CC 2011 08 22
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 22, 2011
Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:10 p.m. The meeting was opened with the
Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mayor Furlong, Councilwoman Ernst, Councilman
Laufenburger, Councilwoman Tjornhom, and Councilman McDonald
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Gerhardt, Laurie Hokkanen, Kate Aanenson, Paul Oehme, Todd
Hoffman, Roger Knutson, Greg Sticha, Dale Gregory, Karen Engelhardt, Kim Meuwissen, and
Danielle Washburn
Mayor Furlong: Thank you everybody. I appreciate those here at the council chambers that re
with us tonight. Thank you for coming as well as those watching at home. At this time I’d like
to add one item under public announcements, which everybody will be aware of in just a minute.
I’m going to just give an update on a recognition the City received from Money magazine. Are
there any other changes or modifications to the agenda from members of council? If not, without
objection we’ll proceed with the agenda as published.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Mayor Furlong: At this time I’m going to come down in front and talk a little bit about what I
think we all know about. Well good evening everybody and welcome. Anyone and everyone
associated with the City of Chanhassen is rightfully honored and proud to be recognized, for our
city to be recognized by CNN Money Magazine as the 2011 tenth best place to live in America.
Residents, businesses, and others associated with the city have long known that this city is a
great place to live, work and raise a family and Money Magazine confirmed it again. This is not
the first time in the last few years we’ve been recognized with a designation such as this. Family
Circle magazine recognized us as one of the top 10 towns to raise a family a few years ago. This
is the third time in the last 5 years that Money Magazine has placed us in one of the top best
cities to live so it’s not a fluke. But at the same time we’re not unique. We recognize that there
are a lot of great places to live in Carver County, in Minnesota, and across the U.S. but tonight
the Chanhassen City Council would like to recognize and say thank you to many of the
organizations and individuals that have contributed to our city’s success over the years. It is our
City’s vision that Chanhassen is a community for life by providing for today’s needs and
planning for tomorrow’s we are ensuring that Chanhassen’s quality of life is sustainable for
future generations. Our residents have a strong sense of community built through years and long
standing traditions. Active civic and business organizations and friendly neighborhoods. Those
who raise families here as well as all of our residents and businesses benefit from our thriving
downtown, our extensive park and trail system, our excellent schools, countless community
events and the preservation and enhancements for our natural amenities. This year’s survey
criteria by Money Magazine, which do change every time they publish from year to year, but
they’re always looking for those quality of life aspects that are important to everybody. Strong
local economies. Low unemployment. Diversified businesses. Low crime. Strong schools.
Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Stable housing prices. Those are the criteria that they looked at. Our extensive park and trail
system, natural amenities and even the Minnesota Landscape Arboretum were specifically
mentioned by Money Magazine as some of our assets. Scoring well in all these categories
should not be a surprise to any of us or anyone else who’s familiar with our town. This
recognition results from years of dedicated and committed service by many different groups
within our city, our school districts, businesses, civic partners, and many residents who over the
years have helped to inspire and implement the values and vision that we all enjoy today.
Tonight in our council chambers for those watching at home we have a number of different
organizations and individuals here and I’d like to recognize a few of them and as I mention your
names or groups if you could stand and at the end I’m going to make sure I don’t miss anybody
so feel free if I don’t mention you first, to raise your hand so you can be recognized. In no
particular order but for Councilman Laufenburger’s benefit, the Red Birds are here. As we all
know the Red Birds returned last year after a nearly 40 year hiatus to play town ball out at the
new high school. Sheriff Jim Olson is here and the sheriff’s department is here. Thank you very
much. We have a couple county commissioners here. Of course we have a great relationship
with Carver County. Commissioner Tom Workman is here. Gayle Degler is here as well. We
have our fire department well represented here. Ladies and gentlemen from the fire department.
We have members from our school districts here. School District 112, Superintendent Jim
Bauck, Dr. Jim Bauck and Tim Doley, President of our Chanhassen High School. Chanhassen is
honored to be represented by two excellent school districts. We also have Lisa Wagner from the
school board of Minnetonka School District here this evening. We have some other civic
organizations here as well. The Chanhassen Business Council is represented here, Buy
Chanhassen and I believe Southwest Chamber of Commerce also has some representatives so
thank you everyone. Probably have some representatives from Rotary here as well and I know
the Lions Club are meeting tonight so they can’t be here.
Tom Workman: I’m here.
Mayor Furlong: You’re here. The Lions Club, we do have a representative so two other great
organizations that do a wonderful job and really serve all of us are the Rotary and the Lions Club
so thank you for them as well. We have members from our city commissions here. The Senior
Commission, Park and Recreation Commission, Planning Commission, Environmental
Commission. If our volunteer commissioners could stand up as well and be recognized. All the
commission members volunteer their time and talents to benefit all of us and we appreciate their
efforts throughout the year. But we have a number of city employees here as well from all the
departments so if the city employees could stand up real quick so we can recognize you as well.
They do a great job day in and day out of not only dealing with us as a council but more
importantly making sure this city is run as well as it is. I know we had received information,
they couldn’t be here but representatives from Southwest Transit wanted to be here as well.
That’s the organization that provides transit services for Chanhassen, Eden Prairie and Chaska
and they do a wonderful job as well. Who did I miss with organizations or groups? I missed one
person.
David Techam: My name is David Techam.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you David for being here tonight. We appreciate you being here.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
David Techam: My family has lived here for 150 years. …my grandparents Dvorak’s lived here
for 150 years and farmed here. I’ve lived here for 68 years. And I have a complaint.
Mayor Furlong: And we will get to that. I’m aware of that and we will get to that. The other
people that I didn’t recognize earlier, that I want to recognize right now is a former mayor of
Chanhassen, Mr. Chanhassen and his wife, Mary Jane Klingelhutz. Mayor. Anyone else that I
missed at this point? Yes. Sorry.
Audience: …Chair from Chapel Hill Academy.
Mayor Furlong: One of our private schools, thank you very much. Yes.
Audience: The Chanhassen Library.
Mayor Furlong: The Chanhassen Library’s here.
Audience: The Chanhassen Historical Society.
Mayor Furlong: The Historical Society is well represented. Thank you. At this time what I’d
like to do, before I introduce the group that everybody’s been pointing to for the last few
minutes, is just close my comments by saying all of us should be very proud of this recognition.
As I said earlier, it is not the first. It may or may not be the last but that doesn’t matter. The
quality of life in Chanhassen is excellent and it’s because of everybody represented here tonight
as well as those not represented that over the years and even currently are continuing to make
Chanhassen a great place for all of us. We have long been a great small town to live, work and
play. I would encourage all of us to keep it going. Let’s keep doing what we’ve been doing and
keep doing it well and even better so that high quality of life that we enjoy today will be here for
generations to come. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your efforts. At this time I’d
like to introduce the Chanhassen High School Storm cheerleaders. I understand that they are a
good representation.
The Chanhassen High School Storm cheerleaders performed a cheer for the crowd.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you very much. I did hear a smart aleck remark that they should do a
pyramid with the mayor on top. Everybody’s looking a different direction. We’re not going to
entertain you with that. You can just vision that in your mind. At this time the City Council
would like to host everybody and serve cake for everybody in celebration of this so we’re going
to take a quick recess from our council meeting and let’s have some cake, enjoy it and talk to our
friends and neighbors that are here. Thank you very much.
The City Council recessed the regular meeting at 7:20 p.m. It was reconvened at 7:45 p.m.
Mayor Furlong: At this time I’d like to reconvene the Chanhassen City Council meeting and
we’ll continue with the next items on our agenda.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilman McDonald
seconded to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s
recommendations:
a. Approval of Minutes:
-City Council Work Session Minutes dated August 8, 2011
-City Council Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated August 8, 2011
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS.
David Techam: My name is David Techam and the Techam family settled this area. The
Dvorak family settled this area. Last Friday I had a fire in my home. I went down to put it out
myself. It was not very much. But then somebody called the fire department and I thought oh
fine. You know. And I went to tell the fireman that you don’t have to break that $400 window.
There’s a door on the other side of the stairway and it’s open. You can take your fire hose and
go through there. The first thing I, I’m a retired disabled 100% navy veteran. I went through
naval fire fighting school, survival school and so I do know what I’m doing when it comes to a
fire and the first thing I learned in fire fighting school is you do not feed a fire oxygen or air. If
they would have went through the door, this fire was in a cavity between two concrete walls.
Why it started, we don’t know but if all they would have had to do is take and, a hose and fill
that cavity full of water and that would have been the end of that. They didn’t do that. They
smashed the windows out. They smashed the concrete wall out. They tore all my plumbing out.
They, they, they inflamed the fire. But that’s not my complaint. I know most of the firemen
very well. I have offered my services as a first responder for hazardous materials and chemicals
and I showed you my card. What my complaint was, is when I was going to tell that fireman that
there was a door 15 feet from that window that was open, you know he couldn’t see in that dark.
