4. Appeal Conditions of Sign Plan Review for Paws, Claws, and Hooves Pet Boarding CITY OF P C. DATE: 8 -6 -97
CUANUACEN C.C. DATE:
9-22-97
_ CASE: 97 -1 Sign
BY: Al- Jaff:v
STAFF REPORT
PROPOSAL: Appeal Conditions of Sign Plan Review for Paws, Claws, and Hooves Pet
Boarding
— LOCATION: North and adjacent to Highway 212 and east and adjacent to Highway 101.
3 Address: 10500 Great Plains Boulevard
APPLICANT : Ms. Nancy Lee and Mr. Patrick Blood
P.O. Box 94
Shakopee, MN 55379
445 -0503
PRESENT ZONING: BF, Fringe Business District
ACREAGE: 13.16 acres
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE: N - A -2; large lot single family residential and
abandoned Railroad Right -of -Way
S - A -2; Minnesota River Valley
E - BF; commercial (sells used cars)
W - BF; existing Brooks Motel
SEWER AND WATER: Services are not available to the site.
' SITE CHARACTERISTICS: The site contains two building (commercial kennel and
stable) that are currently under construction. Vegetation is concentrated along the north, west,
) east, southwest, and southeast of the site. The center of the site is void of vegetation. There is a
Natural Wetland located along the south edge of the site. There is an intermittent stream located
to the southeast of the site which drains into the Minnesota River Valley (Wildlife Refuge).
2000 LAND USE: Commercial
Paws, Claws & Hooves Pet Boarding
September 22, 1997
Page 2
BACKGROUND
The applicants sought and received a sign plan approval but believe the condition for
architectural compatibility for the sign pole cover is cost prohibitive. Staff is not certain the
proposed change meets the intent of the City Council and direction given to staff.
On August 25, 1997, the City Council approved a Sign Plan 97 -1 for Paws Claws and Hooves
Pet Boarding, as shown on plans dated July 18, 1997, with the following conditions:
1. Both buildings (commercial kennel and stable) shall share one monument sign. One
monument sign per lot. Monument signage shall be subject to the monument standards in
the sign ordinance.
2. Both buildings (commercial kennel and stable) shall share one pylon sign. One pylon sign
per lot. The sign shall be subject to the dimensions and location proposed by the applicant.
3. Wall signs shall not be permitted.
4. All signs require a separate permit.
5. The signage will have consistency throughout the development and add an architectural
accent to the building.
6. Consistency in signage shall relate to color, size, materials and heights.
7. No illuminated signs within the development may be viewed from the residential section
north or west of the site.
8. Only back -lit individual letter signs are permitted as wall mounted signs as specified on the
proposed plans.
9. Individual letters may not exceed 2 feet and logos may not exceed 30 inches in height.
10. Only the name and logo of the business occupying the unit will be permitted on the sign.
11. The applicant must obtain a sign permit prior to erecting the signs on site. A detailed sign
plan incorporating the method of lighting, acceptable to staff should be provided prior to
requesting a sign permit.
Paws, Claws & Hooves Pet Boarding
September 22, 1997
Page 3
12. These conditions shall be recorded with Carver County and added as an addendum to the
site plan agreement. Staff will prepare the agreement which must be signed by the
applicant.
13. Any changes in the sign band must be reviewed by staff. Any significant alteration shall be
brought back to the Planning Commission.
14. Street sight triangle regulations shall apply to the monument sign location on the
intersection of the private driveway and TH 101.
15. That the pylon sign shall be no more than 15 feet in height. That the signage is 64 square
feet and that the base be redesigned so that the structural supports are not exposed. The
coverage should be architecturally and aesthetically designed to match the building. The
applicant and staff shall work out the design and the use of materials.
PROPOSAL
Instead of brick, the applicants are proposing to use wood siding as pole covers since the secondary
material used on the buildings is wood. They believe that the use of brick is inconsistent with the
building's appearance as well as cost prohibitive. The applicant is proposing the size of the sign
not to exceed 64 square feet (revised design enclosed). The applicant is also proposing the height
of the sign not to exceed 16 feet. The sign will be located along Highway 212, on the edge of a
retention pond and be setback 40 feet from the front property line.
If the City Council desires to accept the proposed changes in pole cover design, staff has prepared
new conditions of approval. If you do not support the proposed changes, the Council should let the
original conditions stand.
RECOMMENDATION
The City Council recommends approval of sign plan 97 -1 as shown on plans dated July 18, 1997,
revised September 11, 1997, with the following conditions:
1. Both buildings (commercial kennel and stable) shall share one monument sign. One
monument sign per lot. Monument signage shall be subject to the monument standards in
the sign ordinance.
