7. Amendment to City Code Regarding Sesonal/Temporary Sales , First Reading7
CITY OF
�HANHassEN
690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739
Actlofi by M Adrrnh1eMt9
TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager
FROM: John Rask, Planner I
DATE: August 6, 1995
SUBJ: Temporary Sales
BACKGROUND
Endorse" ✓ DWA
Modifies+
Rejected q
Datc
Date Submitted to Commission
Date S_ to Council
9- // - 9
The Chamber of Commerce Retail Committee is requesting an amendment to the City Code
to allow for an administrative permit and review of temporary outdoor sales events. Their
goal is to develop an ordinance which would allow outdoor sales to occur without going
through the interim use or conditional use process. The Chamber is recommending an
ordinance which would allow special sales for the following situations:
1. Individual retailer special promotion.
2. A retail center promotion.
3. Retailers on a city wide promotion.
The temporary sales ordinance has a lengthy history of discussion with the Planning
Commission and City Council (see attached minutes). Previously, the Planning Commission
supported a tempbory sales ordinance, but the Council wanted sales limited to non- profit
uses. The ordinance was never voted on by the City Council. One of the main concerns was
over which uses to permit and how to regulate transient merchants who sell items such as
furniture, stereo equipment, sunglasses, posters and art displays, etc. Staff has attempted to
address these concerns by specifying which type of temporary sales events will be permitted,
providing additional criteria, and clearly describing the purpose and intent of the ordinance.
ANALYSIS
Attached is a draft temporary sales ordinance prepared by staff. The ordinance is based in
part on the criteria provided by the Chamber. The ordinance prepared by staff would allow
1
MEMORANDUM
Planning Commission
Temporary Sales Ordinance
August 8, 1995
Page 2
individual retailer, retail center, and city wide promotions by permitting, through an
administrative permit, Christmas tree sales, seasonal produce stands, temporary food and
beverage sales, and sidewalk sales. All other temporary outdoor sales or displays would be
required to obtain an interim or conditional use permit as required by City Code.
Temporary sales is currently listed as an interim use in the CBD, BF, BG, BH and BN
districts. An interim use permit requires a $400.00 application fee, a public hearing before
the Planning Commission, and review and approval by the City Council. Staff is of the
opinion that, if the appropriate standards and criteria are developed, temporary outdoor sales
could be approved administratively. Temporary sales would be limited to the CBD, BF, BG,
BH, BN, and OI districts. Those districts that allow sales as an interim use would be changed
to allow as a permitted accessory use subject to the standards of the ordinance.
The purpose of a temporary sales ordinance is to allow certain uses which are transitory in
nature, as either accessory or seasonal uses, in a manner that will assure compatibility with
the underlying zoning district and adjacent properties. The main areas of concern with
temporary sales are location, compatibility with surrounding uses, and safety issues, including
traffic and building code.
The proposed draft ordinance is consistent with the underlying zoning districts and would
protect the public health, safety, and general welfare by specifying the type of uses and the
location of sales events. Aesthetic considerations are addressed by setting standards for the
use of signage, stands, mobile equipment, lighting, and other related items. Because the draft
ordinance involves an administrative permit, staff considered it necessary to clearly spell out
the required information, procedures, criteria for approval, and standards which will be used
in evaluating the permit applications. Including this information in the ordinance will make it
easier for the business community and the city to determine the location and type of events to
be permitted. The draft ordinance also clearly spells out appeal procedures to resolve a
dispute concerning the issuance of a permit
Purpose and Findings sections where added to the draft ordinance to further define the intent
of the temporary sales ordinance. Staff is of the opinion that, with reasonable guidelines and
criteria, temporary outdoor sales events can add "flavor" to the community from both a social
and economic perspective. If done properly, produce stands, sidewalk sales, Christmas trees
sales, and similar events help encourage community interaction and evoke community spirit
by luring people downtown. Outdoor sales events allow the sale of unique seasonal products
and provide the public with direct access to locally grown produce, farm, orchard, and garden
products.
Planning Commission
Temporary Sales Ordinance
' August 8, 1995
Page 3
' PLANNING COMMISSION UPDATE.
On August 16, 1995, the Planning Commission held a public hearing to review the proposed
Temporary Sales Ordinance. The Commission recommended approval of the ordinance as
presented in the staff report.
' Members of the Chanhassen Chamber of Commerce were present and spoke in favor of the
proposed ordinance. The Chamber was satisfied with the draft ordinance as prepared by staff.
In addition to the occasional seasonal sale or sidewalk sale, the Chamber would like to have
' city wide promotions, which could possibly be done in conjunction with other city events.
' RECOMMENDATION.
Staff recommends that the City Council adopt the Temporary Sales Ordinance.
ATTACHMENTS,
Draft Temporary 1. p ry Sales Ordinance
2. Memorandum to the Planning Commission from the Chamber Retail Committee
' 3. Chamber proposed temporary sales ordinance
4. City Council minutes dated September 13, 1993
5. City Council minutes dated December 9, 1991
' 6. Planning Commission minutes dated September 15, 1993
7. Planning Commission minutes dated August 16, 1995
D
L!
1!
MEMORANDUM
TO: City of Chanhassen Planning Commission
FROM: Retail Committee - Chanhassen Chamber of Commerce
DATE: Monday, April 3, 1995
SUBJECT: Temporary and Seasonal Outdoor Sales
RECOMMENDATION
In response to recommendations from the memo dated September 9, 1993
by Kate Aanenson, an ordinance amendment has been drafted allowing for
administrative staff approval of temporary/seasonal sales including Christmas
trees, flowers and other retail products in the CBD, BG and BF district.
The three main purposes of this amendment are to allow current permanent
retail businesses to extend their business for special circumstances or sales
for the following situations:
1. Individual retailer special promotion.
2. A retail center promotion.
3. Retailers on a city wide promotion.
The approvals are subject to meeting acceptable site standards.
APPLICATION PROCESS
The intention of the application process is to provide a quick and simple
procedure, including the actual application and a one page description of the
requirements and limitations of application. The application should be a one
page form accompanied by a one page description of the requirement of the
applicant.
The application would be handled by City of Chanhassen Planning Department Staff.
REQUIREMENTS, CONDITIONS AND LIMITATIONS FOR APPLICATION FOR
TEMPORARY OUTDOOR RETAIL SALES PERMIT
The application must be subnutted 10 days prior to the date of requested use. The Planning Department
may deny an application or issue a Temporary Outdoor Retail Sales Permit. In authorizing temporary
' sales, the Planning Department shall impose such requirements and conditions as considered necessary
for the protection of adjacent properties and the public welfare in conformance with the standards
provided in this section.
' All Christmas Tree sales shall expire December 26.
All sites shall be cleared and all remaining debris, trash removed on the last date of permit.
REVOCATION OF TEMPORARY OUTDOOR RETAIL SALES PERMIT
The Plamiing Director shall, upon reasonable notice be empowered to suspend or revoke the temporary
sales permit of any person who violates any of the provisions of tlus ordinances or any of the conditions
' set forth on their permit.
If, at any time, a permit under the provisions of this ordinance is suspended or revoked, it shall thereafter
' be unlawful for the person to operate, open, maintain, manage or conduct any temporary sales.
STANDARDS FOR TEMPORARY OUTDOOR RETAIL SALES
' Temporary sales shall comply with general standards as provided below, including
any additional conditions as may be established by the Planning Department.
' 1. Acceptable space for an off -street parking and traffic circulation generated by
the use must be provided. Curb and gutter with drive approaches is desired to
provide safe turn movements.
2. Night Lighting should be compatible with surrounding adjacent uses.
' 3. Hours of operation should be compatible with adjacent uses.
4. Signage should be limited to window signs, one outdoor sign no greater than
square feet and one directional sign not to exceed square feet.
5. Uses should be required to comply with all necessary Building Code
requirements, including inspections for any buildings, electrical cormections,
' sanitary conditions, etc.
6. Permission from the owner of the property with limitations as to the
number of temporary sales for one location.
Signed and Agreed to above:
Signature
By: Retailer Requesting Permit
' Date:
APPLICATION FOR TEMPORARY OUTDOOR RETAIL SALES PERMIT'
Conditions for approval:
Not applicable to peddlers /solicitors operating door -to -door, or street -to- street.
1. Retailers requesting the ability to offer temporary outdoor sales, (e.g. display of
merchandise on private property), are required to locate in a Commercial Zoning
District from which retail sale activity is permitted.
2. No temporary sales may occupy areas designated as front yard, side yard, rear yard
setbacks of the Commercial Zoning District, parking lot stalls, or driveway aisles.
3. Temporary sales locations may be displayed outside and beyond the confines of a
Commercial zoned building provided the display area shall not constitute a greater
number of square feet than 10% of the ground floor area of the commercial building
or tenant's space from which a outdoor retailer will be located.
4. No temporary sales location may occur in public right -of -way or public property.
5. Property owners and tenants signature(s) are required to locate a temporary sales
location on private property and /or in front of a tenant's space.
TEMPORARY OUTDOOR RETAILER PERMIT
1. Address of temporary location:
2. Square feet of commercial building:
3. Square feet of tenant's space in commercial building:
4. Property owner's Signature: Date:
Include proof of ownership
5. Tenant's Signature: Date:
6. Product(s) /Service(s) to be sold:
7. Requested Length of Permit:
8. Hours of Operation:
Also required: vicinity map, information to determine
sanitation facilities and availability of parking to serve the use.
This Zoning Certificate is subject to all conditions of the license issued.
PLANNING DEPARTMENT OFFICE USE ONLY:
Date Received:
Date Approved:
Date Denied:
By:
Zoning:
Comments:
I Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993
Addition to Shenandoah Ridge.
' 25. The developer agrees, in writing, that the plat shall be assessed $44,900 for the extension of trunk
sanitary sewer and water mains to provide service to the property. Said assessments shall be
deemed adopted on the date this contract is signed by the city. The developer waives any and all
procedural and substantive objections to the special assessment, including but not limited to
hearing requirements and any claim that the assessment exceeds the benefit to the property. The
developer waives any appeal rights otherwise available pursuant to M. S. A: §429.081.
' All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Councilman Mason: Do we have to do item 2(e) or is that just kind of?
Mayor Chmiel: We also have to do the acceptance of 9. This is for the approval of plans and specs
' in the development contract.
Councilman Mason: So moved.
Councilman Senn: Second.
' Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Senn seconded to approve the plans and specifications
and development contract for Shenandoah Ridge, Project 93 -20 from the Consent Agenda. All
voted in favor and the motion carried.
' DISCUSSION OF TEMPORARY SALES FOR TARGET.,
Kate Aanenson: This is a request from Target to have outdoor sales of pumpkins. When people
' request they also ask for ... We still feel like this temporary use ordinance makes a lot of sense instead
of making them go through the interim use process. Christmas tree sales... Meanwhile, while we're
working through this process ... It's a PUD. We did address it as a part of the PUD contract...
