1g Approval of MinutesBoyle, and CounCi~ Peterspn
Kate ~ensOn Present~ ,the City Council :~i~h info.iOn ~b~ined:;ff~-di~CuSs~onsh~ld ~
pla~ to live, w°rk andPlaY '.fThfi C~ty:h~ ~n
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City Council Work Session - May 28, 2002
meetings if requested by the commissions. Councilman Peterson stated that philosophically the
commissions are there to provide an unbiased perception without political influence. Acting
Mayor Labatt stated that his experience from serving on the Public Safety Commission, which
had the mayor as a member of the commission, he liked getting their perspective but noted that
the Public Safety Commission was a less formal setting than the other commissions. He agreed
that he doesn't support having a city council liaison for each commission. The consensus was
that the City Council hold joint meetings with the commissions 2 to 3 times per year, preferably
during the work session times before regular city council meetings.
C. DISCUSSION OF TERM LIMITS FOR COMMISSIONERS.
Councilman Peterson stated he didn't feel a pressing need to address this issue at thi~ time.
Councilman Ayotte stated he was not comfortable with term limits. Councilman Boyle agreed
that he was not comfortable with term limits. That turnover would occur on it's own. Acting
Mayor Labatt stated he was in favor of term limits but didn't know what the number should be.
Todd Gerhardt stated the council could change the policy depending on the number and quality of
applicants it receives at any given time. Councihnan Peterson suggested putting a disclaimer on
the application form that the city has term limits, and that maybe term limits should be
established for city council members as well. Councilman Ayotte stated with the number of
qualified applicants the city has received lately, maybe there are other ways for people to serve
the city rather than being on commissions. Todd Gerhardt stated the direction he heard from the
council was to keep flexible.
D. CARVER COUNTY REDISTRICTING PLAN.
Julianne Ortman was present and Acting Mayor Labatt asked her to update the City Council on
the Carver County Board's action regarding redistricting. She stated that the Board adopted Plan
A, which affects the eastern part of the county, although board members seemed to favor Plan E.
She stated it is pretty clear that Plan A is advantageous to Chaska and was looking for feedback
from the Chanhassen City Council on what her course of action, if any, should be. The council
members did not support Plan A and asked what Chanhassen could do. Todd Gerhardt stated the
decision would have to be appealed through the court system and the council could ask for an
opinion from legal counsel. Councilman Boyle asked if the City of Chanhassen appeals, would
there be other cities interested in joining that appeal. Julianne Ortman stated there was one other
city that expressed interest in joining an appeal process, but not initiating one. Due to time
constraints, the City Council decided to continue discussion on this item during the regular
agenda.
Acting Mayor Labatt adjourned the work session at 7:00 p.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
i':: v:~-::: "-':Akfih~g Mayor-Labattil ;:0i'
.... ~ ~ L ~; ~ ¥:' u~:to~coine.:out;in ~front'arlC
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
and Recreation Commission. You inspired many people through your unselfish commitment to
public service. The level of enthusiasm and energy you display in your volunteer work is truly
unprecedented. The success of the Dave Huffman 5K Race is perhaps the finest example of your
work you have done for the community. Thank you for investing the time required to ensure that
this special event be delivered to the community with class and style. Mike, whatever the call
you answered. There's not a single park and rec event that you didn't help out with. Mike, we
want to thank you on behalf of the City Council. Jan Lash. Park and Rec Commissioner. You
got the longest one. Okay, Jan. On behalf of the City Council I'd like to thank you for your
extraordinary contributions while serving as a Park and Rec Commissioner, serving 12 years. 137
Okay. Serving 13 years. Many of those years as Chairperson has distinguished you from the
majority of the volunteer commissioners. Your accomplishments while serving the commissions
are too numerous to fully document. Highlights over the years include the success of the 1997
park and open space trail referendum, the construction of the recreation center, insta~llation of
over 15 miles of trails, development of the skate park, and the successful coordination of dozens
of community events. You are a single chance commission to be ever recognized by the
Minnesota Recreation and Park Association for outstanding service to your community. Jan, you
have truly left a legacy for all of Chanhassen to benefit. Thank you and congratulations. And I
should also, David Moes from the Park and Rec Commission and Debra Kind from the Planning
Commission are also recipients tonight but they were unable to attend so we'd like to
congratulate them and thank them also.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded to
approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's
recommendations:
a. Approve Settlement Agreement with Michael J. Gorra Concerning Assessments.
b. Approve Consultant Work Order for Energy Audit.
Co
Resolution ~2002-46: Approve Resolution Authorizing Conveyance of City Owned
Property.
d. Approval of Bills.
e.
Approval of Minutes: · City Council Executive Session Minutes dated May 13, 2002
· Board of Review Minutes dated May 13, 2002
City Council Minutes dated May 13, 2002
· City Council Work Session Minutes dated May 13, 2002
Receive Commission Minutes:
· Planning Commission Minutes dated May 7, 2002
f. Resolution #r2002-47: Lake Lucy Ridge, Randy Noecker:
1) Final Plat Approval
2) Approval of Plans and Specifications as amended
go
Approval of Preliminary and Final Plat, Willow Ridge 3rd Addition, Located at 6665
Mulberry Street, David Smith.
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
h. Resolution #2002-48: Resolution of Adzick Easement Matter, 1998 Trail Project.
Site Plan Review for a Two-Phase 28,980 square foot office building; Located South of
Highway 5 and East of Powers Boulevard, Powers Boulevard Office Building; Mount
Properties.
Resolution/12002-49: Consider Adoption of an Ordinance Concerning the Sale of
Fireworks, as amended with the summary publication of notice.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
LAW ENFORCEMENT & FIRE DEPARTMENT UPDATE.
Sgt. Dave Potts: Good evening councilmen. I have my monthly memo in your packet with the
sheriffs area report and community service officer highlights for April. I don't have any
comments specific to that information. Under the miscellaneous items, kind of a copy cat
situation following the September 11th World Trade Center and the anthrax scares in scattered
parts of the country. We had a little local action in that regard. A local mail handling company in
Chanhassen received a couple letters back in December, that contained a mysterious white
powder that proved to be non-harmful but nonetheless the disruption to the business and the scare
was similar to what you'd heard about on the news. But fortunately, postal authorities, the
federal postal authorities were able to investigate these incidents and finally apprehend a man
from the State of Texas as the one who sent these to this particular business. Apparently
somebody disgruntled with that particular business trying to cause that type of disruption and
scare, but a successful conclusion to that. I'm also, one day in April the sheriff s office
conducted compliance checks of establishments that sell tobacco products throughout
Chanhassen. Of all the attempted sales, or attempted purchases that were made, only one sale
was made to our underage buyer in all of Chanhassen so that was a good situation. Tobacco sales
are different than the alcohol compliance sales where the City Council takes action. The City
Council is not involved in the tobacco sales compliance. That's an independent thing through the
County, but just for information, what is done with those is, if there's more than one illegal sale
made, has a progressive fine up to $250. The fines go from $100, $200, $250, and then license
suspension. They're unable to sell tobacco products for a period of time so some information on
that. Also, senior citizen safety day. Planning is underway for Chanhassen's first Senior Citizen
Safety Day. This is going to be a joint venture with the City of Victoria. Beth Hoiseth and I are
working with senior representatives as well as Carol Wickenhauser, the Senior Center
Coordinator, and Sherry Jones, Assistant Administrator over at the City of Victoria to host this
one day event to take place this fall. The primary focus for our first year is going to be
emergency services with presentations by both Victoria and Chanhassen firefighters, Ridgeview
paramedics and sheriff office personnel, and potentially others. We're looking at some topics, or
potential topics to include home fire safety with some hands on training in the use of fire
extinguishers. Some local crime information and law enforcement, crime prevention type
information and the services that the City and County can provide, along with medical response
and services provided by paramedic ambulances serving the city of Chanhassen. We have a
potential date of October 25th, but nothing's been set on that. Chanhassen Business Watch
Information Network. This is a program that Beth has been working on for quite some time and
I've gotten involved in kind of helping to promote that program and helping with her efforts. We
designed a flyer that was in your packet. Was mailed out this time to all the Chanhassen
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
businesses that we have addresses for. It's approximately 350 businesses that received that flyer.
Looking for them to give us information on their email address that we can send them out crime
alerts, law enforcement updates, crime prevention information specific to businesses, that type of
thing. Since that mailing, an additional 45 businesses have signed up bringing our total on line
businesses to 105, so we're approaching the one-third mark with city businesses so we're pretty
encouraged by that program, even though it is pretty young at this point. And the final item I had
for council was just to mention our new communications center is now up and running. The
move from the old center to the new occurred on Tuesday, May 14th at about 2:00 in the morning.
The move was done in the early morning hours to cause the least amount of disruption in
switching our whole radio and phone system from one building to another and I'm happy to say
that everything went well. All the back-up and contingency plans and everything did not have to
be utilized as the switch was pretty painless. So our next big move will be switching from our
VHF radio system to the 800 megahertz radio system. That should take place probably in the first
part of July. We're looking at officers and dispatchers right now are going through a training on
the new radios and new systems, that type of thing. But that was the information I had for
council this evening. Any questions or comments?
Councilman Peterson: Nothing on the report. Just a general question. What was the May 24th
date on the seat belt? Was there a law change? I saw a couple of display boards across town
referencing that change. I don't know why it was...
Sgt. Dave Potts: Yeah, just a big push to get people to use their seat belts. There's been, you
know throughout the last several years there's been different programs, educational type
programs to promote. This particular program is an enforcement program trying to warn people.
Let people know that officers statewide are being asked to look at that infraction and cite that
infraction on a more regular basis. It's not something that a person can be stopped for, but if
they're stopped for speeding, not wearing a seat belt, they can receive a second ticket for that
violation as well. And that's the big push at this point and the ongoing program.
Councilman Peterson: Interesting marketing. I mean when you see it, May 24th it changes. That
makes you think that the laws changed so, it worked.
Sgt. Dave Potts: Well the more people that wear their seat belts, the better it is.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Good. Anything else?
Councilman Ayotte: Two points. The one tremendous improvement, I suspect it's just by paying
attention and maybe possibly because natural trends. The number of traffic incidents is
significantly going down. Just a comment on that point. Secondly, with the communications
equipment and with the movement to an upgraded system, what's the status of the old equipment
and is there a value to the old equipment in terms of having it as a back-up or some sort of other
application.
Sgt. Dave Potts: I don't have all the details. It's been a multi-year program. Currently some of
our divisions and squad cars are equipped with the new radios doing testing and there's been a lot
of testing but currently they're outfitted with both the old and the new radios. We're in what's
called a 30 day trial burn at this point. It's a one month period of time where everything has to
work and no glitches, no nothing before we actually make the switch. If they come up with a
glitch, which they did during our first 30 day trail period, they'll fix the glitches and then start
over again so we're in that new 30 day window that brings us out to the end of June roughly so
we' re looking for that implementation probably in July.
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Councilman Ayotte: So eventually where they'll be once that equipment that we have, will it be
obsolete and will there be an application for it?
Sgt. Dave Potts: Well the equipment we're currently using is already obsolete. I mean the
portable radios and the radios that officers have in their squad cars are not obsolete. Those are
still radios that can be programmed and that type of thing. But the radio system itself and
particularly the dispatch center is something that will probably be saved by Motorola or whoever
to be used for other people's antiquated radio systems and keep them running.
Councilman Ayotte: So we're trading it in at a value.
Sgt. Dave Potts: That I couldn't answer. I don't know all the in's and out's of the s(vitch over
with equipment and the value and that.
Councilman Ayotte: Thanks you.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Thank you David.
Sgt. Dave Potts: Thank you.
John Wolff: Councilors, Acting Mayor. This will be brief. The obsolation of the VHF system is
a function of the band width changes that the FCC is requiring and we looked at, the County
looked at staying with VHF and making those changes and the costs associated with that or going
to a more technology efficient and futuristic type system so that's really the primary reason
behind the change. For the fire service, the transition's going to be a little slower to the 800
megahertz system because of cost issues with some of the outlying county f'ire departments. All
departments will have dual systems initially but our pagers will always operate off of VHF
because there's no technology right now for 800 megahertz and the way the fire departments are
activated is via pagers so there will be some dual running of the systems, but. And there is
somewhat of an after market. We' ve purchased a lot of our radios through after market actually.
Of our portables and hand held so we hope to gain some return on that relative to the cost for the
city, and it is fairly substantial. I think we budgeted almost $150,000 next fiscal year for the fire
department transition to 800 megahertz .... the numbers will come in quite that high, and that
doesn't include any trade-in values either so.
Councilman Ayotte: Thanks.
John Wolff: As I mentioned, my report's quite brief. I want to talk about staffing first. Staffing
is at 100 percent and that's unusual for us at this time of year. Normally this is when we really
completed a recruiting and hiring processing and getting ready to roll in a new class, and those
class sizes range between 3 to 10 firefighters. This year we saw low turnover and we had a few
members that left the area, returned to the area and so the first time in 6 years we're not having a
recruit class in 2002. We'll graduate a class shortly, but we're not going to have a new class. So
that's just for your information. We'll be delaying our next recruit class probably a full year, and
we have a very significant waiting list. There is actually a lot of interest in the fire service.
Probably more interest today than there's ever been, just you know, it's been in the media a lot.
Our calls are down 10 percent, almost 15 percent quite frankly if you look at the 5 month number
but the 4 month number's down 10 percent from last year at this time, but if you look at the 3
year roiling average, we're down about 3 percent so we're kind of just in one of those cycles
where calls are down slightly. Normally we have seen a growth, anywhere between 5 and 15
City Council Meeting- May 28, 2002
percent per year but we're actually dropping off the curve a little bit. I think that has something
to do with the priority medical dispatching program that's been in place now for a couple years
where a county dispatcher's, based on criteria, select whether or not they'll send out fire, police
and ambulance on a medical call. Our medical calls are down as relative to the whole number.
They used to be about 65 percent. Now they' re about 50 percent of the whole, and if we look at
the intensity of calls, our intensity of calls is up. We're not going out on a lot of the simple 911
type medical emergencies. More of the advance life support type calls so. The resource is being
used much more efficiently. That was the goal of the program and I am reporting that it' s
definitely working. Just got our operating numbers for this year recently. The numbers are in
good shape. We're about 30 percent of our operating budget, which is kind of where we would
expect to be. We're on target for capital. We've got approximately about $75,000 in projected
capital and we' ve been working with the city manager moving forward with those expenditures.
There' s been a significant amount of planning going into the PGA event in Chaska, and our
department's been involved. We've been assisting the County and the Chaska Fire Department
with some of the components of the response. When you bring 50,000 plus people into the area
for a week, and really kind of a high profile, high media event, you have to kind of plan for all
contingencies and we've been involved with that. We've had 2 major house fires this year. We
average about 1 a year, so hopefully that's, we've covered a couple years there. We had a third
house fire just this weekend. The result of a lightning strike that was quickly noticed by a
neighbor. The home was unoccupied and we were able to put that out quite quickly. We're not
counting that in as a major call. That's all I had for this report. Any questions for the fire
department?
Acting Mayor Labatt: No. Thanks John.
PUBLIC HEARING: PRESENTATION OF CITY CENTER COMMONS MASTER
PLAN & PHASE I PLAN.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, City Council members. I'd like to introduce Damon Farber from Damon
Farber and Associates, landscape architects for the City Center Commons. This is a public
hearing. I've asked Damon to go through the different concepts, master plan Phase I proposed
plan and some of the elements that would be included in the overall development of City Center
Commons. And Damon Farber.
Damon Farber: Good evening. I'd like to talk about the process to begin with that we've gone
through to arrive at the master plan. One of the things that I want to emphasize is how much the
public, the City has been a part of this process. We have gone through a number of reviews and
meetings, including a number of get togethers with the City Center Commons Design Committee,
which is a group of individuals of about 12 people or so, who are truly representative of both
staff, library and the community at large... We've also met with city staff certainly. We have
met with the public on one occasion and tonight we'll do that again if there are people who are
interested in commenting and adding input. We've met with the Park and Rec Commission, and
we've had...review by parks and rec staff. One of the things that we have done is had a plan that
has truly evolved over time. Some of you may remember the initial concept. We began about 6
months ago I think and they were extremely...very formal approach. We've really...not the
direction in which we've ended up. We are going to talk tonight about the master plan. We're
also going to talk about Phase I of the master plan. And then we're going to talk about cost
which is where a number of you are right now I think in that little handout. There's always the
danger of handing out on paper. But while you're looking at that I should mention that the cost
has dropped significantly from when we first started, and that again is because of the amount of
really positive in a public/private parmership, a collaborative effort and I think as a result of that
City Council Meeting- May 28, 2002
we're ending up with a much better product. City Center Commons has taken on the character of
a passive park. One that has a design that is fairly traditional, and one that really promote
gathering. One that truly promotes gathering of people of all ages. We want to be sure that this is
a space that welcomes youth. We want to make sure it's a space that welcomes adults at the same
time. We have the seniors who abut this in their new center. We have the new public library that
is an integral part of this open space, and we have the businesses throughout the city of
Chanhassen and visitors who we think are going to be able to use this space in a myriad of ways.
We want to make sure that this is truly a civic space. One that will invite farmers markets. One
that will have art shows. One that will allow for sitting on the lawn. We want the space to
promote and used by the library. Outdoor reading and so on. We want to make sure too that this
space is a year round space that's easily maintainable and one that does reflect the Minnesota four
seasons, so we'll be celebrating that through the introduction of various plant materials and the
use of indigenous materials. So I'd like to talk about the master plan a little bit, and'then what
we'll do is go to the Phase I of that plan. And then we'll talk a little bit about schedule. What we
hope to receive tonight is your approval of the master plan and Phase I and we'd like to get your
consideration to proceed into the next stage of design so that we can have this project completed
by the middle of October, beginning of November, 2003. We' ve been trying to do everything we
can to coordinate it with the library but the reality is that the library and the park are not going to
be done at exactly the same time. So it's an opportunity for people within the community to
actually see the construction of a building and then see how the site actually fits around it after
that. The master plan, as you can see, on the image on the wall, or in your packet, really does
have a number of front doors and that was the intent. The intent was that it act as a front- door to
City Hall. That it act as a front door to the library. And that it act as a front door and a welcome
mat to the community at large and for that reason in the southeast corner, which is at the
intersection down here. See right off 78t~. Kerber is over to your right. Market' s here. In this
corner we' ve opened up the site in an effort to visually invite people into the project. The
concept began actually when we were working on the library and we started thinking about how
the site might best be used. And what kind of concept we can begin to import on the site that
would reflect the library and the city hall, and began to realize that it had everything to do with
activities. A variety of activities. A variety of, and the scale, we wanted to create and have
created I think a sense of intimacy within a safe and secure environment. So if you look at th~
library building itself, you'll see that it has a number of projects onto West 78th. And so we felt,
why don't we bring that concept into the site so we created a number of outdoor rooms that
reflect the rooms within the library. The site itself drops dramatically actually, although you
wouldn't think so. You'd think it was flat, but it really isn't. There's a significant drop in grade
from the lower level entrance to the building to the corner here, and so what we have, we have
accommodated that change in grade by the introduction of a series of terraces and steps working
their way up along this paved area which is intended to be paved concrete and interlocking
pavers. It's very warm, natural, porous material. And we also have a ramp that brings visitors
and users up to the upper level along the south part of the site. In addition there is a walkway that
brings people from West 78th, up into the site and vice versa. The planting within the scheme is
very, very organic. It has winter interest. It has color in the spring. It will be interesting in the
fall and the summer as well. We are looking at creating a focal point, a fountain in the area just at
the southeast coruer of this building. And then a series of what we call vasques, which are groves
of trees at either end of this large open area. In your packet, and on here we're calling that a
flexible plaza space, and it truly is intended to be used in a number of different ways .... maple
theme. We have a large lawn area that gives us a significant amount of public open space. We
have a series of lime stone walls with a birch grove, that help to pick up the grade in that area. In
other words we' ve got now a great big slope. What we want to do is create a little bit of a terrace
in there effect so we can begin to save a few of the trees that currently exist on the site. But we're
not sure if we're going to be able to do that, but there are 3 large maples that are very close to the
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
existing building which will come down. The building will come down. Hopefully the maples
will stay. We'll see, and a large...there as well. We have a series of benches and seating
throughout the area with art around them because this is a master plan. We've got, identified
sculpture at a few key points along with a fountain. We have a significant, large circular area at
the southeast comer of Market and West 78th where the holiday tree will be located. Where there
will be gatherings. There's a series of small walls there where people can sit. We've been very
careful to select materials and walls for example and in the paving that deter Rollerbladers and
skate boarders. At the same time this area, we want to welcome everybody onto the site so we've
made it as user friendly as possible, and incorporated furnishings that are vandal resistant,
although not vandal proof. There's lighting through here, and the variety of spaces is what we
think is really going to be very exciting. The Phase I, and this is just the master plan. I want to
emphasize. Phase I is, does incorporate all of those elements. It does incorporate all of the
paving so that this entire area will be paved in Phase I with the pavers. There will b~ a series of
walls that go in in Phase I. We'll have a majority of the trees, with evergreen and coniferous
going in. The evergreen trees, the coniferous trees are primarily up along that area between the
parking lot and the green terraced area. We have lighting going in. All of the infrastructure is
going in in Phase I, and that' s really important because if nothing were done after Phase I, and we
hope that's not the case, but if nothing were done, there would be a completed park. There would
be a space that was usable from day one, to which we could add landscaping in the future. And
that's really what a master plan does. The master plan is the guideline or the framework within
which ongoing decisions can be made so we've identified in the cost which are on your last page,
each of those items that's going in in the initial phase. The cost of the initial phase is $521,000.
