CC 2013 11 25
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to
the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mayor Furlong, Councilman McDonald, Councilwoman
Tjornhom, Councilwoman Ernst, and Councilman Laufenburger
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Gerhardt, Laurie Hokkanen, Paul Oehme, Kate Aanenson, Todd Hoffman,
Greg Sticha, and Roger Knutson
PUBLIC PRESENT:
Brian and Jan Johnson 8120 Pinewood Circle
Chris Bagdons Highway 7
Dana Muller 8850 Sunset Trail
Mayor Furlong: Thank you and welcome everybody here in the council chambers as well as those
watching at home. We’re glad that you joined us this evening. At this time I would ask members of the
council if there are any recommended changes or modifications to the agenda. If not, without objection
we’ll proceed with the agenda as published. For those in the council chambers there are copies of the
agenda on the table there as well.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Mayor Furlong: I’d like to start with a public announcement and an invitation to attend the City of
Chanhassen’s annual tree lighting ceremony. With the holiday season approaching, I’m excited to invite
everyone to our annual Chanhassen tradition which is the lighting of the 2013 tree in City Center Park.
Presented by the City, Buy Chanhassen and the Mustard Seed Landscaping Company. It’s my pleasure to
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invite all residents, their families, friends to join us on Saturday, December 7 at 5:00 p.m. in City Center
Park. There’ll be people of all ages enjoying the activities, including the official lighting of the park.
Refreshments, caroling, gingerbread house displays, live reindeer and a special visit from Santa Claus.
The event is free. Registration is not required. Please just show up. Dress for the weather and come and
enjoy a great time as we light up our city park.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilman McDonald seconded to
approve the following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s recommendations:
1. Approval of City Council Minutes dated November 12, 2013.
2. Receive Planning Commission Minutes dated November 5, 2013.
3. Approve Agreement with MnDOT for Right-of-Way Settlement in Conjunction with the TH 5
Project.
4. Approve AFG Grant Application for Main Fire Station Exhaust System.
Resolution #2013-59:
5. Approve Resolution Certifying Hookup Charges, Sewer Access Charge
and Water Connection Charge.
Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS.
None.
LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIRE DEPARTMENT UPDATE.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Mr. Mayor, council, good evening. Over the past, can we get the, that’s not mine.
Technical difficulties. Thank you. Over the past few years we’ve worked together to educate our citizens
to eliminate temptations and opportunities for thieves stealing valuables out of cars. You may remember
some of those conversations we’ve had and get them to call the sheriff’s office or 911 immediately when
they see anything suspicious or out of the ordinary. Well, looking over the calls for service this weekend
we had a couple calls for service where people left items in plain sight and unfortunately they were
missing from their vehicles when they came back so it looks like we’ve got a little bit more work to do to
continue to educate our citizens here in Chanhassen. The good news though is tonight we’re going to
share a success story about a citizen who I’m confident heard our message and they witnessed suspicious
activity. Called the sheriff’s office to report it while it was occurring and we’re also going to update you
on a program that we’re currently participating in called the I Got Caught Program. That’s why we got
this guy here, Sergeant George Pufahl. He was on that call for service. The success story and he’s also
managing the I Got Caught program so I’m going to ask him to step up here and update you on that.
Sgt. George Pufahl: Hello.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
Sgt. George Pufahl: Good evening. I’m Sgt. George Pufahl. With some of the good work of our
deputies we were able to catch or get ahold of some people who were actually doing some car prowling or
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breaking into vehicles. On the 18 of November the 500 block of 79 Street here in Chanhassen, in the
area of the Glass Cleaners, Pizza Hut, over in that area if you get a visual. Deputies responded to a
suspicious activity call with a group of males, looked like they were peaking into car windows that were
in the parking lot area. Those individuals kept moving on east, subsequently going into the Holiday gas
station here in Chan. Deputies arrived on scene. Located those males inside the Holiday gas station.
Through their investigation those individuals actually started shoplifting from the Holiday gas station.
We located sandwiches. We located some cell phones that were on their persons, you know through the
investigation. While we were there a victim came over from the area of the Glass Cleaners. Came over
to us and said hey, I think my car was just broken into and I lost my cell phone or somebody stole my cell
phone. Well sure enough one of the cell phones recovered was his so with that case you know we called
Investigations. We interviewed everybody. We ended up arresting a person for a misdemeanor theft.
Tampering with a motor vehicle and possession of stolen property so kudos to the officers that were on
scene and worked very hard and the investigative team with Carver County Sheriff’s Office so. And the
citizen who called. I’m sorry. And the citizen who called and alerted us to the individuals walking
through the lot. If it wasn’t for citizens looking out for other people, it would make our job very difficult
so we really appreciate it when people do step forward and report suspicious activities to us so we can
follow up and investigate it. This could have been a scenario where we may not have recovered the
phone and so forth and these guys could have continued on and done more things throughout Carver
County and Chanhassen area so.
Mayor Furlong: So Sergeant who should people call if they see suspicious activity?
Sgt. George Pufahl: When they do just call 911.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Sgt. George Pufahl: If they feel it is not an emergency of some sort and try to find that number it might
be too late. It’s best to just dial 911 so we can go ahead and act on it right away. It actually helps us
tracking where that phone call came from as well so then we know the location, just in case the call gets
disconnected and so forth so we can respond.
Mayor Furlong: So people think 911’s for an emergency but in this situation suspicious activity, if they
want somebody to respond.
Sgt. George Pufahl: Absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: 911 is the call.
Sgt. George Pufahl: Yep. Call 911. I’d prefer that. I’d say it’s the best way to get ahold of us.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, very good.
Sgt. George Pufahl: And then there’s a positive program that we’re taking part. It’s called the I Got
Caught program. It’s with AAA has been sponsoring it. It’s a way to help educate teens on safe driving.
Safe driving behavior and activities and in the summertime we give out ice cream. Ice cream from Dairy
Queen and so forth. The coupons so if we see you know little kids or somebody doing something good or
wearing their helmets, we’ll give them one of these coupons for wearing their helmets because they’re
doing something that’s good and safe and they’re not going to get hurt. Specifically for this program here
it’s, we are targeting teens wearing their seat belts so we want to reward the teens for you know, for
wearing the seat belts and I got ahold of several cards from AAA and like I said, a lot of times we spend a
lot of time enforcing seat belt laws and educating. Again this is a way that we can build positive
relationships with the community and with the teens in our community. I gave these cards, they’re
basically little cards. They’re music download cards that they have to go through the AAA website.
They register and on there is a ton of great information for them about safety and our SRO. Our School
Resource Officer at the Chanhassen High School was in the lot watching the kids come in and when he
see them after they got parked he said here you go and explained to them the program and they were
extremely appreciative of the card, plus free music. Who’s going to complain about that and it was very
well received so.
Mayor Furlong: So you weren’t pulling them over.
Sgt. George Pufahl: No.
Mayor Furlong: They might be a little nervous if that was the case.
Sgt. George Pufahl: Yep, no, no. We want to keep it as positive and as friendly as we can so our, it was,
it’s just yes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, sounds like a great program. Good, thank you.
Sgt. George Pufahl: Thank you.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Alright, I really think and I really like the positive reinforcement philosophy in that last
program that George talked about and the McDonald’s program and what I want to do is take this idea
and expand it into our community here in Chanhassen. So what I’ve done is I’ve challenged the
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Chanhassen Sergeants and I’ve asked Beth Hoiseth to brainstorm and think of other programs we could
implement in the community next year that practices this philosophy of positive reinforcement. I’m really
excited about this and I think it’s going to strengthen the already positive relationship that we have with
our community members and as we move forward identify, develop and implement these programs I’ll
keep the council updated as we do that so that is our presentation for tonight. Any questions?
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for Lieutenant Enevold and the staff report? Common
question, I see continued trends of calls for service, especially Part I and Part II crimes in 2013 being
lower than last year. Are you seeing a trend there or it’s just.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: I think that’s kind of the trend, well at least in Carver County and I haven’t looked at
other communities or comparison communities. I’ll do that at the end of the year and bring that back to
you probably in January or February.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. That sounds good. Trend in the right direction. Great. Thank you.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Chief Wolff is here this evening with some other members of our fire department. Good
evening Chief.
Chief John Wolff: Good evening Mayor. Good evening council. Year to date our calls are up 8%. Last
year if you recall we were down off of the average so we’re pretty much plugging along where we would
expect to be. We’re probably going to hit 550 calls which has kind of been our average over the last 5
years. Myself and I asked Chief Siems, Jeff Siems. We just returned from Liberia in Africa. We were on
a mission with an organization called the Fire Rescue Alliance and I know there’s a pretty busy calendar
tonight so, but we would like to take a few minutes maybe at a future meeting where we could kind of
share some of that experience with the council.
Mayor Furlong: That’d be fine.
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Chief John Wolff: Great. So I left on the 2 of November and got back on the 16 and while I was gone
this town was pretty busy with a lot of fire activity so the rest of my team which I’ll introduce shortly was
pretty involved. Just to give you a rundown, we had a pretty major car fire down in the lower Y with a lot
of wind so the chance of spreading into the woods down there but we were able to contain that fire.
Behind the Dinner Theater we had a dumpster fire that was somewhat challenging. We had a mutual aid
to Carver. Not Carver County but the city of Carver for a large commercial building they had burning
down there. The day I got back Excelsior Fire had a real big fire on the lake up in Deephaven. Up in
Cottagewood. We had 2 chimney fires while I was gone and I think the day after I got back we had a car
versus house incident and unfortunately one of our residents had a heart attack and passed away but that
first arriving officer found not only a medical emergency going on that the deputies and the paramedics
were working but the garage was filling up with smoke and it was spreading. It turned into a car fire
which we were able to contain. And then last Thursday we had a 3 alarm fire out on Leslee Curve. So
Chanhassen is the first alarm. I was going to say to Lieutenant Enevold the deputy, and I don’t have the
deputy’s name who arrived first before any of our personnel did an excellent job of providing a size up of
what we had so it kind of told us this was going to be a tough fire so he did an excellent job providing that
information. We ended up calling in, so the second alarm in that area brings in Victoria, Chaska and
Excelsior. Each with a unit and then because of the stubbornness of the fire we were going to be, and we
were there for almost 3 hours, we brought in Shakopee, Minnetonka, and Eden Prairie on the third alarm
so kind of standard operating. When we went to Carver, I think we were their second or third alarm so it
kind of, and when we went to Excelsior same deal there so it kind of goes both ways and the mutual
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
relationships we have are definitely beneficial to all the fire departments. I did want to take a minute and
just quickly ask my two new assistant chiefs. Ed Coppersmith and Rick Rice stepped down and replaced
them with John Murphy and Cori Wallis and if they would just come up and just kind of quickly
introduce themselves if that’s okay and.
Mayor Furlong: Please. Good evening.
Asst. Fire Chief John Murphy: Mayor, council. John Murphy. I’ve lived in Chanhassen since 1984.
I’ve been on the fire department since 1991 so 21 plus years and my previous role here was battalion
chief and with this new promotion I’ll pretty much be in charge of personnel and officer and fire fighter
development. In my other role with my other job I’m a police officer at the City of Minneapolis and have
been with them for 17 plus years and for them I am a canine handler so it’s a pleasure to be here.
Mayor Furlong: Great. Thank you.
Asst. Fire Chief Cori Wallis: Mayor, council, I am Cori Wallis. I’m recently appointed Assistant Chief
of all the stuff, as John calls it so basically fire station’s equipment, fire trucks, anything that we need to
do our job I’m in charge of. I’ve been with the fire department almost 17 years. Grew up in Eden Prairie.
I’ve been here since ’95. I work full time for the City in the Utility department and that’s about it.
Mayor Furlong: Very good.
Councilman Laufenburger: Cori?
Asst. Fire Chief Cori Wallis: Yes sir.
Councilman Laufenburger: I haven’t had an opportunity to say this to you but I think were you not
involved in initiating some of the activity that sent the fire truck to New York?
Asst. Fire Chief Cori Wallis: Yes. I took the initiative. We saw it on Facebook about a little over a year
ago and we sent that truck to Broad Channel Volunteer Fire Department.
Councilman Laufenburger: Good results from that?
Asst. Fire Chief Cori Wallis: Oh yeah. If you go on, if you look them up on Facebook, they’re online
with all kinds of stuff. That truck is their front line pumper and they love it.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, well congratulations and thank you for your initiative on that. Thanks
Cori.
Asst. Fire Chief Cori Wallis: You’re welcome.
Mayor Furlong: Good point, thanks. Thank you.
Chief John Wolff: Just a final item from the fire department. It’s been busy in November and this is kind
of we call it fire season. It starts typically with the holidays. A lot of fires. Almost half the fires that start
in homes are cooking related fires and there’s lots of cooking that occurs during the holiday season so I
just want to send out just you know ask the residents to be careful. Be careful with candles. Be careful
with the decorations. Where you place Christmas trees relative to fireplaces and so forth and of course be
very careful with cooking so I’ll take any questions if you have any.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Thank you Chief. Any questions for Chief Wolff tonight? Very good, thank you very
much.
Chief John Wolff: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: We’ll look forward to hearing your report on your trips.
Chief John Wolff: Absolutely, thanks.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Let’s move on to our items of new business.
CHANHASSEN PIONEER CEMETERY, 8151 GALPIN BOULEVARD: REVIEW OF CITY
CEMETERY PROPERTY AND OPERATIONS PER SECTION 2-46.03(5) OF CITY CODE,
APPLICANT/OWNER: CITY OF CHANHASSEN.
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. This item did appear before the
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Planning Commission on their November 5 meeting. The Planning Commission was acting under their
powers and duties as really advisory role. As I stated in your cover memo there, there were 5 members
that participated in the discussion. One member was absent and one recused himself as being a neighbor
in that neighborhood so while they didn’t take a formalized vote, they collectively came their opinion on
that and I think we’ll summarize that here in a minute so they did listen to the comments from the
neighborhood and expressed concern. They felt that it was a cemetery and since it had been established
for a long time felt strongly that it was a cemetery but they did express concerns regarding the visual
impacts. The tree loss, parking and economic impact so we’ve got some additional information for you
on that which we’ll go through in the meeting here tonight. In addition to that, regarding the parking
concerns and on Galpin we believe the number of parking spaces, the peak demand would not change
over time in how it’s being functioned. Again there’s no lighting at that cemetery and how it’s being used
a number of burials in any given year. So the County did stripe that road and kind of did it in the field.
Kind of did a field design so it is a surmountable curb. Cars can pull off the road but we can look at that
area, extending that a little bit further to the east to accommodate, excuse me, taking the service road to
accommodate maybe a hammer head turn around. That main drive that would go in. That would also
accommodate some additional parking there so don’t believe that is a concern. And then in addition the
staff is looking for direction from the City Council regarding the future planning for a columbarium on
the site. A columbarium is a vault with, it’s just for urns containing ashes so this item was not included at
the Planning Commission. Again the Planning Commission was really kind of looking at the transition
and the neighborhood issues so again looking at the long term development of the cemetery so just
looking for some feedback on that. So I’ll go through the staff report as presented to the Planning
Commission with some of those updates.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Kate Aanenson: Again the location of the site, 8151 Galpin Boulevard. The surrounding neighborhood
in the Timberwood subdivision is zoned RR, larger lots. 2 1/2 acre lots and then the surrounding lots to
the south of them would be RSF, the residential single family. The Timberwood Estates, the RR zoning
district is where this is located. Kind of zoomed in on that area. The original part of this cemetery was
actually established in 1861 and when the Timberwood Estates was platted back in the 1987-88 there was
discussion about including this because there was actual burials in this part at that time so the City had, or
the cemetery itself had already established rights for use of that property. There was discussion with the
Timberwood plat to actually acquire more property. At that time, as in our large lot you have to have 2
1/2 acre minimum. The developer would have lost a lot so at that time this property was then extracted
and donated and included as part of the cemetery so therefore those plots that were already had burials on
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
them were included in the cemetery so the original boundaries of the cemetery went to, where we’re
showing today and I think that is one of the discussion points that the Planning Commission felt like it’s
kind of that, that is the limits of the cemetery. The other discussion was on existing trees. Location of
trees. Changing the character of the cemetery itself. Certainly low density, low density as we look at our
zoning ordinance we don’t require typical buffering on this but certainly being a good neighbor that was
one of the discussion points that we wanted to get input from the neighbors was, transitional buffering or
landscaping between existing uses so the forester did go out and identify, there’s 32 trees on the eastern
property line and only 8 of them are of desirable species or of size, and many of those are box elders,
poplar, or ash and these trees may be small or maybe not be structurally sound so the goal would be then
to clean up some of those trees from the site and then work with trying to be a good neighbor there and
provide adequate buffering. Meeting with the neighbors along the southern and the western, excuse me
the eastern property line to make sure that there’s adequate buffer there.
Councilman Laufenburger: Kate?
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Before you go forward. Could you just point out the property line, the
property corners of the cemetery?
Kate Aanenson: Sure. It’s the, I don’t know if you can see.
Councilman Laufenburger: That’s to the north.
Kate Aanenson: Yep.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah. That’s to the east.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah. I’ll have another drawing here that will show it.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, is there, oh okay. Alright.
Kate Aanenson: So this is the original and then this was added on where there was already the burials in
this, yeah.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: And then question for you too on this picture. Some of the trees have a red label. Some
have a black label.
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: What’s the difference?
Kate Aanenson: The red are the ones to be proposed, there are some trees out there that are larger but
they’re, they’re fragile. They could fall down. We’ve had a tree fall down out there recently so just
looking at that, or they’re not in good healthy shape.
Mayor Furlong: So the trees that you looked at, if I’m doing my quick count, the red ones number about
8 or 9 or something.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Approximately.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, and those would be, the proposal is for them to be preserved or.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Trimmed up if necessary but preserved correct. And getting a lot of the
buckthorn that’s out there cleared up.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you.
