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CC 2013 06 10 CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING JUNE 10, 2013 Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Furlong, Councilman McDonald, Councilwoman Tjornhom, and Councilman Laufenburger COUNCIL MEMBERS ABSENT: Councilwoman Ernst STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Laurie Hokkanen, Paul Oehme, Kate Aanenson, Todd Hoffman, and Greg Sticha PUBLIC PRESENT: th Wes Dunsmore 730 West 96 Street th Gary Bendzick 731 West 96 Street Marty Schutrop 540 Lakota Lane Mayor Furlong: Thank you and welcome to those here in the council chambers and those watching at home. We’re glad that you joined us this evening. At this time I would like to add one item to our agenda this evening. We’ll call it item number 4 under new business and that would be for the council to consider appointments for youth commissioners to our Park and Rec Commission so without objection we’ll add that to the agenda. And then I would ask members of the council if there are any other modifications or changes to the agenda. If not, we’ll proceed with the agenda as published without objection. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilman McDonald seconded to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s recommendations: a. Approval of Minutes: -City Council Work Session Minutes dated May 28, 2013 -City Council Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated May 28, 2013 Receive Commission Minutes: -Planning Commission Verbatim and Summary Minutes dated May 21, 2013 b. Lift Station 10 Improvements, Project 13-07: Approve Consultant Contract. Resolution #2013-35: c. 2014 Street Improvement Project 14-01: Approve Consultant Contract and Authorize the Preparation of Feasibility Study. d. TH 101 (Lyman to Pioneer) Project 12-06: Amend Consultant Contract with Kimley-Horn for Final Design. e. Approve Dedication of Drainage and Utility Easement, Lot 4, Block 1, Wynsong. Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 f. Deleted. g. Approve Purchase Agreement for Excess Right-of-Way with Center Companies, Sinclair Redevelopment Project, 7910 Dakota Avenue. h. Approve Special Assessment Agreement to Finance SAC Fees, First Steps Daycare. i. Approve Temporary On-Sale Liquor License, July 2, 2013, Chanhassen Rotary Club. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS. None. BLUFF CREEK WOODS: REQUEST TO REZONE 3.57 ACRES OF LAND FROM AGRICULTURAL ESTATE DISTRICT (A-2) TO SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT (RSF); SUBDIVISION WITH VARIANCES FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A PRIVATE STREET AND USE OF A NECK LOT; AND A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE BLUFF CREEK OVERLAY DISTRICT; 7331 HAZELTINE BOULEVARD. APPLICANT: MARTIN SCHUTROP. Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. This application is located on 7331 Hazeltine Boulevard which is also known as 41. Across from Camp Tanadoona and kind of the entrance there to Westwood Church. The request involves a couple of actions. The first is to rezone the property from Agricultural Estate to Single Family Residential. There’s a subdivision with variances for a neck lot and the construction of a private street. Also for a conditional use to allow development within the Bluff Creek Overlay District. So the applicant is proposing to develop 3 residential lots as shown here. Again the reason why it would need to have the variances for the private drive is that the only way to really access this property is to come off of the existing driveway there. It’s very steep coming off of 41 and the turn movements. The State wouldn’t allow those extra driveways. The City ordinance allows only 4 driveways. There’s the existing 2 homes. The one home on the property was built in 1966 and then there’s an additional home just to the north of the subject site up in this area here so the 2 additional homes would make the 4 homes off the private street. So with the 4 lots, they all exceed minimum lot size would be 15,000. They all exceed that requirement and then there will also be an outlot created which I’ll talk about in a minute. So when this item appeared before the Planning Commission on May st 21 they did recommend approval 7-0. There was a concern from the neighbor just to the north of the site that has access via this private drive regarding the confusion of the trail and the existing driveways. We tried to show the color differentiation. There is a trail that runs along here and then goes into the Longacres neighborhood so this would be the driveways as they come into the different properties. This would be to Lot 3, Lot 2 and what we’re recommending then, this would be the common portion of those. Again those portions that are common have to meet the 7 ton design. This part through here and then the driveway to the existing home. Staff did meet with the neighbor to the north here regarding some of the drainage issues on that property and access and working on posting that to make sure it’s clear. The trail access not to be confused with the driveway and when this does have to come back for final plat so there’s a few issues that need to be further clarified that were not shown on the original site plan and that would be one thing that we’d make sure gets addressed before it comes back for final plat. And again typically on final plat, if they meet all those conditions that we’ve identified with the staff report, then we would just put that on consent but I think we’ve addressed that issue regarding access and drainage. And again with this there is a variance required. Because of the steep grades there, really the best way to access this and the turn movements and the speed on 41 would be coming off the existing driveway that’s in place right now for the current home and then the home just north of this proposed property. So we believe that it’s not going to be detrimental. We’re controlling the access point there and due to the 2 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 constraints there’s no other way to subdivide this property. It meets the ordinance. It does allow up to 4 with a variance and we believe that it’s a reasonable, it’s not just inconvenience. It’s really the only way to develop and because these aren’t the minimum lot sizes, we’re not trying to force anything in there that we believe that the variance is warranted. So the Bluff Creek Overlay District runs over the entire property. Again when we looked at the Overlay District, what the ordinance says is that you go out and field verify the location of that. Again with the subdivision you have to treat your storm water so the thinking of that was after walking the site is that Outlot A would be preserved for the, in lieu of the stormwater pond, providing that additional extraction, that area to control the storm water. In addition that Outlot A has a knoll on it too so there’s two kind of knolls on the property at 970. The wetland itself is at 960 so that does provide for some nice noise, light attenuation as people are driving on 41 for some of that, kind of that sound barrier. Then in addition this is kind of that orange would be primary zone. New line there would be that orange so Outlot A would be in lieu of paying stormwater fees. Preservation of that and then the primary zone, follow the orange and what we’re showing here on the green is the setback from that. So these houses, these lots are plenty deep. The buildable area is shown on here. It just needs to be pushed out a little bit from that. Both of these and there’s plenty of room on those lots to accommodate that. So on the grading and drainage again I just explained kind of the higher knolls. This would be the area that would be served. Again it’s a heavily wooded site. Existing home here and then the grades on this. This is all going to be custom grades. Again between now and final plat want a little bit more identification of some of the grading on those lots but believe that can all be accommodated and meet the city ordinances. There is utilities. This project did get utilities when we did the BC7, BC8 project which accommodated going all the way out to Pulte Homes and then out to Westwood Church which provided the sewer and water for this area. The applicant did do a tree inventory and removal plan and buffer yard plantings are required so that’s all being accommodated and it does meet city ordinance as the project is proposed. There is a trail, as I indicated, that goes along the front of this property that also goes through Longacres and now that we’ll make that new connection it will actually be able to go through the Longacres neighborhood and then come back out onto, to get over to the regional park in that area so we’re not requiring any additional dedication at this time but rather the park and trail fees for the two new lots. So with that we’re recommending that you approve the plat with the rezoning with variances and the conditional use for the alternation into the Bluff Creek Overlay District and approval of the Findings of Fact. And I’d be happy to answer any questions that you have. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for staff? Councilman McDonald: I’ve got a question. Mayor Furlong: Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Could you go back to the, I guess it’s the orange and green. Can you explain, okay especially within the third lot down there. If I put a house down there, what’s the significance of the green and the orange? What does that mean as far as the home? Kate Aanenson: This is the primary zone and we’re just saying that this is a buffer to that primary zone so this house pad, there’s plenty of area there. It just needs to push forward so it’s outside of that. That building envelope, same as this would have to go kind of to the south. Just move out of that primary zone. Councilman McDonald: Okay, and as I understand it they couldn’t build anything within the primary, or within the setback, the buffer area or the primary zone, is that right? Kate Aanenson: (Yes). 3 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Councilman McDonald: Like patios and those kind of things would have to be outside. Kate Aanenson: A permit, something that would need a building permit, correct. Addition to the house. A screen porch, something that would require a building permit we would not permit. That’s something that would need a permit. Councilman McDonald: Okay, and with those zones and the chart you have within the packet, does that give us the buildable area that’s available, even with, you know the buildable area with the setbacks and everything included or? Kate Aanenson: No. Councilman McDonald: What’s in that number? Kate Aanenson: That would be the gross, but they’re still in excess of 29,000 to 40,000 so there’s plenty of room on all those lots. Councilman McDonald: Okay, so Lot 1 I’ve got 43,000 square feet but that’s gross. That doesn’t take into account the green. Kate Aanenson: Lot 1 would be just about 30,000 taking that out. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Kate Aanenson: Lot 2 would be about 40,000. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Kate Aanenson: And Lot 3 would be 56,000 taking that out so they’re still well in excess of the minimums. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Kate Aanenson: Excuse me, Lot 3. I’m sorry, Lot 3 would actually be, I was giving you Outlot A. Would also be just about 29,000. I’m sorry, Lot 3. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Kate Aanenson: Again the minimum is 15,000. Again looking at this based on the topography, that’s kind of some of the challenge there too. With these lots sizes, because you can only get 3 homes, kind of that’s the best way for the utility to try to make them lay out and working with the grades and so there is room on there to alter the, to move these outside of that area so just abutting it or to the like. Councilman McDonald: And then where is Bluff Creek in relation? Is it to the south or to the east of the orange itself? Kate Aanenson: It’s to the south and behind it. Let’s see if I can, I have a map here. This is the Overlay District but maybe it might be better if I got a map up here that would show it within. So if you look on this is the, this is all in the Overlay District. All of this property’s in the Overlay District in here and I can show that to you in a couple different ways on this map. This is another map of the Overlay District. This is the subject site so if you go all the way down, if you look at the apartment, this would also include 4 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 that property that the apartments was pretty consistent with that. Then I think you can also see it on the park and trail plan. Some of that stuff that’s been preserved so this is the subject site in yellow. Sorry, I’ll go back to the subject site in yellow. So that’s part of that creek over shot. It’s not just the creek. It’s the flood way also too and that’s, there’s a significant wetland immediately abutting this property. So we talk about that when you look at that elevation and the noise attenuation, that’s why it’s important to kind of save that knoll and those heavily wooded trees. I think that will provide a nice buffer for those homes. Those new homes that are going in there. Councilman McDonald: Okay. That’s the only big question I had. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Mr. Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Kate, can you go back to, there was a slide that had proposed, developer’s proposal and then staff recommendations. Right about there. Has the developer agreed with the staff recommendations specifically on that driveway? Kate Aanenson: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think the issue there too was, you know we’ve had that concern that we have enough back up area. We don’t overlap because that does count towards our hard cover so. Councilman Laufenburger: Yep, okay. Kate Aanenson: But we still provide a back up so the last person doesn’t have the back up. Councilman Laufenburger: So on this particular slide with the staff recommendation shows in looks like to be like a turquoise is, that will be the connector to whatever driveway is used to go to the house in Lot 1, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. So wherever they, again it will be custom graded so that will be kind of that touch down point and that would be the 7, where it’s common would be the 7 ton design. After that it would just be a single purpose driveway to wherever that house lands, correct. Councilman Laufenburger: Alright, thank you. That was my only question Mr. Mayor. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other questions? Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah. There’s a lot of stuff going on on Highway 41 right now in that area. Do you perceive any problems with even more construction? Kate Aanenson: Well that was, I think because sewer and water’s available there and because they’re going to be custom graded, I think we can work through those issues as far as access management of that. I think that was the one concern the neighbor to the north had so we said we’d also work with them in using better signage and the like during the construction and making sure we’re managing that. That would include mud onto the streets and the trails and that sort of thing too. Was that your question? Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson, following up on Mr. McDonald’s questions about use and such like that. Within the, as is proposed here, within the green and the orange shaded area, what type of uses would be allowable? 5 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Kate Aanenson: In the primary zone there’s no permitted use within that but in the green area, if it doesn’t require a building permit, as long as your principle structure is set outside of that, then that’s just a setback from the primary so just for the principle structure or anything again requiring a building permit. So if it was a large gazebo or something like that. There are some things that would not require a building permit that someone could use it for as part of their yard space and the like. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman McDonald: Can you give us an example of what that would be? Kate Aanenson: Swing set. Those sort of things. A dog run. Those sort of things. Mayor Furlong: But a gazebo would not be allowed? Kate Aanenson: If it’s over 100 square feet, those usually require a building permit. So if somebody did a smaller fire pit or something like that. Typically it just depends on the size that would require a permit. Mayor Furlong: And what’s the measurement or the distance on Lot 1 there? From the southerly property line to the north end of the primary zone. What’s that distance? The orange segment from the, yeah. Right in there. Kate Aanenson: I believe it’s 70 feet. Mayor Furlong: 70? Kate Aanenson: (Yes). Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then the green is another 40? Kate Aanenson: I believe so. Mayor Furlong: So about 110 then from the property line. Kate Aanenson: Well the 70’s a no, would only be the demarcation of the 40 would then be that kind of the buffer that you’re trying to not to put a principle structure in. Mayor Furlong: Or even 40 feet next to that. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, for the principle, correct. So you have a back yard, correct. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright, thank you. Any other questions for staff at this time? Is the applicant here this evening? Is there anything you’d like to address the council on? Okay. Any questions for the applicant? Councilman McDonald: Yeah, if the applicant wouldn’t mind coming forward, I have a couple questions. This Lot 3, what kind of home do you intend to build on there? How many square feet and, because when I look at this you don’t have a lot of room there. Marty Schutrop: Actually the building pad is I would say, I’m not sure what we drew those at but they’re I would say at least what, 2,400 square foot building pads. 6 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Kate Aanenson: Yeah, they’re pretty substantial I would say. Equivalent to what we have in Longacres or bigger, yeah. Marty Schutrop: But right now there is no plans for the house plans for the building. I mean whatever I do do has to be, has to stay within that little postage stamp area that they’ve given us which. Kate Aanenson: It’s this area here. Marty Schutrop: Yeah, I mean we can fit it in there. You know we weren’t, I mean the green part was thrown on us. You know we didn’t, I wasn’t aware of that part and that was one of the staff proposals I think that we saw after the Planning Commission meeting so. Councilman McDonald: Well I guess I’m really concerned about Lot 1 because I just don’t see a lot of room down there. And what I’m looking for is, what’s the homeowner going to end up doing. I mean you can probably put a pad on there and you can put a house on there but then what can a homeowner add? Marty Schutrop: They can have a yard. It’s mostly trees there so the trees are just going to stay and very minimal yard area in the back. Councilman McDonald: So you wouldn’t be looking at building a deck or doing anything as far as landscaping? Marty Schutrop: Well there’d be a deck but we’d pull the whole thing to the south and to the west. The whole house pad. Kate Aanenson: Can I ask a question because I’m not sure. Mayor Furlong: Sorry, are you looking at 3 or, Lot 3 or Lot 1? Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Marty Schutrop: One. Kate Aanenson: Well that lot is again, that lot with outside of that on Lot 3 was 30,000 square feet so if, even at this if you wanted to put a deck, I mean the lot’s 30,000 square feet. That’s double the size of a typical lot, which would be, you could put a 5,000 square foot home on there. We’re just saying if you pull it forward, there’s a significant amount of trees. The further back you go the more you cut down trees also to put the driveway in so that’s what we’re saying. We want to look at those. They’re custom graded. What works best for whatever your buyer wants, which you don’t know. Whether they want a ramble or a big two story so we’ll look at that on a case by case basis but we’re just saying that we think if we can pull these out, and this same map went to the Planning Commission so I just want to be clear on that. Marty Schutrop: Yeah well and yeah, I didn’t see it until then. Kate Aanenson: Okay, yeah. Marty Schutrop: The green part. Kate Aanenson: Okay. So all we’re saying is just pull these forward. The lots are 20, almost 30,000 square feet so we’re just recommending that we pull it forward to give the buyer some flexibility and 7 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 again we’re going to look at it on a case by case basis. No one’s saying that’s where the house will go. The buyer may not want it there. They’re going to be custom graded. Councilman McDonald: Well I guess what I’m looking at is, you know we had the problem in Pinehurst. They built lots this way that we put restrictions on and suddenly you can’t be building decks. You couldn’t put boulder walls in the back. You couldn’t do landscaping and we went through a lot of trouble and the buyer was under the impression they could. It’s up to the builder to tell them they can’t but then again when people are building houses they sometimes don’t hear all that and they don’t understand about what these restrictions are upon them and then suddenly they come back to the City and they’re all upset. What I’m asking is, you know is this reasonable for you to be able to put a house on there and then someone be able to move in and they’re going to do what most people in this city do. They add decks. They add patios. They add stuff in the back that again will start to encroach in this area and we’ve got to tell them you can’t build there. Marty Schutrop: That’s why there’s rules when you submit a building permit so. Councilman McDonald: That’s fine when you submit a building permit but most homeowners don’t and that’s a reality that we have to deal with. Marty Schutrop: Well that’s, I wouldn’t, I’m a contractor so I guess I wouldn’t know that so. Anything I would build has to have a building permit so. Councilman McDonald: Right, but what I’m looking at is the eventual homeowner and what kind of a problem are we creating for ourselves in the future. Marty Schutrop: Well if it was my preference I would get rid of the green zone because I, I mean there’s so much buffer zone. There’s so much protected. I mean Outlot A is almost you know three quarters of an acre that we’re donating to the City. Kate Aanenson: Well let’s clarify that. You’re not having to pay stormwater fees in lieu of that donation. Marty Schutrop: Right. Yeah but I’m just saying is that when you look at the acreage of this site and when you look at, there’s only two additional lots on it. That’s a very minimal use of that acreage so it’s very, it doesn’t impact the site dramatically. And the amount of trees that we’re going to be taking out on Lot 1 is minimal and then Lot 3 they’ll just be, you know just enough to take the, you know to put the house in there and that’s just the way, because it’s a wooded site so. But as far as keeping somebody, there’s no rule you can do to keep somebody from building or doing something that they want to do. I mean you can’t. Councilman McDonald: Well yeah, there’s no way you can stop them from doing it but then we go tell them, you’ve got to tear it down. That’s not the position I think the City ought to. Marty Schutrop: Well then maybe we shouldn’t let them build at all. I mean that’s kind of where you get and I’ve lived in this city for a long time and I know that people do what they want to do you know but you can’t, I mean you can make all the laws you want but people are still going to break them so. Councilman McDonald: Well again what I’m trying to get at is, what would be a reasonable thing to do for this particular lot because I just don’t believe you’ve got enough there to put a house on there and then be able to have something for a homeowner to do something with their property with. That’s all I’m trying to get at. 8 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Marty Schutrop: Well if you pull those pads forward you still have plenty of room within those pads to do a house and a deck. Councilman McDonald: Okay, and how far forward are you talking about going? All the way up to where the driveway’s at so you would shift the house toward the front where 41’s at? Marty Schutrop: Yeah, well that’s what the City is, they’re proposing is that we have to pull those. Kate Aanenson: Just forward slightly. Marty Schutrop: Forward a little bit yeah. Kate Aanenson: Again the lots are 30,000 square feet so I mean these are pretty large ones. Councilman McDonald: Well yeah it’s a lot of lot but it’s the shape of the lot. That’s what I’m getting at. It’s long and narrow. You’re hemmed in on the sides as to what you can do. Kate Aanenson: I think part of the problem is we’re being, we’re reviewing this when we don’t have a plan in front of us. Marty Schutrop: Right. Kate Aanenson: So what we’re saying is that we want to create a buffer. So if you take the green buffer away and say stay out of the orange one, now you’re stuck with the same problem. Is someone going to stay out of the orange buffer so the goal is to say, let’s pull the house forward slightly and then give them enough room to operate. To provide them flexibility on the lot. Again we don’t know. That’s going to be the orientation of the house. They’ve kind of looked at a base where they think the garage should go based on some of the grading, which we looked at too. Kind of what would be a typical but again these are, you know besides Wynsong some of the largest lots we’ve done in the city for quite a while so there’s a lot of flexibility. Councilman McDonald: Maybe that’s the question. Why is the orange so large? I mean you explained where Bluff Creek is at and everything and that’s a large area that’s been taken out for the overlay there. Why is that? Why don’t we push the whole line back towards the back of the property line? Kate Aanenson: Well because the whole area was in the Overlay District. We walked it and defined where it should be based on existing topography. Again this has the knoll that provides some noise attenuation. Some buffering so. Marty Schutrop: Yeah and my preference was to actually, when we originally looked at this property was to add another lot too but because of the knolls and the trees and the stormwater and all that stuff, we ended up just going with just two additional lots instead of three. Kate Aanenson: Right, let’s be clear on that too. The city ordinance only allows 4 homes off of a private drive so there was already one so you could only have 2 more. Marty Schutrop: Right, so I mean yeah. I mean. Mayor Furlong: And this is a shared drive with the property to the north, correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct so that’s your fourth, correct. 9 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Marty Schutrop: Well we could have made, instead of doing Outlot A we originally were just going to make Lot 1 bigger but I’m not sure where that orange line would be and again as a, somebody’s that’s trying to develop it we’re kind of, you know we’re trying to work with the City and we’re trying to meet all these rules to at least get one more lot there so. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger, did you have a question? Councilman Laufenburger: Kate, can you give a pretty close dimensions. I’m looking at Lot 1 and what is the, what is the distance from the edge of the green to what must be a setback from the property line adjacent to the property two? What’s the width of that buildable? The white space is buildable right? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, yeah. So what’s the width there? I’ve got to believe that’s got to be maybe 70 or 80 feet. Can you tell? Kate Aanenson: On Lot 1? Councilman Laufenburger: On Lot 1, yeah. Kate Aanenson: Well it’s 120 across the front so minus the 40. 80. Councilman Laufenburger: So 80 and what’s the setback from the property line, 10? So that’s 70 feet so if you built a 70 by 70, that’s 4,900 square feet. You’re going to build smaller than that aren’t you? For a foot print. Marty Schutrop: Well I don’t know. I mean yeah, of course more than likely it’s going to be a lot smaller than that but that’s what I’m saying, it’s kind of deceptive when you look at that. You look at well there’s just this little spot but it’s the pad. I think our pads are drawn at, aren’t they drawn at like 50 by 50? Councilman Laufenburger: It’s looks like that’s drawn about 60 by 40. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. That’s. Marty Schutrop: Our lot pads are 50 by 50, yeah. Mayor Furlong: And I think there’s that buildable area in the white area. What I’m hearing from Mr. McDonald too is the homeowner’s use of the property after it’s built. Councilman Laufenburger: Yep. Mayor Furlong: And from structure standpoint as well as just other uses. Marty Schutrop: Well and the homeowner is allowed to use that property and mow it and put you know lawn furniture in the green zone. Councilman Laufenburger: Mow it? Mow it? Marty Schutrop: Well yeah they have to mow it. 10 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Councilman Laufenburger: Flowers and stuff like that in it? Marty Schutrop: Well and there’s nothing restricting that so, it’s just basically saying you can’t put a structure in that area. That’s all it’s saying. Councilman Laufenburger: A structure that requires a permit. Marty Schutrop: Right. Put a garden shed in that area if it’s just for like a storage shed for a lawnmower. That doesn’t impact it but what the City is saying, you can’t build a, you know a garage back there or something that requires a permit so. Councilman Laufenburger: Can you just, you didn’t identify yourself right at the beginning. Maybe that would be worthwhile. Marty Schutrop: Right, Marty Schutrop. I’m the. Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you. Marty. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. I’m sorry. Councilman Laufenburger: If this development goes forward, is it your intent to comply with the City guide lines and the City rules and ordinances? Marty Schutrop: Well obviously, yes. As a building contractor if I don’t I’m in trouble so. Councilman Laufenburger: Just wanted to clarify that. Marty Schutrop: No, and I’ve worked with the City for many, many years and I’m in good standing with them. You know I would prefer not to have the green zone either and be less restrictive but from what I understand there’s really no negotiation on that green zone with the City, as I understand it so. Councilman McDonald: Well and again the thing I’m looking at, if we’re looking at trying to set that house back to attenuate for noise and everything from 41, we just took a lot of space away from you and we just pushed it up towards 41. And I guess all I’m looking at is, again someone’s going to show up here, maybe all 3 of them will show up here and they’re going to complain about the restrictions that’s placed on their lots and they’re going to be upset that all they get to do is mow it and then pay taxes for the rest of it. You should have use of your property and we’ve done that on all other locations. I’m just trying to understand why this one is different and why we’re restricting it. I mean that’s a lot of property that we’re taking away and you’re telling me it’s okay with you. Marty Schutrop: It isn’t okay with me but you know when you’re in a position where you want to get, just get it through, I mean you could fight for 6 months to a year to get something like this taken out and that, all that time costs us time and money to try to develop the property so. Councilman McDonald: Well you don’t have to fight 6 months to a year. You make your case before us tonight and we can do something about it. If you don’t have a case to make then fine, I’m going to go along with the staff’s position. Marty Schutrop: Well my, yeah and again my case to make is that I don’t want to delay the project any longer than I have to but yes. My intent when we placed them back there was to get them farther away from the existing roads and the farther back you get on those properties the quieter it gets. The one 11 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 existing house on Lot 2 is you know, there’s a lot of noise in the front of that house because it’s you know right up against 41. Councilman McDonald: Right against the road. Marty Schutrop: So my, yeah. I would prefer to put it back but you know whoever buys those properties is going to decide where they want the house and they might want a bigger back yard so they might pull the house forward. Mayor Furlong: And use the house to block the noise for the back yard. I guess the question, Ms. Aanenson with the Wynsong development we were looking at conservation easements there and we ended up changing that to a, I don’t recall what we called it. Was it a preservation easement or something like that? I think that’s one comment because I think to Mr. McDonald’s concern, which I agree with is the homeowner’s use subsequent to the building. I think we can deal with setbacks and such like that and you can find a place but it’s that use afterwards. I think one thing that maybe we can consider is to take away a conservation easement and put the preservation easement in there which gives the City then, Mr. Gerhardt we’ve talked about this before. In fact I think we all talked about it with Wynsong. It gives the City the opportunity, if there’s a reasonable request for use in those areas, to provide an encroachment agreement and we do that quite a bit and I think even in that case, that preservation easement was taken in lieu again of the stormwater management fees. Clearly I think, well with regard to Outlot A, that’s going to be dedicated to the City, correct? Is that correct or is it going to be maintained? Marty Schutrop: Haven’t done it yet but that’s the intent so. Kate Aanenson: That’s the recommendation because it’s in lieu of the stormwater fees. Marty Schutrop: No, but we do have the option to pay those stormwater, the fees and not donate it to the City. Kate Aanenson: That’s true and then we’d have to kind of review that. Where we would manage those stormwater on the site so then we’d have to kind of go back and revisit the plat. Mayor Furlong: Well but. Kate Aanenson: Can I just make one point of clarification? The staff is recommending altering the conditional use for the Bluff Creek Overlay District because this whole property is in the Overlay District which we agreed was probably not the best way to handle it so what the ordinance says is that we go back and we walk it. So we had all, the stormwater, forester and a planner go walk it to determine where we believe that it should be revised so it has been reduced down to the entire property to get to where we are today. So if we’re going to modify then, we’d also have to modify the conditional use if we’re going to take the Overlay District off completely. Then we would want to modify that too. Mayor Furlong: Yeah and that’s, I guess taking it off completely is one consideration. I’m just thinking that if it stays on there, if the orange area stays, that instead of calling it a conservation easement over that area, we look at a preservation easement which may address some of Mr. McDonald’s questions of use. If a resident has a use in those areas, it’s something that we could deal with at the City through an encroachment agreement. Kate Aanenson: Just a point of clarification again then I’ll ask the City Attorney to speak, because we’re calling it the primary zone because we’re altering the Bluff Creek Overlay District that was defined as a primary area and secondary zone is how we’ve identified it on this map so if you’re not calling it the 12 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Overlay District and calling it preservation, then we’re further modifying the conditional, which is fine. I just want to make sure we’re clear on what we’re doing. Marty Schutrop: And for me too the, I mean when, if we didn’t have the green zone, what I would do with Lot 1 is I would try to turn the house a little bit to pull it a little farther away from the other house so they aren’t crammed together you know 3 in a row too so that’s, and one of the reasons we made Lot 1 120 feet was so that we can get a little more distance from the other house. The existing house on Lot 2. But with this it’s going to be pretty much up to the setbacks to be able to fit a house on there so. Mayor Furlong: Is it your intention at this point to keep house 2 as it is? Keep the existing house. Marty Schutrop: That’s, yeah. That’s already, that’s not going to change so. Mayor Furlong: I guess Ms. Aanenson, to answer your question, and maybe this is something for clarification for me and the rest of the council. If the orange area remains the primary zone, as I understood the staff report there was going to be a conservation easement over the primary zone. What I’m asking is when we had a, similar to the other development, instead of a conservation easement over the primary zone, put a preservation easement over the primary zone. Preservation being a city controlled easement as opposed to, as I understood it from Mr. Knutson, conservation easement has statutory and other restrictions that take the control out of the city and. Roger Knutson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: So, so it’s not necessarily, I mean I have concerns any time we start putting easements over private property. I understand sometimes we have to do it. I understand setbacks and while they limit the area that you can build in, what I’m trying to do is, and I agree with Mr. McDonald, from the City and the contractor’s standpoint you’re trying to, and I think you even used the word negotiate. You’re trying to negotiate what’s workable. Kate Aanenson: Right. Mayor Furlong: And the thing that we want to keep in mind too is, eventually a family’s going to move in here and they’re going to want to use and enjoy the property and so how do we give them some flexibility on that use and enjoyment that isn’t too black and white restrictive. Councilman McDonald: Not too restrictive. Kate Aanenson: Right. Mayor Furlong: A preservation easement providing some reasonable uses is something that, might be a way to look forward to here. If there’s not a desire to move the lines, then how do we keep the lines there and provide some more flexibility to the home, the ultimate homeowners and residents that are moving in there? So that’s one thought I have. I think you know with regards to Outlot A, whether that’s dedicated or not, as this is being proposed, there would be an easement preservation as I’m suggesting, or conservation over that area in any event and so, and that would not be, that would remain as an outlot. It’s non-buildable, correct? Kate Aanenson: Correct. An outlot would be not be buildable, correct. Mayor Furlong: So to do anything with that they’d have to come through an entire process. 13 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: From a use other than just keeping it as it is. And that would require City Council approval, if I’m not mistaken, for an outlot. For any use to an outlot. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: Since there’s no plat or anything on that at this point so that ultimately, Mr. Schutrop is always your decision there. So maybe Mr. McDonald, I mean I agree with you. The less orange and green on this map the better I think for the use and so maybe that’s one way on the orange area to look at a preservation easement with the idea being that some reasonable uses in that area would be okay. Marty Schutrop: Well in the orange area I totally understand that. That’s not an issue. The green area is, like you said, I was surprised to see how much was green because it does restrict what somebody can do to the property and the reality is, is that there’s so much orange. I mean I don’t know. Again I don’t really have the authority to say this or that with it so but I would prefer if the green area wasn’t there. You know the only part is I prefer to have the houses back farther just away from the other house. And by pushing them up farther it’s just going to get them closer to 41 which is not going to be the best. I think a homeowner’s going to complain more about that. Councilman McDonald: Right. Marty Schutrop: Then they are about anything. Just having to go so far forward when they have so much property behind them so. Councilman McDonald: Well I’ve been on the house on Lot 2 out in the front quite often and it is noisy. Marty Schutrop: It is in the front. The back is really quiet but the front is very noisy and it sits up on the top too so it catches more noise. Councilman McDonald: Right, but if that one is going to remain the way it is, then it is what it is. But that’s why I’m asking a question and then if we go to what the mayor is talking about, preservation easement, then does the green go away and the yellow shrink or orange shrink or what happens? Mayor Furlong: I don’t know if the green goes away. If the orange is still the primary zone, does our current ordinance require a 40 foot setback from the primary zone? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: That’s what our current ordinance says. Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Furlong: So we’d have to. Kate Aanenson: Right. But what we’re saying is that, it’s an area that you know again, as a setback you can’t put a permanent, a structure that requires a permit but you can use that property but protect that so. Councilman Laufenburger: Well, Mr. Mayor? Mayor Furlong: Yes, Mr. Laufenburger. 14 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Councilman Laufenburger: Kate, do I understand this correctly? If the nomenclature that we put on the orange changes from conservation to preservation easement, the green stays. The green setback stays, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: (Yes). Councilman Laufenburger: And you can’t build a permitted structure in the green. So what are we accomplishing by changing that from a conservation easement to a preservation easement? Yes, we as a City Council could make a decision to adjust the lines or could we also make a decision to relieve the setback rules? Is that something we could do with the green? Kate Aanenson: I’ll let the City Attorney respond to that one. Roger Knutson: If the City Council changed the rules on the primary zone and the setback, if you had a conservation easement it would be, you couldn’t implement those changes. Councilman Laufenburger: Because the conservation easement is statute oriented. Roger Knutson: Yes. Councilman Laufenburger: But the preservation easement is council. Roger Knutson: And so you, the council could approve an amendment to that as well. Councilman Laufenburger: And that amendment could include adjusting the lines of the green setback. Roger Knutson: Yes. Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you. Mayor Furlong: Yeah. Councilman Laufenburger: I think that answers my question. Mayor Furlong: There’s flexibility and with regard to the location and the lines I guess that’s part of what’s being discussed here as well. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Furlong: Yes, Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Is it going to cost the contractor any more money by doing that? Changing that. No? Mayor Furlong: To a preservation? No. I think my thought is, and I think it’s similar to what we discussed with the Wynsong development was that, where there was some stands of trees and areas that were being maintained in lieu of payment of stormwater management fees, which is what is being proposed here as well. That it was a preservation rather than conservation so if somebody, if the homeowner wanted to do a small type of use in that area and it still was okay, it was reasonable, then that 15 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 was something that the City could grant, which we would not be able to do if it was a conservation easement. As I recall with that development. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct and those preservation easements would be developed and ready to, you’d see those with the final plat. Mayor Furlong: Right. Kate Aanenson: When it would come back. Correct. Mayor Furlong: Yeah. Councilman McDonald: Then let me ask the developer, if we go and do all that and we do something about the green zone, what does that do for that lot, Lot 1 and also for Lot 3 as far as now housing? Would that change the pad? Marty Schutrop: I don’t think it’s going to change the size of the house that’s put on there. It’s just going to maybe change the position of the house is all it’s going to change. Councilman McDonald: Okay, and at that point does that give a future homeowner more use of their property if they want it? Marty Schutrop: I think it gives them more flexibility because again you can turn the house maybe a little bit more or orientate it better because you’re not stuck with just that narrow strip right there. I think it would actually position the house better if you had a little less green zone on it and a little more, you know just, and I’m not saying encroaching you know. Even if you, it doesn’t have to be that much. It just has to be enough, like you said. Right now you’re basically 70 feet minus 10 so you’re at 60 foot. You have a 60 foot strip that you can build on and when you look at the size of that lot, that’s not a very big strip to build on so. Councilman McDonald: Right. Mayor Furlong: I’m sorry, you’re saying the white, the width of the white area on Lot 1? Marty Schutrop: Yeah, that’s because you have a 10 foot setback. Okay, so you have 120 feet minus 40 so that gets down to 80. Councilman Laufenburger: That’s 80. Marty Schutrop: Okay, 80 feet minus 10 so that’s 70 feet that you’ve got a variance there. I mean I prefer not to put on a house 10 feet from the lot line either. I would prefer to put it 15 or 20 feet away to give it a little more space between the two homes so. Mayor Furlong: Yeah, how far is the existing home north of that lot line, do you know? Marty Schutrop: Well what we did was we moved part of the reason we put the lot line there is because I wanted to allow the homeowner that bought the existing house to be able to add a third stall so we allowed for that on that property so we allowed for a third stall and still made the setback because that’s one of the things people are going to come in and it’s a two stall garage. They’re going to say well I want to add a third stall garage and if I didn’t position it right, they wouldn’t be able to do that so in order, 16 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 that’s why we, so I could. You know at this point I could move the lot back 10 feet again but then I have to replat the whole thing so. Councilman Laufenburger: What’s your additional stall, is that about another 20 feet? Is that about right? Marty Schutrop: No, it’s like 10 feet. Councilman Laufenburger: Oh, okay. Mayor Furlong: Do you know what the current distance is between the southern lot line of Lot 2 and the existing house? Marty Schutrop: It should be, I think it was. Kate Aanenson: Well it’s 10 feet to here so. Probably 30. Marty Schutrop: 25 or 30 feet, yeah. Kate Aanenson: Probably closer yeah, 30. Mayor Furlong: So Mr. McDonald let’s, I understand with what you’re saying on the green area. Unless we want to move the orange, since our current ordinance says that 40 foot. We’d have to move the orange I think it move the green. Am I, is that not correct or. Todd Gerhardt: Reduce this down to move this, this way. Roger Knutson: You would have to reduce the orange. Mayor Furlong: Because the current ordinance, yep. Roger Knutson: These are established by ordinance so you’d. Marty Schutrop: Well and one of the questions I had was why there was more on the south border versus the east border as far as the orange. The primary zone so and I guess I wasn’t really, I mean it’s one of those arbitrary things that was put out that I don’t really, it’s, and I don’t know as I haven’t worked in this type of a zone before as far as the Bluff Creek Overlay but I don’t know how that’s determined and I’m sure Kate knows more than I do. Mayor Furlong: Do you want to respond? Kate Aanenson: There’s a significant wetland. The high quality wetland immediately to the south on that so I’m assuming that’s some of the factor that went into it. This is heavily wooded back behind here but this is the wetland area. If we go back and look at the. Todd Gerhardt: Do you have the air photo. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, we can go back to this. Roger Knutson: And the zones are delineated on the Bluff Creek Water Management Plan so you’d have to change, which is incorporated by reference in your ordinance, so you’d have to start by changing that. 17 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: Well I think the current line covers most of the property, or is that the far north end? Kate Aanenson: Right, I guess that’s what I’m saying. When we negotiated that’s what we started. It seems pretty heavy handed to have the whole thing in there so this was our first thing to say. Well let’s see what we can do to make this reasonable and that’s when we walked it so you can see this is where the wetland is. Along this portion of it here. A pretty significant wetland here and then this is that high knoll and we looked at where the significant trees were on the property. Trying to build within that envelope that we looked at there so. So that’s where that came from. I’m assuming that’s it. Again that’s using the field walking of the property with, it’s not just the water. It’s also the quality of trees. Slopes. All those things go into factor defining that line so we started with it being over the entire piece and said let’s pull that back and. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Any other questions? Councilman McDonald: Well just so I understand. So if we want to affect the orange, that’s really a separate meeting because now you’re telling me we have to go into the Bluff Creek Overlay ordinance and change something there, is that right? Mayor Furlong: Well if I’m not mistaken, with this approval we are effectively changing. Roger Knutson: Yes. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: The line for the primary. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Because the current primary line runs along the north edge of the property and actually. Kate Aanenson: Covers the whole thing, yeah. Mayor Furlong: A little bit of 3 and then everything south of Lot 1, 2, most of 3 and Outlot A are all within the current delineation of the primary zone. Councilman McDonald: So then we could push it back even further then? If we’re already pushing it back, what’s to stop from pushing it all the way down to the lines? Mayor Furlong: Yep. Councilman McDonald: And I guess, I mean my feeling is that again just knowing how people do things, I think we ought to at least accommodate a future homeowner and allow at least some flexibility and freedom as to placing a house on that lot because 41 is a noisy road and I’m not trying to help the developer but I am looking for a future homeowner. I wouldn’t want to live, I wouldn’t want to be pushed out toward 41. I wouldn’t buy the lot and there’s probably a lot of people that would feel the same way. Now granted there’s someone for everything and eventually you’ll find someone but then they’re going to want to add stuff so they can use the back yard and that’s going to come into conflict with our ordinances and stuff and we’re just going to end up fighting with them. 18 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Marty Schutrop: Well and we could take Outlot A, we could move that line back maybe 15 feet to the south and then that, and still keep the green zone just to allow, I mean the line, when we set the 120, 120 feet on Lot 1, I wasn’t anticipating that they were going to take another 40 feet from that outlot line and so that’s kind of, I guess we weren’t really aware of that when we were designing it so. Councilman Laufenburger: But isn’t it true Marty the, you’re releasing Outlot A is in lieu of paying the, is it the surface water fees, is that right? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Marty Schutrop: Yeah. Councilman Laufenburger: Right, right. So I understand that the placement of the orange line is really the judgment of staff based on the forester, the water and the planner walking it, right? Am I saying that correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Marty Schutrop: But see you could still move that line and have the green zone and still nothing’s going to be in that area. I mean there’s not going to be any buildings down there anyway. It’s too low down in that area so. The house is going to be shoved up kind of where it is a little bit anyways. Councilman Laufenburger: But I think we can accomplish what you’re suggesting by naming the orange a preservation easement. That would give the council the ability to have flexibility of moving the lines or moving the thickness of the green. Am I saying that correct Mr. Knutson? Mayor Furlong: Putting a preservation easement over the orange. It would still, we’re still doing it as a primary zone. Councilman Laufenburger: Right. But it’s a primary zone as a preservation easement as opposed to a conservation. Mayor Furlong: Right. Councilman Laufenburger: Because a conservation easement, it’s rules are guided by statute whereas a preservation easement is guided by council decision. Mayor Furlong: And maybe that Mr. McDonald provides a flexibility because as Ms. Aanenson said, this is being proposed without a specific plan in place and so maybe you know I’d be comfortable keeping the orange and the green where they are tonight with a preservation easement for the reasons Mr. Laufenburger mentioned, which if there is something specific or something, when we have something specific in front of us to consider, then we could look at that. I think the preservation easement also provides that flexibility if everything goes forward with this, and I think you know to Mr. Laufenburger’s point, staff by moving these to where they are has already accommodated the property from the original delineation of the primary zone, and I think appropriately and I’ll put it on record, thank you for doing that because to say it’s all in the primary zone makes it a little difficult for anything. So I think a lot of what the preservation easement provides is flexibility to the homeowner. To the future homeowner if there’s room to work it in there. If something specific comes up that we don’t know of now because of a specific plan, then that can be dealt with at the time. If that makes sense. Because I think that would provide future flexibility to the homeowner. It keeps the control of that easement in the control of the 19 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 City so if there’s a reasonable use that may not fit something else, that’s fine but it still respects the work that’s already been done here. Councilman McDonald: Well but at that point does that allow the builder then to do what you’re talking about as far as moving the pad a little bit further or a little bit deeper into it and turning it sideways and then the homeowner would have a use of that property if it’s a permitted use? Councilman Laufenburger: Well it doesn’t, Mr. Mayor it wouldn’t allow the homeowner or the contractor to do that without first coming to the council. Councilman McDonald: Without coming back to, right. Without coming back to the council. Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, we would like to be out to the, Marty might come and say we want to be into the setback area 10 feet or 12 feet and then we would then make the decision. Would we allow that? And the answer would be yes or no. Is that how you’re interpreting that? Councilman McDonald: Sounds fine to me. Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson, does this? Kate Aanenson: I think that’s fine. Again you know most people want a side loaded house. I think more than likely it’s going to kind of be at that orientation. Marty Schutrop: Well no what I’m saying is that you’d just take the house and maybe pivot it so that it’s not facing straight parallel to the lot line. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Marty Schutrop: That you can maybe turn it and make it more of a. Councilman Laufenburger: Not unlike the house in Lot 2 which is turned at a little bit of an angle. Kate Aanenson: Correct, yep. Mayor Furlong: And these will be custom designed homes I assume. Marty Schutrop: Yeah, they’re all custom and same with the grading on these lots. They’re all custom graded lots. Mayor Furlong: So there’s nothing that says the wall of the house has to be straight either. I mean there can be. Marty Schutrop: Yeah well and again, it’s homeowners what they’ll push the envelope no matter what you give them so. Kate Aanenson: You know I think we understand what the developer’s goals and the flexibility and certainly pulling the house forward. If this person puts a garage on, people want the separation. You know it’s a little bit different when you have a larger lot that there’s an expectation so we understand that. I think that’s how we built it. That’s where we started from. You know it’s all in the Overlay District. Trying to find that match and it appears that we’re not quite where some people would like it but I think 20 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 we understand, you know we want to get a good product out here and make it work and I think we can deal with it, work with that. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. Mayor Furlong: Yes. Todd Gerhardt: Staff can sit down with Mr. Schutrop and work out the details. I think we got good direction from council tonight and when we bring back the final plat we’ll show you what we come up with and work with Mr. Schutrop and getting these are custom lots and fitting them in. We may move you know, as Marty brought up, Outlot A to the south or maybe reducing the preservation easement a little bit but kind of move them around to see what works best. Marty Schutrop: Yeah well and actually on Lot 3 the bigger issue is that if we didn’t have the primary zone on that lot at all, which I mean the City owns all those wooded acres to the east. That would give that lot a lot more flexibility too because that’s all heavily wooded and a very kind of a steep side bank on that and it would be better actually if I had a little more room to position that house in for grading and drainage too so that would be, when I look at that, that’s probably the, a better option on that lot too so. And like I said, the wetland is so far away from there it really doesn’t impact it at all. Councilman McDonald: Right. Mayor Furlong: Okay. The request tonight is for preliminary approval, is that correct Ms. Aanenson? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: Okay. If, with regard to what’s been discussed here. I know there’s some conditions in the, there’s some statements in the conditions that talk about conservation easement versus preservation easement. There’s signage being requested and such like that so, is that something that we need to delineate those changes tonight or? Kate Aanenson: My understanding anywhere it says conservation that you want that changed to preservation. Mayor Furlong: I think that’s what we talked about. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Correct. And then as the City Manager stated we’ll look at those. Revisit those definitions of where they’re aligned. Mayor Furlong: And then 7 talks about some signage on the property as well. Kate Aanenson: We’ll revisit that too. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Okay. So and I think 11 talks about, well this is probably. It deals with the conservation easement again and so that will be dealt with under. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: What some uses will be for the homeowner. Okay. Alright, thank you. Marty Schutrop: Thank you. 21 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Mayor Furlong: Our questions and comments kind of merged together there but I think we’re moving towards a conclusion which is ultimately our objective here so other thoughts or comments on the proposal. Overall I’d like to thank Mr. Schutrop and staff for working together and trying to come up with something that’s workable for everybody here and I think I know the Planning Commission spent some time on this as well and got into a lot of the details about the tree coverage and drainage areas and things so I appreciate their efforts but if there’s other discussion or comments, that’s great. Otherwise maybe we could go forward. Mr. McDonald would you like to work on a motion? Or did you have some questions? Councilman McDonald: Well no I was just going to say, yeah you were thanking everybody for working together and I do want to you know thank staff for again, you’re right. You could have just said the whole thing’s in the Bluff Creek Overlay and that would have been the end of it but yeah, I just. And the only reason I bring it up is because again I do want to look at someone who’s going to live there, I would like to give as much flexibility to the homeowner as possible and I know that makes your job easier if you’ve got flexibility so that’s the only reason I really bring it up and is to just look at that particular area within those lots. I mean that’s what I was trying to get at was again the buildability as it was being portrayed with those lots just seemed out of whack and that’s what I wanted to look at so, I want to thank everybody for working together. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman McDonald: And then as far as putting a motion together, can I get with the City Attorney? Mayor Furlong: We’ve got a proposal in front of us. Maybe we can start with that and then make sure that the comments are incorporated or however. Councilman McDonald: Well I guess as I understand it we’re going to change within the findings anything that talks about conservative. Councilman Laufenburger: Conservation. Councilman McDonald: Conservation to preservation so we’re going to change those wordings around. Mayor Furlong: In the conditions as well. Councilman McDonald: In the conditions as well. And then what was the one about the signage? Councilman Laufenburger: Point number 7. Mayor Furlong: Point number 7. Councilman McDonald: Point number 7 would be relooked at? Mayor Furlong: Yeah. And the question there is just signage on the property as opposed to the property line perhaps. Councilman McDonald: And then there’s really nothing else is there with beyond that? Mayor Furlong: I think that will, is that, will that cover what we’ve talked about here? 22 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Roger Knutson: And then you move the items. Mayor Furlong: Yep. So if you want to make that motion. Councilman McDonald: I’ll give it a shot here. Okay, City Council approves the rezoning, preliminary plat with variances and conditional use subject to conditions in the staff report with the changes to the use of the wording for conservation easement to preservation easement and also to look at point 7 which talks about signage and to relook at that and address that based upon conversations between staff and the developer. And also within the Findings of Fact to adjust those to what I just talked about with the two different easements. Is that close enough? Mayor Furlong: Incorporating our comments. Thank you. Councilman McDonald: And incorporating our comments from today. Mayor Furlong: Direction, yep. Is there a second? Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second. Mayor Furlong: Any discussion on this? Mr. Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: I think it’s valuable for us to pay attention, as Mr. McDonald has to the, not just the decision that’s made today but also the decisions to be made by the contractor, the builder and the homeowner and I just commend Councilman McDonald for making sure that we pay attention to that. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other discussion? Hearing none let’s proceed with the vote. Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded that the City Council approve the rezoning of property from Agricultural Estate District (A-2) to Single Family Residential District (RSF); Preliminary Plat with Variances for a neck lot and the construction of a private street; and a Conditional Use Permit to allow development within the Bluff Creek Overlay District, subject to adoption of the amended Findings of Fact which changes references to conservation easement to preservation easement and the following conditions: 1.At the entrance off Hazeltine Boulevard, a monument sign displaying all four address numbers shall be installed. In addition, at the start of the individual driveways to each home, an address sign shall also be installed. Submit proposed signage to Fire Marshal for approval. 2.Park fees shall be collected in full for the two new homes at the rate in force upon final plat submission and approval. 3.Any use of or work within or affecting MnDOT right-of-way requires a permit. Permit forms are available from MnDOT’s utility website at http://www.dot.state.mn.us/utility/. 4.Outlot A and the preservation easement shall be coincidental with the primary zone for the Bluff Creek Overlay District and shall be recorded with the final plat. The primary zone shall extend to a point 18 feet from the northeast corner of Lot 3. 23 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 5.A structure setback of 40 feet is required from the primary zone. No disturbance shall occur within the first 20 feet of the setback. The proposed grading plans shall be amended to show how the lots may be developed. 6.The Bluff Creek Overlay District primary zone and the corresponding setback shall be shown on all plan sheets. 7.Signs clearly demarcating the Bluff Creek Overlay District primary zone shall be installed at all major angle points and at the intersection of lot lines with the primary zone boundary. Site plans shall be amended to show the placement of the signs. This item will be revisited by staff regarding the location of signage. 8.In keeping with the purpose of the Bluff Creek Overlay District to protect natural resources, the proposed driveway for Lot 1 shall share a common drive with Lot 2 until the existing hammerhead. 9.The applicant shall provide drainage calculations for pre-development and post-development conditions. 10.Preservation of natural vegetation shall be allowed as a volume and rate control tool. Water quality best management practices are still required. This shall meet the requirements of the NPDES permit for drainage to an impaired water or NURP plus enhanced treatment, whichever is stricter. 11.SWMP charges shall be reviewed in lieu of in-perpetuity protection of land through a combination of preservation easement and the dedication of Outlot A to the City. 12.Water that now heads west and then south along the trail and away from this area will be directed northwest into the depression north of the shared entrance. An adequate outlet must be provided for this area and the existing drainage patterns must be maintained. 13.Prior to grading, each lot shall install tree protection fencing at the edge of grading limits. 14.Building permit surveys for each lot shall be required to show all inventoried trees within the grading limits and 10 feet beyond and their removal or preservation status. 15.The developer must revise the Existing Conditions plan to show the power pole, utility box, propane tank and shed. 16.Ground shot elevations must be shown on the Existing Conditions plan to verify that a topographic survey was completed. 17.The developer shall work with staff to realign the access to Lot 1. 18.The developer must provide proof that the common portion of the driveway to Lots 1 and 2 meets a 7-ton design. 24 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 19.If the existing driveway does not meet the 7-ton design standard, the developer must install the 7-ton driveway and submit an escrow with the final plat to ensure that the driveway meets this specification. 20.The driveway easement shall be recorded as a separate document; all references to the driveway easement shall be removed from the preliminary plat. 21.The grading plan must be revised so that the grades do not exceed 3H:1V. 22.A permit is required from MnDOT to install the sewer and water services as well as grading in the right-of-way. 23.The City must be notified a minimum of 72 hours before the sewer and water services are to be installed. 24.The sewer and water service connections must be inspected and approved by the City. 25.The developer must submit an escrow for the necessary boulevard restoration associated with the service installation. 26.Lots 1 and 3 will be subject to the City sewer and water hook-up charges and the Metropolitan Council Sanitary Access Charge. These fees shall be collected in accordance with the City Code at the rate in effect at the time. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE FROM SECTION 20-904(A)(1) OF CHANHASSEN CITY CODE TO CONSTRUCT AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IN EXCESS OF 1,000 SQ. FT. ON PROPERTY ZONED AGRICULTURAL ESTATE DISTRICT (A-2); LOCATED AT 760 WEST TH 96 STREET; APPLICANT: CHUCK WORM. Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. This item also appeared before the st Planning Commission on May 21. It did not receive the affirmative vote of three-fourths. It was a 5 to 2 th vote so therefore it automatically goes to you for a recommendation. As you stated it’s 760 West 96 Street. The property had received in the past a conditional use for riding stable so there’s a riding stable on a portion of the property and then a contractor’s business is run out of here and then also some of the th hay is stored in the other building on the site. This is on the end of a, of West 96 Street. The request again is for a variance to construct a 7,120 square foot accessory structure for storage of hay and agricultural equipment. There currently exists on the property a 10,240 square foot accessory building th and an additional 9,960 square foot accessory structure for the total of 20,912. So on May 10, as I stated earlier, in 2004 the City approved an interim use to allow for the riding academy and annually renewable stable permit for continued use of the riding stable so and, then also there is a Chuck’s Excavating in one of the other businesses, the other structure on the site. So oops, going the wrong way. So this is the proposed, this is where some of the contractor’s yard, the riding stable so we had given, the council did give approval for some accessory structures in this area. One was for property that had collapsed. A building that had collapsed and the applicant wanted to modify that for some runoff. The other one the applicant had proposed a storage unit but hadn’t built it on the property. Had kind of graded it and waited 25 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 a few years before he came in so the council did approve that 2,560 square foot accessory structure and then there was one built on the property without a permit. And then there was another one built over, over here for 1,000. That would be off of Homestead Lane. 1,177 so this one is significantly larger than those. So here’s kind of accumulation of some of those in the area of the summary of the square footage in the area. Again this is an agricultural area. There are some of these, and we talked about it in the past have been used for other types of storage. We did say if it’s for agricultural, for horses we had recommended those. I know the applicant has stated that he does do haying and stores some of the hay and provides hay for other people in the area too so our concern was that if some of the contractor’s yard, storage wasn’t in there that maybe there might be additional space in the current building is our rational basis on that. Again the Planning Commission didn’t have the super majority of the three-fourths so this item comes before you so the, we’ll be putting the same motion in to the City Council which was the excess . Denial of the excess of the 1,000 square feet. And with that I’d be happy to answer any questions that you may have. Councilman McDonald: Excuse me, can you go back to the statement you made about if he took some stuff of one of the structures? Kate Aanenson: Yeah, there is a. Councilman McDonald: What’s in there? Kate Aanenson: An excavating business. Councilman McDonald: Okay, so he’s running a business off of this? Kate Aanenson: Back then, when we talked about some of these business, buildings up in here there was businesses. You remember the one that had the collapsed structure. He had a business in there for a while but is no longer using it for that and so when he wanted to rebuild he wanted to use it for storage of antiques and the like so. Mayor Furlong: Okay, questions? Other questions at this point. Councilman Laufenburger: I do. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Kate, looking at this aerial photo you have in front of us, can you tell us how many of those north/south rectangles belong to the applicant? Kate Aanenson: Yes. This one. Councilman Laufenburger: Yep. Kate Aanenson: And this one. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, so it’s the two that are adjacent. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And it’s on the smaller of the, there. That one right there, that the 9,600 is on. 26 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Right. Councilman Laufenburger: What are you, can you tell me what, is that the accumulated square feet of all, what looks to be three structures? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yes. Councilman Laufenburger: Is that right? Okay. Alright. And the other, on the western property, that building is a singular structure of over 10,000 square feet. Kate Aanenson: Correct. And the new one. Councilman Laufenburger: And do we know what’s in that structure? Kate Aanenson: That’s what I was saying. There is some hay in there and it’s our understanding there’s also some equipment in there too. Councilman Laufenburger: Equipment. Farming equipment or excavation equipment? Kate Aanenson: I’ll let the applicant answer that question. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So, and how about the 9,950 square feet in the eastern property, do we know what that is being used for? Kate Aanenson: That’s part of the horse operation. Riding academy. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Okay. And then a home, the home is also on that narrower, right there. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you Kate. Mayor Furlong: Other questions for staff at this time? If not, is Mr. Worm here? If you’d like to address the council. Good evening. Chuck Worm: Good evening. I’m Chuck Worm. I’m here for the, to get hopefully another building possibly built for a variance. I’ve been there since 1987 and we’ve been doing our hay farming even previous before I built the residence at where I live right now. Over the years of course we you know got more equipment and stuff like that and we were making 20,000 bales. Small square bales of hay and now we probably make about 10,000 but now we make probably 300 to 400 round bales which are sized 4 by 6 in size and so we just, we do have a family owned and operated excavating business out of there with my son living on the western edge of Chaska where we do have a conditional use permit for a building out there so with that we do store equipment back and forth. Farm equipment. Excavating equipment at both places. We always for the storage in the past years we rented farm buildings. Two barns just west of me a half mile, well one of them got torn down a couple years ago and the other one is abandoned now and not able to use and we just keep losing these farm buildings for storage and I’ve just got to keep going further away and further away. So I don’t plan to move yet, as of now. If I knew my property was in possible development in the near 3 to 5 years or something I wouldn’t be here for this but I’ve got a neighbor, Tim Erhart which adjacent my property and he at this time doesn’t have no intentions for 27 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 development. So the only way I could develop is if he did so right now I’m just, the equipment we got, the big building on the 8 acre parcel we built to accommodate the equipment and everything that was, I think we built that about 12 years ago but now with losing the barns and all this stuff, it’s tough to find rental place or storage for the hay so. We do rent hay from the Minnesota Arboretum. There’s 86 acres out there and surrounding areas. Chaska, Victoria and Chanhassen here too. I find parcels of hay to make so I’m still doing a fair amount of hay and stuff so but just. Mayor Furlong: How many acres of hay do you farm? Chuck Worm: We probably got probably about 100 acres this year. Mayor Furlong: So 86 at the Arboretum and then another 14. Chuck Worm: 86 yep plus another probably 50, yeah. Mayor Furlong: Okay, so closer to 140-150. Chuck Worm: Yeah. Yeah. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Chuck Worm: And I know they did in the paper here. In the report they compare, you know do a comparison with Gayle Degler which is a farmer nearby me too. Gayle Degler, he makes some hay but he don’t run around and make hay like I do. He does crop farming. He’s got grain bins. Easy storage. It’s a little more, what I do, it takes storage. You know it takes buildings to do it and I don’t, at small square bale of hay just last week at $12.50 a bale, I’m about to store it outside and that’s a big factor too in having quality material. Hay. Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Furlong: Yes, Mr. Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Worm, this property that we’re looking at here. Let’s just call that the western rectangle where that must be where you do your horse academy, right? Chuck Worm: Yeah. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Are you haying any of this property? Chuck Worm: We’re haying just south of that one. Councilman Laufenburger: South of the building. Chuck Worm: Big building, yeah. Councilman Laufenburger: And that hay is stored in the 10,000 square foot building. Chuck Worm: Yes. Councilman Laufenburger: So you’re bringing hay from the other locations, the 86 and the 50 to this location to store it inside. 28 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Chuck Worm: Yes. Councilman Laufenburger: Because you have this as a location to store it right? Chuck Worm: Yeah, because it’s my own. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And the other, I think I’ve seen a Chuck’s Excavating Sign on what used to the Creek Road. Chuck Worm: County Road 10. Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, by the railroad track. Chuck Worm: Yes. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So is there no storage area there? Chuck Worm: I’ve got storage there. I mean one, at the planning board they proposed well take your equipment from my. Councilman Laufenburger: From Chanhassen. Chuck Worm: From Chanhassen and put it in Chaska. And if I bring my equipment from Chaska to Chanhassen, I’m not gaining anything because the buildings are full right now because I can’t find a barn to pile hay in. I’ve got, well one bigger building on the 2 1/2 acre parcel that I fill completely so that, when I do that now in the last couple years, that pushes all my equipment outdoors or somewhere else. Councilman Laufenburger: And this is the farming equipment and the excavating equipment, is that correct? Chuck Worm: Yes. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. That’s all for right now. Mayor Furlong: Other questions for Mr. Worm? Councilman McDonald: Yes. Mayor Furlong: Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Okay, I understand that to do the trade of equipment back and forth really doesn’t gain anybody anything. If you get this structure can you take out the excavating equipment and now move that off of this site down there and this becomes strictly farm? Chuck Worm: I possibly could. It’s basically I mean it’s myself and my two boys that are in, that’s the excavating company. I started it back I think in ’89 or something, or ’90 and it just, my boys just stayed with me and I just continued doing it and it you know just stayed on my property because I do own 10 1/2 acres total. 29 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Councilman McDonald: The reason for my question is that you know down here, as you’re well aware, we have granted some variances in the past year but it’s based upon non-commercial use. Now the land is zoned agricultural and farm and I’m okay with all that but again what I’m looking for is that an excavating business is not agricultural. That is a business. Chuck Worm: It is Jerry. Excuse me. Councilman McDonald: No, that’s fine. Chuck Worm: It is because my Bobcats do all the removal of the manure. I’ve got trucks that haul the material off site to local fields. Farmer fields and things like that so I mean it’s just not that I’m on this property and I’m just an excavator. I’m, my equipment works with my farm a lot so it’s a combined really for me business between the two of them. Councilman McDonald: So you’re telling me they’re so intertwined that it would create a hardship to remove the excavating equipment down to Chaska and just have this for strictly a farm and store your tractors and balers and all that stuff. It just, that doesn’t gain you anything either. Chuck Worm: Not really. I mean it would be, now I’ve got to go back out to my son’s house. Bring the equipment back here to clean my horse yards and things like that and that’s just another truck down the road. Fuel consumption. Time and things like that lost again and time for me is pretty precious. Councilman McDonald: It’s money. How much land are we talking about between the two lots? Between the western and the eastern lot. How much land is all that would you say? Chuck Worm: 10 1/2 or 10 point, yeah. It’s over 10 acres. Councilman McDonald: Okay, you’ve got, now you’ve got the 10,000 foot structure that’s shown here or that’s what you’re going to build? Kate Aanenson: No, that’s existing…just south of that. Mayor Furlong: There’d be additional nine. Chuck Worm: Yeah, what was the square footage? 70. Kate Aanenson: 7,120 is what you’re asking for. Chuck Worm: Okay, and I did have a bump out on that structure off of the 60 by 108. There was a 28 by 30 foot structure on the back of, on the south side and that’s 840 square foot addition on that building I’m proposing. I’m proposing to eliminate that part of the building so I just want to go with a straight 60 by 108 feet and so I’m removing 800. I think it’s 840 square feet. Councilman McDonald: Okay, and then what’s going to happen to your riding business? Does this begin to impact that? Does that get curtailed? Chuck Worm: No. No. Councilman McDonald: Okay. I don’t have any more questions. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger. 30 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Worm, it sounds like you’re, as you were describing the predicament or the circumstance that you’re in, it’s really predicated or caused by these buildings out in Chaska that, not available or wind torn down or whatever it is. Chuck Worm: Yeah. Yeah. Councilman Laufenburger: So the lack of the buildings out there causes you, the solution that you’d like to have is replace those, that lack of buildings with a building in Chanhassen to bring the hay in to put it under roof. Chuck Worm: Under roof, that’s correct. And I know then it’s on my property. Councilman Laufenburger: Isn’t your property out on County Road 10? Chuck Worm: That’s my son. Councilman Laufenburger: Oh, okay. Chuck Worm: That’s my son. Councilman Laufenburger: Does he share in the business with you or not? Chuck Worm: He works for me in my excavating business and they help. We’re all part of this. Councilman Laufenburger: So the machinery goes both ways. Chuck Worm: Exactly. Councilman Laufenburger: The brothers go and the sons go both ways, okay. Chuck Worm: Exactly, yes. Yeah. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah it seems to me that the issue here is the concern that there’s going to be a business run out of the building. Is that Kate what the main concern is? Chuck Worm: No. No. Councilwoman Tjornhom: From, if you’re looking at it from what potentially could go wrong with… Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson, would you like to. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And maybe you know I’m asking… Kate Aanenson: Well I think it’s kind of a slippery slope between the, what you use to, for the horse riding academy, feeding the horses, cleaning up manure, equipment for that and then equipment for the excavating. Some of it kind of cross pollinates. I guess that’s going back to what someone said, what 31 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 equipment can you keep there for the horse operation and not for the other but it sounds like the pieces go both ways. Councilwoman Tjornhom: So the hay storage, it’s not, it’s to use specifically for your riding operation and not, you don’t sell it? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Chuck Worm: We do sell some to. Kate Aanenson: That’s why he needs to store it. He sells it. Chuck Worm: Yeah, yeah. Neighbors and surrounding people usually around us that still have horses. Kate Aanenson: So it comes in and then he stores it and then it goes back out when somebody wants it, right. Chuck Worm: The majority of it usually or yeah, we sell quite a bit and we still feed quite a bit so. Councilwoman Tjornhom: So really there are two businesses that are going on right now on the property? Chuck Worm: Yes. Councilman Laufenburger: Three. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Or maybe three. Excavating. The riding. Councilman Laufenburger: The academy. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yep. Kate Aanenson: And the hay sales. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And so what, I guess what I can’t figure out is what changes with or without the structure because the excavating business will still be there. The riding academy will still be there and it would just be the expansion of a place for you to store your hay. Chuck Worm: Correct. It’s hard to find. It’s hard to find an old dairy barn or something you know within the area. You just drive around and you don’t see dairy barns and hay storage around. Councilwoman Tjornhom: And right now do you store hay on the property? Chuck Worm: On my property? Yes. Yeah. Mayor Furlong: And I’m sorry, is that in the 10,200 something. The north building there. Chuck Worm: That’s on the 2 1/2 acre, the south. The most southern building on that 2 1/2 acre strip. Mayor Furlong: So on the eastern part, that one right there that the arrow is over now? Okay. 32 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Councilwoman Tjornhom: So then what happens to those structures? If they’re not being used to store hay, is that where your excavation equipment will go into or? Chuck Worm: My excavation equipment is in already part and in my son’s building out in Chaska. I mean we, I’m just, it’s all mixed together you know. I mean it’s. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah, no I understand. Chuck Worm: It’s just you know, I can’t run part of my horse, or Sandy’s horse operation you know without some of my equipment to you know for the manure removal and the, and things like that. Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson, or I’m sorry. Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Just a follow up. So the 9,000 square foot building which you currently store hay in, you build the 10,000, will you use both of those? 19,000 square feet for hay then? Chuck Worm: Yes. Councilman McDonald: Okay, and that’s because again storage for hay at other places where you do it is going away and so now it’s either you cut back on your business. Chuck Worm: Exactly. Councilman McDonald: Or find something else to do. Councilman Laufenburger: Or find another place to store the hay. Chuck Worm: It’s always farther out though all the time you know. I don’t plan on moving yet, or at least I don’t want to and I like where I am I guess and it’s, it keeps a lot of little kids happy too so. Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson the Planning Commission voted 5-2 to deny the application for a variance. We’ve got the information in our Minutes but could you summarize the concerns of those who voted to deny what their concerns were. Kate Aanenson: Yeah I guess you know. Mayor Furlong: In general. Kate Aanenson: It was the, he explained at the Planning Commission, correct me if I’m wrong Mr. Worm, is that you have the opportunity to expand your hay making business so that was part of it too. Mayor Furlong: So this is to accommodate an expansion of the hay making business. Kate Aanenson: Right, and it was hard for them to separate the comingling as we’re talking about so some of the equipment clearly you need to keep on the site to, for the riding stables and the hay. To load the hay onto the trucks to ship off to somebody else so it’s kind of hard getting the equipment so they kind of felt like really it’s an expansion. While it is agricultural in some respects, it kind of crosses over to a lot of different. It was kind of hard to figure all that out. That’s my understanding of what their concern was. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Mr. Worm how would you or what’s your response to those concerns? 33 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Chuck Worm: To what the planning board had said? Mayor Furlong: Yeah. Chuck Worm: I don’t think they quite understood my situation. I don’t know, remember her name but it seemed like she was asking kind of like well how big is a bale of hay or this or that and kind of like what a bale of hay was to me but you know, I think that, I just think that they maybe I didn’t speak enough about the total situation maybe like I have to you now. That maybe they didn’t quite understand you know my situation. Mayor Furlong: Well, okay and I appreciate that. I think you know one of the concerns that I, from the staff report and Minutes too is this issue of the excavation business and the potential expansion of the excavation business into the new facility or into the existing facilities. If you take hay out of your existing buildings. The one on the eastern property and move it over to the new one then your excavation business expands. I think that’s a concern raised by staff and others. Chuck Worm: Well my excavation, I mean it’s my two boys and myself and that’s the way it’s been for, I think I’ve been doing it 14 years and I don’t plan to expand there. If I, you know I just, I’ve got enough. It’s enough with just my two boys and myself and I don’t plan that. I’d rather expand my farm is what I’d like to do more yet but. Councilman Laufenburger: Your farm being? Chuck Worm: Just my 10 1/2 acres. Councilman Laufenburger: Oh your 10 1/2 acres. Chuck Worm: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Councilman Laufenburger: How would you do that? Chuck Worm: How would I? Councilman Laufenburger: How would you expand that farm? Are you thinking of like develop, moving it or buying land around that 10? Chuck Worm: It’d be nice to buy Tim Erhart’s but I can’t. Councilman Laufenburger: I think he’s selling. Chuck Worm: Yeah I don’t think I could afford it. You know as long as I can stay where I am, I just see, th I don’t see possibly any development myself in my area down West 96 Street for I’m guessing 10 years. And if I can make it another 10 years with our haying equipment, or our haying operation. Sandy’s Riding Academy and stuff like that and I like the location where I am and I got, I’ve never had a complaint of all the neighbors going down that road before. I don’t think anybody ever called the City on us about, if it’s hay equipment or construction equipment. We drive slow. We respect everybody going down the road so yeah, in the future yeah I’d probably pick up sticks if my land went for development and move out west. 34 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson, have we received any, has the City received concerns or complaints from the neighborhood with regard to the. Kate Aanenson: Not in the recent. There was in the past of some erosion and the like but I think that’s been a while. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Todd Gerhardt: Mr. Worm, can you talk about your conditional use permit that you have in Chaska? What’s that you allow you to do? Chuck Worm: That allows me to store my excavating equipment on that property. Todd Gerhardt: Okay. Usually they limit it to a number of dump trucks, Bobcats, graders, backhoes. Did they do that to you? Chuck Worm: No, they limited us on the, pretty much the size of the building. Todd Gerhardt: Okay. So everything has to be inside? Chuck Worm: Pretty much, yeah. And we’ve got nothing outside that structure. Todd Gerhardt: So you don’t have any haying equipment in Chaska? Chuck Worm: Yeah I do. Todd Gerhardt: You do. What I hear the council talking about is that, you know maybe if you moved your excavating business to the Chaska location short of maybe one Bobcat, a dump truck that you need for removal of manure and you know moving hay around and kept the haying operation as an agricultural use at this location, I think that would give them something to hang their hat on. Chuck Worm: I think that’s, I think a pretty good possibility of what I would do if I, if we can manage to get this building built and then I could yeah, like you say. Most of my haying equipment and farming equipment at my Chanhassen residence and then move more of my construction equipment out on the Chaska property so yeah, but I can’t totally eliminate it you know, and I think you guys, you know understand that because I do have the use for my trucks and Bobcats and other smaller grading things and stuff. Mayor Furlong: How much reduction do you think you’d make in terms of your excavating equipment? Chuck Worm: I probably could make 50% maybe of what I you know have right now at my residence to move out to Chaska. I could do that. Mayor Furlong: And then the agricultural equipment might come here. Chuck Worm: Then my ag, yeah. Then it would have to because of course I don’t have, wouldn’t have the room. Mayor Furlong: Right but. Chuck Worm: But yes. 35 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Mayor Furlong: But ag use is permitted with the property here. Chuck Worm: Yeah, okay. Yep. Mayor Furlong: Right? Chuck Worm: Yep. Mayor Furlong: So if I understand correctly. Todd Gerhardt: But I’d need clarification from either the City Attorney or our Planning Director but. Councilman McDonald: If I could before you do. I mean that is the point I was trying to get at with all of this and if I understood you correctly what you were telling me was that the 9,000 square foot building would continue to be used for hay storage along with this new building because again it’s not that you’re expanding the hay business. It’s that storage has disappeared and you now need a place to do it. It’s not that you’re going to expand the excavation business by bringing stuff from Chaska over to Chanhassen. Chuck Worm: Right. Councilman McDonald: And that’s what I’m asking you is my understanding correct there? Mayor Furlong: But I think Mr. McDonald the other thing I heard Mr. Gerhardt ask is it sounds like there’s an opportunity with this additional building to move some of the excavating equipment to Chaska, where it’s permitted and have the agricultural equipment or use equipment here and I guess my question is Ms. Aanenson is that, is that an appropriate? Kate Aanenson: It’s zoned agricultural so you can have an accessory structure. It’s how you’re using it for the business that’s the issue. Mayor Furlong: And by business I mean I think as we’ve, what I’m seeing is there are 3 businesses. The excavation business, which I think is non-agricultural related. Kate Aanenson: Which is not permitted, correct. Mayor Furlong: Which is not permitted. The horse riding. Kate Aanenson: Which has a conditional use which is permitted. Mayor Furlong: Which is permitted. And then the hay business. Kate Aanenson: Right. Mayor Furlong: Which is agricultural, correct? So that would be permitted? I’m sorry. Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Furlong: Okay. So Mr. Knutson, thoughts? 36 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Roger Knutson: What you could do if you chose to, I’m putting words in your mouth, you could say you approve this variance for example for this new building conditioned upon the following. No more than X square feet of a building you would designate, I don’t know the number of it or whatever it is, can be used for the storage of excavation equipment. And the only equipment that can be on site, that is called dual purpose are the following. And then you can, one Bobcat. Two Bobcats. Dump truck. Mayor Furlong: Itemize dual purpose equipment. Roger Knutson: Then you would condition the approval of the variance on that happening and then he can build a new building when that has occurred. Kate Aanenson: If I may Mayor, I did just in case you did move in this direction. So taking off on what the City Attorney put in place, the building may be approved for agricultural. Then I think we can further clarify condition number 1 on that and then specify, if you want to go by square footage or pieces or equipment only for agricultural so we would further modify that to state whether it’s, how much. Mayor Furlong: Expand condition one to, as recommended by the attorney. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, how many pieces of equipment or how much square footage. Mayor Furlong: And obviously working with Mr. Worm to figure out what’s appropriate there. Just a second, Ms. Aanenson were you finished? Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: If you go and look at the picture and you see the other lots, his neighbors, I mean are they held to those same conditions or are we doing something? Kate Aanenson: Yes. I think, no we said the other ones could not have businesses and he can have his business. There are some things that he needs to run the riding stables that he needs the hay for. That he needs the equipment for so we, I think we acknowledge that that needs to happen for the hay business. He needs the equipment. That’s what we need to find out. What pieces of equipment he needs to, for the trucks to travel back and forth with hay so that’s what we would clearly identify. That would be the pieces that would be allowed under number one so we’d identify that. Mayor Furlong: Well and I think what Mr. Knutson was also talking about was, was also recognizing that there is some storage for the excavation equipment. Kate Aanenson: Well that’s what I’m saying, yeah. Roger Knutson: Well I call it dual use equipment. Kate Aanenson: Dual use. Right, the uses that you need for that. Then we would say also, because a building permit would be required, that’s the ordinance and then maintain existing drainage patterns because we’ve looked at where that site is going to go and we may need a retaining wall for a portion of that building and then also if I heard you Mr. Worm, you dropped that building down to 6,480 square feet, is that correct? Chuck Worm: Yeah, that south part was. Kate Aanenson: If you go by the 60 by 104. Mayor Furlong: 108. 37 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Kate Aanenson: 108, excuse me. So that came out to 6,480 would be the square footage as opposed to the 4,120. Roger Knutson: Just pointing out there are already several buildings so you want to refer to all the buildings. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Roger Knutson: None of the buildings can be used for anything but storage of hay or the horses or the dual use equipment and that’s limited to X square feet and certain listed equipment. Mayor Furlong: Does this seem a reasonable approach Mr. Worm? Chuck Worm: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: Okay. What I would suggest then, Mr. Gerhardt? Todd Gerhardt: I was only going to suggest that maybe we could table this. Sit down with Mr. Worm. We’re kind of rushing to put this all together. Let’s make sure that he feels comfortable and put an agreement together that he can live by. We can live by and just have some time to say, you know what piece of equipment is going where and what’s staying. Mayor Furlong: Absolutely. And we’re not going to create that list tonight. th Todd Gerhardt: Bring it back on the 24. Councilman McDonald: Then in that case I’d make a motion to table. Mayor Furlong: With direction for staff to work with Mr. Worm. th Councilman McDonald: With direction for staff to work and bring it back on the 24. Chuck Worm: Okay. th Mayor Furlong: And well the 24 be happy to have it back, I would say bring it back as soon as it’s ready. Kate Aanenson: Yep. Councilman Laufenburger: Is there any discussion? th Mayor Furlong: Rather than designating the 24. Councilman McDonald: Well I thought that was our next council meeting. Mayor Furlong: It is and if we can get it back that quickly that’s great. If it’s not ready then let’s bring it back when it’s ready. Okay, motion’s been made to table. Mr. Laufenburger? Councilman Laufenburger: Is that discussable? Oh you need a second first. 