It was at midnight or around midnight so he couldn’t see that. So I was going to go tell him go
over here 15 feet and there’s an open door and you can take your hose and you can go right in
there and put the fire out and that’s the end of that. I mean the fire wasn’t gigantic. It got
gigantic after they smashed the windows. Those windows are probably $400 apiece. I worked,
I’m 100% disabled veteran. I worked my buns off building that for me and my wife to exercise
in. Now it is completely destroyed. The fire probably did maybe $1,700 worth of damage. The
fire department I would estimate did a $100,000 worth of damage. But when I was going to tell
the fireman that the door was there, a police officer came from behind me. Hit my in my left
shoulder with a 2 by 4. This shoulder has had an operation on it and it has a pin on it. That pin,
underneath the head of that pin has a small fracture. If that fracture heals, I’ll be fine. If it
continues to break, I’m left handed. I’ll lose my arm. They broke my foot. I have a back injury
that the VA’s been treating for about 10 years and shoving me down in the mud you know and
jerking my arm cannot go over my head. It cannot go behind my back. So what my complaint
is, is that we either clean up our fire department or not our fire department. Police department or
we go like Chaska did and get our own fire department. Or our own police department. And
people who live here in the community and help the people. Not, I’ve had Carver County police
departments follow me all the way to the VA to see if I’d do something wrong. That’s
harassment. Look at me. Look at my arm. Look at my arm here. You see that? That’s what
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
our police department does and it’s got to stop. It’s not everybody you know. We have some
good cops here but something has to be done with the people who are doing it or we have to get
our own police department. When I used to come up here and count votes with my grandfather
at Pauly’s, we had a full time mayor. We had a full time sheriff. Now we don’t have anything.
We don’t have a sheriff that patrols. We don’t have a sheriff that cares and knows our people.
We don’t have any of that anymore. What we built and what my grandfathers built is gone.
Even though that rating is there, it is not a city it used to be.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you sir.
David Techam: Thank you for listening.
Mayor Furlong: Anyone else under visitor presentations that would like to address the council
this evening? Good evening Commissioner.
Gayle Degler: Mayor and City Council members. I’m Gayle Degler, County Commissioner. I
live at 541 Pineview Court and everybody needs a little good news and I want to say
congratulations to the City on behalf of the Board of Commissioners for your rankings with
Money Magazine. For those of us that have lived here I’d say our whole life, this wasn’t a
surprise. I mean we’ve been trying to keep our little secret for ourselves but now obviously the
whole world knows about it. You’ve set the bar very high, not only for cities in Carver County
but also the metro and the state. I’m not sure how the rest of you found out about this award but
I received an email from my daughter and she teaches in Green Bay, Wisconsin and she said I
might work in the city that boasts the world champion football team but you live in a city that is
recognized nationwide so on behalf of the Carver County Commissioners I want to say
congratulations. Keep up the good work.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you very much.
David Techam: May I have one word? One minute?
Mayor Furlong: You need one more minute? Just if you can keep it to one minute, that’d be
fine.
David Techam: Yeah. About 2 ½ years ago the police department arrested me for terroristic
threats that your Mr. Lenzen, your building inspector lied under oath and I am going to prosecute
him. Is he still here?
Mayor Furlong: I believe he’s still a city employee, yes.
David Techam: I will be serving him.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you sir. Anyone else for visitor presentations this evening? Very
good, let’s continue on with the other items on our agenda.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
CITY CODE AMENDMENT: CONSIDER AMENDMENT TO CHAPTER 20, ZONING
AND CHAPTER 11, MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS AND OFFENSES,
CONCERNING REGULATING GUN RANGES; INCLUDING APPROVAL OF
SUMMARY ORDINANCE FOR PUBLICATION PURPOSES.
Mayor Furlong: This is something we discussed at our last meeting. Let’s start with a staff
report please and then we can bring it back to discussion.
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. Again as you indicated, this
th
is a review of what we discussed at the August 8 meeting. We asked that it be tabled to do a
little bit more research so included in this is what you had some concerns, and staff also had
some concerns about. Specifically being in a multi-tenant building and then additionally to
attach what the other cities have for ordinances, and incidentally since this time speaking with
the city attorney, another city has also put one in as a conditional use in a sporting goods store
that he worked in so we were kind of able to talk to some of the issues and the biggest safeguard
I guess that we feel like we have is the investment that you have to put in for a shooting range.
So for a shooting range to go in, is a big capital investment for the developer and then also for
the ultimate tenant so it’s really close to $750,000 to a million dollars in improvements so we
don’t think there’s going to be a rash of these in places where we had anticipated. I guess that
was our concern. Some of the unintended consequences so without, and the fact that we’re
making it a conditional use and we can attach conditions to make sure they’ve got adequate
parking and hours of operation, those sort of things that might negatively impact the neighboring
uses, that we feel comfortable recommending approval at this time. What is different between
this and what you saw last time, is we took out the paintball so at this point all you’re addressing
now is just an ordinance for conditional use regulating or amending two sections of the city code,
Chapter 11 and then Chapter 20. So one would be permit shooting in a fire, in a gun range and
the other, Chapter 20 would be to making the standards for the conditional use in the business
district. So with that we did include the two other cities that had shooting ranges but staff is
comfortable at this point recommending approval of the ordinance and the summary ordinances
for those two chapters of the code and I’d be happy to answer any questions that you have.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff.
Councilman Laufenburger: I have one Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Kate so you’re excluding the paintball.
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Or you’re silent on that issue.
Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yes.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Councilman Laufenburger: So if somebody approached the City interested in doing something
with paintball, would our response be I’m sorry, they aren’t allowed or?
Kate Aanenson: No. Then we would process that at that time. We did have somebody
interested. We followed up on that. That party is not as interested anymore so we don’t feel that
at this point we need to amend it but if someone was to come in we certainly would respond to
that. We do have plenty of outdoor acreages for that too.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: So that was actually indoor and outdoor so we would certainly process it if
somebody went for that.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: So then is paintball, is it currently a permitted use?
Kate Aanenson: No.
Mayor Furlong: Or is it not?
Kate Aanenson: No. No.
Mayor Furlong: So it would have to be something that would be added.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And was there reason in terms of pulling it out?
Kate Aanenson: Well I think for that if you have larger groups coming at a time. Certainly at a
gun range you can have competitive shooting but when you have a lot of, the outdoor issue we
weren’t as concerned about. There’s operations that would work successfully. It’s the indoor
operation. You’d order the same level of sound proofing. Noise attenuation. The same
investment you would with a shooting range. We just want to make sure again that if we’re
going to put that in an interior, multi-tenant business that we weren’t negatively impacting
anybody else in that center.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: And for the most part when you have someone that leases a building it’s a
different issue as opposed to someone that just you know renting a space so we just want to make
sure we address that and since there wasn’t a pending application we’re going to take a little bit
more time with that one.
Mayor Furlong: And with regard to the gun range then, the change in terms of sound proofing
for multi-tenant buildings, that would be something that would continue.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Kate Aanenson: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: As a contingent or as a, as part of the approval process.
Kate Aanenson: Right. Again so by doing this tonight anybody that did want to do a shooting
range would still have to come back through a public hearing at the Planning Commission and
they would attach any conditions that they think would mitigate the impacts and then you would
have a right to review that and add to or subtract from those conditions, depending on that. And
also give a chance for the neighboring uses to raise any issue that we may again, want to make
sure they address it and I think most of that’s just the compatibility with peak hours. You know
people coming in and out of the business and proximity to other uses.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Other questions for staff. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Kate, have you had any complaints from other businesses around that
area…?
Kate Aanenson: No, because we don’t have any right now but you know I think there could be.
We’ve had similar type uses that can be kind of an attractive nuisance you know back in the day
when they had arcades and some of those sort of things, they can be an attractive nuisance.
Maybe the younger groups hanging around and I think we just want to make sure that we thought
through those maybe not to be in a multi-tenant for the paintball. I think outdoors, we’ve got
plenty of acreage sites that are set up. Sometimes those are run, areas that are being used for
something else like a driving range or something like that where they’ve got the property to do
that so I don’t see that as a problem because then at dusk it’s automatically ceases so you have
kind of a limited hour. Kind of what we thought with driving ranges but when you put them
indoors and for birthday parties and that sort of thing, we just want to make, think through that a
little bit more because you don’t have the same requirements or investment that the State
regulates with the shooting range.
Councilwoman Ernst: So it wasn’t a matter of someone thinking that we were considering doing
this and then you heard complaints about it?
Kate Aanenson: No. No.
Councilwoman Ernst: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Other questions? Mr. McDonald, anything?
Councilman McDonald: No.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, and I’m comfortable, well I guess going, the question I would have for
staff is, there’s not a desire to prevent paintball. It’s just that’s not going forward at this time.
Kate Aanenson: That’s absolutely correct.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Mayor Furlong: And we can certainly bring that back once.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Gain some more comfort on that. Okay, thank you. Other, if there are no more
questions, comments from members of the council. General comfort here? I’m comfortable
going forward with this. I think it makes sense and when we tabled it last time one of the points
I wanted to emphasize was we weren’t doing it to prevent these types of uses. We want to
encourage businesses to locate here and these are businesses that bring people from outside the
area as well and so while we’re just going forward with the gun ranges this evening, I think the
paintball activities are certainly something that we would support as long as, when you’re ready
to bring it back to us.
