CC 2011 07 11
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 11, 2011
Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. The meeting was opened with the
Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mayor Furlong, Councilwoman Ernst, Councilman
Laufenburger, Councilwoman Tjornhom, and Councilman McDonald
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Gerhardt, Laurie Hokkanen, Kate Aanenson, Paul Oehme, Todd
Hoffman and Roger Knutson
PUBLIC PRESENT:
Jim Theis 6400 Chanhassen Road
Steve Jenks 7490 Chanhassen Road
Bob Ayotte 6231 Cascade Pass
Chad Larson Kimley-Horn and Associates
Mayor Furlong: Thank you and welcome everyone. Those here in the council chambers and
those watching at home. We’re glad that you joined us this evening. At this time I would ask
members of council if there are any changes or modifications to the agenda. If not, without
objection we’ll proceed with the agenda as published.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
None.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded
to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s
recommendations:
a. Approval of Minutes:
-City Council Work Session Minutes dated June 27, 2011
-City Council Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated June 27, 2011
Review Commission Minutes:
-Planning Commission Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated June 21, 2011
Resolution#2011-43:
b. Approve Quote for Repainting of Downtown Water Tower.
Resolution#2011-44:
c. Lyman Boulevard Improvements, Phase I, Project 06-03:
Approve Resolution for Advancement of Municipal State Aid Funds.
d. TH 101 from Lyman Boulevard to Pioneer Street Reconstruction:
Resolution#2011-45:
1) Approve Resolution Accepting Ea/EAW and Call for
Public Hearing.
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Resolution#2011-46:
2) Approve Resolution for Cooperative Agreement Grant
Application (Intersection of Pioneer Trail and TH 101).
e. Approval of Temporary On-Sale Intoxicating Liquor License, Harvest Festival, August
20 & 21, St. Hubert Catholic Community.
f. Boulder Cove Subdivision: Approve Time Extension to File Development Contract and
Final Plan Mylars, Cottage Homesteads at Boulder Cove, LLC.
g. Approve Amendment to Chapter 7 of City Code Concerning Electrical Regulations (as
amended by staff); Including Approval of Summary Ordinance for Publication Purposes.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
Bob Ayotte: Good evening Mayor, council. My name is Bob Ayotte. I live at 6213 Cascade
Pass in Chanhassen and I’m not going to presume that you all do not know issues associated with
the zebra mussel issue but I do want to make it a matter of public record as a resident. That was
planned. Anyways, so I just wanted to make these points as a matter of public record. I’m
certain that you already have it in your rucksack anyways but if I make it a matter of public
record, then we can force the talking points down the road. I had a, I was listening to, I was
going to say I had a conversation with Senator Ortman. That wasn’t true. I was listening to
Senator Ortman. She made a very key point with regard to the city of Chanhassen, that it’s a
center of influence and you can take away with that what you will. For me the center of
influence is that it’s got a lot of lakes and these lakes are pristine and we need to protect them.
The second point I want to make is that when you thought about running for city council you
could not find a good reason to do it because it’s a hell of a job and no one thanks you so from
that standpoint the only reason why you do it is because if good people don’t do it, bad people
will so that’s the second point I want to bring up before I go into the specifics. With regard to,
because you are going to get a lot of frontal attacks on this business I’m certain but when you do
consider it I would ask to make these considerations a part of your discussion, and I’ll put the
first one public safety. Whatever ordinance you do decide to adopt, if you do decide to adopt it,
that it’s enforceable. So often we’ll have an ordinance on the books, which is silly because you
cannot really control it. Secondly, that there has to be repercussions associated with not
following an ordinance and that the deterrents associated with it must be severe. So if you do go
along that path, along that trail of bringing an ordinance, make sure that happens. I’ve had
discussions with a few folks and to a point, if you do introduce an ordinance you can bet that
there will be somebody who will contradict that ordinance. Go around that ordinance and defy
that ordinance and do things that might even be worst than if we didn’t have the ordinance.
Sabotage as an example. So don’t think that it will not happen because it has happened in other
areas so please make that note known when you have that discussion amongst yourselves. The
second point is, I would ask that you also take a look at the other community experiences. One
of the things that I experienced in the military, I was in for a couple years, was that there was too
much ready, fire, aim. I would ask that you stay away from that so take a look at other
communities with some level of detail and let’s see if we can learn from that, and I’ll just throw a
little dig in because I used to work with the Environmental Commission. That would be a good
deal for them to dig into myself. I’m just going to recommend that. Legality. I know we pay
2
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
vast quantities of money to Roger so for that reason I would suggest that from the legal aspects
we really take a look at that and then include it in that association with the legal aspects some
effort to take in those other agents that have a vested interest. As an example DNR. I would
hope that this City Council, and I’m sure you realize that, who owns the water, so those parties
that are associated with our lakes, viz a viz the DNR be included beyond a simple consultation.
One of the things that I think you should be proud of is what you’ve done in cooperation with the
University of Minnesota and other educational arms when it comes to carp. Those heathen
creatures but anyways, why not take the step forward and dig deep and hard to see what other
opportunities there may be, not only with state agencies but educational arms and even god
forbid the feds. You know there are agencies within the federal government that are deep into
this sort of thing so those are the points I wanted to make just as a matter of public record. I
realize most of you, you probably all know the things that I’ve mentioned but I just want to make
it a point again from the community standpoint, from the resident standpoint. One last point I’d
like to bring up, and I was hoping I’d see public safety here. Someone from Sheriff Olson’s
office but I believe there’s an imbalance in water patrols in the city of Chanhassen. There’s too
much attention as far as I’m concerned in those areas west of us. I love those folks out in the
west but nonetheless if you take a look at the hours spent on lakes that a way rather than this a
way I believe there is an imbalance and I would suggest that maybe we take a look at that the
next time we have discussions with our sheriff, maybe that could be brought up. Thank you for
your attention and the opportunity to address you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you Mr. Ayotte. Anyone else who would like to address the council this
evening.
Jim Theis: Hi. My name is Jim Theis and I live at 6400 Chanhassen Road on the corner of 101
and Pleasant View. I didn’t know if you wanted to now or wait until new business but I’m here
to talk about the 101 and Pleasant View trail and road improvement.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Theis, thank you for asking. Let’s, if you don’t mind staying around for
that item when we bring it up on our agenda and I’ll be sure to have public comments at that
time. And anyone else that would like to speak on that but thank you. Anyone else within
visitor presentations this evening?
Steve Jenks: Yeah Mr. Mayor and council members and staff, I’m Steve Jenks. I live at 7490
Chanhassen Road and I’m here with, to represent the Lake Action Alliance and the Lake Action
Alliance is a group of interested parties that have been looking deeply into the zebra mussel
problem and we were looking at it individually for the lakes we were engaged with and we all
came to some pretty common issues and so as we worked together we found ways we thought
would, could be ways to address those common issues and come up with a workable solution to
prevent zebra mussels from in fact infesting several Chanhassen lakes. And so what we’d like to
do is spend the next couple of weeks engaging the City Council with our plan, our proposal. It’s
a pilot and then what we’d like to do is have this pilot proposal as a topic for the City Council in
2 weeks, and so I just want to leave you with that. I can spend much more time if you want me
to and I think some of you already know a bit about it but we’d like to talk to you all in detail.
It’s important for the success of this program to have Chanhassen as a partner and that’s what
we’re after.
3
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And Mr. Jenks I know we’ve had a number of meetings. You’ve
attended some and city staff has been involved more of the meetings than I’ve been involved
with so I know that at our last meetings there were some open questions. You and I spoke on
Friday and I don’t know if there are more responses there or not but Mr. Gerhardt anything from
your standpoint here in terms of the status. Have we, I guess one of my questions, have we
received information back from, on some of those open items? Which were open items because
I think the reason I ask that is, having answers to those are going to be, will be important as to
the timing of when the council gets involved so.
Todd Gerhardt: We’re still working on a legal opinion yet to see what jurisdiction really has
authority over the boat access and the possibility of gating that or not gating that. We also are
looking for information on where the inspections are going to occur and I think there’s several
other ones that I don’t remember off the top of my head but.
Steve Jenks: Yeah I’ve got some things that, I don’t know if this is the right forum. There’s a
lot of details. Probably another forum to talk about it but I can answer some of those and I’m
thrilled to hear that you’re working on the legal issue because that’s one of the requests we
would make. We don’t have the authority and frankly it’s better if you ask the question the way
you want it answered.
Mayor Furlong: What I would suggest is, you know as we talked about at the last meeting that I
attended with a number of representatives from the lake associations, as well as the City of
Shorewood, Carver County, DNR had representatives there, watershed districts, is when we get
some of these basic questions answered we’ll certainly bring it back to the council as soon as it’s
ready to go. It’s not something that we’re by any means shying away from but I think it’s, from
productivity standpoint it makes sense to make sure that we, from legal issues and other types of
questions in terms of the process for the proposal, that we have enough to talk about.
Steve Jenks: So if I work with Todd.
Mayor Furlong: I think continue to work with.
Steve Jenks: I want to make sure I address your questions because obviously I’d like to have it
on the agenda.
Mayor Furlong: Yep.
Steve Jenks: Are you the right contact for me to engage?
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, I’ll send you an email with our list of questions and concerns from a staff
level and then I’m sure the council will have additional ones when we meet.
Steve Jenks: That’d be great. Right.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Steve Jenks: Thank you very much.
4
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Okay, we’ll keep moving forward. Thank you.
Steve Jenks: Thanks.
Mayor Furlong: Anyone else for visitor presentations this evening? Very good, thank you.
TH 101 AND PLEASANT VIEW INTERSECTION PROJECT 11-05: CONSIDER
APPROVAL OF PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS, AUTHORIZE ADVERTISING FOR
BIDS.
Mayor Furlong: Let’s start with a staff report please. We’ll pick up questions from council
members and then have public comment before.
Councilman McDonald: Excuse me Mr. Mayor, I need to recuse myself from this before we get
started.
Mayor Furlong: Councilman McDonald, thank you. I apologize for forgetting that.
Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor, City Council members. I just have a brief presentation for you
tonight. Just a little background here. The project is again, it’s 101 and Trunk Highway 101 and
Pleasant View Road which is up in the northeast corner of our community. Background a little
bit for this project. It kind of initiated you know several years ago. We have continuously
received residential complaints and complaints from traveling public in this area regarding the
intersection of 101 and Pleasant View Road. Staff has worked with MnDOT and others to look
at the intersection and the accidents that have been taking place out here and MnDOT has
assisted us on some traffic counts and some turning movements counts as well so been very
helpful in obtaining that documentation as well. And also working with the parks department on,
up in this location of our community. There is a trail gap per se from Pleasant View Road up to
County Road 62. Town Line Drive where there is a trail gap between our trail loop in our
community and the trail within other communities so trying to address all those issues under this
one project. The City has received almost $600,000 worth of grant dollars for this project,
including for trail improvements and Highway 101 improvements as well so. Work to date, we
rd
have met with the neighbors in this area on March 3. We did receive some good feedback from
those property owners. Most of the people that we have talked to are in favor of the project
moving forward. We are continuing to meet with property owners along the corridor,
specifically in conjunction with easements that are necessary for the construction of the trail
along 101 so continue meeting with those property owners. And then plans have been completed
as far as we can go at this time until MnDOT gets back to work and finishes up the reviews of
those plans. Chad Larson is here from Kimley-Horn and Associates and they have been helping,
assisting the City in putting those plans together as well. Just looking at some of the
documentation, that data that we’ve collected for this intersection. Accidents are shown here on
101 mainly from 2006 all the up to present date. Total of about 21 accidents have been recorded
by MnDOT at this location and you some of these accidents potentially can be reduced or
correctable with additional left turn lanes at this intersection and some of those crashes that have
been identified are those left turn lanes or rear end’s. The side swipe crashes that potentially can
be reduced by reconfiguring this intersection. There are substantial delays at trying to get onto
Pleasant View, or onto 101 from Pleasant View Road, especially in the a.m. peak hours and you
5
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
some of those accidents potentially can be reduced if the queuing and the traffic volumes are not
as congested at those intersections when the traffic is trying to get in and out as well so.
Mayor Furlong: Excuse me Mr. Oehme. Question on this slide if I may interrupt.
Paul Oehme: Sure.
Mayor Furlong: 2006-2007, 6 and 7 accidents. They’ve clearly fallen off on an annual basis.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Mayor Furlong: Anything that MnDOT or that you recognize that changed here to cause that or
is it just.
Paul Oehme: The opening of 212.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Paul Oehme: There was a, looking back at the traffic counts on 101, there was a peak at about
2001 and then it kind of leveled off there at 2001 at about 15,000 trips per day. Now it’s down
to about 10,000 trips per day so I can correlate that to traffic volumes more or less on 101 to try
and, vehicles trying to get in and out of Pleasant View Road I think is where the congestion and
the people trying to run that intersection. Trying to beat some traffic. That’s where some of
those accidents I think are taking place.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And the numbers look, I mean 2 to 6, or 2 to 7 I mean that’s a 300%
change right.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Mayor Furlong: It’s just still 2 to 6 accidents so, just curious but thank you.
Paul Oehme: We did also did look at what the County did on Powers Boulevard. As council
knows back in 2010 the County did install and construct some left turn lanes on Powers
Boulevard north of Trunk Highway 5, mainly Pleasant View Road, Lake Lucy Road and Kerber
Boulevard were some of the bigger left turn lanes that were put in there so, County did apply for
grant dollars for that project as well. Some federal dollars and that application there were 14
crashes that were identified at those 3 intersections and since those improvements have taken
place, the County has not documented any correctable crashes at any of those intersection at this
point in time so you know, the improvements are new so, but you know there really isn’t any
history there to really quantify any improvements per se but you know based upon what we were
seeing in the field and what Carver County Sheriff department has, is telling us those left turn
lanes have been very much appreciated and needed so. Getting back to some design
considerations to the left turn lanes. MnDOT has warrants for left turn lanes at specific
intersections and looking at basically undivided highways under their criteria they’re, if there’s
more than 6,500 trips per day on the main thoroughfare and the cross traffic is you know
anywhere, you know above 400 trips per day, a left turn lane is warranted under most
circumstances so, and again over on 101 and Pleasant View Road under 2009 trips, or average
6
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
daily trips there’s 10,000, little over 10,000 trips per day on 101 and then Pleasant View, the
cross street, is a little over 3,200 trips per day so based upon MnDOT’s warrants for left turn
lanes, the left turn lane should be going in on 101. And then also right turn lanes there is a
warrant for right hand turn lanes too. So currently 101, looking north here, is a two lane
roadway with right hand turn lanes at Pleasant View Road going into Eden Prairie and then
southbound into the city of Chanhassen. There is no right hand turn lane on Pleasant View Road
to date as well. It’s a rural section. Fairly narrow. Steep embankments and last year MnDOT
did overlay this section of roadway and made some improvements but did not include turn lanes
or any other safety improvements at Pleasant View Road under that project. So what we’re
proposing for this project is to add left turn lanes again on 101 at Pleasant View Road. Add a
right turn lane at Pleasant View Road for southbound traffic getting onto 101. Wider shoulders
at 101. Placing curb on the west side of 101 where we can along 101 to increase, improve
drainage along this corridor. Extending the trail from Pleasant View Road to the regional trail on
County Road 62 so we can, so those trails can connect into different communities. Drainage
improvements again on 101 and Pleasant View Road. Extending the road on Pleasant View
Road to the west to the trail crossing and then add curb and gutter on the north side of Pleasant
View Road as well. Have talked to MnDOT about signal warrants at this intersection and at this
point in time there is the threshold is not met for justifying a signal at this time. This drawing
shows the proposed improvements, a little bit clouded here but try to walk you through a little bit
of this. Fox Hollow Road is off to the right hand side here. We are planning to improve that
turn lane based upon the geometrics of getting the right turn lane in here and the left turn lane on
101. That intersection or that right hand turn lane has to be modified a little bit and moved to the
east. And then right hand turn lanes again at Pleasant View Road into Eden Prairie and the left
hand turn lane here into Pleasant View Road heading westbound. The yellow is showing new
pavement area along the intersection and then the blue area is showing shoulder improvements as
well. There is storm sewer planned to be constructed on the west side of 101. There is kind of a
ditch section there right now. We’re going to try to urbanize that a little bit and treat the water in
the pond here on the south side of the project. Moving north, adding the right turn lane at
Pleasant View for southbound 101 traffic. We think widening the intersection a little bit.
Adding storm sewer for this intersection as well. Most of the water, runoff we’ll be treating in
the pond at the northwest corner of 101 and Pleasant View. And then adding curb and gutter
along the west side of 101 here. Again adding shoulder to the 101 on the east side of this section
of road as well and then extending the trail to the north. And then also extending some curb cuts
here and trail improvements, crossings at the intersections as well. And then moving north from
Pleasant View Road, again extending the trail to the north on the west side of 101 where it ties
into Town Line Drive or County Road 62 here. There is a retaining wall approximately 6 feet
high that will have to be constructed in this location here. And then again adding the shoulder
and storm sewer improvements along this corridor as well. Moving to Pleasant View Road and
north is up here. 101 is currently here. We are planning to extend the trail along the north side
of Pleasant View Road all the way to the crossing, existing trail crossing here. Approximately
1,600 feet worth of new trail along here. There is a small retaining wall we’re going to have to
construct at this location just to stay out of, within the right-of-way basically. We are planning
to add curb and gutter and storm sewer to the north side of Pleasant View Road at this location
and then also east of Near Mountain Boulevard as well. So with that, we are still working with
MnDOT in trying to get some of the approvals. Obviously they’re not in business right now so
we’re kind of delayed in that aspect of it but if the State would come back to work in the near
nd
future here we are, we would like to try to award a contract on August 22 of this year and then
th
start September 6. This is fairly optimistic right now but this is still what we’re planning on
7
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
shooting for. If we can’t meet this schedule as presented tonight we would ask that the bids be
delayed and then bid it, the project out in early spring of next year 2012. So with that just want
to highlight a couple other items here. The scope of the project has changed somewhat from
what was preliminarily talked about when the current application was put together. There is a
larger pavement section that was needed on 101 based upon MnDOT’s requirements for the
project. We did again add that turn lane in, reconstruct that turn lane into Fox Hollow Drive a
little bit and then some pond over sizing to and larger retaining walls, bigger retaining walls that
added to the cost of the project. So the project total right now is about $850,000. The grant is
for $594,000. It includes some engineering costs. There are some costs associated with the City.
Most of those are associated with the trail on Pleasant View Road and extension to the west there
and then we do have some storm sewer improvements and pond improvements that we’d like to
make in conjunction with this project too so. Moving forward those are the funding areas that
the City has budgeted for at this time. You know if we go over those budget items, staff has
looked at other funding sources including State Aid funds, especially if this project can be bid
out next year, that we probably potentially can tap into. So with that if there’s any other
questions, I’d be more than happy to try to answer them.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for Mr. Oehme. Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme, can you just speak to if the State doesn’t come back,
what is the, well eventually they will I expect. In time to beat our timeframe, what’s the
financial impact, positive or negative, to the project if it spills over into next year? Can you just
speak to that?
Paul Oehme: Well I don’t know if there’s a positive aspect to delaying it til 2012. I think there’s
going to be some inflationary costs and some other materials cost potentially that could be
incurred. Bidding out a project next year there are, I think there’s a lot of projects that are in the
pipeline right now so I think there’s potentially a lot of projects that are in the same boat that we
are that potentially get bid out at the same time next year so more competition for us basically or
there’ll be a lot more projects being bid out at that time so potentially cost will be raised in the
spring so just looking at it from those perspectives, I don’t think there’s, you know a good reason
not to bid it out as soon as we can.
Councilman Laufenburger: So it potential that we could bid it out this year for construction next
year?
Paul Oehme: Absolutely. And that’s what we’re looking at too is you know when is the
opportune time to bid this project out. It doesn’t have to be in the spring of next year. It could
be you know fall, winter timeframe too. There is a, you know a small question about bidding it
out in the fall because of oil, especially in this type of project when their oil prices are unknown.
You know contractors like to see bids out and then construct it as quickly as they can just so they
know those costs but it’s something that we still have to discuss and decide on when the best
time to bid this project out, if you want to go forward with it.
Councilman Laufenburger: And just a second question. The cost that you’re showing in this Mr.
Oehme, that includes the easement acquisitions required to complete the project, is that correct?
Paul Oehme: That is correct.
8
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And can you talk a little bit about the basis for those
easement acquisitions?
Paul Oehme: Sure. We did go through a formal appraisal process, working with the attorney’s
office and did receive appraisals for I think 6 individual parcels that we need. Either permanent
trail easement for, or temporary construction easements to construct a trail on so based upon
those findings and you know they look at comparable 6 or 7 different comparables for residential
properties that we’re dealing with and based upon those they come up with a square foot price
basically on what it, what the market is seeing for those type of land pieces.
Councilman Laufenburger: And the practice of establishing what that easement payment might
be, those practices we’ve been using in Chanhassen for a number of years. Have we changed
them recently in any respect?
Paul Oehme: No. Absolutely not. It’s all, working again with the attorney’s office, going
through that process. That’s very similar to what the City has always done in obtaining
appraisals and making those offer letters and those type of things.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions for Mr. Oehme. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Paul, the last time we talked you were still talking to Eden Prairie about
potentially partnering, potentially them partnering with us to pay for this project. Do we have
any further updates on that?
