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CC Minutes 2002 08 12CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING AUGUST 12, 2002 Mayor Jansen called the meeting to order at 7:0S p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Jansen, Councilman Labatt and Councilman Peterson COUNCILMEMBERS ABSENT: Councilman Boyle and Councilman Ayotte STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Roger Knutson, Justin Miller, Todd Hoffman, Sharmin A1- Jaff, and Bob Generous PUBLIC PRESENT FOR ALL ITEMS: Janet Paulsen Rich Slagle LuAnn Sidney 7305 Laredo Drive Planning Commissioner Planning Commissioner PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Mayor Jansen: We have a couple of changes to the agenda that I'll mention right up front. We will be removing item 3(a) and (b) at the request of the applicant. That will be moved to our next meeting agenda. We are adding an executive session. Counsel, if you could share with us the description for our executive session please. Roger Knutson: Thank you Mayor. Following this meeting we'll have an executive or closed meeting to discuss pending litigation involving a condemnation matter with Mr. Pryzmus for a drainage and utility easement. The purpose of the meeting, closed meeting is just to discuss litigation strategy. Thank you Mayor. Mayor Jansen: Thank you. Moving on, we have no public announcements. Obviously our only announcement is we're two council members short this evening, unfortunately, but we will proceed with our, we still have a majority of the council present so we will continue with the agenda. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Labatt seconded to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations: Resolution #2002-68: Receive Sidewalk Feasibility Study; Call for Public Hearing, Project PWl91. Resolution #2002-69: Approve Easement Agreements for Trunk Highway 101 Trail Project 97-12-3. Resolution #2002-70: Approve Condemnation Resolution for Parcel 29 of the TH 101 Trail Noah Project 97-12-3. City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 f. Approval of Amended Hunting Zones. Authorization to Sign a Letter of Understanding with the League of Minnesota Cities for the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) Phase II Stormwater Guide Plan. Resolution #2002-71: Approval of Election Judges and Rates of Pay for the Primary Election, as amended. Resolution #2002-73: Approve Resolution Amending the Membership List for the Southwest Mutual Aid Association. j. Approve Budget Amendment for the Marsh Glen Trail Connector Budget. k. Approval of Bills. Approval of Minutes: -City Council Work Session Minutes dated July 22, 2002 -City Council Minutes dated July 22, 2002 Receive Commission Minutes: -Planning Commission Minutes dated July 16, 2002 Resolution #2002-72: Approve Resolution Supporting an Application for a Limited Use Permit for Construction of a Trail Adjacent to TH 101 from Lake Susan Drive to Bandimere Park and Adjacent to TH 5 at Bluff Creek and Riley Creek, Project RA-630. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 3 to 0. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: Pete Keller: Good evening Madam Mayor, esteem Council members. My name is Pete Keller and I live at 6760 Country Oaks Road, Excelsior, but it's really in the northwest comer of Chanhassen. I've served on a city commission previously and am aware of the time and the effort you all put in and I want to thank you for your dedication to the City. I'm a stay at home dad, and in July of 1999 while playing the backyard with the children in my daycare business, I began aware of some activity in the property directly behind our home. A church that was known as Holy Cross Lutheran Church. Conditional Use Permit 99-3 turned out to be that activity. And after many evenings in this room and contrary to our city ordinance, the council approved 105 foot communications tower in this residentially zoned church property on March 13th of 2000. If I may, I have a very small packet for each of you so you may follow along as I speak. May I hand that out? Mayor Jansen: Sure. Pete Keller: Pages 1 and 2 indicate the 8 conditions of the permit. Page 3 has the approved site plan of the tower, and page 4 shows the site and what's actually there today. The permit was issued to two parties. The first is US West Wireless, which is now Qwest Wireless, and as we know from the paper on the verge of bankruptcy. The second is Holy Cross Lutheran Church which has gone out of business. However the mortgage was and still is held by Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America and Lutheran Brotherhood. However the property is now owned City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 and operated by Mount Calvary Lutheran Church in Excelsior. Since the construction began in June of 2000, none of the parties to date are interested in meeting the conditions of the permit, which actually doesn't surprise me as they had to file a lawsuit against our city on March 10th of 1999 the Council approved this project. What I find exceptionally frustrating is the inability of our staff to make the parties comply with the conditions of the permit, or to use the financial guarantees US West Wireless submitted at the time the permit was issued. Looking at the conditions on page 1 of the packet I gave you, condition 1 concerning landscaping has not been met. Condition 7 concerning the fencing has not been met. However the biggest problem is the tower itself is in the wrong place according to the approved site plan on page 3 of your packet. And there is no mention in the permit of the metal cable that runs the full height of the tower on the outside and bangs quite loudly against it on windy days. Page 4 of the packet there shows what is actually on the site today that pertains to this permit. I've personally brought these problems to the attention of our planning, our engineering, our inspections departments, both of the city managers involved, as well to all three groups of the Lutherans at the church over the years. All to no avail. Unfortunately our home has an unobstructed view of the tower all day, and thanks to the flood lighting of the tower, we see it all night as well and that's why I care. My purpose here tonight is to beg you to direct staff to abandon the idea that the utility or the Lutherans are going to bring this project into compliance. Three separate attempts in the last 2 ½ years by different parties have all failed resulting in standing dead trees, trees placed well outside the project site, and no effort has been made to address the lack of fencing, the incorrect tower placement or the metal cable issues. It's time to draw on the letter of credit that the City has from the utility to get the job done either with our people or to hire it out to a competent contractor. Or better yet, this would be up to Roger, have the permit revoked for lack of compliance and have the tower taken down. Madam Mayor, your letter in the recent Chanhassen Connection inspired me to be here tonight and...that this project should be easy to complete, even if it is long overdue. I appreciate your encouraging words. I'd be happy to answer any questions and I do have some pictures of the site. If that would be helpful. Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you. Pete Keller: Seeing none, thanks again for your dedication to the City, for your time this evening and hopefully for your help in getting this permit into compliance. And lastly, hello to Tyler and Ryan, it's time to go to bed. Thank you. Mayor Jansen: Thank you Mr. Keller. It's standard procedure for us to refer these issues that come up under visitor presentation to staff so that they do have an opportunity to look at the information versus putting anyone on the spot this evening so appreciate your sharing the information with us and I know that staff has been working to try to rectify this situation so we will certainly get an update from them and get back to you. Pete Keller: Thank you. Mayor Jansen: Thank you. Okay, we'll move on if there's anyone else present that has an issue under visitor presentations that you'd like to bring to the council's attention, you can approach the podium at this time. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ON-SALE BEER & WINE LICENSE, CSM ENTERPRISES DBA FRANKIES PIZZA, PASTA & RIBS, 7850 MARKET BOULEVARD, CHRIS MONSON. City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, Council members. Frankies Pizza, Pasta and Ribs is requesting an on- sale beer and wine license. The establishment applied for, and received an on-sale beer and wine license in '96. During that time they have had difficulty in paying their sales tax. In January of 2002 received another notification that sales tax was up to date and that the license could be reinstated if the applicant reapplied. Their background check has been positive and staff is recommending approval. Mayor Jansen: You got choked up over that one. That's okay. Any questions for staff at this point? Any questions for staff at this point? Okay, seeing none. This is a public hearing. If there is anyone present that would like to address the council on this agenda item, certainly step forward to the podium at this time. Seeing no one, we will close the public hearing and bring this back to council. Council, comments or a motion please. Councilman Peterson: Motion to approve. Mayor Jansen: And a second? Councilman Labatt: Second. Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Labatt seconded to approve an on-sale beer and wine license for CSM Enterprises dba Frankies Pizza, Pasta and Ribs at 7850 Market Boulevard contingent upon receipt of the license fee and the liquor liability insurance. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 3 to 0. Mayor Jansen: As I mentioned at the beginning of the meeting, agenda item number 3, the Steven Cohoon project has been removed at the applicant's request and we will be reviewing that agenda item at the next council meeting. Which is probably a good idea because we do only have 3 council people present so hopefully we'll have a full compliment of the council at that time. AMENDMENT TO SITE PLAN FOR CHAPEL HILL ACADEMY GYMNASIUM BUILDING, PHASE I. Public Present: Name Address Dan Blake Julia Sharma David Happe Kathy Schroeder Susan O'Brien Kelby Bailey 306 West 78th Street 6300 Oxbow Bend 604 Summerfield 7720 Frontier Trail 6628 Aster Trail 6580 Pleasant View Way Sharmin A1-Jaff: Thank you Madam Mayor, members of the City Council. On August 28th of the year 2000 the City Council approved Phase I of the master plan for Chapel Hill Academy. Basically this master plan included four phases. Phase I had a classroom addition as well as a gymnasium. The site is located pretty much in the center of a residential neighborhood. The north and the east portion of this site is residential, as well as the northwest portion. One of our concerns when we went through this process the first time was the size of the materials that were going to be used on the exterior of the building. This is a utility sized block and this is what the applicant, I'm sorry. A jumbo sized block. And this is what the applicant was proposing to use City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 on the exterior of the building. Typically within a residential neighborhood you have either this size of brick or siding. As a compromise the recommendation was to utilize a utility size material, and there was quite a bit of discussion on this item. Our role is to implement your decisions. There is a difference in opinion as to what was approved by the City Council at that time. Our understanding, and based upon the way we read the plans, the lower portion or the base of the entire building was to be constructed of the jumbo sized block. Everything other than that would have to be a utility size brick or block. The applicant's understanding of what was approved was the gymnasium portion, which is a 27 foot tall building, was to be constructed of the jumbo block. The area that is located north, south of the gymnasium, which is where the locker rooms are supposed to be. That area would be brick. Again, our understanding was the entire structure would utilize the utility size bricks or blocks rather than the jumbo size. The only place where our understanding, the only place where you would use the jumbo block would be along the bottom portion of the building. Councilman Peterson: How high? Sharmin A1-Jaff: Approximately, it's the area that is immediately under the windows and all the plans indicate it's the red brick that, or the red block that you see out there today. Approximately 2 ½ to 3 feet. Other issues that have come in dealing with this application, as we were looking at the building permit, include a sidewalk. Phase I included a sidewalk that connected the gymnasium with the rest of the building. Our concern of course is to separate pedestrian traffic from vehicular traffic, and that's one of the reasons why we would like to see the sidewalk put in at this time. The entry way off of Great Plains Boulevard has been eliminated at this point, and the intent is to add it at some point in the future. This is a fairly large, unadorned elevation. Whenever you have entryways that are pronounced, people know that this is where they need to enter. So it's a dual purpose. It's identifying entrance into the gymnasium as well as adding an architectural element to that elevation. Third issue deals with painted block along the south elevation which faces West 78th. The gymnasium is in this area. What you see out here is locker rooms. The applicant wishes to delay the building of the locker rooms to a later date, so basically this wall which faces West 78th, at some point will become an interior wall. At this time they would like to use block, smooth block and paint it the same color as the lighter colored portion of the building, so basically to match the rest of the building. The ordinance prohibits the use of painted block unless approved by the City Council. Also as part of the ordinance states that it should be in areas that aren't visible. So with these changes, staff did not feel comfortable approving a building permit. Again we're here to implement your decisions and we are seeking clarification from the City Council as to what your decision was on the materials as well as splitting this Phase I into additional phases. And I'll be happy to answer any questions. Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you. Sharmin A1-Jaff: Thank you. Mayor Jansen: Council, any questions for staff at this time? Councilman Peterson: Sharmin, why don't you leave that back up, if you would. Just to clarify, are they recommending, or is their preference is to do the large, jumbo block all the way around right now? And not do the, I'll sort of, large, medium and small brick. Let's do it that way. Are they recommending or requesting large brick all the way around? Sharmin A1-Jaff: Just a moment please. This is the building permit application. This is the elevation that faces. City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 Councilman Labatt: Great Plains Boulevard. Sharmin A1-Jaff: Great Plains Boulevard, thank you. This portion, which is the hallway, will be brick. Everything else that you see here is the jumbo block. This is the elevation that faces south, which is West 78th. Everything is the jumbo block, and this is the area that will be painted. This elevation faces east. Now right from the beginning we agreed that this portion was going to be painted. The City Council approved it in that fashion, with the understanding that