The master plan, which is the second, included in the second part, is an additional $400,000 so
bringing the total up to $958,000 for the overall plan. For the lighting, the paving, site
furnishings, all utilities, signage, and so on. So the initial plan, the Phase I which we begin, we
hope, in construction next May. A little more than a year from now. Little less than a year from
now actually, will include a finished product that will be used, usable and available November
15th, and I've got a schedule here which I'd like to hand out. It has a correction on it and the
computer is only as good as the person who puts the information in and I put the information in,
so you'll see that I crossed something out. It doesn't alter anything but it does speak to the
schedule that we believe is, and it's very feasible and very much one we can deal with. What it
suggests is that if we were to get permission to proceed this evening, we could have all of our
drawings done and ready for competitive bidding by the beginning of December. We could then
take bids in January. Award of bid in February and be under construction in May. That's sort of
a streamline version. More specifically within the next design phase there are 3 distinct design
stages. What we call schematic design, design the building which is a refinement of that, and
then development of working drawings... Each one will take approximately 6 to 8 weeks, which
allows us to be ready to go to bid next May. What I'd like to do is now open this up, if you have
any questions regarding the master plan for Phase I and I'll try to answer them as best I can.
Councilman Peterson: Just to confirm, we have a total of 958.
Damon Farber: That's correct.
Councilman Peterson: That's for the master plan. That's inclusive of Phase I.
Damon Farber: Absolutely. That's correct.
Councilman Peterson: Okay.
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Damon Farber: The breakdown is Phase I is $521,200, and an additional $437,000 if we were to
complete the master plan in today's dollars.
Councilman Peterson: Yep. The only other question that I have for you Damon, and I was one of
the people that sat through this and watching it evolve and de-evolve as the case may be, and we
told you to sharpen your pencil.
Damon Farber: Yes.
Councilman Peterson: If I gave you the magic wand and said, you know you sharpened it too
much, what do you think you'd add back, just off the top of your head that you think it would, if
there is something you'd add back.
Damon Farber: I think what I would suggest be added back into the project, if not now at a later
date, is perhaps some additional furnishings in terms of seating. I think perhaps some more
lighting in terms of accent lighting rather than strictly the pedestrian scale lighting. I think too
that more art and sculpture within the space could make it a unique space and that's really what I
would hope that we could accomplish. That this City Center Commons becomes something
different than a lot of other public civic spaces. That people will come here because of the
library. Because of the City Hall, but also because of the landscape of the site itself. So the
introduction of public art would be I think a significant enhancement to the project. We have all
the basics covered and I think that that view is critical. Is that we say when we open this in May
of 2003, we will have, I'm sorry in November, 2003. We'll have a finished product and that's the
most important thing.
Councilman Peterson: To get it to that next level, what you cited is, we're not talking about a lot
more additional money to bring it to that next level of perception or reality. A couple hundred
thousand maybe.
Damon Farber: I think probably a couple hundred thousand. Art is a very, you know you can't
say. I mean it could be a $25,000 piece. It could be donated by somebody within the community.
It could be a $75,000 piece. It really depends. I think as you'll remember Craig, there were some
limestone benches that we had scattered that came out of this fountain, has water shooting up and
that is in Phase I. What's not in Phase I are the pieces of limestone within that fountain that help
to really bring it to that next level. We'll have a finished product. We won't have standing water
in the fountain. The water goes up and it goes down and vanishes into the ground for all practical
purposes, and then re-circulates. At least that's the perception. And we had a series of lime stone
elements, which I thought were fairly important because the intent was, that on those lime stone
seat units, we would begin to inscribe a text that began to reference back to the history of the
community or the library somehow, but that's not a necessity. I think it's a nicety. It's a nice
enhancement. I think we could get more planting in here too in terms of color. In terms of
flowers. I think that would be positive now. Todd in the Parks Department may be able to help
us out over time by adding some things as we go along.
Councilman Peterson: Thanks.
Councilman Ayotte: One of the things that I believe is missing is the recurring costs associated
with the building material that you selected. There's a cost to, for preventive maintenance and
there's a cost for minor repair. Also there may be some non-recurring costs like certain types of
equipment that may be required to clear snow. Certain types of equipment to maintain what
you've called out. Does that scenario bear true?
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Damon Farber: You're correct that what you don't see here is a budget line item for ongoing
maintenance. We've talked about that. We've talked about the reality of having to plan for it and
staff maintenance here. So while we don't have it down here as a cost, we have talked about that.
In terms of the equipment that' s needed, we've been very conservative about the selection of the
materials. The brick pavers are a very, very good, strong material. They can be maintained either
with a bobcat. With a snowblower. With a broom. It's really, it's a Minnesota tolerant material.
The lime stone walls are the same way. They don't, they won't require unconditional
maintenance. Once they're in, if they are damaged somehow, you're right. They'll need to be
maintained but that would happen with any material, so we' ve been very careful to design this in
a way that has reduced maintenance but it will have some.
Councilman Ayotte: And is it, if you were to alter the bill of material, could you predictably alter
the recurring costs, plus or minus?
Damon Farber: I don't believe it would make any difference whatsoever.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay, so by us voting on this this evening, give you the go ahead, we would
not blindly provide to you, or not provide to you. Blindly affect tax base one way or the other.
We will affect tax base.
Damon Farber: The selection of the material, it' s the construction material itself will not impact
the way it's maintained.
Councilman Ayotte: I understand that but because we had this being presented as an advantage
and enhancement to the city, it probably would be prudent to have an understanding of what the
recurrent costs are going to be to maintain this so that the citizens know the costs implication of
such an event.
Damon Farber: We can gather that information and put it together. I don't know what it is off
hand.
Councilman Ayotte: I understand that but I think it's fair to let residents -know what that is.
Damon Farber: Yeah.
Councilman Ayotte: Thank you.
Councilman Boyle: Done?
Councilman Ayotte: Yeah.
Councilman Boyle: In regard to the fountain that you're referring to recently, would it be more
economically feasibly, economically wise to do the whole thing at one time rather than in two
phases, referring to the stone work.
Damon Farber: I'd like to say yes, but I think that we can install the mechanical equipment and
the basic fountain in the first phase, and add the other elements later on. I don't think one
precludes the other so...
Councilman Boyle: So there would be no financial advantage to that?
10
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Damon Farber: Not a significant one.
Todd Gerhardt: Damon, the stone wasn't into a foundation?
Damon Farber: No, it is not into a footing or.
Todd Gerhardt: It's just a heavy piece of stone that would sit on top of the ground.
Damon Farber: That's right.
Todd Gerhardt: And you may attach it with some type of L bracket or something.
Damon Farber: It will be attached but it will not be on a footing.
Councilman Boyle: I'm not a landscape expert but it seems like there's a lot of trees and shrubs
here.
Damon Farber: Oh I wish we had a lot more.
Councihnan Boyle: I bet you do.
Damon Farber: You know I think, there's always a danger in showing the tree. In showing a
plan like this from above and showing the tree at a mature size. The green trees for example are
shown at about 30 feet across. It's a long time before they'll get to that. We don't have a lot of
planting. And in Phase I we have much less than what you see here. But I don't, I think that
because we're talking about a major civic space, I think it's the appropriate amount of plant
material. I think when you realize what you have on the site, at least I did, that it's a very large
piece of land. It's 400,000 square feet just in this area. So by the time you add the concourse or
that plaza between the library and City Hall, we really aren't looking at spacing of trees, or
number of trees that's extraordinary.
Councilman Boyle: Okay, thank you.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Damon, these trees on the west side of the building where the parking's
going to be, what's the plan? Are they going to try and relocate them?
Damon Farber: We're not going to be relocating them and using them in the park. I think there
are some trees, Todd correct me if I'm wrong but they were going to be relocating some trees and
re-using them but not the vast majority of them. A number of them have been in long enough that
transplanting them is not a practical thing. The quaking aspen for example are not really a tree
that one has to save. So I think that some of those will be history as that project...
Acting Mayor Labatt: How about that large cherry tree? Or that flowering crab tree, whatever it
is.
Todd Hoffman: There's a few smaller ones in front that can be moved. Unfortunately the
majority of the trees that were tagged for removal, and we did locate, utility locates and many of
them are over the top of utility lines and fiber optic...so we'll be moving about 5 trees is all. The
rest will be cut down.
Acting Mayor Labatt: And including these big tr~es on the.
11
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Todd Gerhardt: The ash trees go.
Acting Mayor Labatt: The ash trees go.
Damon Farber: Yes, and that is unfortunate because there's a maturity about them and a regal
character but they're just not, they didn't work with the library.
Acting Mayor Labatt: There's no way to relocate those?
Todd Gerhardt: No.
Todd Hoffman: No other projects around...
Acting Mayor Labatt: And, I'm going to hold up this sheet here. Lines 23 through 28. All the
trees. What I need to ~know is, when you say like line 23. One coniferous holiday tree, and it's
1,500 bucks and granted it's in the Phase II or whatever. Right now it is. What are we talking for
a tree height or diameter? I need to know for every one of those lines I quoted you.
Damon Farber: Pardon me?
Acting Mayor Labatt: For lines 23 to 28, I'd like to know what you're planning for tree height
for the coniferous trees.
Damon Farber: The holiday tree is as large a tree as we can get. So it could conceivably be 20-
25 feet. It's a large tree. The intent is to have that be an established tree. We'd like to root prune
it prior to moving it. The other trees, the regular deciduous trees at $375 each, will be between 6
and 8 feet in height, which is a good size for a planting.
Acting Mayor Labatt: So are we talking an inch and a half, 2 inch diameter of the trunk then?
Damon Farber: No. Evergreens are measured by height so when we say 6 to 8 feet, it could be 3
to 4 inches at the base of the trunk. For the evergreens. For the deciduous trees, the large shade
trees, at $425, that could be a 3 to 4 inch trunk as opposed to the smaller shade trees at $300
which would be 2 V2 inches in caliper. 2 V2 is a standard in the industry for planting of shade
trees. And the ornamental at $275 is about, is a little bit more than the standard. The standard
would be about $225 so we're looking at, instead of an inch and a half, possibly a 2 inch
omamental tree.
Acting Mayor Labatt: How about 26?
Damon Farber: 26 is a special maple. Again, and we aren't, I should add that we are hoping that
some of these materials like the maple and like the holiday tree might be donations from
somebody. However, we have allocated a line that we're talking about that maple occurring in
the upper northeast corner of the site. And we're looking at getting something in there that's
about 8 to 10 inches if we can. Again, root pruning it in advance. It's a significant tree. It' s not
a standard...
Todd Gerhardt: About where the flowering crab sits now.
Damon Farber: Pardon me?
12
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Todd Gerhardt: It's about where the flowering crab.
Damon Farber: It is... I was out there this evening and I was looking at it. It's not in exactly the
same place, and it actually sits, that flowering crab which is really quite nice, sits I think a little
bit further away from the comer of the building. It sits more about right here between where the
maple is and that spot the tree is in. We should keep in mind that what we have is a master plan
and Phase I of the master plan. There' s still a lot more work, a lot more design work to be done
so if we start to look at that and.., appropriate place for the tree, that could be where the tree goes.
It's not a maple but it is...
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay.
Damon Farber: And these are just our projections cost.
Acting Mayor Labatt: And then line 57. Relocation of transformer.
Damon Farber: That's correct.
Acting Mayor Labatt: And that's put off into the Phase II.
Damon Farber: Into the future.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Why wouldn't we relocate that now?
Damon Farber: We, I'd like to relocate it now. I probably should have suggested that when you
asked me what I thought we ought to do. We don't need to relocate it.
Acting Mayor Labatt: -Which transformer is it?
Damon Farber: It's right down in this comer. Right comer of Market and West 78th. It sits right
about in here.
Acting Mayor Labatt: So right in the middle of your walkway?
Damon Farber: That's correct. But it's in the middle now of where one would walk. If we
remove it, we'd like to move it up to a location here.
Acting Mayor Labatt: That's $30,000 to move it 12 feet, give or take?
Damon Farber: That's correct.
Councilman Peterson: We talked about moving it farther towards the parking lot at one point in
time, didn't we?
Damon Farber: But the cost wouldn't be significantly different.
Councihnan Peterson: Part of what we wanted to do Steve was to see, see how onerous it is to
move it. Or how far, how it fits in. If we say well it doesn't look as bad as we thought, then we
haven't spent the money. That's why we moved it into Phase H.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay.
13
City Council Meeting- May 28, 2002
Damon Farber: It does seem though like it will become visually the focal point. What we really
wanted to do is open this up and look under these trees and into this area and that, at the comer is
one person you'll see. But once the rest of this starts to create a visual focus, we might be able to
beyond that and into the site. And the reality was that we wanted to be cautious about how much
money was spent in Phase I. How much we showed going into it.
Acting Mayor Labatt: So to look at the master plan, and look at Phase I of these sheets and the
trees are different colored in different pictures. Are the ones that are in lighter shades.
Damon Farber: On the plan that you see up in front of you, and the one that is in your, the ones
that are lighter are not in Phase I in the picture.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay.
Damon Farber: The one that has an outline on them, so these trees here. The ornamental trees
and the 3 outdoor rooms pushing these within.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Yeah, I've got them both on.
Damon Farber: Those are Phase I.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: So anything that looks shaded or hazy is not included.
Damon Farber: That's correct.
Todd Gerhardt: You see the steps and the rooms will not be included as a part of Phase I when
you go to the different rooms down below. You might want to point that out.
Damon Farber: ...we've had a series of steps going in a westerly direction and another series of
steps coming across...going north. These two set of stairways are not in Phase I. That will be a
grassy slope through there with a sidewalk that leads us up there into this larger area.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay.
Damon Farber: To be added at a later date but they aren't in Phase I.
Todd Gerhardt: I though the holiday tree was included in Phase I. No? Why wouldn't we have
the holiday tree in Phase I?
Councilman Peterson: I don't remember.
Damon Farber: The reason we didn't show it in Phase I, and...that we were hoping to get that in
a donation.
Acting Mayor Labatt: What if we don't? Then what?
14
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Damon Farber: Then we'll probably end up moving it...something else that we take out. The
general consensus has been that that' s an important element within the park itself and that will
happen right here in this raised in the plan circle. Right at the corner.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Todd, what' s our budget? Do you know off the top of your head?
Todd Gerhardt: $200,000 is what we allocated for the 2002 budget year. And as you can see this
project has moved into 2003, and so we get another shot at modifying that budget. We also,
there's costs associated with the library project that are included in this one so we will be
transferring some money from the library construction fund into here, so I think it was around
$150-$160,000 that would go into that portion of the budget. So we're still in need of about
$250,0O0.
Damon Farber: We're also filling in in this initial phase, we're showing a contingency of about
$47,000. I hope we don't need that but we try to be really conservative on our numbers. I'd
much rather have money left than be falling short so, that contingency will get reduced the further
we get into the design or working.., what are designs would be. What construction plans will
look like.
Todd Gerhardt: When we put the initial budget together we had absolutely no idea what we were
up against with this. What the design would be. What would be included in the project, so we
put some initial money in there if you remember and knowing that it would probably have to be
modified.
Damon Farber: We looked at, and just so it didn't look like we're...we did look at a plan that
was a $200,000 scheme realizing that was initially what was anticipated. But it really was
extremely minimal and it didn't allow...2 year trying to cut this down, so we did look at that and
talked about the reality of it being something that was not that...
Todd Gerhardt: And this has been a good government project. We started off at $1.3 million and
we' ve got it down to a million now. Usually it goes the other way and so we're down to about a
million in the master phase and a half million dollars for Phase I.
Damon Farber: And a lot of those reductions were really at the request of the parks commission
or staff, or even input from just people keeping...that one public meeting we had. It could have
been a lot more. We had some fairly elaborate arbors and as it turned out, that really wasn't what
the community wanted. So we had to cut back significantly in some of those areas.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Damon, where is your plan to put these 3 sculptures?
Damon Farber: We have, one sculpture at this point which is at the terminus of the walkway
when one walks down the stairs. Here's, we're in here right now. There's a sculpture here.
There's another sculpture identified here, and then a third sculpture at this point on here. Now,
one of the things about art is that we'd rather not see a piece just placed in the landscape so if
there's a specific piece of work that's meant to go in a lawn or meant to go on a pedestal, then we
would accommodate that. So we're not forcing this as the location. This is where we're showing
it now just in budgetary.
Acting Mayor Labatt: What kind of sculpture are you envisioning?
15
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Damon Farber: We have no idea. That's not something that we've identified just yet. And I'm
not sure we would. I think that...
Acting Mayor Labatt: So where does the $25,000 per sculpture figure come from?
Damon Farber: It's an allowance. Based on work that we've done in other projects where we
have included sculpture, $25,000 is a basic amount. It's a reasonable amount.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. But that is not in a Phase I?
Damon Farber: No, it is not.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Any other comments?
Councilman Boyle: No.
Acting Mayor Labatt: This is a public hearing so we will open this up. Okay, so I'll take this
time now to open this portion of the meeting up for a public hearing. We'll be taking public
comments from anybody.
Councihnan Peterson: Motion to close.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Second?
Councilman Boyle: Second.
Acting Mayor Labatt: The public meeting is closed. Okay. Comments? Not to pick on
anybody, make you go first but Bob.
Councilman Ayotte: The only thing I want to say, and I don't think it should be part, necessarily
part of the motion but if we could get an idea of recurring costs to maintain and sustain I think
it'd be a good idea so these things could be added to the tax base. If we can do that.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. Craig.
Councilman Peterson: I think it's reasonable. I'd move to go to plans and specs.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay, Gary.
Councilman Boyle: No further comments. I would second that motion.
Acting Mayor Labatt: I was actually going to hope to add a few items back in here that were
pushed out to the master Phase II. Anybody.
Councilman Peterson: Actually I wasn't, I misspoke. I didn't really make a motion, even though
Gary seconded it. I thank him for that.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Well if we want to pull our cost summary sheets here, I've got a few items
checked that I'd like to talk about on bringing some things forward. If you guys want to check
these when you're going along. 13.
16
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Councilman Ayotte: 13 did you say?
Acting Mayor Labatt: Yep. 14. 19. 23.
Councilman Peterson: Slow down.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. 26. 33. 37. 39. 45. 47. 57, but I'm willing to negotiate on that
one. And 63.
Councilman Boyle: Does that mean you're not going to negotiate on the others?
Acting Mayor Labatt: No. You know I think that, you know if you're going to put in the, 57's
the transformer. If we're going to put in the sidewalk and all that stuff, it would cer{ainly make
sense to move the darn thing out of the way and do the sidewalk so it's all one smooth transition.
Councilman Ayotte: And were you planning on moving it, planning on moving it it's going to
be?
Todd Gerhardt: It's something we have to coordinate with Xcel and finding a location that works
for them too. Not just where we want it. You've got to find a functional spot when you deal with
those issues.
Councihnan Ayotte: I guess that's my point. So if we were to say go ahead and do that, just as
long as that we know that the relocation is not going to move up to $100,000 then I think it's fine
but if it's going to have a large cost impact we need to know that.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Well I think if it exceeds $30,000, then come back to us and get a change
order. But I think that these figures are not to exceed figures.
Damon Farber: These figures are estimates.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Yeah, and I haven't added up how much.
Councilman Peterson: About $110,000.
Damon Farber: Okay I, I guess I'm more conservative. I come up with 127 but I may be
mistaken.
Councilman Peterson: That's a lot of money Steve.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Well I'm willing to negotiate like I said.
Councilman Peterson: I'll give you 10.
Acting Mayor Labatt: 10 items?
Councilman Peterson: Thousand. I mean the issue is, we don't have the money currently and
I'm concerned that even though we've got another budget year to go through it, we can
potentially add them at a later point in time when we had a better sense of what next year's
budget's going to be, can't we Todd?
17
City Council Meeting- May 28, 2002
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah.
Councilman Boyle: So we'll have a better handle on what this has cost.
Damon Farber: Maybe a suggestion. What we could do is we could develop the contract
document in such a way that these would be add alternates. So as we do the work from drawing,
we can get a bid. Find out how much it costs, so then you could make that decision about
whether or not to include that. Because that way you'll have real numbers. You're not obligated
to accept any of those add alternates as far as I know, unless the city has a formula...
Todd Gerhardt: Oh no, I love add alternates. It's the way to go.
Councilman Boyle: I'd have no problem with that. Steve, if you would accept that.'
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay, yeah.
Councilman Peterson: I'll agree.
Todd Gerhardt: Can we talk about landscaping first? I don't know if you can do some add
alternates on some of those. Can you, I mean I suspect you can deduct as many of the line items
but I'm looking you know a holiday tree and special maple. The thing I think the council needs
to talk about here, do you want it donated or do you want to buy it is kind of where you're going.
Councilman Boyle: We wanted it donated.
Councilman Peterson: I'm not uncomfortable approving Steve's recommendations on
landscaping because I think that's going to make it more inviting. We talked about this before.
I'd rather go more on the green. Add the physical benches, etc, etc, later if we have the money.
So I'm certainly not adverse to approving now the landscaping additions Steve mentioned. As far
as the furniture and other items, I'd recommend doing an add alternate on that.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. I'd go along with that.
