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1h. Planning Commission Minutes dated September 21, 1994CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING SEPTEMBER 21, 1994 Chairman Scott called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. I MEMBERS PRESENT: Joe Scott, Jeff Farmakes, Ron Nutting and Matt Ledvina ' MEMBERS ABSENT: Diane Harberts, Nancy Mancino and, Ladd Conrad STAFF PRESENT: Kate Aanenson, Planning Director; John Rask, Planner I; and Jill ' Kimsal, Forestry Intern S f ' ADOPT RESOLUTION FINDING MODIFIED PLAN FOR TAX INCREMENT FINANCING DISTRICT NO. 2 -1 CONSISTENT WITH THE PLANS FOR DEVELOPMENT OF THE CITY OF CHANHASSEN. Scott: What that really means is that we've created a tax increment district to fund by the use of selling bonds a roadway and some other public improvements in the area that's near the new elementary school, which is that thing that's being built on Highway 5. So staff report please. ' Kate Aanenson presented the staff report on this item. Scott: I think perhaps the one question would be, why are we, I mean we've already seen this and the reason why we're doing this is so that we can make sure that we have enough bonding capability to cover what we believe the expenditures to be for the improvements, ' land acquisition and administrative costs. We may or may not sell that many bonds but we're just trying to cover ourselves on the high side. Is that in essence what we're doing here? Aanenson: That's correct. Scott: Okay. Comments, questions from commissioners. Ledvina: Your opening or the second paragraph says, the only reason this item is before you is that our bonding attorney requires the city to modify the plan by documenting that the ' projects are moving ahead and the city is selling bonds to pay for them. What are the modifications? I guess I. ' Aanenson: Well the thing that we're approving is to include it as part of the tax increment district is ... we're calling a recreation center. 1 Scott: Oh, we're going to own it too? Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Aanenson: Yes. Ledvina: As part of the school. Aanenson: Right. In that package. And part of that we also included the construction for th frontage road that will access it. Ledvina: Okay, that's fine. Farmakes: But that's the gym and pool that you're talking about. Ledvina: No. No pool. Scott: No, no. This is basketball courts, racquetball courts, meeting rooms. Yeah, so it's. No ice. No pool, no ice. Okay. Any other questions? Ledvina: Was that essentially the modification? Aanenson: That was the modification. Ledvina: And the attorney, this is driven by the attorney, is that correct? Aanenson: ...it was in the original plan... Ledvina: That's fine, thanks. Scott: Any other questions or comments? Okay. Can I have a motion please? Ledvina: I would move that the Planning Commission, are we adopting this resolution? Aanenson: Correct. Ledvina: Okay. I would move that the Planning Commission adopt Resolution No. 94 -3 finding the modification to the tax increment financing district No. 2 -1 and 2 -2 and development district No. 2 are consistent with the City of Chanhassen's Comprehensive Plan. Scott: Can I have a second please? Farmakes: Second. 2 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 ir Scott: It's been moved and seconded that we adopt this resolution. Is there an discussion? , P Y Ledvina moved, Farmakes seconded that the Planning Commission adopt Resolution ' #94 -3 (Attachment #2) finding the modification to Tax Increment Financing District No. 2 -1 and 2 -2; and Development District No. 2 are consistent with the City of ' Chanhassen's Comprehensive Plan. All voted in favor and the motion carried. REVIEW SIGNAGE FOR THE CHANHASSEN RETAIL SITE. PERKINS AND TACO ' BELL. Kate Aanenson presented the staff report on this item. ' Farmakes: I have some questions. I missed the previous meeting when this came up. On ' the third page of the packet. There's a schematic elevation for the right side, left side elevations. Also front and rear. Typically these buildings have large stripes on them. I don't see that indicated. ' Aanenson: We did ask them to bring a color rendering showing that ...Are you talking about Perkins? ' Farmakes: No. I'm talking about Taco Bell. Also the colorations. I've seen some of the new Taco Bell stuff that's kind of a purple and magenta and I'm seeing this as yellow and ' red. Have the colors been specified in the original one or is this part of the PUD? Aanenson: It's part of, I don't believe we... ' Don Palmquist: Good evening. My name is Don Palmquist with Ryan Companies. I am representing this development. I don't know that I can specifically answer your question ' regarding the color but I can answer questions regarding which of the faces will contain the signage on the Taco Bell parcel. What's shown in your packet is signage on four faces. They have agreed to reduce that to two faces... They will be showing signs on the north and ' east faces of that building... Farmakes: So that would be the right side elevation and the. ' Don Palmquist: The right side and the front side. We will not have signage on the rear or I the left side. Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 ' Farmakes: Do you have a schematic of some sort with the striping and how you are planning P g Y P g on painting the paint and... stucco. Don Palm uist: I don't have color renderings. I guess I wasn't aware that that was a q g g ' requirement for this evening. The only elevations I would have available would be the full sized blue line drawings of the reductions that you have... ' Farmakes: The reason I bring it up is because we've had discussions in regards to the typical addition to signage on franchises where the large banning of striped colors have been added to the facia to these buildings and there's been some discussion in regards to the Highway 5 ' issue and I think in regards to signage. Whether or not these constitute signage additions or whether or not it's architecture. Typically examples are Amoco, Holiday. To a lesser extent say Target where they I think substituted file for the paint stripe or plexiglass... Some of the ' other Taco Bells I've seen in town have large striping additions and I would like to find out what their intentions are with that. ' Don Palmquist: Well ... answer that question. My understanding though is that the materials used on the wall... ' Farmakes: So it's... stucco that's being described then? It covers the entire, except for the back of the signage itself. ' Aanenson: Yeah. There is stucco... Scott: Are you talking about the pre - fab...area here? Farmakes: Yeah. Typically... ' Scott: How do we proceed on that? Can we put a condition in and move it along or? Aanenson: ...these colors were consistent with the colors that were... ' Farmakes: Oka so if this thin is erected and the ad these in y, g y d ese step gs that are typically part ' of Taco Bell, is that a fielder's choice on the part of the developer or is this something that then is not allowed under the PUD? In other words, is this signage that's being proposed? Aanenson: Right. This is the signage... Farmakes: So there is no striping? ' 4 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Aanenson: Correct. Scott: Any other questions or comments? Ledvina: I had one question now. I know that we're reviewing the Perkins and Taco Bell. In the staff report it says one free standing pole sign shall be permitted for Target. You're just talking about the Target PUD? You're not. Aanenson: Yeah. This PUD ... lots. The Target and the three outlots. One... Ledvina: Okay, these are the other buildings, right? Aanenson: Right. Ledvina: Okay. Aanenson: So there's an unknown one that... Ledvina: So there's no more Target, there will be no more Target signage? Aanenson: Correct. Ledvina: Okay. And then the rock faced CMU. Could you describe that a little bit or what is that type of material? I guess I'm not familiar with that... Farmakes: That was something else. That was a fancy word for stucco. Ledvina: Okay. Is this another fancy word for stucco, CMU? Don Palmquist: I'm not sure what the acronym stands for. Ledvina: Do you know? Scott: Would that be, when I think of rock face, instead of putting brick on, it's some sort of a ... or something like that. Ledvina: I don't know. I don't know what that is. I mean rockface CMU, I have no idea. Aanenson: It's our understanding that it will be... 5 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Ledvina: Similar material to the Target sign? I mean the pylon. Aanenson: Yes. Ledvina: Okay. So that was the intent that this material is tying into the other material. Don Palmquist: ...I'm not sure what that really stands for. Ledvina: Okay. Well I think we should, if that's the intent, then I think we should say that since nobody knows what this stuff is. Scott: Put that in as a condition? Ledvina: Yeah. Well how do we say that? The base of the signage shall be consistent with, the base material shall be consistent with the other signage with the PUD. Is that adequate? Aanenson: Yes. Ledvina: Okay. Scott: Okay, any other? Ledvina: Well I guess just to talk about Jeff's concern as it relates to the band. The color band and things like that. Farmakes: She addressed that. Ledvina: Okay. I guess you know whether that represents signage or not I don't know. Farmakes: I'm still wrestling with that but since I wasn't here for the previous meetings I question whether or not it... Ledvina: So the bands are not going to be there? The color bands are not on this building? Farmakes: They're not part of the elevations that were submitted. Ledvina: Okay. Farmakes: Is Perkins. 0 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Ir Aanenson: They have... I Farmakes: Okay. Do they also have, are we talking backlit awnings? I believe on the ' Perkins over in Minnetonka they have backlit awnings where Perkins is on the awnings itself. Backlit at night and I'm wondering if that's part of this. ' Don Palmquist: No, that is not part of what they're contemplating. Farmakes: On your sign the coloration is shown like an off cream. Is that white? ' Don Palmquist: On the pylon sign? I Farmakes: Yeah, I'm looking at both the pylon and monument. It appears to be the same color. I'm just wondering is that white flex or is that a cream or what is it? ' Don Palmquist: It's more of a cream as opposed to a white. Farmakes: Is the third restaurant in that PUD agreement fast food or sit down? ' Kate Aanenson's answer was not picked up on the tape. ' Farmakes: Can be. There was a cap on two? Aanenson: Two fast foods... ' Scott: With the issue that we had about aligning the ingress and egress point into the three ' restaurant area, was that resolved? Did you see plans that lined it up with the Target? Ledvina: It's right here. ' Scott: Well I'm looking at that and I was going. ' Ledvina: Does that depict the parking and the entrance arrangement or is it different from that? ...that issue is resolved, okay. , Scott: Okay, fine. Ledvina: I don't want to complicate. Okay, I would move that the Planning Commission ' recommend approval of signage package for the Chanhassen Retail Center as presented by the applicant with the conditions specified as part of the PUD and an additional condition ' 7 .' Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 ' identifying that the base materials of the signage shall be consistent with other monument and pylon signs within the PUD. ' Scott: Is there a second? I Farmakes: Second. ' Scott: It's been moved and seconded that we adopt the staff recommendation. Now is there any discussion? ' Ledvina moved, Farmakes seconded that the Planning Commission recommend approval of the signage package for the Chanhassen Retail Center as presented by the applicant with the conditions specified as part of the PUD and an additional condition identifying ' that the base materials of the signage shall be consistent with other monument and pylon signs within the PUD. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC HEARING: CO NDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A RECREATIONAL BEACHLOT FOR MINNEWASHTA LANDINGS ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF, AND LOCATED AT THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF HIGHWAY 7 AND MINNEWASHTA PARKWAY, KENNETH DURR. Public Present: Name Address Gary Carlson 3831 West 62nd Street John Rask presented the staff report on this item. Scott: Okay. When we have beachlots in front of us, probably the number one concern that we hear is obviously additional traffic on the lake. Just for purposes of public record, this is not a landing so these boats will not be, I don't have one so I don't know what ... but they have to be launched from the public launch facility on Lake Minnewashta. They will not be taken out there and the only, the total number of boats that will be allowed, what 3 boats, 1 sailboat overnight. Aanenson: If you want more during the day and tie them off... E:3 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 '• Scott: Right. So all the people who have lots on the lake are certainly free to own boats but ' g P P Y they're going to have to take them to the landing and put them on and off so. If there is any ' concern about additional traffic on the lake, it looks like they're only going to be able to put 4 more boats on the lake. Or whatever anybody would care to, so the big factors is not necessarily this conditional use permit. The big factor is how many people choose to use the ' boat landing on a given day, whether or not they live on the lake. Okay. Does the applicant wish to make any comments? You're not obligated to do so. If we have some questions, okay. Questions or comments from anybody from the commission? ' Farmakes: Can you tell me why the city considers structures, but why would the city prohibit shelters? ' Aanenson: Well we looked at that and this being ... I think at that time there was concern about garages. People storing boats on the property. Storing docks. Storing snowmobiles. ' Storing their boats on trailers on the beachlot. I think that was... Farmakes: When we define structure or shelter, or we define them differently? In other ' words, if it's a roof but no walls, is that a shelter? And a structure is with walls or what is? Aanenson: ...a structure. I Farmakes: Okay, well typically like a 50 foot gazebo is more like a landscape element where you know maybe it's a couple sitting there or 3 or 4 people. It's not like a picnic shelter or ' something like that. Is there a way to, it's really an enhancement. What I see here is that we can approve the bif£..but we can't approve the gazebo so. Aanenson: ...we looked at that as trying to find a reasonable—because the way our ordinance ' reads as far as structures... Farmakes: Does this have P otential as a variance? ' Kate Aanenson's answer could not be heard on the tape. Kenneth Durr: We can construct a... ' Farmakes: What kind of room have you got? Nutting: If the structure has to be removed after Labor Day, is it therefore a structure? Is it. ' Kate Aanenson's answer could not be heard on the tape. ' 9 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 ' Farmakes: Okay. This would be beyond the 75 foot setback. It looks like 100. It could be over 100 feet back. Ledvina: If we have a lot on the city, mean if I own a lot in the city, I can't ty ty, an t dust put a ' garage on it. Is that right? Aanenson: You can have an accessory structure... ' Ledvina: Right. But I mean the basic requirement is there. You can't have an accessory structure without a primary structure or a residence. Which I think is an excellent... right. I ' mean certainly it's a reasonable... Scott: Probably the variance process would be the appropriate way to deal with that. ' Farmakes: I would be open to that. ' Aanenson: Or amending the code. Scott: Yeah, I think we can do that. We don't need to make a motion but I think that that would make sense to further define structures versus shelter and use the structure would be something that's with walls and shelter is something that's without. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to speak at the public hearing? Can I have a motion to open ' the public hearing please? Ledvina moved, Farmakes seconded to open the public hearing. All voted in favor and ' the motion carried. The public hearing was opened. Scott: The public hearing is not open. If anybody would like to speak, please feel free to ' step up. Give us your name and your address and we'd like to hear what's on your mind. Gary Carlson: Good evening. My name is Gary Carlson and I usually come and speak on ' any matters that concern our beachlot which is the next one to the south. I don't know, is that park illustrated on this plan? Scott: Well we know that you have this 50 foot reservation that's just on the side, sure. ' Gary Carlson: Yeah. There's a 50 foot reservation. And as far as the gazebo item is, I've seen structures go up in the city where there's no principle structure. I'm talking about on Cathcart Park, all of a sudden somebody moved in another building on there and they called it an ice warming house. We've been watching this old house slowly fall down. They try 10 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 and paint it up and they try and paint it up each year but it's still a falling down house that all of us neighbors have to look at and somehow that goes right around all these ordinances. But being on a beachlot myself I know what lightning and rain and when you have your family down on the dock situation and there's no place for safety for them to go. And for Mr. Durr not