to the residents. This is more of a phased in approach to some of the feedback we’ve received from the property owners was not to, try to limit the amount of impacts to this neighborhood because of the narrow width of the streets in this area and to try to decrease the amount of construction during the summer months as well. So we did visit with the property th owners on September 19, or 29. About a week and a half ago and 8 residents did attend that meeting so with that just some basic background since we had that hearing in January. We’d like to move forward now with presentation of the project itself and discuss the bids that we received from, for this project. For that I’d like to invite Kevin Kawlewski with WSB and Associates. They were the ones that designed that project for us and helped the City bid out the project. Kevin Kawlewski: Good evening Honorable Mayor, members of the council. It’s nice to be back in front of you tonight. It has been a while since we’ve talked about this project. We do have a power point if we can get that pulled up. This is the assessment hearing for the Red Cedar Point project that is part of the City’s 2010 street reconstruction program. The assessment hearing is required per Statute 429 for the use of assessment funds. The project area is just north of Highway 5 on the east side of Lake Minnewashta Parkway. It does include Red Cedar Point which is the Red Cedar Point Road, which is the long street going down the middle. Juniper Avenue which is the north/south. South Cedar Drive on the south end and Hickory Road on the north end. The improvements that we’ve included with the project, we are looking at reconstructing the streets to their same general widths. We are looking at some minor corrections for geometric concerns and safety concerns. We are adding some curb along Red Cedar Point Drive to pick up storm water drainage and direct that to the pond on the west side of Lake Minnewashta Parkway. That will allow for some pre-treatment of that water. We are 2 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 looking to replace all the cast iron watermain. We are using predominately directional drilling methods. That will limit disruption for the watermain installation. We will not be open trenching the watermain. We do have lots of trees. Lots to build and lots of retaining walls right next to the roadway so we want to do as little damage as we can installing the watermain. We are looking at some minor improvements to the sanitary sewer system. We’re replacing castings to minimize surface inflow into the system and also some joint sealing and manholes to prevent ground flow infiltration. We are looking at also replacing one storm sewer culvert. At the public hearing in January we did include some extensive drainage improvements, piping and a storm water pond. In dealing with the watershed district we have been able to remove those features from this project based on residents that we did receive from residents. About the only storm water improvement, the drainage will stay consistently as it is today. We’ve got some minor grading on Hickory Road. We’re putting a curb on the south side of that and allowing water to sheet drain to the south and it will be directed to a swale that goes out to the lake just south of, I can’t read the name of that street but it’s just at the very west end of Hickory Road. It’s an abandoned right-of-way. There is a swale that goes out to the lake right now. We are, we will be doing some drain tile installation on Red Cedar Point Road inbetween Juniper Avenue and Hickory Road and there’s a storm water culvert that we’ll be replacing in that area as well. To get to where we are at, this is part of the City’s pavement reconstruction program. The numbers here reflect the pavement condition index of each of the sections of road out here. We have some 11’s. Some 40’s. 37’s. 38. The average pci in this area is 48 and that is weighted based on all the streets out here. With the pci of 45 it is recommended for reconstruction per the City’s guidelines so many of the streets out here are below that. Some are higher but when you look at a reconstruction program like this, you want to keep these grouped together so you’re not reconstructing things at different times. Rebuilding areas of newer street that you’ve just replaced when you have to come back and hit other areas. So it’s a way of grouping things and catching, getting everything back on the same schedule for reconstruction. These are the existing systems that we have out here. The sanitary sewer again, we are not going to replace. We’re looking at minor joint sealing. Spot repairs. Those kind of things. We are looking at replacing all of the watermain out here. We will be directional drilling with a plastic pipe. New services will be cut in with new curb stops installed at the right-of-way. We are proposing to abandon the existing watermain on the very north end of this map. It goes through some back yards along the shoreline of Lake Minnewashta. We are looking at a secondary loop to replace that. That will get it away from the lakeshore. Audience: Where’s it going to move to? Where’s the secondary point? Kevin Kawlewski: The secondary line is proposed to go straight to the west from Hickory Road and tie into a watermain system that comes across the Red Cedar Point Cove townhome complex. That watermain currently loops back to the south along the east property line of that townhome complex. We’re proposing to go straight across and minimize disruption closer to the lake. We’re working with the property owner to get an easement and that again would be directionally drilled so there would be no surface disruption in there. Looking at our pavement sections, Red Cedar Point Drive from the high point to the west to Lake Minnewashta Drive, we’re installing curb. We’re looking at a little bit heavier pavement section. 24 inches of select granular over a geotextile fabric. 10 inches of Class V. 3 ½ inches of bituminous pavement. As we look at the other streets we are looking at 10 inches of Class V over geotextile fabric. Again 3 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 with the 3 ½ inches of bituminous pavement. The construction as Paul mentioned in his report we’re looking at phasing the project. The goal is to get the watermain system installed yet this fall. Directional drilling will go fairly quickly. The major work with the sewer system replacement, be installing new water services. The new services will have to be open cut. They have to be visually inspected to make that connection so we’ll get the new watermain in this fall. Get everything tested and ready to go and they’ll be looking to redo the streets so if there are any settlements from the service connection they’ll have one freeze thaw cycle to settle out before we start doing any actual street reconstruction. We’re looking at having the project complete mid July next year. The purposes of doing the directional drill again is to minimize disruption. Maximize access during the project. The only open cuts will be for the service trenches. Service connections and we’re not going to be opening up all of the roads in the project area at one time so we’re going to limit where they can work so you can sequence such that the only way that they won’t be able to get in is when we’re sub-cutting that section of Red Cedar Point Drive. Otherwise it’s going to be open at the end of the day and in the morning so people who are out here all year round will be able to get out before construction starts for the day and after it’s done for the day. Everything will be passable on a daily basis. We will be notifying residents. We’ll have weekly newsletters. Again we’ll do the magnets like we did on the Erie Avenue project so those will be available to all residents. City forces will be coordinating relocation of temporary mailboxes. Garbage service is always an issue. We’ve worked with contractors in the past. They’ve been transporting garbage cans out to where they’re collectable and easier for the haulers so it’s not going to be the resident’s responsibility. They’ll still be able to put them out on their driveway. The contractor will move them out to where they can be picked up and brought back to the individual residences. Looking at the project cost, the numbers we have up here tonight include all contingencies and indirect costs. Financing bonds. Engineering. All other contingencies. Surface improvements. $660,576. Watermain improvements $457,088. Sanitary sewer just about $47,000 and the storm water improvements of just about $21,000. Our total project cost $1,185,285.36. As we look at the calculation of assessments, it is the City’s practice to assess 40% of the street cost. 60% being paid by City funds. As we look at the assessments we have 67 single family units and we have 3.18 equivalent single family units for the townhome complex and how we’ve calculated that is the front footage of the average lot size and we come up with about 3 times the average footage on the townhome lot so they’re being assessed, proposed to be assessed at 3.18 times the rate of a single family unit. I believe there are 18 townhomes within Red Cedar Cove and that works out to about $700 per individual unit in the townhome complex. Looking at this again for the total amount assessed again $274,397.63. This represents 40% of the street cost on the project and these numbers do reflect the bids that we have received so they’re actual costs. Looking at the assessment for single family units, you’ve got the 274 divided by the 70.18 units. That gives us $3,909.91 per single family lot and how that equates to the townhome units, it’s the $3,909.91 times that 3.18 units so the townhome complex is being assessed $12,433.51 which is $690.75 per townhome. Looking at the terms of the assessment, it is proposed to assess this over a 10 year term at 5.25% interest. st The interest is proposed to be deferred until January 1 of 2012. Property owners will have the ability to pay off the assessments without interest until December 31, 2012. Audience: Did you double check that date because there was significant questions about that at the last meeting. 4 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Audience: I thought you said 2010. Mayor Furlong: If we can let’s hold on questions for a little bit and we’ll make sure we’ll get all the questions answered so let’s keep going. Kevin Kawlewski: Thank you. Mayor Furlong: We’ll get all the questions answered because I have a question on this as well. Kevin Kawlewski: Okay. Looking at the funding sources for the project, the street improvements, again 40% to be assessed. $274,397.62. We have revolving assessments, $386,178.75 so our total street improvement costs of $667, or $660,576. comes from the assessment fund. We have water enterprise funds in the amount of $457,088.83. Sanitary sewer enterprise funds of $46,894.44 and again storm water enterprise funds of $20,725.72. The th project schedule, we’ve got the assessment hearing tonight, October 11. If the council adopts the assessment roll you can proceed with awarding the contract. Watermain construction would begin following the pre-con within the next couple of weeks. The substantial completion date rd for the water system work is December 3 and again street work would start early next spring th with substantial completion July 15 of 2012. That concludes the presentation. We are available for questions. Public input. Mayor Furlong: Okay, very good. Members of the council, any questions for staff, or excuse me. Mr. Oehme, anything that you wanted to add at this point in time or… Paul Oehme: Yeah, at our last neighborhood meeting we discussed the terms on the proposed assessments and what was indicated in the, in the notifications is the correct terms that we were proposing for this project so. Mayor Furlong: In terms of the interest rates? Paul Oehme: In terms of the interest rate. In terms of when the assessment can be paid off in full without any interest. Mayor Furlong: And just to clarify that. The City needs to at some point, and I know Mr. Sticha isn’t here, our Director of Finance at some point has to attach the assessments if they’re not paid off to the property tax bills and can it be as late as December of 2011? December 31, 2011 or would they have already been attached for the coming year? My concern is that if somebody pays at the end and maybe there’s a mechanism where if that pays that that doesn’t become part of the property tax or it can be waived or. Roger Knutson: They can, the first payment will be due in 2012. Mayor Furlong: Correct. Roger Knutson: They can pay off before then. 5 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Mayor Furlong: Okay but when. Todd Gerhardt: …certifying the assessments. Mayor Furlong: But we certify the assessments prior to the last day. th Todd Gerhardt: I think it’s the 30 we have. Mayor Furlong: Of November? Todd Gerhardt: December. To give them our assessments. Roger Knutson: They’ll be certified to the County. Mayor Furlong: On the very last day of the calendar year? Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Paul Oehme: We have to send our, the assessment rolls over to the County by I think the end of November here and then they get put on the tax rolls at the County at the end of the year. Mayor Furlong: Okay but that’s my question. Roger Knutson: They get certified to the County. The reason I’m hesitating on the date is every county has a different date and it’s a matter of getting it there so they can get them on the rolls. This time it won’t matter frankly but we’ll, it’s sometime in November they’ll be sent over to the County but the first, so they’ll be attached to the property if you will sometime in November. Mayor Furlong: And that would be November of 2011. Roger Knutson: Yes. No, 2010. We’re going to send them over now. Mayor Furlong: But the first payment won’t be. Roger Knutson: Won’t be til 2012. Mayor Furlong: Until 2012. Roger Knutson: Right. Mayor Furlong: Okay. So it would be a pending assessment or it would be attached to the property as of November of this year. Roger Knutson: It will be considered a levied assessment. 6 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Mayor Furlong: Levied assessment. Okay. Audience: So what’s the date that they have to be paid if you want to pay without interest? Roger Knutson: December 31, 2011. Mayor Furlong: And that’s consistent with what was presented here… th Todd Gerhardt: …we have to certify down to the County by December 30. So we put. Roger Knutson: But you can pay. There’s no interest attaches then until January 1, 2012. There is no interest until January 1, 2012. Todd Gerhardt: But if you want to pay the principal off. Roger Knutson: They could pay it off anytime without interest until January. Until December 31 of 2011 without interest. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Roger Knutson: Mayor, the reason this is confusing, at least from my experience. This is a bit unusual to delay the first payment for that extra year. You can do it but it’s unusual and it causes some confusion. Apologize for that. Paul Oehme: This is kind of not a typical project because we’re splitting up the watermain improvements for this year and delaying the roadway improvements until next year and that’s basically the assessment, the assessable amount is the street improvement project so we didn’t want to accrue interest before the street improvements are completed. Mayor Furlong: And from that standpoint that is I guess consistent with our past practices. If we, and for streets that have been constructed during a particular summer amount of period, the following year those assessments get attached and would accrue interest if not paid in full by the end of that year during which the construction occurs. Paul Oehme: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: For the street construction. So that’s consistent. Okay. Other questions? I have a couple but are there any other questions that, Councilwoman Ernst do you have a question? Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah, just a quick question. In the body of the cost here we talk about the underground conversion was originally going to be part of the project but the residents felt that the cost was too high so therefore the conversion’s not going to be part of the project. What is the reduction of cost to each property owner for the assessment? So what is that cost amount to for the reduction? 7 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Paul Oehme: For the private utilities? Yeah. The proposed assessments just include the street portion of the improvements to the benefitting property owners at 40% that we talked about. The private utilities are not included in the assessment at all at this time. That would be above and beyond what we’re proposing. Councilwoman Ernst: Right but originally they were going to be right? Paul Oehme: Not originally. We talked to the utility company Xcel about the cost associated with undergrounding the utilities and due to the high cost of undergrounding those utilities in this development area the feedback that we received from the property owners is that they would prefer not to move forward with undergrounding the utilities at this time. Councilwoman Ernst: And I’m just curious what that cost was. I know it’s not going to be taken out of this project but I was just curious what that was. Paul Oehme: Yeah do you, I thought it was. Kevin Kawlewski: The cost of that was approximately $2,500 per residence and that would have been above and beyond the assessment for the street improvement. Councilwoman Ernst: Right. Okay, thank you. Mayor Furlong: Any questions at this time? Councilman Litsey? Councilman Litsey: No. Mayor Furlong: Councilman McDonald? One question with regard to the storm water management. I know there were changes from what was originally, could you bring up that schedule again and explain what we’re doing on the north end of near Hickory. What we are going to be doing. Storm water management improvements. And my question involves a little bit, there’s some surface pooling that occurs on the roadway right now and so what are doing… Kevin Kawlewski: Sure, the surface improvements or the pooling is occurring on the north side of Hickory Road along that shoulder. Mayor Furlong: By Juniper and. Kevin Kawlewski: Yes, from Juniper to the west. And there’s also some that occurs just up on the west side of Juniper. What we are doing is we’re putting a curb along the south side of Hickory and we’re going to sheet drain, so we’re going to have a 2% slope across instead of a typical crown. We’re just going to sheet drain it and that way we can grade out some of those areas where it dumps across the pavement into the curb and that will be directed down to the west to the swale just south of, just south of that right-of-way to the very west. Mayor Furlong: So is it going to sheet drain to the south? 8 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Kevin Kawlewski: To the south and then it will follow the curb line to the west. Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then. Kevin Kawlewski: Then it’ll go through a vegetative swale before it gets to the lake. Mayor Furlong: And then it will go north out to the lake. Kevin Kawlewski: Yes. Mayor Furlong: Out to the lake at that point. Kevin Kawlewski: Yes. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. And other storm water improvements, if anything there’s a culvert that you mentioned. Kevin Kawlewski: There is a culvert that exists now in that location that’s shown up there. What we are proposing to do is replace that and we’re also going to add some drain tile in there to eliminate the surface water ponding. Mayor Furlong: Anything on the southwest portion? Kevin Kawlewski: No, there’s nothing in the southwest portion. No. And we have met with the watershed. Mayor Furlong: Is it effective, is what’s happening there now effective or? Kevin Kawlewski: Currently it sheet drains to that center lot just south of where the culvert is and that is in essence a wetland so the water currently goes there now and that’s being effective enough by the watershed that we don’t need to do anything. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Thank you. And then with regard to the assessment portions and the allocation, I understand from the map that you used for the townhome allocation, and I guess my question is for Mr. Oehme. Is this consistent with what we did in the South Shore neighborhood when we had those assessments? Paul Oehme: Yeah, I would liken it to more the Laredo project that we completed, where we used more front footage basis for our calculation of different housing types and under that project we had a commercial. We had a school. We had apartments complex so we looked at a different methodology for that. I think in the South Shore case that was a little bit, as I recall I think the townhouses were a little bit less dense out in that area and we kind of went through that whole scenario too of front footage basis and I think at that point in time the numbers kind of calqued out to base, and that was an overlay project too. Not a reconstruction project. 9 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Mayor Furlong: Right. Paul Oehme: So I think the numbers back then calqued out to very similarly to what single family unit would have been assessed so. Mayor Furlong: Now Red Cedar Curve is the street that comes out of Red Cedar Point into the townhome development, correct? Paul Oehme: Correct, yeah. Mayor Furlong: Is that a private street or public street? Paul Oehme: It’s private. Mayor Furlong: It is a private road? Paul Oehme: Private road. Mayor Furlong: Okay. So, and we’re not doing any reconstruction of a private road obviously then. Paul Oehme: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: Maybe it’s a silly question but. Paul Oehme: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: Because it’s a private road that will be the responsibility of the association and property owners when that road, if they decide when to make improvements to that street. Paul Oehme: That’s correct, yep. Mayor Furlong: Alright. Thank you. Any other questions at this point? If not then what I’d like to do is open up the public hearing and just to try to providing a little bit of order and deal with common issues that may come up by residents that are along the same street. My thought would be is initially to call up people by street and we’ll deal with issues that might, you know for example if Hickory, if there’s an issue common among the residents we’ll be able to deal with that issue first. I want to make sure everybody has an opportunity to talk so at the end we’ll certainly open it up again for anybody that hasn’t had an opportunity to talk yet. I’d like to avoid multiple comments or multiple times to the podium so if you could bring your list of questions and let’s get them addressed as efficiently as we can so we can move through this because we do want to make sure that we give everybody an opportunity to talk and all the questions get answered so we may have you stay at the podium and wait while we address some of the questions rather than you having you go back and forth. If that makes sense to everybody so let’s go ahead, just a list I’ve created in no particular order. Let’s start with residents or property owners along Red Cedar Point Road. If any of them would like to come forward and address the 10 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 council. Please sir, if you could come up to the podium and if everybody could please state their name and address for the Minutes and provide any comments to the council on this project and assessments or get any questions that you might want answered. Gary Peterson: My name is Gary Peterson. I have property on 3710 Red Cedar Point Road and my question is, where is this culvert you just, is that coming out of my property in the corner there? Kevin Kawlewski: The culvert you can see is the green line on the map. That is, if you see where Red Cedar is. Yep, right there. Right in there. That is in the current location. There is an existing culvert there now that we are replacing. Gary Peterson: Okay. And you talk about tile there too. Kevin Kawlewski: There’s going to be some drain tile in that area to eliminate some of the surface water next to the roadway but that will all be within right-of-way. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you, anything else? Sir on the project at all? No, I’m just, did you have any other questions or comments that you wanted to comment to the council? Gary Peterson: Not now. Mayor Furlong: Okay again if we can get them all at once rather than back and forth. Anybody else, if you’d just like to come up and I don’t need to call from the audience. Whoever would like to talk, please come up if you’re on Red Cedar Point. Please ma’am. Susan Proshek: Hello. Susan Proshek. 3613 Red Cedar Point Road. That’s right where the private road begins. Mayor Furlong: Do we have a map that we can put on the table here? Mrs. Proshek, if you could come back. If we can just lay it on the table and then we’ll be able to see it from the overhead camera so people at home can see as well. Susan Proshek: Okay. So I think I’m about there. Is that it? Audience: Yep. Susan Proshek: So we’re right at the cul-de-sac. Part of our property is on the public road and part is on the private road and a couple questions. One is you mentioned something about a storm water pond that was voted against. Where was that going to be? Paul Oehme: That was off of Hickory. Kevin Kawlewski: Hickory and Juniper. That was proposed in this area. 11 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Susan Proshek: Okay. Well we have a bit of a problem on the private road and I think a lot of us do too. Hardscape and there’s some public property right about here that is quite overgrown and I think it was originally intended to be draining off of water from the roadway. I don’t know if anybody’s familiar with that little 20 feet of land there. And I don’t know how efficient it is. I don’t know perhaps it needs to be cleaned out or dug out or maybe that’s so much water going into the lake, I’m not sure. A lot of water ends up running down into our lot on this side and the road, and I’m wondering is anything going to be done on the private road. Anything improved about water runoff? Is the private road going to be chewed up and stuff done there? Paul Oehme: Sure. I’ll try to answer those questions real quick. The extent of Red Cedar Point there is, there is some public watermain and some sanitary sewer that we’d like to, the watermain we’d like to replace that so in terms of the watermain, we’re going to directional bore that piece of pipe as much as we can and there will be some impacts to the driveway. We have an easement over that, over the driveway to replace that watermain. For that and then we’ll come back in next year and replace that section of road as well so in terms of drainage though, there’s limited I think improvements that can be handled out there. In terms of the easement that goes to the road, or to the lake on the north side there. Somewhat difficult to get some drainage back in there. I know we’ve looked at that and we’re trying to address that as much as we can. We don’t have it in the plans to remove any vegetation out to the lake at this time but you know maybe that’s something we can visit with the property owners over the, during construction too and see if it makes sense to try to open that area up a little bit. Susan Proshek: Really. Do it at that time? Okay. And what is the disruption to the private road? Paul Oehme: Again we’re going to, we have to, we’d like to, we’ve had some problems with the watermain in this development so we’d like to replace all the watermain at this time. Susan Proshek: So you’ll be doing the directional thing along that road also? Paul Oehme: Yep, exactly. We’re going to try to do that as much as we can. Out in the north end of the project area it’s a little bit more difficult to get the directional bore pipe in there because we have no place to stage the pipes. Susan Proshek: Out here you mean? Paul Oehme: Yep, out there exactly. So we’re going to, we might have to open cut that a little bit more but again we’re going to replace that driveway to it’s original condition as best as we can. Susan Proshek: Okay. I think that’s it then. Mayor Furlong: If I can just follow up on that then Mr. Oehme. Is the direction going, are there public utilities to go underneath the private road. Paul Oehme: That’s correct. 12 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Mayor Furlong: And are those going to be replaced? Paul Oehme: Yes. The watermain will be replaced. Mayor Furlong: The watermain will be replaced but not the sewer. Paul Oehme: Not the sewer. In conjunction with that the services to that connect from the watermain to the houses, those will be replaced up to the property owners as well so. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. And then, but using directional boring techniques here, we don’t expect significant disruption to the private road? Paul Oehme: No. It will definitely limit the amount of disruption to the private road under this scenario as opposed to open cutting it but again there’s going to have to be someplace where we have a more pit and put that pipe in the ground so there will be some disruption out there this fall when we have to like insert…we have to open cut those services too so there will be some trenches that will have to be open cut again this fall. Mayor Furlong: But then they’ll be restored. Paul Oehme: Exactly, and next year they’ll be restored. Todd Gerhardt: So just to expand on it Paul. Is it the plan to do a mill and overlay on the private drive or replace it completely or just patch it where you have to do the open cuts? Paul Oehme: Yeah, we’re going to beef up that section of roadway through there as well so basically it’s the same standard as we had throughout the eastern half of the project area so it’s about 10 inches of gravel that we’ll put back in there. Todd Gerhardt: So it would be totally rebuilt. Paul Oehme: Right, it’s going to have to be rebuilt. Todd Gerhardt: So you’ll have brand new pavement. Mayor Furlong: The private road? Paul Oehme: Well it’s a, yeah it’s a 7 ton standard through there so we have to build it up to a higher standard than just say a driveway so. Mayor Furlong: And are we doing that because we’re tearing it up as part of the construction? Paul Oehme: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: So we’re going to rebuild what we tear up. 13 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Paul Oehme: Exactly and that basically when we look at the borings out there, it’s pretty much, we’re going to pretty much match what’s out there in this location. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor and council, it may not be the entire road that’s going to be tore up but by the time you cut in the trenches, you’re going to have probably a good half of the road tore up and to rebuild half a road does not make any sense so you want to go back in there and bring it back to it’s original condition. Councilman Litsey: But aren’t we actually upgrading it a little bit to a 9? Paul Oehme: Yeah, well in this area I don’t know you know what the tonnage is but it’s 3 inches of asphalt over you know 10 inches of rock so it’s a little bit heavier standard give or take a little bit from what it is out there but it’s I think it’s a needed improvement out here since we are open cutting it for those services and having to disrupt the road section or the driveway as much as we are. Councilman Litsey: So it’d be consistent with the design standards for the rest of the project? Paul Oehme: More or less. It’s pretty much what’s out there right now so we’re just kind of matching it. Councilman Litsey: Okay. Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst, question? Councilwoman Ernst: Paul can you clarify what disruption is just so the resident understands what to expect? Paul Oehme: Yep, and a gain it’s for this fall it’s you know it’ll be open cutting the services in so there’ll be trenches that we’ll have to be digging and removing those services that are out there. Connecting them into the new watermain service there. Back filling those trenches with suitable material and letting it go for this year. And then next year we come in and actually remove all the pavement and the Class V that’s out there. The sub base and replace that with a better, with a new pavement section so. Councilwoman Ernst: Right, so please clarify for me then, does that mean that I would be able to get in and out of my driveway? Paul Oehme: Yeah, on a normal day you will be. I mean there will be definitely some inconveniences during the day so we expect the contractor and we’ll have a resident engineer out there inspector notifying property owners that the contractor’s going to be in this section of road this day and we intend to remove the road under these hours and if you have to get out of your driveway, you might have to move your car out of your driveway at this time or, and park it in a different location just because of the work that’s going on in front of your driveway but by the 14 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 end of the day you know it’s required that the contractor build that section of road back up. At least to a gravel section where you can get access back to your driveway so. Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. Councilman Litsey: Similar to what we did on Audubon and others. There’s going to be temporary disruption but. Paul Oehme: There will be and in the spot areas where we’re planning to put curb and gutter too there’s, you know that concrete has to cure out for about 3 days too so we’d ask the residents don’t drive on that, on the concrete for that amount of time. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Kawlewski, anything to add on this? Kevin Kawlewski: No. To define the disruption we’re looking at probably a 15 by 15 foot hole for service connection there. About 8 feet deep so we’ve got 8 properties so they’re going to be eight 15 foot by 15 foot holes cut in for replacing the service line so what you’re going to end up with is a bunch of patches and they will be done during normal working conditions so by 7:30 they may be in there working. By 4:30-5:00 they’ll be put back together. Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. Audience: How many did you say there are? Kevin Kawlewski: There is 8 properties. 7 or 8 properties down on that private drive off the east end of Red Cedar Point Drive. Each of those will require a new surface. Councilwoman Ernst: Thank you. Kevin Kawlewski: Yes. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Public hearing is still open. Anyone else from Red Cedar Point Drive that would like to comment. Or Red Cedar Point Road, excuse me. Jeff Shiva: My name is Jeff Shiva and we have the property at 3617 Red Cedar Point and I have the water shut off. The City actually has possession of our water meter because it’s a summer cabin and I’m concerned that when they put in the new watermain that they, I have to take a 12 foot long rubber hose and stick it down my water meter into my water line going underneath my driveway and then blow it out with compressed air so that I don’t get that pipe to freeze underneath so I get all the water out of it. When they hook up that watermain where they, will they close it at the street? I don’t want them to re-open that if they’re doing it this winter and re- fill that water line going up to the front of the cabin and then it freezes and now I have to call somebody and have that repaired. 15 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Paul Oehme: No, we’ll definitely work with you on that issue. We’ll just keep in contact and you know we’ll notify you when you’re out there. It will be again, there’ll be a resident engineer inspector on the project that will have to coordinate those details with. Jeff Shiva: Well again it’s a summer property. We’ve got it just about bundled up for the winter and I probably won’t be out there again until next year. Paul Oehme: Okay, we’ll just make a note of that then and make sure that, Kevin’s made note of that so we’ll make sure that that’s taken care of. Mayor Furlong: What I would suggest though is make sure you have your contact information since you’re not at the property and that they can get in touch with you and I would encourage you to stay on top of the project too and make sure that, as much as they’re going to intend to call you, you know please call them too and stay on top of it so we can try to avoid some problems. Jeff Shiva: Okay. Thank you. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Audience: What’s the name of the contractor who we’ll be calling? Kevin Kawlewski: Contractor’s GMS Asphalt. Mayor Furlong: We haven’t officially appointed them yet. Kevin Kawlewski: Okay. The low bidder is GMS Asphalt, correct. Mayor Furlong: And then if we go forward with the project they’ll be the one that we’ll consider awarding the project to. Kevin Kawlewski: Correct. Mayor Furlong: And they’ve been involved, Mr. Oehme if you can just talk real quickly about their prior work with the City. Paul Oehme: Yeah, actually it’s GM Contracting and they’re more of a utility contractor. They specialize in utility installations and they’ve finished a couple, several of the projects here in town for us. Most notably Well Number 14 watermain improvements this summer. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Todd Gerhardt: Kevin, can you talk about the magnet? I don’t think everybody understood what you’re going to have on that magnet too. Is that where you would contact people if you had an emergency or an issue? 16 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Kevin Kawlewski: Correct. There’ll be contact names for the project. It will be the name of the person who is on site daily. That will be the top phone number on it. My phone number will be on it. A back-up number at WSB as well as the City phone numbers and they’ll all be cell numbers so the first thing you do is look at that and just dial a number. Todd Gerhardt: So you could put that magnet on the refrigerator. Kevin Kawlewski: Those can go right on the refrigerator so there’s no scurrying around trying to find something if there’s an emergency. It’s right there. Easy to locate. Easy to read. Mayor Furlong: And will those be mailed out to the property owners? Kevin Kawlewski: Yes they will. Mayor Furlong: Also those that might not be home at the time, they will still get that information? Kevin Kawlewski: Yes they will. Yes. Mayor Furlong: Okay, what other communication will be available in terms of, will there be a call in number we’ve done in the past. What other communications have you used? Paul Oehme: Yeah we’ve used a hotline number that you referred to. We’re doing that on Erie Avenue. There’ll be the resident engineer will have door hangers too when projects are, work done in their area. On their street. We’ve also had email lists put out as well too if somebody wants to be on an email list, that’s something we utilized in the past as well. Mayor Furlong: Very good, thank you. Other Red Cedar Point Road property owners. Sir. Red Cedar Point Resident: I wish Todd were here but he’ll get this eventually I suppose. Mayor Furlong: If you could state your name and address sir. Red Cedar Point Resident: I’d like to place my name on the record as an owner who I’ve signed an written objection to this road assessment. Here I am. I’ve been here for 58 years. In the same place where all the water runs downhill. Okay. It appears to me that the roadway may be in need of some repair. In a few places it could be scheduled as needed. We’re not asking the owners to carry any long term debt. You’re in the business of providing us with the road and sewer. This little thought may have wrangled through your head from time to time but are we really going to get anything out of this? I mean is there any main need that you’re filling, or is it just something that you like to do in your spare time? The $70,000 that you isolated on this chart as being sewer related. The bottom two. I’m wondering, are they expensive to put in there? I’d like to ask Roger this. We would be working with what they call public domain if it’s just roads and that is if there is a death in the family and you have to sell the real estate or your bothered in some way and you have to file a sale, if it’s public domain the bill’s that unpaid on this thing would go with the land. Isn’t that right? 17 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Roger Knutson: The assessment is attached to the property, that’s correct. Red Cedar Point Resident: Would you speak up please. Roger Knutson: Special assessment attaches to the property. Red Cedar Point Resident: I can’t hear you. Mayor Furlong: That’s correct. The assessment does attach to the property. Red Cedar Point Resident: It goes with the property and does not need to be paid off at the time of a sale, right? Roger Knutson: The City does not require that it be paid off at the time of sale. Red Cedar Point Resident: Okay. Now if it had sewer on it, would it be any different? In that it’s a special, specific what they call a personal use. In that case it would have to be paid off, right? Roger Knutson: No, it would not have to be. Red Cedar Point Resident: Neither? Neither case, whether the road or the sewer is in it. Okay, the next following thought is, you are obliged to fix that sewer. It’s your responsibility as a city. You shouldn’t have to put that on any of our bill. What are we paying for your maintenance for? Step up and do your job and get that $70,000 out of there, it’s strictly maintenance. Mayor Furlong: Okay sir? Sir? Red Cedar Point Resident: At that point let’s get your guys out there. Mayor Furlong: Excuse me, I didn’t hear your name at the beginning. Could you state your name for the record? Red Cedar Point Resident: …I didn’t hear your name either…that dang microphone. Mayor Furlong: I will do that. I will do that. One of the questions and I think a point of clarification. No. Red Cedar Point Resident: You can have it… Mayor Furlong: Absolutely. Absolutely. I want to just clarify what is being assessed and what’s not because you raise a good question. Red Cedar Point Resident: What? 18 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Mayor Furlong: You raise a very good question with regard to whether the sewers are the responsibility of the City or the property owners and Mr. Oehme could you address that? Paul Oehme: Sure. Mayor Furlong: That the sewers are not part of the assessments. Red Cedar Point Resident: I don’t want it addressed. It’s too late for the music. We stopped dancing a long time ago. You’ve got this thing lined up so there’s nothing they can do. Believe it or not older people on that road, you talked all evening. Why don’t you give a guy a chance. Mayor Furlong: Please do. Red Cedar Point Resident: How many old guys do you think are on that road that are going to be dead by the time this thing’s paid off? I’m asking you. Are they going to have a better road to ride on for the next 15 or 20 years? No. That’s the same road and you flush the toilet down the same sewer. We’ve got nothing. Let it sink in a little while. Maybe you don’t have to spend a lot of money right now because things are rough. Now it’s your turn. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. I want to ask Mr. Oehme to answer your question about the sewers because the sewers are not being assessed. The sewer improvements are not being assessed. Red Cedar Point Resident: They’re not on the bill? Paul Oehme: No they’re not. Red Cedar Point Resident: $46,000… Paul Oehme: The proposed assessment, the assessment methodology practice that the City has is to assess 40% of the street project. That’s it. No storm sewer. No sanitary sewer. Red Cedar Point Resident: How many sewer funds… Councilman Litsey: Sir do you understand though that the, those other items that we just identified are being paid out of City funds and that they’re not being assessed back to you? Red Cedar Point Resident: Yeah, thank you. Councilman Litsey: Okay. Mayor Furlong: Okay, others on Red Cedar Point Road at this point. Thank you. And again if you could state your name and address at the beginning. Steve Keuseman: Yeah my name is Steve Keuseman and I live at 3622 Red Cedar Point Road and I also agree with Mr. Comer. I mean I think this is, this project is just a total over kill. I mean I guess I’ve been told by this gentleman here that the soil samples came back, that there’s 19 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 no base to the road and that’s why they have to dig it down 24 inches in that wall. The road’s been in since ’73. I’ve lived there for 47 years. 10 years prior to that it was gravel. If there’s no base to the road all the garbage trucks and that, that are going through there, they should have been a damn tow truck in there every week pulling them out. The road’s, I don’t even remember them being, do you even remember them being muddy when there was gravel there? I don’t even remember a muddy road. Red Cedar Point Resident: ’72, it was a nice gravel road. Steve Keuseman: Yeah. I mean there wasn’t even mud. I mean I think that’s just the thing. I mean the $3,909 is just for a road that’s just total overkill. Like where I live at 3622 Red Cedar Point Road, I live right here. I’m not gaining anything for my money. Nothing. I’ve got a fine road to get out to Red Cedar Point, or to Minnewashta Parkway. I’m not getting any curbing. I’m getting nothing for my money. If they would have buried the utilities, I would have been all for it. But we’re not even getting utilities buried. We’re not getting a damn thing for our money. Not a damn thing. And another thing, why are the townhouses getting off so easy? There’s 18 individual residences there. I don’t care how much frontage they’ve got. They got 18 driveways. 18 two car garages. They drive 18 cars. They’ve got 18 toilets. 18 faucets. They should be taxed or assessed the same as everybody else. Otherwise you take everybody else on an individual basis because I have a neighbor right across from me, she’s only got 40 feet of frontage. Then she should be, she should, I have about 140 feet of frontage. We should all be taxed on an, either an individual basis or we’re all taxed the same. Assessed the same. Okay, and then I got another point too. I think it’s you, I think you know Dave Bangasser, right? I think he also asked for, over here on South Cedar Drive, you to make the road wider so he’s got more room to park when he has parties. Is he going to pay more then? You’re going to make the road wider for him. Is he going to get assessed more? Kevin Kawlewski: That particular area there is a ribbon curb going in to protect the edge of the roadway. We are not making the actual pavement surface wider. Steve Keuseman: Okay. Well now I’ve got another thing too because I’ve got a survey for my property from 1984 and I just had one done this year because I want to do some remodeling. Now the road when it went in in ’73, my parents lived there before me. 5 feet of my road is in the, of my property is in the road. Am I going to get that back? Huh? I mean you’ve got like a foot and a half all along, all along my property and then it goes to 3 and then on the very west end of my property you’ve got 5 feet of my property where Red Cedar Point and then it V’s out to Hickory and South Cedar. There’s no need for the road to be that wide. It doesn’t, nobody takes that big of a swing out there. I mean if he’s going to get a wider, well I’d like to have my property back. I just, you know like I say, I just, I’m totally against it. I mean if you could just do an overlay or something on it and that’s fine but I just think, I’m not getting anything for my money here. It’s not going to raise the value of my house I can tell you that right now. So I’m totally, so if I need to sign anything or whatever I’m totally opposed to it. Mayor Furlong: Okay. And for point of clarification, if there is desire to object to the assessment Mr. Oehme they need to file that here before the public hearing closes? 20 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Paul Oehme: Exactly. Mayor Furlong: Okay. And Mr. Knutson what, if somebody wants to object to the assessment, what should they do? Roger Knutson: You should file a written objection before the close of the hearing stating their name, their property address and the basis of their objection. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Audience: And we file with who? Roger Knutson: You can file it with the Mayor. Prior to the close of the hearing. Councilwoman Ernst: So I have a question about that Roger. So once they file the rejection. Mayor Furlong: Objection. Councilwoman Ernst: Objection, I’m sorry. What happens with it after that? I mean is there a certain, are there a certain number of people that need to reject it before the project doesn’t go. Mayor Furlong: It’s objection. Roger Knutson: No. Any one individual can file an objection. It has to be filed initially with the City before the close of the hearing tonight. Then they have to bring an action in District Court. Start a civil action against the City in District Court. Audience: It has to be filed before the thing tonight? Tonight is the time you’re going to do the whole thing? Roger Knutson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: Before we close the public hearing this evening, if you want to object to the assessment you need to file a written objection, as the City Attorney just said with your name, address and the reason for the objection. Is that correct? Roger Knutson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. And Mr. Oehme with regard to the gentleman’s question on the width of the road and whether it’s on his property or in the public right-of-way, do you have a response to that at this time? Paul Oehme: Well in response to the need for the reconstruction, we kind of identified the reasons for replacement of the road in general in this area. The need for the reconstruction versus an overlay too, I mean we’re just not addressing the surface condition of the road. We’re also addressing the utility issues in this neighborhood as well too so once we go into utilities, it’s 21 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 more beneficial for us to get in there and redo the road at this time. I mean we did take soil borings in spot locations within the development area. The project area and there are places that we have borings that there are no granular material. There’s just asphalt so I mean the road does vary significantly from some, in terms of pavement strength so. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Paul Oehme: And then in terms of the right-of-way issue. You know based upon the drawings that we have, it appears to us that the road is within the city right-of-way so I’d like to, you know. Mayor Furlong: I think we need to clarify that and so Mr. Knutson, comment. Roger Knutson: Just as a comment, and I don’t know anything about this particular situation. There is a statute that says if we’ve been, if something’s been paved basically for 6 years and we’ve been maintaining it for 6 years and it’s been open to the public for 6 years, it’s now a street. Mayor Furlong: So I think what we need to do then is let’s clarify the location and work with the property owner on that and gather the facts and review the project scope and make sure we do it right. Paul Oehme: Right, exactly. Mayor Furlong: Okay, and check the facts behind that so we do it right. Councilman Litsey, question? Councilman Litsey: One of the things that was raised was some of the other utilities that we took a look at. There was an underground electricity and those things that my understanding like you stated before was the reason that wasn’t done is that was the will of the majority did not want to see that happen, is that correct? Paul Oehme: That’s the feedback that we received. Councilman Litsey: Yeah, so we’re trying to do that balancing between what the majority would like done so, and I know that was a concern of your’s and makes some sense to do that but if not everyone’s on board of a majority it’s pretty tough to do that. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thanks. Did you have a follow up question Councilwoman Ernst? Councilwoman Ernst: Yes. So I’m sorry I missed the first part of that conversation that occurred between you and Paul. So are you saying that potentially some of the road is being overlaid and some of it reconstructed? Paul Oehme: No. It’s all proposed to be reconstructed. 22 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Councilwoman Ernst: All of it’s being reconstructed. Is there an opportunity to do an overlay with part of it and reconstruct part of it? Depending on what the condition of the road is. Paul Oehme: Well we’d like to have it a consistent pavement strength out here because once we come in and say reconstruct one area and leave another area, not reconstruct, now we have variable pavement life cycles again and one road section may deteriorate more than another road section so we’d like to try to keep it as consistent as we can. With the amount of surface trenching that we have out here, the pavement condition the way it is, you know it’s our judgment that we replace the road at this time. Councilwoman Ernst: Well I’m curious what the pavement index that you laid out in the documentation, is that index related to the entire road or is it parts of the road that are, I forget what that index was? Mayor Furlong: Can we pull that schedule up? Paul Oehme: Sure. Mayor Furlong: Because I think what you’re describing Mr. Oehme is what could happen is what has happened. Paul Oehme: Yeah. And Kevin if you want to go through these again. Kevin Kawlewski: Certainly. If you look at the various conditions you’ll see an 11 on Cedar Point Road, or South Cedar Drive. You’ll see a 40. You’ll see a 38 and these are sections of road, 37. These are sections of road that are on the east end, past the main entrance road. What’s going to happen with construction traffic, and you’ll see the 71’s and 76’s on Red Cedar Point on the west end. What will happen is we’ll have construction traffic rumbling over that newer section so if, what will happen is, the roads at the east end will be replaced but now you’ve got beat up sections from the construction traffic. So to replace them now makes sense. It’s all done and the whole neighborhood is on the same pavement life cycle. Councilwoman Ernst: So in other words there may be part of the road that may not necessarily need it but long term it could be actually going into a worst condition than what you’re seeing today and have to go back and reconstruct. Kevin Kawlewski: Yes, that’s exactly right. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. The higher numbers also may be where we’ve gone in and patched a section. It just depends on where you take that boring. So if you kind of follow the blue lines, I think they’re indicating what the life expectancy of that portion of the road is. And you can see it’s at it’s high point and then it’s coming down right now. Mayor Furlong: Okay? Councilwoman Ernst: Okay, thank you. 23 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else along Red Cedar Point Road that would like to comment at the public hearing this evening. Steve Keuseman: Well I just have one other comment too. Mayor Furlong: If you could come back to the microphone sir. Steve Keuseman: Do I have to say my name again or? Mayor Furlong: It would help but if you prefer not to that’s fine. Steve Keuseman: Steve Keuseman at 3622 Red Cedar Point Road. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Steve Keuseman: Another thing I’d like to mention too is I mean your soil borings, I mean do you ever take into consideration you’re right next to a lake. I mean I can go out in my front yard anywhere and drive down 2 or 3 feet and hit water. I mean so. I mean I’m sure you took a lot of your soil samples are in probably the low sections, I mean so the water table is high you know. Paul Oehme: Right. Well I mean we took, I don’t know if you have the map there but we took random soil borings throughout the development. It was you know low areas, high areas, Hickory is on one of the higher elevated streets in the area. Red Cedar Point too coming into the development so we took a random sample and we didn’t you know base our soil boring locations on any specific reasoning. It’s just kind of a random sampling. Steve Keuseman: And another comment I’d like to make too, I know on South Cedar Drive part of the reason the road there is so bad too is I know one person in particular, and I’m not going to name names, gets a lot of water in his basement and runs his sump pump right across the road and I mean I walk my dogs there every day and I mean almost every day you think a lot of times when you wouldn’t be pumping water out of your basement, there’s just like a river running across the road and it’s being, coming from his sump pump so I mean not all of this is just that the road is bad or anything. It’s, and so it’s an added factor to the road reconstruction or whatever. Mayor Furlong: Is there anything that’s part of this project with regard to sump pumps? I know we’ve done that with other projects to try to extend the pavement life by you know helping to channel and manage the sump pump discharge. Paul Oehme: Yep. I mean in past practice that is one of the techniques that we have used is drain tile. Under this area, the South Cedar Road I’m not aware of that sump pump but we’ll definitely take a look at it and see if it makes sense to put some drain tile in down at the low point there and get it, so it doesn’t sheet on the road because that is a premature, does prematurely decrease the life expectancy of your road. 24 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Mayor Furlong: So that’s a good point and I think that’s something that again if the staff is aware of it because all of you live there all the time. You’re walking your dog. You’re seeing things, that’s good information that they can use to try to make sure if there are some fixes that can be made, this is the time to try to do it. So thank you. Anything else then this evening? Steve Keuseman: No, I don’t think so. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Anyone else on Red Cedar Point Road that would like to comment? How about on South Cedar Drive? The property owners along South Cedar Drive that would like to? Juniper? None on Juniper. Hickory Road? Gary Peterson: Again my name is Gary Peterson and my house is actually up on 3632 Hickory. The house was actually constructed in about 1914 or 15 so it’s very old and the utilities all are right under the road and I would like to know how deep you’re going to actually the dig the road there. If you dig down 24 inches you’ve wiped out everything that goes there. I mean all my utilities. My bathroom is in the garage because my house is a Sears house. Sears did not offer an option to have a bathroom in the house. Okay, so my bathroom is a garage. What you guys call a garage, it’s a bathroom. Paul Oehme: Yeah, I mean if the contractor. Gary Peterson: If you go down 24 inches you wipe me out completely. Paul Oehme: Right and that will be the responsibility of the contractor to identify those locations for those services and if the contractor does hit it, he is responsible to replace it in full so. You know I’m not worried about loss of service. There might be some interruption there but. Gary Peterson: Will they shut the service down the same as he’s talking about. Paul Oehme: Right. th Gary Peterson: And we’ll shut it down before the 30 of the month no problem. Paul Oehme: Sure, that would be great and then we can work with you… Gary Peterson: Electrical’s too in there. And the next question has to do with one I brought up with your meeting I don’t know 12 days, 14 days ago. Something like that. Was on the utility poles. The utility poles on my property and the property next to it are so weak that, and NSP says they cannot tighten the wires and the kids actually swing on the wires. And I mean they say that’s not a safety hazard, okay. I have very difficult time coming to agree that that’s not a safety hazard when kids will throw a jump rope over it and then grab the line and then they’ll swing on it. Paul Oehme: I did take your comment and I ran a, I did take some photos of those poles and sent them over to Xcel, our local representative. She unfortunately had not got back to me before this meeting but this week if I do not hear back from her I think I’m going to take it to, up one level. 25 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Gary Peterson: There’s 3 poles that are, you can see through them. 90% of them. Paul Oehme: And the one on Juniper too. Gary Peterson: That’s on my property also. Paul Oehme: That was on your property too, so that’s, those are the poles that I took pictures of. Sent them over to Xcel. They haven’t responded back yet so I’m still working on that issue with them and like I said we’ll take it up to the next level too if I don’t hear a response back from them within another week. Gary Peterson: Now my next question has to do with fire hydrants. I was looking at the plan. Are some of the fire hydrants being removed? Kevin Kawlewski: Yes. If I could just to clarify your previous question on your services under the road. In front of your house we are going 14 inches deep. Not 24. Okay. Gary Peterson: You’ll probably still hit it there. Kevin Kawlewski: Okay, well as long as we know about it we can address it. Gary Peterson: I mean there is a culvert down there. A plastic culvert. Kevin Kawlewski: Yes, the hydrants will be replaced in their current locations. Gary Peterson: And they’re not going to be, in the same locations. Kevin Kawlewski: In the same locations, yes. Gary Peterson: Okay. Next question had to do with you said that the services are going to be placed with plastic pipe. Now we went to all the cost to put in copper pipe all the way up to the meter and those are now going to be changed to plastic? Kevin Kawlewski: No, the main line is going to be plastic. The services will still be copper so if you have an intact copper service, what we will try to do is just reconnect it directly to the main line. Paul Oehme: With copper service. Kevin Kawlewski: With copper. Gary Peterson: Thanks. 26 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else along Hickory would like to provide comment? Red Cedar Curve. Okay. I think I hit all the streets in the neighborhood. Is there any street that I missed? Audience: Juniper. Audience: No, he said Juniper. Audience: Oh, sorry. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Okay, and so if I’ve gone through all the streets then certainly if anybody has not provided public comment at this time, other interested party that would like to provide public comment before we close the public hearing I would invite you to come up at this time. Gary Peterson: I’d like one more comment. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Peterson, good evening. Gary Peterson: When you originally did this assessment, my back end of my lot was not assessed as a separate operation. You’ve now assessed my back lot as a separate operation so I get two assessments out of this thing. It’s not a buildable lot. In fact it’s been refused for building by the City and you go beyond that it, I refuse to give you the back end of the lot for your pond and then all of a sudden it popped up as a new assessment for whatever, $3,900 whatever dollars there. Mayor Furlong: Can you point on the map there the, are these separate lots? Are these two individual lots? Gary Peterson: …there’s 3610. Mayor Furlong: Just point to where they are for us. Gary Peterson: It’s this property down here. My property comes from here all the way back to this back road and this one is now assessed separate. Mayor Furlong: Are those separate PID’s? Paul Oehme: Yes. Mayor Furlong: Separate individual properties. Kate Aanenson: It is a lot of record and as the City Attorney will state, you have to give. Gary Peterson: It’s been a lot of record for 2 years. 27 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Kate Aanenson: Right. Right. Gary Peterson: You made it a lot of record 2 years ago. Kate Aanenson: Anyways, it’s a lot of record. Whether or not it, you’d have to apply, because there’s nothing on it, it would need some relief. I don’t know what the square footage of the lot is. Mayor Furlong: Okay, I guess the question is, is it a buildable lot or no? Kate Aanenson: Well you’d have to look at what’s reasonable to fit on that size lot so. They have a right to proceed to try to get something to build on there that’d be reasonable. I’m not sure how big the lot is. Paul Oehme: I researched this with the planning department a little bit as well too. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Paul Oehme: There’s no wetland impacts on this, or wetland on the buildable section of the property so it is a lot of record and he has full rights to develop it if he so chooses. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Gary Peterson: You actually sent me a letter a couple years ago, there’s no place on my land that is suitable for building when I asked for a building permit for a shed. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Mr. Knutson, comments on that. If it’s a buildable lot. Is this something that we can take care of with a motion? If it’s a buildable lot, if the council wanted to move forward with the assessment or if it’s not buildable? Roger Knutson: If you wanted to adopt it and we, if we determined, yes. I think you can do that. if the staff determines it’s not buildable then it should not obviously be assessed. And if you want to get to the point of adopting the assessment roll subject to that one resolution of that one issue by the staff, I think that’d be fine. Mayor Furlong: And I think the staff and Mr. Peterson can work together to determine whether or not it’s buildable but if it’s not going to be buildable now, it won’t be buildable in the future. Gary Peterson: The actual culvert that you discussed actually dumps water onto the property and I dug a trench across the property to dispose of that water across the back of that property. That trench is not on the easement. It’s actually on my property. Paul Oehme: Yeah there’s an easement in the back of the property on the northeast side. Yeah, right. I’ll put it on the laptop. Gary Peterson: It’s like 15 feet up the hill. 28 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Paul Oehme: Yeah it’s right, on this drawing it’s right about here so, and then all the water kind of drains through this easement in the back property here. Mayor Furlong: Is there a street address or PID number for that parcel? Do we know exactly what that is? Gary Peterson: They assigned one last year. It’s 3710. Red Cedar Point Road. Mayor Furlong: Is the street address? Gary Peterson: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: Is that? Paul Oehme: Yep. Gary Peterson: It has no water, there’s no water attached to it. There’s no sewer attached to it. It’s never had that, those utilities installed there. Councilman Litsey: So if we adopt this assessment roll and we determine that it’s not buildable, how does that money get reallocated then? Would the City pick up that difference or? Roger Knutson: Yes. Councilman Litsey: Because we couldn’t go back. Roger Knutson: No. Mayor Furlong: And it’s to that extent I think it’s reasonable to do that because it’s a question of whether it’s a buildable lot or not. We’re not going to make that determination here tonight. I think the logical thing for us to do is if we decide to go forward with the project and adopt the assessment roll to recognize that only for 3710, if that is a buildable lot then it will be assessed and if it’s determined not to be a buildable lot then it would not be assessed. So that determination. Gary Peterson: The property’s actually used by pretty near all the people on the point. They park cars on them when they have graduation parties or weddings and all the rest of it. Councilman Litsey: Little revenue source there maybe. Gary Peterson: Huh? Councilman Litsey: I’m just kidding. A little revenue source. 29 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Gary Peterson: Well there’s a couple boats there on the back end of the thing also and somebody just recommended that I charge everybody $500 a year. Councilman Litsey: There yeah, see. Gary Peterson: …but kind of hard to implement. Councilman Litsey: Little bit yeah. Just a little bit. Gary Peterson: By the way my son also started making signs that he was going to assess people to go park down there. Councilman Litsey: He might have better luck. Mayor Furlong: An entrepreneur in the making. Anyone else that would like to address the council on this matter before the public hearing is closed? And again I will remind that anybody, please come up. Jeff Shiva: I just have one for, not really so much as address as it is a comment. When you are working on the private drive portion here, my lot is this one. 3617 and our’s is an 80 foot lot with an 80 foot wide driveway and like I said, we only use it as a summer property. So that all the residents from the end of the point, and they have in the past whenever there’s been issues with their driveways, can park there. You can fit 10-12 cars if you plan them right. And I’ve got my boat in there stored for the winter but it’s sideways and up against the back drop of the driveway so you can still fit 10 cars or so in there so this fall while you’re working on your water project they can certainly welcome to use that. Mayor Furlong: Very good, thank you. Jeff Shiva: Because I’m not using it. Why not let them. Mayor Furlong: Well that’s very nice of you, thank you. A lot of parking fees going to be charged here. Ma’am please come back. Yes. If you could come up to the microphone so people at home can hear you. Susan Proshek: Very quick question. Proshek, 3613 Red Cedar Point. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Susan Proshek: Somebody on the private drives thought, was understanding that there would be times when we’d all be parking at Minnewashta Parkway and shut out of the whole area. It doesn’t sound like that’s going to be the case. Paul Oehme: It’s going to be intermediate disruptions. It’s not going to be for days on end. 30 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Susan Proshek: Okay. There’ll be some days when you’ve got to leave your car out on the Parkway. Paul Oehme: Or Red Cedar Point or some other place to park closer to your property, and we’ll try to accommodate those needs. Susan Proshek: Yeah, keep some part of access open. Paul Oehme: Yeah, exactly. Susan Proshek: Yeah I figured that you would. And are we ever going to decide whether it’s called Red Cedar Point Road or Red Cedar Point Drive? Mayor Furlong: Sounds like another public hearing. Audience: Or Hickory Road or Hickory Lane depending on which builder… Susan Proshek: It doesn’t really matter. Thank you. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. As long as the mail gets delivered I guess. Audience: I’ve got one question. Somebody had said they’re going to actually put the mailboxes way down by the Roundhouse Road. Is that really true? Will they move the mailboxes? By the round house. Kevin Kawlewski: The mailbox locations will be coordinated through the post office. Typically they determine where the mailboxes go so that’s simply a matter of coordinating and then we’ll notify residents where they’re going to be. Mayor Furlong: Anyone else who wanted to speak? Ma’am. Yep, please come forward. Dorothy Downing: I’d like to, Dorothy Downing from 7200 Juniper and I was just wondering how long our mailboxes will be out there? Kevin Kawlewski: I’m anticipating that the mailboxes won’t be moved this fall because it’s going to be minor street disruption. It will most likely be next spring when we start the reconstruction so probably beginning of May til beginning of July. Audience: Think they’ll be done in July? Kevin Kawlewski: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: Barring weather. You put cross fingers on the Minutes but I did notice that. Let the Minutes reflect. Anyone else that would like to address the council this evening as part of the public hearing, and again if you wanted to file an objection you need to file a written objection before we close the public hearing. So if nobody else wants to speak tonight then I’m 31 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 going to ask for a motion to close the public hearing. Anyone else? If not, is there a motion by a member of council to close the public hearing. Councilwoman Ernst: So moved. Mayor Furlong: Is there a second? Councilman Litsey: Second. Mayor Furlong: Any discussion on that motion? Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman Litsey seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The public hearing was closed. Mayor Furlong: Let’s bring it back to council then and any follow up questions or, of staff at this point before we get into comments or discussion. Councilman McDonald: I have a couple questions for Mr. Oehme. I’m curious about a couple of things. You held a number of public meetings out there. What’s the broad sentiment because I remember when this first came to us there was a lot of opposition at that time too. Is there still a lot of opposition in this project or have we worked through most of the problems that for the most part, the vast majority of people are okay? We’re you know they’re accepting of doing the project or where exactly is this? Paul Oehme: Well, for this project we’re, the project does impact 84 properties so, and tonight we’ve heard from a half a dozen people. At the last neighborhood meeting that we had in late September we had 8 property owners attend that meeting so just based upon the feedback that we’ve had at those meetings and basically the feedback that we get on a daily basis from property owners, it’s my understanding that, I think that most of the property owners would support the project. The need for the project I guess. I think the issue again it always comes down to the assessment amounts and how to finance the project so. Councilman McDonald: Okay. The other question I got is about the watermains because we’ve heard a lot of questions about that. Seems to be a big thing of disruption. If, well are we having problems out there with the watermains as far as breakage and leakage and everything? Paul Oehme: Yep, we’ve documented over a dozen watermain breaks in the recent past here and there actually, I think it was last week or the week before we had another one on Red Cedar Point. Pretty close to Hickory Lane so it is old cast iron pipe and we know that the water table is high in this area and we do have, definitely have problems with the cast iron pipe in the hot soil areas of town here where the water table is high so. I don’t think that issue’s going to go away any time soon unless we address replacement of that watermain. Councilman McDonald: Okay, that kind of leads to my next question there. If we did nothing on the watermains, if that’s say a big cost element to take out and also a big disruption factor 32 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 because at that point you’re not digging trenches or anything, and we go and we put these roads in, what kind of problems are we looking at, at that point? Have we really even accomplished anything besides making a nice road for a while? Paul Oehme: Yeah, I think you know we’re, if we just go in and overlay the road, I mean we’re still going to have that underlying watermain problem issue and the watermain will break again in the future if nothing’s done with it. You know when we have watermain breaks they’re not typically during the summer months. They’re during the winter months. It causes disruption to the property owners. It definitely reduces the longevity of the street section as well. The pavement life so it’s, it kind of, those watermain breaks compound the issue in terms of the life expectancy of the road and how long we can expect to need to redo a street. Councilman McDonald: Okay, and if we again do nothing and we just allow the watermains to break, what does it typically cost the City to repair a watermain break? Paul Oehme: Yeah right now we do have to bid out most of our watermain breaks to contractors so we have several contractors that we get prices from for those types of breaks and they vary depending upon how much utilities are in the way or how deep the watermain is. What type of break it is but in general it’s right around the $5,000 mark so, and that doesn’t include replacing of the pavement section. We typically try to do those in-house as much as we can so it’s probably another $500-$600 bucks to replace a patch. Councilman McDonald: So if we went out there and redid the roads and did everything and got the road back to good shape, probably in your opinion, within let’s say the next 6 months after we do it we’re going to be out there at least a couple of times tearing up the road again repairing a watermain break. Paul Oehme: Yeah. I mean I don’t have a crystal ball but just based upon past history. What we know about the watermain in this area. The condition of the watermain that is in when we dig up the watermain, we know it’s pitting. We know it’s, it has problems so yeah, in the future you know I would anticipate more watermain breaks if nothing is done. Councilman McDonald: Okay and then there was an issue that was brought up about this really isn’t adding any value to the properties there. If you replace the watermains, replace the road, bring everything up to speed, I know you’re not an expert and it’s difficult to answer the question but, and it is an intangible but in your experience in other areas where we’ve done things, have the property owners seen at least maybe the property sells better because at this point you do have you know good roads and reliable water and those types of things into the areas? Paul Oehme: Yep. In past projects we have had a consultation report completed where, to kind of justifies the costs associated with improvements or the benefitting costs associated with the project as it relates to the evaluation of the household and each one of those reports tend to indicate that there is a definite value for the property for these types of projects. Councilman McDonald: Okay. I have no further questions. Thanks. 33 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions for staff at this point? Mr. Oehme, the amount of the assessment at, it’s right around 39. Just over $3,900. The Erie Street project that we’re completing this summer was also a utility replacement. It was also street reconstruction. Those assessments came in closer to $5,700. Why the difference? Why is the cost here less than $4,000 where that was about $5,700? Paul Oehme: Under the Erie Avenue project, that’s a typical roadway standard street that we see in the city. 31 foot wide curb and gutter type of a pavement section. Under this project, for example Hickory Lane, I think that’s 11 or 12 feet wide so it’s a lot narrower roadway out here. There’s less material or less reconstruction, square footage of road that we have to replace out here so that definitely drives down the cost of the project when the roads are a lot narrower in this development versus say the Erie Avenue project. Mayor Furlong: So it’s the attributes of the neighborhood itself and then the streets in that neighborhood? Paul Oehme: Exactly. Mayor Furlong: And stuff that are reducing the cost. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? If not, thoughts or discussion from members of the council regarding the project. Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: I’ll give my thoughts and everything. I mean I’ve been listening to this for quite some time and I’ve just been kind of waiting to see how things play out. We’ve had a number of plans that we’ve gone through and they’ve changed based upon input from the neighborhood. I do understand that this is you know a special neighborhood but then all residents around the city believe that their neighborhoods are special. The problem here, I would have been perfectly willing to vote to not do anything but that would have been based upon again the majority of the people coming forward and saying that the disruption and what we would be doing to the area just isn’t worth it and I just haven’t seen that. What I have seen is that you know we’ve worked with residents. We’ve made changes to the plan. We’ve tried to accommodate what everybody wants and now what it comes down to is the biggest problem is this is on a peninsula and there’s only one way in so it’s not going to be easy no matter what you do and there does seem to be some recognition of that upon the residents and you know we are trying to work with everybody and make this as easy as possible but we all know it’s not going to be that easy for a short period of time but that’s, to me that’s the price of progress. I mean you know if you want a road that’s safe and if you want utilities that are going to work we have to do this. And again because the majority of people didn’t come forward I’m in favor of doing this. We need to get it done. I think we worked out a plan with everybody that, you know while it’s not acceptable to everyone, I think for the majority of people it provides a benefit. One of the comments was about how it is that we have to look at public good. Well the streets are public good and unfortunately the way things are set up, you know the benefitting residents pay for a portion of those street repairs. That’s just the way it is. Whether it’s your neighborhood or anyone else’s, that’s still the way that we assess around the city. I know that everyone you know doesn’t want to pay those amounts. I understand that. It is difficult times but we can’t just stop doing things because to do that when things get better you’re going to lose the money then 34 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 anyway because it will cost that much more. Plus what do you want if one of these watermains breaks and all of a sudden now we flood out somebody’s house? How much damage did you cause to that individual? So to me the good outweighs the bad and I’d be in favor of it and you know I think the city, well I think the staff are really trying to work with the neighborhood. They’re listening to people. For accommodating what everybody has done as far as input and such so I’m fine with voting for the project the way it was presented tonight. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Councilwoman Ernst, thoughts. Councilwoman Ernst: It’s too bad some of the residents didn’t stick around because you know even though there were a few that were here tonight, I really appreciate the fact that those that did come tonight came and expressed, really it gives me an appreciation for really how you feel about the project and it takes time out of your evening and I am sure you don’t really want to spend you evenings coming down here to city hall but I do appreciate the fact that you did that. And you know no one likes to pay the assessment cost. Assessments are not always a fun thing to do but after hearing everything about the road condition, and really I don’t think that the residents would want you know 5 years from now have to rebuild the road and so I, you know we need to maintain and improve our roads and so I would be in support of this project as well. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman Litsey. Councilman Litsey: Yeah I didn’t have a lot more to add to that. I too support moving ahead with the project. Doing it piecemeal doesn’t make sense. I think we need to stay with our pavement management plan and be consistent with that and do it right if we’re going to do it. If we make the decision to move ahead. It is tough. I know my first year on the council was an assessment so I know what it’s like because I’m still paying that but we do need to be consistent within the city and stick to a plan and base it on the best information that we can listen to residents. Again I just am truly amazed at how well staff, obviously you can’t make everybody happy all the time but the good work they’ve done again in listening to the concerns and this project was held up a little bit because we were you know trying to listen to those concerns and make accommodations and we will continue to do that as we always do through projects, to listen to people. It doesn’t just stop here. It continues throughout the project so yeah I’m very much at this point in favor of moving ahead with it and thank everybody involved, including the residents and people that live there for giving input. It is helpful as already has been said so. Mayor Furlong: Very good, thank you. Overall I think this is a project that has, as was just mentioned, has been delayed. This project was originally scheduled to be completed this summer. Now we’re talking about this in October in a large part because the time was taken to listen to the ideas. When we had this first public hearing back earlier this year during the winter months there were a lot of ideas raised and over the course of the year, the scope of the project has been changed. We heard tonight there was hope, I’ll give it a hope to try to put a storm water pond in this neighborhood to try to improve some of the storm water that runs off into the lake. Everybody’s interested in keeping the lake clean. Clearly the property owners are as are the city and the staff and the council. There wasn’t a way to efficiently and effectively do that and that took some time but we came to the conclusion clearly that was also brought up by the residents back at that first meeting that there just wasn’t the opportunity to do that. We’re doing 35 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 some improvements over in Hickory Road or Hickory Lane or whatever the title that people want to use. We’ve had some ponding taking place there. Some storm water ponding on the road itself. Probably has caused some of the problems for the pavement down there and so we’re taking advantage of this project to improve that with storm water improvements throughout the area, at least as much as we can do. I think there was, we’ve got a 2 pound box and we can’t put 3 pounds of stuff in it. We can do what we can and I appreciate the time and effort that all the residents and property owners have put in. This has been a long project but because of the unique situations that exist in this neighborhood it was worth taking the time to do that and I think by listening to ideas and suggestions that came up, we heard some more this evening with regard to some sump pump overflow. That’s what staff needs to hear so that they can take a look at it and try to make sure that if there’s a way to improve that situation, we can do it now so that we don’t end up causing the road surface to deteriorate faster than we’d expect so I think it does make sense to move forward with this. I think that while it may not be perfect in everyone’s mind, I think overall it is a project that needs to be done. Both from a utility standpoint as well as from the street surface. I think the cost for doing the project continues to be positive with regard to the bids that are coming in that we’re receiving and as we’ve been receiving over the last couple years. There are still contractors that are very competitive out there. We’re seeing it in the prices. Those prices are shared not only by the city taxpayers for our portion but for the residents as well and by having the policy that we do have, the practice that we have of assessing a percentage of the cost of the project rather than a fixed dollar amount, then everybody shares in that as well so I think it does make sense to move forward. This project will extend over a period of months this fall and then again next spring. I’m going to say thank you and extend our appreciation to the residents that are going to be affected by that interruption over the course of the construction period. We do appreciate that. We know that that is an inconvenience and know we appreciate your patience. I think in the end it will be a project that will help everybody long term and that’s what we’re looking to do. I would suggest that as we move to making a motion here, whoever would like to make that motion that we do separately identify property 3710 Red Cedar Point Road which is the property that we have some question tonight on as to whether or not that was a buildable property. To leave it to the staff to determine if it is buildable. If it is buildable, it should be included in the assessment. If it is not buildable, and that’s documented in permanent records then it would be my recommendation there but I’ll leave that to the maker of the motion or the council to decide. Any other thoughts or comments on this? If not would somebody like to make a motion? Councilman McDonald? Councilman McDonald: Sure, I’ll do it. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman McDonald: Okay I make a motion that the City Council accepts the bids and awards the contract for the Red Cedar Point Road utility reconstruction project 10-01B to GM Contracting Incorporated in the amount of $1,013,499.38. Also that the City Council adopts the assessment roll for the Red Cedar Point street and utility reconstruction project 10-01B. Also I would add that the City Council adopt a resolution that staff, working with the owner and also with the record at the address of 3710 Red Cedar Point Road, that we determine whether or not it is a buildable lot. If it is determined to be a buildable lot it would be included within the 36 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 assessment. If it is not determined to be a buildable lot it would be excluded and then that the City would pick up that share of the assessment. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second? Councilwoman Ernst: Second. Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none we’ll proceed with the vote then. Resolution #2010-86: Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that the City Council adopts the assessment roll for the Red Cedar Point Street and Utility Reconstruction Project 10-01B with the condition that staff work with the owner of 3710 Red Cedar Point Road to determine whether or not it is a buildable lot. If it is determined to be a buildable lot it would be included within the assessment. If it is determined not to be a buildable lot it would be excluded from the assessment roll and the City would pick up that share of the assessment. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. Resolution #2010-87: Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that the City Council awards the contract for the Red Cedar Point Road Utility Reconstruction Project 10-01B to GM Contracting Inc in the amount of $1,013,499.8. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. Mayor Furlong: Thank you everyone. Appreciate your input and thoughts. Yeah let’s, given the a look at the hour let’s, can we take a quick, we’ll take a quick recess subject to the call of the chair. No more than 5 minutes. So we’re in recess. PUBLIC HEARING: HAPPY GARDENS II, 2443 WEST HIGHWAY 7, REQUEST FOR AN ON-SALE BEER AND WINE LICENSE, MEI CHANG YU. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, City Council members. Happy Garden II is requesting an on-sale beer and wine license. Background check on Happy Gardens II came back negative. There was no findings of the owner in violation of city ordinances or the liquor laws so with this staff would ask to open up the public hearing. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for staff? Councilman McDonald: Do they currently have a beer and wine license? Todd Gerhardt: No they do not. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Mayor Furlong: Any other questions for staff? If not let me open up the public hearing and invite all interested parties to come forward and address the council on this item. Anyone this 37 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 evening? If not, without objection we’ll close the public hearing and bring it back to council. Any thoughts or discussions. Fairly straight forward. Like to see business looking to modify and improve their offers so would somebody like to make a motion. Councilwoman Ernst. Councilwoman Ernst: I make a motion that we approve the request for an on-sale beer and wine license for Happy Garden Excelsior Incorporated dba Happy Gardens II at 2443 Highway 7 West contingent upon receipt of liquor liability insurance and license fee of $410. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second? Councilman Litsey: Second. Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any discussion? Hearing none we’ll proceed with the vote. Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman Litsey seconded that the City Council approve the request for an on-sale beer and wine license for Happy Garden Excelsior Incorporated dba Happy Gardens II at 2443 Highway 7 West contingent upon receipt of liquor liability insurance and license fee of $410. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. PUBLIC HEARING: APPLE MINNESOTA, LLC: REQUEST FOR AN ON-SALE INTOXICATING LIQUOR LICENSE, APPLEBEE’S NEIGHBORHOOD BAR & TH GRILL, 590 WEST 79 STREET. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, City Council members. Apple Minnesota LLC is acquiring Applebee’s th Neighborhood Bar and Grill with the address of 590 West 79 Street. Staff has completed a background check and no negative findings were found on the Apple Minnesota LLC partnership and managers so staff is requesting the City Council open up the public hearing for public comment. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for staff? Hearing none we’ll open up the public hearing and invite all interested parties to come forward and address the council on this matter. If you’d like to come forward. Joel Signee: I just actually have a question. I’m not even… Mayor Furlong: That’s okay. If you’d like to speak if you could come up to the microphone, that way the people at home can hear you. Okay, just state your name and address. Joel Signee: My name is Joel Signee and I live over in Eden Prairie so. Mayor Furlong: Okay, good evening. 38 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Joel Signee: My only question is at what point is any liquor license become considered intoxicating liquor. At what point does that divide come. That seems somewhat redundant to me. Mayor Furlong: It might be very redundant. Joel Signee: Yeah. Todd Gerhardt: I’ll let Roger give this. Joel Signee: Is there like a dictionary around here? Roger Knutson: No, there’s a statute. Minnesota Statute 348 defines intoxicating liquor. There used to be intoxicating liquor and non-intoxicating malt beverages. They got rid of non- intoxicating malt beverages. Now they just have malt beverages so, intoxicating liquor is basically everything except wine and beer. Joel Signee: Alright. Roger Knutson: Not that wine and beer are not intoxicating. Joel Signee: There seems like there should be a much better word for intoxicating. Roger Knutson: Send it to your legislature. Send a suggestion. Todd Gerhardt: Well the wine and beer used to be a 3.2 which supposedly was not supposed to get you intoxicated. Councilman Litsey: Well I can tell you a few stories about what it is. Roger Knutson: In their wisdom a few years ago, I lose track of time, the legislature, the term used to be non-intoxicating malt beverages. There was an outcry about that term, terminology so that was removed and put in beer and wine basically. 3.2 beer and wine and strong beer. Mayor Furlong: So the understanding for the Happy Garden, the liquor license that we just approved, that was for beer and wine. Todd Gerhardt: Only. Mayor Furlong: Which would be only beer and wine. This would be beer, wine and other liquor as well. Thank you. Anyone else that would like to speak at the public hearing? We’re taking as long as we can Mr. Peterson. If there’s no one else that would like to speak at the public hearing, without objection we’ll close it and bring it back to council for discussion. Any thoughts or discussion on this item? Councilman Litsey: Straight forward again. 39 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Mayor Furlong: If not, if somebody would like to make a motion. Councilman Litsey. Councilman Litsey: Sure. Make a motion approve the request for an on-sale intoxicating liquor th license for Apple Minnesota LLC, Applebee’s Neighborhood Bar and Grill at 590 West 79 Street. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second? Councilman McDonald: I’ll second. Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any discussion on that motion? Hearing none, proceed with the vote. Councilman Litsey moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the City Council approve the request for an on-sale intoxicating liquor license for Apple Minnesota LLC, Applebee’s th Neighborhood Bar and Grill at 590 West 79 Street. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. Mayor Furlong: We could take another recess or move onto our next item. Let’s just go. Audience: Can I ask, is a caterer have intoxicating liquor or not? If you have a catering. Mayor Furlong: We’re getting all sorts of questions. Todd Gerhardt: Free legal advice. Roger Knutson: It depends upon what’s in the keg but assuming it’s beer, beer would not be called intoxicating liquor, which is not to say it isn’t intoxicating liquor. It’s not labeled intoxicating liquor. It’s labeled beer. Now there’s two types of beer. Strong beer and 3.2 beer. Councilwoman Ernst: Oh my gosh. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Roger Knutson: You’re welcome mayor. M.A. GEDNEY COMPANY EXPANSION: REQUEST FOR SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A 39,000 SQUARE FOOT WAREHOUSE ADDITION, 2100 STOUGHTON AVENUE. Kate Aanenson: Thank you. Again this is a request for Gedney Pickles for an expansion. Shown on the site plan is the location. This is the very southern portion of the city. Bordering Chaska. If you can see on the yellow here where this is located. Again the most southerly part of the city. This property is actually bordered by, there’s a little narrow piece of Chaska here. I’ll show this in a little bit more detail and then most recently we did the Minnesota Valley Electric substation was built next to that most recently down in this area. And then this is the 40 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 subject site right here. I just want to talk a little bit about some long term planning in this area. In working with Chaska we’ve looked at Highway 10 coming down and providing access to all this property here in front. That driveway could service, actually coming back to behind the property here where we just approved kind of the storage units back in that area. There is potential development property down in there so how we provide access. Again working with Chaska extending 10 into that area so not all access would have to be off of Stoughton. There is also when Chaska upgraded Audubon Road there is access to the Gedney property on this site so there is potential development so what I wanted to point out with this application, when I showed the site plan, there is potential development adjacent to now Flying Cloud. Was County Road 61 and then in addition we work with Chaska for the, that’s kind of the window, the front part of that so we have been in communication. Gedney Pickles has kind of laid out an ultimate development plan but at this time not going forward with that. Just doing the expansion to the building itself so it is bordered on all sides, really except for the Minnesota Valley Electric, by the city of Chaska. So again the site plan request is for 39,000 square feet and the Planning st Commission did hold a public hearing on September 21. They did vote 5 to 0 to approve the application. The expansion as proposed would be immediately to the east of the property. The last expansion that was done on this site, shown here in pink, was in 1979 and I’ll just give you a little bit of a pictorial kind of the area itself. This is the original Gedney. I’ll go down and show you right here the first expansion going back into, well our records show the 60’s. This expansion here. And then this shows a little bit closer up again the city limits. When this expansion did occur the City of Chaska did provide sewer and they are providing sewer into the future with this addition. So this is currently again how it sits on the site. Again kind of surrounding the Chaska area. There is additional access off of this Crystal Lane. Again we do always look at the big picture. Seeing how the pieces all fit together. Providing additional access to the north for development along this. Again they’ve got excellent frontage on a collector street and then again providing access to that property behind the storage units will be sometime when we’re down there in the future with sewer that that can be developed into the future. So the expansion again would be taking place immediately in this area right here. Currently this is how the site looks. This would be the area view from Stoughton. Again this area is adjacent to a high tension power line and I’ll show that in a little more detail. The Planning Commission had a couple questions on that. This is the building elevation itself. It would match the existing building which is a cut face block. Painted white and I’ll show you that in a little bit more detail. This would be the front looking across from County Road, which is now 61. Kind of that cut face rough block masonry unit which would be painted white. And then this is again the side of the building where there is outdoor storage. One of the requirements again would be the additional landscaping on the site. As I mentioned before we have the concrete rock face. Additional landscaping. The 39,000 square feet 26 feet high so the big issue then that we are working with, with this site plan itself is just the storm water runoff and then working through with the City of Chaska. They would be applying for their connection fees through the City of Chaska. And again this is the front of the building which I showed you kind of zeroed in on that. Again this is the area where the expansion would occur so there could be potential additional development in front and they’ve looked at some other uses. This is guided office industrial so it is consistent with the existing zoning. It could have gone through an administrative approval but it’s larger than the percentage allowed by the City Code to do administrative approval. One of the issues that the Planning Commission had, you can see the brown stripes that are on the site. There is a high tension power line that currently runs over the 41 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 building. The new addition is not underneath the building. Excuse me, the easement is just to the east of that easement so they’re outside of that. Even so they would work through any permitting that they would need to get the additional construction. So then lastly because this site was built a number of years ago, 30-40 years ago, there wasn’t a lot of storm water runoff so what we’re trying to…with this plan and trying to be efficient in how we’re working that, is they’re actually doing on site storm water kind of draining all that property which I showed you between 61 or old 212 and this site to accommodate the storm water runoff on site and channeling. Chaska had some concerns but between working between now and the issue of the building permits, they’re getting ready to go. We’re trying to expedite that here the next week or two. Get that in place. The site plan agreement. Get the sewer assessment through Chaska that we would accommodate then, as would Chaska, looking at the numbers accommodating just the storm water kind of trenching on site to accommodate, they’ve got plenty of land to make that happen. So with that the Planning Commission did recommend approval so we are recommending the City Council that they approve the square foot addition and as stated in the staff report and adoption of Findings of Fact and I’d be happy to answer any questions that you have. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for staff? Were there any components that didn’t meet requirements? I noticed there was an issue about parking spaces but I’m sure there’s. Kate Aanenson: There’s plenty of parking on site, correct. Mayor Furlong: Yeah, okay. So all material matters this meets the ordinance? Kate Aanenson: Correct. And I think the only concern that the Planning Commission had a little issue with, there was just some ambiguity in the wording of that. Chaska needed, wanted to be also, because they’re reviewing the plans. Because they are providing the sewer, that everything was in conformance and the big issue there was the storm water but we’ve worked through that issue. Mayor Furlong: And I noticed there is one of the recommended conditions. Kate Aanenson: Is modified. Mayor Furlong: Is specific to the City of Chaska with regard to the Metropolitan Council SAC fees. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Is that property to the north, is that. Kate Aanenson: This piece? Mayor Furlong: Is that within the boundaries of the city of Chanhassen? 42 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Kate Aanenson: This property to the north is actually the abandoned right-of-way for the railroad tracks and that is actually under the city of Chaska has jurisdiction over that property. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Very good. Any other questions for staff at this time? If not, Mr. Johnson is here representing the applicant. Anything you’d like to address to the council this evening Mr. Johnson? Mr. Johnson: Not unless there’s some questions. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any questions for the applicant? Okay. Very good. Let us go ahead then for the council and bring it back to the council for any thoughts or comments. Seems fairly straight forward. It’s nice to see a business looking to expand within town and that’s always something that we’re looking to do and accommodate and it sounds like they’ve been very accommodating trying to upgrade some of the features such as storm water management that weren’t there at the time that the building was. Kate Aanenson: Right and that’s a delicate kind of thing because the property will be expanded in the future so, and it’s going to, it’s cosmetically they’ll be screened in the future so we’re trying to allow them to accommodate the expansion needs and then as they continue to grow on that property, address that at a future date. Mayor Furlong: And I think that’s the issue, especially with the easement. We don’t want that to be, get in the way of allowing a business to continue to expand. I mean we look for other opportunities in the future. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: It would not be something that I think we expect to be a permanent but more a temporary. Any other thoughts or comments? Councilman McDonald: I see that the pickle business is doing well. Mayor Furlong: And with that comment Mr. McDonald, would you like to make the motion? Councilman McDonald: Sure I’ll make, I’ve got to go up here to the top. Okay I will make the motion that the Chanhassen City Council approves the site plan for a 39,000 square foot, one story warehouse expansion subject to the conditions of the staff report and adoption of the Planning Commission’s Findings of Fact. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second? Councilwoman Ernst: Second. Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none we’ll proceed with the vote. 43 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that the City Council approve the proposed 39,000 square-foot, one-story warehouse expansion and adoption of the attached findings of fact subject to the following conditions: Fire Marshal: 1.The applicant shall provide information of the product commodity per 2007 Minnesota Fire Code Section 2303 and the proposed storage height in order to determine if fire apparatus access is required to parts of the building. If apparatus access is required but not practical due to topography, power lines, railways or similar conditions, the fire code will accept additional fire protection in lieu of apparatus access. Contact Chanhassen Fire Marshal for additional information. City of Chaska: 2.A Metropolitan Council SAC determination will still be required and Chaska shall be reimbursed at a rate of $1,157 per SAC unit for providing trunk service to the building expansion. Building Official: 1.The entire facility must have an automatic fire extinguishing system for consideration as an “unlimited” size building (Ref. 2006 IBC Sec. 507); if any portion of the facility is not sprinkled, fire-wall separations may be required. 2.The plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the State of Minnesota. 3.Compliance with Minnesota Accessibility Code (MSBC 1341) is required. 4.The owner and or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division as soon as possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures. 5.A demolition permit is required for building removals that take place before the building permit for the addition is issued. Environmental Resource Specialist: 1.The applicant shall increase the number of overstory trees by four. The applicant shall submit a revised landscape plan for City review and approval prior to issuance of a building permit. 2.The blue spruce and Redbud species shall be replaced from the City’s approved list of landscape material. 3.All ornamental trees must be at least one inch in diameter. 44 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Planner: 1.Mechanical equipment shall be screened if any is installed. No wooden fences shall be used on the roof for screening. 2.The developer shall show that 213 parking stalls can be accommodated on site. 3.The developer should investigate the use of clerestory windows around the building expansion. 4.The expansion should investigate the use of columns to help break up the building elevations at approximately 40-foot intervals. 5.The addition encroaches into the electric transmission easement. Staff recommends that the applicant verify with the utility company that the proposed addition is acceptable. 6.There are wooden bollards around the existing electrical tower. Any bollards damaged or removed with construction must be replaced. 7.Prior to the development of the vacant property north of the existing building, the City will have to undertake a feasibility study to determine the cost effectiveness of the extension of utilities to the property. Water Resource Coordinator: 1.The developer must provide rate control for an area equal to the addition. 2.The developer must provide water quality treatment for the same area. 3.The developer must comply with any requirements for discharging to an Outstanding Resource Value water. This can be accomplished through infiltration and discharge through non-structural BMPs at a relatively low cost. 4.The developer will need to apply for and receive an NPDES Small Site Construction permit in the event that one acre or more of disturbance results on the entire site. 5.The developer must provide a detailed grading and erosion control plan compliant with City Code. 6.A drainage easement shall be recorded over the area of the parcel to be used for surface water treatment. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: 45 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Mayor Furlong: Any council presentations? Councilman McDonald: I’ve got one. Mayor Furlong: Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: I went to the open house yesterday for the firemen and stuff and actually spent some time going around talking to people and I have to say it was a very positive experience. Everybody is very happy with our fire department. You know I didn’t get any negative comments about the city or anything. In fact everybody, I met a lot of people that had just moved here within the past 2 years and you know the comments I got from all of them, the reasons they moved here was because the City is what the city is. I mean based upon you know what we got out of Money Magazine and those types of things. This is the type of community people are looking for in order to raise their families. The services that the City has been providing, everybody was very happy with that. Again they’re very pleased with the fire department. I didn’t even get any bad comments about city staff and in a couple places they had had some run in’s but it was handled in a very professional way and I mean I was just amazed. Everybody was very happy so I guess the only reason I’m here is to tell you all the feedback is yeah, we’re doing a good job. We walk the walk and we talk the talk so to staff, my hats off and I say you know thank you because you are the ones with the initial contacts with all of these people that come in and again as I said, very positive feedback because of the interaction between residents and the city and all that so thanks. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Todd Gerhardt: Now that we have the fountain of youth in Chanhassen, building permits have just skyrocketed. Mayor Furlong: Ten more years we have to live here, get to. Get to. Kate Aanenson: Get to it. Mayor Furlong: Get to. Todd Gerhardt: That was based on the article that was written on the Tribune. There was a study. Councilman Litsey: Yeah it was nice. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. That recognized a few communities and we were one of the few that had a higher life expectancy of our residents. Edina, Chanhassen and I forget which other. Councilman Litsey: Maybe it’s the pickles. 46 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Todd Gerhardt: It’s a Minnesota pickle. Councilman McDonald: Well Kate stand by for a building permit. You’re going to inundated. Mayor Furlong: Any other council presentations? ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: Todd Gerhardt: Just a couple. 41 opened up last week and Paul’s going to get nervous but I’m going to tell the public that we’re hoping that 101 will be open by the end of the week here. Mayor Furlong: What’s Paul’s phone number? Councilman Litsey: They did have one lane closed down today. They were patching the shoulder. Todd Gerhardt: Oh on 41, yeah. Councilman Litsey: But you could get through. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. And I think they’re going to be doing the other lane tomorrow so. But nice to have 41 open and hopefully by the end of the week 101 will be opened. We’ll be able to get employees back and forth. That’s all I have. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Gerhardt or his staff? No? CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION. Mayor Furlong: One comment I’d like to make on that, we talked a little bit about it at our work session this evening and that was on the I and I, the Inflow and Infiltration task force. There was a letter in our correspondence packet tonight from Chairman Peter Bell at the Metropolitan Council saying that they have changed their policy with regard to encouraging, with a carrot or a stick, cities to reduce I and I. Over the last few years it has been the carrot that they’ve used and the plan was to start using a stick and the task force that worked on that, our city engineer Mr. Paul Oehme was on that task force. We heard a little bit about it at the work session this evening from Patty Nowmen from Metro Cities but first of all I want to say to Mr. Oehme, thank you for serving on that. It was critical to have our input in there. We’ve made a lot of improvements to our sewer system and effectively as we all know what this is, is this is when storm water gets into the sanitary sewer system during heavy rains. It adds to the capacity needs to the treatment facility and the policy in place over the last several years was that, amounts that we, the cities put into improving their sewer system to reduce the inflow and infiltration was credited against what would have otherwise been a fee against our residents. Going forward the plan had been to impose a fee that would not be reimbursable and the task force was successful in working with the Met Council to eliminate that policy as it is going forward, which is a significant reduction in what our costs would have been for sanitary sewer so Mr. Oehme, thank you for your service on that. Anything you’d like to comment about that task force or your involvement there. 47 Chanhassen City Council - October 11, 2010 Paul Oehme: No, thank you Mayor for the nice comments but yeah I served with 18 other communities and utility personnel, engineers and it was a positive experience. I think the Met Council did want to work with the cities and communities to address this issue and I think what came out of the task force was a decent outcome so I think it’s going to work for everybody. Mayor Furlong: Sounds good. Very good, thank you. Any other discussion on the correspondence packet? If not, if there’s nothing else to come before the council this evening, is there a motion to adjourn? Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman McDonald seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. The City Council meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 48