2. Both buildings (commercial kennel and stable) shall share one pylon sign. One pylon
sign per lot. The sign shall be subject to the dimensions and location proposed by the
applicant.
Paws, Claws & Hooves Pet Boarding
September 22, 1997
Page 4
3. Wall signs shall not be permitted.
4. All signs require a separate permit.
5. The signage will have consistency throughout the development and add an architectural
accent to the buildings.
6. Consistency in signage shall relate to color, size, materials and heights.
7. No illuminated signs within the development may be viewed from the residential section
north or west of the site.
8. Individual letters may not exceed 2 feet and logos may not exceed 30 inches in height.
9. Only the name and logo of the business occupying the unit will be permitted on the sign.
10. The applicant must obtain a sign permit prior to erecting the signs on site. A detailed sign
plan incorporating the method of lighting, acceptable to staff should be provided prior to
requesting a sign permit.
11. These conditions shall be recorded with Carver County and added as an addendum to the
site plan agreement. Staff will prepare the agreement which must be signed by the
applicant.
12. Any changes to the signs must be reviewed by staff. Any significant alteration shall be
brought back to the Planning Commission.
13. Street sight triangle regulations shall apply to the monument sign location on the
intersection of the private driveway and TH 101.
14. That the pylon sign shall be no more than 15 feet in height. That the signage is 64 square
feet and that the base be redesigned so that the structural supports are not exposed. The
coverage should be architecturally and aesthetically designed to match the building."
ATTACHMENTS
1. Letter from applicant dated September 11, 1997 with revised pylon sign design.
2. Original proposals.
3. City Council minutes dated August 25, 1997.
Nancy and Patrick Blood
Paws. Claws & Hooves Pet Boarding
P.O. Box 94
Shakopee, MN. 55379
445 -0503
September 11, 1997
Kate Aanenson
Planning Dept.
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, MN. 55317
Kate.
As you are asvare we were on the agenda at the city council meeting on August 25, 1997
for approval of our sign plans. We have not received a copy of the minutes from this -
meeting yet but it is our understanding that the council has directed us to add pole covers to
our pylon sign to meet code, and that our monument sign mist follow the "site distance
triangle" definition. It was also our understanding that the mayor dropped the size of our
sign by a few squ.arc feet to have us comply to the sign standards in the Highway district. If
that is the case it makes sense to foliow this Section 20 -1303 tliroug out. As our principal
structures are less than 50,000 square feet our pylon sign size will not exceed 64 square
feet or 16 feet in height and ow monument sign size will not exceed 64 square feet and 8
feet in height.
City eode asks for the signs to be architecturally and aesthetically designed to match the
buildings. Our buildings are primarily metal. Council denied metal as the pole covers. We
have proposed to use wood siding as our pole covers as this is our secondary building
material. To require us to use only brick as our sign pole covers is not only cost prohibitive
but is not consistent with the buiidimis appearances or use. Brick will not be used.
The ioilowing is our proposal:
The pylon sign pole covers will be wood siding. They will be 8' height. Sketch enclosed.
The staff report also shows this sign to be IN the retention pond 40' from the property line.
To again correct this issue the sign wilt be beside the retention pond and this distance is not
the 40' staff wrote in the reports but does incei code.
The monument sign is located so that it does not intrude on traffic. If you would like to
have your traffic engineer visit us on site to resolve this issue we would be available.
These changes put us in compliance with city code.
The council said staff could approve our changes. If you choose not to approve these
changes we would expect to be put on the council agenda of September 22, 1997 as per
our previous conversation and voice mail message left on 9/5/97 at 12:59 P.M. We will
need to know your decision immediately and would appreciate a response by Tuesday
September 16. 1.997 or sooner. We submitted our sign plans for approval in May and it is
now September. We are a new business and need to get our signs erected. As we have
stressed before time is of essence.
Sincerely,
�Tanc ]Mood
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City Council Meeting - August 25, 1997
Roger Knutson: 1 haven't seen the changes or know about them until now so 1 can't comment.
Councilman Berquist: Where were the changes generated? At the developers or at the City's behest?
Mayor Mancino: The applicant.
Councilman Berquist: All right.
Fred Richter: ...everything's been mutually agreed upon between ourselves and staff...
Mayor Mancino: Well why don't you go ahead and then we'll continue. Thank you. Councilman
Mason, did you have, I'm sorry. Did you have any input?
Councilman Mason: No.
Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Okay.
