CC 2011 01 24
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 24, 2011
Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was opened with the
Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mayor Furlong, Councilwoman Ernst, Councilman
Laufenburger, Councilwoman Tjornhom, and Councilman McDonald
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Gerhardt, Laurie Hokkanen, Kate Aanenson, Paul Oehme, Todd
Hoffman and Roger Knutson
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Mayor Furlong: Very good and welcome to everybody here in the council chambers and those
watching at home. We’re glad that you joined us this evening. At this time I would ask
members of the council if there are any additions or changes to the agenda. Councilman
Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor I’d just like to add an agenda item related to an item of
the Metro Cities Board. I’d like to introduce a support for nomination for Metro Cities Board.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. We’ll put that as item 6 under new business without objection. I’d
also like to add a item which would be consider a resolution in support of the reappointment of
Craig Peterson to the Metropolitan Council Board District 4. Unless there’s objection I would
include that as item number 7 under new business.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council I drafted a resolution for council to consider under that one if
you got a chance to look at that between now and.
Mayor Furlong: That should have been distributed.
Todd Gerhardt: I did give one to the press.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Alright. With that are there any other changes or modifications to
the agenda this evening? If not we’ll proceed with our first item of business and that is an
invitation to our annual February Festival celebration. This year Chanhassen is pleased to
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announce our 18 Annual February Festival. This is the first in a year long series of special
events sponsored by the City of Chanhassen, local service organizations and our business
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community. February Festival will be held this year on Saturday, February 5 and I’d like to
invite all area residents, their families and friends to join us at Lake Ann for a fun filled day of
activities. The events will begin at noon and include skating, sledding, hayrides, bonfires,
fishing and door prizes. Hot food and concessions will be sold on the ice of Lake Ann by the
Chanhassen Rotary and Culver’s. Boy Scout Troop 330 will be selling live bait and s’mores kits.
The ice fishing contest will run from 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. and include $6,000 in prizes. New this
Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
year Campfire USA and Camp Tanadoona will be hosting ice fishing demo’s. The Friends of the
Chanhassen Library will also be offering bingo and a medallion hunt in the city starting on
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January 30. The person who finds the medallion receives a $750 prize. Each February Fest
attendee will receive one free door prize ticket at the event and you must be present to win over
$3,000 in door prizes. Fishing tickets for the contest are $10 per participant. Tickets are
available at City Hall, Chanhassen Recreation Center and local businesses. If you’d like more
information please check out the City’s web site. I look forward to seeing everyone there.
That’s always a fun event. We have hundreds of people that come out to Lake Ann and enjoy
the nice weather that Mr. Gerhardt always guarantees for us so we’ll expect the same this year as
well. Let’s move on to our next set of items.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman McDonald moved, Councilman Laufenburger
seconded to approve the following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s
recommendations:
a. Approval of Minutes:
-City Council Work Session Minutes dated January 8, 2011
-City Council Work Session Minutes dated January 10, 2011
-City Council Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated January 10, 2011
Receive Commission Minutes:
-Planning Commission Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated January 4, 2011
b. Approve Amendment Chapter 4 of City Code Concerning Fees to use the Chanhassen
Recreation Center.
c. Approve Lease Extension, Old Village Hall, Seattle Sutton.
Resolution#2011-03:
d. Approve Resolution Acknowledging the Transaction of
Mediacom.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
None.
LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIRE DEPARTMENT UPDATE.
Sgt. Peter Anderley: Good evening Mayor, council. You have the numbers for the last end of
the year there. Nothing real significant changes. You might pay attention like I know December
was pretty snowy. We had a little increase in the crashes just based on our you know wonderful
Minnesota road conditions and the amount of traffic out there. It was nothing you know
extraordinary but there was a slight increase there towards the end of the year. Pretty much
that’s really what I have as far as end of the year. We’ll talk more about the end of the numbers
as they come in and I get that put together at a work session here in the near future but as far as
everything else goes it’s been relatively slow I guess and kind of quiet. It’s how we like it.
We’re kind of wrapping up some personnel changes as far as it goes with the sheriff’s office and
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
rotating our staff on a yearly basis. We change positions through promotions. People’s hours
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change. All that. That takes place the 31, next Monday. Pretty much for Chanhassen I believe
there’s a couple of new faces you’ll see around and hopefully I’ll get a chance to introduce those
to the council and people will see some new faces. I did bring Corporal Laurie Finnegan and
Corporal Rena Jandron. They’re going to be the night supervisors I guess as you’d say in
Chanhassen. They’ll kind of oversee what goes on at night when I’m not around and kind of
delegate some things to them but I wanted to bring them down in here to see them if you do have
a run in a call or happen to stop at city hall, these would be your night contacts along with
several of the other deputies so. They’ve both been roughly what 5 years with the sheriff’s
office. They both worked in Chan this previous year and now they will, soon they’ll be, one will
be working Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. The other one will be working Sunday, Monday,
Tuesday and every other Saturday so those will be your two night shifts. Corporals. Any other
questions?
Mayor Furlong: Any questions for Sergeant Anderley? Thank you and welcome to the two
corporals. We appreciate your service and look forward to your help. Thank you and good
night. At this time I’d like to invite Fire Chief Roger Smallback. Good evening Chief for our
monthly report from our Chanhassen Fire Department.
Chief Roger Smallback: Good evening. For the month of January, as of today we’ve received
41 calls for service. So the year to date number also. So far in January we did have one
structure fire. It was a residential structure fire on Mohawk Drive. We were dispatched at 20:34
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hours on January 9 for a residential structure fire there. We found a fire in a second floor
bedroom. The homeowners were home. Had left for about a half hour. Came back and
discovered the fire when they got back. You know no structure fire is ever good but in this case
they were fortunate in that they caught it early and we were able to get to the fire early on and
confine it to what we call a context fire meaning that it was just the contents of the bedroom that
were burning and the fire did not extend and get into the structure and cause a lot of structural
damage. It’s the start of a new year. That means there’s a lot of recap statistics that we like to
look at. A couple of significant numbers, in 2009 we finished the year with 536 calls. In 2010
we finished the year with 645 calls. That’s 109 calls more year over year or about a 20%
increase. In your council packets there is a summary, fire call summary sheet like this and that,
we have that in there every month but this month’s is particularly interesting because it’s a
summary of 2009 versus 2010. That 20% increase is certainly significant and if you looking at
the statistics on this summary sheet that you got the greatest increases were in what they call
rescue emergency medical services incident and then in fire alarm calls. These are fire alarm
calls. Not fire, actual structure fire calls. That’s where the largest increase was year over year.
Another interesting number that I’ll throw out this evening. In 2010 the Chanhassen fire fighters
attended 4,695 hours of training in the last year so very significant number and commitment by
those fire fighters.
Mayor Furlong: Chief, question for you. You said 4,695?
Chief Roger Smallback: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: We have about 43.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Chief Roger Smallback: Right now we have 47 fire fighters.
Mayor Furlong: 47 fire fighters so that’s about 100 hours on average.
Chief Roger Smallback: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: For fire training throughout the year.
Chief Roger Smallback: Throughout the year, yep. Right.
Mayor Furlong: Very good to know. What types of training do they go through? What are the,
general areas?
Chief Roger Smallback: It varies with the time of year.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Chief Roger Smallback: In the winter months and stuff a lot of the training is focused on
medicals. Medical training. Medical skills. Once the weather gets a little bit warmer you get
into April, then we start getting into actual fire suppression training. Practicing with the trucks
and pulling hoses off the trucks and flowing water and running the pumps and doing different
fire scenarios. We also usually do a couple of, we call them crash scenarios or personal injury
automobile accidents. We’ll get some junk cars in and practice cutting them apart and practice
getting people out of the cars, so the training really runs the gamut from classroom stuff that we
do in the wintertime that generally focuses on medical stuff. That’s what we’re doing this
evening and then in the summertime we get into more the fire related stuff but it’s every Monday
night and in addition to that there’s a lot of guys that take additional classes on other nights.
Going over to the Vo-tech and other sectional schools like that so there’s a tremendous
commitment to training by the fire fighters and the fire department.
Mayor Furlong: If anyone’s interested in possibly joining the department, what would be the
best way for them to explore that interest?
Chief Roger Smallback: Right now we’re looking for fire fighters for Station 2, which is located
near the intersection of Minnewashta Parkway and Highway 7. If someone was interested in
becoming a part of the fire department, if they live in that area around Station 2, then they should
contact the fire department. I’ll give you a phone number here real quick. It’s 952-227-1152
and contact that phone number and we can give you more information about it, or there is a
application that’s on the City of Chanhassen website under the fire department. There is a fire
fighter application form that you can download from there and that also has the contact
information on it. We just started recruiting now for Station 2 and would start to do the
screening process and actual hires would really start sometime in March-April, in that area.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Any other questions?
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Councilman Laufenburger: I do have a question, if I may Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Chief, thanks for your service. Not only your’s but also the other
members of the fire department. It gives us a good feeling to have you in place. Thank you.
You mentioned you drew our attention to the false alarms. Is there any concern that you have
about the increase in false alarms.
Chief Roger Smallback: Well you know the 20% increase in any area is you know certainly
going to draw our attention. I’ve been doing this a long time and I’ve never been able to really
draw any really definitive correlations between things. The one thing that is, or could very well
be a contributing factor is that Chanhassen, it’s not a brand new town anymore and a lot of the
businesses that have these fire alarms and stuff like that, some of those are getting to be a few
years old and just like anything else fire alarm systems as they age suffer malfunctions and that,
so that’s certainly a part of it. Some of it, a little bit of that would be due to growth but again not
20% and that so we’ve discussed this amongst our officer group and kind of saying you know
where are we getting all these calls from and I’d say the one area that we do have, that’s suspect
is just the aging of the buildings in Chanhassen and the aging of the alarm systems.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions at this time? Very good Chief, thank you.
PUBLIC HEARING: 2011 STREET IMPROVEMENT PROJECT 11-01: PUBLIC
HEARING; AUTHORIZE PREPARATION OF PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS.
Public Present:
Name Address
Tom Elmer 2040 Oakwood Ridge
Colleen Dockendorf 2061 Oakwood Ridge
Julie E. Pawlak 2031 Timberwood Drive
Steven & Carol Heinz Kelley 2071 Timberwood Drive
Linda M. Zellman 2290 Timberwood Drive
Julie & Greg Maanun 8040 Acorn Lane
Randy & Alison Blackowiak 8140 Maplewood Trail
Darla Yerkes 2030 Renaissance Court
James Dockendorf 2061 Oakwood Ridge
Mitch Krause 2380 Timberwood Drive
Greg Peshek 7521 Chippewa Trail
Tahir Khan 2040 Renaissance Court
Judith M. Swihart 7571 Chippewa Trail
Steve Elward 7571 Chippewa Trail
Jerry Murkowski 2051 Renaissance Court
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Kathi Cadmus 8426 Stone Creek Court
Jeff Heinz 2050 Oakwood Ridge
Lon Noller 2381 Timberwood Drive
Glenn Steffen 2050 Timberwood Drive
Gerald Dresow 7601 Nicholas Way
Pat T.K. Khan 2040 Renaissance Court
Bonnie Murkowski 2051 Renaissance Court
Kristen Zellman 2290 Timberwood Drive
Glovanni Riva 7625 Nicholas Way
Debra Lano 2060 Oakwood Ridge
Tom Henderson 7488 Saratoga Drive
Gary Beebe 7484 Saratoga Drive
Mike Latanision 2051 Timberwood Drive
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Richard Kvanbeck IRET Properties, 800-960 West 78 Street
Steve Emerson 8409 Stone Creek Court
Ralph Cadmus 8426 Stone Creek Court
Jared Gehle 8410 Stone Creek Court
Tim & Tari Haunty 7470 Saratoga Drive
Brian Johnson 8120 Pinewood Court
Jackie Neva 2230 Timberwood Drive
Mark Falzone 7633 Nicholas Way
Jeni Perrill 2101 Timberwood Drive
Robert W. Lawson 2041 Renaissance Court
Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor and City Council members. Just a little housekeeping before we
begin here. We did receive several emails over the last week and a half or so that were either
included in your packet or emailed out to the City Council and just today we did receive a
petition from Timberwood Drive neighborhood that I’d like to include in the record as well so,
for your review as well so with that this is the 2011 street improvement project. Annually the
City considers streets that are in need of rehabilitation or reconstruction considered for
improvements. Again the streets that are proposed to be improved this summer have been rated
by the City pavement management system which evaluates about a third of the city streets
annually so every 3 years we evaluate the condition of each of the streets and we assign a
number to the condition of the streets being one as basically a brand new street where 0 is a
completely destroyed street. And then we also visually inspect each of the streets that are being
proposed for improvements as well. Streets proposed for rehabilitation like this year can no
longer really be maintained cost effectively by minor maintenance techniques such as sealcoating
and crack sealing and those type of things. The street conditions have gone to a level of distress
where those type of improvements are no longer cost effective. The streets again they’re getting
up there in years. Most of the streets that we’re talking about are at least 20 years old so it’s time
for considering some sort of improvements. Projects have been planned for many years. We do
have projects that are in the works for at least 5 years and it does take a lot of time to put these
projects together so. And just as a side, you know delaying street projects too, the streets would
deteriorate quicker now that they’re at these certain levels. Typically when streets are in need of
rehabilitation and have distresses, alligator pavement, the streets typically tend to deteriorate
faster at this point in time than when they were newer so more potholes. More bump outs. More
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
heaving of the streets in the wintertime so, which creates more patching for the City to do during
the summer months and generates more complaints as well too so. And if streets are delayed
from the proposed year that typically we like to move the streets that are in the pipeline up one
more year and then the proposed streets that are not, that are being delayed further along since
we are working on several projects concurrently. Again the, so the project areas is shown here.
They’re mainly 3 project areas. Major project areas. One consisting of the Santa Vera Drive
area just north of the downtown off of Powers Boulevard and Kerber Boulevard. The downtown
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area of 78 Street from Powers Boulevard to Market Boulevard and the associated side streets,
and then Timberwood Drive neighborhood. Also included in the project is replacement of trails
segment off of Stone Creek Drive and a little section off of Trunk Highway 5 as well. Typically
the City likes to include smaller maintenance projects and larger projects to, we feel we get
better costs for those smaller projects if we include them in larger projects versus bidding those
projects out separately. And then also expansion of a small parking lot at City Hall. So I’d just
like to briefly go through each of the project areas in general. First is the urban commercial area.
This is again a downtown street area. The length of these streets is about a little over 7/10ths of
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a mile. West 78 Street is proposed to be milled and then overlaid. Milled down 3 inches and
overlaid with 3 inches of asphalt. There are some minor curb distresses that we’d like to replace
at this time in conjunction with the project and then all the loop detectors at each of the signals
would also be replaced at this time. The side streets, Target Lane and Kerber Boulevard would
also be overlaid at this time with a 2 inch overlay. Shown here is the pavement condition
indexes so 26 is fairly low on our scale. 60 is a little bit higher. Typically in a rehabilitation
type of project we like to see a range between 65 and 45 so if you average out all these streets
it’s pretty close to, falls in our guidelines. The next area is the urban residential area. This is the
area just north of downtown. Mainly along Santa Vera Drive from Powers Boulevard to Kerber
Boulevard. Santa Vera Drive east of Kerber Boulevard. Chippewa Trail. Chippewa Circle and
Saratoga Drive is all proposed to be included in the overlay project for this neighborhood.
Similarly to the other overlay projects we’re looking at milling approximately 2 inches of the
surface of the streets in this area and replacing with 2 inches of new bituminous pavement for
smoother riding surface. There are some distresses, major distresses out here that we like to
replace as well, specifically on Saratoga Drive. There’s a couple areas on Chippewa too that we
want to chunk out or replace with some better sub-grade material. Aggregate. And then also
there’s some minor drainage improvements that we’d like to include in the project as well.
Mainly drain tile along the back of the curb along Saratoga Drive at the end of the cul-de-sac and
down to Santa Vera as well. And then there is also another area just off of Kerber Boulevard that
doesn’t drain very well on Saratoga Drive that we’d like to put some drain tile in and reconstruct
that intersection a little bit better than it is to have positive drainage. Basically including a valley
gutter. So that’s the urban area. And then the rural residential area is the Timberwood Drive
neighborhood. This is approximately 1.1 miles worth of street. This is a rural section currently
and it’s proposed to remain a rural section with not any, with no curb and gutter. Concrete curb
and gutter. That’s added so the idea here is to mill up the existing asphalt in place. There’s
approximately 3 to 4 inches of asphalt in the Timberwood Drive neighborhood. We’ll grind it up
to approximately Class V aggregate condition which is more or less the same aggregate
gradation that’s out there currently. Re-grade that area and then repave it with 3 inches of
asphalt. This allows for a little bit stronger pavement section then there is currently today.
