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1d. Reconsider Police Study Comm 1 . JL 1 ' CITY OF :., I , . ' - '•'41 • CHANHASSEN I „- 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 k . . (612) 937-1900 • FAX (612) 937-5739 IAction by City Administrator Frdorsed V R' I hEMORAND(I1 Modified Rejected TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager Date -6 '9 0 I Date Submitted to Commission FROM: Jim Chaffee, Public Safety Director Date Submitted to Council 1 DATE: March 2, 1990 3 -/Z-y SUBJ: Police.Study Camnittee IIOn February 26, 1990, we presented to the City Council a recommendation to postpone establishing the Police Study Committee. At that time, I indicated II that I would provide the Council with a full report on March 12, 1990 outlining the the reasons for our recommendation. ' You may remember that on December 4, 1 1989, Public Safety presented a proposal to the Council recommending the establishment Of a Police Study Committee. At that time the Council approved the concept with some reservations and revisions. 1 BACKGROUND: The idea for a Police Study Committee was born 6after several meetings with the II Public Safety Cannission and discussions with the Sheriff's Department and Mayor Don Chmiel. You may remember that in early January, 1989, City Council asked that Sheriff Al Wallin and myself prepare a study of the police needs for the City of Chanhassen. At that time, it was thought that a Police Study Carmittee II would be appropriate to assist Sheriff A1,Wallin and myself in our attempts to come up with a plan for police services. Unfortunately, we were not able to get together to develop a plan.., This is°again why the thought of a .Police Study 1 Committee to assist us was discussed. ANALYSIS: --, . 1 When this issue was discussed with the Public Safety Commission, they had several concerns regarding the necessity for another earmittee (see attached II Public Safety Commission minutes). In addition, when this issue was presented to the City Council on December 4, 1989, the same concerns were brought up by the City Council. Although reluctant, the City Council did approve the concept of a Police Study Carmittee with a revision adding two citizens at large to the IIoriginal concept of seven members. 1 11 Don Ashworth Police Study Committee Page 2 On February 26, 1990, we again presented the issue to the City Council with a ' recommendation to not proceed with the Police Study Committee. This recommen- dation was based on several reasons after numerous discussions between this office and yours. 1 First, our crime rate is down. Our population is up and yet our crime rate seems to be held in check. This is an ideal situation from a law enforcement standpoint to be in. Although some say we may be living on borrowed time and that certainly the crime rate will catch up to our population, it is not the case now, and in fact we can feel good that we have accomplished so much with limited resources. As I stated at the Council meeting, the low crime rate level in the City can be attributed to several factors. First, we would like to think that our efforts in the area of Crime Prevention has paid off. Certainly the effort the Sheriff's Department has contributed to law enforcement in the community has had an effect. Finally, the addition of the State Patrol office in the new wing has given us an added measure of police activity in the com- munity. ' As I also stated at the Council meeting, it appears that things are in very good harmony between the three law enforcement agencies that are now actively working the City of Chanhassen. The Public Safety Department, the Carver County Sheriff's Department, and the Minnesota State Patrol all work together in a very complimentary fashion. The idea of establishing a Police Study Committee in itself would appear to be anathema to this harmonious relation. Finally, this office is not prepared to, and does not anticipate, recommending to the City Council the implementation or start up of a local police agency. At this point it is not a politically viable nor cost effective alternative. For these reasons, we think that it is premature to establish and implement a Police Study Committee. For that matter I would agree with comments from mem- bers of the Public Safety Commission and the City Council that when the time ' canes to look at alternatives in a serious fashion, then the already established Public Safety Commission is the best body to accomplish that. RECOMMENDATION: It is my recommendation that we not establish a Police Study Committee at this time. I will be working with Sheriff Al Wallin to determine patrol levels for the City in 1991 through the Sheriff's contact. 1 , I I - i .. - -- :' - 3==-'--?os.--'._`,Vii_'= •-. - i,a,4 -_ - - - __ - _ -.r ___;e jam. ;_ -_--`-- , F ... -- .ii:.... :-.. --"? . Ni,‘ . . • , . ,. . . A 690 COULTER DRIVE• P.O. BOX 147• CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 I . -` (612)937-1900• FAX(612)937-5739 u MEMORANDUM TO: Don. A.6hwoJr th., City Manager. , FROM: Um Chin d e.e, Pubti a Sad e.ty D.i�r.e.c.to D 1 ATE: Febvuvgy 21 , 1990 SUB': Potice. Study Comm,i tte.e. I PLea.6e be. adv.c4ed that we.•have. ,ce.i.ved only -two c�pp a e-ata.on..6 1 dn,om COQ n. c..t i.z en.o _ g th e.in de a•idr e. to be. ap po.tn teal to the Pot ice. Study Committee. • ls • '_. . ' - RECOMMENDATION• I%t -i.6 my 4e.comm �_ = _,� - y � �t• •n. that we. ,�%e.-e.vatr�,at¢. #ha.-"_,.�.��: •:, ▪. ; - a° Po ¢.ndetLori #.o `; ;. :r.= ' `need ion �P.�i c¢: Study Comun a e, •� • make tee omm #h;¢- 4. c • C.ity Councie. on. Ma&eh. 12, 1990. Th.�.b �.e-evaectatton wa.6 pacomp#,ad _ 1 by common to and eoncetn.6 ed Vii" member.6 o4 tie. Count i e..and Pu.bL. Sa4e.ty Comm,i.64ton. 4utt Jr.. :o..t with. 4.eeommextda�.Lon6 w.i.Gt. be. pxedente.d .to the Co on Ma. k .12. . ` - _ , e • • Manager's Comments: J` n's recommendati,n was prepared after. several meetings bet gen he and I quest`oning the process which I we were embarking n. Specifically, i is our belief that we have sufficien •e ources between existi •staff and the Public Safety Commisti,:o pee - + ' isioned by the City Council. ' x ': y �Prlmar do der-° c uded: 1) the study showttIti eWtiiip" et° d r. `elli�ea" ffi'1MX-, k"_ ,_1-E .at the City was ci3 lien lyy happy with the services provided, •.. the Sheriff's Deparmerand 3) that the potential , c : ge would not occur for at least two`�r rree o years.,,,,. ....,!.