CC 2012 08 27
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 27, 2012
Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to
the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mayor Furlong, Councilman McDonald, Councilwoman
Tjornhom, Councilwoman Ernst, and Councilman Laufenburger
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Gerhardt, Laurie Hokkanen, Paul Oehme, Kate Aanenson, Todd Hoffman,
and Greg Sticha
PUBLIC PRESENT:
Ron Kleve 7307 Laredo Drive
Mayor Furlong: Welcome and thank you for everyone who’s here this evening in the council chambers
as well as those watching at home. We’re glad that you joined us this evening. At this time I would ask
if there are any changes or modifications to the agenda from members of the council. Otherwise without
objection we’ll proceed with the agenda as published. We have a short agenda this evening. The first
items will be considered under the consent agenda.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded to
approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s recommendations:
a. Approval of Minutes:
-City Council Work Session Minutes dated August 13, 2012
-City Council Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated August 13, 2012
Receive Commission Minutes:
-Park and Recreation Commission Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated July 24, 2012
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
Ron Kleve: Hi. My name is Ron Kleve, 7307 Laredo Drive. I’m here as part of the Lotus Lake
Conservation Alliance. I just wanted to mention the funding that the City has provided us in the past, or
this year and wondering what the City’s plan is for 2013 for invasive species. I thought it was under the
Park and Rec agenda, or budget this year and I’m not seeing it on there for the 2013.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Gerhardt, where do we account for this on the inspection program?
Todd Gerhardt: For 2012 and 2013 it would fall under our stormwater management fund and those
dollars are used to manage our natural resources in the community. Wetlands, storm water, lake quality
and quantity so it made most sense to take those dollars from our stormwater management fund. So in
2012 we budgeted $10,000. We’re planning on end of September making a presentation to council. We
consider that special revenue funds, not as a part of the general fund so there’ll be a presentation to the
council in September. Second meeting in September to show kind of the results of our inspections at the
three locations this past summer and then staff’s recommendation on how to proceed into the future.
Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Ron Kleve: Okay. Is there any indication at this point what the City’s plan is or is it not, help me along
here. This is new to me.
Mayor Furlong: Sure. I think the first question is, as we discussed, the council at our work session
tonight, we’ve been working on the general fund. Budget presentations by staff and so the first question I
guess that you had asked tonight is, is it’s not in the general fund expenditures for park and recreation.
It’s one of the enterprise funds and as Mr. Gerhardt said we’ll be talking about those as a council with
staff towards the end of September. Apparently the first discussion will be at our second meeting in
September. In terms of the results of that, Mr. Hoffman do you want to give a quick summary of how the
inspection program has been going this year and just for the council benefit and for the gentleman as well.
Todd Hoffman: Absolutely, be glad to. We have contracted with VOLT inspection. Volt Temporary
Services and they’ve been doing watercraft inspections at three lake access. Lake Ann, Lake Susan and
Lotus Lake so we’re just over about 2,300 watercraft inspected and the performance of the public in
adhering to the rules and regulations that have been put forth by the State have been very good. It’s right
around a 3% rate where somebody shows up with either water or weeds on their trailer or on their boat
and so that’s, if you look at it another way that’s about a 97% success rate that people are following the
rules. Pulling their plug. Removing weeds from their trailer and boat prior to gaining access to the water
so the 3% that are showing up are, we have a conversation with them as a part of the inspection process
and those weeds are cleaned off or that water is emptied prior to them entering any one of the water
bodies.
Ron Kleve: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else that would like to address the council on visitor presentations
this evening? Thank you. Move on.
AWARD OF BID: TH 41 TRAIL EXTENSION AND STAIRWAY CONNECTOR.
Todd Hoffman: Thank you Mayor and City Council and members of the audience. Tonight we’re going
to discuss the award of bid for the Trunk Highway 41 trail extension and stairway connector. I want to
frame this conversation a little bit. This is a smaller project of a much larger project that we’re involved
with with Carver County and so when Carver County applied for federal grants, federal dollars for the
Trunk Highway 41, the larger project which takes us from Longacres on the south. That’s Highway 41
and so this project, the county project takes us from Longacres Drive, right at this location, all the way
north with the trail on the east side of 41, all the way past Lake Lucy, up past the pond and then to the
middle school driveway right at this location. So that’s the full project for the trail on Highway 41 that
we’re working with independent of this project with the County. The County is also is building from the
underpass location a mile of trail into their park which comes right here at this underpass and then a mile
of trail into the park and down into the regional park. So 2 miles of trail with a pedestrian underpass, but
when we were looking at that project there were a couple of missing pieces and so there was a missing
piece at the north end from the school driveway, right at this location. This is Minnetonka Middle School
West. North to Chaska Road and then a pedestrian crossing to our existing trail connection and then a
stairway connector up into the Highover Addition. And so what staff’s position was is we didn’t want to
complete this much larger project. Have it all finished out and then have the public come and be
presented with the need to go onto the shoulder of Highway 41 to make this final connection north to the
trail crossing or to Chaska Road and also to fulfill this stairway connector at the Highover Drive location.
So we started entering into that process and again this is overall a goal of the comprehensive plan is to
connect our communities, our neighbors with park facilities within our community including the regional
park facility that is shown at Lake Minnewashta Regional. So this is what’s happening inside the park.
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Inside the park there’s a mile of trail from the pedestrian underpass leading all the way down to the beach
and so this goes down to the beach location. So that’s the destination at Lake Minnewashta Regional
Park. Large facility within our community but up til this point no really access, public access other than
driving to the park, and now you’ll be able to bike or walk to that facility. The underpass is located south
of their entrance driveway and so with the trail access here and this is the entrance drive into the regional
park. So there are two components to this project. Really three and the stairway is one and why a
stairway up into Highover. When that plat was approved, this is the lot. So Lot 1 is on the right. The
future trail and the stairway or the trail access was taken here at this location. And why do we need a stair
instead of a trail is because of this hill that’s located now at the back of those lots. So as these properties
were developed for the homes at this site, this became obvious that as it was graded out that they were
going to need a stairway and not a trail at that particular location. And then on the north end for the
pedestrian crossing, this is the location at Chaska Road crossing from the middle school driveway, which
is just located down here to the south. This section of trail will come up on the east side of Highway 41
and then there’s a large expanse of Highway 41 here. There will be a safe island built in this center
location. Pedestrians will cross the turn lane in the northbound lane and then cross that safe island before
crossing the southbound lanes. So those are the components of the project. We also added a flashing
beacon at this location. That was an additional consideration to the project and Mike McGarvey who is
here this evening with SRF will go through those individual components to the project in some detail and
then we’ll answer questions of the council. Mike.