Paul Oehme: You know I haven’t talked to Eden Prairie recently about it. I know we’ve had
several conversations with them a little while ago. They, you know they, at this point in time
they’re not willing to participate in the cost of this project. I don’t know if it’s, they don’t see the
benefit to the residents for the project or if there’s a financial issue or what not but at this time
they haven’t come forward and offered any financial assistance for the project.
Councilwoman Ernst: Can we circle back with them to see if there’s any change in that?
Paul Oehme: Yep, absolutely and there has been some staff changes over there too and we can
definitely, it doesn’t hurt to call them.
Councilwoman Ernst: Thank you.
Todd Gerhardt: Paul they have worked with us in allowing us to access some of their storm
water.
Paul Oehme: Right, yeah. I should clarify that too. All the storm water off this project is going
into Eden Prairie. They’ve worked with us on you know the design a little bit on that and
allowing that additional runoff basically to enter their system so.
Councilwoman Ernst: I’d just like them to come forth with a little more.
9
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Paul Oehme: Yeah. Yeah so they’ve been a good partner up to this point. It’s just that financial
piece that we haven’t.
Mayor Furlong: Well and I think certainly going back and asking is important but again I’m
glad Mr. Gerhardt you brought that up. They have been supportive of the project and, which is
necessary for us to move this forward so.
Paul Oehme: Absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: Other questions? Councilwoman Tjornhom that you can think of at this time?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: No, I think that’s good.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. There may be questions as well later but at this point let me, if there are
no more questions at this time let me open it up for public hearing. Public comment. Mr. Theis,
good evening. Thank you for waiting.
Jim Theis: Well I’ve been talking with a few of the neighbors who have permanent easement
land, taking or whatever, and unfortunately one called me here and wasn’t going to be able to
make it here for work. Another told me that probably already last night.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Excuse me Mr. Mayor, could we put a slide up of maybe where he
lives.
Mayor Furlong: Oh certainly.
Jim Theis: Yeah if we can bring up that, I have some things here but I don’t have a fancy little
shots. The three concerns that we have, my main concern, and I’ll give you a little background.
I was on the fire department for 20 years here also. I’ve lived at the corner since ’82. I don’t,
you know I don’t have the criteria to disagree with MnDOT but I do disagree that the left turns I
think are going to help here and I’ll, I’ve got actually some little handouts if you want to look at
the reports that Paul gave me. When you look at the, or does the camera work here?
Mayor Furlong: Sure. You want to pass them up or put them on the table.
Jim Theis: Sure I can, that’s maybe just as easy. These are some of the traffic reports from
2006, 07 and 08 and that’s all that I have.
Mayor Furlong: Excuse me, Mr. Oehme do you have a copy of this or not?
Jim Theis: Yep. He gave them to me.
Paul Oehme: I didn’t bring my whole file down.
Jim Theis: So my concern, the three concerns are safety, the funding for the trail or the reason
for the whole work. Is it the fact that, I mean we’re kind of turning a $400,000 job into an
$850,000 job. And then the other concern that I guess all three of us have had when we’ve
10
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
talked is the appraisal value. But if you look at pages 2 and 3. On page 2 is in the morning.
Page 3 is in the afternoon. Again I was on the fire department for 20 years. The accidents that
happen there, I can’t really recollect one in the morning. With the traffic flows we have in the
morning. And yet we have almost 500 cars going through. We’ve got 13 making left turns there
in the morning. In the evening seems to be when we get all of the accidents there and the reason
that I bring that to your attention is we have a right turn lane there. We have 160 people, 161
people making right turns and we have 548 going straight through there. If you look at the ’06,
’07 and ’08, if you look at those there are.
Mayor Furlong: Where are you? Excuse me, what page are you on?
Jim Theis: Well they’re not really numbered. It would be 101 of ’06.
Mayor Furlong: I just want to make sure we’re all looking at the same sheet.
Jim Theis: If you look at some of these, this is pulling out of Pleasant View. This is pulling out
of Pleasant View. They’re getting hit from the north. This is pulling out of Pleasant View,
they’re getting hit from the south going north. The other two are coming south. I don’t have
timeframes on these unfortunately so I can’t substantiate other than just the fact that I’ve been to
most of the calls that area vast majority of the calls there because I live there and I’ve called a lot
of them in. We have two other ones here in the ’07 that are pulling out and getting hit and then
we have the one in ’08. And as I look at this, most the time when you get out there most the
people, first thing they said is they didn’t see the car coming through and what do we have?
We’ve got 161 people coming and making a right turn and we’ve got 548 people coming straight
through and I claim that we’re hiding cars as they’re coming straight through. The straight
through traffic doesn’t have to slow down. We’re going to create that same thing going when we
put the left turn in for the south, or the northbound traffic and we’re going to start hiding people
behind those 55 cars that are making the left turns in the afternoon too with 341 people going
through. We have that going on now and we’re not having, we had 1 accident that got hit from a
northbound and we have the 5 or 6 other ones that are getting hit from southbound traffic so I’m
not a traffic engineer and I don’t have the criteria to say that but I’ve been around there so these
left turn lanes I don’t think are going to make it safer. As far as the back up, we have the biggest
back up in the morning because we have 140 people making left turns going out of there. I’m
not sure how making the traffic go faster on 101 is going to help the people that are trying to get
out from Pleasant View, and those are the Chanhassen residents. A lot of these other people are
going through. They’re going to 62 so those are my safety concerns before we just buy into this
that MnDOT knows almighty. Again they did create 62 and 35W that we all lived through for
how many decades going into Minneapolis and they just finally straighten that out so they don’t
always get it right either. I think that some of this should be looked at as individual basis and if
we’re just doing it for the compensation so that the City is paying $200,000 less for the project,
for the trail project, then let’s just say that. That’s part of the concern that some of us have about
the funding part of it. But I’ve asked the question, I’ve asked Paul. I’ve asked the engineers
when we came here. You know everybody right away they say it’s safer and everybody thinks
it’s going to be safer but I beg to think that I’m not sure that it is with the type of accidents we’re
having. We’ve got, there’s one rear ender there from somebody making a left turn to go
northbound in them 3 years. There’s some different bicycle ones. There’s some ones that are
with certain months where I think it’s slippery that they’ve caused accidents but of the accidents
that happened, most of them happen from people pulling out from the west side out of the
11
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Chanhassen side of Pleasant View and they’re getting struck by the southbound traffic by you
know over double the amount and the only thing that we have there is we have a right turn that’s
hiding those other cars that are coming straight through and we’re going to create that with a left
turn going northbound when we have you know pretty high peak flows there with a lot of left
turn traffic too so I guess that’s all I can say as far as the safety wise goes. The funding part was
a concern. The other gentleman that, Gary Harrison and Dan Campion couldn’t make it here
tonight but they were, or Gary was a little concerned about the funding and using the State
money to kind of do some of this stuff and should we be doing that. If it’s their road, like Paul
said, they just did an overlay on it. They’re so concerned about the turn lanes, why didn’t they
do it then? That was last year. So those are some of my issues. I think there’s more going on in
here, and obviously I’m affected because we’re going to move the road 10 feet more into my,
they’re only taking 7 feet of property but there’s already grass inbetween so it’s really 10 feet
that blacktop is coming closer to my house. The appraisal doesn’t even, I mean I kind of had to
laugh when I got it because I don’t think any of you would have considered taking 7 feet out of
the front of your house for what I got so I’m not sure how that goes. I do have an appraisal that
I’ll be giving Paul tomorrow from somebody that I got and it’s a little different, and they also
didn’t use the, they didn’t use any loaner owned properties either. They were able to find 3 of
the 5 appraisals that were on most of our different deals were from foreclosed properties. I’m
assuming that’s what it is when it’s loaner owned. So those are some of the concerns we have
about the job. Why it’s getting done and then how the funding is and the way the State is right
now, I’m not sure that we should, that they should really be handing out the money and why
didn’t they do it when they had the chance to do it last year when they were doing it. I’ve heard
different things with different funds and stuff so are we just doing the dirty work for them to get
a grant so they can get what they want? I don’t know but it does have a personal effect on me so
I just kind of want to get clarification as you guys go to vote on it.
Mayor Furlong: Alright.
Jim Theis: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Yep, thank you. Mr. Oehme, various questions, comments raised. Your
thoughts, comments, answers.
Paul Oehme: Yeah just to Mr. Theis’ point about MnDOT not installing those turn lanes in when
they performed the overlay project. Typically MnDOT doesn’t install those type of turn lane
improvements. That kind of comes out of a different funding source. The funding source that
they used for the overlay is more of a preservation. Keep the pavement together type of project.
You know that’s all I can, really can say to that. They typically just don’t install turn lanes on
this type of, those overlay projects so.
Mayor Furlong: And what, but from a process standpoint, if MnDOT’s going to improve the
road, upgrade it through an overlay, wouldn’t that be the time to add some improvements in as
well? I mean similar to what we try to do when we’re working on our local street projects we try
to bundle the improvements together so we’re not overlaying and then coming back, or
reconstruction come back a year later for utilities.
Paul Oehme: Exactly, and you know I can’t really speak to MnDOT’s you know process but.
12
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Having worked with them or talked to them about this, was there?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, I mean they knew about this application that we were making several years
ago, or anticipating to make so I don’t know if that took part in their thinking process for how
they completed the overlay project but I don’t know.
Mayor Furlong: And I know you can’t speak for them but I know the issue that Mr. Theis brings
up has been a frustration I know for many people. There doesn’t seem to be coordination there
but again that’s MnDOT. One of, I guess where, what I would ask then on that is, what does
MnDOT see as the benefit of these? Of this project from a traffic standpoint, a safety mobility
standpoint.
Paul Oehme: Right, and that gets back to Mr. Theis’ point about the accidents that we see out
there. It’s just not the accidents. I think it’s also the delays and how that intersection functions
during those peak time periods. I think you know some of those accidents are happening
because the intersection can break down since there’s no left turn lanes out there, the through
traffic is blocked behind the turning vehicles so that whole intersection is delayed in terms of
getting the traffic in and out of that intersection on a timely basis so.
Mayor Furlong: So that’s basically a mobility question of traffic.
Paul Oehme: Yep, exactly.
Mayor Furlong: As opposed to necessarily safety. Safety is one aspect but you’re saying
mobility is.
Paul Oehme: Well anything that comes back to safety too because once that intersection breaks
down, the traveling public on say Pleasant View Road, it’s going to take them longer to get out
in that intersection. Maybe they’re in a rush or they’re not paying attention because of those
delays and those are the times that accidents can typically occur so I mean other, and that’s why
MnDOT has warrants for turn lanes is to try to get that traffic moving in those intersections and
out of the intersection as quickly as possibly so the cross traffic can access onto the main
thoroughfare and not be delayed as lone.
Mayor Furlong: So is that the chart that you showed in your presentation Mr. Oehme about the,
when you mentioned warrants?
Paul Oehme: Right, exactly.