Kate Aanenson: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: I’m sure that’s something that we would be happy to receive. If there are no
other comments on this, is there a, would somebody like to make a motion?
Councilwoman Ernst: Sure, I will.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: I make a motion we approve the attached ordinance amending Chapters
11 and 20 of the Chanhassen City Code regulating gun ranges and approval of the attached
summary ordinance for publication purposes.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing
none, we’ll proceed with the vote.
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded that the City Council
adopt the attached ordinance amending Chapter 11, Miscellaneous Provisions and
Offenses, and Chapter 20, Zoning of the Chanhassen City Code regulating gun ranges and
approval of the attached summary ordinance for publication purposes. All voted in favor
and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
HIGH ZONE WATER TOWER PROJECT 11-03: ACCEPT BIDS AND AWARD
CONTRACT.
Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor and City Council members. I just have a little background
before we discuss the bids. Before you tonight. Again tonight we’re talking about the high zone
water tower which is the high zone location is shown here in the pink area. Kind of a small, little
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
corner of Chanhassen. Approximately 12% of the distribution system that we have here in the
city, however it does see significant development in the past 15 years and also this is one of the
higher use areas in our community as well. The water tower that currently services this area was
built in 1971 and is 200,000 gallons. At that time the population was right around 4,800. Today
the population of Chanhassen is almost 23,000. Use in the high zone area can be as much as 1.8
million gallons per day. An average day use we were seeing about a half million gallons for the
use over the, over a year’s period. The high zone currently does not meet a 2 hour fire flow
demand that the Fire Marshal thinks is appropriate for this area. The tank is also, it is small for
the amount of volume that we need to service this area. It’s hard on the motors and the pumps
because the cycling of the system necessary to provide adequate water pressure as such makes it
difficult to provide a system that’s efficient as well. So with all this in consideration, and
looking at the analysis that the staff provided earlier to council, the staff is recommending a
750,000 gallon water tank for this area. I just wanted to add too the high zone and the low zone
currently, they’re not connected. We’ve got a different pressure zone so there’s no ability right
now for the city to basically pump water up to the high zone at this time. So we did look at 6
sites throughout the high zone area. Here’s just showing 4 locations that the city staff did look
on the Middle School West campus. The site that was preferred by both city staff and the school
district is site number 5 which has been advanced through this process. Currently the Melody
Hills tower is situated over on the east side of the campus. So based upon the analysis and
working with the school district the site that we identify as the least overall visible impacts to the
community, least disruptive to the school operations, it’s out of the way of the future school
campus improvements as well and it also provides a good hydraulic location for water system
distribution in this area. This is just a site plan. The grading area of the southwest portion of the
campus here. Here’s the proposed new water tower here. Retaining walls would have to be built
and then storm water treatment would also be provided that currently exists today but we’re re-
grading this area to provide for additional storm water management as well. So and also
landscaping is also provided under this contract basically replacing the trees that we need to
remove for the grading of the site. So in the bids we did bid out, did some bid alternatives and
looked at, requested prices for two types of tanks. One is a composite, concrete tower here with
a concrete, or with a steel ball on top and then also, we also bid out a steel fluted column tank
which is shown here similar to the design with the Trunk Highway 41 tower that currently exists
in our community, however this would be smaller than that one. The water tower also provides
for cellular provisions within the tank itself. Currently all of our sites, the cell tower, the cell
providers have to have their equipment outside of the tower, which is, the equipment can be
noisy. Disruptive to the community and can be kind of unsightly as well so under this design all
that equipment would be able to be installed in the tower itself and then provisions are also made
in the design for future expansion of additional cell tower providers would wish to place their
equipment on this tower. So with that we have received bids, which are shown here. There are 4
bidders that did submit for this tank. Basically we took 4 bids for composite tanks. One with the
different forms of tanks construction and then also with staining and non-staining of the tanks,
and then also we did the fluted column, the steel tank as well so we did have 2 bids there. Two
bidders that submitted bids for that type of design as well. The fluted column steel tank did
come in a little bit higher than the composite tank so we are recommending, if the council that
composite tank be awarded if so choose. This is just a graph showing the 4 bidders. Basically
the City did receive bids from the 4 main contractors nationally that build these types of towers.
This is just showing you a graph of, pie graph of how many, you know what’s the distribution of
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
each of the contractors so pretty evenly spaced out but in all, in this time period about 70
composite tanks were built nationally. So this is just a view of what the potential tower would
look like from different vantage points in the area. This is shown from Trunk Highway 41 right
at the school entrance. Kind of scale and height. Here’s the exhibit showing the potential tower
location from Lake Lucy Road and Highover Drive. From Trunk Highway 41 just more or less
on the south end of the pond looking north. And another exhibit showing a view from the school
parking lot, northeast corner. So with that project the bids that we received, the tower
construction contract is just a little over 2 million dollars. If you add in the indirect costs, soil
borings and legal and engineering costs and then the easement acquisitions the project total is
just under $2.4 million dollars, and this project was budgeted in the 2011 and 2015 capital
improvement plan and is 100% funded through the, actually the water utility fund. So storm
water, or the whole schedule if it moves forward is for the award tonight. Soil corrections and
utility improvements would take place this fall, staging for next summer construction for the
tower to actually be constructed and painting potentially at the end of the 2012, maybe into 2013
depending on weather conditions, and after that they’ll potentially be moving the Melody Hills
tower after the cell equipment is off of that facility and working through the plan to remove that
tower as well so, with that if there’s any questions I’ll be happy to try to answer them for you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Mayor I have one.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: We’ve discussed the relevancy of this tower a couple times. The fact
that it’s for safety reasons. I mean the population has I think grown 5 times what it used to be so
we’ve been through all that but one discussion we haven’t really had is the effect that this will
have on utility rates. And so can we talk about that a little bit.
Paul Oehme: Sure. And the Finance Director is here to talk about it.
Greg Sticha: Absolutely. We’ve had this tower in the CIP and in our rate study each of the last
3 or 4 years so it is currently built into our rate study for 2011 and 2012. So the current rates will
provide for the structure. We’ll be discussing the rate study again in October. Going ahead with
this project does not impact the future rates. We’ve already built that into our schedule currently
so proceeding with this project would not impact the current rates. Any future improvements,
water improvements would impact our future rate studies. This was already accounted for.
Within the current rate study.
Mayor Furlong: I guess if I can follow up on that question then Mr. Sticha, the CIP number
shows 1.9 million. This is coming in closer to 2.4. Are we understanding you that we expect
that the difference there is not going to impact utility rates?
Greg Sticha: We’ll have to look at that and other projects when we do the rate study coming up
this fall.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Mayor Furlong: So the timing of other projects or the.
Greg Sticha: It might impact the timing of other projects, that is possible.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Greg Sticha: I don’t think it will necessarily have a direct impact on actual rates but it could
impact the timing of other water projects.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Other questions. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Greg, when you were talking about this being included in the study right
now, in our rates right now, what, I mean if we’re borrowing the money, we’re borrowing 24, 2
million 400 at 3%, right basically?
Greg Sticha: And actually it’ll probably be less than that but.
Councilwoman Ernst: 2.6 or.
Greg Sticha: Yep.
Councilwoman Ernst: So how, are you saying that that money is included in the rates right now?
Greg Sticha: We planned on 1.9 plus interest costs related to it. Cost did come in a little bit
higher than that and as to Tom’s point, just previous and what we mentioned is, this could impact
other projects within the system and we may have to effect some timing of some projects but it
wouldn’t necessarily impact the actual rates that we have already set for 2011. We’ve taken this
account to the rate study for previous years so it’s not necessarily a matter of increasing rates for
this particular project but it may be a matter of prolonging a different project in future years.
Councilwoman Ernst: So you’re saying the difference that the Mayor was talking about was the
1.9 and the 2.6 or whatever it is.
Greg Sticha: 2.4, yeah.
Councilwoman Ernst: Is not going to really impact the rates. It might impact how we prioritize
our projects.
Greg Sticha: Correct.
Todd Gerhardt: And council I think one thing to point out is that our rate study from last year
did show an increase going into 2012 so I don’t think Greg is telling you that you won’t see a
rate increase. It just will not affect that rate increase.
Mayor Furlong: This particular project is not going to.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Todd Gerhardt: Right.
Mayor Furlong: Cause material effect to the utility rates.
Todd Gerhardt: Correct. Well we will have to delay $400,000 to $500,000 worth of future
projects to work it into the rate study in the future.
Mayor Furlong: Go ahead councilwoman.
Councilwoman Ernst: No, so I’m hearing that we are going to get a rate increase because that’s
what was.
Todd Gerhardt: Planned.
Councilwoman Ernst: Planned for 2012.
Todd Gerhardt: Correct.
Councilwoman Ernst: Which is 5%. I mean typically…
Greg Sticha: I believe it’s scheduled for 3% for next year but that was last year’s rate study but
there’s a whole number of variables that will take into account for this year’s rate study and we’ll
be doing that again in October-November with the City Council.
