1l. Approval of BillsFEB RUARY 1 7, 1995
2 Gross Check
3 Check Em� - --
_ Amount -- Depc
a Number Nbr Employee Name. -__._. - - - - - -- Pay----- - - - - -- ------ - - - - -- -- -_
5 - -- - -- - - -- 2,606.92 1,399.52
- - - --
5 015147 1201 ASHWORTH, DONALD * **
1,700.26 1 ,123.63
7� 015148 1202 ENSELHARDT, KAREN J 1,134.40 778.24 * **
� ;s 015149 1203 DUMMER, NIKKI 944.45 __...__688.5 * **
9 015150 1 206 SC HULLER,_NORMAML "
�0 015151 1207 BURMEISTER, GINA 916.92 659.47 * **
1 871.18 **
If>> 015152 1209 OPHEIM, JANANN 0. 2,068.26 1,128.09 **
,s 05 1210 GERH ARDT, TODD R. -
_. - - -- _ .- _._ -___ . 858.32_
151 __ * **
13 015154 1301 MEUWISSEN, MARY JEAN
1 869.23
' 13 1,770.11
' 14- 015155 03 CHAFFEE, THOMAS L. 1,347.46 * **
t �s 015156 1 304 T H_I BOD EAU, CHRISTINE 1.,2 -12.00 839.86 * **
15 015157 1305 EIDAM, ELIZABETH A.
1 416.00 926.96 * **
`:17 015158 1306 SNELL, PAMELA A. 1,449.50 967.25 * **
�s 015159 1702 DRESSLER, DAVID M. 1,109.60 587.09 * **
1 309.76 842.54 * **
79 0230- D`ONSMORE, CAROL M. 996.80 712.27 * **
`20 015161 2103 HURGETT, ELIZABETH H. 1 886.59 1,125.87 * **
l 015 162 2504 KIRCHMAN STEVE A•_____..__ -R..
zs 151632505 BARKE, CARL -E. 1,628.00 1,031.01 * **
23 015164 2506 LITTFIN, MARK G. 1,652.92 1,131.74 * **
24 015165 25 HARR SCOTT 2 207.96 1,271.30 * *?K
- -- -- - -- - - - - -- -- 1 - � 594.40 1,174.42 * *
� ss 1,
l lbb 2511 DEBNER, RANDY L. 1,464.80 023.80 # **
26� 015167 2512 MOHN, JERRITT W. 835.61
27 015168 2513 KOENIG s BETH A. 1,233.60 _..... _
...__.__ _.____. _ 1,578.40 1 , 086.99
F sa 015169 2514 TORELL, STEVEN B. 1,200.00 701.27 * **
29 015170 2517 REID, ROBERT W. 583.04 434.95 * **
r 601 LOSBY , SHEILA G . __ _._..___._._.___ .- - - - - -- -- - - - - - -
-_ _ __.- -_ 507.60 346.48 * **
603 NOLDEN, KERRI 1,399.20 943.19 * **
�604 ZYDOWSKY, ROBERT A. 507.60 383.65 ?k?k*
260_ HAYE 1,025.28
GREGORY C . -
_
- 485.78 * **
_______._._.___._- -___ -_
3102 MEUWISSEN, KIM T. 2,300.26 1,670.99 3s 3103 FOLCH, CHARLES D. 1,464.00 884.32 * **
C 26 015177 3104 BEMENT, WILLIAM R•__ - - -- - - - -- -- - - - - -- -- - - -._
682.08 456.89
3�I X15178 3�OETECKL�IG, JEAN M. 1,323.19 903.00 �K*
~ 39 015179 3106 REMER, DANIEL R. 1,048.53
39 015180 3107 HEMPEL DAVID C. **
' 1, 834 . bl _ ►- ___� _..._- .
---- - - - -_. _._ _._._._..... _ ._ 1 - 280.00 896.58 * *�F
ao �1 3109 DESOTELLE, DIANE M.
1,285.60 901.73 * *�!
",41 015182 3203 OIEN, STEVEN 1,810.40 1,239.14 * *1
' as 015183 3205 WEGLER,, MICHAE - - -- -- - -- ---
-
43 tr20ETE5, GR�- 1,758.40 1,176.01 * *�I
�aa 015185 3207 THEIS, JAMES M. 1,800.80 970.14
1,414.40 967.39 * *�
01518 32 08 SAUTER, STEPHEN M.
s .60
_ -_.___ ----- ..__.._.- _._.____ ---_._ ._____- _..._---- 658.84 * *�
s 1 lE7 3 209 ROT I NA p - R09E F2T S . 1 , 249 * *>
V a ,a7 015188 3701 BROSE, HAROLD 1 ,090.57 * *�
as 015189 3702 GOETZE, DUANE E. 1 , 52 _ 1 , _ _... 44
' - -- -- _ -- - 1 , 460.80 -- 1 , 023.
49 3 5rE CHA
GEE� R E5 J . 905.33
A so 015191 3801 GREGORY, DALE J. 1,771.20
1,984.32 1,254.22-**,
* *;
51 015192 38 SCH D EAN F. -
926.76
_i X322.40
52 015193 3805 EILER, CHARLES A. 1,128.00 812.50 **
X 53 015194 3813 MC KINLEY, KEITH L. 1,917.61 1, 139.01_ **
54 015195 4202 HOFFMAN, TODD
__._4 __- _..42 ._.__.
ERALD 1, 436 - 760.03 * *:
ss 4°503- 1OE5EF'iEF�, G .
' 1,288.00 -_ 740.11.. * *;
` 55 015197 4505 LEMME, DAWN E.
i
AL
FEBRUARY 17, --- ._.. -.
nEC� ESTER rage
2
Check
Emp
- -
-
a
Number Nbr
EmQloyee Nam
Gross
Check
a
- - - -- — •-- -- .-
- -- -------------- - - - - -- __... -.
4507 JOHNSON, JOSHUA J - - - - --
015198 -
Pay _ _ -°
- _- '---- - -----
Amount
-- _._
___
Di C
De f
{ 6
` 7
015199 4508_ NELS MARY B.
i -0 4601 �-
01520 STONE, CHRISTINE K �--
321.00
-_, 245.00
247.28
'-
'
8
9
015201
015202
4611
CALLOWAY- �MANLOVE, JOY E.
30.00 �_ .__.__-
___•___.- _213.24
27.70
10
015203
4613
5203
LAPADAT, WI J. ._.______.__.
CHURCHILL, VICTORIA
30.25
___.. 40 50
27.93
tz
015204
015205
5204
5205
E.
AANENSON p KATHRYN R.
1,320.00
_ — 37.40
919.54
* **
73
t a
6
0152006
0152075209
52
GENEROUS ROBERT E.
JLA AFF' '� -- --
SHgRM I N M .. -_ �_ ___ _- ._`-_....
KIMSAL,
2,071.57
1, 4 71.46
1,345.34
1, 440.16
1 ? 026.12
#
ts;
015208
JILL A.
..
815.38
* *#
16
015209
5211
5301
RASK JOHN `P.
STUTELBERG, JONATHAN - S - ""
375.00
_._:..__ 1,052 00
305.99
1 7
t8
015210
015211
5302
7201
SITTER, KATHRYN N.
HOUCHER,
_----
216.00
729.51
- -_..- ___.._______._.__.....
172.36
* *'
19
- - R GERALD
s l A — - -- -
264.00.
1,827-20
225.81
20
21
015213
415214
7203
7206
. -
ZIERMANN, CURTIS
CHIHOS,
- - --
1.,692.40
19513.60
1,193.27
- --
1,036.09
` 2
015215
7207
CHAR G.
JOHNSON "" -
JERRY M. __ -- �._..�__..
1,405.32
910.24
24
015216
01521
7
7208
7209
KRAMER, ERIC J.
SABINSKE, DEAN
1 ,197.00 '
831. .81 _
1
'
2s
J
* * ** Grand Totals * ** - - - -- — _. _- - -
:147.00
1,534.50
831.81
* **
26
-. --
..
27
2&
-- -- - --- _
- - - - -
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'
: 2
-- - ._ _ .
92 ,763.42
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CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 13, 1995
Mayor Chmiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilman Berquist, Councilwoman Dockendorf,
Councilman Mason and Councilman Senn
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knutson, Todd Gerhardt, Charles Folch, Kate Aanenson, Bob
Generous, Scott Harr, Todd Hoffman, John Rask, and Steve Kuchman
APPROVAL 'OF AGENDA: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the
agenda as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING FEBRUARY 19-25 AS COMMUNITY VALUES WEEK AND
PROCLAMATION DESIGNATING MARCH 5 -12 AS VOLUNTEERS OF AMERICA WEEK
Mayor Chmiel: The next item are public announcements that we have. One is a proclamation which is
designating February 19 -25 as Community Values Week, and I'd like to read this proclamation. This is
something that has been going on for the past fifth, if not the sixth year right now. There's a lot of effort
extended by a lot of people within the community who feel strongly about values within our city. Within the
school system, and so I will read this proclamation. As it reads, Whereas, it takes a whole village to educate a
child, (African proverb). The whole community has the responsibility to work in concert with the home to
provide consistent messages about how we are to treat each other; and Whereas, the entire community
participated in a process to identify a common ground of basic goodness. The District 112 communities process
involved three community forums and a committee that reviewed and summarized the input from the
community. The values were then adopted by the City Councils, School Boards, and County Commissioners;
and Whereas, the entire community must be involved. This includes school, business, clergy, law enforcement,
social services, city government and service organizations. The involvements begins with identifying the values
and continues by community members modeling and promoting the values; and Whereas, the city of Chanhassen
has adopted and promotes the eight Community Values of Citizenship, Environmentalism, Generosity, Human
Worth and Dignity, Integrity, Learning, Respect for Others and Responsibility. Whereas, the Values Committee
has organized the Fourth Annual Community Values Award Program. Now Therefore, Be It Resolved, that the
City of Chanhassen hereby proclaims the Week of February 19 -25, 1995 to be Community Values Week in
Chanhassen. As we continue to face the challenges and opportunity of our society, I call on citizens of
Chanhassen to promote and model these eight values. Chanhassen's commitment and dedication to building a
bright future for all members, but especially the youth of this community, remain top priorities. It will be
passed and adopted on this date by the City Council. The second is a proclamation also designating March 5th
through the 12th as Volunteers of America Week. And this reads, Whereas the volunteers of America, a
Christian human service organization, is celebrating it's 99th year of service to the people of Minnesota and the
nation, it is therefore certainly appropriate for us, the City of Chanhassen, to join in the observance of this
milestone with the commemoration of March 5 -12, 1995 as Volunteers of America Week; and Whereas, the
volunteers of America is making a valuable contribution by providing these services to adults and the elderly, 6
homes for mentally disabled, mentally ill, chemically dependent and/or elderly adults; congregate dining for
seniors at 45 sites in Anoka and Hennepin Counties, transitional housing for women and their families in Aitkin,
Chisago, Isanti, Kanabec, Mille Lacs, and Pine Counties, home delivered meals for person 60 years of age and
over, a semi - independent living services, and supported living services, 3 housing complexes for families, the
handicapped, and the elderly, and 4 long term health care facilities; and Whereas, the Volunteers of America
City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
provides these services for children and youth, a children's daycare, programs serving autistic, autistic like
and/or developmentally disabled youth, children's shelters, in home services, 52 foster treatment homes and
correction group homes, a residential treatment center for emotionally handicapped boys, a specialized
behavioral program for boys with severe problems, short term after care for youth with special needs, and
Whereas, the Volunteers of America provides 2 correctional services, a pre - release and work release correctional
program serving men and a jail, workhouse and work release correctional program serving women; and
Whereas, the Volunteers of America, through it's dedicated staff and volunteers and the many people who help
support their work through financial contributions make a significant impact on the lives of people in
Chanhassen; and Whereas, the Volunteers of America is commemorating its founding in 1896 and urges others
to join them in bridging the gap between human needs and the resources of the public and private sector. Can I
have a motion for each of -those proclamations? I will take item number 1 for Community Values Week.
Councilman Mason: So moved.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Councilman Mason: Could I make a quick comment?
Mayor Chmiel: Yes.
Councilman Mason: You know, I think the term values is quite honestly over used and I think it can be terribly
ladened with whatever way you happen to believe. You know you talk to people about values but as I read
through that proclamation and I see those 8 values, I quite honestly am very impressed with the work that the
committee did. Coming up with those 8 values. I find it hard to believe that anyone would dispute those but, I
think it's well done.
Mayor Chmiel: Very good.
Resolution #95 -19: Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Benlulst seconded to approve the Proclamation
Designating February 19 -25, 1995 as Community Values Week All voted in favor and the motion canted.
Mayor Chmiel: Now I'd also like a motion for the proclamation for Volunteers of America Week.
Resolution #95 -20: Councilman Ben luist moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the Proclamation
Designating Match 5 -12, 1995 as Volunteers of America Week Ali voted in favor and the motion canted.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Dockendomf seconded to approve the
following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City" Managers recommendations:
C. Approve Gambling Permit, Chanhassen Chamber of Commerce.
d. Amendment to Chapter 20 of the City Code Concerning Grading and Erosion Control, Final Reading.
e. Extension Request of Preliminary Plat for Subdivision 86031, Great Plains Golf Estates, Don Halla.
f. Approval of Bills.
2
City Council Meetin g - February 13, 1995
g. City Council Minutes dated January 23, 1995
' Planning Commission Minutes dated January 18, 1995
i. Amendments to City Code:
' 1) Chapter 14 Concerning Animals in Parks
2) Chapter 1 Concerning Rules of Construction and Definitions
3) Sales of Intoxicating Liquor
' All voted in favor and the motion carried.
J. APPROVE CHANGE ORDER NO 2 TO UPPER BLUFF CREEK PHASE IIA 91 -17B. WORK TO BE
ADNIINISTRATED THROUGH PROJECT 92 -12.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Is this anyway, the approval of this change order going to affect what could be
placed on that property, since we haven't approved any preliminary plat for that piece at all?
Charles Folch: No. The alignment for the sewer is basically a lower area below the property and in terms of...
' use of the property for development, we shouldn't have any problems.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: So it will have no impact on what will eventually go there? I mean if we
completely throw out the plat that they're proposing, it would still work.
Charles Folch: That's correct. We're leaving all the developable area alone.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay. I would move approval of this item then.
Councilman Mason: Second.
' Resolution #95 -22: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve Change Order
No. 2 to Upper Bluff Creek Phase IIA 91 -17B; Work to be Administered through Project 92 -12. All voted in
' favor and the motion carried.
A. APPROVE CHANGE ORDER NO. 2 FOR TH 101 NORTH LEG, PROJECT 88 -22B.
' Mayor Chmiel: Mark, are your's going to take any length of time?
Councilman Senn: Let's see here. (a) was primarily just a question. I don't understand. These change orders
total over $1.7 million and when we were going through the bond issue the other night, we were only allocating
$1.2 million so I was wondering where the other half a million was coming from.
Don Ashworth: It had previously been bonded. We did a partial bonding for that project before.
' Councilman Senn: Okay. Well then what's the total cost of the project? Why isn't that.
I Don Ashworth: I guess I'd defer to Charles.
City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Charles Folch: What you're seeing here listed as $1.685 some odd dollars is a new revised, with the approval of
this change order, is the revised project. Construction contract amount. In terms of the administrative, legal,
engineering costs associated with the project which probably brings the total of the project cost to $2 million.
Councilman Senn: Okay. So what's reflected here in the summary is not the total project cost?
Charles Folch: No. That's just the construction contract.
Councilman Senn: Okay. And so the real total project cost is $2 million?
Charles Folch: Probably in that ballpark. I don't have the exact total at this point in time. Once the contracts
are completed, then we'll know.
Don Ashworth: My recollection was $2.2. Because when you're doing the bonding I had to get those sheets
from Charles. My recollection may be wrong but I believe it was $2.2.
Councilman Senn: Okay. And if $1.2 is coming from the new bond issue we're talking about, then where's the
other million coming from?
Don Ashworth: Bonds sold in 1994.
Councilman Senn: Previously?
Don Ashworth: Correct.
Councilman Berquist: I've got a question on that as well. What was the original budget for that project?
Charles Folch: The original budget I think we had was about $1.8. Something like that I would guess.
Don Ashworth: That was really a difficult project because you were, we had approvals through the railroad.
They ended up selling. We ended up with literally negotiating a new payment as associated with that. MnDot
changed the design on the intersection, if I remember correctly, as it dealt with the requirements for that
intersection. They ran into problems with the cross arm design and had to modify that. So really in the project
the Council was brought in on this but a decision was made to carry the taper further north.
Charles Folch: That's correct.
Don Ashworth: So there were things that you changed through the course of the project but at each juncture the
Council is the one who approved that change. That's my recollection.
Councilman Senn: Maybe we need to do a better job of tying these together at the time but I just, $1.2 million
was my memory of what it was and then I remembered change orders of about $400,000.00 which took us to
$1.6 but maybe there's things we were missing in the middle there but I was having a hard time getting the
numbers to come out.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any other questions on that? Do you want to move that one Mark?
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Councilman Senn: Sure. But I'd like to talk more about it later in terms of how we handle that in the future.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Second.
Resolution #95 -21: Councilman Senn moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to approve Change Order
No. 2 to the Tnmk Highway 101 North Leg Improvement Project No. 88 -22B in the amount of $99,315.93. All
voted in favor, except Councilman Berquist who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1.
Mayor Chmiel: One no?
Councilman Berquist: One no. I just think we should wait on the action, but that's alright.
Don Ashworth: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Chmiel: Yes.
Don Ashworth: My recollection is that we did do a chronology type of a memorandum from BRW that outlined
all of the changes as we were going through that project. Do you recall that?
Charles Folch: There was a synopsis.
Don Ashworth: I think if we submitted that to the City Council, it may provide additional light on this subject.
Councilman Senn: (b) I'm certain is probably going to be a relatively lengthy conversation.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. We'll hold (b) and (h) until, as I indicated, after item number 12. That would be (b)
and (h). Okay.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
PUBLIC HEARING: ACCEPT SUPPLEMENT TO FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR GALPIN BOULEVARD
RECONSTRUCTION FROM TH 5 SOUTH TO TIMBERWOOD DRIVE AND CONSTRUCTION OF
MCGLYNN DRIVE FROM GALPIN BOULEVARD TO 1600 FEET EAST: APPROVE PLANS AND
SPECIFICATIONS: AUTHORIZE ADVERTISING FOR BIDS FOR PHASE I: PROJECT 93 -26A.
Charles Folch: Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. Tonight we have the project engineer, Mr.
James Unruh from Barton Aschman here to provide the presentation on the supplement report to the feasibility
study.
James Unruh: Thanks Charles. Last year, about a year ago we came before the Council with the feasibility
' study for McGlynn Drive and Galpin Boulevard. This is the graphic that we had in the feasibility study at that
time. It's a little bit difficult to read here but you have it in the supplement to the feasibility study. What the
project entailed at that time was a widening of Trunk Highway 5, installation of the signal at Trunk Highway 5
' and Galpin Boulevard intersection, reconstruction of Galpin Boulevard from Timberwood Drive up to Trunk
Highway 5, and then construction of a new road, McGlynn Drive all the way from Timberwood Drive,
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Timberwood Road over to, almost over to Audubon Road. And at that time we had anticipated that
construction would begin on those projects in 1994, and then some additional construction would take place...
As I noted in the update, or supplement to the feasibility study, there were several things that came up during
the course of 1994 that led us to a change in the scope and timing of the project. And this large graphic here,
the parts that are colored out basically entail what's involved in Project 93 -26A. That's the set of plans that
Charles has in his office and that is before you tonight for approval for authorization for advertising for bids.
Some of the things that changed, and I'll go through this very, very quickly. At the time that we did the
feasibility study, the development pressures from the Chanhassen Corporate Center and the Heritage
development were such that construction was certain to proceed on that in 1994. As things turn out,
construction did not proceed on those developments in 1994. ...a very short segment of McGlynn Road to be
constructed for access to the school site, and that's basically the driving force and the timing of all of these
projects. As the school was doing the grading work for the site, they were also doing the grading work for
McGlynn Drive. What they discovered was some poorer soils than had been anticipated and so what they did
was change the design of McGlynn Drive so that all of those subgrade soil corrections and basically everything
is taken care of with McGlynn Drive and the construction of the school site, except for the pavement and the
curb and gutter, which will be done this year under this project here. And maybe while we talk just a bit about
McGlynn Drive, the design change that we had last year, I suppose about July or August, we came before the
Council and asked for permission to take out some trees north of the Timberwood Estates property. And at that
time the Council approved that action contingent upon our coming back and showing you what we were
proposing to put back in there and that's what I tonight. This graphic shows what McGlynn Drive looks
like. This cross sectional view is looking towards the east. We have a trail, buffered by trees and then this is
the area where we took the trees out along the McGlynn Drive property. There was mostly, not too many, well
actually there weren't any oak trees but there were some elms and some ash and we're putting back in numerous
varieties and staff has looked at the varieties we're proposing to put back in are okay. But that gives you an
idea of what McGlynn Drive looks like. We also had proposed, in order to save these trees, a retaining wall
along the south side of McGlynn Drive. We had estimated the cost of $150,000.00 for that retaining wall.
When we did the redesign and then the soil corrections as part of the school site grading, we could eliminate
that retaining wall so that did save us a substantial cost on the project. Also by doing the subgrade correction
work on McGlynn Drive last year, that allowed for settlements to occur over the winter and should be for a
fairly straight forward paving project this spring. We also put sanitary sewer and watermain in McGlynn Drive
last fall as well. Any comments or questions on McGlynn Drive before I take this down?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: How many trees were removed and of what diameter and how many are being
replaced and of what diameter?
James Unruh: When I went out there and counted the sizeable trees of probably 6 to 8 inch caliper, I only
counted about 10 of those and we're putting in back about 30 trees and we're showing 2 1/2 inch caliper trees.
The average diameter of trees that we're putting in to start with. So we're putting in quite a few more than were
there. There was a lot of...but real thin scrub kind of growth was there. So we're putting in probably double or
triple the number that were there. But obviously they're much smaller size.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Give them 10 to 15 years they'll approximate the same.
James Unruh: Right. And that's intended to show you about what it's going to look like. Taking a section
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay, thanks.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
James Unruh: So I don't know if there's any other comments about Galpin Boulevard. But maybe, about
McGlynn Drive. Maybe I can talk about that because to physically make the connection of McGlynn Drive to
Galpin Boulevard, I'm sure many of you know that there's a really steep crest curve right around in here on
Galpin Boulevard. That's about a 25 mph design speed and the County required, and certainly for safety
purposes, we went from a 45 mph design speed and that meant cutting down that hill by about 10 feet, and I
have a graphic that shows that as well. Here we can see pretty much what we're proposing on Galpin
Boulevard. This is looking towards the north. These sections are taken at some of the residences on the east
side of Galpin. I'm sorry, on the west side. And here is the three residences. Here is McGlynn Drive and here
is Galpin and these three sections were taken in those areas. And we can see, here's an existing roadway and
the roadway is being lowered by about, between 6 to 10 feet in some locations. And now just to get a sight
distance over that hill. Now we did go out and show these graphics to the three residents here and show them
exactly what we were proposing and they were all very supportive of the project. The City Attorney and I have
met since last week. And they're all very supportive of the project. We are, also you can see there's some
substantial relandscaping in their yards as you might say compensation again just for the temporary easements
that are required on the property. But that brings me back to the point with Galpin Boulevard being lowered
quite a bit, you really couldn't make that connection with McGlynn Drive anyway until the work on Galpin
Boulevard was completed. The County has approved the closure of Galpin Boulevard for construction. There
are three conditions and one is that it couldn't be closed over the winter. And two, the duration of that closure
had to be kept to a minimum. What that led us to is proposing to do this construction along with McGlynn
Drive at the same time under the same construction contract this spring. And I think that will be the most
efficient and cost effective way to do that construction. In addition, the County last year had proposed
extending the widening of Timberwood Drive to the south all the way down to Lyman Boulevard as part of the
construction season that's coming up. The County had perceived during that design in- house, and just actually
last month, asked Barton - Aschman if they would do the design for it. And we very clearly would not start on
any design project further south of this project until we're totally done with the design elements of the project
we're working on now. One other element that we might want to talk about is the widening of Trunk Highway
5, which is shown in pink on this drawing. And it's basically widening it, widening Trunk Highway 5 to the
south. Adding about a lane so that we can have full turning movements at the intersection. That's such a
dangerous intersection. So that we could have right and left turns at the intersection of Highway 5 and a traffic
signal. So as things fell into place, we decided to go with one project. One contractor. One set of design plans
for McGlynn Drive. Just along the south side of the school site. Galpin Boulevard and we do have to do a
little bit of widening on the north side also. But to do all the Galpin Boulevard work from Timberwood up to
Trunk Highway 5 and a little bit on the north side and then the Trunk Highway 5 widening in one project. In
addition, if you close down Galpin Boulevard, it does make it a lot easier to do the widening on Highway 5.
You don't have to provide turning movements from Highway 5 onto Galpin Boulevard. So that's just a very
brief synopsis of where we are at, and just see if there's any more questions. I have a couple of other things to
bring up after that.
Councilman Berquist: I have a question. There's an item later on in the agenda concerning the Change Order
' No. 4 on the school. Now if I'm hearing you correctly, the movement of that road to an area where the soils
were better, saves the construction of $150,000.00 retaining wall.
' James Unruh: Well we had included in the initial cost estimate $150,000.00 for a retaining wall. That was
mostly to save the trees, that we ended up taking out.
' Councilman Berquist: Okay. But that $150,000.00 saved, of that $150, that's the $19,000.00 that was Change
Order 4? No? Bad soils? Different area with bad soils? Okay.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
James Unruh: Some of that $150,000.00 obviously goes back into the landscaping costs. Some of it went back
into the subgrade correction. I'm not sure that that has been totally determined yet how much additional that
soil correction costs.
Councilman Berquist: How many yards are getting hauled out?
James Unruh: That I don't know, how many yards were taken out. The contractor for the school site did it and
I did the redesign for the road basically out there. I really haven't seen a figure of how much material was taken
out. But I'm sure it's much less than a $150,000.00 retaining wall.
Councilman Berquist: I'm sure. Just a lot of bad soil.
Mayor Chmiel: There's a lot within the community.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: It's basically a wetland there.
Councilman Berquist: Well I'm just struck by the, maybe we'll get into it later on.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: We're lowering Galpin 10 feet in that area. Primarily for safety reasons? I mean
it does go up quite a bit and the visibility. Would we maintain a 45 mph speed limit? Is that what I heard you
say?
James Unruh: On that curve, or that crest vertical curve was designed for 45 mph. The rest of the road we're
showing on the plans as having a 40 mph design so these will probably be designed as 35 mph. But when you
go up over that crest... school, it just made a lot of sense to be a little bit overly conservative on the design for
that crest vertical curve. I was surprised at how well the residents here were in support of lowering the road
that much.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well I mean, you know we completely massed graded and decimated every rolling
aspect to the school property. It just seems like we're continuing on that phase. I do have concerns about that
but that is a dangerous area. You know I drive it every day so. Can you give me an estimate of the time line
between when we start construction, how long that segment will be closed and when we can finally get a signal
at that intersection?
James Unruh: Well we had specified the time frame that it's closed. I'm not sure at this point just how long
that will be. Let me give you the wording that I proposed to put in the special provisions for the schedule here.
And this, as Charles and I have discussed, probably takes some action by the Council. This would go under the
liquidated damages clause in the contract and keep in mind that Chanhassen has a standard $200.00 per day
liquidated damages for any project that extends out past whatever date is specified. But this is the language that
I proposed putting in the project's special provisions. All project roadways shall be opened to the design traffic
capacity and the signal at the Trunk Highway 5 /Galpin Boulevard intersection shall be operational by August
15, 1995. Liquidated damages will be assessed to the contractor at a rate of $1,000.00 per day for each
weekday after August 15, 1995 if the specified conditions are not met. We think that's a reasonable time frame
but we do see the need to put some teeth into a condition like that, and I will be working with some contractors
just to see if we should specify that this segment is closed for x number of weeks or if we should specify that
work on McGlynn Drive is done during a certain period. Or if we should just say that it all has to be done by
August 15th and let the contractor decide. I guess that's something I wanted to bounce off of the Council
City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
tonight. MnDot typically, for the size of project we're talking about here, $1,500,000.00, typically will charge
$1,250.00 per day that the project goes over the ... period of time. Now sometimes, often times it's hard to, if it
goes to a court of law, hard to justify that actual damages have occurred to the owner, in this case the city, but I
think in this case with the school property opening and the starting of the school year, we could definitely
prove... damages have occurred.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: And when would it start approximately?
James Unruh: Probably about May 15th.
Councilman Mason: It would be closed that whole time then? 15th of May?
James Unruh: Well we can specify that it not be closed. I want to get together with some contractors and find
out just what is reasonable. We can put an unreasonable time frame in there but we'll pay for it in the cost of
the project. And I guess that does bring up another point. We proposed that the contractor be allowed to close
the lane, one lane of Highway 5 because the State asked that we mill and overlay the existing eastbound lane of
Highway 5 and at present to have in the plan that that work has to be done between 3:00 and, I'm sorry. 9:00
a.m. and 3:00 p.m. or at night time hours, which would cause the potential, we'd have to revise the Chanhassen
ordinance that says you can't do construction outside of the 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. timeframe. Now that has not
been verified by MnDot that we should go to the night time to do the work on Highway 5. So there's a lot of
different things that could be done here and I think we want to be reasonable and not push the contractor into
some exorbinate cost either.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: So potentially it could be closed for 4 months?
James Unruh: Unless we specify something different.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well I mean I balance the inconvenience of that with the fact that it's probably
safer that way for anyone traveling north on Galpin.
James Unruh: That does make for a much more efficient road construction too if you can close off the road.