There is no sewer and water in this area and there is no sewer and water, city sewer and water
proposed to be extended in conjunction with this project either. Again the pavement conditions
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
are rated here and they are quite low. Staff has met with neighborhoods in this area twice. Once
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on January 8. Basically we met with our, December. I’m sorry December 13. December 8
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for the entire project areas. All three major project areas and then on January 12 specifically
for, with the Timberwood Drive neighborhood. In conjunction with the project staff had looked
at making a connection to Timberwood Drive. This connection was proposed based upon two
things. The recently adopted 2030 Comprehensive Plan includes specifically this roadway
connection to be evaluated at the opportune time for reconnection. And then also the City Code
Section 18-57 you know limits the length of cul-de-sacs to 800 feet. That is a newer standard or
code than was here originally when the neighborhood was developed but we just wanted to you
know every time we go through a new project area we like to bring neighborhoods up to current
standards so every proposal that the City brings, or staff brings forward we like to look at all
those issues and see what makes sense. So the neighborhood meeting that we had on January
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12, there were some significant concerns by the residents regarding the connection to Stone
Creek. They’re listed here and they include vehicle safety. Increased traffic volumes. Several
property owners thought there might be some more cut through traffic through the neighborhood
then there is right now since it is a long cul-de-sac. Pedestrian safety was identified as a concern
as well. There is no sidewalk along Timberwood Drive and access, or getting pedestrians off to
the side of a road if that road would be connected is a concern for many residents. And then
property safety as well. Residents do feel like the cul-de-sac deters would be thieves from
accessing their property since there is only one access point at this time and speed limits.
Residents felt that the speed limit might, or the speed of the vehicles going through the
neighborhood may increase because the feel of Timberwood is more wide open. Although it is a
narrower street. And then the change in the rural residential character of the Timberwood Drive
area was also brought up as well, and then the decreased property values was also a concern that
was brought up with the neighbors so. So that’s in summary that’s I think the major issues that
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staff heard at the January 12 meeting. Moving on. The non-assessable, smaller project areas
that are proposed to be included in this project, the reconstruction or the removal the replacement
of Stone Creek Drive trail. Again we just try to include these project areas. Smaller projects in
larger projects just for competitive bids. We feel we get better cost bids from adding them in.
And then also the inclusion of the southeast parking lot here at City Hall. Based upon the library
activities, events and the senior events here at City Hall campus, there is definitely a need for
additional parking at this facility. Staff has tried to work with the library and senior events to
stagger them and move schedules around to best align with parking needs. But that’s been only
has a limited effect or, so at this time we’re looking at proposing 12 additional stalls. Basically
the project would move the center island and have additional 12 stalls here creating a additional
back to back, or a front to front parking area. A long median and then pushing the north curb
line up north a little bit so. So with that general overview of what the project includes, again
street rehabilitation projects that falls under our assessment practice of assessing 40% of the
benefiting cost back to the property owners adjacent to the project. And assessments are based
on the cost that the City receives for, from the contractor. It’s not based on the cost estimate in
the numbers that we hear tonight so. For the urban commercial area, this is based upon, the
assessment is again a 40% of the construction cost and spread over the parcels in the downtown
area. This assessment was based upon an area charge consistent with what the second rule was
for the eastern section of the downtown area. When that was overlaid in 2004 so we’re being
consistent with that last project that was completed in the downtown area so that was based on
the area charge. For the medium high density residential areas, the cost is shown here.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Assessments are calculated based upon those assessment amounts. For the multi-family areas
the proposed assessment is $251 and it’s spread over 147 assessable units. Included in that
assessment amount is the Carver County CDA apartment complex and then one property owned
and maintained by the City. For the single family residential property, this is the property on the
other, on the east side of Kerber Boulevard. Assessments were based upon 145 assessable units.
Five units associated with the apartment complex on Saratoga and then 3 assessable units based
upon the City Center Park as well so, for a proposed planned unit assessment along of 150,
$1,521. And then for the rural residential, the Timberwood Drive neighborhood, assessments are
shown here an estimated cost for this project and that’s spread over 38 assessable units in the
neighborhood for an estimated unit assessment per lot of $3,846 at this time. So with that,
basically just showing you the funding and what was budgeted for 2011 for this project is shown
here. Again the trail improvements and the City Hall parking lot expansion are not proposed to
be assessed. That’s 100% city funded cost. For the assessments for rehabilitation projects the
City practice has been to assess the projects over an 8 year assessment period at 6% interest and
that we always look at, look at re-revaluing the interest rate based upon prime rate at the time of
the letting or the time that we get the bid in so that assessment rate could fluctuate at the time of
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the assessment hearing is held. So if the project were to move forward on February 28 staff is
anticipating the plans and specs to be done. At that point in time we would ask that the council
authorize advertising for bids. This allows the City to solicit contractors to give us bids on the
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project and once we get those bids in on April 25 we potentially would have the assessment
hearing and accept the bids and award a contract. That would be another property owner
notification for that meeting as well. So and just to outline construction schedule, the project
will move forward after that. We would propose basically a three phase project. One being the
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rural residential, the Timberwood Drive and the trail improvements to start around May 11 and
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then be completed before July 1 or there about’s. The urban commercial areas of downtown
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and urban residential areas, we would propose to start those areas after July 11. After the 4 of
July celebration and have those done before Labor Day. And then the parking lot improvements
would start after Labor Day and be completed in about a month’s timeframe so with that quick
overview of the project, I’d be happy to try to answer any questions that you would have and I’d
request that a public hearing be opened at this time.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Let’s start with questions from council for staff. Anybody
have any questions? Councilman McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah, I have a question. You know I read through the staff report and
everything and I read the minutes from the meeting back in ’92 I believe. There was an issue
brought up at that time concerning an emergency barrier. What exactly would that look like and
how would it work?
Paul Oehme: Emergency barrier. It could be a knock down type of barrier post. Right now I
believe the posts that are out there right now are wood so theoretically they can be easily
knocked down but right now there is Type 4 barricades there that are consistent with MnDOT
recommendations for streets that don’t have a cul-de-sac or turn arounds. Reflective type of
panels that are out there so seems to be working at this time.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Councilman McDonald: Is there anything, any, when you say posts and everything that are in
the ground, how are those break away? I mean is it such that a fire truck can drive up to them
and it breaks them but then does it do damage to the truck?
Paul Oehme: I believe so. I mean luckily we haven’t had that situation occur. I’ve heard from
residents that kids have been able to skirt around that barricade.
Councilman McDonald: And then with a fire truck we’re talking about a big vehicle. How
about a police cruiser? Are they set up? You know is there something that can be set up so that
a cruiser, if it needed to get in there, it could gain access?
Paul Oehme: Well I think it comes down to the grades that are there. The last time I was out
there I believe there’s somewhat of a significant drop off from one road to another so I think it’s
not the barricades that would be the issue. It’s the grades getting from one street to another plus
the growth of some of the trees and brush in that area might limit the amount of access that can
potentially be gained by an emergency vehicle at this time.
Councilman McDonald: Well as part of the project going forward what are you proposing to
close that gap? Are we going to build a bridge? Are we going to put a causeway in there? How
are we going to bridge the gap?
Paul Oehme: Right, well the idea would be to remove the barricades and remove the cul-de-sac
that’s there and extend the road from Stone Creek to Timberwood Drive. So it’s basically would
be to pave a new section of street from one street to another so that would be the, that would be
the idea if those, the improvements if the project, if that connection were to be made.
Councilman McDonald: So would it be possible to do the connection and leave the cul-de-sac
and put a barricade in place?
Paul Oehme: I suppose there would be, yeah.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. No further questions.
Mayor Furlong: Other questions for staff at this time? Councilwoman Tjornhom any?
Councilwoman Ernst, any questions for staff?
Councilwoman Ernst: Not at this time.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor, I do have a couple questions. Is it City
policy that would allow residents who are assessed for street repairs, is it possible for them to
pay off that assessment early as opposed to over time?
Paul Oehme: Absolutely yeah. Any time in that construction year before December I think first,
the resident would have the opportunity to pay up that assessment in full without interest being
accrued.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Councilman Laufenburger: And what’s the process they use? They just come to City Hall and
say.
Paul Oehme: Yep, they would just come to City Hall. If the project were to move forward and
the assessments, we know the exact assessments. At the assessment hearing there’d be a notice
that we’d send out to all the property owners. In that notice there would be information on how
to pay off your assessments early if you so choose.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And then that’s reported at the county level so that it doesn’t
appear in the property taxes, is that right?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, it would basically, the property owner could, would pay that off at the City
level so it wouldn’t be recorded at the county level.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Just one other question Mr. Oehme. In referencing the
Timberwood project you used the word it’s narrower than other streets. What is the width of the
Timberwood versus the width of Stone Creek versus the width of Galpin?
Paul Oehme: I don’t know the width of Galpin. That’s a county road off the top of my head.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, how about Stone Creek?
Paul Oehme: Timberwood is roughly about 25 feet wide and then Stone Creek is right around 31
feet.
Councilman Laufenburger: And Stone Creek has curbs?
Paul Oehme: Yes it does. It’s an urban section so it has curb and gutter.
Councilman Laufenburger: And it also has a sidewalk or a trail? Sidewalk?
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Is that correct? Okay. Okay. Then related to the question that
Councilman McDonald asked, if you were to make that connection would it be necessary to do
any re-grading so that the decline, or the whatever the technical word is, Stone Creek Court goes
down. The cul-de-sac is kind of flat. Would you need to raise up that portion that you would
pave at all?
Paul Oehme: Yeah we would have to look at the grades in there. In our original thought process
if, you know if that connection were to be made that cul-de-sac would go away. There’s a lot
more opportunities to tie in to Timberwood Drive from Stone Creek. If that cul-de-sac were to
remain there’d be a steeper drop off there I believe so we’d have to look at the grades there and
maybe adjust the cul-de-sac accordingly.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Okay. At this time?
Councilman Laufenburger: At this time.
Mayor Furlong: Yep. Everyone always has a right to ask a question later.
Councilwoman Ernst: I do have a question.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Paul, can you tell me when you had the neighborhood meeting on January
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I believe it was, I’m sorry December 8. There was a request to check into the concrete edging
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and then you brought it back on January 12 and the residents decided that they didn’t want that
option. Was that due to cost or why?
Paul Oehme: I don’t think the neighbor, speaking for the neighborhood I think they didn’t think
it was necessary. There was an additional cost associated with installing that concrete curbing.
Typically the City does not participate in those type of improvements if there isn’t curb already
there so that improvement would be assessed 100% back to the benefiting property owners so in
lieu of that we’re just going back with basically the same pavement section that’s there right now
which is pave the road to it’s current width and then we’ll have a gravel shoulder that’s, I think
it’s about a foot and a half wide right now so we’ll just gravel that back in.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. And then my last question is, in 1992 the council decided that they
didn’t need, that this neighborhood didn’t need that connection and I’m wondering when the
ordinance was created, I’d like to know when the ordinance was created. If that was in there I
didn’t see it, and why was it created other than having that second throughway?
Paul Oehme: You’re talking about the length of the cul-de-sac?
Councilwoman Ernst: I’m sorry, right. The 800 feet.
Paul Oehme: Yep, the 800 feet. I think that came up, I don’t know Kate, probably 5, 8 years ago
there was a couple developments that came, that were proposed with longer cul-de-sacs and
weren’t connecting through to other developments. Just for the sake of continuity I think.
Emergency vehicle access and you know two way, just vehicle movement I think that ordinance
was approved based upon discussions that we had with the council at that time.
Councilwoman Ernst: So.
Mayor Furlong: Excuse me, my recollection is it was sometime in the probably 2004 to 2005-
2006 timeframe, if I’m not mistaken. I think Councilman Lundquist was still on the council at
that time.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Kate Aanenson: It was part of that and then I think we also looked at overall street standards
when we were updating some things so we looked at what’s our street widths. Kind of reviewed
that policy. Street length for cul-de-sacs. Because that’s in that peak time of we were doing a lot
of subdivisions and kind of reviewing, you know we had a lot of requests to vary, a narrower
streets. So I think we looked at all of that and cul-de-sac length was just one of the components
of that.
Mayor Furlong: So consistency and all the other factors that we considered.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. I think that was the main point of being consistent with all the
subdivisions and people wanted relief from some of those.
Mayor Furlong: Yep.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay, thank you.
Councilman Laufenburger: I recalled my other question.
Mayor Furlong: Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme, in your, in the packet with the, that was handed out to
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the residents at the January 12 meeting there was reference to a realignment of the trail. Can
you just speak to that? Assuming the connection were to take place.
Paul Oehme: For the Timberwood?
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah for Timberwood, yeah.
Paul Oehme: Right now the trail extends over to Galpin Boulevard. The idea would be to
connect the trail into the roadway section. T-ing it into Stone Creek a little bit better and then
extending it farther into Timberwood. We wouldn’t extend the trail into Timberwood all the way
to Galpin but just to have a better connection than there is right now so, basically working with
the grades better than they are right now in conjunction with the roadway connection.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. But not extending the trail the full length of Timberwood is
that correct?
Paul Oehme: Correct. Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Give me a guess, 50 feet? 20 feet? 100 feet? What’s your
thoughts? To the cul-de-sac?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, just to the cul-de-sac basically.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Excuse me, just a follow-up on that. Could you pull up a picture of maybe the
project and just kind of show us quickly what you’re talking about. I don’t know if it’s going to
be detailed enough.
Paul Oehme: Well as you can see it on this drawing here where my clicker is.
Mayor Furlong: Right.
Paul Oehme: The trail extends basically along here so basically it is extend the trail basically a
ped, a pedestrian ramp would be installed there. A little curb work would be extended there too.
Everything would be constructed within the City right-of-way obviously but the grades and
connection to Timberwood would be gained a little bit better than it is right now, and you have to
walk down through a ditch section there and it’s through some brush so.
Mayor Furlong: And would you require connection of the roadways to do those improvements
or is that independent?
Paul Oehme: No, those can be completely independent too if the council so chooses.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, but that’s all part of, that would be priced within the project itself.
Paul Oehme: Right, yep. That’ll be included in the connection.
Mayor Furlong: Some other questions and I’ll hit different portions of these different projects at
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different times. If we start with the urban section. The West 78 Street section. Just looking at
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the map and the, if you can pull that one up. The pavement index indices there along West 78
where we’re just approaching the mill and overlay section at 60 to 71 there. I thought I heard
you say that if we defer this even a year or two then we’re going to start seeing those, the quality
of the pavement deteriorate at a more rapid pace than it has in the past. Has that just been your
experience?
Paul Oehme: That’s just been our experience, and you can look at any paving regression curves
that are out there and typically when the pavement hits these type of numbers then the pavement
condition typically rapidly, or decreases faster than it had in the past.
Mayor Furlong: So it’s not a linear. When you start with a new street, you get out to a certain
point when it reaches these numbers, it’s not linear in it’s decline but it’s slow at first but then it
accelerates.
Paul Oehme: Right, it’s more of an accelerated decrease. If you think about it, you know
there’s, when you have more cracks, more distresses in the pavement, there’s going to be more
potential surface water getting in there which decreases the strength of the sub-grade. You’re
going to get more water. If you get more water in the sub-grade, you’re going to get more
heaving so everything’s kind of moving around. It’s going to start breaking up a little faster.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
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Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then some of the other pavement indices off of West 78 here are
fairly low. 17. 25. I guess we have one 56. 26. Those are generally in the area where we
would be reconstructing, correct?
Paul Oehme: Sure.
Mayor Furlong: Is it going to be an aggressive mill and overlay or is it going to be a minor
reconstruction if there is such a thing?
Paul Oehme: And some of those, I know on like Target Lane there, that’s pretty well potholed
there so there are some areas that we might look at removing, completing removing the asphalt
and paving a new pavement section in there and that’s all priced into the project right now.
Mayor Furlong: And that was my next question. You figured those.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Mayor Furlong: The additional effort necessary has been figured into the cost.
