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1g. Planning Commission Minutes dated August 6, 1997iC� CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING AUGUST 6 1997 Chairman Peterson called the meeting to order at 7:15 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT; Allyson Brooks, Ladd Conrad, LuAnn Sidney, Craig Peterson MEMBERS ABSENT; Alison Blackowiak and Kevin Joyce STAFF PRESENT:, Kate Aanenson, Planning Director; Sharmin Al -Jaff, Planner II; and Dave Hempel, Assistant City Engineer PUBLIC HEARING:, SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A 22,500 SO. FT. OFFICE WAREHOUSE BUILDING ON, PROPERTY ZONED IOP, INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK AND LOCATED ON LOT 7 BLOCK 1, PARK ONE THIRD ADDITION (7580 OUATTRO DRIVEL AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF OUATTRO DRIVE AND 184 AVENUE WEST (DELL, ROAD) PERIPHERAL TECHNOLOGY, EDEN TRACE CORPORATION., Shannin Al -Jaff presented the staff report on this item. Peterson: Any questions of staff? I just have some questions of the applicant so, would the applicant or their designee wish to address the Planning Commission. If so, please come forward and state your name and address please. Mark Undestad: Mark Understood with Eden Trace, the developer. I don't have anything to add to the packet here. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Peterson: Questions of the applicant? Brooks: No, but I couldn't really see the drawing. Can I sort of. Peterson: Yeah, can we bring it up. We've only got a small group and. Brooks: All right, thanks. Peterson: There's a couple on the elevation that we put the additional windows on. Can you give me some kind of scope as to the length of that wall and then the relevant size of the windows? The scale is so small, it's kind of hard to get a good feel for how that's going to break up. Mark Understood: It's probably 160 feet. I don't have the... The windows are laid in lengthwise... Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Peterson: And they're up above the ground level 6 -7 feet? Mark Undestad's answer was not picked up on the tape. Peterson: How much landscaping is going to be in front of those windows? Mark Understood: We've got a lot of trees and shrubs planted all through here now. Peterson: Then Sharmin, from your perspective, looking at it now with the additional landscaping, and I'm almost indifferent about adding more windows. Adding more windows didn't seem to jump out at me as saying yeah, that's a lot better. My reaction is it's almost better with fewer windows with more landscaping. Al -Jaffa It was more to give the applicant ... as an architectural element to that elevation. Mark Understood: ...out here in the parking lot... Peterson: I mean my reaction, I think landscaping is going to give you more of a visual, positive visual effect on the windows because that's a lot of wall. Mark Undestad's statement was not picked up by the microphone. Peterson: And what type of trees are you planning on putting on that side? Mark Understood: It'd be a combination of pine trees... Peterson: Okay. Other questions? Sidney: I was wondering if we could look at the other side of the plan there. Where the trees are. Could you point out where the existing trees are please? Mark Understood: On the north side, there's a high ridge in here that drops down to the railroad tracks... mostly all this stuff in here is existing. There's a 20 foot conservation easement and we also added another 10 foot buffer to that. This area... Sidney: In the southwest corner then you will be taking some trees. Mark Understood: Down here? Sidney: Yeah, there. Mark Understood: Yeah, the initial, there was some... Sidney: And then as I understand the retaining wall isn't going to impact any existing trees right now. 2 Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Mark Understood: ...putting these in along here... We've actually down sized the building a lot... Sidney: What kind of trucks actually come in? Are they just going to be smaller? They're not semi's are they? Mark Understood: Actually, there is an occasional semi... Sidney: Oh, okay. Peterson: Just spend a couple minutes walking through the type of building materials and the color tones and just to give some sense. Mark Understood: You have the rock face block... concrete masonry ... to give it some more depth and character.. cantilever out the very top edge... Gives it a little more character and more flare. Peterson: That will be the stone. What colors are you planning on using? Mark Understood: Painted, it's... They're all done in the gray, beige... Sidney: Well maybe you can bring that forward for us. Mark Understood: It's real close to the colors we put on the picture here. Peterson: Two reference points. Normally we like to see those things, the actual colors and the actual materials before us. I strongly recommend that prior to going to Council that you have examples of those, because they'll be asking the same questions we're asking tonight. Sidney: What are the little accent block color? Mark Understood: Blue... Peterson: Other questions? Thank you. Mark Understood: Thank you. Peterson: May I have a motion to open this for a public hearing and a second please. Conrad moved, Sidney seconded to open the public hearing. The public hearing was opened. 