Kate Aanenson: And I’ll show you on this, some of those trees are in this green area right here so if you
look at in the staff report, we identify there’s 720 graves in this area that’s kind of the yellow, but of that
720 only 612 are actually being used. Some of them are, have existing trees or encumbered otherwise so
this green area is where on the south and then the east is where there’s clearly right now a lot of
buckthorn and some undesirable trees.
Councilman Laufenburger: And of the green, the green is platted for grave sites?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And have any of those been sold?
Kate Aanenson: I don’t think so.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: So what we’re talking about then is this red area for continuation of development so
that’s approximately, if you took the dimensions of the site along this is about 275 feet here so that we’re
talking the 60 feet in additional right here so there is a property corner here which we talked about. When
this subdivision, Lukewood Drive put in, a retaining wall was put in place and that retaining wall plunked
right over the property corner right here so one of our recommendations would then be to actually
resurvey that and get that corner pin marked out there so we would know the, identify the limitations of
that property corner. So within that then we would work to create additional buffer along this property.
There’s probably about 10 feet in there and along this property line here to provide additional buffering.
Again working with the neighbors to find out the adequate screening. The best places for those trees
where we’ve done that, or shrubs for view sheds and the like to see where the best place for those would
be. We talked about the economic, kind of the cost summary that we looked at and we talked about a
little bit of surveying other cities so I think the main point here is that the cemetery itself operates in the
positive and we expect that to be true going forward into the future so our intent is to look at a rate for the,
a change in revenue for the rate that we charge resident and non-resident rate so that was factored into the
formula itself here. The resident rate and then the non-residential rate per plot. And then looking at those
rates we went through and looked at our key financial cities and looked at what they were charging for the
plots itself. So I didn’t include that. It is in your packet but if you had questions on that I can go through
that or the City Manager can talk to that too so again operating in the positive. We believe that will
continue into the future so with the outcome of that we would continue to work with the neighborhood.
I’ll go to the recommendation then. We’d want to survey the property. Work on the tree removal and the
grading and get the perimeter landscaped immediately as that, as soon as we would clean it and then again
work with the neighbors and then we talked about that drive, the main drive so people could park in there
without backing out. That we create some sort of a turn around or a hammer head at the end of that and
then we’d establish fees for the graves. $200 for Chanhassen residents and $500 for non-residents. We
often have family members here that want their parents at this cemetery closer so with that I’d be happy
to answer any questions that you have.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Thank you, questions for staff. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: So Kate can you talk a little bit more about the parking because I know that there
were some concerns with the parking.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah right now people park along this street right here and then they would park, there’s
a driveway here, we would continue that and then put somewhere in here a turn around. Again most,
because there’s no lights at this cemetery you know it’s pretty low key. We talk about there’s 6-8 burials
a year so you don’t have normally, that doesn’t mean people aren’t visiting but you wouldn’t have the
same number of people as you would go for a burial. As you would that someone would want to go place
flowers or go visit a grave. That’s you know one or maybe two cars that would come sporadically but as
far as the burial itself would be different.
Councilwoman Ernst: So was it the logistics of the parking or was it the capacity of the parking that was
the concern?
Kate Aanenson: Well I think some of it people commented on the striping itself but we believe you know
if there is a larger group they typically contact with the sheriff’s office just as they would at the St.
Hubert’s Cemetery if they needed extra security or extra parking controls or something like that.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. And staff feels that there’s, that it’s very adequate?
Kate Aanenson: For the few times.
Councilwoman Ernst: The way it’s designed.
Kate Aanenson: For the six times a year, yes.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Other questions? Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Kate can you just talk a little bit about, you use the
term buffering versus the term setback. Is there any setback requirements along these property lines?
Kate Aanenson: No, not by ordinance. No.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: This is governed by the city ordinance so it’s, was incorporated back when the City
adopted a separate regulatory control on that and that’s Chapter 8 of the City Code. Cemetery, there was
no setback for any buffer setback.
Councilman Laufenburger: So the buffer, the buffer is not required.
Kate Aanenson: The way our zoning ordinance reads today, no. Between low density land uses. But
again we, you know there’s a visual impact certainly recognize going both ways.
Councilman Laufenburger: Sure.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Kate Aanenson: Someone in their back yard looking across or in their front yard looking across or
someone that would be in the cemetery looking across at an active area so I think just putting some
landscaping in there.
Councilman Laufenburger: So your plans essentially include using the property as shown here on the
screen. Using the property up to the property line except 10 feet of buffer on the east side and the south
side, is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: And how about the north side?
Kate Aanenson: The north side the plots go right to the property line on that side.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And those are, those are grave plots that have been in place for a long,
long time, right?
Kate Aanenson: The yellow ones would be, yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah the yellow ones. Okay.
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: So the green and red which you show are just following that same line.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Kate, you talked about, in the report you talked about an
anticipated rate of usage that essentially if we build out the green and the red this will go for about 27
years approximately depending upon.
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Sales of course and how many people go in there. After that how
would you, how would you support the maintenance of the cemetery? Would it just be maintained by city
staff?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. That’s how it is today.
Councilman Laufenburger: And today the cemetery is a property. The City hires city staff or we don’t
hire them but we incur the cost of maintaining by using city staff, meaning park and recreation for
mowing and stuff like that.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct and that was built into that cost summary, yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And also if somebody in the winter somebody wants to open a site, is
that opening of the hole to bury an individual, that is a cost incurred by the people who own the lot is that
correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Okay. That was all I had for right now. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions? Councilman McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Kate you talk about the fee being $200 and $500. Are those one time fees or are
they continuing fees?
Kate Aanenson: I’m not sure.
Todd Gerhardt: It would be a one time fee for the plot and then there are some additional costs to locate
the plot corners and that’s the, I think it’s the $50 for that and then the funeral director, or whatever
funeral home that they may work with, there’s additional cost in digging the grave and any special patrol
of officers that is needed.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, but there’s no annual fee for like maintenance or any of those things, is
that right?
Todd Gerhardt: No.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. Now the other thing within the red zone is where, well I guess the red
and the green zone is where most of the trees are at. By the time that we would take those down, is it also
your plan to kind of redo the landscaping that you know we could now either sod or so grass seed and
actually grow some grass in that area?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. I think the best way to do it is to, to grade it now and then get the re-establish
the trees as soon as possible instead of trying to do it incrementally. Trying to get in there and so you’ve
got that. Everybody knows what they agreed to. What works for buffering and get in there and grade it.
Get the seed established.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. That’s all the questions I have.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any other questions at this time? Ms. Aanenson, just a few questions.
Follow-up questions. There is no lighting currently in the cemetery, is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: And there’s no proposal at this time to add any lighting.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then with regard to the landscaping along the east and southern property
lines, is it your expectation to work with the neighbors to identify where in terms of the location of the
types of either shrubs or trees that would be part of that landscaping. That buffer.
Kate Aanenson: Yes. It would be our goal then to have a neighborhood meeting and then those that have
the visual impact, to work to try to provide the best location of vegetation for those purposes.
Mayor Furlong: Is it part of the plan to completely obstruct the view of the, from the, along those…
Kate Aanenson: Well the best we can I think we want to look at, to make it also aesthetically pleasing
you know so, yeah.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: So it could include perhaps some shrubs. Some overstory trees along the property line.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Might be some of the options.
Kate Aanenson: Yes because I think in the summer it’s you know, you obviously see less of it so trying
to do all deciduous, I’m not sure, you know try to find that right mix. Working with the City Forester on
that recommendation.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Can we talk a little bit more about the columbarium and just the
thoughts there. And that’s obviously not included in this site plan currently.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: So that might be something that we’d have to.
Kate Aanenson: Something we would come back in the future.
Mayor Furlong: We could come back and talk about.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, just to get your thoughts on that and then we would come back at a future date
with more information about that. Cost and that sort of thing so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: So just kind of maybe just a read if that’s something that you may want to consider.
Mayor Furlong: Currently if someone chooses cremation they’re buried in half of a grave plot correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. And only 2 per grave.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, and with the picture in our staff report it looks like for the land area there’d be
much more availability for these niches, or there’d be more niches for the given area taken up by the
columbarium than half of a grave site.
Todd Gerhardt: That’s correct and you know a columbarium can be built to whatever size that you feel is
appropriate and if this is something the council would like to see incorporated as we work with the
neighborhood down the line on landscaping, maybe discussions with them on location also would be part
of that discussion.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Thank you.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Just a comment on that. I think the some sort of accommodation for what
seems to be a trend towards cremation would be very appropriate. I’d like to have some facts, whether it
be from funeral directors or people who know the business. You know what’s the trend? What’s the pace
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
at which cremation is being you know considered as an alternative but I think that just considering, if its’
done well and done in a very solemn way I think this columbarium, which is a new word for me. I always
thought it was a mausoleum but I mean words change. I mean selfie wasn’t in the dictionary a month ago
right? So I think that, I think it’s consideration that I’d like to give that some real strong consideration so
thank you Kate for offering that up.
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: The question I would have on that, is it possible to build that as part of a wall at
the back side and incorporate all that into it and that also could be used as part of a buffering between the
properties?
Kate Aanenson: I think that’s something we’d probably want to work with adjoining property owners to
see, for visual impact where it might be a good spot for that. If that’s something that would maybe have a
few more visitors. Maybe be more centralized so that’s something we would again I think to Councilman
Laufenburger’s point, I think finding out more where the trends, the size and trying to, what that means as
far as you know where that would be best suited on the site.
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Another question with regard to finances, and you brought up the information. I know
that was a question that was asked at the Planning Commission. About the costs and either Mr. Gerhardt
or Ms. Aanenson, can you give us a quick summary of the analysis and from a high level standpoint and
the results of your estimate?
Todd Gerhardt: Sure. Well using the current rates you would have about $64,800 dollars in additional
revenue that would be derived over the 27 years, and that’s basically following the current pattern of one
grave per month. That’s what we’ve been averaging for the past 15 years and if you go with the proposed
rate change and just using two-thirds is residents and a third is non-resident, going with $500 per plot and
$200 per plot for a resident and the $500 for non-resident, that would get you at $98,400. To develop the
project you’re looking at approximately $12,000. Site prep, survey costs and landscaping. Long term
maintenance, we’re looking at currently it’s about $722 a year or $1.18 per grave and then adding the 324
additional graves, that would drive it up to about $1,100. And it takes about 2 hours for the crew to mow
and prep the site. It’s in our rotation for mowing like our neighborhood parks and so we use a lot of
summer help in handling that. Currently we have about $38,850 in grave or plot sales from 1999 to 2013.
We did make some capital improvements. The arch. The lettering. The landscaping. Stone work to the
entry to the cemetery and that dollars were spent out of current reserves of $28,556. So currently using
today’s dollars you have about $58,250 cash on hand. You take into account previous capital projects.
The expansion or development of the rest of the cemetery, you’re at $56,924 so that leaves you a net
$1,325. But what was not taken into account were the additional 12 years between 1999 and ’87 when
the City took the cemetery over, and that roughly using $200 and 12 plots per year is an additional
$28,800 so you do have after the development out of the cemetery you do have roughly $30,000 cash on
hand.
Mayor Furlong: And going forward the annual revenue less the annual expenses, there’s a surplus there?
Todd Gerhardt: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: A projected surplus on an annual basis.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Projected revenue.
Mayor Furlong: I think it’s just at the bottom of this screen.
Councilman Laufenburger: $1,300?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes. I kind of added that into my $28,800 to the $30,000.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, and that would be on an annual, on a per year basis. Annual basis. I know that
was a question asked at the Planning Commission but they didn’t have the information for it so I wanted
to.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah and it’s typically, the Planning Commission doesn’t usually get into the economic
part of it so we.
Mayor Furlong: Fully understand.
Kate Aanenson: Left that up for the City Council.
Mayor Furlong: More of a use. Property use standpoint.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Thank you. There was a public hearing held at the Planning
Commission. We’ve certainly read those comments as well. As well as the comments from the planning
commissioners. This is not a public hearing but I guess my question is if there’s anything, new
information from members of the public based upon what was presented tonight that they’d like to
provide comments on, we’d certainly take public comments. Mr. Allen, if you’d like to come to the
podium.
Doug Allen: Mayor, council members, good evening. My name’s Doug Allen. I live at 2250 Lukewood
Drive which is on the southern edge of the property. Couple quick points and then just one thing in the
motion that I would like to clarify or get some assurances on. The motion, well first of all my point is. I
think that the economics are, I think the plots are priced way below market. Is there anything that would
prevent any individual or group of individuals from buying all of them in mass at one time?
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Gerhardt, do you want to talk a little bit about the, and the policies for resale there as
well?
Todd Gerhardt: Anybody buying a plot has to get a title from the City. You can not resale the lots
without the City’s approval so the City basically has the first option to purchase the plot back from the
family.
Doug Allen: Alright.
Mayor Furlong: And just to clarify, we purchase, the City has the right to purchase it back at either the
cost paid or the current cost whichever is lower so there’s no opportunities for investments here.
Doug Allen: Okay. I noticed in the comparisons, the average of the other comparison lots, many of
which seem to be church owned. There’s about $650, somewhere in that neighborhood and then just on
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
my own research and plots that my family has elsewhere, the market really seems to be more in the
$1,500 up to some that my family own that are $4,000. Why so low? I mean that’s a question that I have
I think from a revenue standpoint for the City that’s probably too low. And then does that change the rate
then at which these will sell if they were priced more fairly in the market so I think that should be
factored in and taken into consideration. And then my other concern that I have as a property owner, the
motion says that, it does say installation of a landscape buffer on the southern, eastern and southern
property lines but the report really just speaks to, we’ll try to do it. We’ll work with the City. Can we get
some assurances that there will be a buffer, especially from my point of view, on the southern edge.
We’d like to make sure that the language in the motion is a little stronger that says, that will be done
versus the report which really just says, we’ll look at it. So those are the concerns.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Ms. Aanenson.
Kate Aanenson: …when it went to Planning Commission. The motion as proposed up here that says
installation of landscape buffer. If Mayor if you, you know we could modify that to say you know work
with the neighbors too.
Doug Allen: And that’s fine. I mean I like that wording because it gets stronger.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, we changed that from the Planning Commission.
Doug Allen: And I just want…
Kate Aanenson: Our intent is to work with the neighbors to get that.
Doug Allen: Yeah, that is stronger than the report says. The report’s a little bit softer so…
Mayor Furlong: Well for clarification as well, just to be clear that a buffer doesn’t necessarily mean
completely.
Doug Allen: Right. No, no I understand that.
Mayor Furlong: Visual obstruction and that you won’t see anything so. But it’s working to see where’s
the best place to maybe plant some bushes or some trees and what works for both sides. People at the
cemetery as well as the neighbors.
Doug Allen: And just as a point, the City’s getting a good deal on whoever’s doing their tree service
because I saw there’s 22 or 24 trees that need to be removed and I just had trees removed from my yard at
a cost of $800 per tree and mathematically at the retail rate that’d be about $20,000 to remove those trees
and I think there’s only $5,000 in the report so that’s a good deal.
Kate Aanenson: We do a lot of tree removal and we do a lot of tree pruning in the city so we have
competitive bids.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you.
Jan Johnson: Good evening. I’m Jan Johnson. I live at 8120 Pinewood so we’re the property directly
east, if you could show actually that picture. One of the comments I’d like to readdress is the parking. So
the picture that’s actually shown there was taken quite a while ago. That road, Galpin was redone so
there is now a turn lane down the middle of that highway so the shoulders are no longer wide enough to
park on so the parking plan as I read it in the document is that directly in front of the cemetery it’s a
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
surmountable curb so there are a few number of cars that could pull up on the boulevard to park and
there’s no other parking that is wide enough for a car on any of the side streets or the rest of Galpin
around that so that’s a very, I think a high concern. That’s a 45 mile an hour road so having people park
on the curb, in the road, 45 miles an hour I think is just not a good situation or safety issue for the
residents as well as the people attending funerals so. I also just want to make a point that the cemetery’s
very quaint. It is a pioneer cemetery. There are re-enactments. Taking all of the trees and the natural
buffer in terms of the shrubs away from that is a big change to that cemetery so I don’t know if you all
have had an opportunity to be in that cemetery but it would, excuse me. I have a cold. It would very
much change the look of that cemetery and the natural canopy of the trees and the shade around those
properties as well as the cemetery so there’s something about putting a 10 foot buffer right in terms of
you know 10 feet of landscaping is not the same as having 30 feet or more of natural wooded buffer so I
think if people could just consider that in terms of not only what it’s doing to the properties around but
how much it’s changing the cemetery itself. As well as the loss of 24 trees so thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Councilman Laufenburger: Ms. Aanenson, just a comment on Ms. Johnson’s question. Are there any
parking restrictions on the north side of Lukewood Drive?
Kate Aanenson: It’s a public street so there’s no parking, yeah.
Councilman Laufenburger: So it’s a public street.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So that means no parking restrictions at this time?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: And I think the same is true on Galpin isn’t that right?
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Okay, thank you. Any other comments that weren’t included at the
Planning Commission?
John Noller: Council members, Mayor, thank you for your time.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
John Noller: My name’s John Noller. I live at 2381 Timberwood Drive. I’m the guy just to the north
and first and foremost, if moving forward, if you guys do approve this plan I would very, I would like you
guys to consider very much adding some buffer also to the north. There are several trees that will be
removed in the green and red area and that would certainly decrease, I mean it would make viewing that
much worst for us and I think that if everybody else is getting some buffer, we should probably get a little
buffer as well. At least some consideration for it.
Mayor Furlong: Question for you.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
John Noller: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: There’s a fence line behind your house, is that correct?
