2. Shamrock Ridge-Request to Reconsider Preliminary Site Gradingi
CITY OF a
CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739
TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager
FROM: Bob Generous, Planner 11
DATE: November 23, 1994
SUBJ: Reconsideration of the Motion Made on Shamrock Ridge Regarding
Topography
At the November 14, 1994 City Council meeting, City Council approved a motion to
reconsider the topography and proposed grading on the site. Specifically, City Council
requested that the south and north Lake Lucy Road alignments in relation to the existing
grades be evaluated, that visual presentations of these relationships be provided, and that the
impacts of the proposed grading plan on the knoll and valley areas be reviewed.
City staff, Bill Engelhardt, Chuck Plowe, and Frank Kelly met on Wednesday, November 16,
1994, to discuss the city's concerns regarding the plat. Additionally, staff suggested some
alternative ways for the applicant to address the concerns raised by City Council in response
to the reconsideration of the plat including undertaking an analysis which would justify either
one alignment or the other for Lake Lucy Road based on minimization of site grading or
preservation of knolls within the site, or providing private drives from Jennifer way to service
properties in the western 1/3 of the site.
Chuck Plowe and Bill Engelhardt met on Monday, November 21, 1994, to review a revised
grading plan that would skirt the knoll within the northern 1 /3rd of the site and follow the
southern alignment for across to the abutting property. Based on their review of this
alternative, this alignment does not "change or reduce the amount of cut on the site or
through this knoll" (see attached letter from William R. Engelhardt dated November 22,
1994).
Attached for City Council's review are letters from Charles W. Plowe and William Engelhardt
dated November 22, 1994, minutes from the November 14, 1994 City Council meeting, a
cut/fill analysis of the proposed grading plan, a revised partial grading plan which attempts to
avoid the northern knoll and follow the southern Lake Lucy Road alignment, and a cut/fill
analysis of the revised partial grading plan.
1
MEMORANDUM
Don Ashworth
November 23, 1994
Page 2
t
On November 23, 1994, the Mayor, Kate Aanenson, Dave Hempel, Ed Ryan and Chuck '
Plowe met to discuss the issues raised by the Council regarding grading of the plat. Staff
requested that the applicant consider modifications to the plat to minimize grading. One
alternative suggested was moving the western edge of Lake Lucy Road further to the south.
Staff is aware that there are poor soil conditions adjacent to the wetland edge. If these lots
could be eliminated, possibly this portion of Lake Lucy Road could be moved to the south. '
This would preserve more of the topography in Outlot B. The applicant is going to consider
this proposal and will be prepared to discuss this at the Council meeting.
Attachments
1. Letter from Charles W. Plowe, P.E. to Kate Aanenson, Planning Director dated '
11/22/94
2. Letter from William R. Engelhardt to the City of Chanhassen dated 11/22/94
3. Cut/Fill Analysis by Charles W. Plowe Revised 10/17/94 ,
4. Revised Partial Preliminary Grading Plan by Charles W. Plowe Revised 10/17/94
5. Cut/Fill Analysis of Revised Partial Preliminary Grading Plan by Charles W. Plowe
Revised 10/17/94 0 1
6. City Council Minutes of November 14, 1994
a
i
r
NOU -22 -1994 14 :15 FROM E.G. RUD & SONS TO 9375739 F.02
CHARLES W. PL-OWE, CONSULTING ENGINEER
9180 LEXINGTON AVE. N.E. CIRCLE PINES, MN 55014
(612) 785 -1043 FAX 786 -6007
November 22, 1994
Kate Aanenson, City Planner
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhas.�en, Mn 55317
Re: SHAMROCK RIDGE
Dear Ms. Aanenson,
Bill Engelhart and I met on Monday, November 21st to review and discuss the uut -fills with an
alternative Lake Lucy Road alignment Iocated on the south side of the knoll.
We concurred that this alignment does not improve the net impact on the knoll.
Please call with any questions or comme= rogarding the abovo.