Councilman Boyle: Even if they are donated at a later time, the check would still go back to the
city and into this budget, could it not?
Todd Gerhardt: Well we have lots of room out here for donated trees if you look at the difference
between Phase I and master plan. If you look at the shaded trees. That's why we didn't include
all the trees is that we wanted to have some trees to be donated. Memorial trees or however you
want to label them, you know after the fact. But when you've got what's called the special tree,
do you want Chanhassen Bank known as the holiday tree is where I'm going with it. Do you
want to start advertising some of these because.
Councilman Boyle: I think you should.
Councilman Peterson: I would agree. I make a motion to approve this going to plans and specs
as amended with Steve's co~mnents.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Minus the.
18
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Councilman Peterson: Minus the landscaping, landscaping is a go. Everything else is add
alternates just as Steve's recommendations.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Is that clear Damon?
Damon Farber: Yes it is. Everything through line 28 becomes 29, those are the base bids in
Phase I. Everything below than then we talked about now comes...bid alternates.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Correct. Good, thanks Craig. So we've got a motion. Is there a second?
Councilman Boyle: Second.
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Boyle seconded to authorize Damon'Farber
Associates to prepare detailed plans and specifications for Phase I of the City Center
Commons as amended. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote
of 4to0.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDER REPLATTING OF SCHNEIDER PARK 2~-~
ADDITION, CITY OF CHANHASSEN.
A. APPROVAL OF PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT.
B. PUBLIC HEARING ON VACATION OF DRAINAGE AND UTILITY
EASMENTS AND PORTIONS OF RIGHT-OF-WAY.
Todd Gerhardt: I think Matt is prepared to talk about Schneider Park 2nd Addition. As a part of
the library construction project we're trying to clean up some of the platting and vacating of
existing right-of-way and easements in this area and Matt is going to tell you which ones.
Matt Saam: Thanks Todd. Right in about the center of the proposed library there's an existing
sewer and water line which runs north/south. Obviously with the building going there, that's
going to need to be moved. It's coming over here to the east of the building. We'll get a new
easement with the final plat. Without the line being here anymore there's no need to have the
easements so we're recommending vacating that. And as Todd said, there's some minor right-of-
way clean-up that we're doing along Kerber Boulevard, West 78th Street and we're dedicating
additional right-of-way on Market. That in essence is everything for the vacation so unless you
have any questions for me, I'd be happy to answer them.
Todd Gerhardt: It is a public hearing, just a reminder.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Anyone wishing to public comment on this, please step forward. Seeing
none, close public hearing. Is there a motion?
Councilman Boyle: This takes two motions?
Matt Saam: Yes.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Go ahead Gary.
Todd Gerhardt: Matt, it's all one resolution, correct?
Matt Saam: Yes .... one resolution.
19
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Councilman Boyle: Motion that we approve a resolution vacating the existing drainage and
utility easement and right-of-way as shown on the Schneider Park 2nd Addition final plat with the
subject conditions.
Councilman Peterson: Second.
Resolution g2002-50A: Councilman Boyle moved, Councilman Peterson seconded to
approve a resolution vacating an existing drainage and utility easement and right-of-way as
shown on the Schneider Park 2nd Addition final plat, subject to the following condition:
1. Legal description of the areas to be vacated must be supplied to the city for r, ecording.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Councilman Boyle: Make a motion that the council approve the preliminary plat and a resolution
for the final plat for Schneider Park 2nd Addition as shown on plans prepared by Brandt
Engineering and Surveying, subject to the list of conditions 1 through 4.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Second?
Councilman Peterson: Second.
Resolution#2002-50B: Councilman Boyle moved, Councilman Peterson seconded to
approve the preliminary plat and a resolution for the final plat for Schneider Park 2nd
Addition, as shown on the plans prepared by Brandt Engineering and Surveying, subject to
the following conditions:
1. Revise the plans to state "East line of the SW ~¼ of the SW ~¼, Sec. 12.T.116,R.23".
2. Move the property line between Lots 1 and 2, Block 1, eleven (11) feet to the south to
allow for maximum flexibility for possible future additions or building on Lot 1.
3. The plat shall be revised to change the street name to Kerber Boulevard and show the
vacated street in the middle of the plat as City Center Drive.
4. The drainage and utility easement shall be labeled on the plat.
Ail voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
RECEIVE AND APPROVE PLANS FOR A 6 FOOT TRAIL ALONG HIGHWAY 101
NORTH~ PRO,IECT 97-12-3.
Matt Saam: Thank you Acting Mayor, Council members. Recently staff was directed to look at
difference in costs for the construction of a 6 foot trail along Highway 101 as compared with an 8
foot trail along Highway 101. The City's consultant on this project, HTPO has drawn up plans
for a 6 foot trail. They're here tonight. The cost difference between the 6 foot trail and the 8 foot
trail is approximately $107,000. Joel Rutherford of HTPO is here. He'll briefly go over the
differences in the plans between the 6 foot and the 8 foot trail.
Councilman Boyle: I'll bet it's 2 feet.
20
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Matt Saam: That's most of the difference.
Todd Gerhardt: Nothing gets by Gary.
Joel Rutherford: Thank you council. I'll just try to go through this very briefly, and show you
the main differences between the 8 foot trail and the 6 foot trail. Basically the money savings
resulting from those changes. Plans pretty much look very much like they did the last time.
Some of the changes, I'm not sure how easily this will show up in the screen but a typical section
now for the 6 foot trail. Previously we showed 1 foot shoulders. There will be some areas where
there will be rock shoulder but for the most part the standard 1 foot shoulder on each side has
been eliminated. In this area, the rest area, that also shows a 6 foot trail so there's some savings
there. Per the sheet, the alignment to the trail has pretty much stayed the same. We did some
changes to this rest area. Originally it came out more into the open space of the parle. There was
some concern that that was using up some of that open space so we tried to change that slightly so
that we' re not using as much of that open space that was shown on the previous plan. One of the
issues that came up at the last meeting was why not bring the trail, keep it in the MnDot right-of-
way. You can kind of see, there's a small wetland area in here. There is some impact with the
trail but to minimize the impact we chose this route versus coming all the way through. Going
north along the trail. The alignment pretty much stays the same. There is less impact to the
adjoining property owners so there will be fewer parcels that will require easements based on a 6
foot trail which is one of the more significant changes in going from an 8 foot to a 6 foot. Again
the alignment is pretty much the same as it was before. The width is just narrower. Some issues
that came up at the last meeting. There was an earlier plan that showed a catch basin at this
location. The last plan showed that not being there anymore. We have since added that back and
just for a fair comparison, the cost estimate for the 8 foot trail also included that storm sewer so
we tried to compare apples to apples here. You can see the true difference.
Councilman Peterson: That was a discussion where the water was flowing towards, back towards
the lake.
Joel Rutherford: Exactly. It flowed, the current drainage basically flows down this property line
and there was some question about some standing water and some issues with that hydrant and...
go ahead and add that structure back. There's some additional costs of course but it will help
reduce the amount of water going down that property line .... it has been a problem in the past. In
this area, again the alignment is pretty much the same. It's going from an 8 foot to a 6 foot. The
same thing through this area. This area in here, because of the existing, because of an existing
retaining wall and the amount of room to work with, the width through there pretty much has
stayed the same. It was proposed to be a 6 foot wide trail through there, even with the previous
plan so that area as we state is the same as a 6 foot trail.
Councilman Boyle: Is that where the sign is that says, what's the name of that?
Todd Gerhardt: Colonial Grove?
Councilman Boyle: There's a sign, the name of the neighborhood.
Councilman Ayotte: Fox Hollow?
Councihnan Boyle: But is there room to put 8 foot from the sign to the road? It looks like it's
pretty close now. It's Sandy Hook isn't it?
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City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Joel Rutherford: Yeah, Sandy Hook Road. There is an existing retaining wall which doesn't
allow the full 6 feet with the current edge of the pavement. What we're proposing to do is take
out that retaining wall and move it back to the right-of-way line so that we do have 6 feet. The
original concept plan I think show it being a 3 foot right-of-way which MnDot was very much
opposed to that so we look at moving that retaining wall back so that we can get at least 6 feet.
Todd Gerhardt: So will any of the trail be in the fight turn lane there? There's a partial right turn
lane.
Joel Rutherford: The partial fight turn lane should remain pretty much where it's at and there is a
curb there, I believe it's bituminous curb so from that curb back to the new retaining wall will
give us a 6 foot trail.
Todd Gerhardt: And you don't know if it's going to impact the sign that's there or not?
Joel Rutherford: It shouldn't. Now when you say sign, is it like an entrance monument?
Councilman Boyle: Yes.
Joel Rutherford: Yeah.
Councilman Boyle: On both sides of the street.
Joel Rutherford: Our plan is to not disturb those. And it appears as though we can do that.
Further to the north...but the alignment sticks pretty much to the same. Just narrowing the width.
It moves slightly towards one direction or the other... We need to maintain some ditch along the,
make that right-of-way for drainage so we work with the trail...to keep that ditch. Again, pretty
much the same alignment. As well as in this section. This drawing shows some of the detail of
some of the larger retaining walls that are required. One's near the beginning of the project. It's
about 250 feet long or so. Up to 15 feet high. So whether it's a 6 foot trail or an 8 foot trail, we
still have the construction of these large retaining walls which is a very significant cost. Pretty
substantial. There wasn't really any large savings...from a 6, or excuse me, from an 8 to a 6 foot
with these large retaining walls.
Matt Saam: If I could just add. The retaining walls are the item that staff was hoping would be
able to be reduced going from the 8 to the 6 foot, and as Joel said, it appears there won't be much
savings so.
Joel Rutherford: Especially the large ones. There's a couple of the smaller ones there will be
some reductions but on the larger ones, there really wasn't a lot that could be done. Cross
sections. It's kind of hard to go through these. There are some changes that allowed some cost
savings.
Councilman Boyle: Do we want to see that council?
Acting Mayor Labatt: Do you want to see it?
Councilman Boyle: No.
Matt Saam: Thanks Joel. As previously stated, HTPO's cost estimate of potential savings
between the 8 and the 6 foot trail would be approximately $107,000. It's staff's opinion that that
22
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
amount, when you compare it to the total project amount of $1.3 million, it's less than 10 percent.
Our opinion that that amount is insufficient to justify the decrease or reduction in pavement
width. In addition there's also increased maintenance costs which the city would have to realize.
To discuss those a little more in detail, Todd Hoffman, our City Parks Director.
Todd Hoffman: Thanks Matt. In general let's go over a couple of things regarding maintenance
and if the council has additional questions, I'd be glad to answer those. First of all I want to
commend the council in getting this far on this trail. It's been a long time coming. The one thing
I don't want to see happen is that we cannot provide the citizens with a product that they deserve
and that they would like to see if we reduce this to a 6 foot trail versus an 8. The city standard
trail width is 8 feet. We have approximately 30 miles of those trails in the city at present. And
each time that it snows, those are plowed using a pick-up truck. Sometimes on multiple
occasions throughout a day as additional snow is moved onto the trails from road maintenance.
In the case of Highway 101, we'll have no control over the timing of the other agencies snow
plowing so there' s no chance for coordination there. If we go out and plow it on a Monday
morning after a snowfall and they come back and plow 3 hours later, if we want to maintain that
to a reasonable expectation, then we' 11 need to get back out there and maintain it. If we go with a
6 foot trail, you can do that with a piece of machinery we already own is a bobcat, which is very
slow. Very inefficient to complete a maintenance operations on a mile and half section of trail.
Or purchase what Eden Prairie has 4 of which is an articulated snow removal machine at a cost of
about $50,000 or $60,000 for that single piece of equipment to maintain a single section of trail.
We also do sweeping and presently we sweep all these trails, not only during the spring and fall
but periodically during the summer with a tractor which fits on an 8 foot trail but would not fit on
a 6 foot trail, and so we would have difficulty maintaining again to the level of expectation that
we would think those residents would have. They've waited this long to get the same trail. You
would think they'd have the same expectation to have the same level of maintenance. So I just
wanted the council to be aware that again, if we have $107,000, I think we're going to quickly eat
away at those savings through increased labor hours and maintenance and machinery hours, or
machinery purchases that we need to make to go ahead and maintain that trail. And if there's any
other questions in that area. I strongly support an 8 foot trail and would be glad to elaborate
further.
Councilman Boyle: Matt, how many feet of 6 foot do, I mean regardless whether we go 8 or not,
how many feet would be 6 feet? Linear feet would be a 6 foot width. Do you recall?
Matt Saam: Joel, is that a mile and a half?.
Joel Rutherford: The total length of the project is about 9,100 feet.
Councilman Boyle: Right, but you indicated there is a certain section that's going to be 6 foot
regardless.
Joel Rutherford: Okay. That section I estimate would be about 200 and 200 feet long.
Councilman Boyle: So you would have to take special equipment to take care of that portion
anyway Todd?
Todd Hoffman: At present we have a similar segment. We have an identical situation in
Minnewashta Parkway. We just simply jump off and jump back on and so that section is not
maintained during the winter and people just track through it. We don't find the time or the way
23
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
to get back out there with a different piece of equipment to go ahead and manage that small
section of trail.
Councilman Boyle: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: Joel, can you show us where that, where those sections are? The 200 and 200
feet of 6 foot.
Joel Rutherford: It's actually, it looks like it's a little bit less than that. It's about from this point
here to about here, which is probably a little bit over 100 feet.
Todd Gerhardt: Is there a guardrail there because that's a right turn lane too.
Joel Rutherford: It's a right turn lane. There's curb, but there's no guardrail proposed.
Todd Gerhardt: So the trail's on the back side of the curb?
Joel Rutherford: Correct.
Todd Gerhardt: So Todd could physically go out there with a pick-up and clean off that trail or
push it forward.
Todd Hoffman: We're not restricted at that location.
Joel Rutherford: No, it's basically, and I can probably show you on the cross sections. There's a
retaining wall on the one side. This is a typical section through that area. Here's the curb.
Here's the trail and here's the retaining wall so there's no guardrail or any other obstruction.
Todd Hoffman: In that section you could maintain itjust by hanging the plow off the one side.
But in this area in Minnewashta Parkway we're bound in by trees on one side and...
Councilman Boyle: I understand. Okay, thank you.
Councilman Ayotte: If I could ask a question of counsel. Is it reasonable to suspect that if
someone would not want to sign or authorize an easement, does that scenario, is that a possibility
that we would have holes in the trail where people would not agree to allow us to.
Tom Scott: Well I'm hopeful that we can acquire all the easements voluntarily but if not, we
would need to go to condemnation to acquire the easements.
Councilman Ayotte: And is it advantageous in terms of at least seeing where our hard spots are
to have a request for quote in the bidding process to include both 6 foot and 8 foot only from the
standpoint of having the additional cost data point and if we do have an easement issue, that we
have that as an option to consider? In segments.
Tom Scott: I can't say I have a real good, well let me say this. I've had some discussions with
the city engineer and in fact we're meeting with an appraiser later this week to get some general
ideas on what range of compensation they may be looking at on the easements, but my general
impression is that, and I may live to regret these words but I don't think the easement acquisition
costs here looks like it's significant on any of these parcels. My sense is that we're not disrupting
any retaining walls. We're not going to take down any large trees. I'm looking at the consultant
24
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
to correct me if I'm wrong, so we're just basically looking at a lot of these parcels are just very
narrow 5 foot temporary construction easements and the vast majority of them, the actual trail
width, and I'm referring to the 8 foot trail, do not even go onto the parcels. They're within the
right-of-way and we're just looking at acquiring some temporary construction easements. My
sense is that the easement acquisition costs on the 8 foot trail, because that's the plans I've seen, I
don't think are particularly significant.
Councilman Ayotte: I was just looking to see if there's any hard points. If there's any reason, I
don't understand the recommendation completely. Are you recommending that we go out for
bids that would reference both the 6 foot trail and an 8 foot trail?
Matt Saam: No. The latest recommendation, since we received the plans late Thurs, day or early
Friday was to approve the 6 foot trail plans, but authorize advertisement for bids on the 8 foot
trail so basically going ahead with the 8 foot trail.
Councilman Ayotte: Would there be any problem in also getting the cost data in the request for
quotes for the 6 foot, just so that we have another cross data point?
Matt Saam: No other than I would think additional paperwork. I mean you could advertise both,
if that's what you're asking, sure.
Councilman Peterson: Do as a bid alternate. That's the easiest way to do it.
Matt Saam: You could do that too.
Councilman Boyle: But why?
Councilman Ayotte: As an additional data point for negotiation purposes for one.
Councilman Peterson: Right now we don't know the costs, and we'll have a much better analysis
if there's $107,000. What if it's $200,000 say? We don't know.
Councilman Boyle: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: One of the things you, Mayor if I may add to that. That kind of what you're
asking to do is to take quotes on a 6 foot section and an 8 foot section and right now the project is
broken into phases. I think it's 4 or 5. 5 phases. And typically what you do on most of these
projects is do it by quantity. We did not do that. Or we did on some of the quantity but it's
broken into phases. You can still do the phase if you bid it out plans and specs on a quantity basis
or linear foot of trail. And then you can decide if you want to cut the project doWn, you decide
where you want to do that. Based on the current plans and specs, you're kind of handcuffed.
You have to pick which one of those segments that you want to do, correct Joel?
Joel Rutherford: Yeah, you could still modify within each of those schedules the different
phases. Like you could reduce or increase them.
Todd Gerhardt: But wouldn't it be a little more flexible and easier for you to bid this out instead
of doing it in phases based on a linear foot or quantity set of specifications than a 5 phase project?
Joel Rutherford: That's correct. And not only easier for me, but it's actually easier for the
contractor. You know when it comes time to determining the lowest responsible bidder. When
25
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
you have a lot of different schedules and alternatives, you make it confusing on who is the low
bidder because depending upon how you pick and choose the schedules.
Councilman Ayotte: That's just for source selection. We still would have the ability to issue and
go forward on a segment of the trail versus.
Joel Rutherford: Right. So you always have the option of reducing once you've awarded the
contract.
Todd Gerhardt: ...have one contractor that's Iow on 3 of the phases.
Councilman Ayotte: I understand. I'm just saying we still have the option to assess the scope.
Acting Mayor Labatt: We don't want that.
Todd Gerhardt: We don't want that.
Councilman Ayotte: So we just want to go with the plan right now, I'd like to have two data
points, 6 foot and 8 foot. Go with the quantity and then consider what would be the option after
we receive the bids.
Todd Gerhardt: Does that make sense?
Joel Rutherford: Yes.
Todd Gerhardt: Okay. So if you had the 5, you'd have two sets of 5 bids. One for the 6 foot trail
and one with the 8 foot trail. If you were to keep all 5 phases in there.
Councilman Peterson: I'd make a motion that we approve the 6 foot plans as approved, the 8
foot plans as approved on May 13th and the 6 foot trail as approved on May 28th, and go with the
6 foot with the 8 foot as a bid alternate.
Councilman Ayotte: And do it on a quantity basis versus segment.
Councilman Peterson: Yes. Is that clear?
Councilman Ayotte: I second that.
Councilman Boyle: May we have some comment? Discussion.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Yeah.
Councilman Boyle: I see where you're coming from but based upon what I've heard from staff
and the consultant, I don't understand the 6 foot. I think we ought to stay at the 8 foot. That's
just my thoughts.
Councilman Peterson: I'm not deciding tonight whether I'm going with a 6 or 8. All I'm saying
now is get dollars.
Councilman Boyle: Okay.
26
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Acting Mayor Labatt: I'm with you Gary but, so will this delay any sort of this project by
looking at a 6 foot alternative?
Matt Saam: I don't think so. Joel, what's your opinion on that. They can bid both of them just
as easy as one of them.
Joel Rutherford: Yeah. Both plans are essentially completed so.
Acting Mayor Labatt: So what happens if we get 5 bidders. 4 of them bid for just the 6 foot trail,
one bids for an 8 foot trail.
Joel Rutherford: Well they'll both bid for both.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Are you sure?
Joel Rutherford: They' re required to.
Acting Mayor Labatt: They're required to bid for both, okay.
Matt Saam: Their amounts Steve just might be a lot higher on the one they don't want to do.
That's what you might see.
Councilman Ayotte: They'd be non-responsive if they didn't respond to both.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay, so we'll see X number of companies will have bids for 6 and 8 foot
from both companies.
Matt Saam: Right.
Councilman Boyle: Gee, maybe we ought to throw 4 foot in there too.
Acting Mayor Labatt: How about 127 Okay so, Craig can you repeat your motion?
Councilman Peterson: Paraphrasing it, I'd move to approve the 6 foot trail as presented this
evening, going to plans and specs with an 8 foot bid alternate. And presenting it all in quantity in
linear square feet.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. Is there a second?
Councilman Ayotte: I second that.
Resolution #2002-51: Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded to
approve the 6 foot trail plans and authorize advertisement for bids for the 6 foot trail with
an 8 foot bid alternate. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote
of 4 to 0.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Thanks Matt. Okay. 6, Council presentations. Under new business we
have nothing. Sure, under new business Tom you can. Come on up.
