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2 Roundhouse Park PavillionCITYOF ;90 CiO, Ce, ter Ddve, PO Box' 147 Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317 Pho,e 612.93Z I900 ~ Ge. era/Fax 612.93Z5739 · E, gi, eeri,g ?ax 612.93Z9152 P,b/ic Safe7 ?ax 612.934.2524 Web wwu: ci. &a,hasse,. m,. us MEMORANDUM TO: Scott Botcher, City Manager FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director DATE: January 30, 2001 SUB J: Roundhouse Park Pavilion Renovation, Second Report In response to City Council action taken on January 22na, I have prepared the following alternatives. o Buy Time - There has been some level of interest expressed in seeing what the neighborhood would like to do with the structure. There has even been mention that a local fund raising drive to raise money complimenting the $80,000 budget could be initiated. The temporary roof tarp xvhich was installed in the fall of 1999 is predicted to have another 12-24 month lifespan. To alleviate concerns over paint chips being ingested, Tom Key of Angstrom Analytical, Inc., recommends that we simply isolate the building with a perimeter chain link fence. The City Council could elect to do nothing to the 'structure in the near term allowing time for additional neighborhood input and organization. . Bare Bones -The flat roof of the Roundhouse has failed. It is structurally unsound with a pronounced sag in the center. The temporao' roof tarp has been made to drain by placing a series of pallets and tires underneath it. The exterior of the building is painted with lead-in paint which is in need of encapsulation. A bare bones approach to preserving the structure would include the following elements. Demolition/Cleanup Roof Framing Roofing Exterior Painting Total $3,000-$5,000 $4,000-$5,000 $5,000-$6,500 $10,000-$15,000 $22,000-$31,500 With this option the existing windows and door openings would be boarded over and painted. 3. Architect's Recommendation for a Partial Renovation - Mr. Wyrme Yelland, the project architect, prepared a recommendation the morning after the January 22 City Council meeting (see attached). The following costs would be incurred to complete the partial renovation under Mr. Yelland's plan. 3e C/ti, of Cha,hasse,. A So'otvi,~ comm,niti, with c/ca, lakes, clualitv schools, a chamd,.~ downtown, thrivin¢ businesses, and beauti~d om'ks. A ~reat dace to live. work. a,d day. Scott Botcher January 30, 2001 Page 2 Removal of 2nd floor debris, partitions and 2nd floor deck Removal of basement debris and partitions Grading if necessary to ensure ground is not sloped toward structure Remove temporary roof tarp, reroof existing deck with a membrane or built up roof Replace structural decking on roof as necessary Strip paint on exterior face and steel and refinish wood with clear seal and paint steel Strip paint at soffits and repair if necessary - assess quality of soffits, refinish with clear seal if warranted, paint if not Remove windows with new windows as shown on the plans Install powder coated lintels over existing windows and door openings. Replace 2nd floor door with new window as shown on plans. Replace with door with new steel door and steel frame as shown on plans. Remove any through wall and through roof penetrations. Repair existing concrete/stone steps to door and recaulk around slab where it meets the building. Replace all 3 windows in basement with glass block. Install steel angle around base and top of building interior. Install steel columns in basement to shore up structure. Install steel plates at existing 2nd floor. Repair stairs to basement. Install ventilation system. Total $5,000-$7,000 $1,000 To be complete, d in-house $4,000-$5,000 $5,000- $6,500 $15,000-$20,000 N/A $4,000-$5,000 $1,500-$2,000 $1,500-$2,000 $2,000-$3,000 $1,000 $1,000 $1,000 $15,000-$20,000 $1,500-$3,000 $2,000-$5,000 $60,500-$82,500 Please inform me if you desire additional information. I await your direction. g:\park\thXroundhouse2-e.doc ' paul v neseth & wynne g yelland, · 15.00jackson street r~e minneapolis, minnesota 55413 '783.706.5600 '.[-: 7631706.5601 fax :. .. Www.locushrchitecture.com 10cus(~,.loeus~¢hit~tui'e. eom ' . . · .' . Janu.ary 23,2001 .. .. . Todd Hoffman ., · . " ..' ' --" 'City of Chanhassen Parks & Recreation Director . ' ' 690 City Center Drive · " ' clianMssen, MN - . . 55317 - ' '. ' ' - - . .. Todd:.. . - .- .. .. - - .... ' . I've reviewed'the drawings' and have put together a list for the p~trtial renovatiOn:and struCtUral stabilization oftl~e .. ' ... Roundhouse.' We don't recommend finishing the project. Partially in this manner. The interior of the building is - - already' falling imo disrepair, and ignoring the deterioration wilt cause.further expenditures in the futurel Of course, . '. we recognize the City Council does not want to fund the proj'ect any more tMn.necessary, but. this may turn into a bigger expense, down the-road~. In any event, this is the way we see it.-' .- · _ We Would recommend City of Chanhassen completes:'. ' ' · · . Removal of second floor'debris, partition~ and second floor deck . . - " -... 'Removal of basement debris and .partitions Grading,' it' necessary, to enmre ground does not. slope towards smmttrre . _. Finishing ExteriOr Only: . . Remove'temporary roof tarp, re-roof'existing deck w}th a membrane or built-up roof - Replace structural decking on roof as necessary -- - Strip paint on exterior face and s~teel and refinish wood with a 'dear seal. Paint s~el-.. . 'Strip paint .at soffits, repair if necessary. Assess quality of soffits, refinish With clear seal if warranted; 'paint if not - . Replace windows with new Windows as shown' on plans '~ " .- ..- _ . . - Install powderc0ated lintels over. existing window and door' openings, See 3/S 1 and Detail 6/S2 -. Replace second floor door with new Windows as shown on. plans ..'- .... ' ' '- ' Replace door-with new' steel' d.oor and steel-, frame as-shown 6n plans- .~ ; .- .: Remove any through-wa!l and th~:ough-roo, fpenetrations · · .. . Repair existing.concrete/ston,e steps to d$or and reeau, tk ar0uhd, slab' where ii meets bUilding. - 'Replace all 3 windows in basement with glass block" . .. ,: . . : ' . · . · I do not kmow'if the building department-will.all°w you to[fOrgo rite following S~I-changes to save.on..costs · but we strongly recominend they are integrated into the project for-safety reasons ahd for the stability of the ' · structure. . -- . -..' ·. .... ' .... . ., . Install' steel angle around'base of building (interior), See 27S1, .and Detail 1'4/S2 '- ' · Install sfeel angle.around top of building (interior),. 'see Detail 4/S2 ' - - ' ' Install steel Columns in basement to Shore up simcture, See 2/S 1- and Detail 15 & f6/s2 _ - . . Install steel plates at ~xis'ting 2nd Floor (if removed) and ifstructu.rallY.nece.s~ary,:See t 1/S2 : '" · · . I do not -know if the'building' department would, allow you to forgo the following 'to:sa. ye on costs, but We:strongly ' '. recommend they are integrated into the project if anyone is'to ever.set foot in the building aftei- eXterior renov, ations '· are complete (for general stOrage, for electrical'repairs, etc..).' . . '- - : - - .. -. _ · · _ · .. . . .