Mike McGarvey: Sure. So as Todd mentioned this project has evolved over time but essentially it is
making the trail connection between the end of the Carver County project at the middle school. Making
the connection to Chaska Road. A new crossing of TH 41 with the raised median and then the stair
connection down at the south end to Highover. Over the course of the project, as elements have been
added to it, you mentioned the rapid flashing beacon for the signal crossing, or for the pedestrian crossing
of TH 41, the estimate has moved around a little bit. Back in August of last year when we had the base
project which consisted of basically just the stair and the trail connection piece, and the crossing. Our
estimate at that point, and this is end of August of last year, we were looking at an estimate of $174,000
and that did not include the beacon or, but did include the stairway at that point. Moving forward to
January of this year we made some minor modifications to the estimate. As we were moving at that point
we thought moving closer to an approval from MnDOT of the crossing and moving forward closer to
bidding at that point we fine tuned our estimate and we just some minor adjustments to grading, some of
the pavement, curb and gutter numbers and our estimate at that point was 185 and I think at that point we
came forward to council with some, looking for some direction and at that point the initial project was
approved I believe at 205 for the project. $205,000 for the project. After that this discussion of, and
during this time the city engineering was looking at the possibility of applying for, in that prior time
looking at the possibility of applying for a grant. Safe Routes to School Grant in conjunction with the
school to potentially fund the rapid flashing beacon and we had started discussions about that idea. The
City did not, and school did not receive that grant but there was some interest at that point in pursuing the
idea of adding the rapid flashing beacon to the project. So in the spring of this year we revised our plans
to include that within the project. We were also asked to make a connection to Chaska Road, a physical
connection. As it was previously we had the trail connecting to the crossing of Highway 41. There was a
small chunk of trail that was requested to be added to. Actually connect to Chaska Road so we added that
as well. There was also a request from engineering to add some insulation under the stairway at
Highover. The purpose of that being if there was some variation in the grades along that newly
constructed, the grading that occurred with the development of that area, if the, there’s a watermain that is
located basically directly under the stairway in that easement area and to safeguard that against freezing,
engineering requested that we add insulation under the stairway. These elements also added some
ancillary costs. Additional mobilization. Some additional curb and gutter removals. Clearing and
grubbing, etc which took us, our estimate once we added those elements in our estimate at that point was
$257,000. There was another, I think at that point council authorized us to go forward with bidding.
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
There was one minor adjustment to our estimate prior to going out to bid and that was adding $1,000 to
make sure that, to paint the signal pole that the rapid flashing beacons will be on on 41. Painting those to
match other signal poles within the city and that hadn’t been included previously so our final estimate
going into construction was $258,000. When bids were opened earlier this month we received three bids
on the project. Midwest Asphalt Corporation, Minnesota State Curb and Gutter, and Rosti Construction.
Rosti Construction being the firm that is doing the Carver County trail construction work currently.
Again the SRF estimate was $258,000. The low bid from Midwest Asphalt Corporation was $293,750.
Minnesota State Curb and Gutter was $345,887 and Rosti Construction was just a hair under half million
dollars at $499,315. The difference between the SRF engineer’s estimate and the low bid from Midwest
Asphalt Corporation is roughly $35,000. That difference is almost entirely accounted within two items.
A number of, throughout the estimate, by and large everything is plus or minus a couple thousand dollars.
A lot of them very close. Within reason there’s no real logic to it but you know just typical kind of
bidding strategies but the two obvious differences between the SRF estimate and the low bid are the
concrete steps. SRF had estimated those at $60,000. Our original estimate, as I mentioned we tweaked
things along the way. At one point we had that estimated at $55,000. We did at one point bump it up to
$60,000. Midwest Asphalt’s number for that item is $83,000 so there’s a $23,000 difference in that one
item. The other item that came in much higher than we anticipated was the insulation under the stairway.
SRF had estimated that at $2,100. The estimate from, the bid price from Midwest Asphalt was just over
$18,000. Ironically when, shortly after, just after the bid and Todd and I were discussing it, Midwest
Asphalt called and checking on the status of the bids and I think unsolicited as we were talking about that
things were a little bit high but one of the things that they offered right away is saying you know, the
comment that they have been surprised this year at how much insulation has been costing them. They had
you know, we’re seeing numbers roughly double to triple what they historically had seen them at so that
was, is one thing that is something that’s occurring in the construction industry at the moment for some
reason that perplexes both the bidders and ourselves but those two items account for about a $39,000
difference between our estimate and the low bid so like I said it largely accounts for the $35,000
difference between the SRF estimate and the low bid. The other thing that it just illustrates is at this point
construction bidding is progressing upwards at a fairly rapid pace and particularly for late season bidding
for what I say is a small project. We are seeing typically bids are running 10 or 15 percent, at a minimum
10 to 15 percent more than what we had seen in the past so that’s I think one, a function of late season
bidding but I think more indicative, the more consistently we’re seeing this is that it’s a continuing trend
and we expect that to continue into next year. I think certainly there will be some efficiencies in bidding
you know in a more typical bid situation but I think in general it’s a clear indication of bids beginning to
trend upward. You know after several years of very competitive pricing that firms have scaled back. Are
very lean and aren’t willing to take on a lot of excess risk on projects so they are, bids within the industry
are generally trending upwards. So I think with that maybe turn it over to any questions that you may
have.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. McGarvey, is that right?
Mike McGarvey: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: The bid, the low bid from Midwest Asphalt for $293,750, is it possible to
identify, of the line items that are in that bid which line items specifically relate to the pedestrian crossing
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
and the beacon flashing versus the line items that specifically relate to the stairway connector. So my
question is, what’s the pedestrian crossing cost? What’s the stairway connector cost?
Mike McGarvey: Sure. Some of the cost, those two particular items are identified as lump sum items so
the bulk of the cost can be identified. The concrete steps obviously at the $83,000. The beacon was bid
at $30,000. That’s the bulk of it. There are some other items that, with a little bit of work we could say
that a portion of that would be attributable to one or the other but they’re in things like grading, silt fence,
clearing and grubbing. There’s no, it would be tough to find a lot of things that would be directly
attributable.
Councilman Laufenburger: What I’m looking for Mr. McGarvey is your, based on your experience and
your expertise in this, recognizing that you are far better equipped than any of us up here, I’m just looking
for, even within $5,000 one way or the other. What’s the cost of the stairway connector? What’s the cost
of the pedestrian crossing?
Mike McGarvey: At one point we had looked at that and I think we had come up with a number of
roughly for the signal, that maybe there was another $30,000 or there about’s in additional cost that were
associated with that so roughly $60,000-$65,000 attributable to the signal and the improvements going
with that. I would say that there’s probably with the stairs there might be another maybe $10,000 to
$15,000 that might be associated with that so that might be in the.
Councilman Laufenburger: I think you’re not understanding my question. $293,750 is the total number
if we were to award this bid, and from that we would get two elements of this project. One would be a
stairway connector. The other would be a pedestrian crossing. What I’m wondering is, of the $293,750
how much of that can you expertly apportion to the pedestrian crossing and how much of that 293 is to
pay for the stairway connector? That’s the question.
Mike McGarvey: The pedestrian crossing as opposed to the signal.
Councilman Laufenburger: Well I’m saying the pedestrian crossing, the signal, everything on the north
end.
Mike McGarvey: Yep. Yep.
Councilman Laufenburger: So just imagine with me, in my mind I’m thinking there’s a portion of the
project that is north of Minnetonka Middle School West and then there’s a portion of the project that is
the stairway connector. I’d like your best estimate of how much is the pedestrian crossing, including the
beacon.
Mike McGarvey: Yep.
Councilman Laufenburger: And how much is the stairway connector? I’ll give you a couple minutes if
you want to look at that.
Mike McGarvey: Yeah, it would be.
Todd Hoffman: And including the trail on the north end as well? We’re just splitting it in two?
Councilman Laufenburger: Everything that the $293,750 buys us, I would like to know how much is for
the stairway connector and then how much is for everything north. And Mr. Hoffman, while he’s
calculating that, if we were to award this bid of $293,750, what’s the source of those funds?
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Todd Hoffman: Park dedication fund.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Councilwoman Ernst: Can I say something?
