3. 2011 Street Imp Project: PH and Auth Prep of Plans and Specs0
CITY OF
CHANAASSEN
7700 Market Boulevard
PO Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Administration
Phone: 952.227.1100
Fax: 952.227.1110
Building_lnspections
Phone: 952.227.1180
Fax: 952.227.1190
Engineering
Phone: 952.227.1160
Fax: 952.227.1170
Finance
Phone: 952.227.1140
Fax: 952.227.1110
Park & Recreation
Phone: 952.227.1120
Fax: 952.227,1110
Recreation Center
2310 Coulter Boulevard
Phone: 952.227.1400
Fax: 952.227,1404
Planning &
Natural Resources
Phone: 952.227.1130
Fax: 952.227.1110
Public Works
1591 Park Road
Phone: 952.227.1300
Fax: 952.227.1310
Senior Center
Phone: 952.227.1125
Fax: 952.227.1110
Web Site
www.ci,chanhassen.mn,us
MEMORANDUM
TO:
FROM:
DATE:
Paul Oehme, Director of Public Works /City Engineerq.
Alyson Fauske, Assistant City Engineer all,,
January 24, 2011
M allor
SUBJECT: 2011 Street Improvement Project No. 11 -01: Public Hearing;
Authorize Preparation of Plans and Specifications
PROPOSED MOTION
"The City Council is recommended to order the preparation of plans and
specifications for the 2011 Street Improvement Project 11 -01.
City Council approval requires a simple majority vote of the City Council
present."
BACKGROUND
At the October 11 2010 work session, staff reviewed with Council the proposed
2011 Street Improvement project areas.
On October 25, 2010, the City Council authorized the preparation of the
feasibility study.
Staff held a neighborhood open house on December 8, 2010.
On December 13, 2010, the City Council accepted the feasibility report and called
the public hearing.
Staff held a neighborhood meeting on January 12, 2011 to discuss the proposed
Timberwood Drive /Stone Creek Court street connection.
Chanhassen is a Community for Life - Providing for Today and Planning for Tomorrow
2011 Street Improvement Project 11 -01
January 24, 2011
Page 2
Lake Ann
HIG
m
Lake Susan
Overview
This year's proposed street project includes three areas which generally include the Timberwood
Drive neighborhood, Santa Vera Drive area and West 78 t11 Street area from Powers Boulevard to
Market Boulevard. Approximately 2,000 feet of trails is proposed to be resurfaced along the
Highway 5 corridor and in the Stone Creek neighborhood. The project also includes expanding
the south parking lot at City Hall to accommodate 12 additional parking stalls.
Purpose and Need for Street Improvement
The streets proposed for rehabilitation were selected based on the pavement condition scores and
site investigations. These streets can no longer be maintained cost effectively with minor
maintenance techniques such as seal coating. The streets in general have deteriorated, because of
the age. The potholes and other pavement problems present have created poor driving conditions
and have weakened the subgrade soils. The pavement condition indices are shown on the maps
below; a score of 100 represents a new street and 0 represents a completely deteriorated street.
Pavements between 45 and 65 are generally considered needing a rehabilitation or overlay.
Streets in this condition range should be rehabilitated at this time then wait until the street
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2011 Street Improvement Project 11 -01
January 24, 2011
Page 3
condition gets much worse. Waiting much longer, the streets would most likely deteriorate more
rapidly and cost more to make improvements in the future. If left unimproved, the streets would
most likely need to be reconstructed and would require a greater assessment. The City's
pavement management plan has identified streets for improvements over the 10 years which are
currently being programmed and planned for. If projects are delayed, they would most likely not
be proposed for improvements for at least another 10 years. Delaying projects will cost more in
the future, create more complaints about the condition of the roadway, and create more patch
work and cost for the Public Works department.
Proiect Area #1: Urban Commercial
This project area consists of 0.71 miles of streets within the western portion of the downtown
core. The projected PCIs range from 17 to 71 within this project area, however staff
recommends a mill and overlay is warranted on the roads with higher PCI's since these segments
are collector roads. The streets segments with the lower PCI's are not collector roads and would
benefit from a mill and overlay. The average PCI for the area is 44 which is within the general
guidelines for overlays.
A 3" mill and overlay is anticipated on W. 78 Street and a 2" overlay on the side streets.
Included in the project would be new loop detectors at all the signalized intersections. Some
damaged curb and gutter will also be replaced.
Soil borings for this project area indicate that there is between eight and nine inches of
bituminous over 17 to 19 inches of gravel and one foot of sand.
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2011 Street Improvement Project 11 -01
January 24, 2011
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Proiect Area #2: Urban Residential
There are approximately 1.07 miles of streets within this project area.
The project generally consists of replacing damaged and settled curb, repairing severely
distressed pavement areas, edge milling the streets and paving a 2" overlay.
The soil borings indicate that there is between four and eight inches of asphalt and over six to
eight inches of gravel in this area.
Drainage improvements to the intersection of Kerber Boulevard and Santa Vera Drive and at the
end of Saratoga Drive cul -de -sac are also proposed.
The bolts to some gate and hydrant valves should be replaced at this time. It's thought some of
these valves may experience problems in the near future because of the age of the system and
soils condition.
Staff proposes a separate assessment roll for Santa Vera Drive west of Kerber Boulevard since
the area is all multi- family units.
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2011 Street Improvement Project 11 -01
January 24, 2011
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Proiect Area #3: Rural Residential
Staff proposes that a full depth mill and overlay be performed due to the condition of the streets.
The millings of the streets would be used as aggregate base. A 3" pavement section would be
placed.
At the December 8, 2010 neighborhood meeting,
some residents inquired about replacing the gravel
shoulder with concrete edging. Concrete edging
differs from traditional curb and gutter in that there
is no curb, only a gutter section. Staffs estimate for
this work is approximately $102,000. One hundred
percent of this cost would be assessed to the
benefitting property owners, which equals an
additional assessment of $2,700 per unit.
Staff presented the concrete edge option at the
January 12, 2011 meeting. Based on feedback
received from the meeting, emails and phone calls,
few residents want the concrete edging therefore the
concrete edge is not included in the project scope.
At the December 8 th open house, staff introduced
the proposal to connect Timberwood Drive to Stone Creek Court. These streets were not
connected when the Stone Creek development was built due to neighborhood opposition.
Staff invited the Timberwood residents and the four homes adjacent to Stone Creek Court to the
neighborhood meeting on January 12 to further discuss the issue. Approximately 30 residents
representing 23 properties attended. A copy of the information distributed at the neighborhood
meeting is attached for your reference.
As communicated at the meeting, connecting these streets stems from the following:
The street connection is consistent with the City's 2030 Comprehensive Plan which
shows this area as a transportation "system deficiency" from a system connection
standpoint. The narrative states that "a connection would permit the residents of
Timberwood Estates to access the Bluff Creek trail system" and "a connection could
provide a secondary access to Timberwood Estates for residents and emergency
vehicles ".
2. Section 18 -57 of the Chanhassen City Code states "the maximum length of a street
terminating in a cul -de -sac shall be 800 feet ". Timberwood Drive is approximately 3,800
feet long. Timberwood Drive was constructed before this section of the City Code was
adopted; however staff considers current standards when proposing future projects to the
City Council.
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2011 Street Improvement Project 11 -01
January 24, 2011
Page 6
3. Promote a sense of community by connecting neighborhoods within the City.
The City obtained the services of a traffic consultant to provide an analysis on the impact to
traffic volumes should the street connection occur. A copy of the analysis was provided to the
residents at the January 12 meeting and has been posted on the project website. The memo is
attached to this memo for reference and is summarized as follows:
Location Existing Volumes Projected Volumes
(Estimated)
Timberwood Drive near the
Galpin Boulevard intersection 370 vehicles per day 270 vehicles per day
Stone Creek Court near the 30 vehicles per day 170 vehicles per day
Stone Creek Drive intersection
The estimated existing and projected volumes lie below the Metropolitan Council threshold of
1,000 vehicles per day on a local public street.
The speed limit on these local streets is 30 mph. The following is speed trailer data on
Timberwood Drive over taken over the past few years:
Date
50th Percentile
85th Percentile
April, 2007
27.0 mph
32.0 mph
May, 2007
28.3 mph
33.8 mph
June, 2007
28.8 mph
33.4 mph
April, 2009
27.1 mph
31.8 mph
May, 2009
26.9 mph
32.0 mph
June, 2009
26.2 mph
30.7 mph
Half of the traffic travels at or below the speed indicated in the 50 percentile. Likewise, 85% of
the traffic travels at or below the speed indicated in the 85 percentile.
At the January 12 neighborhood meeting, residents generally opposed the street connection for
the following five main reasons:
Vehicular Safety. Many residents believe that the traffic volumes at Timberwood
Drive / Galpin Boulevard will increase because drivers will prefer the more open feeling
driving through a rural residential neighborhood versus Stone Creek Drive. Drivers
would be drawn to drive on a street that doesn't have parked cars or sidewalks on it.
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2011 Street Improvement Project 11 -01
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2. Pedestrian Safety. Children that currently use the trail between the southern terminus of
Timberwood Drive and Stone Creek Court are not careful and could enter the street when
it is not safe. Additionally, there are no sidewalks along Timberwood Drive so pedestrian
safety could be compromised if traffic volumes increase on Timberwood Drive. The
Stone Creek trail and sidewalk system draw pedestrians from outside the Stone Creek
neighborhood, so additional pedestrian traffic on Timberwood Drive is thought to be an
issue.
3. Property Safety. A resident mentioned that no outlet streets are a deterrent to would -be
thieves since there is only one way to get in/out of the area.
4. Speed Issues. The open feeling of Timberwood Drive encourages speeding, which would
be exasperated should traffic volumes increase.
5. Changing the Character of the Neighborhood. Timberwood Estates is a large lot, rural
residential neighborhood with a different feeling and character than the Stone Creek
single - family residential neighborhood. The "neighborhood connectivity" would be
made worse if the streets are connected.
Other questions /issues that were raised at the January 12 meeting are as follows:
• Who asked for the street connection?
• Why bring up the street connection issue again? The answer was "no" when Stone Creek
was being developed, and the answer is still "no ".
• Who pays for the street connection?
• Residents would indirectly pay for the street connection via their property taxes.
• A through- street would devalue the Stone Creek Court properties by 10 %.
• If the streets are connected and Stone Creek Court is renamed to Timberwood Drive and
houses renumbered, the Stone Creek Court residents would be burdened with additional
cost to replace the imprinted bricks within their decorative mailboxes.
• When did the City Code change to limit the maximum cul -de -sac length?
• Are the streets that existed prior to the change in City Code required to meet the new
rule?
• Would the street connection change the drainage pattern?
• The aesthetics at the end of both cul -de -sacs needs to be improved.
• When will the project begin?
These questions were answered at the meeting. The Council will need to decide if the
connection should be made.
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2011 Street Improvement Project 11 -01
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Trail and Parking Lot Improvements
Trail and parking lot projects have typically been included in large street projects. By including
these projects in street projects, costs for these improvements are typically more competitive then
bidding out the projects separately.
Proiect Area #4: Trail Improvements
Along with overlay projects, the City has included
trail segments that are in need of repair or
replacement. The Parks Maintenance Department
used updated trail pavement condition data and site
investigation to determine the proposed trail
segments in the 2011 resurfacing project. The trails
proposed to be replaced are shown on the right.