- . · . .. · Repairing stair to basement, See 2/S 1 .. .. Small .ventilation syst.em to.provide a slow stream of fresh air into.building We should talk further as well about where to go now. Who do we want to coritact ab'out this work, Jon at' M-Con 0r . someone else? I don't think we need to be involved With ~any mom drawing at 'this point:so I assume'our role will Consist of communicating with you and answei'ing questions of the Contractor.' Let me know how you want to proceed. Best :Regards, .. '- ,,, ','. /~/ Wynhe G. Yelland, AIA Locus Architecture. I~td.. CITYOF ~90 Cig Center Drive, PO Box 147 Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317 Phone 612.93Z 1900 General Fa.,: 612. 937, 5739 Engineering Fax 612.93Z9152 Public Safe{y Fax' 612.934.2524 Web www. ci. chanhassen, mn. us July 9, 1999 Dear Resident: On Tuesday, July 27, 1999, at 7:30 p.m., the Chanhassen Park and Recreation Commission will receive and review a structure assessment for the "Roundhouse" at Roundhouse Park. Locus Architecture, Ltd., has been hired to complete this assessment. The Roundhouse is a unique structure in relatively sound condition. However, upon close inspection estimated costs to renovate the structure have escalated. On the 27th, the commission will be making a recommendation to the City Council. The two obvious a_.kt_ernatives are to sl~end the money needed to refurbish the structure or to demolish it. If you have an interest in these deliberations, you are invited to join the Park and Recreation Commission on the 27th, or mail or e-mail your comments. The assessment report will be available after July 21st. If you would like a copy, please contact me. Sincerely, Todd Hoffrnan Director of Park and Recreation c~ Scott Botcher, City Manager City Council Park and Recreation Commission Roundhouse Park file g:\park\th\RoundhouseParkStmctureLtr , (7, itu n£Flm,h,ee,,,, ~ ,,~ .... ; .........;,, .... ;,L ~1~.,, I~L ...... I: .... L.. I. . t . -Smooth Feed SheetsTM Use template for 5160® JERRY L & K KORTGARD 3901 GLENDALE EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 DARYL & DEBRA KIRT 7600 CHANHASSEN ROAD CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 THOMAS P MANN 7211 MINNEWASHTA PKWY EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 HERITAGE DEVELOPMENT OF MN, INC. 450 EAST COUNTY ROAD D LI'I-FLE CANADA, MN 55117 HAROLD J. TAYLOR, TREASURER STRATFORD RIDGE HOMEOWN 3861 STRATFORD RIDGE EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 DAY CONSTRUCTION INC. 1855 W 80TH STREET VICTORIA, MN 55386 PHILIPPE A. 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SLOTT 4167 HALLGREN LANE EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 Smooth Feed SheetsTM ! ~RRY MATSUI 70 HALLGREN LANE ',CELSIOR, MN 55331 DITH & GREG HAHN 500 COUNTY ROAD 6 ~YMOUTH, MN 55447 UL & MARY JOHNSTON t4 HALLGREN LANE CELSIOR, MN 55331 /lES GARFUNKEL 8 HICKORY 3ELSIOR, MN 55331 ::)A SCOTT ~AN MORGAN 1 KINGS ROAD ',ELSIOR, MN 55331 ID BORRIS KINGS ROAD ELSIOR, MN 55331 ~ELL CARLSON KINGS ROAD ELSIOR, MN 55331 K AMBROSEN MAPLE SHORES DRIVE '--LSIOR, MN 55331 ~LD & MELANIE KELLY MAPLE SHORES DRIVE -'LSIOR, MN 55331 ' FORSS VIAPLE SHORES DRIVE '.LSIOR, MN 55331 SCO'FI' & PAMELA HOWARD 3861 MAPLE SHORES DRIVE EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 GABRIELE WITTENBURG 3870 MAPLE SHORES DRIVE EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 BRADLEY D. STRAKA 3881 MAPLE SHORES DRIVE EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 BARBARA SCOULER 3890 MAPLE SHORES DRIVE EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 TRUDY GUTOWSKI 3900 MAPLE SHORES DRIVE EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 ROBBY D. 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JACKSON 4060 WHITE OAK LANE EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 CHRIS & VAL CARNEY 4149 WHITE OAK LANE CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 AMY & RONALD DVORAK 4061 WHITE OAK LANE EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 DANIEL & DIANE WATTENHOFER 3377 LAKESHORE DRIVE CHASKA, MN 55318 SCOTT RENN 4080 WHITE OAK LANE EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 CRAIG & BETH HALLETF 4165 WHITE OAK LANE EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 ROBIN PETERS 4100 WHITE OAK LANE CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 JAY & SHEILA JOHNSTON 4181 WHITE OAK LANE EXCELSIOR, MN 55331 REGENCY HOMES 1333 5TH AVENUE ANOKA, MN 55303 JANET LOWE 315 NORWEST BANK BUILDING 1011 FIRST STREET SO HOPKINS, MN 55343 WAYNE IRENE 4116 WHITE OAK LANE CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 RICHARD STEIN 4117 WHITE OAK LANE CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 Park and Rec Commission Meeting- July 27, 1999 Lash: Okay, anyone else? 'Okay, is there a motion then to approve this with that slight change? Berg: So moved. Lash: Is there a second? Karlovich: Second. Berg moved, Karlovich seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council to approve an encroachment agreement betnveen Mr. Ronald Frigstad and the City of Chanhassen for landscaping at Bandimere Park as amended in paragraph 4. All voted in favor and the motion carried.  RECEIVE FINDINGS, ROUNDHOUSE PARK STRUCTURE ASSESSMENT, LOCU~S ARCHITECTURE. Public Present: Name Address Peter Moe 7161 Paul Neseth 1211 Janet Carlson 4141 Dave & Timothy Hughes 1780 Howard Anderson 4150 Deanna Bunkelman 4191 Edward Kling 4169 Minnewashta Parkway West 24th Street, Minneapolis Kings Road Lake Lucy Lane Red Oak Lane Red Oak Lane Red Oak Lane Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Paul Neseth: Good evening. Again I'm Paul Neseth with Locus Architecture of Minneapolis. On July 8th Dave McDonald and I and Todd Hoffman met at the roundhouse to spend about an hour looking through the structure and our task at that time was to assess the current conditions of the building and then provide you a synopsis of what those current conditions are and then also an estimate of what the cost might be to bring it up to a useable structure. I understand you were just out at the site so I don't need to describe exactly what the building is. Roughly it's just a stave building. A circular building with supporting on, the walls are the supporting structure with the roof, flat roof that has essentially failed at this point. The findings of what was there at the time was that the foundation is in satisfactory condition from what we could see. There's quite a bit of muck and water coming in at this point so it's really hard to determine exactly where that's coming in. The floor structures you saw was buckled and our assessment is that that is the substructure of that is still intact and good condition. Once it dries out I think it would be able to be repaired and brought back down to it's current, it's earlier condition. In the report, just to give you an outline of what we did. We looked at three main areas. One was the demolition Park and Rec Commission'Meeting- July 27, 1999 that would need to happen in order to get the building up to a useable state. The second thing was those pieces of the building which we would have to renovate and treat the surfaces differently or add to them. And then the third thing was just the new construction that would have to happen in order to get it to that point. The demolition, if I could just highlight a couple things. One is that I think it's important, even though we're taking out the second, or Suggesting' that the second floor get taken out in the renovation. The material in that and possibly the roof should be taken out in a way that could be reused. It may bring the cost of the building down and the final construction of the building down to a better price for you. 