Tom Workman: I wasn't going to say anything. I just, Tom Workman, 181 South Shore Court
and on one of the first pages of the diagram, I don't see anybody else from my neighborhood here
27
City Council Meeting -May 28, 2002
tonight so I figured I'd better say something. That South Lotus, little dippity doo in the park. It
looks like they've reduced the resting area. But what peaked my curiosity was that along that
roadway is a wetland, and what is now a wetland right here. Somebody did some utility work
there I'll say 7 years ago or so. We had a different city engineer and she lived across the road in
those apartments and so, and me living on the other side I said they've made a wetland there after
they came in. I think it was electric or gas or somebody came in there and did some construction
and buried some things under there. There's a new, 7 years ago there's a meter there. A new
meter there that kind of makes some noise every once in a while. I think it's gas. But all of a
sudden I saw cattails coming out of there that had never been there before so if we're not going to
put this trail here because of a wetland that I know wasn't there too long ago and we sort of, the
utility company never came back and corrected whatever it was that they were supposed to do. I
did tell the city engineer that. And I'm not sure that the neighborhood has a big problem with the
trail going where it is. Is that trail between the new trees, evergreens and the old trees?
Joel Rutherford: Yes.
Tom Workman: Because I don't know that that would be a problem but when somebody said
well there's a wetland there, that's a man made, utility made wetland that was never there 10
years ago.
Councihnan Ayotte: It's not a bonafide wetland? We don't have that registered as a wetland.
Tom Workman: I just thought I'd get that on the record and tell you. Thanks. That's all.
Councilman Boyle: Thank you.
Acting Mayor Labatt: And for Tom I got a phone call from the Chapel Hill Academy 4th grade
class, they had a wonderful tour. Thanks to you and Senator Oliver for meeting with them.
Appreciate that.
Tom Workman: We knew they were from Chanhassen because they were smart and good
looking.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay, thanks Tom. Appreciate that.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: COUNCIL/COMMISSION LIAISON UPDATE. None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: CARVER COUNTY REDISTRICTING PLAN.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Julianne Ortman our County Commissioner is here. Did you want to talk?
Julianne Ortman: Good evening. I'm Julianne Ortman. I am the Carver County Commissioner
from Chanhassen District 1 and I have already presented to the members of the City Council my
thoughts on the current redistricting plan that was approved by the Carver County Board of
Commissioners last Tuesday and so I leave it in your capable hands to determine what action, if
any, to take from this point forward. Thank you for listening to me earlier during the work
session. I appreciate it.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Thank you Julianne.
28
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Julianne Ortman: And of course I should say I' m here to answer any questions you may have
about it as well.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay. Well we had discussed earlier, and do you want to discuss any
more?
Councilman Peterson: No, I think that at least what I heard, and correct me if I'm wrong. The
consensus of this group was that we direct the city manager to look at alternatives for City
Council to pursue to potentially change the recommendation that the Carver County
Commissioners has come forward with as of today.
Councilman Ayotte: Well and to add onto that, we need to also discuss those alternatives
relatively soon. Get it onto an agenda post haste so that.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. We'll find out what the deadline is. Do all the research and the viability
of anything, if anything.
Councilman Boyle: The expense. I would also like Todd that you check with some of the other
cities to see if they have the same concerns we have. Well not all the other cities but Waconia for
example. Or maybe Victoria too.
Councilman Peterson: Is that appropriate for a closed session, from the potential issues that we'll
be 'discussing. I don't want to, I know the posting of that is more important and I don't want to
miss that.
Tom Scott: I wasn't at the work session so I'm not, I don't really have much detail on the
situation you're talking about but, so I'd be speculating as to whether it's something you'd do in a
closed session. Generally you have...a court case that came down within the last month that even
made it a little more tighter, the rules on going into an executive session. If there's a pending
lawsuit, an actual lawsuit going on, but if there' s not, then it gets a little iffy as to under what
circumstances you can go into an executive session. So I'm just not generally, because I'm not
specifically familiar with what you're addressing.
Councilman Peterson: Well I guess simply reinforcing what Councilman Ayotte said to Todd,
let's move it dispatch and give us your recommendations and alternatives that we can pursue.
Does that summarize the thoughts gentlemen?
Acting Mayor Labatt: yeah I would, I think the four of us are on the same page. Paragraph even.
Maybe sentence on that one. Okay, so we'll just leave it at that direction. There's no need for a
motion?
Todd Gerhardt: No.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Julianne.
Julianne Ortman: If I could make one more comment Mr. Mayor. I believe that the time line
here is critical. That there are a matter of days, not weeks before any kind of appeal or request for
consideration by a court could be made and I'm not here to advise the board legally but only let
you know what my understanding is. That this is a matter that must be undertaken immediately if
it's going to be undertaken at all.
29
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay.
Councilman Peterson: It's dispatch with a capital D.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Well with that, do we need to look at advertising a'special session for
Friday that meets the requirements?
Councilman Peterson: I think Todd needs to find out the time frame and then make a decision
from there so.
Councilman Boyle: If we need a special session.
Todd Gerhardt: We just need to post 3 days ahead of time so is all you need to do t(~ have a
special meeting.
Acting Mayor Labatt: If we post today, could we still meet on Friday?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes. You can meet on Thursday.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Today is Tuesday though.
Tom Scott: If you post today you can meet on Friday. Today's Tuesday so.
Todd Gerhardt: Oh today's Tuesday.
Tom Scott: So, you don't count the date you post it but you count the day of the meeting so
you'd have to post today to be on Friday. Post it tomorrow, the earliest would be Saturday.
Acting Mayor Labatt: How do we feel if we post today for a meeting on Friday?
Councilman Peterson: I think he needs to get more information. He may not have the
information. We may have a 10 day deadline and I'd rather have all the information.
Acting Mayor Labatt: We can always cancel the meeting. I don't want to get to the point if we
miss tomorrow and all of a sudden we have to meet on Saturday. We can always cancel the
meeting.
Councilman Peterson: You're right.
Acting Mayor Labatt: I'd rather have a ace in the hole here.
Councilman Boyle: Makes sense.
Acting Mayor Labatt: And I'm not sure about Mayor Jansen's availability but.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor? Acting Mayor. We can just continue this meeting if you want to pick a
day and then you don't have to post. Just don't.
Tom Scott: We could add this item to our, it's not on our current agenda is it?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes.
30
City Council Meeting - May 28, 2002
Tom Scott: Was it on the work session?
Todd Gerhardt: No, right now.
Acting Mayor Labatt: We're on it right now.
Tom Scott: You could not adjourn this meeting and then you could continue this meeting to, if
you wanted to do it Thursday night or whatever, you could continue the meeting for that
particular item to another date.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay I follow you.
Tom Scott: Yes. So it'd just be a continuation of this meeting. Not adjourn the me~ting.
Continue it for that item to whatever date you want.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Friday at what time is good for you? 12:007 12:307
Councilman Peterson: I'd say 11:30-12:00.
Acting Mayor Labatt: How about 12:00. Bob?
Councihnan Ayotte: That's fine.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Gary?
Councilman Boyle: Fine.
Acting Mayor Labatt: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: Make a motion?
Tom Scott: So we would, yeah.
Councilman Peterson: I make a motion that we continue this meeting until 12:00 noon this
coming Friday.
Councilman Boyle: Second. -
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Boyle seconded to continue the City Council
meeting to Friday, May 31, 2002 at 12:00 noon. All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
31
STAFF PRESENT:'
CONTINUATION
' CountY's decision
:monument. JUst hOW it
reasonabior~Uest forthe variance ~cafi~eit is ~Co:~ro~d'With that,:
,::::~laYbaugh: Thank Y°u~ : ' .
resenmtion~ ~ so;-: lea~m~:fothe-~~5~n~:~d~~a~aand:addres~;for~the
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
maximum height is 5 feet by the ordinance, and 5 feet was going to hide behind the bushes of the
city parking lot so I thought let's raise it up a little bit.
Lillehaug: Okay. And one other quick question. The lighting on the south side, will this be
identical to what's proposed on the north side? The lighting of the sign.
Derril Burger: No, they're different types of signs. The south side is a neon type sign. This one
is an individually lit. It's less obtrusive if you will.
Lillehaug: Okay.
Derril Burger: But they're individual letters against the building and not neon type.,
Lillehaug: Okay, thanks.
Derril Burger: Any other questions?
Blackowiak: No, I don't think so.
Derril Burger: I'm really happy with the building. The way it turned out.
Blackowiak: Good. It looks good. Okay, this item is open for a public hearing so if anybody
would like to speak on this item, please come to the microphone. Seeing no one I will close the
public hearing. Commissioners, any further comments?
Feik: I don't have any. Seems straight forward.
Sacchet: Seems like a reasonable situation.
Sidney: Very reasonable.
Btackowiak: No? The only thing I'd like to add is that I think we should sort of stress in the
findings two things. Number one, the wall mounted sign is in lieu of the monument sign, which I
think is fairly well stated in the conditions. But number two, that the city's monument sign
currently in existence is the reason that we're granting a variance for a different sign, so that in
the future let's just kind of keep, there's a reason we're doing this so there's the existing sign and
that's what we're taking into consideration when we're allowing this variance.
Slagle: Madam Chair, if I could.
Blackowiak: Sure.
Slagle: One thing, on point one of the conditions. Should that say the north facing wall sign is in
lieu of a monument sign?
Blackowiak: Oooh, good catch. Thank you very much Rich.
Slagle: Yep.
Blackowiak: Alright, could I have a motion please?
Planning Commission Meeting- May 21, 2002
Sacchet: Madam Chair, I make the motion that the Planning Commission approves Variance
g~)2-5 for a 15 square foot wall mounted sign to be located on the north elevation of the Remax
Action West building as shown on the plan dated May 2, 2002 with the following conditions 1
through 2 with changing condition 1 that it reads wall sign not monument sign.
Blackowiak: Okay, is there a second?
Feik: Second.
Sacchet moved, Feik seconded that the Planning Commission approves Variance g02-5 for a
15 square foot wall mounted sign to be located on the north elevation of the REMAX
ACTION WEST building, as shown on the plans dated May 2, 2002, with the fo. llowing
conditions:
1. The north facing wall sign is in lieu of a monument sign.
2. The applicant shall apply for a sign permit.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0.
PUBLIC HEARING:
CONSIDER THE REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL TO CREATE
THREE LOTS AND TWO OUTLOTS ON 26.9 ACRES ZONED PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT AND LOCATED AT THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF HWY 5 AND
41~ STEINER DEVELOPMENT~ ARBORETUM BUSINESS PARK 4T}~ ADDITION.
Kate Aanenson and Matt Saam presented the staff report on this item.
Blackowiak: Okay thanks Kate. Commissioners, any questions of staff?
Slagle: I just have a couple. First to Matt. This cul-de-sac that will go in, which will then be
extended, assuming something happens in that corporate comer, this landmark site that we talk
about as an entry way to the city. Would there be another entrance in and out of that corporate
site or would it be this street?
Saam: I don't believe there'd be another entrance. Maybe the applicant can add his feelings but
from my discussions with him and from what we've planned as a staff all along, I think this
Outlot B, it's actually going to be a public street. This will be the entrance for the site.
Slagle: Which is Outlot A, correct? Kate, to the west?
Aanenson: Yes.
Slagle: So then my question is, is if we've got this street going to Outlot A, which will still be
again hopefully the big corporate entry way, hospital, what have you, would a right-in/right-out
work for the anticipated traffic flow of a big corporate site?
Aanenson: No. Actually lots, these lots here also have the flexibility of how we're going to look
at that. Ultimately this street will be connected to 41 when that's re-graded and re-built.
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Slagle: So you're thinking Outlot, what I'll call the corner. Whatever it is up there in the upper
left, that will possibly exit in and out of 41?
Aanenson: Correct.
Sacchet: Point of clarification Madam Chair.
Aanenson: No, not this cul-de-sac. No I'm saying this street could come out and those two lots.
Right, it hasn't been decided. You may want to split those lots and make them separately but it
could, but that would be a point.
Sacchet: Point of clarification please, because I think we have a confusion. That cul-de-sac is
going to be right and left turn. What we're saying will be restricted to a right-in/rigl~t-out only is
the driveway further north of that cul-de-sac, is that correct?
Aanenson: Correct.
Saam: Correct...
Slagle: So the cul-de-sac's going to be a left/right.
Saam: Oh, the cul-de-sac will be a open public street.
Slagle: Okay, great.
Aanenson: Yeah, and I was answering the question whether the cul-de-sac... These lots could be
split off and it may not go through but this would not be restricted. The concern is up through in
here there's a partial. If you look at this, this is that street going in. It's this area right here.
Slagle: Okay.
Aanenson: Which will be also serving the Kindercare, and that will also have a movement back
down, back out to this.
Slagle: Okay.
Aanenson: And then if you look at the entire piece, which is some of their concern, over here,
which is on this piece. This was also given a possible retail type use. It could be a restaurant,
hotel which was identified in the PUD. So ultimately that, generally we like to line up the
driveways. The concern that they also had was accessing that. Whether that makes a T and a full
turn moves they were anticipating on that side also. So in looking at that was some of the
rationale to go back and say let's look at a traffic study. Whether that curb cut needs to be a full
curb cut or how does the traffic move, because we don't want, when this piece develops, that
backing up onto 5.
Slagle: Exactly.
Aanenson: So that's the issue that we're going to look at.
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Slagle: Okay, and then the follow-up question would be just do you think if a corporate you
know company goes into that Outlot A, or the lot A what I' 11 call it, will that cul-de-sac and it's
traffic you know lights be enough to handle what goes in there?
Aanenson: Well that's why there was the possibility of bringing a road down back onto this road.
They may not want to do that but we'll have to look at that.
Slagle: Okay. That's all.
Blackowiak: Thanks Rich. Steve, questions at all? Nothing? Okay, go ahead.
Sidney: I've got a question about sidewalks and trails. Are we impacting the origin,al plans at
all? Or is that, I guess that maybe is more of a discussion for the site plan.
Saam: I can add. Just in regards to the public street, and I believe they show it. Yeah, they show
a sidewalk. That's typical for what we require. Now interior, you're right. I think that will be
adjust, Kate correct me, with each site plan.
Blackowiak: Okay. Uli, questions?
Sacchet: Yeah, two quick questions. On this plat there's this thing called pond. And with the
idea that this would be filled up?
Saam: Yeah. There's some history here that wasn't all explained in the staff report but about a
year ago that pond was there. I don't know if they filled it all the way in. Now they got a grading
permit last summer/fall. Around that time. It went before you guys. So with that they received
approval to fill that and prepare it for these building sites.
Sacchet: So there is no pond?
Saam: I don't believe it's left anymore. Again, we can ask the applicant.
Sacchet: Yeah, and then the second question, with them doing a traffic study for that right-
in/right-out, is the assumption that the traffic study could possibly show that it's acceptable to
have it a full access? I guess that's why they're pursuing it, right?
Aanenson: Correct.
Sacchet: Yeah, okay.
Saam: I did tell them in the meeting today though that there's no guarantees that, you know if it
comes back favorable to them, well they've got it. We'll take that under advisement. Of course
that will help them if it comes back showing that traffic, the turning movements aren't going to be
an issue.
Sacchet: Okay, okay. Okay, that's my questions, thank you.
Blackowiak: Okay, thanks. Bruce.
Feik: A couple. I would like to follow up on that same access way, the right-in/right-out. If it
stays a right-in/right-out, will that median then be extended to the south?
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Saam: No, and I should have pointed that out. What we were planning on was installing a pork
chop type, if you've seen those. It's basically a triangle with a raised curb. So people can, they
can only turn right-in and they can only go right-out. There will be an actual concrete barrier,
you know not allowing the wheels to go straight.
Feik: And access to Lot 3, which would be the daycare, would also be accessible from that same
right-in/right-out? Or would that be coming from the cul-de-sac?
Saam: It could be I think. Yeah, it could be. All along the, oh go on.
Feik: My concern is we've had a number of residents approach us on some other issues regarding
access. U-turn issues. The one down at Dell and some others and with the daycare ihere, I guess
I would like to see some special deference to the daycare and insure that we're not creating a
hazard that doesn't need to be there otherwise.
Blackowiak: Okay.
Claybaugh: ...additional questions.
Blackowiak: Okay, sure.
Claybaugh: Could you expand on the scope of the study? The traffic study that's being done.'
Obviously it's pertaining to the right-in/right-out but is it also going to encompass the main cul-
de-sac to that future corporate lot? Is that part of the traffic study at this time or is it just limited
to the bank entrance?
Saam: I think that would be a better question for the applicant. I would suspect that whichever
firm they entail would look at turning movements here, and then just for the simple fact that it's
close by, turning movements right at 5 and into this cul-de-sac. I mean it would be easy to model
those also. But again you might want to address that to the applicant to see what exactly they
were going to be looking at.
Claybaugh: Thanks.
Blackowiak: Okay, Steve no other questions?
Lillehaug: I do have a question. There's a site plan approval to come later on but this site plan
approval refers to 3 pages in this preliminary plat. By us approving this preliminary plat, does it
limit any additional information that we'd require on the site plan approval? Maybe that's not
clear.
Aanenson: Yeah, I understand your question. If you want to call out a specific sheet, if you feel
more comfortable with that. The one that just says preliminary plat, that would be appropriate
because the rest of it does refer to the site plan. If you want to call it just Sheet 1 of 2 for the
preliminary plat, that'd be fine.
Lillehaug: Okay.
Blackowiak: Okay, and Kate I had this for the next item but maybe if you could comment right
now in the relationship between items 2 and 3. What do we have to, what happens, should we
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
approve number 2, how does that affect 3? I mean are they independent? Can you just sort of
walk us through that.
Aanenson: Sure. You have to create the lot in order for a subdivision. Right now it's in outlot
status. In order for it to be a buildable lot, you have to create the subdivision to allow it to be
built. So the first step allows a buildable lot, and the second step would be the use to go on that
lot.
Blackowiak: Right, so then if we for example approve number 2, then we can go ahead and say
that, assuming that City Council follows through and does approve number 2, that we recommend
approval of number 3 or however that would go.
Aanenson: Correct.
Blackowiak: Okay. Alright. Okay, at this point would the applicant or their designee like to
make a presentation? If so, please come to the microphone and state your name and address for
the record.
Fred Richter: Fred Richter with Steiner Development. Kate, we're just talking about the plat
right now.
Aanenson: Correct, the subdivision.
Fred Richter: Subdivision.
Aanenson: Yes, not the site plan.
Fred Richter: In addressing the subdivision, I'll just make a few overviews just to allow you to
understand the issues. There were, let's start with this one. We have always been following the
PUD which goes back to '97. At that time it went through a AUAR. We had a traffic study and
so on and basically set up the framework and uses and so on. We have created 3 lots here where
originally we didn't know if there was going to be 2 lots, whatever. And that was in response
basically to the market and what people wanted to be in this location. So that's why we're here
tonight with US Bank on approval of a 1 acre site, Kindercare on about a 1 ½ acre site, and then a
third site which we'll call the residual site which will have, finer parameters on it for later
development. The cul-de-sac and things were all implemented last fall when we went through
our grading, so we' ve kind of pushed forward for the utilities and everything in place to move
ahead with this. There was a question about a pond. That pond never really existed. It was
created when we rough graded Century and it was kind of a temporary thing, and has all been
mitigated and rough graded to facility this plan. On the traffic counts, originally we had traffic
counts of about 1.2 lineal square feet in the total count which will probably build out somewhat
less. Maybe 20 percent less. We're about half built out now in that development. Traffic is
generated by a number of vehicles. We're estimating probably about 3,000 vehicles will be
parked in here and then when the traffic study, they'll get into peak times and things like that.
We're of the opinion that we have 3 outgoing lanes, 2 coming in. Quick turning movements onto
5. That's all designed in. The State has already put in those traffic lights so the real issue
becomes stacking from Highway 5, and that's what we want to get input from a traffic study.
And we're looking for just good, easy movement. We're after good movement as much as the
city so we aren't at odds here. We're just trying to get the facts. We also feel, when we look at
the bank and the Kindercare, that moving the biggest generator of traffic in the site plan is the
drive-thru bank. We really don't want them driving back into the Kindercare and then out. We
Planning Cormnission Meeting - May 21, 2002
think it really is much more efficient to get them in and out and back onto Century. We think
there's enough stacking space and the thing will flow so that we'll get into when we get it back...
As far as Block, the development here. We don't know for sure the market. The city and
everything will come together hopefully in a short period of time we'll have a corporate campus
looks like, or might have a medical orientation, but it will probably be in the neighborhood of 200
to 250,000 square feet of multiple buildings generating probably 500 to 1,000 cars and we think
we're well served if we can oversize the road coming in. It's 2 lanes and 2 lanes out. We have
ease of movement so you really minimize congestion. And the cul-de-sac which we think will
be...will come off of Century and the majority of people will go up to 5. But...understand traffic
will also move, when we did the PUD Coulter was a debate so we have that ability to move east
all the way past Galpin, whatever. Eventually, you know get back into downtown Chanhassen.
And then we exit down on 82nd and eventually we'll have a right-in/right-out when they re-grade
Highway 41, but there's really no assurances on that so I'm just kind of giving you the context
from the planning. I'll take any questions.
Blackowiak: Okay, commissioners questions of the applicant?
Sacchet: Yeah, one question. It's an interesting comment you just made about, so you're
actually weighing the hazardness of some of that bank traffic going through the child care lot
versus the traffic going right-in/right-out, and left-in/left-out.
