1c. Progress Valley Storage, Zoning & Interim Use Permit 1
1 CITYOF i �
I
, , CHANHASSEN
I 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937 -1900 • FAX (612) 937 -5739
1 Action by City AdmintstrIOR
I MEMORANDUM - Ili, - .
TO Don Ashworth, City Manager c: - _--- p--` Z"`
D .., _ a-1r 'r 1.
1 FROM: Jo Ann Olsen, Senior Planner - s
DATE: February 19, 1992 - � -,
SUBJ: Progress Valley Mini- Storage Facility, 1990 Stoughton Avenue, Gary Brown
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On February 10, 1992, the City Council approved a conditional use permit for truck and
1 trailer rental at the Progress Valley Mini - storage site. The City Council also approved the
first reading for a zoning ordinance amendment allowing screened outdoor storage as an
interim use in the BF, Fringe Business District. The interim use permit for outdoor storage
1 could not be approved until after approval of the second reading of the zoning ordinance
amendment.
1 RECOMMENDATION
Staff recommends the City Council approve the second and final reading of the zoning
ordinance amendment and to also approve Interim Use Permit #92 -1 to permit outdoor
storage with the following conditions:
1 1. The outdoor storage shall be completely screen ed by a 100% opaque fence or
landscaped screen.
1 2. The area for screened outdoor storage shall be improved with a gravel surface.
I 3. The outdoor storage will be removed from the site upon completion of phase 3 of
the mini- storage facility.
I 4. The applicant shall provide a landscaping plan acceptable to the Planning
Commission and a letter of credit shall be submitted to cover the cost of material
installation and one year warranty."
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tii PRINTED ON RECYCLED PAPER
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1 Don Ashworth
February 19, 1992
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ATTACHMENTS
1 1. City Council minutes dated February 10, 1992.
2. Staff report dated January 15, 1992.
1 3. Planning Commission minutes dated January 15, 1992.
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Jim Curry: h is is what he
Y: just pointed in the works. It seems to me you're
better off to get the cost then instead of interest on interest on interest.
The cost of putting those things isn't going to go up. It's not my issue but I
mean that's your alternative. Either interest from now on and that way he can
do his property now and we can go on.
Counciin n Wing: Mr. Mayor, are there some unanswered questions here regarding ,
some of these issues on assessment and interest that maybe makes a decision
tonight this much premature? I'm just slightly getting a little buried now. I
think I'd like a little more clarification on some of the concerns by Mr.
Klingelhrrtz and Mr. Curry. It might make a decision much more intelluctual. I
feel like we're kind of groping to get this through and I want to get the
development going. That's a real valid point. I'm not asking for a long delay
but certainly by the next meeting we could make a firm decision on this. Maybe
with a lot more input from the City Manager and City Attorney on what's best.
And if there was any feeling on your part for that, I would withdraw the motion.
If not, if stands. I'm happy either way. I'm looking to you for. '
Mayer Chmiel; I don't know, if we were to delay I don't think we'd probably
corn hp with any other answer for right now that we're coming up with at this
time.
Counc ilman Wing: Let the motion stand then? '
Mayor Chmiei: Yeah.
Connrilwwman ['imler: And I'm satisfied that the people in green'acres would be
better off with the way we're proposing and then with interest on interest. So
I think in the long run they'd be happier with that too.
Mayor C:hmi el : Okay. Any other discussion? ,
Resolution #92 -20: Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Mason seconded to
authorize the preparation of plans and specifications for watermain and sanitary
sewer improvements in Section 24 and Lake Riley Hills as presented in Alternate
2 with the intent for approval being that the REC charge being established for
properties within the green acre designation would be charged at the then
current REC charge when those properties develop. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING: PROGRESS VALLEY MINI- STORAGE FACILITY, 1900 STOUGHTON AVENUE, '
GARY BROWN.
A. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW RENTAL OF TRUCKS AND TRAILERS.
B. ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO ALLOW SCREENED OUTDOOR STORAGE AS AN INTERIM
USE PERMIT IN THE BUSINESS FRINGE (BF) DISTRICT.
C. INTERIM USE PERMIT TO ALLOW SCREENED OUTDOOR STORAGE. 1
Jo Ann Olsen: Briefly, the applicant first applied for a conditional use permit
to allow the rental of trucks and trailers. This is permitted as a conditional
use permit in the BF district. The Planning Commission recommended approval of
the Conditional Use Permit with the conditions in the staff report. The second
item was a zoning ordinance amendment to allow.screened outdoor storage as an
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City Council Meeting - February 10, 1992
interim use permit in the BF district. The applicant requested to be allowed
outdoor storage. The ordinance did not allow that as a permitted or a
conciitional use so we did amend the ordinance. Recommend amending the ordinance
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to allow it as an interim use and that it has to be totally screened. The
Planning Commission recommended approval of this ordinance amendment. And the
last oi-rti«n was ihe actual interim use permit for the screened outdoor storage
arid again the Planning Commission recommended approval with the conditions in
the („|aff report.
Ma>x Chmiel: Thank you. Is the proposer wishing to address the Council at
th time? On what staff has indicated. Gary, do you have anything you'd like
to arid to?
~~ Gn// Frown: No, I agree with everything.
M^�^r r|'*iP]: Alright' As Z mentioned before, this is a public hearing. Is
th+'' an~onp else wishing to address this at this time? Going once. Going
twice. Going three times. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing?
Councilwoman Dimler moved, Councilman Mason seconded to close the public
hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was
closed.
Mee Chmle]: Discussion.
rnun~ilman Mason: I think if the Planning Commission is okay with it, it sound
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Hi, rh�lel: Also staff recommendations as such?
-- [nuncilmin Mason: Yes.
Dimler: I just have one. I usually don't like to alter ordinances
frr one particular situation that's occurring because it might affect some other
hxejncs" |ring* districts. Can you think of any other area that this would
affect that thpy may not?
J` Ann O]npn: You m'an in the BF district?
Councilwoman Djm]pr: Yeah. Do we have any other BF districts that this will
really affect adversely?
Jo Ann Olsen: No. I mean there's one other storage facility in the BF district
and they are permitted a certain amount of outdoor storage but it essentially
has to be screened already. So no, it's consistent with outdoor storage in all
the other districts in the city.
Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. Then I don't have a problem.
Mayor Chmiel: Jo Ann, just one other question I had. With the storage of the
trucks and facility per se contained on site, will any of these have any
maintenance being done on those vehicles?
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City Council Meeting - February 10, 1992 1
Jo Ann Olsen: Thc; should not have, no. Nor can they be stored in the
bui ldi(
Ma _i Ci Biel: Alright.
CnunLilwOrndn Dirr,ler: I move approval of item 4.
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Councilman M , on: Second. '
Mayor Chmi : Yes Roger.
Roger lenutcon: Can 1 point out one procedural item. 4(b) is an ordinance ,
amPncm ant. This would be the first reading unless you waive the second reading
and sirnrE ; Cu can't approve 4(c) until 4(b) has been accomplished.
Mayor Chmie.i: We can go 4(a) and have this as a first reading for the zoning ,
ordinance amendment?
Roger VrIn4 Right and then table (c). ,
M "or C h n, ; -1 : And' table item (c) . So if we could get a motion for that with
item ,,ppY item (b) as a. first reading; and item (c) as a. '
Counr , !,: ;r, r, ;, C i n l e r : Contingent. I so move.
Co.ncilm n hia_on: Second. And then the rest will go on Consent Agenda next
time
Mayor Chn,iei: That's correct. Right.
Councilwoman Dimier moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve Conditional Use
Permit $87 -2 for the rental of trucks and trailers with the following
conditions:
1. Th: applicant shall provide a landscaped screen with evergreens along the
ferc, line at the southwest corner of the site.
2. Thp storage of the trucks and trailers shall be confined to the area as
:.11n on l he site plan and the area shall have a gravel surface. .'
3. Th=' applicant shall provide a landscaping plan acceptable to the Planning
Commission and a letter of credit shall be submitted to cover the cost of
material installation and one year warranty.
4. ThGrP shall be no more than 20 trucks and 4 trailers and no trucks can
evceed 2( feet in length.
Also, to approve the first reading of Zoning Ordinance Amendment X92 -1 by adding
Article II, BF, Fringe Business District, the following to Section 20 -775, 1
Interior Uses:
.i Screened outdoor storage.
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City Council Meeting - February 10, 1992
Amend Division 4, Standards for Business, Office, Institutional and Industrial
Districts by adding the following=
Section 20 -294. Screened outdoor storage.
TIC, following applies to screened outdoor storage:
',11 outdoor storage must be completely screened with 100% opaque
fen• :c_ or landscaped screen.
And to table action on the Interim Use Permit until after the second reading of
the Zoning Ordinance Amendment. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Mayor rhmiel: Now we did indicate, I should back up on that one with all the
' recofi,m , no , aiLons of {.iaff on each of those perspective items.
Corr il.vom „n Dim er: Right.
cou i.Im.7n Kling: Tt appears that Mr. Brown is stunned. You might, want to
e 1,"i 1h t it' over
' Ma/or Chnicl: You can leave, thank you.
r,,,, . Prown: Wh't would you like me to explain:'
Vino: No, you look stunned. I was just trying to explain, it's
over. Hone, You can go home.
r:! PiOWD : Ph, thanks a lot. Send me a letter as to what you want done.
ChmiF1: Yes, Just send money.
AWARD OF BIDS: CHANHASSEN FIRE DEPARTMENT, RESCUE TRUCK.
I/ ! f' ' Mr. Mayor and City Council. I'm here tonight to recommend the
pirrcha.:r of a Dew heavy rescue truck as discussed in my memo to you, that was
i.vii in tonight's Council packet. Also in attendance with me tonight are
nPr r r Wi Y elected Fire Chief, Jirn McMahon and Captain Bob Halvorson who has
t h t ru r k committee. Any of us will be happy to answer any questions
;OH ma'- have about the recommendation. It is a recommendation of the Fire
rhi:=f, Ih: truck committee, the general membership of the Chanhassen Fire
Dep rin;; ni, the Puitic Safety Director and City Manager that the bid from Lynch
Di l.,/ Vans be accepted and that the Public Safety Director be directed to
proreed with thr purchase of a vehicle and necessary equipment providing that
ary rosi about the $102.,000.00 system be funded from other existing sources,
in lrcing isir.> transfer of funds from the utility department fund so as to permit
1 h, m to uc,p the existing vehicle.
M,. >nr ChmiEl: Thank you. Are there any specific questions that anyone may
have_.^ LO shift through this proposal for a rescue vehicle purchase.. Tt
app.-ars that we have the Lynch Display Vans, Inc., the people who have the low
h r what's being recommended is we authorize staff to establish the
fair mj ; value of the old rescue truck. Authorizing it's transfer to the
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ITY O F Pc; DATE: 1/15/92
1 CHANHAtill
CC DATE: 2/10/92
CASE #: 87 -2 CUP,
92 -1 ZOA, 92 -1 IUP
B : Olsen:v
STAFF REPORT
PROPOSAL: 1. Conditional Use Permit to Allow Rental of Trucks
and Trailers.
2. Zoning Ordinance Amendment to Allow Screened
i sm Outdoor Storage as an Interim Use Permit in the BF,
Z Fringe Business District.
