1i. City Council Minutes July 8, 1996.I
ti
' CHANHASSEN C1TY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 8, 1996
Mayor Chmiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilman Berquist, Councilwoman Dockendorf, and
Councilman Senn
' COUNCIL MEMBERS ABSENT: Councilman Mason
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knutson, Todd Gerhardt, Charles Folch, and Kate Aanenson
' APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilman Berquist moved, Councilman Senn seconded to approve the agenda
with the following changes and additions: Mayor Chmiel wanted to add a thank you to the Chanhassen
Centennial Committee, volunteers, and staff; Councilman Senn wanted to add discussion of the Administrative
Packet under Council Presentations; Councilwoman Dockendorf wanted to move item 7 to item 1(m)(1); and
item number 5 was pulled per staffs request. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
' PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Mayor Chmiel: The public announcement that I would like to make is to thank the Chanhassen Centennial
' Committee and all the volunteers that really brought this whole project together for the 4th of July. I've never
seen such participation by volunteers in all 8 years that I've sat here and I think it's really great to see that those
people really gave forth, and there wasn't a problem at all at any given time. There wasn't a hitch. Even with
the parade. We had 62 floats and everything went right off like clockwork. And they really, really did a great
' job and I'd like to once again say thank you from the City Council and myself. You're great and as the kids
often say, you are cool. So with that, that is the public announcement.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the
following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations:
' b. Highlands on Lake St. Joe, Lundgren Brothers:
1) Final Plat Approval
2) Approve Addendum to Development Contract, Project 93- 3113-1.
' d. Resolution #96 -55: Approve Plans & Specifications for Coulter Boulevard Pedestrian Underpass Project;
Authorize Advertising for Bids, Project No. 93- 26C /S.P. 194 - 090 -030.
' f. City Council Minutes dated June 24, 1996
Planning Commission Minutes dated June 19, 1996
' i. Approve Easement to meet Site Coverage Requirements for Hiway 5 Centre.
j. Acceptance of $2,000 Donation for Lake Ann Park Ballfield Lighting Project, Chanhassen American
' Legion Post 580.
Resolution #96 -56i Parl:/Trailways Acquisition And Development Fund Amendment; Transfer of $16,000
of Trailway Funds from 1995 to 1996; Chanhassen Pond Park.
4
1
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Consent to the Installation of Underground Electrical Lines within a City '
1. C g ty Watermain Easement,
Chanhassen East Business Center /SCM Investors, Inc., Project 95 -23.
All voted in favor and the motion carried. ,
G. APPROVE FINDINGS OF NEED FOR AN EAW, TOWN & COUNTRY HOMES FIRST ADDITION. '
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I think in consideration that people have come here to discuss this piece of
property, that perhaps we should talk about it instead of just passing it. And I can't find my, here it is. It is a
petition for an Environmental Assessment Worksheet for the property that Town & Country Homes is '
considering developing and your recommendation from staff is to deny the request. I would appreciate Kate if
you could just speak to it a little bit.
Kate Aanenson: Sure, thank you. The State rules require that if the EAW is petitioned by any other persons,
that the RGU ... government unit which would be the City. They'd have to demonstrate that the project may have
significant environmental affects. We have taken the position that we do not believe so. The applicant's have '
raised four issues, which we.addressed in our response. The first being that the project would cause significant
impacts to the surface water and ground water in the area. We believe through our storm water management
plan that we take that level even further than what would be required so we don't think . that that would be an
issue. The second one is development of the site would adversely affect wildlife in the area ... no one has '
completed investigation to determine... Again, as far as endangered species, we don't believe that that ... under
that criteria of the petition. The third one would be the site would have potential impact on the historical or
archeological resources. Again, this site has not been noted as a historical or archeological site in this area and '
we've gotten into some... And then the fourth issue is that development of the property will significantly and
harmfully change the aesthetics of the property. Again it's guided for industrial and it's inside the urban service
area. We felt that that's consistent with the zoning. We don't believe that that change from, whether it be
residential or industrial would be a significant negative impact and therefore...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, any other questions?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: No. '
Mayor Chmiel: Is there a motion? '
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I would move that the petition for the EAW be denied.
Councilman Berquist: And I'll second it. '
Mayor Chmiel: Moved and seconded. Any other discussion?
Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to deny the petition for an Environmental '
Assessment Worksheet for the Town & Country Home First Addition based on the following findings:
1. The City. of Chanhassen is the Responsible Governmental Unit for the determination of the need for an '
Environmental; Ass .W
essment orkshee t
A�
2. The project site is located in the City of Chanhassen, Minnesota.
2 1
1
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
3. The development, as proposed, does not require a mandatory EAW pursuant to Minnesota Rules, Chapter
' 4410.
4. The proposed development is located within the Metropolitan Urban Service Area.
' 5. The project site is guided for office /industrial uses in the City of Chanhassen 2000 Land Use Plan.
6. Office/Industrial uses are urban type uses.
' 7. The applicant is proposing a mixed medium density residential and industrial office development on 45.21
acres located at the northwest corner of Lyman and Galpin Blvd. The applicant is requesting a land use
' plan amendment for the northerly 22.6 acres from office /industrial to residential medium density,
conceptual and preliminary PUD approval for a mixed townhome and office - industrial development,
rezoning from A2, Agricultural Estate to PUD, Planned Unit Development, site plan approval for 140
townhome units, a wetland alteration permit to fill and excavate wetlands on site, and preliminary plat
approval creating 24 lots and associated right -of -way, Town & Country Homes First Addition, Town and
Country Homes.
8. The proposed development is required to comply with the City of Chanhassen's landscaping and tree
preservation requirements, wetland protection ordinance, storm water management plan, and subdivision
ordinance.
' 9. The proposed development will have no significant negative environmental effects.
10. There is no unmitigated negative surface water or ground water impacts due to the development.
' 11. There are no known endangered species or critical habitat on site.
' 12. There are no known significant historical or archeological resources on site.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
' LAND USE PLAN AMENDMENT FOR THE NORTHERLY 22.6+ ACRES FROM OFFICE/INDUSTRIAL TO
RESIDENTIAL MEDIUM DENSITY; CONCEPTUAL AND PRELEW NARY PUD APPROVAL FOR A
MIXED TOWNHOME AND OFFICE - INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT ON 45.21 ACRES; REZONING FROM
' A2, AGRICULTURAL ESTATE TO PUD, PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT; SITE PLAN APPROVAL
FOR 146 TOWNHOME UNITS; A WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT TO FILL AND EXCAVATE
WETLANDS ON SITE; AND PRELIlIHNARY PLAT APPROVAL CREATING 27 LOTS AND ASSOCIATED
' RIGHT -OF -WAY; LOCATED AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF LYMAN AND GALPIN BLVD.; TOWN
& COUNTRY HOMES FIRST ADDMON, TOWN & COUNTRY HOMES.
Public Present:
' Name Address
Mike Mullins 2547 Bridle Creek Trail
i
' Peter & LuAnn Sidney 2431 Bridle Creek Trail
_� 3
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 ,
Mayor Chmiel: Yes. I'll get to that right now. '
Councilman Senn: Oh! So moved.
Councilman Berquist: Second. '
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to table the request from Town & Country Homes for
Town & Country Homes First Addition until the August 12, 1996 City Council meeting per the applicant's
request. All voted in favor and the motion carried. '
'i
4
'
Steve & Nancy Cavanaugh h 2441 Bridle Creek Trail
Mike Minear 2421 Bridle Creek Trail
Jim & Mary Stasson 2461 Bridle Creek Trail
'
Marcia Kladek 2491 Bridle Creek Trail
Craig & Nina Wallestad 2475 Bridle Creek Trail
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. We'll move item 7 to 1(m)(1), but before I go into that. The developer would like an
'
opportunity to address those people here for this specific proposal. And if you would please, step forward.
State your name and address and your purpose.
'
Bob Smith: Good evening Mr. Mayor and members of the City Council. My name is Bob Smith. I've Vice
President of Land Development of Town & Country Homes. Our office is 6800 France Avenue, Edina. This
evening what we'd like to do or propose is a continuation of the hearing on the development that we're
'
proposing until the August 12th City Council, which would be about a month. The reasons for this, it would
give us the opportunity at Town & Country Homes to work with the neighborhood. Have another neighborhood
meeting to discuss their issues ... to present more clearly the project to the neighborhood to hopefully to obtain a
consensus from the neighborhood. I think that the community that we propose to develop will be neighbors to
'
these folks and we want to have good feelings back and forth in the future. This would give us an opportunity
to present the project more clearly to them. At this time we'd like to take and ask for a continuance to the
August 12th hearing.
'
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Kate, with his request, that has no bearing factor on our time line?
'
Kate Aanenson: Correct. They did submit a letter in writing late this afternoon. In speaking with the City
Attorney, as long as they've requested it in writing, the time clock is moved...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Now everyone who is here this evening, for the Town & Country Homes First Addition,
'
it's going to be delayed until August 12th. I'm glad you asked for that because if you didn't I was going to ask
that as well. Only because this is going to take a 4/5 majority of a vote and there's only four members here.
The fifth member should also have that opportunity to vote as well on the Council. And being that he's on
'
vacation and will be back on the 27th, we will go from there. Does everyone understand what we're basically
doing? Any questions? Okay.
Councilman Senn: Do you need a motion to table at the applicant's request?
'
Mayor Chmiel: Yes. I'll get to that right now. '
Councilman Senn: Oh! So moved.
Councilman Berquist: Second. '
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to table the request from Town & Country Homes for
Town & Country Homes First Addition until the August 12, 1996 City Council meeting per the applicant's
request. All voted in favor and the motion carried. '
'i
4
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
7—
�J
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
' Gary Delaney: Mr. Mayor, and Council members.
Mayor Chmiel: Could you sort of come up with whoever wants to be a spokesperson for this and I think you
' can do a good job.
Gary Delaney: Well we've got a lot of residents here but I am certainly concerned about the issues that you
' probably all knw well. My name is Gary Delaney and I live at 1161 Bluff Creek Drive, which is better known
as the Bluff Creek Inn and we're here this evening primarily in regards to the out of control issue with Bluff
Creek Drive. I always have to swallow deeply and get a little bit of fresh air ... maybe for you folks as well as
' for us but over the last time I was here a couple of years ago, it was put to me that if I wanted to come up with
a solution for Bluff Creek Drive, that I should do so and that the Council would be interested in perhaps hearing
them, and I felt that was a bit of an affront because I don't have the resources at my disposal to be able to do so
but I'm back here again and as deeply concerned. From our business standpoint, I have people from all over the
' world. I have ambassadors from foreign nations as well as 45% of our guests come from here in the metro area,
and I've got to tell you, for the concern for our guests to have to wake up in the morning, especially during the
week, and have thousands of cars going by at 28 feet from our building and these huge belly trucks that have
' destroyed the road. Just today you put up a sign stating that they should be under 5 axle weight. One of the
comments from the last meeting that I was at here on this issue was, we thought that the road should be taken
out of the state system because I know... standards and ... at that time because it would be very expensive. Well I
would suggest that probably fixing that road, which at least friends of mine who are engineers that have looked
' at that road bed, and determined that it was never built properly to start with, that's going to be probably most
likely continue to buckle and heave and be a problem. And that's indeed what has happened. We've allowed
this tremendous amount of traffic going up and down that road and it has deteriorated. I can't think of a better
solution than to eliminate the traffic and make it a residential street which anybody who goes up and down that
road is familiar with it, would only suggest and think that it's only supposed to be a residential road. So it starts
at 5:45. The belly trucks over the last few weeks. People have called up and talked to each one of you
individually and suggested that there are other routes that those trucks could take. Big huge commercial roads
like County Road 17. They're just another half a mile, or 3/4 down 212 that they would be taking. Because we
know where they're going. They're going to improve, they're delivering fill to County Road 17 which is in
Chanhassen. I can't imagine that we wouldn't have some input by our city engineers and people that this road,
' that this work is being done in the city, that we couldn't say nicely, at least for the belly trucks, couldn't you use
an alternative road? But I guess we don't have the power to do that or the right to do it or we're not willing to
do it. I really don't know what the answer is. I don't want to monopolize this whole thing because there are
' other people here who are deeply concerned and frustrated about it and I don't know what the answers are but
I'm sure if I had the staff and the attorneys and the engineers and a relationship with MnDot and the like, I
could come up with something and there are some suggestions.
' Mayor Chmiel: Can I stop you for just one moment? As you may or may not know, the City has no real clout
to eliminate them from utilizing that road because of State Aid Road money and when that is contributed to a
particular project, they have the rights to basically use them. The 5 ton per axle is one of the things that we
' have looked at and I'm glad to see that they finally got up. Now all they have to do is to eliminate some of
that, put enough wheels on those carriers and they could possibly sneak by.
Gary Delaney: I think the reason they did it is because the road has buckled and heaved and it's in such a
disrepair, at least one side of it that it can't handle the trucks. They have to swerve out into another lane to go
7
5
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 '
,
around it. So eah I think the tried to fix the road. Di it out and they'll be right back at it. Isn't there more
Y Y g Y g
of a persuasion saying look, this is a residential street guys. You start at quarter to 6:00 here in morning and
there are residential as well as, let's face it, I've got an economic interest in this and the prestige of Chanhassen,
'
I've got to tell you, is not real great because these guests of mine, it's embarrassing and my gut just absolutely
comes apart when I have to put up with this traffic and there's no real reason to. I don't think whoever was
responsible for ultimately putting that road in ever thought it would end up being a major thoroughfare as it has.
Nobody here ever thought that. But they certainly didn't. It's an embarrassment for all concerned and we need
'
some help to figure out how to get around it. It's hard for me to understand that there isn't some way to do it.
Where there's a will there's a way and there's good people with good feelings and attitudes, it can be done. It
isn't simple right now but we certainly could.
'
Mayor Chmiel: Maybe I could have Charles make just a quick comment.
it, but
'
Gary Delaney: I want to make sure that my friends here have an opportunity. I've monopolized please,
Marcey or anyone who wanted to please step forward and talk about it.
Nick Waritz: Nick Waritz. Former Planning Commission member. Former City Council member. These are
'
relatively new faces to me because we were at the old Fire Hall. But I have to second pretty much everything
that Gary had to say. It's real frustration... and I'm retired now so I guess I'm home more than some people
might be. And the traffic, particularly the truck traffic ... the old railroad tracks. There are a lot of kids that
'
come down there on bicycles. I think these trucks, a lot of times they're one right after another going up the
hill and one right after another coming down the hill ... and this isn't necessarily year round but you never know...
A couple of years ago they were hauling fill up here to the Target site. I didn't come up here to shop at Target
'
for about a year and a half because of that. I just refused to come up and shop at this Target. And that ran
from like September on into November... This year they're hauling for CR 17 up there... Next week I come up
here they've got them all over... Next year they're going to haul up to County Road I I ... So there's got to be...
long term solution to this. I can't believe that there's not. Whether that's de- designating it a State Aid road and
'
I don't know why that couldn't be done. I think the city's making money on the fact that this is a State Aid road
and maybe you have to take that money from the coffers by raising taxes..., I don't know. On the other hand I
guess I've heard that the City or the State, even though it's a State Aid road can designate it a parkway and you
'
can't do anything about the... traffic, but by doing that you can eliminate the truck traffic... so I think there are
options out there. Something really has to be done. Like Gary said ... they marked it on both ends with 5 ton
per axle weight limit because the top of the hill is broken up so badly... The north half of the road is unusable
and so ... We're tired of the problem. We're tired of complaining. You're tired of hearing about it. I think we
'
got to get a conclusion.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thanks Nick.
'
Marcy Waritz: Can I just maybe...
1
Mayor Chmiel: If you would come up to the microphone so we can get that.
Marcy Waritz: Marcy Waritz...your former Met Council member and School Board member. At the present
time I work for a congressman in Chaska. The noise factor is really -a problem. You can't hear on the phone.
'
You can't hear your TV. You can't hear anythin Also the trail down there. The kids riding downhill.
Somebody's going to get killed, and then you'll be liable. But we all had to pay a certain amount of taxes for
that road and I would like people to respond to us. I've called Don. I've called, I've got letters that are this
6
�7
I City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
high from Scott Harr, you know saying well we're going to have the cops go down there. They do it for 10
minutes and then it starts all over. We'll call the company. I don't think the company's ever been called. I
don't know. Maybe you've called them Don but I don't know if staffs ... or anything but it's real scary. And we
need some peace and quiet.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thanks Marcy. Anyone else?
Diane Maloney: Diane Maloney. A 25 year resident of...Bluff Creek Drive and no one has mentioned the
' vibration. You know when someone plays their stereo too high and it's not necessarily the noise that really gets
your nerves. It's the vibration. Our whole house does this and remember it starts early in the morning. You
don't want to get out of bed. This is real unbearable. The vibration...
' Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
Linda Smith: Hi. My name is Linda Smith. I live at 1251 Bluff Creek. You know everybody's talking about
' the trucks and the other item that I'm really distressed about is the speeding building on that road. And I know
everybody has to be aware of that too. We do have a policeman that will come out maybe once a month and sit
at the top of the road and he does issue tickets. There's no way that he can be on that road and not issue tickets
but I do think we need more help with, I don't know how you can do it but we need more help in slowing these
people down. I have a 12 year old daughter. She is not allowed on that road. Not only because of the trucks,
but because of the speeders. Our animals too, we teach them not to go out in the road. But it's really, it's a big
problem. I would be more than willing to have a policeman sit in our driveway when they're coming down the
' hill and we've got bushes that can hide the policeman in the driveway because that's where everybody is going
to hit it the hardest is right by our driveway. By Waritz' driveway. It's a good spot because these people, I've
seen, I don't know what you call them. They're those machines that you put out on the roads and you have a
' wire running across the road and it shows people how fast they're going. That might help slow some people
down so they can see how actually fast they are coming down this road. So besides the trucks, that's another
big peeve I have on this traffic problem. It's horrible. Thanks.
t Mayor Chmiel: Good, thank you. Anyone else?