3 Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Peterson: This is a public hearing so if anyone please wishes to address the Planning Commission, please come forward and state your name and address please. Seeing none, may I have a motion to close the public hearing and a second. Bill Sutherland: You move faster than I expected. I particularly appreciate the opportunity to be here because I'm not a Chanhassen resident. I'm an Eden Prairie resident but I'm close to the property in question so my name is Bill Sutherland. I live at 18564 Kristie Lane. I've got ... Dell Road to the north of the overpass. The only reason that I am here is that within the past year or so I've had a bad experience with acoustical noise in the middle of the night coming from traffic on Dell Road due to shift changes, I assume. Some of the buildings, some of the businesses in the industrial park and so the staff report a minute ago peaked my ears when... shifts so that's important to me. But I just have, perhaps in this context a detail question. Can somebody tell me about what the grade of the parking lot would be relative to the grade that's there now. In other words, where vertically will the building sit relative to the...? Mark Undestad's answer was not picked up by the microphone. Bill Sutherland: My concern I guess having no evidence presented to the contrary so far is that this level would be filled way up and this building would stick up in the air and create an acoustical issue but it looks fine. I just wanted to state my... Peterson: Thank you. Let's try this again. Can I get a motion to close the public hearing and a second please. Brooks moved, Sidney seconded to close the public hearing. The public hearing was closed. Peterson: Comments from commissioners. Allyson. Brooks: I don't really have any comments. It looks like a pretty standard building... Peterson: Thank you. Ladd. Conrad: I agree with the staff report, especially with the Fire Inspector's conditions. Peterson: LuAnn. Sidney: It looks fine to me. I thought the staff report was very well written and... Peterson: The only comment that I would have would be, if you haven't already done so Shannin, is to meet with them again just to talk about, you hadn't seen the windows on the new format, as to whether or more you're biased towards those windows or more biased towards more landscaping. I guess my preference would be towards landscaping so I didn't feel as though they added that much to it so. 0 Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Al -Jaffa I agree. This is the first time I've seen that since we wrote the staff report so... landscaping would maybe make more sense. Peterson: Thanks. With that, may I have a motion and a second please. Brooks: I move the Planning Commission recommends approval of site plan request #97 -10 for a 22,500 square foot building, Peripheral Technology, as shown on the plans dated July 7, 1997, subject to conditions 1 through 15. Peterson: Second? Sidney: Second. Brooks moved, Sidney seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval of Site Plan #97 -10 for a 22,500 square foot building (Peripheral Technology) as shown on the plans dated July 7, 1997, subject to the following conditions: 1. Plans for trash enclosure and rooftop screening shall be submitted to staff for approval. All rooftop equipment shall be screened from views. 2. The applicant shall enter into a Site Plan Agreement. Financial guarantees for landscaping shall be submitted to the City at the time of building permit application. 3. The applicant shall submit a lighting plan and must demonstrate that there is no more than 0.5 foot candles of light from fixtures at the property line. 4. The applicant shall add windows and landscaping along the west portion of the site. 5. The landscaping plan shall be revised to replace the proposed river birch with an oak tree and replace the proposed crabapple next to the loading dock with an overstory species. 6. The applicant shall install tree protection fencing around all preserved trees before site grading can commence. 7. The applicant shall comply with the conditions of the conservation easement located on the northerly 20 feet of the property. No trees will be allowed to be removed within the easement. 8. Building Official Recommendations: a. Revise the site plan to include required accessible parking, access aisles, curb ramps, and accessible route. b. Meet with the Inspections Division for a completed copy of Commercial Building Permit Requirements. 