Another thing that we did in the fall was install all of the utilities that needed to be installed... utility relocation,
Minnegasco, U.S. West, all those folks came in and did the underground work so all that work was done when
Galpin was open to traffic so all of those being said and done, I think we could ... very efficient method of
constructing the roadway.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: My next question is more subjective and I'm not sure how you even want to
handle it but right now we have a lot of heavy truck traffic going south on Galpin to the Chaska, the whole
industrial park area back there. With the flattening of Galpin and the widening, I mean are we just encouraging
that more? I don't know who wants to answer that. It's more hypothetical than anything else. But how can, in
general terms, how can we deter that?
Charles Folch: That's a difficult question.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I know it is.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Charles Folch: It is a county road. It's built to handle that type of traffic. Certainly you're taking out some of
the dangerous sight lines and things like that. Making the road much safer and more conducive for vehicles to
use. I don't know that in general though that these improvements will have any impact, either to encourage or
discourage the type of truck traffic you see going down there now.
James Unruh: One thing that Carver County asked us to address is natural, potential for ... down to Lyman
Boulevard and I suspect they're going to have to do some ... but if you widen the whole thing and make it a more
palatable drive you might say ... then that's a possibility... The one thing that I'm not sure if it eventually
will... pressure on MnDot to ... timely manner or not but we may have to ask for some assistance in a timely
review for MnDot. I submitted this plan set on January 20th to MnDot and purposely did not put quantities in
there so we could get comments back from ... and I called them back about 10 days later and it had just been
sitting on his desk... because it didn't have the quantities in there. And typically we do submit plans sets without
quantities so we don't have to—but I'll be submitting our plan sets with quantities... promised a 2 week turn
around. So I hope to have the... Sorry for the lengthy presentation but I know that this is a critical project for
the city of Chanhassen and we're doing...
Councilman Mason: Is there going to be a paved shoulder on Galpin then?
James Unruh: Actually it's got a curb for Galpin Boulevard.
Councilman Mason: Okay, so there won't be shoulder capability at all then?
James Unruh: It's going to be widened so that you could potentially have four lanes. What the County has said
is they want to use the outside lane of each side for shoulders or turn lanes. Now we did the intersection with
McGlynn. There we actually have left turn lanes and right turn lanes. We'll actually have a five lane
intersection right at McGlynn and then that lane tapers out so that we do only have two thru lanes when we get
down to Timberwood Drive.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Is there a turn lane at Timberwood?
James Unruh: Yes there is. At this point.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: A left turn lane I'm talking about if they're going south. A left turn lane onto
Timberwood.
James Unruh: We could put a left turn lane in there.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Using the shoulder.
James Unruh: Yes. Right now we don't show that because it tapers down ... but that would be one of the things
we would be looking at. Getting an extension to the south.
Councilman Berquist: What's your guess for the bids?
James Unruh: I'm looking at about a million and a half dollars. Not I've not completed the final engineer's
construction cost estimate.
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' City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
t
Councilman Berquist: That includes the prorated portion of all five of these items? All the items 2 through 5
' plus approving a portion of number 1 on this thing?
James Unruh: I think it's two pages later.
' Councilman Senn: Page 8.
James Unruh: Keep in mind we're constructing a much shorter portion of McGlynn Drive, and that results in
' some savings. We took out the $150,000.00 retaining wall and one other thing I should mention is that in our
original feasibility study we had proposed a pedestrian underpass from McGlynn Drive at Bluff Creek. And we
had included a cost of $300,000.00 for that crossing. We ended up applying for Federal ISTEA funds and were
' granted a $240,000.00 grant for that pedestrian arch culvert for that underpass. And so we end up with
$240,000.00 savings there also.
Councilman Senn: Okay, well on your funding here you've got the city paying half a million for McGlynn
' Drive and you have County State Aid of $800,000.00 and MnDot for $200.
James Unruh: That's correct.
' Councilman Senn: Okay. Where's the other half a million, that's not identified here, where's that paid from?
' James Unruh: Let's see, if you add those up it comes up to $1.5 million.
Councilman Senn: Well but you also have a footnote down here saying, project costs are anticipated to be 30%
more due to the fact that you have nothing up there for engineering, administrative, all the consulting time so
' that makes $2 million in my mind. Where's the other half a million coming from?
James Unruh: Right. We had ... and again going back to page 4 on the feasibility study. Or on the update. We
' counted for those costs in the original feasibility study and now we think those costs have come down quite a
bit. The McGlynn Drive, the actual construction could be funded with State Aid funds if the city chooses to do
that. It is on the State Aid system. And I don't believe a decision has been reached on that. As far as the
funding for the other elements, I guess I'm not totally certain the source of those funds. I don't know if Charles
or Don want to address that.
Don Ashworth: Well I know that the tax increment plan did include costs associated for the frontage road, and
' I don't know what you're showing as assessments back against the school.
James Unruh: That's maybe the answer to your question. Is that we did show assessments on the original
' feasibility study. The School District, and the City, because they own part of the school site, and it was
assessed to land owners that abutted and benefitted from McGlynn Drive. So actually all of those costs,
construction costs were assessed back at the time when the ... the assessments were quite high and we've been
able to reduce those costs somewhat significantly since then. We have not gone back and done the re-
assessments on the plan. And I don't know if you have a copy...
Councilman Senn: Yeah, I mean your footnote 1 says that part of that $500,000.00 is going to be covered
' through assessments. Okay. But again, I'm just trying to, I mean your project cost here, if I'm understanding
what you put here, isn't really a million and a half. It's two million.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
James Unruh: That's correct. You have to add in legal and engineering and administrative costs. But what I'm
saying is that the assessments that we set up ... were based on the full project which was.
Councilman Senn: The $2.8 million?
James Unruh: Right. The $2.8 million. That's what the assessments were based on. And the total assessments
were given to the property owners along McGlynn Drive, which included the School District and the city.
Councilman Senn: And that's already been assessed then?
James Unruh: I don't believe it's been assessed yet. It was proposed as part of the public hearing for this
project a year ago. It has not already been assessed.
Councilman Senn: So we'll be adjusting all those assessments rolls then, or what?
Charles Folch: Yeah. The original project, which the original feasibility study scope included building the
road, McGlynn Drive all the way out to Audubon Road basically. Going along that stretch we included
probably 5 more large parcels which will probably be assessable. But we've backed off the project size ... cut the
cost in half. We haven't tallied to date what the revised assessment rolls would be but the methodology would
be the same if it was used the first time around and I would guess that there will be a little bit of a reduction
due to some of the cost savings that James has indicated but the second half of this project, if and when that is
ordered in the future, which would extend the road out to Audubon Road. At that time then he would be
bringing in again these other properties which abut above that road which are the Chanhassen Corporate Center,
a piece of the Heritage Development property, the Shamrock piece. At that time those properties will be
coming on line with anchors for that portion of the project. But the long and the short of it is, it cuts the
project in half in terms of dollar wise. In terms of assessments, it's probably somewhat reduced from what we
proposed originally. The property is associated with the biggest one.
James Unruh: The bottom line, to answer his question, is probably quite a bit more funding has been allocated
through assessments than will actually be utilized... design process.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. That's fine. Thank you. If you have any additional questions, we'll bring it back to
Council. As I mentioned before, this is a public hearing. Is there anyone wishing to address this specific
project at this time? Come up. Please state your name and your address and your concern. Is there anyone
wanting to come forward? Seeing none, I'd like a motion to close the public hearing.
Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Dockendoif seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor
and the motion carved. The public hearing was closed.
Mayor Chmiel: Are there any additional questions that you may have in regard to the project? Steve.
Councilman Berquist: No. I'm in favor of closing it and getting on with the business.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Colleen.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Are we looking at '96 for the completion of the easterly portion of McGlynn?
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
1
Charles Folch: At this point in time it's not programmed. I would anticipate probably the later part of the
i summer, early fall this year we will come back to you with a presentation of projects that are on line given the
development for next year. Give some priority rating system to determine which projects would go and which
ones won't. You know based on our funding ability for next year.
i Councilwoman Dockendorf: And Kate, would this preclude the development of Heritage, or whatever it's being
called these days?
i Kate Aanenson: Not Creekside but the next phase. Creekside would still have access to Timberwood.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: That must be Stone Creek.
i Kate Aanenson: Stone Creek, excuse me.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Alright, thanks. No questions.
i Mayor Chmiel: Michael.
i Councilman Mason: No. Let's keep going.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Mark.
i Councilman Senn: No.
Mayor Chmiel: Alright. Is there a motion?
i Councilman Mason: I move we accept supplement report to feasibility study for Galpin Boulevard
reconstruction from Trunk Highway 5 south to Timberwood Drive, etc, etc. Authorize bids. Project No. 93-
i 26A.
Councilman Berquist: I'll second.
Resolution #95 -23: Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the supplemental
report to the feasibility study dated February 8, 1995 for the Galpin Boulevard reconstruction from Trunk
Highway 5 south to Timberwood Drive, the installation of a temporary traffic signal at the intersection of Trunk
i Highway 5 and Galpin Boulevard, and the construction of McGlynn Drive from Galpin Boulevard to 1600 feet
east (Phase 1); approve said plans and specifications for Phase I and authorize advertisement for bids, Project
No. 93 -26A. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
i AWARD OF BIDS: 1995 BOND SALE• $3,885,000-00 GENERAL OBLIGATION TAX INCREMENT
BONDS SERIES 1995A AND $1,510,000-00 GENERAL OBLIGATION IMPROVEMENT BONDS. SERIES
i
199513,
Don Ashworth: Since we last met on this, a lot of things have occurred. As we had mentioned the last time,
there was a bill before the legislature that basically would have precluded our ability to at least sell the tax
i increment bond this evening. The author of that bill did agree to amend his legislation, or at least the effective
date of that which gave us the ability to go ahead with the contacts of bond buyers, dealers. That decision came
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
through I think it was Wednesday or Thursday was kind of the drop dead date so we barely squeaked through
that because I think we got that letter faxed to us Wednesday afternoon. The next significant issue was really
going back to Moody's and the rating system there and again that simply recognizes that on a national basis,
Moody's has been very reluctant in light of things like Orange County and Piper, to provide a rating and they
really have been going through cities scrutinizing every little factor. And I was very happy that we maintained
our rating and with that I'll introduce Dave MacGillivrary of Springsted. I think he also has some very good
news.
Dave MacGillivrary: Good evening. We are passing out the results of the bond sale on the yellow sheets. We
would like your consideration of two resolutions. Resolution awarding the sale of $3,885,000.00 General
Obligation Tax Increment bonds, Series 1995A and the same title with $1,510,000.00 General Improvement
Bonds, Series 1995B. Tax increment bonds on 7 individual projects and improvements on two improvement, or
special assessment projects. We are pleased to have two bond sales tonight... We took bids, competitive bids in
our office at 11:30 this morning. You have the results of those here with the first, the tax increment bonds.
This is a cover sheet. The City received ten bids on this issue. The bids are laid out with the best bid or
lowest interest first. Norwest Investment Services giving a rate of 5.4146 %. Then they go in increasing order
of cost. I'll just go briefly through the biddings. The second issue, which was the improvement issue, on the...
the $1,510,000.00. The City received 8 bids on that issue. The lowest and best bid was from Piper Jaffray at a
rate of 5.6131 %. You'll note on the tax increment issue, that over on the right hand side there's a AMBAC,
AMBAC insured, Triple A Moody's. On all of our bond issues we have provided including this option... Bond
insurance. If for any reason the city is unable to make payments, the insurance policy... marketing option and
the underwriters pay that premium themselves and then incorporate the cost of that in. So that's already been
included... so there is a premium. The underwriting syndicate, in this case Norwest, opted for that marketing
option. Included that in their ... bid price and in their ... so that's after reflection of all those costs. So we do this
with every bond issue we sell and sometimes people bid it in their bond issues and sometimes they don't.
You'll note on the second sheet, the improvement issue, the Moody's rating is your underlying BAA rating. In
both cases these interest rates are significantly under our estimates of a couple of weeks ago. The market's been
moving in a favorable direction which... We'd also like to note that there are 10 bids on the tax increment issue.
In going through our records back to the early 1980's, all of our records we've never received this number of
bids so there was a lot of interest... It's fairly evenly distributed with five out of Chicago and five out of the
Twin Cities. As Don indicated, the city went through a credit rating exercise by Moody's. Looking at all the
factors developed in the city. They noted 4 items relative to reaffirming your BAA rating. Those are first,
investment situation and the fact that the city management has provided Moody's with a cash flow analysis over
the next 3 years ... and they're satisfied with the liquidity position of the city. They note that the city will be
giving Moody's some on an ongoing basis, similar to an update. Second, the debt burden that the city has
reflects a high growth ... and that is offset by your ... tax base. Third, the city budget situation and the ... position of
the general fund. It's 30 %. They monitor that very closely and they basically look at each of you here... but
they understand from the city manager that this would be at least maintained. And fourth ... home values. So we
think this is a large amount of interest. Very aggressive bids and we would recommend award to Norwest in
the case of the tax increment issue and Piper Jaffray in the case of the improvement issue and if I can take any
questions.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. As I mentioned previously, this is a public hearing. Is there anyone wishing to
address this specific issue at this time? Is there a motion to close?
Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor
and the motion canned. The public hearing was closed.
14
' City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Mayor Chmiel: Does Council have any questions in regard to this as to what Dave has already explained?
' Steve.
Councilman Berquist: I do not. My questions have been answered.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Colleen.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: How did we manage our rating, our Moody's rating? Do we typically get that for
' our TIF district?
Dave MacGillivrary: I'm sorry.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Our rating. Is that pretty typical for our TIF district? Is it just the.
Dave MacGillvrary: The city has, each issue has it's own credit rating and if you look at these, they're general
' obligation issues which means the primary revenue source is tax increment in the one case and improvement,
special assessments in the second case. If they're not adequate and the city is pledging... property taxes in the
amount of any investors... so they're looking at the capacity of the city to levy those taxes. So each issue has the
' general obligation rating goes through this rating process. And when we did this last, I believe in September of
last year, the rating was BAA, which is an investment type rating and reaffirmed that rating.
' Councilwoman Dockendorf: Right. I was just surprised at the A AA.
Dave MacGillivrary: That's more a reflection of the insurance situation. All insured issues are rated AAA.
' Councilwoman Dockendorf: Oh, okay. No further.
Councilman Mason: Just one little quick one. All my other questions have been. Why do you think there was
' so much interest?
Dave MacGillivrary: Usually in the first quarter of the year there's less bonds on the market. Less supply so
they're looking, a lot of people are looking to ... and that's some of our reason why we split this issue off last
' September...
Councilman Mason: I'm done.
Councilman Senn: How many of the bonds that usually hit the market are totally insured like this?
Dave MacGillivrary: Totally insured. Of general obligation offerings. As a percent in Minnesota I would say,
on insured Minnesota and I'd have to look at the statistics but I would say it's 20% to 25 %. I'd have to look
that up.
' Councilman Senn: Are generally insured?
Dave MacGillivrary: Are insured general obligation issues.
Councilman Senn: So that'd probably have something to do with the popularity also then?
1 15
City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Dave MacGillivrary: Not everybody that bids, I should note that on the tax increment issue, the one with
insurance, not all the syndicates bid with insurance. So it was selected, each one could make their own choice
whether or not they wanted to. So some of them bid with insurance, some did not and we have the individual
underwriting syndicates, whether they want to have insurance or not.
Councilman Senn: That's it for questions but I have discussion if we're going back to discussion, or if you
intend...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Yeah, I guess it's good to see the kinds of ratings that we're getting with the interest rate
for each and it's nice and low and I think it's fairly good bidding. Thank you. Any discussion?
Councilman Senn: I have some discussion on the $3,885,000.00 general obligation tax increment bond. As we
discussed in the work session, basically there's two items in here. $800,000.00 for a pedestrian bridge over
Highway 5 and $500,000.00 for acquiring the property in front of City Hall. Neither action which this Council
has taken yet so I guess if we're going to vote with those in here, I'd like those identifications removed off of
those and those funds put into a contingency until decisions are made on those projects.
Mayor Chmiel: If I remember correctly, all those specific things that you just discussed were things that
Council's already passed on.
Councilman Senn: No, not true. The Council's never passed on the $800,000.00 for the ped bridge, nor
$500,000.00 for the...
Mayor Chmiel: Todd, what was that we had within that discussion that we had at our work session?
Todd Gerhardt: I presented a tax increment plan that highlighted what the Council to bond for construction of a
pedestrian bridge.
Mayor Chmiel: And that was affirmative.
Todd Gerhardt: 4 to 1 vote.
Mayor Chmiel: 4 to 1 vote. Alright. Okay. That's my understanding.
Councilman Senn: So you're saying this Council has voted 4 to 1 to proceed with construction of a ped bridge
at $800,000.00?
Todd Gerhardt: They included it and approved the tax increment plans to do that construction...
Councilman Senn: So did they, or did they not approve it? You're telling me they looked at it in a plan.
Okay. Did they approve an $800,000.00 pedestrian bridge project, is my question.
Todd Gerhardt: All I can tell you is the tax increment you authorized construction of a pedestrian bridge. The
tax increment plan calls for the construction of an $800,000.00 pedestrian bridge.
Mayor Chmiel: I think what you're saying is that total dollars has not really been indicated but I think the
acceptance was that that bridge be constructed with x number of dollars, even though some additional dollars
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I City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
had to come up because of other things that had to, or one way to accommodate that bridge in order to have it
constructed. Changes by MnDot as well as acquiring the properties and so on.
Councilman Senn: Well, I mean we went over that the other night and I mean originally when this project
came into Council, the City contribution to this project was a little over $100,000.00. And now an $800,000.00
' project is considerably higher than that. That's alright. I guess you guys can go ahead and do what you want
but I have no intention of voting for that.
' Councilwoman Dockendorf: Is that in addition to the ISTEA funds?
Todd Gerhardt: $500,000.00 of city expenditure and $300,000.00 of ISTEA.
' Councilman Berquist: Is it practical to call those two items out as contingent?
Don Ashworth: I do not think that you could do that but you could pass a separate motion that would direct
staff not to spend any dollars for either of those two projects. First of all, I'd like the Council to reconsider.
Not reconsider. There may be confusion in regards to the pedestrian bridge. If you'd like us to research that
further, we could. I do not think that there's any confusion as it deals with the acquisition of the property in
front. You authorized the condemnation. We've been proceeding with that. The price is well within, or what
we think we've negotiated is well within whatever. It's in the plan. You know, kind of on and on and on. If
you would like clarification in regards to the pedestrian bridge than I would suggest a motion stating that none
of the monies associated with the pedestrian bridge may be spent until a new authorization is received from the
' City Council. We'll then research the thing. Bring everything back. You tell us, go ahead with the bridge or
don't.
Councilman Berquist: Well insofar as this is my third meeting, I'm not privy to all the stuff that went on before
as far as authorizing that pedestrian bridge but the last time I sat in an HRA meeting, there was some real
discussion as to the cost. And then in the work session to find out that the Council supposedly had authorized
' the money was a real surprise to me. I would be in favor of another motion.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. There's a motion on the floor. Is there any other discussion?
' Councilman Senn: Who made the motion?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Who made the motion, I'm sorry.
' Mayor Chmiel: Well, what Don had said.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Oh. I would be happy to make the motion to approve the bidding for the TIF
' district up for Norwest and Piper for the general obligation with a secondary motion to authorize staff not to
spend any money on the pedestrian bridge until it's brought back before Council.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay. And those are both resolutions. Two separate resolutions is required? Okay. With that
motion, is there a second?
I Councilman Berquist: I'll second it.
1 17
City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Resolution #95 -24A: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to award the bid for
the $3,885,000.00 General Obligation Tax Increment Bonds, Series 1995A to Norwest Investment Services at an
interest rate of 5.4146% contingent on staff not spending any money on the pedestrian bridge over Highway 5
until the issue is brought back before Council. All voted in favor, except Councilman Senn who opposed, and
the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1.
Resolution #95 -24B: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to award the bid for
the $1,510,000.00 General Obligation haprovement Bonds, Series 1995B to Piper Jaffray at an interest rate of
5.6131% All voted in favor, except Councilman Senn who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to
1.
AWARD OF BIDS: 1995 VEHICLE AND EOUIPMENT PURCHASES.
Mayor Chmiel opened the public hearing.
Charles Folch: Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. Again... found it very favorable to implement
the volume discount ... bid contracts received. The item before you tonight is a partial list of Public Works and
Public Safety vehicles to purchase. Specifically the list includes five 4 x 4 pick -ups, two of which will be
outfitted with plows. One all wheel passenger van, and 14 two way radios which will be used to outfit all the
public works and public safety vehicles that we purchase in '95. Scott Harr's also here tonight, if you have any
questions regarding the public safety vehicles. Briefly their list includes one crime prevention van, a fire
department staff vehicle, two building inspection vehicles and an animal control vehicle. The total bids for the
equipment listed is $219,831.00. There will be some additional minor expenditures needed to outfit these
vehicles with strobe lights, tool boxes, etc ... will be substantially less than the $249,000.00 amount budgeted. So
therefore it's recommended the City Council award the bids for the partial list of 1995 public works vehicles and
equipment listed as the five 4 x 4 pick -ups, two plows, one all -wheel drive passenger van, and 14 two way
radios and the list of Public Safety vehicles for a sum total of $219,831.00.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. As I mentioned before, this is a public hearing. Is there anyone wishing to address
this specific issue at this time? Seeing none.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor
and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed.
Mayor Chmiel: Any questions? Steve.
Councilman Berquist: I've got two questions. Further down in the Council packet there's a lot of
correspondence. There's radios called out as part of the purchase plan for some of these vehicles. All these
vehicles. And later on in this correspondence it says region wide public safety communication system, and
maybe I'm talking about the same thing and I don't know it. The radios that you're planning on buying, are they
compatible with this region wide?
Scott Harr: That's a good question. The plans are to convert the public safety radio system to an 800
megahertz system. Very pricey. A lot of planning is going into it and it's estimated that it be occurring... down
the road. One of the dilemmas is the current equipment is not compatible with the 800 system. But we really
have no choice because there aren't radios available now that can be converted that we know of and so we have
to maintain what we have right now.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Councilman Berquist: So the $8,000.00 is going to be money down the tubes in 2 years? 2 or 3 years I think
that letter said.
Scott Harr: Well, we're not 100% sure of the timing on that. I think that's our best guesstimate. We can also
continue using city radios as back up or just for the city. We don't have to necessarily eliminate it but this is
one of the downfalls of the 800 system. Is that it does require new equipment.
Councilman Berquist: And 14 radios, I'm splitting hairs I know but the 14 radios that you're planning to
purchase are in addition to existing radios? They will fit into different vehicles?
Scott Harr: To replace ... put into new vehicles that don't have any radios or replace radios... You bring up a very
legitimate concern. One of the, it's one of the strong reluctant points that some of us had about this conversion.
It's going to really hurt smaller cities like our's. Especially the smaller cities, smaller than us.
Don Ashworth: If I could jump in. I firmly believe, because I watched all of the debate as the 911 system and
what not. I mean the funding is not anywhere close for the 800 system. It will, my firm belief is that it will be
past the year 2000 and that the $800.00 that you're looking at for radios today probably will be kind of like a
computer system. If you get at least 5, 6, 7 years out of them, you probably have max'd their life. I think it's
going to be a tougher decision as we get into '97 -98. But we might have a clearer direction.
Councilman Berquist: Well you know, according to the time table for implementation, which is apparently not
true or somewhat optimistic, system in place March -April '97. So that's bogus? Or you think it's not realistic.
Don Ashworth: Well this is back from the committee and committees tend to be a little more optimistic,
whereas legislature can be a little more pragmatic and say, we're not going to really...
Councilman Berquist: Okay. Well then the fact of the matter of is then we need to spend the 8 grand for the
radios and what happens, happens. Okay. The other item that I just wanted to ask about, just from experience
point of view. I appreciate, where'd Scott go? I appreciate your choosing to try a 2 wheel drive. I'm
concerned. I've owned in my business, I've owned two Chevrolet Astro vans and I have found them to be
expensive to operate and trouble prone. I hope nobody here is a Chevrolet dealer but that's just personal
experience on my part and we're not terribly hard on vehicles. So they've probably changed. This has been 5
years ago. 4 years ago.
Scott Harr: We've had positive responses from the agencies that we're talked to, and on the 2 wheel drive for
the inspection vehicle, that's created some controversy within the department.
Councilman Berquist: Who has to drive it?
Scott Harr: And we have a 4 wheel drive budgeted but with some of the cuts that we're anticipating from the
State and frankly as we looked at how supportive the Council's been, Steve Kirchman and I discussed could we
try something different here to cut our portion of the budget a bit. And it's been kind of a 50/50 split within the
department of whether the 2 wheel drive will work or not. Steve and I thought we'd give it a shot.
Councilman Berquist: Okay. That's all I have. The only questions I had.
Mayor Chmiel: Colleen.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I don't recall what our capital expenditures were last year. It just seems like a lot
all at once. Do we have a long term replacement schedule and does this fit into it or is it completely new?
Scott Harr: No, it fits into the...
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Is this an off year or is this typical?
Scott Harr: It's unusual in that we've got people coming on board and some of the vehicles we're replacing are
just ready to go. So it is kind of an off year.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: But this was planned?
Don Ashworth: If I may. You haven't really seen the big hit and that is the two fire trucks that will be
proposed or will be brought back to you. And of course those are all pre - assembled. Or I don't mean pre -
assembled. I mean they have to be assembled so the actual purchase of those won't occur for 12 to 18 months.
Scott Harr: We've also put together a plan that will save the city upwards of I think it's $30,000.00.
Don Ashworth: It was much higher than that. The plan that the Council looked at before had 3 trucks in there
and they literally cut one truck out. So $250,000.00 per truck, that's a pretty big cut.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Plus the fact that we had donations provided as well to the city for the acquiesce of
some of these, or one of these.
Scott Harr made a comment that could not be heard on the tape.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Mike.
Councilman Mason: I don't have any questions.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Mark.
Councilman Senn: In terms of these bids, if I understand what you put together here, there's a $30,000.00
savings then overall?
Scott Harr: Correct.
Councilman Senn: Okay. But then as I also understand it, you're proposing that we now use some of those
funds to purchase the vehicle lighting and tool boxes and toppers and all that kind of stuff. How much is that
going to eat up?
Scott Harr: No. What we're proposing ... $30,000.00 savings from what we...
Councilman Senn: After you add the equipment too?
Scott Harr: Yes. The equipment was budgeted separately. Correct?
20
City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
L
r
C
Charles Folch: That may have been the way public safety had budgeted for the equipment. There will be some
accessory items that will come out of this budget here for public works vehicles... correctly and that was figured
into the original budgeting for this equipment. Fortunately the manufacturer, some of these items and
accessories... manufacturer that we get the vehicle from does not provide some of the accessory items so we have
to go out and buy those separately. So they're... items to purchase the vehicle.
Councilman Senn: So how much of the $30,000.00 do we have left?
Charles Folch: I would guess for the 5 pick -up trucks that are 4 x 4's and a utility van that may be
accessorized, probably another $5,000.00 worth.
Scott Harr: Which Public Safety has all budgeted.
Councilman Senn: So we should still have a $25,000.00 savings then for rebudgeting?
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any other questions? Thank you. If not, is there a motion?
Councilman Berquist: I move, make a motion to recommend staff and shop foreman to accept the bids and
purchase the vehicles as detailed.
Councilman Senn: Second.
Resolution #95 -25: Councilman Berquist moved, Councilman Senn seconded to award the bids for the partial
list of 1995 Public Works vehicles and equipment listed as five 4 x 4 pickup trucks, two plows, one all -wheel
drive passenger van and 14 two way radios and the list of Public Safety vehicles for a sum total of $219,831.00.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
CHANGE ORDER NOS. 1 -4 NEW CHANHASSEN ELEMENTARY SCHOOURECREATION CENTER
Todd Gerhardt: At our last City Council meeting staff was asked to give a summary of change orders number 2
through 4 and I've attached a letter from John Gockel, Construction Manager on the new elementary school
outlining that the work related would be to these change orders. Mr. Gockel is present here this evening to go
into detail if Council wishes. I'd also like to make a correction to the statement I made earlier to Councilmember
Berquist. There were some change orders relating to the frontage road in 2 and 4. The mass grading for the
frontage road is included in the mass grading for the school site, and that cost will be ... Any other questions?
I Mayor Chmiel: Any specific questions?
' Councilman Senn: Todd my question when this last came up related to how, I didn't see it addressed here more
or less. We have $100,000.00 contingency. This is for four change orders and we're basically eating up, what
was it, of $30,000.00 or something?
' Councilwoman Dockendorf: $35,000.00.
Councilman Senn: Okay. What's the rest of the picture look like on the contingency?
21
City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Todd Gerhardt: It's difficult to say right now. There will be a few more change orders. There will be some
additional earth work. That mound of dirt that sat along Highway 5 was not included in this change order.
There will be some additional lighting on that. We did not include—that will end up being a change order.
There might be a few other ones that I'm not aware of. If John knows of any additional ones. Those are the
only two that come to my mind.
Councilman Berquist: So when the, so now the realignment of McGlynn Road, for lack of a better way of
terming it, saves us $150,000.00 in retaining wall expense. Takes some trees down. As part of that we've also
incurred a $19,000.00 plus a $5,000.00, so about $24,000.00 change order. The net result is a savings overall of
$125,000.00 and when you add up all the funds together, that's what it amounts to? Is that an accurate,
reasonably accurate statement?
Todd Gerhardt: To date.
Councilman Berquist: To date.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: And that's all Chanhassen city.
Councilman Berquist: No, it's spread but, I have a difficult time looking at the project from a segmented point
of view. I'd like to look at a building project as a project so I don't break it all up and I apologize for that. I
want to back up just a bit. Change Order number 2, item 4. It was for the sanitary sewer to be run through, it
was a step footing cost increase. For the sanitary sewer to be run through the educational rooms. I'm curious as
to where was it originally planned to go and why was it changed? Is John here?
Don Ashworth: Yeah, John is here. John, could we have you come to the mic?