Originally, the proposal included a segment of trails
along Highway 5 between Great Plains Boulevard
and Highway 101. This segment was deleted from
the project since MnDOT's proposed turn lane
improvements along Highway 5 may impact this
trail segment. Additional trails along the Stone
Creek corridor have been added in lieu of the
Highway 5 trail.
These trail segments show signs of significant deterioration and should be replaced. The budget
for this work is $75,000. These improvements will not be assessed.
Proiect Area #5 South East City Hall Parking Lot Expansion
This project is proposed to maximize the existing
parking lots at City Hall. Currently, the parking lots at
City Hall are over capacity when seniors and library
events are planned during the day.
City staff has tried to schedule events so parking
demand is spread out during the day; however these
initiatives have only been somewhat successful.
The proposed parking lot expansion would remove
most of the center median from the parking lot, move
the north curb line six feet to the north and reconstruct
the parking lot entrances. The work would allow for
12 additional parking stalls. The cost for the project is
w
fit,
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2011 Street Improvement Project 11 -01
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budgeted at $70,000 and would be funded by the Capital Replacement Fund. These
improvements will not be assessed.
FUNDING
Funding for the project is anticipated to come from several sources. Forty percent (40 %) of the
street improvement cost would be assessed back to the benefiting property owners per the City's
assessment practice. The remaining 60% of the street cost would be a City cost.
Funding Source Amount Budgeted
Assessments/Revolving Assessment Fund $1,200,000
Street Pavement Maintenance Fund $ 300,000
Capital Replacement Fund $70,000
$1,570,000
Each project area would have its own proposed assessment which is summarized below:
Project Area #1: Urban Commercial
Total estimated project cost: $490,988
40% assessed = $196,395.20
Assessment methodology: Benefitting Area
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2011 Street Improvement Project 11 -01
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Address
Benefittin Area ac
Estimated Assessment
960 West 78th Street
1.93 acres
$8,373
920 West 78th Street
1.48 acres
$6,421
900 West 78th Street
1.68 acres
$7,288
800 West 78th Street
13.25 acres
$57,483
7711 Market Boulevard
2.98 acres
$12,928
7812 Market Boulevard
0.455 acres
$1,974
7820 Market Boulevard
0.46 acres
$1,996
7824 Market Boulevard
0.95 acres
$4,121
7836 Market Boulevard
4.455 acres
$19,327
7900 Kerber Boulevard
2.2 acres
$9,544
7808 Kerber Boulevard
0.96 acres
$4,165
761 West 78th Street
1.22 acres
$5,293
851 West 78th Street
10.08 acres
$43,730
951 West 78th Street
1.38 acres
$5,987
975 West 78th Street
0.85 acres
$3,688
963 West 78th Street
0.94 acres
$4,078
Proiect Area #2a: Medium/High Density Residential (Santa Vera Dr. from Powers
Boulevard to Kerber Boulevard)
Total estimated project cost: $109,385
40% assessed = $43,754
Assessment methodology: Unit Benefit
Number of assessable units: 174.5 (includes 32.5 units for the Carver County CDA)
Estimated unit assessment: $251
Proiect Area #2b: Sinale- Familv Residential (local streets east of Kerber Boulevard)
Total estimated project cost: $285,224
40% assessed = $114,090
Assessment methodology: Unit Benefit
Number of assessable units: 75 (includes 3 units for the City Park and 5 units for the
apartment building at the corner of Saratoga Drive and Laredo Drive)
Estimated unit assessment: $1,521
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2011 Street Improvement Project 11 -01
January 24, 2011
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Project Area #3: Rural Residential
Total estimated project cost: $365,373
40% assessed = $146,149
Assessment methodology: Unit Benefit
Number of assessable units: 38
Estimated unit assessment: $3,846
Cost estimates include 5% indirect costs and 15% contingency. A 10% contingency was used
for the commercial area since the scope of work in this area is more clearly defined.
Staff feels this project will receive many very competitive bids due to the shortage of work
available for contractors to bid on.
Public hearing notices have been mailed to property owners.
SCHEDULE
The anticipated project schedule is as follows:
Approve Plans & Specs; Authorize Ad for Bid: February 28, 2011
Assessment Hearing Approve Bid: April 25, 2011
Project Construction Schedule :
Timberwood Drive Area and Trail Improvements May 1 l to July 1, 2011
W. 78 Street and Santa Vera Drive Areas July 11 to August 26, 2011
City Hall Parking Lot September 5 to September 30, 2011
RECOMMENDATION
Based upon the analysis completed as a part of this report, the proposed improvements, City
Project 11 -01, are feasible, necessary, cost effective, and will benefit the residents of this area
and the City of Chanhassen.
Attachments: 1. CIP Pages
2. Resolution
3. Resident Correspondence
4. Handout from the January 12, 2011 Timberwood Neighborhood Meeting
5. Stone Creek Preliminary Plat
6. Timberwood Drive Petition from 1992
7. Minutes from 4/29/1992 Special Meeting for Stone Creek Preliminary Plat
8. Minutes from 4/25/1994 City Council Meeting for Stone Creek 4th Final
Plat Approval
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Capital Improvement Program 2011 thru 2015
City of Chanhassen, MN
Project # ST -012
Project Name Annual Street Improvement Program
Account 91 601 -xxxx -4751
Account #2
Account #3
Account #4
Department Street Improvements
Contact Paul Oehme
Type Improvement
Useful Life Unassigned
Category Streets/Highways
Priority n/a
Description Total Project Cost: $9,700,000
annual project to rehabilitate and reconstruct streets in the City. Current 5 -year plan shows the following neighborhood areas:
tesidential 2011 - Timberwood Drive neighborhood, Saratoga, Santa Vera, Chippewa, Picha and Kerber (S of W 78th), Target lane and W 78th
Street (Powers Blvd to Market Blvd)
2012 - Greenbriar, Fir Tree, Elm Tree, Dogwood, Shore Drive and Maplewood Circle (Reconstruction)
2013 - Greenwood Shores and West 78th Street (Powers to Market)
2014 - Dartmouth Drive and Cypress Drive
2015 - Carver Beach area (south and west of Carver Beach Road)
Justification
the City uses a Pavement Management System to monitor the condition of the City streets. While proper preventative maintenance extends the
ife of the street and is cost effective, a street will eventually deteriorate to a point that further maintenance is no longer cost effective.
Zehabilitation projects extend the life of the street. In cases with utility or poor sub grade needs to be replaced or where streets have deteriorated
:o a point where rehabilitation will no longer be practical reconstruction of the street is necessary. A feasibility study is written to consider the
merits of the project and scope of work.
Prior Expenditures
3,200,000 I Construction
Total
1,500,000 1,700,000 1,200,000 1,100,000 1,000,000 6,500,000
Total 1,500,000 1,700,000 1,200 1,100,000 1,000,000 6,500,000
Prior Funding Sources
F T,2 - 00,0001 Assessment/Revolving Assess
Total Street Pavement Management
Total 1,500,000 1,700,000 1,200,000 1,100,000 1,000,000 6,500,000
Budget Impact/Other
Ibis project may decrease maintenance costs.
2011 20 2013 2014 2015 Total
2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 Total
1,200,000 1,700,000 1,200,000 1,100,000 1,000,000 6,200,000
300,000 300,000
107
Capital Improvement Program 2011 thru 2015 Department Street Improvements
lYl
City of Chanhassen, Contact Paul Oehme
Project # ST -018 Type Maintenance
Project Name Useful Life 7 -10 years
Pavement Management Category Streets /Highways
Account #1 420 - 0000 -4751 Account #3 Priority n/a
Account #2 Account #4
Description Total Project Cost: $2,165,000
Chis project will provide maintenance such as crack sealing, seal - coating and pothole patching for City streets. The projects will be determined
mnually based on the pavement condition index as generated by the pavement management program.
Justification
This will provide a centralized funding mechanism that will help reduce the effect on General Fund operating expenditures.
Prior Expenditures
F - 665,000 1 Maintenance
Total
Total 300,000 300,000 300,000 300,000 300,000 1,500,000
Prior Funding Sources 201 2012 2013 2014 2015 Total
2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 Total
300,000 300,000 300,000 300,0 300,000 1,500,000
665,000 Street Pavement Management 100,000 100,000 100,000 100,000 100,000 500,000
Total Tax Levy 200,000 200,000 200,000 200,000 200,000 1,000,000
Total 300,000 300,000 300,000 300,000 300,000 1,500,000
- Budget Impact /Other
These improvements will cost effectively prolong the life of the street so major improvements such as reconstruction projects can be delayed.
109
Capital Improvement Program
City of Chanhassen, MN
2011 thnt 2015
Department Municipal Buildings
Contact Paul Oehme
Project # MB -016
Project Name City Hall Parking Lot Expansion
Type Improvement
Useful Life
Category Engineering
Account #1 400 - 0000 -4706 Account #3 Priority n/a
Account #2 Account #4
Description Total Project Cost: $70,000
Expansion of the lower east parking lot at City Hall adding ten new spaces.
[ ( Justification
Additional parking capacity is needed for City Hall, senior center, library and park.
71
Expenditures
2011 2012 2013
2014 2015 Total
Construction
70,000
70,000
Total
Funding Sources
70,000
2011 2012 2013
70,000
2014 2015 Total
Capital Replacement Fund
70,000
70,000
Total
70,000
70,000
71
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
CARVER AND HENNEPIN COUNTIES, MINNESOTA
DATE: January 24, 2011 RESOLUTION NO: 2011-
MOTION BY:
SECONDED BY:
A RESOLUTION ORDERING IMPROVEMENTS & AUTHORIZING
PREPARATION OF PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE
2011 STREET IMPROVEMENT PROJECT NO. 11-01
WHEREAS, on January 10, 2011, the City Council received the feasibility report for the
2011 Street Improvement Project and called for a public hearing to be held on January 24, 2011 for
the 2011 Street Improvement Project, and
AND WHEREAS, ten days' mailed notice and two weeks' published notice of the hearing
was given, and the hearing was held thereon on the 24 day of January, 2011 which all persons
desiring to be heard were given an opportunity to be heard thereon.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED by the Chanhassen City Council:
1. Such improvement is necessary, cost - effective, and feasible as detailed in the feasibility
report.
2. Such improvement is hereby ordered as proposed in the Council resolution adopted
January 24, 2011.
3. Approves the feasibility study and authorizes City staff to prepare plans and specifications
for the 2011 Street Improvement Project No. 11 -01.
Passed and adopted by the Chanhassen City Council this 24 day of January, 2011.
ATTEST:
Todd Gerhardt, City Manager
Thomas A. Furlong, Mayor
YES NO ABSENT
Fauske, Alyson
From: Mike Kraus [mkraus46 @gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 9:08 AM
To: Fauske, Alyson
Subject: street improvement
Good morning Alyson. I live on Kelly Court just off Santa Vera. I drive this street every day. The only noticeable issues I
have noticed are pot holes where Santa Vera meets Kerber. However they were filled last year. How is the
determination made that this street needs that level of repair? In a time of tight budgets, why would you want to do this
verses other streets that really need attention?
Thanks,
Mike Kraus
942 Kelly Court
952 - 975 -9600
Fauske, Alyson
From: JOHN T DANIEL [mwdesignsolution @msn.com]
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 3:26 PM
To: Fauske, Alyson
Subject: Assessment Hearing for Street Improvements
Follow Up Flag: Follow up
Flag Status: Completed
Alyson:
I may not be able to make the public hearing for the street improvement project No. 11 -01 this Monday Jan 24th,
however I would like to share my opinion on this proposal.