Q 3. Interim Use Permit to Allow Screened Outdoor
Storage.
ii ! LOCATION: Northwest corner of County Road 10 and Hwy. 212
Q APPLICANT: Gary Brown Gary,Dungey
1831 Koehnen Circle 1910 Stoughton Avenue
Excelsior, MN 55331 Chaska, MN 55318
PRESENT ZONING: BF, Business Fringe District ✓D)Pr
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ACREAGE: • 14 acres
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING AND
LAND USE: N - A2; vacant
-10 _
S - A2; single family
E - A2; single family
Q W - A2 & BF; single family and Gedney Pickle
4 WATER AND SEWER: Not available to the site.
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W PHYSICAL CHARACTER.: The site was farmed and slopes toward the
northwest.
2000 LAND USE PLAN: Agriculture
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Brown /Dungey CUP
January 15, 1992
1 Page 2
BACKGROUND
' On May 4, 1987, the City Council approved a conditional use permit
for a mini- storage facility (Attachment #1). The conditional use
permit was approved with the following conditions:
1 1. One tree for every 40 feet be provided along the berm
between the vehicular area and right -of -way and the berm
must be two feet high.
2. A description of the plantings proposed meeting the
minimum standards of six feet high (evergreens) and two
and one -half inch caliper (deciduous).
3. The landscaped areas must be sod or seeded.
4. A detention basin should be included in the
site drainage plan and be designed to limit
II the on -site runoff to the pre- development rate
for a 100 year storm event.
5. If possible, align Stoughton Avenue site access with
1 driveway access on the south side of Stoughton Avenue.
6. Parking areas and access drives shall be paved with a
dust free, all weather surface built to a 4 -7 ton
capacity.
7. Concrete curb and gutter will be required only along the
outer edge of the perimeter drive around the site.
8. No outdoor storage is permitted.
9. Submission of an emergency access easement agreement.
' 10. Installation of a 1,500 -2,000 holding tank, plus
installation of a one gallon toilet, a spring loaded
faucet, a float alarm, and a man hole over the system if
located underneath a driveway.
1 11. Permit chain link fence of 6 feet in height around
perimeter.
The applicant has completed one of three phases of the mini- storage
facility, and is in the process of constructing phase 2 In
September of 1991, staff visited the site to determine if the site
was in compliance with the conditions of approval. Upon inspection
of the site, staff found that there was outdoor storage of boats,
U -haul vehicles, etc., which is in violation of condition #8.
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Brown /Dungey CUP
January 15, 1992
Page 3 '
Condition #7 also has not been met. All of the other conditions of
approval have been met. '
Staff sent the applicant a letter stating the outdoor storage was
in violation of the conditional use permit and the rental of trucks
was a separate conditional use in the BF district. The letter
further stated that the applicant must apply for an amendment to
the original conditional use permit for the outdoor storage and
must apply for a new conditional use permit for the rental of ,
trucks.
On November 6, 1991, the Planning Commission reviewed the
conditional use permit amendment to allow outdoor storage and a
conditional use permit to allow rental of trucks and trailers in
the BF District. The Commission recommended tabling action on the
item until the City Attorney could review whether or not the zoning 1
ordinance had to be amended to allow outdoor storage in the BF
District. During the discussion by the Planning Commission, it was
stated that if outdoor storage was to be permitted in the BF, it
should be permitted as an interim use permit.
Staff contacted the City Attorney, who agreed that the best way to 11 address this issue would be to amend the ordinance to specifically
allow outdoor storage as an interim use permit in the BF District.
Staff advertised the zoning ordinance amendment to add screened
Outdoor storage as an interim use in the BF District.
PROPOSAL /SUMMARY 1
Gary Brown and Gary Dungey, the owners of Progress Valley Storage,
have made application to receive a conditional permit to permit
rental of trucks and have applied for an interim use permit for
outdoor storage in the BF District. The site is located south of
Hwy. 212 in the BF district. Currently, uses in the BF District
are only allowed by conditional use permits and those are limited
to the following:
Motor fuel stations without car washes. 1
Truck /Trailer rental.
Utility services. ,
Cold storage and warehousing.
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Brown /Dungey CUP
January 15, 1992
Page 4
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW TRUCK AND TRAILER RENTAL
The applicant is requesting approval of a conditional use permit
for the existing rental of U -haul trucks and trailers. The trucks
and trailers will be stored where the outdoor storage is proposed.
The Zoning Ordinance permits truck /trailer rental in the BF
District as a conditional use permit. There are no specific
conditions for truck /trailer rental, but there are the following
general conditions:
1. Will not be detrimental to or enhance the public health,
safety, comfort, convenience or general welfare of the
neighborhood or the city.
1. The site currently is a commercial use and the addition
of an accessory commercial use will not be detrimental to
the neighborhood and city.
2. Will be consistent with the objectives of the city's
comprehensive plan and this chapter.
2. The site is designated as commercial and the proposed use
is consistent with the designation.
3. Will be designed, constructed, operated and maintained so to
be compatible in appearance with the existing or intended
character of the general vicinity and will not change the
1 essential character of that area.
3. The site is currently being used as a mini - storage
facility, which is a commercial use. The addition of
truck rental does not change the character of the site
nor will it change the essential character of the area.
1 4. Will not be hazardous or disturbing to existing or planned
neighboring uses.
4. The use will not be hazardous or disturbing to existing
or planned neighboring uses.
5. Will be served adequately by essential public facilities and
services, including streets, police and fire protection,
drainage structures, refuse disposal, water and sewer systems
and schools; or will be served adequately by such facilities
and services provided by the persons or agencies responsible
for the establishment of the proposed use.
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Brown /Dungey CUP
January 15, 1992
Page 5 '
5. The use will be served adequately by essential public
facilities and services.
6. Will not create excessive requirements for public facilities
and services and will not be detrimental to the economic
welfare of the community. 1
6. The use will not create excessive requirements for public
facilities and services. '
7. Will not involve uses, activities,' processes, materials,
equipment and conditions of operation that will be detrimental
to any persons, property or the general welfare because of
excessive production of traffic, noise, smoke, fumes, glare,
odors, rodents, or trash.
7. The use will not be detrimental to any persons or ,
properties.
8. Will have vehicular approaches to the property which do not '
create traffic congestion or interfere with traffic or
surrounding public thoroughfares.
8. The site has existing access which has not caused any
problems. The addition of truck rental should not create
any traffic conflicts. 1
9. Will not result in the destruction, loss or damage of solar
access, natural, scenic or historic features of major
significance.
9. The use will not result in the destruction or loss of
features of major significance. '
10. Will be aesthetically compatible with the area.
10. The use is not proposed to be screened from surrounding . 11
properties. The site is surrounded on three sides by
residences. The use is aesthetically compatible with the
site, but not necessarily with the area.
11. Will not depreciate surrounding property values.
11. The addition of a visual impact on surrounding properties
could depreciate surrounding property values. The fact
that the use is within an existing commercial site should 11 reduce the impact on surrounding properties.
12. Will meet standards prescribed for certain uses as provided in
this article. 1
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Brown /Dungey CUP
January 15, 1992
Page 6
12. There are no specific standards for truck /trailer rental.
' The truck and trailer rental will also be partially visible from
surrounding properties. If this were an original application,
staff would be recommending approval with the condition that the
' storage of trucks and trailers be screened. The existing condition
of the site makes complete screening of the trucks and trailers
difficult to impose. Staff is recommending screening in the form
' of landscaping between the truck and trailer storage area and
surrounding homes to the south, east, and west. The truck and
trailer storage will continue to be partially visible from Highway
212.
With the addition of landscaped screening, staff feels the rental
of trucks and trailers at this site could be permitted since it is
currently allowed as a conditional use in this district and since
it fits with the existing use of the site.
PLANNING COMMISSION UPDATE
The Planning Commission reviewed the conditional use permit for the
rental of trucks and trailers and agreed with staff's
recommendation and also added another condition as follows:
4. There shall be no more than 20 trucks and 4 trailers and no
trucks can exceed 26 feet in length.
RECOMMENDATION
Staff recommends the City Council adopt the following motion:
"The City Council approves Conditional Use Permit #87 -2 for the
rental of trucks and trailers with the following conditions:
1. The applicant shall provide a landscaped screen with
evergreens along the fence line at the southwest corner
of the site.
2. The storage of the trucks and trailers shall be confined
to the area as shown on the site plan and the area shall
have a gravel surface.
3. The applicant shall provide a landscaping plan acceptable
to the Planning Commission and a letter of credit shall
be submitted to cover the cost of material installation
11 and one year warranty.
4. There shall be no more than 20 trucks and 4 trailers and
no trucks can exceed 26 feet in length.
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Brown /Dungey CUP
January 15, 1992
Page 7 1
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO ADD SCREENED OUTDOOR STORAGE AS AN
INTERIM USE PERMIT IN THE BF DISTRICT
Currently, the Zoning Ordinance does not permit screened outdoor
storage within the BF district. Screened outdoor storage is
permitted in other business districts within the city as a
conditional use permit (BH, CBD, and IOP districts). There is one
other mini - storage facility located in the BF district which was
permitted outdoor storage as part of the conditional use permit.
In this case outdoor storage can'only be provided to persons who
are renting a storage bay. Each storage bay was allowed 1,200
square feet of outdoor storage for a total of 9,600 square feet.
The outdoor storage was only permitted within the parking area
where it was screened by existing vegetation and topography and
excluded junk vehicles, construction debris, appliances, and any
items determined by staff to be unsightly and warrant indoor '
storage. The outdoor storage was to be reviewed annually at which
time the city could require additional screening or removal of
certain items.
Since screened outdoor storage is permitted in other
business /commercial districts within the city, staff feels it could
also be an appropriate use in the BF district, but only if it is
totally screened as required in all other districts. The BF
district is not serviced by city sewer and water and uses permitted
in the BF district should be ones that do not require sewer and
water. Screened outdoor storage does not require sewer and water.
Allowing screened outdoor storage as an interim use permit allows
the city to establish an expiration date for when the use would no
longer be appropriate at that location.
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PLANNING COMMISSION UPDATE
The Commission unanimously recommended approval of the amendment to 1
add screened outdoor storage as an interim use in the BF District.
RECOMMENDATION i
The City Council approves first reading of the Zoning Ordinance
Amendment #92 -1 to add Article XX, BF, Fringe Business District,
the following to Section 20 -775, Interim Uses:
(3) Screened outdoor storage. '
Amend Division 4, Standards for Business, Office, Institutional and
Industrial Districts by adding the following: 1
Section 20 -294. Screened outdoor storage.
The following applies to screened outdoor storage: 1
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Brown /Dungey CUP
January 15, 1992
Page 8
(1) All outdoor storage must be completely screened with
100% opaque fence or landscaped screen.
INTERIM USE PERMIT FOR SCREENED OUTDOOR STORAGE
The applicant is requesting an interim use permit for outdoor
storage at the mini - storage facility. When the original
application was reviewed by the Planning Commission and City
Council, staff recommended a 100% opaque fence, as is required by
the zoning ordinance for commercial uses adjacent to residential
uses. The Planning Commission recommended approval of the
conditional use permit with staff's condition for screening of the
site. The City Council permitted the conditional use permit with
a chain link fence. The applicant wished to have the chain link
fence for visibility from the street for police and fire
I protection. Therefore, the site is not screened from adjacent
property.
The outdoor storage is proposed to be confined to,where phase 3 of
the mini- storage facility is proposed and will be removed when
phase 3 is developed (Attachment #2). The outdoor storage is on an
unimproved surface. The area for outdoor storage should be
improved with a gravel surface to define the area of storage and
allow maintenance of the site. There is no proposed screening for
the outdoor storage. Since the site is fenced with chain link
11 fence it will be difficult to now provide screening for the outdoor
storage. The outdoor storage is partially visible from Hwy. 212
and Stoughton Avenue.