I. SIGN PLAN REVIEW FOR A PYLON MONUMENT AND WALL SIGN LOCATED AT THE
NORTHEAST CORNER OF HIGHWAYS 101 AND 212; PAWS, CLAWS AND HOOVES PET
BOARDING.
Mayor Mancino: Before we go ahead, is the applicant here? Paws, Claws and Hooves. Okay, you are
here so we'll go ahead and try and talk about this right now and not wait until later on in the meeting.
We can get to it now for you. Staff report please. Or should we have a staff report? Yes.
Sharmin Al -Jaff: Just a quick background. On September 23 of last year you approved a site plan for
the construction of a commercial stable and a commercial kennel. One of the conditions of approval at
the time was a complete sign plan be submitted to the City for review and approval by Planning
Commission and City Council. The applicant has submitted plans for their signage and that's what
you're taking action on today. They are proposing one monument sign that meets all ordinance
requirements. 24 square feet in height, 5 feet. 24 square feet in area, 5 feet tall. Proposed to be located
at the entrance of TH 101 into the site. They're also proposing a wall mounted sign. The ordinance
permits 234 square feet. The applicant is proposing a sign band with 24 inch illuminated channel letters.
Approximately 100 square feet, which meets ordinance requirements. Briefly on the wall mounted signs.
One of the issues that was discussed at the Planning Commission was a suggestion by the applicant that
they not be locked in to the sign band. For instance if they wanted to stack the letters, they would be
permitted to do so. If the City Council wanted to allow that flexibility, then condition 3 on page 4 would
need to be changed accordingly. The third sign is a free standing sign. Originally in September of '96
we didn't have a design for the sign. We didn't know what it was going to look like. Staff
recommended a 24 square foot sign area, not to exceed 15 feet in height. The applicant has picked out a
new design. They are proposing a 69.8 square feet sign area, 16 feet tall. And it's proposed to be located
40 feet from the front property line. Staff is recommending approval with conditions outlined in the staff
report.
Mayor Mancino: Thank you Sharmin. Before the applicant comes up, I just have one question. Do we
have a drawing of the wall sign? Or do we have a line drawing or rendering?
4
City Council Meeting - August 25, 1997
Sharmin AI -Jaff: It is attached to your staff. It is attached to the staff report. It should be 3 or 4 pages
from the end.
Mayor Mancino: I see the monument sign, thank you.
Councilman Senn: But where's the sign?
Mayor Mancino: Where it says no wall mounted sign.
Sharmin Al -Jaff: It says Paws, Claws and Hooves Boarding.
Mayor Mancino: But it doesn't say what side of the building.
Councilman Senn: Oh the, oh okay. All right.
Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Any other questions for staff at this point? Is the applicant here and would
you like to address the City Council?
Ed Dousette: I'm Ed Dousette....Sign and I'm the one who's put this package together so I think it's
probably best that I be talking because 1 know what's going on.
Mayor Mancino: Okay. Any questions for the applicant'?
Councilman Berquist: I've got a question on the drawing. The wall mounted sign, where we're talking
about stacking. I'm assuming Paws, Claws and Hooves Boarding as opposed to one straight line across
would be Paws, Claws, Hooves and Boarding.
Ed Dousette: There was no creativity done. We did this just to meet the criteria and in terms hold the
space. Absolutely no creativity has gone into...the letters yet. I mean this is future, down the road but
might as well get the whole criteria approved and we can come back and deal with staff to make sure.
Councilman Berquist: There's an eave Tight that's noted on that sketch. Is that a down light from the
eave that would light these letters? I mean there's something in here that says, individual channel letters,
illuminated channels.
Ed Dousette: Everything submitted and everything according to your codes would be individual channel
letters backed up with neon.
Councilman Berquist: Is that eave light just a, does that just let light into the barn? Okay. No further
questions.
Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. I just have a couple of staff at this point, just to make sure I've got
some things in my head. In the business fringe district, under our ordinance they're allowed one
monument sign and one wall mounted sign and that's it.
Sharmin AI -Jaff: We...street frontage on the wall mounted sign.
Mayor Mancino: So they're allowed one wall mounted sign per street frontage and one monument sign?
5
City Council Meeting - August 25, 1997
Sharmin AI -Jaff: Correct.
Mayor Mancino: And no pylon sign in our business fringe district. Number two. This land use is
guided, as we continue to rework on this at the end of last year. The land use for this area is guided for
office industrial. Okay. So in the future, down in that area around it, as it develops and changes hands, it
will go to an office industrial land use in that area. And there's also, 1 want to say to the east of it, there
will be some area for mixed use. Kind of a mixed use area or is that high density residential?