38 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Mayor Furlong: I need a second. It’s generally not discussable. So Mr. McDonald, do you want to withdraw your motion for the moment? Councilman McDonald: I’ll withdraw my motion. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Mr. Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, thank you Mr. Mayor. I appreciate Mr. Worm’s willingness to dialogue on this but there is something that’s occurring here that does concern me a little bit. This is a unique area of Chanhassen and by adding 6,480 square feet of storage, and is that a two story building? Whatever it is. Chuck Worm: Single story. Councilman Laufenburger: How many bales, no. But what we’re doing is we’re increasing the usage in that area. We’re increasing, more hay will come in. More hay will go out and that is a, you know this is th 96 Street. We’re improving Highway 101 down there. It’s becoming more of a residential and over time my guess is it will be even greater residential. Maybe there will be a time in the future when it will not be approved for agriculture and we just need to think about is it the right thing to increase the use of this property, this 10 1/2 acres to bring in more storage. He’s already at, what’s the square footage? 20,000 square feet. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, he’s at 20,000 square feet. This will take him up to 27,000 square feet. He will have more accessory space on there. He’ll have twice as much accessory space on that property as is on any other property down there. I think I’m saying that correctly, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Councilman Laufenburger: So I’m not opposed to the dialogue but what we’re setting ourselves up for here is additional storage and, with all respect for Mr. Worm, is it cheaper for him to build a 6,480 square foot building here in Chanhassen and transport that hay from Arboretum and from County Road 10 or is it, might it be worthwhile for him to explore building a 6,480 square foot building in conjunction with somebody who already has property out there where the hay is so I just, that’s my only point Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Mayor Furlong: No, and I appreciate those thoughts. Councilman McDonald: Well if I could address that. I mean what I’m looking at is, and I can take, I’m only taking Mr. Worm at his word in that he has already looked for something such as that and in order to find it he’s got to go further west so that places a hardship upon his business. To address the issues about what are we doing down in this area. We’re intensifying a business, it’s already zoned for agricultural use. At some point, as Mr. Worm has stated, that is going to change and when that change is, he is probably going to have to leave, and he recognizes that and that’s going to impact that entire area because once those lots start to go, because of the size of them, that’s probably the next development within the city. That’s going to be one of the prime areas so it will happen. Until it happens I think what he’s asking us to do is that he has a business. He has a hardship and he’s come to us to address an issue so he can continue with his business and based upon all that, I would think that you know the council should be looking to help it’s citizens where it can. 39 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Councilman Laufenburger: I’m not suggesting Mr. McDonald that we shouldn’t help him but there are other alternatives for him continuing his business. Kate, are those two buildings, or the 20,000 square feet, are they legally non-conforming? Or is the. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. That’s correct. Councilman Laufenburger: So the amount in excess of 1,000 square feet, which the ordinance allows, those are legally non-conforming. Kate Aanenson: Correct, and I just want to go back. I know this area is unique but I just want to go back and talk about why we put that cap in place because once you get a building this size, even though the neighborhood has changed, there’s said value in having an opportunity like this inside an urban setting that they don’t go away because nobody, it’s an opportunity to store boats or do other businesses. Whether it’s a haying operation or becomes something else so we’re just saying long term wise Mr. Worm may leave. Councilman Laufenburger: But those buildings will be there. Kate Aanenson: May not because they have a value of some sort. Todd Gerhardt: Council, the one point to that is that it is for agricultural purposes is the key to that agreement. So Mr. Worm has to be put on notice that the only thing that that building can be used for is agricultural purpose. Mayor Furlong: And I think that’s, that’s the benefit here and Mr. Worm’s accommodation to delineate the use of the buildings and the equipment, the dual purpose equipment and for agricultural purposes so that in the future if there is a change of ownership in the property, I’m assuming that those requirements would go along with the property. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: As a part of that agreement so anybody buying the property would know that it’s use is for agriculture. Kate Aanenson: Right, or they come back and ask for relief, yeah. Mayor Furlong: Well and then at least the council at that time can evaluate the request but I think you know both in terms of, if I can speak for a little bit of why I think we may, I would support a motion to table going forward is there’s been stated by Mr. Worm to reduce the request for the size of the variance, or the increase of the variance with his new building and his willingness to work with the City to enter into an agreement to identify and what I’m hearing here, willingness to reduce the excavating business on the two combined properties and emphasize the agricultural business and also what’s not allowed in that area which is the agricultural business being more consistent with the current zoning so you raise good points Mr. Laufenburger. I think there’s some, I think with Mr. Worm’s proposals here to accommodate, I think that gives everybody a better, clearer understanding of what we’re doing so… Councilman Laufenburger: Well let me restate again what I thought I said right in the beginning, and Nann will attest to this in the Minutes but I did, I did appreciate that Mr. Worm is willing to have that dialogue. Mayor Furlong: Absolutely. 40 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Councilman Laufenburger: Because I think that speaks to, that speaks to his desire to remain in this community which is worthwhile. Mayor Furlong: Absolutely. No, I heard that as well so. Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you. Mayor Furlong: Is there any discussion on the direction that’s being proposed here? To table this to a future meeting, hopefully as quickly as our next meeting where this can come back after staff and Mr. Worm have had an opportunity to work through it. If there’s no other discussion in that direction, Mr. McDonald would you like to restate your motion? Councilman McDonald: Well I’ll restate my motion to table based upon conversation that we’ve had at this point because I would like all those points to be taken into consideration and that Mr. Worm work with staff again to put together a plan which meets the direction that the council has given. That what we do is intensify the allowed use and try to de-emphasize the unallowed use which is the excavating business but a recognition be made that again there is dual use equipment and that’s part of the conversation. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second to that motion? Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second. Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded to table. Generally non-discussable. Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded that the City Council table the request for a variance from Section 20-904(a)(1) of Chanhassen City Code to construct an accessory th structure in excess of 1,000 square feet at 760 West 96 Street and direct staff to work with Mr. Worm, taking into account all comments made by council, in bringing back an agreement as soon as possible. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. Mayor Furlong: Thank you Mr. Worm, Ms. Aanenson, Mr. Gerhardt. Mr. Knutson as well, thank you. APPOINTMENT OF YOUTH COMMISSIONERS TO THE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION. Mayor Furlong: Earlier this evening the City Council had the pleasure of interviewing two applicants for our Park and Rec Commission. As I call them up here, Jacob Stolar and Ryan Lynch. Both did excellent jobs as they met with the council and talked about their desire and willingness and enthusiasm to serve, as youth representatives on the Park and Recreation Commission. Following their interviews we had discussion and I would certainly move to nominate both Jacob Stolar and Ryan Lynch to serve as youth commissioners on the Park and Recreation Commission and ask for a second. Councilman Laufenburger: Second. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any discussion on either of these two young gentleman? Very impressive and appreciate their willingness and desire to serve and they both did a great job tonight in front of the council so. This is actually, these are new positions that the council has added to our Park and Recreation Commission for youth representation and we look forward to both Jacob and Ryan serving in that 41 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 capacity so with that, if there’s no other discussion, motion’s been made and seconded to approve Jacob Stolar and Ryan Lynch to the Park and Recreation Commission. Mayor Furlong moved, Councilman Laufenburger seconded to appoint Jacob Stolar and Ryan Lynch to the Park and Recreation Commission. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS. Councilman McDonald: I have one, if I can go up to the podium so I can put this up on the TV. Thank you for doing that Kate. I appreciate it. What I wanted to do was just to kind of tell everybody that this Thursday night the downtown council Buy Chanhassen has put together what they consider to be their first annual Night on the Town and what this is, it’s an opportunity to try to do something. Again we always talk about economic development with our downtown business district. This is an attempt of a council to try to begin to pull this stuff together. This is the first annual so it’s still baby steps that are going forward but this came together rather quickly and what I would, all I’m asking is that everyone consider it and there should be music and hopefully the weather will cooperate and it would be a nice night if nothing else to just walk around the town. With that thank you. Mayor Furlong: And that’s this coming Thursday? Councilman McDonald: This coming Thursday. 4:30. Mayor Furlong: 4:00 to 10:30 it says. Councilman McDonald: 4:00 to 10:30. Mayor Furlong: Right there, alright. Very good, thank you. And is there, I believe that evening is also our first Concert in the Park, is that correct Mr. Gerhardt? Todd Gerhardt: Yes it is. Mayor Furlong: Concert in the Park that evening as well. Councilman McDonald: That is included as part of it. Mayor Furlong: 7:00? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Thank you Mr. McDonald. Other council presentations? I’d just like to make a comment. Yesterday all of us were present at the dedication for the Al Klingelhutz Memorial Picnic Pavilion at Lake Ann. It was just a great event. I’d just like to thank the Klingelhutz family for their participation there in the program and the Historical Society, Chanhassen Historical Society and also city staff for their great work in planning, preparing and participating in the event so. Unfortunately the weather didn’t cooperate but it was, fun was had by all and it was great to see so many good people there enjoying and talking about stories of Al and his service and other antics as well so thank you to everybody involved with that. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. 42 Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2013 Todd Gerhardt: I don’t have anything this evening. Road construction is down you know with the rainy weather we’re delayed on 101. They’re doing some utility work up on Pleasant View so we have moved a little dirt up there but the mill and overlays, they started milling in the Greenwood Shores area so we are getting to do some work that, you know with the wet weather but we’d like to be a little farther along than what we are so. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Gerhardt or his staff? Hearing none we’ll move on. CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION. Mayor Furlong: Any discussions on the items included there? Mr. Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah just one. I think great, great bravo Zulu goes to our Park and th Recreation Commission for the Chanhassen 4 of July celebration beating two you know paramount festivities and this takes nothing away from Nickle Dickle Day or Victoria’s Volksfest. They’re very, very good but the Chanhassen Fourth of July festival is the cat’s pajamas as far as I’m concerned so thanks to the Park and Recreation for making that in conjunction with Rotary and Southwest Chamber of Commerce. It really is a community event and I just kudos to those folks for that recognition. Suitable for framing I’d say. Mayor Furlong: I think it is upstairs. Councilman Laufenburger: Oh, okay. Mayor Furlong: As a matter of fact. Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other comments on the correspondence packet? If not, if there’s nothing else to come before the council this evening, is there a motion to adjourn? Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. The City Council meeting was adjourned at 8:50 p.m. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 43