Mayor Chmiel: If you'd just introduce yourself for the record.
John Gockel: My name is John Gockel. I'm the Construction Consultant for District 112 on their referendum
work. The question on item 4, the step footings. After the project was underway it became apparent that it was
wiser to step the footings down underneath the sewer lines running underneath the educational unit than it was
to reinforce those footings ... to the building across the top. I believe this was one of those things. It's a
judgment call and the engineer changed his mind after the project was bid.
Councilman Berquist: So it wasn't that it was running someplace else?
John Gockel: No.
Councilman Berquist: Okay. Can I continue? Change order number 2, item 5. You indicate in your letter that
the Fire Marshal required the relocation of the hydrants?
John Gockel: That is correct.
Councilman Berquist: I'm curious as to what, and in your letter you say the many piping changes. I'm curious
what changed? Was there more piping? Was there more excavation? Were the hydrants in?
22
City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
John Gockel: No, they were not in. These were changed during the planning review process the city conducted
and the locations were modified at the request of the city. The piping changes was a reduction in size of some
of the drain lines.
Councilman Berquist: Well that, the 16 inch to the 15 inch was yes, but I'm looking at that and trying to figure
out where 9 grand in fire hydrants come in and there was another fire hydrant that was added?
John Gockel: There was one that was added.
Councilman Berquist: Inadequate coverage? And by who's judgment?
John Gockel: It was the opinion of the Fire Marshal that another one was added, or one was required. We did
not, from a construction standpoint, challenge if you will his opinion.
Councilman Berquist: I'm just plain nosey and sometimes I do challenge people's opinions.
Mayor Chmiel: That's alright. If it's for the city buck, it's okay Steve.
Councilman Berquist: Well you know that's just kind of it. That represents 9% of the contingency fund. Okay.
John Gockel: I should add that the item 6 was also the Fire Marshal's suggestion.
Councilman Berquist: Well that was $74.00. Thank you for bringing that up. The $74.00 deduct. Change
Order number 2, item 7. $5,400.00. The way I look at this, this could be part of Change Order number 4. It's
really just paper plan survey. That sort of thing?
John Gockel: Item 7, the south frontage road is the one you're asking about?
Councilman Berquist: Change Order number 2, item 7. South frontage road. The cross section of future
McGlynn Drive had to be revised to accommodate. This goes back to the road construction.
John Gockel: Yes it does.
Councilman Berquist: Yeah. So I'm assuming in looking at that, where it was, that that's simply paper cost.
That's the survey. The plan changes. That kind of stuff.
John Gockel: No. There was soil involved in that. They revised a new road section to accommodate the one.
The contractor started excavating for McGlynn Drive. He ran into a lot more poor soil than was originally
anticipated. There were two sets of soil borings taken along that right -of -way. One for the school building, if
you will, and then the city had another set taken for the building of the road. Neither set revealed the full
extent of the poor soil along that right -of -way.
Councilman Berquist: Why not?
John Gockel: When you take soil borings, you know how close do you take them? I think we ended up taking
them about on 50 foot center. Center to center which is, if anything, is excessive for that type of the extent of
23
City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
that roadway. But even so we missed, those soil borings missed the direction of the slope of the poor soils.
The contractor ended up removing I believe in excess of 17 feet of compressible material.
Councilman Berquist: Well that answers the last item I had where you removed 31,000 cubic yards of material
from the southwest to northeast corners and I was going to ask for your professional opinion, was this an
oversight and you've already answered that.
John Gockel: No, it was not an oversight
Councilman Berquist: Okay. Thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Colleen.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: As a resident in the area I got a notification for a preliminary plat. This doesn't
have anything to do with the change order but I received a notice for a preliminary plat approval of the school.
It's half built. I don't get it.
Kate Aanenson: Originally we did a metes and bounds subdivision on that piece of property, which it qualifies
for. Based on the current zoning. Now that we're platting the road, we're just procedurally cleaning it up and
going ahead and platting it. So it is legally split with the School District owning approximately 20 acres and
the City owning the other 20.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: We could leave it the way it is. We just figured since we're putting the road in, it probably
makes more sense at this time to plat it.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: So it's just an administrative thing?
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: It's not like we're going to redesign the thing.
Kate Aanenson: No, no, no. It's just to clean it up.
Mayor Chmiel: Strictly metes and bounds as you've indicated.
Kate Aanenson: That's the way it is. That's how we split it right now so there's two different bodies, the
School District and the City.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Alright. That's the only thing I had.
Mayor Chmiel: Mike?
Councilman Mason: Nope.
Mayor Chmiel: Mark.
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City g Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Councilman Senn: Todd, I thought when we did the contract with the city that everything was split 76/24.
' Where's the 50/50 coming from on the road?
Todd Gerhardt: 50/50 did the mass grading. For anything that involved the mass grading of the site we split
' 50150. As to the physical structure of the building, it was the 74/26.
Don Ashworth: Which really makes sense. They own 20 acres, as Kate noted. That has been recorded in that
fashion. We own 20 acres. So anything that deals with really grading of the overall site is really a 50150 type
' of a share. The original agreement spelled that out.
Councilman Senn: So you're saying that the soil correction is part of mass grading then?
Don Ashworth: Yes.
i Councilman Senn: Okay,
Don Ashworth: Correct John? I think he's nodding his head yes.
Councilman Senn: Okay. And we should pay 50 I mean, I have trouble with that. I mean we gave the School
District the 20 acres of good ground. We kept the 20 acres of bad ground and now we're turning around and
charging ourselves part of the cost to fix the problem.
' Don Ashworth: I should have John back at the microphone. My original recollection is that really they wanted
to have the school back, it was originally designed to be on the other side. The soils over in there were so poor
that they just said hey, we cannot do it on this site. They moved over to the other side and then literally
incurred I'd say close to 10 -20% of the building actually was over pool soils in that location.
John Gockel: Yes it was.
' Don Ashworth: And all of that again was an advance. Okay, taking a step back. The grading costs were really
going, who was going to pay those to a large extent would be determined by who was in there first. Because
with the roadway, you had to go back so many feet just because of the change in the elevation. So we would
have ended up with huge additional easements to be able to taper that back. The other side of the coin is if the
school came in first, they literally would be doing a lot of work for us in terms of the street construction so we
just determined early on, let's just do this as one large contract. 40 acres and divide the cost 50150. Again that
' was in advance of knowing where you might have poor soils or where you may not have. And as we got into
road construction and there was additional costs, that went on a 50/50 basis. As it dealt with poor soils under
the school, that gets back to the 76/24 or 78/22, whatever.
John Gockel: 76/24.
Don Ashworth: Okay.
' Councilman Senn: But I understand that but during this process we agreed to move the school to a place where
they would have far less soil corrections than where it was originally programmed for. Now our road is going
in the area where those bad soils are.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
John Gockel: That's, excuse me, that's not correct.
Councilman Senn: Okay. Help me out.
John Gockel: McGlynn Road, it's general location now is where it always was going to be.
Councilman Senn: Okay, so we just moved the school.
John Gockel: We moved the school from the extreme east edge to more of the west part of the property but it
had nothing to do with the location of McGlynn Road.
Councilman Senn: So McGlynn Road's where it's always been.
John Gockel: Basically, that's correct. Along the southern edge of the property.
Councilman Senn: Okay. And where did it switch with the realignment? I thought it was realigned.
John Gockel: The realignment was relatively minor as it came into Galpin Boulevard. The concept was from
the south edge of the property. And it still is.
Councilman Senn: And so those soils were just missed in the initial test, like you said before then?
John Gockel: Well we ran into poor soils several places on the project and that was certainly one of them.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. John, I just have one question. On these change orders that we have, are these signed
normally by a professional engineer or an architect indicating to make those changes?
John Gockel: That request has been made and they will be. It's not been my experience that that is normal. In
the industry.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I guess I would like to see that done as well. The other question I had, on some of
these with the little asterisk as you have. 24 %. What is that 24% of that?
John Gockel: I believe that was added by city staff as part of the calculations to find out what portion belonged
to the city and what portion belonged to the District.
Mayor Chmiel: Alright, good. Is that right? Okay. That's the only ones I had. Thank you.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'd move approval of Change Orders 1 through 4.
Councilman Mason: Second.
Resolution il95 -26: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve Change Order
Numbers 1 through 4 in the amount of 535,135.86. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
APPROVAL OF FINAL CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS FOR ORGANIZED COLLECTION.
I Public Present:
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Name Address
Gary Lano
731 Victoria Drive, Chaska
Tom Moline
7700 -44th Avenue, Mpls.
Jayne Schifsky
Carver County Enviro. Services
Dean Johnson
Minnetonka
Tom Workman
Chanhassen
Vernelle Clayton
Chanhassen
Bob Generous: Mr. Mayor, Council members. We brought this item back so that we could get some direction
to complete contract negotiations for organized collections. As part of our review we're trying to establish a
pricing structure that would be uniform throughout the city. The contract would establish service levels for our
residential customers within the city. There are two issues that we really have. One is the pricing schedule.
We've received five responses for the, based on the contract from the haulers. In reviewing this we decided to
go with the second lowest overall bid. Or the second lowest bid based on all five responses. For yard waste
collection and also for recycling services. One item that we have yet to resolve is how the city wants to handle
yard waste collection. Currently we've recommended as part of this that we go with the per bag or per can cost.
However, as part of the pricing structure that was submitted, we looked at a 3 time a year, two week collection
that could be provided for. Or we looked at a special drop off type collection option and we need direction
from City Council how we should address that as we complete these negotiations. The second item is regarding
the disposal of the solid waste. As part of our review and in working with the County, we're looking at the
possibility of requiring through the contract to have residential waste processed at some facility prior to being
landfilled. Currently the County is providing a subsidy for waste that's processed. About $15.00 per ton
subsidy. At least 3 of the haulers specified that they submit subsidy, there is no difference in the cost between
allowing them to dispose of it anywhere and going to one of these processing facilities. As I said, we're
requesting that we give direction so that we can complete these negotiations. The city's consultant, Dean
Johnson is here to answer any questions that you might have or that you have for me.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. This is one of the, probably the hardest kinds of things really try to tackle as
far as I'm concerned but we're going to listen to some Council and then I'll offer my opinion at the last part of
it. Is there anyone wishing to address Council at this time in regard to this proposal for organized collection? I
know that we have had haulers here previously. We know their concerns but if you have some other concerns
other than those that you've already indicated, we'll be happy to listen to those. Or if you've got a solution to
some of the things that we have talked about, since we've talked, I'm even willing to listen to that. So I'd like
to open the floor for that. Anyone wishing to address that. Okay if not, we'll come back to Council.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'd like to hear Dean's 5 minute spiel on this concept.
I Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Dean
Dean Johnson: Mayor, members of the Council. It's been about 6 months since we've had a work session. We
talked briefly on that and I think Bob has hit all of the issues. If you would, attached to my memo is a
summary, 4 or 5 pages which is called the pricing options. And in it are the three pricing summaries that we
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
put together for you to consider. On this third page it's identified as number one, basic services. And not all of
these, as Bob indicated, are a given here. Basic services because at least one of these with the seasonal yard
waste collection is an option that you haven't had before and basically I'll just run through that quickly and
explain it. The very first item there, solid waste and recycling. That is what's going on right now. You require
that ... kind of a package deal by the haulers and what we've identified here in the first column is the lowest
priced structure that was submitted by one hauler. So throughout that column there's what I would typically call
the low bidders price. In the second column, in the middle, is the second lowest price for that particular
category by any one of the haulers. So it's not just the second low package submitted by a single hauler. It
represents the second lowest price throughout this list. And then the third column is the average price of all of
our haulers, throwing out the highest and lowest values. We did that in part because we indicated to the haulers
that we'd be submitting a range of prices to try to indicate how some of these prices would be met. So again
that first column is a set of prices that were all submitted by the same haulers. The second was the second low
bid. In any event, those are a reflection of, in the very first category, solid waste and recycling, are reflective of
what you're really receiving now as the "basic service ". And back in my memo ... you are seeing on the average
in Chan of about $13.13 per month for one can or 32 gallon weekly. $15.00 for two cans and $16.55 for 3
cans. When you compare those then with the previous sets of values that are shown on this sheet, the lowest
priced structure of $13.00, excuse me $9.00, we didn't want to upset $13.00 for... The second item that Bob
talked about, the seasonal yard waste collections. These are values that would be added to the monthly bill
every month throughout the year whether or not someone used the service. Presently the yard waste collection,
people are either hauling seasonally to your facility. The city is subsidizing that or paying haulers to pick it up
curbside. What we asked the haulers to submit prices for a curbside collection program. Twice in the spring, a
couple of months in April or May and then twice in the fall, and that's generally the last couple weeks of
October. And this has not been ... who would use the services. It would serve every household in the city,
whether you use the service or not, 10 to 12 months out of the year ... 17 cents a month extra or 30 cents a
month extra are prices that would be in addition to that every month by each household. I think the reason Bob
said there's a direct... policy decision by the Council, you may have some large lots full of trees that would love
to take use of a situation like that. Some newer developments with one or two 2 inch trees that don't shed many
leaves and they may be subsidizing that so you're seeing subsidies in the city one way or the other. You have
to make the decision which program you want. Another element that Bob mentioned, Carver County has been
attempting to, and this has been assisted by the State, in directing solid waste be disposed of at a facility other
than a landfill... They are to that effort ... and subsidizing... in the amount of $15.00 per ton for those that are
using the so called preferred facilities. We ... this item in the pricing structure, what the additional costs per
month to residents would there be if Chanhassen were to ask for and didn't get paid for pay for, this additional
cost to take waste to a preferred landfill. And as you can see in the first two columns, there was no additional
cost to residents based upon that kind of a structure. And the last column, we took the average of the prices
submitted by the haulers and there are charges ranging from 40 cents to 80 cents a month extra. Other elements
in here are basically optional service levels but it breaks down the cost to get in those three broad categories...
parts that might be provided. What solid waste overage costs would be, are putting these into three categories.
There's no longer proposed to be a traditional or an unlimited category. If someone has 3 cans at this time and
you go over, the price you see here per 30 gallon bag or extra can would be 75 cents in one instance or $1.50
in another. ...hoping to improve recycling activities within the city as well. Finally on that list are some bulk
item costs. We would like, as part of this structure, that all residents pay the same fee and this is an attempt to
do that. So we've itemized things that while you could have some haulers that contract with the 6th District...
included in that and... regardless of what districts people are having collections in from whatever hauler, the price
category is likely to be the same throughout the city. Item number 3 in this list had to do with any kind of
adjustments to the contract, which is proposed to be a 2 year contract and we asked two different questions. If
there were a need, in the minds of the haulers for any automatic annual adjustments to the contract. As you can
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
see in the low hauler category, or on the second... annual or automatic increases proposed with the contract. We
ask again that ... might trigger a change in the pricing structure and those range from 10% in change in disposal
costs to the next category which is a 5% change in those type of...Those can be tied into a contract. The last
item on there was alternative yard waste collection and this was a little bit different from the curbside collection,
and that was to have a drop off within the district that the haulers are operating within that district would attend.
This could be a couple of Saturdays or whatever was chosen. This was just itemized... cost could be if that
option was chosen as well. Basically, as Bob mentioned, we've come to the point now where it's really the
Council's decision to move forward on this. I would say ... about a year and a quarter ago when the Council
approved this... study. One of the objectives there in the mission... some of the impacts on the city's street and
there were some environmental issues. Plus to work of the existing haulers and that's been the objective from
the start. This contract still does that. If you accept one of these pricing categories, we will enter into 6
different contracts. One with each of the existing haulers. They would each be assigned a district. Annually
the city may adjust that district based on growth. It can be done...You can make a decision on which approach
you want the yard waste. To leave it the way it is or to get one of the options that we've identified here. We
need some direction. If it's determined that you would like to assist the County in directing waste ... and then
last takes some action on the... With that I'll answer any questions.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you.
Vernelle Clayton: Don?
Mayor Chmiel: Yes.
Vernelle Clayton: ...I didn't realize that I...
Mayor Chmiel: Would you just introduce yourself so we get it on tape.
Vernelle Clayton: I'm Vernelle Clayton. I live here in Chanhassen. I'm confused. And I think that a lot of
people are on this subject. I don't mean to take a whole lot of your time if in fact there's going to be another
public hearing. I don't particularly want to be the only one speaking tonight although I do have some messages
I'd like to convey. Are we going to, I'm concerned that it seems like you're being asked to make some decisions
on contracts and yet I don't remember that we actually held a public hearing on this. Is there going to be a
public hearing later on where the people of the city of Chanhassen are going to have a chance to talk about this?
If so, are they going to be ... paper. I don't think most people read the little mini notices. I do because we have
other things that ... but I know a lot of people that are concerned about this and I think if they knew what was
going on, they'd be here. So before I start talking about why I think we should stop this before we...I'd like to
know if there's going to be another meeting?
Mayor Chmiel: As we have right now, we have not basically planned that. We've had several meetings on this
and it has been published in the paper. But I think you're right. There's a lot of people out there who are
concerned about what might happen now. And I think probably, or hopefully, maybe Council's going to address
that. But I don't, as far as having another meeting, I'm never adverse to having a public meeting for people to
come in and express their concerns but I think that would probably be a one meeting night because I'm sure this
would probably be filled with people who would have those concerns.
Vernelle Clayton: Is it your intent on that night to make it ... direction to staff on the contract... informational
meeting after the fact?
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Mayor Chmiel: Well, let me put it this way. I'm not sure exactly where this is going this evening.
Vemelle Clayton: Well with that in mind Don, I think I'll go on to...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, why don't you.
Vernelle Clayton: When I'm finished you'll probably summarize what I have just said with, that I don't want the
city of Chanhassen to tell me...
Mayor Chmiel: Just a second. Dean, are you going to be able to respond to some of these questions?
Dean Johnson: I'll try, sure.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, good.
Vernelle Clayton: I don't want the City of Chanhassen to tell me who should pick up my trash, and I don't
want them to tell me when I should do it. But let me go on to say ... and that is, as I kept eluding to ... knew
much about the issue. When they learn of it, they do care and are mystified. They wonder, and their first
response is usually why. Why would the city of Chanhassen want to do this? And they do care. This is a
service that's provided by the haulers to us residents. It's not a service provided by the city. And I know, I
happen to have had the same hauler for 27 years. As was pointed out in an earlier meeting that I attended by...
there are some added benefits to us ... trash. We just like to leave that option open. Likewise, we'd like the
freedom to change if the situation warrants. As I mentioned last time, we found ourselves in that position at
Market Square. I understand that it's your initial intent here to exclude commercial areas. However, I'm still
concerned. Future well meaning Councils could easily add commercial areas... The impacts on area haulers
based on the limitations imposed by this proposal could well affect the number available to us to choose from at
that time. At Market Square, without Festival, the fees are just over $10,000.00 a year. For that amount of
money, it's important to have the option of.. At a candidates forum last year, one of the unsuccessful
candidates reasons for running were as she stated, for such a Republican area, we don't seem to be taking a very
Republican approach here in Chanhassen. And... taking the Republican approach but this does not do it ... one for
trash and one for recycling. That wouldn't change... That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. And some of
the garbage trucks usually have someone hanging on or whatever at the back and observing what's going on and
it's my observation that the delivery trucks and the UPS ... they only have one guy. Maybe we should have all of
them stop at the other edge of town... Road constraints. It will cost taxpayers millions of dollars if we don't do
anything about it ... but I'm skeptical. At best I think a second opinion would be in order. I may not have my
own ... During that time there's been no limitation on the number of haulers. I don't know if they made roads
better in 1957 than they did in the 70's. If they did, maybe the more appropriate response would be to build
better roads. That leads me to just another point. In my neighborhood of approximately 20 homes, even though
we ... to choose who we want, in fact there's only been about 4 different haulers. Currently there are only 2. In
situations where neighborhoods have 6 different haulers at a time, it seems they could exist but not likely... I
suggest the rate charge by haulers and their guarantee contracts would be less than we would pay under pure
competition... There will be some reorganization. Who pays for what but ... there will be a shift in the tax burden
away from the federal and state government to the local communities... So finally, don't put... in our face. There's
nothing broken that needs to be fixed. Cut our losses. The nickels and dimes we save today will come in
mighty handy when... Thank you.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Dean, can you maybe respond to some of those. I think one of the things that I
' think we want to indicate too, that in gathering the information that we're looking at this evening, first of all I
think we know where the haulers are as far as the districts are concerned. I think that we just don't know
exactly where that's going to go, and they may not be favorable for this or maybe they might, depending upon
what really all ties down. The second part of it is, gathering this information. I think that there probably
' should be some type of a hearing but by pulling all the information together that you're doing now, is the only
way to really know exactly what it is and what it's going to consist of. So maybe from that you can also.
' Dean Johnson: Maybe I can back up and give a little summary on the process ... and it began in May of 1993.
So we're approaching 3 years on this and we started with a public hearing which was followed then by 6
meetings with a citizen committee that reviewed the various aspects of what it was the city was concerned about
' in evaluating their existing system... collection versus this new option called organized collection. The result of
that was a document prepared by the committee, with the help of my firm, ultimately approved by the Council.
We had notice in the newspaper about all of those initial recycling committee meetings. We did have a few
people come but not too many. We had a number of Council liaison during that time, in particular
Councilmember Dockendorf attended most of those meetings, as did the Mayor. I think most of the Council at
the time attended at least 1 or 2 of those sessions. The nickel and diming, to use this woman's term, I don't
think should be taken lightly. It's not just a matter of what the individual pricing structure may be. This whole
' project started out of a concern about damage to streets in the city. And we heard change orders earlier about
poor soils in the city and generally with some over burdens of clay in your community, you have higher initial
street costs and you have higher maintenance and repair costs. And one of the things that we've determined in
the study is that we can't avoid taking away choice or ... so I can't answer that question when people say well, I
' don't want to be told what day of the week I have this or really, isn't there a way to offer a choice. That's a
down side of the recommendations that's in here. Organized collection is inherent to having a single hauler. It
creates districts, if you have more than one. And generally people are without that option to pick which day or
which hauler. So that's a given but you're comparing that to what we hopefully identify or in some reductions
in aesthetics within the community. Trash out on any given day of the week in every subdivision. Certainly
the reduction of vehicles themselves which reduces the risk to damage to streets, which again is the number one
issue that people cited. We do know that there's a fairly dramatic reduction in fuel consumption. It's not
noticeable in my mind but there is obviously a reduction in air pollution and there certainly is some efficiency
for the haulers in this system. Do they prefer an open system? You bet. They don't want to change that either.
We won't argue that fact either. I think it just comes down in comparing again some of the things that you're
' attempting to accomplish here and notwithstanding the issue or question to me of should we have another public
meeting. I don't know. After a year and a half, that's your decision. Not mine. I think there's been a lot of
opportunity for input and I think you could drag this out for another 2 years and probably get an ongoing
' change of opinion so that's a decision that you have to make. But when you compare hopefully the positive
elements of this, you're comparing them against the selection of the hauler or the day of the week. Perhaps
even free enterprise or competition as we know it. And that's one of the things that we've seen are pricing
structures that are dramatically lower than what your residents or most of your residents are experiencing now as
well so there are savings for the majority of the residents with this type of system. Hopefully the taxpayers are
going to see that in creating a system that's efficient and has less impact on the streets. So those are some of
the thoughts I have at this point. You know your community better than I and have to make decisions about
' more public input. That's not my function.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, good. Thanks. Council. As to basically what Bob is looking for some direction from
' Council. Let me just go through and some of the other things that he's mentioned as far as yard waste and so
on. They're all the considerations I think that we should take into view at this time and also I'll ask the same
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
question to find out whether or not Council would like to continue these kinds of discussions with our general
public and populous of the city. I know through the period of time when we first initiated that to concerns by
the people and the numbers of phone calls that I had received. Some of them told me where to put the garbage
but that's neither here nor there and I told them there wasn't any room there because my garbage can was full.
But I think those are some of the concerns that we have and I think we really have to address that and maybe
I'll start with you Steve.
Councilman Berquist: Thank you. Mr. Johnson, do you define, is trash pick up in your estimation a utility?
Dean Johnson: In the Statutory sense it doesn't have quite the same characteristics. You couldn't put these on
your taxes if you have a delinquent trash bill, as you could a water bill, so in essence it's not regarded that way.
Except I believe ... in the City of Minneapolis. They have a special...
Roger Knutson: In cities that of the first class.
Mayor Chmiel: We're a first class city but we're not in that terminology. Thank you.
Councilman Berquist: So no was the answer. I know this has been going on for quite some time. Has it? Has
it been determined that the haulers are unable or unwilling to address the city's issues? The city's concerns?
Dean Johnson: We looked at this as a two track approach. That haulers were requested and encouraged to
submit an alternative to our organized collection that addresses those issues. There have been some submittals
to the Council. They haven't been received favorably so we've kept moving forward with this approach to
attempt to negotiate a contract with all 6 of these haulers.
Councilman Berquist: So over the 2 years since this began, do you feel like there's been any significant
progress in reaching compromise between the private sector and the city in trying to, the city's trying to achieve
less road use. More aesthetics. Those sorts of things. Do you feel that there's been progress to that end?
Dean Johnson: It's difficult. It's not a, there's not a halfway point. It's one type of system or another basically
Councilman Berquist: But ideally, I mean looking at it from my point of view. We're talking about private
enterprise versus something less than private enterprise and I hate to contemplate the something less than private
enterprise so I would certainly hope that the first initiative would be to bring the ideas of what we're trying to
accomplish. Get that done through the private enterprise system. Ultimately perhaps and say we'll grow to the
point where we are a class one city and treat trash as a utility, but that's quite a ways down the road I would
guess. What was my original statement?
Dean Johnson: I don't know how to answer your question.
Councilman Berquist: Well, okay. I do have some real concerns. I'm not a real good at extemporaneous
speech so I always try to write comments out and I really don't know that this is the time for me to make these
comments so I'll pass on down.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Sure. As Dean has said, we've been working on this issue for, I just want to deal
with the public notification of it first of all. We've been working on it for coming on 2 years and the initial
meetings were well noticed. I believe Dean Trippler, we've had two Villager articles on it. It's been in our city
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
newsletter twice, at least. So I'm comfortable that notification has gone out as to what we were thinking of
' doing. I mean it was all very conceptual. It was this is what we're doing. Or what we're thinking of doing. I
have taken no phone calls on it, that I can recall. I have received a couple of letters. One from my hauler,
arguing against that but I firmly believe that is the vocal minority. I think we've done our, I think our reasons
for going in this direction are very good and well documented. If anyone would like to hear them, I'll reiterate
them again but Mr. Johnson touched on them in terms of road wear and aesthetics and some safety concerns.
We've seen a couple of neighborhoods go to organized collection themselves, just to deal with those issues.
And in the best of all possible worlds, I think it would be great if the neighborhoods could organize themselves
' but I don't see that happening. I don't see this as private enterprise going to public. You still have private
haulers doing the pick up. You still have private haulers doing the billing. You still have private enterprise
taking care of your customer service needs. What you have is an overlay of public saying this is where you'll
' operate and you know, where you want to put that on the continuum of public versus private is an individual
choice. I see it still leaning heavily towards the private. We are including the haulers who already serve the
city. Vernelle, I don't see it touching on commercial anywhere in the future. It just doesn't make sense. The
commercial haulers run on very strong streets. You know we don't have some of the same concerns that we
' have on the residential streets. I'm concerned that the Mayor's intimating that the rest of Council may not agree
with the direction that we've been going along in the last two years. That concerns me because if we had those
concerns two years ago, we shouldn't have gone this route that we have. Because we have spent some money
' on this study. I think in looking at the prices, they beat what I pay now. I think there are some great
economies of scale. Yes, there will be initial start -up costs for the haulers to figure out their new routes but in
the long term, they're saving a lot of costs and we're saving as consumers a lot of costs in garbage pick up.
That having said, I wanted to address the issues that you still wanted direction on Bob. Prices seem okay. The
yard collection, I have concern about since I dump all of my recycleables, or not recycleables but yard waste in
my back yard and compost it. But in looking at the prices, 34 cents a month. I don't know, can I deal with
$3.60 a year or $4.00 a year? Probably. If that would make it easier for all residents instead of hauling it down
' to a central location to put it on their curbside 4 or 5 times a year, I'm willing to look at that option. The
processing, if it's at no cost. I'm not certain that we should get into that direction though. I mean once they
have the garbage in their trucks, it's the County's jurisdiction as to where they process that. I really don't think
' the city should get into that. I guess that's all I have to say on the issue right now.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Michael.
Councilman Mason: We have not heard what the haulers' opinion is on this contract. On this proposal and I
believe at one point there was one hauler speaking for the group. I quite honestly would like to hear what they
have to say about this before I say anything more.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Mark.
Councilman Senn: I guess I'm in a, I think I'm in a little bit of a unique situation here because I live in one of
' the neighborhoods that organized. I think by the time we had 20 houses in the neighborhood, we were
organized. Heard very strongly from people in the neighborhood that they did object to all the trucks going
through the neighborhood. To the safety of their children and all kinds of issues like that. Most of the people I
' heard from, the street maintenance issue wasn't I'm going to say paramount. It was more safety. But I don't
think that needs to downplay the street maintenance issue. When we organized and did this as a neighborhood,
we had people in the neighborhood cut their rates in half by doing that. Because we had people basically all
over the spectrum in the neighborhood. I guess for my perspective on this issue, I've said all along I really wish
the haulers could come up with a better solution on their own that would satisfy these concerns and the concerns
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
being street maintenance and safety and costs, etc. It bothers me and disturbs me I guess that that hasn't
happened. The only people that I've heard from on this at all is the haulers, and quite honestly I've heard split
opinions even from the haulers on it. I look at the information, which has kind of gotten to a new level here,
and I guess in one sense I'm wondering if the process is flawed because I look at this and see my rates are
going to go up, not down. Which raises some questions in my mind. The system that we're looking at
organized collection, I don't really view as being a public system. I view it still as being a private system with
some, with what's called some public intervention because that's what it is. I'm not sure until I get a chance I
think to check out some of the numbers here a little bit more exactly how I'm going to come down on that but
from the standpoint of the spring and fall, I mean if we're going to do organized collection, I really feel strongly
that for 34 cents a month, we ought to be doing that. I think that would cut down a lot on some of the
extraneous garbage that kind of gets left a lot in different places in the city around the spring and fall time.
