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1a-1Final Plat for Stone Creek First Addition 92-9 / i 4 C ITYOF ....„ 1 iii CHANHASSEN I , 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739 I MEMORAND M action by CRr esidorsed � V.! A _ TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager I Rel FROM: Kate Aanenson, Senior Planner Data ect =3 Dave Hempel, Assistant City Engineer Date Submitted to Com 1 DATE: February 18, 1993 Dote Submitted to Comet! :21 -ri 3 1 SUBJ: Final Plat for Stone Creek First Addition Project No. 92 -9 1 On April 29, 1992, the City Council approved rezoning of the subject property from RSF and RR to RSF with the following conditions: 1 1. The applicant shall enter into a development contract containing all of the conditions of approval for this project and shall submit all required financial guarantees. The contract shall be recorded against the property. I 2. Compliance liance with setback standards established in the Compliance Table. 1 3. The applicant shall meet all conditions of the Subdivision #92 -1 and Wetland Alteration Permit #92 -3. 1 The Council also approved Wetland Alteration Permit #92 -3 with the following conditions: I 1. All wetland areas will be protected during construction by Type III erosion control. The erosion control shall be maintained in good condition until the disturbed areas are stabilized. I 2. The proposed wetland setbacks and buffer strip shown in the compliance table for each lot will be recorded as part of the development contract. The buffer strip 1 may not be less than 10 feet wide. The buffer strip will be preserved by an easement. 1 3. Alteration to the wetlands must occur when it results in the least impact to the wetland and not during the migratory waterfowl breeding season. 1 4. The applicant shall receive permits from the DNR and Corps of Engineers. ti) PRINTED ON RECYCLED PAPER 1 Don Ashworth February 18, 1993 1 Page 2 5. The applicant shall meet all conditions of the Subdivision #92 -1 and Rezoning #92 -2." ' The City approved also a roved Subdivision #92 -1 as shown on the plans dated April 29, 1992, and subject to the following condition: that staff work with the developer to attempt to obtain a ' second curb cut onto the county road. Failing that, this layout as proposed without the Timberwood connection will be acceptable, and subject to the following conditions: 1. A tree conservation and wetland buffer easement shall be placed on the plat. All building sites in the tree conservation or wetland buffer shall be shown on the building permit. 2. The development shall follow the standard in Subdivision Regulations Section 18 -16 regarding landscaping and tree preservation. 3. Park land shall be dedicated, 8 acres of property, as recommended by the Park Commission, including a 20 foot easement south of the Timberwood subdivision between Timberwood Drive and the park. 4. A front yard variance shall be granted to all homes that fall into the tree conservation area, but in no case shall the setback be less than 20 feet. 5. The applicant shall convey to the city a temporary easement for the temporary cul -de -sac ' at the end of Boulder Road. In addition, a sign shall be installed on the barricades stating that the street (Boulder Road) will be extended in the future. ' 6. The appropriate drainage and utility easements should be conveyed with the final plat over all utilities located outside of the public rights -of -way, along with standard easements over each lot. Timberwood Drive shall be constructed 35 feet wide gutter to gutter. 7. The applicant shall receive and comply with all pertinent agency permits, i.e. Watershed Districts, Health Department, MWCC, etc. ' 8. Storm sewer calculation for a 10 year storm event, along with pond storage calculations for storage for a 100 year storm event, 24 hour intensity, should be submitted to the City Engineer for review and approval. 9. A deceleration and acceleration lane on northbound County Road 19 shall be provided along with a bypass turn lane on southbound County Road 19 to improve turning movements into the development. 1 Don Ashworth February 18, 1993 Page 3 10. Watermain pipe sizing shall be increased to 8 inches in diameter on Forest Road and that part of Stone Creek Drive lying north of Forest Trail. 11. All storm retention ponds shall be constructed to NURP standards as well as provide storage for a 100 year storm event. 12. A permit from the railroad (Twin City Western) will be required for any grading or construction activity within the railroad right -of -way. 13. Fire hydrants shall be spaced approximately 300 feet apart throughout the subdivision in accordance with the Fire Marshal's recommendations. 14. The proposed earth berm along County Road 19 shall be reduced or relocated easterly to provide adequate room for future trail considerations. 15. All areas disturbed during site grading shall be immediately restored with seed and disc - mulched or wood -fiber blanket within two weeks of site grading on or before November 15, 1992, except in areas where utilities and streets will be constructed yet that year. All areas disturbed with a slope of 3:1 or greater must be restored with sod or seed. 16. The developer shall provide adequate access easements for maintenance purposes to the proposed retention ponds. 1 17. The developer shall construct the utility and street improvements in accordance with the 1992 edition of the City's Standard Specifications and Detail Plates and shall prepare final , plans and specifications and submit for city approval. 18. The developer shall acquire the required utility construction permits from the PCA and Minnesota Department of Health and street access permits from Carver County Public Works. 19. The final plat shall be contingent upon the city authorizing a public improvement project for extension of trunk sanitary sewer and water facilities to the site. 20. As a condition of final plat approval, the applicant shall enter into a development contract and provide the financial security to guarantee construction of the improvements and payment of any pending assessment. 21. The applicant shall be given credit for any trunk utility improvements they may install as a part of their overall site improvements. The credit will be applied towards the Upper Bluff Creek sanitary sewer and watermain trunk improvements. The credit amount will 1 1 Don Ashworth ' February 18, 1993 Page 4 be determined as the difference between a standard lateral pipe size (8 inch diameter) and the proposed trunk improvements which are 12 inches in diameter. ' 22. The applicant/builder shall provide, at the time of building permit application, a tree removal plan and grading permit for 11 wooded lots, specifically, Lots 1 through 7, Block 1; Lots 1 through 24, Block 4; Lots 1 through 21, Block 5; and Lots 1 through 12 and ' 15 through 24, Block 4. 23. The applicant shall work with staff to explore the possibility of conveying backyard ' drainage from Block 5 into the development storm sewer system. 24. The outlot along County Road 19 (Galpin Boulevard) needs to be replatted with another ' lot. 25. The applicant shall meet the conditions of the Rezoning #92 -2 and the Wetland Alteration 1 Permit #92 -3. ' FINAL PLAT REQUEST The construction plans propose development of the Stone Creek site in three phases. The first ' phase will concentrate on the southwesterly corner of the site. The first phase includes 22 lots. The remaining portion of the plat will include six outlots. Outlot A is located at the comer of Stone Creek Drive and Galpin Boulevard. The applicant wants to plat this area at a future date. All necessary right -of -way adjacent to Outlot A on Galpin and Stone Creek Drive will be dedicated. Outlot B is the location of the U. S. West Transmission Tower. This property, which was also owned by Mr. Volk, was granted a conditional use permit for a tower. Staff had requested that this property be included as a separate parcel and appropriate easement and right - of -way dedication be granted. Outlots C, D, E, and F will be platted in future phases. A portion of Outlot F will include the park dedication. The applicant is requesting that the eight acre park dedication be granted when the phase abutting ' the park is platted. The city would like to have the security of the dedication of the park up front in case the subdivision is never completed. The applicant has proposed, and staff supports, the applicant posting a letter of credit for the park and trail dedication fees for all lots platted until the park property is dedicated to the city. UTILITIES The subdivision will be receiving sanitary sewer and water service from the city's Bluff Creek Trunk Improvement project. The city's contractor is in the process of extending trunk utilities to the site. The developer will be building one home this winter for the Parade of Homes this 1 1 Don Ashworth February 18, 1993 Page 5 spring. No additional building permits will be issued without the utilities accepted by the city and streets paved. The developer will be installing a portion of the trunk watermain improvements in conjunction with this development. The applicant should be given credit for any trunk water main improvements they may install as a part of their overall site improvements. The credit will be applied towards the pending Upper Bluff Creek trunk sanitary sewer and water main assessments. The credit amount will be determined as the difference between a standard lateral pipe size (8 inch diameter) and the proposed trunk improvements which are 12 inches in diameter. Detailed construction plans have been submitted for staff review. However, due to pending revisions and time constraints, approval of the plans and specifications were consequently pulled from the February 23, 1993, City Council agenda. This in turn results in also pulling the development contract for City Council consideration. Approval of the development contract and plans and specifications are scheduled for the March 8, 1993, City Council agenda. This delay should not create a substantial hardship for the applicant since the inclement weather conditions restrict site grading and utility construction. ' SITE GRADING The first addition includes construction of both retention ponds, lot grading and rough grading of future Boulder Road to the east boundary of the plat. Boulder Road is proposed to be graded at this time for extension of the Upper Bluff Creek trunk sewer and water improvements which 1 will service this first phase. A revised grading plan should be prepared, accurately reflecting the lot and block numbers proposed with the first addition. EROSION CONTROL Erosion control fence is proposed around the westerly and southerly perimeter of the site. All disturbed areas shall be re- vegetated immediately after site grading is completed and no later than November 1, 1993. i STREETS The construction plans propose a 31 foot back to back urban street section within a 60 foot wide , right -of -way with the exception of Stone Creek Drive. On this street, staff recommends a wider street section, 35 foot back to back, due to the anticipated volume of traffic. The developer has 111 expressed concern with the additional tree loss due to the wider street section. Staff acknowledges his concern however initial utility installation will necessitate removal of most of the trees located within the proposed 60 foot right of way. , Street grades range from 0.60% to 5.15%, well within the city's guidelines and ordinance. 