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CC Minutes 2002 11 25CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING NOVEMBER 2S, 2002 Mayor Jansen called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Jansen, Councilman Labatt, Councilman Boyle, Councilman Ayotte, and Councilman Peterson STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Roger Knutson, Kate Aanenson, Bob Generous, Todd Hoffman, Justin Miller, and Teresa Burgess PUBLIC PRESENT FOR ALL ITEMS: Debbie Lloyd Janet & Jerry Paulsen Denny Nystrom Tom Furlong LuAnn Sidney Tim Braff Brian Lundquist 7302 Laredo Drive 7305 Laredo Drive 1800 Flying Cloud Drive 1841 Ringneck Drive 2431 Bridle Creek Trail 7410 Minnewashta Parkway 7281 Conestoga Court PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations: a. Approval of 2003 Prosecution Contract with Carver County. Approve Temporary Trail Construction Work Agreements and Payments, TH 101 Trail Project 97-12-3. c. Approve DNR Easement #133-27-0156 for the Highway 101 Trail Project 97-12-3. e. Adoption of Public Purpose Expenditure Policy. f. Approval of Bills. Approval of Minutes: - City Council Work Session Minutes dated November 12, 2002 - City Council Minutes dated November 12, 2002 Receive Commission Minutes: - Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated October 22, 2002 h. Request for a Variance Extension, 1800 Flying Cloud Drive, Dennis Nystrom. Approval of a Permit for the Filling of 8,320 square feet (0.2 acres) of Wetland for Trail Construction; Located along the West Side of TH 101, North of TH 5. City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 j. Approve Certificate of Compliance, Permag Corp, Addition LUR #90-21. k. Approve Certificate of Compliance, Park One 3rd Addition. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. APPROVE ACCESS EASEMENT AGREEMENT WITH SUNRISE HILLS HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION AND COMPENSATION IN THE AMOUNT OF $20,000. Mayor Jansen: Is this a lengthy conversation to move to the end or? Councilman Labatt: No, just a quick one. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Councilman Labatt: I'm just wondering why we are doing what we're doing here, and going to compensate $20,000 plus installing a brick paver surface. What kind of precedence are we setting here? Mayor Jansen: I see Teresa entering the room, and she can answer that question for us. Teresa Burgess: I'm sorry, I missed the question on my way down. Mayor Jansen: Thank you. Councilman Labatt: On 1(1). The Sunrise Hills. As long as you're here, $20,000 in exchange for an access easement. How does that relate to what we've given to other property owners in the past? For this amount of property. Teresa Burgess: What we did is we valued the property based on previous lot sales in the area, not with properties that we had purchased but properties that have been purchased by private property owners and we used that to calculate a value on the land. We then calculated based on request by the property owners, in this case the homeowners association, for the improvements for the paver block instead of putting in grass paver asphalt. And we deducted that value from what we would have normally paid out. That's a standard procedure for us. People will ask for something above and beyond what we were going to do. We deduct it from the dollar value and say it's an in kind purchase instead of a tax purchase. So what we are paying to the neighborhood is the difference between the cost of the improvement and the dollar value of the land that we are taking based on our normal calculation, very similar to what we did out on Highway 101 trail improvements and what we did on the BC-7 and 8 improvements when we took utility easements out there. Councilman Labatt: So, and then, so how much of it was deducted and how much brick paver surface will there be? Teresa Burgess: The brick paver area I can't give you a square footage but it's the area from the existing gravel drive to the lift station that right now is a grassed area. We've torn it up several times in the last 2 or 3 years and the estimates the last time we tore it up were, would have been about $10,000 to repair the damage. Rather than do that we rough graded it using city staff and put down seed, but that is not to the level it should have been. The brick pavers are slightly more City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 expensive than asphalt would have been, but less expensive than the grass paved that the city originally proposed, and I don't have those numbers in front of me. I can certainly get that to the council if you'd like to have that information, but it was inbetween the two costs. We had originally proposed grass pave as a solution for the neighborhood and they felt that they did not want that. They wanted brick pavers instead because they felt that the grass pave was not a good solution for what they use this site for. Mayor Jansen: And the brick pavers you just said is less expensive. Teresa Burgess: The brick pavers are less expensive than grass pave but I don't remember the exact dollar amounts. Todd Gerhardt: There's an ongoing maintenance savings on this too. Teresa says we ripped it up the last 3 years. I think we rip it up every spring because we have to go in there and we take in the vac truck and rut up this entire area so we have to come back, re-grade it, seed it every year and this again is an ongoing maintenance issue and we can get you those numbers if you'd like to see that. On what the savings would be. Councilman Labatt: So is this brick paver going to be driven on by the trucks then? Teresa Burgess: The brick paver will be designed, right now we haven't done the designs yet but it will be designed for, to hold the level of weight of our vactor truck. It will be able to hold that truck. Councilman Labatt: I just think, I'd like to wait and get a spreadsheet on what the actual, the whole breakdown of the cost here. Mayor Jansen: This has been a rather lengthy negotiation and I know it's been on and off of our agenda several times. I think over the course of that, I know I was asking questions as it popped on the agenda a few times, as to what was going on, and I would just as soon try to get this passed this evening, though I understand you'd like to see more of the detail. What I'm hearing Teresa say is that this was negotiated in the city's best interest as well as trying to accommodate what the neighborhood was looking for, but where they were upgrading, you were then deducting from what the city was paying for the property, so it's a give and take. Teresa Burgess: The property was valued at approximately $40,000 and we have reduced that to $20,000 based on the improvements that we were offering above and beyond gravel or bituminous. It was a negotiated settlement between the neighborhood and the city. We did approach this just like we would any other property owner, and I can certainly get you that information. Councilman Labatt: Well I don't think any of the property owners are going to get a brick paver road down their property and we have to maintain this too now. I think, what's our recurring maintenance going to be on it? Do we have any projections on that and things like that. You know I'm only one voice up here and I think we know which way I'm going to vote so whatever you want to do. Councilman Peterson: Teresa, this is the same one that we talked about some kind of creative drivable grass, wasn't it? Isn't that the one. City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Teresa Burgess: The grass paver. We had talked about grass paver as a solution. The neighborhood rejected that as an alternative. They felt that it would not provide the type of surface that they wanted in that area and were concerned that it would become a maintenance hazard or a maintenance headache. Quite often with the grass paved, because you put the gravel underneath it, you have problems with keeping it green. It will brown out because it doesn't have anything to hold moisture... Councilman Peterson: Either way this is not improving their property, which is now our property but. Teresa Burgess: It will be the easement that will be paved. They preferred the brick paver look to asphalt, which would have been our first choice. For surfacing and we did reduce the cost. We did not take into account additional maintenance cost as Steve brought up. But at the time we were trying to negotiate an easement and we did approach it, we have had property owners request substantial improvements to their property in lieu of payment. A perfect example would be when we recently did the Tanadoona Road improvements. We ended up seeding a large area of wild flower in