John Noller: That’s our fence, yep.
Mayor Furlong: That’s your fence? Is that at the property line or is that inside?
John Noller: It’s just inside our property line.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. So there’s already some trees and along the entire section there, are
there not?
John Noller: There are thinning and as you move further back where the green and red areas are, that is
much more dense and so if you are going to be removing trees there you’re now removing density from
that area.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
John Noller: And just a quick comment about, and I just want to clarify something. Low density for your
purposes means that it’s low traffic, correct?
Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson, if you want to correct that. It’s the number of homes per acre I believe.
Kate Aanenson: And it also would be you know looking at the type of use and how it’s being used.
Again there’s no night time traffic there. You know typically when you have a single family house that
generates the most trips, people coming and going throughout the day so there’s not as many trips to this
site as there would be too.
John Noller: We spend a lot of time on our deck, which is looking straight over the cemetery and there
are a lot of people that go through that. It’s a very cool thing to see. A lot of our neighbors making trips
through the cemetery. Whether it’s on evening walks in the summertime so it’s fairly busy. Might not be
a lot of burials there but there is a fair amount of foot traffic and I just should make you guys away of that
because we’re out there pretty much every night. At least during the summertime. Not now.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Noller you said that’s cool. Does that mean you like to see the traffic?
John Noller: I think it’s great that it’s being used. If the cemetery’s there and we enjoy the cemetery
being there. There’s a lot of history. I’ve taken my daughter over there and it’s great to go over and talk
about the history and the story behind the cemetery. I think it’s great that it’s being there. I just don’t
think that when you have a historical piece like that, I just don’t think it needs to be expanded upon and
Walmartized if you will. Sometimes bigger is not better.
Councilman Laufenburger: I’m trying to understand. Do you object to seeing the people in the
cemetery?
John Noller: No, I think it’s great that people are in there seeing what’s there already.
Councilman Laufenburger: When you’re on your deck, do you object to seeing the people in the
cemetery?
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
John Noller: No.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you.
John Noller: A point that I’d like to make that I didn’t bring up at the Planning Commission is that when
our daughter was born 7 years ago I started to look into our drinking water because like many of our
neighbors, actually all of our neighbors in the Timberwood area, we’re on wells. With the addition of 324
grave sites being added, I’m sure you guys have done an environmental impact study on how these
graves, additional graves will affect our drinking water. Yes?
Kate Aanenson: I don’t believe they’re deep enough to affect your drinking water.
John Noller: So the study has been done?
Kate Aanenson: I don’t believe there’s an impact.
John Noller: Okay, there are several studies out and I’d just like to, if I may quote from one of the studies
that talks about how cemeteries can contaminate the ground water. Okay?
Mayor Furlong: That’s fine.
John Noller: After a while in the ground a body in a coffin will begin to decay.
Mayor Furlong: Excuse me.
John Noller: What?
Mayor Furlong: Can you reference what you’re reading?
John Noller: It’s from the Northern Ireland Environmental Agency. Cemeteries, Burials and the Water
Environment.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
John Noller: This fluid may contain embalming fluid, pathogens, microbes, nitrogen compounds which
could contaminate ground water and in some cases may also pose a health risk if it contaminates a ground
water fed drinking source. That’s our wells. As ground water can travel considerable distance
underground and with any pollutants it’s necessary to consider the possible risk of ground water
contamination when planning new graveyards or cemeteries. So I just, I would submit this to the
committee for your perusal and just would like you guys to consider it at least.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
John Noller: I also have a petition signed by 42 individuals who live in the community that surround the
cemetery that are opposed to this expansion. Not everybody could make it here tonight but I’d like to also
submit that for your perusal as well.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
John Noller: And just one last comment. As a neighbor whenever I make changes, particularly the
exterior or my grounds of my house, I know that I can do these things but when I do certain things that
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
my neighbors can see I ask myself, should I do them and that’s something that I would like the council to
consider is not can you. That’s not an argument but it’s should you. Thank you for your time.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Okay, anyone else? Thank you. Oh!
Brian Johnson: My name is Brian Johnson. I live at 8120 Pinewood Circle. I’m the guy that sent you the
long, novel email that you may have read in your council packet.
Mayor Furlong: Right, I read it.
Brian Johnson: And public speaking is really not my thing so you’ll please excuse me if I’m a little
uncomfortable up here. I just wanted to come back to the question of the parking because I feel like as I
listen here tonight that that issue is kind of getting passed over. Councilwoman Ernst, you asked some
great questions about it and maybe I just don’t understand so Councilman Laufenburger you referenced it
too. Currently out there today, and again if you do look at that picture that’s up on the screen now, that is
an old picture. I parked my Nissan Murano in front of this cemetery last week and it doesn’t fit in the
parking lane there so as I understood the plan as it stands today, people would be expected to just drive up
on the median, or not the median but they’d be, people would be expected to drive up on the boulevard
and park there. There’s, we looked at it tonight on the way over. It looks like there’s in front of the,
immediately in front of the cemetery there’s maybe room for 6 cars and the rest of the parking in the plan
is said to be on the west side of Galpin where there’s a high curb. You can’t park there either so I’m
really struggling with how this plan is in the interest of public safety, how you would, if you’re going to
add 300 grave sites, you’re now going to have, you’re going to have funerals with 20, 30, 50 cars. I don’t
know where you’re going to safely put them so I guess my, I would really ask you to consider from, again
from a safety perspective where will you put a hearse and 20 or 30 or 40 cars for a cemetery, for a funeral.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. A couple quick questions, follow-up for staff. Thank you Mr.
Johnson. What’s the, where do the cars park now?
Todd Gerhardt: In Galpin. Some of the vehicles will pull up into the cemetery driveway and I would say,
I know I’ve been out there for one funeral and the hearse pulled up there and so, history has shown that
they have parked on Galpin and it’s worked for years and again if there’s concerns we can work with
Carver County Sheriff’s office to have individuals out there. Typically a funeral will last anywhere from
you know half hour to an hour and so, you know all I can say is that we’ve already sold plots. There’s
going to be a funeral 6 to 8 times a year, every year for several years going into the future so you know
with the new striping we’ll have to work with it and we can work with Carver County Engineer and if we
have to put out temporary signs for parking or have some type of traffic control.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. How wide is Galpin there? Approximately. Because you’ve got the two lanes.
You’ve got the center turn and then you’ve got some shoulder.
Todd Gerhardt: Oh, what is it?
Paul Oehme: I imagine it’s probably, I don’t know 45, 48 feet wide.
Mayor Furlong: 45, 48. I’m seeing the County engineers nodding their heads so you did pretty good
Paul. Okay. Okay. So what I think affected the striping, and Mr. Johnson he raises this point, is the fact
that now there’s a center turn lane section that’s in there from a striping standpoint that wasn’t there
before but I think from a width of the road that the width didn’t get narrowed at all with the recent County
project, did it?
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Paul Oehme: Correct, no. The curb lines have not changed. The existing curb lines that are there today
so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, so it’s just where the striped drive aisles are, drive lanes.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Are at this point that changed but the width is the same. Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. In going out and checking the new striping, pulled off to the side of the
shoulder on the west side of Galpin and the experience of the cars coming from the north going south
moved over into that turn lane to avoid us getting out of our vehicles so people made adjustments to us.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: So Todd can you tell, and I’d like to go back to Mr. Johnson’s concerns when he
mentioned you know 6 cars at the most can park out there right now. But with Galpin what do you, and
what’s your anticipation as to how many cars? Is it 20-30 cars with a hearse? I mean is that, is that
pushing it or is that?
Todd Gerhardt: No. I mean you have the whole west side for people to park and one of the benefits of
the striping has allowed you additional parking from basically the entrance to the cemetery up to where
Timberwood is and you know, so that gives you another additional parking there.
Councilwoman Ernst: And the 45 miles per hour road that we talked about that we don’t think that
there’s a risk there with the, I mean I realize we can’t do anything about the speed but with the road and
the design of the road and where that is with that speed limit we don’t, you don’t foresee any?
Todd Gerhardt: No, the road is designed for 45 miles an hour speed limit so you know again if it
becomes one where we need to have law enforcement out there, that’s something we may have to add.
All I can do is base it on history and it’s worked over the years. We haven’t had any complaints.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Anybody else for public comment that wasn’t brought up at the
Planning Commission? Okay, thank you very much. I appreciate those comments and also want to thank
the people that came to the Planning Commission as well for bringing their concerns to light. With that
let’s bring it back to council then for comments and discussion. Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. I think the, while I recognize the striping may cause a
visual constraint to people when they park, the design of Galpin, and I don’t think it was a County design
but the way the road lays out, there is great visibility both from the north headed south and also from the
south headed north in that you’re coming from an elevated position and there’s a little bit of a curve so
there is nobody, if they’re paying any attention driving from about 200 to 250 yards away, there’s nobody
that would miss the presence of cars parked on either the east or the west side of Galpin for the, for
visiting the cemetery. Also I think it’s important to note that it’s not just funerals at which this cemetery
th
gets busy. It’s busy for both Memorial Day, Veterans Day, July 4 so there are other activities there but I
would agree with Mr. Gerhardt that any concerns about parking certainly can be addressed by public
safety. By temporary signage and I can’t imagine a hearse parking on Galpin, if they’re going to be
putting a casket in the ground up by the red things. They’re going to take that hearse up there and ask the
pallbearers to walk you know 10 feet across level ground instead of 270 feet from Galpin so I think that,
at least from my perspective based on the history and based on the funerals that I’ve observed, I’m not
saying parking won’t be a problem. I think it will be manageable. Ms. Aanenson, can you speak to this,
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
and I wish Lieutenant Enevold was here, has there been any reports of vandalism in the cemetery do you
know?
Kate Aanenson: I can’t comment on that. I don’t know if the City Manager knows.
Todd Gerhardt: There’s been a few where people bring flowers and wreaths out there that are either
missing or have been taken and there may have been some brass type fixtures out there, vases that are
missing but nothing significant.
Councilman Laufenburger: My guess is they wouldn’t do that more than once probably.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, okay. Let’s see. Also to Mr. Noller’s comment about ground water,
boy I think that there are, isn’t there something in the ordinance Kate that would specify that a casket
needs to be put inside a cement vault? Are you familiar with that at all?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Yeah. The study, yeah.
Councilman Laufenburger: So I, while I can’t speak to what practices are in Northern Ireland, I know
based on my own experience of burying family, there’s a concrete vault, the casket and then it’s sealed
and I just can’t imagine anything in there gets out so while I appreciate the research, I don’t think it’s
applicable in this case. That was the only comment I had. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Other thoughts and comments. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah I, you know there are some things that have been raised as concerns that I’d
really like staff to check into and I think for the most part you’ve checked into this but the water situation
that came up tonight, I think just to make the residents feel at ease and I think it would be good to
understand that. Whether or not it’s an issue. It doesn’t sound like it is but I think it would behoove us to
check into that and at least put their minds to ease on that. And then with the buffer on the, I think it was
the north side that was mentioned, with a fence there is that even possible to put a buffer there?
Kate Aanenson: We’d have to look at it to see what the trees are already. I mean if we’re putting trees
that we’d have to eliminate other trees so we’d have to look at that. We certainly can look at it.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay, great. And then I like the idea that Mr. Gerhardt had in terms of you know
if there’s going to be, and I don’t know how that all works. If there’s going to be a funeral out there. Say
there was going to be you know 200 people out there potentially. Working with the sheriff’s department I
think is a good idea just to have that traffic control and make sure that we’re doing our due diligence
there. And I think that was it.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Other comments?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah, I’ll go ahead.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I think most of the issues have been I think discussed. The parking obviously
and the buffers. I think the language you seem to work out so it’s stronger and hopefully people’s
confidence that the buffers will be able to be put in that everyone’s, everyone will have input on it and be
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
satisfied with whatever is put in. But one of the questions that I think struck me is the question of should
we do this and I think this is one of those elements of life that we need to deal with as a city. It’s here.
We deal with new developments coming in. We deal with retail developments. Parks. Every other
aspect of life and this is just another part of life and so yes I do think we should do this and I think that
hopefully we’ll be able to make sure that the neighbors surrounding this historic cemetery will be okay
with the expansion and how we handle it so I’m in favor of it also.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Other comments? Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: I guess I’ll go next. I did go out and I have visited the site just to kind of look at
it and I mean one of the things that kind of gets me is, I don’t think this reflects on the City of Chanhassen
very well. I like the plan that staff’s come up with. You do need to remove the trees. You need to go out
there and I think you need to make this look a little bit more appealing. It’s very hard scrabble ground.
There’s no grass. We could definitely make it a better looking place that would be a little bit more
reflective on the City so from that standpoint I mean I’m for removing the trees. I did go back and look
and took the chart with me and you’re right. A lot of those, were really probably not desirable trees.
They cause more problems than I believe they solve. The ones that you’ve circled as being salvageable,
they’re spaced out enough that it would provide shade and some canopy but it would also allow grass to
grow. I think basically all you’re asking us to do tonight is just go out there and lay out the dimensions.
Put a plan together as far as addressing the issues of buffering and also to some extent parking or at least
from the standpoint of being able to gain access to the interior by putting the hammer head drive in there.
I think that would help. But I would also hope that the other thing you would do is look at a landscaping
so that we could build this up and make it a little bit more appealing than what it is right now. To the
question of should we do it? Yes we should do it. It’s part of the heritage of this city and I think we owe
it to the people who actually started this back before there were any homes or houses or even the glimmer
of Chanhassen that started that cemetery, to upkeep it and to also provide a space for the residents of this
community should they so desire that they would like to spend eternity here in Chanhassen. So I do think
that we should do it and we owe it to the residents. It’s another option as to again end of life decisions. I
think that we can also make this a much more appealing site and I would hope that’s something that the
City would look at so I’m in favor of going forward.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. As I looked at the site and visited, tried to get a sense of the plan, as you can
see up on the screen right now of the expansion. What I tried to look at is what, consider requests and try
to determine whether it’s reasonable for what’s being proposed, and also look at it from the standpoint,
not necessarily if the City owned it but if another association owned it and was coming forward with a
long term plan, and that’s what I’ve, talking with Mr. Gerhardt initially on this it was my thought that,
and I’m glad the way we’ve involved the residents, the neighbors in the public process. I’m glad that we
have the comments from the Planning Commission. Comments from the council. Is let’s put together a
long range plan for this property so that everybody understands where it’s going to be. It doesn’t all have
to happen right away but we need to have a plan in place as a council to allow staff then to know what
they can do and what they can’t do. And to basically execute against the plan for a long range standpoint
so as I look at this plan, as I look at the use and understanding that this has been a cemetery in this area
since the mid 1800’s, you know it certainly seems reasonable with what’s being proposed here as it is. I
think you know going out and doing an inventory of the trees and identifying those that are worth saving.
That are either substantial at this time or have the potential to become substantial is appropriate. There’s
a lot of brush and buckthorn and other stuff out there that yes, for those neighbors whose back yards come
up against this property, it does provide a visual barrier and I understand that. There will be change if you
take that out but I still think even though it’s not required to put a landscaping buffer in there, I think we
can do something from a landscaping along the property lines, especially the east and southern and you
know the gentleman to the north, I think staff can look at that. There seemed to be quite a bit there
already so I’m not sure what’s going to be cleared there or not. I think it’s a function as the staff gets out
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
there and looks at it whether something needs to be done, but I don’t think there should be an expectation,
as I’ve mentioned a couple times, that it should be a complete, that the landscaping’s going to completely
obstruct the view of the property from people on north, south, east or west side of the property but I think
we certainly can, and I would encourage staff to work with those neighbors closest to see what can be
done to try to accommodate their requests. With the columbarium, I think that’s a very reasonable and
appropriate use. I think to Councilman Laufenburger’s comments about trends, it’s my understanding
that cremation as a choice has increased over time and it also provides better utilization of the property
without necessarily taking up more space or getting, putting grave sites closer to the property line so I
think there’s some value there. In terms of the internal hammer head, having to back down the driveway
after I went out there, I would strongly recommend that and that just seems to me to be appropriate
because I think as was mentioned the hearse would certainly like to drive up into the cemetery. There has
to be a reasonable way for people to turn around so I think that can be part of the site plan, which I don’t
think is incorporated here into this nor is the columbarium incorporated into there. I think both of those
can be incorporated in to make the site more usable. Both from those that are visiting as well as during
funerals, internments and then also to incorporate the columbarium in the appropriate side. The question
Mr. Allen brought up the question of the rates at $200 per site and $500. Typically we charge a different
price for residents for a service such as at the Rec Center than for non-residents when there are other costs
being covered by your taxes. Here that’s not really the case since the money that’s being generated by the
sale of the plots is generating the funds to operate in the long term. At the same time I can understand
where that might be a desire from a pricing standpoint, if we priced it appropriately to have more sites
available for residents and so I can understand it from that standpoint but I do think that the rate at $200 is
too low based upon the market information that we had and we can certainly look at that but something in
the $300 to $400 dollar range for the resident would seem to be more appropriate based upon the
information of what other cities and the cemeteries that they operate for, so I think the differential here
can be more appropriate because we want to have a space for Chanhassen residents. I have received calls
from residents since this was noticed and at the Planning Commission meeting as well as discussed in the
newspaper a couple times who would very much like to be able to buy a plot and currently they’re not
able to do that so I think there is a reasonable expectation, a reasonable use that does fit here so I would
agree with moving forward with the utilization of the property that’s being proposed here with the
adjustments that we may lose some of these sites because of the columbarium being included, depending
upon it’s size and location with the hammer head but I think those again would offset and be reasonable.