I live on 7478 Saratoga Dr and at this time don't see an immediate need to proceed with a street improvement
assessment. My wife and I live on a fixed social security income but albeit $1,521 may not sound to much but even if
assessed over 5 years (60 months.) this creates a costs burden that we feel will only create a another financial
responsibily we will have difficultly to afford.
I suggest this project can be delayed 3 -4 years. In my opinion, I feel the street is not really in a dire need for
improvements.
Sincerely,
John Daniel
7478 Saratoga Dr
Chanhassen, MN 55317
952 - 934 -0206
Steckling, Jean
From: Clehme, Paul
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 3:23 PM
To: Steckling, Jean; Fauske, Alyson
Subject: FW: 2011 Street Rehabilitation Project 2011 -01 proposal to connect Timberwood Drive and
Stone Creek Court
Paul Clehme, P.E.
Director of Public Works /City Engineer
City of Chanhassen
7700 Market Boulevard
P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Ph. # 952- 227 -1169
email: poehme @ci.chanhassen.mn.us
From: Gerhardt, Todd
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 20113:15 PM
To: Clehme, Paul
Subject: FW: 2011 Street Rehabilitation Project 2011 -01 proposal to connect Timberwood Drive and Stone Creek Court
From: Laufenburger, Denny
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 1:43 PM
To: tahir khan
Cc: Gerhardt, Todd
Subject: RE: 2011 Street Rehabilitation Project 2011 -01 proposal to connect Timberwood Drive and Stone Creek Court
Tahir Khan -
Thank you for your note. I'm also forwarding this to our City Manager so that your comment becomes
part of the public record on this item.
I appreciate your interest in the activities of the community, especially as it relates to the Temberwood
area, and I will be consideing this in the course of my deliberation over the issue.
DENNY LAUFENBURGER
City Councilman, Chanhassen
612 - 327 -6800 (cell)
From: tahir khan [tkacro @yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 12:31 PM
To: Laufenburger, Denny
Subject: Re: 2011 Street Rehabilitation Project 2011 -01 proposal to connect Timberwood Drive and Stone Creek Court
Denny,
I am a resident in the Timberwood Estates development in Chanhassen.
The above mentioned proposal keeps rearing its illogical head every few years.
1
The last time it came up, the Council nixed it after much debate and feedback from concerned residents in both
Timberwood Estates and Stone Creek neighbourhoods.
The City will be opening itself to liability because if this connection is made, people (especially children)
will get hurt from the increased traffic.
Since Timberwood Estates does not have sidewalks, there is ongoing foot traffic on our roads.
Additionally, since Timberwood Estates is heavily wooded, there is a sizable population of Deer that live in the
woods all year. They are also using the roads at will and can cause serious car damage.
Any increase in Car Traffic on our roads is unnacceptable to a majority of homeowners here.
If you look at the attached Satellite picture of the neighbourhood, you will notice that residents of Stone Creek
already have a shorter route to Galpin than this proposed connection will afford them.
Additionally, the connection will offer only a few homeowners in Timberwood a slightly shorter route to
Galpin.
So my question to you is this:
If this connection is not going to make my life as a Timberwood resident and residents of StoneCreek any easier
why does the City keep bringing this dead issue up?
Yes I am aware of Fire and Police wanting to zip in and out via multiple roads but this connection is still not
justified. You might not know this but the City actually had an Easement for an Access road going from the
Acorn Lane ( ?) Culdesac to StoneCreekDr. Yet the City chose to vacate that easement many years ago.
At Timberwood, we are a Neighborhood Watch community.
Studies have shown that Single Entry/Exit neighbourhoods have reduced crime rates compared to communities
that have multiple roads going in and out.
Please help me and the residents of both Timberwood Estates and StoneCreek by putting a stop to this
nonsense.
Thank You for Listening to our concerns.
Tahir Khan
2040 Renaissance CT
Chanhasssen MN
CITY PROJECT 11 -01
TIMBERWOOD NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING
CM O
MMSEK WEDNESDAY JANUARY 12, 2011
Topics of Discussion
1. Potential street connection of Timberwood Drive and Stone Creek Court
• The street connection is consistent with the City's 2030 Comprehensive Plan (see attached).
• Section 18 -57 of the Chanhassen City Code states "The maximum length of a street terminating
in a cul -de -sac shall be 800 feet." Timberwood Drive is approximately 3,800 feet long.
• The City's traffic consultant forecasted the existing traffic volumes and provided the estimated
traffic volumes if the streets are connected (see attached). The projected volumes are within
the standards for a local street.
• Next step: the City Council will consider the street connection at the January 24th public
hearing.
2. Discuss optional concrete edge in Timberwood neighborhood
• Several residents expressed a desire to replace the gravel shoulder with a concrete edge to
improve the aesthetics of the road while maintaining the structural integrity of the road.
• A concrete edge would provide a structural edge to the road. The concrete edge would be
installed on both sides of all streets and would match the existing grades.
• Cost of concrete edge would be assessed 100% to the benefitting properties, which is estimated
at $2,700 per property, for a total estimated assessment of $6,546 ($3,846 for streets + $2,700
for concrete edging)
Existing street _
width Japprox. 25')
Optional 2' wide
concrete edge
Detail of concrete edging
Picture of finished product
Figure 7 -7: Existing System Deficiencies
City of Chanhassen • 2030 Comprehensive Plan TRANSPORTATION 17 - 9
existing Creekwood Drive is not designed or constructed to accommodate redevelopment traffic.
These connections will be constructed with the development of the properties in the area.
7.4.3 OTHER LOCAL STREET IMPROVEMENTS
1. Dogwood Road/Crimson Bay Road. Crimson Bay Road access to TH 5 is problematic due
to traffic volumes on TH 5 at peak periods. Access onto TH 5 from Crimson Bay Road is
anticipated to degrade more with increased traffic on TH 5. In the future, MnDOT may restrict
Crimson Bay Road to a "right -in /right -out." At the present time, Crimson Bay Road does not
connect to Dogwood Road. A future street connection will be needed to provide better access to
Crimson Bay Road.
2. Kiowa Trail /Springfield Drive: Back -to -back cul -de -sacs were installed at the north end of
Kiowa Trail and the south end of Springfield Drive. The pavement for the northern cul -de -sac
was installed to the project property line. A breakaway barricade was installed to prohibit thru
traffic. The cul -de -sacs were intended to be temporary until either area residents petition the City
to open the connection or new Highway 212 is constructed.
3. Nez Perce /Pleasant View Road Connection: During review of the Vineland Forest plat, it
was evident that a connection between Nez Perce /Lake Lucy Road and Pleasant View Road was
warranted since there was no north /south connection between Powers Boulevard (CSAH 17)
and Lotus Lake. Improved access is needed for local trips and to ensure the adequate access
for emergency services. It was determined that the Pleasant View Road intersection should be
located as far west as possible at the Peaceful Lane intersection.
4. Pipewood Lane and W 62nd Street. A secondary access to this area was discussed as part of the
plat for Hidden Creek Meadows. Cathcart Lane is a substandard gravel roadway that provides
emergency access to the area. With the future development of the farmstead, a public street will
connect these roadways.
5. Timberwood Drive /Stone Creek Court. The neighborhoods of Timberwood Estates and Stone
Creek are separated by approximately 30 feet of unfinished road. A connection would permit the
residents of Timberwood Estates to access the Bluff Creek trail system. In addition, a connection
could provide a secondary access to Timberwood Estates for residents and emergency vehicles.
7.5 - FUTURE TRAFFIC FORECASTS
The City has relied on the 2030 baseline traffic forecasts incorporated within the Carver County
Transportation Plan to determine the adequacy and appropriateness of the street and highway system
to accommodate the development that is expected to be in place by the year 2030. The forecasts
were prepared based upon projected population, households and employment data developed by the
City of Chanhassen and Carver County in conjunction with the Metropolitan Council. The 2030
baseline development assumptions are consistent with the Metropolitan Council's 2030 Regional
Development Framework (as amended through November 8, 2006). The population, household,
and employment information was distributed throughout the City to a refined network of Traffic
Assignment Zones (TAZ). The analysis assumed improvements to regional facilities only if they
were programmed. Other local improvements were assumed if they have been included in previous
7 -14 1 TRANSPORTATION City of Chanhassen • 2030 Comprehensive Plan
WE
THE TRAFFIC STUDY COMPANY
Technical Memorandum
To: Alyson Fauske, P.E., City of Chanhassen
From: Mike Spack, P.E., P.T.O.E.
Date: January 4, 2011
Re: Traffic Impacts of Connecting Timberwood Drive and Stone Creek Court
Per your request, this memorandum documents the amount of traffic expected to use
Timberwood Drive after it is connected to Stone Creek Court.
Traffic Forecasting
Traffic is forecasted along Timberwood Drive based on the methods and average rates published
in the Institute of Transportation Engineers (ITE) Trip Generation Manual, 8rh Edition. The ITE Trip
Generation Manual is a compilation of traffic data from existing developments throughout the
United States and provides an average rate of 9.6 vehicle trips generated on a typical weekday for
each single family home. Based on the area roadway network and existing traffic patterns, it is
believed traffic from the neighborhood has the following distribution pattern:
• 55 %to /from the south on Galpin Boulevard (to Lyman Boulevard)
• 20% to /from the north on Galpin Boulevard
• 25% to /from the east on Coulter Boulevard
There are 38 homes whose residents currently access Galpin Boulevard from the cul- de- sac'ed
Timberwood Drive and there are three homes whose residents currently access Stone Creek Court
north of Stone Creek Drive. There are approximately 20 homes along Stone Creek Drive who
would find it convenient to use Timberwood Drive if they were destined to the north along Galpin
Boulevard. The daily traffic volume estimates in Table 1 were developed based on the above
parameters and the travelsheds within the neighborhood.
Table 1— Dailv Traffic Volume Estimates
Timberwood Dr east of Galpin Blvd 370 vehicles per day 270 vehicles per day
Stone Creek Ct north of Stone Creek Dr 30 vehicles per day 170 vehicles per day
Traffic Impact Analysis
The physical capacity of a two lane road, such as Timberwood Drive, is estimated to be 8,000 to
10,000 vehicles per day according to calculations from the Highway Capacity Manual. However,
researchers at the University of California found significant degradation in quality of life for those
living along residential streets that carry more than 1,000 vehicles per day. For this reason, the
Metropolitan Council recommends in the 2030 Transportation Policy Plan — Appendix D:
Functional Classification Criteria that local streets carry less than 1,000 vehicles per day. The daily
traffic volumes will be well below the 1,000 vehicle per day threshold after the connection is
made.
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We the undersigned residents of Timberwood Estates are concerned about the extension of Timberwood
Drive as a through street into the subdivision of Stone Creek. We are petitioning the City of Chanhassen to keep
Timberwood Drive as a dead end street and to connect Timberwood Estates to Stone Creek with a bicycle path for
the following reasons:
1) Initially, the amount and speed of construction vehicles using Timberwood Drive as a thoroughfare.
2 The increased amount of traffic due to one - hundred forty new residents using Timberwood Drive.
Many families today have two . automobiles, thus a potential increase of two hundred eighty automobiles using
Timberwood Drive.
3) The speed with which the residents and non - residents ( i.e. - delivery trucks and visitors) of the
subdivision of Stone Creek would travel on Timberwood Drive. Despite the posted thirty mile per hour speed
zone, many automobiles now travel forty to forty -five miles per hour and this is their neighborhood.
