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CC Minutes 2002 05 28CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING MAY 28, 2002 Acting Mayor Labatt called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Acting Mayor Labatt, Councilman Boyle, Councilman Ayotte, and Councilman Peterson COUNCILMEMBERS ABSENT: Mayor Jansen STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Tom Scott, Todd Hoffman, Kate Aanenson, and Matt Saam PUBLIC PRESENT FOR ALL ITEMS: Silka Phyllis Werness Jackie Waker Shanda Mayfield Katie Lano Jason Edwardson Carissa Dilley Eric Thon Dave Ruhland Dolph Porter Dave & Mike Zwickey Brian Hawley Glenn Stolar Craig Claybaugh 5855 County Road 50, Carver P.O. Box 262, Carver 748 Ashley Drive, Chaska 8604 Chanhassen Hills Drive South 110184 Friendship Lane South, Chaska 7300 Rolling Acres Road, Excelsior 8351 West Lake Drive 1560 Mount Hope Road, Chaska 770 Preakness Lane 690 Lake Susan Hills Drive 401 Del Rio Drive Park and Recreation Commission Planning Commission PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay, well thank you for all coming tonight to see me serve as the Acting Mayor. It's been a pleasure and hope you paid your admission and grabbed programs. Mayor Jansen's out of town. Actually out of state so I'll be serving tonight. Our first item on the agenda is public announcements for the presentation of Maple Leaf Awards and presentation of Certificate of Appreciation to several of the planning commissioners so, what I'd like is for all of us to come out in front and I've got plaques and certificates and a little speech to say about each of the recipients. Okay, Jay Karlovich, why don't you come on up. Jay, on behalf of the City Council I'd like to thank you for dedicated service to both the Park and Recreation Commission and Planning Commission. You hold a special place in history having served on two commissions in the span of 3 years. Jay, your fellow commissioners appreciate your sense of humor and the professional manner in which you conducted the city's businesses. Thank you and congratulations. Jay Karlovich: Thank you very much. Thank you for the opportunity to serve the city. Thank you. Acting Mayor Labatt: Park and Rec Commissioner Mike Howe. Come on up. Mike, on behalf of the City Council I'd like to thank you for your 6 years of dedicated service to the city's Park City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 and Recreation Commission. You inspired many people through your unselfish commitment to public service. The level of enthusiasm and energy you display in your volunteer work is truly unprecedented. The success of the Dave Huffman 5K Race is perhaps the finest example of your work you have done for the community. Thank you for investing the time required to ensure that this special event be delivered to the community with class and style. Mike, whatever the call you answered. There's not a single park and rec event that you didn't help out with. Mike, we want to thank you on behalf of the City Council. Jan Lash. Park and Rec Commissioner. You got the longest one. Okay, Jan. On behalf of the City Council I'd like to thank you for your extraordinary contributions while serving as a Park and Rec Commissioner, serving 12 years. 137 Okay. Serving 13 years. Many of those years as Chairperson has distinguished you from the majority of the volunteer commissioners. Your accomplishments while serving the commissions are too numerous to fully document. Highlights over the years include the success of the 1997 park and open space trail referendum, the construction of the recreation center, installation of over 15 miles of trails, development of the skate park, and the successful coordination of dozens of community events. You are a single chance commission to be ever recognized by the Minnesota Recreation and Park Association for outstanding service to your community. Jan, you have truly left a legacy for all of Chanhassen to benefit. Thank you and congratulations. And I should also, David Moes from the Park and Rec Commission and Debra Kind from the Planning Commission are also recipients tonight but they were unable to attend so we'd like to congratulate them and thank them also. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations: a. Approve Settlement Agreement with Michael J. Gorra Concerning Assessments. b. Approve Consultant Work Order for Energy Audit. Resolution/12002-46: Approve Resolution Authorizing Conveyance of City Owned Property. d. Approval of Bills. Approval of Minutes: · City Council Executive Session Minutes dated May 13, 2002 · Board of Review Minutes dated May 13, 2002 · City Council Minutes dated May 13, 2002 · City Council Work Session Minutes dated May 13, 2002 Receive Commission Minutes: · Planning Commission Minutes dated May 7, 2002 f. Resolution/12002-47: Lake Lucy Ridge, Randy Noecker: 1) Final Plat Approval 2) Approval of Plans and Specifications as amended Approval of Preliminary and Final Plat, Willow Ridge 3rd Addition, Located at 6665 Mulberry Street, David Smith. City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 h. Resolution #2002-48: Resolution of Adzick Easement Matter, 1998 Trail Project. Site Plan Review for a Two-Phase 28,980 square foot office building; Located South of Highway 5 and East of Powers Boulevard, Powers Boulevard Office Building; Mount Properties. Resolution #2002-49: Consider Adoption of an Ordinance Concerning the Sale of Fireworks, as amended with the summary publication of notice. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. LAW ENFORCEMENT & FIRE DEPARTMENT UPDATE. Sgt. Dave Potts: Good evening councilmen. I have my monthly memo in your packet with the sheriff's area report and community service officer highlights for April. I don't have any comments specific to that information. Under the miscellaneous items, kind of a copy cat situation following the September 11th World Trade Center and the anthrax scares in scattered parts of the country. We had a little local action in that regard. A local mail handling company in Chanhassen received a couple letters back in December, that contained a mysterious white powder that proved to be non-harmful but nonetheless the disruption to the business and the scare was similar to what you'd heard about on the news. But fortunately, postal authorities, the federal postal authorities were able to investigate these incidents and finally apprehend a man from the State of Texas as the one who sent these to this particular business. Apparently somebody disgruntled with that particular business trying to cause that type of disruption and scare, but a successful conclusion to that. I'm also, one day in April the sheriff's office conducted compliance checks of establishments that sell tobacco products throughout Chanhassen. Of all the attempted sales, or attempted purchases that were made, only one sale was made to our underage buyer in all of Chanhassen so that was a good situation. Tobacco sales are different than the alcohol compliance sales where the City Council takes action. The City Council is not involved in the tobacco sales compliance. That's an independent thing through the County, but just for information, what is done with those is, if there's more than one illegal sale made, has a progressive fine up to $250. The fines go from $100, $200, $250, and then license suspension. They're unable to sell tobacco products for a period of time so some information on that. Also, senior citizen safety day. Planning is underway for Chanhassen's first Senior Citizen Safety Day. This is going to be a joint venture with the City of Victoria. Beth Hoiseth and I are working with senior representatives as well as Carol Wickenhauser, the Senior Center Coordinator, and Sherry Jones, Assistant Administrator over at the City of Victoria to host this one day event to take place this fall. The primary focus for our first year is going to be emergency services with presentations by both Victoria and Chanhassen firefighters, Ridgeview paramedics and sheriff office personnel, and potentially others. We're looking at some topics, or potential topics to include home fire safety with some hands on training in the use of fire extinguishers. Some local crime information and law enforcement, crime prevention type information and the services that the City and County can provide, along with medical response and services provided by paramedic ambulances serving the city of Chanhassen. We have a potential date of October 25th, but nothing's been set on that. Chanhassen Business Watch Information Network. This is a program that Beth has been working on for quite some time and I've gotten involved in kind of helping to promote that program and helping with her efforts. We designed a flyer that was in your packet. Was mailed out this time to all the Chanhassen City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 businesses that we have addresses for. It's approximately 350 businesses that received that flyer. Looking for them to give us information on their email address that we can send them out crime alerts, law enforcement updates, crime prevention information specific to businesses, that type of thing. Since that mailing, an additional 45 businesses have signed up bringing our total on line businesses to 105, so we're approaching the one-third mark with city businesses so we're pretty encouraged by that program, even though it is pretty young at this point. And the final item I had for council was just to mention our new communications center is now up and running. The move from the old center to the new occurred on Tuesday, May 14th at about 2:00 in the morning. The move was done in the early morning hours to cause the least amount of disruption in switching our whole radio and phone system from one building to another and I'm happy to say that everything went well. All the back-up and contingency plans and everything did not have to be utilized as the switch was pretty painless. So our next big move will be switching from our VHF radio system to the 800 megahertz radio system. That should take place probably in the first part of July. We're looking at officers and dispatchers right now are going through a training on the new radios and new systems, that type of thing. But that was the information I had for council this evening. Any questions or comments? Councilman Peterson: Nothing on the date on the seat belt? Was there a law referencing that change. I don't know report. Just a general question. What was the May 24th change? I saw a couple of display boards across town why it was... Sgt. Dave Potts: Yeah, just a big push to get people to use their seat belts. There's been, you know throughout the last several years there's been different programs, educational type programs to promote. This particular program is an enforcement program trying to warn people. Let people know that officers statewide are being asked to look at that infraction and cite that infraction on a more regular basis. It's not something that a person can be stopped for, but if they're stopped for