5 Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 9. Fire Inspector Conditions: a. Please provide hydrants as shown on plan. Minnesota Uniform Fire Code 1991, Section 10.403. b. A 10' clearance space must be maintained around fire hydrants, i.e. street lamps, trees, shrubs, bushes, NSP, US West, Cable TV, and transformer boxes. This is to ensure that fire hydrants can be quickly located and safely operated by firefighters. Pursuant to Chanhassen City Ordinance 9 -1. c. No parking fire lane signs and yellow curbing shall be provided. Contact the Chanhassen Fire Marshal or Fire Inspector for exact location of signage and painted curbing. Pursuant to Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Policy #06 -1991. d. Install post indicator valve on the water service coming into the building. Contact the Chanhassen Fire Marshal or Fire Inspector for exact location. e. When fire protection including fire apparatus access roads and water supplies for fire protection is required, such protection shall be installed and made serviceable prior to, and during the time of construction. Pursuant to Minnesota Uniform Fire Code 1991, Section 10.502. f Comply with Chanhassen Fire Department Policy regarding premise identification. Pursuant to Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Policy #26 -1992. g. Comply with the Chanhassen Fire Department Policy regarding maximum allowed size of domestic water service on combination domestic /fire sprinkler line. Pursuant to Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Policy #36 -1994. h. Comply with the Chanhassen Fire Department Policy regarding notes to be included on all site plans. Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Policy #04 -1991. i. Comply with Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Policy regarding fire pre - plans. Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Policy #07 -1991. j. Comply with Chanhassen Fire Department /Inspections Division Policy regarding water service installation for commercial /industrial buildings. Inspections Division Water Service Installation Policy #34 -1993. k. Comply with Chanhassen Fire Department Policy fire sprinkler systems. Chanhassen Fire Department /Fire Prevention Policy #40 -1995. Comply with Chanhassen Fire Department Policy on labeling of rated fire walls. Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Policy #44 -1997. 51 Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 m. Comply with Chanhassen Fire Department Policy on fire alarms. Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Policy #01 -1990. n. Locate existing hydrants on Quattro Drive and provide distances to entrance to the proposed building. o. Note on Sheet A 1.2 a tree that is placed next to hydrant. A 10' clear space must be maintained around fire hydrant. p. Note on Sheet A 1.2 a clear space needs to be maintained around the fire department connection. Trees and shrubs are currently shown in this area. Minnesota Uniform Fire Code Section 10. 10. The developer shall submit to the City for approval a revised Grading, Drainage and Erosion Control Plan incorporating additional silt fence along the driveway and City of Chanhassen Standard Detail Plates for Industrial Driveway (No. 5207), Silt Fence (No. 5300), and Rock Construction Entrance (No. 5301) and additional silt fence parallel to the driveway prior to issuance of a building permit. 11. Storm sewer calculations for a 10 year, 24 hour storm event shall be submitted to the City Engineering Department for review and approval prior to issuance of a building permit. 12. Haul routes shall be pre- approved by the City Engineer. 13. Any retaining walls to be constructed in excess of four feet in height must be engineered and appropriate permits and inspections obtained from the City's Building Inspections Department. 14. Sanitary sewer and water hook -up charges will be applied to the building permit. The charges shall be based on the number of SAC units determined by the Metropolitan Council. 15. A detailed sign plan incorporating the method of lighting, acceptable to staff should be provided prior to requesting a building permit. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC HEARING:, SIGN PLAN REVIEW REOUEST FOR A PYLON MONUMENT AND WALL SIGN. LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF HWY. 101 AND HWY 212, PAWS, CLAWS, AND HOOVES PET BOARDING., Sharmin Al -Jaff presented the staff report on this item. W/ Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Peterson: Any questions of staff? Conrad: Sharmin why, you're going beyond, what's your rationale for going beyond the original recommended sign size? Didn't you, did I read this right that the area be limited to 24 square feet? Al -Jaff: The applicant felt that with that size, the sign will not be seen from Highway 212. Conrad: That's probably true. Al -Jaff: And they felt that a larger sign would work better for their purposes. Conrad: What's our rationale for, if it's true. What's our rationale for going beyond? I guess we're just saying that we allowed