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CC Minutes 2002 09 23CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING SEPTEMBER 23, 2002 Mayor Jansen called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Jansen, Councilman Boyle, Councilman Ayotte, and Councilman Labatt COUNCILMEMBERS ABSENT: Councilman Peterson STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Justin Miller, Roger Knutson, and Sharmeen A1-Jaff PUBLIC PRESENT FOR ALL ITEMS: Debbie Lloyd Janet Paulsen Rich Slagle Pam Latanision Linda Landsman Stephanie and Denny Unze 7302 Laredo Drive 7305 Laredo Drive Planning Commission 2051 Timberwood Drive 7329 Frontier Trail 1080 Lyman Court PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Mayor Jansen: We don't have any public announcements. I do have two additions that we are making to the agenda this evening actually under the council presentations, agenda item number 4. We'll be hearing an item 4(a), a library resolution. And then 4(b) is a conversation around the public safety, or proposal about a public safety commission so we have those two additional items we're adding to the agenda. CONSENT AGENDA: Mayor Jansen: If there's anyone in the audience with something on the consent agenda that would like to have separate discussion around that item, if you could identify it to the council, we could remove that item at this time. Don Sueker: Good evening. Mayor Jansen: Good evening. Don Sueker: I'm Don Sueker. I live at 3111 Dartmouth Drive. Mayor Jansen: Okay, and which item would you like us to discuss separately? Don Sueker: The Boyer Lake addition. Mayor Jansen: Okay, so we will remove for separate discussion item l(a). And we will do that after we do the consent agenda then. Thank you. Council, audience, is there anyone else that has an item on the agenda that you would like to have removed for separate discussion? Okay. City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Councilman Labatt moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations: Resolution/12002-86: Resolution Approving an Amendment to the Bylaws for Suburban Transit Association. Resolution/12002-87: Approve Amendment to the Personnel Policy Concerning a Post Retirement Health Care Savings Plan. d. Approve Amendment to Development Contract for Lake Lucy Ridge, Project 01-03. e. Approval of Bills. Approval of Minutes: - City Council Work Session Minutes dated September 9, 2002 - City Council Minutes dated September 9, 2002 Receive Commission Minutes: - Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated August 27, 2002 g. Accept Utilities in Arboretum Village 1st and 2nd Additions - Projects 01-06 and 02-03 h. Accept Donation from Chanhassen American Legion Post 580 for Senior Safety Seminar. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. A. BOYER LAKE MINNEWASHTA ADDITION. Public Present: Name Address Don & Cheri Sueker John Boyer Joseph C. Boyer Robert L. Boyer 3111 Dartmouth Drive Boyer Development 18886 Northome, Deephaven Shorewood Mayor Jansen: If you would like to come forward to the podium and address your issue to the council, we can hear whatever your concerns are with that agenda item at this time. Don Sueker: Again, my name is Don Sueker. I'm at 3111 Dartmouth Drive. I guess the reason I'd like it removed is the Boyer people back on August 1st were told what they could do and what they couldn't do out with the wildlife area. Mayor Jansen: Yes. Don Sueker: And on August 16th they removed a bunch of trees and shrubs and things of that nature, and I guess my concern is, if you go ahead and approve this agenda, what's going to make them do what they're supposed to do as far as restoration? City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Mayor Jansen: That issue has already been addressed by the City Attorney and our staff with the developer, and there is a condition in the agreement that requires that the restoration be completed by November 15th, and there are very specific guidelines for that restoration so it has been addressed. It's been addressed in detail. As I said, our City Attorney has been involved and those guidelines are very clearly laid out and there is a November 15th deadline. Don Sueker: So they have to do all these things before they can go ahead? Mayor Jansen: Correct. Correct Sharmeen? Sharmeen A1-Jaff: That's correct. Mayor Jansen: That is the wording in the contract. Don Sueker: Alright, thank you. Mayor Jansen: Thank you. Councilman Labatt: Mayor, I was going to also pull this for the same question, discussion. What number is that requirement in the conditions? Okay, is that 12 or, on page 25. Sharmeen A1-Jaff: Yes. Councilman Labatt: I just wonder if the resident wanted to read this quick, just so he knows. Sharmeen A1-Jaff: I've given the neighbor a copy of the staff report. Councilman Labatt: Okay. Mayor Jansen: Alright, thank you. Councilman Labatt: That's it. Mayor Jansen: Great, thank you. So bringing this back to council then. IfI could have a motion on agenda item 1 (a) please. Councilman Ayotte moved, Councilman Boyle seconded to approve the Boyer Lake Minnewashta Addition per the staff recommendations: 1) Final Plat Approval. 2) Approve Construction Plans & Specifications and Development Contract. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. LAW ENFORCEMENT UPDATE. Sgt. Dave Potts: Good evening Mayor, council members. Mayor Jansen: Good evening. City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Sgt. Dave Potts: You have the standard reports in your packet this month. One addition to that from Beth Hoiseth, the Crime Prevention Specialist, which was a printout on 3 year crime stats and I just wanted to point that particular item out to you, as those are the actual numbers of occurrences of those crimes rather than your monthly printout contains calls for service. So for example you'll see burglary totals for the previous 3 years, '99, 2000, 2001 are plus or minus 40 for each year. Wherein looking at the calls for service in the sheriff's printout you might see a number, a larger number than that simply because we'll get a call of a burglary which tums out to be something different down the road. So these numbers are the numbers that our records division actually forwards to the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension who keeps all the state crime statistics. So it's just, I thought it would be interesting for council to see some of the actual numbers of those crimes versus the calls for service that you see on a monthly basis. What she's also done here is broken out, under burglary you'll see a breakdown of residential versus business. Roughly half and half under each there. And then under larceny or theft, she listed total but then breaks out thefts occurring out of vehicles. Some of our night time car calls where people wake up in the morning and had their car parked out in the street or maybe it was even in their garage that was unlocked. Find items were stolen out of their vehicle overnight. That accounts for roughly one-third of all of our thefts each year, so that's one of the reasons we try to hit that so hard because it is one of the more preventable crimes. You know people not keeping valuables in their vehicles. Keeping their vehicles locked up. Keeping their vehicles in their garages and locking their garages. All those types of safety reminders that we try to get out to the public, but to this day it's a relatively common occurrence in the metro area, including Chanhassen. This year we haven't had some of the heavy hits where over the course of a couple or three days last year I think we had maybe 30 to 40 car calls. This year we haven't had those kind of numbers in a short period of time, but we might get 2 or 3, 4 a week. So it is continuing, just not on such a grand scale that we've seen so. Mayor Jansen: That was one of those neighborhood notices that has gone out to the Neighborhood Watch groups as far as disseminating that information into our neighborhoods so folks are aware of it. Sgt. Dave Potts: And that's a plug we like to put in for our Neighborhood Watch program is that, get all that inside information with those crime updates that Beth puts out to her coordinators and then they disseminate out to their neighborhoods so looking to push some of those programs in the future as well. Looking down farther on the list here, see under Part II Crimes. Property damage is vandalism, and that's you know, theft and vandalism are the two biggest criminal occurrences in Chanhassen. Where it looks like 2001 had a significant drop, that number was incorrect. I was kind of hurrying to get here on time so I didn't have time to really clarify that but I believe it was, it says 197 there. I believe it was 297 which makes it more equal with the year before. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Sgt. Dave Potts: Any comments or questions on that information? Mayor Jansen: Council, any questions for Sergeant Potts? Councilman Boyle: I don't have any. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor? Dave, could you repeat again what would be the best method for our residents to protect themselves for these break-in's again. Keeping garage doors closed. City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Sgt. Dave Potts: Yeah, Beth puts out a number of different, oh kind of a list of things that people can do to protect themselves but the real big ones are, I mean it seems so much like common sense but people often times will not feel that there's anything occurring or just going to leave something in their car this one night or something like that. But the biggees are, to not leave any valuables in your vehicle. What we've seen at Lake Ann Park is people that go to the beach, maybe leave their wallet or purse in their car because they don't want it at the beach with them. Well, all of our criminals know that as well so we try to get people to not leave valuables in their vehicle, whether it's there or anywhere else. If they do have to do that, to actually lock them in a trunk or other secure place and not leave their vehicles in a vulnerable area as you know parking lots or out on the streets, something like that. Keep them in their garages. What we've also seen is people leaving their garage doors open, or leaving their walk through garage doors unlocked. They'll walk right in to the garage in the middle of the night, being very quiet. Go into a vehicle and take out whatever valuables there might be. People carry a lot of CD's in their vehicles and they carry them in cases so these, they might have 2 or 3 cases in their vehicles totaling 100, 200, 300 CD's, multiplied by $10 or $15 each. Significant loss to that person. So it's just, we try to highlight, you know understand the valuables that are in your car and that they're valuable to our criminals as well and make sure that they're secured or not in the vehicle. Todd Gerhardt: Are they looking for anything specific? Computers, cell phones, anything like that? Or is it just whatever they find. Sgt. Dave Potts: Different groups or different criminals are looking for different things. Mostly what we see, or what we believe are the younger kids looking for cash. What we've been finding a lot lately is purses or wallets are found after they're stolen laying in the street or laying in a park or something like that where they've been abandoned or thrown out of the vehicle, minus any cash that was in there. We have promoted identify theft awareness in the past. Some of our groups are actually looking for that identity. Drivers license, social security information, credit cards, that type of thing. We haven't seen quite as much of that lately. It's mostly the younger kids looking for the easy cash. Get into some of the later teen years or young adults, they'll also take items that they can take to a pawn shop and try to get rid of that way and get some money for it but any valuables whatsoever, we're trying to get people not to leave them in their vehicles. Todd Gerhardt: And how do we track those pawn shop items? Do we ever contact any of the local pawn shops on items missing? Sgt. Dave Potts: Yeah, there's actually a network, and I don't know all the in's and out's of it not being in investigations but our investigators have ties with local pawn shops and then there's kind of a network of certain items have to be entered into a system and kind of tracked that way. And then they'll mm up as you know, if we've got information on serial numbers and whatever of some of our stolen property can mm up that way as well. Todd Gerhardt: Thank you. Sgt. Dave Potts: The only other items I was going to bring up this evening were just some community activities that the sheriff's office has been involved in during August. We had National Night Out, as the council is aware of that we were able to schedule several officers for. Also St. Hubert's Fall Festival, they did child ID kits this year and we were able to supply an officer for that program to assist with those ID kits and finger printing of the children. Finger printing is not something that we really buy into, but if an organization is putting something like that together, we certainly assist with that as well. Also had officers visit a couple of daycares in Chanhassen during the month of August. One was for their safety day, just to highlight safety for City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 the kids at the daycare and another one was a presentation on stranger awareness. We also had officers doing visits with teenage youth in the community as part of Westwood Church's outreach program. It's kind of a non-religious function of the program in the church where some of their youth are reaching out and meeting with other youth in the neighborhoods and communities and we had officers stop by and participate and say hi and that kind of thing with some of those programs too. Sheriff, one of our canine officers, his dog retired here recently. Keith Walgrave and his canine Titan that council may be familiar with. Due to some medical concerns and kind of age catching up with them, Titan was retired here recently. Mayor Jansen: Oh I'm sorry to hear that. I know he's been a popular member of your force here in the community. Sgt. Dave Potts: Yeah, he's made innumerable appearances in Chanhassen and public demonstrations and talks and what not. But it's his time to retire and he's got a good life with Keith because Keith really loves that dog. Mayor Jansen: Sure. Sgt. Dave Potts: But we will then be selecting a new canine handler and that officer will be going through training this spring to get us back up to our normal two canines in the county that we like to have. And the Dave Huffman Race. Nice thing about that, it was on a Saturday so we were able to get a number of our volunteers. We had 8 officers between part time reserve and posse members that helped out with traffic control this year and I was not there but I heard after coming back on Monday that nobody got run over, so that means it was a complete success from our perspective. And I believe some of you were there and could hopefully verify that for me. That everything went well. Mayor Jansen: Everyone survived. There were a lot of people there, and I know that in the past we have had some incidents with drivers being somewhat impatient with the event. Did you find that you still had numerous of those types of reports or was it a little calmer this year from, I think it was our third year. Third or fourth year. Sgt. Dave Potts: Not numerous. There's always going to be a couple or a few, but there's been an awful lot of planning and not only from our office but the street department, parks and rec's and all the race volunteers that goes into this so I mean traffic is put off as little as possible. In fact when there's a break in the race, cars are going through so, and it's a very short race. It's over in 45 minutes or an hour so you know. Mayor Jansen: Well we appreciate their participation. Sgt. Dave Potts: ...a couple of people get angry, so be it. Mayor Jansen: Yep. That's why we put the officers atthe intersections. Sgt. Dave Potts: We do try to put the officers at the real busy intersections because they're familiar with handling that kind of thing. Mayor Jansen: Well we appreciate the participation, thank you. Sgt. Dave Potts: Okay. Anything else from council? City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Councilman Ayotte: Just, kind of surprised, make sure I'm reading this right. Child abuse, neglect year to date 2001, 43. Year to date 2002, 12. Good things. What's the deal? How have we acquired such a significant reduction? Sgt. Dave Potts: That's something that I would probably have to look into and get back to you on that. Not a number that jumped out at me when, when I read through these monthly deals, I don't necessarily go through every item so if you have a question like that, I'd certainly take a look into it. Councilman Ayotte: I'll just send an e-mail but the other comment is generally speaking, 2002 events are going down. I mean the trend is in fact a positive trend so that shows some good things. Sgt. Dave Potts: Well we like to see positive trends in our figures. Sometimes we don't have the control over them, you know we're reactionary to a large degree but. Councilman Ayotte: Thank you. Mayor Jansen: Anything else for Sergeant Potts? Councilman Ayotte: No ma'am. Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you. Moving on, do we have someone from the Fire Department here this evening for an update? I don't see John or Greg or okay. So we will not neglect them but we're moving on then. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: PRESENTATION ON METROPOLITAN MOSQUITO CONTROL DISTRICT SERVICES, JIM STARK, PUBLIC INFORMATION MANAGER. Mayor Jansen: We have a scheduled presentation from the Metropolitan Mosquito Control District Services, Jim Stark. Appreciate your joining us this evening. This is one of those hot issues in the country these days. Jim Stark: Thank you Madam Mayor and council members. I didn't prepare a formal presentation so I think what I'll do is just give you a brief history of what the organization does. What we do in the City of Chanhassen and then open it up for any questions you might have. The Metropolitan Mosquito Control District was formed in 1958 under State Statutes. We're a mosquito abatement district that controls mosquitoes, biting gnats and monitors the distribution of lyme disease ticks in the metropolitan area. We're actually a function of county government. We're governed by a board of 17 county commissioners. Commissioner Ishe is the Commissioner that sits on our board from Carver County, and they direct our budget and our activities during the year. Our budget in 2001 was about $9.6 million dollars. It's a lot of money, but the area that we control mosquitoes in is very large. We control mosquitoes in an area of 2,600 square miles in the counties of Anoka, Ramsey, Hennepin, Washington, Dakota, Scott and the eastern 1/3 of Carver County, so it's a pretty big job. We're primarily a regional larval control program, meaning we target immature mosquitoes while they're developing in the water. About 85 percent of our resources go towards trying to keep mosquitoes from hatching into adults and flying off in 50,000 different directions. Protection of public health is another important component of the program. We control mosquitoes that transmit Lacrosse Encephalitis and then certainly this year one of the big issues is West Nile Virus. It's a viral disease that's transmitted by mosquitoes. We're really not quite sure which mosquitoes yet in Minnesota. Primarily what City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 we've done this summer is we have sampled in areas where we found positive bird reportings. We've had a lot of birds reported dead who have tested positive for West Nile Virus. We've had a number of horses in the metropolitan area that have tested positive for West Nile Virus and unfortunately we've had a few human cases of West Nile Virus. We've gone into those areas, collected a lot of the adult mosquitoes and sent them to the Minnesota Department of Health. We haven't identified any positive mosquitoes yet, but hopefully here in the next month or so the Department of Health will be able to look at a lot of those mosquitoes and tell us which species of mosquitoes is transmitting West Nile Virus, to go a long way towards managing those mosquito numbers. Back to the program, as I say we're primarily a larval control program but we also do adult mosquito control to reduce disease threats, but also in response to requests from communities for civic events. We'll also respond to neighborhoods who identify heavy infestations of mosquitoes that are kind of interfering with their outdoor activity. So I think, the history with Chanhassen is back in the early 1990's the city council asked our abatement district to stop doing any adult control of mosquitoes in the parks in the city of Chanhassen, and I don't know if you're thinking of reconsidering that but I'm here to certainly answer any questions about any aspects of the program and I'll open up to any questions. Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you. I'm just curious. Other communities like our's, do they have a similar policy in place where you're not spraying in their parks or typically are you in the community parks. Jim Stark: Well the only other community that had asked us not to do adult control within the property management was Maplewood and they rescinded that request about 3 or 4 years ago so right now the City of Chanhassen is the only city within the 7 county metro district that's asked us not to do control in the property they manage. Adult mosquito control. We continue to do larval mosquito control on the property that the City of Chanhassen manages, but we've not done adult mosquito control. Mayor Jansen: Well apparently the original resolution was in reaction and response to some of our residents, in fact I guess reacting and getting ill from the spray. Do you have incidents like that? Is there an adverse affect if someone is in contact with that spraying? Jim Stark: The Minnesota Department of Health did a risk assessment on the two adult control materials that we use and found that minor exposure to the control material shouldn't pose a risk to human health. Also the legislative auditor, the Minnesota Legislative Auditor did a complete kind of scientific review of our program back in 1998. Their findings were consistent with the World Health Organization and EPA that the control materials used by the district, if they're used according to label, don't pose a significant risk to either humans or the environment so, we have a few calls from people who are maybe hyper sensitive and we try to address those issues by notifying people. We have a notification list that if people ask us to be on the notification list, we're happy to abide by that. We put any place that we're going to do adult mosquito control on any given day during the summer, on an information line. A phone line. Same information is on the web page. We have a web site that we maintain so. We have expanded our notification efforts in the last few years to try to, at least allow people who have concerns about the adult control, or any part of our program, access to the information about where a scheduled spraying's going to happen so. So I guess in direct answer to your question, these materials have very low mammalian toxicity, and we do not get many calls from folks that have issues with health issues with the control materials. Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you. Any other questions council for Mr. Stark? City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Councilman Ayotte: We have 11 lakes. A lot of wetlands. And the densest population in Carver County. In your view are we being remiss by not allowing you in to take care of business, especially in light of the Nile Virus issue? Jim Stark: Well remiss is a pretty. Councilman Ayotte: Not to put you on the spot. Jim Stark: Well, and that's why I'm here. You know I work for a mosquito abatement agency, one of 800 that operate throughout the United States, and most populated areas have formalized mosquito control and one of the responses to these disease issues is adult mosquito control. We try to be proactive and try to do the larval control and try to, with Lacrosse Encephalitis, clean up the artificial containers and tires and fill in tree holes where these mosquitoes develop. But when there are mosquitoes out there flying around actively transmitting the virus, one of our key components to control those mosquitoes is adult mosquito control so in my personal opinion certainly monitoring mosquitoes within your park systems, and then treating mosquito species that might be vectors of those diseases is certainly a prudent thing to do so I certainly would support that. Mayor Jansen: Were you to be spraying in our parks, how frequent a basis would that be in a summer? Jim Stark: Kind of depends on mosquito populations. We work off of threshold levels. We have thresholds for certain species of mosquitoes and when adult mosquito numbers exceed those thresholds, that indicates that there is an opportunity to spray those mosquitoes. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's always going to happen. A lot of times we are, as I say, we rely mainly on larval mosquito control. Adult mosquito control is just kind of an approach we'll use in case we miss some mosquito species or we have a vector mosquitoes in certain areas. So it just depends on the levels of mosquitoes throughout the summer, and the types of mosquitoes you have in the parks. Mayor Jansen: So an on need basis is what I'm hearing you say. Jim Stark: Yeah, and there are a number of communities that we will monitor their heavily used parks on a regular basis and we may spray them fairly routinely, maybe 3 or 4 times during the summer, but there are some other parks where we may only spray them when the city calls us and says hey, we're going to have a softball tournament or we're having some kind of event in that area. And certainly we could work with the city on how you want to manage certain parks. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Councilman Labatt? Councilman Labatt: Well you kind of answered it right there. If you could maybe just kind of a little bit more indepth on what is the adult abatement process that you use. Is that like you know from when I was a kid in Minnetonka growing up, it was the pick-up truck driving through with a big fogger emitting a plume of fog. Jim Stark: We still do that. We do adult mosquito control two different ways. One is with a backpack sprayer. It's what we call a barrier treatment, where we spray the synthetic pyretheroid material onto vegetation where mosquitoes harbor or rest during the daytime. Larger particles, fairly specific area that's treated. Mosquitoes come in there and come in contact with material and that's how they're controlled. The other way we do mosquito control is in the evening with a City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 truck mounted fogger. A lot of smaller little particles suspended in the air. When the mosquitoes fly through that mist, a very small portion of that mist is actually the insecticide but when they come in contact with the insecticide, that's how they're controlled. Councilman Labatt: So this would be confined just to the city parks. I mean we have trails that kind of have easements or cross access easements through property. Or skirting the shoulder of a road. Would you be also driving down those too? Jim Stark: Well we do adult mosquito control on private property throughout the metropolitan area. People have the right under State Statutes to ask us not to do that. Any control on their properties and we certainly abide by that request but our services have been in fairly significant demand here in the last couple summers. We've had some fairly healthy adult mosquito populations and we've had these disease issues so the vast majority of calls we get, this year well over 5,000, have been from people who are asking us to come out and either check little wetland on their property or to address adult mosquitoes that they're dealing with in their back yard so. Councilman Labatt: How many calls have you gotten not to spray? Jim Stark: Oh, we usually get about a handful a year. So it's fairly minor compared... Mayor Jansen: Not to put you on the spot but are you aware of the number of calls you've gotten from Chanhassen this year to come out onto private property to spray? Or to check. Jim Stark: You know I can't. I'd have to look at our data base. I know there have been a number of calls from Carver County. I would just have to look and see which ones came from Chanhassen or other areas. One of the West Nile Virus cases was in Chaska, and I know after that we got a significant number of calls from the Chaska area to come out and do adult mosquito control. I don't know how many of those were from Chanhassen. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Because at this point what we would be having a conversation around would be the city parks, just so we're clear. That's the only property right now that they're restricted from coming in and actually spraying, according to this resolution that we have. Any other questions or comments for Mr. Stark? Councilman Ayotte: Have you got a card with your e-mail address for us or do you have something that we can? Jim Stark: Yeah, it's out in the car. I'll bring it back in. Mayor Jansen: Mr. Gerhardt, anything to add? Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. Jim, do you have a public access video that you share with communities about mosquito control? Jim Stark: You know we have one but it's kind of outdated. We kind of turned over that program into a power point presentation. We're talking about re-creating that video but I certainly can look into something that you might be able to run on public access if we redo it. Todd Gerhardt: Okay. That'd be great. Mayor Jansen: Well we appreciate your coming and sharing that information with us this evening so that we can maybe better make a decision as to what to do with our city parks. 10 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Jim Stark: Okay. Mayor Jansen: Thank you very much. Jim Stark: Thank you. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, Council members. If you'd like, I would suggest that the Park and Recreation Commission review this and provide a recommendation to the council on future spraying in the parks or not. Councilman Boyle: Todd, when was that resolution passed? Do you recall? Mayor Jansen: '92. Todd Gerhardt: '92 1 think. Mayor Jansen: 1992. Actually attached to the packet is the letter that Mr. Hoffman drafted and to the Villager addressing the resident who was concerned. That we weren't doing any mosquito control, and in fact it did, and the explanation being we do allow in the mosquito control. It's just our public parks that it was restricted from. I would be supportive of Mr. Gerhardt's suggestion to have the Park and Rec Commission take a look at it, since it is our city parks and have that come up through the system. Quickly. Todd Gerhardt: Sure. Mayor Jansen: Though I was going to say though hopefully we've had maybe cold enough weather that we've knocked some of them down. But yeah, so if we could. Todd Gerhardt: No, we're going to have warm weather through the end of December. Guarantee it. Until that library's roofed. Mayor Jansen: I was going to say, because we have a library and a trail to finish. Okay, so moving on. Under visitor presentations, the council does have time that if there is anyone in the audience with an issue that they would like to bring forward to the council's attention, you can certainly approach the podium at this time and state your name and address for the record. We just ask that we try to keep those comments then within about a 5 minute period, and if it is something that we need to have staff address as far as getting back to you, we don't put them on the spot here this evening but have them get back to you at a later time. So go ahead and approach the podium Mr. Smith. Don Smith: I'm back. I want to bring your attention again, in the newspaper that you're up for a vote on the City Council for a tenant versus a landlord. Mayor Jansen: And not to interrupt you but if you could, just for the record. I know I introduced you by name but if you could. Don Smith: Oh, Don Smith. Chanhassen Estates, 8812 Erie Avenue. Mayor Jansen: Thank you. 11 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Don Smith: There's a code that's being presented where the landlord would be held responsible for his tenant's conduct. I feel that based on that, between the leases and the legal system that I have as a landlord, that's taken care of. The building codes would take care of everything that's out of line, and health if it's involved would be taken care of, so it's already on the books and this is just another add on for, in my case, a totally out of line position that I as a landlord would be held responsible for somebody that I rent to. If it's a domestic problem or other mainliners, I call the police. I don't have any power to tell them what to do. If they break the lease and destroy my property, they're out. And even then if you're not aware of it, ifI kick somebody out on a lease and take all their property, I have to store it for 6 months. I don't know if you're aware of that or not but that's already on the books. I'm just stating that a lot of times there are already things on the books that if they were enforced or looked into in an orderly manner, we wouldn't have to approach this at all. I see also that if there's three strikes and you're out position. As a landlord you're going to revoke a license that I have to pay for, which I think is ridiculous. So if you get three strikes and you have three complaints about property, for example I file a complaint myself against my tenants, you're going to revoke my license? What are you going to do, take my property away? Also if you assume for me to take responsibility of tenants, why don't you set up a little booth in Chanhassen and give everybody a chip that you check out and say you are free to rent in Chanhassen because you passed inspection. Okay? Now this is my attitude, and I guess the main thing that gets in my craw is as an owner of property and I've been through this in Chicago, Detroit, New York City and God forbid Minneapolis, I am down to one piece of property. Are you going to rent this and do the taxing on 1 unit or 500 units? Are duplexes going to be included on this? Is it a commercial property, are you going to do this? And also you're going to set up a new bureau and a new position based on 800 units. Well do you have 800 units of rental in Chanhassen? So based on this fact at 50 bucks a piece you're going to create a new unit to enforce the building codes and the health department and then it brings up another question. You're going to inspect it. Do you need a search warrant to say can I come in and look at your property? All of these things are a big can of worms and I'm just saying, I hope you give some very serious thought to this and leave it alone. Keep it as simple as possible. It's called Operation Kiss. So with all the things that are on the books with legal things like in leases, the building codes which are very good and enforceable, and the health department, leave the landlords alone. If you have a particular problem with an apartment building, that's their problem. Get the police to do it, and if we have a police department that can't do it, are you saying they're dysfunctional? If you have a police problem, get more police. So that's what I have to say. Any questions on me? Mayor Jansen: No questions. Thank you very much. Councilman Boyle: I do have one question Don. Have you spoke with Beth Hoiseth? Mayor Jansen: Yes. On several occasions. Don Smith: Talk to who? Councilman Boyle: Beth. Mayor Jansen: Yes. Don Smith: I call her and ask for meetings and what was going on with all the meetings. I've never been called by anyone. The only reason I'm here now is I read this in the paper. Councilman Boyle: Yeah I think. 12 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Don Smith: Is she the Crime Prevention person? Mayor Jansen: If we could, I'm going to bring this back to council. Appreciate your comments and we'll have staff get back to Mr. Smith. Don Smith: Well sounds like Big Brother to me and it's unnecessary. Mayor Jansen: I appreciate the comments. That is why we formed a task force from the very beginning and included our landlords in that task force in order to get a knowledgeable base of. Don Smith: I've never been approached. Mayor Jansen: Well, we have landlords involved to represent a landlord position and there were numerous involved, and in fact at our last work session as we were going through this, we had the task force endorse the approval of this housing licensing because they do see the significant benefit to themselves of the program. That's where I would suggest that maybe you, Mr. Gerhardt, maybe you need to have a conversation with Mr. Smith and. Todd Gerhardt: Beth and I will give you a conference call. Don Smith: Do you want my card? Todd Gerhardt: Sure. Councilman Boyle: That was the point I was trying to make. There needs to be some communication. Mayor Jansen: There has been, yeah. Okay so moving on. Don Smith: Thank you. Todd Gerhardt: Thank you. Mayor Jansen: You're welcome. Thank you. If there's anyone else that has an issue that you would like to bring to council's attention, now under visitor presentation, you are welcome to step forward to the podium at this time. Seeing no one I'll close visitor presentation. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: Mayor Jansen: We're going to zip down to the only other thing on our council agenda is under council presentations. We added agenda item 4(a), which is a library resolution that we were just handed this evening so I would appreciate a moment to actually read this before I read it publicly so pardon us while we get up to speed on this resolution. Okay. Mr. Gerhardt, I'm assuming that all of these numbers and hours and so forth you've checked and we know that this is all accurate. That we're portraying to the County as, regarding the library operations. Todd Gerhardt: I have not verified the numbers as of yet so. Councilmember Labatt prepared a lot of the information in this resolution. I basically took his letter and incorporated it into resolution form. So to verify the numbers, I would need some additional time. We could put this 13 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 on for our October 14th meeting. We are getting late into the budgeting process so Steve, where did you find your numbers? Councilman Labatt: I worked with a couple residents from the Library Board and the Friends of the Library that put the letter together for me. Todd Gerhardt: I can verify the numbers and if it's anything different than what Melissa has, can change it from that form, if council has any issues with that. Mayor Jansen: Okay. That's my main hesitation in just reading something here this evening and going to forward it on then to the County without having an opportunity to really go through it. If we have an opportunity to just double check this and be sure that we're totally accurate before we send it on, I would have a greater comfort level with that since this is getting into such specifics. Councilman Ayotte: I think it's important given the time line issue with budget, and I also would therefore ask if there's a way that we could impose, we're making a request of the County. But I think, I'd like to have the request include a date by which we would like the County to act so that, is there anything, is there any risk associated with not having them take action by a certain date? Because of the need to have it done by the time budget is approved. So is that inferred in the statement, recommend budget for 2003? Todd Gerhardt: Well in, you can ask but they're just going to dismiss it. I mean their decision on funding the library is going to be a part of their 2000 budget approval process. As you go through your budget process, you're going to be looking at different options. Councilman Ayotte: So the point being that the date, the year 2003 does put constraints, boundaries on them to target during that cycle? Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. Mayor Jansen: We're at least saying which budget cycle we would like to see it funded in. Councilman Ayotte: And then the other question is, is there any reason why we couldn't pass a resolution with the condition that there's a validation of the numbers contained therein? Mayor Jansen: I think that's what we're saying. Councilman Ayotte: Okay. Alright. Councilman Boyle: Is there pretty good indication Todd that the County is thinking of something other than what they agreed to a year ago? Todd Gerhardt: I have no idea. There's so many, you know they're fighting with the same issues that we're fighting. Potential budget cuts mid-year, next year. I don't know where their revenues are from building permits or from other sources, but everybody's operating on a tight budget and trying to balance it to what their goals and objectives are so I have no idea where they stand on the library. Councilman Labatt: If you listened or watched their meeting last Monday night, they approved a 5 percent plus specials, which is not going to, well there will have to be cuts elsewhere in order to 14 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 fund our's fully. The whole system and Ms. Landsman's here. Maybe she could shed some light, if you want to allow her the time. Mayor Jansen: Ms. Landsman, if we could put you on the spot since you are our Carver County Library Board representative, I think at this point if you could maybe give us a feel for whether you need so involved in the detail or if our just sending the message, in a resolution form, that we are looking for them to fully open it. Linda Landsman: We are concerned about the funding, so I would say yes and yes. They do have budget cuts that they're looking at, and I don't think we've got the, their 100 percent commitment to the build-out of the Chan library that we were promised a year ago. I think some of that's eroded and I think a strong message from the City would help tremendously. Their budget process is in process right now. I think we have, I want to say the final budget process ends the 5th of December. Todd Gerhardt: Correct. Linda Landsman: But during that time period is when we have the meetings with the council and I know we've got some, I'd say probably 2 ½ commissioners that are pretty much 100 percent behind us. We really need 3 to get that vote through, so. Councilman Boyle: Well maybe this will do it. Linda Landsman: I hope so. I know they just, they have a very strong feeling that there's a silent majority in Chanhassen that isn't behind the library and I disagree with that 100 percent. When you look at the vote that came out, I think our citizens decided at the time that they pushed through that 71 percent yes, we need a new library, they weren't talking about the shell of a building. They were talking about a library and we need to get that home to the County Commissioners so. Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you. Linda Landsman: Thank you. Councilman Labatt: I brought this up with Commissioner Siegfried at the work session 2 meetings ago, and we all listened to his rather vague reply and in discussing with the Friends of the Library and the Library Board, I decided to send a message to them. That we had an agreement before last year. This building would be funded fully and staff fully and. Councilman Ayotte: Well I don't think we should wait. I think we should, with the condition on to ask staff to validate the numbers and approve the. We're not voting yet I know, but to in fact send it forward with a strong message right now. I don't think we should wait another... Mayor Jansen: Well and the only thing I would caution council on, and I think everyone knows that if anything I've been a champion and tried to help move the library forward so I'm probably maybe too intimately familiar with what all the communication has been. The council never really had a specific conversation regarding staffing of the library. Where our discussions centered with the County was around the books, the circulation, the fixturing of the library. There was some hesitations initially as to whether the entire space needed to be opened with the grand opening, or were we in fact building too big of a library. The architect addressed that question very eloquently and said that the library that we are building right now is appropriate for 15 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 the size of our community and the service area that we're in. If they didn't want to fully stock the books necessary in the shelves, they needed to put all the shelves in for that future build-out, but they could leave the top and the bottom shelf empty for a period of time until they can build the circulation up. That was the only conversation around potentially not having this at 100 percent the day of opening, and it was our understanding that they would begin to build the circulation and prepare to be able to put the books in as we opened the library, but of course that would then you know still have to be accumulated to fully stock the library. We didn't get into the staffing issue, and I think that just by virtue of the fact that our role in the joint powers agreement has been the facility, we obviously assumed that it would be fully staffed and that. Councilman Ayotte: This resolves that issue. If we pass this resolution, that makes a statement from this council that we do believe the staffing is. Mayor Jansen: And all I'm saying is, we are stepping over, and I'm just cautioning council. We are stepping over a line in the joint powers agreement now pushing the idea of hours of operation and the whole staffing issue. I'm not disagreeing that on behalf of our community that's appropriate that we do want to communicate that, but that is something that as I'm reading this, that's the part I'm not comfortable knowing all of that detail. I know the library Board has pulled together what is a reasonable request. They're the experts. I'm assuming that these are the library board members and what we're in fact doing if we do this motion is we're endorsing and Linda's nodding her head, we're then in fact endorsing numbers that the Library Board has put forward to the County Commissioners. Linda Landsman: Yes, they have all these numbers. Mayor Jansen: Okay. So we're not saying we're the experts, here are our numbers or Friends of the Library, it's actually a formal proposal from the Library Board that we're endorsing, and maybe if council's comfortable, if we can somehow work that into that whereas statement, to say that we are endorsing the request from the Library Board. Councilman Labatt: Why don't you put it in Linda the last therefore. It's in the last. Todd Gerhardt: Fully fund the Carver County Library Board's recommended budget for 2003, which would include staffing levels, hours of operation, capital purchase needed for the new Chanhassen Library, and I would ask that you probably delete out then so you don't confuse them with the discussions that they've had when they've attended our meetings. Councilman Ayotte: Delete what? Todd Gerhardt: Delete out those sections where they've attended council meetings in the past and said that they would fully outfit the library but not talk about staffing. So paragraph, where did we talk about staff? Councilman Ayotte: On the second... Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. Councilman Ayotte: At that time of the referendum, members of the County Board assured Chanhassen City Council numerous times that the library would e furnished and staffed for opening day scheduled for summer 2003. 16 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Todd Gerhardt: So then there's, they don't come back with another one saying we never promised staffing when we attended these meetings. Councilman Ayotte: So all we would be doing is endorsing the recommendation. Todd Gerhardt: Endorsing the County Board's recommendation. Mayor Jansen: And maybe under that fourth whereas, just early on in that statement as you did in the third whereas. You've put the under the direction of the Library Board. I'm just wanting the Library Board mentioned in that staffing paragraph because we don't know. It's not our recommendation. We're endorsing the Library Board's recommendation and this is what it is. Even though you've got it in the last whereas. Todd Gerhardt: I was suggesting take out completely the fourth whereas. Mayor Jansen: Take that out altogether? Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Todd Gerhardt: If you don't have a problem with that. Councilman Labatt: I think re-word that. That has a lot of important things to say in there. I want the operating and capital budget request, the Library Board, request was also made through the Library Board for. Mayor Jansen: There you go. Councilman Labatt: A request was also made through the Library Board. Mayor Jansen: Or by the Library Board. Councilman Labatt: By the Library Board for significant increases in the number of staff. I think you can leave it in there but just put it in there, just comma. By the Library Board significant increases. Todd Gerhardt: I got them. Councilman Labatt: I want to send a message to them, you know. Mayor Jansen: No, I'm liking this and I hope you understand what I'm saying is, I don't want it to appear as though we're launching off of, we're supporting what they're. Councilman Ayotte: I want to know who that half commissioner is, that's what I'm wondering. Mayor Jansen: Okay so. Todd Gerhardt: So I should take out up above, at the time that the referendum, members of the County Board assured the Chanhassen City Council numerous times that the library would be furnished and, because they didn't talk about staffed. Just furnished. 17 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Councilman Labatt: How about furnished and fully funded? That we're not saying staffed. Roger Knutson: I'd suggest that second whereas really doesn't say a whole lot from the sense, presumably it would be staffed. You couldn't have a library without.., what the staffing level would be, but it would have to be staffed. Linda Landsman: The library just wouldn't be open very often. Roger Knutson: Presumably without staff not at all. It'd be a one way circulation library. Todd Gerhardt: Alright. Mayor Jansen: Yeah, and maybe we work on that second whereas a little bit. If you're comfortable with that. But let's go ahead and get the resolution passed this evening with the understanding that staff may have to tweak this a little bit just to make sure we're forwarding something that's totally accurate. Councilman Ayotte: Councilman Labatt, make the motion then. Councilman Labatt: Well with that then Mr. Ayotte, I'll wait for your second then, I would move that we approve this resolution subject to final changes and the word smithing by Mr. Gerhardt and Mr. Knutson, and send it down to the County Commissioners promptly. Councilman Ayotte: Second that. Resolution #2002-88: Councilman Labatt moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded that the City Council approve a Resolution Supporting Full Funding of the New Chanhassen Library to the Carver County Board of Commissioners, subject to final changes being made and approved by the City Manager and City Attorney. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. Mayor Jansen: The motion carries 4-0. Why don't I read the resolution we've now been debating. A resolution supporting full funding of the new Chanhassen Library. Whereas, the Carver County Library Board, Carver County Board of Commissioners and the City of Chanhassen signed a joint powers agreement on June 15, 1981 supporting a library branch in the City of Chanhassen. Under this agreement the City and County share expenses associated with the operation of the library. Whereas, on Tuesday, September 12, 2000 Chanhassen voters approved a referendum in the amount of $6 million to build a new library in Chanhassen to meet the growing demographics of the city and county. Whereas, the County library system, under the direction of the Library Board, has put forth a 2003 budget for the entire library system in the amount of $3,169,529. This includes $982,398 to furnish and equip the Chanhassen Library. Whereas, along with the operating and capital budget request, a request was also made by the Library Board for significant increases in the number of staff for the Chanhassen Library and other branches in the library system. The Chanhassen Library is currently open 51 hours per week. It is staffed well below the national standard. When the new library opens, additional staffing is critical to the ongoing delivery of services in a building that will increase in size from 3,000 to 34,000 square feet. With the additional 8 positions requested, the library could be open 60 hours a week, year round and will meet the needs of all county residents. Chanhassen constituents became accustomed to having access to the library on Sundays this summer when the Chaska library was closed, and requests that Sunday hours be reinstated. If the staffing level does not increase, the library would need to significant reduce the current number of hours it is open. 18 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 This would impact all branches, not just Chanhassen. Whereas, during August of 2002 our library averaged over 40 library customers, 66 check-outs and 15 reference questions each hour. It is anticipated that this number will increase by at least 4 times once the new building opens. It's amazing what staff does in that little space. Whereas the population of Carver County has risen steadily since the 1980's. In that same time frame, the circulation of materials at the Chanhassen Library has increased by 816 percent. Citizens have come to expect more complete collections, including current technology that provides access to the worldwide web, informative services and programs. This library is being constructed by the vote of Chanhassen citizens to meet these demands. Now therefore, be it resolved that the Chanhassen City Council requests that the Carver County Board fully fund the Carver County Library Board's recommended budget for 2003, which would increase the staffing levels, hours of operation and capital purchases needed for the new Chanhassen Library. That's wordy enough, people are going to think I wrote it. Councilman Ayotte: God I wish I'd said that. Mayor Jansen: Thank you. Appreciate your bringing that forward and we will double check all of that information and the resolution and forward that onto the County, and Linda thank you for providing your comments this evening around that. Okay, moving on. We've added agenda item number 4(b). Discussion of a Public Safety Advisory Group or Citizen Neighborhood Group. Councilman Labatt. Councilman Labatt: Yeah. For quite some time now we've himmed and hawed as a group about our law enforcement services and public safety needs and determining the scope and what our needs are, and I just think now would be a good time to place on our next work session agenda a discussion about re-instituting the public safety commission or a law enforcement advisory commission to work with all of our providers, the sheriff's office, the fire department, Southwest Metro Drug Task Force, the ambulance service, Scott Gerber down there at the Carver County Emergency Management System, and even the Homeland Defense to look at what we need here in Chanhassen to facilitate discussion amongst the residents and those providers so I think it'd be a good time to do that now and get the ball rolling on it. Mayor Jansen: I appreciate your bringing that up. In fact it's a topic that in the last two budget sessions with the sheriff's department there has been conversation around formation of a citizens advisory group from his own need for potential input on issues so I know that there has been a receptiveness to some sort of putting into place of a group of residents so to have that be a part of our conversations around the budget and potentially seeing what kind of a group the sheriff's department, Sergeant Potts would like to see maybe put into the work plan because at this point I don't believe it's in this year's work plan and we haven't had the budget conversation yet on the planning and formation of the work plan for next year. So maybe we can rope that into those discussions as well. Councilman Ayotte: Well I agree that