speeding, not wearing a seat belt, they can receive a second ticket for that violation as well. And that's the big push at this point and the ongoing program. Councilman Peterson: Interesting marketing. I mean when you see it, May 24th it changes. That makes you think that the laws changed so, it worked. Sgt. Dave Potts: Well the more people that wear their seat belts, the better it is. Acting Mayor Labatt: Good. Anything else? Councilman Ayotte: Two points. The one tremendous improvement, I suspect it's just by paying attention and maybe possibly because natural trends. The number of traffic incidents is significantly going down. Just a comment on that point. Secondly, with the communications equipment and with the movement to an upgraded system, what's the status of the old equipment and is there a value to the old equipment in terms of having it as a back-up or some sort of other application. Sgt. Dave Potts: I don't have all the details. It's been a multi-year program. Currently some of our divisions and squad cars are equipped with the new radios doing testing and there's been a lot of testing but currently they're outfitted with both the old and the new radios. We're in what's called a 30 day trial burn at this point. It's a one month period of time where everything has to work and no glitches, no nothing before we actually make the switch. If they come up with a glitch, which they did during our first 30 day trail period, they'll fix the glitches and then start over again so we're in that new 30 day window that brings us out to the end of June roughly so we're looking for that implementation probably in July. City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Councilman Ayotte: So eventually where they'll be once that equipment that we have, will it be obsolete and will there be an application for it? Sgt. Dave Potts: Well the equipment we're currently using is already obsolete. I mean the portable radios and the radios that officers have in their squad cars are not obsolete. Those are still radios that can be programmed and that type of thing. But the radio system itself and particularly the dispatch center is something that will probably be saved by Motorola or whoever to be used for other people's antiquated radio systems and keep them running. Councilman Ayotte: So we're trading it in at a value. Sgt. Dave Potts: That I couldn't answer. I don't know all the in's and out's of the switch over with equipment and the value and that. Councilman Ayotte: Thanks you. Acting Mayor Labatt: Thank you David. Sgt. Dave Potts: Thank you. John Wolff: Councilors, Acting Mayor. This will be brief. The obsolation of the VHF system is a function of the band width changes that the FCC is requiring and we looked at, the County looked at staying with VHF and making those changes and the costs associated with that or going to a more technology efficient and futuristic type system so that's really the primary reason behind the change. For the fire service, the transition's going to be a little slower to the 800 megahertz system because of cost issues with some of the outlying county fire departments. All departments will have dual systems initially but our pagers will always operate off of VHF because there's no technology right now for 800 megahertz and the way the fire departments are activated is via pagers so there will be some dual running of the systems, but. And there is somewhat of an after market. We've purchased a lot of our radios through after market actually. Of our portables and hand held so we hope to gain some return on that relative to the cost for the city, and it is fairly substantial. I think we budgeted almost $150,000 next fiscal year for the fire department transition to 800 megahertz .... the numbers will come in quite that high, and that doesn't include any trade-in values either so. Councilman Ayotte: Thanks. John Wolff: As I mentioned, my report's quite brief. I want to talk about staffing first. Staffing is at 100 percent and that's unusual for us at this time of year. Normally this is when we really completed a recruiting and hiring processing and getting ready to roll in a new class, and those class sizes range between 3 to 10 firefighters. This year we saw low turnover and we had a few members that left the area, returned to the area and so the first time in 6 years we're not having a recruit class in 2002. We'll graduate a class shortly, but we're not going to have a new class. So that's just for your information. We'll be delaying our next recruit class probably a full year, and we have a very significant waiting list. There is actually a lot of interest in the fire service. Probably more interest today than there's ever been, just you know, it's been in the media a lot. Our calls are down 10 percent, almost 15 percent quite frankly if you look at the 5 month number but the 4 month number's down 10 percent from last year at this time, but if you look at the 3 year rolling average, we're down about 3 percent so we're kind of just in one of those cycles where calls are down slightly. Normally we have seen a growth, anywhere between 5 and 15 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 percent per year but we're actually dropping off the curve a little bit. I think that has something to do with the priority medical dispatching program that's been in place now for a couple years where a county dispatcher's, based on criteria, select whether or not they'll send out fire, police and ambulance on a medical call. Our medical calls are down as relative to the whole number. They used to be about 65 percent. Now they're about 50 percent of the whole, and if we look at the intensity of calls, our intensity of calls is up. We're not going out on a lot of the simple 911 type medical emergencies. More of the advance life support type calls so. The resource is being used much more efficiently. That was the goal of the program and I am reporting that it's definitely working. Just got our operating numbers for this year recently. The numbers are in good shape. We're about 30 percent of our operating budget, which is kind of where we would expect to be. We're on target for capital. We've got approximately about $75,000 in projected capital and we've been working with the city manager moving forward with those expenditures. There's been a significant amount of planning going into the PGA event in Chaska, and our department's been involved. We've been assisting the County and the Chaska Fire Department with some of the components of the response. When you bring 50,000 plus people into the area for a week, and really kind of a high profile, high media event, you have to kind of plan for all contingencies and we've been involved with that. We've had 2 major house fires this year. We average about 1 a year, so hopefully that's, we've covered a couple years there. We had a third house fire just this weekend. The result of a lightning strike that was quickly noticed by a neighbor. The home was unoccupied and we were able to put that out quite quickly. We're not counting that in as a major call. That's all I had for this report. Any questions for the fire department? Acting Mayor Labatt: No. Thanks John. PUBLIC HEARING: PRESENTATION OF CITY CENTER COMMONS MASTER PLAN & PHASE I PLAN. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, City Council members. I'd like to introduce Damon Farber from Damon Farber and Associates, landscape architects for the City Center Commons. This is a public hearing. I've asked Damon to go through the different concepts, master plan Phase I proposed plan and some of the elements that would be included in the overall development of City Center Commons. And Damon Farber. Damon Farber: Good evening. I'd like to talk about the process to begin with that we've gone through to arrive at the master plan. One of the things that I want to emphasize is how much the public, the City has been a part of this process. We have gone through a number of reviews and meetings, including a number of get togethers with the City Center Commons Design Committee, which is a group of individuals of about 12 people or so, who are truly representative of both staff, library and the community at large... We've also met with city staff certainly. We have met with the public on one occasion and tonight we'll do that again if there are people who are interested in commenting and adding input. We've met with the Park and Rec Commission, and we've had...review by parks and rec staff. One of the things that we have done is had a plan that has truly evolved over time. Some of you may remember the initial concept. We began about 6 months ago I think and they were extremely.., very formal approach. We've really.., not the direction in which we've ended up. We are going to talk tonight about the master plan. We're also going to talk about Phase I of the master plan. And then we're going to talk about cost which is where a number of you are right now I think in that little handout. There's always the danger of handing out on paper. But while you're looking at that I should mention that the cost has dropped significantly from when we first started, and that again is because of the amount of really positive in a public/private partnership, a collaborative effort and I think as a result of that City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 we're ending up with a much better product. City Center Commons has taken on the character of a passive park. One that has a design that is fairly traditional, and one that really promote gathering. One that truly promotes gathering of people of all ages. We want to be sure that this is a space that welcomes youth. We want to make sure it's a space that welcomes adults at the same time. We have the seniors who abut this in their new center. We have the new public library that is an integral part of this open space, and we have the businesses throughout the city of Chanhassen and visitors who we think are going to be able to use this space in a myriad of ways. We want to make sure that this is truly a civic space. One that will invite farmers markets. One that will have art shows. One that will allow for sitting on the lawn. We want the space to promote and used by the library. Outdoor reading and so on. We want to make sure too that this space is a year round space that's easily maintainable and one that does reflect the Minnesota four seasons, so we'll be celebrating that through the introduction of various plant materials and the use of indigenous materials. So I'd like to talk about the master plan a little bit, and then what we'll do is go to the Phase I of that plan. And then we'll talk a little bit about schedule. What we hope to receive tonight is your approval of the master plan and Phase I and we'd like to get your consideration to proceed into the next stage of design so that we can have this project completed by the middle of October, beginning of November, 2003. We've been trying to do everything we can to coordinate it with the library but the reality is that the library and the park