Mayor Furlong: Of the traffic.
Paul Oehme: That’s the warrants that MnDOT looks at when putting in those turn lanes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And so if MnDOT gets requests for turn lanes, and we work with them
on signals.
Paul Oehme: Right.
13
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Mayor Furlong: At this intersection for one at Minnewashta Highway 5 for another they’re
looking at warrants. They have a similar warrant process for turn lanes?
Paul Oehme: Exactly.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Paul Oehme: And you meet those thresholds of traffic at those intersections and then you
typically would warrant a turn lane to be installed, either right hand turn lane or left hand.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Okay.
Jim Theis: Mayor can I add one comment on that?
Mayor Furlong: Certainly, just a second. If you want to come up to the podium. Mr. Gerhardt,
you wanted to make a comment.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. As they made improvements at Powers and Lake Lucy, you
know the one thing that you can’t measure is the near misses and driving that for I don’t know
how many years, there’s been so many near misses there where people go around the car trying
to turn left and the person coming southbound turning left doesn’t see that car when it decides to
turn around. So you’ve got the near misses that you’re not looking for or you can account for.
And the second thing is, this went through an extensive review process. This was an application
that the City made competing against other projects in the metro area so, and that’s a group of
other traffic engineers reviewing and pointing saying of the projects that should be done in the
metro area, this one ranks high.
Mayor Furlong: And that’s an objective point system process based upon all the criteria.
Todd Gerhardt: Use the data that was similar.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Very competitive, yeah.
Mayor Furlong: I’m sorry, Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: It’s very competitive you know to be able to score high enough to
qualify for the funding you know and then to get another group of people to justify it and I have
to agree with Mr. Gerhardt that I turn on that road every day, and in the morning I have no
problems getting onto 101 from Pleasant View. But it’s coming from, it’s going, if I can get this
straight. It’s going north on 101 and I’m trying to make a left hand turn and I have to stop
because there are cars coming south and I have cars buzzing around me constantly not waiting.
They’re just driving around my car and going and I sometimes close my eyes because all of a
sudden then another car wants to turn east. So I’ve got a car turning east and one coming around
me and I think that’s where the problem is. It’s the fact that people don’t obey the law. They
don’t wait the way they should. They are in a hurry and they just drive around you.
Jim Theis: No and I won’t say that’s not true but then are we going to do, are we going to do a
by-pass around lanes up and down 101 at Valley View and every other…
14
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Well and you know, we drive that too and you know when there’s a
garbage truck there or the mailman’s there, it’s dangerous.
Jim Theis: But getting back to what Paul’s saying about 101, there’s no doubt it will probably
help 101 go faster but do you see 101 every back up?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I don’t necessarily want to see 101 go faster. I just want it to be
safer.
Jim Theis: Right well but, but now we’re not going to have anybody ever slowing down behind
somebody making a left turn onto Pleasant View when they’re going northbound. So those
people are going to be going 45 miles an hour. We don’t get a back up on 101. There’s never a
back up on 101 other than there may be 3 cars. I’ve never, ever had to wait to get in my
driveway and I’m probably 5 cars or so down from the intersection. I never have to wait to get
in my driveway. The back up is always on Pleasant View to get out. How are these left turn
lanes on 101 going to help Pleasant View get out faster? The right turn lane may help some but
now you’re going to have to watch the left turn lane and the straight through lane plus the two
lanes coming south. You’re going to have more things to watch than what you had before.
That’s just my common sense of it so.
Mayor Furlong: Right, and I hear that question. I guess Mr. Oehme, your thoughts on that from
an engineering standpoint.
Paul Oehme: I mean I think anytime that you have back up at an intersection that creates a
traffic situation where potentially accidents can occur. The importance of the turn lanes again is
to have a safe location for those turning movements to occur where somebody in the back of
them, that potentially not going to make that, not going to have a conflict there. So the idea is to
make the left hand turn movements get out of the through traffic and have a safe location for
those drivers to turn, allowing the through traffic to go by and allowing those turning movements
to occur in a faster, or quicker timeframe because you don’t have back up’s coming, having back
up’s in the intersection because of the through movements can’t make it because of the turning
vehicle so anytime you get more cars through that intersection, the quicker period of time you’re
going to have less conflicts. That’s the importance for the turn lanes.
Mayor Furlong: So for the layman, if I’m driving north on 101 behind Councilwoman Tjornhom
who’s trying to turn in, and unless I break the law and pass illegally on the right I’ve got to sit
behind her.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Once she does finally get to turn, then I’m accelerating to go but obviously my
average speed through that intersection has slowed significantly because I’m going from a stop
as opposed to just traveling at noted traffic.
Paul Oehme: Right, yep.
15
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Mayor Furlong: And anybody coming from the east, Pleasant View from the Eden Prairie side
or Pleasant View on the west is going to have to wait until I clear that intersection anyway,
whether I can do it easily and efficiently or whether I’m starting from a stop and moving
forward.
Paul Oehme: Exactly, and you know those delays getting it through the intersection, trying to
get the traffic to move through, you know at intersection you typically are not going 45 miles an
hour if they’re turning. If there’s cars there. You’re going to be slowing down a little bit
because you’re just going to feel a little bit confined in those intersections so if you’re paying
attention you’re probably going to get off the accelerator a little bit as well so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Any other questions? Yeah, Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: So I don’t think that the issue that Mr. Theis is concerned is really that
there’s a problem with the 101 traffic and the right hand turns. I think it’s more the concerns of
what does it do to the residents on Pleasant View because they’re actually going to watch for
traffic that’s going straight and they’re going to have to watch for traffic making those turns.
And actually I can see where that would be a problem but I’m, I’m curious as to what the traffic
is like coming off of Carver Beach Road onto Powers versus what the traffic is coming off of
Pleasant View onto 101. Is there comparable traffic there or that?
Mayor Furlong: You’re saying Carver Beach Road over on Powers Boulevard?
Councilwoman Ernst: Right.
Mayor Furlong: What that traffic count is?
Councilwoman Ernst: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: Do you have those?
Paul Oehme: Let’s see if I have those here. I know Powers Boulevard has, there it is. Has less
traffic than, less traffic than 101 so for example.
Councilwoman Ernst: And that was going to be my next question.
Paul Oehme: Yeah so on Powers Boulevard under the 2009 counts there’s 8,300 trips per day
approximately at the Pleasant View Road intersection and then on Pleasant View Road there’s
2,100, 2,150. 2,150 trips accessing onto Powers Boulevard.
Mayor Furlong: I’m sorry, is that at Lake Lucy? What’s the 2,150?
Paul Oehme: That’s at Pleasant View Road. I don’t have a count for Carver Beach Road.
Councilwoman Ernst: Oh.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, so that’s Pleasant View Road onto Powers Boulevard.
16
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Paul Oehme: Onto Powers Boulevard and then Powers Boulevard is 8,300 trips per day. So it’s
a factor you know, a factor of 20% less approximately.
Councilwoman Ernst: And how many on 101?
Paul Oehme: On 101 at Pleasant View is 10,600.
Mayor Furlong: And what are the, just to follow up on a question if I may Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Sure.
Mayor Furlong: Then the traffic coming off Pleasant View onto 101?
Paul Oehme: Pleasant View onto 101 is 3,250.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Now with the, and I guess to follow up with the improvements that
Carver County did to Powers Boulevard, which is a county road, we’ve talked before about the
left turn lanes adding at Lake Lucy Road but they did add left turn lanes or did they not at
Pleasant View as well?
Paul Oehme: They did add a left turn lane on Pleasant View as well.
Mayor Furlong: For southbound Powers Boulevard.
Paul Oehme: For southbound Powers and a right turn lane. They improved the right turn lane
on Powers Boulevard and Pleasant View Road, yep. Exactly.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. For the same, I’m assuming for the same reason is to get the turning
vehicles out of the through traffic.
Paul Oehme: Exactly. And I believe that’s 45 miles an hour.
Todd Gerhardt: Is there a right turn right now on Pleasant View going south on 101?
Paul Oehme: There’s no right turn on Pleasant View going south on 101.
Todd Gerhardt: Because that’s really what’s going to help you know those cars that are backing
up on Pleasant View because they’re waiting for the cars to make a left that want to go right, that
gives them the lane to go right to go south on 101. Where if the car is waiting for the traffic to
go south on 101, he may be in that center lane and wants to turn right and can’t go until those
cars get out of the way.
Mayor Furlong: So that’s your same mobility from cars on Pleasant View going south on 101.
Todd Gerhardt: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Improves at that right turn lane.
17
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Councilman Laufenburger: And the same thing holds true there, where there’s no right turn lane
if there are cars that are impatient they will veer off of that single lane. Veer over to the right,
much like the people who are going north on 101 will skidder around Bethany Tjornhom and
skidder into the, is there a right turn lane there?
Jim Theis: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: So they go into the right turn lane.
Mayor Furlong: Illegally pass.
Councilman Laufenburger: I think for me the issue is, I think mobility and visibility improve
safety. Anything that you do to help the traffic stay in their lines and then clear the intersection,
that contributes to the safety. I would agree with Mr. Oehme that as soon as you start seeing
congestion in there, then you, especially during the morning and the evening, you start seeing
people’s frustration. Oh gosh I’m going to veer to the right. How many times do people waiting
for Bethany to make that turn? By the way how long do you wait there? Is it like an hour?
Councilwoman Tjornhom Ask me how many times I do that a day?
Councilman Laufenburger: But as people back up behind Bethany making that turn, and I’m just
using you as an example Councilwoman Tjornhom. How many times do some of those really
impatient people decide to stick their front of their car over to the right and then obscure
somebody who’s already made the decision to get into that right lane.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Exactly.
Councilman Laufenburger: So visibility, mobility contribute to safety from my perspective.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And having things marked so you know where you should be, you
know? I’m going to turn left…
Mayor Furlong: No, that’s fine. I just want to make sure, we’re in a public comment period. Is
there anybody else that would like to provide public comment here before we continue on with
some of the comments from council? Okay, seeing nobody. Thank you for your comments Mr.
Theis and questions. I think they were very appreciated by me and the rest of the council. Other
comments then by, Councilwoman Ernst you were going to say something?
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah I just, and I agree with you. I think that you know to make that
traffic flow is a good thing. I think the issue comes in when you’ve got that straight through
traffic and you’ve got the right and the left hand turns. And that’s where it becomes potentially a
safety hazard.
Mayor Furlong: You’re saying right and left turn lanes on the through road?
Councilwoman Ernst: Right. When you have traffic going through and you have the.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, so north and south bound on 101 in this case.
18
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Councilwoman Ernst: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: You’re saying that the turn lanes on 101 are, decrease the safety?