Fred Richter: Yeah. When you look at the bank detail plan you kind of see that. And the, I mean
traffic's important for everybody and we just want to do what we think is the most efficient and
best. We just think, we aren't generating that much traffic counts that this will ever have any real
stacking problem, which is the reason we do right-in/right-our's. When you have big shopping
centers going onto collector streets, and you've all been there. You know you're pulling out of a
big box retail and you stack up...
Sacchet: Thank you.
Blackowiak: Thanks. LuAnn, question? No? Anyone else questions?
Claybaugh: No, they addressed my question.
Blackowiak: Rich, go ahead.
Slagle: I just have, Fred just one or two. I mentioned to staff, and then also to fellow
commissioner that I had some concern about the actual corporate landmark, the comer that's
desired for this you know, whatever you want to call it. The entry way to Chanhassen. And by
creating these 3 lots if you will we've now reduced the size of the potential of that large, and I'm
not saying it's good or bad. I'm just.
Fred Richter: It's reality.
Slagle: Okay, reality and we are now looking at that. My question is this. And it does dovetail
with the traffic. If we do get something on that 26 acres or whatever.
Fred Richter: 22.19.
Slagle: 22.19. That's left, if you have them going eastbound out of that corporate way, or
whatever it's going to be called, and then they hang a left to get to 5, you're suggesting if you
Planning Commission Meeting- May 21, 2002
don't approve the right-in/right-out, if you don't, if that doesn't happen, that there will be another
intersection or will it just be people taking a chance to take a left or right on their own off the stop
sign?
Fred Richter: Oh, this won't generate, I don't think there's anything in here that will generate
another traffic light.
Slagle: Well what I'm thinking though is if the other lot, the 22.19 or whatever it was, if that
becomes a development with hundreds of cars that will be going in and out at certain times and
most of them I think probably taking a left to get up to 5, my question is, why wouldn't you have,
you mentioned the Kindercare. Why wouldn't you have those people come in and out of that
corporate way?
Fred Richter: Kindercare will.
Slagle: No, the US Bank. Why wouldn't you want people going in and out there and then
following the traffic pattern like this potential site will.
Fred Richter: We just think the bank wants to, would operate as more of a self contained, more
oriented to, it' s more of a retail function. More spontaneous access to Highway 5 1 think is their
concerned where the rest of it is more internal. And I think we're getting, I wish I had all my
numbers here but this development, I mean you can go look at the big corporation developments
and there are a lot of them in the metro area and you don't even know they exist, whether it's
General Mills, Cargill, there's no traffic lights. I mean there's traffic counts by shopping center
standards are very, much smaller. This is not, in my opinion, a huge traffic issue. But again, I
mean I...more detailed traffic study.
Slagle: Sure. But I guess I'm interested in your opinion as well. As a US Bank customer, you
'know if I pulled in there, and I want to take a left to get back to my home up in Longacres, I mean
what's the chances of sitting there for a while trying to take a left? As cars are coming out of
this and coming up Century, I mean I'm just.
Fred Richter: I think the worst condition would be, and I don't know exactly how this would fall
out but if you had...there would be a chance at that time, for a short period of time during this
stream of traffic, it could be onerous to pulling out. But I think that would be very short and
pretty painless compared to the concept. I mean if you go over there now and I've had, and this is
just observations, but I've sat here waiting for people to talk about this land. I mean there is
virtually no traffic and we already have this thing half filled out.
slagle: Sure. Well I'm also, if I can throw out, I'm also thinking of the Pulte homes. You know
coming south and going and doing whatever they're doing and coming back that way. Maybe it's
a short cut to the school, to the rec center.
Fred Richter: I don't know, Century is only going to be a mile long. It T's into 82nd. It's never
been designed as what you would call a collector street to move traffic. Coulter is much more of
a collector street.
Aanenson: It is designed as a minor collector though. Let's be clear.
Slagle: That's what I'm saying, they would go down Century and then make a left on Coulter.
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Fred Richter: But they wouldn't because, they could. I mean anything, but they could go north
because you've got 2 parallel roads along 5 to move traffic. I think the city's done a very good
job. This was an issue, was it 6 years ago Kate? The two parallel, what do you call them?
Sidney: Frontage.
Aanenson: No, no, no, no. We don't use the word frontage. Access boulevard.
Fred Richter: I drove up there today and all the traffic on 5 moves very well on the north access.
I mean so.
Aanenson: Rich, maybe I can just answer this question, and Matt you can correct me if I'm
wrong, but looking at the turning movements, part of the background data as you've indicated,
they're going to have to look at what those turn movements are corning out of that intersection. It
has to be looked at to say, because that's some of Matt's concern is if you're coming out of the
bank and there's a stream of traffic corning out of that cul-de-sac, corporate, is that what you're
going to call it? They're going to have to look at that. How long is the wait and if it's going to
be a long wait, you're going to take the path of least resistance why you're going to come back
down so that will be part of the background data. Looking at those turn movements so that
information will go into the equation, because it is a valid point.
Slagle: And I didn't preface my comments by saying Fred that too, that as this comn-fission
knows I' ve had some interest and some skepticism about traffic studies, to be quite honest with
you so.
Fred Richter: It's not my specialty so, but I just have a strong gut feel that we're over reacting to
a traffic problem that isn't there.
Slagle: Okay, fair enough.
Fred Richter: And I think, hopefully we're back here within a year or so talking about something
on that large site and it can meet city expectation. I don't want to, you know we talk about
corporate headquarters and all that and I don't want to, get the expectations up because right now
it could be many things and the history on it, there's only...we had a medical campus which
physically would have met all the expectations but there were some other issues.
Slagle: Sure.
Fred Richter: And maybe it'd be a hybrid of that or something. Hopefully, because we've got a
good solution but right now it's there as a large piece of land...
Blackowiak: Okay, thank you. Alright, this item is open for a public hearing. So if anybody
would like to speak before the commission on this item, please come to the microphone and state
your name and address for the record. Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing and Uli, I
will let you make comments first since I know you have to leave in 5 minutes.
Sacchet: I don't have any issues with the subdivision, however I do feel a little uneasy about this
traffic thing. I would want, I want to express that for the record. That certainly if the traffic
study shows that there is no issue, then there is no issue but I'm a little bit concerned about the
safety of that place but I'm willing to pass it through as proposed.
10
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Blackowiak:. Okay, thank you.
Feik: I have concerns as well regarding the right-in/right-out. Converting that to a full access
intersection, particularly in light. There's currently no access from Century to 5. It is hard to
determine really how much of an impact that intersection and a newer access for all of the
corporate residents we have to the south of that. My other concern regarding that is daycare. The
prime time of pick-up and drop off of daycare is at the beginning and the end of the day. The
same time that people are trying to get to and from work, which is also the worst time to be
potentially, and not having the traffic study, crossing Century at that intersection when people are
dashing home and/or trying to get back to work so I have some reservations regarding that access.
Blackowiak: Okay, thanks. LuAnn.
Sidney: I have no problem with the subdivision since it is consistent with the PUD. I, guess one
comment, and this is more of an opinion about the traffic at this site. At these sites. I guess I
agree with Fred in that I think we're making a possibly a bigger deal out of it than it is. I walk
Coulter every day practically and I' ve seen traffic fluctuate but it's very sparse actually during the
day. And then this is even with people trying to bypass 5 and get out of the construction so I feel
fairly confident that the traffic study will come back positive.
Blackowiak: Okay, thanks. Comments.
Claybaugh: Yeah. I personally feel that there's some areas in Chanhassen that are testament to
the fact that there hasn't been enough focus put on traffic. I'm a little uncomfortable. The
development as a whole looks fine. And again, like my fellow commissioners I have some
concerns about not having a traffic study in front of us, specifically not knowing what
assumptions will be made based with that. As Fred stated, they're anticipating a single large
corporate user potentially but there could be diced up a number of different ways so, like my
fellow commissioners I think it's a good development. I like what's in front of us. I'd just like to
state that I' m a little uneasy without having that information in front of us.
Lillehaug: I also have comments regarding the same right-in/right-out access. I do hear your
internal traffic concerns, that you don't, that you would rather not have that traffic go back in
front of the Kindercare, and that is legitimate. But looking at the current left turn. North, dual
left turn lanes going onto Trunk Highway 5. They are dual left turn lanes, and by allowing a left
turning car to sit on Century Boulevard and wait for southbound traffic, it does create a safety
issue. To allow that left turning movement to the US Bank. And I do feel that this is a safety
issue. Regardless of what the traffic counts say, it only takes one car to be sitting there, and then
it becomes a safety issue. So I do have concerns with this and...any more comments.
Blackowiak: Okay Rich, any comments?
Slagle: Same concerns. Comment. I suspect that the traffic study would come back somewhat
favorable. I don't think I've seen a traffic study that's come back that's not favorable, and please
Fred, don't take that wrong but I' ve yet to see one that comes back not favorable to an applicant.
Here's a question. Would this commission be open, and I took this from Craig's comment.
Would this commission be open to tabling this until we have a traffic study? Is there a problem
with that?
Aanenson: I want to just make two points of clarification. One, we did have a traffic study that
came back and that was on the VanDeVeire piece that wanted the curb cut on West 78th, and the
11
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
same issue we had was that we wanted that curb cut further away from the intersection of Ga'lpin
and so that came back in favor of keeping the curb cut further down. Further to the east. They
wanted it closer to the intersection so one did come back in concurrence with our
recommendation. Just so you're clear, we took the narrowest interpretation here. What we're
doing is leaving the window open for them in good faith to look at that. And I think as Matt has
indicated, even though they may come back, the city doesn't have to agree with that position and
we'll present, if you want to make a statement of your own when it goes, but we want to give
them an opportunity that we're willing to look at that again in good faith so ultimately you can
make a recommendation with or without the traffic study or something amended with that but the
council will take all that into consideration. Did that make sense? And I guess that's what we're
saying to them. We want to give them an opportunity. Obviously it's important to US Bank and
we're saying we' 11 make that another piece of evidence when it goes up to the City Council.
Does that make sense?
Slagle: Okay. And I guess I would say I'm okay with it with those concerns and just as long as
we state those concerns pretty effectively.
Blackowiak: Would you be more comfortable if we left condition number 4 as is? Just knowing
that there might be further information...
Slagle: Yeah, I'd be okay with that. I'd be okay with that.
Blackowiak: ...before City Council. Okay. Alrighty. Yeah, and I've got the same traffic
concerns I think everyone else has addressed. If indeed there's a traffic study to be done, I would
hope it takes into consideration not only the right-in/right-out on the potential US Bank site, but
also Century, Highway 5, the cul-de-sac, the lot to the east of Century and also the effect that
Pulte is going to have on this because it's, I think it's not just the right-in/right-out we need to
look at. We need to look at the whole area and how a potential right-in/right-out or a turning
allowance, I don't know how you'd put it, right turn, left turn at that point would affect it. I think
one major assumption that's being made here is that the bank is the tenant and I think we need to
think about the fact that the bank might not be the tenant, or might not always be the tenant so the
question I would ask of my commissioners, fellow commissioners is, if the bank isn't the tenant,
do we still want to allow full turning, right-in/right-out and that's I guess a question I don't have
an answer to tonight but I would sort of throw that out for everyone just to think about because it
might be something else. It might turn into a fast food. I mean I've seen banks in the past turn
into fast food restaurants. Highway 7, there's a Taco Bell that used to be a bank and now it's a
Taco Bell and I look at that and I see possibilities. It's not always necessarily going to be a bank
so for what that's worth. I think traffic is a concern. And I like Matt's statement that you would
take it under advisement regardless of the results of the study. And Rich, if you'd be more
comfortable leaving it as 4 is, why don't you go ahead and make the motion. Thank you.
Slagle: Okay. The Planning Commission recommends approval of the preliminary plat for
Arboretum Business Park 4th Addition, plans prepared by, is it Schoell?
Claybaugh: Schoell.
Slagle: Schoell and Madson Inc dated April, 2002 subject to the following conditions 1 through
18. And my 18 on the very bottom is sort of messed up from the copying so I'm assuming that
18 is okay with folks. And I would just leave that as is unless there's some verbiage.
Blackowiak: I guess with the understanding that City Council might see a traffic study, okay.
12
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Slagle: Right.
Blackowiak: Alright, there's been a motion. Is there a second?
Feik: I'll second.
Slagle moved, Feik seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval of the
preliminary plat for Arboretum Business Park 4th Addition, plans prepared by Schoell &
Madson, Inc. dated April, 2002, subject to the following conditions:
.
The development shall comply with the Arboretum Business Park Development Design
Standards.
2. The developer shall pay trail fees pursuant to city ordinance.
.
.
o
.
.
10.
Prior to final plat approval, a professional civil engineer registered in the State of
Minnesota must sign all plans.
Revise the easterly side, full access to a fight-in/right-out access of Century Boulevard.
The applicant will be required to meet the existing site runoff rates for the 10 year and
I00 year, 24 hour storm events. Drainage and utility easements shall be dedicated on the
final plat over the public storm drainage system. The minimum easement width shall be
20 feet wide.
Type II silt fence shall be used. The applicant should be aware that any off-site grading
will require an easement from the appropriate property owner. Silt fence shall be
promptly removed upon completion of construction.
Installation of the private utilities for the site will require permits and inspections through
the City's Building Department.
Each newly created lot will be subject to City sanitary sewer and water hookup charges at
the time of building permit issuance. The 2002 trunk utility hookup charges are $1,383
per unit for sanitary sewer and $1,082 per unit for water.
Public utility improvements will be required to be constructed in accordance with the
City's latest edition of Standard Specifications and Detail Plates. Detailed construction
plans and specifications will be required at the time of final platting. The applicant will
also be required to enter into a development contract with the City and supply the
necessary financial security in the form of a letter of credit or cash escrow to guarantee
installation of the improvements and the conditions of final plat approval. Permits from
the appropriate regulatory agencies must be obtained, including but not limited to the
MPCA, Department of Health, Watershed District, Carver County, etc.
On the utility plan: · Show all the existing and proposed utility easements.
· Revise sheet title to "Preliminary Utility Plan".
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Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Eliminate the proposed storm sewer north of Lot 1; any stormwater must be
treated before discharging into a wetland or pond.
· Add 6" gave valve on the watermain going to Lots 2 and 3.
· Revise the sanitary sewer along the east side of Lots 1 and 2 to be within the lot
property limits.
11. On the grading plan:
· Add a note, "All sanitary services shall be 6" PVC SDR 26."
· Show the benchmark used for the site survey.
· Revise Sheet Title to "Preliminary Grading, Drainage & Erosion Control Plan".
· Remove the abandoned portion of the existing RCP 36 inch storm sewer.
12.
Cross-access easements for the shared driveway access must be obtained and recorded
against the lots.
13.
Dedicate Outlot B to the public right-of-way including a cul-de-sac bubble and build the
street according to City standards and specifications.
14.
Additional fire hydrants will be required. Contact Chanhassen Fire Marshal for exact
location.
15.
A 10 foot clear space must be maintained around fire hydrants, i.e. street lamps, trees,
bushes, shrubs, Qwest, Xcel Energy, cable TV and transformer boxes. This is to ensure
that fire hydrants can be quickly located and safely operated by firefighters. Pursuant to
Chanhassen City Ordinance #9-1.
16.
"No Parking Fire Lane" signs will be determined by the Fire Marshal upon a site plan
review of new proposed buildings.
17.
When fire protection, including fire apparatus access roads and water supplies for fire
protection is required to be installed, such protection shall be installed and made
serviceable prior to and during the time of construction. Pursuant to 1997 Minnesota
Uniform Fire Code Section 901-3.
18.
The total SWMP fees are $47,433.00 and are due payable to the City at the time of final
plat recording.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0.
Uli Sacchet left the meeting at this point.
14
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
PUBLIC HEARING:
CONSIDER THE REQUEST FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR A 3~066 SQUARE
FOOT COMMERCIAL OFFICE BUILDING ON A 1.07 ACRE SITE ZONED PLANNED
UNIT DEVELOPMENT AND LOCATED AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF
CENTURY BOULEVARD AND HWY 5~ ROTH DEVELOPMENT~ US BANK.
Kate Aanenson presented the staff report on this item.
Blackowiak: Okay, thank you. Commissioners, questions of staff.
Lillehaug: I have a question. You referred to the sanitary as being outside of private property
line. Shouldn't that be the watermain? I see the sanitary.
Saam: Yeah, it is the water. That was a typo.
Lillehaug: Okay.
Blackowiak: Any questions Craig?
Claybaugh: No, I didn't have any questions.
Blackowiak: Okay. LuAnn.
Sidney: Kate, you talk about the sidewalks and it looks like we have plenty of sidewalks on the
site, for that area. How about crosswalks to other lots to the east and such things, because I can
see people walking to the bank during lunch time or.
Aanenson: Right, and that was our concern or the daycare. Again, there's a sidewalk on Century
Boulevard. In fact they're also looking at something internal, whether it's on, whether you look
at it with this site plan or the other one that comes in. One that would run east and west to get
you over. Again, there will be a sidewalk down in the corporate way would require that when
that gets, but through here it may be appropriate. We've learned that with Market Square when
you're doing internal walking, it's risky at best when there's not a sidewalk.
Sidney: Okay.
Aanenson: Now that I've got my plan here. Again, this is the landscaping we talked about along
the perimeter of the berm. Again, higher because what is outside that right-of-way is actually the
MnDot right-of-way. The other, it's minor tweaking...the 24 foot driveway width. That needs to
be 26. Minor tweak. Can be accomplished. Same with the berms. Again we're comfortable
with that but again some of the screening. We wanted to get...where we talked about the
windows on the different facias. Again those are highlight as part of the...taking of the one sign
there and the two additional windows over here. With the canopy again drawing your eye across
I think with those additional changes, tweaking of a couple of the minor site plan issues, and I
believe that can all be accomplished. We are recommending approval.
Blackowiak: Okay, thanks. Bruce, questions?
Feik: Yes. A couple. First Kate, on the top of page 4 where you said that the plan subject to
modifications contained in the staff report appears to meet or exceed the development standards.
15
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Could you be a little more clear? It does with exceptions or it doesn't? Appears is a little soft.
Wishy-washy.
Aanenson: I'll just say I concur with that. It appears a little soft wordage. It should say with
minor changes it would meet is what it should say.
Feik: Okay. And the changes are fully incorporated in the recommendation?
Aanenson: No. You need to add the one regarding EFIS needs to meet the design standards.
Feik: Okay.
Aanenson: That needs to be added. And I believe the driveway, has that been added?
Saam: No.
Aanenson: No, that also needs to be added. The 24 feet needs to be changed to 26. And again
that should be no problem. The windows is a condition and they have already agreed to meet
that.
Feik: Okay. Another quick question. Could you, before this goes to council, would you please
double check on the landscaping plan. I ran a little bit short when I counted the shrubs and trees
all around. I only got 15 yews and 8 of the sugar maples so would you just double check that. I
may certainly be wrong though. That's it for me.
Blackowiak: Okay. Rich, go ahead.
Slagle: Just 2 questions. Kate, where do we stand then on the sidewalk and where do we stand
on the connection down to what I'll call corporate way?
Aanenson: There is a sidewalk along Century Boulevard. What I'm saying is there is not an
internal sidewalk on that right-of-way.., show you the subdivision map on that. Again this is the
private street. There is no sidewalk shown on that so what I'm saying is, you can look at
something with this. We didn't address it. More than likely it could be addressed with the south,
this piece which...to do a sidewalk as a part, kind of integrated with their site plan.
Slagle: Okay. My thoughts to fellow commissioners is I would do that on that southern lot just
because of the drive-in and drive-out of the US Bank parking. Not the right-in/right-out, but just
the fact that cars are going in and out of US Bank.
Aanenson: Just the function of the building.
Slagle: I wouldn't put a sidewalk there, but my question is, where do we stand on that road going
to the south? A private drive. Is that a done deal or is that still open?
Aanenson: This will, this is a connection back to the street. There will be this turn movement.
Slagle: Okay, so people can pull into US Bank and then if they chose to want to get back to 5,
they can go down that southerly road next to the Kindercare, right there and then take a left and
then take another left to go up Century?
16
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Aanenson: Correct.
Slagle: Because the bad thing about our right-in/right-out for US Bank is that you'll have people
taking, as they go into US Bank, they'll come out. Take a right. Go down probably to Century
and Coulter and take a U turn to get back up to 5. So that's the down side of a right-in/right-out,
but I just want to make sure that that part of that private drive is there. I didn't,.I mean it's not in
the conditions so I'm assuming it's just part of the proposal.
Aanenson: Well Kindercare is coming in too and they need this access.
Slagle: Okay but north/south, that's a for sure?
Aanenson: Yes.
Slagle: Okay, great. Okay.
Aanenson: That's...of their development...cross access agreement and that will be a condition of
the project.
Slagle: Okay.
Aanenson: Just make sure there's a condition. Cross access agreements.
Slagle: Okay, good. Thanks.
Blackowiak: Thanks. Kate just one quick question. Rich brought up a good point about the
north versus south sidewalk. Does staff have a preference?
Aanenson: I concur. It should probably be on the south side based on the trip movements in the
bank.
Blackowiak: Alright. Well I would just hope that when that south piece comes in that we don't
forget that. Make a note of that.
Slagle: If we could hear the applicant, when they talk, it'd be nice to hear the...
Blackowiak: Okay. Well let's have the applicant or their designee come up and give us his
opinion on this. State your name and address for the record please.