'And the other thing is just in general the building needs to be taken down and once the roof is removed, it should be cared for in such a way that no greater damage occurs during that time. In the repair and reuse thing, the main things that we were looking at was .the foundation. The foundation floor seems to be in good shape. The foundation itself is, it's a fairly logical, inherently strong type of structure. The forces coming in from the outside are taken up by the compression of the basement itself so it appears as though there's no structural damage at this point and that it's just, because it's such a logical structure and the foundation. It should stay that way for quite some time. The first floor deck again it's a fairly simple, 2 ½ inch thick deck boards supported by two, by the wails as well ' as two main support beams running across about a third of the way across in each case. And that may have to be beefed up a little bit in the final construction with some columns and maybe some footings in the basement. But it does appear as though it's in quite fair shape. The.floor structure being 2 ½ inches thick ~ think would be something that would once it is renovated, ~vould wear very Well for the type of use that you're looking at. So I think that's actually quite an advantage there. The exterior walls. I think the thing about that that I was struck by, I think in general the building is unique and I think that's apparently unique. I don't think any one of us have been in buildings like that. Probably not anywhere else. But I think the thing that's not apparent is the quality of the materials and the exterior materials are materials that we can't find these days. It's very hard to obtain those types of materials so I was actually very taken by the fact that if you do intend to take that building down, you ought to save those materials because they are so good. We have, in a lot of our work we actually do a lot of re-use of materials in our final products and if you have any questions about how that can be done, I can certainly talk about that because it's, we could show you examples of what it looks like. I think it conjures up some ideas of your uncle's shack in n0rthem Minnesota but it certainly isn't like that. I mean the re-use of materials can be a very beautiful thing. The utilities, from what I understand is they're in working order. Gas and electric are to the site so that's not a problem. The new construction that needs to occur on the site or the third category. The roof obviously is something that needs to be rebuilt, and I think that actually removing the flat roof and building something'that might. have a bit nicer profile would actually enhance the building quite a bit. The windows again need to be changed out. I don't think I need to go through everything but some site work needs to be done. Heating system in order to allow it to be a warming house in the winter time. Potentially a ceiling fan of some sort that might circulate air. Entry canopy. New beams for the structure of the floor. And then a couple other things. Reposition the steel hoops and rebuilding the basement stairs are something that needs to be done. Another thing actually the steel angle is something that the engineer suggested might need to be done. Again it's a structure that he has not seen before as well, and the way the load is coming down on the floor structure is something that I don't think he's confident in so we'd have to provide something there to take up the load coming down. So that kind of gets you through the pieces of the text for the assessment and then Park and Rec Commission Meeting- July 27, 1999 the last page is the cost figures that we came up with for the three years. Again the demolition, the re-use and repair and new construction. I think it's fairly apparent it should be in the same order so you can refer back and forth from one to the other. I guess just finally I would want to reiterate agai.n, I think it's a, if there's any way to preserve a building like this for historical reasons, I think it would be an important thing. And also just for the sake of we have, I think there's historical significance in the materials themselves as well because they are, they do speak to a time which occurred maybe 100 years ago so if it can be restored and repaired I think it would be a benefit to everyone. That's all I have, thank you. Howe: Paul in your experience, would we have trouble, we talked about this earlier this evening. Would we have trouble finding a contractor to rehab that if we went that route? I mean is that easy to find someone who would do that work? Paul Neseth: Well, I would think so. I think you would find you would need to find more of a craftsmen, small shop or a single person to do it. I don't think you're going to go to a larger builder, developer to find that kind of thing. I think they're not interested in that. It has to be someone who's more interested in unique. There are details that they aren't ever going to do again. Or have never done so I think you can find it. I've worked with people like that. We have a construction arm to our business and we do things like that so I know there are people' out there like that. Howe: In these estimates, how much of those are what the city could do and how 'much of the demolition work, what's included in those numbers as what we could do ourselves? Hoffman: Was it $10,000 to $15,000 for demolition that was set aside. Howe: That's our internal cost then? Hoffman: We could assume that, correct. Yes, we would want to take on that task just before the time the contractor would come on board. Work with us and they would want to make some observations during that demolition. Also we would need, a decision is made to save the house, restore it, then... Lash: Dave, do you have anything? Moes: Well yes. Just as far as kind of, the building is very unique Setting and situation here. What would it take on a I guess an annual basis then to maintain it in that same format structure, appearance, etc? It does seem like there's a lot of uniqueness to it and I'm just wondering if it has any other? Paul Neseth: I don't think there are any inherent things other than you would see on any other building. I imagine once the paint on the outside is removed, it may be resealed with some sort of a stain to let the wood show through and that may need to be done every 5 years or so. But the roof situation I would think would be no different than any other. And the foundation I think is fine so I don't think there are great costs in that. Park and Rec Commission Meeting - July 27, 1999 Lash: Rod. Franks: I'm wondering about the second floor. Are we, are you considering removing the second floor back because of structural problems or was that done in consideration of keeping the cost of the rehab project more in line? Paul Neseth: That was actually more presented to us and that's kind of the way we went into it. Assuming that that was going to be done. And. it seems like a reasonable idea. Franks: Did you find that the supporting structure for the second floor deck had failed or was it just? Paul Neseth: No, I don't think it's failed. I think it's just a matter of do you need a second floor for the use that you're looking at? And it's probably no. I would think it would be for a lot of reasons security for just the use and traffic and how much square footage you have. Do you really want to take it up with a stair going up to a second floor? You don't gain that