Councilman Senn: Is the action tonight then to specifically approve one time, this season,
they can
sell pumpkins on the Target and it simply is for the reason that it allows the existing pumpkin stand to
' move over there and sell pumpkins on Target's property?
Kate Aanenson: No. It's a separate stand.
' Councilman Senn: So Target is going to be selling pumpkins?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Chmiel: With some kind of promotion that they're proposing.
' Kate Aanenson: They're opening in October...
' 72
Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993
Councilman Senn: Okay, but how does this relate back to no outside sales and no outside stuff? I
feel real weird about this but I mean to me it's just going to open Pandora's box. If we allow
pumpkins this time and the Christmas trees are going to be there, then we're going to have every
charitable organization back in here ... because they're selling Christmas trees and I don't know. I'm
having trouble.
Councilman Wing: I remember when Steve Emmings on SuperAmerica made it real clear there was
going to be no signs, no outdoor storage, no outdoor sales, no nothing and that station looks nice
because of it and I agree with you. That's something to really stop and hold the line on right now.
Councilman Senn: If they want to have pumpkins as part of an opening promotion and put them
inside the store and make, and give them away as part of the store. I have a real problem opening this
up outside.
Councilman Wing: I agree. Ditto and I'll back off.
Mayor Chmiel: Any other thoughts? I was just looking at the letter that was written and just seeing
that they house these in a wooden bin and of course that is outside in the front entrance doors. I think
it'd be pretty hard to sell those pumpkins from that standpoint unless you grabbed one and walked in.
What happens if you came out from shopping and just grabbed one and walked out.
Councilman Mason: I'm sure the citizenry of Chanhassen would never do that.
Mayor Chmiel: Oh I agree, but I'm talking about other people... What's Council's feeling?
Councilman Senn: I would move we not approve it and wait for consider of and to comment to and
to change it or whatever.
Kate Aanenson: Wait until you see the temporary use ordinance?
Councilman Wing: I'll second that.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, I think that's probably a good idea because we did have a lot of discussions for
the last few years in regard to outside storage and it does look clean and it does look nice.
Councilman Mason: I'll admit prior to this discussion, I was going to say ah, why not.
Councilman Wing: It's America.
Councilman Mason: But some excellent points have been brought up here though. I mean that
certainly would open up that Pandora's Box and what not. I agree.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Motion's been made and is there a second?
73
Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993
Councilman Mason: Second. There was a second already? Oh, I take my second back.
Councilman Wing: Although if my company fails, I may need a job there.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Wing seconded that the City Council deny the request for
Target to sale pumpkins outside. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
SET SALE DATE FOR BONDS OF 1993.
Don Ashworth: Dave MacGillivray is with us tonight with Springstad. During the break he
distributed this document here. You might look and see if you can find that in front of you and with
that I'll turn it over to Dave. Oh, we should note, well he'll present it. We're recommending a
change in the date but Dave will go through that.
Dave MacGillivray: I'll try and be brief but it's about $10 million so I at least want to go over some
of the basics. What we're asking for is a resolution setting the sale date for getting competitive bids
on four issues. Two tax increment issues, one improvement issue, that being repaid by special
assessment, and one tax increment refund being issued. The total is slightly under $10 million. The
packet I gave out, I think we can cut to the chase in just a few pages. If you turn to page 7. We use
this to explain the composition of the ... Is everybody there. Across the top we have the GO Tax
Increment Fund of 1993 B and there are four different projects there. All of those would be repaid by
tax increment district No. 1, which is the pre-1979 district. The big one. The one on the far right, the
GO tax increment bond, Series 1993 D where it says land. That land is for acquisition of school
property. That is repaid by increments in Tax Increment District No. 3 which is the McGlynn District.
If you go down here where it says total...$630,000.00. And TIF 3 under land, $680,000.00. What
we've done in conjunction with the city staff is develop where all of the good money is coming from
and where it is going—for everything for both of these districts. If you turn the page and that's page
8. This is an ... starting right now of all the anticipated revenue that is now on the books. Less all the
expenditure that is on the books and would be on the books after this issue. To show you where or
how much money you have in the bank at the end. This goes out to the year 2001. The beginning
balance of 1993, $1,051,313.00. That's from the audit financial statements... 1992. Under revenue, the
big line there is tax increment 1 and 2. What that figure represents is projects that are already in the
ground for which you are collecting taxes now or things that are under construction... If you skip down
to expenditures, the big one there is loan payments. That's really everything that is currently
outstanding. This is TIF #1 which is pre '79 so there's a lot of things in there. New issue right under
that is this issue. How that would come out as an expenditure. And that gives you an ending balance
which is the second to the bottom line. At the end of 1993, the estimate is $1,362,000.00 and you see
over time that as you get out to here at 01 ... So this is a lot less than I think you've seen before but
you're selling close to $6 million worth of bonds right here ... so just to give you an estimate. Funds
that would be available at the time...
Mayor Chmiel: Dave, what's the going rate right now?
Dave MacGillivray: Okay, whoa. I think they're about 4% on these issues. 4 1/4%. Somewhere in
74
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
CARVER AND HENNEPIN COUNTIES, MINNESOTA
ORDINANCE NO.
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER 20 OF THE
CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
The City Council of the City of Chanhassen ordains:
Section 1. Section 20 -1, Definitions, is amended to add the following definition:
Temporary outdoor sale is defined as, "Activities characterized by their short-term or
seasonal nature, require an outdoor location, and by the fact that permanent
improvements are not made to the site."
Section 2. Section 20 -290, Temporary Sales, is amended in its entirety to read as
follows:
(1) Purpose and FindinLS
(a) Purpose. Temporary outdoor promotional and sales activities are subject to issuance of
an administrative permit and the requirements of this ordinance. It is the intent of this
ordinance to provide for temporary outdoor events and sales which are distinguished from
permanent outside business activities that are allowed only by Conditional Use Permit or
Interim Use Permit approved by the City Council. It is the intent of this section, to promote
the health, safety, general welfare, aesthetics, and image of the community by regulating
temporary outdoor sales activities.
1. Establish standards which permit businesses an opportunity to conduct
temporary outdoor sales;
2. Ensure that temporary sales do not create safety hazards by occupying required
parking spaces, emergency access, or impede the efficient movement of
pedestrian and vehicular traffic;
3. Provide standards, guidelines, and procedures for an administrative review of
temporary sales permits;
4. Provide a means of allowing citywide retail promotions;
5. Allow certain uses which are seasonal in nature, while providing standards that
will assure compatibility with the underlying zoning district and adjacent
property;
6. Provide the public with direct access to homegrown produce;
' 7. Allow temporary sales events which require an outdoor location; and
8. Limit temporary sales to activities which are short-term or seasonal and which
' do not require permanent improvements to the site.
' (b) Findings. The City of Chanhassen finds it necessary for the promotion and preservation
of the public health, safety, welfare and aesthetics of the community that the location, size,
and appearance of temporary sales events be controlled. Further, the city finds that:
' 1. Outdoor sales and displays have a direct impact on and a relationship to the
image of the community;
2. An opportunity for merchants to sell produce and seasonal merchandise are an
integral component of economic development;
' 3. Temporary outdoor sales events may present an obstacle to effective fire
fighting and other emergency services by blocking necessary exits, fire lanes,
' or turnaround areas;
4. Uncontrolled and unlimited outdoor sales and displays adversely impact the
' image and aesthetics of the community and, thereby, undermine economic
value and growth; and
' 5. Uncontrolled temporary sales events may conflict with existing and neighboring
uses.
' (2) Application.
(a) Application for an administrative permit for a temporary outdoor promotional
or sales activity shall be made by the property owner to the Planning Director
on forms to be provided by the City at least ten (10) business days prior to the
' date of the requested event.
(b) A written description of the proposed use including requested length of permit
' and hours of operation.
(c) Unresolved disputes as to administrative application of the requirements of the
ordinance shall be referred to the Planning Commission and to the City Council
' for review.
(d) The application shall be accompanied by a nonrefundable fee which shall be
' imposed in accordance with the fee schedule established by the City Council.
The intent of this section is to recover costs associated with administering this
' article. Permit fees shall reflect the costs of reviewing and processing permits,
2
as well as costs associated with periodic enforcement activities and compliance
checks.
(3)
(4)
(5)
Reauired Information and Plans.
(a) A concise statement describing the proposed event, including the purpose, type
of merchandise involved, dates and times of operation, number of employees
involved, provisions for onsite security, provisions for onsite parking, name of
person or organization requesting permit, and other pertinent information
required by the Planning Director to fully evaluate the application;
(b) The Planning Director may require a copy of an approved Site Plan, drawn to
scale, for the property or an "as- built" survey, which accurately represents
existing conditions on the site, including entrances and exits, and bona fide
parking and driving areas, and which accurately indicates any proposed
temporary structures, including tents, stands, and signs;
(c) An accurate floor plan of any building on the property, when, in the judgement
of the Planning Director, such a plan is necessary to properly evaluate the
location of the event and the effectiveness of building entrances and exits.
Procedure.
(a) The Planning Director shall review applications for administrative permits and
shall determine if the proposal is in compliance with all applicable codes,
ordinances, and the specific standards for temporary promotional and sales
activities as set forth in this section. The application shall also be reviewed by
the Public Safety Department and/or other appropriate review agencies.
(b) A written permit shall be issued to the applicant. Specific conditions to assure
compliance with applicable codes, ordinances, and the standards in this section
shall be attached to the permit.
(c) Determination of noncompliance with applicable codes, ordinances, and the
standards in this paragraph shall be communicated to the applicant and the
application for the permit shall be considered denied; unless, within ten days of
the date of such notice, the applicant submits revised plans and/or information
with which the Planning Director is able to determine compliance.
Criteria for Annroval.
(a) The event or sales shall be clearly accessory to or promotive of the permitted '
or conditional use approved for the site. Only merchandise which is normally
3
sold, or stocked by the occupant(s) on the subject premises shall be sold and/or
promoted, provided that seasonal merchandise and produce may be allowed.
' (b) Tents, stands, and other similar temporary structures and temporary vehicles
and mobile equipment may be utilized, provided they are clearly identified on
the submitted plan and provided that it is determined by the Planning Director
that they will not impair the parking capacity, emergency access, or the safe
and efficient movement of pedestrian and vehicular traffic on or off the site.
(c) The submitted plan shall clearly demonstrate that adequate off - street parking
for the proposed event can and will be provided for the duration of the event.
' Determination of compliance with this requirement shall be made by the
Planning Director who shall consider the nature of the event and the applicable
parking requirements of the City Code. Consideration shall be given to the
i parking needs and requirements of other occupants in the case of multi- tenant
buildings.