it will become an internal wall in the future, and again the ordinance permits painted walls if approved by the council and if they weren't visible. And the last elevation is the north elevation. That entire elevation is intended on this plan to be the large, jumbo block basically. And it faces residential single family homes. There are mature trees separating this elevation from the single family homes. Does that answer the question? Councilman Peterson: Yes it does, thanks. Sharmin A1-Jaff: Thank you. Mayor Jansen: Any other questions for staff at this point? Councilman Labatt: So they're proposing, let me make sure I understand this right, to paint the large block on the west and south elevations? Sharmin A1-Jaff: On the east and south elevations. The east is the elevation that will. Councilman Labatt: Will be the interior wall in the future. Sharmin A1-Jaff: Correct. Councilman Labatt: Right. And the south elevation then? Sharmin A1-Jaff: The south elevation is what faces West 78th and where the locker rooms will eventually be added. Councilman Labatt: And what will happen with the west wall that faces Great Plains then? Sharmin A1-Jaff: It will be extended. Councilman Peterson: It will be painted too. Same color, won't it? Sharmin A1-Jaff: No. No painting. This is the wall that faces Great Plains Boulevard. This portion is brick right here. Everything else is block. It will be the final finish. No painting on that. At some point in the future they will be adding another, I want to say 21 feet. Councilman Labatt: The locker room. Sharmin A1-Jaff: The locker room. And it will be a continuation of the brick. The brick sized brick. Mayor Jansen: So the portion of the wall that we would be painting right now, on that south elevation where the lockers would go, it will eventually be an interior? City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 Sharmin A1-Jaff: Correct. Mayor Jansen: Okay. So it's really the same situation as what we approved in the initial approval. We approved a wall to be painted because it was a temporary situation. This is an instance where they'd like to delay the lockers so it becomes a temporary situation until the lockers are constructed. Sharmin A1-Jaff: That's correct. Mayor Jansen: Okay. So that's the addition. Okay, thank you. Any other questions for staff at this point? Okay. This is not a public hearing. I realize that we have numerous in attendance around this issue, and we certainly appreciate that. What I would like to do is have a representative come forward and cover with us some of the issues that staff just addressed, and give us the perspective from the applicant's perspective if you would please. So if you'd come forward to the podium, and state your name and address for the record. Dan Blake: Madam Mayor and Council, my name is Dan Blake. I represent Chapel Hill Academy at 306 West 78th Street. And I think that these people are my supporters here tonight, but like I said I will try my hardest to speak for them tonight in this situation. I will try to address the topics one at a time. See ifI can keep myself organized. Maybe this picture. This is our 3D model that we used when we came in originally, and I want to try and go through, is wanting to see the surfaces on this picture and I think that also just, and Sharmin didn't do it exactly correct what we're proposing but it's sometimes hard on those flat elevations to see this. So this is the, Main Street, West 78th Street and Great Plains Boulevard. This is the question wing that we just completed last fall. Sod that we just completed last week. This is the existing school part of the building, showing a re-facing of that to match. This is the existing church part of the building showing us some building all around it. This is the gymnasium and in front of it is the locker room and corridor. When we were here before we had talked about a scenario of a mixture of block and brick in various locations and the way we had proposed, or the way I thought they had proposed it, was all around the building at the base, a kind of block in a darker color. Above that on all one story surfaces brick and, with the exception of this band, block again to match the base. And then again over here, a block and a base brick right above, rather the two story surfaces of the gym and they're in the back. We propose to build that entire building out of rock face block. And it is the larger modules and Sharmin's got paper. I've got brick. Mayor Jansen: Sharmin's were easier to carry. Dan Blake: Here's all the samples, and just to kind of get the gist of what we're talking about, and I know you're familiar with construction. It's sometimes hard to see out in the field. I think it's fair to say when we started we wanted to build the entire building out of this material. It's the less, least expensive and I think it might be fair to say that staff wanted us to build the whole thing out of this, and we talked about a scenario where we, where this might be a compromise for part of it. In reality what we built after approval, and this is the 4 by 12 that I believe was approved for the brick surface. In reality what we built was a base out of this 8 by 6 and the upper 12 feet is this brick right here. Smaller brick. The residential sized brick that you have behind you. However on the gymnasium we always proposed that the two story walls be block. We added some of these columns that you can kind of see here and you can see them shown on, some of these elevations.., and we added some windows to try to break up some of the massing of the block but it was always proposed to be this in a couple different colors. The primary reason for that is the way you build the building. If I put this brick, which is about 4 inches thick. I City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 build a block wall, smooth face block, and I attach the brick to the outside of it. It is much, almost purely a decorational item. If I build it out of this, which is what numerous buildings are built out of these days, the inside wall and the outside wall is the same piece of block. It's one chunk of our building. And that's why we propose to do that. The gym building would have just a painted finish on the inside, with integrated color on the outside with the various columns and such. These are my accent colors. I think we have a color scheme that everybody's okay with but I can show that in detail if anybody wants. I guess the point I'd like to make though is it's for block. This property when we purchased it was zoned office institutional. Still is. We came in with an application that we thought met the requirements of the zoning. A site plan to review... master site plan. When you, the office institutional district does not have any material requirements specified. It doesn't have what's allowed or doesn't have what's prohibited. Some of the districts I believe have some of those specific types of things. There is a general statement in the ordinance that speaks to compatibility, and one of the things we discussed before is compatibility exactly with what, especially on this gym side. We did quite an analysis of the surrounding materials, buildings and materials. Actually a very low percentage of the surrounding buildings have brick on them. Many of them have siding that is 8 inches or 12 inches in dimension. Realistically, I don't know how a gym is ever compatible with single family residences around it, but I think that as long as the materials are generally consistent with what you see in the area, I would think that that would make it compatible. The Highway 5 corridor district, which apparently this is also in, will have some additional standards. The highway corridor issues is a little more specific in what's allowed, and it says that exterior surfaces are face brick, stone or less are