As for the economics of the columbarium, I would think that that’s a pretty simple math. Once we figure
out where it’s going to be and what the cost is at the time we build it, divide it by the number of niches
and that’s going to give you a price for the niche. I mean that shouldn’t be a net cost to the City. It
should be something that is appropriate to, and I’m sure is the way that other cemeteries work that too so
the economics must work since it’s working in the marketplace as well so, overall I’m in favor of this. I
would like to see some of these things such as a revised site plan complete with the request for the
platting of the new sites as well as some ideas of the landscaping that’s going to take place. The
columbarium on the site. I’d like to get that back sooner rather than later and I would hope that perhaps
in the first quarter of next year, by the end of March those meetings can be had with the neighbors. The
plans can be drawn up and we can have something back in front of the council. I don’t, I think the
direction here, what I’m hearing is more comments of support with some questions. The parking issue
which I think was mentioned, let’s look at that. Let’s figure out the best way to do but I mean the cars
have been parking along that road. What’s different is the striping and I recognize that. The striping has
changed and the drive lanes are closer to the curbs along Galpin so I think we you know, let’s work with
the County. I don’t know that there needs to be changes there given the volume of activity but let’s just
make sure we know when you bring it back what the plan is for parking along there but I think it can be
done safely in part because it has been being done safely with the internments that have taken place and
funerals. To my knowledge we haven’t had problems out there but it’s reasonable to look at so with that,
unless are there other comments at this time or other requests? I mean we have a motion before us that
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
we can either table this or just, do we need to take action in the form of tabling or is the direction just
back to, based on comments tonight, bring it back at a future meeting?
Todd Gerhardt: I think we got clear direction from the council. I don’t think you need to have a formal
motion on it and we’ll work with the neighborhood and bring back a final plan.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Very good. Thank you everybody. Appreciate your involvement and we’ll look
forward to seeing the final plan back. I hope and expect within the first quarter of next year. Let’s move
on to the next item under our agenda this evening.
CHANHASSEN GREAT PLAINS CENTER, 7905 GREAT PLAINS BOULEVARD: SITE PLAN
REVIEW FOR A 10,500 SQ. FT. SINGLE LEVEL RETAIL CENTER, APPLICANT: NHH
CHANHASSEN PARTNERS, LLC/OWNER: CAMELOT CONVENIENCE QUALITY FUEL
AND FOODS.
Kate Aanenson: Thank you. The Great Plains Center project case did appear before the Planning
th
Commission at their November 5 meeting. Also at that meeting the Planning Commission supported the
project 5 to 0. Really had no concerns. They were very excited to see the project and was very
supportive of it. So again the site location is the old British Petroleum gas station there. Again.
Mayor Furlong: Can you switch?
Kate Aanenson: I’m sorry.
Mayor Furlong: Those are pretty bricks and I’m sure we’ll talk about them soon.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, 7905 Great Plains Boulevard. Yeah. Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, here we go.
Kate Aanenson: So this is the British Petroleum gas station.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Kate Aanenson: The gas station itself goes back a number of years. Actually probably been there about
25 years. Changed different types of uses but it’s been there long term and made some modifications to it
but the site itself is on the, bordered on the north by a car wash, the Valvoline and then you’ve got the
Master Collision and the Hanus building also on that northern side. Then you’ve got auto repair and a
Holiday across the street so this is in our Business Highway zoning district so it is a permitted use in the
thth
zoning district. On April 9, this wasn’t in your staff report but on May 9 of 2011 there was an approval
for a C-store at this gas station so the pumps, but that was never final. Or it was final but it was never
recorded so it has no legal standing but it was difficult for that project to advance forward. A lot of
people had tried different things so it never went to fruition. That also included a double car wash besides
a C-store. So for the existing conditions, the current access is off of Great Plains Boulevard right here.
This intersection here, when we were first approached by the user was a little bit of concern just based on
the sight lines and the amount of traffic as you come off of Highway 5 accelerating up onto a single lane
there on Great Plains. So again current access, you have two way directional. A little bit wider than we
would normally see on that site. Again I mentioned that the land use and the zoning is consistent for this
project to go forward. Highway Business and again it’s going to replace one retail for another type of
retail. So the proposal summary, 10,443 square foot of a multi-tenant single story building. Again it’s a
permitted use in the zoning district. There’s an existing trail along Highway 5. We’re including new
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
sidewalks that would wrap the entire building and then picking up a connection that would extend to the
north. The location of the driveway then has been narrowed and then a decel lane has been added again
because you’ve got accelerating traffic coming up onto Great Plains. This gives people that want to take
the right turn in a place to maneuver over. The parking itself is all on the back of the building so the front
of the building does face Highway 5. In working with the owner of the building, a lot of care was given
to the appearance of this building as a gateway to the community and having that be what you see first is
the nice architecture of the building and not the parking itself. One of the areas that we do want to make
sure gets accommodated is additional screening of this parking because they’re meeting, they’re parking
closer. It is permitted as long as it’s completely screened so that needs to be accommodated. So a new,
we talked about the turn lane. So this is a big improvement. We went back and looked at that one after
looking at the turn movements and how the site would be utilized. Because of the uses and how this is
laid out there wouldn’t be a drive thru or anything. That would not be permitted in this type of a
building. Just did not have enough parking for that to be accommodated. Again there’s no direct access
off of Highway 5. This is the architectural rendering of the building. As I illustratively showed you
already, the wonderful bricks.
Mayor Furlong: Oh we have bricks.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah we’ll show that again. I’ll zoom it out a little bit here. You can just leave it just
like that and I’ll zoom it out. We’ll pick it up here. So it’s really nice materials on the building. Again
really nice presence. That entrance or that feature there as the gateway on all the parking then screen
behind. Again more details of the architecture itself. So all elevations have equal attention which is what
we have in the Highway 5 corridor and again that has a pronounced entrance that utilizes double, durable
excuse me, exterior materials and has a lot of articulation in the building and we think it’s a really well
designed and a nice sensitive to the kind of surrounding uses. Again really nice entrance statement into
the city. So with that the Planning Commission and the staff is recommending approval of the project
with the conditions in the staff report and I’d be happy to answer any questions that you have.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff? Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Are there any uses that are not permitted with this building?
Kate Aanenson: Well fast food, a drive thru. You could put something in there if you could
accommodate the parking. There’s only 48 parking, 45 parking stalls and so, 52 is what they have on
there so that’s what’s going to drive the number of uses. That mix. So you may have some that have
different peak hours but you know so we’re looking at that as a, actually we’re going to be meeting there
shortly, tomorrow to talk about the tenant mix. Sounds like you have it leased up so we’ll be looking
through that mix, kind of picking and making sure that we’ve got that right mix. Again we leave that up
to the owner of the building to make sure that they’re managing it properly. That their tenants are happy
that they can get adequate parking so that’s how we’ll review that so.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: What is the parking lot size of the Chipotle building?
Kate Aanenson: That one actually, they share.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Buffalo Wild Wings.
Kate Aanenson: You have Buffalo Wild Wings and then you have the tire store so all three of those uses,
and they have different peaks so this would have, this is not going to have restaurants in there so that
wasn’t the intent when it was really proposed based on the parking. You know we looked at this
ultimately, if this piece were to develop, any of these properties to the north were to be redeveloped,
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
which is a potential, then there is a potential for access then to go to the north and then connect onto the
street that we have the water treatment plant so that would give better circulation to the site and that is
also a long term goal that could happen too.
Mayor Furlong: Is that a current condition of this site or I mean this site…
Kate Aanenson: No, we’ve talked to the developer has talked to the adjacent property owners.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: So what are we to say, that’s something long term wise. If someone was to come in and
protest that we would come back to them and say to maybe try to connect them or if someone else was,
they were to develop.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Thank you. Councilwoman Tjornhom, any more questions at this time?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: That’s it.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. McDonald?
Councilman McDonald: Current site’s got a gas station on it. Are there any concerns about the gas tanks
that are in there or what are we doing to make sure that there is no ground pollution?
Kate Aanenson: They will have to do that, to provide, the State does require that too so there is a
condition on that. That they have to make sure that those are met by the MPCA. So the building
inspectors will also verify that too.
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: Pollution Control Agency.
Mayor Furlong: Other questions? Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Right. Kate the car wash stays, is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: The car wash to the north?
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah.
Kate Aanenson: At this time, correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: As is the Valvoline to the north.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Aren’t there two car washes there? On this property as well as the property to the north.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, the car wash on the BP property now, that will go away.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: But the one, the building that is just like 30 feet to the north.
Mayor Furlong: On the property to the north, yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, to the north.
Mayor Furlong: There it is.
Councilman Laufenburger: There it is.
Kate Aanenson: This one will stay but if you look at how this is right now, I mean it just lends to, there’s
a change in grade. This is dropping down onto their property so.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah.
Kate Aanenson: There is a change in grade and there’s, the car wash here but if you look at a single car,
they have a car wash right now so that is going away but if you look in long term, because you’ve got this
access point here, you have conflicting turn movements. Not the best situation so we would like to rectify
that and then just have these two properties connected at some time in the future if we can work with both
properties.
Todd Gerhardt: Kate on the site plan, is that sidewalk all the way around the building?
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Todd Gerhardt: So the brown is concrete?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Todd Gerhardt: So if anybody needs an example of somebody’s concrete work, the railroad depot has a
sidewalk around it and there’s not a single crack in that. So anybody to the left of you that may have
done that. Not a single crack in it.
Kate Aanenson: We think it’s nice too. It connects, you know it really connects for people that may be
on Highway 5 biking and allows them to come in and utilize that too and then you’ve kind of got an
outdoor seating area too and that’s, it’s a nice entrance feature.
Mayor Furlong: So outdoor seating, does that imply that there will be a restaurant out there?
Kate Aanenson: No, but you can still, I mean you can still have just a seating area.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. I noticed with the elevations of the building, if you can bring those back up as
well, and that one and then.
Kate Aanenson: I’m sorry, this one?
Mayor Furlong: That one there too. There are a number of places along there where the word signage is
included and I’m sure because it’s a multi-tenant building they’re looking for that. Is the developer aware
of the signage ordinances and are there any specific ordinances that we have?
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Do you have any concern from what you’ve seen in terms of their ability to put up the
signage that they’re expecting to?
Kate Aanenson: No. Actually they’ve got a couple projects in Edina and St. Louis Park that we’ve, I’ve
seen.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: Very highly articulated and.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: So we have a lot of confidence in how they’re moving that forward. In our meetings
with them been very, very pleased.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, and that’s fine. Businesses need to let people know where they are. At the same
time we have to make sure that we’re treating everybody fairly and that the expectations are reasonable.
Okay, thank you. Any other questions for staff at this time? Anything from the applicant? If you’d like
to introduce yourself at least.
Dean Devolos: Good evening council and Mayor. Dean Devolos, DJ Architecture. 333 Washington
Avenue North, Minneapolis, Minnesota. Also serving as a project developer. We’re excited to be here in
Chanhassen look for the opportunity really to try to do a corner building and help enhance the street and
tie into the trail system which I think will really make a nice gateway, a nice entrance to Chanhassen.
Really work the retail on both sides to really give that presence and hope this is a first move in which
other parcels may eventually redevelop over time to sort of start to strengthen and develop a great
th
downtown you’ve already begun with. This one I showed here was one in Edina at 70 and France. And
France Avenue is similar to you know Highway 5 in terms of traffic and everyone sort of looked at this
saying are you kidding? You want a street front building but this filled immediately with tenants has
been very successful and the City’s very happy so learning from this and seeing that the marketplace will
only accept these kind of buildings on a corner that are pedestrian connected. This is really the same
approach we’re bringing here to Chanhassen. The good news is we have more tenants than building. I’m
meeting with Kate to sort through those and pick the best ones that work for the city and there’s a few
even restaurateurs but we’ll what works with the parking ratios to come up with the best mix for it so that
will be the next step I’ll be taking so thank you very much for your support and enthusiasm for this.
Mayor Furlong: Very good, thank you. Any questions for Mr. Devolos? No? Very good, thank you.
With that I’ll bring it back to council for thoughts and comments. Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Sounds like a start. I think it will be a fantastic project. I’m glad you’re in
Chanhassen and I look forward to seeing who’s coming to town to be in that building.
Dean Devolos: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Anything else? I mean it’s.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Councilman McDonald: I mean it looks as though it’s going to be a good project. It will definitely
change that corner. Look forward to see what happens there so I wish you a lot of luck and yeah, I too am
interested in you know what kind of new businesses can you bring to the city. So I will support this.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilwoman Ernst, comments.
Councilwoman Ernst: Sure. I think it’s a great architectural design and a great project and welcome to
Chanhassen. You know I definitely will support the project.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other comments?
Councilman Laufenburger: I think it was stated very well that this is a visual welcome to Chanhassen
from the east and it looks like it’s going to be a great welcome so.
Mayor Furlong: I agree. I’m looking forward to it. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for working with
Ms. Aanenson and her staff.
Kate Aanenson: Again another fine job done by Sharmeen Al-Jaff.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Always good to hear that but I appreciate all your work and looking forward to
seeing you here so we’re, these are the types of develops that everybody gets excited about so, which is
good. With that anybody like to make a motion? Councilwoman Tjornhom?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Sure. I’d like to make a motion that the City of, that the Chanhassen City
Council approves a site plan for the construction of a 10,443 square foot single level retail center on 1.13
acres of property zoned Highway and Business Services District and located at 7905 Great Plains
Boulevard, BP Gas Station site, and adoption of the attached Findings of Fact.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Ernst: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none we’ll proceed with the vote.
City
Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that the Chanhassen
Council approve the site plan consisting of a 10,443 square-foot multi-tenant building,
Planning Case 2013-23 as shown in plans dated received October 4, 2013, and including the
attached Findings of Fact and Recommendation, subject to the following conditions:
Environmental Resource Conditions:
1.The applicant shall install a total of two peninsulas in the parking lot.
2.The south side of the parking lot along Highway 5 must be screened. The applicant shall add
shrubs with a minimum mature height of three feet along the south parking lot perimeter.
3.The applicant shall install the required bufferyard plantings along the south property line.
4.The applicant shall install two evergreens on the eastern corner of the property.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
5.The applicant shall remove the existing ash tree along Great Plains Boulevard and replace it
with an overstory tree species from the Approved Tree List.
Building Official Conditions:
1.The proposed structure is required to have an automatic fire extinguishing system (MN Rule
1306).
2.All plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the State of
Minnesota. A geotechnical (soil evaluation) report required.
3.Detailed building code-related requirements have not been reviewed; this will take place
when complete structural/architectural plans are submitted.
4.Demolition permit required (contact MPCA regarding underground, fuel storage tanks
removal requirements).
5.The owner and/or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division as soon as
possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures.
Fire Marshal Conditions:
1.An additional on-site fire hydrant will be required. Location to be on the north/west corner
of the building. If necessary contact Fire Marshal for exact location.
2.Yellow painted curbing will be required. Areas include but not limited to are the curbing
north of the building. Contact Fire Marshal for exact location. Also “ No Parking Fire Lane”
signs will be required where yellow cubing is present.
3.A three-foot clear space must be maintained around fire hydrant.
Engineering Conditions:
1.The sidewalk must be minimum five feet from the edge Great Plains Boulevard and the right
turn lane.
2.A sidewalk easement is required over any portion of the sidewalk that does not lie within
public right-of-way.
3.The sidewalk easement shall extend five feet beyond the edge of the sidewalk.
4.The developer must obtain a MnDOT permit for the portions of the sidewalks that will be
within MnDOT right-of-way.
5.Prior to construction of the trash enclosure an encroachment agreement must be recorded to
allow for the portion of the trash enclosure that will lie within the sanitary sewer easement.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
6.A $7,600 security must be submitted to ensure that Great Plains Boulevard is properly
restored after the utility work. This escrow will be released if the street patch is in good
condition after one freeze-thaw cycle has passed.
7.The sanitary sewer line must be televised before and after construction to ensure that the
grading equipment does not damage the sanitary sewer.
8.Before the city signs the site plan agreement a $7,500 security must be submitted in case of
damage to the existing sanitary sewer.
9.The existing sanitary sewer manhole in the northeast corner must be reconstructed due to the
proposed grade changes in the area.
10.City water and sanitary sewer hook-up fees and the Met Council SAC fee will be due with
the building permit and will be based on additional SAC units, if any.
11.Before site grading can commence the grading plan must be revised as follows:
a.Label the existing contours.
b.Label the Emergency Overflow (EOF) elevation.
c.Ensure that the lowest opening of the building is minimum one foot above the EOF
elevation.
d.Ensure that all proposed contours tie into existing (for example, the proposed 954 contour
south of the EOF does not tie in).
a.Revise the grading on the northeast corner of the site so that the proposed grades do not
exceed 3H:1V.
12.Storm water runoff rates must not increase under the 2-year, 10-year and 100-year return
interval storms at any point where water leaves the site.
13.A Phase 1 Environmental Site Assessment must be performed on this site and made available
to the city to determine the likelihood of encountering contaminated soils at the proposed
biofiltration location.
14.The hydraulic calculations for the storm sewer shall be provided and approved prior to the
city signing the site plan agreement.
15.The SWPPP must include all required elements under the NPDES Construction Stormwater
Permit.
16.Rock construction entrance shall be measured from the bituminous saw cut.
17.The biofiltration area shall not be constructed until after the site is substantially completed.
At a minimum, the base course shall be installed prior to construction of the biofiltration
area.
18.The biofiltration area shall be protected from construction-related activities throughout site
development. The SWPPP and Erosion Prevention and Sediment Control Plan must indicate
how this will be accomplished.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
19.Before the City signs the site plan agreement a $5,000 security must be submitted to insure
compliance with the erosion prevention and sediment control plan. This will be released
once a minimum of 75% of the site has been permanently stabilized and the sediment control
BMPs have been removed.
20.The owner shall be responsible for the operations and maintenance of the rain garden facility.