exchange, instead of paying the property owner for land that we needed for temporary easement. He requested landscaping that we put in instead so we do that as a common practice. We try to value what we're going to do as an improvement against what the dollar value of the property is and reduce the dollar value that we are paying. We don't do an improvement above and beyond what we have for dollars. Councilman Ayotte: I think Councilman Labatt's request to see what the recurring costs are for life cycle is a reasonable request. Councilman Boyle: May I say something? If you do that, you're dealing with a homeowners association of 50 some different families. Each time there's a change, you've got to go back. They've got to call meetings. This will go on for another year. Trust me I know this has been going a long time and it kept going off because they had, you have to get this 50 families to agree on this every time. And even if you saw the increase in cost, these are costs that's being associated because the city needs it to get the truck to the lift station. It's not the homeowners requesting it. Councilman Peterson: The homeowners then. Councilman Boyle: And we are paying them 50 percent. We the city are paying the homeowners 50 percent of what the appraised value was. Councilman Peterson: The homeowners would prefer to have us not be there. Councilman Boyle: That's correct. Todd Gerhardt: Well that's not a choice. Councilman Labatt: Well our lift station's there. We can abandon the lift station I suppose. I don't know. Councilman Peterson: I'm just making a reference to the fact that. Councilman Boyle: They won't like that either. City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Councilman Labatt: No they won't. Councilman Peterson: They'd prefer not to have anything so. Todd Gerhardt: That's a stinky option. Councilman Peterson: Steve, is your only question really pavers versus asphalt or? Councilman Labatt: My whole point is, I mean Mr. Boyle's point is, this is 50 families but we've got 7,000 other households that are going to be paying for this and setting this precedence city wide. And you know, if we're going to build a paver roadway that will handle our vac truck, in essence we're going to be building how big of a, how many ton road down this property and service it with paver stones? Teresa Burgess: A 7 ton. Councilman Labatt: A 7 ton paver road you know. Mayor Jansen: And you've subtracted the cost of that from the value of the property that we're paying for. Teresa Burgess: We've subtracted the cost of construction. We have not taken into account maintenance costs. Councilman Labatt: I'd like to look at the maintenance costs. Councilman Boyle: Well I would venture to say, I can't guarantee this, but they pay for maintenance down there so currently there's no maintenance on the city and there probably won't be because of the fact that they have somebody taking care of the baseline. Teresa Burgess: The city maintains the easement. Once we put in paver. Councilman Boyle: Well you're supposed to. Teresa Burgess: No, we have historically. This is the first year we have not maintained the easement. Even though we did not have it, we have historically maintained the gravel road out to the lift station because we needed the access. Councilman Boyle: Oh gotch ya. Yeah, from the street down you mean. Teresa Burgess: We do not maintain the grass areas but we maintain the gravel roadway. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Again, this has been on and off our agenda a couple of times and though I hear the concern, I'm also hearing what I heard throughout the negotiation and that's that staff has looked for an equality to how they have negotiated these things in the past. You're not setting a precedent. You're following the same guidelines that you have throughout all of these types of negotiations as far as land value determination and for the upscaling of the type of material you're then deducting that from the cost of land, so you're following prior practice, correct? City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Teresa Burgess: We're following our standard practice. If this is not settled and it's decided to not do brick pavers, we would have to go back to the neighborhood and start negotiations. We have actually been at this nearly 2 years and so we would like to get it settled, but if council's uncomfortable, then we can gather that information and bring it back on December 9th. We can turn it around that fast. Councilman Boyle: Just a ballpark, do you have a ballpark on what the difference between the pave, just a guess, do you recall? Teresa Burgess: I have it up in my files but off the top of my head I don't. Councilman Boyle: Okay. Mayor Jansen: Mr. Gerhardt. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, just let us put a cost benefit, a short cost benefit analysis. I don't think the neighborhood's going to walk away if we don't approve it tonight. As long as they get what's in this agreement. I'm sure that we can show the justification for this proposal and showing the operational cost. We can put this back on for our next meeting and we need a majority vote on this. Councilman Peterson: Motion to table. Mayor Jansen: And a second? Councilman Ayotte: Second. Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded to table the access easement agreement with Sunrise Hills Homeowners Association to the December 9, 2002 City Council meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS. Cindy Skack: Good evening. My name is Cindy Skack, and I'm a resident of Chanhassen. I live at 2209 Lukewood Drive and I would like to address the council and the mayor on the topic of the community center research that's going on. This is a topic that's been going in the city. I was one of the participants in the community center focus group and you're going to hear their report, the official report later on, but I did have just a couple observations and suggestions going forward about the community center research that's going on. So first let me start by saying that I don't favor, and I'm not opposed to community center. In fact after going through this process with the focus group, I realize that I certainly don't have enough information to even make an intelligent choice and you know, I did some research on my own as well as participating in the focus group. So given that, I'm not really sure how much research has gone on by all of you but I would strongly urge you to carefully consider whatever next steps you take in this process. And I would like to outline three specific items. The first one being the process that we went through in the focus group. Secondly, some of the recommendations and thirdly, suggestions going forward. So first of all, just as background. I work in the technology field and I have a lot of experience in marketing, finance, project management, business case development, things like that. A lot of return on investment analysis. While, and I think the focus group engaged in a very useful discussion. There are a lot of ideas brought up about features and amenities that would be City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 desirable in that community center. I don't think that the focus group's report should become the sole factor or a major factor even in your decision to move forward or not on investigating a community center. And the reason that I say that is, the decision should really rest in the hands of the citizens of Chanhassen, not just a select group of a few people who got together for 3 hours and talked about this. So you know, I mean first of all the group was not even statistically valid to be considered like a scientific study, if you will, but I do think there was value in the group and that's why I want to talk about some of the things, some of the conclusions and the suggestions I would have after going through this process. Mayor Jansen: Excuse me Cindy, what I'm wondering is if you wouldn't mind, since this item is on our agenda and we will be being presented the report. Rather than have you pre-empt the report, and everyone who's listening, not have the opportunity of hearing that, perhaps if you wouldn't mind, and our agenda's very light. We just have one other presentation and we're right to the community center, and if we could have you be a part of that, if you wouldn't mind. I think having the. Cindy Skack: I'd be glad to do that. Mayor Jansen: I appreciate that... Cindy Skack: What I'll do is just kind of mark off where I was in my comments and I'll just sort of pick up from there. Mayor Jansen: Sure. Cindy Skack: ... cover all the other stuff, sure. Mayor Jansen: Thanks Cindy. Appreciate it. Cindy Skack: Sure. Mayor Jansen: Is there anyone else under visitor presentations that has an item that you'd like to bring to the council's attention? LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIRE DEPARTMENT UPDATE. Sgt. Dave Potts: Good evening Mayor, Council members. For October, referring to my memo items 1 through 4, I have the area reports, citation list, community service officer info and just some recent performance trackers for some of the officers in Chanhassen. I don't have any comments on those other than the issue of citations that was brought up at last council meeting in October. The numbers show a substantial drop August-September and then October as well on your most recent report. And while staff is currently in the process of updating those numbers, as well as answering a number of other questions that Councilman Labatt brought up. I was told verbally today that those numbers once updated will be in line with the previous months that you see in the report. That they are still back logged or you know whatever verbiage you want to use on entering some of that information. So that will be forthcoming as well as on the other questions that Councilman Labatt had asked since that time. But with that, questions or comments from council. Mayor Jansen: Any questions or comments for the sergeant? City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Councilman Ayotte: I have a couple. Mayor Jansen: Bob. Councilman Ayotte: What I see happening is we're getting data, not information. I don't see that we have a fact finding function associated with the information, the data that we're given. And I don't see any analysis or trend reporting. And I make that point because at another point I want to have a discussion with respect to public safety, if we have that opportunity, and to bring as a matter of public record, the need to consider public safety commission as a go between the council as the policy setting body, and the staff as providing the service. We need that bridge for analysis, fact finding and determining what the trends are and to formulate recommendations to the council for policy setting. I don't see it. I want to make it as a matter of public record, and I want to state publicly that I think we have a dire need for a public safety commission, not just with respect to the contract adherence with Carver County Sheriff, and other public safety issues associated with the city and other agencies that support the city. Mayor Jansen: Okay. We have had several conversations about that topic and Sergeant Potts doesn't specifically of course address your information so we'll have that conversation as a council but if you'd like, if there's anything else to share with us this evening, that would be good. Sgt. Dave Potts: Just under the miscellaneous items, I had planned to give you an update on the alcohol compliance checks for the year. Those were to have been completed for the year last week, but they had a scheduling problem and weren't able to complete those so once they do, they'll be giving me information that I can pass onto the council regarding those compliance checks. The other item under Neighborhood Watch coordinator recognition, we held that on November 14th. This was the first one and Beth and I both hope to make it an annual event. Just recognizing our block coordinators from our Neighborhood Watch groups. It was intended to be just a fun evening in recognition of their efforts and kind of pump them up as well as publicize the Neighborhood Crime Watch program and hopefully get more people involved. And what we had for that evening was some dinner for the folks involved. We had 24 coordinators signed up for that event, and we had them down at the sheriff's office in our main training room, and then from there they went on tours of our dispatch center and the crime lab. And all of the positive, or all the comments from the group were very positive. They enjoyed the evening quite well, and we didn't intend to discuss specifically Neighborhood Watch issues but of course you put a group like that together, and it's going to come up. And probably the primary piece of information that we heard from folks is that they really like the e-mail notification on crime alerts and that type of thing. Number one of course is the speed. They get it immediately and for many of them they're starting their own distribution lists in their neighborhood so they can pass that e-mail right onto their neighbors and have the information go out real quickly, whereas other people do do the door to door flyer thing which is a little bit slower at times. But that was a real nice evening and kind of a real perk for the program that I hope to keep going as the years continue. Mayor Jansen: That's great. I'm glad you had such good turn out for the coordinators to come to have that kind of interest in your program. Sgt. Dave Potts: Well we're hoping word will spread and the turn out will be even larger next time so. Mayor Jansen: Well good, thank you. City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Councilman Peterson: 24 out of how many? Sgt. Dave Potts: Beth has a rather complicated answer for that but there's approximately 15 Neighborhood Watch groups in the city currently. Made a note of the business watch presentation at the Chamber of Commerce. This is tomorrow morning at the Chamber of Commerce luncheon. Both Beth and I will be on hand there to give a brief presentation on the business watch crime prevention strategies, as well as just update the business community on local crimes and that type of thing as well, so something coming up tomorrow. That was all I had for council this evening. Any other comments or questions? Mayor Jansen: Any other questions for Sergeant? Councilman Labatt: No, I had sent that e-mail to you Todd to forward down. Is there any update on when I might get my answers to the 5 questions I had? Todd Gerhardt: The sheriff and Sergeant Potts were out on Friday so I got a message this afternoon from the sheriff in that he would put that work order in and get it to you as soon as possible. He did not specify a time or a date. Sgt. Dave Potts: And that's what I was referring to earlier, that staff is currently working on those questions and getting data gathered together, but it is kind of time consuming. It's not something they can simply punch up quickly on the computer and print it out. Todd Gerhardt: Dave, do you think we could have it by our next council meeting in December 9th? Sgt. Dave Potts: I would say easily by then, and that's you know my guess or opinion at this point. I had talked to Leslie Mitchell, in charge of our records division, two different times today and not specifically on that issue but in talking about that she had made a lot of progress in just, you know between the two different times I spoke to her today so I anticipate it relatively soon or quickly. Councilman Labatt: And then also, if we can get an update on when they think they might have the August, September, October, November's update then. Sgt. Dave Potts: Yeah, that would all be part of that research that's being done. Councilman Labatt: And if that, well. We'll wait for the updates to happen and see how that's addressed. Mayor Jansen: Okay, anything else for Dave? Alright. Thank you for the update. Appreciate it. I don't see a representative from the Fire Department. Todd Gerhardt: I know John Wolff was out of town and I thought Greg was going to step in for him but we can get him on for the next council meeting. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Alright, thank you. City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 REPORT FROM COMMUNITY CENTER FOCUS GROUP, ROBERT LAPRADE. Mayor Jansen: I don't know, staff did you want to initially do a staff report or we'll move right onto, is it Laprade? Mr. Laprade. Thanks for joining us this evening. Robert Laprade: Okay, thank you for having me here. Todd had a copy of my e-mail report and this is just a written copy, in case you didn't get that. And what I'm reporting on is on a summary of the Chanhassen Community Center Focus Group. We had two separate meetings that were set up, each about 2 hours where 18 different members of the community were present at this, as well as some different members from the city government. And at the meeting we tried to summarize the two things that you asked us to do, was to try to determine the preferred components to look at the potentially organization structure, and also to see whether people in town really wanted a community center. And in our first meeting, in general, probably out of the 18 people there, about 16 or 17 felt pretty strongly that we needed a community center. And the general focus on that was that most people thought we needed something that really was unique to Chanhassen, if we could do that. Instead of having a generic community center, which had an outside fitness area, and didn't represent us, but try to have something that we could actually come together as a community and meet together and have a central focus. In addition we all decided on what areas we could potentially have in the ideal community center, and we came up with a big list which is on the back of the page. And our second meeting we tried to focus down and determine what were the main components that everybody felt would be necessary for this community center, and the main things that we arrived at were an outdoor water park, a fitness center, indoor pool, a performing arts center and an ice arena. And those 5 set up a clear demarcation between the top 5 and the next 5 down so those were the ones that most people felt were necessary. And in general those are about the same things that were on the community survey from 1997. It was almost those same 5, so it seems to fit with this group of citizens we have which were pretty diverse and from different areas of the community so we seem to coordinate the findings of the previous survey and we didn't really look at it that much. We just kind of brainstormed and we came to the same general areas. The other 5 items that were listed were the field house, a multi-use gym, which was defined as like an aerobics or a dance type floor, a banquet and meeting space, because of some of the difficulty in getting that in town. An indoor track and a teen center. So in general I think what the results of our focus group is that we felt that Chanhassen did need a community center of some sort and we'd like to have something that's unique for our community. And the second thing that we focused on was what components were on there and that was the top 5 that's listed there. And then finally we weren't able to reach much of a consensus in terms of the second part of our mission in terms of trying to find an organizational structure because there's so many different areas with that where we could partner with different health clubs for a fitness center, but there's some areas that we felt we should go alone as a city like an outdoor water park. So our recommendation is, that's probably the goal of future focus groups or future work groups to try to figure out how to have a different type of partnership between the public and private sector in trying to bring this all together. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Excellent, thank you. Appreciate all the hours and time the group put in on this and for you for preparing the report then back from the group. We very much appreciate their participation. Robert Laprade: Thank you. Mayor Jansen: Council, any questions for Mr. Laprade? 10 City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Councilman Ayotte: I'd like to, do you want to go first? Councilman Peterson: Go ahead. Councilman Ayotte: Basically what I heard you say is that, the group validated what was contained in the survey. Robert Laprade: Correct. Councilman Ayotte: That's the essence of. Robert Laprade: Yeah, independently we came up with the same recommendations. Councilman Ayotte: ... validated, so was there any discussion with respect to how we would get there? Robert Laprade: Well we did go into that somewhat, but it was such a diverse, different area to look at. You know if we're looking at an outdoor water park, where most other community centers that we visited, they're some of the most financially secure areas to go into because most of them are paying off within a year or two. And then you have areas like an ice arena where you really have to have a commitment from different groups to be able to make that financially secure over time. There was some controversy between different people about the fitness center, and that was probably the main use area that people would have. If you look at having a private group come in, versus having the city support it, there's a big difference probably in potential prices and also the way it's set up. And I think what most of us were looking at is we want to be able to have something that we can go in as a family and use a fitness center rather than having a more of a club type atmosphere and that was the general feeling in that regard. Councilman Ayotte: One more question. As a result of what you presented, what was the group's supposition that it wanted the council to do as a result of what you did? What was it that you thought the council should be doing with what you provided to us? Robert Laprade: I think the one area that one, that some of us discussed is that even if we don't decide to build a community center at this point in time, most of us felt that having a central location, close to downtown was important so at a minimum trying to get the space set aside for a future community center before that space is lost. So that was the one thing that we felt was important, if we don't go ahead with it at this point in time because that will be something we'll probably want to do in the future. But I think most of us felt that the time is right to start looking at a community center, with all the communities around us that are building them. Shakopee and Waconia and other areas that are going forward with community centers and we're kind of getting isolated in our own way and that's a lot of us have heard discussions from different groups of people in town that we'd like to have something that we can all come together as a community and bond some more with some of our neighbors. Councilman Ayotte: Thank you. Mayor Jansen: Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Laprade? Councilman Peterson: Just one. You noted performing arts center. Could you elaborate a little bit about what they envisioned when you were talking about that? 11 City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Robert Laprade: Yeah, this isn't my area of strength but what most people felt is that there isn't a lot of facilities in town similar to the Chaska Performing Arts Center where the students that are involved in performing arts and plays and things like that, have an opportunity to do that so it was a really strong group of people that felt that we are lacking that area in town right now, and that was necessary in the community center to help pull everything together. Councilman Peterson: Okay, thanks. Mayor Jansen: Any other questions? Councilman Labatt: No. Councilman Boyle: I have just one. Obviously it's going to cost money to build the community center, and that money's going to have to come from the taxpayers. Was there some discussion regarding how the group felt that would be received? Robert Laprade: We didn't go into that in specifics but a lot of individual discussions were carried out, and especially the second night about the fiscal responsibility of that and that's why we couldn't really achieve a true statement that was representative for all of us because everybody had such diverse findings. There were some people that felt it should only be the city that should set it up, and others that felt that if you didn't do it with other members of the community, be it a public with a high school or something like that, or doing it with an athletic club, that we couldn't achieve it. So we just couldn't arrive at a definitive answer but I think most of us felt in general that we had to have a combination of public/private groups working together to be able to make it responsible. Councilman Boyle: Okay, thank you. Mayor Jansen: Appreciate that. You certainly followed the goals and the results that the council was looking for as far as the feedback that you've given us. As you know, we are so early in this whole process of trying to figure out what and where and who. Having the 18 of you come together and at least throw out some additional components for us to maybe investigate. Where we are currently in the whole process was having submitted out to the private sector a request for information just to see who might be interested in coming in. We felt as though it was a charge from our residents through the community survey that we see what kind of partnerships we might be able to develop because we have the majority of the residents wanting a community center, and then of course in another separate discussion, not wanting to pay for it, which kind of puts you in that position of them looking for those private partnerships. So we do have a nice list of private organizations that are interested in partnering with us on some of these components. You've, as a group, brought up a few that we really hadn't had a conversation around, that might just