9a. Housing and Redevelopment Authority AppointmentsMay 3, 1994
CHANHAOSSM
Mr. Jim Bohn
Heritage Park Apts.
425 Chan View, Apt. 310
Chanhassen, MN 55317
CITY OF 9 ��
690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900 0 FAX (612) 937 -5739
W /,' . 0 4 N /-r
Dear Jim:
As you are aware, HRA appointments are for a`staggered five year term This occurs in May
at which time I place the appointment/reappointment onto the first City Council agenda in
May. For this year, the item is proposed to be considered on May 9, 1994.
This is just a short note to remind you that if you are interested in serving a new five year
term, you should contact the Mayor some time this week or weekend. Under Minnesota
Statute, the Mayor, solely, has the responsibility to make the nomination for HRA
appointments. The City Council must concur with or deny that nomination. I would
encourage you to seek reappointment as I have enjoyed working with you; however, I must
also warn you that many of the city council members would like to see at least three of the
seats on the HRA being held by council members.
Best of luck.
DA:v
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City .:ouncil Meeting - May 9, 1994
and Conditional Use Permit for the Press and Kinderc:are until the Planning Commissioa forwards their
recommendations. All voted in favor, except Councilman Senn who did not vote, and the motion carried.
APPOINTMENT TO THE HOUSING AND REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY, MAYOR CE NM.
M
Mayor Chmiel: I have had some discussion with Mr. Bohn, with Jim Bohn just this past week. I've had one
discussion with one of the Councilmembers. But as yet I have not had any other discussions only because it
curtails the ability for me to talk to any more than one person at one given time on a given Council agenda
project. And so I thought what I wanted to do is to sort of get the feel from Council. One of the things that I
look at strongly too is what I have seen is to have 3 members of the citizens on the HRA with 2 of the Council
members overlooking. The proposal I've never really thought about it being a complete responsibility of the
Council to have the HRA as well. I think we need the outside input for some of these things and some of these
other people are well qualified within areas that we may or may not be. But some of the thoughts that I had and
one of the things I mentioned to Mr. Bohn also, is that I would get back to him and inform him prior to any
decisions being trade. In my mind I do not have a decision and my suggestion would be to table it but I would
lt3ce some discussion on it.
Councilman Wing: I move tabling so you can get your act together. It's your decision and I think you can
show whatever leadership you want to. Whatever—
' Mayor Chmiel: Well I guess I wanted some additional input. There's been some discussions that the Council
would like to probably take over or control the BRA. I don't have that feeling. I think at one time or another,
if we have two people on there, that's the way I would like to see it go. I don't think we want to railroad things
' through, as most people could look at it is as. And I just think there should be some, I'd like to get some
additional feelings. And you're right, I will act on it until I get some back feed from some of the people sitting
here.
' Councilwoman Dockendorf. I do have some comments. My fivsuation has been the left hand not knowing
what the right hand is doing and I think, which really presents to me two options. Either the Council is the
BRA or we set up some procedure for informing each other. I think moving 3 people to the HRA, 3 Council
' members to the HRA is a waste of time. I know I wouldn't want to sit on the HRA unless the HRA was the
Council, or vica versa. So for me I don't know whether we need to, I'm not speaking coherently am P
Councilman Wing: Better than I can do.
Councilwoman Dockendorf. It's two options. Either the Council becomes the BRA or we open the lines of
communication a little better and provide for every Council meeting to have one of the members,
Councilmembers on the BRA update the rest of the Council.
Mayor Chmiel: I think that's where it should really come from is some additional communication. It should be
brought back and I think not only that but other areas that if some of the Council members sit on any respective
other commissions.
Councilwoman Dockendorf. Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with you. My other comment would be, and I
have the same frustration with the Board of Adjustments. Is that we're seeing the same people term after term
after term.
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City Council Meeting - May 9, 1994 !+
Mayor Chmiel: That's only because they're proficient at it. '
Councilwoman Dockendorf. So absolutely. But I think there comes a point in time where we just need new '
blood.