' (d) Property owners and tenants signature(s) are required to locate a temporary
sales event on private property and/or in front of another tenant's space.
(e) The temporary sales event must be consistent with other uses permitted in the
zoning district. No use that is prohibited in a zoning district shall be allowed
as a temporary outdoor sale or activity.
(6) Standards.
(a) Permitted temporary sales events are limited to the following
1. Christmas tree sales.
2. Seasonal produce stands.
3. Temporary food and beverage sales.
4. Sidewalk sales.
(b) Standards. The following shall apply to all proposed temporary outdoor sales
' activities allowed by this section in addition to other applicable building and
safety code requirements as determined by the Planning Director.
' a. Christmas tree sales and produce stands shall be the period specified in
the Administrative Permit and, in no case, shall exceed sixty (60) days
per calendar year per property or center. There shall be no more than
' three (3) sales activities per year per property or center.
1
b. Temporary food and beverage sales prepared on -site and sidewalk sales
shall be permitted for the period specified in the Administrative Permit
and, in no case, shall exceed fifteen (15) days per year with a maximum '
of a three (3) day display period.
C. Christmas Tree sales shall expire December 26.
d. The site shall be cleared and all remaining debris removed from the
sales site on the last remaining day of the permit.
e. Acceptable space for off - street parking and traffic circulation generated
by the use must be provided. Curb and gutter with drive approaches is '
desired to provide safe turn movements.
f. Lighting shall be compatible with surrounding adjacent uses.
g. Hours of operation shall be compatible with adjacent uses.
h. Signage should be limited to window signs, and one outdoor sign no
greater than twenty -four (24) square feet. Special signage for purposes
of traffic direction and control may be authorized by the Planning
Director.
i. Front yard, side yard, and rear yard setbacks shall be a minimum of ten
(10) feet.
j. All other pertinent city and state permit must be obtained.
k. The approved permit shall be kept on the premises for the duration of
the event.
1. No public address system shall be audible from any residential property.
(
Administration and Enforcement.
(a) The Planning Director may, upon written notice and an opportunity to be
heard, suspend or revoke the temporary sales permit of any person who violates
any of the provisions of this ordinance or any of the conditions set forth on
their permit.
(b) If, at any time, a permit under the provisions of this ordinance is suspended or
revoked, it shall thereafter be unlawful for that person to operate, open,
maintain, manage or conduct any temporary sales.
5
(c) Violation
of an issued permit or the provisions of this ordinance may be
grounds for denial of future permit applications during a calendar year.
Section 3.
Section 20 -693, (BN District) Permitted Accessory Uses, be amended by
adding:
(4)
Temporary outdoor display of merchandise for sale (subject to standards
in Section 20 -290, Temporary Sales).
Section 4.
Section 20 -696, (BN District) Interim Uses, is amended by deleting the
following:
(2)
Temporary outdoor display of merchandise for sale.
Section 5.
Section 20 -713, (BH District) Permitted Accessory Uses, be amended by
adding:
(3)
Temporary outdoor display of merchandise for sale (subject to standards
in Section 20 -290, Temporary Sales).
Section 6.
Section 20 -716, (BH District) Interim Uses, is amended by deleting the
following:
(2)
Temporary outdoor display of merchandise for sale.
Section 7.
Section 20 -733, (CBD District) Permitted Accessory Uses, be amended by
adding:
(3)
Temporary outdoor display of merchandise for sale (subject to standards
in Section 20 -290, Temporary Sales).
Section 8.
Section 20 -736, (CBD District) Interim Uses, is amended by deleting the
following:
(2) Temporary outdoor display of merchandise for sale.
Section 9. Section 20 -753, (BG District) Permitted Accessory Uses, be amended by
adding:
(3) Temporary outdoor display of merchandise for sale (subject to standards
in Section 20 -290, Temporary Sales).
0
Section 10. Section 20 -756, (BG District) Interim Uses, is amended by deleting the
following:
(2) Temporary outdoor display of merchandise for sale.
Section 11. Section 20 -772, (BF District) Permitted Accessory Uses, be amended by
adding:
(3) Temporary outdoor display of merchandise for sale (subject to standards
in Section 20 -290, Temporary Sales).
Section 12. Section 20 -775, (BF District) Interim Uses, is amended by deleting the
following:
(2) Temporary outdoor display of merchandise for sale.
Section 13. Section 20 -793, (OI District) Permitted Accessory Uses, be amended by
adding:
(3) Temporary outdoor display of merchandise for sale (subject to standards
in Section 20 -290, Temporary Sales).
Section 14 . This ordinance shall be effective immediately upon its passage and
publication.
PASSED AND ADOPTED by the Chanhassen City Council this
day of , 1995.
ATTEST:
Don Ashworth, Clerk/Manager Donald J. Chmiel, Mayor
7
City Council Meeting - D )er 9, 1991
Roger Knutson: It stops at the setback zone and the prior draft had continued,
in such a way that the watercraft or any part thereof extends across the
extended side lot lines of any lakeshore lot. That was dropped out. And the
' reference to boat lift was added. Identical change was made in Section 3.
Councilman Mason: Why are we dropping that off?
Roger Knutson: The original draft would allow you to moor your boat in such a
way that it extended all the way to your side lot line. Your dock must be 10
feet from your side lot line but your boat went out parallel to the shore, it
' could extend all the way to your property line. The change says you have to
keep that boat moored so it's at least 10 feet from your property line.
' Mayor Chmiel: In other words so you're not encroaching on any adjacent
property's water area.
' Roger Knutson: That's right.
Mayor Chmiel: Alright. Richard?
i Councilman Wing: No, I'm very pleased with this. I think it almost resolves
some of the recreational beachlot problems by itself.
Mayor Chmiel: Would you like to make your motion to move this item?
Councilman Wing: Yeah, with just one quick look at Mr. Krauss.
' Paul Krauss: No, that's fine.
Councilman Wing: I would move then.
' Mayor Chmiel: Item (1). -
' Councilman Wing: Item (1).
Councilman Workman: Second.
' Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Workman seconded to approve the First Reading
of Zoning Ordinance Amendment concerning Mooring of Watercraft. All voted in
favor and the motion carried unanimously.
0. DEFINE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES FOR TEMPORARY SALES /CHRISTMAS TREE SALES.,
; - Councilwoman Dimler: Item (o) having to do with temporary sales /Christmas Tree
sales. When I first read this I guess I was looking for a reason why this was
being enacted. So I thought the only, as I was reading through it, I thought
the only concern I would „ -,, would oe safety concerns that I could Possibly see
' that we would wart to do -_,mething like thle. wo I cnecked wit,i Scott Harr to
find out if there had been any safety situations in the past on any temporary
sale -at all. He assured me that there had been none at all, and even if in'the
' future that would be a problem, that this can be taken care of current
regulations through the safety hazards.
1
City Council Meetin December 9, 1991
Mayor Chmiel: Right. That does...
Councilwoman Dimler: Seasonal sales, yeah. And also I'm wondering with trying
to take care of one situation we aren't creating more problems than we're
solving because as far as I can see, then we'd be regulating garage sales, Boy
Scout Christmas wreath sales, lemonade sales. Perhaps bizarre sales and even
our own t -shirt sales at our 4th of July-celebration. I'm wondering if we
really want to do that. Also I'm very uncomfortable with giving government the
authority to interfere with free market. I happen to believe that competition
is good. Also, I don't see any fee schedule and I think enforcement would be a
headache. So I am not in favor of this at all. I would move to deny item (o).
Mayor Chmiel: Paul, would you like to clarify?
Paul Krauss: A couple things if I could. Councilwoman Dimler, there is no
ordinance in front of you tonight. This could probably.
Councilwoman Dimler: I don't even want to proceed with this is what I'm saying.
Paul Krauss: Well this could probably have gone to the administrative section.
We have had problems with Christmas tree sales in the past and I think Scott can
tell you where we had one in a residential neighborhood last year where we had a
lot of complaints. I'm not sure of your conversation with Scott on this but
this in part grew out of a memo I got from Scott telling us that we didn't have
adequate controls over some of these things. What it is is basically, you know
when you talk about free market, there's a lot of issues you can get into but
I know that I've had a lot of complaints, not here but in other communities when
you have somebody selling shrimp off the back of a truck who is not paying any
property taxes and who is not a member of a business person's associations or
anything else competing with somebody who's paying a fortune to be in the
Festival Food. So there's a lot of different things that come into play and
I.have had instances where these have caused traffic problems. They set up 'shop
in a gas station on a major corner and people turning in. What this basically
was was an outline that says right now we'd like to continue to do business as
usual, especially with Christmas tree lots unless they show up in a residential
neighborhood which we won't allow.
Councilwoman Dimler: And that's according to zoning, not because you need an
ordinance?
Paul Krauss: Well but see in the past Christmas tree lots have always been kind
of a hands off thing. People would call up City Hall and say what do you do
about Christmas tree lots and there's nothing in the ordinance about it any
place and people were told that and the guy took that to mean that he could set
one up on his front lawn off of TH 7 and he did so.
Councilwoman Dimler: Not in a residential. That would be a zoning violation.
Mayor Chmiel: Well, some of those things are in residential areas. I've seen
in Minnetonka just off of TH 101..
Councilwoman Dimler: But are you then getting into home sales, which I'm
involved in?
7
' City Council Meeting - Der r 9, 1991
t Paul Krauss: No. No, not at all. No, this gets more into.
Councilwoman Dimler: Selling out of your home. Cosmetics.
Paul Krauss: If Mr. Burdick is correct, and I hope he is. I heard the same
information but once we get a shopping center up and if they want to bring in a
carnival into town, are you going to want to regulate that? Well you might.
Again it's like the seafood shop setting up in a gas station or it's the velvet
paintings out on a fence on TH 5. Those kinds of things typically cause some
problems and there's very little mechanism we have to deal with it. When the
Twins got into the playoffs I.had several calls from National companies that
wanted to come down, they go around the country whenever there's a big sporting
event and they set up those stands. They wanted to do that here and I convinced
them not to.
Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. I guess I'm going to say that that would be going
against the Constitutional rights because the Minnesota Constitution, Article
XIII, Section 7 says that any person may sell or peddle the products, and I'm
talking here about farm and garden, not t- shirts, that are grown or cultivated
by him without obtaining a license to do so.
Paul Krauss: Well there's no question that, the farm sales.
Councilwoman Dimler: I'm just saying this would be a hazard to that.
Mayor Chmiel: That's completely acceptable and it's not intended to be governed
by this respective temporary.
Councilwoman Dimler: That's not what I saw in here. I thought I saw something
about Kerber's being grandfathered in. Where did I read that? It must have
been in the.
Paul Krauss: Well it says that these are either grandfathered in or allowed
since they're located on land used for agricultural purposes.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. The intent is not to govern that aspect of it.