default into something that if the public would like to see a performing arts center, for one, it might just naturally default into it having to go out to the public to see you know, what kind of financial support the community might want to see the city commit to that part of the project. We're trying to do it as financially frugally as we can by looking for the private partners, but at the same time we've had extensive discussions around alternative revenue sources and to your point that you mentioned with the water parks. That is a question as to what pieces or components of a community center the city can look to as potential revenue generators versus just turning it over to the private sector so there are a multitude of questions that still remain to be answered, but your group has certainly given us that little bit broader segment of input as to where we might go next. We have had some preliminary conversation around doing a more specific community survey list of questions around the center to see, like you've pulled together, 12 City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 what components might be of interest to the general public. So it will remain to be seen whether that survey in fact becomes part of this whole process, but we will be continuing to have some conversations around what do we do now. An informal survey going around door knocking recently as part of the campaign, I was posing that question to our residents as far as pulling together a community survey and what they would be interested in, and of the thousands of homes that I managed to find people home at, and I'm estimating it was probably 2,000. About half of those I knocked on where home, I only had 2 residents that said they couldn't support seeing a community center in Chanhassen, but that was with the full explanation of looking for private partners to work with us on it. It certainly wasn't at all communicating that it would be, you know a city built facility, having what our taxpayers are saying about our taxes. So with that said, we are very early in the process. We appreciate your input and the group's input. We'll certainly make sure we get some thank you's out to everyone for that, and keep you included in the process as we figure out what that is and move forward with some of the brainstorming. It's just nice to have a group of people willing to come together and do some brainstorming with us to give us some additional ideas. And like I said, some of the things that you bubbled up, you know the performing arts center having landed in your top 5 is intriguing to me. I don't know that that was on our 2000 survey. Was performing arts part of our 2000 survey question? I know it was 1997. Councilman Peterson: It wasn't on 2000 1 don't think. Mayor Jansen: I don't think it was on 2000. So it would be a good one for us to go back and maybe re-visit as a broader question on where that constant might go. And I did hear some comment from the group, and you brought it up again here this evening. Wanting to have that sense of community. A place where you can come together, and I was hearing if not a daycare center, you know, it was, at least a daycare center. But then you've got the older kids that people are also wanting to be able to maybe drop off, and that's where I was hearing more of a YMCA type program and to what you spoke to this evening, you know maybe some hesitation about it being truly a private club, because you can't necessarily drop the kids off. Was that crux of that piece of your comment? Robert Laprade: Yeah. I think it was, there was a lot of support for a YMCA type program, especially with the building to have different programs for families where you can have different areas set up for the different age groups, all the way up through. But I think it was more of the, more upper scale clubs that there was some concern about. Whether that would be the true community center that we want to see for Chanhassen. Mayor Jansen: Okay. And did it need to be the club that necessarily, the fitness center that had that community feel or a component of the complex? Robert Laprade: I think it was the whole component is just, we wanted to be able to have a central gathering place where people would go to do things and if you look at what's on the list from a performing arts center to an ice arena to a fitness center, there's a lot there. And being able to have someplace to be able to go together and meet your neighbors and interact was important. Mayor Jansen: Okay. That's good feedback. I guess that was one point that stood out in what Mr. Laprade said that I hadn't really thought about as far as having a community area. I was thinking of course of families being able to all go out in the evening, and you know take the kids with and be able to head for a facility but to have a true gathering area I think is very significant. We as a council had done a tour of different facilities and it was intriguing to see just how many 13 City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 families were in these different facilities in the evenings and just how busy they were. You know you look around and at that point you don't know people because you're not in your own community but I can imagine if you had something like that right here and you were able to see your friends and neighbors it would be a nice experience. Robert Laprade: Especially in the winter. Mayor Jansen: Especially in the winter. So like I said, we're real early on in the process. Council will need to have some more discussion around what the next steps are that we take and we'll certainly make sure that Mr. Hoffman's communicating that back to the group as to where we're going and some of the things we're looking at so, thank you for coming this evening. Appreciate it. Robert Laprade: Thank you. Mayor Jansen: Cindy. If you'd like to continue with your comments, I appreciate your waiting til now. Cindy Skack: I guess the point I was at in my comments was that, I was thinking about this whole topic and I think there are a few facts that we know. The 2001 survey, the residents said the number one issue facing the city was taxes. When they asked if they were, about needed recreational facilities, 59 percent said none were needed. Only 9 percent said a community center was needed. But on the other hand when they were asked about the concept of would they support a community center, 65 percent said yes. So to me there is a conflict between what the citizens will fund and what they support in concept. And in my mind that's the crux of the issue. And so whatever you decide to do going forward, when you bring it to the residents to ask us what we support and what we don't, because ultimately that's the decision. I mean we can talk about nice visions all day long, but ultimately when you bring it to the residents I think what you need to do is bring a well thought out, complete picture of the vision, the amenities, the fiscal model, the unique features, the cost to join, you know all of those things and say would you support this basket of goods and services with this price tag, and maybe have several models for them to choose from. Because there were a lot of comments about what's the cost for this? What is the cost for that? I'm being asked to vote on this. I don't know the relative cost of this option versus that. The value of this versus that, and that's really how we all make decisions about this. I mean it's all about how are we going to expend our resources to get the goods and services that we need and, as a city and to build our community. And so really my comment is that there was a suggestion well maybe we should set aside the land. Well, there's a cost associated with that. If the city's going to give the land or set it aside for a tax, you know there's a tax consequences with that. Some of the partners, the YMCA offered to help participate coming up with scenarios. Fine. If all these companies are you know beating down our door, or organizations to set up shop in Chanhassen, why not engage them in the process and let them do a little bit of the legwork for us if they're to benefit downstream as well. So I mean there were a lot of creative ideas that came out of this group and I just, my concern was, I didn't really know how much weight this focus group's results would be given in your decision making process going forward, but to me it was a great conversation. A lot of good ideas. Not a lot of data or solid conclusions and whatever you do going forward, I urge you to include that because it is really about this cost versus concept and what will the people support. Mayor Jansen: Absolutely, and we intentionally left the data part out because we are so very