Sharmin AI -Jaff: High density residential.
Mayor Mancino: It will be high density residential. So I'm just again saying this so that you know
we've got some guidance and some plan here now for this land use, which will change very significantly
from what it is today. You can bring that up as we consider this. Any other?
Councilman Senn: Sharmin, I just want to, 1 want to make sure I understand. The proposal that's before
us tonight, okay, is basically two wall signs.
Sharmin Al -Jaff: One wall sign.
Mayor Mancino: One on the stable.
Sharmin AI -Jaff: On the kennel.
Mayor Mancino: Oh is it on the kennel, not the stable? Stable. Because that's where you can, that's
what you can see, its predominant. There's nothing in front of it.
Councilman Senn: So you have one wall mounted on the stable.
Sharmin AI -Jaff: Correct.
Councilman Senn: Okay. And those are the lit, or proposed to be the lit letters. Okay, and then there's
also an outside light band above that?
Sharmin Al -Jaff: It's an eave light.
Councilman Berquist: But it just lets light into the barn.
Councilman Senn: But it just lights?
Councilman Berquist: It doesn't light. It's not mechanically lit.
Councilman Senn: Oh, okay. So that's not a light. That's a window effectively. Okay. And then
there's going to be, so you have one wall mounted sign. On this table we have one monument sign.
Sharmin Al -Jaff: At the entrance off of TH 101.
6
City Council Meeting - August 25, 1997
Councilman Senn: At the entrance on TH 101 and you have one pylon sign being requested on 212 then.
Okay. And the ordinance allows on pylon, well 1 mean the ordinance doesn't allow anything on the
pylon, correct? And on the monument sign, 24 square feet and they're proposing 24 square feet and on
the wall mounted sign, the ordinance allows them?
Sharmin AI -Jaff: 224 square feet. They are proposing 100.
Councilman Senn: And they're doing 100. Okay.
Councilman Berquist: Excuse me. Now I'm confused. Were approving three signs?
Councilman Senn: Yes. And if you were, I'm sorry. I need to think faster when l was doing it but now
tell me the industrial again. What does the ordinance require under industrial? Or allow under
industrial?
Sharmin AI -Jaff: 80 square feet.
Councilman Senn: On which?
Sharmin AI -Jaff: On industrial.
Councilman Senn: 80 square feet on the wall sign, is what you're saying.
Sharmin AI -Jaff: No, on the pylon sign.
Councilman Senn: So 80 square feet on a pylon sign. How much on a monument? If it were 1.
Sharmin AI -Jaff: I believe it's 64 square feet...
Mayor Mancino: 1 think it's 64 too.
Councilman Senn: Okay, that's fine. Close enough. And how about the wall mounted?
Sharmin AI -Jaff: Depends on the size of the building. A certain percentage.
Councilman Senn: Okay. All right.
Mayor Mancino: Is there anyone here wishing to address the City Council on this issue? Seeing none,
comments from commissioners. Councilman Senn.
Councilman Senn: Well I guess, I mean I don't have a problem with the monument sign as it's proposed.
I guess 1 don't have a problem with the wall sign as it's proposed, with the back lighting, but I do have a
problem with, I can't really see any real reason to grant the variance and provide the pylon sign.
Basically between the entrance monument and the backlit sign on the side of the stable, it's going to be
visible from everywhere so I don't really see a need to vary, or hardship to vary to allow for additional
signage.
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City Council Meeting - August 25, 1997
Councilman Mason: I certainly agree with Mark's first two points. Knowing that area, with what you
said and rightfully so about how things are going to be changing, I'm a little, I tend to agree with Mark
but I guess I'm not quite as convinced as he is yet on that one. So 1 guess I'd like to hear what you two
folks have to say about the pylon sign as well.
Mayor Mancino: Well one of the things, do you mind if 1 just talk for a second?
Councilman Berquist: No, go ahead.