A condition of the interim use permit to allow screened outdoor
storage is that the outdoor storage be totally screened by a 100%
opaque fence or landscaped screen. Although the site is in the BF
district and has had requirements for commercial sites waived in
the past, staff still feels those requirements should be upheld.
The city is in the process of reviewing the BF district and how the
area can be improved. Allowing unscreened outdoor storage does not
improve the current status of the area. Therefore, staff is
recommending that outdoor storage not be permitted unless it can be
' completely screened as required in other commercial districts.
PLANNING COMMISSION UPDATE
11 The Commission unanimously recommended approval of the interim use
permit with staff's recommended conditions.
RECOMMENDATION
Planning staff is recommending that the City Council adopt the
following motion:
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Brown /Dungey CUP
January 15, 1992
Page 9 1
"The City Council approves Interim Use Permit #92 -1 to permit
outdoor storage with the following conditions:
1. The outdoor storage shall be completely screened by a 100%
opaque fence or landscaped screen.
2. The area for screened outdoor storage shall be improved with 11
a gravel surface.
3. The outdoor storage will be removed from the site upon
completion of phase 3 of the mini- storage facility.
4. The applicant shall provide a landscaping plan acceptable to
the Planning Commission and a letter of credit shall be
submitted to cover the cost of material installation and one
year warranty." 1
ATTACHMENTS
1. City Council minutes dated May 4, 1987.
2. Planning Commission minutes dated November 6, 1991.
3. Site plan.
4. Planning Commission minutes dated January 15, 1992.
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271
City Council Meeting - May 4, 1987
11 really feel bad about that. It's an unfortunate thing that happened but I
certainly hope it doesn't happen again.
Councilman Johnson: When you say the engineer, I would like to comment that
the soil borings given by his consultant that he hired showed it to be good.
I do work with soil borings and it's hard for me to believe that we missed a 4
to 5 foot deep seam of peat with two soil borings in it.
Larry Brown: If I may make one other comment. The preliminary plat that was
given to McCombs - Knutson, there had been an error in it at the time the soil
borings were taken and that might account for a portion of that bad soil.
Being that the cul-de -sac mentioned Stellar Court was 10 feet off -line. It
was shifted 10 feet.
Councilman Geving: I still don't think that's a good excuse. This damm thing
is 30 feet wide.
Resolution #87 -36: Councilman Geving moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to
approve the Change Order Request for Lake Lucy Road. All voted in favor and
motion carried.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUEST FOR MINI - STORAGE FACILITIES ON PROPERTY ZONED
B -F, FRINGE BUSINESS DISTRICT AND LOCATED AT THE INTERSECTION OF TH 212 AND
STOUGHTON AVENUE, GARY BROWN.
Jo Ann Olsen: Just today we received these letters. One is from the LCR
Corporation and the other one is from the City of Chaska. The letter from
. Chaska states that they feel that the mini - storage should provide sewer and
water to the site and that they are not in total agreement that that is an
acceptable use for that area. The letter from LCR is commenting that the
reduced requirement for Gary Brown's mini - storage proposal versus what they
were required to provide for mini - storage in the Business Park.
Councilman Geving: How do they propose us getting sewer and water to that
site? It doesn't make much sense does it.
Mayor Hamilton: Maybe they would like to pay for it.
Councilman Geving: We're only about 10 miles from the nearest connection.
11 Don Ashworth: I think they have water and sewer that's relatively close. I
don't know if they are proposing. •
Councilman Geving: I didn't see an offer in here.
Councilman Johnson: Do you remember a previous, was it last Council meeting
the City of Chaska had a letter in our Administrative Section saying that they
couldn't extend it out to Merle Volk's property for sewer and water to that
point according to the Metropolitan Waste Control Commission. It should be
pretty much the same here if they say they can't go past the boundaries there.
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272
City Council Meeting - May 4, 1987
Jo Ann Olsen: The Planning Commission approved the Conditional Use Permit
with Staff's conditions and then they also added three conditions which is the '
applicant shall provide fire protection for each building and the site plan
shall be reviewed by someone knowledgable in fire protection. The applicant
•
shall provide four soil borings for City approval to determine if two
treatment sites are available and third, that everything stored on the site
must be stored within the buildings. Since the Planning Commission meeting,
Staff has met with the applicants twice and we have also had the plan
reviewed by our fire expert. As far as the septic system, the applicant has
suggested providing a holding tank and we've consulted our consultant, Roger
Machmeier, and he has stated that for a small use,' a holding tank would be
permissible on the site. Another issue was also the fencing and the fire
person we talked with stated that a chainlinked fence would be preferable for
safety protection. Steve Madding, who we spoke with about fire, also stated
that they wanted turn arounds on the site provided for the fire trucks. They
also wanted the walls of the buildings to be completed up to the ceiling so
there would be no attic area. They also recommended that the heat protector
be provided within the building. Finally, a second means of access is going
to be provided by one of the applicants who lives adjacent to the property. '
So essentially all the concerns have been met. The applicant has provided us
with a new plan. He has provided a turn around area for the fire trucks.
This is where the easement will be provided for the secondary emergency
access. We will be working for the detailed landscaping plan. Other than
that, the plan now meets what the Planning Commission's hesitation on the
conditional use permit. Staff is recommending that the City Council approve
the conditional use permit with the addition of submission of an emergency
access agreement and the installation of a 1,500 to 2,000 holding tank plus
installation of a one gallon toilet, a spring loaded faucet, a float alarm and
a man hole over the system if located underneath a driveway. 1
Mayor Hamilton: Gary, do you have any comments you would like to make?
Gary Brown: No. We've met everything that we've been asked to do. We would ,
like to pick up a permit tomorrow and build this thing. •
Councilman Johnson: On the prints here they have two signs noted. Right at
Stoughton and Th 212 there is the word sign and over by the storm water
detention area a big word sign. I see no mention of what is intended here.
Are you putting up signs here or is that just the County sign that's sitting
there?
Gary Brown: There is one by the berm area up front. There will be a sign
yes.
Councilman Johnson: And that's an off -site sign?
Gary Brown: Right. According to the way I understand it, we can put a sign ,
also on TH 212. We can have one on each highway. •
Councilman Johnson: Does the sign have to be on your property? 1
Barbara racy: Yes.
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City Council Meeting - May 4, 1987
1
Councilman Johnson: Is this on your property? The one up at the point of TH
' 212 and Stoughton? The one that's not supposed to be there. There is one by
your entrance and it says sign here and sign here. There is on sign down
here. That's a guy's frontyard.
Gary Brown: That's not ours. Our sign would be down by the entrance and be
on our property.
Jo Ann Olsen: The signs will have to go through the sign permit process.
Councilman Johnson: I went down and looked at the site. I do agree with
Chaska, this is the entrance to their City and I have nothing on here showing
me what you want to propose as far as an elevation. Give me an idea of what
we're looking at here. All I see is roofs. I can go from the worse to the
best and I have no idea what I'm going to see here.
Gary Brown: Grading will stay approximatey where it is. There is very little
grading.
Councilman Johnson: I mean construction of the building.
Gary Brown: One story.
Councilman Johnson: I would like to see an architectural. design of it to see
what this is going to look like.
Gary Brown: You have that here.
Councilman Johnson: We have that?
Mayor Hamilton: Did you want Gary to explain how high it is or are you going
to keep him from answering?
Gary Brown: There are 7 foot poles so that means you have about 15 feet to
the peak of the ceiling. 29 gauge metal. The same thing that pole barns and
machinery sheds and that stuff.
Councilman Johnson: I'm very concerning on painting, the looks and whatever
of this.
. Gary Brown: So are we and that's why we're going with colored metal.
Y 9 9 Blac k
buildings always bleed through and you are forever painting it. If you get
colorclad metal, it's on there and it stays on there.
Mayor Hamilton: Do you have a copy of the elevations there Jo Ann?
r Jo Ann Olsen:, Yes.
Councilman Johnson: It's more a structural drawning than anything else.
Councilman Horn: What Jay's asking for, isn't that something we typically
YP Y
require. It seems like we review this type of a drawing.
1
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City Council Meeting - May 4, 1987
Councilman Johnson: Generall Last Ia t year they went to great expense for rock
face and everything else that the downtown wanted. I just went over to Eden
Prairie and looked at one over at Eden Prairie today and it's the same. Nice
looking brick and everything. I'm concerned...
Gary Brown: You've got to remember we're building between Gedney Pickles and
the dump.
Mayor Hamilton: Yes, just keep in mind where they are proposing this site to
be. The one that was proposed for the Industrial Park was a totally different
baligame. It was in a different area completely.
Councilman Johnson: The City of Chaska seems to be concerned about it too. 1
Mayor Hamilton: Maybe Chaska ought to tend to their own business.
Councilman Johnson: Just because the City of Chaska on the other side of the 1
railroad tracks is dumpy is no reason for us to...I don't think Gary is
putting anything up dumpy, I just don't know what he's putting up yet. What's
your color scheme? 1
Gary Brown: Earth tones. We went through the color schemes and everything
with Staff. '
Councilman Johnson: Staff, did you have any comments on color scheme,
whatever?
Jo Ann Olsen: Earth tones.
Councilman Johnson: Why concrete curb and gutter? I saw some of the folks on
the Planning Commission had trouble with this. I think Gary was saying that
they want concrete curb and gutter in here on some areas. I'm not totally
sure where you-are looking for it and how many feet you're talking about. Why
are we asking for this?
Gary Brown: Since that time we have come to the agreement that it's going to
be rolled asphalt around the outside. It's going to be field all the way
around this thing.
Barbara Dacy: If I can clarify. We had agreed that you would construct a 4
: to 7 ton paved surface but our recommendation still stands as to the perimeter
of the site which is going to be concrete curb.
Councilman Johnson: What perimeter are you taking about? 11
Gary Warren: The exterior perimeter of the parking. Not internal curbs
around buildings. Outside the parking area. 1
Councilman Johnson: That looks like a whole lot of linear feet of curb and
gutter. 1
Gary Brown: You're right.
20 1
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City Council Meeting - May 4, 1987
Gary Warren: To be consistent with the Ordinance and also trying to control
drainage off the site somewhat that the curbing is ...
Councilman Johnson: It certainly will last longer. There is one storage area
up in Roseville where the back of the storage areas people operate businesses
out of. I want to make sure that we are not going to allow that here. That
has happened in the past in other locations.
Gary Brown: There's not even electricity inside the buildings.
Barbara Dacy: It's not allowed_by the Ordinance.
Councilman Johnson: Have any neighbors had any comments since this?
Mayor Hamilton: The neighbors are Gary Dungee and one other person.
Councilman Johnson: I went out and looked at it, like I said, and most of the
neighbors have their own shielding as far as the opaqing of the fences. It
would just be the traffic out on TH 212 driving by that would have the view.
I guess I don't have a lot of problems with the opaqing since the neighbors in
the area are pretty well sheilded by their own shurbery and fences. You said
your partner in on this is one of the neighbors?
Gary Brown: Yes. He lives right next door.
Councilman Geving: I think one item we should have included here on page 6 is
item 11. We talked about the chainlinked fence all the way through this but
didn't include it as one of the conditions so I would like to include that as
number 11. To add the chainlinked fence of 6 feet that wraps around the
entire storage facility. I'm very much in favor of this project and I'll tell
you why. When we did.the zoning designation for this particular area of TH
11 212, we designed it for business fringe and businesses such as yours was
really what we ha6 ;.n mind. Open storage areas, I really wish we could have
put Roman Roos' building down there. It would have made it a lot easier but
this is what I had in mind when we put this together. I had a couple
questions on this detention basin. It's listed as item 4 in there. I didn't
see any plans of that going to be done. Could you explain that Barb where
that detention basin is going to be placed?