architecturally extra concrete cast in place, or pre-cast panels, decorative block, or approved equivalent, and that goes on to state what you cannot use, and it doesn't state, say any kind of a rock face block exclusion. I don't know if the original intent of the Highway 5 corridor district is, and why this property applies to it. It seems like it's very fringe as far as Highway 5 corridor, but nevertheless that's the standard that's offered in that section of code. So I guess another item relative to the decisions to be made relative to block is, what exists in other places in the city, and again this is 2 year old material that I have. We had a number of buildings identified in the city that have been recently built and approved that are built out of the rock face block material of this size, and are adjacent to residential users. A couple of the prominent ones is the CSM building over on Dell and Lake Drive, which I believe is the Young America office building right now. The walls are up 24 feet tall, and the comer is up 27 feet. 100 percent on rock face block. You've got single family, be it Eden Prairie, across the property line but they're adjacent there. The St. Hubert's gym building is on pre-cast wall with 16 inch square panels, kind of a rough concrete look. And as well in that area the Foss Swim School is built out of block and that, while it's in a commercial district is immediately adjacent to the single family. So in my opinion the council isn't doing anything outside of their code or outside of what they've done to allow the block usage on this building and that's certainly our desired request tonight. The second item has to do with this temporary south elevation. Again maybe you can see it on this picture, if you can zoom in a little bit, but again this is the protrusion.., and we're only building half of that protrusion and this is the side facing south, West 78th Street. Again it's very hard to see this dimension going on here. This bottom part sticks out about 25 feet or so. It is a temporary wall interior to the building and in the future it's a corridor wall. We are proposing to paint that temporary wall, and are proposing to paint it in the same color scheme as the rest of the building. With a darker, and then the lighter will go up and then the banding so that it matches. We also added windows to this wall, just because we thought well the city's not going to let up put up a full blank wall. We'll put something in there to give it a little bit of an appearance from across the parking lot to West 78th Street. So yes, it's visible, but visible only from quite a distance, and also it would be covered up. And what I have for you today is a proposal, at least a place to start if you're interested in talking about it. Relative to that temporary wall what I would ask is that the council grant us permission to do that and build it as City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 we propose, and that in the event, and add a condition that in the event that Chapel Hill Academy does not move forward with an attempt to build the locker room portion, or at least request a building permit.., within 3 years, then we would agree to re-face that temporary wall with a combination of the block on the base and the brick above so that it matches the classroom walls. And we went back and forth a bit amongst our organization trying to decide you know what's fair. I'd like to tell you we're going to do it in one year, and that's what we hope to do. We hope to build it all at once but we decided we're better off to build part than none... Longer than 3 years seemed like maybe that's asking much of the city so that's kind of where the number, about 3 years comes in so. That's item 2. I'm going to skip to item 4, which is the rooftop canopy. In this picture, well here. Back to this picture. Some of these rooftop canopies over these entryways. We are proposing to build rooftop canopies, but we'd like to put, build that when we build the locker room. The locker room extension is onto here, like that, and the roof canopy actually is supported on part of this part of the building. It's wider than just that doorway and I suppose there'd be a way to temporarily jut that out and hold that thing up, but it didn't at the time that this was, when we proposed to build it, again it's part of the next phase and I wouldn't expect the city to build the rest of that without putting that entry canopy on. We don't envision using that door as our entryway. It's got a side entry. It's as much just a decorator feature for putting that entrance. It's not intended to call that out as this is the main door. We intend the door is to face the parking lot, would be our active entry way. The sidewalk question that staff mentioned...to work that out. Now one of the things that's different from this plan from before is that we're proposing to build an enclosed link between the two buildings. When we've shown this before it was a free standing buildings. Again this enclosed link would eventually be encaptured by the rest of the building. We don't envision a lot of traffic outside, like we did originally. However, I would intend to finish the sidewalks out to the parking lot and so if there's an issue there, I think it's a communication issue between myself and staff as far as what sidewalks were to get built, but they would all lead to the parking lot... That was the other issue. Did we, I don't remember. Did you speak to the rooftop... ? Sharmin A1-Jaff: No. Dan Blake: Okay. But the staff comments relative to the rooftop equipment, we agree with that completely. That was a communication issue again. We didn't show that on these plans because we intended the manufacturer.., to prepare separate drawings which did not get over to staff.., so I think it's fair that staff was wondering where'd that go. But instead of an architect's version, we wanted the manufacturer's version. So we will be screening the rooftop equipment on this addition as well as adding some screening to the rooftop equipment on the classroom, which is more visible than we thought it would be after we built all that up. I guess having said all that, and man I have a lot more stuff I could say. I have a ton of pictures. I have a lot of information that I'd rather just step back and answer any questions that anybody might have. Mayor Jansen: I think the fortunate part is that the 3 members that are here, were here when you came through the process the first time so at least we are familiar with some of that history and the issues as they were discussed. The unfortunate part, and probably why we are here, is that the council meeting, the final council meeting, this very rarely happens but we do not have the taped version of that council meeting so we do not have the verbatim minutes and we did have lengthy conversation around this particular issue with the block size, be it block brick or all the terms get intermixed and it is unfortunate that the little bit of confusion happened at a point where we don't have those minutes. But thank you for going through that. I do have one thing Dan, while you're up there. Nann, if you could re-focus onto the last picture. Where you just diagramed where the future locker room addition will be with the canopy, is it only that shorter wall that would be painted as a temporary? City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 Dan Blake: Okay, from the west side, from Great Plains Boulevard, this is, everything that's colored in here from, we've got the gymnasium. Two story is proposing to be block, and then we've got brick through here. So nothing's painted on this side. Mayor Jansen: Correct. Dan Blake: And that's the side closest to the street. So this edge right here, which if you left to the other, becomes this face right here, is the side that's proposed