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1i. Park & Recreationj Commission Minutes Dated August 22, 1995/.,OC, CHANHASSEN PARK AND ' RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING AUGUST 22, 1995 ' Vice Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. ' MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Ron Roeser, Fred Berg, Jim Manders, and Jane Meger, Jim Andrews ' MEMBERS ABSENT: None. STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Supervisor; Dawn Beitel, Recreation Supervisor; and Erik Donnely, Intern ' VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: SCOTT moLENCAMP CHANHASSEN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATIONIN 1996 BALLFIELD USAGE. Scott Molencamp: My name is Scott Molencamp. I've been a resident of Chanhassen for about 8 years. I'm here representing the CAA this evening. I've been involved in CAA for about 6 years, all the way from coaching T -ball to this last year being the President Elect, Baseball Coordinator and next year I'll be the President of the CAA starting in September. What I come tonight to address, or we came to discuss is the availability of the fields for the summer baseball /softball /t -ball program. The numbers have been increasing every year. This year they increased almost 100 kids from the t -ball on up to the 14 year old girls softball. The cut off at the CAA schedule. We're at about 850 kids this year versus a little over 750 last year and most of that is in the really little kids. The t- ballers or the rag bailers. They're well over 100 per age group and each year, what's happening is those kids are moving up and they older groups are getting larger of course. The number of teams and each year ... in order to play twice a week, each team needs a field. The younger kids double up. They get two ' games a night. They play an hour so it's not quite a field per team with the younger groups. What we're asking for is to use more of the neighborhood parks. We utilize the parks that have been available to us almost fully. This year we used Saturdays for the t -ball and the rag ball program. For the 5 and 6 year olds and then the 7 year olds, it's the rag ball program. We need Saturdays because they were the ones putting the most burden on the fields because those are the largest numbers. We tried it and it frankly ... a lot of no shows so ... didn't go over too well this year. If it drops ... won't have to do it again next year. Just do the numbers, even if we do get some more fields, we still may have to use Saturdays because we know there are so many fields available and the number of teams are still going to continue to grow. So i what we're asking for is to again use the fields that we have used, which are all the fields at Chanhassen Elementary. The three up there. Carver Beach. We utilized Rice Marsh a little bit but not a lot. We've been kind of getting permission to use that because it's grandfathered in or whatever the reasoning is but it's, we can add more nights to that. We use it just one night a week this year and Saturdays for the t -ball program. Meadow Green 1 and 2 has been used up every night of the week, and also the soccer's been out there and actually Meadow Green is over used in our opinions. We would like to see, can we have a field, some support from the soccer program to move the soccer out of there and use the middle area as strictly the girls softball fields because they're they ones that utilize those fields right now. That would mean finding another site for soccer, and we've discussed some of the possibilities and some of the possibilities would be using one of the baseball /softball fields at one of the neighborhood parks, make you know Chanhassen Hills or Sunset Ridge, which is a huge area. Open the outfields. It's real big, in our opinion, that's big enough for a soccer field and not ask, you know the CAA would not only be asking for use of the baseball fields but possibly moving soccer from Meadow Green to one of those fields. That's going to take some research to find out how the fields would fit in there.,. possibly use the fields. Right now at Meadow Green you have, with the age groups that are there, you have two soccer games a night and at least two softball or baseball games and the younger kids, like I say play for an hour and then another two teams come in and play so in any given night there could be 10 teams using Meadow Green that's quite a bit. I mean the parking, I'm sure you've heard, the street parking is a parking lot and packed. I was informed that there was an emergency vehicle that couldn't make it through the road there because of all the parking. So ... it's our own opinion that soccer be moved out of there, if we. can find another place for soccer. And continue to use Meadow Green for the girls softball program. And then we're using a--couple fields at Lake Ann. Lake Ann #1 is used for the older boys and Lake Ann #2 has pretty well been set aside for the 10 -11 baseball program. And then Lake Ann #3 we share with the adult softball because... being scheduled. What we would like to do, is we looked at some of the parks. The Chanhassen Hills Park has a very nice baseball field. Really nice baseball field. Or softball field or a soccer field, if that's... We understand parking's a problem. What we're asking for is three fields. Three new fields. It'd be Chanhassen Hills, Sunset Ridge and then possibly Curry Farms Park twice a week. Two nights a week. We're talking most of the teams are done within 10 weeks so we're asking for the usage of those fields two nights a week for roughly 10 weeks and that would take a huge burden off of what we've been trying to schedule and it's going to be even worst next year and with the fields at the new rec center not being available next year, we're hoping that it's only one year situation that we have to use the neighborhood parks. Then in '97, with the S fields open up there, we're hoping that the CAA can utilize that as much as possible. I don't know if there's going to be other people requesting those fields. So that's what we're asking for. And I guess the ... the younger kids, there's 120 to 130 per age group right now. They're going to move up so in the future we're going to have to plan for the bigger fields. Hopefully it's going to be Bandimere because in a couple years, the baseball program, the 10 -11 baseball program is not going to fit on Lake Ann #2. There's already 8 to 10 teams every year. We've had teams, because we're playing Victoria and Carver, we're in a league ... on up to 14 year olds are playing in a league with Carver, and we have some home and away games so we've actually had to send two Chanhassen teams to play in some of those cities because they have the field availability. That's great that they let us use them. Not to sit empty but that's, we've got every field 2 ' Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 used... couple nights a week so that's to show you how much usage we're getting. I think we ' can ... Friday nights we're not utilizing the fields because most families won't agree to that. Maybe we'll have to start doing that and let the people decide if the sports. The older kids do use Friday nights but the younger kids, they have families and they really have a hard time with agreeing to do Friday nights, and that would solve all the problems... Andrews: Are there Chaska kids in your club? Scott Molencamp: We allow anybody. This year there might have been 10 -15 Chaska that came in. I mean that's throughout the whole age group. There's been a couple Victoria kids ' every year. Andrews: Okay. Small percentages? Scott Molencamp: Very small percentages. In the younger kids, I don't think there are any ' but the older kids, 1 or 2 per league. Berg: Worse case scenario, if we were to stay with our policy now regarding neighborhood parks, what would happen next year? Scott Molencamp: The kids would either play less. You know they'd be down to one game. ' We'd have to pick which league that would be. Obviously we wouldn't have to cut everybody down to one night a week. Or we could eliminate an age group ... t -ball or do we want 5 year olds. That's the biggest burden right now is t -ball we had 236 kids this year. We had 5 and 6 year olds playing together. But there are a lot of people in Chanhassen that can't wait for their kids to, some fathers will try to sign their kids up at 4...But those are the fields that we use at City Center and those fields we seem to have ... the little kids. We can double up. It's ' the little older, you know the 8 to 9 to 10... We seem to be hurting for that size of field. Andrews: How often do these kids practice? Scott Molencamp: It's twice. I mean at the beginning of the year it's twice, two practices a week and after 2 to 3 weeks of practice, it goes to 2 games a week. Roeser: You don't practice after that? Scott Molencamp: No. Well the older kids do. The coach has got their own practices on weekends or you know, I guess it's only weekends. That's the only time there'd be a field available. Some of the coaches have set up, I don't know whether you've heard about it or not. Some of the neighborhood parks have been used, a coach would just say I live right near 3 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 this park, let's go here and have a practice so there are people using the neighborhood parks, such as Chanhassen Hills and Sunset. Not on a regular basis so I don't know if the city has ever heard a complaint or not about that. Did you hear any this last year or two? Hoffman: Yeah, we receive calls on that. Lash: Complaint calls or what? Hoffman: Chanhassen Hills we have one every once in a while... coach has taken it upon themselves to utilize the facility. Scott Molencamp: Is there a policy that it cannot be used for a particular use? Are the coaches in the wrong for doing that for instance? I mean we just... Hoffman: The Park and Recreation Commission holds the policies of not having organized activities, scheduled activities in the neighborhood parks. Where you draw the line when the coach takes it upon themselves, if you're going to tell the commission that you're advertising to do that, they're going to say it's not in your current policy. If you're going to tell them that they're just doing it on their own, there's not a lot you can do. Scott Molencamp: No, but we... Lash: Jerry I have a question for you. One night we were at Lake Ann for my son's game and it was a make -up game so it wasn't a normal night that we would have been there but at 8:00 a couple of teams came in of bigger kids. I think one was Chaska and one was Waconia or something, I'm not sure. But I was kind of wondering. And they were coming down on us pretty hard to finish up and get off the field because they were scheduled at 8 :00. We thought we had the field until 8:30. But I was kind of wondering with all this scheduling, you know I thought those appeared to be two outside teams coming to play there and I didn't understand what was going on. Ruegemer: Typically what happens is some, with the district baseball programs were going on, it's kind of the joint, it's a district program so Chaska's been supplying fields. Carver has. Chanhassen has as one league. That's been happening last summer. Or this summer. So that's probably what you've seen out there was that league. Sometimes there's Chanhassen teams playing at their locations as well so. Lash: But there were kids from Chan on the team I'm assuming. Ruegemer: Well there's, I don't know if specifically on that team. 4 ' Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: But in the league? ' Rue g emer: Correct. Yeah, there's over a real big percentage of the kids are from Chanhassen so. Gene Gagner: District plays... Scott Molencamp: It's the metro team and that's after 13. That's when we play the Chanhassen boys, as of now. They go to Chaska or they can go to Carver or Victoria. At age 14 they go to Chaska. It's a Chaska program but it's open to Chanhassen kids. That's ' where the kids that play after the age of 13 go. There's talk of Chanhassen, you know another group, not the CAA, getting another baseball program or a baseball/basketball ' program going for the older kids here so if you have the numbers now to put our own league together so there's talk of that happening next year also. ' Andrews: Was that soccer activity, was that games or practices that were up at Meadow Green? Scott Molencamp: Both. And then it's the same thing. With practices and then as the season... ' Andrews: Is that rec league or traveling league, do you know? Scott Molencamp: Well during the summer it's the Chanhassen /Chaska, or Chaska/ Chanhassen Soccer League which is the CAA. It's ... the younger kids. Gene Gagner: It starts when they're 8 with in -house and then once they get to 10, then it's a ' traveling team. Andrews: Sure, okay. I know that Chaska was sending teams up to play on Tonka fields because of no fields so I guess I'd be concerned about taking away another field because I can tell you right now Tonka's losing fields next summer. And they're going to be in the same boat. Wondering where to play so you've got to kind of think about every team that you ' move, who does that displace and then to the next place and I want to make sure everybody has fair treatment and equal... ' Gene Gagner: We're asking for uses of fields that aren't being used in neighborhood parks. Scott Molencamp: And I understand your policy on it, because of the parking. Frankly in Chanhassen Hills and Lake Susan Hills, those neighborhoods, or Sunset Ridge, there's ' S Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 hundreds of kids in those neighborhoods playing CAA so if it came down to the numbers, I think we'd have an awful lot of support ... few that would not be happy... Roeser: Yeah the few that wouldn't be happy would be here. Berg: Parking gets to be a major issue. It's filling the neighborhoods with cars 2 or 3 nights a week is a real concern. Scott Molencamp: You're talking probably 20 cars for 2 teams. Lash: But Sunset Ridge has no parking right now and Curry Farms has about 6 spots and what was the other one? Scott Molencamp: Chan Hills. That has the same. Lash: Yeah, no parking. And the problem that we've had in the past, like with Rice Marsh. Once it gets started in there, it's almost impossible to get out. And as much as it'd be nice to do this for just one year, you know say the program grows more, which it will. Say the referendum doesn't pass. Hopefully that won't happen but if it does, then we're going to be keeping this in the neighborhood parks and it's a problem. I mean the residents are upset and generally when they come in and they ask about their park being developed, they ask things like will there be organized activities in there? Will there be ballfield lights? Will there, and we always say no. That's not our policy. We won't be scheduling that. So it's hard to go back on that. Scott Molencamp: I agree. Rice Marsh especially. It's probably the worst, and I'm probably shooting myself in the foot here. I can't believe they let us use it. I mean that's, with the cul -de -sac being there, that's, in my opinion that's a lot worse than what we have over at Chanhassen Hills because Chanhassen Hills... parking lot and then at least you've got a couple of straight streets to park on. And at Rice Marsh Lake, you've got a cul -de -sac. Once that parking lot fills up, it is dangerous down there. Andrews: I'm concerned about the precedent here again. I know, I'm a soccer fanatic and I know you could line up 20 people to come down here in a day saying we want to play at Lotus. We want to play on this field and that field and where do you draw the line? Who is the team that gets the break and where do you draw the line and say no, your hardship isn't as bad as our hardship. You don't qualify but they do. I'm very concerned. I also have a bias that I'd like to see the referendum pass and one good way to make sure that happens is to make sure there's a need and a perceived need by the citizens of the city. It's almost like we need the crisis to force the action that we really need because scheduling this into the parks, Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 into the neighborhood parks is just going to make a bigger headache. I mean I guarantee you we'll have people here wanting to lynch us if we put these things in these neighborhood parks. ' Scott Molencamp: Well I understand that. I guess our, concern is the number of kids that will, for instance if we have to go to Saturdays. ' Andrews: Every civic organization dealing with kids is going through this same crisis of there's not enough fields, there's not enough people and there's not enough money and they're all asking the question. What do we do? Do we invite everybody that wants to ever play and we have to accommodate them or do we say we have capacity for x number of teams and when those are filled, our program is closed for the season? I guess my feeling right now is that the second option is a wiser one. First of all because most of these organizations are struggling to manage their programs as it is. At least every organization I've ever seen is struggling to handle the growth. But we're talking one year to get this the Chan Elementary School fields and then we can do it the right way and I'm concerned, like Jan said. Once you get them in there on those fields, you grow another 20% the next year, then you can't get out of those fields and then we've got real trouble because we'd have to get out of there. You'd just have to. But I don't know, we're not going to decide tonight I don't think. Scott Molencamp: No, we understand that. I guess I'm just. Andrews: I mean this is a visitor item here, right? ' Lash: Does it have to go, can we decide tonight or does it have to go onto a future agenda? Hoffman: You can just simply uphold your policy. ' Lash: I can tell you Scott we've been approached by Tonka United. The very same thing just a few months ago. I mean it's everybody wants us to let them do that and we've had to ' say no just because of what Jim said. If we said yes to Tonka United, then you would have been second down the line and then you'd be going well how come they're getting the use and we needed them too and then we end up with all these organizations getting pitted against ' each other and we don't want to see that happen either. Scott Molencamp: Yeah, I understand. I just hate to see those park's fields sitting there not ' being used because they're not being used. The only time they're being used is like when the coach gets... ' Andrews: Well, we see that too. 7 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Scott Molencamp: I mean they're some of the nicest fields in Chanhassen. Andrews: I don't argue with that. But you also need to, the citizen has to feel that they can get in their car and go to a place and not be threatened by an organized activity. Running out there in their uniforms and their bats and balls or soccer balls, whatever it might be, and displacing them because that's what will happen. When you have 20 kids run out onto a field, and you're there just throwing a frisbee, you feel like I'm not supposed to be here. There's something here that's scheduled. I should be gone and you move. Lash: And pretty soon there's no place for people to go. Andrews: No place to go. I empathize. I know exactly where you're at but I'm concerned about how do we handle the problem. I mean where do we stop. We don't have the space. We can't create new space without money, and we don't have that either. So I feel like our, the best service to the most people right now I think is to say, let's treat everybody the same and treating everybody the same is saying we're going to uphold the policy. That's my personal feeling. Manders: I guess I'd volunteer the statement that my biggest concern would be parking access. I mean the problem associated with parking. As far as the usage of the fields, I follow where you're coming from. That those fields probably don't get used a lot and to the extent that we need to use them, it forces other issues which I could probably deal with but the parking is the problem and I'm having a problem trying to understand how to resolve. Scott Molencamp: Well I understand. I guess I'm just here showing what we have... Roeser: You know with Bluff Creek coming in a year and with the possibility of Bandimere coming in in another year, I would deny that request. I think we have to, and I really hate to do that. I mean I would make a motion to deny the request. Just because it's necessary. Andrews: I think we can dispose of this now. Meger: I guess I would feel a little more comfortable making a final decision after the referendum vote because I guess I would lean a little bit more towards, if the referendum passes and we see that Bandimere is going to be developed and that we're going to put this other park in and we know that something would be there eventually for people to move into, I would be maybe a little more willing to look at opening it up for a year. 8 ' Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Roeser: But the argument still remains then if you open it up for a year for baseball, then all of a sudden you're going to have soccer people in here. Open it up for a year for us and you could really create a year of problems, I think. Berg: It's extremely frustrating. I'm angry too because I feel like our hands are tied. We're just really caught in the middle here. No one here denies your need. All you've got to do is drive by any of these places at night to know, but we do have the integrity of the ' neighborhood park that we've obviously trying to protect here too. Scott Molencamp: Well I understand. I guess I don't necessarily know what the objective was when the parks were built. They were strictly neighborhood parks and not to be used for night's activities? ' Hoffman: It's interesting to note that the commission no longer constructs modified ballfields with the... infield and backstop in neighborhood parks anymore. We simply leave it a grass ' playfield ... discussing this evening. Options for next year, it's our belief that Bluff Creek" Elementary, the fields for Chanhassen are going to come on line in the spring of 1997. The irrigation, the change order was never pursued at that facility so we're at the mercy of the ' weather. It still needs to be seeded within the next month and then if you get good growing weather next year, it will probably mature and be playable by 1997. If we get terrible weather, we'll be in a predicament of not having ballfields in the spring of 1997. If you look at bringing on line the two Coulter fields... fields just across City Hall for the real little kids and try to... Andrews: That's not your need though. Scott Molencamp: It will help. I mean anything, I mean t -ball next year, this year we had 17 t -ball teams. Next year we'll probably have 19 or 20 so I mean that will help. Hoffman: We know that going into this fall and we can groom those up a little bit and try to help them along but there's also, we pursued Rosemount and they're not interested in allowing the public on the green space to the west of their building. And then I'd like to pursue Mr. Wayne Bongaard at Empak in the large lot that they have to the east of their building. If we ' could just ... an agreement with them. Provide insurance over at Empak and see a split season this fall, we could add that to the soccer practice next year .... as well. Staff will look into ' looking at other alternatives... Andrews: I think the consensus here is to, at best, review this after the referendum because ' then we know where we're going. ' 9 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Scott Molencamp: Thanks. I appreciate that and I guess I'd just like you to know that there's a big need for it. The—and I'm sure you're aware of that. When you're talking about the neighborhoods being. Andrews: I think part of your job is bring us hard numbers of how many kids do you have. How many kids are potentially going to get turned down and where are they from? Are they Chanhassen kids? That's important to us. The second thing is to consider the possible impact of that referendum and is that in your interest to help us with that or not. Scott Molencamp: Oh yeah. I mean me and Jerry had that discussion this spring. Put people on Saturdays and maybe they'll be forced to sign... Andrews: Well, that's what it's all about. We have needs. We're at a crisis point. We don't have the money. Scott Molencamp: I understand. It's just unfortunate the kids... Andrews: That's exactly right. It's the kids that'are hurting and it could be my kid that doesn't get a chance to play and I'll feel it. Scott Molencamp: Well I don't think we'll do that. We won't limit the numbers on the team. It would just be more nights or go Fridays and Saturdays ... I appreciate... anything you can do ... Thank you for your time. Andrews: We're still in visitor presentations here? Any others? Okay, let's move on. Were the Minutes approved yet? Lash: No. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Andrews: Any additions, corrections, or deletions to the July 27th Minutes? Hearing none, is there a motion to approve the Minutes of July 27th? Berg moved, Roeser seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated July 27, 1995 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Andrews: Any additions, corrections or deletions to the August 8th Minutes? Hearing none, is there a motion to approve those Minutes as submitted? 