And I don't see that as an overdue burdensome cost. In fact, even if we didn't do organized collection, I'd like
to see something like that. Because the emphasis we've placed in this city on open spaces and trees and all of
that sort of thing, I think necessitates some special attention to that. So I'm not sure I'm happy I guess where
this has gotten so far with costs. I'm unhappy that there's been no alternatives proposed by the haulers that are
even remotely within the confines of meeting the issues we raised. Or satisfying, I should say, the issues we've
raised. And other than that I give you some strong direction on the issues...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thanks. Colleen, I wasn't intimating anything when I said what I said. Give a clarifier
on that. I think the basic real needs that we saw was how can we eliminate replacing streets within the city.
And replacing those streets over the period of time as we looked at it, roughly went around, was it about $10
million that we had looked at Charles?
Charles Folch: It's actually, the city's infrastructure right now, currently to replace the streets, it runs about a
million dollars a mile and we currently have just a hair under about...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, so we're talking much more dollars. That was one of the concerns. The other part of
the concerns too was, as Mark has indicated and I said that probably to the haulers after the first meeting, you
come back here and tell us what you think you can do to accommodate this. I don't think we'd have been as far
as we basically are with where we're at right now. The other part was the fact that I think some of the haulers
even eluded to the fact that they may even decide to go to the smaller packers to come into the neighborhoods.
In coming into those neighborhoods they then would have their larger trucks out on the collector streets which
would carry that additional weight. And have a specific location to unload the smaller packers running in and
out, but that didn't eliminate that completely. I think somewhere in the notes as I had read that, and I don't
know how true but it's a quote that we have in here that it takes approximately 1,600 and some cars to make the
same wear that one hauler has with his large packer truck. There's a lot of real concerns from my standpoint,
and hopefully all those people that called me, maybe they'd like to call Colleen since she didn't get any of those
phone calls. But, neither here nor there but I think these are some of the things that Michael has even
mentioned the fact that maybe the main hauler who represented the balance of the haulers in discussion, if you'd
like to come up at this particular time to address maybe some of the concerns that Mike might have. But let me
just back off a little bit too. The yard waste collection. Much of what I go through is the same thing that
Colleen says she does. Is goes back into composting. Plus the fact that 34 cents more per month would really
not be that much of a problem. That may involve some people who are on fixed incomes, even to come up
with those additional dollars, that it might be a little difficult for them. But, maybe at this time, if one of the
representatives who had addressed the Council that one time, would you like to come up here and maybe
indicate.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
I
u
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Tom Workman: Who would you like to talk?
Mayor Chmiel: Whoever.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Tom, you're never at a loss for words.
Tom Workman: I can make a couple of points. Probably answer some questions... I'm Tom Workman, a
resident of Chanhassen and I happen to be employed by one of the haulers in the city so I have a little bit of a
role. I've had a little bit of past experience in government in the city and government currently at the statewide
level. I don't know if you want to ask me some questions. I've kind of paid a lot of attention to this. It looks
like I will be named to the Legislative Commission on Waste Management which involves all sorts of things.
And to talk about that from the state level, there's a lot of things going on here and I think the Council should
be a little bit alarmed. I don't know if you've heard in your contract negotiations this word processing before
tonight. It's a very big issues that's brought several County Commissioners out, and I can explain that a little
bit. I think I've spoken to almost all of you or you've all spoken to me and I think I might have brought this
issue up. I believe to date you've paid the consultant about $30,000.00 for this study. And for the County
there's an awful lot at stake. They would like to process waste. Now this in itself is not a bad concept. What
is flawed is that the State has kind of designated what's a good place to process and a bad place. They don't
like to bury garbage but they like to burn it. And they like to compost it. Well, the Hennepin County burner
bonded their edifice at about $95.00 a ton of waste. A ton of garbage waste. You can landfill it for about
$40.00 a ton. Now if you were a hauler and you had customers who wanted low prices and good service, where
would you go? So there's a big perpensity to get this stuff down to a Hennepin County burner. Now where
they've now had to lower it to $60.00. Still high but they brought it down to $60.00 and then like all counties,
figuring out new ways to get this stuff into that burner and so they're taxing all sorts of other things to get that
accomplished. In fact I think the number is about $280 some odd million dollars that have been taxed statewide
by counties under this processing and taxing and trying to redirect and designate where garbage is going. And
to get back to the consultant, it was at Hennepin County applied for a grant. You guys paid for your study.
Hennepin County paid for a grant or Carver County applied for a grant with the Board of Government
Innovation and Cooperation people... and applied for a $50,000.00 grant so that they could do this very same
project in Chaska, Victoria, Waconia, and Laketown. Chanhassen's a leader in this county and what Chanhassen
kind of does, other cities like to do. So there's $50,000.00 that they did attempt to get. Those cities will not
possibly be able to afford their own study like we have generously done here in Chanhassen. And so this
program and this proposal will tend to go on to the rest of the county. That's why there's an awful lot at stake
and that's why I'm a little nervous about this word processing which has come up tonight and whether the city is
going to process. The reason they don't like ... these serious leaky landfills and certainly we're not sending
garbage into those landfills... liability insurance and stuff. Tipping fees at landfills are redirected to burners or
you're going to have to pick up telephone books whether you like it or not or bucking batteries or recycling or
whatever else. I get real nervous when anybody attempts to set a price. Unless there's some sort of collusion
the city feels is going on out there, I think the haulers are trying to be as competitive as they can be to keep the
costs down to maintain the customers and still provide great services. Haulers have said they will go to mini
packers when road postings are on March 15th to May 13th. Two day moratorium in the city. Pick up only on
3 days, not 5. I'm trying to remember everything that's going on. Something that while I was sitting on the
City Council, we decided to go to curbside recycling in the city of Chanhassen. We decided we had to go to
every week because people would lose their interest if they missed it one week and it wasn't supposed to be
another week. We don't need every week recycling in this city. If you go to every other week, and I would
propose that we could have a City Council the second and fourth week of every month. A truck has been
mandated by this city to follow a garbage truck, wouldn't have to pick up the one can, two jars, and the Sunday
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
paper that could wait for a month to be picked up. So I don't know that this process has been one that the
haulers have really been asked to participate. Come up with creative ideas about what can be done, because
there's a lot of things. All you have to do is open up the phone book and go down and figure out new ways to
do this. I don't think that it's been done. It's been, this process has been followed with the line that's on the
front page there that says, get in line with this process or we will give out the whole city and you will be out.
Those are the words in the second paragraph. That's been in every piece of documentation that's come from the
city. So a lot of issues going on, not the least of which is processing issue that if you look, the State has given
all 87 counties the right to sort of control where their garbage goes. It's a rather bulky system and every county
kind of has their own concept of what that is. Thanks heaven we in Carver County didn't go and build a burner
or other facility. Didn't have our own facility because now the counties that do are in great dire straits to get
waste into their facilities where the Supreme Court said, you're interfering with interstate commerce. You can't
do that. Was I going to answer some questions?
Councilman Berquist: I hope so. First question. Confiscatory, is that the word you used?
Tom Workman: The Governor uses that all the time. And he's my hero.
Councilman Mason: Well, I'm kind of sorry to hear that.
Tom Workman: It's just, it's a very sticky wicket and you guys know that and I'm confident that the haulers can
help you work this stuff out. You have 6 licenses now. I think it's in fact going to be 5 very shortly. The
numbers of haulers, the numbers of neighborhoods that are organizing on their own. My neighbors in my small
neighborhood over by the landing want me to get an Aagard cart out in front of their house. That's great. I'd
love to do it. I'll give them a great price but I don't need the government to tell me how to do that. Don, you
have one of the more strong and vocal neighborhood organizations, I think they could probably accomplish that
very easily. And we would be happy to do that for you. But to take that out is.
Councilman Berquist: So the haulers, I had Mr. Johnson if the haulers had been working to resolve some of the
issues that the city has been wanting to address. Road wear and tear. The aesthetic issues and he indicated that
over a 2 year period of time, I think there had not been a lot of progress made. Yes or no?
Dean Johnson: I think the Mayor earlier summed up what had been proposed by the haulers, as did Mr.
Workman and the Council has not accepted those. There have been a couple of written submissions by the
haulers to the Council. It has not been accepted to date. That's what I understand.
Councilman Berquist: So there have been formal proposals made by the hauler associations to address these
issues.
Tom Workman: Well, and you know in relationship to the road issue, it's sort of a tough one to nail down.
Two things. One, it's hard to prove if you took all the trucks off the roads, that the roads would last any longer.
That study does not exist. And second of all, there are two cities nearby, they're about as close together as you
can possibly get. Not Minneapolis and St. Paul but Norwood and Young America. Coincidentally, one of those
cities does have a city wide contract with one hauler and I would ask if anybody knows who has the better
roads. Which city? You really can't tell.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: How long has it been in place?
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' City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Tom Workman: 15, 13 years possibly. So the study doesn't exist obviously. It's very difficult for anybody to
' defend a vehicle which provides the public health and good for moving trash but which has to do it in a large
capacity and what it's hauling does not smell usually very good in 90 degrees. It's a very difficult thing to
defend so to say that road wear and tear doesn't exist would be a lie also.
' Councilman Berquist: So cooperation has really not been forthcoming? Yes? No? Is it too early to tell? Is 2
years not a reasonable time to expect some progress?
Tom Workman: No, I think the haulers want to cooperate. I think it's just been a process where under the
threat of you're going to be out of business completely if you don't come to the table with what we want.
' Councilman Mason: Where's that threat come from?
Tom Workman: It's on the front page of that memo.
' Councilman Berquist: No, what it says is, if a negotiated contract with existing haulers is not possible, then
staff will recommend that a contract for competitive bid be prepared and the city, if authorized, will prepare a
request for proposals. Is that the sentence you're referring to?
' Tom Workman: I think Roger needed to put that in for legal reasons...
Councilman Berquist: So and now the staff is recommending that the Council authorize them to finalize
' negotiations with existing haulers. So by that then negotiated contract with existing haulers is not possible. Or
addressing of the concerns of the populous has not been accomplished to the city staffs satisfaction.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Or Council.
Bob Generous: Or Council's.
' Councilman Mason: Well I think the haulers have been strangely quiet on this, to be honest with you.
Tom Workman: Well I don't think there's been a public meeting or even the haulers meeting for some time. I
think a lot of the haulers were under the impression that there was still a first and second reading and this is a
finalization of the negotiations. Otherwise I think this room would be noticeably more crowded.
' Councilman Mason: Well you know Tom, with your experience up here, I think you know as well as I do that
people don't complain until a law is changed and then they bring down the roof. You know Vernelle you made
that comment about reading the notices. You know short of a 72 point headline, you know I think everybody,
t and I include myself in that, has got to take responsibility for what's going on in this city and I do get a little
tired, and I'm talking dog gone it, I will get on my soapbox for a minute here. I'm talking as a parent, a teacher
and as a Councilman. You know I get a little tired being told that people don't have to be responsible. I mean
if people aren't reading the public notices, I can't help that. I mean this has been publicized. Now I'm not
saying that people don't know what's going on, because I don't think they do. But on the one hand, I think
everybody in this city has to take responsibility for what's going on in this city, you know. Maybe we do need
another public hearing on this. Maybe we do but on the one hand I'm hearing, saying dog gone it, you know
' city stay out of this but then I'm also hearing, you know you really should be publicizing this more. So those
are two different issues. But still I'm going well, when are we, and I'm also a citizen of this community. When
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
does our responsibility start? I guess, and maybe that's a whole different issue but I still, Tom I've heard from
you but I haven't heard, I mean I paged through this contract and I think, well. It looks okay to me but I
haven't had a citizen call me. I haven't had a hauler call me and say well this part's good. Dog gone it, this is
really going to hurt me. I'm indifferent to this. I don't know. I don't know how much input haulers have had
on this.
Willard Johnson: Mike, I want to make a statement as a public citizen. I'm satisfied with my hauler but I don't
get no notice because I don't get the Villager because there's nothing in it as far as I'm concerned. I'm not
going to pay for a paper that I can't read. I'm interested in the Council meetings and half the time I can go pick
up a paper in Excelsior and I can get more out of that than I do out of the Villager so ... like it or not, that's the
way I feel.
Councilman Mason: Willard, that's not my bailiwick.
Willard Johnson: But Colleen says it was in here twice. I've only noticed one meeting where...
Councilwoman Dockendorf: But the city newsletter has dealt with it at least twice and that goes to every
resident.
Willard Johnson: I don't ... city. And I work for the city.
Mayor Chmiel: Maybe, just before you start I'd like to bring this up to Council. In looking at what has
transpired, maybe it would be best for Council to sit down and work directly with the haulers at a work session.
Just as a suggestion. And to see if we can't pull something together at that particular time and if we can't, then
we have our opportunity to go back to where we're at right now.
Councilman Senn: Doesn't bother me.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: You know, in my opinion and in sitting on the committee.
Mayor Chmiel: Well I sat on the committee too.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I know. And the issues, you know.
Mayor Chmiel: It's a hard thing to really address and I do, I do believe in the free enterprise system but I think
what I'd like to do is try that particular position out. If we can't come up with a conclusion, then let's move
ahead with it. We've sat around as long as we have. Let's go from there.
Councilman Senn: If nothing else, it will prolong it out a while longer.
Mayor Chmiel: Well, that too.
Councilman Senn: Our first open work session is what, a few months down the road?
Mayor Chmiel: Maybe that I think is the position that we should come from and have the haulers come back.
Get a date pulled together and Don will notify each of you of that meeting and then we can sit down and really
work from there. But that meeting we'd better come up with a conclusion. Okay? So maybe what we should
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
do, I'd like to give you some time but we have a few more items on the agenda that are going to be
controversial and we're going to be sitting here until midnight, or probably after that. But if you could
summarize something in just two minutes, I'll be more than happy to let you do that.
Tom Moline: Okay. First of all, your point of dragging it out a little bit more. By State Statutes, you can do it
no quicker than 6 months. There's no time limit on the other end and I think that's good. Alright. We want to
do what's right. Negotiation. I think the haulers do feel that we have tried to negotiate. It's not been a give
and take situation. It's not, this is bad. We don't want this. It's just, we proposed something and then a blanket
statement that that's not good enough, okay. It's not been a give and take on individual items. This contract, I
don't think any of the haulers think it's good. There's some very bad things. Number one, we're not guarantee
payment. We're tied to a contract to provide service. We're not guaranteed payment. That issue was brought
up and there's no regrets for it. Okay. As far as negotiated prices here, if you take a look at all the prices on
that whole questionnaire, look at the variation in them. On one, there's some mistakes in there. There's some
omissions in there. There was a wide range of responses on the part of the hauler and in talking with the
others, I don't believe all of the points were completely understood. We're all in the same business. We're all
successful. Otherwise we wouldn't be here today but you've got a very wide range. There was some real
confusion on that whole questionnaire and the whole price issue, so far we have spent two sessions on it.
Supposedly it's ended now. Our total thoughts after the second session was, is the negotiations over? Was that
it? You know we're feeling a little resigned right now. A little beat up. I think that's why you haven't heard
from us before. We consider ourselves a guest here in the community. We provide a service. We try to do it
in the most cost effective manner that we can. Provide a good service. That is our goal and I don't know, we're
feeling a bit beat up, so. Be it right or wrong. Thank you.
Councilman Berquist: I missed your name.
Tom Moline: Oh! My name's Tom Moline. I'm with Woodlake Sanitation.
Councilman Berquist: Thank you Tom.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay with that, can I have a motion to put this on a work session and sit down with the haulers
and Don will set that up and notify the haulers as to what date that's going to be.
Councilman Senn: So moved.
Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second? I'll second it.
Councilman Senn moved, Mayor Chmiel seconded to table the final contract negotiations for organized
collection and direct staff to set up a work session with the City Council and the haulers. All voted in favor
and the motion carried.
VARIANCE REQUEST FOR A 6.5 FOOT SIDE YARD SETBACK VARIANCE FOR THE CONSTRU
OF A SHED 931 SADDLEBROOK TRAIL, MATTHEW HOFFMAN.
Mayor Chmiel: What happened with the Board of Adjustments and Appeals with this particular one? Mark?
Or Willard?
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Willard Johnson: The Board of Adjustments and Appeals, it was a split vote. Carol and I denied the variance.
Mark... ordinance. If the city isn't satisfied with the ordinance, then we should change it ... There was no
hardship. They didn't prove to us that, at least to me and Carol that city staff made a mistake. We feel that city
staff was right. The owner, I went out to the property. He tells me he's 5 feet from the property line. I get out
there and he tells me it's 5 feet from the property line. They send city staff out to measure it, it's 18 inches so
there's some problems on both sides.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Would you like to?
John Rask: Sure, just briefly here. As you read, Council considered this at your last meeting. At that time I
think the Council felt, in light of everything that happened, a 5 foot variance would be something that the
Council would consider. The applicant did apply for a 6 1/2 foot variance, leaving the wall of the structure
approximately 3 1/2 feet from the property line. This was his request. Again, I think Council felt last time the
5 foot setback would be appropriate. Staff has provided a recommendation and finding for a 5 foot variance
along with a recommendation to deny the variance as submitted.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thanks. Is the applicant still here?
Councilman Senn: No. Oh he came back, okay. He told me he left and... I was just going to deliver his
message.
Matthew Hoffman: Yeah, we applied for a 3 1/2 foot setback. The same as we had, or 6 1/2 I guess actually.
Saying that we'd leave the floor where it is and move the wall back 2 feet and it seems like everybody, it met
the code. It can be moved to 5 feet. That was our other option in discussing it with John. It doesn't matter to
me either way. As far as any ... it was staff said it was 5 feet. They fully admitted that I talked to everybody,
the Board of Adjustments doesn't really appeal, or doesn't, the Board of Adjustments and Appeals doesn't really
seem to comprehend that but the inspection department has said... It was given the floor where it's at, and that
moved the side wall back 2 feet. That gave us the setback beyond the 3 feet for the fire wall and if Council
wants to put it 5 feet, the whole thing—that was just the two options. Trying to make this thing go away as fast
and easy as possible. If there's any questions, I'll try to answer them.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any questions from Council?
Councilman Berquist: At the January 23rd meeting Colleen said, alright let's just get this over with and do what
makes sense. Move the shed 5 feet please. You said, 5 feet? Do I need the variance then or do I go to 5 feet
and not go in to sweat it. Mark said, let's approve this thing with the stipulation that (a), you get a letter from
your neighbor that says he's going to put shed 5 feet away too. Or 5 feet is fine with me. And (b), that you
move it back to 5 feet. And now we've got an application for a variance that says 6 1/2 feet.
Matthew Hoffman: No. Staff and I discussed that it could be moved. Either leave the base where it's at with a
variance for 6 1/2 feet which would get beyond the fire wall. Or move over the floor and move the floor in the
spring to the 5 foot variance and it was up to the Council or the Board of Appeals to decide which one it was
going to be. I was just trying to make it easy for everybody all the way around.
Councilman Berquist: Alright. So you are in agreement. First of all, have you got something from your
neighbor that says I don't mind it's 10 foot but 5 feet's fine and I might even put a shed there too?
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' City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Matthew Hoffman: When I left I thought the way, I've got one from one neighbor. Not from the other
' neighbor.
Councilman Berquist: Well the neighbor who's property that adjoins.
' Matthew Hoffman: Yeah, that one I don't have. I thought staff said it was going to be published in the paper
and that was enough.
' John Rask: The neighbor did receive notification of that meeting tonight.
Councilman Berquist: Did he respond in any manner?
John Rask: No, we did not hear from him.
Councilman Berquist: Okay. So you are willing to move this thing back to 5 feet?
Matthew Hoffman: Yeah. That's perfectly fine. I just looked at...
' Councilman Berquist: Alright. That's all I want to know.
Mayor Chmiel: Alright. Colleen, do you have any questions?
' Councilwoman Dockendorf: No.
Mayor Chmiel: Michael.
' Councilman Mason: Well I don't have any questions but I'm not going to vote for the variance. I think people
probably know how I feel about variances like that but I'll be happy to expound upon it if anyone wants me to.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Mark.
Councilman Senn: No questions, no.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Is there a motion?
' Councilman Senn: I would make the motion that we give a variance to allow construction of the shed within
five feet of the property line based on the finding that an error, in terms of information, created the need for the
variance.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay.
Councilman Senn: And if I could expound on that. Not as part of the motion, and I said this at the Board of
' Adjustments. I don't feel we're acting on a variance here as a hardship but there is a very specific clause or
wording in the ordinance that says, when a mistake or an error is made in terms of the information, that can
create an equal sense of urgency for the variance as a hardship. And I think we should be clear that that's why
' we are acting on it and not creating in effect a precedent, or that this creates a hardship.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well I would like to comment that I will support your motion but not for that
reason. To be honest, it's expediency in this matter. In terms of the mistake, I think there were mistakes on
both sides granted. However, the majority of the mistakes were made on the applicant's part. But for the worst
of all reasons, I want to get this issue out of the way.
Councilman Berquist: I'll second it.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. There's been a motion with a second. Any other discussions? Let me just indicate
my concerns with this. I still think that the ordinance should be as it reads with the 10 feet. And I feel that
even though there's been some incorrect information provided by staff, it just makes it easier for somebody else
to come in and do the same thing, and even apply for that kind of variance with that setback. I've seen a few
other locations just recently driving around town just to see some of those sheds are and there are some of them
that are just right up to the lines as well. Lot lines. So I guess I will not call the question.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the variance allowing the shed to be built
within five (5) feet of the property line based on the finding that an error, in terms of information, by city staff
created the need for the variance. All voted in favor, except Councilman Mason and Mayor Chmiel who
opposed, and the motion carved with a vote of 3 to 2.
Councilman Mason: May I?
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, Michael.
Councilman Mason: This doesn't have to do with this in general. But I'm concerned right now. I'm concerned
because, and I'm going to preface this by saying I don't know that there is anyone that supports staff at least as
much as I do, sitting up here. There was misinformation apparently given out here. I know for a fact one of
the reasons, item number 11 I believe is going to be as contentious as it is because information was given out
that was correct but was perhaps misinterpreted because it wasn't as clear as it could have been. I have a
feeling that this organized collection issue, I'm hearing some people saying, I have no idea how negotiations
have been going on organized collection until I got this. I heard nothing about it. And I'm not quite sure where
this is leading but I know there are a lot of angry people out there tonight and we're all going to have to deal
with it and I don't know. I'm concerned. I'm concerned about that.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. We'll move on to item number 10.
SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A 3.100 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING, LOT 2 BLOCK 1 CHANHASSEN
RETAIL 3RD ADDITION, SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF WEST 78TH STREET
AND POWERS BOULEVARD, BOSTON CHICKEN.
Bob Generous: Mr. Mayor. Councilmembers. First of all there's a typo in the public hearing. It's a 3,100
square foot building. The applicant, Northstar Restaurants is requesting site plan approval for their restaurant on
the Chan Retail 3rd Addition site. This is the third lot of the former Outlot B that was previously approved for
subdivision and site plan approval for a Perkins and a Taco Bell restaurant. The development of this site not
only had to comply with city code but the Highway 5 design criteria and the PUD requirements that were
established as part of the Target development. It includes many design guidelines that had to be followed by
the applicant. The orientation of the structure is actually to Highway 5 rather than to West 78th. However the
applicant has revised their elevations to create a better presence on West 78th, which is the downtown area.
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I City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
The landscaping for this project, it conforms, it exceeds city requirements and it actually compliments the
' landscaping that is being proposed for the Taco Bell and Perkins site. As well as Outlot A which the city will
be landscaping in the future as a part of their entryway treatment. Staff is recommending approval of this site
plan with the conditions stated in our report and we'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Is there any questions of staff at this time? If not, is the applicant here this
evening?
Chris Lombardi: Yes.
Mayor Chmiel: Would you like to give us your presentation as to the application?
' Chris Lombardi: My name is Chris Lombardi and I'm Vice President of Development of Northstar Restaurants,
which is a franchisee for Boston Chicken in Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska... What we proposed is a little more of
a ... restaurant on the site. I think staff has done a good job in guiding us so that we can address all the
architectural and site plan requirements you had on the project ... as well as the PUD. I don't have any kind of a
real formal presentation. I'd be more than happy to answer any questions or reference any comments you may
have in regards to our site plan.
' Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Are there any questions by Council? Steve.
Councilman Berquist: No. I don't think so. I don't have anything specific, no.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Colleen.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: One comment. I appreciate the graphics very much. Very, very much. It really
helps to visualize.
' Chris Lombardi: Thank you and to give credit where credit is due, that was Mr. Generous' guidance to us.
Councilwoman Dockendorf. Yeah. Excellent guidance. Do you ever deviate from the squareness of your
building?
' Chris Lombardi: To answer the question, very, very rarely. For the amount of cooking that is done on the
premises and prep work, etc, the inside kitchen layout and the customer flow within the restaurant really dictates
' the outside, or the dimension of the building to be fairly square. If you were to take a look at the inside layout
and you see it's very efficiently laid out. It's a real tight fit, while trying to keep the square footage down.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: And recognizing that you're a fairly young franchise, have you gotten into window
' signage, temporary window signage? You know 99 cent chicken leg or something.
Chris Lombardi: To answer the question, we haven't to date and quite frankly I don't see us moving in that
' direction. The concept is, for lack of a better term, it's a step up from the typical fast food. We're kind of a
niche market between a fast food and a casual dining. So price quoting quite frankly is not, we're not selling
the 69 or 99 cent menu item.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay. Nothing further.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Councilman Mason: Just one. Picture number 5 on the graphic here. I'm guessing that's the view from
Highway 5, more or less?
Chris Lombardi: That's really a viewpoint of somebody in a helicopter over Highway 5 because that's taken
from a rather high elevation.
Councilman Mason: Well okay. Alright, that's fine. I know there was concern about view of all the HVAC
stuff on the roof from Highway 5. Did that get fixed?
Chris Lombardi: I believe to staffs satisfaction. That was prior to us putting a pitch roof element to hide that
Councilman Berquist: What's wrong with that HVAC stuff?
Councilman Mason: Well now Mr. Berquist, I understand. I understand. All I want it to do is work. I don't
want to look at it. And maybe this isn't the time for this but are we going to get into a discussion, whether
rotisserie and roasted chicken can be on the awning or not tonight?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yeah, we will.
Councilman Mason: I mean that's pretty subjective and maybe, I don't know.
Chris Lombardi: My understanding is that we're not allowed to have it.
Kate Aanenson: We treated this the same way we did with Perkins. We went through that discussion about the
awning and signage and we're just treating them both the same.
Councilman Mason: Right. No, I understand that. And yeah. The plan looks good. My question for you is,
is your chicken really as good as my in -laws in Parker, Colorado say it is? Because if it is, you'll do well here.
Chris Lombardi: It's my business. Absolutely.
Councilman Mason: I'm kind of looking forward to it, to tell you the truth.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, I was in one last week. They have real mashed potatoes.
Councilman Mason: Real? Are they really?
Chris Lombardi: Daily, absolutely.
Councilman Mason: It looks well thought out. Good. I'm done.
Mayor Chmiel: Mark.
Councilman Senn: I won't even try to follow all that. It looks fine to me.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I notice just one thing. Just one quick thing. You have the goosenecks of the red
lights that will be on the outside of the particular building.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
L
C
u
0
L
i
L
Chris Lombardi: That's correct.
Mayor Chmiel: Is that still going through? This particular picture doesn't show any.
Chris Lombardi: That particular picture that you see there is our typical prototype where the awnings are back
lit. And since we're not back lighting, we went with the gooseneck exterior lighting.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. That's down lighting so it's not going to be any problem as far as bouncing of lights?
Chris Lombardi: No, it's down lighting.
Mayor Chmiel: Good. Alright. Any other questions? Any other discussion?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: One comment. I know that Ladd voted against it basically because of the roof
element. It wasn't because it wasn't screened. It was just because it was.
Kate Aanenson: The type of design.
Bob Generous: He thought there might have been more peak to it or something. He wasn't really sure.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay. Alright. Well I'll let that go. Well, whenever Ladd gets concerned about
something, I do too. But it achieves it's objective. I'm not going to pursue it. My other comment is, I don't
know if I read it in the Trib this weekend but I think it's Eagan that is going through this. Trying to get a white
table cloth restaurant in town.
Roger Knutson: Apple Valley.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I guess other people read too. Some southern suburb. In the east. Where was I
leading with this? Do we have.
Councilman Senn: It's the same suburb that has an economic building fund that will pay your rent for the first
year if you move there.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Oh! Anyway, is there anything that we can do? I mean nothing against Boston
Chicken but we have one in town and everyone I know is clambering for a fine dining establishment.
Councilman Mason: Well we're one step closer with Boston Chicken.
Councilman Senn: Well I think Don just said this was, wasn't it?
Mayor Chmiel: That's right. A little more mashed potatoes.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well, as long as a representative from Lotus Realty is here. Brad, is anything
going to develop with the Animal Fair building?
Brad Johnson: I'm not quite sure.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I would strongly encourage, in fact beg you to pursue something along a finer
dining establishment in that area.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Is there a motion?
Councilman Mason: I move approval of Site Plan Review.
Councilman Senn: Second.
Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Senn seconded to approve Site Plan #94 -8 for Boston Chicken as
shown on the plans dated January 11, 1995, subject to the following conditions:
1. Relocate fire hydrant approximately 90 feet south and 22 feet east.
2. Install "No Parking Fire Lane" signs and paint yellow the corresponding curb. Contact the Fire Marshal
for specific location. See Policy #06 -1991. Copy Enclosed.
3. Address numbers shall be installed per Chanhassen Fire Department Fire Prevention Policy #29 -1992.
Copy Enclosed.
