CC 2012 10 08
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 8, 2012
Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to
the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mayor Furlong, Councilman McDonald, Councilwoman
Tjornhom, Councilwoman Ernst, and Councilman Laufenburger
STAFF PRESENT:
Kate Aanenson, Paul Oehme, Todd Hoffman, and Roger Knutson
PUBLIC PRESENT:
Greg Fletcher 7616 South Shore Drive
Conrad Fiskness 8033 Cheyenne Avenue
Claire Robling 1169 Butterfly Lane, Jordan, MN
Mary Jane Klingelhutz 545 Lake Drive West #205
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Wendy Peterson Bjorn 555 West 1 Street, Waconia, MN
Laurie Susla 7008 Dakota Avenue
Ron Kleve 7307 Laredo Drive
Ron Roeser 222 Chan View
Mayor Furlong: Thank you and welcome to everybody. Those here in the council chambers as well as
those watching at home. We’re glad that you joined us this evening. At this time I would ask members
of the council if there are any changes or modifications to the agenda. If not, without objection we’ll
proceed with the agenda as published.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman Laufenburger seconded to
approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s recommendations:
a. Approval of Minutes:
-City Council Work Session Minutes dated September 24, 2012
-City Council Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated September 24, 2012
Receive Commission Minutes:
-Planning Commission Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated September 18, 2012
b. Lakeside Outlot D: Approve Agreement with R.E.C., Inc. for Grading.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
John Siegfried: Yes, good evening Mayor Furlong and members of the council. I just wanted to come
here tonight to introduce myself. I’m John Siegfried. I’m a county commissioner candidate that is in the
district, Precinct 4 and 5 of Chanhassen. That area of Chanhassen is included in this District 1. The
balance of it is primarily east of 41 in Chaska so that makes up the District 1 so I was a county
commissioner 10 years ago for 10 years so this isn’t a new adventure for me at all but I’m interested in
Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
getting back into that position and I feel that you know there are some areas that need some improvement
and so on. I don’t really want to get into that right now but I just wanted to introduce myself and let you
know who was one of the candidates that was out and about putting signs up and door knocking and
everything.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, very good. Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Siegfried? Very good, thank you
for coming this evening.
John Siegfried: Okay, thanks a lot Mayor. Sure, you’re welcome.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
Greg Fletcher: Hi, good evening. Mr. Mayor, councilmen and women, thank you. I’m Greg Fletcher
from 7616 South Shore Drive and I’m here representing the Lotus Lake Conservation Alliance with a
public service announcement. The Lotus Lake Conservation Alliance developed a Don’t Move a Mussel
flyer and shared it with all the area lakes. So as you can see it’s an educational flyer reminding the
lakeshore owners of the new invasive species laws that went into effect this year. It provides a link to the
DNR website on the new laws that went into effect. It also provides information on how to determine if a
lakeshore service provider has been permitted by the DNR to perform those sorts of services. The Lotus
Lake Conservation Alliance printed and mailed all these flyers, at our expense, to approximately 1,500
households of Lake Ann, Lake Lucy, Lake Susan, and all of Lotus Lake lakeshore homeowners. We also
printed cards for distribution and mailing for the Lake Riley, Bavaria Lake, and Pearson Lake group
homeowners. And Lake Minnewashta is mailing out to their associations as well. The flyer was also
distributed to all the lakes in both the Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek watershed district, as well as the
Minnehaha watershed district for their use. We also wanted to let you know that the data from the
September boat launches will be available this week and we certainly look forward to working with the
City to develop and aquatic invasive species prevention plan for 2013 that is effective, fiscally responsible
and boater friendly. Thank you very much.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you Mr. Fletcher. Anyone else for visitor presentations this evening? Okay,
thank you.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDER RENAMING THE HILLTOP PARK SHELTER AT LAKE
ANN PARK THE AL KLINGELHUTZ MEMORIAL PAVILION.
Mayor Furlong: Let’s start with a staff report please and then we’ll take public comment on this. Mr.
Hoffman, good evening.
Todd Hoffman: Good evening Mayor, thank you Mayor and members of the City Council. On August
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27 and September 10 of this year the City Council discussed a request made by the Chanhassen
Historical Society Board of Directors to rename the Hilltop shelter at Lake Ann Park to the Al
Klingelhutz Memorial Pavilion. I had a conversation with Mary. There were some different names. The
Aloysius or the Al and Mary’s wishes are that it’s named the Al Klingelhutz Memorial Pavilion if the
council so deems the name to be appropriate. The City does maintain a policy statement regarding the
naming or renaming of public facilities and infrastructure. This policy requires that requests be submitted
formally to city staff along with a reason and justification for that request and documentation supporting
the change. So the letter from the Historical Society is attached and has been made part of the public
record. The proposed name change has been covered in the Chanhassen Villager and advertised as a part
of a three City Council agendas and also published in the Chanhassen Villager. Staff recommends that
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the council open the October 8 City Council meeting for public comment regarding this proposed public
facility name change and in the event that the name change is approved, staff would be happy to work
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
with the Klingelhutz family to schedule a dedication event to be held at the shelter in the spring or
summer of 2013 with an appropriate naming plaque being procured.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any questions for staff at this time? I do want to open up the public
hearing and I know that we’re going to hear comments from various members of the community with
regard to some of the many contributions that Al made to Chanhassen as well so good evening. If you
could state your name and address for the record.
Ron Roeser: I’m Ron Roeser. I live at 222 Chan View here in Chanhassen.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Ron Roeser: Been here all my life and I knew Al all my life and I just want to, I’m sure you read the
letters that we sent out but if we could just kind of run over some of the things that Al did over those
years and the tremendous amount of time that he gave to this community, and you know the county, the
village and so it started in 1960 he was on the township board and the council and the township board
discovered that Chaska was slowly absorbing the township, especially when they absorbed Hazeltine golf
course so they got together and decided that we should merge with the township, which they did and that
created another election and Al was promptly elected to the City Council where he served for quite a
while and something about Al is that he knew so much about the property around here. He knew the
Welter boys and he knew that property back there and he told one of the guys, one of the kids, he said if
you ever want to sell that, after he had become a councilman, he said if you ever want to sell that, let me
know and it wasn’t about 2 years later they said they were ready to sell and we passed a referendum and
that became Lake Ann Park. Then he became mayor and you can imagine this getting up at 5:00 in the
morning and milking cows. Going out and cultivating corn all day. Milking the cows again. Running in
the house. Getting in a white shirt. Running off here so the time he spent and the time he gave to the city
is just amazing and after he was mayor, including the time he almost broke his back sitting on one of
these silly things where you throw a baseball and people came in and helped him farm. The fire
department. You know lots of people came and helped so after he had been mayor for quite a while he
retired and then served 8 years as a county commissioner so there was just I think we really need to
remember this guy and the Historical Society is behind this 100% and if you need anything from us or if
you need, incidentally I’m talking because our President has laryngitis so, but anyway we just think that
this is a good idea and we’re hoping that you will pass this resolution. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you.