Councilwoman Ernst: I’m saying when you put it all together, where you have the right and the
left hand turn lanes and you have the through traffic, those that are trying to get out on Pleasant
View, I’m not saying it’s a problem on 101. I’m saying it could potentially be a hazard for those
coming out of Pleasant View.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilwoman Ernst: Because that does, and I’m only saying that because of the experience that
we have on Powers Boulevard as well. But we don’t have the traffic on Powers that we do on
101.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme, do you have any indication of people who are, people
who traveling east on Pleasant View who have experienced the 101/Pleasant View intersection
and they want to travel north on 101 to get to 62. Do any of them go through Near Mountain
Boulevard, Cascade to go over up to Town Line Road? Is there access there?
Paul Oehme: There is access to Town Line Road.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: But it’s windy and.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, it’s very circuitous to get through there and I don’t know. I don’t know if
there’s, I haven’t heard of any cut through problem areas. I know there’s several stop signs
along the way to get out there.
Councilman Laufenburger: So there’s impediments too?
Paul Oehme: There’s impediments to make that movement I think.
Bob Ayotte: Not if you don’t stop signs and go right through.
Jim Theis: A lot of the people from Near Mountain up in that area where we’re talking do end
up going out that way. That’s how they told me so they weren’t concerned about the intersection
down there because they go out up on the north end but.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Theis, just for people watching at home. What I thought I heard you say
was that, was that residents in the neighborhood north of Pleasant View and west of 101 often
will go up to Town Line Road is what you’ve heard from people.
Jim Theis: Yes…
Mayor Furlong: Rather than coming down to Pleasant View and then turning back north and
that’s a reasonable traffic flow. I think that would make sense. Other comments on this? I
guess couple thoughts. And we all bring our experiences, good or bad experiences but our
19
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
experiences to these discussions. I think it was, it’s interesting with some of the data we
received tonight, especially looking at the traffic flow data in the evening. Rush hour period
which I think Councilwoman Tjornhom you mentioned. We’ve got, of the cars on the east and
west side of Pleasant View Road, on the Chanhassen side coming eastbound on Pleasant View to
101, there were 304 cars, listed vehicles listed and this is in the evening and only 48 cars coming
from the Eden Prairie side. In the morning it was about a 10 to 1 ratio. 222 coming from
Chanhassen side to that intersection and 28 so I say that because with the opportunities I’ve had
to meet and talk to residents over the years, since I’ve been in this position, even before I was in
this position, this intersection has always been for people who live in the area and drive Pleasant
View, has been an issue for Chanhassen and we need to work with so it doesn’t surprise me I
think that it’s this council that’s dealing with this and working with MnDOT based upon the
traffic counts. What I will say is I think from experience as well the improvements on Powers
Boulevard at Lake Lucy Road and Pleasant View Road, having driven those frequently, and the
intersection at 101 and Pleasant View, not as frequently but I do drive that way from time to
time, the improvements with the addition of the turn lanes on Powers Boulevard has been an
improvement. You know when we see a slide that says that there have no correctable accidents,
to me that speaks volumes. The adding in the left turn lanes at Powers Boulevard at Lake Lucy
Road, added in that extra lane of traffic that’s being discussed here. Because they’re already on
101. They’re already the right turn lanes as I understand so basically we’re slipping a left turn
lane inbetween. While you get the movements there and you have to look, it’s easier to identify
because cars are in specific lanes, it’s easier to identify as a driver what the other cars are doing.
Because they’re in the proper lane. The number of times that people passed on the right as
someone was turning left off northbound Powers onto Lake Lucy, were probably too numerous
to count. I mean it just happens so frequently. Even if it’s not happening as frequently based on
the number of cars going on here, clearly that’s a safety hazard so you know from what I hear
from the engineers, when MnDOT has standards that says this is an intersection that within the
metro area deserves improvements relative to all the other intersections that were looking at
obtaining this funding, and just from our own city’s experience that many of our residents have
and that we’ve seen on Powers Boulevard, I understand the concerns that have been raised but I
think it does make sense to go forward and improve this intersection. The other thing we’re
seeing is that this gives us the opportunity when the traffic counts adjust to the point that again
MnDOT looks at warrants for signaling this intersection. Once it, they’re not going to put a
signal where it’s not warranted because that’s going to cause more problems as I understand it
but by making these turn lane adjustments, when those warrants are available then the road will
be ready for those signals to be installed, if I’m not mistaken. So I think this is a step forward to
an intersection that has been, been on many people’s minds and desires for improvement for
many years and to the extent that you know there was a question raised about why we were
doing this. I think from a traffic standpoint there is improvement. I think it allows us to improve
our trail system as well and connection, and so I think it’s, I’d like to applaud it as a situation
where the City and MnDOT are working together. We always hear from people that our
government agencies or levels of government don’t work well together and I think this is another
example. We’ve seen a lot of that this last year. Powers Boulevard. We just mentioned that.
That’s a county road. Our engineering staff have been working with them for years and we were
able to work together to make improvements. Now we’re working with MnDOT. We’re
working with MnDOT on Highway 5 in coming years and so I think we need to continue to look
for these opportunities and to make incremental improvements to our transportation system when
those opportunities present themselves. With that we’ve been asked for two motions this
evening. I believe is that correct or am I, is it simply the first one?
20
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Paul Oehme: Just the first one I believe.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Is this the resolution here Mr. Laufenburger?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Came from Mr. Gerhardt.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. One of the, I guess what I’m hearing from staff here or seeing from staff
is that the resolution, there’s a request to change the resolution. Item number 2. To change that.
The second sentence in there we’ll finish with rather than the term at 7:00 p.m. on Monday,
nd
August 22, 2011 in the council chambers at City Hall, it’ll be changed to a date selected by the
City Engineer, and I’m sure that’s relating to the current State of Minnesota situation.
Todd Gerhardt: That gives the council and the City the most flexibility of when and if this
project moves ahead.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And so the flexibility with regard to the timing of the bidding of the
project.
Todd Gerhardt: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions on that change in the resolution? If not, that will be
the resolution that will be included in the motion. Councilman Laufenburger would you like to
make a motion?
Councilman Laufenburger: Be happy to do so Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Councilman Laufenburger: I move that the City Council approve the plans and specifications for
City Project #11-05, Trunk Highway 101 and Pleasant View Road intersection and authorize
advertisement for bids in accordance with the related resolution.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing
none we’ll proceed with the vote.
Resolution#2011-47: Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom
seconded that the City Council approve the plans and specifications for City Project #11-
05, Trunk Highway 101 and Pleasant View Road intersection and authorize advertisement
for bids in accordance with the revised resolution. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
21
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
PROPOSED WATER TOWER CONSTRUCTION LOCATED ON MINNETONKA
SCHOOL DISTRICT 276 PROPERTY, 6421 HAZELTINE BOULEVARD:
A. SITE PLAN REVIEW.
B. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS, AUTHORIZE
ADVERTISING FOR BID.
C. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF PURCHASE AND EASEMENT AGREEMENTS
WITH SCHOOL DISTRICT 276.
Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor, City Council members again. I’ll just give a brief background
again on the need for the water tower and some of the again the background associated with the
project itself so. The water tower proposed is in the high zone area which is kind of shown here
in the pink colored area. It’s approximately about 12% of the water service area within the
community itself right now. It’s a smaller area based upon the topography of the ground in this
area. Basically higher in elevation than the rest, the majority of the rest of the community to
obtain a balance pressure within the water system. This area is segregated from the rest of the
water distribution area to achieve a constant water pressure in this area so. The high zone
storage area, the high zone area in this area, there’s one tower that was built in 1971. It’s a 2,000
gallon tower. It’s on Melody Hills Road. Back then in 1970 the population was 4,800.
Approximately 4,800 in population. Today the city of Chanhassen is almost 23,000 in
population. Demand in this high zone area has been as high as 1.8 million gallons per day,
which is during our summer month periods where we see that high usage. Based upon that they,
you know talking with the Fire Marshal for the City, he likes to see a 2 hour fire flow for
residential areas in this area. There are also some commercial and some other businesses and
school up in this area but based upon his recommendation the fire flow of 2 hours is
recommended for this area. Based upon that information, the tank currently as it is today, trying
to meet those peak demand periods and also potentially using that same distribution system for
fire flows, it’s currently not adequate. It’s, the tank right now is too small for that capacity and
that need. Other incidences or other issues surrounding having a smaller storage tanks in the
distribution system is that when you hit those high demand periods your pumps and your motors
are always kicking off and on and cycling constantly and we can see upwards of 8-10 cycles per
day. From that standpoint it would be, the system becomes very inefficient. It’s hard on the
pumps and the motors to keep up with that type of demand and creates basically premature wear
on your pumps and your motors and also the tank because of the condensation that can be
attributed to the high cycling of the tank as well and the coatings of that tank. So another aspect
of needing additional storage up in this area is that for power outages, the City utility department
has to generate power to these wells and since there is very little storage in this area, the time it
takes to get a generator out to a well and have a standby generator up and running is quite small
timeframe before you know water pressure is significantly reduced so. Those are the type of
challenges that are associated with having a smaller water storage facility in this area. Based
upon the analysis that we’ve completed, both looking at what the current demand is, the fire flow
demands and then future demands of this area, future growth, we are estimating that the need of
a tank is about 750,000 gallons. So the staff has looked at you know several locations in order to
potentially site a new tower. Obviously we’d like to site it as close to or you know the existing
tower as we can. You know it basically comes down to land availability a lot of times too. Over
the last 2 years staff has looked at numerous sites. In the report that was brought before you
several months ago there were 6 sites that we specifically looked at. We also looked at
Minnewashta Regional Park as a potential site for a new tower and then also Herman Field Park.
22
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
None of these sites, both of those park facilities did not achieve or we could not get land for
siting a tower on, especially on Minnewashta Regional Park property and the Herman Field Park
was just, the elevation was, is just too low and it’d be very expensive to build a tower at that site.
