2f. Access & Initial Dev Plan, Herman Field Park CITYOF
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690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
1 1. (612) 937-1900 • FAX (612) 937-5739 M=` `• - -.--,,..
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MEMORANDUM L .02.-5-90 _
TO: Park and Recreation Commission
1 FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Coordinator DE:, F.
DATE: January 17, 1991
ISUBJ: Herman Field Park Access and Initial Development Plan
IIThis item was last addressed by the Commission on April 24, 1990.
At that meeting, the Commission authorized staff to have the
I property appraisals prepared and to enter into negotiations with
the property owners for acquisition of an easement allowing access
to the park. As this process was beginning, the City received a
request from a group of residents in the area to vacate portions of
1
Forest Avenue and Oriole Avenue. The City Council addressed this
request at two Council meetings and approved a revised version of
this request on November 5, 1990. A copy of the report presented
1 that evening by Jo Ann Olsen; Senior Planner, is attached.
Two important conditions pertaining to the development of Herman
1 Field were included as conditions of approval for this request,
i.e. 1) the provision of a 40 foot easement across the westerly
lot line of Marcia Will Schiferle's property to provide access to
Herman Field Park, and 2) the retention of the Oriole Lane right-
1 of-way to protect existing storm sewer and to provide future trail
access to the park. The easement and road vacation documents will
be prepared, signed and recorded within the next few weeks
1 (Attachment #2) .
With the issue of access to the park now solved, we can move
I forward with initial park development. A master park plan for
Herman Field Park was developed and approved by the Commission and
area residents in 1989 and was revised in 1990 (Attachment #3) .
Additional information was collected through a survey conducted by
1 volunteers addressing the desires of the area residents in relation
to the development of the park. The extent of work which can be
completed this spring is only limited by the constraints of the
1 $50, 000 budgeted for development in 1991.
The residents in this area have been invited to the January 22nd
IImeeting to allow staff and the Commission to address any remaining
1
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11 Herman Field Park
January 17, 1991
' Page 2
questions they have concerning the development of Herman Field
Park. Hearing these and with the approval of the Commission, staff
will then present this item to the City Council for their comment
and approval. Plans and specifications will then be developed and
brought back to the City Council and advertisement for bids will
follow. At present, it is anticipated that construction can begin
in May or June of 1991.
Park and Recreation Commission Action (1-22-91) : Lash moved,
Pemrick seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend
that the City Council approve the necessary arrangements for
construction of the access road to Herman Field Park to be
constructed in the spring/summer of 1991. All voted in favor and
the motion carried unanimously.
Recommendation: The grant of permanent easement in this matter has
been received and arrangements have been made to have Mr. & Mrs.
Schiferli sign the agreement. It is recommended that contingent
upon receiving these signatures and after recording this document
with Carver County, the City Council authorize the preparation of
plans and specifications for the Berman Field Park access road and
initial development project.
I
I
1
I
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
January 22 , 1991 - Page 14
ready to make a motion that we , do you want to look for an amendment to the ll
Plan now or do you want to come up with a way of wording it yourself or
what do you think we should do? ,
Hoffman: Yeah , I don 't believe at this time we need to go to an amendment
of the Comprehensive Plan . We have 10 years to amend that piece of work
and we can certainly start the discussion and move forward with staff
discussion and discussion with the Manager and the Council and the Planning
Commission members and the input from other people out there prior to
starting those types of actions. '
Schroers: That 's exactly what I was thinking . If you could start the
research on it into some of the funding and to see how actually realistic II
it was , there would always be time to amend the Comprehensive Plan and to
look for areas so I think if the funding is available , that will make it an
awful lot easier to find a suitable area . I think it 's very interesting .
I certainly wouldn't be opposed to seeing a golf course come in the city
and be anxious to see how this develops .
Hoffman: Okay . Again , no motion is necessary .
Schroers: Okay . Then if there 's nothing further on that , then I 'd like to
move along to item 7 on the agenda . I
HERMAN FIELD PARK ACCESS AND INITIAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
Public Present: I
Name Address
Tom Schoenecker 2820 Sandpiper Trail I
Betty Lang 2631 Forest Avenue
Hoffman: Herman Field Park access and initial development plan . I believe "
we have both of you here for that item? Yep. And we also have , many of
you can see Scott here in the audience . You all know him but I 'd also like
to introduce Bruce Chamberlain. New person with the firm of Van Doren,
Hazard and Stallings so he 'll be working with , he works with Scott and
works with Mark Koegler so we have those people now as well and Dick Wing
as well is in the audience from the Council . This item as the report
states , has been talked about and re-talked about over the past 8 to 10
years and then the past 3 years , some intensive study work has been done to
begin the process of developing the 11 acre Herman Field Park which was
initially donated to the City along with $30,000.00 to develop that . Last II
March I believe it was when the Minutes are in here . Last April was the
last time the Commission discussed this item . At that time we were still
wrestling with the issue of access through an easement . The Commission
left it that evening with staff to go ahead and investigate the need to
purchase or acquire easements. Just during the initial stages of that
process when we were taking a look at that , a road vacation request , as
noted in the report , resurfaced and through that opportunity of vacating
that portion of Forest Avenue , we were able to acquire that easement as a
trade-off so we did not have to go ahead and purchase that easement . That
was just a windfall action of that Forest Avenue/Oriole Lane vacation '
request that came through so as stated in the report there , the two
II Park and Rec Commission Meeting
January 22 , 1991 - Page 15
IIconditions of approval for that vacation were the 40 foot easement for the
gravel trail or gravel road access to Herman Field Park and then as well to
maintain the easement off of Oriole coming down into the northeast corner
I of Herman Field Park to maintain a viable way to get a trail into that
park . That approval of the vacation was , and with those conditions was
then granted in November of 1990 by the City Council . Previously we have
I talked about the park plan or the master park plan in the year '88
I believe in the forefront . The master park plan with the design of the
park . What facilities did the Commission and the residents in that area ,
I would they like to see in the park through neighborhood involvement . Having
those residents down to these meetings and with commission support , a
master park plan was developed . That was revised again in I believe it was
1990 and so we have all the components in hand to go ahead and start
I initial development . We did go ahead and budget $50 ,000 .00 for this first
phase of development . That was approved by the City Council so along with ,
we have the dollars available . We have the means of gaining access finally
I to Herman Field Park and we have in hand a master park plan . The
direction I 'm looking for tonight is we did send the notification out to
the residents to have them down to answer any last questions they had prior
to going out and taking a look at acquiring bids or specifications and
I
plans for this project and then eventually taking those to the City Council
for their . approval and going out for bid within the next 2 months .