Jeff Good: Hello. My name is Jeff Good and I'm the new person on this Bluff Creek Drive. I live on the
' 1231. I'm concerned a little bit about the whole thing because the trucks and the speeding. I intend on having
a family someday. I'm a little concerned about the safety of my children. I've witnessed at least four cars go
off the road since I've been there the last year, and I've helped two out of the ditch. Down by that trail that
' goes across. And I'm just kind of a little concerned about the safety of my future children and my neighbor's
children.
Mayor Chmiel: Good, thanks Jeff. Anyone else? I've been looking into some of these. Can that road be
' designated as a parkway, eliminating trucks on that? And if we did designate it as a parkway, would we still be
able to have state funds for that road?
' Charles Folch: I don't believe so, no. The whole concept, the whole program behind the municipal state aid
system in communities is to provide financial assistance to local government agencies to be able to construct a .
network, if you will; of collector roads. Class I, Class- lI,..throughout the system which connect to county roads,
truck highways and such, that can carry the heavier loads. That's why they're designed at 9 ton. They're
1 required to be designed at 9 ton. All the other design elements associated with the road, there are specific
C
VA
u
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 '
fl
G
'
as a parkway, and being able to restrict truck traffic.
standards that they have to meet. In terms of classifying p y, g
That's a new one for me. I've never heard of that. That would go against the whole premise for the program,
providing these types of roadway systems. When that road was reconstructed back, I believe in '88. '88 -'89 is
'
about when it was completed, I believe there was about $800,000.00 to $900,000.00 of state funding that was
used to construct that project. Each year we receive probably about $1,000.00 to $1,200.00 a year in
maintenance dollars associated with that mileage for that designation. All of those dollars would basically be in
'
jeopardy and probably we would be requested some depreciated reimbursement, if you will, for the original
construction dollars back from '88 -'89, should we remove the designation off the roadway. Without question
that corridor is receiving the brunt of the truck construction, particularly construction hauling traffic from the
local gravel pit, Moon Valley. Basically there's two routes from south Chanhassen into the heart of Chanhassen.
'
It's TH 101 and Bluff Creek Drive, and it's also County Road 17, farther to the west in Chaska. Evidently the
trucking outfits don't feel comfortable making the turn, turning radiuses that you have coming up the corridor to
TH 101. Especially with the belly dumps. They don't feel they can stay on this side of the roadway, thus
'
they're making this at Bluff Creek Drive. We have made contact, approximately a month ago, with Moon
Valley. Inquiring where some of the trucks were going. Some of them are their trucks. Other's are
independent trucking companies that basically are loaded at the pit and so Moon Valley doesn't have control
over them. It's a tough question. There's no doubt about it. About a month, month and a half ago when this
'
was brought to light again in terms of speeds and the trucks, I know Scott Harr quickly acted upon getting some
enforcement out there to monitor speeds and enforce the speed limits. Scott's not here tonight. I can't tell you
how many tickets were written or how much speeding they found while they were monitoring the roadway but I
'
did get one comment back that, in terms of the trucks itself. You're probably more likely to see the cars speed
than the trucks. It's very tough to control the trucks, particularly when they're going uphill there's no really way
they can get up to that great a speed going up the hill and things like that. Coming down loaded, I guess that's
'
another question but I would think they have a tough time exceeding the speed limit down there greatly without
losing control of the vehicle. I don't know if there's an easy answer to the question. Again with only two
corridors coming up from south Chanhassen, one's a temporary trunk highway, the other's designated as a state
aid collector. There's not a whole lot of options in creating that MSA network throughout the city. And the
'
legal aspects of restricting trucks, I guess I can't answer that question but we have posted it temporarily now
with 5 ton until we can repair the soft spot that we do have in the road. And basically we have the legal
to do that until we make the necessary repairs, which we will do immediately.
'
authority
Mayor Chmiel: So you're saying that's only temporary?
'
Charles Folch: That's only temporary. Legally it's only in a temporary situation right now. We would have to
remove the State Aid designation to lower it below 9 ton, outside of the seasonal load limits.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Is there any way that we can continue to somehow pursue this with the State? I know
'
that some other areas who have had problems as such, they did remove some of those vehicles off that road, but
I don't know how they did it or how that was accepted. But they do have that as a parkway.
Charles Folch: I can certainly request a letter of response from the Metro District State Aid engineer on this
matter, letting what options he would consider available for this matter and see what he would respond with.
I've
'
Mayor Chmiel: I can appreciate the given problem that the people are having. Those are big trucks. sat
there a couple different times and they don't speed going uphill too much but they sure move when they're
going downhill. Maybe we can find out and ask Linda when we could probably utilize that driveway as well
with the squad. Police car. And if they're coming that fast, maybe somehow we can start nailing those people
fl
G
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
1
as well. I know that we've had cars up there several different times. In fact the last one I requested I think was
' sitting out by your house Marcy. And maybe if you get any given response, whatever it might be, that we
could send those, or that letter to the people that are here this evening. Or to one who spoke.
Charles Folch: If you wish, I can certainly present it to the Council and you can take a look at it first and
' decide how you want to disseminate that.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, that'd be a good idea. Watch the newspaper, the Villager. They'll state in there the date
' that that will probably come back to us. What he's saying it's true. There's no way that we can, Roger is there
any other legal ramifications that we could use?
' Roger Knutson: I'll take a look at the Moon Valley's operating under a permit from the city ... I'll pull that
permit and see what it has to say.
Mayor Chmiel: There again you're just having Moon Valley and it's indicated that other trucks do come into
' that particular area so you can't say Moon Valley, stay out of there. I think we have to look for something a
little further.
' Roger Knutson: ...depending upon how it's worded... You can also look at any concerns that those...
Councilman Senn: I don't know if this was a question for Roger.
' Marcy Waritz: Are you aware that it has been repaired once this year? ... and there's a couple other spots that
look like they're...
Councilman Senn: Charles or Roger. Who has what, I don't know what to call it. I mean powers over a state
aid road. I mean what can we do versus whatever the state has the right to veto, say aye or nay to.
' Charles Folch: Basically it's almost a partnership if you will because the local community is the one who
makes the initial request that one of their jurisdictional roads be classified under the MSA system, and then
there's a whole set of criteria that reviewed and MnDot gives approval as to whether that road meets the criteria
for a, to be classified as MSA. Then the next step that you can enter into is when the local agency decides to
' upgrade the roadway. When you upgrade it again, you need to approach MnDot with plans and specifications
that meet all design criteria for a state aid route. Otherwise MnDot will not provide the construction funding,
nor will they provide any subsequent maintenance dollars towards that improved roadway if it's not designed to
State Aid standards. So it's basically a partnership. Ultimately the local jurisdiction is bestowed with the
enforcement of all regulations along that roadway but in terms of once that request is made and that roadway is
classified as state aid, MnDot basically does have the authority to enforce that, particularly if their dollars were
' used to upgrade the roadway, that it's status be maintained accordingly. Otherwise again, if the designation's
removed, there is a process by which they would look at trying to recover dollars that they spent on the
roadway.
' Councilman Senn: Can we introduce traffic controls? I mean effectively you're doing that now with the 5, on a
temporary basis, but I mean are our powers limited to that type of a temporary?
Charles Folch: This is what we consider an emergency situation. That gives us the power to basically make
' this type of requirement on an interim basis until we can make the necessary repair. But it in no way gives us
E
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
the authority to just revoke the weight restriction. The weight limitation on that roadway to something less than
9 ton year round.
Councilman Senn: But what if we, I mean can we introduce traffic controls? Additional traffic controls to the 1
road. I mean one of the reasons that road gets most the traffic that it gets, I mean it's also the course of least
resistance. Where you have the least number of stops and everything else. If you start comparing it to CR 17 '
and the other routes so if you even the playing field a little bit, maybe some of the traffic will move. I don't
know. But right now that's your easiest route to get there. Least number of stops and everything else. You
introduce a couple stop signs, maybe you can get some discouragement towards that traffic or towards the '
trucks. I mean do we have the power to do that?
Charles Folch: Well, any type of traffic, we do have that power. Again our guidelines, with the Manual,
Uniform Traffic Control Devices that basically provide review criteria to justify any type of traffic control '
installation that the road authority may want to institute. Certainly if there's devices that can be used within
those criteria and those requirements, that's certainly available. Anything put up arbitrarily I guess, it would
certainly open us up I guess if there ever was a problem or an accident or something. It certainly opens up our '
liability standpoint. If we do something outside of the standards. Outside of the accepted practices with
uniform traffic control devices. But I'm assuming you mean something in terms of stop signs or something to
make more stops along the way or? '
Councilman Senn: Yeah. I mean if you introduce stop signs, you'd accomplish two things. One, you'd reduce
the speed of the traffic. Especially with truck traffic. And secondly, I think you'd reduce a fair amount of the
truck traffic because I think it would go, I think some of that traffic would go over to CR 17, which is now ,
avoided simply because taking this way is simply easier. Less stops. Less messing around for the big trucks.
Charles Folch: Well at this point there's only one other road intersection along Bluff Creek Drive, and that's at I
Hesse Farm Road.
Audience: And at the trail.
Councilman Senn: Well you've got the trail. '
Councilman Berquist: I'd argue the trail is arbitrary. '
Charles Folch: Yeah, the sight lines at that trail would make it very dangerous to try and put a stop sign in.
Councilman Senn: Very dangerous? Well again, don't get me wrong. I'm not sure those are issues we can '
resolve tonight but I think if we're going to go talk to the State and if we're going to look at the issue and give
a report back, I guess rather than just simply look at a solution as being an all or nothing, you know designated,
non - designated state aid, I'm just saying is there a way that we can look at injecting some additional traffic '
controls that would discourage the movement that is going on now. I think there's some ways to do that.
Again, the question is whether that needs to be analyzed further than here in a 5 minute discussion tonight.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any other discussion? '
Councilman Berquist: I've got a couple of questions... real quickly. When you had talked to Moon Valley, two
years ago did you say? A year ago? '
10
t
I City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Charles Folch: No, we contacted them earlier this spring to see what destination routes they were basically
' having for the hauling—They were going up to the CR 17 job.
Councilman Berquist: The County Road 17?
' Charles Folch: Our's, right.
Councilman Berquist: Which is a City of Chanhassen/County project.
' Charles Folch: Right.
Councilman Berquist: What was their response when you asked them to try to curtail traffic, truck traffic on
' Bluff Creek Drive?
Charles Folch: Well their response was that it was only a short, temporary thing. That they would be going
' through phases where they were providing fill to that site. To that construction job. It wasn't going to be
through the whole summer. That they would have a couple weeks here. Then it would cease while they were
continuing to do their phasing operations on the job itself and then when the contractor was going to the next
' stage in a few weeks or a month or so and if they needed to bring more aggregate into the job and they would
back out again so it would be.
Councilman Berquist: So they convinced you that it was a short term phenomena.
' Charles Folch: It wasn't a matter of convincing. They explained what was going on. Again I had no legal
authority to tell them you cannot use the road.
' Councilman Berquist: I'm not suggesting that you do. I'm just asking, they were going to a City of Chanhassen
project.
' Charles Folch: Right. And mainly my call was from an informational gathering standpoint to find out what
was happening.
Councilman Berquist: Okay. You know Mark's got the stop signs. Putting up a couple of stop signs could
resolve an issue on what is really a very nice road and shouldn't be by any shape of the imagination a major
thoroughfare for autos or trucks. If a couple stop signs could solve it, that would be great. A few of the things
' that I had scratched down were, you know if in fact we're the contract, Moon Valley is providing us services,
and the majority of the problems that result from trucks are a result of Moon Valley's trucks, we certainly would
seem to have an awful lot of pull with getting them to use TH 212, over to CR 17 and up and not use Bluff
Creek Drive, simply by the power of suggestion. Wouldn't you suppose?
Charles Folch: Again, it's not all Moon Valley I believe on this particular job. It's a private trucking company
that's using that pit as a source of material. By again the same principle, there may be a request for extra
' compensation for going out of the way. I don't know what will result on that but certainly.
Nick Waritz: If I can comment. I think they're one and the same. I think G & B Trucking... Moon Valley or at:
Moon Valley. It might be two separate things but basically they're one and the same.
I 11
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 '
Charles Folch: Okay. Well certainly we can make that request.
'
Y Y q
Councilman Berquist: I mean just simply having the conversation and saying, listen. We've got people that are '
being subjected to things that they should not have to be subjected to. We have to try and resolve it. What can
you help us with? Having those kinds of conversations generally go someplace. I even went so far as to write
myself a note, that we include within city construction specs the time designation for roads such as Bluff Creek '
that trucks would be permitted to drive on. At 5:30 in the morning, we're not going to be able to control all the
traffic, but if we can control truck traffic until 10:00 a.m. and then again after 3:00 p.m., so they've got a 5 hour
window that they could use the most convenient route. The late afternoons and the early mornings would be '
relatively noise free. I don't know if that's a viable idea or not but it's a thought.
Roger Knutson: Mayor?
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, Roger.
Roger Knutson: Just to respond to that. It's not uncommon, in big contracts anyway, to designate haul routes. '
You can say if you're going to pick up...
Councilman Berquist: Can you do that within the confines of the specifications?
Roger Knutson: Yes, the contract. For example when the State of Minnesota does a big highway project, and '
they have to go down a township road or something, the city will approach, or the state will approach the
township and work out a haul route amenable to the township ... all sorts of things. It's much easier to do all that '
stuff up front when you let the contract. Then you can...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, any other? '
Councilwoman Dockendorf: No, I guess it's been said.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. So with that, yeah Marcy. '
Marcy Waritz: When I did speak to MnDot, they did say that it could be put in a parkway so when he gets that
information back, I'd like to know what they tell him. Because they said that was a possibility and that would '
eliminate the truck traffic.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. '
Councilman Senn: They just did with 62, didn't they? Didn't they just do that with 62? Extension. The
segment from Baker Road coming over to TH 101 I think's a parkway designation.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. We'll get back to you and let you know. Thanks much. '
PUBLIC HEARING: PROPOSED TRANSFER OF CABLE TV SYSTEM TO A RESTRUCTURED TRIAX '
MIDWEST ASSOCIATES, L.P.. CONTINUATION OF HEARING. ; ..
r
Mayor Chmiel opened the public hearing.
12
1 City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Don Ashworth: Brian Grogan is present this evening. He carried out an examination on behalf of the, or for
the City of Chanhassen to review the proposed transfer and to advise the City Council as to ... legal
responsibilities but what options we may have with this proposed transfer. With that I guess I would request
that Brian provide a brief report to the City Council as to his findings.
Brian Grogan: Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council, my name is Brian Grogan. I'm an attorney with the
law firm of Moss & Barnett in Minneapolis. I understood the emphasis of Don's comments to be brief. I think
I understood that ... so I'll try to do that. The issue before you this evening is to consider whether to approve or
' deny a request from your existing cable operator, which is Triax Midwest Associates Limited Partnership. To
transfer control of your existing cable television franchise to a new company identically named but it's been
restructured. It's still Triax Midwest Associates Limited Partnership, but it has been restructured. New limited
partners and a different financial plan. Limited partners that have contributed some equity. There has been
some restructuring of the existing debt that has created essentially a new company as both your franchise and
state law contemplate and that requires City Council approval or it certainly gives you an opportunity to approve
or deny that requested transfer. We began this investigation approximately 60 days ago and we had requested
' significant information from Triax. An individual in my firm, Mr. Tim Wuestenhagen who's a CPA and
formerly with the firm accounting of Ernst & Young assisted in the financial review of this transaction. When
we looked at the legal, technical and financial qualifications of the new company for restructured Triax, legally
we're looking at whether Triax is duly organized and authorized in that business in the City of Chanhassen, in
the State of Minnesota. They are restructuring. The company however still remains duly authorized to conduct
business in Minnesota. It's a Missouri Limited Partnership but it does have the right to do business in
Minnesota. But beyond that it's changed so they can continue to operate much as they have in years past using
' your franchise. So they passed the first hurdle, which is legal qualifications. Secondly, the question of whether
they're technically qualified. Here we're looking at their technical expertise and experience in operating a cable
system. Their existing personnel and management, technicians, staff is all remaining in place. A new company
' called Intermedium Partners is joining with them and all of their systems have been merged into Triax so
collectively they might have a greater experience and expertise in operating a cable systems. The fact that
we've never objected to their technical competence, formally objected to it at this point, suggests we do not have
' reasonable grounds at this time to deny this transfer on the basis that they are not technically qualified, or
experienced to operate a cable system. So they pass rule number 2. The third hurdle would be the financial
qualification, and this is the most difficult in the analysis, particularly in an industry like cable television which
is undergoing a lot of change. In your report, I think it's been included as a part of your packet. We have a
t fairly detailed financial evaluation. On page 13 of that report. In a nutshell, what we found is that Triax, as it
existed prior to this restructuring was in very difficult financial position. Significant amounts of debt coming
due and they would have had a hard time maintaining all of their obligations, paying off their debt as they were
' configured so this was a necessary restructuring. The restructuring greatly improves their situation. It doesn't
make them the strongest company in the world, by any stretch and I've provided all of the debt... in the report so
you can review those. But it does string out their repayment schedule to a longer time period. It does give
them some needed capital which will allow them hopefully to make some improvements in their existing
' systems. Based on our review they do have sufficient financial qualifications capital to meet the obligations of
Chanhassen franchise and to meet the obligations of the systems we are requiring but we want to keep an eye
on it as well, and as part of the resolution that we put before you tonight, we've asked that they make some
' certain verifications to us in the way they have structured this debt goes forward to closing. In other words, we
don't want them to change what they're represented to us prior to closing the transaction because it is a fairly
close analysis. This is not one, this is not a transaction where we can say because of this,. they have all the
capital they could ever possibly need. They're fairly, their debt equity is ... so we want to make sure it closes as
' they've represented. Based on that, we found no reason, legally, technically or financially to deny the transfer
13
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
so we have before ou on page 19 in our rep I think probably a separate attachment of our City Manager's ,
Y P g Y P� P Y P Y
before you a resolution for your consideration. The resolution would approve the transfer based on certain
conditions, primarily with the representations being made with respect to the financing ... In addition they have to
accept the franchise... new restructured Triax would accept the franchise in the form of a document and it's also
in the report, and there's ... as well. That's the issue before you this evening. I can answer any questions.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Steve, do you have any questions?