So we did concentrate our efforts on the Minnetonka Middle School West property. We did
specifically look at 4 locations specifically and working with the school district on these 4 sites,
Site number 5 seemed to be the best location for several reasons. As shown on here it’s in the
southwest corner of the property and shown also on this slide as well. It’s kind of out in back of
the school. The school district really doesn’t use this particular piece of their campus for
recreational or other activities. There’s currently a storm water treatment pond on this location
so it seemed to be the best location to utilize in terms of less impacts to the school district. We
also looked at shadow potential impacts if a tower were to be built on this site. This drawing
kind of shows where the maximum shadow would be during different time periods during the
year. This is kind of an extreme case. Typically there’s, you need to look at well trees and other
buildings and other obstructions that would create additional shadows here so what this is really
it comes down to basically showing that most of the, if not all of the shadow impacts are going to
be more on the school property and not on, and on park property and not on more residential type
properties. We also looked at you know impacts to residential properties in terms of sight
distances and visual impacts. Again the southwest site is shown here. The nearest structure,
residential property, house per se is about 230 feet away from where the tower will be
constructed. The next nearest one is 395 feet away from that tower. The other locations that we
looked at are substantially closer to existing residential properties. So based upon you know that
study and what we’ve looked at in working with the school district representatives, that
southwest corner of the site seems to be least overall visual impacts to residents in this area, least
disruptive to the school operations and potentially future campus improvements as well and it
also allows for the City, a good hydraulic connection to our existing watermain. Trunk
watermain which is on 41 which would be easily tapped into. So based upon that information we
wanted to detail and looked at how the tower could be constructed on this site. Shown here is
where the existing pond is currently built. What staff has come up with in working with the
school district is to move that storm water treatment pond to the north into the hillside here a
little bit. Using that material to raise up the ground elevation in this location so the tower doesn’t
have to be built as high as well. There would be some 4 foot high retaining walls to facilitate
that grading work as well. These ponds are more dry ponds, which currently exists today for
better infiltration and storm water quality benefits as well. The storm water would be routed the
same location it is today into the Trunk Highway 41 ditch system here and then continue the
pond to the south. Again the watermain, trunk watermain, 18 inch watermain from the new
tower would be extended to the trunk watermain which is currently in the Highway 41 right-of-
way as well. The bituminous drive would connect from the school property driveway, existing
to the tower as well and the storm water again would be routed more or less to the same location
that it is today. And the water service to the school property would be connected into the new
watermain that is planned for the tower as well so it’s a little bit shorter route than it is today.
Landscaping, there are a few trees that would have to be removed in conjunction with the
project. We are planning to revegetate this area as well with spruce trees and maple trees for
screening purposes and for revegetation. And than again like I said, the pond itself would be
more or less a dry pond so it’d be able to be mowed in the future if necessary. Couple different
types of towers that staff has looked at and discussed. The preferred tower is the composite
tower which is concrete column with a steel bowl up on top. This seems to be very competitive
tower nowadays. A lot of these type of towers are being built in the metro area right now, and
it’s somewhat dependent on steel prices at the time of bidding. What the composite tower allows
23
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
you is a more cost effective or cheaper maintenance program down the road because you don’t
have to paint or maintain the concrete as much as you do the steel for a steel tank as we’re
showing here. The 41, on Trunk Highway 41 tank south of Highway 5 here. This is our second
choice in terms of tank type that we prefer to see out here. A little bit, probably more expensive
to build, construct and there’s probably some additional future maintenance costs down the road
again for the painting all the steel between you know 10 and 15 years out so. If the composite
tank was selected, this is the façade or the aesthetic treatment that we are proposing to put on the
tank. The column piece, it’s basically a form that goes around the tank. The concrete sets again
and then come back with a stain, a stained look after the concrete is set and the tower is
constructed. This is showing the cross section of the composite tank. Again the concrete walls
here would be potentially stained and then there would be a collar up on top here where
potentially antenna equipment would be connected to. Currently the Melody Hills tower does
have some cellular providers that utilize the throat or the column of the tank. Trying to
anticipate where that equipment would go. We’d like to try to have it all in one location and try
to hide it in terms of if it has to go on the column that’s, this is the location that we would
provide that. Also another benefit for these type of tanks is that you can include or store the
cellular equipment within the column itself so staff has made provisions to have the tank, cellular
equipment is stored inside on a more or less a mezzanine level. First floor and then there’s
provisions made to construct a second level if necessary. Right now there’s 3 providers at the
Melody Hills tower, tank. That equipment can easily stored and operated at this first level here
and then any future providers could move up to the second level. By including this cellular,
putting this cellular equipment inside a column or the tank itself, it eliminates the cellular
building, exterior buildings that you would have to have which is currently at the Melody Hills
tower, and then it also provides a quieter environment for the neighborhood on the, they
probably can be somewhat noisy. The air conditioning units can go in and off a lot of times and
with this type of design it’ll allow us again to put the equipment inside. It’s actually cooler so
those air conditioner units aren’t going off as often as well so there would be a separate access
door location for the cellular providers to access and so they can’t access the equipment or the
city equipment or access the tower. They’d have to go through a separate location to do that so.
Just wanted to show you a couple views of the tower itself. This is just again conceptual
drawings of what the location and the height of the tower would look like. Not per se the
aesthetics of it but this is an exhibit showing a rendering of what the tower would look like from
Trunk Highway 41 facing south right at the school entrance. Giving the perspective of how high
the tower will be and it’s situation on the campus. Here’s a view from Lake Lucy Road at
Highover Drive. Basically south of the school campus site. Again size and height is what we’re
trying to show you here. What it potentially would look like and then also from Highway 41 on
the south side of, or Highway 41 looking north, basically south of the school campus area. And
again from the school campus looking south, southwest at their parking lot location. So with that
the school, proposed schedule if this were to move forward. The bids opening is tentatively
th
scheduled for August 12. If we move forward from that City Council considers awarding a
nd
contract for the tower itself on August 22. Soil corrections and utility work would potentially
take place this fall with the construction of the actual tank and additional foundations and
improvements taking place, the majority of the improvements taking place the summer of 2012.
Painting again, hopefully we can get the painting in 2012. If not, 2013 and then the removal,
potential of Melody Hills tower would be thereafter. After the cellular tower equipment is
removed so the State shutdown does impact this project too. There is a couple permits that are
needed. One is the right to work in MnDOT right-of-way. We still would have to acquire that
and then the Department of Health permits as well for review of the tank is still needed as well
24
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
but we feel confident, or comfortable moving forward at this time, that we can get those permits
you know during or sometime around the bid opening process timeframe. Those permits are
somewhat easy to get so we’re looking at moving forward with this project if we could. With
that, the Planning Commission has reviewed the package and they have recommended moving
forward with the project as well.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Very good, thank you. Ms. Aanenson, anything from a staff report?
Kate Aanenson: I was just going to add that but Paul caught it so. Did a great job. We kind of
wove it together. It’s obviously very technical and Paul knows the project very well so we kind
of blended the two presentations and I just wanted to make sure that he did note that, which he
th
did. That the Planning Commission held a public hearing on the 24 of June and unanimously
approved it so, they just looked at the site plan portion so that’d be one of your actions would be
to approve the site plan with the conditions in there and then the other two would be the approve
the plans and specs and then the purchase of the easement and the school district.
Paul Oehme: Maybe I should just touch on the easement acquisition that’s necessary too. The
staff has worked with the school district on location again of the tower itself and the need for
additional easements, both permanent and then temporary construction easements as well, and
then egress easements occurring down the road as well so we can get our equipment in and out
and cellular providers through the school property since there is no access off of 41 directly, so
school district is working with us on that and they are anticipating to see the easement agreement
th
on August 4 for consideration. The purchase price for the easement acquisition’s $150,000.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff at this point.
Councilman Laufenburger: I have a couple Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme, you talk about the cell tower. We are leasing the
Melody Hill tower to carriers, is that correct?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: So we get monthly revenue or annual revenue from them. Do we
have commitments or do we know that they will move their lease arrangements to the proposed
new site?
Paul Oehme: The lease agreements that we’ve looked at, it’s stipulated in that, if the City can
provide an alternate site, which we think this is an alternate site, that they would have to remove
their equipment and move it to the new site based upon you know our maintenance of the tower.
Our aspect. If we want to take it down, I mean that’s something that’s our prerogative so.
Councilman Laufenburger: So and does, do they move that equipment, the antennas at their own
expense?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
25
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Councilman Laufenburger: Did I hear.
Laurie Hokkanen: Two of the three carrier’s conversation they have indicated that they would
definitely move. This isn’t an issue for them.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Laurie Hokkanen: So and I just haven’t talked to the third.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Laurie. Also what is the vertical height above
ground of the Melody Hill tower right now?
Paul Oehme: It’s approximately 130 feet above ground.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And I think it’s in here but just for the public, what’s the
vertical height of the proposed tower?
Paul Oehme: It’s 170 feet.
Councilman Laufenburger: 170 feet above ground.
Paul Oehme: Above ground, right.
Councilman Laufenburger: And that will put the level, the production level of the water at about
the same height, is that correct?
Paul Oehme: Yeah. It will be exactly the same.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions for Mr. Oehme at this time? Mr. Oehme, a couple
questions. If you could put the slide back up where you focused on the needs of the, or the
various listings. One of the things in this area, and then I’m probably going to have you also
look at the high zone slide. One of the things that we’re looking at is the population, Melody
Hill was built in 1971 as 200,000 gallons. If you can go to the high zone slide Ms. Aanenson.
Probably your comments here too. It would seem to me that a significant portion of the high
zone has developed since 1970. Just looking at these neighborhoods. You’ve got the Longacres
neighborhood in there and you’ve got the new ones by Westwood and Highover and.
Kate Aanenson: Pinehurst and.
Mayor Furlong: Even the properties to the east there, I would guess some of those have also
developed since, in the 80’s and 90’s since this.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
26
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Okay so Mr. Oehme, when we go back to the previous slide and you’re talking
about the current and future growth, a lot of that, it would seem to me that if in this high zone
much of it’s already been developed since the first tank was put in, that at some point that
200,000 gallon size reservoir was appropriately sized. We passed that some time ago, is that a
fair statement?
Paul Oehme: Absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: If we need 750 now.
Paul Oehme: Right. Absolutely. Yeah I mean currently really we’re not making our fire flow
demands and it’s hard on our equipment right now.
Mayor Furlong: Okay so, and I guess maybe going back to the high zone chart there. While
much of the development has occurred since this reservoir was put in, there isn’t as much to go
as already has been developed…
Kate Aanenson: I think that’s a true statement. I think what’s different about this, some of the
older parts that were built there probably didn’t put sprinkling systems and the like. You have a
different product type. A different expectation that’s out there and I think that reflects on the
peak demand that the City Engineer put up so those lots, some of those have swimming pools
and sprinkling systems so it’s a different type of product that’s out there than was probably built
in the 70’s so the demand.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, and I’m not questioning the decision of the prior council.
Kate Aanenson: No, no.
Mayor Furlong: I’m just saying in terms of the capacity of this.
Kate Aanenson: Exceed demand because of the desired housing type and uses was different.
Mayor Furlong: Have evolved as well as development.
Kate Aanenson: That’s my point, yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, and that’s very fair and thank you for sharing that because it seems to me
that the vast majority of the need for this tower is based upon current residents. Current
construction.
Paul Oehme: Absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: Even though any future discretion would just add to the lack of capacity of the
current tower.
Paul Oehme: Exactly.
27
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Is there any, when you talked about installing the cellular equipment inside the
tower structure itself, one of the things we talked about at our earlier work session was looking at
construction materials and looking at bid alternates for the different construction materials is
something that we just naturally will go out and do, even if we think it might be a certain type.
We’re going to look for the different types. Is there any change in the design if we went with
different types of construction materials or would it, would it still be constructed in a similar
manner with having all that cellular equipment internally of the structure?