Comments from the commission . -
ILash: How much of this do you think we can get for $50 ,000 .00?
. ' Hoffman: The most recent estimate we had was $31 ,000.00 to have the- access
road put in . That 's about a year old so it will be in the neighborhood of ,
guessing $35 ,000 .00 plus to have the access road put in and then we 're left
with $10 ,000 .00--$12 ,000 .00 for park development .
ISchroers: The development of Phase 1 consisted of very little besides
mowing what would be a couple of trail areas for nature walking and we were
I going to put in some , an active use , open space with some picnic tables and
how much grading were we going to be doing? Were we going to do any
grading on Phase 1?
I Hoffman: As long as the contractor is there doing the road project , it
would be favorable to go ahead and do the grading portion to whatever
extent is necessary in that active area of the park to level that area out
I so it can be seeded and mature into turf prior to being used as a ballfield
or an open space area .
II Schroers: We 're not going to get too far with grading on $10,000 .00 or
$12 ,000 .00 are we?
I Hoffman: No . The $50,000.00 is increased $20,000.00 from the $30,000.00
which was originally donated but again this will be a multi year project .
We 'll have to come back with some more dollars in 1992 to potentially put
in the totlot or finish other things inside the park so again we 're in the
II initial cost estimates but the $50 ,000 .00 is not going to create
everybody's vision of what they want to see that park be in this first
year .
IILash: So we could get the access road and maybe an open play area?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
January 22 , 1991 - Page 16
Hoffman: Yes . 11
Lash: We can put a couple of picnic tables in there . Maybe a grill .
Garbage can .
Hoffman: Yeah . Obviously as we 've seen in other parks, once you go in and
you start construction that first year , it 's not a real beautiful place to II
go ahead and take a look at anyways . It 's a bare dirt field and so we need
to get in there and do the seeding and grooming . The vision is on this
park to , about 20% or thereof is going to be groomed or maintained . Mowed '
so there is an active area , a pleasant area to go and visit and picnic and
take your children in and that type of thing. Then as 'well there will be
the mowed trails through the natural area taking into concern the location
adjacent to wetlands and those types of things so it will be , in the next
coming years we 'll have to set aside some additional dollars if it 's
available to acquire those other facilities.
Schroers: Does staff have any feeling as to whether all of the excess that!!
there is from the entrance road be used on grading or did we want to get a
portion of the park useable as far as not an active area but just something!'
that can be used for a passive use?
Hoffman: The trails . Getting the trail component in , cleared , grubbed out -
would be a high priority and if that could be at all fit into Phase 1 , that'll
would be a good component to include in that . Other than that you know the
cost estimates at this time are so vague that I can't forecast what other
things we could go ahead and put in there . But again, as long as the 11 contractor is there doing the grading right up to that area , until we have
a grading plan and some estimates on how much dirt we're going to have to
actually move , I can 't give you an estimate . A dollar figure but as long '
as- they 're there , it 's much easier for them to complete that project at
that time . Bringing in a contractor or we can possibly take a look at , if
we can 't feasibly get that done on the money we have this year , that next
spring we could do it with our own crew or even later on this fall by II renting equipment and then having the City maintenance personnel do that
grading work themselves .
•
Koubsky: Did the residents express a similar way that they 'd like to see I
it moved forward with the extra money?
Hoffman: Obviously they 've expressed, they'd like to see it developed and II
turn into the park that it 's going to be eventually . However the access
road is the first thing we need to do . After that they 've expressed
interest in the play area and in the trails so they can have a destination II
for a walking area as well .
Lash: I know there was a concern. . .Lang regarding some kind of a gate
system . Is that something that we 'll be able to?
Hoffman: Taking a look at the system , I have talked to another resident
today on the phone on that same issue and the situation being , we have
gates at some other parks within the City. Lake Ann Park for one which is ,
it 's not closed and opened every day because we do not have a personnel
component on hand that can do that . We do not have our own police force .