-9j e objectives may am have been to establish some fo -°a-' 'ase line which would act as a triggering mechanism, i.et p pulation, number of employees, etc. I find difficulty in bel eying that a base line can be established. Although "privat1zation" is. no longer in the vogue recognizing the number catastrophies, there still remain many cities who contract (both privately and publicly) for garbage collection, bus service, recreational services, etc. Bloomington continues to efficiently operate its fire services through volun- teers. Size or number of employees probably will not be deter- mining factors as to whether or not the contract system is I , - , r C 1 TY OF . ;,, v 1 I .;: 690 COULTER DRIVE• P.O. BOX 147• CHANHASSEN,MINNESOTA 55317, CHANHASSEN . ..-._-:, ' (612)937-1900• FAX(612)937-5739 IFebruary 14, 1990 Mr. Ken Potts II 9431 Foxford Road Chanhassen, MN 55317 IIDear Ken, We have received your application to the Police Study Committee recently authorized by the City Council. As you may recall, the II City Council did authorize two at-large citizens to be appointed to the committee which would then consist of nine members including myself, my Assistant Scott Harr, Sheriff Al Wallin, II Chief Deputy Jim Castleberry, Public Safety Commissioners Barb Klick and Bill Bernhjelm and Ci ;pouncilmember Ursula Dimler. Since we have received only two "Aplications from citizens to be appointed to the Police Study CA m ttee, I would anticipate that 11 your appointment by the City Cfbnc t would be perfunctory. 0 I am anticipating submitting pile proposal to the City Council at the February 26th Council me - ing. 6tce the appointments are I made I would then anticipatrour first', meeting to be held some- time in the middle of Marc * At thisoint I am researching the possibility of having meet3"cgs the second Thursday of each month I to coincide with the Pub AC Safety Commission meeting. Hopefully, this would less of a stran concerning time committ- ments for all members4It would be my `� I x.' y guess that we would hold our meetings at 6 p, on the second Thursday of each month with the Public Safety-=Commission meeting commencing at approximately 7 p.m. A: i c- I As soon as ,- .. �,.�11ra►x�xp��b=e•c4etalziftvAttnIt8ct .with you, but please do not: hesitate to call if you have any questions or com- ments. ``" :=° ` ._;I incerel � . , � ' E n �` im Chaff Public Safety Dire`cor II JC:cd cc: Don Ashworth, City Manger I Scott Harr, Asisstant Public Safety Director Public Safety Commission Sheriff Al Wallin t • IF I/ continued. The most realistic triggering factor will be changes • in the County Board; contract disputes in the western portion of the County; new lawsuits between Chaska and Carver County; or, most logically, the perceived level of service/working rela- tionship between the County and City. I use the word perceived as fears by the community can also play an important role in the decision-making process. Specifically, during the late 1970's the City experienced a severe number of unsolved rapes. -A number of groups perceived this to be a problem with the Sheriff's Department and that this crisis would cease if we had a local police department. If a referendum would have occurred at that time, it is likely that a local police department would be in effect today for the wrong reason. 1 This office would request that the City Council not establish a Police Study Committee and that the study being sought be assigned to staff to complete in conjunction with the Public Safety Commission during 1990. .,`►,.,,a�-fi 1 1 1 1 1 1 . 1 t It 1 1 1 1 . . . .. . . . . • 1 . CITY OF . .., . _ A !-, I ii.7 .:' :- CHANHASSEN .,ti i . , .,_ I 690 COULTER DRIVE• P.O.BOX 147• CHANHASSEN,MINNESOTA 55317 �_ (612)937-1900• FAX(612)937-5739 IFebruary 14, 1990 Ms. Kathy Schroeder II 7720 Frontier Trail Chanhassen, MN 55317 Dear Kathy, We have received your application to the Police Study Committee recently authorized by the City Council. As you may recall,, the I City Council did authorize two at-large citizens to be appointed to the committee which would then consist of nine members including myself, my Assistant Scott Harr, Sheriff Al Wallin, II Chief Deputy Jim Castleberry, Public Safety Commissioners Barb Klick and Bill Bernhjelm and Citi:Councilmember Ursula Dimler. Since we have received only two ;applications from citizens to be appointed to the Police Study Committee, I would anticipate that IIyour appointment by the City Coincil would be perfunctory. I am anticipating submitting tie proposal to the City Council at II the February 26th Council meeting. Once the appointments are made I would then anticipate7our first meeting to be held some- time in the middle of Marche At this' oint I am researching the possibility of having meetLgs the see nd Thursday of each month II to coincide with the Public Safety Commission meeting. Hopefully, this would be "less of a strap concerning time committ- ments for all members. It would be my guess that we would hold I our meetings at 6 p.m. on the second Thursday of each month with the Public Safety ,Commission meeting commencing at approximately 7 p.m. k: *:fir,.< :°:_ , a .2- As soon as I .,f ism :gip more ;.details.,,I::wil p onta. ,t with you, but please do riot hesitate to�"caI1M`1f''yoiChave'any'quea't{o s or com- ments. .t:'_ i. . .4 ' ' 1incerely, - x 3^ y_ , , f im Chaffe Public Safety Director II JC:cd cc: Don Ashworth, Cit y Manger Scott Harr, Asisstant Public Safety Director I Public Safety Commission Sheriff Al Wallin II - - • II I January 29, 1990 Jim Chaffee Public Safety Director City of Chanhassen ' 690 Coulter Drive P.O. Box 147 Chanhassen, MN 55317 1 Dear Jim: Enclosed please find my application to serve on the Police Study Committee. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Very truly yours, I ig: /410 Kenneth N. Potts 9431 Foxford Rd. Chanhassen, MN 55317 ' Enc. 1 1 SAN X1145 W`1 � C ' DATE I"P i 'Qf7 APPLICATION FOR CHANHASSEN COMMISSION POSITION DESIRED Police Study Commission ALTERNATE II i NAME: Kenneth Potts BIRTHDATE (OPTIONAL) 6-18-53 ADDRESS 9431 Foxford Road, Chanhassen, MN 55317 SOME PHONE 496-0681 BUSINESS PHONE 474-3221 . = SOW LONG HAVE ZOO LIVED IN CHANHASSEN 3 years HIGHEST LEVEL OF EDUCATION ATTAINED, PLUS DEGREES, IF ANY Law school graduate CURRENT EMPLOYMENT: (GIVE POSITION, DUTIES. IF EMPLOYMENT IS RELATIVELY RECENT, DISCUSS RPREVIOUSEMPLOY OF MENT AS WELL) Associate attorney at Standke, Greene & Greenstein, doing civil 11 - litigation, including worker's compensation and personal injury. • ACTIVITIES AND AFFILIATIONS: (INCLUDE ELECTIVE RECOGNITIONS RECEIVED, IF ANY) OFFICES AND HONORS OR ' T-ball coach in Chanhassen;. Soccer coach in Chanhassen REASONS EASONS FOR SEEKING THIS POSITION AND SPECIAL QUALIFICATIONS: ' I am interested in seeing that the city receives superior police service within the budgetary constraints that our tax base will allow. As a former prosecutor working in Carver County, I have some familiarity with the law enforcement services to the city. IN FILING THIS APPLICATION, I UNDERSTAND THAT A COMMITMENT OF MY TIME, I ENERGY, INTEREST, AND PARTICIPATION. WILL BE INVOLVED, AND I AM PRE- PARED TO MAKE SUCH A COMMITMENT IN THE EVENT I AM APPOINTED TO THE ABOVE COMMISSION. ■AC ./e2e SIGNATURE: II • 1 I - t r - - -_ , DATE JA J.2 r 1974) If APPLICATION FOR CHANHASSEN COMMISSION s POSITION DESIRED//cam /i f ��» ee• ALTERNATE NAME: f5?r (� I J -�i�i't�rnF.P BIB?HOA?E (OPTIONAL) 2-/y-y ADDRESS 79.2n y►'r.F..r. -T2t4'L G1.4n1164ss1.74✓ . I HOME PHONE X13/ /9V BUSINESS PHONE QP 7-�`,,'z� i BOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN CHANHASSEN d cj s.. I • HIGHEST LEVEL OF BDUCA?ION ATTAINED, PLUS DEGREES, IF ANT 1 z z,. L'c /,%9e.._ • ?