early in the process, as I mentioned. What we were looking for was a pretty loose brainstorming effort from the residents so we could see what some of the points were, and the validity of 14 City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 moving forward. We had contact with these various organizations, and we're excited that they're interested to come into Chanhassen and now they at least know that we're engaged in these conversations as a community. So certainly now that they know that we're speaking, they should be more interested in coming in and having some of these discussions. Now numerous of them are obviously competitors to each other which is a positive for the city because it should in fact generate some good competition as far as getting the best product in here. Medical was another piece that I don't see on the list that came through from the task force, but we had 3 or 4 of our medical providers step up and say that they'd like to put sport medicine into a facility like this. So there's even broader issues that we're exploring so you're correct. The data part of it and being able to pull together more specific information is the part of the process that we'll be proceeding with in the future based on some of this information we were shared with, so appreciate your taking the time and being on the task force and giving us that input as well as giving us your input here this evening, so we'll make sure that you stay informed as to what we're doing and what's happening. Cindy Skack: Okay, thank you. Mayor Jansen: Thanks a lot Cindy. With that, is there anyone else present this evening that would like to comment on this agenda item? You're certainly welcome to. Otherwise seeing no one, I'll bring it back to council. Council, any additional conversation at this point? Councilman Ayotte: Question? Mayor Jansen: Sure, question. Councilman Ayotte: Question directed primarily to Roger. With the passing of a referendum and based on the point that.., can a referendum include recurring costs to support an activity? Louder. Roger Knutson: I don't think so. It's capital costs. I've never heard anyone trying to cover operating costs with a referendum. Mayor Jansen: It needs to be communicated as part of the package that is being presented to the public so that they're aware that there are then those reoccurring costs. Councilman Ayotte: But he just said that you can't do that. Mayor Jansen: You can't ask for the funding is what I'm hearing Roger say. Roger Knutson: I believe that's, I've never heard of anyone attempting to cover operating costs. Mayor Jansen: Right. Roger Knutson: I believe that. Councilman Labatt: Except the school districts. Roger Knutson: You can have well, school districts have operating levies. Councilman Labatt: You could do that Bob. Put an operating levy on this, but I... Mayor Jansen: No. Roger's saying no. 15 City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Councilman Peterson: It would cost 100K a year to... Councilman Ayotte: My friend brought up a point up. So as a part of communication as something that doesn't always occur, we ought to make sure that the public know that there are operating costs associated with the referendum and what those operating costs could be, and that they would probably surface in, what's the word? Councilman Peterson: Levy. Councilman Ayotte: Levy. So that folks understand it, and I want to bring that point up because a lot of times it's cost over, thank you Mayor. Mayor Jansen: Certainly. And we did that as part of the library referendum, though it's difficult on a new building before you have firm numbers to know what those implications are. It was also communicated at that time that the County would be funding what went into that particular building, so it was a pretty broad communication that we were trying to share with the public so they'd know exactly what was going on with that. Any other comments council? As far as where we go with this process, we had had that conversation about possibly expanding the questions in the community survey. The next one, if you do one next year to maybe hammer out what some of the additional issues are so that you can get more specific and touch a broader segment than of the community in a statistically accurate survey as to some of the, and once you get, you almost have to figure out what those components are that you want to know more information about. If it's a performing arts center as a part of that, and seeing what kind of support there is. What I'm also thinking you need to have better determined is the private sector support of the different components, and I'm wondering if you shouldn't be having a conversation rather soon about doing an RFP with these private companies that have already come back and said that they would be interested in participating in a project like this. Now you might want to get to the level of okay, what exactly are they willing to commit to in coming in on a project like this, because even if it doesn't mm into a full blown community center, as we've tried to envision it, we are hearing that the community would like more of a full service fitness facility, and you've got medical as well as the fitness providers and the pool provider that should maybe be sitting at a table and having a conversation as private entities as to how they might help pull it together. I've always envisioned this whole process as the city being the facilitator of these conversations, so at least we're bringing all the parties into and around the table to have the conversation of what, where, when, how, and the possibility of pulling it together and, even though the school district has now come out and said that they're not going to look at a second high school until further down the line, and that's been ruled out. Is there that potential for another community school? Obviously there's going to be a need for a middle school or an elementary school, however you slice it. We're such a big part of the population. They are going to be building new buildings, and which ones would then be compatible with this type of a facility and enable still for there to be a partnership of some sort? As well as then what you do to transition the other rec center. I don't think it's ever been envisioned that you would end up with a community center and the existing rec center, but if you stay in the discussions with the school district, there has been an interest on their part in that part of that building, so there would be that opportunity to, as you were to move out, potentially have them take over that other part of the building as part of that joint powers agreement. But I think you're probably at a point potentially of wanting to bring in some of the private interests and get them into discussions, one way or the other and I'm assuming staff would potentially recommend an RFP just to see who that key, who the key players from each of the segments might be to bring in for those discussions. I don't see four fitness facilities sitting around the table with the city and negotiating but. Any other thoughts on that as a part of your future process? 16 City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Todd Gerhardt: Well I think that's the next step we're at, just to see what kind of interest is out there and commitment on the private sector side. And the non-profit. I wouldn't exclude the YMCA. Mayor Jansen: I didn't mean to leave that out, yep. Todd Gerhardt: And see what they can bring to the table. I think you're going to need to know that information as you move ahead. Mayor Jansen: And especially if you're going to get more specific out to the public as to what kind of package you're putting together. If you're being asked to financially or physically be a part of the partnership to be able to better communicate that specifically as a part of the information, even in the community survey. If you did it quick enough. Okay. Councilman Labatt: So are we going to keep this same group of people on line, or on call if something else comes up here in the next first quarter of 2003 ? Mayor Jansen: I think it would be good to keep the same group that has the. Councilman Peterson: It depends upon the questions that come up. Councilman Labatt: Well I think this group of 25 should, I mean I hate to keep bringing up a new task force or new focus group every time we have a question come up. If we relay to these people with Mr. Hoffman sending them a letter you know, we appreciate the initial work they've done but we're going to have more questions that will come up and more studying that will need to be done and we still want to retain your voluntary services. Councilman Ayotte: Is there, and I don't remember when we