Mayor Furlong: Sure, Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Todd I do have a question too about, this was a joint effort with Carver County
and the City of Chanhassen with this project.
Todd Hoffman: The larger project. This project is solely the City.
Councilwoman Ernst: So Carver County is not involved in this project at all? Okay. I thought that they
had a portion of it but, I was going to try and see if they’d pick up some of the cost but I guess that didn’t
work.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. The arrangement with Carver County is shared with the pedestrian
underpass and then they were basically responsible for everything west of 41 and then we were
responsible for everything east of 41.
Councilwoman Ernst: Which is this part of the project.
Todd Gerhardt: Correct.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay.
Mike McGarvey: Councilmember Laufenburger I would say that the ones that I can directly attribute to
the steps would be the steps themselves at $83,000. Without the steps there would be no need for the
insulation. That is $18,000. $18,060. The concrete, the 4 inch concrete walk portion of that, a bulk of
that.
Todd Hoffman: 6 inch concrete.
Mike McGarvey: Or I’m sorry, yeah. The 6 inch sidewalk at $6,405. That gets you to $106,000 and
then if I just a small amount of you know mobilization, clearing and grubbing some of the excavation,
you know roughly $110,000. Something like that.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. That’s a fair number. Thank you Mr. McGarvey.
Mike McGarvey: Yep.
Councilman Laufenburger: So if I understand this correctly Mr. Hoffman, if it were possible for us to
separate this one project into two projects, the pedestrian crossing, including the beacon would be roughly
$183,000, or call it $184,000 and the stairway connector $110,000. Is that correct?
Todd Hoffman: Correct.
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Councilman Laufenburger: And you bid this as both elements of that project together, correct? Okay.
Okay. Mr. Hoffman you said that the source of these funds is park dedication funds and if I read the staff
report properly the allocated funds that are currently in place is $205,000 in the CIP. Is that correct?
Todd Hoffman: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So in order to accomplish both portions of this project, the pedestrian
crossing and beacon, flashing beacon and the stairway connector, then we’d have to find some additional
funds. Is that correct?
Todd Hoffman: Correct. Council would have to amend the capital improvement plan to increase that
amount.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Just a moment. Is there any other way to provide a step
access from Highover down to the trail other than the concrete steps? Mr. Hoffman, or Mr. McGarvey.
Is there any other way to provide that access?
Mike McGarvey: You know other than maybe looking at different materials. You know if you go to a
wood stairway, but the, and I’m not sure that that would save a significant amount of money. It may,
there may be some savings in doing it wood but certainly is much less durable at that point.
Councilman Laufenburger: Would require more maintenance over time.
Mike McGarvey: More maintenance over time. Location wise and as far as a means of getting from
Highover down to the trail, stairs is really the only viable option. The outlot in which the watermain and
this stairway would be located I believe is 12 feet wide. Maybe 20 feet wide.
Todd Hoffman: 20 feet wide.
Mike McGarvey: So there’s really no opportunity to do a switchback or any sort of thing so a stairway is
really the only viable option.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And then one last question. My understanding is that, though this is a
public access or planned as a public access and it would not be compliant with the ADA, American
Disabilities Act, it’s not required to comply with the American Disabilities Act, is that correct Mr.
McGarvey?
Mike McGarvey: Correct. There would be alternate access that would provide the same via the trail. It
would just be a longer route.
Councilman Laufenburger: A longer route, okay. Alright.
Mike McGarvey: Those with disabilities would have the same access.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Those are my questions Mr. Mayor. I will yield for other questions
but I do have some other comments after questions.
Mayor Furlong: Continue with questions at this time. Any other questions?
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah, I have some more questions.
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: So I’m interested in knowing how these were not part of the original project is my
first question because it sounds like these were a couple misses as a part of the original project and I’m
curious to know how that happened.
Todd Hoffman: I wouldn’t call it necessarily or characterize them as missed. The County applied for that
grant to complete a trail section. Their conclusion was it should stop at the school and the neighborhood
connection is not part of their responsibility to make that neighborhood connection and so once they made
their application that’s the scope of the project that they had determined was appropriate. The stairway
connector is a local connector. It’s not a part of the county system and for whatever reason they stopped,
their application stopped at the middle school.
Councilwoman Ernst: But did we know that? Didn’t we know that at that time and how did we plan for
that?
Mike McGarvey: Originally when the regional trail project was initiated there was a discussion about
whether or not to include these elements as part of the larger project or to separate them out and the
decision was made to separate them out mainly because in including them with the larger county project
that is federally funded, there are some additional design requirements and procedures that would have to
be taken that would, because of some initial uncertainty about what route the trail connection at the north
end was going to take, the County felt it was better to separate that out and not federalize these elements.
The trail connection to the north or the pedestrian stairway and have them as a separate project because of
the kind, to kind of streamline the process at the time. And as the, when the rapid flashing beacons were
added that added, that did cause some delays in this project obviously from the county project and that
was the concern initially that there were going to be some issues that were unique to this project that
might delay the larger Carver County project and so the decision was made to separate them out.
Councilwoman Ernst: And because they were separated out that was the reason for the additional cost
and that’s why we’re here today talking about it, correct?
Mike McGarvey: No. I think had they been part of the Carver County project.
Councilwoman Ernst: Yep.
Mike McGarvey: They still would have been part, you would have seen the same sort of numbers. I
mean the City still would have paid for that portion of the project.
Councilwoman Ernst: But you decided that, they decided not to federalize it. With those costs, right?
Mike McGarvey: The County was, the City was always going to pay for this portion of the project. If
that makes sense. Whether it was going to be part of the larger County project or whether it was going to
be a separate, it was still going to be a City cost as Todd mentioned.
Mayor Furlong: So what were the concerns at the north end at the crossing and the trail connection that
you said something about there was uncertainly with regard to the design…
Mike McGarvey: Initially we.
Mayor Furlong: …throughout the entire project potentially.
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Mike McGarvey: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Or the funding, who was paying for it?
Mike McGarvey: There would have, the initial concern was, the initial discussion about connecting to,
making the connection. There’s the one connection to Chaska Road. The other connection and the idea
for the crossing of 41 is to make a connection up to Highway 7. And at the time it was not certain
whether the connection to Highway 7 was going to be along the east side of 41, and or whether it would
be on the west side of 41 and include the crossing. If it were on the east side of 41 there would have been
wetland impacts. Additional wetland impacts associated with this aspect of the project and there would
have been some challenges with crossing elements of 7. Crossing a turn lane. The free right onto 7 and
potentially modifications of the entire 7 and 41 intersection to accommodate pedestrian traffic if it were to
be on the east side. If we went to the west side it adds the pedestrian crossing of 41 and we did not know
at that point where MnDOT felt was going to be the best way to do it and so we were soliciting input
from them and we were concerned about how long that process may take and whether it would cause you
know excessive delay in trying to get the project through MnDOT review of improvements at the 7 and
41 intersection. Wetland impact review, etc, etc and so the decision was made to separate it out from the
County project.
Mayor Furlong: Okay so those uncertainties with regard to design could have caused delays in terms of
the project moving forward. From a funding standpoint, going through the TAB, did that separate any of
these portions out? Did that reduce any of the grant dollars that were made available to the, Mr. Hoffman
you’re shaking your head.
Todd Hoffman: No it did not.
Mayor Furlong: Okay so help us, and maybe go back. You started talking about the 41 trail. The
underpass trail inside the regional park. How were those funds allocated and the, and who’s paying for
what?