Sincerel )
Charier W. Plowe, P -E.
CWP /zs
WILLIAM R. ENGELHARDT ASSOCIATES, INC.
110 HAZELTINE BOULEVARD.
CHASKA, MINNESOTA 55318
(612) 448 8838
November 22, 1994
City of Chanhassen '
Attn: Ms. Kate Aanenson
109 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, MN. 55317
RE: Shamrock Ridge ,
Dear Ms. Aanenson: I
Pursuant to the city's request, I met with Mr. Charles Plowe, the
engineer preparing the preliminary plat for the above subdivision.
Mr. Plowe presented a contour plan for an alignment of Lake Lucy
Road circumventing the high knoll in the middle of the property.
Their original plan showed the roadway system going through or over
the knoll. The alignment presented does not, in my opinion, change '
or reduce the amount of cut on the site or through this knoll.
This alignment places Lake Lucy south in the location of the slope
in the northwest corner of the property and flips the proposed lots '
south of Lake Lucy to the north slope. By doing this, more grading
is required on the slope when constructing building pads in that
area.
I suggested that they may be able to reduce the cut on the south
knoll on the property by constructing a cul -de -sac at the top of
the knoll in lieu of a through street ending at the Carlson '
property. Mr. Plowe indicated he attempted this alignment in a
previous sketch but found the fills to the western low area stretch
farther west into the low area. He did say he would look at this
possibility again. '
As everyone knows, this site is difficult not only because of the
elevations, but also because of the balance of dirt on the site. '
As you reduce cuts in one area, additional depth of cuts in other
areas are needed.
This is a very brief overview of the site based on the information '
provided by Mr. Plowe. If you desire to discuss this review,
please call at your convenience.
Very truly yours,
WILLIAM R. ENGELHARDT ASSOCIATES, INC.
William R. Engelh rdt
WRE /las '
�J
FJ
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 14, 1994
Mayor Chmiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilman Wing, Councilwoman Dockendorf, and
Councilman Mason
COUNCIL MEMBERS ABSENT: Councilman Senn
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Mayor Chmiel indicated the item number 2 was deleted from the agenda per the
applicant's request Councilman Wing moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to approve the agenda with
the following changes: Item l (d) was pulled per the staffs request, and Councilman Mason wanted to discuss
Shamrock Ridge under Council Presentations. All voted in favor of the agenda as amended and the motion
carried.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to approve the
folloiN ing Consent Agenda items pursuant to the Cite Manager's recommendations:
a. Brenden Ponds, Located North of Highwa} 5, East of Highway 41 and South of Minnetonka Middle School
West.
1) Final Plat Approval and Final Reading of an Ordinance Rezoning the Property from RR to RSF.
2) Approve Plans and Specifications and Development Contract, Project 94 -17.
e. Resolution 0094 -117: Accept Street and Storm Drainage Improvements in Windmill Run, Project 93 -3.
f. Resolution 094 -118: Accept Street and Storm Drainage Improvements in Oak Ponds First Addition, Project
93 -9.
' i. Approval of Bills.
j. Cite Council Minutes dated October 24, 1994
Planning Commission Minutes dated October 19, 1994
Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated September 27, 1994
k. Request for a Christmas Tree Sales Lot, East Side of Festival Foods, Chanhassen Lions Club.
1. Resolution #94 -119: Rate Regulation Resolution, Technical Amendment, Cable TV
m. Resolution #94 -120: Approve Change Order No. 1, Well No. 7, Project 94 -3.
All voted in favor and the notion carried.
1
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Cite Council Meeting - November 14, 1994
B RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ADVANCED RIGHT -OF -WAY ACQUISITION L OAN FUND (RALF) ,
APPLICATION SUBMITTAL, HOLASEK PROPERTY.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: In 1(b), I understand we're purchasing property at $30,000.00 an acre. Isn't this '
outside the MUSA line?
Don Ashworth: I don't believe that it is.