Councilwoman Dimler: Yeah, but even if it isn't grown there. The shrimp truck
can still come in, wouldn't it?
Paul Krauss: No it can't.
Councilwoman Dimler: Why not?
Paul Krauss: That's not grown in Minnesota. I mean it doesn't fall under the
State protection.
Mayor CFTieI: we don't quite have the ocean front.
Councilwoman Dimler: I know but how do you prove. I know there's obvious but
how do you prove the produce was grown in Minnesota?
8
City Council Meeting 'ecember 9, 1991
Paul Krauss: I don't try. I mean if someone tells me the potatoes came from
here or from Idaho, you don't really try to do it. If it's pineapples, it's
pretty clear. Even at that you use some discretion. I mean if a fruit stand is
set up, I know I've dealt with them in different communities before, you just
don't bother with them. But the ones that do cause the most difficulty are the
ones who come in, I mean I've even seen stereos being sold by the side of the
road. You know these operations tend to cause some problems because they're not
here to warrant their stuff. They're not paying property taxes. They have
signage all over. It's those kinds of things you want to get at, not the other
kinds.
Mayor Chmiel: Something where it's in direct competition to what's existing
within a community.
Councilwoman Dimler: The produce sales are in competition with the new grocery
store.
Mayor Chmiel: But if they're grown here, that's a different thing. Most other
things are brought in as Paul has indicated. The same thing with.stereos as he
said. There's a place within the community that will sell those items. Why
should that individual have the right to sell within this community when we have
someone here supporting it. Besides those things might be so hot you couldn't
put them in your car.
Councilwoman Dimler: Well that's controlling the market to me and I don't think
we should be doing that.
Councilman Wing: Last Christmas out at Minnewashta Heights one of the neighbors
decided to open up a Christmas Tree lot with signs, lights and it startled the
neighborhood. I guess I wasn't personally offended by it but I think you got a
lot of complaints on that one. I don't believe we had any control or any say at
that point did we? Isn't this directed at that problem?
Councilwoman Dimler: How about a public nuisance? Don't we have a public
nuisance?
Paul Krauss: Well that's a very weak ordinance.
Mayor Chmiel: This is a problem not only here but all over. I've heard the
same thing just the other evening that I was at a Planning Commission meeting in
Sherburne County. They have the same problem.
Councilman Workman: I'll get on the side with Ursula because I think she needs
a little help here, if I can.
Councilwoman Dimler: Certainly.
Councilman Workman: Ii seems like it's too late for the Christmas tree sales.
Almost. ,
Paul Krauss: Well we never intended, basically what we did is lay out how we
would deal with Christmas tree sales this year. It hasn't been a problem but '
we've been operating like this all along. We just kind of wanted your blessings
9 1
t City Council Meeting - Dr per 9, 1991
' to do it that way. Then outline some of the things that we thought we might
like to get at in ordinance later on! If you don't want us to pursue it we
' won't.
Councilman Workman: No, that's not what I'm getting at because I think there's
some middle ground here. T one that comes to mind for me, and maybe the
' firewood was grown in Chanhassen but the firewood guys just come out of the wood
work. In fact I was sitting in a driveway at my old home and a neighbor, they
look at the stacks to see if you've got the fireplace or not. Well the
' neighbors got a false stack. They had the zero clearance look on it but they
didn't have a fireplace and-I kind of said to them, we were sitting out with
some friends and I said number one, they're not home. Number two, they don't
have a fireplace. The guy turned around and said well they're probably a bunch
' of jerks. I wasn't going to get in an argument with the guy. I knew the people
was good people but I get a lot of hostilities from some of those people. They
come all the way down from Brainerd and wherever and whatever and they've got a
' load of wood and they've got to get rid of it and they're quite aggressive
which, and I won't bring up Mike Mason's velvet Elvis prints. I think something
needs to be done. If the produce stands that are found in town in the Fall I
appreciate and so what I mean by getting along with Ursula, I understand the
free market thing and so I don't want to do something that we don't want to do.
And are we doing.that with this. It does start to get a little, we need control
but maybe we ought to sit down and figure that out. Pick out who we don't like
and I don't know how to do that because there are State laws to go by and we've
got to figure out. Last year we restricted the sale of used cars at the corner
of TH 101 over there which a guy said hey, wait a minute. People have got to
' sell their cars you know. It seemed like a good place to sell cars but it was
causing a safety problem so I realize that but I don't like to keep people from
being able to sell what they have because it's important for them to do that.
Frank Kurvers: I was just listening to this.
Mayor Chmiel: Why don't you come up and introduce yourself.
Frank Kurvers: I was listening to this, I mean controlling all these businesses
and everything. What about the Schwann man? I mean you talk about things that
people sell in the store. They carry about everything on that truck and a lot
' of people like their products which I'm one of them. Now are you going to
regulate the Schwann man? He just gave $7 million dollars to the Mankato
College of some of this profits. I think that's a good business.
Mayor Chmiel: But.he didn't give anything to Chanhassen.
Frank Kurvers: No he didn't.
Councilman Wing: That's not a good analogy because Schwann is ordered on a
rr :e ba�:s. It's lip. saying UPS can'i come in arc __fiver a package. I
' c. see mat. I thi'l" there's a neeC for control. 1 ,hink the City has
always had a live and let live attitude. I don't see that this is cutting it
out.- It's cutting out the problem areas but I still see, I like your corn .
' stand. I'd protect that because I think we should have that. The raspberry
stands. I don't see it hurting those or cutting those out. It is getting rid
of some of the nuisance stuff. It does give Paul and Scott the authority to
10
City Council Meetin lecember 9, 1991
take action if they get complaints and it is in fact not in compliance with
this. I think this just kind of cleans this up like the noise ordinance. We
' don't want to go out and pick on the community but if the complaint comes in,
there's something here that our Code Enforcement people can deal with. And so I
see this as really pretty luke warm. I don't see it as really attacking anybody
as I read it.
Councilwoman Dimler: Paul, are we talking about then regulating like the
Christmas Boutique at St. Hubert's? The Fall Festival Sales at St. Hubert's?
Our own sales of t- shirts at the 4th of July?
Paul Krauss: Well in fact that's an area where you've got to be careful that
you're not doing charitable stuff. In fact you want a mechanism to be able to
do stuff like that.' The ordinance right now doesn't allow, theoretically allow
any of this and if the Boy Scouts come and are making lawn furniture or
something.
Councilwoman Dimler: Selling wreaths.
Paul Krauss: Well no wreaths is a door to door stuff. I mean my son does that.
Councilwoman Dimler: So you're allowing door to door stuff?
Paul Krauss: Oh yeah. That's no problem. But you've got to be careful that,
you know there's some classic events like the charitable sales and you want to
make sure that they're called out separately. This is really gets to the stuff
that you see when you travel up and down TH 7 or TH 5 in places where the more
intensive things that pull into lots and take over part of the lot and put up
their signs. Or the carnivals that show up with a lot of rides and people park
in the streets. It's those kinds of things.
Councilwoman Dimler: It still seems to me like we can already regulate that
according to existing, I mean safety concerns. They.must have some way to
control traffic problems. If it's a nuisance, under the nuisance ordinance.
Paul Krauss: We really don't. I wish Scott was here to relate some of the
problems that his staff has had in getting at some of those.
Councilwoman Dimler: Well I did ask him about it and he said there haven't been
any concerns with specific temporary sales.
Paul Krauss: Again, Scott and I conferred with this and this grew out of a memo
that I received from him.
Councilwoman Dimler: Yes, but couldn't you shut this operation down in a
residential area just because of the zoning of residential and the neighbors
were complaining of the lights and the noise and the traffic?
Paul Krauss: Well again, we're dealing with a classy use that wasn't regulated
at all in the past. When they called up and got a secretary or somebody to say
Yes, we don't regulate Christmas trees, they understandably went ahead and put
it in the residential area. You're right, it's technically probably a violation
of the zoning code. But at this point the guy had a 1,000 trees on his lawn and
11
' City Council Meeting - De it 9, 1991
' when we went out there, or he had 300 trees as I recall, and when I went out
there and told him you're in violation and all this, which probably would have
taken us, if we really tried to push it, it probably would have taken us a month
' or two to get something written up and on the docket and everything to take
action. By that time it's the middle of February. But he had already made that
investment and we felt we had to hanor his ability to stay there and we just
asked him to keep the traffic down and watch out for his neighbors.
Mayor Chmiel: I think it's a little late for the Christmas trees as you
indicated but maybe what we should do is just table this and have some
' additional discussions between you and Scott. Maybe Ursula can have some of her
input as to her concerns and then go from there. Maybe if you'd like to make a
motion to table this at this particular time.
Councilwoman Dimler: Then I'd have to remove my motion to deny.
Mayor Chmiel: Yes.
' Councilman Workman: I think it was dead.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, you didn't get a second. There wasn't any second.
Councilwoman Dimler: I thought you seconded it with your
Councilman Workman: Did I second it?
Mayor Chmiel: No. No, there wasn't a second here.
Councilman Workman: I said I was going to help her out.
Councilwoman Dimler: Then I'll make a substitute motion of tabling this item
until we can look at it further.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay is there a second?
Councilman Workman: Second.
' Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Workman seconded to table defining
Administrative Procedures for temporary sales /Christmas tree sales for further
clarification. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
' P. APPROVE MINNEWASHTA PARKWAY ANNEXATION..
Councilman Wing: I just didn't fully understand this and I failed to ask today
or I wouldn't have brought this up. This annexation is done. Both cities have
in theory passed these resolutions and that means that it's going to be Victoria
on both sides and Chanhassen's going to have a road going right through Victoria
' and it's as simple as that.
Mayor.Chmiel: That's correct.
' Councilman Wing: Is that desireable or is it irrelevant?
12
CC: Don Chmiel
To: Chanhassen City Council
Attention: Paul Krauss
From: Tammy Larson, Target Chanhassen
Date: August 23, 1993
Subject: Greenhouse and Pumpkin Request
While making plans for our new Target store in Chanhassen, I have
been made aware of Chanhassen "s ordinance on outdoor sales and storage.
I have been in contact with several people from the city including
Don Chmiel and Paul Krauss and was happy to hear that the ordinance
will be reviewed to possibly allow businesses to have temporary
structures up for promotions.
Target has two programs that include temporary outside structures.
One program is the Halloween pumpkins we sell from October 1 through
October 31 which are housed in a wooden bin outside the front
entrance doors. Our other program involves a temporary greenhouse
structure which is secured to the ground with a ballast weight
program. The greenhouse is kept up from May 1 through mid -June.
I understand that the ordinance charge will not be known until after
the second City Council meeting in September. In order for us to
carry pumpkins for the month of October we would need to have that
approved before September 1. We are willing to follow all of the
City ordinances, but ask if our pumpkin promotion could be approved
by the City before the September meeting.