1 1 1 Don Ashworth ' February 18, 1993 Page 6 ' Deceleration and acceleration lanes are proposed along Galpin Boulevard (CR 117) in accordance with Carver County Public Works. A bypass lane, as recommended by staff, is not proposed at this time. Traffic projections with the 1st Addition will not warrant construction of the bypass ' lane. In addition, the right -of -way width is deficient to construct said bypass lane at this time. However, in the future when traffic counts meets warrants for a bypass lane, the developer will be required to construct the bypass lane with a future phase. 1 DRAINAGE Runoff from the development will be conveyed to the retention ponds via a series of storm sewers. Detailed storm sewer and ponding calculations confirming storage needs have been submitted. The proposed storm drainage improvements will meet the city's requirements for both ' water quality and quantity for this phase of development. Drainage and utility easements are proposed over the ponding areas and utilities located outside the street right -of -way. Easements proposed over the ponding areas need to be adjusted to encompass the high water level of each 1 pond. The following items are comments on the approved conditions, specifying whether they have 1 been met or still need to be complied with. SUBDIVISION ' 1. A tree conservation and wetland buffer easement shall be P laced on the plat. All building sites in the tree conservation or wetland buffer shall be shown on the building permit. ' •The first p a se any does not contain wetlands or tree conservation areas. y 1 2. The development shall follow the standard in Subdivision Regulations Section 18 -16 regarding landscaping and tree Preservation. 1 • Galpin and Lyman Boulevard have a streetscape and a portion will have a landscaped berm as per plans prepared by Midland Nursery dated 5/7/92, revised ' 6/11/92. 3. Park land shall be dedicated, 8 acres of property, as recommended by the Park Commission, including a 20 foot easement south of the Timberwood subdivision between Timberwood Drive and the park. • A letter of credit will be held until the park property is dedicated. The amount shall be $20,000 per acre (8 acre park will be $160,000). The 20 -foot trail easement is not included in this phase. 1 • 1 1 Don Ashworth February 18, 1993 Page 7 4. A front yard variance shall be granted to all homes that fall into the tree conservation area, but in no case shall the from setback be less than 20 feet. • Not applicable with this phase. 5. The applicant shall convey to the city a temporary easement for the temporary cul -de -sac at the end of Boulder Road and Stone Creek Drive. In addition, a sign shall be installed on the barricades stating that the streets (Boulder Road and Stone Creek) will be extended in the future. 6. The appropriate drainage and utility easements should be conveyed with the final plat over all utilities located outside of the public rights -of -way, along with standard easements over each lot. Stone Creek Drive shall be constructed 35 feet wide gutter to gutter. 1 • This condition is being met with this phase. 7. The applicant shall receive and comply with all pertinent agency permits, i.e. Watershed Districts, Health Department, MWCC, etc. • Staff has received approval from MWCC and Carver County Highway Department. 8. Storm sewer calculations for a 10 ear storm event, along with and storage calculations Y g P for storage for a 100 year storm event, 24 hour intensity, should be submitted to the City Engineer for review and approval. 1 • Condition has been met for the first phase. ' 9. A deceleration an acceleration lane on northbound County Road 19 shall be provided along with a bypass turn lane on southbound County Road 19 to improve turning movements into the development. •A by -pass lane is not proposed with the first addition. Staff believes traffic volume will not warrant a by -pass at this time. Also, existing right -of -way along Galpin boulevard is deficient to construct the by -pass lane. However, in the future when traffic counts achieve warrants for a bypass lane, the developer will be required to construct said bypass lane. 10. Watermain pipe sizing shall be increased to 8 inches in diameter on Forest Road (easterly portion of Stone Creek Drive) and that part of Stone Creek Drive lying north of Forest Trail. 1 1 Don Ashworth February 18, 1993 1 Page 8 • Not applicable with this phase. 11. All storm retention ponds shall be constructed to NURP standards as well as provide storage for a 100 year storm event. • This condition is being met with this phase. g p 1 12. A permit from the railroad (Twin City Western) will be required for any grading or construction activity within the railroad right -of -way. 1 13. Fire hydrants shall be spaced approximately 300 feet apart throughout the subdivision in accordance with the Fire Marshal's recommendations. 1 • This condition has been met. ' 14. The proposed earth berm along County Road 19 shall be reduced or relocated easterly to provide adequate room for future trail considerations. • The condition has not been met. 15. All areas disturbed during site grading shall be immediately restored with seed and disc - i mulched or wood -fiber blanket within two weeks of site grading on or before November 15, 1992, except in areas where utilities and streets will be constructed yet that year. All areas disturbed with a slope of 3:1 or greater must be restored with sod or seed. • The final seeding date shall be November 1, 1993. 16. The developer shall provide adequate access easements for maintenance purposes to the proposed retention ponds. 1 • Condition is being met with this phase. 17. The developer shall construct the utility and street improvements in accordance with the 1 1992 edition of the City's Standard Specifications and Detail Plates and shall prepare final plans and specifications and submit for City approval. 1 • Construction plans and specifications shall adhere to the City's 1993 edition of Standard Specifications and Detail Plates. 1 18. The final plat should be contingent upon the City Council awarding a bid for extension of trunk sanitary sewer and water facilities to the site. 1 1 1 1 Don Ashworth February 18, 1993 I Page 9 • Not applicable, contract awarded. Construction in progress. 19. As a condition of final plat approval, the applicant shall enter into a development contract and provide the financial security to guarantee construction of the improvements and I payment of any pending assessment. 20. The applicant shall be given credit for any trunk utility improvements they may install , as a part of their overall site improvements. The credit will be applied towards the Upper Bluff Creek sanitary sewer and watermain trunk improvements. The credit amount will be determined as the difference between a standard lateral pipe size (8 inch diameter) and I the proposed trunk improvements which are 12 inches in diameter. 21. The applicant/builder shall provide at the time of building permit application a tree I removal plan and grading permit for 11 wooded lots, specifically, Lots 1 through 7, Block 1; Lots 1 through 24, Block 4; Lots 1 through 21, Block 5; and Lots 1 through 12 and 15 through 24, Block 4. 1 •Not applicable with this phase. 22. The applicant shall work with the staff to explore the possibility of conveying backyard 1 drainage from Block 5 into the development storm sewer system. •Not applicable with this phase. I PP P 23. The outlot along County Road 19, Galpin Blvd, needs to be replatted with another lot. •This condition has been met, and has been included in with Lot 10 Block 1. This is not included in this phase. 1 24. The applicant shall meet the conditions of the Rezoning #92 -2 and the Wetland Alteration 1 Permit #92 -3. 25. Secondary access on to Galpin Boulevard. • In discussing this matter with Roger Gustafson, County Engineer he has stated that for access control, minimum intersection spacing should be between 1/4 and 1/2 mile. Stone Creek Drive will be stubbed to the property to the west to provide for the second access point. 1 1 1 5 Don Ashworth February 18, 1993 Page 10 RECOMMENDATION Staff recommends the City Council approve the final plat for Stone Creek First Addition Subdivision subject to the following conditions: 1. The development shall follow the standard in Subdivision Regulations Section 18 -16 regarding landscaping and tree Preservation. 2. Park land shall be dedicated, 8 acres of property, as recommended by the Park Commission, including a 20 foot easement south of the Timberwood subdivision between Timberwood Drive and the park. A letter of credit will be held until the park property is dedicated. The amount shall be $20,000 per acre (8 acre park will be $160,000). The ' 20 -foot trail easement is not included in this phase. 3. The applicant shall convey to the city a temporary easement for the temporary cul -de -sac at the end of Boulder Road and Stone Creek Drive. In addition, a sign shall be installed on the barricades stating that the streets (Boulder Road and Stone Creek) will be extended ' in the future. 4. The applicant shall receive and comply with all pertinent agency permits, i.e. Watershed Districts, Health Department, MWCC, etc. 5. A deceleration an acceleration lane on northbound County Road 19 shall be provided along with a bypass turn lane on southbound County Road 19 to improve turning movements into the development. A by -pass lane is not proposed with the first addition. Staff believes traffic volume will not warrant a by -pass at this time. Also, existing right - of -way along Galpin boulevard is deficient to construct the by -pass lane. However, in the future when traffic counts achieve warrants for a bypass lane, the developer will be required to construct said bypass lane. 6. A permit from the railroad (Twin City Western) will be required for any grading or construction activity within the railroad right -of -way. 7. The proposed earth berm along County Road 19 shall be reduced or relocated easterly to provide adequate room for future trail considerations. 8. All areas disturbed during site grading shall be immediately restored with seed and disc - mulched or wood -fiber blanket within two weeks of site grading on or before November 15, 1993, except in areas where utilities and streets will be constructed yet that year. All areas disturbed with a slope of 3:1 or greater must be restored with sod or seed. 1 1 1 1 Don Ashworth February 18, 1993 Page 11 9. The developer shall construct the utility and street improvements in accordance with the 1993 edition of the City's Standard Specifications and Detail Plates and shall prepare final plans and specifications and submit for City approval. 10. As a condition of final plat approval, the applicant shall enter into a development contract and provide the financial security to guarantee construction of the improvements and payment of any pending assessment. 1 11. The applicant shall be given credit for any trunk utility improvements they may install as a part of their overall site improvements. The credit will be applied towards the Upper Bluff Creek sanitary sewer and watermain trunk improvements. The credit amount will be determined as the difference between a standard lateral pipe size (8 inch diameter) and the proposed trunk improvements which are 12 inches in diameter. 1 12. The applicant/builder shall provide at the time of building permit application a tree removal plan and grading permit for 11 wooded lots, specifically, Lots 1 through 7, Block 1 1: Lots 1 through 24, Block 4; Lots 1 through 21, Block 5; and Lots 1 through 12 and 15 through 24, Block 4. 