Paul Oehme: No, we looked at both. Both the composite tank and the fluted column concrete,
or steel tank. Actually we visited the City of Minnetonka a couple weeks ago and they have the
same set-up that we’re looking at in terms of putting the cellular equipment in and they have a
fluted column tank. That steel tank that they put their equipment in so based, and you know for a
certain amount of structural standpoint, Doug Klamerus is here to talk, if you’d like to talk to
him about, from SEH about any structural designs related to that but we’re looking at again,
bidding out both types.
Mayor Furlong: I’m going to keep it at the high level. I don’t want to get into the design but my
question is, I like the concept of including that equipment inside the structure itself for the
reasons that you mentioned. And what I’m hearing is, regardless of construction materials we
can include that aspect.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, either type of tank that we’re looking at we can incorporate that cellular
equipment inside the tank.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, alright. Very good. And then Ms. Aanenson, on the site plan approval
process. We went through the Planning Commission. I always like to confirm this. Since the
City was the applicant, I assume we followed our own rules that we would expect a private party
to follow both in terms of the process and the reviews and.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Notified everyone within 500 feet, plus there was residents there that
were, you know the closest neighbor obviously has some concerns about visual impacts. There’s
people on the other side that were more excited to see it potentially move to a different location.
Paul Oehme: And Mr. Mayor, we did have a neighborhood meeting prior to the Planning
Commission meeting too and we invited more people than we were invited to the Planning
Commission meeting too so, so we try to get the notice out as best as we could.
Mayor Furlong: And this is a permitted use within the zone.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: So there wasn’t any changes, okay. If there are no other questions, I bring it to
council for comments. Thoughts. Observations. Oh, Mr. Gerhardt. You want to say
something?
Todd Gerhardt: Paul could you talk about, is there another water tower in the high zone that we
could utilize?
28
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Paul Oehme: Currently there’s only one tower within the high zone. That Melody Hills tower
that we’re referring to. That 200,000 gallon tank in the high zone.
Todd Gerhardt: And that’s the one that’s under capacity.
Paul Oehme: That’s the one that’s under capacity, correct.
Todd Gerhardt: We have other water towers in the community. Can we utilize any of those or
make those larger that could work in this area?
Paul Oehme: Not in this area. Our key financial, looking for it in our CIP has another tower in
the low zone as well for future demand. When basically area south of 5 develop. We don’t have
the ability right now to pump water from the low zone up into the high zone because this area is
segregated. It’s such, it’s so much higher in elevation than the other parts of town so that’s the
dilemma that we have. We just really can’t utilize the water from the low zone area into the high
zone because basically if we open the valve from the high zone down to the low zone, all the
water’s going to run to the low zone so we’re kind of stuck with what we have right now.
Mayor Furlong: And the high zone is as much a, it’s a function of topography.
Paul Oehme: It is, absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: It’s elevation.
Paul Oehme: It’s elevation.
Mayor Furlong: It’s the glacier’s fault.
Paul Oehme: We just can’t have one…
Councilman Laufenburger: Blame Mother Nature.
Councilman McDonald: Excuse me Mr. Mayor, if I could just add. I thought at one time one of
the reasons for putting in the second water treatment plant was that would then give us the cross
connect.
Paul Oehme: It would. Yeah, it would definitely give us a cross connect but again it’s that
storage capacity need and then when we get the future water treatment plant then we’ll have a
little bit, a lot better ability to utilize.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah to go between zones but for right now we don’t have that ability
at all.
Paul Oehme: Exactly.
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman Laufenburger.
29
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Councilman Laufenburger: Two follow-up questions. Can you talk a little bit about the safety
of these water towers? For example I think back to my childhood growing up in Waconia and
there was a water tower, obviously. I mean it was conspicuously built no more than 50 feet away
from a house right below it and the water tower exploded in the winter and water fell down on
this home. What’s to prevent that from happening with these?
Paul Oehme: Well.
Councilman Laufenburger: First of all there’s no house immediately below it at this location,
right?
Paul Oehme: Exactly. It’s like I showed on the different slide, the nearest house is 230 feet
away. There is a storm water conveyance system that we designed. I can show you that too here
for any overflow of the water in the tank, if we have a spillage or anything else. The water does
end up in the storm sewer system as well, and then it ends up in the pond here.
Councilman Laufenburger: Into the 41.
Paul Oehme: Exactly. So there’s some safety mechanisms there as well. In the wintertime, you
know in the past we’ve had some freezing problems but it’s the operators, utility operators
objective during the winter months to bounce those tanks as much as you can. Once the water
gets stayed.
Councilman Laufenburger: Bound the tanks.
Paul Oehme: Bound the tanks.
Councilman Laufenburger: What does that mean?
Mayor Furlong: The water level.
Paul Oehme: Bounce the water level, yeah. Move the water level up and down the column.
Councilman Laufenburger: I’m not a water engineer so.
Paul Oehme: As much as you can.
Councilman Laufenburger: I mean I drink water but I just don’t know that much about the
engineering.
Paul Oehme: Yeah so we try to move that water up and down as much as we can so we don’t
have that stagnant water that has the ability then to freeze.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Second question. I’m reading that this water tower is going
to cost 2 million dollars roughly. What’s the immediate impact on the citizens of Chanhassen or
the high zone specifically related to their water bill as a result of this?
30
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Paul Oehme: There is no immediate impact. This facility improvement project has been planned
for several years. It’s, a lot of, the majority of the cost for the tank is built into those connection
fees for new houses, new developments. There’s some cost associated with current water usage
but it’s built in. It’s been budgeted for and.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright, thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Other questions. Discussion then. Thoughts. Comments
on the proposal in front of us.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I think the best comment was made probably by the Planning
Commission that said that you know they were doing this for a reason of public safety and a
provision to keep water capacity for the northwest part of the city that I think pretty much says it
all. That that’s why they’re doing it for public safety and it’s been in the works for a while and
it’s a part of, we just had a work session about disasters and being prepared and I think this is
part of that also. Being prepared for whatever happens to our citizens and making sure that we
as a council and as a city make sure that everyone is protected and can adequately be protected
and this water tower helps at least our fire department do that.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Others thoughts, comments. The one request that we received, we
did receive a request from Mr. Clark. He spoke I know at the Planning Commission. He had
sent a request that’s included in the packet. I guess I’d be interested in council members
comments or thoughts. I know the City has had discussions with Mr. Clark and has been
working with him to try to mitigate some of his concerns, is that correct Mr. Oehme?
Paul Oehme: Right, and we’re still planning to work with him to try to address his concerns the
best we can.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Any thoughts or, I’m sorry. Any thoughts or comments from the
members of the council for direction to staff in that regard.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I think I feel comfortable letting staff still continue to talk to him and
negotiate, and then it will come to us I’m sure if they can’t work it out.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. That sounds fine. Thank you. If there are no other comments
we have three items before us this evening. I assume Mr. Knutson we can take all three of those
in a single motion.
Roger Knutson: That is correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: To get the most flexibility in the resolution, instead of putting a specific date
award of bid, if we can say basically a future City Council meeting. That would be nice. I think
nd
we have August 22. With the State shutdown we need the health department approval on the
design of this so whatever flexibility we can have in waiting for that approval.
31
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Mayor Furlong: I don’t want to go backwards but do we have some people here that might want
to provide some public comment on this issue or not?
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, we have representatives from the Minnetonka School District here.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening. Please come forward. And I apologize for skipping by that part.
Paul Bourgeois: That’s okay. Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of the council. I’m Paul
Bourgeois. I’m the Executive Director of Finance and Operators for Minnetonka Public Schools.
Mayor Furlong: Welcome.
Paul Bourgeois: Thank you. Just want to say that we’ve been actually very pleased to be
working with Paul and Todd and the city staff on this project. I think it’s a good solution. It’s
going to help all the people in the area and we serve all the citizens together so we appreciate.
We think it’s going to be a nice improvement to the public safety aspects of the area and then as
far as the dollars that we’re going to be using, we’re actually applying those, it’s kind of twofer
for the community. We’re applying those to help pay for the tennis courts that we have under
construction up at the middle school. We have over 100 girls typically going out in the spring
and almost 100 boys in the fall playing tennis and so we’re replacing 2 broken down courts and
basically then adding 5 for a total of 7 so they can have middle school meets that are the
equivalent of a Minnesota State High School League meet as the program grows. So it’s going
to be available for the students but it’s also going to be available then for the public so we hope
everybody gets up there and grabs a racket and goes knock a ball around a little bit.
Mayor Furlong: Excellent. Very good, thank you.
Paul Bourgeois: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you for being here and those comments. We appreciate it.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. I’d just like to thank School District 276 for their support in
this. What an excellent collaboration. Mike and Paul have been great to work with. Dr.
Peterson. We went to the school board and presented our plan. They were very supportive and
thank you guys for all your support in this and what a perfect collaboration. I mean really this is
the only location we can have this and they didn’t use that against us in appreciation for the land
so, you know I make that comment.
Mayor Furlong: Well it’s not over yet so.
Todd Gerhardt: So we really appreciate our partnership with the school district and it’s great
when you get two government agencies working together.
Mayor Furlong: Very good, thank you. Appreciate those comments and we echo those
statements of gratitude as well so thank you. Any other comments or thoughts on this? If not,
getting back to where I was a few minutes ago. We do have 3 motions in front of us that can be
considered in a single motion if members of the council are in agreement. Would somebody like
to make a motion please?
32
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Councilman Laufenburger: I’ll try it Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: I would, I move that the Chanhassen City Council approve the site
plan for water tower located at Minnetonka Middle School West, plans prepared by SEH dated
July 11, 2011 subject to the conditions of the staff report and adoption of the Findings of Fact.
And move that the City Council approve the plans and specifications and authorizes advertising
for bids for a new water tower located on Minnetonka School District 276 property, 6421
Hazeltine Boulevard in accordance with the resolution as modified by Mr. Gerhardt removing
the specific date. And third, move that the City Council approve an agreement for purchase of
the easements for a water tower with School District 276 on the Middle School West property
contingent upon the school district approving the agreement and the City Council approving a
contract for construction of the water tower.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Motion’s been made. Is there a second?
Councilman McDonald: I’ll second.
Mayor Furlong: Councilman McDonald seconds the motion. Any discussion on the motion?
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, I have one comment for the attorney. Will that easement agreement
give us the flexibility for some reason we don’t award bid that that contingency’s in there?
Roger Knutson: Yes. We’re only approving it contingent upon us using that piece.
Todd Gerhardt: Okay, good.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other discussion on the motion? Hearing none we’ll proceed
with the vote.
Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the City Council
approve the site plan subject to the conditions of the staff report and adoption of the
attached findings of fact and recommendation. The recommended conditions of approval
are as follows:
1.The pedestal shall be painted sky blue if a steel shell, or if constructed of a composite
concrete material shall be stamped with architectural patterns to mimic block or brick.