Councilman Berquist: My knowledge about cable franchising is, well you just heard it. I have heard a couple '
of people express dissatisfaction with the level of service that they're able to achieve. I get the feeling this is
almost, this is a bookkeeping transaction from our point of view. On the other hand, from their point of view,
they were in financial difficulty. They brought in some additional equity partners. They're trying to re- establish
themselves or re- establish themselves as a viable entity short of filing perhaps. What's the, perhaps I haven't
read this but give me the upside and the downside of acting and not acting on this thing.
Brian Grogan: Actually your comments were technically correct. The upside for them is, at this point in the
industry, with the new Federal legislation that's come out and the competition we all read about in the papers
'
and the phone company's coming into business and other competitors coming in, it's in a survival of the fittest.
So you either move forward with something like this or you back away from it and sell off and get a new
business. This is their effort to move forward. Our ability as a city ... so I don't believe, while you certainly
could deny, I don't believe you have a very strong foundation to support that.
Councilman Berquist: So if you were sitting here, you would say go ahead and approve it and then begin the
,
process to find someone equally or greater qualified to serve the city?
Brian Grogan: I guess if I was sitting there, I'd be asking the same questions you're asking me, which are what
are my options? I think your options however are, just as you stated. Based on my recommendations, you do
not have a strong position to deny. However, I think your opportunity to improve the situation for ... whether it
be stronger teeth which you can enforce a certain level of compliance in the franchise or certain new services,
that comes at the time of renewal. And it's not necessarily a new bidding process where new companies come
'
in and take the highest bidder... proposal from your existing operator. But you do have, I don't want to throw
around the word leverage too loosely, but you do have the leverage to grant or deny a franchise. But it has to
be based on their ability to...
'
Councilman Berquist: One quick question. When a lease comes due, does the provider have, why after the
significant capital improvement... franchisee or the franchisor has put into the area in which they service?
Brian Grogan: If the, let me make sure I understand the question but I think what you're saying is, if the city
went through the proper procedures and Triax was not granted another franchise. Another company was
granted, what happens to the Triax's system?
'
Councilman Berquist: What happens to Triax's assets?
Brian Grogan: Well if Triax is not legally authorized to do business in town... franchised, their assets are .
essentially the equipment that they would have in town and... franchise, you would have the right to either
require their removal or perhaps allow them to abandon that equipment and allow the new company to come in
and utilize a portion of the wires. In some cases it may be more expensive to dig up wires in the ground than '
14 1
1 City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
simply abandon them, and those are questions the city could address... I will say it is a detailed procedure... that
we have to follow so it's not as simple as simply saying, Triax thank you... You do have a fairly strong
presumption but they also have... so it's a two way street but it's not quite as simple as saying the lease is up...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Colleen.
' Councilwoman Dockendorf: No. It was very clearly explained.
' Mayor Chmiel: Mark.
Councilman Senn: I take it by, I guess it's not said here directly but I take it by the way this was written, that
over 50 of this company has changed hands?
Brian Grogan: I can't speak to the percentage itself. I can say that, I'm trying to think of that percentage.
That's a fair approximate. Several of the existing owners of equity in the company are gone. They have cashed
' out. The new limited partnership, some came in and contributed cash. Some contributed assets and that's the
DD Cable Partners... There's a chart on page 10 of the report that outlines that. While they've contributed a lot
of assets, they also contributed a lot of debt... straight percentage but I think that's a fair ballpark. I can get that
' exact number for you.
Councilman Senn: Well I guess my question is based on that, both under Federal and State law that constitutes
a sale. Not a restructuring and if that constitutes a sale, it seems to me we are in the totally different position
' than we are under a restructuring. I mean we would have every right in the world at this point to renegotiate
terms and /or leverage whatever you know things we wanted to through a review process. I think that's a fairly
critical point.
' Brian Grogan: This is considered a new controlling interest. That term is defined under our State law, and our
State law is drafted so broadly that even the parent company, three levels removed from the actual operating
' entity, in some cases is simply a stock transfer of 10% can trigger a new controlling interest. Our State law's
the most aggressive in the country in that area.
Councilman Senn: No, I understand. But if there's over 50% change in ownership, by either Federal or State
' law, then it's legally constituting a sale. I mean unless something's changed in the law that I'm not aware of.
Brian Grogan: Well, I guess I take the definitions of transfer and sale under both our franchise and our State
' law to be defined by statute and to the extent the sale exists, whether it's 70 %. Whether it's 100% sale that
Triax sold off to TCI or whether Triax simply acquired some new investors, that threshold of the sale or transfer
can trigger. It was triggered under both FCC guidelines and under our State guidelines so I can't speak to
' whether it's 50% but you're correct in that it did trigger that review at both the State and Federal level. It
significantly...
Councilman Senn: Yeah. I mean that's basically. I mean I'm not really talking about FCC or laws particularly
' relating to cable. I'm talking about just general partnership law. I mean this is a partnership, as I understand
it ... or whatever. But I mean. then it's governed by that. partnership law. I guess my point is that you referenced .
that not a whole tot of dissatisfaction from the city and the system. I. think there's a reason for that. I mean
how can the city express dissatisfaction when it never knows there is dissatisfaction. I think our residents call
' the cable company and at least as far as I'm aware, I have never seen any type of a register come out of the
15
C
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 1
16 1
complaints they're getting. I
which gives us a report back as to what calls they're getting, or com
cable company h g p Y g g p
think that would be really nice to get. That question's been brought up before, you know a couple years ago.
That that's something that would be nice to see. At least in the area I live in, cable's becoming somewhat of a
joke, you know because of the quality of it. And it's talked about a great deal and there's quite a number of
people that I think are dissatisfied with it. But they don't view you know with having really a whole heck of a
lot of options. You know I've done some checking myself and basically because it has been an issue out in the
area, I mean what I've been told is Triax has pretty much the oldest equipment that exists in the industry and
also the most problem rate. And maybe that may be something that would be good to see this infusion because
maybe we'd see the benefits of some of that. But as far as the rest of the industry is concerned, that's kind of
the way Triax is looked at. From a national perspective but more importantly I think if we're at a time where
'
we could review and get some control over some of these issues, I think we should do it. I don't think we
should side step the issue simply because it's most comfortable to side step the issue. Six months ago I made a
request, or more than 6 months ago I think I made a request to this Council, Triax did an interesting one. All
'
of a sudden they simply sent a notice out to everybody saying that you know, from now on they're going to be
charged for all service on all lines and equipment effectively on the interior of their house. More or less they'd
be responsible for the line going up to the exterior and that's it. Previously they've been responsible for both.
They did that and there was absolutely no change in rates. So I mean in my mind real simply Triax just raised
t
the rates without telling anybody, or going through the proper procedure effectively to raise the rates, which
there is a procedure supposedly for. They just simply changed the service and continued to charge you know
what they charged before. I raised the issue at the time. I've never had an answer to that in over 6 months.
'
You know I think it's time to get some answers and I think it's time to you know, like I say, just get our hands
around this thing. You mentioned the upcoming renewal. Well the upcoming renewal's been a process that's
been going on a long time already. And I know the dates are approaching but I mean those dates seem to be
'
more controls way outside from us than anywhere internal here. I mean this is a date we now control, right
here, right now. So it seems to me it's one we ought to take advantage of if we can. And get some answers
and deal with some of the issues. So I guess I'd really like to better understand you know what does or doesn't
constitute a sale under whatever is special rules, because under the general rules I can't see anything that
'
prohibits it nor prohibits us at this point from renegotiating and negotiating some terms or at least go under
review of procedures.
,
Brian Grogan: Let me address what I think was three distinct questions, and if there are more, correct me... But
I want to answer a couple of them. I do want to clarify that I am an attorney representing the City, so I've been
retained by the City. I don't represent the cable company. Sometimes that gets confused. I want to make sure
,
everyone understands that. But with respect to the lines into your home. That was not unique to Triax ... when
those things occurred because the FCC, the Federal government agency put a law in place that said the lines
inside of a subscriber's home now belong, essentially belong to them. If you disconnect service, there's a couple
options that a cable operator can invoke but the reason that was put in place is they expect that U.S. West and
,
AT &T and other companies are going to be in the business of having cable service and they don't want your
home to have to have brand new wires put in so they can come up to your doorstep. Plug into the wires that
you already have in your home. That's the concept. I understand your concern that if there's a outage or a
'
problem inside of your house, and you have to call for a repair person, all of a sudden you're on the hook for a
repair bill. It's kind of like the phone company when they switched that out 10 years ago. That same confusion
existed. In fairness, that is a Federal, it was a change in a Federal reg but I think in fairness too, that should
have been explained to the City Council to the extent that if you don't know as a City Council member, chances ..
,
are your average citizen isn't going to know about that ... so I think that's certainly an issue they need to address
and clarify for you. On the customer service issues, whether you're getting an accurate read of subscriber
complaints. Fortunately that's an area where we can unilaterally demand a report, whether our franchise says
'
16 1
1 City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
anything about that or not. All we need to do is send a short written letter, that I can help the City. I have one
' in my computer. I can give a draft of that to your staff. They send it out. It requires that they comply with
probably the most aggressive set of customer service standards in any industry that I'm aware of. They have to
answer the phone within 30 seconds. They have to transfer you to a live human being 30 seconds later. It can't
be busy... tremendous set of standards and then they have to give you a quarterly report showing how they've
' complied with that, and we don't have to do anything except send out a short letter so that's something that we
can address separate and apart from whether this transfer occurred. But then let me get to the heart of your
question which is, what can we do at the time of the transfer. And even if this were a straight transfer to a
' brand new company. So we had 100% change of the control. The way local, state and federal law reads, put
them all on top of each other, you can't throw the contract away. I don't mean to, you certainly know these
issues and for the benefit of all those who may be watching, you can't just throw the franchise away and...
' provisions or start negotiating. The new company steps into the shoes of that existing company and the only
thing we can do is to review whether they're qualified. If they're qualified, legally, technically and financially,
then we don't have any choice but to allow them to step into those shoes and assume those same operating
obligations. Now some cities will take it upon themselves at this time to address non - performance issues.
' There may be an issue about buying a camera for City Hall. The language in the franchise... nobody's ever
figured out whether the company's supposed to buy it or not. This is a great time to figure out those ambiguous
provisions and get clarification about what the company's actually supposed to do, and I think that's legitimate.
' The city that says, I won't transfer unless you give me $10,000.00 for new cameras for City Hall, even though
the franchise doesn't say that, and I know that's not what you're suggesting. That would not be allowed under
State and Federal law because it's essentially harassment... So this report that I drafted for your review is
governed by those constraints that we have in our review process and it may be different than a typical
' partnership transfer that you're familiar with the sale and the transfers of partnership interests or your typical
business setting. Communication laws... tendency to put together different rules but if I can give you more
clarification, certainly I'd be happy to do that. But those are the parameters I used...
' Councilman Senn: Alright, that's it.
' Mayor Chmiel: Good. One other quick question. This would be sort of an educated guess on your part. The
amount of money that is left Triax and will come in back with the Triax Midwest Associates with these new... I
understand that there's approximately, as I read in the report, $150 million. My only concern is that if that $150
million is more than what has left the company, what can that do for rates? Could that increase?
t Brian Grogan: I think that the.
Mayor Chmiel: Because they have to pay back.
Brian Grogan: When we look at that $150 million number, we're trying to consider money leaving and equity
' coming in and that's the number we're coming up with that is new and available to them. But it's impact on
rates, the company is still governed by the FCC rate regulations. So regardless of whether that $150 million
were there or were not there, there is still a formula and a procedure that they use. My concern is that we all,
those of us in the industry know that that's gradually being ... taken away from the cities ... other units of
' government control rates so we want to make sure that there isn't a question for them to increase rates... If we
were in a position with the FCC rate regulations had disappeared, we still with the equity that they have coming
in would be sufficient so that we don't feel that there'd be that significant of .a change in rates. One of the
stipulations that they have ... before is essentially they're not going to be changing their calculations ... change the
' equipment rates based on their allocation or the purchase price. To subscriber equipment. Whenever you have
1 17
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 '
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Any other discussion? Is there anyone at this time wishing to ask any '
specific questions? As I mentioned before, this is a public hearing. If there are concerns, please come forward
and indicate those to us. If seeing none, can I have a motion to close the public hearing?
Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in '
favor and the motion carved. The public hearing was closed.
Mayor Chmiel: Is there any other concerns by Council? ,
Councilman Berquist: I have no concerns. I have a lot of respect for an organized mind and Brian has one. ,
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'd move approval of the proposed transfer.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, is there a second? '
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Resolution #96 -57: Councilwoman Dockendoif moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the proposed ,
transfer of Cable TV system to a restructured Triax Midwest Associations, L.P.. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
Councilman Senn: Can we get that letter though too? ,
Don Ashworth: Yes. I'll follow through on that. ,
AWARD OF BIDS: BONDS OF 1996.
Don Ashworth: Well we have our second organized mind and Dave MacGillivrary present with Springsted to ,
let us know what has transpired out in the financial world.
Dave MacGillivrary: Good evening Mayor, members of the Council and thank you ... I'd like your consideration '
of three resolutions. The first awarding the sale of $4,880,000.00 General Obligation Improvement Bonds,
1996B. $720,000.00 General Obligation Water Revenue Bonds, 1996C. And $4,367,500.00 General Obligation
Improvement Capital Depreciation Bonds, Series 1996C. Briefly the proceeds of these issues. The first issue, ,
improvements of '96B. Construct two roadway's and would be repaid by special assessments. The second for
revenue to finance well improvements to be paid by. revenue from the water fund. And the third issue, '96C;
provide the majority of the funding for Powers B ulevard to be paid by a combination of special assessments
and a joint powers agreement between the City and Carver County. We took competitive bids in our office... '
18 ,
L�
a transfer y ou're always going o be allocated a rice to various assets of the company and what we tried to do
Y g g P
is review and make sure that that would come down and ultimately... and we were satisfied that that was not
going to occur. I think in our resolution we have some statements to that effect. Their representations on those
'
issues ... but I can't tell you the answer in three years whether as a result of this transfer—that that's going to spike
up your rates. I think we're going to have to ... the market and if the rates do spike up, there's going to be plenty
of companies willing to buy the satellite dish, EBS dish or wireless form of technology that can still deliver our
local broadcast signals and it's going to be a viable competitor and that's going to have to hold the rates in
,
check. That's what the Federal government is banking on...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Any other discussion? Is there anyone at this time wishing to ask any '
specific questions? As I mentioned before, this is a public hearing. If there are concerns, please come forward
and indicate those to us. If seeing none, can I have a motion to close the public hearing?
Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in '
favor and the motion carved. The public hearing was closed.
Mayor Chmiel: Is there any other concerns by Council? ,
Councilman Berquist: I have no concerns. I have a lot of respect for an organized mind and Brian has one. ,
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'd move approval of the proposed transfer.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, is there a second? '
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Resolution #96 -57: Councilwoman Dockendoif moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the proposed ,
transfer of Cable TV system to a restructured Triax Midwest Associations, L.P.. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
Councilman Senn: Can we get that letter though too? ,
Don Ashworth: Yes. I'll follow through on that. ,
AWARD OF BIDS: BONDS OF 1996.
Don Ashworth: Well we have our second organized mind and Dave MacGillivrary present with Springsted to ,
let us know what has transpired out in the financial world.