to be able to build, not necessarily build but to have the finest beachlot on, as far as I can see with this plan, and the size of it and his landscaping, it will be the finest ' beachlot on the lake. Why it cannot have a gazebo is beyond me. There's a few too many rules that don't make sense and you gentlemen are here to just say, aye. Let's pass it and ' then let the Council solve it. You don't have to follow every little ordinance that happens to be up here because there's a lot of them on the city books that have never been enforced... So I think you should allow him to have the gazebo for safety and for the appearance and for the ' fact that it's the smallest beachlot in the whole lake. There's only 27 residents in that development and I think if you traced each beachlot around Lake Minnewashta you'll find that that is also the smallest. One of the smallest beachlots on the whole lake so they should ' be able to have those type of simple safety structures that are for the residents to find shelter if they have their family at the beach. Especially when lightning storms. The only concern we have is that you allow Mr. Dun to erect that find beachlot next to our's because it will also enhance our's. So that's all I have to say. Scott: Good, thank you. Would anybody else like to make any comments? Seeing none, can I have a motion to close the public hearing please? Farmakes moved, Ledvina seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and , the motion carried. The public hearing was closed. Ledvina: I was wondering about off street parking. I know in your compliance table you've ' indicated that the standard prohibits off street parking. I guess I, I don't know. The alternative would be the cars parked along the roadway. Can you expand on the rationale for no off street parking? , Rask: Sure. There really is no spot for off street parking here. However, all the lots are , within 1,000 feet of the beachlot so it's kind of the assumption that people will be walking to the beachlot. There will be a path in, actually access. You know the people using the beachlot are all within that subdivision and we would just as soon that they would walk to the , beachlot as opposed to drive a block or half a block. Ledvina: So you feel it would be a walking situation, sure. There would be cars parked all I along. I would walk but I don't know about everybody else. 11 1 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 ' Aanenson: We may have instances where families may drive down with a picnic basket and Y Y P ' children and... The intention is not to have you go parking down there... Ledvina: And I know situations with other recreational beachlots where off street parking creates some additional problems with after hour activities and things like that with other ' people so I guess I can see it but I just wanted to just get a little better perspective on that. I guess as far as the gazebo is concerned, I think it's an amenity for the beachlot but I think the process would call for a variance of the ordinance and we don't have the analysis for a variance here. The variance process is pretty well defined and I don't know that we can do that. Maybe one of the, as far as condition number 5 is concerned. Maybe we can suggest ' that variance process be initiated for the gazebo. I don't know. Aanenson: Or Jeff had a good suggestion too. Amend the code under the beachlot section ' that says if it was just a roofed building and that would constitute a structure... Ledvina: Well, then we're monkeying with the definition of structure then, aren't we? Aanenson: Only in the beachlot section. ' Ledvina: Oh! Only in the beachlot section. Okay. Aanenson: We'd just be amending the beachlot ordinance to say certain of these types of... ' gazebo and then put a cap on it. Ledvina: So you're saying amend the ordinance? Aanenson: Yeah. That would be the two options you would have... ' Scott: The definition section. ' Aanenson: Or just amend the beachlot section. Whichever. Ledvina: Okay. Well, I don't know. I guess we can just leave that alone then in terms of ' the conditions. Aanenson: You may want to just ...and forward those onto Council. ' Ledvina: Okay. Well maybe just a however on number 5. Whoever makes the motion then. And then just for semantics purposes here. With condition number 2. I guess I would ' change the wording of the second sentence just to make sure that we're talking about on 1 12 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 1 r f n h I would with maximum , shore sto age o the canoes and ow would say that ou d be, th the axunu n shore o storage of 18 canoes and just take out the word slips because I think slips implies water kind of thing and we know that the canoes are intended to be stored on the land, right? Okay. So I would just clarify that. Scott: Like 18 rack spaces. Ledvina: Or whatever. Just maximum on shore storage. How they do it I. ' Scott: I can talk about horses but not boats. Ledvina: Okay, that's it. ' Scott: Jeff. I Farmakes: I'd like to see what we can do to get to allow the gazebo. I think it'd be an enhancement also, even from the lake viewing an enhancement. One of the things I'm concerned about, we have a, I live next to a park where, a small park probably about this size and we have about 80 homes and it's on a curve and there isn't much parking there but there is an opportunity to get off of the main part of traffic on Utica. Just to drop stuff off. ' Coolers. Chairs. Things of that nature for one car. For the park there. They get the kids out of the car. They take their cooler or whatever down to the beach. They have boats. They can load it up. It allows them to get out of the lane of traffic and it's a no parking ' situation so they drop off their stuff and then they go park wherever and they come back. It would seem to me that for people with children or people who have to