Claire Robling: I’m Claire Robling. I’m Al’s daughter and I just want to let you all know that our family
would be very honored to have the pavilion named in my dad’s honor and in memory. We know that he
did put indeed many, many hours of time into developing this city into what it is today. A beautiful city
with wonderful parks and trails and he was so very proud of it. He often talked about how he had worked
to help develop Lake Ann Park and we are, our whole family of course often uses it and really appreciates
the facilities there and it would just be a true honor to have the pavilion named after him.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Conrad Fiskness: Good evening Mr. Mayor and council.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
Conrad Fiskness: My name is Conrad Fiskness. I reside at 8033 Cheyenne Avenue. Been a resident
there since 1968 and in looking around the room here I think I have a perspective on this that’s unique to
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
anybody present. I was a member of the Park and Recreation Commission when the idea for the park was
developed and I was on the commission til it was built and developed and turned over to the City to
operate so I’m here to support the idea of naming the pavilion in honor of Al. I call him Al because he
was that kind of a friend to me. That park would not have happened without him. I remember the, and I
had just been appointed to the Park and Recreation Commission. Was relatively new and the Chair came
in one night all excited. His name was Steve Wolf and he says there is a piece of ground out here and he
says we’ve got to go look at it, which we did and I didn’t even know, I had only been a resident of the city
2-3 years, if that. I didn’t even know there was a lake back there and so we went out and walked through
that little trail going down there and we proceeded and, we got to the point where we, to get the property
and there was only one person that Mrs. Welter would negotiate with and that was Al. And without his
intervening and involvement the park would never have happened. She did keep one acre with her house
as I recall and we bought the other. First we put together the bond issue. $300,000 for 60 acres and
development of a park. Can you do that today? $180,000 for land acquisition at $3,000 an acre and I
went around and spoke to a couple three of the organizations in town and I was told that we were the
stupidest bunch of people that who would ever, ever consider paying $3,000 an acre for some land. But
we did it and we had the assistance of a group called CCC, Chanhassen Concerned Citizens and one of
their members came along with us as a consultant and he helped us, and that was Ralph Thrane and he
helped us put together the program to pass the issue and we spent $120,000 doing all the work. Changing
that piece of ground from a cabbage patch to a park and it’s one of the things that, as I look back that I am
very pleased. Is probably as pleased as anything that I’ve been involved with with the City of Chanhassen
because Lake Ann Park is a wonderful amenity for the city of Chanhassen and Al played an instrumental
part, not only in the development of, or the ability to get the property but just in Chanhassen as a whole so
I heartedly endorse the idea of changing the name to honor his memory.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Wendy Peterson-Biorn: My name is Wendy, good evening.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
Wendy Peterson-Biorn: My name is Wendy Peterson-Biorn. I am the Executive Director of the Carver
County Historical Society based in Waconia. Last Thursday we had a meeting and at that meeting we
wanted to lend our support to the renaming of the pavilion after Al. I’ve thought a couple of ways about
what I should say about him. I guess the best way I can say this is that Al was, not only made history, he
is history. Not in the sense that he’s passed but rather he is part of the Chanhassen history book. Open up
the book and you’ll see Al’s name all over with all the things that he, positive influences and changes he
made here so on behalf of the Carver County Historical Society I would like to lend our support.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else this evening that would like to provide comments. Well thank
you. I appreciate those comments. Let me bring it back to council for thoughts and comments as well.
Councilman Laufenburger, would you like to start?
Councilman Laufenburger: I’d be happy to. Frankly it just gives me a little bit of shivers to think that we
have the privilege of sitting and attempting to conduct the same role that Al did 50 years ago. The
community has changed a lot in those 50 years but it’s still the same small town community that Al and
his family and his family has tentacles that go everywhere, but it’s still the same small town community
with the same small town feel and I can think of nothing better to, I’m going to use Wendy’s words, to
perpetuate the history that Al made in this community and in this county and in this region. He was so
well respected for being a man of character and integrity and Al’s word was honorable and it was, it was
what he stood by. I’m pleased to now 2 months after he passed away that we can act on the permanent
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
action of remembering Al and never forgetting what Mr. Chanhassen did for this community. I support
this action.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other comments. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah, I actually have some comments. I also have a couple questions for Todd. I
can’t think of anything more fitting than to recognize such an honorable man who has done so much for
this city. I definitely think it’s the right thing to do. I was looking in the staff report Todd and I was
wondering is this something that staff would move forward with in getting the plaque made or if you
could give us a little bit more detail in the finances associated with that. I didn’t see any of that in here.
Todd Hoffman: That would be something that we would work on with the historical group and decide
where the appropriate plaque would be placed and what kind of a platform it would be on so we would
work on that throughout the winter and decide on an appropriate, it would be a bronze plaque similar to
some of the plaques that you see on buildings around town.
Councilwoman Ernst: So is that something the, that we would do? The City would do is have the plaque
made or?
Todd Hoffman: We certainly could do that, yes.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Yes. Thank you. Any other comments? Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: One of the phrases I think I heard tonight from the audience is positive
leadership and we lack so much of that in today’s world of politics where it’s negative and it’s almost
mean spirited and I just think back to Mr. Klingelhutz, I’ll call him Mr. Klingelhutz because I didn’t
know him well enough to say Al but Mr. Klingelhutz would sit here and he was a real influence on this
council during many tough issues when he would come and I know a lot of times I would just even look
at him just to see if I could figure out what he was thinking because I respected him that much. You
know he really did have a real footprint on this town and I think it was a big footprint. I’ve seen him and
I know he probably had really big feet and so literally you know he really did leave a legacy which I think
is so important for the people of today to understand because we don’t have a lot of legacies walking
around anymore and so he is certainly one of those people that I wish I would have known him better. He
could have given me some tips about how to sit up here sometimes and do the right thing but I still feel
his presence will always be with us and I think that this pavilion naming is going to be just one more, one
more thing he’s done you know and it will be wonderful to go meet at the Al Klingelhutz pavilion next
summer so thank you for lending us to him for all the times you did, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Well I guess all I can add to that is that I think it’s a well deserved honor and
recognition of what Al did to create this village into a city and you know again he was the first I think
Distinguished Citizen. Rotary understood that. The impact that he’d had upon the community so I think
this is just kind of a long line of someone who was really very, very beloved within the community so
yeah, I wholeheartedly support it and look forward to being there when we cut the ribbon or whatever we
decide to do but yeah, it’s something that’s well deserved so I support it wholeheartedly.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. It’s, Al Klingelhutz was known by many and I think in part because we all
have such a familiarity or have heard how much he has done over the years, that there’s just a known
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
expectation of what he did. I think it is important on the public record, for the public record to recognize
some of his accomplishments, and unfortunately we’re not going to be able to include all of them. What
we know about, what I know about, what many people in our city and Councilman Laufenburger was
right. This is a small town. It’s been a small town since Al was born here. Continues to be a small town
and it’s that small town trait that when we can, that really makes Chanhassen a home for so many people.