4) The decrease in the quality of life in the subdivision of Timberwood Estates. Timberwood Estates
would no longer be a neighborhood or subdivision, but a thoroughfare. .
5) The decrease in the desirability of our property to potential buyers due to the change of the quality of
life and safety of living in Timberwood Estates.
6) Most importantly, the safety of our pets and children on a street where five times the current amount
of traffic is traveling at a higher rate of speed.
We, the undersigned residents, chose to live in a subdivision to have a peaceful neighborhood without the
noise, congestion and extreme threat to the safety of our families that heavy traffic brings. Please respond to this
sincere petition of concern.
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CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
SPECIAL MEETING
APRIL 29, 1992
Mayor Chmiel reconvened the City Council meeting at 8 :20 p.m., which was
continued from April 27, 1992.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilwoman Dimler, Councilman Wing, Councilman
Workman and Councilman Mason
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Paul Krauss, Charles Folch, Kate Aanenson, Scott
Harr, Todd Hoffman and Todd Gerhardt
(CONINUATION OF REZONING REQUEST FROM A2 TO RSF, AND PRELIMINARY PLAT REQUEST
FOR 141 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS, WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT, AND 8.2 ACRES OF PARK
AREA LOCATED NORTH OF LYMAN AND EAST OF GALPIN BOULEVARD JUST SOUTH OF
TIMBERWOOD ESTATES, STONE CREEK, HANS HAGEN HOMES.
Public Present:
dress
Richard Larson
Greg VanderVorste
Mark Foster
Karen 011son
Dave Maenke
Jim & Colleen Dockendorf
James R. Lano
Hans Hagen
Stan Rud
Greg & Julie Sorenson
Bonnie Murkowski
Mary Harrington
Jean Dtrand Rollins
Jeff Heinz
Brad Foley
8141 Pinewood Circle
8141 Maplewood Terrace
8020 Acorn Lane
8020 Acorn Lane
2041 Renaissance Court
2061 Oakwood Ridge
2060 Oakwood Ridge
941 Hillwind Road
2030 Renaissance Court
8121 Maplewood Terrace
2051 Renaissance Court
8140 Maplewood Terrace
2081 Timberwood Drive
2071 Timberwood Drive
2061 Timberwood Drive
O
Mayor Chmiel: If I remember correctly, we had this back here at Council with
our discussion. I think we've all had an ample opportunity to re- review the
entirety of what the project is and where we're going. I know none of the
Council members discussed anything with me ... project and I none with them and I
think everybody is independently come up with a conclusion. As to what that is,
we're going to eventually find out. So with that, let's just start with some
additional discussions on this proposal. I'd like to start with Mike.
councilman Mason: I think we all understand the issues here. I understand
where Timberwood's coming from about not wanting the road to go through there
and quite honestly if I lived there I'd feel exactly the same way. I think with
just one curb cut on the county road there, that poses a major problem. If we
can get another curb cut on that county road, I personally don't have any
trouble at all with dead ending or emergency barricade or whatever. I think if
we can't get another curb cut there, then I certainly would push to have
X
1
City Council Meeting - Apri7 '9, 1992
Timberwood come to a T intersection and have Timberwood end there and that would
be Boulder Drive or Boulder Trail or whatever we want to call it.
Paul Krauss: Would you like us to show you why we think there's only one
possibility for a curb cut there?
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, I think it'd probably be a good idea. And I did want to
get back from you too discussions with the... apartments as well.
Paul Krauss: Down here you have Lyman Blvd.. Lyman Blvd. is ultimately going
to be 4 lanes and a very high volume street. And according to the County
engineer, we certainly agree with him that there's absolutely no chance of
getting access point down there. Then you have an area over here where you have
to provide clear separation from this intersection. Here's your major
intersection. We need to provide distance back here for acceleration and
deceleration for turns that occur. And this intersections about in the right
place. I mean possibly you could move it down here a little bit but not very
much. Originally this plat had another intersection right over here and in
talking to, I think to the County Engineer, we got feedback from them that the
sight distance at that point wasn't too great. You have a hill situation on
Galpin that tends to tell you that this isn't a terribly safe spot to turn out.
Even if you did, you wind up with a short circuited loop that really leaves
everything else a dead end. So in terms of coming out on these roads, we don't
think that that's very likely. Or will really produce the results that we're
looking for. Now, we think that there's a long term possibility of another
entrance into this area. I can't tell you that it's got a 50% chance of
succeeding but we've been looking at it long term here today. Bluff Creek runs
through here and there's a very narrow area of residentially zoned property
between Timberwood and a creek. It's possible to extend that road somehow up
through there and ultimately there's going to be another ... to do something like
that. Come up and intersect with that. Provide another... access into the
neighborhood. There's a lot of issues with that though. Issues being this area
is not terribly deep and I'm not going to ... double row of houses in this case.
Houses on either side. That can lead, you'll have a major creek crossing here
and we're going to some great extent to make sure that there's a bridge over
TH 5 here and possibly another bridge here. It would be a shame to look at
putting a culvert over there. I doubt you can justify the expense of going with
a third bridge in the area. So that is a long term possibility. I don't know
that it's a real good one. But in terms of this particular site, there really
only is one point to come out on the county road.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you Paul.
Councilman Workman: How many acres is Timberwood?
Paul Krauss: Gosh, I don't even know.
Councilman Workman: 130 some. How many homes are in there? Are you ready for
me Don?
Mayor Chmiel: Yes, go ahead Tom.
2
City Council Meeting - Ap '. 29, 1992
Councilman Workman: I only ask because I know that Timberwood is trying to
depict their neighborhood as something that's a whole lot different than what
people would like to connect it to. 141 homes on 81 acres versus 37 homes on
137 acres is very different. They are very different. I think we all agree
with that. If we ran the second entrance to the north there as Paul had shown,
this really wouldn't serve a whole lot of homes. I mean this coming out here
wouldn't serve or really alleviate from here so something would have to come
through back here I would assume. But if we had just one entrance, one exit at
this time, really the rest of the neighborhood isn't just coming out on one.
They're kind of coming out on really two. Two main all the way through. And as
the last four lots or so that everybody's funneling onto one. And I understand
the problem with having just one for that many homes. That does create a
problem. I do promote the idea of two. And I maintain as does Mike that I have
a problem connecting it together. I talked to Kate today about it and some
other people. Not having this road at all stub into Timberwood. In other
words, not creating a dilemma that's been created as in Curry Farms and
elsewhere. In other words, leave no possibility for the connection. So two on
the west. I mean they're showing a dead end and a connection here on the east
end. I mean it's got to go somewhere if not across the creek and out to, I
think isn't there platted industrial?
Paul Krauss: No. What I think is more likely, it's more likely that that would
just be an extension of a dead end street that would serve the homes that would
occur in that area between Timberwood and the creek. The idea of another creek
crossing there, it's theoretically possible but it begins to stretch the
imagination a little bit.
Councilman Workman: I guess we're talking and every discussion that I've heard
has said, these people down here will never go through Timberwood. And I buy
that. So why put it in? Second argument being, and I had this humdinger of an
argument again today. You know the public safety issue. And we went through
this issue with the Kurvers Point. About the long cul -de -sac and will public
safety be able to get in. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. More likely than
not they'll be able to get in to these things but it just seemed to me that too
many coincidences have to happen all at the same time for there to be a
situation where public safety's going to have a serious problem. And maybe I'm
taking that too lightly. But all in the same hour, somebody has to have a life
threatening problem, a tornado or something has tie coming through and a big
tree has to fall over in the right direction to block the road. And I never
really got much clarification on that at the Kurvers Point deal that that was
really something that we should be worried about. I lean over to Richard and he
tells me, we'll get through. Don't worry about it. Will they have to and
that's where, as a City Council member, I've kind of had to think, well do I
have to worry about just about everything and lay awake at.night thinking about
those things? And I've opted for not.
Councilwoman Dimler: Not thinking about it?
Councilman Workman: If we get Hennepin County Commissioner pay, then I'll. But
that isn't to mock or mimmick staff's understanding of what they think we need
to do. I understand that. And they're very real concerns. I just don't
personally tend to hinge things on those as heavily as they do. Timberwood is
in and almost done. People live there. These people don't live here. That
3
City Council Meeting - April ', 1992
doesn't mean I don't feel for the developer but I think we can do some
modifications to make it work so that this group of homes is onto itself and not
affecting the neighborhood.
Mayor Chmiel: What modifications are you suggesting that we could make to that?
How can we do that?
Councilman Workman: Well, take Stone Creek Court and run it out and then bend
the west end over along the property line or wherever. I don't lay out plats
but.
Mayor Chmiel: You're making some suggestions but I'd like to know what those
suggestions are.
Councilman Workman: Well like I said, bring this piece. Now that's going to
leave a big lump and maybe they can work here, maybe they can't. But bring this
and bend it straight out along there or drop it through and ultimately connect
up to there. Rather than make it a cul -de -sac. And that takes care of or
serves the other half of that.
Kate Aanenson: There's a wetland right there.
Paul Krauss: There's a real pristine kind of a wooded wetland right over here
that we've assigned in the conservation area. You really wouldn't want to put a
road through that.
Councilman Workman: But we've got yards and lots in there. If you're telling
me it's impossible, I don't believe it. But we have a pristine pond and some
pristine trees. We've also got a neighborhood that's going to be changed.
That's where I've been directing some of my concerns. I can worry about the
pond, which I will. Or I can worry about the long term affect it's going to
have on the neighbors to the north and that's what I've done.
Mayor Chmiel: Tom are you saying, going and extending to the east from that
cul -de -sac with that road? Are you really saying taking Stone Creek and going
to the west and coming out on CR 18?
Councilman Workman: As a second entrance.
Mayor Chmiel: There would be two out on County Road 18.
Hans Hagen: Maybe I can shed some light on this. I don't disagree with the
residents... I heard you and I went back... What we tried to do after we came
up with the PUD and we felt that that wouldn't be a viable alternative for the
city, we laid out the roads to do two things. To stay away from the wetlands
and to preserve the forest as much as we could. That's really our mandate
because the city really mandates that so you have to start from there. And the
area that you've been speaking about which would be extending Stone Creek, as
it's named here, and rather than hooking the cul -de -sac down here, bringing the
road across adjacent to Timberwood is a difficulty because of two things. You've
got the wetland issue here and you've also got a very steep bank here and you've
probably got a 30 foot grade elevation from here to here. So going from this
location down to here, you've got probably 20 to 30 feet and when you do that,
4
City Council Meeting - Apr�l 29, 1992
obviously you end up taking all the trees out. That's why this road hooks down
around here to take care of the grade and be able to put the house pads in and
leave some trees between each house. And while the plat, as it's drawn here
shows a preserve area in here, it's our intent and we think we would be able to
maintain trees on the lot lines. Now not all of them will live but every
attempt will be made to do that. And that only works if you follow the contours
carefully. So the road layout seems to just meander around but it has, the
reason it meanders around is to save the trees. Now I think maybe there's
another way to accomplish what Timberwood is after. I totally agree that you
don't want traffic needlessly running through your neighborhood. Here's
Timberwood located here. The road system you see coming through Stone Creek was
the original layout that we had and that is no longer valid. That was a PUD.
But generally speaking, this major road's coming through here and wandering
through in about the same way. Now you'll notice that Timberwood Drive goes up
and circles around and goes north and actually even down south a little bit. So
that is a circuritous route. It would be much better if somebody was coming,
leaving Stone Creek. It could go back and glance at this route rather than
going north and then east and then down south and going out onto TH 5.