Mayor Chmiel: Well I don't disagree with you with that Colleen. Well maybe I do to a certain point. When '
you have people who understand what the ordinances are and what the requirements are. To put someone new
in who doesn't quite know exactly what's going on unless they may be aware from being in a former position as
such.
Councilwoman Dockendorf. Well you can always be brought up to speed '
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah right. But there's quite a bit of knowledge that it takes for those people to have in order '
to do what they're really doing. But that has a lot of pros and cons to the issue as well. And I do believe when
we made a reappointment, we did that reappointment accordingly by Council so.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Oh absolutely, yeah. I wouldn't disagree with that. '
Mayor Chmiel: So we have to talk out of both sides as well. Michael.
Councilman Mason: Being on HRA, well. I'll maintain my position all along is I think I'm here because I'm ,
trying to do what I think is best for the city. The comment was made by Councilwoman Dockendorf about
length of terms and she related Board of Adjustment to HRA. Right? '
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yes.
Councilman Mason: And I guess I see some major differences between those two. I mean obviously Board of '
Adjustments is a Board that decides whether variances should or shouldn't be approved and HRA has a much
different function in the city. It's to continue the city's growth, particular the downtown area. And I, while as
I'll go political here and say I'm not in favor of term limits on a national level. That has nothing to do with this
but I do think that there is something to be said for getting a different outlook from time to time. For getting
new and fresh viewpoints from time to time. Now I'm not knocking, well. I think that's something that needs
to be looked at. However I'm not the one that does the appointing or the reappointing either. I will say, I do '
agree with the Mayor when he says that your comment about having 3 Council members on HRA. I do think
it's important to get a "civilian" outlook on things if you will and I do agree with that. I would not like to see a
majority of HRA be Council. But maybe it's time to look at some fresh things but again, that's not my decision.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Thank you. Mark.
Councilman Senn: Well I guess I'll enter the well known minority viewpoint. To me there's major delineations
between the Board of Zoning and HRA. In the first place, Board of Appeals, first of all it's appointed every
year. So I mean the option's there to change people or whatever every year. If the Council chooses not to do
that, I guess that's up to the Council. The other thing is, they control variances and if an applicant isn't happy '
with what they do, they have a right to appeal it to the Council who are their elected representatives. And they
can rely back on their elected representatives to make a final decision. And then they can also judge them based
on that. I think that's how the process is supposed to work. They also don't control any money. The HRA I
believe controls more money in the city than the City Council does. And I've always felt strongly and I still do '
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I City Council Meeting - May 9, 1994
' feel strongly that the HRA should be the City Council and to me, the reason that it should be that is it provides a
more open process for the HRA and the decisions they make and makes the HRH's decisions more open to
' scrutiny by the public. And again, the electorate can hold the City Council then responsible for those actions
and decide accordingly. You know right now there's huge stuns of money in the city being controlled by the
HRA and there's not a citizen in town that can hold them responsible for anything. Because they don't have the
' option to elect them or not elect them. And I just think those are compelling reasons why the Council should be
the HRA. And that's the reason why I'm going to say 90 some percent of the municipalities have already made
that move. Very few municipalities still have an independent HRA in the State of Minnesota And just I think
with what's happening in Chanhassen, it behooves us to take that responsibility and accountability and I'd like to
' see the HRA and the City Council in effect be one and the same. But again, I know that's the minority
viewpoint so enough said. Plus I'm beaten so I'd better shut myself off.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any other discussion? Richard.
Councilman Wing: Well I, I really respect all three opinions.
' Councilwoman Dockendorf: How political of you.
Councilman Senn: That's better than saying we should talk about term limits after midnight, right?
' Councilman Wing: First of all, I would like to serve on the HRA, but that's neither here nor there. Whether it's
now or in the future but why would I like to serve on the HRA as a Council member? Well, they control more
money than I do. They control our future. They control development, etc, etc. So I mean every time somebody
complains to me I say, go to an HRA meeting. Well who are they? Well they're the people building your
city. Controlling it and I can't disagree with Mark. I think BRA is a very strong, powerful force in their
element. And why don't you say it right now, because it will clarify where I'm going.