Todd Hoffman: Sure. I think another way to answer Councilwoman Ernst, her question is that the larger
project’s being paid for by the City. We’re involved in that financially. The County and then the federal
grant of about a million dollars. And so whether or not this work was included in the larger project or
now this separated smaller project, it would still be at a City cost. And so it’s not that it’s extra dollars or
additional dollars. It’s City work that would have been paid for by the City under the larger project or
now separated under this separate and independent project. It’s an extension of the work that was started
under the much larger County, City trail project. So we are involved. We’re paying right now
approximately $800,000 in City funds for the larger project and then it would be this 293 for this
additional project.
Mayor Furlong: And the funds that the City’s paying Mr. Hoffman, those generally a portion of the
underpass and then the trail on the, on 41.
Todd Hoffman: On the east side of 41.
Mayor Furlong: East side of 41.
Todd Hoffman: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: County’s covering costs inside the park and then the County and City and federal funds.
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Todd Hoffman: Are split.
Mayor Furlong: Are split, okay.
Councilman Laufenburger: It’s just the underpass. I think the underpass is split between the City and
County too, is that correct?
Todd Hoffman: Correct.
Mike McGarvey: Correct.
Todd Gerhardt: And that’s what the federal dollars were used for was for the underpass.
Mike McGarvey: And the federal application was from Longacres to the school and that was the limit of
the federal project.
Mayor Furlong: And one of the questions is had the federal project included these two elements it would
not have provided an opportunity for additional funding through federal grant dollars.
Mike McGarvey: Correct. The federal funding, it was funded at the maximum for that particular grant
and so there would not have been any additional funds allocated towards that.
Todd Hoffman: And the stairway connector would not be included. Would not be eligible for those type
of funds.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Okay, any other questions? Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah, in the aggregate when we look at all the money that the park dedication
fund was for for this total project, where are we at as far as a deficiency now? I mean we’ve saved some
money it sounds like on the larger county project. How much of those savings can come over and help
pay for this or are we still at a deficit?
Todd Hoffman: We’re still at a deficit actually in both of those. The larger county project, those costs
have accelerated over time and so that fund’s also going to be overspent from what was originally
allocated in the CIP.
Councilman McDonald: And the other question I have, if we didn’t do the stairway, what’s the access for
everyone, and part of that question is, stairs are built mainly for pedestrians. I mean bike riders and
people with scooters and carriages and those things aren’t going to be able to use them anyway. How, or
we would discourage it. How are they supposed to get onto the trail?
Todd Hoffman: You have the top of the stairway, you either go north to Lake Lucy Road and then loop
your way back to the bottom of the stair and that’s just over a mile, that route from this point going down
Highover Drive to the north and then looping back around.
Todd Gerhardt: Todd, can you show that on the other map?
Todd Hoffman: Sure. This is the stairway location here. If you don’t take the stairway or walk your bike
down along the stairway then you bike back to the north on Highover to Lake Lucy. Take the Lake Lucy
trail, which is a city trail to the county regional trail on Highway 41 and then back south. Or you also
have the option to go south. The new development is not shown but there’s a trail connection that takes
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
you down to the Longacres neighborhood and so you would travel this way and then along Longacres
Boulevard to Longacres Drive and then back north up to the park entrance, and this is about a mile and a
quarter to get to this direction.
Councilman Laufenburger: You mentioned this route and that would be the route that bikes would take
but any wheeled vehicle. Baby stroller.
Todd Hoffman: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Wheelchair. Anything like that. Is that correct?
Todd Hoffman: Correct. Unless you can pick it up and carry it down the stairs, you’re absolutely correct.
Mayor Furlong: So the, in terms of the location of the stairs and maybe go back to the picture you had up
just before that one. The stairs come on right, is that the underpass that we’re looking at right there into
the regional park?
Todd Hoffman: Right here.
Mayor Furlong: And it’s roughly halfway inbetween Lake Lucy Road and Longacres Road?
Todd Hoffman: Roughly.
Mayor Furlong: Roughly. And this area here inbetween the lots, that was preserved as part of the plat?
nd
Todd Hoffman: Correct. The 2 Addition of Highover.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So was that included I assume then in the trail system plan or comprehensive
plan for our trails within the city as part of what’s gone through the Park and Recreation Commission.
Todd Hoffman: Correct. These neighborhood connections are not always on the comprehensive plan.
What would be on the comp plan would show a sidewalk in Highover and then the trail down here. These
are typically taken during the development process to ensure that the neighborhood’s going to connect to
the trail system and so you have approximately 100 homes in the Highover Addition. Some will choose
to make this direct connection to get to the regional park. Others will be closer to the ends and they’ll
simply loop around and go down in the other direction. So you have a public easement, but for the
stairway it’s really, even if there wasn’t a public access there, it depends on the neighborhood. Some kids
would cut through because they know that tunnel’s down there, they’re going to cut through anyway. But
if the easement’s not improved it’s really not going to be known as a public access point for the
pedestrians or others to utilize that connection point.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Hoffman, if I may Mr. Mayor. It’s appropriate to identify that when this
thth
came to the council on February 10. Or I think it’s February 13 as a matter of fact for review, it came
here with a recommendation from the parks and recreation commission, is that correct?
Todd Hoffman: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: The recommendation, if I’m not mistaken was 5 to 2 in favor of building the
stairway connector. Is that correct?
Todd Hoffman: (Yes).
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Councilman Laufenburger: And the information that the parks and recreation commission had at that
time was this project, using park dedication funds in the amount of approximately, again the stairway
only, in the amount of approximately $65,000 to $70,000. Is that correct?
Todd Hoffman: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: That was the information that they had at that time. Has the, with this new
estimate in the form of a bid of now, and I’m using Mr. McGarvey’s number of about $110,000, does this
new information, has it been brought back to the parks and recreation commission for additional review
and possible recommendation or not?
Todd Hoffman: No.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So the only information that they had is the same information that we
had back on February 10th when we approved moving forward with a cost of approximately $65,000 to
$70,000.
Todd Hoffman: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Have you discussed or heard from any of the commission members and shared any of
this information with them?
Todd Hoffman: Just informally over by email I let them know that the bids did come in higher than the
estimate and that it would be at council for approval tonight if they wanted the opportunity to come and
talk to the council they could do that here this evening. And that would be normal. Once the
recommendation comes from the commission that the council advertised for bids and the bids come in,
there is no precedent that those bids would go back to the commission for additional review at that time.
Mayor Furlong: But you also as a normal process communicated with them so they were informed.
Todd Hoffman: Informed.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Todd, can you tell me, so I want to go back to Councilman Laufenburger’s
question when he asked what our options were and I know you talked about wood steps but what if, I
mean I don’t know what that would like in terms of grade if we made it a trail and can we make it a trail?
And if so, what does that look like in terms of cost compared to what we’re talking about here today?
Todd Hoffman: Yeah, trail would be cheaper but to take a trail down this kind of grade and then into a T,
so you’d be coming straight down this hill into a T on a trail just would not be something that I would
recommend that we would be involved with.
Councilwoman Ernst: And why is that?
Councilman McDonald: Well could you, what is the grade? The percent grade.
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah, what is the grade?
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Mike McGarvey: It is I’d say 3 to 1 grade. You can barely walk that as it is.
Councilwoman Ernst: But you could.
Todd Hoffman: It’s a safety issue with bikes. Wheeled vehicles going down the hill.
Mike McGarvey: Yeah. A typical max grade for ADA is 5%.