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Or preliminary cost estimates. Okay. And then if we go to the next project
area, thank you. Similar thing here. We have some pretty low numbers. Most, these that I’m
looking at, we have one at 41. Other than that they’re under 40 which again generally falls into
that reconstruction area.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Mayor Furlong: Are you confident that a mill and overlay is going to be an efficient use of
funds? That it’s not just going to deteriorate further, more quickly than if we went in and
reconstructed these roads.
Paul Oehme: Yeah I think so. We try to get about 15 to 20 years out of these roads. With
proper maintenance I think we can achieve that goal and again I know in Saratoga Drive area
there’s some pretty bad areas and Santa Vera Drive, I know we want to rip out some of that
asphalt and some of the sub-grade as well. The Class V and replace it with new material. Just
give it a better structural strength there so that is also priced into the project as well.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then if you can go to the next project area. Project 3. I think you
had mentioned this. There’s currently no City utility services in this neighborhood, is that
correct? There’s no municipal water or sanitary sewer.
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Storm water management is a rural ditch area as opposed to storm water system
drains and piping and such like that.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Paul Oehme: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: And then maybe this is a question for Ms. Aanenson on this one. Rural
residential as a property use, help us understand. We have other areas in our city that are
similarly zoned. Help us understand the thought process behind a neighborhood zoned this.
Kate Aanenson: Prior to 1987 there was a lot of rural residential done that was outside kind of
what was demanded for urban services. In 1987 the Metropolitan Council made us sign the Lake
Ann Interceptor Agreement which said we would no longer do 2 ½ acre sized lots. So
everything else would be put on urban services so these rural residential lots as we call them
have a minimum acreage size of 2 ½ acres. And as we’ve updated the Comprehensive Plan, in
the last 20 years we’ve accepted that as a rural lifestyle choice that people have made and it’s not
our intent to provide, our, the City’s intent to provide municipal services. But as we, as
development occurs around them we always go back and look at you know the interplay of how
they relate to the city now. Now this one, because it had a street, intended to be tied in the
future. Some of the other ones didn’t. When the subdivision to the south came in we looked at
that at that time but the rural residential again, it is not our intent to provide municipal services to
those that are sprinkled throughout the city. We’re not using that as a zoning choice in the
future but again the Comprehensive Plan says that zoning can stay in place. As you have the
legislative authority any time, you could change the zoning on that but we stated that if the
residents chose to come forward at some time in the future and say you know we don’t want to
maintain our septic and well. We want to look at some other things that, that you would take that
under consideration as a part of changing any zoning to provide for that, but it’s not our intent to
let somebody you know split a lot in the middle of that. They’ve all kind of bought into that
rural residential lifestyle of a minimum lot size.
Mayor Furlong: And so is the minimum lot size then, these.
Kate Aanenson: Some of those lots are over the minimum, yes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And would there be subdivision opportunities for any of these?
Kate Aanenson: It’d be difficult the way the houses are placed on the lots. They’d have to have
two lots combined. Probably maybe split and combine acreage to make that happen. If you
understand what I’m saying. To get to the 2 ½ acres. I think it’s unlikely that there could be any
subdivisions the way the houses are sitting on the lots right now.
Mayor Furlong: To the extent the lot might be larger than the minimum but if the house is in the
middle…
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, depending on the shape of the lot, correct.
Mayor Furlong: Create two lots.
Kate Aanenson: Exactly and setbacks and where the house sits on the lot.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And if currently there are no City services, utility services.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Is that something that residents could petition for at some point in the future?
Kate Aanenson: We’ve had some requests for that. People that have had failing systems in other
areas of the city too. Again what we’ve looked at, if there’s an emergency situation not changing
the character if someone’s on the perimeter of that and can tie into the city. We’ve looked at
those but again it’s not, the intent is not to change the character. If you have 2 or 3 that are
starting to change and want to subdivide, may split one lot but then it starts to change what other
people have bought into in that neighborhood and that’s that rural lifestyle.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: So it’s unique. We’re not doing those anymore so they’re locked in place.
Those type of subdivisions but we have a number of them throughout the city.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then I think Councilwoman Ernst asked about the gutter, which was
looked at along this, the Timberwood here. The concrete gutter and that would not be storm
water management but strictly for pavement integrity.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, and aesthetics maybe. Maybe fall in that same category so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And just for clarification, is it, based on the information, feedback you
received from the residents, is it your proposal to go forward with that or does this project
exclude the concrete curb?
Paul Oehme: It excludes the concrete curb. Basically you’re putting the road back to it’s current
condition.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Thank you. And then can we go to the parking lot. And here I
guess the question is, I think we understand this a little bit. We’re taking out the median. We’re
trying, we need more parking area around the library and the, and City Hall and this would add
12 spaces I think you said. Is there, is on street parking allowed there? Do we have a sidewalk
along City Center Park there? Is that, one is on-street parking allowed and two, is it, would that
provide some additional spaces at a fraction of the cost?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, Cimarron does allow parking, which is north.
Mayor Furlong: What about Market?
Todd Gerhardt: Santa Vera.
Paul Oehme: Or Santa Vera.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Well that runs between the post office and fire station.
Paul Oehme: Right. That one allows parking. Market Boulevard, as I recall does not because
it’s so close to the intersection and there’s so many curb cuts down here, it’d be hard to park in
that area.
Mayor Furlong: And we may not be able to get many cars there.
Paul Oehme: Exactly, and we might not be able to get many cars in that area too.
Mayor Furlong: As I look at this, the cost per additional lot, it seems a little expensive but we’re
obviously working within the size of the area that we’re allowed.
Paul Oehme: Exactly. Yeah, we’ve got several constraints there. Basically on the north side we
have a steep incline, grade that we need to tie into with a small retaining wall. There’s some
concrete gutter work out there that we need to replace so anytime you’re ripping out, replacing
concrete it’s always going to be expensive so. And then the center median too there’s some
grade work in there that is going to require additional concrete and then replacing those trees and
landscaping too is also an additional cost.
Mayor Furlong: Were there alternatives that you looked at in terms of ways to obtain more
parking around City Hall and why are you recommending this instead of?
Paul Oehme: Yep, we did. We looked at several options. I can tell you one we looked at adding
addition parking stalls along Kerber Boulevard in this area and also up in here. Grades, vehicle
conflicts along Kerber Boulevard, it just really doesn’t make any sense. There is currently
parking, allowed along Kerber Boulevard to a portion of that, so we did look at those areas.
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There really isn’t any opportunities. The park down in this area or on 78 Street, we did look at
the fire station. Increasing that parking lot. That didn’t make any sense. We did look at
expanding the north parking lot here. Northwest parking lot. That didn’t seem to make sense for
the needs that we are seeing in terms of the library and the senior events. That’s more for City
Hall parking staff up in that area so, it just seemed, this is kind of the best location that we could
come up with, with the most amount of parking stalls.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, very good. Thank you. Any other questions at this time for staff?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I just have one quickly.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Going back to City Hall parking lot. If I’m correct I think in other
work sessions we’ve talked about you know water runoff is a constant problem that you know
and we battle all the time so were we going to try to use some materials in sections of that or
what was the plan for that?
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Paul Oehme: We aren’t looking at any pervious pavement sections out in this area right now.
The budget that we’re looking won’t allow for that. We are replacing, we’re really not
increasing the impervious surface area out there all that dramatically. We are again removing the
center median here but we’re kind of shifting everything north a little bit. There is basically
utilizing the parking, or the drive lane here as a little bit more pavement than is needed for
driveway aisles so we’re using that towards the parking stalls so in terms of percent increase of
the impervious surface it really isn’t that much based upon this proposal.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. Councilmember Tjornhom I think is referring to a joint project
with the watershed district that I mentioned if we were to do a larger, uniform parking lot up in
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the open skate area where the 4 of July tent sits. Again I think it goes back to Paul’s comments
that the demand for parking is more in the senior center and the library and you know there’s
very few city staff cars and if they are parked there they’re in the upper lot, which really doesn’t
allow for good access to the library or the senior center.
Mayor Furlong: Anything else? During construction, still on the parking lot. During
construction here, what are we going to do in terms of making available, or where are people
going to park when the lot’s under construction?
Paul Oehme: Yep. The library parking lot will always be open. Utilized there. We anticipate
moving some city staff up to the fire station and other locations as well so we’re trying to utilize
as much of the front parking lot for seniors and library patrons as much as we can and then also
moving some of the city staff parking over to the fire station or some other place when the
project under construction for approximately a month timeframe so try to limit the impacts as
much as we can. We figured after Labor Day most of the events, seniors and library events are
pretty much wrapping up so that parking lot doesn’t get used as much in that timeframe so
hopefully the impacts won’t be as great as if we would do it during the summer months.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And I anticipate the answer to this next question but it looks like you’re,
if your schedule of the sequence of the different projects, are you anticipating a single contractor
for all of these projects as opposed to multiple contractors?
Paul Oehme: We would. We would, yep.
Mayor Furlong: You think that’s going to be more economical?
Paul Oehme: Well I think it will be because it’s a larger project. I think there’s going to be
definitely some more mobilization costs associated with it but breaking projects up into smaller
areas typically, or smaller units you typically aren’t going to see as competitive a bid I would
say.
Mayor Furlong: Are you going to be open to, since these are all mill and overlays, one of the
steps is to grind up the existing roadway. Are you going to be amenable to having the contractor
come in to start with the one neighborhood and then immediately move that equipment over to
the next one and kind of move forward so that they can gain as many efficiencies as possible?
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Paul Oehme: Yeah, well we always try to limit the amount of that the contractor has open, or
under construction at one time. Limit that amount so we always write that into our specifications
so for example the Timberwood Drive area, I think we’re going to have to let the contractor mill
that whole area up at one time. Luckily there really isn’t that much say utility, or any utility
work. There’s a couple minor little things that we’re going to have to work on in terms of the
driveways but most of the work associated with that project is pretty straight forward. Once they
mill it up they can pretty, they can turn around and pave that roadway in a fairly short time
period I would say. The more, the urban residential areas there’s, you know there’s more work
to be done there in terms of removing the asphalt and repairing some of those distressed
pavement areas that we talked about. Curb and gutter out there. There’s some staging there and
some drain tile work too so those type of project areas we’re going to limit to how much the
contractor can have opened at one time.
Mayor Furlong: Very good, thank you. Why don’t we go ahead.
Councilwoman Ernst: I have a question.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: So Paul on one of the sections on page 106 you refer to the fact that the
project allows for 12 additional parking stalls but on page 112 when you’re talking about the
description of the project, you’re talking about 10. So are we looking at 12 or 10?
Paul Oehme: Oh. We’re looking at 12. We, under the CIP, the capital improvement plan we
just preliminary looked at the parking lot. We didn’t have any design done at that time. We put
in that budget in the description of the project we put in 10. We’ve identified more area out here
that we can include for parking basically so.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council I just want to assure you that Paul did not fly and take a photo of
the parking lot when it was full one day.
Mayor Furlong: We’ll have to trust you on that.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Unless there are any other questions, or maybe I can ask council. I know that
we have a number of people that would like to provide comments and I’d like to get to them so
what we’ll do at this point is open the public hearing. For efficiency and ease of responding to
questions, what we want to be able to do is if people have questions or statements we want to try
to get you answers while you’re here rather than holding it to the end and so because of that what
we’ll do is we’ll take each of these project segments or the components of the projects one at a
time. And then to the extent that within the project, if there seems to be different issues, we can
try to address those one at a time too. So what I’d like to do is start with the urban commercial
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and if we could, this is project area number 1 which includes West 78 Street, Target Lane,
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
extension of Kerber and some other streets so at this time with regard to the public comment, if
there are interested parties that would like to comment on this, I would invite you forward.
Throughout the public hearing what I would ask is, it’s always helpful to us to understand first of
all whether or not people believe that the project is necessary. If the pavement condition is
justifies doing the project at this time or not. Two, if they have any concerns about the funding
of the project from the assessment practice that we have in place which generally assesses 40%
to the benefiting property owners. And then three, if there are any components of the project
such as perhaps we might get a comment on whether Timberwood Lane should be extended
tonight. Any scope of the project as well that people would, is it needed? Do you agree with the
funding and then the scope of the project? Do you agree or disagree and we certainly are
interested in everybody’s comments. So let’s start with anyone that would like to provide public
comment with regard to the urban commercial project area number 1. Invite you to the podium
at this time. If you could state your name and address for the record.
Richard Kvanbeck: My name is Richard Kvanbeck. I represent IRET Properties. We own the
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property on the north side of West 78 Street from Byerly’s. Basically Kerber Boulevard to
Powers Boulevard.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Richard Kvanbeck: And so I guess Mayor to answer your question, pro or con on the project.
I’m going to remain neutral for the time being but I would ask for a clarification on how the
assessment is reached and the way I’m seeing this material is that, you have project costs broken
down by these different segments. And then do the affected property owners within this segment
then participate in that cost, and if so is that calculated on a front foot basis or how do you, can
you just give me a quick rundown of how that works.
Paul Oehme: Yep. All the three major project areas are, we’ve calculated the cost associated
with each of those project areas separately so Timberwood Drive project area is not going to be
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paying for streets on 78 Street, so vice versa so, so it’s all calculated based upon what we think
the anticipated costs for that particular section is. Now for the urban commercial areas,
consistent with what the City completed in 2004 with the overlay of the east side of the
downtown area, we’re proposing to assess based upon an area charge. Basically the larger your
property owner, the larger the property, the more parking is typically out there, the more traffic
that’s generated, that’s, you would be assessed more based upon the project size. Or the property
size so it’s, we’ve looked at what the assessable amount is. The 40% of the estimated
construction cost and then looked at what the acreage is for the area in question and we only
looked at the property owners, the properties that have access off of this, off of these streets so
we’re not looking at properties north of here or west of here or east of here so. It’s just based
upon the properties that are in the project area that have access that benefit.
Richard Kvanbeck: And then how does the, so 40% of the project cost is then given an area
assessment?
Paul Oehme: Correct.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Richard Kvanbeck: How does that, how does the library, City Hall impact on that?
Paul Oehme: Yep. The library is assessed and City Hall is, or the library is assessed. The City
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Hall does not have access off of West 78 Street so that is not proposed to be assessed. So I
know the library is assessed. I don’t know where my feasibility study went. So I can get you
those numbers. I’ll show you the spreadsheet.
Richard Kvanbeck: Okay. I’d appreciate that. I have no further questions at this time. Thank
you.
Mayor Furlong: And to clarify Mr. Oehme, in terms of establishing the assessment, the total
project cost, it’s the City’s practice to assess 40% of that cost with the City picking up the
remaining 60%.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Right? And that’s true across all these project areas.
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: In this particular area the 40% is then allocated among the property owners, as I
heard this, based upon the acreage or square footage of the properties.
Paul Oehme: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: The different properties.
Paul Oehme: I.e. if one particular property has more acreage, you know they’ll be proposed to
be assessed slightly more than the adjacent property that’s maybe a smaller.
Mayor Furlong: And I’m going to jump ahead because we’ll probably have questions in all the
other projects that we’re looking at here tonight, the two residential projects, those are on a per
lot basis.
Paul Oehme: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: It is not on an acreage basis on either of those two, is that correct?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct and for example on the Timberwood Drive neighborhood there’s 38
lots that are there. Everybody’s proposed to be assessed the same amount.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Others here.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Yes.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Councilman Laufenburger: Comment. While it’s accurate to say that 40% is assessed to the
benefiting party and the City picks up the other 60%. I think it’s important that we remember
that the City is the rest of the citizens of Chanhassen, correct?
Mayor Furlong: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So the 60% is not spread to people other than the 40%
benefiting. It’s the 60% is spread to everybody in the city of Chanhassen.
Mayor Furlong: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Those are the City public funds that are used.
Councilman Laufenburger: Right, okay. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, okay. Thank you. Others that would like to provide public comment
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on project area number 1. The urban commercial project, West 78. No one? Okay. Let’s
move on then to project area number 2. If that’s okay. Project area number 2. This is the Santa
Vera area and I guess given that there are differences in the assessment calculations here, as well
as perhaps the needs I’d like to start with anyone that lives on Santa Vera between Powers
Boulevard and Kerber Boulevard. That segment there. If you’d like to come up at this time. If
anybody is here that would like to comment on this project or ask questions, I invite you to come
forward at this time.