Dave MacGillivrary: Good evening Mayor, members of the Council and thank you ... I'd like your consideration '
of three resolutions. The first awarding the sale of $4,880,000.00 General Obligation Improvement Bonds,
1996B. $720,000.00 General Obligation Water Revenue Bonds, 1996C. And $4,367,500.00 General Obligation
Improvement Capital Depreciation Bonds, Series 1996C. Briefly the proceeds of these issues. The first issue, ,
improvements of '96B. Construct two roadway's and would be repaid by special assessments. The second for
revenue to finance well improvements to be paid by. revenue from the water fund. And the third issue, '96C;
provide the majority of the funding for Powers B ulevard to be paid by a combination of special assessments
and a joint powers agreement between the City and Carver County. We took competitive bids in our office... '
18 ,
L�
I City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
i
L
We have the results of those. 1996B issue, the first issue. The City received... bids. It was kind ... across the
' country ... Twin Cities with accounts in Chicago and California syndicates....Norwest Investment Services at a
rate of 5.2756 %. Our estimate of about a month ago ... about 5.23. This is 4 /100th's of 1% over that. The bids
have been listed in that sheet increasing in the order of less desirability. The second issue on the second page is
the water revenue bond issue. The lowest bid was submitted by Juran & Moody at a rate of 5.1397 %. Using
our estimate... about a month ago was 5.05% so you're about 8 /100th's over that. Why there were simply two
bids here and ... $720,000.00 issue versus approximately $5 million. You lose most of the national... in the lower
dollar amount. The third issue is the capital depreciation bonds. It's certainly a different dynamic. The City
received four bids. The lowest Smith Barney out of Chicago at a rate of 5.5845 %. This is actually below our
estimate and we were able to reduce the total debt service on this issue because this issue size contained...
special type of bond and so it reduced the total debt service by about $10,000.00 as a result of the bid. I'd let
' you know something about the credit rating and then two things about two of the issues. Standard and Poor's...
City's rating of A -. Their comments were that the City is exhibiting a steady expanding tax base, one. Two, an
above average income and socio- economic levels. And three, a sound financial position and sound liquidity
levels and I think the liquidity situation relates specifically to the investments. You will note on two of these,
' in this right hand corner it has Standard and Poor's rating AAA. On the last issue and ... on the first issue, FSA
Insured. We provide an option which we believe is beneficial to the city. If you take the low bidder, has a
customer base on the line insured bond. The bonds are insured for... guaranteed debt service. That bidder, at
' their cost can buy an insurance policy and therefore tailor their bid to that specific type of request. And two
situations, the large issue. They took that option... particular customer base and we've always worked well with
the City. It's at no cost to you. All the cost... included in the, their total interest rate and their total cost and in
those two cases ... chose the bond insurance option...
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Excuse me Mr. Mayor, may I ask a question?
' Mayor Chmiel: Yep.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I don't understand how that relates to the rating.
' Dave MacGillivrary: Only in that you still have your underlying rating of A- and that's why I talked about
S &P. So that's their...
' Councilwoman Dockendorf: But because it's insured, it goes up.
Dave MacGillivrary: Because these purchasers, Norwest and Smith Barney chose the insurance option at their
' cost, the insurance carries an automatic AAA rating.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Oh, I see.
' Dave MacGillivrary: You're really rating the bond insurance.
Councilman Berquist: So then why were your estimates too low?
' Dave MacGillivrary: Too low?
Councilman Berquist: On two of them. They didn't insure the little one.
1 19
r
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
The correct terminology is hi ,
Councilman Senn. gy h. g
Councilman Berquist: No, you estimated 5.23. '
Dave MacGillivrary: It's the insurance basically. The City has AAA ... A to Al level even if it has insurance on
it. It's all the same as your normal... so the AAA says that... Interest rates, they're about the same as A to Al. '
Councilman Berquist: So just out of curiosity, when you made your original estimate as far as interest rates, did
you factor in that some of the bidders were going to include insurance packages within? '
Dave MacGillivrary: We have no idea if they're going to use insurance or not.
Don Ashworth: Mr. Mayor? ,
Mayor Chmiel: Yes.
Don Ashworth: I think if we all had a crystal ball but the report that came out last Friday on unemployment, ,
we saw some major ripple effects of that in the bond market and Dave saw a number of those issues here earlier
today where some of the estimates as they had provided to other cities from 2 -3 weeks ago because of Friday.
The rates they actually received were significantly higher than these and by later this afternoon, when these '
actually were opened, the market had become more stable. Could you respond to that?
Dave MacGillivrary: Well Friday there was employment numbers that had an ... said the economy was improving ,
and the financial market had deteriorated, including the bond market which means interest rates shot up so.
Actually on Saturday and Sunday—speech and as of 12:00 today it was a different speech and ... bond sale this
morning. People who probably didn't have an established name as Chanhassen has in the market, and their '
results are probably a quarter of a percent on 25 basis points higher than the estimates of 3 or 4 weeks ago. So
I think a combination of factors caused that not to be the case here... California and around the country
anticipated... With the rating factor and they're out there with the market issue...
Councilman Berquist: ...Issue D is Powers Boulevard, right? '
Dave MacGillivrary: Right. '
Councilman Berquist: And Issue C is Well No. 7. And Issue B is?
Dave MacGillivrary: Coulter and Lyman. '
Councilman Berquist: ...Coulter and Lyman. I just want to understand. You've got Norwest as the successful
bidder. You've got Juran & Moody for the little one, and then Smith Barney, which didn't even bid the initial, or ,
excuse me, the Coulter and Lyman. At least they're not listed
Dave MacGillivrary: ...third syndicate. On the third issue, on page 2. '
Councilwoman Dockendorf: You've got a bad page.
2 0
�
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Councilman Berquist: I've got a bad page. Oh okay. So they did bid that. Alright. So roughly you've got
' about, 41101h's of a point. No, 3 /10th's of a point... between the Coulter and the Powers. Why?
Dave MacGillivrary: Two reasons. One, they're both insured so... There's probably three reasons. One, the
Coulter, the first issue. They have bonds that mature in 1998 and 2006 so some of those are earlier maturity
' dates. Like you see with Norwest Bank, it pretty much... so you've got more bonds in the first issue that are...
The second issue, and I'll have to check the numbers. The second reason is, the capital ... and the third reason,
and I haven't done the mathematics so I don't know which way it tips but there's probably... pre- payments of
' underwriters, compensation in order to get better control over the structure of the debt ... and I haven't done the
math on this issue but normally it has ... higher discount than the initial bid.
' Councilman Berquist: So you make a little bit more money.
Dave MacGillivrary: I'm sorry?
Councilman Berquist: The non - investors. The middle people if you will make a little bit more money on that
type of issue.
Don Ashworth: Not Springsted though.
Dave MacGillivrary: The underwriter.
' Councilman Berquist: Well it wouldn't bother me.
Dave MacGillivrary: ...difference between price and the principle amount of the issue. Usually it's higher
'
than ... The capital depreciation bond, once again... paying $2,000.00 a day ... you don't get anything inbetween so
that...
Councilman Berquist: Thank you very much.
Mayor Chmiel: Colleen.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: No, my question's was about...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Mark.
' Councilman Senn: One additional. This isn't really a Dave question. I guess it's more of a Don Ashworth
question. On the Powers one I'm a little confused. Under the joint powers agreement that we did with the
' County over ... I thought we were using TIF funds to accomplish the construction of county roadways effectively
for the County. But I mean the offset was we were turning around and using our TIF dollars.
Don Ashworth: Correct.
' Councilman Senn: Okay. On that premise, why are we now doing separate general obligation improvement
bonds to fund this work. I thought that was being funded under TIF.
1 21
1
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 1
and Dave jump in here but even though it's a TIF issue they're still general obligation
,
Don Ashworth: Even, � p g ation Y g g
bonds.
Councilman Senn: I understand but. '
Dave MacGillivrary: It's an improvement versus a tax increment. The tax increment district will generate these, '
and in essence terminate except for ... after 2001. When you're going to use the money after the release ... the city
and the county share... revenues that would have been there... Because there may not be a TIF district in
existence at that time, in working with the City's bond counsel, they said it was prudent to call it an ,
improvement bond because there's also special assessments here. It's safer for the City ... call them improvement
bonds ... so it was the opinion of bond counsel and ourselves...
Councilman Senn: But I mean a key word you're using here, steadier ground. I mean that still doesn't sound ,
real.
Dave MacGillivrary: No, steady ground ... TFI district goes away, you're taking your share of what close out the '
district after it's gone.
Councilman Senn: I understand that, which effectively is extending the TIF district but I mean you know, it's ,
all word games. You're extending the TIF district. You're going to pay for it the same way you were before.
Dave MacGillivrary: Right, except...TIF revenues which the attorneys felt.
Councilman Senn: But why is that? I mean when the TIF legislation was enacted that put the sunset phase on ,
this, it said very specifically exempted.
Dave MacGillivrary: Don ... 1988? ,
Don Ashworth: I think '87 wasn't it? '
Dave MacGillivrary: I think it was 1990. This issue ... and you could only capture tax increment... Joint powers
agreement essentially that the City and the County share.
Councilman Senn: So we're going to still collect the taxes and effectively just pay these off, even though the r
legislation was set up for us not to do that. We're doing it anyway by calling these improvement bonds rather
than TIF bonds. Even though a majority of the funding is coming out of TIF. ,
Dave MacGillivrary: That's right.
Councilman Senn: Okay. ,
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any other discussion? Hearing none, is there a motion?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Do we have to do these individually or collectively? .
Don Ashworth: Either way.
22 i
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay, I will collectively award the Series 1996 B to Nor-west Investments, et. al..
' The Series 1996C to Juran & Moody. And the 1996 D to Smith Barney.
Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second?
' Councilman Berquist: I'll second.
Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to award the following 1996 bonds:
' Resolution #96 -58A: $4,880,000.00 General Obligation Improvement Bonds, Series 1996B to Norwest
Investment Services, Inc.; Resolution #96 -58B: $720,000.00 General Obligation Water Revenue Bonds, Series
1996C to Juran & Moody, Inc.; and Resolution #96 -58C: $4,367,500.00 General Obligation Improvement
Bonds, Series 1996D to Smith Barney. All voted in favor, except Councilman Senn who opposed, and the
' motion canied with a vote of 3 to 1.
AWARD OF BIDS: COULTER BOULEVARD PHASE II ROAD AND UTILITY IMPROVEMENT PROJECT
NO. 93 -26B.
Charles Folch: Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. Bids were received and opened today for the
' Coulter Boulevard phase II road and utility improvement project. A total of four bids were received. The
bidding was very close with less than a 6% spread between the high and low bid. The low bid was submitted
by Minger Construction at $1,246,059.91. This low bid is approximately $95,000.00 below the engineer's
estimate and some $87,000.00 below the original feasibility study estimate. The bids received are considered
' very favorable considering the time of year the bidding is taking place. During the bidding process for this
project staff became aware that the County Road 17/Powers Boulevard project was going to have some excess
grading material available from that job. The contractor, Busee Construction from that job is very
' accommodating and somewhat anxious to be able to find a local home for that excess material. As such
provisions were incorporated into the bid contract documents which allow for the city to be able to furnish
and /or install under separate contract a portion of the subgrade material for Coulter Boulevard improvement
' project. In comparing the cost proposal submitted by Busee compared to the unit prices as submitted by the low
bidder today, the City would save some $2.00 per yard, which equates to about $8,000.00 to $9,000.00 in
savings by contracting some of this fill under separate contract with Busee Construction. In addition, the fill
material from the County Road 17 job is a higher quality material than is typically experienced with a normal
common... Busee Construction has also indicated that they are willing to stockpile any additional material that
comes off of the County Road 17 job at no charge to the City for the Coulter Boulevard project so there may be
some additional savings... also. Staff would recommend that the Coulter Boulevard Phase II improvement project
' be awarded to Minger Construction Company at the base bid as indicated. In addition that the cost proposal
submitted from Busee Construction dated July 3, 1996 to provide and compact approximately 5,000 cubic yards
of material at $2.50 a yard, along with the necessary erosion control be approved, and there is a copy of that
Busee Construction bid proposal also attached with the supplemental staff report which was passed out tonight.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. One quick question. If this is going to go to Coulter Boulevard, how are they going to
have a haul route?
Charles Folch: We will make sure they will not use Bluff Creek Drive.
I Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
1 23
City Council. Meeting - July 8, 1996
Councilman Senn: Put it in the contract.
Mayor Chmiel: Colleen. ,
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I didn't, I misunderstood you Charles. Since we're providing some of the fill,
doesn't that mean that some of these bids should come down? '
Charles Folch: What will actually happen is we don't have to necessarily change the award tonight because the
provisions in the contract document allow us to do that at any time in the contract. So it will likely come '
through as a deduct sometime during the contract with a pay request.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay.
Mayor Chmiel: Mark.
Councilman Senn: No new questions. I
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I don't have any questions in regard to that. So I'll call for a motion.
Councilman Senn: Move approval.
'
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Second.
'
Resolution #96 -59: Councilman Senn moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to award the bids for the
Coulter Boulevard Phase 11 Road and Utility Improvement Project No. 93 -26B to Minger Construction in an
amount of $1,246,059.91. All voted in favor and the motion carved.
,
REQUEST FOR AN INTERIM USE PERMrr FOR A NURSERY; AND VARIANCES TO THE SETBACK
REQUIREMENTS; LOCATED AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF TH 101 AND TH 212, SKIP COOK
,
Kate Aanenson: As you recall, the Council did approve an amendment to the A2 District which will allow for a
retail garden center as an interim use permit. We did as a staff acknowledge that there may be some other
appropriate applications, this site being one of them. Mr. Cook, who owns the property, is the applicant. He
,
has a user on the site that would like to run a retail garden center. In researching this property it has been used
for a farmers market since 1972. There's a landscape business, as I indicated, that currently wants to use the
site. Our concern is that we make sure that it remains a landscape business and doesn't become a contractor's
yard, which is not permitted. Staff did recommend approval of the interim use permit with the conditions.
,
Planning Commission also recommended approval on June 19th. We believe that this use, with the appropriate
conditions as we've attached, is a reasonable use of the property as long as they do follow the conditions until
such time as urban services are available, and we did put that time limit on. As you know, interim use permit
,
does have a termination date. We put we will review it annually and then also at such time that MUSA
becomes available. I did hand out tonight a revised site plan. We have been working with the applicant since
the Planning Commission meeting ... site plan was too vague and the applicant has worked well with the staff to
try to fine tune that and we believe that... conditions of the staff report. We wanted to designate exactly what
certain things were and so we've got an invento"f materials that are out there. So based on that, staff is
recommending approval. I'd be happy to answer any questions that you have.
24 1
I City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
�
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Is there anyone who has concerns with regard to this proposal? If not, Steve.
' Councilman Berquist: What is that little triangular piece of land that's not designated anything? Is that the
adjoining landowner's piece?
' Kate Aanenson: This small piece of property? Right here?
Councilman Berquist: Yep.
' Kate Aanenson: I would guess you'd say the gentleman's in the salvage business. It's not part of Mr. Cook's
property. He has tried to clean that up. That certainly is an eyesore on that piece.
' Councilman Berquist: I have two other questions that are related. Condition number 9. The applicant uses
equipment, does condition number 9 allow the applicant the use of equipment such as a Bobcat for operation of
the center?
' Kate Aanenson: Yes. And he has showed where those will be located adjacent to, there's two storage units. If
you look on the revised site plan dated July 8th, which you'll have to change in your recommendations on page
9. It says site plan dated June 5th. That should be changed to July 8th. On page 9, that is.
Councilman Berquist: The only reason I bring it up is because, another condition and maybe it's condition 9. I
' didn't reference it specifically but there's something in there that says you can't store anything that could be
construed as being used for a contractor's yard.
Kate Aanenson: Right. If it relates to this piece but what we don't is for it to become a snowplowing business
' and that sort of thing. There's certain things that relate to the nursery business, which he does have. He does
have rock and he's using a Bobcat and he's shown that on the site plan that's next to the buildings. Also he
does rent part of the property that's shown as Area 3 and we did discuss that. There is a farmer that used that,
which is exempt under the, if they want to come in, they're growing pumpkins there right now. They do
occasionally park equipment so we're aware of that. What we want to do is just have an inventory so this
doesn't become something else and when a higher and better use becomes available... have a problem trying to
get this cleaned up so again we believe it's reasonable use of property.
Councilman Berquist: Are there any conditions that were of concern to Mr. Cook?
Kate Aanenson: Yes, I think he felt somewhat burdensome and he may have some comments still but I think
we arrived at a pretty good compromise on all of them. We both agreed to change some of the language that
were mutually acceptable and I think we worked well to get that resolved. I think that's why we also want to
' tie it to a site plan so we know it's out there. We've documented that so it doesn't become something else.
We've had a history on this property and we're trying to look past that and try to...
Councilman Berquist: On this property?
' Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Councilman Senn: Any nursery does.
25
[I
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Yes, an nurse in Chanhassen has a history.
'
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Ye , y nursery ry .
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Before I go on, is Mr. Cook here? ,
Skip Cook: Yes.
Mayor Chmiel: Good. Is there any specific concerns that you might have with your recommendations? 1
Skip Cook: I went over, first my name is Skip Cook. I mentioned to Steve before I came up here ... restroom, ,
I'm a little unorganized mind here. I'm from Eden Prairie. Some of the concerns that I had, I talked with John
Rask, Kate's assistant... and I think we clarified most of those. On number 1, here before is from the site plan. I
just wanted to make sure, and John assured me that... I couldn't quite hear, tell me again about the trees down
there. Is that acceptable to the plans that I gave for the trees along TH 101?
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Skip Cook: Just so I understand... garden center associated. Everything else I guess I was happy to get. One ,
question I had, and I raised again with Mr. Rask is about your owning a property and then limiting you all these
things. I mean I understand you've got to control some of it ... That should be allowed, if I understand that '
correctly. Not that I'm using it for that. It's to say all of a sudden I wanted to put something there. Pay the tax
on it. Pay the storm water. The utilities and stuff. I'm allowed to do that, is that correct?
Mayor Chmiel: Kate? '
Kate Aanenson: Sure. We did discuss this. Again, outdoor storage in the city is prohibited unless it's
completely enclosed, and we didn't want this to become a place where people would lease spaces for equipment '
for the winter. Again having it become something that we didn't intend to do. What he would like to do, he
has some personal property down there and we say it's really not related to that. We prefer that it not be able
to. That was. ,
Skip Cook: I think...2 years ago ... If you've watched that, I've tried to clean it up... The new tenant is very, in
my opinion, very ... very well organized.