variance. We granted a variance and now it's just common sense taking over versus an absolute 24 square feet. Now that we've looked at the specifics, this makes sense. Al -Jaff: We also looked, that question came up earlier today from Planning Commissioners contacted staff and said why that size. What we did was, we went through the ordinance and then pulled out all the pylon, there should be a sheet on... the districts that permit pylon signs. We found out that if the area is larger than 50 square feet for the principle structure, and if it's on highway business, general business or central business district, they can go up to 80 square feet. If it's less than 50,000, which is the case of the applicant, the maximum area shall not exceed 64 square feet. Aanenson: I was just going to give some rationale on how we ... when we did the sign ordinance. We tried to, the old sign ordinance there wasn't any factor given to the size of the parcel in relationship to the sign so what... same size sign. With the sign ordinance we tried to ... you have larger parcels, it made sense to give you larger signs. So I guess that's kind of the same... Sharmin came up with that. Since you've already granted a variance, giving them... Peterson: Other questions? Sidney: When we were talking about the sign area, are we just talking about where the lettering is? Not the horseshoe and logo up above. Aanenson: Well you can comment on the design... and the size. The recommendation that staff had as far as what we're coming up with, or point of beginning. You would start... Sidney: Well I guess it says in the staff report, it says 69.8 square feet. Is that only that one area? Al -Jaff: That includes the horseshoe. Sidney: Oh okay. So actually the lighted portion is much, it's quite a bit smaller than. 5 feet 6 I think I see here. No wait. Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Al -Jaff: Approximately 8 square feet attached to the... Conrad: This is the pylon sign? Al -Jaff: Correct. Conrad: Where is the low, or the proposed ground low profile business sign? Peterson: At the entrance. Conrad: Ah. Okay. Al -Jaff: It's identical to the pylon sign ... and without the horseshoe. Conrad: And where does that rest? Is that off of TH 101? Al -Jaff: It's off of TH 101. Conrad: Okay. Peterson: What's regulation on lighting of the pylon sign? Can it be lit? Up lit? It can't be back lit, or it can be? Al -Jaff: Back lit. It cannot have lights shining... Peterson: And this one is proposed to be back lit? Al -Jaff: Right. Peterson: Pylon sign. And Ladd earlier you made a comment, Sharmin if you can speak to this. As I drive out there, you know the stable and a good portion of the kennel had a clear visible sight lines from TH 212. I mean it's very prominent and I'm trying to ascertain whether or not when you said that the standard wouldn't be seen, I'm not terribly convinced that it wouldn't be because it's like a beacon up there. The stable. I don't know whether or not going, the standard wouldn't be seen. I guess Sharmin, at least from your experience and Kate maybe from yours, is that definitely the case that they will be too far away to see? If we kept within the minimum as set forth by the code. Aanenson: Well, to be honest the horse stable got moved a little bit from the original site plan approval. Due to some wetland delineation, grading issues so it's probably more visible than what we originally led you to believe. Can you see it now very clearly? Yes. If they put a wall band around which is one of the proposals, will you be able to see that from the highway? It'd be pretty small. The banding that they're proposing is 14 feet in the air... Two feet high. I'm not sure. E Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Peterson: But it's a question mark. Okay. Conrad: How far back is the building off of 169? Al -Jaf. . ...200. Peterson: On the edge of being seen. Conrad: If you're a ... this would help. Is the pylon sign a double faced? Is it double faced? But I also heard the word back lit. It is? Okay. But the materials are what? Al -Jaffa The plastic... Peterson: Other questions for staff? Would the applicant or their designee wish to address the Planning Commission this evening. If so, please come forward and state your name and address please. Ed Dousette: Hi there. I'm Ed Dousette ... Signs. I designed the signs. I'm president of the company and I guess I can help explain some of the rationale. What decisions were made and why. So in terms of the pylon sign, what we've done is internally illuminated the sign. We have lexan faces. Aluminum can steel poles and the horseshoe logo will be non lit. The purpose being it's just to give us as much of a printing or the lettering, the largest size we can possibly get so it can be seen. You're approximately looking at about a 15 inch to 18 inch letter on Paws, Claws, Hooves Boarding. And going down, that's 212 at the rate of speed, if we went down to say a 24 inch or 24 square