Mark Falzone: Good evening. My name’s Mark Falzone. I live on Santa Vera. Nicholas Way
actually which is right off Santa Vera in a townhouse development so I’m just questioning.
Mayor Furlong: Could you state your address just for the record.
Mark Falzone: 7633 Nicholas Way.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. And your question.
Mark Falzone: I live in a townhouse development there so I’m just curious how that gets
assessed. There’s the one I live in and there’s one across the street and then there’s that senior
living apartments complex.
Paul Oehme: They’re all assessed at the same rate for the townhomes and we looked at again the
cost for improvements just to Santa Vera Drive for that section between Powers Boulevard and
Kerber Boulevard and looked at how many units are in that area. Looked at the amount of 40%
of the assessable amount to the benefiting property owners and divided it amongst the properties
there, since there is access off of Santa Vera. The apartment complex was assessed a little bit
differently. They do have two accesses off of Kerber Boulevard and one off of Santa Vera so
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we’re proposing to assess the apartment complex about half the units that are there. There’s 65
units so 32 units basically. 32 ½ units for the project cost so.
Todd Gerhardt: And the other 32 probably would be assessed at the time that Kerber would see
a mill or total reconstruction?
Paul Oehme: Yeah once, if and when Kerber Boulevard is proposed to be improved we would
look at potentially assessments to that property owner at that time for those improvements.
Mark Falzone: Now that street gets re-done every, it’s been done these past few years where
they’ve oiled. Put oil down and crushed stone. It seems like that’s taken care of it as long as
I’ve lived there which is 16 years now.
Paul Oehme: Yeah I think the last time a sealcoat was done on Santa Vera was 8 years ago. 9
years ago.
Mark Falzone: Yeah.
Paul Oehme: Yeah. So I know we’ve been out there patching that section of roadway,
especially at Kerber Boulevard at the intersection there. We’ve had you know a lot of ice
damming problems there. Heaving of the roadway so we’ve been trying to address that on a you
know minor maintenance basis but with limited success.
Mark Falzone: Sealcoating. Is that the crushed gravel or is that?
Paul Oehme: Right, yep.
Mark Falzone: That was done 8 years ago?
Paul Oehme: I believe it has been.
Mark Falzone: I thought it was just done last year.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, not on Santa Vera.
Mark Falzone: Okay. I guess I would say that I don’t think that section of the street needs to be
redone.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Mark Falzone: That’s all I have.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, nope. I appreciate that. Thank you. Anyone else that would like to
comment on, that lives on or would like to comment on the project area related to Santa Vera
between Powers Boulevard and Kerber Boulevard? Okay, thank you. Mr. Oehme, did we get
any email replies or other phone calls on this area?
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Paul Oehme: Not that I’m aware of.
Mayor Furlong: And I assume all the property owners received notice.
Paul Oehme: Yep. Yep. Everybody was invited to the December meeting so, and there’s at
least been 2 or 3 notices that have gone out for all the properties.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Let’s move now then to the east side of Kerber Boulevard.
We’ll start with Santa Vera Drive. Any property owners along Santa Vera Drive east of Kerber
Boulevard that would like to comment this evening? How about along the Chippewa Trail,
Chippewa Circle? Property owners along there. Saratoga. Saratoga Drive or Saratoga Circle.
Anyone like to comment there? Mr. Oehme, did we receive any other comments at the open
houses with regard to, or any concerns about doing this project in this area?
Paul Oehme: Well there was, as I recall about 5 or 6 people that attended the December meeting
that I’ve talked to. You know I think the biggest concern that I’ve received is the assessment
amount and the terms of the assessments so it was in general those are the questions or the
concerns that I have had addressed to me. I think especially on Santa Vera Drive and Saratoga
Drive I think the property owners that I’ve talked to, they’ve realized that something should be
done up in that area because the streets are getting to a level there that something should be
addressed. And then based upon, I’m sorry Mayor. Based upon the residential comments that
we had at the neighborhood meeting we did add additional drain tile at the end of Saratoga Drive
based upon some comments that we received and on site verification by our staff. That drain tile
should be needed. There’s some sump pump discharges that are ending up in the road that we
want to try to capture and discharge into the storm sewer system.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, good. Thank you. Anyone else in any of this property area, project
number 2 that would like to provide comment? Yes sir. If you’d like to come up to the
microphone and state your name and address.
Tim Haunty: My name is Tim Haunty. I live at 7470 Saratoga Drive. I just got a, wanted a
couple things I guess. As far as accessibility during that project. In and out, or I mean are they
able to give us notice as to what they’re doing and when we can and cannot drive through and
notify where parking and.
Paul Oehme: Yeah we’ll have an on site resident engineer, inspector on site at all times.
There’ll be notifications to the property owners of what the contractor’s doing now and into the
future, weeks ahead of time. And then also letting residents know what’s going to be transpiring
in the near future but in terms of access to your driveway you know your question there is 95%
of the time you will have access to your driveway and be able to get to your house. There’s
times where if they’re, if we have some curb that needs to be replaced, maybe in front of your
driveway, we prefer that you not drive on that for maybe 3 days and we’ll give you some other
locations to park at that time but we’re not looking at replacing all the curb in this neighborhood
so it’s just going to be sporadic. I don’t know exactly, you know there’s just different sections
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that we’ll be removing so and we’ll definitely let the property owners know when that’s taking
place and coordinate that as best we can with the contractor.
Tim Haunty: Okay. Now can you briefly explain that drain tile and what it’s purpose is for the
sump pump discharges and did I understand that that is immediately behind the curb? Is that it’s
intent and is that just going to be on the cul-de-sac or is it intent to go all the way?
Paul Oehme: No there’s, as I recall there’s a storm sewer pipe that’s up in this area right here
and the idea is to connect some drain tile along this section of Saratoga Drive and then in the cul-
de-sac here to try to force it back into that, into that storm sewer system.
Tim Haunty: Then are the homeowners able to connect directly to that? Is that the intent?
Paul Oehme: That’s the intent but not connect directly to the tile. There’ll be a rock bed I would
say around that tile and then what we like to do is have the property owners soft connect I would
say. Just dump the water, discharge the water into that rock bed.
Tim Haunty: So surface discharge.
Paul Oehme: Not surface. It would be underground but we don’t like hard connects because of
the freezes and then there’s the potential for backing up so as long as it drains into that rock bed,
that’s probably the ideal situation so yeah like you said, we’d like to try to get that water off the
road as much as we can and we’d like to coordinate with the property owners out there to direct
discharge into that drain tile.
Tim Haunty: Okay. And then my last question is, I have an irrigation system at my house and
so when you say to put this drain tile, I mean from behind the curb how far in and you know, just
get your thoughts.
Paul Oehme: Yeah it’s typically what we like to see is the drain tile maybe, depending on the
grades, about 2 ½ feet down below the surface and approximately 2 feet in back of the curb so if
you have irrigation system on your property, we’ll have to work with you on temporarily
removing those irrigation systems and putting it back to it’s original condition so we’ll work
with you on that. That won’t be an additional cost to the property owner for that.
Tim Haunty: It is or it is not?
Paul Oehme: It is not.
Tim Haunty: Okay.
Paul Oehme: We’ll work something out with you there.
Tim Haunty: Alright. That’s all I have. Thank you.
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Mayor Furlong: Any concern, sir before you leave. Any concerns about the need for the project
or?
Tim Haunty: No.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Tim Haunty: Thanks.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else in the Santa Vera/Saratoga neighborhood, project 2.
Alright, very good. Let’s move on then to the next project. This is the rural residential, the
Timberwood Drive. We did receive here a petition so if somebody would like to present the
petition I’d certainly invite up a representative to do that. We’ll certainly have anybody, let’s
start with that and then we’ll make sure that as we go through and have the different streets,
we’ll be in a position to hear everyone’s concerns. Thank you. Good evening sir.
Tom Elmer: Good evening. I’m Tom Elmer. I live at 2040 Oakwood Drive. Or Oakwood
Ridge, I’m sorry, and that is part of Timberwood Estates. We appreciate the opportunity to meet
with all of you this evening and share the insight and feedback from the people that are most
impacted by this project. To be clear I’m not aware of any ground swell concern over the need
for the project or the cost of the project but I have been asked to present our concerns regarding
the connection of Timberwood Drive and Stone Creek Court. Various messages and emails have
been sent to the council. I won’t you know go through those. I think our message is simple with
respect to the connection of these two streets. Currently we believe that the configuration of
Timberwood Drive and Stone Creek isn’t broken so we request that the City not spend, or
expend any effort or tax dollars on what we believe is essentially to a solution in search of a
problem. Staff has done a great job of summarizing our concerns so I won’t go into great detail
on that but to summarize that really the three issues that we’ve raised is that the through traffic
will create significant safety issues for pedestrians and vehicles and by turning Timberwood
Drive into a through street it will take away a, what we believe is a deterrent to crime currently.
We’ve talked about that we don’t want to spoil a pedestrian friendly, rural setting which we
believe is special and unique to Chanhassen and once we let the genie out of the bottle, I’m not
th
sure we can get it back. And what one issue was raised at the January 12 meeting that was not
raised here is that staff thinks or believes that there will be obviously the need to change the
addresses of the people currently living on Stone Creek Court and potentially even changing
their house numbers which is certainly an inconvenience, a cost and something that we don’t
think is worth the benefits that have been laid out. We certainly understand the staff’s
recommendations based on the Comprehensive Plan and the code but we believe that in addition
to the negatives that we’ve outlined in this situation, you know these documents don’t represent
or protect the best interest of the residents nor do they make Chanhassen a better place in this
situation. The Comprehensive Plan specific to this area talked about that a connection between
Timberwood Estates and Stone Creek would permit the residents of Timberwood Estates to
access to the Bluff Creek trail system. Since we can neither drive to or on the trail system, we’re
at a loss why connecting a road would make that a better thing for us to connect to. It also talks
about a connection would provide secondary access to Timberwood Estates for residents and
emergency vehicles. As Councilman McDonald pointed out, I think there are ways to solve the
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
emergency access system and situation without destroying what we have and creating a more
dangerous situation. We talked about the City Code and our understanding is that the maximum
length on cul-de-sacs have some basis in terms of emergency vehicles. We’ve talked about that.
It also we understand has to do with not dead ending utilities on a long cul-de-sac. We certainly
don’t have utilities on Timberwood Drive and also to the extent that utilities would need to be
brought through, it could be connected to Stone Creek without too much effort or concern. I also
happen to coincidently look at Code Section 18-57 and I guess the question that I would have is,
while subsection (k) talks about the maximum length of streets terminating in cul-de-sacs,
subsection (j) of that same code talks about subdivision streets and it says that the alignment
shall discourage through traffic so it seems like what we’re trying to do here by putting through
traffic onto Timberwood Drive seems to be a little bit inconsistent with the code itself. So we’ve
talked about that this same body discussed this issue when Stone Creek was, a subdivision was
brought forward and the decision was made not to connect the two streets. We don’t see that any
situation has changed since that decision and we support it. We have and we are presenting the
petition. We have 41 signatures from Timberwood Estates and Stone Creek that was presented.
We also have a large contingent of people here from both neighborhoods and I understand that a
representative from Stone Creek will speak as well as to that neighborhood’s concern and
opposition to the connection so, unless you have any other questions that’s our summary.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, very good. Thank you.
Steve Emerson: Good evening Mayor and City Council.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
Steve Emerson: My name’s Steve Emerson. I’m a resident representing Stone Creek
Association or Stone Creek neighborhood and at least the most impacted. I live at 8409 Stone
Creek. I’m an original homeowner so I purchased the property that is directly direct to that, or
adjacent to that where the connection would go in. Also have a petition that I’ll hand over to
Paul. Has the four signatures of the people that are impacted. And I think you know the meeting
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on the 12 I think captured most of the concerns that we had accurate. There’s a couple
additional details here that I wanted to read through so you make sure you get those. First one,
and there’s 5 here. I’ll just cover a couple of them relate to public safety part of it. That trail that
Paul talked about actually dead ends right into the street so it’s a T and there is, so in all the years
we’ve been there there’s kids that use that trail system frequently and they come barreling down
that path. They don’t stop. You know they’re kids so they just are you know using the trail
system the way they want to use it so there’s a major concern about what would happen if you
have traffic going through there so that’s kind of a major one for us. I’m not sure that connecting
the neighbors together also brings a feeling of neighborhood that’s not already present so I think
one of the goals you have of you know making neighborhoods more friendly is not going to be
enhanced by that particular one. Another homeowner on the Stone Creek side talked to a couple
realtors and then by some estimates you know as a cul-de-sac our property has a better value
because of the lack of traffic and it’s estimated that about 10% of our property value would be
lost so, and in this day and age I don’t think anybody’s looking to have their property values
decrease any further. And then I think we already talked about the crime rates being impacted if
you have accessibility so all in all I think we’re against the connection being made. And I just
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would add too that there’s a homeowners association I think that you’re probably aware of and
they voted last night to support our position which is not to have that connection made so I think
you’ve heard from both Stone Creek side and from Timberwood side that no one’s in favor of
this, and I went back through the lengthy record in 1992. You guys spent a lot of time and
people that were on the council spent a lot of time going through that and a lot of discussion,
they similar comments were made at the time as they’re being raised now and some of the
concerns that were brought then have not come to fruition so some of the emergency vehicle
access, none of that has you know been determined to be a need so I think you know those
concerns can be through history sort of laid to rest so I don’t see any reason to proceed with that
connection. Maybe one last comment. I appreciate Mr. McDonald’s comments about some
alternate means to improve that area. I think there is right now some red, you know the nice
aesthetically pleasing red cross hatch signs which I’ve had to live with for that long time and you
know if there’s some other alternate plans that could be put in place that would allow emergency
access, which I can see is a good reason to want to improve the situation. But these so called
breakdown barriers I think to me is, and I’m speaking for myself, is a adequate, is a good
solution. We preserve the integrity of the neighborhoods and just something you should
consider. So that’s all.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. If I may ask a couple questions that have come up. First of all the
comments Ms. Aanenson about the code. Talking about through traffic was raised by the
previous gentleman. What’s the purpose for, we’re not trying to eliminate traffic?
Kate Aanenson: No, we always try to connect neighborhoods and you know that’s for the school
buses. For you know, for ease of traffic. I guess I’d have to go back and look at that in context
of how that was written so.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. I think when they say cut through traffic that would be any
traffic that isn’t neighborhood associated so if you had a, you know a street where it would be a
short cut to get to the high school or you know where people might use it as a short cut.
Mayor Furlong: So speaking very hypothetically. If there weren’t railroad tracks between Stone
Creek and the high school and the parking lot there, it would be a situation where somebody
rather than going, staying on Galpin would cut through to get there. Someone who doesn’t live
in either one of the two neighborhoods.
Todd Gerhardt: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Paul Oehme: And Mayor too, just a point. You know cut through traffic, you know it comes
back to the design of those roads too and how everything can be laid out to discourage those type
of activities from happening so.
Mayor Furlong: And cut through traffic is in the eye of the beholder usually.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, that’s true too.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Mayor Furlong: But the key here is the, is it’s people getting off the main artery where we want
the traffic to stay. Not to prevent traffic within a neighborhood. That’s not.
Kate Aanenson: Can I just add to that too? I think everybody’s kind of alluding to it but we
have a hierarchy of streets. We have minor collectors. Major collectors so even within a
subdivision you might have one that acts as a more of the collector street, which is the one that
typically as a sidewalk in each neighborhood. That might be the one that everybody filters off
the cul-de-sacs to get to so that one is going to bear more traffic because that’s the one
everybody has to get onto to get onto the next collector to get onto the state highway or the other
county roads so they do function differently. But we always try to connect those internally, but
not like as you say to force somebody to go down into a residential neighborhood that may not
need to provide an alternative.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. I’m sorry.
Councilman Laufenburger: Just a question. Mr. Oehme, looking at Stone Creek Court, I’m not
an engineer but it appears that that was not built as a cul-de-sac.
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: What was it built as?
Paul Oehme: It was, Stone Creek was built as a through road just like the typical section for the
rest of the development there in the anticipation that that road would someday be connected to
the north.
Councilman Laufenburger: So when that decision was made, when that development was made
by the developer of the Stone Creek neighborhood, they built it as, not as a cul-de-sac with a
circular movement but it’s built as a, as the beginning of a road?