Attached are details of our two promotions and also a diagram of
where the temporary structures would be located. Your considerationn
of this request is greatly appreciated. If you have any questions or
co -rents please call me at 949 -8631. Thanks again.
RECEIVED
nUr 1993
CITY OF CHANHASSE N
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
' REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 15, 1993
' Vice Chairman Conrad called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT:, Joe Scott, Ladd Conrad, Nancy Mancino, Jeff Farmakes, Diane
' Harberts and Matt Ledvina
MEMBERS ABSENT:, Brian Batzli
' STAFF PRESENT:. Kate Aanenson, Senior Planner
'
PUBLIC HEARING:
` CONSIDER AN AMENDMENT TO THE CITY CODE REGARDING TEMPORARY.
SALES.
Kate Aanenson presented the staff report on this item. Vice Chair Conrad called the public
' hearing to order.
Conrad: I'm just going to open it up for, I'm not going to go round robin.
Ledvina: Is this a public hearing?
Conrad: It is a public hearing. We'll note that there is nobody from the public here but I
don't.
Aanenson: I think when we get a regular ordinances ... we did talk with people from Target
today who did request pumpkin sales in front of the Target for their grand opening and the
Council felt that, was uncomfortable with that. They felt that the pumpkins should be inside
the store and not outside.
' Scott: Say what?
Aanenson: I think we need to differentiate because we had this request often times ... where
they want to have a sidewalk sales and that sort of thing ... and maybe that's the time that we
can tie in with ... or maybe they're in the Arts Festival or something like that when there ... that
that would be the appropriate time to have sidewalk sales.
' Mancino: But wouldn't that almost be used as an interim use? Only because they could plan
ahead and do that. You know every year we were going to have a 4th of July outdoor
sidewalk sale.
' I
Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
Aanenson: You could except I think you'd have to, you know get ... I'm just looking at if you
want to see that, if you establish a criteria and you feel comfortable with that, then I think we
could go through that permit. If it's something you don't feel comfortable with or they don't
agree to the criteria you've established, then I think you do want to look at it.
Mancino: Well the only thing I'm not clear about, what is, would be under temporary sales.
What's going to be under interim use and what's going to be under conditional use? I'm not
clear.
Aanenson: I think the only one staff is a little uncomfortable with at this time is more on a
produce kind of line where it's grown or maybe flowers, pumpkins, Christmas trees. Those
sort of things. They're not looking at bringing in merchandise.
Mancino: So that's seasonal?
Aanenson: Right.
Mancino: Because if they have to be grown.
Aanenson: Right.
Mancino: So does that mean that our definition of temporary sales is temporary seasonal
sales?
Aanenson: Yeah, that's how the staff feels comfortable doing it.
Scott: You could maybe call it seasonal agricultural products and then we don't have Elvis
paintings, I know darn anyway.
Farmakes: My worry about that is, what if you, what if you get a bad load of shrimp up here
or something?
Scott: Well I don't know if you could, that's not agricultural though.
Harberts: It is.
Scott: No it's.
Harberts: It's regulated under the Department of Agriculture.
2
Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
Scott: Plant material.
Farmakes: For temporary use, what we're saying is ... I think they've got seasonal shrimp.
They have the Christmas tree lot and they have the ... or something showing up with a bar -be-
que and they sell hotdogs. And on occasion, it seems quite often on occasion, they have
truckloads of pop coming in for sale and I don't know if that's non - profit or if that's part of
the supermarket that got a good buy on pop. They have teaser type sales stuff where there
will run an ad at a very low price to get people to come in and do their shopping. So the
limitations of doing that type of stuff, does that become.
' Aanenson: You can see the depth of the problem trying to define. That's one of the other
things Target had requested too. Is to put a greenhouse... and you'll notice a lot of grocery
stores they try to do that. In the summer there may be overflow parking. In the winter,
unless they clear all the snow off, if you want Christmas trees down there, that could be a
real problem. So they can really proliferate. That's why we need to be careful about what we
' allow and how many we allow on the site.
Farmakes: Do we limit, you limit a site location but do you limit, let's say for Market
' Square. You have how many stores there. Do you allow each store to do a promotion? Or
do you limit the numbers or do you just limit it to that site itself?
' Aanenson: I think we would be saying... because that's part of an PUD, that whole center. I
would say if you say they can have a grand opening or let's say they tie the 4th of July
celebration. That would be the sidewalk sales. Whatever promotion they want to do then.
Because with the sign ordinance, we want to allow them 3 times a year to have special
signage and I think that's kind of what we would like to see ... and then the seasonal thing ... falI
' or summer and winter.
Harberts: How would you categorize, I noticed when Festival does a brat wagon.
' Aanenson: That would fall under, that was kind of a summer festival kind of thing. A grand
opening. We do allow one grand opening. I think that's what Target was going to do.
Harberts: I think I counted it more than once though.
' Aanenson: They also have requests for Girl Scouts who want to sell cookies out front. It's a
never ending thing. I think there's certain things we sort of want to control but do we want to
be out there if someone's selling...
K
Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
Scott: No, because I think that, I mean I personally don't like to get hassled. It's a hassle
enough to out and buy something at retail and it's especially bad I think when you have the
Nestea Clown out there trying to get you to take a drink of something. So I mean I think if
we're talking about, it's going to be we have the different zoning areas. I think also too when
you talk about property owners doing something on their own behalf versus someone getting
permission from a property owner, I think we need to be a little bit more restrictive in that
sense. I think we should give a fair amount of leeway to non - profits. But the thing I don't
want to see is.
Harberts: Community based non - profit.
Scott: Yeah, there you go. Yeah, community based non - profit. The thing I don't want to see
is, I don't want to see people from who knows where getting permission from somebody and
who knows what the heck they're going to sell.
Farmakes: Can you target use to industry? I mean you're saying agriculture. Can you do
that?
Aanenson: Well I did speak to Roger about that issue and there is, you have to ... I did call
some other cities and ask what they do. Sometimes they restrict ... but then they choose on the
other hand, just to ignore the corn huts and that sort of thing.
Farmakes: The only thing that worries me obviously, it's almost that corn or something have
a built in protection. There are some perishable type foods. Who's responsible if that's not
up to par, and I'm not familiar enough with that industry to know how they touch that or
who's legally responsible if someone gets ill. Are those people gone in 2 weeks and back
down to Florida?
Mancino: I feel I take my chance when I stop at the hot meat man or the hot shrimp man or
woman, and buy something and I don't know but that's kind of my responsibility. Are they
going to be there the next day? I doubt it.
Scott: Well that's why I think if we talk about local groups and obviously Christmas trees
aren't grown locally but I mean we think about who sells Christmas trees. We're talking
about the Lions. Well that's what I mean. I think if we're looking at the local non - profits
and limiting it to, as we can legally, but I think we've got some leeway. I like what you're
doing with, if you owned the property or you're something like Market Square. You have 3
of these a year and that's great. I'd actually like to see 4 of them a year so they can do
something quarterly but you know, be that as it may. But I think we have to be really
4
Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
careful. I think I know what you don't want. I know what I don't want to see is this random
' junk. People selling junk.
Farmakes: So this wouldn't be for individual stores per se? This would be considered for the
' entire development?
Conrad: It should be for stores. I think the stores should have the opportunity to do their, if
they wanted a truckload sale, or if they wanted a special event.
Farmakes: You have individual stores and you've got 16 stores and they each had 4, then you
would multiply that times 16.
Conrad: You've got that potential.
Scott: But it doesn't, I think from a sanity standpoint, what the people tend to do at a
' shopping mall is that there's usually some sort of a loose association where they say okay.
We all want to have this sidewalk sale. Let's all have it at once so the tendency, if you look
at Market Square and some of the other places in town, where there's some sort of an
association, they tend to do it all at once and it makes better business sense because you want
to attract as many people as possible.
' Farmakes: But that's really a different animal. If you have a sole proprietor, you're not going
to have the money to do the type of advertising for special events. So if they go through
their association and they advertise an item, that's one promotion. You have an individual
' store doing a promotion, it usually has to be a fairly large store to advertise it. So you've got
Festival say, how do you, does Festival go ahead and take up the 4 times versus the smaller
store that doesn't have the opportunities of being able to do it even once a year.
' Aanenson: I think we need to break them into two categories. Like to see is one would be, a
group that wants to find a space to sell Christmas trees... They're not tenants in the city
' currently. That's.
' Mancino: They're not owners of property.
Aanenson: Then we need another category of people that are in town already doing business
that want to have a temporary or a grand opening or a summer sale, whatever. So I think
' right away I think there are two different types of uses.
Farmakes: So do you figure that by how you classify what they're selling as non - merchandise
and you do that solely by they're somebody totally separate. Say for instance I'm assuming
' 5
Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
that somebody is coming in as an individual contractor selling pumpkins at Target. I assume
that Target isn't selling pumpkins.
Conrad: They could do it either way.
Farmakes: That's not their typical merchandise.
Conrad: No, but any other season departments, I don't know what they're doing.
Farmakes: Moonlight sale or Crazy Days, that's getting rid of inventory.
Conrad: Actually Target's garden department never used to be their's, and I'm not sure what
it is right now.
Aanenson: Yeah, one of the things they requested was...
Conrad: But Jeff, it's one of those cases where Target has the responsibility. They are
sanctioning that vendor to come in and so you have, on their property, so it's their integrity
more than. At least we have somebody to count on to be checking them out.
Farmakes: They usually a retailer is going to use them for one of two things. One is to
bring people on a teaser item. And the other is, there's usually a section of parking lot that's
dead. it's too far away from the store and it's usually during non -peak hours, it's usually a
dead spot and it allows them to get some income out of either a percentage of sales or, it isn't
necessarily part of their store. Then the question becomes, as we were talking before, the
difference between merchandising and a seasonal type sales use. Christmas tree versus a...
Scott: How would this also affect Septemberfest, Art Festival, St. Hubert's Harvest Festival?
Aanenson: ...the city's really never done anything.
Farmakes: Like if you had a flea market on a parking lot.
Aanenson: Well one of the things we looked at too, if we did a park and ride ... that'd be a
great place for a farmers market and that may be a place where we ... but that'd be a great
place to make sure...
Scott: So it's kind of what we need to do is to come up with 3 or 2 classifications of things.
I mean it's like there's the agricultural stuff. Seasonal agricultural stuff. The local not for
profit seasonal thing. Then there are, I don't know if you'd want to call them city sponsored
2
' Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
or local, a festival sponsored by local organizations. Maybe that's another little bucket but I
think if we can separate these things out and then be able to deal with them individually,
perhaps that's because I can see this thing being a huge octopus with all sorts of.