4. All internal streets and drives within the overall development are considered private and shall be
maintained as such. The developer shall provide cross access easements for the use of the common
driveways.
5. The applicant shall install aeration/irrigation tubing, see Figure 11 -2, if separate irrigation is provided, or 11 -3,
if separate irrigation is not provided, in each peninsular or island type landscape area less than 10 feet in
width.
6. The applicant shall be responsible for providing irrigation to any development trees located in the outlot.
Such irrigation piping shall be located entirely on Lot 2.
7. The applicant shall supply the city with a $2,500.00 financial guarantee (letter of credit or cash escrow) to
guarantee protection of the existing public utility facilities and guarantee boulevard restoration. The applicant
shall supply the city with a $8,000.00 financial guarantee (letter of credit or cash escrow) to guarantee a
minimum landscaping budget for the project.
8. All internal streets and drives are considered private. The applicant should be aware that they will need to
enter into a cross access easement for the use of the common driveways with the other two property owners.
9. All proposed utility lines within the site are considered private and shall be maintained as such. The
applicant will be responsible for obtaining all of the necessary agency permits associated with the site plan
development including but not limited to the Watershed District, Health Department, PCA, and MWCC.
10. Construction access to the site shall be from the existing Target driveway and not West 78th Street or Powers
Boulevard. The applicant and /or contractor shall install and maintain a gravel construction entrance until the
access driveway is paved with a bituminous surface.
46
t City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
11. Landscaping materials may be planted within the city's outlot as long as the plantings do not interfere with
maintenance of the existing utility lines. The applicant shall provide a revised landscaping plan showing the
existing utilities in relation to the proposed landscaping materials.
12. Site plan approval is contingent upon the recording of the final plat documents for Chanhassen Retail 2nd
' and 3rd Additions.
13. The grading and drainage plan should be revised to be compatible with the overall site grading development
' plans for Chanhassen Retail 3rd Addition. Detailed storm drainage calculations for a 10 year storm event
shall be submitted for review and approval by city staff.
14. The development shall enter into a site development contract with the city and provide the necessary financial
security to guarantee compliance with the terms of approval.
15. If permitted by the electrical code, the electric meter box on the north elevation shall be lowered by two feet.
16. The applicant shall delete the advertisements on the awnings.
17. The color scheme for the parking lot light poles shall be of neutral colors.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
REZONING OF 49.9 ACRES OF PROPERTY ZONED A2 AGRICULTURAL ESTATE TO R4. MIXED LOW
DENSITY RESIDENTIAL PRELBUNARY PLAT OF 49.9 ACRES INTO 92 TWIN HOME LOTS AND ONE
OUTLOT• AND A WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT, LOCATED NORTH OF HIGHWAY 5
APPROXIMATELY 1/4 MILE EAST SIDE OF GALPIN BOULEVARD (CR 117). LAKE ANN HIGHL
LOTUS REALTY.
Public Present:
Name Address
Kevin & Joan Joyce
2043 Brinker Street
Dawn Cook Ronningen
7471 Tulip Court
Virginia Bell
7476 Crocus Court
Sharon & Mark Pryor
7541 Windmill Drive
Joy & Tim Bott
7490 Tulip Court
Howard Sall & M.F. Cox
7491 Tulip Court
David & Cinda Jensen
2173 Brinker Street
Charles Peterson
7496 Crocus Court
Mary Jane & Al Olson
7461 Windmill Drive
Jim Fiedler
7500 Windmill Drive
Sue Reimers
7495 Crocus Court
Amit Diamond
2117 Brinker Street
Rick Manning
7460 Windmill Drive
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Bob Generous: Mr. Mayor, Council members. This is a preliminary plat for a 92 unit twin home development
and one large outlot with a second small secondary outlot that would provide possible future connection for the
Hennesey property to the east. The issues involved in this is, the property is currently designated for low
density residential use which would permit a net density of 1.2 to 4 units per acre. The question is, what is the
appropriate zoning to implement the land use designation. The applicant has requested an R4 zoning, which is
consistent with the land use density. Other alternatives would be an R4 with the next single family detached
and single family attached, residential single family straight subdivision with minimum 15,000 lots, a planned
unit development for single family development. However, the applicant has decided that this is the type of
development that they would want to request the approval on. They're proposing this development in two
phases. The first phase is approximately 38 units on the northern third of the site. They would have 19
structures that would be constructed. For this phase of the construction they would, do have city sewer and
water available. That would come down Windmill Run and connect into this development. The access for the
first phase of the development would be off of Galpin Boulevard with a secondary access on Windmill Drive. I
should note that this, the Council needs to make a decision on this plat tonight because of the requirements in
the subdivision ordinance. We have an extension to this date for City Council to make a decision. At one time
the applicant has suggested using a north alignment for the frontage road. When Council made their decision on
the 23rd to use the southern alignment, staff and the applicant reviewed it. Reviewed the plat and determined
that this subdivision would still work. Outlot A has sufficient room to permit almost any alignment of a north
Highway 5 frontage road. At the time that the final alignment for the north frontage road is determined, the
applicant will plat that as part of the Outlot A development of the site. The Planning Commission did
recommend denial of this plat. The primary reason for this was they felt that the plat was premature without the
determination of the north Highway 5 frontage road. They were also concerned that they believe that this plat
would be better developed through the PUD process. Specifically they wanted some architectural controls to
determine or for the city to specify that the applicant would provide alternate facade treatments and coloring to
the development. Staff has proposed, as one of the conditions that a mixture of building elevations be provided.
In discussion with the applicant they have agreed that they can do that with us. As provide the future home
buyers a palate of colors. However, they also advised you that their range is very limited. It's from one grade
of gray to another. Staff is recommending approval of the subdivision and would be happy to answer any
questions that you may have.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you Bob. This evening I've asked many of the people from Windmill Run to make a
statement, or to have them make their statements but not to reiterate basically what we have already have in file
and we do have a lot of comments contained within so we've gone through this. Everybody knows exactly what
their, the positions that have come through. If you have something new to add to this particular project, that I
did ask that you would come up and just state your name and your address. We'll try to confine this to just a
few minutes, if you could. So with this, I'd like to have the proposal brought forward and presented to Council.
Brad Johnson: Mr. Mayor, members of Council. My name is Brad Johnson... moved to 241 Frontier Trail. I'm
here to speak on behalf of the project. Basically we're going to have two major presenters. One will be Peter
Beck, from our law firm and Ross Fefercom who's with Country Homes, which I think a lot of you are
wondering what the product is. So we'll spend most of our time that we're allocated for that. A brief review is
that the project is located here, north of Windmill Run and Royal Oak. For the record, we had originally
proposed this project prior to either one of these being proposed and we've been just delaying it until the
Highway 5 corridor study was completed so that's one of the things that we've been concerned about. As far as
the staff report is concerned, I think we're pretty much in agreement with what they have, except as of my letter
December 5th said, that we're being requested to have a conservation easement across this portion of the
property. We're not opposed to that. However, if it's ever used for a trail, we would prefer to request that it be
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' Ci ty Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
be paid for as the rest of the trail area is, and I think Mr. Hoffman is in agreement with that. So that would
' offset our fee. It really doesn't affect us in this particular subdivision. It's not part of it but that's just an issue
that we wanted to deal with as we go through. With that, I'd like to also point out that one of the concerns is
the density and the planning. Currently the Royal Oaks subdivision is a 20, 2 units per acre. The next
subdivision which we consider to be a buffer again to the next subdivision is 2.5 and we're currently at about a
' 3.5 units per density so we're working our way down towards Highway 5. This is medium density which would
be a maximum of 8 units per acre. With that I'd like to have Peter Beck come up and take you through the plat
itself and he'll be assisted if necessary by Chris Barringer of...Ellness Architects so, Peter.
' Peter Beck: Mr. Mayor, Council members. I will go through the plat somewhat briefly. It was also my
assignment to review some of the points in the letter that I wrote to the Mayor and the Councilmembers. In the
' spirit of the Mayor's request ... be very brief in my comments in that letter. I'm sure you've had a chance to read
it and I won't take up your time going over it. The plat is, as Bob pointed out, is a 96 unit twin home
development on Dr. Conway's land. And Brad showed the transition that we see in this neighborhood going
from lower to higher densities as we move closer to the highway corridor. Highway 5 corridor. And that is
' consistent with the Comp Plan. Consistent with all the efforts that have gone into the Highway 5 corridor study
and we think it's important to show the density transition because this is higher density land whether or not it be
a twin home project. It will be a higher density land as it gets closer to the highway. As Bob said also, we're
' here tonight to talk about rezoning for the twin home project. The Outlot A is, no zoning approvals are sought
for that and a preliminary plat for the twin home project and the first phase would come in later then for final
plat. And at that time we would take care of the specifics on building materials and what not. We have a
colored rendering of the plat also. And this has been prepared primarily to show the amount of green space and
' the amount of landscaping in this project. There have, over the past several months we've had a number of
meetings with some representatives of the neighborhood to the north and of course we heard their comments at
the Planning Commission. In response to those meetings and those comments we have included in the proposal
' a very strong landscape buffer on the northern edge and we've also, in our last meeting with a couple of the
neighbors, there was a request that there be heavier landscaping on this area of the plat to screen again the
houses to the north from the backs of the Country Homes in that part of the plat. So this landscaping plan
' shows that in reality there will be more landscaping in the project than is shown on this plan but it is
demonstrative of the proportions that we will be emphasizing landscaping on this buffer and in this area. There
will be quite a bit more here as Ross does his project. We also asked BRW to prepare some graphics of the
buffer area between the single family detached project and the twin home project to the south. We're showing
' here the 3 foot berm with landscaping again which ties into the drawing I just showed and it will be, and we
also are showing what it would look like looking from north to south. From the existing homes to the twin
homes to the south. A couple of things. In the middle here we have shown a 5 foot berm which we could
' accommodate in some areas of the plat. This shows some of the berming occurring on the single family side.
In talking about it tonight, we think we have come up with a plan where the 5 foot berm could be done entirely
on, in Ross' project. He has a new twin home that he is beginning to develop that would take less depth so we
are proposing to put that product along the entire northern boundaries and that will enable us too, this is
' something that we hadn't been aware of until tonight. It will enable us to agree to a 50% increase in the setback
along that property line. From 30 feet to actually what we're proposing is 48 feet, which is more than a 50%
increase. And with that, the increase setback we can raise the berm if the Council feels that necessary. Now
' and then of course the homes would be even further, 50% further away from the property line. Again, in our
effort throughout the planning process for this and in our meetings with the neighbors has been to find ways to
make this project, to accommodate that neighborhood any way that we can while still keeping this project.
' There's been a lot of talk about can we do single family homes along that northern edge. And as we have
explained to the Planning Commission and to those from the neighborhood who have met with us, we just
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
simply can't and keep this project. This project is a twin home project in it's entirety. It needs to be a twin
home project in it's entirety. An integrated community that can be marketed and lived in by the residents as a
twin home project. But that being a given, that it will be a twin home project, we have looked for every way
possible to buffer it from the neighbors. As I said tonight we're proposing to move the setbacks even further
back and then finally, in talking to Ross, we can agree that the elevation of the homes along that property line,
the rear property elevations will be held at one story. There will be no walkouts for instance. There will be
some dormers but they will be one story dormers but we would not have the two story facade facing the north
facing... So again, just another effort to ... any impact that might be caused by this development. So that's about
what I have to say about the project. Of course we have a representative from BRW and Brad that can answer
specific questions about the plat. We'd like to spend the bulk of our time tonight giving you an opportunity to
see Ross Fefercorn and his product just because his product is ... a very nice product. It would be a very nice
addition to this neighborhood. Again to touch briefly on the point that I made in the letter, for the reasons that
are set forth in there and I would ask that that letter be a part of the record... We think this project fits right in
with the comprehensive plan. We think that it is not premature. We have arranged the outlot so that it could
accommodate any alignment of the frontage road that the Council may decide at a future time. We think that
the Council has an opportunity here to gain all the benefits of a planned unit development without the PUD
zoning. We have agreed to a particular product and will agree to that with this approval process. We have
lived up to the standards of the new Highway 5 corridor ordinance and exceeded them in many instances. For
instance in the landscaping we far exceeded any existing city requirements. We think the R4 zoning will work
for this project and will deliver a very nice addition to the community. The other area of concern for the
neighborhood was the connection of Windmill Run Road to their neighborhood and the plat as proposed does
show that connection. As I said in my letter, it's something that does not benefit our project and we are not
going to fall... We will leave it to the Council to determine whether it be made. As we have shown, the plat
can be redesigned to take away that connection. We think at least three options. One is connecting as shown.
Another is temporary connecting but leaving closed until the frontage road opens so that it connects through to
the east ... I think I'll leave you with that. I guess my final comment would be ... bringing back your
comprehensive plan and the fact that this project is consistent with the low density designation there which is, in
terms of city wide low density designation accommodating a variety of densities in the 1 to 4 unit per acre
range. And the higher densities are planned to be along the Highway 5 corridor. With that I would turn it over
to Ross and he'd like to take a few minutes and a slide presentation that he'd like to show you about his existing
projects in other communities. He will be pointing out, as he goes through, the fact that this project is much
less dense than the projects you'll see. For instance the distances between buildings are 50% more in this, in the
Chanhassen project than they are in the pictures. He can point that out as he goes. Keep that in mind. You'll
be seeing much more green space and much more landscaping in Chanhassen. As Ross is setting up, there's one
more thing that I did want to mention. As Bob pointed out, tonight is the deadline for this site. However that
deadline can be extended by our agreement to it tonight so I wouldn't... go on record in agreement.
Mayor Chmiel: Appreciate that.
Ross Fefercorn: ...I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Ross Fefercom. I'm the President of Country
Home Builders. Just a brief background... I've been in the building business for about 12 years now and our
primary business has been building multiple family townhouses for the last 5 years... We've had a very good
history in the cities of Apple Valley ... and in Burnsville and in Eagan and we're currently in Woodbury.
Currently we're active in the Eden Prairie market, the Apple Valley market. The Eagan market and we hope to
be building in Chanhassen. We have often considered ourselves somewhat pioneers of the retirement and the
market for empty nesters ... At the time we began building in Apple Valley, I don't know of more than one or two
other builders in the entire metropolitan area that were building... Just in looking at the 1995 Spring Parade of
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
I
F
Homes book that I just received a copy from the Builders Association of the Twin Cities, which we are
presenting two homes in this year, they list the area of Victoria, Chanhassen, Minnetonka, and Eden Prairie,
there are 12 different builders building a similar type of home as our's. The average price range is about
$280,000.00. High end being nearly $500,000.00. The low end ... $120,000.00 range. So the product that we're
planning on building in this site is not unusual to the marketplace. It is a well thought of and it's currently
sought after by many, many citizens throughout the metropolitan area as is demonstrated by the number of
builders who are entering this market. One thing that's unique about our building company is that we manage
the homeowner associations once we've built the site, which means that the builder continues to have a hands on
experience with maintaining the quality of the landscaping and the desirability of the neighborhood. So it's a
very quality product with a lot of attention to details. And I'll try to show you some slides that were taken this
summer at our Eagan site, most of which were taken within a few months and in some cases a few weeks after
landscaping was installed. We like to pride ourselves in the amount of landscaping we install. We have a
budget of between $5,000.00 and $6,000.00 per home. Not per building. Per home for foundation landscaping,
which surrounds the entire building, irrigation systems, complete sod, boulevard trees, many of which are
transplanted by tree spade. Others are balled and burlapped. One of the big differences between this site and
the site that I'm going to show you is that the density here is about 65% lower than it is in our Eagan site. We
have a density of about 4 1/2 or 5 units per acre in Eagan where this site is about 3 1/2 units per acre. The
distance between buildings, this direction, in the Eagan site averages about 50 feet. This site averages about 75
feet. So there's a significantly greater amount of green space or landscaping between buildings and it's a unique
opportunity I think as we go. It will be a very, very low impact, low density type of... Also as Peter mentioned,
one thing that we also pride ourselves in is a continual product improvement. Product development in terms of
design. We never throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water but rather we improve on what we're doing
presently. The slides I'm going to show you will be similar to what ... and some of the roof lines and roofscapes
that we think are more exciting... while we're using some of the same products... northern tier we'll be able to use
a new product that will be about 20 feet shorter than what is demonstrated here which will increase the amount
of setback from the property line. Coupled with the amount of vegetation or landscaping we'll be installing
along the berm, I think it will be a very handsome addition. With that let me just start the slide presentation
and I will talk through this as I go through each one.
At this point Ross Fefemom presented his slide presentation.
Mayor Chmiel: Does Council have any questions in regards to what has just been indicated to you?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I have a few. You had said you have a dozen different plans.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: And does that include a variety of two story as well as single story?
Ross Fefercorn: Yes.
Ross Fefercorn: Well what happens, as we go through a development of this type and do the site plan, because
of grades and constraints of the site, certain lots are inherently more appropriate for basements... and others are
more appropriate for walkouts. And those are predesignated as walkouts or lookout types of designs.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Based on landforms.
Ross Fefercorn: ...and from that, the other sites are designated to not have basements or lookouts and that's
basically on the slate to begin with. At that point, when we market the homes that are ... there's probably a dozen
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
different varieties of each... From there we begin to develop the particular custom home for that customer and
we have to create a floorplan ... customer comes in and that's part of the purchase agreement process. It's
designed so we can...
Councilwoman Dockendorf: And do you have any rules that you follow in terms of Model A can't sit next to 3
Model A's or?
Ross Fefercorn: Well historically we've let it happen... market dictates it. What we do however is designate the
walkouts, the lookouts and also which direction the garages will face. So we go through and pre -plan whether
it's 2 car or 2 1/2 or 3 car garages ... and which way the driveway will face so the streetscape is constantly
changing and fluctuating.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: So that's pre- designated? I mean I'm seeing a lot of different variations on how
the driveways are going and that's pre- designated.
Ross Fefercorn: Right. And this plan, this illustrative plan has been drawn to demonstrate that the buildings
work on the site. That the lots are larger than we even would ever dream of using in other cities... When we
actually get down to the fine tuning of this plat, we'll work with the staff and we'll demonstrate each and every
driveway variation. For example, we can commit that the new plan will talk about that ... to go along the
northern lot.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: But is that one plan?
Ross Fefercorn: No. It's about two different or three different plans. Each with several varieties in itself.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: So you can put different... and I couldn't help noticing from your slides, they're all
gray with white trim.
Ross Fefercorn: Yeah. We've tried to create sort of a community sense. It's kind of a market driven affair with
color. We have other developments, which I don't have pictures of where we have areas where there's
groupings of gray and beige and other variations of a theme where it still looks like a consistent community.
And a particular development to look at is, through our own market driven research, customers really like that
little cluster, sort of New England look. It's difficult to get away with that ... what we don't show in those slides
is that the Chanhassen, Eden Prairie, the new Apple Valley site all have about 30 -35% brick exterior. And the
brick will change in pinks and beiges and grays and then ... and that we can demonstrate also.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: So you're saying that that, I mean to me that, you know maybe I'm opposite the
market but I would think the more differentiation you could have with your neighbors, the better. So you
haven't found that's what people are wanting? They're wanting more of the same then?
Ross Fefercorn: They're wanting to look like a ... New England style home. I mean we create variations within
the ... there's a pallet of colors that Lundgren or ... and we're no different.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay. And just a final question. How are your sales in Eden Prairie? Are you
finding that there is really a market for it in this area?
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Ross Fefercorn: Yes. Our biggest concern in Eden Prairie, for us personally which has been, we have been
' primarily a builder in St. Paul and moved to areas south of the river and ... Apple Valley, and haven't been well
known in this area of town. Our sales are growing and we have excellent response now. We don't have a
model... in the process of converting to purchase agreements and they're averaging in the high 200's. And I
' believe the market is strong. It will continue to be strong.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay. That's all I have for now.
' Councilman Berquist: I've got a couple of questions. You're gearing sort of towards a self contained
community. I don't know if that's accurate or not. Are there any community buildings Ross?
Ross Fefercorn: No. No. I'm glad you asked that question. It's been my experience as we developed
homeowners associations, that unless it's an extremely large development, the association doesn't really want to
or have the budget to take care of outbuildings or a special amenity yard. The type of people who live in this
development want a maintenance free exteriors. They want their yards taken care of for them. They want it
well lighted and a handsome neighborhood. They want ... they really don't want...
Councilman Berquist: That was my next question was, you manage the homeowner association. The list of
items that the homeowners association takes care of is mowing, exterior upkeep?
Ross Fefercorn: It's virtually everything on the exterior building from the...
' Councilman Berquist: Trash pick -up?
Ross Fefercom: And also, while we're talking about trash ... with about 1 1/2 persons per household, this is a
' very low impact on trash in these areas. Very, very low impact. So there isn't a lot of trash created...
Councilman Berquist: I've got one. You eluded to the shorter units. Specifically on the north. Does that then
t mean that the 75 foot average distance between units would decrease as the footprint went to the side?
Ross Fefercorn: They're 4 feet wider so it be... Also, while we're talking about homeowners associations. A lot
of builders will come in to a community and build private streets, as you all know. Private streets will allow a
' builder to have ... and actually it's involved in the PUD process and that's all fine and dandy for the landowner
and for the developer... We have always chosen the route that streets ought to be public and what that means is
that the taxpayers who buy these homes so their...
' Councilman Berquist: What are the demographics in a project like Eagan?
' Ross Fefercorn: Eagan? ... project. Last count, the average age was right around 60. Youngest couple there, a
professional couple in their mid -30's. Generally it's their first or second home. A lot of times they're moving
for a corporate move and since... desire sort of a maintenance free type of living. The second largest group
would be divorcees or single adult professionals. Some have children. Some do not. And the largest group
' would probably be the active empty nester... ranges from 50 to 75 years old.
Councilman Berquist: That's the largest group?
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Ross Fefercom: Yeah, that's the largest group. Generally they're living ... or in about a 5 mile radius around the
site and frequently the homes are being inspected by adult children who live in the community. A lot of times
the family that's moving in is coming from an outstate area or another... area. The adult children in the family...
so it's very much a family affair. It is absolutely not unusual that before a sale is consummated, that the entire
extended family... from grandchildren that are 4 or 5 years old to the adult children... Very much a family affair
and very much appropriate...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any other questions? Mike?
Councilman Mason: No.
Mayor Chmiel: Mark.
Ross Fefercorn: There was one last thing. I would like to compliment the City of Chanhassen on their
development of the downtown area...
Councilman Senn: One point in your presentation you confused me a little bit. You were talking about 1 1/2
story, okay. And maybe I misheard you but I thought you said there was a master suite on the first floor but
there's an owners master suite on the second floor. What's that all about?
Ross Fefercom: Right. What that means is, it occurred to us several years ago that when we designed this
product that quite often people who buy homes from us ... are going through several life cycles within the time
that they buy a home from us. For example, an active adult would enjoy the site of the master suite on the
second floor but in later age they may not want to have the particular set of stairs to climb. So we also provide
on the first floor another bedroom that is the size of a master. Not as large as the one on the second floor but it
can function as a guest bedroom ... or a study and in the later years it can also be an additional bedroom that
could become kind of a master bedroom. So we're kind of trying to do two things at once. It's not as large as
the second... and it's something we thought of a long time ago and it's amazing how often our customers will
come in and almost repeat verbatim what I just described to you. Once they figure out that they can do that and
that will work for their future.
Councilman Senn: Do your, do you have home covenants or I assume because you have a homeowners
association, you have some form of covenants and restrictions or whatever. In there do you prohibit rental?
Ross Fefercorn: Yes. And in actuality, in the last 10 years of doing this, the covenants will allow rental in
situations where there is duress, and it's decided upon by the Board of Directors what that economic crisis
would actually be. There's only been a few instances where somebody becomes ill or dies or ... All of our
developments have ... and they are all owner occupied and on a rare occasion... Other than that they're very ... equal.
They're very well maintained. The Board of Directors are very active in the landscaping... there's a big demand
for them...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you.
Brad Johnson: There's two things I'd like to add. I got a couple of calls about materials and couldn't you do it
as a PUD so what ... agree that we will come back the next time through with the final plat and also bring you
basically the unit design and unit set -up with all the materials and things and questions that you may have... and
try to answer all those questions so you feel comfortable... so that would be a step that we would not normally
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agree to in the normal single family. Normally when you're done with a single family subdivision, you're just
done. Here, we're more than happy to come back and show you the final product as part of the approval of the
final plat ... I might also address the fact that I am concerned about the tax structure of the community. This
project will pay $500,000.00 in taxes per year. Because there are very children, $200,000.00 will go to the
school district with no kids. That's becoming, in some communities they're trying to encourage no children
obviously so they don't have to keep expanding. Secondly, in the case of the county, they will pay $200,000.00
to the county. We don't anticipate in this price range we'll have welfare. 50% of it then goes to the county. It
goes to the welfare so I think this is a very positive thing. If it was done as single family, it'd be about a
quarter of a million dollars. Total taxes and a great share of that would have to go to the school. Thank you.
Councilman Berquist: If this is passed this evening and you do come back for final plat, could you also include
a set of the By -laws that would be part of the homeowners association?
Brad Johnson: Well we are ... about anything because we realize that we're standing kind of our feet in the
ground over this single family issue so we're trying to buffer and change and put roads in. We're trying to
anticipate the concerns that the neighborhood may or may not have. It's just that we feel that this is a
contiguous community. We also feel that we have the right to ... We're trying to balance it. I've been here for a
long time. I don't know the last time somebody said they spent $6,000.00 for a home on just landscaping. And
we can pass some pictures out of this neighborhood that's adjoining to us and I don't they're spent $6,000.00 per
unit on landscaping.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. What I'd like to do.
Brad Johnson: It's 1.65 acres of lawn. Just sod.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay, with that. Hold on. What I'd like to do is, for those of you who would like to come up
and make comments. If you would try to limit yourself to at least 5 minutes hopefully. And with that, if you'd
also speak your name and your address.
Kevin Joyce: My name is Kevin Joyce. I live at 2043 Brinker Street, Chanhassen. And I guess I'm the logical
person to start this business off right now ... talk about is past history. Some of my neighbors will follow which
will include a very short presentation and some concepts of why ... zoning change. I'd also like to note because
of the lateness of the hour, we've lost some of our residents. They're not able to be here because of babysitting
and things like that so. I believe you've all received the information from ... and I'll try, as I said, and I know
that my neighbors will try to be concise and focused here so we move this process forward... certain points must
be presented to assure you fully understand our position. I need to start off my initial experience with the city
of Chanhassen. As I mentioned before, I reside on Brinker Street in the Windmill Run, Rottlund development.
When we purchased our home last year and my property abuts the proposed Lake Ann Highlands development.
Prior to my purchase at the end of 1993, my family and I looked at many homesites in the southwest metro
area. We narrowed our decision down to the Chanhassen area and specifically Windmill Run. Researching our
purchase, one of our fundamental criteria was type and dynamics of the neighborhood we'd be raising our family
in. I went to the City Hall the week of December 27th, 1993 and met with a member of the Chanhassen
planning staff. We discussed with the planning staff member in detail the area just south of the property I was
interested in purchasing. He showed us a color coded land use map that showed the Windmill Run property
zoned SFH. There was no zoning shown on the property to the south of Windmill Run property. I asked what
was planned for the property south of Windmill Run. The planning staff member stated that it'd be similar
housing to Windmill Run. Single family detached houses. I asked would they be similar in value to the houses
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
built in Windmill Run. The planning staff member said he couldn't guarantee the value of the homes but the lot
size would be the same, minimum of 15,000 square foot lot size or 3 homes per acre. I have notes to this
particular meeting I'm just mentioning here and I also have a witness who attended this meeting with me. This
witness is not a member of our community. Not a member of our neighborhood and he'd be willing to file an
affidavit if necessary to prove that the discussion took place as I described. As you imagine that when we
received the notice of the proposed twin homes... 1994 after we had purchased our house, we were very upset.
My wife and I wondered if we had misunderstood what the planning staff member had told us. However, in
talking with our fellow neighbors we found that we were told, they were told the same thing by the planning
staff. Single family homes. At our December 7th planning meeting, 6 of my fellow neighbors also addressed
the Planning Commission to relate the very same story. Jeff Stone, Desiree Brown, David Jensen, Amit
Diamond, Sue Reimers and Virginia Bell were all told by the planning staff member that the property south of
our road was planned for single family homes. And to save time, unless you people would personally like to
address the City Council, I'll just direct their comments to the Minutes of the Planning Commission meeting. I
think one point is obviously clear here. My experience was not an isolated incident. With respect to the buyers
from the Windmill Run development were told by a representative of Chanhassen that the acres south of
Windmill Run was planned for single family housing. One member of our neighborhood, Dawn Ronningen has
a map she received from the planning staff in which staff members circled Dr. Conway's property, which we're
discussing here, and noted single family on the map. She has brought that this evening. These people and
myself, made a very important decision... regards to planning of this property. Various members of our
neighborhood attended meetings in the last 3 months with the city planners and developers to try to work out
compromises in the proposed zoning change. At these meetings both the staff and the developer have used the
comprehensive plan as the standard for their discussion. At one of the meetings I attended they mentioned our
neighborhood on a whole was uninformed in regards to the plans Chanhassen has made over the last 4 years
with the comprehensive plan. Once again at my initial meeting while researching the purchase of my house at
the end of 1993, with the member of the planning staff, and the initial meetings my neighbors have had with
this member of planning staff, the comprehensive plan was never mentioned. When myself and my neighbors
asked for information on Dr. Conway's property or any of the adjoining properties we should have been shown
the comprehensive plan, or just a rudimentary explanation of the plan, we all could have been more informed in
our purchase. With inaccessibility to this information, our neighborhood was misinformed. Not uninformed.
This is the real reason we're here tonight folks. I think the evidence, this lack or this misinformation is in this
room. These people here. These people would not have been here, would have no right being here...
surrounding our neighborhood. We all knew Dr. Conway's property was not going to remain a soybean field.