foot sign you'd probably be working at about a 6 to 8 inch letter which would make it at that rate of speed. It would literally be a waste of time. The other thing is coloration will be the wood tone effect which will not make it right but you will get your contrast so we're still trying to keep in the theme of what business is and still blend with the natural wood effect. And I guess if there's any more questions about the pylon sign, go for that. And then we can move into the next. Peterson: What colors are we talking about for the lettering versus? Ed Dousette: We're talking a wood tone. A light wood. Imagine if you will an oak. A grained oak, light versus a dark oak stain. That's where the contrast is going to come in from. Peterson: ...is as a wood tone also. Ed Dousette: Yes. I'm sorry. They're aluminum but they're going to be painted wood tone. Be prime painted wood tone. They're not out there. The poles will be steel because it's ineffective if we put aluminum for the type of strength that you're going to need. All other components will be aluminum because I don't like rust basically. Once I put them up I don't want to deal with them again for a while. 10 Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Sidney: That brings up a point. How often will you have to repaint the sign do you believe? Ed Dousette: Well we use a two part primer, mathew system and then we use three coats of acrylic enamel. Sidney: So that's practically a sign in itself. Ed Dousette: I mean basically what you're looking at is about a car finish. You take this one is going to take a lot more, more in labor intensive just to get your graining effect in there. But it's kind of a neat sign so we decided we'd do it. Sidney: Then the drawing, that seems to show that there's depth to the sign. Do you actually get that effect from your painting? Ed Dousette: You'll get that from your painting. It's called a drop shade effect. By just highlighting the back edge of the letter you're going to get your depth effect out of the light. Peterson: Other questions? Thank you. Ed Dousette: Oh I do have one. While we're all here. In the staff report, basically what I did when I put out the entry sign ... entry sign, it's just a matter of expediency. They have, and I show an entry sign where it's going to be for the sign criteria. At this point in time we may, I mean I guess I would like to have the option to have creativity if we decide that possibly we would like to ... but just the idea that I don't want to be restricted... the horseshoe logo there as opposed to... Peterson: Okay. Ed Dousette: In tenns of, we have asked for 24 inch. Originally I asked for a sign band but the clients have mentioned that possibly they may want to stack. The overall square footage will not change but put Paws and Claws on one line and Hooves Pet Boarding on another line... Sidney: So what are you showing us then? Ed Dousette: I guess what I'm saying is, in terms of a sign band, at some future point in time it may not want to be a sign band ... all the way along the building. The Council to think that we're going to be locked into the sign band is used from the industry... Sidney: So you're just kind of giving us. Ed Dousette: Basically all I'm saying is I'm not going to use anymore square footage than what I've already committed to. It's just how I'm going to present it. Sidney: And I guess tonight all we're dealing with are these two signs so. Ed Dousette: Okay. I'm just trying to. 11 Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Peterson: And Kate, can't we just deal with the pylon sign tonight. That's really what. Aanenson: Well, what he's saying is true. As long as ... and not a roof sign. So if they stack the letters-puts the logo, that's fine as long as it doesn't go up towards the roof and there's criteria where you can locate that. But if we stay within those framework... Conrad: Mr. Chairman, how can we react to something that's that loose? Peterson: That's where I'm coming from. I'm prepared to, at least voice my opinion on the pylon sign this evening but the others I'd like to see back. We can separate the two issues. Aanenson: Yeah I guess, you Sharmin covered them in the conditions as far as the individual letters... criteria. As far as what can be on the sign. The name and the logo and it appears like the horseshoe is kind of a logo. If they stack them, that still meets our ordinance. Unless you, that's permitted given the... change from the theme... And as far as the monument sign, if they Put the logo on the top of that, although it still exceeds the 5 foot height... Conrad: So by the code, they could take, they could stack the sign band into three or four Aanenson: If they can stay within the area and it doesn't exceed the roof. Conrad: Right. Aanenson: We've indicated that to them. I'm not sure, they could stack it the exact same... Conrad: And we allow stacked sign bands? That doesn't seem like the way I would want a sign, to be honest with you. If I get back... Aanenson: A perfect example is one that ... the arched look. Al -Jaff: Body, Spirit and Mind. Aanenson: But there's different creations... involved in some of that. As Sharmin has pointed out, what the square footage is ... 