The applicant shall develop an operations and maintenance manual and provide a copy to the
city prior to the City signing the site plan agreement.
21.The owner shall prepare and submit an annual report indicating that the biofiltration is
functioning properly or, in the event it is not, what steps area planned to restore the
functionality of the biofiltration feature.
Planning Conditions:
1.The applicant shall work with staff to improve the screening of the parking lot through the
use of berming and landscaping. Parking setbacks will be adjusted based on the screening
plan.
2.All rooftop and ground equipment must be screened from views.
3.Sign illumination and design shall comply with ordinance. Signs shall be limited to the north
and south elevations.
4.The exterior material for the trash enclosure must be of the same exterior material as the
building. Recycling space and other solid waste collection space should be contained within
the same enclosure.
5.A photometrics plan shall be prepared for the site. Light levels for site lighting shall be no
more than one-half foot candle at the project perimeter property line. This does not apply to
street lighting. All fixtures must be shielded.
6.The proposed development has a total hard coverage area of 67.2%. The applicant shall
revise the plan to meet hard surface coverage ordinance requirements not to exceed 65%.
7.Snow storage shall not create a hazard to the safe, efficient movement of vehicular or
pedestrian traffic.”
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
CONSIDER AMENDMENT TO CITY CODE CONCERNING MASSAGE BUSINESS
LICENSING.
Laurie Hokkanen: Thank you. The City Council has discussed in work session format three times
previously with business owners, the development of a licensing requirement for massage therapy
businesses and we had a few meetings with business owners. We worked with them through the work
session and the goal of our work was to develop an ordinance that would allow law enforcement officials
to have the tools that they need to pursue businesses that might not be operating in accordance with the
law. But also the City Council very much wanted to recognize that most of our massage businesses have
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
been good corporate citizens. Are legitimate businesses and so we worked very hard to find a balance
between not being overly onerous on those legitimate businesses but also giving law enforcement those
tools that they need to identify who’s running the business and what may be going on in the business
without taxing their existing and precious resources. And so what we’ve come up with is an ordinance
that would require a one time licensing and background check for massage therapy businesses and we did
leave the responsibility with the business owners and chose not to pursue licensing individual therapists.
The requirements would be for a $50 license fee paid to the City to cover the administrative cost of
putting the license process together. And then a background check to be conducted by Carver County and
we would pass on the actual cost of that background check, which is $250 for an initial background
check. The subjects of the background check would be any of the owners of the business as well as the
general manager and requirements would include providing character witnesses and disclosing any
businesses owned within the last 7 years, as well as similar licenses held or applied for in other cities.
And this is a one time license so as long as there are no changes to the ownership or management of the
business they would not be required to go through the process again. The City will check in with them
annually to make sure that’s the case but that was a good way that we found to balance the needs of city
and law enforcement with the desires of the business owners. There are a few, at least one business
owner that is present that I believe would like to speak on the subject but I can also stand for questions.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff. Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah, I have a question. One of the things that we looked at was giving
everybody a reduced fee if they brought things in by a certain date. In your memo you’ve got that date as
being January 31. I thought it was December 31 because in the same sentence you’re saying full fees will
apply as of January 1.
Laurie Hokkanen: Correct. Any business that applies, if this is approved, any business that applies
st
before December 31 of this year, the City would split the cost of both the license fee and the background
check with them and so that’s our way of recognizing that there’s a public safety benefit and also
incentifying businesses to apply quickly so that we can start processing this, but we wanted to make it
stst
clear that if you are not able or don’t want to apply by December 31 there is a deadline of January 31 to
have your application in. So in short terms, apply by the end of this year. Pay half the cost. Apply
st
between the first of next year and the 31 of January, you’d pay the full cost. Businesses that have not
st
applied by January 31 of 2014 would not be in compliance.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: And I guess, thank you Ms. Hokkanen. In the ordinance or does that have to be in the
motion because I think the ordinance, if I’m not mistaken, just speaks to the full fees. I’m looking at
Section 10-219 so I guess Mr. Knutson on that as well. How does that, because what she described was
what I understood we wanted and I think Mr. McDonald is consistent with your thoughts as well. Is that
currently in the ordinance or does that have to be part of the motion?
Roger Knutson: It should be part of the motion.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. So whoever gets to make the motion will have fun with that. We’ll
listen and make sure they get it right.
Councilwoman Ernst: I think Councilman McDonald should make that motion.
Councilman McDonald: Already got it.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Not yet. That last paragraph in the staff report may be helpful. Other questions for
staff? Thank you. Let’s go ahead and thank you for letting me know that somebody was here. We
certainly would welcome public comment at this time. It was not noticed as a public hearing but there
was, it was published in our preliminary agenda as well and there have been articles in there so if anybody
would like to provide public comment to the council this evening. Ma’am, you’re certainly welcome.
Thank you for coming.
Roxanne Wilden: Hi. My name is Roxanne Wilden and I’m a massage therapist of 20 years. I’m
nationally certified and I’ve been in Chanhassen for 17 of the 20 years and the business is a healing touch
massage and I’m at the Chan Dinner Theater. I was at the Goodwill before that was, at the Chan office
complex.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, good.
Roxanne Wilden: So several things that I know from being experienced in this profession is there’s going
to be illegal stuff all over the place and I know Chanhassen is the place that you want to be a family place
and you don’t want this prostitution and neither do I. I was trained at Sister Rosalind School of Massage.
I went through about 2 years of schooling there and being nationally certified. It’s updated every 4 years
and you need so many CEU’s so I train with osteopaths and physical therapists and chiropractors for
continuing education and so I’m not interested in having you know people that have no education to come
in, pay a fee and to get licenses nor am I, you know you get somebody like a big operation like Envy or
something like that and if their employees can come from any state, any direction and whatever come in
there and call themselves a therapist and then work in Chanhassen. I don’t think we could have, you
know there’s always possibility even if a person gets an education but less possibility if they get it and so
I think the minimum education now is around 550 to 600 hours. Now I lived on Dell Road and I got this
flyer in the mail saying massage therapist. You know and he gave a rate like I charge so I called him up.
He didn’t know who I was. I called him up and I said you know so, what’s your education? He said oh
well a friend trained me over a weekend so what I know about that is not only is it going to give bad rap
to those that want to help people in alternative health care. To not drink and drug and you know
whatever for their pain but also you know it could hurt people and so I love Chanhassen and I’ve been
here a long time and so several things that I think if you’re going to license, that it should be licensed per
person, not per business because you don’t know who’s going to come in. And I am nationally certified
which means that I had to go through lots of training and a 4 hour test just like a real estate test and so a
lot of people don’t have that training but that’s an option you could have for education for maybe
grandfathering somebody in with long education but most people have educations. So and me I’m a
single person. I mean I’m a small business of one and so I’m not interested in big fees. That would you
know not be good for me. I’m an upright citizen and want good things and any questions for me?
Mayor Furlong: Any questions? No, but thank you for your comments. What I wrote down is you
would recommend licensing per person versus business and also giving consideration to certifications.
Roxanne Wilden: Right, and the other thing is, I don’t know who this woman was at Stone Creek that
you know, that did this but would a background check have not had her have the business?
Mayor Furlong: No, and that was a question that we brought up. Let me ask staff to respond to those.
Roxanne Wilden: I mean I have, I have had a background check through St. Hubert’s so I’ve already had
that so. But you know would that have made a difference, I don’t know.
Todd Gerhardt: In this case it would not.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Right.
Todd Gerhardt: In another case that we had in town, if we did have the ordinance it would have so it’s
just, you know it’s like anything. It’s what kind of tools you have in your tool box to try to stop the
inappropriate acts of others.
Roxanne Wilden: Yeah, so I think education is an important thing. That when they get approved for
license saying that they’re legitimate therapists. That they’re not an over the weekend, by a friend and
calling them a professional therapist you know. I know that’s probably a lot of extra work but all they
have to do is show a copy of their certificate. National certificate. Schooling, whatever so.
Mayor Furlong: You raise a good point and I know that that’s something that we talked about earlier and
I’ll try to respond a little bit from a thought standpoint as one of the earlier versions did include licensing
of the individual therapists and there was concern that for a business such as your’s where that’s what you
do, there isn’t a lot of employee turnover but for other businesses there may be and so we wanted to be
cognizant of the fact that there may be ongoing paperwork.
Roxanne Wilden: Well they could pay themselves too you know.
Mayor Furlong: I’m sorry.
Roxanne Wilden: They could pay themselves. It might not be just the owner of the business that would
be paying.
Mayor Furlong: Understand. It wasn’t the intention here to establish a minimum requirement for people
to have a certain level of certification or certification from a particular organization in order to operate a
massage therapy business in town or to be a massage therapist with another business. It was really to try
to identify who the people were that were owning the businesses as opposed to working with the
individual employees at this point. Might it come to that? It might. It’s not our objective I don’t think to
try to restrict people from opening businesses. Legitimate businesses.
Roxanne Wilden: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: We’re working on addressing the illegitimate businesses and in terms of the obvious
training and experience and such that you bring and others with your skills and experiences bring, the
marketplace, those things tend to work themselves out as well versus the gentleman that was trained over
the weekend by a friend.
Roxanne Wilden: Well I know 3 people right now that are working as therapists that have no education.
They just read on the internet whatever so.
Mayor Furlong: Understand. Understand. So that wasn’t the goal and objective here.
Roxanne Wilden: Right.
Mayor Furlong: But that’s certainly something that may come in the future.
Roxanne Wilden: But if they’re serious about it, you know to me they would be getting an education.
That’s my thought.
Mayor Furlong: I would agree and that goes for most professions, if not all of them.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Ms. Wilden asks a good question regarding would the establishment at Stone
Creek have been prevented from opening if an investigation had occurred. The answer is.
Todd Gerhardt: No.
Councilman Laufenburger: I think we already know that the answer is no. However Lieutenant Enevold
said that had the licensing been in place, the investigation of the owner would have been easier because
we would have had names and address of the business owner and that was something that was not in
place so holding the business owner accountable I think is right now is as far as this council wants to go
so, but thank you for your comments. Ms. Wilden.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah. I think the other aspect of that too is that while that may not have identified
anything in this particular person’s background, having that step may have prevented them from even
locating here. That we don’t know.
Roxanne Wilden made comments from the audience that were not audible.
Mayor Furlong: Right. Right. Okay, thank you. Appreciate your comments. Is there anybody else that
would like to comment on this proposal?
Chris Bagdons: Good evening. My name is Chris Bagdons. I’m co-owner of Ovations Health Spa,
which is on the corner of 7 and 41. We’re just inside Chan here and I also agree. Education is a huge part
because if you go through all those credit hours you’re going to do stuff to not get in trouble and lose.
You know I’m still paying off student loans 10 years later. And I don’t fall into the requirements that you
guys are looking for because I have a chiropractor on staff but I’m wondering if there’s stuff that I can do
to help with, if something like this were to happen in my establishment, who do I call? What information
do you guys need? Anything like that. If a patron comes and solicits for prostitution. Is it the same stuff
that that happens. That’s a question that I have.
Mayor Furlong: You know that’s a valid question. Mr. Gerhardt.
Todd Gerhardt: He should call 911 or call the sheriff’s office and ask for Lieutenant Enevold and, or call
City Hall. We’ll work with you and have an investigation to make sure that you know that isn’t
happening. You can’t solicit. That’s against the law also and so we enforce both ends of it and you know
what we were trying to attempt here with this ordinance is to walk first and we didn’t want to put
everything in there in the beginning. We’re just kind of testing waters here and see what we can create
from this and then if we need to make modifications we can always bring it back to the mayor and council
for consideration down the line. Right now we just want to walk but if you have anybody that is in there
soliciting, don’t hesitate to call City Hall or 911 and try to get a license plate or drivers license or
something like that.
Chris Bagdons: Right, and we always clients to an intake form and ask for name and address. If they’re
going to be doing illegal stuff I don’t know how truthful they would be on that form but.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. Yep.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Chris Bagdons: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. You know I think the other thing, and you bring up a good point is that even
with this ordinance, if it does go forward tonight, the sheriff’s office, Lieutenant Enevold, his staff, the
Carver County Sheriff’s office is not going to stop their investigation and enforcement of all the activities,
the detective work that they’ve been doing when people call with concerns. Whether it’s someone in
business, as you mentioned, or a neighboring business or another location where there may be suspicion
that some illegal activities are going on, they’re still going to be investigating those and still be active in
that regard as well so they’re not going to be back in town in their activities.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, it’s just good for us to know if that activity is still going on in the community so
it makes us aware with our ongoing investigations, it might be a trigger to another site in town so
whenever you experience anything that you think is questionable, don’t hesitate to call.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else that would like to provide public comment on this matter?
Alright, thank you for those and thank you for the other people and businesses that have provided emails
and comments throughout this process as we’ve been considering alternatives for the ordinance. Any
follow-up questions for staff? No? Any thoughts or discussions? Anyone would like to make a motion?
Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah. I make the following motion. That the Chanhassen City Council adopts
an ordinance amending Chapter 10 of the Chanhassen City Code concerning licensing Massage Therapy
Businesses. I further would put into the motion tonight that as an incentive to help in the assistance of the
implementation of this new program, and in recognition also of the public service benefits and of doing so
in a quickest manner as possible, and also to recognize the businesses that have performed a service
within the community, that what we would do is that if businesses submit their applications prior to
December 31 of 2013 that they would pay a reduced fee of $25 for the license and only $125 for the
st
background check for a total fee of $150. Otherwise everything becomes effective as of January the 1 of
2014 and that all businesses must have their applications submitted to the City by January 31, 2014 or
they’re in non-compliance with the statute. That’s a lot but.
Councilwoman Ernst: That was an attorney’s version.
Mayor Furlong: That was just fine.
Councilwoman Ernst: I second that.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. A motion’s been made and seconded. Is there any discussion on the
motion? Hearing none we’ll proceed with the vote.
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that the Chanhassen City Council
adopts an ordinance amending Chapter 10 of the Chanhassen City Code concerning licensing
Massage Therapy Businesses, and further as an incentive to help in the assistance of the
implementation of this new program, in recognition of the public service benefits of doing so in the
quickest manner possible, and recognizing the businesses that have performed a service within the
community, businesses that submit their applications prior to December 31, 2013 would pay a
reduced fee of $25 for the license and $125 for the background check for a total fee of $150.
Otherwise the ordinance becomes effective as of January 1, 2014 and all businesses must have their
applications submitted to the City by January 31, 2014 or they are in non-compliance with the
statute. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Thank you everyone and thank you Laurie, Todd and everyone else that was involved in
working through this. And I thank our area businesses for being involved and those that spoke this
evening as well and provided other comments.
Roxanne Wilden: I have a question here.
Mayor Furlong: If you could come to the microphone real quick.
Roxanne Wilden: So I have previously done a background check. Do I need to do it again?
Mayor Furlong: You will need to work with the City and you can talk to Ms. Hokkanen as far as getting
an application and getting that submitted right away.
Roxanne Wilden: I just did that like oh, I don’t know maybe a year ago. 6 months ago.
Mayor Furlong: Understand. Yeah, okay. Please work with the City. Ms. Hokkanen can get you the
information you need. Thank you. Let’s move on to our next item of business.
CONSIDER PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS AND JOINT POWERS AGREEMENT FOR
LYMAN BOULEVARD IMPROVEMENTS BETWEEN POWERS BOULEVARD AND
AUDUBON ROAD.
Councilwoman Tjornhom left during this item and did not vote.
Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor, City Council members. This is again Lyman Boulevard improvements
from Powers Boulevard to Audubon Road. This is a Carver County project so with us tonight is Lyndon
Robjent, the Public Works Director and Darin Mielke, the Assistant Public Works Director for Carver
County. The City did send out notifications for tonight’s meeting to the area residents and we did receive
one email from a property owner and believe the council has received that email.
Mayor Furlong: Yes.
Paul Oehme: So I’ll go through a little power point presentation and I’ll touch on a couple of those items
as well but if you have any other questions regarding that correspondence, please ask me after the
presentation.
Todd Gerhardt: Paul, is your mic on?
Paul Oehme: Yes it is.
Todd Gerhardt: Okay.
Paul Oehme: So for tonight’s meeting, agenda I’d like to just kind of review the project. Look at the
detour plan proposed. Talk about right-of-way acquisition and the process involved with that. Review
the financing plan and schedule and address any questions that you have too. So the project and purpose
is to improve the traffic safety capacity and corridor continuity for Lyman Boulevard from Audubon
Road to Powers Boulevard. This section of roadway is consistent with the section of Lyman Boulevard
that was reconstructed I think back in 2007, right by the Chanhassen High School. Lyman Boulevard is
currently a two lane, undivided roadway. There are some safety deficiencies including there is the surface
majority of the pavement surface is in poor condition at this time. Gravel shoulders. Wide gravel
shoulders but they tend to run up quite often and then there’s inadequate, currently inadequate left turn
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
lane capacity from Powers Boulevard onto Lyman Boulevard as well. So proposed improvements,
construct a roadway to a 4 lane divided section, again consistent with the section just to the west of this
roadway. Currently the ADT is right around 13,800. By 2034 the Carver County’s estimate for traffic is
going to be over 26,000. We plan to add curb and gutter. Concrete medians to the project. Adjust
alignment and flatten the grade as much as we can to get better sight distance. Sight lines. Add left turn
lanes to existing intersections. Add dual left turn lanes at northbound Powers Boulevard to Lyman
Boulevard capacity in that movement. We are planning to add pedestrian bicycle trail on the north side of
Lyman Boulevard. Extend water stubs and install steel casings for future watermain improvements.