Councilwoman Ernst: So we’ll be having more conversations about this.
Greg Sticha: Yep. We will be having more conversations on the rate study for 2012. Last
year’s rate study I believe had for water rates 3% for 2012 but we’ll have to take a look at a
number of things and budgeted variables that may have impacted that rate study since last year.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. So I have a few, couple more questions. So when I look at the 2
point, almost 2.4 I went back to actually the packet dated 7/11 and when I looked at the 2 million
dollar figure there it was talking, it actually said that the easement acquisition was included in
the 2 million. Why is now an extra cost?
Paul Oehme: That was included and that was the best numbers that we had at the time. That
staff was given so those were the numbers that we went with.
Councilwoman Ernst: Well and then in the packet dated 5/11, or I’m sorry. 5/23 it says that the
engineering costs were included in the 2.1. Engineering, legal and administrative $125,000.
Paul Oehme: Again that, those numbers were the best numbers we had at the time. Were still
moving forward under the 9 and still working on final estimates I think. From the engineering
standpoint, so what staff provided was the best numbers we had at the time for the project.
13
Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Councilwoman Ernst: Well my concern is we were talking 2 million, 2 million 1 and now we’re
talking 2 million 4. I personally would, and I don’t know when the time is to do this Mayor but I
would really like to table this so that we can take a look at how can we reduce these costs. At
least to bring it back when we initially were discussing 2 million.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, the staff report mentions some potential cost savings. Mr. Oehme can
you address those right now?
Paul Oehme: Absolutely. We did look at potential cost savings as well as talking to the
contractor and in working through the process too did talk to numerous contractors throughout
the process trying to get some ideas of where we can save on construction costs but the numbers,
the $80,000 that we had included in the background were for replacing pipe materials for piping.
Going from high density polyethylene pipe to a more traditional RCP pipe for storm sewer and
then the other one was, switching out the high density polyethylene pipe for the water system to
PVC and then also removing the stairway case to the mezzanine for the cell tower providers.
Switching that all, basically using ladders. Saving about $17,000 there. So and then
dehumidification to when they paint and prime the inside of the steel tank, that was another
approximately $40,000. That’s kind of dependent on situations with humidity and air
temperatures and things like that so that’s something that we definitely want to look at, at the
time of, when that would potentially be constructed so.
Councilwoman Ernst: Well personally I’m not comfortable in really awarding the bid tonight
based on the information that we have in front of us and that’s why I’m suggesting that we table
it to essentially know all the numbers. Or at least closer than what we’re…
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme, when was the last time we built a water tower? In
Chanhassen.
Paul Oehme: Oh the last one.
nd
Todd Gerhardt: 41 and 82 Street.
Mayor Furlong: When was that?
Todd Gerhardt: I’d say that was in 2005. With the Lifetime Fitness development. Arboretum
Auto and Tire location.
Councilman Laufenburger: And how big is that, a million 5?
Paul Oehme: The one on Powers?
14
Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
nd
Councilman Laufenburger: 41 and 82.
Paul Oehme: Million and a half.
Councilman Laufenburger: Gallons?
Paul Oehme: Million and a half gallons.
Councilman Laufenburger: Just I’m wondering, do you recall how much your estimate was to
build that? Were you here at the time?
Paul Oehme: I was not here at the time. And again I’m not an expert on water tower estimates
so I rely on our consultants for that and the contractors giving us pricing on it so I mean, all I can
say is the fluctuations that, and some of the cost savings that we were anticipating were material
costs were, came in a little bit higher than they did. The site work was a lot higher than we
anticipated because it is a small site. There’s very little staging area. So a very tight constraints.
The timing of the project to you know had maybe some affect on it but so there’s kind of a host
of things that potentially added to the cost.
Councilwoman Ernst: Are we doing enough engineering costs in-house?
Paul Oehme: No. Typically we always work with consultants on that so.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Oehme.
Councilwoman Ernst: Sorry.
Mayor Furlong: Go ahead.
Councilwoman Ernst: Is that possibly an opportunity for us to take a look at for engineering?
Who’s engineering?
Paul Oehme: Oh absolutely. I mean for this project we always, you know we solicited bids for
engineering services as well too. We always.
Todd Gerhardt: Instead of in house.
Paul Oehme: For these type of projects we always get 2 or 3 quotes, bids in for engineering
services as well so.
Todd Gerhardt: Councilwoman Ernst, did you mean to bring the engineering in house?
Councilwoman Ernst: Well I just wonder if it’s an opportunity for us to maybe reduce some
costs there, I don’t know.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Todd Gerhardt: It’s pretty specialized work when you deal with water treatment plants, water
towers, even wells. The mechanical electronics that go along with it are so specialized and
changing. You know like Paul said, he hasn’t built a water tower so you know you really have to
look to an outside service.
Greg Sticha: Mayor if I could just add one more impact that might financially affect the project.
Currently interest rates are at very favorable rates and we had planned on selling bonds for this
th
water tower and do a refunding on September 12. It’s hard to tell what rates might do after that
point in time but currently interest rates are at an all time low in terms of modeling for this so,
there could be some possibly financial impacts if we were to delay it but it’s really hard to say
for sure exactly what might happen.
Councilwoman Ernst: I have a comment.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: So you know it’s not unusual for us to have these projects come back and
they seem to end up costing us more than what we initially started with, and when we take
something out to bid I would expect that we would see a reduction in cost versus additional cost,
and I know that there are some costs added in here but when we’re estimating this project, you
know the tower to come in at 2,000 which we did come in around that number pretty close but I
would expect we’d come in lower than that and I, it’s just, it seems to be more of a common
occurrence that we’re seeing these projects come back with added costs to them and with this
particular project, and I mean it’s 2 million and we’re talking about basically borrowing money
at an interest rate of 2.4, whatever that number is, I’m just not comfortable saying this is what
we’re going to do with this price so…
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Other questions for staff.
Councilman Laufenburger: I do have another question.
Mayor Furlong: Why don’t we start with Councilman McDonald and then Councilman
Laufenburger.
Councilman McDonald: I’ve got a question. I mean looking through these you know different
bids and the alternatives and everything, can you explain what the difference is? What’s a 6 foot
form and what’s the 4 foot forms? What kind of towers are those?
Paul Oehme: Councilman McDonald, they’re basically the same type of, the same composite
concrete column and the same water tower bowl structure. The only difference is that when they
construct the column, the concrete, they’re using 6 foot forms for 2 of the contractors and 4 foot
forms for the other one contractor which was Caldwell Tanks. We had, staff had some concerns
about using the 4 foot forms on this project. We’ve had some inclinations and some discussions
about some other tanks with using the 4 foot forms, not structurally but aesthetically that were a
little bit disconcerning to us so, but we allowed that bid in, that alternate bid in just to see what
the price would come in at and then make a decision from there if we wanted to accept that 4
16
Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
foot form or not so it’s basically again the same composite tank as the 6 foot forms but with a
staining alternate as well but it’s a different, just a slightly different process in terms of how they
construct it.
Councilman McDonald Okay. And the other thing I’m looking at, okay on the one that you’re
suggesting we go with the composite tank with the 6 foot forms and the stained concrete, okay
you’ve got an engineer’s estimate of what, $2.091. Does that include these other costs that
Councilwoman Ernst is talking about? The indirect cost and the easement cost or are those also
additional in with that?
Paul Oehme: Yeah that was, that was again the tower cost is 2.96.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Oehme, go back to the slide you had up before because I think that, Mr.
McDonald was on it, your question was referencing those two numbers.
Councilman McDonald: Right.
Mayor Furlong: Are they apples and apples?
Councilman McDonald: Right, are they apples and apples? I mean does that one also not
include the easement costs and the indirect cost?
Paul Oehme: Correct. This is strictly the construction cost for the tank. The engineer’s
estimate.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, and then getting to Councilwoman Ernst’s point, what were we
given? I also thought we were given a bottom line cost at some point. I mean I can understand
the difference in the bids because yes, this is a complex project from an engineering standpoint
and there’s going to be a lot of hidden things that again a vendor’s going to throw in there that
you had forgotten about or the consultant’s overlooked but I guess the concern I have is, yeah I
too thought we were getting kind of a bottom line price. Am I misunderstanding or is that again
missing information you didn’t have at that time?
Paul Oehme: I’m not quite sure exactly what bottom line price you’re referring to, I’m sorry.
Councilman McDonald: I guess okay, you go to the next slide on the presentation and we have
indirect costs of $141,000. Easement costs of $150 and if I understood Councilwoman Ernst, she
thought the easement cost was included in the information that we have been given.
Paul Oehme: Right, and.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah okay, go ahead.
Paul Oehme: I’m sorry, it was included in the last background that we had and that was again,
that was the best information I had at the time.
17
Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Councilman McDonald: Okay, but in your engineer’s estimate it’s not included, am I hearing
that right?
Paul Oehme: Under this engineer’s estimate it is not included.
Todd Gerhardt: We’ve modified the engineer’s estimate from what was originally 1.9?