we should have a discussion. I'm keen on the idea of having it in a work session. I'm keener on the idea of having it on the agenda to formulate a motion following the work session. I am not keen on the idea that it should be in a response to a need that Sergeant Potts or others would make. I would rather see it as an advisory entity, a commission to advise this council on matters of public safety. Not limited to law enforcement, but beyond those parameters. And I think given the national climate, and given what has been stated about the most at risk group that is local community, not a county or state or fed, but local, and I think we have to move expeditiously, so I would not be in favor of discussions beyond next 19 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 meeting. I'd be in favor of a discussion at the next work session and something on the agenda after the next work session. Mayor Jansen: Understood. I would just want council to also consider our working relationship with the sheriff's department and that we would need that to be part of a work plan so that we are having an open discussion with that group. I was not suggesting that it would be based upon the sheriff department needs, but it would certainly be in coordination since we are working in a cooperative partnership with that organization so if council is comfortable, I'm hearing that we would like to put that onto the next work session agenda and we can further discuss it in detail. Councilman Boyle: Okay, because I do have some questions but. Mayor Jansen: Okay. Councilman Boyle: Are we talking about an advisory committee primarily? Or are we talking something beyond that? Or we don't know yet? Mayor Jansen: That's what the conversation will be. Yeah. As to what exactly we would be pulling together, so why don't we, I don't know what's on our work session at this point so we do not interfere with our budgeting, we don't want to throw our budget discussions off or any of our long range key financial strategies. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, you have Ehlers on for the 14th. Coffee shop on for the 14th. That I'm aware of just off the top of my head. Mayor Jansen: Okay. If you could pop it on there and council will then just have to have the understanding that if we don't get it all covered ahead of time, we're then following with a work session after the council meeting. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, if you could e-mail me some of your concerns or issues and that would give me the opportunity to talk with our sheriff or start brainstorming on how I'm going to try to manage this commission. Mayor Jansen: Because I'm hearing a different structure than we've had previously. Todd Gerhardt: We're completely having somebody that we contract with work with one of our commissions without staff there so. Councilman Ayotte: Well it'd have to have staff there. Todd Gerhardt: Well, yeah. Mayor Jansen: That's what we need to talk about. Councilman Labatt: I just wanted to bring it up and get the ball rolling on it. Mayor Jansen: Alright. Then continuing with agenda item number 4, just any updates from council on any of the commissions. I actually wanted to just note to council that we did hear in our joint Planning Commission and council meeting about the ribbon cutting for the Powers Ridge Apartments. I did go over. Kate Aanenson was there. Sharmeen was able to attend. They have done a lovely job with that building. It is a quality apartment complex. Of the 100 units, 20 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 they've already rented out 51. The single bedroom apartments were some of the first to rent out the most quickly, and it's just, it's a quality project. If you have a chance to go over and take a look, they've got the community pool is open. Indoor pool. There's a fitness room in the building. And once they are 80 percent complete they can then start the other buildings for the project so I think there are 4 additional apartment buildings in that complex so those will go forward as they lease up about 80 percent of the first building so. Otherwise, I don't think there were any other meetings inbetween now and then. Councilman Labatt: Just a side note on Powers Ridge. When I was over at Lake Susan Hills a couple weeks ago I noticed that that berm came out nice and I know that was a big issue with those residents and they met my expectations and more on what they did over there to minimize the impact so. Mayor Jansen: I've gotten some good feedback also from the residents that were right abutting that property. Again thankful for the berm and appreciative of the mitigation of the impact and they're still loving their neighborhood so I think it addressed all of those issues nicely for them. There is, just so you're aware, a Chamber of Commerce luncheon tomorrow at 11:45 that involves all of our State Senate representatives will be a debate or forum. I don't know that it's actually a formal debate but in a forum over at the Dinner Theater. 11:45. I believe that usually runs until about 1:00 so anyone who's in the audience and wants to see our State Representatives face off, that will be a good opportunity with the Chamber. Anything else council? Councilman Ayotte: One more thing. My son got the Army Commendation Medal this past weekend for action in Afghanistan. He's a member of the 101st Airborne and the battalion that he's a member of received the highest number of decorations since the Vietnam War. Mayor Jansen: Well congratulations. That's wonderful. Thanks for sharing that. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. Todd Gerhardt: The only item I have tonight, Mr. and Mrs. Brown are here. I think they missed out on the visitors presentation. I think they'd like to address the council on a drainage pond issue in their back yard. Staff has met with them on several occasions. Have had discussions with Mrs. Brown this afternoon and they're still addressing some of the issues. Just so you know, we have approved the subdivision over there so we can't place any additional conditions against the subdivision. Right now I think we're educating Mrs. Brown and Mr. Brown on what we can still do in the area to accommodate their concerns so, but I think Mrs. Brown, or Mr. Brown wanted to express their concerns. Mayor Jansen: Certainly. If you'll come up to the podium and just state your name and address for the record, we appreciate it. Colleen Brown: My name is Colleen Brown and I'm at 1360 Ithilien, which is directly behind my property is the pond. I've had an opportunity to really just meet with once with the, some of the members, the engineers and a couple other members of the City of Chanhassen in reference to this. What I wanted to, the reason I came here. I realize that the pond has already been built, and I have had conversations with some of you in reference to this. What I want to resubmit, and I don't think you're aware of is back in 1994 we had the, an engineer do a study on our property. Because the City had made some errors there, specifically in the basement floor and the walls. And as a result our floor had to be literally carved out and new cement poured, and rebar put in the walls because of the moisture in that area, so I want to make sure that that is submitted. I did 21 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 not bring this up in previous meetings in reference to the Knoblauch Addition, 2nd Addition, primarily because initially this was supposed to be a pond that was relatively small and that was going to be about 50 feet away from the property line. It is now 10 feet away from the property line. It is in a very steep slope. Very dangerous for children. Most of these children play in the back yards all the way along Ithilien and currently many of them are walking into that area at great risk. Most of them are like 7 or 8, so they can hopefully pick themselves out but some of the younger kids are, could easily fall into this pond and I think that's very dangerous. I think it's very dangerous, you know we are a town that should protect our children and I think this pond has become much larger, much deeper than originally planned. And certainly a surprise to both my husband and I, and in my meeting again with the City of Chanhassen, they had indicated that it was only going to be a couple of feet and it would be slowly progressively getting then deeper, so that shouldn't be a problem. Literally right in my back, the entire back of my property, it drops significantly down about 10 feet, so I think that's pretty dangerous and that's a change. So I wanted to bring it to your attention because I think it is something that I think we should try to address. We are town council, of the people. To protect our youth and I don't think that this is doing that. And then furthermore, is the concern because the pond is so close to my property, the migration of water as it seeps in directly affects my property. My house. And considering I already have a history with the City of Chanhassen in reference to this, and went through a lot of cost myself to try to correct the problem the first time around in 1994, to have to re-address this with additional cost is something that I certainly don't want to incur. The amount of humidity that I think will come as a result of this can certainly present additional hazards. My basement floor is, or my basement is finished so it's going to be harder for me to detect internally. Certainly I can monitor it from the outside