Remembering that there's a speed limit within your neighborhood. There's a
higher speed limit perhaps on Galpin. Well, I understand... but in any event,
we've got a different issue with regard to neighborhood speed traffic than you
do on Galpin. So if people drove the speed limit, you would be wiser if you
were in a hurry to get someplace, to take this route which is the most direct
going north on Galpin. Now to make it a little bit more complicated to get out
of Stone Creek. Rather than bringing Timberwood as shown in the original
drawing. We're bringing Timberwood up to here. This is the line, our property
line... And as has been suggested to the Council at the last meeting is to
bring Timberwood down and have a stop sign here so that it'makes it a little bit
more difficult to go through Timberwood. This would go out to Galpin. This I'm
suggesting goes to TH 5 but I understand that may be a difficult issue
because... I assume we can stop it right here at this intersection. What we'd
like to do is stop traffic to go this way so that we're making it difficult to
go through your neighborhood.
Resident: That stop sign wouldn't do it.
Paul Krauss: No, actually you'd want the traffic to feel a whole lot more
comfortable zipping out on Stone Creek rather than turning onto Timberwood.
Hans Hagen: You could take a right here and go north.
Mayor Chmiel: If we could just hold it so we can hear what he's saying. Thank
you.
Hans Hagen: You could add stop signs if the neighborhood decided to at this
location so you'd have a stop on the way through Timberwood which would slow
traffic. down. That might accomplish keeping the traffic speed down on
Timberwood for the neighbors but it would certainly, if you've got a stop sign
here and you've got a thru street going out to TH 5, the logical traffic flow
would be that way. Now, I think the other issue with regard to the thru traffic
for buses and for also your emergency. Well not as much emergency vehicles but
for buses and trash and that sort of thing. If you take a bus and go in here,
pick up everybody and then return and go out, you're doubling the number of
5
City Council Meeting - Apri' '9, 1992
trips you have with the bus and that's the same thing that's true with any
vehicles going on through so it would seem to me that logic would dictate that
you do permit school buses to go all the way through and you just reduce the
number of bus trips by 50: and the same thing is true with other delivery
vehicles that would be going through the neighborhood. So in all my years of,
25 years now of platting property and so forth, this is something that always
happens when there's an existing neighborhood and you bring another neighborhood
on and leaving this road was extended to the property so that it could connect.
That does make good sense and yes, it takes a bunch of moons to line up to have
that crisis where somebody can't get there but when that crisis does occur, then
you wish you would have gone the other way. But I do feel that by changing, by
putting the stop sign up at this intersection and by T -ing this intersection,
that you're going to get probably the best alternative...
Mayor Chmiel: Paul, did you have anything that you wanted to say?
Paul Krauss: Actually there is one thing we could add. Kate, why don't you
give the distances on that. We had some information that we didn't get a chance
to give you last night in terms of one of the prime reasons we think that most
of the traffic will naturally, by common sense, want to go out thru Stone Creek.
Kate Aanenson: What we just looked at, if this was going through Timberwood,
which is 3/4 of a mile from this point out. And the longest from the edge of
this ... other point out ... Stone Creek Drive and that will be half a mile and this
line ... 2 /3 of a mile.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Why don't you just leave that one up there. Richard.
Councilman Wing: Well I see two issues here, and I've tried to separate them
out. Number one is Mr. Hagen's development which I have no problem with and I'm
ready to get on with it. The other is Timberwood and I feel that Timberwood
people came in and they bought large lots intentionally. Isolated property
intentionally and I think that Timberwood deserves to be protected. They built
their neighborhood. It's kind of what we've called a little island and we've
argued about this and these two neighborhoods are very, very different. So in
my own thinking, I'm taking Timberwood out of this issue. I think they deserve
to be protected and kept away from this. So for my discussions I'm simply
taking them out of there and not worrying about them. Now on Stone Creek, I
think that if a piece of land is going to be platted, it has to stand on it's
own and it has to be responsible for it's own egress and entryways. I don't
think it's my responsibility to try and plat this project and I don't want to
get caught up in it. If that piece of property with 141 homes can't get cars in
and out, it doesn't have proper egress and ingress to the property, then I have
to suspect that maybe there's too many homes on that 81 acres and we have to
start relooking at the density that we've got there. I'm not suggesting that
and I'm not unhappy with the density but again to repeat myself on my opening
statement. I think Stone Creek has to stand on it's own. The last comment I
would make is the public safety issue and I think that in this particular
development as I'm seeing it, if there's only one way in and that one way
branches off into a maze of cul -de -sacs, that is a public safety hazard. We
don't have access to these properties and all it would take is one tree falling
down, as Tom mentioned but there aren't any trees anyway so that's sort of moot.
It will be 20 years before a tree's going to be big enough to fall over and
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City Council Meeting - Ar 29, 1992
bother us. But any calamity that should happen that would block off that
initial entryway and we don't have any way to get to the rest of that community
whatsoever so this development with this many homes, I'm going to suspect the
fire chief, speaking as one of the fire chief's or the fire marshall's going to
say nix. It is unacceptable to have only one entryway into this. It's going to
have to have two. But when I start again, Stone Creek has to stand on it's own.
Be responsible for it's own development and not rely on the Timberwood area to
give them that second access. So Timberwood's not in my discussion for the
future here.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Ursula.
Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. Since our last meeting, which wasn't that long ago,
I did drive out into Timberwood and I went to the end of the drive there and I
discovered that there is a huge amount of trees that would have to be cleared to
put the road through and there's also a creek there. Is that correct?
Paul Krauss: There's a flowage that would have to go, be routed under the road,
yes.
Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. I didn't know that before and I guess that does
kind of change my outlook on that particular opening. I also, you know think
that we need two entrances here for safety but as I thought about it, I began to
think why do we have to make Timberwood less safe in order to provide safety for
a new development? So I would kind of tend to go along with what Richard just
said. This Stone Creek has to stand on it's own without depending on Timberwood
to provide it with another access. And I think Timberwood is safe today and it
will be as safe tomorrow without that street going through there. But it's
Stone Creek that we need to be concerned about the safety. Then I have an
unrelated question as well and that has to do with the model homes that are
supposed to be ready by September without utilities in there but maybe we can
talk about that later.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. I guess I had, I received a call this evening. There
were some good issues that were brought up to me from that discussion. It was a
resident within Timberwood. Many things that I heard, concerns about speeds
within the development. I guess I charge each and every one of you to
respectfully watch your own speeds so you can bring that back down to where it
should be. 30 mph is basically what that road is designed for. And if it be
necessary, we can provide the kinds of protections that maybe you're looking for
but I don't like to see our officers write tickets on our own residents, or
anyone else. I don't think this is a police state. And if everyone has certain
numbers of children within that area, I think each of you owe it to yourselves
to police, as I said, yourself rather than us do it for you. I've learned over
the years and this right foot of mine probably has some lead in it, just like
you have in driving through your neighborhood. I find that if you've got a
cruise control, set it on 30. It's amazing how well it works. And I use that
driving in town. On the main street. In the neighborhoods and mine even trolls
down to 25 mph and I use it in a 25 zone. Never have to look at the speedometer
because I know exactly where it is once I set it. Just a word of advice. One
of the other things that I also heard was the fact that many of you have
indicated that you were made aware that there was not going to be an outlet from
that area or a connection. In discussions that I've had with a couple people in
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City Council Meeting - Apr 29, 1992
buying those properties, from what I've been told, everyone has been told that
there could very well be a connection through the neighborhood. I just found
that out yesterday in doing some more checking as I said we would do and
consider and think about other things. I'm sure that Mr. Hagen is not in any
particular position of saying I have to have that access into Timberwood and I
don't think he's going to take that position as I've just heard him say that
before as well. So some of the things that I really see is his proposal in
putting this residential development in there. I'd support it because of what
I've seen. This platting has indicated with the sizes of lots and you have a
vast different amount of sizes. From 15,000 square feet. As much as 33,000
square feet. So he's working with that particular piece of property I think
very well. Whether or not that access goes in there, I think we've stood more
behind Timberwood than we have in any other subdivision within the city. And
even during our preliminary stages of going through our comprehensive plan and
making the changes to accommodate you people, that's who we represent. But
sometimes when I look at the necessity of public safety. We're charged with
that and I want to feel comfortable with the public health and safety of this
particular connection of if the connection were to go through. I'm getting a
feel from Council, I don't see that right now. But even for your own concerns
and some of the concerns I have for your own properties, that is something that
has to be looked at and I did look at it quite strongly. And everybody feels
comfortable enough right now. Hopefully you'll feel comfortable enough if you
live there for the next 20 years or 30 years but in this changing world as we
have it, how many of us are going to still be here. I know I will because I'm
going to retire here. Very shortly, in about 2 months. But how often are we
all going to stay here? The job markets change. We make changes. We leave the
area. Once everyone leaves, is this going to be the best for the city and
that's what I look at again. So with just a few of those analyzations that I've
gone through, I'm ready to poll the Council for a motion regarding this
preliminary plat as well as the two other aspects of the platting. The wetland
alteration and the rezoning. If the desire by Council is to eliminate the
connection into Timberwood Estates, that should so be indicated. Whether or not
the Timberwood Estates name should be on there, because I'm sure the reason that
was done to have that connection into Timberwood. Possibly that should change
and that's strictly up to you. But with that, I would request a motion in
regards to this particular platting.
Councilman Wing: Don, just one clarification. For me to approve the plat, part
of the approval would be the requirement of two entryways. Is that correct? Or
would that be part of the motion, if desired?
Mayor Chmiel: Paul, do you want a clarification?
Paul Krauss: Yeah, I wish Roger were here tonight. I think .you're raising an
issue here because we've already gone on record telling you that we don't think
there are two good points to come out on the county road. This developer does
have an option to loop a street but you're considering precluding him from using
that option. If you then put the developer in the position where you're
insisting that he have two accesses but it's impossible to provide it, therefore
the property can't be developed, I think we have a problem.
Councilman Wing: Alright, I'll go along with the one but then the Fire Marshall
comes along and says that's not going to fly_
Pt
City Council Meeting - Apr''. 29, 1992
Paul Krauss: That's the situation we'll have. I mean we can reopen the book
and see what we can do but we did look at this intensively. We have conferred
with the County Engineer and we've pretty much eliminated those alternatives.
Councilwoman Dimler: Is there anything that can be done to that second side
that you said the.
Paul Krauss: The sight distance?
Councilwoman Dimler: Yeah, wasn't good enough. Can we do something with that
intersection there?
Paul Krauss: I honestly don't know. It probably would involve some major
reconfiguration of a street. Lowering of grades. Significant and you can't do
that just on a localized site. You've got to go half a mile up the road so the
grades match. You probably look at loss of trees.
Councilwoman Dimler: Is this a county road?
Paul Krauss: Yes.
Hans Hagen: The County did deny that other entrance.
Kate Aanenson: That's what went to Planning Commission were the two entrances
and the County said no. So we came back with the revised.
Councilman Mason: Mr. Mayor, two things. I have a little trouble with a
development has to stand on it's own. We're talking, then I think all of a
sudden I've heard some citizens accuse development of being patchworked. I
think if all of a sudden we're saying a site has to stand on it's own, then
we're creating patchwork. I also did hear a number of Timberwood people say
their first choice is absolutely no road through there and I've already said if
I lived there I'd feel the same way. I also did hear them say that if that
can't be done, can we please have a T intersection and Timberwood end at what is
currently now called Boulder Drive. I share your concerns about the public
safety issue also. I think if we approve this with one in and out, we're
essentially not approving anything and we're going to have to deal with it a
month or two from now anyway, is my opinion. And if the County has already told
us that two in and outs on CR 18 is not going to wash with them, I find us to
some extent, caught between a rock and a hard place on this one. And if that's
the case, then I think we need to take a little harder look at a T intersection
there. Where Timberwood and what's now called Boulder Drive come together.