are not going to be done at exactly the same time. So it's an opportunity for people within the community to actually see the construction of a building and then see how the site actually fits around it after that. The master plan, as you can see, on the image on the wall, or in your packet, really does have a number of front doors and that was the intent. The intent was that it act as a front door to City Hall. That it act as a front door to the library. And that it act as a front door and a welcome mat to the community at large and for that reason in the southeast comer, which is at the intersection down here. See right off78th. Kerber is over to your right. Market's here. In this comer we've opened up the site in an effort to visually invite people into the project. The concept began actually when we were working on the library and we started thinking about how the site might best be used. And what kind of concept we can begin to import on the site that would reflect the library and the city hall, and began to realize that it had everything to do with activities. A variety of activities. A variety of, and the scale, we wanted to create and have created I think a sense of intimacy within a safe and secure environment. So if you look at the library building itself, you'll see that it has a number of projects onto West 78th. And so we felt, why don't we bring that concept into the site so we created a number of outdoor rooms that reflect the rooms within the library. The site itself drops dramatically actually, although you wouldn't think so. You'd think it was flat, but it really isn't. There's a significant drop in grade from the lower level entrance to the building to the corner here, and so what we have, we have accommodated that change in grade by the introduction of a series of terraces and steps working their way up along this paved area which is intended to be paved concrete and interlocking pavers. It's very warm, natural, porous material. And we also have a ramp that brings visitors and users up to the upper level along the south part of the site. In addition there is a walkway that brings people from West 78th, up into the site and vice versa. The planting within the scheme is very, very organic. It has winter interest. It has color in the spring. It will be interesting in the fall and the summer as well. We are looking at creating a focal point, a fountain in the area just at the southeast comer of this building. And then a series of what we call vasques, which are groves of trees at either end of this large open area. In your packet, and on here we're calling that a flexible plaza space, and it truly is intended to be used in a number of different ways .... maple theme. We have a large lawn area that gives us a significant amount of public open space. We have a series of lime stone walls with a birch grove, that help to pick up the grade in that area. In other words we've got now a great big slope. What we want to do is create a little bit of a terrace in there effect so we can begin to save a few of the trees that currently exist on the site. But we're not sure if we're going to be able to do that, but there are 3 large maples that are very close to the City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 existing building which will come down. The building will come down. Hopefully the maples will stay. We'll see, and a large...there as well. We have a series of benches and seating throughout the area with art around them because this is a master plan. We've got, identified sculpture at a few key points along with a fountain. We have a significant, large circular area at the southeast comer of Market and West 78th where the holiday tree will be located. Where there will be gatherings. There's a series of small walls there where people can sit. We've been very careful to select materials and walls for example and in the paving that deter Rollerbladers and skate boarders. At the same time this area, we want to welcome everybody onto the site so we've made it as user friendly as possible, and incorporated furnishings that are vandal resistant, although not vandal proof. There's lighting through here, and the variety of spaces is what we think is really going to be very exciting. The Phase I, and this is just the master plan. I want to emphasize. Phase I is, does incorporate all of those elements. It does incorporate all of the paving so that this entire area will be paved in Phase I with the pavers. There will be a series of walls that go in in Phase I. We'll have a majority of the trees, with evergreen and coniferous going in. The evergreen trees, the coniferous trees are primarily up along that area between the parking lot and the green terraced area. We have lighting going in. All of the infrastructure is going in in Phase I, and that's really important because if nothing were done after Phase I, and we hope that's not the case, but if nothing were done, there would be a completed park. There would be a space that was usable from day one, to which we could add landscaping in the future. And that's really what a master plan does. The master plan is the guideline or the framework within which ongoing decisions can be made so we've identified in the cost which are on your last page, each of those items that's going in in the initial phase. The cost of the initial phase is $521,000. The master plan, which is the second, included in the second part, is an additional $400,000 so bringing the total up to $958,000 for the overall plan. For the lighting, the paving, site furnishings, all utilities, signage, and so on. So the initial plan, the Phase I which we begin, we hope, in construction next May. A little more than a year from now. Little less than a year from now actually, will include a finished product that will be used, usable and available November 15th, and I've got a schedule here which I'd like to hand out. It has a correction on it and the computer is only as good as the person who puts the information in and I put the information in, so you'll see that I crossed something out. It doesn't alter anything but it does speak to the schedule that we believe is, and it's very feasible and very much one we can deal with. What it suggests is that if we were to get permission to proceed this evening, we could have all of our drawings done and ready for competitive bidding by the beginning of December. We could then take bids in January. Award of bid in February and be under construction in May. That's sort of a streamline version. More specifically within the next design phase there are 3 distinct design stages. What we call schematic design, design the building which is a refinement of that, and then development of working drawings... Each one will take approximately 6 to 8 weeks, which allows us to be ready to go to bid next May. What I'd like to do is now open this up, if you have any questions regarding the master plan for Phase I and I'll try to answer them as best I can. Councilman Peterson: Just to confirm, we have a total of 958. Damon Farber: That's correct. Councilman Peterson: That's for the master plan. That's inclusive of Phase I. Damon Farber: Absolutely. That's correct. Councilman Peterson: Okay. City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Damon Farber: The breakdown is Phase I is $521,200, and an additional $437,000 if we were to complete the master plan in today's dollars. Councilman Peterson: Yep. The only other question that I have for you Damon, and I was one of the people that sat through this and watching it evolve and de-evolve as the case may be, and we told you to sharpen your pencil. Damon Farber: Yes. Councilman Peterson: If I gave you the magic wand and said, you know you sharpened it too much, what do you think you'd add back, just off the top of your head that you think it would, if there is something you'd add back. Damon Farber: I think what I would suggest be added back into the project, if not now at a later date, is perhaps some additional furnishings in terms of seating. I think perhaps some more lighting in terms of accent lighting rather than strictly the pedestrian scale lighting. I think too that more art and sculpture within the space could make it a unique space and that's really what I would hope that we could accomplish. That this City Center Commons becomes something different than a lot of other public civic spaces. That people will come here because of the library. Because of the City Hall, but also because of the landscape of the site itself. So the introduction of public art would be I think a significant enhancement to the project. We have all the basics covered and I think that that view is critical. Is that we say when we open this in May of 2003, we will have, I'm sorry in November, 2003. We'll have a finished product and that's the most important thing. Councilman Peterson: To get it to that next level, what you cited is, we're not talking about a lot more additional money to bring it to that next level of perception or reality. A couple hundred thousand maybe. Damon Farber: I think probably a couple hundred thousand. Art is a very, you know you can't say. I mean it could be a $25,000 piece. It could be donated by somebody within the community. It could be a $75,000 piece. It really depends. I think as you'll remember Craig, there were some limestone benches that we had scattered that came out of this fountain, has water shooting up and that is in Phase I. What's not in Phase I are the pieces of limestone within that fountain that help to really bring it to that next level. We'll have a finished product. We won't have standing water in the fountain. The water goes up and it goes down and vanishes into the ground for all practical purposes, and then re-circulates. At least that's the perception. And we had a series of lime stone elements, which I thought were fairly important because the intent was, that on those lime stone seat units, we would begin to inscribe a text that began to reference back to the history of the community or the library somehow, but that's not a necessity. I think it's a nicety. It's a nice enhancement. I think we could get more planting in here too in terms of color. In terms of flowers. I think that would be positive now. Todd in the Parks Department may be able to help us out over time by adding some things as we go along. Councilman Peterson: Thanks. Councilman Ayotte: One of the things that I believe is missing is the recurring costs associated with the building material that you selected. There's a cost to, for preventive maintenance and there's a cost for minor repair. Also there may be some non-recurring costs like certain types of equipment that may be required to clear snow. Certain types of equipment to maintain what you've called out. Does that scenario bear true? City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Damon Farber: You're correct that what you don't see here is a budget line item for ongoing maintenance. We've talked about that. We've talked about the reality of having to plan for it and staff maintenance