You know we contract with the Carver County people who , if you ask them to II
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
January 22 , 1991 - Page 17
do it will do that when gate're available . So even though the ate is
Y 9
there , we do not have the personnel to open it and close it at 10:00 p .m .
and 6:00 a .m . every morning so my recommendation would be to leave the gate
out of the initial phase and if it becomes a situation where we do need to
solve some type of entry problem to the park , to go ahead and add it . A
gate system . Our park maintenance people can build those but then we also
have to wrestle with the situation of who's going to open and close it .
Schroers: Also a gate doesn 't do a whole lot of good without a fence and
fencing is very expensive and what gates and fence do is keep the
non-troublesome type of people out but the people that are going to go in
the area to cause a problem really aren 't going to be deterred by a gate or
a fence . If they want to get, in , they 'll get in . Is there any other
comment or questions on the commission before we open it up to the
audience? Okay then , at this time . . .
Tom Schoenecker : My name is Tom Schoenecker and I live at 2820 Sandpiper
Trail which is a block away from Herman Field . I was on this Commission
for about 5 years about 5 years ago when all of this started to take place
and about 4 years ago the land across the street from our house and
adjacent to Herman Field, land that was always owned by Randy Herman was
developed . The people in the neighborhood at that time thought that was
part of the park plan . . . At the time I was on the Commission and we did
get this commission to ask the City Council to make the developer provide
an easement to that property through the park for our neighborhood. I do
know that that easement was written into the contract for development of
the property . However , I don't see anything in the neighborhood that looks
like an easement . The houses are so close together , I don't know how there
could be an easement for park access through there but I believe it is in
there and I would ask this commission to investigate that and develop that
easement from our neighborhood into that park . The people in the
Minnewashta Manor area would have to go about maybe 5 or 6 blocks to walk
into the park if they had to go around where just an easement through the
new development would just be a matter of walking . . .
Schroers: Are you asking for a pedestrian easement?
Tom Schoenecker : Just a pedestrian easement , yes .
Lash: Is that off a cul-de-sac?
Tom Schoenecker : It 's off a cul-de-sac . The new cul-de-sac going up .
( The quality of the recording was very poor at this point in the meeting
and was not picking up the discussion very well . )
Schroers: We've gone and looked at that and talked to residents in the
area and their general feeling was something that didn't necessarily have
to be formally developed by people in that area because they just wanted to
access the park . . .
Tom Schoenecker : The thing that I 'm concerned with basically is the
indication of where that easement is . Right now who knows where it is and
we should have some way of indicating to the people in the neighborhood
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting I
January 22 , 1991 - Page 18
that is an easement . That it is an easement and that we do have access
that way .
Pemrick: There wouldn't be any way without . . .
Hoffman: Correct . In addressing the , not developing it per se but just
allowing people to use that area , the hill there would have to have some
development . If you wanted to make use of that easement and you took a
connection off of one of the trail loops on the west side of the park and
extended that to the base of the hill , you then would have to literally II build steps to bring the back yard of this person and if you 've gone that
far , you almost may as well continue that trailway so it is designated .
The easement is there between the two homes which are right at the end of
the cul-de-sac . I believe about 2 years back that a portion of the
commission did go out and visit the Piper Ridge development to take a look
at that area . To speak to the neighbors and obviously the two adjoining II neighbors would not like to voice their opinion against that development
. . .easement . It 's a . . .small area inbetween those two homes so it would be
fairly tight through there.
Andrews: Have we had that surveyed . . . '
Hoffman: Yeah . It 's platted .
Lash: . . .and it would be very close to a home .
Schroers: The houses are close together and if the easement is in the
middle between the two houses , it would affect both of the property
owners . . .public access to the park there and I think that they would offer
a lot of resistance . '
Hoffman: It is one of the questions which is on the survey which the
Friends of Herman Field went ahead and took of the neighborhood and you 'll
see both responded in both ways on that . That many of the people would.
like to see it and others didn't care either way .
Andrews: I 've got a comment here . We're talking about two property owners!'
that are . . .the question is , I think the easement was put there for the use
of a neighborhood , I think that the comment about if it was designated
I think the people , if it 's going to be used , would feel comfortable using I
it and not be concerned about being challenged by a property owner that
they 're not on their property . And also as time goes by and ownership
changes the property, some of these battles on what the easement . . .or what II used to be an easement becomes a bigger and bigger issue . I think if the
easement is there and it is City property , even if we don't develop it , I
think it should at least be staked so if a person decides to walk down that
hill , they are comfortable knowing that they 're not on somebody 's private '
property and nor would the private property owner feel like they 're having
their property trespassed on.
Tom Schoenecker : That would be my concern is that as the neighborhood, or I
as a neighbor there , I walk that area quite a bit . I walk around right
now . Well I would like to walk through but I don't know where it is and
I 'd be afraid of going on somebody's private property and being kicked off II
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
January 22 , 1991 - Page 19
so if there was an area that was designated someway of staking or something
just so I could go through .
Lash: If we have , if and when we have . . .
Tom Schoenecker : Would it be possible just to send a letter and one of
these site plan to the neighbors there and designate where that easement is
so we would know where it was? Would it be possible to get something like
that?
' Hoffman: It certainly is but I would be somewhat tentative just inviting
the neighborhood to use an easement because it just is there . Just because
' it exists . I would be more comfortable with inviting the neighborhood to
use the access that park if it was maintained or developed or marked in
some manner . If we want to promote the use of it , then we should go ahead
and take the responsibility for marking it and making it known to not only
the neighborhood but all the public that would use that park as that is a
viable means of gaining access from that cul-de-sac to the park .