Paul Oehme: Exactly. Yeah in, typically on those end roads you wanted someplace for vehicles
to turn around so they’re not driving in somebody’s driveway so obviously that, it’s not here so
that’s the intent of not putting a cul-de-sac there is for eventual connection.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Others that would like to provide public comment on project area 3. I
would ask if there’s anybody here interested in that project that does not believe that the
improvement should be done, not the scope of the project but with regard to the connection. But
the condition of the pavement. If there’s anybody there we’d certainly appreciate hearing from
you as well. Or concerns about the assessment. Okay. Very good. Anybody else that would
like to comment on this? Sir.
Jerry Murkowski: If council would.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Mayor Furlong: If you could state your name and address.
Jerry Murkowski: Oh I’m Jerry Murkowski and I’m at 2051 Renaissance Court so I’m right at
the end of that cul-de-sac so if someone, either the councilmen or Mr. Mayor if you could tell us
what the next steps are going to be for council to make their recommendation on whether that
street is going to go through, that would be very helpful and I’ll sit down and let someone
respond.
Mayor Furlong: Okay certainly. Maybe we can talk a little bit about the process here. The
purpose of tonight is obviously to take public comment with regard to the need and the proposed
assessment. Do you have a schedule as well? I think it was in your presentation.
Paul Oehme: So if we move forward tonight and basically authorize us to, the motion would be
to authorize preparation of plans and specs so we can get the final details down. Get the
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quantities done. Get the specifications written and then we anticipate by February 28 to have
those plans ready for authorization and advertisement to let the contractors know that the
project’s out there to be bid upon so.
Mayor Furlong: And I guess to answer the question as well, it would be my expectation tonight
that the council will determine the scope of each of these projects as well as whether the project
will move forward and at least on a preliminary basis if the assessments make sense. So that
would be the, if that helps clarify what we’re doing here tonight is giving staff direction on how
we want these projects, if we want them to go forward. How and then we’d move forward with
the projects. Does that answer your question?
Jerry Murkowski: Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Sure. Thank you. Anyone else that would like to provide comment on the third
project area number 3? If not, let’s go to project area number 4. Trail improvements. Anyone
that would like to provide comment with regard to the trail improvements? This is on the east
side of Stone Creek. No? Next area, anybody that would like to provide comments on the City
Hall parking lot improvements that are being proposed? Okay, very good. With that, is there
anybody else that would like to address the council on any of these matters before we close the
public hearing? If not, is there a motion to close the public hearing?
Mitch Krause: Yeah…just to be clear.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, if you could come forward. Name and address please.
Mitch Krause: Mitch Krause, 2380 Timberwood Drive in Chanhassen. You’ve called for each
of these projects individually. There’s been one or two people that have spoken for all of them.
I think I’d some way for you to recognize that I think every single person back here and
everybody over here is opposed to this project and we’ve you know been mindful of your time
and haven’t had everybody stand up and spend 5 minutes speaking but perhaps, but you know if
you want to ask everybody to oppose stand up or something like that or just say yea, I think
you’ll see the overwhelming opposition of this project.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Mayor Furlong: And that’s fine. If you’d like to see, I’d be happy to see a show of hands of
people who are here tonight that signed the petition opposing the, if you’d like to raise your hand
as far as a visual presentation. Okay. Thank you sir. Thank you. And then.
Councilwoman Ernst: Can we get clarification on that Mayor? Is that for just the connection
or?
Mayor Furlong: Well the question from Councilwoman Ernst was that just for the connection.
The petition that we received that the City Council not, to vote not to connect Timberwood Drive
and Stone Creek Court so that’s what I’m assuming is the singular focus of this petition. I’m
seeing a lot of heads go up and down so I’ll take that as.
Councilwoman Ernst: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: And it does not have to do with the need. I heard the gentleman, Mr. Elmer say
that they were not opposing the need or the assessment policy, is what I heard as well. Mr.
Elmer, thank you. Does that clarify?
Councilwoman Ernst: Yes, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. And if there’s no one else is there a motion to close the public
hearing?
Councilwoman Ernst: So moved.
Mayor Furlong: Is there a second?
Councilman McDonald: I’ll second.
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman McDonald seconded to close the public hearing.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The public
hearing was closed.
Mayor Furlong: Great. Let’s bring it back to council for follow-up questions. Any other
questions for staff?
Councilman Laufenburger: I do have a question Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: I raise this question to Mr. Oehme earlier but I think it would be
important to raise it at this time. I share a little bit of Mr. Emerson’s concern regarding the
renaming and renumbering of the Stone Creek Court so who has jurisdiction over for example if
Timberwood Drive to Stone Creek Court were connected. Who has jurisdiction over what those
houses are called? Can you speak to that?
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Paul Oehme: Well it’s always at the staff level, or city staff that assigns addresses to properties
so the property numbers so we’d have to work with the property owners if it, if it’s worth our
while to change those streets, or those properties, those numbers to Timberwood Drive.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Is it possible that even if the connection were made, and I’m
not asking this because I know the answer to the question but is it possible that even if that
connection were made, that those 4 homes that are currently addressed Stone Creek Court, could
they stay Stone Creek Court?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, I talked to the staff member that assigns addresses to these type of issues
and he told me that the two on Stone Creek Drive, those two potentially would not have to
change. The next two north of there would have to change to Timberwood Drive. So the ones at
the intersection potentially would not have to change. The other two he would recommend
changing those two.
Councilman Laufenburger: So the two that would be closest to the barrier is the ones that.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, those would be the ones that would really have to change. The other ones
he could probably live with.
Councilman Laufenburger: Excuse me for clarification. That was a recommendation.
Paul Oehme: That was a recommendation.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: So we would not have to.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Mayor Furlong: We would not have to change.
Paul Oehme: We would not have to change it but that.
Mayor Furlong: That would be a recommendation.
Paul Oehme: That would be our recommendation, I’m sorry.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, it would be my understanding that we as council could tell you
don’t change it.
Paul Oehme: Right, absolutely.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Councilman McDonald: And there are streets within the city that do butt up to one another and
on one side it’s called one thing and on another side it’s called something else so this is not
something we haven’t handled before.
Mayor Furlong: It’s not ideal but it’s possible I guess is the, would be what I’m hearing.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. I think you said this before but you would have to put in a
culvert for flowage underneath that, what now exists as the barrier section.
Paul Oehme: Yeah.
Councilman Laufenburger: You would have to put a culvert in.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, we haven’t completed our final design on that yet but I got a drawing here
too. So this is theoretically if that road connection were to be made, it looks like there’d be a
need for a culvert of some sort to have water flowage I think from the west to the east. I think
that’s the correct of the water so instead of you know having a barricade there with a road, we’d
have to have somewhere, way to transition that water back and forth.
Councilman Laufenburger: Is there any other culvert or any other flowage that, on Timberwood
Drive as far as you know?
Paul Oehme: Well Timberwood Drive is a rural section so it’s mainly ditch section through
there so there is culverts underneath each, most every driveway there adjacent to the road so
there is you know water flows on each side of the road, off the road basically down to this area.
Councilman Laufenburger: But that’s for water runoff as opposed to creeks or anything like that,
is that correct?
Paul Oehme: Yeah.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. That’s my questions right now.
Mayor Furlong: The issue of safety has come up and I guess Mr. Gerhardt or even Sergeant
Anderley, have there been any issues of safety or concerns over the last 20 years with regard to
having only one access to this neighborhood? To the Timber.
Todd Gerhardt: Not that I’m aware.
Sgt. Peter Anderley: I believe there was one house fire. Go back a few years ago that did
temporarily close, it was on you know closer to Galpin. That that did close down access to those
homes. I guess I don’t have a timeframe at this one. It was probably a couple hours at that point.
You know it would have hampered residents that lived farther down there to get through because
you know fire trucks, fire hoses, emergency vehicles, that type of thing. You know there would
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not been a way of getting more emergency personnel in there farther during that event… And
that’s the only one I’m aware of was one house fire approximately maybe 3 years ago now.
Mayor Furlong: What is the, okay. Thank you. With regard to the utilities. Looping utilities is
always the one thing that we do from a service standpoint. There are no utilities in the
Timberwood neighborhood right now. If there was a decision in the future for utility services to
be put into the neighborhood, which would I assume come from a petition of the residents, is that
typically the way?
Paul Oehme: Typically that’s how it starts.
Mayor Furlong: We’re want to loop those, wouldn’t we?
Paul Oehme: Absolutely. The watermain you loop. The sewer, it’s just gravity.
Mayor Furlong: It goes downhill.
Paul Oehme: Wherever you can go with it.
Mayor Furlong: Yep, it goes downhill. Okay. So that, at that point in time if something like
that happened that would certainly, we’d be looking at looping utilities, the water mains and that,
may at that point justify more of a connection from a road standpoint, just from the normal
process.
Paul Oehme: For maintenance standpoint there might be some justification.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then help me understand what Mr. McDonald and Mr.
Laufenburger were talking about in terms of improving a secondary break away safety access at
this point. Would that, while some grading not connecting the roads but grading with a break
away barricade or what are we talking about there? Is it something that we’ve done before or
what would be the?
Paul Oehme: I’m not aware of any break away barricades that we have in the city. You
typically put up those Type 4 barricades that are out here.
Mayor Furlong: To keep cars from getting through.
Paul Oehme: To keep you know, they’re reflective. They’re easy to see and they might be
unsightly but they seem to work. MnDOT recommends them so. Those are the type of
barricades that we used, to Mr. McDonald’s point, there might be some other type of break away
posts that we could utilize that can easily be you know taken down on an emergency basis only.
My concern there is you know vandalism or tampering with those type of equipment so I
definitely can research some of that if council would like us to. Staff could research that but to
my knowledge I don’t think we have another barricade like that in the city.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Any other questions? Mr. McDonald.
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Councilman McDonald: Yeah, I’ve got a question. What’s the turning radius of that cul-de-sac?
Is it built for a fire engine?
Mayor Furlong: Which one? The Timberwood?
Councilman McDonald: Yeah, the existing cul-de-sac that’s there.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, my understanding and I think it is a 45 foot diameter radius cul-de-sac so I
think it would be sufficient for our bigger trucks there, and again this is a rural section roadway
so it’s, there’s plenty of room to turn around in this area if need be so.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. So if we did the connection, the cul-de-sac wouldn’t necessarily
have to go then would it? Especially if we put a barrier out there, you’d still want the cul-de-sac.
Paul Oehme: You’d definitely still want the cul-de-sac.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. I have no further questions.
Mayor Furlong: I’m sorry, if you did the connection you’d want the cul-de-sac?
Councilman McDonald: You still want the cul-de-sac, yes.
Paul Oehme: To make Mr. McDonald’s point, I think what he’s alluding to, if you put up the
emergency barricades, the break away ones so something a little bit more flexible, you’d still
want on a normal basis to have that cul-de-sac operation.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions at this point? Let’s go to council
comments then and we’ll see where we’re going and let’s make sure we address, if there are any
concerns with each of the various projects so then we know where we are. Councilman
McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: You want to start down at this end?
Mayor Furlong: Sure. Let’s start there.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, if we look at project number 1, which is basically the City
portion, I guess I don’t see any real concerns there. It needs to be done. It looks as though it’s
pretty straight forward so I really don’t have any comments or concerns about that particular
project. Project number 2. We just did Laredo Drive a couple years ago and I know that we
talked about all this then and that all these roads at one point, the drainage which was brought up,
that’s been a problem and we cured that with Laredo and as far as I know we have taken care
most of the water flow there but we didn’t do anything in the older section that we’re now
looking at so this kind of completes the solution there where we had water problems within
homes and drainage and all of those things. Again on any of these I am sensitive to the fact that
homeowners are going to have to pay 40%. There was a couple of emails again from people
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with fixed incomes that had called in and asked that we not do this. These are always tough
decisions but we do owe a responsibility to the residents I think to address problems. Water
drainage. Roads that you know suddenly become not as passable as what they would want. You
know we have wrestled with this on council. We’ve put together policies to address these issues
and I think that as a council we’ve probably done as much as we possibly can to deflect the cost
of these improvements but I’m afraid it’s just, it’s something that comes along with owning
property. We have to keep up the city streets and we have to make sure that you know water and
drainage is taken care of so I’m in favor of going forward with this one because I know it’s going
to cure some problems. Hopefully staff can work with certain individuals. As a matter of fact
one of them that called in may qualify under the State statute because of where their income in so
it would not even be that big of an impact upon them and I guess I would encourage staff to
make sure you work with them from that vein and everything to see if they do qualify so that we
can alleviate some of their problems. Getting onto the tougher one which is project area number
3. I’m very I guess sympathetic to everyone’s position on all of this. What I’m trying to weigh
is that we have tried to make it a policy within the city to make sure that neighborhoods are
connected for safety reasons. Again to encourage neighborhoods to mix and not put up barriers.
I understand we’re dealing with some different dynamics here. The only over riding thing that I
guess I’m in favor of at this point is, I do want to see the road connected for the purposes of
again emergency vehicles so to that end you know I guess what I’ll propose is we do the
connection but it not be open to anything except emergency vehicles because if a fire happens
down at the south end of Timberwood Drive, yeah the homeowner down there may be very
thankful that we put that in because emergency services can arrive that much quicker. If you
have a heart attack or something, again time is of the essence so I think we do need to be aware
of the emergency situations. And just because it hasn’t happened in the last 20 years doesn’t
mean it won’t happen this summer. I mean these are random events that happen and when they
happen you know you’re hoping that you’ve got stuff in place so I think staff can solve the
problem as far as the break away barriers even though we don’t have any in the city. These
things are used. There are other places around the country. I’m sure that there’s vendors out
there that put these things together so that at least emergency vehicles are able to get in and out.
So while I’m in favor of the connection, you know I’m not in favor of the connection for the
public so I would not support that. The rest of the project as far as taking care of the roadway, I
think that well yeah it’s over 20 something years old. It’s showing it’s wear. I really didn’t hear
anything today that anyone’s opposed to us fixing the road so I’m not sure that that’s an issue
that is really up here so I would support fixing the road. The fourth one which is improving the
parking lot.
Councilman Laufenburger: Number 4 was trails.
Councilman McDonald: Number 4 is trails. Well at this point yeah, we’ve always tried to
improve trails so I don’t see any opposition to doing that and again we’ve got a policy within the
city where we are trying to inner connect all the trails. This is just another piece of doing that so
yes, that one should go forward. Then it’s number 5 which is the parking lot. I tend to agree
with the mayor’s observation that yeah we’re probably paying a lot for 12 slots but I know what
it’s like out there, especially in the summertime and it’s not just on a particular day but the senior
center does put a large demand on that parking lot because they do utilize the senior center so,
and again we probably didn’t lay that out the best that we could have to utilize the space for
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parking so yeah, I’m glad to see that we’re going to go back and look at that. We’ll pick up 12
slots. The other benefactor to that is definitely the library. I’ve tried to get into the parking
garage for the library and that’s another facility that’s being utilized by the residents. You can’t
always get in there and on certain days I’ve seen people parked all the way around the circle
trying to get out on Kerber so anything we can do to alleviate those kind of parking problems,
then it’s worth it so I think that’s a project that should also go forward and I think that’s pretty
much it.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: First of all I want to thank staff and say congratulations on probably
a lot of successful neighborhood meetings because we certainly tonight, except for project
number 3, the people seem to understand the need for their streets being fixed and are willing to
work with city and staff to make sure that gets done so thank you for that. And I have no
problems with those projects, except for project 3 and that’s kind of where, I know what staff’s
and the City’s policy to connect neighborhoods and I agree with it. I think if this was a new
development coming in, then I would say absolutely. This is something we should do because it
stays consistent with what we do in the city. Unfortunately though people in Timberwood, you
invested in a lifestyle there. You know it’s a unique neighborhood and it’s been successful for a
long time and when I have residents emailing me and I see the petitions and I see a room full, I
have to respect you and I have to respect that you know what’s best for you and your
neighborhood. Because of that I can’t support a connection. I understand that you know people
are talking about safety concerns and I understand that but then again I think the only people that
probably really use Timberwood, the road are the neighbors so you all know who’s coming and
going and you kind of have an eye for what’s going on in your neighborhood so opening it up to
another 144 houses, I’m not sure that’s beneficial for you safety wise. And I just feel that you
know the council minutes from 1992, the council was very clear that they wanted this to be a
closed neighborhood and so for me it’s hard now to come back and say I’m sorry. You all
bought into this and you enjoy it but now I’m going to say that I know better and we’re going to
open it up so I respectfully have to say that I’m not in favor of joining the two neighborhoods.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Well I want to thank all the residents for coming in. I really appreciate
the fact that you are willing to participate. Voice your opinion and really had a representative
speaking for all of you and even though we like to hear all of your concerns, we did get a lot of
emails and I do thank you for having respect for our time tonight because we could have been
here until 11:30 tonight if all of you would have got up and spoke so thank you and also thank
you to staff for holding the neighborhood meetings. It sounded like you had a good participation
there. Project number 1 and 2 I have no concerns. Actually I have no concerns at all really with
1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. I’m sorry, 1, 2, 4, and 5. On project number 3, you know I ask myself what is
the logical and reasonable thing to do for this city and for the residents for today and the future,
and I liked what you had to say. It just sticks in my mind. Are we creating solutions in search of
a problem you know potentially? So to address the emergency access situation I really, I would
like to see staff do some research to find out what you can find for us in solutions for comparable
break away’s. I’m not going to say that we have to go with the break away’s but something very
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comparable. And I also know that we’re going to be reviewing our ordinances. That’s one of
our strategic goals and maybe this is one we need to take a look at. So I’m suggesting that we
not go forth with the connection but of course supporting 1, 2, 4 and 5.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. As the other council members have
mentioned it’s very pleasing to be on this side of the desk and see the ground swell of support for
this project amongst the community. I think that speaks, that in itself speaks to the character of
the community. I also want to say that, to those I think it’s about 15 people that wrote emails,
you are, expressed yourself in a very articulate way and it caused me to think and re-think this
project a number of ways, and I would say that there are some things that I agree with you on
and some that I don’t agree and I’m going to try to speak to that if I can. To Mr. Elmer and Mr.