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When we can have tens of thousands of our closest friends join us on the 4 of July still every year and
have people come up to me each year and say this is such a great community gathering. Great
neighborhood. This is such a small town feel. And that’s a very important aspect. I was just looking at
some of the, I had the privilege, Mr. McDonald mentioned the Rotary Club honored Al Klingelhutz with
their Distinguished Service Award, the first one that we presented back in 2005 and I had the honor of
interviewing Al at that time. It was, the most difficult job of that was trying to summarize what he did
and get it into a, I won’t even say concise because it’s not concise. You can’t do that but he was honored
by so many different organizations and I’m just looking back here that you know he was, and involved in
so many different things. He was on the Chanhassen Development Corporation Board, the St. Francis
Hospital Board, Chanhassen Chamber of Commerce. He was Chair of that. The Twin Cities Milk
Producers Association, Carver County FHA committee Chair. He received awards from the Chamber of
Commerce as Outstanding Citizen in ’77. A Senior Citizen of the Year in ’89. The League of Minnesota
Municipalities. The C.C. Ludwig Award for Distinguished Municipal Service in ’77. He was a Carver
County 4H Alumni Award. And that’s just some of the other things. We talked about how he was, you
know he got involved in the town board. When he saw some things going on with land development, as I
understand the story, that he said that’s crazy. You know people were building houses on places that
always flood. To your point that he knew this area and he knew the land. He said that’s ridiculous. We
shouldn’t be building homes where we’re going to have problems and that’s why he got involved. And
then to put the effort forward that he did to help Chanhassen become the city it is today. When the village
was going under annexation, or the village existed but it was the township that was going under
annexation. Without that combination of the township with the village we wouldn’t have the city that we
do today. His role in that, as I understand it cannot be understated. We can go on. I won’t go on but I
will say that there are many aspects of this city for which we all enjoy and all appreciate. The parks. The
trails. That it’s small town feel that we’ve talked about. Just how our city operates. This action that’s in
front of the council tonight I think is unique. Certainly we haven’t designated or named a building after
anyone in my tenure here and Mr. Hoffman, have we done it before? We have roads you know after
some but I don’t think we’ve ever designated a building. And so I think this is a very unique action and
who better to start that with for the first time than Al Klingelhutz. His daughter Clair Robling said
tonight that he was very proud of this city and I can think of no other way to show proud the city is of him
than to go forward with his recognition and naming the picnic pavilion at Lake Ann, at his park after him
so I certainly support this going forward and I think is family, before I finish. Mary Jane, all your family,
thank you for sharing him with the city and with the community for all these years because when he was
at city hall or someplace else or at one of the meetings he wasn’t with you so thank you for your sacrifice
and allowing him to be involved as much as he was. With that, yes Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Just one more comment. The accolades that are placed on Al are not
something that he sought. Al was a humble man and a meek man and it is because of his humility and his
ability to understand where there was a problem and he would be part of the solution. It was this that set
him apart but the legacy of Al Klingelhutz is not going to be limited to his name on a brass plaque at the
Hilltop pavilion. His legacy lives in his children and his grandchildren and all of us who knew him.
Mary Jane, you’re a lucky lady. And Al was an even luckier man.
Mayor Furlong: Second.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor.
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
Mayor Furlong: Any other comments? If not I would certainly entertain a motion.
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor if we could, Mr. Laufenburger did a lot I think to help to bring this
forward. I would like for him to make the motion.
Councilman Laufenburger: Be happy to do that.
Mayor Furlong: Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you. Mr. Mayor, I move that in recognition of Al Klingelhutz’s
lifelong commitment to the betterment of Chanhassen and Carver County, and in recognition of the
prominent role that he played in the acquisition and development of Lake Ann Park, the Chanhassen City
Council approves the re-naming of the Lake Ann Park Hilltop Picnic Shelter to the Al Klingelhutz
Memorial Pavilion.
Councilwoman Ernst: Second.
Mayor Furlong: A motion’s been made and seconded. Any further discussion on the motion? Seeing
none let’s proceed with the vote.
Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that in recognition of Al
Klingelhutz’s lifelong commitment to the betterment of Chanhassen and Carver County, and in
recognition of the prominent role that he played in the acquisition and development of Lake Ann
Park, the Chanhassen City Council approves the re-naming of the Lake Ann Park Hilltop Picnic
Shelter to the Al Klingelhutz Memorial Pavilion.All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
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620 WEST 96 STREET VARIANCE: REQUEST FOR VARIANCE FROM SECTION 20-904
OF THE CHANHASSEN CITY CODE TO ALLOW AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IN
EXCESS OF 1,000 SQUARE FEET ON PROPERTY ZONED AGRICULTURAL ESTATE
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DISTRICT (A2); LOCATED AT 620 WEST 96 STREET; APPLICANT/OWNER: ANDREW &
SHANNON RIEGERT.
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. This variance request appeared before
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the Planning Commission at their September 18 meeting and it’s located on 620 West 96 Street which
is just to the west of 101 and north of Pioneer Trail. The applicant is requesting a variance from the 1,000
square foot accessory structure maximum to construct a 2,560 square foot accessory structure on property
that’s zoned Agricultural Estate. The land use, future land use designation of this area is low density.
The applicant’s purchased the property in 1998 with the intention of construction an accessory structure.
The stated intent for the 40 by 60 accessory structure is work for additional, is for additional storage and
work space. Again, and we put some of the background and the accessory structure, kind of the
background of this area in and of itself. There are other accessory structures in this area which I’ll go into
in a little bit more detail but again the applicant when he purchased the home, you can see did provide for
a driveway and stated at the Planning Commission that there was a pad. It’s really unclear to see exactly
how that works for clearly there was a driveway put I place. In addition changes were made to the home.