asked these good folks to step up, was there a provision made to bring in fiscal experts as an example or people, did we talk about that? If the question necessitates a certain skill set, how do we bring that in? Mayor Jansen: Yeah, at this level of the project, we limited it to more of a brainstorming session with the group to see what would bubble up. To your point then as you move through the process, that certainly could be a part of it as if you have them help formulate potentially some of the questions that you might be putting out to the public. Find out what additional questions they as a broader group might want to have answered for them were they to be receiving the survey, whether it's data, tax information, you know whatever they bring up. Councilman Labatt: Revenue. Mayor Jansen: Yeah. Exactly. Councilman Labatt: Revenue generators. Mayor Jansen: But even around the park and trail referendum there was a task force that organized of residents because the city can't organize a Vote Yes group if you would. So it was a task force and potentially this group being knowledgeable and having spoken already with their neighbors, if, and I want to emphasize if there's a need for a referendum, I would think that you'd want to organize a group like that. There was also one that organized around the library as far as helping with the educational piece of it to your point, needing to get the education out there and the communication. 17 City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Councilman Ayotte: This is where I'm worried. Right now our parks and rec budget, $1.7 mil. Operating cost. And it's a big part of the city's cost. And as this group goes forward, as we go forward along the path, not just this group but this whole effort. I really think it's important to, in the early part of the game, identify opportunities for revenue and identify the liabilities with respect to operational costs. And I don't know how to do that but that's a concern I have because when we get up and talk towards these things, the reality of cost and economic constraint I would like to have accompanied with the good things. The fun things, and I don't know how we get to that point, but I just wish that we could, as we go along the path, have those reminders in parallel with the frosting. Mayor Jansen: Well I think just having the other models available to us in the other communities, to be able to rely on them for their revenue and expense information. You know it's certainly out there and can be modeled around whatever we decide to put together as a complex. Todd Gerhardt: It depends on what venue you select and how you negotiate these agreements with the private sector. Roger sat through a couple of these already and that's a big thing to look at the long range operational costs and who's side of the ledge it's going to go on. Mayor Jansen: A lot to work on. Councilman Labatt: I've got a question for Todd Hoffman, ifI can. Todd, one of these groups that we've mentioned here is in the process of working with the City of Elk River. Do you know any status on that project up there and their joint venture? Todd Hoffman: One of the private health groups? Councilman Labatt: Non-profit. Todd Hoffman: Non-profit. The YMCA? Councilman Labatt: Yeah. Todd Hoffman: I've not heard about that specific one. Councilman Labatt: Maybe you can look into that. I read about it in Roger's newspaper the other night. Big article on the front page...their potential willingness down here. Todd Hoffman: There's also a YMCA that's opening in Willmar, brand new facility there as well so we can check on both of those. Councilman Labatt: Okay. Mayor Jansen: Great, anything else? Okay, why don't we move on the agenda. Thank you again. Appreciate all the information Mr. Laprade and Cindy. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS. Mayor Jansen: Any council members with meeting feedback reports? Southwest Metro? 18 City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Councilman Peterson: Southwest Metro we've got a, the parking lot dedication is December 12th. I don't think the exact time has been set yet, but there will be some dignitaries there and should be kind of a fun event. Mayor Jansen: This is the parking lot or the parking ramp? Councilman Peterson: Parking ramp. Mayor Jansen: The ramp, yeah. Councilman Peterson: The parking lot is probably still sinking so we're trying not to do anything about that, but that's going to... Mayor Jansen: Is the ramp near done then? Councilman Peterson: Yes. Mayor Jansen: When does it open for use? Councilman Peterson: Three levels are open now. I think they're only waiting on the fifth level because of some inspection issues, but it will be ready by next week. Mayor Jansen: Great. Great. Councilman Peterson: It's already, it's basically full already. Mayor Jansen: The three levels that are already open are full? Councilman Peterson: The four levels that are open are full. The fifth level will be full when it opens so it's... Mayor Jansen: That's tremendous. That's great. How's the rest of the development going for the commercial? Councilman Peterson: They're grading from virtually all of the area. All the building plans have been improved through the city of Eden Prairie so people are just ready to put footings in and go. So they're racing against the clock. Mayor Jansen: I know they were waiting for that ramp for the parking space so, that's great. Okay. Anything else? Councilman Peterson: Nope. Mayor Jansen: Any other council members with reports? Councilman Ayotte: No. Mayor Jansen: Okay. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. 19 City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Todd Gerhardt: I have nothing to report at this time. However I think Bob wanted to add an item to the agenda or discussion. This would be the opportunity to do that. Councilman Ayotte: I'd just like to, ifI may. Mayor Jansen: Certainly, go ahead. Councilman Ayotte: On the public safety issue, what I'd like to do is make it as a matter of public record so people can chomp on it. We have, I think a disconnect between City Council, the community and those activities that involve public safety. Public safety having a broad spectrum of definition, not limited to policing. Also OSHA, EPA, now Homeland Defense. And I think it's important that we consider, and I know we can't do it this evening, but I am definitely going to work towards presenting it at the next council meeting, the thought of having a public safety commission with possibly an horizon date for it's existence. Once it works through some fact finding on behalf of the council, so that the council can establish some policy setting with respect to public safety, starting with our contract with the sheriff's office. I've written down some notes with respect to it. I'm hoping that we eventually can reinstate the public safety commission, with a revisit of it's composition and charter and with it's possible termination once it's goals are achieved. And I'm hoping that those goals would include the 7 person body reviewing our contract and the quality assurance measures we have for the enforcement of that contract. And what staff support is desirable for the support of that contract. I would also ask that eventually we may have a public safety commission to investigate targets of opportunity such as Homeland Defense, OSHA, EPA compliance, and local ordinance compliance. So I'm going to be formulating that at a point for this council's consideration prior to the new council stepping in, largely because I think this council's been seasoned through recent events with the public safety situation with the sheriff's office and with some other things that have surfaced up with, for example mosquito control and the void we have in local ordinance. So that's my pitch for this evening and I will definitely be working towards formulation of a motion for the next meeting. Mayor Jansen: Okay. I guess what I basically heard this evening was a reiteration of what we've had as far as what the three conversations now as a council around this particular issue. Where we haven't really come to a conclusion as to the best way to proceed. And I did not refer to my notes from the last meeting as to what our, in fact I don't think we had an anticipated next conversation at the end of that discussion. It just ended. So as to how to follow up Bob's comments, if anyone here would care to add to that. Otherwise I don't have anything else to add other than that we had left it indecisive after the last conversation. And what you might need in order to be able to reach a decision, if in fact there is going to be something on the December, what is it 8th or 9th agenda. If we could have something beforehand in our packets so that everyone can give it dual consideration and be ready for discussion. Councilman Ayotte: Please forgive me, I just want to get it off the dime. I usually am not impetuous but I just can't let it... Councilman Peterson: You're usually not what? Mayor Jansen: Off the dime's one thing. It's that we've talked about it 3 times and I'm not quite clear on exactly where we're going, and I think we all need to see that based upon those conversations. Something more solid in writing as to what we're doing, and proposing. Councilman Peterson: I think there's discussion, we just don't have consensus yet. I think that's, we discussed... Bob is asking that either we get consensus or not. 2O City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Councilman Labatt: I think that the e-mail that I sent through Todd to Sheriff Olson and Mr. Potts, the 5 questions on there will help answer those quality assurance questions as Bob's going to have. They're either going to say that we have a problem or we don't have a problem. Councilman Peterson: Can you e-mail that to us? Councilman Labatt: I'm hoping he'll. Todd Gerhardt: I will. Mayor Jansen: The 5 questions? Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. Councilman Labatt: I didn't want to, I just sent it to him and, but. Mayor Jansen: Which was appropriate. Councilman Labatt: So I think if maybe Mr. Gerhardt can send a message to Mr. Olson that that report should be here as soon as possible and not on the eve of December 8th, to help us answer these questions we're going to be faced with on the 9th. Councilman Peterson: I think telling him that the information within that is helping us determine a, whether or not a public safety commission is going to move ahead or a task force or whatever you want to call that, that should certainly motivate him to respond. Councilman Labatt: Well, but and I think part of the information we have is in here, in the list and looking at what we have, who's working here and what's being done. Part of our Q and A is already answered in here and realize it's not. So the 5 questions and the answers to those 5 questions will be what else is going on other than what we already know about. What other areas are they failing in? So. Councilman Peterson: So noted. Councilman Boyle: Steve, wouldn't that, what you're referring to would only be one segment of their scope of responsibility? The commission's scope of responsibility? Councilman Labatt: Right, yeah. Councilman Boyle: And we really haven't determined what their functions would be yet, or how we would prioritize it, and I think we really need that step at some point in time. Councilman Labatt: Well I think you look at needed right here and we say well here we have a contract here for $1.4 million and are we getting the quality of what we expect and what we demand, and we don't have any of those measures right now in place to look at and the 5 questions will answer those. Councilman Boyle: And that's fine. Obviously you see that as the primary responsibility of this commission. 21 City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Councilman Labatt: No. It's one of the things. Mayor Jansen: Yeah, because we also, and again I didn't bring my notes from the last discussion. A lot of the contract analysis we had said would really fall on council versus having the commission actually do contract review that a lot of that would have to come from council as far as direction on where you want the contract focused and so forth. I thought more our conversations were the public input piece of it. Let's go back to our notes. I mean if Councilman Ayotte's going to pull something together with time for us to be able to really look at it and come with our own comments. I mean that's the problem. We're all coming from different directions and we need to, somebody needs to funnel it all into one statement as well as staff input then and direction on how it's going to be staffed and who's going to be responsible for staff wise serving this commission because each of the commission's has a staff liaison in charge of the different projects and it's more of a shot gun blast at this point because of all the different areas that this covers. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor and council members. What I heard, we expressed concerns to the sheriff, who's the administrator of the contract on his side. And one of the things that we should hear back from him is how is he going to respond to our request, so I think we should get a written response back from him on what he would propose and addressing the issues that we laid out during our work session. Councilman Ayotte: With respect to the contract? Todd Gerhardt: Everything. You know how would he address everything that we've talked about. Trends. Analysis. How is he going to address our concerns as our chief law enforcement officer for the community, and I think he needs to respond to us in writing on those. If it's a public safety commission, how would he envision that committee operating. Or if it's a task force or whatever it might be, let him respond and then we kind of tear that apart and see how it works for us. Councilman Peterson: Well I think we need to give him more succinct questions to answer because I don't think we left him that evening with a clear question in hand, other than maybe just the contract and how that would work so. Mayor Jansen: We had more so left his reporting with council and more his direct input with the council piece of the function and he's only one part of the breath of issues the council has raised that would fall potentially under the umbrella of this public safety commission. It's not just the contract. Todd Gerhardt: So maybe on the 9th do a brainstorming session. Just drop out everything and, that you think is an issue or something that you'd like to see him address and. Councilman Peterson: That are under his purview certainly, yeah. I think we get Bob's information. We'll have Steve's information and let's dedicate time to assimilating those, and then giving further direction to Bud and further conversation about the legitimacy of a public safety commission. Councilman Ayotte: The only thing I want to put a caveat is that, Sheriff Olson is responsible for the policing as we've hired him for the service. And I don't want to lose the fact that we have other public safety issues that I want to put on a piece of paper that may not necessarily be his business but it's our business. 22 City Council Meeting - November 25, 2002 Councilman Peterson: Well I agree. That's why I said, taking your information and the information we're getting from Steve and so. Mayor Jansen: And then we'll be sure we bring it to Bob's point, he wants a vote on it as far as if we can reach some sort of consensus, but we've talked about this a lot. Okay. Alright. Anything else this evening? Otherwise. Councilman Labatt: What's the update on the library, anything? I was just reading some of the meeting minutes in there and. Todd Gerhardt: Making good progress. A lot of steel going in place. You can see now why the walls have not gone up is the steel's going in place and we still are behind schedule, but I'm looking at 40 degree weather next week. As long as it's dry they can work and get it enclosed and. Councilman Labatt: When are they hoping to have it enclosed by? Todd Gerhardt: January is, January. First week in January is the last deadline I heard. Councilman Peterson: E1 Nino. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. The parking deck has been laid, if you saw the huge crane that was in here. It took 7 semi's to bring that crane in. Councilman Labatt: And how many to take out, 6? Todd Gerhardt: No, 7. No major accidents, knock on wood. So the deck is pretty much in place right now and there will be a decorative railing that goes on top. There's some additional brick work that needs to be done but you can start seeing the stairs that bring you up to the deck, or if you're parking on the deck, down to get into the library. So it's starting to take shape. You will see some additional change orders. Still run into some poor soils once in a while, but as we get it enclosed and the walls go up, I see the change orders going down in a dollar amount. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Great. Anything else? Then we'll be continuing our budget discussion upstairs after this as part of our work session that we did not get completed so if I could have a motion to adjourn. Councilman Ayotte moved, Councilman Boyle seconded to adjourn the City Council meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 8:15 p.m. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 23