to be painted. Mayor Jansen: And it's only the shorter portion of that? Dan Blake: It's the low portion, that's correct. It's about 12 feet high. We're not even proposing to build that parapet on there at this time. And that's the exact same situation on the east side, where the top portion of the building would be built of permanent material but the lower section that will be added onto, would be built with a temporary finish. It's that approximately 12 feet high. Mayor Jansen: 12 feet, okay. Alright, thank you for clarifying that. Appreciate it. Any questions for the applicant at this time? Councilman Peterson: Just one. Dan, as you look at that, what are you going to end up painting? Is it going to be a cinder block wall essentially that you're painting? Dan Blake: It would be essentially a cinder block wall. So it will have a little bit of texture to it, but we, you know it would match the size and shape of the adjacent materials so we'd be painting. It would be 3 colors total. We have this, not much darker but a little bit darker base that the existing building of this, and then we have the bands out of this, and then the field is this color. But that's exactly, we talked about applying like a stucco finish to paint. We could do that. However, that's all material that has to be sandblasted back off because that becomes an interior wall. That's really the main reason we wanted to...this building even out of this rough face block was because they become locker room walls... Councilman Peterson: I mean that's actually the dilemma that you're going to hear the 3 of us talk about in a few minutes is that a painted cinder block wall is not a pretty thing. Dan Blake: I understand that. I think it depends on how it's done, and I think it depends on for how long it's there. Now we could debate whether what's there today is a pretty thing. It's a pretty goofy building. I think anything we do is going to make it better, and I think anything you do to allow us is to help us in steps move forward. We're pretty excited about what our small organization's been able to do over the last couple of years and get that first... Drown up interest. We've got people committed 100 percent of the necessary funds to build the gymnasium piece, and we have decided as an organization instead of borrowing money to move ahead, we want to, we'd rather build it as we raise the funds so we don't get ourselves in a bind. And like I said, I have every reason to expect that we'll build this next year. It's a need. This, we envision this gym being a community asset. We don't know how much time we'll have to give up, but we would expect that if there's any un-used time that it would be available for rental for community teams, etc. so those lockers are going to be a piece of that. So we're not cutting them out because we don't think they're needed. We're cutting them out because... Councilman Peterson: Well, I'm with you. You answered my question. 10 City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 Dan Blake: Alright. Mayor Jansen: Thank you. Maybe while we have both of you here, while you're still at the microphone Dan. The issue of the sidewalk. Is the segment that Dan is referring to by the front part of the building, the sidewalk that you were referring to on the plans as approved on August 28th? Are there any additional sidewalks? Sharmin A1-Jaff: Yes. There are. Mayor Jansen: That are an issue. I just want to make sure we're all talking about the same thing. I didn't have sidewalks on the plans in the packet. Sharmin A1-Jaff: This is the sidewalk that was approved. And with the proposed plans, the applicant, and correct me, it was somewhere here? That you were ending the sidewalk. Dan Blake: Maybe we can show it on this. Now we've got this twisted. Maybe I'll mm it so it's the same way. So here's the gym. Here's our...and corridor is the ultimate construction out here. We're proposing a sidewalk coming from this end up the parking lot and a sidewalk coming to our front door off the parking lot. These sidewalks along here are already in place. And then we have the interior corridor that's linking the buildings. So a sidewalk across, and this is showing this future building on it. A sidewalk across here, this is really part of the usable parking lot. We try pretty hard to have safety patrols out there in the parking lot. I don't know that again, we're not intending to use this door other than sort of for emergency exit and decoration so here's our access point from outside, and here's our access point from inside so. Mayor Jansen: Okay. And so anyone coming from the existing portion of the building down the existing part of the sidewalk, they're then crossing the parking lot to get to the building? Dan Blake: If they were walking outside, I guess that's correct. They would do that. But what we have here, the way we have this parking lot used, is this, we don't have any parking on this side. That's our drop off kind of lane, but the cars are out in the middle and along these entrances so this is kind of circulation thing. If, I guess if we thought this was productive we could extend the sidewalk from this sidewalk out to that sidewalk along the back of the parking lot. I wouldn't be opposed to that. Mayor Jansen: Does that meet the needs Sharmin? Sharmin A1-Jaff: Yeah, absolutely. And again, I mean. Mayor Jansen: You're trying to keep people out of traffic and we understand. Dan Blake: And depending on how this all works, this might all end up hard surface between here so it's not... Mayor Jansen: Okay. So it sounds like the two of you can work that out, if we leave that condition in. Dan Blake: That one's easy. Mayor Jansen: Okay, great. Thank you. Appreciate you're working through that with us. Okay. At this point I think I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to bring this back to council. I don't 11 City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 want to fail to acknowledge everyone in the audience and Dan says he thinks everyone's here to support him. If you wouldn't mind just a show of hands so we can see who is here in support of the Chapel Hill's proposal, appreciate that. Okay. Thanks for coming tonight. Why don't I bring this back to council for discussion and we can maybe cover each one of the points so that we can clarify exactly where we'd like to go on this, and I want to thank the applicant for working with staff and acknowledge that having gone back through all of the minutes, I can see why we're at this point. There was a lot of intermixing of the term brick and block and dimension and I can see where there could in fact have been a little confusion and going back to my notes from the last council meeting, that's where I really wanted to have had those minutes because I do know that we had the discussion over building one wall or two walls when we got to the gymnasium and the size of the block so, just want to acknowledge. I do think that it was appropriate that you're back, even though it did cost you a little time on the project and we apologize for that. Council, whoever would like to begin discussion. Councilman Peterson: I'll take a stab at it. I read the minutes and again, I sat through the commission meetings while this was there and struggled with wanting to have the project go and needing to have some consistency and some interaction with the neighborhood. Giving that transition that Dan talked about, and we talked about earlier. I really don't think that the cinder block is going to look good painted. You know and I can, as I was reading this this afternoon again, I thought where is there some kind of, can we give them some kind of timeframe to get the locker room built, and I think in my mind I thought giving them a year to 18 months to build that, if not then put the faCade on there. So at least I think