Mayor Mancino: One of the things that I did on Sunday was I took a trip in this area and you know I
carne back to see what we had guided it, to check myself, and then 1 went on Highway 5 and said what
do we allow on Highway 5. What's there and what's existing, and you know it's a fairness issue. To
make sure that again we treat 212 just like a Highway 5, for a major corridor through the city. And a
couple things I found. First in the office industrial, nobody uses a pylon sign. All the business parks,
etc. are monument. Now a lot of them are PUDs and so we've had them do monument signs and this is a
conditional use, which we could write in as a condition of just a monument sign. The other thing is that
the pylon signs that are there which you know are Target, Perkins, the Roman Roos building. 1 don't
know what that is but anything that's been done the last 5 years, it doesn't have the traditional pylon
look, you know with the two. It has a base like a base that's made out of material of the building. It will
be like a monument base almost. Like brick, etc. It certainly has a more modern, up to date feel of the
pylon sign as it's base. So would we see this sign on Highway 5? 1 don't think so. So I tried to kind of,
because this area will develop and it will have a high use. My other concern was having both a wall sign
and a pylon sign. 1 mean I just think that it's either a pylon or a wall sign for 212. And just to have the
two signs. Otherwise I think we've done a very good job of making sure that commercial places, 1 mean
this is a destination place. 1 mean you, in the telephone book, you ask your friends where can I board,
etc. You're just not driving by and have impulse buying. I think that the city and the citizens are
concerned about aesthetics and what's on their corridors and I think we've done a real good job. So
wouldn't want to deviate from that. When you go down 212 right now, part of the problem with 212 and
1 mean we have parked cars, we have all sorts of things, were some of the old signage. The old pylon
signs. So I kind of, I want to make sure that we treat 212 as we would... That's my over riding concern.
Councilman Berquist: Makes sense to me. When I looked at the report I was a little bit confused, as is
probably evident. Let me get this straight. We approved a variance when we did the initial plat.
Sharmin Al -Jaff: Correct.
Councilman Berquist: For the pylon sign. That was a condition of approval requested by the applicant
and we acquiesced.
Sharmin AI -Jaff: Correct.
Mayor Mancino: But it was a different measurement than this one. When City Council.
Councilman Berquist: But wait a minute. We have not seen a, the way I'm understanding this.
Sharmin Al -Jaff: We didn't have a design for a sign to review so therefore we used the sane dimension
as the monument sign permitted in the BF district. We just added height to it.
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City Council Meeting - August 25, 1997
Councilman Berquist: I'm still, I still think that I'm mixed up. 1 understand the lighting on the stable. 1
don't have any problem with that. If another sign on Highway 212 goes in. This sign that I'm looking at
here, again I was looking at this as being the entrance, the sign that was going on TH 101. So currently
there is no sign being proposed for the TH 101 entrance.
Shannin AI -Jaff: There is.
Councilman Berquist: There is?
Sharmin Al -Jaff: That's this one.
Mayor Mancino: So it's the same one except that it's lower. And it doesn't have the H on the top, or
I'm sorry, the horseshoe.
Councilman Berquist: Horseshoe. That's where! got confused. Okay. All right. And unless 1 could be
convinced that there is an absolutely compelling reason to approve two signs that are visible from
Highway 169, I would have a difficult time approving it. Voting for approval.
Ed Dousette made a statement that was not picked up on tape.
Councilman Berquist: But this one won't be lit, right? This sign.
Mayor Mancino: So it will be lit?
Councilman Senn: You just think that's wood. It's really plastic, right?
Ed Dousette: That is painted. There will be metal poles, lexan facing. What we're doing is we will
create...and make a wood finish.
Councilman Senn: Right, it's fox wood.
Ed Dousette: It will be translucent.
Councilman Berquist: All right. Well now it's becoming clear. So if in fact, if you want, in our infinite
wisdom if we say two signs only, it's likely going to be the pylon and the main entrance sign and the
other one will go away. Okay.
Mayor Mancino: Let me give you my last concerns, or my last comments and then other members can
speak up. Number one, on the monument sign on TH 101, I would like to make sure, pulling out of the
driveway is not the easiest thing to do on TH 101 because of the sight lines so I would like to make sure
and add a condition, and first I'll explain it and then I'll state the condition. That the monument sign be
out of way. Not be in that, you know 10 foot setback. That it'd be further removed and I'm sure the
applicant and our engineers, staff can work on sight lines because I'm very concerned that that will stick
up and people sitting in their cars won't be able to get out of TH 101, and that's for public safety
concern. So I would like to say that the street sight triangle regulations shall apply to the monument sign
location on the intersection of the private driveway and TH 101. Secondly, the pylon sign, the variance
has been granted. I would only, let's see the pylon signs, I would like to have it keep to 15 feet. 1 would
be okay with a 64 square foot signage. It would need to be redesigned for me with a different base using
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City Council Meeting - August 25, 1997
the materials, the brick of the building. Come back for redesign and then I would not approve the wall
sign. So I would strike condition 3 and not have a wall sign. It is also going in the drainage ditch or the
pond and is that a concern of ours and is there a reason for it? Could the applicant, I'm sorry I didn't ask
you this. Why is it going in the.