Councilman Workman: If I can add to that. I guess it's, and I understand where
you're coming from. It's not my job to plat and I don't know out of which book
or which law or to what degree the County can say yes or no to an entrance
there. It would appear to me that where Stone Creek would come out, the
elevation is 981. If you go to the north, the next elevation I see anywhere
near there is 985. That's 4 feet. The next one I see is 968. So it drops
significantly there. So they're almost near the top of the hill. I guess if
not near it and so while I'm hesitant to, during a variance process to help
somebody design their garage for them, I guess I think the developer's kind of
getting a strong idea about what we want to do and that can either be worked out
9
City Council Meeting - April -1 , 1992
or it can't. I don't know that I'm convinced that it can't be. To say that it
absolutely can't. Roger Gustafson has made the decision. It's now in stone
down there at the County without Al Klingelhutz and everybody else looking at
it. I don't know. I guess I'm not a surveyor or other but I'm not convinced
that it can't be done.
Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor. What it basically boils down to is, being that it is
a county road. Carver County has of course jurisdiction over that road. Any
other agency looking to tie into that County Road has to get an access permit
from the County. If the County is not willing to grant that permit without
taking further action, legal action or whatever, you can't acquire the permit.
Basically as Paul's mentioned before, to try and cut that hill down to make the
sight lines feasible to provide a secondary access, one is that economically
feasible? Who would pay for it? I'm sure the County is not going to be willing
to pay for that. That's something that would have to certainly be considered.
It's not impossible but it would be a major task to do that.
Mayor Chmiel: Charles, do you know what the sight line was and what the given
problem is?
Charles Folch: The exact distance? I don't have that off hand what the exact
distance was. It's not too far down from the crest but that is the problem.
Kate Aanenson: If I could just add to that. The other issue that the County
raised was based on the volume of traffic, this space, they have a requirement
of spacing of entranceways and that also fell into too narrow of a gap there.
Spacing. With the volume of traffic. Conflicting turn movements.
Mayor Chmiel: If, and I'm not into designing either but if Creek Court were
looked at, that's probably better than 500 foot distance from the existing
verbage of Timberwood Road to Stone Creek and of course that would eliminate
that cul -de -sac there. But I don't know where Hans is coming from with that
part either.
Hans Hagen: I think the two issues you have are, one coming over the crest of
the hill here does not have good sight distance. We pull this out. So that's
one problem the County had. The other problem is the County has a minimum
distance between access points on Galpin Road. On this County Road. So they've
denied it based on that. So when we received that information, then we backed
off and made this a cul -de -sac. Because originally we had put this through.
When you get over to this point however, and you can see all these lines coming
down pretty close and for the public who isn't dealing with plats everyday, that
indicates there's a very sharp hill going down this so you've got a situation.
Actually we are peeling off the top of the hill as part of the grading program
but to pull a road back through here and I think it's probably a moot point
because you can't get out here anyway with your second access so it really
doesn't change anything but you can't pull a road down through here because the
wetland here. You've got a very sharp hill which is in grade and in order to
make that grade work you'd have to pull it down to a 7% or less grade and in
order to do that, you would really have massive grading and pulling all the
trees out. So we were trying to work with the environment. We thought quite
honestly when this road came down and T'd at this property, that typically that
should be pulled on through from a safety point of view. It isn't our company's
10
City Council Meeting - A it 29, 1992
point of view that that should be done. It's just that cities generally require
that so we just followed it through. So I think from an environmental point of
view, when you're talking about the trees and woods and all of you have talked
about those, and the wetlands. You've talked about those. The plat is
sympathetic to those issues. And so if we start out with the trees and we start
out with the wetlands and start out with the hills and the grades and work out
plat out and then come out with a safe intersection, it really ties you in. And
whether it's Hans Hagen Homes, you know. If we don't get this through, somebody
else is going to come back and do the same thing. You're kind of stuck and I
think the solution to your problem is not really devastating the forest or the
wetlands or creating an unsafe process out here because I think that's doing the
wrong thing. You're creating lots of problems there. The better issue is to try
and get the traffic not to want to go through your neighborhood. That's really
what the issue is. Now one other thing and I tried to explain it on the other
plat and I wasn't very good at it. But what we're proposing to do is to change
this road so the road does this. And now it goes through and this, Timberwood
comes down and stops here and there's a stop sign here so that's what I was
trying to explain. Actually there's a little difference than I'm showing here
but it's very close. Then we would change this name to Boulder Creek Drive, and
I think some of the neighbors brought up the fact that what happens if
somebody's looking for Timberwood Drive. They come to the first one on Galpin,
take a left and they're really trying to find somebody that's on Timberwood
Drive in Stone Creek. Well, we can resolve that by changing the name to Boulder
Creek Drive down here so they aren't going to look for Timberwood. So
Timberwould come down and stop here. That would keep your neighborhood
identified as Timberwood and not mix it up.
Resident: I'm confused with your logic. If you want to restrict traffic, which
we do through Timberwood, why put a road there?
Hans Hagen: That's fine with me. I have no problem. We don't have to do this
and I'm not arguing for it. You know we can block that off but then the issue
comes back, is it safe? Is it safe for you? Is it safe for us? I'm not going
to make that decision. That isn't my job. We can take and simply make this a
loop street. That isn't a problem with us but the question is, is it good for
you ultimately and is it good for the people that we're selling to here and from
a safety perspective, I would say this is not.
Resident: People keep talking here about the distance... The other night Paul
had mentioned that first, lower portion of Timberwood was maybe a little farther
away from ... than it needed to be. As well as north... Maybe some of those lots
on the north should be just pulled and the road should curve up more to the
crest of the hill. There are options there ... well it's going to fail. By how
much-and how much can you make it work? ... fails the test., Maybe another
proposal...that passes the test.
Councilman Workman: If in fact, if we make believe for a minute that we have a
road through there and the developer and staff are telling us that people aren't
going to really use that. Buses and the UPS guy. Then in fact what we have is
141 homes draining out one entrance and exit. That's in fact what we're telling
the people to the north. That is not safe. If we have one access here, it's
not safe. Forgetting the emergency vehicle argument for this point. That means
we've got everybody, because it takes so much more to go up through Timberwood,
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City Council Meeting - April 1 9, 1992
and so much more time, everybody and whatever trip they're going to take, is
going to come out this exit and I don't know who in their right mind would live
there with that kind of traffic unless this were in fact going to be used as a
purge valve out to the north. So we either have a very, and believe me, I'm
maybe giving the developer mixed signals. I think Timberwood would much rather
have this than a commercial and I agree that they do do nice work but it's a
difficult parcel. We're working very hard on what and how the environment on
this side of the creek is like but it is going to affect the environment on the
north side. I know it is and you can tell me that by making this connection
nobody's going to use it. It's just there for service vehicles and emergency
vehicles but then you're telling me that everybody's coming out this thing and
that is going to be a very, very unsafe one place to come in and out of this
neighborhood and 141 homes.
Councilman Wing: When I come home at night, I'm going to make the first turn
off of TH 5. I'm going to make the first left into Timberwood and roll through
that open land and those wide streets right into my home in the middle of this
to avoid having to come down here and wind through the whole thing.
Councilman Workman: I don't deny that it's not a difficult thing to lay this
all out with the contours and everything else. I'm not trying on purpose anyway
to be ignorant. If all the arguments that I've heard are that people are not
going to go up to the north and don't worry about it, then 141 homes are going
to empty out one spot. That's where I would piggyback on Richard's comment that
it needs to stand a little bit more, at least on it's own. And have that extras
one to the north and...
Resident: Are we free to make comments? No?
Mayor Chmiel: Not right now. Not yet.
Councilman Wing: Mr. Mayor, in regards to those comments. I can't believe we
could possibly hear anything we haven't heard already. I would ask you to
temper those. I want to go home. Thank you very much.
Councilman Mason: I'm almost to the point of being amazed at all this
discussion. If the County is telling us they will not, and maybe we need to
find this out 100%. But if the County's telling us we won't give you another
access there, what's the issue?
Councilman Workman: Whether or not 141 homes are going to empty out of one.
Councilman Wing: We should have one exit.
Councilman Mason: So you're saying then, if we only have one access there,
we're not going to let that road in there so therefore we're not allowing
development there and we have to buy more property.
Councilman Workman: No. I'm saying pretend that road is there. I'm being told
that people are not going to use that.
Councilman Mason: Right.
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City Council Meeting - Ar '1 29, 1992
Councilman Workman: That means 141 homes will have to come out this okay. But
in reality I know people are going to use it. Okay so, how many? Who in the
room can tell me how many of those homes? Is it half? So is that 70? Then
that does.
Councilman Mason: I'm not saying it's not going to impact Timberwood. I'm just
saying I think we're beating a dead horse. If the County is saying one access,
I don't know that we have any choice.
Councilman Wing: But is it the right choice to approve that? That's pretty
extreme. On the other hand, what we haven't looked at is taking some of these
upper lots and T -ing those into dead ends and then letting this half come out on
this one. Break the division into. In other words, take the northern lots.
This whole group of northern lots and connect them into Timberwood. Dead end
and then let this other half drain out onto...
Resident: I did suggest that at the Planning Commission.
Councilwoman Dimler: I didn't hear what Richard said.
Mayor Chmiel: Sorry, we were trying to have some discussions here. I hate to
say I wasn't paying attention.
Hans Hagen: Your Honor, maybe I can help in one other issue. I know it's
cumbersome but we are putting a right turn lane in here. The County requested a
right turn lane put on Galpin right here so the people would come out, the bulk
of the traffic would be going north. So people would come up here and take a
right. I think the other issue is at some point there is a cut off and nobody's
denying that somebody will not go through Timberwood. What we're trying to do
is suggest making the most difficult route and I think if you drew a line here
somplace and said it's illogical for people to back track and go north. So the
question is, how many lots in Stone Creek. All 141 wouldn't prefer to go
through Stone Creek, or through Timberwood rather. There is some point and
maybe this lot would choose to go this way. That's possible. These 4 lots here
and there's some in here but it would seem to me that you could draw a line,
some weave through here. These logically would have a shorter route going to
the west and then to the north or south. And some of them might go through
Timberwood. That's possible. Certainly. But we aren't loading 141 people
through Timberwood. We are only take those that might find it more convenient
to do that. And the question is, you've got 37 home sites in 90 acres or there
abouts. If you add another 20 homesites, it probably wouldn't affect your
neighborhood a great deal. Granted, you wouldn't want one more. That's why you
moved there but the issue is some reasonable approach. Because it won't die
with our project. Somebody else is going to come back in and it's a question of
if this is the best. Thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Potentially we could, Paul? On Stone Creek Court,
which the cul -de -sac faces CR 18. What would happen if that road were to go
through Lot 10 and veer to the north more?
Paul Krauss: We in fact were playing with that a little bit. I'm not sure if
it works from a design standpoint.
13
City Council Meeting - April ? ", 1992
Mayor Chmiel: I'm not either.
Paul Krauss: What you basically have to do is come out something like that to
get to the top of the hill. You have to come in perpendicular to the road which
means you'll probably have to go onto somebody else's property to put a road in.