We have no problem with the developer or the quality of the homes he's building. The problem we have is we
purchased into a neighborhood and we were led to believe it was one thing and we found out later our
purchased that it was planned for something entirely different. Well things happen and obviously we have to
move forward. I just want to reiterate that our neighborhood is not against development. We are only
requesting the portion of that development be allocated to what we were promised in the first place, single
family homes. And I'll let my neighbors explain their proposal. There is one last thing I'd like to mention, and
I'll get on. At our first meeting with the Planning Commission, that was November 2nd, being a novice at this
process, I was still getting acclimated to the ways of city government. When Mr. Brad Johnson of Lotus Realty
gave his presentation, he kept of mentioning a word that stuck in my mind. I'd like to quote him from page 51
of November 2nd's Planning meeting. He was trying to explain the quality of the proposed twin homes and I
quote, it's a very personal product. Probably one, the number one product like the one that was designed by,
and then there's a blank there. For very few children type of product. He uses the terminology product in a
couple other instances in the course of the meeting. After the meeting a few of the people from the
neighborhood were outside City Hall discussing the meeting that had just taken place. Mr. Brad Johnson came
up to our meeting and introduced himself and said something to the effect, don't let our emotions get in the way
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' City ouncil Meeting - February 13, 1995
ty 8 ry
or cloud this issue. I know that the word product is commonly used in the jargon of developers and I also
' know that being emotional never benefits any issue or decision, and I can see why Mr. Brad Johnson's point
why get emotional. Why get emotional over a product in the first place? There is one problem. I'm raising my
3 young children in my product. They in turn will be affected by the neighborhood, the proposed neighborhood
adjoining my property. I've made a 30 year investment, the most important financial investment of my life in
' this product. An obligation, by the way, I plan on satisfying because I'm here for good. I'll be here for 30
years... I'm looking forward to many happy memories in my product. So I guess you can see my problem. I
purchased my product and my product's turned into a home. Something we're all emotionally attached to. So I
guess I'm confident that the City Council will give consideration to the product proposed by the Lake Ann
Highlands development but I also hope you give us fair consideration as well, as the homeowners in the
neighborhood that exists there right now. Thank you very much for your time and...
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
Kevin Joyce: Oh, are there any questions?
Mayor Chmiel: Not yet.
' Dawn Ronningen: My name is Dawn Ronningen. I live at 7471 Tulip Court. I was one of the many residents
in the Windmill Run who were told that the property adjoining our's would be developed in a comparable way.
I think you all received a copy of the map. That was in July of '94 and here we are today with Lake Ann
' Highlands now proposing 92 families to live on 25 acres. This creates a 53% increase in density and 17 % ... no
matter how you look at it. They have 92 families on 25 acres. If you combine the lots ... in Windmill Run, you
have 58 families on 30 acres. Just as we've worked hard to research where to buy our homes, we're worked just
as hard in an attempt to facilitate a compromise with the developer. In this spirit of compromise we've met with
' the developer for at least 6 hours. I'd like to thank Kate and Bob for sitting in on those meetings. They
presented some very workable alternate plans and we appreciate that. It has been both the surprising and
disappointing that today the developers have chosen not to pursue any of those opportunities. Given
Chanhassen's commitment to quality and well planned development, this Lake Ann Highlands rezoning request
should be denied. It dwarfs the existing neighborhood and viable alternatives do exist. This should not be an
either or situation. Please deny this request and ask the developer to submit a plan which is an equitable
compromise that will benefit the entire community. Thanks.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
' Virginia Bell: Members of the Council, my name is Virginia Bell. I live at 7476 Crocus Court in Chanhassen
and I'd like to talk about a few reasons, additional reasons why the residents in Windmill Run are opposed to
the R4 rezoning of this area. And I'd like to reiterate what some of my neighbors have said. We are not
' opposed to development but we are opposed to development that is not consistent with the neighborhood that's
already there and it's not in the best interest for the city of Chanhassen. And I think that's what you really
asked... You've being asked to deal with the rezoning and asked to, at your discretion to make a policy decision
on the best zoning option for this land. As you know the comprehensive plan designates this as low density,
' and you have several options within low density including RSF, R4 and PUD. Your position tonight is to... of
those possible options for this area. And we submit to you that at least for the northern half of the proposed
redevelopment, RSF or PUD that permits for single family housing is the best alternative. My neighbor spoke,
' Mr. Joyce spoke about the fact that none of us were shown the comprehensive plan when we came to the city of
Chanhassen to ask about the development. I think however if we'd been given the comprehensive plan, we
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
might have come to the same conclusion that we did in our conversations with the planning department. I put
this in our letter to the Planning Commission which is part of the packet and I hope you've had an opportunity
to read it. I think the point that I made in that letter and what I'll just briefly ... when you look at that
comprehensive plan ... talking about is designated low density, and low density is described in the comprehensive
plan as being predominantly single family. The comprehensive plan goes on to talk about a medium density
designation which it says is a designation that is set apart for townhomes and other... housing. So a person
reading that comment in this plan has an understanding that this low density designation, which is what we're
talking about here, is in fact going to be predominantly single family. And the townhome type properties.
Townhomes and other multi - family housing are going to be unique in terms of the area, which is further down
the Highway 5 than the area that we're talking about. The developers tonight showed you some slides of his
product. I, along with some of my neighbors went out and looked at the product. We toured some of the
subdivisions where these townhomes are and we took some pictures, and I'd like to share them with you tonight
because I think they do give a little bit different impression of what this is going to look like and the feel and
the look of this community. This is at the entrance to one of the developments, and if I'm not mistaken, this is
the development in Woodbury. Or Eagan, excuse me. And you can see that Country Homes markets the
product as a townhome. That's what it's called. That's how it's marketed. That's what we see in all the
literature. This is a typical streetscape that we observed, and I think the thing that jumped out at us as we
looked at these developments is as you go through, the thing that you see are garages. I mean the garages
predominant throughout and I realize that there are different styles. There are different, there's one level and
two levels. We went inside and looked at them, but as you're driving through regardless of which styles have
been chosen, there is an overall sameness. This is again looking at a street and you can see that the styles are
somewhat different. This looks like a walkout on the left but again there still is a sameness to it regardless of
the difference in the styles. This is another streetscape and this is actually similar to a picture that you saw that
the developer showed. Again, what you're seeing, what pops out is the garages. The developer showed us some
pictures of the twin homes, the town homes that you're looking at them and I believe some of the pictures that
he showed are the models that are over in Eden Prairie and that's what you see when there aren't any other
townhomes around and it's just sitting there by itself. You have that sort of New England look that he's talking
about. When you get them all together, I think this is the feel and this is the look that you get. This is a close
up. All of these were taken in Eagan and Woodbury, both of which have less townhomes than what is being
proposed here. I wanted to show you this picture because this particular townhome development, which is in
Woodbury, is a transition, and this is another Country Homes development behind here. Is a transition between
this commercial piece and a large single family development which is behind it. The Eagan development, is a
little bit different in that it is sort of a stand alone townhome development. This one, the townhomes serve as a
buffer and a transition between a very large single family neighborhood and this commercial district. The point
that I wanted to make, most importantly would be that ... this is looks, feels like a townhome development.
When you go out and look at it, that's what you see. That's what it feels like. I also reviewed some, and
looked at with my neighbors some other townhome development in Chanhassen, and thinking particularly about
the way in which the townhome developments fit into the overall community, and what I saw was two things.
First of all, townhomes being used as transition between commercial and single family, like I showed in the
slide. Or townhomes being a separate piece unto themselves with a very significant buffering and transitioning
into some other development, such as a ... road or nature area. That type of thing. But what I did not see is what
is proposed here, which is to have a townhome development abut right up against single family development
and essentially be as large as or larger than our single family homes. I think when you look at this you can get
a sense of what I'm talking about. You know in looking at other developments, that Kate suggested that I look
at in our community and others, what you see is that if you start at Highway 5. A medium density ... or that type
of thing and then a small buffer, something like townhomes and then a larger single family neighborhood so that
the townhomes supplement a single family neighborhood, and the single family neighborhood becomes the piece
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Ci ty Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
around which the townhomes buffer to something else. What we have here and what is being proposed is
totally different. This is a townhome development that will be as large as the single family development that's
already there. Once you get medium density down here, which will undoubtedly be quad or something like this,
you're going to have a huge multi - family townhome development that is literally going to dwarf the single
family homes back there. That is nothing that I have seen in any other development and I don't think based on
' looking at other developments and in thinking about building a sense of community and neighborliness, that that
makes a whole lot of sense. I think if we look at the Minutes of the Planning Commission. The Planning
Commission did turn this down and they turned it down, as I read it, for two reasons. The first being the
' prematurity issue, and I think that's something that still is important to be considering and to be looking at
because this, for two reasons. First of all the Planning Commission articulated concern with the road and if the
road is, a frontage road, if the road is to the south which it has now been determined to be, that the Planning
' Commission wants to see, wanted to review this again with a proposed different road to the south. So I think
that the Planning Commission felt that if the road was to the south, that it did need to be reviewed. If I could
just make a couple more points. I realize my time is up but I just wanted to include a couple of pieces. The
Planning Commission also was very concerned about the amount of twin homes or townhomes that are being
t proposed and the transition to single family. I think the majority of the Planning Commission did express a
great amount of concern and the reason for having a transition for single family in the northern part of this
proposed area. I thank you for your time and in conclusion I think that the Council is in the position of
' balancing a number of interests here in making this important rezoning decision and we would request, and my
neighbor will show a schematic that if Council denies the rezoning request, at least... so thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
Joan Joyce: My name is Joan Joyce. I live at 2043 Brinker Street, and I brought just an overview, a couple
things to show you with regards to what I think makes for an appropriate neighborhood with regard to this city.
' First of all to start out, I would just briefly like to explain that I thought it fair to look up the definition of
neighborhood, and so in the 1994 Webster's ... Dictionary, this is what the definition reads. It is an area or region
that has some specific quality or character in which people live near one another... That is exactly what it reads.
' An area or region that has some specific quality or character in which people live near one another. I don't
believe that this proposal has any specific quality or character in common with what now exists in our Royal
Oaks, Windmill Run development, and for one very big reason and I think the reason is density. I do not think
that this can be in any way considered as a continuation of our neighborhood. We are 58 families living on 30
' acres approximately... I'm not an expert with regard to these figures but from what is being proposed here, this
is approximately 92 families being proposed to live on 25 acres. That's 63% increase in density on a smaller
area of land. 17% smaller area of land. That's about the same sort of character I would think. A couple of the
' other reasons. I don't believe it's of the same character of our neighborhood given the fact that they are twin
homes. They are not single family detached homes. They look alike. Maybe the grades differ in shades but
they look alike. Our houses do not look alike. They may have colors, the same colors 5 or 6 houses from one
' another but they do not look alike and they are not, our houses are not the same size. These, as you saw in the
pictures, repetitive of something that's pretty much the same over and over and over. I would like to show you
an overhead of what we think would be a more logical explanation for this area. First of all I'd like to just
explain the area that now exists. This is Lake Lucy right there. This is the area right now that we're discussing
' and we don't claim to be developers. We don't know that this would even be feasible but we wanted to give
you a concept... and what Windmill Run is already. I think even these one story homes I suspect would be
higher and looking down on a lot of the homes in our neighborhood. It doesn't matter how big the trees are...
' Thank you.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Rick Manning: My name is Rick Manning. I live at 7460 Windmill Run. Or Windmill Drive. I just want to
make a real quick point ... and as I was leaving tonight and kissing my three little kids good -bye, mom told them
where daddy was going, to the City Council meeting and my 5 year old said, daddy so I can ride my bike in the
spring, and that's a real concern of our's. That our kids can ride on our road and safely and I don't believe that's
going to happen with the high density here. That this should have to be connected to a frontage road. I know
for a fact that the amount of traffic that would come through our neighborhood will be unacceptable. For me it
will be unsafe for my children and that's why I moved to Chanhassen. If that happens, I'm afraid I'm going to
have to move out because of that. I want a place where my kids can play safely...
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Can I ask you a question? Who would you see using that road other than residents
of your neighborhood?
Rick Manning: Any of these people. You know we brought this up at the Planning Commission meeting but if
you know, and I'm sure you all do know about the development that's taking place in this entire area, that
intersection of Highway 5 and Galpin. The school, the Centex development... and the higher density areas on
that intersection. The ones ... down to Galpin. You can imagine the traffic that's going to come into that
intersection. Well naturally, I know for a fact that ... I know it's going to be backed up. It's going to be difficult
to get either into here. What I see as happening, people are going to cut through down to this frontage road as
a way to avoid this intersection ... through Windmill Run off of Galpin up here farther, because this is going to
be backed up.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Because of stacking distance.
Rick Manning: Right.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I can see your point.
Rick Manning: So this is a nice way to avoid that intersection. All the traffic sits down at the frontage road
and goes down to the traffic light down by Target. So I'm also concerned about the actual builder that will be
doing this project because the way I understand it from previous meetings, and correct me if I'm wrong, this is,
there's no contract for who's actually doing the building of this entire project and I may be wrong with that as
well.
Brad Johnson: You're wrong.
Rick Manning: Am I wrong?
Resident: You did sign a contract?
Brad Johnson: An agreement.
Rick Manning: An agreement or a contract. Okay, I don't know if that's sufficient for you or not but it's been
an awful long presentation and a lot of discussion as to what this will look like but I'd be real concerned as to
whether this is actually what it's going to look like and whether or not that will be builder for this project... so
thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Susan Reimers: I'm Susan Reimers and I reside at 7497 Crocus Court and ... at your Planning Commission
' meeting. Mine were the ones that were all fuzzy because I shook ... so bear with me. Just a couple of points
here is that earlier this evening you've spent 2 years discussing garbage hauling. We need to be a little more
conscientious about how long we take to ... A couple of other things that I think were brought up by you... That
we have not waited, as earlier was indicated, until after a decision was made to express our concerns. In the
previous issue of the haulers, they have extended ... to negotiate. I'm not sure that that was the case but we have
been willing to negotiate... Thank you.
' Amit Diamond: Hi. My name is Amit Diamond. I live at 2117 Brinker Street. I'm not too good ... but I'm
trying. I moved here from New Jersey and...I didn't even know what Chanhassen looked like or where is it or
where Hopkins is or whatever. So what I did, I hired a real estate agent who knows the area better than me and
' ask him, you find me a house and neighborhood. I've got a wife and 3 kids. Find me a good place to live. So
we started touring a lot of the neighborhoods and we got to Eden Prairie and then we're going to the junction of
Dell Road where he says, or ... see this is where you don't want to live, and the reason you don't want to live here
is because you have no transition of what they call from single family homes to the townhomes ... We came up to
Chanhassen and I asked him to call the city, which he did and he ... and he said, well I called the city planners
and ... single family detached, and he referred to detached. Not attached. Detached of—single family housing
with 1 dog to 1 family ... So we decided to buy and obviously like everybody else, we put ... and they came back
' to us and asked us why would you cooperate with the developer... and we made suggestions. Any suggestions
that you have heard today from the builder or from the developer, we haven't suggest. We haven't suggested
higher berms. We haven't suggested trees... We have suggested to make appropriate transition to make one or
two rows of single family homes, and that's it. The rest we understand that it's going to develop. We
understand that they're going to be twin homes. We don't want... Funny thing is, every address that he made
didn't come up with the issue of single family homes—wanted to see and I'll rephrase it again and again and
again, appropriate transition. There isn't any appropriate transition... that's number one. Number two, I have no
' idea what this builder is talking about. What do you call it, New England style living. I came from there and
this certainly ain't one of them. I don't know what else to tell you. We worked our best... We would like to
invest ... but making the proper transition. That's what the Planning Commission, I think that's the right, or the
way public government should be conducted is that if the Planning Commission wanted to see that, I think you
guys should do that too, and it should go back to the Planning Commission with the appropriate... thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Okay. With that, I think what we'll do is bring it back to Council for the time
' being. As I sit here and the hour is fleeting and I think it's going to be pretty hard for the Council maybe to
come up with a conclusion this evening. I see everybody's eyes are at least still open. There have been several
questions that have been asked, and I think a few of those have to have those answers addressed. What I would
' like to suggest is that we table this, if it's in agreement with the applicant, for those two weeks and even though
there's that time frame and if they're acceptable to that time frame, it shouldn't present any given problem. I'll
throw it open to Council. At least that's my position.
' Councilman Berquist: I didn't realize that that necessarily was an option. Did I, well first of all I wanted to say
something. It seems as if that plan in the Windmill Run folks' mind is cast in stone, and that is simply a
preliminary plat. That is not actually reflective of any footprint of any setbacks of anything. It is simply a
drawing that indicates what could go there. So I know you say it doesn't matter but you've already eluded to it.
Joan eluded to the distance between the homes and that's commensurate with the distance from her home. Well
yes it does matter. It's not accurate. Did I hear Mr. Fefercorn indicate that he had not been to a meeting in
' Chanhassen prior to this? Is this your first time out here?
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Ross Fefercorn: No. I presented this...
Councilman Berquist: Okay. Can we talk about, I suppose I should address your wanting to table the issue
Mayor Chmiel: Well, I think what we'll do is ask the specific questions if Council desires.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well, I mean I've got to get up at 5:30 like the rest of us. However, we've
dragged everyone out here and made them sit through it. I'd just as soon complete our discussion.
Mayor Chmiel: Mike.
Councilman Mason: I've got a bunch of stuff written down. I'm ready to go but if there are lots of, I mean if
there are questions that can't be answered tonight, there's no reason going through a half hour discussion and
then tabling it 20 minutes later either. I guess I'm not sure what the questions are. I don't have a whole lot of
questions. I've got a bunch I want to say but.
Mayor Chmiel: I guess from the questions that were brought up by the adjacent property owners. Some of
those, I noticed Bob was writing those down.
Kate Aanenson: I didn't...
Mayor Chmiel: Well I'd still like, if you were just taking notes, there were some notes there of some of the
things that were brought up accordingly.
Kate Aanenson: We can talk about densities in the whole area. We can talk about the reason why the frontage
road went...
Mayor Chmiel: What I'm saying Kate is it's getting late in the evening and I think decisions are going to be
just a little difficult. Mark.
Councilman Senn: I've got my questions. I can do it either way. I guess I agree somewhat on the hour. I'm
not sure the best decisions are made this time of night. I guess from my standpoint, I have a number of
questions but if we are going to adjourn this or table this, I think there's one more thing I would definitely like
to hear before we do table it, and I keep hearing these reoccurring theme coming back to either misinformation
or not adequately defined information. I'd just kind of like to really hear staffs response on that to put that in
perspective with what I'm hearing from the neighbors, etc. I'd kind of like to hear the middle. The ones stuck
in the middle too, at this point because I think that would help at least, even if we are going to put off a
decision, at least put it in perspective so we can go forward and answer other questions.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I would make that motion to table. If there's a second.
Councilman Berquist: I won't be here in two weeks, if that makes a difference.
Peter Beck: Mayor, members of the Council. As I indicated earlier, we've been at this project for quite a long
time and we don't want to rush the Council into premature judgment either. We would ... I also cannot be here in
two weeks ... so I will be in Elk River in 2 weeks. If it were to be continued, we would envision continuing it 3
or 4 weeks to the next... And perhaps if we did that, it might be helpful to all of us if for those Councilmembers
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' City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
who have questions, if they can ... give them to us and we can provide them at the next meeting, be prepared to
' address some ... and maybe even given a written response ... if we can look at them in advance...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. That would be March 13th.
Susan Reimers: Could I just say one more thing?
Mayor Chmiel: If you could just.
' Susan Reimers: ...we've been sitting here for quite a while and...
' Mayor Chmiel: Earlier on the agenda also.
Susan Reimers: Yes, definitely... makes our 4 or 5 hour sit worth it.
Don Ashworth: This would appear as an unfinished business item. So I mean tonight it came under new
business. It was last. Now it should, I won't say that it will be first but it will be closer to 7:30 and kind of in
defense of the Mayor's position. The Council typically likes to state each of their own positions and why and
sometimes that gets into 15 -20 minutes each. And then kind of a final decision.
Councilman Berquist: Prior to this meeting tonight I had done a lot of writing as to what I would like to be
' able to say if we come to that point. Insofar as we didn't, I do want to read at least the last paragraph of an
alternate motion that I was prepared to make. I had a couple of different things but the one I think that applies
in this case is that I am in favor of this project going forward with the stipulation that prior to final plat
Windmill Run association, the builder and city staff meet to arrange a set of criteria aimed at achieving a project
that adds to the existing neighborhood. If a consensus is unable to be achieved, then the Council will have to
decide on the criteria so the project can move forward. Now given that and given the next number of weeks, I
certainly hope that there's work that can be done towards that end. The number of letters that I've gotten, that
we've all gotten from the folks that adjoin this property are many and very intelligently written and I'm sure the
builder is of the same mind. The builder does not want a neighborhood adjoining his property that is
acrimonious and I suspect that after tonight there's hopefully some room for compromise. That's it.
' Amit Diamond: I'd like to say that most of us do feel that we ... and they have been rejected by the builder
completely...
' Councilman Berquist: Perhaps nothing will change and we'll be in this position in 4 weeks.
Amit Diamond: I hope not.
' Councilman Berquist: I hope not too.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay.
Councilman Senn: Do you have alternate plans?
' Kate Aanenson: Sure. Yeah. There are other zoning...
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Councilman Senn: Other than what's here, there are no other alternatives.
Kate Aanenson: No. I guess that's why we were waiting to get some direction or questions from you to go
back through the history of comp plan. The road location and this is the project they want to pursue. I'm not
sure what our role is in it at this point. They've got one specific, they'd like to see single family and the
applicant wants to see something else. ...we'll go through the different zoning options. You can do single
family detached in the R4 zone also. I mean we laid all those out. There are other zoning options.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, right. Okay. We still have a motion to table this to March 13th. To hopefully come
back with some kind of a solution or recommendation. If I don't get a second, then we can go through the
process...
Councilman Berquist: Well I'll second the motion.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any other discussion with it?
Councilman Senn: Yeah I again, I feel strongly. I'd really like to hear what Kate has to say as it relates to the
definition problems here in terms of single family housing versus single family attached, detached information
contained here, there or sources that could have or could not have created confusion.
Mayor Chmiel: Maybe that, you could have conversations with her in regard to that to find out those specifics
and then we can go accordingly.
Councilman Senn: Oh, I can do that but I think it's just going to need to be repeated at the meeting because I
think there's a lot of people here who have the same question. I think it's an issue we're going to have to deal
with. And if we're going to try and get the issues on the table and expect them to go out and do a compromise
or maybe come back here and try to reach a decision, I think that's an important element we're missing with that
analysis.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay.
Susan Reimers: ...there was some feedback given to me ... and that person indicated that it was best not to
discuss it with you at that point and we'll wait for further information to be received. Are we to presume that
we are not to be in contact with council persons at this point between now and March 13th?
Mayor Chmiel: You can always contact us.
Susan Reimers: We can always contact you?
Mayor Chmiel: You bet.
Susan Reimers: And is there, forgive me. Is there any kind of a precedent set as to returning phone calls in the
time period between Council. We're in a service world now. We have to return phone calls to everybody
within a set period of time. Is there a Council quota in returning phone calls ?...
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'll tell you what the difficulty is with that, and I am as guilty as anyone.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Councilman Senn: But when you're gone for the weekend, that's a real problem. People have a habit of calling
us on Friday you know because the meetings coming up Monday night and unfortunately if we're out of town,
there's nothing we can do about it.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: And the problem is, yeah. We get our Council packets Thursday evening. We
start reading them, I start reading them on my lunch hour on Friday and you spend ... it becomes, yeah. I mean
you saw what our agenda was like. It becomes a real chore to get through them and I mean multiple, multiple
hours and I know from my personal experience, I want to read the packet entirely before I call someone just so
I can talk to them on an intelligent basis.
Susan Reimers: So when we call, leave your name and what issue you're...
Councilman Senn: And you'll always get a call back. It's just a matter of when you call...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I'd like to just bring it back to Council and I'd like to call the question in regards to the
motion with the second.
Mayor Chmiel moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to table action on the Rezoning of 49.9 acres of property
from A2 to R4 for Lake Ann Highlands until March 13, 1995. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING CONDEMNATION OF PARKLAND AREA IN THE HEREUGE
DEVELOPMENT COMPANYS PROPOSED CREEKSIDE SUBDIVISION.
Mayor Chmiel: Item 12 shouldn't take too long, hopefully.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Oh, if we're going to.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, you want to just.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I want to go home.
Mayor Chmiel: You're tired and you want to go to bed.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yeah. Because I think we need some discussion on the next item.
Mayor Chmiel: Is there a time restriction as far as your need for this?
Don Ashworth: 5 working days...
Kate Aanenson: He's been here all night.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, we'll do that. Before we get to your's Todd, I'd like to just make one quick
' announcement on 3(h) that I decided to pull. I got my answer on it so I don't have to pull it. I'd like to make
that motion to accept item 3(h).
I Councilwoman Dockendorf: Second.
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City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
Mayor Chmiel: All those in favor say aye.
Councilman Senn: What are you doing?
Mayor Chmiel: I just moved your's. No.
Councilman Senn: I'll vote no then. I'm sorry. I don't know what I'm voting on.
Mayor Chmiel: I moved item 3(h) instead.
Councilman Senn: Why? What's the hurry on 3(h)?
Mayor Chmiel: Because I got my answer.
Councilman Senn: I had a question too.
Councilman Berquist: He had asked for it to be pulled. I asked for it to be pulled.
Mayor Chmiel: Oh did you? I will withdraw. We'll hold onto it then. Is there any action required for... Okay,
good. Shall we just hit item 12. Todd, hit it.
Todd Hoffman: ...authorized the condemnation of parkland area in the Heritage Development Company's
proposed Creekside Addition. As the Council is aware, you approved the preliminary plat of that subdivision on
January 9th. You required... Item 9a required that an area of land, specifically 2.62 acres, plus or minus, on the
southern end of the plat be acquired for park ... The City Attorney's office has informed me...
Councilman Berquist: Has Heritage made a counter offer? You elude to a reasonable counter offer.
Todd Hoffman: They've made a counter offer in the form of an explanation that they would like to be paid the
money in which they could make on the property...
Councilman Senn: Well I think we all understood last meeting that what we were doing was a, what we're
approving is them going ahead and meeting the requirements of what's there for dedication of open space or
whatever and beyond that take the woods area. Separate it and we're going to go to condemnation because it
was real obvious we weren't even in the same ballpark. Is there something different that we're dealing with
now?
Todd Hoffman: No, there is not. We're going forward with the condemnation process...
Councilman Senn: Is there something different in your mind?
John Dobbs: My name is John Dobbs, Heritage Development. I'll make this really fast. I guess for me still the
question I've got is just the clarify in the terms of the resolution and ... It was our understanding...
Councilman Senn: What I tried to do in my motion, and if anybody looks at it a different way, please let me
know but what I tried to do with the motion was just purely separate the issue which was here. You know, plat
your project. Dedicate what needs to be dedicated to meet the requirements of the dedication, and take that
M .
City Council Meeting - February 13, 1995
wooded area and leave it in some type of a manner that you're not planning on it because we're going to start
condemnation. Now I think...
John Dobbs: ...our thoughts, after talking about it, we'd like to have that really stated... His assumption out of
his rough estimate was that we did not now have, after we took this area of the condemnation, we did not now
have enough land to satisfy our requirements for a subdivision of 44 lots, which is... That has since been
clarified. That's where I think the ... number popped out in Roger's letter. I'm sorry, my brain has left me. ...this
forward and doing this plat and I'm just trying to get some clarification as to what it actually does. What it's
supposed to be before I get to final plat.
Councilman Senn: Do you have that?
Roger Knutson: I'm not sure I do, I'm sorry. I want to be very clear, because I don't know why this is an
issue but it appears to be. The only thing you authorize tonight is the condemnation resolution which says you
can condemn this property of 2.35 acres. That's the official act tonight. Clarification wise, we're taking the 30
feet corridor unless we're not entitled to take much and you have to narrow it down a little bit for park
dedication.
Councilman Senn: Correct. That's my understanding.
Mayor Chmiel: Everybody's in the same ballpark? Is there a motion?
Resolution #95 -27: Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the resolution
authorizing condemnation of propetty interests for park purposes from Heritage Development Company be
approved as drafted. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Senn seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the
motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 12:45 am.
Submitted by Don Ashworth
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
67
1
' PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
' JANUARY 24, 1995
Chairman Andrews called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Andrews, Jan Lash, Jane Meger, Ron Roeser, Jim Manders,
' Dave Huffman, and Fred Berg
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director; Jerry Ruegemer,
Recreation Supervisor; and Dawn Lemme, Recreation Supervisor
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Berg moved, Lash seconded to approve the Minutes of the
' Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated December 13, 1994 as presented. All voted
in favor and the motion carried.
' VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
Chuck Rienstra: I'm Chuck Reinstra. I know a few of you. I represent Tonka United Soccer
' and I've explained at past meetings and to other people that we're in dire need of land and
expansion of our program. We ... directly from Chanhassen. What we have in mind for the
city of Chanhassen, involving children, is an expansion at the Minnetonka Middle School.
' We've been endowed with a benefactor that has offered us a large sum of money on certain
stipulations. And the stipulations are a matching grant. Talking to some of the people on the
Board and stuff, I understand... money from the city of Chanhassen. Now being this is a
' public property, no individual ownership or anything, this is one of the concerns of our
benefactor. That this is more of a public spirited, not for one individual group. So what I'd
like to do is basically put it ... that there's a large amount of money out there to put to active
' use and I'd like to find out what your stipulations are basically. What you want from us and
what we want from you people.
' Andrews: Why don't you tell us more about what the plans are for.
Chuck Rienstra: Preferably now, Minnetonka Middle School is used for soccer. The
' Minnetonka East School is used as a baseball facility. That's how the district has set up. We
want to take and expand that. We want to basically add one, possibly two fields up there.