transport items, that maybe up there just past the island you could cut in enough space to get a car out of the lane ' of traffic so when ... but not enough to constitute a parking problem. Anyway, this is a matter of practicality. I see it every day on our park and it would be very beneficial I think to see. Other than that I think it's very nice. High quality. I even like the landscaping so, that's it. ' Scott: Good, Ron. 1 Nutting: I don't have anything substance to add to the record. I'm also in support of the gazebo. It adds to the site so whatever mechanism, whether it's the variance process or ' amendment to the ordinance for the beachlot, I think that would be a worthwhile venture. I have nothing more to add... Scott: Okay, can I have a motion please. ' 13 1 11 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 ' Nutting: I make a motion that the Planning Commission recommend approval of Conditional g g PP Use Permit #94 -5 to allow a recreational beachlot on Outlot A in Minnewashta Landings Subdivision with the conditions stated in the staff report. ' Scott: Corrections as made. Nutting: With the correction as noted in number 2. With the on shore storage. Scott: Good, second? ' Farmakes: I'd like to make a friendly amendment. To add consideration for the turn out for a car so as not to create a traffic problem there. ' Scott: Is that acceptable to you Ron? Nutting: Sure. Scott: Okay, good. Can we have a second to that motion as amended please? ' Ledvina: I would second that. Scott: Okay. It's been moved and seconded. Is there any more discussion? Nutting moved, Ledvina seconded that the Planning Commission recommend approval of Conditional Use Permit #94 -5 to allow a recreational beachlot on Outlot A in ' Minnewashta Landings Subdivision with the following conditions: 1. All provision of Section 20 -263 pertaining to recreational beachlots shall be adhered to. 2. Verify ater depth and submit the appropriate configuration of dock. The dock must be Y P g within the dock wetback zone. The dock shall have a maximum of three (3) boats docked overnight with a maximum of 18 canoes stored on shore. ' 3. The applicant shall apply for a permit from the city on an annual basis prior to installation of the portable chemical toilet. The portable chemical toilet shall only be permitted from Memorial Day to Labor Day and shall be removed from the beachlot during the rest of the year. The width of the trail and location of landscape plantings shall be designed to allow for the annual removal of the toilet facility. ' 4. No gazebo or shelters shall be allowed on the beachlot. 14 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 t' ' 5. The applicant shall supply a turn out space for a vehicle so as not to cause traffic problems. All voted in favor and the motion carried. 1 PUBLIC HEARING: AMENDMENT TO THE CITY CODE RELATING TO THE CONTROL AND ' PREVENTION OF DUTCH ELM AND OTHER ARBOREAL DISEASES WITHIN THE CITY. Scott: I'd like to welcome Jill Kimsal to our meeting and I can say we had Jill come out to ' our property and look at some trees and she was very knowledgeable and very courteous and that comment was made to your boss. So now that you're totally embarrassed and stuff, let's hear your report. Jill Kimsal presented the staff report on this item. I Scott: Good, thank you very much. Any questions? Comments. Nutting: Are you conflicted in this? Is there any monetary future benefit to be gained? ' Scott: Conflict of interest here. Aanenson: The ordinance does require that we have someone that's available on a part time basis. It isn't full time. Just so you know, we're going through the budget process with this. ' Jill's done a great job for the city this summer and what we've done is, what we're proposing in the budget is to keep her on 3 days during the winter ... some of the stuff that Diane ' Desotelle is working on with storm water and lake management inventory and looking at trees and some of those sorts of things so then we'll have Jill on again next summer. But what this does require, and we talked about this in the budget last year is having someone available ' all summer. We're just at that level with the environmental issues that the city has and trees is one of those things. Ledvina: Tree preservation. ' Aanenson: So we need someone available and Jill has done a great job helping us manage ' that. And also she ... erosion control, the solid waste element of vegetation. Those sort of things. 15 1 11 11 I - 1 L--J' n 1 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Scott: May I just ask you a question. Just a question for Jill. In the last issue of Planning magazine that we get, there was. a specific issue, did you see that? Aanenson: Yeah, we read that. I was going to include that in your packet about tree ordinances. Scott: Yeah. But to increase, I think it was they wanted, if you have a grade level of the root system, the top of the root system, and then you have to fill in around, I think they were recommending going from what, like 5 times the root ball or something like that which is, it exceeds. Aanenson: We looked at that ordinance but one of the things that I think Bob and I were talking about too is that our ordinance is a little bit different. We went back with the significant in the canopy. Again your—closer to matching individual trees which we found. Scott: And we're doing canopy instead. Aanenson: So we're looking at, yeah. We're looking at the bigger picture which we think, we think it works a lot better. ...plats where we had individual trees... Kimsal: Yeah, and just my experience throughout the summer dealing with developments. You know saving single trees was just really hard to do because the developers, the contractors, the builders don't really see the- significance of a single tree in the front yard. It's a lot easier for them to infringe on that, the root system of that