Kate Aanenson: I guess our point was, there are two storage buildings on this site. r
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, right to the back side. Those were for your oil recovery or something at one time. '
Okay.
Skip Cook: Any other questions?
Mayor Chmiel: Steve, do you have any questions? ,
Councilman Berquist: No. If you're happy, I'm happy. ,
Mayor Chmiel: Colleen:
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Just a question for Kate. The land use plan is unguided. I was surprised at that. ,
26
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
r
Kate Aanenson: We had a few white spaces on the map. Yes. As part of the Bluff Creek, we had made a
' recommendation on this. Not to digress too far but it's part of that watershed plan so we do have some land use
recommendations that you'll be reviewing as that plan comes before you.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay.
Mayor Chmiel: Alright. Is there a motion?
' Councilman Berquist: I'll move approval of the interim use permit request for a retail nursery at 850 Flying
Cloud Drive, subject to the conditions contained within the staff report.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay, and with the correction within the staff recommendation of what was.
Kate Aanenson: The site plan dated July 8th.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Second.
Councilman Berquist moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to approve the interim use permit for a
wholesale and retail nursery, and a variance from the 300 foot setback requirement from a residence based on
the findings presented in the staff report and site plan dated July 8, 1996 (prepared by Dick Henning Enterprise),
and subject to the following conditions:
1. Area 4 as shown on the site plan shall not be used for the storage of equipment, materials or vehicles
associated with the garden center. Storage or display of nursery stock is permitted in Area 4.
u
2. A fifty foot setback shall be maintained from all property lines for the storage of materials, growing
ranges, and parking, except that the existing parking area and display area adjacent to Highway 212 and
Highway 101 (southeast corner of the property) may continue to be used for these purposes. No materials
or displays shall be placed within the right -of -way or obstruct the view of the traveling public. The
storage of materials over three (3) feet in height shall be prohibited in the site triangle of Highway 101
and 212.
3. Hours of operation shall be from 7:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., Monday through Friday, and 9:00 a.m. to 5:00
p.m. on Saturday and Sunday. The sale of seasonal merchandise consisting of pumpkin and Christmas
tree sales shall be permitted from 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.
4. Exterior light sources shall be shielded.
5. No outside speaker system shall be allowed.
6. The use shall terminate one year following the availability of public sewer and water service. An annual
review will be conducted to determine compliance with the attached conditions.
7. Signage shall comply with city ordinances.
27
r.
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
I I
APPROVE PLANS & SPECIFICATIONS FOR ARBORETUM BOULEVARD EXTENSION TO LAKE ANN
'
8.
Stop signs shall be erected at the intersections of the driveways and Highways 101 and 212.
g
9.
No contractors equipment shall be stored on the site with the exception of employee vehicles and
'
equipment necessary for the operation of the nursery. No other contractors equipment shall be stored on
James Knutson: Thanks Charles. Mr. Chairman, members of the Council. Thank you for the opportunity to
the property.
present information on the project on Arboretum Boulevard from Powers Boulevard, County Road 117 to the
10.
Permanent landscaping shall be provided along Highway 101. The applicant shall submit a landscaping
'
Powers Boulevard, one of the project I guess terminates at this end because we ... west to east. The Lake Ann
plan for staff review prior to consideration by the City Council.
Park entrance over here. Runs along the north side of Trunk Highway 5, across the ravine area and around the
11.
No outside storage of equipment and materials unrelated to the nursery business shall be permitted.
'
12.
The two white (32 x 40 foot) structures shall not be used for retail purposes. Storage of equipment and
the little park building here that helps control and the entrance and exit from the park. This will be improved
materials is permitted in these buildings.
,
13.
No grading of the property shall be permitted unless a grading permit is obtained from the City.
here along Trunk Highway 5. The project itself, this is Arboretum Boulevard itself will be a 36 foot wide
14.
The applicant shall work with MnDot in examining the possibility of relocating the access point on TH
,
road. 10 foot trail, and the trail itself will be, the profile along the trail will be coordinated with the adjacent
212 further to the west and providing a deceleration lane along westbound TH 212 in conjunction with
property there so that the trail will be going up and down in order to provide more of a natural pitch with the
,
the Highway 212 improvements.
All voted in favor and the motion carved.
APPROVE PLANS & SPECIFICATIONS FOR ARBORETUM BOULEVARD EXTENSION TO LAKE ANN
PARK; AUTHORIZE ADVERTISING FOR BIDS, PROJECT NO. 95 -21.
'
Charles Folch: Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. Tonight we have the project engineer, Mr.
James Knutson with Barton - Aschman here to give you an overview presentation of the primary project elements
and a list of those associated costs and the Council talk about a schedule to date. So with that I'll turn it over to
Mr. Knutson.
James Knutson: Thanks Charles. Mr. Chairman, members of the Council. Thank you for the opportunity to
present information on the project on Arboretum Boulevard from Powers Boulevard, County Road 117 to the
Lake Ann Park entrance. It's about 2,800 feet long. I have an aerial photo that's been taken of that area.
Powers Boulevard, one of the project I guess terminates at this end because we ... west to east. The Lake Ann
,
Park entrance over here. Runs along the north side of Trunk Highway 5, across the ravine area and around the
pond that has been constructed as a part of the 78th Street project. This is the photo here of the Lake Ann Park
entrance. As part of the park improvement project that's been proposed, to do something with the entrance at
'
the little park building here that helps control and the entrance and exit from the park. This will be improved
into kind of a divided roadway to provide some left turn protection for the vehicles coming out of there, and
this has been one of the focuses of the improved Arboretum Boulevard along here. It promotes safety problems
here along Trunk Highway 5. The project itself, this is Arboretum Boulevard itself will be a 36 foot wide
street, curb to curb. You'll have about a 16 foot boulevard in here and a trail. This is on the north side of the
road. 10 foot trail, and the trail itself will be, the profile along the trail will be coordinated with the adjacent
property there so that the trail will be going up and down in order to provide more of a natural pitch with the
,
existing trail... This is a typical section of the_ Lake Ann Park entrance. We'll be providing a median between
the media inbound and the outbound roadways. That median will be widened up to give a place for this
building. Either the current building or a new building that the park department will build in there. This all
,
28 1
I City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
r
coordinates again with the adjacent land to make various improvements on the entrance in that area. The upper
corner of the diagram or the section of the curb that is used along Arboretum Boulevard and going into the park
entrances, is kind of a parkway type curb and at the top of it is about ... wide rather than the typical curb that is
about 8 inches wide so it will kind of offset this street from the other street. The plan ... being proposed along
here and this is the Lake Ann Park entrance. You can see the median in here. The building at the entrance...
located in the building. Power will be provided so that is necessary by a contractor who put in that building.
We have the trail along the north side of Trunk Highway 5 is in here. We have a potential area that we can do
some berming along here between Trunk Highway 5 and Arboretum Boulevard. The second that we have in
' here is designed including this berm along here such that it fit with the future proposed Trunk Highway 5
section in here so that the work that's done in here won't get wiped out by the Trunk Highway 5 improvements.
Continuing through to the east, we're going across the ravine area right in here which requires quite a bit of fill.
There's an old 5 x 5 box culvert that was in there when the highway used to be along the section line road in
here. That's been incorporated over the years with other projects that have been done on Trunk Highway 5. As
a part of the Chanhassen storm water management plan, the proposed outlet is to be a 27 inch RCB pipe I
believe to replace that so the downstream pipe has been replaced on the Trunk Highway 5 project and we've
been ... large discharge of the water going down to the south... At the Powers Boulevard end, the two lane, two
way roadway ... 78th Street section of Powers Boulevard. There is kind of a brick work type of material around
the nose ... right in place and that will be ... we're doing a little bit to change the entrance in here... Maintain the
nose brickwork along here to reflect the treatment that... That kind of reflects the overall drainage. The drainage
coming down at the park entrance road. Drainage goes both ways along Trunk Highway 5 and we still continue
to have that. This will be accommodated at the future when Trunk Highway 5 is improved also. There's
another drainage swale that comes in here and this is just about the eastern edge of Lake Ann Park. Picking up
' drainage at this point with a storm sewer system in the street and run that into the ditch which goes out to a 36
inch culvert that's underneath Trunk Highway 5. Again this is set so that whatever happens with Trunk
Highway 5 in the future, this system can be used with a very minor modifications ... structure on the end of the
pipe and then continuing it for the trunk highway drainage. And the ravine area, this is the location for the
replacement of the 5 x 5 box culvert in the drainage system in here. Water would be ponded a little bit in here.
Ponded a little bit in here as per the plans from the storm water management plan. Into the pond created as part
of the 78th Street. Pick up the drainage that extends from Arboretum Boulevard. Go into the pond. It now is
there as is outletted into the wetland so this is part of the drainage and management control plan for this whole
area. Landscaping concepts that we have, kind of a focal point in the area of the Lake Ann Park. Trees with a
variety of species lining the trails of the road. It's in this area that we would have some of the berm that...
Arboretum Boulevard and future Trunk Highway 5 with the landscaping at this time in the areas to the north
side of this berm so when construction ... so we're coordinating this design with that. Again, continuation of the
landscape. There's already quite a bit of shrubbery and trees in the ravine area. This would just kind of
compliment that in relationship to whatever might be taken out right around the ravine to kind of replace that
and trees along the berm. We are presently showing trees lining this end that we looked at doing some
landscaping in the median but we're concerned about the sight distance of this ... as there are in the areas. The
project also will have street lighting incorporated in it at about the same spacing. Same type of lighting that's
been used in the city that has been used on McGlynn, I believe Boulevard... to the southeast there with the
Galpin Boulevard project. This was a box type of a lighting... This project also, the lighting off here will be
coordinated with what's happened in the park presently with Powers... Some of the major costs associated with
this project in terms of the grading ... the landscaping. One additional item we had in here is signal modification
in that the Powers Boulevard intersection has a signal right now that there needs to be some changes in the mast
arm, which is the. long arm that has the signal ... which. one has to be modified, and I believe there has to be an
additional... The total estimated construction cost is $700,000.00. Add in administrative, engineering, inspection
costs ... legal costs in here at a total estimate of about $900,000.00 to the project. MnDot's cooperative agreement
1 29
1
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 1
funding P project is expected for the ro'ect of up to about $660,000.00 so about 2/3 of that project has funding coming
out of MnDot. Schedule wise, we expect to advertise towards the later part of this month. Have a bid opening
in August. Start construction in the fall. The primary construction is probably going to be over the fall and fall
of '97. You have primarily grading that has to occur this fall. We lay the surcharge area that's just to the west
of Powers Boulevard so that's kind of the construction. Getting the surcharge on later this fall.... grading occur
in the spring. If the project ends up soon enough, we can do some roll over landscaping late spring of '97 or
possibly the landscaping may have to wait until the fall of '97 in order to do the seasonal work at the right time.
Have any questions?
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Steve. Do you have any questions? '
Councilman Berquist: Couple that I thought of as you were making your presentation. The existing trail that's
there now is going to be chewed up and gone?
James Knutson: Some of it will be chewed up and gone. We will actually end up with some ... will occur as
we're going across from the beach area. That perhaps... where the existing trail is right now and so the new '
roadway going along here will be taking out that trail.
Councilman Berquist: But the rest of it, you're planning on leaving there?
James Knutson: It would probably be left ... Trunk Highway 5... The other thought is that there likely could be
coming out because there'd no connection fee.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Not only that but it might be a dangerous situation.
James Knutson: I know there are, having been out there I've seen people from the south side cross TH 5 to the ,
trail and walk this way on it. But if they do, they're going to run out right here... Arboretum Boulevard.
Probably crossing Arboretum Boulevard is a safer bet than crossing TH 5 for those people who possibly
some ... could be left in. Better to have the trail along TH 5 that's being used than to have people walk on TH 5
1 guess.
Councilman Berquist: I just had a couple of other notes. You notice, your notes refer to a 4 foot wide sod strip
adjacent to the north side of the trail. ,
James Knutson: Yeah. We have about, along this side of the trail, primarily from here over to Lake Ann Park
entrance area. Between the trail and the right -of -way is about 5 feet. So we would have 4 feet of that ... but we ,
would at least sod that first 4 feet...
Councilman Berquist: So the proposal is to sod it all the way from Lake Ann to Powers?
James Knutson: Along the finished portion there. In the larger areas we could do it with seeding... '
Councilman Berquist: On the north side of the trail, there'd be nothing. The trail is going to the north of the
new road.
James Knutson: Right. Yeah, it'd be possible t seed in the median areas. Seeding being a little bit cheaper
than trying to sod everything. So we could sod the median area here and sod, or I'm sorry. We could seed in
30 1
1
I City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
' the median areas on the north side between the roadway and the trail. And we could seed to the south side
> y of
Arboretum Boulevard but on the, what is called the grading PI where we have a grade break to a level to a
slope say, we're better off putting sod in there so we don't have the erosion affect in there that you have with
seeding type... It's difficult to control the runoff if those grades.
Councilman Berquist: It's not our intent to sprinkle this, is it?
James Knutson: No. No.
' Councilman Berquist: Well I still don't understand, except from a grade point of view you're going to see the 4
feet north of the trail which is going to be adjacent to unimproved areas.
James Knutson: ...we would probably put sod.
Councilman Berquist: Am I losing something here?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well you want a little, you want some grass next to the trail. You don't want
weeds right up to the trail line.
Councilman Berquist: Well you have weeds right up to the trail line now that was at one point grass. I guess
that'd be part of my point. You know when the trail was put in from Powers...
' Councilman Senn: Which time? It's been put in a couple times.
Councilman Berquist: The before time, I don't know.
James Knutson: ...little narrow area in here. Right along side the trail. We have a right -of -way that's about 5 -6
feet from the edge of the trail and grading maybe either where it's 3:1 slope upwards or downwards or level in
there...
1 Councilman Berquist: So the rationale is because of the slope?
James Knutson: Because of the slope off to control erosion right there at that point.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: And whether it goes to weeds or not is I guess up to maintenance decision.
James Knutson: Same thing would probably be done right in here, right back to the curb so we have...
Councilman Berquist: The only other question that I had was, that was even remotely important enough to ask
was the lighting specifications that you're drawing. I mean I may have had a dream but it seems as though we
had a conversation at one point regarding new technologies in street lighting and there are long light fixtures
with bulbs out there now that cost you a few bucks more but save you energy and save you maintenance in
terms of hours of...
James Knutson: .,high pressure sodium .type of a light.. Pm not a lighting engineer so I'm not sure just what's
being used ... All I know is it's the same thing that was used...
1 31
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 1
uist: What are we figuring on
Councilman Berq i g g , the low maintenance stuff?
Charles Folch: Right. We're going with the weathering steel cortin poles with the shoebox luminar. Similar to ,
what you have in the downtown. We'll carry that similar lighting pattern. That's what's being proposed.
Councilman Berquist: Alright, thank you.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: If I'm reading these plans correct, there will no longer be an entrance directly from
Lake Ann Park to Highway 5. ,
James Knutson: In the interim, until Arboretum Boulevard is extended westward with Trunk Highway 5, we'll
have it graded such that emergency vehicles can get in and out of there but there will not be a park entrance...
Councilwoman Dockendorf: And what about the residents directly to the west? Will they have direct access?
James Knutson: That's something that was talked about. Whether they would be able to connect up to the stub
the entrance with a driveway...
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yeah my point being, it will probably be safer just to cut off their access to
Highway 5.
James Knutson: Yeah ... the extension of Arboretum Boulevard.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Right, but I'm saying until that happens. Charles. ,
Charles Folch: If I might. I believe Don may have had discussions with the Noterman's last week regarding
their status of the property. Potential offer. Do you want to?
Don Ashworth: We should really look to authorizing an appraisal process and actually start negotiations with
them because the value of that property will significantly change if the access stays off of Highway 5 versus
'
having your own personal driveway right up to your home. And I think if we move into condemnation of that
property, and we have not reached some agreement with the Noterman's in regards to price and value. We will
in effect add a lot of money to that future acquisition. We really should finalize it at this point in time. Offer
whatever amount as an inducement payment with a final cash out position at a certain point in time. They
know how much they get. And in the interim period they can go ahead and have the connection so that they're
not faced with the problem that Don, Steve and I witnessed a week ago Friday, Thursday. Something.
,
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Changing gears. The report refers to a park replacement plan. Where is that
replacement taking place? Charles?
Kate Aanenson: That was part of the EA document for the Highway 5 and what we did is when we originally
started this process several years ago, the Highway 5 corridor study. Because that money was ... with Federal
money. We had to locate, the City had to initiate another site so we qualified the site that we purchased for the
Bluff Creek Elementary. Some of the city property. So that was our qualified replacement. That was approved
by the park service. ` .. .
32 1
I City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
I
Councilwoman Dockendorf: And one last question. $200,000.00 out of a $900,000.00 project, is that typical
administration fees?
James Knutson: Probably not. With we're looking at a $700,000.00 project, the engineering fees on this
design... Construction, inspection that will be done by somebody, whether the city...
Councilwoman Dockendorf: But why is it significantly higher than other projects?
James Knutson: I don't know that it is.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Oh! Oh, you're saying it's not.
Charles Folch: 30% is a typical estimate for that factor. For the soft costs, if you will, to a project.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: So it's slightly... That's all the questions I have.
Mayor Chmiel: Any other questions?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: N9t from me.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Mark.