much in what you use up so I think it's a reasonable thing to think of taking that second floor out. I think the interior structure would be a much more dynamic structure as well. I think it would be, the interest of being on the first floor and looking 'ap at a personally framed ceiling could be really nice. Lash: Okay, I just have two questions. Did you have something in mind for the roof?. I know the shape you have in mind...but as far as materials. What did you have in mind for the roof?. Paul Neseth: It may come down to cost I would think in the end. Lash: Because it's going to be more visible. I mean now you can't see what's out there so it doesn't matter. Paul Neseth: I guess I was thinking more of something like a, if you can do a cedar shake roof or if you can do a metal roof. Of all things, you know you certainly could spend for a copper roof and it would be beautiful. So I think it may be; a, it's hard for me to throw things out because I think it's a collaborative effort in trying to fig~re out what this thing's going to look like. Lash: You didn't really have anything? Paul Neseth: Not, no preconceived notions but I think what we would try to do is not put on an asphalt shingled roof because I think that wouldn't add to it. I think that would detract. So yeah, it would be something that would be more visible and more appealing. Lash: So if we went ahead with this...got going what we presented was a more formalized drawing and specifications and stuff showing exactly what's being used and how it's going to look in the end. Park and Rec Commission Meeting - July 27, 1999 Paul Neseth: Before you start construction? Absolutely. Franks: Can I follow up on that? We have a low estimate for the roof at like $18,000 and the high estimate at around 24. When you kind of develop those types of estimates, can you give me like some range of what the material would be? Paul Neseth: I don't think it's, are you saying that the low might be an asphalt roo~ Franks: Well that's what I'm wondering. When I look at the high and I look at the low, you know some are just about double and I'm wondering well what were we thinking about when you did low and what were we thinking about when you did the high and you brought up the roof so I thought that would just be a good example. Paul Neseth: In the roof situation I think it's, of course your most expensive's going to be some sort of a metal roof, copper roof or something like that. And then something less than that would be a cedar shake roof or something. When we were talking with the engineer about the cost on these things, he suggested the estimate for the refraining of the roof would be about $3,000 and I think it became obvious to me that that's the difference between an architect and an architect is the engineer's going to replace what's there and we want to do something that has a visual impact as well. And so that's, again you could get something. You could repair it. Build a new roof for maybe under 10. But I think if you want something that can add to the look of the building and be a positive thing, I think it would cost more. Lash: Can I just throw out a question. We can never do it with this project but down the road, Rod had asked about the second floor and I had wondered if it'd be possible structurally wise to put like a cat walk up at the second floor. It would be open but you'd have a. Paul Neseth: Sure. Lash: An area that people could go up and look out... Paul Neseth: Go outside of the building? Lash: No, not necessarily. Inside. Paul Neseth: Yes. Absolutely it could be. Yeah. It would need to be, you wouldn't re-use any of the structure that's there. You'd have to rebuild the whole thing. Lash: Fred. Berg: When I'm sitting down on the first floor and I look up, what do you envision my seeing on the inside? As far as the roof is concerned, the ceiling. Is it just going to be sprayed or do you see beams or? Park and Rec Commission Meeting - July 27, 1999 Paul Neseth: I would think you'd see the structure itself with beams or, ideally even you know potentially the bottom of the roof. The roof system itself. The sheeting itself. I don't know that you need a great deal of insulation up there and that can certainly detract from how much you can see of that. So I think, I guess I would want it to be visually appealing. For one you get into the structure and it is, it's unending. 'I mean it's so simple, the skin is so simple that I think a contrast in something that might be a little bit more delicate and crafted in the ceiling might be a nice, ...the position of two different things. Berg: Maybe this is a stupid question but I can tell by your presentation that you're interested in preserving the historical authenticity of the building too. In your mind, with the improvements that you're talking about,' would that still be achieved? Paul Neseth: I think it's, there's no precedent for what this building is so historically it's not a, I think preserving it in it's current form is not necessarily preserving it. I think the idea of preserving it as a round building I think is preserving it. And preserving the materials that are there is also preserving it. So to go back and say that we have to, as you would in preservation work in a main street or something, I think replicating what's there is not necessary but taking the positive features that are there and then enhancing them I think is really what we would suggest. Berg: Okay. That's all I have. Lash: Jay... Karlovich: My only question is, can you just give us a little bit of narration. I love to watch This Old House. I think a lot of folks have the fear that we'll get into this thing and it will end up costing $160,000. When you build other shelters you know what they're going to cost .... or the rest of the commission on how...you are on these estimates or are we going to possibly get a contractor to big on the contract and have nothing but change orders and problems? I know you can't guarantee that but I think it's a fear that everybody has. Paul Neseth: I think the unknown, the big unknown that you have is that no one's worked on a building like this. And so that's, but that you would know right at the very beginning from your bids that come in. The thing that you have going for you is that once this thing is, once demolition has taken place, there are so few elements left that could go wrong or that could be, you know that could require change orders, that I think it would be very straight forward at that point. You're left, once you remove the roof and the second floor, you're left with the foundation, the connection between that and the first floor and the walls and then that's about it. I mean it's fairly, it's inherently a very strong building. So I think once you, the fear of it being, going over cost would take place only at the very beginning when your bids come in from all the contractors. Because that's where you would say, that's where they would say you know I'm not sure about this. I've never done this. So they might cover themselves at that point. But as you go fop, yard I think it would be very smooth I think at that. Karlovich: Thank you. Park and Rec Commission Meeting - July 27, 1999. Lash: Okay, anyone else? ' Franks: Todd, I just have, that just brings up another question but if this is approved and goes for bid and the bids come back from contractors and they' re just unacceptable to us, and what kind of options do we have at that point? Hoffman: Rebid it. Redesign it. Elect to dismantle it at that time. You know change, typically what happens is you take an appraisal of why do they come in over bid. Was it the, did you miss the project? Did you miss the mark? Or did you just bid it at such a time when the market was so high do you make a decision then well, do we-have to redesign this bid package .or do we just sit on it and rebid it at another time when it's more competitive. We. go out and find some bidders that we think would bid on the project so. The other element to this whole proposal is that currently you only have $40,000 in the bank and you need to request of' the City Council the additional $40,000 in your 2000 CIP to make it happen so. That also need to be...of the City Council as well. Lash: Okay. Any other questions? This was a very well done report. Thank you .... to address the commission. Can you come up to the podium and state your name and address so we have it for the record. Janet Carlson: Hi. I'm Janet Carlson. I live at 4141 Kings Road. He was just saying that they only have $40,000. I guess I would like to see the building stay. That has been there for oh 50- 60 years I suppose.' It's an old water tower that the original people that lived there moved in. And all the neighbor kids that used to live there, all went to Sunday School on Saturday...for everything but I guess my question is how much would it cost to put the roof, you know a new roof on to hold it and maybe fix the windows. At least now until we get some more money. I'd really like to see it stay. I used to live in that house at one time. And it's just really a very neat house. ! don't know I guess, and as far as that second floor, does the second floor have to come out? Because if you took the second floor out, wouldn't that be for the balance, I mean I don't know. Paul Neseth:...' Janet Carlson: No, but it does now. Yeah. Paul Neseth: ... Janet Carlson: No, okay. Hoffman: The roof would hold it up top if you took the second floor out. The issue of the second floor is what do you use it for. In a public building you have a narrow stairway that goes up the side of the building. Janet Carlson: Would you have restrooms in there? Park and Rec Commission Meeting - July 27, 1999 Hoffrnan: No. Portable restrooms on the outside. If we add plumbing costs into this, then we go up another $20,000 to add plumbing into this building and we would have heat and lights and for a warming house...neighborhood gathering for the focal point for a neighborhood picnic or. ,. playground programs. Janet Carlson: How much does it cost a year for the outhouse now? Hoffman: Minimal cost for that park. $200-$300 a year. Janet Carlson: That's when they get knocked over: Hoffman: They get knocked over quite a bit. Janet Carlson: Yeah. Hoffman: If it's determined that we want to move forward, we want to secure that roof so we keep the water out but we've gone down this, as you know, talking about trying to save it part way and it's really, if you understood what Paul was saying, if we take this thing down to what we need to start over with, it's nothing but the block foundation and wails. That's it. And if you want to save the second floor, the second floor would stay in... Lash: Okay, thank you. Dave Hughes: My name is Dave Hugest and I live at 1780 Lake Lucy Lane. And ~ had the unique experience of working for the Harstad Company under the auspices of your Park' and Rec Director in clearing that site and I had my eyes on that little building because that's a U.S. military grade number one Douglas Fir. You cannot possibly buy anything better at that time in history and you wouldn't even find it today at any place. I had many, many people interested in that lumber and notwithstanding what you decide to do, you could probably 'sell the lumber at any time you decide to get out and have a very fair amount of money. Including the people who built the steamboat. They wanted the lumber for that. That's the quality of lumber it was. So it is a very unique structure indeed. You happen to have a unique individual here in your city by the name of Gary Reed who also happens to be an individual contractor. Some of you may have... He's been in the community for a second generation and he works for himself, maybe with a helper. Amd what makes him unique is that he worked for that man on these Water towers when he was a young-man so he's intimately familiar with that structure and it's repair and so on so I don't know if he would be interested. He's in his late 50's I think. He might not.care to take on something that big but he might be somebody to contact if you should decide to go ahead with it. Lash: Thank you. Peter Moe: My name is Peter Moe and I live at 7161 Minnewashta Parkway. I've lived there since 1979 and I've been in that neighborhood for quite a while and I've always just thought of the round house as kind of an odd little house. And there was people living there and one of the 10 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - July 27, 1999 daughters went to school with my kids and I guess my involvement with the park since the beginning. I've been involved with the park since the first ideas were propoSed was the recreational parts of it. It's already a beautiful site. Beautiful lake views and the beach and my family used the park on a daily basis but that is definitely what I would rather have the city spend money on is the tennis courts. We've been trying to play tennis at Cathcart and been turned away two out of the last three times with people using it and having to find other tennis courts. We need that. You know the improvements that are at the park are grea.t but there's more things that need to be done that are in the long term master plan list. Planting trees. Other things like that. I look at the Arboretum and...building and grounds and we have a lot of old buildings at the horiculture research center that are about the same age as this and we're constantly spending money on those buildings although we're trying to keep them in with all the things working. I think the plan here with striping it basically is certainly going to be lower cost but old buildings are real expensive to maintain and you always find unexpected surprises has been our experience so. My family and I love the park. We go there almost every day. We like the beach. We're looking for the other recreational facilities and we prefer a modem Structure that might cost less money. That could be a cold warming house too with that big exposed area. And if I picture a conical roof on it or something, I think of a grain bin but that's maybe just me but that's my opinion, thank you. Lash: Anyone else? Ed Kling: Hi, my name's Ed Kling and I live at 4169 Red Oak Land and I'd just like to ask first off, is there a deadline that you have as far as making a decision on this building? Lash: We need to mm our budget in, our propsed budget to the City Council by August or so, yeah. And included in our 2000 budget is funding to do this project. So yeah, we need to make a decision so that we can decide if we want it in our 2000 budget or not. Ed Kling: August what? Lash: By the end of July. So by August 1 st, yeah. Ed Kling: So we're talking about 3 days. Okay. Just give you a little background of what I think of Chanhassen and what I think of this area. I just moved from Maple Grove. I've been living in my house for a month and I looked from anywhere's from St. Michael down to Savage. Probably put