tree rather than a whole grove. Aanenson: Going back to this ordinance and conflict, let me answer that question. Nutting: I was in jest. Aanenson: What this does in part is someone that's available. Now you don't have to keep that person on full time but we've committed in last year's budget that we do have an intern available to do this. The good news though is that Jill will be working on too as a part of this is there's money available to become a Tree City USA and that's one of the first things she'd be working on and there's quite a bit in that. Scott: Hey alright. Can we put that on a sign? Aanenson: There's money available for that and also going back to this, if there are diseased trees, we can work out a program to help reduce the cost to the homeowner and so that's being introduced. The purpose really is to get rid of diseased trees that are a problem and not 16 t Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 ,' to necessarily penalize the homeowner. To try and get those taken care of so we think this is a way to do that's not punitive. It's again, matching a resource that we have... ' Farmakes: What potentially could happen to a homeowner that may have 20 acres and they have, I want to say a farm area where they may have 10 -12 acres of heavy forests. In that heavy forests maybe several trees that maybe require eradication. Which could be several ' thousand dollars. Kimsal: Not necessarily. I believe it was kept in the ordinance that one of the procedures ' for removal or elimination of diseased tree is girdling within an area where there's no safety concerns whatsoever. So if somebody did have 20 acres and they had, and usually in that ' case we're going to have elms that are 6 inches or less. It's usually a small diameter tree that's going to have this situation. And in that case, it's easy enough for them just to go around and girdle up the trees. There'd be no cost to them. ' Farmakes: Okay, what's girdle? Kimsal: Oh girdle is to take at least 2 inches of bark off entirely around the diameter of the tree. The circumference of the tree. Ledvina: From the bottom? Kimsal: Just take the bark off, yeah. I Ledvina: All the bark on the tree? Kimsal: No no. A minimum of 2 inches. , Ledvina: What does that do? ' Kimsal: It's killing off all the water. The conducting vessels are within that area and if you ' take that away, nothing can move up and nothing can move down. Ledvina: So that prevents the spread of the disease? I Kimsal: Well that kills the tree. Once the tree dies, it is a possible site of beetle breeding grounds. However, if you get trees that small, they're going to dry out faster and once the ' tree dries, the bark separates from the wood and in order for it to be a hospitable beetle breeding site, the bark needs to be tight to the tree. So once the tree dries out, the bark expands off the tree. You don't have to worry about it. I 17 1 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Farmakes: Okay, so they wouldn't necessarily have to eradicate it? ' Kimsal: Right. ' Farmakes: Okay. In surrounding communities with oak wilt. Now we have a lot of red oak here. Don't they eradicate that by trenching or something or is that, are we looking at creating barriers from that coming in here or do we just wait until the trees die and then we ' eradicate them? Kimsal: Yeah. No, we don't want to build a trench around the city or anything like that. ' Usually you just wait until you find a suspected case of oak wilt. In that case the recommended procedure is to take samples of it. Send it to the Department of Ag and based on the results you get from that, that person would either use trenching or removal on white oak or red oak ... which can transmit the disease. Otherwise, in all cases of oak wilt you would recommend trenching around that infected tree. Farmakes: Okay. I've seen, is part of this program, I've seen red marks on the trees say over between Greenwood Shores and the park where the city put in those roads there and then they finally killed off those trees by putting in the PVC pipes so they didn't have to put plumbing into the shelter at Lake Ann. So they could run it over to the pumping station on the Greenwood Shores side. They must have killed 10 or more trees. Large mature trees by doing that. This is off of this ordinance but that, it would be a good thing to evaluate how ' those trees were killed by that type of construction so that the city doesn't do that again. It was counter productive and the construction methods that were used by the subcontractor killed those trees. I was there and observed their construction methods. They operated in the summer. They were using tractor trends on cats that were depressing the ground about 12 inches at the base of those oak trees with no regard. Aanenson: That's part of what you would have done is review the plans as far as construction management and then she's out in the field making sure that it's done ... and that's why in the summer months at a minimum we get someone to do that. And as she was out in ' inspections to find diseased trees, we realized we ... ordinance in place. J I_J r] Farmakes: And when I discussed that with the city personnel I was told that well, it was the lowest bid that they went with and my response was, well then we have to have a criteria for the bid that requests these construction methods then because it was really sad to see that type of trail through those type of trees and then to kill the trees. And also when they decided to put the PVC pipe and run it all the way to the other side of the lake, how many trees they were killing with a 5 inch piece of PVC pipe. Maybe if that was part of the consideration for the plumbing, they may have decided not to do that so anyway. 