10 I Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 1 Manders moved, Berg seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation ' Commission meeting dated August 8, 1995 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. ' CONCEPTUAL AND PRELIMINARY PUD REZONING THE PROPERTY FROM A2, AGRICULTURAL ESTATE TO PUD, PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT, PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL FOR 94 LOTS AND ONE OUTLOT• SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR 2 ' FOUR UNPf STRUCTURES 1 SIX -UNIT STRUCTURE AND 10 EIGHT UNIT STRUCTURES ON 12.34 ACRES; LOCATED AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF GALPIN BOULEVARD AND HIGHWAY 5, SCENIC ENTERPRISES, INC.; AUTUMN RIDGE 2ND ADDITION. ' Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Andrews: Todd, you're suggesting we credit up to $25,000.00? Hoffman: Correct. Andrews: Are you also suggesting that we have a time constraint on the construction of that trail? Hoffman: ...same time the other public improvements are going in. And then the credit, again it's difficult to track ... as presented here would be in consideration of that construction... ' Lash: So what if it costs way more than that? Hoffman: Not an issue with the applicant. ' Lash: Okay. ' Hoffman: This trail loop, as you can see, it's on the west side of the property. This is the second addition so you will cross the entry road to the school where we enter it is right here and children would cross at this intersection. Down this sidewalk to gain access to home and back and then the trail system would loop around and they would be building from this point, back out to the frontage road and then as a part of the first addition, they'd construct this all the way back to the end of the addition. ' hen when does the loo Lash: And t p et made? g ' 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Hoffman: The loop would be finished with the last piece of acquisition as part of that Howard Dahlgren property to the west. So three pieces of the puzzle were out there. As you tackled the Trotters Ridge piece, the trail to the north. Then this would be Betty O'Shaughnessy ... follow suit and then this trail is constructed, you're about half way there as far as land acquisition and trail construction and then you have the final piece of the puzzle. And then with the property ... the Paul Steiner property. Lash: Any discussion? Anyone want to make a motion? Meger: I say get them in while the getting's good. Hoffman: Bye Jim. Lash: Is that a motion to follow staffs recommendation? Roeser: Oh, is that what she _said? I'll second that. Meger moved, Roeser seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the following conditions of approval regarding parks and trails to the City Council for Autumn Ridge 2nd Addition: 1. Full park dedication fees be collected per city ordinance. 2. Trail fees for Autumn Ridge 2nd Addition and retroactively for Autumn Ridge 1st Addition, be waived in consideration of trail construction. This trail construction to be completed per city specifications within an alignment approved by the city. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Jim Andrews left the meeting at this point and did not vote on this item or the remaining items. ALCOHOL POLICY. CHANHASSEN RECREATION CENTER COMMUNITY ROOM Dawn Beitel presented the staff report on this item. Manders: My question would relate to the idea that you can't separate any of those conference rooms or meeting rooms from the other area. So what does that mean if you have alcohol there, then that. 12 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Hoffman: You'd have to close the gym. Manders: Yeah , you'd have to close everything for that usage? t Hoffman: Yeah. You could usage ... other side, on the school side. But if you were to secure a license there for the serving of liquor, you could have to close the doors. The main three doors as you walk in and where it goes, straight in to those doors and you'd have to close the two gym doors and ... You could not use the aerobics or fitness room at that time. Beitel: And actually if you had the locker rooms available and the open gym people unlock them on the hallway side, then the people who are at the reception would have no access to the restrooms. t Lash: What time does the gym close? What are our hours for that? Beitel: We have open gym times on Saturday evenings, we have a high school open gym scheduling some activities. Berg: With all those restrictions, we're starting to sound a little bit like what we were doing with our church organizations and whatever. Lash: The only way you'd be able to do it would be if you only allowed it after the open gym time was over. So they could do it but not until after 10:00. ' Berg: If we have to start closing down the rec center for a private party, I'm absolutely against that. Lash: No, and I look at a conflict too with this being it's connected to the school and on a school site, it is different than the Chaska Community Center. And the school district has a no alcohol, you know no smoking on any of the school grounds. Not even outside. So I ' look at that as being kind of hard to juggle with it being connected to the school and all of that. ' Berg: Yeah Ron said on the way out tonight that in 5 years this place isn't going to be big enough. I don't think I agree. I don't think it's going to be that long. I don't see where we're going to have a problem, I wouldn't think we're going to have a problem renting that space ' out non - alcoholic. You don't have to have alcohol to have a good time. D 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Roeser: I think for the first year it makes sense too because it sounds so complicated now that wouldn't it simplify, it certainly would simplify your job if it were just straight no alcohol, wouldn't it? Or wouldn't it? Beitel: Even Chaska says that it... Hoffman: Absolutely. Roeser: You know and maybe look at it a year from now but if you're not getting receptions, if you're not getting parties, then maybe there's something wrong and you'd have to go to selling liquor or doing it the other way but I don't know why we shouldn't just try it without booze. Berg: Do you think Chaska would go back to non - alcohol if they had the choice? Did you get that sense? Beitel: I don't know. She wasn't able to give me a percentage of how many people are actually bringing alcohol into it. I think they had to go through a process. They had to get like a temporary permit. It was $250.00. Roeser: Right, and they have to buy insurance. Beitel: Right. Lash: Who? Is it the person booking the room or is it the city? Person booking the room. So if I wanted to have a wedding reception there, I'd have to go through, or do I just book it with you and I say we want to have alcohol and then you go through all of that? Beitel: Then I'd give you a list of the sites that you can buy your alcohol from and you go through them and get your permit and then you have to prove to me that you have a permit. That has to be shown... Lash: So I could go to, say you had MGM on your list. I could go to MGM and buy a keg and just set up a keg there? You don't have to have, like at the community center you have to have a cash bar. Roeser: This sounds to me like they have to have someone who has a liquor license. Then they get the bartenders and everybody from them? You do. That's what it sounds like, which... 14 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: So I couldn't do it ... I wouldn't be able to do. If I wanted to just get a keg and take it over there and, you couldn't do that? ' Beitel: No. Lash: I'd have to hire a bartender and all of that. Hoffman: That's exactly why they stayed away from that. They didn't want that type of activity. They didn't want the softball team, the neighborhood party and have a kegger in there. They wanted to cater to banquets and dances... We are simply posing the question. ' We're not advocating serving alcohol at the recreation center. We are simply posing the question because it was... We will receive requests and we'll be asked the question and we're simply saying well, Park and Recreation staff decided there wasn't going to be alcohol or there was going to be alcohol. That did not cut it so, there's opinions abounding on both sides... Roeser: Is it completely our decision though. Has the Council got anything to do with this? Hoffman: This is on the City Council agenda next week. Roeser: It is? ' Hoffman: Yeah. Roeser: Do they have the final say? Hoffman: Sure, but your decision is not going to be considered... Berg: I think Ron's point is a good one. Let's look at in another year. ' Lash: I would agree with that. Do you want to put it in the form of a motion then? Roeser: That we not allow liquor to be sold in the new recreation center. ' Lash: Brin g p it u for review in a year? Roeser: And review this, the policy a year from now. ' Meger: Second. 1 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Roeser moved, Meger seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that there be no liquor sold at the Chanhassen Recreation Center and review the policy in a year. All voted in favor and the motion carved. DEVELOPMENT OF 1996 PARK ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (CIP). Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Berg: Jerry, do you think it would get enough use, with the lights? Is that still justifiable? Ruegemer: Truthfully, Lake Susan sat empty a lot of the times this summer with the Legion program not being organized this year. They lost at least 3 nights a week right there. They talked about now with the new older program being started up again but that... I know that people were somewhat disgusted with the availability of that field this summer. It did sit empty a lot so that would be the decision of the commission to allocate that money for ballfield lights but just talking to the person that scheduled it this summer, it really wasn't utilized to it's full extent. Lash: But that's a Babe Ruth field, isn't it? Ruegemer: Correct. Lash: And what age bracket is that? 15 and up? Ruegemer: Yeah. 14's can play there too but 14's about it. Lash: So Scott was talking about the possibility of trying to start a. Berg: That metro team that he was talking about. Lash: But not a metro. What I had heard is that they were trying to continue basically what they have now but up to the next age bracket. So it'd still be an in -house league basically. Ruegemer: They're still talking about getting together a 16 year team like a Mickey Mantle type of a league. There's also been talk about a town team being formed. An over 35 league for baseball has also been talked about so, you know if all those organizations come to fruition ... but until, maybe we need to feel the crunch a little bit before that happens. 16 d Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Park an g Lash: What would be involved in, you're going to think I'm crazy but I don't know. What's involved in turning that into just a regular baseball field? Ruegemer: As far as a younger age type of baseball? Lash: Yeah. So I mean to go back to Scott's concern that there's not enough fields for the age brackets as they're growing, and he said especially in the older age bracket. Would that be able to get converted to be used. Roeser: For smaller kids are you talking about? Lash: Well, he was saying like for 11 through what, 14 or something like that. Roeser: No, I wouldn't want to do that. Hoffman: ...that field was built as a baseball field. Lash: No, but I mean what would you have do to convert that field so that could ' usable for that age? Is that too expensive? Is there a lot involved to do that? Hoffman: A big waste of money. Lash: Is it? Okay. I didn't know what all would be involved with it. I'd rather take the money and light another field at Lake Ann because that would help with the problems that he's faced with. He'd be able to have, open up another whole field there that's more usable. I had that in my notes for later on anyway. I think that is a short and long term solution to some of this space crunch. It's a lot cheaper to put in ballfield lights than to try to get a new ballfield and get it up and going. That just doesn't happen. Berg: That sounds like we're at least a year away with Lake Susan. Rueg emer: I think that'd be a safe bet. If you did that. If you wanted to put the money into something else. Until the usage increases again, I think you'd be better served using the ' money in different areas. Lash: Because I think when the kids get to be that age, they get on the high school team, don't they usually? Berg: Yeah, but not all of them can make that high school team. 17 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: Well not all of them but you know, that's the same thing with the metro team though. I mean you have to be pretty good to play on the metro team and you have a lot of kids who don't make that. Well then what happens to those kids and that's where this growth is happening in that age bracket. Plus even if your kid is good, you might not want to make baseball your whole life in the summer and be on that traveling team. That in -house league is nice. I like that. Ruegemer: I can see that in -house program increasing too in numbers. A lot of it isn't high pressure and I think people really enjoy that. Just getting a chance to play and staying local. Berg: Just playing ball for fun. Lash: Yeah I really, really hope that they do expand it the next, because right now we're at the end age wise so if it keeps going, I'll be happy. So I'm willing to do whatever to see that happen. Berg: The next question is, what are the chances or setting aside, let's say $10,000.00 for Lake Ann lights. What do we need to get lights for another field at Lake Ann? What's it going to cost? Hoffman: If you do Lake Ann #6, which would be just to the east of #1 but... slightly lower. So somewhere from $50,000.00 to $70,000.00. Berg: So we're a ways away with those too. Hoffman: You might be able to go a little lower. The quality of the... installed in Chanhassen public facilities are not telephone poles and ... lights. They're a quality system... Depending on how you want to ... knock that down and maybe get it in for the $35,000.00 range for a single... Berg: How close is Field #6, I don't remember, to the batting cage? Hoffman: The batting cages are just north of Field #1 and then Field #6 is. Lash: On the other side of the berm? Hoffman: Yep. Other side of the berm. The fields are laid out in two veins... Lash: And #1 is the one with lights now, isn't it? Or is that #2? 