Paul Oehme: Again, yeah the last background I think was 2 million dollars with the easement
acquisition included in that.
Todd Gerhardt: Just the tower itself.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Todd Gerhardt: How much was that?
Paul Oehme: I can’t, I don’t remember what it was off the top of my head.
Councilman Laufenburger: Well wouldn’t that be the same as the CIP?
Paul Oehme: It’s, yeah it’d be just a little bit more…
Councilman Laufenburger: So it’s a 10% variance. 10% variance on this $2,091,000 versus the
1 million 9 that was in the CIP.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Mayor Furlong: We can see why the numbers changed or what they changed. I guess the
question I would have, and maybe this is a question for the engineering consulting firm but what
changed in terms of the, was it the, what changed in terms of the construction? From a material
standpoint, design standpoint, inclusions, exclusions, what changed that caused the engineer’s
estimate to increase?
Paul Oehme: I mean just looking at the bids, this is basically, this is just I want show you. This
is the breakdown of what was originally in the CIP and was bid out so basically the change, the
main change is the site work. It was, again it’s a, the grading that was associated with the
project.
Mayor Furlong: I’m sorry, what’s included in the site work?
Paul Oehme: The site work, it includes the grading. The utility work. The landscaping work.
That type of infrastructure. Moving the, there’s a section of sanitary sewer that has to be
relocated. That was included in there too. That was not in the original you know estimate so.
Mayor Furlong: And when did we find out about those? Was it, were those known back when
this site was first recommended? I mean we were looking at multiple sites.
18
Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Paul Oehme: Well yeah, we were looking at multiple sites and I think back then it was
identified later on in the development process. I think from a cost standpoint though, the sites
that we looked at, at the school site and elsewhere, I mean this site would still I feel be, still be
the cost, most cost effective. Based on these numbers and what we’re seeing right now in the
market for steel and concrete and all the other utility work that we have.
Mayor Furlong: And so then the question would be is, is based upon what we know for this site,
what are the opportunities by spending more time looking at the design or at the cost to, to
change what these are going to be? I mean clearly the site work, that explains most of the
change in the total project. Are there alternatives there that could be, by changing the scope of
the project? Are there alternatives available to us that would reduce those costs?
Paul Oehme: I mean we’ve looked for those cost savings and it’s tough because we still need to
treat the water, the storm water off the site. We still need to put in the utilities at this location.
You know we talked about switching out some of the pipe materials and some cost reductions
there and some additional you know changes to the structure itself but in terms of major cost
savings changes, I don’t see any out there right now for this site.
Mayor Furlong: And the other major change was with the tank. The difference between an
estimate of, if I’m reading this correctly, $1.75 per gallon versus $2.03.
Paul Oehme: Exactly.
Mayor Furlong: Which is the bid. What changed there?
Paul Oehme: Yep. The main change there, and again I should back up a little bit. The CIP
estimate again was basically looking at what was included in the 2008 comp plan, which is
basically the relocating or constructing the tower just basically adjacent to the existing Melody
Hills tower so basically the estimate that was put forward in the CIP was to build, construct a
tower at that location basically so back in 2009 when we put this estimate together, you know
and in 2010 we did have some preliminary discussions with the school district but we didn’t get
into the nuts and bolts about where the tower will be sited so I mean that ultimate site 1 that’s
shown here is basically a flat piece of ground. The utilities are right there. Easy to connect to so
the site grading work is very minimal at that location. You know unfortunately that site does not
work, did not work out for numerous reasons when we went through the process.
Mayor Furlong: And if I can interrupt. Explain some of those reasons because by moving it to
site #5, it’s obviously increasing the cost of the total project.
Paul Oehme: Absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: Beyond what was expected and what was in some earlier staff reports.
Paul Oehme: Exactly.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Mayor Furlong: So what’s justifying, in your mind in terms of selecting site 5?
Paul Oehme: Right.
Mayor Furlong: The higher cost.
Paul Oehme: Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. Altering site 1 here, more visual impacts to the
neighborhood. Moving that tank to more onto the school grounds would have significant visual
impacts to several of the property owners in that location so that was a big detriment. Even
moving the tank right to the property line at the school would potentially impact some of the
soccer fields at that location. Shrinking them up and, or maybe eliminating a soccer field at that
time so those two are the biggest reasons that you know led us away from that alternate site and
just basically working through the school district too. They just didn’t feel that was the best
location to site that tower on their property so with all those factors involved, you know we had
to move on and look for alternate locations.
Councilman McDonald: Can I ask a question about that because yeah, there’s $100,000 there
that’s different between your estimate and I think what’s coming out on the easement cost.
Okay, why did that go up over $100,000 and if the school is so involved in all this because of
what they want, meaning yeah they probably don’t want to lose the soccer field and everything
so we give up a perfectly good site to move to another site, what kind of sharing are we getting
there as far as cost breaks and stuff and is there some room there to bring this down?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, and you know we had those discussions too. The problem with the site
that’s being picked is, there’s significant more easement that we need, temporary easement,
construction easements and then also access, future access to the water tower would have to go
through their parking lot as well too, so that’s the reason for the increase in the easement cost.
Land acquisition basically between what was originally in the CIP versus what we’re, what we
have before us tonight.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Oehme one of the, as I understood when at our last meeting when we talked
about bringing this forward now versus waiting til next meeting when we have, when we’re also
going through the bond sale process. What was the reason? Is there, what’s the potential cost
for delay?
Paul Oehme: The impacts are, staff had envisioned trying to get the project off the ground as
soon as we can just because there is a lot of grading work that has to be done to the site. There is
a lot of foundation work that we would like to get in this year and then there’s also some
significant utility work that would also, that was also envisioned to take place this fall. A lot of
that work, excuse me was scheduled or planned for to try to take care of this fall to let the, go
through the freeze thaw cycle for that soil so it settles out a little bit better and then we’ll start
construction of the tower next summer after school’s over with so. You know in order to get all
that work in this year we were trying to have the construction start as early as we can in
September.
Mayor Furlong: I’m sorry, could you repeat that. Construction start when?
20
Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Paul Oehme: Try to have the construction start in September because the later we postpone it
you know weather conditions are problematic.
Mayor Furlong: And if this was deferred to our next meeting would we be able to still start
construction in September if it was approved at that time? When do we meet next? September
th
12?
th
Paul Oehme: September 12 I think, yeah. Yeah, it’ll be tough. I mean it would probably have
to start in October is typically, a 10 day turnaround for contracts and what not plus mobilization.
This contractor’s out of state.
Mayor Furlong: Is there an opportunity by not getting the site work done this fall and pushing it
to next year that we could reduce the cost of this project? And do the site work next year and
then looking at construction either next year or the following year?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, the contract is set up for the utility work to, grading work to take place this
fall so I mean I think you know there might be potentially some costs involved with postponing
the project til next year.
Mayor Furlong: Some cost savings or increased costs?
Paul Oehme: Potentially cost increases so, I mean that’s something that we’d have to work out
with the city attorney in terms of if we still wanted to keep these bids award of contract and
delay the construction to next year. It might just be more problem, you know better to just re-bid
it out in the spring if we wanted to do that.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Paul Oehme: The other issue too, I just recall that the foundation work, the piles that have to go
in there, they’re auger cast piles. The contractor that does that work is out of Kansas City so
that’s basically, you know it’s, I don’t know what his schedule would be to delay it.
Mayor Furlong: And was that work that was going to be done this fall?
Paul Oehme: That was the work that was going to be done this fall, right so. Just letting you
know what’s.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: Mr. Mayor, council members.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Gerhardt.
Todd Gerhardt: On the different sites proposed at the middle school, we do not have agreement
with the school district on price or location so it wasn’t until probably May when we determined
21
Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
the location for the water tower. We were concentrating on the one closest to the parking lot and
then you know that did not work with the school district’s long range plans so that’s when we
went to the other alternative.
Mayor Furlong: And the site selection obviously affects the, you took it down but the site work
costs.
Paul Oehme: The site work.
Mayor Furlong: So which site number it is is immaterial, or could materially affect those
costs…
Todd Gerhardt: And the $50,000 figure for land cost’s that Paul used in 2008, he was just
bumping out where the existing water tower was and that impacted the school district soccer
field so that wasn’t an alternative.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I have a question.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: What we’re paying the school district, the $150,000 for the site, how
did that number appear? How did we decide 150 was what we were going to be paying? Was it
an assessed value or how did we come upon that number?
Paul Oehme: That’s the number that staff negotiated with the school district. There was no
appraisals associated with that.
Todd Gerhardt: Based on the amount of easement, we have access easement from 41 that takes
us through their driveway, through their parking lot, around the building and then approximately
just under an acre of land to the west of the school. So based on you know negotiations with Dr.
Peterson and myself, that’s the number we came up with.
Mayor Furlong: You say it’s just under an acre.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Plus the access.
Todd Gerhardt: The access easement.
Mayor Furlong: And temporary easements.
Paul Oehme: There’s another I think ¾ of an acre for temporary easements as well.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
22
Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Councilman Laufenburger: Is there an easement with any property owner other than the
Minnetonka School District? Any cost to anybody besides the Minnetonka School District?