And, whoops. To the home. The garage, accessory garage was removed and an attached garage was put
in place. On the first page of the staff report we did note too that there is a Manage II wetland adjacent to
the Pioneer Trail which we did not ask to be delineated but there is a wetland in the southern area of this
property. While this is a 4 acre lot, again it is somewhat encumbered with the wetland in and of itself. So
the applicable zoning regulations are the attached maximum 1,000 square foot accessory structure. This
ordinance was adopted in May of 2007 in response to contractors and complaints that we had throughout
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
the city for home occupations. In the history of the city, at one time conditional use permits were allowed
for contractors yards and over time, because there was no cap on those people purchased large lots in
agricultural zones as the city intended to urbanize, as we stated in the comprehensive plan, it’s not the
city’s intent to have large acre lots in the future. That would be in the rural part of the county and our
vision for the community was to provide for more urban development, but that doesn’t mean we don’t
have large lot rural lots in the city. We do also have lots that will, may never have urban services to it
that are larger 2 1/2 estate acre lots, and certainly a 1,000 square foot accessory structure is permitable for
those types of uses. We also have other properties that do have horse barns. Adjacent large horse barns
in this so because some of these properties weren’t being used for agricultural purposes and we were
pursuing a lot of these also through court action that the city undertook a study looking at where these
were happening and decided to put the 1,000 square foot cap on the accessory structures. At the time that
the ordinance went through the Planning Commission and the City Council took a look at the ordinance
and felt that there was you know, should we, what was the right number? What was, for maximum square
footage, again it really came down to looking at kind of the average lot size and again providing those at 2
1/2 acres. I guess the feeling was felt at that time if there was someone that still had horse property and
wanted the agricultural type use, that you would pursue, they could certainly pursue a variance as with
any other person that wanted administrative relief could come through and ask for a variance request in
this circumstance. So then this neighborhood itself, and this is some of the factors that the Planning
Commission looked at. Mr. Riegert in this circumstance you know purchased the home intending to put
the accessory structure on as he was going through his modifications to his home. That was the last part,
last phase I guess of his plan and the ordinance had passed prior to that. We did look at the summary of
the accessory structures in this now most of these were built prior to the cap of the 1,000 square foot
minimum. Some of these there’s no records of building permits being pulled of some of the more recent
ones but that kind of gives you a summary of the area. I just wanted also to describe there is a distinction
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between what’s on the north side of West 96 where those lots are a little bit smaller than on the south
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side of West 96. Where those lots again are approximately 4 acres, plus or minus. That’s also again
encumbered with a wetland on that southern portion. So with that at the Planning Commission meeting
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on September 18 they did hold a public hearing. Some of the neighbors did speak about the character of
their area and certainly the character of that neighborhood is unique but the Planning Commission did
vote 4 to 2 to approve the variance for a 2,000 square foot. A little less than what the applicant had
requested. Because a 75% majority is required to approve the variance and this, it didn’t meet that, their
recommendation therefore, their action therefore forms a recommendation. So what the staff had revised
then would be the recommendation for the, for what the Planning Commission had recommended which
was the additional 1,000 variance to the, was permitted for the 1,000 and also had modified Findings of
Fact to reflect the 1,000 variance to the 1,000 square foot minimum. So with that I’d be happy to answer
any questions that you may have.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for Ms. Aanenson. Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Actually Kate my first question relates to the vote. The decision that was,
occurred at the Planning Commission was 4 to 2 and that was not a, it was a majority but it was not a.
Kate Aanenson: Super majority. It needs 75% of those present voting.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So 75% of the Planning Commission members present would
essentially have negated the need for the action to come to City Council, is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Is it, I’m sorry to clarify, is it the members present or of the entire, of the 7 members?
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
Kate Aanenson: It’s the members present.
Mayor Furlong: I think it’s moot either way because...
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, it’s right. Right. But let me just clarify that your question Councilman
Laufenburger, the question was, because he wanted 2,500 he still has the right to, if he wants the 2,500,
he still had the right to appeal. He could have accepted that so there’s two courses of action.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: He could have said I’ll take the 2,000 and accept that or he could say I would still like to
get the 2,500 and still appeal that recommendation.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, so the action tonight though is the City Council is acting on the
recommendation of 2,000, or the 1,000 square foot variance. Is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: Right. What we had recommended, what the staff had recommended was denial. The
Planning Commission went above that and gave the additional 1,000. His request is for the 2,500.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, so the Planning Commission required, the word you used is super
majority or 75%, so Mr. Knutson why is it that only a City Council requires only a majority vote?
Roger Knutson: Because that’s what your ordinance provides.
Councilman Laufenburger: Man of few words, thank you Mr. Knutson.
Roger Knutson: I believe the philosophy behind it was, if the Planning Commission is going to act you
want to make sure that it’s, it’s pretty unanimous agreement for that decision and if there isn’t pretty near
unanimous decision for that decision you wanted the oversight of the City Council to review it.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So specifically the vote to, the approval requires a simple majority. 3
vote to 2, is that correct Mr. Knutson tonight?
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Roger Knutson: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you.
Roger Knutson: I paused because in one city, it takes 4 votes so I had to, where I work but simple
majority here.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you. Mr. Mayor, that’s all I had.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions for Ms. Aanenson? Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Okay well thank you for clarifying that but then if I understand correctly if we
wanted to as a City Council we could change this to a 1,560 foot variance if we wanted to.
Roger Knutson: You could make it less, yes.
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
Kate Aanenson: Or more.
Councilman McDonald: Wouldn’t that be more?
Mayor Furlong: Wait, the variance.
Roger Knutson: Oh excuse me.
Mayor Furlong: Of the 1,560.
Councilman McDonald: Right, yeah. The variance is 1,560 not the 1,000.
Roger Knutson: That would be more, yes.
Mayor Furlong: Or I guess for clarification we could deny it.
Roger Knutson: Yes.
Councilman McDonald: And do less if we wanted to, okay.
Mayor Furlong: So it’s a recommendation coming from the Planning Commission.
Councilman McDonald: Then the other question I have for Kate is that I’m looking at the properties and
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it looks as though there’s, there’s 7 of them on West 96 Street and I look at what they all have as far as
accessories and it looks like everybody exceeds the 1,000, except for the one lot where they’ve only got a
1,300 square foot accessory but the rest of them, I see 6,000. 4,000. 3,000. 4,000. I mean the norm
appears to be on this street that you know over time, yeah in excess of 1,000 square feet is the norm for
allowing people with out buildings on these lots.
Kate Aanenson: Certainly, and I think that’s what the Planning Commission took into consideration
when they’re giving the additional 1,000. Again they went through the findings for the variances and
struggled with that a little bit. Again we talk about the character on the north side. Again some of them
are, have horses. Some don’t. Some had old contractors yards that were permitted at that time. The
position that we took when we put together the ordinance, and in 2007 that we saw it as these buildings
last a long, long time and these aren’t you know, whether it’s storing things or the next buyer ends up
putting a cabinet shop and those are ones that we spend time trying to resolve neighborhood conflicts.