Install steel casing under Lyman Boulevard for a future sanitary sewer extension to the north which is
currently well and septic at this time. And then improve street lighting at all the major intersections. So
this is the layout that we are currently working through so again red represents the concrete median. The
yellow are the through lanes and the turn lanes. The roadway section again we’ve got about 16 foot
median in areas where there is no turn lane and the through lanes vary from 14 to the 16 foot wide,
through lanes actually they go down to 12 as well. 10 foot trail on the north side of Lyman Boulevard
and this connects into the existing trails at Audubon and the Powers Boulevard. Currently there is a trail
gap at this location so once this section of trail is complete, there is continuity of trail from basically
Galpin Boulevard on the west side of town all the way into Eden Prairie and this trail corridor will
connect into Eden Prairie’s trail system as well. And also this trail system will connect to, or it will create
another internal loop for local residents to use for about a 2 mile loop as well. No trail is proposed on the
south side of Lyman Boulevard at this time. Most of the property is undeveloped right now and the comp
plan doesn’t look at, isn’t proposing to put a trail out here at this time. So I’d like to just talk briefly
about some of the major improvements, specifically the intersections. Again Powers Boulevard
intersection that’s north is to the top. We are adding left turn lanes at this intersection. Currently there is
a protective permissive green light out here to allow traffic to turn left onto Lyman Boulevard when the
through traffic is coming through. That’s proposed to be changed out to flashing yellow arrow signal
system. Carver County has put I think one or two of these in the county already with good feedback and
MnDOT is planning to change out most of the majority of their intersections, and new intersections in the
future to these flashing yellow arrow systems as well. Nationally studies have indicated that drivers
found flashing yellow arrow to be more understood than the traditional yellow, or traditional green
indicator lights that are currently out here today and we have had accidents at this intersection with those
movements in mind.
Mayor Furlong: So Mr. Oehme if I can interrupt you. The plan is to have the flashing yellow for all
directions here for the left turn?
Paul Oehme: Just for the, I believe it’s for the double yellows. No actually it is for.
Mayor Furlong: For all directions.
Paul Oehme: For all directions as well.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Paul Oehme: Yep. We are planning to add a median for Lyman Boulevard as well. This purple area
right here so making a free right to, traffic from Lyman going onto Powers and then there is a small
median here as well for traffic through, channelizing. It’s such a wide, long intersection it’s helpful to
have those type of medians in these type of situations as well.
Mayor Furlong: If I could?
Paul Oehme: Yep.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Can I ask questions now or do you want them later?
Paul Oehme: Absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: Traffic going eastbound on Lyman then, there’ll be two through lanes until you get to
this intersection and then it will be channeled down to a single through, or there’ll be two drive lanes and
then when you get to this intersection the right drive lane will either, it will have to turn right.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Mayor Furlong: The middle one could go straight or get into the lane turn lane. Is that?
Paul Oehme: Correct. Yeah so basically there’s two through lanes eastbound Lyman Boulevard. The
left bound through lane will transition into a left turn lane and a right turn lane at this intersection.
There’ll be one through lane because Lyman Boulevard to the east of here is two lane with the wider
median.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, is it wide enough that the section of Lyman east of this intersection, is it wide
enough to handle two drive lanes if it was restriped?
Paul Oehme: I don’t believe it would be. I think the curb line would have to be widened out to
accommodate two through lanes there and then would have to drop a lane on the east side of Powers as
well.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah I’m guessing as it drives, as that road continues east towards 101, is the width of
that road, I know it doesn’t have a median in there. Is the width wide enough for 4 lanes of traffic?
Paul Oehme: I believe it has, yeah when we went, when this was built through 212 I think it does have
the capacity, is my understanding for 4 lanes without turn lanes or without medians basically.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Paul Oehme: That could be striped. I think that the pinch point again is, I think it should be able to meet
restriping.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Let’s go back to the flashing yellow light. Will those two left turn lanes
headed northbound on Powers to a westbound Lyman, will they have an advanced green as well? A
protected green followed by the flashing yellow.
Paul Oehme: There’ll be a through green there. There’ll be timed where there’ll be a designated,
dedicated green.
Councilman Laufenburger: Good. Okay, so it won’t only be a flashing yellow.
Paul Oehme: Right exactly. It will transition.
Councilman Laufenburger: …to the flashing yellow so that the southbound Powers traffic has the full
green.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Paul Oehme: Right because the queuing at this intersection is such we need that green arrow definitely in
there. Then it will transition to a yellow just before it transitions to the red arrow.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Paul Oehme: So moving on to Sunset Trail improvements. This intersection, again it’s going to be
widened. Left and right turn lanes will be improved at this intersection. There are currently some sight
distance issues that we’re planning to take care of. The intersection itself will be lowered approximately
7 feet from it’s current elevation and the Sunset Trail roadway will be realigned farther to the west at their
current location about 12 feet to try and get a 90 degree intersection at this location here too for better
visibility. Right now it’s a little bit askew. The intersection to the south, currently there’s just a driveway
there. Planning for future public roadway improvements there we are looking at making that a full public
roadway width section with you know two throughs and a right turn lane there as well so trying to plan
for that. The driveway currently located at, access the property at 1330, currently the driveway access is
on the Lyman Boulevard right now. The plan is to extend a driveway along Lyman Boulevard to Sunset
Trail and to eliminate that access point from Lyman Boulevard because of we’re lowering the profile of
Lyman. Widening it out a little bit. That driveway’s already steep the way it is. Any, we couldn’t have
another access point there at this time.
Councilman Laufenburger: That will be a private drive Mr. Oehme?
Paul Oehme: That will be a private drive.
Councilman Laufenburger: So the project will build the driveway but who will maintain it after once it’s
built?
Paul Oehme: The property owner would have to maintain it. And then there’ll be a retaining wall here as
well because the grades are such that to construct a driveway, make it a usable area, definitely we’ll have
to put a retaining wall at that location. So and again right turn lanes. Left turn lanes at all the touch down
points. Audubon Road improvement here. Profile is pretty much going to be staying the same at the
intersection itself. I think but basically just to the east here the roadway profile does come up about 5 feet
from it’s current location right by Bluff Creek Boulevard. The City has a lift station on the south side of
Lyman Boulevard. Right now that lift station has a parking lot and currently accesses onto Lyman
Boulevard. The plan is to construct again a stub road here for future, as a future public street stub if and
when the property to the west of this location, intersection is developed. So and then access to the lift
station would come off of that road as well so better sight lines are going to be made at this location as
well. There are some tree impacts associated with the project. However the plan is to mitigate and
replant trees along the corridor. Specifically at locations where tree impacts have taken place and then
also along the corridor, along the trail corridor as well so mainly on the north side of Lyman Boulevard
and then on Powers Boulevard as well. City utility improvements are also planned. Right now we are
planning to extend watermain from a stub watermain just east of Audubon to the development at Bluff
Creek Preserve. That was, that connection is part of the development plat and construction plans, we are
planning to make that extension at this time for future water connections to the development since the
development is not extended to that point in time right now. However the developer has agreed to pay for
that extension of watermain since it is part of his development contract. So in lieu of assessments
payment will come in as the development is built out in this location. There is planned a steel casing at
this location here for future sanitary sewer extensions to the north side of Lyman Boulevard specifically
to service future needs of Sunset Trail and the parcels to the north here. Right now all these properties are
on well and septic, and again we are planning to extend another casing, steel casing at this time right at
the intersection of Sunset Trail future watermain extension too once the development on the south side is
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
built out. The plan at Powers Boulevard is to extend watermain outside of the roadway section so
development on the south side of Lyman Boulevard, when it develops is going to have to dig up the
roadway pavement surface and disrupt traffic at this time so these improvements are looking forward.
Instead of putting in the improvements when development takes place or when they’re needed and
digging up the road or having to directional bore, it’s more cost effective to put these sleeves in at this
time. As I had mentioned, the roadway is going to be curb and gutter which would require stormwater
improvements to be made. Basically catch basins and storm sewer pipe. The existing pond at just east of
Audubon has been sized and was constructed with the first phase of Lyman to accommodate drainage on
this section of Lyman as well too so no pond expansions are planned at this time in conjunction with this
roadway improvement. This pond will take about three-quarters of Lyman Boulevard, all the drainage.
The rest of the drainage to the east will be drained and treated in existing ponds that were constructed
with the 212 project. Some wetlands will be impacted by this project, however Carver County and the
City are planning to mitigate through the normal wetland mitigation process to accommodate those
improvements. I’d like to just touch on the detour of the project, for the project. Since the profile of the
roadway is going to change dramatically we can’t allow traffic to be in the construction zone for this
project so a detour will be necessary so the main detour will be from Powers Boulevard down to Pioneer
Trail. From Pioneer Trail to Audubon and then back up to Lyman Boulevard. This will accommodate a
majority of the project. For this first stage of the reconstruction it’s probably estimated to take about 12
weeks to complete this work here. There is a small section, about 1,000 feet east of, or west of Audubon
that will also have to be reconstructed and closed down to traffic. That will take about a month to make
those improvements as well so, all told we, our plan is to start sometime in April or May of 2014 but the
goal is to have all the improvements completed before school starts in the fall of 2014. Carver County is
acquiring all the necessary right-of-way for the project. In all their 12 parcels that the project needs
wither permanent temporary easements, drainage utility easements, so Carver County is going through
that process. Has met with a majority of the property owners out there working through those issues as
well. Financing of the project. Back in 2009 Carver County applied for and was awarded a federal STP
fund grant for improvements to this corridor so a majority of the improvements will be paid through this
grant. About 80% of the construction cost so $4.8 million. A little over $4.8 million will be paid by
federal government. Carver County is planning to pay about $1.9 million for the project and Chanhassen
is responsible for about $1.94 million of the project and here is the funding sources associated with that.
Most of it is Municipal State Aid. The gas tax money that we do receive for, from the State. We will
have to advance our Municipal State Aid funds for this. This is something that the City has done several
times already and without interest so, and the funding for the utilities would be coming out of the
appropriate enterprise funds, and again the water, most of the water improvements will be reimbursed by
the developer once that section of water, once that section of Bluff Creek Preserve is developed and
changes are made. The funding is consistent with the master agreement that Carver County, Chaska and
Chanhassen had agreed to to fund the sections of Lyman and this is consistent with that. That agreement
and the agreement is in your packet. The City Attorney has reviewed that agreement as well. One thing
that is not included in the funding is undergrounding of the overhead power in this area. On past projects
the City has considered undergrounding these utilities. We have not received a cost estimate yet from
Xcel for that. For that work so once we receive that cost we’ll get an, bring that back to the council for
consideration of undergrounding as well. So in all the project right now, including all the indirect costs,
right-of-way, engineering and construction is a little over $8.6 million dollars. So proposed schedule, if
the project moves forward, Carver County’s looking at letting or bidding the project in early February.
That actually might move up to end of January depending upon right-of-way certificates and other
documentation at the State level and Federal level. And once we receive bids council would need to
concur with the bids. Make sure that we are still in budget and that the project should move forward, and
then construction would start mid-April or maybe after road restrictions, there is some work that can be
done without having to close down Lyman Boulevard completely but sometime in May it’s anticipated
that full closure, that stage, that Phase I that I showed you would have to start and construction would be
st
substantially completed by or before September 1. That is the plan, weather permitting so with that I do
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
have a proposed motion for you and I, if council has any questions at this time I’d be more than willing to
answer them. And Carver County representatives are here too if you have any questions for them.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Let’s start with questions for Mr. Oehme. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Paul can you go back on costs for a second? And maybe you don’t even need to
go back to that slide but I’m wondering, and I’m not going to hold you to this but can you provide some
kind of an idea of what the electrical undergrounding is going to be?
Paul Oehme: You know I’m guessing it’s going to be right around $150,000 to $200,000 for
undergrounding so it’s, I believe it’s a two phase system out there. It runs from Audubon Road in the
infrastructure on the west side and it services mainly I think Sunset Trail. It stops right there.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay, thank you. And then I have some questions regarding the email that we got,
and I think I got some of them answered but I do have some unanswered questions that I have. So one of
the questions that was on here, and I’m not sure what this whole procedure is but when Carver County
condemned the private property for the project the question was asked, why did the City not have a public
hearing on the condemnation. Is that typically what we do?
Paul Oehme: We’re not, I can try to answer that one. There’s no assessments associated with this project
so it doesn’t have to follow through the 429 process. We’re looking at approving the plans and specs and
moving the project forward but it didn’t require a public hearing.
Councilwoman Ernst: So that’s not something we would typically do? It’s not a formal process that we
would normally go through in this?
Roger Knutson: In the typical process you’re familiar with is, they call a 429 process where you have a
public improvement hearing and you have a special assessment hearing and that sort of thing. The
proposal here is not to assess the cost so you don’t have those hearings. So there is no hearing required.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: And it typically isn’t a public hearing.
Roger Knutson: No. There are exceptions to that rule but generally with the ones you’d be familiar with
there is not.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. And then for the access points, one of the questions was why did we
withhold the access point.
Paul Oehme: Well we are making improvements to all the intersections, left and right turn lanes at all the
major improvements. I think you’re referring to the right-in/right-out turn lane.
Councilwoman Ernst: Yes, yes.
Paul Oehme: That Mr. Dorsey is requesting.
Councilwoman Ernst: Yep.
Paul Oehme: Now that right-in/right-out does meet Carver County spacing requirements. However there
are wetlands adjacent to that section of roadway where the turn lane would go so this is not part of the
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Federal project more or less so Federal funds wouldn’t be allocated to making those improvements. The
right-in/right-out turn lane that he is requesting is more development driven than corridor, needed for the
corridor so typically under those type of scenarios the City has assessed benefitting property owners for
right turn lane improvements so basically again the, it’s not part of the, it’s not necessary for the project to
move forward. It’s more development driven than anything else and there are wetlands that are adjacent
to where the right-in/right-out has to go so there’s, in the background I had indicated that there’s some
statutory avoidance process and sequencing that has to take place for those improvements to move
forward. Again it’s a development issue basically so it behooves that property owner or the developer,
whoever if they want that right-in/right-out to go in there, they would have to take the process through
either the avoidance of the wetlands or the mitigation of the wetlands.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay so this wouldn’t be something that would normally be part of the project and
part of our funding. It would be something that the developer would be responsible for?
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Councilwoman Ernst: From what I’m hearing you say.
Paul Oehme: Correct, under this scenario. Under this case, correct.
Mayor Furlong: And because it’s development driven the other thing because the wetlands are there,
there’s a need to avoid those if possible.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: I think part of the challenge, lacking a site plan, lacking a development plan, we don’t
know whether or not the avoidance is available or not. So I think what I understood in reading the email
and also from the staff report, is that while it meets the distance required by the County for a location,
there are other issues that suggest that it might be premature at this point to put one in.
Paul Oehme: So I mean if, I think Carver County and the City are amendable to adding the right turn lane
in in the future if you know these criteria and the developer, property owner go through the required
sequencing for the wetlands and the funding avenue is worked out.
Councilman Laufenburger: And Mr. Oehme if, as you say if the County and the City is amenable to this
in the future, to create that right turn in, right turn out and the lanes associated with it, there would be a
cost associated with building that, correct?
Paul Oehme: Absolutely.
Councilman Laufenburger: And who would pay?
Councilwoman Ernst: To the City.
Councilman Laufenburger: Who would incur that cost?
Councilwoman Ernst: Right?
Paul Oehme: Well under our normal practice for these type of improvements it would be 100% to the
benefit of the developer so we would ask that the developer pay for them, so either through assessments,
up front you know payment or some other financing mechanism.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Councilman Laufenburger: So who’s going to pay for the intersection of Sunset Trail where clearly
there’s a Sunset Trail, you know that road goes to the north but to the south it’s more like a gravel
driveway. Who’s going to be paying for the entrance from the south into that property?
Paul Oehme: Sure. So and we did review that issue as well too, so that was part of the Federal
improvement application so that is 80%, that cost is 80% paid for by the Federal government. The City
and Carver County, we split about 50% of that cost.
Councilman Laufenburger: In other words no cost to the property owners for that?
Paul Oehme: Right, right. Well, yes. Right now.
Councilman Laufenburger: No cost right now to the property owners for that right-in/right-out at that
intersection.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Mayor Furlong: Well it’s a full intersection.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah excuse me, right turn lane but there’s a right turn lane and actually
headed north off the property there’s a left turn lane forward and then a right turn isn’t there?
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: What I’m wondering is, is there anyway that that intersection, that that
intersection could.
Mayor Furlong: Are you talking about Sunset Trail now?
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, excuse me. The Sunset Trail, is there anyway that rather than at that
intersection be built the way it is right now but in lieu of the south side, what would it have taken for that
south side entrance to Lyman have been to the west, to the northwest corner of the Dorsey property?
What would it have taken for that to occur?
Paul Oehme: To move it farther to the west?
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah to the, more to the site where Mr. Dorsey is suggesting this would be a
better place.
Paul Oehme: Yep, sure. So right now you always for intersection improvements you always try to line
up intersections on each leg of the roadway so we want to have a 90 degree intersection. Everybody’s
coming in at the same angle so we would have to shift Sunset Trail farther to the west here and impact
grades out in this area and trees and basically slide everything over a little bit more.
Councilman Laufenburger: I think I’m asking a hypothetical question. The question is, eliminate the
thing that goes south. Eliminate and instead put that same portion farther down Lyman. What would
have needed to take place at some point I’m assuming in the past in order for that to have taken place?
Because what you’re saying Mr. Oehme, what you’re saying is that yes, the County and the City would be
amenable to having an entrance to the property in the northwest area if wetland mitigation can occur and
if it’s consistent with development.
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Paul Oehme: Right.
Councilman Laufenburger: Right. And I’m suggesting, and maybe this is an inappropriate question but
hypothetically it appears that Mr. Dorsey is thinking that this entrance is not a good one to the property
whereas the entrance down on the northwest portion of this property is a better entrance. I think that’s
what he’s asking.