it's interesting that they presented not 18 months, but 36 as an alternative. I think 36 is a long time to have a cinder block wall in a prominent area of Chanhassen. I mean anybody driving on West 78th, it's a very visual building. It's going to be a very visual building. It's going to draw your eye to it. So I'd be open to something creative, something less than 3 years, and to help him through this, but I'm in more of the 18 month range. And I want to try to be as helpful as I can, but it is so prominent and it's going to draw your eye to it. The building's that I've seen painted with cinder block just look cheap you know, and I don't think that, I know they don't want that. They're struggling with finances. I can't, I'm putting finances out of my mind because I can't make decisions based upon that. Plus I don't think we should. To that end, give them some kind of timeframe and I think we've addressed the sidewalk issues so, that's probably where I'm at. Mayor Jansen: Did you talk about the block size on the gymnasium? Councilman Peterson: You know as you read, as I read the minutes, I guess I saw the clarity, I saw more clarity in the block size being the intermediate one, both from the planning minutes and from the council minutes do I'm more biased towards the intermediate size, than I am the larger size. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Councilman Labatt: So you want me to go next huh? Thanks. Mayor Jansen: Since you volunteered. Councilman Labatt: I volunteered alright. Okay. Well I'll take a little bit different stab at it. I think that, I really feel that once Chapel Hill gets the gymnasium built, that will elevate in their proposed condition here of said 3 years, I think that this will stimulate them to get, this will stimulate the whole process to get those locker rooms built quicker. They'll see the need for them and people will step forward more and while I'm comfortable with their 3 years, I think that those 12 City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 people over there will raise their capital and get the locker rooms built sooner than 3 years. So I'm okay with the 3 years. The bricks. I'm okay with the big brick. I mean it's, to be honest with you, I'm fine with the 8 by 16 inch on the gymnasium. And then as far as number 4, the canopy. If I understood Mr. Blake right, their point is to put the canopy in there once they do the locker rooms. So shouldn't we just strike that out of there right now? Wouldn't that be? Mayor Jansen: If you agree with their not needing to put that in until they do the locker rooms. Councilman Labatt: Until they do the locker rooms. Mayor Jansen: So they're not having to do a temporary. Councilman Labatt: Right. But if we strike it out of there now, does that eliminate it forever or once they come in and put the locker rooms on, will that canopy be put on? Do we need to make it a condition now or worry about it later? Mayor Jansen: I don't think striking this would strike it from the master plan, correct Sharmin? Sharmin A1-Jaff: What you can do is, add at the end of that sentence, of number 4. Shall be added when the locker rooms are built. Mayor Jansen: Thank you. Councilman Labatt: Thank you. Okay. And the sidewalk is, I take it has been worked out between Mr. Blake and staff and I would hope that they would connect the two sidewalks. I've seen it from days over there so I know what it's like. Other than that, did I hit everything Mayor? Mayor Jansen: I think you did. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, Council, just so you know. You need 3 votes in favor to amend your site plan. Just as you're going through and re-establishing conditions, you should know that. Our ordinance. Mayor Jansen: Are we amending anything? Todd Gerhardt: Well it sounds like you're amending the site plan. Other than just clarifying the block. Mayor Jansen: If all rooftop equipment shall be screened, I think that's part of the. Todd Gerhardt: Original. Mayor Jansen: Original condition. Okay. Entrance canopy, if it's with the locker rooms, that's the same as the original. Todd Gerhardt: Just the timing. Mayor Jansen: Right. All we're doing is changing which phase, actually because this is a delay for Phase I even. Okay, sidewalks we're not changing anything. It will just be a matter of whether we're painting the 12 foot cinder block wall on the locker room, I think would be the only change. You can correct me if I'm wrong. That sounds like the only change. 13 City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 Roger Knutson: If you're just clarifying your prior action, that would just be a simple majority vote of the council members present. If you're amending the site plan, it takes 3 positive votes. Councilman Peterson: The sidewalk wouldn't be an amendment? That's a change. Roger Knutson: If you approve site plan, and making a change on how the sidewalk is going to be built, that would be a change. Mayor Jansen: Okay, let's see where we end up and then we can decide if it's passed or not. Correct? Can it still be tabled then or are you? Pardon? Roger Knutson: You can table it or you can vote on it. You can see if there's consensus among you before you vote. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Roger Knutson: That'd be the easiest thing. Otherwise what would happen is, I don't want to predict how anyone's going to vote. Let us say it was a 2-1 vote. And someone in the majority, which would be the one, the prevailing side, would have to move to reconsider. So that person could move to reconsider the one, could move to reconsider. You then move to reconsider. Puts it back up on the table, and then you can postpone until your next meeting. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Roger Knutson: Or you could just have your discussion now and determine whether there is consensus and if there is no consensus, or there's some division, if you wanted to you could just, the motion could be simply to postpone to the next meeting. Mayor Jansen: Great. It can never be simple. Councilman Peterson: Let me try to make it more simple potentially. Have we talked about, there's two the visual sides of this thing for the public primarily are the west side and the south side. What is the possibility of letting that be the intermediate, the middle side brick and the other side being the large side? As another option. Councilman Labatt: So the two different sized bricks on sides 1 and 2 in essence. West and south would have one sized brick, and north and east would have a different sized brick? Councilman Peterson: Yes. The size that most people visualize as you're driving through town and through that area, they'd see the smaller brick which is considered to be more residential and elegant. The sides would have trees in that are more hidden, would have the larger, more cost effective brick. Mayor Jansen: I guess we could go there if we need the approval tonight. I guess I'll state where I am on the proposal. And again I wouldn't mind if we had in fact had the verbatim minutes from that last council meeting because I do remember this conversation pretty vividly as we went back and forth between block size and brick size. I don't have an issue with allowing the jumbo size as the construction material for the gym. And my reason for that, I affirmed this afternoon by driving by the now newly built extension on this building, which is wonderful. And I've been over there obviously before this but I went over specifically to look at the rock face block on this 14 City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 trip. Having that as the construction material for the, I understand this is a big wall and that it's 27 feet, but it's a gym. It's a school. I drove by St. Hubert's where they have the push up panels I think they're called with the big squares. Councilman Labatt: Tip ups. Mayor Jansen: Tip ups? This is much more visually appealing. I looked at the Foss Swim School, and that I don't find offensive. I think maybe because of the blend of the colors, the fact that it's textured, I don't have a problem using the jumbo size on the gym and I certainly appreciate the fact that when we were reaching our compromises, that the majority of the building did end up with the 4 by 12 inch brick, and that by luck of the draw when the building was built, it's the regular sized brick. Because it does look terrific. And I think it's much improved and I'm sure the school would agree. You know having used the smaller brick is very appealing in the look of the school. I think of the gym differently. It's a large building. You can do it in large block. So where I'm going obviously is more in the same vein as Councilman Labatt, and I am okay with the 8 by 16 rock face block for the gym. As far as the painting of the cinder block, here I agree when I hear painted cinder block, it is just 12 feet. That's a little better. It's not the portion that's looming up above, and that's going to be the rock face block. 