' Schroers: I think it would be reasonable to include pedestrian access . . .
development .
Andrews: I think you 're missing the point here . We 're not talking about
developing a trail . I didn't write your name down but if a citizen would
like to use an easement which already exists , they have a right to do so
I understand it . What we 're asking for is just for now is where that
easement is . To say that we don't want somebody to use an easement that 's
there , then I guess would imply that the easement should be vacated :
' Schroers: No .
Andrews: Development is a separate issue .
Schroers: . . .City Engineer just place the stakes for marking purposes .
I know they came through where I live and cut some trees and other things
to mark where some manholes were . . .and that was on the end of the easement .
Lash: I can 't understand why , from looking at it , why anybody would want
to move it . I mean you 'd walk to the end of the people 's yard and sort of
' fall into a bunch of woods . It 's a really steep hill from what I saw and I
didn 't go through their yard but from looking at the map and stuff before ,
you 'd have to be a goat to .
' Tom Schoenecker : Some of us are .
Andrews: I guess my personal feeling is that the least we should do is put
a metal stake that 's visible at each end of the easement line and that can
be adequate . We don't have to talk about developing of an easement nor any
unnecessary connections but I think at least . . .those neighbors should be
aware of where this easement is located so that there is no conflict or
difficulty between neighbors. And if we don't want the neighborhood to use
the easement , if that 's what our . . .ought not to be used, then I think what
we should do is look at the vacation of this easement and deeding it to the
property owners . I think you 've got to go one way or the other and be fair
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
January 22 , 1991 - Page 20 I/
to everybody . Not just the people that , who their property is directly r
adjacent to the easement .
Hoffman: . . .Jim that we battle in a number of situations . . . '
Andrews: I know it 's not easy but I guess I look at it , you know if it
were my property and I purchased it and I was adjacent to the easement , I
guess I would say that it's my responsibility as a purchaser to be aware of II
what easement 's I 'm located next to and to come to the Council and say ,
it 's not fair because there's an easement on my property is not an excuse .
The easement was put there for the greater good and not necessarily for the 11
convenience of the one person who happens to live next to it . I think we
have to be fair to all concerned. I think we should at the very least , put
something to identify where this easement is so that we eliminate the
difficulty . Development could be dealt with at a later time . We don't
have to make it easy for people to use it but those that wish to use it
should be aware of who 's property they 're on . '
Schroers: . . .just put in a request to the . . .to mark that eaesment?
Hoffman: It would be something that I 'm not , the City has not done before II
but I can certainly investigate that possibility . What type of marker
would be placed there . What type of permanent marker would be placed
there . I do not know whether it 'd be the City placing an extended metal
post is running into a liability issue as well but extending and installing!'
a flush mounted type of marker of some sort is certainly viable .
Schroers: . . .find a way to alert the residents where the marker is? '
Hoffman: Again , it 's an issue where the easements are put there for a
purpose for access to that park but traditionally it 's been two different II
issues . The easement is there but then the discussion comes with a second
round of discussions come . . .when it is developed similar to a situation
over in Saddlebrook to Butte Court . That's a situation where you talked II about the adjoining residents out of courtesy but then you also talk to a
neighborhood that because the adjoining residents , because they have a
right as well to use that public easement so it is a , it 's a situation
where you don 't want to make enemies on any one side .
Betty Lang: How many residents have you talked to . . .?
Tom Schoenecker : Oh there's probably , I think there 's probably about 60 oil
70 homes up in that area . In Minnewashta Manor I believe there 's about 35
and these are the people that I 'm concerned about and were concerned at the
time . I believe as citizens we have a right to know where that easement is '
and that 's all we 're asking for is to know where it is .
Hoffman: But again to express my concern Jim, if you understand I have a II
concern that we should be marking this easement and publicizing it if it
does not lead officially as an entrance to the park. Just having it lead
to the border of the park and then you find your way into the park from
there on is in my opinion not the manner in which to approach that .
Lash: . . .from a liability? '
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
January 22 , 1991 - Page 21
11 Hoffman: Liability and it 's an area of the park which is sensitive . It's
a steep grade . It 's very treed in that area . Certainly you know as a
' nature walk area , to a person that enjoys that type of walk , he can
traverse that but for the normal person to be aware that that is an access
for us to say that that is an access to the park and then they walk through
that backyard and come to the top of that hill and wonder what is taking
place .
Schroers: I was just going ask if there was a problem entering from the
Forest Avenue , from the dead end down there?
Tom Schoenecker : No , there really isn 't a problem entering that way but in
' going walking , it 's nice if you can go in one area and then walk around and
come out the other way and go back home. Basically you get kind of a
circle route and that 's kind of what we 're looking for .
' Andrews: . . .I guess , I don 't think this is a park issue we 're talking
about here in the first place . I think this is a city clerk or city office
project here . You 're not talking about park land the way I understand it .
It 's City land . I would think the information of where the property is is
something.that is public information available at the City office . At the
very least , I mean if we can 't , decide what we want tonight , I think at the _
' very least you should do is request from the City Office for a detailed
plat showing where that easement is. I don't know who would have that , who
would designate if we 're going to send out notices to the property owners
within the 5 houses . . .we need to do that but I think the city offices
should be approached to get the information initially .
Hoffman: . . .Tom I could certainly send you that but then mailing it out to
' the residents for whatever reason would raise some issues which we
currently don 't have answers for .