here. So while we don't have it down here as a cost, we have talked about that. In terms of the equipment that's needed, we've been very conservative about the selection of the materials. The brick pavers are a very, very good, strong material. They can be maintained either with a bobcat. With a snowblower. With a broom. It's really, it's a Minnesota tolerant material. The lime stone walls are the same way. They don't, they won't require unconditional maintenance. Once they're in, if they are damaged somehow, you're right. They'll need to be maintained but that would happen with any material, so we've been very careful to design this in a way that has reduced maintenance but it will have some. Councilman Ayotte: And is it, if you were to alter the bill of material, could you predictably alter the recurring costs, plus or minus? Damon Farber: I don't believe it would make any difference whatsoever. Councilman Ayotte: Okay, so by us voting on this this evening, give you the go ahead, we would not blindly provide to you, or not provide to you. Blindly affect tax base one way or the other. We will affect tax base. Damon Farber: The selection of the material, it's the construction material itself will not impact the way it's maintained. Councilman Ayotte: I understand that but because we had this being presented as an advantage and enhancement to the city, it probably would be prudent to have an understanding of what the recurrent costs are going to be to maintain this so that the citizens know the costs implication of such an event. Damon Farber: We can gather that information and put it together. I don't know what it is off hand. Councilman Ayotte: I understand that but I think it's fair to let residents know what that is. Damon Farber: Yeah. Councilman Ayotte: Thank you. Councilman Boyle: Done? Councilman Ayotte: Yeah. Councilman Boyle: In regard to the fountain that you're referring to recently, would it be more economically feasibly, economically wise to do the whole thing at one time rather than in two phases, referring to the stone work. Damon Farber: I'd like to say yes, but I think that we can install the mechanical equipment and the basic fountain in the first phase, and add the other elements later on. I don't think one precludes the other so... Councilman Boyle: So there would be no financial advantage to that? 10 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Damon Farber: Not a significant one. Todd Gerhardt: Damon, the stone wasn't into a foundation? Damon Farber: No, it is not into a footing or. Todd Gerhardt: It's just a heavy piece of stone that would sit on top of the ground. Damon Farber: That's right. Todd Gerhardt: And you may attach it with some type of L bracket or something. Damon Farber: It will be attached but it will not be on a footing. Councilman Boyle: I'm not a landscape expert but it seems like there's a lot of trees and shrubs here. Damon Farber: Oh I wish we had a lot more. Councilman Boyle: I bet you do. Damon Farber: You know I think, there's always a danger in showing the tree. In showing a plan like this from above and showing the tree at a mature size. The green trees for example are shown at about 30 feet across. It's a long time before they'll get to that. We don't have a lot of planting. And in Phase I we have much less than what you see here. But I don't, I think that because we're talking about a major civic space, I think it's the appropriate amount of plant material. I think when you realize what you have on the site, at least I did, that it's a very large piece of land. It's 400,000 square feet just in this area. So by the time you add the concourse or that plaza between the library and City Hall, we really aren't looking at spacing of trees, or number of trees that's extraordinary. Councilman Boyle: Okay, thank you. Acting Mayor Labatt: Damon, these trees on the west side of the building where the parking's going to be, what's the plan? Are they going to try and relocate them? Damon Farber: We're not going to be relocating them and using them in the park. I think there are some trees, Todd correct me if I'm wrong but they were going to be relocating some trees and re-using them but not the vast majority of them. A number of them have been in long enough that transplanting them is not a practical thing. The quaking aspen for example are not really a tree that one has to save. So I think that some of those will be history as that project... Acting Mayor Labatt: How about that large cherry tree? Or that flowering crab tree, whatever it is. Todd Hoffman: There's a few smaller ones in front that can be moved. Unfortunately the majority of the trees that were tagged for removal, and we did locate, utility locates and many of them are over the top of utility lines and fiber optic.., so we'll be moving about 5 trees is all. The rest will be cut down. Acting Mayor Labatt: And including these big trees on the. 11 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Todd Gerhardt: The ash trees go. Acting Mayor Labatt: The ash trees go. Damon Farber: Yes, and that is unfortunate because there's a maturity about them and a regal character but they're just not, they didn't work with the library. Acting Mayor Labatt: There's no way to relocate those? Todd Gerhardt: No. Todd Hoffman: No other projects around... Acting Mayor Labatt: And, I'm going to hold up this sheet here. Lines 23 through 28. All the trees. What I need to know is, when you say like line 23. One coniferous holiday tree, and it's 1,500 bucks and granted it's in the Phase II or whatever. Right now it is. What are we talking for a tree height or diameter? I need to know for every one of those lines I quoted you. Damon Farber: Pardon me? Acting Mayor Labatt: For lines 23 to 28, I'd like to know what you're planning for tree height for the coniferous trees. Damon Farber: The holiday tree is as large a tree as we can get. So it could conceivably be 20- 25 feet. It's a large tree. The intent is to have that be an established tree. We'd like to root prune it prior to moving it. The other trees, the regular deciduous trees at $375 each, will be between 6 and 8 feet in height, which is a good size for a planting. Acting Mayor Labatt: So are we talking an inch and a half, 2 inch diameter of the trunk then? Damon Farber: No. Evergreens are measured by height so when we say 6 to 8 feet, it could be 3 to 4 inches at the base of the trunk. For the evergreens. For the deciduous trees, the large shade trees, at $425, that could be a 3 to 4 inch trunk as opposed to the smaller shade trees at $300 which would be 2 ½ inches in caliper. 2 ½ is a standard in the industry for planting of shade trees. And the ornamental at $275 is about, is a little bit more than the standard. The standard would be about $225 so we're looking at, instead of an inch and a half, possibly a 2 inch ornamental tree. Acting Mayor Labatt: How about 26? Damon Farber: 26 is a special maple. Again, and we aren't, I should add that we are hoping that some of these materials like the maple and like the holiday tree might be donations from somebody. However, we have allocated a line that we're talking about that maple occurring in the upper northeast comer of the site. And we're looking at getting something in there that's about 8 to 10 inches if we can. Again, root pruning it in advance. It's a significant tree. It's not a standard... Todd Gerhardt: About where the flowering crab sits now. Damon Farber: Pardon me? 12 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Todd Gerhardt: It's about where the flowering crab. Damon Farber: It is... I was out there this evening and I was looking at it. It's not in exactly the same place, and it actually sits, that flowering crab which is really quite nice, sits I think a little bit further away from the corner of the building. It sits more about right here between where the maple is and that spot the tree is in. We should keep in mind that what we have is a master plan and Phase I of the master plan. There's still a lot more work, a lot more design work to be done so if we start to look at that and.., appropriate place for the tree, that could be where the tree goes. It's not a maple but it is... Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. Damon Farber: And these are just our projections cost. Acting Mayor Labatt: And then line 57. Relocation of transformer. Damon Farber: That's correct. Acting Mayor Labatt: And that's put off into the Phase II. Damon Farber: Into the future. Acting Mayor Labatt: Why wouldn't we relocate that now? Damon Farber: We, I'd like to relocate it now. I probably should have suggested that when you asked me what I thought we ought to do. We don't need to relocate it. Acting Mayor Labatt: Which transformer is it? Damon Farber: It's right down in this corner. Right comer of Market and West 78th. It sits right about in here. Acting Mayor Labatt: So right in the middle of your walkway? Damon Farber: That's correct. But it's in the middle now of where one would walk. If we remove it, we'd like to move it up to a location here. Acting Mayor Labatt: That's $30,000 to move it 12 feet, give or take? Damon Farber: That's correct. Councilman Peterson: We talked about moving it farther towards the parking lot at one point in time, didn't we? Damon Farber: But the cost wouldn't be significantly different. Councilman Peterson: Part of what we wanted to do Steve was to see, see how onerous it is to move it. Or how far, how it fits in. If we say well it doesn't look as bad as we thought, then we haven't spent the money. That's why we moved it into Phase II. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. 13 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Damon Farber: It does seem though like it will become visually the focal point. What we really wanted to do is open this up and look under these trees and into this area and that, at the comer is one person you'll see. But once the rest of this starts to create a visual focus, we might be able to beyond that and into the site. And the reality was that we wanted to be cautious about how much money was spent in Phase I. How much we showed going into it. Acting Mayor Labatt: So to look at the master plan, and look at Phase I of these sheets and the trees are different colored in different pictures. Are the ones that are in lighter shades. Damon Farber: On the plan that you see up in front of you, and the one that is in your, the ones that are lighter are not in Phase I in the picture. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. Damon Farber: The one that has an outline on them, so these trees here. The ornamental trees and the 3 outdoor rooms pushing these within. Acting Mayor Labatt: Yeah, I've got them both on. Damon Farber: Those are Phase I. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. Todd Gerhardt: So anything that looks shaded or hazy is not included. Damon Farber: That's correct. Todd Gerhardt: You see the steps and the rooms will not be included as a part of Phase I when you go to the different rooms down below. You might want to point that out. Damon Farber: ... we've had a series of steps going in a westerly direction and another series of steps coming across.., going north. These two set of stairways are not in Phase I. That will be a grassy slope through there with a sidewalk that leads us up there into this larger area. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. Damon Farber: To be added at a later date but they aren't in Phase I. Todd Gerhardt: I though the holiday tree was included in Phase I. No? Why wouldn't we have the holiday tree in Phase I? Councilman Peterson: I don't remember. Damon Farber: The reason we didn't show it in Phase I, and...that we were hoping to get that in a donation. Acting Mayor Labatt: What if we don't? Then what? 14 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Damon Farber: Then we'll probably end up moving it... something else that we take out. The general consensus has been that that's an important element within the park itself and that will happen right here in this raised in the plan circle. Right at the comer. Acting Mayor Labatt: Todd, what's our budget? Do you know off the top of your head? Todd Gerhardt: $200,000 is what we allocated for the 2002 budget year. And as you can see this project has moved into 2003, and so we get another shot at modifying that budget. We also, there's costs associated with the library project that are included in this one so we will be transferring some money from the library construction fund into here, so I think it was around $150-$160,000 that would go into that portion of the budget. So we're still in need of about $250,000. Damon Farber: We're also filling in in this initial phase, we're showing a contingency of about $47,000. I hope we don't need that but we try to be really conservative on our numbers. I'd much rather have money left than be falling short so, that contingency will get reduced the further we get into the design or working.., what are designs would be. What construction plans will look like. Todd Gerhardt: When we put the initial budget together we had absolutely no idea what we were up against with this. What the design would be. What would be included in the project, so we put some initial money in there if you remember and knowing that it would probably have to be modified. Damon Farber: We looked at, and just so it didn't look like we're...we did look at a plan that was a $200,000 scheme realizing that was initially what was anticipated. But it really was extremely minimal and it didn't allow... 2 year trying to cut this down, so we did look at that and talked about the reality of it being something that was not that... Todd Gerhardt: And this has been a good government project. We started off at $1.3 million and we've got it down to a million now. Usually it goes the other way and so we're down to about a million in the master phase and a half million dollars for Phase I. Damon Farber: And a lot of those reductions were really at the request of the parks commission or staff, or even input from just people keeping.., that one public meeting we had. It could have been a lot more. We had some fairly elaborate arbors and as it turned out, that really wasn't what the community wanted. So we had to cut back significantly in some of those areas. Acting Mayor Labatt: Damon, where is your plan to put these 3 sculptures? Damon Farber: We have, one sculpture at this point which is at the terminus of the walkway when one walks down the stairs. Here's, we're in here right now. There's a sculpture here. There's another sculpture identified here, and then a third sculpture at this point on here. Now, one of the things about art is that we'd rather not see a piece just placed in the landscape so if there's a specific piece of work that's meant to go in a lawn or meant to go on a pedestal, then we would accommodate that. So we're not forcing this as the location. This is where we're showing it now just in budgetary. Acting Mayor Labatt: What kind of sculpture are you envisioning? 15 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Damon Farber: We have no idea. That's not something that we've identified just yet. And I'm not sure we would. I think that... Acting Mayor Labatt: So where does the $25,000 per sculpture figure come from? Damon Farber: It's an allowance. Based on work that we've done in other projects where we have included sculpture, $25,000 is a basic amount. It's a reasonable amount. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. But that is not in a Phase I? Damon Farber: No, it is not. Acting Mayor Labatt: Any other comments? Councilman Boyle: No. Acting Mayor Labatt: This is a public hearing so we will open this up. Okay, so I'll take this time now to open this portion of the meeting up for a public hearing. We'll be taking public comments from anybody. Councilman Peterson: Motion to close. Acting Mayor Labatt: Second? Councilman Boyle: Second. Acting Mayor Labatt: The public meeting is closed. Okay. Comments? Not to pick on anybody, make you go first but Bob. Councilman Ayotte: The only thing I want to say, and I don't think it should be part, necessarily part of the motion but if we could get an idea of recurring costs to maintain and sustain I think it'd be a good idea so these things could be added to the tax base. If we can do that. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. Craig. I think it's reasonable. I'd move to go to plans and specs. Councilman Peterson: Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay, Gary. Councilman Boyle: No further comments. I would second that motion. Acting Mayor Labatt: I was actually going to hope to add a few items back in here that were pushed out to the master Phase II. Anybody. Councilman Peterson: Actually I wasn't, I misspoke. I didn't really make a motion, even though Gary seconded it. I thank him for that. Acting Mayor Labatt: Well if we want to pull our cost summary sheets here, I've got a few items checked that I'd like to talk about on bringing some things forward. If you guys want to check these when you're going along. 13. 16 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Councilman Ayotte: 13 did you say? Acting Mayor Labatt: Yep. 14. 19. 23. Councilman Peterson: Slow down. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. 26. 33. 37. 39. 45. 47. 57, but I'm willing to negotiate on that one. And 63. Councilman Boyle: Does that mean you're not going to negotiate on the others? Acting Mayor Labatt: No. You know I think that, you know if you're going to put in the, 57's the transformer. If we're going to put in the sidewalk and all that stuff, it would certainly make sense to move the darn thing out of the way and do the sidewalk so it's all one smooth transition. Councilman Ayotte: And were you planning on moving it, planning on moving it it's going to be? Todd Gerhardt: It's something we have to coordinate with Xcel and finding a location that works for them too. Not just where we want it. You've got to find a functional spot when you deal with those issues. Councilman Ayotte: I guess that's my point. So if we were to say go ahead and do that, just as long as that we know that the relocation is not going to move up to $100,000 then I think it's fine but if it's going to have a large cost impact we need to know that. Acting Mayor Labatt: Well I think if it exceeds $30,000, then come back to us and get a change order. But I think that these figures are not to exceed figures. Damon Farber: These figures are estimates. Acting Mayor Labatt: Yeah, and I haven't added up how much. Councilman Peterson: About $110,000. Damon Farber: Okay I, I guess I'm more conservative. I come up with 127 but I may be mistaken. Councilman Peterson: That's a lot of money Steve. Acting Mayor Labatt: Well I'm willing to negotiate like I said. Councilman Peterson: I'll give you 10. Acting Mayor Labatt: 10 items? Councilman Peterson: Thousand. I mean the issue is, we don't have the money currently and I'm concerned that even though we've got another budget year to go through it, we can potentially add them at a later point in time when we had a better sense of what next year's budget's going to be, can't we Todd? 17 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. Councilman Boyle: So we'll have a better handle on what this has cost. Damon Farber: Maybe a suggestion. What we could do is we could develop the contract document in such a way that these would be add alternates. So as we do the work from drawing, we can get a bid. Find out how much it costs, so then you could make that decision about whether or not to include that. Because that way you'll have real numbers. You're not obligated to accept any of those add alternates as far as I know, unless the city has a formula... Todd Gerhardt: Oh no, I love add alternates. It's the way to go. Councilman Boyle: I'd have no problem with that. Steve, if you would accept that. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay, yeah. Councilman Peterson: I'll agree. Todd Gerhardt: Can we talk about landscaping first? I don't know if you can do some add alternates on some of those. Can you, I mean I suspect you can deduct as many of the line items but I'm looking you know a holiday tree and special maple. The thing I think the council needs to talk about here, do you want it donated or do you want to buy it is kind of where you're going. Councilman Boyle: We wanted it donated. Councilman Peterson: I'm not uncomfortable approving Steve's recommendations on landscaping because I think that's going to make it more inviting. We talked about this before. I'd rather go more on the green. Add the physical benches, etc, etc, later if we have the money. So I'm certainly not adverse to approving now the landscaping additions Steve mentioned. As far as the furniture and other items, I'd recommend doing an add alternate on that. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. I'd go along with that. Councilman Boyle: Even if they are donated at a later time, the check would still go back to the city and into this budget, could it not? Todd Gerhardt: Well we have lots of room out here for donated trees if you look at the difference between Phase I and master plan. If you look at the shaded trees. That's why we didn't include all the trees is that we wanted to have some trees to be donated. Memorial trees or however you want to label them, you know after the fact. But when you've got what's called the special tree, do you want Chanhassen Bank known as the holiday tree is where I'm going with it. Do you want to start advertising some of these because. Councilman Boyle: I think you should. Councilman Peterson: I would agree. I make a motion to approve this going to plans and specs as amended with Steve's comments. Acting Mayor Labatt: Minus the. 18 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Councilman Peterson: Minus the landscaping, landscaping is a go. Everything else is add alternates just as Steve's recommendations. Acting Mayor Labatt: Is that clear Damon? Damon Farber: Yes it is. Everything through line 28 becomes 29, those are the base bids in Phase I. Everything below than then we talked about now comes.., bid alternates. Acting Mayor Labatt: Correct. Good, thanks Craig. So we've got a motion. Is there a second? Councilman Boyle: Second. Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Boyle seconded to authorize Damon Farber Associates to prepare detailed plans and specifications for Phase I of the City Center Commons as amended. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDER REPLATTING OF SCHNEIDER PARK 2N~ ADDITION, CITY OF CHANHASSEN. APPROVAL OF PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT. PUBLIC HEARING ON VACATION OF DRAINAGE AND UTILITY EASMENTS AND PORTIONS OF RIGHT-OF-WAY. Todd Gerhardt: I think Matt is prepared to talk about Schneider Park 2nd Addition. As a part of the library construction project we're trying to clean up some of the platting and vacating of existing right-of-way and easements in this area and Matt is going to tell you which ones. Matt Saam: Thanks Todd. Right in about the center of the proposed library there's an existing sewer and water line which runs north/south. Obviously with the building going there, that's going to need to be moved. It's coming over here to the east of the building. We'll get a new easement with the final plat. Without the line being here anymore there's no need to have the easements so we're recommending vacating that. And as Todd said, there's some minor right-of- way clean-up that we're doing along Kerber Boulevard, West 78th Street and we're dedicating additional right-of-way on Market. That in essence is everything for the vacation so unless you have any questions for me, I'd be happy to answer them. Todd Gerhardt: It is a public hearing, just a reminder. Acting Mayor Labatt: Anyone wishing to public comment on this, please step forward. Seeing none, close public hearing. Is there a motion? Councilman Boyle: This takes two motions? Matt Saam: Yes. Acting Mayor Labatt: Go ahead Gary. Todd Gerhardt: Matt, it's all one resolution, correct? Matt Saam: Yes .... one resolution. 19 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Councilman Boyle: Motion that we approve a resolution vacating the existing drainage and utility easement and right-of-way as shown on the Schneider Park 2nd Addition final plat with the subject conditions. Councilman Peterson: Second. Resolution #2002-50A: Councilman Boyle moved, Councilman Peterson seconded to approve a resolution vacating an existing drainage and utility easement and right-of-way as shown on the Schneider Park 2nd Addition final plat, subject to the following condition: 1. Legal description of the areas to be vacated must be supplied to the city for recording. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. Councilman Boyle: Make a motion that the council approve the preliminary plat and a resolution for the final plat for Schneider Park 2nd Addition as shown on plans prepared by Brandt Engineering and Surveying, subject to the list of conditions 1 through 4. Acting Mayor Labatt: Second? Councilman Peterson: Second. Resolution#2002-50B: Councilman Boyle moved, Councilman Peterson seconded to approve the preliminary plat and a resolution for the final plat for Schneider Park 2nd Addition, as shown on the plans prepared by Brandt Engineering and Surveying, subject to the following conditions: 1. Revise the plans to state ;;East line of the SW ¼ of the SW ¼, Sec. 12.T. 116,R.23". 2. Move the property line between Lots 1 and 2, Block 1, eleven (11) feet to the south to allow for maximum flexibility for possible future additions or building on Lot 1. 3. The plat shall be revised to change the street name to Kerber Boulevard and show the vacated street in the middle of the plat as City Center Drive. 4. The drainage and utility easement shall be labeled on the plat. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. RECEIVE AND APPROVE PLANS FOR A 6 FOOT TRAIL ALONG HIGHWAY 101 NORTH, PROJECT 97-12-3. Matt Saam: Thank you Acting Mayor, Council members. Recently staff was directed to look at difference in costs for the construction of a 6 foot trail along Highway 101 as compared with an 8 foot trail along Highway 101. The City's consultant on this project, HTPO has drawn up plans for a 6 foot trail. They're here tonight. The cost difference between the 6 foot trail and the 8 foot trail is approximately $107,000. Joel Rutherford of HTPO is here. He'll briefly go over the differences in the plans between the 6 foot and the 8 foot trail. Councilman Boyle: I'll bet it's 2 feet. 20 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Matt Saam: That's most of the difference. Todd Gerhardt: Nothing gets by Gary. Joel Rutherford: Thank you council. I'll just try to go through this very briefly, and show you the main differences between the 8 foot trail and the 6 foot trail. Basically the money savings resulting from those changes. Plans pretty much look very much like they did the last time. Some of the changes, I'm not sure how easily this will show up in the screen but a typical section now for the 6 foot trail. Previously we showed 1 foot shoulders. There will be some areas where there will be rock shoulder but for the most part the standard 1 foot shoulder on each side has been eliminated. In this area, the rest area, that also shows a 6 foot trail so there's some savings there. Per the sheet, the alignment to the trail has pretty much stayed the same. We did some changes to this rest area. Originally it came out more into the open space of the park. There was some concern that that was using up some of that open space so we tried to change that slightly so that we're not using as much of that open space that was shown on the previous plan. One of the issues that came up at the last meeting was why not bring the trail, keep it in the MnDot right-of- way. You can kind of see, there's a small wetland area in here. There is some impact with the trail but to minimize the impact we chose this route versus coming all the way through. Going north along the trail. The alignment pretty much stays the same. There is less impact to the adjoining property owners so there will be fewer parcels that will require easements based on a 6 foot trail which is one of the more significant changes in going from an 8 foot to a 6 foot. Again the alignment is pretty much the same as it was before. The width is just narrower. Some issues that came up at the last meeting. There was an earlier plan that showed a catch basin at this location. The last plan showed that not being there anymore. We have since added that back and just for a fair comparison, the cost estimate for the 8 foot trail also included that storm sewer so we tried to compare apples to apples here. You can see the true difference. Councilman Peterson: That was a discussion where the water was flowing towards, back towards the lake. Joel Rutherford: Exactly. It flowed, the current drainage basically flows down this property line and there was some question about some standing water and some issues with that hydrant and... go ahead and add that structure back. There's some additional costs of course but it will help reduce the amount of water going down that property line .... it has been a problem in the past. In this area, again the alignment is pretty much the same. It's going from an 8 foot to a 6 foot. The same thing through this area. This area in here, because of the existing, because of an existing retaining wall and the amount of room to work with, the width through there pretty much has stayed the same. It was proposed to be a 6 foot wide trail through there, even with the previous plan so that area as we state is the same as a 6 foot trail. Councilman Boyle: Is that where the sign is that says, what's the name of that? Todd Gerhardt: Colonial Grove? Councilman Boyle: There's a sign, the name of the neighborhood. Councilman Ayotte: Fox Hollow? Councilman Boyle: But is there room to put 8 foot from the sign to the road? It looks like it's pretty close now. It's Sandy Hook isn't it? 21 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Joel Rutherford: Yeah, Sandy Hook Road. There is an existing retaining wall which doesn't allow the full 6 feet with the current edge of the pavement. What we're proposing to do is take out that retaining wall and move it back to the right-of-way line so that we do have 6 feet. The original concept plan I think show it being a 3 foot right-of-way which MnDot was very much opposed to that so we look at moving that retaining wall back so that we can get at least 6 feet. Todd Gerhardt: So will any of the trail be in the right mm lane there? There's a partial right mm lane. Joel Rutherford: The partial right mm lane should remain pretty much where it's at and there is a curb there, I believe it's bituminous curb so from that curb back to the new retaining wall will give us a 6 foot trail. Todd Gerhardt: And you don't know if it's going to impact the sign that's there or not? Joel Rutherford: It shouldn't. Now when you say sign, is it like an entrance monument? Councilman Boyle: Yes. Joel Rutherford: Yeah. Councilman Boyle: On both sides of the street. Joel Rutherford: Our plan is to not disturb those. And it appears as though we can do that. Further to the north.., but the alignment sticks pretty much to the same. Just narrowing the width. It moves slightly towards one direction or the other... We need to maintain some ditch along the, make that right-of-way for drainage so we work with the trail...to keep that ditch. Again, pretty much the same alignment. As well as in this section. This drawing shows some of the detail of some of the larger retaining walls that are required. One's near the beginning of the project. It's about 250 feet long or so. Up to 15 feet high. So whether it's a 6 foot trail or an 8 foot trail, we still have the construction of these large retaining walls which is a very significant cost. Pretty substantial. There wasn't really any large savings.., from a 6, or excuse me, from an 8 to a 6 foot with these large retaining walls. Matt Saam: IfI could just add. The retaining walls are the item that staff was hoping would be able to be reduced going from the 8 to the 6 foot, and as Joel said, it appears there won't be much savings so. Joel Rutherford: Especially the large ones. There's a couple of the smaller ones there will be some reductions but on the larger ones, there really wasn't a lot that could be done. Cross sections. It's kind of hard to go through these. There are some changes that allowed some cost savings. Councilman Boyle: Do we want to see that council? Acting Mayor Labatt: Do you want to see it? Councilman Boyle: No. Matt Saam: Thanks Joel. As previously stated, HTPO's cost estimate of potential savings between the 8 and the 6 foot trail would be approximately $107,000. It's staff's opinion that that 22 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 amount, when you compare it to the total project amount of $1.3 million, it's less than 10 percent. Our opinion that that amount is insufficient to justify the decrease or reduction in pavement