3 years is a long time. I don't know if we can go somewhere inbetween Mr. Peterson's 18 months and the 3 years and hit a 2 year window as far as actually having that built. I understand the school wants to proceed even more quickly if you can. I don't have a problem with painting it, though I would much prefer that it be rock face block, but that's okay. I understand that it's temporary. Everything else I don't see as any sort of a catching point. Again I just, as discussed, I think you've worked the sidewalk issue out. The entrance canopy, adding it with the locker rooms when that's built. And the screening of the rooftop equipment, I understand the applicant intended to do that. So I think the only issue then that remains is the size of the material on the gym as a whole. Councilman Peterson: So I've got another question. The cinder block, the cinder block is going to be interior. The painted cinder block is going to be the interior wall eventually, right? So why wouldn't we be able to just put the rock face, let's say the large rock face there now and not bother with painting a cinder block. Mayor Jansen: Dan, can you speak to that for us please? Dan Blake: Sure I could. Mayor Jansen: Is there a big difference between the. Dan Blake: Well it's probably doable. It's an inside wall. It would be an interior wall, inside the locker rooms. You normally would finish that with a smooth, shiny kind of finish. Even if it's block, you'd paint it shiny. You know you have a locker room, you treat it different than... structure. So if we built it out of rock face block, we would just have to probably burn that out in the future instead of having that as a block wall, just bring it out a couple inches and you know like a sheetrock wall in front of that, so that would be a doable scenario. And maybe that's a fair compromise to look at and suggestion. I would be open to a different timeframe, especially if you told me that the only way you'll let us build the building is if we put the brick on right now, I would be certainly table, I'm better off to agree to 2 years than.., how to finish that interior wall, why that would be a problem. 15 City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 Mayor Jansen: And if it were the rock face block, we wouldn't necessarily have to put any kind of a time limit on there for you at all. Dan Blake: That's true. Mayor Jansen: Because then it would be complimentary to the rest of the building. Dan Blake: And as long as I'm standing here, can I make one more point? Mayor Jansen: Sure. Opportunity knocks. Councilman Peterson: Be careful because I think you may have a consensus. Mayor Jansen: Oh, go sit down. Dan Blake: When we. Councilman Labatt: Come on Dan, get out of here. Dan Blake: I had a question that came up at the Planning Commission. I can't remember if it was Mr. Peterson or someone else, was right where we do that window and column thing on the side that faces main street, and so we were instructed to do a little bit of an elevation study to look at that, and we did that and that's what this picture represents. And the point I'm making with this picture is that from the street side, from a normal person's view, very little of that block wall shows up, and we have these windows at this band height and the columns below that and so we didn't put them there because everybody agreed that you'd barely be able to see them, behind that wall. And my point is that, that same is true with how much rock face block you have. The ground that services the brick wall, and on the main street side that I understand why everybody cares about, you know you'll only see that top section from the band width height. And then on the west side, from Mr. Labatt's half of the discussion, specifically requested that we add some additional landscaping in the form of evergreen trees at a larger size than, and although we haven't agreed to a size, on the west side, on the Great Plains Boulevard side, on that wall for that very purpose. To help soften that look so that's where I just wanted to bring those points back up to the previous discussion. Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you. Councilman Labatt: Didn't we talk like 30 foot evergreens? Councilman Peterson: We should get that on the record right now as to how many did we request. Mayor Jansen: That will be the next time we see you back. Councilman Peterson: And what kind of evergreen we wanted. Why don't you make a motion Steve? Councilman Labatt: Okay, I'm going to see ifI can work this out here. Mayor Jansen: We wouldn't need number 2 then. 16 City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 Todd Gerhardt: This is just a clarification. Councilman Labatt: Oh boy, I had them all written down here. Mayor Jansen: Oh did you? Give it a stab. Councilman Labatt: So they're willing to rock face the wall. Okay, so ifI say, I would move that we would approve the, require the applicant to incorporate the following conditions to be consistent with the plans dated July 24, 2000 and approved on August 28, 2000, to state the following. Number 1. The applicant shall utilize materials that are consistent with the classroom addition as staff has said, or block on lower 3 feet of the building and brick on the remainder of the building with the exception, right? Mayor Jansen: Yep. Councilman Labatt: Of the gym which may utilize the 8 by 16 inch rock face block. Okay? That sound alright so far? Is everybody tracking with me? Councilman Peterson: Yep. Councilman Labatt: Good. So striking number 2. Number 3. Councilman Peterson: 2 could remain. Councilman Labatt: 2 could remain? Councilman Peterson: You still don't want to paint them either way so. Councilman Labatt: Okay, so 2 will remain then. 3 will remain. Striking number 4. Roger Knutson: Or modifying it. Councilman Labatt: Or modifying it to, I just got a page here. Ah, that's okay. Number 4 would be to add after the added, remove the period and say, when the locker rooms are built period. Number 5 would be as amended to work with staff in fitting the sidewalks as the two highlighted tonight. Mayor Jansen: Okay. And a second? Councilman Peterson: Second. Mayor Jansen: Point of clarification. Councilman Labatt: Oh no, there's no clarification. No way. Mayor Jansen: On point number 2, if we're doing the rock face block on the south elevation, it's not going to need to be painted, correct. Councilman Peterson: That's why it says it's prohibited. 