Now this went into some of the discussion with the Planning Commission because you have like minded
people living next to each other but we do have some situations where they’re not, depending on how the
neighborhood navigates. That was one of the reasons why the staff put in there, if the Planning
Commission did choose to permit something that they put a condition in there that says that no home
occupation be permitted.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. Now there was a public hearing at the Planning Commission, is that
right?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Councilman McDonald: Did anyone speak in opposition to the 2,500 foot building itself?
Kate Aanenson: No. No. The Planning Commission went through the findings of what they felt was
appropriate.
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
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Councilman McDonald: Okay, and again the lots on the north side of West 96 Street are smaller
because, well there is a wetland up there.
Kate Aanenson: Well no. The wetland’s on the south side. Those are just smaller lots. There is a
wetland on the, on this side.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, on the map it looks as though the lots are smaller.
Kate Aanenson: They are.
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: But it’s not because of the wetlands. They’re just smaller.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, it’s just because the lots are smaller.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, the wetland’s in this area. Yes.
Councilman McDonald: Now the other thing that you brought up in the findings in the staff report was
that, okay what we’re trying to do is to prevent I guess businesses operating on these lots. Is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: (Yes).
Councilman McDonald: And what you said was that you know if we do allow this, in the future we tend
to have a problem if someone decides well I’m going to run a business off of my lot. Is that correct that
we have a problem enforcing that?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Correct. There are some, there were some landscaping businesses being
operated out of that area and again you have, it’s residential traffic. It’s not set up for commercial type
traffic. Some people like to store additional things and part of the point is that we brought into the
comprehensive plan, we cited that section to talk about we do provide zoning for those types of, for
storage so again those buildings are going to last a long time so over, it’s hard to think that far in the
future but as planners, you know you’re looking 20 years down the road and we look at this area, we’re
going to have the biggest change in the city in this coming, in this super area in the next 10 to 15 years
and I certainly you know is try to find that right balance of certainly if Mr. Riegert could have built his
property sooner had he known this he probably would have but we’re just apprising you know that these
are the concerns that we have going into the future. Trying to apprise the Planning Commission and the
council.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, and then the question I’ve got is, we can put a requirement in as part of
the variance to limit what could go in. It could only be for personal use, is that correct? Can we do that?
Roger Knutson: Yes, you can.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. And then could you explain to me where does the problem come in with
the enforcement? Is that just because it ends up requiring court action and time and effort to stop any
businesses?
Roger Knutson: That’s pretty much it but part of it is, these buildings are enclosed and we don’t know
what’s happening inside them because we don’t, the only way we normally would find out is on a
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
complaint basis. Some, a new person can buy one of these homes with this and not gone through the
process, even though the variance is recorded. They don’t know what they shouldn’t do or don’t care and
then they all of a sudden you have a wood working shop or you have whatever, a business going on in
there. Then you have to take enforcement action.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. And so at that point then we would be dependent upon a complaint from
the neighbors because of either excess traffic on the road or noise or something along those lines.
Roger Knutson: That’s right. We don’t go knocking on doors.
Councilman McDonald: Right. Okay, I guess that’s all the questions I had for staff and everybody.
Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions for staff? Ms. Aanenson, a couple of them and keep this
picture up. This particular property the acreage for this parcel is 4 acres.
Kate Aanenson: 4 acres, correct.
Mayor Furlong: About 4 acres and how much, and maybe it was easier to see on an earlier slide but
there’s, the wetland on the south side that runs across all these.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Correct.
Mayor Furlong: About how, do you have a sense of what the buildable or the non-wetland acreage is on
this parcel? Approximately. Is it half or is it?
Kate Aanenson: No, it’s probably, maybe if it’s on the first. Here’s the entire parcel.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So it’s quite a bit though.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: So even though it’s 4 acres it’s.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. If that was to come in today we would exclude that from the lot calculation. I
mean this is an older lot but today we don’t include this in the lot calculation.
Mayor Furlong: If it was to come in in a plat.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: You’re saying if we were to plat this the wetland would be delineated and put into an
outlot or something and then the parcel would be.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Yeah and they could count it towards the hard coverage but we’d also
have it, we’d have a setback from that too. We believe it’s far enough away from the wetland edge but
we’d ask for that with the building permit to just make sure based on contours where that would be. We
didn’t ask for a delineation.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And the accessory structures, you said this is guided for residential. Single
family residential but it’s currently in an Ag zoning.
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
Kate Aanenson: Correct. It’s actually guided in the, for low density. Assembling.
Mayor Furlong: Low density.
Kate Aanenson: Yep, so it could be further subdivided. Is the likelihood of that with these structures
there in place, probably not in the short term. When I say short term maybe you know.
Mayor Furlong: As a planner would say.
Kate Aanenson: As a planner would say short term. More than likely because those buildings actually
have you know pretty longer life span now that they’re steel.
Mayor Furlong: Not just the accessory buildings but the homes as well.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Correct. Yep.
Mayor Furlong: Is there in a residential, low density residential is there a limit on accessory structures…?
Kate Aanenson: Only by square footage so if you had an accessory structure you could have a couple of
them at by 10 by 10 so long as it maximized that 1,000 square feet.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, so the 1,000 square feet is the same.
Kate Aanenson: Cumulous, yeah.
Mayor Furlong: For a low density residential zoning.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Here’s it, so the limit of the ordinance of 1,000 square feet of a single or multiple
accessory structures is the same in both the low density residential and in the Ag?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. And again going back to that is that long term wise we didn’t see, there’s rural
residential lots. There’s not that much Ag that has this type of subdivision on it. The rural residential lots
are 2 1/2 acres so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Okay. And are those also 1,000 square feet in rural residential?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: How much do we see in terms of variance requests or applications for accessory
structures in the large lot or the?
Kate Aanenson: Not too many. No. Because once we capped it we’ve seen a couple that had unique,
maybe they wanted to go 10 feet over, 20 feet over or you know less than 100 because they needed an RV
or something like that but not for this much just straight storage sort of thing.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And the others that are there, those were, those pre-dated the current ordinance?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
Mayor Furlong: Or at least to the extent we know.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Yes.
Mayor Furlong: Did they come through and get building permits for those that we know?
Kate Aanenson: Some of them no.
Mayor Furlong: Some of them no, okay. Alright. And they, your sense of when the other accessory
structures in the neighborhood were built or the last.
Kate Aanenson: Well some of these homes were built in, for example this home was built in 1966 so
based on the, when we went through all the PUD’s there’s not a lot of building permit records back then
when those were put in place.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: So again the ones that we have better records on is when they came in and asked for a
contractor’s yard which were allowed as a conditional use so some of those propagated other contractors
yards in an area where they’re not there permitted or not so.
Mayor Furlong: And so, so with contractors yards, if those were approved as a conditional use, are those
still with the property?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Or are they.