' Councilman Mason: Okay, I will say it. I think HRA is involved with downtown redevelopment and there's a
real big difference between what goes on in the city and what goes on in downtown.
Councilman Wing: Yeah, downtown.
' Councilman Mason: I think that does need to be made clear.
Councilman Wing: Yeah, let me be real specific.
' Mayor Chmiel: It's all within each of the TIF districts.
Councilman Wing: Downtown. But that's to me what Chanhassen is right now and becoming. Civilians.
' Absolutely mandatory to have the community and civilians in there and I guess my frustration there is, I have
been disappointed in and disappointed with some of the comments, lack of leadership. Perhaps personal
weaknesses that I personally have seen at HRA that have been frustrating for me. I don't.know if I can say that
critically other than I have not particularly felt a lot of leadership from some of the civilian members. So that's
come back I think to haunt us a little bit. But the diversity I think is important to be there. I guess I would
favor the majority being the Council, mainly because the Council itself is diverse. It's not a gang coming from
City Hall to haunt HRA. The civilian members still have their vote. The discussion still goes on and a strong
1 member whether, being a strong personality and emotional and passionate on issues I believe in, if I was on
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City Council Meeting - May 9, 1994 1
HRA, would take you guys on lock, stock and barrel. I don't care if you come from the Council or not and I'd
rant and rave and see that the point got made, and if you're right, you're right. I wouldn't allow the Council to
dominate me. Could we dominate the existing group? Maybe. I don't know but, so I guess, I don't know if I ,
want to take it over but I guess I sort of, because of the amount of money and the amount of vision and the
amount of future involved, I kind of favor seeing one of us sit there as the third member to have the majority
vote. I don't know if that dilutes it down too much. If we had a lot stronger, more aggressive leadership from ,
the civilian side I might say, that isn't necessary. I think they'd be in here talking and communicating and I
wouldn't, they wouldn't be allowing us to run their show so. I would be comfortable with a third member from
Council sitting on there. I would not be disappointed, I'd be very comfortable supporting the position that you
had too. To leave it as is. But I would wam the civilian group, do their job and be aggressive and make sure '
they're going toe to toe here with the Council.
Mayor Chmiel: I think the civilian segment of the community does look to what interest is for the city as well.
And there's no question in my mind some of the things that come back from staff or some of the proposals and
'
so on are the things that this HRA really addresses. And rightfully so because that's the way the city functions.
Staff makes the recommendations of the HRA or City Council can either approve or disapprove whatever cones
before them. You want to say something?
'
Councilman Wing: Well just.
Councilman Senn: Don that's true but it doesn't ever go to the second step I guess is what I come back to. If
,
the HRA does something, it never goes to the Council and the Council doesn't have an option, as the elected
representatives of the city, to confirm or deny what the HRA has done and to me that's where the process goes
awry.
'
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, and sometimes just what you're saying is if we were to have addressed some of those
things, but some of the things you even brought out to Council, on some of your no decisions that you voted on,
,
I'm sure would have gone the same way. And the discussion still would be there but that's all that would be
there.
Councilman Senn: That's a very limited amount of what the HRA does.
'
Mayo Chmiel: That's exactly right.
'
Councilman Senn: Very limited amount.
Mayor Chmiel: But the point of the HRA being where they are, I still feel strongly that we have citizen input
'
rather than taking over lock, stock and barrel and ram rodding through what you think you should ram rod
through. And I don't believe in that either. It's.
Councilman Senn: Why is it ram nodding? I mean I don't understand that. I mean if every citizen come to
,
every hearing and provide their input. I mean to me that's not the Council... .
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, maybe it's a poor choice of a word to say ram rodding. Maybe that's not the proper
'
word. But would the decisions be any different? I don't know.
Councilman Senn: Well, who knows? I
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I City Council Meeting - May 9, 1994
I Mayor Chmiel: Richard.