about 5,000, 6,000, 7,000 miles on my car in a three year period looking at all these communities and Chanhassen was the community I chose because of it's location and it's charm. Having, coming to the area we looked at a lot of different developments and you know the development we chose was the development fight behind the Roundhouse Park. The first thing that I noticed about the park area was the building. My father grew up on a farm so I'm familiar with these type of buildings. My grandmother's silo has been sitting there with basically no repair for well over 100 years and the building is built exactly the same way. The only difference is it's made out of cement instead of wood. The cement is actually failing apart in that building though. But looking at the structure of the building, I have friends that are in the building trades and I have a friend who is, he could probably teach BobVila some tricks on how to build. He 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - July 27, 1999 took a 1937 house, dug out the building, went to Ernst Movers and jacked this house up and made a colonial out of it. I told him he should have Bob Vila over there but he laughed at about the whole deal but bottom line here is I've been working with my friends for about the last 20 years, on and off jobs so without being a tradesman. I'm not a tradesman by work but I've spent literally thousands of hours on jobs with these guys and I've learned things that probably the average tradesman wouldn't understand if they're just framer. And I can look at your list here and I have a friend who's a paint contractor. I've been painting on and off for the last'20 years with him. I can see fight now that there are some different aspects Of your job here that I think could be dramatically reduced if you just look at the cost of the materials and the cost of the labor. My friend who is a paint contractor, his job's typically run approximately 10 times the amount of the material. 10% of the.job is materials. 10 times that is the labor and the reason why is because he has to pay social security twice. Federal and state tax and by the time he gets done with the job, you know he comes out with something he can live off of. But looking at some of these figures, and like I say, some of them I don't really understand because there are certain, you can't know everything but the roof, I can see where that's going to be some expensive figures but I built a deck on the back of my house and I put $2,000 to $3,000 into it in materials alone. I had some of the certain things subbed out but I did most of it myself. And I had people tell me I had a' $25,000 deck off the back of my deck and I put. S3,000 worth of materials into it. Another example is the paint. Exterior finishes. $2,000 to $3,000. I could realistically with my experience know that I could buy a very high quality latex paint, which is really the paint qualities are very good fight now. They've come a long way. I could probably paint the exterior of that paint material for probably $200. There's going to need to be some refinishing that's either going to need to be water blasted or sand blasted or both. I don't see that being $1,000. So the point being here is I think that if there's enough interest in this building, and you can see the inherent value of the building and I think another thing is that we have to look at. One of the reasons I left Maple Grove was because it was growing too fast. I didn't like the way the community was growing. It didn't have the value of an 'aesthetically pleasing community. And I see that changing critically as time goes on. So that's why I came down here. Moved down here. I think if we start to change our philosophies of thought just because it's easier to do something, then I think what we're doing is we're really not paying attention to what you know, what our environment is and how we're addressing our lifestyle. And since I've been down here for the last month I've noticed that my blood pressure's a lot lower and it really is. I'm not kidding. And I live by the lake. I take my kids down there every other day. I love it here and I can't say enough about how I feel. If this job is going to take $80,000, my friend put up a colonial for tess than that and that was because of labor. Now my suggestion would be to open bids and I'm sure that there are some very talented people that would be willing to take a look at some of these jobs. So my suggestion would be to see if there's a chance that we can circulate some of these bidding jobs and see if we can get a quick response back as to what we can, how we can reduce some of these costs because I think there are some neighbors, I know there are some of my neighbors that have suggested that they would be willing to contribute their time and if we can get some funds delegated for these jobs, I think you'd probably find that you'd have a lot of people who are very talented in the neighborhood that would be able to do that. I don't know what you're looking for, but I think it's a very doable thing and I think this figure of $86,000, I know we can reduce that to a reasonable. The other thing is, if you tear the building down for $40,000 and there's $15,000 demolition fee, you're up to $45,000, almost up to 12 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - July 27, 1999 $60,000 in itself just to get the building demolished. At that point you're very close to, and like I say, I could easily see us shaving off $15,000 to make it a wash. But then that goes back to you know how I feel and I think it's part of the community that when you start to change the look of your community, then I just don't see that here and I guess I would expect everybody to look at what their, you know how they truly feel inside about it-and you know what they feel about as far as their community. And I guess that's all I have to say. Thank you. Lash: So you'd like us to preserve it. Ed Kling: I would definitely like to see you preserve it. Lash: I just wanted to make sure. Okay. Anyone else in the audience? Okay. I'I1 open it up for commissioner comments. Why don't we start with Jay. Karlovich: Caught me off guard. The last meeting we had I waffled back and forth and expressed my opinion and I was moved by one of my fellow commissioners but I am behind this project. I think we shoUld go forward with it and ask for additional funds in our year 2000 budget. Lash: Okay. Fred. Berg: I really don't have anything to add over what I've said before either. I support this with as much vigor.as I can muster. Lash: Okay. I feel the same.' Rod. Franks: Well I was also a waffler last time. Last once when we discussed this. I'm more convinced, I'm not completely convinced. I remember when we moved into the community in '91, a little more than a month ago but the round house was one of the first structures we noticed and it's certainly something that makes the city unique. I smiled when you were talking about Maple Grove because where I work there's a little Chanhassen-Maple Grove competition going on about which'is the more livable city. We know who the winner is. So in that regard I just would hate to see those certain features which are unique, just a part of our landscape. At the same time though, I know our budget is tight and we have a lot of demands on what it is that we want to provide as far as equipment and recreational opportunities and so we're looking to go above what was in the referendum by double