Jo Ann Olsen: It shows on the plan. The huge area on the north here.
Councilman Geving: It's kind of natural low area there anyway.
Gary Brown: It's a natural swale down in there now which we are doing a study
I on it through the engineers.
Councilman Geving: Were is this landscaped area that's going to be sodded?
Gary Brown: The front berm area. Right along Stoughton Avenue there and then
the berm along the other side there will be seeded.
Councilman Geving: I have no comments. I'm very much in favor of the
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City Council Meeting - May 4, 1987
project. It's an improvement to the area and I really don't case what Chaska
. has to say about the sewer and water and other comments. II!
Councilman Horn: I don't have any comments.
Mayor Hamilton: I don't either. I think it's a good project. It's the type 11
of project we wanted in that area as Dale has said. I'm not sure why there
has been so much trouble with this project. I feel bad about that. I really
do because it's a very straight forward project and an awful lot of screwing
around for a cold storage facility but I'm glad to see were to the point
where it can be approved and get on with building it and get some storage
accomplished. Any other questions?
Mayor Hamilton moved, Councilman Horn seconded to approve the Conditional Use
Permit #87 -2 subject to the site plan stamped "Received April 30, 1987" and
the following conditions:
1. One tree for every 40 feet be provided along the berm between the
vehicular area and right -of -way and the berm must be two feet high.
2. A description of the plantings proposed meet the minimum standards of
six feet high (evergreens) and two inch caliper (deciduous). 1
3. The landscaped areas must be sod or seeded.
4. A detention basin should be included in the site drainage plan and be
designed to limit the on -site run -off to the pre - development rate for
a 100 year storm event.
5. If possible, align Stoughton Avenue site access with driveway access
on the south side of Stoughton Avenue.
6. Parking areas and access drives shall be paved with a dust free, all 1
weather surface built to a 4 to 7 ton capacity.
7. Concrete curb and gutter will be required only along the outer edge 1
of the perimeter drive around the site.
8. No outside storage is permitted. . II
9. Submission of an emergency access easement agreement.
10. Installation of a 1,500 to 2,000 holding tank, plus installation of a 1
one gallon toilet, a spring loaded faucet, a float alarm, and a man
hole over the system if located underneath a driveway.
11. Chainlinked fencing at 6 feet high be around the perimeter of'the
storage area.
All voted in favor and motion carried.
1
22
•
I
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 6, 1991
Chairman Emmings called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m
MEMBERS PRESENT: Ladd Conrad, Steve Emmings, Brian Batzli, Jeff Farmakes
and Joan Ahrens
MEMBERS ABSENT: Tim Erhart and Annette Ellson
STAFF PRESENT: Jo Ann Olsen, Senior Planner and Kate Aanenson, Planner II
PUBLIC HEARING:
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AMENDMENT FOR PROGRESS VALLEY STORAGE ON PROPERTY
ZONED BF, FRINGE BUSINESS AND LOCATED AT 1900 STOUGHTON AVENUE, GARY BROWN
AND GARY DUNGEY.
Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report. Chairman Emmings called the
public hearing to order.
Gary Brown: I'm Gary Brown. I represent Progress Valley. To address the
U -Haul situation. That's what we rent is U -Haul trucks down there
primarily. Once in a while there's-a couple trailers come in, stragglers
and we try to get rid of those right away because we have gross down there
and we don't like hooking them up so that's pretty incidental. But I
think, I know as far as that goes, that's a lot better place to that those
U -Haul trucks I believe sitting down there with very minimal visibility
than they are sitting over here in the middle of town I think. And as far
as, I read through the staff report and stuff on this and they're
II recommending that we put in some evergreens along the southwest corner and
we don't have any problem with that. It will make it look a lot prettier.
And as far as a gravel base goes underneath where we're going to park these
things, we don't have any problem with that. We can handle that. And
people do need a place to park their big boats and motorhomes and such like
that because I think it looks better parking them down there in the field
than it does parking them all over the city.
Emmings: Can I ask you, what kind of stuff is being stored outside? I'm
not talking about the trucks right now but just what kind of outside
storage was there?
Gary Brown: There's I believe 2 or 3 motorhomes there and a couple of
boats and I believe one construction trailer.
11 Emmings: Okay. And if on the map that we've got here of your.
11 Gary Brown: If we put it in that back corner over there, the only person
that's really going to have to see it is a person who•lives right next to
the storage center who happens to be my partner who's here, Gary Dungey. •
Emmings: Okay, so the outside storage you're proposing is the area that's
in the box on that?
Gary Brown: Correct.
1
Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 2
Emmings: Then as far as where you keep the trucks and other things that '
you rent out, where are those kept?
Gary Brown: We've been keeping them so to speak in the backyard right now. 11
Behind the building.
Emmings: Well, where on the map though? 1
Gary Brown: Right about over in this area over in here. Where this open
land is right in here. So that is visible by 212. If we put them back
over in this corner, that would be.
Emmings: Be less so.
Gary Brown: That would be less visible if that's what you want to see. 11
Emmings: Now I noticed that the original approval required trees every 40 11
feet and a berm. Was that done?
Olsen: They do have the landscaping in.
Emmings: That was required by the original, okay.
Olsen: They just don't have the concrete curb. 1
Emmings: Okay. Is there anything else you'd like us to take into
consideration here? 1
Gary Brown: No. I think you guys are doing a great job.
Conrad: Oh sure Gary. 1
Gary Brown: You don't believe that Ladd?
Emmings: At least we're doing okay so far. 1
Gary Brown: So far tonight we're doing great.
Emmings: Okay, thanks. Anybody else that would like to say anything about
this application? If not, is there a motion to close the public hearing?
Batzli moved, Conrad seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in
favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed.
Emmings: Let me understand. I have some trouble understanding the 1
conditions listed on page 5. Are you proposing that we adopt?
Olsen: No. What happened is you didn't get the, those are. 1
Emmings: They don't look like conditions.
Olsen: Right. Those are the 12, those aren't conditions. 1
Emmings: These are criteria?
11
1
Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 3
11 Olsen: Those are the 12 criteria that, those are the answers to each one.
It looks like the criteria itself did not get in. Vicki did not get those
in.
Batzli: These are the answers to the questions.
Olsen: Those are the answers to the criteria.
Conrad: Ah, now you come up with the questions.
Emmings: Okay. So we read the answers and make up the questions.
Batzli: We'll play Jeopardy.
Olsen: They're in the ordinance. I apologize. I didn't notice that.
Emmings: Okay, so the recommendations are over here. Now in the
recommendations you're talking about evergreens in the southwest corner.
Where's the southwest corner? Which way is north on our map?
Olsen: This is north.
Emmings: So you want screening where?
Olsen: In this area. It is close to the residents. I know that's the
applicants that live there but when you drive down Stoughton Avenue, it's
very visible in here to where the storage is and there are residents all
along here. So it's an area to try and screen.
Emmings: So are you figuring, you're putting the screening there because
you assume he'll be parking the trucks in that corner? Where that box is?
Olsen: Right. That's where they're proposing to keep the outside storage
11 and the U- Hauls.
Emmings: Oh okay. I see condition 2 you've got, okay. Let's see what
comments we've got up here. Ladd.
Conrad: Outside storage we require. We require all outdoor storage to be
screened?
Olsen: Yes.
Conrad: Are there any exceptions?
Olsen: Not recently. The way it's stated in the ordinance, it's screened
outside storage.
•
Conrad: And it is screened not necessarily. You said we could adopt some
conditions of landscaping but right now our standards for screening is,
11 would these meet our current requirements for outside screening?
Olsen: No. It wouldn't be totally screened. Plus when you have
commercial adjacent to residential, there's supposed to be a 6 foot high
1
Planning Commission Meeting
is
November 6, 1991 - Page 4
opaque fence and that's not there either. 11
Conrad: And so under what rationale could we not set a precedent by
allowing this? In fact there's no residential, well.
Olsen: There is residential.
Conrad: Well, I don't want to put words. There are residential houses 1
there.
Olsen: What's been used in the past is the fact that it's been on 212 and II
it's in the BF district but that doesn't, I feel that it should still be
upheld.
Conrad: Truck and trailer rental. By screening this Jo Ann, are these
buildings there right now?
Olsen: No. 11
Conrad: They're not there so really we're right out in the open. So we'd 11
be putting up a fence in that area?
Olsen: No.
Emmings: No, that's fence isn't it?
Olsen: Yeah, this already. 1
•
Conrad: I'm talking about where we store.
Olsen: There won't be any fencing.
Gary Brown: Maybe I can help explain this. The whole project now is
fenced all the way around.
Olsen: With a chainlink fence.
Gary Brown: There's 7 acres here all completely fenced in. And we have II
trees.
Conrad: That's within it? 1
Gary Brown: This is within it, correct. This will remain. We've got 4
buildings up and full. The fifth slab is poured and we're waiting to put II
the building up now. The snow kind of slowed things up a little so what
we're really asking to do is until we get the next three buildings up,
which will be hopefully in the next 2 to 3 years, that will eliminate this
problem because then we won't have any room for outside storage.
Everything will be confined. So what 'we're trying to do is we're trying toll
supplement, we're trying to get some income in there to use that area to
help defray all the costs. We kind of got surprised with that new
watershed thing and some things like that that got very expensive on us. II
So by renting out some U -Haul trucks and things like that, we can defray
some of the costs. So I think what Jo Ann's proposed and correct me if I'm ,
1
11 Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 5
wrong is to put some more evergreens along here to screen that from the
residential area. Correct?
Olsen: Yeah.
Gary Brown: I don't want to throw a monkey wrench into this deal but the
one thing is, when we first planted all the trees down there, we put some 6
and 7 foot evergreens in. Like about a dozen of them and we lost every
one. We put 50 -3 footers in and we've never.lost one. We had the nursery
come down and it's such sandy soil down there that those big ones, they
can't get going in that soil. The guy told us we were kind of wasting our
money by putting those big ones in but now those other ones have been in
there 2 years and they're about this tall right now. I realize what we're
trying to do is screen it and I don't want to goof that thing up but I
think it's kind of futile to put in 6 and 7 foot evergreen trees when
they're not going to last. Like I say, I don't want to goof it up. I
agree whole heartedly with what staff recommends here. But I also want the
thing to look nice and I don't want to spend a lot of money on something
that isn't going to work. We bought a lot of trees from Conky Bros. and we
had so much trouble they came down and tested the soil and little ones will
II grow wonderful in this. Big ones, they won't. They won't grasp because of
.their size and because of the soil conditions. We have taken sand as far
down as you can dig. Does that answer the question on that?
11 Conrad: Yeah it does. So the outside screening doesn't count as
screening? The outside chainlink doesn't count as screening of this area?
Olsen: I wouldn't consider a chainlink screening.
Emmings: My recollection there Ladd is the Planning Commission said you
had to use, recommended opaque fencing around the entire site and then when
it went to City Council, that was changed from opaque to chainlink. Am
I right?
Olsen: Yes.
Gary Brown: It was changed for the reason of security and fire. If it's
all screened in, I mean people could be in there breaking into the units
and nobody would ever see it. And another thing is fire. A fire could be
going in there and until it got higher than the fence, nobody would know
what's going on. So everybody, the Fire Department, the Police Department
and everybody agreed that it was a lot better idea to do it this way. To
screen it at that time.