Councilman Senn: Let see, my Noterman question got answered. The 30% thing, the same comment as always.
I still think that's excessive. For the consultant, I just want to clarify something, a statement you made earlier
okay. As I'm looking at this plan, none of the existing trail that has been rebuilt already a couple times is going
to be re- utilized in this project, correct?
James Knutson: Will not be re...
Councilman Senn: So none of it, okay.
James Knutson: Because all of the new trails.
Councilman Senn: Is all to the north side, correct? Okay. Alright. Now this probably isn't really a consultant
question. It's more a Don Ashworth question again. How, when Jim just reviewed the timing. He said
advertising for bids in July. Opening bids in August and construction this fall. I guess I'd like to understand,
how do we accomplish that? I mean you've got a $900,000.00 project here. We have no funding for it. It's
tied to the turnback agreement on TH 101, which at least in the last discussion is somewhere between 3 to 4
years away. And the agreements we have on that are nothing more than really tentative at this point. I mean
what's the plan here? You know proceed, spend $900,000.00 and hope we get it back some day or what?
Don Ashworth: Well I would hope that it's more concrete than that, and I see Charles has his hand up. But I
' mean the assurance that he has received from the State is that, that that is in the funding program for the State
starting in 1997 and yes, we are carrying the costs up until July of 1997 where we anticipate receiving those
dollars back. Charles, would you like to add?
1
33
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Mayor Chmiel: According to Chuck Segerman, who is his boss, that Charles just mentioned. This is going to
be there. There's no question. And I don't feel uncomfortable one way or the other. I've worked on this '
particular project long enough to get this accomplished and I feel very comfortable with it. Because that's a
location that is bad enough to try to get into the park but trying to get out of the park, and going east, gets to be
a given problem. I think Steve can sort of vouch for that. The numbers of cars that were going by on Highway
5 and also the cars that were exiting onto Highway 5.
Councilman Senn: Well I understand. My questions have nothing to do with the need for the project. I mean I '
don't think anybody is disputing the need for the project. What I'm trying to add is, is it prudent for us to spend
$900,000.00 which I'm still I guess interested in finding out where we have the $900,000.00 we can spend on
the basis that we may or may not get it back in the future because there is no commitment to fund this thing,
that I've seen, other than some loose references to it in the TH 101 turnback agreement, which is non - binding. I
mean to me that doesn't seem like real good public policy to make a decision on that basis. Again, nothing to
do with, I mean the project is needed but how you getting there. And you know again, where's the funding
source?
_Don Ashwor . Before we get to a letting, .we °really anticipate receiving MnDot's' and the City Council's
approval of that MOU. And even though the commissioner won't actually sign the thing until this fall, if we
have MnDot and this City Council that have approved that document, we know of no instance where an MOU �.
34 1
That's correct Don. It's m understandi from MnDot officials that the money Charles Folch: Tha s y g Y has been put in
the cooperative agreement's account so it basically is not so much hinged on the tumback agreement as it
originally started out to be. MnDot having the City of Chanhassen enter into the Memorandum of
Understanding for that tumback has moved those dollars over to the cooperative agreement program and I'm told
those dollars are available beginning July 1 st of '97.
Councilman Senn: Just the dollars for this segment of the project so really it's not connected in any way, shape
'
or form to the TH 101 turnback?
Charles Folch: Not as it originally started out. It does not have to wait for all the parties to sign on the dotted
line. It basically moves the funds into a different account.
Councilman Senn: And do we have that, or when will we have that in writing versus an agreement that says
nobody's obligated to anything.
Charles Folch: Well, probably you're right. I mean the MOU states it's non - binding but this Fall basically it is
anticipated that the turnback agreement would be executed and so the city's, I would anticipate that our tumback
agreement with MnDot would be signed this fall.
Councilman Senn: But if this is separate funding, why can't this be signed now? As I understand what you just
said. This is not turnback funds. I mean it's coming out of separate funds. Why can't we have some
guarantees or agreements?
'
Charles Folch: Well their cooperative agreement project, there's no agreement that's necessarily, there's no
formal agreement for that. It's just basically... If you'd like, I could get a letter from Bob stating that fact. That
the dollars have been put into a cooperative agreement funding for this project. Typically on a cooperative
agreement project, there's no special agreement like a turnback agreement that's executed.
Mayor Chmiel: According to Chuck Segerman, who is his boss, that Charles just mentioned. This is going to
be there. There's no question. And I don't feel uncomfortable one way or the other. I've worked on this '
particular project long enough to get this accomplished and I feel very comfortable with it. Because that's a
location that is bad enough to try to get into the park but trying to get out of the park, and going east, gets to be
a given problem. I think Steve can sort of vouch for that. The numbers of cars that were going by on Highway
5 and also the cars that were exiting onto Highway 5.
Councilman Senn: Well I understand. My questions have nothing to do with the need for the project. I mean I '
don't think anybody is disputing the need for the project. What I'm trying to add is, is it prudent for us to spend
$900,000.00 which I'm still I guess interested in finding out where we have the $900,000.00 we can spend on
the basis that we may or may not get it back in the future because there is no commitment to fund this thing,
that I've seen, other than some loose references to it in the TH 101 turnback agreement, which is non - binding. I
mean to me that doesn't seem like real good public policy to make a decision on that basis. Again, nothing to
do with, I mean the project is needed but how you getting there. And you know again, where's the funding
source?
_Don Ashwor . Before we get to a letting, .we °really anticipate receiving MnDot's' and the City Council's
approval of that MOU. And even though the commissioner won't actually sign the thing until this fall, if we
have MnDot and this City Council that have approved that document, we know of no instance where an MOU �.
34 1
u
I City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
(I
L�
that has been drafted in that form, was ever not executed. Was not, the next step is to take the generalized
agreements as they have been presented in the MOU and to draft a final contract which is what's delaying the
thing to an anticipated fall signing. But we know of no instance where a city and MnDot have jointly entered
into a signed MOU where that has not turned into an actual contract that both parties have signed.
Councilman Senn: So you're saying the contract will be in place before fall? Before we would award bids and
proceed?
Don Ashworth: I would want to see the MOU signed by them and by you in advance of letting that contract.
Councilman Senn: But that's non - binding. I'm saying when is the contract signed?
Don Ashworth: The MOU then is sent to their legal division that turns that into a contract but in my own mind,
that is a binding contract. If you've approved it and they have, putting it into a final format is not, Charles
would you disagree? I mean do you think that there's any way that they can take and walk away from a signed
MOU?
Charles Folch: Especially something like the one we have between them is so cut and dry, there's nothing
complicated to it. There was nothing controversial in the MOU between the City and MnDot. I see no reason
that there would be any changes or that they would walk away from their commitment. And again, as it started
out, the language regarding the $660,000.00 coming out of some future program dollars for TH 101. All that
language was all originally tied into a turnback agreement, tied in to the execution of all these things. And then
' because of some of the complexities and some of the timing factors involved, MnDot said hey. We'll just pull
the money out. We'll put it in a different account. In a cooperative agreement account. It will be available
beginning the next fiscal year, which begins July 1st of '97, and it makes things much cleaner and much simpler
so in doing that, it gives me the impression that they're committed to this. And again the MOU that we have
with them is pretty straight forward. There's nothing controversial. I don't anticipate that their legal
department's going to look at that MOU and say boy, there's some real problems here. We're going out on a
limb because it's really a basic MOU. Just to allow the city to designate some previously turnback segments of
TH 101 that we talked about at the previous Council meeting and allowing us to put it on our MSA system is
all that's happened. I'd say it's pretty cut and dry.
Councilman Berquist: So if you were to make a motion approving these plans and specifications predicated on
some form of documentation from MnDot assuring payment, how would you word it?
Charles Folch: Well if you'd like, I know the documents, we actually just went through this past week and got
that MOU signed by all the City representatives that are required so that got mailed today to MnDot. If you'd
like to make a condition of your motion tonight that the contract award wait until we receive that signed MOU
back from the Commissioner of Transportation, I guess I don't necessarily have a problem with that.
Councilman Senn: But this is the same MOU that still says it's non - binding. What's the end term funding
source?
Don Ashworth: The City would be upfronting the cost on this project.
Councilman Senn: Out of what funds?
1 35
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 1
designated back to you've established the project ,
Don Ashworth: It would actually be g , ect and interim costs and y p J
interest are actually charged back to that project to insure that you're not depriving other funds of money that
they should rightly earn. And so maybe the best way to answer your question would be, other city funds that
are literally investing in this project, you could look at it that way. Until such time as we were reimbursed in
July of 1997.
Councilman Senn: And those are other city funds that are already committed for '96? I assume then.
Don Ashworth: No. These would be uncommitted. Historic trust, it's entire basis is to provide future funding. ,
You're only living off of interest earned. Same type of thing with the State Aid account. The reserves as they
apply to general utility. Each one of those accounts, the City invests all funds through an investment pool...
Councilman Senn: ...all of the funds for example out of the historic trust are already... earmarked or spent during
the coming year. The fact that we already had to borrow the million bucks or whatever on the City Hall deal,
or we're proposing to borrow a million dollars on the City Hall deal because there weren't any excess funds left.
How can you get the fund that has no excess funds and they're going up against the top up and now all of a
sudden say we've got funds earmarked for this project...?
Don Ashworth: Well the other one you were talking about was the HRA and the HRA's ability to buy the lands
in front, which they still hope that they're going to be able to do at some point in time.
Councilman Senn: But the historic trust?
Don Ashworth: You allocate those dollars as a part of the budgetary process and the only portion of those
dollars that you allocate are basically current earnings, both in terms of dollars that it's getting from other
sources, plus interest earnings. You do not touch the principle amount. So what I'm saying is, that part of that
principle amount is actually being used to pay the current costs associated with this project.
Councilman Senn: So it's not the earnings. You're using the principle portion?
Don Ashworth: Using the principle portion. '
Councilman Senn: And then this project, they would be responsible for repaying the principle portion as well as
an interest or return?
Don Ashworth: That's correct.
Councilman Senn: And at that point after then, that project, that historic fund would be out of principle.
Don Ashworth: Those groups of funds that participated in you might say, that advance. What you would do at
that point in time, now we're getting into weird scenarios. But you would isolate that potential cost to those
funds that actually could take and absorb that type of a hit. But I mean that's not going to happen.
Councilman Berquist: So back to my original 'question. Charles, if you were going to make a motion to i
approve the plans and specifications and you wanted to predicate some assurance that $660,000.00 is going to
come from MnDot, how would you word it?
36 1
1�
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Don Ashworth: May I try?
Councilman Berquist: Certainly.
Don Ashworth: That the City, conditioned upon the City receiving back a signed MOU from the State of
Minnesota which the City Attorney would review and give reasonable assurances to this City Council that that
signature binds the State into making those dollars available to the City of Chanhassen in 1997... Sound
reasonable?
t Councilman Berquist: Now, the next question. From what I'm hearing from you guys. I understand where
Mark's coming from I think. Is that, in your opinion, over kill?
Don Ashworth: Well I guess what I'm saying is we're going to have a signature from MnDot. State of
Minnesota representing MnDot, or MnDot as it represents the State of Minnesota. The Commissioner to have a
total commitment has to be signed by the Commissioner. What I'm saying is, if MnDot has put their name and
the City has gone through various commitments based on assurances from MnDot, I think they've got a real big
problem if they decide they don't want to pay. Or if the Commissioner doesn't want to sign.
Roger Knutson: The MOU says it's not legally binding... to honor those agreements but technically... practice it
is.
Councilman Berquist: Would you consider wordage asking for assurance of payment to be good and proper
practice from our perspective? ... I guess the question is, do you consider that to be, from a city's perspective, is it
in our best interest to attempt to nail down the method and timeliness of whatever payment is going to be due
us?
Don Ashworth: I guess when you start the MOU process, there's no question that there is a lot of language in
there that basically says, you know you're just sort of working through this process. As you move to the very
end, Bob is continuing to assure us. I mean that represents the language that then will go into that contract.
I've got to believe that somehow we can work with MnDot to take some of that wordage that makes it more
skeptical, or that sat in some of the earlier versions, and to turn that into a more concrete statement. To get rid
of some of the stuff that says this is solely, this is a non - binding type of an agreement.
Councilman Berquist: And then the question is, is that good practice to do that? To work towards that end?
Don Ashworth: Well that's what he told us was the normal practice. At issue is really, are we to a point in
time starting from vague discussions and final contract. Is this thing here at a point where the current document
can be modified in such a way as to basically take out some of those words that said that this is non- binding. I
guess what I would like to do, is have the City Council I guess approve this item but that in the process of
actually bringing back bids, that we have an additional report from the City Attorney that's going to outline just
how much jeopardy we have associated with this. What type of risk are we taking?
' Charles Folch: In a normal fiscal program for cooperative agreements, when we made application and received
approval that we had been approved under fiscal year. cooperative agreement project, they typically will send out
letters saying okay, your project's been approved and here's the. next step you need to go through. When the
dollars are available and your first application for your dollars, but I can certainly ask Bob to send us a letter.
37
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 1
Councilman Berquist: The just say that? I mean the call you on the hone and sa
q YJ Y Y ... Y P Y
Charles Folch: Yeah, they'll send you a schedule basically or a listing if you will, of all the projects that have
been approved for that fiscal year's cooperative. They'll show the budget, say of $5 million for this fiscal year
cooperative agreement projects. They'll say projects 1 through 8, and here's the communities they involve.
Here's what they are. Here's the different individual amounts and the $5 million total equals the $5 million
budgeted and you look at one of your line items that you've programmed in there. Your project's in there.
Councilman Berquist: So in other words, you have a letter from MnDot that shows this project as a line item
within the.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: He could get it.
Charles Folch: I will request one if you wish.
Councilman Berquist: You could get one. But up until now it's just been a phone call. I
Charles Folch: Right.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'd rather have that than legal fees explaining what our risk factor is. ,
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, I think that would probably take care of it.
Councilman Berquist: Well I was going to make the motion but insofar as Mr. Senn brought the issue to the
floor, I'd just as soon he brought it to completion.
Councilman Senn: Well, I'm not sure I can help on that because I have no, while I'm all for this project, I have
no intention of voting for it or even proceeding with it unless there is a binding commitment for funding.
Because I don't think it's prudent to be borrowing principle out of those types of funds on the bet that we're
going to get it back later without a binding commitment.
Councilman Berquist: Then make the motion predicated on a binding commitment and Council decides what
constitutes a binding commitment. '
Councilman Senn: Okay. I'll make the motion based on approve plans and specifications and authorize
advertising for bids for Project 95 -21 contingent upon there being a written binding commitment for funding
from the State of Minnesota.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, is there a second?
Councilman Berquist: At what point do I make a friendly amendment?
Mayor Chmiel: Right now.
Councilman Berquist: , I'll second it with the insertion of language relative to the City Council choosing to
define binding.
38 1
L�
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Councilman Senn: Through a separate action you mean?
Councilman Berquist: In other words, his definition of an adequate binding agreement may be different than
mine, may be different than your's. If 3 of the 5 of us choose to look at document that's binding, we approve it.
If not.
�. Councilwoman Dockendorf: So you're not saying in advance what that documentation.
Councilman Senn: So that's a separate action is what you're saying?
Councilman Berquist: Yeah. I'm saying whatever we get back from Charles from MnDot, we look at it and say
yep. We've got a deal or we want something else.
Councilman Senn: That's fine with me because that leaves in effect that action open so I'd be in favor of
it ... until we see what we've got.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: What does this do to the timing Charles?
Charles Folch: Well, again there's only a certain amount of work we can get done probably this fall due to, in
terms of the road construction. Due to some of the, part of the segment needing to go through that surcharge
process. A couple weeks delay, at the most that's probably not going to hurt us.
Don Ashworth: Excuse me. Why can't we be moving? I didn't hear this...
Councilman Senn: My motion was approval contingent upon.
Charles Folch: Sure, we can continue proceeding with the advertisement and that process, that's fine. You bet.
Don Ashworth: Then, just so you're aware. We're moving ahead with plans and specs and then we decide to
pull the plug, we do have certain commitments as far as payment for engineers and work that should be
transpiring here in the next few weeks.
Councilman Senn: I want to re -state my motion. What I said was approve plans and specifications and
authorize advertising for bids for Project No. 95 -21 contingent upon, which means this has to happen first before
we proceed and start spending money. I shouldn't say spending money. We've already spent hundreds of
thousands of dollars on the project. What I'm saying is, before we spend any more money, that we have.
Councilman Berquist: You want to tie it into the award of contract...?
Councilman Senn: I want to tie it to any further expenditure. It's what it should have been tied to in the first
place. How much have we already got into this project?
Charles Folch: Well we had about a $60,000.00 design contract for this so far. There's probably been some
ancillary soil testing and things like that.
Councilman Senn: EAW things. Wasn't that part of it too?
39
1
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 1
wa 5 corridor so that wasn't necessarily this project specifically. So '
Charles Folch: That was the Highway Y P J
probably plus or minus the $60,000.00 ballpark that we've got into it so far.
James Knutson: Those are the kinds of things that ... have to do to make plans available for MnDot to review...
Councilman Senn: I agree, and we're there. To that point. So now we should have their approval and their
money and then we go further.
Don Ashworth: But I don't see where it's that many dollars to be able to advertise to take bids. I mean why
not have this letter coming, coinciding with the timing that we're going to set up for a potential award for the
project.
Charles Folch: Don's correct. James, what would you estimate to administrate the bidding process to be over
the next 30 days?
James Knutson: Probably around $2,000.00...
Charles Folch: Print all the plans up and all that to distribute to all the contractors.