Kate Aanenson: They run with the property unless the City was to go through and to void those for
failing to follow the conditions of approval.
Mayor Furlong: And does this particular parcel have that conditional use available to it?
Kate Aanenson: No. No, no. He’s just using it for storage. He has a business somewhere else so.
Mayor Furlong: Right but that doesn’t sit here now?
Kate Aanenson: Yep, no it doesn’t.
Mayor Furlong: With a prior use was not consistent with that.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then with regard to businesses, and obviously this is a concern when you’re
dealing with a residential area even if it’s, regardless of the underlying zoning. I can certainly understand
that. Is there, is there a restriction? Any type of home based business? I mean there are some home
businesses that we talked about that are acceptable.
Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yes.
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
Mayor Furlong: Does our ordinance delineate those?
Kate Aanenson: Yes, our ordinance specifically, that’s our number one complaint in the city.
Throughout the city…any area throughout the city the number one complaint is contractors yards.
Whether it’s a landscaping business or the like, that’s probably. They block mailboxes when someone’s
running out of their home and typically it’s because people park in front of the house and kind of mobilize
for the day but people do piano lessons. People do those sort of things that they can do out of the home
and those are regulated in the city’s home occupation ordinance by a number of trips. Number of outside
employees. By state law you’re allowed to have daycare. If you have more than 6 then it’s conditional
use and we look at how many people are there for help and then where they’re parking. Do they have
adequate back out? Those sort of things. Backing up and not blocking traffic. Again when you’re in a
residential neighborhood and people are going to school buses and those sort of things, got to make sure
we don’t have those kind of conflicting. Obviously there’s probably a neighborhood tolerance in here
that people move in and they’re willing to accept some of that if there’s additional trips in this area.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Are there some contractors working in this neighborhood right now that you’re
aware of?
Kate Aanenson: If you were to look at some of the vehicles parked in the area, I would venture to say.
Mayor Furlong: Very likely.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Or perhaps. Okay. Alright. And then I guess this is a question, maybe this is a follow
up for Councilman McDonald’s question on enforcement of the neighborhood, or the residential home
based businesses. We respond to complaints. What is the level of effort that the City has to go through in
responding to that complaint if indeed there was a prohibitive home based business operating? Mr.
Knutson.
Roger Knutson: If we determine that an unlawful business was operating, you start off by phone calls and
letters and tell them to stop it and we’d ask to come over and inspect it. If they wouldn’t let us inspect it
then we’d get an administrative search warrant and if we found that they were operating illegally and they
wouldn’t stop voluntarily then we go to court. Issue a citation.
Mayor Furlong: So there is time and effort and depending on cooperation or lack thereof it could be more
in some cases.
Roger Knutson: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: The Planning Commission, when they made their recommendation which turned out to
be a recommendation, one of their conditions was to prohibit the use of a home based business consistent
with the ordinance I would assume. Having that in place, is that, I mean is that do anything more than
just having our nuisance ordinance in place? Because it’s recorded with the property.
Roger Knutson: That’s it.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. But there’s additional notice there?
Roger Knutson: An average person I would assume doesn’t, when they go to buy a piece of property
doesn’t go down to the City and check the zoning ordinance requirements or look at the city code but
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
when you have something memorialized on your title hopefully, no guarantees but hopefully that puts you
on notice, or it should about what the rules are.
Mayor Furlong: Would someone doing a title search or something like that would see that then.
Roger Knutson: Yes. If you look on the title it would be right on there memorialized.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for staff at this point? If not is, are Mr. and
Mrs. Riegert here?
Andy Riegert: I am.
Mayor Furlong: Oh, would you like, any comments you’d like to make this evening as the applicant?
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Andy Riegert: Hi, my name is Andy Riegert. I live at 620 West 96 Street, Chanhassen. I, you know I
asked myself what do I like about Chanhassen and a lot of the same stuff comes back to when we were
talking about Al and how it’s a small town and we still have a broad base of citizens and a unique
characteristic of the town and so I don’t want to be put into a small piece of, you know I don’t want to, I
want to be able to have different types of people in this town and I think we’re a unique area obviously
and this type of building obviously fits into this area and this was something we planned on doing a long
time ago when we wouldn’t have had to go through this process. Unfortunately it didn’t work out at the
time but we’re trying to move forward now and I just, I don’t see how it wouldn’t fit in well with the
neighborhood. The talk about the home occupation. Well I’ve got three small children and I certainly
don’t want people driving in and out of my driveway at all hours of the day and so I don’t know how
more to say that that’s not something that I want to do and when you’re talking about it up here I just
want to jump up and say you don’t have to worry about that because that’s not at all my intention. I just
moved by business out to Waconia for at least 5 years so I have no intention of running my business out
of my back yard and quite honestly I don’t want any of my neighbors to either and it’s good. It’s been a
good neighborhood and it’s, we don’t have contractors running in and out like some people think so we
just kind of like to, we have different hobbies I guess than a lot of people have around the area so, and I
think in some of the packets, I don’t know if you have them or not but it shows some of the kind of things
that I would look to store in the building which is why I had originally asked for the I think 2,500 square
feet or whatever it was so, but when they recommended the 2,000 square foot and then the putting some
wording on there about not being able to have a home occupation, that sounds like a good deal to me so I
have no problem with that and I think that’s a good compromise so. That’s all I have to say, thanks.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any questions for Mr. Riegert? Councilman McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Then if I understand you correctly then you’re okay with the recommendation
the way it is for only a 1,000 foot variance to give you a 2,000 foot building and you’re fine with that?
You don’t need the 2,500 square feet then.
Andy Riegert: I would like the 2,500 square feet. However I want you to understand that I have no
intention to run a home occupation out of this building and if that’s what it takes to prove that then I’m
willing to compromise.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. No more questions.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. The only comment I’ll make regard to intentions, and our questions about
home businesses and such like that, as I’m sure you can appreciate. When we’re looking at this or
especially city staff are looking at things, they’re looking very long term and knowing that you’re not
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
going to be the only owner of this property forever and so at the time you sell there’ll be somebody else
buying it and their intentions may be different than what your’s are today and so when we’re looking at
this and considering this, we need to be thinking of long term.
Andy Riegert: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Because these buildings will last a long time. I mean that’s the intention. You put a
large investment into them when you erect them and you expect them to last a number of years and
perhaps after you own the property too so that’s why, so I’m just explaining why we’re asking those
questions.
Andy Riegert: No, fair enough. I understand.
Mayor Furlong: You know your intentions may change or more importantly, and even if they don’t, you
may not be the owner of the property while the building is still here so.
Andy Riegert: Yeah, and I’d be willing to put a window in so you can look in and see what’s in there.
Mayor Furlong: I think we have an ordinance against that, don’t we? People looking in windows. I
don’t know. Sergeant. Okay, very good. Thank you. Oh, question for the applicant?