Councilman Laufenburger: Which would be 20 to 1. Or 1 to 20.
Mike McGarvey: 1 to 20. And the preferred is 1 to 20. The maximum is 1 to 12 or 8 1/3 percent. At 3
to 1 you’re talking about 30%. 25-30 percent grade. It would not meet any sort of accepted standard for
a trail.
Councilman Laufenburger: And to be fair, this is not a straight grade. It actually looks a little bit like a
saucer. I mean it’s steeper at the front and then it kind of flattens out as it gets near the bottom, right?
Mike McGarvey: Yeah. It’s very steep. You could not make a trail work there that would meet any sort
of accepted standard.
Councilwoman Ernst: And so what you’re saying is that’s the best you could do with a trail in terms of
the grade? You couldn’t level that out any more than that 1 to 20.
Mike McGarvey: Not within the 20 feet that you have there to work with, no.
Councilwoman Ernst: And then I want to go back to Councilman McDonald’s question when he asked
what if we didn’t do the steps. What then?
Todd Hoffman: In regards to the project or the bidding or?
Councilwoman Ernst: Both.
Mike McGarvey: I think that given that it’s a major component of the project, we could possibly
negotiate with the contractor to see about taking it out. It’d be a change order. You know it’s a major
component. I’m not sure whether we could do that but we could look into that. You probably wouldn’t
get the full $110,000 back if you were to do so given the fact that you know they would I think look for
you know recouping some of their costs or their profit that was built into that.
Councilman Laufenburger: To say it another way is, if we were to give Midwest Asphalt an opportunity
to exclude the stairway connector it’s likely that the product of the pedestrian crossing and the flashing
beacon alone would be greater than $184,000, which is your estimate of how much that is. Is that what
you’re saying?
Mike McGarvey: Yeah I mean of the $110,000 you might maybe get, they say you give a credit of
$80,000 or something of that sort.
Councilwoman Ernst: I guess I’m confused why this happened without coming before council to approve
for the additional cost to begin with. I’m confused by that. I don’t.
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Todd Hoffman: When we reviewed it, Councilwoman Ernst when we reviewed it at the 205 it was the
council had directed us to add some of the additional amount. Additional costs and so that took it from
the 205 into 250 and then it’s just the bid amount above that so we could not have forecasted the, that the
bid amount was going to be the 298 over the 254 so there was, the council took action to add the flashing
beacon which raised the probable cost of the project and then beyond that we, now we have these bids and
so we didn’t have an opportunity other than today to talk to you about the fact that the bids were higher
than the estimate and that if we want to do the project we’re going to need to raise the budget.
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions at this time? Or have comments or questions Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah, I’ve got one. I’m sure back in the beginning there were public meetings
on all this. What’s the support within the neighborhood and what’s the feeling within the neighborhood
as to how important this element or this particular project would be to them and the trail?
Todd Hoffman: Councilman McDonald, there are people in the neighborhood that would just as soon not
have the stairway and then there are a variety of people in the neighborhood that I’ve talked to over quite
some time actually that, they watched the approval process go through the Planning Commission, the
nd
Park Commission and the Council for the 2 Addition and the stairway connector would go in there so
they’re anticipating that the stairway connection will be included with the neighborhood so it’s not a
unanimous support one way or the other. There are those that support it. There are those that are not in
favor of it and so it’s not unanimous one way or the other.
Councilman McDonald: Okay then I’ve got a follow-up. At the other end down at the pedestrian
crossing I remember the conversations about that and why we added the flashing stuff to make it safer
because of you know children crossing but if we didn’t do that portion what’s your fear? Are they going
to go ahead and create a crossing at that point or what’s going to happen down there if that leg of it isn’t
done?
Todd Gerhardt: Todd, would you put the map up. Right now we’re building a trail that would take you
down to Chaska Road and you have an existing trail to the west of Chaska Road.
Mayor Furlong: Can you put the full corridor map up too? Keep that lying there.
Todd Gerhardt: So Todd if you could point out what’s existing and what’s proposed to be new.
Mayor Furlong: Existing mean the current 41 project?
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah.
Todd Hoffman: Yeah. The current project terminates at the school driveway so it stops right here, and
there is an existing crosswalk right at that location so it’s just a striped crosswalk. It’s not used very
much because it’s just really not recognized as a pedestrian crossing. And then.
Todd Gerhardt: But we don’t have a trail on the west side there correct?
Todd Hoffman; No, we don’t have a trail there.
Todd Gerhardt: I think that was used for the middle school students to get access to the park.
Todd Hoffman: So the school entrance is here. The county trail stops at that location. If we stopped the
trail, if we don’t do our project then people will come up this trail and they’ll just go on the shoulder of
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Highway 41 to gain access either to our pedestrian crossing, which our trail goes on the west side. So we
have a trail.
Mike McGarvey: There’s actually an existing crossing where the county trail will end right at the
driveway.
Todd Hoffman: There’s an existing ped crossing here. It’s a striped on 41. So we said we need to
continue this to Chaska Road. Not just to get across the street to our existing trail connection, and if you
think about this point, this is a significant pivot point. It’s the top of the lake. It’s the top of the park. It’s
really the only pedestrian, it’s the way to get around the corner and so lots of pedestrians, both from the
west and from the east are channeled to this location and so it’s not a minor pedestrian crossing. It’s a
significant pedestrian crossing because there’s lot of population that is channeled through that particular
point to get around the northeast corner of the lake and the park. And then you also have Chaska Road
which goes back and feeds many neighborhoods, residential neighborhoods back to the east. So we said
we need to continue that trail from the school driveway to Chaska Road and then construct a pedestrian
crossing that’s going to service that pedestrian intersection and so that’s what this is. It shows the safe
island in the center. The connection to the trail on the west side. The connection to the regional shopping
center or the neighborhood shopping center and then the connection north to Highway 7. So the folks on
Highway 7 are excited about coming back to the south to get into our system. School kids can get back
across Highway 7 to the north to go to the mall and so those are the improvements and the flashing
beacon arms would go right here at this pedestrian crossing. Under the current bid you would press a
button. The beacons would flash. You would watch for traffic. Cross to the safe center island then cross
again on the southbound lanes. So that’s the other half of the project.
Mayor Furlong: The trail connection that goes to the west of 41 there Todd that you drew in, where does
that connect to?
Todd Hoffman: That connects to the neighborhood and then into really the north Lake Minnewashta
neighborhoods. Let’s pull up another map. So it just connects into all these neighborhoods and the
Highway 7 trail and so the Highway 7 trail comes around. All the neighborhoods on the north side of
Minnewashta, Lake Minnewashta connect in and then this is the actual flat line and so this is the Highway
7 trail that goes on the interior streets and works it’s way around over to this crossing. So again this is
kind of a pinch point, this Highway 7. The black line. The Highway 7 trail and then all this pedestrian
movements and so what we’re really trying to get at is the regional trail system that gets you all the way
around Lake Minnewashta and this is one component. This crossing of Highway 41 and the crossings at
Highway 5, the pedestrian tunnel at the Arboretum and Minnewashta Parkway right here so people are
already doing the route around Lake Minnewashta. This trail connection will provide a much more
pleasant experience in doing so.
Councilman McDonald: Is there an access into the north side of Minnewashta Park there, or public
access when you get into the north edge right there?
Todd Hoffman: There’s an informal access. A neighborhood access right here at Herman Field Park but
it’s not a formalized access that’s recognized by their master plan but the neighborhood does use it.