� ha'.'AS-=.. 4. Cx7 •4l G,.,cl t!.- 7' -0i'te.;x- kite r-sa 77,c r • I CURRENT EMPLOYMENT: (GIVE POSITION, EMPLOYER, AND BRIEF DISCUSSION OF DUTIES. IF EMPLOYMENT IS RELATIVELY RECENT, DISCUSS PREVIOUS EMPLOY- • - KENT AS WELL) reciie �.C�l e. 640-ti te 17 IVc u Se's .47— "#46,-/-:-/1 it-eV/el / ect: (li-( de-v, ,-'i - (.z.•d, - .1c_. /'4 rs?.74 6. 4-e, - 4',L4. ..3 c e. r q • / ( ••'S � oZ 1.«� e?n�i. .3,4,;„,,42„..,..„,,z 'K-4^' hit-1.er--t.•,.c, b. reef e... Cr,7:ric, .P e (V I)-n /�ieci,rRi eie.,As, :?y ACTIVITIES AND AFFILIATIONS: (INCLUDE ELECTIVE OFFICES AND HONORS OR RECOGNITIONS RECEIVED, IF ANY) f17 o„,4s.'_ e4 14-4 ev--k e' u�•L.J e,,,,1„ I /��r� ' C.x.,/ei��e;.., , e_ C'�,i.41.. ; 1(n. kcd 4-),aci l'x..*4,- -,.- O ,/ . ...P :14..e1;-44;..". At ,,6.0r 4 ) rte:-s eexre Oce,,,,./ c I Gyn � �le'r.. _�:- - -� ice•,.tea. r r2,,-M i_ .c s- gt� 4. # ,� a t- -041•‘••••//C.77 '4-Sli t'bus ei!F.T.,q REASONS FOR SEEKING THIS POSITION AND SPECIAL QUALIFICATIONS: �,, ,- �� ��pc),V� .S ef'tom,�S � so,c1 �1;yyl hl Gt r�. 1�� - � - '�� a�t�� �- .9,» ..6L - .. C. ,04,47 Ye. ee&tisvL T 4tii s �nS14.crti Zt'..t'drrtSs. � /h,.�t4y / . 1 IN FILING ?HIS APPLICA?ION, I UNDERSTAND THAT A COMMI?MEN? OF MY TIME, - ENERGY, INTEREST, AND PARTICIPATION WILL BE INVOLVED, AND I AM PRE- PARED TO MAKE SUCH A COMMITMENT IN THE EVENT I AM APPOINTED TO THE ABOVE COMMISSION. I AM5/1/(4,„11-,)c/ SIGNATURE: I • JAN 2 61993 CM AF CHANHASSEN - - ;' City Council Meeting - December_ 4, 1989 11 I Councilman Johnson: They have to do it by volume. I know commercially you do it by how many cans you pick up. If everybody puts out 2 cans, they write the contract with the neighborhood that if you put out 2 cans, that's the most you can put out. You can't put out 3 or something. IMayor Chmiel: Wouldn't that be done strictly by volume anyway? Councilman WoLkman: Well but if I put out or my neighbor who's a single older woman, puts out half a can and the people across the street have 5 kids and they put out 5 cans and it's a group contract. What I'm getting at is, we're then going to have to probably dissolve the contract and we're asking nuierous haulers to came into the neighborhood where that isn't... Councilman Johnson: We can renegotiate the contract but it has to be on a volume basis. Councilman Workman: It would then spell the end of it, of the contract as it would be. Councilman Johnson: Unless you could come up with some creative ways to do it. The State legislature has said it has to be by volume or weight. Councilman Workman: No, I can't J et creative. It's just something I wanted 9 ►�9 clear because if that's the case, then that spells, we've always discussed in our discussions of our trash hauling that we've got a problem with a lot of trash haulers coming into town and running all over every day of the week and that's kind of what the State maybe is telling cities that that might have to Ell happen in certain neighborhoods. I'd move approval. Councilman Johnson: Second. IICouncilman Workman moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to approve the Ordinance Amending Chapter 16 of the City Code regarding Collection of Recycleables, Final IIReading. All voted in favor and the motion carried. ' APPOINTMENT OF A POLICE STUDY COMMITTzS. Councilman Workman: Establishing a police study committee. Number one, I guess II there's some confusion as to whether or not 2 citizens from the community at large should be appointed to this or whether they should be from the public safety =mission. Should we have 6 members or 7 members? My fundamental concern about this committee is I'm wondering if in fact we're again not establishing a police study committee too soon. My question being to the Council, if in fact the police study finds out that we need in fact a police department of our own with our own City of Chanhassen police personnel, if in I fact that's found out, would we go ahead and do that? Could we afford to go ahead and do that? I think probably not and if in that case, or if we're looking to do a study for long range, say 5 years or out, won't in fact we be doing exactly what's been done with the last police committee study in that it I really is worthless to us today. Or is it? And so, maybe I'm not so clear about what the final product of the police committee is going to be because if it's going to be a long range forecaster, or are we going to pick a date or a 4 . _____________:_____AB II' City Coulcil Meeting - December 4, 1989 year when potentially we could be doing this and if in fact it is in 5-6-7 years, wouldn't it be more appropriate if we think that even in a rough sense? Wouldn't it make more sense to do this study 2 to 3 years prior to? II Councilman Johnson: Since I started this last year and continued what we asked for last year is for the Sheriff and our Public Safety Department went to get together and form a committee and I like it being expanded include th p li ublic. TO determine when is that time going to be? The studies I've s�eso� far have been very inconclusive and are quite old. How can we do it to where we have minimum impact on the sheriff and minimum impact on the City. To my way of thinking, it's a gradual growth. If on December 31st of 1990 they said that's II the end of the Sheriff's contract, we're going to have a police department January 1st. That'd be terrible for the Sheriff's Department. There would be a lot of people unemployed all of a sudden because they couldn't support those t employees that work the city and it'd be very rough on the city. There has to be some way for us to make this transition at the proper time. In starting to make that transition, we've already actually started by having Jim Chaffee and II Scott Harr and our CSO program. I'd like to see an orderly migration from the contract to our own police department if that's what the study concussion finds needs to be done and they need to determine when that needs to be started. If II we wait 2 years and they say well it should have been started 2 years ago, then we have a problem. I think it's a good time to start looking at it. If they say we need to do it and start the transition in 5 years, then I agree with you. That it would need