Conrad: Well it shouldn't be complicated you know and I think there's also a trigger if
there's, I think the rules will never be Tight. They'll always be, so the rules have to take care
of a certain amount of things and if it doesn't, then they kick it into, then it comes to the
Planning Commission and we take a look at it. Yeah, and that may take some time and that
will discourage some people but that's the way it will have to be. This could be really a
fiasco. You can out guess all the things we're talking about here and I'd rather not see a huge
ordinance. I think the logic for what we're doing and not have it come through the Planning
Commission. If we can come up with the standards that are simple, that are real clear that we
know that we're controlling them, then it should be administrative approval. For those things
we can't figure out because there are too many variables, they've got to come in to see us.
Farmakes: Then I think you should clarify the intent of what we don't want up front. Maybe
that's the...
Conrad: The only other thing Kate, I think you've got to keep in the back of you mind, you
know what other shopping centers and other retailers are doing. I don't think we're trying to
be, well you see what they're doing. The sidewalk sales are very typical. Sometimes there
' are truckload sales, and I think some of those are fun things. I guess I .don't feel that we need
to discourage those. I think we're trying to prevent some of this other stuff from happening:
That's the bulk of this ordinance. Not to keep Target from having pumpkins out in the front
' of their store.
Scott: Isn't it what we don't want transient for profit merchandising going on in town, unless
' it's controlled very tightly.
Conrad: Yeah, right.
Scott: Is that kind of what we're doing?
Aanenson: ...temporary sales currently being outdoor storage.
Conrad: Right.
' Scott: That's like the first two sentences. This ordinance is designed to discourage the
following, you know two sentences.
Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
Farmakes: It would be helpful though if we do get a farmers market type situation, that
would be helpful to, so you don't have these kind of location signs all over the city and
cardboard. You know, I'm not sure though, can you do an ordinance? I can see that we've
done profit and non - profit for things like in signage. But can you designate that it has to be
local non - profit? I've never heard of that.
Scott: That's the intent but I mean I think.
Mancino: Legally, I doubt it.
Harberts: No because then you're discriminating.
Farmakes: Particularly if you're targeting industries. I'm not sure if the signage I know that
if it had to be fairly unrestrictive of industry that was applied across the board. A temporary
sign for a house. A temporary sign for a building.
Scott: Or do we grandfather in certain things that we.
Farmakes: I noticed that ... said it was illegal in the zoning to target, when we were talking
about Highway 5, it was illegal to target a specific industry. That would make it more
restrictive for hotels.
Scott: Or auto related uses?
Harberts: I'm guessing Kate that you've talked with other cities or continue to talk with other
cities. You know I think that with an ordinance you could, what you don't want to do is get
into a checklist situation and I think you have to look at what is your overall goal in terms of
what you're trying to, I guess control. Because of whatever reason. If it's public safety
related or whatever. I think that really has to be the basis. In terms of the overall goal that
you're trying to achieve with the ordinance otherwise you start getting into a checklist and it's
almost like you're creating a, I don't know, maybe to some extent a glass, a bubble around
Chanhassen in terms of we'll allow you in or we won't allow you to do this and I don't think
that's really what the role of government is all about.
Farmakes: There's one other thing too that we're not, right now we do Oktoberfest and a
couple other, two seasonal holidays. Excelsior does a lot more. They draw a lot of people
in. Currently we don't really have a location for that unless we use the parking lot or baseball
field. If the city does, say finish that park up in front, they may have, or the farmers market
there may be an opportunity to have like a citywide type situation for that can be
8
Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
conditions made for flea markets and that type of thing throughout the city. Again, that'd be
t on a limited basis.
Harberts: Is there an opportunity to keep the ordinance to some flexibility? You know as
' maybe Chanhassen matures towards this type of issue, I think there's a lot of what if s and I
think we need to keep that ordinance, or potential ordinance somewhat flexible so we can
maybe address those things as things develop here. But I think again the overall goal is to,
what are we really striving to do. I don't think we want to make things burdensome for
anyone but you know there's clearly reasons to regulate different sales. Temporary sales or
whatever.
Aanenson: In the past we haven't had any large anchors downtown before. So now ... and
we're not sure if we approve those uses ... we want all this stuff outside. And so some of it
does ... with the community. I guess what we're looking for is...
Scott: And if it's a tenant or a landowner, that's one thing and we can say you can do 4 of
those a year. And then if it's somebody who's temporarily leasing, I think that's a whole
other, different use and different type of merchandising and then throw in the non - profit piece
1 so I think those three things, that keeps something fairly simple and you can always amend an
ordinance you know.
Conrad: Well, do you have enough input? I think that's pretty good. And I think the intent
of this is real important. I think you've heard some good comments from the people here.
' Ledvina: I have some specifics. I don't know if you wanted to hear.
Conrad: Go ahead. Now's the time.
Ledvina: Well, I'll just start out and say that just kind of following up on Ladd's idea to
provide some guidance on what constitutes an application that would necessitate it coming
before the Planning Commission. I think maybe all these things that we've talked about go in
an intent statement and then kind of a little blueprint for an applicant that serves as, if you're
going beyond or cannot meet the requirements that are laid out here and you always have the
right to go to the Planning Commission to discuss your proposal. So I think that would be
appropriate. On page 4, standards for temporary sales on the bottom of the page. I have a
real problem with that language. Just save the clause, including any additional conditions as
f may be established by the Planning Department. I think Diane would say, well enables you
to have the flexibility but I don't know. That's kind of carte blanche and I don't kind of like
that. So take a close look at that. If there's a way of saying it a little bit differently, I would
prefer that.
9
Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
Aanenson: It's hard to hit all things. Sometimes...
Ledvina: I understand the difficulty but at the same time, you don't want a situation where
the applicant feels that you have the power or you can point to this thing in the ordinance and
say, well we can make you confine your operation to 10 x 30 rectangle or something like
that. And that's our condition. I don't know. Maybe that's obtuse but.
Aanenson: I can think of a couple ways we can handle that. Why don't we just say, any
other proof that would deemed necessary and then we could put a clause that would say, if
staff feels that the information that's been provided is insufficient, then we would request that
you come here. It'd be like what you're giving them...
Ledvina: That's fine. If we could just take another look at that because.
Conrad: And that triggers a thought for things going through here. Is the City Council
always the end? It doesn't have to be. Planning Commission could be the grantor of the
permit. A lot of responsibility folks.
Mancino: My shoulders are heavy.
Conrad: That is an alternative to shortening the process. I think you can make us. They
won't is my guess but.
Scott: We're usurping their.
Conrad: It is a way to shorten it.
Aanenson: To shorten the process and that's the part...
Farmakes: Granting a permit, you don't waive the rest of the city ordinance? Say for
temporary signs. There's a size limitation for temporary signs. They have to conform to
that....
Aanenson: ...limiting walls signs and we did...
Ledvina: That's another thing. That was my exact next point. If you've got the Boy Scouts,
they don't even have a warming shack. I mean if they don't have, if they're limited to wall
signs, then they don't have any signs.
Farmakes: Temporary signs don't necessarily have to be wall signs though.
10
Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
' Ledvina: But it says right here.
Farmakes: What is it, it's 4 x 8?
' Mancino: I thought they always had a warming shack.
Ledvina: Okay, whatever. But 1 mean, a trash barrel or something. And then if you're
' saying they have to conform to the ordinance, which is, I think it's 15% of the wall space in
the frontage or something like that. If they got this little bitty trailer, or whatever, they're not
' going to be happy with a 15% as a sign this big or something. I don't know.
Farmakes: That formula gives them a minimum they can make. I think that's 4 x 8 on a
' temporary sign. And they could build that. That formula comes into play when you have
massive Targets.
' Ledvina: I don't know. I guess I would just like you to revisit that item there.
Conrad: Can they have banners? They can, can't they?
' Ledvina: Yeah, I don't know. I don't care. Streamers, banners.
Conrad: Banners would typically be the way to do it.
Ledvina: Little kids with sandwich signs walking around.
Scott: Also too, if there are things like, I get concerned about the temporary food sales. And
as part of the permitting process should be anything that's licensed by the Department of
' Agriculture or the State. The Board of Health or you know, whatever. I don't know who
these authorities are. They should be made to produce a copy of their certificate or whatever
that happens to be. I think we should take advantage of work that other governmental bodies
have done to regulate stuff and piggy back on that as much as possible.
Conrad: What else do you have Matt?
Ledvina: And then I'd just like to go on record as saying that I think Target should have
their 4 x 4 bin of pumpkins.
Scott: That's all it is?
Ledvina: It's 4 x 12, I'm sorry.
' 11
Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
Mancino: 4 feet by 12 feet.
Ledvina: Yeah. 4 feet by 12 feet. I think they should be able to have their bin of pumpkins.
Scott: Yeah. I'd go on record as saying they should have their pumpkins too.
Conrad: You know if you want to see an affect, Cub effectively merchandises the front of
their store in a very presentable way so it's not tacky. We're trying to get rid of tacky but it's
fun to walk into their store. Sometimes it's cut case stuff. Sometimes it spells out, you know
merchandise that spells out things. Or it's pumpkins. Nice merchandising. Makes it a little
friendlier. It doesn't last forever. Gee I'd hate to see us discourage them and become this
clinical looking town. Antiseptic type of thing. I don't think we want that.
Mancino: How long do you think of as temporary? Two months?
Aanenson: Well, I think... each type of use. Now you have a produce stand, it may be 6 to 8
weeks. That's something we're going to have to try to establish with each different type. If
it's the Christmas tree sales, probably Thanksgiving until the day after Christmas. So I think
the one... seasonal. That they're leasing the space and try to give a time line for those. The
owner occupied, the guy that owns the ... pot sales, things like that, I think we limit those to
maybe a week, 3 times a year or whatever we decide...
Scott: You're heading in the right direction. I like that.
Aanenson: Because if they do want to sell brats out there once a year...
Ledvina: Other than that, I guess I support, generally I support the ordinance and I think it's
reasonable. Reasonably good effort.
Conrad: Unless there's anything else, Kate I don't think we need a motion. Just go and do it
and then we will, it will be a public hearing when it comes back. Okay.
Farmakes: We should be aware too that there's, the Highway S situation, the sign ordinance
is coming up. The architectural ordinance is in there. They're all sort of merged together. I
think it wasn't necessarily planned that way but we have to be aware I think that there may be
a perception to the Chamber that we are being anti business on some of these issues. And we
should be aware of that potential and try and deal with that through communication. I know
the last meeting we had, Brad stood up and said that for instance the parking ordinance was
anti business. And you were talking about the signage package and saying, when in fact ... It
was half of the committee were members of the Chamber but they weren't part of Market
12
Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
Square. Well, I mean I think we need to be up front with that and let people know and talk
about that. Address that every time it's brought up and try to be educational about that.