18 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 ,' Scott: Also too I know when we n f the big thins t w have with i ' o get, one o g g that e a e to deal th s when we have developments come in is that you have, the person who provides us with the , information as to where the trees are, what kind they are and whether or not they're going to be around after the development starts is not really objective. So I'm sure that there's ample opportunity for your expertise to be applied to a few of those babies. Okay. Could I have a ' motion please? Ledvina: I have a few more questions. I Scott: Inquiring minds. Ledvina: Sorry. Just on the language I guess. Now we were talking about this forester , position. Have we not created that yet? Aanenson: Yes. Ledvina: So are we duplicating this section? I Aanenson: No. What it's saying is that the model language we could adopt came right out of the State statute so you looked at doing that. ' Ledvina: Kind of like the shoreland ordinance? Aanenson: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so what we did is we spoke with the City Attorney's office , and said, yes but there were penalties and things in there we didn't want and so what they said is you have to get commission approval yeah if we wanted to amend or have a little bit ' different ordinance. So what we do need to have in order—we do need to have language that says we do have a city forester and that's qualified and Jill and Jeff, our intent last year also query. ' Ledvina: Okay. I didn't know if this was redundant. I thought we had done this but I can, it just reinforces what's already on the books, right? , Aanenson: Right. Again, it's out of State statutes a lot of this. Some of the language we I did ... straight out of the... Ledvina: Okay. Can someone interpret this language for me? On page 2, Section 13 -2. ' Elm and oak wood storage. Okay. Here we go. Let's try to do this. On the second line there. Is prohibited except during the period September 15th through April 1st of the 19 1 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 ' following year during which eriod such storage shall be permitted. Whew. How the hell do P g you? What does that mean? ' Kimsal: Well all that's in to say is elm logs and infected trees from the try g y g red oak group, ' you can store those, if you're using them for firewood or something like that, between September 15th and April 1st. If it's between that time, neither elm bark beetles are reproducing nor oak wilt spoor mats are forming. Therefore, the wood that is infected is relatively safe at that time. So you could store it on your property. Ledvina: Okay. But what's of the following year? What does that have to do with it? ' Kimsal: Well April 1st the following year because you have September 15th of say 1994 to April 1st of 1995. It covers the winter. ' Ledvina: Okay. September 15th through April 1st of the following year. So it doesn't have anything relating to do when the tree was cut down or anything like that? Kimsal: No. ' Ledvina: Because that's what I was thinking it was relating. The following year. Aanenson: If you're going to cut it down and store it. Scott: Just think, those are the months that you can't golf. ' Ledvina: Okay. Think of it that way. Well I don't know. That's kind of weird. Aanenson: And we can put you know during whatever month period that is. A 9 month ' period of whatever. Ledvina: Why is it so confusing? Am I stupid or. Scott: No you're not. You're very intelligent and well educated. ' Aanenson: ...calendar year so you can say the whole consecutive whatever, 8 -9 months. ' Scott: That means if you're going to cut something like that down, you got to burn it. You'd better burn it so if it's laying around, then you're in violation of the code. We have the wood pile police now. 20 t Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 1 Ledvina: Okay. Would you fix that language if you want. I mean I guess these state ordinances you don't want to monkey with those too much. , Aanenson: Right. Ledvina: And then also just one other thing on page 4. Item (e). You're talking specifically , about diseased elms and oaks. Do we want to say, and other trees? I mean I know we, but why are we specific to that? Is that intentional or no? , Kimsal: That's only intentional because as of right now those are the only diseases we know of that would be a problem. ' Ledvina: Right. But we want to, but I mean this is the thing that talks about stumps and if we need to deal with stumps from other types of diseases let's say. Let's throw that in there. Because you know it's a speck thing on stumps. Scott: Also in Section 13 -36 we must have his/her in there. By the way. You don't think I we read these things do you? Nutting: Our hour is up. I Ledvina: Yeah, hour's up. Okay. Scott: Okay, let's have a motion then. , Ledvina: I would move that the Planning Commission recommend to the City Council , adoption of the proposed Diseased Tree Ordinance as shown in the attachment of our staff report with some helpful modifications to the language to clarify and enhance as discussed , here. Scott: Good. Can I have a second please? Nutting: Second. Scott: It's been moved and seconded. Any discussion? , Ledvina moved, Nutting seconded that the Planning Commission recommend to the City Council adoption of the proposed Diseased Tree Ordinance as shown in the attachment of our staff report with some helpful modifications to the language to clarify and enhance. All voted in favor and the motion carried. ' 21 1 i Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Scott: And let the record show that although this was a public hearing item no members g P g from the general public are in the audience so we dispensed with that. ' APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Ledvina moved, o ed, Nutting seconded to approve the Minutes of the Planning Commission meetings dated August 17, 1994 and September 7, 1994 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. 