Emerson and Mr. Murkowski, I know the energy it takes to stand up in front of the City Council
and speak so to those of you that did, thank you very much. One overall impact I do want to
speak to and that is, Mr. Mayor I think it’s important that we recognize that the assessment
practice that we follow, which is 40% for the benefitting, generally for the 40% for those that are
benefitted and 60% city wide, I think that’s a policy that has been in place and anything we do to
interrupt that would shift the balance away from fair distribution of those costs across the city so
whenever that took place, that essentially put the anchor in place that we’ve got to continue to do
that. I know some cities do 100% city paid for, etc so that assessment practice I think is
important that we continue with that. 1, 2, 4 and 5 I would agree with Councilwoman Ernst and
the rest that those are good and we should follow through on those but number 3 I would like to
address. It’s hard not to listen to the impact of emotion and the strength of the conviction that
the people in Timberwood have, but these are the key issues for me. Number one is the policy.
Yes, I do agree with the policy that when it’s possible and feasible and in the interest of the
entire community that we should follow the policy so I would support that policy as long as it’s
possible and feasible. The other thing that was mentioned was crimes and crime relates to, I’m
speaking specifically of crimes. Not of traffic crimes but crimes to the community. I talked to
the Carver County Sheriff and we talked about crimes in a community like this and he said,
crimes of opportunity aren’t determined by cul-de-sacs or through streets. A case could be made
for safety on, in a single exit neighborhood like Timberwood is, but also safety is present when a
criminal were to fear that traffic or activity that might catch them so the suggestion is, a secluded
area might be more prone to crime than a heavily traveled area, if you follow me. Ultimately the
best deterrent to crime is exemplified by what we have here tonight which is neighbors watching
out for neighbors. Open garage doors. People on vacation. Tell your neighbor, etc. And in that
conversation with the sheriff I was reminded by the most recent home invasion crime in
Chanhassen that is yet to be solved in southeast Chanhassen occurred on a cul-de-sac at the end
of a dead end street. Hardship is another issue for me Mr. Mayor. As I see it really the hardship
is for those people on Stone Creek Court and I would support this connection only if it were a
way for us to eliminate that hardship, and you’ve already mentioned that could happen. And if,
at the minimum if we did change the streets and the numbers, then there should be some
reimbursement to those people for whatever costs. You know the cost of re-etching the stone.
Re-naming their home mailbox, etc. Next issue for me was the traffic. I think the, I believe that
what I’m seeing is a fear of what is unknown. It seems to me that if we were to believe the
expectations that were discussed from some that Timberwood is going to be, turn into a local
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drag strip and I don’t think that’s going to be the case. I do concur with the traffic engineer that
the opening of the barrier on Timberwood would change the traffic pattern but I’m not in
agreement of his analysis. The suggestion would be that, if I can remember correctly. Mr.
Oehme, you can correct me if you want. The analysis was 100 less exits on Galpin and 140
more exits on, excuse me. 100 less exits on Timberwood and 140 more on Galpin and I just, I
don’t buy that. I think the analysis clearly told us that the amount of traffic on Timberwood
would certainly be below acceptable standards. Below the 1,000 per day so, but so I thought
what would impact that. I live in a community where I have two exits from my neighborhood
and I make a decision when I pull out of the driveway, am I going to go this way or that way and
I make that decision not based on how bucolic the neighborhood is that I’m going to drive
through. I make that decision based on the shortest amount of time to get to my destination and
I’m glad that I have two options because if I’m heading into downtown I go one way and if I’m
headed to the west, towards Lyman, towards the high school or towards 41 and 5, I’ll go the
other way but I make that decision in an instant and I make that decision based on shortness of
the length of time and also the, perhaps the speed limit that I can travel. So I believe the same
decision process will occur with the residents not only in the Stone Creek neighborhood, but also
those residents on Timberwood and I did some analysis and I do concur with the engineer in one
area. He said there’s about 20 homes on Stone Creek that might use Timberwood to access
Galpin going north. And they would do so if they considered also that Timberwood is a 30 miles
per hour street as opposed to Galpin which is a 45 miles per hour street. Galpin has much better
sight lines. They can get around, you know speed up if they want to go up the hill from
Timberwood up towards Coulter. So yes, there are about 20 houses that would want to go into
Timberwood but there are also about 17 property owners from Acorn Lane and Maplewood
Terrace south on Timberwood Court that would have a much better decision to make if they
were going south on Galpin and the engineer says 55% of the people coming out of Timberwood
would go south on Galpin. They’d have a much better route if they chose to go down south
through Stone Creek Court and then out Galpin. That would be approximately .45 miles from
the barrier to Galpin versus 1.21 miles going the other way. I’m not suggesting that that’s what
they would do but I am suggesting that that’s the options that they would have available to them.
So for me the net is this. With an option they can choose to either go a shorter route or they can
choose to take a longer route if they want to. Last issue is public safety. I don’t think there’s
any question the two exits or entrances is better for public safety. For fire and emergency. For
school buses. For delivery vehicles. For garbage, etc. This is, I believe this is a strong
consideration. And lastly, oh by the way, there was a number of comments about home values. I
think it was Mr. Emerson that raised that issue. I did check with a real estate professional who’s
been in the business for more than 30 years and there are many factors that would suggest that a
cul-de-sac home is valued greater than a through street. The research I had suggested less than
10% but I acknowledge that there is that case. Lastly the character and this seems to be the issue
that most of the residents talk about. I don’t think character is defined by a barrier. I think
character is defined by people. It’s defined by lawns. By homes. By upkeep. By trees. By
views within the neighborhood. By the feel of the neighborhood and it’s also determined by the
neighborhood activities such as neighborhood night out, etc. The camaraderie of the people and
the neighbors in the proximity of that neighborhood. The character of Timberwood and Stone
Creek I don’t think is in jeopardy with the removal of the barrier, so as long as some of the key
questions, especially related to Stone Creek Court. I think we need to be careful about how we
treat those people because their houses, numbering would have to change, or not change our
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decision. And then lastly, as I review the notes of the 1992 decision, I really felt that the
decision was not about keeping Timberwood separate but I felt it was a decision by the council
to insist that the developer of Stone Creek create a development that would stand on it’s own.
This is evidenced by the fact that Stone Creek Court is not a cul-de-sac. It’s not built that way.
It’s built as the first step of a connection. So with that in mind Mr. Mayor, I would support the
connection.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Let me start by first of all saying thank you to everyone
involved. Those here tonight and those who, and some of you may be here tonight as well, that
sent us your comments by email. For the folks who spoke this evening I appreciate, and this may
sound silly but I do appreciate the way everybody’s handled themselves. This has generally been
an easy flowing meeting. Sometimes in these situations it’s less so and so I do want to say thank
you to everybody being involved. With regard to the various projects, for my fellow council
members, project areas 1, 2, 4 and 5, I’m certainly comfortable going forward with those. I think
we had some questions. They’ve been addressed and I’m convinced that the staff has thought
these through carefully and completely and I would certainly support their recommendations on
those. With regard to project 3, certainly the need is there to do it and I think the scope of the
project with regard to excluding the curb and gutter makes sense. So I’ll get to the heart of the
question now and that’s whether or not to extend the roads and to connect the roads or not. I
think in terms of the process, I think Councilwoman Tjornhom talked about this in connecting
neighborhoods, that has been a long standing policy of this city. Long before 1992 and we can
exemplify that because this is a rather unique discussion that we have at the council level, which
is two existing neighborhoods that are not connected. There are very few across the city that are
in that situation. Why do we connect neighborhoods? It’s a quality of life issue. It is a desire to
build a city in my opinion rather than a patchwork quilt of farms turned into houses. But really
to develop a city and to create connectedness. Now that doesn’t mean that we’re building a city
the way the first ring suburbs were built back in, after World War II. It was square, rectangle
blocks and all the lots the same. Obviously we have a lot of variety in our city and choices. Our
housing choices. That’s a priority for us as well. To have different choices available to people.
But connecting neighborhoods. Building a city that connects people is, has been a long standing
policy for this council and one that I have supported as well. When we look at whether or not to
connect these roads, these streets, safety has been brought up. Access to emergency vehicles.
That’s a real issue and that’s one that is of concern to me. Because the Timberwood
neighborhood is rural residential they don’t have public utilities, municipal utilities. I think if
they did this would be a different issue because of the need to connect those. Now do you have
to, can you have looped utilities without connecting streets? Sure. Anything’s possible. We can
make sure that addresses don’t have to change. I mean Mr. Knutson says we’re free to do
anything. It’s just some of them, our city attorney, some of them are just a little more difficult to
defend but. But there’s opportunities there. In the end I think you know there were a lot of
concerns raised and the concerns about traffic flow and speeds and safety for children walking
on streets and a lot of different concerns raised and in my opinion, while some of them may be,
may actually occur, I don’t think it’s been my experience that they occur at the same level that
perhaps that they are anticipated to occur. The traffic flows here, there is not as was described as
might be an example, a destination at where Timberwood would come into Stone Creek Drive.
That might create some cut through traffic or people that don’t live in the neighborhood to come
that way versus another way. If these streets are connected the people that will be traveling on
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the streets are all the people in this room and people that live in the neighborhoods and so it is, to
me it would not necessarily generate additional total traffic. It might just redirect where people
might go. So I think when I hear about a lot of the issues and look at the overall goal of
connecting neighborhoods, for me it places a fairly compelling argument to go ahead with the
connections there. That being said, I think it’s also critical that we look at prior council actions
and back in 1992 there was an action that was put in place not to connect the neighborhoods. I
think we have to give that very fair weight, and it’s my understanding and Ms. Aanenson please
correct me if I’m wrong, there wasn’t as part of the conditions in approving the Stone Creek
development, conditions or a temporary condition or a condition that this would be a temporary
non-connection of the roads. I think that might exist in some other developments around town
but to my knowledge that was not a situation here. Is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: I’m sorry, I’m not quite sure I understood what you were asking.
Mayor Furlong When the council approved the Stone Creek development they didn’t, they
chose not to connect these two roads at that time but that wasn’t a, I didn’t see a condition that
said this would be temporary until such an event occurred.
Kate Aanenson: No, you’re right. It was just temporary with no.
Mayor Furlong: But no event or…
Kate Aanenson: Right, like we do with an interim use permit there might be an event that would
trigger a change which said temporarily.
Mayor Furlong: Right. So I think you know when we look at that, the other thing that I think we
honestly have to consider as members of the council is the overwhelming opposition to
connecting these roads and I think that does weigh as much as there is very compelling reasons
and in my mind the argument needs to be, not is there a compelling reason to connect. That’s
long standing city policy. The argument has to be is there a compelling not to connect. That
being said, I think that clearly here with the prior council actions and with the positions of the
residents I can understand and can see at this time not moving forward with the connection. I
think the key would be, and I’d be interested in some of the issues raised as far as access to
public safety, if there’s an opportunity there. But I think if utilities are brought to this area, that
to me is now a change from the rural residential standard to a more suburban standard and when
that occurs, to me that now says, and because we have rural residential neighborhood in the
Timberwood and low density in Stone Creek, there are differences there. That was known at the
time of the original council action and I think that, we can respect that but to me it’s pretty clear
that if utilities are brought to the Timberwood neighborhood, then at that time these roads would
be connected and then the issues of two accesses and safety and everything else gets addressed.
And that obviously, if that happens, that would be a council action and as I understand it, would
be something that would be brought forward by the residents of the Timberwood neighborhood
as part of that. This has been a difficult decision and to try to come to a conclusion here or a
position for me because I am very adamant and have been over the years of connecting
neighborhoods and connecting roads and, but at the same time I can’t ignore and I don’t think as
a council we can ignore the sentiment on both sides of not making this connection. Especially
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absence the, a temporary condition or some sort of condition included at the original time that
the Stone Creek was approved. To me that, I am in favor of going forward with the project. I
think it’s probably at this point in time not the right time to connect. I think the trigger will be at
the time when utility services are brought to the Timberwood neighborhood for the simple reason
that because that takes away really the type of lifestyle that the neighborhood was originally
developed under, which was the rural residential style. That’s an area that does not receive city
services and, but once those services are provided, if there’s an opportunity to do something
from a safety standpoint, let’s look at that as an option and let’s consider that and maybe as a
council we can look to do that. Safety’s important but I think that at the same time that was you
know obviously laid out there and something that the residents have thought of and considered in
terms of their strong opposition to this connection as well so. But I, you can tell to the people in
the room and those watching at home, these are not easy decisions. None of us here want to
necessarily impose on our residents. At the same time there are real issues beyond just those that
an individual and their property might look at, and our responsibility, and for those watching at
home we have, I’m going to be wrong in the count. I’m going to guess probably about 40-50
people here in the council chambers. We’ll find out in the Villager if I’m anywhere close when
they report a number. And we represent all of you and we try to do a good job of doing that but
we also represent the 24,000 residents of Chanhassen that aren’t here at the council chambers as
well, and so when we look at establishing overall city policies we’re trying to do it for the best of
the 24,000. Not just the 24 or 40 that happen to be in the council chambers so speaking very
personally, this is not an easy decision to come to in my part but I think there are specific
circumstances here in terms of the differences in zoning. The original council actions and other
factors that at this point in time I would be comfortable going forward with the project without
the connection, but I believe that it should be, in my opinion that at some point these roads will
be connected and I think they will be connected based upon the extension of utility services or
other factors that may motivate everybody to say that it’s right to connect these. I’d be certainly
open for other thoughts and comments at this time, or reactions. If any. Councilman McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Well if I hear what you’re saying, you do want to consider the public
safety aspect of all of this, is that correct?
Mayor Furlong: I’d be open to looking at that. I think tonight, and perhaps that’s something that
we can get some, some, that we can get some sense of what that might be when they bring this
back in February because I believe if I looked at the calendar we’re looking at bringing back the,
th
February 28. So I don’t know if that’s enough time for staff to put something together or not.
It may be that that’s something that we look at over the next several weeks and see if it’s
something that we add in or not, and I don’t even know if it’s reasonable, feasible to do
something. Anything’s possible but that doesn’t mean that it’s appropriate to do. I would
absolutely be interested in looking at that. My concern with doing that though is now a
precedent that we’re setting that it’s okay to not connect neighborhoods and just put up, drop
down safety barriers and that to me, so I’d look at it with that sense too. That whatever we do in
one part of the city we should certainly be prepared to do in other parts as well. But I think it’s a
worthwhile idea to look at and let’s see what staff might come back with for us to consider.