18 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Ruegemer: That's correct. Lash: Why would you choose to light 96 instead of #2? ' Hoffman: #2 is a Little League field. Lash: But that's where he said they were looking at a lot of growth there. Hoffman: It depends on which way you want to go. This is going to offer you, you know there's no growth in adult fields right now so you're stuck here. There's growth in five new ' youth fields out at the Rec Center so this would give you additional capacity for your adult leagues, which they're going to feel the pinch. They're kind of getting, they don't see any new fields coming on line and they've been getting pushed out of Lake Ann. If you can call it that. I think it's just... equalization of the use of the park. Those would be the next two to go. Berg: I was just wondering if CAA would be interested at all in increasing the use of their batting cage by helping us out with some lights. Hoffman: Sure. You could do it in 96 and light those batting cages and you're halfway there. Berg: You've got a nice little complex there too. ' Lash: I'd be more in favor of doing that and trying to conserve money in other areas for next year, if that's what we'd have to do. And keep Lake Susan where we had it. What did you have there before, 10? So if we start throwing some money in there, we might be able to get CAA to kick in, an answer to their problem and maybe the Legion, if they're interested in helping out. There's different organizations who have offered to help. Berg: I could see putting the $10,000.00 there. In a contingency at Lake Ann. Well, it's a start. Lash: But it's not going to happen next year with $10,000.00. I'd like to see it happen next year. ' Hoffman: Okay, to finish up. Todd Hoffman continued with his staff repoit on this item. 19 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: When you're taking your staff comments, where does that put us then? At a final dollar amount. If you did it. Hoffman: Didn't calculate it. I didn't think you'd just take my $6,000.00. Lash: We won't. Just wondering. How about if I just start the top of the staff comments and go down and then we take care of that first and then we'll flip to the back. Is that okay with people? The Chan Rec Center. Discussion on that one. Anybody with a problem with that recommendation? Berg: Is that a contingency for things like equipment? Is that what we're looking at for things like that in the fitness room and that type of thing, or what? What do you anticipate? Hoffman: Fitness room equipment. Lighting. Operation issues. Start using the building and something isn't right and ... You know you look at a contingency and if we set it at $20,000.00 or $30,000.00, you need to approve those percentages. Depending on how the rest of you feel... Lash: What did we have in there before? Hoffman: $20,000.00. Lash: Any other comments or questions about that? How should I do this? Should I ask if we want to just concur with that one or wait until we're all done. Talk them over and then you can just figure it out. Hoffman: Go through your comments and then go through every park and make sure you're all set and then... Lash: Okay, but no one has a problem with that so we'll move on to Herman Field. Anyone with a problem deleting that? Manders: Good idea. Lash: Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. How about Lake Ann, the picnic shelter, we talked about that a little earlier. The consensus I had was that we should wait. Hold off on that for a while. Okay. How about the contingency of $5,000.00 for Lake Ann? Anyone with a problem? Lake Susan. So should we leave that at 10 and then. Manders: Yeah, I'd say leave it at 10. 20 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: Okay. ' Hoffman: ...you don't have any intentions of moving forward, it really clutters the CIP. Lash: So just take it out? Hoffman: Take it out. Lash: Okay, just let's take it out. Stone Creek playground. Manders: The question I had asked there was, how quickly some of these parks get developed or a playground will get put in? It seems to me that there are other ones out there that have been there longer that haven't been developed. I mean is there any kind of priority scale, or how does. There's just normal development. Hoffman: The Commission sets the priority. There's a single neighborhood park that's... Prairie Knoll is one piece of ground that hasn't been developed yet. Manders: But I'm thinking of like Sunset Ridge. Do they have a playground? Lash: Yes. Hoffman: Yeah, they have Phase I, Phase II. ' Manders: They've got all the phases and all these other ones do too? Okay. Lash: I agree with your thinking. I had a question mark by that one too. I guess it's not that I think people should have to wait 5 years before they get them but I think ... it's not even finished yet and if we end up short money, I'd rather see the money go for ballfield lights and hold off another year. I think that's something that would get used more at Lake Ann than here. If we have the money, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. Hoffman: ...number of phone calls from residents there. I mean when you say the rest of the ' neighborhood isn't finished, well it's just about 85% complete ... The site's been acquired for a number of years. The development has been started on the other side ... moved that direction. You've not heard from them but I think you'll hear from them... Manders: So the idea here is that this playground would go in next year then? Hoffman: Correct. 1 21 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Meger: Have we heard anything from the folks around Prairie Knoll? Hoffman: Once in a while we see the people who live in the cul -de -sac where the ... original concept plans. They were involved in... Lash: Well I'm okay with leaving it in there as long as we have enough money to do the other things that we want. If we see a money crunch, that would be the first thing that I'd take out. Roeser: If it's 80% done now, by next spring it will be 90% done. I think that should stay. Lash: Okay. Let's flip over then to each park. So if you have comments on any of these, as I call them out, just jump in. I won't go down the seating. Bandimere Community Park. Obviously we're on hold with that, right? Bandimere Heights Park. I looked at that $8,000.00 in '98 as, I just think we should take it out because once the big park starts getting in there, isn't that going to be incorporated? Isn't it all going to run together? It's still going to be separate? Okay. Hoffman: And in regards to the topography, if you really are... Lash: Bluff Creek Park. Carver Beach Park. Carver Beach Playground. Chanhassen Estates Mini Park. I was just kind of wondering why we're putting those little spring animals in there. Is that ever used? Hoffman: Well this is brand new. It's just going in. Lash: That's the little one by McDonald's, right? Hoffman: Yes. The structure's just going in and the commission made the commitment, based I believe on a visitor presentation a couple of years ago, to do something in there. We purchased the piece of play equipment... left extra room for additional spring animals. The piece of equipment was purchased at Nationals... so I asked for a proposal to reconfigure... to meet that ADA so at the last meeting I... Lash: Okay. Chanhassen Hills. Hoffman: Parking lot. 25 cars. Lash: Chan Pond Park. 22 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Roeser: I'd just like them to change the name of that park back there to Kerber Pond Park but other than that, no problem. That property was surrounded by Kerber farms for 150 years and they go and change it to Chanhassen Pond Park. I couldn't understand that guys. Who did it? Hoffman: I didn't do it. Lash: I don't think I did. Did I do it? I don't think I did. Hoffman: We can look at the Minutes but you can change it back. Lash: Okay, the Chan Rec Center, I think we already took care of that, right? Hoffman: Which one are you at... Lash: 40? 35? 30? Anyone. Hoffman: I'm comfortable with 30. Lash: Okay, 30. Roeser: 30. Lash: If you're comfortable, that's what counts. Okay. How about City Center Park. They show just nothing. Hoffman: No, the HRA /Council is still stuck in the mud over the HRA /Council issues and that's one of them... Lash: How about the hockey rinks, they don't need anything? Or the warming house. Hoffman: They certainly do but we're not going to do it... Lash: Okay. Curry Farms. Roeser: You're still going to run them this year aren't you? Hoffman: Yes. 23 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: Curry Farms Park. This is the one that's sinking, right? ...So Galpin Boulevard. Is that Stockdale? Hoffman: Stockdale. Lash: Okay. I just have to make sure I'm on the right one. Greenwood Shores. Herman Field. And we're going to scratch that $22,000.00, right? Okay. Lake Ann Park. We're going to put in a contingency there of $5,000.00. Let's, can we talk lights? Ruegemer: Yeah, let's talk some lights. Roeser: Let's talk picnic shelter first. Should we cross that off? Lash: Sure. Well there's ballfield lights right there Roeser: Let's just move it to - lights. We're up to $60,000.00 with lights if we take the 10 from Lake Susan, Lash: So that's one field right there. Or half of one. Half of two. And then if we can get CAA to kick in half. Hoffman: Field #6 and the batting cages. I think you'd get some ... from the Athletic Association. Berg: That could be a nice phone call tomorrow, couldn't it. Lash: Okay, so what should we put in there to accomplish that? How much do you think we can tap them for? Reasonably. Hoffman: Well if we get 60... Ruegemer: They're campaigning right now. Fund raising right now for that so. Manders: For lights out there you mean? Ruegemer: Yes. Lash: So what do you think they could cough up, $20,000.00? 24 I k d Rec Commission Meeting Par an g - August 22, 1995 Hoffman: We could come up with a proposal ... and let them know that we want to do #6 and the batting cages. This is where we're at. If you want to do the other one, this is where we're at. They can advertise that through December -January of this year and then lock in on a project... Lash: You think they can lit by spring for the season next year? Hoffman: Sure. ' Lash: That'd make your life easier, wouldn't it Jerry? Ruegemer: Yeah, it would help. You bet. Lash: So how much are you willing to kick in? Put Jerry down for $15,000.00. Okay, so we're going to plunk 60? Should we say that? Okay. Anything else for Lake Ann? Hoffman: Ask the staff members ... with their operations. Ruegemer: Yeah. Potentially a furnace for the shelter. Concession building. If the commission was aware of it last year. This would be the last couple months with the wet conditions that are down there, we did have some frost ... in the concession area itself. Last ' winter, four ... heaters were put in there all winter to help... temperature so everything wouldn't freeze up in there. You know the past couple of years you've got doors heaving to the point where they can even be opened and some slight frost damage. Pipes bursting. That type of r thing. We were tentatively looking at maybe adding some type of a furnace of some kind along with heat ducts or some ... with the ventilation system that is there so potentially additional duct work would hardly have to be added but ... looking at some type of a small ' type ... winter months. Lash: Are you talking about gas? Hoffman: Gas furnace. Lash: Do you have gas going there? 