Nancy Lee: ...located in the drainage ditch...on the edge.
Mayor Mancino: On the west edge?
Nancy Lee's statement from the audience was not picked up on tape.
Mayor Mancino: Okay, and it's not in road right -of -way, correct?
Nancy Lee's statement from the audience was not picked up on tape.
Mayor Mancino: It is there in that area, just so the Council members know, it's very open. You can see
the sign. You can even see the sign, the little Lester sign, Lester Engineering sign that's there right now
that's only 4 feet tall so it's not as if there's not a lot of visibility because there is but I'm very concerned
about what we start putting in there now.
Councilman Mason: Well it's a precedent.
Mayor Mancino: Yeah, it really is. Can I have other remarks from discussion around that? I wouldn't
approve.
Councilman Berquist: Yeah, I'm still, I've still got to, I mean I understand that Nye don't want to set a
precedent that we can't live with other projects as 212 develops. And I look at this monument, this pylon
sign and 1 try to envision driving by on 169 and having that thing staring me in the face, and then I also
try to envision the back lit letters mounted on the building, looking out on the road and I would think
that, if I were the owner of the facility 1 would feel much more inclined to have any letters on the
building and lit, because you've got, I mean you've got a building there. Your identifying a building.
The pylon sign is out there closer to the highway but significantly away from the structure itself. And
hate to sound like the taste police but I would think from an aesthetic point of view the sign contractor
would be arguing in favor of the building mounted sign as opposed to the pylon mounted sign.
Mayor Mancino: Yeah, you can come up Nancy.
Nancy Lee: To be quite honest, what we originally were looking at was the entrance sign, monument
sign on TH 101 and a pylon sign. The wall mounted sign came up when staff had directed the sign
company to put everything together and put it all in one big package so...go through one, and not several
times. On 212, if we were to just put letters on the building, the only people that are going to see that are
the people corning from Shakopee. The people from Chaska and the people from like the Eden Prairie
area, they're coming this way past it. They're not looking back this way at a sign, and if they are...so for
us to put just letters on our building is not going to, it's going to be such limited viewing of our... That's
why we originally when we went through the process, went through getting the variance on the pylon
sign because we do need it where all people can see it. You know directions. Not just coming from
Shakopee.
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City Council Meeting - August 25, 1997
Councilman Berquist: And you don't consider yourself a destination business? In other words, when
people are coming to you, they're coming to you. They're not, they're heading for Paws, Claws, and
Hooves. They're not heading for the motel and oh gee, I've got to get rid of this dog or whatever.
Nancy Lee: Right. It's not going to be a whim thing usually but also nobody knows about us yet. We're
a brand new company. So if I don't get my name out there, I may not be a brand new company for long.
I might be a gone company. And that's why we tried to find the best location, being 212 and that's why
applied for the pylon sign because we do want our name seen. And there are other pylon signs along
those roadways. Evidently our taste is different than everyone else. We thought we were putting up a
very nice, classy sign.
Councilman Berquist: Well, don't misunderstand what I'm saying. 1 mean yeah, I think you are and 1
think the type of sign that you're proposing is in keeping with the business that you're in and so I mean I
think that's great.
Nancy Lee: That's what we tried to do.
Councilman Berquist: Okay. The square footage of this sign currently is 5 '/2 by 10 so within that 64
square feet.
Mayor Mancino: 69.
Councilman Berquist: 69.5.
Sharmin AI -Jaff: The area of the logo is included within that.
Councilman Berquist: As it should be.
Nancy Lee: We also put some thought into that sign in reference to, we first wanted to put our logo up
there but felt that it would be too distracting for motorists to try to look at a logo and decide who you are
and what you're doing. It was too much. So we went to strictly the name in an effort to not, of trying to
he less of a hazard for people.
Councilman Berquist: So the top piece to the pylon sign is gone.
Nancy Lee: That's our logo. No, that's.
Mayor Mancino: That's what they'd like to include.
Nancy Lee: We originally looked at the whole sign being the logo but felt that because it would be more
distracting to traffic than simply your names. To read Paws, Claws and Hooves Boarding is pretty
simplistic and they're not going to be craning their neck to look at it more. So we tried to put as much
thought into you know safety and everything else in this sign but yet still have our name out there. We
need to get known.
Councilman Berquist: And I really don't mean to make as big a deal of this as 1 am but that is an area
that is going to change dramatically within the next 10 to 15 years. Anything we do now gets done later.