Councilman McDonald: Well if there’s no other comment, if you’re ready for a motion.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Just, Mr. Gerhardt had a comment first.
Todd Gerhardt: Our City Attorney has advised me that we need a four-fifths vote on this item.
Not a simple majority based on the ordering of the project so, so you can separate out the
different projects and vote that way. Break them into 1, 2, 4 and 5 and vote on 3 separately.
You have choices.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Could we just, could someone offer a friendly amendment saying
excluding the connection from Timberwood to Stone Creek?
Roger Knutson: Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Knutson.
Roger Knutson: I mean you could make a motion to approve the project without a connection.
It wouldn’t have to be an amendment.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Even though staff’s recommending.
Todd Gerhardt: Right.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I just didn’t know if that was a more direct way of making a motion.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Well let’s start with a motion and then depending on the nature of the
motion there may be discussion by members of the council. Would somebody like to propose a
motion?
Councilman McDonald: Yeah the motion I would propose for this is that the City Council orders
the preparation of plans and specifications for the 2011 street improvement project 11-01 with
the inclusion of an emergency vehicle only break away barrier to separate Timberwood Drive
from Stone Creek Court. And then another thing that we’ve discussed and I’m not sure how that
should go in here is that we also not disturb the addresses or the street name for those homes on
Stone Creek Court.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. A motion’s been made. Is there a second? And I’m sorry, for
clarification of the motion, preparation of plans and specs for 11-01. That includes all five of
the…
Councilman McDonald: That’s all five.
Roger Knutson: And that includes adopting the resolution that’s in your packet?
Mayor Furlong: Adopting the resolution with the one change of.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Councilman McDonald: With the change of, instead of a connection that it become an
emergency only connection.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Is there a second for that motion?
Councilman Laufenburger: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Is there discussion on that motion?
Councilman Laufenburger: Yes Mr. Mayor. I’d like to clarify the, Mr. McDonald’s motion
regarding the description of what preparation of the barrier. I’d just like to have some
clarification on exactly what that preparation looks like.
Councilman McDonald: Well I think what I’m thinking about is going back to staff as you
discussed, I’d like to see them come back with plans and something more than just a barricade
that’s up there. Let’s put something in there that’s, I don’t want to say more professional looking
but let’s say more I guess appealing you know to the nature of the neighborhood but yet it’s
something that emergency vehicles can go through and gain access. So if that’s something that’s
you know spring loaded and flops down or if that’s something that they just break and then we
fix later, I’ll leave that to staff but I’m sure that there’s something out there that you know would
meet that criteria.
Councilman Laufenburger: It sounds like, excuse me.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: No, no, you were still going.
Councilman Laufenburger: It sounds like what you’re saying Councilman McDonald is that area
between the two barriers, that that would be prepared as a road.
Councilman McDonald: As a road.
Councilman Laufenburger: So the fire hydrant that’s there would have to be moved, but in the
middle of that road would be a barrier that clearly would be a deterrent for normal traffic. It
would be an impediment for normal traffic but could be broken away in the interest of public
safety, is that what you’re describing?
Councilman McDonald: Right, that’s what I’m describing.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. That helps me Mr. Mayor. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: If I’m understanding what Councilman McDonald’s motion was, I’m
not quite sure I’m comfortable with that. I would be comfortable with maybe asking staff to
investigate what is available but not necessarily implement what has been discovered because I
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
think with this motion the way it is now, there still will be something that’s put up there and I’m
not sure that I could support that.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council, what staff would do is prepare options. As Councilman
McDonald explained, you still will have to approve the final plans and specs for the project at the
end of February so at that time you could determine how that roadway would look and the
barricade.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: So if I’m understanding you correctly Councilman McDonald, you’re
including the connection in your motion.
Councilman McDonald: I’m including the connection but it can’t be used by the public.
Councilwoman Ernst: So it’s usable to only.
Mayor Furlong: I guess just a comment on this. I’m concerned about, and I understand the
desire that you have to put a connection in there for use by public safety personnel only. I don’t
know what that will be or what that would envision and I’m concerned about approving
something, requiring something when we don’t know what that’s going to be. I guess the way I
would prefer to deal with this, if possible, either through an amendment or other, is that we go
forward without the connection but that we ask staff to come back with a connection that is
allowable for public safety personnel only so that we can then evaluate what those options are
and whether or not we want, any of them are feasible, reasonable and we want to go forward
with them.
Councilman McDonald: Well I think that’s what Mr. Gerhardt said is that that’s what they
would come back with.
Mayor Furlong: The difference I’m envisioning would be is that we go forward tonight without
a connection.
Councilwoman Ernst: Right.
Mayor Furlong: Knowing that we might put a connection in if it’s available for safety personnel
only as opposed to going forward with a connection for only safety personnel and then evaluate,
and not knowing what, how that might work. Whether it may, we might find that it’s, anything’s
possible but it might not be feasible, either financially or practically and I think because of other
things that I’ve talked about earlier in terms of potential precedent I want to think about that and
make sure we’re going forward with something that makes sense long term for the city. So it’s,
that’s my concern is that your motion includes that in there and we don’t know what that is.
Councilman McDonald: Well I, you know a solution to that would be let’s just pull out project
number 3. Let’s give staff direction to come back with a design that meets that criteria and vote
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
on that particular at that time but pass the other projects tonight so they can go ahead and
proceed with that.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Councilman Laufenburger, what’s your thoughts with regard to either
going forward with that connection up front or with waiting and looking at it as an option to then
maybe add in at the time that we approve plans and specs?
Councilman Laufenburger: I don’t remember the exact wording Mr. Mayor but my desire based
on hearing from the other council members and also from the public is now to say let’s go
forward with the project and let’s seek staff recommendation on what that 50 feet or so would
look like that would prevent public transportation but would allow in the effect of an emergency
transit of public safety vehicles. Fire trucks. Things like that. If you want to change the
wording so that, go forward with a connection that is not a permanent connection but a
temporary that will be used under emergency situations only, I’d be okay with that. I just, I
recognize that, I saw that connection and if we take no action tonight to change the configuration
of that area, it’s not a break away. There’s a fire hydrant right in the middle of that barrier,
unless I visually saw it wrong. That fire hydrant would have to be moved in order for traffic to
move, for public service traffic to move through there. Is that correct Paul?
Paul Oehme: Right. I think there is a hydrant that would have to be extended back.
Councilman Laufenburger: It would have to be moved.
Paul Oehme: Out of the right-of-way.
Mayor Furlong: And that’s on the Stone Creek?
Councilman Laufenburger: It’s closet to the Stone Creek side, yes.
Paul Oehme: So I mean maybe another option would be.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Oehme.
Paul Oehme: Mayor, City Council members is for staff to put several options together. I think
we can turn around a potential emergency connection fairly easily and maybe put it on a future
th
work session on the February 14 work session. We can give the council some options and try
to move the process forward. I’m envisioning a couple different scenarios that we can
potentially work with.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Okay, and to be clear I’d like to see those scenarios before we approve
the process so if that’s the case then would there be sufficient time if we did not make any, take
any action on 3 tonight. Take a look at alternatives and evaluate where we want to go and move
the other 4 forward, would that be, would there still be sufficient time to stay close to the
schedule? We do have the advantage of 5 Mondays this month and so we don’t meet again for 3
weeks.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Paul Oehme: Sure.
th
Mayor Furlong: Or should we defer all of them and deal with them at our February 14
meeting?
Paul Oehme: Yeah. Well from a staff’s perspective I’d like to get some direction on the rest of
the projects at this time and try to move those forward as much as we can. In regards to the
project number 3 area, Timberwood Drive, you know from a staff’s perspective we like to, you
know if the council feels comfortable with the road improvements, you know advancing that
portion of the project at this time too but not allowing for, like you had said Mayor, that the
connection and we’ll bring back some options to the City Council to get their feedback and
recommendations.
Mayor Furlong: On what might be added in.
Paul Oehme: On what might be added in down the road too, and it really doesn’t have to be
th
decided at this point in time I don’t think. Even at the February 28 meeting when you approve
plans and specs we can always change order into, or addendum that portion of that road if.
Mayor Furlong: With whatever options we discuss.
Paul Oehme: Exactly, so time isn’t as critical. I think getting the plans completed for the rest of
the projects are a little bit more. Need to be more little more timely I think.
Mayor Furlong: So what I’m hearing is you prefer for us to try to go forward with as much as
we can agree on.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Mayor Furlong: And then look at the alternatives at subsequent work sessions.
Paul Oehme: Exactly, and one other thing too. I think it behooves us to talk to the residents in
this area too because for aesthetic reasons and try to get some feedback from them too on how
that potentially can be reconfigured so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. With that I guess Mr. McDonald, are you comfortable going
forward with the staff’s recommendation in terms of the scope there or would you prefer to?
Councilman McDonald: Well if you want I can re-word the motion that I put before everyone to
exclude the connection until staff returns to council with.
Mayor Furlong: With options.
Councilman McDonald: With plans and design options.
Mayor Furlong: That might include a safety only or safety…connection.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Councilman McDonald: Well I guess I would like to see that we do make a decision if there’s
going to be a connection it is for safety purposes. That’s the only reason that we would even
consider one.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. For clarification then do you want to, a motion’s been made and
seconded so we can either table this and start fresh or we can make an amendment to this motion.
Do you have a?
Councilman McDonald: I’m comfortable either way. I can amend this motion.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, why don’t you offer an amendment to your motion then. We don’t need
to get too tied up here but I want to make sure everything’s.
Councilwoman Ernst: What about just withdraw it and start all over?
Roger Knutson: You can do that but you’re getting procedurally in a difficult place.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Roger Knutson: You could just withdraw your motion and make a new motion would be the
cleanest thing to do.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, I’ll withdraw my original motion.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Roger Knutson: And the second, you’re okay with that?
Councilman Laufenburger: I’ll withdraw my second.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, I’ll make a new motion that the City Council orders the
preparation of plans and specifications for the 2011 street improvement project 11-01 with the
exception of the connection between Timberwood Drive and Stone Creek Court which staff will
return to council with plans and options for an emergency only break-away barrier to separate
both Timberwood Drive from Stone Creek Court. And I would like to still put in there that we
will not disturb the home addresses or the street name for Stone Creek Court.
Roger Knutson: And you’re also adopting the resolution with those modifications, right?
Councilman McDonald: Right.
Roger Knutson: The written resolution.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Councilman McDonald: The written resolution with these modifications to basically project
number 3.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any discussion on this motion? I’m sorry,
Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: So just for clarification, there’s been a lot of conversation and a lot of
verbiage and I just want to make sure that we’re not including the connection here, right?
Councilman McDonald: Right, until staff comes back. And then at that time we would vote on
it.
Councilwoman Ernst: But if staff comes back that could be just on the emergency piece only.
Councilman McDonald: Right. That’s what I put was strictly emergency only.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: And it would also be my understanding that this motion if approved does not
require us to go forward with an emergency connection.
Councilman McDonald: No.
Mayor Furlong: Right?
Councilman McDonald: That’s the way I think I said it right.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, and you’re clarifying that.
Councilman McDonald: Right.
Mayor Furlong: That that is not a requirement but.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah. That’s not a requirement until staff comes back…
Mayor Furlong: If there’s an option that we find acceptable that would be included.
Councilman McDonald: Right.
Councilwoman Ernst: Or we could vote against it right?
Councilman McDonald: Or we can say no connection at that point.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Everybody’s nodding their head. I like when that happens. Alright.
Motion’s been made and seconded. Any other discussion? Hearing none we’ll proceed with the
vote.
Resolution#2011-04: Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded
that the City Council adopt the resolution ordering the preparation of plans and
specifications for the 2011 Street Improvement Project 11-01 with the exception of the
connection between Timberwood Drive and Stone Creek Court. Staff is directed to return
with plans and options for an emergency only, break-away barrier to separate
Timberwood Drive from Stone Creek Court and a condition that the home addresses and
street name for Stone Creek Court not be disturbed. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you everyone. We appreciate your efforts. In light of the time let’s take
a brief recess subject to the call of the Chair. Less than 5 minutes please.
MINNETONKA MIDDLE SCHOOL WEST INTERIM USE PERMIT: CONSIDER
APPROVAL OF INTERIM USE PERMIT FOR GRADING FOR TENNIS COURT
CONSTRUCTION; 6421 HAZELTINE BOULEVARD; APPLICANT: INSPEC.
Public Present:
Name Address
Mike Condon 5621 County Road 101, Minnetonka
Cliff Buhman, Inspec 5801 Duluth Street, Minneapolis
Paul Oehme: Mr. Mayor, City Council members. This item is again like you said, an Interim
Use Permit for basically grading purposes for 5 additional tennis courts at the Middle School
West campus. The reason for the Interim Use Permit is the requirement that because material is
being graded on site in excess of 1,000 cubic yards, that kind of trips the City Code and
requirements into requiring an Interim Use Permit so. With that being said the City Planning
th
Commission did review this item on their January 4 meeting and with a vote of 5 to 0 in favor
of moving forward with the project. So just quickly the Minnetonka West Middle School is
located just off of Trunk Highway 41, just south of Highway 7. There are currently 2 tennis
courts positioned on the campus currently and the proposal is to add an additional 5 stalls or 5
tennis courts, mainly along the.
Todd Gerhardt: That was the last report.
Mayor Furlong: Those are big stalls.
Paul Oehme: Along the trail section and in conjunction reconstructing the existing 2 tennis
courts as well so the project from a staff’s perspective mainly consists of grading issues. Erosion
control and water quantity discussions as well so staff has reviewed the applicant’s project and
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
application and has recommended 19 conditions for approval, and all these were approved at the
Planning Commission. There is one additional condition that staff did hand out to the council.
Number 20 and it reads, the applicant shall verify the tennis courts are outside easements and
need a 15 foot setback. Basically this new tennis courts right here, it’s a little bit hard on the
drawings to show that. To see that it meets our 15 foot setback so we just want them to make
sure that, that condition is also met so. So the plans as brought forward by the applicant
originally did have the storm water for the 5 courts basically coming into a storm water treatment
pond here. Instead it’s staff’s recommendation to eliminate this section of storm sewer pipe and
re-route it to an existing storm sewer system here and connect into the existing structure for
maintenance purposes and eliminate as many inlets into a pond as you can basically for erosion
purposes and maintenance so. The applicant has agreed to that change as well so with that the
recommendation is shown here. The applicant is here if council does have questions and staff is
here to answer any questions that you have as well so with that.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for staff? Just one quick question. I’m looking at
the, I guess it is the resolution. The interim use permit. This additional condition that you
passed out I think is numbered with the staff report. Would that be included as a letter condition
under number 3 on the resolution, or the interim use permit?
Paul Oehme: It would have to be included as.
Mayor Furlong: A (t) I assume.
Paul Oehme: T. Right.
Mayor Furlong: Am I looking at that correctly Ms. Aanenson?
Kate Aanenson: It would be condition number 20 on the conditions of approval.
Mayor Furlong: Right. I’m just looking at the interim use permit. It goes down. Those are
lettered.
Kate Aanenson: It should also be in there, that’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, so this would be included as 20 in the staff and (t) in the Interim Use
Permit.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Alright. And by the tennis courts here on condition 20 we’re
talking about the, what the closest to the fence or whatever, the closest.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I’m double checking that the side yard setback if 15 feet. That fence is
just about 13 feet away from that existing home. Just kind of reviewing that. We want to make
sure it’s consistent.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Okay, but it would be the fence post. Not necessarily.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. The fence perimeter of the tennis court.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any other questions for staff on this? The applicant’s here.
Anything you’d like to address the council with?
Mike Condon: We’re just here if you have any questions for us.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. What was that Mr. Knutson? That’s fine. Any questions for the
applicant? Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Since you came and you stayed you need at least one question. Once
these things are put together, will they be open for the public you know during the weekends?
Summers? How do you envision them being used?
Mike Condon: That is the plan…
Mayor Furlong: Excuse me sir, if you could step forward to the podium. Name and address for
the record please.
Mike Condon: My name is Mike Condon. Supervisor of Building and Grounds for Minnetonka
Schools. Address that I’m here representing tonight is 6421 Hazeltine Boulevard.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Mike Condon: That is the idea of the courts is to have them open, not only for the school day.
Our tennis programs and our co-curriculum programs but also to the community.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you.
Mike Condon: Yep, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions? The conditions on this interim use permit, are those
standard conditions for similar type projects?