to be, a group to look at it just prior to starting that II transition because we have to collect that information. Mawr Chmiel: I guess what Tom is saying, are we spinning our wheels now before I it's really needed to start looking at it this much in advance. Councilman Johnson: I don't think we have a 5 year plan for public safety. We have a 5 year plan for a lot of other things. We need a 5 year plan and a 10 II year plan for public safety and it may not be a very exact plan like none of our plans are very exact. Most businesses change their 5 year plan yearly. That's probably what this will be too. The growth, we might predict such and such a II growth within the next 5 years and interest rates go back up to 16% and we won't see that growth. Then that delays the plan and everything else. IICbuncilwo an Dimler: Okay, I do have a question. • isn't that why we started the 'PPublic Safety Commission originally? And now we're adding another committee. I think that was the original purpose of the Public Safety Commission wasn't it Jim? II Jim Chaffee: It was to advise the Public Safety Department in various areas. I don't think they were specifically charged with coming up with a 5 year plan... II Councilwoman Dimler: So in my estimation, are we just creating another .- committee or was this the original purpose of the Public Safety Commission and ill has it developed and taken on other responsibilities? Do you remember Don? Don Ashworth: My recollection is that they were to prepare an annual report that report was to, that was originally started by Dick Wing and it was as study of own police force versus continuing with the contract. Councilwoman Dimler: That's what I thought. • 5 City Council meeting - December 4, 1989 II Don Ashworth: I don't think that it really looked at a 5 year scale though but yes, my recollection is that the committee, one of the reasons the committee was put into being was to continue to study the police issue. 1s Councilwoman Dimler: Okay, so do we really need another committee or can we T just...them to'do-what we'origir`ially°eamiiiissioned-then to do? IICouncilman Johnson: No, I think we need one where we have the Sheriff's Department involved because this impacts the Sheriff's Department worse actually than it does the City. ' Ceuncilwo*an Dimler: Okay. That's fine. Yeah, I agree with that. Councilman Johnson: So a subcommittee of the public safety, which is what this is turning into is to being really a subcommittee of the public safety committee with 2 members of public safety committee, the public safety department, the sheriff's department and then one at large and then one member of the Council so I we've got 2 public safety, 2 sheriff, 2 public safety commission and then 1 member of the Council is what's being proposed. That's 7 members. I think 7 is always a good number versus 6. ICamcilwoRan Dialer: I also had a concern about, it says here that we should present something to the City Council by early summer of 1990. I'm wondering if I that isn't a little bit ambitious but anyway, I guess my feeling is if we go ahead and establish this committee, that we should have 9 members and that we should add 2 members at large that have no leaning one way or the other but are fl totally objective. Councilman Johnson: I don't think you'll find such a person. ' Councilman Workman: And if we expand it to 9, I'd certainly like to be a member of the commission. ' Councilman Johnson: You're not at large. Councilman Workman: I'm getting larger. The word that you used Jay was transition. This is the word that this Council has been fighting with since ' January. The transition of when and how and what we're going to do with our own force. I think what Council has seen is there's been a transition going on that maybe Council doesn't think is appropriate at this stage and so I guess what ' maybe you're saying by establishing this committee, you think we're so many years away from doing this and that we need to start making a transition now. Councilman Johnson: We need to do something orderly. Not necessarily, I'm Isaying if we're going to make the transition, we need to have it orderly and planned. Right now we seam to be making a transition without a plan to follow. IICouncilman Workman: I'd agree with that. Councilman Johnson: So let's make a plan and see if the transition is necessary ' would be the first step of this committee. 6 City Council Meeting - December 4, 1989 r Mai'or Chmiel: I think I was sort of one too that brought this concerns as to one of the things you mentioned Jay was that the Sheriff because of my Department that would be the one that would really be hurting more than anybody else. I had discussion with that and I also discussed this with Commissioner Klingelhutz and also with Al Wallin and they thought that that be II a good idea to come up with some conclusions. Whether it be 5 pearrssbdown would he road or 10 and it won't became really- effective, as far as I'm concerned, until and if I'm still around here sitting out in the audience, it won't become effective until it really is cost effective as far as I'm concerned. As long as 11 the sheriff's department is doing a good enough job for us and we feel it's satisfactory, then I don't see the need for us to pursue our own police department. But once it gets to that point, that's something that we have to II weigh back and forth and take everything into consideration. Councilman Workman: But that's what I'm saying. I don't think, we're talking II about a transition from the sheriff's department. I mean I'm worried about our city just as much and I don't think we're anywhere near making that transition. We're all sitting in on the budget together for crying a windfall caning from somewhere and we've talked about ttheltransition of have II picking up an automobile here, adding an employee here, adding a copy, doing this stuff. We're adding, adding, adding and we're not so sure that that's maybe the way we ought to do it. , Councilman Johnson: Let's do the study and find out. IICouncilman Workman: I'm just saying Jay, are we too early on this? are, that's a pretty big waste of time. I think with the tyd if we assistant, 2 members of the scion, I'd safety - leaning one way right now anyway and I public s some afety reservations and I wanted II to make sure everybody understood. Councilwoman Dimler: Is this study going to cost us anything? I Mayor Chmiel: Time. Councilman Johnson: There will be some cost in time. II Councilwoman Dimler: Yeah, but I mean money wise? Mayor Chmiel: I don't know dollarwise. II Don Ashworth: I don't anticipate any. I Mayor Chmiel: I wouldn't see any. Councilman Johnson: Unless they hire same kind of survey or same kind of an II outside expert to do sane kind of analysis of police needs but I don't see that. In my discussions with Al on this last year was that he thought this was a good idea and he wanted to, you know it comes up every year at police contract time. I Councilman Workman: I just don't think, every police contract time, I don't think we have any other options. II II 7 City Council Meeting - December 4, 1989 IICouncilman Johnson: I think one time they had a recommendation that at 12,000 i people I think it was, that we go to a police department. 