Andrews: I think at least we should send something to the two property
owners who are adjacent to that easement just for their own information
that there was an inquiry about where the easement was located. For your
' own information here 's a copy of the plat showing where it is. I think at
this point maybe that 's all the farther we have to go .
Tom Schoenecker : Thank you very much .
Schroers: Anyone else have comments on Herman Field?
' Betty Lang: My name is Betty Lang and I live at 2631 Forest Avenue .
I have one comment and I have one question. First of all about the gate .
I understand your thinking that it 's not going to stop anyone on foot but
' what I 'm concerned about are the cars once that's graded back there and
there 's a parking area because just at the dead end we had a lot of beer
parties and teenagers that were congregating and that was the reason I
wanted the gate . Second point it says in the letter that I received is to
complete the access road , Forest Avenue will be extended a short distance
from where it currently stops . Does that mean you 're going to blacktop?
And if you are , are we going to be assessed?
Hoffman: You will not be assessed . The portion of the extended Forest
Avenue will be blacktopped but it will not be an improved road . It will be
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting I/
January 22 , 1991 - Page 22
11
an aggregate base with a . . .blacktop surface but no assessments will be
charged to the adjoining neighbors .
Betty Lang: How about the gravel road to the parking lot area? Now how
about down the road if you decide to blacktop that? Are we going to be
assessed for anything that runs along our property? I
Hoffman: No . Not whatsoever . The gravel road which is going in to access
the park and the parking lot is being put in there . Initially it 's gravel II
for cost saving measures . Two to three years down the line from an
aesthetic standpoint as well as from a maintenance standpoint , when our
public works crews are out doing street patching and that type of thing in
the spring , we 'll schedule that in as a work function to have that
blacktopped but none of that work , that would be in the interior of the
park and that would be paid for out of the park development and acquisition
fund . '
Betty Lang: So we don 't have to worry about that?
Schroers: I think that you 're concerned Betty about the teenage parties '
that are back there . One reason that they 're back there is because it 's
not developed and it 's not an area that 's watched or supervised . The more
that it gets developed , the more often patrol cars come into the area , the II
less of that sort of problem is going to exist .
Andrews: I have one more question . Is there a light plan for the parking II
area there?
Hoffman: No there is not . The extension of utilities which include
electrical is not included .
Lash: It is going to be kind of a . . . I can see where it could potentially
be a problem and I 'd like to make sure that Mrs . Lang feels perfectly free II
to call and . . .we 'll know if it 's a problem and then we can address it .
Hoffman: Parks in general have that stigma attached to them . They are a II
public place where teenagers feel fairly comfortable going to and if they
have access to them at times , they will make use of them and we just have
to take the appropriate measures to try to curb that . I/Schroers: Is there anyone else that we want to hear from on Herman Field?
Hoffman: Nobody here needs to speak . What I 'm looking for tonight is
approval to move forward with the project . Taking this to the City Council II
for their approval and then go ahead and have the specifications and plan .
developed and then move on with the process to have that road construction
process bid and get the construction started. It will probably be in June
of this year .
Lash: I 'll move . . .
Pemrick: I 'll second it .
1
11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting
January 22 , 1991 - Page 23
Lash moved, Pemrick seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission
recommend that the City Council approve the necessary arrangements for
construction of the access road to Herman Field Park to be constructed in
the spring/summer of 1991 . All voted in favor and the motion- carried
unanimously.
DISCUSSION, CITY CENTER PARK MASTER PLAN.
' Hoffman: We have one visitor . Kitty Sitter is here . She is the President
of the Chanhassen APT and the School District has some input into this
project as well since the City Center Park , the land comprises both school
' and city property. So basically the agreements over the past on the
development of that park have been verbal . The funding sources that are
available from both the City and the School District have jointly funded
projects so we 'd like to have the input of both the school officials .
' Kathleen Macy may be here tonight as well . She is the current Principal at
Chanhassen Elementary School . As part of the 1991 Capital Improvement
budget we did designate $68 ,000.00 in improvements for the City Center
' Park . Really the only thing earmarked or tagged as part of that $68 ,000 .00
was approximately $40 ,000 .00 for the improvement or replacement and or
replacement of the playground equipment which is on the southwest corner of
the school . The remaining money is designated as general improvements or
reconfiguration of the park items which are of keen interest to the users
of that park in which I 've heard expressed over the past 3 years are
improvement of the tennis courts which have deteriorated rapidly and are in
pretty deplorable conditions as well as the upgrade of the hockey rinks
which are currently there and then basically upgrading of the facility in
itself . The splitting up of the remaining $28,000 .00 minus the $2 ,000.00 ,
the amount we spent to construct this park master plan is what the
commission should make some sort of decision on . We have to move in a
direction on where you would like to see that money invested within the
park itself . As part of the most recent community center proposal , you
know from the site changes or design layouts , we 're taking a look at to
increase the useability factor . The useable space which that park has so
that included moving existing ballfields . Realigning lines and that type
of thing but it also involves some grading and filling up on the north end
of the park where Kerber takes that bend right in there in that low area .
Then eventually the possible future acquisition of land adjacent to the
' park in the north side so those are all things which the Commission should
think about as we develop ideas for a master park plan which eventually
will be used to proceed with future development within that park .
' Schroers: There 's somebody outside trying to get in.
Hoffman: I was wondering why you guys got these big smiles on your face .