Conrad: Okay. In terms of the trailer truck rental. It is a permitted
use.
Olsen: It's a conditional use.
Conrad: It is a conditional use. And right now Gary you've got those, are
you dependent on TH 212 for visibility to promote it?
Gary Brown: It sure helps.
s. P
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1
Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 6
Conrad: Yeah. You know drive by's your best. 1
Gary Brown: Yeah. It's great advertising having a U -Haul truck sitting
along there where they can see it. '
Conrad: That's what you want. Staff's position is no. Try to give me a
synopsis. No because?
Olsen: We say no for the outside storage just because number one with the
use, the rental of the trailers were kind of on the fence with that one.
But that's where we added the conditions where we feel more comfortable
with it.
Conrad: A couple of things. Detrimental to the neighborhood. Will not be
hazardous or disturbing to existing or planned neighborhood uses. Will not
be detriment to... I'm not sure where I'm at on this one. If you think
about it in Chanhassen, Gary brought up an interesting point in downtown
where we have trailer rental. It's not my favorite site for it. It's got II
to be someplace. It should be someplace and I don't know how it works
here. But this should be a place where we can rent trailers in Chanhassen
so I have a tendency to want to make it work someplace, I just don't know 11
how it works down there and if we've got the right standards. It seems
like a logical place to put it but I don't know that I'm real comfortable
yet that we've got the right standards for that. Maybe we do. I guess I'd
like to hear somebody else talk about that from that perspective. It's not
that we shouldn't have trailer rental. Truck and trailer rental in Chan.
There are better places for it than on our main street. And is this a good
location and do we have, trailer rental should be visible. If you want to '
compare to a business person, that's a great way to promote it and we
don't need to not let that person promote it so the question is, is this
the right place and do we have the right standards to guard the
neighborhood? Maybe someone can persuade me one way or another. Right nowil
I don't know.
Gary Brown: We basically have two neighbors. We have Al Cohen who lives
right on the corner of 212 and Stoughton there and then Gary Dungey on the
other side.
Emmings: You haven't been asked yet. If he . asks you a question that's onel
thing. Otherwise.
Gary Brown: I thought he was asking a question. I'm sorry. 1
Conrad: Yeah, I was sort of addressing the Planning Commission.
Emmings: He's musing. Ladd's in one of his musing.. He's posing questions"
for us to answer.
Conrad: I'm trying to let them persuade me Gary but yeah, I know what you t
have for residents. Or very close. I guess my concern is I'd want to have
you visible there. I'd want it to be presented in the best possible way
and I'm concerned with 212 traffic. I'd want it to look good. As much as a
truck trailer place could look and what I don't know is that we've got, I
1
1
11 Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 7
don't know that we've set the standards to make that look good and maybe we
have. That's why I'm sort of saying to these folks...
Emmings: Jo Ann, we've got a mini - storage place up here on TH 5. Did we
make it a condition of their approval that they not do outside storage?
That's the only other one we've got in Chanhassen isn't it?
Olsen: Right. That one's totally screened. Totally opaque.
Emmings: Opaque fencing?
Olsen: Right. You can't see inside.
•
Emmings: Okay but there we said no outside storage that would protrude
above the opaque fencing?
Olsen: Correct.
Emmings: But did we say no outside storage?
11 Olsen: That I can't.
Emmings: I seem to remember there was not outside storage that you could
see above but the idea that we didn't want to see outside storage.
Olsen: Right.
' Emmings: Okay. And now wait, there's another one down at the end of TH 101
there and TH 212. Isn't there some kind of storage in there too?
Olsen: Mike Sorenson's?
Emmings: It's very small.
Olsen: Yes.
Emmings: Is that screened? There's not outside storage there?
Olsen: No. It used to be screened by trees. Now it's not screened.
Emmings: But is there outside storage allowed there?
Olsen: I believe there was not. I think that's been a pretty much
11 standard condition.
•
Emmings: Okay. Alright, Brian?
Batzli: Yes.
Emmings: Okay Jeff? It's your turn Brian.
Batzli: Well, I was trying to figure out here whether this wouldn't be
better handled as ,an interim use. Since we don't allow this under the
I/
Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 8
conditional use, what's the difference between us approving this as an
interim or conditional use? If we decide to approve the outside storage.
Olsen: What's the difference with the outside storage? '
Batzli: Yes. Would it make any difference to you or the City if we
approved it one way or another since it's not a permitted use under either '
one of those categories.
Olsen: Well I think you'd have to amend the ordinance to make outside
storage an interim use.
Batzli: And not as a conditional use?
Olsen: You could do it either way that you'd want. 11
Batzli: I'm just trying to ask. Would we have to amend the ordinance to
approve this as a conditional use? 1
Olsen: Outside storage, yes.
,Batzli: But you said in our thing here that if we decide to approve it, 1
we're just supposed to do it with certain conditions.
Olsen: As an amendment to the conditional use permit. You'd be removing 11
the condition that outside storage would not be permitted.
Batzli: But in addition to that we'd have to amend the ordinance to do it II
as a conditional use?
Olsen: No. 1
Batzli: Why not?
Olsen: I talked that over with Roger and no we don't because we can do it 11
as part of the conditional use. The original conditional use.
Batzli: I'm not tracking. It's not one of the uses 'allowed by the
ordinance under the conditional use. It's not allowed under interim use. II
Olsen: Right.
Batzli: Why can we do it under the conditional use?
Olsen: As a part of the mini - storage. As an accessory part of the
conditional use.
Batzli: It's not an allowed permitted accessory use. 1
Olsen: No it's not.
Batzli: What I would like to do, if we're going to look at this, is decide!'
whether or not we want to allow these outside storage as it applies to
anybody and not just this particular applicant if we're going to do this.
1
11 Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 9
11 And so I would, I don't know. I don't have enough information about
whether we want to allow other people to do that down in the BF district.
As far as the truck trailer rental, I think that's fine.
Emmings: Okay. And so I'm clear on what you just said. You're agreeing
basically with what the staff report said? It said no outside storage but
' the truck rental you think...
Batzli: Right but if we're going to allow outdoor storage, I may allow
that but then I want to change the ordinance to allow everybody to do it.
Emmings: Yeah, okay.
Conrad: Wait, wait. We don't allow outdoor storage period.
Batzli: Well it's defined in here but I don't know where it's used.
11 Conrad: I thought we did when it was screened but we don't.
Emmings: We do allow outside storage. That's not accurate because I can
think of lots of examples where we do. •
Conrad: But now I'm starting to question.
•
11 Emmings: But it's always been screened. We have the dock place over here
and they had to put up opaque fencing. We had the mini - storage. They had
to do opaque screening in order to have outside storage. Those are the
only two that come right to mind.
Olsen: All of the other business districts.
Emmings: Oh, right here off of the end of this street there was outside
storage of something. The little street that ends in a cul -de -sac right
off the end of Kerber.
Conrad: So is this particular to the BF district? Is this just particular
to the BF district?
11 Olsen: Yes. The only business district that doesn't have it is the BF
district.
Conrad: Okay.
Olsen: And I think the reason for that was when we did the BF district we
essentially took what was down there and there was an outside storage so.
Conrad: Yeah, yeah.
Emmings: Jeff.
Farmakes: On the completion of Phase 3. When you talked about the
completion of Phase 3 where you remove outside storage. Do you have a time
frame?
1
1
Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 10
Gary Brown: When we fill them all up Jeff. 1
Farmakes: Okay, so this is a progressive schedule: It's not a building
schedule but it's a progressive situation? 1
Gary Brown: Yeah.
Farmakes: So for instance the completion of Phase 3 may not occur for 10 I
years?
Gary Brown: Let's hope not but you're right. 1
Batzli: If I could interrupt. My proposal would be to look at allowing it
as an interim use and then saying you can do it for 2 or 3 years but then,"
that's right.
Farmakes: If at that point when you complete Phase 3, where would these
trucks go? 1
Gary Brown: We either have to find a different area for them or come back
in or we have to give them up. One or the other. 1
Farmakes: I would be somewhat concerned about this. I don't think that
makes sense that you'd want to store that I guess as a temporary use. What
concerns me is that's sort of an open ended time frame. If there was a
limit on there, give you a limit I could see that as being a sensible
compromise to the problem. The problem's not addressed though. I'm also
concerned, in seeing literature from Ryder and U -Haul, part of the
franchise suggestion in location of the signage that is on the trailers
themselves is to billboard it in such a way that it's seen from the highway
obviously and U- Haul's very large on the trailers purposedly so if you lin
them all up, they create a signage effect. Versus having one sign up ther
that says U -Haul here, you've got 40 or 50 lined up in a row say
potentially. And in some cases the trucks are quite tall. Big large
trailers. So you get outside of the storage issue and it actually becomes 11
potentially a signage situation. I think as a separate issue, maybe that's
something to deal with in a signage ordinance that we're looking at. Also
on these issues of what do we do with these outside trailer situations.
Suggestion anyway.
Gary Brown: If you let us put them back there where we want to, then you
wouldn't have this billboard effect. It would be nice if you'd let us put
one out there along 212. If you don't want us to put one along 212, that's
you guy's business. That's your priviledge but all we're asking is to keep
them and keep them back there in that corner where it isn't in anybody's II
way.
Farmakes: And I'm not listing that as what you're proposing. I'm just
saying potentially if you make a precedent for that, that somebody else may
not be trucks and trailers. It may be something else. But in an outside
storage situation, what is painted on the side of it or whatever the intent"
there is, I guess you still get sort of a visual... So I agree here that
that maybe a separate issue to look at and if there's a fixed time, maybe
1
Planning Commission Meeting
11 November 6, 1991 - Page 11
11 that'd be the best way to go. That you would eliminate the trailers out of
there...temporary.
11 Emmings: Joan. Well how about, sorry to interrupt you but you addressed
the truck thing. What about the outside storage?
Farmakes: I grouped that in there.
Emmings: Oh okay. So you wouldn't be opposed to allowing outside storage
either if it was under those same conditions?
11 Farmakes: On a temporary situation. I think based on what's already been
approved in here. That would be a reasonable sort of thing.
Emmings: Okay. Joan, go ahead.
Ahrens: As to the truck and trailer rental, the zoning ordinance
permits...I'm not familiar with the site.
Gary Brown: It's just east of Gednes Picles half a mile if you're
I familiar.
Ahrens: Right but I can't picture where that storage is or anything like
that...
Gary Brown: You know where Assumption Seminary is?
Ahrens: Yes.
Gary Brown: It's about .3/4 of a mile west of that.
Ahrens: I know the general area but 1 can't picture it.
Gary Brown: It's right on the corner there.
11 Ahrens: I think that we should be allowing truck and trailer rental...in
our ordinance to allow it. I'm not sure this is the place it should be but,
correct me if I'm wrong but truck and trailer rental was not part of this
original conditional use permit.
1 Olsen: Correct.
Ahrens: Was or was not?
Olsen: Was not.
Ahrens: So this is kind of, you started the rental business.
1 Gary Brown: Correct. We were naive in that we didn't know we needed a
special permit for that because of the fact that it's okay in that district
to do. You know it comes underneath your Statute.
Ahrens: Has there been any complaints from any residents?
Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 12
Olsen: No. No complaints. 1
Ahrens: Okay. I'm not opposed to the truck and trailer rental there. I
think that we have to be careful about screening... However, how many
houses are around...
Olsen: It's about 3 homes on the other side of Stoughton.
Gary Brown: How many houses are around the mini - storage?
Olsen: There's one on either side and then it's like 3 or 2 across the
street.