12,000's not that far [. 1 off. 1 Mayor Chmiel: No. Councilman Workman: That tells you the effectiveness of the committee sometimes II maybe. Councilman Johnson: Yeah, but that was in like 1981 and this is 1989. The II world has changed. I think it's time to update sane of these things. I'd like to see the Public Safety Omission have a 5 year plan just like anybody else. I think this would be an essential part of it but there's other things. What's a CSO program going to do over the next 5 years? The crime prevention program. 1 What's the Fire Department's 5 year plan? I think all these things. We have to be looking more into the future. IIOouncilwonan Dimler: Shouldn't they be drawing up their own 5 year plan though rather than having a study commission? Councilman Johnson: This committee will help them in one of the most complex f 1 parts of that 5 year plan. They have a lot more than just police to worry about and I think it's important to have the sheriff's involvement. I agree with you, I think 2 members from the public would be good on this too. I'm backing your 9 1 people. It's getting a bit large but what the heck. What have they got in Congress? 360 sane. I never can remember that number. r- Mayor Chmiel: Okay, any other further discussion? If hearing none. Councilman Johnson: I move that we approve item 1(d) , formation of the i committee. Make the committee a 9 member committee with the assignments of 1 IISheriff Al Wallin, Chief Deputy Jim Castleberry, Asst. Public Safety Director, Scott Harr, Public Safety Director, Jim Chaffee, Public Safety Commissioners members Barb Klick and Bill Bernhjelm, Cbuncilmember Ursula Dimler and 2 members Iof the public at large to be advertised for and selected by the Council. Do we want selected by the Council or the Public Safety Commission select them? IMayor Chmiel: The Council has done it in the past. There's a motion on the i floor. Is there a second? It appears as though it's going to die for a second Jay. . Councilman Johnson: Okay. t Is it the 9 members or is it just the whole • committee altogether? Ursula, you want the Public Safety Commission to do it. 1 Councilwoman Dimler: My personal feeling is it's too early. . Councilman Johnson: I think we've got to collect the data. We shouldn't go 1 from gut feelings. We're assigning somebody to get us the numbers, the figures, to collect the data and make an informed decision, not a gut feeling. My gut feeling is we're a little early too but maybe it's my engineer training. I'd rather see the facts and figures before I make the final decision. IICouncilwoman Dimler: But like I stated earlier, we have the Public Safety Commission in place and that was the original intent of it. Right now I think 1 8 City Council Meeting - December 4, 1989 I it's yearly report. I just see a lot of conflict with itsctptothemtog�.veusa yearly po 7 it. Councilman Johnson: They're in support of this. 1 Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, they basically do support this portion of it. C uncilwoman Rimier: I see Dick Wing was not. Mayor Chmiel: Well that was a discussion at that particular meeting and I sat in on it. The entirety, as I recall, were basically for it. This kind of arrangement because it's involving two different segments of it. The City as well as the County. Councilman Johnson: If we didn't want the Public Safety Commission to do anything else, they could actually just sit there and work on this one issue the rest of the year. But we definitely want some other input too. , Councilwcrian Dimler: I'm just afraid that it's going to set a precedence for moving into the transition too early. Especially it scares me that we're supposed to have a report by sucmmer of 1990 which is what, 6-7 months away. It kind of sounds to me like we're rushing it. Mayor Chmiel: 'Would you rather have it be 1991? I Councilwoman Dimler: It's a 5 year study. Councilman Johnson: How about 6 month update reports as to what progress they're making? I don't like to give somebody a year and a half to do something...preliminary report every 6 months as to what progress they're making I and which way they're leaning so we have a feel instead of letting, here for the next year and a half you guys go study this issue and cane back to us with a presentation. That scares me too. I was kind of reading in this 1990 report as , kind of, hopefully present. It wasn't something cast in concrete. Chisseled in chalk maybe but not cast in concrete. Councilwoman Dimler: But isn't this something that the Commission can already do? Mayor Chmiel: The Commission has already gone through that process of looking at those aspects. What it boils down to having another set, another group to come in such as a sheriff's department. Councilwoman Dimler: That's the only thing that I can see that there's no representation on the Public Safety Commission right now from the Sheriff's Department. Perhaps that's all we need to do is add a rierber there. Councilman Johnson: I think the other thing is, this group will be focused. ' They will be singular in purpose. Same members of the Public Safety Cocmmission are there because they're concerned with the fire department and other things. I The Public Safety Commission has to worry about dog catching, code enforcement, building inspectors. They've got a huge agenda. This group will be focused to look at one issue. Became fully educated on that one issue and came and provide us guidance on that one issue. 9 • City Council Meeting - December 4, 1989 I ! II Mayor Chn►iel: Maybe you'd feel more comfortable with this. Saying that hopefully presenting to the City Council in the early summer_ of 1991 and then having, as Jay mentioned, preliminary reports every 6 months from that group. ICouncilman Johnson: Progress reports. IMayor Chmuel: I guess on something like that, that would be something that would be ongoing. They could look at it every 6 months to see if it's going to be cost effective or not. By getting that and including everything into that, of course you have to have hospitalization and all those other things combined. • I Councilwoman Dimler: So you're saying we could start the study of how much it's going to cost us? II Mayor Ch+uel: Yes. 11 ICouncilwoman Dimler: And then came up with a report by 1991? Summer of 1991? Mayor Chmiel: Right. ICouncilwoman Dimler: That would be more pleasing to me, yes. Councilman Johnson: Because one of the criteria the last Council put on this is ' when is the time going to be when the Sheriff's cost is going to be more than the cost for the City of Chanhassen to do it themselves. That's what we want to do is maintain the cost to the citizens, the quality of public safety at the 11 minimum. 