Kate Aanenson: Can I ask a question though too? We have an approved AUAR and these two entrance
points that we identified for, that have been approved through MnDOT and the County as the main
entrance points, those are the places that we’ve got the two connections in the underlying, the 2005
AUAR so those are the guiding documents that we used for the connection points that have been
approved. These locations.
Councilman Laufenburger: These? This one at Sunset Trail.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. The ones that are being proposed today. The other ones on either properties
may be development driven but they were not the approved T intersections approximate that we looked at
under the guidance of the AUAR because we know this connection, how that will serve the property. We
look at that underlying transportation and we know on the Degler piece that’s going to loop back all the
way back over to Audubon and those are the connections that were made under that document.
Mayor Furlong: And I guess the, if Mr. Laufenburger if the hypothetical you’re asking is, eliminate this
access and put one in in the northwest corner. I didn’t get the sense that he wanted this one eliminated
and that one instead. My sense was he wanted both of them. Is that your’s?
Paul Oehme: That’s my sense too meeting with him.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Gerhardt.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah he’s been to all our meetings and he understands that a secondary access is needed
to a site and that’s where he’s asking for the right-in/right-out is a secondary access to his site. It’s still
you know premature because you don’t have a development in front of you. The extension of Bluff
Creek Boulevard going to the east, could that be a secondary access? You know having the Degler
development accessing through the Dorsey property is another one that would provide the Degler
development for a secondary access. You know that’s what we planned for so that’s kind of where he’s
coming from. He definitely doesn’t want to give up this intersection and.
Councilman Laufenburger: Well then I’m misreading his email because I’m quoting from his email. Our
belief is the location for a curb cut into our property.
Todd Gerhardt: That’s the right-in/right-out.
Councilman Laufenburger: Should be where we have requested it.
Todd Gerhardt: Paul, why don’t you bring up the drawing and show where he wants the right-in/right-out.
Paul Oehme: I don’t know if I have that. It’s farther to the. I don’t think I have that area.
Councilman Laufenburger: I don’t need to occupy the council’s time with this. It’s just, it seems to me
that, I understand that the development drives this and I understand that this, what you’re showing here is
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
the potential access on the northwest corner. I understand why that’s not included now. Just I’m trying to
picture what would it, what would the property owner, Mr. Dorsey need to have done in order to have that
one in place instead of this one. I think I must have misread his email so, he’s asking, he’s looking for
two.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, I think he’s looking for two.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, okay.
Councilwoman Ernst: Mr. Mayor may I continue on with my questions?
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, just a minute.
Councilman McDonald: …right-in/right-out because there are no detailed plans so that’s why it’s not
there. I can accept that. What Mr. Laufenburger is bringing up, why would you give up that one because
now you lose access to the house that’s sitting there and also we went and again carved out that
homestead as a separate piece of property so you still need an access to that property and the right-
in/right-out was outside of that property line when we went and granted him the separation of that lot so,
if I’m correct. I mean without a detailed plan for the right-in/right-out it’s premature to even place at this
point.
Paul Oehme: I would agree with that statement.
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
Paul Oehme: So this development or this property needs a full access point so the only location for a full
access is at Sunset Trail so that’s where the first primary access has to be.
Councilman McDonald: Right. We’re talking about two pieces of property. It’s the one he carved out,
which we’ve given an access to off of Lyman and then it’s the potential future access for the other
property that he holds down there and where that’s going to be is going to be determined by detailed plans
as they come in.
Councilman Laufenburger: So I get it. Clearly the access point which is planned, in place, funded,
approved is at Sunset Trail and you are saying that if he would like to have an access point in the
northwest corner in the future, you’re open to that along with, you and the County would be open to
considering that when it’s consistent with development and also mitigation of wetland, if there’s any
impact.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, we have to go through the sequencing of the process.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yep, yep. Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: And another thing that the council should know is that the right-in/right-out would be
cheaper to be built if it was with the project. Waiting down the line you have some grade issues that get
established and so some slope issues from the completion of the road versus planning for the right-
in/right-out. Mr. Dorsey would want you to hear that.
Councilman McDonald: Well but the thing is too, we may not want an access point onto Lyman. We’re
only required to make sure he has access to his property. That could be achieved through some other
method at some future point so that’s why it’s premature at this point to look at any access beyond the
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
homestead access so I think I understand what the issues are. That’s why it’s not there and it doesn’t need
to be there at this point because we don’t have any plans for that property.
Paul Oehme: If he brings in a development and that’s the only access point, I mean we’ll have to take a
look at it.
Councilman McDonald: Right, then we’ll have to deal with it because we’ve said it would be acceptable
under certain conditions so it is reserved. It’s just there’s no guarantee we’ll do it.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, Councilwoman Ernst other questions?
Councilwoman Ernst: Yes, I’ll continue on with my questions. So the other comment that he made is a
long term drainage plan is missing on the south side of the road. I think you may have already addressed
but just to be clear.
Paul Oehme: South side of the road.
Mayor Furlong: This is point number 2 of Mr. Dorsey’s email?
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah.
Paul Oehme: Okay. I think what he’s referring to there is, there currently is, there is a culvert under
Lyman Boulevard and the County is planning to extend that culvert at it’s current location, picking up the
same drainage that currently is there today and having the water flow down and drain down to Bluff
Creek Boulevard so I think his concern is, you know right now there’s a ditch section right there. There is
some wetlands that are out there right now. In order to urbanize it I think is his desire to put a pipe in
there.
Councilwoman Ernst: Yep.
Paul Oehme: Those wetlands would have to be mitigated to be additional stormwater improvements that
would have to be necessary as well. We’re a little bit reluctant to go there right now because of the
mitigation issue and the wetland impacts that are associated with that. Again we don’t have a
development plan for this area too so it’s hard to figure out what the drainage pattern or what the drainage
improvements should be too. What size pipe we should use out here or what not so I think urbanizing it
to the level of what Mr. Dorsey has requested is maybe a little bit premature at this time.
Councilwoman Ernst: Until you see a plan.
Paul Oehme: Until we see a plan.
Councilwoman Ernst: And then the other thing, and this probably pertains to the same comment you just
made. The elimination of the drainage culvert under Lyman Boulevard.
Paul Oehme: Yep. So this is the culvert that he’s referring to right here. So it’s basically just west of
Sunset Trail. That culvert, this green line right here, that represents where the drainage area is. That
basically goes into that culvert. This driveway here is kind of a high point and kind of channelizes all the
water down to this culvert right here so it’s about 7, a little over 7 acres of drainage that ends up in this
culvert. Pre-reconstruction of what’s out there today, back in ’91 there was an existing culver that was
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
out there as well so basically back in 1980-81 Carver County replaced the 15 inch culvert that’s shown
here with an 18 inch culvert that’s currently out there today. Now the plan is to increase that culvert from
18 inch to a 24 inch. Basically keeping it at the same location. He’s again, this culvert potentially feeds
some of that wetland on the south side of Lyman Boulevard. The City and Carver County’s a little
reluctant right now to eliminate 7 1/2 acres going to that, and knowing that potential eliminating that
drainage would impact those wetlands and the City and the County would be responsible for mitigating
for those wetlands. I think Mr. Dorsey’s request is to eliminate that culvert and run it down the north side
of Lyman Boulevard.
Councilwoman Ernst: Right.
Paul Oehme: Basically creating a ditch section there. That would create additional impacts to the
existing property owners. Again there’d be more tree loss. Ditch section. More right-of-way. Culvert
underneath these driveways so I think that’s the reason why the Carver County has elected to have the
culvert remain in place today so, it will be less impacts and it will be cheaper for us to leave that as it is
today. Again knowing that we have wetland potentially impacts if that culvert’s removed.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. And then the one last question I have is regarding the Preserve
development and bringing in the utilities.
Paul Oehme: Yeah I addressed that. The cost for those improvements, if I can bring that section up
again. We did work with the Preserve developer.
Councilwoman Ernst: And you did address all that.
Paul Oehme: Yep, they’re going to be paying for the extension of that watermain.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions? Councilwoman Ernst?
Councilwoman Ernst: Nope, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: No? Other questions for staff? Okay. Thank you. Mr. Oehme with regard to the
undergrounding of the electrical, you said we’re going to wait to see what the estimate comes back. You
gave us your estimate. Where’s the source of funding for that if that’s something we want to go forward
with?
Paul Oehme: That’s, and in past projects we’ve used pavement management funding source for that
project. Those projects. I don’t think State Aid funds would be appropriate for the undergrounding. I
don’t think that’d be allowed either so I think our only avenue is some other street improvement funding
source.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. And that will be part of the information that we receive back.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: At that time.
Todd Gerhardt: Isn’t the agreement with Carver County that’s 50/50?
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Which 50 is our’s?
Todd Gerhardt: The smallest.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Any other thoughts or comments? I’ll entertain any comments from
Carver County. On which side of the 50 you want.
Lyndon Robjent: The smallest side.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah well we’ve got two people with the smallest.
Lyndon Robjent: Mr. Mayor, members of the council.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
Lyndon Robjent: Lyndon Robjent, County Engineer. Thanks Paul. I’m just here to say thank you that
you’re considering this item and that we can move forward. We’ve been, as you know designing this for
quite a long time and we’re ready to go to construction and get this thing built next year so hopefully we
can move forward and we appreciate all the support the City’s given us. We have worked extensively I
would say with a few property owners and they have made some great suggestions, specifically Mr.
Dorsey has been actually a pretty good resource. I’ve met with him for many, many, many hours and he
did come up with some, him and Jeff Fox some good ideas to improve the design and we took those into
consideration. Paul mentioned lowering the grade. We did that. We thought that was a good idea.
We’ve worked very hard on this and I think we have a good compromise where we’re at.
Mayor Furlong: Great, thank you. Questions? I have just, if you’ve got just a minute. First of all I want
to thank you and the County for taking the lead on seeking the Federal funds for this section. It really
made it possible from a financial standpoint to move forward with this section so thank you for doing that
and for your work there on the TAB and working with the TAB in doing that. With regard to the section
of Lyman east of Powers, which I was asking a little bit about the width and stuff, is this, when this
becomes a 4 lane road and as this part of the city grows, are we going to continue to monitor traffic along
that section of the road and evaluate, and I assume if appropriate look at restriping that section as well?
We’ve got development occurring over at 101 with the river crossing and 101 and work there. I can just
see this area and the traffic increasing so I think making sure we have the appropriate roads to do that, and
again thank you for your work on 101 that you’ve done and such but is that something that you continue
to monitor I assume and evaluate traffic and?
Lyndon Robjent: Yes. Mr. Mayor I think our current traffic model does not show a need for a 4 lane.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Lyndon Robjent: East of Powers.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Lyndon Robjent: Obviously you know with the Met Council and their new numbers, obviously there’s
some questions on those still.
Mayor Furlong: Right.
Lyndon Robjent: Growth for us too and every, a lot of the cities in Carver County.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Right.
Lyndon Robjent: We do have a county wide traffic model that looks at every roadway.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Lyndon Robjent: We update that periodically. Actually we’re updating it this month.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Lyndon Robjent: So, but as of now there is no need to expand that road in the next 20 years. However, if
something changes we will address that.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah…counts change.
Lyndon Robjent: I’m not sure, I’m not sure if the bridge is wide enough to handle a 4 lane road. We’d
have to look into that at the time of the highway.
Councilman Laufenburger: The bridge on Lyman over 212 you mean?
Lyndon Robjent: Right.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, very good. Thank you. Appreciate your efforts and help on this.
Lyndon Robjent: Yes, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions? If not, let’s bring it to council for your comments. Thoughts and
comments. I think this is a great project. Again thank you to the County for their lead and for seeking the
funding that makes this possible to move forward from a financial standpoint and really appreciate it. I
know we have the need from a traffic standpoint too. There was an accident at Powers and Lyman just
recently and comments that I’ve received from residents indicate that that intersection needs
improvements so it’s nice that we have something in place as soon as we do. And the response time?
Yeah. And then I think too with the, with the, as I said with the traffic and when development occurs, we
have the flexibility to support the development in the plans there so I do want to comment too. The
comment that was made about Mr. Dorsey. I give him credit for being thorough and looking forward and
not as many people can look forward and see what opportunities might exist or what might be, might
occur going forward as he does and he deserves credit for that and looking at options. Looking at what
can be rather than just what is and so I think.
Councilwoman Ernst: And persistent as well.
Mayor Furlong: Well he is persistent but I think he thinks with vision.
Councilwoman Ernst: Exactly.
Mayor Furlong: And looks at what’s there today and how can we get to where we want to be and what
can it take and when is the right time to do it so while we may not agree with him on this it doesn’t sound
like because of the timing, it’s not that we don’t agree eventually as well. I do want to, I think there are
some residents that might want to provide public comment so before we get too far, if there is someone
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that would like to provide public comment, be happy to listen to that now and I apologize for jumping
ahead.
Jeff Fox: Good evening Mayor and council.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
Jeff Fox: Council members. My name is Jeff Fox representing the Fox Family at the south side of
Lyman, east of, west of Powers. I want to compliment Lyndon and the work he’s done to help get this
project to move forward with the assistance of the City itself. There’s been a lot of improvements made
by lowering the road and raising the grade at the lower end and with the turn lanes and the divider, they’re
all positive signs for the expansion of this road. What our concern was, is why it’s been addressed with
this right-in/right-out. The property’s been guided for regional retail and the alternative is office and
there was a, I don’t know I can say communication gap between the City and ourselves but the City went
ahead and had a preliminary done by Culver and Associates and with some different layouts. Just
preliminary draft layouts and they showed even within that retail, with the plan, I don’t know what the
model was. If it was 50/50 or what it was but they showed the need for a second access point off of
Lyman Boulevard. Preferably a full interchange. A full second interchange access point off of Lyman.
That was with a heavy amount of retail. We don’t know what’s going to happen. We don’t know if that’s
going to happen but I did hear tonight that was positive to hear from Paul say, yeah provided that the
development does require it, we can get that access in there if going through the proper procedures as far
as mitigating, if that is classified as wetlands. I don’t think it’s gone in front of the TEP panel yet. I think
there’s comments made that it still got to go in front of the TEP panel because it says in the thing it has
been but it hasn’t. I think that still has to be done. So I’d like to just go on record and make sure we
understand that we believe with the guiding that’s there, that it does need a second access and it was
addressed to by the County accepting it. Seeing the need for that could be there and we’ve got that from
the City to this point and I think if you can get that Paul in writing with the subject that who pays for it is
the only concern that was there so I just wanted to make that matter of public record.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you Mr. Fox. Others?
Jeff Franz: Council members.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
Jeff Franz: My name is Jeff Franz. I’m the, if you throw up the map there, I’m the guy on the corner of
Sunset Trail and Lyman.
Mayor Furlong: Sure, okay. Which corner?
Paul Oehme: I’ll bring it up for you.
Jeff Franz: Northwest corner.
Mayor Furlong: Northwest, thank you.
Jeff Franz: Mr. Oehme, hi. I started this project with him or he started with me on it. From my
perspective I’d just as soon they leave it the way it is but that’s okay because expansion and growth and
everything else is good. For me the personal aggravation is dealing with the people that you’ve got that
are taking our property. And I’ve been, I haven’t been able to, and now that maybe somebody from
Carver County’s here they can tell me but I don’t know who’s responsible for hiring them but when they
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
come in and offer like say 20 to 30 cents on the dollar for what that land is worth and then they pick
comparable properties that are west of our’s that are undeveloped. No street lights. Unpaved roads. I
don’t think it’s a comparable thing and between Powers and the bottom of the hill. Where the two
driveways are…property is one of them. There’s 7 property owners there and 6 of us got together. Two
of them have settled at over twice what the original offer was at the very least and we’ve all had to hire
attorneys so if you’ve got a negotiation, you know I’m not too good. I can walk away if I don’t like the
price. If I want to buy something or sell something, if I don’t agree I can walk away. I don’t have that
option here. I have to accept it so I can either accept 20 cents or 30 cents on the dollar of what that’s
worth and the loss of future value or I can hire an attorney and hire an appraiser and the State says you
have to give me $1,500 for an appraiser. Well it’s going to cost $4,000 to get an appraisal that I can take
all the way to a trial with all the proper documentation and everything that’s going to support a true
valuation of my property. So when I’m all done I get a fair value of it, plus I get to pay the attorney and
then the appraiser so, you know eminent domain and all that stuff is good and progress is good and I’m all
for that. I like the expansion. When I first saw that spot 20 years ago when I was making a sales call on
FSI, that was a gravel road and now I wondered where the heck am I? And now I’m living on that corner,
okay so that’s all well and good but I just think you know that it reflects pretty poorly on your folks when
you have people hired that represent you to deal with people like me and the other 6 people that live on
that road, that they come in and state things, I won’t say dishonestly but I’ll say select their words very
carefully to give you a certain impression. When somebody says well we can’t replace your mailbox
because well it wouldn’t be code and I say well I paid to have a brick one. Why don’t you pay me to do
that and he said, well we’ve never run into that before, and he’s been doing it for 30 years. I really don’t
believe him. You know they’re going to pay me $100 for a tree that’s 20 feet tall and it’s…years old.
Don’t pay me for a new tree. Give me a new tree that’s 25 feet tall. Well we don’t do that. So just, it’s a
frustration with the process that leads to you know a lack of trust in the whole process.
Mayor Furlong: Well and who would like to respond in terms of the process for the right-of-way
acquisition?