Councilman Senn: So I'd amend to include that up to $2,500.00.
Mayor Chmiel: Do you accept?
but.
Councilman Berquist: Well... start being a little bit pickiounish
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, any other discussion? We've got a motion on the floor with a second.
Councilman Berquist: So it's clear?
Mayor Chmiel: The second should be already...
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the plans and specifications for the
Arboretum Boulevard (from CSAH 17/Powers Boulevard to Lake Ann Park entrance), dated June 28, 1996 and
authorize advertisement for project bids, Project No. 95 -21, contingent upon acceptance of written binding
commitment for funding from the State of Minnesota and no more than $2,500.00 be spent on the bidding
process. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO SECTION 20 -1124, REQUIRED NUMBER OF ON -SITE
PAREING SPACES BY AMENDING SECTION (1)F, TO CHANGE THE REQUIRED NUMBER OF
ACCESSIBLE PARKING SPACES WITHIN A PARKING LOT TO MEET MINNESOTA STATE BUILDING
CODE AND STATE LAW REQUIREMENTS, FIRST READING.
Kate Aanenson: Thank you. This is really a housekeeping item. State law has changed so instead of I per 50
to 1 per 25 so all we're recommending is that we change our ordinance to say that it's consistent with the State
Building• Codes.. Therefore we'don't_ have to..change'it every time they do so just a. matter of amending the Code
as we've specified under Zoning Ordinance Section to be consistent with the State Code. I'd be happy to answer
any questions.
40 1
I City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
I
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, any questions of Kate?
Councilman Berquist: No questions of Kate.
Mayor Chmiel: Colleen?
L Councilwoman Dockendorf: No. Just a statement that I appreciate Craig Peterson's vote.
Mayor Chmiel: Mark.
Councilman Senn: No. No questions.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I'd like a motion.
Councilman Berquist: I have some comments.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay.
Councilman Berquist: I find it fascinating that a Planning Commission gentleman who avails himself of
accessible parking spaces on a regular basis, voted against this because he perceives the increase as unnecessary.
I find many Code issues to be arbitrary, unnecessary and... enforced and I also will vote against this change for
the reason Mr. Peterson of the Planning Commission states.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Colleen.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: No. I had my comment during the question period.
Mayor Chmiel: Mark.
Councilman Senn: I don't know. Steve I think said about the exact same thing I was going to say so that's kind
of where I stood on the issue too. We have a number of buildings where we have a ton of empty parking
spaces all the time, and parking problems ... as a result of it. And I think Mr. Peterson is right on 100 %.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Is there a motion?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'll move this one.
Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second? I'll second it.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Is this going to die?
Mayor Chmiel: It probably will.
' Kate Aanenson: We have to change the Code so...
Councilman Berquist: That's all I'm voting on.
41
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 1
opinion?
o
Kate Aanenson: Can we get a legal p
Councilman Berquist: You've got to start somewhere. '
Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Mayor Chmiel seconded to approve Zoning Ordinance Amendment to
Section 20 -1124. Required number of on -site paddng spaces, by amending Section (1)f., to read as follows: '
f. Accessible paddng spaces shall be in compliance with the Minnesota State Building Code and State law.
Councilwoman Dockendorf and Mayor Chmiel voted in favor. Councilman Senn and Councilman Berquist
voted in opposition. The motion failed with a tie vote of 2 to 2.
Mayor Chmiel: We'll carry this over.
Kate Aanenson: It`s the first reading so...
Mayor Chmiel: Roger?
Roger Knutson:
First reading fails. By your practice.
Mayor Chmiel:
Well it doesn't fail, it's tied.
Roger Knutson.
Right, it does not pass then.
Mayor Chmiel:
So it comes back again for Council.
Roger Knutson:
By your practice when there's not a full Council, you have in the past brought it back on the
next agenda.
Mayor Chmiel:
Well this wouldn't be until August 12th.
Kate Aanenson:
We could put it back on the 22nd.
Chmiel:
Mike be here.
j
Mayor
won't
Roger Knutson:
I would just suggest, since it's a zoning ordinance amendment, it takes a 4/5 to pass.
Mayor Chmiel:
Okay. Carry it over to the 12th. They might break down.
AN AMENDMENT TO CITY CODE SECTION 18 -61, LANDSCAPING AND TREE PRESERVATION
REQUIREMENTS BY AMENDING SECTION (A)(50) TO CLARIFY LOCATION OF FENCES ALONG
COLLECTOR AND ARTERIAL STREETS IN RELATION TO LANDSCAPE BUFFERS. ALSO AN
AMENDMENT TO SECTION 20 -1018 COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL FENCES, _AND SECTION 20-
1019, LOCATION OF FENCES: FIRST READING.
Kate Aanenson:
Thank you. Again this a clarifi� ion. We've had requests for residential permits along
collector streets,
and also we've had some interpretation questions on the commercial fences. As you know we
42
11
I City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
require buffering, a along collector roads and we've had a problem where you approved a fence along
q g> P g P Y PP g
the collector road but it just so happens they also enclosed the streetscape so therefore they've got a nice
landscaped back yard, in their back yard instead of on the streetscape where it belonged. So what the intent of
this is to allow people to put a fence on, if they're on a collector street. So it's like a double sided lot. But also
to say that the required streetscape must be on the street side, not the interior side. Obviously this sometimes is
covered in the homeowners association but not all homeowner associations are active on enforcing that. So
what we're trying to say is that, yes you can put a fence up but the streetscape belongs to the public at large, not
just that one homeowner.
Councilman Berquist: What defines the edge of that streetscape?
Kate Aanenson: When the plans come in, the streetscape plans come in as a part of the subdivision, so that's
something whoever buys that lot needs to be made aware of That they do want to put a fence up. We've
already had it happen on several subdivisions where nicely landscaped streetscape is in somebody's yard so.
Councilman Senn: Information wasn't properly passed on' and...
Kate Aanenson: I'm surprised the rest of the association didn't have a concern with that. So we'd like that
clarification. And the other one on that same amendment would be related to BV. We require a fence, a 6 foot
fence between commercial and industrial. We want to amend that to say if the City determines that there's a
need for a fence, the City may elect to use, so we have the discretion that we may elect to use berm and
vegetation so we want to have that, instead of saying it has to be 6 feet. So you have that discretion.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any questions of Kate, Steve?
1 Councilman Berquist: I wish we didn't have to get involved in this stuff. And I know this will make your life
easier but making rules for fences seems, I thought Mark was pickiounish. I read a little bit and I frankly
understand the residential part of it. I didn't really spend a lot of time reading the commercial part of it.
Kate Aanenson: I can explain. Originally we've got a mix, such as what you're going to see on the Villages
where you've actually integrated some of the uses where it doesn't apply. We have some other areas such as on
Mission Hills where we've got the commercial and really putting a fence actually to deter the look you're trying
to create and it may just be aesthetically more pleasing to try to use landscape. So we're just giving you the
option and that's really what we're accomplishing.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Aesthetics.
Councilman Senn: But you're not giving the option.
Councilman Berquist: What are the complaints going to be when people come in to apply for a fence permit, if
they do, and they read the restrictions. What are their complaints going to be? What are they going to say?
Oh my god, I can't do this. I can't do that. What are they going to say?
Kate Aanenson: Actually we have right now, you can't put anything. If you have a doubled . sided lot on a
collector, so if you have a lot, an internal.lot and you back up on Audubon, right now. the way the ordinance
reads, you can't put a 6 foot fence up there because you've got a front yard. And you can't put a fence in your
front yard. So actually we're giving you a fence. What we're saying is that you have to be behind the
r
43
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 1
Councilman Berquist: So you're saying they come in and pull a permit for a deck.
44 1
le do want to fence their back and but the way the ordinance reads, if
streetscape because we recognize people y y
you've got street, you can't have anything higher than 3 feet. 3 feet if you can, solid or 4 feet if you can see
through it, like a split rail. So actually we're giving people more discretion to use a fence. So we believe that
it's going to be well received.
Councilman Senn: If they provide our landscaping?
Kate Aanenson: No, no, no. If there's no streetscape, if there's an old subdivision along TH 101 or something
and there's no streetscape, that's not an issue. We've a lot of subdivisions that have streetscape along a collector
road.
Councilman Senn: Well but that brings me to the next most important issue. Once this is part of the ordinance,
and once anybody wants to do anything in their yard, you're going to make them conform to this. At least that's
our normal policy. And once you make them conform to this, now all of a sudden you're going to re- create a
new situation.
Kate Aanenson: This is adding flexibility. I'm not following what you're saying. Right now you can't.
Councilman Senn: Well if you're taking the ordinance and setting this as a standard, okay.
Kate Aanenson: What this?
Councilman Senn: This meaning no fences 6 feet high on the property line, abutting these roads.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: That's already the ordinance.
Councilman Senn: No.
Kate Aanenson: Yes. You can't put a fence in the front yard. We've had a lot of requests from people along
TH 101 that wanted you know, to do something to mitigate the noise but we don't allow that so we say that
doesn't make sense. So we're trying to put in a mechanism that will allow it. What we are concerned about is
people not, right now you can't put up a fence. If you have a utility line, you can't go right up to the street
anyway so you have to get an encroachment agreement. We address a lot of those. You can't do that right now
so we still allow people more privacy. This is a mechanism. This was supposed to be easy.
Councilman Senn: No, no. What I'm saying is, what about the fences that are in place? Call them non-
conforming, whatever but I mean what about those? What happens when the property owner comes in and
wants to change something? Do we require.
Kate Aanenson: I don't see how this impacts them. Oh, if they've already got the landscape on the interior?
Councilman Senn: There's a lot of these fences in existence already. I don't know how old the subdivisions are
but there's a lot of them there. What happens to those when the people try to do something?
.Kate Aanenson: They're there.
Councilman Berquist: So you're saying they come in and pull a permit for a deck.
44 1
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Councilman Senn: And somebody says you've got a non - conforming fence back here.
Councilman Berquist: You've got a non - conforming fence that includes a streetscape, move it up before we
issue a permit.
Councilman Senn: Well that's our normal way of operating.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: No, it is not.
Kate Aanenson: No.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: If someone's fence falls down and they come in, then we'll address the issue but
we're not going to go out.
Councilman Senn: What if a portion of the fence falls down?
Kate Aanenson: This came from a directive so we thought we'd add flexibility. I guess I didn't look at it as
adding complexity to the ordinance. We saw it that it gives you some discretion in commercial areas where
we're actually trying to integrate some uses. And on the other residential, we provided a mechanism for people
that do live on a collector street to now put up a fence.
Councilman Senn: I guess the real question is, do you feel this defines to the level that it should be defined, all
the situations that are going to come up as a result of this, including existing fences? I mean it gets right back
to the same old stuff about well if 50% of the building's destroyed then you know it's.
Kate Aanenson: To the best of our ability we always try to use as much foresight. Can we predict everything?
No. Do we do the best we can? Yes.
Councilman Senn: As we get into arguments huh?
Kate Aanenson: Well we can't predict everything but based on what we've been getting some complaints on, we
thought this was the best approach.
Councilman Senn: Well I mean, wood fences are a wonderful example. I mean the type you're referencing do
not have a long life to them.
Kate Aanenson: What you're looking at, when you just pulled out that part that we're amending, we didn't show
the whole fence ordinance that gives the criteria and all that. I mean we just pulled out the part that we're
amending.
Councilman Berquist: Well this is the first reading so you'll have an opportunity to argue about it again Mark.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, is there a motion?
Councilwoman ,Dockendorf: Yes: -
I Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second?
I
45
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 r
r
Councilman Berquist: Yes.
Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the first reading of a subdivision
ordinance amendment to Section 18 -61 LANDSCAPING AND TREE PRESERVATION REQUIREMENTS to
read as follows:
(5) "Landscaped buffers around the exterior of the subdivision shall be required by the city when the plat is r
contiguous with collector or arterial streets as defined in the comprehensive plan and where the plat is
adjacent to more intensive land uses. Required buffering shall consist of berms and landscape material
consisting of a mix of trees and shrubs and /or tree preservation areas. No fences will be permitted
between the required buffer and the collector arterial street. Where appropriate, the city may require
additional lot depth and area on lots containing the buffer so that it can be adequately accommodated and
the homes protected from impacts. Lot depths and areas may be increased by twenty five (25) percent
over zoning district standards. The landscape plan must be developed with the preliminary and final plat
submittals for city approval. Appropriate financial guarantees acceptable to the city shall be required.
Section 20 -1019, Location of Fences:
c. No fence will be permitted between a required landscape buffer and a collector or arterial street.
Section 20 -1018. COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL FENCES.
Fences for screening or storage purposes installed on property used for commercial or industrial uses may
have a maximum height of eight (8) feet. When commercial or industrial uses abut property used or
zoned for residential uses, a fence at least six (6) feet in height may be placed between the residential and
the commercial and industrial property if the City determines that there is a need for a fence. The City
may elect to use landscaping consisting of berms and vegetation to provide screening. If a fence is used,
said fence must be one hundred percent (100 %) opaque. Commercial or industrial fences over eight (8)
feet shall require a conditional use permit.
All voted in favor and the motion carved.
CONSIDER TRADING KLEIN HOUSE FOR MOVING THE RAILROAD DEPOT. I
Todd Gerhardt: Mr. Mayor, Honorable Council. As you may know, the City Council purchased the old Willy
Klein house located at 8405 Great Plains Boulevard. Staff tonight is proposing the City Council consider
trading the Willy Klein house to Mr. Robert Lunak for his services in moving the old railroad depot located
west of Lake Ann Park to the downtown location as designated by the City Council and HRA. Staff has
worked with Mr. Lunak in the past when he had moved the apartment building, if you may remember. That
was located on the north side of Highway 5 and the TH 101 intersection. Mr. Lunak did follow all of the terms
and conditions of our agreement with the relocation of that apartment building and staff was very impressed
with how he followed through in meeting the time frame of the relocation of that complex and it is sitting on a
permanent foundation in Carver and fully leased out. Staff has estimated the cost of moving the railroad depot
at $9,000.00. Included an estimate from Todd Christopherson and staff would recommend approval of trading
the Klein house to Mr. Lunak on the basis that the City Attorney draft an agreement outlining time frames and.
conditions. Staff can answer any questions that Council may have.
46 1
I City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Mayor Chmiel: Does anyone have any questions?
Councilman Berquist: Yep.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yeah.
I Councilman Senn: Yeah.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Line up .... Colleen.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: When did we get into the bartering business? And why did we want the place?
What did we originally purchase it for? I mean come on. Let's talk here.
Todd Gerhardt: Well we paid approximately $114,000.00 but we purchased a home on the condition to demo
the house for the relocation of TH 101. And it's vacant right now and our plans where to demo it and instead
of filling up landfills, staffs always looking at trying to recycle and Mr. Lunak has been in the recycling
business for.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: What are you doing with that can?
Todd Gerhardt: We recycle. For 25 years and he's always looking for opportunities. In the past MnDot, when
they buy homes for relocation projects, they usually give them away. You know they take public bids of
nominal dollars. Movers will take those and find empty lots. Put on them and try to re -sell them. They're in
the business. There's a big advantage for them to doing that. If you want to hire somebody to do that, it's cost
prohibitive almost for an individual to work out a deal on an equal basis. So there's a big advantage to the
movers in doing that.
Don Ashworth: Well isn't it true Todd that the way we found him to begin with was we put out a contract to
literally demolish that building and everybody else in a proposal for how much money that they wanted the City
to pay them, he's the only one who submitted a proposal for how much money he'd pay us.
Councilman Senn: If it helps, I've done this three times and all three times sold the house for approximately
$10,000.00. In each case. So I mean it's right in the ballpark with at least what I've experienced in the market
over the last I'm going to say 5 to 7 years. In terms of what's a decent house you know basically for moving.
Todd Gerhardt: This house needs a new reshingling job. It's very small. It's got two very small bedrooms.
Small closets. Small kitchen. It's real small.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: You're not a real estate agent are you?
Todd Gerhardt: Not if I was looking at buying that house. The lot is fantastic.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Alright, fine.
Mayor Chmiel:. Mark.
47
-d
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
What I'm trying to understand is okay as it relates to the people. Go back to our original
Councilman Senn ry g y p p
approval on the depot deal. I thought that all of the depot costs were going to be raised privately. I can't
remember the exact number. If it was $50,000.00- $60,000.00 or whatever but there was a number that all of
that's being raised privately. Now effectively by us doing this, we're throwing, it seems to me, $9,000.00 into
the pot right off the bat, which is different than what we did before. So now we're making a contribution of
$9,000.00. So our previous decision saying there's going to be no city money going into the $60,000.00 that
was all going to be raised privately is no longer being adhered to then.
Todd Gerhardt: You're making the basis that we can get $9,000.00 for the home. In outright selling it.
Councilman Senn: Well I mean, we have the offer. We make the $9,000.00. It seems to me we take the offer
of the $9,000.00 and then if we want to consider by a separate action whether the City should make a
contribution of $9,000.00 to the depot fund, I think then that should be a separate action we'd consider but I
think we should also look at the action we already took on it and weigh it in light of the.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: But that's not the option. I
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, he never offered $9,000.00 for the home. He is saying he will trade the home for
moving the depot and you know if we were to go out competitively and ask movers who may be interested in
buying this, now you're in a competitive bid process and now you've got to hope that you're going to get
$9,000.00 to pay for the $9,000.00 for the home.
Councilman Berquist: How did he get involved in this? Did the Centennial Committee call him and get the I
cost to move the depot?
Todd Gerhardt: I called him.