We want to irrigate the property so the fields don't have to be rotated. Soccer is a fairly
' rough sport on the fields because we play it year round. As soon as the snow's gone, we're
out trampling up on the grass out there and we run right to the middle of October. If we can
irrigate the property up there, we can use it year round and won't have to rotate. Tonka
United Soccer presently has about 1,500 children in the program. It's a program that we
provide in the city ... park and rec program traditionally has stayed away from the summer
' traveling soccer and instructional type soccer. We range in age from basically 5 years old in
the instructional all the way up to 19 years old. We're a strictly voluntary organization. We
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
have one paid employee, who is our Director of Coaches. Our monies are collected by fees
from the children, i.e. the families and fund raisers, corporate sponsors and donations. That's
basically it.
Lash: What kind of matching funds are you looking for Chuck:
Chuck Rienstra: I can offer $15,000.00. My benefactor is coming out with up to $15,000.00
of matching funds. Now at this time we don't believe it will take that money to do that.
What he's saying is he'll go that much. If it's less to do it, then he'll pay the lesser amount
but that's the maximum amount.
Andrews: ...some questions to get more information here for everybody. There was
discussion that the irrigation project was going to be done, to look at cooperative efforts to
reduce costs. I know the figures that I heard at the Board meeting, I was stunned at the costs
that were, being that they were so low. So I know Tonka United, I guess I should state to the
Board. I'm not on the Tonka United Board but I'm active in the group so I have a vested
interest in this. But I think many of us are involved with youth activities but, again to say
that they're looking to expand the field spaces and put irrigation in and I think the cost figure
that I heard was less than $5,000.00 if I remember correctly.
Chuck Rienstra: Yeah, for the basic grading and getting ready to drop sod. We were talking
$4,400.00 - $5,000.00 for the land ready. You're talking about another $2,000.00 to $3,000.00
for sod. Depending upon how we can work on a volunteer basis and what... irrigation system
will be put in basically for soccer ... to keep the money down.
Huffman: I apologize. I'm going to have to back. I don't know what we're talking about
here. What are you asking for? I'm going to apologize for this. I'm not up to speed. I mean
irrigation and other things but what are.
Chuck Rienstra: Okay, we're asking for some matching funds. It's come to our attention that
Chanhassen's offered matching funds for public, specifically public property that's open to the
public and what I'm saying, that's what we're asking for. And this is not, it's at the middle
school which is in Chanhassen on TH 7 and TH 41. It's open to all kids. I get a lot of grief
because we're Tonka United but we're not. Approximately a third of our kids live directly in
Chanhassen. I live in Chanhassen. My daughter participates. On my block there's 6 kids
in...
Huffman: I'm not trying to be smart or anything. I'm just, I'm slow so, you had to call me to
earth meeting so I'm just very slow.
2
I Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Chuck Rienstra: But we have permission from the School District. There is a football field.
' The football field's going to be...
Lash: If I do a quick tally as you were doing that, I come up with around $8,000.00. Are
you looking for $4,000.00 from us and $4,000.00 from your benefactor?
Chuck Rienstra: Well yeah, we're taking basics right here is what we're doing. We're just
' taking real basics. We have to put a catch net across one end. I haven't got bids on that. I
have no idea what that runs or what they cost. The one end of the property drops off
extremely sharp. We have... On the north side of the property there's a road that runs parallel
with the end of our field. We'd like a catch net on that end too. Not that it's a heavily traffic
but for insurance purposes. They're just starting to come up with this idea that a catch net on
that too. That would stop kids from running out and catching balls and stuff and it...
Roeser: This reminds me. Didn't we about a year and a half ago, a year ago have some
people come from the traveling volleyball thing and want some support from us. Basically
' something like this. Or at least schedule.
' Lash: They wanted us to sponsor them...
Roeser: Yeah, yeah. But not something that's involved with the Park and Rec Department
' necessarily.
Chuck Rienstra: This is, I don't know how to explain this. It's a big undertaking and as a
private sports group, and the way monies are so tight, we feel that if we can come up with
some of it, we're having ... and if we can do this and it's basically no burden on the school
district and everybody knows, and I don't care if it's Chanhassen, Chaska, or Minnetonka or
' Victoria, schools have a problem right now with money. We're doing this. We're going to
improve the school's field and improve it for the children and we're doing this basically
without the school's money. The school's happy, the school's just overjoyed. We've given
' 1,500 hours this fall just to reseed, to aerate and put the, where they did not have the money
to do this. We dropped them $1,500.00. They have to go 3 years before they can do that.
Now they can do it twice because of the allotted money in the 3 year increment. We just
' happened to come in on top of it. This is the best we can basically do.
Berg: Have you talked to Minnetonka?
Chuck Rienstra: To who?
Berg: To the Park and Rec in Minnetonka.
' 3
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Chuck Rienstra: Right now the Park and Rec is in the process of buying Bennett Field on
TH 101 and their priority is with that right now. If they buy Bennett, they have to include
the drainage, etc. They have to dig trenches and stuff, a lift station and they plan to put two
soccer fields in behind... We basically, we run 35 traveling teams which includes an adult
league from Chanhassen and two Chanhassen ... on our fields this past summer. Chanhassen -
Chaska sponsored a Western Division Girls Playoff on our field ... so it's not that we're not...
We're open. We're doing everything we can to help each other. I have a real worry that I get
a lot of feedback that is specifically for Tonka United. It's not for Chanhassen - Chaska. It's
for Tonka United.
Huffman: Would you come February the 7th and tell people how short of fields we are and
what a great idea a bond referendum would be like?
Chuck Rienstra: ...and I'll be there.
Andrews: He's been invited.
Lash: I think this is something that would require a motion obviously. You're talking about
in this year, correct? So which would require a budget amendment from us, which means
serious consideration and before I would even be willing to enter into that kind of a thought
process, I would want to see a more detailed proposal.
Chuck Rienstra: ...come out with exact figures and stuff. All of this is starting to fall in
place within the last two days. I had my commitments to my part of the money last night at
5 minutes after 10:00, when my commitment came through. Before we were talking about
$2,000.00 to $3,000.00 maybe. Now we're talking 15 on our part which would be a
tremendous windfall for us.
Lash: And this person will only commit the money to you if it's matched from some other?
Chuck Rienstra: Yeah, that's basically it. He'll match funds up to $15,000.00
Manders: What's the chances of some of the other entities that are involved in Tonka Soccer
to be contributors? I
Chuck Rienstra: According to his wishes and stuff, he wants soccer. He's a fan of soccer.
He's got children, grandchildren in the program. And his specific wishes are to improve it for I
soccer.
I Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Manders: But I mean what I'm getting at is something beyond Chanhassen. Who else is
involved in this usage of those facilities for soccer? Minnetonka obviously.
Chuck Rienstra: Minnetonka. We have children in our program from Shorewood,
' Greenwood. As far away as Mound. We have kids coming all the way from Golden Valley
that play in our division. We have children from Hopkins, Wayzata.
' Manders: I guess what I foresee is the statement that a third of the kids are from Chanhassen
so it makes pretty easy sense to say, well we'll contribute a third. So you figure out the other
two thirds.
' Chuck Rienstra: I'm quoting figures off, I can show you teams that are made almost
specifically of children from Chanhassen.
' Manders: And that would be to your advantage.
' Chuck Rienstra: And I can show you teams that are specifically made of kids strictly from...
so we encompass a large, large area. And we're getting to the point now where certain
municipalities are picking... which just we can't afford, we just can't do that...
Berg: It would help me a lot in my decision process if I could have some exact numbers of
' kids and where they're from.
Chuck Rienstra: I can do that. I can give you a complete listing of kids. But I don't want to
' get into, it's really hard to get into that border situation. We have a lot of animosity... We
want to take instructional kids where you put 60% of them are from Chanhassen...
' Andrews: They both use the fields so.
Chuck Rienstra: Yeah, instructional kids don't ... We're not looking at the present. We're
' looking at the kids down the line where 5 years from now you see Chanhassen- Chaska ranked
as a contender for the State Title in soccer. Some of those kids would come up in our
program.
' Berg: Do you envision the day where you won't be able to include Chanhassen kids because
Tonka gets too big?
' Chuck Rienstra: No. Our By -laws are written that basically it's first come, first serve. If we
have a problem with late registration and stuff, it's the kids that are scheduled for the
' Minnetonka School District get priority. My children go to Minnetonka School... I live in
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Carver County and ... so it's, we talked about this at our last Board meeting. We don't want to
get to that point where we have to exclude anybody. If we don't have a Division I or
Division II team, we can add someplace where everybody can play. We have not turned
away anybody. That's why we've got people from Golden Valley coming to us to play
soccer. We have not turned away anybody. We have people from St. Louis Park, Hopkins.
It's open ... because there's no place for them to play.
Andrews: Maybe we've got to cut this one off.
Roeser: But if you're the city soccer leagues and things for kids...
Andrews: However they aren't real open to people in the Minnetonka School District.
Hoffman: ...past philosophy that the Commission has held, the Commission has had no
problem investing in school, on school property. We've made significant investments in the
Chan Elementary property. We're in a cooperative agreement with the park... This would be
the other school campus... Prior to making joint contributions outside the youth athletic...
Chuck Rienstra: The advantage we have here is the money is there. And I truly believe that
we're going to lose something and Chanhassen's going to lose something if we don't invest in
that. I mean whether it's a small amount of that or it's the whole thing. If we take advantage
of that, I think Chanhassen, I think we can really do something with this. We're losing a
great opportunity if we don't take advantage of it. Now whether it's for the school up there or
for the school here, if somebody else comes with that money, you should do that. I mean we
all know that times...
Lash: I would move that we move this forward to the next available agenda after Chuck has
defined his proposal into a dollar figure for us.
Andrews: That's one month. Does that give you time?
Chuck Rienstra: Yes...
Andrews: Okay, is there a second for that?
Meger: Second.
Lash moved, Meger seconded to put the Visitor Presentation regarding the Tonka United
Soccer proposal to the next available agenda. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
R
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Andrews: Okay. Any other visitor presentations?
ORGANIZATIONAL ITEMS:
A. ELECTION OF CHAIRPERSON AND VICE CHAIRPERSON.
Manders: Discussion?
Andrews: Discussion, please. Yeah.
Huffman: Okay, I'll bite. I'm the new individual on this group. Fred, Jan, explain to me
what we need to do at this moment, would you please.
Lash: We need to entertain, volunteer a nomination type system. We're pretty informal here.
Huffman: We're user friendly.
Lash: We're user friendly Rules of Order. So as to people who are interested in taking on
the position such as Chairperson or Vice Chairperson and we go from there to nominations
and then we take a vote.
Huffman: And in the past have you asked people or is it just felt that the last person did
such an outstanding job.
Berg: Well we've asked the people who have been doing it, if they're interested in continuing
in that position.
Huffman: Okay. Again, I don't know. So Mr. Andrews?
Andrews: I'm willing. If somebody else is dying to do it, I mean that's fine too.
Lash: Anyone dying.
Berg: Ms. Lash?
Lash: I'm not dying to do it. I'm willing to do it. I'm not dying to do it. I think I said that
last year and look at where I got.
Berg: I move that we accept Jim Andrews as Chairperson and Jan Lash as Vice Chairperson
for 1995.
7
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Roeser: Second that.
Berg moved, Roeser seconded to appoint Tim Andrews as Chairpeison and Jan Lash as Vice
Chairperson for the Park and Recreation Commission for 1995. All voted in favor and the
motion carved.
B. ADOPT RULES OF ORDER
Andrews: There is a note in this, on page 1 of the packet that we should, that the City
Attorney recommended a change to Scott Foresmen's Roberts Rules of Order Newly Revised,
which is user friendly. What that means I have no idea. So is there a motion to accept that
recommendation from the City Attorney?
Huffman: I make a motion that we adopt the Rules of Order of Scott Foresmen's Roberts
Rules of Order Newly Revised, which is user friendly.
Lash: Second.
Andrews: Any discussion?
Lash: Is this available and is it something we need to know or can we just continue in our
old.
Hoffman: You'll have a desk copy for your reference. It's user friendly in that if you come
across a question, it has a very nice index that the other one did not have.
Huffman moved, Lash seconded that the Pai1r and Recreation Commission adopt Scott
Foresmen's Roberts Rules of Order Newly Revised. All voted in favor and the motion
carved.
C. 1994 ATTENDANCE RECORD.
Andrews: Item c is informational. Is there any comments on that?
D. 1995 MEETING DATES AND TIME:
Andrews: I think the only exception date is December 12th, and you've noted that already
Todd. Any comments on the schedule? Is there a motion to approve the schedule?
Berg: So moved.
8
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
r�.
I
Andrews: Is there a second?
Roeser: Second.
Berg moved, Roeser seconded to approve the 1995 Meeting Dates as presented. All voted in
favor and the motion carried.
Andrews: Item E is Schedule of Attendance at the City Council meetings.
Huffman: Whoa. Can we go back just a quick moment? There's a note down here. Meeting
time, 7:30 p.m. You've got the Planning Commission moved to 7:00. I've noticed that
sometimes in the evening it's easier to get out early. Do we want to consider starting early or
is that something that's not worth talking about?
Andrews: Would you like to make a motion on that and then we can discuss it?
Lash: Why don't you discuss first?
Andrews: Might as well make it as a motion. That way you can either do something or not.
Huffman: I make a motion that we start our meetings at 7:00 as opposed to 7:30.
Roeser: Second.
Andrews: Any discussion on that? Does 7:00 present a problem for a starting time for any
person?
Lash: Sometimes it's tough.
Huffman: It is hectic. I mean I know that and I understand that but it also gets us out of
here at a reasonable hour.
Lash: I guess the only time that I, and I have no idea what my schedule's going to be like
next year but if I have classes on Tuesday nights, to get here by 7:30, I come straight from
St. Paul and I just barely make it. But I have no idea what my schedule will be for Tuesday
so I'm not going to stand in everybody's way.
Huffman: Can't we change that at some point? Can we come back and talk about that at
some point? If it doesn't coincide with your class.
0
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Lash: Well I can always show up late too.
Huffman: Well what I'm saying, can we change it back. If we decide to change it earlier,
can we change it back? If you know your schedule next fall.
Andrews: I agree with that. I guess I would have a question, would we be within our rights
to publish an intended adjournment time at the same time?
Manders: Well that would be my point, is that regardless of when we start, we're going to
end up at 11:00 or whatever it is and you get tired at that point and then you're done.
Lash: Well I think they do publish ... I think for the Planning Commission, what do they have
for their adjournment time?
Hoffman: The Planning Commission I believe is 10:30. The City Council is 11:00.
Lash: So we would need to have something in there saying.
Andrews: 10:00.
Roeser: Like 10:00.
Lash: You said they did start at 7:00? So they're going from 7:00 to 10:30.
Huffman: I'd like to make a motion.
Andrews: You want to amend your motion.
Huffman: Okay, I'd like to amend my motion to start at 7:00 but also to have an ending time
at 10:00 p.m.
Andrews: Is that agreeable to the second there?
Huffman: Time compression is a wonderful thing in the world of management today.
Roeser: I'll second that.
Andrews: Okay. Any discussion of that?
Lash: I don't know. I think I have a problem with that.
10
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Andrews: We can always extend our time with a motion at the meeting.
Lash: We can? Okay. I do not want to have a whole room full of people here on some
topic and say, sorry. It's 10:00. It's time to go home. We'll continue this to a month.
Andrews: But that will give us the ability to move things along too.
Huffman: Absolutely. Get to the point. We've got to go.
Andrews: Any more discussion?
Huffman moved, Roeser seconded to amend the meeting times for the Pailk and Recreation
Commission meetings to begin at 7:00 p.m. and end at 10:00 p.m. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
Andrews: Okay, item 2.
Meger: Move back up to number 1. Just in case, on the schedule of attendance at the City
Council.
Andrews: Oh, pardon me. I'm sorry. Skipped by that. I'm sorry. Take a quick look at item
1(e). Scheduled attendance. City Council. There are some dates that were assigned by Todd
I think. Are any of those dates that any of us know we have a problem with?
Meger: I will not be here on October 9th.
Roeser: How do you know that already?
Meger: It's one vacation that has been planned.
Huffman: I'll be more than happy to trade with you if that helps. I've got the 25th.
Hoffman: Of October?
Huffman: September.
Andrews: And February 13th, let's see. Okay.
Manders: So the plan there is that you notify us?
11
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Andrews: What we've done in the past is, just when a conflict comes up, call Todd and we'll
get it worked out.
Huffman: I won't be there for the January 23rd meeting. Well, how about if I just let you
know tonight that I won't be there last night.
LAND SUBDIVISION PROPOSAL: PRELIMINARY PLAT OF 37+ ACRES OF
PROPERTY ZONED RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY INTO 43 TO 53 LOTS LOCATED
NORTH OF KING ROAD AND WEST OF MINNEWASHTA PARKWAY, HARSTAD
COMPANIES.
Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item.
Andrews: Mr. Birch, if you'd like to come address the commission.
John Birch: My name is John Birch. It gets pronounced a number of ways because it's got
the h on the end. First of all I have to say that I'm from ... and Associates. We are the
company that has done preliminary plat. This is per Mr. Harstad's wants and wishes.
Apparently he has done some marketing strategies and found out that the perceived park area
that the city wants is some of the highest valued land because of the close proximity to the
lake and they decided that that's what they would prefer to do is build single family
residences in here and if the city would want more park, the idea would be to cut these lots
off in this area here. Taking just 4 single family lots and then the 10 acres of park which
would be back in this area. That's what Mr. Harstad has asked me to convey to you. He
never showed up with his plan. Apparently he has talked to someone about it. I don't know
if it was Todd or whoever it was at the city but he felt that the 10 acres of park in that area
would be more equitable for him because of the costs involved in building streets that he
would incur. In essence what would happen is, in this plan when the park is here, he would
have to incur a lot of cost to build a road to this point in here with zero value. In other
words, he gets no value back on it. All his costs are involved and he would have to offset all
of this road cost with the exception of what the city picks up, with the rest of the lots, it
becomes a real high premium on those lots.
Andrews: Do you know what it costs per foot to build a roadway like that?
John Birch: I can give you a rough idea. It's right around $250.00 a running foot.
Andrews: And how many feet are we looking at along the proposed park along the lake?
12
I Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
John Birch: I'd have to guess. I don't remember exactly what that was. I think, it's probably
' about 1,800 to 2,000 feet I believe.
Andrews: So that works out to be about, does anybody have a calculator with them here.
Hoffman: $800.00 to $1,000.00.
' John Birch: So you have to get to this point over here which is zero value. So it's going to
be pretty close to $1,000.00. But the streets, curb and gutter, storm sewers, sanitary sewer,
the approximately cost that we use just for a rough estimate ... is right around $250.00 a
running foot.
Andrews: And does the property owner adjacent pick up part of that cost?
John Birch: No. That's part of the problem. Kings Road has platted. What happens is ... that
all of the land that Kings Road is on this property. None of it is on this property. So not
only does he build this or have to build this road but he's got no recourse to get money back
from these people who now have a nice road against their property and can develop their
' properties.
Andrews: I would have to assume that there's more linear feet in a curved roadway than a
straight roadway.
John Birch: In this instance here? Is that what you're saying?
Andrews: Yes.
John Birch: Yes there is. But with this type of alignment, what happens is, now he can
offset the cost of these higher value lots. He provides the roadway, gets the lots in here. If
he builds this road with the park system here, he's got no way to offset the cost of that
' roadway at all. And it does get very expensive. Because that's an upfront cost. He also has
to provide the bond of 150% of the total cost. And all of that becomes quite a burden.
Lash: Can someone refresh my memory as to why we decided on that specific location on
this parcel. I know there had been discussion of locating it in other areas and I can't recall
right off.
' Andrews: Access was the main.
13
1
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Lash: Okay, that's what I was thinking. Because of the park deficient nature of that area we
wanted it to be more accessible to the parkway?
Andrews: And we wanted it to be on the trail system too. I guess one of my frustrations
here, some of the reasons I was asking the cost questions is, I count up approximately 8,
maybe 10 lots that are affected by the change in plat. I have nothing to base my guesses on
here other than to say that if those lots are worth $10,000.00 more a piece because they're
closer to the lake, you know that's $80,000.00 potentially for the property, or for the
developer here to perhaps increase his sale. But at the same time he's got to build some
additional roadway and now he's sat on that property for another 6 months. He's hired more
architects. More planners. More engineers. More attorneys to look at the property. It's very
frustrating for me as a part of our Park Board that this is an area, as a Park Board, we've been
looking for a quality piece of property for a number of years with very few opportunities.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, the Harstad property came along. Depending on who's side of
the fence you're on I think here. But we look at the location here as being one of, there's a
right way to do it and a wrong way to do it from our standpoint and I guess my opinion is to
locate the property in a distant corner of the parcel makes it inaccessible and not meeting our
needs and that's why, in both cases when this project came before us, we were quite strong in
our recommendation that that's why we wanted it located where it was. And when it left here
last year I think, young Mr. Harstad, I think it was.
John Birch: Paul.
Andrews: Paul Harstad. There's no way that he misunderstood our intentions on that night
because he came in here and he was I think a little shocked at the reception that he received
because I think he figured we were going to go along with what he thought was a plat similar
to this and there was no way. So I guess I'm going to have to speak personally that I'm
disappointed to see this back again. I understand what you're talking about as far as the costs
here. I mean there is a trade off here and I would think through the, there is a fairness issue
here that I think is dealt with through prior court cases I would imagine. If a property owner
is deprived of his, or injured by action of another, he has a right to recover that injury
through fair treatment or through the legal recourse. So I guess I would argue that ultimately
in the ideal world this should work out to be fair, and I'm hoping that it will. For that reason
I'm going to recommend that we follow the recommendation. That's my personal opinion so.
John Birch: The only thing I would say is, first of all he's got 12 lots, not 8 lots that he
can ... from. Again, if there was a way to realign the road to get down, or when the costs were
to be, we've looked at it a couple three different ways. Our company's, I haven't personally
looked at it over the period of time. I've only been working on it for about the last 3 to 4
14
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
months but we've got a number of sketches in our office trying to come up with a reasonable
solution and because of the way the King's Road was originally aligned, it went down on this
property owner's property. All of it. None of it was split on the line the way it normally is
and so it does, it throws all the burden onto this property.
' Hoffman: That piece of information is new information to me. I've had a number of
conversations with our engineers and our planners over some possibilities with the funding of
' that roadway. It was certainly represented, due to past experience to the property owners on
the south side of Kings Road that it would be difficult, it may be difficult to convince the
City Council to assess those people but they still benefit from it so, it's ... to assume that they
could be assessed on the south side of Kings Road as well. So this is a new piece of
information presented... investigate on behalf of the commission.
Andrews: I agree with what you're saying Todd but yet I don't feel that's within our area of
concern. I mean we'd like to see it fairly divided, because it should be. It should be ideally
but.
Hoffman: You're correct. That will be for the City Council.
Andrews: That's for them to decide. And I think we have to look at the pure issue which is
where should a park be. How does it best serve our city. Yes, it may create an adverse
' impact. I would have to admit you're not the first representative of a developer here that's
come in here and said I'd like you to build your park somewhere else. I would say that
happens virtually every time. For some reason, I don't know if it's coincidence but usually
' they prefer to have the park on the least valuable property. Usually on the most isolated
corner, on the lowest quality land and I think I've figured out why. But in this situation we
feel that as a Park Board, and you were here for part of our study here earlier of our
parkland, that we have a very scarce resource to work with here that we need to protect. I
mean 20 -30 years from now I don't want to have to look at kids or grandkids and say geez,
you know. There almost was a nice park here. But we decided it really wasn't that big of a
deal and we decided we'd build it back in the woods there but, you know we could go back
there but it's kind of hard to find it or it doesn't really hook up to anything quite the right
way. I can't do that.
Lash: You can walk to it but you can walk an extra mile.
' Andrews: Yeah. You can walk to it but once you're there, you can't see the lake anymore.
You know the neighbors wish they had something closer to the lake but geez, you know the
developer wanted to put houses there. Boy that's just, to me this is an issue, there's a right
' way and a wrong way and in spite of the fact that this is going to result in less dollars for the
1 15
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
developer in his pocket, as we've discussed many times here, the developer isn't going to live
in the development. Most likely. And he'll be on his way to some other city to put in a
development using the same arguments again and we're left with a property that wasn't done
the best way it could have been done. So that's a personal opinion.
Berg: I couldn't say it as well as you but the issues for me are, we are so incredibly deficient
in that area and the access of the spot we've already decided upon. Or that we recommended
and I strongly support your point of view.
Roeser: So do I. I agree. I think that's the best spot for that park.
Huffman: Do you want to make a motion?
Roeser: I have no reason to change my mind and move it back up into there. I can think of
no reason why we would want to do that.
John Birch: Are there any other questions I can answer? Thank you.
Andrews: We need to make a, or are we staying on our prior motion or do we need to make
one here?
Hoffman: It's a new application.
Andrews: A new application would require a motion then.
Huffman: I'd like to move that, the correct verbiage being that we're under the new user
friendly rules, do I have to read the entire park and trail again? Do I have to read the whole
thing? I'd like to reference that, make a motion that for the park, the plat should include a 10
acre park at the northwest intersection of Kings Road and Minnewashta Parkway. The
acquisition of the park to be accomplished through park dedication and purchase of 1.72+
acres and purchase of 7.4 acres. This acquisition shall be conditioned of final plat approval.
A purchase agreement shall be negotiated by the City contingent upon City Council approval.
Full park fee credit shall be granted as part of these negotiations and acceptance of full trail
dedication fees in force upon building permit application is recommended. Current trail fees
are $300.00 per single family residential unit.
Andrews: I've got one clarification I'd like to add if I could. And that would be to the
reference to the northwest corner of Kings Road be where the road currently lies. Not as
where it's shown on this plat.
16
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Meger: Second.
Andrews: Any further discussion?
Huffman moved, Meger seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend
approval of the Oaks at Minnewashta with the following conditions of approval in regard to
parks and trails:
Park
The plat shall include a 10± acre park at the northwest intersection of where Kings Road
currently is located and Minnewashta Parkway. The acquisition of the park to be
accomplished through park dedication (1.72 acres) and purchase (7.48 acres). This
acquisition shall be a condition of final plat approval. A purchase agreement shall be
negotiated by the city contingent upon City Council approval. Full park fee credit shall be
granted as a part of these negotiations.
Trail
Acceptance of full trail dedication fees in force upon building permit application is
recommended. Current trail fees are $300.00 per single family residential unit.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
SELECTION OF REPRESENTATIVE FOR DISTRICT 112 COMMUNITY EDUCATION
ADVISORY COUNCIL.
Hoffman: This is an issue that just won't go away. I'll let you take it from there.
Huffman: No.
Lash: You were our second choice. Actually you were our first choice but you weren't here
so we didn't nominate you.
Huffman: Bless you.
Andrews: Well, are there are any volunteers here? Can we volunteer paid staff people? Are
we allowed to do that?
Berg: What happens if we don't have somebody?
17
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Huffman: I cannot commit the time.
Berg: How vital is membership in your opinion?
Hoffman: We have a representative to the City Council sits on the Minnetonka Advisory
Board, Mark Senn. They've made the invitation as a gesture to go ahead and communicate...
the partnerships in my opinion would be a minor slap in the face.
Berg: I'll do it. If that's okay.
Lash: I nominate Fred.
Andrews: Second.
Lash moved, Andrews seconded to appoint Fred Berg as a Representative to the District 112
Community Education Advisory Council. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Huffman: Let me ask you this however. How would they feel,...now that Fred's going to do
it all the time, if he can't make it, if somebody else were to help him sit in for it?
Hoffman: Sure.
Lash: So Fred I want to know now, will this fit seem right to you?
Berg: The fit?
Lash: Well Chris didn't have the proper fit.
Berg: Oh. I think I can probably fit.
LAND DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL: A 3,000 SOUARE FOOT BUILDING, BOSTON
CHICKEN TO BE LOCATED ON LOT 2, BLOCK 1, CHANHASSEN RETAIL 3RD
ADDITION. THE PROPERTY IS ZONED PUD AND LOCATED IN THE SOUTHEAST
CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF WEST 78TH STREET AND POWERS
BOULEVARD, NORTHSTAR RESTAURANTS, INC.
Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item.
Lash: This is a sit down restaurant?
18
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Roeser: It's a take out too, the way it looks.
Berg: It's sort of both.
Hoffman: It's fast food.
Andrews: I'll move that we accept staff recommendation.
Lash: Second.
Andrews moved, Lash seconded that the Pant and Recreation Commission recommend to the
City Council that full park and trail fees be collected per city ordinance in lieu of land
dedication and/or trail construction for Boston Chicken. All voted in favor, except Huffman
who opposed, and the motion carved with a vote of 6 to 1.
Huffman: I keep hearing about we should have this great downtown area and we should
' amphitheaters and we should have all these things. It's too little. It's too late and we have a
fast food franchise you know growing on our posteriors and I think it's offensive to the city
' plan. We had talked, again growing through the community and it's like garbage from the
highway. So no.
Meger: I would think ... for the City Council to hear comments.
Huffman: It doesn't, I'll use my cute line here. It really doesn't matter what the City Council
' thinks we feel anyway from our last recommendation. The way that was handled either so.
Andrews: Noted.
1 LAND DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL: REZONING 20.11 ACRES OF PROPERTY ZONED
RR RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO RSF, RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY AND
' PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE 20.11 ACRES INTO 20 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS
JUST WEST OF WILLOWRIDGE SUBDIVISION, TED COEY PROPERTY, MASON
HOMES, POINT LAKE LUCY.
' Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item.
Roeser: I went out there yesterday. It sure would make a nice passive park. That's beautiful
land.
I
1 19
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Andrews: Is the applicant here? Are you? Do you have anything to add to the staff
presentation?
Randy Travalia: I'm Randy Travalia. I'm President of Mason Homes. I really have nothing
to add to the staff report but I'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have...
Andrews: Thank you.
Lash: Just because I happen to live close to this. Are you looking at similar type homes to
the Lundgren Homes that are, price range?