Lyndon Robjent: Yes, well I think we know the process on, the City knows the process for right-of-way
acquisition. We’re required to get a fair market appraisal. We did that. I think we hired Patchin Messner
on this one, which have done multiple appraisals in the county. And then because it’s actually a Federally
funded project we get a review appraisal. You can’t just have one. You have to have another
independent appraiser appraise that. Then we start negotiation obviously a written offer is made to the
landowner. Now I’ve heard this from other folks that there might have been a communication gap
between our consultant and some of the residents. I’m hoping that we’ve started to fix that because we
were in, it’s not your fault. It’s my fault…point with our right-of-way agent at Carver County so we hired
some help for that and now we have a full time right-of-way agent who’s kind of taken over control of the
project and…
Due to technical difficulties a portion of the audio recording was lost at this point in the discussion.
Lyndon Robjent: …what we do, we try to negotiate a settlement. We don’t like to use eminent domain
so I’ll work with you to make sure that, and I’m not sure if we’ve received your appraisal. That he was
correct. We pay for that so the landowner can get their own appraisal that the County pays for and we
can use that to help with the negotiations so I’m not sure where the gap is on this one but we’ll find out.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, and it sounds like there are other residents along the corridor too that have similar
concerns so.
Jeff Franz: There are 4 of us that are, basically haven’t settled. Two that settled when the prices was
more than doubled.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: So should they be talking to you Lyndon or?
Lyndon Robjent: Sure.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Or to whoever.
Jeff Franz: Now we’ve engaged an attorney so somehow he needs to get compensated. Then there’s an
appraiser that needs to be compensated. And you know basically we weren’t going to offer any of that
until, before the commission here.
Mayor Furlong: And I think that’s an issue beyond the City Council here. So I don’t think we have to get
into the details tonight. I would encourage you, if your attorney can speak to Mr. Robjent or contact the
county attorney or whoever.
Jeff Franz: If that’s a resolution, that would be wonderful.
Mayor Furlong: Well, and I would say start with Lyndon and then see where it has to go.
Jeff Franz: Okay, thank you for your time.
Mayor Furlong: Sure. Thank you. Good evening.
Asim Syeda: Good evening Mayor and City Council. My name is Asim Syeda. I’m the owner of
property 1561 Lyman Boulevard. So it’s next to Jeff’s property.
Mayor Furlong: See if we can get a picture here.
Asim Syeda: Yep, that’s my property there.
Councilman Laufenburger: Your’s is the property to which all the water migrates, is that right?
Asim Syeda: From that property I believe that migrates down.
Councilman Laufenburger: To your southwest corner.
Asim Syeda: To the southwest, yes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Asim Syeda: So first of all I do echo what Jeff have already said. This has been a very disappointing
process so far. I have spend a lot of time trying to talk to people. Trying to understand the system. I’m
not from this country originally and I thought things would be done better here but so far my experience
has been very, very bad through this whole process. But since Jeff already talked about it I won’t bring
that issue about the compensation but my questions and concerns are, for my property there is I believe
there is no right lane. Is that right? There’s no proposed right lane to get into my property.
Paul Oehme: There’s no right turn lane.
Asim Syeda: There’s no right turn lane, yes.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Asim Syeda: So could you tell me what the speed on the road?
Paul Oehme: I think it’s designed for 55 miles an hour.
Asim Syeda: 55 miles an hour. So you expecting me to make a right turn at a 55 miles per hour speed?
If I slow down then the whole traffic behind me has to slow down. So my first question is regarding the
safety. This whole project is for the safety of the people, or for the public safety. Where is the safety of
the homeowners that are living on that corridor for development? What consideration has been made to
make sure the residents are safe along that corridor? So I have more questions regarding safety related.
One is on the opposite side for the Dorsey, we had that discussion, Lyndon had discussion about the
owner on the south side of the Lyman Boulevard. That owner is getting right lane for their property.
Why not my property? And it’s not only just me. There’s another neighbor to my property who enters
from the same lane.
Paul Oehme: So there’s no right turn, right-in/right-out there at the property to the south proposed at this
time so that’s we’re under discussion. To your property, you know I think maybe since this is a Carver
County road, maybe they should address that situation too but typically you know for driveway access
points, I think it’s what, the speed limit is 45 miles an hour out there right now. It’s, the design didn’t
warrant I think a turn lane at that location. There are other access points in the area similar to this that
seem to function fine but I think you know maybe Mr. Robjent can fully address the right turn request
better.
Lyndon Robjent: Mr. Mayor, members of the council. Typically to answer the question about the right
turn, we don’t build right turn lanes for driveways. There’s just not enough, there’s not a warrant to do
that. Not enough turning movements a day to warrant a right turn lane. It’s simply too expensive. One
thing that’s different about the before and after is, the traffic will only be going one direction so coming in
or out of the driveway you’re dealing with looking one way only. You’re not worried about traffic in
both directions because the median will be there so, and there’ll be an extra lane so if you’re making a
right into your driveway, hoping people are paying attention. If they are in your lane, they have another
lane to move into to get around you but bar in my answer is we can’t afford, we just simply can’t afford to
build a right turn lane for every driveway on a roadway. It’s just not cost effective.
Mayor Furlong: Is there, are there two drive lanes at that point in the road?
Lyndon Robjent: Yeah. The whole corridor is two.
Mayor Furlong: Each way.
Lyndon Robjent: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: So four. And is there any area for shoulder or anything to the curb or is the curb right
near there?
Lyndon Robjent: I believe, you have 14 foot lanes.
Paul Oehme: I think it’s 14 foot lanes.
Lyndon Robjent: Minimal.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: So not much.
Lyndon Robjent: No, there’s probably between the car and the edge of the roadway to the gutter, or to the
edge of curb is probably 2 to 3 feet.
Due to technical difficulties a portion of the audio recording was lost at this point in the discussion.
Paul Oehme: …with arterial collector roadways so in the future we did look at these lots, you know
since they’re not sewered and watered at this time that maybe they could connect onto Sunset Trail in the
future for future access too and I know I talked to the property owner about that previously and I know
that he’s been talking to the planning about that as well too but that’s.
Mayor Furlong: Can they get over there?
Paul Oehme: Well they’d have to work out you know agreements with some of the property owners over
on Sunset Trail but even I think when sewer and water comes in there, into this area I think that’s the time
because there’s going to have to be some sort of cross access agreements for the utilities. I think access
definitely has to be part of that equation.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Robjent. There will be, I noticed that there are two
driveways that enter on Lyman. Mr. Syeda and then somebody immediately to your west. Okay, so I’m
assuming that there will be a cut out there though for both driveways, correct?
Lyndon Robjent: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah and if the property is developed down the line, as a part of that development, just
like Mr. Dorsey’s we would probably require a right turn lane to be installed at that time, but you know
until such time the policy and warrants don’t show for a right turn lane.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Syeda, did you have other comments?
Asim Syeda: Yeah. The point that you made earlier about having access from Sunset. I would love to
have that but I did come to the City with some talks about that and I was told to bring some plans for the
whole neighborhood development and as an individual owner I cannot really spend money to come up
with those plans and things like that so certainly I’m expecting the City to look into that matter further
and provide, I’m certainly willing to work with the neighbors what is needed but City needs to take some
initiative. Rather than me asking to take initiative about coming up with those plans in order to get the
access from Sunset Lane. Regarding the safety again, there’s going to be more traffic and I believe
there’s a whole accommodation for this so I’m very concerned again coming to my property. There’s
going to be more traffic and then I have to make turn at that speed so I just want to make a comment
there. And I have been talking to, about this, the negotiations that we are going through. About the safety
of my kids. My kids could be running around the property and ask them to do something so there are
some way to make sure there’s some safety behind. Either walls or trees or gate or something and so far I
was told that is something they won’t consider so I’m not really sure in situations like this to whom
should I approach because talking to the negotiator who gave us initial proposal, they’re not really
listening anything. So I just want to know who I should approach to address these concerns and have
some resolution for my situation.
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Mayor Furlong: Are you talking about the right-of-way issue and the easements?
Asim Syeda: I’m talking about.
Mayor Furlong: The eminent domain or about some fence or security for your children.
Asim Syeda: I’m talking about the whole deal of my issue because when they are developing they should
consider the safety of the people living or safety of the neighborhood or safety of the citizens there. Who
should I talk to about those issues or concerns that I have with development?
Mayor Furlong: Well I think in terms, I mean it would be my sense, and I don’t think we generally
provide gates or fencing along property lines when roads are developed. That would certainly be a
property owner’s prerogative to do that if they so choose to do so.
Asim Syeda: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: But in terms of the providing a gate or fence or something like that for this situation is
typically not included in a road project, to my understanding.
Paul Oehme: We are planning to plant some trees along the trail so there is some landscaping associated
with the project in front of your property there along Lyman so.
Asim Syeda: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Anyone else would like to provide public comment? Thank you for
that. Appreciate that. Any follow up comments Mr. Oehme or anything? Any follow up questions for
staff on this? No? Okay. Thoughts or comments on the project. We’ve been asked to provide an
approval of plans and specifications and joint powers agreement. Any thoughts or comments on the
project?
Councilman Laufenburger: I just have a question Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger. Sure.
Councilman Laufenburger: And maybe this is a question to the process. Does the action that we take
tonight, is this the final action that we take as a council prior to beginning of construction next spring?
Mayor Furlong: Could you put up the schedule one more time?
Paul Oehme: Sure. So we had one concurrence of the bids. Basically approving the bids before actual
construction starts and entering into contract with.
Councilman Laufenburger: But the action we take at that time isn’t really to say no, we don’t like this
project. We’re not going to do it.
Paul Oehme: Right, yep.
Councilman Laufenburger: What we’re doing tonight is we’re saying we agree that the project the way
it’s designed with the County taking the lead, we’re in. That’s what we’re saying tonight.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: And so one would be the time if we have concerns or questions on the design and the
scope of the project or any of the aspects that have been raised by residents or others, to bring those up
and address those tonight.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. That clarifies that. Thank you Mr. Oehme.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. So with that any other comments on the project scope or anything else
we’ve heard this evening? If not, entertain a motion.
Councilwoman Ernst: I’ll make a motion Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: I make a motion the City Council approve plans and specifications, joint powers
agreement and resolution for improvements to Lyman Boulevard, CSAH 18 from Audubon Road to
Powers Boulevard.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilman McDonald: I’ll second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none we’ll
proceed with the vote.
Resolution #2013-60: Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the
Chanhassen City Council approves plans and specifications, Joint Powers Agreement and
Resolution for Improvements to Lyman Boulevard (CSAH 18) from Audubon Road to Powers
Boulevard. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you everybody. Appreciate it and look forward to seeing this project move
forward this coming year.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS:
Mayor Furlong: I’ll start by wishing everyone a happy Thanksgiving. Obviously the residents and
businesses and everyone here with the City as well. Hope everybody has a great Thanksgiving weekend
and gets a chance to spend it with family and friends and take time to be thankful for all our blessings.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
Todd Gerhardt: Couple of things. 101 south of Lyman down to Pioneer is now open and gives you a
good feeling to have that open as we get into winter construction and just a nice, quality project. You can
see how Bandimere Park is going to expand and see how the trail system is going to work and so nice job
by the contractor and Paul and his staff and BRW, or Kimley-Horn. Aged myself there didn’t I? So nice
project and you know it’s going to be short lived before we close it up again and start construction in the
spring but nice to have it open.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Mayor Furlong: Just a quick question. How long do we expect the closure in the spring to occur? Is it
just the 2 weeks when you’re working on the intersection?
Paul Oehme: Right. So there’s actually having two closures. One south of Pioneer Trail and the
connection into existing 101 so that grade has to be shaved back a little bit and the intersection’s actually.
Mayor Furlong: South of Pioneer Trail?
Paul Oehme: South of Pioneer Trail and the intersection actually has to be raised up about 3 feet from it’s
current elevation so that’s one closure, about 20 days. And then the section north of there, the existing
101 that we’re reconstructing, we figure that’s going to be at least another 20 days at least to finish up the
project.
th
Mayor Furlong: Between 96 and Pioneer?
th
Paul Oehme: 96 and Pioneer, right. So another.
Mayor Furlong: And those are not happening at the same time? Those would be two different closures.
Paul Oehme: That would have to be two separate closures so we’re going to actually have 3 projects
going on next year. The river crossing project. That’s going to start up in June. Okay, and then the
Lyman project as well too. That’s why we want to try to get the 101 finished up as quickly as we can.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme, the road immediately north of the Pioneer Trail intersection, the
101, will that also need to be raised along with the intersection?
Paul Oehme: Yep, absolutely.
Councilman Laufenburger: Because it looks like it has been raised a little bit already or has it not?
Paul Oehme: Where the existing road alignment is?
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah.
Paul Oehme: That’s going to have to be raised up substantially so if you look to the south there where the
trail embankment is, that’s basically where the new roadway is proposed.
th
Councilman Laufenburger: So the dip, obviously the dip between Pioneer Trail and 96, that’s also going
to be.
Paul Oehme: That goes away. That also gets flatten out.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. I was on the road after it opened. It’s wonderful. It is absolutely
wonderful. It will be fun to have some trees. Will there be some tree planting on the west side?
Paul Oehme: Absolutely. Substantial tree planting.
Councilman Laufenburger: …the trail. The Bandimere access in there. It really is nice. It’s good to
have a park like that south of Highway 5.
Mayor Furlong: If you only lived there.
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
Paul Oehme: We did receive some positive feedback from the property owners along the corridor too.
Some of the skeptics too so now that they see what it looks like they really are supportive of what has
been done so far.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, good. Thank you. Mr. Gerhardt.
Todd Gerhardt: Another item that occurred today is that I got notice that the PUC is going to be having
their hearing tomorrow on the Westgate transmission line, and the PUC staff has recommended contrary
to Xcel’s burying of the new transmission line along Highway 5, to go above ground so I will be
attending that meeting tomorrow with Public Works Director from Eden Prairie so. The way I understand
it they will not be taking public comment unless there’s an error in staff’s recommendation so been kind
of a difficult process. They keep changing their minds and be interesting to hear what the board or
commission has to say tomorrow about that. There is some hope that staff also recommended that that
cost estimate be looked at. That was one of the issues they had with Xcel, not having detailed costs for
the burying of that line so.
Councilwoman Ernst: Todd, what is the reasoning behind that? Why are they trying to, why do they
want to, why do they want to go above versus underground?
Todd Gerhardt: The big rule for the PUC is not to push burden onto the greater use throughout the
district so if there’s not a significant reason to bury the line, other users throughout the region shouldn’t
bear that cost for what we would call aesthetic. What MnDOT would call an impairment along the line or
potential hazard in their right-of-way. So that, there needs to be additional discussions with MnDOT on
that also is what staff recommended but right now they’re recommending it go above ground. And in
their budget they did allocate half the cost of burying half the line between the substation. The Westgate
substation in Eden Prairie to pole structure 57 which sits at the base of the high school property line.
South of the railroad viaduct so as I learn more about it tomorrow I’ll keep you updated.
Mayor Furlong: Well thank you for all your work on that so far. Certainly would hope that it turns
around and comes out the way we want it to but appreciate all your efforts you put into that.
Todd Gerhardt: I know how a tennis ball feels now.
Councilwoman Ernst: We thought that was a done deal there for a while, didn’t we with Xcel?
Todd Gerhardt: You know there’s a lot of regulations that go along with transmission lines and so this
will be my first PUC meeting and they have quite an agenda so, I think we’re on the docket around 11:30
so. That’s all I have.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Any questions for Mr. Gerhardt or his staff?
CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION.
None.
Mayor Furlong: Given the hour, we had one item left on our work session tonight which was to discuss
the community survey. Checking with Mr. Gerhardt, next week at 7:00 we will have the Truth in
Taxation hearing here in the council chambers. The only work session item we had scheduled for, well
we had no items for work session. The only thing we did have scheduled was our executive session. The
council only to discuss Mr. Gerhardt’s performance review. What I’d like to do is have that executive
session begin at 5:30 at our normal work session time. We’ll then come in here. Complete out that
discussion. Come in here for our Truth in Taxation hearing at 7:00 and then finish our work session item
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Chanhassen City Council – November 25, 2013
left over from tonight, the community survey after our Truth in Taxation hearing. The idea there is only
the 5 of us, plus Mr. Gerhardt at the beginning to get us set up and then he leaves. Need to be here before
7:00 but then from 7:00 until we’re done with the Truth in Taxation and the discussion in the work
session item, staff and certainly the newspaper and anybody else, the public are welcome to be here so if
that is agreeable to everybody, I’d like to go ahead and make those changes. Did you have a question or
clarification?
Councilman Laufenburger: After that I wanted to refer back to council because there’s a presentation I
want to make comments so when you’re ready.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So unless there’s any clarification, we just make sure those notices get out
publicly so people know but I want to mention tonight on camera as well what our change in schedule is
there. Mr. Laufenburger, comment.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yes. Earlier, I guess it was last week. My oh my, last week I attended a
Southwest Chamber event which is, turned out to be really a wonderful event every year and that is each
of the 4 mayors representing the cities in the southwest chamber, Victoria, Carver, Chaska and
Chanhassen, each of the mayors provided an update and what I found to be just, aside from the fact that
our own Mayor Furlong always performs at an exemplary way.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Councilman Laufenburger: Each of the four cities have significant development that is going on and that
just, I think that bodes very, very well for this region and you know I like to think that Chanhassen is a
leader in that development but the truth is, each of the four cities have significant development for their
particular realm and I think that you know it’s like the rising tide is raising all ships in the southwest
corridor so Mr. Mayor, thank you for representing Chanhassen well.
Mayor Furlong: You’re welcome, thank you.
Councilman Laufenburger: And for not embarrassing the Red Birds.
Mayor Furlong: I think I did mention the Red Birds.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yes you did. I was really appreciative of that. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anything else to come before the council this evening. If not is there a
motion to adjourn.
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman McDonald seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in
favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. The City Council meeting was
adjourned at 10:20 p.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
61