11 Mayor Chmdel: Zbm►? IICouncilman Workman: No comments. Mayor Chniel: Alright. IICouncilman Johnson: We're doing a new motion here. Basically the same motion but modified with hopefully present a report to the City Council by the summer of 1991 with 6 month progress reports to the Council. IIMayor Chmiel: Is there a second? Okay, I'mm going to move it to second it. II Councilman Johnson moved, Mayor artiel seconded to appoint a police study 9 member committee with the assignments of Sheriff Al Wallin, Chief Deputy Jim ICastleberry, Asst. Public Safety Director, Scott Harr, Public Safety Director, Jim Chaffee, Public Safety Commissioners members Barb Klick and Bill Bernhjelm, Councilmer►ber Ursula Dirtier and 2 ribers of the public at large to be advertised for and selected by the Council. This committee will present a IIreport to the City Council by the summer of 1991 with 6 month progress reports. All voted in favor except Councilman Workman who opposed and the motion carried with a vote of 3 to 1. • • 10 . I Public Safety Commission Meeting ^ II November 9, 1989 - Page 41 IIHarr: Yes, through the schools. Klick: It was an excellent letter. It was very nice. I Wenzlaff: Yes, my daughter brought it home. I'm sorry, yes. Thank you for bringing that up. I had a note here and missed it. I- Jim we by-passed that hoping that you would be back in time cthat wee could II . discuss that so would you please kick that one off. I 7 A. CONSIDER RECOMMENDATIONS TO ESTABLISH A POLICE STUDY COMMITTEE. Chaffee: I'll take credit for this idea because it's all mine. It's II something that I've thought about for a long time. that have occurred both with this commission and with hothers ooutsideuthe ons • commission. Sheriff Wallin and I were supposed to do something to develop f` a study. It was suggested ggested that we do this back in January. We just quite frankly haven't had the time. Other issues have cropped up. I just thought it might be better if we could get a committee together made up of . myself, Sheriff Wallin, Scott Harr, Jim Castleberry, a member of the Public Safety Commission and I think it was 2 citizens at large to sit down and come up with a proposal to present to the City Council for police services for the City of Chanhassen. A 5 year plan, a 10 year plan. Something long range where we can avoid any of the controversy that has occurred in the II past. I think it's done right and it's well thought out and it's presented in such a manner where it's feasible, I think it will certainly help. Its just a recommendation I've got. I've run this by Sheriff II Wallin. I think you're in agreement with it Al? Al Wallin: Yes. II ill Chaffee: That it would just help us and we set some s now where we can come back to the City Council with whatever plan develop. II Al Wallin: • .. .I don't know if you'd want to delay this a month. It's my IIIunderstanding that Chief Young is doing some work that was prompted by a II mayor in his city to look at policing needs in Chanhassen. I guess it probably behooves us to wait until he gets this done because he has called me and said that it's just about completed. He does want to -meet with me IIIand so forth and go over some things. Get some information and I guess II what I'm saying is, why reinvent the wheel . If everything's there, we look at it and I guess one month delay won't make much difference to see what's going to happen with that. III I Klick: Who is Chief Young? III Mill Wenzlaff: Yeah, I was going to ask the same question. II Al Wallin: Chief Young from South Lake Minnetonka. II Klick: He's conducting study fo g a for Chanhassen? Ifil • II 41 Public Safety Commission Meeting November 9, 1989 - Page 42 Wenzlaff: Would somebody like to explain this? { Klick: Where did that come from? Chaffee: I talked to Chief Young today. Al, I don't know if you knew that. He has completed a preliminary draft of that report. I don't think it's going to help us in this case. It certainly would help us as ? '-something as a resource. certainly Audience. I think they're asking why. . . Wenzlaff: Yeah, where'd this all come from? This is news. Chaffee: It's a good question. 6 _ Boyt: Why don't we discuss this after the meeting. Wing: Why would we do that Bill? Wenzlaff: I think it's pertinent. Boyt: I would refer you to the third paragraph of Jim's memo and suggest that we don't need to talk about this. If you personally want some • background, I'd_say that's an excellent idea but I think for the Public Safety Commission, it's a mistake. Wenzlaff: I'm sorry. I'm missing. i don' t know what we don't need information on or what's a mistake. I'm missing something. Wing: Let's back up Wayne. I don't know what we're talking about. Wenzlaff: I don't either. I'm sorry. Boyt: I don't think South Lake's interest in Chanhassen is, and our police services, is a particularly good topic for the Public Safety Commission to talk about. I think if you're interested in it as an individual, fine. I think we're better off leaving these issues somewhere else. This is like deciding that you want to go out for a Sunday walk through a landmine field and I'm just encouarging you to not go on that walk. _ Klick: Are you talking about this or the South Lake? Boyt: No. I'm talking about the South Lake study. I think this is fine to talk about. Wenzlaff: I guess I don' t know anything about the South Lake study and since it was brought up, could it be summarized in a sentence? ' t Chaffee: I can. I don't know where it came from. It came from Mayor Haugan directed, as part of the South Lake committee, group of people who oversee that contract system, directed Chief Young to propose a study. That's it. III 11 • Public Safety Commission Meeting - r November 9, 1989 - Page 43 It Wenzlaff: With a view maybe that they could provide some services? II Chaffee: I would assume so. That 's at s all I know where it came from. i Al Wallin: That's ri ht I 9 I'd have to side with Jim here. We don't know what it's all about. That's the whole thing. II4 Wenzlaff: That's all I need to know right now. I just was curious as to, II we were getting a South Lake name brought up that had never been mentioned before. I il Wing: So you don't want me to ask why would another mayor from another city prompt their police chief to do a police study regarding Chanhassen? Is that right? I mean it's sort of news. I'm sort of sitting here, II