Fred Richter: Fred Richter with Steiner Development and with me tonight is Bill Northcott from
Asset Advisors, representing US Bank and he, or his company will be the actual owner of the
project. He has built several of these around the country. As you probably know, US Bank
became larger being acquired by Firstar and so he comes from the Cincinnati area and Louisville,
their real estate is headquartered and they operate banks all the way from there to Seattle and
California to... We've enjoyed having working with him and this experience of taking a
prototype and adapting it and we're quite pleased when we saw the architecture of it because we
feel given the small nature of the building, the kind of cube with a gables and kind of legitimate
traditional feel to it... I'll keep going here and talk a little bit about the comments and building
and... We met with staff, went over things today and got Bill up to speed. The 3 windows will
be added. There will be 2 on the, I was impressed with how Kate shuffled this paper... Okay this
17
Planning Commission Meeting- May 21, 2002
does show, there will be 2 windows on each side and one on the north side. I think the sidewalk
issue, I guess I'd ask staff, isn't the walkway on the east side of Century.
Aanenson: Correct.
Fred Richter: And that is it, right? There won't be one on the west side?
Saam: Yeah, there's one on the west side.
Fred Richter: So moving people into here from that, they'll have to cross Century. We do want
to extend this down so we can grab people. I concur it probably makes the most sense on the
south. And we are familiar with the city' s intention of trying to take this kind of car dominated
environment and make it somewhat conducive to people walking. That is part of our...this one
will too as best we can. The comments on the, going back to the elevation. I just think we're all
kind of getting used to some of the new ordinances. The EFIS we just picked up this evening and
my only comment on that, I think we' ve seen the building. I think it has good proportions to it.
It's not going to be easy to just do a minor tweak on that and there's some logic to the EFIS. The
overhang was an integral part covering the canopy over the drive thru. And there's pneumatic
tubes and other things and structure and that kind of just set that dimension, which it kind of
wraps around the building. I think kind of given that, I'd like to see those proportions just stay.
Other than that.
Blackowiak: Excuse me Mr. Richter. Kate, is that, if it were to stay, would that be a variance or
what are we looking at with design standards?
Fred Richter: ...what would be a traditional architecture. Cornices and soffits and that and it's
been a pretty good job of balancing that and aligning itself with it's new constraints which are the
canopy over the cars and so forth.
Aanenson: Right, and we do want the break in the roof line which they've accomplished and so
that's I think.
Blackowiak: Yeah I just want to make clear that we as a commission are kind of following the
rules and making sure that we're.
Aanenson: It would require a variance if it didn't, right. So I think we can work something out.
Blackowiak: Okay. As long as you're comfortable. Craig do you have a question?
Claybaugh: Kate, what is the percentage of overage?
Aanenson: 15.
Claybaugh: They're 15 percent over?
Aanenson: No. No, they're about 5 percent over.
Claybaugh: 5 percent over of the allowable 15 percent.
Blackowiak: Alright, thank you. Excuse me, go ahead Mr. Richter. If you have anything else.
18
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Fred Richter: I think that's it. You've got to hear Bill's accent.
Blackowiak: Alright, come on up. At least get you on the record, right.
Bill Northcott: My name's Bill Northcott and I'm with Asset Advisers and Roth Development
and we're the outsource broker for US Bank across the United States where we-not only do some
development for them, we also manage and do a maintenance program with their retail side real
estate, which is the branches. And we, like Fred said, we cover quite a bit of area from, we have
offices in Louisville and Cincinnati and we go to Portland. We have projects in Portland, Kansas,
just you know just a multitude of places. And I do want to commend you for your thoroughness
and probably the best prepared commission I've run into in a long time, and I do run into a few of
them so I do commend you on that. Sincerely. But this is king of a new prototype because the
conglomeration that's developed with mergers and acquisitions of the different banl~s...to start
with integrating these different old school of thought and so forth in the different plans. This is
kind of what the banks come up with, and it is, it's an attractive. We just finished one in, this
new prototype in Louisville and got several of them in one stage or another, this prototype and it
is very residential oriented versus retail oriented type of facility, and it would fit in I think very
well with Chanhassen, the attractiveness of this community so, and I'm open to any questions...
Blackowiak: Thank you, commissioners. Go ahead.
Sidney: Do you feel comfortable with what we discussed here this evening and conditions?
Bill Northcott: Yes. I think the traffic issue will come out to be a non-issue because some of my
background was commercial shopping centers and so forth and of course of any retail required
zoning, the bank use or financial institution is your least onerous or problematic with regards to
traffic. Of that retail sector, and I really believe that that will be a non-issue even though you can
look at any study and shoot holes into it or whatever, but I really think, you know I was kind of
surprised because, and what the bank was trying to accomplish on this particular site was to have
kind of it's own identity and you know, keep us away from Kindercare. Keep us away from the
office, you know we'd be a service for people with just in the ease of movement you know. The
Kindercare people can encroach on the bank traffic, but you hate to see bank encroach on the
Kindercare traffic, you know going that way so. And like you know, we've seen some situations
where, if it's a problem you can't come back and put a, what did you call these things. Pork chop
I believe is what you referred to that. And you can come back and put that in so, but I don't
really think it will be an issue and I think the traffic study will show that.
Sidney: Do you have actual photos of buildings like this that you could bring to council or have
available for council? I think that would be useful.
Bill Northcott: Yeah, we could have some. The one that's really finished, far enough along,
yeah. We could. They won't have the windows, and you know and I agree with you. I think the
windows would add aesthetically. I mean it would be more pleasing to, and this, there's been
another situation where the window issue came up and it wasn't pushed as much and the bank
didn't want to go that route and whether it's security or what, but I think real world, I mean
whether it's, they're artificial or they're actual functional windows, you know I agree with you. I
think windows would be more pleasing. That's just me. I didn't say that.
Blackowiak: We can erase that, don't worry.
19
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Bill Northcott: But like Fred said, on that EFIS situation, the pneumatic tubes go over that whole,
instead of going underneath the ground. That causes all sorts of problems. That's kind of a
cavity in there where they run those tubes and then from a design standpoint, it's just a
continuation of that section that they had to have on that drive thru.
Blackowiak: Okay, thanks. Commissioners, any other questions? No? Craig..
Claybaugh: I guess to expand on what you just said about the EFIS allowance on it. Kate stated
they're just going to work with the applicant at this stage or what?
Aanenson: Yeah, I mean.
Claybaugh: It's not a concern for us as a commission?
Aanenson: Well it has to meet the conditions so we're find some way to address that, and
whether it's over the canopy that they can adjust, we're going to find someplace where we can
make it work to get to the 15 percent. Otherwise it would require a variance.
Claybaugh: That's my question.
Blackowiak: Rich questions? No?
Lillehaug: I do have a quick question. On your Sheet Al, it has a shifted property line, the 13
feet. And that appears to extend through and south onto Lot 2. Is this shifted property line, does
this match up with what plat approval? Okay, but then it carries onto the south. Isn't there a
jog?
Fred Richter: There's a jog. I'll explain that to you...being prepared for Kindercare, which is
going in, actually they're taking the...so they'll have their own consultants so... What we have is
Kindercare always wanted their parking adjacent to their building. So all their parking, and
anybody along here will park and go into Kindercare. They really weren't concerned about
anything to the east. So they really wanted us to basically have this line go straight, but when the
bank finally fine tuned everything, with the drive thru and all, we didn't want to bring that traffic
in here so we started to separate it and that generated, which was 13 feet, we just took what is half
of 26 and moved the property line over to here. Further south the property line is down the
middle but here...on either side of center of the drive aisle so this is a shared easement. And then
in the future this building shares access all the way around.
Lillehaug: Okay.
Fred Richter: One other just clarification so we're. When we talked to Bill and staff today about
the glass, because he has to fine tune that with his people. It will be glass but it couldn't be spano
glass, and that's quite common. Spano glass is fake glass. Looks just like glass, but it functions
on the inside as no glass. And so he has that flexibility so you can make sure...
Blackowiak: And staff agrees with.
Aanenson: We have spano windows in other places in town.
Blackowiak: Americlnn and.
20
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Aanenson: There may be one location or two that we had to acquiesce and agree to spano but
certainly our first choice is to get the glass that may be on the most visible side or whatever so
we' re working with them on that.
Blackowiak: Okay, great.
Fred Richter: And we're encouraging it because we think it works well visually...
Blackowiak: Sure. Alright, thank you. This item is open for a public hearing so if anybody
would like to speak on this item, please come to the microphone. State your name and address
for the record. Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing. Commissioners, any additional
comments about this item? No?
Claybaugh: I think the, I'd just like to comment, reiterate what the applicant said. I like the
traditional look of the building and look forward to it going up.
Blackowiak: Alright. No? I don't really have anything either. As long as the staff works with
the applicant to clarify some of the issues that we brought up this evening, I think we'll be fine
and with the two additional conditions that we've discussed earlier, I think we need a motion.
Lillehaug: Prior to making this motion, by approving this site plan will the previous preliminary
plat's conditions apply to this site plan? For example right-in/right-out, or do we have to include
those conditions into the site plan?
Aanenson: I would probably put it in here again. That's probably appropriate, just to be clear.
,
Blackowiak: Or Kate could we say, that this site plan is contingent upon approval of the prior.
Aanenson: Correct. Just tie the two.
Blackowiak: Subdivision, or preliminary plat. Should we just make that a separate condition?
Aanenson: Sure.
Blackowiak: And encompass all it's conditions or something like that, okay. Okay, so now we
have 3 additional conditions. So with that, is somebody ready to make a motion?
Feik: Madam Chair, I'll make a motion. I motion that the Planning Commission recommend
approval of site plan 2002-4, plans prepared by Steiner Development Inc dated 4/12/02, subject to
the following conditions, 1 through 19 with the following additions. Number 20. The drive on
the northeast portion of the site leading to the drive thru be 26 feet. 21. The EFIS accent band
shall be modified to conform with the Highway 5 Design Criteria. And number 22. That this be
subject to.
Blackowiak: Or maybe contingent upon.
Feik: Contingent upon the approval of.
Aanenson: Arboretum Business Park 4m Addition.
Feik: Thank you.
21
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Blackowiak: Okay, there's been a motion.
Saam: Could I just add a suggestion? The drive aisle condition.
Feik: Yes.
Saam: You may want to re-word it since there's more than one drive aisle that's less than 26 feet.
Just say all drive aisles must meet minimum 26 feet wide.
Feik: Works for me.
Blackowiak: Okay.
Claybaugh: Additionally I've got a question for Kate. She brought up that cross access...
Blackowiak: Sure, I'll just ask. Kate, is there a cross access agreement condition in here?
Claybaugh: Does that need to be referenced with this?
Aanenson: I think it wouldn't hurt to put it in, just to be clear.
Blackowiak: Okay. So Craig go right ahead.
Claybaugh: Would that be 23? I'd like to make a friendly amendment. Include as item 23.
Reference the cross access agreement between the parcels.
Blackowiak: Okay, you accept that?
Feik: Very good.
Blackowiak: Okay, a motion. Is there a second please?
Claybaugh: Second.
Feik moved, Claybaugh seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval of
Site Plan ~2002-4, plans prepared by Steiner Development, Inc., dated 4/12/02, subject to
the following conditions:
1.
.
,
The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the City and provide the
necessary security to guarantee erosion control, site restoration and landscaping.
The lot must be final platted into a Lot and Block prior to the issuance of the building
permit.
The northern elevation requires an additional seven (7) feet of windows. The eastern
elevation requires an additional fourteen (14) feet of windows.
Monuments must be set back a minimum of V2 the required building setback, 15 feet from
Century Boulevard and 35 feet from Highway 5.
22
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
o
o
,
o
o
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
Wall signage shall be permitted on only the north and east building elevations.
All signs shall require a separate sign permit.
Applicant shall fully screen parking lots from adjacent roadways through the use of
berms.
Submit utility plans for review and approval.
A 10 foot clear space must be maintained around fire hydrants, i.e. street lamps, trees,
bushes, shrubs, Qwest, Xcel Energy, cable TV and transformer boxes. This is to ensure
that fire hydrants can be quickly located and safely operated by firefighters., Pursuant to
Chanhassen City Ordinance #9-1.
When fire protection, including fire apparatus access roads and water supplies for fire
protection is required to be installed, such protection shall be installed and made
serviceable prior to and during the time of construction. Pursuant to 1997 Minnesota
Uniform Fire Code Section 901-3.
A PIV (Post indicator valve) is required. Indicate on utility plans upon submittal.
Comply with the Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention division regarding
premise identification. Pursuant to Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention
Division Policy #29-1992. Copy enclosed.
Comply with water service installation policy for commercial and industrial buildings.
Pursuant to Inspection Division Water Service Installation Policy #34-1993. Copy
enclosed.
Comply with the Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Division regarding
maximum allowed size of domestic water on a combination/fire sprinkler supply line.
Pursuant to Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention ?Division Policy #36-1994.
Comply with the Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Division regarding notes
to be included on all site plans. Pursuant to Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention
Division Policy #4-1991.
Type II silt fence shall be used. The applicant should be aware that any off-site grading
will require an easement from the appropriate property owner. Silt fence shall be
promptly removed upon completion of construction.
Each newly created lot will be subject to city sanitary sewer and water hookup charges at
the time of building permit issuance. The 2002 trunk utility hookup charges are $1,383
per unit for sanitary sewer and $1,802 per unit for water.
The building plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the
State of Minnesota.
The owner and/or their representatives shall meet with the Inspections Division as soon
as possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures.
23
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
20. All drive aisles must meet a minimum width of 26 feet.
21.
The EFIS accent band shall be modified to conform with the Highway 5 Design
Criteria.
22. Approval is contingent upon approval of Arboretum Business Park 4th Addition.
23. Reference the cross access agreement between parcels.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Bruce Feik noted the Minutes of the Planning Commission
meeting dated May 7, 2002 as presented.
NEW/OLD BUSINESS.
Blackowiak: It's not on here but Kate, any new or old business ready to discuss?
Aanenson: Yes. I have hired a new planner, Ja'son Angell. He's working in Andover right now
and he would be joining us on June 3rd will be his first day. Very excited to start. So the other
thing I just want to let you know with what's on your agenda for June 4th. We do have a couple
of variances. Both relating to garages. We have a subdivision and a minor subdivision and we
also have a large subdivision which is called Vasserman Ridge which is the last piece of the
Dolejsi property, which surrounds the existing group home. Lundgren Brothers has an option on
that group home and they're coming in to plat the rest of that property so it would, it's 68 acres.
Almost 69 acres, so they'll do a portion of it now. They'll have one year to deal with the group
home and then plat the remaining portion of that so we haven't seen that large of a subdivision for
a while. Approximately almost 80 units so a full agenda next time.
Blackowiak: Alrighty. And Kate, do we have any idea on a potential joint meeting with City
Council? Do we have a date for that or is that going to happen?
Aanenson: Yes. It is, I meant to get you a notice on that. June 10th. That's a City Council
meeting. That's June l0th is a City Council meeting.
Blackowiak: Okay. I'm going to trust you on that.
Aanenson: I will get a notice out to you on that. I meant to do that with this packet. And then
also we'll have a work session item too talking about school locations at your next.
Blackowiak: That was in the packet this evening so we should just hang onto that maybe?
Aanenson: Yeah, and that will actually, we'll discuss that in more detail in our work session at
your next meeting. I'm checking my calendar real quick here to make sure June 10th. It is. That
is a regular City Council meeting so.
Blackowiak: Okay, so we would do what? Before the council meeting? What are we looking at
if we're going to?
Aanenson: That's I'm not sure yet. I'll put something in your packet on that but if you can block
off the 10th, I'll let you know...
24
Planning Commission Meeting - May 21, 2002
Blackowiak: Okay. Commissioners, any feeling on before or after the council meeting? I vote
for before. Anybody else?
Slagle: Yeah.
Feik: No preference.
Blackowiak: Okay. So if possible Kate, you know before would be better. Akighty, with that I
will adjourn the meeting and then we'll kind of pull some tables down for it and we'll have an
open discussion on the Truax property.
Chairwoman Blackowiak adjourned the Planning Commission meeting at 8:17,p.m.
Submitted by Kate Aanenson
Community Development Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
25
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 23, 2002
Chairman Franks calledthemeeting tO~0rder.at 7:30p. m:
,
MEMBERS PRESEN. T: R°dFranks~ TO~Kelly'
andGl6n ilar ~ ~ ~
MEMBERS ABSENT: Paula Atldns
STAFF PRESENT::
Superintendent;
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.;.
Chanhassen "Dis¢Ove~,,;maP
PUBLIC' ANNOUNCEMENTS:
:Hoffman:/Las[night they awarded
: are therunner-up~s
- Arbor Day is coming up
memberS, both in, WellJiterhliy
Park Pride Day, and:dO
: :participate~ look for tha and mark:itO"' i; 5
y°U h~ve a groUP; a s~all gt0up,~ a'nei~6rhb~d: gr0Up~-gi-~ti:ge gr0t~P~CW°uid i~e t°Piek UP5 a-'-C
~cati~n in Chanhassen~ y~u:~ust :n~e~t~ speak: ~Ji~ S~cia~;~E~vir~lun gnta~Res~c~ ./:`~:; ~
;:COOrdinator and sheq[ boOka
: an effort tOclean Up parks:in
:Franks:: Are~ thataiready'~J'?~:.¢:
Hoffman: The roadside: are.
~:: '~ 'H°ffman:~ :TheAd°pt , folks.
_
:.: ~r. Franks> WOnderful?
~Hoffman: :None
~ : ~:: QRGANIZATIONALITEM$::':~
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
to referred to our Park and Rec staff as the city's cheerleaders because they have so much energy
and so much excitement around the things that we do and this group is one of the most active as
far as our volunteers so we always appreciate everything that they do to make those events
successful so good luck to you and have fun as a group.
Franks: I too would like to thank all of you. It is great for me to see people that are willing to
give up their time and be away from their families and commit themselves to our community and
to your neighbors and to the residents. I know for me personally it's been a pretty fulfilling
process and it's my wish and hope that it will be for you personally, and that as a body together
we will be able to be a solid and strong and competent advisory body to the council, and to the
residents and to our greater city, so I welcome you all and hopefully we can get to work and we
won't let Todd be too much of a slave driver.
Hoffman: You drive me.
Franks: So he says. What I'd like to do Todd, if it's okay is, I don't know if all of the
commissioners themselves have had an opportunity to be introduced to each other...
Hoffman: No, that's great.
Franks: If we could take some time and maybe just start down here and introduce ourselves.
Happe: Sure. Do you want any more data other than I'm Dave Happe.
Franks: Well Dave we're not going to ask you the classics favorite food and.
Happe: Social security number, etc.
Franks: Just the last 4 digits please for security reasons.
Happe: 9699. And my wife and I have been in Chan for a couple of years. Most recently I've
been serving on the Library Building Committee and working on the City Center Park or City
Center Commons area. I'm real excited to be here and joining this commission.
Franks: And what neighborhood do you live in?
Happe: We live in Springfield right off of 101 and Lyman. Thank you.
Spizale: Hi. I'm Jack Spizale. I'm kind of a new resident also. I've lived here like about 2
years. Got 3 kids. 3 dogs. We live on 3 acres. And we live in the Timber Creek neighborhood
and we moved from Minnetrista and we absolutely love it here. And I kind of wanted to get
involved with the City and meet some people and so far it's been a very rewarding experience
being on this commission. But welcome.
Franks: I'm Rod Franks and I've lived in Chan about 12 years now I think and this is my fifth or
sixth year on the, entering into my sixth year on the commission. And we have seen just a
tremendous amount of growth. When I came on the commission we were just really
implementing all the park referendum projects and really seeing those finish up and, can be some
pretty exciting work at times. I look forward to getting to know all of you better, both as a part of
the commission and personally too. Welcome.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
O'Shea: I'm Amy O'Shea and I've lived in Chanhassen about 7 IA years. And I was in the
recreational field for 13 years and have noticed the great job that the Park and Rec staff has done
in Chanhassen, along with the commission and wanted to be part of it. We thoroughly enjoy
Chanhassen too. We're in the Meadow Run area over on, off of Galpin... on the north side of
Highway 5. And actually the thing I'm excited about in, on May 9th I'm going to graduate with
my MBA. It's been a long process. I'm a 4 year plan instead of 2 so that's happening in my
personal life and I'm very excited to be part of this group.
Kelly: My name's Tom Kelly, entering my second year of the commission. Been a Chanhassen
resident for about 9 years. I live in the same neighborhood as Dave, the Springfield
neighborhood off of Lyman.
Happe: Oh you do?
Kelly: Yep.
Stolar: I'm Glen Stolar. I've lived in Chan about 2 ½ years. I lived in Eden Prairie before there
xvhere I served on the Parks and Rec Commission in Eden Prairie for a couple years. And I live
at Summit at Near Mountain which is off of 101 near 62. And very excited about being on this
board.
Franks: Well we'll keep an eye on these Springfield guys.
Hoffman: Plus they have a private park.
Kelly: We paid for that the way we pay for that.
ELECTION OF CHAIR & VICE-CHAIR.
Franks: Todd, I'm wondering if you could just briefly summarize what the role of the Chair
would be for the commission.