,
MaN or Chmiel: I think it's an ink is it not?
Council« oman Dockendorf: It's a what?
'
Ma-,or Chmiel An inkle.
Councilman Mason That's a card term Ms. Dockendorf.
'
Councilwoman Dockendorf If you can tell me it's inside the MUSA line, I'll accept that price.
'
Don Ashv orth Udell, it's not inside the MUSA. It can be served by sanitar<' sewer. Tell you what, let's pull
this item and I can get that ansv eyed for our neat meeting.
Okay.
'
Councilwoman Dockendorf:
Mai or Chmiel Alright, v ould you like to make a motion to carry it over for the next meeting?
'
CouncilN�oman Dockendorf I move to table item 1(b).
Councilman Mason Second.
'
Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded to table the resolution authorizing advanced
right -of -hay acquisition loan fund (RALF) application submittal for the Holasek property' until the neat Cite
'
Council meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
1(Q. AMENDMENT TO CM CODE RELATING TO THE CONTROL AND PREVENTION OF DUTCH
ELM DISEASE AND OTHER ARBOREAL DISEASES Wrn-11N THE CITY, FINAL READING: AND
'
APPROVAL OF A SUMMARY ORDINANCE FOR PUBLICATION PURPOSES.
Councilman Mason: I don't have an) trouble with this at all. My only concern is, in the analysis we talk about,
'
it mentions in there that we cannot go beyond the State Statute Section 13 -35(f) for including deferments or
delay of payments and any deviation from the intention and wording of the statute is a violation. Can't city
ordinance supersede State Statute?
'
Don Ashv orth: No.
Councilman Mason: Well we can go, like for environmental law.
'
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Cin Council Meeting - November 14, 1994
' Mavor Chmiel: We can be as it is. You can't be less lenient. You can be more stringent than what you
normally would want, right?
Councilman Mason: Okay, I guess my question is, we had talked about we want the ability to be able to defer
for financial hardship and State Statute is saying we can't do that. I guess that's not a question but. Okay, I
don't understand why we can't do that. I mean because we don't have the Statute in front of us but I guess I'm
assuming that the State Statute says that you can't let anyone defer a payment on something like this and I don't
' get it.
Don Ashworth: I'm trying to recall why. I know that Roger has consistently taken the position that you cannot
provide a deferment other than those provided under State Statute which gets into really the elderly classification
and there's certain income guidelines.
' Mavor Chmiel Those were the additional items that we did put into this though.
Don Ashs \orth But I don't recall why. This one has gone several meetings. Why don't we pull this as well
' Councilman Mason Yeah. I have no intention of killing the ordinance or anything like that.
Don Ash%\ orth Right. I understand the question. I just don't have the answer.
' Ma\ or Chmiel The other part of that one that I wanted to pull that one Mike is the fact that under Section 13-
28, again the discussion that we had at the time at Council indicated that we were going to make a change in
that and that position as it reads, position created. Position of a full or part time city forester. I think we
' indicated that the position of a part time or intern city forester or tree inspector is hereby created within the city
and that has not been corrected and I want that to go on record that that is out and to read as in there.
Councilman Mason: Yeah, part time, yeah. That's correct.
Mavor Chmiel A part time or intern.
Councilman Mason So I'll move to table item 1(c) until the next meeting.
Mavor Chmiel: Oka` , I'll second it.
Councilman Mason moved, Mayor Chmiel seconded to table the second and final reading of the Amendment to
the City Code relating to the control and prevention of Dutch Elm Disease and other Arboreal Diseases within
the city until the nest City Council meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
I (D) A CCEPT UTILITY IMPROVEMENTS IN SHENANDOAH RIDGE, PROJECT 93 -20.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, they pulled that one themselves. So let's have a motion to table that, item (d).
Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Wing seconded to table accepting the utility improvements in
Shenandoah Ridge per the staff's request All voted in favor and the motion carried.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
9
City Council Meeting - 1 °,vember 14, 199
probably spent more time and '
SEl`TA�pNS: I've P Carlson and in
CpUNC� pRE llowever I thtr'1`> with Jerome uestions
a no at this time And I think to talktn8 ink fairly important q
ason. I'm not making e I th
Councilman M almost 4 y ear tenure. vall
more ang eys. N°` I will also freely
v '
of a copy of this. He does I believe
raise some
e .
st on this issue than in m, of some elhardt and lerom
believe you all g k and filling with B
the letter he sent and I e out there also about losing the
grading- And about the loss of the w o has beed th n of those Eng se concerns
about g W a n on reconsideration is if
som notion ,
I've talked Richard I believe, that Richard shaCOns. r making
admit that I' ' d w shares, wa I would even with.
And I know Richard The only }' dealt
Deck. in t h e Valley's' issue that is being
a bsolutely
knolls and filling
it is made clear that that is the only'
en to those knolls and '
Which is wh y is going to haPP W e've gone far
Councilman
Wing and what exactl deal. I think oing to read
grading not g
� en;thing else is a done ` of it, I m '
M Which is the issue °f g concerned e ' as gone has a P.'
Councilman uite honestly, as far as Irn an d as long last minute. There was some one's to
those valley s 1, q -Jerome, in his letter, formation at the very n ot saying
But 1 do think that • grading inform the Ryans, and I'mh as I should have for this
enough but „e did get that g and the engineer for rap y as o pposed '
tnutes the con pic ture of the toP°g B I,
it into the M complete a p I can let it go B with the
ent between sultant as comp we had
't know that 1 have that feels that way,
disagreem but I don the only one to have a little discussion
blame or anything ing said that, if I'm tress I would like
cast a project ?vow ha I wanted I g I
to mak m€ a motion for t hi n n k t
that's feasible or not.
Council on h °
\x if they thin
Colleen- and. only way' 1 would consider old,
iel. Okay° evening contradictory, unclear,
Mayor Chm that e informatio was what the
Well I was ob`'t° \ s , 7 had M uch grading biggest concern
ockendorf. We had s° rn Mi and my brgg that I
rnation. t h e M And the answer
Council�i °man D e" ou h it and I re read or to the north ushed to the
is if there is n g to the south '
reconsideration uas tough to w5' we took ._ to say' it needs to be P So the
ev,. that it whether Lake Lucy nough s i gn ificant e to me
� ;ery n character to the road.
difference would be between the road. I think it added some one is
g ot \vas 6 t c
° 8 feet and to m} mind that was not sig
information, about oncerned
what exactly it would be doing
I did like the curve m new inform that ever} I
if there is definitive n if this is the issue a� of the
south. Particularly since that we are only, e southern P that so if we
only way I "Q- like to see it back, of irks me If you look at the
onestl} kind o f the developmen like we're considering
to ograPh` and it h at that part 't seem
to the P we only looking much r i p and tear and it doesn '
about, why are r obably jus
here is P ncern right now is,
t as
development t P ali nrnent. My
co
do, let's look at the who p The extent at which
about cy g eeting going to be
no t, see I'm not talking Lake Lucy information at that
Counc
the valleys are g '
Mason. Well I'm it was new inform concerned, that's done.
Councilman e extent I think this is, ent as far as I m
that whole area and the extent a
and I guess to som ed off and Road all
a whole
g oing to be °hope his Colleen.
the knolls are g coming from on at to me that is th
That's where -is m to be filled. I mean that, e to do.
filled in. going
ockendorf. But that affects `' h determines
how' much cut and fill we have
we place Lake Lucy R
Counc oad determ
ilw °man D
issue .
Where '
Mayor Chmiel. That's right.