II Al, what are your feelings on this? Al Wallin: I don't know. I don't know what prompted II I said, Chief Young and I are going to meet veryshortly herenything. Like I Wenzlaff: So apparently Chief Young contacted you or contacted Jim or both of you and said, we'd like to talk to you about police services to II 1 Chanhassen? Is that it in a nutshell? Al Wallin: I don't know if it's police services in Chanhassen or just to II I do a study on Chanhassen. In other words, are we providing I don't know what he's doing. I think that's what the meeting owill sbev all � about so I don't want you to get off on the wrong track here to think that they're going to come in and do your policing or whatever it is. I don't II I know. Wenzlaff: It would sound to me like, whatever that issue is, if it II involves public safety, a study that Jim is suggesting' appropriate regardless. Would anybody disagree with hatrstatement?inly IInick: This is excellent. Bernhjelm: Jim, why did you ou recommend 2 citizens at large rather than more representation from the Commission? Was there a reason? I f Chaffee: Well there is a reason. I u • s thinking of Clark Horn to be honest with you and itI'sbupytonthenMayor was II I guess to appoint the 2 people at large. I don t• even know how we want to develo thisabuttit s justnatsug I tad and � p � j ggestion. Bernhjelm: I was just wondering. I ' I 1 Wenzlaff: How do you feel Mr. Mayor about being citizens? Are you comfortable with that? g asked to appoint those 2 II Mayor Chmiel 's answer couldn't be heard on the tape. IIBoyt: I think one of the things to think about is why e Safety Commission exist. I thought you were all citizensat the lar Public myself m,sel f II 43 i ' ' ' : r ' "44 4 illi Public Safety Commission Meeting November 9, 1989 - Page 44 - il and happened to be reasonably well informed about the issues. I 've got some questions about the public safety, whatever it is, the traffic thing. Whatever we're calling that group of people. They have a citizen at large. That's a public safety issue. Why isn't that citizen somebody off this commission? I 'm not sure that it's a good idea or a bad idea but when I see, I just think that's what the Public Safety Commission is. It's il citizens out there and you've taken the time to become informed about this. Klick: Let's start with how much time you think would be involved outside of our regular commission meetings and how many people are interested. Maybe we'd start with that. Chaffee: My own opinion is that's going to take at least one meeting a month, if we want to set a goal of next July of a presentation to the Council . Certainly Sheriff Wallin and myself along with Scott and Jim could do a lot of the legwork and during the meetings when we meet is present you with the information and the alternatives. The data that you would seek. Klick: What does the Commission think? Wing: I support Jim's recommendation. Wenzlaff: I tend to side with Bill. I think that adding a citizen in there is a nicetouch probably from the standpoint of the fact that all of us are more intimately involved. Some of us are members of public safety and other areas, fire, police, whatever or have been in the past but I think if that citizen were really interested in becoming involved with it, it would be a citizen who might also be interested in becoming a member of this commission. I would encourage them to seek that membership if they .opportunity arises. I think it can be dealt with certainly the people involved from the agencies are appropriate and 2 or 3 laembers from the Public Safety Commission might be a better choice than bringing in another citizen. At least we have the knowledge. All of us have been here, most of a year or more and have the knowledge of some of the issues we deal with. It's educational at least to have gone through the controversy that IIsome of us have gone through with issues. You know Sheriff's department versus police department and I think we're all sensitized to the issue that we get defocused from time to time but we're all interested in the public safety needs of Chanhassen. By all I mean the Sheriffs department is Chan Public Safety and this group is and we probably would bring a better demeanor to the table having been embroiled in that controversy before and approach it from a more professional viewpoint of yes, we know this has been an issue before and we don't have to dredge up old things. We need to look at where we go in the future. Everybody has at 'least agreed that Chanhassen is going to need more public safety as time goes on. There's no illargument from any quarter on that. The only question is how that gets provided and in what manner, if there's going to be a change over and what manner that change over takes place. I agree with Bill , I think that's better addressed by this group of citizens than by anybody else we could bring in from the outside. AA Public Safety Commission Meeting - November 9, 1989 - Page 45 ... MI II Wing: I couldn' t disagree more. I think that you hit it right on the head II IIIWayne when you said we've been embroiled in controversy and that's taken away some of the objectivity. I think one member from this commission, a knowledgeable member of this commission. Someone familiar with what's III occurred. The history that's a professional in the field, whatever the II case is. I think we're talking pure facts. Pure objectivity and I think that can best be handled by the group as presented by Mr. Chaffee and I'll IIIcall for a motion at this time that we simply go along with Mr. Chaffee's II recommendation for the committee make-up. Chaffee: Mr. Chairman, may I make one point too. In fairness to Candy, II pi she did call me this evening and she indicated her support for my memo. Again, this is just a suggestion. What I 'm telling you is what Candy told NI me. She also indicated that it would be her desire to have somebody totally foreign to the police issue, that knew nothing about it. A totally II objective citizen from the community who did not have any prior background and those were her thoughts to me before the meeting tonight. IIII Wenzlaff: So would that not rule out Clark Horn? Oh, okay, I 'm sorry. We have a motion on the floor. Do we have a second? iii flick: Can we have more discussion on it or does there have to be a 11 second? , 5 Hoyt: Well the emotion dies for lack of a second so you're welcome to I discuss. flick: I just want to restate my question again. For the amount of time, II II I think we can go round and round about what's best. I think that the actual getting together of this committee is the most important thing and the members are kind of secondary, although that's am important piece. How many people here are interested in putting that much time forward? I'd