Ahrens: How many trucks and trailers do you have available for rental? 1
Gary Brown: At the high point I think we've had 15 trucks haven't we?
Gary Dungey: Average is probably 7. 1
Gary Brown: Average 7. Trailers, 1 or 2. Is there any there now?
Gary Dungey: No. 1
Ahrens: And they're all just mixed in with your other outside storage?
The boats and the construction trailer. It's all mixed in together?
Gary Brown: We try to keep it confined to one end. But you're right. No,
no, not really. The outside storage is over to one side and the U -Haul we I
keep on the other side because the U -Haul area we keep plowed out in the
winter. So they are pretty much segregated right now.
Ahrens: But you can see both the outside storage and the rental trucks 1
from the residential area?
Olsen: Yes. 1
Ahrens: And the outside storage, it was there when the City Council
approved just a chainlink fence around it? i
Olsen: No it was not.
Ahrens: But they knew that was. ,
Olsen: No. It was a specific condition that there be no outside storage. •
Ahrens: What was the purpose of Planning Commission asking for an opaque
fencing if there wasn't going to be any outside storage or anything out?
Olsen: Well the ordinance requires 6 foot high fences between residential 1
and commercial. And then just to screen the buildings.
Batzli: It has residential on 3 sides.
1
Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 13
1
Emmings: I think we thought the fence looked better than a collection of
buildings. Basically. It was kind of a hot item as I recall and I think
it kind of came down to aesthetics as I remember but that was a long time
1 ago.
Ahrens: It's hard for me to believe that even evergreens there are
actually going to do anything to screen the outside storage...really want
to try and screen it.
Batzli: In 20 years it will.
1 Ahrens: And I can understand that the purpose of your storage facility is
to store...I understand that and I don't have any problem with that but I
1 would like to see if we approve this that there be a limit, a time limit on
how long this outside storage can go on. I think that you may want to
forget about the landscaping, at least the 6 foot sized trees. I
1 understand his point there too. He wants to plant a smaller type of tree,
I'd go along with that. But I don't think that if we do recommend approval
of the outdoor storage, that we put a time limit of like 2 to 3 years. And
then you've got...
1 Emmings: I guess my feeling about this is that there shouldn't be outside
storage at that site. I don't think there should be outside storage at any
1 of these mini - storage facilities unless they're completely screened. But
as far as the kinds of things you're storing outside right now, I don't
really think, there's not that much of a difference between what you're
storing outside and the U -Haul trucks. I have no problem at all with the
1 truck rental thing. I think it fits in with what you're doing hand in
. glove and I don't have any problem with that at all. But I guess the
reason that I don't want to just, I don't want to step over that threshold
1 of outside storage even though storing a few boats and a few motorhomes
seems pretty much the same thing as having trucks sitting there, I don't
know what it's goirs,= to be next week. I don't know if it's going to be a
1 pile of tires or whG'_ the hell it's going to be but I think the whole idea
behind the mini - storage is, we're building spaces for people to store
things in in a neat fashion and I don't want to see stuff outside. So I'm
absolutely opposed to any outside storage. Like I say.
1 Batzli: Unscreened.
1 Emmings: Unscreened. If he wants to put up opaque fencing around that
corner so it can't be seen from anywhere, then as long as it doesn't stick
up above the fencing, I don't have a problem with it. Since we've done
that other places in town, I would say we could do it down there. Right
1 now I don't think our ordinance would allow him to have outside storage
period. So I think we'd have to change the ordinance first. 'I'd want to
know better why we don't have to change the ordinance before we allow it. •
1 The only other thing that would concern me about the truck rental I guess
would be the scale. I want to know something about, you know 15 trucks and
2 trailers doesn't bother me at all. In fact I wouldn't care if it was
more than that but if it's 150 or if they suddenly get to be real big
1 trucks, that's a totally different thing. And so I don't know how we could
set any limit on scale but can you give me some idea how big an operation
you see? How many vehicles maximum you'll be parking?
1
Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 14
Gary Brown: It's a type of business that you've never going to get very I
many of them there because they always have to be rented. They have to be
going somewhere.
Emmings: Yeah. If they're all sitting there you're in trouble. '
Gary Brown: That's right. If they're all sitting there, we're not going
to be renting any longer because U -Haul isn't going to want us as a dealer.'
I can see where you're coming from. Why don't you put a cap on it of 20
trucks and 4 trailers. I can live with that:
Emmings: Okay. 1
Gary Brown: And put a cap on it of, I'd like to ask for 4 years but
somebody said 3 years on a conditional use permit. That'd be great too.
Emmings: What's the biggest truck you rent?
Gary Brown: 26 foot.
Emmings: Okay. I guess if I was going to put caps on it I'd want to say
no trucks bigger than 26 feet and at any one time there wouldn't be more
than 20 trucks and 4 trailers. Timewise I don't see any reason to put a
limit. I don't have any interest in limiting the U -Haul. Because again I
think the business fits together. If you decide not to do it later, that's
fine. That's up to you. I don't see any reason on limiting that. I think
what they were talking about limiting was the outside storage and maybe to
limit because you're saying that once all the buildings are built you won't
be doing it anymore anyway. But since I'm opposed to outside storage
that's not an issue for me.
Conrad: But you're not opposed to outside storage that's screened? '
Emmings: I'm not opposed to outside storage if it's screened.
Conrad: Are you opposed to outside storage in the BF district?
Emmings: Yeah, we'd have to consider that. See that's why I think we've 1
got to look at the ordinance. We've got to look at the BF section of the
ordinance and decide if we're going to do that and I think we've got to do
that before we act on this if we want to approve it. If the majority of
people here want to do that, I think we've got to look at the ordinance
first.
Conrad: That makes a lot of sense. '
Emmings: So I guess, I don't know.
Conrad: It sure makes sense to me that this is the area where we do some 11
of these things. I just don't know that we have everything in place. I
don't want to set a precedent for bad stuff. I'm concerned a little bit.
This is, where Gary has his place, I like that area but it's, for this. II However, if he was to the east by the bluffs in our BF district, I don't
want it there so I've got a problem with this. It's great where you are I
1
' Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 15
think from our standpoint. I hope from Chaska's standpoint. Maybe not but
it's still some real logical things for these multi uses. But I just don't
know that we have everything in place to set the right direction for a
' recommendation right now. I guess I'd kind of like to table it until we
can have staff do some, a little bit more backgrounding now that they know
where we're coming from and maybe bring you back again Gary. It's probably
dealing more with the ordinance than with you. Just so we're not setting
' precedent for other folks. That's the wrong way to go.
Emmings: Well, do you want to make a motion?
Conrad: I move that we table this.
'Batzli: Second.
I
Emmings: It's been moved and seconded to table this. Is there any
discussion?
' Ahrens: We're going to table both?
Emmings: That's the motion.
Conrad: Yeah. I think a lot of interrelated things. Gary's in operation .
right now doing.
' Emmings: Well we recognize that he's doing both of these things right now
but there's not, nobody's going to go chase him around while we decide
this.
Gary Brown: Right now it's pretty well hidden because...snow.
' Farmakes: How does that affect what your plans are currently? The two
different issues.
Gary Brown: To do what?
Farmakes: Outside storage and the truck proposal that you have. The
delay.
Gary Brown: It doesn't make any difference.
Emmings: He's doing them both.
Ahrens: What are we going to ask the staff to do concerning the trucks
there?
•
Conrad: I don't know. I just want us to review the use o outside storage
in the BF district period and how can we make -it, how can we find outside
storage but screened.
Ahrens: I understand that part. I'm talking about the truck trailer
rental...an approved activity.
Emmings: Well isn't that outside, well yeah I see.
t
Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 16
Conrad: That's not outside storage. That's a retail service and I don't '
know how it works Gary. I don't understand it. Gary's got to put the
stuff inside the screen.
Batzli: It actually fits within the definition of outside storage though
too. Having your trucks parked there.
Ahrens: But our ordinance permits it. 1
Batzli: I know, which is interesting.
Ahrens: So why do we have to table that part?
Emmings: Because I think what, at least what I think Ladd is saying is ' I
that storing, you're putting these trucks out. Yes it's permitted, it's
like a retail use. It's a conditional use that's allowed in this area but
really what you're doing is storing a bunch of trucks outside and I think 1
Ladd wants to make sure that we've got proper conditions for this
conditional use before we just say okay, go ahead and we don't have any
conditions in place right now. We may want to screen somehow however, or 1
we may not.
Conrad: Or we may not.
Emmings: Yeah, exactly.
Conrad: And what staff wrote down here, there are no specific standards I
for truck trailer rental. General ones and it sort of seems strange that
we're going to put a fence around truck trailer rental. Well it's there. I
don't know.
Farmakes: There are other uses...of that elsewhere. Not in this area but
there are some other areas but basically it's used as a form of advertising
up front by the road in town here. In parking lot. Retail parking lot so I
it is, that kind of bothers me that there isn't anything at all on there
regarding...
Batzli: Well I think we can look at that under the general 12 conditions. II
Whether that's proper to allow them to park right next to the road and take
a 'look at that.
Farmakes: I didn't say it was improper. It's just where, it's sort of an II
open ended thing. It's a retail parking lot or out by the highway in a
developed area. What is the proper area... '
Emmings: Well I guess basically, it sounds like we need more time to get
our act together.
Gary Brown:, One comment I would like • to make is what Joan brought up here.II
Exactly what my feeling is is that we shouldn't be here even addressing the
U -Haul thing because that's permitted in this district. '
Emmings: No, it's a conditional use and what that means, right now you're
only allowed to do that once we say go ahead and do that, the truck rental 11
1
Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 17
' and you will have to do it under these conditions. It's not a permitted
use. It's allowed as a conditional use. That's different. Is that right?
' Olsen: Yes.
Emmings: Okay. Okay there are permitted uses. That means if something,
if it's just a permitted use in the district, it's something that you can
' do. Alright? Now that doesn't mean you don't have to get approvals on
aspects of it but still it's something that you can do without asking any
permission from the City. On a conditional use, you have to say I want to
do this and then the City says, yes you can do it but only if you do it
under these conditions. And that's the difference between a permitted and
conditional use and this is a conditional, allowed conditional use.
Gary Brown: Well why don't you write us and let us know. Alright, thanks
a lot.
Emmings: We've got a motion pending here. The motion is to table the
entire thing and take a look at the ordinance. Let's take a look at the
ordinance and this proposal together and get something decided at our next
I meeting. It's not that big a deal I think.
Conrad moved, Batzli seconded to table amending Conditional Use permit
#87 -2 and directing staff to review the ordinance regarding outside storage
in the BF district. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Ahrens: I'd be interested in Roger's explanation allowing that.
Olsen: We've done that before where we've had certain uses as part of the
. conditional use that we'.ve allowed. So we've done it before but I'll get
something in writing. _
' Emmings: Yeah, it seems real arbitrary because what's the sense of listing
what can be a conditional use. We might as well write down anything we
11 want.
Olsen: Right. I agree.
Emmings: I don't get that.
Farmakes: I don't understand the issue of outside storage. We've got the
rental thing up here in the parking lot across from the mall.
Batzli: Merlyn's?
Farmakes: Across from Merylyn's. Outside. There are motorcycles. There
are trailers out there and so on.
t Conrad: It's illegal.
Farmakes: That's what I'm saying. That's a retail parking lot so it seems
like an item that really needs to be.
Conrad: Nobody has enforced that issue right there.