Especially on the intent statements of what these things you're accomplishing, rather than
arguing. No matter how you do it, it's going to affect somebody's business in some particular
way and I think that the perception is that the people who are sitting on the Commission don't
know anything about me trying to make a living in the business world and you're arbitrarily
making restrictions on me when I'm trying to make a living and pay a couple of people and
pay my bills and pay the taxes and so on and I don't need that type of bureaucracy thrown at
me. In a way that's easy to come up and say and the opposite direction is kind of hard for us
to come up with these ordinances to make a community that we want to live in.
they will have the opportunity to have input. If they don't, c'est la vie.
Scott: It's an interesting circumstance because I know that on the sign ordinance, even
before, I mean when, before things got serious, I got a call from Paul saying Joe, we're going
to do this sign ordinance. Can you give me some names of some people on the Chamber of
Commerce who'd be interested and that's how Kevin McShane got on there and all those sorts
of things. And I quite frankly don't have any sympathy for business people in town who
don't get involved in the Chamber of Commerce because Kate sits on our Board. She's at
every Board meeting and there are a large number of people who get involved in this kind of
input, but I have no sympathy for business owners who don't get involved in the process and
make this is a very, this is a commercial for the Chamber membership obviously. But if they
want to get involved and they're members of the Chamber, they'll know what's going on and
Farmakes
up a 40 foot pylon signs down the main drag of downtown so that they can be seen from
Highway 5. It's to someone's advantage and someone's going to want to do that. Who and
when we feel we don't think it's right, you're dealing more ascerteric things. You don't think
it's going to look good or I think that every time that comes up, particularly from the
developer's standpoint, it's going to make them far more easier to sell a lease if they have that
40 foot sign.
We're going to have to know that it's in someone
somewhere's advantage to put
Scott: Then you can't, then another thing too is, you can kind of, I take a look at the Target
situation is that within probably 2 to 3 months, the way Target markets, within 2 to 3 months
of the time they have their grand opening, everybody who could potentially buy stuff there in
their market area will know where it is. So a 40 foot pylon sign, you know. And I can see
from a developer's standpoint, you know for rents, for leasing and that sort of thing, they have
the opportunity to say well we're going to, this is the signage and signage and parking are the
two hot things when you're trying to lease property. But then we also have to take it with a
grain of salt because obviously they want the world so they can give part of that world to
their lessee's. So when I hear business people talk about things, some of them are very, very
13
Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
good at explaining, you know this is what I really need. Very straight forward versus the
embellishment and I think as a Planning Commission, we have to see through the
embellishment and kind of cut down to what do these people really need.
Conrad: You have to give them reasonable exposure. That's a fundamental thing. That's
part of the business. It's just where is, what is reasonable and whether it be, I can empathize.
I work for a lot of people that depend on signage and Jeff, you know a lot about signage.
Farmakes: But we don't seem to argue the intent. It's just, you know Brad was up here and
he's ... he wasn't arguing the intent. And that's what really seems that we should be
communicating on. What the intent of what we're trying to do. The thing... come back on
something that would fit in to how they're doing something, fine. Come forward and say
what they are.
Conrad: But it is, boy these are tough issues. Signage for services. Signage and strip type-
malls. Compare what's on the Frontier building. That doesn't light up but is relatively ugly.
We don't find fault. At least I haven't heard a lot of fault with those signs but they're not
attractive. They just don't light up. But we find a lot of fault with the ones that light up.
And we find a lot of fault by putting more than 6 per running feet on 100 or 200 foot
building. We find a lot of fault there if they're more than 14 inches. But go out and take a
look. The signs on the Frontier building are not a piece of art. They're pretty ugly and again,
it's tough to come to these conclusions. Or come to, not to a conclusion but come to what's
the style for Chanhassen. I don't claim to know it. I just know that reasonable works and if
you give them some reasonable exposure, nobody's going to complain and then the standards
really make sense beyond that. To aesthetically keep Chanhassen a good looking community.
Farmakes: I said the same thing.. looking for a reasonable type structures with
reasonable type of quality.
Scott: High quality.
Conrad: See that's where, I think the high quality is such an important deal.
Farmakes: But we still deal with minimums. I mean we're selling high quality. Our
ordinances deal with minimum requirements.
Conrad: You're right.
Mancino: Well I just want to add one thing, a little bit about the Tree Board. We are doing
some new ordinances with landscaping and how much developer's can remove from the lots,
14
Planning Commission Meeting - September 15, 1993
etc and we invited them to our meeting last Monday night and not one showed up so we are
going to hold a second meeting on the 27th of this month hoping that developers will show
up because they have a concern about what we're doing for tree preservation. So we're
hoping that before we get it into the Planning Commission that we have reviewed it with
them and we've listened to them and made some revisions or whatever. So we're very
definitely on the Tree Board trying to bring the developers into the process and making sure
that we communicate with them before coming here.
Conrad: That's good that you're doing that. That's the way the process should work. They
shouldn't come to the meeting of the public hearing and raise issues at that point in time.
Okay.
CONTINUE DISCUSSION OF BOULEVARD ALTERNATIVES NORTH OF HIGHWAY 5.,
Kate Aanenson presented the staff report on this item.
Conrad: Any comments?
Ledvina: So we have to have, I saw three public meetings.
Aanenson: We thought maybe just two meetings specifically on the plans and then one
public hearing but if we need 3 meetings before we can hold a public hearing to go through
the whole document.
Ledvina: But how many public hearings do we need?
Aanenson: One.
■ Ledvina: One.
' Aanenson: Specifically we don't need a public hearing on the preferred alignment because
that just needs to be an information meeting. We do need a public hearing on the Comp Plan
amendment.
Ledvina: How about the Environmental Assessment?
t Aanenson: The Environmental Assessment's ... We don't need a public hearing specifically.
We just need information which we have held but I think in fairness because of looking at the
land use.
■
15
Planning Commission Meeting - August 16, 1995
(Ci,uo Peterson left the n►eetino at this point and was not available to vote on the remaining
items.)
PUBLIC HEARING:
AN AIVIENDNIENT TO THE CITY CODE REGARDING SEASONAL/TEMPORARY
SALES.
Public Present:
Name Address
Vernelle Clayton
Cathy Gatlin
John Rask pitsented the staff repot on this item.
Mancino: Thunl: you John. Any questions for staff?
Conrad: Where did the $400.00 permit fee come from?
Rask: I don't know.
Conrad: Does it cover administrative costs?
Rask: It seems like a good way of discouraging temporary sales. It think too that is guided
for longer term uses. We're not proposing on eliminating that. If somebody wanted to have
temporary sales or outdoor storage, that would be something that would take review by the
Planning Commission so that would still be left in there. You know for lawn and garden for
example. If they wanted to display things outdoor, they certainly could provide that type of
use. But those are the hinds of things we don't want in the temporary sales ordinance. We
want to review those separately.
Aanenson: Again, the way this was set up and the way John tried to do it is we're trying to
separate the temporary sales from outdoor display and that's kind of where it got gray. It's
something that's ongoing all the time. I mean there's certain things that have a longer life and
it just needs, John had put in here the 60 days. There's certain things that have longer
seasons. Christmas tree sales you know, 30 -45 days. But some things, just your sidewalk
sale on a weekend. That's the intent. That they be shorter and temporary.
Mancino: Why do we have it OI?
52
Planning Commission Meeting - August 16, 1995
Rask: That is sC11001S, churches.
Aanenson: if a certain church would have a festival.
Mancino: Gotch ya. I know one that's in OI. Okay.
Aanenson: Well a lot of churches do that too. They have—and it's important to keep.
Mancino: Good. Do I have a motion to open this for a public hearing?
Meyer moved, Skubic seconded to open the public healing. The public healing was opened.
Mancino: I see people here who I'm sure have something to say. You're here a lot this
week.
Vernelle Clayton: ...dissertation on that subject. The subject of down zoning just two nights
ago so I'm glad to hear you talk about it. And although I have to say..I think staff does need
some direction more than just requests because at the point that some of you have ... now
they're forced to spend 100 hours on it and bring it to you and the developers spends
$10,000.00 to $50,000.00 on it and everybody falls in love. I think something needs to be
done before the staff starts on it. And the Council, a couple of the members suggested that
they weren't really inclined to do any more down zoning of any type unless there was equal...
on some other piece that was presented to them at the same time. And I don't think, I
think... idea. 1 think you have to ask Council for direction. Because your job is just to review
does it fit. We can say...
Mancino: But the other part of that is, when somebody brings in something to the staff, staff
can say no. We don't want to do this and they can still force the staff to go through the
process. So that's the other side of it.
Vernelle Clayton: ...every time something's down zoned, something has to be up zoned. That
means before you start the process, everybody would know that.
Mancino: It would be so nice if life were that clean and I think that's why we also brought
up tonight that we'd be looking at some 1995 study areas in the south and some mixed use in
the other but it's a good.
Vernelle Clayton: ...to look at and right now there's nothing in place that says that she
doesn't have to spend all her time and everybody on here to spend a lot of time on it. It's just
an unfortunate situation that... Well anyway, that issue was brought up the other night... I just
53
Planning Commission Meeting - August 16, 1995
wanted to say briefly on this subject that Cathy and I had so much fun working with the sign
ordinance that we did some more. This one has taken as long but speaking of fun, I think
that's kind of what we have in mind. We want to make it a simple, uncomplicated for
retailers as well as the staff. Not something that would waste a whole lot of everyone's time.
Not every retailer plans a long time in advance when they're going to have something fun.
This doesn't seem like it Would ... every other week. ...retail special promotions. A retail
center promotion and Cathy and I keep our...get something city wide going from time to time
so we'd like to encourage that...and John, thank you.
Mancino: Anyone else.
Cathy Gatlin: I think how it's outlined, I'm Cathy Gatlin, Chamber of Commerce.
Mancino: And your address.
Cathy Gatlin: 5036... Road, Minnetonka. The only thing I wanted to add, because I think it's
fairly clearly spelled out and it's just that this actually ties in with what the city's looking for
and that's to increase foot traffic and that was something that was discussed... earlier. The city
is planning and Setting up walkways and purchasing things for foot traffic...
Mancino: Thant: you. Anyone else? Seeing none, may I have a motion to close the public
hearing?
Skubic uio%ed, Cuniad seconded to close the public hearing. The public hea ina was closed.
Mancino: Ladd.
Conrad: It looks just fine to me. To go back to something I raised before, and it will
probably be out of context but under 6. Page 6. Temporary food and beverage sales, under
(b). And I go back to one thing I really like and that's something that Cub does and it's the
charity grilling. And they do it almost every weekend. And it's not obtrusive and it's really
kind of a neat little deal so what does our ordinance tell you about what we can, what they
can do if Festival or Byerly's wants to start the same thing.