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, just a question. Andy can you just talk a little bit about what you’ve
done to prepare this space for this building and what you’ve done and when did you do that.
Andy Riegert: Yeah, I moved in in 1998 and I think it was the following summer, I got a permit to put in
a second driveway so I hired a contractor to do all the excavation and bring in like a crushed rock for all
the driveway and then we had a pad leveled, you can kind of see it on the picture but it’s kind of rough
and grainy but about 80 by 100 pad with a gravel surface so basically flatten it all out and just got it ready
for it and then due to financial concerns we just put the project on hold so, until we wanted to move
forward now and that’s when we discovered there was a change in the ordinance.
Councilman Laufenburger: So in your view the pad is essentially it’s construction ready.
Andy Riegert: Yeah. Yep.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Andy.
Andy Riegert: Thanks.
Councilman McDonald: So can I follow up on that then is the pad set up for the 2,500 square foot?
Andy Riegert: Yeah, it is.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Riegert? Thank you.
Andy Riegert: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: There was a public hearing held at the Planning Commission so unless there’s any
significant changes between the Planning Commission and here, I don’t know that we need to have public
comment this evening, unless that’s up to the council. There was some and I appreciate the residents who
did come and speak at the Planning Commission for their comments as well. With that, any follow up
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
questions that people have of staff or any thoughts or comments on this request? Councilman McDonald,
thoughts?
Councilman McDonald: Yeah, I have some thoughts on this. I mean initially whenever I saw this you
know I wasn’t in favor of the variance because, well I’m just not in favor of giving out variances but then
when I looked at all the properties in the neighborhood and everything and I see that everybody else has
got something on there it’s like, it wouldn’t be fair to this gentleman to restrict him to the 1,000 square
foot, especially when all of his neighbors already exceed all of that. And again the property at this
particular point in town is very unique in the way that it’s laid out and what the people do with the
properties and what their expectations are with the properties so you know in looking at this I guess I
probably differ from what the Planning Commission would have come up with. I would be in favor of
again going to the full 2,500 square foot. You know the restrictions that we looked at, I would be willing
to keep those in place to give us some protection within the city because again ownership does change
hands but I really see no reason not to grant the 1,500 square foot variance that the homeowner actually
requested.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any thoughts or comments?
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: I just, I admire Mr. Riegert. He moved in in ’98. A year later he drew a
permit. Now maybe that was, I’m not going to call it naivety on his part because obviously some of his
neighbors didn’t draw permits for some of the things that they wanted but here’s a guy who wanted to do
everything you know legally so to speak and I’m pleased that he’s willing to accept a compromise of
2,000 square feet but I kind of favor Mr. McDonald’s thought of even 2,560 square feet which I think is
the, it’s a rectangular building. I’m not sure what the measurements are. 40 by 60 or something. 42 by
60 but that certainly falls within the range of the other buildings in this area and so I’m in favor of
granting the variance and I’m kind of leaning towards the 1,560 square foot variance versus that which
came from the Planning Commission. That’s just my thoughts. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other thoughts and comments. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: I would also be in favor of supporting the 1,560 square foot variance. I mean I
haven’t heard where it would create, where it’s going against any Minnesota code or where you know
there’s any complications there and I feel that he’s followed all the right paths and the conditions are
really stated in here so as long as we have the conditions in here as Councilman McDonald referred to, I
see no problem supporting the 1,560 square foot.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilwoman Tjornhom, any comments?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: No, I concur with Councilman McDonald and Laufenburger.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thanks. The, quick question Ms. Aanenson. On the condition as it’s laid out here,
I think it’s in the staff report, page 7 where it says the condition for the accessory structure may not be
used for the purpose of a home occupation as defined in the Chanhassen City Code. Does our code say
any home occupation and then excludes ones that are allowed or how is the code set up? Is it, is this
wording sufficient for what I’m sensing the intent of the council and the Planning Commission was?
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
Roger Knutson: I believe it is. It specifies what home occupations are allowed and what aren’t allowed
and this is not zoned commercial so, the only sort of commercial use you could have there are home
occupation. So if you don’t allow home occupations then no commercial activity can take place there.
Kate Aanenson: If I can clarify that. Accessory structures are not, you cannot do a home occupation in
accessory structure. It has to be in the principle structure so.
Mayor Furlong: In any accessory structure you cannot have a home occupation?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Roger Knutson: And that’s because of the concern that, a home occupation’s supposed to be small,
contained and still supposed to look like a home and when you start adding.
Mayor Furlong: You start adding on…
Roger Knutson: Yes, when you start putting them in the garage and you start putting them in the
accessory structures, then they take on a life of their own.
Mayor Furlong: Then it’s time.
Roger Knutson: It becomes a real commercial use.
Mayor Furlong: To relocate the business to a place where it’s zoned for businesses.
Roger Knutson: Yes sir.
Mayor Furlong: Okay so any home occupancy or home based home occupation, and that would also
include any other types of businesses as well within the accessory structure or is that all inclusive?
Roger Knutson: Other than home occupations, commercial uses of this property are already prohibited.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Roger Knutson: Because it’s, the way it’s zoned.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor I have just a question of Kate. What restrictions, or not
restrictions but what, what can Andy, besides building this structure, what else can he add to the
structure? For example can he bring electric utility to the structure?
Kate Aanenson: People often do.
Councilman Laufenburger: Can he bring water to the structure?
Kate Aanenson: People often do.
Councilman Laufenburger: Is there anything that would prohibit from doing that?
Kate Aanenson: No.
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
Councilman Laufenburger: Can he bring natural gas to the structure?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: So he can bring any utility that he chooses as long as it, as long as the
construction complies with the code.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. The thing that we would look for if it becomes a living space then you can’t
have two living spaces so if someone was to put in more than a bath and kitchenette, that sort of thing
then we would look at that.
Councilman Laufenburger: But I’m thinking, you know he wants to you know snowmobile. He wants to
possibly do some maintenance. I think he said that he has an auto refurbishing business, hobby.
Andy Riegert: Hobby, yeah.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah hobby, but he may, electricity I could see. Gas to have an interior
heater of some sort, okay. Alright, thank you.
Councilman McDonald: Mayor if I could, could I follow up on Mr. Laufenburger. Then by having the
building permit, that would give us the assurances that this doesn’t turn into an auxiliary living space, is
that correct?
Kate Aanenson: Yes, assuming permits are done, yep.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: And I understand and generally concur with the comments made by the council in terms
of this in large part because of the current zoning of agricultural versus residential, even though it’s
guided for that, and also I think when we look at the neighborhood as it exists. If I’m not mistaken I think
this is the only property on the south side of the road, at least within the picture we received, that does not
have an accessory structure and I think the smallest one was 1,300 if I’m not mistaken, and maybe that’s
just the width of the picture you know so I.