13. The applicant shall meet the conditions of the Rezoning #92 -2 and the Wetland Alteration 3. app g Permit #92 -3. 14. If after three years from the date the final plat is approved by the City Council, the remaining public utility and street improvements (Stone Creek 2nd Addition) are not constructed, the city shall proceed with a 429 public improvement project and assess the costs back to the benefitting properties. The developers and /or property owners shall waive any and all procedural and substantive objections to the special assessment, including but not limited to hearing requirements and any claim that the assessment exceeds the benefit to the property. 15. The applicant shall provide the city with a revised grading plan with the following modifications: a. Lot and block numbers that correspond to the final plat. r b. Lots adjacent to ponding areas shall have a lowest floor elevation a minimum of 3 feet above the pond high water level. c. Relocate the emergency overflow proposed on the west pond to the south end adjacent to the outlet pipe. d. Drainage and utility easements shall be adjusted to encompass the high water level of each pond. 1 1 1 1 Don Ashworth February 18, 1993 1 Page 12 1 ATTACHMENTS 1. Compliance Table. 1 2. City Council minutes dated April 29, 1992. 3. Final Plat. 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 COMPLIANCE WITH ORDINANCE - RSF DISTRICT 1 Lot Lot Lot Home Conservation Wetland Area Width Depth Setback Easement Buffer 1 Ordinance 15,000 90' 125' 30' front/rear 10' sides I BLOCK 1 Lot 1 15,000 90 167 30 Lot 2 15,000 90 167 30 10 Lot 3 16,380 95 167 30 30 1 Lot 4 15,000 90 167 30 40 Lot 5 15,000 90 167 30 40 1 Lot 6 15,000 90 168 30 40 Lot 7 15,000 90 170 30 20 Lot 8 15,655 95 155 30 1 Lot 9 17,670 72 172 30 Lot 10 31,000 60 200 30 1 Lot 11 17,670 65 156 57 Lot 12 23,566 57 170 30 1 Lot 13 17,360 100 174 30 1 Lot 14 17,205 80 166 30 Lot 15 15,345 88 162 30 1 Lot 16 15,500 90 165 30 Lot 17 15,330 104/146 146 30 1 Lot 18 15,190 112 137 30 1 Lot 19 16,120 72/156 143 30 Lot 20 15,655 91 174 30 1 1 1 1 I Lot Lot Lot Home Conservation Wetland Area Width Depth Setback Easement Buffer 1 BLOCK 1 Lot 21 15,010 90 168 30 Lot 22 15,035 90 171 30 Lot 23 17,205 90 192 30 I Lot 24 21,390 92 230 30 1 Lot 25 27,280 105 266 30 BLOCK 2 Lot 1 18,600 150 /100 150 57 Lot 2 23,566 102 179 30 1 Lot 3 15,000 105 158 30 I Lot 4 15,010 105/140 140 30 Lot 5 16,120 88 179 30 1 Lot 6 16,740 84 166 30 Lot 7 15,810 90/110 156 30 1 Lot 8 15,810 90 172 30 I Lot 9 16.430 104 182 30 Lot 10 16,275 113 182 30 1 Lot 11 16,275 110 183 30 Lot 12 15,041 114 178 20 80 1 Lot 13 15,506 114 175 20 90 I Lot 14 16,585 90 180 20 90 Lot 15 17,050 90 185 20 90 1 Lot 16 17,515 90 199 20 90 Lot 17 22,475 90 234 20 90 1 1 1 1 1 Lot Lot Lot Home Conservation Wetland Area Width Depth Setback Easement Buffer BLOCK 2 Lot 18 20,000 110 275 20 90 75 Lot 19 18,445 118 175 20 90 75 Lot 20 19,536 117 251 20 90 75 1 Lot 21 32,240 72 234 20 90 150 Lot 22 33,325 80 279 20 90 150 1 Lot 23 19,530 90 207 20 90 Lot 24 17,360 60 155 20 60 Lot 25 15,500 55 140 20 50 1 Lot 26 18,135 55 144 30 Lot 27 16.275 70 159 30 1 BLOCK 3 Lot 1 19,840 185/115 197 20 90 Lot 2 17,515 93 190 20 90 1 Lot 3 15,190 90 170 20 90 Lot 4 15,345 95 175 20 90 1 Lot 5 19,580 115 207 20 90 Lot 6 23,850 70/50 250 20 90 Lot 7 20,480 100 227 20 90 1 Lot 8 18,000 90 200 20 90 BLOCK 4 1 Lot 1 19,536 185/135 198 30 90 Lot 2 15,600 120 130 20 90 Lot 3 15,000 100 150 20 90 I 1 1 1 Lot Lot Lot Home Conservation Wetland Area Width Depth Setback Easement Buffer I BLOCK 4 Lot 4 15,000 95 165 20 90 I Lot 5 15,186 90 165 20 90 I Lot 6 15,000 90 165 20 90 Lot 7 15,030 90 167 20 90 1 Lot 8 15,300 90 170 20 90 Lot 9 14,030 90 167 20 100 1 Lot 10 15,000 90 165 25 Lot 11 15,000 90 165 20 90 I Lot 12 15,000 90 165 25 90 1 Lot 13 17,970 90 157 30 90 Lot 14 15,655 85 160 20 II Lot 15 15,345 95 159 25 90 Lot 16 15,500 98 171 20 90 I Lot 17 17.100 105 185 20 90 1 Lot 18 16,830 105 190 20 90 Lot 19 16,830 95 182 20 90 1 Lot 20 15,750 90 175 20 90 Lot 21 17,100 110 190 20 90 I Lot 22 18,250 115 182 20 90 Lot 23 15,000 100 155 20 90 Lot 24 17,830 170 132 20 90 1 1 1 1 1 Lot Lot Lot Home Conservation Wetland I Area Width Depth Setback Easement Buffer BLOCK 5 1 Lot 1 17,360 145 160 20 90 Lot 2 18,300 90 200 20 90 Lot 3 17,330 95 192 20 90 1 Lot 4 15,530 95 172 20 90 Lot 5 15,000 90 165 20 90 may be unbuildable 1 Lot 6 15,000 90 165 20 90 Lot 7 15,300 90 170 20 90 Lot 8 16,430 90 182 20 90 1 Lot 9 17,550 90 192 20 90 Lot 10 17,550 90 192 20 90 1 Lot 11 16,650 90 185 20 90 Lot 12 15,570 90 172 20 90 1 Lot 13 15,000 90 165 20 90 1 Lot 14 15,300 90 167 20 90 Lot 15 16,200 95 180 20 90 1 Lot 16 18,000 95 197 20 90 Lot 17 18.900 90 207 20 90 1 Lot 18 18,000 90 205 20 90 I Lot 19 18,000 90 197 20 90 Lot 20 24,020 80* 195 25 110 1 Lot 21 19,060 78 180 30 120 Lot 22 15,000 90 165 30 1 1 1 1 1 1 Lot Lot Lot Home Conservation Wetland I Area Width Depth Setback Easement Buffer BLOCK 5 I Lot 23 15,965 90 172 30 Lot 24 16,275 92 179 30 I Lot 25 15,965 100 184 30 Lot 26 19,800 98 220 30 I Lot 27 24,490 72 212 30 Lot 28 22,470 68 192 30 I Lot 29 26,195 86 235 30 1 Lot 30 24,300 100 270 30 Lot 31 27.230 106 302 30 1 Lot 32 27,235 98 341 30 Lot 33 15,210 90 167 30 I Lot 34 15,080 90 167 30 1 Lot 35 15,965 100/167 167 30 Lot 36 23,095 90 249 30 Lot 37 23,870 100 246 30 BLOCK 6 1 Lot 1 19,070 185/135 310 30 90 1 Lot 2 15,500 120 130 20 90 Lot 3 15,000 100 150 20 90 1 Lot 4 15,000 90 165 20 90 Lot 5 15,180 95 165 20 90 1 Lot 6 15,000 90 165 20 90 I Lot 7 15,030 90 167 20 90 1 1 1 Lot Lot Lot Home Conservation Wetland 1 Area Width Depth Setback Easement Buffer BLOCK 6 1 Lot 8 15,300 90 170 20 90 Lot 9 15,030 90 167 20 90 1 Lot 10 15,000 90 165 20 90 Lot 11 15,000 90 165 20 90 Lot 12 15,000 90 165 20 90 1 Lot 13 15,970 90 157 30 Lot 14 17,520 85 167 30 1 Lot 15 15,300 95 170 20 90 Lot 16 16,380 100 182 20 90 1 Lot 17 17,100 105 190 20 90 1 Lot 18 16,830 105 187 20 90 Lot 19 16,380 95 182 20 90 1 Lot 20 15,750 90 175 20 90 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING APRIL 29, 1992 Mayor Chmiel reconvened the City Council meeting at 8:20 p.m., which was continued from April 27, 1992. MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilwoman Dimler, Councilman Wing, Councilman Workman and Councilman Mason STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Paul Krauss, Charles Folch, Kate Aanenson, Scott Harr, Todd Hoffman and Todd Gerhardt (CONINUATION OF REZONING REQUEST FROM A2 TO RSF, AND PRELIMINARY PLAT REQUEST FOR 141 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS, WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT, AND 8.2 ACRES OF PARK AREA LOCATED NORTH OF LYMAN AND EAST OF GALPIN BOULEVARD, JUST SOUTH OF TIMBERWOOD ESTATES, STONE CREEK, HANS HAGEN HOMES. Public Present: Name Address Richard Larson 8141 Pinewood Circle Greg VanderVorste 8141 Maplewood Terrace Mark Foster 8020 Acorn Lane Karen 011son 8020 Acorn Lane Dave Maenke 2041 Renaissance Court Jim & Colleen Dockendorf 2061 Oakwood Ridge James R. Lano 2060 Oakwood Ridge Hans Hagen 941 Hillwind Road Stan Rud 2030 Renaissance Court Greg & Julie Sorenson 8121 Maplewood Terrace Bonnie Murkowski 2051 Renaissance Court 11 Mary Harrington 8140 Maplewood Terrace Jean Dtrand Rollins 2081 Timberwood Drive Jeff Heinz 2071 Timberwood Drive Brad Foley 2061 Timberwood Drive Mayor Chmiel: If I remember correctly, we had this back here at Council with our discussion. I think we've all had an ample opportunity to re- review the entirety of what the project is and where we're going. I know none of the Council members discussed anything with me...project and I none with them and I think everybody is independently come up with a conclusion. As to what that is, 11 we're going to eventually find out. So with that, let's just start with some additional discussions on this proposal. I'd like to start with Mike. 11 Councilman Mason: I think we all understand the issues here. I understand where Timberwood's coming from about not wanting the road to go through there and quite honestly if I lived there I'd feel exactly the same way. I think with just one curb cut on the county road there, that poses a major problem. If we can get another curb cut on that county road, I personally don't have any trouble at all with dead ending or emergency barricade or whatever. I think if we can't get another curb cut there, then I certainly would push to have 1 1 City Council Meeting - Apri? '9, 1992 1 Timberwood come to a T intersection and have Timberwood end there and that would be Boulder Drive or Boulder Trail or whatever we want to call it. Paul Krauss: Would you like us to show you why we think there's only one possibility for a curb cut there? Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, I think it'd probably be a good idea. And I did want to get back from you too discussions with the...apartments as well. 1 Paul Krauss: Down here you have Lyman Blvd.. Lyman Blvd. is ultimately going to be 4 lanes and a very high volume street. And according to the County ' engineer, we certainly agree with him that there's absolutely no chance of getting access point down there. Then you have an area over here where you have to provide clear separation from this intersection. Here's your major intersection. We need to provide distance back here for acceleration and deceleration for turns that occur. And this intersections about in the right place. I mean possibly you could move it down here a little bit but not very much. Originally this plat had another intersection right over here and in talking to, I think to the County Engineer, we got feedback from them that the sight distance at that point wasn't too great. You have a hill situation on Galpin that tends to tell you that this isn't a terribly safe spot to turn out. Even if you did, you wind up with a short circuited loop that really leaves everything else a dead end. So in terms of coming out on these roads, we don't think that that's very likely. Or will really produce the results that we're looking for. Now, we think that there's a long term possibility of another entrance into this area. I can't tell you that it's got a 50% chance of succeeding but we've been looking at it long term here today. Bluff Creek runs through here and there's a very narrow area of residentially zoned property between Timberwood and a creek. It's possible to extend that road somehow up through there and ultimately there's going to be another...to do something like that. Come up and intersect with that. Provide another...access into the neighborhood. There's a lot of issues with that though. Issues being this area is not terribly deep and I'm not going to...double row of houses in this case. Houses on either side. That can lead, you'll have a major creek crossing here and we're going to some great extent to make sure that there's a bridge over TH 5 here and possibly another bridge here. It would be a shame to look at putting a culvert over there. I doubt you can justify the expense of going with a third bridge in the area. So that is a long term possibility. I don't know that it's a real good one. But in terms of this particular site, there really only is one point to come out on the county road. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you Paul. 1 Councilman Workman: How many acres is Timberwood? Paul Krauss: Gosh, I don't even know. 1 Councilman Workman: 130 some. How many homes are in there? Are you ready for me Don? Mayor Chmiel: Yes, go ahead Tom. 2 1 1 City Council Meeting - Ap ' 29, 1992 Councilman Workman: I only ask because I know that Timberwood is trying to depict their neighborhood as something that's a whole lot different than what people would like to connect it to. 141 homes on 81 acres versus 37 homes on 137 acres is very different. They are very different. I think we all agree with that. If we ran the second entrance to the north there as Paul had shown, this really wouldn't serve a whole lot of homes. I mean this coming out here wouldn't serve or really alleviate from here so something would have to come through back here I would assume. But if we had just one entrance, one exit at this time, really the rest of the neighborhood isn't just coming out on one. They're kind of coming out on really two. Two main all the way through. And as the last four lots or so that everybody's funneling onto one. And I understand the problem with having just one for that many homes. That does create a problem. I do promote the idea of two. And I maintain as does Mike that I have a problem connecting it together. I talked to Kate today about it and some other people. Not having this road at all stub into Timberwood. In other words, not creating a dilemma that's been created as in Curry Farms and elsewhere. In other words, leave no possibility for the connection. So two on the west. I mean they're showing a dead end and a connection here on the east end. I mean it's got to go somewhere if not across the creek and out to, I think isn't there platted industrial? Paul Krauss: No. What I think is more likely, it's more likely that that would just be an extension of a dead end street that would serve the homes that would occur in that area between Timberwood and the creek. The idea of another creek crossing there, it's theoretically possible but it begins to stretch the imagination a little bit. Councilman Workman: I guess we're talking and every discussion that I've heard has said, these people down here will never go through Timberwood. And I buy that. So why put it in? Second argument being, and I had this humdinger of an argument again today. You know the public safety issue. And we went through this issue with the Kurvers Point. About the long cul -de -sac and will public safety be able to get in. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. More likely than 11 not they'll be able to get in to these things but it just seemed to me that too many coincidences have to happen all at the same time for there to be a situation where public safety's going to have a serious problem. And maybe I'm taking that too lightly. But all in the same hour, somebody has to have a life threatening problem, a tornado or something has to be coming through and a big tree has to fall over in the right direction to block the road. And I never really got much clarification on that at the Kurvers Point deal that that was really something that we should be worried about. I lean over to Richard and he tells me, we'll get through. Don't worry about it. Will they have to and that's where, as a City Council member, I've kind of had to think, well do I have to worry about just about everything and lay awake at night thinking about those things? And I've opted for not. Councilwoman Dimler: Not thinking about it? Councilman Workman: If we get Hennepin County Commissioner pay, then I'll. But that isn't to mock or mimmick staff's understanding of what they think we need 11 to do. I understand that. And they're very real concerns. I just don't personally tend to hinge things on those as heavily as they do. Timberwood is in and almost done. People live there. These people don't live here. That 3 11 City Council Meeting - April ', 1992 1 doesn't mean I don't feel for the developer but I think we can do some modifications to make it work so that this group of homes is onto itself and not affecting the neighborhood. Mayor Chmiel: What modifications are you suggesting that we could make to that? ' How can we do that? Councilman Workman: Well, take Stone Creek Court and run it out and then bend the west end over along the property line or wherever. I don't lay out plats but. Mayor Chmiel: You're making some suggestions but I'd like to know what those 1 suggestions are. Councilman Workman: Well like I said, bring this piece. Now that's going to 1 leave a big lump and maybe they can work here, maybe they can't. But bring this and bend it straight out along there or drop it through and ultimately connect up to there. Rather than make it a cul -de -sac. And that takes care of or serves the other half of that. Kate Aanenson: There's a wetland right there. Paul Krauss: There's a real pristine kind of a wooded wetland right over here that we've assigned in the conservation area. You really wouldn't want to put a road through that. 1 Councilman Workman: But we've got yards and lots in there. If you're telling me it's impossible, I don't believe it. But we have a pristine pond and some pristine trees. We've also got a neighborhood that's going to be changed. That's where I've been directing some of my concerns. I can worry about the pond, which I will. Or I can worry about the long term affect it's going to have on the neighbors to the north and that's what I've done. I/ Mayor Chmiel: Tom are you saying, going and extending to the east from that cul -de -sac with that road? Are you really saying taking Stone Creek and going to the west and coming out on CR 18? Councilman Workman: As a second entrance. Mayor Chmiel: There would be two out on County Road 18. Hans Hagen: Maybe I can shed some light on this. I don't disagree with the 1 residents... I heard you and I went back... What we tried to do after we came up with the PUD and we felt that that wouldn't be a viable alternative for the city, we laid out the roads to do two things. To stay away from the wetlands and to preserve the forest as much as we could. That's really our mandate because the city really mandates that so you have to start from there. And the area that you've been speaking about which would be extending Stone Creek, as it's named here, and rather than hooking the cul -de -sac down here, bringing the road across adjacent to Timberwood is a difficulty because of two things. You've got the wetland issue here and you've also got a very steep bank here and you've probably got a 30 foot grade elevation from here to here. So going from this I/ location down to here, you've got probably 20 to 30 feet and when you do that, 4 11 r City Council Meeting - Apr'l 29, 1992 obviously you end up taking all the trees out. That's why this road hooks down around here to take care of the grade and be able to put the house pads in and leave some trees between each house. And while the plat, as it's drawn here shows a preserve area in here, it's our intent and we think we would be able to maintain trees on the lot lines. Now not all of them will live but every attempt will be made to do that. And that only works if you follow the contours carefully. So the road layout seems to just meander around but it has, the 11 reason it meanders around is to save the trees. Now I think maybe there's another way to accomplish what Timberwood is after. I totally agree that you don't want traffic needlessly running through your neighborhood. Here's Timberwood located here. The road system you see coming through Stone Creek was the original layout that we had and that is no longer valid. That was a PUO. But generally speaking, this major road's coming through here and wandering through in about the same way. Now you'll notice that Timberwood Drive goes up and circles around and goes north and actually even down south a little bit. So that is a circuritous route. It would be much better if somebody was coming, leaving Stone Creek. It could go back and glance at this route rather than going north and then east and then down south and going out onto TH 5. Remembering that there's a speed limit within your neighborhood. There's a higher speed limit perhaps on Galpin. Well, I understand...but in any event, we've got a different issue with regard to neighborhood speed traffic than you do on Galpin. So if people drove the speed limit, you would be wiser if you were in a hurry to get someplace, to take this route which is the most direct going north on Galpin. Now to make it a little bit more complicated to get out of Stone Creek. Rather than bringing Timberwood as shown in the original drawing. We're bringing Timberwood up to here. This is the line, our property line... And as has been suggested to the Council at the last meeting is to bring Timberwood down and have a stop sign here so that it makes it a little bit more difficult to go through Timberwood. This would go out to Galpin. This I'm suggesting goes to TH 5 but I understand that may be a difficult issue because... I assume we can stop it right here at this intersection. What we'd like to do is stop traffic to go this way so that we're making it difficult to go through your neighborhood. Resident: That stop sign wouldn't do it. Paul Krauss: No, actually you'd want the traffic to feel a whole lot more comfortable zipping out on Stone Creek rather than turning onto Timberwood. Hans Hagen: You could take a right here and go north. Mayor Chmiel: If we could just hold it so we can hear what he's saying. Thank you. Hans Hagen: You could add stop signs if the neighborhood decided to at this location so you'd have a stop on the way through Timberwood which would slow traffic down. That might accomplish keeping the traffic speed down on Timberwood for the neighbors but it would certainly, if you've got a stop sign here and you've got a thru street going out to TH 5, the logical traffic flow would be that way. Now, I think the other issue with regard to the thru traffic for buses and for also your emergency. Well not as much emergency vehicles but for buses and trash and that sort of thing. If you take a bus and go in here, pick up everybody and then return and go out, you're doubling the number of 11 5 11 City Council Meeting - Apri' '9, 1992 1 trips you have with the bus and that's the same thing that's true with any vehicles going on through so it would seem to me that logic would dictate that you do permit school buses to go all the way through and you just reduce the number of bus trips by 50% and the same thing is true with other delivery vehicles that would be going through the neighborhood. So in all my years of, 25 years now of platting property and so forth, this is something that always happens when there's an existing neighborhood and you bring another neighborhood on and leaving this road was extended to the property so that it could connect. 