Todd Gerhardt: No.
Paul Oehme: No.
Councilman Laufenburger: So that private party which is just to the south.
Paul Oehme: That’s not part of this.
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions?
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Yep.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme, when we did the Arboretum Boulevard project, I heard
reports, I think this was last fall I think. I was not yet on the council but I heard reports that the
project actually came in lower than estimated costs. Is that true?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: How much lower?
Paul Oehme: Oh it was six figures. I don’t know off the top of my head. For street projects I
mean I think we’ve been doing a great, a good service. I think most of our street projects have
come in at or under budget. For street reconstructions and just this year the 2011 overlay project,
that came in under budget as well so.
Councilman Laufenburger: So most of the work that we, that you have shown to the council, the
work product reflecting cost estimates, etc, that’s less your own staff work and more consulting
engineering work, is that correct? Or is it more your own staff work and less consulting
engineering work?
Paul Oehme: It’s, it’s a little bit of both. For the street reconstruction projects we do have to
have assistance from consultants for those type of projects. For our overlay projects that we do
in-house and sealcoat projects, those type of things, those are our own estimates.
Councilman Laufenburger: Obviously the more you do things the better you get at them.
Paul Oehme: Absolutely.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Maybe we need to build more water towers.
Paul Oehme: No we don’t.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Todd Gerhardt: Just one more.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions? If not, let’s bring it to council for comments and
discussion. Who’d like to start?
Councilman McDonald Well I guess I’ll start so I can get the ball rolling on all this. Yeah, I’m
a little troubled by the costs that are coming in. I’m a little troubled by the process working with
the school district. Yeah I’ve got some particular questions there that I really just don’t feel I can
ask at this point because of a conflict I’ve got but something there bothers me about the whole
thing. The cost we’re paying for under an acre of land versus I know what we’re doing for some
other things, it just seems like we’re not following the same process and it’s costing us in this
case. It feels as though we’re between a rock and a hard place because we’ve already approved
that this tower needs to go in. There’s a need for it. We go through all this. Yeah maybe I
didn’t ask the right questions but I’m surprised at the land preparation cost. That’s significantly
higher. There’s two areas I think where costs have suddenly popped up. I’m not sure it’s
anybody’s fault but yeah the easement and the cost to repair the site is significantly higher than
what it came through the council and that does tend to push it up but I’m just not sure if I can
vote to delay it because it would go up. It’ll go up significantly and it always does. If you think
we’re going to get a bargain by waiting 6 weeks or 8 weeks or delaying construction until next
spring, it’s not going to happen because I’m sure the bid that we put out, it’s only good based
upon a schedule that we put in there which means that they have the right to re-bid and they will
and the costs will go up. So yeah I feel as though what I’m having to vote for is a need versus a,
yeah we’re going to take it in the shorts. That’s my opinion about this but that’s kind of where I
feel we’re at and I’m not sure if we can delay it.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other comments. Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’d like to listen to other comments first before I comment.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Well being in procurement I know that material costs in terms of indexes
are going down currently and they’re going down significantly except copper. So quite honestly
I wouldn’t have a problem delaying this, and again I stated my case. I’d really like to see us
bring this back to where we started.
Mayor Furlong: To a 2 million dollar project?
Councilwoman Ernst: (Yes.)
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Mr. Laufenburger.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor, council members. I think the decision that I am in
support of is, the City needs this water tower for various reasons which we’ve already said yes
to. I think the best thing that we as a city council can do, can execute on that decision which is
we should be building this water tower for that, for our community. For the safety in the
community because population has increased for all of those reasons and then I think we have an
obligation to expect our staff to do the best job that they can to execute on our decision to do the
best things for our citizens. Now Councilman McDonald’s right. $100,000 in land cost and
$387,000 in site work, that’s the difference between 1.9 and 2.387. Had the decision been made
to build the water tower right next to Melody Hill, probably that 380, or that 487 might have
been, that difference wouldn’t be there. So we’re choosing the best site for the water tower and
there’s an expense associated with that. There’s an expense of we didn’t know all of the things
that we know now about site work. Apparently we didn’t know everything we knew about land
costs but the key decision that we made was, we’re in support of building a water tower that
services the high zone so as hard as it is for me to accept a, what amounts to about a probably
23% increase versus what we first heard, as Councilwoman Ernst has brought to our attention, I
don’t think we have a choice and I would be in favor of moving forward. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. I guess listening to Councilman Laufenburger’s comments and
previous comments by Councilwoman Ernst, Mr. Oehme in terms of getting the cost down to the
objective for Councilwoman Ernst of 2 million dollars. What would that entail? Can we do that
at this site? Can we get by with a smaller tower? What can be done?
Paul Oehme: Well I mean we went through the process of can this be a smaller tank and you
know we could build a smaller tank and keep the Melody Hills tank but I think in the long term
that does cost the City more money down the road just for maintenance and any time you have
two of something it’s always going to cost you more to maintain so from that standpoint size,
that was a recommendation was to build it, the 750,000 gallon tank and remove the Melody Hills
tank. The site work, you know that was our biggest struggle going into this site. It’s difficult for
us to I think remove or reduce those costs just because the site is what the site is. I mean if costs
a certain amount of dollars to move you know 5,000 cubic yards of material to grade this site out.
To put the utilities in. Those are more or less fixed costs. The tower at this site versus the first
site that we looked at in 2008 is 30 feet higher at this site than the other site. You know we
wouldn’t recommend lowering the tower down another 30 feet because then the pressure, the
water pressure in this area will definitely change to be lower so in terms of a cost savings you
know there, it is pretty tough. When we went through this process with the Planning
Commission we had looked at additional aesthetic features. Maybe some brick work on the
outside and some other features to that effect. I mean all those things were, we basically had not
recommended moving forward with. This is pretty much bare bones tower as we see it here
today without you know plus the staining which was you know very cost effective.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilwoman Tjornhom, anything at this time?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah. No one likes to increase cost obviously and if there was, when
you’re looking at the land costs, I’m not sure that I personally can go ahead and change those. I
think those costs are what they are. I think the reasons why they are was described very well by
our city manager and Paul Oehme, our city engineer just described what the construction costs
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
are. The improvements of the site and I don’t think that we can change those either. I think
those costs are what they are and so while we all were very excited about 2 million dollars 5
months ago, that’s not what it is and unfortunately sometimes that’s what happens when you’re
building a water tower. I don’t know if I’m willing to risk material costs being less next year
versus what interest rates are going to be. None of us have crystal balls that sit up here and so
none of us can predict what’s going to happen with the markets no matter if they’re money or if
it’s material or whatever else it is. What we can do is make our best judgment for what we have
today and as far as I’m concerned it’s a tough pill to swallow but, to the increase cost but it’s one
that it’s necessary. I don’t think that I’m going to take, I don’t think it’s wise and I’ve been told
it’s not wise to bring that engineering in-house. I just have visions of children wearing life
jackets on when they go to school, no offense Paul but I just think we’re going to leave that to
the professionals and so you know these costs are what they are. It was a matter of public safety.
It has been in our plans and so with that being said I am more than willing to go ahead and move
forward with this.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. I think my sentiments are similar to what I’ve heard expressed and
I understand all the concerns that have been expressed. Clearly I think what is difficult here, and
Councilman Laufenburger mentioned it a little bit when you were talking about other projects.
The last major improvement made in our city other than streets I think was the public works
building, which was a significant project. I think those costs, you’re building a building. Things
come up but overall that came in under budget. Under the estimates. We found cost savings.
Going back to other than another water tower, the water treatment plant itself. There was a lot of
discussion and depending upon the features and benefits and where you located it and such, those
costs swung wildly yet we ended up finding the best value overall for the site and I think that’s
what we need to be looking at here. I can’t support building a smaller water tower here and
keeping two up there when that’s going to increase our long term costs. That’s a penny wise,
pound foolish process that doesn’t make sense and isn’t something that this council has done
before and I don’t see us starting that now. I think there clearly is a need because in this case the
real costs of this project is coming in greater than what we estimated and we’re going to have to
take a look at the CIP and probably make some changes there and, because what we’re hearing
now, what we’ve heard for the last several months as a council from staff is that this is our
priority. This is the priority that we need to do right now in terms of our water utility service.
Nobody likes voting for a project that comes in higher than the estimates but I think we can see
where those numbers changed and why they changed and I think that it does make sense to move
forward. It’s needed for life safety reasons as well as for regular utility use and I think what I’ve
heard tonight, while I like, if more time gave us a better opportunity to modify or reduce the cost
I would support that. I’m not hearing that. I’m not hearing that. We’d have to materially
change the project and go with something less than where the best value is, and even though this
costs are higher what I’ve been hearing with the answers being given is that this is still the best
value for the City. Mr. Oehme, am I right on that? Is that a fair statement?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, so if this is the best value, and we know that it’s needed, and as much as
the costs are higher than we think it was going to be, I think it’s still is a wise decision and the
best decision we can make is to go forward at this time. Any other thoughts or comments?