' Councilman Wing: Because of the growth of our city and the amount of money involved and the complexity of
these issues, I have to side with Mark in that I think the Council really needs to be intimately, strongly and have
a lot of control over this. I wouldn't go as far as Mark in taking over it's entirety but I guess I do favor having
the majority vote and I would just leave it at that. And no hard feelings if it doesn't go that way.
Mayor Chmiel: Oh no, no. No. I think we've worked too long together to have hard feelings one way or the
other.
Councilman Wing: Count on that.
' Mayor Chmiel: And those don't happen here, as far as I'm concerned.
Councilman Senn: If you're looking for comments Don, I mean it's not hard to sense you know when it's
going here. I mean I think the chances of the Council taking it over at pretty slim to none but, from the
comments I'm hearing. But you know if you're asking for comments beyond that then yeah. The more Council
representation I'm going to say that can get on there, the happier I'm going to be, even though I think that where
we should be is all and so I just, and I guess like Richard, I would be happy to express my interest in doing that
' but again I know I'm the minority vote so the chances probably are slim of that too but I think the HRA needs
to ask a lot harder questions than they ask about things. And I think those things need to be aired a lot more in
an open process than they are being so.
' Councilman Wing: I want to target, excuse me Mike. If I can just target Mark's last sentence. I think that's
the key to where I'm coming from. They need to ask a lot of hard questions and Mark, could you phrase that
again so it gets repeated. Your feelings about what they need to do because I feel probably that same way.
' Councilman Senn: Well I just think again, they need to ask a lot harder questions than they're asking about
things and really get to the bottom of them and you know, hey. Most of their decisions involve pure and simply
' expense. It's dollars going out and those, as we're so much reminded of here in the last year or two, those
resources are dwindling faster than we can keep up with them and how those resources are used are becoming
more and more critical here, especially as it winds down to the early 2000's when at least TIF as we know it
now goes away. And that's not to say that there's probably not going to be an instant replacement of it but you
' know, to wind down I think is going to be real critical for the city to set those priorities and get them where they
want them. And like I say, the best way I see to do that is to have the Council do it and take the leadership role
in doing that.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. When you make discussions regarding TIF, I think where the TIF dollars have gone to
what you see downtown and what you see in the industrial park, I think are quite well spent. Just the way the
' community is developing. In addition to that, the new grade school as well. I think there's an awful lot of
pluses that have come from it. There may have been a few questionables that you think about when it comes to
purchasing buildings or things of that nature. But I think the total dollars that have been spent accordingly is
best for the community.
' Councilwoman Dockendorf: Here's one of the reasons I wrote down. One of my reasons ... dim I would favor
making the two commissions, or the Council and the commission one and the same. It's just getting back to the
' communication issue. But more of, if we think our audiences here are sparse, I've never seen anyone sit in an
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City Council Meeting - May 9, 1994 1
meeting. I don't think the community knows who the are, what the do, what issues the '
BRA ty Y Y Y deal with and I
don't know how we garner citizen input when people don't know that these items are being discussed and who
discusses them. When people think of the projects that are going on in the city, they think of the City Council '
you know approving those projects and.
Councilman Senn: And when they're getting built, that's when you hear from them. City Council person. '
Councilman Wing: When they don't work, and the streets don't work and everything else, and I'm up against
the wall saying, I didn't do it. And they said, well you're the Council. Who in the heck did it.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Right, and why? '
Councilman Wing: The HRA did it. '
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well what the heck's that.
Councilman Wing: That's exactly. ,
Councilwoman Dockendorf. Yeah so you know, I don't know if it's whether we do it in a report or a newsletter
or whether Mr. Trippler would be nice enough to write an article about who and what the HRA does but '
somehow we have to let the citizens know.
Mayor Chmiel: Well I think too that the Minutes coming from the BRA within the packets probably should also '
be there. As to what's discussed rather than just seeing what's being proposed. We get the Minutes, and I think
if there's direction that Council feels that there should be some discussion on, and feels what's in the packet is
not apropos, that's when it's time for Council to come back before the HRA and at least state their opinions. '
And I know that Richard has done it from time to time and I think that's where I think that different aspect
comes from.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: But I'm not talking about just the Council. I'm talking about the community at ,
large. They need to know what's going on.