width. In addition there's also increased maintenance costs which the city would have to realize. To discuss those a little more in detail, Todd Hoffman, our City Parks Director. Todd Hoffman: Thanks Matt. In general let's go over a couple of things regarding maintenance and if the council has additional questions, I'd be glad to answer those. First of all I want to commend the council in getting this far on this trail. It's been a long time coming. The one thing I don't want to see happen is that we cannot provide the citizens with a product that they deserve and that they would like to see if we reduce this to a 6 foot trail versus an 8. The city standard trail width is 8 feet. We have approximately 30 miles of those trails in the city at present. And each time that it snows, those are plowed using a pick-up truck. Sometimes on multiple occasions throughout a day as additional snow is moved onto the trails from road maintenance. In the case of Highway 101, we'll have no control over the timing of the other agencies snow plowing so there's no chance for coordination there. If we go out and plow it on a Monday morning after a snowfall and they come back and plow 3 hours later, if we want to maintain that to a reasonable expectation, then we'll need to get back out there and maintain it. If we go with a 6 foot trail, you can do that with a piece of machinery we already own is a bobcat, which is very slow. Very inefficient to complete a maintenance operations on a mile and half section of trail. Or purchase what Eden Prairie has 4 of which is an articulated snow removal machine at a cost of about $50,000 or $60,000 for that single piece of equipment to maintain a single section of trail. We also do sweeping and presently we sweep all these trails, not only during the spring and fall but periodically during the summer with a tractor which fits on an 8 foot trail but would not fit on a 6 foot trail, and so we would have difficulty maintaining again to the level of expectation that we would think those residents would have. They've waited this long to get the same trail. You would think they'd have the same expectation to have the same level of maintenance. So I just wanted the council to be aware that again, if we have $107,000, I think we're going to quickly eat away at those savings through increased labor hours and maintenance and machinery hours, or machinery purchases that we need to make to go ahead and maintain that trail. And if there's any other questions in that area. I strongly support an 8 foot trail and would be glad to elaborate further. Councilman Boyle: Matt, how many feet of 6 foot do, I mean regardless whether we go 8 or not, how many feet would be 6 feet? Linear feet would be a 6 foot width. Do you recall? Matt Saam: Joel, is that a mile and a half? Joel Rutherford: The total length of the project is about 9,100 feet. Councilman Boyle: Right, but you indicated there is a certain section that's going to be 6 foot regardless. Joel Rutherford: Okay. That section I estimate would be about 200 and 200 feet long. Councilman Boyle: So you would have to take special equipment to take care of that portion anyway Todd? Todd Hoffman: At present we have a similar segment. We have an identical situation in Minnewashta Parkway. We just simply jump off and jump back on and so that section is not maintained during the winter and people just track through it. We don't find the time or the way 23 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 to get back out there with a different piece of equipment to go ahead and manage that small section of trail. Councilman Boyle: Okay. Todd Gerhardt: Joel, can you show us where that, where those sections are? The 200 and 200 feet of 6 foot. Joel Rutherford: It's actually, it looks like it's a little bit less than that. It's about from this point here to about here, which is probably a little bit over 100 feet. Todd Gerhardt: Is there a guardrail there because that's a right mm lane too. Joel Rutherford: It's a right mm lane. There's curb, but there's no guardrail proposed. Todd Gerhardt: So the trail's on the back side of the curb? Joel Rutherford: Correct. Todd Gerhardt: So Todd could physically go out there with a pick-up and clean off that trail or push it forward. Todd Hoffman: We're not restricted at that location. Joel Rutherford: No, it's basically, and I can probably show you on the cross sections. There's a retaining wall on the one side. This is a typical section through that area. Here's the curb. Here's the trail and here's the retaining wall so there's no guardrail or any other obstruction. Todd Hoffman: In that section you could maintain it just by hanging the plow off the one side. But in this area in Minnewashta Parkway we're bound in by trees on one side and... Councilman Boyle: I understand. Okay, thank you. Councilman Ayotte: IfI could ask a question of counsel. Is it reasonable to suspect that if someone would not want to sign or authorize an easement, does that scenario, is that a possibility that we would have holes in the trail where people would not agree to allow us to. Tom Scott: Well I'm hopeful that we can acquire all the easements voluntarily but if not, we would need to go to condemnation to acquire the easements. Councilman Ayotte: And is it advantageous in terms of at least seeing where our hard spots are to have a request for quote in the bidding process to include both 6 foot and 8 foot only from the standpoint of having the additional cost data point and if we do have an easement issue, that we have that as an option to consider? In segments. Tom Scott: I can't say I have a real good, well let me say this. I've had some discussions with the city engineer and in fact we're meeting with an appraiser later this week to get some general ideas on what range of compensation they may be looking at on the easements, but my general impression is that, and I may live to regret these words but I don't think the easement acquisition costs here looks like it's significant on any of these parcels. My sense is that we're not disrupting any retaining walls. We're not going to take down any large trees. I'm looking at the consultant 24 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 to correct me if I'm wrong, so we're just basically looking at a lot of these parcels are just very narrow 5 foot temporary construction easements and the vast majority of them, the actual trail width, and I'm referring to the 8 foot trail, do not even go onto the parcels. They're within the right-of-way and we're just looking at acquiring some temporary construction easements. My sense is that the easement acquisition costs on the 8 foot trail, because that's the plans I've seen, I don't think are particularly significant. Councilman Ayotte: I was just looking to see if there's any hard points. If there's any reason, I don't understand the recommendation completely. Are you recommending that we go out for bids that would reference both the 6 foot trail and an 8 foot trail? Matt Saam: No. The latest recommendation, since we received the plans late Thursday or early Friday was to approve the 6 foot trail plans, but authorize advertisement for bids on the 8 foot trail so basically going ahead with the 8 foot trail. Councilman Ayotte: Would there be any problem in also getting the cost data in the request for quotes for the 6 foot, just so that we have another cross data point? Matt Saam: No other than I would think additional paperwork. I mean you could advertise both, if that's what you're asking, sure. Councilman Peterson: Do as a bid alternate. That's the easiest way to do it. Matt Saam: You could do that too. Councilman Boyle: But why? Councilman Ayotte: As an additional data point for negotiation purposes for one. Councilman Peterson: Right now we don't know the costs, and we'll have a much better analysis if there's $107,000. What if it's $200,000 say? We don't know. Councilman Boyle: Okay. Todd Gerhardt: One of the things you, Mayor ifI may add to that. That kind of what you're asking to do is to take quotes on a 6 foot section and an 8 foot section and right now the project is broken into phases. I think it's 4 or 5. 5 phases. And typically what you do on most of these projects is do it by quantity. We did not do that. Or we did on some of the quantity but it's broken into phases. You can still do the phase if you bid it out plans and specs on a quantity basis or linear foot of trail. And then you can decide if you want to cut the project down, you decide where you want to do that. Based on the current plans and specs, you're kind of handcuffed. You have to pick which one of those segments that you want to do, correct Joel? Joel Rutherford: Yeah, you could still modify within each of those schedules the different phases. Like you could reduce or increase them. Todd Gerhardt: But wouldn't it be a little more flexible and easier for you to bid this out instead of doing it in phases based on a linear foot or quantity set of specifications than a 5 phase project? Joel Rutherford: That's correct. And not only easier for me, but it's actually easier for the contractor. You know when it comes time to determining the lowest responsible bidder. When 25 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 you have a lot of different schedules and alternatives, you make it confusing on who is the low bidder because depending upon how you pick and choose the schedules. Councilman Ayotte: That's just for source selection. We still would have the ability to issue and go forward on a segment of the trail versus. Joel Rutherford: contract. Right. So you always have the option of reducing once you've awarded the Todd Gerhardt: ... have one contractor that's low on 3 of the phases. Councilman Ayotte: I understand. I'm just saying we still have the option to assess the scope. Acting Mayor Labatt: We don't want that. Todd Gerhardt: We don't want that. Councilman Ayotte: So we just want to go with the plan right now, I'd like to have two data points, 6 foot and 8 foot. Go with the quantity and then consider what would be the option after we receive the bids. Todd Gerhardt: Does that make sense? Joel Rutherford: Yes. Todd Gerhardt: Okay. So if you had the 5, you'd have two sets of 5 bids. One for the 6 foot trail and one with the 8 foot trail. If you were to keep all 5 phases in there. Councilman Peterson: I'd make a motion that we approve the 6 foot plans as approved, the 8 foot plans as approved on May 13th and the 6 foot trail as approved on May 28th, and go with the 6 foot with the 8 foot as a bid alternate. Councilman Ayotte: And do it on a quantity basis versus segment. Councilman Peterson: Yes. Is that clear? Councilman Ayotte: I second that. Councilman Boyle: May we have some comment? Discussion. Acting Mayor Labatt: Yeah. Councilman Boyle: I see where you're coming from but based upon what I've heard from staff and the consultant, I don't understand the 6 foot. I think we ought to stay at the 8 foot. That's just my thoughts. Councilman Peterson: I'm not deciding tonight whether I'm going with a 6 or 8. All I'm saying now is get dollars. Councilman Boyle: Okay. 26 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Acting Mayor Labatt: I'm with you Gary but, so will this delay any sort of this project by looking at a 6 foot alternative? Matt Saam: I don't think so. Joel, what's your opinion on that. They can bid both of them just as easy as one of them. Joel Rutherford: Yeah. Both plans are essentially completed so. Acting Mayor Labatt: So what happens if we get 5 bidders. 