24 square feet so we've calculated the area off. Again what we don't want to do is have it ride up along the edge of the roof ...area of the roof line of the sign. I mean if you feel like this is deviating significantly, we think that what they've indicated that it ... fall within, it didn't, we'd have to bring it back. The sign band... You can leave that out. That's fine. If you'd like to see that portion back. The sign band. Peterson: ...discussion period. This item is open for a public hearing. May I have a motion to open it and a second please. Brooks moved, Sidney seconded to open the public hearing. The public hearing was opened. 12 Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Peterson: Anyone wishing to address the Planning Commission tonight, please come forward and state your name and address please. Seeing none, may I have a motion to close the public hearing and a second. Conrad moved, Sidney seconded to close the public hearing. The public hearing was closed. Peterson: Discussion. LuAnn. Your thoughts please. Sidney: I guess I understand better about the square footage of the internally lighted sign. It's about 55 square feet and then you have the additional logo at the top so indeed I think it's you know a modest sign for the location and the size of the buildings. I looked at the design. At first I went goodness. Then I know what the buildings look like currently and I was a little confused by kind of the rustic nature of this sign compared to a metal building and I'm wondering a little bit, you know I wondered a bit about the decision for this type of design. I guess when I'm thinking about it more, I guess I don't have any real problems with it. I presume that's a part of the whole kind of logo that is going on letterhead and carried on through the building. So I guess I don't really have a problem with the sign after thinking about it. I'd like to hear from other commissioners as well. Peterson: Ladd. Conrad: I don't have any problems at all with the pylon sign. I think that's good for business. I think because of the setback we have to allow that. ...we have rationale for the next one that comes in and gets a variance. it seems like there's enough rationale to limit the size. So I'm comfortable with the pylon sign. I'm comfortable with the monument sign. The channel or the band sign is still, size wise it's not a big deal. I guess my preference, I wish they'd duplicate the design that they have on the other signs. Aanenson: I guess that's what I'm saying Ladd. That's what the ordinance says. They can't on Boarding, Call 999. There has to be a logo theme. It can't be something, we went through this discussion with Byerly's. Open 24 Hours. So there is limitations as far as what they can put on there. Conrad: Well that's really what, yeah. It's real loose right now. Even the sketch is loose and you know, it's not that I really care that this comes back. If they'd put the ... same thing that they have on their pylons, on the wall, I think that's fine. In fact that's more consistent and I don't like the, I really don't like the band sign to be honest with you. That's more downtown Chanhassen. Down there, I don't like it. That's none of my business however. I just, I'm kind of in this business so I know something about it. I wouldn't do it if I were you but it's none of my business. If staff assures us that they have total control on the band, then I'll get it out of here. Peterson: Thanks. Allyson. 13 Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Brooks: I really have no problems with the sign. I think it's probably about the right height to be able to see it from Trunk Highway 212 and I don't think this one's a big issue. Peterson: I guess I do have a couple problems. With as it relates however to the size and variance, I'm comfortable with that and the other signs, of how they're potentially going to change within the parameters, I'm comfortable with. What I'm a little bit uncomfortable with is really the style and I guess I'm uncomfortable primarily because of this is going to be really the first view of Chanhassen that people coming up from 169 will see. I look at the sign, the sign to me doesn't fit the rest of the building. When you said earlier, I've been driving at it, we made a decision however many months ago not to do a variance. Of not having wood on the structure so it is more of a like a contemporary feel with the metal and I think aluminum siding or whatever. Aluminum or vinyl. I don't think the sign necessarily fits the building and it is our first impression. It makes it look more rustic, western versus only the buildings are more contemporary midwestern style. I guess I'm uncomfortable with the design. I don't know