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City Council Meeting - August 25, 1997
Nancy Lee: We've had the property for 10 years and we've been trying to build on it for 10 years so I
guess we thought we had a good use but, if you're looking at the difference between the signs, we
definitely, our pylon is a definite must and that's why we went for the variance before. Thank you.
Councilman Berquist: Thank you.
Mayor Mancino: Sharmin, was the variance predicated on our seeing and approving the design of the
sign? Or did we give a variance regardless of, we said these are the measurements you can have.
Sharmin AI -Jaff: We didn't have a design...
Mayor Mancino: Councilman Mason.
Councilman Mason: Boy. Just when you think something's easy. Yeah, because 1 don't very often find
myself sitting kind of right in the middle of the fence. I wish 1 knew what it was going to look like 10
years from now down there. Or 2 years. I mean.
Mayor Mancino: It's going to be gorgeous.
Councilman Mason: Well it's going to be very nice and 1 understand the need for the visibility and 1
guess I certainly agree with the applicant when they say well yeah, we are a destination but we're also
very new and people don't know about us so they want that identification too. I honestly don't know
right now.
Mayor Mancino: Councilman Senn.
Councilman Senn: Well 1 guess 1 told you before what 1 thought. I haven't changed what I thought. I
guess 1 can tell you what I think reality is. Reality is the number of people on a previous City Council
decided to approve a variance without seeing it so 1 think you're stuck with it. So 1 think you're stuck
with the pylon sign and 1 think you're pretty much forced to go with the position of the pylon sign and
the monument sign and scratch the wall sign. I don't know else you're going to do it. since you've
already promised the variance. Or at least a majority of the Council at the time promised the variance.
And so 1 think that kind of becomes the reality you're stuck with at this point so you can pick between
giving three signs. You can pick between giving two but if you're going to give two, you pretty much
have to give the monument. The only issue becomes do you want to make it so big and do you want to
make it so tall.
Mayor Mancino: And I would, as I said, I would be in favor of the two signs, the pylon and the
monument and then as far as going up in square footage to 64 square feet would be fine. The height
being 15 and then just to redesign the base. It doesn't have, in fact our, they call it pole covers in our
sign ordinance and they're supposed to aesthetically match the building and the structural support should
not be exposed so again building more of a base on this. So for that, for redesign of that I would be fine.
But then it does stay more into our sign ordinance. With that may 1 have a motion.
Ed Dousette: Excuse me Your Honor, may 1 speak?
Mayor Mancino: Yes.
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City Council Meeting - August 25, 1997
Ed Dousette: ...talking about...
Mayor Mancino: But you also have another building on there. This is the sign for both the kennel and
the building. One of them has brick on it. It might be workable to do a brick base, or you could come
back and show us some sort of base that would look good. Aesthetically good.
Ed Dousette: I'm just trying to make sure 1 understand.
Mayor Mancino: Most of the time if you go through Park City, if you go you know to Perkins or Target,
or Byerly's, etc., they have used the material which is on the building. Now I'm not sure we'd want
sheet metal but something that would be an attractive base could be put on this sign. 1 mean I would be
okay with that if the rest of the Council would be. Sure, I understand. That's a good question. Any
other discussion from Council members? May I have a motion?
Councilman Berquist: ...better than most of us.
Mayor Mancino: Okay. 1 move that the City Council, under the recommendation approve sign plan #97-
1 as shown on plans dated July 18, 1997 with the following conditions, and these are from the Planning
Commission. Number 1 and 2 stands as is. Number 3 is deleted. There is no wall sign. Number 4
through 13 stands. Number 14 is a new one that says street sight triangle regulations shall apply to the
monument sign location on the intersection of the private driveway and TH 101. And number 15. That
the pylon sign shall be no more than 15 feet in height. That the signage is 64 square feet and that the
base be redesigned so that the structural supports are not exposed. And that the coverage should be
architecturally and aesthetically designed to match the building.
Councilman Senn: Does that mean metal's okay then?
Mayor Mancino: And that metal is not okay. And 1 would like to say that the applicant and staff shall
work out the design and the use of materials.
Councilman Berquist: How about, would you accept a combination of metal and face brick? Isn't there
face brick along the perimeter?
Mayor Mancino: There's face brick on the kennel.
Councilman Senn: Well it's rock face block. It's block.
Councilman Berquist: Combination of metal and face brick.
Mayor Mancino: Yes, Sharmin.
Sharmin Al -Jaff: Can we add another condition of approval, just for clarification for the future that wall
mounted signs are not permitted.
Mayor Mancino: So number 3 will say wall mounted signs are not permitted. Okay, thank you.