2.The light fixture shall have a 90-degree cut-off angle and be shielded from off-site view.
3.Haul routes must be established for the trucking of material off the site.
4.A building permit is required for the retaining walls since they will be at least four feet high.
5.The retaining walls must be designed by an engineer registered in the State of Minnesota.
33
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
6.The following additional information must be shown on the grading plan:
a)Show the top and bottom of wall elevations.
b)Provide more spot elevations along the driveway and the area to the north of the
driveway, ensuring that minimum 1% grade is achieved on paved surfaces and minimum
2% grade is achieved in the green area.
7.A plumbing permit is required for the proposed sewer relocations.
8.Contact the Utility Department at 952-227-1300 a minimum of 48 hours before tapping into
the existing watermain.
9.MnDOT permits are required for the proposed watermain and storm water pond outlet pipe.
10.Tree protection fencing shall be installed at the edge of the grading limits.
11.A building permit is required.
12.Geotechnical investigation and report required.
13.All plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the State of
Minnesota.
14.Portions of retaining wall(s) exceeding four feet in height must be professionally designed.
15.The owner and or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division to discuss plan
review and permit procedures.
16.If the total disturbance exceeds one (1) acre in area an NPDES General Stormwater Permit
for Construction Activities will be needed from the MPCA.
17.If an NPDES Permit is needed, a Storm Water Pollution Prevention Plan will need to be
prepared and submitted for review and the conditions of the permit must be met.
18.The outlet to the right-of-way for MN Trunk Highway 41 will need to be stabilized
immediately upon connection.
19.The pond must be protected from sedimentation to the greatest extent practicable during
construction and all sediment deposited during construction must be removed to return the
pond to the design conditions. A record drawing shall be prepared showing this condition to
be met.
20.The plan must address the comments from the Carver County SWCD.
21.The proposed conditions will result in a decrease in runoff rate for the 2, 10 and 100-year
events and an increase in total phosphorus and suspended solids removal.
34
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
22.The underdrain bedding material shall be washed river rock wrapped in a high-flow filter
fabric.
23.According to the Carver County Soil Survey and double ring infiltrometer tests performed by
the School District, this site may well be conducive to infiltration. To this end an additional
hold down should be constructed below the underdrain such that the feature is a
filtration/partial recharge feature as described in the Minnesota Stormwater Manual.
24.Eliminate CBMH 109 and bulkhead the outlet from the upstream structure to the west. Move
CBMH 107 to the east into the location of the existing manhole. Replace this structure as
needed and outlet to the pond. The end result will be a single outlet point into the first cell
near the pinch point of the 1035-foot contour.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Resolution#2011-48: Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilman McDonald seconded
that the City Council approve plans and specifications and authorizes advertising for bids
for a new water tower located on Minnetonka School District 276 property, 6421 Hazeltine
Boulevard with the amendment that award of bid be at a future City Council meeting
rather than specifically August 22, 2011. All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the City Council
approve an agreement for purchase of easements for a water tower with School District 276
on the middle school west property contingent upon the school district approving the
agreement and the City Council approving a contract for construction of the water tower.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you everyone and appreciate all the efforts on this. Look forward to
seeing this back again. With that we’ll move now to Council Presentations. Thank you
gentlemen.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS:
Mayor Furlong: Any presentations for the council?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom and then Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Sorry.
Councilwoman Ernst: No, go ahead.
th
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’ll just say that the 4 of July was once again, it was a good time to
be in town. Couldn’t go to a State Park but you could certainly come to Chanhassen, and that
was a good thing. I especially was really impressed with the coverage that the news gave us,
with what the American Legion did. That was very touching and it was very heartfelt I thought.
35
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Their appreciation they showed to the families and children of our officers serving, protecting us
overseas and so I’m always so proud to live here but I think I was even more proud being here
that day and then watching it on the news that night. So I just want to thank everybody in
th
Chanhassen for another well done event for the 4 of July.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: So with that I just really wanted to thank Todd and city staff for the great
th
job that they did on the 4. Made it another successful year. And really to Councilwoman
Tjornhom’s point, honoring the children of the parents that serve overseas was very emotional
for me and seeing them in the parade and seeing our residents stand and applaud them. That was
very awesome. And also I just want to thank Mediacom for the coverage that they gave with
putting the whole thing together. As I understand it they’re going to be making a DVD and
sending that to the men and women serving the country so.
th
Mayor Furlong: Any other comments on the 4 of July? I would concur with the comments
made already. I’d also like to recognize the number of different civic organizations that were
involved. Todd and his staff. John especially do a great job there but I think they’d be the first
to say that without organizations such as the Chamber of Commerce, the Rotary, all the
restaurants that participate in the Taste of Chanhassen, the people that participate in the Classic
Car, obviously the parade itself is put on by the Rotary with participation of 80 to 90 different
groups. It truly is a city wide event and the numbers bear that out in terms of the attendance
numbers. I had unsolicited multiple comments this year from residents who were so pleased to
be a part of it. You know thanking the City for all that they did and all the other organizations
saying you know we used to go out of town. Now we don’t anymore because we know that
we’re leaving more behind when we leave than by staying here and so I think that’s really a
th
credit to how the event has grown over the years to really be a reason to stay in town for the 4
of July and it’s a credit to everybody involved. Clearly city staff. Carver County Sheriff’s
office. I know fire department is very active and there’s just so many people as we all know. I
know I’ve missed somebody by not saying them but if I missed you we appreciate your efforts
too to whatever purpose so really just a great event. Now the 2 day event has become 3 and it
continues to grow and expand so to everybody involved, thank you. Thank you council
members for your comments there as well.
Todd Hoffman: It's back to 3. It was 3 for quite a number of years.
Mayor Furlong: Back to 3? Well now I’m dating myself. Now I’m dating myself.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor just, I would like to thank all city staff. Everybody that you mentioned
and they work very hard. Volunteer firemen. The sheriff’s office had a big presence this year
and I know there were a lot of volunteers there too that gave their time and gave up their
th
Saturday and Sunday to work that 4 and they enjoyed it you know. When I talked to them, they
like working the event and you know so that’s good and the key thing was, is nobody was hurt.
You know safety was just perfect. We had the right amount of people out there and we did have
the tent go down on the Friday night winds but that was, there was nobody underneath it so that
was a good thing and they had it back up by noon on Saturday so it was just a great event and a
safe event.
36
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other presentations? One comment that I’ll make in having
conversations with Mr. Gerhardt regarding upcoming agenda items. Currently our, a number of
items for our next scheduled meeting at the end of July, or second July meeting is very limited
and it would be my expectation to cancel that meeting just due to lack of items and moving
things forward to August meeting. The one thing that I will say that might change that, and I
hate to put this, would be is, depending upon the progress of information being received with
regard to the lake associations and that issue because that is, it’s an issue we’ve been working
with for a number of weeks, and it’s been going into months now and there are a number of
questions that need to be answered, as you heard earlier this evening, and I know Mr. Gerhardt
and his staff will continue to work with them, but to the extent that it gets to the point that we
believe it’s appropriate and to get it in front of council, that we have answers to some of those
questions, we may have a meeting there and I would just ask some flexibility by members of the
council if we do call that meeting. We’ll try to let you know as soon as possible but at this point,
you know we try not to have meetings if we don’t need them and right now there just aren’t
enough agenda items that make sense.
th
Councilman Laufenburger: That would be the July 25 meeting.
Mayor Furlong: That’s correct. That’s correct so, with that Mr. Gerhardt, administrative
presentations.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
Todd Gerhardt: Just wanted to give you a quick update on our street projects. Timberwood will
be paved no later than next week. Santa Vera finished the removal for the mill and overlay in
that area. Paving should occur probably later next week. Tuesday at the earliest. And then they
th
will start the milling on July 19 in the downtown area. That would be the area basically west of
Market Boulevard in front of Target and Byerly’s, all the way down to Office Max. So with the
expectation of having it pretty much all buttoned up here by the end of July.
Councilwoman Ernst: Mr. Gerhardt?
Mayor Furlong: Yes, questions.
Councilwoman Ernst: Mr. Gerhardt, I just want to thank Paul for his follow-up. I know I had
some concerns on the Audubon project and I brought those to your attention. I actually went out
there and drove it myself just to see what kind of problems they were having and anyway thank
you for going out there and following up on that one. I think we addressed all their safety
concerns so.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. And there’s some sight line traffic moved a little closer to a resident that
had concerns. Paul met with them. You know it’s, we’re limited of what we can do in that area
and so you know Paul met with them. Talked with them and we’re trying to work out what we
can do. That’s all I have.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Other questions for Mr. Gerhardt.
37
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION.
Councilman Laufenburger: Twins fans will be happy.
Mayor Furlong: Yes Mr. Councilman Laufenburger, would you like to say why.
Councilman Laufenburger: Well Mediacom has reached agreement with Fox Sports North to
now broadcast those, what are identified as surcharged games so I would hope that Mediacom
subscribers are now happy because they can see all the Twins games and since the Twins will
likely win the Central Division this year, even though they’re 7 games back. It’s a fairy tale
season Mayor Furlong. Red Birds and all.
Mayor Furlong: Somehow we had to get the Red Birds in there on Mediacom. I’m not quite
sure.
Todd Gerhardt: How did the Red Birds do at the Chanhassen, City of Chanhassen and
appreciation game?
Councilman Laufenburger: Despite the fact that Mayor Furlong threw.
Mayor Furlong: Where’s my gavel?
Councilman Laufenburger: No.
Todd Gerhardt: It was straight down the middle.
Councilman Laufenburger: He just pitched it right down the middle. The Red Birds had a
wonderful evening and the Red Birds beat St. Peter 2 to 1 so Mr. Hoffman, I know St. Peter is
your stomping grounds but we had to stomp on the St. Peter Saints that night.
Todd Hoffman: Close but a little further.
Mayor Furlong: It was a great evening and a great turnout by city staff and representatives from
Carver County I think everybody was there, it looked like they were all having a great time so
thank you to the Red Bird organizations for their hospitality.
Councilman Laufenburger: I’ll extend that thanks to them.
Todd Gerhardt: And Lake Hazeltine is in the Chanhassen area.
Mayor Furlong: Former Chanhassen township. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Mayor I do have a comment to Councilman Laufenburger’s comments
with regards to the pitch that the mayor made. I don’t know what that was but I can tell you that
he did get the option to sing if you remember correctly.
Mayor Furlong: That is correct.
38
Chanhassen City Council - July 11, 2011
Councilwoman Ernst: You didn’t take that one too well either.
Mayor Furlong: He did not but I’m glad my gavel is still close. It was a great evening and the
th
7 inning stretch everybody joined in singing that so it was good. Good. Other comments this
evening in the correspondence packet, or any other comments? Thank you. If no, if there’s
nothing else to come before the council this evening, is there a motion to adjourn?
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman McDonald seconded to adjourn the meeting. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City Council
meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
39