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions for staff? Okay, thank you. Let’s bring it to council for discussion.
Comments. Who wants to comment? Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. First of all I want to thank Mr. Hoffman and Mr.
th
McGarvey for providing an excellent overview of what this project is. At our February 10, oh by the
th
way the beacon was added to the project on the June 13 council meeting so that’s when it came before
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
the council to add the flashing beacon and that was part of the consent agenda so in fact it had come to the
th
council. At our February 13 council meeting when this topic came up for review I had raised questions
about the public value versus, or the public benefit versus the cost of this project when it was originally
estimated at $65,000. I separate, in my mind I separate the north end of the project is clearly public safety
and I support that. The south end of the project, which is a stairway connector, I contribute that to a
public convenience and that’s where my question is. I believe now that we know that this cost of this
portion of the project is greater than $100,000 and by Mr. McGarvey’s estimates $110,000, we should
give further consideration as to the public value versus the public cost of this connector. Now I
understand that according to reports there’s an implied agreement, as Mr. Hoffman suggested, to the
homeowners in the area that a trail connector would eventually be made and I also understand that it is
not a requirement that this stairway be ADA compliant and the cost of such compliance, as Mr. Hoffman
has told us earlier, would be substantially higher and require more land than is currently available in the
outlot and the right-of-way. As I reviewed the parks and recreation committee minutes I noticed that
there was public comment about the stairway’s lack of appeal to both wheelchair users and to baby
strollers. Now I recognize the significant additional distance that those living adjacent to the proposed
trail would have to travel to get to the regional park, either going north to Lake Lucy or south to
Longacres. However, the stairway would offer no value whatsoever to those encumbered by wheelchairs
and less than full value to those with baby strollers and bikes. Also when we build this stairway we’d be
incurring maintenance of the steps over time, shoveling, plowing, eventually replacing the stairs. There
would be some usable life for some number of years. So, and then there’s the subject of the watermain
beneath these proposed stairs, if it were necessary to either repair or replace the watermain the stairway
would not have to be moved but we would have to, what’s the word you used Mr. Hoffman? Interject?
Todd Hoffman: Directionally bore.
Councilman Laufenburger: Directionally bore another watermain if it were necessary to replace that. So
as is the case throughout the year, but it’s brought more to the forefront of our thinking during what I
would call this budgeting season, I think we are to be fiscally responsible in our decisions as to benefit,
what will benefit the entire community of Chanhassen. I believe that this $110,000 of spending that the
City could and should remove from our plans, I believe this is fiscally responsible thing to do for the City
and I would not support going forward. And I would also consider, if the council would agree, I would
consider sending this project back to the parks and recreation commission so that they could evaluate
$110,000 of park dedication funds for this versus the original $65,000. A full, almost 80% increase and I
think that if that were the case the parks and recreation commission would likely say there’s better use of
our $110,000 than this stairway connector. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other comments. Thoughts. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: I concur with Councilman Laufenburger. You know I would challenge you to see
what we can do to take the $110,000 out and still accomplish what we need to do there and I don’t, I
know we can, we asked those questions to you tonight. You haven’t had a lot of time to put a lot of
thought into it but I would like you to challenge yourselves in terms of what you might be able to do in
place of the steps because I agree. The $110,000 I don’t, I don’t think is reasonable and I would not
support this either.
Mayor Furlong: Other discussion points. Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I think in my time being on the council I’ve learned that this council does a
really good job of determining wishes and needs and sometimes even timing. …going to throw the
monitor at me. And I just feel that this is probably one of those times where this is more of a wish than a
need. If we’re already working with a deficit when it comes to funding this project, it probably doesn’t
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
make a whole lot of sense to get even deeper into that kind of hole so I support Councilman
Laufenburger’s thoughts and comments also that it’s probably not the right time right now for this type of
expense but I think maybe there’s time to revisit it in the future.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Well I agree with Councilman Laufenburger. The north end of this was public
safety and you know that did drive some of the costs and I understand that. Also understand that we’re
not going to get it for the same price and you know for that exact same reason I too would like to see it go
back as separate projects. You know if we can break it apart and approve it that way and maybe get a
cost for the pedestrian crossing. The stairs, I’m not sure that’s a good solution. There’s a lot of liability
there because kids are going to use it for bikes and you’re right, it’s too steep a grade for bikes. It’s too
dangerous but people will take a shortcut. Everybody knows that and you know I think we need to come
up with a safer way of doing that. And I think you’ve got a bigger problem here. I mean you came to us
with, what was it $205,000 for the entire project. It’s now up to $293,000. Where was that extra money
going to come from? I mean no matter what it just looks as though there’s a lot of things here that don’t
make this an easily doable project. I would be in support of the north end of this and I do understand that
that’s going to cost more but again it is a safety issue and again just like with the stairs, individuals will
create a crossing whether we put one there or not and I would just as soon that it be you know something
safe for everybody to cross at so the bigger danger to me is at 41 than it is at these stairs so, and I don’t
know what you can do to take care of the stairs. I mean what, you could put a, you could cut a valley in
there but how much would that cost and what’s the cost to maintain all that and then that kind of takes
care of the watermain problem, which you know we’ve had another problem with. I don’t know that
there’s an easy solution for this. I understand that it is a big inconvenience to people that live within that
general area but as my fellow council members have said, at some point you’ve got to weigh the
convenience against the cost and I think that’s what we’re going to have to do here but I’d like to see the
project broken up so that maybe we could move forward with at least the north end of this project.
Mayor Furlong: Question I have Mr. Hoffman, Mr. Gerhardt, others. Is it possible to accept a portion of
the project as it’s detailed out and not let a portion of what’s been bid?
Todd Gerhardt: I’ve talked with the city attorney regarding this and it was his recommendation to either
accept the bid or reject the bid and.
Mayor Furlong: In it’s entirety. Not.
Todd Gerhardt: Correct. You cannot piecemeal based on the way the plans and specs were put together
on this project.
Mayor Furlong: And in terms of, if there was, if the direction was to reject this bid in it’s entirety and
split up the project into two separate bid packages, is that possible to do? Is that reasonable to do or
would you bid one with an alternate or how would you, what would be the way to do that and what would
be the timing associated with both of those?
Todd Gerhardt: The timing would, to go out to re-advertise, my guess it would be 2 months before you
would have bids back before you.
Mayor Furlong: So this would be a spring project then.
Todd Gerhardt: Correct.
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Mayor Furlong: By not accepting this bid it’s next year.
Todd Gerhardt: Correct. And you could do it as a bid alternate on the stairs. On the beacon and separate
and get a true cost for each of those and then at that time you could you know award both, one or neither.
Mayor Furlong: Well and I guess my, is it likely if you went out with two packages, are you likely to
increase the overall cost or could you have one company bid on one portion and another company bid on
a second portion if they’re, you know if a company specializes in trails and crossings and another
specializes in stairs.
Todd Gerhardt: Well when you do a bid alternate you’re going to get subcontractors that would work
with the prime. In this case the prime would have been Midwest and they may have worked with a
subcontractor to do the stairs and electrical so I don’t think you need to have separate bid packages. I
think doing one together kind of accomplishes that.
Mayor Furlong: The, okay.
Councilman Laufenburger: I have a question.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Is the, have the bids now been made a matter of public record so Midwest
and Minnesota State and Rosti are aware of that? Okay. So Rosti and Minnesota State are aware that
Midwest Asphalt is the low bidder?