' 1
Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 18 1
Farmakes: But if somebody came in here and wanted to put in 100. I think
in Savage they have a huge U -Haul situation by the freeway and they've got
100 maybe trucks lined up along the highway and it has a visual, not only
retail impact but a real environmental visual impact.
Ahrens: What's wrong with Merlyn's though,? It's a hardware store.
Farmakes: They have different rental items. Log splitters. Motorcycles. 1
Conrad: It's just terrible.
Ahrens: See I don't see any problem with that. '
Farmakes: I didn't say there was a problem with it. It's just that it's
parked out in a retail parking lot and parking space. It seems kind of an I
inconsistent use. What if they park a billboard sign?
Conrad: They could keep an RV out there. They could keep a boat out I
there. It just could be a collage of stuff. That's not what you want on
your main street. It's just not right. I don't think anybody's playing.
Ahrens: I don't think we know what we want.
1
Batzli: I think if you asked most of the residents, they all go there and
use the stuff and they like it there. Whether visually you like it is
secondary to the question to most of the people that frequent downtown
Chanhassen.
Conrad: They like to see cement mixers on main street? '
Batzli: I don't think they care.
Ahrens: I don't think it bothers anybody. I've heard anybody outside of I
the Planning Commission say that offends them.
Conrad: Ah, I have. My neighbors have said that.
Farmakes: I think the other problem of what is permitted use. If I come
in here and you refuse me one thing and I can point that out across the
street, what is the.
Conrad: Well I'd kind of like the Dinner Theatre to store their props out I
on West 78th Street too. You know it's not just a few things. A few
things don't bother me and I think that's why nobody has really pushed
that. But I think if everybody did that, then we've got a problem. '
Emmings: Are there regulations on outside storage in the downtown business
district?
Batzli: It's not allowed.
Emmings: It's absolutely not allowed? 1
Olsen: The CBD. Yeah.
1
Planning Commission Meeting
November 6, 1991 - Page 19
' Aanenson: And the industrial areas. Because people would have trailers,
construction trailers that's supposed to be screened too.
' Emmings: Okay. That's a sensible rule too. Let's go onto agenda item 2.
We can take this up again when we look at outside storage for Gary Brown.
PUBLIC HEARING:
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT CONCERNING MOORING OF WATERCRAFT.
Public Present:
1 Name Address
' Bernie Schneider 7501 West 77th Street
Emmings: I think this is pretty self explanatory. It is a public hearing.
Olsen: Yeah, they're here for that.
Emmings: Okay. Did you want to be heard on this item?
Olsen: Maybe I should explain what it is.
Emmings: Yeah, go ahead Jo Ann.
Olsen: I think he's somewhat familiar with this but what you'll be doing
is amending the recreational beachlot ordinance to add the following: No
watercraft shall be moored, docked or stored in the dock setback zone in
such a way that the watercraft or any part thereof extends across the
extended side lot lines of any lakeshore site. This is to prevent boats
from being docked in front of somebody else's lakeshore property.
Emmings: Well there's a little more to this isn't there Jo Ann?
' Olsen: That amends a different chapter that you don't deal with. That's
amending Chapter 6.
Emmings: Well who's going to be looking at that?
Olsen: The City Council will be doing that one.
1 Emmings: Okay. So we're only looking at.
Olsen: You're only looking at the zoning chapter.
Emmings: And this other part will go in front of the has that already
been passed by the City Council?
Olsen: No. It has not.
Emmings: When will that be heard by them?
Olsen: In the next meeting in November. Or December.
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CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 15, 1992
Chairman Emmings called the meeting to order at 7:40 p.m..
MEMBERS PRESENT: Ladd Conrad, Steve Emmings, Jeff Farmakes, Joan Ahrens
and Matt Ledvina
MEMBERS ABSENT: Tim Erhart and Brian Batzli
STAFF PRESENT: Paul Krauss, Planning Director; Jo Ann Olsen, Senior
Planner; and Kate Aanenson, Planner II
Emmings: We're going to save item number one until the end of the meeting.
Those are all basically organizational items and we'll get right onto the
public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING:
' ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT AND INTERIM USE PERMIT FOR SCREENED OUTSIDE
STORAGE ON PROPERTY ZONED BF, FRINGE BUSINESS DISTRICT FOR PROGRESS VALLEY
STORAGE, LOCATED AT 1900 STOUGHTON AVENUE, GARY BROWN AND GARY DUNGEY.
' JoAnn Olsen presented the staff report on this item. Chairman Emmings
called the public hearing to order.
Emmings: Gary, do you have anything to add?
Gary Brown: No. That's fine. If we go with outside storage, you want it
screened? Is that correct? If we do not go with the outside storage, the
same with the truck rentals, do you still want the screening?
Olsen: We're just asking for the additional landscaping. There is no
specific requirement for, as part of the conditional use permit for truck
and trailer rental, there's no specific requirement that it has to be
completely screened. We are asking for additional screening from the
residential for the truck and trailer rental and complete screening for any
other outdoor storage.
Gary Brown: Now, the only question I guess I would ask then is, are you
going to make the parking lot owner across the street here, the hardware
store, are you going to make him screen that all the way around?
Emmings: We're not looking at that. We don't have to answer that. Here,
Gary I've got one question for you.
Gary Brown: Sure.
Emmings: Last time you were here you mentioned to me that as far as the
truck and trailer rental goes, that you could live with a limit on the
number of trucks and trailers. 20 trucks, 4 trailers and no trucks over 26
feet or something like that.
Gary Brown: I've got no problem with that at all Steve.
r
1
Planning Commission Meeting
January 15, 1992 - Page 2
Emmings: Okay, that didn't get in here - and I guess I'll just throw it out
for consideration. If some people think there ought to be a limit and the ,
other thing is if your business expanded and you wanted those limits
changed, we could look at it again. But anyway, okay. The reason I'm not
going to have the staff address the parking lot across the street. That's I
not your property and we're here tonight to talk about your property. I
think we all know there's something going on in that parking lot that's not
allowed by ordinance. That doesn't mean we should allow that to happen
someplace else. So that's the short answer to that and we're not going to
talk about it anymore.
Gary Brown: That's fine. '
Emmings: Okay. Anything else?
Gary Brown: The only other thing I'd like to ask is, on number 3 here it
says that we shall have a letter of credit to be submitted to cover the
cost of material installation for a year. Does that mean you're going to I
want to hold that letter for a year? Okay. And how much do you ask for
that?
•
Olsen: 11O% of the cost. That's typical for what we do with any site
improvement.
Gary Brown: Okay. I don't think I've got any problem with that. '
Emmings: Okay. So as far as the conditions go on all three of these
items, it's okay with you? Is that right?
1
Gary Brown: Yeah...
Emmings: Alright. This is a public hearing. Is there anybody else here I
that wants to address any of these issues? Is there a motion to close the
public hearing?
Conrad moved, Ahrens seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in
favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed.
Ahrens: In practical terms, does it really make that much of a difference 1
if these, the screening requirement. If he's going to have 20 trucks.
What did we talk about? 20 trucks, 4 trailers.
Emmings: Maximum yeah.
Ahrens: If that's visible to the outside neighborhood and from the street,"
is that any different from having other kinds of storage visible from the
street really? Are we nitpicking here or is this a significant difference?
Olsen: We discussed the last time that the truck and trailer, those are II
actually outdoor storage and how do we treat that. The way that we looked
at it was that the ordinance specifically designates truck and trailer
rental as a conditional use permit and doesn't require that it has to be II
completely screened. That other miscellaneous outside storage does and
that's just to be consistent with what we do throughout the other
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1 Planning Commission Meeting
January 15, 1992 - Page 3
districts. It's a difficult one yeah because...naturally screened.
Ahrens: We're just trying to fit this into our current ordinances?
1 Olsen: Trying to be consistent as best possible.
Ahrens: But in practical terms it really didn't make much of a difference.
1 I remember when we went through this last fall. I guess I don't have any,
I'm going to go along with the staff recommendation on this. I think that
the request is reasonable and the conditions are reasonable.
Emmings: Okay, Jeff.
' Farmakes: I'm going to go along with staff on this. I think we've
discussed it enough.
Emmings: Do you want to get your feet wet?
1 Ledvina: Sure. I had a question as to the Phase III. It says here that
the outdoor storage will be removed when Phase III is completed. Is there
1 a time line for that?
Gary Brown: When we need to put Phase III in. I'm hoping in the next 2
1 years. We're just constructing our fifth building down there right now so
there's room for 3 more buildings. And if things keep going good, yeah...
next few years will build out.
' Ledvina: Okay. Otherwise it looks reasonable.
- Emmings: Alright, Ladd.
Conrad: Everybody's so brief. That's just terrific. My intent at the
last meeting was to challenge staff and say what does outdoor truck rental
look like. And as I read my Minutes, I couldn't tell what I said. But I'm
1 still, truck rental and trailer rental is something that you have outdoors
and people pass it and it sort of stimulates that's where it is. I guess I
kind of thought we were going to look at that to decide if we had the right
1 parameters for truck and trailer rental in terms of our ordinance. And
based on what the staff report came back and said is, we don't have any
guidelines and therefore we're going to, we don't have any guidelines right
now. My point last time we talked about this was, should there be? Are we
trying to screen truck and trailer rental and I never thought it should be
personally but we didn't have a reaction from staff on those points and I
don't know if we all thought about it but my posture was that if there's a
place in Chanhassen for this kind of operation, it's down where Gary has
his operation. A specific question that I couldn't tell based from the
staff report, and JoAnn maybe you can tell me, you've got the truck and
1 trailer rental screened in the southwest corner and that is from a
neighborhood standpoint?
•
Olsen: From the residences.
Conrad: So I guess the question that I pose to the Commission is, that's
sort of a token type of thing and I don't know how much, that's not a
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Planning Commission Meeting
January 15, 1992 - Page 4 ti 1
significant screening effort is it? What's your perception of what that
would take? I
Olsen: To screen it?
Conrad: To screen it on the southwest corner. We're talking evergreens
over 6 feet and we're talking 10 evergreens or any idea JoAnn?
Olsen: There's some existing landscaping there now. We just wanted them 1
to add to it. It is going to take the evergreens. My intent I don't know
that we could possibly have it totally screened, even from the residential
side. The way it's located and the fact that it's the middle of a large'
open site and the site has just the chainlinked fence at this time. So the
existing conditions really kind of limit how far we can go. •
Conrad: So we screened it to a degree from the one or two neighbors. There'
aren't many neighbors down there. Residences but still, and then one
happens to be one of the owners. '
Gary Brown: I was going to say. The part that we're screening is where my
partner lives.
Conrad: He could sell his house.
Gary Brown: I guess now that we talked about this, it kind of refreshes my'
memory too. I would like to ask one thing. When we planted all the
evergreens the first time, we planted I don't know a dozen or 15 six
footers which we were able to save one out of all. We planted 50 or 60 -3 11
footers and we never lost one.
Emmings: What year?
Gary Brown: We put them in 1987.
Emmings: So that was the dry years, '87 and '88 that you had the problems ?"
Gary Brown: Yeah, we replanted a couple of the 6 footers the following
year. We couldn't keep enough water for them because it's all sand down ,
there.
Emmings: Yeah. We talked about that last time you were here.
Gary Brown: Yeah. We'll do our best to make them grow but we could have all
little problem there making those 6 footers.
Ahrens: I think we should be more flexible. '
Emmings: Yeah.
Gary Brown: 3 footers I know we can make grow.