1 That does make good sense and yes, it takes a bunch of moons to line up to have that crisis where somebody can't get there but when that crisis does occur, then you wish you would have gone the other way. But I do feel that by changing, by putting the stop sign up at this intersection and by T -ing this intersection, that you're going to get probably the best alternative... Mayor Chmiel: Paul, did you have anything that you wanted to say? 1 Paul Krauss: Actually there is one thing we could add. Kate, why don't you give the distances on that. We had some information that we didn't get a chance to give you last night in terms of one of the prime reasons we think that most of the traffic will naturally, by common sense, want to go out thru Stone Creek. Kate Aanenson: What we just looked at, if this was going through Timberwood, 1 which is 3/4 of a mile from this point out. And the longest from the edge of this...other point out...Stone Creek Drive and that will be half a mile and this line...2 /3 of a mile. 1 Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Why don't you just leave that one up there. Richard. Councilman Wing: Well I see two issues here, and I've tried to separate them 11 out. Number one is Mr. Hagen's development which I have no problem with and I'm ready to get on with it. The other is Timberwood and I feel that Timberwood people came in and they bought large lots intentionally. Isolated property intentionally and I think that Timberwood deserves to be protected. They built their neighborhood. It's kind of what we've called a little island and we've argued about this and these two neighborhoods are very, very different. 5o in my own thinking, I'm taking Timberwood out of this issue. I think they deserve to be protected and kept away from this. So for my discussions I'm simply taking them out of there and not worrying about them. Now on Stone Creek, I think that if a piece of land is going to be platted, it has to stand on it's own and it has to be responsible for it's own egress and entryways. I don't think it's my responsibility to try and plat this project and I don't want to get caught up in it. If that piece of property with 141 homes can't get cars in and out, it doesn't have proper egress and ingress to the property, then I have to suspect that maybe there's too many homes on that 81 acres and we have to start relooking at the density that we've got there. I'm not suggesting that and I'm not unhappy with the density but again to repeat myself on my opening statement. I think Stone Creek has to stand on it's own. The last comment I would make is the public safety issue and I think that in this particular development as I'm seeing it, if there's only one way in and that one way branches off into a maze of cul -de -sacs, that is a public safety hazard. We don't have access to these properties and all it would take is one tree falling down, as Tom mentioned but there aren't any trees anyway so that's sort of moot. It will be 20 years before a tree's going to be big enough to fall over and 6 1 I/ City Council Meeting - Arril 29, 1992 bother us. But any calamity that should happen that would block off that initial entryway and we don't have any way to get to the rest of that community whatsoever so this development with this many homes, I'm going to suspect the fire chief, speaking as one of the fire chief's or the fire marshall's going to say nix. It is unacceptable to have only one entryway into this. It's going to have to have two. But when I start again, Stone Creek has to stand on it's own. Be responsible for it's own development and not rely on the Timberwood area to give them that second access. So Timberwood's not in my discussion for the future here. I/ Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Ursula. Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. Since our last meeting, which wasn't that long ago, I I did drive out into Timberwood and I went to the end of the drive there and I discovered that there is a huge amount of trees that would have to be cleared to put the road through and there's also a creek there. Is that correct? Paul Krauss: There's a flowage that would have to go, be routed under the road, yes. 1 Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. I didn't know that before and I guess that does kind of change my outlook on that particular opening. I also, you know think that we need two entrances here for safety but as I thought about it, I began to think why do we have to make Timberwood less safe in order to provide safety for a new development? So I would kind of tend to go along with what Richard just said. This Stone Creek has to stand on it's own without depending on Timberwood to provide it with another access. And I think Timberwood is safe today and it will be as safe tomorrow without that street going through there. But it's Stone Creek that we need to be concerned about the safety. Then I have an unrelated question as well and that has to do with the model homes that are supposed to be ready by September without utilities in there but maybe we can talk about that later. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. I guess I had, I received a call this evening. There 11 were some good issues that were brought up to me from that discussion. It was a resident within Timberwood. Many things that I heard, concerns about speeds within the development. I guess I charge each and every one of you to respectfully watch your own speeds so you can bring that back down to where it should be. 30 mph is basically what that road is designed for. And if it be necessary, we can provide the kinds of protections that maybe you're looking for but I don't like to see our officers write tickets on our own residents, or anyone else. I don't think this is a police state. And if everyone has certain numbers of children within that area, I think each of you owe it to yourselves to police, as I said, yourself rather than us do it for you. I've learned over the years and this right foot of mine probably has some lead in it, just like you have in driving through your neighborhood. I find that if you've got a cruise control, set it on 30. It's amazing how well it works. And I use that driving in town. On the main street. In the neighborhoods and mine even trolls down to 25 mph and I use it in a 25 zone. Never have to look at the speedometer because I know exactly where it is once I set it. Just a word of advice. One of the other things that I also heard was the fact that many of you have indicated that you were made aware that there was not going to be an outlet from that area or a connection. In discussions that I've had with a couple people in 1 7 1. City Council Meeting - Apr 29, 1992 1 buying those properties, from what I've been told, everyone has been told that there could very well be a connection through the neighborhood. I just found that out yesterday in doing some more checking as I said we would do and consider and think about other things. I'm sure that Mr. Hagen is not in any particular position of saying I have to have that access into Timberwood and I don't think he's going to take that position as I've just heard him say that before as well. So some of the things that I really see is his proposal in putting this residential development in there. I'd support it because of what I've seen. This platting has indicated with the sizes of lots and you have a vast different amount of sizes. From 15,000 square feet. As much as 33,000 square feet. So he's working with that particular piece of property I think very well. Whether or not that access goes in there, I think we've stood more behind Timberwood than we have in any other subdivision within the city. And even during our preliminary stages of going through our comprehensive plan and making the changes to accommodate you people, that's who we represent. But sometimes when I look at the necessity of public safety. We're charged with that and I want to feel comfortable with the public health and safety of this particular connection of if the connection were to go through. I'm getting a feel from Council, I don't see that right now. But even for your own concerns and some of the concerns I have for your own properties, that is something that has to be looked at and I did look at it quite strongly. And everybody feels comfortable enough right now. Hopefully you'll feel comfortable enough if you live there for the next 20 years or 30 years but in this changing world as we have it, how many of us are going to still be here. I know I will because I'm going to retire here. Very shortly, in about 2 months. But how often are we all going to stay here? The job markets change. We make changes. We leave the area. Once everyone leaves, is this going to be the best for the city and that's what I look at again. So with just a few of those analyzations that I've gone through, I'm ready to poll the Council for a motion regarding this preliminary plat as well as the two other aspects of the platting. The wetland alteration and the rezoning. If the desire by Council is to eliminate the connection into Timberwood Estates, that should so be indicated. Whether or not I/ the Timberwood Estates name should be on there, because I'm sure the reason that was done to have that connection into Timberwood. Possibly that should change and that's strictly up to you. But with that, I would request a motion in regards to this particular platting. Councilman Wing: Don, just one clarification. For me to approve the plat, part of the approval would be the requirement of two entryways. Is that correct? Or would that be part of the motion, if desired? Mayor Chmiel: Paul, do you want a clarification? 1 Paul Krauss: Yeah, I wish Roger were here tonight. I think you're raising an issue here because we've already gone on record telling you that we don't think there are two good points to come out on the county road. This developer does have an option to loop a street but you're considering precluding him from using that option. If you then put the developer in the position where you're insisting that he have two accesses but it's impossible to provide it, therefore I/ the property can't be developed, I think we have a problem. Councilman Wing: Alright, I'll go along with the one but then the Fire Marshall comes along and says that's not going to fly. 8 1 11 City Council Meeting - Apr'l 29, 1992 Paul Krauss: That's the situation we'll have. I mean we can reopen the book and see what we can do but we did look at this intensively. We have conferred with the County Engineer and we've pretty much eliminated those alternatives. Councilwoman Dimler: Is there anything that can be done to that second side that you said the. Paul Krauss: The sight distance? Councilwoman Dimler: Yeah, wasn't good enough. Can we do something with that M intersection there? Paul Krauss: I honestly don't know. It probably would involve some major reconfiguration of a street. Lowering of grades. Significant and you can't do that just on a localized site. You've got to go half a mile up the road so the grades match. You probably look at loss of trees. Councilwoman Dimler: Is this a county road? Paul Krauss: Yes. 1 Hans Hagen: The County did deny that other entrance. Kate Aanenson: That's what went to Planning Commission were the two entrances and the County said no. So we came back with the revised. Councilman Mason: Mr. Mayor, two things. I have a little trouble with a development has to stand on it's own. We're talking, then I think all of a sudden I've heard some citizens accuse development of being patchworked. I think if all of a sudden we're saying a site has to stand on it's own, then we're creating patchwork. I also did hear a number of Timberwood people say their first choice is absolutely no road through there and I've already said if I lived there I'd feel the same way. I also did hear them say that if that can't be done, can we please have a T intersection and Timberwood end at what is currently now called Boulder Drive. I share your concerns about the public safety issue also. I think if we approve this with one in and out, we're essentially not approving anything and we're going to have to deal with it a month or two from now anyway, is my opinion. And if the County has already told us that two in and outs on CR 18 is not going to wash with them, I find us to • some extent, caught between a rock and a hard place on this one. And if that's the case, then I think we need to take a little harder look at a T intersection there. Where Timberwood and what's now called Boulder Drive come together. Councilman Workman: If I can add to that. I guess it's, and I understand where you're coming from. It's not my job to plat and I don't know out of which book or which law or to what degree the County can say yes or no to an entrance there. It would appear to me that where Stone Creek would come out, the elevation is 981. If you go to the north, the next elevation I see anywhere near there is 985. That's 4 feet. The next one I see is 968. 