Lash: I have a question. . . .I assume you have kind of a rough idea of what
that would cost . . .
Hoffman: I wasn 't involved in looking at it for the community center
aspect which appears to be approximately 3 acres . It 's in an area where it
would be most likely built into single family or multi-family residential .
It 's a high dollar piece of land. To take a stab at starting at the low
end at 150.
11
/e/Re/z Z.V
/r1/�P4/TE
S
I/
CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 24, 1990
Chairman Mady called the meeting to order at 7:30 p .m . . '
MEMBERS PRESENT: Wendy Pemrick , Jan Lash, Dawne Erhart , James Andrews , Jim
Mady , Curt Robinson and Larry Schroers I
STAFF PRESENT: Lori Sietsema , Park and Rec Coordinator , Todd Hoffman ,
Recreation Supervisor and Jerry Ruegemer , Program Specialist ,
APPOINT ACTING CHAIR: Andrews moved , Mady seconded to appoint Larry
Schroers as Acting Chair for the meeting . All voted in favor and the
motion carried .
REVIEW HERMAN FIELD COST ESTIMATES AND FACILITY PRIORITIZATION.
Public Present:
Name Address ,
Betty Lang 2631 Forest Avenue , Excelsior
Bob & Marcia Schiferli 325 George Street , Excelsior
Dolores Ziegler 6441 Oriole Avenue , Excelsior ,
Kelly Ziegler 6480 Oriole Avenue , Excelsior
Sietsema : I included some background material for your benefit just so you
can get kind of the feel of what the history of the park is . Basically
over the past year the development of Herman Field has been requested to be
speeded up by the homeowners in the area who were interested in forming a
group called the Friends of Herman Field . That group met 2 weeks ago to
discuss prioritization of the facilities at the park and that
recommendation is included . Basically they recommended that the park , the
first phase of the park include park access , the playground area , open 11
field , trail development and 50% of the landscaping in phase 1 .
Additionally they recommended that the 1990 Capital Improvement Program
budget be amended if it was necessary to , if the cost of these items II exceeded $3 ,500.00 which is in the current budget . They also recommended
that Phase 2 to include the boardwalk , picnic area , tennis court , lookout
tower , picnic shelter and landscaping and recommended that that be funded
in 1991 . Staff feels the committee 's recommendation is reasonable and in
order to begin development , we need to then move into acquisition of that
access . The easement between the road right-of-way and the actual park .
As those costs are unknown at this time because we'll have to have
appraisals done and work with the current landowner , I would recommend that
we wait to amend the budget until we know exactly what numbers we 're
dealing with . But otherwise , to accept the recommendation of the
committee .
Schroers: Is there anyone in the audience tonight that is from the Friends
of Herman Field that wish to make any comment in regards to this? Would '
you please come up and state your name and address for us please .
Betty Lang: My name is Betty Lang . I live at 2631 Forest Avenue . That
was part of the property that Lori was mentioning as far as access to the
Park and Rec e Commission Meeting
April 24 , 1990 - Page 2
' park . We had talked about some of the things at the meeting that we had
and one of the things that I think I failed to bring up at that time was
sometime back they had mentioned an entrance gate that would be closed like
whatever the closing would be for parks . 10:00 or 11:00 and I would still
like to see that so that it can be locked at night . And also I think we
discussed the possibility of having open fires down there . The more I
thought about it , the less I thought it was a good idea due to the fact
that our property adjoins that and there 's no water , no hydrants or
anything down there . I guess that's it.
Schroers: Thank you . How do you feel about the entrance gate Lori?
That 's something that could be taken into consideration?
Sietsema : That can certainly be done. The park maintenance staff has
built gates in the past and I don't see that that would be a big problem .
As far as the fire rings , the committee did discuss whether there should be
grills or fire rings. I can't recall that they really came up with a
' conclusion . The staff would not recommend that we put in any kind of a
fire ring . At the most we 'd consider grills and the policy has been to
provide grills in parks because oftentimes people will bring their grills ,
grill in the park and then dump the coals on the ground and walk away and
throw their grill back in their car and then you have the potential for
either fire or kids walking over hot coals . So we have provided grills to
prevent that from happening . It 's just basically something that this
commission should , however you feel about it.
Schroers: Maybe that would be something to consider in Phase 2 of the
1 development?
Sietsema : Yeah. We wouldn't have to include that in the first phase . I
don 't know if anybody felt real strongly one way or another about the
grills but staff again would not recommend having the fire rings.
Mady: And if there 's anymore discussion on fire rings , I would like to see
it go to the Public Safety Commission and maybe input from the Fire
Marshall too .
Schroers: Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to comment
on the Herman Field issue? If not , then I would open it to the commission
for any comments in regards to this issue .
' Lash: I was a couple minutes late so I missed what , did you say anything
beyond what your recommendation was?
' Sietsema: Not really .
Lash: Okay . I just had a couple of questions. One is, what do we have in
the budget for 1991? Anything?
Sietsema: We haven't done a budget for 1991 .
Lash: So that 's something we can look at .
11
11
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
' April 24 , 1990 - Page 3
II
Sietsema : That 's a blank piece of paper at this point . II
Robinson: Did we have something in there? We did a 3 year plan or
II
something .
Sietsema: Boy , I 'd have to go back and look . I don't recall that there
was anything in the 5 year plan . I don 't recall that there was .