Randy Travalia: We'd anticipate them to be just slightly higher. The Willow Ridge
neighborhood is in the $300 -400 range and we would expect that we would have $400 to
maybe $800.
Huffman: You build beautiful homes. They are beautiful.
Randy Travalia: Thank you.
Andrews: I have no questions about this. Can we have a motion please?
Lash: I wish we lived in a world where we could buy it but you know.
Berg: I would accept staffs recommendation.
Andrews: Is there a second to that?
Manders: Second.
Berg moved, Manders seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that
the City Council approve that full park and trail fees be paid per city ordinance in lieu of any
land dedication and/or trail construction for Point Lake Lucy. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
Andrews: I guess I had one question on the plat, is how do you get access to Lot 12?
Randy Travalia: There's a private driveway that services both 11 and 12.
Andrews: Oh, okay. It's not important.
20
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Randy Travalia: There will be a shared driveway that will come here and service the home
sitting here and here ... We met with the engineering staff today and we're...
Manders: How big are the lots?
Randy Travalia: There's 20 of them on 18 acres so they average...
PROGRAM REPORTS:
A. FEBRUARY FESTIVAL.
Ruegemer: Thank you Chairman Andrews. As everybody knows, February Festival is
quickly approaching us. Here's a quick overview of the scheduled events. That's basically
how everything will be laid out as they are now. We had a February Festival team meeting
yesterday and we did get a few people here so we conquered a few issues yesterday morning.
So those are very helpful to have. One issue that we're hopefully, an obstacle that will be
overcome now is working out the fishing contest. It looks like the Chamber is going to be
putting, they're sponsoring that fishing contest so we can hold that again this year so it looks
like we can iron out those details. Hopefully tomorrow we'll get that application into the
Minnesota Gambling Commission. Hopefully by tomorrow afternoon. That... aggressive but
hopefully the City Council should have ... a turn around period on that so we need, this is vital
' that this is done quickly and we can give the rest of the publication and printing
accomplished in order to get that information out this week so we're looking to keep ... as soon
as we can. It's been an experience going through this fishing contest. Hopefully it's
something that we've certainly learned, or that I've learned a lot over this whole ordeal so I
hope that we can get that accomplished in future years so. It looks like this year, knock on
wood, it looks like 95% sure that we'll have this problem solved so. Other than that, I'm sure
' a lot of you have seen around town the 4 x 8 sheets of plywood. February Festival signs out.
And also the banner down on West 78th Street in front of St. Hubert's. We're getting into
advertising that way and also the Victoria Gazette is going to be coming out in February with
' a half page ad. And also the next, this coming ... or tomorrow in the Sun Sailor... Villager.
Additional advertising trying to get the word out so people are going to remember the date.
So we're just continuing to work on that on a daily basis and trying to get a lot of the
wrinkles ironed out at this point. Also, I do have the volunteer list with me tonight so if, I do
have everybody listed for the prize board again so if there's anybody that can't make it.
' Lash: Can you believe it? I have one wedding a year, and it's that day. I cannot believe it.
Ruegemer: No kidding.
1 21
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Lash: No kidding.
Ruegemer: Did you decline?
Lash: No.
Roeser: Did you say you've got us all down for the prize board, is that it? Is that what you
said?
Ruegemer: Yeah.
Andrews: Is there admission to this?
Ruegemer: Is there what?
Andrews: Admission charge for this.
Ruegemer: Admission? For the fishing contest?
Andrews: For the event.
Ruegemer: No. The majority of the funding, 90% of the events are free. The only think you
need to pay for is the fishing contest.
Andrews: Are there hats or t- shirts?
Ruegemer: Yes ... Dave will be emceeing our fishing contest since he has the gift of gab so.
Lash: He can do it without a mic.
Andrews: There will be no argument about who wins then.
Berg: So there are going to be large mouth bass then...
Huffman: ...as long as Fred and I aren't on the ice at the same time.
Andrews: Let's move on here.
Berg: What time Jerry? For us.
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I Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Ruegemer: I have you guys down from 1:30 to 3:15. The contest starts at 3:00 so we need
' some prep time in there, and that can be adjusted. We need two shifts. 1:30 to 3:15 and
3:15 to around 5:00.
Lemme: And we did take your recommendation to the sweatshirt and those are being printed.
We'll have two options. A black sweatshirt, non - hooded and then a gray sweatshirt with a
hood...
Meger: What were the two shifts again? 1:30 to.
Ruegemer: 1:30 to 3:15 and 3:15 to 5:00.
Andrews: He's wondering if there are barley beverages going to be available.
Huffman: I'm a lot funnier.
Ruegemer: A shot of gasoline.
Lash: There was not last year, was there? That was something that. We had chili. You
could buy chili. And hot chocolate.
Ruegemer: We will not have beer down there, nor will the Lion's. The Lion's will be doing
the food sales. Selling chili, hot dogs, candy bars.
Lash: Hot chocolate.
Ruegemer: In fact... Colonial Church is going to be donating all of that and volunteering
that... coffee cruiser again so it gives us free advertising on 'CCO too.
Huffman: Nobody's listening on 'CCO though. Actually Fred's the only listener I think
they've got coming back.
Ruegemer: So, if there's other volunteer opportunities as well, if somebody else wants to
bring out an ice auger or something.
Meger: I was going to say, I'll take the early shift from 1:30 to 3:15.
Manders: What is this prize board going to consist of? Something like last year's?
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Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Ruegemer: Yeah ... We're not going to be giving out specific prizes. We're going to have
more of a.
Hoffman: Grab bag.
Ruegemer: Yeah. It will be separated by, you'll have a prize where you get a $10.00 prize,
$5.00 prize ... and you're not going to be digging through the wishing well either to look for a
prize so ... Other than that we're really just...
Andrews: I think we need a Lake Susan softball tournament for this thing next year. On the
ice.
Huffman: Broomball game?
Andrews: Softball game. Let's move on. Does that wrap that one up Jerry?
Ruegemer: Yes. Volunteer parking passes will be included...
B. TEEN DANCE.
Ruegemer: The teen dance was, was that last Friday? No, Friday the 13th. That was Friday
the 13th. We had approximately 150 kids there for that night and that was just 7th and 8th
graders alone. I think our group, especially Chaska Park and Rec and Community Education
I think were really, really pleased with the Park and Rec Commission's, I lost the word here.
For their.
Lash: Wisdom?
Ruegemer: Wisdom. Forethought. Foresight. Just separating those two grades. We had, as
you know, from the 6th graders we had probably in excess of 200 -250 kids at the last dance
in October and this one we were roughly 150, which was down a little bit from what we had
thought but again in trying to do some research and that, possibly there was a lot more 6th
graders at the last dances where we had them together than what we had realized. So that's,
we were fine with that and we recouped our costs within $11.00 so each city lost, or each
entity lost $11.00 on this whole deal so after we paid the DJ and the concessions and
everything else, so really for an opportunity to serve 150 kids on a Friday night, I think that's
well worth the investment. So yeah, that was the best thing to do was split the age groups
and we'll continue to do that.
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Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
1
Lash: Just for thought, for the future in that. You know this particular year there's only
' Chaska 6th graders at the Middle School. The other 6th graders are here and at Jonathan and
all over and that may be the case next year. I don't know that any of that has been definitely
figured out but you may want to be thinking for next year. Say there's no 6th grade at the
' middle school next year, do you even want to think about that or scrap the whole idea or is it
a time for them to come together and mingle.
Ruegemer: Yeah, there was definitely...
Lash: But just because they don't go to the same school together, they may be more reluctant
to go to something like that. There will be a lot of kids they won't know.
Ruegemer: So yeah, it worked out good. We're going to continue to modify...
SENIOR VOLUNTEER APPRECIATION BREAKFAST AND DADDY DAUGHTER DATE
' NIGHT.
Lemme: Actually this is just an informational issue ... Senior Center we have volunteer
' appreciation breakfast and you can see my wonderful picture in the paper. But they really
appreciated it and us employees ... and another informational item is we've got our Daddy
Daughter Date Night coming up...just a week ago that I had all these people all of a sudden
' calling on the Daddy Daughter Date Night and I've had to turn away now so I'll be real
excited to have it ... I'm hoping to do a Daddy Daughter Ball ... dance and have supper and just
have a really exciting night.
Andrews: We did something like this with the Girl Scouts. The young Scouts.
' Lash: Daisy's?
Andrews: Whatever, Daisy's. They got a little band and it was a daddy daughter dance. Boy
the kids just go nuts. They love it and it's a lot of fun.
Lemme: ' Last year we did line dancing and the year before we had a caricature and we
' decided to go back to that ... every child having a caricature of them and their dad together.
Play games.
Andrews: Good stuff.
Hoffman: Then we're missing a mommy son.
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Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Manders: That's what I was thinking. Where's that come in?
Lash: ...age level. If you think after age 8, that interest just totally fades out. I think a lot of
time for a teenage fathers, it's nice to make that connection.
Huffman: You see that a lot of that in some of the schools now where they will have the
father, especially in the parochial schools, there's a lot of those coming back. I mean they're
really making a 10th, 11th, 12th grade girls and fathers coming back. Those are huge now.
Lash: What do you think Fred? You have 2 daughters.
Berg: Yeah, my older daughter would love it and my younger daughter, I couldn't pay her
enough money to go with me. So I think it depends a lot on the kid.
Lash: But it doesn't have anything to do with the age.
Berg: No, it doesn't have anything to do with the age. I'd like to see it extended beyond a
little bit I think, yeah.
Lemme: It'd be something that ... to age level because even with a 14 year old, you've really
got a big age span there and the activities... but the recreation center we'll ... do some
programming...
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS:
Andrews: Are there any?
Berg: I've got one thing, and I guess it makes it Park and Rec in what we've tried to do with
teenagers and tried to provide some opportunities. I don't know if anyone else was fortunate,
or unfortunate enough to get the mailings from Public Safety about a month or so ago about
crime alert and concerns in the neighborhood, etc. And what upset me was, one of the last
parts of it dealt with things to watch for in your neighborhood. One of them was loud
crashing sounds, which was okay. And I forget what a couple of the other ones were but the
last one dealt, and I'm paraphrasing said, be careful or be aware of adolescents casually
walking through your neighborhood. In my profession that really upset me, and I turned it
over to a lot of my kids and they, I'm afraid whoever the lady was who was responsible for
the brochure got an awful lot of calls in the next 36 hours. I think that's an intolerable thing
to say. What if that comment were, be aware of African Americans casually walking through
your neighborhood? There's no way in the world we would tolerate that. I just want to be on
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Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
record as saying that I do think it's totally intolerable and I hope that nothing like that is ever
done again. I think it's just abominable. It's shameful, I think.
Andrews: It's a slight, if they're being good, then they must be doing something bad.
Berg: Exactly. My 15 year old daughter can no longer go out and walk her dog without
being suspect of breaking into somebody's car or home. One of the answers when they called
was, well we just caught somebody, a 14 year old breaking into a car the last weekend.
Lash: That's not casually walking through a neighborhood.
Berg: Well my point is, the point is, you probably also in the last month or so have caught
an adult doing the same thing. I don't see that there's any concern being raised about that.
There's no Native Americans mentioned. There's no African Americans. There's no
Hispanics. Why all of a sudden are we entertaining, or suggesting that this group of people is
now suspect. I think that's totally, as I said, totally inappropriate.
Andrews: Agreed.
Lash: I agree.
Andrews: I had a couple of commission member items here. One is that last weekend I did
go up to North Lotus Lake and go skating up there with the warming house and boy is that
ever nice, and there were a few people there and they love it. It just is really nice so that's
really been very nice. Appreciate that. And geez, I forgot what the second one was already,
but I think people are looking forward to seeing the next stage of the North Lotus and I think
we should keep moving ahead with that program. Have you had similar comments? Positive
comments on the warming house up there?
Ruegemer: Yeah, I've heard from room attendants that people, residents have been really
commenting that, how much you know, it's really the North Lotus really isn't that busy of a
park really for people using it. As far as people coming into the warming house but a lot of
people have been commenting, they're really looking forward to next year with the hockey
rinks and the hockey boards get up and the lights and that's going to draw I think a ton more
people. Skating after dark. So there have been a lot of comments in that manner.
Andrews: There would be a couple comments I'd make about the warming house itself. One
would be that, I don't know who installed the step, the stairway right outside the door. If
that's city property or if it's provided by the people that we've rented the warming but from
but it's not quite wide enough so when the door swings open, it sticks. Then you've got to
27
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
kind of yank it back. The other thing would be as you walk down the steps with your skates
on, the surface right at the bottom of the steps is nearly fatal as far as it being at a pitch and
covered with ice and not level. And so you almost fall down instantaneously and hit the
stairway and I'm a fairly proficient skater and it wasn't the greatest set -up as far as the
exiting. What there should be, to be honest, would be a ramp. It should be a ramp, not a
stairway for skates on. I mean it's very precarious to go up and down stairways with skates
on so that's it.
Ruegemer: Just to kind of correct the problem in the near future, would a piece of plywood
down on the bottom of that help?
Andrews: Yes. Yeah, that would be great. So you at least have something where you don't
slip as soon as you step off the stairway, which would be nice. Again, you don't want to go
on ice with skates. Any other presentations?
Huffman: Only one comment. The only thing I have just to base on is obviously the
headline in the Chanhassen paper last week. The City Council voting down the
recommendation that the Park and Rec Board sent forward and I had my flippant comment
earlier. I actually read that and I was very upset. I felt that we spent some fruitful time,
discussion, thoughts. I mean it's obviously a topic that has come up before this commission
many other times and it sounded like it was, again I can only go by the paper but it sounded
like it was disposed of in a pretty senseless manner. There were some interesting thoughts
and some insightful comments from one or two people but I thought it was disposed of in a
very tacky, poor way and I honestly felt after reading that, that I had wasted a lot of personal
time on an issue that we've laughed about for a long time but really put some discussion in.
And I, I get frustrated in the sense that I'm trying to help. Trying to do something but when
the City Council stands there and just dumps it like that, I mean tell us what you want us to
do. We'll rubber stamp it and go forward. But I was pretty upset by that and the reason I
was upset, because now I look at coming before them with an issue that is going to raise
millions of dollars of issues trying to put before, and I think we're going to get nickel and
dimed as opposed to taking a serious look at it. And before I really start stepping into this
process of spending hours and hours, and we've already spent emotional time commitment, to
this issue, I want to know if the City Council is actually serious about things that we are
serious about. It was very frustrating for me.
Manders: I attended that same meeting and my observations would be very similar to your
comments. That a couple of people are pretty adamant and agree with our position, but how
it was disposed of was not, the method was simply stated that it hadn't come before the
Council quick enough to meet their budget guidelines so.
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Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Lash: I want to, not that I necessarily agree with their findings but I, and maybe it's because
I've been here long enough that I know that everything is not going to always be approved by
the City Council. And I will admit that in the past I've had those frustrations on different
issues that were not followed up on our recommendation and I've learned to deal with that
frustration I guess. In this particular issue, after reading the article, I thought that they had
some good comments and I thought that they were, like you said, some thoughtful comments
from different Council members. And it did make some sense to me that we didn't stop to
consider the fact that this budget has already been set and what we were doing was taking
money out of that budget. We need to make sure and give careful thought to the timing of
some of these things and in the future, if this is going to be a yearly item that needs to be
open for discussion, we need to do it earlier so it can go to the City Council before their
yearly budget has been set and our budget has been set. So I can see their, they have to look
at the bigger picture and I always try to remember that. We have a smaller piece to study.
They have to answer to many people. They're elected. We're not. And in the time where
people are being very conservative with their tax money and their finances, I think that they
were trying to demonstrate fiscal responsibility to the voters by doing that. We don't
necessarily all agree with that but I think I have some understanding of where they're coming
from reading the article. So I didn't have the same reaction of instantaneous frustration. I was
surprised. I was very surprised but after reading it I did have some basis of understanding I
guess with it. Maybe we want to move this discussion so that if this is the direction we want
it to be, we have it timed next year so that this is, we have to take this as a learning
experience.
Andrews: I was disappointed by the decision. For them to say that it wasn't part of the
budget, and use that as a reason, is a bunch of hooey. Because if they needed to buy a
$50,000.00 piece of equipment, and they had to buy it, they'd find the money. So it was just
something that I think the timing wasn't right. It was the first time we've done this so I think
maybe it caught them a little by surprise and I think we just need to come back with a little
better job of the reasons why we think so and.
Lash: And they be getting a mixed message. We meet with them one night and we say we
don't have the money. We don't have any money. We can't do this. We don't have the
money and then we send them a motion, the next one that says gee, we're going to eliminate
our fee that generates, even though it's not a lot of money, it is some money. So there could
have been a mixed message.
Manders: Taking that one step further I mean, you look at the discussion prior to that issue
was that treed lot in the development. Heritage development that they supported that and that
was good to see and some of the comments and discussion revolving around that issue was,
to me that was the most important issue. This issue is okay, we have to deal with that
29
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
another year. We'll come back and we can deal with that and that to me is very secondary. I
accept that we need to understand the position of the Council in terms of our efforts on a lot
of things but to me it's a secondary issue. Preservation, things that are going to impact things
down the road are much more important to me.
Lash: We will not always be listened to so.
Huffman: Well I understand. Very eloquently stated. It's still very frustrating.
Lash: I know.
Andrews: Let's move on to Administrative Presentations.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
A. PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION TOWN MEETING.
Todd Hoffman gave the staff presentation on this item and then asked the commission if they
would like to have the large park map displayed.
Andrews: I think there's a benefit.
Roeser: I guess if there's a place for it.
Hoffman: If we have the room, we'll bring it over.
Andrews: I guess I perhaps want you to add to it, you know you've got the white cut out
showing the developed land. Maybe you want to put some green paper over the current
parkland so we can readily identify that.
Hoffman: We'll refine that.
Lash: And you do that in a reduced version too so if a person wants to pick one up and take
it with them, then they can show it to everyone they know. That would be helpful.
Andrews: To me the map has been one of the most effective tools we've had.
Todd Hoffman continued his staff report at this point.
Andrews: So you need to assign topics and assign spokespeople.
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I Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Hoffman: That would do it.
' Lash: May I ask two questions here? Actually it's one question but it involves two different
exhibits. And I'm not meaning to seem nit picky about this but I want to make sure we have
our ducks all in a row. We have out exhibits for the Bandimere Park concept and the
Minnewashta/Kings Road concept. Are those two concepts that we feel comfortable enough
where they're at right now to put those out for public display? I mean this Kings Road thing,
we just had that again tonight. We're recommending that but.
Hoffman: The Kings Road concept, if you recall, is pretty nebulous. It has some play area.
' It's a public document which has been approved by the Park and Recreation Commission.
Lash: But we haven't even acquired the property yet.
Huffman: But we haven't acquired Bluff Creek charette either.
' Lash: No, I know it.
Huffman: I mean this is your wish list. This is what we'd like to see. This is what's out
there that we are going to lose. If we don't have it, I mean it's potentially there but we could
lose every one of these things.
Andrews: What you need to show is current Bandimere Park concept development plan.
Then for Minnewashta/Kings Road, it would be proposed Minnewashta Park.
Lash: Yeah.
Roeser: Yeah, this is what we're doing. I think you've got to do that.
Lash: Okay. I just don't want people to come away and then if say the Kings Road thing,
who knows. What if the guy pulls out totally and ... then they're going to come back and say,
geez.
' Andrews: Yeah, we have to be clear on what's real and what's paper.
Lash: And even Bandimere. I know we've had a plan for years and years and years but we
' haven't even looked at it for years.
Andrews: Yeah, years and years. It's been a long time.
1 31
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Lash: So I see that proposed leaving us always an exit. That we're opening.
Andrews: I will not be here that night. So if there's others that wish to volunteer.
Huffman: I was informed today at 3:00, I'll be on a plane at 11:30 on the 5th to Chicago and
I won't be coming home until the 11th.
Lash: I'll be there. I'm willing to do anything.
Andrews: Okay, could you be a spokesperson.
Lash: Sure. I can talk from my gut.
Andrews: Another person to volunteer to speak on a broad range of subjects. Fred, you're.
Berg: Well I'd like to volunteer Jim because he's done such a, every meeting we've had he's
done such an eloquent job of talking about preservation.
Andrews: I think that's a good idea.
Berg: If you're willing to. I'm really not trying to get even or anything. But you really have
done a great job of explaining our position on that. I think.
Andrews: He didn't decline so.
Manders: I guess if you feel the same way I would be willing.
Andrews: That's all it takes.
Lash: You're blushing Jim.
Andrews: As far as the topics, you still need, it looks like we're going to have to have some
people take more than one. Unless you and Jerry could take...
Hoffman: As far as the exhibit?
Andrews: Yeah.
Hoffman: No. We would like the commission to be there.
32
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Lash: Are there some that are natural...
Hoffman: 10. 10 divided by 5.
Andrews: Like the park trail map and the overhead map are kind of similar. Or you have
like aerial photos and you've got some that are very similar there.
Lash: For some reason I see a natural connection with Ron and the history piece.
Roeser: Oh sure.
Lash: Well your name is on.
Roeser: I agree. My name is on it, sure. I'll agree with that. That's no problem.
Lash: Was there a definition? I don't know, I'm trying to figure another one to hook him with
' here. Would the referendum definition be a good one with that or would that go better with
the tax implication?
Hoffman: Yeah, teaming those two up is just a bummer of a display. Splitting that would
not be bad. If we put the referendum definition with that history, that would be good.
Lash: And Dave, you're not going to be here.
Huffman: I tried to change it 3 times. I got shot down 3 times.
Lash: So would a natural connection be Bandimere and Minnewashta, since they're both
proposed. I'd do that unless there's somebody else who really is burning to take those.
Andrews: Bluff Creek. Dave, we sure wish you could be there.
Huffman: I'll tell you what, that's a great thing to talk about too. That is such a neat concept
and you can build.
Hoffman: We have that on aerial photos too.
Huffman: Oh. That's just a neat, I mean you should just somehow, and they kept talking
about that going from the Minnewashta to the Minnesota. You need to attach them again.
It's an emotional concept of the spacial relationship in the city. Where it runs and where it
flows.
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Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Lash: So how about Bluff Creek and aerial photos?
Roeser: Yeah, they would go together.
Lash: Go together. Anyone?
Manders: Then you're thinking about the top two? Park trails and lake atlas?
Hoffman: Yeah. And the...
Berg: I'll do the tax chart and the large map.
Manders: I will do the park trails and the lake atlas.
Hoffman: Okay, Jane.
Roeser: What does that leave for Jane.
Andrews: Jane got volunteered for.
Hoffman: Bluff Creek design and aerial photos.
Lash: Now, is there something that you're going to give us so we know something about it
Hoffman: Information sheet. And then as well I will be calling Jan to go ahead and take the
meeting...
Lash: So if it falls flat, is it going to be our fault?
Huffman: You're on your own.
Andrews: ...does that close item 8(a) then?
Huffman: If this thing moves forward, if our bond referendum moves forward, I did some
investigation. Our company, one arm is a thing called Life Touch Video Creations. They
have Ralph John Fritz is involved in that. One of the services they provide is they go out and
they will do all the way from yearbook, video yearbooks, who we've also been contracted by
several cities. Princeton, Cambridge, a couple others and created a video about their own
town. History. Been requested by realtors. School districts. People. It's a $6,500.00 charge
to lay it out first but they will bring and they will give to you then anywhere from a 15
34
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
minute to a 30 minute video with voice over, completely done, as good as anybody at any TV
station here in town. And if it ever reaches the point where ... you can declare whether those
are good or bad in your own initiative. That's why I threw that caveat in there. But a tool
down the road somewhere. I mean to discuss. Think about. There is a cost to it because it's
a pretty swift deal. If you want to talk about inundating cable TV and public access and
things like that. Plus we also know some guys who work over there who might be able to
come over and do a knock off for us at a reduced rate.
Lash: We have, didn't we talk about at this deal possibly having that slide show of Bluff
Creek?
Andrews: The Bluff Creek slide show.
Hoffman: Yes, we did. It was on the initial list. That list ... was about another third as long.
Another half that long. It begins to get complex and complicated... 15 or 20 minutes of your
time to talk about that particular issue.
Andrews: Could we maybe get those guys to, you know even if you could get like a half a
dozen to put in your projector and just shine them up on the walls and just have them keep
coming up.
Lash: Well that's what I was thinking. Like behind Jane. If it was something that was just
so they could see what they're talking about.
Andrews: Does that close item 8(a) then?
Hoffman: Yes.
DIRECTORS REPORT.
Hoffman: 8(b) is something that I often feel that I'm losing touch with the ... I want to keep
you up to date on what's going on and Lake Ann parking fees. This is going to be a tough
issue. The opinions at the Council are very diverse. In fact there was a big move to go
ahead and allow residents to get in free but to charge non - residents and staffs position was...
Lash: It seems like we discussed that too. That it would be such a hassle to police.
Andrews: Yeah. It was like 6% of our revenue.
35
Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Lash: What kind of, you said, you've got on here public opinion. A handful of calls and in
person testimony. So like what kinds of things are you hearing?
Hoffman: People have called in and said, you know that's the best thing ... lived here for 15
years, 10 years, 5 years and it's the best thing. I can't believe you have to pay to get in. And
then the other people say, don't do it. It's a gate keeper and they talk about the controls...
Lash: Any weight to the numbers?
Hoffman: Not enough. They went both ways. Heritage Development, Creekside. We talked
about that I think a couple of instances this evening... the long linear park with the trees. The
City Council upheld the decision as far as the recommendations of the Planning Commission,
Park and Recreation Commission. They approved the preliminary plat with 44 lots, not 48
which they asked for. Those 4 lots then are on the property which is identified for park and
open space. And thus they, to approve final plat they would have to go ahead and amend
their sub plan.
Manders: One question on that. Wasn't the road slotted to go through that treed area or is
that supposed to go around?
Hoffman: It goes smack dab inbetween these. He said well, that's the only place a road can
go but we want to save this half of trees.
Manders: Okay, so it's just one half.
Lash: Is that the one that we said we want the road so you could see the, okay.
Hoffman: Yeah. Originally the plan was to move the road all the way over to the wetlands.
It didn't work. We said alright, we'll allow you to go back to the middle. Have the lots back
up against the creek. Still retain the trail corridor but then we want to preserve this open
space and the Council came out very strongly in favor in that, even at the approximate cost of
$30,000.00 per acre.
Lash: I think this was the one I mentioned to you earlier that I have a hard time, and I have
to imagine other people do, that tracking what these development names are or developers
names and where they are. I just can't keep track.
Roeser: This one I had forgotten all about.
36
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Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Lash: Yeah, I had too so I know I need to have something, some kind of reference point
made on these for me to make a connection.
Meger: It'd be helpful to have that.
Hoffman: I'll make that an addition to the map... Commission appointments, Fred and
Jim ... new policy in regards to appointments to commissions and it looks like they have
changed the schedule from getting that job done in October through December to January
through April and so your budget and all those other things can be done in the fall of the year
and then the appointments can be made, I think April is what they're looking at. So you're
both up for interviews... On going issues, we have the Harstad Companies...
Huffman: Can we write letters of support? What do we do? I mean on protocol here. I
need some help.
Lash: Generally it's not a real big issue Dave.
Huffman: Oh yeah, right.
Andrews: Well it hasn't been yet Dave. Maybe it will be.
Huffman: Yeah, I've seen this dance before too.
Lash: And it's Fred and, I can't even remember.
Andrews: Jim.
Hoffman: On going issues, we have 4, the Harstad Companies. You reviewed that this
evening. So again that will go back to the Planning Commission for preliminary plat and
eventually the City Council so watch for that to move along. 5, the Stockdale acquisition.
The ball is in their court. Again, I spoke to Dave's spouse. They... contacted me again but
I'm not sure if they're turning cold to the idea... 6, the Opus Gateway application is on going.
Under construction activity, we have a lot of trail segments going in. The Meadows at Long
Acres, Trotter's Ridge, Stone Creek Trails, and then 10, the new elementary school rec center
is coming along nicely. They've name it, if you haven't heard, Bluff Creek Elementary. And
then I noted that a big thanks goes out to Jim for attending the January 9th meeting ... With
that I have nothing further unless there are any questions of the commission.
Andrews: Okay, Administrative. Any highlights there?
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Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
ADMINISTRATIVE SECTION.
Hoffman: There certainly are .... should the map be displayed. The second issue is, the newest
member of our staff, the newest engaged member of the staff is Dawn Lemme. She was
engaged this Sunday. Sometime this May or September she thinks.
Lash: So is this the person that was at the 4th of July?
Andrews: Well this will be an ongoing agenda item.
Hoffman: As far as the administrative section. There's a whole ton of stuff in there.
Lash: And wait. The letter from the lawyer, Heritage division Creekside. Now what's, is
this the one we were just talking about?
Hoffman: You bet.
Lash: They're still having a problem with where we want to, and that's it.
Hoffman: There it is.
Andrews: Incurring costs. Determining the legal bill. I note one other highlight here, at
least that I saw and that was, a paper authored by you Todd. I read it. I thought it was
extremely well written and a grade well deserved. I thought it was really a well written
paper. Any other highlights? Now what was this referring to?
Ruegemer: That was back in June of '92. Patrick Thompson was playing... South Tonka
Little League game. At the time I think he was 10 years old. A close play in the infield
with a short hop to the shortstop. As he was running down to first baseline and he lunged
towards the base. His leg locked up and as he passed over the base, his cleats got caught into
the dirt of the infield causing his leg to lock up and break. So that's he broke his leg on that
play and it's been an ongoing battle now for close to 2 1/2 years now. So it's looking, the
Thompson's were coming after the City of Chanhassen. The City of Chanhassen was suing
South Tonka Little League, the base manufacturer and ... and I'm glad it's over. I'm sure
everybody's glad it's over.
Andrews: Great. Way to face off... Any other items? If not, is there a motion to adjourn?
38
I Park and Rec Commission - January 24, 1995
Meger moved, Andrews seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor. The meeting
' was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Recreation Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
39