17 City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 Mayor Jansen: So okay. So we're just saying it's prohibited. Okay, that's cool. So we have a motion and a second. Councilman Labatt moved, Councilman Peterson seconded that the City Council requires the applicant to incorporate the following conditions to be consistent with the plans dated received July 24, 2000, and approved on August 28, 2000: The applicant shall utilize exterior materials that are consistent with the classroom addition (block on the lower 3 feet of the building and brick on the remainder of the building), with the exception of the gymnasium which can utilize the 8 x 16 rock face block. 2. Painted block along the south elevation is prohibited. 3. All rooftop equipment shall be screened. The entrance canopy facing Great Plains Boulevard shall be added when the locker rooms are built. The sidewalk along the perimeter of the gymnasium shall be added to the plans as discussed between the applicant and staff. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 3 to 0. Mayor Jansen: And again, appreciate the applicant working with staff and coming back in and getting this all set up and appreciate it. And your project is looking great out there. Good luck with the rest of it. And thank you Council for working through that one. COUNCIL/COMMISSION LIAISON UPDATES. Mayor Jansen: Any Southwest? Councilman Peterson: No, we're right in the middle of the budget process, like we are here. So we'll have some ideas and some recommendations next month but nothing substantial. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Are you on the budget committee or the development committee? Councilman Peterson: Development committee. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Councilman Peterson: Actually I can speak to that, because we're far enough along now where, whether or not you guys have been away. We've got Ruby Tuesdays going into Southwest Metro Station. We've got Krispy Kreme and we've got Culvers. Interestingly enough, Culvers has got a design that will shock you. It does not have any blue. It's a design that. Councilman Labatt: Is it a drive thru? Councilman Peterson: It has to have a drive thru, but it is a huge departure for them. Krispy Kreme is a pretty major departure. Ruby Tuesdays is relatively similar to their style, but all 3 projects are tracking for approval through the Eden Prairie Planning Commission probably next 18 City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 month, and construction can start soon after but the buildings architecturally are dramatically different than the corporate standard so it's going to be a very interesting project when it's done. And the housing is, there's 271 housing units in there that are also very distinctive so. Todd Gerhardt: Any retail below the housing? Councilman Peterson: Not below the housing, but there's other, a walk-up retail, 5 or 6 stores that will be there. Todd Gerhardt: So they were able to incorporate the drive thru with the apartment? Councilman Peterson: With Krispy Kreme is a drive thru, and there's a drive thru at Culvers so, are they integrated really well? No. You're going to do some meandering and walking but there's going to be water affecting a lot of green too. Todd Gerhardt: Because that's one of the issues we're having now on the bowling alley site is, depending on what type of a housing unit would go there, you probably could not include a restaurant below it and deal with all the complaints that would go along with the apartments. Councilman Peterson: Wow. Well that's not the case in Hopkins. Not Hopkins but, both the new St. Louis Park development, Excelsior, and the one over in Richfield over, what is it, Lyndale and 494? Mayor Jansen: Yeah. Councilman Peterson: They've got restaurants below don't they? Todd Gerhardt: I haven't seen. You know you can get like a Subway, something that doesn't have the big grease type smells. Or the traffic or the loud music that might go along with a Champps. Councilman Peterson: Yeah, I think you're right. Todd Gerhardt: So we can get the quieter type restaurants. Councilman Labatt: No piano bar? Todd Gerhardt: There's a McDonald's that had a piano bar. Councilman Labatt: Really? Todd Gerhardt: One over by Centennial Lakes, they've got an artificial piano bar. Roger Knutson: Oh yeah, the player piano. Councilman Labatt: The one with the satellite drive thru. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, that's the one. Roger Knutson: It's weird. 19 City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 Todd Gerhardt: It's a weird development. Mayor Jansen: Thanks for the update. Any other updates under council presentations? Okay, administrative presentations. Todd, anything to add? ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. Todd Gerhardt: We plug along hoping for good weather on the library project. Preparing update on the construction budget for you. I'm planning on bringing back the coffee shop proposal to you. I've got submittals on that and we need to make some tough decisions looking budget wise and operation wise in the coffee shop. If we're going to include that or not in the library because we're going to start pouring floor on the library probably in September and we've got to do utilities with that. Councilman Labatt: How are they on their time table? Councilman Peterson: The library itself? Councilman Labatt: The library construction. Todd Gerhardt: We're probably 2 weeks behind due to the weather. Wet weather. They are hooked up to water. Storm sewer got connected today, and sanitary sewer, I didn't hear on the sanitary, if that got connected. But water was connected last Saturday and so moving along. Mayor Jansen: Okay, great. And not to put you on the spot, but we were asked last week by a resident. The Highway 101 trail, where are we at as far as beginning construction on that? Todd Gerhardt: Construction has started. If you've driven along the corridor, it has been staked and they have done some tree removal as a part of it. What you haven't seen is the heavy equipment. Councilman Labatt: Pretty soon though huh? Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, we're still trying to get some easements. You authorized condemnation tonight and I think we've got about 70 percent of the easements, the way I understand it. Mayor Jansen: Now do we get going with construction even before we get those easements? Do we just start at the other end or how does that work? Todd Gerhardt: Well, on the south end I think we have all of the construction easements so that's where they started the tree removal. The difficulty will be on a couple of those on the north end. We may not get to that this year. Try to get the gravel base as much on the south end, but odds are we'll probably have to go to condemnation on two of those. And we want to make that connection to the Pleasant Road up there. Hoffman and staff feel strongly that we've got to connect that Near Mountain neighborhood to the trail. You can't scoot them back down Pleasant View and then cut through. Councilman Labatt: Cut through to Fox Hollow. Todd Gerhardt: The residential neighborhood that doesn't have a trail. You can't put them on a street and go. If you're going to spend that kind of money, you should connect it. 20 City Council Meeting - August 12, 2002 Councilman Peterson: You should drive up there guys because it's scary how close that trail's going to be to. I mean I'm not saying we shouldn't have done it. I'm just saying it's going to be kind of. Todd Gerhardt: I'm still trying to figure out how they're going to get a trail in there. Councilman Peterson: Well that's what I thought. After they staked out I went what? You know. Mayor Jansen: Great. Okay. We will adjourn then and we will be going into executive session so ifI could have a motion to adjourn please. Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Labatt seconded to adjourn the City Council meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 8:20 p.m. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 21