II
•
Schroers: Jan, do you have something else?
Lash: The way I 'm understanding this is what you 're saying is Phase 1 is II
going to cost more than the $35 ,000 .00?
Sietsema: It 's very likely that it would . I
Lash: So you 're recommending a budget adjustment?
Sietsema : What I 'm recommending is that you approve Phase 1 as the II
committee has outlined it and direct staff to proceed with acquisition of
the access easement that we 'll need and when we know what firm costs are , II
I 'll bring it back to you for a budget amendment at that time.
Schroers: Jim , do you have any thoughts?
Mady: Yeah , I just wanted to the plan looks fine . The work of the Friends
of Herman Field committee along with staff should be commended . As to
amending the budget at this time , I guess I 'd like to see staff go forward "
to guesstimates . Get the cost done , nailed down and then come back with a
site . I have a real difficult time saying yes or no to a budget amendment
at this time . We have to , I think as a commission , have to discuss how well
consider budget amendments . Whether this one gets one or not or another
park gets a budget amendment , I have a tough time amending the budget once
it 's been in place . I don't know if we have a procedure in place for that
but I would like to see staff get an appraisal done and get the '
negotiations going with it because until that 's done, absolutely nothing
else can go along .
Robinson: Lori , did the Friends of Herman Field approve of the latest plan,
we had?
Sietsema: Yes . I
Robinson: They liked that plan?
Sietsema : They were directed, I indicated to them that the meeting was II
where they should bring up any last changes that they would like to see on
the plan and there were none that were talked about . I
Robinson: Do we have any alternatives if it just becomes cost prohibitive
or whatever on coming off Forest Avenue at the proposed location? The
access road . Is there a second alternative if we just. . . I
•
I/
11
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
IIApril 24 , 1990 - Page 4
ISietsema : Well if you recall , we looked at , we did a feasibility study on
four different accesses to the park . One coming off of TH 41 . Coming off
of Oriole . One coming off Forest and then the other one coming off of
I Piper Ridge . Piper Ridge was not accessible through that area at all . The
TH 41 option was the most expensive and the Oriole Lane was the one where
the soils were poor and we would have to take down the large stand of
I trees . So it was the decision of this Commission and also approved by City
Council to do the Forest Avenue access .
Robinson: So the other 3 alternatives are really not very good
I alternatives?
Sietsema: No .
IRobinson.: I have no further comments .
IErhart: I would go along with staff 's recommendation.
Schroers:. Jim and Wendy are kind of new and I don't know if you had an
opportunity to be , I 'm pretty sure that you didn't have an opportunity to
I be involved in the Herman Field issue from the onset but if you have any
comments 5 - - regard , we 'd be happy to hear them .
AndreL. : guess my only comment would be toward later development. and
that would be what , there appear to be trails through the woods . Would
those be lit at night at all or would that be an area that would be kept . . .
1 Schroers: No . I think that our original intention was that they 're'
basically a nature type trail in the spring , summer and fall season and
would possibly lend itself to cross country sking in the winter but
Ibasically they would be a turf trail and not real developed .
Sietsema : The City Code states that public parks are closed at 10:00 or
Idusk , whichever comes first in neighborhood parks .,
Andrews: I 'm thinking from a safety standpoint and there probably would
not be a concern then .
IISietsema: The park would not be open at night so there wouldn't be a real
need to have them .
IPemrick: I too agree with staff 's recommendation on this and I can
appreciate Mrs . Lang 's comments about wanting it locked. If it 's on her
Iproperty line I think that 's only right that we would honor that.
Schroers: Okay , good. I also feel that the recommendation is acceptable .
From personal experience, I 'd like to make two comments in regard to
I boardwalks . Boardwalks , number one generally cut through prime wildlife
areas and number two are an expensive , very expensive item in terms of
maintenance . There 's all kinds of problems with them. I don't know what
I the water level is or exactly where the boardwalk is proposed but if it 's a
proposing type of one , the floating type of materials they have seems to
enhance the appetite of the muskrats and they get in there and eat that
II
11
Park and Rec Commission Meeting
April 24 , 1990 - Page 5
sort of thing all up . The weeds tend to grow up through it and under it
and rot it out and it 's really a difficult thing to maintain so I think
that 's something that you may want to take a look at . But other than
that , I think that it 's fine and I guess I 'd be ready to entertain a motion
if someone has one.
Mady: I 'll make a motion that we direct staff to proceed with the
appraisal and negotiations on the park access as soon as possible .
Robinson: I 'll second it . '
Mady moved, Robinson seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission
authorize staff to have an appraisal done on the property needed for park II
access and to enter into negotiations with the property owners for
acquisition. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
REVIEW REQUEST TO AMEND COMPREHENSIVE TRAIL PLAN. • '
Sietsema: I had a couple of calls on this item . People who were
interested in being in the audience and I told them that it probably would
not be on the agenda until after 8:00 so if you would want to hold off on
this just because I know there was some interest .
Schroers: I wouldn 't have a problem with that . Does anyone object? Okay,
Then we 'll put that to the back of our packet and move to item 6.
SITE PLAN REVIEW, REDMOND PRODUCTS, INC. 1
5' -tsema : This site plan proposal is located, the location of the site i
jus north of the Lake Susan Hills West subdivision. It will be located o
the n. th side of what will be Lake Drive. Just south of - e Business
Park . \is 51 .6 acres that 's proposed to be develope. nto a 388 ,380
square foo -\office/warehouse facility. As you may - .w , Redmond Products
is currently ocated just off of TH 5 over by. th- ,ress and ABC Lumber .