Todd Hoffman: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. In reference to Mr. Knutson’s recommendation that we either accept
the bid or reject the bid, could we possibly have a discussion with Midwest Asphalt asking them if they
would accept a change order that excludes the stairway connector elements after we award the bid? What
I’m suggesting here Mr. Mayor, and I’m looking for your good counsel on this Mr. Hoffman, Mr.
McGarvey and Mr. Gerhardt, could we table action on this until we get an affirmative response from
Midwest Asphalt that they would allow the exclusion of the stairway connector? You understand my
question Mr. Hoffman?
Todd Hoffman: Sure. Councilman Laufenburger, and again what I think would be appropriate for the
council if they want to go in some sort of direction is they award the bid to Midwest. Ask us to look for a
change order bid to delete the steps. Bring that price to you and then go forward with the project with that
change order deleting the steps. We don’t know what that number would be. At this point it would be a
negotiation between us and Midwest.
Mayor Furlong: I would ask.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah, excuse me Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Is that what I heard from Mr. Gerhardt is that it’s either accept or reject. It’s not.
Councilman Laufenburger: A conditional. It’s not a conditional acceptance.
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Councilman McDonald: If we accept the bid we’re stuck with the bid. If they don’t agree to do the
change order we’re stuck with that bid and they’re doing the total project so that’s why we either accept it
or we reject it. There is no piecemeal in this.
Councilman Laufenburger: Good counsel there Mr. McDonald.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. You know I hear and respect the advice of the other members of the council. I’m
clearly disappointed, not in terms of the direction that this is going from a standpoint, not from a
monetary standpoint. I mean nobody wants to spend more money than we have to spend but in terms of
the direction we’re going. I think we’re, it’s not the right direction in terms of the overall comprehensive
plan. There are different pieces and parts of our trail system that cost more and less than others and what
we do and what we’ve done regularly is look at ways to connect neighborhoods to our trail system.
We’ve looked at ways to connect neighborhoods to neighborhoods and sometimes it costs more to do that
than others. Here unfortunately we’re dealing with, given the name of the neighborhood, Highover,
we’ve got some grades that we have to deal with. When I hear the engineer say the only viable solution is
a stairs, you know I think about others parts of our city. We’ve got some other trails that are fairly steep
and you know what, they’re not safe. It’s not the right way to go. While it’s unfortunate that the bids
came in much higher than what was estimated, it’s an estimate. That happens and I think that that’s why
you go out for bid and you bid it competitively. I think that the stairs and the crossing are both key
components to this whole area in terms of trail access, pedestrian access and I guess I’m disappointed.
My suggestion would be, given what I’ve heard is that we rebid this and perhaps with a spring project we
may see some better bidding. The net effect, while we’ve broken off the cost of 110 and 180 we know, or
we expect that that’s not the true cost. The true cost of the stairs is something less than the 110 and so
we’re gaining some value by doing the project together and doing it at this time. Costs are rising.
Bidding process costs. I heard are reversing the trends from the last few years where it’s likely or
possible that we’re going to see some higher costs next year. It will be a delay and while I certainly
understand the situation which we’re discussing this, unfortunately the delay in getting this done has not
been on our part but in getting the plans approved through various agencies and it’s to the extent that
that’s increased our cost, those are some of the things that we have to deal with so I’m disappointed with
the direction it’s going. I think both of these are key aspects to our overall trail system and clearly with
regard to, you know we’re looking at a delay now. Another delay on the pedestrian crossing. Probably til
next spring sometime. It was our expectation this would be here for the school year. Now it likely won’t
be and I think that’s disappointing to me so, those are my comments. I would certainly, in spite of all the
concerns, I still think overall in the grand scheme of things, all things considered it would make sense to
move forward. But at this point if there’s no other discussion certainly entertain a motion.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: I move that the City reject the Trunk Highway 41 trail extension and stairway
connector project. Reject the award of, to Midwest Asphalt and at this time period.
Councilwoman Ernst: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Any discussion on the motion? I would ask if there’s any intention on the part of the
council to rebid the project. And I would certainly make a motion, or an amendment to the motion to do
that. That the project would be rebid with the staircase as an alternate.
Councilman McDonald: Well if I could, as I understood what Councilman Laufenburger was saying, I
thought that’s what he wanted to do was to go back and redo this and send it back to Park and Rec.
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Mayor Furlong: That isn’t what I heard in the motion.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah. What you heard was a motion that was consistent with the language
that Mr. Knutson suggested that either we reject this bid or we accept this bid and my motion is that we
reject this bid. That’s the only action that I’m suggesting at this time.
Mayor Furlong: What would be the process Mr. Gerhardt? With a simple rejection is there typically then
a process to move forward after that or would the project be done? From the City staff standpoint.
Todd Gerhardt: It would be done until council asked that it be brought back.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilman McDonald: And if I could ask, would that have to be another separate motion or can that be
part of this motion?
Todd Gerhardt: It could be separate or a part. Either.
Mayor Furlong: My thought is, and as long as we’re discussing the motion, you know if the motion is to
reject then let’s at least direct staff to rebid with the stairs as an alternate. The plans are already in place.
The work has already been done and I would suggest that the timing of that bidding, we work with staff
to, you know it doesn’t mean that we have to go out this week and you know work with staff to direct
them to rebid at what they believe would be the best opportune time to get the best value.
Councilman Laufenburger: Well Mr. Mayor as the maker of the motion I would support either an
amendment or a separate motion to that effect but my motion remains and that is I recommend rejection
of this bid.
Councilman McDonald: And Mr. Mayor what I guess I would suggest is that, and I’m more than willing
to make a separate motion after this motion to readdress the issue but I think I do agree with Councilman
Laufenburger that we do need to keep this clean and we’re either going to accept or reject and then we
can decide what we want to do from there.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. That sounds fine. Any other discussion on the motion? Hearing none we’ll
proceed with the vote.
Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded to reject the bids for the TH 41
Trail Extension and Stairway Connector Project. All voted in favor, except Mayor Furlong who
opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Yes Your Honor, or Mr. Mayor. Sorry.
Mayor Furlong: That’s alright.
Councilman McDonald: Elevating you a little bit higher than what you actually are. What I’d like to do
is make a motion that we, well he’s not a Judge. Sorry. Spent too much time in court last week. What I
would like to do is make a motion that we direct staff to relook at this project and to really kind of put it
into two pieces so that we can get a good understanding of the true cost of both elements of this, both the
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
stairs and the northern crossing and at that point what City Council can do is make an election as to how
we want to go out and bid for this project. If we want to do it in a couple of different segments or if we
want to go out and try to do it all at once again.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Motion’s been made. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any discussion on that motion? Hearing none we’ll
proceed with the vote.
Councilwoman Ernst: I’m sorry…
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: With that in mind, it’s an amendment right? Or is that…
Councilman McDonald: No, it’s a separate motion.
Councilwoman Ernst: So with that in mind can we, and I don’t know how we would do this but can we
say that somehow that, and maybe there just comes a time when we vote on it, to make it actually come in
under $110,000 but we won’t know that until we can take it out to bid right?
Councilman McDonald: Right. Until staff actually puts together the specs for what this is going to be
and you go out for a bid.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. Private sector has that luxury of saying not to exceed dollar amount. Public we’re
whatever bids come in at.
Councilwoman Ernst: Why can’t we do that? I mean seriously we can’t put that in there? Not to
exceed.