Councilman Workman: Paul? When I see at the tip of Stone Creek 981 and where
you're taking it, it's 968.
Paul Krauss: I'm sorry Tom, I can't read it from this.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, it's 968 to 985. Is that what you're saying?
Councilman Workman: 981 I see down at the tip. And it sounds like, yeah.
I mean down here but then it does look like through Lot 10 but you're going up
through what would probably be an outlot or something and that seems to drop
about.
Paul Krauss: Again there's two issues. There's the hilltop which is someplace
around here but what you're doing is you're having an acceleration lane to get
back onto, to allow traffic to accelerate up to speed. There's going to be a
by -pass lane on that side so people can turn into this thing. If you're going
to do a similar treatment at these intersections, they start to overlap.
Councilman Workman: We can't put it on the downslope. Can we?
Councilwoman Dimler: No.
Mayor Chmiel: No.
Councilman Workman: I mean that's not. Then the traffic coming from the south
will surprise them.
Paul Krauss: Right.
Resident: ...if they're going to go to the north, if I took my car and I
started heading downhill right away, I could get going up to speed...
Councilman Workman: Want me to make a motion?
Mayor Chmiel: Go ahead.
Councilman Workman: I'll make it and you guys tell me if it flies. Are we
considering three things? The wetland alteration, the rezoning?
Councilwoman Dimler: Yes.
Councilman Workman: I move to approve the Wetland Alteration Permit, Rezoning
of property from A2 to RSF.
Mayor Chmiel: Can I make a clarification with that Tom? Items 1 thru 5 and
your other items on rezoning?
C
14
City Council Meeting - Ap l 29, 1992
Councilman Workman: Okay. And the Preliminary Plat to subdivision 81 acres
into 141 single family lots, Hans Hagen Homes with the following additions. Not
have what is Timberwood Drive, not have it stub and not have it go through
through Timberwood. Have the applicant work with staff to design a second
ingress /egress to the north on Galpin. Period.
Councilwoman Dimler: Will they still be able to get 141 lots then or do you
want to maybe leave that number out?
Mayor Chmiel: Maybe with the redesigning, I don't think you can get another lot
in that particular. Removal of that portion.
Councilman Workman: I'll say maximum of 141.
Councilwoman Dimler: It could be less.
Mayor Chmiel: Approximately.
Councilman Wing: Paul, what I'm coming up with, this site may not be suitable
for 141 homes. It's sort of what's coming out here.
Paul Krauss: Councilman Wing, if you're asking me to respond to that, there's a
lot of ways of approaching that.
Councilman Wing: No I'm not. Just a comment.
Paul Krauss: I guess I wanted some clarification on your stipulation. We'd be
happy to sit down with Roger Gustafson and our staff and the developer and try
to figure out how to get a second curb cut in there. But you've got to realize
we may not succeed. I mean looking at this and if we can do it, fine. We're in
a position to do that but if we're not in a position to deliver on a second curb
cut, is there still a condition that they provide two curb cuts?
Councilman Wing: I think that's the motion.
Resident: You say the second access but not define where it is. Could it be to
the east. Could it be to...
Councilman Wing: If I'm reading Tom's motion, he's just requiring this plat to
get two ways in and out. That's all.
Mayor Chmiel: That's what the motion basically was. And I guess if that fails,
we can bring it back and review it.
Paul Krauss: Again, I need to define this. Does the second curb cut have to be
on one of the County Roads on the east side? I mean there is a long term goal
potential, if we can get it through at some point in the future, to have another
access into there which means you may live with a situation with 141 homes with
one access for the next 15 years. Or one year. I don't know.
Councilman Workman: And we'll probably have Stone Creek saying no way.
Paul Krauss: Well you can bet that would happen.
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City Council Meeting - April '9, 1992
Councilman Mason: That's the whole point there.
Councilman Wing: Then if that's the case and if we're going to use that type of
time frame, I'm going to solicit the fire department stepping in. I think
that's too many homes, too isolated. Too much, one call for 10,000 population
per day and this is you know, getting up to the point where they're going to be
calling for help down there.
Paul Krauss: Councilman Wing, again I'm not your City Attorney.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, and I don't know if you can do that either.
Paul Krauss: You've got an option here for another curb cut. Now granted you
don't want to use it but you're denying him the use of a right -of -way that
terminates on his property. You've made the situation. If he can't resolve it,
it puts you in the position of having to figure out something because this
development meets city standards.
Councilman Workman: Or somebody needs to come up with a different and better
motion.
Mayor Chmiel: Just to back off just a tad. Chan Estates roughly has 120 homes
with one access.
Councilman Workman: Well now they can get out through Brookhill but they
didn't.
Councilwoman Dimler: They've lived that way for 15 years. For 15 years or more
they didn't.
Councilman Workman: Of course people were dying by the dozen.
Councilman Wing: Paul brought up some valid points Mr. Mayor. First of all
I'll second that motion just to stop it.
Councilman Workman: Thank you. I don't want to, I want to be able to work with
it. I don't want to lock it up so that, yep. That's it. Can't have that curb
cut but we need to maybe have the County do a little more work on it and I
don't, I'm not taking for granted all the work that Hans Hagen Homes have done
and staff have done. So we get another crack at this right?
Paul Krauss: You get final plat.
Councilman Workman: So, my preference would be that we get it.all worked out,
resolved by the next time. But if we're all saying that it can't be done and
I'm personally sticking pretty close to what I see is trying not to bridge the
two. then we do have problems. You know, I don't know how to resolve that.
Mayor Chmiel: Right. The only other way you could resolve it is to then relook
at the Timberwood access.
Councilman Wing: What about Paul's comment that if they are unable to come up
with a second curb cut, the option? Are we giving an option to?
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City Council Meeting - Apr 29, 1992
Paul Krauss: I don't want to beat a dead horse any more than I have to but if
Timberwood is not an option, and it seems like it is not, I'd ask you to word
the conditions to the effect that staff work with the developer to attempt to
obtain a second curb cut onto the county road but failing that, this layout as
proposed without the Timberwood connection will have to be acceptable.
Councilman Wing: One other comment before we move on Mr. Mayor. If these
first, if you only had one entryway and immediately upon entry if the road T'd,
went north /south and looped around, it would effectively give us two ways to get
to the back side of the neighborhood without a large entryway going through the
middle.
Paul Krauss: Except that you'd wind up double fronting lots.
Councilman Wing: Yeah, I don't know how this lays out. I just see this loop as
being close to the highway.
Paul Krauss: That can be done.
Mayor Chmiel: We have a motion on the floor with a second. And as Paul
indicated, is there any desire to change any of that motion as a friendly
amendment?
Councilman Workman: I thought I left in there that I wanted staff to work
further with the developer and the County to get this second access. That's
what's needed.
Councilman Mason: And failing that?
Councilman Workman: Failing that, I guess we would just have to discuss that at
final plat. I mean we're going to have to anyway.
Mayor Chmiel: But we're leaving the developer sort of hanging where he doesn't
know which way he's going to go either. But maybe through some design or
redesign or whatever, I don't know.
Councilman Workman: But doesn't the, and I can ask the developer. Don't you
think, this looks like an awful lot of homes. Don't you think, and I don't know
what's common but isn't this an awfully stressed access anyway?
Mayor Chmiel: Tom, just for clarification. You have to remember what our
ordinance reads. 15,000 square foot lots and that's what he is really complying
with. And when you say whether there's too many homes, I don't think that's the
question.
Councilman Workman:. No, only in relationship to the access. That's fine. I'm
just saying in regards to that one access which they're relying on very heavily.
Councilman Wing: We have information that it appears to be inaccessible
development the way it's drawn. That concerns me.
Hans Hagen: If I could ask a question... because there's no way I can proceed
with the property coming up with a final plat and not having a resolution to
17
City Council Meeting - April -1 , 1992
this. Can I come in for one portion of it and say fine, we'll approve that but
you have to resolve the ... so I think the preliminary is the point to resolve
major issues. That's where roads will go and... This is a major issue and
that's a preliminary plat issue...
Councilman Workman: Then we'd have to deny it.
Councilman Mason: Could I take a shot at it? If staff, developer and County
are unable to come to agreement on a second egress, we'll approve the plat with
one entrance /egress? If they can't come up with two. I mean it's either that
or approve the Timberwood shot so.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. As that to the amendment, as a friendly amendment. Would
the first and second accept that?
Councilman Workman: So you're saying what Paul had said?
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Richard? Okay. With that I'll call the question then.
Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve Wetland Alteration
Permit #92 -3 with the following conditions:
1. All wetland areas will be protected during construction by Type III erosion
control. The erosion control shall be maintained in good condition until
the disturbed areas are stabilized.
2. The proposed wetland setbacks and buffer strip shown in the compliance table
for each lot will be recorded as part of the Development Contract. The
buffer strip may not be less than 10 feet wide. The buffer strip will be
preserved by an easement.
3. Alteration to the wetlands must occur when it results in the least impact to
the wetland and not during breeding season.
4. The applicant shall receive permits from the DNR and Corps of Engineers.
5. The applicant shall meet all conditions of the Subdivision #92 -1 and
Rezoning #92 -2.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve Rezoning #92 -2 of
property from A2 to RSF with the following conditions:
1. The applicant shall enter into a Development Contract containing all of the
conditions of approval for this project and shall submit all required
financial guarantees. The Development Contract shall be recorded against
the property.
2. Compliance with setback standards established in the compliance table.
City Council Meeting - Apr' 29, 1992
3. The applicant shall meet all conditions of the Subdivision #92 -1 and Wetland
Alteration Permit #92 -3.
All voted in favor and the Motion carried.
Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve Subdivision #92 -1
as shown on the plans dated April 21, 1992 with the condition that staff work
with the developer to attempt to obtain a second curb cut onto the county road.
Failing that, this layout as proposed without the Timberwood connection will be
acceptable, and subject to the following conditions:
1. A tree conservation and wetland buffer easement shall be placed on the
plat. All building sites in the tree conservation or wetland buffer shall
be shown on the building permit.
2. The development shall follow the standards in Subdivision Regulations
Section 18 -61 regarding Landscaping and Tree Preservation.
3. Parkland shall be dedicated, 8 acres of property, as recommended by the
Park Commission, including a 20 foot easement south of the Timberwood
subdivision between Timberwood Drive and the park.
4. A front yard variance shall be granted to all homes that fall into the tree
conservation area but in no case shall the front setback be less than 20
f eet .
5. The applicant shall convey to the City a temporary street easement for the
temporary cul -de -sac at the end of Boulder Road. In addition, a sign shall
be installed on the barricades stating that the street (Boulder Road) will
be extended in the future.
6. The appropriate drainage and utility easements should be conveyed with the
final plat over all utilities located outside of the public right -of -ways,
along with standard easements over each lot. Timberwood Drive shall be
constructed 36 feet wide gutter to gutter.
8. The applicant shall receive and comply with all pertinent agency permits,
i.e. Watershed Districts, Health Department, MPCA.
9. Storm sewer calculations for a 10 year storm event along with pond storage
calculations for storage of a 100 year storm event, 24 hour intensity,
should be submitted to the City Engineer for review and approval.
10. A deceleration and acceleration lane on northbound County Road 19 shall be
provided along with a bypass turn lane on southbound County Road 19 to
improve turning movements into the development.
11. Watermain pipe sizing shall be increased to 8 inches in diameter on Forest
Road and that part of Timberwood Drive lying north of Forest Trail.
12. All storm retention ponds shall be constructed to NURP standards as well as
provide storage for a 100 year storm event.