5o it drops significantly there. So they're almost near the top of the hill. I guess if not near it and so while I'm hesitant to, during a variance process to help somebody design their garage for them, I guess I think the developer's kind of getting a strong idea about what we want to do and that can either be worked out 9 1 City Council Meeting - April 1992 or it can't. I don't know that I'm convinced that it can't be. To say that it absolutely can't. Roger Gustafson has made the decision. It's now in stone down there at the County without Al Klingelhutz and everybody else looking at it. I don't know. I guess I'm not a surveyor or other but I'm not convinced that it can't be done. Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor. What it basically boils down to is, being that it is a county road. Carver County has of course jurisdiction over that road. Any other agency looking to tie into that County Road has to get an access permit from the County. If the County is not willing to grant that permit without taking further action, legal action or whatever, you can't acquire the permit. Basically as Paul's mentioned before, to try and cut that hill down to make the sight lines feasible to provide a secondary access, one is that economically feasible? Who would pay for it? I'm sure the County is not going to be willing to pay for that. That's something that would have to certainly be considered. It's not impossible but it would be a major task to do that. Mayor Chmiel: Charles, do you know what the sight line was and what the given problem is? Charles Folch: The exact distance? I don't have that off hand what the exact distance was. It's not too far down from the crest but that is the problem. Kate Aanenson: If I could just add to that. The other issue that the County raised was based on the volume of traffic, this space, they have a requirement of spacing of entranceways and that also fell into too narrow of a gap there. Spacing. With the volume of traffic. Conflicting turn movements. Mayor Chmiel: If, and I'm not into designing either but if Creek Court were looked at, that's probably better than 500 foot distance from the existing verbage of Timberwood Road to Stone Creek and of course that would eliminate that cul -de -sac there. But I don't know where Hans is coming from with that I/ part either. Hans Hagen: I think the two issues you have are, one coming over the crest of the hill here does not have good sight distance. We pull this out. So that's one problem the County had. The other problem is the County has a minimum distance between access points on Galpin Road. On this County Road. So they've denied it based on that. So when we received that information, then we backed off and made this a cul -de -sac. Because originally we had put this through. When you get over to this point however, and you can see all these lines coming down pretty close and for the public who isn't dealing with plats everyday, that indicates there's a very sharp hill going down this so you've got a situation. Actually we are peeling off the top of the hill as part of the grading program but to pull a road back through here and I think it's probably a moot point because you can't get out here anyway with your second access so it really doesn't change anything but you can't pull a road down through here because the wetland here. You've got a very sharp hill which is in grade and in order to make that grade work you'd have to pull it down to a 7% or less grade and in I/ order to do that, you would really have massive grading and pulling all the trees out. So we were trying to work with the environment. We thought quite honestly when this road came down and T'd at this property, that typically that should be pulled on through from a safety point of view. It isn't our company's 10 1 1 City Council Meeting - A' it 29, 1992 point of view that that should be done. It's just that cities generally require that so we just followed it through. So I think from an environmental point of view, when you're talking about the trees and woods and all of you have talked about those, and the wetlands. You've talked about those. The plat is sympathetic to those issues. And so if we start out with the trees and we start out with the wetlands and start out with the hills and the grades and work out plat out and then come out with a safe intersection, it really ties you in. And whether it's Hans Hagen Homes, you know. If we don't get this through, somebody else is going to come back and do the same thing. You're kind of stuck and I think the solution to your problem is not really devastating the forest or the 11 wetlands or creating an unsafe process out here because I think that's doing the wrong thing. You're creating lots of problems there. The better issue is to try and get the traffic not to want to go through your neighborhood. That's really what the issue is. Now one other thing and I tried to explain it on the other plat and I wasn't very good at it. But what we're proposing to do is to change this road so the road does this. And now it goes through and this, Timberwood comes down and stops here and there's a stop sign here so that's what I was trying to explain. Actually there's a little difference than I'm showing here but it's very close. Then we would change this name to Boulder Creek Drive, and I think some of the neighbors brought up the fact that what happens if somebody's looking for Timberwood Drive. They come to the first one on Galpin, take a left and they're really trying to find somebody that's on Timberwood Drive in Stone Creek. Well, we can resolve that by changing the name to Boulder Creek Drive down here so they aren't going to look for Timberwood. So Timberwould come down and stop here. That would keep your neighborhood identified as Timberwood and not mix it up. Resident: I'm confused with your logic. If you want to restrict traffic, which we do through Timberwood, why put a road there? Hans Hagen: That's fine with me. I have no problem. We don't have to do this and I'm not arguing for it. You know we can block that off but then the issue comes back, is it safe? Is it safe for you? Is it safe for us? I'm not going to make that decision. That isn't my job. We can take and simply make this a loop street. That isn't a problem with us but the question is, is it good for you ultimately and is it good for the people that we're selling to here and from a safety perspective, I would say this is not. Resident: People keep talking here about the distance... The other night Paul had mentioned that first, lower portion of Timberwood was maybe a little farther away from...than it needed to be. As well as north... Maybe some of those lots on the north should be just pulled and the road should curve up more to the crest of the hill. There are options there...well it's going to fail. By how much and how much can you make it work ?...fails the test. Maybe another 11 proposal...that passes the test. Councilman Workman: If in fact, if we make believe for a minute that we have a road through there and the developer and staff are telling us that people aren't going to really use that. Buses and the UPS guy. Then in fact what we have is 141 homes draining out one entrance and exit. That's in fact what we're telling the people to the north. That is not safe. If we have one access here, it's not safe. Forgetting the emergency vehicle argument for this point. That means we've got everybody, because it takes so much more to go up through Timberwood, 1 11 11 City Council Meeting - April '9, 1992 1 and so much more time, everybody and whatever trip they're going to take, is going to come out this exit and I don't know who in their right mind would live there with that kind of traffic unless this were in fact going to be used as a purge valve out to the north. So we either have a very, and believe me, I'm maybe giving the developer mixed signals. I think Timberwood would much rather have this than a commercial and I agree that they do do nice work but it's a difficult parcel. We're working very hard on what and how the environment on this side of the creek is like but it is going to affect the environment on the north side. I know it is and you can tell me that by making this connection nobody's going to use it. It's just there for service vehicles and emergency vehicles but then you're telling me that everybody's coming out this thing and that is going to be a very, very unsafe one place to come in and out of this neighborhood and 141 homes. Councilman Wing: When I come home at night, I'm going to make the first turn 1 off of TH 5. I'm going to make the first left into Timberwood and roll through that open land and those wide streets right into my home in the middle of this to avoid having to come down here and wind through the whole thing. 1 Councilman Workman: I don't deny that it's not a difficult thing to lay this all out with the contours and everything else. I'm not trying on purpose anyway to be ignorant. If all the arguments that I've heard are that people are not going to go up to the north and don't worry about it, then 141 homes are going to empty out one spot. That's where I would piggyback on Richard's comment that it needs to stand a little bit more, at least on it's own. And have that extran one to the north and... Resident: Are we free to make comments? No? Mayor Chmiel: Not right now. Not yet. Councilman Wing: Mr. Mayor, in regards to those comments. I can't believe we could possibly hear anything we haven't heard already. I would ask you to temper those. I want to go home. Thank you very much. Councilman Mason: I'm almost to the point of being amazed at all this discussion. If the County is telling us they will not, and maybe we need to find this out 100%. But if the County's telling us we won't give you another access there, what's the issue? Councilman Workman: Whether or not 141 homes are going to empty out of one. Councilman Wing: We should have one exit. I/ Councilman Mason: So you're saying then, if we only have one access there, we're not going to let that road in there so therefore we're not allowing development there and we have to buy more property. Councilman Workman: No. I'm saying pretend that road is there. I'm being told that people are not going to use that. Councilman Mason: Right. 