1 CITY COUNCIL UPDATE. ' Aanenson: They approved the Interim Use for Admiral Waste. I think Council made some good modifications as far as capping the number of dumpsters and also making sure that they were only Admiral Waste. They couldn't sublet their space. And I think that was a good compromise. Again, we kept to the same number of years that you had recommended which was 5 so that was ... I think that was a good compromise. When Halla went before the City Council they had recommended... attorney's office on whether or not they could go on the ' averaging or whether they had to go back to the original plat. Roger gave a legal opinion that said, really their old grandfathered right was to pursue the original plat. And again that was the legal opinion and the City Council went ahead and gave him the average so. Ledvina: Which is how we passed it forward, is that correct? ' Aanenson: Correct. What they'll be seeing Monday night is the exact motion that you had forwarded to them. But what we are ... that is a recommendation because this has been going for 7 years. I mean he's proceeding with a right that nobody else has which is, you know if ' he was to come in today he'd have to go at 1 per 10. Ledvina: Did the Council at that point approve that plat? ' Aanenson: No, it's oin Monday night. g g Y g Ledvina: But it almost seemed like they were approving the. Aanenson: No. They didn't have the plat in front of them or the conditions so that's really, but the condition that we're adding in as well as your recommendation ... is we're adding a drop dead date because he has to final plat the whole thing. That was one of the conditions so we're saying that there's so many lots that have to be final platted or he no longer has the preliminary plat status. Because this has continued for 7 years and it's either got to go forward or drop so that would be our recommendation on that. Business fringe district. We talked about, we added some permitted uses. Those we thought that were easily converted to 1 22 L� Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 `y a higher or better uses such as the miniature golf. The Council was still concerned about ' g some of the conditional uses, which are in place right now. That may not be quite so , transitory in nature such as the cold storage. If somebody has a mortgage on a piece of property, based on a large facility, it may be hard to convert that type of use. So we do have one down there right now that they're recommending now that that be taken off the ' conditional use so really what we're looking as far as conditional uses is the car lot... Ledvina: Wasn't the purpose of that ordinance to expand the uses and what we really ended ' up doing was narrowing them, in the end right? Aanenson: No, we didn't have any permitted uses. So what we did is we did add some , permitted uses ... would change in the future. But we did revisit the conditional uses and take out some of them that maybe weren't quite so palatable as long term uses. Again going back, if someone's going to put a big building on there and then a mortgage, he's not going to turn ' over as quickly as a miniature golf course. So I think it was a good compromise. Ledvina: Yeah, I think so too. I Aanenson: Shadow Ridge was given final plat approval. If you've driven out there, they're up there working away. They've done a good job as far as staking their trees and ... pretty , conscious effort to try and preserve... And then they also approved, the Council approved the Wetland Alteration Permit for Highway 5 and Lyman Blvd. Scott: Good, thank you. Planning Commission terms, speaking for myself. I would like to , be re- appointed. I'm interested in being re- appointed so you can pass that on to. Aanenson: What I wanted to do was just forward this on to the City Council just so you , know because what happens is ... at the end of the year and then we've got to make sure we've got people in the chairs so we can keep the agendas going so I'll forward this onto the Council. So if we do need to advertise, maybe we do need to ... Ladd and Diane so we have people here ready to serve. you Nutting: What do do if Nanc Ygets elected to the Council? ' Y Scott: Well we'll know and then we'll have a seat. Nutting: You'll advertise at that point in time? ' Scott: Right. 23 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Ledvina: I don't understand this, these terms. I was appointed before. Aanenson: Some people are filling out like Brian Batzli's so there are some people that are filling out other people's terms... Ledvina: So how come Jeff has a 5 year term? Farmakes: He's obviously more valuable than we are. Scott: Oh by the way, I would like to announce that Matt Ledvina has been awarded the Brian Batzli Memorial Attendance Award. Unfortunately Brian couldn't be here tonight to give it to you so you'll have to call him at his office. Ledvina: I guess we're going to share that award with, I share it with Nancy and yourself so. Scott: Well, I don't know how that happened. Ledvina: And you two over there, shape up. Nutting: Is my 69% based on the number of meetings I was eligible to attend or all the meetings? Farmakes: 81% is a B -. I'll take that. Aanenson: ...City Council decided to interview so you weren't even appointed until March and that's, we've got 3 people out. Scott: So it looks pretty nasty there. Well that's the problem when you have a young child. I certainly wouldn't want to do that. Okay. Could I have a, wait a second here. There's a. Ledvina: Shoreland ordinance. We don't talk about that. Scott: Yeah. This is just attached for our information? Aanenson: Yes. Scott: May I have a motion to adjourn please? 24 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 1 L 25 1 7 Ledvina moved, Nutting seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 8:37 p.m. , Submitted by Kate Aanenson Planning Director , Prepared by Nann Opheim L 25 1 7