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I just have one question.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: When you were discussing the public works building, we hired a
project manager for that. Is that something that’s needed or is it something that would apply to
this?
Paul Oehme: It could. Typically those project managers they work on multi-million dollar
projects. You know 8, 10, 15 million dollar projects. This one’s a little bit smaller. Also the
public works building we utilized bidding out each individual segment of the project, not just
having one prime contractor. Under these tower scenarios it’s really next to impossible to
implement that type of bidding process so.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Thank you.
Councilwoman Ernst: Mayor, I have one comment.
Mayor Furlong: Yes, Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: I’ve heard several times that each of the council members have said that
this is something we need. I’m not going to disagree with the fact that we need it. What I
disagree with is the additional cost…into the project. I just want for the record that that I’m not
saying that we don’t need it because I believe that we do. It’s just a matter of how much are we
going to pay for it.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Any other comments? Discussion. Thoughts. Would somebody like to
make a motion?
Councilman Laufenburger: I will.
Mayor Furlong: Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor I move that the City Council accepts the bids as received
and awards a contract to CB&I in the amount of $2,096,001 for a new high zone composite
water tower located on Minnetonka School District 276 property at 6421 Hazeltine Boulevard.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Is there any discussion on the motion?
Resolution #2011-50: Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom
seconded that the City Council accepts the bids as received and awards a contract to CB&I
27
Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
in the amount of $2,096,001 for a new high zone composite water tower located on
Minnetonka School District 276 property at 6421 Hazeltine Boulevard. All voted in favor,
except Councilwoman Ernst who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you everybody. Move on now to the next item under our agenda.
TH 5 SIGNAL REPAINTING (CENTURY BOULEVARD-DAKOTA AVENUE):
ACCEPT QUOTES.
Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor, City Council members. This item is in the CIP for repainting,
recoating the signal systems on 5, as the Mayor said. The impetus for this, MnDOT’s standard
agreement that we have with the state agency is for local agencies basically to responsible for
maintaining the minor maintenance of the signal system which includes painting and typically
the lights and other electrical miscellaneous improvements to the, or maintenance of those
signals so it’s our responsibility to, for those costs if we so choose to, stick, have money
allocated for maintenance of these type of systems. Most of the signals on 5 are severely rusted.
They range in-between 30 years old all the way up to 10 years old so, but most of the signals
along 5 are needing some maintenance work, and basically it’s for cosmetic reasons that the
signal systems are just look a little bit like they need some help basically. And then also the
signals, if they’re left long enough that rust will eventually eat away at the structural integrity of
the signals system and basically pull the mast arm and potentially require replacement of those
signals prematurely and then the City would end up having to participate in those costs for that
type of replacement as well if the City has a leg or a street connecting to that signal system. So
just a few photos staff has taken of the signals along 5. This is from 5 and Dakota. Dakota
Avenue, the signal here. This is at the southeast corner and then also here’s the mast arm of the
signal system. Just starting to rust. Paint chipping off of it. Here’s a signal at 5 and Great
Plains. Same thing. More rusting taking place at the base of the signal system where salt and
more moisture is happen to come in contact with the steel. 5 and Market basically the same
thing too. Lots of rusting at the base and up the column as well and 5 and Powers so basically
consistent rusting and chipping of paint so. What the staff has proposed is for those signals to be
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painted basically the same color as we painted the downtown signal system on 78 Street. The
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darker brown. That was done on 78 Street and we’ve had some good comments on that color.
This color was also utilized under the County trunk highway, or County, Lyman Boulevard
project next to the school so those are just basically matching the same colors that we used for all
of the signal systems that have been used and repainted here in the last 10 years. So here’s the
signal systems that would be proposed to be repainted. There are 7 total. The only signal within
the community that, on 5 that would not be proposed to be painted at this time is the one off of
41. Trunk highway 41 in the western part of the community. That signal system is very new and
does not need painting at this time. So staff did receive two quotes for this project. The
engineer’s estimate was $85,000. That one, we did, 6 contractors did entertain submitting bids
for this project as well. We did talk to several contractors and for various reasons they did not
want to submit a bid for this project at this time so staff is proposing that the council move
forward with the project and repaint the signal system, 7 signal systems. Funding for this project
is proposed to come out of the pavement management fund so with that if there’s any questions, I
can try to answer them.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: I’ve got a couple questions for you. If we do this, how long will it
last?
Paul Oehme: You know working with MnDOT, we’ve worked with MnDOT on this project
significantly and they feel about 15 years. We can get a decent life out of the paint.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, and then the other question, why I asked that was, you know
recently right next to these lights are the power poles and NSP was going to paint those. What
they determined was they were too far gone to paint and so they replaced them. Some of those
pictures that you showed right there look pretty bad. Are you sure you’ve got enough structure
integrity in those posts that it’s going to last for 15 years?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, we did have that conversation with MnDOT as well too and MnDOT does
not have any plans to replace these signal systems in the next 15 years either so, and MnDOT
does, they do some spot inspections on their signal systems so at this time MnDOT does not have
any plans to replace any of these signals along Highway 5.
Councilman McDonald: Okay but before we go and spend this much money I think we ought to
know it’s going to last for 15 years. I mean have you done that analysis yet? You know have we
looked at it independent from MnDOT because MnDOT has no vested interest in this. Sure, the
City can spend the money and if it fails in 5-6 years, big deal. They’ll just come back to the City
and we’ll buy all new lights. Have we looked at it that you know this is a good investment?
Paul Oehme: From an aesthetic standpoint I think it’s a good investment. From a longevity
standpoint, you know I’m not an expert I guess in painting, coating. I know we do have priming
of the signal systems and the contractor, they need to sand down those rough areas and the areas
that are significantly rusting at this time. Prime those areas up and then coat them again so there
is a two coat application in most of these areas that are seeing significant deterioration or rusting
so, I mean we’ve, we probably have to talk to a materials expert in terms of paint selection. I
mean the paints that we’re using are again, they’re recommended by MnDOT using their
specifications and they do this a lot more than we do.
Councilman McDonald: Okay well that has nothing to do with it. If the underlying surface is
not viable you can put the best paint in the world on there and that’s not going to hold the post up
and I guess what I’m getting to is what assurances do we have that we spend this money, it’s
good for 15 years and the answer to me seems to come back to what’s the metal like. You know
can we sand it down and are we going to be able to paint it and it’s still viable or are we just you
know whistling in the wind here that it’s going to rust again anyway because now you’ve worn
away so much of the metal that you know you lose the ability for the coatings or something
because again on the inside it rusts from the inside too and on that one picture you showed
evidently we have a lot of water that comes down here from someplace because it’s gotten into
the base also. What assurances do we have that this is going to last for 15 years and this is a
good use of our money to do this instead of going out and saying no, these posts need to be
replaced and going back to MnDOT?
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Paul Oehme: You know we’d have to do some more forensic analysis I think is an answer to
your question. We’d have to hire somebody that has an expertise in paint coatings. Do some
analysis on thickness of the steel of the signals themselves and determine you know the
likelihood of failure in the next 15 years for the process that we’re proposing.
Councilman McDonald: The only reason I ask is because NSP just went through this and their
decision was they replaced those posts.
Paul Oehme: I think to Xcel’s standpoint, that was a different metal that they were using as
opposed to this signal system. This is more your standard steel and that’s the, a different steel so
I think that system’s a little bit harder to paint than what we’re talking about under this scenario
but I understand your concern and I guess I can’t answer fully at this time.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Other questions for staff? Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme are those, the pictures that you showed, are those
original structure? Original paint?
Paul Oehme: They are.
Councilman Laufenburger: When were they put in, do you know?
Paul Oehme: The, I should have brought that. The System A here, which is Dakota Avenue,
that was put in 1979.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Paul Oehme: The ones along Powers and Great Plains, I think those are closer to 15 years old if
I recall correctly. The systems out west farther those are I think in the 10 year range.
Councilman Laufenburger: And do they all show similar rust?
Paul Oehme: Most of the signal systems that I’m showing you are all, show similar rusting and
flaking off of the paint system. You know the signal systems west, Audubon, Galpin and.
Councilman Laufenburger: Century.
Paul Oehme: Century, they’re not as bad but they’re still showing some signs of deterioration of
the painting system.
Councilman Laufenburger: So it sounds like one thing you wanted to accomplish is to have all
of these signals visually appear the same. The same brown color as you showed on the one, is
that correct?
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Paul Oehme: Yeah, consistency did play a factor in what we were proposing here.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Are there other signal posts in the city for which we’re
responsible for painting?
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Paul Oehme: Trunk Highway 101 and 78 Street just north of Highway 5. That’s another
system that we’d be responsible for.
Councilman Laufenburger: Does it need painting?
Paul Oehme: Not at this time. No, that one’s fairly new too. I don’t know the age of that signal
system. But again on Trunk Highway 212 all the signal systems that were constructed in
conjunction with that project that are, have MnDOT jurisdiction over them, those are all signal
systems that we would potentially, or we do have maintenance responsibilities for them. We’ve
gone out and replaced the lights for those signal systems before. We do pay for the power of
those systems and potentially down the road we would be responsible for painting those systems
too.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Then one last question. I recall that there’s some discussion
around the improvement of 41, excuse me. Of Highway 5 from 41 into Victoria. There was
also a related project of re-timing signals, am I remembering that correctly?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Does the re-timing of the signals, would that affect these
light poles?