Councilman Berquist: What did he quote to move the depot?
Todd Gerhardt: I think he was around 7. And I had called him asking him, would he consider trading the
depot for the home and to see if he was interested in it.
Councilman Berquist: And he thought that that would be a good deal?
Todd Gerhardt: He thought that would be a good deal.
Councilman Berquist: Okay. So they offered you the house at $7,000.00, in essence is what it was then. You
left 2 grand on the table according to Amcon's estimate because you approached it from a standpoint of, would
you be interested in doing this ... take that house for 9 and do it for 7... Be that as it may, we've got an offer for
7 on the table.
Todd Gerhardt: Well if you competitively bid it, I mean I got a quote from Amcon for 9. I got a quote for 7.
If I competitively bid it, I may even get it for 5.
Councilman Berquist:. Well, okay. But $7,000.00's the number for that. I mean I had an almost identical
comment as Mark. I don't remember agreeing t upport the renovation or the relocation of that structure. That
was all supposed to be privately done. If in fact we're going to contemplate making a donation to the '
48 1
I City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Centennial Committee to fund the relocation of that, I think I'd like to see it done a little bit more directly as
opposed to the round about manner in which we're. I mean it sounds round about. Let's trade the guy. You
know there will be no cash out of pocket. We'll get the thing done. It's a good deal for everybody. I agree it's
a good deal for everybody. There's no doubt about it. But if in fact we are in essence going to contribute
$7,000.00 for the relocation of the depot, let's contribute $7,000.00 to the relocation of the depot instead of
trading a house for it. Trading a house for it is what happens.
Todd Gerhardt: So you would rather see me enter into a purchase agreement with Mr. Lunak for $7,000.00. He
pays us $7,000.00 and we pay him $7,000.00 for moving the depot and you can write the check over to the
Centennial Committee?
Councilman Berquist: Or something like that.
Councilman Senn: If what you said is just true. We don't pay him the $7,000.00. We may get the $7,000.00
through the Centennial Committee and they pay him the $7,000.00. I mean then we're gifting the $7,000.00 to
the Centennial.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: And what is the convoluted logic here? Honestly guys.
Councilman Berquist: The convoluted logic in my mind is that we...
Councilwoman Dockendorf: No, I understand we did but if we're deciding that now, we are going to make that
donation, I mean do you want the public.
Councilman Berquist: That's exactly the convoluted logic.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Right. So you want the public acknowledgement that we're making a contribution.
Councilman Berquist: The public acknowledgement isn't the big deal. But I think if in fact there is to give
money indirectly, money or services for the Centennial Committee to get it done, then it should be ... done. I'm
not saying there's anything shay or underhanded going on. I'm not meaning to imply that at all, but it's checks
and balances of any good accounting system. You transfer from this fund to that fund and you write, you know
you have a paperwork trail to follow it. And bartering a house and a depot.
Councilman Senn: I mean somebody Colleen could have been concerned with our earlier action of left thinking
oh gee. I'm okay with this because the City said they aren't putting any funds into it. Now, if we're going to
do a different action... I mean that same person ought to have a right to come in at that point and say gee, I'm
concerned that the City's putting money into something like that ... but again that opportunity should exist the
same way that it did before.
Councilman Berquist: When does Mr. Lunak want to move it? Anytime?
Todd Gerhardt: It's all up to us. He has no say in it. You can get the site graded.
Mayor Chmiel:.. Yeah. Why don't we just table this and look at some other options that maybe Todd can come
up with.
1 49
I I
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 1
q
Councilman Berquist: Like what? I
Mayor Chmiel: I don't know.
Councilman Berquist: You got anything in mind?
Don Ashworth: Well I have an aspect of this thing that I want to share with the City Attorney's office to see
whether or not. There's another decision that may be affected by what we do on this one, and that would be
part of my reason for asking for the tabling.
Councilman Senn: Boy. Now you've got everybody confused.
Don Ashworth: This doesn't have anything to do with the trade sale. It has totally to do with insuring that we
get monies back from the State of Minnesota that we put into this property and as I'm sitting here now, I'm
sitting here thinking that well, wait a minute. We purchased it for a certain value with a house on the thing.
Are we in fact jeopardizing our dollars by in fact moving that house off of there and now MnDot, in acquiring
it, is acquiring a blank piece of property. Does it have the same value? I mean there's some issues in here that
maybe should be further examined.
Councilman Berquist: Okay, I move to table.
Councilman Senn: Second.
Councilman Berquist moved, Councilman Senn seconded to table consideration of trading the Klein house for
moving of the railroad depot. All voted in favor and the motion carved.
CONSENT AGENDA:
Mayor Chmiel: Item I I (b). Mark you have (c) and (e).
C. APPROVAL OF HENNEPIN COUNTY COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT
SUBRECIPIENT AGREEMENT.
Councilman Senn: Okay, (c). I understand what we're doing here, which is effectively agreeing to sign the go
ahead agreement but in doing that we're earmarking another $50,000.00, which is the second $50,000.00 which
is now $100,000.00, to the creation of the new kitchen at the Senior Center. And I guess that's really even a
mis- statement because effectively we're not going to be creating a new kitchen at the Senior Center. We're
going to be creating a new kitchen in the lower level of the new City Hall expansion which at least in my mind
has received no review or discussion as it relates to the City Hall expansion because there was no such thing
ever included in it. Nor approved to go in it.
Mayor Chmiel: Kate.
Kate Aanenson: Sure, I'd be happy, to clarify. Mark's correct.. We did approve or allocate last year's money,
approximately. $50,000.00 towards the Senior Center. We said we'd have to take at least 2 to 3 years to
accomplish what we needed to do. As you know, Hennepin County is changing their funding guidelines and if
you're under 50,000, you're part of a pool. This year we're over this mark. I've been working with a CAP
50 1
1
I City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
agency trying to see how we could accomplish putting together a senior center with a kitchen facility.
1 Commercial grade for $100,000.00 and still provide the services. I committed to you before we did anything
that we would come back to you and ask to go forward with plans and specifications that this was certainly
what we intended to use the money for and we haven't changed that but our commitment was to come back to
you before we went forward and we'll be doing that probably in the next packet. Laying out to you the program
that we believe will accomplish a commercial kitchen and provide the services that we intend with that money.
And how we'd administer that. And that's the approval to go forward and begin that process. So what this
agreement here is, it's saying that you will follow the CDBG Federal requirements in using these dollars and
that's what this agreement is for.
Mayor Chmiel: Any other questions?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: That doesn't commit us to that.
Kate Aanenson: If you want to change from that, it requires a public hearing. Last year's money, you have
three years to spend the money so last year's money and this year's money we have pooled and we've indicated
that both, it was approved under those guise that we would spend it for that. If we want to change, we'd have
to go back and hold another public hearing to reallocate those dollars. Which we certainly can do if we come
back and find out we can't accomplish what we want to do, then we certainly have the opportunity to come back
and re- allocate those. But as I said, in the last go around, with this money that Hennepin County's changing
that and they're looking more towards pooling affordable housing programs so they're turning away. In the past
we've used them for ADA. That's not an acceptable use of those dollars anymore so they want to see more
housing related, but they thought this was a good program and they did approve it. But if we can't accomplish
it, we certainly can hold a hearing and change it. But it's been earmarked for that.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'll move approval of item 1(c).
Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second? I'll second.
Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Mayor Chmiel seconded to approve the Hennepin County Community
Development Block Grant Subrecipient Agreement. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
E APPROVAL OF BILLS.
Councilman Senn: Let's see, on accounts payable. I sent an earlier list over to Don which Don, or he had Pam
respond to. There's a few items that.
Mayor Chmiel: What page are you on?
Councilman Senn: Well, let's see here. I don't have my notes by page. I have them by accounts so I'm sorry.
I guess the first page 2 beyond the pink. There's a number of different page 2's and 3's and stuff in here so it
gets confusing. That's why. I went to account codes. But there's one for Boland and Associates, June
professional. services..$ 1,000.00: This is for lobbyist costs.' Lobbyist. costs for what?
' Don Ashworth: Why don't I let Kate respond to that.
51
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 r
Kate Aanenson: Sure. The City is part of the Southwest Coalition. I believe there is eight communities in '
right now. We act as king of the clearinghouse for paying that. We divide it up based on population, the cost.
And John Boland keeps track of Metro Council legislative issues for the communities so we're up to date on
issues and then as a group he responds. Such as the growth options. That sort of thing so we meet monthly
and keep each other informed of policies that affect the southwest communities. That's been in place for a
number of years.
Don Ashworth: It stated with the Lake Ann Interceptor, whatever year that was.
Kate Aanenson: 10 years probably.
Don Ashworth: That's close. Yeah, I think on my note I put 12 communities and then Kate actually looked up
the listing and it was 8.
Kate Aanenson: But as a matter of fact, it's probably going to go up to 3 more next year because of some of
the communities. Based on what's been happening at the Met Council. A couple other communities asked to
contribute and will be in next year. So they've been meeting with us and we've asked them to contribute.
Councilman Berquist: But the other communities.
Kate Aanenson: Oh absolutely. I
Councilman Berquist: We bill them and they re -pay, right? I
Kate Aanenson: Yes. I bill them at the end of the year so it's in the city's account. As of December of '95, for
all of this year so we just pay, he just sends it to the City of Chanhassen and we meet here because we're kind
of the central place.
Councilman Senn: Okay. So we're paying $1,000.00 a month and they're reimbursing their portions of.
Kate Aanenson: We already have it. I sent them the bill at the beginning of the year. I
Don Ashworth: I was incorrect on that. The larger cities pay $1,600.00 and the smaller cities pay $800.00
There's two that were paying $800.00. Chaska, Chan, Eden Prairie, etc. all pay the $1,600.00. Victoria.
Kate Aanenson: Carver County, Prior Lake.
Don Ashworth: They paid the larger. I can't remember, who was the other small?
Kate Aanenson: Actually Shakopee probably is going to join with us. Oh, Waconia.
Councilman Senn: From a policy standpoint, how are the city's positions on that development given to the
lobbyist? Is that something we bring in and.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, the` growth option's one. That was kind of one they... sure.
Councilman Senn: What are examples of some of the other current issues or issues that they're doing?
52
1
1
1
k
u
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Kate Aanenson: Well the housing assistance plan was one issue that we wanted some more time on. The
housing action plan that we had to go. The goals that we had set forward. Now we're working on the mandate
that we have to update our comprehensive plan. Where the assistance statements are. We keep track of what
everybody else is going on that.
Councilman Senn: Okay. Let's see here. This is probably your's too Kate. It has Friends of the Mississippi. I
said what's this for and what's the tie and organization of dealing with a river that has no impact on our city and
it says after a conference Diane will be attending. Which then even confused me further.
Don Ashworth: No, this organization is putting on a conference that she felt as though there's aspects of this
that she felt she would be able to benefit from. So she has registered for this. I mean it's local. I can't
remember, was it $30.00 or $60.00?
Councilman Senn: I don't have the dollar amount down.
Don Ashworth: I think it's $30.00.
Councilman Berquist: But she's not an employee.
Don Ashworth: I marked in there Diane, but actually it's Jill.
Kate Aanenson: Sorry, it's Jill.
Councilman Senn: Alright. There's some spin -offs that help us with the Mississippi River then I take it.
Kate Aanenson: Well there's some of those people have been involved in the Bluff Creek study. Friends of the
Minnesota River. Audubon Society.
Councilman Senn: Okay. Don, what's account 3285?
Don Ashworth: I have no idea. That should be in the contractual services grouping but I don't suppose
anybody has a budget with.
Councilman Senn: No, don't run and get a budget. But there's an item in there for Peters, Price and Samson
and it's termed research and draft.
Don Ashworth: Todd, do you have the information on Peters, Price and Samson. Isn't that the one that deals
with the survey? The boundary for City Hall and some of the problems that you had had, or was that.
Todd Gerhardt: That one is recorded at 3285. It would have been 4300.
Councilman Senn: Yeah, 3285 isn't the City Hall account. City Hall expansion fund.
Don Ashworth: 4300 is fees for service regardless of,what. fund. 32 is, I'll just make something up. Postage.
3285 is the Type of an expenditure. Is it a commodity, a contractual service or capital outlay and those numbers
will be the same regardless of what fund.
53
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 '
Councilman Senn: So that's coming out.
Don Ashworth: If you've got 4300, fees for service. That would be likely charged let's say in the general fund.
Roger's service and utility funds for Roger's service, right on down the line. What was my response on that
particular item? I can tell you a little bit more.
Councilman Senn: The explanation is research and draft and then your's just said survey.
Don Ashworth: Okay, that has to be associated with City Hall. We had the three lots that are existing and we
ended up with some building questions as it would apply to the building sitting on three different lots and we
felt the easiest way to take care of that was just create one PIN number and to do that we had to actually have a
survey of those three lots. Or actually draft a legal description.
Kate Aanenson: That's what it is. That's why it says draft. It's a new legal description.
Councilman Senn: Oh. Let's see here. There's one here for Quinlan Publications for renewal. I think it's back
on page, I don't know, page 12 I think it is. And so in your explanation says, it's for the fire station's Lawyer's
Monthly Newsletter. Why does the fire station need the Lawyer's Monthly Newsletter?
Don Ashworth: By the way, 3285 is a vendor number. It doesn't have anything to do with an account code.
I'm sorry, what was the next question?
Councilman Senn: The next one was Quinlan Publishing, renewal of the Lawyer's Monthly Newsletter for the
fire station.
Don Ashworth: Pam found that one. Was that what she wrote?
Councilman Senn: Yes.
Don Ashworth: Renewal of what?
Councilman Senn: Lawyer's Monthly Newsletter for the fire station. I thought we paid Roger so much money
just so we'd get that.
Roger Knutson: I've never heard of it.
Don Ashworth: I would suggest approval of the Accounts Payable with the deletion of that item pending further
review. That doesn't sound right to me.
Councilman Senn: And what is SRF consulting services related to West 78th Street?
Charles Folch: That's for inspection services that they have done the last month and a half with the completion
of the trail along CR 17, where they put the, they paved it this spring. They also put the railing on and they're
still completing some of the punch list work so that's basically for their field inspector out there on the job. He
didn't, see anything going .on, on West 78th Streesouth but that.
54
r
r
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996
Councilman Senn: So we paid to have like an outside inspector come in and inspect the project then at different
stages?
Charles Folch: Well, that's our design engineer and we also provide the contract inspection so we provide both.
Councilman Senn: Okay, but they weren't the design engineer?
Charles Folch: Yes they were.
Councilman Senn: Oh, they were on the project? Okay. Okay. No, then that was it then. Let's see here. So
back up a minute. So the Peterson, Price, Samson one, Don that is booked in then to the City Hall fund? Or
would be booked into the City Hall fund?
Don Ashworth: I doubt it. I mean it wasn't included in anything that Todd Christopherson had done. Do you
have any idea where you coded that one off to?
Todd Gerhardt: 458, City Hall expansion.
Councilman Senn: Oh, okay. So it would be part of the total project cost.
Todd Gerhardt: It was legal description.
Councilman Senn: Okay. Alright. Then I'd move approval with the exception of the Lawyer's Monthly
Newsletter.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second?
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Benluist seconded to approve the Bills with the exception of 060596 to
Quinlan Publishing Co. in the amount of $63.76. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS:
Mayor Chmiel: You have something on Council presentations.
Councilman Senn: Oh. Yeah, on Admin packet. A question. I notice that there had been, where am I trying
to find it here. There had been kind of an open house or grand opening deal for the Senior Center. I was just
wondering why Council never knew about it.
Don Ashworth: Golly, you should have all been sent an invitation. I know that.
Councilman Berquist: I wasn't. I saw it in the paper.
Councilman Senn: I talked with the other Council. Nobody got it:
Mayor Chmiel: I got one.
55
City Council Meeting - July 8, 1996 1
guess.
Senn: Well you're privileged I
Councilman y p g g
Mayor Chmiel: That's the way it goes.
Councilman Senn: And let's see here. I don't think it necessarily needs to happen tonight or in relationship to
this but as part of Don's response to me on the merit increases, I'd like Council to at least have a discussion on
that at a future date. Probably hopefully a work session rather than a regular Council meeting.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Do you have any problem with that?
Don Ashworth: No.
Councilman Senn: And auditor's comments. Now you distributed the annual, it's got such a long name.
Annual Comprehensive Financial. What about the actual auditor's comments?
Don Ashworth: As the management letter typically is distributed at the time that they kind of go through the
audit itself, which I don't know if you noticed that the memorandum in there. I'm suggesting that on the
evening of the 29th, that the auditor's start that session. That's our neat strategic planning session. Taking the
first half hour, 20 minutes, whatever of that and let the auditor's come in while we're having something to eat.
And in fact I took it one step further and I suggested that we be able to meet at 5:30 and I know that that was a
problem for you Colleen.
Councilman Senn: Because that was going to be the HRA interview originally but I see we got a memo tonight
changing that.
Don Ashworth: Yeah. We talked about the thing at a staff meeting. We said well, the Council does want to
have something to eat but if you're trying to do an interview thing and eating at the same point in time, that's
not too good. So we switched them around. Put her to I think the 12th at 7:00 and did the auditor's early on
the 29th.
Councilman Senn: So the auditor's going to bring in his comments to that work session you mean? '
Don Ashworth: Correct. 1
Councilman Senn: Okay.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, is there a motion for adjournment? I
Councilman Benquist moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor
and the motion carved. The meeting was adjoumed at 11:07 p.m.
Submitted by Don Ashworth
City Manager
Prepared by Narm Opheim
56