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City Council Meeting - April 1 , 1992
13. A permit from the railroad (Twin City Western) will be required for any
grading or construction activity within the railroad right -of -way.
14. Fire hydrants shall be spaced approximately 300 feet apart throughout the
subdivision in accordance with the Fire Marshal's recommendations.
15. The proposed earth berms along County Road 19 shall be reduced or relocated
easterly to provide adequate room for future trail considerations.
16. All areas disturbed during site grading shall be immediately restored with
seed and disc- mulched or wood -fiber blanket within two weeks of site
grading or before November 15, 1992 except in areas where utilities and
streets will be constructed yet that year. All areas disturbed with a
slope of 3:1 or greater must be restored with sod or wood -fiber blanket.
17. The developer shall provide adequate access easements for maintenance
purposes to the proposed retention ponds.
18. The developer shall construct the utility and street improvements in
accordance with the 1992 edition of the City's standard specifications and
detail plates and shall prepare final plans and specifications and submit
for City approval.
19. The developer shall acquire the required utility construction permits from
the PCA and Minnesota Department of Health and street access permits from
Carver County Public Works.
20. The final plat should be contingent upon the City authorizing a public
improvement project for extension of trunk sanitary sewer and water
facilities to the site.
21. As a condition of final plat approval, the applicant shall enter into a
development contract and provide the financial security to guarantee
construction of the improvements and payment of any pending assessment_
22. The applicant shall be given credit for any trunk utility improvements they
may install as a part of their overall site improvements. The credit will
be applied towards the Upper Bluff Creek sanitary sewer and watermain trunk
improvements. The credit amount will be determined as the difference
between a standard lateral pipe size (8 inch diameter) and the proposed
trunk improvements which are 12 inches in diameter.
23. The applicant /builder shall provide at the time of building permit
application a tree removal and grading permit for all wooded lots,
specifically Lots 1 thru 7, Block 1, Lots 1 thru 24, Block 4, Lots 1 thru
21, Block 5 and Lots 1 thru 12 and 15 thru 24, Block 4.
24. The applicant shall work with staff to explore the possibility of conveying
backyard drainage from Block 5 into the development storm sewer system.
25. The outlot along County Road 19, Galpin Blvd. needs to replatted with
another lot.
20
City Council Meeting - A - il 29, 1992
26. The applicant shall meet the conditions of the Rezoning #92 -2 and the
Wetland Alteration Permit #92 -3.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Mason: If I could just make a quick comment. I think people who know
me know I tend to not be very pro - development but I would like to thank
Mr. Hagen for his consideration ... in trying to come up with plans that were...
REVIEW PROPOSAL FOR HIGHWAY 5 CORRIDOR STUDY AND COMMENT ON HIGHWAY 5 OVERLAY
DISTRICT.
Paul Krauss: We've been talking about a Highway 5 corridor study since about a
year ago and of course I think we made a lot of progress in a lot of areas.
Some areas we haven't. I think tonight's meeting was an interesting one and
showed the kinds of things that a highway corridor study could have done. I mean
we could have know, we should have ideally have gone through this process before
Target or anybody else thought about going there and we would have known what
the City's position is and we could have dealt with it effectively. Plus it
would been an ordinance and you would have had another tool in the arsenal to
make these visions happen. We need those tools. We need something to convert
the things that you hear from Bill and Barry and from us into the realty. The
last time we met on this you asked me to go back and try to come up with a
proposal to put together that corridor study. Put together those elements and
those elements include a lot of things. They include working with MnDot to
refine the design of the highway. They include designing those arterial, or
sorry. The parallel collector streets in an environmentally sensitive and
effective manner. It includes working with MnOot and the Metro Council to
hopefully procure funding under that Federal Ice Tea Bill. It includes revising
the land use plan as necessary to fit this new vision and it includes getting
ordinances and a plan amendment into our Comp Plan that again we can put on the
table and say, developer. This is the way we want you to do things here. It's
part of our ordinances and still give plenty of flexibility. I think tonight
you saw how much flexibility you can really have but still get a good idea of
what you'd like to achieve. So we started from the concept that those were the
goals we wanted to achieve. We also started from the concept that there is I
think a fair amount of comfort here with Bill and his staff and a desire to keep
them involved. At the same time there's I think a good comfort level with
working with Barton - Aschmann. Barton - Aschmann has a good relationship with
MnOot and the Highway 5 design folks. They've also had a good relationship I
think with the City, with the HRA and designing the streetscape improvements.
The complimentary work in accordance with TH 5. So building upon that, we
really needed to add a final element and that was a good planning function.
Somebody who can convert all these things into the reality. And what we came up
with is the firm of Camiros who has a working relationship with Barton - Aschmann.
They've been in the Twin Cities area for a couple years. Their principle office
is in Chicago. I do happen to know their local person. They are working on a
number of design projects including Minneapolis' design ordinance. They've got
a number of other projects throughout the State and in the area. They're
working in Sioux City as well and Galena, Illinois and they've done some
interesting work there. I think that's a fairly good fit. What we had them lay
out for you was a flow chart of how this study might work and who would be
21
City Council Meeting - April 25, 1994
i. County Road Funding Agreements:
1) Master Agreement
2) County Road 17, Lyman to Highway 5
3) Galpin Boulevard, Highway 5 to Timberwood
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
i A. STONE CREEK 4TH ADDITION, HANS HAGEN HOMES: FINAL PLAT APPROVAL, APPROVE
DEVELOPMENT CONTRACT AND PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS.
Mayor Chmiel: Prior to getting to your's Colleen, maybe if I can have Charles make the. There's a correction
that he'd like to have done to this. Charles.
Charles Folch: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council. Basically if you turn to your staff report item l(a)(1). Page
13. Section 10(a). Basically staff, in discussions with the developer, determined that since the comprehensive
storm water management plan has not yet been approved and it's expected to be presented to you probably
sometime in May for approval, that it would be more appropriate to escrow the estimated storm water funding
cost at this time until that plan is adopted and the associated costs recommended in that plan are approved. And
as such, staff basically recommends that item 10(a) be revised to read, the applicant shall escrow storm water
trunk fees prior to the final plat as well as provide an off site water quality basin. The trunk fee has been
estimated to be $46,076.00 and shall be adjusted accordingly based on the adopted fee schedule and assessment
methodology. And on staff report item 1(a)(2) of the development contract, page SP-4, Section 8 -2 -1, shall be
replaced with the previous paragraph that I've just recommended be identical in both forms.
Mayor Chmiel: Very good, thank you. Colleen. You had a question.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yeah. I'm sorry Kate I didn't' call you today to give you a fore warning on this.
Could you just update me on the problems that we had earlier with the grading.
Kate Aanenson: Yes. We have met with Mr. Hagen and expressed the concerns that we had about grading
and...engineering department is going to meet with their on site person and do a closer inspection to make sure
that it's in compliance and I think he's under compliance. We are approving a phasing, a grading plan for the
next phase at this time so ... and again we are escrowing for that.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay. The bigger issue I have is, I'm trying to figure out what we approved and I
should have pulled it from the original approval but it looks like they're calling that little stub street Timberwood
Drive.
Kate Aanenson: It is a cul -de -sac. It looks like a thru street but it is.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: It does.
Kate Aanenson: I raised that issue...
Councilwoman Dockendorf: It raised a red flag.
2
City Council Meeting - April 25, 1994
Kate Aanenson: On the construction plans it is a temporary cul-de -sac but it's not on there and I thought he was
going to put something in his report to that effect... temporary cul -de -sac. A cul -de -sac.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Right, but it's being called Timberwood Drive, because that's what it's labeled.
Kate Aanenson: Right.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: So it is being called Timberwood.
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: That little cul -de -sac is being called Timberwood Drive?
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I don't recall it having a name at all. I'm really not comfortable calling, I mean
since we went through the long arduous process. I didn't address this but the rest of the Council went through a
long arduous process of saying this street is not going to go through. It's separate. I'm uncomfortable calling it
the same name because it gives the impression that it will go through. And also, I think on condition number 6,
well it gets back to it. Saying Timberwood Drive should be constructed 35 feet...so I'm not comfortable
approving this unless we change the name of that tiny little cul -de -sac.
Mayor Chmiel: I think that can possibly worked out without any real concern.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Thanks.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. So with that I would make a motion to approve.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Oh, excuse me. I've got one more thing. Under the recommendations. Number 2.
It says a sign shall be installed on the barricades at the end of Timberwood Drive and Stone Creek stating that
the street will be extended in the future. This is on page 12. Second recommendation. I don't know if we're
just working with an old document here but it seems like it hasn't been updated since ... So was this getting at the
extension that will eventually.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, are you looking at the final?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well, I'm on page 12. Is that the final? I think it is. Condition number 2. Unless
that is supposed to be referring to when it eventually goes into the Heritage development or what's currently
being called the Heritage.
Kate Aanenson: ...we could take Timberwood out and...
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Right. With that I would move approval.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, I will second that. Any other discussion?
3
City Council Meeting - April 25, 1994
Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Mayor Chmiel seconded to approve Final Plat, Development Contract
and Plans and Specifications for Stone Creek 4th Addition, Hans Hagen Homes as amended by the City
Engineer and Councilwoman Dockendorf. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Councilman Senn: Just for clarification. That was with Charles' changes?
Mayor Chmiel: To incorporate those changes. That's correct.
E. ACCEPT $1,500.00 DONATION FROM DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS FOR CRIME
PREVENTION MATERIALS AND BICYCLE SAFETY PROGRAM.
Mayor Chmiel: Scott Harr, would you like to do the honors of.
Scott Harr: Yes I would Mr. Mayor and if the Council in fact accepts this donation, representatives from the
Disabled American Veterans would like to present the check to you as the Mayor. Disabled American Veterans
organization has offered to assist us with our crime prevention program by donating the money tonight that
would be used for two separate programs. One is to purchase material that we use to give away to young people
at school and during the park programs and anywhere that we get an opportunity to interact with them. Crime
Prevention coloring books, pencils, things that carry the crime prevention message. Also we're entering into an
exciting program through the Carver County Sheriff's Department to initiate a new bicycle patrol program that
will be used to access areas not traditionally accessed by squad cars. The parks, the trails, business areas where
officers aren't usually out of their cars and visible and we're doing this program 50/50 with the County and the
DAV has been good enough to help us with this and we certainly appreciate their generosity.
Mayor Chmiel: Good. Thank you. And maybe it's the time that you would like.
Wayne Blue: Do you want us to come up there?
Mayor Chmiel: Oh I'd love to have you come up here. For $1,500.00 I'll walk there.
Wayne Blue: Okay. Mr. Mayor. On behalf of the Disabled American Veterans, about 6,100 members, we'd
like to give you a check for $1,500.00 to start off some new programs and there will more following and we
want to thank the Council here for allowing us to operate over here at the Riveria Club. It sure has been helpful
to us and we hope we can continue to work with the City Council here. As of 1 May I am no longer the
gaming manager—my new gaming manager will be Mr. Jim Olins there. He's a 49 year veteran of the Disabled
American Veterans and he's school trained and he will be taking over the fast of May.
Mayor Chmiel: Good. Thank you very much. Appreciate it ... So with that I would move that we move item
number (e) for approval. Is there a second?
Councilman Mason: Second.
Mayor Chmiel moved, Councilman Mason seconded to accept the $1,500.00 donation from Disabled
American Veterans for Crime Prevention Materials and Bicycle Safety Programs. All voted in favor and
the motion carried unanimously.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
4