Todd Gerhardt: We can, under park and rec rules when you’re looking for playgrounds you can request
for proposals for playgrounds but you have to have an itemized bid when it comes to projects like this.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah, I would suggest you talk to counsel and I’m pretty sure you’re going to
find out because of the nature of this bid you can’t put restrictions on it. All you can do is put a
specification out there and what comes back comes back and we either accept or reject, the same as we’re
doing today.
Todd Gerhardt: Correct. Right now park and rec equipment is the only thing out there where you can
kind of solicit proposals on give me your best estimate for this or alternative and you can’t do that on
roads, bridges, stairs.
Councilwoman Ernst: So potentially this could come under $10,000 of what we’re talking about today or
it could be higher?
Todd Gerhardt: (Yes). I can tell you that we went out to rebid the water meters and they came under than
the original estimate. The information’s out there on what people bid. People will use that when they put
their next bid together and so you know, but I can’t sit here and tell you it’s going to be less or more.
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Councilwoman Ernst: Right.
Todd Gerhardt: Fuel prices can play a factor. Insulation could double again and so you know.
Councilwoman Ernst: I think the only way we could do that is to say not to exceed but I had no idea that
we couldn’t put that in there.
Todd Gerhardt: Right.
Mayor Furlong: Any other discussion on the motion? So the motion Mr. McDonald is to authorize staff
to, could you repeat the motion?
Councilman McDonald: The motion at this point is to authorize staff to relook at this project and to
actually break it into two pieces. The northern half, and so we can get a true cost of what that is and also
let’s look at the stairs as a separate element also so that they may bid it as a total package but at least what
we can do is we would have the option to accept or reject the pieces and we would also know what those
pieces cost.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, and what we will do is put a spec together that will include the trail and the stairs
as one and, or the trail and the cross arm. The flashing beacon as one and the stairs as a bid alternate and
we will bring those plans and specs back to council for approval. You will approve those and authorize
staff to go out to bid so if that’s what your motion includes I understand.
Councilman McDonald: That’s what it includes.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any other discussion? Hearing none we’ll proceed
with the vote.
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded to authorize staff to prepare
plans and specifications for the TH 41 northern trail section and flashing beacon with the stair
connector as a bid alternate. All voted in favor, except Councilwoman Ernst who opposed, and the
motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS:
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman McDonald: Thank you. We’ll start down at this end. No, he’s going to yield to me. The
only thing I have is that you know this past weekend I did go to the State Fair and I went there using
Southwest Transit and I went down to the Chanhassen Station and I guess what I’m learning is that most
people don’t know about that little secret yet to go down there so what I would you know recommend and
strongly urge you know fellow citizens to do is yeah, come down and use the Chanhassen Station so that
we can load up the buses at this spot instead of having to drive over to the Village and then down to Eden
Prairie but yeah attendance I guess has been off and part of it is probably because people just don’t know
you can catch the bus from here at Chanhassen at the Dinner Theater and then ride down to the fair so I
would just put that word out there that it would be good. It’s convenient and you know the buses are
great.
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council I just want to preface that by saying I believe it’s Saturday, Sunday and
Labor Day you can go to the Chanhassen Station or the Southwest station down at 212 and 101.
Mayor Furlong: That’s correct.
Todd Gerhardt: Monday through Friday you have to go to Wooddale Church in Eden Prairie to grab the
Southwest Transit bus to the Fair so I found that out.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, very good. Anything else at this time?
Councilman McDonald: That’s all I have.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. I have in my possession a letter that I received from
the Chanhassen Historical Society Board of Directors. I’d like to read a portion of it just for the record.
The board members of the Chanhassen Historical Society request that City Council and City staff gives
consideration towards honoring Mr. Al Klingelhutz by naming the new picnic shelter on top of a hill at
Lake Ann the Al Klingelhutz Picnic Pavilion. Most council members and staff are aware of Al’s efforts
towards the City’s original acquisition of the Lake Ann property as well as his years of service with the
city, the township and the county. Thank you for your consideration, Sincerely, Chanhassen Historical
Society Board of Directors. I believe that the permanent renaming of the Hilltop Picnic Shelter to the Al
Klingelhutz Picnic Pavilion with appropriate plaque and/or signage would be a fitting honor to bestow on
the memory of Mr. Chanhassen and the legacy of public service that Al contributed to this community. I
would ask that this request and the appropriate city policy which governs the renaming of public facilities
be made an agenda item at a future work session or council meeting Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you and that’s something that you called me about and certainly we’ll do that.
Mr. Gerhardt will get that on a future work session or agenda as appropriate to follow that up.
Todd Gerhardt: Sure.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other council presentations? One I’d like to ask Mr. Oehme, we have
some projects in place. Road projects in place. Highway 5 I think is re-opened or will be re-opening this
week, if that’s correct and we’ve got an underpass aspect to that project.
Paul Oehme: Yep, that’s correct. Highway 5, thank you Mayor, City Council members. Highway 5 is
planning to be open end of this week here. The grand opening I believe is Thursday in the City of
Victoria so the bridge in Victoria and the sink hole in Victoria, that section of Highway 5 will be opened
it is anticipated this week so Highway 5 from 41 all the way into Victoria is currently opened and
accessible so, and the underpass is currently open. However there’s still construction going on there so
we’d advise that pedestrians don’t use that underpass at this time. It will be completed here in the next 2
weeks or so.
Mayor Furlong: I think it’s, is it Wednesday evening for the?
Paul Oehme: I’m sorry.
Mayor Furlong: For the reception.
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Chanhassen City Council – August 27, 2012
Paul Oehme: I believe you’re right.
Mayor Furlong: Out at Victoria. So, okay. Very good. Any issues or concerns with that project at all?
Paul Oehme: No, absolutely not. They’re still working on Lone Cedar Lane out there. There’s some
construction there that’s anticipated to be wrapped up this week into next so still a little bit of work going
on there but the project has been going fairly smoothly.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, very good. Thank you. And we talked a little bit in the work session but the
local street project up in north part of Lake Minnewashta, Minnewashta Heights neighborhood. How’s
that going?
Paul Oehme: That’s going fairly well too. We had some delays in terms of the weather lately but we’re
still on schedule. About half the city streets that we are reconstructing are now paved. Most of the
sanitary sewer improvements, in conjunction with the project are in now so there’s a little storm sewer left
and some watermain left on Dogwood and Elm Tree left so we are anticipating maybe another 3 weeks
before those streets will be paved and restored as well with driveways so.
Mayor Furlong: And any concerns or problems with, that the residents are having with the project?
Paul Oehme: Not that I’m aware of. I mean there’s always little access issues that we always have to
deal with on a daily basis, depending upon where the contractor is digging. Out in front of people’s
driveways or out in front of their homes so, and water service, you know switching from temporary
service to permanent service and vice versa. There’s always some hiccups there but we’ve worked
through those issues and you know I think the property owners overall have been real supportive of it and
have worked well with, and this contractor’s worked well with the residents.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, very good. Thank you. Any other council presentations? Discussion.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
Todd Gerhardt: Just one. Recognize our City to the east, Eden Prairie in being ranked number 3 in
Money Magazine this year for communities over 40,000 in population and under I think it’s 100,000 or
80,000.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, congratulations to them. Any questions for Mr. Gerhardt?
CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION.
None.
Mayor Furlong: We will be continuing our work session items where we recessed from that, immediately
following this meeting. If there’s nothing else to come before the council this evening, is there a motion
to adjourn?
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded to adjourn the meeting. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City Council meeting
was adjourned at 8:30 p.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim
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