4 of them bid for just the 6 foot trail, one bids for an 8 foot trail. Joel Rutherford: Well they'll both bid for both. Acting Mayor Labatt: Are you sure? Joel Rutherford: They're required to. Acting Mayor Labatt: They're required to bid for both, okay. Matt Saam: Their amounts Steve just might be a lot higher on the one they don't want to do. That's what you might see. Councilman Ayotte: They'd be non-responsive if they didn't respond to both. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay, so we'll see X number of companies will have bids for 6 and 8 foot from both companies. Matt Saam: Right. Councilman Boyle: Gee, maybe we ought to throw 4 foot in there too. Acting Mayor Labatt: How about 127 Okay so, Craig can you repeat your motion? Councilman Peterson: Paraphrasing it, I'd move to approve the 6 foot trail as presented this evening, going to plans and specs with an 8 foot bid alternate. And presenting it all in quantity in linear square feet. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. Is there a second? Councilman Ayotte: I second that. Resolution/t2002-51: Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded to approve the 6 foot trail plans and authorize advertisement for bids for the 6 foot trail with an 8 foot bid alternate. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. Acting Mayor Labatt: Thanks Matt. Okay. 6, Council presentations. Under new business we have nothing. Sure, under new business Tom you can. Come on up. Tom Workman: I wasn't going to say anything. I just, Tom Workman, 181 South Shore Court and on one of the first pages of the diagram, I don't see anybody else from my neighborhood here 27 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 tonight so I figured I'd better say something. That South Lotus, little dippity doo in the park. It looks like they've reduced the resting area. But what peaked my curiosity was that along that roadway is a wetland, and what is now a wetland right here. Somebody did some utility work there I'll say 7 years ago or so. We had a different city engineer and she lived across the road in those apartments and so, and me living on the other side I said they've made a wetland there after they came in. I think it was electric or gas or somebody came in there and did some construction and buried some things under there. There's a new, 7 years ago there's a meter there. A new meter there that kind of makes some noise every once in a while. I think it's gas. But all of a sudden I saw cattails coming out of there that had never been there before so if we're not going to put this trail here because of a wetland that I know wasn't there too long ago and we sort of, the utility company never came back and corrected whatever it was that they were supposed to do. I did tell the city engineer that. And I'm not sure that the neighborhood has a big problem with the trail going where it is. Is that trail between the new trees, evergreens and the old trees? Joel Rutherford: Yes. Tom Workman: Because I don't know that that would be a problem but when somebody said well there's a wetland there, that's a man made, utility made wetland that was never there 10 years ago. Councilman Ayotte: It's not a bonafide wetland? We don't have that registered as a wetland. Tom Workman: I just thought I'd get that on the record and tell you. Thanks. That's all. Councilman Boyle: Thank you. Acting Mayor Labatt: And for Tom I got a phone call from the Chapel Hill Academy 4th grade class, they had a wonderful tour. Thanks to you and Senator Oliver for meeting with them. Appreciate that. Tom Workman: We knew they were from Chanhassen because they were smart and good looking. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay, thanks Tom. Appreciate that. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: COUNCIL/COMMISSION LIAISON UPDATE. None. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: CARVER COUNTY REDISTRICTING PLAN. Acting Mayor Labatt: Julianne Ortman our County Commissioner is here. Did you want to talk? Julianne Ortman: Good evening. I'm Julianne Ortman. I am the Carver County Commissioner from Chanhassen District 1 and I have already presented to the members of the City Council my thoughts on the current redistricting plan that was approved by the Carver County Board of Commissioners last Tuesday and so I leave it in your capable hands to determine what action, if any, to take from this point forward. Thank you for listening to me earlier during the work session. I appreciate it. Acting Mayor Labatt: Thank you Julianne. 28 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Julianne Ortman: And of course I should say I'm here to answer any questions you may have about it as well. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. Well we had discussed earlier, and do you want to discuss any more? Councilman Peterson: No, I think that at least what I heard, and correct me if I'm wrong. The consensus of this group was that we direct the city manager to look at alternatives for City Council to pursue to potentially change the recommendation that the Carver County Commissioners has come forward with as of today. Councilman Ayotte: Well and to add onto that, we need to also discuss those alternatives relatively soon. Get it onto an agenda post haste so that. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. We'll find out what the deadline is. Do all the research and the viability of anything, if anything. Councilman Boyle: The expense. I would also like Todd that you check with some of the other cities to see if they have the same concerns we have. Well not all the other cities but Waconia for example. Or maybe Victoria too. Councilman Peterson: Is that appropriate for a closed session, from the potential issues that we'll be discussing. I don't want to, I know the posting of that is more important and I don't want to miss that. Tom Scott: I wasn't at the work session so I'm not, I don't really have much detail on the situation you're talking about but, so I'd be speculating as to whether it's something you'd do in a closed session. Generally you have.., a court case that came down within the last month that even made it a little more tighter, the rules on going into an executive session. If there's a pending lawsuit, an actual lawsuit going on, but if there's not, then it gets a little iffy as to under what circumstances you can go into an executive session. So I'm just not generally, because I'm not specifically familiar with what you're addressing. Councilman Peterson: Well I guess simply reinforcing what Councilman Ayotte said to Todd, let's move it dispatch and give us your recommendations and alternatives that we can pursue. Does that summarize the thoughts gentlemen? Acting Mayor Labatt: Yeah I would, I think the four of us are on the same page. Paragraph even. Maybe sentence on that one. Okay, so we'll just leave it at that direction. There's no need for a motion? Todd Gerhardt: No. Acting Mayor Labatt: Julianne. Julianne Ortman: IfI could make one more comment Mr. Mayor. I believe that the time line here is critical. That there are a matter of days, not weeks before any kind of appeal or request for consideration by a court could be made and I'm not here to advise the board legally but only let you know what my understanding is. That this is a matter that must be undertaken immediately if it's going to be undertaken at all. 29 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. Councilman Peterson: It's dispatch with a capital D. Acting Mayor Labatt: Well with that, do we need to look at advertising a special session for Friday that meets the requirements? Councilman Peterson: I think Todd needs to find out the time frame and then make a decision from there so. Councilman Boyle: If we need a special session. Todd Gerhardt: We just need to post 3 days ahead of time so is all you need to do to have a special meeting. Acting Mayor Labatt: If we post today, could we still meet on Friday? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. You can meet on Thursday. Acting Mayor Labatt: Today is Tuesday though. Tom Scott: If you post today you can meet on Friday. Today's Tuesday so. Todd Gerhardt: Oh today's Tuesday. Tom Scott: So, you don't count the date you post it but you count the day of the meeting so you'd have to post today to be on Friday. Post it tomorrow, the earliest would be Saturday. Acting Mayor Labatt: How do we feel if we post today for a meeting on Friday? Councilman Peterson: I think he needs to get more information. He may not have the information. We may have a 10 day deadline and I'd rather have all the information. Acting Mayor Labatt: We can always cancel the meeting. I don't want to get to the point if we miss tomorrow and all of a sudden we have to meet on Saturday. We can always cancel the meeting. Councilman Peterson: You're right. Acting Mayor Labatt: I'd rather have a ace in the hole here. Councilman Boyle: Makes sense. Acting Mayor Labatt: And I'm not sure about Mayor Jansen's availability but. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor? Acting Mayor. We can just continue this meeting if you want to pick a day and then you don't have to post. Just don't. Tom Scott: We could add this item to our, it's not on our current agenda is it? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. 30 City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002 Tom Scott: Was it on the work session? Todd Gerhardt: No, right now. Acting Mayor Labatt: We're on it right now. Tom Scott: You could not adjourn this meeting and then you could continue this meeting to, if you wanted to do it Thursday night or whatever, you could continue the meeting for that particular item to another date. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay I follow you. Tom Scott: Yes. So it'd just be a continuation of this meeting. Not adjourn the meeting. Continue it for that item to whatever date you want. Acting Mayor Labatt: Friday at what time is good for you? 12:007 12:307 Councilman Peterson: I'd say 11:30-12:00. Acting Mayor Labatt: How about 12:00. Bob? Councilman Ayotte: That's fine. Acting Mayor Labatt: Gary? Councilman Boyle: Fine. Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. Todd Gerhardt: Make a motion? Tom Scott: So we would, yeah. Councilman Peterson: I make a motion that we continue this meeting until 12:00 noon this coming Friday. Councilman Boyle: Second. Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Boyle seconded to continue the City Council meeting to Friday, May 31, 2002 at 12:00 noon. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 31