whether or not we have the ability, how much control we have over the design and feel of it. I guess I'd ask staff for comments. How much discretion we do have. But I think it's in a very prominent place for the City and I think we have to take extra effort to be sure that it really sets the tone of what we want to when people enter the City. I know from my perspective it doesn't represent the tone that I'd be looking for. Aanenson: The ordinance does require architectural... I guess when we looked... Brooks: That meets the standard boarding theme. I don't know, I think that's. Aanenson: That's where we left it. Sharmin and L.. I think the problem that we're struggling with is the location of the building and the prominence. It's higher than... It's still set back 150 feet. But because it's... Peterson: I mean in many ways this sign isn't that substantially less than prominence of view than Villages on the Ponds is and we were talking about getting down the detail of what color of neon so I'm not uncomfortable by voicing my opinion. I just don't think it fits there. The buildings are much more prominent than we originally had expected and we thought there'd be much less vegetation loss. I mean it's a lot, a sight line there so. Brooks: I think Villages on the Pond though, I know my problem with that was that it reminded me of Disney World. The sign didn't fit what I felt was the function and the theme that we were trying to get at. Whereas this, I guess it's rustic but I think it fits the function of the property. I mean the building's may not be wood but it's got that kind of Wyoming, here are the animals and the horses feel to it. To me if you put a more modern sign, it would look kind of awkward for the business. I mean at least to give them credit, if I'm driving by and I see that the sign with the kind of feel to it gives me an idea of what the business there is. Peterson: All right, thank you. With that may I have a motion please. 14 Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Conrad: Mr. Chairman, you didn't express your opinion on the sign band. Peterson: I concur with you Ladd. I don't think it's necessary, particularly with the pylon sign being prominent. Again, it's at our discretion to vote on that aspect of it but my opinion is I think it would be overkill. And I have a problem with the discretion of stacking versus allowing them the latitude to have stacked versus band. Conrad: Okay, I'll make a motion the Planning Commission recommends approval of sign plan #97 -1 on the plans dated July 18, 1997. It probably should be by plans number... With conditions 1 through 12 per the staff report and I'll add in a condition 13. That will require the applicant, this is probably required anyway but it just reinforces that any changes in the sign band must be reviewed by staff. Any significant alteration be brought back to the Planning Commission. Peterson: Is there a second please? Brooks: I'll second that. Conrad moved, Brooks seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval of Sign Plan #97 -1 as shown on the plans dated July 18, 1997 with the following conditions: Both buildings (commercial kennel and stable) shall share one monument sign. One monument sign per lot. Monument signage shall be subject to the monument standards in the sign ordinance. 2. Both buildings (commercial kennel and stable) shall share one pylon sign. One pylon sign per lot. The sign shall be subject to the dimensions and location proposed by the applicant. 3. Wall signs are permitted on no more than 2 street frontages. The letters shall be located within the designated sign band. 4. All signs require a separate permit. 5. The signage will have consistency throughout the development and add an architectural accent to the building. 6. Consistency in signage shall relate to color, size, materials and heights. 7. No illuminated signs within the development may be viewed from the residential section north or west of the site. 8. Only back -lit individual letter signs are permitted as wall mounted signs as specified on the proposed plans. 9. Individual letters may not exceed 2 feet and logos may not exceed 30 inches in height. 15 Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 10. Only the name and logo of the business occupying the unit will be permitted on the sign. 11. The applicant must obtain a sign permit prior to erecting the signs on site. A detailed sign plan incorporating the method of lighting, acceptable to staff should be provided prior to requesting a sign permit. 12. These conditions shall be recorded with Carver County and added as an addendum to the site plan agreement. Staff will prepare the agreement which must be signed by the applicant. 