Paul Oehme: More or less, yes.
Mayor Furlong: More or less, okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Comments. Discussion
or would somebody like to make a motion? Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’d love to. I’d like to make a motion that the City Council approve
the Interim Use Permit for grading for new court construction at Minnetonka Middle School
West, plans prepared by Inspec dated December 3, 2010 subject to the following conditions of
the staff report and adoption of the Findings of Fact.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilman McDonald: I’ll second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any discussion?
Councilman McDonald: I’ve got a question for 20. Does that need to be included in here?
Roger Knutson: It is included.
Mayor Furlong: It is included because it was part of the staff report on the interim use. Thank
you. Any other questions or discussion?
Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the City Council
approve the interim use permit to permit site grading for the tennis courts subject to the
following conditions and adoption of the Findings of Fact:
1.Adequate sediment and erosion control practices must be installed prior to any earth-
disturbing activities.
2.All silt fence shall use metal t-posts and shall be consistent with City Detail Plate No. 5300.
Include detail on sheet 5.
3.Rock construction entrance locations shall be shown on the plan and should be placed such
that construction traffic does not cross the proposed infiltration areas. Rock construction
entrances shall be consistent with City Detail Plate No. 5301. Include detail on sheet 5.
4.Infiltration areas shall be protected from sediment deposition and compaction resulting from
construction equipment throughout construction. This must be noted on the plans along with
all other areas to be protected.
5.Category 3 erosion control blanket shall be used on all disturbed slopes with positive flow to
the pond unless sod is to be placed and staked.
6.The applicant is responsible for procurement of the NPDES General Permit to Discharge
Stormwater Associated with Construction Activity prior to any earth-disturbing activities. A
full SWPPP will need to be prepared and submitted to the City for review and approval prior
to any earth-disturbing activities. The SWPPP must include all components identified in
Parts III and IV of the permit.
7.Redundant erosion control measures shall be included at the two new inlets to the pond.
Floating silt curtain should be used at the more southerly inlet but a second line of silt fence
may be adequate at the other new inlet.
8.The infiltration design and maintenance shall be consistent with the 2008 Minnesota
Stormwater Manual; in particular Chapter 12 and Appendix D.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
9.Protection must be provided to assure that construction equipment is not tracked over the
proposed infiltration areas, materials are not stockpiled in these areas and sediment
deposition does not occur in these areas. This is most commonly accomplished through the
use of silt fence. Further, this should be noted on the plan set, in the SWPPP and within the
project specifications manual.
10.Infiltration features must be separated from the ground water by a minimum of three feet.
Provide boring data to confirm this separation.
11.As the infiltrometer tests were performed approximately 60 feet west of the proposed
infiltration area and the infiltration rates are under the optimal conditions, and likely to
decline over time, a margin of safety shall be built into the design to account for a diminished
infiltration.
12.To assure that the area drains in 48 hours or less, the system shall be designed with an
underdrain and coarse aggregate storage as depicted in Appendix D of the Minnesota
Stormwater Manual – “Bioretention/Infiltration/Filtration Facility”, page 723 of 885. This
would likely satisfy the above condition.
13.CBMH 1 shall be moved northerly on the site and lowered so that the rim elevation is below
1060 feet.
14.The applicant shall relocate to proposed drain tile outlet for the four most easterly tennis
courts. The new outlet shall be between the most southerly court and the next most southerly
court. This shall then be connected to CBMH 2 and the outlet for this manhole shall then be
sized accordingly.
15.A stable emergency overflow shall be provided from the easterly basin to the pond.
16.The applicant shall demonstrate how the filtration swales are to be vegetated. At a minimum,
fescues and/or other deep-rooted grasses should be used to promote infiltration.
17.The new outlet elevations are shown to be 1046 feet. It appears that the ordinary high water
level (OHW) is at 1045.4 and the normal water level (NWL) is at an unknown elevation but
likely at or around 1043.5. The newly proposed outlet shall be set at the NWL.
18.The applicant or their consulting engineer shall develop an operations and maintenance
manual for the infiltration/filtration features and that this includes some type of vegetative
filter to provide pretreatment of the water entering the system.
19.The applicant shall provide a security in the amount of $4,000 to guarantee erosion control.
Add the following condition:
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
20.The applicant shall verify that the tennis courts are outside any easements and meet the 15
foot side yard setback.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
CHES MAR REZONINGS AND PUD AMENDMENTS: CONSIDER APPROVAL OF
ND
REZONING PROPERTY WITHIN CHES MAR FARM, CHES MAR FARM 2
ADDITION AND CHES MAR TRAILS TO PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (PUD);
APPLICANT: CITY OF CHANHASSEN.
Kate Aanenson: Mayor, members of the City Council. This item appeared before the Planning
th
Commission on January 4 and they unanimously recommended approval 5-0. The Ches Mar
Farm is located off of Hazeltine Boulevard, just north of Camp Tanadoona and south of the
Minnewashta Regional Park. This area, the underlying area around this is zoned rural residential
and does not have any utility services to it. This parcel was brought to our attention, the three
parcels as the Ches Mar, was brought to our attention when someone called in for a zoning
information and we realized some ambiguity in the three different plats so it’s before you today
and really to simplify, similar to what we’ve done with the industrial property where we actually
went back and had the PUD tied back to a specific, because there were no ordinances attached.
We’re tying this back to the underlying rural residential but for a couple anomalies which I’ll
speak to in a second. So the reason for the request is that we noticed the mapping area. Again
we are the keeper of the mapping so if someone calls in to get zoning information for refinancing
it needs to be correct and noted what their rights are with the property. So on researching these
three plats the inconsistencies were determined and the purpose is to clarify the underlying
zoning district, specifically the rural residential for the three parcels. The Ches Mar Farm, Ches
nd
Mar 2 Addition and Ches Mar Trails. Also within that the anomalies then would be, there is an
existing stable on the property that, in that district, we’re going to make it, because it’s already
there, an accessory use rather than a conditional use because as long as that property stays in the
rural residential, that horse property will stay there. So these are the number of parcels that are
involved in all of the rezoning in itself so there’s three outlots included in there, but they are
different plats and that’s where the little mess occurred. So over time there was a couple of
subdivisions in place for this parcel and to correct that we’re going to kind of go back through
each of the different plats to show you how it worked and so these are the three parcels that were
in place. The Ches Mar Farms, which had a number of properties on it, which I’ll go through in
nd
a minute. The Ches Mar Farms 2 Addition and then the Ches Mar Trails. So for the history of
it the Ches Mar Farms in and of itself was done in April, 1986 and that was actually done
because there was, it was an R-1 at that time. Was given a PUD to accommodate the fact there
was multiple units out there. There were 12 parcels so I tried to parcel those out and in order to
do that our ordinance allows for multiple units on one parcel using the PUD tool so it was done
that. The problem that happened is it wasn’t tied to an underlying zoning. We couldn’t find that
ordinance so to clarify too, before we did this rezoning with the Planning Commission, a notice
went out to all the property owners explaining in detail what we intended to do and clarify. We
met with all of those so some of them did show up to the Planning Commission but, so they were
given a lot of notice and it does resolve some of their issues with the parcel in the fact that there
are some non conforming uses on the property that will remain in place that we’ve addressed. So
again it was a 12 acre parcel. It was split into 4 so each parcel had their own property. From that
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additional splits took place. So the 2 Addition came in and that was Ches Mar Farms 2 and
the intent of this was to subdivide 22.8 acres into 2 lots. Again this time when the RR zoning
was in place. Again no ordinance was applied. And then in 1991 an additional development was
created. At that time the City Council stated that they could meet the conditions of the RR and
wanted to do that but again there’s no record of the ordinance in place. So what this does, takes
all those ordinances and creates it all PUDR so they all have that same zoning. The one piece
that was left off, that just left RR, we made it all PUD. It makes it easier. The underlying
property owner’s comfortable with that so they all are PUD with the underlying standards of the
Rural Residential. The only other thing that changed will be on the ordinance part of it self and
that was that we did allow under the no noted, under permitted use on Lot 1, Block 2, they can
continue to use as a twin. A duplex up there and that property owner was at the Planning
Commission meeting so that twin home will continue on that property as long as it stays in the
state it’s in now. And then the other would be the accessory use and rather the conditional use
for the stable which has always been there. It’s rather than conditional use, that lot will be an
accessory use. So it does meet all the conditions of the PUD and the RR so with that we are
clarifying the property itself. Putting together an ordinance so if someone wants to find out
what’s permitted on their property and what’s it zoned, we have that legal document for them so
it’s really a clean up. So with that I’d be happy to answer any questions that you may have.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for city staff. None? Okay. Very good. Thank you and
thank you Ms. Aanenson for your efforts there and for the Planning Commission’s as well. Any
thoughts? Comments. Or would somebody like to make a motion? Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: I make a motion that we approve the rezoning of Parcel 1, Lot 1, Block 1,
nd
Ches Mar Farms 2 Addition, Parcel 2, Ches Mar Trails and Parcel 3, Ches Mar Farms to
Planned Unit Development, PUD adoption of attached ordinance and adoption of Planning
Commission’s Findings of Fact.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
Councilman Laufenburger: Second.
Mayor Furlong: We’ll give it to Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: It’s a longer name than Tjornhom.
Mayor Furlong: It is.
Todd Gerhardt: Poor Nann.
Mayor Furlong: Well Tjornhom, I mean come on. There isn’t an Anderson or Johnson among
us is there? Motion’s been made and seconded. It is getting late if no one can tell. Any
discussion on the motion? Seeing none we’ll proceed with the vote.
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Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman Laufenburger seconded that the City Council
nd
approves the rezoning of Parcel 1 (Lot 1, Block 1, Ches Mar Farms 2 Addition), Parcel 2
(Ches Mar Trails), and Parcel 3 (Ches Mar Farm) to Planned Unit Development (PUD);
adoption of attached ordinance and adoption of the Planning Commission’s Findings of
Fact. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
SUPPORT OF A NOMINATION FOR METRO CITIES BOARD.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger, you asked that this be put on.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yes Mr. Mayor. I’d like to move that the Chanhassen City Council
extend support for Councilwoman Vicki Ernst’s nomination for filling a current vacant and
unexpired term on the Board of Directors Metro Cities Board Minnesota.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilman McDonald: I’ll second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Discussion, Mr. Gerhardt. Can you give us
a little background on the.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, we are a member of the Metro Cities Board. Metro Cities advocates on
behalf of their members in the metro area. Those cities that have decided to join Metro Cities.
Each year Metro Cities develops a list of legislative priorities to advocate on behalf of it’s
members and they also have appointment authority to the Transportation Advisory Board, the
Technical Advisory Commission, and a couple other organizations. The Metro GIS Policy
Board and a Grant Evaluation and Ranking System. Metro Cities, we’ve been a member
probably for 25 plus years.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any discussion to the motion? And so there’d be an application
present. We don’t have opportunity to make the appointment. We’re just supporting your
application.
Todd Gerhardt: Just so council understands. There’s one vacancy right now and there will be
additional vacancies in April so, my guess is the motion included to apply for this vacancy and
then the one in April also.
Mayor Furlong: Sure. That’d be fine.
Todd Gerhardt: Since we’re clarifying all motions tonight.
Councilman Laufenburger: It is. I’d just like to say this that I think that it’s important for
Chanhassen as one of the 80 members of this Metro Cities, it’s important that we seek and take
advantage of every opportunity to represent our interests amongst the legislative influencing
bodies and this is a good opportunity to do so and I’ve heard from the Director, Executive
Director Patricia Nowman that this would not incorrectly imbalance the make-up of the Board so
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
I think it’s a good opportunity for Chanhassen. I think it’s a great opportunity for
Councilwoman Ernst so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any other thoughts or discussion?
Resolution#2011-05: Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilman McDonald seconded
that the Chanhassen City Council extend support for Councilwoman Vicki Ernst’s
nomination for filling the current and April vacancy on the Board of Directors Metro
Cities Board Minnesota. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a
vote of 5 to 0.
Councilwoman Ernst: Thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate that.
Mayor Furlong: You’re very welcome. Thank you for agreeing to serve. Or at least throwing
your hat in the ring right. Yeah. Very good. Good luck.
Councilwoman Ernst: Thank you.
CONSIDERATION OF A RESOLUTION SUPPORTING THE REAPPOINTMENT OF
CRAIG PETERSON TO THE METRO COUNCIL BOARD DISTRICT 4.
Mayor Furlong: I will move the resolution and ask for a second and then discussion.
Councilman McDonald: I’ll second.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Motion’s been made and seconded. I did talk to, this was a result
of comments made at our work session earlier, I guess earlier this month and I did check with
Mr. Peterson. Of course Mr. Peterson’s not only a current Metropolitan Council member but as
most of us know he has been very active and involved over the years. The resolution includes
some of his prior involvement including being involved on the Metropolitan Council’s
Environmental Management Committee. Of course our own Chanhassen City Council.
Chanhassen Economic Development Authority. Southwest Transit Commission, including a
tenure as Chair. Member of the Metropolitan Council Transportation Advisory Board and
Chanhassen Planning Commission. In my opinion Mr. Peterson has done an excellent job in his
role and I’ve heard very good comments from others, not only in Carver County but Scott
County which includes his district and that to me speaks volumes of the job that he has done
because I know he has support for some influential people of Scott County for his reappointment
and they are very, that in and of itself is a credit to Craig’s work and so happy to make this
motion of support and would encourage everyone to support it, which I’m sure I can count on.
Any other comments or.
Councilman Laufenburger: Just another good example of contributions by people living south of
Highway 5.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Mayor Furlong: You know I’m trying to get this passed right now. Any other, it’s late. Come
on. It’s after 10:00. We don’t do this very often this late. If there’s no other discussion or
comments, we’ll proceed with the vote.
Resolution#2011-06: Mayor Furlong moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the
Chanhassen City Council approve a resolution supporting the reappointment of Craig
Peterson to the Metropolitan Council District 4. All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS:
Mayor Furlong: There seems to be a lot of things going on but. Let’s see, Friday.
Todd Gerhardt: Friday.
Mayor Furlong: Friday had a, it was a very big day, especially for first grader at Bluff Creek
Elementary. A little boy that sent me a request to meet the mayor. Wanted to come to City Hall
and see my great office and the staff’s laughing because I’m assuming he’s in bed right now but I
didn’t have the heart to tell him I don’t have an office at City Hall so I asked if I could come to
his classroom.
Todd Gerhardt: This is your office.
Mayor Furlong: And had a great time with 25 first graders in Ms. Nelson’s class at Bluff Creek
Elementary. Mr. Gerhardt joined me and had just a great time trying to explain to them just all
the things that we do. Road connections and bond refinancing’s did not make the list. Tried to
keep it a little more basic than that but great group. Sam Hagen was the little boy and hopefully
we’ll have a nice picture for him in the Villager this week so lot of fun there.
Todd Gerhardt: Tom, I’ve got to thank you. I mean you made that little boy’s day. Made him
really special. He got to come to the front of the class and he introduced the mayor and then
Tom was nice enough to have him help operate the Smart Board and so he would move the slides
forward and it was just a great presentation. It was fun and just a great group of kids. They had
all the answers.
Mayor Furlong: Yes they did.
Todd Gerhardt: We’re in good hands in the future.
Mayor Furlong: And we heard everybody’s story of when the power went out because
everybody had to share.
Todd Gerhardt: Just about ready to play Wii and then the electricity went out.
Mayor Furlong: That’s right. So great time.
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Chanhassen City Council - January 24, 2011
Councilman McDonald: Well thank God it wasn’t our fault.
Todd Gerhardt: That’s right. That’s what I said.
Mayor Furlong: It was a MnDOT truck. Any other council presentations?
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
Todd Gerhardt: I attended the 276 Leaders meeting last Wednesday and a little different meeting
than what we had in the past. We talked about collaboration efforts and each city kind of went
through some of their efforts that are currently organized. The lake communities are very
organized and Shorewood, Excelsior sharing police service and fire services and we looked at
expanding the sealcoating program with some of those communities and maybe some fuel
purchasing. Giving them a part of the program and so we’re going to have one discussion at
each of our next meetings for individual cities to kind of highlight some other thoughts that
might come up between now and then. And that’s all I have.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any questions for Mr. Gerhardt or staff? No?
CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION.
None.
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded to adjourn the meeting.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City
Council meeting was adjourned at 10:10 p.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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