be II interested in just seeing first of all if we have more than one person from Public Safety who'd be interested. IIII Wenzlaff: Would or could. flick: Would. Who would make the commitment to come another day a month II 5 starting December thru July? Bernhjelm: I could probably do it with some flexibility. I'll be on night II shift the next 6 months. I will have days essentially free so I could 'do some of the legwork also. Wing: It sounds like this is a far cry from the original police study in II II that there's so much professional staff involved in doing the research and then getting the findings. I dare say you could meet very often if you chose to. I 5 Wenzlaff: Did I hear that you'd be interested or available? IIWing: If there was a need, I'm always available. I 'm not necessarily I volunteering. .. II 45 Public Safety Commission Meeting r November 9, 1989 - Page 46 IIIKlick: Wouldn' t the commission be drawn in along the way as you see this Iliplan or would it just be these people that went about collecting data and. . . Would the commission be privy to this along the way or not? Do you see the plan just starting out there and ending up with a presentation to us of your facts and findings? Chaffee: I guess I haven't thought it that thoroughly thru yet but it can be worked either way. I mean my intention was to have this. Get it done. Present it like we would anything else, through the Public Safety Commission and then to the City Council but certainly we can tell you how we're doing as we go along. We're still going to be having our monthly meetings and we can give you whatever we have. I'm not sure it would be anything. Boyt: Well I would like to see it be made up of a subcommittee of members of the Public Safety Commission. And that as part of that there would be periodic reports back to the Public Safety Commission for other commission input as to what's happening. If we have 2 people that have an interest, I'd sure like to see those 2 people be on this. Wenzlaff: Would you care to try that in the form of a motion? Boyt: Well maybe there's interest in discussing it anyway. I would recommend that'fhis committee be recommended to the Mayor and that it consist of Sheriff Wallin, Jim Castleberry, Scott Harr and Jim Chaffee and 2 members of the Public Safety Commission. Bernhjelm: I'll second that. Klick: So no one outside? Just the 4 public safety officials and 2 people from the commission. Is that it? Boyt: Yeah. That's what I proposed. I think there would certainly be a need and plenty of opportunity hopefully for public input into this as it hits a stage where they've got something to have input about. What I would Itsee this group being is a group that is researching and creating a working document so people could respond to it. Wenzlaff: I agree. I see this as a professional group. and I .use the word professional to mean people who have a knowledge of the situation and can make informed decisions. I think having someone involved from the outside, unless they bring some professional value to this group, doesn't add anything. Bringing an uninvolved citizen in because they are uninvolved and have never been embroiled in the controversy, doesn't help us get a plan done down the road as to how this is going to happen. I think the people who are most able to put a plan together that's workable are the people mentioned and the value of the people on the Public Safety Commission is that they are not involved in it. We're not involved in it II full time. We aren't the officers on the street. We aren't the people who get our pay checks from the County or from the City and have to be cognizant of those details. I think Bill I agree with your point. I think it's exactly the right use of this group. 46 II Public Safety Commission Meeting r November 9, 1989 - Page 47 I . 1 Harr: I think you're seeing some attempts by Jim and I was part of the II discussion of this just to try to keep the calm that I think has finally come to the situation but frankly I agree with you 100%. I think they're good comments. II Wenzlaff: I think we've got the 4 professional people who are involved on II a day to day basis who need to give the most direction you would include Jim although he had to leave, Castleberry here. You have the • the ability from the computer and the data and the history to make the most informed decisions and the only controversy I see coming up in that is where we have a disagreement that is going to get dealt with I would hope II III and have every reason to expect on a professional level. That's where the members of the commission I think can be valuable. Where we don' t get our III pay checks from the City of Chanhassen nor one from the County and we can I perhaps bring a different perspective to it. Everyone here has a background in public safety or involvement in the city in some method. We've been involved in the medical side or the fire side or the police, III sheriff side and I question whether any citizen without. . . Any further discussion? Wing: Jim, obviously I'm not going to go anywhere with this. I just want I you to know that I think it's a very good recommendation and Scott I think, as far as myself is concerned, keeping the calm would never have been an IIIissue. I'm very accepting to what would occur in the u II have been involved or I would have trusted them to be verylobjective and very honest and I think perform this duty perhaps better than any of us could just because of our background and our involvement. I c I ill being as objective. That's my opinion. That's the end of mystatement. '' Wenzlaff: Further discussion? III • II Boyt moved, Wenzlaff seconded that the that a Police Study Committee be recommended ctoa the yMayor rand othat cit consist of Sheriff Wallin, Jim Castleberry, Scott Harr and Jim II II/ 2 members of the Public Safety Commission. All voted in m except Dick Wing who opposed and the motion carried. favor except Dick 11 III Wenzlaff: And unless anyone has anything else, I belieye that's the end of II our agenda. IIIWing: Before we close, I'm just curious llthese minutes. Bill you brought that up and rit's old business.goItiwas discussed a year and a half ago and a couple times we've mentioned h II Minutes and you mentioned it again tonight and I think they've b t e unwieldy. They're difficult to read. City Council has commented them being � II li g difficult to handle and looking at a couple other cities, it's not uncommon to not do it that way. That they record the Minutes and there's a tape available for anybody who cares to spend the time listening to it or IIif there's an issue they wish to pull out but the general, the motions and II the status of the meeting is in a more concise, readable manner. What's your intention Bill with these Minutes? II 47