and we request that that be approved by the City Council. I think that we understand that their call is to be as fiscally responsible as possible so I'm weighing those thing and I guess, you know what I'm really wondering is, is there a way that we can approve the project and word the proposal as such that the contingency for the money is that we get an appropriate bid. I don't know exactly how we would. Lash: ...did come in just over budget and... Franks: Well I guess what I'm thinking is up, you know we're talking about a kind of, make the request more palatable I guess is what I'm considering as we're saying authorize up to another 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting- July 27, 1999 $40,000 instead of saying...that we're trying to put together this $80,000 package. I think that they'll balk. We can approve it. Hoffman: It will be a couple of weeks before I'll be talking to the council about your recommendation and they're going 'to be in the same spot. They're going to understand that $80,000 is hopefully what it takes and council is typically more direct in it's $80,000 or nothing so if you want to make the request that up to another $40,000. There's some seasoned council members on there as well. They've been around. 'They've seen that... They'll smell that out so you just give it to them as it is and say here's what we want to do and they can read the report. They'll understand it. Berg: But we're not talking $40,000 additional tax dollars. Hoffrnan: Correct. Berg: We're talking $40,000 out of our 2000, our year 2000 CIP. Hoffman: Absolutely.- Berg: Which I think is an important distinction to make.' Karlovich: The one thing I would like the record to reflect, and I don't think there was more discussion about it, was the proximity of the building to where the skating rink is going to be and there needs to be some type of warming house structure there. That's something this building would provide and during our tour today I was at least swayed by that we either have to do that or we have to bring...satellite building. Franks: While I'd like to see the second floor but I a~ee, take it out. It's a little' claustrophobic in there with that, on that first floor. Lash: I think all the windows are... Franks: In the interest of maintaining some uniqueness in our community I'm in favor of the restoration project. Moes: ][ evidentally missed the tour today. I was just checking my agenda here too. Hoffman: I just called today. This morning and left messages for everyone. Moes: Okay. I guess from my perspective I appreciate the longevity of the building and respect people's thoughts and input as to how long it's been around and possibly the reassessment of it and restructuring it or bringing it back in it's former mode. At the same time I guess I hear and respect the people that are looking for additional playground facilities. You know there's a couple that we've seen that have commented on you know more of the pavillion type structure that gives them both the coverage and the accessibilitY to picnic facilities as well as even more of 14 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - July 27, 1999 an open area. And if I look at it from a I guess a fiscal perspective, looking at $80,000 and understanding that it isn't additional tax dollars. At the same time thought I balance that off with you know what other playground facilities enhancements could be purchased, acquired for those same dollars, I start thinking through as to which one will provide more of a benefit to the community in total and which will get more use from it. And understanding you know Jay the warming house thought there, it would certainly provide that capability for them. However I know we've also got the portable warming houses that could very easily be put into place and utilized as well. Where I'm at now is I'm leaning more towards a demolition and utilizing the money for additional playground facilities. Long term strategy. Long term planning...those type of features. Lash: Okay. Mike. Howe: I think due to it's uniqueness we should keep it. I worry a bit about finding a tradesman who can do this and on budget. Maybe it's something you do over the winter or the slow months but I do think, even though it is our money technically and not tax money, we've got to be careful about what we get into bUt I do think it's definitely worth keeping so I would say full steam- ahead. Lash: Okay. Does anyone else have anything else they want to throw in? Call for a vote. Okay, would someone like to make a motion? .- . o Franks: Fred. Berg: I'm trying to think, yeah. I'd like some help. I move that we recommend to the City Council that the round house at Roundhouse Park be refurbished at'a cost of, at a maximum cost of $80,000. Lash: We need to differentiate the two, half of it being, no? Okay. Is that all we're going to need? Okay, is there a second to that motion? Karlovich: I second it. Berg moved, Karlovich seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council authorize up to $80,000 for the refurbishing of the round, house struture at Roundhouse Park. All voted in favor, except for Moes who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 6 to 1. Lash: And Dave, do you want to say anything more about your reasons? You were pretty clear. Moes: No, I think I was pretty clear~ I'm much more a proponent of playground facilities for kids and everything so. Lash: Okay, motion carries. Thanks for coming and for your comments. 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - July 27, 1999 Hoffinan: I think we have a couple of the neighbors here that mentioned other facilities. I'm interested, as the commission moves forward in planning for those other facilities, maybe we should have just a brief discussion on that. The master plan would call out tennis courts, a hockey rink/inline skate rink, Phase II of the playground. As far as the master plan, that would be it. The location for the tennis court, the basketball pad was just put in with the feeling that ' that would last for certainly a number of years at a minimal cost. $6,000 to put that in versus $60,000 for a tennis court. While you saved up, went elsewhere and spent your money elsewhere for a while and then came back out to Roundhouse. 'Roundhouse Park to date, I haven't added it all up but it's nearing the half million dollar mark in a neighborhood park for what you have- there to date. Hockey rinks, inline skate. Big chunk of money. $100,000, more or less. And then Phase II ofplayground, $25,000. So if we, as a commission if you can know what the neighborhood wants next, we can be focusing on that as you move forWard. Does anybody have comments on that? If tennis was the big one or. Audience: ... Lash: Does that have to be there or could we move it? Hoffman: Well that's the best location for it. It was the only other place to put it would be farther back to the west, the open play field. That site was ~aded specifically for a-double tennis. court. - Lash: Then we lose the basketball. Hoffrnan: Well then your basketball would go inside the tennis court with hoops.inside. You'd have a combination... Karlovich: If we do Phase II of the playground, do we have to do the same'color scheme? Lash: We wanted an ugly yellow. That's kind of an ugly yellow. Hoffman: Trees we'll plant as they become available. We typically do a lot of tree spading in the fall and the turf is established now where it can handle a spade coming into