4
i Cite Council Meeting - November 14, 1994
' Councilwoman Dockendorf: Now if we can take the same plat and say okay, this is fine the way you set your
home sites and this is where Lake Lucy is going and talk about reducing some of the cut and fill, which I'm not
sure that is e.en feasible by using, by putting aside our ordinances about how steep grades can be. Then that's
' a different issue. But if we're going to talk about grading, we need to talk about road alignment. I mean the
two cannot be separated. At least that's my understanding of it. So I'm willing to look at it again but I'm really
concerned that all we're going to be doing is talking the same items with the same amount of information.
' Mayor Chmiel: Being that I was the only one who voted in opposition to this, and those are some of my basic
still concerns just exactly what you've mentioned here and I would like to see this myself brought back for
reconsideration but I cannot make the motion because I was the dissenting vote against that so one of you could
' make that motion to bring it back under the conditions that you've indicated with some of the concerns that
you're saying right now.
1
n
L
Councilman Mason. Why do you want it to come back Don?
Mayor Chmiel I think it's just exactly what you just got through saying, and without making repetition.
There's some real concerns that I saw there and it was some of the grading and some of the things that were
going to happen within that particular area. I think the Ryan's have the right to develop their property but yet
there are some concerns environmentally that I felt should be, or should have been addressed. And the road
again is the other factor of that part too. Where we'd have to look at that. Richard.
Councilman Wing Well I'll only enter into the discussion for information, just because I was out there with
Bill and this isn't a flag I can cam so it's going to have to be left with the Council. The issues that I came up
with Nyere Outlot B. and is that buildable or not buildable. I don't think we ever specified and if we're going to
set that Outlot B aside up there, I think we ought to be a little more careful about it's future and I'd like to see it
specifically not be buildable in the future so that buffer's maintained. But I asked that Bill be involved in this
and I did go out there and stand on top of the ridge line and look at the different roads. Where they would
actually go and hoNti wide they xvere. And when I actuall\ stood on the top of that hill and looked at that
northerly alignment, which I kind of favored myself, I was stunned at the amount of grading that would occur
versus if it w ent the southerly route. So I changed my mind on that and the grading was severe. I had Bill just
simply sit there and move the dirt with his hands and it simple flattens it out. So I think my concern here is a
little more philosophical along maybe with the Mayor's was if, we have our intent statement which isn't
necessarily enforceable. It's an intent statement and then your ordinance then becomes more specific which tries
to meet the intent statement. Well, there's a lot of gray area here and there always will be. We can't, I don't
want to legislate ourselves into oblivion on these issues but number one, the Outlot B I think needs to be
discussed and be specific on it's future. I think the road alignment, you have to be out there and see the two
different ones physically and then start seeing the retaining walls that have to be built. What's been given to us
has no alternatives. It's simply presented to us and it does really flatten that land out and maybe that's part of
development. Maybe the road and the alternative would flatten it out. I don't have those answers. There's
going to be a lot of damage out there one way or the other but after talking with Bill and then meeting with
Roger and then talking, I went through the Planning Commission because at the last minute I felt a lot of
pressure. Colleen and myself both kind of sat back and kind of panicked a little bit and I wish I had simply
gone with the Planning Commission that night because on 7 to nothing or 6 to nothing, as it wound up that
night, they felt that there was severe tampering occurring with this land, and they don't do that very often. They
don't ven often come out in some of their conservative position and say this land is being tampered with
beyond reason and that set me back. That's why I went out there with Bill because I said, what have I done
here. So it's in the middle. There's pros and cons. I don't know if there's a lot of new information to be had or
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City Council Meeting - November 14, 1994
not but I think both sides need to be here to, in today's terms, talk about what's getting moved and what is
,
getting changed. But if you stand out there with Bill, there's a lot of, our intent statement isn't going to be met.
And I think that intent statement is important. But I wish you the best of luck. I'd like to see an alternative.
It's just too bad there isn't an alternative. It's not up to us to do it and the owner chooses not to and sympathy
'
does go with the owner if in doubt. I mean the last decision, when it came down to push and shove, there was
sympathy for the owner and developer because it's their land and maybe was the reason I kind of held back at
the last minute.
'
Councilman Mason: What are statutes on reconsideration? Is tonight our only shot at reconsideration?