Kate Aanenson: …based on our computer.
Mayor Furlong: Based on computers and such like that so certainly within the neighborhood it makes
sense. I think the challenge here for the council is, and I appreciate and understand your comments is, is
this an ordinance that needs to be reviewed or is the variance process the process that we want to work
with here? If, because what I’m hearing is, it makes sense. It’s reasonable. With the variance process
there are standards that we need to consider. Practical difficulties and consistencies with general purposes
of the chapter and the comp plan and there are, those are some challenges. Now in the current zoning it
works, and the guiding it would be a challenge and so I think that’s a question for the council. If this
becomes an issue, that it may be something that we have to look at and understand why we have our
ordinance the way we do and perhaps the benefit of having the ordinance at 1,000 and going through the
variance process is it allows us then to apply certain conditions which, as Mr. Knutson said gives more
awareness to future property owners. Certainly it’s clear to the current property owners of what can and
can’t be done there and we’re seeing some problems and maybe that is the benefit of having the process.
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
Kate Aanenson: Yeah I was just going to, thank you Mayor. That’s what I was going to point out is I
think if we went back and looked at those issues of why we brought that up and we specifically identified
neighborhoods. We don’t have that many that are, you know agricultural transitional zones so if you look
in areas of the city where you look at ultimately urbanizing, it does affect development patterns so there’s
not that many that are unique like this. Most of these other large lot neighborhoods are zoned, and have
already been subdivided for large lots so this is a very unique and if you wanted to revisit that issue paper
I think that might be something you might want to take up under a work session.
Mayor Furlong: Right, right and going forward. I think to the extent that it is rather isolated is helpful.
And I guess I will make just one comment and that’s a note of thanks to our Planning Commission
members. Having read through the minutes you could tell that there was some challenges that they had
trying to come up with looking at something that, I’m reading into their comments, seemed very
reasonable on the surface but it didn’t fit the ordinance and we challenged them and appreciate the work
that they do following the ordinance and I think that is the thing that we expect them to do and so I thank
them for that so I don’t want to see this action viewed as somehow not understanding what the Planning
Commission members went through and their thoughtful recommendation as well. Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: One more thought. If we were to grant a variance of 1,560 square feet, that
means he could build up to that amount. He wouldn’t have to build that full amount. He could build
2,000. He could build 1,000 if he wanted.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: In fact he could build 1,000 in this building and then he could build another
accessory structure that would be no larger than 1,560. Am I saying that right Mr. Knutson?
Roger Knutson: You’re approving a specific building.
Councilman Laufenburger: Oh, okay. So this building.
Roger Knutson: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Is, okay.
Kate Aanenson: Mayor I just want to circle back to one more point where you talked about, that issue
paper. What we’re talking about today is looking at a specific lot but part of that issue paper talked at
kind of that nexus and what’s that relationship between lot size and a maximum so that was the other
rational basis to say you know let’s understand what this is being used for. What should be that
maximum and the circumstance you’re looking at character it sits in the neighborhood which is
appropriate for the variance process but you know I think that’s the tipping point kind of saying well what
makes sense for that neighborhood basis which is why they said a variance process when you could take
that input from the neighbors and that process.
Mayor Furlong: So what that is telling me is that the process here, while it may be onerous and time
consuming it is a public process that does have benefits in terms of making sure that the neighbors know
what’s going on. We heard at the Planning Commission that they spoke in favor of it. That it gives staff,
the Planning Commission and the council the opportunity to look at the neighborhood and make sure
something different than just what’s allowed by ordinance because if somebody wants to fit within
ordinance they can just do it without public notice. Any public hearings. Any of the process.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
Mayor Furlong: So there is value from a, perhaps again I guess value might be the wrong word but there
is a public purpose to what has gone on here. Mr. McDonald, and then we’ll move on.
Councilman McDonald: I guess Mr. Mayor, yeah. If I could just add. You know I kind of agree with
what Ms. Aanenson said and everything. Again when I looked at this I did look at the neighborhood and
it’s like what’s the norm within the neighborhood. If there had been no other out buildings on any of
these lots, well I would have been probably against all of this because at that point I mean you’re putting
a 2,500 square foot out building in an area that is going to stand out but that’s not what the applicant is
doing so I think the process that we’ve got in place is fine and the Planning Commission did what they’re
supposed to do. They evaluated this based upon the ordinances and based upon what they could do and
then sent it up to the Planning Commission with their findings and everything from which we can make a
determination of do we accept their recommendation or not. So I like that part of the process and again as
you said, we did put the neighborhood on notice. There was a public meeting. Everyone is aware of all
of this. Again one of the questions I asked was, does anyone you know contest it or protest and the
answer is no so it’s very acceptable that something like this you know fits into the neighborhood so I like
the process I guess and just getting to your point, do we need to relook at this. I would say probably not.
As you pointed out, yeah if you want to stay within the ordinance go ahead and build up to 1,000 square
feet but anything above that we probably do need to look at the neighborhood. Is that going to fit? Let’s
make sure that it is compliant within the area so I guess that’s why I would just argue that maybe we
don’t need to look at anything.
Mayor Furlong: And that’s possible. I think the other advantages I mentioned too is that it allows
conditions to be included if a variance is approved and those conditions can be helpful in terms of future
property owners as well. Thank you. If there’s no other comments I would certainly stand.
Councilman McDonald: If I could I will do the motion.
Mayor Furlong: Councilman McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: I make a motion that the Chanhassen City Council approves Planning Case
#2012-10 for a 1,560 foot accessory structure variance subject to conditions outlined in the staff report
and adoption of the attached Planning Commission Findings of Fact.
Mayor Furlong: Actually these are being revised tonight.
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
Roger Knutson: Revising the numbers.
Councilman McDonald: Revising the numbers accordingly.
Councilwoman Ernst: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Is there any future discussion? Hearing none we’ll
proceed with the vote.
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that the Chanhassen City Council
approves Planning Case #2012-10 for a 1,560 square foot accessory structure variance from the
1,000 square foot accessory structure limitation to allow for a 2,560 square foot accessory structure,
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Chanhassen City Council – October 8, 2012
subject to the following conditions and adoption of the attached Planning Commission Findings of
Fact, revising the numbers accordingly:
1. The accessory structure will require a building permit.
2. The accessory structure must comply with Minnesota State Building Code.
3. Outdoor storage must comply with City Code.
4. The accessory structure may not be used for the purpose of a home occupation as defined in the
Chanhassen City Code.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS.
None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS.
None.
CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION.
None.
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted
in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City Council meeting was
adjourned at 8:20 p.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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