They 're propos to develop a bigger facilit -nd move . The Comprehensive
Plan does not ca for parks in this area = -- Lake Susan Park serves the
industrial area . - . •itionally the City - -s parks in Lake Susan Hills West
directly across the s. eet from this - e . The most northerly park site
of Lake Susan Hills Wes lies dire y across the street. Lake Drive East
will include a sidewalk a _ g t. south side of the road and the trail plail
calls for a concrete sidewa - long the east side of Audubon Road north of
Lake Drive East . So the r - o ` : dation as there is no , this 'ins't a park
deficient area , the rec. endatib, for staff is to require the payment of II
park dedication fees • lieu of p41- ; rid dedication and to require a 20
foot wide trail ea -ment along Audubon -oad and the construction of a 5
foot wide concr - e sidewalk within the -e- --ement and to allow a $3 ,500 .00
toward the tr -il fee for sidewalk construction.
Mady: S6 the credit is specifically for Audubo road?
Sietsema: Audubon only because the sidewalk along L=• e Drive will be. . .
•
Mady: In the HRA deal . •
CiTY O .---
4 cHANHAssEN
690 COULTER DRIVE• P.O.BOX 147• CHANHASSEN,MINNESOTA 55317
(612)937-1900• FAX(612)937-5739
Prti MEMORANDUM • �,. • 4/ P' •
TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager --#/i;7 9.2
FROM: Jo Ann Olsen, Senior Planner ` • -
DATE: October 31, - - •
SUB,: Street Vacation of Oriole and Forest Avenue
On October 22, 1990, the City Council reviewed a street vacation
requested by area residents. During discussion on the item, the
residents raised questions regarding recommendations concerning
trail connections to an adjacent park and the location of
utilities. Staff could not respond to these items at the meeting
and suggested that the item be tabled for further analysis. The
City Council tabled the item until questions on existing utilities
and trail access could be answered (Attachment #1) . On Friday, •
October 26, 1990, staff met with the applicants requesting the
street vacation to discuss the extent of the street vacation,
location of utilities and future trail easements. We have also had
an opportunity to discuss the matter in house with other staff
members to develop a comprehensive approach to the issue.
As part of the HSZ and Gary Reed Subdivision development, storm
sewer was extended through the right-of-way of Oriole Lane and ends
just inside the Herman Field Park. Therefore, it would be
necessary to maintain a utility easement to cover the existing
storm sewer. It was also preferred by the applicants to have a
trail to the park provided through Oriole Lane rather than preserve
a trail easement through existing Forest Avenue right-of-way.
Therefore, it was agreed by both staff and the applicants that
Oriole Lane would not be vacated so that the storm sewer would be
covered by the right-of-way and -the -city would also have the
ability to locate a trail for connection to Herman Field Park along
Oriole Lane. By maintaining the right-of-way for Oriole Lane, the
piece of property owned by the Ziegler's (Attachment $2) will still
have road right-of-way which will allow it to be developed in the
future if desired by the lot owner.
In regards to the vacation of Forest Avenue, it was agreed that
Forest Avenue could be vacated from Oriole Lane up to the access •
road into Herman Field Park (Attachment $2) . The Schiferli's are
•
•
ill: 11
so
Oriole & Forest Avenue Vacation II
October 31, 1990
Page 2 II" one of the applicants for the vacation of Forest Avenue and have
agreed to locate the 40 foot access easement for the park
completely on their property. Thus, in exchange for vacating the II unused right-of-way, the City will be obtaining a needed access
into the park. The property owned by the Schiferli's will still
have access from Forest Avenue right-of-way. Should they want to
II
subdivide and develop the property, it would be the responsibility
of the land owner to extend utilities and improve the street right-
of-way to city standards. Since these improvements are not
IIInecessary at this time for the park, the city is not pursuing these II improvements until they are requested by adjacent land owners. The
City is requesting that a 60 foot radius be provided over the
IIIISchiferli property for the purpose of providing a turnaround. II The City will be installing an access road into Herman Field Park.
The access road will be extended from existing improved Forest II Avenue and will be located within the Forest Avenue right-of-way.
ill The access road will not be improved to full city standards until
it is required to serve additional development that may occur in
IIIIthe area. Utilities will not be extended to the park. The park is II designed as a passive neighborhood park and the plans do not call
for provision of indoor bathroom facilities.
,SUMMARY.
II
Staff is in agreement that the portion of Forest Avenue proposed to II be vacated is no longer necessary to be maintained by the City as
III right-of-way. All existing utilities are still being protected by
the remaining Forest Avenue and Oriole Lane right-of-way and the
® vacation does not result in any landlocked parcels.
II
RECOMMENDATION
The City Council recommends approval of Vacation Request 488-4 for
Forest Avenue with the following conditions: II
III 1. A 40 foot easement shall be provided across the westerly lot
line of the Schiferli's property to provide access for the II
Herman Field Park.
III 2. The Oriole Lane right-of-way shall be maintained in it's I
current status to protect existing storm sewer improvements
and to provide future trail access to Herman Field.
II
3. Those portions of a 60 foot radius outside Forest Avenue
right-of-way shall be dedicated as easement across the
Schiferli property for a turnaround. I
1
II
•
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