Mayor Chmiel. I don't really know.
'
Don Ashv,orth: I am sure that that is not the case. Do you want me to make a quick phone call to Roger? I
don't kno%\ if I can catch him at home but 1 can try.
'
Councilman Wing: It was my understanding tonight was D day.
Councik Oman Dockendorf Yeah. And I would like to, I mean if it is reconsidered, could it come back for the
'
next Council meeting \pith Richard here who has a ton of knowledge. I'd just as soon benefit from that.
Mayor Chmiel: He still has 2 more meetings.
'
Councilman Wing: I v�on't vote on it but I'll address it with information.
Council\yoman Dockendorf: Why not? Why in heavens name would you not?
'
Councilman Wing: I'll think about that. I think the Council that has to live with this and move forward on it
and if there's any delays should be the one making the decisions and I don't want to swap that. I'm going to
'
say this up front. Not irritates me more than a lame duck tr} to go out with a splash and I would much
rather ha\ e the people that have to cam' this forward make those decisions.
Councilman Mason: Well, I hear what you're saying about a lame duck making a splash Richard. On the other
hand Colleen is absolutely right. You have as much history and knowledge on this issue as anyone else does on
the Council and you're entitled to your beliefs and your feelings regardless of whether you're a lame duck or
not
'
Councilman Wing: And I will serve as an information source.
'
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, lame duck is not something I think we.
Councilman Wing: Well I'm being flippant about it. I don't feel that way but I think it's important that the
Council, the working Council deal with this issue in case it's pursued in the future.
'
Don Ashworth: I'm more concerned about getting the full cooperation and not, I shouldn't use cooperation.
Can we, can the Ryan's and ourselves provide this "new information" within 2 weeks?
'
G
i
Cin Council Meeting - November 14, 1994
' Councilman Wing: Bill Engelhardt can. It's black and white. Here's what's being done and frankly, if I had
this to do over again, here's the biggest problem I had. I would have said Kate, go to the podium and educate
us. Go from A to Z. What happened? What did you recommend? Why and what are the problems and we
' could have made a very intelligent decision if we had backed the pressure off us and given us just 10 minutes of
breathing space, we may have voted in good faith for it.
' Councilwoman Dockendorf: It was a very complicated...
Councilman Wing: Terribly so and they were sitting up here pushing this stuff at us that nobody had seen
before and that was out of order. I may have voted for it in good faith if Kate had just had a chance, with Bill,
to present the case in order.
Councilman Mason Well, and it would have been nice to have had some sort of before and after pictures too
' and I've got to believe the technology is there for that. Yes, no?
Don Ash�N orth: Certainly not �\ ithin a 2 N eek period of time.
' Councilman Mason Well right. Right.
Ma\ or Chmiel: No, but as vou've indicated that reconsideration could be done tonight and until the additional
' information's been secured, then at that time have a meeting back.
Councilman Wing If you reconsider, nothing need change. Nothing need happen.
' Councilman Mason: Oh that's entirely possible. I'm not, if I make a motion to reconsider, it is not, I will be
ven up front. It is not necessarih to change anything but that part about the grading just, just really hit me and
I don't kno\� that «e had time to digest that that night. The other side of the coin is, if we do reconsider and
' then deny , �ti e are also opening ourselves up for a lawsuit.
Ma\ or Chmiel That's eaacth right. You were there before that anyway, one way or the other.
' Councilman Mason So I guess maybe another question I would pose tonight is this worth a meeting perhaps
v, ith the MaN or and the Ryan's.
' Mai or Chmiel Could do that too. As I've indicated to you, I've had discussions with the Ryan's and they may
be amendable to making some changes, and I'm not speaking for them.
' Councilman Mason: I understand that.
Mavor Chmiel: But there might be something there, I don't know.
' Councilman Wing: Mike, that's a good point. I saw three things that could happen, and maybe only two.