the park so. Lash: You figure people would want tennis first? Audience: Well I can't say... Lash: What do you think is the feel for the hockey? Audience:... Lash: Okay, thanks .... I think we'd plan on starting, if it goes into the budget and is approved by the City Council, we'd be looking at next summer, wouldn't we? 16 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - July 27, 1999 Hoffrnan: Well earlier than that. We'd want to get, we'll receive approval of the budget. If they go ahead and approve the $40,000 additional money in December at some point for the final allocation. So then we would want to finalized plans and specifications and get those out probably in the first of February. Some time frame like that. Bidding and then allow the contractor to start at their own schedule. Earlier ir/the year typically the better off you are so. Anytime we go over $25,000 we're a public bid... Lash: Well what about the stuff that the staff would have to do to just secure the roof and all that, when would that, that would have to happen.. Hoffman: Yeah, as soon as we get an indication from the council or they approve of it, we can go out there and start shoring up the waterproofing. Audience:... Lash: Well we do. Thanks for coming tonight. PRESENTATION OF THE PROPOSED SKATE PARK PLAN. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report.on this item. Hoffman: Do we have any audience members? Lash: Yes, do we have any? Tim Hughes: My name is Tim Hughes and I live at the same address he does. But I'm not prepared to say anything to you guys but I just hope you make a comfortable decision because I know ! wouldn't feel comfortable spending $15,000 if it was coming out of my own pocket and I know this is a set aside budget for you guys. And I know I would use the facilities and greatly appreciate them so if you guys can put that in your budget that'd be great. So that's about it. Berg: You have friends that would use it too I assume. Tim Hughes: Yeah, lots of them. Lash: Thanks Tim. David Hughes: ...and I guess you folks all recognize there's bicycles...ride bicycle whether you've got a bicycle trail or not. And runners are going to run whether you've got a running trail or not, and skateboarders are going to skate whether you've got a skate park or not. And it drives the merchants crazy so, and it drives the police department crazy I'm sure plus creates some safety hazards so I know you folks want to do this as much as young people want to do it. It just makes sense that you put it under control and supervision so that the darker side elements don't get out there and raise havoc in a way that isn't wholesome. And I just, I'm thrilled that you as a group are considering this. Sort of ground breaking. It's a new sport I guess and it's ground 17 Todd Hofiinan sub' 3/5.98 Roundhouse Park Meeting Hi Todd. Just found out last night that a good f?iend of mine from CA is coming over to our house tonight so I won't be at your meeting. These are the things I wa's hoping would be considered during the meeting, ( my lack of knowledge of the cost of various projects has biased my opinion): 1. I believe the development of the lake amenities is near the top of priorities. Items such as a satellite (on the lake side of the road) for the beach users and fishing dock is close to mandatory. I hope there is sufficient money to get battu'ooms in the Roundhouse also. .~other beach item is the installation of a "barrier" (low stnxtbs, short fence, etc.) between the road and the beach. If we have an initial "bmTier" then it will become a natural habit to go to the cross walk to cross the road. 2. A clean picnic area and picnic tables should be available. I am not sure of your park policy but I personally would like to see a couple o£ fire rings axrailable. Even a minimal number of tables would help, more can be added when the usage increases. 3. Recommend a fence go up on both the north and south side of the beach, a fence Oll the north side. west of the road. should be considered sometime in the near fitture. 4. I don't have a clue on the cost of playground equipment but we should have at least some swings this 3.'ear, plus what ever more we can afford. 5. I have left out the hockey rink. black topping, maybe a ball backstop, because I assuIne these are x.'e~5, expensive and we can get more park interest by getting equipment that a higher number of people can use. I definitely want to see at least a sheet of ice and a wamfing h.ouse available tbr next winter. C Oll]lllents: I would like to see a sign erected that identifies this as a cib' park and some basic roles. Rationale for this is--There is a concern about loose dogs, probably because of the way the trail has been abused. People run and walk their dogs along the trail and the doo~s are not leashed or under the owner's control. People also let their dogs go up onto lawns which can get a home owner's dog very..' excited--- especially.' at 6:00 A.M.. Letting their dogs poop (and not picking it up) along and on the trail is also very common. I think we should t~x., to nip these potential problems right at the start. The good news is we have these great amenities so we can xvork these problems'. To: City of Chanhassen Todd Hoffman, Director of Park and Recreation 7/14/99 RECEIVED Regarding: Renovation of the" Roundhouse" JUL 1 5 1999 CITY OF CH^NH^SSEN Dear Todd, We are new residents to this area and really enjoy the parkway and lake Minnewashta neighborhood. However, we could not figure out what the ~ound building was used for or what significant meaning it had to the area. The building does not add any particular character to the park but rather it blocks out the best view in town which is of course~-e:i~a~e'~tseN5. Perhaps the council could consider spending some of the money that would have been used in the renovation of the building into putting up a small canopy type structure ( as many parks do ) on a concrete slab. There could be a couple of picnic tables there for families to sit and enjoy the lake view and watch their children play on the park playground. Please consider this a vote from us to demolish the" Roundhouse ". Si~cere ly. 4029 Hallgren Ct. P.S. We would appreciate a copy of the assessment report. Nancy and Jim, 10/12/96 This is a first cut of the prbposed plaque for the Round House. Please review and add/delete/change as you wish. Let me know what you like and then maybe we can get together to finalize. Dave Headla This Round House structure was 0rigillfilly used as_ a ~a~ supply,tank for ~t~ steam locomottves. As t~me passed, the water tankiwas ~..~ed out a!eng ;:eth the steam engme,; Mr. Benjamin Lane's company disassembled this large structure and finding the wood (Douglas Fi;) in excellent cortdition reassembled it on this site. It is believed the "Round House was;assembled ~ ~n the early 1950s. · · ¢ · No tax or building permit information available to get_assembly date. · Wood was believed to be Cyprus (as told to me by Ben Lane). However a Joe Stralev took sOme wood fibers to the University of Minnesota and their analyses plus the length of the planks and the hardness of the wood is convincing that the wood is Douglas fir. · Very difficult to get an assembly date, but general consensus is it was in the early i950s. · Inputs from the Leaches (Dorothy and Roy), Tom Mann, Chuck and Helen Lawson, the Haneys, Oscar Anderson, and the Connors. John Ziegler did not respond and I could not find Ben's daughter Lois Kinzler