Hoffinan: I sure can. Chair acts as the individual who operates our meetings. In most any
situation would act as the spokesperson for the commission if there were presentations before the
City Council. Although you'll notice one of the handouts you received is an assignment to the
City Council, so it's not just the Chair going to those meetings. On a rotating basis, there is an
item of park and recreation interest on the council agenda and it's your night for the meeting,
you'll be mailed that item in your mailbox and expected to attend that meeting to represent the
commission that evening. Other than that, the Chair is the person responsible for the public input
meetings, calling those folks to the podium and more or less organizing discussion of the meeting
on a day to day basis in that fashion. And then the Co-Chair acts as a person who would fill that
role in the absence of the Chair, and that happens time to time throughout the year. Anything else
that we're, those are the big issues.
Franks: Okay. At this time I would entertain any nominations for Chair of the commission.
Kelly: I would like to nominate Rod for Chair of the commission. He's the most senior member
on the commission. He really understands what's going on. He served as Vice-Chair, or assistant
Chair or whatever Chair during the past year. I think he would do a great job and he's already
sitting there.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
Franks: Is there a second?
Spizale: I second.
Franks: Is there any discussion? Are there any nominations? Seeing no further nominations, or
discussion.
Kelly moved, Spizale seconded to appoint Rod Franks as Chairman of the Park and
Recreation Commission. All voted in favor, except Franks who abstained, and the motion
carried.
Franks: Welt I appreciate the vote of confidence that you've now placed with me and I will
certainly pledge to wield this gavel in an appropriate manner. We still now do have to select a
Vice-Chair for the commission. Are there any nominations for Vice-Chair?
Spizale: I nominate Tom.
Franks: Is there a second to that nomination?
Stolar: Second.
Franks: Tom?
Kelly: That would be great.
Franks: Great. Is there any discussion?
Spizale moved, Stolar seconded to appoint Tom Kelly as Vice-Chair for the Park and
Recreation Commission. All voted in favor, except Kelly who abstained, and the motion
carried.
Franks: Great. Now you do have our names spelled correctly?
Hoffman: Yes.
Franks: Alright, good.
ESTABLISHMENT OF TRAINING PROGRAM SCHEDULE FOR NEW AND
EXISTING COMMISSIONERS.
Hoffman: Thank you Chair Franks, members of the commission. As I was saying before the
meeting officially was underway, we're going to take a few months and really get to know one
another. Get to know the city's park system. How the commission operates as an advisory body
to the City Council. How you can be most effective as individuals and as an organized body to
move forward the agenda or the desires of the community of Chanhassen in the area of parks and
recreation. So to do that we're going to have more than just a simple, what you would call an
orientation. We're going to go ahead and participate in some training over at the fire station.
They have a nice training room there that's been completely refurbished. One of our tasks this
evening is to identify a night which will work for all of the commissioners and then set aside
about a 3 to 3 '/2 hour block of time for that one particular evening. That won't be the full extent
of it. You'll also receive a variety of materials that have to do with our comprehensive plan, the
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
current park inventory and facility inventory that we have. I'm sure many of you are familiar
with our facilities already, but as a commission when neighbors, citizens come before you and
they start naming off places that they have an interest in or they have a desire to see
improvements made or changes or modifications or they're having a problem or they really like
what's going on in that area, we would like the commission to be familiar with that site so we'll
be taking some tours, and we'll do those tours probably the fh-st hour-hour and a half before your
meetings. Your upcoming meetings. We try to condense your nights so you're not meeting every
Tuesday of the month but the standard meeting is the fourth Tuesday and then you can expect to
meet very often on those second Tuesdays, especially through this first summer, so kind of break
those out on your calendar. The second Tuesday and the fourth Tuesday. All those printed
materials start to become very overwhelming so as we begin to hand those out and you get those
into view, we'll talk about just exactly what they mean. What is important about the
comprehensive plan? What does it say in it? It's the document that we use for gettihg things
done in the area, primarily of park and trail development. People come in and they say, we would
like to have access to a park or we want access just like the neighbor down the street, and a
comprehensive plan really takes care of that. It says every resident of our city will have a park
within a half mile of their front door. And that's a service level that has been maintained in our
community, and there are areas where it's not met and primarily those would be in the more rural,
southern part of our community where there's very large lots and we've tried, we've made an
attempt to connect those people through our trail system but they really don't have an expectation
that there will be a park within a half mile because you just, as a city could not provide that. But
in our highly developed areas, we have that service level already. So we'll go through this
videotape, training material. It's from an individual out of Illinois. Illinois, if you're at all
familiar with the park district, is a very strong state. They have elected park boards. Very nice
park systems and this individual is the Executive Director of the Illinois State Park Association.
Ted Fletchinger and I've watched about 3/4 of the tape now. We have the printed material that
will walk through as a group and it takes, it introduces the concept and then we take some break
out time to talk about that. Take a few notes and then we move onto the next area. Obviously
this is a broad, it's on boardsmanship. How do you effectively serve on a board or a commission?
So it's a broad coverage but it's, so it's not focused on Chanhassen but it gives us a nice overview
of what boards and commissions are expected to do and some of the different issues that you'll
face. So we'll get through all of those things. And then as I mentioned earlier, one of the first
things we'll be taking a look at is our 2003 Capital Improvement Program and we have a 5 year
CIP or Capital hnprovement Program that you have to establish a recommendation for the
council. We have some reporting to do at the year end on council's behalf, and then we have a
variety of issues that we're really, I would say issues that the commission prior to this
commission was, they were working on. Memorial Park. Adopt a Park. Some other issues that
we'll talk about as a group and see if you want to pick those up. If they're a priority for this
commission or if you have other ideas as well so please at any time bring forward your ideas.
We're not going to start out on a real heavy agenda basis. Not going to start throwing all these
things that we've had on the back burner for a long time right before this commission and say
let's solve all these issues. There will be things that are placed on your agenda that are just
automatic because they're a scheduled part of our, if you want to call it a governmental process.
When a subdivision comes before the Planning Commission, this body needs to take a look at that
and decide, does this area have sufficient park service. Is there a trail adjacent to this property or
is there a section of our comprehensive trail that goes right through the middle of this property?
If that' s the case, then we need to acquire some easements or outlot or right-of-way to
accommodate that trail. And so when those subdivision applications come through, or those
platting processes come through, you'll see them on your agenda and we'll do a presentation.
And if it's a fairly large subdivision, you'll have the developer here in the council chambers with
you and they may like what we're doing, they may dislike what we're doing, but we're making a
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
recommendation to the council based on the comprehensive plan and we're asking for conditions
of approval of that platting process. The power of this body and the council has with the
developer is through the subdivision process. Any time they apply for a subdivision the city has
the right to come in and place those conditions of approval on it. And we can take approximately
10 percent of the property for park use if you so desire, and we can ask for trail easements and
trail construction and a variety of different things when you go through that process. And what
they call the essential nexus for that to happen is the fact that these developers are bringing new
homeowners into the community and there's not an expectation that the existing homeowners
should take care of their park and trail and recreation needs. They need to pay their own way in
those areas and they pay that through the park and trail fees, or the park dedication as a part of
that process. So we'll talk about that. We may in fact bring in Roger Knutson, the City Attorney
to talk about that one evening. It's a very important concept, especially in, we've gpne through a
lot of that for about the last 10 or 15 years in huge expansion in our residential areas and our park
systems. We've probably gone from about a dozen or 15 parks, up over 27, 28 park locations
currently. And we continue to diversify what kind of parklands we are acquiring. It used to be
your standard or traditional neighborhood park. Now we're starting to see a lot more interest and
we're branching off into these, what you would call park preserves. They're ,just open space
areas. The most recent Fox acquisition, or as a part of the last referendum was one of those. And
we also had a donation, what is called half donation and then half through park dedication. If you
drive west on Highway 5, and you look south into what now is called the Chanhassen Nature
Preserve. That is just west of the Chanhassen Elementary School. It's 110 acres. It's the largest
preserve of open space in Chanhassen other than the Arboretum or the County park and so those
are important areas that right now people don't recognize them because the trail system's not
completed. There's still some work to do there but that's an area that I think this commission and
the council, if you talk to them, are starting to focus on. Why do they move here? They like the
downtown but they also like that sense of open space and the sense of rural feel, and anything this
group can do to preserve that, they want to make sure that that can happen. So we'll talk about
those things. We'll go through this training. You'll see agendas come to your door the week
before the meetings. Typically on a Wednesday-Thursday schedule. Something like that. The
police will drop them off so please let your neighbors and your dogs and your children and
everyone know that the cops are going to be stopping at the house once in a while, and they're
just there for really, city delivery business. Most of all, Jerry's been with the department going
on 12 years, and I've been here for just coming up on 15 years now. We enjoy working for the
residents. We enjoy working with the councils and the commissions. I always like to say, you
know there's a lot to do. There's more to do than we can ever accomplish so let's pick some
things that everybody can get along on and have some fun along the way and make some
accomplishments. I'm a huge believer in taking baby steps and then they end up making big
accomplishments. If everybody comes in thinking you're going to bite off big chunks and just
accomplish them overnight, it's not going to happen. But just do little things. Let it accumulate
and in 4 or 5, 10 years down the line, people will start to look back and they go boy, those folks
were thinking. They got some things done so that's my philosophy in how we get work done.
But all of us think a little bit differently. We tend to be a fairly open body in communication and
we like to hear ideas and knock some things around. The items that, you know Lake Ann Park.
The trail system, the rec center. Many of those things started right here, right at this group and
when somebody said why aren't we doing that. Or I was talking to somebody the other day and
they said you know, what about this. And it's just those little things that start at this level and
then there was a recommendation made to the City Council. The Council goes along with that
and a great example is Bandimere Community Park. Bandimere Community Park was never an
idea until somebody said let's, we need to acquire some parkland in southern Chanhassen because
there's just not a lot do~vn there. And the Council agreed with that. Councilman Boyt at the time
said, they were approving a referendum ballot and he said, look at that. There's no question
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
about parkland in southern Chanhassen and the Park Commission's been talking about that. Let's
put it on there. Alright, well what will it say? Well, shall the City of Chanhassen sell general
obligation bonds to acquire parkland in southern Chanhassen? Sounds good. How much? Well
$300,000. Alright. So boom. Away it goes. It passed by 4 votes. 4 votes. Put on the ballot,
and the City acquired the best acquisition at the best price, the best value that the City has ever
acquired. 32 acres of land for just over $180,000. Back in about 1989. Coming right up on '90.
This commission, the same commission, less than 10 years later, considered selling that property
for something over a million 2. So purchased for 180. Less than 10 years later it's valued at a
million 2 to a developer. The problem was if we sold it, you'd have to go buy another piece for
the million 2 so it really didn't make any sense at the time. It was just a very neat example of
what the value of that property. And then the last referendum was to develop the property.
Again, started at a community basis. Citizens said, we don't have enough soccer fields in this
town and the Park Commission recommended the City Council hold a referendum. Terrible time
to hold a referendum. High tax sensitivity. Went through a study and the study said, don't do it.
And the task force that was assembled at the time, they backed off and those people ended up
serving for about 3 years and they said you know what, we have so much invested that we think
even though there's a high tax climate, people will go ahead and support parks and recreation and
open space in the city. They passed a referendum and Bandimere Park was constructed and today
it's seen as the finest facility that we know of in the southwest metro for soccer and other athletic
adventures so. Those are some of the stories that we want you people to be involved in. We want
you to do those things for the future of the community. Cities last forever. The things you do
here today will be here 1 O0 years from now and they'll have impacts on those people's lives 100
years from now so think big. Think globally and everybody's going to have a lot of fun along the
way. I'll be quiet.
Franks: Are we looking Todd to establish a specific date for that training?
Hoffman: Yes. Tonight pick out a Tuesday evening or Thursday evening and I should grab my
calendar...don't have it with me.
Franks: Would this be a good time to do that?
Hoffman: Absolutely.
Franks: Alright. Did everyone have their calendars...what your schedule is. What month are
you looking to do that in?
Hoffman: I would think May.
Franks: The second Tuesday in May is the 14th. Our regularly scheduled meeting would be on
the 28th.
Hoffman: We're on the 29th because of Memorial.
Franks: Are you thinking that the, you mentioned a Tuesday or Thursday. I'm wondering if we
just shouldn't, if we can, stick to the second and fourth Tuesday. Just so we can all get used to
that schedule.
Hoffman: 14th works for me.
Franks: How about for other people?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
Spizale: Works. Yeah, good for me.
Franks: About what time Todd?
Hoffman: I believe we need to start about 6:00.
Stolar: How long did you say the video presentation was Todd?
Hoffman: Well we're going to be, it's 110 minutes so it will take us a minimum 3 hours. 3 1/2
hours to get through that.
Franks: And we park right at the fire station?
Hoffman: You can park, yeah we'll give you directions. We'll send out a packet. There will be
parking in the back part of the lot.
Franks: If you're unable to attend or something comes up, would you please communicate with
Todd. If it looks like people are canceling then you'll be in touch with all of us and reschedule
it. As it stands then we'll consider Tuesday, May 14th for our video training and begin at about
6:00 at the main Chanhassen Fire Station. Great.
Hoffman: Thanks Rod.
Franks: Thanks Todd.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Hoffinan: This will be an interesting vote where you actually don't have a quorum.
Franks: I'm sorry?
Hoffman: This is an interesting vote. We don't have a quorum.
Franks: Yeah, well I was going to ask you about that. What you do in a situation like that where,
can we vote to approve the minutes?
Hoffman: Probably.
Franks: Understand that it will be a non-quorum vote, but Jack or Tom, are there any additions or
changes you have to the minutes?
Kelly: No.
Spizale: No.
Franks: I don't either. Seeing none, is there a motion to approve?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
Spizale moved, Kelly seconded to approve the minutes of the Park and Recreation
Commission meeting dated March 26, 2002 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
RECREATION PROGRAMS:
A. SPRING CANDY HUNT EVALUATION.
Ruegemer: Thank you Chair Franks, and the rest of the commission. I'm not sure how many, I
know Rod was out there. The Mayor was out there. At the candy hunt.
Franks: Jerry, could you excuse us for a minute. Thank you Mayor for stopping by,. We
appreciate your support.
Mayor Jansen: I'm only leaving to go attend the District 112 meeting tonight. Facility planning.
Franks: And we'll understand that you would rather stay here with us.
Mayor Jansen: Absolutely. Good night.
Franks: Thanks. Sorry.
Ruegemer: No problem. The candy hunt was held on Saturday, March 30th out at the Chan Rec
Center. It was a pretty nice day out there. Little, it was sunny at least. We had probably the
biggest crowd ever that we've ever had out there. Probably 900 to 1,000 people, and it was quite
wild. It was very well attended. There wasn't a, during the Splatter Sisters performance...had
kind of looked at these Splatter Sisters and kind of participated in that whole event which was
nice. People are coming for the entertainment as well as the candy so. And we did have help
again from the Key Club members from the High School. From Chaska High School and also the
Boy Scouts helped out so we had plenty of volunteers for that and they help anywhere from
distributing the candy. Handing out the bags for the candy. Helping out with the parent
drawings. Crowd control. A lot of different things they helped us out with and they had I think
close to 40 volunteers for that with both groups so. They save us a lot of headaches with that and
they do a great job and they're always there to help out so, they'll be back again next year. We
certainly, the Rec Center does certainly lend itself to providing a nice, quality recreation facility
for events such as this and we will continue to operate that, this event out there as well as the
Halloween Party and those sort of things. Just recommendations for next year. Again, we're not
going to be listing the start times again for the candy hunt. It certainly seemed to have people
there ahead of time which was nice. I think what we need to do is certainly hand out the candy
bags and that to people as they come in. A lot of people did grab them on their way in. Also on
the way out of the gym and also outside the doors as they're heading kind of outside the doors.
We're going to look at adding a 3 year old category for the coloring contest. It may be a little bit
young but we're going to investigate it and discuss it I guess next year when we come to that
point but haven't had a lot of call for that. Just a suggestion to look at for next year. It works out
nice. We do put the recreation facility for the event out the day before so we do have
opportunities to get in and do set up. Hang a lot of the pictures up and get a lot of the facility
ready for the event, which really helps so we can bring the candy right from Target out to the
conference room and get it all separated and ready to go, and that saves us a lot of time the day of
the event so everything will just kind of flow once we get there. We did, Corey Hoen, the Rec
Supervisor and myself, we did go to Target. Purchased about 11,000 pieces of candy and that
wasn't enough. We had a lot of people this year so we're going to get at least 15,000 probably
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
next year, pieces of candy so everybody can go away with a nice bag of candy so. That's always
kind of a fun event. We do get a lot of looks at Target and a lot of curious people asking us what
we're doing so it's kind of a fun thing. We do a lot of educating in the aisles of Target as to what
we're doing so it's kind of fun.
Hoffman: Shopping cart full of candy.
Ruegemer: So it's a fun event. This year, with Easter being a little bit earlier this year, we did
kind of run into some wet conditions out at the Rec Center. We did host the event just outside the
entrance of the front doors there. That area is a little cramped. However, it does work as kind of
a, that was kind of our Plan B/Plan C if we got down the line a little bit farther there but certainly
our first choice is to go north of the Recreation Center. North of the warming house, and that kind
of big, large area by Fields 2 and 3, but those areas in some places were, the water was ankle deep
in some areas. We didn't think that would be a real good scenario for kids on a cold day so. But
it does work. You know we did have a few snow banks and that to kind of, as obstacles but with
that many people we certainly need to kind of spread out a little bit more and we'll certainly take
a look at that again for next year. Going north of that area. And really, one thing we need to
resolve tonight is certainly as a staff we've been talking about changing the name of the event. It
was the Easter Egg Candy Hunt, and has been for 15-16 years. But in light of being responsible,
being sensitive we should look at some alternatives tonight and Corey just kind of had a couple
suggestions. The Spring Candy Hunt and Coloring Contest. The Spring Fling or the Spring
Eggstravaganza. I'm sorry, Eggtravagance. These are just suggestions and if the commission has
any other ideas to rename, we're certainly up for opinions and discussion at this time so. If you'd
just, we can, I'll just go over real quick through the financials. You can see on the back of the
page there is the Target, the prizes. At Target the candy and the prizes and the entertainment for
a total of, a little bit over $1,600. And just as an educational point for the new commissioners. A
lot of the money, or the expenses that we have in the Easter Egg Candy Hunt are covered through
our annual sponsorship program. In October-November of every year we send out letters to all
the businesses once a year and kind of ask for their support for all these events. In cash, prizes,
donations, a lot of those types of things. We take in roughly about $26,000 to $28,000 a year in
cash, contributions, gift certificates, product, a lot of these types of things so. A lot of the
expenses that we have are certainly incorporated within the sponsorship program. That money
goes into the general fund, however we do identify that through our budget process in our
recreation budget. So with that I'd like to turn it back to Chair Franks and the commissioners to
come up with a new name.
Franks: Thank you Jerry. Before we move into comments, are there any commissioners with
questions for Jerry about... Okay. Well let's just, to keep this a little orderly so we're not talking
back and forth and just hear what everyone has to say and we'll start down on your end and work
this way.
Stolar: Has anyone asked that the name be changed?
Ruegemer: Pardon me?
Stolar: Has anyone asked that the name be changed? Okay... For the purpose of the records, I
would be one of the religious groups that doesn't celebrate Easter and I think it's an Easter Egg
Candy Hunt. It's what it is, and I'm fine with that. So, there you are. I mean if you haven't had
it pointed out, I don't see any reason to change but if you force me to pick one, I do like the
Spring Eggstravaganza. I think that's kind of creative.
10
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
Franks: Tom.
Kelly: I'm in total agreement with that. I think it as the Easter Egg Candy Hunt but if we have to
change the name I do like the Spring Eggstravaganza. But I'd prefer to leave it as an Easter Egg
Candy Hunt.
Franks: Okay, Tom. Thanks. Amy.
O'Shea: I do like the way it is but again if we're forced to change, I think I'd keep the Candy
Hunt because I think Eggstravaganza might be hard for the kids to say. So I tend to make it
simple and I don't know if Candy Hunt is the best but thinking right now that's what I would lean
towards. Something that the kids could relate to.
Franks: Jerry, a couple of things. One is, you have to re-set the gym for the entertainment
because the people trying to sit behind the group doing the entertainment just didn't work at all.
And the space created like a prime avenue for children to get out of control and you could see that
it was bothering the Splatter Sisters because they were worded about their equipment. Kids are
tripping over the extension cords. The...helpers were trying but.
Ruegemer: There was some artistic differences on that the morning of. I made that suggestion to
back up, and.
Hoffman: With the Splatter Sisters? Yeah.
Ruegemer: But.
Franks: And do those bleachers, they don't go any higher than that do they? So they were
extended fully already. Okay. But that was the one thing that I would say. And the second thing
is, I personally liked having the candy hunt area out there in front of the rec center. That place is
grass. It's seeded well and it doesn't get trampled during the sports season and get quite so
mushy and muddy as the rest of the field, so if we can better count on that being a place to do the
candy. I thought the space set aside was large enough for the kids in each group to have time.
My suggestion would be to leave the gym out that back door of the gym, and have age group
staging areas outside that area, right off the sidewalk in that field space just north of the gym.
And even if we had something where it was like a photo opportunity for each group, with the
bunnies that were there. I think there were like 3, at least 2 that I saw, but the staging areas have
like a little set-up so that could occupy people's time while they're waiting. And then you could
call the groups around the comer of the building. So you wouldn't be in direct...you guys
throwing out the candy and dropping the golden egg and that whole thing and then they could
come around. When that group is finished they could go right to the parking lot and leave. Just
kind of a flow. Because people were going out that gym door anyway, and if we had it set up, I
think that would work good. With the other thing is, purchasing so much candy. Is it time or a
possibility to consider one of the vendors that the city works with as a source for just buying
candy in huge bulk and potentially at a discount or something like that? I don't know, it's not
like 10 years ago when we needed some candy and we'cruise to Target and get it. I mean we're
talking such a significant amount of candy, it'd be easy to get a delivery for that amount of candy.