Number one, the neighbors could come back and sue to force, try and force the intent statement. Or closer
adherence to the intent statement which then might force them to come in and mediate a little bit. On the other
' hand, if we reconsider it, maybe between the Mayor, the Ryan's and the parties, or whoever, there could be
some mediating before it even gets back to Council and be a dead issue and everybody be happy. That's what I
guess what I thought of reconsideration. It would primarily be to say Ryan's, we're really concerned but there's
7
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Cit} Council Meeting - November 14, 1994
some problems here. Why don't you talk to the Mayor and staff and see if there isn't some compromise that we '
can make everybody happy with and maybe not even come back to Council. Or push ahead on it and see if the
neighbors want to sue or not, which case forces mediation, or let it go altogether. That's a difficult question
Mike. I don't envy you. Very awkward. '
Councilman Mason: Ticking of the clock makes me think of what, the Edgar Allan Poe. Was that the Pit and
the Pendulum? '
Councilman Wing: It's not 8:OU yet. We've got time
Councilman Mason: We're got 2 more minutes before 8:00. Well I also, I feel deeply for the Ryan's and I'm ,
sure there are some people that share that sentiment and I again will kind of say, I won't kind of say. I don't
like this N,e versus they attitude in this city and I know sometimes it can't be helped and I would hope it's not a
matter of choosing sides. But I've maintained that in the last 3 years, 11 months I guess so that will continue. '
Council%yoman Dockendorf. I'm trying to think of the last time we reconsidered an item, and I don't recall what
it was.
Councilman Mason: It was something to do with, it was a beachlot issue if I'm not mistaken.
Council\yoman Dockendorf: I was afraid it was that '
Councilman Mason: And �Ne won't discuss that.
Councilvyoman Dockendorf: But my point being that it wasn't as close a vote as it was 2 weeks ago on this '
item and obyiousk that evening Richard and I were completely undecided and it was a difficult issue and the
facts Nyere muddled and I think it's worth taking a look at So at least if we do approve it, we can do it with the
full know ledge that we did our all_ '
Councilman Mason: Sounds like a motion Councilwoman.
Councilv,oman Dockendorf: Well, I think it sounds like a second Mike. '
Councilman Wing: You're getting good Mike.
Councilman Mason: Well I guess I will make a motion to reconsider. I want however, before it gets passed, I '
want to haye some very strict parameters put on that reconsidering because I don't want this whole thing opened
up again. I don't thin}; Ryan's, I don't think Mancino's, Carlsons, Davis, whoever. That's not why I want this '
re- opened. I want it re- opened because I would like the Mayor to sit down with the Ryan's and maybe express
some concerns. I would like it reconsidered because I would like some sort of visual representation of how the
grades will change before and after. So actually there'd be three. South alignment, north alignment and as is. I '
don't know how that, this puts us with the 120 day time line, which may or may not be an issue. I do not, you
know I kind of firmly believe once we make a decision, then we need to stand by it and I feel badly that the
Ryan's aren't here to know this right now, but I assume they'll be called soon enough. But I want the motion to
be made very clear that it is to get, the reason I'm making this motion for reconsideration is I need to see the
changes in topography and it can be on a graph, CAD, whatever. I want to be able to see three pictures and if
that isn't possible, and I don't know. But I guess the first step is, if you're willing to do it.
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Cite Council Meeting - November 14, 1994
Ma } 'or Chmiel Yes. Yeah, I'd be willing to do that
Councilman Mason: Because if, like Richard said, if that can be worked out that way, then none of this other
time and expense needs to happen, which is my preference. That none of this other stuff needs to happen. So
there's my motion and it's 8:03.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, we have a motion on the floor. Is there a second?
CounclINNoman Dockendorf: I will second it.
Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to reconsider the motion made on Shamrock
Ridge regarding topography. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Mason seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the
motion carricd. The meeting was adjourned at 8:03 p.m
Submitted b\ Don Ash�N orth
Cite Manacer
Prepared b% Nann Opheim
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