Mayor Chmiel: True. But that's also published as an informational item in the newspaper and just like you see '
tonight. Unfortunately there are not enough people who are really interested but take that amount and put their
feelings towards us because they think that we are the authority in coming up with those discussions. Or with
whatever we might address. So that's another part of it.
Don Ashworth: Mr. Mayor? '
Mayor Chmiel: Yes Don. '
Councilman Senn: Well if we're going, something Don if I could. To follow up on Colleen's point, just so we
don't lose it. I just would really like, even if we're not going to go ahead and do anything on the Council and, ,
or I should say most the Council isn't going to, the more open we can make that process the better, and if that
means start putting BRA meetings on TV and getting better coverage on it and stuff like that, then I think we
should we do that. I mean it just never ceases to amaze me the number of people that come up to me and tell
me that they watch this. Which leads me to question a number of things but, especially with all the midnight to '
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City Council Meeting - May 9, 1994
2:00 a.m. meetings we have but you know, but if they do, at least it gives people a way to start understanding
' what it is and who it is and what they're doing and I don't know whether that will help much or not but I guess
I'd like to see more and more steps towards that since again I don't think the other's going to happen.
' Mayor Chmiel: Well okay. Don, you wanted to say something here.
Don Ashworth: Just a couple of quick comments. And I realize this is being tabled You've put a lot of
emphasize on the money that the HRA has and it's more than City Council. When we review this document in
2 weeks you're going to see here where really the HRA has fully committed it's funds. I mean this takes into
account what's in the ground today and so there's a strong likelihood that before the HRA folds their door, that
you may be finding a plus to the $3 million position over where we're at I think from a year ago of about $4
t million. Something like that. Secondly the HRA, and in 2 weeks you're going to be holding the hearing on the
HRA's redevelopment plan and included in there is each and every item that they can spend money for. And
their incentive program. So if you don't like the current incentive program, because the HRA generally treats all
businesses the same, and I know there was some discussion. Well should we provide incentive for ABC versus
' another one. Well again, the policy is in there. I'd like to spend time potentially with each one of you to take
and walk down through each one of those. The pedestrian bridge is in there. The Hanus facility is in there.
The incentive program as it deals with new businesses coming in is in there. If this City Council doesn't
' approve those, the HRA can't do them. So I mean that's a real vital document and again we're going through
another revision here in another 2 weeks. And so here is your opportunity for.
' Mayor Chmiel: Look at it and scrutinize it.
Don Ashworth: ...of input.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay. So with that I'd like to have a motion to table this to our next meeting which would be
the 23rd.
' Councilman Wing moved, Councihnan Mason seconded to table the appointment to the Housing and
Redevelopment Authority until the next City Council meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Mayor Chmiel: Item number 7. Well before we go to that. Maybe we'll address item (f) and (o). Mark. Of
t the Consent Agenda
3(F). APPROVE YEAR END CLOSINGS AND TRANSFERS.
Councilman Senn: On item (f), I guess I pulled this for the main reason that I suppose if we could do this by
line item. I support everything in here except four items but on the basis that I'm not sure that that ability exists
' I asked for it to be removed. The reason I asked for it to be removed quite honestly is I just get orally, really
bothered seeing effectively $560,000.00 being transfered into a fund called City Hall expansion when this
Council has not had any discussion about expanding City Hall. So I have no intention of Yoting for those one
way or the other going into that fund. The other one is down under the second listing. $74,201.60. You
'
know ... prime example of HRA. That's $74,201.60 in consulting fees to HGA on the ill fated attempt to put a
community center behind the Frontier Building. And I just again, I can't go for that. I don't know how we ever
allowed almost $75,000.00 to be spent on a project that this Councilman never set as a priority or.even endorsed
' in the end. And have similar feelings down the line. The $22,930.00 in consulting fees to go tell us we should
spend $200,000.00 for entry monuments in the city so, I'd be happy, like I say, to vote for approval on all these
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