1 12 11 M 11 City Council Meeting - Ar '1 29, 1992 Councilman Workman: That means 141 homes will have to come out this okay. But in reality I know people are going to use it. Okay so, how many? Who in the room can tell me how many of those homes? Is it half? So is that 70? Then that does. Councilman Mason: I'm not saying it's not going to impact Timberwood. I'm just saying I think we're beating a dead horse. If the County is saying one access, I don't know that we have any choice. oun i an Wing: But is it the right choice to approve c lm g g PP rove that? That's pretty extreme. On the other hand, what we haven't looked at is taking some of these upper lots and T -ing those into dead ends and then letting this half come out on this one. Break the division into. In other words, take the northern lots. This whole group of northern lots and connect them into Timberwood. Dead end and then let this other half drain out onto... Resident: I did suggest that at the Planning Commission. t Councilwoman Dimler: I didn't hear what Richard said. Mayor Chmiel: Sorry, we were trying to have some discussions here. I hate to say I wasn't paying attention. Hans Hagen: Your Honor, maybe I can help in one other issue. I know it's cumbersome but we are putting a right turn lane in here. The County requested a right turn lane put on Galpin right here so the people would come out, the bulk of the traffic would be going north. So people would come up here and take a 11 right. I think the other issue is at some point there is a cut off and nobody's denying that somebody will not go through Timberwood. What we're trying to do is suggest making the most difficult route and I think if you drew a line here somplace and said it's illogical for people to back track and go north. So the 11 question is, how many lots in Stone Creek. All 141 wouldn't prefer to go through Stone Creek, or through Timberwood rather. There is some point and maybe this lot would choose to go this way. That's possible. These 4 lots here 11 and there's some in here but it would seem to me that you could draw a line, some weave through here. These logically would have a shorter route going to the west and then to the north or south. And some of them might go through Timberwood. That's possible. Certainly. But we aren't loading 141 people through Timberwood. We are only take those that might find it more convenient to do that. And the question is, you've got 37 home sites in 90 acres or there abouts. If you add another 20 homesites, it probably wouldn't affect your neighborhood a great deal. Granted, you wouldn't want one more. That's why you moved there but the issue is some reasonable approach. Because it won't die with our project. Somebody else is going to come back in and it's a question of I if this is the best. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Potentially we could, Paul? On Stone Creek Court, which the cul -de -sac faces CR 18. What would happen if that road were to go through Lot 10 and veer to the north more? Paul Krauss: We in fact were playing with that a little bit. I'm not sure if it works from a design standpoint. 1 13 1 City Council Meeting - April ? 1992 1 Mayor Chmiel: I'm not either. 1 Paul Krauss: What you basically have to do is come out something like that to get to the top of the hill. You have to come in perpendicular to the road which means you'll probably have to go onto somebody else's property to put a road in. Councilman Workman: Paul? When I see at the tip of Stone Creek 981 and where you're taking it, it's 968. 1 Paul Krauss: I'm sorry Tom, I can't read it from this. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, it's 968 to 985. Is that what you're saying? 1 Councilman Workman: 981 I see down at the tip. And it sounds like, yeah. I mean down here but then it does look like through Lot 10 but you're going up through what would probably be an outlot or something and that seems to drop about. Paul Krauss: Again there's two issues. There's the hilltop which is someplace around here but what you're doing is you're having an acceleration lane to get back onto, to allow traffic to accelerate up to speed. There's going to be a by -pass lane on that side so people can turn into this thing. If you're going to do a similar treatment at these intersections, they start to overlap. Councilman Workman: We can't put it on the downslope. Can we? 1 Councilwoman Dimler: No. Mayor Chmiel: No. Councilman Workman: I mean that's not. Then the traffic coming from the south will surprise them. I/ Paul Krauss: Right. Resident: ...if they're going to go to the north, if I took my car and I started heading downhill right away, I could get going up to speed... Councilman Workman: Want me to make a motion? 1 Mayor Chmiel: Go ahead. Councilman Workman: I'll make it and you guys tell me if it flies. Are we I/ considering three things? The wetland alteration, the rezoning? Councilwoman Dimler: Yes. Councilman Workman: I move to approve the Wetland Alteration Permit, Rezoning of property from A2 to RSF. Mayor Chmiel: Can I make a clarification with that Tom? Items 1 thru 5 and your other items on rezoning? 14 1' 1 City Council Meeting - Ar 29, 1992 Councilman Workman: Okay. And the Preliminary Plat to subdivision 81 acres into 141 single family lots, Hans Hagen Homes with the following additions. Not have what is Timberwood Drive, not have it stub and not have it go through through Timberwood. Have the applicant work with staff to design a second ingress /egress to the north on Galpin. Period. Councilwoman Dimler: Will they still be able to get 141 lots then or do you want to maybe leave that number out? Mayor Chmiel: Maybe with the redesigning, I don't think you can get another lot in that particular. Removal of that portion. Councilman Workman: I'll say maximum of 141. Councilwoman Dimler: It could be less. Mayor Chmiel: Approximately. Councilman Wing: Paul, what I'm coming up with, this site may not be suitable for 141 homes. It's sort of what's coming out here. Paul Krauss: Councilman Wing, if you're asking me to respond to that, there's a lot of ways of approaching that. Councilman Wing: No I'm not. Just a comment. Paul Krauss: I guess I wanted some clarification on your stipulation. We'd be happy to sit down with Roger Gustafson and our staff and the developer and try to figure out how to get a second curb cut in there. But you've got to realize we may not succeed. I mean looking at this and if we can do it, fine. We're in a position to do that but if we're not in a position to deliver on a second curb cut, is there still a condition that they provide two curb cuts? Councilman Wing: I think that's the motion. 11 Resident: You say the second access but not define where it is. Could it be to the east. Could it be to... 11 Councilman Wing: If I'm reading Tom's motion, he's just requiring this plat to get two ways in and out. That's all. Mayor Chmiel: That's what the motion basically was. And I guess if that fails, we can bring it back and review it. Paul Krauss: Again, I need to define this. Does the second curb cut have to be on one of the County Roads on the east side? I mean there is a long term goal potential, if we can get it through at some point in the future, to have another 11 access into there which means you may live with a situation with 141 homes with one access for the next 15 years. Or one year. I don't know. Councilman Workman: And we'll probably have Stone Creek saying no way. Paul Krauss: Well you can bet that would happen. 15 11 City Council Meeting - April '9, 1992 Councilman Mason: That's the whole point there. Councilman Wing: Then if that's the case and if we're going to use that type of time frame, I'm going to solicit the fire department stepping in. I think , that's too many homes, too isolated. Too much, one call for 10,000 population per day and this is you know, getting up to the point where they're going to be calling for help down there. Paul Krauss: Councilman Wing, again I'm not your City Attorney. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, and I don't know if you can do that either. 1 Paul Krauss: You've got an option here for another curb cut. Now granted you don't want to use it but you're denying him the use of a right -of -way that terminates on his property. You've made the situation. If he can't resolve it, it puts you in the position of having to figure out something because this development meets city standards. Councilman Workman: Or somebody needs to come up with a different and better motion. Mayor Chmiel: Just to back off just a tad. Chan Estates roughly has 120 homes 11 with one access. Councilman Workman: Well now they can get out through Brookhill but they 1 didn't. Councilwoman Dimler: They've lived that way for 15 years. For 15 years or more 1 they didn't. Councilman Workman: Of course people were dying by the dozen. 1 Councilman Wing: Paul brought up some valid points Mr. Mayor. First of all I'll second that motion just to stop it. Councilman Workman: Thank you. I don't want to, I want to be able to work with it. I don't want to lock it up so that, yep. That's it. Can't have that curb cut but we need to maybe have the County do a little more work on it and I don't, I'm not taking for granted all the work that Hans Hagen Homes have done and staff have done. So we get another crack at this right? Paul Krauss: You get final plat. Councilman Workman: So, my preference would be that we get it all worked out, resolved by the next time. But if we're all saying that it can't be done and I'm personally sticking pretty close to what I see is trying not to bridge the two, then we do have problems. You know, I don't know how to resolve that. Mayor Chmiel: Right. The only other way you could resolve it is to then relook 11 at the Timberwood access. Councilman Wing: What about Paul's comment that if they are unable to come up 11 with a second curb cut, the option? Are we giving an option to? 16 1 1 City Council Meeting - Apr 29, 1992 Paul Krauss: I don't want to beat a dead horse any more than I have to but if Timberwood is not an option, and it seems like it is not, I'd ask you to word the conditions to the effect that staff work with the developer to attempt to obtain a second curb cut onto the county road but failing that, this layout as proposed without the Timberwood connection will have to be acceptable. Councilman Wing: One other comment before we move on Mr. Mayor. If these first, if you only had one entryway and immediately upon entry if the road T'd, went north /south and looped around, it would effectively give us two ways to get to the back side of the neighborhood without a large entryway going through the middle. Paul Krauss: Except that you'd wind up double fronting lots. Councilman Wing: Yeah, I don't know how this lays out. I just see this loop as being close to the highway. Paul Krauss: That can be done. Mayor Chmiel: We have a motion on the floor with a second. And as Paul indicated, is there any desire to change any of that motion as a friendly amendment? Councilman Workman: I thought I left in there that I wanted staff to work further with the developer and the County to get this second access. That's what's needed. Councilman Mason: And failing that? I/ Councilman Workman: Failing that, I guess we would just have to discuss that at final plat. I mean we're going to have to anyway. 11 Mayor Chmiel: But we're leaving the developer sort of hanging where he doesn't know which way he's going to go either. But maybe through some design or redesign or whatever, I don't know. Councilman Workman: But doesn't the, and I can ask the developer. Don't you think, this looks like an awful lot of homes. Don't you think, and I don't know what's common but isn't this an awfully stressed access anyway? Mayor Chmiel: Tom, just for clarification. You have to remember what our ordinance reads. 