1 Ruegemer: It's all electrical last year. Hoffman: Merit Heating and Cooling... Meger: How much would that cost? ' 25 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Hoffman: Probably not CIP. I believe we could take that out of maintenance... Ruegemer: ...big ticket items, we're pretty well... reallocate some money to maybe an additional paddleboat that's a little bit higher quality potentially. We've had a lot of damage this year. A lot of breakdowns with the boats that have been out there and I think the one paddleboat's been out of the water more than it's been in this summer so. And there's great use out there and I think if we got some little bit higher quality maybe or they could stand a little bit more the industrial kind of strength, then maybe we'd be in better shape but. I don't have any figures in front of me... Lash: Do you think it's just the quality isn't high enough or do you think they just take too much of a severe beating because they're rental? Ruegemer: Oh yeah. I think they're used heavily out there and ... this is our third summer now and potentially we might need to replace the fleet if you will out there. Lash: One a year? How many do we have? Ruegemer: There's 4 of them. Lash: Would we just be able to get into a cycle of replacing one a year? Ruegemer: You bet. Lash: Should we pop a little bit in there for a new paddleboat? Ruegemer: Yeah. Berg: Over and above the $2,500.00 that we have in there now? Oh that was last year. Never mind. Lash: Well we just talked about putting in a $5,000.00 contingency so should we put in $2,500.00 for a paddleboat? Is that an adequate amount do you think? Roeser: Why not give it 2? Lash: Okay. 26 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Ruegemer: Replace two of them, sure. That'd be great. I don't know if the commission's... as far as getting any type of a small... sailboat of any kind or if the commission's heard any comments regarding that. Paddleboats are really popular up there. ' Manders: Are there canoes out there all private or those are public? Ruegemer: There's 3 rental canoes ... so that's an additional revenue for us too. Lash: In the report, in the yearly report I was kind, I guess I was kind of disappointed in the revenues generated from rentals and concessions down there. I mean there was some days it t was nothing. I looked at it and I thought I bet we're not ever breaking even on what we're having to pay staff to be there compared with what we're taking back in revenues. Ruegemer: Overall I think we're right in line really with the past two years so. Obviously if you added up everything... Lash: Well Ron, do you want to go for 2? I don't care. 2 would be max for me. ' Roeser: I think 2 would be fine. Now we're talking like $5,000.00? - Ruegemer: Is the 2 above and beyond the contingency? ' Lash: Right. ' Ruegemer: Everything else is pretty well okay with... Lash: Okay. Anything else for Lake Ann? Okay, Lake Susan. We just scratched the. ' Roeser: We're scratching the 10 there. ' Lash: Right. Anything else that anyone can think of for Lake Susan that we need? Okay, Meadow Green Park. We have $2,000.00 for trees. What about, I think I read in the Minutes there was talk about the parking lot. Is it too little and you're thinking of expanding? ' No? Okay. Minnewashta Boulevard. What do you think for that $7,000.00 is, what are we going to get for that? You've got initial development. Is that just grading and seeding? ' Hoffman: Parking lot, grading, seeding. Roeser: Getting rid of the barn house, is that included? ' 27 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Hoffman: That will be gone... Berg: Is that house coming down too? Hoffman: Yes. They moved out. Lash: Can I throw out some ideas that I had for usages of that? And I have no idea what all is involved money wise and getting the thing up to speed but say we ended up, I mean we could use it for concessions out there. We could use it, if we ended up with the beach section and I know that still hasn't been decided yet but if we did and wanted to do that at Lake Ann and have canoes or paddleboats, that could be a rental place. It could be used as a meeting space. It could be used for Scouts. We now sound like a broken record but I mean I look at the Scouts right away. I mean that's such a remote area that people who want some of those kind of things, it's got a kitchen facility. It's got a lot of things out there that it could be used for. Roeser: I think if you ever tried to rent canoes and stuff, people would rise up in revolution on that little beach. But I think there might be some use for that round place yet. Lash: It's so remote. Even concessions. Even if you just have vending machines and stuff in it. Meger: It seems like an awful lot of money though to me to upgrade that round house and keep it up to put vending machines in because it is remote. Roeser: Well let's just leave it stand for a year and see what happens. Lash: And extension for the senior center. I mean I just look at it as a possible meeting area for different groups. Berg: Is there any chance that we would ever have, I realize it's across from the lake, this is stupid perhaps, any kind of flooded area. Hockey and /or pond or just skating area that that could be used as a warming house for. The topography of the land won't let us do that? Manders: That type of thing would make the most kind of sense because you're going to have destination type usage. You have to go out to it for some other event, then it's less likely to be used. Hoffman: ...walk across the street. 28 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Berg: Yeah I thought of that too. The road bothers me a little bit in the winter time. Lash: I don't think it's that busy though. I even looked at it as someday possible branch for the library. The library is always looking to expand. Roeser: I don't think it's big enough for that. Lash: No, I don't mean for the whole library but. Roeser: No, I know even for a branch. It'd be a very small branch. Lash: ...well I mean that's kind of the thought I had. Well anyway, okay. Do we want to put in money right away for playground equipment too or is that jumping the gun? Hoffman: Jumping the gun. Lash: Okay. Well I'm anxious to get that one done. Hoffman: You're going to put a couple hundred thousand, $140,000.00 in road construction... $400,000.00 in the first couple of years. Lash: Well way back in the reserve fund, on the last page, there's land development, west Lake Minnetonka is $25,000.00. So is that on top of this $70,000.00 that we have? The last thing. Hoffman: No, that was part of the 70. Lash: So that's part of the 70? Hoffman: Yep. Lash: Okay. So we should scratch that from this list? Hoffman: ...land acquisition west of Lake Minnewashta and... Lash: Okay. Minnewashta Heights Park. North Lotus Lake Park. Pheasant Hills Park. Power Hill Park. Anyone? Manders: Not me. 29 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Hoffman: Drainage... Lash: And this year we put in a play area and a basketball court. Hoffman: Correct. Berg: And a parking area. Lash: Well the parking was there technically last year. Hoffman: One thing to say for it. We've had quite a bit of rain... referencing that low area. Manders: I'm not in favor of...that stuff. Berg: It's a fine play area. They can take a bat and a ball down there or a soccer ball. It's fine. - Lash: So we'll leave it the -way it is. Roeser: That's what Todd's going to tell them. Park and Rec doesn't want to do anything. Berg: Who's number is published? Lash: Okay, Prairie Knoll Park. Meger: When are we going to do it? Roeser: Where is that? Lash: I don't even know if we ever should do that. Meger: Can we go visit this? Lash: We did..when we were on that trail and he said it's right on the other side of those houses. Right when we went down into the trail into Lake Susan. It's back over there. I mean it's so small. It services such a little, tiny area it just seems like to me that would be Ron's wild flower area. Couple of benches and a sign. There's nothing there right now is there Todd? Hoffman: Nope, nothing there. 30 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: Is it even mowed? Hoffman: No. Lash: So is it an eyesore do you think for them? Hoffman: Well it's prairie grass. Lash: Well some people might consider that an eyesore. Hoffman: You drove right by it tonight. We came out of the Lake Susan neighborhood. You've got Powers right here and then if you went straight ahead to Powers, there's a large lot yet to be developed right here. If you know the, what are these called Jasper Townhomes... fill this whole thing in. The other side is right here so there's a cul -de -sac here and there's this road winding through here and all these back lots butt up into this open space. There's a trail which is going to come through here and then act as part of a land trail and then the plan was to put a piece of play equipment right there. The tree group this spring planted three seedlings out in this open prairie grass, and really the concept here, at least in my thought process is that this was just an excellent buffer for all these back yards you know from Powers Boulevard. So you let these trees grow up and put a trail through there and if you ever get any real push for any other additional development, you just review those as they come in. Not a big focus there. Neighborhood focus. People in this neighborhood, when they want to go recreate, they head out on the trail and they go right to Lake Susan. It's not a big push for city use. Lash: Any kind of a playground anymore is at least $25,000.00 and to stick that in there seems like a waste. Berg: Yeah. It's going to be so age specific when they've got Lake Susan not that far away with every age that can be covered. Lash: If they're not in here asking for it right now, I guess to me they don't really care so. Should we just scratch that and if anybody ever calls you just say well, there's really not any plan for it and see what happens? Hoffman: Okay. Lash: Rice Marsh Lake. Anything? This picnic shelter thing has been in here forever and I just can't imagine that we're ever going to do that down there. 31 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Hoffman: To replace the one that's there? Lash: Yeah. Hoffman: Should we take it down... Lash: Is anybody really motivated to spend, I mean how much does it cost to put one of those things in, $50,000.00? Hoffman: Probably not for that thing. We had $7,000.00. Roeser: You've got $7,000.00 here. Lash: For a picnic shelter? Berg: It's a lean to. Lash: We're not putting them in any other neighborhood parks so I just don't see. Hoffman: You can take it out and when we take it down, you can listen to the neighbors. Roeser: Yeah, if you tear it down, you might hear something and didn't replace it, from that neighborhood. I think you would hear about it. Lash: I mean is it dangerous now or is it? Hoffman: No, it's old and it frost heaves and... Ruegemer: I had that conversation too with the Lions specifically about that shelter and I think they had forgotten about it. I just had that conversation about a month and a half ago so I think if you approach the Lions, they would take care of that for you. Lash: Okay. So we could take it out but see if we can get them to take it. Roeser: Yeah, that's one of the first ones they did. Lash: I think if I lived there I'd be much more interested in seeing, having a nice playground structure. Having the basketball. Having decent parking and some of those kind of things than a little rinky dink shelter. 32 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Hoffman: ...shelters. We get a lot of requests for shade in parks. Lash: Well that's because the trees aren't. They haven't grown yet. In a few years. Roeser: Next year it will be real cloudy and drizzly. Lash: South Lotus Lake Park. Did I hear something about curbing? Hoffman: No. Lash: I thought I had heard that. Hoffman: That's been taken out of there. Lash: Okay. Sunset Ridge Park. Stone Creek Parkland. That's the one where we're talking about putting in the $25,000.00 for playground, right? Roeser: You're still going to do it, right? Berg: Yeah. Lash: If we have the money again, we should. Okay. Other improvements. Miscellaneous kind of things. I put down money for tables and benches. We always need ... and signage. Won't we need some signage for some of these newer. Well even just Stone Creek and the Minnewashta one. Berg: Parkview at Lake Ann. Beitel: I don't know if Sunset Ridge has one either. Hoffman: No place to put it. Beitel: People don't know that that's the name of that park down there. Hoffman: No, they don't. We could put a temporary one in. Lash: How about right by the trail? Berg: How about 40 foot neon? 33 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: You are here. Berg: You are here. Sunset Ridge. Lash: How about, are we sitting okay with bird houses and bat houses and all that stuff? Hoffman: ...looking for cash but. Lash: Remember last year Jerry we kind of talked about the possibility of over the winter staff making one of those water wars things and just doing it ourselves. Ruegemer: That never happened unfortunately but I don't know if there was money allocated for that. Lash: No there wasn't but this would be the time to do it if we wanted to. Ruegemer: If the commission has interest, I don't think there'd be a problem with a few hundred dollars to do that. Berg: And we could pay for in 3 years just renting it to St. Hubert's. Lash: Oh we'd pay for it in 1 or 2 years just running it ourselves. Ruegemer: Yeah, I do have a contact... design work for the water wars. Lash: So do you think that would be. Ruegemer: If that's something that the commission has interest in. It doesn't cost anything to get the water wars game here so ... it's up to the commission. Roeser: What you're saying is we really don't need to build one though. Ruegemer: I don't think we need to. Lash: Is it more of a hassle than ... Okay, so more hassle than it's worth. Okay. Anybody else? Anything? That's the time to plunk it in. Meger: I wish I knew because I'm sure they'll want some money for Bluff Creek but I don't know what. 34 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: Well, that could go into the reserve. Ma Berg: be we should explore the idea of household pools to be used by the neighborhood Y on a sort of a ... basis. Jim and I were thinking we could both use a pool in our back yard. Roeser: Are you talking about having a traveling pool? ' Berg: And also have the city pay for it. ' Manders: One of these portable units that you back into your driveway. Lash: Okay. Where are we now? The fund reserves. Should we scratch the Lake Minnewashta. The City Center, I was thinking, since we've had no movement in this anyway, but $8,000.00 isn't even, $8,000.00 at the time we thought 16. That was like half but now wouldn't we have to up it to 12 if we were going to have it be. half. Hoffman: Play equipment, yes. Lash: So can we up that to 12. Okay. And can we scratch the TH 101 trail now? That $20,000.00. According to the paper or the. ' Hoffman: We can scratch it unless anything falls apart and then we'll put it back in. Should we scratch the referendum of TH 101 and go for the safe... ' Lash: Okay, the new school site furnishing we just, that was what we upped, wasn't it? No? Hoffman: Fund reserves. 