And I don't know if any vendors would be interested in doing something like that.
Ruegemer: Yeah, we can investigate that. I mean we've looked at other avenues as far as like a
Sam's Club and that sort of thing. Or even buy a case price at Target but yeah, we certainly could
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
take a look into that. Certainly. Depending who the manager was at Target, we used to get a
little discount on that but that changes through the years.
Franks: I mean it's always a consideration too, and I like the idea of having the 3 year old age
group for the coloring contest too. About the name. You know I'm going to echo the same
sentiments as the commissioners ahead of me. If the community is not necessarily requesting the
change, although we should be prepared to make a change when it's something that is seeming
like it's being asked for, then you should... If it's not something that's really being requested of
us at this time, I don't know if we should go ahead and make the change. Part of the feeling is,
it's one of those things where, you know it's going to offend some people either way and if right
now it's being accepted for what it is, then maybe we'll stick with that as long as it seems that it's
being accepted. When it's no longer being accepted, then I think that's the time that we should
really consider changing it.
Spizale: I have to say I agree with the other commissioners that if it's not broke, why fix it.
Nobody's complained about it. I think everybody understands what it is and I don't think we
need to change it yet. That's all I got.
Franks: Thanks Jack.
Happe: Jerry, what a great report. The most fun event with...mm on investment for $1,682,
sounds like we got great bang for the buck. I agree I guess with Glen's original point. I
appreciate the fact that staff brought this up. I think it's important that we, I think it's great that
you guys were very sensitive to that. At this point I'd agree with my other commissioners and I'd
like to leave it the way it is, unless change is mandated.
Ruegemer: Do I need a motion for that?
Stolar: I also appreciate the thoughtfulness of the staff, but it's fun. It's fun the way it is.
Franks: You know what we would appreciate, and I'm sure that you would do it but just to make
it clear for the rest...would be very interested as a commission in hearing if this type of request or
concern is being made by residents. Bring that to our attention.
Hoffman: I think the Easter one was born out of a sensitivity about the Christmas Tree lighting,
and so we might want to talk about that as a group as well. Should that, in the park as a part of
the library we refer to it as a holiday tree and so...cities traditionally have been involved in
stringing Christmas Tree lights but there's some change in the wind in that area as well. They
can call it a holiday tree or a holiday lighting, but there's a fine line. There's not a big difference
there. People still recognize it as a symbol so.
4TM OF JULY CELEBRATION PREVIEW.
Ruegemer: It's coming up fast, isn't it? Corey's been busy working on the schedule of events.
As you see on the back of the memo, that is the tentative schedule of events. The event this year
will be Wednesday, July 3rd and Thursday, July 4th. Corey's been busy I know working and
talking to a lot of different food vendors. Famous Dave's has been mentioned in the last couple
days here so they may be coming in as part of the food vendor. You can see kind of listed down
below there's a lot of different combinations of food and so hopefully that should appeal to a lot
of different tastes. And that is Kettle Korn and not Kettle Korn Sno-Cones so just, we're missing
a comma on that one so.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
Franks: That's a unique combination.
Ruegemer: And we as a staff has really been talking about moving, the event will move from
down south here, back up on top with the library project going in down in this area. We will be
going back up on top again. I think we moved down here in '96, and now we'll be going back up
and having the big tents and a lot of the activities just north of City Hall in the grassy area up
there, so we're certainly, we have a layout and a map of that area already kind of secured or in
place and we'll be kind of going through and kind of recognizing a lot of the components that we
need to do and placement to make that event successful so. That's coming up again. I will be the
parade contact again for that. In fact conversations with the parade committee already up to this
point and we'll be meeting as a group again probably in May sometime, and we'll be kind of
going through a lot of the I guess different components to that event as well. That p,arade also
started as part of the Chanhassen Centennial back in 1996. It started out to be a one, just a one
time event and upon the success of that first parade, it continued so it's been an annual event
every year since 1996. So last year I think we had around 70 or 80 floats and I would anticipate
that again this year. I know that with school funding a lot of those types of things, the marching
band price did go up again this year so we'll be looking at additional revenue sources to pay those
type of entertainment as well so. But it's coming up. I'm not sure if everybody's seen the logo
yet but as a community, the Chamber of Commerce approached the City in doing kind of a
cooperative venture, along with that. The basic kind of idea behind that, the concept of the logo
design was to have local students kind of design as part of their art, kind of part of their art
classes and that sort of thing at both the High School, the Chaska High School, is it Holy...in
Victoria and kind of all the local schools here. High school. They were asked to submit kind of
their vision of kind of the theme was, what is a hero this year in light of what happened with 9-11
this year. All those are submitted. All those ideas. All that artwork is submitted and a design
was picked last week with that. And the winning person I believe got $1,000 for their efforts.
Just kind of a fund raiser. Local businesses will be selling these t-shirts as a fund raiser and also
the Chamber is part of that selection process. I think the winning person was selected from the
Chaska High School, so then their art department will also receive $250 contribution as kind of a
recognition of their achievement as well so. We were involved in that. We do 4th of July t-shirts
every year for, as part of our sponsorship program. We give out roughly about 300 to 400 shirts
for all our businesses so we were certainly willing to do a cooperative effort between the
Chamber and the local businesses and the City so. This is kind of a fun event that Corey's been
involved with. I was involved in it too a little bit early on and so those should be hitting the
streets here fairly soon. We'll get you one.
Franks: So it can be worn when we volunteer.
Hoffman: That's correct.
Franks: Any questions for Jerry? Any commissioners have any comments about the 4th of July
celebration?
Happe: I've got a couple.
Franks: Dave.
Happe: Of course the library will be under construction obviously at that point. I don't know if
that has any bearing on any of the parade route or any of the plans for that but just a comment for
you. And then the other one was, I remember from last year, which by the way was my favorite
event of the year but I remember there being a letter to the editor and maybe not a lot but a little
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
bit of flack over the beer garden. And just wondering if that is an issue that should be brought up
again this year. If we should re-evaluate either how that was done, or whether or not that's
necessary as part of this event.
Hoffman: We were sensitive to that as well. It's not the only comment, the one they made in the
paper. There were other comments that staff got. The Rotary's the sponsor of the beer garden.
They sell $10,000 worth of beer in a single evening and it's a big concession for that particular
group, but we want people to celebrate responsibly and so towards that effort I will be asking the
Rotary to go ahead and pay for two police officers, or Carver County Deputies to patrol the beer
garden as an added sense of security so. There are Carver County people there already, but
they're not just assigned to the beer garden. If they get a call, they can leave so to increase that,
the security we want to have those people assigned specifically. And to those kind o,f volumes
and dollar amounts, they can certainly afford to finance that security.
Happe: Where was the beer garden last year?
Hoffman: It's alxvays right under the main tent.
Happe: Okay. That's all I have.
Spizale: I had one comment. I went to my first one last year and enjoyed it immensely. Enjoyed
volunteering. Enjoyed all the events. The only negative I could see to the whole thing was, and it
seems like we're getting more. I felt we were a little short of food vendors. It just seemed like
the lines were completely long to get basic food. You know like we spent 20-25 minutes in some
of the lines to get food, so I think my recommendation would be to continue to get more food
vendors that serve general food. Other than that, really enjoyed it.
Franks: Thanks Jack. Amy?
O'Shea: No comments.
Franks: Tom?
Kelly: No.
Franks: Glen?
Stolar: Just wondering are you going to have a 2 year old division for the free throw contest?
Ruegemer: We can certainly consider that.
Stolar: My 2 year old plays basketball.
Ruegemer: We certainly will be calling upon the commission at the June meeting we'll be, we
have the volunteer list. Traditionally the commission has helped out with the prize board sales
and t-shirt sales, that sort of thing on July 3rd itself. And then also if the commissioners would
like to help out with the parade or any other types of events on the 4th, we certainly would
welcome your volunteerism so we'll be passing out that volunteer sheet in June.
Franks: Just a couple of things for Jerry. Dippin Dots. I didn't see them on the list. Are they
coming back and are they going to bring enough?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
Ruegemer: They are on the first item right by sweet corn.
Franks: Got to make sure for Jan that the Dippin Dots are going to be there.
Hoffman: And they ran out last year eh?
Franks: Yeah, they ran out before I could get there. While I was in that 25 minute line, they ran
out .... the plan that you got for moving everything back up to the City Center Park up there.
And I don't know where that line comes in where, because the vendors are interested in making a
certain amount of profit, if we pull in too many vendors, we'll have people pulling out so I don't
know.
Ruegemer: That is the argument we've had through the years.
Franks: Do we have room for more vendors as far as what previous sales have been to those
vendors we have had?
Ruegemer: Yes. We charge a flat fee versus a percentage. We used to do percentages, but it
always seemed like at the end of night you always kind of like, well I think you made a little bit
more than that but who's going to know. So we did raise that fee this year to the most expensive
was at $250 if they need electricity and that sort of thing. If they're a for profit group, we do give
non-profit groups a little bit of a break on that. But that's the way we decided to kind of handle
that and go that route.
Hoffman: Nobody's complaining that they're not making enough money yet.
Ruegemer: Mr. Sweet Corn does a little bit but.
Hoffman: Well, he's got no complaints.
Ruegemer: But physical space, certainly we have room to expand.
Franks: And the utilities up there going to be an issue?
Ruegemer: We're in the process of moving the electrical kind of components that we had down
in the southern area down here, we will move that up in that north area. Close to the path
somewhere. Maybe by the big green utility boxes that we have with electrical components are
now. And so we can certainly accomplish a lot just from that pedestal power that we have there.
Then also we can certainly bring in different phasing of generators and stuff for different vendors.
Franks: And any of our active skateboarders, has that been brought up with any of these
organizations about doing some kind of exhibition in the skate parks since we're all going to be
up there anyway? That might be a nice way to positively highlight the skate park. And other
than that, I don't know other than using it for that kind of exhibition during the 3rd, at least from
4:30 on, has it been considered in closing down the skate park? And I don't know what you're
thinking about there but, you know to.
Hoffman: Probably going to have the second biggest crowd of any area up there.
Franks: Yeah probably, and that's what I'm concerned about actually. You know considering
that sometimes we do have some problems up there, it's just kind of really creating some
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
insurance that since everything is up, that skate park will no longer be kind of out of the way. It's
going to be you know right on the edge of things so. That'd be something I would suggest that as
staff you discuss.
Hoffman: Added security probably would be appropriate.
Franks: Or add more security. The one thing I'm afraid of is that there be any kind of a problem
and that's just going to add to already some of the public perception that the skate park is not a
place for young hoodlums to hang out at instead of really seeing it as the great recreational
opportunity that it is.
Hoffman: I would rather have it open and be a positive experience for the whole crQwd.
Franks: Right. But if it can't be a positive, than it might be better to look at an alternative.
Hoffman: We've talked about beefing up all the venues for that evening. Larger tents. More
tents. Bigger spaces. Bigger aisles because the attendance continues to grow. There's always a
balance because it takes a good amount of resources to provide those facilities for that evening
when it's about a 6 hour window. 4 hour really intense window of activity. People love the event
and we want to make it a positive experience so they plan to stay in town and it takes a good
amount of money to provide all those tables, chairs, vendors, electricity, etc, etc, to meet those
high peak demands so it's always a balancing act. Last year we had a narrower tent because we
saved what?
Ruegemer: $3,000.
Hoffman: 3,000 bucks but we're not going to do it. The narrower tent just did not work for the
crowd so we've gone to 2 tents and we're back to the wider tents.
Franks: At one point we talked about trying to pull something together on the 4th. The facilities
are downtown. We noticed that once the parade passes, people are just bugging out but we
already have all these people downtown already. Is there something more that we could provide
for them like having the food vendors actually opened up for, I know at one point we talked about
an art or craft fair in the Market Square or in the Byerly's parking lot or something like that. Is
that anything that's being considered?
Hoffman: We've had one of our local musicians talk about having a series of concerts in the next
day, so that's up for discussion. The facilities are all there. The restrooms and the tent and the
tables and chairs so.
Franks: Because we still have the tents for the next day. If we could utilize those since we have
all the people congregated downtown, just to really give them a little something...on the 4th.
Hoffman: They can mingle and stay, during and before and after the parade.
Franks: Right. And I would also request that when we're all down there as commissioners and
enjoying the 4th of July festivities and Todd here comes, that we all begin to consider how it is we
might add or expand on and the one thing that I would like you to consider is adding, if you think
it'd be appropriate, some carnival type attractions as in.
Hoffman: A midway.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
Franks: A midway. I don't know if any of you have seen like Richfield's 4th of July area there at
the Veterans of Memorial Park. They have like a huge, full midway. Now of course we wouldn't
be...but since we have moved the whole celebration out to City Center Park and we do have
space available, it would be a time that we could consider adding something like that. My
understanding is that if done correctly it can be a pretty good revenue source as well.
Hoffman: And it appeals to the older kids and our community, our children are getting older.
Franks: And we've seen the response that the teenagers have to the skate park. If you go out
there, even when I came up today...although there still are some yellow teeth... So Jerry, I know
that you have to book those things probably more than a year in advance so if you could begin to
look that up for us so we have some information after the 4th of July that we could consider as
part of our post celebration back-up, I would appreciate it.
O'Shea: Chair Franks, I did think of something tonight.
Franks: Sure.
O'Shea: This might be a safety issue but we work as a fund raiser. Did they legalize sparklers
this year?
Hoffman: Yep.
Ruegemer: Yes.
O'Shea: Yeah, that might be a safety issue. You may not want them there.
Hoffinan: No sparklers. Jesse might bring some. Glow necklaces. No 14,000 degree sparklers.
Ruegemer: We do have that light...
Franks: You do? I was going to say, is the City doing that or do you have vendors lined up?
Ruegemer: We have a vendor that pays us money to come in and it's already done.
Franks: Wonderful, thanks. Any other comments? Alright moving on.
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS.
Franks: I don't think we have any active committees going right now.
Kelly: We have one, yep.
Franks: We do?
Kelly: The Dave Huffman Run .... giving the new commission background and if I make any
mistakes, please let me know. In 2000 Chanhassen decided to sponsor a 5K Run called the Dave
Huffman Run. Dave Huffman was a tight end for the Vikings. He was a Chanhassen resident.
He also was a member of this commission a few years ago. He did die in a car accident maybe 4
or 5 years ago, I'm not sure. So a 5K Run was established in his honor. Again in 2000 we had
about, I want to say 250 participants. Last year we 450 folks so the run is growing by leaps and
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
bounds. We had more Vikings participation last year in person. I don't know the name of the
Viking mascot but the guy that fides the Harley during the games.
Hoffman: Ragnar.
Kelly: Ragnar. He actually led the, I think he started the run and he was around for kids at the
end. We had some Viking cheerleaders actually run and Joe Schmitt presented the awards at the
post race celebration. What's happening this year is we're in the middle of planning the run fight
now. Joe Schmitt is a definite in. Matt Blair, I guess he used to be a linebacker for the Vikings
also has committed to do the run. Mike Morris on KFAN is going to do promotions over the air.
Because of tax purposes the run, and I'm no financial analyst but because of tax purposes now the
run has to file for a 501C3 status, which is actually a good thing now because I believe now that
we can give businesses receipts for their contributions which actually could encourage more
contributions from businesses. The web site is up and running. Huffman 5K.com, and we met
tonight and we're actually seriously considering adding a kids run to the Dave Huffman Run.
The route may be a quarter mile. It might be a half mile. We're trying to figure out what the
route is and there may be some additional activities for the kids besides just running. Maybe face
paint or something so, in a preliminary stage but we're trying to make it more a family event and
we're trying to monitor how other kids run are done in the city but everyone's really excited and
message from Mike Howe who was running this before he left. He wants to encourage everyone
to start running now. It's never too early to train and he wanted me to pass that on. It is a great
run. The route begins at Lake Ann and ends at the Americlnn with the exception of one hill at the
very beginning going up Powers, it's just a cruise. It's a very fast run and it's very enjoyable and
the weather last 2 years has been fantastic.
Happe: Tom, when did you say the date of that is?
Kelly: It is, I think it's the 14th this year. And we're trying to get more Viking participation and
just trying to grow the event. We are going to try to exchange lists or try to, what some of the
other local runs in the area try to maybe exchange some mail lists to try to increase the
participation so, that was the report.
Franks: Thanks Tom. Great event. We're hoping that it continues to become kind of a signature
event for Chanhassen in the fall so, something else to really expand on and help businesses in
downtown. And we expect all commissioners to participate in running. Alright, there are no
other committees, are there Todd? Any that I'm not aware of. Any more that I'm not aware of?.
Okay, good.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS.
Franks: We also have a time available for commission member presentations. This is an
opportunity for commission members to present things to the commission. Are there any
commissioners with any presentations this evening? Seeing none, we'll move onto administrative
packet. That is the group of papers labeled Administrative Section.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Hoffman: General correspondence that staff receives on a month to month basis. It's
informational. It makes for some conversation and we talked about the business at hand in the
packet given month. When it's at commissioner presentation time, generally your agendas are
driven by about 4 different factors. Number one is to tradition. Traditional items come before
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
the commission on any given month of the year, so that's about a quarter. About a quarter of
your agenda is driven from the outside. People come to the commission wanting things. About a
quarter is driven by staff. We place items on your agenda and then about a quarter of the agenda
should be driven by the commission itself and that would be a time for you to bring up ideas that
you've been talking with your friends or family or neighbors and then we would, the commission
would talk about them and as a group decide if you want to place them on a future agenda and
direct staff to go ahead and start some investigation into that particular topic.
Franks: As an example, the Dave Huffman 5K was an item that began as commissioners during
presentation time, talking about an idea and it just happened to happen at the same time that the
Americlnn and Northcott Industries had approached the city about wanting to do a signature
event and so there's a prime example about how those things get started. Any comments
regarding the administrative packet?
Kelly: Can we discuss the Eagle Scout proposal?
Franks: Sure.
Kelly: I don't know where to start or if I just want to throw it out. I thought the park benches
were a great idea around the new play area. I thought we had, I think that was part of the
planning to put benches.
Hoffman: Part of the plan but they were not in yet.
Kelly: Were not in yet, okay. I just wanted to see what people thought about the other items on
the proposal. The exercise stations, and I'm confused about the Eagle, what actually an Eagle
project is. They don't fund any of this. They just kind of propose it or manage it?
Hoffman: They manage it. Facilitate it. Proceed with the actual construction and then the city
and park fund pays for the materials and supplies. They'll bring these proposals forward. Mr.
Nettesheim will come down to the Park and Rec Commission and give a presentation on the, we
agreed that he would do the installation of the benches. The fitness course is more or less a thing
of the past. Mileage markers we talked about would be nice, but it's tough to find a start and stop
point in Bandimere where people would stop and start and then soccer benches and so we went
with the permanent park map. He thought he may do that and then the benches around the
playground. And depending on the scheduling of these things, if they come in, they may have the
opportunity to come in and talk to the park commission prior to making a decision and they need
to talk about it as a group so it's, we have money budgeted as an annual basis. Sometimes we go
a couple years without doing any. This year we actually have 2 Eagle Scout projects.
Happe: So that's set aside specifically for Eagle Scout projects?
Hoffman: Yes.
Happe: That's cool.
Hoffman: It's about $500 a project, give or take 500 to 1,000 depending on the project.
Franks: Anyone else? You know I'm wondering Todd, every month we kind of see more cities
and sports organizations that are going the tobacco free route and I'm wondering if that's
something that we're hearing from our sports organizations as well.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 23, 2002
Hoffman: Not hearing it. I think it's a great idea. It just depends on what extent you want to go
to. Many of the communities have gone simply at youth athletic venues. Not the adult venues. I
think there's a rare occasion where they've gone all city parks are smoke free or tobacco free.
Similar to the school districts but by and large a majority are simply at the youth athletic events.
Franks: Okay. Is that something that you as a staff have talked about bringing around in our park
system as well? Or we're not quite there yet?
Hoffman: I think we're there, yeah. I continue to pull articles that come in and put them in a file
and so when the time comes that we want to discuss it, we have background materials I can give
you.
Franks: Is there times when, during the day when we both have youth events and adult events
happening on the fields at the same time next to each other Jerry?
Ruegemer: Lake Ann Park on a daily basis during the summer. There's activities like that every
night.
Hoffman: Same park but not same fields.
Ruegemer: Next to each other at times.
Franks: Next to each other at times.
Hoffman: I think the policy's more of, it's just as much a statement as it is an enforceable policy.
No one's going to go out and enforce the smoke free policy but as an association. If the City
adopts it in concert with association, the association leadership is saying yes, we think this is a
good idea and they pass it on to the parents.
Franks: Are we considering that it's too late in the year for us to act on it for the summer season.
So what I'd like to see is, if you could make a note, have it come up on our agenda when we
review the summer sports season.
Hoffman: Okay.
Franks: And if you receive comment or are able to solicit comment from the heads of the various
sports organizations to... Well if there aren't any more comments, questions regarding the
administrative packet, is there? Seeing none, is there a motion to adjourn?
Happe moved, Spizale seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion
carried. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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