15,000 square foot lots and that's what he is really complying with. And when you say whether there's too many homes, I don't think that's the question. Councilman Workman: No, only in relationship to the access. That's fine. I'm just saying in regards to that one access which they're relying on very heavily. L Councilman Wing: We have information that it appears to be inaccessible development the way it's drawn. That concerns me. Hans Hagen: If I could ask a question...because there's no way I can proceed with the property coming up with a final plat and not having a resolution to 1 17 1 City Council Meeting - April 'O, 1992 this. Can I come in for one portion of it and say fine, we'll approve that but you have to resolve the...so I think the preliminary is the point to resolve major issues. That's where roads will go and... This is a major issue and that's a preliminary plat issue... Councilman Workman: Then we'd have to deny it. Councilman Mason: Could I take a shot at it? If staff, developer and County are unable to come to agreement on a second egress, we'll approve the plat with one entrance /egress? If they can't come up with two. I mean it's either that or approve the Timberwood shot so. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. As that to the amendment, as a friendly amendment. Would the first and second accept that? Councilman Workman: So you're saying what Paul had said? 11 Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Richard? Okay. With that I'll call the question then. 1 Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve Wetland Alteration Permit S92 -3 with the following conditions: 1. All wetland areas will be protected during construction by Type III erosion control. The erosion control shall be maintained in good condition until the disturbed areas are stabilized. 2. The proposed wetland setbacks and buffer strip shown in the compliance table for each lot will be recorded as part of the Development Contract. The buffer strip may not be less than 10 feet wide. The buffer strip will be preserved by an easement. 3. Alteration to the wetlands must occur when it results in the least impact to the wetland and not during breeding season. 4. The applicant shall receive permits from the DNR and Corps of Engineers. 5. The applicant shall meet all conditions of the Subdivision #92 -1 and Rezoning 092 -2. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve Rezoning $92 -2 of property from A2 to RSF with the following conditions: 1. The applicant shall enter into a Development Contract containing all of the conditions of approval for this project and shall submit all required financial guarantees. The Development Contract shall be recorded against the property. 2. Compliance with setback standards established in the compliance table. 18 11 1 City Council Meeting - Apr' 29, 1992 3. The applicant shall meet all conditions of the Subdivision #92 -1 and Wetland Alteration Permit #92 -3. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Councilman Workman moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve Subdivision 192 -1 as shown on the plans dated April 21, 1992 with the condition that staff work with the developer to attempt to obtain a second curb cut onto the county road. Failing that, this layout as proposed without the Timberwood connection will be acceptable, and subject to the following conditions: 1. A tree conservation and wetland buffer easement shall be placed on the plat. All building sites in the tree conservation or wetland buffer shall be shown on the building permit. 11 2. The development shall follow the standards in Subdivision Regulations Section 18 -61 regarding Landscaping and Tree Preservation. 3. Parkland shall be dedicated, 8 acres of property, as recommended by the Park Commission, including a 20 foot easement south of the Timberwood 11 subdivision between Timberwood Drive and the park. 4. A front yard variance shall be granted to all homes that fall into the tree conservation area but in no case shall the front setback be less than 20 11 feet. 5. The applicant shall convey to the City a temporary street easement for the temporary cul -de -sac at the end of Boulder Road. In addition, a sign shall be installed on the barricades stating that the street (Boulder Road) will be extended in the future. 1/ 6. The appropriate drainage and utility easements should be conveyed with the final plat over all utilities located outside of the public right -of -ways, along with standard easements over each lot. Timberwood Drive shall be 11 constructed 36 feet wide gutter to gutter. 8. The applicant shall receive and comply with all pertinent agency permits, i.e. Watershed Districts, Health Department, MPCA. 9. Storm sewer calculations for a 10 year storm event along with pond storage calculations for storage of a 100 year storm event, 24 hour intensity, I/ should be submitted to the City Engineer for review and approval. 10. A deceleration and acceleration lane on northbound County Road 19 shall be provided along with a bypass turn lane on southbound County Road 19 to improve turning movements into the development. 11. Watermain pipe sizing shall be increased to 8 inches in diameter on Forest Road and that part of Timberwood Drive lying north of Forest Trail. 12. All storm retention ponds shall be constructed to NURP standards as well as 11 provide storage for a 100 year storm event. 1 19 City Council Meeting - April " 1992 13. A permit from the railroad (Twin City Western) will be required for any grading or construction activity within the railroad right -of -way. 1 14. Fire hydrants shall be spaced approximately 300 feet apart throughout the subdivision in accordance with the Fire Marshal's recommendations. 15. The proposed earth berms along County Road 19 shall be reduced or relocated easterly to provide adequate room for future trail considerations. 16. All areas disturbed during site grading shall be immediately restored with seed and disc- mulched or wood -fiber blanket within two weeks of site grading or before November 15, 1992 except in areas where utilities and streets will be constructed yet that year. All areas disturbed with a slope of 3:1 or greater must be restored with sod or wood -fiber blanket. 17. The developer shall provide adequate access easements for maintenance 1 purposes to the proposed retention ponds. 18. The developer shall construct the utility and street improvements in accordance with the 1992 edition of the City's standard specifications and detail plates and shall prepare final plans and specifications and submit for City approval. 1 19. The developer shall acquire the required utility construction permits from the PCA and Minnesota Department of Health and street access permits from Carver County Public Works. 20. The final plat should be contingent upon the City authorizing a public improvement project for extension of trunk sanitary sewer and water facilities to the site. 21. As a condition of final plat approval, the applicant shall enter into a development contract and provide the financial security to guarantee construction of the improvements and payment of any pending assessment. 22. The applicant shall be given credit for any trunk utility improvements they may install as a part of their overall site improvements. The credit will be applied towards the Upper Bluff Creek sanitary sewer and watermain trunk improvements. The credit amount will be determined as the difference between a standard lateral pipe size (8 inch diameter) and the proposed trunk improvements which are 12 inches in diameter. 23. The applicant /builder shall provide at the time of building permit 1 application a tree removal and grading permit for all wooded lots, specifically Lots 1 thru 7, Block 1, Lots 1 thru 24, Block 4, Lots 1 thru 21, Block 5 and Lots 1 thru 12 and 15 thru 24, Block 4. 1 24. The applicant shall work with staff to explore the possibility of conveying backyard drainage from Block 5 into the development storm sewer system. 1 25. The outlot along County Road 19, Galpin Blvd. needs to replatted with another lot. , 20 1 City Council Meeting - Ari1 29, 1992 26. The applicant shall meet the conditions of the Rezoning #92 -2 and the Wetland Alteration Permit #92 - 3. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Councilman Mason: If I could just make a quick comment. I think people who know me know I tend to not be very pro - development but I would like to thank Mr. Hagen for his consideration...in trying to come up with plans that were... REVIEW PROPOSAL FOR HIGHWAY 5 CORRIDOR STUDY AND COMMENT ON HIGHWAY 5 OVERLAY DISTRICT. Paul Krauss: We've been talking about a Highway 5 corridor study since about a year ago and of course I think we made a lot of progress in a lot of areas. Some areas we haven't. I think tonight's meeting was an interesting one and showed the kinds of things that a highway corridor study could have done. I mean we could have know, we should have ideally have gone through this process before Target or anybody else thought about going there and we would have known what the City's position is and we could have dealt with it effectively. Plus it would been an ordinance and you would have had another tool in the arsenal to make these visions happen. We need those tools. We need something to convert the things that you hear from Bill and Barry and from us into the realty. The last time we met on this you asked me to go back and try to come up with a proposal to put together that corridor study. Put together those elements and 11 those elements include a lot of things. They include working with MnDot to refine the design of the highway. They include designing those arterial, or sorry. The parallel collector streets in an environmentally sensitive and effective manner. It includes working with MnDot and the Metro Council to hopefully procure funding under that Federal Ice Tea Bill. It includes revising the land use plan as necessary to fit this new vision and it includes getting ordinances and a plan amendment into our Comp Plan that again we can put on the table and say, developer. This is the way we want you to do things here. It's part of our ordinances and still give plenty of flexibility. I think tonight you saw how much flexibility you can really have but still get a good idea of what you'd like to achieve. So we started from the concept that those were the goals we wanted to achieve. We also started from the concept that there is I think a fair amount of comfort here with Bill and his staff and a desire to keep them involved. At the same time there's I think a good comfort level with working with Barton - Aschmann. Barton - Aschmann has a good relationship with MnDot and the Highway 5 design folks. They've also had a good relationship I think with the City, with the HRA and designing the streetscape improvements. The complimentary work in accordance with TH 5. So building upon that, we really needed to add a final element and that was a good planning function. Somebody who can convert all these things into the reality. And what we came up ' with is the firm of Camiros who has a working relationship with Barton - Aschmann. They've been in the Twin Cities area for a couple years. Their principle office is in Chicago. I do happen to know their local person. They are working on a number of design projects including Minneapolis' design ordinance. They've got a number of other projects throughout the State and in the area. They're working in Sioux City as well and Galena, Illinois and they've done some interesting work there. I think that's a fairly good fit. What we had them lay 11 out for you was a flow chart of how this study might work and who would be 11 21