Aanenson: "'ell Verneile is certainly very cognizant of this. When they came in for a PUD,
they weren't allowed to do that sort of thing and this is one of the areas that the Council also
had a problem with is having those things on every weekend. They, from my recollection
there seemed to be some support but it was for non - profit. But then they're marketing a
certain brand. Also a gray area. I guess we were trying to attempt with the Council's issue,
that wasn't a significant issue with the Council last time of having that sort of thing. Whether
54
Planning Commission Meeting - August 16, 1995
they needed Girl Scouts selling cookies out there or as you say, somebody grilling every
' weekend for charity. So we tried to temper the standard by making something the Council
would still consider this. If it's every weekend, I'm not sure it's a big issue but the Council
seemed to think so. But if you wanted to give a recommendation. Your recommendation
different than that, then we'll pass that on.
Conrad: I don't know. I'm not sure I have a real good. I think the intent of the ordinance is
' pretty good. I think there just needs a little, I wrote on this thing. That was the only one of
the few things that dust sort of stuck out. And I can't take it anyplace. I'm not sure so I'm
talking for nothing. Backing up one page. Required information and plans. Under (b). 3(b).
' A copy of the approved site plan drawn to scale. So we'll accept a hand written. What will
we accept?
Aanenson: For the most part we have site plans on file.
Rask: Sure. Yeah, we'd be certainly willing to pull those up but I think for just about every
' downtown establishment, we'd have a site plan and we have a reduced site plan for most of
them which ��e could copy and give to them. Otherwise, I mean if they want to go out and
count parking' spots, I mean we I think have a fairly clear idea of how many are there.
Conrad: Okay, so Market Square comes in and we're going to have a sidewalk sale. What
' do they have to do?
Rask: Provide the plan. \Ve'd certainly, if it's going to be just immediately in front of their
' store, and it's not going to obstruct the walkway, they're not going to take up any parking
spots. But say ... Bicycle wants to sell, take up 4 or 5 parking spots to put out some bikes on
display on the weekend. I think we'd have enough of a feel of Market Square, and there are
' some additional parking spots there anyway because Festival had put some in for their
expansion area So we know there's extra spots out there. 5 isn't going to create a traffic
hazard at Nlarket Square so. But if they wanted to put up a tent and have a huge bike sale
' with 200 bikes and they were occupying a large area, we'd certainly have to look at it closer
and see what the, how many they're occupying and what's required and go from there.
' Conrad: So iii some cases you won't require anything and then in some cases.
Aanenson: It depends on the scale. You know if someone's going to block off the sidewalk,
there is for example at Market Square there is an adjacent property where they're going to
expand where the remaining area is and that's an appropriate place for some of these things
like Christmas tree sales because there is a large. But if you're going to put it in the middle
of the parking lot, then we have a bigger concern so again it depends on the scope of what it
1 55
Planning Commission Meeting - August 16, 1995
is. And the longevity. If it's Christmas trees, you're going to have a lot longer but that tends
to be more weekends and nights. A bike sale may be more concentrated so it just depends.
You have to kind of be flexible on these things and I guess that's what we're trying to build
in here is a little bit of flexibility.
Conrad: The wording didn't seem flexible. And I looked at this thing...
Aanenson: Right, what we do is we look at Market Square and we say please draw in here
where you're intending to be so we have some idea what we can hold you to. You know how
big is it. How big is the use going to be. What kind of additional parking that would
demand.
Mancino: That's what it said to me.
Conrad: Flexible'?
Mancino: �'es.
Aanenson: Try to get an idea of the scope.
Mancino: I Ille,111 just the feel...
Conrad: A copy of the approved site plan drawn to scale for the property. That doesn't
sound real flexible to me so if you had a different. If you all read it a different way, that's
fine. Kate's interpretation is real good. That's absolutely where we want it to be.
Mancino: We can put in parenthesis, pick up from City Hall or.
Aanenson: Sure, and that's the intent. We do have most of them. And the ones we don't, we
would scale off. if you're going into a vacant piece but it has acceptable curb cuts. For
example the Legion site. I'm not sure that we've got a scale building there but if they were to
draw something up showing we're going to be back 200 feet, just so we know for the safety
items.
Conrad: I'm not picking.
Aanenson: We don't want the registered land surveyor to come out.
Meyer: I think what he's saying though is it's saying that it is required and that maybe it
should say that it may be required.
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Planning Commission Meeting August 16, 1995
� 5 a
Conrad: It could say. It could say, staff may require.
Aanenson: Okay, that'd be fine.
Conrad: Based on scale.
Aanenson: Sure.
t Conrad: That's it. That's a good ordinance. I like it.
' Mancino: Bob.
Skublc: Looks line to lne. I don't have any Comments.
Mancino: Do we have to put in anything about non- alcoholic beverage sales? Or is that just
' given?
Rask: I think that's covered in, I don't know what Chapter it is but the chapter that deals with
' liquor licenses and so forth.
Mancino: A question about you know Holiday and those stations right now that have all their
' stuff outside. 1 mean.
Aanenson: That falls into display.
Mancino: Display? 1 saw a car just ram into those salt packs and all the salt's all over and I
said to the person, you know wlio was managing the Holiday store. I said you know you
may want to move those. Maybe that's trying to show you that they're not in the right place.
Aanenson: That really goes back to our ordinance about outdoor display and that's something
that's more a code enforcement issue. We have certain businesses that by nature tend to do
those sort of things. I think gas stations are one of them. When they put the windshield
' washer fluid out and stack it or salt or something. But that doesn't fall into here. That's
really outdoor display which is an enforcement issue. It's a well taken comment.
Mancino: The only colnlnent, I think this is fine. The only comment that I have that I would
like to pass on to Cathy and Vernelle is that, I would love to see the city of Chanhassen
either retail center or as a city do something. I could care less about individual retailers. I'd
' like to see it done where you put up the banner and you say, September 15th through the 17th
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 16, 1995
is Octoberfest Days and you know, you close one end of Market Square and the another one
and you tell people where to park and it's open and you can walk and it's everybody because
we don't do anything as a whole city and I would dearly love to see that a few times a
summer.
Cathy Gatlin: We're working on that committee.
Mancino: And so people know and that you get the city, the community together because I
don't think, I mean to me that's the intent of this. To get the whole community out. The
individual retailer. Tliat's not the same community feeling. So I would really support that
and put that in here somewhere. That you do want it.
Vernelle Clayton: ...February Fest. Do something and like we have banners down at Market
Square and every\\liere else where there are banners. All over town the same banners go up
and they ... but they should be all over.
Mancino: %Vcll and it's, I mean obviously it's like I'm using the example of an Excelsior.
You get people once these trails are in and we vote for the park referendum to come down
their trails and come to the city and come in. Don't bring your cars. You don't need to bring
your vehicles so there's not a parking problem and you know, get on your bike or walk,
whatever. Anyway, so I don't have any other comments. Mike.
Meyer: Either do I.
Mancino: May I have a motion please.
Conrad: Sure. I'll make a recommendation that the Planning Commission approves,
recommends approval to the City Council. Do we have any numbers in here?
Aanenson: No.
Conrad: I'll just make it real, the Temporary Sales Ordinance.
Mancino: As it stands?
Conrad: As recommended and dated something or something. That we see here tonight.
This one's a tough one to pin down but as presented to the Planning Commission on, what's
the date? August.
Anenson 16th.
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 16, 1995
1
Conrad: l6th. \Vith one slight minor revision and that is on 3(b). That the copy of changed,
and I really listen to what staff would like to word it but to work in some flexibility in that so
that maybe, staff may require based on the scale of the event and the rest of the copy but I'll,
and the rest of the copy as already presented in 3(b).
Mancino: I'd like to make a friendly amendment to that. It's something I forgot and it's on
6(1). It says no public address system shall be audible from any residential property. Why
don't we just say there shall be no public address system? Do we really need one for this?
And just put there shall be no. I mean what would do a public address system?
Conrad: Oli you've g if you've got an event, you could have a speech.
Aanenson. Clu music.
1
Conrad: You could have a stage.
I Mancino: Well that's not a band. A band isn't a public address system. It's a speaker system.
Conrad: Well literally it's the same thing.
Mancino: Is IC
Conrad: Yeah. And typically they're smaller units. You're not setting up for a real rock
concert but if you`re on stage, you cannot tall: unless you have a PA. You can't. So even a
minor event. Minor you know, you do need something.
Mancino: And then we have hours In here then? Then we limit the hours that people can
I hear?
Aanenson: That's (g). Hours of operation compatible with adjacent uses so. If there's
residential next door, you know. Evening. Sunset. Whatever, depending on the time of the
year. Maybe 10:00 summers. 6:00, 7:00, 8:00 in the winter.
Mancino: Okay, cross out my friendly amendment. Let it stand as it does. Do I hear a
second?
Meyer: Second.
Coui:td moved, Meyer seconded that the Pl:wning Commission recommend that the City
I Council adopt the Temponi,y Sales OiYlinwce amended on item 3(b) to read that the staff
1 59
Planning Commission Meeting - August 16, 1995
may request a copy of .ui approved site pl.ut is the sc. of the event wariwits one. All voted
in favor of the motion .uid the motion carried.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Meyer moved, Skubic seconded to note the Minutes of the
Planning Commission meeting dated August 2, 1995.
CITY COUNCIL UPDATE.
Aanenson: Nothing was in your packet on the City Council update, being as they met on the
14th. I think I'd just as soon wait until I can articulate it a little bit better. I don't have
anything in front of nle to go through all those and there's some, I think I wouldn't do justice
if I prepared something for you to review such as Southern Oaks and Gestach and those
subdivisions. Vernelle kind of spoke to one of those. I think I'd just as soon wait for your
next meeting. Bob was there, unless he wants to update.
Skubic: Well as you mentioned, I think Southern Oaks was one of the topics and that was
tabled. And the City Council brought up one of the same points that we did, and staff did
previously and %fiat the domino effect of changing the zoning and the fact that these
highways are in f;ict more suited for industrial uses. Buffer areas and so forth. So they were,
it was quite consistent with what ,ve had discussed at the planning meeting.
Mancino: City Council also approved, or told the park referendum task force to go ahead
with purchase agreements. Trying to get purchase agreements on some property for park
acquisition. And what else?
Aanenson: The one on Dogwood was on. They approved that. They did allow them to
delay the improvements to the street until the first building permit is pulled.
Mancino: If there Was all intensity increase.
Aanenson: ...I'll certainly put all the updates in.
Mancino: Okay. Any ongoing items?
ONGOING ITEMS.
Aanenson: Yes. I did put in your packet the State Planning Conference and I was hoping
that maybe Craig or Bob or Mike would have an opportunity to go to these. There's
Thursday and Friday there's the opening. Excuse me, planning foundation ones by the DSU.
I think those will be very informative and give the Planning Commission the opportunity to
60