Emmings: Well and this doesn't s It specifies that you have to
have a landscaping plan that's acceptable and I guess if you make that
point at the time you make your landscaping plan, I think people will be
' Planning Commission Meeting
January 15, 1992 - Page 5
reasonable about that. If you had luck with that soil with 3 footers and
not 6 footers, it's kind of dumb to have you plant 6 footers. But anyway,
go ahead Ladd.
' Conrad: Is our posture in the city that if you have a truck rental or
trailer rental operation, that it should be screened? Is that what we're
going to do with a car lot? We'll screen the cars? When a new dealership
comes into town, same thing. They're selling cars. Primarily they're
going to be inside, if there is one coming in. I don't really know if
that's happening anymore. Same operation. T guess it's a little bit
dissimilar but is our posture to screen?
Emmings: Isn't it to screen to the extent necessary depending on the site?
Isn't that what we're doing here? That's what I thought.
Conrad: I think the policy to screen from the neighborhood is just
absolutely right on. Even though it's one of the owners, I think if we do
' a little bit of screening, I think that makes a lot of sense. My question
is, right now in general, and it doesn't really pertain specifically.
Well, in general what's our philosophy on screening truck and trailer
rentals? The ordinance says screen them all the way.around.
Emmings: No it doesn't.
Olsen: That's outdoor.
Conrad: Well you classified this as outdoor storage though.
Emmings: No. No we're not.
' Ahrens: No. That's what I don't understand.
Emmings: I think what we're saying here is this is more like a retail
service.
Conrad: Right. It should be.
Emmings: It's not like, even though you're storing big items, this is not
outdoor storage. It's a retail service and since it's a conditional use,
we're always going to have an opportunity to look at it and screen it to
the extent that's necessary depending on the site. That's the way I'm
' looking at it. Now I don't know if that makes sense. It's a pretty fine
line between a truck as some kind of retail service.
Conrad: But wouldn't you want to have an ordinance that would tell you how
to treat truck and trailer rental in terms of.
' Farmakes: How's it any different than a new car parking lot? New car lot.
Conrad: Jeff, yeah. I don't know.
Emmings: Here's the thing though. If we've got, if we know there's going
to be some screening associated with these when they come in as a
conditional use. Now we're back to our old.argument that we get into every
1
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Planning Commission Meeting
January 15, 1992 - Page 6 1
time. Some people want things very specific and itemized in the Statute 1
and some of us like them very vague so we can deal with the problem that
arises. I always tend to like the vague better -. That's why I want a
principle. Principle is, if you're going to have this kind of retail
service and we're not going to call it outdoor storage and not make you
completely screen it, then I want to have the ability to tell you how much
you've got to screen it depending on the site.
Conrad: So you don't like standards associated with truck and trailer 1
rental?
Emmings: Yeah. 1
Conrad:' There are no standards?
Emmings: The standard is, it's a conditional use and it's going to be
screened to some extent but the extent will depend on the site. That's the
way I like it. If you've got residential all around you, well you're
probably not going to be able to have it at all but if you did across the
road or whatever, we might want to screen that completely, at least on 3
sides. But I think down where Gary is, it just doesn,'t matter that much. I,
think it's a good idea to beef up the screening a little bit. Just on
- general principles but I don't think you have to do anymore than that.
Conrad: I think the staff report for this particular application is
acceptable.
Emmings: Are you afraid it's going to limit us in the future? 1
Conrad: It's just sort of willy nilly.
Emmings: Maybe it's site dependent. 1
Conrad: I don't know. Why? Retail stores are not, they have standards
for retail, commercial. Here's another application for a retail use.
Emmings: Where else can we have truck and trailer rental?
Olsen: I think it's just the BF. 1
Emmings: BF.
Paul Krauss: It also must be the BG. In fact Market Square, when they go
over, they're going to be bringing their rental but it's conditioned in the
PUD agreement that it be in a masonry enclosure behind the building. 1
Emmings: What?
•
Paul Krauss: The rental business. • 1
Conrad: So we have no ordinance, no standards that might govern something
that's happening down the block? 1
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Planning Commission Meeting
January 15, 1992 - Page 7
Paul Krauss: If I could interject something. I think Comissioner Ladd has
a point. We have a number of conditional use permits that ideally when you
review a conditional use permit, you want to review it against some kind of
' coherent standard and then when you flip the ordinance to refer to a
standard it's blank. And you just have the mom and apple pie stuff and the
general guidelines to go by. All the conditional use permits that we've,
we haven't done that many but the IUP's and CUP's that we've done over the
last couple of years have very specific standards attached to them. That
would be my preference in the future. Yes, we do exercise control in the
site plan too. We sure do.
1 Emmings: If you could write a standard for a truck and trailer rental
service dealing with screening, what would you say?
Conrad: Generally they could be very ugly and generally.
Emmings: Screen as appropriate depending on the site and can't we do that
now?
Conrad: I don't know.
' Ahrens: Isn't that what it is now?
Conrad: Yeah.
Emmings: I'm comfortable with that but I don't think you are. But I don't
know how else you'd say it.
Ahrns: We either have to go with total screening.
' Conrad: You could have 'different landscaping requirements. You can have
minimums. You know you're talking about minimums and maximums or how many
trucks that could be parked in one spot. I think there are some things
that might be different than we're used to. I guess what I'd like to do,
again I think what the staff has designed here Gary is probably appropriate
for your facility. I don't think it's detrimental to your operation
financially as I looked at it. I think it's probably some common sense
' stuff so I think to get off the dying here, I think what I'd like to do or
I agree with the staff report but I would like to have the Planning
Commission spend a few seconds one night discussing whether we should take
a look at any kind of guidelines for truck and trailer rental later on.
Emmings: Why don't we just do that.
' Krauss: Add it to the list?
Emmings: Yeah. I think we should. If it causes us to talk about it this
much, than it's worth talking about it and getting it settled.
Conrad: Everybody else was so brief, I had to.
11 Emmings: I don't have anything more to add. I would like, under the truck
and trailer rental thing, to put down a fourth condition. That there will
be no more than 20 trucks or 4 trailers and no trucks exceeding 26 feet as
•
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Planning Commission Meeting
January 15, 1992 - Page 8
a condition of that approval. Otherwise I don't have anything else. '
•
Conrad: And you like that because why? Just because if the operation
expanded you'd like to take another look at it? ,
Emmings: Yeah. And we might want to do more screening then. If it's
going to be bigger. Size changes the character of things to me. This is
something kind of new to me and I feel more comfortable having some kind of
a limit. I don't even know if it's a reasonable limit but it's not going
to cramp his style, it gives us some kind of a limit so it doesn't become
trucks from one end to the other. Alright, is there any more discussion on
this? If not, is there a motion?
Ahrens: I'll move that the Planning Commission recommend approval of
Conditional Use Permit #87-2 for the rental of trucks and trailers with the
conditions listed in the staff report plus a condition number 4 limiting
the trucks to 20 and trailers to 4 and that no trucks be larger than 26
feet. Is that what you said Steve? '
Emmings: Yeah. I'll second it. Is there any discussion on this one?
Conrad: Joan, you mentioned you didn't like the 6 foot high evergreens. 1
You're leaving that in?
Ahrens: Well it says a landscaping plan acceptable to the Planning ,
Commission. I assume that you're not going to hold him to the 6 feet?
Olsen: It's still in condition number 1 but we should...
Ahrens: Oh I see. Yeah, I'd go along with taking that out. Do you want
to just say a landscape'screen with evergreens? Okay, anything else on
this?
Ahrens moved, Emmings seconded that the Planning Commission recommend
approval of Conditional Use Permit #87 -2 for the rental of trucks and 1
trailers with the following conditions:
1. The applicant shall provide a landscaped screen with evergreens along
the fence line at the southwest corner of the site.
2. The storage of the trucks and trailers shall be confined to the area ail
shown on the site plan and the area shall have a gravel surface.
3. The applicant shall provide a landscaping plan acceptable to the
Planning Commission and a letter of credit shall be submitted to cover
the cost of material installation and one year warranty.
4. There shall be no more than 20 trucks and 4 trailers and no trucks can
exceed 26 feet in length.
•
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Emmings: We'll go onto the Zoning Ordinance Amendment. Is there a motion?
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1
1 Planning Commission Meeting
January 15, 1992 - Page 9
Ahrens: I'll move that the Planning Commission recommend the approval of
Zoning Ordinance Amendment #92 -1 to add Article XX, BF, Fringe Business
District, the following to Section 2(-775, Interim Uses as it reads in the
1 staff report.
Conrad: I'll second that.
1 Emmings: Okay. Also under that on Joan there's an amendment to Division
4. You're moving for everything that's in the staff report there under
that recommendation?
1 Ahrens: As Steve says.
1 Emmings: Well I'll second that.
Ahrens moved, Conrad seconded that the Planning Commission recommend
approval of Zoning Ordinance Amendment #92 -1 to add Article XX, BF, Fringe
1 Business District, the following to Section 20 -775, Interim Uses:
(3) Screened outdoor storage.
.Amend Division 4, Standards for Business, Office, Institutional and
Industrial Districts by adding the following:
1 Section 20 -294. Screened outdoor storage.
The following applies to screened outdoor storage:
1 •(1) All outdoor storage must be completely screened with 100% opaque
fence or landscaped screen.
1 All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Emmings: One more item here and that's the Interim Use Permit for screened
1 outdoor storage. Is there a motion?
Conrad: I move the Planning Commission recommend approval of the Interim
1 Use Permit #92 -1 to permit outdoor storage with the conditions as listed on
the staff report.
1 Emmings: I'll second it. Any discussion?
Conrad moved, Emmings seconded that the Planning Commission recommend
approval of Interim Use Permit #92 -1 to permit outdoor storage with the
following conditions:
1. The outdoor storage shall be completely screened by a 100% opaque fence
or landscaped screen.
2. The area for screened outdoor storage shall be improved with a gravel
surface.
3. The outdoor storage will be removed from the site upon completion of
phase 3 of the mini- storage facility.
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Planning Commission Meeting
January 15, 1992 - Page 10 ti
4. The applicant shall provide a landscaping plan acceptable to the
Planning Commission and a letter of credit shall be submitted to cover
the cost of material installation and one year warranty. 1
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Emmings: This goes to City Council on February 10th. 1
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT CONCERNING NON- CONFORMING RECREATIONAL BEACHLOTS
AND TO RECEIVE A NON - CONFORMING USE PERMIT. 1
Kate Aanenson presented the staff report on this item.
Emmings: This is not a public hearing or was there a public hearing on
this before?
Aanenson: You had the public hearing and the hearing was closed. Just thel
ordinance itself, the passage was tabled.
Emmings: Alright and now though you're recommending this alternative
ordinance and was there ever a public, is this the first time this has come
before us? I missed the last meeting.
Krauss: No, it was published and had a public hearing that you opened in 1
December I think it was.
Aanenson: December 4th, yes. 1
Krauss: The alternative is a modification of the original. The public
notice would be no different. We also did take great pains to notify
everybody. We sent copies of both ordinances to all homeowners
associations.
Emmings: Okay. So the only difference between the one that you're
1
recommending now and the one that was on the table before is using 1991 as
a baseline instead of 1982?
Aanenson: Correct. 1
Emmings: That shouldn't hurt anybody. That will make them happier than
anything I assume.
Krauss: We should also add Commissioner Emmings that we did make a lot of
modifications to the ordinance itself based upon comments we received but 1
that's in either alternative.
Emmings: Okay. I was wondering if there were any, do you feel that you
have to do the same thing for each beachlot? They're all going to have to 1
have a baseline of the same year?
3 1 Krauss: Yeah, I think equity demands that you do.
Ahrens: What were you thinking?