13. Any changes in the sign band must be reviewed by staff. Any significant alteration shall be brought back to the Planning Commission. All voted in favor, except Peterson who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 3 to 1. Peterson: And the reason for the opposition is going back to the comment is I just don't think it's architecturally appropriate for the area. OLD BUSINESS: Peterson: Old business Kate. Aanenson: The last City Council meeting on 7/28 was actually fairly light as far as planning items. On the consent was the final PUD and final plat for the Arboretum Business Park, formerly known as Gateway. It's now called Arboretum Business Park. So they're underway and... Also on 7/29 there was a neighborhood meeting regarding the proposed... and there may be a follow -up to that... Later in August, scheduled for September 3` Planning Commission. Also on the 20` we'll be doing the comprehensive plan. Natural Resources element. Autumn Ridge, which is the property on Galpin ... Highway 5. Across from the school. That's being replatted. Sidney: What does that mean? Aanenson: Well what they did is came in with a little bit different product... and they changed the lot lines so the product fits in better ... this area of TH 101 and 169... Oh, one other thing. The City Council... looked at, took an opportunity to drive around and look at ... which reminds me the August 20` meeting we are starting public hearings is noticed for 8:30 so for the that first hour, if you can get here, we're going to take that opportunity and do some driving. Drive around the city and look at projects. See what's happening. Sidney: Who's driving? Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Aanenson: Don't ask. I did good last time. So if we need two vans, whatever we'll do that but ... get out and look at the projects. If there's any special requests, let me know. We'll try to put it... Brooks: I'm going to be gone. I'll miss that week. That's the week I'm on vacation. Aanenson: Okay. And we'll be back in at 8:30. We're going to have.. Sidney: I don't know if this is the right thing to ask but I saw on the list, a joint City Council/ Planning Commission meeting. Aanenson: That was, has not been scheduled. They're talking about that with affordable housing. This is something that, ongoing issues that we've kind of programmed in our work. I just wanted to bring you up to date where we were on that. We had submitted a request for our comprehensive plan, Met Council. The Bluff Creek, I've scheduled that for the September 3` We're holding that up. We're waiting for the data disk that has all the GIS information that we created for Bluff Creek. That was the consultant. That took a little while. City Council Planning Commission regarding affordable housing has not been scheduled yet. That's something we will do. And then we're also still working to let you know the status of some of those. That's all I had. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Conrad moved to note the Minutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated July 16, 1997 as presented. OPEN DISCUSSION:, Conrad: The Minutes of, the note we got from Todd Hoffman in our kit. Recommendations of the Park and Rec. I like to attend our meetings. And I'm just going to express a comment and it absolutely can't be taken any place but their recommendation on the Paul y/Pony /Przymus site. I knew that would happen because it's an easy decision. The neat thing about a community, or downtown is buildings and it's up front and it's closing in the main street. It seems like an easy solution to put a park someplace. Especially when a building has been taken down. I really disagree with this. Turning it into a park and I just want to be on record as saying that. I don't have a better alternative right now but I do know what downtowns look like and we have parks in other places and I fail to see the rationale. And I have not been involved in the logic of this and the economics of this so I'm saying this in a vacuum but in concept for what I see downtown, this is not it. Aanenson: I appreciate those comments. Actually there was a proposal slated for that corner. That's how the staff felt. We wanted to warm that corner up. Make it an entrance to downtown to really make you feel like you've arrived somewhere. And the HRA did have that project out to bid and a developer did do something, was actually had residential... really exciting building. Just so you know, I'm working on some design concepts or some ideas of what that district... so you'll be seeing that. I don't think, the Council's still studying that but I appreciate your comments. 17 Planning Commission Meeting - August 6, 1997 Conrad: Way to go. I'm impressed that you're doing that because it just, this doesn't make sense. Aanenson: Well I think, you know I think you can still keep the historical element there for some sentiment. How you do that but, Victoria's got some ideas of...maybe it's a style issue. Architectural kind of thing but again it's a sense of arrival that we wanted to... Conrad moved, Brooks seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 8:12 p.m. Submitted by Kate Aanenson Planning Director Prepared by Nann Opheim