but that becomes very difficult. So again, I realize it's already been built. I realize this is a little late, however I do think that there is enough of a concern here for the fact that children can enter into this pond relatively easily. And I had hoped to be able to put together something in writing for this meeting but it was just a little too fast for me so. Mayor Jansen: Okay, thank you. Under visitor presentations we do try to not put staff on the spot as far as answering questions and concerns here this evening. I know Mr. Gerhardt, you are familiar with this project and you've been interacting with the Brown's with staff, trying to address some of the concerns. Now, I know in our previous conversations Mrs. Brown we have not had any conversation around the safety issues with the slopes. I don't know if staff has actually addressed that issue. All of our conversations were around the water migration issue and the impacts on the property. Have there been any conversations at this point on the slope of the pond? Todd Gerhardt: I think that's when we ended our conversation. I was going to research more to see exactly what the landscape plan called for, and there is one additional row of trees that will be planted along your property. And I have a call into Mr. Knoblauch to see if there could be a second row planted in there. And we talked about a fence, but I don't know if we agreed that that was going to be aesthetically pleasing to the neighborhood. I think we talked more about landscaping as potential buffer between the pond and the children that might use that as a short cut to get to another development. Mayor Jansen: And I guess what I would be interested in, not to set precedent here by doing anything extreme. We have so many of these ponds that are in our neighborhoods and with children nearby. I mean I'm assuming that there are things that are done with the ponds. It's not like we're having drownings or people actually ending up in the ponds, so I'm assuming this one's being constructed similarly. 22 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Todd Gerhardt: Yes. And I'm not familiar with us ever fencing an area. We have done some landscaping in them, but typically you want them to go to a natural wild setting to allow that as a natural filter as runoff goes into these ponds to catch the fines and the different debris that might float in there. Mayor Jansen: Because you end up with some of the vegetation growing around the edges, correct? Todd Gerhardt: Correct. Mayor Jansen: Which would keep kids from going into the ponds, I would imagine. Todd Gerhardt: Well they're definitely an attraction for kids. A lot of neighborhoods will try to keep the cattails down and use them for ice skating and we don't encourage that. They're a utility purpose and I told Mrs. Brown that she has to communicate with her children and neighborhood children to stay off of that ponds. That they are not for those type uses. You may have water running through those systems in the winter time if they're fairly large. You know not all of them freeze over. Mayor Jansen: Not solid. Okay. Colleen Brown: May I comment? Mayor Jansen: Certainly. Colleen Brown: I think it might benefit the council to maybe take a look at this pond specifically as it relates to the back of my yard because the drop off is quite significant. It is unlike any other pond in the area. And kids are going to run through that back and can easily slide down into it with really no protection so I think it is something that warrants at least taking a look at. And again, we are here to protect our children. Councilman Ayotte: But the City Manager did state that you are taking a look at whether or not using landscaping as a means of creating a barrier is a plausible thing to do so that is occurring and I would prefer to see what Todd comes up with to see if that does provide a resolution. And then if it doesn't provide a resolution, then we, the council may be asked to take a look see but I think Todd and the competency with his staff to first go to that step would probably be an advantage. Mayor Jansen: Yeah I appreciate your bringing up the issues and now the issue of safety and Todd can go back and address that issue and take a look at it, so I do appreciate your bringing it up. As I've said, we try not to put him on the spot but I knew he was at least familiar enough to speak to the home water migration and having had staff involved on this issue so we'll continue to rely on Todd and his staff now to get back to you and probably give us an update on the safety issue, but we understand your concerns. Colleen Brown: One last question. In terms of the actual movement of water, is there being considered a fountain or some type of aeration. Something in terms of moving the water so that the water does not remain stagnant in that area. 23 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Todd Gerhardt: We have not implemented a fountain aeration system in any of our storm water ponds, with the exception of the one downtown and that was placed for aesthetic purposes. And it'd be my recommendation to the City Council that we not get into that practice. Colleen Brown: Although this does, really is my back yard. My entire back yard. This pond. Todd Gerhardt: We have ponds in many people's back yards. Side yards. Front yards. That would also, you know aeration is not the solution to the aesthetics of these ponds. Mayor Jansen: There is a program in place that staff is addressing how these ponds are actually maintained and that is through the Water Resource Coordinator so we can certainly have conversations around the whole aesthetic piece of it, but we have probably hundreds, is that safe to say? Hundreds of these ponds. Todd Gerhardt: Oh at least. Justin Miller: I think Kate said there's 350. Mayor Jansen: Okay So we've got numerous situations where staff will be able to do the comparison and help out as far as some of the issues that you've raised. Colleen Brown: The pond that was currently there in that property, and that property did have a fountain. Todd Gerhardt: It was not a city pond. It was a private individual. Mayor Jansen: Okay. There's the difference. So we'll make sure that we're getting back to you then on the additional issues that you brought up here this evening. Appreciate your coming down and speaking with us tonight. Thank you. Anything else under administrative presentations? Todd Gerhardt: No. That's all I have. Mayor Jansen: Under correspondence, I don't know if council noticed there is a letter in here updating us on the situation out on the Highway 101 trail. And I've had the conversation with Mr. Gerhardt that we need to get this updated information communicated then to the neighborhoods so that they've got the most current and the identical information that we have, but from this letter, as with the library, weather has slowed down the construction. So they are trying still to come to as much of a completion as they can before winter is upon us, but we may not get to a complete a state as we would have liked to of, as far as having it paved. But in case you end up with any contact with residents on 101 with the trail, probably best to again refer them to Teresa or the web site, if she's gotten this letter out there, to get the most recent update. Todd Gerhardt: She received that letter last Tuesday. I do not believe she's updated the web site. During the staff meeting tomorrow, you know there still is the possibility of we do have weather like we had last year and we are able to work into December but usually the hot mix plants close on November 15th SO that's kind of the key date, if we're going to try to get blacktop down. And I do not know if Park and Rec would try to remove snow on a gravel base in the winter time. Odds are probably not. But that would be another question I'd ask... 24 City Council Meeting - September 23, 2002 Councilman Ayotte: ... besides mechanical approach to take snow off. There are other things we could do. Todd Gerhardt: Well we don't own a groomer. I meant that's the only thing would be to groom it like a cross country trail. Ski trail I think is what you're. Councilman Ayotte: I'll call you. I don't want to go public, but I'll call you. Todd Gerhardt: I can't read your mind Bob. Mayor Jansen: Okay, but just so council's aware of that update in case you have contact with anyone and we'll make sure that staff is then communicating this information out to the neighbors so that everyone's aware of what is going on, but we have a similar situation of course with the library construction and isn't it our wettest summer on record? Wettest, if not third, yeah. ... okay we want the Friends out there holding umbrellas over the library site. Linda Landsman: We could arrange it. Mayor Jansen: I bet you could. Todd Gerhardt: We don't have the luxury of walking away from the library project like the trail project. That will have to be domed and there will be additional costs associated with that so, you're going to see, if we get pushed into winter construction. I'm just hoping this is just a, to get rid of the mosquitoes here for 2 weeks and then we'll have. Mayor Jansen: A long Indian summer. Okay, anything else council? Okay, then ifI could have a motion to adjourn. Councilman Ayotte moved, Councilman Boyle seconded to adjourn. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The City Council meeting was adjourned at 8:30 p.m. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt City Manager 25