Paul Oehme: Yeah.
Councilman Laufenburger: Is it something that could be done even though they’re repainted?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, they will be. They can be done with or without that.
Councilman Laufenburger: So that’s an electronics thing as opposed to this is a visual?
Paul Oehme: Exactly and I believe MnDOT’s putting some fiber optic in along 5 there so
coordinate those systems better. Putting some cameras in as well too so I did have that
conversation with MnDOT. I asked them again if we could partner together too when they bid
out their work, can we tag along and do the signal painting at the same time and they weren’t
agreeing to that but. And the two projects are completely separate so they’re completing
independent of each other so.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Other questions.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I just have one quick question.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom, that’s fine.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Going back to the painting and the color.
Paul Oehme: Sure.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’m surprised that you can paint them brown. Is the whole thing
going to be brown or does at least the base have to be like yellow for safety reasons or.
Paul Oehme: No. No. Eden Prairie’s gone through the same discussion that we have, and if you
look on 5, their signals on Dell and east of there, they painted all their signal systems green as
well. If you go into Chaska, Chaska has the same green as well too.
Mayor Furlong: Green? Green or brown?
Paul Oehme: Green.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I think our’s will be brown but I think their’s are green.
Paul Oehme: Yep.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: It just fascinates me that there are, that you shouldn’t have to have
some sort of vibrant color to warn people not to drive into a post or something.
Paul Oehme: I know Minnetonka has painted their’s more of a black color in the past.
Councilman Laufenburger: So would stripes be available?
Mayor Furlong: Other questions? Councilwoman Ernst, any questions? Does the contract
include any warranty on the part of the contractor or the paint? For the coating.
Paul Oehme: It does not. It does not include a, I think I’m sorry. It does include I think a 6, 3
month warranty. It’s a short little warranty typically for these type of projects. They do not
extend more over a year timeframe.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. You said, if I heard you correctly, in order to estimate what the integrity
of the metal, of the structure you’d have to hire somebody. Materials expert. Any idea what that
would cost?
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Paul Oehme: A forensicing inspection like that I, it’s, I really don’t have any. It’s going to be a
couple thousand dollars at least to have somebody run out there and take a structural analysis.
Look at the thickness of the steel. You know make a recommendation.
Mayor Furlong: Is the, did the two companies that bid on this, did they come out and inspect
the?
Paul Oehme: I know the low bidder did come out and inspect the project. I’m not aware if the
other one, if he came out or not.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. What’s the timing on this one in terms of?
Paul Oehme: Well the staff, you know and the contract is.
Todd Gerhardt: 60 days.
Paul Oehme: Yep.
Todd Gerhardt: Did you add 60 days on bids?
Paul Oehme: Yeah. It’s 60 days to hold the bids. We’re trying to have the project completed by
the middle of October I think so, and I don’t have that in the background but it’s, end of the year
basically to have the signals painted.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And is there a temperature requirements in terms of the painting or the
coating?
Paul Oehme: Yeah there is.
Mayor Furlong: The temperature, it has to be warmer than so the weather can be a factor.
Paul Oehme: Right. And we were anticipating trying to get most of it, most of the painting done
in September.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. One of the options before you could be to delay this until
spring. Potentially get more bidders on the project. If you want a special study done to
determine if it warrants paint due to the rusting that’s occurring already, that could give us time
between now and then. Surprised by two bidders on a project like this and one that just probably
just threw some numbers on a paper but you know this isn’t time crucial to be done this fall.
How much time and effort went into the bidding process would you estimate?
Paul Oehme: This was a quote process. We solicited bids from you know several different
areas. Contractors. Talking to MnDOT. Talking to other cities that have done these type of
projects and gotten names and numbers from them so, then also looking up in the phone book so.
You know we’ve tried to get as many bidders on this project as we can. Unfortunately we
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
weren’t successful enough to, or contractors had various different reasons why they didn’t bid on
the project so.
Todd Gerhardt: So how many do you think you sent out to?
Paul Oehme: Well we sent specifications out to 6.
Todd Gerhardt: Six.
Paul Oehme: That were interested and I know we’ve talked to at least another 5, maybe 6
contractors that said they weren’t interested.
Todd Gerhardt: And that was due to the fact that they were just busy.
Paul Oehme: Well either busy or they didn’t do that type of work or different various reasons.
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions? At this point. Thoughts. Comments. Councilwoman
Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah, I tend to agree with Councilman McDonald and the city
manager that it could be reasonable to delay it for a while, until spring. I think they’ll still be
there springtime and it might then allow more people to bid on the process and in the meantime
Councilmember McDonald’s concerns maybe could be addressed, whether about the structural
integrity or what could be done or what needs to be done.
Mayor Furlong: I guess just to interject a thought for council to consider, and Mr. Oehme I’ll
start with a question. What I heard was that the low bidder came out and inspected the site so
they may have some thoughts as to the structural integrity. Maybe not from a materials
standpoint but from experts in terms of painting these so would you, do you think you’d be able
to, prior to our next meeting. We have these bids in hand. Prior to our next meeting one talk to
TMI Coatings in terms of what their inspection revealed and addressing Mr. McDonald’s
concerns. Possibly get some estimates of what it would cost to hire a materials expert rather than
just, you know so we’d have something to base on what the timing of that would be. And then
two, also as you talk to TMI Coatings find out if the decision is made at our next meeting, if they
would still be able to get it done within this timeframe of these quotes so we don’t necessarily
have to wait til next spring.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: No, I’m fine with that.
Mayor Furlong: If we can get the information back and then we’d have the information that I’m
hearing would be, would give us better information with which to make a decision either to
accept these bids and move forward this fall or to defer to next spring. Does that kind of seem to
make some sense?
Councilman McDonald: Yeah, I mean that all kind of satisfies me. It just, it seems if we’re
going to spend that kind of money we ought to know what we’re spending it on because I would
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
hate 5 years from now all of a sudden to come back to a future council and well that paint job,
yeah it still looks good but come up with some more money because the posts are falling down.
I don't know if they are or not. I'm not a materials engineer. I just know that from an
engineering standpoint yeah, you need answers before you do something and you've got to be
careful who you get the answers from. I don't think MnDOT, I don't think it's in their best
interest to try to tell you well yeah, you probably wasted your money. They're not going to be of
any benefit. I would question the vendor as to maybe all they're looking at is well yeah I can put
paint on it so it's okay as far as I'm concerned. I don't know, if you can just answer the
question that we're going to get our money's worth out of this and it's going to last.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilman McDonald: That's all I'm asking for.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council members. You should make a motion to table this item until our
next meeting.
Councilman McDonald: Okay I'll make the motion to table this meeting until our next, or I'll
make the motion to table this item until our next meeting in order to give staff time to evaluate
the questions asked as to the viability of the post for painting and the longevity of any paint job
that would be put on there.
Councilwoman Ernst: I'll second.
Councilman McDonald: Is that too long?
Mayor Furlong: Motion's been made and seconded to table. We'll proceed with the vote.
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded to table accepting quotes
for the Highway 5 signal repainting project in order to give staff time to evaluate the
questions asked as to the viability of the posts for painting and the longevity of any paint
job that would be put on there. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously
with a vote of 5 to 0.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: None.
CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION.
Mayor Furlong: Any discussion on the correspondence packet?
Councilman Laufenburger: I do have one Mr. Mayor.
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Chanhassen City Council - August 22, 2011
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: I read the letter from Mr. Jensen of Mediacom and I was unclear as
to exactly what he was telling us. First of all he indicates that Mediacom if adjusting their,
they’re transforming their TV channel lineup to all digital which will bring faster internet, more
channels, etc but it was unclear to me exactly when that was going to take place. And also he
explained that there’s a digital adapter that will be available to all Mediacom subscribers. Well
being a Mediacom subscriber I was concerned about what I had to do to get one of those things
so I sent a note to Mr. Jensen and he clarified, and his answer is, if I can find it here just for a
second. Excuse me. By the way he also congratulated Chanhassen on it’s award by Money
Magazine. Here we go. The digital conversion is expected to be completed by Thanksgiving
th
and indeed, phase I conversion on or about November 29. The second conversion date
thth
December 13 and he said yes, the digital adapters will be available as early as September 19
th
but they won’t be needed until December 13. And also how will the subscribers be able to get
th
them? They can go to the Chanhassen office on or after September 19. And he also used his
response to indicate to me that they will be conducting an open house at their facility on
th
Thursday, November 10 which they will be advertising so.
Mayor Furlong: Very good, thank you. Any other discussion on the correspondence packet?
Hearing none, if there’s nothing to come before the council, more to come before the council this
evening, is there a motion to adjourn?
Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman McDonald seconded to adjourn the
meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The
City Council meeting was adjourned at 9:25 p.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
36