Councilman Mason: Second.
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City Council Meeting - August 25, 1997
Mayor Mancino: All those in favor signify.
Councilman Senn: Wait, excuse me. If 1 could, just a question first.
Mayor Mancino: You bet. Roger's not here. Don, 1 don't know, Sharmin, do you know. 1 mean how
many votes does this require on a variance?
Sharmin Al -Jaff: The variance has been approved...
Councilman Senn: All right. So 1 assume a simple majority then. Okay.
Mayor Mancino moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve Site Plan #97 -1 as shown on
plans dated July 18, 1997, with the following conditions:
1. Both buildings (commercial kennel and stable) shall share one monument sign. One monument
sign per lot. Monument signage shall be subject to the monument standards in the sign ordinance.
2. Both buildings (commercial kennel and stable) shall share one pylon sign. One pylon sign per lot.
The sign shall be subject to the dimensions and location proposed by the applicant.
3. Wall signs shall not be permitted.
4. All signs require a separate permit.
5. The signage will have consistency throughout the development and add an architectural accent to
the building.
6. Consistency in signage shall relate to color, size, materials and heights.
7. No illuminated signs within the development may be viewed from the residential section north or
west of the site.
8. Only back -lit individual letter signs are permitted as wall mounted signs as specified on the
proposed plans.
9. Individual letters may not exceed 2 feet and logos may not exceed 30 inches in height.
10. Only the name and logo of the business occupying the unit will be permitted on the sign.
11. The applicant must obtain a sign permit prior to erecting the signs on site. A detailed sign plan
incorporating the method of lighting, acceptable to staff should be provided prior to requesting a
sign permit.
12. These conditions shall be recorded with Carver County and added as an addendum to the site plan
agreement. Staff will prepare the agreement which must be signed by the applicant.
13. Any changes in the sign band must be reviewed by staff. Any significant alteration shall be
brought back to the Planning Commission.
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City Council Meeting - August 25, 1997
14. Street sight triangle regulations shall apply to the monument sign location on the intersection of
the private driveway and TH 101.
15. That the pylon sign shall be no more than 15 feet in height. That the signage is 64 square feet and
that the base be redesigned so that the structural supports are not exposed. The coverage should be
architecturally and aesthetically designed to match the building. The applicant and staff shall
work out the design and the use of materials.
All voted in favor, except Councilman Senn who opposed and the motion carried.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: UPDATE ON REFERENDUM OPEN SPACE PRESERVATION,
TRUST FOR PUBLIC LAND, MIKE MOORE.
Mike Moore: Mayor Mancino. Members of the City Council. Thank you for allowing me to speak. 111
be very brief. This is a quick update to report back on the progress which we have been working toward.
Basically as far as acquiring open space for the park system, we have made significant progress. The
number one priority parcel of land, the owner of that parcel and the trust for public land have come to an
agreement. We're in the process of hashing out and fine tuning the details of that and I am optimistic
that very soon we will be able to report to you that we do have control of the site and will be able to
proceed to allow the city to acquire it. Of course one of the upcoming steps is obtaining an appraisal and
of course we will be sharing the results of that appraisal with you provided with a copy.
Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Any questions for Michael? Council members.
Councilman Berquist: We're talking about one piece or a series of pieces or?
Mike Moore: The City has outlined, or has designated a priority list and we have begun negotiations
with the number one parcel and then once we have a good handle on that we will proceed to other
parcels. We didn't want to begin negotiating for the other parcels in that we didn't have a good idea of
how much of the funds would be available for the second, third, fourth and fifth parcels and so forth.
Councilman Berquist: So we're in the appraisal process now?
Mike Moore: No. We are on the verge of the appraisal process. Technically the first step is to firm up
in writing the agreement which TPL has with the property owner. Then the appraisal will be forth
coming and we'll provide copies to City Council. Thank you.
Mayor Mancino: Thank you Michael. Great, wonderful.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDER A "NO WAKE" ORDINANCE AMENDMENT ON LAKES
WITHIN THE CITY OF CHANHASSEN, FIRST AND SECOND READING. THIS
ORDINANCE WOULD RESTRICT CERTAIN BOATING ACTIVITIES WHEN LAKE LEVELS
REACH A SPECIFIED LEVEL. LAKES AFFECTED WOULD BE LOTUS, MINNEWASHTA,
LUCY, SUSAN AND RILEY.
Phillip Elkin: Thank you Mayor. The ordinance responded to the large amount of rainfall we have
gotten this year and the rising water levels on city lakes. What this effectively does, what you're looking
15