1 Lash: Oh, this is different. t Hoffman: Yeah, you can tag that right into contingency... Lash: Okay. And can we take out the Stockdale reserve? ' Hoffman. • That's not a done deal. Lash: Okay, we'll leave that in. Then we... Hoffman: ...$130,000.00. 5 acres times 20. $26,000.00. That's just on reserve... 35 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Meger: So can we put some reserve money in for Bluff Creek preservation? Hoffman: Yeah. There's two ways of doing that. It can be allocated in contingency and then approve it later on when you move it from reserve into budget... Lash: So can we put that in? Can't we just write that in here on Bluff Creek? Hoffman: You bet. Lash: So what would be a nice number to put in there? Hoffman: $100,000.00. Lash: Is that enough for you Jane? Meger: Yeah, thanks. Manders: What are you gaing to do with that? Hoffman: ...in direct harmony with what you're trying to do, land acquisition in the Bluff Creek corridor. Trail development. There's a lot of different issues... City staff is also looking at recommending through the Bluff Creek task force at allocating the SWMP, Surface Water Management Program dollars for land acquisition so ... relationship with the SWMP committee... Berg: That was my question. Is anybody else bringing money to the table besides Park and Rec? Hoffman: You bet. You've got... traditionally the Park and Rec Commission was the holder of property in the city and that's part of the equation but we've not had the expertise in the staff to go ahead and do water quality, etc, etc... coordinator in that program on line. They come in. The pond you saw this evening, that will ... They give the majority of the funds. We just pay for our trail.. Lash: Okay. Any other items for the CIP? Berg: Are we updating Stockdale? Did I miss that? Are we leaving it at 50 or are we putting more into that? Lash: He said to up that to. 36 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Berg: 130? Hoffman: $130,000.00. ' Lash: So how do you think this is going to all shake down? Okay? Hoffman: Right now you're at $211,500.00 in the '96 CIP and under other improvements, ' $10,000.00 and contingencies... The reserve will change to $442,000.00 down from $558,000.00. ' Berg: And that reserve represents what percentage of the income that we can anticipate? I mean don't we still have income that we can, that would be coming. Hoffman: A large portion of the reserves are set aside ... The cash balance is always a moving target. Your fund reserves, cash in the bank plus your CIP should equal out ... in essence your general fund reserves, the $200,000.00 is only a bond and the commission and City Council and the City Manager and myself ...so your reserve will go up to $300,000.00, $400,000.00, $500,000.00 based on income and how much you'd have assigned to that particular year. ' We've done over $500,000.00 in 1995 in park and trail fees... That's the reason the CIP's... Berg: I don't know if anybody's ever asked this question, at this spot anyway. Can you project ' out with any kind of accuracy to when we hit the wall? Hoffman: Sure. ' Berg: When is the golden cap going to go away? When do we hit the point with development where we can't count on this kind of reserve building every year? Hoffman: I should correct my answer. We can calculate what the, based on development and zoning, what the estimated total income will be. When that will show up ... So things are out there booming right now but if everything slows down... Basically we're halfway done with our development and essentially that's where, we talked about establishing our fees and our trail fees based on what the actual plan is for the city and then how much houses, how many houses and how many industrial acres of land you have left. If you take $10 million to get to where we want to be, we should decide what percentage of that $10 million is the burden of the existing residents and how much should be assigned to new, and then divide, ' take that calculation and assign... It doesn't work that way in the real world based on park and trail fees but that's what you're trying to move forward. You're trying to pay for your park system with these park and trail fees. You're up to $1,200.00 a home at the present time. Up ' from about $600.00 a house 5, 6, 7 years ago ... But obviously the City Council... 37 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: If we, this is the time too we're supposed to be talking about the, I know it's later in the agenda but it's the parking permit thing and the impact that would have on this budget, right? Do we need to, is that anything we need to talk about while we're on this or is that? Hoffman: Not on the CIP budget. That's a different budget. Lash: Okay. Manders: I have a question, and I don't know if it applies here or if it's under maintenance but general trail, I don't know if it's upkeep maintenance. Expansion. I know expansion is maybe a whole different issue but how does that fit in? Is that like a maintenance issue? Hoffman: Maintenance issue. If you have an issue with a trail, I can tell you... The other trails are being, the one inbetween Lake Ann and Greenwood Shores, it was patched and is waiting for an overlay right now. Excuse me, a sealcoating right now. And all the trails, as far as maintenance are now being assigned to the street renovation and the annual repair programs. Manders: Okay. So there's funding in place to deal with it? Hoffman: There's funding in place set aside each year for... Lash: So you have the total of 211? Is that, can we live with that? I don't know what we were shooting for. Hoffman: 175. Lash: Oh. Hoffman: We can live with that. You're not sure if you're going to spend it all... Lash: But we didn't put in any amount for tables, benches, signage, that kind of thing. Hoffman: No. We bought 46 new tables this year so we're in an off cycle year on picnic tables... Lash: So you don't think we're going to need much? Hoffman: Not picnic tables, no. 38 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: Can you give us some, I don't have a clue what to... Hoffman: Manders: Did the Scout project get used this year? Hoffman: No. Manders: Any inquiries? Hoffman: None. Lash: So we don't need recycling containers or benches or tables? Hoffman: No. Lash: Okay. So we're at $1,500.00 there. Berg: I don't see a lot of fat there though. Lash: No. By far the majority of the parks have nothing so. Berg: And the big hit obviously is lighting. Lash: Okay, let's move on to program reports. Hoffman: I need a motion... Lash: Okay. Is there a motion to approve this and send it on to City Council? Roeser: So moved. Lash: Second? Meger: Second. Roeser moved, Meger seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council approve the Development of the 1996 Park Acquisition and Development Capital Improvements Program (CIP) as discussed. All voted in favor and the motion carried. 39 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 PROGRAM REPORTS: A. SEPTEMBERFEST. Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item and asked if there were any questions Berg: What are we doing? Ruegemer: We're going to be doing the prize board again. Lash: The trivia you mean? Or not. Wasn't that what we did last year? Berg: Yeah. Ruegemer: ...trivia from last year. I'm not sure if Berg: I think we're 3 weeks away from a referendum. We'd better have something Lash: I think we have to have major PR going on. Ruegemer: Do you just want to have like a table with information type of a table? Is that what you're looking at? To have all of the promotional or that type of, or the referendum information on it? Manders: I think at a minimum we need to be available for that type of question. Hoffman: The ... park task force will be there. They're having a meeting this Thursday. The October 17th date is in question for a variety of reasons, but nevertheless the referendum will be moving forward here at some point. So they'll be there. Berg: That's a good idea to have them there. Lash: I always thing visual things are helpful. You know if you had a big city map spread out on a table with things color coded. Current parks. Future parks. That kind of stuff so people can look at it. Hoffman: And that will give people a reason to approach you... Lash: But I'm willing, if you're having a prize board, I'm willing to work on that too. 40 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Berg: Ditto. Lash: I think I suggested this last year but, and now it's too late if you already have fliers printed up but I know you have the biggest pumpkin contest. I thought it'd be fun if you had a carving, kind of like the sand castle contest only pumpkin carving. Ruegemer: It's never too late Jan... Lash: Oh I thought you said it was going in. Ruegemer: Well it's going in, right but we do everything in -house so we can... Lash: I just thought that'd be a fun thing to do and have kids one, have a family one or something you know so if they wanted to look into that, I thought that'd be fun. And then I know you have this theme is really the Septemberfest so this probably isn't in with the theme of the things but I went up to St. John's, the festival over the weekend and they had that Sumo wrestling, have you seen that anyone? Ruegemer: Yeah. Lash: I mean that was just so funny. It really had the attention going. So sometime I'd like to see that. Roeser: No, St. Hubert's. Not St. John's. Lash: Yeah, you know what I mean. That one catholic church. Roeser: One of those Saints, yeah. Lash: St. Hubert's, yeah. I don't go there. Anyway, it was really an attention getter and I think people thought it was really fun. It was really funny and to have, they had scheduled meets with certain notorious people from the church. i Ruegemer: I know... Lash: I know that was, I went up there specifically to see that. It was Ann O'Neill and Lisa Notermann ... so it really was a sight to see. I don't mean them necessarily but they were funny. But this whole thing was just a stitch so even for 4th of July or for something like ' that, it was so funny. 41 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 1 Ruegemer: We thought about that too before this obviously but it gets a little... Lash: Anyway, it was very funny. I just thought it'd be fun. Okay, that's it for me. Anybody else? B. SUMMER DISCOVERY PLAYGROUND. Dawn Beitel presented the staff report on this item and asked if the commission had any comments. Berg: Was there any feedback from places where you cut back from 2 times a week to 1, like at Meadow Green? Beitel: There wasn't. There wasn't. What we did is we added on at Pheasant Hills this year ' and we had a real nice showing there for the Brst year. I think we had 21 or 22 kids signed up. You know if I heard ... it would be something that I would try to add back or if we wanted to ... other neighborhood parks. i Berg: That's got to be a top priority. Beitel: Herman Field even had a few more kids this year too so its growing. Berg: Well I don't know. I never hear anything but good things from my neighbors. They , just love it. Manders: What age bracket is this? Beitel: Ages 4 to 11. And this year we also ... before we had the Junior Leaders or the ' Playground Leaders to train in the volunteer program and that went really well also. Berg: What age were they? ' Beitel: They were ages 12 to 15. Lash: Any other comments? Questions? Okay, thanks Dawn. C. LAKE ANN PARK, PARKING PERMITS. Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item. 42 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Berg: What are some of those big days? When you broke it down by days on page 2. Like the 5th and the 15th of June, etc. What was going on those days that it went up so high? Ruegemer: I would imagine a lot of it would be picnics... more weekend. Erik Donnely: The bigger Y Y h bi er da s usually are Mondays... Friday and Saturday and Sunday. These amounts are by receipt. Not by day. Berg: Oh, okay. So that's three days. I got you. Do you think a lot of those are non- , residents? Erik Donnely: Judging on the way the distribution of the actual passes, probably... majority are residents. Berg: Are residents, okay. Hoffman: The calculations in the past have always shown that, he's got it in your report. It's back a ways. $19,000.00... of that was residential. $3,700.00 was non. ' Berg: So if we were thinking, or try to do something like Jim suggested a year ago with the passes for residents and purchasing of stickers for non - residents, we're not talking about a large amount of income at all? Hoffman: ... ' Lash: I think in reading the Minutes from the City Council, that was one of their suggestions too and I didn't look at that as a solution because you're not getting rid of the gate keeper then. You know the gate keeper's going to have to sit there but just only for non - residents. Manders: Yeah, they'd be more bored yet. Berg: It certainly sn't cost effective. Y Lash: No. Roeser: Yeah, I think the gate thing too, so many times you go out there and there's someone there. And then you go out on other days and there's no one there. It's really kind of. 1 ' 43 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Berg: Well it's real hap hazard. The day my daughter and I came out to talk to you and your group, we got to the gate and he waved us through. Had no idea who I was or what I was doing there. Hoffman: It's fun when they wave at the Director but. Roeser: Your picture's in the booth though I think. Hoffman: The program is by no means perfect and towards the end of the year, 1 out of 10 cars pays ... so I will certainly admit that. Roeser: Yeah, it's hard to schedule somebody there all the time, right? I mean if people don't show up or call in sick...I think the park patrol idea is fine. Probably a better idea. Having someone wandering around out in the park. Looking somewhat official would be... Berg: The problem is now with people up in the woods and spending the night and whatever Will a roving officer help that at all? Hoffman: I'm not going to send them ... send a park ranger there from 11:00 until 8:00 unless they're shifts... patrol the usage of the park ... It's your call. If you look, the commission made a motion last year to abandon this gate program but that came late so the Council didn't feel comfortable with that so this year we have time ... City Council as a part of your budget. You also have the option in 1996, the road will be going through smack dab in the center of that gate house so you're either going to have to rebuild it. Make a commitment to that program or abandon the gate house. Berg: It might be a spot to move the round house. Lash: So we're going to try for it again this year? Meger: Part of me says we should follow through but part of me wants to say that same thing and say let's see what happens with the referendum. I don't know if we can use that as a selling point of the referendum too you know with, that this is one of the ways that we get money to purchase new land and upgrade but we hear you that you don't feel that you should have to pay to use your park but we have a need there for more money. Manders: Just one other thing that comes to mind is, couple of visitor presentations on park fees to get in there and kind of in relation to I think it was Lotus Lake. I don't know why the parks down there and being able to use that beach area and the beach area out there and so I 44 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 kind of shake those around a little bit and you wonder if it isn't limiting some people or usage ' of the park. I don't know. Hoffman: ...$17,000.00 in gross revenues. $6,000.00 in employee costs. You've got to add t at least $2,000.00 to $3,000.00 in administration costs above and beyond that. $1,000.00 in printing costs ... net revenue down to about... i Manders: Yeah. I move that we discontinue park fees at Lake Ann. Hoffman: ...discontinue that ... gate attendant can file it and ... save the city time and money if that's the direction you want to go... Lash: Well we're going to have to have this park ranger so. Hoffman: Whether that park ranger... t Meger: I will second your motion Jim. Lash: Any further discussion? - Berg: I just think I agree. They've paid for it already. It's a jewel and they should be able to get in. Anybody should be able to get in and I think there are people that aren't able to for one reason or another. Because of the gate fee. Manders moved, Meger seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to discontinue charging an enti-ance fee for Lake Ann Park. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Hoffman: Clarification... Lash: That we will be discontinuing the parking fee at Lake Ann. Discontinuing the gate keeper but in place we'd be having park patrol. Berg: During normal park hours. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: A. CHA NHASSEN RECREATION CENTER ' Beitel: How did you like the recreation center tonight? ' 45 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: Loved it. Beitel: Nothing's really changed that much since your last visit. We're still waiting for quite a bit of furniture. Lobby area furniture is due to come in this week. There is strength equipment for the fitness room is going to be in the end of this week or early next week. We've got people coming in ... appliances ... There's a lot of action occurring... open day September 5th. Lash: Is that the grand opening? Beitel: That is the first open day. We're not going to be doing a grand opening celebration per se until things are all in line and in order and going smoothly... school district is following along. They agree and I talked to Kathy Gallagher and she would like to try to do some type of a joint grand opening celebration but she would also like to wait a few months until things are running smoothly with the school as well. Lash: Say something like October or something like that maybe? Beitel: Late fall. But the official first day of opening is September 5th and during the week and the following week, the fitness room and the open gym times will be free. And aerobic classes and fitness room and open gym time will be charged a fee on a punch card basis to get in September 25th. Reservations for the community room, I'm already getting people calling in getting the price sheet which is due to go out this week. But I imagine we'll be having reservations beginning that first week that we open ... I've had a request already for one, a meeting next week. It's people are hearing a lot. They're really curious. I'm very anxious as well and I'm sure the general public is very anxious to get that first ... and just figure out what all is in there. Lash: When will that be done? Are you doing like a flier or something? Beitel: Yes, the promotional brochure. It's done. We're going to be stuffing envelopes and getting that mailed out. Meger: What's the cost again to walk in and use the open gym? Beitel: The open gym, we have a punch card system. You can buy either 10, 20 or 40 punch card. If you buy a 10 punch card, each punch is worth $1.50. If you buy a 20 punch card, it's worth $1.40. And then the 40 punch card, they're a $1.30. So it pays to buy a punch card with more punches and it costs, one punch to go into the fitness room. One punch for an open gym and two punches for an aerobics class and that punch card can be 46 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 passed around within your family. So the aerobics class will cost you anywhere from $2.50... Lash: So an aerobics class would be $2.60, is that what you just said? Beitel: $2.60 for a 40 punch card. $2.60 a class, which is right in line with other places. How much they charge for a per class basis. Meger: If you do 2 punches for aerobics, then you can walk into open gym afterwards or is that another punch? Beitel: It's another punch. Lash: So who would punch it? Beitel: The receptionist, right when you walk in. Lash: But if you just walked across the hall. ' Hoffman: They'd get you. Beitel: That's... honesty type of thing. Everyone will stop at the desk or we will flag them, what are you planning on doing this evening and we'll punch it out. That way you have the flexibility of going to those things when you want to, even if you're not. You don't have to sign up specifically for aerobics... You can go to a 5:30 in the morning one on Monday and you can go at 6:00 in the evening the next day. Lash: That's good. That's a good idea. Hoffman: We'll hold a public questionnaire as to how they like the punch cards... We're considering the debit system where you simply have an account at the Chanhassen Recreation Center and when you walk in ... credit it on your account, right on the screen... The open house type attitude for the first couple of weeks, both for the benefit of the public and for the... administration of the building. There will be a lot of systems to bring up on line and so as we're training and setting the programs for those first few weeks, we can simply say welcome to the Chanhassen Recreation Center. Make yourselves at home... programming our computers ' and getting our systems up on line... Lash: I really like that idea because you know I've signed up for aerobic classes before and it will be two nights a week. Well one of the nights works out fine and then it turns out maybe one of the other nights doesn't or something. It's a hassle and so you end up not signing up. 47 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Hoffman: Two classes before work, at noon or after work. There's a wide selection. Lash: Anything else that you have? Beitel: Todd mentioned in his Director's Report, which is the next thing, talking about the school is doing a parent student night on August 30th and we will open up our area of the building for people to ... curiosity, what's on the other side of the door. So we will be, if anyone's interested in coming in and just being a greeter. We'll probably have... refreshments set up where people can just have a chance to look through the building, at whatever stage it's at. Lash: What time is that? Beitel: It's from 4:00 to 7:00. Lash: Okay. Beitel: And we're currently still waiting on our computer system. We're going to be doing some training tomorrow ... Did Todd show you the fancy screen? Commission: No. Beitel: It's the niftiest thing. It's a push button screen that just comes down. Very high tech. Hoffman: Right out of the ceiling. Beitel: We've gone through... there are minor things that need to be repaired... Lash: We noticed that carpet was ... And then do you have some stuff in mind, aren't there display cases or something when you first come in? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: Have you got some, we should have some especially nice things in there in the beginning. Meger: Referendum things. Lash: Well yeah, it could be that. 48 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Beitel: Just to display some of that stuff and ... that would make some really nice display things to try to... Hoffman: This contractor's gone 2 months late so it's not just... Manders: How many people are going to be involved in just kind of running this on an ongoing basis? Beitel: 8 to 10 people. And that doesn't include aerobic instructors. People doing business... and supervising open gym... Manders: So that's like part time or full time? Beitel: Part time. Lash: Do you have an aerobic instructors already? Beitel: I've got an applicants and ... There are several who work at other places who are looking to pick up more hours. And then there are others out there who would like to... Berg: How sound proof is that room? Beitel: It's pretty sound proof. Berg: Because I know when I used to go to Northwest, when they started, you knew it. Throughout almost the entire facility. Lash: Just the music? Berg: Yeah. Hoffman: We talked about that. It's got sound walls up above the ceilings. Many of those facilities, you go up above the ceiling grade and it goes into the next room. Beitel: We will be using a wireless microphone system for the instructors. So the hearing element will be more even. They won't have to be screaming. Lash: Is that it? Beitel: Feel free to come on over and watch the progress. We're there. .E Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: Okay. Are you ready to move on? B. DIRECTOR'S REPORT. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Meger: Erik, how much longer are you here? Donnely: Until next Friday. Lash: Boy, that went fast... I had this, and I didn't know when I was going to bring it up because I didn't see commission presentations on here but. I talked with Jerry earlier in the summer, and I think Dawn about the, what are your big events or what are those, super events? You know where you were going to the water slide and all of that and they go up to age 11 and then that's basically the cut off and I was wondering if we want to look into the possibility of forming another group. Have it be 12 up or 12 to 16 or 12 to 15 or whatever you think would be a good cut off and offer some kind of activities similar to those. It could be Apple River. The water slide, the wave pool. Those things are all fun. That rock-- climbing deal or whatever it was that you went to. Kids that age would like that too. Twins game or whatever. Some of those kind of things. I think those are the kids that are in the non drivers. They don't have jobs yet and I can tell you from my own experience at my house, summer gets to be a lot of video games and it's pretty sickening for kids that age. They need to have some stuff to do and I know it's hard to get it going. I know with even the ski trips. You try and a lot of times they get cancelled because they just don't sign up. But I feel like, I want to see if we can at least try and offer some things and see what happens. Hoffman: Do you sign your kids up at that age or do they sign themselves up? Lash: He wanted to go on about 3 or 4 of these but he was too old. He had about 3 friends that wanted to go too and I came up and got the forms and we had them all filled out and then we read the fine print and saw it was 11 and under and they were all 13 so they couldn't go. So yeah, I mean they're old enough. They don't need transportation up to City Hall to get the bus. They can ride their bike up here. So for working parents, that's not too much of a problem. It's just trying to get the kids organized a little bit. Hoffman: Did we have anything for that particular category? Ruegemer: Not really this summer. You know last summer we tried to do teen trips, or really the last two summers. It was just... Those were touring teens. Last year we tried in the 50 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 summer time and also during the school year. Early fall and early winter and those type of i things. Hoffman: Those were the same kinds of spots, right? Ruege Y mer: Yeah. Last year was the St. Croix River. Tubing down that. Trout Air. Went up there for a hayride. What else was last year? Beaver Mountain. Some of the people that did go, we had a limited amount but we still did go. We had 3 or 4 of them last summer. Hoffman: We have plenty of time. Now you can try them again... r Lash: Well you know, kick it around and see. Maybe we need to do a little better PR or something. Send something home from the middle school before school's out and with the schedule, maybe if they, they never read the paper so they'd never find out that way but. Ruegemer: Cable access. Berg: Yeah. If we're going at the high school students, that would be something where they definitely would see it. I was wondering about this youth person. With all the attempts we've made at these things and how they've failed so awfully, would there be enough? What do you have in mind for a full time, 12 month youth director? Hoffman: This position is coming from the Athletic Association. They coordinate a couple thousand youths throughout the community on a seasonal basis in all the sports and it's a big job for volunteer associations. I think we talked about it before. The administrators of these youth organizations are frustrated. They're frustrated with field availability. They're frustrated with the financial... they're frustrated with the coordination of their sports, and then that frustration goes down and filters down to coaches. Coaches don't feel they get the support they need. They don't feel they get the communication they need. That frustration filters down to the user. The user comes in and comes up to the program and thinks our coordinator... and they're all throwing up their hands and they're coming down and you're saying you know, the city spends a lot of time on adult activities. They spend a lot of time and money on senior activities. They spend a lot of money on activities and coordination L for ... and etc, etc and our teenagers, 10 to 15, 10 to 16, and 18 year old youth don't get much attention in the community. We think it's time the City Council ponies up and spends some money and puts some effort into ... carry that message, however limited it is, forward for consideration. ,la Lash: So is it, this person would be a liaison or more of a coordinator for CAA? ' 51 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Hoffman: Well it'd be something which would evolve. They'd be a liaison. We're not going to assign them as a manager for the athletic association. That would be a liaison position but you start to peel off responsibilities that are... Berg: Sort of like talking to the park thing that goes on every summer that Dawn orchestrates, would that possibly fall under it for the Tiny Tots and the Dyna -Mites and that sort of thing? Would that be part of it too? Hoffman: It could. It depends on where you draw the line... I recall when the Water Resource Coordinator was hired... City Council couldn't figure out what a Water Resource Coordinator would do and when Diane came on line, between public safety, parks and rec, and planning and engineering, I think the first week carried in 80 some files in her office and said here you go. The water runs. Causes this water. Does this water. Does that water. Does this and here's all the files that have to do with water and ... I can't say that that would be the same that the youth coordinator would do. We seem to place an awful big emphasis on our youth but then again—age groups kind of force their way through on the shoulders of their parents... And the Athletic Association, they're considering hiring... Berg: It might be nice to have it as an agenda item and have some outside people come in too and give their vision as to what they would think it might work. How it might work. CAA. Lash: Or check with other communities that have one and find out well, what kind of things does that person do. And too, I guess I have two things of input about that. I went to that meeting in Excelsior with all the communities. When Dawn and I went there, and that was interesting to hear what some of them had to say and they really had gotten themselves into a lot, I think a fix. A lot of the different communities did because Community Ed, through the school district had taken on so much of the sports and the scheduling and all of that and there was a real conflict between the school district and the cities in trying to figure out, well who was going to have priority over the fields and there was always the crunch so we really want to make sure we don't end up in one of those kind of predicaments because that sounds like they have a way bigger nightmare than we have here with scheduling. And I've already forgotten my other one so never mind. I had two points. It will come back. Berg: I would think another group worth asking to maybe think about it would be the Youth Commission in 112. I don't know if Minnetonka has something. Well I know Minnetonka does I guess. They might have some ideas too. As to what this kind of person's job description could entail. 52 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: Here was the other point. With CAA they have, there's just no continuity from year to year in these different programs. They've got different coordinators every year and they make up their own rules at the beginning and they don't tell people what they are and then as the season goes on, they change the rules mid -game and it's just a nightmare because they don't have, there's just no continuity between the rules and how we set up the programs and how the rules will transition as the kids get older. So I look at that as a benefit because I see that person as coming up with criteria for each program and each age range that would be consistent. 1 Roeser: I think the CAA is made up of people who, when they're kids are involved, they're involved. And then when their kids are done with it, they leave the program. That's why the turn over is there so maybe something... Lash: And whoever's involved has their own agenda. You know some people are very competitive and want to see it go strictly by some book of rules and then the next person who comes in the next year maybe, well this is for fun. This is just a learning experience for kids and we'll put the rule book out the window or we'll just adapt these rules and you never know from year to year what's going on and it causes a lot of fights between coaches and coordinators and a lot of unnecessary... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Lash: Part of me wants to say if CAA is willing to hire a director to try to iron out all of their problems, let them spend the money. But on the other hand, you know we talk, talk, talk about, and we care about kids and we want to provide all these different things but then we never come across with the money to ever make anything happen. Berg: Yeah, and part of it for me is we've tried so many things and they've failed, part of me wants to say it's not going to go and the other part says, maybe if we've got somebody who can dedicate all their time to it. Lash: Would it have to be a full time person or could we just get a part time person and see how that goes and if things take off and it evolves into a full time position, fine. And if it doesn't, we don't have somebody sitting around. So are we meeting on the 12th anyway, did you say? For this task force. Hoffman: Tentatively yes. Lash: Well do you think you can pull together a little more info for us by then and then maybe we can make a decision that night. 53 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Hoffman: Sure. Who would you like to talk to? The Youth Commission and CAA? Lash: I'd be interested in other communities if they have one and if it's a full time position and the kind of things that they do. Berg: Somebody's got a successful program out there someplace. Lash: Well and what kind of numbers do you need to have population to support that or to require that. Where we're at. Okay. Hoffman: Every community is unique and it's as much ... tempted to copy cat or piggy back onto somebody else's ideas ... simply pursuing what is right for your community. You can spend an awful lot of time trying to do what the other folks are doing and sometimes you look back and it's not for us in Chanhassen... It's a double edge sword at times. You don't get a fence at Bluff Creek Elementary Chan Rec Center because of design standards but those same design standards also keep a lot of other things... That's it for Direcfor's Report. C. COMMISSION VACANCY. Todd Hoffman gave an update on the Commission vacancy. Lash: Are there any questions or comments on the Administrative Section? Berg: This is anticipating basketball season, and if it's planned for a later time let me know. You had lots of problems last year with basketball players and teams. What are we doing differently or do you want to talk about that at a different time? Ruegemer: Yeah, I can update the commission on that. Letters were sent out sometime mid July I believe on that ... 1994 -95 mens groups saying it's pretty much—the commission's motion ...but basically was stated to say that we have had problems in the past. Basically the organization... so right now I know a person that looks like they're going to be the executor or administrator of that program. Right now we did meet about 2 or 3 weeks ago in that regard. I did turn over a lot of the organizational type of files for it that... organizational type of start up materials over to that person so it looks like there will be a basketball league again this year. What it's organization is, that I'm not sure of at this point but I haven't really checked back with that person so ... I know the word is out on the street that the City of Chanhassen is not going to be coordinating the program anymore so I think they're just basically looking for a contact person so. 54 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - August 22, 1995 Lash: Any other commission questions? I just have some kudos for staff I was going to run 1 through. First of all, now that we know Erik's leaving and this will be our last meeting with Erik, so I think we all want to thank Erik for his hard work. All summer. Donnely: It's been a pleasure meeting you all. I haven't had a lot of contact with every one... Lash: Thanks for your hard work. And Dawn, we'll give some kudos to Dawn for all her hard work on the Rec Center. It was my first time in there tonight and I was really impressed. It looks great. I know you've been working hard so thanks to that. Thanks to Todd for the tours. I always like that. I think everybody said tonight they like that. I have a kudos for ' Jerry. I had a comment from somebody who's fairly newly involved in CAA and the person's been working with you and just mentioned to me the other day how helpful you've been and he really thought you were a great guy and all that so I wanted to pass that onto you. Berg: And actually kudos from my wife, for all the staff. When we ran into the other day at ' the establishment in Excelsior. She commented again on the time that she reserved the Lake Susan pavilion from you and how she walked in the second time and you had no idea who she was but you remembered her name and how friendly the staff has been dealing with park things and whatever for our little kids. It's really nice because you get the sense that that's what the rest of the public is seeing too and that's just fantastic. So thank you. Lash: Good job. Roeser moved, Meger seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion ' carried. The meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Director Prepared by Nann Opheim f 1 55